From myranda.morrisv0u at gmail.com Wed Jan 1 01:29:48 2003 From: myranda.morrisv0u at gmail.com (Vicky Nicholas) Date: Wen, 1 Jan 2003 02:29:48 -0700 Subject: Logos, letterheads, business cards, envelops (ID9459323) Message-ID: <200603280737.k2S7axoo000958@proton.jfet.org> jgv Our art team creates a custom logo for you, based on your needs. Years of experience have taught us how to create a logo that makes a statement that is unique to you. In a professional manner we learn about your image and how you would like the world to perceive you and your company. With this information we then create a logo that is not only unique but reflects the purpose of you and your company. For value and a logo that reflects your image, take a few minutes and visit Logo Maker! http://consequent.net.logotip-mark.com Sincerely, Logo Design Team dervish biceps byzantine From eugen at leitl.org Wed Jan 1 00:04:07 2003 From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl) Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 09:04:07 +0100 (CET) Subject: RUBBISH! Message-ID: Happy new year, everybody. Sousveillance/reverse panopticon. http://www.wweek.com/flatfiles/News3485.lasso RUBBISH! Portland's top brass said it was OK to swipe your garbage--so we grabbed theirs. by CHRIS LYDGATE AND NICK BUDNICK clydgate at wweek.com nbudnick at wweek.com Web-only content: Vera Katz's press release Stories that have appeared in other media KATU The Oregonian It's past midnight. Over the whump of the wipers and the screech of the fan belt, we lurch through the side streets of Southeast Portland in a battered white van, double-checking our toolkit: flashlight, binoculars, duct tape, scissors, watch caps, rawhide gloves, vinyl gloves, latex gloves, trash bags, 30-gallon can, tarpaulins, Sharpie, notebook--notebook? Well, yes. Technically, this is a journalistic exercise--at least, that's what we keep telling ourselves. We're upholding our sacred trust as representatives of the Fourth Estate. Comforting the afflicted, afflicting the comfortable. Pushing the reportorial envelope--by liberating the trash of Portland's top brass. We didn't dream up this idea on our own. We got our inspiration from the Portland police. Back in March, the police swiped the trash of fellow officer Gina Hoesly. They didn't ask permission. They didn't ask for a search warrant. They just grabbed it. Their sordid haul, which included a bloody tampon, became the basis for drug charges against her (see "Gross Violation," below). The news left a lot of Portlanders--including us--scratching our heads. Aren't there rules about this sort of thing? Aren't citizens protected from unreasonable search and seizure by the Fourth Amendment? The Multnomah County District Attorney's Office doesn't think so. Prosecutor Mark McDonnell says that once you set your garbage out on the curb, it becomes public property. "She placed her garbage can out in the open, open to public view, in the public right of way," McDonnell told Judge Jean Kerr Maurer earlier this month. "There were no signs on the garbage, 'Do not open. Do not trespass.' There was every indication...she had relinquished her privacy, possessory interest." Police Chief Mark Kroeker echoed this reasoning. "Most judges have the opinion that [once] trash is put out...it's trash, and abandoned in terms of privacy," he told WW. In fact, it turns out that police officers throughout Oregon have been rummaging through people's trash for more than three decades. Portland drug cops conduct "garbage pulls" once or twice per month, says narcotics Sgt. Eric Schober. On Dec. 10, Maurer rubbished this practice. Scrutinizing garbage, she declared, is an invasion of privacy: The police must obtain a search warrant before they swipe someone's trash. "Personal and business correspondence, photographs, personal financial information, political mail, items related to health concerns and sexual practices are all routinely found in garbage receptacles," Maurer wrote. The fact that a person has put these items out for pick-up, she said, "does not suggest an invitation to others to examine them." But local law enforcement officials pooh-poohed the judge's decision. "This particular very unique and very by-herself judge took a position not in concert with the other judges who had given us instruction by their decisions across the years," said Kroeker. The District Attorney's Office agreed and vowed to challenge the ruling. The question of whether your trash is private might seem academic. It's not. Your garbage can is like a trap door that opens on to your most intimate secrets; what you toss away is, in many ways, just as revealing as what you keep. And your garbage can is just one of the many places where your privacy is being pilfered. In the wake of 9/11, the U.S. government has granted itself far-reaching new powers to spy on you, from email to bank statements to video cameras (see "Big Brother's in Your Trash Can," below). After much debate, we resolved to turn the tables on three of our esteemed public officials. We embarked on an unauthorized sightseeing tour of their garbage, to make a point about how invasive a "garbage pull" really is--and to highlight the government's ongoing erosion of people's privacy. We chose District Attorney Mike Schrunk because his office is the most vocal defender of the proposition that your garbage is up for grabs. We chose Police Chief Mark Kroeker because he runs the bureau. And we chose Mayor Vera Katz because, as police commissioner, she gives the chief his marching orders. Each, in his or her own way, has endorsed the notion that you abandon your privacy when you set your trash out on the curb. So we figured they wouldn't mind too much if we took a peek at theirs. Boy, were we wrong. Perched in his office on the 15th floor of the Justice Center, Chief Kroeker seemed perfectly comfortable with the idea of trash as public property. "Things inside your house are to be guarded," he told WW. "Those that are in the trash are open for trash men and pickers and--and police. And so it's not a matter of privacy anymore." Then we spread some highlights from our haul on the table in front of him. "This is very cheap," he blurted out, frowning as we pointed out a receipt with his credit-card number, a summary of his wife's investments, an email prepping the mayor about his job application to be police chief of Los Angeles, a well-chewed cigar stub, and a handwritten note scribbled in pencil on a napkin, so personal it made us cringe. We also drew his attention to a newsletter from the conservative political advocacy group Focus on the Family, addressed to "Mr. & Mrs. Mark Kroeker." "Are you a member of Focus on the Family?" we asked. "No," the chief replied. "Is your wife?" "You know," he said, with a Clint Eastwood gaze, "it's none of your business." As we explained our thinking, the chief, who is usually polite to a fault, cut us off in midsentence. "OK," he said, suddenly standing up, "we're done." Hours later, the chief issued a press release complaining that WW had gone through "my personal garbage at my home." KATU promptly took to the airwaves declaring, "Kroeker wants Willamette Week to stay out of his garbage." If the chief got overheated, the mayor went nuclear. When we confessed that we had swiped her recycling, she summoned us to her chambers. "She wants you to bring the trash--and bring the name of your attorney," said her press secretary, Sarah Bott. Actually, we couldn't snatch Katz's garbage, because she keeps it right next to her house, well away from the sidewalk. To avoid trespassing, we had to settle for a bin of recycling left out front. The day after our summons, Wednesday, Dec. 18, we trudged down to City Hall, stack of newsprint in hand. A gaggle of TV and radio reporters were waiting to greet us, tipped off by high-octane KXL motor-mouth Lars Larson. We filed into the mayor's private conference room. The atmosphere, chilly to begin with, turned arctic when the mayor marched in. She speared us each with a wounded glare, then hoisted the bin of newspaper and stalked out of the room--all without uttering a word. A few moments later, her office issued a prepared statement. "I consider Willamette Week's actions in this matter to be potentially illegal and absolutely unscrupulous and reprehensible," it read. "I will consider all my legal options in response to their actions." In contrast, DA Mike Schrunk was almost playful when we owned up to nosing through his kitchen scraps. "Do I have to pay for this week's garbage collection?" he joked. We told Schrunk that we intended to report that his garbage contained mementos of his military service. "Don't burn me on that," he implored. "The Marine Corps will shoot me!" It's worth emphasizing that our junkaeological dig unearthed no whiff of scandal. Based on their throwaways, the chief, the DA and the mayor are squeaky-clean, poop-scooping folks whose private lives are beyond reproach. They emerge from this escapade smelling like--well, coffee grounds. But if three moral, upstanding, public-spirited citizens were each chewing their nails about the secrets we might have stumbled on, how the hell should the rest of us be feeling? HAUL OF FAME Decked out in watch caps and rubber gloves, we are kneeling in a freezing garage and cradling our first major discovery--a five-pound bag of dog poo. We set it down next to the rest of our haul from District Attorney Mike Schrunk's trash--the remains of Thanksgiving turkey, the mounting stack of his granddaughter's diapers, the bag of dryer lint, the tub of Skippy peanut butter, and the shredded bag of peanut M&Ms. There is something about poking through someone else's garbage that makes you feel dirty, and it's not just the stench and the flies. Scrap by scrap, we are reverse-engineering a grimy portrait of another human being, reconstituting an identity from his discards, probing into stuff that is absolutely, positively none of our damn business. It's one thing to revel in the hallowed tradition of muckraking. It's another to get down on your hands and knees and nose through wads of someone else's Kleenex. Is this why our parents sent us to college? So we could paw through orange peels and ice-cream tubs and half-eaten loaves of bread? And yet, there is also something seductive, almost intoxicating, about being a Dumpster detective. For example, we spot a clothing tag marked "44/Regular." Then we find half of a torn receipt from Meier & Frank for $262.99. Then we find the other half, which reads: "MENS SU 3BTN." String it together, and we deduce that Schrunk plunked down $262.99 for a size-44 three-button suit at Meier & Frank on Saturday, Nov. 16, at 9:35 am. We are getting to know Portland's top prosecutor from the inside out. Here's an empty bottle of Johnnie Walker Black Label. There's a pile of castoff duds from his days as a Marine. Is he going "soft" on terrorism!? Chinese takeout boxes and junk-food wrappers testify to a busy lifestyle with little time to cook. A Post-it note even lays bare someone's arithmetic skills (the addition is solid, but the long division needs work). Our haul from Mayor Vera Katz is limited to a stack of newsprint from her recycling bin--her garbage can was well out of reach--but we assemble several clues to her intellectual leanings. We find overwhelming evidence that the Mayor reads The Oregonian, The Washington Post National Weekly Edition, U.S. Mayor and the Portland Tribune. We also stumble across a copy of TV Click in which certain programs have been circled in municipal red. If we're not mistaken, the mayor has a special fondness for dog shows, figure skating and The West Wing. Our inspection of Chief Kroeker's refuse reveals that he is a scrupulous recycler. He is also a health nut. We find a staggering profusion of health-food containers: fat-free milk cartons, fat-free cereal boxes, cans of milk chocolate weight-loss shakes, cans of Swanson chicken broth ("99% fat free!"), water bottles, a cardboard box of protein bars, tubs of low-fat cottage cheese, a paper packet of oatmeal, and an article on "How to Live a Long Healthy Life." At the same time, we find evidence of rust in the chief's iron self-discipline: wrappers from See's chocolate bars, an unopened bag of Doritos, a dozen perfectly edible fun-size Nestle Crunch bars, three empty Coke cans. We unearth a crate that once contained 12 bottles of Cook's California sparkling wine, but find no trace of the bottles themselves. Is the chief building a pyramid of them on the mantelpiece? We stack the crate beside a pair of white children's socks, a broken pen, the stub of an Excalibur 1066 cigar, burnt toast, a freezer bag of date bars, orange peel, coffee grounds, a cork, an empty film canister (no weed--we checked), eggshells, Q tips, tissue paper and copious quantities of goo. We uncrumple a holiday flier from the Hinson Memorial Baptist Church, which contains a handwritten note: "Mark. Just want you to know one Latin from Manhattan Loves You." Invasion of privacy? This is a frontal assault, a D-Day, a Norman Conquest of privacy. We know the chief's credit-card number; we know where he buys his groceries; we know how much toilet tissue he goes through. We know whose Christmas cards he has pitched, whose wedding he skipped, whose photo he threw away. We know what newsletters he gets and how much he's socked away in the stock market. We even know he's thinking about a new car--and which models he's considering. By the time we tag the last item (a lonesome Christmas tree angel), our noses are running and our gloves are black with gunk. We scrub our hands when we get home. But we still feel dirty. --CL WHAT WE FOUND POLICE CHIEF MARK KROEKER * Empty containers and wrappers: Kodiak Washington pears, Washington "extra fancy" fancy lady peaches, Oasis Floral Foam bricks ("Worth Insisting Upon") (2), Kashi Go Lean! cereal, Sunshine fat-free milk, Kirkland Signature weight-loss shake, fat-free Swanson Chicken Broth, mandarin oranges, Coca-Cola, Diet Coke, Arrowhead water bottle, Cook's California sparkling-wine box, fried apples, cheese rolls, Bounty paper towels 15-roll pack, Kirkland facial tissue, 12-pack Dove soap, Quaker oatmeal, See's candy bars, lady's razors, Dentyne Ice chewing gum, Vivant zesty vegetable crackers. * Hershey's Cookies n Crhme mini-bars, uneaten (3). * Several Oregonian issues, still folded. * Email correspondence between chief and Mayor Katz's staff in which he preps them on what to tell Los Angeles officials regarding his application to be chief there. * Rough draft, internal police memo. * Various cash-register receipts. * Half-full bag of fun-size Nestle Crunch bars. * Slice of burnt toast. * Photocopy of WW Nov. 13 "Murmurs" item on chief, hand-dated in blue pen, reporting scuttlebutt that Katz has "taken over the day-to-day running of the Police Bureau." * Half-smoked stub of an Excalibur 1066 cigar. * Paper cups from Starbucks and Torrefazione. * Pears, lettuce, grapes, bread, eggshells, goo, potato salad, wire hangers, a 75 watt light bulb, orange peels, coffee grounds, wine cork, dish rag, film canister, used Q-Tips. * Half-eaten protein bar, still in wrapper. * Newsletter from Focus on the Family, a conservative political group. Insert, addressed to "Mr. & Mrs. Mark Kroeker." Insert asks for "one last year-end contribution." * Photos of chief and a bare-chested man moving a large appliance. * Creased wedding photo of a prominent Portlander. * Broken pen. * Three envelopes from California, hand-addressed, sent on consecutive days. * Notice from mortgage company for payment. * Internet printout of "How to Live a Long Healthy Life." * Postcard from friend vacationing in Arizona. * Post-it with notes about a new car. * Extremely personal note on dinner napkin, handwritten in pencil. * Account summary from Fidelity Investments for the chief's wife. MAYOR VERA KATZ * Trader Joe's "Happy Holidays" paper bag. * Several issues of The Oregonian. * Several issues of The Washington Post National Weekly Edition. * A copy of U.S. Mayor (a monthly magazine devoted to mayors). * A copy of TV Click. Someone has marked several programs in red, including Wargame: Iraq, Simulated National Security Council meetings, MSNBC; Everwood: Ephram tries to revive his mother's Thanksgiving traditions, KWBP; CSI Miami: A dead man is found hanging from a tree, KOIN; Life with Bonnie on KATU; The West Wing on KGW; The National Dog Show on KGW; Figure skating: ISU Cup of Russia, ESPN; Biography: "Audrey Hepburn, the Fairest Lady," A&E: Figure skating: ICE WARS: USA vs. The World, KOIN. * Several issues of the Portland Tribune. * Daily Journal of Commerce from Dec. 3, 2002. DISTRICT ATTORNEY MIKE SCHRUNK * Empty containers and wrappers: Cozy Fleece Baby Blanket, Bee Cleaners, Nibblets Corn and Butter, Johnnie Walker Black Label, Fred Meyer unflavored gelatin, Burger King beverage cup and straw, possible Chinese takeout (lots), Dreyer's Mocha Almond Fudge ice cream, Skippy peanut butter (creamy), Land's End, Fred Meyer green beans, Campbell's Chunky New England Clam Chowder with 100-watt bulb inside, Meier & Frank, Jelly Belly jelly beans, Foster Farms boneless and skinless Oregon chicken thighs. * Coffee grounds. * Used pekoe tea bags, many. * Used Christmas napkins, used Kleenex, used Q-Tips. * Remains of Thanksgiving turkey carcass, drumstick intact. * Remnants of roast beef. * Soiled baby diapers. * Plastic bags containing dog poo, very clean, with some blades of grass (2). * Bag of dryer lint. * Christmas wrapping paper. * Orange peels, empty Millstone coffee bag, containing two very ripe but uneaten bananas, two half-eaten loaves of wheat bread. * Disposable razors. * Remnants of peanut M&Ms bag. * Energizer AA batteries (2), wrapped in plastic bag. * Shopping lists. * Baseball cap with crustacean emblem: "DON'T BOTHER ME. I'm CRABBY." * Baseball cap for Outward Bound. * Baseball cap with embroidered green fish. * Military khaki shirts with "SCHRUNK" embroidered on pocket and collar (4). * Jacket, olive drab, with fading stencils of "USMC" and "Schrunk." * Yellow Post-it note with sample of someone's arithmetic: The addition is successful (54 + 32 = 86), but the long division of 32 divided by 6 comes up a little bit wide, at 5.4. Gross Violation Officer Gina Hoesly has long had less privacy than the average cop, thanks to the Portland Police Bureau's rumor mill. Hoesly (below), 34, has dated rock musicians, other cops and Portland Trail Blazers. She's had breast implants and once posed for a photo on a website selling motorcycle gear--badpig.com--showing plenty of skin. In 1996, she won a $20,000 settlement from the bureau in a sexual-harassment claim based on behavior by her co-workers. But none of that comes close to the scrutiny she received in March, when fellow officers rifled through her garbage. The evidence they found led to her indictment on charges of possessing ecstasy, cocaine and methamphetamine. Hoesly, a 13-year police officer who occasionally was an undercover decoy in police prostitution stings, became the subject of an investigation early this year, when she told police she'd been assaulted by her ex-boyfriend, Joshua David Rodriguez. Rodriguez has a history of drug arrests and convictions, and when officers booked him on assault charges, they found meth in his pocket. Subsequently police began investigating Hoesly, hearing rumors from police informants that she had used drugs. On March 13 at 2:07 am, narcotics officers Jay Bates and Michael Krantz took her garbage. The order to do so came from Assistant Chief Andrew Kirkland, who dated Hoesly in the early '90s. Searching through her trash back at Central Precinct, they found traces of cocaine and methamphetamine, as well as drug paraphernalia. They also found a bloody tampon. They sent a piece of the tampon to the state crime lab, where forensics experts tested it for drugs, DNA and, for reasons that remain unclear, semen. The results of those tests have not been released. The police didn't seek a search warrant to take Hoesly's trash because, as the Multnomah County District Attorney's office conceded, officers didn't at the time have sufficient evidence to convince a judge to issue a warrant. But once they had drug residue from Hoesly's trash, officers were able to persuade Judge Dorothy Baker to issue a search warrant for Hoesly's house. Inside, they found more paraphernalia and a diary that described apparent drug use. An indictment was issued in June. Hoesly, who is currently on medical leave and at the time of her arrest was in the process of medically retiring, pleaded not guilty and hired criminal-defense lawyer Stephen Houze. Like a Labrador smelling leftover turkey, Houze promptly zeroed in on the grabbing of her garbage. He argued that under Oregon's Constitution, privacy rights extend to someone's trash--at least until it's picked up by trash haulers. The used tampon "goes to the heart of just what an outrageous violation of privacy rights this police search was," Houze said. "If the police will do this to a police officer, who won't they do it to?" Not only that, he said, but if garbage is up for grabs, "There will be identity thieves lining up out there on every garbage day, knowing they can [take trash] with impunity." The Hoesly case is not unprecedented. In 1997, police poked in the trash of David Peters, a star prosecutor for Multnomah County, and found cocaine residue, which was used to obtain a search warrant. Unlike Hoesly, he was not indicted; instead, he was fined and allowed to enter court diversion to maintain a clean record. In a hearing on Dec. 10, Judge Jean Kerr Maurer agreed with Houze, issuing a ruling that said the cops' taking of trash was illegal. Senior Deputy District Attorney Mark McDonnell immediately said his office would challenge the ruling. --NB Big Brother's in Your Trash Can The government is essentially going through your trash every day, says Evan Hendricks, publisher of Privacy Times, a Washington, D.C., newsletter. "They just don't have to get their hands dirty. In the past 16 months, thanks to measures contained in the Patriot Act, the Homeland Security Act and the creation of the Total Information Awareness office, our government has turned into a bad Oliver Stone movie--you know, where a cabal of conservative spooks takes over and suddenly Big Brother is in charge. No longer do the Feds need to meet the evidentiary standard of "probable cause" to initiate an investigation or start amassing information on you. Nor do they need to show any evidence of a link to terrorism. All they need to do, in short, is say they find you suspicious. They don't need to tell a judge why. "This administration really represents a combination of Reaganism and McCarthyism--though they're not chasing Communists, they're chasing people that they call 'terrorists,'" says Hendricks, who grew up in Portland. "They're expanding their power and intimidating people to sort of go along or be afraid of being accused of being soft on terrorism." The October 2001 enactment of the USA Patriot Act opened the door to domestic and Internet surveillance, as well as warrantless, covert "sneak and peek" searches. Then, on Nov. 19, 2002, Congress approved the Homeland Security Act, which Sen. Pat Leahy (D-Vt.) called the "most severe weakening of the Freedom of Information Act in its 36-year history." The HSA also created the Total Information Awareness office, whose logo, taken from the back of the dollar bill, is of a pyramid with an eye on top, looking down at the globe. Headed by Iran-Contra co-conspirator Admiral John Poindexter, the agency will "mine" commercial databases, including magazine subscriptions and book purchases, to spy on American citizens. It plans to use this information to profile likely terrorist supporters; it also wants to deploy video camera and facial-recognition surveillance systems. "The Pentagon basically wants to knock down the walls to all private-sector records and plug into them," says Hendricks. "And trash is like a microcosm of what you get: the bills people pay, what they buy at the store, the packages they throw out. The government is proposing more systematic surveillance of databases that have the same information." How do they define who is a likely terrorist supporter? Sorry, but that's a secret. Attorney General John Ashcroft has given federal agencies free rein to reject information requests, with the assurance that his Department of Justice would defend the agencies no matter what. Civil-liberties advocates point to the inherent danger in granting the government such sweeping power. Declassified documents have shown myriad abuses by law-enforcement agencies involved in domestic spying in the '60s, '70s and '80s, including in Portland. In 1997, a Washington, D.C., police official used video surveillance of people coming and going from a gay bar to try to blackmail married men. And studies of camera systems in Britain found that they were used to target minorities for increased police attention, while women caught on camera were often targeted for voyeuristic reasons, with male camera operators panning over them for purposes of ogling. Small wonder that even conservatives such as Rep. Dick Armey, Sen. Charles Grassley and New York Times columnist William Safire are going ballistic. Attorney General Ashcroft is "out of control," and the federal government has "no credibility" on protecting individuals' privacy, said Armey, who has even volunteered to do consulting work for the ACLU on privacy issues upon his retirement. "You Are a Suspect" was the title of Safire's Nov. 14 column on the Total Information Awareness program, which he called a "supersnoop's dream" and a "sweeping theft of privacy rights." --NB From juicy at melontraffickers.com Wed Jan 1 10:54:24 2003 From: juicy at melontraffickers.com (A.Melon) Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 10:54:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: QM, etc... Message-ID: <608b76d8779c482855ce11459138a161@melontraffickers.com> Tim May wrote... (oh wait, maybe it was Jim Choate!) "The major hole in -all- current QM systems is they do not take into account relativistic effects. Which are required -any time- a photon is involved." Choate, you DO say some interesting things sometimes*, but sometimes you come up with some real wacky crapola. This is one of them! PAM Dirac united quantum mechanics with relativity coming up with relativistic quantum mechanics. From this the existence of the positron was predicted. If you still want to say there's some kind of "hole" in quantum theory, then are you saying that if we fix this hole, QM will bve able to predict experimental outcomes to, say 20 decimals rather than 10? (QM is by far the most sucesful physical theory ever developed.) As for the other comments, they don't really have bearing on EPR. Remember, the E in EPR stands for Einstein, and it was he himself who predicted the bizarre and counter-to-all-rational-beliefs-about-physical-reality-type nature of quantum behavior. (Actually, he and Podolsky and Rosen put forth these arguments as proof that something was fundamentally flawed. He never guesed we'd actually SEE this stuff happen one day.) But my point is, if Einstein himself didn't see any reason to invoke relativity in this case, then its really not relevant. No, relativity is not the 'hole' in EPR. Our understanding about the nature of physical reality is the hole. How does a photon "know" what another photon is doing instantaneously? (It doesn't matter 'as measured by who'...as long as ONE observer is able to see then communicate 'instantaneously', then we're no longer in territory that anybody really understands.) Or if you want to weasel-word around this, then grapple with Ahranov-Bohm. How do the electrons "know" about the voltage of a removed zone? They have no connection with that zone whatsoever (unless you want to invoke the "Magentic Vector Potential", but then I guess its a complete coincidence that A-B accruately predicts the phenomenon...right?). -Tyler Durden I actually have wanted to respond to some of your attempts to de-couple strong crypto from a need for certain political/ideological stances, but I haven't had the time. Suffice it to say, there's good reason for using strong crypto without necessarily supporting any single political ideology. From sfurlong at acmenet.net Wed Jan 1 13:55:38 2003 From: sfurlong at acmenet.net (Steve Furlong) Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 16:55:38 -0500 Subject: The Culpability of the Conformist Criminal Choate. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200301011655.38609.sfurlong@acmenet.net> On Wednesday 01 January 2003 09:28, Jim Choate wrote: > ... If I as an individual can not > decide to take anothers life at my whim (ie 'convicted' by individual > ethics) how than can a group of men do it? Can a group of men have a > right that as individuals they do not? No. Ergo, the state has no > 'right' (which is another hole in the logic) to take a life through > some process called 'conviction'. ... > The positions are actually hold-overs from past despotic > mono-authoritarian world views. They have no place in a democratic > society. I am in complete agreement with Jim on this. Crap --- now I need to check my meds. SRF -- Steve Furlong Computer Condottiere Have GNU, Will Travel You don't expect governments to obey the law because of some higher moral development. You expect them to obey the law because they know that if they don't, those who aren't shot will be hanged. --Michael Shirley From schear at attbi.com Wed Jan 1 18:45:25 2003 From: schear at attbi.com (Steve Schear) Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 18:45:25 -0800 Subject: I Crypto U and your files In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030101183936.0372ab40@mail.attbi.com> At 01:40 PM 12/27/2002 +0100, Eugen Leitl wrote: >On Thu, 26 Dec 2002, Anonymous wrote: > > > to have an encrypted tunnel materialize through blacknet, but I > > strongly doubt this will scale to millions of users very well. > >Instead of doubting, try creating a model that might work, and test drive >it in the simulator with millions of nodes. Have any on the list looked carefully at Tarzan? http://www.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/tarzan/index.html steve From eresrch at eskimo.com Wed Jan 1 19:12:28 2003 From: eresrch at eskimo.com (Mike Rosing) Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 19:12:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: Dossiers and Customer Courtesy Cards In-Reply-To: <73DE3611-1CF2-11D7-9BF4-0050E439C473@got.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Dec 2002, Tim May wrote: > * I expect most uses of "customer courtesy cards" are to try to get > some kind of brand loyalty going. People thinking "Well, I have a card > at Albertson's, but not at Safeway, so I'll go to Albertson's." They'd love that, but know better. > * Dossier-compiling does not seem to be the motivation...at least not > yet. The data are too sparse, it seems to me. I don't know if people > who "honestly" gave a name and mailing address, and whose data were > keypunched accurately, are getting the "targeted mailings" for Midol, > Attends, Trojans, etc. that the technology can support. Well, my wife has gotten 2 (!) flower pots for being the "in top 10 spenders" at our local grocery store. They delivered to our door. Couldn't do that if it wasn't a real address. They do print out coupons based on products purchased - they try to get you to buy competitors brands. I don't know how much the competitors pay for this service, but it's definitly tied into purchase patterns. What will Ridge do with that info? Who knows, but it ain't good. > * Dossier compiling at grocery stores is not very useful for Big > Brother, either. Who consumes Midol, Attends, Trojans, etc. is not > interesting even to George Bush and Dick Cheney. And few hardware or > electrical supply stores have courtesy cards. In any case, no > requirement to use cards, etc. But we have a military division devoted to psychowar. I would assume they'd use brand and product tracing to get a handle on how to freak people out. > * All in all, not a very interesting example of ID and tracking. Things > will get much more interesting, and worrisome, if there is ever a > national ID system (in the U.S.) and some kind of legislated > requirement (albeit unconstitutional!) that citizen-units must ID > themselves with valid ID for all purchases, or at least of certain > classes of purchases (beyond guns, for example). > > I don't see this happening in the next 15 years unless some major new > terrorist incident occurs. It will. The dictatorship isn't quite as complete as they'd like. Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike From eresrch at eskimo.com Wed Jan 1 19:45:52 2003 From: eresrch at eskimo.com (Mike Rosing) Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 19:45:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: constant encryped stream In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Jan 2003, Eugen Leitl wrote: > I have a related question. I have a little server sitting in a wall > closet. Does anyone have an easy solution (preferably low tech) for > figuring out that the closet door has been opened? from a kids cartoon a couple weeks ago: put a bowl of marbles next to the door. All but one the same color. Whoever spills the marbles doesn't know where you put the "wrong" one (nor how many there were if you can put a few holes in the floor :-) Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike From kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com Wed Jan 1 16:48:49 2003 From: kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com (John Kelsey) Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 19:48:49 -0500 Subject: Dossiers and Customer Courtesy Cards In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20021231130028.052bb1a8@idiom.com> References: <20021231202759.GD28949@rilke> <203A12EC-1CFC-11D7-9BF4-0050E439C473@got.net> <20021231193216.GB28838@rilke> <203A12EC-1CFC-11D7-9BF4-0050E439C473@got.net> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030101011744.00a7ba10@pop.ix.netcom.com> At 01:46 PM 12/31/02 -0800, Bill Stewart wrote: ... >The scalability of the problem is much different depending on your goals. >If you want to sort through the transcriptions of people who >bought drugs and knives and airline tickets but no luggage >in an effort to find potential terrorists, that's useless. >But if you've already got a suspect, like a Green Party member >who wrote an annoyed letter to the President and threatened to >tell her Congresscritter in person what a bad President he is, ... It's worth pointing out that if you can afford to do the computerized part of this search for your top 16 suspects today, you'll be able to do it for your top thousand suspects in less than ten years, just assuming processing and storage gets cheaper at current rates.... --John Kelsey, kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com From mbc at debian.org Wed Jan 1 20:55:04 2003 From: mbc at debian.org (Michael Cardenas) Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 20:55:04 -0800 Subject: biological systems and cryptography In-Reply-To: References: <20021231194159.GA28949@rilke> Message-ID: <20030102045504.GA31028@rilke> On Tue, Dec 31, 2002 at 12:23:51PM -0800, Tim May wrote: > On Tuesday, December 31, 2002, at 11:41 AM, Michael Cardenas wrote: > > >How do you all see the future use of biologically based systems > >affecting cryptography in general? > > > >By biologically based systems I mean machine learning, genetic > >algorithms, chips that learn (like Carver Mead's work), neural > >networks, vecor support machines, associative memory, etc. > > Strong crypto is, ipso facto, resistant to all of the above. For the > obvious reason that the specific solution to a cipher is like a Dirac > delta function (a spike) rising above a featureless plain, this in > terms of the usual hill-climbing or landscape-learning models which all > of the above use in one form or another. > People do break cyphers, by finding weaknesses in them. Are you saying that you think that current cyphers are unbreakable? Also, what about using biological systems to create strong cyphers, not to break them? > Cryptanalysis of weak crypto, in terms of mundane things like > passphrase guessing, finding images tagged with stego code, etc., > already in some cases makes use of these tools. Bob Baldwin's > Crytpographer's Workbench used learning algorithms a long time ago. > > Strong math wins out over weak crypto any day, and attempting to brute > force a cipher with even a swimming pool full of Adleman machines will > not work: if a 400-digit number takes, for instance, a million Pentium > 4 years to brute force factor, then how long does a 600-digit number > take? > > (And using larger RSA moduli is of course trivial...) > > Homework: Using the estimates Schneier, Diffie, Hellman, and others > have made for the number of computer operations to break ciphers of > various kinds, describe a reasonable cipher and modulus or key length > which will take more energy than there is in the entire universe to > break. The answer, in terms of how small the key or modulus is, may > surprise you. > It seems that all of these analyses assume that an instruction is a single mathematical operation in a turing machine. What if each operation was something else? I refuse to believe that the human mind is just a turing machine. -- michael cardenas | lead software engineer, lindows.com hyperpoem.net | GNU/Linux software developer people.debian.org/~mbc | encrypted email preferred "It is as hard to see one's self as to look backwards without turning around." - Henry David Thoreau [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature] From chuck at mutualaid.org Wed Jan 1 19:49:19 2003 From: chuck at mutualaid.org (Chuck0) Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 22:49:19 -0500 Subject: Specifismo. References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030102144347.00a28c40@mail.nex.net.au> Message-ID: <3E13B6BF.2090002@mutualaid.org> I'm failing to understand what it so new about "specifismo." I've been arguing for a strategy like this for many years, as have many anarchists. It sounds like something related to "practical anarchism" and "ecumenical anarchism" which have been focuses of my work for many years. I think the anarchist emphasis on practical daily struggles, creating counter institutions, and long term resistance to the state and capitalism, is what sets anarchism apart from vanguardist socialism. If Albert and other leftists are finally accepting anarchist ideas and methodology, that sounds good to me. Chuck0 Matthew X wrote: > > To: anarchy_africa at yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [anarchy_africa] > Anarcho-socialism? > > I'm pretty new to the list, so I don't know how much of this has been > said before, but I have a couple things to add on the issue of > sectarianism. First, I think some Latin American anarchists, under the > banner of specifismo, have begun to fashion an anarchist practice that > avoids sectarianism. It posits that since not everyone has the same > structural position in the world, not everyone needs to organize > themselves along the same lines. Not everyone fits the "worker" mold- > the unemployed, the marginalized, etc. Also, it encourages anarchists to > both organize as anarchists within anarchist organizations and become > deeply involved, as anarchists, within worthwhile social movements that > are not explicitly anarchist (such as the landless movement in Brazil, > Sem Terra). Brazilian anarchists are organizing a promising new > federation only open to those who accept specifismo, precisely because, > I think, sectarianism was a problem in previous attempts at federation. > Although more has been written in anarchist > journalshttp://www.ainfos.ca/02/feb/ainfos00489.html > (He has also written very interesting articles about the history of > nonwestern anarchism and the World Social Forum in Brazil > http://www.geocities.com/ringfingers/nonwesternweb.html > http://www.zmag.org/content/VisionStrategy/AdamsWSF.cfm) > Second, I think it is very crucial for anarchists to affirm a > multiplicity of analysis, organizations and visions of a future world. > There is no reason why one ultra-specific set of analyses must be > accepted by everyone, as long as everyone is united in fundamental > opposition the state, capitalism and all other forms of hierarchy and > oppresssion. A multiplicity of anarchist styles, emphases and organizing > practices would seem necessary for people's unique situations and > creativity to be recognized and valorized. Similarly, there is no reason > to insist that one single social structure or set of social structures > must dominate a post-revolutionary world (the cause of much > sectarianism). It would seem to be an implicit principle of a consistent > anarchism that, during and after any anarchist revolution worth the > name, each community will be able to decide what kind of nonhierarchical > social organization they would like to make use of, and what kind of > federations they'd like to be involved in. As the (not expliciAnyway, > just a couple thoughts. > Jesse > "robbo203 " wrote:Hi everyone > > One reason - possibly a major one - why the non-market anti-statist > sector has made such little headway, has to do with the ingrained, > almost institutionalised, sectarianism that has afflicted this > sector. Lets face it, most of us belong to, or are associated with, > tiny little groups , some even tinier than others, with little or no > cooperation going on between them. Its as if some Inverse (or should > I say, "perverse") Law of Political Affinity operates in some cases: > the degree of political hostility shown towards one another increases > in proportion to the narrowness of the ideological gap between one > another. Which of course, is a very sad state of affairs: this is > precisely what helps to keep our sector small and ineffectual and > more intent upon gazing at its navel than changing the world > Perhaps the major sectarian divide is between "socialists" > and "anarchists". Clearly, there are many "anarchists" > and "socialists" who do not fall within the non-market anti-statist > sector and obviously the question of co-operation with such > individuals and groups is fundamentally problematic. That said, > there are a diverse range of anarchist and socialist groups who > clearly do fall within the non-market anti-socialist sector and it is > with such groups and individuals that I am concerned. > It seems to me that one of the ways in which sectarianism is > perpetuated is through the labeling and pidgeonholing of our > respective positions. That being so we can perhaps help to bring > about a more inclusive and colloborative approach by redefining our > basic orientation. Which is why I would like to recommend the term > anarcho-socialism (or, alternatively, anarcho-communism)for general > usgae in preference to terms such as "anarchism" or "socialism". > It seems to me that this more effectively highlights the fact, as far > as "socialists" in our sector are concerned, that the kind > of "socialist" society we are after will be one in which there will > be no government or state (the "executive committee of the ruling > class") - as suggested by the prefix "anarcho-" - thereby > distinguishing this kind of "socialism" from what most people have in > mind which has perhaps been irrevocably besmirched by its (mis) > association with state tyranny. Conversely, as far as "anarchists" > in our sector are concerned, it would be advantageous for them to > more effectively distance themselves from others who likewise claim > to be anarchists e.g. the anarcho-capitalists, by firmly grounding > their anarchism in a non-capitalist context. > I raise this as a suggestion but would be interested to hear what > others might have to say on the matter.... > Best regards > Robin > World in Common group > FORUM: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/worldincommon/ > WEBSITE (temporary): http://www.angelfire.com/folk/wic/ > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT > ------ > >From the African anarchism list to send a message email > anarchy_africa at yahoogroups.com > http://struggle.ws/africa.html > Find out about others on the list and add your info > in the polls and bookmarks sections > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anarchy_africa > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------ > >From the African anarchism list to send a message email > anarchy_africa at yahoogroups.com > http://struggle.ws/africa.html > Find out about others on the list and add your info > in the polls and bookmarks sections > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anarchy_africa > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > -- Chuck0 ------------------------------------------------------------ Personal homepage -> http://chuck.mahost.org/ Infoshop.org -> http://www.infoshop.org/ MutualAid.org -> http://www.mutualaid.org/ Alternative Press Review -> http://www.altpr.org/ Practical Anarchy Online -> http://www.practicalanarchy.org/ Anarchy: AJODA -> http://www.anarchymag.org/ "The state can't give you free speech, and the state can't take it away. You're born with it, like your eyes, like your ears. Freedom is something you assume, then you wait for someone to try to take it away. The degree to which you resist is the degree to which you are free..." ---Utah Phillips From eresrch at eskimo.com Thu Jan 2 06:27:23 2003 From: eresrch at eskimo.com (Mike Rosing) Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 06:27:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: Dossiers and Customer Courtesy Cards In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030101211629.03ee3ae8@popmail2.cortland.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Jan 2003, Todd Boyle wrote: > Its not enough to put the chips next to the beer. They want > to examining the layout of all their shelf space. > The cash register data alone, is enough to do this, but > it doesn't work very well for shoppers who come and > buy chips on tuesday and beer on wednesday. The > card lets them associate your whole shopping cart > for the month. It's a nice idea, but they have several people on one card. When my kids are teenagers, they'll have the same card I and my wife have. So they have whole families in that data mix. I'd think they would try to correlate the cash register data with each person - the kids are in the candy corner, the dad is getting the beer and mom is getting the chips. Doesn't seem like a very simple problem to me! Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike From boo at datashopper.dk Thu Jan 2 01:51:13 2003 From: boo at datashopper.dk (Bo Elkjaer) Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 10:51:13 +0100 (CET) Subject: List of documents from ILETS 97 seminar on lawful interception Message-ID: The following is a documentlist obtained from the danish ministry of information technology and science concerning the international law enforcement telecommunications seminar ILETS 97 held january 1997 in Dublin. I haven't been able to locate the documents listed and all FOIA-requests concerning the documents have consequently been denied under exceptions concerning national security and Denmarks relations to foreign governments. Anyhow, since only a few tidbits of information have surfaced from the ILETS seminars over the years I thought that the documentlist still might be interesting enough to be worth publishing. Yours Bo Elkjaer, Denmark Aktliste vedr. ILETS 1997 IT- og forskningsministeriet 27. november 2001 IT-politisk Kontor jgu Sagsnr. 16556 Dok.id 111833 Nr. Dokumenttitel 1 Notat vedr, rapport fra ILETS 1997 2 Telefax vedlagt ILETS Technical Newsletter fra Royal Canadian Mounted Police 3 Dokument ref. 1/1 - agenda items 4 & 5 - Standing Technical Commitee, Lawful Interception of Satellite Telecommunications (S-PCS) 4 Participants List - incl, adresser, tlf, og fax. 5 Programme for ILETS 1997 - 3.-6. februar 1997 6 National developments since ILETS 1995 - Australia 7 Belgian document -- Intercept of Communications - Belgian situated Report jan. 97 8 The state of telecommunications intercept in Canada 9 Report on developments in the European Union since November 1995 in relation to lawful interception of telecommunications 10 Appendix 1 - Resolution of the council of the European Union of 17 January, 1995 on the lawful interception of telecommunications as published in the official journal of the European Communities 11 Appendix 2 - mobile satelite 12 Contribution to agenda A 3 - National developments since ILETS 1995 in Germany 13 National developments since ILETS 1995 in Luxembourg 14 Telecommunications developments in the Netherlands. 15 Hong Kong Developments Post-Canberra 16 United States Telecommunications developments 17 ILETS 1997 - workshop 1 - - Interception outside national boundaries - SPCS Contacts/technical information 18 Interception costs - who ultimately pays the cost - Law inforcement Agency (G/A) or Network Operator/Service provider_(NO/SP) 19 The interception of telecommunications in the United Kingdom - developments since ILETS 1995 20 Workshop i - lawful interception outside national boundaries - outcomes agenda item 5 21 ILETS 1997 - standing technical committee, Dublin February 1997 - report on Technical matters affecting interception 22 Participants List Workshop 3 & 4 23 Paper on regulatory intent concerning use of encryption on public networks 24 Contribution to workshop 2 (encryption) of the ILETS 1997 - Bonn 29 January 1997 25 Policy - legal access to keys held by trusted third parties: international aspects 26 UK delegation paper global handover interface specification (GloHIS) Current position and way forward 27 Workshop 3 - New technical Issues - List for discussion - Denmark 28 Paper of the preparatory meeting on interception in the Hague, the 25th and 26th November 29 Information from the expert Sub Group (technical) 30 Lawful interception of satellite personal communications systems 31 Note circulated by Germany on the lawful interception af satellite communications. 32 Liason between the providers of telecommunication and law enforcement agencies - the UK experience 33 International law enforcement telecommunication seminar - contribution from the Netherlands delegation 34 German contribution for workshop 1 35 Workshop 3: DC Office Contact Information 36 View to the adoption of decision no ../96/EC of the European Parliament and of the council on a coordinated authoryzation approach in the field of satellite personal-communication services in the community 37 Standing technical committee - report on technical matters affecting interception 38 Australien call tracing specification 39 Source: Netherlands - Proposal to amend the international user Requirements published in ENFOPOL 90 40 Workshop 4: Draft letter to non EU participants in the informal international law enforcement telecommunications seminar - council resolution af 17 January 1995 on the lawful interception of telecommunications and internationsl support for the requirements annexed to the resolution 41 Summary of replies to questionnary on the integration of the council resolution of 17 January 1995 intro national law (GJ No C329, 4.11.1996, p1) 42 Letter enclosed declaration relating to law enforcements international user reguierements_for_telecommunication_interception 43 Dissemination of the international user requirement 44 Final List - Members of the council 45 UK delegation paper - expert working group on the international interception user reguirements (JUR) amendment proposal 46 Svar pa sporgsmal nr. 490-493 fra Folketingets Retsudvalg vedr. ILETS - alm. del -bilag 1194 47 Svar pa Folketingssporgsmal nr. 495 alm. del bilag 1209 -- EOT From nobody at cryptofortress.com Thu Jan 2 09:16:57 2003 From: nobody at cryptofortress.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 11:16:57 -0600 (CST) Subject: Nevada Supreme Court rules suspect must give police ID Message-ID: <1205d212327d6d0937d72b92560d7ce4@remailer.cryptofortress.com> On Thu, 2 Jan 2003 10:26:40 -0500, you wrote: > > http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2002/Dec-21-Sat-2002/news/20327620.html > > > Las Vegas Review Journal > > Saturday, December 21, 2002 > Hiibel refused to identify himself during a May 2000 stop just outside of > Winnemucca because he did not believe he did anything wrong. After Dove > asked him 11 times to produce identification, Hiibel was arrested. The law > requires people to identify themselves to police when ordered to do so. > Hiibel later was convicted in district court of resisting and obstructing a > police officer in carrying out his duties. He appealed that verdict -- and > a fine of $320 -- to the Supreme Court. So if you are sitting on a public park bench in Nevada, with no ID that you can "produce" on your person, and you so inform an officer asking you for ID, are you now guilty of "resisting and obstructing a police officer" in the state of Nevada? Should you wear your ID with a neck chain, when showering, for example, to avoid the possibility of "resisting and hindering", or would it be reasonable to simply wait for your chip implantation? We need to remember that police officers are not here to protect our freedom, rather we are here to protect their safety, and we just have to accept the destruction of the Bill of Rights and other risks, so they can be safer. We must understand that police don't exist to make us safe, rather we exist to make police safe. Do we get a badge or something? Bagpipes playing when they shoot the remaining tatters of the 6th amendment? Home of the surveilled, land of the cowards, God bless America. Please tune into your TV now for the next Homeland Security threat warning. Be afraid. From eugen at leitl.org Thu Jan 2 02:30:37 2003 From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl) Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 11:30:37 +0100 (CET) Subject: biological systems and cryptography In-Reply-To: <20030102045504.GA31028@rilke> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Jan 2003, Michael Cardenas wrote: > People do break cyphers, by finding weaknesses in them. Are you saying > that you think that current cyphers are unbreakable? People break cyphers by 1) cryptoanalysis (mostly brain, a bit of muscle) 2) brute force (no brain at all, pure muscle) So far we've been talking purely brute force here. It is easy to see that a current cypher requiring a 10^6..10^9 computer-years brute force can be broken in realtime if attacked by a massively parallel molecular electronics computer common several decades downstream. It is trivial to design cyphers running on today's hardware which would be safe from that attack. No one is doing that because you want speedy encryption on today's software. And secrets become stale quick. The quantum computer is a dark horse, because no one really knows how much quantum parallelism you can extract from a given pile of molecules. Plus, not all algorithms can be mapped to a QM machine. It also seems that entanglement is energy bound, but the field is still moving far too quickly to say anything meaningful. > Also, what about using biological systems to create strong cyphers, > not to break them? Molecules are molecules. Solvated linear biopolymers are lousy computers in any case. So are 5-qubit QM machines which require an NMR machine, for that matter. Whether classical, or QM, it has better be solid state, and preferrably not require mK environment to run. > It seems that all of these analyses assume that an instruction is a > single mathematical operation in a turing machine. What if each > operation was something else? I refuse to believe that the human mind > is just a turing machine. The human mind is not a Turing machine. But a Turing machine is an all purpose computational device, so in principle it can simulate relevant aspects of physical system evolution. Including the spiking, diffusion, genomic activity networks in each cell and god knows what else in the physical system residing between your ears. Meaning, a suitably constructed machine could be intelligent. It can be even you if you keep your and its state synched. From morlockelloi at yahoo.com Thu Jan 2 12:57:13 2003 From: morlockelloi at yahoo.com (Morlock Elloi) Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 12:57:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: QM, Bell's Inequality and Quantum Cryptosystems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030102205713.70733.qmail@web40602.mail.yahoo.com> > But in the end, as strange and unreasonable as this action-at-a-distance may > be, it's now regularly seen in the laboratory. (Even wierder are the 'quantum > eraser' and other bizarre behaviors). Is there any practical way to translate this into doll-and-needles method of punishing modelled targets at a distance ? ===== end (of original message) Y-a*h*o-o (yes, they scan for this) spam follows: Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com Thu Jan 2 10:02:17 2003 From: kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com (John Kelsey) Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 13:02:17 -0500 Subject: biological systems and cryptography In-Reply-To: <20030102045504.GA31028@rilke> References: <20021231194159.GA28949@rilke> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030102125026.00a951c0@pop.ix.netcom.com> At 08:55 PM 1/1/03 -0800, Michael Cardenas wrote: >On Tue, Dec 31, 2002 at 12:23:51PM -0800, Tim May wrote: ... > > Strong crypto is, ipso facto, resistant to all of the above. For the > > obvious reason that the specific solution to a cipher is like a Dirac > > delta function (a spike) rising above a featureless plain, this in > > terms of the usual hill-climbing or landscape-learning models which all > > of the above use in one form or another. > >People do break cyphers, by finding weaknesses in them. Are you saying >that you think that current cyphers are unbreakable? Well, there's a difference between a system to recover plaintext given ciphertext (which ought not to work for any decent cipher, given a hill-climbing sort of approach), and a system to help a human work out the right way to cryptanalyze a system. Hill-climbing techniques make sense when analyzing a component of a cipher, say. (I know people have done stuff like this in various places, but I'm away from my library, so you'll have to look it up yourself.) >Also, what about using biological systems to create strong cyphers, >not to break them? This ought to just be the other side of using these systems to do analysis. If you can find an especially good way to partition the set of texts for a partitioning attack, you can use that to decide how to design your cipher to resist the attacks, for example. -- >michael cardenas | lead software engineer, lindows.com >hyperpoem.net | GNU/Linux software developer >people.debian.org/~mbc | encrypted email preferred --John Kelsey, kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com From eresrch at eskimo.com Thu Jan 2 13:16:40 2003 From: eresrch at eskimo.com (Mike Rosing) Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 13:16:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: QM, Bell's Inequality and Quantum Cryptosystems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Anonymous wrote: > No. Bell's inequality tells us that there are no "hidden variables". >It's not that we don't know the value of the measureable prior to >wavefunction collapse...the specific measureable doesn't exist prior to >wavefunction collapse. When Bell formulated the testable inequality circa >1980, and then it was experimentally violated (the inequality, that is, >not the theory behind it), it became accepted within physics that (as >expected) wavefunction collapse determines (right then and there) the >value of observables, forcing the universe to choose, according to the >probabilities. (Of course, this was basically understood from QM's >beginnings, but prior to John Bell's work we couldn't actually test that >this was reality.) This really gets into my interpretation. I don't need hidden variables. The crux to me is that the particles are correlated and we use math to describe the probability of what the correlation is. Once we measure one particle we know the other one. Before we measure we don't know anything. That's all. QM tells us what the probability distribution is for any given measurement, it can't tell us anything about a particular outcome. > Taking a measurement (whether acidentally or on purpose) forces the >quantum system to "choose" instantaneously. Einstein understood this >aspect of Quantum Mechanics so well that he and 'P' and 'R' concocted the >EPR gedanken to show that this implies what is effectively "action at a >distance"...the different pieces of a quantum system, even far removed, >spontaneously 'know' about the other parts. (In fact, I would bet that >Einstein's original complaints about QM's action-at-a-distance may have >been what prompted the reactionary fad of 'well, QM is merely a useful >calculational tool...) In my model there is no instantaneous choice. It was chosen at the start. We can not know anything about the correlation until we measure, then we know everything. > But in the end, as strange and unreasonable as this >action-at-a-distance may be, it's now regularly seen in the laboratory. >(Even wierder are the 'quantum eraser' and other bizarre behaviors). Yeah, Scientific American has some really nice "popular" descriptions of these things. It just doesn't seem weird to me. It seems like reality. :-) Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike From schear at attbi.com Thu Jan 2 18:23:05 2003 From: schear at attbi.com (Steve Schear) Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 18:23:05 -0800 Subject: FC: Will this column land me in federal prison under the DMCA? In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030102105058.019fb008@mail.well.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030102181832.038eef78@mail.attbi.com> At 10:52 AM 1/2/2003 -0800, Declan McCullagh wrote: >http://news.com.com/2010-1028-978636.html > > Perspective: Will this land me in jail? > By Declan McCullagh > December 23, 2002, 4:00 AM PT > > WASHINGTON--It's not every day that I fret about committing a string > of federal felonies that could land me in prison until sometime in > 2008. It seems that in the interest of having a cute story to write you've boxedourself in the corner so you needn't provide anything really useful to your readers. Why didn't you just anonymously post the passwords in alt.anonymous or send it to John Young and tell your readers a little birdie told me? Sheesh! steve From nobody at nox.lemuria.org Thu Jan 2 11:03:28 2003 From: nobody at nox.lemuria.org (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 20:03:28 +0100 (CET) Subject: QM, Bell's Inequality and Quantum Cryptosystems Message-ID: "Easy, the particles are correlated at birth. *they* know what their orientation is, it is fixed at birth. The math says *we* don't know." No. Bell's inequality tells us that there are no "hidden variables". It's not that we don't know the value of the measureable prior to wavefunction collapse...the specific measureable doesn't exist prior to wavefunction collapse. When Bell formulated the testable inequality circa 1980, and then it was experimentally violated (the inequality, that is, not the theory behind it), it became accepted within physics that (as expected) wavefunction collapse determines (right then and there) the value of observables, forcing the universe to choose, according to the probabilities. (Of course, this was basically understood from QM's beginnings, but prior to John Bell's work we couldn't actually test that this was reality.) (I would argue that this was one of the necessary conceptual pieces needed for people to trust the notion of quantum cryptography.) Taking a measurement (whether acidentally or on purpose) forces the quantum system to "choose" instantaneously. Einstein understood this aspect of Quantum Mechanics so well that he and 'P' and 'R' concocted the EPR gedanken to show that this implies what is effectively "action at a distance"...the different pieces of a quantum system, even far removed, spontaneously 'know' about the other parts. (In fact, I would bet that Einstein's original complaints about QM's action-at-a-distance may have been what prompted the reactionary fad of 'well, QM is merely a useful calculational tool...) But in the end, as strange and unreasonable as this action-at-a-distance may be, it's now regularly seen in the laboratory. (Even wierder are the 'quantum eraser' and other bizarre behaviors). -TD From danny_tang at dialthis.com Thu Jan 2 22:49:41 2003 From: danny_tang at dialthis.com (danny tang) Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 22:49:41 Subject: happy new year Message-ID: <200301030649.h036ne622089@waste.minder.net> Hello, we got a New year present for you if you are a Chinese in USA, if not, I am sorry for interrupting you! Now we provide 15 minutes free call for every Chinese to make a call to China, or 30 minutes to Taiwan or Hong Kong. I am sorry; it is only for 15 minutes or 30 minutes, for you know there are so many friends in USA. If you agree with the 10 minutes free call, tell me your phone number, and i will register your phone number in our system. That you can make a free call. When we register you in our system, the system will send you an E-mail telling you how to make a free call! whatever is says, you don't have to pay anything or do anything, except say thanks to me! happy new year! Danny Tang danny_tang at dialthis.com Bigredphone PS: 1,if you think our present is good to your friends, please forward this mail! thanks a lot!!!!!!! 2,our non-free servise is only 6.6 penny/minute to china. From ESavers at usairways.com Thu Jan 2 21:00:00 2003 From: ESavers at usairways.com (ESavers at usairways.com) Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 23:00:00 -0600 Subject: US Airways E-Savers to Rome and Madrid Message-ID: <200301030510.h035AALY003873@ak47.algebra.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dear E-Savers Subscriber, US Airways is pleased to present this special International E-Savers offer: ************************************************************ 1. This Week's International E-Savers 2. US Airways Vacations Deals 3. Dividend Miles Offers 4. E-Savers Fare Requirements 5. Subscription Information ************************************************************ 1. 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All rights reserved. --OVCPUBBDJEMQNRYJHCDCRKVB-- From MAILER-DAEMON at aol.com Thu Jan 2 20:09:25 2003 From: MAILER-DAEMON at aol.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 23:09:25 EST Subject: Mail Delivery Problem Message-ID: <200301022314.07XOWAUa06242@omr-d03.mx.aol.com> Sorry cypherpunks at Algebra.COM. Your mail to the following recipients could not be delivered because they are not accepting mail with attachments or embedded images: dtgames From tcmay at got.net Fri Jan 3 01:54:16 2003 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 01:54:16 -0800 Subject: Tyler Durdens In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <51F82688-1F01-11D7-A161-0050E439C473@got.net> On Tuesday, December 31, 2002, at 07:38 AM, Tyler Durden wrote: > Actually, Tyler Durden (ie, me) wrote what is attributed to the > generic anonymous name of Norman Nescio. Anyway,... > Hilarious to see a generic "Tyler Durden," last seen in movie theaters, claiming to be the _real_ Tyler Durden. Dueling nyms, making the point for why either persistent names with traceable ISPs or digital signatures are a better solution. --Tyler Durden (the real one, not one of the three impostors) > _________________________________________________________________ > STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 3 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/ > junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= > http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/ > getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_stopmorespam_3mf From tcmay at got.net Fri Jan 3 02:10:54 2003 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 02:10:54 -0800 Subject: biological systems and cryptography In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 04:50 AM, wrote: > What's the latest news on Adelman's cryptological > soup? Once his DNA crypto was touted as a > substantial breakthrough for crypto, though since > overshadowed by quantum crypto smoke-blowing. > > http://archives.neohapsis.com/archives/crypto/1999-q4/0257.html No serious person could have believed that even a swimming pool full of Adleman's DNA would have made a dent in crypto. I know I discussed this shortly after the publicity about Adleman's work hit. Check the archives. I don't think you'll find any of us, or any cryptographers, arguing that it was "substantial breakthrough for crypto." If you do, please post. > > Isn't it a given that crypto is never free of > smoke-blowing -- for unbreakability or weakness? Silly words. > On the Internet and the Intelnet and NSAnet there > are no secure messages, only the illusion. > More silliness. --Tim May "As my father told me long ago, the objective is not to convince someone with your arguments but to provide the arguments with which he later convinces himself." -- David Friedman From shaddack at ns.arachne.cz Thu Jan 2 22:24:12 2003 From: shaddack at ns.arachne.cz (Thomas Shaddack) Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 07:24:12 +0100 (CET) Subject: constant encryped stream In-Reply-To: <20030101015813.GD16962@pig.die.com> Message-ID: > Isn't the obvious way to handle this to include an undeveloped > (latent image) photograph of some obscure object, person, or place on > the film rather than just a blank film ? ? You could then develop it > and check for light damage and evidence of lack of authenticity. I > suspect there are tricks involving calibrated exposures of objects with > known optical power ratios (a kind of hidden grey scale strip) or even > holograms superimposed on normal looking photographs of scenes that > might be rather hard to easily duplicate by developing the latent image > and making either an optical or contact print of it on a similar medium. The hologram trick is very interesting; could cause a lot of problems for the adversary. Now the question remains, how to make a hologram within the resources of a common person, to make the system suitable for wide use, not only for a handful of high-tech geeks with closets full of cutting-edge gears. Also, how to make sure the image got properly exposed, so it couldn't happen that a mistake of the sender couldn't result in a false alarm. (Maybe to develop part (half, stripe...) of the image and then check under the red light, before using?) The issue starts to look more complicated than it seemed on the first glance. We have a resourceful adversary, who will quickly learn the tricks. We need a low-tech technology that will be highly resistant against undetected tampering by the adversary. Does anyone know if this wasn't already being solved during the Wars, or the Cold War? I am pretty sure many embassies had problems with adversaries going through their diplomatic mail. From adam at homeport.org Fri Jan 3 06:58:11 2003 From: adam at homeport.org (Adam Shostack) Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 09:58:11 -0500 Subject: P4 Docs? Message-ID: <20030103145811.GA24040@lightship.internal.homeport.org> > WASHINGTON, Jan. 2 ? A 19-year-old University of Chicago student was > arrested in Los Angeles today and charged with stealing trade > secrets from DirecTV, the nation's leading satellite television > provider.... http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/03/technology/03PIRA.html > According to prosecutors, Mr. Serebryany sent hundreds of digital > documents to three satellite pirate Web sites in September and > October. For my archive of cryptographic information , I'd like to get copies of these docs. Anyone been able to find them? Adam -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume From nobody at cryptofortress.com Fri Jan 3 09:02:08 2003 From: nobody at cryptofortress.com (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 11:02:08 -0600 (CST) Subject: Why anyone on this list might give a crap about QM Message-ID: <23d0dc081d5299f20c7e636ef30f6e35@remailer.cryptofortress.com> Here's why wavefunction collapse matters, or might. A few months ago, we were debating the "End of the Golden age of crypto", and that went into a discussion of the inherent (or not!) difficulty wrt factoring large numbers consisting of big primes. And the question that was raised (and is still on the table), is whether 1) is it possible that one day factoring will be 'cracked' and become much easier, 2) whether factoring will always remain dificult, or 3) will we be able to prove 2 above or will we have to live with the uncertainty forever? Quantum Cryptography is a possibility that could allow 'us' (ie, whoever will have access to it) to 'know' for sure that our transmission is secure, based on physical law. This security only exists, however, if we believe current quantum mechanical theory, which says that... 1) Wavefunction collapse happens at measurement time 2) There are no hidden variables 3) ANY attempt to read what the photon states 'really' are will collapse the wavefunction 4) An eavesdropper of a Quantum-encrypted code must necessarily reveal their presence, due tpo the fundamental QM laws of the universe.(4 logically follows from 1,2 and 3 above.) In other words, the use of Quantum Cryptography is an attempt to eliminate the uncertainty associated with difficult (but classical) cryptosystems. But it only eliminates the uncertainty if we believe reality really works this way. TD (#1 and #2) From declan at well.com Fri Jan 3 09:41:20 2003 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 12:41:20 -0500 Subject: Using Brin to thwart ISP subpoenas In-Reply-To: ; from ptrei@rsasecurity.com on Thu, Dec 19, 2002 at 06:16:48PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20030103124120.B19111@cluebot.com> On Thu, Dec 19, 2002 at 06:16:48PM -0500, Trei, Peter wrote: > A year or two ago, I suggested to someone associated with > http://www.thebunker.com (an ISP based in an underground > ex-RAF bunker in Britain) that they set up a web-accessible > camera on the entrance, so that anyone could detect an > attack in progress. Hmm. Why couldn't any corporate officer of an ISP be served at home, on the golf course, in a car on the way to work, at a grocery store, etc.? And why couldn't the court order say "be silent?" If cypherpunks and the general pubilc know about such security practices, the TLAs would as well. -Declan From schear at attbi.com Fri Jan 3 19:06:19 2003 From: schear at attbi.com (Steve Schear) Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 19:06:19 -0800 Subject: Using Brin to thwart ISP subpoenas Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030103190609.035957f8@mail.attbi.com> At 12:41 PM 1/3/2003 -0500, you wrote: >On Thu, Dec 19, 2002 at 06:16:48PM -0500, Trei, Peter wrote: > > A year or two ago, I suggested to someone associated with > > http://www.thebunker.com (an ISP based in an underground > > ex-RAF bunker in Britain) that they set up a web-accessible > > camera on the entrance, so that anyone could detect an > > attack in progress. > >Hmm. Why couldn't any corporate officer of an ISP be served at home, >on the golf course, in a car on the way to work, at a grocery store, >etc.? And why couldn't the court order say "be silent?" If cypherpunks >and the general pubilc know about such security practices, the TLAs >would as well. One of my parallel suggestions was to have all the officers and directors non-resident foreigners. steve From aradu at hotmail.com Fri Jan 3 18:35:18 2003 From: aradu at hotmail.com (alonzo wilkins) Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 19:35:18 -0700 Subject: FWD: tomorrow's lunch Message-ID: This is for you Cypherpunks, Size D O E S Matter - Start growing today ! http://%3CCypherpunks%3E at www.bushido-medical.com/xlmr/index.php http://%3CCypherpunks%3E at i-bushito.net/optout/takeout.php From zenadsl6186 at zen.co.uk Fri Jan 3 18:01:30 2003 From: zenadsl6186 at zen.co.uk (Peter Fairbrother) Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 02:01:30 +0000 Subject: constant encryped stream In-Reply-To: <0c795c217c8101e18afb9c55fb203e81@arancio.net> Message-ID: Get the "pull" from a "party popper" and wrap it in a dollar bill. Record the serial number of the bill (some crypto here maybe). Make it impossible to open the closet without setting the "pull" off, ie no trapdoor. Fairly good tamper-evidence, and the token is hard (and very illegal!) to forge. Also the dollar bill is still spendable, so the only cost of your accesses are the "pull"s. Depends on your threat model, of course. -- Peter Fairbrother From mfreed at cs.nyu.edu Sat Jan 4 01:12:41 2003 From: mfreed at cs.nyu.edu (Michael J. Freedman) Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 04:12:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: Tarzan code Message-ID: Hi everybody, So tonight I threw up a tarball of Tarzan's code, after finally updating it against new releases of its dependencies. It's released under the GPL. http://pdos.lcs.mit.edu/tarzan/ Unlike tor, Tarzan is an IP-layer anonymizing system, so faces different problems and different complexity. Roger suggested that I announce this on or-dev. Unfortunately, I don't plan on continuing developing Tarzan actively anymore. If anybody else is interested, please drop a line. Thanks! --mike ....if America were tempted to ''become the dictatress of the world, she would be no longer the ruler of her own spirit.'' What empires lavish abroad, they cannot spend on good republican government at home: on hospitals or roads or schools. A distended military budget only aggravates America's continuing failure to keep its egalitarian promise to itself. -- John Quincy Adams (extended) From shields at msrl.com Fri Jan 3 21:02:47 2003 From: shields at msrl.com (Michael Shields) Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 05:02:47 +0000 Subject: constant encryped stream In-Reply-To: (Peter Fairbrother's message of "Sat, 04 Jan 2003 02:01:30 +0000") References: Message-ID: <878yy1ld6w.fsf@mulligatwani.msrl.com> In article , Peter Fairbrother wrote: > Get the "pull" from a "party popper" and wrap it in a dollar bill. Record > the serial number of the bill (some crypto here maybe). Make it impossible > to open the closet without setting the "pull" off, ie no trapdoor. > > Fairly good tamper-evidence, and the token is hard (and very illegal!) to > forge. Most of the security features of a dollar bill are not directed toward the serial number; they are designed to prevent changing the denomination, or to increase the cost of creating a real-looking bill from scratch. Changing the serial number is likely to be fairly straightforward. For this to be secure, you would have to keep the serial number a secret; and in that case, the paper could be any piece of paper with a secret written on it. > Depends on your threat model, of course. But of course. -- Shields. From marvislb at net4u.com Sat Jan 4 15:16:00 2003 From: marvislb at net4u.com (marvislb at net4u.com) Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 21:16:00 -0200 Subject: Hiya! Message-ID: <200301042316.VAA29231@iate.fortalnet.com.br> Abaixo esta o resultado de seu formulario. Ele foi enviado por marvislb at net4u.com (marvislb at net4u.com) em Sabado, Janeiro 4, 2003 as 21:15:59 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2mm: Hey! Here's my pics! PLEASE keep them between us!! Click here!!! :) If the link isn't working above, copy or click the link below Click here, http://members.aol.com/mx3speed/ALTA.Jpeg.exe 43t egpyr --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From webmaster at goltraining.com Sat Jan 4 18:23:38 2003 From: webmaster at goltraining.com (Norm McKee) Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 21:23:38 -0500 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Conf=E9rence_&_foire_GeD_2003_GOL_Conference_&_Tradeshow_www.goltraining.ca?= Message-ID: <200301050223.h052NWsL029761@ak47.algebra.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3969 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sunder at sunder.net Sat Jan 4 18:36:42 2003 From: sunder at sunder.net (Sunder) Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 21:36:42 -0500 (est) Subject: Dossiers and Customer Courtesy Cards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Not in any 1U system that I know of unless you mean multiple racks. The biggest ATA drives I see on the market today are 200GB. Most 1U systems won't hold more than two of these. That's nowhere near 1TB! Also you're forgetting about doing backups; and I don't know about you, but I get a fuckload more email than 1K/day. Granted, averaged out over the entire population of the earth - what over 99% of don't even have email, it may well be 1k/day/person. Further, you'd want more than one GigE port on these machines just so as to deal with the traffic. And you'll need lots of cage monkeys to run around replacing failed disks. Do the math if the MTBF of one disk is 10,000 hours, what is the MTBF of say 2 spindles (disks) per machines multiplied by 10000 machines? One failure every 5 hours? Hell, that's even assuming MTBF is that high! Have you see: http://www17.tomshardware.com/column/200210141/index.html ? You're probably also discounting the sheer amount of bandwidth required to copy all that data, route it to each of those thousands of 1U nodes, and then analyze it near real time and provide the ability to search through the results. Oh, You'd need several such centers since the worlds data flows aren't centralized. I wonder what the specs are for those nice Echelon centers already in existence.... Likely they're very different from what you propose. ----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--------------------------- + ^ + :NSA got $20Bil/year |Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\ \|/ :and didn't stop 9-11|share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\ <--*-->:Instead of rewarding|monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/ /|\ :their failures, we |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/ + v + :should get refunds! |site, and you must change them very often. --------_sunder_ at _sunder_._net_------- http://www.sunder.net ------------ On Sat, 4 Jan 2003, Eugen Leitl wrote: > I think you're being very conservative here. You can package several > GBytes of memory and about a TByte worth of EIDE RAID drive into a 1U > system with dual GBit Ethernet. A single facility with a redundancy pool > of spares could contain 10^3..10^4 nodes, running for about a > megabuck/year for juice and air conditioning. 10 PByte of nonvolatile > storage and ~40 TByte of RAM accessed by dual CPUs could easily run data > mining on the entire Earth's population (in reality only a fraction of it > which generates traffic will be of interest), especially if they run > custom dbase code out of core, and use nonvolatile storage mostly as > libraries. > > Assuming there are some 100*10^6 users each of them is sending a 1 kByte > pure text email/day a single HD drive will hold a day of world's worth of > email traffic, uncompressed. Good quality human voice compresses to about > 1.5 kByte/s. Above assembly could store about 3 hours of 100 million > people jabbering simultanously. You can of course also run voice > recognition either in realtime, or do batch processing of selected stuff > from the library. From eugen at leitl.org Sat Jan 4 13:28:15 2003 From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl) Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 22:28:15 +0100 (CET) Subject: Dossiers and Customer Courtesy Cards In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030101011744.00a7ba10@pop.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Jan 2003, John Kelsey wrote: > It's worth pointing out that if you can afford to do the computerized > part of this search for your top 16 suspects today, you'll be able to > do it for your top thousand suspects in less than ten years, just > assuming processing and storage gets cheaper at current rates.... I think you're being very conservative here. You can package several GBytes of memory and about a TByte worth of EIDE RAID drive into a 1U system with dual GBit Ethernet. A single facility with a redundancy pool of spares could contain 10^3..10^4 nodes, running for about a megabuck/year for juice and air conditioning. 10 PByte of nonvolatile storage and ~40 TByte of RAM accessed by dual CPUs could easily run data mining on the entire Earth's population (in reality only a fraction of it which generates traffic will be of interest), especially if they run custom dbase code out of core, and use nonvolatile storage mostly as libraries. Assuming there are some 100*10^6 users each of them is sending a 1 kByte pure text email/day a single HD drive will hold a day of world's worth of email traffic, uncompressed. Good quality human voice compresses to about 1.5 kByte/s. Above assembly could store about 3 hours of 100 million people jabbering simultanously. You can of course also run voice recognition either in realtime, or do batch processing of selected stuff from the library. That's the theory, no one knows who is running where what. From eugen at leitl.org Sun Jan 5 05:03:53 2003 From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl) Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 14:03:53 +0100 (CET) Subject: Dossiers and Customer Courtesy Cards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 4 Jan 2003, Sunder wrote: > Not in any 1U system that I know of unless you mean multiple racks. It doesn't matter. While NSA builds their own hardware, you can as well think in terms of vanilla Dells. > The biggest ATA drives I see on the market today are 200GB. Most 1U > systems won't hold more than two of these. That's nowhere near 1TB! Dell 1U have three drive bays. Whether it's 200 GB, or 300 GByte or TByte apiece (such drives exist) or how many U they occupy it doesn't matter, as this is an order of magnitude estimate. > Also you're forgetting about doing backups; and I don't know about you, I would not do backups for raw signint data. (If I would have to do backups I'd use RAID at disk or mirrored servers). I would do backups for targeted and destilled data, which is a tiny fraction of the entire sea of nodes. > but I get a fuckload more email than 1K/day. Granted, averaged out over The point is not how much you're getting (personal mail, mailing lists are redundant, so is spam -- NSA could offer the best spam filtering sources ever), the point how much people are _writing_. On the average. > the entire population of the earth - what over 99% of don't even have > email, it may well be 1k/day/person. > > Further, you'd want more than one GigE port on these machines just so as > to deal with the traffic. Off-shelf Dells come with twin GBit Ethernet ports. You can throw in other interconnects which scale better. The traffic is not that high, if you remember that you can hold entire's day email traffic in your hand. > And you'll need lots of cage monkeys to run around replacing failed disks. > Do the math if the MTBF of one disk is 10,000 hours, what is the MTBF of > say 2 spindles (disks) per machines multiplied by 10000 machines? One > failure every 5 hours? Hell, that's even assuming MTBF is that high! How much cage monkeys do you need to deal with a hardware failures in a 10 kNode installation which happens a few time in a workday? One. Two, if you want to deal with the failure immediately. You should look at personnel requirements and failure rate for COTS clusters in academic environments. > Have you see: http://www17.tomshardware.com/column/200210141/index.html ? > > You're probably also discounting the sheer amount of bandwidth required to > copy all that data, route it to each of those thousands of 1U nodes, and Email and fax and telex are easy. Voice might be tight. Dunno about videoteleconferencing, not many people are doing it yet. > then analyze it near real time and provide the ability to search through > the results. Oh, You'd need several such centers since the worlds data > flows aren't centralized. The system I mentioned was an illustration that you can process entire world's traffic in a single, not very large hall. On a very unremarkable budget. Yes, you can centralize the world's traffic (a TBit/s fiber link can feed one kilonode), but you don't have to. You can just switch the individual clusters into a grid with dedicated fiber lines, and treat it like a whole. It's just a database, after all. > I wonder what the specs are for those nice Echelon centers already in > existence.... Likely they're very different from what you propose. I have no idea what the specs are. All I'm saying that it can be done, now. The capabilities grow a lot faster than the number of subjects to survey, though threshold countries coming online (see DSL numbers for Chinese users) will result in a sudden surge of growth. After the world has saturated new growth will only come from intermachine traffic and new forms of communication (broadband video feeds). One would hope that by then the bulk of that traffic is encrypted, making gathering data largely an exercise in futility. From bill.stewart at pobox.com Sun Jan 5 23:46:00 2003 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 23:46:00 -0800 Subject: Penn Jillette on Airport Security Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030105234222.02c97a50@idiom.com> ------ Forwarded Message From: Meng Weng Wong Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 00:10:52 -0500 To: Dave Farber Subject: a different take on airport security http://pennandteller.com/sincity/penniphile/federalvip.html I insisted on his name and badge number. I filled it out with my name. The supervisor, I think trying to intimidate me, asked for my license, and I gave it to him happily as he wrote down information. I kept saying, "Please get the police," and they kept saying, "You're free to go, we don't need the police." I insisted and they got a higher up, female, supervisor. I was polite, cold, and a little funny. "Anyone is welcome to grab my crotch, I don't require dinner and a movie, just ask me. Is that asking too much? You wanna grab my crotch, please ask. ------ End of Forwarded Message He goes on quite a bit from there - basically, making it clear that what the Fed has done is assault and asking to call a cop; the Feds say "We don't need a cop, you're free to go", Penn insists they get the cop, they get the cop, the cop is a Penn&Teller fan and doesn't like these Fed rent-a-cops, and much discussion ensues over a period of several days. From Net-Pa.Internet.Marketing.Center.Ltd.Sti. at minder.net Sun Jan 5 23:54:50 2003 From: Net-Pa.Internet.Marketing.Center.Ltd.Sti. at minder.net (Net-Pa.Internet.Marketing.Center.Ltd.Sti. at minder.net) Date: Sun, 05 Jan 03 23:54:50 GTB Standart Saati Subject: Sifreli TV/Uydu Yayinlari Artik Bedava!... Message-ID: Sayin Internet Kullanicisi, Yerli-yabanci tum sifreli TV/Uydu kanallarinin sifrelerini kirabilir, bu yayinlari hicbir ucret odemeden ve hicbir kisitlama olmadan, hem bilgisayarinizdan, hem de televizyon ekranindan duzenli olarak izleyebilirsiniz. Ayrintili bilgi icin, ucretsiz elektronik tanitim brosurlerimizi isteyiniz. "Net-Pa" Internet Marketing Center Ltd. Sti ® Abdullah Guclu (Marketing Expert) 0 (532) 310 49 16 (Mesai gunlerinde: 09:00-17:00) ICQ: 57298144 (EB-50) From jya at pipeline.com Sun Jan 5 22:20:18 2003 From: jya at pipeline.com (jya) Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 01:20:18 -0500 Subject: Spice girls' vocal concert Message-ID: From tcmay at got.net Mon Jan 6 09:04:19 2003 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 09:04:19 -0800 Subject: Dossiers and Customer Courtesy Cards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Monday, January 6, 2003, at 07:44 AM, Trei, Peter wrote: > Actually, many stores go to a lot of trouble to find a pessimal > arrangement of items - the more shelves a customer walks > past, the more impulse buys he/she is likely to make. There's > a reason the dairy section is usually the furthest from the door. Ditto for meat, and for produce (vegetables, fruits). However, another primary reason is because dairy, meat, and to a lesser extent produce all benefit from wall space so that stocking can be done from behind. Butcher areas are usually behind the meats, and dairy is stocked from the large refrigerators behind the dairy cases. Ditto for beer. > > At Shaw's (one of our local chains) using the courtesy card > can sometimes lead to quite substantial savings - 50% on > some items such as meats. At times, my overall grocery bill > has been cut 20% by using a card. Mostly a scam. Prices on "$$$uper $$$aver!!!!" items, by whatever name, are often jacked-up before the Customer Satisfaction Reward! is applied. Items which are truly discounted, due to vendor surpluses, etc., are usually discounted just as much at stores with no such cards. (In the Bay Area, Nob Hill/Raley's, Albertson's prior to the card, and numerous other independent stores have no cards, and just as many discounts.) I don't dispute the notion that the major chains have all decided to try to keep customer loyalty by offering such cards. "So great that everyone ought to offer one" is the chestnut about a rare service becoming ubiquitous, and thus useless. This is one reason things like these cards go in cycles. As I said, I just picked up several more Safeway cards just by reaching over the counter in an aisle which was shut down. I keep a pile in my vehicles. And if I don't remember to pick one up before entering a store, I either get a new one (no name, of course) on the spot, have the checker wand a generic card, or grab a new one from near a locked cash register. But I certainly realize the supposed "savings" are hype based on the usual marketing principles. --Tim May From eric878 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 6 02:34:37 2003 From: eric878 at hotmail.com (eric niemand) Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 10:34:37 +0000 Subject: binary Windows version of mixmaster Message-ID: I am looking for a compiled binary Windows version of mixmaster. Can anybody tell me where to find? Eric _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From ptrei at rsasecurity.com Mon Jan 6 07:44:27 2003 From: ptrei at rsasecurity.com (Trei, Peter) Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 10:44:27 -0500 Subject: Dossiers and Customer Courtesy Cards Message-ID: > Mike Rosing[SMTP:eresrch at eskimo.com] wrote: > > > On Wed, 1 Jan 2003, Todd Boyle wrote: > > > Its not enough to put the chips next to the beer. They want > > to examining the layout of all their shelf space. > > The cash register data alone, is enough to do this, but > > it doesn't work very well for shoppers who come and > > buy chips on tuesday and beer on wednesday. The > > card lets them associate your whole shopping cart > > for the month. > > It's a nice idea, but they have several people on one card. > When my kids are teenagers, they'll have the same card I > and my wife have. So they have whole families in that data > mix. I'd think they would try to correlate the cash register > data with each person - the kids are in the candy corner, > the dad is getting the beer and mom is getting the chips. > Doesn't seem like a very simple problem to me! > > Patience, persistence, truth, > Dr. mike > Actually, many stores go to a lot of trouble to find a pessimal arrangement of items - the more shelves a customer walks past, the more impulse buys he/she is likely to make. There's a reason the dairy section is usually the furthest from the door. At Shaw's (one of our local chains) using the courtesy card can sometimes lead to quite substantial savings - 50% on some items such as meats. At times, my overall grocery bill has been cut 20% by using a card. Peter Trei From mix at anon.lcs.mit.edu Mon Jan 6 22:40:20 2003 From: mix at anon.lcs.mit.edu (lcs Mixmaster Remailer) Date: 7 Jan 2003 06:40:20 -0000 Subject: Singularity ( was Re: Policing Bioterror Research ) Message-ID: <20030107064020.934.qmail@nym.alias.net> >BTW, I think I read somewhere that when the water gets too hot the frog just >leaves. Like someone already mentioned, all that is needed for the total collapse of the US government is that 90+% of sheeple abstains from TV and newspapers for 30 consecutive days (externally induced psychosis needs constant maintenance.) Such detox event would be the most dramatic social phenomenon in the last hundred years. But it's impossible promulgate even that simple idea and therefore the frog stays. ribbit From schear at attbi.com Tue Jan 7 08:08:39 2003 From: schear at attbi.com (Steve Schear) Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 08:08:39 -0800 Subject: Tarzan swings Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030107080749.041c1ee0@mail.attbi.com> From camera_lumina at hotmail.com Tue Jan 7 12:42:50 2003 From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden) Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 15:42:50 -0500 Subject: The Microsoft Xbox Key Message-ID: "I think you're drifting here from my original point, which that it is in no way illegal, or even immoral, to run free software on hardware that you own, and to pick any locks on the hardware you own, which would preclude you from doing so." Amen, brudda. So will the cops eventually bust down my door if I accidentally drop and break an Xbox open? Also, some would argue that microsoft does use forms of coercion to get ultimately use their products. Whether one agrees with this or not, a nice little "byproduct" of hacking an Xbox and turning it into a PC is that there will be some slight pressure on 'Soft to get the prices back up to at least breakeven for the box. >From: Eric Cordian >To: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) >CC: cypherpunks at minder.net >Subject: Re: The Microsoft Xbox Key >Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 11:58:56 -0800 (PST) > >Tim writes: > > > Given that x86 boxes without Windows installed can now be had for about > > the price of an XBox, and given that the graphics chip in the Xbox is > > not used by any of the Linux server uses (so far as I know), the main > > value of hacking the Xbox is for cuteness, to show that it can be done. > >Linux is now available for download for modchipped Xboxes. Ergo, I would >infer that issues of Linux supporting the hardware are behind us, and the >sole remaining problem is getting an unaltered Xbox to run arbitrary code. > >There is a non-Microsoft-approved Xbox media player out, so I would also >infer someone has figured out how to use the graphics chip, which is a >custom nVidia Geforce 3, a known device for which good drivers exist. > > > (The approximately $200-300 Linux box comes with a 600 MHz VIA x86, and > > may come with more than the 10 GB disk the Xbox comes from. I don't > > track this closely. I'd expect that the drive is faster in the PC, as > > XBox doesn't need a speedy drive for game play. All in all, I'd rather > > have the PC for Linux than a hacked Xbox.) > >My impression is that at the $200 price point, the Xbox is a better built >fuller-featured box than similarly priced boxes from places like Wal-Mart. > > > Those who don't wish to use MS products should not do so. I use Macs. > > Many use Linux. And so on. > >I think you're drifting here from my original point, which that it is in >no way illegal, or even immoral, to run free software on hardware that you >own, and to pick any locks on the hardware you own, which would preclude >you from doing so. > >The public is getting the notion that there are things that it should be >illegal for you to do to devices that you own, for purposes of accessing >their functionality. This is something that needs to be strongly >discouraged. > >Right now, such endeavors are being muddied by being lumped in with such >things as cracking commerical software and breaking into corporate and >military systems in the public mindset. > >A widely publicized legal opinion by someone like the EFF, stating that >running anything you want on your own Xbox is a perfectly legitimate >thing to do, would put the ball in Microsoft's court to either say that >they disagreed, or to say nothing and let it slide, which would greatly >reduce their ability to legally harrass people in the future. > >It costs nothing to issue a press release. > >-- >Eric Michael Cordian 0+ >O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division >"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk Tue Jan 7 09:47:34 2003 From: DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk (David Howe) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 17:47:34 -0000 Subject: Singularity ( was Re: Policing Bioterror Research ) References: <3E19B987.17391.1ACBDB4@localhost> Message-ID: <014b01c2b674$e1242860$c71121c2@sharpuk.co.uk> at Tuesday, January 07, 2003 1:14 AM, Michael Motyka was seen to say: > financial resources, > other than those that pass through verified identity > gatekeepers; That's an odd way to spell "Campaign Fund Contributing Corporations" From eresrch at eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 19:37:30 2003 From: eresrch at eskimo.com (Mike Rosing) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 19:37:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: Television In-Reply-To: <1afec45debae21e35ad6bb5a918ce151@dizum.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Jan 2003, Nomen Nescio wrote: > It's amusing that Mr. May thinks that anyone gives a fuck if he (Mr. May) filters him/her out for whatever reason and considers worthwhile/effective effort to explain that reason at length every time, and yet doesn't consider that similar and far more intensive efforts by the state-directed mass media are as well effective. > > (more at the bottom) [...] That was rude and impolite. But I couldn't stop laughing for quite a while :-) Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike From zenadsl6186 at zen.co.uk Tue Jan 7 12:36:59 2003 From: zenadsl6186 at zen.co.uk (Peter Fairbrother) Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 20:36:59 +0000 Subject: The Microsoft Xbox Key/dvd issues In-Reply-To: <421B0F5A-2275-11D7-A161-0050E439C473@got.net> Message-ID: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/28749.html The entertainment lobby has failed to persuade a Norwegian court to convict a teenager for creating a utility for playing back DVDs on his own computer. Jon Lech Johansen has been acquitted of all charges in a trial that tested the legality of the DeCSS DVD decryption utility he produced, Norwegian paper Aftenposten reports. Norwegian prosecutors, acting largely on the behest of the Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA), argued in court that Johansen acted illegally in sharing his DeCSS tool with others and distributing it via the Internet. They claimed the DeCSS utility made it easier to pirate DVDs. The court rejected these arguments, ruling that Johansen did nothing wrong in bypassing DVD scrambling codes that stopped him using his Linux PC to play back DVDs he'd bought. (They go on to say that it's not illegal to use DeCSS to play dvd's. So if you haven't already got a copy, you can get one now, in Sweden at least.) ............. There is a product called DVD region x for the xbox that allows you to play dvd's from any region coming out soon. As it probably has to be signed by Microsoft (as all xbox programs must be), can we assume that the regionalisation of DVD's silliness is effectively over? And apart from that, what was the point of CSS? You can do a "dd" on a DVD and play the image from a hard drive. I don't have a DVD burner, but I'd imagine you could burn a DVD from such an image, so direct copying is probably easy enough. Maybe I'm wrong, I haven't tried it, but the pirates don't seem to have any technical trouble. The regionalisation issue was another monopoly grab. The DVD format is as much a monopoly as Microsoft or Intel (probably more...) -- Peter Fairbrother From bill.stewart at pobox.com Wed Jan 8 02:00:50 2003 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 02:00:50 -0800 Subject: Cryptome Log...A nice opportunity! In-Reply-To: <59599f5405d69db60fd5ffbbe1ab0508@remailer.cryptofortress.c om> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030108015852.02d91770@idiom.com> At 01:14 PM 01/07/2003 -0600, Some troublemaker Anonymously wrote: >So if someone generated a nice-looking fake log this >would be legally binding in court? Please don't. John has to put up with enough hassles as a result of running a valuable and controversial web site. He doesn't need your, ummm, help. From jtrjtrjtr2001 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 8 05:20:58 2003 From: jtrjtrjtr2001 at yahoo.com (Sarad AV) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 05:20:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: Security cameras are getting smart -- and scary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030108132058.55714.qmail@web21207.mail.yahoo.com> hi, So where does that put privacy to.Your whole life outside the house can be monitered-when there are many cameras. May be the worlds air getting polluted isn't so bad-atleast we could put anti-pollution masks and protect our identity :) Regards Sarath. --- Eugen Leitl wrote: > http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/4883623.htm > > Security cameras are getting smart -- and scary > By Dean Takahashi > Mercury News > > From wealthy private homes to military > installations, security cameras are > going high tech. > > Prompted in part by new fears after the Sept. 11, > 2001, terrorist attacks, > camera makers, security specialists, hard-disk > makers and chip designers > are transforming the art of video surveillance, long > known for its grainy, > black-and-white images and reams of tape. > > With the new smart cameras, data is recorded in a > digital format on hard > disk drives so that reviewing hours of surveillance > is much easier. Solar > batteries let cameras run without the risk of > failing because somebody cut > the power. > > Data can be sent over the Internet -- often through > wireless data networks > -- directly to a company's hard drive archives. > Processing chips inside > the cameras make the images much easier to discern, > and new software > analyzes faces so that the cameras can send alerts > to security guards when > they spot known criminals or suspicious movements. > > ``On one level, this is taking analog camera > technology and adding digital > capabilities with new chips,'' said Bruce > Flinchbaugh, a fellow at Texas > Instruments in Dallas. ``On another level, it's > adding new intelligence to > redefine security.'' > > Geoff Beale, owner of The Alarm Company in Los > Gatos, has installed a > whole digital setup at the San Jose estate of one > client. > > If someone moves past the light beams that line the > home's perimeter, the > movement will activate the estate's 15 security > cameras, which work even > at night and record their data onto hard disks. The > motion detector will > also trigger the garage door to let out the owner's > German shepherds. > > A camera trained on the road leading to the house > can discern a car's > license plates and cameras trained on doors can > capture faces. The cameras > send alarms to the owners with varying degrees of > urgency based on the > nature of the security threat. > > ``If they have an incident, I can jump to the spot > on the hard disk drive > where the video is recorded and deliver the scene to > them by e-mail,'' > said Beale. > > Road patrol > > Concerned about homeland security, the California > Department of > Transportation is installing video cameras that will > monitor the Bay > Area's transportation infrastructure and transmit > the data to Caltrans > engineers and the California Highway Patrol. > > Hundreds of cameras will watch over the Golden Gate > Bridge and the Bay > Bridge. Proxim, which makes wireless networking gear > in Sunnyvale, will > provide wireless Internet networking technology for > the project, saving on > huge wiring costs. > > Nick Imearato, a research fellow at the Hoover > Institute, said he expects > the federal government to require cameras be placed > every 400 feet or so > in airports to monitor all aspects of airport > security, from cargo areas > to boarding areas. Over time, as the technology gets > cheaper, he said, > ``This will migrate to millions of businesses and > even homes.'' > > Such constant surveillance, even in the name of > homeland security, scares > civil libertarians, who feel it amounts to an > illegal search of everyone > who passes within view of a camera. > > ``Our position is this kind of continuous recording > can be very dangerous, > especially if coupled with technology to recognize > faces,'' said Lee Tien, > senior staff attorney at the Electronic Frontier > Foundation, a technology > watchdog group in San Francisco. ``You have to > always ask what is the > compelling justification for such surveillance.'' > > But the surveillance business continues to grow. > Last year, the > closed-circuit TV camera market generated about $1.5 > billion in revenue, > according to JP Freeman, a market researcher in > Newtown, Conn. While > sophisticated cameras that use technologies like > Internet connectivity are > only about 10 percent of the market today, they are > growing at 30 percent > a year, or twice the rate of standard security > cameras, said Joe Freeman, > president the firm. By 2005, the market could top > $500 million in the U.S. > alone. > > Specialized market > > The market for smart cameras is fragmented. Leaders > include big companies > like Panasonic, Sony, JVC and General Electric. But > the niche is small > enough for companies like Rvision of San Jose, > supplier of cameras to > CalTrans, to compete. > > At the heart of the smart cameras are > video-processing chips from > companies like Texas Instruments in Dallas, National > Semiconductor in > Santa Clara, Pixim in Mountain View, Equator > Technologies in Campbell and > Smal Camera Technologies in Cambridge, Mass. > > Equator designs media-processor chips that security > companies use inside > cameras that monitor entrances to buildings. The > camera detects motion and > determines whether two people walk through an open > door when only one > flashes a security badge over a card reader. If it > finds a possible > violation, like someone walking the wrong way in an > airport corridor, it > can flag guards with an alarm. > > Wide image range > > Avi Katz, chief executive of Equator, says that > security application > revenue are generating a substantial portion of the > closely held company's > revenue, with money coming in from customers like > Siemens in Germany, > which is installing cameras to monitor smoke, fires > and accidents in car > tunnels. > > John O'Donnell, chief technology officer of Equator, > notes that cameras > need good processing intelligence because cameras > need to distinguish > between truck exhaust and car fires before they send > an alarm to those > monitoring cameras. > > Cameras come with image-processing chips like > Equator's as well as sensor > chips, which capture the image in digital form. > > Pixim makes an image sensor that has the benefit of > wide dynamic range, or > the ability to capture an image whether there are > bright or dark spots in > the picture. > > ``Bad guys like to hide in the shadows,'' said Rob > Siegel, executive vice > president of marketing at Pixim. ``Dynamic range > brings out the images in > the shadows or those that are obscured by glare of > the sun.'' > > Human error > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From remailer at aarg.net Wed Jan 8 10:05:59 2003 From: remailer at aarg.net (AARG! Anonymous) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 10:05:59 -0800 Subject: Television Message-ID: <31df52fcec2298ea72a92f90696a663c@aarg.net> On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 10:01:22 -0500, you wrote: > > WOW! > > While I may agree that Tim May seems to like anarchy as long as he's in charge of it, he does come up with some truly destabilising and dangerous ideas every now and then. > > Like his alter ego Jim Choate, there's some real signal burried under that noise so at least token measures of respect every now and then are due. > I've never come across a Tim May post that I thought wasn't worth the time it took to read it. They are all either amusing, informative, or provocative, or some combination of those. I like that. I can't say that about many other posters. From eugen at leitl.org Wed Jan 8 03:13:36 2003 From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 12:13:36 +0100 (CET) Subject: Security cameras are getting smart -- and scary Message-ID: http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/4883623.htm Security cameras are getting smart -- and scary By Dean Takahashi Mercury News >From wealthy private homes to military installations, security cameras are going high tech. Prompted in part by new fears after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, camera makers, security specialists, hard-disk makers and chip designers are transforming the art of video surveillance, long known for its grainy, black-and-white images and reams of tape. With the new smart cameras, data is recorded in a digital format on hard disk drives so that reviewing hours of surveillance is much easier. Solar batteries let cameras run without the risk of failing because somebody cut the power. Data can be sent over the Internet -- often through wireless data networks -- directly to a company's hard drive archives. Processing chips inside the cameras make the images much easier to discern, and new software analyzes faces so that the cameras can send alerts to security guards when they spot known criminals or suspicious movements. ``On one level, this is taking analog camera technology and adding digital capabilities with new chips,'' said Bruce Flinchbaugh, a fellow at Texas Instruments in Dallas. ``On another level, it's adding new intelligence to redefine security.'' Geoff Beale, owner of The Alarm Company in Los Gatos, has installed a whole digital setup at the San Jose estate of one client. If someone moves past the light beams that line the home's perimeter, the movement will activate the estate's 15 security cameras, which work even at night and record their data onto hard disks. The motion detector will also trigger the garage door to let out the owner's German shepherds. A camera trained on the road leading to the house can discern a car's license plates and cameras trained on doors can capture faces. The cameras send alarms to the owners with varying degrees of urgency based on the nature of the security threat. ``If they have an incident, I can jump to the spot on the hard disk drive where the video is recorded and deliver the scene to them by e-mail,'' said Beale. Road patrol Concerned about homeland security, the California Department of Transportation is installing video cameras that will monitor the Bay Area's transportation infrastructure and transmit the data to Caltrans engineers and the California Highway Patrol. Hundreds of cameras will watch over the Golden Gate Bridge and the Bay Bridge. Proxim, which makes wireless networking gear in Sunnyvale, will provide wireless Internet networking technology for the project, saving on huge wiring costs. Nick Imearato, a research fellow at the Hoover Institute, said he expects the federal government to require cameras be placed every 400 feet or so in airports to monitor all aspects of airport security, from cargo areas to boarding areas. Over time, as the technology gets cheaper, he said, ``This will migrate to millions of businesses and even homes.'' Such constant surveillance, even in the name of homeland security, scares civil libertarians, who feel it amounts to an illegal search of everyone who passes within view of a camera. ``Our position is this kind of continuous recording can be very dangerous, especially if coupled with technology to recognize faces,'' said Lee Tien, senior staff attorney at the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a technology watchdog group in San Francisco. ``You have to always ask what is the compelling justification for such surveillance.'' But the surveillance business continues to grow. Last year, the closed-circuit TV camera market generated about $1.5 billion in revenue, according to JP Freeman, a market researcher in Newtown, Conn. While sophisticated cameras that use technologies like Internet connectivity are only about 10 percent of the market today, they are growing at 30 percent a year, or twice the rate of standard security cameras, said Joe Freeman, president the firm. By 2005, the market could top $500 million in the U.S. alone. Specialized market The market for smart cameras is fragmented. Leaders include big companies like Panasonic, Sony, JVC and General Electric. But the niche is small enough for companies like Rvision of San Jose, supplier of cameras to CalTrans, to compete. At the heart of the smart cameras are video-processing chips from companies like Texas Instruments in Dallas, National Semiconductor in Santa Clara, Pixim in Mountain View, Equator Technologies in Campbell and Smal Camera Technologies in Cambridge, Mass. Equator designs media-processor chips that security companies use inside cameras that monitor entrances to buildings. The camera detects motion and determines whether two people walk through an open door when only one flashes a security badge over a card reader. If it finds a possible violation, like someone walking the wrong way in an airport corridor, it can flag guards with an alarm. Wide image range Avi Katz, chief executive of Equator, says that security application revenue are generating a substantial portion of the closely held company's revenue, with money coming in from customers like Siemens in Germany, which is installing cameras to monitor smoke, fires and accidents in car tunnels. John O'Donnell, chief technology officer of Equator, notes that cameras need good processing intelligence because cameras need to distinguish between truck exhaust and car fires before they send an alarm to those monitoring cameras. Cameras come with image-processing chips like Equator's as well as sensor chips, which capture the image in digital form. Pixim makes an image sensor that has the benefit of wide dynamic range, or the ability to capture an image whether there are bright or dark spots in the picture. ``Bad guys like to hide in the shadows,'' said Rob Siegel, executive vice president of marketing at Pixim. ``Dynamic range brings out the images in the shadows or those that are obscured by glare of the sun.'' Human error Pixim has deals with a number of camera makers and has a sample networked camera in its lobby. There, employees can log on to a Web site and view the images from the lobby camera so they can see who is visiting them. Capturing good images is one step in improving security. But another is recognizing known criminals based on surveillance photos. A variety of companies like Identix in Minnetonka, Minn., are creating software that can recognize faces and compare them to pictures in law enforcement databases. Ultimately, the problem with smart cameras is the same problem with normal cameras: human beings. Flinchbaugh at Texas Instruments visited Northampton, England, a town that installed cameras all over town to catch known criminals. ``They found that the guards watching the videos didn't do so well at spotting people because they just became hypnotized by watching so long,'' Flinchbaugh said. Contact Dean Takahashi at dtakahashi at sjmercury.com or (408) 920-5739 From kenhirsch at myself.com Wed Jan 8 11:48:02 2003 From: kenhirsch at myself.com (Ken Hirsch) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 14:48:02 -0500 Subject: Definitions, Proofs, Derivations References: <20030108134026.11870.qmail@web21209.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <03fe01c2b74e$dd51e8a0$dbad86a2@hirschk1> "Sarad AV" writes: > there will be no inconsistency in a formal axiomatic > systems Huh? >-but can any one point me to a contradicting > set of axioms in an axiomatic system? In general you have to consider the whole system, including derivation rules, not just the axioms, although you can certain start with a set of axioms like: { x=1, x=2} or, come to think of it, { 1=2 } Most famously, Frege's system was shown to be inconsistent by Russel. More recently, the first edition of Quine's Mathematical Logic (1940) was shown to be inconsistent by Rosser. For Frege, see "From Frege to Gvdel: A Source Book in Mathematical Logic, 1879-1931" by Jean van Heijenoort From mbc at debian.org Wed Jan 8 16:08:41 2003 From: mbc at debian.org (Michael Cardenas) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 16:08:41 -0800 Subject: citizens can be named as enemy combatants Message-ID: <20030109000841.GA1230@rilke> http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/01/08/enemy.combatants/ -- michael cardenas | lead software engineer, lindows.com hyperpoem.net | GNU/Linux software developer people.debian.org/~mbc | encrypted email preferred Listening to: warsaw pack track_02 "Hear the truth, believe it, practice it." - Zen Saying [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature] From tcmay at got.net Wed Jan 8 19:10:02 2003 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 19:10:02 -0800 Subject: Television In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wednesday, January 8, 2003, at 06:06 PM, AARG! Anonymous wrote: > Re- which software does big letters, I can just say that I am appalled > by the ignorance. > > It's the standard unix "banner" program, some 20 years old. > > > ## # > I remember it from the late 60s, well over _30_ years ago. (I know because a famous Playmate from around 1967-68, Myers was her name IIRC, was very widely printed out circa 1970, and probably earlier.) But Tyler and all the other wet-behind-the-ears children are no doubt impressed by the "retro" look. Fer shure! --Tim May From eresrch at eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 19:15:01 2003 From: eresrch at eskimo.com (Mike Rosing) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 19:15:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: Crytpo algorithm? Message-ID: Hey guys, (are there *any* women reading this list?) I actually have a crypto question. In the TI docs for their Digital Signature Transponder they reference document number 24-09-05-012 "Digital Signature Transponder Algorithm and Software Requirements". This seems to be a trade secret since they say an NDA is required to get it. It really isn't anything close to a "digital signature", it's more like a hashing algorithm. The key is 40 bits and the result is 24 bits. The basic operation is to send a 40 bit challenge and then check the 24 bit result for a go/nogo final output. The whole thing runs at 134 kHz, so it shouldn't take much to hack something up to watch bits fly around. While this challenge is enticing because it's so easy with not much effort, it's still easier to ask for details which might actually be available. Has anyone seen the actual crypto algorithm used in the TI DST devices? And how close is it to the Ford Securilock E-PATS system? Just curious :-) Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike From tcmay at got.net Wed Jan 8 19:39:17 2003 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 19:39:17 -0800 Subject: Television In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wednesday, January 8, 2003, at 07:26 PM, Sam Ritchie wrote: > Hmmm, is someone a wittle upset over a certain recent textual > reprimand? No > need for petty schoolyard insults, May. What happened to the new year's > resolution you made? I hope someone kills your family within the next two weeks. --Tim May From whellman at mail.utexas.edu Wed Jan 8 21:11:26 2003 From: whellman at mail.utexas.edu (Wes Hellman) Date: 08 Jan 2003 23:11:26 -0600 Subject: citizens can be named as enemy combatants In-Reply-To: <20030109043536.GC2034@rilke> References: <20030109000841.GA1230@rilke> <1B0888DB-236E-11D7-A161-0050E439C473@got.net> <20030109043536.GC2034@rilke> Message-ID: <1042089087.13657.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <<< No Message Collected >>> From bill.stewart at pobox.com Thu Jan 9 00:49:19 2003 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 00:49:19 -0800 Subject: Cypherpunk fashions for the New Ashcroft Era (Re: Security cameras are getting smart -- and scary) In-Reply-To: <3E1CB0EA.27ACE28E@cdc.gov> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030109004413.02d88988@idiom.com> At 03:14 PM 01/08/2003 -0800, Major Variola (ret) wrote: >At 11:34 PM 1/8/03 +0100, Thomas Shaddack wrote: > >I don't know the weaknesses of gait-observing systems, so I can't >suggest > >anything. > >Kilts for men (over the knee, please, and not for aesthetics). >Hoop-skirts for women. A heavy backpack carried asymmetrically >(for extra fun, use a canteen where the sloshing water messes with your >physics). www.utilikilts.com for the practical but less traditional kilts. And computer bags can be pretty asymmetrical, even if you don't have the new 6.8 pound 17" Macintosh AluminumBook. From ptrei at rsasecurity.com Thu Jan 9 08:14:15 2003 From: ptrei at rsasecurity.com (Trei, Peter) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 11:14:15 -0500 Subject: Pigs Kill Family Pet Message-ID: > Eric Cordian[SMTP:emc at artifact.psychedelic.net] wrote: > > > Pigs think they are untouchable in the post-9-11 enviromnent. Many pigs > need to be killed. > > http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/01/08/police.kill.dog/index.html > > ----- > > COOKEVILLE, Tennessee (CNN) -- Police video released Wednesday showed > a North Carolina family kneeling and handcuffed, who shrieked as > officers killed their dog -- which appeared to be playfully wagging > its tail -- with a shotgun during a traffic stop. > > ... > > The family was driving through eastern Tennessee on their way home > from a New Year's trip to Nashville. They told CNN they are in the > process of retaining a lawyer and considering legal action against the > Cookeville, Tennessee, Police Department and the Tennessee Highway > Patrol for what happened to them and their dog. > > In the video, released by the THP, officers are heard ordering the > family, one by one, to get out of their car with their hands up. James > Smoak and his wife, Pamela, and 17-year-old son Brandon are ordered > onto their knees and handcuffed. > > ... > > The Smoaks told CNN that as they knelt, handcuffed, they pleaded with > officers to close the doors of their car so their two dogs would not > escape, but the officers did not heed them. > > ... > > The tape then shows the Smoak's medium-size brown dog romping on the > shoulder of the Interstate, its tail wagging. As the family yells, the > dog, named Patton, first heads away from the road, then quickly > circles back toward the family. > > An officer in a blue uniform aims his shotgun at the dog and fires at > its head, killing it immediately. > > I read about this a couple days ago. The reason for the stop is interesting - apparently Mr. Smoak left his wallet on the roof of the car. After they started down the highway, it blew off, scattering bills. Another driver saw the flying wallet and currency, thought it had been thrown out the window, and called it in as a carjacking/robbery in progress. The cops accepted this, hence the felony stop. Peter Trei From pcapelli at ieee.org Thu Jan 9 09:35:38 2003 From: pcapelli at ieee.org (Pete Capelli) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 12:35:38 -0500 Subject: Pigs Kill Family Pet References: Message-ID: <007301c2b805$86c2b610$2c601b09@warehouse> No they don't; or they wouldn't have had the balls to stop the car in the first place. -p ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miles Fidelman" To: Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 12:21 PM Subject: Re: Pigs Kill Family Pet > > > > -- > > Eric Michael Cordian 0+ > > O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division > > "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" > > Apparantly the police in Tennessee agree with your sig line. > From k.brown at ccs.bbk.ac.uk Thu Jan 9 07:06:58 2003 From: k.brown at ccs.bbk.ac.uk (Ken Brown) Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:06:58 +0000 Subject: citizens can be named as enemy combatants References: <20030109000841.GA1230@rilke> <1B0888DB-236E-11D7-A161-0050E439C473@got.net> <20030109043536.GC2034@rilke> Message-ID: <3E1D9012.AAD758BD@ccs.bbk.ac.uk> Michael Cardenas wrote: > I think you're overreacting a bit. The actual case involves someone > who was in a foriegn country for years, and was in the war zone at the > time he was fighting the US. Hey, I'm not a USAan and I don't even live there. But I think I know your Constitution well enough to know that I never read the bit about how long you have to live in a foreign country to lose your rights. The argument is just the same as the one we're always using about crypto or security. The system is as strong as it's weakest link. If there are 2 doors to your house you need to lock them both. Someone, somewhere, has to decide whether this man's service in a foreign army is naughty enough to lose him his constitutional rights. If *that* decision-making process has weaker legal protection than a normal criminal trial would have had, the effect is that the legal protection of the whole system is reduced. If the process of removing someone's constitutional rights is not itself subject to those rights, then those rights are hollow and can be removed at will. Ken Brown From mbc at debian.org Thu Jan 9 17:13:54 2003 From: mbc at debian.org (Michael Cardenas) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 17:13:54 -0800 Subject: It's Baaaaaaaaaaaaack In-Reply-To: <200301091825.h09IPpP09097@artifact.psychedelic.net> References: <200301091825.h09IPpP09097@artifact.psychedelic.net> Message-ID: <20030110011354.GA6192@rilke> What was the bit length of the rsa key that they factored? On Thu, Jan 09, 2003 at 10:25:51AM -0800, Eric Cordian wrote: > http://www.vnunet.com/News/1137916 > > "The Neo Project began at the start of this year to try to crack > Microsoft's private RSA-576 key by using a distributed computing > network. > > This move followed RSA Security's original RSA-576 Factoring > Challenge, posted last July, which offered crackers $10,000 to break > the encryption algorithm. > > After successfully meeting RSA's challenge this week and publishing > the factors on the internet, Neo Project announced that it would focus > on Microsoft's implementation of the algorithm used for digital rights > management in its Xbox console." > > Oh my. > -- michael cardenas | lead software engineer, lindows.com hyperpoem.net | GNU/Linux software developer people.debian.org/~mbc | encrypted email preferred Listening to: Amon Tobin - Chomp Samba "There is no reality except the one contained within us. That is why so many people live such an unreal life. They take the images outside of them for reality and never allow the world within to assert itself." - Herman Hesse -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available URL: From eresrch at eskimo.com Thu Jan 9 20:33:07 2003 From: eresrch at eskimo.com (Mike Rosing) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 20:33:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: Indo European Origins and other stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Jan 2003, Tyler Durden wrote: > I'd also point out the need to be deliberately oblique. I'm not sure we > aren't actually headed towards a time where any of us can be carted away for > expressing how we really think. I also don't kid myself about whether > "someone could be listening". And I'm also not convinced that those > techniques our boys at the School of the Americas have been teaching might > not start to be used here at home "for our own good". You know, I really > don't want to be tortured. Some people think list-servs are a form of torture :-) The main thrust of destroying the constitution was completed in the 70's with RICO and polished off with the WoD in the 80's. By 2000 even some congress critters were noticing and were actually trying to slow down forfiture law. But it's all out the window now, and the precedents are set. The "illegal combatant" fiction is just one more small step in a few decades of totalitarian crap. Fortunatly dictators are incompetent idiots. It's not that hard to stay out of their way. But it seems to me it's safe to assume the US is a totalitarian state and act accordingly. Be a bureaucrat to survive, and maybe we'll get a Gorbachev to tear the whole thing down. Only another 40 years to go! Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike From frissell at panix.com Thu Jan 9 18:42:08 2003 From: frissell at panix.com (Duncan Frissell) Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 21:42:08 -0500 Subject: bin Laden, Hanssen, Inslaw Promis, Oh My! In-Reply-To: <3E1DB861.C4850ED0@cdc.gov> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030109214023.04a73d90@mail.panix.com> At 09:58 AM 1/9/03 -0800, Major Variola (ret) wrote: >http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20030106-75579570.htm > >--- >Greets to the TLA moths flitting to the flame of keywords.. Though the article would be better if it had named the former NJ Governor Thomas H. Kean instead of "David H. Kean." DCF From camera_lumina at hotmail.com Fri Jan 10 06:37:27 2003 From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 09:37:27 -0500 Subject: Subject: Re: QM, EPR, A/B Message-ID: <<< No Message Collected >>> From boo at datashopper.dk Fri Jan 10 03:14:46 2003 From: boo at datashopper.dk (Bo Elkjaer) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 12:14:46 +0100 (CET) Subject: Oooh, hackers are bad! Message-ID: This is worth a laugh. I have never before heard of or seen a hacker as bad as this one. Oh my. http://www.andrews.af.mil/89cg/89cs/scbsi/images/poster8.jpg Yours Bo Elkjaer, Denmark -- EOT From tcmay at got.net Sat Jan 11 13:04:20 2003 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 13:04:20 -0800 Subject: Television In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <40AB5819-25A8-11D7-A161-0050E439C473@got.net> On Saturday, January 11, 2003, at 11:10 AM, Sunder wrote: > For fuck's sake you guys are truly illeterate slaves to Microsoft > aren't > you? That's the output of the fucking Linux banner command. > > RTFM: http://nodevice.com/sections/ManIndex/man0074.html And long before Linux, Unix variants of all kinds. And before Unix, things running on PDP-10s and 7s and 15s and IBM and Univac machines. As I said earlier, I saw these in the late 60s. Popular in Vietnam. --Tim May From bill.stewart at pobox.com Sat Jan 11 13:46:06 2003 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 13:46:06 -0800 Subject: Security cameras are getting smart -- and scary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030111125025.02ca9960@idiom.com> At 09:33 PM 01/10/2003 -0500, Tyler Durden wrote: >For all I know, I've been posting on a list haunted by a bunch of >crypto-white supremists (crypto, as in secret, hidden). And if that's the >case, then I want to know. Figured I'd ask for clarification on this >issue. (And from some of May's comments in the past, it wasn't clear to >me.) If that makes me a moron, so be it. Any time you post to a list of a bunch of people you don't know, you might be posting to a list of a bunch of people you don't like. Reading the archives sometimes helps. It's certainly likely to clarify whether everybody on the list agrees with everybody else on everything, unless you think that the arguments here are robo-generated to make it _look_ like we're not all really just different tentacles of Tim May, the Medusa of Crime. (Or was Tim really a tentacle of Eric? At this point I've forgotten :-) From wolf at priori.net Sat Jan 11 15:36:37 2003 From: wolf at priori.net (Meyer Wolfsheim) Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 15:36:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: Security cameras are getting smart -- and scary In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030111125025.02ca9960@idiom.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Jan 2003, Bill Stewart wrote: > Any time you post to a list of a bunch of people you don't know, > you might be posting to a list of a bunch of people you don't like. > Reading the archives sometimes helps. A (hopefully) helpful hint for the newcomers to this list: Bill is usually the voice of reason and of patience here. Pay attention when he posts. -MW- From lynx at u.washington.edu Sat Jan 11 22:03:20 2003 From: lynx at u.washington.edu (Adam Stenseth) Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 22:03:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: pray daily In-Reply-To: <4f898bba6de14102ec2089adab8137b9@ecn.org> Message-ID: Any particular reason this time, or just on general principle? -adam On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, Anonymous wrote: > > We must all pray daily that someone will kill Bush ASAP. From tboyle at rosehill.net Sun Jan 12 17:04:19 2003 From: tboyle at rosehill.net (Todd Boyle) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 17:04:19 -0800 Subject: Security cameras are getting smart -- and scary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030112165721.03cce8e0@popmail2.cortland.com> Regarding Tim May, Tyler Durden, and Anonymous's stupid thread, Robert, why are you reposting this shit? This is supposed to be a "Digital Bearer Settlement List ". Is killing blacks, or racism, a commonly held belief or practice, in the digital settlement industry? Is this somehow, like, business enhancing for you, in IBUC? For that matter, is there any conceptual association between killing people, and payments with digital currencies? What's your point, in mirroring the worst of the crypto lists? There's plenty of good stuff there... are you doing this to be cool? For the shock value or something? What are you doin? Just entertaining yourself? Whiling away the years? I thought you had some goals, or purpose, in what you're doing. Todd At 02:20 PM 1/12/2003, R. A. Hettinga wrote: >--- begin forwarded text > > >Status: U >Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 13:30:17 -0800 >Subject: Re: Security cameras are getting smart -- and scary >From: Tim May >To: cypherpunks at lne.com >Sender: owner-cypherpunks at lne.com > >On Sunday, January 12, 2003, at 12:55 PM, Sleeping Vayu - Vayu >Anonymous Remailer wrote: > > > At 09:33 PM 01/10/2003 -0500, Tyler Durden wrote: > >> For all I know, I've been posting on a list haunted by a bunch of > >> crypto-white supremists (crypto, as in secret, hidden). And if that's > >> the case, then I want to know. Figured I'd ask for clarification on > >> this issue. (And from some of May's comments in the past, it wasn't > >> clear to me.) > > > > As a matter of fact, I and Tim May regularly go nigger > > hunting in the hills, me with my SKS. Tim May is not so > > keen on those commie guns, and usually has a good old > > American AR15 > >Though I often favor a eurotrash FN-FAL. > >As for being "crypto-white," the Zionist slur used by Seymour >Goldstein, er, "Tyler Durden," he must be confusing me with my group, >the "Crypto Whites Foundation." > >www.cryptowhites.org is devoted to making strong privacy and crypto >tools available to oppressed persons of whiteness in Europe, America, >and ZOG-occupied Palestine. > >Donations to support my salary are welcome. > > >--Tim May > >--- end forwarded text > > >-- >----------------- >R. A. Hettinga >The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation >44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA >"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, >[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to >experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From salwaniya at yahoo.fr Sun Jan 12 17:45:18 2003 From: salwaniya at yahoo.fr (=?iso-8859-1?q?safiya=20nedjma?=) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 02:45:18 +0100 (CET) Subject: info Message-ID: <20030113014518.98401.qmail@web14902.mail.yahoo.com> is the lotto a scam? are one of the winners? ___________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en français ! Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com From mv at cdc.gov Tue Jan 14 08:49:07 2003 From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret)) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:49:07 -0800 Subject: Brinworld: Samsung SCH-V310 camcorder phone Message-ID: <3E243F83.FFD79E69@cdc.gov> At 01:38 AM 1/14/03 -0800, Bill Stewart wrote: > data speeds on cell phones are >getting fast enough that if they've designed the phones right, >you can get at least CU-SeeMe quality video and maybe better, >with 64kbps, and ostensibly 384kbps >But it's a start. Its pretty common to see a "reporter" holding a cell phone up to a talking head surrounded by more conventional microphones, tape recorders. When a major news medium first uses a video snip recorded from a phone at the scene, the Brinworld clock will have advanced another second. And then some Nokia yahoo will introduce some more interesting features that used to be found in $10K specialized video/recording equiptment * snap a frame if something moves (security) * FIFO the last N seconds * low light/IR/frame accumulate etc. making the 7segment LED Brinworld clock blick closer to midnight. From wolf at priori.net Tue Jan 14 12:08:47 2003 From: wolf at priori.net (Meyer Wolfsheim) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 12:08:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: 3G Phones (was: Re: Brinworld: Samsung SCH-V310 camcorder phone) In-Reply-To: <5D57B51E-27F2-11D7-AC7F-0003938CDA08@tightrope.demon.co.uk > Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Steve Mynott wrote: > > ... and they lie about it being 3G (which doesn't exist yet.) > > It's a CDMA2000 phone which is 3G. > > 3G networks exist in many parts of the world, although behind schedule > in other parts. Hmm. I actually can't find any specs on that phone's max speed. The CDMA2000 service being offered by Sprint and Verison in the US does not meet the criteria for 3G. CDMA2000 1x as defined by the ITU is, a 3G standard. Keep in mind, however, that in order to be 3G by the ITU definition, a standard needs to deliver data rates of a minimum of 144 Kbps. The top speed I've seen advertised for CDMA2000 deployments is 70 Kbps. Is CDMA2000 being used outside North America? I thought GSM/GPRS was the dominant standard in Europe and Asia. (GPRS is never 3G.) -MW- From bill.stewart at pobox.com Tue Jan 14 14:24:44 2003 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:24:44 -0800 Subject: Brinworld: Samsung SCH-V310 camcorder phone In-Reply-To: <5D57B51E-27F2-11D7-AC7F-0003938CDA08@tightrope.demon.co.uk > References: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030114122418.02c904f8@idiom.com> >>... and they lie about it being 3G (which doesn't exist yet.) > >It's a CDMA2000 phone which is 3G. > >3G networks exist in many parts of the world, although behind schedule in >other parts. The whole "Cell Phones - The Next Generation" thing has been a pure marketing scam from the beginning. It's a popular well-funded scam that got lots of mindshare because it promised lots of people marketshare dominance or other political advantages, that they haven't executed well. But it makes a bunch of assumptions that the world can, will, and should have the same cellphone standard everywhere, and that the marketing people coming up with the term know what it is because they work for the people who are [pick hackneyed phrase here: A: the powerful beings creating the One Ringtone To Rule Them All, B: inevitably, scientific-central-planningally historically destined C: The Phone Company which is really in charge of everything D: the capitalist oligopoly conning our democratic central planners ] which everybody in the world will buy into, including manufacturers, system operators, regulators, and last and certainly least, those enthusiastic customers, and we'll all make scandalously high profits while giving consumers what we _know_ they want to pay tons of money for, because we know that the technology developers are ready to ship this stuff Real Soon Now, at the right price point, And of course, it assumes that everybody will believe that the products _these_ marketing people are trying to sell are the ones that will win, as opposed to the other technology developers who are making obviously substandard products unworthy of becoming CellPhones: TNG, and if somehow one of those other developers gets deployed in some significant market, they'll not only be stuck with some hackneyed name like "2.5G", but consumers will realize that those competing technologies are just opportunists who'll be Left Behind By Progress, so they either won't buy it or at least the wireless companies will dump it for Better Stuff Real Soon, or at least if there's more than one cell-phone company in an area, if the first one buys the 2.5G stuff, anybody else coming in with 3G can steal their customers. They're also depending on it taking long enough for 3G to get deployed and paid for and achieve World Domination that nobody's going to sneak in and call _their_ stuff 4G..... In practice, the real issues seem to be how fast a data channel is available, with the interesting values being 9600, 56k, 384k, 2M, how much spectrum space gets burned supporting it, how much distance you get for the voice and data cells, which standards interfere with which other standards, whether voice gets handled as something special or as data, whether data gets handled as something special like WAP or left as open-standard IP with TCP or UDP and HTTP, with or without being forced through filters or able to be sent through optional filters, how to integrate data transmission with texting (e.g. texting using ad-hoc telco standards or internet standards), how much jitter the data has (low values make VOIP possible), who's in charge of each of these services, which is to say "who gets how much of the money, if any", and how to get teenagers to have to buy it to be cool. These aren't the kind of things that easily fit into one linear range of values, and doing so is marketing scam. From mmotyka at lsil.com Tue Jan 14 14:48:29 2003 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:48:29 -0800 Subject: Indo European Origins (language mutability, efficiency) Message-ID: <3E24233D.30501.11C506C@localhost> "Major Variola (ret)" wrote : >On Ken's >> > All contemporary natural languages, like all biological species, are >> > the same age. > >At first this parsed because I was thinking in the sense of >"all organisms have ancestries going back the same amount of >time". (And humans aren't the 'goal' of evolution.) Not sure >if non-bioheads got this. Anyway others' complaints clarified >"speciation" --if you are willing to identify a bifurcation point >then you *can* age a species or any other fork --Linux 2.4, >Latin, Corvettes, etc. > I guess bifurcation points and speciation seem very clear because of the aliasing problems in our sampling methods. The speciation exists but is prolly ( probably ) often fuzzier than we think. Almost everyone would say that an American Bison and a Scot's Highland are two different species but they can hybridize. Maybe we non-Biologists measure the distance between "species" inaccurately. >At 10:36 AM 1/14/03 -0800, Michael Motyka wrote: >>An interesting question that arises out of the observation that some >languages >>are relatively static and others - like English - have been changing >steadily. Is >>there any connection between the evolution behavior of the language and >the >>vitality of the culture? I think so. > >"Vitality" is fuzzy. > Choose your measure : population? power? innovation? environmental impact? rate of change? The US seems more vital by some measures. Less so by others. More dangerous to the species by others. >Clearly America admitting everyone (cf Japanese) helps. >Clearly not having an Acadamie Anglaise helps (cf surrender-monkeys). >Electronic media probably help. > >There's an even more interesting technical evolution: >English is also undergoing "entropic refinement" or Hamming-like coding, >as speakers prune or invent for efficiency. > >As it is, it takes fewer letters in English to say something than every >other common language. >Look at the instruction manuals for your domestic appliances. > That is interesting. >Forms (memory requirements) get simpler ---can you believe that the >surrender-monkeys retain >a gender-bit for every friggin object-- and phonetically simpler too. >The sounds get more orthogonal. >Also the influence of immigrants and children and lazy native speakers >who can't tell a "v" from a "w" or "d" from "th", >or remember the 150 irregular verbs. > >Some of this is natural. I've adopted the southern "y'all" because >English has no plural third person and this >ambiguity is annoying when you're emailing to several people. Note also >the efficiency of the contraction. >You hear "data" used as singular enough times, you say fuck it, I'll >have a beer, or several beer [sic]. Talk to >Eastern Europeans long enough, you'll start dropping your articles, >though you may miss the FEC/prompting >and flash back to Boris & Natasha cartoons... > Is the evolution towards a more efficient language an active or passive process? Is it driven by an internal inclination towards expansion, freeing up system resources as it were, or is it a coping mechanism for sensory overload? Mike From mmotyka at lsil.com Tue Jan 14 14:49:08 2003 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:49:08 -0800 Subject: Indo European Origins In-Reply-To: <20030114223016.GA11045@cybershamanix.com> References: <3E23E83E.12150.35DE2E@localhost> Message-ID: <3E242364.14851.11CEAB5@localhost> Harmon Seaver wrote : > You don't even have to read 14th Cent. lit to experience that. Read > "A > Clockwork Orange" -- most folks find they read about 1/3 to 1/2 before > they go back and start over. Gibson, at least the earlier stuff, like > "Neuromancer", is a bit like that, but Burgess really almost invented > a new language. > I read a few Burgess novels as a teenager - A Clockwork Orange, The Eve of St. Venus, One Hand Clapping, The Wanting Seed and I don't remember them that way. I remember them reading smoothly and clearly without a great struggle. Probably time to revisit one or two just to double-check my old brain. > Language evolves more rapidly than the yours (and Tim's) examples > tho -- look > at innercity blackspeak, especially Chicago. Forget the ebonics jokes > -- this is a genuine language change. Or look at other areas of the > country with older language evolution -- Gullah in So. Caroline, for > instance, a much earlier language specialization. When I was at the > Univ. of So. Alabama in Mobile, I came across a group of country > blacks in a grocery store whose language was totally incomprehensible, > at least to me. I asked black friends about it, and they could mimic > it a bit, but confessed that they too had a lot of difficulty > understanding it, and they were native Mobilians. > I was raised, for the most part, in the deep South, but I've also > come > across many whites there whose speech was very difficult to > understand, and which, I'm sure, if one tried to read an accurate > phonetic rendition, without benefit of body language, would seem be > essentially a foreign language. > I know the experience - in the southern US, in Scotland - it's all English. Really? People are probably creating language constantly like a software evolutionary experiment. Much of it probably dies out. What remains appears to be "speciation". Write much Forth lately? Mike From juicy at melontraffickers.com Tue Jan 14 15:38:41 2003 From: juicy at melontraffickers.com (A.Melon) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:38:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: Brinworld: Samsung SCH-V310 camcorder phone Message-ID: Bill Stewart said: > At 12:31 PM 01/14/2003 -0800, Tim May wrote: > >I saw mention on the Yahoo news site that some health clubs and > >gyms are already taking steps to limit the types of cellphones > >allowed in the changing areas (and maybe elsewhere). > > Hey, some people get their privacy by going to places that > have Rules about the kind of video-broadcast technology that's allowed, > some people build it using Technology like cell-phone jammers, > while others of us accomplish it by having figures that > nobody's going to bother photographing :-) Unless you are being rebirthed by a home applicance. http://pics.nikita.ca/artificial-gravity/bill.jpg From schear at attbi.com Tue Jan 14 16:14:47 2003 From: schear at attbi.com (Steve Schear) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 16:14:47 -0800 Subject: Chad Gore wants a chance to vote a second time! In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030114081114.04240eb0@mail.attbi.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030114160432.04203628@mail.attbi.com> At 12:28 PM 1/14/2003 -0800, Tim May wrote: >On Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 08:29 AM, Steve Schear wrote: >>> >>>Everything the Supreme Court did in the 2000 election was fully >>>justified. The Dems lost, then tried to change the rules. >> >>Perhaps its my lack of depth in understanding the Constitution and its >>Amendments, but it seems to me that the robed ones were applying the >>Equal Protection Clause in a way that could de-legitimize virtually every >>election in American history. Their intervention and they way it was >>decided sets a very bad precedent. > >Some old Jews and some negroes screwed up their ballots and accidentally >voted, they claimed, for Pat Buchanan instead of who they claimed to >interviewers they "intended" to vote for, namely, Al Gore. (A ballot >designed by a Democrat precinct, by the way.) > >It was proper that they were neither given a chance to vote over again nor >given a chance to have incorrectly punched ballots altered to give the >votes to Gore. All true, but you didn't address my concern about the nature of the SC intervention. In the book, 'The Accidental President,' by Newsweek writer David A. Kaplan--challenges statements by some justices in the aftermath of the decision that they had put the matter behind them and were once again enjoying cordial relations. It describes Souter and the three colleagues who joined him in dissent--Justices Stephen G. Breyer, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and John Paul Stevens--as angered and baffled by the majority opinion. Kaplan's book excerpt reveals that the animosities within the Court spilled over at a gathering of the Justices while they were hosting six visiting Russian judges. ``'In our country,' a Russian justice said, bemused, 'we wouldn't let judges pick the president.' The justice added that he knew that, in various nations, judges were in the pocket of executive officials -- he just didn't know that was so in the United States,'' Kaplan writes. ``Stephen Breyer was angry and launched into an attack on the decision, right in front of his colleagues. It was 'the most outrageous, indefensible thing' the Court had ever done, he told the visiting judges. 'We all agree to disagree, but this is different.' Breyer was defiant, brimming with confidence that he'd been right in his long dissent.'' Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg was more baffled than annoyed, attempting to rationalize the legitimacy of the ruling. ``'Are we so highly political, after all?' she said. 'We've surely done other things, too, that were activist, but here we're applying the Equal Protection Clause in a way that would de-legitimize virtually every election in American history','' Kaplan writes. steve From m.pallag at aikawa.hu Tue Jan 14 08:34:29 2003 From: m.pallag at aikawa.hu (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Pallag_Mih=E1ly?=) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 17:34:29 +0100 Subject: Fw: CONGRATULATIONS! Message-ID: <003801c2bbea$cf4915d0$b600010a@IBM82> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pallag Mihály" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 5:32 PM Subject: Fw: CONGRATULATIONS! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pallag Mihály" > To: "Pallag Mihály" > Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 8:48 AM > Subject: Fw: CONGRATULATIONS! > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Promotions Manager: LOTTO NL" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 11:45 PM > > Subject: CONGRATULATIONS! > > > > > > > > > > LOTTO NL > > > 72657, NL-2115 DB AMSTERDAM, > > > THE NETHERLANDS > > > > > > > > > From: The Promotions Manager > > > International Lotto/ Prize Award Department. > > > REF: DIAQ34761 DATE: 8th > > January 2003. > > > > > > ATTN: pmpmpcs at freemail.hu > > > > > > 9TH NOVEMBER 2002 DRAW RESULTS/ WINNING NOTICE > > > > > > Congratulations! We announce with pleasure that you have emerged as one > of > > the two winners of the Lotto NL ballot draws held on 9th November 2002. > > > > > > Be informed that you are among 15,000 individuals/private companies > > selected by our computer ballot system and have scaled through all three > > draws of the Lotto NL. In line with all Netherlands Lottery Regulations, > the > > Lotto NL has just concluded its annual draws for the year 2002. By our > > procedures, you were allocated to NL lottery ticket number 76-1102-103. > > Ballot 1 and ballot 2 numbers are 1102/545 and 1102/73 respectively, with > > serial number AA5/120920 > > > > > > From the results of the final draws, you have emerged as a Prime winner > in > > the "A" category and therefore entitled to a winning payout amounting to > > US$6,500,000.00. This is from the total amount of US$13,000,000.00 for > > allocated to the two "A" category winners. Your prize money has been > insured > > and credited in your name to file Ref. No. DIAQ34761. You are therefore to > > contact our financial agents to immediately claim your prize. Please find > > contact information below: > > > > > > MR. ARENT DAVIS > > > FINANCE DIRECTOR, > > > SPRINT SECURITIES BV, > > > TEL/FAX: 31 619676795 > > > MOBILE: +8821652070052 > > > FAX: 31 205248276 > > > EMAIL: arentdav2 at sprintsecurities.com > > > > > > Remember, you must contact your claims officer immediately, on or before > > 15th January 2003 to avoid funds being returned as unclaimed. All > > correspondences to Mr. Arent Davis, either by fax or email, should have > this > > email sent along with it and also, your email address to which this email > is > > sent should be clearly and boldly written in your response. You should > also > > include your reference number. Also, should there be any change of your > > address, do inform your claims officer as soon as possible. > > > > > > Be advised that Lotto regulations prohibit you from publicly disclosing > > your win until you have received your prize money. This is for security > > reasons and to avoid cases of multiple claims processing. The Lotto NL > holds > > exclusive right to terminate your claims processing upon any breach of > this > > condition. > > > > > > Congratulations again from all our staff and thank you for being part of > > our international lotto program. It is our hope that with a part of your > > prize, you will participate in our end of year high stakes US$1.3 billion > > International lotto. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > > > THE DIRECTOR PROMOTIONS, > > > LOTTO NL > > > http://www.lottonl.com > > > > > > N.B: Any breach of confidentiality on the part of the winners will > result > > in disqualification. Please do not reply this mail. This message is been > > sent to your email address pmpmpcs at freemail.hu for purpose of > > confidentiality. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From camera_lumina at hotmail.com Tue Jan 14 18:51:28 2003 From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 21:51:28 -0500 Subject: Security cameras are getting smart -- and scary Message-ID: Holy shit! I could done better than this! (ie, I THOUGHT this would be outrageous and amusing but it kinda sucked black prison dick.) -TD >From: Sleeping Vayu - Vayu Anonymous Remailer >To: cypherpunks at minder.net >Subject: Re: Security cameras are getting smart -- and scary >Date: 12 Jan 2003 20:55:51 -0000 > >At 09:33 PM 01/10/2003 -0500, Tyler Durden wrote: > > For all I know, I've been posting on a list haunted by a bunch of > > crypto-white supremists (crypto, as in secret, hidden). And if that's > > the case, then I want to know. Figured I'd ask for clarification on > > this issue. (And from some of May's comments in the past, it wasn't > > clear to me.) > >As a matter of fact, I and Tim May regularly go nigger >hunting in the hills, me with my SKS. Tim May is not so >keen on those commie guns, and usually has a good old >American AR15 > >Of course, in the hills around here there usually are no >damned niggers, but sometimes we get a pig. Niggers are >pretty rare. To catch a nigger, you need the right bait. > >The tricky thing is to lure a nigger out of his native haunts, >to someplace far away and lonely with no one knowing where >he went. Fortunately a friend of ours sometimes hires some >nigger pussy to give him a good time in his house out in the >woods. Then of course the lady tells her numerous boyfriends >about all the good stuff he has, and pretty soon there are >some niggers out to rob him. They usually get caught in one >of his traps, and if a couple of days pass and it seems that >no one is missing that nigger, I and Tim May have a it of fun >killing it. It is not really as sporting as finding one in >hills, so usually we torture it a bit then give it a short >head start, track it through the hills by bloodstains, and then >shoot it. > >There are quite a few entertaining ways of torturing a nigger >before you kill it. Books are one of the best -- they have the >same effect on a nigger as kryptonite on superman. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From sfurlong at acmenet.net Tue Jan 14 19:41:50 2003 From: sfurlong at acmenet.net (Steve Furlong) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 22:41:50 -0500 Subject: Indo European Origins In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030114113302.026232f8@idiom.com> References: <54B3E6B2-2721-11D7-A078-0050E439C473@got.net> <5.1.1.6.2.20030114113302.026232f8@idiom.com> Message-ID: <200301142241.50258.sfurlong@acmenet.net> On Tuesday 14 January 2003 15:23, Bill Stewart wrote: > ...You might as well argue that Esperanto** is just > a rapidly evolved Indo-European. > ** You probably _can't_ argue that about Logban; hacking the grammar > to make it yacc-parseable is pretty radical surgery. Allow me to introduce myself: coi rodo mi'e stivn. (Lojban: Hey, all, I'm Steve.) I might have something to contribute to this subthread. Lojban (not Logban; that's a conflation of the names Loglan and Lojban) isn't LALR-1. The grammar can be parsed by yacc only through creative use of the error-catching mechanism. It's a very impressive feat of yacc-hacking, don't get me wrong, but it's a hack nonetheless. And the grammar was indeed crafted to fit in a hacked yacc parser. A real parser which can properly handle grammatical errors in a chunk of Lojban text needs a more powerful language. Given that, Bill's point is correct: Lojban's gammar has practically nothing in common with any natural language. co'o rodo stivn. -- Steve Furlong Computer Condottiere Have GNU, Will Travel You don't expect governments to obey the law because of some higher moral development. You expect them to obey the law because they know that if they don't, those who aren't shot will be hanged. --Michael Shirley From gnu at toad.com Wed Jan 15 00:53:53 2003 From: gnu at toad.com (John Gilmore) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 00:53:53 -0800 Subject: RIAA turns against Hollings bill In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200301150853.h0F8rrC07604@new.toad.com> > How does this latest development change the picture? If there is no > Hollings bill, does this mean that Trusted Computing will be voluntary, > as its proponents have always claimed? And if we no longer have such > a threat of a mandated Trusted Computing technology, how bad is it for > the system to be offered in a free market? The detailed RIAA statement tries to leave exactly this impression, but it's the usual smokescreen. Check the sentence in their "7 policy principles" joint statement, principle 6: "... The role of government, if needed at all, should be limited to enforcing compliance with voluntarily developed functional specifications reflecting consensus among affected interests." I.e. it's the same old game. TCPA is such a voluntarily developed functional spec. So is the "broadcast flag", and the HDCP copy protection of your video cable, and IBM's copy-protection for hard disk drives. Everything is all voluntary, until some competitor reverse engineers one of these, and builds a product that lets the information get out of the little "consensus" boxes. Consumers want that, but it can't be allowed to happen. THEN the role of government is to eliminate that competitor by outlawing them and their product. John --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From nobody at dizum.com Tue Jan 14 16:25:01 2003 From: nobody at dizum.com (Nomen Nescio) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 01:25:01 +0100 (CET) Subject: RIAA turns against Hollings bill Message-ID: The New York Times is reporting at http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/14/technology/14CND-PIRACY.html that the Recording Industry Association of America, along with two computer and technology industry trade groups, has agreed not to seek new government regulations to mandate technological controls for copyright protection. This appears to refer primarily to the Hollings bill, the CBDTPA, which had already been struck a blow when Hollings lost his committee chairmanship due to the Democrats losing Senate leadership. Most observers see this latest step as being the last nail in the coffin for the CBDTPA. Some months ago there were those who were predicting that Trusted Computing technology, as embodied in the TCPA and Palladium proposals, would be mandated by the Hollings bill. They said that all this talk of "voluntary" implementations was just a smoke screen while the players worked behind the scenes to pass laws that would mandate TCPA and Palladium in their most restrictive forms. It was said that Linux would be banned, that computers would no longer be able to run software that we can use today. We would cease to be the real owners of our computers, others would be "root" on them. A whole host of calamaties were forecast. How does this latest development change the picture? If there is no Hollings bill, does this mean that Trusted Computing will be voluntary, as its proponents have always claimed? And if we no longer have such a threat of a mandated Trusted Computing technology, how bad is it for the system to be offered in a free market? Let technology companies decide whether to offer Palladium technology on their computers or not. Let content producers decide whether to use Palladium to protect their content or not. Let consumers decide whether to purchase and enable Palladium on their systems or not. Why is it so bad for people to freely make their own decisions about how best to live their lives? Cypherpunks of all people should be the last to advocate limiting the choices of others. Thankfully, it looks like freedom may win this round, despite the efforts of cypherpunks and "online freedom" advocates to eliminate this new technology option. --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From birger at takatukaland.de Tue Jan 14 22:26:44 2003 From: birger at takatukaland.de (Birger Toedtmann) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 07:26:44 +0100 Subject: RIAA turns against Hollings bill In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030115062644.GA9921@lomin.exp-math.uni-essen.de> Nomen Nescio schrieb am Wed, Jan 15, 2003 at 01:25:01AM +0100: [...] > a threat of a mandated Trusted Computing technology, how bad is it for > the system to be offered in a free market? > > Let technology companies decide whether to offer Palladium technology > on their computers or not. Let content producers decide whether to use > Palladium to protect their content or not. Let consumers decide whether > to purchase and enable Palladium on their systems or not. > > Why is it so bad for people to freely make their own decisions about > how best to live their lives? Cypherpunks of all people should be the > last to advocate limiting the choices of others. Thankfully, it looks > like freedom may win this round, despite the efforts of cypherpunks and > "online freedom" advocates to eliminate this new technology option. Just to remind you of the arguments already known and voiced here even more often: to "freely make their own decisions" is possible IFF there is no one exerting force (absence of a law, and the fall of the CBDTPA may help in this respect) AND people have alternatives to choose from. The latter may not be the case in several years from now, CBDTPA or not. If you only can buy TCPA boards and your favourite OS will only run your favourite content when some TCPA microkernel is provably running, how's that compatible with free decisions? (No, I cannot build my own mainboard, sorry.) Do you really think the industry will ask the average user whether he wants a TCPA-enabled board or not? Do you really think the average user will even understand the question? Driving a car is not an option if the supermarket is 50 miles from your home and there's no bus station. Regards, Birger Toedtmann From ptrei at rsasecurity.com Wed Jan 15 06:56:01 2003 From: ptrei at rsasecurity.com (Trei, Peter) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 09:56:01 -0500 Subject: RIAA turns against Hollings bill Message-ID: > John Gilmore[SMTP:gnu at toad.com] writes: Nomen writes: > > How does this latest development change the picture? If there is no > > Hollings bill, does this mean that Trusted Computing will be voluntary, > > as its proponents have always claimed? And if we no longer have such > > a threat of a mandated Trusted Computing technology, how bad is it for > > the system to be offered in a free market? > > The detailed RIAA statement tries to leave exactly this impression, > but it's the usual smokescreen. Check the sentence in their "7 policy > principles" joint statement, principle 6: > > "... The role of government, if needed at all, should be limited to > enforcing compliance with voluntarily developed functional > specifications reflecting consensus among affected interests." > > I.e. it's the same old game. TCPA is such a voluntarily developed > functional spec. So is the "broadcast flag", and the HDCP copy > protection of your video cable, and IBM's copy-protection for hard > disk drives. Everything is all voluntary, until some competitor > reverse engineers one of these, and builds a product that lets the > information get out of the little "consensus" boxes. Consumers want > that, but it can't be allowed to happen. THEN the role of government > is to eliminate that competitor by outlawing them and their product. > > John > "enforcing compliance with voluntarily developed functional specifications" appears to be NewSpeak for: "Let the RIAA, not Congress, write the laws, and then send in Men With Guns to enforce them." Peter Trei --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From emc at artifact.psychedelic.net Wed Jan 15 12:06:37 2003 From: emc at artifact.psychedelic.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 12:06:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: Pete Townshend and Pee-Wee Message-ID: <200301152006.h0FK6b420807@artifact.psychedelic.net> Remember that age verification service which got busted a few years back when the feds managed to convince a jury that the owners were the "madams of a child porn bordello," based on two overseas sites which featured illegal material? http://www.inet-one.com/cypherpunks/dir.2001.08.06-2001.08.12/msg00433.html Well, after managing to entrap a few hundred US citizens into ordering KP from the feds, the feds are now grepping the list of 250,000 customers by country, and shipping the data off to other nations so that they may attempt to lure their own citizens as well. In the UK, this is of course the currently being reported on "Operation Ore" which is nailing pervy brits right and left, including Who musician Pete Townshend. In the US, the distortion continues full speed, with the age verification service still being referred to as "The World's Largest Child Porn Ring", with "250,000 child porn customers" paying millions for "pay per view" access to "over 6000" sites featuring pictures of "babies being raped," which is a small part of the "insatiable demand" for the" child sexual abuse pictures" featured on "over 100,000 web sites", or so Connie Chung tells us. Well, at least it makes being in the age verification business exciting. In the midst of all this frivolity, the Village Voice has written a very intelligent article on the current charges against Paul Reubens, aka Pee Wee Herman, which apparently stem from an occasional minor featured in his vintage collection of 1960's muscle magazines, and a few grainy possible underage males in his now meticulously combed through collection of antique 8mm gay porn. The Village Voice: Features: Richard Goldstein: Persecuting Pee Wee http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0303/goldstein.php All this, and a dead Echols too. It's been quite a week. :) -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From WRodger at ccianet.org Wed Jan 15 10:12:49 2003 From: WRodger at ccianet.org (Will A. Rodger) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:12:49 -0500 Subject: RIAA turns against Hollings bill Message-ID: Nomen said: > How does this latest development change the picture? If there is no > Hollings bill, does this mean that Trusted Computing will be voluntary, > as its proponents have always claimed? And if we no longer have such > a threat of a mandated Trusted Computing technology, how bad is it for > the system to be offered in a free market? John Gilmore replied: >The detailed RIAA statement tries to leave exactly this impression, >but it's the usual smokescreen. Check the sentence in their "7 policy >principles" joint statement, principle 6: "... The role of government, if needed at all, should be limited to enforcing compliance with voluntarily developed functional specifications reflecting consensus among affected interests." >I.e. it's the same old game. TCPA is such a voluntarily developed >functional spec. So is the "broadcast flag", and the HDCP copy >protection of your video cable, and IBM's copy-protection for hard >disk drives. Everything is all voluntary, until some competitor >reverse engineers one of these, and builds a product that lets the >information get out of the little "consensus" boxes. Consumers want >that, but it can't be allowed to happen. THEN the role of government >is to eliminate that competitor by outlawing them and their product. This is exactly correct. Wonks on both sides in DC been drawing this distinction quite clearly for some time. Yesterday's RIAA "concession" is in fact, reiteration of their established position. The only thing different today is MPAA now seems even further outside the mainstream of American legal tradition. Will Rodger Director Public Policy CCIA www.ccianet.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From zenadsl6186 at zen.co.uk Wed Jan 15 06:53:50 2003 From: zenadsl6186 at zen.co.uk (Peter Fairbrother) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 14:53:50 +0000 Subject: Strange spam Message-ID: I just got this spam, and I was wondering if it was a honey-pot. Anyone? The site exists, and advertises games and movies for download. -- Peter Fairbrother > > Frank > > You've gotta see this website: http://209.132.227.38/lotr/index.htm > > I just downloaded Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers and I'm now watching it on > my computer. Picture quality is great and it was tottally free. > They've got a whole bunch of other games and movies as well. Take a look. From Berk Wed Jan 15 17:44:55 2003 From: Berk (Berk) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 20:44:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: WPI Cryptography Seminar January 20 Message-ID: WPI Cryptography Seminar Towards a Theory of Variable Privacy BY: Dr. Poorvi Vora, Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, OR DATE: Monday, January 20, 2003 TIME: 10:00 AM PLACE: Atwater Kent, Room 218 ABSTRACT The traditional theory of security, with its focus on perfect secrecy, does not provide a satisfactory framework for the study of situations where information revelation bears a privacy cost and also provides a benefit. We define variable privacy as the use of randomization with user participation in the choice of parameters, and propose the beginnings of a theory for its study. Variable privacy enables the user, or a computational agent working on the user's behalf, to choose a level of interaction, based on a personal cost-benefit analysis of an instance of information revelation. Our theory is based on treating the randomization protocol as a channel for the information to be protected. We demonstrate a one-to-one correspondence between channel codes and a certain class of attacks. Shannon's theorems show the existence of very special attacks, and upper bounds on their efficiency. We use the bounds to motivate a privacy measure of randomization similar to one proposed the database literature, and thus provide connections between the theory of security and statistical privacy protection techniques. We are not aware of any other work that uses Shannon's theorems to construct the special attacks on cryptographic protocols. We are also not aware of any other work that connects error-correcting codes to attacks on randomization. DIRECTIONS: The WPI Cryptoseminar is being held in the Atwater Kent building on the WPI campus. Directions to the campus can be found at http://www.wpi.edu/About/Visitors/directions.html ATTENDANCE: The seminar is open to everyone and free of charge. Simply send me a brief email if you plan to attend. MAILING LIST: If you want to be added to the mailing list and receive talk announcements together with abstracts, please send us a short e-mail message. On the other hand, if you want to be removed from the list, just send a reply to this message with the word "remove" in the subject line. Regards, Berk Sunar and Bill Martin ______________________________________________________________ Berk Sunar, Assistant Professor Electrical & Computer Eng. Dept. Ph (508) 831 54 94 Worcester Polytechnic Institute Fx (508) 831 54 91 http://www.wpi.edu/~sunar http://ece.wpi.edu/research/crypt/ CRIS Laboratory ______________________________________________________________ --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From declan at well.com Wed Jan 15 19:17:44 2003 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 22:17:44 -0500 Subject: RIAA turns against Hollings bill In-Reply-To: ; from nobody@dizum.com on Wed, Jan 15, 2003 at 01:25:01AM +0100 References: Message-ID: <20030115221743.A18581@cluebot.com> I have a news analysis up at News.com that, perhaps, may shed some light on what's actually going on: http://news.com.com/2100-1023-980671.html -Declan On Wed, Jan 15, 2003 at 01:25:01AM +0100, Nomen Nescio wrote: > The New York Times is reporting at > http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/14/technology/14CND-PIRACY.html that > the Recording Industry Association of America, along with two computer > and technology industry trade groups, has agreed not to seek new > government regulations to mandate technological controls for copyright > protection. This appears to refer primarily to the Hollings bill, > the CBDTPA, which had already been struck a blow when Hollings lost his > committee chairmanship due to the Democrats losing Senate leadership. > Most observers see this latest step as being the last nail in the coffin > for the CBDTPA. > > Some months ago there were those who were predicting that Trusted > Computing technology, as embodied in the TCPA and Palladium proposals, > would be mandated by the Hollings bill. They said that all this talk of > "voluntary" implementations was just a smoke screen while the players > worked behind the scenes to pass laws that would mandate TCPA and > Palladium in their most restrictive forms. It was said that Linux would > be banned, that computers would no longer be able to run software that > we can use today. We would cease to be the real owners of our computers, > others would be "root" on them. A whole host of calamaties were forecast. [...] --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From aife at netvisao.pt Wed Jan 15 19:18:18 2003 From: aife at netvisao.pt (=?iso-8859-1?q?Andr=E9=20Isidoro=20Fernandes=20Esteves?=) Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 03:18:18 +0000 Subject: The Plague In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thursday, 16 de January de 2003 02:20, Tyler Durden wrote: > Actually, this may turn out to be more an academic issue than anything. > > If someone wanted bubonic or pnuemonic samples, all he'd have to do is just > grab someone from the western hospitals that contract it each year. > > Contrary to popular belief, it still exists, but we have effective > treatments against it. (Although when I was in China, there were cities in > southern Xinjiang that had a bad bubonic problem and had to be shut from > the outside world. Much worse was the HepA epidemic that hit Shanghai at > the time...stores and schools were oncverted into Hep wards, and you could > go there provided you brought your own bed.) > > -TD And all westerns have some level of aquired imunity, for we are the descendents of the plague survivors. (Actualy, in the dark ages, it wasn't only one plague.. it was several plagues (mutants and new pathogens) that spread wavelike through europe... the populations died mainly because of sistematically reduced imunity) Greetings aife From mv at cdc.gov Thu Jan 16 09:05:44 2003 From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret)) Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:05:44 -0800 Subject: The Plague Message-ID: <3E26E668.A257C2A4@cdc.gov> At 03:18 AM 1/16/03 +0000, Andri Isidoro Fernandes Esteves wrote: >And all westerns have some level of aquired imunity, for we are the Surely you mean inherited, not acquired. >descendents of the plague survivors. See _Guns Germs and Steel_ Note however, without occasional plagues, a population would lose resistance... From mv at cdc.gov Thu Jan 16 09:13:41 2003 From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret)) Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:13:41 -0800 Subject: Desert Spam Message-ID: <3E26E845.99A1517D@cdc.gov> At 03:44 PM 1/16/03 +0100, Anonymous wrote: > Does anyone know a source for a spam list for US military? Use google. Search for @*.mil Also large bureaucracies use standard forms like First.Surname at blah or FSurname at blah Be subtle. Ask them to disable their weapons and defect. Tell them you don't hate americans, just the regime. Make sure you don't post such info where furringers will see it ---they might abuse it. Also all that furringer mail coming into .mil will annoy DIA From monty at roscom.com Thu Jan 16 23:57:42 2003 From: monty at roscom.com (Monty Solomon) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 02:57:42 -0500 Subject: WPI Crypto Seminar: Towards a Theory of Variable Privacy Message-ID: From whr at x.org Fri Jan 17 02:07:49 2003 From: whr at x.org (W H Robinson) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 05:07:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: Vampires, GM Food and Malawi Message-ID: <200301171007.h0HA7nQ00980@saturn.web-hosting.com> Andri Isidoro Fernandes Esteves wrote: > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Malawian vampires now using sleeping gas > > New York Times > > "Malawi, despite the best efforts of its government, is in the grip of a > form of hysteria. Vampires are attacking the villages, people say. [snip] > Their prey, witnesses > insist, are modern-day vampires: men carrying flashlights who disable their > victims with sleeping gas." > > http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/14/international/africa/14VAMP.html?ex=1043211600&en=d065b1e057b4c483&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE [snip] > Conspiracies abound ;) "Gee! It's Mr. Adams, the theme park owner!" "I would have got away with it, if it weren't for you pesky meddlin' vigilante villagers." Quoth the article... "Everyone knows that politicians lie, Mr. Kaiya said, which is why few people trust the government's position on vampires." How many people in *your* home town would buy out local garlic stocks if this was the latest orange alert? From rah at shipwright.com Sat Jan 18 04:44:12 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 07:44:12 -0500 Subject: WPI Crypto Seminar: Towards a Theory of Variable Privacy Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text From mv at cdc.gov Sat Jan 18 09:40:10 2003 From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret)) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 09:40:10 -0800 Subject: cloning as heresy (Re: Fresh Hell) Message-ID: <3E29917A.73EAF190@cdc.gov> At 09:44 PM 1/17/03 -0800, Morlock Elloi wrote: >>>1) Fucks up the prevailing religion doctrine. >>> >>Funny, but I can't seem to find the passage in the Bible where it talks >>about cloning. In fact, I can't find any passage that even remotely >>impinges on the subject. > >Provided that I had the christian cult in mind (where I am not an connoisseur), >wasn't there something about exclusivity of conceiving without fucking ? He's talking about parthogenesis. You know, a young unwed palestinian gets knocked up, has a schizophrenic bastard son who makes it big in the city, gets a following, and is WACO-ized, more or less. From hseaver at cybershamanix.com Sat Jan 18 17:36:05 2003 From: hseaver at cybershamanix.com (Harmon Seaver) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 19:36:05 -0600 Subject: Petro's catch-22 incorrect (Re: citizens can be named as enemy combatants) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030119013605.GC17325@cybershamanix.com> On Sat, Jan 18, 2003 at 02:18:52PM -0500, Tyler Durden wrote: > > Perhaps we should try it and see? Ah well. But remember, it just might be > that OBL and Co are not just half a dozen guys in a Pakistani cave. Perhaps > there are thousands who are almost equally angry, Thousands? Gimme a break -- try "millions", eh? -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com From kvanhorn at ksvanhorn.com Sat Jan 18 18:13:57 2003 From: kvanhorn at ksvanhorn.com (Kevin S. Van Horn) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 20:13:57 -0600 Subject: Fresh Hell References: <20030118054435.235.qmail@web40607.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E2A09E5.4000106@ksvanhorn.com> Morlock Elloi wrote: >>Funny, but I can't seem to find the passage in the Bible where it talks about cloning. In fact, I can't find any passage that even remotely impinges on the subject >> >[...] wasn't there something about exclusivity of conceiving without fucking ? > As a former believer and student of the Bible, I can assure you that there is no passage in the Bible that says that Jesus was, will be, our should be the *only* person conceived without the benefit of sexual intercourse. And what do you think in vitro fertilization is, anyway? Many / most American Christians stress that they rely on the Bible as their one and only source of religious truth. If so, they have absolutely no *religious* basis for objecting to cloning. From jya at pipeline.com Sun Jan 19 10:10:08 2003 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 10:10:08 -0800 (GMT) Subject: [linux-elitists] LOCAL Stanford University: face down the DMCA enforcers (fwd) Message-ID: <4320508.1042978153083.JavaMail.nobody@wamui01.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Based on Larry Augustin's apology for cops and his avowed closeness to them, a protest is even more deserved against him if not the other participants. Larry appears to be quoting from the COPS PR manual for garnering public support to offset deserved criticism of official misbehavior. Larry is not alone in seeing the lucrative benefits of defending the giant law enforcement and national security industries, why you can read the turncoats all around the world of digital opportunity going on about the need for vigilance on the dangerous Net and worse, advocating prowling Intel-inside private computers networks to spot looming threats. As just one example see Counterpane's recent crowing about success, one of its lengthening series of warnings about the need for more and more security against the dangerous digital hordes, and less and less warnings about the need to protect against official and commercial invaders who are handing out lucrative contracts to Net security firms and professionals. Nothng like a fat bribe to convert pagans to organized terrorists screaming beware the sinners. Hmm, wasn't St. Augustine a prime role model for that crossover, as if Larry Augustin is a namesake. To be sure, informers are best recruited from the pagans for they know how to magnify the hazards of their clan. At 12:00 PM 1/19/2003 +0100, Eugen Leitl wrote: >Hold your fire for a moment. Could be hitting the wrong ones. > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 00:25:10 -0800 >From: Larry M. Augustin >To: linux-elitists at zgp.org >Cc: 'Don Marti' , 'Karsten M. Self' >Subject: RE: [linux-elitists] LOCAL Stanford University: face down the DMCA > enforcers > >I think that it would be a big mistake to do anything that might be viewed >as even the slightest bit disruptive in this venue. Further, I think you're >jumping to conclusions to assume that the DMCA is relevant to these >speakers. > >Dennis Allison and John Wharton, both of whom I have known for years, are >sympathetic to free software and sympathetic to the problems with the DMCA. >Dennis regularly brings in Bruce, Eric, and Richard as speakers. I've >spoken at this seminar on 2 or 3 occasions. Bruce was just there a few >weeks ago talking about the RAND vs. RF patent policy issues. > >Cops have a tough job. They deserve our thanks for doing a tough job. I >have a number of close friends who are cops. I think they deserve more >benefit of doubt than "Target the _speakers_ and _philosophy_". It doesn't >sound like these are people that write the laws or make policy. Maybe they >spend their time fighting real computer crime like identity theft and >crackers. They deserve our support in that job. > >Has anyone talked to Dennis? Before jumping to any conclusions, or >organizing any kind of protest or demonstration, talk to Dennis. > >Larry From schear at attbi.com Sun Jan 19 23:10:52 2003 From: schear at attbi.com (Steve Schear) Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 23:10:52 -0800 Subject: Atlas Shrugs in Venezuela Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030119230922.03733ef8@mail.attbi.com> A recent news article described the nationwide strike in Venezuela, in protest against the nascent dictatorship of Hugo Chavez, as seeming "like something from fiction." Well, yes, it seems very similar to one work of fiction in particular: Ayn Rand's prophetic 1957 novel, "Atlas Shrugged." The parallels between fiction and fact are striking. In Ayn Rand's novel, America is sliding into an economic dictatorship, so inventors and businessmen lead a secret walk-out, withdrawing their support from the "looters" who want to plunder the wealth they create. They declare that they won't return until the looters relinquish power. Rand's working title for the novel was "The Strike." In an era of frequent, sometimes violent strikes by factory workers, it was shockingly original to suggest that the entrepreneurs, inventors and capitalists might go on strike. Ayn Rand's imagined strike is no longer fiction. For four years, Venezuela has been gradually sliding into an economic and political dictatorship under Marxist populist Hugo Chavez, an open admirer of Fidel Castro and Saddam Hussein. In response, the nation's largest federation of businessmen has led the nation for more than 40 days in a massive work stoppage. Venezuela's most productive citizens have gone on strike to protest their imminent liquidation under Chavez's communist revolution. http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0103/tracinski.html "Liberty cannot be preserved without a general knowledge among the people... Be not intimidated, therefore, by any terrors, from publishing with the utmost freedom...nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberty by any pretenses of politeness, delicacy, or decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy, chicanery, and cowardice." -- John Adams From tcmay at got.net Mon Jan 20 14:36:33 2003 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:36:33 -0800 Subject: [linux-elitists] LOCAL Stanford University: face down the DMCA enforcers (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20030120000843.C1810@cluebot.com> Message-ID: On Sunday, January 19, 2003, at 09:08 PM, Declan McCullagh wrote: > I suspect would be silly to stage an anti-DMCA protest against an > invited > speaker to that Stanford class. Lessig, Gilmore, Barlow, Farber, and > Stallman have been speakers (and I'm scheduled to be in the spring > lineup). > > At the very least, it makes sense to find out more about the program > and have a cordial conversation with the organizers before rushing > to stage a demonstration. Activist-hours are a scarce resource; use > them prudently, carefully, and wisely. > I've been to a few of these, and once spoke at one, circa 1993. IMO, nearly worthless. Thinking about how little can get covered in an hour at a Cypherpunks meeting, imagine what happens in any particular one hour of one of these things: just enough time to establish a few basic points, hit on some of the current issues, and take some questions. For the actual students, not so bad, as they're getting 15 or so of these lectures per semester, and the intent is to provide a survey of topics. (Strangely enough, 15 times "nearly worthless" is OK...for a survey class!) The point is that anyone already familiar with the topic or the issues will not learn anything. Which leaves arguing with the speaker as the only reason for going...and arguing with the speaker is not worthwhile, given the extreme constraints on time. And given the usual pointlessness of arguing with others. --Tim May From wolf at priori.net Mon Jan 20 16:07:10 2003 From: wolf at priori.net (Meyer Wolfsheim) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:07:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: cloning as heresy (Re: Fresh Hell) In-Reply-To: <20030119010020.GB17325@cybershamanix.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Harmon Seaver wrote: > Ah, now I see. Before, I was thinking that he was talking about the passage > where Onan pulls out and spills his seed on the ground, which, somehow, became a > prescription against masturbation, although reading it, especially in context, > is clearly just about pulling out. Or possibly against birth-control. > "Thou shalt not pull out.", thus saith the Lord, "or in any other way deprive > thy partner of the power of thy final orgasmic thrusting." > > 8-) > > Weird, isn't it, that this became so associated with masturbation > that a very successful company -- "Onan" -- even would choose their > name for generators, i.e., "self power" or "do it alone", etc., from > that passage. Even weirder that it doesn't have the slightest thing to > do with jacking off, but with someone not willing to accept their (at > the time) societal duty to support his dead brother's wife and father > her children. The irony, of course, is what the Catholic Church would have to say if the brother-in-laws of modern widows resumed this practice. -MW- From sunder at sunder.net Mon Jan 20 17:11:11 2003 From: sunder at sunder.net (Sunder) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 20:11:11 -0500 (est) Subject: Harbucks (was Re: Small taste of things to come if the war on Iraq happens.) In-Reply-To: <200301190745.AA316801578@1st.net> Message-ID: Yeah, not that I frequent them much - as I don't think that spending $7 on a greasy vendi Crappuchino* or whatever full of caffeine, corn syrup and heavy cream is a wise way to spend $7 when the corner deli has damned good coffee for $1.25, but Harbucks** reminds me of the beatnick coffee houses of the days of lore, where men would gather and talk of revolution. :) Strange that such a place is now connected with "Working for The Man" and creeping consumerism, and evil corporations... Of course, now, the local Harbucks, it's full of palm pilot bearing geeks trying to nervously hook up with a prospective date, while sitting in comfy cartoonish chairs and couches (think the more LSD like Tom & Jerry episodes), getting wired on expensive caffeine and sugar and complaining about not being able to take the pressure**1/2, while surfing wired.com or slashdot.org wirlessly, or in need of passing time for the sake of just passing time without getting nabbed by the gendarmes for loitering behding the 7-11 and drinking non-alcoholic beer*. That, and the current dive dot bomb that has hired me as a sysadmin and working me 70 hours a week in this sinking market, has so little room for private meetings that we've had to have some there - in public (irony!), so on the flip side, I see it as a work related place - not conducive to enjoyment. Bah, gimme the corner Irish Bar where nobody knows my name***, but has a fresh Guinness on tap, and a damned good bacon mushroom cheeseburger with a side of fries (and malt vinegar), no cat to ask for my slice of pecan pie**** or 20+ year old single malt scotch (made in Scotland of course!) and I'm a happy, damed, cyperpunk for fuck's sake! * Sly Beavis and Butthead refrence ** Slyer still South Park refrence - at least it doesn't taste like vomit. :) **1/2 - Tweak character out of South Park referring to episode featuring Harbucks. *** Obligatory anonimity refrence - to keep this on topic - not that anyone cares anymore about not pissing in the pool like 2nd graders**** **** South Park again, what else. ----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--------------------------- + ^ + :NSA got $20Bil/year |Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\ \|/ :and didn't stop 9-11|share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\ <--*-->:Instead of rewarding|monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/ /|\ :their failures, we |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/ + v + :should get refunds! |site, and you must change them very often. --------_sunder_ at _sunder_._net_------- http://www.sunder.net ------------ On Sun, 19 Jan 2003, Jay h wrote: > ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- > From: Matthew X > Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 20:47:49 +1100 > > >street, and through the windows of a Starbucks and a Victoria's Secret. > > Yes all those evil weapons of mass destruction made by Victoria's Secret... they MUST BE STOPPED! > > The obsession with Starbucks really puzzles me. Starbucks is one of the few mass retailers that actually offers medical coverage to even part timers, it allows people to move from place to place and pick up employment at another store, their policies have always been actively supportive of people discriminated against elsewhere such as lesbian and gay, and unlike Walmart, their prices pose no threat to the beloved 'mom and pop' stores in a community. It would seem there are better targets to attack as the evil tools of oppression. > > j > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > Sent via the WebMail system at 1st.net > From hseaver at cybershamanix.com Mon Jan 20 18:41:59 2003 From: hseaver at cybershamanix.com (Harmon Seaver) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 20:41:59 -0600 Subject: Atlas Shrugs in Venezuela In-Reply-To: <3E2C384A.28387.22A5F39@localhost> References: <3E2BB41E.4932.261400@localhost> <3E2C384A.28387.22A5F39@localhost> Message-ID: <20030121024159.GA27930@cybershamanix.com> On Mon, Jan 20, 2003 at 05:56:26PM -0800, James A. Donald wrote: > On 20 Jan 2003 at 10:42, Harmon Seaver wrote: > > Well, but only a strike of the executives and some > > technicians. Not of the general workers. > > When they bring out the army against the strikers as well as > foreign scab labor, it is the workers. Nope, not a chance. Most of the people out on strike were executives -- and believe me, managers can never be considered workers. Talk to any working stiff, they'd laugh their butt off at the idea. Having spent a good many years working as a logger and other manual labor professions, I consider it an insult to the working man to call execs "workers". I think it's great Chavez fired them all. And actually, I'm even wondering if they need any "scab" sysadmins. That might be very cool, to get a decent job in what is beginning to look like one heck of a lot better place to live than the US. It's pretty clear by now that last Spring's attempted coup and the current strike was all engineered by the CIA and the current whitehouse scum. Chaves must be a pretty decent guy if he's not rounding up all those bozos who were making the trips to DC just before the coup. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com From kmself at ix.netcom.com Mon Jan 20 13:41:01 2003 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 21:41:01 +0000 Subject: [linux-elitists] LOCAL Stanford University: face down the DMCA enforcers (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20030120000843.C1810@cluebot.com> References: <20030120000843.C1810@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <20030120214101.GI31234@ganymede> on Mon, Jan 20, 2003 at 12:08:43AM -0500, Declan McCullagh (declan at well.com) wrote: > I suspect would be silly to stage an anti-DMCA protest against an > invited speaker to that Stanford class. Lessig, Gilmore, Barlow, > Farber, and Stallman have been speakers (and I'm scheduled to be in > the spring lineup). Gilmore and others have also been audience members. The CPRM lecture was attended by John, myself, and other concerned community members. > At the very least, it makes sense to find out more about the program > and have a cordial conversation with the organizers before rushing to > stage a demonstration. Activist-hours are a scarce resource; use them > prudently, carefully, and wisely. The forums are *open to the public*. A proportionate response is both expected and apprpriate. Why should a presentation at this venue be any different from protests of immoral principles or activities in any other context? Peace. -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What Part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? Moderator, Free Software Law Discussion mailing list: http://lists.alt.org/mailman/listinfo/fsl-discuss/ From mv at cdc.gov Tue Jan 21 09:39:42 2003 From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret)) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 09:39:42 -0800 Subject: And another one bites the dust: Dissent Takedown Message-ID: <3E2D85DE.4A49B826@cdc.gov> [x] move supplies & troops [x] add Turkey, Saudis to shopping cart [x] work domestic propoganda machine [x] quiet Wellstone [x] shut Ritter up Channel Six News has learned former UN Weapons Inspector and Delmar resident Scott Ritter was arrested during an Internet sex sting operation. But it turns out police caught Ritter months before, but declined to press charges. Sources tell us Ritter tried to meet a 14 year-old girl he chatted with online. He was instead met by police officers, who let him go. Ritter was arrested in June of 2001 for allegedly trying to lure a 16 year-old girl he met online to a Burger King. But that girl was really an undercover cop- surfing the web as part of a police sting operation. Ritter was charged with attempted endangerment of a child. But the charge was dismissed and the case sealed. That means, essentially, that it never happened. Ritter searched Iraq for weapons in the years following the Gulf War. More recently, he's been speaking out against President Bush's policies on Iraq and is frequently seen on local and national television. http://www.wrgb.com/news/local/local_news.asp#H1 ALBANY, NY, Jan. 20 - More details are emerging about the June 2001 arrest of former U.N. weapons inspector Scott Ritter of Delmar. He was apparently arrested by Colonie police as part of Internet sex sting. The Schenectady Daily Gazette reports Ritter was under investigation for a similar incident two months earlier. http://www.msnbc.com/local/WNYT/M264375.asp From declan at well.com Tue Jan 21 10:35:26 2003 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:35:26 -0500 Subject: Forget VOA -- new exec order creating Global Communications Office Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030121132935.00ba9e98@mail.well.com> THE WHITE HOUSE Office of the Press Secretary FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE January 21, 2003 New White House Office Coordinates Global Communications Why? The President understands the importance of conveying America 's message to the world. Better coordination of our international communications will help convey the truth about America and the goals we share with people everywhere. He knows we need to communicate our policies and values to the world ? with greater clarity and through dialogue with emerging voices around the globe. Created by Executive Order of the President, this new office within the White House coordinates strategic communications with global audiences, integrating the President's themes into new and ongoing programs. The New Office of Global Communications The Office of Global Communications (OGC) advises on the strategic direction and themes that United States government agencies use to reach foreign audiences. The Office assists in the development of communications programs that disseminate truthful, accurate, and effective messages about the American people and their government. With State Department Public Diplomacy and Public Affairs remaining at the frontlines of international communications, Global Communications coordinates the work of many agencies and Americans to convey a few simple but powerful messages. These will be aimed to prevent misunderstanding and conflict, build support for and among United States coalition partners, and better inform international audiences. Lessons learned from the temporary Coalition Information Centers (CIC) have been applied to the new Office. Created to react to our adversaries' misinformation, CIC quickly proved that White House-led efforts could facilitate strategic, proactive communications in the war on terror. Last year's focus on the liberation of women in Afghanistan is a prime example. Working closely with the communications office of the Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs, Global Communications recently coordinated communications about the Administration's Ramadan activity and the President's views on Islam. Recognizing the value of remotely deployed coalition information centers, the President has authorized the new Office to coordinate with the appropriate agencies the creation of teams of communicators to work in areas of intense global media interest. No such team is currently operating, but OGC is organized to move swiftly in cooperation with other US government agencies and coalition partners. America's Message to the World This new office assists the President in communicating his message to the world -- dignity, security and liberty for all people, everywhere. The "non-negotiable demands of human dignity" and the National Security Strategy's focus on peace and freedom are US Government policy, but they are also universal aspirations. As such, they provide a framework for more listening and greater dialogue around the globe, and a framework in which OGC will coordinate a variety of new efforts. As the President says, we value the dignity of all human life. Family, learning and generosity, both here at home and around the world, are central to prosperity and peace for all. Meanwhile, for security's sake, we seek to defend, preserve and extend the peace. The President's strategy makes clear that peace is defended by fighting terror and tyranny. Peace is preserved with good relations among great powers. And peace is extended by encouraging free and open societies. And America must always stand for liberty. As the President plainly states, freedom is God's gift to every single person. Freedom is also the one true model for national success. Different circumstances require different methods ? we help societies so they can choose for themselves the rewards of political and economic freedom. New Initiatives The President understands that reaching global audiences ? especially people who are open to the truth but unsure or critical of some aspects of America ? will take many years, but we must begin to make a difference now. OGC coordination efforts focus on 1) daily messages, 2) communications planning, and 3) long-term strategy. 1. OGC produces The Global Messenger, a one-page fact sheet sent world-wide to disseminate key points and daily activities on global issues. OGC leads a daily conference call of Administration leaders to coordinate near-term and mid-range communications planning. The office also works closely with the State and Defense Departments to ensure rapid response to allegations and rumors in the war on terror. 2. The new office coordinated themes and events to support the President's successful drive for Congressional and U.N. support for disarming Saddam Hussein. OGC is coordinating efforts to reveal the disinformation and propaganda of the Iraqi regime, including the publication of Apparatus of Lies: Saddam's Disinformation and Propaganda, 1990-2003. Working closely with the Pentagon and all relevant agencies, OGC is coordinating the launch of new reconstruction initiatives in Afghanistan. Also, from time to time, OGC facilitates the organization of teams of communicators to be sent proactively to foreign or domestic areas of high global interest and media attention. For example, one such team worked with the international media gathered in Kabul, Afghanistan for the Loya Jirga. This effort underscored the ongoing US and coalition commitment to rebuilding the country and restoring liberty. 3. OGC will coordinate government-wide efforts to convey America's message to the world by improving communications about US humanitarian and pro-democracy efforts. Drawing on the President's outreach to Arab and Muslim audiences, OGC is working closely with the State Department to increase our interaction with existing pan-Arab news media. Also, the Office is studying new ways to reach Muslim audiences directly via US-supported broadcasting. ### THE WHITE HOUSE Office of the Press Secretary _____________ For Immediate Release January 21, 2003 EXECUTIVE ORDER - - - - - - - ESTABLISHING THE OFFICE OF GLOBAL COMMUNICATIONS By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, it is hereby ordered as follows: Section 1. Establishment of the Office of Global Communications. There is hereby established within the White House Office an Office of Global Communications (the "Office") to be headed by a Deputy Assistant to the President for Global Communications. Sec. 2. Mission. The mission of the Office shall be to advise the President, the heads of appropriate offices within the Executive Office of the President, and the heads of executive departments and agencies (agencies) on utilization of the most effective means for the United States Government to ensure consistency in messages that will promote the interests of the United States abroad, prevent misunderstanding, build support for and among coalition partners of the United States, and inform international audiences. The Office shall provide such advice on activities in which the role of the United States Government is apparent or publicly acknowledged. Sec. 3. Functions. In carrying out its mission: (a) The Office shall assess the methods and strategies used by the United States Government (other than special activities as defined in Executive Order 12333 of December 4, 1981) to deliver information to audiences abroad. The Office shall coordinate the formulation among appropriate agencies of messages that reflect the strategic communications framework and priorities of the United States, and shall facilitate the development of a strategy among the appropriate agencies to effectively communicate such messages. (b) The Office shall work with the policy and communi-cations offices of agencies in developing a strategy for disseminating truthful, accurate, and effective messages about the United States, its Government and policies, and the American people and culture. The Office may, after consulting with the Department of State and obtaining the approval of the Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs on the President's behalf, work with cooperating foreign governments in the develop-ment of the strategy. In performing its work, the Office shall coordinate closely and regularly with the Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs, or the Assistant's designee. (c) The Office shall work with appropriate agencies to coordinate the creation of temporary teams of communicators for short-term placement in areas of high global interest and media attention as determined by the Office. Team members shall include personnel from agencies to the extent permitted by law more (OVER) 2 and subject to the availability of personnel. In performing its functions, each information team shall work to disseminate accurate and timely information about topics of interest to the on-site news media, and assist media personnel in obtaining access to information, individuals, and events that reinforce the strategic communications objectives of the United States and its allies. The Office shall coordinate when and where information teams should be deployed; provided, however, no information team shall be deployed abroad without prior consultation with the Department of State and the Department of Defense, and prior notification to the Office of the Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs. (d) The Office shall encourage the use of state-of-the-art media and technology and shall advise the United States Government of events, technologies, and other communications tools that may be available for use in conveying information. Sec. 4. Administration. The Office of Administration within the Executive Office of the President shall provide the Office with administrative and related support, to the extent permitted by law and subject to the availability of appropria-tions, as directed by the Chief of Staff to the President to carry out the provisions of this order. Sec. 5. Relationship to Other Interagency Coordinating Mechanisms. Presidential direction regarding National Security Council-related mechanisms for coordination of national security policy shall apply with respect to the Office in the same manner as it applies with respect to other elements of the White House Office. Nothing in this order shall be construed to impair or otherwise affect any function assigned by law or by the President to the National Security Council or to the Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs. Sec. 6. Continuing Authorities. This order does not alter the existing authorities of any agency. Agencies shall assist the Deputy Assistant to the President for Global Communications, to the extent consistent with applicable law and direction of the President, and to the extent such assistance is consistent with national security objectives and with the mission of such agencies, in carrying out the Office's mission. Sec. 7. General Provisions. (a) This order is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or equity by any party against the United States, its agencies, instrumentalities or entities, its officers or employees, or any other person. (b) Nothing in this order shall be construed to grant to the Office any authority to issue direction to agencies, officers, or employees. GEORGE W. BUSH THE WHITE HOUSE, January 21, 2003. # # # From fm at espace.net Tue Jan 21 14:36:40 2003 From: fm at espace.net (Fearghas McKay) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:36:40 -0800 Subject: Fwd: HiveCache - P2P Backups Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text From: Peter Gradwell (by way of Fearghas McKay ) To: fm at espace.net Subject: HiveCache - P2P Backups Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:04:35 -0800 Hello Apologies for the intrusion. As well has running an ISP, I have an interest in Grid Computing systems and micro accounting architectures. As part of the interest, I would like to deploy a product called HiveCache (www.hivecache.com) to my customer base, and others interested. HiveCache is a p2p backup system where by you define an amount of disk space available on your machine (which is connected via broadband of course!) and vice versa, your files get split up, encrypted and then stored on everyone elses' disk space. HiveCache does all sorts of clever things, like making sure enough copies are kept in various places, files are split & encrypted, allowing you to retrieve them, etc. Ultimately, I would like to faciliate a system where by we act as a clearing house so that users can buy & sell disk space & resources. In order to get going however, I would like to take part in the HiveCache pilot. To do this, I require 25-50 willing volunteers. You will need: - an always on broadband connection - a few gig of spare disk space - a little enthusiasm and a willingness to return comments If that sounds like you, then please could you drop an email to hivecache at gradwell.net stating your - name, - email, - type of internet connection and - what operating system you're running on. Any questions, let me know. many thanks peter -- peter gradwell. gradwell dot com Ltd. http://www.gradwell.com/ engineering & hosting services for email, web and usenet --- end forwarded text --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From fm at espace.net Tue Jan 21 14:36:40 2003 From: fm at espace.net (Fearghas McKay) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:36:40 -0800 Subject: Fwd: HiveCache - P2P Backups Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text From: Peter Gradwell (by way of Fearghas McKay ) To: fm at espace.net Subject: HiveCache - P2P Backups Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:04:35 -0800 Hello Apologies for the intrusion. As well has running an ISP, I have an interest in Grid Computing systems and micro accounting architectures. As part of the interest, I would like to deploy a product called HiveCache (www.hivecache.com) to my customer base, and others interested. HiveCache is a p2p backup system where by you define an amount of disk space available on your machine (which is connected via broadband of course!) and vice versa, your files get split up, encrypted and then stored on everyone elses' disk space. HiveCache does all sorts of clever things, like making sure enough copies are kept in various places, files are split & encrypted, allowing you to retrieve them, etc. Ultimately, I would like to faciliate a system where by we act as a clearing house so that users can buy & sell disk space & resources. In order to get going however, I would like to take part in the HiveCache pilot. To do this, I require 25-50 willing volunteers. You will need: - an always on broadband connection - a few gig of spare disk space - a little enthusiasm and a willingness to return comments If that sounds like you, then please could you drop an email to hivecache at gradwell.net stating your - name, - email, - type of internet connection and - what operating system you're running on. Any questions, let me know. many thanks peter -- peter gradwell. gradwell dot com Ltd. http://www.gradwell.com/ engineering & hosting services for email, web and usenet --- end forwarded text --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From jamesd at echeque.com Tue Jan 21 17:44:59 2003 From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 17:44:59 -0800 Subject: Atlas Shrugs in Venezuela In-Reply-To: <20030121024159.GA27930@cybershamanix.com> References: <3E2C384A.28387.22A5F39@localhost> Message-ID: <3E2D871B.1315.23CD2D0@localhost> -- Harmon Seaver: > > > Well, but only a strike of the executives and some > > > technicians. Not of the general workers. James A. Donald: > > When they bring out the army against the strikers as well > > as foreign scab labor, it is the workers. Harmon Seaver: > Nope, not a chance. Most of the people out on strike were > executives Then why the army? > It's pretty clear by now that last Spring's attempted coup > and the current strike was all engineered by the CIA and the > current whitehouse scum. Then why the army and the guest worker scab laborers? --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG HF32U1ydzozTdZ6i7yRo/SgdkaZuGDrT5P2V9z6i 4YTrwmYIFejPLVEGKL7Y3nFQ6Mg+g07DVuTLLqTN2 From rah at shipwright.com Tue Jan 21 20:42:28 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 23:42:28 -0500 Subject: Fwd: HiveCache - P2P Backups Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Jan 21 21:34:19 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 00:34:19 -0500 Subject: Fwd: HiveCache - P2P Backups Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text From camera_lumina at hotmail.com Wed Jan 22 07:06:59 2003 From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 10:06:59 -0500 Subject: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and "minorities" is about to begin Message-ID: Tim May wrote... "Ain't gonna be a lot of negroes and Mexicans after this war is over. (I'm not a racist. It's their leaders and their ideology that is to blame. These leaders have led their followers to acts which cannot be forgiven, and which must be punished by death. Nearly all of them need killing for what they have done, regardless of which mischief-makers taught them their mischief.)" What a bunch of silly bullshit. This is the view of blacks one gets by watching TV. The vast majority of blacks in this country don't have a "leader" per se. What percentage of black folks do you think "follow" Al Sharpton, Farrakhan, or anyone else for that matter? Ah well. Not a lot of black folks in his part of Silicon Valley, I guess. Tim May needs to get out more and stop watching COPS or whatever. -TD >From: Tim May >To: cypherpunks at lne.com >Subject: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and "minorities" is >about to begin >Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 21:54:34 -0800 > >On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, at 11:55 AM, Anonymous wrote: > >>I'm sure that I do nothing new in drawing parallels between the occurences >>in George Orwell's seminal text "1984" and the founding of the Information >>Awareness Office. It is nothing short of terrifying that someone wants to >>gather all digital information on anyone and everyone into a giant >>database >>for the purpose of finding out who is a social "undesirable" and who >>isn't. >> We are moving into another glorious age, where one may come under >>scrutiny >>due to the books and films that we rent, the clothes that we buy, and the >>places >>that we visit. This has happened before and will probably happen again >>and >>we will still probably learn nothing from it. My question is why is >>everyone >>so apathetic about this? > >But we're NOT apathetic about this. Many of us have acquired the usual >assault rifles, explosives, etc., and we anticipate the onset of >Revolution. Look to anonymous remailers, militias, and depots as the reason >the free man has been preparing. > >I expect 20 million to die. Fortunately, 18 million of them will be the >usual Democrat, Commies, welfare recipients, negro activists, and >Socialist fellow travellers. The other two million will be the Bushies. And >proably most of the remaining Jews will be scourged, as payment for their >support of thefts, of Zionism, etc. Sounds fair to me. > >Ain't gonna be a lot of negroes and Mexicans after this war is over. (I'm >not a racist. It's their leaders and their ideology that is to blame. These >leaders have led their followers to acts which cannot be forgiven, and >which must be punished by death. Nearly all of them need killing for what >they have done, regardless of which mischief-makers taught them their >mischief.) > >We should be cheerful about this upcoming burn-off of twenty million >negroes, Mexicans, Jews, and liberals will mean. > >--Tim May _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From ji at research.att.com Wed Jan 22 13:49:03 2003 From: ji at research.att.com (John Ioannidis) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 16:49:03 -0500 Subject: Fwd: HiveCache - P2P Backups In-Reply-To: ; from R. A. Hettinga on Tue, Jan 21, 2003 at 11:42:28PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20030122164903.A5929@bual.research.att.com> Take a look at the following paper: @inproceedings{fileteller, author = {John Ioannidis and Sotiris Ioannidis and Angelos Keromytis and Vass ilis Prevelakis}, title = {{Fileteller: Paying and Getting Paid for File Storage}}, booktitle = {Proceedings of the Sixth International Conference on Financial C ryptography}, month = {March}, year = {2002} } On Tue, Jan 21, 2003 at 11:42:28PM -0500, R. A. Hettinga wrote: > > --- begin forwarded text > > > Status: RO > Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:36:40 -0800 > To: usual at espace.net > From: Fearghas McKay > Subject: Fwd: HiveCache - P2P Backups > Reply-To: "Usual People List" > Sender: > > > --- begin forwarded text > > > From: Peter Gradwell (by way of Fearghas McKay > ) > To: fm at espace.net > Subject: HiveCache - P2P Backups > Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:04:35 -0800 > > Hello > > Apologies for the intrusion. As well has running an ISP, I have an > interest in Grid Computing systems and micro accounting architectures. > > As part of the interest, I would like to deploy a product called > HiveCache (www.hivecache.com) to my customer base, and others > interested. > > HiveCache is a p2p backup system where by you define an amount of disk > space available on your machine (which is connected via broadband of > course!) and vice versa, your files get split up, encrypted and then > stored on everyone elses' disk space. > > HiveCache does all sorts of clever things, like making sure enough > copies are kept in various places, files are split & encrypted, > allowing you to retrieve them, etc. > > Ultimately, I would like to faciliate a system where by we act as a > clearing house so that users can buy & sell disk space & resources. > > In order to get going however, I would like to take part in the > HiveCache pilot. To do this, I require 25-50 willing volunteers. > > You will need: > > - an always on broadband connection > - a few gig of spare disk space > - a little enthusiasm and a willingness to return comments > > If that sounds like you, then please could you drop an email to > hivecache at gradwell.net stating your > - name, > - email, > - type of internet connection and > - what operating system you're running on. > > Any questions, let me know. > > many thanks > peter > > -- > peter gradwell. gradwell dot com Ltd. http://www.gradwell.com/ > engineering & hosting services for email, web and usenet > > --- end forwarded text > > --- end forwarded text > > > -- > ----------------- > R. A. Hettinga > The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation > 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA > "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, > [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to > experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > The Cryptography Mailing List > Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From mix at anon.lcs.mit.edu Wed Jan 22 10:40:22 2003 From: mix at anon.lcs.mit.edu (lcs Mixmaster Remailer) Date: 22 Jan 2003 18:40:22 -0000 Subject: Forget VOA -- new exec order creating Global Communications Office Message-ID: <20030122184022.5429.qmail@nym.alias.net> On Wed, 22 Jan 2003 10:01:09 -0500, you wrote: > This is also pretty clear, no? It basically says > "The truth is, our goal is to dominate the world, > and we have operatives and cronies everywhere who > share our goals, so stay out of our way and Don't > Fuck With Us". Actually, it is reality not a goal. A better statement would be "The US dominates the world, and if you act otherwise, we will kill you. If you think otherwise, we will find out and you will become a "person of interest" and placed on the "no-fly" and TIA watch lists. And if you are a US citizen, remember you are a check mark away from being an "enemy combatant" in a military prison of our choosing, with no lawyer, no judge, no appeal to anyone, anywhere, forever." The US is no longer content to be #1. It demands respect for being #1 thru #200, inclusive. From rah at shipwright.com Thu Jan 23 06:10:18 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:10:18 -0500 Subject: Sixth Annual Digital Money Forum Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text From wolf at priori.net Thu Jan 23 09:36:25 2003 From: wolf at priori.net (Meyer Wolfsheim) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:36:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: Matt Blaze Does Master Keys In-Reply-To: <200301231652.h0NGqMc13973@artifact.psychedelic.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Eric Cordian wrote: > Nonetheless, it's an interesting story. > > I should note that the high security building I live regards master keying > doors as a bad thing to do, and they have a key board and a signout > sheet in the main office. > > http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/23/business/23LOCK.html l/p=cpunx/cpunx I have to think that Matt is being satirical here. This is hardly news, as any locksmith can tell you. (This is one of the reasons that some lock companies restrict the sale of key blanks, and others (such as Medeco or ASSA) require keys be made by the original supplier, using unique key blanks.) -MW- From dave at chyp.com Thu Jan 23 03:48:04 2003 From: dave at chyp.com (David G.W. Birch) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 11:48:04 +0000 Subject: Sixth Annual Digital Money Forum Message-ID: Hi Bob, Can you pass this on in the usual places... Many thanks... ......... the sixth annual Consult Hyperion forum ......... .............. D I G I T A L ... M O N E Y ................ "No other conference in our industry compares" Jack Selby, VP Intl. Business Development, Paypal sponsored by Vodafone supported by NCipher and American Express London April 2nd/3rd, 2003 .......................The Event............................ Now in its sixth year, the annual Digital Money Forum will be two days of interactive discussion and debate from the centre of the digital money world. The Forum is not about technology or marketing: it is about the whole subject of the digitisation of money and the implications of that process for individuals, businesses and governments. A central theme of the sixth forum will be the resurgence of interest in new technologies for cash replacement: peer-to-peer electronic payment, contactless smart cards, mobile phones as mobile wallets and so on. Both speakers and delegates will be leaders in the field, looking at the evolution of retail electronic payments from the consumer, regulatory, bank, merchant, legal, sociological and other perspectives. With experts in financial systems, interactive TV, mobile commerce, mass transit, retail and related subjects gathered together, the Forum will continue to be the place to be for anyone who wants to understand Digital Money. Last year, the audience came from Europe, North America and the Far East to discuss topics ranging from the plans of banks and payment schemes and new European regulation to commodity and community currencies. This year, the subjects already on the agenda include the success of mass transit operators in replacing cash at points of sale to mobile payment schemes and from the digitisation of local exchange trading systems to electronic cash in developing countries. .....................The Programme.......................... Keynote speakers: Riel Miller from the OECD on the future of money Economist, author, journalist and BBC broadcaster Diane Coyle Presentations by: Simon Lelieveldt from the Dutch Electronic Money Association Andrew Smith from the London Transport Prestige scheme Michael Linton of Open Money covering LETS Roy Cosway, Cornish Key Card, setting out local govt. requirements. Toni Merschen, head of Chip & Mobile Payments at MasterCard Gerry Looby of Cardbase reporting on the Nigerian national e-purse Edgar Kampers describing the Dutch "Green Money" scheme in Utrecht Dominic Peachey of the Financial Service Authority on regulation Jim Wadsworth of Vodafone, talking about their m-pay scheme and others There are also expert panels including Sandra Alzetta of Visa International on m-payments Jof Walters of Egg sharing experiences in bank P2P Cyprien Goddard of iPin on microbilling Please note that due to the continued success of the Forum, we have again decided to limit the number of places in order to preserve the much-valued interactive nature of the event. Further information can be found at the Forum web site http://www.digitalmoneyforum.com/ Thanks to the generosity of our sponsors, the Forum will again cost only 595 pounds Sterling per person excluding VAT. The fee includes the forum, documentation, meals, cocktails and drinks around the champagne tables. This is a not-for-profit event and any surplus generated is distributed, as in previous years, to a variety of mainly local charities. Recent beneficiaries of our events have including the Fountain Centre for Palliative Cancer Care and the Surrey Centre for the Visually Impaired. For further information or to reserve a place please contact Gloria Benson Telephone +44 1483 301793 Fax +44 1483 561657 ============================================================ --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From rah at shipwright.com Fri Jan 24 04:50:58 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 07:50:58 -0500 Subject: JILT: New Rules for Anonymous Electronic Transactions? An Exploration of the Private Law Implications of Digital Anonymity Message-ID: http://elj.warwick.ac.uk/jilt/01-2/grijpink.html Contents Abstract 1. Introduction 2. Key Question 2.1 Explanation 3. Anonymity: A Question of Degree 4. The Social Significance of Anonymity 5. The Legal Implications of Absolute Anonymity Under Private Law 5.1 Absolute Anonymity Under Contract Law 5.1.1 Absolutely Anonymous Electronic Contracts 5.1.2 Problems Concerning the Implementation of an Absolutely Anonymous Contract 5.2 Absolute Anonymity Under the Law of Property 6. Semi-Anonymity 6.1 Semi-Anonymity Under Contract Law 6.1.1 Semi-Anonymous Contracts 6.1.2 Problems Concerning the Implementation of the Semi-Anonymous Contract 6.2 Semi-Anonymity Under Property Law 7. Are New Legal Structures Desirable? 7.1 Prevention or Cure 7.2 Legislation or Self-Regulation 7.3 Renovation or Building From Scratch 8. Conclusion Notes and References Download New Rules for Anonymous Electronic Transactions? An Exploration of the Private Law Implications of Digital Anonymity [1] Dr Jan Grijpink Principal Adviser, Dutch Ministry of Justice jgrijpin at best-dep.minjus.nl Professor Dr Corien Prins [2] Professor of Law and Informatisation, Tilburg University, The Netherlands J.E.J.Prins at kub.nl Abstract For various reasons, most prominently privacy considerations, consumers on the Internet become reluctant to reveal their true identity. Different techniques and services have recently been developed which make Internet activities, such as surfing, anonymous. Facilities are also available to provide individuals with a pseudo-identity. This article explores the status of anonymous electronic transactions under the Dutch private law system and analyses whether new legal rules are required to protect consumer interests. Keywords: Anonymity, Semi-anonymity, Pseudo Identity, Private Law, Privacy, Smartcards, International Regulation, Intermediary, Self-regulation, Legislation, Consumer Protection. This is a Refereed article published on 2 July 2001. Citation: Grijpink J H A M and Prins J E J , 'New Rules for Anonymous Electronic Transactions? An Exploration of the Private Law Implications of Digital Anonymity', 2001 (2) The Journal of Information, Law and Technology (JILT) . 1. Introduction Lately, anonymous communications on the Internet have gained considerable attention. A New Jersey state court judge ruled in November 2000 that a software company is not entitled to learn the identities of two 'John Doe' defendants who anonymously posted critical comments on a Yahoo message board[ 3]. Fall 2000, Ian Avrum Goldberg's dissertation on A Pseudonymous Communications Infrastructure for the Internet received world-wide publicity[ 4].Ongoing concerns of digital privacy stimulate the debates about possible ways to avoid being 'profiled' on the Net and communicate anonymously. Anonymous communication raises various (legal) questions. What exactly do we mean by anonymity? Why would people want to communicate and transact on an anonymous basis? What are the practical and legal restraints upon anonymity when communicating and transacting with others? In other words: aside from the ad-hoc problems that now arise under case law, what is the larger landscape of the legal consequences of anonymity? This article sets out the most important conclusions of the first stage of a study into the dimensions of digital anonymity. It is intended to set out the problem, make people aware of the intricacies of the problem and thus stimulate the debate on useful legal structures for anonymity. The article focuses on the private law dimensions, addressing situations where consumers want to purchase anonymously on the Internet. With the purpose of directing the key question towards future developments in information technology, the study is based on a picture of the future in which the large scale use of anonymous electronic transactions occupies an important position. We hereby take the chip card as an illustrative example and focus on the Dutch legal situation. Finally, it should be mentioned that this study forms part of a broader search for sustainable legal and organisational transformation processes arising from new information and communication technology[ 5]. The article is laid out as follows. Section 2 provides an outline of the key question into new law for digital anonymity and some background information. Anonymity is a concept that is subject to multiple interpretations, an issue that is discussed in section 3. The key question is only worth addressing if absolutely anonymous electronic legal transactions are technically feasible, and we can put forward a plausible case supporting the practical significance of anonymity in electronic legal transactions. We will set forth that case in section 4. Section 5 outlines the status of an absolutely anonymous contract under private law, contract law and property law. This provides an idea of the room that current private law offers for anonymous legal transactions, which is a good starting point for answering the question of whether these provisions will be adequate when it comes to the widespread anonymous use of chip cards. In section 6 we look into the legal status of less absolute forms of anonymity in legal transactions (semi-anonymity). To answer the question concerning the desired legal development, in section 7 we address the role that the law will have to play if a situation arises in which anonymous electronic legal transactions dislocate vulnerable legal relationships. We will then examine two alternatives for the development of new law: based on our own Dutch law or derived from foreign law. These considerations lead in section 8 to conclusions regarding the extent to which the risks of anonymous electronic legal transactions will in the future necessitate the introduction of new legal rules. Given that legal development takes so much more time than the introduction and distribution of new technology, it is of great importance to gain early insight into the direction in which the law can best develop in response to new technology. That is the underlying motive behind this part of the overall study and the justification for directly reporting on the first preliminary results, in the hope that this will set in motion a discussion that offers prospects for timely legislation should the need arise. 8. Conclusion In this paragraph we formulate our preliminary response to the question of the extent to which the risks of anonymous electronic legal transactions will in the future necessitate new private law structures, what these structures will probably relate to and the direction in which this development of law could occur. Our legal culture places prevention above a distribution of incurred losses, so that we anticipate that digital anonymity will be regulated as much as possible rather than compensated for in insurance constructions. In the case of absolutely anonymous and semi-anonymous contracts we have noted that the space for these legal transactions is limited (contract law), or is completely absent (property law). In a nutshell, it can be said that knowledge of a person's identity is not a legal requirement under contract law. Parties that knowingly take the risk of entering into a contract with an absolutely anonymous or semi-anonymous party bear the risk of the adverse consequences of a shortcoming. If the identity of the other party cannot be determined, the party in question will face the same situation as he would in the physical world: he will receive neither what the other party was obliged to provide, nor any compensation for damages. A consequence of this nature is acceptable and its implications are kept within reasonable limits if people only act semi-anonymously to a modest extent. The question remains, however, of whether this will be the case if widespread use is made of the possibility to surf, order and pay absolutely anonymously or spontaneously semi-anonymously in an electronic environment. We feel that widespread anonymous actions are accompanied by so many new risks to the various parties involved that this will lead to imbalances in the legal relationships, which will give the legislator cause to seek solutions to protect vulnerable parties and interests. Cases in point include suppliers demanding full payment in advance in an electronic contract entered into at a distance, stringent exoneration clauses and unfavourable proof stipulations. With regard to the content of the possible new legal structures, it is likely that in our Dutch legal culture we will first be induced to search for ways of extending existing formal regulations that limit the possible use of absolute anonymity. In order to respond to a growing need for anonymity in legal transactions, the regulations for organised semi-anonymity could also be extended (e.g. under property law), so that it will be possible to break through a person's anonymity retrospectively if necessitated by court order or by the law. Organised semi-anonymity (or pseudonymity) in legal transactions is therefore a useful weapon against a number of disadvantages of acting absolutely anonymously or spontaneously semi-anonymously, while retaining the envisaged protection of privacy. It is only with the guarantee of this organised protection of a person's true identity without that being abused, that identity fraud can be kept under control and that pseudonyms can provide anonymity towards third parties without damaging the legal order. That is not to say that this form of anonymous legal transaction is easy to organise[ 25 ]. Beyond private law, it will require extra regulations under administrative law, such as an extension of the obligation of public and private bodies to check their clients' identity, of the duty of people to provide proof of identity and public-private co-operation in verifying people's identities and in testing the soundness of general and contractual proofs of identity. Apart from political and social issues that will have to be solved in an international context, bringing about the information infrastructure needed for this purpose will also take a lot of time and money. But balancing the interests of protecting privacy and the need for anonymity in the future information society on the one hand, and those of the legal order on the other, makes extending organised semi-anonymity in our legal culture an attractive course to take for vulnerable transactions. Because both of the above solution directions under Dutch law will reinforce already existing tendencies towards 'juridification' of our society without internationally achieving the envisaged legal protection under Dutch law, we feel that it is desirable to look into how more space can be created for reliable legal transactions on an absolutely anonymous basis, perhaps under our property law as well. This relates in the first place to absolutely anonymous transactions that are of less social importance and whose disadvantages can easily be insured. It also concerns socially important, vulnerable transactions that already tend to be settled on an absolutely anonymous basis world-wide. By way of making a first move in that direction, we feel that it seems in any event desirable to look into the extent to which already existing foreign legal structures such as the agency are suitable for this purpose, and whether this could be incorporated into legal systems that are not familiar with these structures, such as the Dutch legal system. At issue here are the trust in anonymous electronic transactions, consumer protection, combating identity fraud and, let us not forget: the issue of legal certainty when border-transgressing anonymous transactions are involved. Given that the development of law takes so much more time than the introduction and distribution of new technology, it is of great importance to gain early insight into the direction in which Dutch law can best develop in response to more digital anonymity. The importance of new concepts and rules for digital anonymity in legal transactions makes it desirable to discuss and perform research into the directions proposed here, paying attention to the effect that derivation from foreign law has on the key principles of private law systems that are not familiar with such directions. Notes and References 1.The Dutch version of this article has been published in: Nederlands Tijdschrift voor Burgerlijk Recht [Dutch Journal of Private Law], NTBR 2001-4, Kluwer, Deventer. The article is also due to be published in the Computer Law & Security Report, July/August 2001. 2. Dr. J.H.A.M. Grijpink is Principal Adviser at the Dutch Ministry of Justice . Prof. Dr. J.E.J. Prins is Professor of Law and Informatisation at Tilburg University, the Netherlands < J.E.J.Prins at kub.nl >. The authors are highly grateful for the contribution of Chris Nicoll, University of Auckland (New Zealand) to paragraph 7.3. 3. The court's decision is available at: < http://www.citizen.org/litigation/briefs/dendrite.pdf >. 4. Available at: . 5. This research programme is an initiative of the Expertise Centre 'Globalization and sustainable development' at Tilburg University < http://globus.kub.nl >. The part of the research discussed here was conducted in collaboration between the Centre for Law, Public Administration and Informatisation at Tilburg University and the Directorate of Strategy Development of the Dutch Ministry of Justice. 6. An isolated (without personal details) person-related biometric characteristic, from which one can derive that the person acting is the right one, but not precisely who he is. For a more detailed discussion of biometrics, reference is made to: van Kralingen, R, Prins J E J and Grijpink, J H AM (1999), 'Het lichaam als sleutel. Juridische beschouwingen over biometrie' ('The body as the key. Legal considerations on biometrics') in Van den Berg & Schmidt (eds) National Programme for Information Technology and Law (IteR), No. 8 (Alphen aan de Rijn: Samson) and Grijpink J.H.A.M. (1999) 'Biometrie als anonieme bewaker van uw identiteit' ('Biometrics as an anonymous guard of your identity'), Beveiliging no. 5, May 1999 pp.22 ff. (Amsterdam: Keesing Bedrijfsinformatie). 7. See: van Klink, B, Prins, J E J, and Witteveen W J, (2000), 'Het conceptuele tekort' ('The conceptual gap') (The Hague: Infodrome < http://www.infodrome.nl >). 8. Grijpink J H A M (1998), 'Justitiebrede scenario's voor het jaar 2010' ('Scenarios for the Ministry of Justice in the year 2010') (Den Haag: Ministerie van Justitie). 9. See the report of the Scientific Council for Governmental policy 'Staat zonder Land' ('State without Country') V 98 (The Hague 1998); the ministerial paper 'Internationalisering en recht in de informatiemaatschappij' ('Internationalisation and law in the information society') TK '99-'00, 25880, no. 10 < http://www.minjust.nl/c_actual/rapport/irinfomy.pdf > and the comparative study accompanying the ministerial paper into the views of various foreign governments on internationalisation and law: Koops, B J, Prins, J E J and Hijmans, H (2000), 'Internationalisation and ICT Law' (The Hague/Boston: Kluwer Law International). See also: < http://www.minjust.nl/c_actual/rapport/overcrbi.pdf >. 10 . See earlier on a distinction: A.M. Froomkin, 'Anonimity and Its Enmities', 1995 J. Online L. art. 4 < http://www.wm.edu/law/publications/jol/froomkin.html >. 11 . A biometric number is a number that is derived using a formula from a physical characteristic (e.g. a fingerprint, the geometry of a finger or hand, or the characteristic movements when signing a document). A biometric number yields a person- related pseudonym. All sorts of other numbers and codes used to verify a person's identity are not person-related. Someone can give a PIN number to somebody else, for example; the electronic signature (code for encrypting data) is computer-related and can be used by another user of that computer. See: van Kralingen R, Prins, J E J and Grijpink J H A M, 'Het lichaam als sleutel. Juridische beschouwingen over biometrie' ('The body as the key. Legal considerations on biometrics') in Van den Berg & Schmidt (eds) National Programme for Information Technology and Law (IteR), No. 8 (Alphen aan de Rijn: Samson); Grijpink J.H.A.M. (1999) 'Biometrie als anonieme bewaker van uw identiteit' ('Biometrics as an anonymous guard of your identity'), Beveiliging no. 5, May 1999 pp. 22 ff. (Amsterdam: Keesing Bedrijfsinformatie BV) and Grijpink J.H.A.M. (2001) 'Biometrics and Privacy' in The Computer Law and Security Report March/April 2001 (Oxford, UK: Elsevier Science Ltd). 12 . Verification is generally not sufficient for the application of criminal law. The police are therefore expected to irrevocably establish the identity of a suspect when investigating a criminal offence. If errors are made at this stage, the legal intervention will go wrong further on in the criminal law enforcement chain. After all, it will generally not be possible to rectify a faulty identification retrospectively by means of verification because, for instance, the suspect can no longer be located or because the available data are contradictory. If the police have made a successful identification at the beginning of the criminal law enforcement chain, other partners in this chain will be able to make do with verifications further on in the legal proceedings. 13 . For examples of the various forms, see: Prins, J E J (2000), 'What's in a name? De juridische status van een recht op anonimiteit' ('What's in a name? The legal status of a right to anonymity') in Privacy & Informatie vol. 3 no. 5 (Th Netherlands: Koninklijke Vermande). 14 . For a discussion of this link between privacy protection and anonymity, reference is made to: Grijpink, J H A M (1999), 'Werken met keteninformatisering' ('Working with chain computerisation'), Section III Privacy and anonymity pp. 133 ff. (The Hague: Sdu Uitgevers). 15 . Goods can already be collected at 7-11 shops of this type in Japan. 16 . This subscriber does not necessarily have to be registered under his own name. In practice, the identity of a subscriber is seldom verified, and in the Netherlands an ISP is not authorised to ask for proof of identity other than on a voluntary basis. Neither is he legally or practically able to verify the soundness and validity of a proof of identity because of the lack of authority and information infrastructure. 17 . Supreme Court: HR 15 November 1957, NJ 1958, 67. 18 . See however: HR 24 January 1997, NJ 1997, 339. The Supreme Court ruled that the provisions of article 2:93, paragraph 1 and article 203, paragraph 1 of the Dutch Civil Code concerning the possibility of the ratification by a company limited by shares or a private limited company, after its foundation, of legal transactions that were performed on behalf of the company being founded is applicable mutatis mutandis to other legal persons. See also HR 11 April 1997, NJ 1997, 583 and furthermore the extensive case law on a subpoena for anonymous people that break into and occupy empty houses. 19 . See however: Ballon, G 'Ik gaf mijzelf geen naam'('I gave myself no name') Tijdschrift voor Privaatrecht, no. 3 pp. 557-592. 20 . See HR (Supreme Court) 15 November 1957, NJ 1958, 67. 21 . See for example: < http://www.anonymizer.com/docs/legal/agreement.shtml > (stipulations 9 and 11) and < http://www.xs4all.nl/freedom/Freedom_files/content/voorwaarden.html > (stipulation 5.4). 22 . Directive 1999/93/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 13 december 1999 on a Community framework for electronic signatures, OJ L 013/12, 19 january 2000. 23 . See also the report of the Scientific Council for Governmental policy 'Staat zonder Land' ('State without Country') V 98 (The Hague 1998); the ministerial paper 'Internationalisering en recht in de informatiemaatschappij' ('Internationalisation and law in the information society') TK '99-'00, 25880, no. 10 < http://www.minjust.nl/c_actual/rapport/irinfomy.pdf > and the comparative study accompanying the ministerial paper into the views of various foreign governments on internationalisation and law: Koops, B J, Prins, J E J and Hijmans, H (2000), 'Internationalisation and ICT Law' (The Hague/Boston: Kluwer Law International). See also: < http://www.minjust.nl/c_actual/rapport/overcrbi.pdf >. 24 . See the three proposed Directives, published on 12 July 2000, in which the importance of a high level of consumer protection is expressly put forward as a reason for introducing the new rules: Proposal for a Directive of the European Parliament and of the Council concerning the processing of personal data and the protection of privacy in the electronic communications sector, COM(2000) 385; Proposal for a Directive of the European Parliament and of the Council on universal service and users' rights relating tot electronic communications networks and services, COM(2000) 392; Proposal for a Directive of the European Parliament and of the Council on a common regulatory framework for electronic communications networks and services, COM(2000) 393. 25 . Grijpink, J H A M (1999), 'Werken met keteninformatisering' ('Working with chain computerisation'), Section III Privacy and Anonymity pp. 133 ff. (The Hague: Sdu Uitgevers). |ELJ |JILT |THIS ISSUE |SEARCH |COMMENTS | -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From mv at cdc.gov Fri Jan 24 10:11:57 2003 From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret)) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 10:11:57 -0800 Subject: Deniable Thumbdrive? (and taking signal detection seriously) Message-ID: <3E3181ED.D413DAA3@cdc.gov> > From: "Tyler Durden" > The cool thing about this drive (small enough that it has holes for use as a > keychain) is that it's got a "Public" area and a private area, and the > private area is accessible (if one desires) only via the little fingerprint > reader on the top of the drive. (It's also USB based, and on Windows2000 and > beyond you don't need any software drivers--just plug it in to a USB port > and it appears as a drive). > > ANyway, I was wondering. I'd really like a nice software mod of this thing > so that, depending on which finger I use for verification, a different > private area on the drive will open (right now several users can be assigned > access by the master user to use their fingerprint for access to the single > private area). Of course, there should be no indication that there even IS > more than one private area. 1. You should not rely on their encryption alone, you should use your own crypto on whatever you store there. You can carry your whole environment --incl. copies of tools, digsigs,and keyrings -- with you. You do, of course, have to trust the hardware/OS you use it with. "If you don't know the socket, keep your dongle in your pants" 2. If you use your 'nose' you need to borrow other noses to do a signal detection study ---tally hits, misses, false alarms, false positives. Then get back to us. We can even characterize and compare the performance of say human sentries this way; even measure their fatigue, perhaps. If the FAA/TSA has half a clue they've done this for their x-ray snoopers. From bill.stewart at pobox.com Fri Jan 24 10:40:37 2003 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 10:40:37 -0800 Subject: Deniable Thumbdrive? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030124101402.02df6cd0@idiom.com> At 11:40 AM 01/24/2003 -0500, Tyler Durden wrote: >Peter Trei wrote... >"What's you're threat model? If it's your wife or kid sister, this >might work. If it's a major corporation or a government, forget >it - they'll bitcopy the whole flash rom, and look at it with ease." Agreed. Furthermore, the whole thing is inherently dependent on the processing model and programming interfaces of your thumbdrive. What does it look like to your PC if you're not using the right thumb? What does it look like to your PC if you want to use the right thumb? Three obvious models are - PC doesn't need Thumbdrive-specific drivers, just generic USB disk, and the CPU in the drive decides whether it's seen your thumb and reveals the otherwise-hidden files if it likes you. - PC has specific drivers for the Thumbdrive, Whole drive plus the thumbprint pad are visible to the PC, and you can only decrypt the secret part if you put a matching thumb on the thumbprint. - PC has specific drivers for the Thumbdrive Public drive, thumbprint pad, and hooks for secret drive are visible to the PC, and putting the correct thumb on the pad lets the PC find out the password to mount the secret drive. >At this point, most of my threat models are on this level or the next one >higher--local cops or dumb goons grab a protestor or whatever and try to >shake his photos and whatever digital else out of him..."OK punk, you're >not calling a lawyer until you show me what's on this thing"..."Don't tell >me nothing's in there I see a login prompt, ya' commie faggot...open it up." First of all, as Peter says, high-tech cops won't be fooled. Low-level goons may not recognize it, or if the thumbprint part requires specific drivers or data on the PC, you can tell them "sorry, that part's for access to my work PC, and if you'd like to get a search warrant, they'll let you in the building", and make sure the public part has some pictures of your dog or whatever. For medium-tech cops, you can say that it requires installing drivers on their PC (assuming that it does), and offer to download them, and prearrange that there's a set of drivers at www.kevinmitnick.com just in case they actually take you up on it. >As for the thumbprint, I'm wondering if other parts of the body could be used >(then even very savvy rubberhosers couldn't just make you try every finger). >I'll try using my, um, nose tonight. Depending on the interface presented to the PC, it may or may not be obvious to the PC whether there are zero, one, or more secret areas on the drive. If it's not obvious, then the obvious extension to the product would be to support multiple fingerprints for multiple secret areas, the business model being so that multiple people can use the same drive, so your right thumb gets your right-wing-conspiracy data, your left thumb gets your Commie stuff, and your middle finger gets the picture of J.Edgar Hoover in his black negligee or whatever else you want the cops to see. Otherwise, figure out which body parts you don't mind them cutting off... From camera_lumina at hotmail.com Fri Jan 24 08:40:42 2003 From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 11:40:42 -0500 Subject: Deniable Thumbdrive? Message-ID: Peter Trei wrote... "What's you're threat model? If it's your wife or kid sister, this might work. If it's a major corporation or a government, forget it - they'll bitcopy the whole flash rom, and look at it with ease." At this point, most of my threat models are on this level or the next one higher--local cops or dumb goons grab a protestor or whatever and try to shake his photos and whatever digital else out of him..."OK punk, you're not calling a lawyer until you show me what's on this thing"..."Don't tell me nothing's in there I see a login prompt, ya' commie faggot...open it up." This could of course be done without the thumbprint (probably better), but I think that only when you get -really- dangerous do you have to worry about highly technical people who are informed of the latest info gadgets, and who would even know there are multiple private areas. As for the thumbprint, I'm wondering if other parts of the body could be used (then even very savvy rubberhosers couldn't just make you try every finger). I'll try using my, um, nose tonight. -TD _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From schear at attbi.com Fri Jan 24 12:06:44 2003 From: schear at attbi.com (Steve Schear) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 12:06:44 -0800 Subject: False Alarm Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030124120448.042df890@mail.attbi.com> A device that appeared to be a bomb on a vehicle parked outside Simpson's Hardware and Sports on Wesmark Boulevard kept local and state authorities busy for nearly four hours Friday before the object was found to be a tracking system placed on the car by the driver's wife. http://www.theitem.com/CityDesk/030118a_news.cfm From eresrch at eskimo.com Fri Jan 24 15:09:11 2003 From: eresrch at eskimo.com (Mike Rosing) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 15:09:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: thumdrive integrity --Deniable Thumbdrive? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 24 Jan 2003, Thomas Shaddack wrote: > Has built-in Ethernet and serial ports, and with a chip like FT8U232AM it > could work with USB as well. The 232BM version is easier to use and costs the same. Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike From bethenco at upl.cs.wisc.edu Fri Jan 24 13:35:47 2003 From: bethenco at upl.cs.wisc.edu (John Bethencourt) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 15:35:47 -0600 Subject: thumdrive integrity --Deniable Thumbdrive? In-Reply-To: References: <2SCO0JWO37645.537025463@anonymous.poster> Message-ID: <20030124213547.GB22282@upl.cs.wisc.edu> On Fri, Jan 24, 2003 at 09:51:46PM +0100, Thomas Shaddack wrote: > DEFINITELY TRUE! > > ... > > The device should be able to perform the encryption/decryption services on > its own (hence the cryptographic CPU). Eg, you have an untrusted computer. > You plug the device to its port, move a document from the untrusted > machine to device's directory "Cleartext", authorize yourself to the > device with fingerprint and PIN, select the "Encrypt" function (which can > be done eg. by a suffix to the PIN). In few seconds, you should then find > the encrypted document in the device's directory "Ciphertext". Similarly, > the device should support write-only directory, to which you could write > files freely but won't be able to retrieve them without authorization > (this could allow using the device for data couriers who would be able > to pick data but won't be able to read them along the way). > > ... Good points. I've thought a lot about the possibility of such devices (I suppose they are kind of obvious/inevitable to crypto-minded people). One comment: One the of the primary uses for such a device would be in protocols requiring digital signatures. If the device is to be used for this, it would seem necessary to also include a small display on it so the user can view what the untrusted computer wants signed and authorize the signature. Of course, with a screen, it's going to be more like a PDA and less like a key-chain sized device. One of these days, I might build a little device that stores a private key and does on-board encryption using a microcontroller. I would do it just for fun, since it is pretty useless if the infrastructure to support it is not out there. John Bethencourt From DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk Fri Jan 24 09:50:41 2003 From: DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk (David Howe) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 17:50:41 -0000 Subject: [IP] Open Source TCPA driver and white papers (fwd) References: Message-ID: <03cd01c2c3d1$20b047c0$c71121c2@sharpuk.co.uk> at Friday, January 24, 2003 4:53 PM, Mike Rosing was seen to say: > Thanks Eugen, It looks like the IBM TPM chip is only a key > store read/write device. It has no code space for the kind of > security discussed in the TCPA. The user still controls the machine > and can still monitor who reads/writes the chip (using a pci bus > logger for example). There is a lot of emphasis on TPM != Palladium, > and TPM != DRM. TPM can not control the machine, and for DRM to work > the way RIAA wants, TPM won't meet their needs. TPM looks pretty > useful as it sits for real practical security tho, so I can see why > IBM wants those !='s to be loud and clear. Bearing in mind though that DRM/Paladium won't work at all if it can't trust its hardware - so TPM != Paladium, but TPM (or an improved TPM) is a prerequisite. From ben at algroup.co.uk Fri Jan 24 10:05:20 2003 From: ben at algroup.co.uk (Ben Laurie) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 18:05:20 +0000 Subject: Deniable Thumbdrive? References: Message-ID: <3E318060.5030104@algroup.co.uk> Tyler Durden wrote: > I got a hold of a little gadget recently that is very nearly perfect for > certain forms of data storage. It's called a "Thumbdrive" and I bought > it online somewhere (64Meg for about $179 or so). > > The cool thing about this drive (small enough that it has holes for use > as a keychain) is that it's got a "Public" area and a private area, and > the private area is accessible (if one desires) only via the little > fingerprint reader on the top of the drive. (It's also USB based, and on > Windows2000 and beyond you don't need any software drivers--just plug it > in to a USB port and it appears as a drive). > > ANyway, I was wondering. I'd really like a nice software mod of this > thing so that, depending on which finger I use for verification, a > different private area on the drive will open (right now several users > can be assigned access by the master user to use their fingerprint for > access to the single private area). Of course, there should be no > indication that there even IS more than one private area. > > So...anyone heard of such a hack/mod, or is there a straightforward way > to go about doing it oneself? Nice! Get them to cut _all_ your fingers off instead of just one. Just say no to amputationware. Cheers, Ben. -- http://www.apache-ssl.org/ben.html http://www.thebunker.net/ "There is no limit to what a man can do or how far he can go if he doesn't mind who gets the credit." - Robert Woodruff From shaddack at ns.arachne.cz Fri Jan 24 12:51:46 2003 From: shaddack at ns.arachne.cz (Thomas Shaddack) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 21:51:46 +0100 (CET) Subject: thumdrive integrity --Deniable Thumbdrive? In-Reply-To: <2SCO0JWO37645.537025463@anonymous.poster> Message-ID: > WTF is the point of adding more biometric security to a device that > cannot and does not support data integrity? that flash memory held > within the thumbdrive keeps your data in clear text...unless of course > you store everything within some form of encrypted disk. even then, > the quick and dirty way to bypass the bio-security us to pull the card > out of the usb enclosure and start poking at the contents. DEFINITELY TRUE! Thumbdrive products are a good step in the right direction, but by far not long enough. Another approach is needed. The unit should be tamperproof, with more services than just a dumb mass storage device. The unit should contain a biometric sensor (eg, a fingerprint reader), a small keypad or other device to enter a PIN, and its own processor, for performing cryptographic operations. The device should support several operations for different PINs, and several PINs, which will allow several different private storage areas, different operations, and a special PIN for destruction of secure content and offering dummy content instead ("See officer? I told you there are no crypto keys there!"). The device should be able to keep audit log of operations. The device should store the data in encrypted form in the memory. The PIN could be part of the decryption key. The device should be able to handle the biometric reader output on its own, independently on the host computer. This architecture together with adherence to USB mass-storage standards would make us independent on any OS-specific drivers, making the device truly multiplatform. The device should be able to perform the encryption/decryption services on its own (hence the cryptographic CPU). Eg, you have an untrusted computer. You plug the device to its port, move a document from the untrusted machine to device's directory "Cleartext", authorize yourself to the device with fingerprint and PIN, select the "Encrypt" function (which can be done eg. by a suffix to the PIN). In few seconds, you should then find the encrypted document in the device's directory "Ciphertext". Similarly, the device should support write-only directory, to which you could write files freely but won't be able to retrieve them without authorization (this could allow using the device for data couriers who would be able to pick data but won't be able to read them along the way). Optionally, the unit could be usable for encryption/decryption of data streams, which would make it very useful for IP telephony. The key for crypto functions should never leave the unit. Attempt of physical compromising of the unit should result in self destruction of at least the part of the memory that keeps the keys (maybe keep them in battery-backed RAM, sealed in epoxide resin with both passive and active tamper-detection devices (including but not limited to thin wire mesh)? This way, even if the computer itself would get compromised, the only thing the adversary would be able to intercept would be the plaintexts used in the sessions with the compromised machine. Which they would be able to get using TEMPEST or a keylogger anyway. This design should be robust against hijacking of the key by eg. trojan horses. From shaddack at ns.arachne.cz Fri Jan 24 14:16:34 2003 From: shaddack at ns.arachne.cz (Thomas Shaddack) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 23:16:34 +0100 (CET) Subject: thumdrive integrity --Deniable Thumbdrive? In-Reply-To: <20030124213547.GB22282@upl.cs.wisc.edu> Message-ID: > One of these days, I might build a little device that stores a private key > and does on-board encryption using a microcontroller. I would do it just for > fun, since it is pretty useless if the infrastructure to support it is not out > there. Check http://developer.axis.com/products/mcm/ - this looks like a good chip. Together with embedded Linux it could be pretty useful for this purpose, could shorten the development time considerably. For $249 they offer a readymade developer board. Has built-in Ethernet and serial ports, and with a chip like FT8U232AM it could work with USB as well. From kvanhorn at ksvanhorn.com Sat Jan 25 17:19:54 2003 From: kvanhorn at ksvanhorn.com (Kevin S. Van Horn) Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 19:19:54 -0600 Subject: DoD badly protected web form lets "users" administer .mil domain names. References: <20030125174019.6585.qmail@nym.alias.net> Message-ID: <3E3337BA.3010802@ksvanhorn.com> >>Care to register a .mil Web site of your own for free? The DoD has gone out of its way to make it a snap. [...] >> >That's great. How about "kill-iraqis-regardless.mil" or "want-to-buy-some-oil-in-iraq.mil" or "we-lust-for-another-war.mil" > I think your aim is off here. It's the politicians and political appointees who are agitating for this war, not the career military. A lot of the top military leadership is against the idea of attacking Iraq, I suppose because they have a keener appreciation of just how dangerous, messy, and unpredictable war can be. From bill.stewart at pobox.com Sun Jan 26 12:06:43 2003 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 12:06:43 -0800 Subject: JILT: New Rules for Anonymous Electronic Transactions? An Exploration of the Private Law Implications of Digital Anonymity In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030126110501.02df3eb0@idiom.com> At 07:56 AM 01/24/2003 -0500, Bob Hettinga wrote: >http://elj.warwick.ac.uk/jilt/01-2/grijpink.html There's some interesting discussion about the ability of the Dutch legal culture to provide useful tools for regulating transactions in anonymous or semi-anonymous environments - if you can't find somebody, can you speak of enforcing contracts, etc. Not surprisingly, this has been discussed extensively by the Cypherpunks and other people exploring applications for cryptographically-protected communications. Some of the standard references are Tim May's "Cyphernomicon" paper (on the web), Orson Scott Card's novel "Ender's Game", and Vernor Vinge's story "True Names". (As the JILT paper says, systems like this may be quite complex to actually implement in practice, and fiction provides a good tool for exploring the social implications without doing the difficult detail work.) I do want to comment on the concept of pseudonymity and semi-anonymity. The paper appears to be using a definition in which a Trusted Third Party provides a pseudonym service, which knows the True Name behind each pseudonym and can provide it when required for a limited number situations, such as collecting unpaid debts or prosecuting ThoughtCrime, but otherwise the pseudonym is adequate for many activities, and the user can protect his privacy and conduct various activities under different pseudonyms without them being linked to each other or to his True Name. Unfortunately, the definitions of ThoughtCrime have been radically expanded in recent years, primarily due to "intellectual property" concerns from the music and movie publishers and the Church of Scientology, so the usefulness of these pseudonyms has decreased, even for pure communications applications without the anonymous digital payment systems that can enable anonymous business. An alternative definition of pseudonymity, which is more common in the Cypherpunks discussions, is the use of a persistent identity, verified by digital signatures, which permits the development of reputations without the need for True Names. The types of businesses that can be supported in this environment are more limited, because there's no way to throw somebody in jail if they default, but much of European merchant law evolved without this ability. For some applications, "Reputation Capital" provides enough protection - a name that's used for months or years of good transactions or writing good essays or making good investment recommendations has a value that will be lost if it's abused, but for other applications, escrow services substantially increase the types and values of transactions that are possible. Escrow can be used on a per-transaction basis, or the escrow service may be part of establishing a pseudonym, providing an amount of money that can be seized in a dispute resolution process without needing the True Name of the pseudonym-holder. Pseudonymity is becoming increasingly common in practice. AOL "screen names" were primarily intended to allow multiple family members to share an account, but are also useful for protecting privacy, especially of children in chat rooms. There's no explicit requirement for a True Name, though most accounts use credit cards which do provide some tracing ability, but the depth of credit checking performed by AOL is "did their credit card company approve paying for their service this month", rather than "how big a transaction can their assets cover" or "where do they sleep, in case the police want to arrest them". Yahoo Mail and Hotmail systems are relatively untraceable, however. EBay accounts have an organized reputation capital system, allowing buyers and sellers to rate whether the other party has met their obligations, and to allow prospective buyers and sellers to see the ratings and estimate whether they'll be defrauded or not. Unfortunately, EBay recently bought Paypal, so the privacy of Paypal users is no longer protected by the separation between the auction system and the payment system, since Paypal uses credit cards and therefore semi-traceable identities to pay people. Julf Helsingius's original Anonymous Remailer was originally intended to provide the stronger form of pseudonymity, but unfortunately he was forced to reveal the information he had about a user (because of the intellectual property Throughtcrime problem), though in fact that identity was another disposable email address. >In order to respond to a growing need for anonymity in legal transactions, >the regulations for organised semi-anonymity could also be extended (e.g. >under property law), so that it will be possible to break through a >person's anonymity retrospectively if necessitated by court order or by >the law. Organised semi-anonymity (or pseudonymity) in legal transactions >is therefore a useful weapon against a number of disadvantages of acting >absolutely anonymously or spontaneously semi-anonymously, while retaining >the envisaged protection of privacy. It is only with the guarantee of this >organised protection of a person's true identity without that being >abused, that identity fraud can be kept under control and that pseudonyms >can provide anonymity towards third parties without damaging the legal order. From declan at well.com Sun Jan 26 09:33:36 2003 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 12:33:36 -0500 Subject: DoD badly protected web form lets "users" administer .mil domain names. In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030124185835.02c58ba0@idiom.com>; from bill.stewart@pobox.com on Fri, Jan 24, 2003 at 07:05:45PM -0800 References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030124185835.02c58ba0@idiom.com> Message-ID: <20030126123336.A3841@cluebot.com> On Fri, Jan 24, 2003 at 07:05:45PM -0800, Bill Stewart wrote: > A well-known non-US journalistic source reports: [...] > By Thomas C Greene in Washington The company may be incorporated overseas, but Thomas lives not that far up the street from me. I'm not sure what having an overseas HQ gains him if some of the Feds choose to pursue legal action (a very small chance, though, I'd wager). -Declan From support at cyberexcite.com Sun Jan 26 10:14:00 2003 From: support at cyberexcite.com (cyberexcite) Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 18:14:00 GMT Subject: new services Message-ID: <200301261814.SAA03455@adnetworld.com> dear sir / madam u would be surprised with this mail , but we do have got your email address after great efforts! this is all about a new company , offering services for domain registration and web hosting.we actually want to gather information that would our rates be good for a simple user. domain registration : $ 7.99 web hosting ( Linux ) starting from $ 3 / month having facilities as " 100 MB Web Space reserved " 10 POP E-mail Address/ Forwarding addresses " Your Own CGI-BIN " High Speed Servers connected with multiple OC3 . " Unlimited hits per month " Free Response Form " WebBased Control Panel " Real audio and video Support " 24 hours FTP Access. please inform us that is it suitable for a common user to set up his/her web account. with regards! sarfraz shah cyberexcite team support at cyberexcite.com +92-333-5141016 www.cyberexcite.com From support at cyberexcite.com Sun Jan 26 10:14:15 2003 From: support at cyberexcite.com (cyberexcite) Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 18:14:15 GMT Subject: new services Message-ID: <200301261814.SAA03663@adnetworld.com> dear sir / madam u would be surprised with this mail , but we do have got your email address after great efforts! this is all about a new company , offering services for domain registration and web hosting.we actually want to gather information that would our rates be good for a simple user. domain registration : $ 7.99 web hosting ( Linux ) starting from $ 3 / month having facilities as " 100 MB Web Space reserved " 10 POP E-mail Address/ Forwarding addresses " Your Own CGI-BIN " High Speed Servers connected with multiple OC3 . " Unlimited hits per month " Free Response Form " WebBased Control Panel " Real audio and video Support " 24 hours FTP Access. please inform us that is it suitable for a common user to set up his/her web account. with regards! sarfraz shah cyberexcite team support at cyberexcite.com +92-333-5141016 www.cyberexcite.com From support at cyberexcite.com Sun Jan 26 10:17:51 2003 From: support at cyberexcite.com (cyberexcite) Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 18:17:51 GMT Subject: new services Message-ID: <200301261817.SAA04932@adnetworld.com> dear sir / madam u would be surprised with this mail , but we do have got your email address after great efforts! this is all about a new company , offering services for domain registration and web hosting.we actually want to gather information that would our rates be good for a simple user. domain registration : $ 7.99 web hosting ( Linux ) starting from $ 3 / month having facilities as " 100 MB Web Space reserved " 10 POP E-mail Address/ Forwarding addresses " Your Own CGI-BIN " High Speed Servers connected with multiple OC3 . " Unlimited hits per month " Free Response Form " WebBased Control Panel " Real audio and video Support " 24 hours FTP Access. please inform us that is it suitable for a common user to set up his/her web account. with regards! sarfraz shah cyberexcite team support at cyberexcite.com +92-333-5141016 www.cyberexcite.com From kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com Sun Jan 26 19:16:52 2003 From: kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com (John Kelsey) Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 22:16:52 -0500 Subject: Deniable Thumbdrive? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030126220438.0213e1e0@pop.ix.netcom.com> At 10:06 PM 1/24/03 +0100, Eugen Leitl wrote: ... >Frankly, the fingerprint is a lousy secret: you leak it all over the >place. You can't help it, unless you're wearing gloves all the time. Ditto >DNA. That's generally true of biometrics. Unless taking the measurement is so intrusive it's obvious when it's taken (e.g., maybe the geometry of your sinus cavities or some such thing that requires a CAT scan to measure properly), there's no secret. People constantly seem to get themselves in trouble trying to use biometrics in a system as though they were secret. The best you can usually do is to make it moderately expensive and difficult to actually copy the biometric in a way that will fool the reader. But this is really hard. In fact, making special-purpose devices that are hard to copy or imitate is pretty difficult. It seems enormously harder to find a hard-to-copy, easy-to-use "token" that just happens to come free with a normal human body. I think the best way to think about any biometric is as a very cheap, moderately hard to copy identification token. Think of it like a good ID card that just happens to be very hard to misplace or lend to your friends. --John Kelsey, kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com From kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com Sun Jan 26 19:39:48 2003 From: kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com (John Kelsey) Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 22:39:48 -0500 Subject: Deniable Thumbdrive? In-Reply-To: <3E318060.5030104@algroup.co.uk> References: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030126222713.0213fe20@pop.ix.netcom.com> At 06:05 PM 1/24/03 +0000, Ben Laurie wrote: ... >Nice! Get them to cut _all_ your fingers off instead of just one. > >Just say no to amputationware. This whole idea was talked to death many years ago on sci.crypt, and probably before that other places. The good news is that it's not too hard to come up with a design that lets you encrypt a large hard drive in such a way that there's no way to determine how many "tracks" of secret data are there. I believe one of Ross Anderson's students did a design for this; it doesn't seem like a really hard problem to solve if you don't mind losing most of your effective disk capacity. The bad news is that you *really* need to think about your threat model before using it, since there's necessarily no way for you to prove that there no more tracks of secret data. It takes no imagination at all to think of ways you might end up wishing you *could* convince someone you'd given them the key to all the tracks. IMO, the only way to do this kind of thing is to have the data, or at least part of the key, stored remotely. The remote machine or machines can implement duress codes, limits to the number ot password guesses allowed per day, number of invalid password guesses before the thing just zeros out the key and tells the person making the attempt it has done so, etc. Trust me, you *want* the server to loudly announce that it will zero the key irretrievably after the tenth bad password.... >Cheers, > >Ben. --John Kelsey, kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com From NAVMSE-A1SERV at a1autotransport.com Mon Jan 27 07:11:14 2003 From: NAVMSE-A1SERV at a1autotransport.com (NAVMSE-A1SERV at a1autotransport.com) Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 07:11:14 -0800 Subject: Norton AntiVirus detected and quarantined a virus in a message yo u sent. Message-ID: <9FCDD0470785D41198F9001083FC5E5933AFE6@A1SERV> Recipient of the infected attachment: Quotes\Inbox Subject of the message: Little Salesman One or more attachments were quarantined. Attachment href.bat was Quarantined for the following reasons: Virus W32.Klez.H at mm was found. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 717 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mv at cdc.gov Mon Jan 27 08:23:15 2003 From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret)) Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 08:23:15 -0800 Subject: Secure voice app: FEATURE REQUEST: RECORD IPs Message-ID: <3E355CF3.DB4773D8@cdc.gov> >I am elated that the development of Speak Freely is continuing. I think it The versions of all the secure phones I've evaluated needed this feature: a minimal answering machine. With just the ability to record IPs of hosts that tried to call. (A local table can map these to your friends or their faces. Of course, this table should be encrypted when not in use.) Heck, you could even have an option to send email --or I suppose use that instant-messaging stuff that teenagers are fond of-- from the secure IP phone to you, when that phone rings but is not answered. From camera_lumina at hotmail.com Mon Jan 27 07:04:48 2003 From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden) Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 10:04:48 -0500 Subject: Semi-Deniable Thumbdrive... Message-ID: >I think the best way to think about any biometric is as a very cheap, > >moderately hard to copy identification token. Think of it like a good > >ID card that just happens to be very hard to misplace or lend to your > >friends. Well, if I was smuggling capacitors into Iraq I certainly wouldn't use a thumbdrive! But the above is pretty much the way I see it: 'reglar' folks can't 'figure out' my thumbprint, and couldn't use binoculars or whatever to see my password. More importantly, I don't have a lot of time to try to come up with some soft/hard gadget on my own these days. I pretty much need to be able to BUY something and come up to speed pretty quickly on how to use it. I need it like sex: cheap/dirty/fast. I can't really spend a lot of time worrying about some hyper-evil, hyper-powerful fed (just yet). Aside from the deniability aspect, another "upgrade" would be for me to be able to use my thumbprint as a PGP password. Then this thumbdrive wouldn't be readable via some off-the-shelf pin reader that any helpdesk knucklehead could buy. SO both of these upgrades might be available by fairly simple hacks, or by pestering Trek for them. I wouldn't have to spend a few weeks down in Dexter's laboratory coming up with a completely new, God-proof device. And then as further easy upgrades become available, I'll grab 'em. And who knows? With enough little hacks, some gadgets may eventually morph into inexpensive but quite fierce little black boxes. (As guitarist Robert Fripp has said: "Incremental changes are transformative.") -TD Cheap, fast, easy, and MASSIVELY scalability: that's the real end-run. >From: John Kelsey >To: Eugen Leitl , Thomas Shaddack > >CC: Ben Laurie , Tyler Durden >, >Subject: Re: Deniable Thumbdrive? >Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 22:16:52 -0500 > >At 10:06 PM 1/24/03 +0100, Eugen Leitl wrote: >... >>Frankly, the fingerprint is a lousy secret: you leak it all over the >>place. You can't help it, unless you're wearing gloves all the time. Ditto >>DNA. > >That's generally true of biometrics. Unless taking the measurement is so >intrusive it's obvious when it's taken (e.g., maybe the geometry of your >sinus cavities or some such thing that requires a CAT scan to measure >properly), there's no secret. People constantly seem to get themselves in >trouble trying to use biometrics in a system as though they were secret. > >The best you can usually do is to make it moderately expensive and >difficult to actually copy the biometric in a way that will fool the >reader. But this is really hard. In fact, making special-purpose devices >that are hard to copy or imitate is pretty difficult. It seems enormously >harder to find a hard-to-copy, easy-to-use "token" that just happens to >come free with a normal human body. > >I think the best way to think about any biometric is as a very cheap, >moderately hard to copy identification token. Think of it like a good ID >card that just happens to be very hard to misplace or lend to your friends. > >--John Kelsey, kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From mmotyka at lsil.com Mon Jan 27 12:15:03 2003 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 12:15:03 -0800 Subject: Secure voice app: FEATURE REQUEST: RECORD IPs Message-ID: <3E3522C7.6004.A9F4BB@localhost> Harmon Seaver > On Mon, Jan 27, 2003 at 07:06:24PM +0100, Thomas Shaddack wrote: > > DSL lease timeout. A feature of DHCP-based dynamic IP addresses over > > permanent connections. Similar for cable, though the differences yo > > observed seem to be rather implementation-dependent than principial. > > No, not really. It's far too irregular for that, sometimes goes for over a > month, then sometimes 2-3 times in a week. More like them doing work on the > system. > That's about what I've seen. > Not really dhcp anyway, it's Eoppp. Cable is usally dhcp, and is better > because it authenticates on the mac address of the cable modem. And dhcp can be > set up to always give the same ip to a certain mac address, but I don't think > the eoppp can, or at least they don't -- it always has to negotiate a > challange/passwd response which can be quite problematic -- sometimes the only > way to get it to work again is to unplug the modem for 30 seconds or so, which, > of course, frustrates any script you have to automagically reset dns for your > domainname, or even just keep you online. > >Harmon Seaver > There's probably an X10 module that would let your Linux box cycle the power on your modem/router/switch. try $50 : http://www.x10.com/automation/x10_ck11a.htm If you're not using a domain name then your script could publish your IP address on your home page ( in the clear or not as you choose ). Mike From eugen at leitl.org Mon Jan 27 03:38:27 2003 From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl) Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 12:38:27 +0100 (CET) Subject: ATTN: John Walker - RE: [speak-freely] Speak Freely for Windows and Speak Freely mailing lists (fwd) Message-ID: How would you do it? Would you lift public key exchange from OpenSSL or GPG? Or just package a snapshot of GPG with Speak Freely, and adapt the call syntax? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 01:25:26 -0500 From: "Benjamin T. Moore, Jr." To: speak-freely at fourmilab.ch Subject: ATTN: John Walker - RE: [speak-freely] Speak Freely for Windows and Speak Freely mailing lists -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I am elated that the development of Speak Freely is continuing. I think it is one of the best Voice over IP applications I have ever tried. I have been using Speak Freely for at least 8 or 9 years now. I have also been using PGP since version 2.3a was released. I have yet to get Speak Freely to interface with PGP the way it is supposed to as per the help file. I have tried many times with friends also equally adept at PGP and Speak Freely. We've never been able to have any success. We always have to generate a key and exchange it through encrypted e-mail. I would dearly love to have someone provide a step by step tutorial on how we should proceed. Or, if as I suspect, it doesn't work, I'd like to know that as well so I can stop losing sleep over it! :-) Any advice or help would put me forever in your debt. Thanks in advance! - -- Benjamin T. Moore, Jr. - ICQ UIN - 8159114 *The Price of Freedom is Self-Reliance! The Cost is Education!* From hseaver at cybershamanix.com Mon Jan 27 11:07:37 2003 From: hseaver at cybershamanix.com (Harmon Seaver) Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 13:07:37 -0600 Subject: Secure voice app: FEATURE REQUEST: RECORD IPs In-Reply-To: References: <20030127172535.GB12194@cybershamanix.com> Message-ID: <20030127190737.GA12395@cybershamanix.com> On Mon, Jan 27, 2003 at 07:06:24PM +0100, Thomas Shaddack wrote: > > > Pretty hard to do if people are using dialup. Or even dsl, unless they run a > > linux box they don't ever reboot -- although I've found my dsl ip changing > > sometimes on it's own, and with no rhyme or reason. > > DSL lease timeout. A feature of DHCP-based dynamic IP addresses over > permanent connections. Similar for cable, though the differences yo > observed seem to be rather implementation-dependent than principial. No, not really. It's far too irregular for that, sometimes goes for over a month, then sometimes 2-3 times in a week. More like them doing work on the system. Not really dhcp anyway, it's Eoppp. Cable is usally dhcp, and is better because it authenticates on the mac address of the cable modem. And dhcp can be set up to always give the same ip to a certain mac address, but I don't think the eoppp can, or at least they don't -- it always has to negotiate a challange/passwd response which can be quite problematic -- sometimes the only way to get it to work again is to unplug the modem for 30 seconds or so, which, of course, frustrates any script you have to automagically reset dns for your domainname, or even just keep you online. > > > Cable is a little more stable, when I had a cable modem it didn't > > change ip unless I shut off the modem for awhile, and not even always > > then. > > Idea: What about a caller ID system, based on eg. SSL certificates or PGP > signed challenge-response? This would probably work okay, even ssh works despite ip changes, although it stops to ask. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com From mv at cdc.gov Mon Jan 27 14:47:37 2003 From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret)) Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 14:47:37 -0800 Subject: Secure voice app: FEATURE REQUEST: RECORD IPs Message-ID: <3E35B708.E8AF820@cdc.gov> At 11:25 AM 1/27/03 -0600, Harmon Seaver wrote: >On Mon, Jan 27, 2003 at 08:23:15AM -0800, Major Variola (ret) wrote: >> The versions of all the secure phones I've evaluated needed this >> feature: >> a minimal answering machine. With just the ability to record IPs of > Pretty hard to do if people are using dialup. Or even dsl, unless they run a >linux box they don't ever reboot -- although I've found my dsl ip changing >sometimes on it's own, and with no rhyme or reason. Merely notifying me that someone called is useful. It wouldn't require rocket science to recognize an entire class C address as a friend. And remember this proposal is fully back compatible with earlier versions of a sec phone. If you wanted to mess with the protocol, you could obviously add an identifier exchange component. I am not familiar with SpeakFreely's protocol so I don't know if it can be extended without breaking compatability. From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz Sun Jan 26 20:39:30 2003 From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 17:39:30 +1300 Subject: Big Brotherish Laws Message-ID: <200301270439.h0R4dUQ28760@medusa01.cs.auckland.ac.nz> Bill Stewart writes: >I have heard of one case where somebody was stopped in Nevada, and instead of >presenting his California driver's license, if any, he presented his >somewhere-in-the-Caribbean non-photo license and an international driver's >license, and that was just fine for Nevada. That's because non-US licenses constitute automatic permission for minor traffic law violations. The scenario is something like the following: [Driver gets pulled over]. Driver: "Gidday mate, hows it going?" [Cop asks for license, looks at it] Cop: "Ahhhh, screw it, too much paperwork. Don't do it again. HAND". Peter. From eugen at leitl.org Mon Jan 27 09:05:21 2003 From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl) Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 18:05:21 +0100 (CET) Subject: ATTN: John Walker - RE: [speak-freely] Speak Freely for Windows and Speak Freely mailing lists (fwd) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030127081851.04390ed0@mail.attbi.com> Message-ID: Apart from bugfixes (like a tunable parameter to get rid of UDP buildup in system buffer due to sample rate skew) there has been some intersting discussion on tunnelling through NAT. I just noticed that speak-freely@ doesn't have a web archive. I'll be happy to forward relevant posts to anyone interested (privately, or dump them to cpunx-news to you can read them up from web archives). On Mon, 27 Jan 2003, Steve Schear wrote: > I'd love to use SpeakFreely but one of its quirks is that it uses two > different ports to initiate and respond to connections and > communicate. Like many others I uses a firewall appliance. And like many > firewall users we find features lacking for configuring our firewalls so > that incoming traffic on one port can be associated with outgoing traffic > from another. About two years ago I thought a programmer I knew was going > to fix this, but it never happened. Hint: who ever takes up improving > SpeakFreely, please add this to the change list. From shaddack at ns.arachne.cz Mon Jan 27 10:06:24 2003 From: shaddack at ns.arachne.cz (Thomas Shaddack) Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:06:24 +0100 (CET) Subject: Secure voice app: FEATURE REQUEST: RECORD IPs In-Reply-To: <20030127172535.GB12194@cybershamanix.com> Message-ID: > Pretty hard to do if people are using dialup. Or even dsl, unless they run a > linux box they don't ever reboot -- although I've found my dsl ip changing > sometimes on it's own, and with no rhyme or reason. DSL lease timeout. A feature of DHCP-based dynamic IP addresses over permanent connections. Similar for cable, though the differences yo observed seem to be rather implementation-dependent than principial. > Cable is a little more stable, when I had a cable modem it didn't > change ip unless I shut off the modem for awhile, and not even always > then. Idea: What about a caller ID system, based on eg. SSL certificates or PGP signed challenge-response? From rah at shipwright.com Mon Jan 27 16:06:52 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:06:52 -0500 Subject: When you try to pronounce "NGSCB"... Message-ID: ...it sounds like some place-name in Mordor: "Naagscab" I suppose it should name a sulfurous cave, or some other, um, foul hole... Thanks to Charles Evans for the pronunciation hint. > Microsoft has dropped the code name of its controversial > security technology, Palladium, in favor of this buzzword- > bloated tongue twister: "next-generation secure computing > base". Cheers, RAH Who liked "Palladiated", too... -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From shaddack at ns.arachne.cz Mon Jan 27 14:08:37 2003 From: shaddack at ns.arachne.cz (Thomas Shaddack) Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 23:08:37 +0100 (CET) Subject: Secure voice app: FEATURE REQUEST: RECORD IPs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I used to run a crontabbed script that queried a cgi-bin giving back the > remote address I use a very similar system (in PHP), activated by a wget request from /etc/ppp/ip-up.local (Linux). Another tactics I use occassionally when having to improvise is a remote syslog and a crontab entry that each 5 minutes spits a heartbeat message into the log (so each 5 minutes I get an UDP packet telling me the address on which the machine currently is; brute force, reliable, small overhead, abuse-resistant). > built-in this is now much more painless (no need to hack ddclient to parse > your router's status page). More interesting, current wireless routers > seem to support VPN tunnelling (IPsec, specifically). Given the > capabilities, it would be a piece of cake to slip a VoIP package such as > Speak Freely into it. With a headset/USB connection and a web interface to > control the app it would certainly provide some added value and be immune > to firewalling woes. Works, proven experimentally. One fateful day my ISP cut off all UDP traffic above and including port 1024 (they reinstated it two days later, so I suppose it was a hasty defense against a DDoS attack). I had a VPN connection to my office LAN, so I opened the two UDP ports on the firewall and set up portforwarding in iptables, and after some wrestling caused by my relative inexperience I got it working. Was surprisingly reliable. By the way - thought a bit about the ringing and authentication. Why we have to unite the call request system with the rest of the IP phone application? Couldn't we use it as an entirely separate process, maybe something simple based on eg. SSL or HTTPS, employing client certificates? This way we reduce the modifications of the VoIP component itself to bare minimum or perhaps none at all. Maybe it could be as simple as a perl or PHP script on the listening side, and a script calling curl on the other side. From rsalz at datapower.com Tue Jan 28 07:27:30 2003 From: rsalz at datapower.com (Rich Salz) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:27:30 -0500 Subject: EU Privacy Authorities Seek Changes in Microsoft 'Passport' In-Reply-To: <001301c2c6a1$31821c40$7001a8c0@VAIO650> References: <001301c2c6a1$31821c40$7001a8c0@VAIO650> Message-ID: <3E36A162.5040306@datapower.com> > The Liberty Alliance was stillborn to begin with. Not that it made any > practical difference, but the Liberty Alliance received an additional > bullet through the head the day that RSA Security, a key participant in > the Liberty Alliance, announced that they would also support Microsoft > Passport. {I'm not on DBS so they won't see this.} I wasn't discussing the politics, just the architecture. But anyway: if Liberty does manage to field something run by the CCard companies, then it will survive, and probably win. MSFT will have to acceede to what Visa and MC deploy. /r$ --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From eresrch at eskimo.com Tue Jan 28 19:07:04 2003 From: eresrch at eskimo.com (Mike Rosing) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 19:07:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: Palm Pilot Handshake In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, Tyler Durden wrote: > Yo! Anyone out there in codeville know if the following is possible? > > I'd like to be able digitally "shake hands" using a Palm Pilot. Is this > possible? Yes. > And now let's say there's some guy at a party claiming to be that very same > Tyler Durden, but you're not so sure (this real-life Tyler Durden is WAY too > much of an obvious chick-magnet to be the same guy that posts on the > Internet). BUT, you happen to have your Palm Pilot(TM), and so does he. So > you both both engage the little hand-shaking app on your PP (using Tyler > Durden's public key) and there's verification. Yep. Same dude. (You then > procede to prostrate yourself before this obvious godlet, stating "I'm not > worthy, Sire".) Or punch him in the nose :-) > Is this possible within the memory constraints of a Palm device? What about > with a booster pack of memory? If not, is some sort of "Public Key Masking" > possible so that a 'less secure' handshake is possible using a subset of the > public key? It's there. And you have lots of choices of algorithms too. Maybe too many choices... > And for extra credit, when might the chipsets be available for incorporating > this functionality into, say, a wristwatch so that the protocol runs > automatically (giving you a beep, for instance, only if there's a mismatch)? > (This I'm sure the feds must already have.) It's there. Check out "smart cards". One chip does the job quite nicely. Way too many choices there too. Do a web search for "secure cryptographic hardware". Have lots of time to read :-) Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike From eresrch at eskimo.com Tue Jan 28 19:11:29 2003 From: eresrch at eskimo.com (Mike Rosing) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 19:11:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: the news from bush's speech In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030128205953.01a3b028@mail.well.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, Declan McCullagh quoted Bush: > > And tonight, I am instructing the leaders of the FBI, Central > > Intelligence, Homeland Security, and the Department of Defense to develop > > a Terrorist Threat Integration Center, to merge and analyze all threat > > information in a single location. Our government must have the very best > > information possible, and we will use it to make sure the right people > > are in the right places to protect our citizens. Yeah, like Ames, Hanson and Pollard. Definitly the right people in the right places. A friend of mine had a sign in his office that said "I can't tell if the world is run by smart men bluffing or idiots who mean it." I think the latter is pretty obvious in this case. Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike From tcmay at got.net Tue Jan 28 19:25:19 2003 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 19:25:19 -0800 Subject: the news from bush's speech In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030128205953.01a3b028@mail.well.com> Message-ID: <4ABAA360-3339-11D7-BA4F-0050E439C473@got.net> On Tuesday, January 28, 2003, at 06:00 PM, Declan McCullagh wrote: >> And tonight, I am instructing the leaders of the FBI, Central >> Intelligence, Homeland Security, and the Department of Defense to >> develop a Terrorist Threat Integration Center, to merge and analyze >> all threat information in a single location. Our government must have >> the very best information possible, and we will use it to make sure >> the right people are in the right places to protect our citizens. > > The _real_ news was, of course, that no one delivered the Sato Solution to that den of statists. Granted, delivering a fully-loaded 767 through the roof of the Capitol dome has become harder than it was when Clancy first proposed it (ironically, Clancy remained a vaunted consultant while those on newsgroups who speculated similarly reportedly got visits from the SS). But each year I keep hoping that my CNN coverage will suddenly go blank and Aaron Brown and Judy Woodruff will say "We seem to have lost communcation with the Capitol...Judy, what's that bright orange glow over towards the Capitol?" Of course, a true nest-cleaning detonation would probably take out most of Crystal City as well, so Aaron, Lou, Dan, Peter, and Oprah would probably be "having the vapors." There's always next year... --Tim May "To those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty, my message is this: Your tactics only aid terrorists." --John Ashcroft, U.S. Attorney General From mbc at debian.org Wed Jan 29 11:03:08 2003 From: mbc at debian.org (Michael Cardenas) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:03:08 -0800 Subject: the news from bush's speech In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030128205953.01a3b028@mail.well.com> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030128205953.01a3b028@mail.well.com> Message-ID: <20030129190308.GE6247@rilke> How about this news? Last night in the State of the Union address, Bush repeated the lie that Iraq is creating nuclear weapons, stating the evidence of the aluminum tubes purchased, which he claimed were used to enrich uranium. These remarks were made despite the fact, discussed here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A57632-2003Jan28.html that the International Atomic Energy Agency's report on Monday stated clearly that the tubes "cannot be used directly for [uranium] enrichment." So, Bush is either illiterate or just flat out lying, once again. On Tue, Jan 28, 2003 at 09:00:01PM -0500, Declan McCullagh wrote: > > And tonight, I am instructing the leaders of the FBI, Central > >Intelligence, Homeland Security, and the Department of Defense to develop > >a Terrorist Threat Integration Center, to merge and analyze all threat > >information in a single location. Our government must have the very best > >information possible, and we will use it to make sure the right people > >are in the right places to protect our citizens. -- michael cardenas | lead software engineer, lindows.com hyperpoem.net | GNU/Linux software developer people.debian.org/~mbc | encrypted email preferred Listening to: KPFA-FM - Berkeley, CA "Seriousness is the only refuge of the shallow." - Oscar Wilde [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature] From camera_lumina at hotmail.com Wed Jan 29 08:43:54 2003 From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:43:54 -0500 Subject: the news from bush's speech...H-power Message-ID: And don't forget his promise that we'll all be able to buy Hydrogen-powered cars by 2020 or so. Guess that's how long he thinks this war on terrorism will last (and its probability for ending!). -TD _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From eresrch at eskimo.com Wed Jan 29 13:00:46 2003 From: eresrch at eskimo.com (Mike Rosing) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 13:00:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [DIGRESSION] RE: the news from bush's speech...H-power In-Reply-To: <3E382847.BBE5AC84@cdc.gov> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Major Variola (ret) wrote: > Oh come on. Its all economics. (With tech changing the params) > Fuel cells for cars are too expensive today. There is not enough > methanol > production/distrib infrastructure, which costs to create. [insert > Metcalfe's law (aka fax or network effect) blurb here] > And where do you get to strip-mine the coal for the methanol? Even H. Ford was figuring on using hemp for methanol. The problem is that you need a nuke plant to do the final distillation. That's politics, not economics. > The economics will make battery + capacitor + constant-rate Otto engine > (aka 'hybrid') keep petrol cheaper than alternative > energy carriers and sufficiently clean for a while. You'll see 42 volt > cars (soon) before you see fuel cells in cars. Yup, the ability to run the Otto at fixed speed maximizes it's efficiency. When the price of fuel for the 25% max efficiency runs into the 90%+ efficiency of more expensive motors, we'll see things start changing. Just gotta kill off a few more arabs to extend the time when that happens is all. Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike From tcmay at got.net Wed Jan 29 13:04:38 2003 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 13:04:38 -0800 Subject: the news from bush's speech...H-power In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <46D17FA0-33CD-11D7-9DBF-0050E439C473@got.net> On Wednesday, January 29, 2003, at 10:53 AM, Eugen Leitl wrote: > On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Tyler Durden wrote: > >> And don't forget his promise that we'll all be able to buy >> Hydrogen-powered >> cars by 2020 or so. Guess that's how long he thinks this war on >> terrorism > > Don't get it: onboard fuel reforming with methanol is almost done, fuel > cells with polymer proton membranes are already good enough (though > still > being optimized rapidly, particularly in terms of energy density and > platinum group metal content) and GM's on the right track with their > recent designs. Don't see why it shouldn't hit the markets by 2005. > > It's interesting that political science has witheld one of the oldest > technologies (Grove started it 1838, Mond and Langer in 1889 attained 6 > A/square foot energy density; Bockris publicized it in mid-70s again) > from > the general public. The interesting part is that we didn't use fuel > cell > technology on noticeable scale by 1980... > Nonsense. What "political science" do you think was stopping Ford or Honda or Volvo or GM from introducing a hydrogen fuel cell car by 1980? Do you think it was the lack of hydrogen storage technology? Not a Poly Sci problem. Do you think it was the lack of methane fuel at filling stations? Not a Poly Sci problem. Do you think it was the very high cost of fuel cell vehicles even today (in prototype form) compared to conventional fuel vehicles? Not a Poly Sci problem. And so on, for H2 storage tanks, reformers, etc. You are generally free to develop your idea of a fuel cell vehicle and to then try to sell it to customers, modulo some minor issues of safety tests, etc. Don't let weird ideological ideas get in the way of being able to evaluate technologies objectively. "Careful with that axe to grind, Eugene." --Tim May From tcmay at got.net Wed Jan 29 15:13:11 2003 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:13:11 -0800 Subject: the news from bush's speech...H-power In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3CA2C02E-33DF-11D7-9DBF-0050E439C473@got.net> On Wednesday, January 29, 2003, at 02:24 PM, Eugen Leitl wrote: > On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Tim May wrote: > >> Nonsense. What "political science" do you think was stopping Ford or >> Honda or Volvo or GM from introducing a hydrogen fuel cell car by >> 1980? > > What I meant is lack of lots of fat federal grants for research on fuel > reformers, hydrogen separation, proton membranes, alternative > catalysts, > and the like. The fund allocation (or, rather, lack thereof) was sure > politically motivated. Well, in your country (Germany, IIRC), perhaps such funding is permissable. In the U.S., it really is not. Constitutionally, that is. The government exists to do certain things, not to pick technology winners. Yes, I realize there was a space program..it was unconstitutional, IMO, as it had nothing to do per se with national defense or other constitutionally-specified purposes of collecting and disbursing taxpayer money. Other programs, like cancer research and diet studies, are even more unconstitutional. See also the next point, about the effects the "Moon Shot" had on alternatives. > > Feds are sure inefficient, but the random dispersal of funds does tend > to > hit the far shots now and then. The private sector tends to ruthlessly > optimize on the short run (because the long shot doesn't pay if you go > broke before you can reap the possible benefits). The effects are much worse than you imply. Government picking winners means that competitors are undermined and "deprecated." Not only does the funding distort the market, but the government often finds ways to actually _ban_ alternatives. (Sometimes the ban is explicit, often it is implicit, in terms of universities and corporations only being allowed to compete in For example, the space program. The Moon Flag Planting cost about 100,000 slave-lives (about $125 thousand milliion in today's dollars) to finance. It distorted the market for things like single stage to orbit, which might have happened otherwise. And it created a bureaucracy more intent on spreading pork to Huntsville, Houston, Canaveral, and other pork sites. (Surprising that Robert Byrd failed to get WVa picked as the control center. He was too junior then, probably.) I don't have time/energy to explain in a lot of detail why you are so wrong here, why your "slippage into statism" is not only surprising given your subscription to this list, but is also dead wrong. I won't bother responding to your arguments in favor of national socialism. --Tim May, Corralitos, California Quote of the Month: "It is said that there are no atheists in foxholes; perhaps there are no true libertarians in times of terrorist attacks." --Cathy Young, "Reason Magazine," both enemies of liberty. From eresrch at eskimo.com Wed Jan 29 15:36:20 2003 From: eresrch at eskimo.com (Mike Rosing) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:36:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [DIGRESSION] RE: the news from bush's speech...H-power In-Reply-To: <20030129223649.GA15144@cybershamanix.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Harmon Seaver wrote: > Although canola oil is a much better source for fuel. And diesels a much > better IC engine for hybrids. Even in non-hybrids, VW builds some pretty nice > diesel cars, including the Lupo, on the market for a couple years now, which > gets 80mpg. And the prototype that VW's CEO drives around in that gets 280mpg. From http://www.used-volkswagen-cars.co.uk/volkswagenlupo.htm: "As befits a small car, the cheapest models come with a 1.0-litre engine that is decent enough, though finds it hard going on the motorway." And I bet an alcohol fueled model airplane engine gets 1000 mpg. It just can't lift a gallon! We have put a lot of research money into fuel cells, and the pay off is not in auto's, it's in battery replacement. Energy density and economics are both important, as is infrastructure and politics. I'll be climbing on my bicycle in a few minutes to ride home in the snow - it uses regular meat and potatoes for fuel :-) But not many people can deal with the risks. If we make it a law that everyone rides their bike to work so we can use the gasoline to conquer the world, Bush might get a second term. But let's hope not. Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike From tcmay at got.net Wed Jan 29 15:43:17 2003 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:43:17 -0800 Subject: the news from bush's speech...H-power In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <70D1A9EC-33E3-11D7-9DBF-0050E439C473@got.net> On Wednesday, January 29, 2003, at 03:18 PM, Bill Frantz wrote: > At 2:24 PM -0800 1/29/03, Eugen Leitl wrote: >> Feds are sure inefficient, but the random dispersal of funds does >> tend to >> hit the far shots now and then. The private sector tends to ruthlessly >> optimize on the short run (because the long shot doesn't pay if you go >> broke before you can reap the possible benefits). > > Back a few years ago, probably back during the great gas crisis (i.e. > OPEC) > years, there were a lot of small companies working on solar power. As > far > as I know, they were all bought up by oil companies. Of course, only a > paranoid would think that they were bought to suppress a competing > technology. Some of the leading PV panels are those from BP (British Petroleoum). These can be ordered, along with those from Kyocera, Astropower, Siemens, and others, from many sites. Use Google to find them. My brother worked for one of these companies at their Simi Valley/Thousand Oaks site about 20 years ago. The issues are complex, but have zero to do with leftie fantasies about oil companies suppressing technologies. There is no way to control fundamental breakthroughs, whether PV conversion or "caburetors that violate the laws of physics!." Any of the above non-oil companies (and one can add Texas Instruments and others to the list) which develops a more efficient, cheaper to manufacture PV system will find success. --Tim May From tcmay at got.net Wed Jan 29 16:08:08 2003 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:08:08 -0800 Subject: the news from bush's speech...H-power In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wednesday, January 29, 2003, at 02:24 PM, Eugen Leitl wrote: > Feds are sure inefficient, but the random dispersal of funds does tend > to > hit the far shots now and then. The private sector tends to ruthlessly > optimize on the short run (because the long shot doesn't pay if you go > broke before you can reap the possible benefits). > > It's about the single most powerful reason for federally funded > research > to exist. > I should have mentioned in my first reply that you need to spend some time looking into evolutionary learning and markets. For example, the importance of quick feedback and correction, with profits determining which markets are explored. I have strong views on this, having studied the electronics/semiconductor market for many years, having studied carefully the role of intermediate products (such as RTL --> DTL --> TTL --> op amps --> MOS RAMs --> 4-bit microprocessors --> etc.). Products introduced in 1963, say, were generally making the bulk of a company's profits by 1965-66, paying for the 1965 R & D and the 1966 product rollouts, which then paid for the 1967-69 cycle, etc. I know this was true of the earlier technologies and it matched everything I saw in my years at Intel and thereafter. The "2-4 year payback cycle" in the electronics industry, from roughly 1955 to the present, was terribly important. Each generation of technology paid for the next generation, and costly mistakes resulted in companies ceasing to exist (Shockley Transistor, Rheem, Precision Monolithics, and so on...the list is long). Successful products led to the "genes" (or memes) propagating. Phenotypes and genotypes. This same model gave us, basically, the commercial automobile and aviation industries. "Moon shots," on the other hand, distort markets, suffer from a lack of evolutionary learning, and have almost no breakthroughs ("But what about Tang?"). "I am proud to announce, as your President, the goal of creating our national mechanical brain, a machine which will be built with one million relays and vacuum tubes. I am committing one billion dollars to this noble endeavour. We expect to have the mechanical brain operating by 1970." --President Dwight Eisenhower, 1958. Really, Eugene, you need to think deeply about this issue. Ask your lab associate, "A. G.," about why learning and success/failure is so important for so many industries. Read some Hayek, some von Mises, some Milton Friedman. And even some David Friedman. Ask why the U.S.S.R., which depended essentially solely on "federal funding," failed so completely. Hint: it wasn't just because of repression. It was largely because "picking winners" doesn't work, and command economies only know how to pick winners (they think). Think deeply about why this list is what it is. From hseaver at cybershamanix.com Wed Jan 29 14:36:49 2003 From: hseaver at cybershamanix.com (Harmon Seaver) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:36:49 -0600 Subject: [DIGRESSION] RE: the news from bush's speech...H-power In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030129223649.GA15144@cybershamanix.com> On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 05:05:22PM -0500, Tyler Durden wrote: > Mike Rossing wrote... > "Just gotta kill off a few more arabs to extend the time when that happens > is all." > > That gives me a damned good idea. Perhaps we can use Camp XRay to do some > research on how to melt down Muslims and convert then directly into fossil > fuels, bypassing all the middlemen...Muslim-powered vehicles could sport a > cute lil' sticker proclaiming "Allah On Board". No research needed. People have been making biodiesel out of any sort of fats for ages, including animal fats, fish oil, etc. As we speak, there are many people in this world driving their vehicles on biodiesel made from rendered beef and pork fat. And the Reich was rendering human fat. Although canola oil is a much better source for fuel. And diesels a much better IC engine for hybrids. Even in non-hybrids, VW builds some pretty nice diesel cars, including the Lupo, on the market for a couple years now, which gets 80mpg. And the prototype that VW's CEO drives around in that gets 280mpg. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com From emc at artifact.psychedelic.net Wed Jan 29 16:42:17 2003 From: emc at artifact.psychedelic.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:42:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: the news from bush's speech...H-power In-Reply-To: from "Tim May" at Jan 29, 2003 04:08:08 PM Message-ID: <200301300042.h0U0gHv05985@artifact.psychedelic.net> Time writes: > "I am proud to announce, as your President, the goal of creating our > national mechanical brain, a machine which will be built with one > million relays and vacuum tubes. I am committing one billion dollars to > this noble endeavour. We expect to have the mechanical brain operating > by 1970." --President Dwight Eisenhower, 1958. Uh, no. I followed science very closely during the Eisenhower administration, and I remember no mention of a "National Mechanical Brain" project. Tim is likely spoofing us again. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From frantz at pwpconsult.com Wed Jan 29 16:52:43 2003 From: frantz at pwpconsult.com (Bill Frantz) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:52:43 -0800 Subject: the news from bush's speech...H-power In-Reply-To: <70D1A9EC-33E3-11D7-9DBF-0050E439C473@got.net> References: Message-ID: At 3:43 PM -0800 1/29/03, Tim May wrote: >On Wednesday, January 29, 2003, at 03:18 PM, Bill Frantz wrote: >> Back a few years ago, probably back during the great gas crisis (i.e. >> OPEC) >> years, there were a lot of small companies working on solar power. As >> far >> as I know, they were all bought up by oil companies. Of course, only a >> paranoid would think that they were bought to suppress a competing >> technology. > >... > >The issues are complex, but have zero to do with leftie fantasies about >oil companies suppressing technologies. I agree, as I said above. At most the purchase of these companies may have slowed research by not providing as much funding. More likely it speeded research by providing a sponsor with a longer term view than the public capitol markets. Cheers - Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | Due process for all | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | used to be the Ameican | 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz at pwpconsult.com | way. | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA From camera_lumina at hotmail.com Wed Jan 29 14:05:22 2003 From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 17:05:22 -0500 Subject: [DIGRESSION] RE: the news from bush's speech...H-power Message-ID: Mike Rossing wrote... "Just gotta kill off a few more arabs to extend the time when that happens is all." That gives me a damned good idea. Perhaps we can use Camp XRay to do some research on how to melt down Muslims and convert then directly into fossil fuels, bypassing all the middlemen...Muslim-powered vehicles could sport a cute lil' sticker proclaiming "Allah On Board". -TD _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From hseaver at cybershamanix.com Wed Jan 29 15:43:24 2003 From: hseaver at cybershamanix.com (Harmon Seaver) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 17:43:24 -0600 Subject: the news from bush's speech...H-power In-Reply-To: References: <46D17FA0-33CD-11D7-9DBF-0050E439C473@got.net> Message-ID: <20030129234324.GA15322@cybershamanix.com> On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 03:18:44PM -0800, Bill Frantz wrote: > At 2:24 PM -0800 1/29/03, Eugen Leitl wrote: > >Feds are sure inefficient, but the random dispersal of funds does tend to > >hit the far shots now and then. The private sector tends to ruthlessly > >optimize on the short run (because the long shot doesn't pay if you go > >broke before you can reap the possible benefits). > > Back a few years ago, probably back during the great gas crisis (i.e. OPEC) > years, there were a lot of small companies working on solar power. As far > as I know, they were all bought up by oil companies. Of course, only a > paranoid would think that they were bought to suppress a competing > technology. > All bought up by oil companies? Hmmm -- maybe you should do some googling on solar panels, alternative energy, etc. Solar's been a growing industry for some time, being very widely installed around the world. You can even buy it a Home Depot. It's getting quite cheap, many people are finding it a better buy than paying an electric bill. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com From steve at tightrope.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 29 10:18:05 2003 From: steve at tightrope.demon.co.uk (Steve Mynott) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 18:18:05 -0000 Subject: Palm Pilot Handshake References: Message-ID: <003301c2c7c2$c734bbe0$0301000a@thishost> From: "Tyler Durden" > I'd like to be able digitally "shake hands" using a Palm Pilot. Is this > possible? I think you mean public key based authentication. > Is this possible within the memory constraints of a Palm device? What about > with a booster pack of memory? If not, is some sort of "Public Key Masking" > possible so that a 'less secure' handshake is possible using a subset of the > public key? I doubt memory is likely to be an issue with this since decade old DOS handhelds ran PGP 2.x fine and if you google for "palm pilot crypto" you will find 2000 vintage ports of OpenPGP and OpenSSL. The Palms do have fairly slow processors so checking keys may take a while and generating them probably quite a long time. More modern PDAs such as the Zaurus or iPaq have processors which are an order of magnitude faster and run linux so PGP (or GPG or whatever) should work. Also the new generation of mobiles which run Java are probably the future once the standards settle down and the phones become more reliable. I can see little point in trying to use shorter keys which would be a very broken solution to a probably non-existent problem. People should be using longer keys rather than shorter ones, since most of the news about short key lengths isn't good (google "DJB RSA"). > And for extra credit, when might the chipsets be available for incorporating > this functionality into, say, a wristwatch so that the protocol runs > automatically (giving you a beep, for instance, only if there's a mismatch)? It's more a software issue than a hardware issue. It's not much of a software problem since RSA can be written in a few lines of code. If you have a high level language running on (or compiler) for the hardware then you can easily port open source crypto. This is probably a safer solution from a security aspect than relying on potentially backdoored or legally restricted chipsets. Suitable hardware has been available for 10 years or longer with a lot of publicity for the Java ring and iButtons about 5 years back. > (This I'm sure the feds must already have.) It's possible the US Govt. uses iButtoms but I would very much doubt it's used much in production. State agencies tend to be *very* conservative with authentication and rely on physical identity cards, individually issued (and revocable) PIN numbers and the like. They are run by grey men rather than techno-fetishist computer geeks. -- 1024/D9C69DF9 Steve Mynott From tcmay at got.net Wed Jan 29 18:38:11 2003 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 18:38:11 -0800 Subject: [DIGRESSION] RE: the news from bush's speech...H-power In-Reply-To: <20030130002336.GB15381@cybershamanix.com> Message-ID: On Wednesday, January 29, 2003, at 04:23 PM, Harmon Seaver wrote: > On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 03:36:20PM -0800, Mike Rosing wrote: >> On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Harmon Seaver wrote: >> >>> Although canola oil is a much better source for fuel. And diesels >>> a much >>> better IC engine for hybrids. Even in non-hybrids, VW builds some >>> pretty nice >>> diesel cars, including the Lupo, on the market for a couple years >>> now, which >>> gets 80mpg. And the prototype that VW's CEO drives around in that >>> gets 280mpg. >> >> From >> http://www.used-volkswagen-cars.co.uk/volkswagenlupo.htm: >> >> "As befits a small car, the cheapest models come with a 1.0-litre >> engine >> that is decent enough, though finds it hard going on the motorway." >> > > Hard going on the motorway? It cruises at 80mph. And as much as I > love riding > bicycles, even in Winter, the Lupo certainly has a lot more practical > uses than > a bike. Even neater is their new one tho -- > http://www.vwvortex.com/news/index_1L.html > > It too will do 75mph -- fast enough for the likes of me. At 239mpg. > What's > that saying about muscle cars? Something about the size of their > motors is an > inverse ratio to the size of their dicks? It's an old and silly line. I value my life quite highly. I put about 8000 miles per year on my main car (and about 4000 miles per year on an older SUV I used to haul large items, etc.). My car gets about 20 mpg. This costs me about $700 per year in gasoline. Some of the leftie/environmentalists on another list I am on attempted to argue, strenuously, that I owed it "to the planet" and "to yourself" to start driving a Prius, a hybrid that the enthusiasts say averages around 40 mpg. Whatever the exact number, if it is 40 mpg it would "save" me about $300-400 per year in gas, depending on the grade of gas it takes. (Of course, my 1991 Mercedes-Benz is bought and paid for, and costs less than a Prius by about $6000-$9000, based on blue book comparisons of early 90s MBs to late 90s-early 00s Priusi. Saving $350 a year will take 15-25 years to amortize, modulo others costs.) Then there's safety, and personal injury insurance rates. If my 3500-pound S-Class hits a Prius, the laws of physics dictate what happens. And if I hit a golf cart, er, a Honda Lupo, I'd better yell "Fore!" (Here's a quote about the size: "Developed in the wind tunnel and built entirely from composite carbon-fiber reinforced material, it has a width of only 1.25 m (49.2 inches) and is just over a meter high (39 inches).") Since my life and my safety is vastly more valuable to me than saving $350-$600 a year in gas, I'll be keeping my 3500-pound S-Class. (Actually, the little golf car runabouts are slightly popular (maybe one car in 2000 is one of these golf carts) near the downtown beach area around here. But not on the California freeways, and most definitely not the on the highway which consumes most of my driving: the mountainous Highway 17 between Santa Cruz and San Jose, with 18-wheelers only a foot away. I wouldn't want to be sitting inside a golf cart "just over a meter high" when the wheels of an 18-wheeler are taller!) And then there's the issue of carrying passengers, cargo, plus the availability of repairs in small towns, etc. A lot of "theoretically good" solutions fail for market reasons, what someone correctly said is Metcalfe's Law, or the fax effect. Until fueling stations carry exotic fuels, or until all cars and trucks are reduced to golf cart sizes, the disadvantages outweigh the slight savings in fuel costs. I'm quite surprised to see, on this list and on other lists, the ignorance of basic economics. Markets clear. Gas costs what it costs. To argue that there is a "moral cost" to consider, as some on those other lists have been arguing, is silly. Prisoner's Dilemma and all the usual arguments apply. It's why I'll be safer when I run into Harmon on the freeways. His heirs will appreciate his savings in gasoline for the time he owned his Lupo. --Tim May From camera_lumina at hotmail.com Wed Jan 29 18:08:45 2003 From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 21:08:45 -0500 Subject: the news from bush's speech...H-power Message-ID: Tim May wrote... "Ask why the U.S.S.R., which depended essentially solely on "federal funding," failed so completely. Hint: it wasn't just because of repression. It was largely because "picking winners" doesn't work, and command economies only know how to pick winners (they think)." Well, there's some truth here but a lot of oversimplification as well. I'd argue that the US patent system (or at least the thoughtof it) had a lot to do with the ability of inventors to take risks, gather startup capital, and get a product rolling. There is first of all the perception that their "secret sauce" is to some extent protected (as are the time & $ investments), as well as the actual protection (litigation actually works once in a while, and the threat thereof has kept some from copying to soon and too closely). This environment has had a major effect on technological innovation. That's not to say it can't happen in other environments, but it seems to unfold very differently in, say, China or the USSR (which actually has contributed lots of technological and scientific ideas to the world). But none of them have benefited $$$-wise (nor has the pace been nearly as fast) as in the US. Meanwhile, regulations and governments can give some industries a head start, particularly if a "jungle" already holds a nice warm niche for the output of those industries. Thus Sematec helped US semiconductors to roar back from the brink of extinction, and the buying up (and subsequent dismantling) of lite rail systems in the LA basin in the 30s and 40s apparently had a major impact on the rollout of vehicles Might we have seen much better public transportation in that area if this capitalist coup-d'etat hadn't occurred? The moon shots did apparently accelerate the development of semiconductors. (A side note should be made here about the fact that some technologies have a very high activation energy barrier...without a very intensive amount of capital, they can't happen. Indeed, aren't we nearly at that point with sub-0.13um technology? It is possible that further advances just won't be possible without direct or indirect government funding.) The best technology does not always win. In fact, the concept of "best technology" is kinda shakey most of the time. There are sociological, political, and other factors than can alter the course of things for a while. That said, the technological "survival of the fittest" notion seems to be a fairly constant undercurrent that re-asserts itself periodically as the various sociological ephemera come and go. Like Kuhn or Popper, these aren't the only drivers, but they are certainly one of the axes. So the picking of technological winners is possible, but if the technology is actually a winner! -TD >From: Tim May >To: cypherpunks at lne.com >Subject: Re: the news from bush's speech...H-power >Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:08:08 -0800 > >On Wednesday, January 29, 2003, at 02:24 PM, Eugen Leitl wrote: >>Feds are sure inefficient, but the random dispersal of funds does tend to >>hit the far shots now and then. The private sector tends to ruthlessly >>optimize on the short run (because the long shot doesn't pay if you go >>broke before you can reap the possible benefits). >> >>It's about the single most powerful reason for federally funded research >>to exist. >> > >I should have mentioned in my first reply that you need to spend some time >looking into evolutionary learning and markets. For example, the importance >of quick feedback and correction, with profits determining which markets >are explored. > >I have strong views on this, having studied the electronics/semiconductor >market for many years, having studied carefully the role of intermediate >products (such as RTL --> DTL --> TTL --> op amps --> MOS RAMs --> 4-bit >microprocessors --> etc.). > >Products introduced in 1963, say, were generally making the bulk of a >company's profits by 1965-66, paying for the 1965 R & D and the 1966 >product rollouts, which then paid for the 1967-69 cycle, etc. > >I know this was true of the earlier technologies and it matched everything >I saw in my years at Intel and thereafter. > >The "2-4 year payback cycle" in the electronics industry, from roughly 1955 >to the present, was terribly important. Each generation of technology paid >for the next generation, and costly mistakes resulted in companies ceasing >to exist (Shockley Transistor, Rheem, Precision Monolithics, and so >on...the list is long). > >Successful products led to the "genes" (or memes) propagating. Phenotypes >and genotypes. > >This same model gave us, basically, the commercial automobile and aviation >industries. > >"Moon shots," on the other hand, distort markets, suffer from a lack of >evolutionary learning, and have almost no breakthroughs ("But what about >Tang?"). > >"I am proud to announce, as your President, the goal of creating our >national mechanical brain, a machine which will be built with one million >relays and vacuum tubes. I am committing one billion dollars to this noble >endeavour. We expect to have the mechanical brain operating by 1970." >--President Dwight Eisenhower, 1958. > >Really, Eugene, you need to think deeply about this issue. Ask your lab >associate, "A. G.," about why learning and success/failure is so important >for so many industries. Read some Hayek, some von Mises, some Milton >Friedman. And even some David Friedman. > >Ask why the U.S.S.R., which depended essentially solely on "federal >funding," failed so completely. Hint: it wasn't just because of repression. >It was largely because "picking winners" doesn't work, and command >economies only know how to pick winners (they think). > >Think deeply about why this list is what it is. _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From tcmay at got.net Wed Jan 29 22:28:31 2003 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 22:28:31 -0800 Subject: [DIGRESSION] RE: the news from bush's speech...H-power In-Reply-To: <20030130035938.GA15611@cybershamanix.com> Message-ID: <0CE2EA9D-341C-11D7-9DBF-0050E439C473@got.net> On Wednesday, January 29, 2003, at 07:59 PM, Harmon Seaver wrote: > On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 06:38:11PM -0800, Tim May wrote: > > (snip) > >> Since my life and my safety is vastly more valuable to me than saving >> $350-$600 a year in gas, I'll be keeping my 3500-pound S-Class. > > Ah, yes, the old "big cars are safer" arguement. I've seen studies > that went > both ways, yes, bigger crushes smaller if it hits it, but smaller cars > dodge > better. "Dodging" may be important for motorcycles (yes, I have one, a BMW R1100R), but not for any of the accidents I have seen or been in. These usually happen when someone makes a sudden lane change, turns in front of another, runs a red light, fails to negotiate a curve, fails to stop/merge/etc., and so on. The laws of physics are what they are. A 3500-pound vehicle colliding with a 2000-lb vehicle will have the expected effects, all other things being equal. They are not, of course, but even in the "other things" the larger vehicle usually has advantages. My 300 SE has a long hood, with lots of crush length, lots of steel to absorb energy. And a steering column safely ahead of me. And dual airbags. The roof is strongly reinforced. The Volvo folks got most of their know-how in building strong cars from the Mercedes-Benz data "open sourced" in the late 50s, early 60s, and later. > Personally, I don't believe there are many "accidents", just a lot of > inattentive people. I've made it to age 60 driving a lot of small cars, > motorcycles, and bicycles, somehow managed to survive. Haven't had an > "accident" in a long, long time, although I've seen a lot of people > doing pretty > stupid things on the highway. > OTOH, when I was younger and wilder I managed to smash up quite a > few cars, > some of them quite badly, one head on at 75, another one spun out a > 110. A bad > bike spill racing another guy put in a wheel chair for 6 weeks. Fate, > I think, > also has a lot to do with it. I have witnessed three accidents, but only have been in one. This was a motorcyclist running a red light and smashing into the front of my compact car, a 1972 Mazda RX-2. It did substantial damage to my engine compartment. Either my Mercedes or my Explorer would have absorbed the impact better. So, just one accident in my 51 years, not caused by me, compared to your 3 or more, caused by you. So I suppose you have earned the right to explain to me why I should squeeze myself into a Honda Lupo so I can "save the planet." >> (Actually, the little golf car runabouts are slightly popular (maybe >> one car in 2000 is one of these golf carts) near the downtown beach >> area around here. But not on the California freeways, and most >> definitely not the on the highway which consumes most of my driving: >> the mountainous Highway 17 between Santa Cruz and San Jose, with >> 18-wheelers only a foot away. I wouldn't want to be sitting inside a >> golf cart "just over a meter high" when the wheels of an 18-wheeler >> are >> taller!) > > If a semi tries to kill you, driving your MB ain't going to do you > much > good. Believe me. I didn't speak of absolute safety, only relative safety. A 3500-pound steel Mercedes sedan is going to withstand a collision with a truck better than a carbon fiber golf cart riding no more than a meter high. > --Tim May "Gun Control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound" From declan at well.com Wed Jan 29 20:59:09 2003 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 23:59:09 -0500 Subject: the news from bush's speech...H-power In-Reply-To: ; from tcmay@got.net on Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 04:08:08PM -0800 References: Message-ID: <20030129235909.A9087@cluebot.com> On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 04:08:08PM -0800, Tim May wrote: > Really, Eugene, you need to think deeply about this issue. Ask your lab > associate, "A. G.," about why learning and success/failure is so > important for so many industries. Read some Hayek, some von Mises, some > Milton Friedman. And even some David Friedman. I'm with Tim on this (though I've always found Eugene to be one of the most interesting and valuable contributors to discussions here). The only thing I'd add is that many folks in the technology community or computer industry who are otherwise libertarian have a bit of a blind spot when it comes to government funding of "basic research": they like it. More than that, in fact, they'll argue that it's necessary. I suspect much of this comes from the reward structure of grad programs in CS (and I presume other disciplines), where you win if you get DARPA etc. grants. The government is seen as a benign force at worst, a boon at best. By now, everyone's used to it and find its difficult to imagine life without the tax largesse. Also, professional associations like ACM and IEEE argue for more tax handouts... -Declan From tcmay at got.net Thu Jan 30 00:04:30 2003 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 00:04:30 -0800 Subject: Who feigned Roger Rabbit? In-Reply-To: <3E386070.10583.EEC15D@localhost> Message-ID: <75C6B2C4-3429-11D7-9DBF-0050E439C473@got.net> On Wednesday, January 29, 2003, at 11:14 PM, James A. Donald wrote: > -- > On 29 Jan 2003 at 21:08, Tyler Durden wrote: >> Meanwhile, regulations and governments can give some >> industries a head start, particularly if a "jungle" already >> holds a nice warm niche for the output of those industries. >> Thus Sematec helped US semiconductors to roar back from the >> brink of extinction, > > Sematec was a boondoggle and complete failure I discussed Sematech in my last post. It was, as James says, completely unnecessary. As witnessed by the fact that no significant technologies or methods came out of it...and as evidenced by the fact that no technology startups are being spun out of Sematech. It existed mainly as a "jobs program" for Texas, which was suffering in the 1980s from the Oil Patch downturn (the so-called "neutron buildings" of Houston being a symptom: the people are destroyed but the skyscrapers remained standing"...the joke took on a second wind when the Enron/Dynegy/etc. problems hit recently). As befitting any jobs program, now there is a "Sematech II" being set up in depressed upstate New York. All the usual pork barrellers are saying it's just what's needed to help terminally ill Kodak! Do the math. > and the buying up (and >> subsequent dismantling) of lite rail systems in the LA basin >> in the 30s and 40s apparently had a major impact on the >> rollout of vehicles Might we have seen much better public >> transportation in that area if this capitalist coup-d'etat >> hadn't occurred? > > Public transport received, and continues to receive enormous > subsidies. What can be said to "Tyler Durden," a made-up movie character name who gets his economic theory from "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?" Mass transit is usually the first thing given up by those with money. It's a form of the demographic transition which is the same reason Malthus was wrong. Sometime I take a bus when my car needs to be repaired. From my house to Santa Cruz, a total of 13 miles, it takes a minimum of 80 minutes by bus. For a working person, if their time is worth very little or if they just cannot raise the $500 to buy a car and the $800 a year to insure it, then taking the bus is their only choice. But as soon as they can raise the money, they buy cars. Then that 80-minute each way trip drops to 20 minutes. And they can go when they wish, not when the bus schedule permits. And they can go other places the buses don't go (which is nearly everywhere in nearly everyplace I have lived). And so on. In some dense urban areas, or in certain grid layouts, buses make sense. In which case they don't need to be subsidized. But in nearly all places they ARE subsidized...and they are filled with drooling retards, the halt and the lame, kids, oldsters too feeble to drive, and more drooling retards. In an area as large as LA, freeways were the only way to let people (with money, which was nearly everyone) get from Point A to Point B. A series of bus transfers would have made for 2-3 hour bus trips in each direction. The Red Line was in only a stretch in the downtown, and pushing out to the recreational areas near the beaches. It was fine for its time, e.g., the 1920s, but of little use once the city expanded in all directions. The newer forms of mass transit in LA are better-suited than the Roger Rabbitt-famed Red Line was, but are still massively subsidized and mostly filled with drooling retards. > >> The moon shots did apparently accelerate the development of >> semiconductors. > > No they did not. I have written so many pieces trying to disabuse people of this notion about going to the moon that I cringe at the thought of writing another one. The Apollo spacecraft had as its MOST ADVANCED CHIP TECHNOLOGY a technology called "DTL," standing for "diode-transistor-logic." This is the technology which came after RTL (resistor-transistor-logic) and before TTL (transistor-transistor-logic). It is the technology of circa 1961-2, when the specs were frozen and the contracts let out. It did absolutely nothing to push chip technology in the slightest way. This bullshit by statists about how the moon landing helped technology has got to stop. >> (A side note should be made here about the fact that some >> technologies have a very high activation energy >> barrier...without a very intensive amount of capital, they >> can't happen. Indeed, aren't we nearly at that point with >> sub-0.13um technology? It is possible that further advances >> just won't be possible without direct or indirect government >> funding.) >> Utter bullshit. Intel is very far along on 90 nm, 300 mm technologies, none of it funded by Big Brother. You will see products based on this before summer. --Tim May From frantz at pwpconsult.com Thu Jan 30 00:41:17 2003 From: frantz at pwpconsult.com (Bill Frantz) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 00:41:17 -0800 Subject: Who feigned Roger Rabbit? In-Reply-To: <75C6B2C4-3429-11D7-9DBF-0050E439C473@got.net> References: <3E386070.10583.EEC15D@localhost> Message-ID: At 12:04 AM -0800 1/30/03, Tim May wrote: >Sometime I take a bus when my car needs to be repaired. From my house >to Santa Cruz, a total of 13 miles, it takes a minimum of 80 minutes by >bus. For a working person, ... as soon as >they can raise the money, they buy cars. Then that 80-minute each way >trip drops to 20 minutes. And they can go when they wish, not when the >bus schedule permits. I have had one case where taking the train was a big win over driving. I was consulting in San Francisco, about 60 miles from my home. I found that if I rode the train, I could work as I rode, and turn my travel time into billable hours. I also avoided the ruinous parking charges in downtown. Given those facts, I would have taken the train even if the ticket price hadn't been subsidized. Cheers - Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | Due process for all | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | used to be the Ameican | 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz at pwpconsult.com | way. | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA From eresrch at eskimo.com Thu Jan 30 08:05:46 2003 From: eresrch at eskimo.com (Mike Rosing) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 08:05:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: the news from bush's speech...H-power In-Reply-To: <20030130141127.GA15801@cybershamanix.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Harmon Seaver wrote: > Actually, VW has a plant making synfuel out of biomass. And we won't have to > wait long before oil is $50-100 a barrel, it's at $35 right now and world oil > production will peak this decade. In the '80's it was "obvious" that oil production would peak around 1995. We've already burned up all the solar energy collected from 140 to 250 million years ago - the dinosaur model does not fit the amount of oil we're actually finding. There's a lot more oil in the ground (most of it may be under the oceans) so the price isn't going to rise that much for the next 100 years. That doesn't make "biomass" a bad fuel, but if it's gonna compete it will have to get down to $20/barrel to be a clear winner. > That's a pretty easy decision to make, eh? Ethanol is renewable, oil isn't. > Ethanol doesn't pollute, oil does. Ethanol doesn't require troops in the Middle > East, wars, and resultant terror attacks, oil does. Quite simple. Ethanol pollutes, any hydrocarbon is going to be mixed with N2 and make NOx, there's no getting around it with any kind of Otto engine. Oil doesn't *need* to make wars either. It's just that people with guns also happen to be oil sellers, and stealing oil is cheaper than buying it. We could just buy Iraqi oil and solve a lot of problems all around. > Yes, but importing sugar isn't the answer either. Sugar beets and sorghum > grow fine in the US. The best crop, however, is cattails. However, diesels are > still a better solution, running on a biodiesel/ethanol mix, perhaps. > The main problem is corporate welfare. Farm subsidies and oil > subsidies. Until that problem is solved, I don't think we'll see any real > solutions, and, unfortunately, the way the world is going, I don't think that > will happen in any of our lifetimes. Like I've said before, the key to corruption is to make it work in your favor. The Romans, Spanish, French and American empires are all the same, corruption eventually causes them to collapse. But people still live there, with entrenched corruption. I think our best solution is to escape. Mars might be far enough away that we can start a nice civilazation. But it'll turn corrupt eventually because that's how humans work. So we'll need to leave the keys for future escapes :-) Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike From rah at shipwright.com Thu Jan 30 15:53:04 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 18:53:04 -0500 Subject: CrimethInc. Agent Subversion Kit 72a.v2 (This Phone Is Tapped) Message-ID: CrimethInc. Cyberian Market CrimethInc. Agent Subversion Kit 72a.v2 /miscellany/ 1 pack is $5.50 2-4/$4.50 each 5-10/$4 each One pack of 25 postcard-stickers (4 stickers to each card. so one pack = 100 stickers) CrimethInc. Agent Subversion Kit 72a.v2 (This Phone Is Tapped) The first in what will be a continuing series, this tidy little unit contains everything one needs to get one's subversive-action groove on-gloss sticker front with four stickers, and a printed back with application instructions, among other things. Made to be deployed on payphones across the world, the stickers fit precisely on the back handle of the telephone receiver. Order a pack to put a hundred stickers up yourself, reveling in petty vandalism that will educate and motivate others, or take the cards and give them away at shows, protests, or english class for others to have the experience. Each card is a little thought-bomb waiting to bet set off by whoever holds it in their hands-and the collateral damage is everyone who sees the sticker on the phone. Click on the picture to the left for a larger view, or download these PDFs [ front &back ] and print them yourself. [We know these prices might seem expensive and possibly even excessive-in fact, we cringed when typing them-but we assure you that we are charging almost exactly cost for these.] One single card-sticker is automatically included for free in every paid order. -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From shields at msrl.com Thu Jan 30 16:58:45 2003 From: shields at msrl.com (Michael Shields) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:58:45 +0000 Subject: Palm Pilot Handshake In-Reply-To: <003301c2c7c2$c734bbe0$0301000a@thishost> ("Steve Mynott"'s message of "Wed, 29 Jan 2003 18:18:05 -0000") References: <003301c2c7c2$c734bbe0$0301000a@thishost> Message-ID: <874r7q8796.fsf@mulligatwani.msrl.com> In article <003301c2c7c2$c734bbe0$0301000a at thishost>, "Steve Mynott" wrote: > The Palms do have fairly slow processors so checking keys may take a while > and generating them probably quite a long time. For perspective, however, current-model Palms have 33 MHz Motorola 68k processors, which used to be considered a nice desktop CPU. In 1991, when PGP was first released, the Mac Classic II had a 16 MHz 68030 and 2 MB of RAM. If that was enough for PGP, then a Palm m500 ought to be capable of it also. Granted, you will want to use longer keys now. But the hardware in your pocket can do more crypto than you might think. And they're only getting faster. -- Shields. From Senator at collins.senate.gov Fri Jan 31 06:04:17 2003 From: Senator at collins.senate.gov (Collins, Senator (Collins)) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 09:04:17 -0500 Subject: Meeting notice Message-ID: Thank you for your e-mail message. I appreciate having the benefit of your views. This response is an acknowledgement that we received your message and will make note of your comments. If you are from Maine and included a postal address in your message, you will receive a reply via U.S. mail as soon as possible. If you are from Maine and have not included your postal address, please resend your original message and include your complete mailing address with zip code. If you are interested in more information about me or the State of Maine, please visit my Web site at: www.senate.gov/~collins Thank you again for contacting me. Sincerely, Susan M. Collins United States Senator From camera_lumina at hotmail.com Fri Jan 31 06:39:02 2003 From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 09:39:02 -0500 Subject: SSL to replace IPSec in VPNs Message-ID: >From the Lightreading newswire feed... Any comments? Impact statement anyone? -TD SOMERSET, N.J. -- More than 75 percent of survey respondents believe that browser-based SSL (secure sockets layer) VPN (virtual private network) technology is �somewhat� to �highly� likely to replace IPSec-based VPNs for remote access to enterprise resources over the next two years, according to the latest survey on enterprise network security trends from The Tolly Group, a premier IT testing and consulting firm. Netilla� Networks, Inc., a leading provider of SSL VPN solutions for secure Web-based access to any corporate application, co-sponsored the survey along with Check Point Software, Nortel Networks, Ingrian Networks and Enterasys Networks. Survey respondents also projected that the most likely future uses for SSL VPNs will be for securing Web services (67 percent), followed by securing extranets and e-business services (54 percent), providing remote access for business partners (50 percent) and enabling remote access by mobile and teleworking employees (48 percent). SSL-based VPN appliances use the Secure Sockets Layer (SSL) encryption engineered into today�s Web browsers to provide simple, browser-based remote access to centrally hosted corporate applications. Unlike traditional remote access solutions based on the IPSec standard, SSL-based VPNs do not require application or VPN client software to be configured and maintained on remote PCs, which reduces IT support costs while increasing usability. �Overall, respondents demonstrated a significant surge in the usage of SSL-based VPNs,� said Kevin Tolly, president and chief executive officer of The Tolly Group. �Just two years ago, SSL VPNs were nowhere on the map, but now interest in the technology is starting to mature. However, these same users also cited a lack of general understanding on how to deploy SSL VPNs as a potential roadblock. Vendors must step up SSL education to help users better understand the benefits of this technology.� Tolly Group _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From tcmay at got.net Fri Jan 31 10:44:50 2003 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:44:50 -0800 Subject: Passenger rail is for adventurers and bums In-Reply-To: <20030131155845.GA17191@cybershamanix.com> Message-ID: <147D4F08-354C-11D7-9DBF-0050E439C473@got.net> On Friday, January 31, 2003, at 07:58 AM, Harmon Seaver wrote: > I'd love to see more and better train service in the US. Great way > to > travel, work, read, watch the scenery. I don't mind at all taking a > few days, > and, unless it's a real emergency, I'm very sure at this point I'll > never fly a > commercial airline again. By the way, if this has anything to do with the security hassles of air travel (someone, maybe you, mentioned it as well a day or so ago), don't count on this difference lasting for long. Already there are calls to use "positive identification" for all train travelers. "Amtrak also requires that each person buying a ticket has photo identification. "Passengers traveling between Boston and Washington DC can no longer purchase their tickets on board the train." Expect more such moves. Expect much tighter security if and when a train is seized in the U.S. or Europe the way peace-loving Indians have been seizing trains and killing the occupants in peaceful India. (Securing entry points to trains will be even more difficult than with airplanes, for the obvious reasons. Ditto for securing transfer of weapons onto trains--in large amounts of baggage, through open windows, when people step off trains at many intermediate "whistle stops," etc.) The police state will extend to trains. Count on it. I don't know if this is your reason for expecting not to fly commercially again, but for anyone who thinks trains will somehow be exempted from the national security police state, think again. --Tim May From DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk Fri Jan 31 03:25:38 2003 From: DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk (David Howe) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:25:38 -0000 Subject: Sovereignty issues and Palladium/TCPA References: <200301310218.h0V2IiY22752@medusa01.cs.auckland.ac.nz> Message-ID: <00bb01c2c91b$a9fb16a0$c71121c2@sharpuk.co.uk> at Friday, January 31, 2003 2:18 AM, Peter Gutmann was seen to say: > More particularly, governments are likely to want to explore the > issues related to potential foreign control/influence over domestic > governmental use/access to domestic government held data. > In other words, what are the practical and policy implications for a > government if a party external to the government may have the > potential power to turn off our access to its own information and > that of its citizens. And indeed - download patches silently to change the "disable" functionality to "email anything interesting directly to the CIA" functionality..... --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From tcmay at got.net Fri Jan 31 14:15:34 2003 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 14:15:34 -0800 Subject: punk and free markets In-Reply-To: <3E3A3C69.3686.35F036@localhost> Message-ID: <84DB930C-3569-11D7-9DBF-0050E439C473@got.net> On Friday, January 31, 2003, at 09:05 AM, Michael Motyka wrote: > Jim Choate wrote : > >>> This list, at least in the Fraunhoffer region, does on some level >>> emanate a >>> Punk attitude, and tolerating the presence of a crypto-fascist or >>> two is >>> something of a consequence. But I'm sick of seeing the Tim May cops >>> come out >>> every time someone suggests a different political notion. >> >> 'Tim May cops'? Not a very punk attitude you have there. You give Tim >> way! >> too much credit. >> > I don't see much apart from anarchy and capitalism - the system is in > place and running > WOT ( Wide Open Throttle ). Tim just doesn't like some of the players. Silliness. The name "cypherpunks" was a pun on "cyberpunks," a pun suggested by Jude Milhon, a woman writer for "Mondo 2000" at the time. Being that there is no body which "decides" what our group is called, or even that it _is_ a group, saying that someone's pun on top of someone else's pun means some political ideology attached to degenerates like Sid Vicious, the Dead Kennedy's, etc., is pure silliness. Whether even "cyberpunks" had anything substantive to do with the so-called punk music scene is debatable, but cypherpunks certainly did not. The political ideology of all musical "punks" I have met is decidedly leftist, and not in the way libertarians often like. Rather, the leftists of British socialism, of American Democrat statists, and of Trotskyites in general. It was a pun on a pun, so to speak. Had someone come up with a funnier pun, something better than officious names like "Crypto Rights," that's probably what the loose association of folks would have been called. But no one did, so Jude's name stuck. That Jim Choate is carrying the banner for leftie punkism is not at all surprising. --Tim May "Ben Franklin warned us that those who would trade liberty for a little bit of temporary security deserve neither. This is the path we are now racing down, with American flags fluttering."-- Tim May, on events following 9/11/2001 From eresrch at eskimo.com Fri Jan 31 15:04:54 2003 From: eresrch at eskimo.com (Mike Rosing) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 15:04:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: Attack Is a Matter of Vulnerability In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030131135628.046b0520@mail.attbi.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, Steve Schear wrote: > http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig3/khan4.html Thanks, that was a fun read. Won't change anything, but I liked it. Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz Thu Jan 30 18:18:44 2003 From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 15:18:44 +1300 Subject: Sovereignty issues and Palladium/TCPA Message-ID: <200301310218.h0V2IiY22752@medusa01.cs.auckland.ac.nz> It looks like Palladium (or whatever it's called this week) is of concern not just to individuals but to governments as well (the following text forwarded from elsewhere): -- Snip -- Governments would want to explore the implications of the use and retention of government-held information and use of software for government business. More particularly, governments are likely to want to explore the issues related to potential foreign control/influence over domestic governmental use/access to domestic government held data. In other words, what are the practical and policy implications for a government if a party external to the government may have the potential power to turn off our access to its own information and that of its citizens. -- Snip -- Unlike China, not everyone can address this problem by building their own systems from the silicon on up. Peter. --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From emc at artifact.psychedelic.net Fri Jan 31 16:50:00 2003 From: emc at artifact.psychedelic.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 16:50:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: Life Sentence for Medical Marijuana? Message-ID: <200302010050.h110o0k10423@artifact.psychedelic.net> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,77234,00.html The Feebs are crowing over their latest victory, having just obtained a conviction against a medical marijuana grower for the city of Oakland. The individual was of course prohibited from any mention at his trial of medical marijuana, that he was growing the stuff legally under a 1996 state law, or any other mitigating factors. "There is no such thing as medical marijuana," said Richard Meyer, a DEA spokesman. "We're Americans first, Californians second." Actually, I think that should be "Assholes First." -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From mbc at debian.org Fri Jan 31 17:11:09 2003 From: mbc at debian.org (Michael Cardenas) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 17:11:09 -0800 Subject: Life Sentence for Medical Marijuana? In-Reply-To: <200302010050.h110o0k10423@artifact.psychedelic.net> References: <200302010050.h110o0k10423@artifact.psychedelic.net> Message-ID: <20030201011109.GK737@rilke> I think this is what you call "taxation without representation" Note also, that the judge in the case was the brother of the supreme court judge who bush appointed who's totally opposed to these sates right cases. Great how bush's daughter, the cocaine addict, isn't in jail, but this man, who was deputized by the city of oakland to grow this marijuana, is going to be in jail for 20 years. Bush himself was arrested for DUI, I wish he was rotting in jail instead of ed. disgusting. On Fri, Jan 31, 2003 at 04:50:00PM -0800, Eric Cordian wrote: > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,77234,00.html > > The Feebs are crowing over their latest victory, having just obtained a > conviction against a medical marijuana grower for the city of Oakland. > > The individual was of course prohibited from any mention at his trial > of medical marijuana, that he was growing the stuff legally under a > 1996 state law, or any other mitigating factors. > > "There is no such thing as medical marijuana," said > Richard Meyer, a DEA spokesman. "We're Americans > first, Californians second." > > Actually, I think that should be "Assholes First." > -- michael cardenas | lead software engineer, lindows.com hyperpoem.net | GNU/Linux software developer people.debian.org/~mbc | encrypted email preferred "We, the men of the mind, are now on strike against you in the name of a single axiom, which is the root of our moral code, just as the root of yours is the wish to escape it: the axiom that existence exists." - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available URL: From eresrch at eskimo.com Fri Jan 31 20:22:24 2003 From: eresrch at eskimo.com (Mike Rosing) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 20:22:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: Life Sentence for Medical Marijuana? In-Reply-To: <20030201011109.GK737@rilke> Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, Michael Cardenas wrote: > I think this is what you call "taxation without representation" > > Note also, that the judge in the case was the brother of the supreme > court judge who bush appointed who's totally opposed to these sates > right cases. > > Great how bush's daughter, the cocaine addict, isn't in jail, but this > man, who was deputized by the city of oakland to grow this marijuana, > is going to be in jail for 20 years. Bush himself was arrested for > DUI, I wish he was rotting in jail instead of ed. > > disgusting. It's round one of the end of prohibition. This will be overturned on appeal eventually, and the feds will move as slowly as possible. It's pretty amazing Ed got away with it for so long. I think it's proof the feds see the end coming and are getting hopelessly desparate. It's interesting that Canadian courts are forcing ganja legalization, and Canadian business is using NAFTA to force the DEA into allowing hemp products. The US is becoming more isolated, but now it's because everyone else is ignoring their stupidity, not because the US is ignoring everyone else. The libertarians are going to have a field day with this one :-) Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike From jon at callas.org Fri Jan 31 22:04:58 2003 From: jon at callas.org (jon) Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 00:04:58 -0600 Subject: A new website Message-ID: <20030201060450.ETOC1404.ygm008.verizon.net@Ztl> From DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk Fri Jan 31 17:39:11 2003 From: DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk (Dave Howe) Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 01:39:11 -0000 Subject: Sovereignty issues and Palladium/TCPA References: <200301310218.h0V2IiY22752@medusa01.cs.auckland.ac.nz> <00bb01c2c91b$a9fb16a0$c71121c2@sharpuk.co.uk> Message-ID: <00fe01c2c992$bb859fe0$01c8a8c0@davehowe> I have seen this *five* times already - is there some sort of wierd mailing loop in action? I am fairly certain I haven't sent it five times spread out over two days....