I am anti war. You stupid evil scum are pro Saddam.

[Michael Kalus]

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On 20-Dec-03, at 8:41 PM, James A. Donald wrote:

> I am anti war.  You lot are pro Saddam.
>

Why. Because we OPPOSED the war on Saddam? That's an interresting logic 
you have here:

"I am against the war, unless of course, it is initiated by lies, 
deceit and the US of A. YOU are all of course for Torture, Murder and 
Saddam because he is the one the US of A is fighting the war against."

> Back in the sixties, there were lots of good reasons to oppose
> the Vietnam war, notably that it was fought by conscription,

Oh, so if it can hit your friend Buddy from down the road who just got 
drafted it is okay to be against it. But if a kid from the Bronx who 
has no other viable choice but join the military gets into the 
crossfire (and don't tell me he understands the reasons any better than 
your Buddy did back in Vietnam) it is okay?

> and that McNamara's search for measures of war fighting
> efficiency and to create incentives for efficient production of
> war effort were demoralizing the troops, and instead of
> creating incentives to fight effectively, created perverse
> incentives to commit mass murder in place of killing the enemy.
>

Ah, and this right now was / is a "clean" war? You now, good and 
honest? Two guys facing each other? One a couple of thousand feet up in 
the air dropping cluster bombs on cities while the other one hides in a 
hole, together with his family?


> But instead the opponents wound up chanting 'ho, ho, ho Chi
> Minh" Ho Chi Minh was a senior KGB agent, who after spending
> ten years behind a desk in Moscow organizing the murder of
> Indochinese nationalists was sent from Moscow to rule what
> became North Vietnam.  He purged 85% of the communist party,
> murdering a large but unknown proportion of them, and conducted
> a terror against the peasants of extraordinary savagery.

Yet you still think there was a good reason to Oppose the Vietnam war? 
Make up your mind man. Was it a "just" war like (in your opinion) Iraq 
right now or was it unjust?


>
> And now the guys on this list are weeping big salt tears about
> poor victimized Saddam.
>

Because, if we claim to be humane, do these wars for the greater good, 
we better act like it. (By it i mean the West in general). If we don't 
then we better shut the fuck up about our 'ideals" and how everybody 
should live by them. Why do you think we're such a target? Because the 
majority of the world population sees us for what we are: Opportunistic 
killers. Either we do it ourselves or we pay others to do our dirty 
work.


> Anyone who opposed the war on Vietnam should have started off
> by asking "How shall we contain the Soviet Union and eventually
> defeat communism, and what is wrong with the way this
> administration is doing it.

First of all the USSR was not Commust, it was a Stalnistic country. 
Second of all: Shouldn't people be free to choose under which political 
system they want to live? I grew up in Western Germany, I have been to 
what was then the GDR several times. I have still family in those 
areas. You know what? They said overall it was just as good if not 
better than it is today.

It is your kind of Arrogance that causes wars like one in Iraq right 
now. It is arrogance like yours that makes millions suffer without you 
even notice. There were a million more places where an intervention 
would have done any good. Yet in none of these places do we see anybody 
(Ivory Coast anyone?)


>
> Similarly anyone who opposes the war in Iraq should start by
> visualizing himself as the heir of  King John Sobieski, not the
> heir of Saladin.  Anyone opposing the war in Iraq needs oppose
> it from the point of view that Americans and their way of life
> should win, deserve to win, and the raghead fanatics should
> lose, and their way of life perish.
>
Why does the "american way of life" have to win? What is it about the 
"american way" that has to win? The ability to dream of maybe becoming 
rich one day? The american dream and lifestyle has just as much right 
to "win" as any other. There is no "right" in any of these.



>
> Anyone who wants to argue that the guys in the two towers had
> it coming, and poor Saddam is a victim, puts himself in the
> corner with the people who are stupid, evil, and losers.
>

Sammdam and the two towers had nothing to do with each other. That for 
one.

Second of all. Did they had it coming? Yes. It was only a question of 
time until something like this would have happened. The fact that the 
majority refused to see it has nothing to do with it.

Something will happen again, doesn't matter how many grannys you take 
away their needles, or how many people you put on a "no-fly" list 
because they are reading the wrong books. History is beginning to 
repeat itself. The Colonial Powers got kicked out of their colonies. As 
the world can hardly kick the US out of the Earth they will strike 
home.

If you really think that the US's behaviour (in regards to foreign 
policy) has nothing to do with 9/11 then you really are blind.

Michael

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