Conflating "off-line" with "bearer" (was Re: double-spending prevention w. spent coins)

[R. A. Hettinga]

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I'm learning a lot this morning. Thank you Adam, for a splendid
taxonomy.

I'll take one more shot at this, though sooner or later you'd think
I'd stop pissing in the wind. :-).

At 2:50 AM +0100 4/26/03, Adam Back wrote:
>Re. the side discussion about whether it's fair to call these tokens
>coins as the value lies in the double spend database rather than the
>coin, I had the same discussion with Bob some time ago, and I
>concur. 
>
>I'd argue the p2p offline Brands option is more "coin" like in that
>you (personally) can spend the coin without relying on the
>double-spend database (providing the payee doesn't do an online
>deposit before accepting your payment).


The value is controlled by the entity holding the token. The fact
that you're actually calling it a "token", above, should give you a
hint.

Besides, even in book-entry transactions, the value of the asset is
controlled by the holder of the asset, not the clearinghouse. That's
the point to building transaction systems in the first place, that,
and to do so without repudiation of the transaction.


As I've said before, people have to think about what's happening
financially, and stop conflating "off-line" with "bearer". 

The fact that a given protocol requires a double-spend database, but
the database can *only* prevents non-repudiation, and, most
important, can say *nothing* about *who* owns the asset in question
*unless* they double spend, means that assets transacted using that
protocol can be said to be held in bearer form, and, as such, are no
different, financially, from  assets transacted using a coin, or a
note, or a bond, or a certificate -- or a token.

Think of it as a financial Turing test. If it quacks, etc.

Cheers,
RAH





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-- 
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R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'