Responding to orders which include a secrecy requirement

[Tyler Durden]

"Tim May is the perfect example why vigilante justice is
generally considered to be a bad thing -- stupid assholes
like Tim May spout off & take action based on paranoia
instead of facts & principles of anarchy instead of justice
and innocent parties get hurt."

Well, on one hand taking justice into one's own hands opens the doors to 
pretty much anything anybody can think of that ticks them off.

On the other hand, there are clearly times and societies where such an 
approach is warranted. The usual exmples have already been given. These 
examples seem to have at their intersection a time where the government (and 
the powers that be) are themselves immune from legal consequence and above 
the law, while 'enforcing' laws that are innately evil. Such a society has 
pretty much boiled down to "might makes right", and such a government is a 
government in name only.

The question then becomes, when do we know when we've entered such a time? 
More specifically, have we in the US entered such a time? And if we have 
not, does it not at least appear that we might, soon? If the answer to 
either of these questions is yes, then Tim May's suggestion is not a matter 
of "if", but "when". If the Koran becomes outlawed but a librarian rats on a 
Muslim trying to access the Koran online, then is this not much different 
from the Nazi days? Of course, we believe that the librarian is trying to 
"do the right thing". But do you really think that enthusiastic Hitler 
followers believed they were evil?

No, Tim May's statement is not scary because he's suggesting anarchy. It's 
scary because sometime in the near future it may actually be a reasonable 
response. (Well, I dont agree with the 'killing the kids' thing.) If Mike 
Hawash can be grabbed off the streets without any acknowledgement by the 
Feds and then go to prison for NOT fighting against the US (but clearly 
thinking about it), then we are in deep trouble.

-TD






>From: Tim May <timcmay at got.net>
>To: cypherpunks at lne.com
>Subject: Re: Responding to orders which include a secrecy requirement
>Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 18:01:52 -0700
>
>On Sunday, August 31, 2003, at 04:20  PM, James A. Donald wrote:
>
>>     --
>>>Tim May is the perfect example why vigilante justice is
>>>generally considered to be a bad thing -- stupid assholes
>>>like Tim May spout off & take action based on paranoia
>>>instead of facts & principles of anarchy instead of justice
>>>and innocent parties get hurt.
>>
>>Talk is cheap.  Actions are done more carefully.   Tim implied
>>he would kill stoolies that shopped him to the police, not that
>>stoolies had shopped him to the police.  Indeed, the one may be
>>connected to the other -- the absence of stoolies may well be
>>connected to the presence of hot talk.
>
>And there is nothing immoral in discussing the fact that actions may have 
>consequences.
>
>Take the work camps described in Solzhenitsyn's "One Day in the Life of 
>Ivan Denisovitch." (Or, of course, the Nazi extermination camps. Or the 
>U.S. concentration camps in Gitmo.) The camp management clearly sought a 
>docile, "policeman inside," stoolie-oriented system where informers and 
>"capos" (those who cooperate and act as de facto guards) see no reason NOT 
>to be stoolies and capos.
>
>But merely the threat that stoolies and capos will be found with their 
>throats slit is often enough to deter such behaviors.
>
>My point is that if librarians even think there is some small chance that 
>someone they narc out to Big Brother will kill them or their families, such 
>stoolie behavior may drop precipitously.
>
>
>--Tim May
>"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher 
>a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, 
>build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, 
>cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, 
>program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. 
>Specialization is for insects." --Robert A. Heinlein

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