Forced Oaths to Pieces of Cloth
camera_lumina at hotmail.com
Sun Feb 9 12:18:03 PST 2003
Bill Frantz wrote...
"Except for the fact that one should not trust pledges that are made under
coercion, I am reasonably comfortable with this edited version. It
expresses the ideal nation that I wish the United States would become."
Well, this is probably a lot better than nothing, particularly for a young
But for someone older I would suggest that this is, to some extent, a dodge.
Why? Because who is it you are pledging TO? The notion of the Pledge of
Alleigiance as we know it is a public proclamation of one's affinities. And
in this case, if no one in authority can make out that certain portions of
the Pledge are not being stated, then I would argue that not stating them is
almost as good as useless. It's kind of like a kid crossing his fingers
behind his back while telling a promise, to negate the "lie" of the promise.
>From: Bill Frantz <frantz at pwpconsult.com>
>To: cypherpunks at lne.com
>Subject: Re: Forced Oaths to Pieces of Cloth
>Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 10:57:14 -0800
>At 6:55 AM -0800 2/9/03, Sunder wrote:
> >And also freedom of religion. Forcing someone to say "Under God" for
>Back in the dark ages (the 1950s, and don't anyone get nostalgic for them),
>when the phrase "under god" was added to the pledge, I was a student in
>school. From what they had taught me, I knew then that this addition
>violated the establishment of religion clause. The solution I devised was
>to simply remain silent when this phrase was said.
>Unfortunately having started to question the relation between the pledge
>and the ideals of the country, I started to wonder why I was pledging to
>the flag, instead of the country. So over the years, I have a somewhat
>edited version (removed parts in brackets):
> I pledge allegiance to [the flag of] the United States of America
> [and to the republic for which it stands], one nation [under god],
> indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
>Except for the fact that one should not trust pledges that are made under
>coercion, I am reasonably comfortable with this edited version. It
>expresses the ideal nation that I wish the United States would become.
>Cheers - Bill
>Bill Frantz | Due process for all | Periwinkle -- Consulting
>(408)356-8506 | used to be the Ameican | 16345 Englewood Ave.
>frantz at pwpconsult.com | way. | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA
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