I'm asking for more rights, not restrictions (was Re: Antispam Bills: Worse Than Spam?)

Jim Choate ravage at einstein.ssz.com
Sat Aug 2 21:35:59 PDT 2003


On Sat, 2 Aug 2003 mindfuq at comcast.net wrote:

> Things got pretty twisted there in your response- let me unravel this:
>
> * Jim Choate <ravage at einstein.ssz.com> [2003-08-02 18:04]:
> > On Sat, 2 Aug 2003 mindfuq at comcast.net wrote:
> >
> > > Please explain.
> >
> > Read Zamyatin's "We".
>
> This is a cop out.

No, you asked for an explanation. The book is an excellent one. Just
another example of you wanting somebody else to do it for you.

> Speak for yourself.

I never speak for others, that's their job.

> For all we know, you didn't read this book.

Irrelevant.

For all we know you can't read. You might be having somebody else read and
write this text that supposedly comes from you. Not my problem or of any
interest to me really.

By the way your commentary is a ad hominim attack and tends to weaken your
argument.

> explain why you think I miss the purpose of law in a democracy.

Your commentary.

>  If you don't, your argument falls with it's own dead weight

If I don't what, explain my self? I did, I suggest that you read "We". My
argument at no point requires 'We' and I've explained my views much better
than you have.

> - one beauty of free speech: ideas without merit fall,

That's a laughable one. How come religions like Christianity still hang
around then? Peoples belief that gay marriage is a sin and will cause the
collapse of western civilization? Or that government is 'good'?

> good ideas are carried as far as they're worth.

Not hardly. If that were so then this discussion would have been resolved
200 years ago. It isn't, and it won't be 200 (or 2,000 for that matter)
years from now. Your thesis is bogus.

> > Actually it's a perfect comparison. Anyone can put stuff on your front
> > porch. They can't take it away or read it, that is using personal property
> > without permission. Hence, people have a -right- to send you mail. They
> > don't have a right to read your mail without permission.
>
> No one has this right.  There is no inherent right to put stuff on
> someones front porch.

Right to speak and press. People have a right to speak their mind and they
have a right to use a press to spread it around.

You better talk to a lawyer and do some deeper thinking. People have a
right to contact you, you have the right to tell them to go away. You
don't have the right to be hermit.

Your views of 'individualism' are the exact sort that Hayek and others
warn against.

Individualism and Economic Order
F.A. Hayek
ISBN 0-226-32093-6

In particular the very first section, "Individualims: True or False".

>  And yes, to remove any doubt, I can put up a
> sign making it clear that such an act is trespassing.

That is correct, YOU are responsible for it. And even that is a perfect
defence since there is still a public access to your property where it
meets public property, an easment (ie the place where a sidewalk goes). In
most cities it ranges from 3 to 4 ft. from the curb. That property is managed
under imminent domain concepts even though you are responsible for its
upkeep and such.

> I don't know if people have a right to send me mail; but my argument
> is that reguardless of whether they have this right, I should have a
> private right of action to claim $500 per spam mail.

I have no problem with a 'private right', sue in civil court till the cows
come home. That's not what you're talking about or promoting.

You're talking about of both sides of your face.


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      ravage at ssz.com                            jchoate at open-forge.org
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