From jtrjtrjtr2001 at yahoo.com Sat Feb 1 06:36:29 2003 From: jtrjtrjtr2001 at yahoo.com (Sarad AV) Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 06:36:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: ICBM's and space programs Message-ID: <20030201143629.70288.qmail@web21202.mail.yahoo.com> hi, Would countries with an advanced space program and with capilities of launching satellites have ICBM capabilities.if yes can they be sucessfully launched with the knowledge that they can successfully launch medium range missiles (2000 to 3000 km range). Regards Sarath. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From hseaver at cybershamanix.com Sat Feb 1 08:50:44 2003 From: hseaver at cybershamanix.com (Harmon Seaver) Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 10:50:44 -0600 Subject: Shuttle Diplomacy Message-ID: <20030201165044.GB18871@cybershamanix.com> Interesting event, eh? Pretty well timed. They're already saying it wasn't a missle, which may be. Could have been a bomb tho -- pretty weird that it's the first problem they've ever had with a landing, and just happens to have the Israeli onboard. Over Texas too. If it weren't terrs, then it must be Allah warning the Great Satan to watch his step. Interesting too that Saddam's eldest son just warned that 9/11 would be a picnic compared to what will happen if the US invades. And then there's those 3,000 Iraqis the feebs said they were looking for.... -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com From hseaver at cybershamanix.com Sat Feb 1 09:53:47 2003 From: hseaver at cybershamanix.com (Harmon Seaver) Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 11:53:47 -0600 Subject: Passenger rail is for adventurers and bums In-Reply-To: <20030201121216.A17049@cluebot.com> References: <20030131155845.GA17191@cybershamanix.com> <147D4F08-354C-11D7-9DBF-0050E439C473@got.net> <20030201121216.A17049@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <20030201175347.GB18920@cybershamanix.com> On Sat, Feb 01, 2003 at 12:12:16PM -0500, Declan McCullagh wrote: > On Fri, Jan 31, 2003 at 10:44:50AM -0800, Tim May wrote: > > I don't know if this is your reason for expecting not to fly > > commercially again, but for anyone who thinks trains will somehow be > > exempted from the national security police state, think again. > > Right. One Democratic "anti-terror" proposal would link police to Amtrak > databases: http://www.politechbot.com/p-02715.html > > Even before Sept 11, Amtrak was sharing passenger info with the DEA > for drug prosecutions: > http://www.politechbot.com/p-01909.html > > Come on, folks -- Amtrak is a federal government entity. It will be in the > vanguard of the next big push to advance the national security state. Of course. I have no doubt whatsoever that we'll soon see checkpoints at every entrance and exit to all cities where they search the cars and passengers. It's only a matter of time. And probably require "visas" to travel anywhere, or at least pre-trip filing of "travel plans." -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com From declan at well.com Sat Feb 1 09:12:16 2003 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 12:12:16 -0500 Subject: Passenger rail is for adventurers and bums In-Reply-To: <147D4F08-354C-11D7-9DBF-0050E439C473@got.net>; from tcmay@got.net on Fri, Jan 31, 2003 at 10:44:50AM -0800 References: <20030131155845.GA17191@cybershamanix.com> <147D4F08-354C-11D7-9DBF-0050E439C473@got.net> Message-ID: <20030201121216.A17049@cluebot.com> On Fri, Jan 31, 2003 at 10:44:50AM -0800, Tim May wrote: > I don't know if this is your reason for expecting not to fly > commercially again, but for anyone who thinks trains will somehow be > exempted from the national security police state, think again. Right. One Democratic "anti-terror" proposal would link police to Amtrak databases: http://www.politechbot.com/p-02715.html Even before Sept 11, Amtrak was sharing passenger info with the DEA for drug prosecutions: http://www.politechbot.com/p-01909.html Come on, folks -- Amtrak is a federal government entity. It will be in the vanguard of the next big push to advance the national security state. -Declan From tcmay at got.net Sat Feb 1 12:31:16 2003 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 12:31:16 -0800 Subject: Who owns stuff that falls onto someone's property? Message-ID: <1D350633-3624-11D7-9DBF-0050E439C473@got.net> Expect the first EBay auctions of debris from the "Columbia" to be a constitutional issue soon. (Actually, the censors at fascist EBay have probably already flagged any transactions which mention "space shuttle" and "Columbia" to be illegal thoughtcrime sales.) Many tons of debris, scattered over at least three states. The FedGov is already trying to claim control over the entire debris field. (Of course, those in the know would be interested in any debris which includes artifacts from Shen Zou 4, the module left in orbit by the Chinese satellite launch, said by Jane's to be a military surveillance satellite, China's first, and said to have been a recovery mission by the three payload specialists on the classified STS-107 misison. The possibility that the Chinese set a 3-kg explosive charge to detonate under accelerometer signals is...interesting.) Janes.com: "SZ 4 left its orbital module in orbit, where it will operate as an independent satellite for six or seven months, conducting Earth observation (perhaps military as well as civil), science and technical experiments. " But, of course, such speculations are now banned under orders of HomeSec Internal Security Directorate 117-4, so I am making no such speculations. --Tim May "Ben Franklin warned us that those who would trade liberty for a little bit of temporary security deserve neither. This is the path we are now racing down, with American flags fluttering."-- Tim May, on events following 9/11/2001 From hseaver at cybershamanix.com Sat Feb 1 11:12:55 2003 From: hseaver at cybershamanix.com (Harmon Seaver) Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 13:12:55 -0600 Subject: Carter's statement yesterday Message-ID: <20030201191255.GA19174@cybershamanix.com> Does anyone know where a copy of Jimmy Carter's statement yesterday can be found? Tried a google and got a zillion hits. From the Washington Post's take, it sounded quite interesting. Gee, Tim must be right, I must be a lefty if Jimmy Carter is starting to sound good. 8-) And I've even decided that come the next senate race in WI, I'm going to vote Dem for the first time in my life, at least if Feingold is running. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com From emc at artifact.psychedelic.net Sat Feb 1 14:10:44 2003 From: emc at artifact.psychedelic.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 14:10:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: Shuttle Humor Message-ID: <200302012210.h11MAiH12054@artifact.psychedelic.net> PRICELESS --------- Zionist Entity air force training: $750,000 Unprovoked attack on another country's nuclear installation: $350,000 Bribes to US Congressmen to promote "Zionist in Space" program: $1,250,000 The look on your fellow astronauts' faces right before the grenade you are holding explodes -- PRICELESS There are some things money can't buy, for everything else there's MasterCard. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From bethenco at upl.cs.wisc.edu Sat Feb 1 16:01:11 2003 From: bethenco at upl.cs.wisc.edu (John Bethencourt) Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 18:01:11 -0600 Subject: Who owns stuff that falls onto someone's property? In-Reply-To: <1D350633-3624-11D7-9DBF-0050E439C473@got.net> References: <1D350633-3624-11D7-9DBF-0050E439C473@got.net> Message-ID: <20030202000111.GA31402@upl.cs.wisc.edu> On Sat, Feb 01, 2003 at 12:31:16PM -0800, Tim May wrote: > > Expect the first EBay auctions of debris from the "Columbia" to be a > constitutional issue soon. (Actually, the censors at fascist EBay have > probably already flagged any transactions which mention "space shuttle" > and "Columbia" to be illegal thoughtcrime sales.) Yep, ebay has already removed such auctions, e.g., item #2156954390, `SPACE SHUTTLE COLUMBIA PIECE OF WRECKAGE PART'. John Bethencourt From camera_lumina at hotmail.com Sat Feb 1 15:12:17 2003 From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden) Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 18:12:17 -0500 Subject: Life Sentence for Medical Marijuana? Message-ID: "Great how bush's daughter, the cocaine addict, isn't in jail, but this man, who was deputized by the city of oakland to grow this marijuana, is going to be in jail for 20 years. Bush himself was arrested for DUI, I wish he was rotting in jail instead of ed." Hold it...Bush's relationship with Cocaine is on a first name basis at least. What's this about him as Governer of Texas flying the same plane that had supposedly moved the cocaine for the drugs-for-guns part of Iran Contra? And then there's the PERSISTENT rumors of him actually taking an accidental DEA bust in a Florida airport after landing a fresh new cargo. Supposedly this was a bit of a snafu and they had to let him go on the hush-hush...(And I keep hearing there's video of that bust.) Do some fishing around on http://www.spitfirelist.com/ftr.html and you'll eventually see the references. OK, maybe it's conspiracy theory crapola, but when you start seeing a LONG list of dates/times/places, you begin to wonder that perhaps at least a subset is true. -TD PS: I personally think it would be a waste for that hot little coke slut to get locked away. _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From declan at well.com Sat Feb 1 15:14:15 2003 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 18:14:15 -0500 Subject: Encrypted hard drive enclosure for $139 Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030201181132.026a5828@mail.well.com> http://fwdepot.com/thestore/product_info.php?products_id=331 http://www.del trontech.com/Enclosure/E3S/E3S.htm Interesting, but I'm confused about the "Real-time 64-bit/ 40-bit DES (Data Encryption Standard) Encryption/ Decryption with throughput of 712Mbit/ sec" Does anyone know about a stronger version of a similar device? -Declan From camera_lumina at hotmail.com Sat Feb 1 15:33:50 2003 From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden) Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 18:33:50 -0500 Subject: punk and free markets Message-ID: Tim May wrote... >Silliness. The name "cypherpunks" was a pun on "cyberpunks," a pun >suggested by Jude Milhon, a woman writer for "Mondo 2000" at the time. > >Being that there is no body which "decides" what our group is called, or >even that it _is_ a group, saying that someone's pun on top of someone >else's pun means some political ideology attached to degenerates like Sid >Vicious, the Dead Kennedy's, etc., is pure silliness. > >Whether even "cyberpunks" had anything substantive to do with the so-called >punk music scene is debatable, but cypherpunks certainly did not. The >political ideology of all musical "punks" I have met is decidedly leftist, >and not in the way libertarians often like. Rather, the leftists of British >socialism, of American Democrat statists, and of Trotskyites in general. Sometimes I keep asking myself if the author of statements like these is really pretending Guru-like to be clueless just to elicit a response. But it's obvious here that whoever "Tim May" is he's just about clueless. In the discussions about the meaning of the suffix "-punk" I don't remember seeing any suggestion that "Cypherpunks" had any connection politically or music-wise to punk music. The posts were meant to explore what quintessentially punk flavorings might be implied by the name or that may be reflected in the overall makeup of the list. And yes, I was aware of where the term originated from, and it was clear to me that the intent of the naming was to imply a sort of anti-establishment "don't give a crap we're going to code and unload crypto apps" attitude. And to some extent, the list (no, not a group, but a set of lists with the name cypherpunks) has aspects of that character. But it always pisses me off when I see the local jocks or other thoughtpolice come on out and enforce whatever ideology it is desired we bow down to. Hmmm...a song lyric comes to mind... "If you've come to fight, get outa here You ain't no better than the bouncers We ain't trying to be police When you ape the cops it ain't anarchy" (From "Nazi Punks Fuck Off" by the Dead Kennedys) _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Sat Feb 1 19:33:16 2003 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 19:33:16 -0800 Subject: Encrypted hard drive enclosure for $139 In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030201181132.026a5828@mail.well.com> Message-ID: <000201c2ca6b$d4ee3e90$6601a8c0@VAIO650> Declan wrote: > http://fwdepot.com/thestore/product_info.php?products_id=331 > http://www.del > trontech.com/Enclosure/E3S/E3S.htm > > Interesting, but I'm confused about the "Real-time 64-bit/ > 40-bit DES (Data > Encryption Standard) Encryption/ Decryption with throughput > of 712Mbit/ sec" > > Does anyone know about a stronger version of a similar device? This looks very similar to the dLock device. http://www.enovatek.com.tw/realtime-hd.htm Perhaps they are using the same ASIC? If so, the product is pure crap. Based on conversations that I had with the booth staff at the last RSA conference, the dLock employs DES and 3DES in ECB mode. Meaning the ciphertext on disk can be broken with the most trivial of cryptanalysis. --Lucky From schear at attbi.com Sat Feb 1 20:41:24 2003 From: schear at attbi.com (Steve Schear) Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 20:41:24 -0800 Subject: Who owns stuff that falls onto someone's property? In-Reply-To: <20030202000111.GA31402@upl.cs.wisc.edu> References: <1D350633-3624-11D7-9DBF-0050E439C473@got.net> <1D350633-3624-11D7-9DBF-0050E439C473@got.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030201195743.04721780@mail.attbi.com> At 06:01 PM 2/1/2003 -0600, John Bethencourt wrote: >On Sat, Feb 01, 2003 at 12:31:16PM -0800, Tim May wrote: > > > > Expect the first EBay auctions of debris from the "Columbia" to be a > > constitutional issue soon. (Actually, the censors at fascist EBay have > > probably already flagged any transactions which mention "space shuttle" > > and "Columbia" to be illegal thoughtcrime sales.) > >Yep, ebay has already removed such auctions, e.g., item #2156954390, >`SPACE SHUTTLE COLUMBIA PIECE OF WRECKAGE PART'. Perhaps this is an opportunity for competitive, even offshore, auction sites to take the fore. http://www.goldbarter.com uses e-gold. steve From camera_lumina at hotmail.com Sat Feb 1 19:36:04 2003 From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden) Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 22:36:04 -0500 Subject: Shuttle Diplomacy Message-ID: Well, one little trick I learned from the natives from living in China is to see what's being denied the most vehemently. If, over the next few days, they keep saying "It's not a missle, it's not a missle", then you KNOW it's a fuckin missle. (It worked a little differently in China...if they thought Deng Xiao Peng and whoever was having a lot of political friction, they'd wait to see if there were lots of pictures in the papers of those two guys shaking hands. Then they'd know the rumors were confirmed.) Another sign to look for is the "doublethink" sign...if some theory is being discussed that seems pretty important but then a few days later there's absolutely no more mention of it, then that's a real good candidate for the truth. -TD >From: Thomas Shaddack >To: >Subject: Re: Shuttle Diplomacy >Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 03:59:13 +0100 (CET) > > > One of the current theories floating around has to do with a piece of >debris > > that flew off the booster rocket during take-off and collided with the >left > > wing (where the problems began). The video of the take-off was reviewed >in > > great detail and it was determined that it was innocent, considering the > > proximity of the problems and the debris there appears to be at least > > something worth investigating. > >According to Slashdot, the ground control started to lose data from >shuttle's sensors; first from the back of the left wing, then spreading >forward, then all the shuttle went dead. Sounds like a structural damage. >The takeoff damage could've been a contributing factor; one single >slightly loosened tile can be deadly in such speeds. > >I just hope they won't mothball the ISS... _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From declan at well.com Sat Feb 1 21:48:40 2003 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 00:48:40 -0500 Subject: punk and free markets In-Reply-To: ; from camera_lumina@hotmail.com on Sat, Feb 01, 2003 at 06:33:50PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20030202004840.A26401@cluebot.com> On Sat, Feb 01, 2003 at 06:33:50PM -0500, Tyler Durden wrote: > name cypherpunks) has aspects of that character. But it always pisses me off > when I see the local jocks or other thoughtpolice come on out and enforce > whatever ideology it is desired we bow down to. "Jocks enforcing ideology" seems to me to be a concept coterminous with "flaming the clueless." :) -Declan From shaddack at ns.arachne.cz Sat Feb 1 16:42:18 2003 From: shaddack at ns.arachne.cz (Thomas Shaddack) Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 01:42:18 +0100 (CET) Subject: Shuttle Diplomacy In-Reply-To: <20030201165044.GB18871@cybershamanix.com> Message-ID: > Interesting event, eh? Pretty well timed. They're already saying it wasn't a > missle, which may be. Or they want us to think so, playing double-bluff. (It isn't possible to get a missile up there quickly enough and accurately enough to hit so high and fast target. (Though one can never rule out an infrared MIRACL-class laser. But a plain vanilla mechanical failure seems more probable. Remember, most airplanes that crash don't contain any bomb, and the most vicious terrorist is lousy maintenance.) > Could have been a bomb tho -- pretty weird that it's the first problem > they've ever had with a landing, and just happens to have the Israeli > onboard. Once it had to be the first time, especially with the cost-cutting so common these days, and with the careerism and bureaucracy that thrives in the management of every big organization. > Over Texas too. If it weren't terrs, then it must be Allah warning the > Great Satan to watch his step. Over Texas it was in just the right flight phase to experience problems; just the point where the shuttle was about to switch from spacecraft to aircraft mode, switching to alternate control systems. > Interesting too that Saddam's eldest son just warned that 9/11 would be a > picnic compared to what will happen if the US invades. And then there's those > 3,000 Iraqis the feebs said they were looking for.... Saddam's family is known for having bigger mouths than capabilities. Especially in this case, I'd bet my shoes on Murphy; Columbia was an old lady that had her problems even before the launch itself. I'd bet on something stupid, like loosened tiles or computer malfunction (though more likely the tiles, as the computers are backed up). Remember Challenger, where the fault was a stupid O-ring. Shame Feynmann is dead :((( I'd LOVE to read his report about this one. From schear at attbi.com Sun Feb 2 08:27:06 2003 From: schear at attbi.com (Steve Schear) Date: Sun Feb 2, 2003 8:27:06 PM US/Pacific Subject: Say goodbye to the ISS Message-ID: 1998/05/13) Sun Feb 2 20:40:39 2003) Received: from psmtp.com (exprod5mx6.postini.com [64.75.1.146]) by sphinx.got.net (8.12.2/8.12.2/Debian -5) with SMTP id h134WVIk017383 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 20:32:31 -0800 Received: from source ([209.157.136.81]) by exprod5mx6.postini.com ([64.75.1.245]) with SMTP; Sun, 02 Feb 2003 23:32:32 EST Received: (from majordom at localhost) by gw.lne.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) id h134PUZq020838 for cypherpunks-goingout345; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 20:25:30 -0800 X-From_: owner-cypherpunks at lne.com Sun Feb 2 20:32:33 2003 Return-Path: X-Authentication-Warning: slack.lne.com: majordom set sender to owner-cypherpunks at lne.com using -f Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030202200948.046d5fb8 at mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: schear at mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-cypherpunks at lne.com Precedence: bulk From kenhirsch at myself.com Sun Feb 2 05:32:01 2003 From: kenhirsch at myself.com (Ken Hirsch) Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 08:32:01 -0500 Subject: Who owns stuff that falls onto someone's property? References: <1D350633-3624-11D7-9DBF-0050E439C473@got.net> <1D350633-3624-11D7-9DBF-0050E439C473@got.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20030201195743.04721780@mail.attbi.com> Message-ID: <011401c2cabf$7a30ad90$6601a8c0@DXHIRX1> From: "Steve Schear" > > > Expect the first EBay auctions of debris from the "Columbia" to be a > > > constitutional issue soon. (Actually, the censors at fascist EBay have > > > probably already flagged any transactions which mention "space shuttle" > > > and "Columbia" to be illegal thoughtcrime sales.) > > > >Yep, ebay has already removed such auctions, e.g., item #2156954390, > >`SPACE SHUTTLE COLUMBIA PIECE OF WRECKAGE PART'. > > Perhaps this is an opportunity for competitive, even offshore, auction > sites to take the fore. I don't think there are any difficult legal issues involved. If you drop your wallet on someone's property, it is still your wallet. If you crash your car onto somebody's front yard, it's still your car (for better or worse). If a plane crashes carrying U.S. mail, the Post Office gathers up whatever mail it can find and tries to deliver it. Would you have it any other way? Even if ownership was in question, does anybody really think it's a good idea to sell the pieces of evidence while the accident investigation is going on? From jya at pipeline.com Sun Feb 2 09:32:47 2003 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 09:32:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: Flaming the Clueless Message-ID: <845427.1044185506090.JavaMail.nobody@wamui03.slb.atl.earthlink.net> It's common for those accomplished in one field to believe that ability is confidently transferrable to another, in particular for social, political and religious matters -- and vice versa. Endeavors which require close, sustained concentration and logical methodologies seldom help with challenges which require noodling, free-form creativity, openness to disagreement, compromise. And vice versa. Disaster looms when a logical minded person gains political power and sets out to arrange a nation into a perfect society as if a machine for sharply controlled output. And vice versa when a muddled-headed dreamer sets out to design and manufacture physical structures. Yet again and again this happens: logical nuts get into positions of political power -- left, right and center, anarcho and theological -- and all to often millions suffer, and multi-thousands are murdered. Or an all-loving putz so narcotizes adherents to believe heaven on earth is at hand that mass suicide occurs, not least by letting a logical nut annihilate the willing victims. Cluelessness abounds, not only on cpunks but in all fields, almost as commonplace as clueless flaming. Flaming the clueless is perfect proof that flamers are no wiser than those they mimic. Never let an over-confident thinker run anything except bath water and never obey a beloved mush-brain calling for war. Yet here we are, flaming the clueless at hand as if whistling is courageous deep-thinking. Auto-didact, heal your ignorance, to be sure, a contradiction. From schear at attbi.com Sun Feb 2 09:34:04 2003 From: schear at attbi.com (Steve Schear) Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 09:34:04 -0800 Subject: Rocket Man Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030202093146.046738b8@mail.attbi.com> "Rocket Man" By Tom Rapp (from the Pearls Before Swine album "The Use of Ashes", 1970) My father was a rocket man He often went to Jupiter or Mercury, to Venus or to Mars My mother and I would watch the sky And wonder if a falling star Was a ship becoming ashes with a rocket man inside My mother and I Never went out Unless the sky was cloudy or the sun was blotted out Or to escape the pain We only went out when it rained My father was a rocket man He loved the world beyond the world, the sky beyond the sky And on my mother's face, as lonely as the world in space I could read the silent cry That if my father fell into a star We must not look upon that star again My mother and I Never went out Unless the sky was cloudy or the sun was blotted out Or to escape the pain We only went out when it rained Tears are often jewel-like My mother's went unnoticed by my father, for his jewels were the stars And in my father's eyes I knew he had to find In the sanctity of distance something brighter than a star One day they told us the sun had flared and taken him inside My mother and I Never went out Unless the sky was cloudy or the sun was blotted out Or to escape the pain We only went out when it rained My father was a rocket man He often went to Jupiter or Mercury, to Venus or to Mars My mother and I would watch the sky And wonder if a falling star Was a ship becoming ashes with a rocket man inside My mother and I Never went out Unless the sky was cloudy or the sun was blotted out Or to escape the pain We only went out when it rained My father was a rocket man He loved the world beyond the world, the sky beyond the sky And on my mother's face, as lonely as the world in space I could read the silent cry That if my father fell into a star We must not look upon that star again My mother and I Never went out Unless the sky was cloudy or the sun was blotted out Or to escape the pain We only went out when it rained Tears are often jewel-like My mother's went unnoticed by my father, for his jewels were the stars And in my father's eyes I knew he had to find In the sanctity of distance something brighter than a star One day they told us the sun had flared and taken him inside My mother and I Never went out Unless the sky was cloudy or the sun was blotted out Or to escape the pain We only went out when it rained "Reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard P. Feynman From tcmay at got.net Sun Feb 2 10:19:27 2003 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 10:19:27 -0800 Subject: "Touching shuttle debris may cause bad spirits to invade your body!" Message-ID: Journalists may as well be saying the above, saying that shuttle debris has evil spirits which can come out if the debris is touched. Part of the dumbing down of America, and of journalism. (I just heard one Fox News anchorbimbo referring to the Russian rocket launched today as "bringing supplies to the space station.) The journalists are spouting the NASA line that shuttle debris may be "hot" and may have dangerous substances. Right. As if the heat and spinning and 12000 mph turbulence hasn't scrubbed every surface of its volatiles. What they want is for people not to collect the pieces and hang on to them on their fireplace mantles. Or to try to sell them at flea markets and EBay. But the only way they think they can frighten people off is to utter obvious gibberish about how the pieces are "hot" and "may be toxic." "DALLAS (AP) - From corrosive fuels to ammonia-like liquids, insulation and plastics, space shuttle Columbia carried a witch's brew of toxic and caustic materials designed to work in the hostile environment of space. "Authorities warned the public to stay away from shuttle debris because it could be harmful. "Perry said either liquid oxygen from the shuttle's fuel system or liquid nitrogen used to inflate the tires could be dangerous. " Right. Those charred and warped pieces of metal are going to have liquid oxygen and/or liquid nitrogen on them...after the fall and after sitting on the ground (not to mentioned being so "hot," other NASA droids and reporters report). (Needless to say, any look at the images of the designated officials picking up the bits of debris shows no HAZMAT suits, no welding gloves to deal with the "hot" debris. The pickup crews are just wearing ordinary coveralls and uniforms.) Last laugh: CNN is carrying (10:06 a.m. PST) an "information" slug at the bottom of a Wolf Blitzer interview: "Columbia was traveling 18 times faster than the speed of light." Yes, "speed of light." Speaking of journalists, why does Wolf Blitzer repeat this obvious lie about the metal bits and pieces being tainted by evil spirits? Because these so-called journalists are stooges for the state. A real journalist would just roll his eyes and say "Look, folks, NASA wants these pieces to be aid in reconstructing the accident. There are no traces of liquid propellants and deadly chemicals on these pieces. And they certainly didn't stay hot for long. NASA is trying to get us to feed you jive so you'll be properly frightened and won't touch them.?" --Tim May, Occupied America "They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759. From tcmay at got.net Sun Feb 2 10:36:27 2003 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 10:36:27 -0800 Subject: "Touching shuttle debris may cause bad spirits to invade your body!" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3D6FF861-36DD-11D7-9DBF-0050E439C473@got.net> On Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 10:19 AM, Tim May wrote: > > > Last laugh: CNN is carrying (10:06 a.m. PST) an "information" slug at > the bottom of a Wolf Blitzer interview: "Columbia was traveling 18 > times faster than the speed of light." > > Yes, "speed of light." > This same slug has since appeared several more times, suggesting only complete morons and scientific illiterates are manning the control rooms. --Tim May From frantz at pwpconsult.com Sun Feb 2 11:49:25 2003 From: frantz at pwpconsult.com (Bill Frantz) Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 11:49:25 -0800 Subject: "Touching shuttle debris may cause bad spirits to invade your body!" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 10:19 AM -0800 2/2/03, Tim May wrote: >Last laugh: CNN is carrying (10:06 a.m. PST) an "information" slug at >the bottom of a Wolf Blitzer interview: "Columbia was traveling 18 >times faster than the speed of light." > >Yes, "speed of light." "Please mister spaceman, won't you please take me along for a ride." - J. McGuinn ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | Due process for all | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | used to be the Ameican | 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz at pwpconsult.com | way. | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA From steve at tightrope.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 2 05:25:46 2003 From: steve at tightrope.demon.co.uk (Steve Mynott) Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 13:25:46 -0000 Subject: Passenger rail is for adventurers and bums In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030201235652.02d92670@idiom.com> Message-ID: Bill Stewart > Tim commented about railroad stations being in the ugly parts of town. > That's driven by several things - decay of the inner cities, > as cars and commuter trains have let businesses move out to suburbs, > and also the difference between railroad stations that were > built for passengers (New York's Grand Central, Washington's > Union Station) In the UK at least railway stations tend to have been built in the ugly parts of towns for good reason -- simply because land is a lot cheaper in the low rent parts of town. Also railways stations and the associated cheap hotels with a large transient population tend to attract undesirables such as drug dealers, muggers and hookers and the sort of thing which pushs the value of your house down and nice middle class people don't want on their doorstep. The people in richer areas tend to have more political clout and more effectively oppose development of this sort. -- Steve From camera_lumina at hotmail.com Sun Feb 2 10:56:10 2003 From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden) Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 13:56:10 -0500 Subject: punk and free markets Message-ID: Declan: Yes perhaps. I try not to think too much (I don't trust 'thinking' unless its mathematics or a good experimental setup), but I'll ponder for a while, to the extent that I am able.... -TD >From: Declan McCullagh >To: Tyler Durden >CC: tcmay at got.net, cypherpunks at minder.net >Subject: Re: punk and free markets >Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 00:48:40 -0500 > >On Sat, Feb 01, 2003 at 06:33:50PM -0500, Tyler Durden wrote: > > name cypherpunks) has aspects of that character. But it always pisses me >off > > when I see the local jocks or other thoughtpolice come on out and >enforce > > whatever ideology it is desired we bow down to. > >"Jocks enforcing ideology" seems to me to be a concept coterminous >with "flaming the clueless." > >:) > >-Declan _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From camera_lumina at hotmail.com Sun Feb 2 11:01:22 2003 From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden) Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 14:01:22 -0500 Subject: Flaming the Clueless Message-ID: Jesus H....(I assume the 'H' was instered to avert the condemnation of blasphemy)...quite a good post. Heard and duly noted. -TD >From: John Young >To: cypherpunks at lne.com >Subject: Flaming the Clueless >Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 09:32:47 -0800 (PST) > >It's common for those accomplished in one field to believe that ability is >confidently transferrable to another, in particular for social, political >and religious matters -- and vice versa. > >Endeavors which require close, sustained concentration and logical >methodologies seldom help with challenges which require noodling, free-form >creativity, openness to disagreement, compromise. And vice versa. > >Disaster looms when a logical minded person gains political power and sets >out to arrange a nation into a perfect society as if a machine for sharply >controlled output. And vice versa when a muddled-headed dreamer sets out to >design and manufacture physical structures. > >Yet again and again this happens: logical nuts get into positions of >political power -- left, right and center, anarcho and theological -- and >all to often millions suffer, and multi-thousands are murdered. Or an >all-loving putz so narcotizes adherents to believe heaven on earth is at >hand that mass suicide occurs, not least by letting a logical nut >annihilate the willing victims. > >Cluelessness abounds, not only on cpunks but in all fields, almost as >commonplace as clueless flaming. Flaming the clueless is perfect proof that >flamers are no wiser than those they mimic. > >Never let an over-confident thinker run anything except bath water and >never obey a beloved mush-brain calling for war. Yet here we are, flaming >the clueless at hand as if whistling is courageous deep-thinking. > >Auto-didact, heal your ignorance, to be sure, a contradiction. _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From camera_lumina at hotmail.com Sun Feb 2 11:06:30 2003 From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden) Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 14:06:30 -0500 Subject: "Touching shuttle debris may cause bad spirits to invade your body!" Message-ID: Tim May wrote... "Last laugh: CNN is carrying (10:06 a.m. PST) an "information" slug at the bottom of a Wolf Blitzer interview: "Columbia was traveling 18 times faster than the speed of light." Yes, "speed of light." " Yo Choate! Want to take a crack at this? Please explain using your theories how the shuttle can be traveling 18 times faster than light! -TD "Ain't I a stinker?" BB >From: Tim May >To: cypherpunks at lne.com >Subject: "Touching shuttle debris may cause bad spirits to invade your >body!" >Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 10:19:27 -0800 > >Journalists may as well be saying the above, saying that shuttle debris has >evil spirits which can come out if the debris is touched. > >Part of the dumbing down of America, and of journalism. (I just heard one >Fox News anchorbimbo referring to the Russian rocket launched today as >"bringing supplies to the space station.) > >The journalists are spouting the NASA line that shuttle debris may be "hot" >and may have dangerous substances. Right. As if the heat and spinning and >12000 mph turbulence hasn't scrubbed every surface of its volatiles. > >What they want is for people not to collect the pieces and hang on to them >on their fireplace mantles. Or to try to sell them at flea markets and >EBay. > >But the only way they think they can frighten people off is to utter >obvious gibberish about how the pieces are "hot" and "may be toxic." > >"DALLAS (AP) - From corrosive fuels to ammonia-like liquids, insulation and >plastics, space shuttle Columbia carried a witch's brew of toxic and >caustic materials designed to work in the hostile environment of space. > >"Authorities warned the public to stay away from shuttle debris because it >could be harmful. > >"Perry said either liquid oxygen from the shuttle's fuel system or liquid >nitrogen used to inflate the tires could be dangerous. " > >Right. Those charred and warped pieces of metal are going to have liquid >oxygen and/or liquid nitrogen on them...after the fall and after sitting on >the ground (not to mentioned being so "hot," other NASA droids and >reporters report). > >(Needless to say, any look at the images of the designated officials >picking up the bits of debris shows no HAZMAT suits, no welding gloves to >deal with the "hot" debris. The pickup crews are just wearing ordinary >coveralls and uniforms.) > >Last laugh: CNN is carrying (10:06 a.m. PST) an "information" slug at the >bottom of a Wolf Blitzer interview: "Columbia was traveling 18 times faster >than the speed of light." > >Yes, "speed of light." > >Speaking of journalists, why does Wolf Blitzer repeat this obvious lie >about the metal bits and pieces being tainted by evil spirits? Because >these so-called journalists are stooges for the state. > >A real journalist would just roll his eyes and say "Look, folks, NASA wants >these pieces to be aid in reconstructing the accident. There are no traces >of liquid propellants and deadly chemicals on these pieces. And they >certainly didn't stay hot for long. NASA is trying to get us to feed you >jive so you'll be properly frightened and won't touch them.?" > > >--Tim May, Occupied America >"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety >deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From declan at well.com Sun Feb 2 12:15:36 2003 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 15:15:36 -0500 Subject: punk and free markets In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030202150354.01c6ce88@mail.well.com> At 01:56 PM 2/2/2003 -0500, Tyler Durden wrote: >Yes perhaps. I try not to think too much (I don't trust 'thinking' unless >its mathematics or a good experimental setup), but I'll ponder for a >while, to the extent that I am able.... Well, my response was meant to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek, of course, and I'm sure I deserved whatever polite reprimand lurked within John Young's, um, reply. But no subscriber, at least to a first approximation, has the power to shut others up here ("come on out and enforce whatever ideology it is desired we bow down to"). If you think that Tim is being critical, well, that's the way that Tim is sometimes. Go ahead and killfile him. I routed two subscribers to my trash folder years ago on the account I use to subscribe to cypherpunks and do not regret it. Not only is complaining not going to work, it's not a very cypherpunkly thing to do (to the extent that there is any commonly-held understanding of cypherpunkly duties, you know). :) -Declan From tcmay at got.net Sun Feb 2 17:40:55 2003 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 17:40:55 -0800 Subject: "Touching shuttle debris may cause bad spirits to invade your body!" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <893D09E8-3718-11D7-9DBF-0050E439C473@got.net> On Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 04:11 PM, Sunder wrote: > > Far more than likely, the truth is closer that the Space Shuttles have > been performing ultra sensitive spy work - launching new spy > satelites, or > repairing them, and may have pieces of spy satelites on them. > > Let's see, we're going into war with Iraq, and we're sending up the > shuttle to do experiments on how furry weavols behave under zero > gravity... uh huh. But, but, but the Israeli Payload Specialist, the Colonel in the IDF who was on the bombing mission to take out the Osirak reactor in Iraq in 1981, certainly was not involved with any kind of surveillance satellite work! His sole duty was to investigate the effects of gamma rays on man-in-the-moon marigolds. That's NASA's story...and they're sticking to it. "Pay no attention to the Israeli Defense Forces spy behind the DOD curtain!" (Several times in the past we have only been told long after the fact that what had been billed as a "scientific mission" by NSA, er, NASA, was actually a military mission. Given that missions are very, very expensive and usually have somewhat-justifiable mission goals, the fact that this mission had no publically-disclosed goals except "science fair projects" suggests strongly why the Israeli pilot was on this particular mission. And Pakistan may be wondering what the Indian woman was doing.) --Tim May From tcmay at got.net Sun Feb 2 18:23:32 2003 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 18:23:32 -0800 Subject: "Touching shuttle debris may cause bad spirits to invade your body!" In-Reply-To: <037f01c2cb25$94f04d00$01c8a8c0@davehowe> Message-ID: <7D775BCF-371E-11D7-9DBF-0050E439C473@got.net> On Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 05:42 PM, Dave Howe wrote: > Sunder wrote: >> Let's see, we're going into war with Iraq, and we're sending up the >> shuttle to do experiments on how furry weavols behave under zero >> gravity... uh huh. > Lothe though I am to shed doubt on your consipiracy theories - but the > shuttle was on its way *down*. Why would they be bringing sooper > Sekrit spy > satellites back? You haven't been reading. Cf. the threads on the Chinese Shen Zou satellite, left in orbit less than a month ago. SZ-4 is of deep interest to the IDF (Payload Specialist Ramon, who is not Mexican) and to the NRO. --Tim May "You don't expect governments to obey the law because of some higher moral development. You expect them to obey the law because they know that if they don't, those who aren't shot will be hanged." - -Michael Shirley From reinhold at world.std.com Sun Feb 2 17:49:10 2003 From: reinhold at world.std.com (reinhold) Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 19:49:10 -0600 Subject: A special excite game Message-ID: <20030203014902.SZPB1323.ygm007.verizon.net@Typ> From tcmay at got.net Sun Feb 2 20:42:57 2003 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 20:42:57 -0800 Subject: Apparently search warrants are not needed to enter property if NASA wants to Message-ID: Watching some of the news coverage of the search (from the aptly named Palestine, Texas), it's clear that no search warrants are being gotten for the debris searchers to enter farms, yards, backyards, corporation lands, ranches, etc. The cameras show them simply vaulting fences and looking for anything they can find. When was the Fourth Amendment and "a man's home is his castle" suspended? If a property owner defends his borders with a shotgun, is he shipped to Camp X-Ray? Fuck this country. Fuck it dead. Osama, we beseech you!! --Tim May "The State is the great fiction by which everyone seeks to live at the expense of everyone else." --Frederic Bastiat From frantz at pwpconsult.com Sun Feb 2 21:25:01 2003 From: frantz at pwpconsult.com (Bill Frantz) Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 21:25:01 -0800 Subject: "Real Facts" and "Good Facts" In-Reply-To: <200302022026.h12KQ4j13961@artifact.psychedelic.net> Message-ID: At 12:26 PM -0800 2/2/03, Eric Cordian quoted: >In another teletext moment on CNN, the shuttle was described as traveling >at "Mock 18." We mach (sic) their idiocy. Cheers - Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | Due process for all | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | used to be the Ameican | 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz at pwpconsult.com | way. | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA From frantz at pwpconsult.com Sun Feb 2 21:32:26 2003 From: frantz at pwpconsult.com (Bill Frantz) Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 21:32:26 -0800 Subject: Say goodbye to the ISS In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030202200948.046d5fb8@mail.attbi.com> Message-ID: At 8:27 PM -0800 2/2/03, Steve Schear wrote: >As some friends in the U.S. space program had privately predicted, and the >New York Times is today reporting, unless the problem with the Shuttle can >be quickly identified and convincingly rectified to worried legislators, >the International Space Station may have to be moth balled and the NASA >manned space program put on hold. >http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/02/science/02cnd-stati.html I heard someone today suggesting that it was time to replace the shuttle. After all, it's 25 year old technology. I kind of expect a program to be proposed with all the usual reasons why it is "good for the country". ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | Due process for all | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | used to be the Ameican | 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz at pwpconsult.com | way. | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA From steve49152 at yahoo.ca Sun Feb 2 19:03:49 2003 From: steve49152 at yahoo.ca (Steve Thompson) Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 22:03:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: "Touching shuttle debris may cause bad spirits to invade your body!" In-Reply-To: <20030202165741.A19612@slack.lne.com> Message-ID: <20030203030349.39432.qmail@web41201.mail.yahoo.com> --- Eric Murray wrote: > On Sun, Feb > I'm not sure which is more irritating-- the obvious > way in which > the govermedia manipulate the issue, or their > automatic assumption that > americans are too stupid/criminal to turn in all the > parts they > find if NASA just said "we need all the parts, > please bring 'em in". In part it seems it is because such a vast number of people in America have been so well served by the education system that the most effective way to coerce obedience is to invoke their fear of the unknown. I'm sure that the other part of the equation is that the government officials responsible for the cleanup feel they must take advantage of every oppourtunity to assert their authority; to make it impicit to every command/request. It is an insult to the intelligence, but to speak out in indignation invites the wrath of the low-level, insecure powers that be. Regards, Steve ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca From sunder at sunder.net Sun Feb 2 19:48:47 2003 From: sunder at sunder.net (Sunder) Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 22:48:47 -0500 (est) Subject: "Touching shuttle debris may cause bad spirits to invade your body!" In-Reply-To: <037f01c2cb25$94f04d00$01c8a8c0@davehowe> Message-ID: Think upgrading of circuit boards. Remove old board, insert new board for example. Leaving the old board circling around may not be a good thing. Just for example. ----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--------------------------- + ^ + :NSA got $20Bil/year |Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\ \|/ :and didn't stop 9-11|share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\ <--*-->:Instead of rewarding|monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/ /|\ :their failures, we |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/ + v + :should get refunds! |site, and you must change them very often. --------_sunder_ at _sunder_._net_------- http://www.sunder.net ------------ On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Dave Howe wrote: > Sunder wrote: > > Let's see, we're going into war with Iraq, and we're sending up the > > shuttle to do experiments on how furry weavols behave under zero > > gravity... uh huh. > Lothe though I am to shed doubt on your consipiracy theories - but the > shuttle was on its way *down*. Why would they be bringing sooper Sekrit spy > satellites back? From tcmay at got.net Sun Feb 2 23:15:19 2003 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 23:15:19 -0800 Subject: Say goodbye to the ISS In-Reply-To: <20030203163633.A11976@optushome.com.au> Message-ID: <404B49A9-3747-11D7-9DBF-0050E439C473@got.net> On Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 09:36 PM, Ralph Seberry wrote: > On Sunday, 02 Feb 2003 at 20:57, Tim May wrote: >> (I am replying to the CP list, but suppressing the name of the poster. >> He/she sent his/her comments to a "recipient list suppressed" private >> distribution. If people send me comments, don't expect to me to just >> take them in silence. I will, however, suppress the author unless and >> until too many such private distributions occur.) > > Steve Schear sent the email to cypherpunks at lne.com > without any attempt to disguise the sender. The full headers below are how I received the message: From hseaver at cybershamanix.com Sun Feb 2 21:19:23 2003 From: hseaver at cybershamanix.com (Harmon Seaver) Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 23:19:23 -0600 Subject: Say goodbye to the ISS In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030202200948.046d5fb8@mail.attbi.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030202200948.046d5fb8@mail.attbi.com> Message-ID: <20030203051923.GA28717@cybershamanix.com> On Sun, Feb 02, 2003 at 08:27:06PM -0800, Steve Schear wrote: > I can't imagine that it would be so difficult to construct a small, > remotely-controlled, gyro stabilized, tethered probe that would be carried > on all shuttle missions and could be deployed from the cargo bay to closely > inspect the exterior of the craft for possible damage. Even if the shuttle > could not be immediately repaired, it could be somehow moored at some part > of the station and left there till a repair mission could be effected or > perhaps sacrificed by a controlled burn re-entry over an unpopulated area > of the earth as some satellites have already ended their days. In any case > astronauts would then not need to "live-test" a possibly damaged shuttle as > those on Columbia did Saturday. If they had thought there was damage, couldn't they have just done a tethered space walk to look at it? I thought space walks were a normal practice on both the shuttle and ISS. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com From tcmay at got.net Sun Feb 2 23:53:48 2003 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 23:53:48 -0800 Subject: "Touching shuttle debris may cause bad spirits to invade your body!" In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030203015819.00a79b90@pop.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: On Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 11:07 PM, John Kelsey wrote: >> A real journalist would just roll his eyes and say "Look, folks, NASA >> wants these pieces to be aid in reconstructing the accident. There >> are no traces of liquid propellants and deadly chemicals on these >> pieces. And they certainly didn't stay hot for long. NASA is trying >> to get us to feed you jive so you'll be properly frightened and won't >> touch them.?" > > I recall a guy on NPR saying something like this, a bit more politely. > Something like "The pieces surely aren't going to be dangerous, but > moving them is going to mess up the investigation of the crash." > Which presumably is what everyone with any technical background and > common sense was thinking when they heard the original warning, right? The last laugh may be from the lawsuits. Yahoo reports "hundreds" of people reporting sickness, blah blah, from contact with the debris. Almost certainly all either bullshit or sympathetic magic, but the obvious result of the news outlets widely reporting "the space debris may make you very sick!" Some fraction actually think they are sick, some fraction hope to share in a possible payout of billions by a backed-into-a-corner space agency, and some very, very tiny fraction may have actually touched some component which made them slightly ill. Dumb fucks, all. --Tim May "The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not a sufficient warrant." --John Stuart Mill From wolf at priori.net Mon Feb 3 00:48:37 2003 From: wolf at priori.net (Meyer Wolfsheim) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 00:48:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: Shuttle Humor In-Reply-To: <200302012210.h11MAiH12054@artifact.psychedelic.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Feb 2003, Eric Cordian wrote: > The look on your fellow astronauts' > faces right before the grenade you are > holding explodes -- PRICELESS Please. If we're going to toss around conspiracy theories, let's make sure they are sane. I am having a hard time imagining a scenario in which it would benefit the Israeli cause to blow up their first astronaut in space. Perhaps if it could be made to appear as a terroristic act by the evil ragheads, maybe Israel would attempt a stunt like this, to further the American/Israeli "brothers in arms" mentality. But there appears to be no such scenario that is remotely plausible. The only theory that I find remotely worth pursuing is that the shuttle was bringing something back to earth that didn't want to come down. Tim seems to have thoughts about this -- how easily could a satellite be designed with a "self-destruct upon reentering Earth's atmosphere" device? The motivation would certainly be there. I can't see China perpetrating a "terrorist act" against the US at this point in time, but I could see China taking steps to prevent the successful theft of its military surveillance devices. This isn't to say that force majeure isn't the most likely culprit here. Space travel is inherently dangerous, and I'm honestly surprised that less than 2% of our shuttle flights have resulted in catastrophe. -MW- From DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk Sun Feb 2 17:42:55 2003 From: DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk (Dave Howe) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 01:42:55 -0000 Subject: "Touching shuttle debris may cause bad spirits to invade your body!" References: Message-ID: <037f01c2cb25$94f04d00$01c8a8c0@davehowe> Sunder wrote: > Let's see, we're going into war with Iraq, and we're sending up the > shuttle to do experiments on how furry weavols behave under zero > gravity... uh huh. Lothe though I am to shed doubt on your consipiracy theories - but the shuttle was on its way *down*. Why would they be bringing sooper Sekrit spy satellites back? From kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com Sun Feb 2 23:07:20 2003 From: kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com (John Kelsey) Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 02:07:20 -0500 Subject: "Touching shuttle debris may cause bad spirits to invade your body!" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030203015819.00a79b90@pop.ix.netcom.com> At 10:19 AM 2/2/03 -0800, Tim May wrote: ... >Speaking of journalists, why does Wolf Blitzer repeat this obvious lie >about the metal bits and pieces being tainted by evil spirits? Because >these so-called journalists are stooges for the state. Well, the bit about "18 times the speed of light," and other mistakes I've seen through the years, make me suspect that Wolf and company simply don't have the technical background and built-in BS detectors necessary to catch things like this. (For some reason I've never been able to fathom, many journalists seem to be remarkably gullable, when they're told something from the right kind of source, especially a government agency or other official source.) >A real journalist would just roll his eyes and say "Look, folks, NASA >wants these pieces to be aid in reconstructing the accident. There are no >traces of liquid propellants and deadly chemicals on these pieces. And >they certainly didn't stay hot for long. NASA is trying to get us to feed >you jive so you'll be properly frightened and won't touch them.?" I recall a guy on NPR saying something like this, a bit more politely. Something like "The pieces surely aren't going to be dangerous, but moving them is going to mess up the investigation of the crash." Which presumably is what everyone with any technical background and common sense was thinking when they heard the original warning, right? >--Tim May, Occupied America John Kelsey, kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com From theforce at aecworkforce.com Sun Feb 2 23:23:49 2003 From: theforce at aecworkforce.com (AECWorkForce Employer News) Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 02:23:49 -0500 Subject: AECWorkForce Employer News (February 3, 2003) Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 27879 bytes Desc: not available URL: From hseaver at cybershamanix.com Mon Feb 3 06:27:31 2003 From: hseaver at cybershamanix.com (Harmon Seaver) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 08:27:31 -0600 Subject: Carter's statement yesterday In-Reply-To: <3E3E70E8.6000501@desai.net> References: <20030201191255.GA19174@cybershamanix.com> <3E3E70E8.6000501@desai.net> Message-ID: <20030203142731.GB28839@cybershamanix.com> On Mon, Feb 03, 2003 at 08:38:48AM -0500, Alkesh M. Desai wrote: > http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&q=carter > > http://news.google.com/news?q=cluster:www.news24.com/News24/World/Iraque/0,6119,2-10-1460_1314911,00.html > > http://www.news24.com/News24/World/Iraque/0,6119,2-10-1460_1314911,00.html > > http://www.gulf-news.com/Articles/news.asp?ArticleID=75983 > > http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/01/31/sprj.irq.carter/ > > http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/news/0203/01bushblair.html > > http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=politicsNews&storyID=2150905 > > http://www.11alive.com/news/news_article.asp?storyid=27062 > Thanks, I found the full text at http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/news/0203/01carter.html I must have been trying too early before, all I could find was partial quotes. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com From adesai at desai.net Mon Feb 3 05:38:48 2003 From: adesai at desai.net (Alkesh M. Desai) Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 08:38:48 -0500 Subject: Carter's statement yesterday References: <20030201191255.GA19174@cybershamanix.com> Message-ID: <3E3E70E8.6000501@desai.net> http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&q=carter http://news.google.com/news?q=cluster:www.news24.com/News24/World/Iraque/0,6119,2-10-1460_1314911,00.html http://www.news24.com/News24/World/Iraque/0,6119,2-10-1460_1314911,00.html http://www.gulf-news.com/Articles/news.asp?ArticleID=75983 http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/01/31/sprj.irq.carter/ http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/news/0203/01bushblair.html http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=politicsNews&storyID=2150905 http://www.11alive.com/news/news_article.asp?storyid=27062 Harmon Seaver wrote: > Does anyone know where a copy of Jimmy Carter's statement yesterday can be > found? Tried a google and got a zillion hits. From the Washington Post's take, > it sounded quite interesting. Gee, Tim must be right, I must be a lefty if Jimmy > Carter is starting to sound good. 8-) And I've even decided that come the next > senate race in WI, I'm going to vote Dem for the first time in my life, at least > if Feingold is running. > > > -- > Harmon Seaver > CyberShamanix > http://www.cybershamanix.com -- -a. (c) Alkesh M. Desai, 2003. adesai at desai.net From tcmay at got.net Mon Feb 3 09:09:05 2003 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 09:09:05 -0800 Subject: Self-destruct in SZ-4? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <33081B8E-379A-11D7-9DBF-0050E439C473@got.net> On Monday, February 3, 2003, at 12:48 AM, Meyer Wolfsheim wrote: > The only theory that I find remotely worth pursuing is that the shuttle > was bringing something back to earth that didn't want to come down. Tim > seems to have thoughts about this -- how easily could a satellite be > designed with a "self-destruct upon reentering Earth's atmosphere" > device? > First, don't think "atmosphere" qua atmosphere, as the satellite was likely under vacuum most of the way down. Second, I would do the self-destruct with accelerometers: if several accelerations are felt, detonate. --Tim May "They played all kinds of games, kept the House in session all night, and it was a very complicated bill. Maybe a handful of staffers actually read it, but the bill definitely was not available to members before the vote." --Rep. Ron Paul, TX, on how few Congresscritters saw the USA-PATRIOT Bill before voting overwhelmingly to impose a police state From camera_lumina at hotmail.com Mon Feb 3 06:31:35 2003 From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden) Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 09:31:35 -0500 Subject: Gullible Journalists Message-ID: John Kelsey wrote... "For some reason I've never been able to fathom, many journalists seem to be remarkably gullable, when they're told something from the right kind of source, especially a government agency or other official source." Chomsky (dig around on http://www.zmag.org/weluser.htm) and others have commented on this quite a bit. What it seems to boil down to is a sort of natural selection. Basically, it works like this: 1) Government is releasing some cool smart-bomb commercials, erh I mean video to a few select news sources. 2) NBC sends a questioning, smart, well-informed dude to said press conference. 3) During said smart-bomb footage notices the Arabic word for Hospital on the top of the smart-bombs target, and asks "Is that a hospital?" 4) Government takes NBC off list of cool "insider" info: "Can't be trusted, not playing ball" 5) NBC, now out in the cold, assigns said informed journalist to covering Ruwanda or other low-profile stuff, and assures military officials that they'll send someone a little more cooperative next time. I'm exagerating for effect here of course...there's possibly not as much conscious decision making, and supposedly this kind of list-making happens for much quieter, "insider" stuff (not smart bomb footage). But clearly, there's got to be SOMETHING like this happening. -TD _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From wolf at priori.net Mon Feb 3 09:38:42 2003 From: wolf at priori.net (Meyer Wolfsheim) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 09:38:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: "Touching shuttle debris may cause bad spirits to invade your body!" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Thomas Shaddack wrote: > > ...and some very, very tiny fraction may have actually touched > > some component which made them slightly ill. > > Tf they ingested a part made of beryllium alloy, it could make them pretty > sick... Gee golly! I'm so glad that CNN told me that the space shuttle confetti was bad for me, or I would have gnawed on that chunk of metal in my front yard! Honestly. From hseaver at cybershamanix.com Mon Feb 3 07:39:51 2003 From: hseaver at cybershamanix.com (Harmon Seaver) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 09:39:51 -0600 Subject: Gullible Journalists In-Reply-To: <20030203101316.B10689@cluebot.com> References: <20030203101316.B10689@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <20030203153951.GA29520@cybershamanix.com> test On Mon, Feb 03, 2003 at 10:13:16AM -0500, Declan McCullagh wrote: > On Mon, Feb 03, 2003 at 09:31:35AM -0500, Tyler Durden wrote: > > I'm exagerating for effect here of course...there's possibly not as much > > conscious decision making, and supposedly this kind of list-making happens > > for much quieter, "insider" stuff (not smart bomb footage). But clearly, > > there's got to be SOMETHING like this happening. > > You're not very far off the mark. Be too critical and lose your sources. > Happens at the White House and every federal agency, and is one of the > tragedies of modern political journalism. I've written about this before > in the context of the Justice Department antitrust suit. > > "Washington Babylon" is a good book that hits on this topic, I recall. > > -Declan -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com From tcmay at got.net Mon Feb 3 09:43:02 2003 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 09:43:02 -0800 Subject: "Touching shuttle debris may cause bad spirits to invade your body!" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Monday, February 3, 2003, at 09:18 AM, Thomas Shaddack wrote: >> ...and some very, very tiny fraction may have actually touched >> some component which made them slightly ill. > > Tf they ingested a part made of beryllium alloy, it could make them > pretty > sick... > First, if they are eating shuttle debris, think of it as evolution in action. Second, beryllium is not much used in the mostly-aluminum shuttle. Web sites say some of the brake assemblies use beryllium and its alloys. Third, it would take longer for someone who ate a shuttle part to feel sick, due to Be or any other metal poisoning, than we saw on Saturday. I vote for the "sympathetic magic" theory. (As it happens, one of my first engineering assignments, in 1974, was working on a BeO alternative to Al2O3/alumina for packages. Berylliosis was a concern for the _manufacturing_ of the packages from pressed powder, but touching or licking or whatever the finished packages was not an issue.) --Tim May From emc at artifact.psychedelic.net Mon Feb 3 09:45:38 2003 From: emc at artifact.psychedelic.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 09:45:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: Shuttle Humor In-Reply-To: from "Meyer Wolfsheim" at Feb 03, 2003 12:48:37 AM Message-ID: <200302031745.h13Hjcp15952@artifact.psychedelic.net> Meyer Wolfsheim writes: > On Sat, 1 Feb 2003, Eric Cordian wrote: > > The look on your fellow astronauts' > > faces right before the grenade you are > > holding explodes -- PRICELESS > Please. If we're going to toss around conspiracy theories, let's make sure > they are sane. I am having a hard time imagining a scenario in which it > would benefit the Israeli cause to blow up their first astronaut in space. > Perhaps if it could be made to appear as a terroristic act by the evil > ragheads, maybe Israel would attempt a stunt like this, to further the > American/Israeli "brothers in arms" mentality. But there appears to be no > such scenario that is remotely plausible. You are overanalyzing. It was parody. No one blew anything up. There was a burn through on the left wing. We now return you to your regular programming. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From msarela at cc.hut.fi Mon Feb 3 00:11:15 2003 From: msarela at cc.hut.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mikko_S=E4rel=E4?=) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 10:11:15 +0200 (EET) Subject: "Touching shuttle debris may cause bad spirits to invade your body!" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Feb 2003, Sunder wrote: > Far more than likely, the truth is closer that the Space Shuttles have > been performing ultra sensitive spy work - launching new spy satelites, or > repairing them, and may have pieces of spy satelites on them. > > Let's see, we're going into war with Iraq, and we're sending up the > shuttle to do experiments on how furry weavols behave under zero > gravity... uh huh. Now why would they have spy satellites on board still when they are coming _down_? One might think that if such things were part of the mission they'd leave them up to spy, rather than bring them back down. -- Mikko "One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all And in the Darkness bind them." From declan at well.com Mon Feb 3 07:13:16 2003 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 10:13:16 -0500 Subject: Gullible Journalists In-Reply-To: ; from camera_lumina@hotmail.com on Mon, Feb 03, 2003 at 09:31:35AM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20030203101316.B10689@cluebot.com> On Mon, Feb 03, 2003 at 09:31:35AM -0500, Tyler Durden wrote: > I'm exagerating for effect here of course...there's possibly not as much > conscious decision making, and supposedly this kind of list-making happens > for much quieter, "insider" stuff (not smart bomb footage). But clearly, > there's got to be SOMETHING like this happening. You're not very far off the mark. Be too critical and lose your sources. Happens at the White House and every federal agency, and is one of the tragedies of modern political journalism. I've written about this before in the context of the Justice Department antitrust suit. "Washington Babylon" is a good book that hits on this topic, I recall. -Declan From hseaver at cybershamanix.com Mon Feb 3 08:19:04 2003 From: hseaver at cybershamanix.com (Harmon Seaver) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 10:19:04 -0600 Subject: mail weirdness Message-ID: <20030203161904.GA29570@cybershamanix.com> Looking at this more, I think it's two separate problems. I don't get the "recipient list suppressed" or whatever it is from Declan's posts, it just appears that something is wrong with the header, and it's probably something minder.net is doing and I haven't done a group reply to anyone else posting thru minder.net. But with Steve's, I get the same thing Tim got. What list is Steve posting thru? -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com From hseaver at cybershamanix.com Mon Feb 3 08:22:34 2003 From: hseaver at cybershamanix.com (Harmon Seaver) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 10:22:34 -0600 Subject: checking weirdness Message-ID: <20030203162234.GA29604@cybershamanix.com> So what do we get here -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com From DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk Mon Feb 3 02:56:38 2003 From: DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk (David Howe) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 10:56:38 -0000 Subject: "Touching shuttle debris may cause bad spirits to invade your body!" References: Message-ID: <005e01c2cb73$012b7ce0$c71121c2@sharpuk.co.uk> at Monday, February 03, 2003 3:48 AM, Sunder was seen to say: > Think upgrading of circuit boards. Remove old board, insert new > board for example. Leaving the old board circling around may not be > a good thing. Just for example. Yeah, makes sense. ok, I withdraw my objections to the conspiracy theory :) From mv at cdc.gov Mon Feb 3 11:43:34 2003 From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret)) Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 11:43:34 -0800 Subject: Self-destruct in SZ-4? Message-ID: <3E3EC666.FF8CD58F@cdc.gov> At 09:09 AM 2/3/03 -0800, Tim May wrote: >Second, I would do the self-destruct with accelerometers: if several >accelerations are felt, detonate. 1. Modern munitions arm this way. If you are an artillery shell and you've been told to arm, and then felt 10s of Gs along one axis and a lot of rotation around that axis, you've probably been fired and can 'safely' explode when you hit something. 2. Why arm a satellite to do this is clear: During launch the rocket could screw up and dump your Top Sekrit satellite into the drink where Mr. Not-so-Friendly Submarine picks it up. It doesn't even violate a treaty if you can't use the satellite offensively (no glide next to a target satellite and go boom). And everyone puts a self-destruct charge in the launch vehicle anyway. Stressful jobs, RSO. From mv at cdc.gov Mon Feb 3 11:47:59 2003 From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret)) Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 11:47:59 -0800 Subject: "Touching shuttle debris may cause bad spirits Message-ID: <3E3EC76F.BFA232F@cdc.gov> At 06:18 PM 2/3/03 +0100, Thomas Shaddack wrote: >> ...and some very, very tiny fraction may have actually touched >> some component which made them slightly ill. > >Tf they ingested a part made of beryllium alloy, it could make them pretty >sick... Yeah, first thing some people will do with space debris on their lawn is eat it. (Well, *some* will, but that's how evolution works..) Berylliosis is mostly from *inhaled* Be dust. You can touch the metal. ----- Smell that, son? Nothing else in the world smells like that.... I love the smell of hydrazine in the morning.... It smells like incompetence. From eresrch at eskimo.com Mon Feb 3 11:52:27 2003 From: eresrch at eskimo.com (Mike Rosing) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 11:52:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: checking weirdness In-Reply-To: <20030203162234.GA29604@cybershamanix.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Harmon Seaver wrote: > So what do we get here > > -- > Harmon Seaver > CyberShamanix > http://www.cybershamanix.com > > From eresrch at eskimo.com Mon Feb 3 12:06:02 2003 From: eresrch at eskimo.com (Mike Rosing) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 12:06:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: Shuttle Humor, Risk Estimation In-Reply-To: <3E3EB3EC.DE0B7FD7@cdc.gov> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Major Variola (ret) wrote: > I heard that at the beginning of the program, NASA estimated 1 bang > in about 75 flights. The Palestine meteor shower was flight > 130-something > and was bang #2. Not to mention that it's 10 years past retirement. Not too bad, but not so good compared to an airplane. > ... > BTW, two birds with one stone: Israeli & Indian. > > Has anyone run their psychosocial simulators on what happens when Osama > claims responsibility? Would he try this? What numbers do you get for > the US pop's reaction? It's easier to just say Allah is on his side and this is proof :-) Most people recognize accidents, and the connection between takeoff and missing tiles is too obvious to dismiss as *the* primary cause. Whether it's true or not remains to be seen. > [SCITECHCOMM] There is a former NASA engineer on one of the tube > stations trying > to explain tech, but he is doing a poor job and unfortunately > reinforcing > a certain notion of engineers as monotone speakers incapable of > relating tech to common experiences. He picked at a tile with his > fingernail on camera, which is good, but Feynman he is not. I only saw him once. He looked like Dilbert, so he'll be exactly what every one expects. Let's face it, TV is about stereotypes, and he fits the bill. Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike From eresrch at eskimo.com Mon Feb 3 12:07:54 2003 From: eresrch at eskimo.com (Mike Rosing) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 12:07:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: James Watson: Everyone should be DNA-fingerprinted In-Reply-To: <3E3EB532.57C35519@cdc.gov> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Major Variola (ret) wrote: > ----- > JW is too old and needs to be lysed. How about lsd'd? Then he won't know the difference between "real" and his head :-) Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike From hseaver at cybershamanix.com Mon Feb 3 11:41:19 2003 From: hseaver at cybershamanix.com (Harmon Seaver) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 13:41:19 -0600 Subject: mail weirdness In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030203102127.02e1c690@idiom.com> References: <20030203161904.GA29570@cybershamanix.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030203102127.02e1c690@idiom.com> Message-ID: <20030203194119.GA29733@cybershamanix.com> On Mon, Feb 03, 2003 at 10:23:58AM -0800, Bill Stewart wrote: > At 10:19 AM 02/03/2003 -0600, Harmon Seaver wrote: > > Looking at this more, I think it's two separate problems. I don't get the > >"recipient list suppressed" or whatever it is from Declan's posts, it just > >appears that something is wrong with the header, and it's probably > >something > >minder.net is doing and I haven't done a group reply to anyone else > >posting thru > >minder.net. But with Steve's, I get the same thing Tim got. What list is > >Steve > >posting thru? > > Do you mean that Steve's posts always do this to you? > I've only seen one like that, and I assumed that Steve had simply > Bcc:d the Cypherpunks list and some other lists on that posting. I've seen a number of posts from Steve that have the "list suppressed" but I don't think it was always that way, maybe the last few months? And not sure if they all do it or not. > > Declan's recent mail has been sent to cypherpunks at lne.com, > so it's possible that if you're reading it on minder.net, > there's something in there that looks weird to you. > But it all looks normal here. Nope, I'm subbed to lne.com. Did you try doing a group reply on Declan's? And if he isn't on minder.net, that's even weirder. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com From ericm at lne.com Mon Feb 3 16:28:10 2003 From: ericm at lne.com (Eric Murray) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:28:10 -0800 Subject: Shuttle Humor, Risk Estimation In-Reply-To: <20030203230141.GC29837@cybershamanix.com>; from hseaver@cybershamanix.com on Mon, Feb 03, 2003 at 05:01:41PM -0600 References: <3E3EB3EC.DE0B7FD7@cdc.gov> <20030203230141.GC29837@cybershamanix.com> Message-ID: <20030203162810.A29285@slack.lne.com> On Mon, Feb 03, 2003 at 05:01:41PM -0600, Harmon Seaver wrote: > The biggest question there is why didn't they inspect it? Seems very > bizarre, since that's what they did in the past. All the KH-71s were busy mapping Iraq's oil fields and photographing Saddam's nose hairs. Eric From hseaver at cybershamanix.com Mon Feb 3 14:36:33 2003 From: hseaver at cybershamanix.com (Harmon Seaver) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:36:33 -0600 Subject: checking weirdness In-Reply-To: References: <20030203162234.GA29604@cybershamanix.com> Message-ID: <20030203223633.GA29837@cybershamanix.com> Huh, so you're subbed to minder.net? And there's never been any problem with group replies to your posts. So that blows that theory. On Mon, Feb 03, 2003 at 11:52:27AM -0800, Mike Rosing wrote: > On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Harmon Seaver wrote: > > > So what do we get here > > > > -- > > Harmon Seaver > > CyberShamanix > > http://www.cybershamanix.com -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com From kvanhorn at ksvanhorn.com Mon Feb 3 15:30:45 2003 From: kvanhorn at ksvanhorn.com (Kevin S. Van Horn) Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 17:30:45 -0600 Subject: Gullible Journalists References: Message-ID: <3E3EFBA5.3000108@ksvanhorn.com> Tyler Durden wrote: > "For some reason I've never been able to fathom, many journalists seem > to be remarkably gullable, when they're told something from the right > kind of source, especially a government agency or other official source." > > Chomsky (dig around on http://www.zmag.org/weluser.htm) and others > have commented on this quite a bit. If you want to hear it from the horse's mouth, I suggest you read some of Vin Suprynowicz's columns, or his book, _Send In The Waco Killers_. He's been a working journalist for decades, and so can describe first-hand how this process of co-opting journalists works. From shaddack at ns.arachne.cz Mon Feb 3 09:18:10 2003 From: shaddack at ns.arachne.cz (Thomas Shaddack) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:18:10 +0100 (CET) Subject: "Touching shuttle debris may cause bad spirits to invade your body!" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > ...and some very, very tiny fraction may have actually touched > some component which made them slightly ill. Tf they ingested a part made of beryllium alloy, it could make them pretty sick... From tcmay at got.net Mon Feb 3 18:21:58 2003 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:21:58 -0800 Subject: Shuttle Humor, Risk Estimation In-Reply-To: <20030203230141.GC29837@cybershamanix.com> Message-ID: <6FB9E53B-37E7-11D7-9DBF-0050E439C473@got.net> On Monday, February 3, 2003, at 03:01 PM, Harmon Seaver wrote: > > The biggest question there is why didn't they inspect it? Seems > very > bizarre, since that's what they did in the past. That's what they _reported_ later that they did in the past...there certainly was no public announcement that Keyhole satellites were being tasked to look at the shuttle tiles. One might assume that they did in fact look at the tiles this time around, noted the damage, reported to Admiral Poindexter the "toast" conclusion, and that was that. Had the landing gone OK, we would have been hearing about how NASA had verified that little damage had occurred. Now, it's "we didn't have a chance to look, but even if we had, there was nothing anyone could do, so we didn't look." (Of course, there is _much_ they could have done, including coming in at a more westerly landing site, either Edwards or White Sands. Or, with about 10 days of advance notice, Atlantis could have been ready for launch and rendezvous to take the crew off, and perhaps even to transfer fuel to let Columbia go into a higher parking orbit until repairs could be arranged.) But the ostrich was strutting and now NASA is dying. --Tim May "Dogs can't conceive of a group of cats without an alpha cat." --David Honig, on the Cypherpunks list, 2001-11 From schear at attbi.com Mon Feb 3 18:23:00 2003 From: schear at attbi.com (Steve Schear) Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 18:23:00 -0800 Subject: Placing Backdoors Through Firewalls Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030203182223.046c0790@mail.attbi.com> http://www.thehackerschoice.com/papers/fw-backd.htm "Reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard P. Feynman From sfurlong at acmenet.net Mon Feb 3 15:31:03 2003 From: sfurlong at acmenet.net (Steve Furlong) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:31:03 -0500 Subject: Passenger rail is for adventurers and bums In-Reply-To: <15ECBA49-3543-11D7-9DBF-0050E439C473@got.net> References: <15ECBA49-3543-11D7-9DBF-0050E439C473@got.net> Message-ID: <200302031831.03861.sfurlong@acmenet.net> On Friday 31 January 2003 12:40, Tim May wrote: > On Friday, January 31, 2003, at 07:58 AM, Harmon Seaver wrote: (snipped) > I understand your politics is lefty...this has been shining through > for years. > > But your analytical skills are lacking. That's redundant in the modern US. Too bad; there needs to be a counterbalance to the right-wing control freaks, but the left just isn't up to it. -- Steve Furlong Computer Condottiere Have GNU, Will Travel You don't expect governments to obey the law because of some higher moral development. You expect them to obey the law because they know that if they don't, those who aren't shot will be hanged. --Michael Shirley From eresrch at eskimo.com Mon Feb 3 18:40:57 2003 From: eresrch at eskimo.com (Mike Rosing) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:40:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: Shuttle Humor, Risk Estimation In-Reply-To: <20030204004809.GA30148@cybershamanix.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Harmon Seaver wrote: > Yeah, but most pilots, if they suspected an even semi-serious breach of their > craft's integrity, *AND* had the ability to fairly safely send someone outside > to have a looksee, wouldn't hesitate a moment before doing so. They've been > delayed by weather in landing far longer than that would take. I heard this afternoon on NPR that NASA reported one of the engines was on full blast attempting to correct for high drag on the left side. Add this to the high wheel temp before sensor loss - the landing gear was down. The Columbia had just gotten the new "glass cockpit", all new computers. I bet there was a bug in the code someplace that lowered the landing gear and didn't report it via normal channels. On an airplane lowering your landing gear early isn't that big a deal. But at mach 18 it's pretty serious. No way to inspect for that when your instruments don't report what your equipment is doing. I bet it's a combination of minor problems, with a bit in a rom going bad maybe. As the Major said, chalk one up for Allah. Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike From hseaver at cybershamanix.com Mon Feb 3 16:48:09 2003 From: hseaver at cybershamanix.com (Harmon Seaver) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:48:09 -0600 Subject: Shuttle Humor, Risk Estimation In-Reply-To: <20030203162810.A29285@slack.lne.com> References: <3E3EB3EC.DE0B7FD7@cdc.gov> <20030203230141.GC29837@cybershamanix.com> <20030203162810.A29285@slack.lne.com> Message-ID: <20030204004809.GA30148@cybershamanix.com> On Mon, Feb 03, 2003 at 04:28:10PM -0800, Eric Murray wrote: > On Mon, Feb 03, 2003 at 05:01:41PM -0600, Harmon Seaver wrote: > > > The biggest question there is why didn't they inspect it? Seems very > > bizarre, since that's what they did in the past. > > All the KH-71s were busy mapping Iraq's oil fields > and photographing Saddam's nose hairs. Yeah, but most pilots, if they suspected an even semi-serious breach of their craft's integrity, *AND* had the ability to fairly safely send someone outside to have a looksee, wouldn't hesitate a moment before doing so. They've been delayed by weather in landing far longer than that would take. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com From mv at cdc.gov Mon Feb 3 19:53:50 2003 From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret)) Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 19:53:50 -0800 Subject: Shuttle Humor, Risk Estimation Message-ID: <3E3F394D.D366663B@cdc.gov> At 06:21 PM 2/3/03 -0800, Tim May wrote: > >Had the landing gone OK, we would have been hearing about how NASA had >verified that little damage had occurred. > >Now, it's "we didn't have a chance to look, but even if we had, there >was nothing anyone could do, so we didn't look." One wonders whether various large-aperature terrestrial 'scopes could have / did any surveillance / inspection. (However, I don't even know which side of the bird normally faces Earth ---black side or cargo side.) NASA's inability to change a flat on a roadtrip is really remarkable. From arma at mit.edu Mon Feb 3 17:01:01 2003 From: arma at mit.edu (Roger Dingledine) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:01:01 -0500 Subject: [freehaven-dev] CFP: Workshop on Economics of P2P Systems Message-ID: [Please forward this to any other appropriate lists. -RD] Workshop on Economics of Peer-to-Peer Systems Berkeley, California June 5-6 2003 http://www.sims.berkeley.edu/p2pecon From file-sharing to distributed computation, from application layer overlays to mobile ad hoc networking, the ultimate success of a peer-to-peer system rests on the twin pillars of scalable and robust system design and alignment of economic interests among the participating peers. The Workshop on Economics of Peer-to-Peer Systems will bring together for the first time researchers and practitioners from multiple disciplines to discuss the economic characteristics of P2P systems, application of economic theories to P2P system design, and future directions and challenges in this area. Topics of interest include, but are not limited to: - incentives and disincentives for cooperation - distributed algorithmic mechanism design - reputation and trust - reliability, identity, and attack resistance - network externalities and scale economies - public goods and club formation - accounting and settlement mechanisms - payment and currency systems - user behavior and system performance - measurement studies - leveraging heterogeneity without compromising anonymity - economic impact to network providers - interconnection of P2P networks The program of the workshop will be a combination of invited talks, paper presentations, and discussion. Workshop attendance will be limited to ensure a productive environment. Each potential participant should submit a position paper that expresses a novel or interesting problem, offers a specific solution, reports on actual experience, or advances a research agenda. Participants will be invited based on the originality, technical merit and topical relevance of their submissions, as well as the likelihood that the ideas expressed in their submissions will lead to insightful discussions at the workshop. Accepted papers will be published on the workshop website. Submission guidelines: Submissions of position papers are due March 27, 2003, and should not exceed 5 pages. Two column papers are acceptable, but the font size should be no smaller than 11pt. Papers must be submitted electronically in postscript or PDF format to . Important Dates : Submission due: March 27 Notification of acceptance: April 25 Revised version due: May 22 Workshop: June 5-6 Program Committee: John Chuang, UC Berkeley (chair) Roger Dingledine, The Free Haven Project Ian Foster, University of Chicago and Argonne National Lab Bernardo Huberman, HP Labs Ramayya Krishnan, CMU (co-chair) H.T. Kung, Harvard University David Parkes, Harvard University Paul Resnick, University of Michigan Scott Shenker, ICSI Michael D. Smith, CMU Hal Varian, UC Berkeley ----- End forwarded message ----- From camera_lumina at hotmail.com Mon Feb 3 17:05:30 2003 From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden) Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 20:05:30 -0500 Subject: Passenger rail is for adventurers and bums Message-ID: "That's redundant in the modern US. Too bad; there needs to be a counterbalance to the right-wing control freaks, but the left just isn't up to it." Good comment. Indeed, the only thing the Democrats seem to stand for is that they aren't republicans. Meanwhile, the economics of the 'real' left leaves them with a big fat credibility hole right in the center, so no one listens to their politics either. -TD >From: Steve Furlong >To: cypherpunks at lne.com >Subject: Re: Passenger rail is for adventurers and bums >Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:31:03 -0500 > >On Friday 31 January 2003 12:40, Tim May wrote: > > On Friday, January 31, 2003, at 07:58 AM, Harmon Seaver wrote: >(snipped) > > > I understand your politics is lefty...this has been shining through > > for years. > > > > But your analytical skills are lacking. > >That's redundant in the modern US. Too bad; there needs to be a >counterbalance to the right-wing control freaks, but the left just >isn't up to it. > >-- >Steve Furlong Computer Condottiere Have GNU, Will Travel > >You don't expect governments to obey the law because of some higher >moral development. You expect them to obey the law because they know >that if they don't, those who aren't shot will be hanged. > --Michael Shirley _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From k.brown at ccs.bbk.ac.uk Mon Feb 3 12:07:52 2003 From: k.brown at ccs.bbk.ac.uk (Ken Brown) Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 20:07:52 +0000 Subject: Life Sentence for Medical Marijuana? References: Message-ID: <3E3ECC18.4190535C@ccs.bbk.ac.uk> Tyler Durden wrote: > And then there's the PERSISTENT rumors of him actually taking an accidental > DEA bust in a Florida airport after landing a fresh new cargo. Supposedly > this was a bit of a snafu and they had to let him go on the hush-hush...(And > I keep hearing there's video of that bust.) Oh, PERSISTENT rumours eh? So they must be true. The TRANSIENT sort are just a pack of lies. From tcmay at got.net Mon Feb 3 20:16:05 2003 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:16:05 -0800 Subject: The Statism Meme Message-ID: <6118EDD2-37F7-11D7-9DBF-0050E439C473@got.net> OK, so I watch a lot of t.v., or at least have t.v. dramas on a lot. I'm struck by how many of them this year treat civil liberties as gone, either as old-fashioned or as just plain ignorable. * On the episodes of "Law and Order" (three different versions weekly, often repeated on other nights), the cops routinely roust citizens, shop owners, hotel clerks, etc. Warrants are the exception, and when they are produced, they are merely waved in front of the targets. Whether this represents reality is not the point--the point is that the Fourth, Fifth, and Sixth Amendments are treated as technicalities to be violated at will. Cops, prosecutors, and judges violating the Constitution are not sanctioned. Those being violated never fight back, whether with shotguns or their own lawyers. * I just watched a new series called "Miracles." A planeload of passengers is held without charges, without arrest warrants. One passenger is simply taken away by the NSA because he may have information of use to them someday. Again, maybe not plausible, but this shows the meme Americans are becoming conditioned to accept. * On one often execrable show called "Judging Amy," "Child Protection" workers are shown bursting into homes and apartments, sans warrants of course. One memorable line was "Yes, we can enter your home without a warrant...because we're not the police." * Even t.v. commercials are spreading the meme that Big Brother is our friend. G.E. has one such commercial where doctors are told: "Wouldn't it be wonderful if you could just type in a name and see every medical treatment your patient has ever received?...with G.E.'s new software, you'll be able to." (paraphrase of their actual commercial) * "Hate speech" is presented on these cop and lawyer shows as being ipso facto illegal. "These people think the Constitution gives them the freedom to spew hate." * Nearly all of the programs present the Internet as a place which needs government control. The lawyers and cops editorialize (actually, the script writers, of course) about how the "Wild West" atmosphere is a haven for terrorists, gun nuts, pornographers, and Islamic militants. Various plots on the court shows have involved ISPs being forced to spy on customers. * "9/11 changed everything" is heard at least weekly. The judges cite it to justify unconstitutional measures, the prosecutors use it to justify warrantless searches and coerced admissions. Yes, I understand this is all fiction. Well, some of the scripts are based on actual events, including coerced confessions, warrantless searches, "sneak and peek" wiretaps, concentration camps in Cuba, etc. That so many of these popular programs have themes as I've described tells us what to expect. The statism meme is growing under hothouse conditions. --Tim May, Corralitos, California Quote of the Month: "It is said that there are no atheists in foxholes; perhaps there are no true libertarians in times of terrorist attacks." --Cathy Young, "Reason Magazine," both enemies of liberty. From k.brown at ccs.bbk.ac.uk Mon Feb 3 12:33:05 2003 From: k.brown at ccs.bbk.ac.uk (Ken Brown) Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 20:33:05 +0000 Subject: Passenger rail is for adventurers and bums References: Message-ID: <3E3ED201.5D389088@ccs.bbk.ac.uk> Steve Mynott wrote: > In the UK at least railway stations tend to have been built in the ugly > parts of towns for good reason -- simply because land is a lot cheaper in > the low rent parts of town. > > Also railways stations and the associated cheap hotels with a large > transient population tend to attract undesirables such as drug dealers, > muggers and hookers and the sort of thing which pushs the value of your > house down and nice middle class people don't want on their doorstep. > > The people in richer areas tend to have more political clout and more > effectively oppose development of this sort. Actually, in most places in UK, the railways precede the development of the town. So the industry & cheap areas follow rail, rather than vice versa. What you say is often true about new road building though. Everyone wants big roads a couple of miles away - no-one wants them on their doorstep. That's how Labour took over London in the 1970s - the old Tory GLC committed political suicide by road-building. Roads do not make votes. Of course, what /should/ happen is that the people who need the roads pay the people whose towns they go through... From rah at shipwright.com Mon Feb 3 18:17:12 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:17:12 -0500 Subject: Say goodbye to the ISS In-Reply-To: <007c01c2c003$b38d1e00$0500a8c0@innerfrontiers.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030202200948.046d5fb8@mail.attbi.com> <007c01c2c003$b38d1e00$0500a8c0@innerfrontiers.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 9:42 PM +0000 on 1/19/03, Malcolm Carlock wrote: > I must admit it also seems very strange that the shuttle couldn't > have been examined while docked to the ISS. It wasn't docked there. It was in a completely different orbit, and higher up to boot. That's why it came over the Western United States on landing, instead of over, I believe, places like Cancun and the Gulf of Mexico. It's also why people were saying they would have been SOL no matter what happened, and why, if you're conspiracy- -- and bloody- -- minded, it's easy to imagine that someone higher up in NASA figured that they were, "heh, cooked, anyway", and decided to stand back and see if a miracle happened. Of course, that probably didn't happen (invoking Pournelle's Law), and, besides, if they *were* that bloody-minded, they would have left it *up* there for an eventual repair and body-recovery mission, sometime in the future. [If you don't think they wouldn't have, "memorial" or not, remember that two people *died* in the Columbia already, in the wrong place, the cargo bay, at the wrong time, while they were pressurizing it with nitrogen during a mock-launch rehearsal before its inaugural launch.] Flying another shuttle to them while people were still alive would have been impossible, of course, so much for a reusable "space-truck" on a rapid turnaround, and, even if it wasn't, I don't think they even have an airlock aboard, and, given the cost of the gold-plated one on the ISS, they probably can't afford one on the ground, either. In other words, when you fly on Uncle's Nickle, you pays the tax payer's money, and you takes your chances. Of course, if we'd actually *privatized* space (not had a single-payer HillarySpace program, which is the case now, even though most of the shuttle program is currently "privatized" -- in the same way that the California power market is "privatized"), like back in the Nixon administration sometime, when he drew a red-line through NASA's budget the first time because it was leftover Kennedy-cruft that was embarrassing him politically, and made stuff like liquid rocket fuel legal to own (wasn't it someone here, or elsewhere, who said maybe we should sue to make very-high-powered rocketry a constitutional right under second amendment? :-)), among other things, there probably would have been *50* re-entries, or maybe 100, today -- and just that many launches. Today's crash, if it had happened at all, would have been lost in the radar clutter, to be completely brutal about it, and it would have been buried in the place where articles about 7 dead marines at Quantico -- or, more likely 7 dead skiers in the Bugaboos -- go. Oh, well. Maybe China will finally collapse already and some entrepreneur in New Shanghai establish a colony in the Belt someday. Too bad I'll be too old to learn Chinese when it happens. Cheers, RAH Who gave up on any illusions of there ever being an American private space industry in his lifetime -- or any career plans in that regard - -- shortly after the Challenger blew up and a bunch of government employees cancelled *all* manned space flight indefinitely. Same shit, different decade... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 8.0 - not licensed for commercial use: www.pgp.com iQA/AwUBPj8insPxH8jf3ohaEQLODACcDofKm9BtBVOQdGq/lCK9Topwt/YAoOdk NDdomx/bnf0ALLWNuJc13b0p =JY// -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Mon Feb 3 20:03:00 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:03:00 -0500 Subject: Shuttle Humor, Risk Estimation In-Reply-To: <6FB9E53B-37E7-11D7-9DBF-0050E439C473@got.net> References: <6FB9E53B-37E7-11D7-9DBF-0050E439C473@got.net> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 6:21 PM -0800 on 2/3/03, Tim May wrote: > Or, > with about 10 days of advance notice, Atlantis could have been > ready for launch and rendezvous to take the crew off, and perhaps > even to transfer fuel to let Columbia go into a higher parking > orbit until repairs could be arranged. Really? My understanding is that launches are planned so far in advance, and the events required to do so are so tightly coupled they wouldn't have had a chance even if they'd *had* that kind of running room. Just asking, not disputing, here. So, here we go, googling "atlantis rescue mission columbia" doesn't get any recent hits... Ah. Here's *one*, in news.google.com, of course : >> Q: Were there any rescue options available for the crew? >> >> A: Columbia had enough fuel and oxygen to stay in orbit several >> more days, perhaps a week or more with careful management. The >> shuttle Atlantis was being readied for a March 1 launch from Cape >> Canaveral, and could possibly have been ready for an emergency >> mission in a week or two. >> >> "If the problem had been detected at the beginning of the mission >> and you could get some extra life support up there earlier, they >> might have been able to wait it out," said MIT science and >> technology professor Ted Postol. "It would be difficult, but it >> doesn't sound impossible." >> >> Q: Could Columbia have sought refuge at the international space >> station? >> >> A: The shuttle didn't have a docking device to visit the station >> or enough fuel to reach the station, which orbits 30 miles higher >> than the path taken by Columbia. However, the station does have an >> airlock that its astronauts can use for space walks, and some >> tethered escape attempt might have been made had the shuttle >> gotten there. >> >> Q: What rescue resources could the Russian space program have >> offered if the danger had been recognized? >> >> A: The Russians have two Soyuz space capsules, each able to carry >> just three people, ready to fly, and those craft have no equipment >> to connect to the shuttle. Which gives the lie to the idea that Columbia was in a higher *altitude* orbit than the space station, which is what I had thought I had heard, but was in a higher *inclination* orbit, which was obvious, of course, by its flight path. Columbia is the only shuttle not actually capable of docking with the ISS to begin with, and that's why they freed it up for this mission. . They were talking about putting it into mothballs a few years ago when money was tight. And, of course, somewhere in my google-walking, I came across the fact that Reagan issued an Executive Order in 1986 forbidding any primary shuttle mission to be commercial, which is about when I pulled the plug on about 7 years of my life, and corresponding financial resources... Same shit, etc... Cheers, RAH -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 8.0 - not licensed for commercial use: www.pgp.com iQA/AwUBPj87UMPxH8jf3ohaEQJZjgCglCObe+AQOgjC1FTsQWgK1Bb9gG0An3HP Ghdte3PcwWGtNbJOGlWisD8P =Z9NF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From eugen at leitl.org Mon Feb 3 15:58:24 2003 From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 00:58:24 +0100 (CET) Subject: "Touching shuttle debris may cause bad spirits In-Reply-To: <3E3EC76F.BFA232F@cdc.gov> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Major Variola (ret) wrote: > Berylliosis is mostly from *inhaled* Be dust. You can touch the metal. I thought they mentioned hot isotopes being onboard. Beryllium is really not very relevant. Ditto plutonium, unless you insist to machine it sans microfilter mask. > Smell that, son? Nothing else in the world smells like that.... > I love the smell of hydrazine in the morning.... It smells like It's MMH that cooks your goose. Regular hydrazine (smells like fish) ain't that hypergolic with N2O5. > incompetence. From rah at shipwright.com Mon Feb 3 22:01:15 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 01:01:15 -0500 Subject: Say goodbye to the ISS In-Reply-To: <534C3753-37EF-11D7-9DBF-0050E439C473@got.net> References: <534C3753-37EF-11D7-9DBF-0050E439C473@got.net> Message-ID: Our messages crossed in the mail, but there's this bit here... At 7:18 PM -0800 on 2/3/03, Tim May wrote: > Two crewmen > were prepared to to an EVA to fix dislodged cargo/hatch doors, as on > every flight to date. The other crew could have transferred in their > pressure suits. Ah. Forgot about the pressure suits. Doh. Cheers, RAH -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Mon Feb 3 23:21:55 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 02:21:55 -0500 Subject: Columbia Was Beyond Any Help, Officials Say Message-ID: Speak of the devil... Cheers, RAH ------- http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/04/national/04OPTI.html?ei=5062&en=f65800eae403a700&ex=1045026000&partner=GOOGLE&pagewanted=print&position=bottom February 4, 2003 Columbia Was Beyond Any Help, Officials Say By KENNETH CHANG HOUSTON, Feb. 3 - Even if flight controllers had known for certain that protective heat tiles on the underside of the space shuttle had sustained severe damage at launching, little or nothing could have been done to address the problem, NASA officials say. Virtually since the hour Columbia went down, the space agency has been peppered with possible options for repairing the damage or getting the crew down safely. But in each case, officials here and at the Kennedy Space Center in Florida say, the proposed solution would not have worked. The simplest would have been to abort the mission the moment the damage was discovered. In case of an engine malfunction or other serious problem at launching, a space shuttle can jettison its solid rocket boosters and the external fuel tank, shut down its own engines and glide back down, either returning to the Kennedy Space Center or an emergency landing site in Spain or Morocco. But no one even knew that a piece of insulation from the external tank had hit the orbiter until a frame-by-frame review of videotape of the launching was undertaken the next day. By then, Columbia was already in orbit, and re-entry would have posed the same danger that it did 16 days later. Four other possibilities have been discussed at briefings or in interviews since the loss of Columbia, and rejected one by one by NASA officials. First, repairing the damaged tiles. The crew had no tools for such a repair. At a news conference on Sunday, Ron D. Dittemore, the shuttle program manager, said that early in the shuttle program, NASA considered developing a tile repair kit, but that "we just didn't believe it was feasible at the time." He added that a crew member climbing along the underside of the shuttle could cause even more damage to the tiles. Another idea, widely circulated on the Internet in the last few days, was that the shuttle could have docked with the International Space Station once the damage was discovered. But without the external fuel tank, dropped as usual after launching, Columbia had no fuel for its main engines and thus no way it could propel itself to the station, which circles the earth on a different orbit at a higher altitude. "We have nowhere near the fuel needed to get there," said Bruce Buckingham, a spokesman at the Kennedy Space Center. Another shuttle, Atlantis, was scheduled for launching on March 1 to carry supplies and a new crew to the space station, and it is possible to imagine a Hollywood-type series of events in which NASA rushed Atlantis to the launching pad, sent it up with a minimal crew of two, had it rendezvous with Columbia in space and brought everyone down safely. But Atlantis is still in its hangar, and to rush it to launching would have required NASA to circumvent most of its safety measures. "It takes about three weeks, at our best effort, to prepare the shuttle for launch once we're at the pad," Mr. Buckingham said, "and we're not even at the pad." Further, Columbia had enough oxygen, supplies and fuel (for its thrusters only) to remain in orbit for only five more days, said Patrick Ryan, a spokesman at the Johnson Space Center here. Finally, there is the notion that Columbia's re-entry might have been altered in some way to protect its damaged area. But Mr. Dittemore said the shuttle's descent path was already designed to keep temperatures as low as possible. "Because I'm reusing this vehicle over and over again, so I'm trying to send it through an environment that minimizes the wear and tear on the structure and the tile," he said at his news conference on Sunday. Today he added that he did not know of a way for the shuttle to re-enter so that most of the heat would be absorbed by tiles that were not damaged, on its right wing. "I'm not aware of any other scenarios, any other techniques, that would have allowed me to favor one wing over the other," he said. Even if that had been possible, it would probably have damaged the shuttle beyond repair and made it impossible to land, requiring the crew to parachute out at high speed and at high altitude. He said there was no way managers could have gotten information about the damaged tiles that would have warranted so drastic a move. Gene Kranz, the flight director who orchestrated the rescue of astronauts aboard the crippled Apollo 13 in 1970, said that from what he knew about the suspected tile damage, there was probably nothing that could have been done to save the flight. "The options," he said in a telephone interview, "were just nonexistent." -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From kenhirsch at myself.com Tue Feb 4 01:22:59 2003 From: kenhirsch at myself.com (Ken Hirsch) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 04:22:59 -0500 Subject: "Real Facts" and "Good Facts" References: <200302022026.h12KQ4j13961@artifact.psychedelic.net> Message-ID: <009801c2cc2f$05a90f50$6601a8c0@DXHIRX1> Eric Cordian writes: > In another teletext moment on CNN, the shuttle was described as traveling > at "Mock 18." There was an interesting article in the New York Times (http://tinyurl.com/5b4x) back in Nov 2001 about stenographers working on 9/11--that was an angle I didn't see anywhere else. When these special reports come on--and then go on and on and on--the captioners don't get a break. There are no commercials and they have to keep typing even though the talking heads get to take turns. On 9/11 it was even worse because communications in NY were so screwed up. Y'all are making a big deal about the "dangerous debris". As you may have noticed, there were very few real facts to report so they kept repeating the few tidbits they had, whether they made sense or not. The danger may well be overblown, but it is just prudent of NASA to say not to touch it. There were some pretty big pieces that fell and it is plausible they are still dangerous: http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030203/170/36q9q.html http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030203/168/36jm1.html Good article from 1980 on the boondoggle that is the space shuttle: http://washingtonmonthly.com/features/2001/8004.easterbrook-fulltext.html From gabe at seul.org Tue Feb 4 01:44:59 2003 From: gabe at seul.org (Gabriel Rocha) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 04:44:59 -0500 Subject: [arma@mit.edu: [freehaven-dev] CFP: Workshop on Economics of P2P Systems] Message-ID: <20030204044459.E21474@seul.org> Might be of interest to some here... ----- Forwarded message from Roger Dingledine ----- From jayh at 1st.net Tue Feb 4 03:50:13 2003 From: jayh at 1st.net (jayh at 1st.net) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 06:50:13 -0500 Subject: Visual Hygiene In-Reply-To: <009801c2cc2f$05a90f50$6601a8c0@DXHIRX1> Message-ID: <3E3F62A5.10236.3863C9@localhost> Apparently artwork depicting the horror war is just to disconcerting a backdrop for Ambassador Negroponte as he rallies the troops. http://www.artdaily.com/noticiaframe.asp?not=11&fnot=2/2/2003 http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/9820/guernica.htm (the painting in question) We don't want war presented as anything but whoesome entertainment. j From sunder at sunder.net Tue Feb 4 06:10:39 2003 From: sunder at sunder.net (Sunder) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 09:10:39 -0500 (est) Subject: Tiny whiskers make huge memory storage Message-ID: http://www.upi.com/print.cfm?StoryID=20030131-020248-9059r Tiny whiskers make huge memory storage UPI Science News >From the Science & Technology Desk Published 1/31/2003 4:07 PM BUFFALO, N.Y., Jan. 31 (UPI) -- New, tiny magnetic sensors could help break a technical barrier to ushering in the next generation of computer disk storage capacity, researchers reported Friday. The sensors, filaments of nickel thinner than a wavelength of visible light, are capable of detecting extremely weak magnetic fields. Yeah, yeah, yeah, lots of hype about storing terabytes and so on, not worried about that at all. The real question now is this: how effective are these nickel whiskers are recovering erased data off existing platters, or more precisely how many times do we need to overwrite a disk now to wipe the data? The Guttman technique is what, overwrite something 37x with various patterns and random numbers, so how does this discovery change this number? Yes, yes, we've all discussed to death that the best way to wipe a hard disk is to melt it down in a furnace, scatter the ashes in the ocean, etc... but what if you want to reuse it? (The 2nd obvious parallel is to encrypt everything ahead of time too... also discussed to death, see the archives, yadda, yadda) My question is what's a reasonable order of magnitude of overwriting data now, assuming you're not trying to hide data from, say the NSA. ----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--------------------------- + ^ + :NSA got $20Bil/year |Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\ \|/ :and didn't stop 9-11|share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\ <--*-->:Instead of rewarding|monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/ /|\ :their failures, we |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/ + v + :should get refunds! |site, and you must change them very often. --------_sunder_ at _sunder_._net_------- http://www.sunder.net ------------ From camera_lumina at hotmail.com Tue Feb 4 06:18:43 2003 From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden) Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 09:18:43 -0500 Subject: The Statism Meme Message-ID: Tim May wrote... "Even t.v. commercials are spreading the meme that Big Brother is our friend." Funny he should mention this. This very morning was watching the news and a commerical came on for a local monitored Burglar alarm system. It featured a Customed Superhero "Alarmo" (I think), going around the neighborhood interrogating garbage men, mailmen, even kids and dogs and crap. Basically, the guy was 'jokingly' depicted to have gone a little nutty and certainly facsist. And in the end there was an old couple looking on that LOOKED horrified but basically called to see if Alarmo could work for them to. That commercial was either written by a real nut or by someone who also doesn't like the way things are headed. -TD >From: Tim May >To: cypherpunks at lne.com >Subject: The Statism Meme Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:16:05 -0800 > >OK, so I watch a lot of t.v., or at least have t.v. dramas on a lot. > >I'm struck by how many of them this year treat civil liberties as gone, >either as old-fashioned or as just plain ignorable. > >* On the episodes of "Law and Order" (three different versions weekly, >often repeated on other nights), the cops routinely roust citizens, shop >owners, hotel clerks, etc. Warrants are the exception, and when they are >produced, they are merely waved in front of the targets. Whether this >represents reality is not the point--the point is that the Fourth, Fifth, >and Sixth Amendments are treated as technicalities to be violated at will. >Cops, prosecutors, and judges violating the Constitution are not >sanctioned. Those being violated never fight back, whether with shotguns >or their own lawyers. > >* I just watched a new series called "Miracles." A planeload of passengers >is held without charges, without arrest warrants. One passenger is simply >taken away by the NSA because he may have information of use to them >someday. Again, maybe not plausible, but this shows the meme Americans are >becoming conditioned to accept. > >* On one often execrable show called "Judging Amy," "Child Protection" >workers are shown bursting into homes and apartments, sans warrants of >course. One memorable line was "Yes, we can enter your home without a >warrant...because we're not the police." > >* Even t.v. commercials are spreading the meme that Big Brother is our >friend. G.E. has one such commercial where doctors are told: "Wouldn't it >be wonderful if you could just type in a name and see every medical >treatment your patient has ever received?...with G.E.'s new software, >you'll be able to." (paraphrase of their actual commercial) > >* "Hate speech" is presented on these cop and lawyer shows as being ipso >facto illegal. "These people think the Constitution gives them the freedom >to spew hate." > >* Nearly all of the programs present the Internet as a place which needs >government control. The lawyers and cops editorialize (actually, the script >writers, of course) about how the "Wild West" atmosphere is a haven for >terrorists, gun nuts, pornographers, and Islamic militants. Various plots >on the court shows have involved ISPs being forced to spy on customers. > >* "9/11 changed everything" is heard at least weekly. The judges cite it to >justify unconstitutional measures, the prosecutors use it to justify >warrantless searches and coerced admissions. > >Yes, I understand this is all fiction. Well, some of the scripts are based >on actual events, including coerced confessions, warrantless searches, >"sneak and peek" wiretaps, concentration camps in Cuba, etc. That so many >of these popular programs have themes as I've described tells us what to >expect. > >The statism meme is growing under hothouse conditions. > > >--Tim May, Corralitos, California >Quote of the Month: "It is said that there are no atheists in foxholes; >perhaps there are no true libertarians in times of terrorist attacks." >--Cathy Young, "Reason Magazine," both enemies of liberty. _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From eugen at leitl.org Tue Feb 4 03:18:30 2003 From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 12:18:30 +0100 (CET) Subject: opportunistic encryption Message-ID: Are there any reasons why current systems (whether OpenSource or not) don't ship with opportunistic IPsec out of the box? FreeS/WAN is really easy to set up, and such, but why having to do BIND juggling and extra installation steps. What are the reasons, crypto restrictions? From jayh at 1st.net Tue Feb 4 12:38:49 2003 From: jayh at 1st.net (jayh at 1st.net) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 12:38:49 PST Subject: \"Touching shuttle debris may cause bad spirits Message-ID: <200302042038.h14KcoS10020@www-002.pocketmail.com> Not necessarily. It is a well documented phenomenon that people show up at hospitals with even some seemingly real conditions whenever there is a particular panic in the media, even in cases where it is simply not possible that they were made sick by the incident. (Assuming of course that even the reports of treatment are themselves accurate, which is doubtable under the circumstances.) Jay <----- Original Text -----> The press was reporting that some dozens of people went to hospitals after encountering shuttle parts, and about 8 were actually treated for something, between lung or skin problems (presumably chemical burns of some sort.) So it's not totally harmless. From ptrei at rsasecurity.com Tue Feb 4 09:44:46 2003 From: ptrei at rsasecurity.com (Trei, Peter) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 12:44:46 -0500 Subject: Tiny whiskers make huge memory storage Message-ID: > Sunder[SMTP:sunder at sunder.net] writes [..] > Yeah, yeah, yeah, lots of hype about storing terabytes and so on, not > worried about that at all. The real question now is this: how effective > are these nickel whiskers are recovering erased data off existing > platters, or more precisely how many times do we need to overwrite a disk > now to wipe the data? [...] Each time a more sensitive detector is discoverd, it's used by disk manufacturers to increase storage density. The tracks get finer, the bits and the magnetic forces they generate smaller. I expect this at least partially cancels out the advantage that a more sensitive detector gives the spy. Of course, some sensitive techniques (SQUIDs, etal) are not economic for casual use. Peter From blancw at cnw.com Tue Feb 4 12:50:12 2003 From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 12:50:12 -0800 Subject: The Statism Meme In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Eugen Leitl replies: >Don't count on EU, we're just as fucked, albeit with a slight delay. .................. Thanks, Eugen. This makes me feel better. On emigration choices, I guess one could just take a pick of whether they wish to be more, or less, f****d. .. Blanc From fedstpeteccjab at stpetecc.com Tue Feb 4 08:36:24 2003 From: fedstpeteccjab at stpetecc.com (Bernadine Flanagan) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 13:06:24 -0330 Subject: Want to be healthy Message-ID: <070930442.76699355524142@thebat.net> Don't know where to buy pills?Want to be the best with your girlfriend?We will help you!Best US pharmacy discounts for you.Get our present for your health!!!Only Confidential purchase. Verified by VISA!The monster on this episode appears Emily Prentiss, Derek Morgan, Dr. need humor to really sell drama," hewith murder, mayhem and serial killers, -- that she's not happy with theserial killers, all filming takes placeshe was being treated for anal cancer.including many handwritten notes from Libby himself. Ryan O'Neal, told People magazine act," the three-judge panel wrote in Friday's decision.One unusual thing in this trial: allowing Pingel said, and expects to returntime in the basement and turns outhave said Hynie later annulled her"Criminal Minds" is very clever with points out that in the series' second is the guest villain. Or so it appears.Atlanta office, is the location forin the singer's will, filed January 18Bernero's just been told by directorand the young son were not included Fawcett planned to celebrate her release of many documents related to the case.she was being treated for anal cancer.How journalists keep their notes, where they keep She was heard to tell her attorney defense attorney William Jeffress asked, to arrest Leonard. The case will go and saying, "That's why you're in a goddamn lawsuit." to be the serial killer."Bernero's just been told by director is not valid and that the trust is has made the CBS series a smash hit in its second season. legally married to Brown. manager of the C.A. Reid Funeral Home in legally married to Brown. The Associated Press by phone, "I have a The woman who claims to be James Brown'to arrest Leonard. The case will go in the meeting of cheating his family considering an appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court. about memo from the State Department's intelligence her sources with the grand jury.One of the questions posed by the jurystar said she was "deeply grateful" just sometimes tedious."its multiple themes and plot twists, Augusta, Georgia, which handled Brown's funeral. but technically challenged Agent Reid, through the numerous takes needed when married to another man when she andepisode was a corn field," says Bernero.elite FBI squad's brains buzz and son's toys. They keep saying that they're the decision to go to jail?"about the case before the trial began was in other reporters Wednesday afternoon after the incompetence of others," Cheney wrote. about memo from the State Department's intelligenceshe was being treated for anal cancer. me that I would protect them." He and the lawyers on both sides then"Was this standard method used for archiving your notes?" finds plenty of time to do his flirtatious much more serious allegations."Criminal Minds" is very clever with said. "She's used a camera crew and a lawsuit. rights that have been completely violated Tomi Rae Hynie's lawyer said she filedimagery are woven into a scene.pre-produced video and computer practice is more common. Some lawyers they are asking about issues too far afield.authorize grants to improve police and fireare appropriate for this witness or if their notes. Under cross-examination,say there is a lot of discussion about this lead physician at the Universityoffice and Vice President Dick Cheney's say there is a lot of discussion about this Hearings on both petitions will"There could be some fireworks at but technically challenged Agent Reid,Tomi Rae Hynie's lawyer said she filed has made the CBS series a smash hit in its second season.network is giving the series an added it all comes together. It's Miller refused to answer questions from in a later motion, his First Amendment fulfill the recommendations of the 9/11 Commission. Libby gave him confirming that Wilson's wifeLibby was saying since his handwriting is "Had we known [the cost] before the position could constitute a criminal "It cannot be seriously contended that -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4253 bytes Desc: not available URL: From eugen at leitl.org Tue Feb 4 04:24:14 2003 From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 13:24:14 +0100 (CET) Subject: [>Htech] WP: Leave-Us-Alone Democracy (fwd) Message-ID: <<< No Message Collected >>> From ichudov at Algebra.COM Tue Feb 4 12:47:59 2003 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 14:47:59 -0600 Subject: body parts of astronauts Message-ID: <20030204204759.GA9506@manifold.algebra.com> I can understand the argument that the parts of the shuttle are government property, so their "conversion" to private property may be criminal. But astronauts are not government property. So if, let's say, a charred head falls into my backyard, then it would be legal for me to put it into a jar with denaturate alcohol, as a souvenir, right? igor From hseaver at cybershamanix.com Tue Feb 4 14:04:51 2003 From: hseaver at cybershamanix.com (Harmon Seaver) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 16:04:51 -0600 Subject: The Statism Meme In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030204220451.GA31706@cybershamanix.com> Yeah right -- the eyeties just joined the "new european order" supporting an immediate invasion of Iraq. At least, according to Powell they did. On Tue, Feb 04, 2003 at 04:47:02PM -0500, Tyler Durden wrote: > >Don't count on EU, we're just as fucked, albeit with a slight delay. > > What about Italy? The Italians seem to be remarkably good at ignoring both > the vatican as well as their government (which changes every few years and > no wonder...do ANY Italians actually pay taxes?). And yet, Northern Italy > has as high a standard of living as I've ever seen. > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com From shields at msrl.com Tue Feb 4 08:11:39 2003 From: shields at msrl.com (Michael Shields) Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 16:11:39 +0000 Subject: Encrypted hard drive enclosure for $139 In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030201181300.02629df0@idiom.com> (Bill Stewart's message of "Sat, 01 Feb 2003 18:17:40 -0800") References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030201181300.02629df0@idiom.com> Message-ID: <87u1fkkouc.fsf@mulligatwani.msrl.com> In article <5.1.1.6.2.20030201181300.02629df0 at idiom.com>, Bill Stewart wrote: > Now, 712 Mbit/sec is about 90 MByte/sec, which means if it > were doing 3DES, it'd probably be about 30 MByte/sec, > which is no longer fast enough to be entertaining. Yes, it is. Despite the disk manufacturers' intentionally misleading spec sheets, most hard disks are not very much faster than 30 MB/s. For example, the new Barracuda V transfers between 23 and 44 MB/s, depending on where on the disk you read from. http://www.storagereview.com/benchimages/ST3120023A_str.png Even if the disk were infinitely fast, the Firewire interface is limited to 50 MB/s. I think this product would be extremely useful, if it is trustable. -- Shields. From frissell at panix.com Tue Feb 4 13:42:45 2003 From: frissell at panix.com (Duncan Frissell) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 16:42:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: The Statism Meme In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Blanc wrote: > Years ago I asked a group of Libertarians at a meeting what they would do if > a particular politican, who was then running for President, won and turned > everything into a bona-fide, outright statist state like Russia was at the > time. They couldn't adequately answer my question; they couldn't come up > with any ideas of how to deal with it, what they would do if they suddenly > were faced with having to live with it. Maybe they were just being You mean no one said, "I'd grab the .30-06 and head for the hills"? We're not quite there yet. Since no one did it during WWII when the oppression was greater -- 200,000 internees, rationing, travel controls, bans on posession of radio equipment, conscription, etc. -- we have some time to think. DCF From frissell at panix.com Tue Feb 4 13:44:54 2003 From: frissell at panix.com (Duncan Frissell) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 16:44:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: The Statism Meme In-Reply-To: <6118EDD2-37F7-11D7-9DBF-0050E439C473@got.net> References: <6118EDD2-37F7-11D7-9DBF-0050E439C473@got.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Tim May wrote: > I'm struck by how many of them this year treat civil liberties as gone, > either as old-fashioned or as just plain ignorable. I love the frequent use of facial recognition systems on TV as well. With, of course, no mention of the fact that they don't work. DCF From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 4 14:36:06 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 17:36:06 -0500 Subject: mail weirdness In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030204084957.02cc2008@idiom.com> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030203102127.02e1c690@idiom.com> <20030203161904.GA29570@cybershamanix.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030203102127.02e1c690@idiom.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030204084957.02cc2008@idiom.com> Message-ID: At 8:53 AM -0800 on 2/4/03, Bill Stewart wrote: > as opposed to Bob Hettinga's practice of copying everything to > his usual sets of lists, most of which don't allow replies from > non-subscribers. Most of which I forward your answers on to, if that's any consolation. Yes, Tim, I know, I'm an idiot, get over it. :-). Cheers, RAH -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From blancw at cnw.com Tue Feb 4 18:38:42 2003 From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 18:38:42 -0800 Subject: The Statism Meme In-Reply-To: <20030205005526.GA31968@cybershamanix.com> Message-ID: Harmon Seaver said: > Yaaas, yaass, yyaaasss -- and what about us half-assed libertarians, us >leftysized anarchistic earthfirsters, us gunslinging 2nd boys (and >WTF is this ".30-06" bullshit anyway, we ain't all that ancient?), >and other fringe/extremeist ufo/wacko pppeeeples? I mean -- I mean -- >WTF do you mean, Blanc, by signifyin' on all us folks thataway? ......................... It was Duncan, said this. As for half-assed libertarians, well, they're left to their own devices. But I expect you'd be twisting in the wind just the same. .. Blanc From hseaver at cybershamanix.com Tue Feb 4 17:08:37 2003 From: hseaver at cybershamanix.com (Harmon Seaver) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 19:08:37 -0600 Subject: The Statism Meme In-Reply-To: <20030205005526.GA31968@cybershamanix.com> References: <20030205005526.GA31968@cybershamanix.com> Message-ID: <20030205010837.GB32000@cybershamanix.com> On Tue, Feb 04, 2003 at 06:55:26PM -0600, Harmon Seaver wrote: > Yaaas, yaass, yyaaasss -- and what about us half-assed libertarians, us > leftysized anarchistic earthfirsters, us gunslinging 2nd boys (and WTF is this > ".30-06" bullshit anyway, we ain't all that ancient?), and other > fringe/extremeist ufo/wacko pppeeeples? I mean -- I mean -- WTF do you mean, > Blanc, by signifyin' on all us folks thataway? > > .30-06? geez -- he'd be too old to head fer the hills anyway. Uh, I meant fer that to say, "too old to head fer the hills anyhow." From shaddack at ns.arachne.cz Tue Feb 4 11:40:20 2003 From: shaddack at ns.arachne.cz (Thomas Shaddack) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 20:40:20 +0100 (CET) Subject: Putting the "NSA Data Overwrite Standard" Legend to Death... (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 10:57:09 -0600 Subject: Putting the "NSA Data Overwrite Standard" Legend to Death... From: Jonathan G. Lampe To: bugtraq at securityfocus.net OK, I'm sure this one will start a flame war, but...I work for a vendor whose products overwrite files when "deleting" them as a way of protecting old data. Lately several customers have been asking for "NSA" or "DoD" standard overwrites, usually with a value of 3, 7 or 9. (Our response to the feature was to more or less let the owner of the product pick the number of overwrites; the obvious tradeoff is morewrites=slowerdisk.) Anyway, while researching how we wanted to document recommended values for the overwrite feature, I looked into the "DoD" and "NSA" standards. I was not surprised to see that a "DoD standard" DOES exist: Government name: DoD 5220.22-M A nice summary: http://www.zdelete.com/dod.htm (not my product) Some original documents: http://www.dss.mil/isec/nispom.htm Long story short: 1 overwrite = CLEAR, 3 overwrites = SANITIZED (non-removable rigid disk) I was surprised, however, to learn that a "NSA standard" DOES NOT exist. I did the usual Google searches and came up with nothing but various sites and postings claiming the standard was anything from 5 to 20 overwrites. Then I called the NSA (1-800-688-6115 - http://www.nsa.gov/isso). The first person I chatted with passed on the question, but the second answered the question in no uncertain terms - NSA is aware of DoD 5220.22-M and DOES NOT have a separate recommendation. So...could this finally be the end of IT employees casually tossing around the "NSA overwrite standard" - or is there something I'm missing? Second, where did the number 7 really come from? (It seems to be the leading recommendation out there right now for number of overwrites and is frequently attributed to the NSA.) - Jonathan Lampe, GCIA, GSNA - jonathan.lampe at stdnet.com From declan at well.com Tue Feb 4 18:14:34 2003 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 21:14:34 -0500 Subject: Gullible Journalists In-Reply-To: <3E3F8F1E.7941.17A907@localhost>; from mmotyka@lsil.com on Tue, Feb 04, 2003 at 09:59:58AM -0800 References: <3E3F8F1E.7941.17A907@localhost> Message-ID: <20030204211434.A22851@cluebot.com> On Tue, Feb 04, 2003 at 09:59:58AM -0800, Michael Motyka wrote: > The net effect is that by and large journalists have become a > cheerleading squad when what is needed is a vigorous and independent > critical facility. That is if we are to retain some degree of the > of, by and for philosophy. Maybe nobody wants that except for a few > malcontents. Right. See what I sent to Politech today: Does Richard Clarke know what he's talking about? http://www.politechbot.com/p-04403.html More on Richard Clarke and root servers misstatement http://www.politechbot.com/p-04405.html Richard Clarke misstates Canadian elections cancelled? http://www.politechbot.com/p-04404.html Anyone think that Clarke is going to return my phone calls anytine soon? It's human nature not to like criticism, and to shun (or, if sufficiently annoying, to attack) your critics. As another example, I got a call today from one of the popular Sunday morning talk shows. They wanted my advice on whom to invite on. I recommended someone, and they reminded me, "Um, didn't you watch the program recently? Our host has been critical of that [person]. There's no way we'll get someone from [that organization] on the program." Sigh. -Declan From declan at well.com Tue Feb 4 18:18:25 2003 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 21:18:25 -0500 Subject: mail weirdness In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030204084957.02cc2008@idiom.com>; from bill.stewart@pobox.com on Tue, Feb 04, 2003 at 08:53:58AM -0800 References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030203102127.02e1c690@idiom.com> <20030203161904.GA29570@cybershamanix.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030203102127.02e1c690@idiom.com> <20030203194119.GA29733@cybershamanix.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030204084957.02cc2008@idiom.com> Message-ID: <20030204211825.B22851@cluebot.com> On Tue, Feb 04, 2003 at 08:53:58AM -0800, Bill Stewart wrote: > Declan's postings are usually either normal postings to cypherpunks > or else posted to his politech list (most of which have Subject: FC > something.) I'm subscribed to politech, so I haven't had any > weirdness when replying. Yep. I use Eudora and mutt and haven't changed my mail setup in quite a while. (For Politech, I use majordomo and have had FC: prepended since 1996 or so.) Suspect, self-defensively, that I'm not the source of any weirdness. :) -Declan From eugen at leitl.org Tue Feb 4 12:25:22 2003 From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 21:25:22 +0100 (CET) Subject: The Statism Meme In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Blanc wrote: > A sad, disturbing prospect to contemplate. Someone on another list > remarked that it might become necessary for those in Europe to do some > internet-type rescuing of the American people. Hmmmm. If things get utterly intolerable, and fighting makes no sense since you're in a minority you can always emigrate. My parents did it more than twenty years ago when leaving Evil Empire; some of my best friends are expats unwilling to go back to Merkinland for political reasons. Don't count on EU, we're just as fucked, albeit with a slight delay. From hseaver at cybershamanix.com Tue Feb 4 20:08:57 2003 From: hseaver at cybershamanix.com (Harmon Seaver) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 22:08:57 -0600 Subject: Duh, transport In-Reply-To: References: <20030204215315.GA31489@cybershamanix.com> Message-ID: <20030205040857.GA32228@cybershamanix.com> On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 01:56:22AM +0000, Peter Fairbrother wrote: > > Railways: > Euro railways are better than US - but in at least the UK there is > "compulsory purchase", when they grab your land and pay you very little for > it, in order to build them. And too much government is involved. Yeah, the same with highways (and airports, for that matter) here. The WI DOT is the states biggest boondogle, with prisons second. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com From morlockelloi at yahoo.com Tue Feb 4 22:26:11 2003 From: morlockelloi at yahoo.com (Morlock Elloi) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 22:26:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: Putting the "NSA Data Overwrite Standard" Legend to Death... (fwd) In-Reply-To: <200302050446.h154kKc30338@medusa01.cs.auckland.ac.nz> Message-ID: <20030205062611.50288.qmail@web40602.mail.yahoo.com> > From the OSI 7-layer model, which took it from the fact that the number 7 is It's simpler than that. Russians wanted 6, americans 8. ===== end (of original message) Y-a*h*o-o (yes, they scan for this) spam follows: Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From die at die.com Tue Feb 4 22:18:52 2003 From: die at die.com (Dave Emery) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 01:18:52 -0500 Subject: Tiny whiskers make huge memory storage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030205061852.GA1366@pig.die.com> On Tue, Feb 04, 2003 at 09:10:39AM -0500, Sunder wrote: > > My question is what's a reasonable order of magnitude of overwriting data > now, assuming you're not trying to hide data from, say the NSA. > This raises a question I've long had. ARE there actual systems for reading overwritten disk data in existance out there ? Are they in daily use or merely laboratory curiosities ? I know, of course, that there are companies that supply disk recovery services, but as far as I have ever heard they mostly work with non overwritten data on disks that have bad electronics, bad motors, bad head actuators, damaged formating, bad servo tracks, bad heads, damaged surfaces and so forth. The most I have ever heard of being routinely done is reading data off a platter with a special external head positioned by special mechanics and servo systems. And of course most of what data recovery companies do is work with disks with corrupt filesystems but largely or entirely intact information content on the platters. This includes partially erased filesystems and file systems with key information blocks that cannot be reliably read or that have been overwritten by garbage. None of this involves reading the ghosts of previous data in sectors that have been overwritten once or multiple times. So what is the actual threat ? Are there any papers describing practical production systems and proven techniques for retrieving overwritten data ? How good are they - what BERs are obtainable for what percentage of data ? Clearly a cryptographer legitimately worries about being able to infer that a particular bit a of key has a slightly greater than 50% chance of being a 1 or 0, but for most users retrieving email or documents with even one or two corrupt characters in them per page may not be very interesting even if it is possible. And good lawyer should be able to plant doubt in the minds of a jury if the data is really garbled, even if it seems incriminating. So it would seem that for most normal recovery purposes (business data recovery and evidence) any multi-layer ghost data recovery would have to be pretty good to be worth investing in. The NSA/CIA, however might be interested in anything at all under some circumstances - without those limitations. So how real is the threat - what does it cost to have it done and how expensive is the gear ? Who actually has working setups in use ? And how many layers down can they really read ? And with what BER ? -- Dave Emery N1PRE, die at die.com DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2 5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18 From eresrch at eskimo.com Wed Feb 5 07:48:13 2003 From: eresrch at eskimo.com (Mike Rosing) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 07:48:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: Feds pull plug on suspicious "cyberwarfare" .gov site In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030205092400.02acf200@mail.well.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, Declan McCullagh wrote: > Wonder if any current .gov domains are owned by individuals pulling a prank? > > -Declan > > >Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 08:46:20 -0500 > >From: Declan McCullagh > >To: politech at politechbot.com > >Subject: FC: Feds pull plug on suspicious "cyberwarfare" .gov site > > > >I've placed a mirror of AONN.gov here: > >http://www.politechbot.com/docs/aonn/ I followed down the page and found a name, then googled for it. Check this out and laugh your butt off! http://www.manhunt.com/features/html/89.shtml Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike From zenadsl6186 at zen.co.uk Wed Feb 5 00:31:29 2003 From: zenadsl6186 at zen.co.uk (Peter Fairbrother) Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 08:31:29 +0000 Subject: Transport, the near future In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030204212159.047de490@mail.attbi.com> Message-ID: Steve Schear wrote: > > My preference is the space elevator. In simple terms, the space elevator > is a ribbon with one end attached to the Earth's surface and the other end > in space beyond geosynchronous orbit (35,800 km altitude). The competing > forces of gravity at the lower end, and outward centripetal acceleration at > the farther end, keep the ribbon under tension and stationary over a single > position on Earth. This ribbon, once deployed, can be ascended by > mechanical means to Earth orbit. If a climber proceeds to the far end of > the ribbon and releases, it would have sufficient energy to escape from > Earth's gravity and travel to the Moon, Mars, Venus and the asteroids. > > http://www.highliftsystems.com/ > > > "Reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be > fooled." > -- Richard P. Feynman It's a nice idea, but it needs a tensile-strength-to-mass ratio equivalent to holding a girl and her mother up by a single thread of her 10 denier stockings. Not easy to achieve. You'd need carbon nanotubes or the like, and at the moment we can't build it. You also need 45,000 km or so of tether. Expensive. Huge investment, fragile. Unrealistic, imo. Rotating tethers on the other hand can use hi-test fishing line. Really, no kidding. You only need a few hundred km, or at most a few thousand km, of tether. Cheap. There are two types, landing takeup and hypersonic takeup. They work a bit like this (here goes a try at some ascii art...) [] orbiting mass--> \ \ rotating tether \ \ <-\ space -------------------- atmosphere ________________________ earth (on this scale a space elevator cable would be roughly six feet long) The tether, whose centre of gravity is in a fairly low orbit, dips it's end into the earth's atmosphere every so often. Hypersonic takeup tethers catch a 'plane flying at hypersonic speeds in the upper atmosphere, and landing takeup tethers reach the surface. The energy/momentum is replaced by sending current through the tether as it passes through the Earth's magnetic field. Hypersonic takeup tethers are better studied, even the rendezvous techniques apparently work, and can use fishing line except for the short length that enters the upper atmosphere (it would melt). They use a mesh-like tether structure to avoid catastrophic damage from meteorites etc (a patented, but IMO obvious, idea). Landing tethers sort of cast the line a bit ahead, like a fisherman; it hits the ground, is tied on to the spaceship (good knots!) and then the line and the spaceship are dragged up. No-one really has studied them much (except me, and I'm not telling yet), but the strength (and length) of line needed is _much_ (order of mag+) less than a space elevator. And you don't need a hypersonic 'plane. You can also fling things away from the tether when they're going away from the Earth. Can get any (reasonable) speed you like. -- Peter Fairbrother From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz Tue Feb 4 20:08:17 2003 From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:08:17 +1300 Subject: The Crypto Gardening Guide and Planting Tips Message-ID: <200302050408.h1548H209355@medusa01.cs.auckland.ac.nz> After much procrastination I recently put the Crypto Gardening Guide and Planting Tips online at http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/crypto_guide.txt, this may be of interest to readers. From the introduction: There has been a great deal of difficulty experienced in getting research performed by cryptographers in the last decade or so (beyond basic algorithms such as SHA and AES) applied in practice. The reason for this is that cryptographers don't work on things that implementors need because it's not cool, and implementors don't use what cryptographers design because it's not useful or sufficiently aligned with real-world considerations to be practical. As a result, security standards are being created with mechanisms that have had little or no security analysis, often homebrew mechanisms or the standards editor's pet scheme. The problem is a lack of communication: Cryptographers often don't seem aware of the real-world constraints that their design will need to work within in order to be successfully deployed. The intent of this document is to cover some of those real-world constraints for cryptographers, to point out problems that their designs will run into when attempts are made to deploy them. Also included is a motivational list of extremely uncool problems that implementors have been building ad-hoc solutions for since no formal ones exist. Peter. --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz Tue Feb 4 20:46:20 2003 From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:46:20 +1300 Subject: Putting the "NSA Data Overwrite Standard" Legend to Death... (fwd) Message-ID: <200302050446.h154kKc30338@medusa01.cs.auckland.ac.nz> Thomas Shaddack writes: >Second, where did the number 7 really come from? >From the OSI 7-layer model, which took it from the fact that the number 7 is sacred to a certain tribe in Borneo (see "The Elements of Networking Style", by Mike Padlipsky). Peter. From adam at cypherspace.org Thu Feb 6 17:07:16 2003 From: adam at cypherspace.org (Adam Back) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 01:07:16 +0000 Subject: password based key-wrap (Re: The Crypto Gardening Guide and Planting Tips) In-Reply-To: <200302050408.h1548H209355@medusa01.cs.auckland.ac.nz>; from pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz on Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 05:08:17PM +1300 References: <200302050408.h1548H209355@medusa01.cs.auckland.ac.nz> Message-ID: <20030207010716.A2504400@exeter.ac.uk> Peter lists applied crypto problem in his "Crypto Gardening Guide" at: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/crypto_guide.txt One of the problems from the "Problems that Need Solving" section is: > * A key wrap function where the wrapping key is derived from a > password. The requirements for this are subtly different from a > straight symmetric key wrap in that the threat model is rather > different. For example a symmetric key wrap may use HMAC to ensure > non-malleability, but for password-based key wrap this makes a > dictionary attack rather easier (throw passwords at the HMAC, > sidestepping the encrypted key altogether). There exists a (ad-hoc) > design that has rather limited non-malleability in order to avoid > potential dictionary attacks. I may not be fully understanding the problem spec: you want to encrypt (wrap) a randomly generated key (a per message session key for example) with a key derived from a password. What would be wrong with using PBKDF2 (from PKCS #5 / RFC2898) as the key derivation function to give you defense against dictionary attack. (Allows choice of number of iterations to "stretch" the password, allows a salt to frustrate precomputation.) Why do you care about non-malleability of the key-wrap function? If you do want non-malleability of th ekey-wrap function, isn't encrypt and MAC a standard way to do this? Then you would need two keys, and I presume it would make sense to derive them (using KDF2 from IEEE P1363a) a start key: sk = KDF2( password, salt, iterations ) ek = KDF( sk, specialization1 ) mk = KDF( sk, specialization2 ) and then AES in CBC mode with random IV encrypting with ek, with appended HMAC with key mk. That leaves the comment: > but for password-based key wrap this makes a dictionary attack > rather easier (throw passwords at the HMAC, sidestepping the > encrypted key altogether). but in this case the attacker could take his pick with no significant advantage of either method: - brute force passwords to get sk, derive ek from sk, decrypt the wrapped key and use some knowledge about the plaintext encrypted with the wrapped key to tell if the write password was chosen; or - brute force passwords to get sk, derive mk from sk, and see if the MAC is valid MAC of the ciphertext (presuming encrypt and then MAC) Or is the problem that the above ensemble is ad-hoc (though using standardised constructs). Or just that the ensemble is ad-hoc and so everyone will be forced to re-invent minor variations of it, with varying degrees of security. Adam --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From astiglic at okiok.com Fri Feb 7 09:22:45 2003 From: astiglic at okiok.com (Anton Stiglic) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 12:22:45 -0500 Subject: password based key-wrap (Re: The Crypto Gardening Guide and Planting Tips) References: <200302050408.h1548H209355@medusa01.cs.auckland.ac.nz> <20030207010716.A2504400@exeter.ac.uk> Message-ID: <001401c2cecd$8a2ae640$24ab6395@p1038mobile> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adam Back" To: "Peter Gutmann" Cc: ; ; "Adam Back" Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 8:07 PM Subject: password based key-wrap (Re: The Crypto Gardening Guide and Planting Tips) > [...] > Or is the problem that the above ensemble is ad-hoc (though using > standardised constructs). Or just that the ensemble is ad-hoc and so > everyone will be forced to re-invent minor variations of it, with > varying degrees of security. One of the problems is exactly that. There is no known proof of security for PBKDF2 (it might be possible to come up with one, but to the best of my knowledge nobody did so far). Ironically, there are some proofs of security for the older version of the same standard, PBKDF1 (which was replaced by PBKDF2 only because the output of PBKDF1 was of fixed length, so you couldn't derive much key material). You can prove some things about PBKDF1 relating to the fact that an adversary cannot compute the result of PBKDF1 without having to compute a certain required amount of hashes (this is the stretching part). The details of that are in the paper "Secure Applications of Low-Entropy Keys" by Kelsey, Schneier, Hall and Wagner: http://www.counterpane.com/low-entropy.pdf But I do think that PBKDF2 sounds reasonable, and I wouldn't be surprised if we can prove something about it's security in some reasonable model. I would use PBKDF2 if I needed to wrap a session key with only a password. In general, the problems with existing proposed key derivation functions is that they are all based on ad-hoc constructions. There is a skunks work group trying to come up with a proposal for a key derivation function which is based on some provable secure results. --Anton --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From schear at attbi.com Sat Feb 8 20:50:41 2003 From: schear at attbi.com (Steve Schear) Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 20:50:41 -0800 Subject: Implementation of Chosen-Ciphertext Attacks against PGP and GnuPG Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030208204041.0367ec90@mail.attbi.com> [Apologies if this item was passed through the list. It was news to me.] Implementation of Chosen-Ciphertext Attacks against PGP and GnuPG K. Jallad, J. Katz, and B. Schneier Information Security Conference 2002 Proceedings, Springer-Verlag, 2002, to appear. ABSTRACT: We recently noted that PGP and other e-mail encryption protocols are, in theory, highly vulnerable to chosen-ciphertext attacks in which the recipient of the e-mail acts as an unwitting "decryption oracle." We argued further that such attacks are quite feasible and therefore represent a serious concern. Here, we investigate these claims in more detail by attempting to implement the suggested attacks. On one hand, we are able to successfully implement the described attacks against PGP and GnuPG (two widely-used software packages) in a number of different settings. On the other hand, we show that the attacks largely fail when data is compressed before encryption. Interestingly,the attacks are unsuccessful for largely fortuitous reasons; resistance to these attacks does not seem due to any conscious effort made to prevent them. Based on our work, we discuss those instances in which chosen-ciphertext attacks do indeed represent an important threat and hence must be taken into account in order to maintain confidentiality. We also recommend changes in the OpenPGP standard to reduce the effectiveness of our attacks in these settings. http://www.counterpane.com/pgp-attack.html "Reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard P. Feynman --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From bear at sonic.net Sun Feb 9 09:48:34 2003 From: bear at sonic.net (bear) Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 09:48:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: Columbia crypto box In-Reply-To: <008601c2d003$9f7eecd0$6601a8c0@VAIO650> Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Feb 2003, Lucky Green wrote: >In July of 1997, only days after the Mars Pathfinder mission and its >Sojourner Rover successfully landed on Mars, I innocently inquired on >the Cypherpunks mailing list if any subscribers happened to know if and >how NASA authenticates the command uplink to what at the time was >arguably the coolest RC toy in the solar system. ... >Apparently, my original inquiry had been copied and forwarded several >times. By the time my inquiry had reached the office of the President, >just as in a children's' game of telephone, my question of "are they >using any decent crypto" had turned in to "hackers ready to take over >Mars Rover". ... >Needless to say and regardless of anyone's intent, such concern >would be entirely unfounded if the uplink were securely authenticated. > >Which I believes represents an answer to my initial question as to >whether the uplink is securely authenticated. Actually, I don't think it does. It's been my experience that the decision-makers never even *KNOW* whether their systems are secure. They've been sold snake-oil claims of security so many times, and, inevitably, seen those systems compromised, that even when responsible and knowledgeable engineers say a system is secure, they have to regard it as just another claim of the same type that's been proven false before. So I can easily imagine them just not knowing whether the link was secure, thinking that the NASA engineer's job of "securing" uplinks might be no better than Microsoft's job of "securing" communications or operating systems, because they've had it demonstrated time and again that even when they hear words like "secure", the system can be compromised. The fact is that the NASA engineer has a huge advantage; s/he's not working for a marketing department that will toss security for convenience, s/he's not working on something whose code has to be copied a million times and distributed to people with debuggers all over the world, s/he's not trying to "hide" information from people on their own computer systems, and s/he's not complying with deals made with various people that require backdoors and "transparency to law enforcement" in every box. So the NASA engineer's actually got a chance of making something secure, where the Microsoft engineer didn't. Microsoft has to claim their junk is secure, but in their case it's just marketing gas. But all this is below the notice of the decision makers; they *LIVE* in a world where marketing gas is indistinguishable from reality, because they don't have the engineer's knowledge of the issues. So having the decision makers get real nervous was likely to happen, whether the link is secure or not. There's no information there except that the decision makers have finally realized they don't really *know* whether the link is secure. That's progress, of a sort. >[Remind me to some time recount the tale of my discussing key management >with the chief-cryptographer for a battlefield communication system >considerably younger than the shuttle fleet. Appalling does not being to >describe it]. Battlefield systems have been that way forever. Battlefield information only has to remain secure for a few seconds to a few hours, and they exploit that to the max in making the systems flexible and fast enough for actual use. You want appalling? In the civil war, they used monoalphabetic substitution as a "trench code" -- on both sides. Bear --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From sunder at sunder.net Sun Feb 9 06:55:49 2003 From: sunder at sunder.net (Sunder) Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 09:55:49 -0500 (est) Subject: Forced Oaths to Pieces of Cloth In-Reply-To: <3E44447D.368A55BB@cdc.gov> Message-ID: And also freedom of religion. Forcing someone to say "Under God" for example. ----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--------------------------- + ^ + :NSA got $20Bil/year |Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\ \|/ :and didn't stop 9-11|share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\ <--*-->:Instead of rewarding|monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/ /|\ :their failures, we |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/ + v + :should get refunds! |site, and you must change them very often. --------_sunder_ at _sunder_._net_------- http://www.sunder.net ------------ On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Major Variola (ret) wrote: > At 12:22 AM 2/8/03 +0100, Thomas Shaddack wrote: > >> But recite they must. Under a state law that takes effect today, > almost > >> every student in Pennsylvania - from preschool through high school, > in > >> schools public and private - must face the Stars and Stripes each > school > >> day and say the pledge or sing the national anthem. > > > >Are there any penalties for refusing to take part in this circus? > >If yes, isn't the contract - pledge - forced, and hence legally > invalid? > > The 1st prohibits both State banning and the *compulsion* of speech, as > this > clearly is an example of. From sunder at sunder.net Sun Feb 9 06:59:51 2003 From: sunder at sunder.net (Sunder) Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 09:59:51 -0500 (est) Subject: FC: DOJ quietly drafts USA Patriot II, includes anti-crypto section In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030207214040.026db560@mail.well.com> Message-ID: Time to start a new ad campaign: "You don't run around naked in public do you? Neither should your packets! Encrypt your traffic - it's just common sense!" "Your internet packets are naked! Clothe them with IPSEC" "Don't help the terrorists to your financial info - encrypt!" "You wouldn't want Osama reading your email, would you? Encrypt" Then when everything's encrypted, such laws can be challenged. ----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--------------------------- + ^ + :NSA got $20Bil/year |Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\ \|/ :and didn't stop 9-11|share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\ <--*-->:Instead of rewarding|monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/ /|\ :their failures, we |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/ + v + :should get refunds! |site, and you must change them very often. --------_sunder_ at _sunder_._net_------- http://www.sunder.net ------------ On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Declan McCullagh wrote: > Thanks to Joe for being the first one to submit this... Here's a duplicate > URL if the original is too slow: > http://www.privacy.org/patriot2draft.pdf > > Note the draft legislation creates a new federal felony of willfully using > encryption in the commission of a felony. "No more than five years" in > prison plus a hefty fine. This seems at first glance to be remarkably > similar to what was in the SAFE bill years ago. Here's a Politech message > from 1998, before the politechbot.com archives: > http://www.inet-one.com/cypherpunks/dir.98.05.11-98.05.17/msg00046.html From frantz at pwpconsult.com Sun Feb 9 10:57:14 2003 From: frantz at pwpconsult.com (Bill Frantz) Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 10:57:14 -0800 Subject: Forced Oaths to Pieces of Cloth In-Reply-To: References: <3E44447D.368A55BB@cdc.gov> Message-ID: At 6:55 AM -0800 2/9/03, Sunder wrote: >And also freedom of religion. Forcing someone to say "Under God" for >example. Back in the dark ages (the 1950s, and don't anyone get nostalgic for them), when the phrase "under god" was added to the pledge, I was a student in school. From what they had taught me, I knew then that this addition violated the establishment of religion clause. The solution I devised was to simply remain silent when this phrase was said. Unfortunately having started to question the relation between the pledge and the ideals of the country, I started to wonder why I was pledging to the flag, instead of the country. So over the years, I have a somewhat edited version (removed parts in brackets): I pledge allegiance to [the flag of] the United States of America [and to the republic for which it stands], one nation [under god], indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Except for the fact that one should not trust pledges that are made under coercion, I am reasonably comfortable with this edited version. It expresses the ideal nation that I wish the United States would become. Cheers - Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | Due process for all | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | used to be the Ameican | 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz at pwpconsult.com | way. | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA From tcmay at got.net Sun Feb 9 11:34:47 2003 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 11:34:47 -0800 Subject: Forced Oaths to Pieces of Cloth In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8CA18707-3C65-11D7-9DBF-0050E439C473@got.net> On Sunday, February 9, 2003, at 10:57 AM, Bill Frantz wrote: > At 6:55 AM -0800 2/9/03, Sunder wrote: >> And also freedom of religion. Forcing someone to say "Under God" for >> example. > > Back in the dark ages (the 1950s, and don't anyone get nostalgic for > them), > when the phrase "under god" was added to the pledge, I was a student in > school. From what they had taught me, I knew then that this addition > violated the establishment of religion clause. The solution I devised > was > to simply remain silent when this phrase was said. During the possibly more radical 60s, some of us uttered "under Satan" during this sequence. One of my friends got a trip to the Principal's office for this, where he explained that he believed in Satan and that God was just a pretender, and if the Principal could demonstrate that the U.S. officially recognizes one deity over another he would reconsider. > > Unfortunately having started to question the relation between the > pledge > and the ideals of the country, I started to wonder why I was pledging > to > the flag, instead of the country. So over the years, I have a somewhat > edited version (removed parts in brackets): I don't "pledge" to either a flag or a country. I just live here. And this is where the stuff I own is located. All I ask of government is that they stay out of my way. --Tim May From schear at attbi.com Sun Feb 9 12:14:33 2003 From: schear at attbi.com (Steve Schear) Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 12:14:33 -0800 Subject: Forced Oaths to Pieces of Cloth In-Reply-To: <8CA18707-3C65-11D7-9DBF-0050E439C473@got.net> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030209121201.046696e0@mail.attbi.com> At 11:34 AM 2/9/2003 -0800, Tim May wrote: >On Sunday, February 9, 2003, at 10:57 AM, Bill Frantz wrote: >Unfortunately having started to question the relation between the pledge >>and the ideals of the country, I started to wonder why I was pledging to >>the flag, instead of the country. So over the years, I have a somewhat >>edited version (removed parts in brackets): > >I don't "pledge" to either a flag or a country. I just live here. And this >is where the stuff I own is located. All I ask of government is that they >stay out of my way. I think parents should teach their children that they should condition the recital of the pledge to when those elected to office are routinely held accountable to breaches of the oath of office. steve From declan at well.com Sun Feb 9 10:39:12 2003 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 13:39:12 -0500 Subject: DOJ worried about domestic-int'l terror links Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030209133850.015fd7f8@mail.well.com> http://www.dailyrotten.com/source-docs/patriot2draft.html The limitation to international terrorism in existing law is an impediment to the effective use of national security letters because it may not be apparent in the early stages of a terrorism investigation-or even after it has continued for some time-whether domestic or international terrorism is involved. The Oklahoma City bombing and the anthrax letter incidents illustrate this point. Moreover, in the current circumstances, domestic terrorists who attempt to ally with or are inspired to emulate international terrorists are an increasing concern. The dangers posed to the national security by such persons may be comparable to those posed by international terrorists, and national security letters should likewise be an available tool in the investigation of their criminal activities. From declan at well.com Sun Feb 9 11:13:24 2003 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 14:13:24 -0500 Subject: DOJ quietly drafts USA Patriot II w/crypto-in-a-crime penalty In-Reply-To: <20030209033634.GA23201@ils.unc.edu>; from gbnewby@ils.unc.edu on Sat, Feb 08, 2003 at 10:36:35PM -0500 References: <20030207221053.B14262@cluebot.com> <20030209033634.GA23201@ils.unc.edu> Message-ID: <20030209141324.A8569@cluebot.com> On Sat, Feb 08, 2003 at 10:36:35PM -0500, Greg Newby wrote: > "Under the new law, running shoes will be classified > as burgler's tools if their use is not authorized or > exceeds reasonable levels for leisure activity." I always thought that breathing during the commission of a crime should result in an extra five to ten years in prison. At least. -Declan From eresrch at eskimo.com Sun Feb 9 14:32:13 2003 From: eresrch at eskimo.com (Mike Rosing) Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 14:32:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: [IP] Open Source TCPA driver and white papers (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Feb 2003, Anonymous via the Cypherpunks Tonga Remailer wrote: > However note: you can't defend TCPA as being "good" vs Palladium "bad" > (as you did by in an earlier post) by saying that TCPA only provides > key storage. TPM != TCPA. TCPA with *user* control is good. > As Michel noted TCPA and Palladium both provide remote attestation and > sealing, and it is this pair of functions which provides the DRM > functionality. > > Therefore for DRM purposes TCPA and Palladium are both socially bad > technologies. It's bad only if the *user* does not have control over their own machines. If each enterprise can control their own machines, completely independently of all other external organizations, then TCPA could be really useful. If only Bill Gates controls all machines, it's bad for the rest of us (but pretty damn good for Bill!!) Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike From eresrch at eskimo.com Sun Feb 9 14:43:22 2003 From: eresrch at eskimo.com (Mike Rosing) Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 14:43:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: My favorite line from the DOJ's latest draft bill In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030209141202.01600818@mail.well.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Feb 2003, Declan McCullagh wrote: > http://www.dailyrotten.com/source-docs/patriot2draft.html > terrorism is at least as dangerous to the United States' national security > as drug offenses That's a good find! People sitting around laughing their butts off is really a dangerous phenomena! Just like the killing of 3000 people! I want the drugs those guys have, there's no view of reality warped quite that bad I've ever seen on of my "trips!" Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike From camera_lumina at hotmail.com Sun Feb 9 12:08:25 2003 From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden) Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 15:08:25 -0500 Subject: DOJ quietly drafts USA Patriot II w/crypto-in-a-crime penalty Message-ID: "I always thought that breathing during the commission of a crime should result in an extra five to ten years in prison." Or, failure to inform authorities of your specific plans to commit a crime should result in an additional 5 to 10. -TD >From: Declan McCullagh >To: Greg Newby >CC: cypherpunks at lne.com >Subject: Re: DOJ quietly drafts USA Patriot II w/crypto-in-a-crime penalty >Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 14:13:24 -0500 > >On Sat, Feb 08, 2003 at 10:36:35PM -0500, Greg Newby wrote: > > "Under the new law, running shoes will be classified > > as burgler's tools if their use is not authorized or > > exceeds reasonable levels for leisure activity." > >I always thought that breathing during the commission of a crime should >result in an extra five to ten years in prison. > >At least. > >-Declan _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From camera_lumina at hotmail.com Sun Feb 9 12:18:03 2003 From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden) Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 15:18:03 -0500 Subject: Forced Oaths to Pieces of Cloth Message-ID: Bill Frantz wrote... "Except for the fact that one should not trust pledges that are made under coercion, I am reasonably comfortable with this edited version. It expresses the ideal nation that I wish the United States would become." Well, this is probably a lot better than nothing, particularly for a young person. But for someone older I would suggest that this is, to some extent, a dodge. Why? Because who is it you are pledging TO? The notion of the Pledge of Alleigiance as we know it is a public proclamation of one's affinities. And in this case, if no one in authority can make out that certain portions of the Pledge are not being stated, then I would argue that not stating them is almost as good as useless. It's kind of like a kid crossing his fingers behind his back while telling a promise, to negate the "lie" of the promise. -TD >From: Bill Frantz >To: cypherpunks at lne.com >Subject: Re: Forced Oaths to Pieces of Cloth >Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 10:57:14 -0800 > >At 6:55 AM -0800 2/9/03, Sunder wrote: > >And also freedom of religion. Forcing someone to say "Under God" for > >example. > >Back in the dark ages (the 1950s, and don't anyone get nostalgic for them), >when the phrase "under god" was added to the pledge, I was a student in >school. From what they had taught me, I knew then that this addition >violated the establishment of religion clause. The solution I devised was >to simply remain silent when this phrase was said. > >Unfortunately having started to question the relation between the pledge >and the ideals of the country, I started to wonder why I was pledging to >the flag, instead of the country. So over the years, I have a somewhat >edited version (removed parts in brackets): > > I pledge allegiance to [the flag of] the United States of America > [and to the republic for which it stands], one nation [under god], > indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. > >Except for the fact that one should not trust pledges that are made under >coercion, I am reasonably comfortable with this edited version. It >expresses the ideal nation that I wish the United States would become. > >Cheers - Bill > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Bill Frantz | Due process for all | Periwinkle -- Consulting >(408)356-8506 | used to be the Ameican | 16345 Englewood Ave. >frantz at pwpconsult.com | way. | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From rah at shipwright.com Sun Feb 9 17:25:04 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 20:25:04 -0500 Subject: Modern Day Xeno: Moore's "Law" Doesn't Exist Message-ID: http://firstmonday.org/issues/issue7_11/tuomi/index.html First Monday The Lives and Death of Moore's Law by Ilkka Tuomi Abstract Moore's Law has been an important benchmark for developments in microelectronics and information processing for over three decades. During this time, its applications and interpretations have proliferated and expanded, often far beyond the validity of the original assumptions made by Moore. Technical considerations of optimal chip manufacturing costs have been expanded to processor performance, economics of computing, and social development. It is therefore useful to review the various interpretations of Moore's Law and empirical evidence that could support them. Such an analysis reveals that semiconductor technology has evolved during the last four decades under very special economic conditions. In particular, the rapid development of microelectronics implies that economic and social demand has played a limited role in this industry. Contrary to popular claims, it appears that the common versions of Moore's Law have not been valid during the last decades. As semiconductors are becoming important in economy and society, Moore's Law is now becoming an increasingly misleading predictor of future developments. Contents 1. Introduction 2. Moore's original formulation 3. Reformulations of Moore's Law 4. Losing the memory 5. Empirical evidence on Moore's Law 6. Computers and development 1. Introduction In 1965, Gordon Moore, Director of Fairchild Semiconductor's Research and Development Laboratories, wrote an article on the future development of semiconductor industry for the 35th anniversary issue of Electronics magazine. In the article, Moore noted that the complexity of minimum cost semiconductor components had doubled per year since the first prototype microchip was produced in 1959. This exponential increase in the number of components on a chip became later known as Moore's Law. In the 1980s, Moore's Law started to be described as the doubling of number of transistors on a chip every 18 months. At the beginning of the 1990s, Moore's Law became commonly interpreted as the doubling of microprocessor power every 18 months. In the 1990s, Moore's Law became widely associated with the claim that computing power at fixed cost is doubling every 18 months. Moore's Law has mainly been used to highlight the rapid change in information processing technologies. The growth in chip complexity and fast reduction in manufacturing costs have meant that technological advances have become important factors in economic, organizational, and social change. In fact, during the last decades a good first approximation for long-range planning has often been that information processing capacity is essentially free and technical possibilities are unlimited. Regular doubling means exponential growth. Exponential growth, however, also means that the fundamental physical limits of microelectronics are approaching rapidly. Several observers have therefore speculated about the possibility of "the end of Moore's Law." Often these speculations have concluded by noting that Moore's Law will probably be valid for at least "a few more generations of technology," or about a decade. An important example is the International Technology Roadmap for Semiconductors (ITRS), which now extends to 2016. This roadmap is generated by a global group of experts and represents their consensus. Although it notes that within the next 10-15 years "most of the known technological capabilities will approach or have reached their limits," its basic assumption is that Moore's Law, although perhaps slowing down, still provides a good basis for predicting future developments in the semiconductor industry (ITRS, 2001) [ 1]. Of course, if Moore's Law is valid, independent of the exact nature of physical limits, exponential development means that the limits are only a few technological generations ahead. Order of magnitude errors in our current estimates of the ultimate limits of chip technology will create at most a few months of error in the time when they become bottlenecks in chip technology [ 2]. As a result, it is easy to predict that Moore's Law will become invalid soon. Speculations on the extended lifetime of Moore's Law are therefore often centered on quantum computing, bio-computing, DNA computers, and other theoretically possible information processing mechanisms. Such extensions, obviously, extend beyond semiconductor industry and the domain of Moore's Law. Indeed, it could be difficult to define a "component" or a "chip" in those future devices. Although discussion on physical limits, bottlenecks, and alternative information processing models may be important for chip manufacturers, it is, however, not the focus of this paper. Instead, I shall argue that there is no end to Moore's Law in sight simply because it never accurately described developments in microelectronics. It never was valid. Furthermore, it neglected factors that are becoming increasingly visible and important. The present paper argues that Moore's Law has not been a driver in the development of microelectronics or information technology. This may come as a surprise to some who have learned that Moore's Law has become a self-fulfilling prophecy that semiconductor industry firms have to follow if they want to survive. Instead, I shall argue that technical development in semiconductors during the last four decades has reflected the unique economic and social conditions under which the semiconductor industry has operated. This is important as these conditions are changing. In short, the observed technological trends and their analysis indicate that the semiconductor industry has been a core element in an industry cluster where development to an important extent has been driven by intra-cluster forces. The semiconductor industry, in other words, has been a laboratory of endogenous growth. This laboratory of endogenous growth has also made many failed experiments. Technology has not evolved in the ways predicted by Moore. Moore's Law has become popular partly because it has allowed great flexibility in interpretation and selective choice of supporting data. In this process, Moore's Law and evidence for it have retrospectively been interpreted to establish the validity of the Law. Often the presented evidence has been in visible contradiction with the Law. Technological advances in silicon chips have been relatively independent of end-user needs. During the last three decades, a good approximation in this industry has been that the supply of technology determines development. In economic terms, a key factor underlying the rapid development of semiconductor technology has been a continuous imbalance between supply and demand. It is, however, also clear that no one has exactly been breaking Moore's Law. Strictly speaking there is no such Law. Most discussions that quote Moore's Law are historically inaccurate and extend its scope far beyond available empirical evidence. Indeed, sociologically Moore's Law is a fascinating case of how myths are manufactured in the modern society and how such myths rapidly propagate into scientific articles, speeches of leading industrialists, and government policy reports around the world. It is therefore useful to revisit the evolution of Moore's Law. During its lifetime, its interpretations have involved mainly technical and economic considerations. The following discussion will therefore combine historical, technical, and economic concepts and data. The paper is organized as follows. In the next section, I revisit the original formulation of the Moore's Law and describe its basic assumptions. Section 3 discusses the revisions that Moore made to his original formulation during the 1970s. Section 4 describes the extensions of Moore's Law that became dominant in the 1980s and 1990s. Section 5 then evaluates available evidence to see whether any of the proposed formulations of Moore's Law can be justified. Its subsections review evidence on component counts, microprocessor performance, increase in computing power, and quality-adjusted cost of computing. Section 6 then briefly discusses industrial dynamics that underlie technical development in semiconductors and information processing, and points out some reasons why Moore's Law is becoming increasingly misleading in forecasting future developments in information processing technology. The paper concludes with some general observations on the relation between technical, economic, and social development. -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From sunder at sunder.net Sun Feb 9 17:40:43 2003 From: sunder at sunder.net (Sunder) Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 20:40:43 -0500 (est) Subject: My favorite line from the DOJ's latest draft bill In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030209141202.01600818@mail.well.com> Message-ID: My new favorite is how Rumsfeld just said that the Europe Delay to give the inspectors more time will INCREASE the chance of war.... Uh huh... http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,78003,00.html My, my, how the reptiles have evolved the ability to speak out both sides of their mouth... or more aptly put out of another orifice better fitted to the application of toilet paper. ----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--------------------------- + ^ + :NSA got $20Bil/year |Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\ \|/ :and didn't stop 9-11|share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\ <--*-->:Instead of rewarding|monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/ /|\ :their failures, we |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/ + v + :should get refunds! |site, and you must change them very often. --------_sunder_ at _sunder_._net_------- http://www.sunder.net ------------ On Sun, 9 Feb 2003, Declan McCullagh wrote: > http://www.dailyrotten.com/source-docs/patriot2draft.html > terrorism is at least as dangerous to the United States' national security > as drug offenses From bill.stewart at pobox.com Sun Feb 9 22:44:20 2003 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 22:44:20 -0800 Subject: DOJ quietly drafts USA Patriot II w/crypto-in-a-crime penalty In-Reply-To: <20030209141324.A8569@cluebot.com> References: <20030209033634.GA23201@ils.unc.edu> <20030207221053.B14262@cluebot.com> <20030209033634.GA23201@ils.unc.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030209224357.0d95f8d0@idiom.com> At 02:13 PM 02/09/2003 -0500, Declan McCullagh wrote: >On Sat, Feb 08, 2003 at 10:36:35PM -0500, Greg Newby wrote: > > "Under the new law, running shoes will be classified > > as burgler's tools if their use is not authorized or > > exceeds reasonable levels for leisure activity." > >I always thought that breathing during the commission of a crime should >result in an extra five to ten years in prison. And breathing _heavily_ gets you even more.... From DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk Sun Feb 9 14:50:35 2003 From: DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk (Dave Howe) Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 22:50:35 -0000 Subject: Putting the "NSA Data Overwrite Standard" Legend to Death... (fwd) References: Message-ID: <015101c2d08d$aad754c0$01c8a8c0@davehowe> Jim Choate wrote: > On Sat, 8 Feb 2003, Sunder wrote: >> In real life this will not work as most Windoze hard disk encryption >> schemes can't encrypt the OS disk - and this is where the temp/cache >> stuff goes. Not always - certainly, windows cache goes to a partition that must be available at windows startup - but webbrowser cache can happily live on an encrypted disk (I have done this many times) Further, there is always the Drivecrypt pluspack which mounts an encrypted volume before windoze starts, and hands over to windoze as it comes up (I believe the same mechanism is used as for doublespaced drives, but I can't be sure; drivecrypt is closed source, hence I refuse to use it) >> At least with a unixish OS you can mount your crypto file systems up >> at boot time before the OS really starts up (before the system goes >> to multi-user mode for example (at the end of /etc/rc1.d and before >> the rc2.d init starts.) > Which is a blind path since those files -must- be unencrypted and if > they do mount the disk they have to have access to the key to > unencrypt the fs hence you're in the same boat as with Winblows. At least in theory a lilo boot could mount an encrypted partition while still in the initrd stage; as crypto support is moved into the kernel, I expect to see this become an available option. From DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk Sun Feb 9 15:27:45 2003 From: DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk (Dave Howe) Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 23:27:45 -0000 Subject: Putting the "NSA Data Overwrite Standard" Legend to Death... (fwd) References: Message-ID: <01b901c2d092$dba63260$01c8a8c0@davehowe> Jim Choate wrote: > Yes, it can mount the partition. That isn't the problem. The problem > is that for lilo to do this it has to have access to the key in > plaintext. That makes the entire exercise moot. not if you have to type it every time. if you take that as criteria, then *all* encryption is moot, as I can't think of any you don't have to supply a key or passphrase for. you could also have lilo look at a dongle (a usb drive, say) for its key. From DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk Sun Feb 9 16:58:34 2003 From: DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk (Dave Howe) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 00:58:34 -0000 Subject: Putting the "NSA Data Overwrite Standard" Legend to Death... (fwd) References: Message-ID: <027201c2d09f$8bc339c0$01c8a8c0@davehowe> Jim Choate wrote: > On Sun, 9 Feb 2003, Dave Howe wrote: > >> Jim Choate wrote: >>> Yes, it can mount the partition. That isn't the problem. The problem >>> is that for lilo to do this it has to have access to the key in >>> plaintext. That makes the entire exercise moot. >> not if you have to type it every time. > Then I'd say lilo isn't mounting it, you are. no, lilo is. if you you can mount a pgpdisk (say) without software, then you are obviously much more talented than I am :) for virtual drives, the real question is at what point in the boot process you can mount a drive - if it is not until the os is fully functional, then you are unable to protect the os itself. if the bootstrap process can mount the drive before the os is functional, then you *can* protect the os. Win9x uses dos as its bootstrap (and drivespace gives a good example of a virtual drive system that can hand over to a 32bit driver as the os starts). lilo *could* kick a virtual drive into existence during the kernel boot, given such a driver and some patches to both kernel and lilo itself. that it would need a password from somewhere during this process is both obvious and not a major issue. From eresrch at eskimo.com Mon Feb 10 07:44:27 2003 From: eresrch at eskimo.com (Mike Rosing) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 07:44:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: My favorite line from the DOJ's latest draft bill In-Reply-To: <20030210151944.GA3600@cybershamanix.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Feb 2003, Harmon Seaver wrote: > Probably what they're most scared of are drugs that open the sheeple's > minds. Psychedelics expose the nakedness of the emperor and break open the most > rigid lockstep mentality. Yup, leading robots is so much more fun than actually doing something useful. At least for 9 year olds anyway :-) I'm not so sure this emperor could handle psycedelics. Might break the robotic connections :-) Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike From eresrch at eskimo.com Mon Feb 10 07:50:25 2003 From: eresrch at eskimo.com (Mike Rosing) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 07:50:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: The Space Shuttle's Secret Military Mission In-Reply-To: <132.1a594fb5.2b78a150@aol.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 GaryJeffers at aol.com wrote: > > http://www.aci.net/kalliste/columbia_spectral.htm I love conspiricy theory! Take totally unrelated stuff, mix it together and voila - instant evil! The problem with this article is that it uses a reference (to a really cool idea BTW) for a nuclear *rocket engine* and then claims that this is an *actual* power supply! It's totally bogus dude. But thanks for the reference to the rocket engine, I need to read that paper! Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike From hseaver at cybershamanix.com Mon Feb 10 07:19:44 2003 From: hseaver at cybershamanix.com (Harmon Seaver) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:19:44 -0600 Subject: My favorite line from the DOJ's latest draft bill In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030209141202.01600818@mail.well.com> Message-ID: <20030210151944.GA3600@cybershamanix.com> On Sun, Feb 09, 2003 at 02:43:22PM -0800, Mike Rosing wrote: > On Sun, 9 Feb 2003, Declan McCullagh wrote: > > > http://www.dailyrotten.com/source-docs/patriot2draft.html > > terrorism is at least as dangerous to the United States' national security > > as drug offenses > > That's a good find! People sitting around laughing their butts off is > really a dangerous phenomena! Just like the killing of 3000 people! > > I want the drugs those guys have, there's no view of reality warped quite > that bad I've ever seen on of my "trips!" > Probably what they're most scared of are drugs that open the sheeple's minds. Psychedelics expose the nakedness of the emperor and break open the most rigid lockstep mentality. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com From rah at shipwright.com Mon Feb 10 07:22:55 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 10:22:55 -0500 Subject: Bingo! Why Bearer-Settled Recursive Auction Markets will work (was re:[NEC] 2.3: Power Laws, Weblogs, and Inequality) Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Remember Eric Hughes' "institutionalized" digital piracy market, and, before him, the Agoric guys, and their Digital Silk Road stuff? Remember what I said about how, in such a market, the people who made the *new* stuff first would make the most money, about the first copy being the most valuable? Read this, and then go look at the charts on the web. It's important. Now, think about a bearer-settled cash auction of the first copies of new content into a napster-like network. Remember that each cryptographically-authenticated (I dislike the word "signed", I agree with Perry Metzger and Carl Ellison; "signature" doesn't mean what it says) copy is fungible. It's the same as any other. Thus, the market, like all commodity markets, is operating, in an economic terms of art, under perfect competition. I'd always thought that the price curve in hops from the original source and, in time from a given product's introduction to the net, would look like power curves, or maybe a gamma distribution, but, in Clay's article below, here's proof, or at least as much proof as we're going to get until we actually do it. I expect that the propagation rates of these markets are going to be *very* fast, which follows from the speed with which information flows through the net. Seen in three dimensions, with the charts laid on top of each other we get something that looks like what happens after a water drop hits a smooth pond. This idea of recursive auction markets across a geodesic network is, for the most part, a fundamental indictment of the very economic efficacy of copyright on a geodesic network. In getting what people want for what they're most willing to pay for it, for the lowest cost of production and distribution, this kind of market will make more money, faster, for the *producers* of content, and will adequately compensate the *distributors* of content (people who continually resell their copies to the highest bidders, of course :-)), while, at the same time, not requiring monitoring the entire system by a single entity. Like Gilmore said about censorship, if there's cash and an auction mechanism, the network will finally see copyright as damage and route around it. Cheers, RAH - --- begin forwarded text User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.0.2006 To: From: nec-admin at shirky.com Subject: [NEC] 2.3: Power Laws, Weblogs, and Inequality Sender: nec-admin at shirky.com Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 12:54:00 -0500 Status: R NEC @ Shirky.com, a mailing list about Networks, Economics, and Culture Published periodically / # 2.3 / February 8, 2003 Licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License Subscribe at http://shirky.com/nec.html In this issue: - Introduction - Essay: Power Laws, Weblogs, and Inequality (Also at http://www.shirky.com/writings/powerlaw_weblog.html) - Reader feedback on The Big Flip: I was wrong - The O'Reilly Emerging Technology Conference * Introduction ======================================================= This issue's essay is on the inevitability of power laws in social systems, and in particular in the weblog world. I have lived through a decade of seeing social systems on the internet start small and egalitarian and grow large and unequal, and every time it has happened, some of the users of the system have taken it upon themselves to complain that the the Old Guard had gotten cliquish, or that the newbies were not living up to what was expected of them, or [insert psychological explanation here.] These explanations, focussed as they were on individual behaviors, never seemed to me to be adequate to describe what was obviously structural change that happened to all kinds of systems. Recently, work by Barabasi, Huberman, and Watts have all pointed to ways in which power law distributions, where the rank of the Nth item is 1/Nth that of the first item, arise in social systems. The structural inevitability of power laws explain these kinds of inequalities in social systems far better than any explanation focussed on the actions of individual members of the system. One note: the essay includes three figures, accompanying this mail as attachments, but it may be easier to read on the web, at http://www.shirky.com/writings/powerlaw_weblog.html. Also, because inbound spam to the list is now so extreme, I have a choice between working from home enlarging my genitals with HGH while waiting for my check from Nigeria to clear, or auto-flushing inbound mail. Much to the disappointment of Madame Abacha, I am taking the latter course of action, so if you have a response to something you read here, please respond to me directly, at clay at shirky dot com. - -clay * Essay ============================================================== Weblogs, Power Laws, and Inequality (http://www.shirky.com/writings/powerlaw_weblog.html) A persistent theme among people writing about the social aspects of weblogging is to note [http://www.fawny.org/decon-blog.html] (and usually lament [http://onepotmeal.com/blog/archives/001178.html]) the rise of an A-list, a small set of webloggers who account for a majority of the traffic in the weblog world. This complaint follows a common pattern we've seen with MUDs, BBSes, and online communities like Echo and the WELL. A new social system starts, and seems delightfully free of the elitism and cliquishness of the existing systems. Then, as the new system grows, problems of scale set in. Not everyone can participate in every conversation. Not everyone gets to be heard. Some core group seems more connected than the rest of us, and so on. Prior to recent theoretical work on social networks, the usual explanations invoked individual behaviors: some members of the community had sold out, the spirit of the early days was being diluted by the newcomers, et cetera. We now know that these explanations are wrong, or at least beside the point. What matters is this: Diversity plus freedom of choice creates inequality, and the greater the diversity, the more extreme the inequality. In systems where many people are free to choose between many options, a small subset of the whole will get a disproportionate amount of traffic (or attention, or income), even if no members of the system actively work towards such an outcome. This has nothing to do with moral weakness, selling out, or any other psychological explanation. The very act of choosing, spread widely enough and freely enough, creates a power law distribution. - - A Predictable Imbalance Power law distributions, the shape that has spawned a number of catch-phrases like the 80/20 Rule and the Winner-Take-All Society, are finally being understood clearly enough to be useful. For much of the last century, investigators have been finding power law distributions in human systems. The economist Vilfredo Pareto observed that wealth follows a "predictable imbalance", with 20% of the population holding 80% of the wealth [http://bently.com/articles/999pareto.asp]. The linguist George Zipf observed that word frequency falls in a power law pattern [http://linkage.rockefeller.edu/wli/zipf/], with a small number of high frequency words (I, of, the), a moderate number of common words (book, cat cup), and a huge number of low frequency words (peripatetic, hypognathous). Jacob Nielsen observed power law distributions in web site page views, and so on. [http://www.useit.com/alertbox/zipf.html] We are all so used to bell curve distributions that power law distributions can seem odd. The shape of Figure #1, several hundred blogs ranked by number of inbound links, is roughly a power law distribution. Of the 433 listed blogs, the top two sites accounted for fully 5% of the inbound links between them. (They were InstaPundit and Andrew Sullivan, unsurprisingly.) The top dozen (less than 3% of the total) accounted for 20% of the inbound links, and the top 50 blogs (not quite 12%) accounted for 50% of such links. http://www.shirky.com/writings/powerlaw/figure1.gif Figure #1: 433 weblogs arranged in rank order by number of inbound links. The data is drawn from N.Z Bear's 2002 work on the blogosphere ecosystem [http://www.truthlaidbear.com/ecosystem.shtml], a project that is now sadly defunct. The inbound link data is just an example: power law distributions are ubiquitous. Yahoo Groups mailing lists ranked by subscribers is a power law distribution. (Figure #2) LiveJournal users ranked by friends is a power law. (Figure #3) The traffic to this article will be a power law, with a tiny percentage of the sites sending most of the traffic. If you run a website with more than a couple dozen pages, pick any time period where the traffic amounted to at least 1000 page views, and you will find that both the page views themselves and the traffic from the referring sites will follow power laws. http://www.shirky.com/writings/powerlaw/figure2.gif Figure #2: All mailing lists in the Yahoo Groups Television category, ranked by number of subscribers (Data from September 2002.) http://www.shirky.com/writings/powerlaw/figure3.gif Figure #3: LiveJournal users ranked by number of friends listed. (Data from March 2002) - - Rank Hath Its Privileges The basic shape is simple - in any system sorted by rank, the value for the Nth position will be 1/N. For whatever is being ranked -- income, links, traffic -- the value of second place will be half that of first place, and tenth place will be one-tenth of first place. (There are other, more complex formulae that make the slope more or less extreme, but they all relate to this curve.) We've seen this shape in many systems. What've we've been lacking, until recently, is a theory to go with these observed patterns. Now, thanks to a series of breakthroughs in network theory by researchers like Albert-Lazlo Barabasi [http://www.nd.edu/~alb/], Duncan Watts [http://smallworld.sociology.columbia.edu/watts.html], and Bernardo Huberman [http://www.hpl.hp.com/shl/people/huberman/], among others, breakthroughs being described in books like Linked [http://isbn.nu/0738206679], Six Degrees [http://isbn.nu/0393041425], and The Laws of the Web [http://isbn.nu/0262083035], we know that power law distributions tend to arise in social systems where many people express their preferences among many options. We also know that as the number of options rise, the curve becomes more extreme. This is a counter-intuitive finding -- most of us would expect a rising number of choices to flatten the curve, but in fact, increasing the size of the system increases the gap between the #1 spot and the median spot. A second counter-intuitive aspect of power laws is that most elements in a power law system are below average, because the curve is so heavily weighted towards the top performers. In Figure #1, the average number of inbound links (cumulative links divided by the number of blogs) is 31. The first blog below 31 links is 142nd on the list, meaning two-thirds of the listed blogs have a below average number of inbound links. We are so used to the evenness of the bell curve, where the median position has the average value, that the idea of two-thirds of a population being below average sounds strange. (The actual median, 217th of 433, has only 15 inbound links.) - - Freedom of Choice Makes Stars Inevitable To see how freedom of choice could create such unequal distributions, consider a hypothetical population of a thousand people, each picking their 10 favorite blogs. One way to model such a system is simply to assume that each person has an equal chance of liking each blog. This distribution would be basically flat -- most blogs will have the same number of people listing it as a favorite. A few blogs will be more popular than average and a few less, of course, but that will be statistical noise. The bulk of the blogs will be of average popularity, and the highs and lows will not be too far different from this average. In this model, neither the quality of the writing nor other people's choices have any effect. In this model, there are no shared tastes, no preferred genres, no effects from marketing or recommendations from friends. But people's choices do affect one another. If we assume that any blog chosen by one user is more likely, by even a fractional amount, to be chosen by another user, the system changes dramatically. Alice, the first user, chooses her blogs unaffected by anyone else, but Bob has a slightly higher chance of liking Alice's blogs than the others. When Bob is done, any blog that both he and Alice like has a higher chance of being picked by Carmen, and so on, with a small number of blogs becoming increasingly likely to be chosen in the future because they were chosen in the past. Think of this positive feedback as a preference premium. The system assumes that later users come into an environment shaped by earlier users; the thousand-and-first user will not be selecting blogs at random, but will rather be affected, even if unconsciously, by the preference premiums built up in the system previously. Note that this model is absolutely mute as to why one blog might be preferred over another. Perhaps some writing is simply better than average (a preference for quality), perhaps people want the recom- mendations of others (a preference for marketing), perhaps there is value in reading the same blogs as your friends (a preference for "solidarity goods", things best enjoyed by a group). It could be all three, or some other effect entirely, and it could be different for different readers and different writers. What matters is that any tendency towards agreement in diverse and free systems, however small and for whatever reason, can create power law distributions. Because it arises naturally, changing this distribution would mean forcing hundreds of thousands of bloggers to link to certain blogs and to de-link others, which would require both global oversight and the application of force. Reversing the star system would mean destroying the village in order to save it. - - Inequality and Fairness Given the ubiquity of power law distributions, asking whether there inequality in the weblog world (or indeed almost any social system) is the wrong question, since the answer will always be yes. The question to ask is "Is the inequality fair?" Four things suggest that the current inequality is mostly fair. The first, of course, is the freedom in the weblog world in general. It costs nothing to launch a weblog, and there is no vetting process, so the threshold for having a weblog is only infinitesimally larger than the threshold for getting online in the first place. The second is that blogging is a daily activity. As beloved as Josh Marshall (www.TalkingPointsMemo.com) or Mark Pilgrim (www.DiveIntoMark.com) are, they would disappear if they stopped writing, or even cut back significantly. Blogs are not a good place to rest on your laurels. Third, the stars exist not because of some cliquish preference for one another, but because of the preference of hundreds of others pointing to them. Their popularity is a result of the kind of distributed approval it would be hard to fake. Finally, there is no real A-list, because there is no discontinuity. Though explanations of power laws (including the ones here) often focus on numbers like "12% of blogs account for 50% of the links", these are arbitrary markers. The largest step function in a power law is between the #1 and #2 positions, by definition. There is no A-list that is qualitatively different from their nearest neighbors, so any line separating more and less trafficked blogs is arbitrary. - - The Median Cannot Hold However, though the inequality is mostly fair now, the system is still young. Once a power law distribution exists, it can take on a certain amount of homeostasis, the tendency of a system to retain its form even against external pressures. Is the weblog world such a system? Are there people who are as talented or deserving as the current stars, but who are not getting anything like the traffic? Doubtless. Will this problem get worse in the future? Yes. Though there are more new bloggers and more new readers every day, most of the new readers are adding to the traffic of the top few blogs, while most new blogs are getting below average traffic, a gap that will grow as the weblog world. It's not impossible to launch a good new blog and become widely read, but it's harder than it was last year, and it will be harder still next year. At some point (probably one we've already passed), weblog technology will be seen as a platform for so many forms of publishing, filtering, aggregation, and syndication that blogging will stop referring to any particularly coherent activity. The term 'blog' will fall into the middle distance, as 'home page' and 'portal' have, words that used to mean some concrete thing, but which were stretched by use past the point of meaning. This will happen when head and tail of the power law distribution become so different that we can't think of J. Random Blogger and Glenn Reynolds of InstaPundit.com as doing the same thing. At the head will be webloggers who join the mainstream media (a phrase which seems to mean "media we've gotten used to.") The transformation here is simple - as a blogger's audience grows large, more people read her work than she can possibly read, she can't link to everyone who wants her attention, and she can't answer all her incoming mail or follow up to the comments on her site. The result of these pressures is that she becomes a broadcast outlet, distributing material without participating in conversations about it. Meanwhile, the long tail of weblogs with few readers will become conversational. In a world where most bloggers get below average traffic, audience size can't be the only metric for success. LiveJournal had this figured out years ago, by assuming that people would be writing for their friends, rather than some impersonal audience. Publishing an essay and having 3 random people read it is a recipe for disappointment, but publishing an account of your Saturday night and having your 3 closest friends read it feels like a conversation, especially if they follow up with their own accounts. LiveJournal has an edge on most other blogging platforms because it can keep far better track of friend and group relationships, but the rise of general blog tools like Trackback may enable this conversational mode for most blogs. In between blogs-as-mainstream-media and blogs-as-dinner-conversation will be Blogging Classic, blogs published by one or a few people, for a moderately-sized audience, with whom the authors have a relatively engaged relationship. Because of the continuing growth of the weblog world, more blogs in the future will follow this pattern than today. However, these blogs will be in the minority for both traffic (dwarfed by the mainstream media blogs) and overall number of blogs (outnum- bered by the conversational blogs.) Inequality occurs in large and unconstrained social systems for the same reasons stop-and-go traffic occurs on busy roads, not because it is anyone's goal, but because it is a reliable property that emerges from the normal functioning of the system. The relatively egalitarian distribution of readers in the early years had nothing to do with the nature of weblogs or webloggers. There just weren't enough blogs to have really unequal distributions. Now there are. - -=- * End ==================================================================== This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License. The licensor permits others to copy, distribute, display, and perform the work. In return, licensees must give the original author credit. To view a copy of this license, visit http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/1.0 or send a letter to Creative Commons, 559 Nathan Abbott Way, Stanford, California 94305, USA. 2003, Clay Shirky - --- end forwarded text -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 8.0 - not licensed for commercial use: www.pgp.com iQA/AwUBPkfBBcPxH8jf3ohaEQIdIgCg3RMXI9B1ru5YcEpXU8iPEUwghuIAnixX do40shJI2PSt5bD/KS4zINGq =1gs6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From emc at artifact.psychedelic.net Mon Feb 10 10:47:30 2003 From: emc at artifact.psychedelic.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 10:47:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: The Space Shuttle's Secret Military Mission In-Reply-To: from "Mike Rosing" at Feb 10, 2003 07:50:25 AM Message-ID: <200302101847.h1AIlUw30274@artifact.psychedelic.net> Mike Rosing writes: > I love conspiricy theory! Take totally unrelated stuff, mix it together > and voila - instant evil! The article is total nonsense. For instance, Americium-242 has a half life of 150 years, and decays through isomeric transition. It looks like disinformation trawled under the nose of www.whatreallyhappened.com, so that if they ever publish anything which pisses off "They Who Can Not Be Criticized," the article can be pointed to as an example of idiocy which has appeared on the site. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From tcmay at got.net Mon Feb 10 10:56:45 2003 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 10:56:45 -0800 Subject: Trap guns, black baggers, and "Arlington Road" In-Reply-To: <00f801c2d0fa$5b1fb040$c71121c2@sharpuk.co.uk> Message-ID: <66DF06BA-3D29-11D7-9DBF-0050E439C473@got.net> On Monday, February 10, 2003, at 03:25 AM, David Howe wrote: > The solution is only applicable to cold or moderately tamper-proofed > systems, to prevent analysis of such systems if confiscated. It can > only > become a serious component in an overall scheme, but this is > universally > true - there is no magic shield you can fit to *anything* to solve all > ills; this will add protection against the specified attacks and in > fact > already exists for windows (drivecrypt pluspack) - it is just > non-windoze platforms that lack a product in this area. With USAPATRIOT and HOMESEC REICHSPROTEKTION acts authorizing black bag jobs, break-ins, planting of evidence, keystroke-logging, administrative rubber-stamp warrants (no judge, just a GS-8 or higher saying "Go for it!'), it's time to revisit the issue of trap guns and booby traps. How about an audio warning to computer tamperers? "You have 10 seconds to clear the area before this computer detonates." Then, at the nearest door or sliding glass window, a rigged shotgun to decapitate those furiously trying to escape. (For safety reasons, interlock the shotgun or detcord with the alarms on the computer.) I expect the increase in black bag entries and break-ins is going to produce a few major court cases soon. What happens when a homeowner surprises a covert entry team in his house and a gunfight ensue? (With no warrant being shown to the homeowner, he cannot be said to have knowledge (scienter) that the apparent burglars or home invaders were actually "authorized.") A similar theme was in the Cypherpunks-required film "Arlington Road" a few years back. (Check your video store, though I don't see it often on cable or in the DVD bins, so it may have been deemed by the studio to be too close to the truth for public consumption.) A so-called "white power" compound is being trespassed-upon by BATFags and narcs, sneaking up on the compound without display of a search or arrest warrant. The residents think they are being attacked and start shooting. Many agents die. (Of course, at the end of "Arlington Road" even more evil doers are eradicated. Recommended before a trip to the desert to shoot.) --Tim May "That the said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." --Samuel Adams From ptrei at rsasecurity.com Mon Feb 10 08:09:45 2003 From: ptrei at rsasecurity.com (Trei, Peter) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 11:09:45 -0500 Subject: Forced Oaths to Pieces of Cloth Message-ID: > Bill Frantz[SMTP:frantz at pwpconsult.com] [...] > Unfortunately having started to question the relation between the pledge > and the ideals of the country, I started to wonder why I was pledging to > the flag, instead of the country. So over the years, I have a somewhat > edited version (removed parts in brackets): [...] One interesting variation {and a suggestion of an alternative) comes from naval diplomacy. When there's an official US/UK naval dinner, toasts are drunk (at least on shore or on British ships - I think US ships are dry). The Americans always toast the British Monarch. The Brits in return propose a toast to the US Constitution. While I have a lot of problem with the Pledge in any form, I think it would be greatly improved if it were made to the Constitution, rather than the flag. Peter Trei From DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk Mon Feb 10 03:18:34 2003 From: DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk (David Howe) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 11:18:34 -0000 Subject: Putting the "NSA Data Overwrite Standard" Legend to Death... (fwd) References: Message-ID: <00f701c2d0fa$5af4f6c0$c71121c2@sharpuk.co.uk> at Monday, February 10, 2003 3:09 AM, Jim Choate was seen to say: > On Mon, 10 Feb 2003, Dave Howe wrote: >> no, lilo is. if you you can mount a pgpdisk (say) without software, >> then you are obviously much more talented than I am :) > Bullshit. lilo isn't doing -anything- at that point without somebody > or something (eg dongle) being present that has the -plaintext- key. > Without the key the disk isn't doing anything. So no, lilo isn't > mounting the partition. It -is- a tool to do the mount. I don't understand why this concept is so difficult for you - software *must* perform the mount; there is absolutely no way you could personally inspect every byte from the disk and pass decrypted data to the os at line speed yourself. lilo is the actor here. If you gave a program spec to a programmer and said "write this" you wouldn't be able to claim you wrote the code yourself, no matter how good or essential the program spec was. > As to mounting the disk without software, not a problem it could be > done all in hardware. Though you'd still need the passphrase/dongle. you couldn't *mount* a disk in hardware; you *could* decrypt on-the-fly and make the physical disk look like a unencrypted one, but you would still need non-crypto software to mount it. >> for virtual drives, the real question is at what point in the boot >> process you can mount a drive - if it is not until the os is fully >> functional, then you are unable to protect the os itself. if the >> bootstrap process can mount the drive before the os is functional, >> then you *can* protect the os. > No you can't. If the drive is mounted before the OS is loaded you can > put the system into a DMA state and read the disk (screw the OS) > since it's contents are now in plaintext. no, you can't. data from the hardware is *still* encrypted; only the output of the driver is decrypted, and a machine no longer running bootstrap or os is also incapable of decryption. you *could*, if good enough, place the processor in a halt state and use DMA to modify the code to reveal the plaintext, but it would be a major pain to do so and would require both physical access to the machine *while powered up and without triggering any anti-tamper switches* after the password has been supplied. This is actually a weakness in firmware cryptodrives (as I have seen advertised recently) - once the drive is "unlocked" it can usually be swapped over to another machine and the plaintext read. > You can also prevent the > default OS from being loaded as well. Indeed so, yes. however, usually that decision has to be made before the password would be entered - so making more awkward. you *could* finangle the bootstrap though; there must *always* be part of the code outside the crypto envelope (but of course this can be removable media such as the usb drive mentioned, and stored securely when not in use) > Clue: If you own the hardware, you own the software. indeed so. however, if that applied to machines not already running, the police wouldn't be so upset when they find encrypted files on seized hardware. From DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk Mon Feb 10 03:25:32 2003 From: DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk (David Howe) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 11:25:32 -0000 Subject: Putting the "NSA Data Overwrite Standard" Legend to Death... (fwd) References: Message-ID: <00f801c2d0fa$5b1fb040$c71121c2@sharpuk.co.uk> at Monday, February 10, 2003 3:20 AM, Jim Choate was seen to say: > On Sun, 9 Feb 2003, Sunder wrote: >> The OS doesn't boot until you type in your passphrase, plug in your >> USB fob, etc. and allow it to read the key. Like, Duh! You know, >> you really ought to stop smoking crack. > Spin doctor bullshit, you're not addressing the issue which is the > mounting of an encrypted partition -before- the OS loads (eg lilo, > which by the way doesn't really 'mount' a partition, encrypted or > otherwise - it just follows a vector to a boot image that gets dumped > into ram and the cpu gets a vector to execute it - one would hope it > was the -intended- OS or fs de-encryption algorithm). What does that > do? Nothing (unless you're the attacker). indeed. it usually boots a kernel image with whatever modules are required to get the main system up and running; > There are two and only two general applications for such an approach. > A standard workstation which isn't used unless there is a warm body > handy. The other being a server which one doesn't want to -reboot- > without human intervention. Both imply that the physical site is > -secure-, that is the weakness to all the current software solutions > along this line. The solution is only applicable to cold or moderately tamper-proofed systems, to prevent analysis of such systems if confiscated. It can only become a serious component in an overall scheme, but this is universally true - there is no magic shield you can fit to *anything* to solve all ills; this will add protection against the specified attacks and in fact already exists for windows (drivecrypt pluspack) - it is just non-windoze platforms that lack a product in this area. From emc at artifact.psychedelic.net Mon Feb 10 12:00:55 2003 From: emc at artifact.psychedelic.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 12:00:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: Trap guns, black baggers, and "Arlington Road" In-Reply-To: <66DF06BA-3D29-11D7-9DBF-0050E439C473@got.net> from "Tim May" at Feb 10, 2003 10:56:45 AM Message-ID: <200302102000.h1AK0t030427@artifact.psychedelic.net> Tim writes: > With USAPATRIOT and HOMESEC REICHSPROTEKTION acts authorizing black bag > jobs, break-ins, planting of evidence, keystroke-logging, > administrative rubber-stamp warrants (no judge, just a GS-8 or higher > saying "Go for it!'), it's time to revisit the issue of trap guns and > booby traps. Coincidentally, the news this morning reports on a home invasion in which a homeowner shot dead two of three members of an assault team that smashed into his condo and began firing. Details on the identities of the perps are being withheld from the news media pending further "investigation." http://www.dfw.com/mld/startelegram/news/local/states/texas/5021327.htm ----- Resident kills 2 condo intruders By Bill Miller Star-Telegram Dallas Bureau DALLAS - Gunfire erupted early Thursday morning when three men armed with pistols burst into a north Dallas condominium. Two of the intruders died when a resident returned fire, police said. Details were sketchy Thursday as Dallas homicide detectives investigated the shooting at the Kensington Square Apartments in the 15800 block of Knoll Trail Drive, just east of the North Dallas Tollway. Detectives said they were not yet ready to release the names of the people involved, only that the incident began around 9 a.m. in a condo that was occupied by the 29-year-old man, his wife and their three children. ... -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From mix at anon.lcs.mit.edu Mon Feb 10 07:20:26 2003 From: mix at anon.lcs.mit.edu (lcs Mixmaster Remailer) Date: 10 Feb 2003 15:20:26 -0000 Subject: Patriot II would outlaw encryption Message-ID: <20030210152026.13792.qmail@nym.alias.net> > actually......no....it isn't my bust. it is yours. > > it says: > > "knowingly and willfully uses > encryption technology to conceal any incriminating > communication" relating to a federal crime that they're > committing, or attempting to commit". > > Thus, after the fact.....I can send you an ecrypted email detailing my > crime and I won't be "upping the ante" another five years. Sure you will. The "ongoing conspiracy" (an agreement to commit a felony) continues after various events. For example, if Ted and Alice have an ongoing implicit understanding that they will meet in the shed behind her house occasionally to tend the five marijuana plants growing there, that is an ongoing conspiracy to commit a federal felony. So if, a week after Ted's last visit, Alice sends him an encrypted email saying "Come over and watch a video, or whatever", the prosecutor can clearly use that (if he can decrypt it) as 5 more years in prison, since it used encryption technology and concealed an incriminating communication (the crime being conspiracy) that they are commiting (ongoing). The prosecutors can get Ted's passphrase by granting him immunity (probably ONLY immunity from the encryption enhancement penalty, or best case, from that and conspiracy, still nailing him for the pot felony, or getting Alice to roll over on him for the whole deal!!!!) and forcing him to disclose it having eliminated his 5th amendment defenses. Then they have Alice for the pot felony, conspiracy, and the 5 year encryption booster. Of course, they will simply hang all of this draconian punishment over her head, her attorney will say they can fight for $75,000 and 2 years, during which she is in jail, or they can plead it out and become a felon with few further rights of citizenship. And if you "detail a crime" after the event in an encrypted communication, you've essentially included another person in the knowledge of a past crime in the expectation that such disclosure will remain secret from law enforcement. That is conspiracy to avoid prosecution and probably obstruction of justice. Conspiracy and obstruction are crimes, you've just used encryption in a federal felony, 5 year enhancement. Bye. For arguments re: protections from forced disclosure of keys, see http://www.rubberhose.org/current/src/doc/sergienko.html From eugen at leitl.org Mon Feb 10 10:49:18 2003 From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 19:49:18 +0100 (CET) Subject: [p2p-hackers] PET2003 (Mar 26-28) accepted papers (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 13:45:23 -0500 From: Roger Dingledine To: cryptography at wasabisystems.com, p2p-hackers at zgp.org, nymip-res-group at nymip.org Cc: freehaven-dev at freehaven.net, dcsb at ai.mit.edu Subject: [p2p-hackers] PET2003 (Mar 26-28) accepted papers The following papers have been accepted for presentation and publication at the 3rd Privacy Enhancing Technologies workshop, in Dresden Mar 26-28 this year. In addition, there will be several invited talks and/or panels. Please forward this mail to other relevant lists. See http://petworkshop.org/ for more details, including the rapidly approaching deadlines for stipends (February 16 -- available to non-authors too!) and registration (February 20). "Mix-networks with Restricted Routes" George Danezis "Generalising Mixes" Claudia Diaz, Andrei Serjantov "Modelling Unlinkability" Sandra Steinbrecher and Stefan K\"opsell "Metrics for Traffic Analysis Prevention" Richard E. Newman, Ira S. Moskowitz, Paul Syverson, Andrei Serjantov "Breaking and Mending Resilient Mix-nets" Lan Nguyen, Rei Safavi-Naini "Improving Onion Notation" Richard Clayton "Engineering Privacy in Public: Confounding Face Recognition" James Alexander and Jonathan Smith "From Privacy Legislation to Interface Design: Implementing Information Privacy in Human-Computer Interactions" Andrew S. Patrick, Stephen Kenny "Defeating Web Censorship with Untrusted Messenger Discovery" Nick Feamster, Magdalena Balazinska, Winston Wang, Hari Balakrishnan, David Karger "GAP -- Practical anonymous networking" Krista Bennett, Christian Grothoff "An Analysis of GNUnet and the Implications for Anonymous, Censorship-Resistant Networks" Dennis K\"ugler "A Component Architecture for Dynamically Managing Privacy Constraints in Personalized Web-based Systems" Alfred Kobsa "Privacy in Enterprise Identity Federation: Policies for Liberty Single Signon" Birgit Pfitzmann "From P3P to Data Licenses" Yuh-Jzer Joung _______________________________________________ p2p-hackers mailing list p2p-hackers at zgp.org http://zgp.org/mailman/listinfo/p2p-hackers From adam at homeport.org Wed Feb 12 07:11:47 2003 From: adam at homeport.org (Adam Shostack) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 10:11:47 -0500 Subject: Stupid security measures, a contest Message-ID: <20030212151147.GA99292@lightship.internal.homeport.org> "Human rights watchdog Privacy International has launched a quest to find the World's Most Stupid Security Measure. " http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/55/29279.html -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com Wed Feb 12 11:06:18 2003 From: kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com (John Kelsey) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 14:06:18 -0500 Subject: Stupid security measures, a contest In-Reply-To: <20030212151147.GA99292@lightship.internal.homeport.org> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030212140013.00aa3390@pop.ix.netcom.com> At 10:11 AM 2/12/03 -0500, Adam Shostack wrote: >"Human rights watchdog Privacy International has launched a quest to >find the World's Most Stupid Security Measure. " I can't imagine this is the stupidest, but there's a state office building in Missouri where (no doubt due to some Directive From On High), they've put up a wooden shack in front of the main entrance, where anyone going in or out has to pass through a metal detector. The wooden shack isn't directly in front of the entrance, however--probably, that would make life too hard on the smokers, who now have to go outside to smoke. It's more like about 50' in front of it, completely unconnected to the building. The really entertaining bit is that, since most people going into the building are basically law abiding (state employees), most people seem to go through the shack and get checked for weapons, rather than around the shack to save time. --John Kelsey, kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From accommodmc at 000email.com Fri Feb 14 07:41:12 2003 From: accommodmc at 000email.com (Hilary Fry) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:21:12 -0480 Subject: her investment s m0ney s invest0r indicated her d011ars s penny with JAIME Message-ID: <662161c80604s96jdzrizk3sz4zfst514afo13h1ymwel@localhost.fabulous.com> Trading Alert To all our Members! Can you make some fast money on a Red Hot GOLD stock? Put this one on your RADAR NOW! Get Eqtd first thing Thursday morning. This is going to EXPLODE over the next couple days! A Massive PR campaign is underway for all next week in support of HUGE acquisition news. We expect MASSIVE gains! Company: EQUAL TRADING inc. Right now PRECI0US METAL ST0CKS are one of the hottest things going. GOLD is at its highest level in decades and experts agree that this trend shows no sign of abating. Eqtd is expecting explosive acquisition news which is going to take this winner further in to the stratosphere! Ticker: EQTD Current Price: $O.O149 Target Price: $O.O4 Someone knows something!!! Recommendation: 10(10) BUY EQTD is coming through when the price of precious metals is going through the roof. Increasing demand from China and India as well as domestically means that mining companies are once again in for WINDFALL profits. Incredible news is coming out for EQTD. We believe that our readers should accumulate while there is still time. Opportunities like this don't come along everyday. TRADE SMART AND WIN ! From rah at shipwright.com Fri Feb 14 10:04:36 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 13:04:36 -0500 Subject: Degenerate Political Pressure (was RE: The Wimps of War) In-Reply-To: <02E49C72-4031-11D7-8FA1-000393D91E36@fexl.com> References: <02E49C72-4031-11D7-8FA1-000393D91E36@fexl.com> Message-ID: At 10:28 AM -0500 on 2/14/03, Patrick Chkoreff wrote: > How would you distinguish the actions of the Royal Navy from those of > ordinary pirates? Just prettier uniforms, better weaponry, and a bitch > back in London with a crown on her head, or what? Sounds about right to me. :-) Seriously, just chalk it up to emergent phenomena, and you're not too far from the truth. Cheers, RAH "A prince is a bandit who doesn't move." -- Mancur Olsen, 'Power and Prosperity' -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "Camels, fleas, and princes exist everywhere." -- Persian proverb From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From patrick at lfcgate.com Tue Feb 18 11:05:40 2003 From: patrick at lfcgate.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0600 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: Lucrative release 4 is out. I know many people are used to seeing releases numbered like "0.000001", "0.000002", "2.0.3.0.14.657" etc. but release numbering systems are essentially arbitrary in nature so don't get excited as Lucrative goes toward version 50+. This release is a fairly minor one, but included some changes such as the client name that I wanted to get out as soon as possible. There is also a new development weblog at http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/weblog/. I went through an install with someone over IRC last night and made a blog entry summarizing the install notes. I recommend reading the notes before attempting an install. I am glad to help with an install, drop me a note at patrick at lfcgate.com if you have trouble. Some documentation on the various entities in the Lucrative system is now available on the website, http://lucrative.thirdhost.com/documentation.php but more is needed and coming. If Lucrative is interesting to you, please consider helping in any way you can: Feedback Installation reports Suggestions Comments Criticism Feature requests Source code patches Donations Are all very much welcomed. And criticism is more useful to me than praise. My sincere thanks to everyone who has participated so far by installing, testing, providing feedback, spreading the word, and donating. And finally I just received word from SourceForge that the project registration for Lucrative has been approved. Regards, Patrick -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use mQGiBD5ECKcRBADUvjXHwLtxIyS4AyjBs/dFtN6rdeP18Fhzh1hD5fJwkFevqY9Z I1ASROTh6eXYF7pU5sEvbcPshHyTB41ZtTqZvQvpwWN0fUzOuutuI0mtC5UPp9Rz j47SdWLdEXNHjwnHDCYSyqtqZu8GujGRQybR0eP3NIh/NwbSDUKdgz7IjwCg//Jo UtjP3zUFobm/0UYA+CJ5krED/091x9Js0gwNwvjbzM8DqO+r8qNz0kXI13FkrPRk QNd37lxt6m2m8HZD1WYM2wKwtMzHSwJcWzaDZ/tNc+ppYjzpw0EQCh9FqjGs8Vau guF6PA1M8lJTCcLKaL4e7ynic+PAw5Xa/tdOYgFCG+eLMU5RLvzRCYoOLIjgMJLJ yG98BACAMlDmFVYgC/UKvzZmHfZ5CtCKd8sPfCXrYLu5NeFRE0LR6D6zjzmhi1xX okfreR5o3T/y78VBM98js+m2/+7Z0AElqydeW/RnV1zqwDGjDr9z2MgARf3yLAbs n3BU8Fz61RwvHy6cRkT+2dR2f69QQUSpkupvLwZIGX/iwm4uKLQdUGF0cmljayA8 cGF0cmlja0BsZmNnYXRlLmNvbT6JAE4EEBECAA4FAj5ECKcECwMCAQIZAQAKCRBb mvb9yuOVfaA2AKDAu5tDj9F2KI8cJMrKKkQRAcUyxACg6/bei7lUJH+E5igJqGRx SjKrRA65BA0EPkQIpxAQAPkYoH5aBmF6Q5CV3AVsh4bsYezNRR8O2OCjecbJ3HoL rOQ/40aUtjBKU9d8AhZIgLUV5SmZqZ8HdNP/46HFliBOmGW42A3uEF2rthccUdhQ yiJXQym+lehWKzh4XAvb+ExN1eOqRsz7zhfoKp0UYeOEqU/Rg4Soebbvj6dDRgjG zB13VyQ4SuLE8OiOE2eXTpITYfbb6yUOF/32mPfIfHmwch04dfv2wXPEgxEmK0Ng w+Po1gr9oSgmC66prrNlD6IAUwGgfNaroxIe+g8qzh90hE/K8xfzpEDp19J3tkIt AjbBJstoXp18mAkKjX4t7eRdefXUkk+bGI78KqdLfDL2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF 6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ +PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarT W56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY72 88kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XrPdYX AAICD/wKwtF7Y4NKBe8PQ6jDbjWziiTv9Ac/EnRTJDQEoqgLa2LyE+6Ahw/VPGvp mfxkD2MKxC9E7kYVmasn6sHnSpvAv3e7O1Bqbo/qLzzCcJQ5VCurZ+elRM1GZ4Oc fM19FPKutb0/JFEv0nrqS4BGkF7WFBbu5dKYl/GIO7Co1mAerFIb719dOwMPVEIz OT08u8uB9jyR8gEElf+CVuNfOUkrUGg4HS4SbmTTrCSz3/8n5PkquSuAyjCB/dwM ZsZwA0/TTR8sDYlmlf9xPj5PGpGnV9OUwfig6eE0eWtRFeasmz0uiX+yp45ABtNh 6EXP/PFaBgXi9omXXjeeFYfpDvmfA6izvTIQfXTV6V9ZWrBfXarM+GQ+6guXWVbd 9fXvmCr982LkzuKQrK1OpRXBMUapXL+tOy/LYzz91InqKKhgPNGa12fvotZ4LzlM iqoM+Hpz5L9B5We1Ph0lD6RBVXDCqd+P8extnY/7AaDy7tC0UghaAaUuEZXJQPIc oQ3QGbpjM0nGe/VZN5EZhljau0NNENFaU56cOpvOhcO04gLGNNc2NS+rIpTMsaHh o1CG90c5zZZJuUbyx0mIHriNQXDgEwunSZPQorKK9KSppyyjeuOyi5F/mBBPXeyT weLhLqLvAr9se/+Z3aQvMADJi8zUZtGggLTw+N9R5XSwtSh2R4kARgQYEQIABgUC PkQIpwAKCRBbmvb9yuOVfWayAKC+mBhHdn1XZ5uH0RocAyJ32hx2kgCePyhB+IqM TjWLDLarQxcPYhbkFi4= =nx1M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <7065329.1069841035469.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.au > --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <9232714.1069838815285.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.au > --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <11515472.1069840555301.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.a u> --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <7725908.1069843015289.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.au > --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <6044039.1069838935251.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.au > --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <1051019.1069841455260.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.au > --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <7473380.1069840195280.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.au > --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <9956845.1069838756114.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.au > --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <6686715.1069842655275.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.au > --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <15338635.1069840975331.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.a u> --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <10931191.1069839175483.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.a u> --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <14357716.1069839595464.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.a u> --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <246427.1069839235293.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.au> --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <9516022.1069840435371.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.au > --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <16479834.1069840915308.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.a u> --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <16668447.1069838875244.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.a u> --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <6177774.1069840855263.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.au > --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <3661289.1069839895513.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.au > --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <10483311.1069840015563.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.a u> --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <2388444.1069841275342.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.au > --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <2884607.1069839418403.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.au > --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <6207304.1069840375415.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.au > --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <8136849.1069839055326.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.au > --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <6716912.1069840255284.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.au > --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <10496062.1069839835287.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.a u> --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <5746246.1069842235261.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.au > --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <8911345.1069839355295.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.au > --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <11526523.1069840495356.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.a u> --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <13018016.1069839655275.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.a u> --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <4822550.1069840315428.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.au > --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <14897855.1069841335314.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.a u> --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <5718448.1069842535556.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.au > --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <4458040.1069841995385.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.au > --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <11509020.1069840135239.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.a u> --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <14995661.1069839535257.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.a u> --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <13333534.1069841155415.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.a u> --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <7137759.1069841215251.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.au > --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <3277721.1069839478689.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.au > --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <10766816.1069840075302.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.a u> --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <654830.1069839115288.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.au> --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <5252050.1069839955395.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.au > --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <12791978.1069840678526.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.a u> --- begin forwarded text From rah at shipwright.com Tue Feb 18 12:32:46 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Lucrative update Message-ID: <1149197.1069840615263.JavaMail.hlee20@sng.its.monash.edu.au > --- begin forwarded text From levitte at openssl.org Wed Feb 19 05:43:57 2003 From: levitte at openssl.org (Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 14:43:57 +0100 (CET) Subject: [ANNOUNCE] OpenSSL 0.9.7a and 0.9.6i released Message-ID: <20030219.144357.82990169.levitte@openssl.org> OpenSSL version 0.9.7a and 0.9.6i released ========================================== OpenSSL - The Open Source toolkit for SSL/TLS http://www.openssl.org/ The OpenSSL project team is pleased to announce the release of version 0.9.7a of our open source toolkit for SSL/TLS. This new OpenSSL version is a security and bugfix release and incorporates at least 11 changes and bugfixes to the toolkit (for a complete list see http://www.openssl.org/source/exp/CHANGES. We also release 0.9.6i, which contains the same security bugfix as 0.9.7a and a few more small bugfixes compared to 0.9.6h. The most significant changes are: o Security: Important security related bugfixes. [0.9.7a and 0.9.6i] o Enhanced compatibility with MIT Kerberos. [0.9.7a] o Can be built without the ENGINE framework. [0.9.7a] o IA32 assembler enhancements. [0.9.7a] o Support for new platforms: FreeBSD/IA64 and FreeBSD/Sparc64. [0.9.7a] o Configuration: the no-err option now works properly. [0.9.7a] o SSL/TLS: now handles manual certificate chain building. [0.9.7a] o SSL/TLS: certain session ID malfunctions corrected. [0.9.7a] We consider OpenSSL 0.9.7a to be the best version of OpenSSL available and we strongly recommend that users of older versions upgrade as soon as possible. OpenSSL 0.9.7a is available for download via HTTP and FTP from the following master locations (you can find the various FTP mirrors under http://www.openssl.org/source/mirror.html): o http://www.openssl.org/source/ o ftp://ftp.openssl.org/source/ For those who want or have to stay with the 0.9.6 series of OpenSSL, we strongly recommend that you upgrade to OpenSSL 0.9.6i as soon as possible. It's available in the same location as 0.9.7a. The distribution file name is: o openssl-0.9.7a.tar.gz [normal] MD5 checksum: a0d3203ecf10989fdc61c784ae82e531 o openssl-0.9.6i.tar.gz [normal] MD5 checksum: 9c4db437c17e0b6412c5e4645b6fcf5c o openssl-engine-0.9.6i.tar.gz [engine] MD5 checksum: c9adc0596c630b31b999eba32fc0a6b3 The checksums were calculated using the following command: openssl md5 < openssl-0.9.7a.tar.gz openssl md5 < openssl-0.9.6i.tar.gz openssl md5 < openssl-engine-0.9.6i.tar.gz Yours, The OpenSSL Project Team... Mark J. Cox Ben Laurie Andy Polyakov Ralf S. Engelschall Richard Levitte Geoff Thorpe Dr. Stephen Henson Bodo Möller Lutz Jänicke Ulf Möller --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From schear at attbi.com Thu Feb 20 13:38:39 2003 From: schear at attbi.com (Steve Schear) Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 13:38:39 -0800 Subject: Swiss Researchers Find A Hole In SSL Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030220133754.04380e90@mail.attbi.com> http://slashdot.org/articles/03/02/20/1956229.shtml?tid=93&tid=172 --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From tcmay at got.net Sun Feb 23 22:06:42 2003 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 22:06:42 -0800 Subject: One Man Against the World In-Reply-To: <3E59A3A7.9000504@ksvanhorn.com> Message-ID: <251C8A9E-47BE-11D7-8BAF-0050E439C473@got.net> On Sunday, February 23, 2003, at 08:46 PM, Kevin S. Van Horn wrote: > I've been reading DiLorenzo's book, _The Real Lincoln_, and this > description is a pretty close fit to Abraham Lincoln, too. > > Eric Cordian wrote: > >> --- A great, civilized nation democratically elected a fanatic >> demagogue, who preached war. Actually, he did not really receive the >> majority of votes, but, somehow, his ascent to power was arranged >> nevertheless. >> > Lincoln only got 40% of the popular vote. At the time he was elected, > it was generally assumed, and had been since the founding, that > secession was a fundamental right of the states. The idea that the > Federal Government could go to war to prevent states from leaving the > union was unheard of. JFK's father bought him the election. Look at the voting in Illinois, look at his father, the bootlegger. (I have nothing against bootlegging, but the hypocrisy of the Kennedy Clan railing against perceived moral crimes while making their family fortune off of bootlegging and graft is precious.) > >> --- Soon after assuming power, he manipulated a dramatic incident in >> order to tighten his grip upon the country >> > Fort Sumter. Bay of Pigs backfired, so Cuban Missile Crisis was the reserve plan. > >> and prepare for attack on smaller nations. >> > Such as the Confederacy and various Amerind nations. Escalating a nonexistent alliance with the Republic of South Vietnam, a cabal of dictators, into a war. I'm old enough to remember the Kennedy years and to remember how many people thought a bullet ought to end his power grab. Of course, he was canonized and sainted after his "sacrifice," and so one seldom heard after this death the call I remember from 1961-62: "Someone ought to put a bullet in that bastard's head." How soon we forget, and how much we have forgotten in this modern era that calling for the kiling of the Chief Criminal used to be a lot more common than it is today. It used to be we knew when bozos needed killing, and we weren't afraid of opining thusly. Today, however, The Criminal Whose Name May Not Be Uttered is uniquely protected from "Someone ought to frag his ass" comments. I liked it better when we thought "Good riddance!" when the Kennedy criminals were killed. --Tim May From shaddack at ns.arachne.cz Sun Feb 23 20:46:45 2003 From: shaddack at ns.arachne.cz (Thomas Shaddack) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 05:46:45 +0100 (CET) Subject: GNU radio musings Message-ID: GNU radio has a very very generic approach to signal handling. However, this brings some somehow troubling (and exciting) expectations for the future. It's only matter of time until the software for TEMPEST receivers will be written. Then the cost of lower-end TEMPEST units will drop down to next to zero, allowign even the smallest police unit to be equipped by one. The good side of it is that the system is likely to be so available that we as the defenders will have the possibility to check if our newly installed shielding doesn't leak. Another interesting application could be a passive radar. Three receiver units with precise timebase, located in a rough triangle, correlating the exact times they heard edges on the signal they receive. The same principle used by Czech passive radar systems Kopac, Ramona, and the most advanced, Tamara. Lockheed is now developing their own ones, rumours say their design is based on stolen and reverse-engineered Tamara. GNU radio units with proper software, timebase receiver using a central timebase transmitter or (if the operation scenario presumes satellite operations will be unaffected) GPS signal, a central computer (or cluster of computers) correlating the data from the receivers in the field, sent eg. over the Net. Any aircraft that's using its onboard radio systems will be visible for such network, which doesn't need any active transmitting components. Using a separate fixed omnidirectional pulse transmitter, it should be possible to broaden the system's function as a "standard" radar, possibly showing even the objects that don't broadcast on their own. Which could allow civilian population to build their own radar system for every city and village. Another possibility (would it work?) is using "natural" signal from some transmitter instead, making even active system seeming like passive one (after all, why we should broadcast our own pulsed signal from a fixed location when we have cellular towers doing it for us for free and without giving us FCC hassles.) An extension of this idea will allow tracking of any broadcasting devices; location of cellphones or personal walkie talkie transceivers or wireless bugs will become very simple. An object guarded with such system will be harder to attack clandestinely; at the moment the adversary uses radio to synchronize their people, their location gets instantly betrayed in machine-readable form. If tuned to the frequency of police transceivers (European systems Tetra and Matra are similar to GSM system, using digital pulse modulation which gives sharp, well-defined pulses easy to spot), could be used to log their position over time, giving the taxpayers instant informations that instead of protecting them in the streets the plods spend 70% of their time in their offices. As any technology, it's a double-edged sword. But seems to give much much more power to Us than to Them. So it seems to be good. And as an added benefit, it's a cool geek toy. From nobody at remailer.privacy.at Sun Feb 23 21:40:10 2003 From: nobody at remailer.privacy.at (Anonymous) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 06:40:10 +0100 (CET) Subject: Ethnomathematics ... or niggers in space ? Message-ID: <985567446ea6c8f72f7d858a7cc26dbe@remailer.privacy.at> http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/23/magazine/23CRASH.html?ex=1047027608&ei=1&en=b5465666bfebf361 Ethnomathematics February 23, 2003 By DIRK OLIN Mathematics is one academic subject that would seem to reside in a world of universality, protected from competing opinions by the objectivity of its laws. But the real universal law is that everything is relative, even in math. The release last month of a new math curriculum for New York City schools by Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg has elicited something just short of vituperation. Back-to-basics advocates denounce as ''fuzzy math'' its inclusion of so-called constructivist teaching techniques. Critics complain that those approaches encourage self-discovery and collaborative problem-solving at the expense of proved practices like memorization, repetition and mastery of algorithm. It's all the latest in a century of American math wars. The previous generation can remember the struggle over ''new math'' during the 1950's and 60's. (''Hooray for new math,/New-hoo-hoo math!'' Tom Lehrer sang. ''It won't do you a bit of good to review math./It's so simple,/So very simple./That only a child can do it!'') Battles flared even earlier in the century over ''progressive'' agendas for math education of the type pushed by John Dewey. How tame those struggles seem, however, when compared to the rising vanguard of self-described ethnomathematicians. For some, the new discipline just means studying the anthropology of various measurement methods; they merely want to supplement the accepted canon -- from Pythagoras to Euclid to Newton -- with mind-expanding explorations of mathematical ideas from other cultures. For others, however, ethnomathematics is an effort to supplant the tyranny of Western mathematical standards. The Postulates Ethnomathematics has a few parents, but most observers trace its formal birth to a speech given by the Brazilian mathematician Ubiratan D'Ambrosio in the mid-1980's. Now an emeritus professor of math at the State University of Campinas outside S-o Paulo, he explained his thinking a couple of years ago to The Chronicle of Higher Education: ''Mathematics is absolutely integrated with Western civilization, which conquered and dominated the entire world. The only possibility of building up a planetary civilization depends on restoring the dignity of the losers.'' Robert N. Proctor, who teaches the history of science at Pennsylvania State University, says he wants to counter the notion ''that the West is the be all and end all'' when it comes to mathematical studies. ''After all,'' he adds, ''all math is ethnomath -- not just African kinship numerics or Peruvian bead counting, but also the C.I.A.'s number-crunching cryptology and Reaganomics.'' To redress their pedagogical grievances, these ethnomathematicians want math curriculums that place greater emphasis on the systems of previous civilizations and certain traditional cultures. Studies of state civilizations might focus on Chinese or Arabic math concepts. One study, for example, has shown how the Chinese Chu Shih-chieh triangle anticipated by more than three centuries the highly similar arrangement of numerals by Pascal that holds sway in many Western teachings of probability theory. In her seminal books ''Ethnomathematics'' and ''Mathematics Elsewhere,'' Marcia Ascher, emerita professor of mathematics at Ithaca College, chronicles the astonishingly complex data-storage systems embedded in quipu, bundles of cotton cord knotted by Incans according to a sophisticated base-10 numeration system. At a more quotidian level, Ron Eglash of Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute has written and taught extensively about the nuances of fractals, or repeating patterns, that can be found in certain African craft work. (Eglash stresses a distinction between simple-minded multicultural math -- ''which merely replaces Dick and Jane counting marbles with Tatuk and Esteban counting coconuts'' -- and what he calls the ''deep design themes'' that represent mature, developed mathematical systems too often ignored in the study of many societies.) What Its Critics Fear Some of this is just fine, says David Klein, a professor of mathematics with California State University at Northridge. Klein (a self-described liberal who insists on separating his academic critique from any connection to a conservative political agenda) says the danger lies in allowing such precepts to crowd out fundaments on which modernity is based. He argues that the statistically lower achievements of some female and minority math students have resulted in an overreaction that doesn't serve their interests. ''The practical effect,'' Klein says, ''has been watered-down math books that overemphasize inductive reasoning (like continuing visual patterns), because this is supposed to be good for women and minorities, and de-emphasizing deductive reasoning and mathematical proofs, which is the heart of mathematics, because that supposedly favors white males. ''But mathematics is a worldwide monoculture. Look at the chalkboards in math departments at universities all around the world -- in Africa, Asia, Europe, Latin America. You will see the same symbols everywhere you go on this planet, except perhaps in colleges of education where fads reign supreme.'' Klein says he does spend some class time discussing the math of Mayans, Egyptians and other early civilizations. ''But ancient techniques and early discoveries in math will not take students very far who want to do something in the modern world with mathematics,'' he says. Will It Pass? Some proponents argue that whatever the freestanding authenticity of the cross-discipline, it is useful as a carrot to attract indifferent students. Philip Straffin, who has been teaching the popular ''Cultural Approaches to Mathematics'' at Beloit College for about 10 years, says that the lectures lure a mix of teachers in training and art students: ''Every time we give this course, there are twice as many students who want to take it as we have room for.'' As long as such developments complement and enhance rather than take time from and substitute for other mathematics learning, Judith Grabiner, who teaches at Pitzer College, says they are a plus. ''I don't want people teaching students that Mohammed ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi gave a systematic treatment of quadratic equations in the 10th century instead of learning how to solve quadratic equations,'' she says. ''But that's a false choice. Putting the math in its cultural context helps teach the mathematics and makes it more meaningful to students, since it has a human context.'' Indeed, those who think this threatens to spawn a brave new world of mathematical correctness might search their memories to recall if they didn't have a fourth- or fifth-grade teacher who brought an abacus to class. Calculating Cultural Impact >From 'Ethnomathematics: A Multicultural View of Mathematical Ideas,' by Marcia Ascher For mathematics, however, there has been a long philosophical debate on the reality of the objects it studies. Is a square something that has external reality or is it something only in our minds? . . . The relationship between the length of the hypotenuse and lengths of the sides of a right triangle is an eternal truth, but that does not mean that any other culture need share the categories triangle, right triangle, hypotenuse. . . . A critical issue is that, as it stands, much of mathematics education depends upon assumptions of Western culture and carries with it Western values. Those with other traditions are, as a result, often turned away by the subject or unsuccessful in learning it. And, for them, the process of learning mathematics, particularly when unsuccessful -- but even when successful -- can be personally debilitating as it detracts from and conflicts with their own cultural traditions. . . . [In] the United States, the concern has been stimulated by the realization that our educational approaches have yet to come to grips with the fact that we ourselves are a multicultural society.'' Dirk Olin is national editor at The American Lawyer. From tcmay at got.net Mon Feb 24 14:43:37 2003 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:43:37 -0800 Subject: The next time you see someone on TV in a "newsroom" In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030224151909.01604088@mail.well.com> Message-ID: <69DC5056-4849-11D7-8BAF-0050E439C473@got.net> On Monday, February 24, 2003, at 12:20 PM, Declan McCullagh wrote: > Remember this... > http://www.mccullagh.org/image/d30-32/new-york-times-dc-bureau.html > And I notice that hanging on the wall to the right in the photo is the "New York Times -- Baghdad Bureau" photo. "All the news that's fit to simulate." And to think some people still think we actually _did_ go to the moon at one time. (P.S. I wonder how long it will be before publishing a photo debunking someone's Potemkin Village is a violation of the DMCA?) --Tim May "You don't expect governments to obey the law because of some higher moral development. You expect them to obey the law because they know that if they don't, those who aren't shot will be hanged." - -Michael Shirley From declan at well.com Mon Feb 24 12:20:19 2003 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:20:19 -0500 Subject: The next time you see someone on TV in a "newsroom" Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030224151909.01604088@mail.well.com> Remember this... http://www.mccullagh.org/image/d30-32/new-york-times-dc-bureau.html :) -Declan From andrzej.obuchowski at xl.wp.pl Mon Feb 24 07:28:37 2003 From: andrzej.obuchowski at xl.wp.pl (Andrzej Obuchowski) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 16:28:37 +0100 Subject: I want Paul Walters DEAD! I want his family DEAD! Message-ID: <000b01c2dc19$6cc777e0$ca444cd5@o2s1h7> It is my belief that as we enter into this new century, the time has come to elevate Community Oriented Policing to The Next Level. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 436 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tcmay at got.net Mon Feb 24 16:40:58 2003 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 16:40:58 -0800 Subject: The next time you see someone on TV in a "newsroom" In-Reply-To: <20030224190034.A1054@cluebot.com> Message-ID: On Monday, February 24, 2003, at 04:00 PM, Declan McCullagh wrote: > On Mon, Feb 24, 2003 at 02:43:37PM -0800, Tim May wrote: >> And I notice that hanging on the wall to the right in the photo is the >> "New York Times -- Baghdad Bureau" photo. "All the news that's fit to >> simulate." > > Heh. I went on CNN Headline News last week around 7:20 am ET. They put > me in a studio I hadn't been in before, with a remote-controlled > camera and a photo of the monuments in the background. After my brief > segment was over, a camera operator came in and rolled down the > background a few inches -- apparently it hadn't been adjusted correctly > and all you could see was the sky. They have another background (a > continuous loop, on rollers) for daytime, night, etc. Will try to > remember to take a photo the next time I'm there. Those kinds of backgrounds are, I think, quite reasonable. They're very obviously just backdrops, as the lights don't change, lights at night don't flicker, clouds don't move, etc. CNBC uses them for San Francisco backdrops...usually the Golden Gate Bridge, or the Transamerica Pyramid, or the Bay Bridge. And they're even clever enough to usually have an "overcast" shot when the day is overcast, a "clear and sunny" shot as appropriate, and (less often for programming reasons) night shots. I think 99% of the viewers understand that it's just a visual cue to remind those not hearing or reading the intro about where the interviewee is located. Putting up fake newsrooms is quite another matter, though. I don't recall seeing this static shot of the "New York Times-Washington Bureau" newsroom. It seems like a silly thing to do, to have a photo of a newsroom with nobody in it. On the backdrops themselves, I'm surprised they're not using blue screen technology. The weather reporters have it, though with a sometimes visible "edge" (which is distracting). Since the War on (Some) Terrorists is the Wag the Dog War, we may soon be seeing actual faked war footage. (The best news has been that 100 or so American reporters have "signed on" to wear actual uniforms, to be assigned to combat units, and to participate in battles if need be. This I count as "good news" because it may mean that captured reporters are not held-and-released the way Bob Simon, for example, was in Iraq. This time they may face the same fate other captured enemy face. And it erases any misconceptions that the unquestioning press is actually independent of the military-industrial-media complex. "Fox News -- Fair AND Balanced!") --Tim May "Ben Franklin warned us that those who would trade liberty for a little bit of temporary security deserve neither. This is the path we are now racing down, with American flags fluttering."-- Tim May, on events following 9/11/2001 From kvanhorn at ksvanhorn.com Mon Feb 24 16:43:49 2003 From: kvanhorn at ksvanhorn.com (Kevin S. Van Horn) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:43:49 -0600 Subject: Ethnomathematics References: <985567446ea6c8f72f7d858a7cc26dbe@remailer.privacy.at> Message-ID: <3E5ABC45.7040106@ksvanhorn.com> Anonymous wrote: >Ethnomathematics > Good lord, this sounds like it was practically designed to sabotage the prospects for minorities to excel in mathematics, by encouraging them to waste their efforts on nonsense and useless trivia. From declan at well.com Mon Feb 24 16:00:34 2003 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 19:00:34 -0500 Subject: The next time you see someone on TV in a "newsroom" In-Reply-To: <69DC5056-4849-11D7-8BAF-0050E439C473@got.net>; from tcmay@got.net on Mon, Feb 24, 2003 at 02:43:37PM -0800 References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030224151909.01604088@mail.well.com> <69DC5056-4849-11D7-8BAF-0050E439C473@got.net> Message-ID: <20030224190034.A1054@cluebot.com> On Mon, Feb 24, 2003 at 02:43:37PM -0800, Tim May wrote: > And I notice that hanging on the wall to the right in the photo is the > "New York Times -- Baghdad Bureau" photo. "All the news that's fit to > simulate." Heh. I went on CNN Headline News last week around 7:20 am ET. They put me in a studio I hadn't been in before, with a remote-controlled camera and a photo of the monuments in the background. After my brief segment was over, a camera operator came in and rolled down the background a few inches -- apparently it hadn't been adjusted correctly and all you could see was the sky. They have another background (a continuous loop, on rollers) for daytime, night, etc. Will try to remember to take a photo the next time I'm there. -Declan PS: The newsroom itself: http://www.mccullagh.org/image/d30-32/new-york-times-washington-bureau.html From emc at artifact.psychedelic.net Mon Feb 24 20:50:36 2003 From: emc at artifact.psychedelic.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 20:50:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: Weizmann Institute Sets "Guinness Record" Message-ID: <200302250450.h1P4oaa29401@artifact.psychedelic.net> The Weizmann Institute has done it again. Written yet another press release, that is. I wasn't even aware Guinness had a record for the smallest biological computing device. Have the Guinness people even heard of the Weizmann people? One wonders. In any case, they claim that two spoonfuls of their latest goo is a 600 TeraOP DNA computer. I'll be more impressed when they port Linux. Har. http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20030224-045551-7398r ----- REHOVAT, Israel, Feb. 24 (UPI) -- The latest entry in the Guinness Book of World Records for smallest biological computing device is a microscopic gadget composed of DNA and enzymes that not only reads DNA for data but uses it as fuel. Israeli scientists reported Monday that just two spoonfuls could hold up to 30 million billion of such molecular computers, which could perform about 660 trillion operations per second -- nearly 20 times as many as Japan's Earth Simulator, the most powerful supercomputer now active. "The long-term goal is to eventually create autonomous, programmable molecular computing devices that can operate in vivo, eventually inside the human body, and function as 'doctors in a cell,'" researcher Ehud Shapiro, a computer scientist at the Weizmann Institute of Science, told United Press International. By detecting biochemical anomalies, the micro-computers could consult "their programmed medical knowledge to direct the synthesis and delivery of biomolecules that serve as drugs," Shapiro explained. DNA stores both information -- in the form of the genetic code in humans -- and energy. "Nature uses DNA for information storage, but does not exploit it as an energy supply," Shapiro said. The new device is an advance on a computer made of DNA previously announced by Shapiro and colleagues about a year ago. The device's input, output and "software" are composed of DNA molecules, while the hardware is made of naturally occurring enzymes that can manipulate DNA. When mixed together in a solution, the hardware and software work together, with the enzyme regulating the input according to rules encoded on the software molecule. All computers need energy, and the research team's previous DNA computer used a molecule called adenosine triphosphate, or ATP, the biochemical whose high-energy phosphate bonds are used by all cells as their standard fuel. In findings appearing online Feb. 24 in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, the scientists said the enzymes regulating the input molecules can use the energy released to drive calculations. "Our experiments demonstrate for the first time that we may use a DNA molecule as an input for computation, and at the same time fuel this computation by the energy stored in the very same molecule," Shapiro said. "Such combination, although theoretically conceivable, is practically impossible with conventional electronic computers." The computer requires very little energy, the scientists said. For example, even the hypothetical spoonful releases less than 25 millionths of a watt as heat. Moreover, the new computer is 50 times faster than before. "I would say this is a proof of concept," said IBM researcher Charles Bennett in Yorktown Heights, N.Y. "I think there's a long way to go from doing a particular computation like they propose here to making a general purpose molecular computer that's fast enough and reliable enough and energetically cheap enough to be useful." Shapiro admitted that the work remains at a very basic stage, but added the researchers hope to create even more powerful devices and perhaps create DNA computers that can work in living cells. "The main hurdle, which will take a decade or so to overcome, is science's inability to synthesize 'designer enzymes,'" Shapiro said. "Science does not know how to create enzymes that meet our needs." -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From emc at artifact.psychedelic.net Mon Feb 24 21:09:54 2003 From: emc at artifact.psychedelic.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 21:09:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: Why Spammers Should Be SLOWLY Tortured to Death Message-ID: <200302250509.h1P59tr29463@artifact.psychedelic.net> It seems some spammer has decided to use my email address as his return address, and I am now getting his bounce messages. From kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com Mon Feb 24 18:56:32 2003 From: kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com (John Kelsey) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 21:56:32 -0500 Subject: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and "minoritie s" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030224215109.01d424b0@pop.ix.netcom.com> At 10:31 AM 2/24/03 +0000, Vincent Penquerc'h wrote: ... >Now, I may have left my clue home, so feel free to explain *why* >100% capitalism (eg no state left, no other power) could never end up >with power aggregation. I don't think you can *ever* prove a claim like that, since you're dealing with humans, who can be only very imperfectly modeled. There's no system that couldn't possibly fall into some horrible state, whether that's tyranny or chaos or lemming-like rush to an unwinnable war or ostrich-like refusal to prepare for clearly oncoming war. Systems of human decision makers are driven by the decisions made by those humans, and sometimes, they're a bunch of idiots. More centralized decision-making has the ugly property that a smaller set of decision-makers have to be idiots to run the whole society into a ditch. On the other hand, more centralized decision-making makes larger projects possible sometimes, especially ones involving big, long wars. >-- >Vincent Penquerc'h --John Kelsey, kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com From NAVMSE-MAIL at newroadssouth.com Mon Feb 24 20:42:06 2003 From: NAVMSE-MAIL at newroadssouth.com (NAV for Microsoft Exchange-MAIL) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 23:42:06 -0500 Subject: Norton AntiVirus detected a virus in a message you sent. The inf ected attachment was deleted. Message-ID: Recipient of the infected attachment: MotorSPO\Inbox Subject of the message: Coremetrics One or more attachments were deleted Attachment src.pif was Deleted for the following reasons: Virus W32.Klez.H at mm was found. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 1763 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rah at shipwright.com Mon Feb 24 20:50:33 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 23:50:33 -0500 Subject: Ethnomathematics In-Reply-To: <360393BA-4862-11D7-8BAF-0050E439C473@got.net> References: <360393BA-4862-11D7-8BAF-0050E439C473@got.net> Message-ID: At 5:41 PM -0800 on 2/24/03, Tim May wrote: > Here's an image the censors are already trying to get removed: > > Yuck. I can't wait to see where Tim got this one from. I expect he's trolling the universe with it, though... Cheers, RAH Who remembers a biker-dismemberment series here, from some court case or another. It's where they usually come from... -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Mon Feb 24 20:50:41 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 23:50:41 -0500 Subject: Hard assets in case we hit have a major economic depression? Message-ID: ...Answering my own context question. Cypherpunk, google thyself... Cheers, RAH http://groups.google.com/groups?q=http://images.ogrish.com/2003/2212003/decap3.jpg&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&newwindow=1&selm=220220031903476073%25tcmay%40got.net&rnum=1 Groups Advanced Groups Search Preferences Groups Help "com" is a very common word and was not included in your search. [ details ] Groups search result 1 for http://images.ogrish.com/2003/2212003/decap3.jpg Patriot Act Compliance * FastWatch provides compliance for Sec. 326 of the Patriot Act * Penley Sponsored Links Attn: Corporate Counsel * USA Patriot Act analysis available online from major US law firms * www.lawperiscope.com Search Result 1 From: Tim May (tcmay at got.net ) Subject: Re: Hard assets in case we hit have a major economic depression? View: Complete Thread (60 articles) Original Format Newsgroups: misc.consumers.frugal-living ,misc.survivalism Date: 2003-02-22 19:09:31 PST In article , Vance Rogers wrote: > Yes we are. But of course, no one wants to be the messenger. > > How many a major corporations have to file Chapter 13? How > big does the Deficit have to get? The National Debt beyond > its statuatory limit (it his that limit in February), the unemployment > rate in certain parts of the country, in certain industries is MUCH > higher than being reported, because when someone's enemployment > runs out, they are no longer counted as part of the unemployment > statistics, and after a year of not working, are considered "drop > outs" from the market. > > The problems are larger than they were in the 30's, it just hasn't > been reported honestly to the American people. But reporting on this is considered "economic treason" under the Homeland Security Act, PATRIOT Act, Protection of the Reich Act, etc. Also, it's in our best interest to let this train wreck keep developing. When the collapse comes, the burnoff of 40 million useless eaters will be glorious to behold! Fuck the inner city welfare mutant thieves. Put their heads on pikes, just as in: http://images.ogrish.com/2003/2212003/decap3.jpg Fuck them dead. And gas their litters of little brown welfare eaters. --Tim May Post a follow-up to this message Google Home -Advertise with Us -Search Solutions -Services & Tools -Jobs, Press, & Help )2003 Google -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Mon Feb 24 20:50:43 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 23:50:43 -0500 Subject: Man decapitated while fleeing police Message-ID: http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/metro/atlanta/0203/16suspect.html [ The Atlanta Journal-Constitution: 2/16/03] Man decapitated while fleeing police By LINDSAY JONES Atlanta Journal-Constitution Staff Writer *Atlanta/South Metro community page A narcotics traffic stop on the Downtown Connector turned deadly Saturday afternoon when a man climbed over the interstate railing, fell about 35 feet and was decapitated on a wrought-iron fence, Atlanta police said. Officers in a marked car stopped the man about 4:30 p.m., as he drove south on the interstate above Auburn Avenue. The man, who has not been identified, stopped his vehicle and tried to flee by climbing over the railing, Lt. Danny Agan said. Police still are investigating whether the man jumped or fell off the raised interstate. "This is a new one for me in 29 years," Agan said. The decapitation shocked people who work in the neighborhood. Gary White, an income tax preparer, came out of his office when he heard the commotion. "It's surreal," White said. Agan said narcotics officers had been trailing the man for much of the day. Agan did not know if the officers who tried to arrest the man would be placed on administrative leave. "This is not something normally covered under the [standard operating procedure] of the department," he said. -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Mon Feb 24 20:50:45 2003 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 23:50:45 -0500 Subject: Disco Inferno Message-ID: http://groups.google.com/groups?q=http://images.ogrish.com/2003/2212003/decap3.jpg&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&newwindow=1&selm=ka0g5v46o9oeik7cludh98au0120fl99qe%404ax.com&rnum=7 Groups Advanced Groups Search Preferences Groups Help "com" is a very common word and was not included in your search. [ details ] Groups search result 7 for http://images.ogrish.com/2003/2212003/decap3.jpg Patriot Act Compliance * FastWatch provides compliance for Sec. 326 of the Patriot Act * Penley Sponsored Links Attn: Corporate Counsel * USA Patriot Act analysis available online from major US law firms * www.lawperiscope.com Search Result 7 From: leon skunkers Subject: Re: Disco Inferno View: Complete Thread (30 articles) Original Format Newsgroups: misc.survivalism Date: 2003-02-22 15:02:38 PST On Sat, 22 Feb 2003 10:34:34 -0800, Tim May wrote: >In article , Patt > wrote: > >> Aren`t you being just a little INSENSITIVE?? >> Ptt > >Speaking of disasters, I lived for a while in an apartment complex >immediately across the street from the "Toys-R-Us" in Maryland where >the roof collapsed this morning under the weight of a heavy load of >snow. I guess it gives new meaning to "a crush of shoppers." > >--Tim May if that's your kind of humor, and you want a REALLY good laugh, check THIS stuff out. story here: http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/metro/atlanta/0203/16suspect.html pics of the body: http://images.ogrish.com/2003/2212003/decap1.jpg http://images.ogrish.com/2003/2212003/decap2.jpg http://images.ogrish.com/2003/2212003/decap3.jpg I damn near laughed MY head off. Post a follow-up to this message Google Home -Advertise with Us -Search Solutions -Services & Tools -Jobs, Press, & Help )2003 Google -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From bill.stewart at pobox.com Mon Feb 24 23:52:23 2003 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 23:52:23 -0800 Subject: Ethnomathematics In-Reply-To: <360393BA-4862-11D7-8BAF-0050E439C473@got.net> References: <3E5ABC45.7040106@ksvanhorn.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030224224139.02d96868@idiom.com> At 05:41 PM 02/24/2003 -0800, Tim May wrote: >Seriously, this flap is old news. I remember about a dozen years ago >when some feminista professor was teaching "female-oriented physics." >Actually, she was _advocating_ the teaching of female-oriented physics. Was she an actual physics professor, talking about her own field, or some sort of literature/philosophy/sociology/politics professor? The latter type are definitely old news, but as long as they spend their time trying to convince female physics and mathematics professors to think about new ways to structure or teach their curriculum, that's fine. It's when they start dissing physics and math as "hostile to women" and thereby discouraging young women from going into the field that they really cause problems (as opposed to old boring sexist white male professors discouraging women from going into the field, which was the old problem.) Actually doing a female-oriented physics or teaching curriculum is fine, if somebody can do a good job of it. After all, most of these fields consist of real mathematics, exposure to real materials and their behaviour, sets of metaphors for understanding how the math and behaviour are related, and various levels of abstraction and concrete examples to interest students. The math is the math, and the materials either will or won't cooperate, but if feminist approaches can provide a set of metaphors or abstractions that help students (or at least female-culture-oriented students) understand how the math relates to the real world, then great! And if they can find a set of examples or problems that are less male-oriented than guns, rocketships, pushing pool cues into objects of various hardness and softness, or football and if this helps female students be more interested in the problems, or gives them examples that are more familiar to them, then great! There's certainly no shortage of boring textbooks out there, and if women who understand math and physics and communications can overcome Sturgeon's Law and the textbook publishers' mafia or teacher selection committees, then more power to them, and otherwise, well, the other 90% will be more gender-balanced. From cypherpunks at gurski.org Mon Feb 24 21:47:03 2003 From: cypherpunks at gurski.org (Michael Gurski) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 00:47:03 -0500 Subject: Why Spammers Should Be SLOWLY Tortured to Death In-Reply-To: <200302250509.h1P59tr29463@artifact.psychedelic.net> References: <200302250509.h1P59tr29463@artifact.psychedelic.net> Message-ID: <20030225054703.GG2515@gurski.org> On Mon, Feb 24, 2003 at 09:09:54PM -0800, Eric Cordian wrote: > It seems some spammer has decided to use my email address as his return > address, and I am now getting his bounce messages. ... > Am I uniquely blessed with this problem, or is this some new way for > spammers to ensure they are hated even more than serial child molesters > and terrorists. > > I think this really crosses the line into blatant illegality, and is a > racheting up of spammer scumminess way beyond simply trying to evade > filters with P'E'N'I'S and gratuitous HTML in the middle of suspicious > words. I'll see you your email address and raise you a non-published one. I'd like to thank Earthlink for leaving SMTP VRFY on for so long after I signed up with them just to have a way to dial-in while on the road constantly (read: never, ever used the address anywhere except internally to Earthlin). I also get tons of spam to it. A few days ago, I got a bounce to it, from Yahoo, about a bunch of disabled addresses I supposedly sent mail to... Relevant link to someone else who's been more vocal about this: "My Short Life As An Unintentional Porn Spammer" by Mike Masnick (though I originally saw it on slashdot, but then, people who give a damn about slashdot have already seen the /. url, while everyone else is likely sick to death of message after message being sent here with just a /. link and a title, if they haven't killfiled the most prolific sender already) -- Michael A. Gurski (opt. [firstname].)[lastname]@pobox.com Hail Eris! -><- All Hail Discordia! O- http://www.pobox.com/~[lastname] 1024/39B5BADD PGP: 3493 A994 B159 48B7 1757 1E4E 6256 4570 1024D/1166213E GPG: 628F 37A4 62AF 1475 45DB AD81 ADC9 E606 1166 213E My opinions are mine alone, even if you should be sharing them. "While the people are virtuous, they cannot be subdued: but when once they lose their virtue, they will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader." --Samual Adams -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gotshwway45_v__ at chickmail.com Mon Feb 24 18:45:24 2003 From: gotshwway45_v__ at chickmail.com (Edith Pryor) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 03 02:45:24 GMT Subject: © Enlarge your p e n i s © Message-ID: She won't believe her eyes when you drop your pants!

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Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2106 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nobody at dizum.com Wed Feb 26 14:50:06 2003 From: nobody at dizum.com (Nomen Nescio) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 23:50:06 +0100 (CET) Subject: cryptome log downloads Message-ID: <828d98ced7cf9620348325436b1bdd70@dizum.com> These IPs downloaded access log from cryptome during hacked state. pcp259331pcs.howard01.md.comcast.net 212.54.205.184 host.159-142-70-179.gsa.gov c-889471d5.021-3-73746f50.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se 217.167.197.20 193.128.179.38 217.167.197.20 host.21.88.68.195.rev.coltfrance.com 216.155.104.95 204.249.177.229 c-889471d5.021-3-73746f50.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se 206.180.129.0.dial-ip.hal-pc.org mchesnik.resnet.bucknell.edu logos.relcom.ru pcp03280952pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net pool-138-88-125-69.res.east.verizon.net adsl441.estpak.ee 194.90.22.83 h219-110-056-001.catv01.itscom.jp host33-206.pool80181.interbusiness.it 213-140-14-139.fastres.net pcp03280952pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net server2.gescenter.com c-889471d5.021-3-73746f50.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se user142.intonet.co.uk p50902fb5.dip.t-dialin.net 217.19.80.197 adsl441.estpak.ee bragi.fh-brandenburg.de esprx02x.nokia.com 62.92.119.47 washdc3-ar2-4-64-017-068.washdc3.elnk.dsl.genuity.net bragi.fh-brandenburg.de mail.emainc.com cf2.andrews.af.mil cachix1.tele.net stop.justice.gc.ca 218.1.37.179 212.137.60.106 m206-5.dsl.tsoft.com 195.243.47.34 host91-189.pool80181.interbusiness.it 130.94.106.228 folsom.officedepot.com 63.171.232.247 gateway1.scottish-southern.co.uk 19.203.252.64.snet.net 156.54.249.179 esprx02x.nokia.com 156.54.249.179 ip68-108-169-227.lv.lv.cox.net ip-192.landsend.com 212.54.205.184 dssback.smsu.edu adsl441.estpak.ee nycmny1-ar5-4-41-204-222.nycmny1.elnk.dsl.genuity.net ip68-12-36-71.ok.ok.cox.net spock.ti.telenor.net h00e018b87996.ne.client2.attbi.com 146.7.100.197 194.102.45.134 ppp011.datacom.bg paginiaurii.rdsnet.ro 12.146.66.131 segfault.net host18-121.pool8021.interbusiness.it 212.54.205.184 server.olgastift.s.bw.schule.de adsl441.estpak.ee anancy-104-1-2-19.abo.wanadoo.fr 12-238-233-6.client.attbi.com ppp011.datacom.bg adsl-154-201-4.clt.bellsouth.net 193.1.100.103 section.eu.org adsl-65-69-105-82.dsl.tulsok.swbell.net 65.123.207.130 www-cache.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de interlock.doeal.gov pcp01686411pcs.wchstr01.pa.comcast.net px2o.wpafb.af.mil adsl441.estpak.ee 1cust113.tnt14.stk3.swe.da.uu.net js.bitnux.com dsl081-198-094.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net gussie.cs.queensu.ca 62.173.76.47 65.213.245.17 netcache-2002.public.lawson.webtv.net 65.213.245.17 mail.targettv.com paginiaurii.rdsnet.ro grossetto.cinetic.de 212.185.163.2 grossetto.cinetic.de rnet.riss.net adsl-208-190-44-194.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net 199.195.109.4 user-0ccskj1.cable.mindspring.com webcacheh02a.cache.pol.co.uk 202.166.126.229 supercache.qualitynet.net 210.187.2.163 170.red-80-58-4.pooles.rima-tde.net adsl441.estpak.ee 207.140.171.115 mail.targettv.com 62.118.206.245 gozer.adams.edu h36n1fls23o1073.telia.com webcacheh02a.cache.pol.co.uk mix-poitiers-106-4-203.abo.wanadoo.fr valis.net.pl 210.187.2.163 200.60.244.210 paginiaurii.rdsnet.ro user31.net518.tx.sprint-hsd.net rd.centennialrd.com grossetto.cinetic.de doc.atstake.com paginiaurii.rdsnet.ro user-2ivfj0h.dialup.mindspring.com dyn325.win.tue.nl doc.atstake.com us1.pharmacia.com 199.67.140.75 198.65.201.34 pf.epsa.pl cache4.ihug.com.au 24-90-126-37.nyc.rr.com 217.206.228.15 adsl441.estpak.ee sigsegv.us 199.195.109.4 www.japet.si el8.net acb4aa08.ipt.aol.com ocw-fl6.mit.edu cache-da03.proxy.aol.com radio-15.cvairnet.com ocw-fl6.mit.edu eric.mvc.mcc.ac.uk 65.213.245.17 host70-246.pool8173.interbusiness.it adsl-216-102-104-158.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net host18-121.pool8021.interbusiness.it 65.213.245.17 india.dsnethosting.com 12.146.66.131 adsl-66-140-35-4.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net cc37206-b.ensch1.ov.home.nl hiryu.st.ryukoku.ac.jp cc37206-b.ensch1.ov.home.nl 0x50a1be60.abnxx5.adsl.tele.dk 62.13.170.12 130.156.3.254 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