From ga4tabi8l633 at hotmail.com Sat Jun 1 13:53:39 2002 From: ga4tabi8l633 at hotmail.com (Sarah) Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 01:53:39 -1900 Subject: Fast, Free, Instant Life Insurance Quotes... TQKPVPNJB Message-ID: <000032353b04$00005753$00007102@mx13.hotmail.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1640 bytes Desc: not available URL: From foundmoney at consumerpackage.net Sat Jun 1 00:19:19 2002 From: foundmoney at consumerpackage.net (FoundMoney) Date: 1 Jun 2002 07:19:19 -0000 Subject: cypherpunks, claim the money you never knew you had Message-ID: <200206010715.g517F9Fb008877@ak47.algebra.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 6172 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sat Jun 1 05:50:33 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 07:50:33 -0500 Subject: Guardian Unlimited | Special reports | Secret Middle East talks in Britain Message-ID: <3CF8C319.65B3AF87@ssz.com> Just another example where a neutral third party is more effective than the CACL approach of only allowing the parties in the 'contract' to resolve the problem directly. http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,725964,00.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ A witty saying proves nothing. Voltaire ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sat Jun 1 06:11:23 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 08:11:23 -0500 Subject: Suggested Reading: ERCB: DDJ Programmer's Bookshelf April 2002 Message-ID: <3CF8C7FB.1566E9E4@ssz.com> http://www.ercb.com/ddj/2002/ddj.0204.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ A witty saying proves nothing. Voltaire ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sat Jun 1 06:28:06 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 08:28:06 -0500 Subject: Company: Software Has Low Mistake Rate (Library Filtering, Spin Doctor Bullshit) Message-ID: <3CF8CBE6.3DE70137@ssz.com> http://www.kxan.com/Global/story.asp?S=803144&nav=0s3c9Ltx -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ A witty saying proves nothing. Voltaire ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From majormediacal at hotmail.com Sat Jun 1 09:27:15 2002 From: majormediacal at hotmail.com (majormediacal at hotmail.com) Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 10:27:15 -0600 Subject: Major Medical Breakthrough Huge Profit Potential Message-ID: <200206011726.g51HFq7l028188@mail11.megamailservers.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3153 bytes Desc: not available URL: From schear at lvcm.com Sat Jun 1 10:39:52 2002 From: schear at lvcm.com (Steve Schear) Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 10:39:52 -0700 Subject: BBC hijacks TiVo recorders Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020601103711.03487fb8@pop3.lvcm.com> [This sort of thing is why I will never consider buying networked appliances that I don't feel are in my control. Has anyone considered reverse engineering Windows for an open source release?] BBC hijacks TiVo recorders By Andrew Smith Posted: 24/05/2002 at 23:22 GMT Users of the TiVo digital video recorder have reacted angrily to a new sponsorship feature that automatically records certain programmes, adverts and other promotional material. One of TiVo's more innovative features is its ability to recommend programmes based on viewing habits, such as watching every episode of a soap opera or every film starring a certain actor. But viewers in the UK were surprised this week to find that the second episode of the little-known BBC sitcom "Dossa and Joe" had been recorded without their knowledge and added to the system's main menu screen. They were even more surprised to find that they won't be allowed to delete the programme for one week, and that more sponsored recordings are on the way. ... From mynetdetectives at offer888.net Sat Jun 1 04:29:21 2002 From: mynetdetectives at offer888.net (Online Investigation) Date: 1 Jun 2002 11:29:21 -0000 Subject: Cypherpunks, be your own private eye Message-ID: <200206011529.g51FTPFb012153@ak47.algebra.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1573 bytes Desc: not available URL: From schear at lvcm.com Sat Jun 1 12:52:51 2002 From: schear at lvcm.com (Steve Schear) Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 12:52:51 -0700 Subject: My published reply to Thomas Friedman NYT/SJM piece Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020601123932.03487d00@pop3.lvcm.com> The San Jose Mercury News published my brief rebuttal to Thomas Friedman's recent Luddite piece discussed on the list. In the NYT it was titled "Webbed, Wired and Worried," http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/26/opinion/26FRIE.html, in the SJM it was called "Terrorists shake high-tech's foundation of trust'" . 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Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4391 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tcmay at got.net Sat Jun 1 15:52:49 2002 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 15:52:49 -0700 Subject: BBC hijacks TiVo recorders In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4C6230F4-75B2-11D6-B774-0050E439C473@got.net> On Saturday, June 1, 2002, at 03:08 PM, jet wrote: >> They were even more surprised to find that they won't be allowed to >> delete the programme for one week, and that more sponsored recordings >> are on the way. >> ... >> > > However, the show didn't take up any user space, but was stored in > reserved system space that's kept around for use during software > upgrades and whatnot. If TiVO works the same basic way my UltimateTV (Sony/DirectTV) works, having "Bubba and Ram Dass," or whatever, always in my list of recorded shows for a week would be a massive annoyance. You said you worked for TiVo, as I recall. I suggest you point out to your corporate bosses the Law of Unintended Consequences. I foresee growing irritation, hacks to permanently interfere with TIVo's spam recordings, the "Bubba and Doss" show being unfavorably smeared by angry TiVO customers, and even a grass roots campaign to monkeywrench TiVO in general. By the way, so far my Ultimate TV hasn't tried any such Big Brother tricks on me. Though they may have their own corporate clowns looking for revenue enhancement. Downloaded ads that play before every recorded show can be viewed. Schemes to disable fast-forwarding through commercials. --Tim May "The whole of the Bill [of Rights] is a declaration of the right of the people at large or considered as individuals... It establishes some rights of the individual as unalienable and which consequently, no majority has a right to deprive them of." -- Albert Gallatin of the New York Historical Society, October 7, 1789 From jos_edw at mail.com Sat Jun 1 07:21:04 2002 From: jos_edw at mail.com (JOSEPH EDWARD) Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 16:21:04 +0200 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <200205311416.g4VEGXu15382@waste.minder.net> STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL & URGENT. I am Mr, Joseph Edward a native of Cape Town in South Africa and I am an Executive Accountant with the South Africa MINISTRY OF MINERAL RESOURCES AND ENERGY First and foremost, I apologized using this medium to reach you for a transaction/business of this magnitude, but this is due to Confidentiality and prompt access reposed on this medium. I have decided to seek a confidential co-operation with you in the execution of the deal described Hereunder for the benefit of all parties and hope you will keep it as a top secret because of the nature of this transaction. Within the Department of Mining & Natural Resources where I work as an Executive Accountant and with the cooperation of four other top officials, we have in our possession as overdue payment bills totaling Twenty - One Million, Five Hundred Thousand U. S. Dollars ($21,500,000.) which we want to transfer abroad with the assistance and cooperation of a foreign company/individual to receive the said fund on our behalf or a reliable foreign non-company account to receive such funds. More so, we are handicapped in the circumstances, as the South Africa Civil Service Code of Conduct does not allow us to operate offshore account hence your importance in the whole transaction. This amount $21.5m represents the balance of the total contract value executed on behalf of my Department by a foreign contracting firm, which we the officials over-invoiced deliberately. Though the actual contract cost have been paid to the original contractor, leaving the balance in the Tune of the said amount which we have in principles gotten approval to remit by Key tested Telegraphic Transfer (K.T.T) to any foreign bank account you will provide by filing in an application through the Justice Ministry here in South Africa for the transfer of rights and privileges of the former contractor to you. I have the authority of my partners involved to propose that should you be willing to assist us in the transaction, your share of the sum will be 25% of the $21.5 million, 70% for us and 5% for taxation and miscellaneous expenses. The business itself is 100% safe, on your part provided you treat it with utmost secrecy and confidentiality. Also your area of specialization is not a hindrance to the successful execution of this transaction. I have reposed my confidence in you and hope that you will not disappoint me. Endeavor to contact me immediately my e-mail address whether or not you are interested in this deal. If you are not, it will enable me scout for another foreign partner to carry out this deal I want to assure you that my partners and myself are in a position to make the payment of this claim possible provided you can give us a very strong Assurance and guarantee that our share will be secured and please remember to treat this matter as very confidential matter, because we will not comprehend with any form of exposure as we are still in active Government Service and remember once again that time is of the essence in this business. I wait in anticipation of your fullest co-operation. Yours faithfully, JOSEPH EDWARD From jos_edw at mail.com Sat Jun 1 07:21:08 2002 From: jos_edw at mail.com (JOSEPH EDWARD) Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 16:21:08 +0200 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <200205311416.g4VEGeKG006633@ak47.algebra.com> STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL & URGENT. I am Mr, Joseph Edward a native of Cape Town in South Africa and I am an Executive Accountant with the South Africa MINISTRY OF MINERAL RESOURCES AND ENERGY First and foremost, I apologized using this medium to reach you for a transaction/business of this magnitude, but this is due to Confidentiality and prompt access reposed on this medium. I have decided to seek a confidential co-operation with you in the execution of the deal described Hereunder for the benefit of all parties and hope you will keep it as a top secret because of the nature of this transaction. Within the Department of Mining & Natural Resources where I work as an Executive Accountant and with the cooperation of four other top officials, we have in our possession as overdue payment bills totaling Twenty - One Million, Five Hundred Thousand U. S. Dollars ($21,500,000.) which we want to transfer abroad with the assistance and cooperation of a foreign company/individual to receive the said fund on our behalf or a reliable foreign non-company account to receive such funds. More so, we are handicapped in the circumstances, as the South Africa Civil Service Code of Conduct does not allow us to operate offshore account hence your importance in the whole transaction. This amount $21.5m represents the balance of the total contract value executed on behalf of my Department by a foreign contracting firm, which we the officials over-invoiced deliberately. Though the actual contract cost have been paid to the original contractor, leaving the balance in the Tune of the said amount which we have in principles gotten approval to remit by Key tested Telegraphic Transfer (K.T.T) to any foreign bank account you will provide by filing in an application through the Justice Ministry here in South Africa for the transfer of rights and privileges of the former contractor to you. I have the authority of my partners involved to propose that should you be willing to assist us in the transaction, your share of the sum will be 25% of the $21.5 million, 70% for us and 5% for taxation and miscellaneous expenses. The business itself is 100% safe, on your part provided you treat it with utmost secrecy and confidentiality. Also your area of specialization is not a hindrance to the successful execution of this transaction. I have reposed my confidence in you and hope that you will not disappoint me. Endeavor to contact me immediately my e-mail address whether or not you are interested in this deal. If you are not, it will enable me scout for another foreign partner to carry out this deal I want to assure you that my partners and myself are in a position to make the payment of this claim possible provided you can give us a very strong Assurance and guarantee that our share will be secured and please remember to treat this matter as very confidential matter, because we will not comprehend with any form of exposure as we are still in active Government Service and remember once again that time is of the essence in this business. I wait in anticipation of your fullest co-operation. Yours faithfully, JOSEPH EDWARD From jos_edw at mail.com Sat Jun 1 07:21:25 2002 From: jos_edw at mail.com (JOSEPH EDWARD) Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 16:21:25 +0200 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <200205311420.JAA01813@einstein.ssz.com> STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL & URGENT. I am Mr, Joseph Edward a native of Cape Town in South Africa and I am an Executive Accountant with the South Africa MINISTRY OF MINERAL RESOURCES AND ENERGY First and foremost, I apologized using this medium to reach you for a transaction/business of this magnitude, but this is due to Confidentiality and prompt access reposed on this medium. I have decided to seek a confidential co-operation with you in the execution of the deal described Hereunder for the benefit of all parties and hope you will keep it as a top secret because of the nature of this transaction. Within the Department of Mining & Natural Resources where I work as an Executive Accountant and with the cooperation of four other top officials, we have in our possession as overdue payment bills totaling Twenty - One Million, Five Hundred Thousand U. S. Dollars ($21,500,000.) which we want to transfer abroad with the assistance and cooperation of a foreign company/individual to receive the said fund on our behalf or a reliable foreign non-company account to receive such funds. More so, we are handicapped in the circumstances, as the South Africa Civil Service Code of Conduct does not allow us to operate offshore account hence your importance in the whole transaction. This amount $21.5m represents the balance of the total contract value executed on behalf of my Department by a foreign contracting firm, which we the officials over-invoiced deliberately. Though the actual contract cost have been paid to the original contractor, leaving the balance in the Tune of the said amount which we have in principles gotten approval to remit by Key tested Telegraphic Transfer (K.T.T) to any foreign bank account you will provide by filing in an application through the Justice Ministry here in South Africa for the transfer of rights and privileges of the former contractor to you. I have the authority of my partners involved to propose that should you be willing to assist us in the transaction, your share of the sum will be 25% of the $21.5 million, 70% for us and 5% for taxation and miscellaneous expenses. The business itself is 100% safe, on your part provided you treat it with utmost secrecy and confidentiality. Also your area of specialization is not a hindrance to the successful execution of this transaction. I have reposed my confidence in you and hope that you will not disappoint me. Endeavor to contact me immediately my e-mail address whether or not you are interested in this deal. If you are not, it will enable me scout for another foreign partner to carry out this deal I want to assure you that my partners and myself are in a position to make the payment of this claim possible provided you can give us a very strong Assurance and guarantee that our share will be secured and please remember to treat this matter as very confidential matter, because we will not comprehend with any form of exposure as we are still in active Government Service and remember once again that time is of the essence in this business. I wait in anticipation of your fullest co-operation. Yours faithfully, JOSEPH EDWARD From jet at spies.com Sat Jun 1 16:21:28 2002 From: jet at spies.com (jet) Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 16:21:28 -0700 Subject: BBC hijacks TiVo recorders In-Reply-To: <4C6230F4-75B2-11D6-B774-0050E439C473@got.net> References: <4C6230F4-75B2-11D6-B774-0050E439C473@got.net> Message-ID: >By the way, so far my Ultimate TV hasn't tried any such Big Brother tricks on me. Though they may have their own corporate clowns looking for revenue enhancement. Downloaded ads that play before every recorded show can be viewed. Schemes to disable fast-forwarding through commercials. Back when I had an UTV, there were ads displayed whenever you went into grid that displayed TV listings. I found that pretty damn annoying as well. As for UTV trying any tricks, well, the division no longer exists, as I understand it. Some elements of the UTV team were folded into another part of the organization. -- J. Eric Townsend -- jet spies com buy stickers: http://www.spies.com/jet/store.html to support the artcar: http://www.spies.com/jet/artcar.html Looking for vets who served with USASSG/ACSI/MACV in Vietnam, 1967-1970. From tktluys10l at bellsouth.net Sat Jun 1 15:19:25 2002 From: tktluys10l at bellsouth.net (tktluys10l at bellsouth.net) Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 17:19:25 -0500 Subject: Got Cash? [7qdrf] Message-ID: <200206012219.RAA32290@einstein.ssz.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 5320 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sat Jun 1 16:22:34 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 18:22:34 -0500 (CDT) Subject: BBC hijacks TiVo recorders In-Reply-To: <4C6230F4-75B2-11D6-B774-0050E439C473@got.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Jun 2002, Tim May wrote: > your corporate bosses the Law of Unintended Consequences. I foresee Everything has unintended consequences, the "Law" is spin doctor bullshit. -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From estone at synernet.com Sat Jun 1 16:36:38 2002 From: estone at synernet.com (Ed Stone) Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 19:36:38 -0400 Subject: 2 Challenge Gun Cases, Citing Bush Policy In-Reply-To: <200205312336.g4VNa0p35371@mailserver4.hushmail.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020601192253.00a03ec0@localhost> At 07:36 PM 5/31/02, you wrote: >http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/31/politics/31GUNS.html > >WASHINGTON, May 30 Two men charged with carrying pistols without a license >in the District of Columbia have invoked the Bush administration's >position on guns to seek the dismissal of their cases. > >Reversing decades of Justice Department policy, the Bush administration >told the Supreme Court this month that it believes the Second Amendment >protects an individual's right to possess firearms. > >Lawyers for the two men, Michael Freeman and Manuel Brown, say the >position is inconsistent with a ruling in the United States Court of >Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit. > >Today, the Justice Department urged the continued prosecution of the men. >The controlling precedent upholds the city's firearm statutes, "even >though it contains reasoning that is inconsistent with the position of the >United States," the department said in court papers Looks like it is the position of the Department of Justice of the United States of America that the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution conveys rights, as against potential Government powers to the contrary, for an Individual not in the military to keep and bear arms, albeit subject to reasonable regulation thereof. The Justice Department's urging of continued prosecution of the men looks like DOJ views a blanket proscription of an individual's possessing or bearing a firearm to be a reasonable regulation of firearms. Assuming that the current position of the DOJ is that it believes the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to possess firearms, then if a municipality can prevail in requiring that only police officers may posses guns, and pass Constitutional muster, can that municipality prevail in requiring that only police officers may enjoy free speech? Or petition the Government for redress of grievances? Or refuse to testify against themselves? Why not? Cases in which the United States Governmnent has found an individual's rights found in the United States Constitution essentially voidable by a city council are rare, I hope? Unusual? So pre-9/11? From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz Sat Jun 1 01:18:20 2002 From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 20:18:20 +1200 (NZST) Subject: PKI: Only Mostly Dead Message-ID: <200206010818.UAA423916@ruru.cs.auckland.ac.nz> >Peter Gutmann should be declared an international resource. Thankyou Nobody. You should have found the e-gold in your acount by now :-). >Only one little thing mars this picture. PKI IS A TREMENDOUS SUCCESS WHICH IS >USED EVERY DAY BY MILLIONS OF PEOPLE. Of course this is in reference to the >use of public key certificates to secure ecommerce web sites. Every one of >those https connections is secured by an X.509 certificate infrastructure. >That's PKI. "Opinion is divided on the subject" -- Captain Rum, Blackadder, "Potato". The use with SSL is what Anne|Lynn Wheeler refer to as "certificate manufacturing" (marvellous term). You send the CA (and lets face it, that's going to be Verisign) your name and credit card number, and get back a cert. It's just an expensive way of doing authenticated DNS lookups with a ttl of one year. Plenty of PK, precious little I. >The truth is that we are surrounded by globally unique identifiers and we use >them every day. URLs, email addresses, DNS host names, Freenet selection >keys, ICQ numbers, MojoIDs, all of these are globally unique! >"pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz" is a globally unique name; you can use that >address from anywhere in the world and it will get to the same mailbox. You can play with semantics here and claim the exact opposite. All of the cases you've cited are actually examples of global distinguisher + locally unique name. For example the value 1234567890 taken in isolation could be anything from my ICQ number to my shoe size in kilo-angstroms, but if you view it as the pair { , } then it makes sense (disclaimer: I have no idea whether that's either a valid ICQ number or my shoe size in kilo-angstroms). (This is very much a philosophical issue. Someone on ietf-pkix a year or two back tried to claim that X.500 DNs must be a Good Thing because RFC 822 email address and DNS names and whatnot are hierarchical like DNs and therefore can't be bad. I would suspect that most people view them as just dumb text strings rather than a hierarchically structured set of attributes like a DN. The debate sort of fizzled out when no-one could agree on a particular view). I think the unified view is that what you need for a cert is a global distinguisher and a locally meaningful name, rather than some complex hierarchical thing which tries to be universally meaningful. Frequently the distinguisher is implied (eg with DNS names, email addresses, "for use within XYZ Copy only", etc), and the definition of "local" really means "local to the domain specified in the global distinguisher". I'm not sure whether I can easily fit all that into the paper without getting too philosophical - it was really meant as a guide for users of PKI technology. Peter. From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sat Jun 1 18:38:07 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 20:38:07 -0500 Subject: CNN.com - Key Republican blasts new FBI guidelines - June 1, 2002 Message-ID: <3CF976FE.A18C13F3@ssz.com> http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/06/01/fbi.guidelines/index.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From remailer at aarg.net Sat Jun 1 22:30:06 2002 From: remailer at aarg.net (AARG! Anonymous) Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 22:30:06 -0700 Subject: 2 Challenge Gun Cases, Citing Bush Policy Message-ID: >and being able to kill each and every one from behind. >Don't expose yourselves -- always shoot from behind. But know this one thing Aim for the head, and use fragmenting/hydrashock ammo. Exploded heads seem to disturb others the most. From nessi at mjvn.co.za Sat Jun 1 15:13:11 2002 From: nessi at mjvn.co.za (anton@email.ky) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 00:13:11 +0200 Subject: HELP! Fw: Fw: OPT OUT NOW!!!! (KMM219200C0KM) Message-ID: <008701c209b9$86db1660$db871ac4@basil> I am sorry, but as you can see this email is very extensive. I have been trying to remove my address from these spammer lists. Please have a look at all the messages below to see what the problem is. Could you help to stop these spammers before they even get to my mailbox. I don't want to receive them at all. (Surely after all this effort someone will listen (read) and do something about this. If I wanted this stuff, no problem, but I don't and can't get rid of it.) I have also sent an online contact email to netvisionsenterprises.com with: "Please help to stop this spamming to anton at email.ky: I have included some of the mail received from one of your clients. I have also included the email I sent to the abuse@ address for some of the domains listed. These emails are harassment and unsolicited. They are deliberately programmed to not be able to opt out or unsubscribe. They also constantly use different email addresses. I want this to stop. Please help me." I also got the following of the MARC site ie: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=cypherpunks&m=102232666819061&w=2 List: cypherpunks Subject: FREE PORN GET OFF NOW!! From: susanwvwvjxmd at mailme.dk Date: 2002-05-25 11:53:26 [Download message RAW] cypherpunks at algebra.com FREE PORN ACCESS ALL THE PORN YOU CAN HANDLE!! DO ME NOW I WANT YOU TO CUM!!! http://www.netvisionsenterprises.com/pp to opt out removxcccc at excite.com you will be removed instantly plcurechaxf^nytroen(pbz One of the last emails read as follows: From Emailcentre at up369.com Sat Jun 1 11:05:09 2002 From: Emailcentre at up369.com (TORE AKESSON) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 02:05:09 +0800 Subject: An Information Message-ID: <200206011804.NAA30796@einstein.ssz.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3445 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sexwelkorea at hotmail.com Sat Jun 1 13:06:09 2002 From: sexwelkorea at hotmail.com (안녕하세요!!!) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 05:06:09 +0900 Subject: 안녕하십니까!! 오래간만입니다!!! ♡ Message-ID: <200206012011.PAA31669@einstein.ssz.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2495 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tfxwk at bol.com.br Sun Jun 2 06:11:05 2002 From: tfxwk at bol.com.br (tfxwk at bol.com.br) Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 09:11:05 -0400 Subject: SUPERCHARGE YOUR SEX LIFE FOR FREE Message-ID: <200206021354.g52DsgJ23014@webtv.webtv.com.ar> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1430 bytes Desc: not available URL: From awvov at mailmij.nl Sun Jun 2 06:11:14 2002 From: awvov at mailmij.nl (awvov at mailmij.nl) Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 09:11:14 -0400 Subject: SUPERCHARGE YOUR SEX LIFE FOR FREE Message-ID: <200206021354.g52DsoJ23021@webtv.webtv.com.ar> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1430 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fm-lists at st-kilda.org Sun Jun 2 01:40:22 2002 From: fm-lists at st-kilda.org (Fearghas McKay) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 09:40:22 +0100 Subject: BBC hijacks TiVo recorders In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020601103711.03487fb8@pop3.lvcm.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020601103711.03487fb8@pop3.lvcm.com> Message-ID: At 10:39 am -0700 1/6/02, Steve Schear wrote: > >[This sort of thing is why I will never consider buying networked >appliances that I don't feel are in my control. Has anyone considered >reverse engineering Windows for an open source release?] There is a commercial Windows package that does the same thing - circa $50, written in Edinburgh, called showshifter. They give you a choice of ways to access schedules that you buy seperately ie Digiguide so you can't be hijacked. http://www.showshifter.com/ f From fm-lists at st-kilda.org Sun Jun 2 01:42:01 2002 From: fm-lists at st-kilda.org (Fearghas McKay) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 09:42:01 +0100 Subject: BBC hijacks TiVo recorders In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020601103711.03487fb8@pop3.lvcm.com> Message-ID: At 3:08 pm -0700 1/6/02, jet wrote: > >However, the show didn't take up any user space, but was stored in >reserved system space that's kept around for use during software upgrades >and whatnot. And adult material available to children before the watershed? And whilst the programme was being recorded the instant live replay facility was lost as the machine was recording spam. f From ben at algroup.co.uk Sun Jun 2 03:25:22 2002 From: ben at algroup.co.uk (Ben Laurie) Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 11:25:22 +0100 Subject: BBC hijacks TiVo recorders References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020601103711.03487fb8@pop3.lvcm.com> Message-ID: <3CF9F292.3050703@algroup.co.uk> Steve Schear wrote: > BBC hijacks TiVo recorders > But viewers in the UK were surprised this week to find that the > second episode of the little-known BBC sitcom "Dossa and Joe" had > been recorded without their knowledge and added to the system's main > menu screen. Hmmm. My Tivo didn't record it. Cheers, Ben. -- http://www.apache-ssl.org/ben.html http://www.thebunker.net/ "There is no limit to what a man can do or how far he can go if he doesn't mind who gets the credit." - Robert Woodruff From schear at lvcm.com Sun Jun 2 12:47:14 2002 From: schear at lvcm.com (Steve Schear) Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 12:47:14 -0700 Subject: Another questionable decision from SCOTUS Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020602103545.0472cbd0@pop3.lvcm.com> In an obscure tax case decided this term, United States v. Craft, http://supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/00-1831.ZS.html a husband owed money to the I.R.S. and the I.R.S. put a lien on some of his property. Michigan, like a number of states, has a concept called "tenancy by the entireties," in which property can be owned by "the marriage" as a separate entity and, when it is, the husband and wife have no individual interest in it. The husband transferred the property to "the marriage," and then told the I.R.S. "Look, I don't own this stuff anymore, 'the marriage' does." The District Court found the transfer was not fraudulent and that the I.R.S. could not touch the property. The 6th Circuit affirmed. The Supreme Court noted that the legitimacy of the transfer was not disputed on appeal. The Court held that Michigan's concept of a marriage as a separate entity from its individual participants was nothing more than a legal fiction and, as a mere fiction, the I.R.S. could ignore it. O'Conner held that if the husband and wife didn't individually own the property, that meant no-one owned it, a result she found absurd. I am gravely troubled by this reasoning. As pointed out in Alexis de Tocqueville's truly brilliant analysis of the foundations of our American government (e.g., http://www2.bc.edu/~lynchtq/toc.html): "The government of the Union rests almost entirely on legal fictions. The Union is an ideal nation which exists, so to say, only in men's minds and whose extent and limits can only be discerned by the understanding. Everything in such a government depends on artificially contrived conventions, and it is only suited to a people long accustomed to manage its affairs, and one in which even the lowest ranks of society have an appreciation of political science." Of all the legal fictions in American government, one of the hardest to swallow is the fiction of a Supreme Court. Under this fiction, when certain individuals express opinions on various issues under certain conditions, we are to regard these opinions as, not merely the separate individual opinions of these few separate and individual persons, but the single opinion of something called a Court, which is said to have powers and responsibilities wholly separate from the individuals of whom it is comprised. These powers and responsibilities are said to flow from something other than, and more than, the mere composite or sum of those individuals. All the sources of these powers and responsibilities -- constitutions, laws, governments, social compacts written and unwritten -- all are themselves legal fictions, wholly made-up conventions. Indeed, law itself is the supreme legal fiction. The Justices should think long and hard before adopting a theory which disses the respect the citizenry has traditionally reposed in corporate entities and institutions that serve social purposes thought valuable. For as de Tocqueville rightly noted, that respect is essential to our republican form of government. The philosophy the Court espoused was so general that it cannot fail to encompass the Court itself -- and for that matter the Union -- in its generality. Every question the court asked of marriage can be asked of both the Union and the Court. If public land cannot be apportioned out to individual citizens, who owns it? And if judicial opinions do not represent the private opinions of individual justices -- if we get rid of this "Court" legal fiction -- can they be said to be the opinions of anyone? These are questions well worth asking. If their answers prove not to be wholly absurd, then neither is the question Justice O'Conner asked about who owns property in a marriage. If they are wholly absurd, then so is our form of government. steve From schear at lvcm.com Sun Jun 2 13:08:36 2002 From: schear at lvcm.com (Steve Schear) Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 13:08:36 -0700 Subject: 2 Challenge Gun Cases, Citing Bush Policy In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020601192253.00a03ec0@localhost> References: <200205312336.g4VNa0p35371@mailserver4.hushmail.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020602102950.04277898@pop3.lvcm.com> At 07:36 PM 6/1/2002 -0400, Ed Stone wrote: >At 07:36 PM 5/31/02, you wrote: >>http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/31/politics/31GUNS.html >> >>WASHINGTON, May 30 Two men charged with carrying pistols without a >>license in the District of Columbia have invoked the Bush >>administration's position on guns to seek the dismissal of their cases. >> >>Reversing decades of Justice Department policy, the Bush administration >>told the Supreme Court this month that it believes the Second Amendment >>protects an individual's right to possess firearms. >> >>Lawyers for the two men, Michael Freeman and Manuel Brown, say the >>position is inconsistent with a ruling in the United States Court of >>Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit. >> >>Today, the Justice Department urged the continued prosecution of the men. >>The controlling precedent upholds the city's firearm statutes, "even >>though it contains reasoning that is inconsistent with the position of >>the United States," the department said in court papers > >Looks like it is the position of the Department of Justice of the United >States of America that the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution conveys >rights, as against potential Government powers to the contrary, for an >Individual not in the military to keep and bear arms, albeit subject to >reasonable regulation thereof. > >The Justice Department's urging of continued prosecution of the men looks >like DOJ views a blanket proscription of an individual's possessing or >bearing a firearm to be a reasonable regulation of firearms. > >Assuming that the current position of the DOJ is that it believes the >Second Amendment protects an individual's right to possess firearms, then >if a municipality can prevail in requiring that only police officers may >posses guns, and pass Constitutional muster, can that municipality prevail >in requiring that only police officers may enjoy free speech? Or petition >the Government for redress of grievances? Or refuse to testify against >themselves? Why not? > >Cases in which the United States Governmnent has found an individual's >rights found in the United States Constitution essentially voidable by a >city council are rare, I hope? Unusual? So pre-9/11 I think whether the 2nd is enforceable against states and municipalities will depend upon the SC deciding to apply the 14th Amendment. The Supreme Court has long held that the 14th Amendment does not make all of the Bill of Rights applicable to the States. Only those rights the Court finds to be "fundamental" apply. To this day, several portions of the Bill of Rights, including the right to indictment by grand jury, to a jury trial in any common-law suit over $20, and to the rules of the common law in judicial review of jury fact-finding, have not been held to be fundamental and to this day are not applicable to the states. Is the right to keep and bear arms a fundamental right? Obviously the NRA would argue that it is. But the Supreme Court would be well within precedent if it were to hold that given modern conditions, a right to keep and bear arms, like a right to a jury trial for a 20-dollar dispute, can no longer be said to be so implicit in the concept of ordered liberty as to be fundamental. If it so held, the 2nd Amendment would remain applicable to the Federal Government, but would not apply to the States, which would be free to use their militia regulatory powers to regulate guns as they see fit. steve From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Sun Jun 2 11:31:25 2002 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 14:31:25 -0400 Subject: BBC hijacks TiVo recorders References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020601103711.03487fb8@pop3.lvcm.com> Message-ID: <3CFA647D.2090307@dragonsweb.org> Steve Schear wrote: > [This sort of thing is why I will never consider buying networked > appliances that I don't feel are in my control. Has anyone considered > reverse engineering Windows for an open source release?] > > BBC hijacks TiVo recorders > By Andrew Smith > Posted: 24/05/2002 at 23:22 GMT > > Users of the TiVo digital video recorder have reacted angrily to a > new sponsorship feature that automatically records certain > programmes, adverts and other promotional material. > > One of TiVo's more innovative features is its ability to recommend > programmes based on viewing habits, such as watching every episode of > a soap opera or every film starring a certain actor. > > But viewers in the UK were surprised this week to find that the > second episode of the little-known BBC sitcom "Dossa and Joe" had > been recorded without their knowledge and added to the system's main > menu screen. > > They were even more surprised to find that they won't be allowed to > delete the programme for one week, and that more sponsored recordings > are on the way. > ... > > > > From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Sun Jun 2 11:34:52 2002 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 14:34:52 -0400 Subject: BBC hijacks TiVo recorders References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020601103711.03487fb8@pop3.lvcm.com> Message-ID: <3CFA654C.4060406@dragonsweb.org> Steve Schear wrote: > [This sort of thing is why I will never consider buying networked > appliances that I don't feel are in my control. Has anyone considered > reverse engineering Windows for an open source release?] > > BBC hijacks TiVo recorders > By Andrew Smith > Posted: 24/05/2002 at 23:22 GMT > Last I knew, TiVo ran a customized Linux base OS, the source of most of which was publicly available. The recording app is proprietary, though, I think. jbdigriz From inf at insurancemail.net Sun Jun 2 12:25:17 2002 From: inf at insurancemail.net (IQ - Infinty Schools) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 15:25:17 -0400 Subject: Fast & Easy CE Message-ID: <3ab75101c20a6b$3a829510$3201a8c0@insuranceiq.com> Fast & Easy CE from Infinity Schools Lowest Prices! Courses starting at $45! 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Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 8833 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sun Jun 2 14:03:08 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 16:03:08 -0500 (CDT) Subject: 2 Challenge Gun Cases, Citing Bush Policy In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020602102950.04277898@pop3.lvcm.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Jun 2002, Steve Schear wrote: > longer be said to be so implicit in the concept of ordered liberty as to be > fundamental. If it so held, the 2nd Amendment would remain applicable to > the Federal Government, but would not apply to the States, which would be > free to use their militia regulatory powers to regulate guns as they see fit. States are not allowed to have militias in the US Consitution. They only get to appoint the officers. Congress manages 'The Militia' (which stands equal to the Army and Navy). It's interesting that the Constitution directs the States to raise armed forces independent of federal control in time of invasion. Why is that? How are the States to arm themselves if the 2nd doesn't apply to the individual? A look at the Constitution provides the following: The Constitution & Gun Rights: It's bigger than the 2nd alone This document is an ongoing project where I take comments and observations from others and post their questions and my replies. Some of this material is old and some is new. It is intended to demonstrate that when the Constitution as a whole is applied to sensitive issues it in fact provides clear direction on the limits and character of the relation between the the three arms of the government of the United States; federal, state, and individual. I assume that anyone commenting on this document is giving their explicit permission to include them with my replies unless otherwise noted. I would prefer that all discussion take place on the Cypherpunks public mailing list. I will submit all my responces to submissions to that list. If you don't wish to discuss this issue in a public forum please do not respond to me. I have no interest in private discussion on this topic. This country is going through a crisis of civil liberties and a fundamental loss of faith in the tenets of democracy. It is becoming more fascist (ie public management of private property) on a daily basis. In the near future it could become completely socialist (ie public management of public property and elimination of private property) in the name of the greater good. The belief that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the individual is in direct conflict with both the spirit and words of the Constitution. Legislative, judicial, and executive branch decisions and actions speak to this on a daily basis. One of the most controversial topics is the private ownership of weapons and the duty of the government to regulate the same. The current discussion on both sides is limited solely to the 2nd Amendment. Unfortunately this is a stillborn position because it misses fundamental issues and questions. To address those I have listed each of the relevant sections of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Perusal of these make it clear that the right of the individual to own and bear arms with no interference or regulation is a fundamental right of every American. This right is justified by a long history of abuse by political systems of the individual as well as a continous sequence of physical assaults on the citizenry. It is worth making special note that the Presidential claim to executive privilige regarding the use of military forces without Congressional permission is unconstitutional (see Article II). The Constitution clearly states the President is the commander in chief of the armed forces only after they have been called into action. And only Congress may call them into action unless it can not be convened. The President of the United States is not in the chain of command of the military forces without specific authorization from Congress. Until such time as that is given only Congress has the authority to direct and organize military activities. This means that the President may direct military forces only until Congress convenes. At that point Congress must decide whether to agree to commit the forces. Amendment 2, 4, & 9 provide in and of themselves sufficient grounds to find any federal involvement in the purchase, possession, or operation of a weapon to be unconstitutional. One of the most specious argumenst in this discussion is that 'the people' in the 2nd Amendment is not to be construed as meaning the individual. However, it is clear from the Constitution itself and other amendments, such as the 4th, that this simply is not so. The term 'the people' means that the decision regarding such issues is to be made at the level of the individual. In other words whether a particular individual agrees to participate is completely voluntary. THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. [ Note that the intent of the Constitution, and by extension those who represent us, is to provide freedom of choice (i.e. liberty) for each individual (i.e. 'ourselves and our posterity'). This means that any claim that 'the people' does not refer to the individual and their right to make individual choices is specious and misdirected. See the DoI, in particular the first two paragraphs for an expansion of the 'American' view of 'The People'. No, it's not law; It's better, it's first principle. It's the 'Authority' that 'The Law' rests own. The very bedrock of American society; We The People. ] Article I Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water; To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years; To provide and maintain a navy; To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces; To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions; [ Note it says 'the militia', not plural and definitely not state oriented since states are prohibited from raising or supporting troops. Note that it specificaly directs Congress and the President to use the Militia for internal issues only. The Army is for external issues only. No If, No And, No But. No 'National Interest', No Exceptions. ] To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress; [ This says Congress organizes, armes, and disciplines the militia - again nothing to do with the states and no implication of plurality. The only job the states have is appointing officers. One can argue over the wording of the training since it is ambigous. I interpet "..., reserving to the states repesctively, the appointment of the officers, .." as being a single clause and not carrying over to "... authority of training ...". ] No state shall, without the consent of Congress, lay any duty of tonnage, keep troops, or ships of war in time of peace, enter into any agreement or compact with another state, or with a foreign power, or engage in war, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent danger as will not admit of delay. [ This last paragraph is of special importance. It directs the states to provide for their self defence during times of truly imminent danger. There is also the implication of immediate responce. Yet the state can not keep troops or even collect taxes to this end. This also excludes the Militia since it is under federal control and can't be used by the states without federal consent. In other words they are not to base their responce solely on state or federal employees. The implication is that each state is directed to provide for individual firearms ownership, on a voluntary basis. It's also worth noting that if the US is actualy invaded and the federal forces are activated the states are still directed to raise forces independently of the federal forces, and these forces would be under state control and operated in parallel with federal forces. In addition this delegates the states to independant resistance even if the federal authorities surrender. It is a fundamental recognition of the states independence. [1] ] Article II Section 2. The President shall be commander in chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several states, when called into the actual service of the United States; he may require the opinion, in writing, of the principal officer in each of the executive departments, upon any subject relating to the duties of their respective offices, and he shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment. [ This last paragraph describes how the President takes control of the military. It is only after Congress agrees to release the authority. Normal day to day training and patrol duties are responsible to Congress only. ] Article IV Section 4. The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government, and shall protect each of them against invasion; and on application of the legislature, or of the executive (when the legislature cannot be convened) against domestic violence. [ Note this says that federal forces can not be employeed within a state without the explicit permission of the state government during periods of domestic violence. In other words "rioting in the streets" is not a sufficient condition for forced federal involvement through martial law. The state legislature is the prefered authority unless it can't be convened in time. In that case the state governor can make the decision but as soon as the state legislature is convened he's out of the picture. This means that states always have the option of refusing federal assisstance. This means the various forced tax and funds refusal threats of the federal government are unconstitutional. This means states have the option of opting out of any federal gun control regulations. As an extension, this guarantees States the right to leave the Union. ] THE BILL OF RIGHTS The Conventions of a number of the States having, at the time of adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added, and as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government will best insure the beneficent ends of its institution; [ Hmmmm, now what do you think they mean by that?...Government is 'Good'? I think not. ] Resolved, by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, two-thirds of both Houses concurring, that the following articles be proposed to the Legislatures of the several States, as amendments to the Constitution of the United States; all or any of which articles, when ratified by three-fourths of the said Legislatures, to be valid to all intents and purposes as part of the said Constitution, namely: Amendment II A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed. [ This one really speaks for itself once you've understood the rest. They are actualy speaking of *two* seperate entities - the single federal Militia *and* the individual citizen. They are *not* one and the same. ] Amendment III No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law. Amendment IV The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. [ Our current society has a problem with what is understood to be 'reasonable'. This is a strong indication that we need to create a new amendment to better describe the interface, expectations, and limits of actions regarding state representatives and the individual. The only other option is to eliminate laws respecting consensual crimes such as individual drug use, abortion, etc. Arguments based on 'community standard' are inherently broken. It implies the community has some homogenious standard, there is certainly no indication of authority to sample the populate with respect to this question. The religious and free speech and press clauses prohibit it. It further prohibits laws and acts respecting law enforcement based on statistical averages, profiles, mass searches, bumper stickers, public statements not inciting something worse than domestic violence, etc. Note that this *does* give Congress the option of training the militia for operations involving nuclear, biological, or chemical attack for domestic use. (I believe that any such use must not allow weapons for other than personal defence to these federal forces. No tanks, bombs, missiles, etc.) You can't use an individuals beliefs as a basis for law. In that case, with no sample, the only question is would any citizen object to the behaviour? It is obvious the question must be answered in the negative since you have such an example at hand from the community. This effectively eliminates consensual crimes. If an activity does not cause physical harm to a person, their property, or a voluntary public trust it can't be made against the law at the federal level. (I don't believe a coersive public trust can exist under our Constitution. You can't punish a state or throw a citizen in jail because they object to participate in federal programs. Any federal programs.) ] Amendment IX The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. [ This one is really short and sweet. If anybody has a right then everybody has the right. There are no womens rights, gay rights, or minority rights; only human rights. This amendment prevents the government from even addressing what a persons rights are by the simple expedient that it prevents the federal or state government from even enumerating what they aren't. In other words unless the authority over some activity is proscribed in the Constitution the question of jurisdiction and decision are the individual states. It also means that the Supreme Court is prevented from using rulings that are of the enumerable type. In other words, simply because there isn't a directive in the Constitution is not sufficient reason to deny the individual the right of expression, or choice of execution. So arguments such as 'assissted suicide" isn't a right because there is no indication in the Constitution are specious and deny recognized fundamental individual rights in the 1st Amendment. So, in the case of gun control if there is a question at the federal level of jurisdiction (ie "What is meant by 'the people'?) the decision goes to the states and their individual constitutions. If it's not covererd in their individual constitutions then individuals in those states may make the decision on an individual basis. The Constitution is designed to fail-safe under questions of federal authority to the states or the individual. If Congress can't provide a delegate entry in the Constitution per the 10 th. it must suggest a constitutional amendment to the states. The current question of gun control has only two outcomes. Either individuals have their right to own guns recognized or the Congress and the state legislatures are required to mold an amendment to clarify the 2nd Amendment. The states can always stop federal aquisition of new authority at this point by simply refusing to put the amendment up for vote. At this point the states have a tacit admission of their supreme authority in such questions. ] Amendment X The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people. [ This amendment severely limits what the federal level of authority covers. It requires the Congress to provide a delegate, one or more sentences, in the Constition for all laws (and I believe for all suggested bills as well). it further specifies that in questions of dispute the decision goes to the individual states and their republican governments (ie state constitution). If the indvidual states don't regulate the activity it is up to the individual to participate voluntarily. The United States of America is a balkanized collection if independant states who voluntarily give up limited authority to the federal level, they must explicitly agree to this to become a state. ] The above document was submitted to the Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer, it has been expanded since that time. As a result I received various replies. My comments on the replies are included below along with quotes from the replies to clarify context. From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sun Jun 2 14:09:17 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 16:09:17 -0500 Subject: CNN.com - Classified communication parts sold on eBay, Air Force investigates - June 2, 2002 Message-ID: <3CFA897D.D9E0CC04@ssz.com> http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/06/02/arms.parts.reut/index.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sun Jun 2 14:12:04 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 16:12:04 -0500 Subject: Slashdot | When Should File Formats Be Placed in the Public Domain? Message-ID: <3CFA8A24.C1ECA990@ssz.com> http://slashdot.org/articles/02/06/02/157208.shtml?tid=155 -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sun Jun 2 14:13:01 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 16:13:01 -0500 Subject: Slashdot | The Illusion of Spectrum Scarcity Message-ID: <3CFA8A5D.9C4711B5@ssz.com> http://slashdot.org/articles/02/06/02/1251233.shtml?tid=95 -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Sun Jun 2 16:17:18 2002 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 16:17:18 -0700 Subject: 2 Challenge Gun Cases, Citing Bush Policy In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020602102950.04277898@pop3.lvcm.com> Message-ID: <001201c20a8b$a775c3c0$84c5efd1@LUCKYVAIO> Steve Schear wrote: > I think whether the 2nd is enforceable against states and > municipalities > will depend upon the SC deciding to apply the 14th Amendment. > The Supreme > Court has long held that the 14th Amendment does not make all > of the Bill > of Rights applicable to the States. Only those rights the > Court finds to be > "fundamental" apply. To this day, several portions of the > Bill of Rights, > including the right to indictment by grand jury, to a jury > trial in any > common-law suit over $20, and to the rules of the common law > in judicial > review of jury fact-finding, have not been held to be > fundamental and to > this day are not applicable to the states. Steve is correct that the question if the 2nd Amendment imposes limits on the ability of the States to regulate arms closely relates to whether the Supreme Court holds that the 14th Amendment extends 2nd Amendment's reach to the States. However, the answer to this question is not one that will need to be decided in the future. It has been decided over 125 years ago in one of the first test cases of the then new 14th Amendment In United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U.S. 542 (1876), the Supreme Court held that: "The government of the United States, although it is, within the scope of its powers, supreme and beyond the States, can neither grant nor secure to its citizens rights or privileges which are not expressly or by implication placed under its jurisdiction. All that cannot be so granted or secured are left to the exclusive protection of the States." "The right to bear arms is not granted by the Constitution; neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence. The second amendment means no more than that it shall not be infringed by Congress, and has no other effect than to restrict the powers of the national government." As you can see by reading the entire case, the Court held not only that the 14th Amendment does not extend the 2nd Amendment to the States, but also held that the States are free to regulate firearms at their leisure, in effect, the Court held that the 2nd Amendment solely constrains Congress from infringing upon the right to keep and bear arms while leaving the Executive free to infringe upon this right, or deny its exercise entirely, at will. In their ruling, the Supreme Court of course utterly ignored the legislative history of the 14th Amendment that shows that the 14th Amendment was put in place precisely to ensure, amongst other civil rights, that the newly freed blacks would be able to arm themselves as a protection from their militarily beaten, but no less racist, white neighbors. Under Cruikshank, Congress may not pass a bill infringing on the right of the citizens to keep and bear arms, but a Presidential Executive Order that all private citizens are to turn in their guns tomorrow passes Constitutional muster. The Supreme Court slightly soften their contention that the 2nd Amendment was not worth the parchment it is written on (at least when it comes to, horrors, blacks with guns) ten years later in Presser v. Illinois, 116 U.S. 252 (1886). "The provision in the Second Amendment to the Constitution, that 'the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed,' is a limitation only on the power of Congress and the national government, and not of the States. But in view of the fact that all citizens capable of bearing arms constitute the reserved military force of the national government as well as in view of its general powers, the States cannot prohibit the people from keeping and bearing arms, so as to deprive the United States of their rightful resource for maintaining the public security." Unfortunately, while at first glance being rather favorable to the right to keep and bear arms, Court in Presser did not overturn the Court's earlier determination in Cruikshank that the 14th Amendment does not extend the 2nd Amendment to the States. While the Court has in the well over 100 years that have since passed extended virtually the entire Bill of Rights to the States via the 14th Amendment, it has failed to so with the 2nd Amendment. The decision in Cruikshank that the 14th Amendment does not extend the 2nd Amendment to the States stands has not only been made by the Supreme Court, the decision stands to this day. --Lucky (IANAL) From joinforfree at gmx.net Sun Jun 2 07:19:21 2002 From: joinforfree at gmx.net (John Doe) Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 16:19:21 +0200 Subject: Stop The MLM Insanity !! Message-ID: <200206021424.JAA05605@einstein.ssz.com> Greetings! You are receiving this letter because you have expressed an interest in receiving information about online business opportunities. If this is erroneous then please accept my most sincere apology. To remove your email from this list please hit reply and place "REMOVE" in the subject line and this will be done instantly. Please accept my sincere apology if by receiving this email offends you in any way at all. If you've been burned, betrayed, and back-stabbed by multi-level marketing, MLM, then please read this letter. 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With your permission, I'd like to send you a brief letter that will tell you WHY MLM doesn't work for most people and will then introduce you to something so new and refreshing that you'll wonder why you haven't heard of this before. I promise that there will be NO unwanted follow up, NO sales pitch, no one will call you, and your email address will only be used to send you the information. Period. To receive this free, life-changing information, simply click Reply, type "Send Info" in the Subject box and hit Send. I'll get the information to you within 24 hours. Just look for the words MLM WALL OF SHAME in your Inbox. Cordially, John Doe P.S. Someone recently sent the letter to me and it has been the most eye-opening, financially beneficial information I have ever received. I honestly believe that you will feel the same way once you've read it. And it's FREE! -------------------- E-Mail sent using the Free Trial Version of WorldMerge, the fastest and easiest way to send personalized e-mail messages. For more information visit http://www.coloradosoft.com/worldmrg 70493 From marketing at scnyc.com Sun Jun 2 13:31:54 2002 From: marketing at scnyc.com (One to One The client's Perspective) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 16:31:54 -0400 Subject: One to One The client's Perspective June 3, 2002 13650 Message-ID: One to one The Client's Perspective Recruiters and corporate HR execs are on the same team?but do they know it? Find out if these matchmakers are all-for-one or going one-on-one in Part I this Multi-part feature. by Lisa Micali In a perfect world, recruiters and HR executives would have shared goals, mutual respect and a completely trusting relationship with the company's short- and long-term objectives in mind. Yet, the perception that recruiters are merely commission-hungry sales people still exists, despite solid gains in professional advancement, training and development. In order to better understand how changes throughout the industry are impacting this symbiotic relationship, Recruiter.com asked HR professionals to share their views and forecasts. The Interviewees Steven A. Blau, Second Vice President, Human Resources at Travelers Insurance. David Meyer, Director of human resources at Neurogen Corporation Audrey Blauner Vice President of human resources at 24/7 Real Media Terry Dyckman Vice President of human resources at Saba Software Meet the Interviewees ( click here ) The Questions What impact have the job boards played in the recruitment process? How do you choose recruiters? What are the key hurdles or stumbling blocks that can come up during the recruitment process? Describe a brief success or horror story in working with a recruiter. How do you see talent acquisition evolving over the next 3-5 years? For the answers ( click here ) To unsubscribe ( click here ) customer service 973-691-2000 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4192 bytes Desc: not available URL: From marketing at scnyc.com Sun Jun 2 13:31:55 2002 From: marketing at scnyc.com (One to One The client's Perspective) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 16:31:55 -0400 Subject: One to One The client's Perspective June 3, 2002 13652 Message-ID: One to one The Client's Perspective Recruiters and corporate HR execs are on the same team?but do they know it? Find out if these matchmakers are all-for-one or going one-on-one in Part I this Multi-part feature. by Lisa Micali In a perfect world, recruiters and HR executives would have shared goals, mutual respect and a completely trusting relationship with the company's short- and long-term objectives in mind. Yet, the perception that recruiters are merely commission-hungry sales people still exists, despite solid gains in professional advancement, training and development. In order to better understand how changes throughout the industry are impacting this symbiotic relationship, Recruiter.com asked HR professionals to share their views and forecasts. The Interviewees Steven A. Blau, Second Vice President, Human Resources at Travelers Insurance. David Meyer, Director of human resources at Neurogen Corporation Audrey Blauner Vice President of human resources at 24/7 Real Media Terry Dyckman Vice President of human resources at Saba Software Meet the Interviewees ( click here ) The Questions What impact have the job boards played in the recruitment process? How do you choose recruiters? What are the key hurdles or stumbling blocks that can come up during the recruitment process? Describe a brief success or horror story in working with a recruiter. How do you see talent acquisition evolving over the next 3-5 years? For the answers ( click here ) To unsubscribe ( click here ) customer service 973-691-2000 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4192 bytes Desc: not available URL: From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Sun Jun 2 16:57:36 2002 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 16:57:36 -0700 Subject: FC: Hollywood wants to plug "analog hole," regulate A-D In-Reply-To: <200205312039.g4VKdCn08062@server1.repliweb.com> Message-ID: <001d01c20a91$483d2e60$84c5efd1@LUCKYVAIO> Mike wrote: > And what's to prevent it from happening at a high level if > there's enough profit in it? MPAA is a tiny market compared > to the rest of the electronics industry - it will be easy to > bypass the law on a huge scale. You don't need to be a > "sufficiently talented electrical engineer" when you can go > across the border, buy 1000 simple/cheap devices and bring > 'em back in your pickup truck. Nothing will prevent one in theory from manufacturing, trafficking, or possessing unapproved electronic devices. Just as nothing is presently preventing you from realizing fantastic margins by loading up your truck with bags of cocaine before crossing the border. What will limit the possession and distribution of non-MPAA approved consumer electronic devices in the future to a threshold compatible with the MPAA's revenue goals will be the mandatory 5-10 year minimum sentences those found in possession of such devices will face. Are you willing to do that time? Or would you rather pay the members of the MPAA some $20 or 30 per month subscription fee that's being enforced by your approved device? No, continuing to watch your old video tapes on your old VCR is not an option after the upgrade and registration deadline for these infringement devices has passed. --Lucky From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Sun Jun 2 17:03:43 2002 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 17:03:43 -0700 Subject: When encryption is also authentication... In-Reply-To: <200205312039.g4VKdBh08039@server1.repliweb.com> Message-ID: <002501c20a92$20c8aac0$84c5efd1@LUCKYVAIO> Curt wrote: > I concur. The problem is that the most prevalent e-mail > program (Outlook) requires no user intervention as a default > when signing and/or encrypting a message with S/MIME. One > can override the default to "High Security" (requiring > password) only while the X.509 certificate is being installed. A locking screen saver has been part of Windows since I believe Windows 3.0, but certainly since Windows 95. Proximity cards that you keep in your pocket that automatically lock your Windows workstation when you step away from it are readily available in the marketplace. And yes, it generally is a bad idea to walk away from your workstation in a shared space while leaving yourself logged in as root. --Lucky From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Sun Jun 2 17:17:17 2002 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 17:17:17 -0700 Subject: When encryption is also authentication... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002d01c20a94$061f0910$84c5efd1@LUCKYVAIO> Mike wrote: > Thanks, that was very enlightening. The URL is good too - > they mention that "An electronic signature is defined as being: > > an electronic sound, symbol or process attached to or > logically associated with a contract or other record and > executed or adopted by a person with the intent to sign > the record. " > > I would never have thought of making a sound as part of a > signature! but for voice prints, it might be a good idea. IIRC, one of the reasons why sounds were included in the bill was to include the pressing of a telephone touch-tone key in the list of acts that can create a valid contract. --Lucky, "Press '1' to agree to transfer all your present liquid assets to me". From morlockelloi at yahoo.com Sun Jun 2 17:27:43 2002 From: morlockelloi at yahoo.com (Morlock Elloi) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 17:27:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: FC: Hollywood wants to plug "analog hole," regulate A-D In-Reply-To: <001d01c20a91$483d2e60$84c5efd1@LUCKYVAIO> Message-ID: <20020603002743.64369.qmail@web13201.mail.yahoo.com> > continuing to watch your old video tapes on your old VCR is not an > option after the upgrade and registration deadline for these > infringement devices has passed. Actually, for the last one or two years it's already illegal to sell or re-sell (even used) VCRs without macrovision shit. What will determine the outcome of this war is future availability of universal openly-programmable computing platforms (aka pee-cees). We will probably see regulations following those for handguns: for the first few decades everyone sported them, then they became heavily regulated. So expect a 5-year federal care for possession of an "unlocked" PC within one mile from schoolyard or an airport. ===== end (of original message) Y-a*h*o-o (yes, they scan for this) spam follows: Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From ashwood at msn.com Sun Jun 2 18:24:20 2002 From: ashwood at msn.com (Joseph Ashwood) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 18:24:20 -0700 Subject: FC: Hollywood wants to plug "analog hole," regulate A-D References: <001d01c20a91$483d2e60$84c5efd1@LUCKYVAIO> Message-ID: <014001c20a9d$be90d060$6501a8c0@josephas> Everything I'm about to say should be taken purely as an analytical discussion of possible solutions in light of the possibilities for the future. For various reasons I discourage performing the analyzed alterations to any electronic device, it will damage certain parts of the functionality of the device, and may cause varying amounts of physical, psychological, monetary and legal damages to a wide variety of things. There seems to be a rather siginficant point that is being missed by a large portion of this conversation. The MPAA has not asked that all ADCs be forced to comply, only that those in a position to be used for video/audio be controlled by a cop-chip. While the initial concept for this is certainly to bloat the ADC to include the watermark detection on chip, there are alternatives, and at least one that is much simpler to create, as well as more benficial for most involved (although not for the MPAA). Since I'm writing this in text I cannot supply a wonderful diagram, but I will attempt anyway. The idea looks somewhat like this: analog source ------>ADC------>CopGate----->digital Where the ADC is the same ADC that many of us have seen in undergrad electrical engineering, or any suitable replacement. The CopGate is the new part, and will not be normally as much of a commodity as the ADC. The purpose of the CopGate is to search for watermarks, and if found, disable the bus that the information is flowing across, this bus disabling is again something that is commonly seen in undergrad EE courses, the complexity is in the watermark detection itself. The simplest design for the copgate looks somewhat like this (again bad diagram): in----|---------------buffergates----out ----CopChip-----| Where the buffer gates are simply standard buffer gates. This overall design is beneficial for the manufacturer because the ADC does not require redesign, and may already include the buffergates. In the event that the buffer needs to be offchip the gate design is well understood and commodity parts are already available that are suitable. For the consumer there are two advantages to this design; 1) the device will be cheaper, 2) the CopChip can be disabled easily. In fact disabling the CopChip can be done by simply removing the chip itself, and tying the output bit to either PWR or GND. As an added bonus for manufacturing this leaves only a very small deviation in the production lines for inside and outside the US. This seems to be a reasonable way to design to fit the requirements, without allowing for software disablement (since it is purely hardware). Joe From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sun Jun 2 17:53:36 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 19:53:36 -0500 Subject: Reuters | Report: Al Qaeda Tells US to Get Ready for Attack Message-ID: <3CFABE10.2F2CBBE3@ssz.com> http://www.reuters.com/news_article.jhtml?type=topnews&StoryID=1038617 -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sun Jun 2 18:00:21 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 20:00:21 -0500 Subject: United Press International: U.S, tells Canadian students to stay home Message-ID: <3CFABFA5.97F0037F@ssz.com> http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=02062002-051305-6904r -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From andreabernethuaa at email.com Mon Jun 3 08:49:10 2002 From: andreabernethuaa at email.com (andreabernethuaa at email.com) Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 20:49:10 -1900 Subject: HGH: Treatments to reverse aging, enhance physical and mental performance, and strengthen the immune system!4980 Message-ID: <000005fc637a$00002441$00002414@email-com.mr.outblaze.com> As seen on NBC, CBS, CNN, and even Oprah! The health discovery that actuallyreverses aging while burning fat, without dieting or exercise! This provendiscovery has even been reported on by the New England Journal of Medicine.Forget aging and dieting forever! And it's Guaranteed! Click below to enter our web site: http://www.freehostchina.com/washgh/ Would you like to lose weight while you sleep! No dieting! No hunger pains! No Cravings! No strenuous exercise! Change your life forever! 100% GUARANTEED! 1.Body Fat Loss 82% improvement. 2.Wrinkle Reduction 61% improvement. 3.Energy Level 84% improvement. 4.Muscle Strength 88% improvement. 5.Sexual Potency 75% improvement. 6.Emotional Stability 67% improvement. 7.Memory 62% improvement. Click below to enter our web site: http://www.freehostchina.com/washgh/ ************************************************** If you want to get removed from our list please email at- standardoptout at x263.net (subject=remove "your email") ************************************************** From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sun Jun 2 18:57:05 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 20:57:05 -0500 Subject: The Hijackers We Let Escape Message-ID: <3CFACCF1.E647DFFC@ssz.com> http://www.msnbc.com/news/760647.asp? -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sun Jun 2 19:13:38 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 21:13:38 -0500 Subject: The Register - The Bastard goes email snooping Message-ID: <3CFAD0D2.8F826CCD@ssz.com> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/30/25547.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From honey9531 at btamail.net.cn Sun Jun 2 21:58:04 2002 From: honey9531 at btamail.net.cn (Marshal Wong) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 21:58:04 -0700 Subject: Gold Cards, No Credit Checks Message-ID: <200206030503.AAA15437@einstein.ssz.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1002 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jet at spies.com Sun Jun 2 23:32:36 2002 From: jet at spies.com (jet) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 23:32:36 -0700 Subject: BBC hijacks TiVo recorders In-Reply-To: <3CFA654C.4060406@dragonsweb.org> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020601103711.03487fb8@pop3.lvcm.com> <3CFA654C.4060406@dragonsweb.org> Message-ID: >Last I knew, TiVo ran a customized Linux base OS, the source of most of which was publicly available. The recording app is proprietary, though, I think. modified linux kernel + some other bits for booting. Anything interesting is probably proprietary. sources available from http://www.tivo.com/linux -- J. Eric Townsend -- jet spies com buy stickers: http://www.spies.com/jet/store.html to support the artcar: http://www.spies.com/jet/artcar.html Looking for vets who served with USASSG/ACSI/MACV in Vietnam, 1967-1970. From jet at spies.com Sun Jun 2 23:34:51 2002 From: jet at spies.com (jet) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 23:34:51 -0700 Subject: BBC hijacks TiVo recorders In-Reply-To: <20020602072449.GB24016@solid.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020601103711.03487fb8@pop3.lvcm.com> <20020602072449.GB24016@solid.net> Message-ID: At 0:24 -0700 2002/06/02, Marc wrote: >To be honest, the complaints about this are excessive. The problem >isn't that the TiVo recorded a promotional show, it's that it recorded a >show that has some semi-adult content in it and parental controls don't >restrict promotional recordings. ...and they did this at the request of the BBC who paid them to do it. yeesh. I don't think anyone came out of this looking good. >UltimateTV surprisingly is less intrusive, it doesn't have to use the >phone at all (except for standard DirecTV PPV calls) and uses the >downstream from the dish to verify subscriptions. making it easier to bypass paying for service than it is on the TiVo, just activate the right tier and presto, UTV service. -- J. Eric Townsend -- jet spies com buy stickers: http://www.spies.com/jet/store.html to support the artcar: http://www.spies.com/jet/artcar.html Looking for vets who served with USASSG/ACSI/MACV in Vietnam, 1967-1970. From jaenicke at openssl.org Sun Jun 2 14:46:25 2002 From: jaenicke at openssl.org (Lutz Jaenicke) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 23:46:25 +0200 Subject: [ANNOUNCE] OpenSSL 0.9.1 beta 1 released Message-ID: <20020602234625.A27046@openssl.org> The first beta release of OpenSSL 0.9.7 is now available from the OpenSSL FTP site . Quite a lot of code changed between the 0.9.6 release and the 0.9.7 release, so a series of 3 or 4 beta releases is planned before the final release. To make sure that it will work correctly, please test this version (especially on less common platforms), and report any problems to . Application developers that use OpenSSL to provide cryptographic routines or SSL/TLS support are kindly requested to test their software against this new release to make sure that necessary adaptions can be made. Changes between 0.9.6x and 0.9.7 include: o New library section OCSP. o Complete rewrite of ASN1 code. o CRL checking in verify code and openssl utility. o Extension copying in 'ca' utility. o Flexible display options in 'ca' utility. o Provisional support for international characters with UTF8. o Support for external crypto devices ('engine') is no longer a separate distribution. o New elliptic curve library section. o New AES (Rijndael) library section. o Change DES API to clean up the namespace (some applications link also against libdes providing similar functions having the same name). Provide macros for backward compatibility (will be removed in the future). o Unifiy handling of cryptographic algorithms (software and engine) to be available via EVP routines for asymmetric and symmetric ciphers. o NCONF: new configuration handling routines. o Change API to use more 'const' modifiers to improve error checking and help optimizers. o Finally remove references to RSAref. o Reworked parts of the BIGNUM code. o Support for new engines: Broadcom ubsec, Accelerated Encryption Processing, IBM 4758. o PRNG: query at more locations for a random device, automatic query for EGD style random sources at several locations. o SSL/TLS: allow optional cipher choice according to server's preference. o SSL/TLS: allow server to explicitly set new session ids. o SSL/TLS: support Kerberos cipher suites (RFC2712). o SSL/TLS: allow more precise control of renegotiations and sessions. o SSL/TLS: add callback to retrieve SSL/TLS messages. o SSL/TLS: add draft AES ciphersuites (disabled unless explicitly requested). -- Lutz Jaenicke jaenicke at openssl.org OpenSSL Project http://www.openssl.org/~jaenicke/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sun Jun 2 22:45:24 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 00:45:24 -0500 Subject: Slashdot | SEC Settles Microsoft Accounting Investigation (Not even a slapped hand) Message-ID: <3CFB0274.FF91E13@ssz.com> http://slashdot.org/articles/02/06/03/0424200.shtml?tid=109 -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sun Jun 2 22:48:20 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 00:48:20 -0500 Subject: MATT DRUDGE // U-Turn: Bush admin outlines 'global warming' effects on America; acknowledges damage Message-ID: <3CFB0324.B589A024@ssz.com> http://www.drudgereport.com/flash91.htm -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From die at die.com Sun Jun 2 22:34:41 2002 From: die at die.com (Dave Emery) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 01:34:41 -0400 Subject: FC: Hollywood wants to plug "analog hole," regulate A-D In-Reply-To: ; from njohnsn@IowaTelecom.net on Fri, May 31, 2002 at 08:59:43PM -0500 References: <001d01c20a91$483d2e60$84c5efd1@LUCKYVAIO> <014001c20a9d$be90d060$6501a8c0@josephas> Message-ID: <20020603013441.C27364@die.com> On Fri, May 31, 2002 at 08:59:43PM -0500, Neil Johnson wrote: > Remember it only requires ONE high-quality non-watermarked analog to digital > copy to make it on the net and it's all over. And that is what this whole nonsensical scheme founders on. There are probably 300-500 million existing sound cards out there and at least millions of existing NTSC analog capture cards. Many if not most can do acceptable fidelity conversion of analog audio and video to digital formats if programmed correctly. And there are even a few tens of thousands (or more) of new generation PCI cards that capture ATSC digital video (including HDTV) direct to disk in the clear. The MPAA cannot will these out of existance. Sure some are obselete ISA based designs, but there are certainly enough reasonably current boards around so that it will be a long long while before the population of working systems capable of performing analog to digital conversion of either watermarked audio or video reaches insignificance. And without that point being reached, anything else seems pretty ineffective as per your point above. And telling the public that they face serious jail time if they don't turn in that Creative Soundblaster from the old PC in the attic closet isn't going to fly. The sheeple may be sheep but even they aren't going to accept that kind of nonsense from Hollywood or any corrupt congress. I'd even venture to say that if this issue breaks out into the big time and the public really is faced with crippled devices that don't work and mandatory obselescence of existing expensive computer and entertainment systems with potential jail time for use of old equipment that the backlash will be so intense that raw public votes will control over Hollywood money. -- Dave Emery N1PRE, die at die.com DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2 5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18 From mail at 119photo.com Sun Jun 2 23:53:07 2002 From: mail at 119photo.com (사진병원) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 01:53:07 -0500 Subject: (광고) 낡고 찢어진 흑백사진을 고쳐요~~~~~~ Message-ID: <200206030653.BAA17475@einstein.ssz.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4957 bytes Desc: not available URL: From eresrch at eskimo.com Mon Jun 3 06:46:40 2002 From: eresrch at eskimo.com (Mike Rosing) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 06:46:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: FC: Hollywood wants to plug "analog hole," regulate A-D In-Reply-To: <20020603013441.C27364@die.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Dave Emery wrote: > And telling the public that they face serious jail time if they > don't turn in that Creative Soundblaster from the old PC in the attic > closet isn't going to fly. The sheeple may be sheep but even they > aren't going to accept that kind of nonsense from Hollywood or any > corrupt congress. > > I'd even venture to say that if this issue breaks out into > the big time and the public really is faced with crippled devices > that don't work and mandatory obselescence of existing expensive > computer and entertainment systems with potential jail time for > use of old equipment that the backlash will be so intense that > raw public votes will control over Hollywood money. I think that's what boils down to the "bottom line". Because there are so many units in place that can do the bypass, there will be enough time to create a backlash. There's already a backlash on "protected" CD's, mostly by consumers who can't play them on older CD players. It's just not gonna fly with the public, so that may be all it takes to stomp hollywood on this one. Time will tell I guess. Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike From targetemailextractor at btamail.net.cn Sun Jun 2 16:24:31 2002 From: targetemailextractor at btamail.net.cn (targetemailextractor at btamail.net.cn) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 07:24:31 +0800 Subject: Direct Email Blaster, Email extractor, email downloader, email verify ........... Message-ID: <200206022324.g52NObE07995@locust.minder.net> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 10129 bytes Desc: not available URL: From N_mlm at hotmail.com Mon Jun 3 07:27:54 2002 From: N_mlm at hotmail.com (Pplus) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 07:27:54 -0700 Subject: Time to Stop the MLM Insanity Message-ID: <200206031430.JAA22304@einstein.ssz.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 8785 bytes Desc: not available URL: From docy78 at lycos.co.kr Sun Jun 2 16:11:28 2002 From: docy78 at lycos.co.kr (한나영) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 08:11:28 +0900 Subject: [ 광 고 ] 휴대폰 여기서 사세요 여긴거의 공짜예요.이벤트중~ Message-ID: <200206022315.SAA11263@einstein.ssz.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3573 bytes Desc: not available URL: From estone at synernet.com Mon Jun 3 06:43:17 2002 From: estone at synernet.com (Ed Stone) Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 09:43:17 -0400 Subject: 2 Challenge Gun Cases, Citing Bush Policy In-Reply-To: <001201c20a8b$a775c3c0$84c5efd1@LUCKYVAIO> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020602102950.04277898@pop3.lvcm.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020603092148.009e23e0@localhost> At 07:17 PM 6/2/02, Lucky Green wrote: >In United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U.S. 542 (1876), the Supreme Court >held that: > >... > >"The right to bear arms is not granted by the Constitution; neither is >it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence. The >second amendment means no more than that it shall not be infringed by >Congress, and has no other effect than to restrict the powers of the >national government." > >.... the 2nd Amendment solely >constrains Congress from infringing upon the right to keep and bear arms >while leaving the Executive free to infringe upon this right, or deny >its exercise entirely, at will. The Executive is part of the "national government" that Cruikshank says is restricted by the 2nd amendment, yes? >Under Cruikshank, Congress may not pass a bill infringing on the right >of the citizens to keep and bear arms, but a Presidential Executive >Order that all private citizens are to turn in their guns tomorrow >passes Constitutional muster. Then Cruikshank didn't mean to include the President as part of the "national government" that it found to be restricted by the 2nd amendment? >,,,,ten years later in Presser v. >Illinois, 116 U.S. 252 (1886). > >"The provision in the Second Amendment to the Constitution, that 'the >right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed,' is a >limitation only on the power of Congress and the national government, >and not of the States. Again, Presser says the 2nd amendment restricts the president from such an executive order, yes? From InsightontheNews at broadbandpublisher.com Mon Jun 3 06:58:47 2002 From: InsightontheNews at broadbandpublisher.com (Insight on the News) Date: 03 Jun 2002 09:58:47 -0400 Subject: Insight on the News Email Edition Message-ID: <200206030958986.SM01140@broadbandpublisher.com> INSIGHT NEWS ALERT! A new issue of Insight on the News is now online. http://insightmag.com ---------------------------------------- Folks, you just won占퐐 believe how Canada has opened its doors to terrorists. John Berlau empties the whole can of beans in his latest expose, and you don占퐐 want to miss it! http://insightmag.com/news/254290.html And don占퐐 forget to check out Kelly O占폦eara占퐏 new expose of the latest way Congress and the mental health profession are getting together to pick our pockets. http://insightmag.com/news/254286.html Until next time, from the Bunker, I remain your newsman in Washington. ---------------------------------------- THE CANADIAN TERRORIST CONDUIT John Berlau reveals that terrorists have been streaming into Canada because of highly permissive immigration policies and lax laws that allow them to raise money for extremist organizations. Guess where they go from there? http://insightmag.com/news/254290.html ............................................... CONGRESS, MONEY, AND MADNESS Do you have anxiety disorder up to the insurance cap? Kelly O占폦eara exposes the latest mental health fad, now pending in Congress. . . and once again you占퐇l pay for it. http://insightmag.com/news/254286.html ............................................... SUMMA CUM LIBERAL Hans Nichols writes that commencement speakers at America's elite colleges and universities continue to lean leftward, with pop-culture icons topping the list for the baccalaureates. http://insightmag.com/news/254236.html ======================================== Liberals & Homosexuals Conspire to Subvert Seminaries Liberals who blame celibacy for the Catholic Church's pedophilia scandals are missing the real cause: seminaries that actively encourage homosexuality, moral laxity, and theological dissent all in the name of post-Vatican II "renewal." In Goodbye, Good Men, Michael S. Rose demonstrates that such seminaries are by no means rare. Help defend Christianity from assault by those who would subvert its message from within. Save over 30%! Order now. http://www.conservativebookservice.com?sour_cd=INT002501 ======================================== IRONY OF THE WEEK: CARVILLE CALLS FOR 占폗CCOUNTABILITY占� Jennifer Hickey tells us about a memo written by Democracy Corpsmen James Carville, Stan Greenberg and Bob Shrum. The title: "Re: Defining the 2002 Election, Toward Greater Accountability." http://insightmag.com/news/254241.html ............................................... HIJACKER TARGETED THE WHITE HOUSE IN 1974 Sam MacDonald writes that for George and Hattie Jean Ramsburg, the events of Sept. 11 are painful reminders of a 1974 hijacker's plot to fly a jetliner into the White House and kill Nixon. http://insightmag.com/news/254287.html ............................................... DEFIANT TRAFICANT UPS THE 占폫ED-FACE FACTOR占� Jamie Dettmer writes that apparently James Traficant plans to become only the second member of Congress in U.S. history to be expelled from the House because of corruption. http://insightmag.com/news/254288.html ======================================== INSIGHT SUBSCRIPTION SPECIAL! Save $50.83 (Off Our Newsstand Price) https://www.collegepublisher.com/insightsub/subform1.cfm ======================================== You have received this newsletter because you have a user name and password at Insight on the News. To unsubscribe from this newsletter, visit "http://insightmag.com/main.cfm?include=unsubscribe". You may also log into Insight on the News and edit your account preferences on the Web. If you have forgotten or don't know your user name and password, it will be emailed to you after visiting the following link: http://insightmag.com/main.cfm?include=emailPassword&serialNumber=16oai891z5&email=cypherpunks at ssz.com From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Mon Jun 3 08:04:09 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 10:04:09 -0500 Subject: CNN.com - Workplace e-mail is not your own - June 3, 2002 Message-ID: <3CFB8569.69213865@ssz.com> http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/internet/06/03/e.mail.monitoring/index.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Mon Jun 3 08:06:54 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 10:06:54 -0500 Subject: CNN.com - Inmate released -- 2 years after judge wrote order - June 3, 2002 Message-ID: <3CFB860E.D77448C9@ssz.com> http://www.cnn.com/2002/LAW/06/03/delayed.release.ap/index.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ms2906 at kornet.net Sun Jun 2 18:15:12 2002 From: ms2906 at kornet.net (온누리서비스 (주)) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 10:15:12 +0900 Subject: [광고]온누리가 보내드리는 토탈 할인서비스입니다!!!!! Message-ID: <200206030118.UAA13132@einstein.ssz.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 8029 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Mon Jun 3 08:40:38 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 10:40:38 -0500 Subject: Slashdot | Data Quality Act (Is this evil?) Message-ID: <3CFB8DF6.F1AEA78D@ssz.com> http://slashdot.org/articles/02/06/03/0455210.shtml?tid=103 -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Mon Jun 3 08:45:08 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 10:45:08 -0500 Subject: The Register - Randomisation - IBM's answer to Web privacy (Sounds Cool so far...) Message-ID: <3CFB8F04.30717B9A@ssz.com> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/23/25551.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jaenicke at openssl.org Mon Jun 3 01:49:46 2002 From: jaenicke at openssl.org (Lutz Jaenicke) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 10:49:46 +0200 Subject: [ANNOUNCE] OpenSSL 0.9.7 beta 1 released In-Reply-To: <20020602234625.A27046@openssl.org>; from Lutz Jaenicke on Sun, Jun 02, 2002 at 11:46:25PM +0200 References: <20020602234625.A27046@openssl.org> Message-ID: <20020603104945.B14202@openssl.org> On Sun, Jun 02, 2002, Lutz Jaenicke wrote: > The first beta release of OpenSSL 0.9.7 is now available from the > OpenSSL FTP site . Quite a lot > of code changed between the 0.9.6 release and the 0.9.7 release, so > a series of 3 or 4 beta releases is planned before the final release. ... Of course, OpenSSL 0.9.7-beta1 has been released (not 0.9.1-beta1). Please excuse any confusion caused by the typo in the Subject: line. Best regards, Lutz -- Lutz Jaenicke jaenicke at openssl.org OpenSSL Project http://www.openssl.org/~jaenicke/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From estone at synernet.com Mon Jun 3 08:23:24 2002 From: estone at synernet.com (Ed Stone) Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 11:23:24 -0400 Subject: 2 Challenge Gun Cases, Citing Bush Policy In-Reply-To: <001201c20a8b$a775c3c0$84c5efd1@LUCKYVAIO> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020602102950.04277898@pop3.lvcm.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020603110216.00a2d430@localhost> And in 1908 in Twining, the USSC found that the 5th amendment was similarly a limitation upon the national government, not the state governments, i.e., the states are not required by the fifth amendment to abstain from requiring a defendant to incriminate himself in testimony. But the first 8 amendments have been progressively extended to the states by application of the 14th amendment. For example, the fifth circuit, just eight months ago, finds the invididual model prevails not only over the national government, but also the states, and it declares that Cruikshank fails to "establish any principle governing any of the issues.." regarding the 14th amendment's extension of the Bill of Rights to limit the power of the states. "13. In United States v. Cruikshank, 23 L.Ed. 588 (1875), the Court held that the Second Amendment "is one of the amendments that has no other effect than to restrict the powers of the National Government." Id. at 592. In Presser v. Illinois, 6 S.Ct. 580, 584 (1886), the Court, reaffirming Cruikshank and citing Barron v. Baltimore, 8 L.Ed. 672 (1833), held that the Second "amendment is a limitation only upon the power of congress and the national government, and not upon that of the state." And, in Miller v. Texas, 14 S.Ct. 874 (1894), the Court held, with respect to "the second and fourth amendments" that "the restrictions of these amendments operate only upon the federal power, and have no reference whatever to proceedings in state courts," citing Barron v. Baltimore and Cruikshank. As these holdings all came well before the Supreme Court began the process of incorporating certain provisions of the first eight amendments into the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, and as they ultimately rest on a rationale equally applicable to all those amendments, none of them establishes any principle governing any of the issues now before us." http://laws.lp.findlaw.com/5th/9910331cr0.html From tcmay at got.net Mon Jun 3 11:25:58 2002 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 11:25:58 -0700 Subject: Degrees of Freedom vs. Hollywood Control Freaks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5A1035C2-771F-11D6-B774-0050E439C473@got.net> On Monday, June 3, 2002, at 08:40 AM, Trei, Peter wrote: >> OnThe MPAA does not have to 'will them out of existance', or even make > them illegal. They plan to change the broadcast standard so they are > not supported. > > At least, this is my interpretation: > > The FCC has mandated a change to all-digital formats over the > next 5 years or so. After that, analog (NTSC) transmission will > be phased out. My strong hunch is that there is essentially no chance of this happening. For a mix of reasons which I'll just briefly list: Item: The mess with HDTV, which is of course the same issue, is continuing to get messier. Very few stations are broadcasting HDTV, even fewer (proportionately) are buying HDTV sets (*) (* Many of the big screen sets today are "HDTV-ready," but customers typically don't bother to set up the HDTV part, according to my local Circuit City salesdroids I've talked to. Typically the customers have a large collection of DVDs and are happy to use NTSC, albeit with the increased scan resolution available with stuff like "3:2 pulldown." Note: I have a Sony DVD-NS700P player which offers this "3:2 pulldown," but my 35-inch monitor is only NTSC-capable. Still, the resolution is enough at the distances I view from, and my library of DVDs ensures that I will be playing DVDs for years, even decades, to come. The next item explores this point.) Item: DVDs are the hottest thing out there. Customers around the world are buying them in stupendous numbers. They will be playing them on NTSC (or PAL and SECAM) televisions for decades to come. They will reject notions that they need to buy "all digital sets" which aren't backward compatible. (Had HDTV arrived earlier--and the first HDTV set I saw was in 1988-89, a large Sony monitor--and had DVDs been "HDTV-DVDs--then maybe, just maybe, the resolution might have been enough to cause the current DVD revolution to be a revolution for HDTV. But it didn't, and they didn't. And now the huge volume of DVDs pretty much means the current technology will be solidly entrenched for a decade to come.) Item: Most people simply don't care about getting a thousand lines of picture resolution. Just as they don't really care about audio quality, as shown by the popularity of heavily compressed MP3 and ear bud headsets. (Not all ear buds are bad. I use a pair of Etymotics which are better than my Grados and almost as good as my Stax electrostatics. And when I digitize my CDs for my iPod, I use the 256K samples per second MP3 setting.) item: Not only was the first generation of HDTV (like the Sony mentioned above) obsoleted by the "actual, final, we really mean it this time!" version of HDTV, but I just heard that the proposed MPAA/FCC/Cabal standards will obsolete the _current_ generation of HDTV. So those relatively small number of consumers who bought expensive HDTV receivers and monitors will be told "Oops." Will they buy yet another HDTV set-up? As the saying goes, " I don't _think_ so." Item: Friends of mine have systems which reflect a more realistic, and even anarchic (yay!), way that ultra high resolution will enter households. First, they have several hundred laser discs, the old kind, which they want to play. Second, they have about as many DVDs, skewed toward recent releases, natch. Third, they have a 15-foot projection screen, motorized, with a commercial-grade Sony 3-lens projector capable of delivering, if I recall the specs correctly, about 1600 x 1280 at the screen. Maybe even more. (What I know is that projecting at this resolution on a screen this large is really great for computer demos!) They drive this system with an ATI Radeon 8500, the one with the video in/out extra stuff. Into this go there various laser disc and DVD players, or, I assume, directly from the DVDs in the computer they have the 8500 mounted in. (This 8500 card costs about $350, perhaps less by now, and has massive amounts of processing.) They played some DVDs on this system and the results were awesome: not a single visible scan line, even up close in front of this 15-foot screen. The biggest problem is of course brightness. Just no way to get high brightness over such a large surface without extraordinarily large amounts of projector power and the concomitant heat and bulb replacement costs. Viewing is best done in a completely dark room. Which is why I expect to stick with my 35-inch standard tube for a while. Item: Their system, my system, and tens of millions like them, are already giving so many "degrees of freedom" that the cat is already out of the bag. An attempt to make future DVDs incompatible with the tens of millions of existing systems will be met with anger, boycotts, and seeking of alternatives (e.g., a studio which continues to sell DVDs will win out over ones which offer only newer and incompatible versions). Throw in the pissed-off folks who bought HDTV systems in 1997-2003 and are then told that they'll have to scrap even those systems! Item: An entire generation of viewers is now used to watching DVDs on their computers. In dorm rooms, in bedrooms, even at work...people throw in a DVD and watch on the same screen they play games on, use for surfing the Net, etc. This won't change. This is of course just the "convergence" talked about by many. And the newer and larger LCD monitors, such as Apple's gorgeous 23-inch displays, will make watching on computer screens even more desirable. And there will be vast numbers of these systems out there. Item: The key issue: DVDs becoming the videotape of this generation. And there is no clamoring for more resolution. (In fact, few sources can "justify" more resolution. Double in fact, many human actors and actresses simply are not pleasant to look at at incredibly high resolutions!) I give the chance that Jack Valenti and his bunch will be able to force a conversion to a new video standard no chance of happening. Manufacturers will back off if they see sales trending downward (for the reasons cited above). > Until these standards are settled one way or the other, anyone > buying digital video equipment (HDTV or otherwise) runs a > very substantial risk of finding themselves with a set of expensive > and otherwise useless doorstops. Which is deterring huge numbers of people from even looking at HDTV. And so they buy more DVDs, which are vastly better than the VHS tapes they've been watching for years. > > Progress and innovation in electronics will occur only > at the whim (and in the interest) of the entertainment industry. > Actually, I disagree. There are many examples--MP3s, Napster, the system my friends have that I described, etc.--where the "street" does its own thing regardless of what the entertainment industry and Jack Valenti want. Final personal note: About a year ago I saw the absolutely gorgeous, splendiferous Apple 22-inch "Cinema Display." A huge TFT flat monitor, with a resolution of about 1600 x 1200. And they've now added a slightly larger version with an ever higher resolution. I see myself getting one of these and rigging it as my main high-res viewing system. (Yeah, these systems are not so great for families and for viewing parties, but, let's face it, when was the last time this kind of viewing happened to you? Most of my own viewing, and that of nearly everyone I know, is personal.) The degrees of freedom will win out over the control freaks. --Tim May "Ben Franklin warned us that those who would trade liberty for a little bit of temporary security deserve neither. This is the path we are now racing down, with American flags fluttering."-- Tim May, on events following 9/11/2001 From tcmay at got.net Mon Jun 3 11:38:17 2002 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 11:38:17 -0700 Subject: Degrees of Freedom vs. Hollywood Control Freaks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1236C61A-7721-11D6-B774-0050E439C473@got.net> On Monday, June 3, 2002, at 08:40 AM, Trei, Peter wrote: >> OnThe MPAA does not have to 'will them out of existance', or even make > them illegal. They plan to change the broadcast standard so they are > not supported. > > At least, this is my interpretation: > > The FCC has mandated a change to all-digital formats over the > next 5 years or so. After that, analog (NTSC) transmission will > be phased out. My strong hunch is that there is essentially no chance of this happening. For a mix of reasons which I'll just briefly list: Item: The mess with HDTV, which is of course the same issue, is continuing to get messier. Very few stations are broadcasting HDTV, even fewer customers (proportionately) are buying HDTV sets (*) (* Many of the big screen sets today are "HDTV-ready," but customers typically don't bother to set up the HDTV part, according to the local Circuit City salesdroids I've talked to. Typically the customers have a large collection of DVDs and are happy to use NTSC, albeit with the increased scan resolution available with stuff like "3:2 pulldown." Note: I have a Sony DVD-NS700P player which offers this "3:2 pulldown," but my 35-inch monitor is only NTSC-capable. Still, the resolution is enough at the distances I view from, and my library of DVDs ensures that I will be playing DVDs for years, even decades, to come. The next item explores this point.) Item: DVDs are the hottest thing out there. Customers around the world are buying them in stupendous numbers. They will be playing them on NTSC (or PAL and SECAM) televisions for decades to come. They will reject notions that they need to buy "all digital sets" which aren't backward compatible. (Had HDTV arrived earlier--and the first HDTV set I saw was in 1988-89, a large Sony monitor--and had DVDs been "HDTV-DVDs--then maybe, just maybe, the resolution might have been enough to cause the current DVD revolution to be a revolution for HDTV. But it didn't, and they didn't. And now the huge volume of DVDs pretty much means the current technology will be solidly entrenched for a decade to come.) Item: Most people simply don't care about getting a thousand lines of picture resolution. Just as they don't really care about audio quality, as shown by the popularity of heavily compressed MP3 and ear bud headsets. (Not all ear buds are bad. I use a pair of Etymotics which are better than my Grados and almost as good as my Stax electrostatics. And when I digitize my CDs for my iPod, I use the 256K samples per second MP3 setting.) item: Not only was the first generation of HDTV (like the Sony mentioned above) obsoleted by the "actual, final, we really mean it this time!" version of HDTV, but I just heard that the proposed MPAA/FCC/Cabal standards will obsolete the _current_ generation of HDTV. So those relatively small number of consumers who bought expensive HDTV receivers and monitors will be told "Oops." Will they buy yet another HDTV set-up? As the saying goes, " I don't _think_ so." Item: Friends of mine have systems which reflect a more realistic, and even anarchic (yay!), way that ultra high resolution will enter households. First, they have several hundred laser discs, the old kind, which they want to play. Second, they have about as many DVDs, skewed toward recent releases, natch. Third, they have a 15-foot projection screen, motorized, with a commercial-grade Sony 3-lens projector capable of delivering, if I recall the specs correctly, about 1600 x 1280 at the screen. Maybe even more. (What I know is that projecting at this resolution on a screen this large is really great for computer demos!) They drive this system with an ATI Radeon 8500, the one with the video in/out extra stuff. Into this go there various laser disc and DVD players, or, I assume, directly from the DVDs in the computer they have the 8500 mounted in. (This 8500 card costs about $350, perhaps less by now, and has massive amounts of processing.) They played some DVDs on this system and the results were awesome: not a single visible scan line, even up close in front of this 15-foot screen. The biggest problem is of course brightness. Just no way to get high brightness over such a large surface without extraordinarily large amounts of projector power and the concomitant heat and bulb replacement costs. Viewing is best done in a completely dark room. Which is why I expect to stick with my 35-inch standard tube for a while. Item: Their system, my system, and tens of millions like them, are already giving so many "degrees of freedom" that the cat is already out of the bag. An attempt to make future DVDs incompatible with the tens of millions of existing systems will be met with anger, boycotts, and seeking of alternatives (e.g., a studio which continues to sell DVDs will win out over ones which offer only newer and incompatible versions). Throw in the pissed-off folks who bought HDTV systems in 1997-2003 and are then told that they'll have to scrap even those systems! Item: An entire generation of viewers is now used to watching DVDs on their computers. In dorm rooms, in bedrooms, even at work...people throw in a DVD and watch on the same screen they play games on, use for surfing the Net, etc. This won't change. This is of course just the "convergence" talked about by many. And the newer and larger LCD monitors, such as Apple's gorgeous 23-inch displays, will make watching on computer screens even more desirable. And there will be vast numbers of these systems out there. Item: The key issue: DVDs becoming the videotape of this generation. And there is no clamoring for more resolution. (In fact, few sources can "justify" more resolution. Double in fact, many human actors and actresses simply are not pleasant to look at at incredibly high resolutions!) I give the chance that Jack Valenti and his bunch will be able to force a conversion to a new video standard no chance of happening. Manufacturers will back off if they see sales trending downward (for the reasons cited above). > Until these standards are settled one way or the other, anyone > buying digital video equipment (HDTV or otherwise) runs a > very substantial risk of finding themselves with a set of expensive > and otherwise useless doorstops. Which is deterring huge numbers of people from even looking at HDTV. And so they buy more DVDs, which are vastly better than the VHS tapes they've been watching for years. Most of them apparently see little compelling reason to upgrade to HDTV. > > Progress and innovation in electronics will occur only > at the whim (and in the interest) of the entertainment industry. > Actually, I disagree. There are many examples--MP3s, Napster, the system my friends have that I described, etc.--where the "street" does its own thing regardless of what the entertainment industry and Jack Valenti want. Final personal note: About a year ago I saw the absolutely gorgeous, splendiferous Apple 22-inch "Cinema Display." A huge TFT flat monitor, with a resolution of about 1600 x 1200. And they've now added a slightly larger version with an ever higher resolution. I see myself getting one of these, or the 30-inch version which will probably be available for the same price in 2 years--and rigging it as my main high-res viewing system. (Yeah, these systems are not so great for families and for viewing parties, but, let's face it, when was the last time this kind of viewing happened to you? Most of my own viewing, and that of nearly everyone I know, is personal.) The degrees of freedom will win out over the control freaks. --Tim May "Ben Franklin warned us that those who would trade liberty for a little bit of temporary security deserve neither. This is the path we are now racing down, with American flags fluttering."-- Tim May, on events following 9/11/2001 From ptrei at rsasecurity.com Mon Jun 3 08:40:15 2002 From: ptrei at rsasecurity.com (Trei, Peter) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 11:40:15 -0400 Subject: FC: Hollywood wants to plug "analog hole," regulate A-D Message-ID: > Dave Emery[SMTP:die at die.com] wrote: > > > On Fri, May 31, 2002 at 08:59:43PM -0500, Neil Johnson wrote: > > > Remember it only requires ONE high-quality non-watermarked analog to > digital > > copy to make it on the net and it's all over. > > And that is what this whole nonsensical scheme founders on. > > There are probably 300-500 million existing sound cards out > there and at least millions of existing NTSC analog capture cards. > Many if not most can do acceptable fidelity conversion of analog audio > and video to digital formats if programmed correctly. And there are even > a few tens of thousands (or more) of new generation PCI cards that > capture ATSC digital video (including HDTV) direct to disk in the clear. > > The MPAA cannot will these out of existance. > The MPAA does not have to 'will them out of existance', or even make them illegal. They plan to change the broadcast standard so they are not supported. At least, this is my interpretation: The FCC has mandated a change to all-digital formats over the next 5 years or so. After that, analog (NTSC) transmission will be phased out. There is currently a lot of work being done within the BPDG (Broadcast Protection Discussion Group) to provide watermark checking, cryptographic and physical protection of digital video and audio data all the way to the display device, and forbid 'complying devices' from having accessible unencrypted outputs or busses. There are even proposals that if a 'complying device' is found to be hackable, that there should be a backdoor to enable the manufacturer to modify or disable it remotely. Until these standards are settled one way or the other, anyone buying digital video equipment (HDTV or otherwise) runs a very substantial risk of finding themselves with a set of expensive and otherwise useless doorstops. Progress and innovation in electronics will occur only at the whim (and in the interest) of the entertainment industry. Check out the BPDG documents at http://bpdg.blogs.eff.org/archives/cat_bpdg_drafts.html Peter Trei Disclaimer: The above is my opinion only, and should not be misconstrued to represent the opinions of others. From tcmay at got.net Mon Jun 3 11:53:47 2002 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 11:53:47 -0700 Subject: Degrees of Freedom vs. Hollywood Control Freaks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3C8D1C1D-7723-11D6-B774-0050E439C473@got.net> On Monday, June 3, 2002, at 08:40 AM, Trei, Peter wrote: >> OnThe MPAA does not have to 'will them out of existance', or even make > them illegal. They plan to change the broadcast standard so they are > not supported. > > At least, this is my interpretation: > > The FCC has mandated a change to all-digital formats over the > next 5 years or so. After that, analog (NTSC) transmission will > be phased out. My strong hunch is that there is essentially no chance of this happening. For a mix of reasons which I'll just briefly list: Item: The mess with HDTV, which is of course the same issue, is continuing to get messier. Very few stations are broadcasting HDTV, even fewer customers (proportionately) are buying HDTV sets (*) (* Many of the big screen sets today are "HDTV-ready," but customers typically don't bother to set up the HDTV part, according to the local Circuit City salesdroids I've talked to. Typically the customers have a large collection of DVDs and are happy to use NTSC, albeit with the increased scan resolution available with stuff like "3:2 pulldown." Note: I have a Sony DVD-NS700P player which offers this "3:2 pulldown," but my 35-inch monitor is only NTSC-capable. Still, the resolution is enough at the distances I view from, and my library of DVDs ensures that I will be playing DVDs for years, even decades, to come. The next item explores this point.) Item: DVDs are the hottest thing out there. Customers around the world are buying them in stupendous numbers. They will be playing them on NTSC (or PAL and SECAM) televisions for decades to come. They will reject notions that they need to buy "all digital sets" which aren't backward compatible. (Had HDTV arrived earlier--and the first HDTV set I saw was in 1988-89, a large Sony monitor--and had DVDs been "HDTV-DVDs--then maybe, just maybe, the resolution might have been enough to cause the current DVD revolution to be a revolution for HDTV. But it didn't, and they didn't. And now the huge volume of DVDs pretty much means the current technology will be solidly entrenched for a decade to come.) Item: Most people simply don't care about getting a thousand lines of picture resolution. Just as they don't really care about audio quality, as shown by the popularity of heavily compressed MP3 and ear bud headsets. (Not all ear buds are bad. I use a pair of Etymotics which are better than my Grados and almost as good as my Stax electrostatics. And when I digitize my CDs for my iPod, I use the 256K samples per second MP3 setting.) item: Not only was the first generation of HDTV (like the Sony mentioned above) obsoleted by the "actual, final, we really mean it this time!" version of HDTV, but I just heard that the proposed MPAA/FCC/Cabal standards will obsolete the _current_ generation of HDTV. So those relatively small number of consumers who bought expensive HDTV receivers and monitors will be told "Oops." Will they buy yet another HDTV set-up? As the saying goes, " I don't _think_ so." Item: Friends of mine have systems which reflect a more realistic, and even anarchic (yay!), way that ultra high resolution will enter households. First, they have several hundred laser discs, the old kind, which they want to play. Second, they have about as many DVDs, skewed toward recent releases, natch. Third, they have a 15-foot projection screen, motorized, with a commercial-grade Sony 3-lens projector capable of delivering, if I recall the specs correctly, about 1600 x 1280 at the screen. Maybe even more. (What I know is that projecting at this resolution on a screen this large is really great for computer demos!) They drive this system with an ATI Radeon 8500, the one with the video in/out extra stuff. Into this go there various laser disc and DVD players, or, I assume, directly from the DVDs in the computer they have the 8500 mounted in. (This 8500 card costs about $350, perhaps less by now, and has massive amounts of processing.) They played some DVDs on this system and the results were awesome: not a single visible scan line, even up close in front of this 15-foot screen. The biggest problem is of course brightness. Just no way to get high brightness over such a large surface without extraordinarily large amounts of projector power and the concomitant heat and bulb replacement costs. Viewing is best done in a completely dark room. Which is why I expect to stick with my 35-inch standard tube for a while. Item: Their system, my system, and tens of millions like them, are already giving so many "degrees of freedom" that the cat is already out of the bag. An attempt to make future DVDs incompatible with the tens of millions of existing systems will be met with anger, boycotts, and seeking of alternatives (e.g., a studio which continues to sell DVDs will win out over ones which offer only newer and incompatible versions). Throw in the pissed-off folks who bought HDTV systems in 1997-2003 and are then told that they'll have to scrap even those systems! Item: An entire generation of viewers is now used to watching DVDs on their computers. In dorm rooms, in bedrooms, even at work...people throw in a DVD and watch on the same screen they play games on, use for surfing the Net, etc. This won't change. This is of course just the "convergence" talked about by many. And the newer and larger LCD monitors, such as Apple's gorgeous 23-inch displays, will make watching on computer screens even more desirable. And there will be vast numbers of these systems out there. Item: The key issue: DVDs becoming the videotape of this generation. And there is no clamoring for more resolution. (In fact, few sources can "justify" more resolution. Double in fact, many human actors and actresses simply are not pleasant to look at at incredibly high resolutions!) I give the chance that Jack Valenti and his bunch will be able to force a conversion to a new video standard no chance of happening. Manufacturers will back off if they see sales trending downward (for the reasons cited above). > Until these standards are settled one way or the other, anyone > buying digital video equipment (HDTV or otherwise) runs a > very substantial risk of finding themselves with a set of expensive > and otherwise useless doorstops. Which is deterring huge numbers of people from even looking at HDTV. And so they buy more DVDs, which are vastly better than the VHS tapes they've been watching for years. Most of them apparently see little compelling reason to upgrade to HDTV. > > Progress and innovation in electronics will occur only > at the whim (and in the interest) of the entertainment industry. > Actually, I disagree. There are many examples--MP3s, Napster, the system my friends have that I described, etc.--where the "street" does its own thing regardless of what the entertainment industry and Jack Valenti want. Final personal note: About a year ago I saw the absolutely gorgeous, splendiferous Apple 22-inch "Cinema Display." A huge TFT flat monitor, with a resolution of 1600 x 1024. And they've now added a slightly larger version with an ever higher resolution (1920 x 1200). I see myself getting one of these--or the 30-inch version which will probably be available for the same price in 2 years--and rigging it as my main high-res viewing system. (Yeah, these systems are not so great for families and for viewing parties, but, let's face it, when was the last time this kind of viewing happened to you? Most of my own viewing, and that of nearly everyone I know, is personal.) The degrees of freedom will win out over the control freaks. --Tim May "Ben Franklin warned us that those who would trade liberty for a little bit of temporary security deserve neither. This is the path we are now racing down, with American flags fluttering."-- Tim May, on events following 9/11/2001 From tcmay at got.net Mon Jun 3 12:26:07 2002 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 12:26:07 -0700 Subject: Many apologies for multiple deliveries! Message-ID: Sorry about the multiple deliveries! My mailer reported that delivery had failed and would be tried again during a later check of mail. While waiting, I added a few comments here and there, as I didn't think the earlier versions had gone out. Apparently my mailer lied to me. Sorry. --Tim May "Aren't cats Libertarian? They just want to be left alone. I think our dog is a Democrat, as he is always looking for a handout" --Unknown Usenet Poster From MAILER-DAEMON at mail.hal-pc.org Mon Jun 3 11:31:33 2002 From: MAILER-DAEMON at mail.hal-pc.org (MAILER-DAEMON at mail.hal-pc.org) Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 13:31:33 -0500 Subject: INCREASED PRODUCTIVITY MEANS MORE PROFIT. In-Reply-To: <200206031608.g53G8H702011@smtp2.info.com.ph> Message-ID: The domain home.com no longer accepts email. If you are trying to email someone with an @home.com email address you should contact them by other means to get their new email address. --- From marsese1 at rediffmail.com Mon Jun 3 13:37:30 2002 From: marsese1 at rediffmail.com (MRS MARIAM SESE SEKO) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 13:37:30 -0700 Subject: URGENT ASSISTANCE NEEDED Message-ID: <200206031058.FAA19829@einstein.ssz.com> Dear friend, I am Mrs. Sese-seko widow of late President Mobutu Sese-seko of Zaire, now known as Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). I am moved to write you this letter. This was in confidence considering my present circumstance and situation. I escaped along with my husband and two of our sons Solomon and Basher out of Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) to Abidjan, Cote d'ivoire where my family and I settled, while we later moved to settled in Morroco where my husband later died of cancer disease. However, due to this situation we decided to change most of my husband's billions of dollars deposited in Swiss bank and other countries into other forms of money coded for safe purpose because the new head of state of (Dr) Mr Laurent Kabila has made arrangement with the Swiss government and other European countries to freeze all my late husband's treasures deposited in some european countries. Hence, my children and I decided laying low in Africa to study the situation till when things gets better. Like now that president Kabila is dead and the son taking over (Joseph Kabila). One of my late husband's chateaux in Southern France was confiscated by the french government, and as such I had to change my identity so that my investment will not be traced and confiscated. I have deposited the sum Thirty Million United State Dollars (US$30,000,000,00.) With a security company for safe keeping. What I want you to do is to indicate your interest that you can assist us in receiving the money on our behalf, so that I can introduce you to my son (Solomon) who has the out modalities for the claim of the said funds. I want you to assist in investing this money, but I will not want my identity revealed. I will also want to acquire real/landed properties and stock in multi-national companies and to engage in other safe and non-speculative investments as advise by your good self. May I at this point emphasize the high level of confidentiality, which this upcoming project demands, and hope you will not betray the trust and confidence, which I repose in you.In conclusion, if you want to assist us, my son (Benson) shall divulge to you all briefs regarding this project, tell you where the funds are currently being maintained and also discuss remuneration for your services.For this reason kindly furnish us your contact information,that is your personal telephone and fax number for validation purpose and acknowledge receipt of this mail using the above email address. Yours sincerely, Mrs. Mariam M. Seseseko. From marsese1 at rediffmail.com Mon Jun 3 13:38:49 2002 From: marsese1 at rediffmail.com (MRS MARIAM SESE SEKO) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 13:38:49 -0700 Subject: URGENT ASSISTANCE NEEDED Message-ID: <200206031055.g53Atbu20910@waste.minder.net> Dear friend, I am Mrs. Sese-seko widow of late President Mobutu Sese-seko of Zaire, now known as Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). I am moved to write you this letter. This was in confidence considering my present circumstance and situation. I escaped along with my husband and two of our sons Solomon and Basher out of Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) to Abidjan, Cote d'ivoire where my family and I settled, while we later moved to settled in Morroco where my husband later died of cancer disease. However, due to this situation we decided to change most of my husband's billions of dollars deposited in Swiss bank and other countries into other forms of money coded for safe purpose because the new head of state of (Dr) Mr Laurent Kabila has made arrangement with the Swiss government and other European countries to freeze all my late husband's treasures deposited in some european countries. Hence, my children and I decided laying low in Africa to study the situation till when things gets better. Like now that president Kabila is dead and the son taking over (Joseph Kabila). One of my late husband's chateaux in Southern France was confiscated by the french government, and as such I had to change my identity so that my investment will not be traced and confiscated. I have deposited the sum Thirty Million United State Dollars (US$30,000,000,00.) With a security company for safe keeping. What I want you to do is to indicate your interest that you can assist us in receiving the money on our behalf, so that I can introduce you to my son (Solomon) who has the out modalities for the claim of the said funds. I want you to assist in investing this money, but I will not want my identity revealed. I will also want to acquire real/landed properties and stock in multi-national companies and to engage in other safe and non-speculative investments as advise by your good self. May I at this point emphasize the high level of confidentiality, which this upcoming project demands, and hope you will not betray the trust and confidence, which I repose in you.In conclusion, if you want to assist us, my son (Benson) shall divulge to you all briefs regarding this project, tell you where the funds are currently being maintained and also discuss remuneration for your services.For this reason kindly furnish us your contact information,that is your personal telephone and fax number for validation purpose and acknowledge receipt of this mail using the above email address. Yours sincerely, Mrs. Mariam M. Seseseko. From jenniferlindchburg211075 at aol.com Mon Jun 3 10:40:25 2002 From: jenniferlindchburg211075 at aol.com (jenniferlindchburg211075 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 13:40:25 -0400 Subject: easyily remortgage for BIG SAVINGS 2110754332221111 Message-ID: <200206031847.g53IlCO31896@linux.local> Need to remortgage but hate the hassle. See what rates we can offer without even talking to an agent..EVER! We want to help you get lower payments! http://61.129.81.99/tbone2/index33.html 2110754332221111 From ashwood at msn.com Mon Jun 3 14:50:47 2002 From: ashwood at msn.com (Joseph Ashwood) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 14:50:47 -0700 Subject: FC: Hollywood wants to plug "analog hole," regulate A-D References: <001d01c20a91$483d2e60$84c5efd1@LUCKYVAIO> <014001c20a9d$be90d060$6501a8c0@josephas> Message-ID: <008701c20b49$196bab80$6501a8c0@josephas> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Neil Johnson" To: "Joseph Ashwood" ; Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 6:59 PM Subject: Re: FC: Hollywood wants to plug "analog hole," regulate A-D > On Sunday 02 June 2002 08:24 pm, Joseph Ashwood wrote: > >> > > The MPAA has not asked that all ADCs be forced to comply, only that those > > in a position to be used for video/audio be controlled by a cop-chip. While > > the initial concept for this is certainly to bloat the ADC to include the > > watermark detection on chip, there are alternatives, and at least one that > > is much simpler to create, as well as more benficial for most involved > > (although not for the MPAA). Since I'm writing this in text I cannot supply > > a wonderful diagram, but I will attempt anyway. The idea looks somewhat > > like this: > > > > analog source ------>ADC------>CopGate----->digital > > > > Where the ADC is the same ADC that many of us have seen in undergrad > > electrical engineering, or any suitable replacement. The CopGate is the new > > part, and will not be normally as much of a commodity as the ADC. The > > purpose of the CopGate is to search for watermarks, and if found, disable > > the bus that the information is flowing across, this bus disabling is again > > something that is commonly seen in undergrad EE courses, the complexity is > > in the watermark detection itself. > > > > The simplest design for the copgate looks somewhat like this (again bad > > diagram): > > > > in----|---------------buffergates----out > > ----CopChip-----| > > > > Where the buffer gates are simply standard buffer gates. > > > > This overall design is beneficial for the manufacturer because the ADC does > > not require redesign, and may already include the buffergates. In the event > > that the buffer needs to be offchip the gate design is well understood and > > commodity parts are already available that are suitable. For the consumer > > there are two advantages to this design; 1) the device will be cheaper, 2) > > the CopChip can be disabled easily. In fact disabling the CopChip can be > > done by simply removing the chip itself, and tying the output bit to either > > PWR or GND. As an added bonus for manufacturing this leaves only a very > > small deviation in the production lines for inside and outside the US. This > > seems to be a reasonable way to design to fit the requirements, without > > allowing for software disablement (since it is purely hardware). > > Joe > > > Bzzzzztttt! Wrong Answer ! > > How do you prevent some hacker/pirate (digital rights freedom fighter) from > disabling the "CopGate" (by either removing the CopChip, finding a way to > bypass it, or figure out how to make it think it's in, "Government Snoop" > mode ) ? To quote myself "the CopChip can be disabled easily," last paragraph sentence begins with "For the consumer . . . " as has been pointed out by numerous people, there is no solution to this. With a minimal amount of electrical engineering knowledge it is possible for individuals to easily construct a new ADC anyway. > > Then the watermark can be removed. Which can and should be done after conversion. > Remember it only requires ONE high-quality non-watermarked analog to digital > copy to make it on the net and it's all over. You seem to be of the mistaken opinion that I believe this to be a good thing, when the design I presented was designed to minimize cost, of design, manufacture, and removal. I am of the fundamental opinion that this is not a legal problem, this is a problem of the MPAA and anyone else that requires a law like this to remain profitable is advertising incorrectly. The Hollywood studios have already found the basic solution, sell advertising space _within_ the program. In fact some movies are almost completely subsidized by the ad space within the movie. By moving to that model for primary revenue it is easy to accept that a massive number of copies will be made since that improves the value of the ad space in your next movie/episode. Of course I'm not involved with any studio so they don't ask my opinion. Joe From mv at cdc.gov Mon Jun 3 15:56:16 2002 From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret)) Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 15:56:16 -0700 Subject: Anthrax, barbed wired gags, stinkin' in Tennessee Message-ID: <3CFBF410.743ECD89@cdc.gov> Something stinks in Tenn, and its not the Gores this time: Among his recent cases was the death of Harvard University biologist Don Wiley, whose fall from a Memphis bridge in December fueled fears of terrorist kidnappings. The medical examiner also helped identify the body of Katherine Smith, 49, who was found burned beyond recognition in February the day before a hearing on federal charges of helping five Middle Eastern men obtain fake driver's licenses. MEMPHIS, Tenn. - Medical examiner O.C. Smith, who has worked on some of the city's most puzzling deaths, is at the center of another perplexing case: He was attacked over the weekend, bound with barbed wire and left with a bomb tied to his body. http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGABCF4U02D.html ---- The spooks are getting careless in Tenn. First they do the car-accident/injection thing with a anthrax-saavy microbiologist, who floats up 300 mi away, then a DMV-weenie-roast, now games with the coroner? What, was he going to tell? From tom at lemuria.org Mon Jun 3 07:12:41 2002 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 16:12:41 +0200 Subject: European Data Retention and Encryption for Dummies Message-ID: <20020603161241.A19768@lemuria.org> Hi everyone, I've been on this list before, but didn't have time for it for a while. Now I'm back because I need some input: You probably heard that the EU is currently passing data retention laws. One part of them would require that ISPs keep logs of customer traffic. It isn't entirely clear what exactly they need to store, but the discussion goes into URL storage (i.e. what file on which virtual host) and even full data storage (i.e. copies of the IP packets). Obviously, at least the later is bullshit. However, it is absolutely possible that it's just a smokescreen and the usual "compromise" will be that the ISPs don't have to store the data except on request... Enter a simple idea to solve the obvious privacy problem, at least in parts. We do have the infrastructure in place to achieve end-to-end encryption for the by far most-often-used web services, all we need is to use it. I am, of course, talking about HTTPS and SMTPS. Setting up apache so that it does HTTPS instead of HTTP, and all requests to HTTP pages are redirected to a page pointing to the HTTPS equivalent and explaining why is trivial. Getting the various MTAs to use SMTPS isn't too difficult, either. The problem with both is the need of SSL certificates. So I was thinking of setting up a "Joe Doe's CA". A simple webpage where you can request a certificate. It would do two check: a) check if IP you are using is identical to the IP you are requesting for, i.e. you'll have to ssh into your webserver and use lynx from there. b) the certificate will be mailed to the admin-c of the domain you requested it for (whois lookup). This is not 100% secure, but then again how much checking does Verisign really do on certificates? I believe this is "good enough" in that it establishes a reasonable safety that you are talking to the right site, at least much better than regular HTTP can offer. The purpose of this is to get as many sites to switch to using HTTPS and SMTPS as possible. Therefore, the required work must be kept minimal. Once considerable parts of the internet traffic are encrypted, they can pass as many data retention laws as they please. Any comments? What did I miss? Where does this idea come apart? Does it make sense at all? -- New GPG Key issued (old key expired): http://web.lemuria.org/pubkey.html pub 1024D/2D7A04F5 2002-05-16 Tom Vogt Key fingerprint = C731 64D1 4BCF 4C20 48A4 29B2 BF01 9FA1 2D7A 04F5 From scribe at exmosis.net Mon Jun 3 08:26:40 2002 From: scribe at exmosis.net (Graham Lally) Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 16:26:40 +0100 Subject: FC: Hollywood wants to plug "analog hole," regulate A-D References: Message-ID: <3CFB8AB0.9030702@exmosis.net> Mike Rosing wrote: > On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Dave Emery wrote: > >> And telling the public that they face serious jail time if they >>don't turn in that Creative Soundblaster from the old PC in the attic >>closet isn't going to fly. The sheeple may be sheep but even they >>aren't going to accept that kind of nonsense from Hollywood or any >>corrupt congress. >> >> I'd even venture to say that if this issue breaks out into >>the big time and the public really is faced with crippled devices >>that don't work and mandatory obselescence of existing expensive >>computer and entertainment systems with potential jail time for >>use of old equipment that the backlash will be so intense that >>raw public votes will control over Hollywood money. > > > I think that's what boils down to the "bottom line". Because there are > so many units in place that can do the bypass, there will be enough time > to create a backlash. There's already a backlash on "protected" CD's, > mostly by consumers who can't play them on older CD players. It's just And/or indeed, on newer players. In the UK at least (http://uk.eurorights.org/issues/cd/docs/celdion.shtml) the new generation of anti-theft CDs have been reported to be useless on modern DVD players/car stereos, by design. Some older players either lack the "feature" or are less sensitive, I assume, so can be ok. It's just a case of matching a technology with the right player... So not content with limiting public demand for new hardware (a minor issue), the extra precautions actively encourage consumers to not buy legal content. Woo. Better to get illegal content that you can do what you want with. With regards to the analog[ue]/digital stop-gapping, r o f l m a o. This would be just as effective as, ooh, copy-protecting CDs? Oh, humm... Chasing down peer-to-peer outfits? Uhh... Trying to ban videos? Oh, wait... Firstly, in order to prevent widespread ripping of analog signals through disabling mass consumer device, there needs to /be/ mass consumer ripping. How many people do you know who actually go to the trouble of transferring their taped episodes/films onto their PC? It's not as simple as grabbing mp3s. As with other such "distribution" in its relevant infancy, the hard work's carried out by a much smaller number of people - millions of films may be downloaded every month, but there's generally only 2 or 3 versions of each film, from different sources, max. Believing that crippling the populace will fill this tiny leak is... well, amusing. Secondly, how much work is going to go into protecting a fading technology? This is from both the MPAA's and the consumers' points of view. For the former, analog avoidance is only of any use if the content is not readily available in digital format already. Most of the analog content that I guess the MPAA want to stop conversion of is either people in cinemas with cameras, or people with tapes of episodes at home. The former is hard to stop through watermarking (I'm unsure of the technicalities, but I'd have thought preserving it between screen and camera would be tricky? Even without people geting uo and walking past the view...), and even then it's only one source of films. The latter is, I suspect, more the target of the MPAA's volley. If this doesn't move towards digital origins, i.e. through PVRs or cable-streams obtained via PC (which are subject to a different smother), then the abundance of existing technology, and probable (anonymous) circumvention of new ones anyway renders all actions proposed useless. The question then is how much investment do you want to throw away? Outside the US, I suspect that the circumvention may go the same way as DVD region "control". Looking at players recently, it was quite hard (after checking around, as most people would) to actually _avoid_ region-locked DVD players. The only real factor that really keeps regions in place is their localised supply to meatspace shops, or the boundaries of international postage & packing. Foolishness, foolishness, and yet more foolishness. Perhaps if we just ignore them, then they'll go away eventually :) .g From jos_edw at mail.com Mon Jun 3 08:04:08 2002 From: jos_edw at mail.com (JOSEPH EDWARD.) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 17:04:08 +0200 Subject: please kindly get back to me Message-ID: <200206031505.g53F5QHW000954@ak47.algebra.com> ATTN: I STUMBLED IN TO YOUR CONTACT BY STROCK OF LUCK AFRTER A LONG SEARCH FOR AN HONEST AND TRUST WORTHY PERSON WHO COULD HANDLE ISSUE WITH HIGH CONFIDENTIALITY. I WAS SO DELIGHTED WHEN I GOT YOUR CONTACT AND I DECIDED TO CONTACT YOU AND SOLICITE FOR YOUR KIND ASSISTANCE. I HOPE YOU WILL LET THIS ISSUE TO REMAIN CONFIDENTIAL EVEN IF YOU ARE NOT INTERESTED BECAUSE OF MY STATUS. I PRESUME THIS MAIL WILL NOT BE A SURPRISE TO YOU. 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From ptrei at rsasecurity.com Mon Jun 3 14:06:12 2002 From: ptrei at rsasecurity.com (Trei, Peter) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 17:06:12 -0400 Subject: Degrees of Freedom vs. Hollywood Control Freaks Message-ID: > Tim May[SMTP:tcmay at got.net] wrote: > > On Monday, June 3, 2002, at 08:40 AM, Trei, Peter wrote: > >> OnThe MPAA does not have to 'will them out of existance', or even make > > them illegal. They plan to change the broadcast standard so they are > > not supported. > > > > At least, this is my interpretation: > > > > The FCC has mandated a change to all-digital formats over the > > next 5 years or so. After that, analog (NTSC) transmission will > > be phased out. > > My strong hunch is that there is essentially no chance of this > happening. For a mix of reasons which I'll just briefly list: > Tim: I'm working on more then 'hunches'. Consider: http://ftp.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Mass_Media/News_Releases/1998/nrmm8003.html - start quote - The FCC reaffirmed its service rules for the conversion by all U.S. broadcasters to digital broadcasting services (DTV), including build-out construction schedules, NTSC and DTV channel simulcasting, and the return of analog channels to the government by 2006. - end quote - That's the official USG position 5 years ago. Note the last clause in particular. Your NTSC set will be a paperweight, at least as far as over-the-air reception is concerned, by 2006. Now, in reality, the trashing of your old TV may be delayed... (I'm quoting from www.digitaltelevision.com here): - start quote - Ending the Transition By Congressional mandate, the transition period ends on December 31, 2006. On that date, NTSC broadcasting should terminate and stations should operate in a DTV mode alone, unless the FCC has granted a waiver. Any extensions beyond the final date will be considered on a market-by-market basis. Under the Balanced Budget Act of 1997, the Commission is required to grant a station's request for an extension if: One or more stations affiliated with one of the Top-4 networks is not operating digitally, because the Commission has granted the station(s) an extension of time to complete construction; Digital-to-analog converters are not generally available on the market; or Fifteen percent or more of the homes in the market cannot receive a DTV signal either off the air or via cable or do not have either a digital TV set or analog-to-digital converter attached to one NTSC TV set capable of receive DTV signals in their local market. - end quote - ...but it will happen eventually. After the stations are broadcasting digitally, the analog stations are unneeded, and regardless of whether the FCC or the station has the auction rights, they'll want to sell off the old spectrum. Neither the FCC nor the broadcasters will want to forego the money. [...] > Item: Their system, my system, and tens of millions like them, are > already giving so many "degrees of freedom" that the cat is already out > of the bag. An attempt to make future DVDs incompatible with the tens of > millions of existing systems will be met with anger, boycotts, and > seeking of alternatives (e.g., a studio which continues to sell DVDs > will win out over ones which offer only newer and incompatible > versions). Throw in the pissed-off folks who bought HDTV systems in > 1997-2003 and are then told that they'll have to scrap even those > systems! > Well, I'm convinced - I guess that's why every single album today is released on both CD *and* vinyl - can't piss off the tens of millions of turntable owners, after all. [..] > I give the chance that Jack Valenti and his bunch will be able to force > a conversion to a new video standard no chance of happening. > Manufacturers will back off if they see sales trending downward (for the > reasons cited above). > Tim, I think you're missing the point here. Valenti and his ilk would like nothing more than to force you to to rebuy your visual media *again*, but they don't have to. I'll bet dollars to donuts that you've rebought some of your VCR tapes as DVDs. Whey wouldn't the MPAA think they can make you do it over? > > Until these standards are settled one way or the other, anyone > > buying digital video equipment (HDTV or otherwise) runs a > > very substantial risk of finding themselves with a set of expensive > > and otherwise useless doorstops. > > Which is deterring huge numbers of people from even looking at HDTV. And > so they buy more DVDs, which are vastly better than the VHS tapes > they've been watching for years. Most of them apparently see little > compelling reason to upgrade to HDTV. > The BCPG etal are moaning about the 'analog hole' because that's the one they can't easily fix. They've already agreed not to license the marketing of devices with unprotected digital-out (the deCSS case was about this, remember?) So the 'digital hole' is already plugged - as more and more devices recognize and respond to the watermarks, the usability of a ripped digital-to-digital file decreases. > > Progress and innovation in electronics will occur only > > at the whim (and in the interest) of the entertainment industry. > > Actually, I disagree. There are many examples--MP3s, Napster, the system > my friends have that I described, etc.--where the "street" does its own > thing regardless of what the entertainment industry and Jack Valenti > want. > Well, Napster just went Chapter 11. Any future system which requires either vintage or illegally hacked HW will have very limited usage. > Final personal note: About a year ago I saw the absolutely gorgeous, > splendiferous Apple 22-inch "Cinema Display." A huge TFT flat monitor, > with a resolution of about 1600 x 1200. And they've now added a slightly > larger version with an ever higher resolution. I see myself getting one > of these, or the 30-inch version which will probably be available for > the same price in 2 years--and rigging it as my main high-res viewing > system. > I've seen them too - very, very nice! > (Yeah, these systems are not so great for families and for > viewing parties, but, let's face it, when was the last time this kind of > viewing happened to you? Most of my own viewing, and that of nearly > everyone I know, is personal.) > Not everyone is single and living alone. The last time for me was last night - I and the kids watched The Simpsons, and my wife joined us for Malcom in the Middle (very funny, but about a lifestyle alien to you). Saturday night we had 5 people sit through Harry Potter, as did about 8 of the neighbourhood kids on Sunday afternoon. There are a very large number of families-with-kids out there, and family viewing is common. On a side note - the HP movie (which I'm not that fond of) is in itself an example of the publishers being willing to piss people off. The deleted scenes (one of the better things you get on DVDs) where hidden behind a long and very inobvious set of operations in the 'special features' section, essentially as an Easter Egg. Not only that, but the operations neccesary to reach them reliably crashed my DVD player, which less then a year old, due to insufficient memory. My daughter's PS/2 console came to the rescue. > The degrees of freedom will win out over the control freaks. > Let's hope. > --Tim May > "Ben Franklin warned us that those who would trade liberty for a little > bit of temporary security deserve neither. This is the path we are now > racing down, with American flags fluttering."-- Tim May, on events > following 9/11/2001 > Peter Trei From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Mon Jun 3 17:25:55 2002 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 17:25:55 -0700 Subject: European Data Retention and Encryption for Dummies In-Reply-To: <20020603161241.A19768@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <009f01c20b5e$64fc1a70$84c5efd1@LUCKYVAIO> Tom wrote: > The problem with both is the need of SSL certificates. So I > was thinking of setting up a "Joe Doe's CA". A simple webpage > where you can request a certificate. It would do two check: > > a) check if IP you are using is identical to the IP you are > requesting for, i.e. you'll have to ssh into your webserver > and use lynx from there. > > b) the certificate will be mailed to the admin-c of the > domain you requested it for (whois lookup). I have been meaning to set up a similar CA for years now, but never found the time. While you are at it, you might want to configure your CA to offer S/MIME certs subject to an email ping. (Which is what exactly what Thawte (a.k.a. VeriSign) is using to authenticate their free S/MIME certs). Make sure that your CA will only sign sufficient size keys, responding with a meaningful error message if a smaller key is submitted. There is a commercial SSL cert provider with roots in the browsers that uses just authentication method b) that you propose. However, for your CA, I would recommend doing away with b) since that will limit even "legitimate" (whatever that would mean in this context) users of your CA. Do a whois on cypherpunks.to to see why b) won't work for everybody. If you don't care about serving users of some CCTLD's, you can leave b) in. Your CA, your CSP. YMMV, --Lucky From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Mon Jun 3 17:35:52 2002 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 17:35:52 -0700 Subject: 2 Challenge Gun Cases, Citing Bush Policy In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020603092148.009e23e0@localhost> Message-ID: <00a701c20b5f$ca9a3e60$84c5efd1@LUCKYVAIO> Ed wrote: > At 07:17 PM 6/2/02, Lucky Green wrote: > >In United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U.S. 542 (1876), the > Supreme Court > >held that: > > > >... > > > >"The right to bear arms is not granted by the Constitution; > neither is > >it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its > existence. The > >second amendment means no more than that it shall not be > infringed by > >Congress, and has no other effect than to restrict the powers of the > >national government." > > > >.... the 2nd Amendment solely > >constrains Congress from infringing upon the right to keep and bear > >arms while leaving the Executive free to infringe upon this > right, or > >deny its exercise entirely, at will. > > The Executive is part of the "national government" that > Cruikshank says is > restricted by the 2nd amendment, yes? One might read the decision this way, if the Supreme Court had not specifically written that "The second amendment means no more than that it shall not be infringed by Congress". The national government is simply mentioned in the decision because the question at bar was if the 2nd applied to the States via the 14th. Under Cruikshank, the Supreme Court ruled that it does not. The Court held that the 2nd only constrained the national government, not the States, and of the national government, only Congress. [...] > >,,,,ten years later in Presser v. > >Illinois, 116 U.S. 252 (1886). > > > >"The provision in the Second Amendment to the Constitution, > that 'the > >right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be > infringed,' is a > >limitation only on the power of Congress and the national > government, > >and not of the States. > > Again, Presser says the 2nd amendment restricts the president > from such an > executive order, yes? Under Presser, such an executive order by the President would likely be considered unconstitutional. FYI, the Supreme Court has since revisited, and overturned itself, in just about every aspect of Cruikshank, *except* that the 14th does not extend the 2nd to the States. Which was the issue that Steve Schear inquired about and to which I responded with my post. --Lucky From softmag at orgio.net Mon Jun 3 01:59:31 2002 From: softmag at orgio.net (박미애) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 17:59:31 +0900 Subject: [광고] 영화를 보면서 영어를 정복하세요.^^ Message-ID: <200206030905.EAA18599@einstein.ssz.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 12874 bytes Desc: not available URL: From huffman at insurancemail.net Mon Jun 3 16:52:53 2002 From: huffman at insurancemail.net (IQ - Huffman & Associates) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 19:52:53 -0400 Subject: Can this be an Indexed Annuity? Message-ID: Can this be an indexed annuity? 100% Participation for Life No Earnings Cap for Life Up to 11% Commission 5 Yr Point-to-Point Strategy Call or e-mail Rex Huffman & Associates today! 800-749-9900 ext. 143 ? or ? Please fill out the form below for more information Name: E-mail: Phone: City: State: For agent use only. IDEAL Index 100 Annuity issued by Allianz Life Insurance Company of North America. Product availability and benefits may vary by state. The IDEAL Index 100 Annuity is not approved in: NJ, NY, ND, OR, SC and WA. FLA217-02 We don't want anyone to receive our mailings who does not wish to. This is professional communication sent to insurance professionals. To be removed from this mailing list, DO NOT REPLY to this message. Instead, go here: http://www.Insurancemail.net Legal Notice -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 5737 bytes Desc: not available URL: From MO2013_20020531_850 at link2buy.com Mon Jun 3 23:08:44 2002 From: MO2013_20020531_850 at link2buy.com (EAASI) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 23:08:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Send DAD a BBQ TOOL Kit, Get a FREE GARDEN CARE Kit! Message-ID: <850218409.1023172107659.mu@link2buy.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1471 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cristoms at hotmail.com Tue Jun 4 14:45:15 2002 From: cristoms at hotmail.com (cristoms at hotmail.com) Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 05:45:15 -1600 Subject: Sell Your Business 24758 Message-ID: <0000051c3727$00001b92$000002af@.> ** 5 FREE eBooks JUST FOR SIGNING UP. Sent via email within 48 hours of entering your name and email address. ** NO PRESSURE TO BUY! ** TEST DRIVE IT FOR AS LONG AS YOU WISH FOR FREE! ** ONLY GET INVOLVED IF YOU LIKE WHAT YOU SEE. We will put 800 in your Downline in 30 days!! Visit http://www.fastbizonline.com/bizopp/ TRY IT FOR FEEE! It's working for me!! I'm earning a guaranteed minimum monthly income of $3,000.00!! and you can too! Accept our no cost, no obligation opportunity to watch your business grow before you spend a dime. Visit http://www.fastbizonline.com/bizopp/ Why are we doing this? 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Visit http://www.fastbizonline.com/bizopp/ Visit http://www.fastbizonline.com/bizopp/ Visit http://www.fastbizonline.com/bizopp/ ************************************************************* If you do not wish to receive any more emails from me, please send an email to "affiliate1 at btamail.net.cn" requesting to be removed. ************************************************************* From objectpascal at yahoo.com Tue Jun 4 06:26:54 2002 From: objectpascal at yahoo.com (Curt Smith) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 06:26:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: European Data Retention and Encryption for Dummies In-Reply-To: <20020603161241.A19768@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <20020604132654.54430.qmail@web11606.mail.yahoo.com> I strongly support your idea. Although it would even be more useful if you added: c) e-mail address user certs authenticated via confirmation message sent to the e-mail address being certified (as Lucky suggested) d) fully enable all certificates for all purposes, thereby allowing the certificate to sign code. I hope that you are able to implement this idea, as all efforts to increase the volume of encryption on the internet will ultimately increase privacy and show strong public support for cryptography in general. Curt --- Tom wrote: > Hi everyone, I've been on this list before, but didn't have > time for it for a while. Now I'm back because I need some > input: ... > Setting up apache so that it does HTTPS instead of HTTP, and > all requests to HTTP pages are redirected to a page pointing > to the HTTPS equivalent and explaining why is trivial. > Getting the various MTAs to use SMTPS isn't too difficult, > either. > > The problem with both is the need of SSL certificates. So I > was thinking of setting up a "Joe Doe's CA". A simple webpage > where you can request a certificate. It would do two check: > > a) check if IP you are using is identical to the IP you are > requesting for, i.e. you'll have to ssh into your webserver > and use lynx from there. > > b) the certificate will be mailed to the admin-c of the > domain you requested it for (whois lookup). > > This is not 100% secure, but then again how much checking > does Verisign really do on certificates? I believe this > is "good enough" in that it establishes a reasonable safety > that you are talking to the right site, at least much better > than regular HTTP can offer. > > The purpose of this is to get as many sites to switch to > using HTTPS and SMTPS as possible. Therefore, the required > work must be kept minimal. Once considerable parts of the > internet traffic are encrypted, they can pass as many data > retention laws as they please. > > Any comments? What did I miss? Where does this idea come > apart? Does it make sense at all? > ===== end eof . Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From get_started at value-esun.com Tue Jun 4 07:54:53 2002 From: get_started at value-esun.com (get_started at value-esun.com) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 08:54:53 -0600 (MDT) Subject: cypherpunks - Make The Decision To Save...Today Message-ID: <200206041454.g54EsrD95401@value-esun.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3266 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rah at shipwright.com Tue Jun 4 07:04:55 2002 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 10:04:55 -0400 Subject: [Zero-Knowledge Press Release] Zero-Knowledge Systems Files Preliminary Prospectus For Initial Public Offering Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text From get_started at value-esun.com Tue Jun 4 09:26:31 2002 From: get_started at value-esun.com (get_started at value-esun.com) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 10:26:31 -0600 (MDT) Subject: cypherpunks - Make The Decision To Save...Today Message-ID: <200206041626.g54GQVD50284@value-esun.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3266 bytes Desc: not available URL: From MO2730_20020530_845 at link2buy.com Tue Jun 4 12:24:36 2002 From: MO2730_20020530_845 at link2buy.com (EAASI) Date: Tue Jun 04 12:24:36 PDT 2002 Subject: Lose Up to 12 pounds in 2 Days GUARANTEED! Message-ID: <850218409.1023219269838.mu@link2buy.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2548 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jya at pipeline.com Tue Jun 4 12:40:19 2002 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 12:40:19 -0700 Subject: FBI Net Tips Message-ID: This hit to Cryptome today must be the rapid response to Ashcroft's openly sicking the FBI on the net: http://home.leo.gov/rollcall/internet_tips/2002/tip_060302.htm Leo.gov is an FBI domain, though its use is not limited to that agency. Our posting aerial views of nuclear submarine bases is probably what led to this tip, but the surveillance may be more wide-ranging. DoJ/FBI has been grabbing all of the views which are taken from MapQuest and TerraServer. But all the bases featured are eagerly downloading the appreciation too. NSA and CIA have stepped up their visits. And their foreign emulators. As hearings begin on the uneyeballed wonderlands. From james_smith9 at lycos.com Tue Jun 4 13:26:53 2002 From: james_smith9 at lycos.com (REV DR JAMES SMITH) Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 13:26:53 Subject: URGENT ASSISTANCE Message-ID: <200206041226.g54CPxHW030084@ak47.algebra.com> Union Bank of Nigeria Plc 40, Marina P.M.B. 106 Lagos. Nigeria Dear URGENT ACTION NEEDED First, I must solicit your confidence in this transaction, this is by virtue as being utterly confidential and top secret. Though I know that a transaction of this magnitude, will make anyone apprehensive and worried but I am assuring you that all will be well at the end of the transaction. We have decided to contact you due to urgency of this transaction, as well have been reliably informed of your discreetness and ability in transaction of this nature.Let me start by introducing myself properly to you, I am Rev. Dr James smith, the credit officer with the Union Bank Plc. I came to know you in my private search for a reliable and reputable christian organisation to handle this confidential transaction, which involves the transfer of Huge sum of money to a foreign country requiring maximum confidence. THE PROPOSITION A Foreigner, late Engr. John Creek (Snr.) an oil merchant with the Federal Government of Nigeria until his >death in Kenya Air Bus (A3 1 0 -30) flight Ko430 that crashed, banked with us at Union Bank of Nigeria PLc, Lagos and had closing balance as at the end of September 2000 worth US($35,000.000) thirty five million United State Dollars) the bank now expects a next of kin as beneficiary, valuable efforts have been made by Union Bank of Nigeria to get in touch with any member of Creek's family or relatives but to no Success. It is because of the perceived possibility of not being able to locate any of late Engr. John Creek (Snr.) next to kin (He had no wife or children that are known to us) that the management under the influence of our chairman and members of Board of Directors, that arrangement has been made for the fund to be declared unclaimed, and subsequently to be donated to the trust fund for arms and ammunition to futher enhance course of war in Africa and the world in general. All these ideas raised are for the interest of the Islamic Countries. As a christian, I do not subscribe to this negative development. Therefore, some fellow christians and I have decided to seek a christian foundation organisation or trust that will stand as the next of kin to late Engineer John Creek(Snr), so that the USD 35million will be released and paid to the foundation as the beneficiary's next of kin. Our interest is to ensure that this fund is directed to a christian organisation that will benefit my family and others instead of willing this fund to a trust that supports war and destruction in Africa. All document and proves to enable you receive this fund will be carefully worked out on your acceptance to partake in this transaction. This transaction is 100% risk free. My status and influences of my colleagues will be brought to bear on it. I expect your urgent reponse. Yours faithfully, Rev. Dr. James Smith From jya at pipeline.com Tue Jun 4 13:38:53 2002 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 13:38:53 -0700 Subject: FBI Net Tips In-Reply-To: <20020604190619.A2594@lemuria.org> References: Message-ID: True, the home.leo.gov referrer could be a spoof, indeed, reads more like a spoof than the real thing which used to be partially camouflaged, except so did Bush, Ashcroft and company before 9/11, well, before the Florida and Supreme Court assault on the assaulting enemies of the state. Now bald-faced teeth baring, uh, Carnivore, seems silly compared to outright indiscriminate chomping like locusts. "We're at war," the locusts chew and puke into the global terrorism database. Seaching for WMD targets, inventing them. From adam at homeport.org Tue Jun 4 13:58:16 2002 From: adam at homeport.org (Adam Shostack) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 16:58:16 -0400 Subject: Palm security Message-ID: <20020604165816.A38750@lightship.internal.homeport.org> I find myself storing a pile of vaugely sensitive information on my palm. Where do I find the competent analysis of this? Ideally, I'd like to be able to protect things that I move into a "sensitive" area (passwords), and maybe select items in other places that I want to encrypt. I don't really want to have to enter a password each time I look at my schedule and todo lists. Someone suggested YAPS (http://www.palmblvd.com/software/pc/Yaps-2000-11-7-palm-pc.html) are there others I should look at? Adam -- -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume From usafin at insurancemail.net Tue Jun 4 14:23:16 2002 From: usafin at insurancemail.net (IQ - USA Financial) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 17:23:16 -0400 Subject: Free Report and Audio Tape Message-ID: <37dfb01c20c0e$0aaf20c0$3201a8c0@insuranceiq.com> Would you like to fill a room with 300 of these people? ...that's what we do! End All Senior Market Prospecting Problems Instantly and Painlessly! _____ Get record breaking results with the USA Financial Turnkey, Worry-Free Auto-Pilot Client Seminar Marketing System and Formula! Use the same methods we used to get 20,898 RSVP's in only 15 short months. Learn our secret Asset-Cycle Sales Presentation that earns $10,000-$30,000 per client, and get free attendance to our 2-day coaching adacemy! Learn our coveted secrets to Easily and Consistently Collect Millions & Millions in assets! ? Average of 131 RSVP's per seminar...Over 200 Seminars Conducted ? Average of 80% Attendance Ratio & 60% Appointment Ratio ? Some Actual Sample RSVP's: 337 IL, 194 FL, 196 TX, 221 WI, 151 CA, 220 PA, 158 GA ? Shared Statistics on Over a Year's Worth of Seminar Performance ? 380 Testimonials from other Financial Advisors, Reps & Agents _____ Call our 24-hour automated response line for your FREE report and audiotape ($97 value!) 800-436-1631 ext. 86005 ? or ? Please fill out the form below for your FREE report and audiotape! Name: E-mail: Phone: Fax: Address: City: State: Zip: USA Financial - www.usa-financial.com We don't want anybody to receive our mailings who does not wish to receive them. This is professional communication sent to insurance professionals. To be removed from this mailing list, DO NOT REPLY to this message. Instead, go here: http://www.InsuranceMail.net Legal Notice -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 9071 bytes Desc: not available URL: From get_started at value-esun.com Tue Jun 4 16:38:01 2002 From: get_started at value-esun.com (get_started at value-esun.com) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 17:38:01 -0600 (MDT) Subject: cypherpunks - Make The Decision To Save...Today Message-ID: <200206042338.g54Nc1084327@value-esun.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3266 bytes Desc: not available URL: From declan at well.com Tue Jun 4 17:50:12 2002 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 17:50:12 -0700 Subject: Preliminary thoughts on Zero Knowledge's planned public offering Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020604174933.0235e118@mail.well.com> >Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 17:48:45 -0700 >To: politech at politechbot.com >From: Declan McCullagh >Subject: Preliminary thoughts on Zero Knowledge's planned public offering > >Zero Knowledge's prospectus posted on the sedar.com site offers up an >unprecedented look at the financials of the company. I just read it; here >are some preliminary notes: > >* For the fiscal year June 30, 2000 to June 30, 2001, ZKS made Can$1 >million in revenue. They lost Can$36 million. >* In U.S. dollars, that's $650,000 revenue -- and a loss of $24 million. >* After layoffs, from the nine months ending March 30, 2002 (the most >recent numbers), the company made Can$1.7 million in revenue. But the net >loss was still Can$20 million. >* During the height of the Freedom product, revenue was only $400K/year in >software licenses. >* ZKS has leased (mostly in a 10-year lease) about 44,000 square feet of >office space in Montreal. At only 81 current employees, that's 543 >sq-feet/employee -- enough for a comfortable studio apartment for each >person. Only 4,000 square feet have been sublet. A football field, by >comparison, is about 50,000 square feet. >* Cash reserves are dwindling fast. As of June 30, 2001, ZKS had Can$15 >million in the bank. Now they have only Can$3 million. >* The company's current burn rate is almost, according to statement F-3, >as much as Can$2 million a month. Without a substantial revenue uptick or >a short-term loan, ZKS could simply run out of cash. To be fair, some of >that revenue could come in with new deals with HP and other companies >described in the prospectus. >* Can$1.3 million/year of remaining cash will be eaten up by four fat >executive salaries that remain hefty, even given the dismal financial >situation. Each of the three Hill family members gets Can$270K a year, >with the CEO receiving Can$470K. >* If my calculations are correct, and barring a cash infusion from >licensing, soon ZKS' liabilities, such as accounts payable and long-term >debt, will be more than the company's assets. > >Question: Given the above, what's the future of an IPO? (Keep in mind that >ZKS had also planned an abortive IPO in 2000.) > >Here's the prospectus: >http://www.sedar.com/command_servlet?cmd=GetFile&lang=EN&documentType=Preliminary+long+form+prospectus+-+English&issuerNo=00017982&fileName=%2Fcsfsprod%2Fdata31%2Ffilings%2F00456562%2F00000001%2Fe%3A%5CZero%5CIPO-2002%5CPrelim%5CPreProsE.pdf > >Previous Politech message: >http://www.politechbot.com/p-03618.html > >Below is an article that David Akin wrote before the prospectus was >published based on interviews with ZKS execs. > >-Declan > >--- > >Report on Business: Canadian >Zero-Knowledge learns a valuable lesson Dot-com firm finds no amount of hype >can replace old-fashioned business values, DAVID AKIN reports >DAVID AKIN > >05/13/2002 >The Globe and Mail >Metro >B5 > > >A little over a year ago, Zero-Knowledge Systems Inc. of Montreal was on top >of the dot-com world in Canada. > >It had just concluded a third round of financing, bringing the total amount >of money raised by the privacy software maker to $54-million (U.S.). > > >Its employee base had soared to 247 from 83 in less than a year. The >privately held company and its products were getting lots of positive press >in the important U.S. market. In Canada, Austin and Hamnett Hill, company >co-founders and brothers, made the cover of R.O.B. Magazine and Shift. And >Austin was asked to advise Finance Minister Paul Martin on the technology >economy. > >Then the dot-com bubble burst. Markets crashed, investors got nervous, and >technology spending dried up. > >For all its promise, Zero-Knowledge found itself in a heap of trouble. But >while dozens of its Internet and software peers in Canada folded, >Zero-Knowledge held on. The founding family -- Austin and Hamnett are >executive vice-presidents and father, Hammie, is the chief financial officer >-- brought in new executives to help. > >Now, more than a year after the bubble burst, the story of Zero-Knowledge is >a business school lesson -- that no amount of hype, publicity, and dot-com >pixie dust can replace the good, old-fashioned value that businesses succeed >when they sell things that a lot of people find useful. > >Company executives concede that, until early last year, the company operated >under flawed governing assumptions: that there's an infinite supply of >capital; speed and size are everything; and, because privacy was the Next >Big Thing, all they had to do was build the best privacy protection software >and the technology would sell itself. > >Those assumptions were similar to what guided most dot-com startups of the >late 1990s and many of their venture capital partners. > >Now, Zero-Knowledge executives cite different guiding principles. First, the >company will do only what someone is willing to pay for. Second, it >recognizes that capital is scarce and must be earned. Third, it measures >success by traditional benchmarks such as revenue, cost containment, and >earnings. > >Company CEO Tamas Hevizi said the lesson for Zero-Knowledge was that >consumers, by and large, don't make buying decisions based on technology. >"But customers differentiate in who they buy from. That was the big shift >for us. Consumers tend to buy a lot more from people they're already buying >from. It was something we learned but I think a lot of companies didn't >learn that. They assume you can come out with the greatest new product, and >all of a sudden everyone's going to rush to you. That's just not how it >happens." > >That lesson wasn't cheap. Zero-Knowledge said it has gone from a peak gross >burn rate of $3-million (Canadian) in December, 2000, to a rate this spring >of about $1-million a month. > >"Part of the problem was that the measures for success then were how much >money you raised, how many times you got your name in the press, and how >much visibility you had," Austin Hill said. "So even though we were blowing >through $3-million a month at our peak, there was still this perception >that, oh well, that's nothing compared to the [Silicon] Valley companies." > >Said Hammie Hill: "No one was saying: What are your revenues going to be >this year? What are your projected earnings?" > >At first, the company thought revenue would come from a consumer privacy >protection product called Freedom, which it sold on a subscription basis for >about $50 (U.S.) a year. But despite critical acclaim for Freedom, it was a >bust, selling less than 15,000 units. > >And so the company brought in a new CEO -- Mr. Hevizi had been a Silicon >Valley-based Ernst & Young consultant -- then shut down the Freedom product >and went back to the drawing board. > >Layoffs soon followed, and today 80 people work for the company, down from >last year's peak of 247. > >Success -- on a much smaller scale than first hoped -- is now within reach, >the company said. A deal with Hewlett-Packard Co. of Palo Alto, Calif., will >put Zero-Knowledge software on three million computers. Deals have also been >signed, but not yet announced, with a major North American financial >institution for the sale of 2.5 million software licences; with a major >European telecommunications company and a major North American telco for >more than six million licences; and with a networking equipment vendor for >three million licences. > >But Zero-Knowledge has less than $5-million (Canadian) in cash on hand. >Sales, though growing quickly, totalled only about $300,000 in March. The >company wants one more round of financing to get it to the point where it is >generating its own positive cashflow. Executives say they expect to sign the >fourth financing deal soon. > >The company won't say when it expects to be cash-flow positive except to say >there is -- finally -- light at the end of the tunnel. > >Zero-Knowledge said that for the nine months ended in March, it lost >$19.3-million on sales of $1.7-million versus a loss of $26.1-million on >about $720,000 in the same period last year. > >The company cautions that it's tough to compare the two years because of >significant one-time restructuring costs that occurred last year and because >the 2001 strategy to generate revenue was shelved. > >Through three rounds of financing between September, 1999, and March, 2001, >Zero-Knowledge raised $52-million (U.S.) from some top Silicon Valley >venture capitalists and some Canadian institutional investors. Net >shareholders' equity at the end of March, according to Zero-Knowledge's >financials, stood at $4.2-million (Canadian). > >With a long uphill climb before its existing shareholders see a return, the >company has had to show prospective new investors it knows what it's doing. >"As we are attracting new investors," Mr. Hevizi said, "we have to paint a >path for them for growth, for revenue generation and ultimately for earnings >growth and profitability." David Akin is national business and technology >correspondent for CTV News and a contributing writer to The Globe and Mail. From tom at lemuria.org Tue Jun 4 10:06:19 2002 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 19:06:19 +0200 Subject: FBI Net Tips In-Reply-To: ; from jya@pipeline.com on Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 12:40:19PM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20020604190619.A2594@lemuria.org> On Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 12:40:19PM -0700, John Young wrote: > This hit to Cryptome today must be the rapid response to Ashcroft's > openly sicking the FBI on the net: > > http://home.leo.gov/rollcall/internet_tips/2002/tip_060302.htm home.leo.gov has disappeared, and ns1.leo.gov doesn't know about it, or www.leo.gov, or anything similiar, anymore. -- New GPG Key issued (old key expired): http://web.lemuria.org/pubkey.html pub 1024D/2D7A04F5 2002-05-16 Tom Vogt Key fingerprint = C731 64D1 4BCF 4C20 48A4 29B2 BF01 9FA1 2D7A 04F5 From info at printy.net Tue Jun 4 19:40:36 2002 From: info at printy.net (info at printy.net) Date: Tue, 04 Jun 02 19:40:36 櫓벌깃硫珂쇌 Subject: special prices of pad printers, screen printers,heat transfer machines etc Message-ID: <200206041143.GAA03919@einstein.ssz.com> 瓦숁삸�뵪擁끾뻼�쑍�졏凉뤹폋�넍�쉪�궙餓띰펽瑥룝슴�뵪擁끾뻼�쑍�뼶凉뤸탲鰲덀�� ----------------------------------------------------------- 岳→겘�룕躍껆내瀯잞펽�뇿�뛽營묊쳶竊뚥���뙃慂먨룕竊쏃궙餓띄쑈�룕饔�餓띰펽遙섌�잌룕��곻펽�븞�옖瀯앬슁竊� �븚�뒦�궙餓뜻맂榮�竊뚥툜訝싨�㎩성竊뚦뇛簾��럤遙섓폑�궙餓띄�←릤饔�餓띰펽鴉섇뙑�닓烏⑨펽�룓遙섉븞�럤��� 恙껃뒯訝띶쫩烏뚦뒯竊뚩독恙ヤ툔饔쏙폏http://tongke1.onchina.net �닑��끻뀓兀밭뇨�룚竊쉍tong12345 at 163.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 717 bytes Desc: not available URL: From quotes123 at time-2-win.com Tue Jun 4 23:47:53 2002 From: quotes123 at time-2-win.com (Quotes123) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 23:47:53 2002 -0700 Subject: Mortgage Rate Quotes Message-ID: <97634697.539101@mailhost> Quotes123.com Your One Stop Source for all Your Financial Needs THE LOWEST MORTGAGE RATES ON THE WEB - (Complete our easy online Form for a FREE Quote) http://www.quotes123.com/redirect_direct.asp?clientID=335&aid=2765 Don't Waste this Historical Opportunity! * Good or Bad Credit * Great Time to Purchase a New Home * Refinance your Existing Mortgage & Lower Your Payments * Convert your Adjustable Mortgage (ARM) to a low fixed loan. * Lower Your Interest Rate on Your Current ARM. * Convert to a 15 yr Mortgage - build equity faster. * Need Cash? Home equity loan rates are priced right. Click For the Best Rates http://www.quotes123.com/redirect_direct.asp?clientID=335&aid=2765 Save Hundreds of Dollars Per Month (Great Rates) Don't Miss This Chance. The Products We Offer: New Home Purchase Refinance Home Equity Loans and Line of Credit Home Improvement Debt Consolidation APPLY NOW http://www.quotes123.com/redirect_direct.asp?clientID=335&aid=2765 ==================================================== This has been brought to you by Time-2-Win.com. You are receiving this offer because you signed up with us directly or through one of our affiliates. If you feel this email has reached you by mistake, or no longer wish to receive offers from Time-2-Win.com, please visit http://www.Time-2-Win.com/unsubscribe.jsp to unsubscribe from our mailings. Thank you! This offer was sent to cypherpunks at einstein.ssz.com cypherpunks#einstein.ssz.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 6490 bytes Desc: not available URL: From doubleys at pe2pe.co.kr Tue Jun 4 23:06:15 2002 From: doubleys at pe2pe.co.kr (사랑플러스) Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 00:06:15 -0600 Subject: (광고) 나의 사랑 테디베어와 함께... Message-ID: <200206041510.KAA06356@einstein.ssz.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 6821 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gbroiles at parrhesia.com Wed Jun 5 00:42:47 2002 From: gbroiles at parrhesia.com (Greg Broiles) Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 00:42:47 -0700 Subject: Preliminary thoughts on Zero Knowledge's planned public offering In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20020604174933.0235e118@mail.well.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020605001219.039a5570@bivens.parrhesia.com> At 05:50 PM 6/4/2002 -0700, Declan McCullagh wrote: >>* Can$1.3 million/year of remaining cash will be eaten up by four fat >>executive salaries that remain hefty, even given the dismal financial >>situation. Each of the three Hill family members gets Can$270K a year, >>with the CEO receiving Can$470K. Per p. 41, as of July 1 2002, the Hills' salaries will be reduced to $225K, and Hevizi's (the CEO) to $300K. (which is still a lot of money, given all that they've burned through, for a company in this position.) Also, the General Manager for the Enterprise Privacy Management group, Mark Weidick, resigned his $338K position as of May 31 2002. Enterprise Privacy Management is supposed to be a big part of their new business focus, receiving 40% of the proceeds of the IPO. I get the impression that even though Stefan Brands has left ZKS, they've retained an option to purchase one or more of his patents, that option expiring in August. (cf. ) ZKS has also been the subject of three lawsuits for wrongful termination worth an aggregate of $240K, and have an ongoing dispute about a settlement gone bad, where the other party is seeking $630K and ZKS is seeking $100K + the return of a gift of 74,500 common shares (recently valued at around .75 each). Anyone want to bet the unnamed individual with the disputed settlement is Brands? I've mirrored a copy of the prosepectus at in case something tragic happens to the first copy. -- Greg Broiles -- gbroiles at parrhesia.com -- PGP 0x26E4488c or 0x94245961 From event1 at englishsoft.co.kr Tue Jun 4 09:33:22 2002 From: event1 at englishsoft.co.kr (잉글리쉬소프트) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 01:33:22 +0900 Subject: [광고]ccfe 무비잉글리쉬 FULL SET(영화30편 CD74장)49,900원에..(Commercial) Message-ID: <200206041644.LAA07102@einstein.ssz.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 10576 bytes Desc: not available URL: From MO2042_20020529_821 at link2buy.com Wed Jun 5 03:11:56 2002 From: MO2042_20020529_821 at link2buy.com (EAASI) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 03:11:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: $10.00 Gas Notice #7734228, please claim by Tuesday June 11, 2002 Message-ID: <850218409.1023273582293.mu@link2buy.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 7030 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mail at 119photo.com Wed Jun 5 01:30:45 2002 From: mail at 119photo.com (사진병원) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 03:30:45 -0500 Subject: (광고) 낡고 찢어진 흑백사진을 고쳐요~~~~~~ Message-ID: <200206050830.DAA16816@einstein.ssz.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4957 bytes Desc: not available URL: From intr519a at bk.ru Wed Jun 5 04:02:50 2002 From: intr519a at bk.ru (Interesting Products) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 04:02:50 -0700 Subject: NEW: Unlimited people searches - fast, fun and easy! Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4191 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dcoppel at hotmail.com Wed Jun 5 14:57:30 2002 From: dcoppel at hotmail.com (dcoppel at hotmail.com) Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 05:57:30 -1600 Subject: FW:>Re: Men & Women, Spruce up your sex drive! 22837 Message-ID: <0000077f7656$00003841$00005a55@drhealthsys.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 5191 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jayh at 1st.net Wed Jun 5 03:19:42 2002 From: jayh at 1st.net (jayh at 1st.net) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 06:19:42 -0400 Subject: (Fwd) Re: Palm security Message-ID: <3CFDAD7E.13263.263EDD@localhost> I've been using Cryptopad 3 (Memo pad replacement) and like it (uses Eric Young's Blowfish). v4 is available (freeware) http://www.freewarepalm.com/utilities/cryptopad.shtml http://www.palmblvd.com/software/pc/CryptoPad-2000-10-12-palm-pc.html jay On 4 Jun 2002 at 16:58, Adam Shostack wrote: > I find myself storing a pile of vaugely sensitive information on my > palm. Where do I find the competent analysis of this? Ideally, I'd > like to be able to protect things that I move into a "sensitive" area > (passwords), and maybe select items in other places that I want to > encrypt. I don't really want to have to enter a password each time I > look at my schedule and todo lists. > > Someone suggested YAPS > (http://www.palmblvd.com/software/pc/Yaps-2000-11-7-palm-pc.html) are > there others I should look at? > > Adam > > > -- > > > -- > "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." > -Hume > > ------- End of forwarded message ------- From shortgirl2000 at hotmail.com Wed Jun 5 19:28:38 2002 From: shortgirl2000 at hotmail.com (John Smith) Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 07:28:38 -1900 Subject: If it's not here call me.. Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2298 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bleupurseudmesr at hotmail.com Wed Jun 5 04:12:00 2002 From: bleupurseudmesr at hotmail.com (Rosalinda Reichman) Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 08:12:00 -0300 Subject: Delete your Bad Credit Online 18464 Message-ID: <00007a264b58$00005335$00005550@mx14.hotmail.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1745 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Jun 5 09:13:33 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 11:13:33 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Missing pieces? In-Reply-To: <1559f192a7c68d53b52c49f2a33138ec@xmailer.ods.org> Message-ID: We're not missing anything, except more users... http://open-forge.org On Tue, 28 May 2002, Mister Heex wrote: > What are the fundamental building blocks that we're missing for a bright 'n' > shiny crypto-future? -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Jun 5 09:26:28 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 11:26:28 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [9fans] Final Call for Papers: ICONIP'02-SEAL'02-FSK'02 (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 10:04:51 GMT From: hepu at spock.bf.rmit.edu.au Reply-To: 9fans at cse.psu.edu To: 9fans at cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] Final Call for Papers: ICONIP'02-SEAL'02-FSK'02 [Apologies if you receive this announcement more than once.] [We have so far received about 600 submissions, not including about 30 special sessions currently being organized. Due to numerous requests, especially from participants to some major conferences held in May 2002, we are pleased to revise the submission deadline as below.] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 9th International Conference on Neural Information Processing (ICONIP'02) 4th Asia-Pacific Conference on Simulated Evolution And Learning (SEAL'02) International Conference on Fuzzy Systems and Knowledge Discovery (FSKD'02) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- November 18 - 22, 2002, Orchid Country Club, Singapore ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Home Page: http://www.ntu.edu.sg/home/nef Mirror Page: http://www.cic.unb.br/~weigang/nef ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ *** (NEW!) Submission Deadline: June 30, 2002 *** Organized by: School of Electrical and Electronic Engineering Nanyang Technological University, Singapore Sponsored by: Asia-Pacific Neural Network Assembly SEAL & FSKD Steering Committees Singapore Neuroscience Association In Co-Operation with: IEEE Neural Network Society International Neural Network Society European Neural Network Society SPIE Supported by: Lee Foundation US AOARD, ARO-FE Singapore Exhibition & Convention Bureau Novartis Pharmaceuticals ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ FINAL CALL FOR PAPERS, SPONSORSHIPS, AND SPECIAL SESSION PROPOSALS ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ICONIP'02, SEAL'02, and FSKD'02 will be jointly held in Orchid Country Club, Singapore from November 18 to 22, 2002. The conferences will not only feature the most up-to-date research results in natural and arti- ficial neural systems, evolutionary computation, fuzzy systems, and knowledge discovery, but also promote cross-fertilization over these exciting and yet closely-related areas. Registration to any one of the conferences will entitle a participant to the technical sessions and the proceedings of all three conferences, as well as the conference banquet, buffet lunches, and tours to two of the major attractions in Singapore, i.e., Night Safari and Sentosa Resort Island. Many well- known researchers will present keynote speeches, panel discussions, invited lectures, and tutorials. About Singapore --------------- Located at one of the most important crossroads of the world, Singapore is truly a place where East and West come together. Here you will find Chinese, Indian, and Malay communities living together, their long established cultures forming a unique backdrop to a clean and modern garden city. English is spoken everywhere and is the common business language of all. Few places on earth promise such a delight for the palate, with gourmet cuisine from over 30 countries. Exotic resorts in neighboring countries are only a short bus/ferry ride away. Orchid Country Club (OCC) ------------------------- The venue for this year's conferences is at one of Singapore's premier country clubs, a 25-minute bus ride from the city. Away from the hustle and bustle of downtown Singapore, the tranquil setting of the resort is ideal for serious technical discussions with an accommodating space and ambience for relaxation. Not to miss out on the splendor of downtown Singapore, the organizer has also secured good quality and affordable accommodation in the heart of the city with pre-arranged transport to/from the OCC. For golf enthusiasts, OCC is equipped with the largest computerized driving range in South East Asia and boasts of a 27-hole golf course with facilities for night golfing, ideal for relaxation after each day of technical discussions. Visit the OCC website at http://www.orchidclub.com Night Safari and Sentosa Resort Island -------------------------------------- It is said that a visit to Singapore is not complete without making a trip to two of the Republic's famous attractions. The only one of its kind in the world, the Night Safari provides a setting for visitors to experience what it is like to observe animals in their nocturnal habitat. The island of Sentosa offers some unique attractions and a visit there will also provide a glimpse and imagery of Singapore's past and present. Visits to these two attractions will be included as recreation for the joint conference. (Websites: http://www.zoo.com.sg/safari/, http://www.sentosa.com.sg) Topics of Interest ------------------ The joint conferences welcomes paper submissions from researchers, practitioners, and students worldwide in but not limited to the following areas. ICONIP'02: ~~~~~~~~~ ARTIFICIAL NEURAL MODELS - Learning algorithms, Neural modeling and architectures, Neurodynamics NATURAL NEURAL SYSTEMS - Neuroscience, Neurobiology, Neuro- physiology, Brain imaging, Learning and memory COGNITIVE SCIENCE - Perception, emotion, and cognition, Selective attention, Vision and auditory models HARDWARD IMPLEMENTATION - Artificial retina & cochlear chips HYBRID SYSTEMS - Neuro-fuzzy systems, Evolutionary neural nets, etc APPLICATIONS - Bioinformatics, Finance, Manufacturing, etc. SEAL'02: ~~~~~~~ THEORY - Co-evolution, Coding methods, Collective behavior METHODOLOGY - Evolution strategies, Genetic algorithms, Genetic programming, Molecular and quantum computing, Evolvable hardware, Multi-objective optimization, Ant colony, Artificial ecology EVOLUTIONARY LEARNING - Artificial life, Bayesian evolutionary algorithms HYBRID SYSTEMS - Evolutionary neuro-fuzzy systems, Soft computing APPLICATIONS - Scheduling, Operations research, Design, etc FSKD'02: ~~~~~~~ THEORY AND FOUNDATIONS - Fuzzy theory and models, Uncertainty management, Statistical & probabilistic data mining, Computing with words, Rough sets, Intelligent agents METHODS AND ALGORITHMS - Classification, Clustering, Information retrieval & fusion, Data warehousing & OLAP, Fuzzy hardware, Visualization, Decision trees, Data preprocessing HYBRID SYSTEMS - Evolutionary neuro-fuzzy systems, Soft computing APPLICATIONS - Control, Optimization, Natural language processing, Forecasting, Human-computer interaction, etc. Special Sessions ---------------- The conferences will feature special sessions on specialized topics to encourage in-depth discussions. To propose a special session, please follow the instructions on the conference web page. Sponsorship / Exhibition ------------------------ The conferences will offer product vendors a sponsorship package and/or an opportunity to interact with conference participants. Product demonstration and exhibition can also be arranged. For more information, please visit the conference web page. Keynote Speakers ---------------- Shun-ichi Amari, RIKEN Brain Science Institute, Japan David Fogel, Natural Selection, Inc., USA Mitsuo Kawato, ATR, Japan Xin Yao, The University of Birmingham, UK Lotfi A. Zadeh, University of California, USA Panel Discussions: ------------------ "Future Challenges in Soft Computing: Theory? Cmputational Paradigms? Applications?" Organized by Jacek M. Zurada "Oh sure, my method is connectionist too. Who said it's not?" Organized by Asim Roy Registration ------------ The registration fee for regular participants before August 15, 2002 is S$680 (approximately US$370 as at February 6, 2002), which includes the proceedings, lunches, banquet, and tours. Submission of Papers -------------------- Authors are invited to submit electronic files (postscript, pdf or Word format) through the conference home page. Papers should be double-column and use 10 pt Times Roman or similar fonts. The final version of a paper should not exceed 5 pages in length. A selected number of accepted papers will be expanded and revised for possible inclusion in edited books and peer-reviewed journals, such as "Soft Computing" and "Knowledge and Information Systems: An International Journal" by Springer-Verlag. Honorary Conference Chairs -------------------------- Shun-ichi Amari, Japan Hans-Paul Schwefel, Germany Lotfi A. Zadeh, USA International Advisory Board ---------------------------- Sung-Yang Bang, Korea Meng Hwa Er, Singapore David B. Fogel, USA Toshio Fukuda, Japan A. Galushkin, Russia Tom Gedeon, Australia Zhenya He, China Mo Jamshidi, USA Nikola Kasabov, New Zealand Sun-Yuan Kung, USA Tong Heng Lee, Singapore Erkki Oja, Finland Nikhil R. Pal, India Enrique H. Ruspini,USA Harcharan Singh, Singapore Ah Chung Tsoi, Australia Shiro Usui, Toyohashi, Japan Lei Xu, China Benjamin W. Wah, USA Donald C. Wunsch II, USA Xindong Wu, USA Youshou Wu, China Yixin Zhong, China Jacek M. Zurada, USA Advisor ------- Alex C. Kot, Singapore General Chair ------------- Lipo Wang, Singapore Program Co-Chairs ----------------- ICONIP'02: Kunihiko Fukushima, Japan Soo-Young Lee, Korea Jagath C. Rajapakse, Singapore SEAL'02: Takeshi Furuhashi, Japan Jong-Hwan Kim, Korea Kay Chen Tan, Singapore FSKD'02: Saman Halgamuge, Australia Special Sessions: Xin Yao, UK Finance Chair ------------- Charoensak Charayaphan, Singapore Local Arrangement Chair ----------------------- Meng Hiot Lim, Singapore Proceedings Chair ----------------- Farook Sattar, Singapore Publicity Co-Chairs ------------------- Hepu Deng, Australia Chunru Wan, Singapore Li Weigang, Brazil Zili Zhang, Australia Sponsorship/Exhibition Chair ---------------------------- Tong Seng Quah, Singapore Tutorial Chair -------------- P. N. Suganthan, Singapore Support Team Leader ------------------- Sophia Kuo, Singapore Conference Secretariat ---------------------- FSKD'02-ICONIP'02-SEAL'02 Secretariat Conference Management Center/CCE, NTU Administration Annex Building #04-06 42 Nanyang Avenue, Singapore 639815 Phone: +65 6790 6372 Fax: +65 6793 0997 ............................................................... If you do not wish to receive this announcement in the future, please reply to this email, with the word "remove" in the email subject. Thank you. ............................................................... From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Jun 5 09:57:06 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 11:57:06 -0500 Subject: Slashdot | Crack a Password, Save Norwegian History (Invitation to hack) Message-ID: <3CFE42E2.18C9B8E9@ssz.com> http://slashdot.org/articles/02/06/05/0650234.shtml?tid=172 -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From contrary at fastmail.fm Wed Jun 5 05:27:50 2002 From: contrary at fastmail.fm (contrary) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 12:27:50 +0000 Subject: Palm security Message-ID: <20020605122750.D84566D9CC@www.fastmail.fm> On Tue, 4 Jun 2002 16:58:16 -0400, "Adam Shostack" said: > I find myself storing a pile of vaugely sensitive information on my > palm. Where do I find the competent analysis of this? Perhaps this will help.. http://www.atstake.com/research/reports/index.html#pdd_palm_forensics -- contrary contrary at fastmail.fm -- http://fastmail.fm - No WWW (Wait-Wait-Wait) required From mean-green at hushmail.com Wed Jun 5 13:15:23 2002 From: mean-green at hushmail.com (mean-green at hushmail.com) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 13:15:23 -0700 Subject: Degrees of Freedom vs. Hollywood Control Freaks Message-ID: <200206052015.g55KFNc82248@mailserver2.hushmail.com> At 05:06 PM 6/3/2002 -0400, Trei, Peter wrote: >Tim, I think you're missing the point here. Valenti and his ilk would like nothing more than to force you to to rebuy your visual media *again*, but they don't have to. I'll bet dollars to donuts that you've rebought some of your VCR tapes as DVDs. Whey wouldn't the MPAA think they can make you do it over? Tim may be willing or able to repurchase his movie collection but many are not. I've "backed" up all of the movies I have on VHS onto CDs (2-3 per movie average) from DVD in a high quality format called SVCD. As soon as my budget allows I'll be a DVD burn'in fool. Communicate in total privacy. Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2 Looking for a good deal on a domain name? http://www.hush.com/partners/offers.cgi?id=domainpeople From peter.hope-tindall at dataprivacy.com Wed Jun 5 10:51:54 2002 From: peter.hope-tindall at dataprivacy.com (Peter Hope-Tindall Address for Lists) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 13:51:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Palm security In-Reply-To: <20020604165816.A38750@lightship.internal.homeport.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Jun 2002, Adam Shostack wrote: > > I find myself storing a pile of vaugely sensitive information on my > palm. Where do I find the competent analysis of this? Ideally, I'd > like to be able to protect things that I move into a "sensitive" area > (passwords), and maybe select items in other places that I want to > encrypt. I don't really want to have to enter a password each time I > look at my schedule and todo lists. > > Someone suggested YAPS > (http://www.palmblvd.com/software/pc/Yaps-2000-11-7-palm-pc.html) are > there others I should look at? > > Adam > > > -- > > > Hi Adam, I've been using Moviancrypt from Certicom: http://www.certicom.com/products/movian/moviancrypt.html PHT -- Peter Hope-Tindall pht at dataprivacy.com dataPrivacy Partners Ltd. (416) 410-0240 Vox (416) 410-2820 Fax Privacy by Design (TM) From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Jun 5 12:17:44 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 14:17:44 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Degrees of Freedom vs. Hollywood Control Freaks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Trei, Peter wrote: > Well, I'm convinced - I guess that's why every single album today is > released on both CD *and* vinyl - can't piss off the tens of millions of > turntable owners, after all. That's not correct. There are lots of albums (aimed at DJ's for example) that are -NEVER- available except on vinyl. Also, if you'll actually check the 'yellow book' at your record store you'll find that over the last 4-5 years a growing number of albums are available on CD only; no LP, no cassette. Start in the techno and related genre. Hint, they are -not- hit records. HDTV will come. That you can take to the bank. BUT, that doesn't equate to the end of NTSC by about 10 to 15 years. -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Jun 5 12:26:37 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 14:26:37 -0500 Subject: The Register - NY Times sicks FBI on MSNBC journo... Message-ID: <3CFE65EC.EE418A26@ssz.com> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/25574.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ptrei at rsasecurity.com Wed Jun 5 12:27:38 2002 From: ptrei at rsasecurity.com (Trei, Peter) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 15:27:38 -0400 Subject: Degrees of Freedom vs. Hollywood Control Freaks Message-ID: > Jim Choate[SMTP:ravage at ssz.com] wrote: > > On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Trei, Peter wrote: > > > Well, I'm convinced - I guess that's why every single album today is > > released on both CD *and* vinyl - can't piss off the tens of millions of > > > turntable owners, after all. > > That's not correct. There are lots of albums (aimed at DJ's for example) > that are -NEVER- available except on vinyl. Also, if you'll actually check > the 'yellow book' at your record store you'll find that over the last 4-5 > years a growing number of albums are available on CD only; no LP, no > cassette. Start in the techno and related genre. Hint, they are -not- hit > records. > Jimbo wouldn't recognize irony if it came up and bit him in the ass. Peter From register at info.telegraph.co.uk Wed Jun 5 08:08:09 2002 From: register at info.telegraph.co.uk (register at info.telegraph.co.uk) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 16:08:09 +0100 (BST) Subject: Welcome to telegraph.co.uk Message-ID: <20292581.1023289689479.JavaMail.dynamo@epping> Dear John, Thank you for registering with www.telegraph.co.uk - the gateway to our network of 21 digital channels. You now have access to the most complete and integrated news service in the market - access to breaking news and in-depth editorial, sporting scores, the Telegraph crossword, motoring and travel articles as well as car valuing and holiday booking services. You can even find yourself a new job. The extensive telegraph.co.uk archives contain millions of articles and can be accessed using the search facility located at the top left of the page, immediately below the title banner. As a registered user we urge you to take advantage of the personalisation facilities to receive the news you want, when you want it. Just login using the option above the telegraph.co.uk title banner and select one of the following personalised features, which can be accessed from my telegraph: - Your Clipboard - for saving pages to read later - Headlines- where you choose the news you want to read - Emailed News - bulletins sent directly to you - Bookmarks - a place for storing your favourite websites The following email bulletins are currently offered: Sport (Mon-Fri); Travel (Wed), Personal Finance (Fri), City News (Mon-Fri); News (Every Day); Shopping (Friday); Motoring (Friday). If you wish to change your email address at any time, please login at the top left of telegraph.co.uk using the email address and password you registered with, then select the 'edit my details' option from the my telegraph page and change your personal details. To assign yourself a new password please click 'login' and then select the 'forgotten password' option. You will automatically be sent a new password by email. If you have any queries about these features please take a look at the 'about us' section. We hope you enjoy using telegraph.co.uk. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2414 bytes Desc: not available URL: From hothooves at Flashmail.com Wed Jun 5 01:08:34 2002 From: hothooves at Flashmail.com (Eugene Brown) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 16:08:34 +0800 Subject: cypherpunks35,Natural Breast Enhancement Message-ID: ================================= Guaranteed to increase, lift and firm your breasts in 60 days or your money back!! 100% herbal and natural. Proven formula since 1996. Increase your bust by 1 to 3 sizes within 30-60 days and be all natural. Click here: http://218.7.157.206:100 Absolutely no side effects! Be more self confident! Be more comfortable in bed! No more need for a lift or support bra! 100% GUARANTEED AND FROM A NAME YOU KNOW AND TRUST! ************************************************** You are receiving this email as a double opt-in subscriber to the Standard Affiliates Mailing List. To remove yourself from all related email lists, just click here: http://218.7.157.206:100/unsubscriber.asp?userid=cypherpunks35 at hotmail.com From hothornman at Flashmail.com Wed Jun 5 01:08:43 2002 From: hothornman at Flashmail.com (Rosario Brown) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 16:08:43 +0800 Subject: cypherpunks,Larger, Shapelier Breast Without Surgery Message-ID: <200206050439.ab18929@cavewr.cavalier-intl.com> ================================= Guaranteed to increase, lift and firm your breasts in 60 days or your money back!! 100% herbal and natural. Proven formula since 1996. Increase your bust by 1 to 3 sizes within 30-60 days and be all natural. Click here: http://218.7.157.206:100 Absolutely no side effects! Be more self confident! Be more comfortable in bed! No more need for a lift or support bra! 100% GUARANTEED AND FROM A NAME YOU KNOW AND TRUST! ************************************************** You are receiving this email as a double opt-in subscriber to the Standard Affiliates Mailing List. To remove yourself from all related email lists, just click here: http://218.7.157.206:100/unsubscriber.asp?userid=cypherpunks at netscape.net From rpw at uni.de Wed Jun 5 07:18:23 2002 From: rpw at uni.de (Ralf-P. Weinmann) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 16:18:23 +0200 Subject: Palm security In-Reply-To: <20020604165816.A38750@lightship.internal.homeport.org> References: <20020604165816.A38750@lightship.internal.homeport.org> Message-ID: <20020605141823.GA16637@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de> On Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 04:58:16PM -0400, Adam Shostack wrote: > I find myself storing a pile of vaugely sensitive information on my > palm. Where do I find the competent analysis of this? Ideally, I'd > like to be able to protect things that I move into a "sensitive" area > (passwords), and maybe select items in other places that I want to > encrypt. I don't really want to have to enter a password each time I > look at my schedule and todo lists. > > Someone suggested YAPS > (http://www.palmblvd.com/software/pc/Yaps-2000-11-7-palm-pc.html) are > there others I should look at? I prefer the Keyring for PalmOS (http://gnukeyring.sourceforge.net). Comes with source code, uses 3DES for encryption (the passphrase is MD5 hashed as far as i remember). Have a look at it. Cheers, Ralf -- Ralf-P. Weinmann PGP fingerprint: 2048/46C772078ACB58DEF6EBF8030CBF1724 From moreinformation at btamail.net.cn Wed Jun 5 14:19:21 2002 From: moreinformation at btamail.net.cn (moreinformation at btamail.net.cn) Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 16:19:21 -0500 Subject: FWD: LEGAL DEPT Message-ID: <11rvtu6o.7qjh8rm21w7u@65-118-38-56.datacommarketing.com> Pennies a day
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Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 9780 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ashwood at msn.com Wed Jun 5 17:44:34 2002 From: ashwood at msn.com (Joseph Ashwood) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 17:44:34 -0700 Subject: Degrees of Freedom vs. Hollywood Control Freaks References: Message-ID: <001c01c20cf3$8a4ec700$6501a8c0@josephas> ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: CDR: RE: Degrees of Freedom vs. Hollywood Control Freaks > Ok, somebody correct me if I'm wrong here, but didn't they officially cease > production of vinyl pressings several years ago? As in *all* vinyl > pressings??? They stopped selling them to the general public, but you only have to stop by a DJ record shop (as opposed to the consumer shops) to see a wide selection of vinyl albums. DJs prefer vinyl primarily because it allows beat matching by hand, scratching, etc. The only disadvantage I know of for vinyl is that it degrades as it is played, for a DJ this isn't much of a problem since tracks have a lifespan that's measured in days or weeks the vinyl becomes useless after a few weeks, which is how long it lasts at good quality. Joe From marsese3 at rediffmail.com Wed Jun 5 18:14:56 2002 From: marsese3 at rediffmail.com (MRS M SESE SEKO) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 18:14:56 -0700 Subject: URGENT ASSISTANCE Message-ID: <200206051724.MAA22961@einstein.ssz.com> DEAR FRIEND, I AM MRS. SESE-SEKO WIDOW OF LATE PRESIDENT MOBUTU SESE-SEKO OF ZAIRE? NOW KNOWN AS DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO (DRC). I AM MOVED TO WRITE YOU THIS LETTER, THIS WAS IN CONFIDENCE CONSIDERING MY PRESENT CIRCUMSTANCE AND SITUATION. I ESCAPED ALONG WITH MY HUSBAND AND TWO OF OUR SONS SOLOMON AND BASHER OUT OF DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO (DRC) TO ABIDJAN, COTE D'IVOIRE WHERE MY FAMILY AND I SETTLED, WHILE WE LATER MOVED TO SETTLED IN MORROCO WHERE MY HUSBAND LATER DIED OF CANCER DISEASE. HOWEVER DUE TO THIS SITUATION WE DECIDED TO CHANGED MOST OF MY HUSBAND'S BILLIONS OF DOLLARS DEPOSITED IN SWISS BANK AND OTHER COUNTRIES INTO OTHER FORMS OF MONEY CODED FOR SAFE PURPOSE BECAUSE THE NEW HEAD OF STATE OF (DR) MR LAURENT KABILA HAS MADE ARRANGEMENT WITH THE SWISS GOVERNMENT AND OTHER EUROPEAN COUNTRIES TO FREEZE ALL MY LATE HUSBAND'S TREASURES DEPOSITED IN SOME EUROPEAN COUNTRIES. HENCE MY CHILDREN AND I DECIDED LAYING LOW IN AFRICA TO STUDY THE SITUATION TILL WHEN THINGS GETS BETTER, LIKE NOW THAT PRESIDENT KABILA IS DEAD AND THE SON TAKING OVER (JOSEPH KABILA). ONE OF MY LATE HUSBAND'S CHATEAUX IN SOUTHERN FRANCE WAS CONFISCATED BY THE FRENCH GOVERNMENT, AND AS SUCH I HAD TO CHANGE MY IDENTITY SO THAT MY INVESTMENT WILL NOT BE TRACED AND CONFISCATED. I HAVE DEPOSITED THE SUM THIRTY MILLION UNITED STATE DOLLARS(US$18,000,000,00.) WITH A SECURITY COMPANY , FOR SAFEKEEPING. THE FUNDS ARE SECURITY CODED TO PREVENT THEM FROM KNOWING THE CONTENT. WHAT I WANT YOU TO DO IS TO INDICATE YOUR INTEREST THAT YOU WILL ASSIST US BY RECEIVING THE MONEY ON OUR BEHALF.ACKNOWLEDGE THIS MESSAGE, SO THAT I CAN INTRODUCE YOU TO MY SON (SOLOMON) WHO HAS THE OUT MODALITIES FOR THE CLAIM OF THE SAID FUNDS. I WANT YOU TO ASSIST IN INVESTING THIS MONEY, BUT I WILL NOT WANT MY IDENTITY REVEALED. I WILL ALSO WANT TO BUY PROPERTIES AND STOCK IN MULTI-NATIONAL COMPANIES AND TO ENGAGE IN OTHER SAFE AND NON-SPECULATIVE INVESTMENTS. MAY I AT THIS POINT EMPHASISE THE HIGH LEVEL OF CONFIDENTIALITY, WHICH THIS BUSINESS DEMANDS, AND HOPE YOU WILL NOT BETRAY THE TRUST AND CONFIDENCE, WHICH I REPOSE IN YOU. IN CONCLUSION, IF YOU WANT TO ASSIST US , MY SON SHALL PUT YOU IN THE PICTURE OF THE BUSINESS, TELL YOU WHERE THE FUNDS ARE CURRENTLY BEING MAINTAINED AND ALSO DISCUSS OTHER MODALITIES INCLUDING REMUNERATION FOR YOUR SERVICES. FOR THIS REASON KINDLY FURNISH US YOUR CONTACT INFORMATION, THAT IS YOUR PERSONAL TELEPHONE AND FAX NUMBER FOR CONFIDENTIAL PURPOSE. BEST REGARDS, MRS M. SESE SEKO From marsese3 at rediffmail.com Wed Jun 5 18:26:20 2002 From: marsese3 at rediffmail.com (MRS M SESE SEKO) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 18:26:20 -0700 Subject: URGENT ASSISTANCE Message-ID: DEAR FRIEND, I AM MRS. SESE-SEKO WIDOW OF LATE PRESIDENT MOBUTU SESE-SEKO OF ZAIRE? NOW KNOWN AS DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO (DRC). I AM MOVED TO WRITE YOU THIS LETTER, THIS WAS IN CONFIDENCE CONSIDERING MY PRESENT CIRCUMSTANCE AND SITUATION. I ESCAPED ALONG WITH MY HUSBAND AND TWO OF OUR SONS SOLOMON AND BASHER OUT OF DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO (DRC) TO ABIDJAN, COTE D'IVOIRE WHERE MY FAMILY AND I SETTLED, WHILE WE LATER MOVED TO SETTLED IN MORROCO WHERE MY HUSBAND LATER DIED OF CANCER DISEASE. HOWEVER DUE TO THIS SITUATION WE DECIDED TO CHANGED MOST OF MY HUSBAND'S BILLIONS OF DOLLARS DEPOSITED IN SWISS BANK AND OTHER COUNTRIES INTO OTHER FORMS OF MONEY CODED FOR SAFE PURPOSE BECAUSE THE NEW HEAD OF STATE OF (DR) MR LAURENT KABILA HAS MADE ARRANGEMENT WITH THE SWISS GOVERNMENT AND OTHER EUROPEAN COUNTRIES TO FREEZE ALL MY LATE HUSBAND'S TREASURES DEPOSITED IN SOME EUROPEAN COUNTRIES. HENCE MY CHILDREN AND I DECIDED LAYING LOW IN AFRICA TO STUDY THE SITUATION TILL WHEN THINGS GETS BETTER, LIKE NOW THAT PRESIDENT KABILA IS DEAD AND THE SON TAKING OVER (JOSEPH KABILA). ONE OF MY LATE HUSBAND'S CHATEAUX IN SOUTHERN FRANCE WAS CONFISCATED BY THE FRENCH GOVERNMENT, AND AS SUCH I HAD TO CHANGE MY IDENTITY SO THAT MY INVESTMENT WILL NOT BE TRACED AND CONFISCATED. I HAVE DEPOSITED THE SUM THIRTY MILLION UNITED STATE DOLLARS(US$18,000,000,00.) WITH A SECURITY COMPANY , FOR SAFEKEEPING. THE FUNDS ARE SECURITY CODED TO PREVENT THEM FROM KNOWING THE CONTENT. WHAT I WANT YOU TO DO IS TO INDICATE YOUR INTEREST THAT YOU WILL ASSIST US BY RECEIVING THE MONEY ON OUR BEHALF.ACKNOWLEDGE THIS MESSAGE, SO THAT I CAN INTRODUCE YOU TO MY SON (SOLOMON) WHO HAS THE OUT MODALITIES FOR THE CLAIM OF THE SAID FUNDS. I WANT YOU TO ASSIST IN INVESTING THIS MONEY, BUT I WILL NOT WANT MY IDENTITY REVEALED. I WILL ALSO WANT TO BUY PROPERTIES AND STOCK IN MULTI-NATIONAL COMPANIES AND TO ENGAGE IN OTHER SAFE AND NON-SPECULATIVE INVESTMENTS. MAY I AT THIS POINT EMPHASISE THE HIGH LEVEL OF CONFIDENTIALITY, WHICH THIS BUSINESS DEMANDS, AND HOPE YOU WILL NOT BETRAY THE TRUST AND CONFIDENCE, WHICH I REPOSE IN YOU. IN CONCLUSION, IF YOU WANT TO ASSIST US , MY SON SHALL PUT YOU IN THE PICTURE OF THE BUSINESS, TELL YOU WHERE THE FUNDS ARE CURRENTLY BEING MAINTAINED AND ALSO DISCUSS OTHER MODALITIES INCLUDING REMUNERATION FOR YOUR SERVICES. FOR THIS REASON KINDLY FURNISH US YOUR CONTACT INFORMATION, THAT IS YOUR PERSONAL TELEPHONE AND FAX NUMBER FOR CONFIDENTIAL PURPOSE. BEST REGARDS, MRS M. SESE SEKO From morlockelloi at yahoo.com Wed Jun 5 18:33:19 2002 From: morlockelloi at yahoo.com (Morlock Elloi) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 18:33:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Degrees of Freedom vs. Hollywood Control Freaks In-Reply-To: <001c01c20cf3$8a4ec700$6501a8c0@josephas> Message-ID: <20020606013319.45332.qmail@web13204.mail.yahoo.com> > > production of vinyl pressings several years ago? As in *all* vinyl > > pressings??? > > They stopped selling them to the general public, but you only have to stop > by a DJ record shop (as opposed to the consumer shops) to see a wide Maybe in redneck-tower-records counties ... the City is full of shops that sell new vinyl, and several sell _only_ new vinyl and no CDs. ===== end (of original message) Y-a*h*o-o (yes, they scan for this) spam follows: Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From ben at algroup.co.uk Wed Jun 5 10:38:27 2002 From: ben at algroup.co.uk (Ben Laurie) Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 18:38:27 +0100 Subject: Palm security References: <20020604165816.A38750@lightship.internal.homeport.org> Message-ID: <3CFE4C93.1030807@algroup.co.uk> Adam Shostack wrote: > I find myself storing a pile of vaugely sensitive information on my > palm. Where do I find the competent analysis of this? Ideally, I'd > like to be able to protect things that I move into a "sensitive" area > (passwords), and maybe select items in other places that I want to > encrypt. I don't really want to have to enter a password each time I > look at my schedule and todo lists. > > Someone suggested YAPS > (http://www.palmblvd.com/software/pc/Yaps-2000-11-7-palm-pc.html) are > there others I should look at? I use Keyring (http://sourceforge.net/projects/gnukeyring/), though it seems to have moved on some since I last looked... Cheers, Ben. -- http://www.apache-ssl.org/ben.html http://www.thebunker.net/ "There is no limit to what a man can do or how far he can go if he doesn't mind who gets the credit." - Robert Woodruff From tcmay at got.net Wed Jun 5 18:45:52 2002 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 18:45:52 -0700 Subject: Degrees of Freedom vs. Hollywood Control Freaks In-Reply-To: <200206052015.g55KFNc82248@mailserver2.hushmail.com> Message-ID: <2282547C-78EF-11D6-8200-0050E439C473@got.net> On Wednesday, June 5, 2002, at 01:15 PM, mean-green at hushmail.com wrote: > > At 05:06 PM 6/3/2002 -0400, Trei, Peter wrote: >> Tim, I think you're missing the point here. Valenti and his ilk would >> like > nothing more than to force you to to rebuy your visual media *again*, > but > they don't have to. I'll bet dollars to donuts that you've rebought > some of > your VCR tapes as DVDs. Whey wouldn't the MPAA think they can > make you do it over? > > Tim may be willing or able to repurchase his movie collection but many > are not. I've "backed" up all of the movies I have on VHS onto CDs > (2-3 per movie average) from DVD in a high quality format called SVCD. > As soon as my budget allows I'll be a DVD burn'in fool. I only bought one (1) VHS tape, ever (*). That was "Pulp Fiction." So far, I don't have it on DVD. (* I am only counting popular movie versions on VHS. I do have such VHS tapes as "Tactical Shotgun," "Street Smarts," and "FN-FAL Armorer's Guide," as these are specialty items.) However, I have vast numbers of tapes (several hundred, since my first VCR in 1979) made of things from my cable and more recently my satellite systems. And the Supreme Court decision, Disney v. Sony, makes these tapes perfectly legal. Moreover, the Home Recording Act of the early 90s explicitly collected a tax on blank tapes in "exchange" for making my collection of around 800 CDs on DAT and CD-R fully legal. (A friend of mine has more than 6000 CDs recorded onto DAT and CD-R, all perfectly legal under HRA. Knowing how lawyerscum argue, there are probably those claiming that the HRA was superceded by the Millennium Copyright New World Order Enablement Act, but that is absurd. The tax was collected on the blank tapes and CD-R blanks. If they wish to send me a check for all of these taxes collected, trusting only my word (as no records were required to be kept), AND if they wish to compensate me for the labors I made to comply with their laws that are now INOPERATIVE, blah blah blah. (An obvious absurdity, I understand. My point is that Congress cannot simply monkey around with laws when past laws made certain things fully legal. This would be an example of an "ex post facto law," something explicity, and rightly, banned by the Constitution.) BTW, I use my Ultimate TV to collect many hours of raw signal, some of which I make my own tapes with. These play well on every VCR I've tried. For example, I made a nice tape of two of my favorite "Outer Limits" episodes: "Demon with a Glass Hand" and "Soldier," both written by Harlan Ellison. No sign of any "Macrovision" junk, and now I have a perfect tape costing me $1.39 in tape costs for what "Blockbuster" wants at least $20 for, when it even has the old "Outer Limits" episodes. (The quality is quite good. I recorded this at standard VHS, fast speed setting. My VCRs are S-VHS, but I used VHS so I can play it on the VCRs belonging to friends.) I don't have any plan to replace my large library of taped programs and movies with DVD versions. They taxed me on the tapes, so fuck them on any idea that they can now make my taping illegal. --Tim May ""Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined." --Patrick Henry From tcmay at got.net Wed Jun 5 18:48:55 2002 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 18:48:55 -0700 Subject: Degrees of Freedom vs. Hollywood Control Freaks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8F5DAC2D-78EF-11D6-8200-0050E439C473@got.net> On Wednesday, June 5, 2002, at 05:25 PM, measl at mfn.org wrote: > On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Jim Choate wrote: > >> On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Trei, Peter wrote: >> >>> Well, I'm convinced - I guess that's why every single album today is >>> released on both CD *and* vinyl - can't piss off the tens of millions >>> of >>> turntable owners, after all. >> >> That's not correct. There are lots of albums (aimed at DJ's for >> example) >> that are -NEVER- available except on vinyl. > > Ok, somebody correct me if I'm wrong here, but didn't they officially > cease > production of vinyl pressings several years ago? As in *all* vinyl > pressings??? Yes, They did. They decided that They would press no more vinyl and that They would Others to conform to Their wishes. Sadly, not all persons have conformed to Their orders. Vinyl pressings are still being made! The Horror. (BTW, who the fuck is "They"?) --Tim May "Stupidity is not a sin, the victim can't help being stupid. But stupidity is the only universal crime; the sentence is death, there is no appeal, and execution is carried out automatically and without pity." --Robert A. Heinlein From hamza_abacha at lycos.com Wed Jun 5 16:12:12 2002 From: hamza_abacha at lycos.com (hamza Abacha) Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 19:12:12 -0400 Subject: URGENT BUSINESS ASSISTANCE Message-ID: FROM: HAMZA ABACHALAGOS, NIGERIA DEAR Sir, I AM WRITING WITH THE SPIRIT OF LOVE AND TRUST WITH THE BELIEVE OF ESTABILISHING A VERY CORDIAL RELATIONSHIP WITH YOU BASED ON TRUST AND CONFIDENT. I AM HAMZA ABACHA SON OF THE FORMAL PRESIDENT OF THE FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF NIGERIA (NOW LATE). GENERAL SANI ABACHA, AND I GOT YOUR CONTACT VIA YOUR COUNTRY'S HOME AFFAIRS OFFICE HERE IN NIGERIA BASED ON THIS, I DECIDED TO CONFIDE IN YOU ON A VERY CONFIDENTIAL BUSINESS PROPOSAL AND RELATIONSHIP. AFTER MY FATHER占폮 SUDDEN DEATH ON JUNE 8TH 1998. THE CONDITION AND STATE OF OUR FAMILY占폮 LIVING BECAME FRUSTRATED BY THE PRESENT CIVILIAN GOVERNMENT IN POWER, MAKING OUR LIVES TOTALLY HELL AND MISREABLE FOR US THE FAMILY MEMBERS TO LIVE IN NIGERIA. SO THAT MOTIVATED THE EFFORT BY OUR FAMILY TO SHARE OUR FAMILY ASSETS FOR POSSIBLE PERSONAL AND INDIVIDUAL INVESTMENT ABROAD. ON THIS NOTE I DECIDED TO INVEST MY OWN SHARE OF THE FAMILY WEALTH WITH YOU IN YOUR HOME COUNTRY WITH YOUR FULL TRUST ASSISTANCE AND CO-OPERATION. I HAVE $10,000,000.00 USD, (TEN MILLION UNITED STATES DOLLARS) TO INVEST WHICH IS READY TO BE TRANSFERED INTO YOUR NOMINATED ACCOUNT, SO YOU CAN OPEN UP A NEW ACCOUNT FOR THIS INVESTMENT. IF YOU ARE NOT CAPABLE OF HANDLING THIS, FEEL FREE TO INVOLVE A SECOND PARTY. I INTEND TO COME OVER TO YOUR HOME COUNTRY FOR SETTLEMENT IMMEDIATELY THIS MONEY GETS TO YOUR ACCOUNT, SO YOUR FULL COOPERATION IS HIGHLY NEEDED. WISHING YOU THE BEST OF LIFE WHILE WAITING ON YOUR EARLIEST REPLY VIA MY EMAIL IMMEDIATELY ON RECIEPT OF THIS MAIL. YOURS LOVE, HAMZA ABACHA _______________________________________________________ WIN a first class trip to Hawaii. Live like the King of Rock and Roll on the big Island. Enter Now! http://r.lycos.com/r/sagel_mail/http://www.elvis.lycos.com/sweepstakes From measl at mfn.org Wed Jun 5 17:25:37 2002 From: measl at mfn.org (measl at mfn.org) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 19:25:37 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Degrees of Freedom vs. Hollywood Control Freaks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Jim Choate wrote: > On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Trei, Peter wrote: > > > Well, I'm convinced - I guess that's why every single album today is > > released on both CD *and* vinyl - can't piss off the tens of millions of > > turntable owners, after all. > > That's not correct. There are lots of albums (aimed at DJ's for example) > that are -NEVER- available except on vinyl. Ok, somebody correct me if I'm wrong here, but didn't they officially cease production of vinyl pressings several years ago? As in *all* vinyl pressings??? -- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin at mfn.org If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jason at lunkwill.org Wed Jun 5 12:37:34 2002 From: jason at lunkwill.org (Jason Holt) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 19:37:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Laurie's blinding w/cut and choose? Message-ID: In his paper on Lucre ("2nd defence" against marking): http://anoncvs.aldigital.co.uk/lucre/ Ben Laurie gives this as a (possibly patent-free) blinding technique, where h is the message, and g is the public generator: r = blind(h) = h^y * g^b (mod p) To "sign", s = sign(r) = m^h To unblind, (s/g^k^b)^(1/y) (mod p) (where k is the signer's secret exponent. Of course, nobody but the signer can verify the signature). Unfortunately, this doesn't work with cut and choose where the signer signs the product of unrevealed documents, since the 1/y exponent above would distribute to all the internal terms: ((r * r * r ...)^k)^(1/y ) 1 2 3 1 ------------------------------ != (h * r * r ...)^k (mod p) (g^k)^b 1 2 3 1 Can anyone see how to get this to work? It doesn't matter for Ben's money system since he doesn't need cut and choose, but I'm working on a patent-free credential system where the issuer needs to cut and choose to keep the user from cheating. Alternatively, is there another way to get some sort of blind mark (that foils the issuer from adding subliminal information that would compromise the blinding) without stepping on Chaum's patent? I hear Chaum mentioned one himself at PET 2002, but I can't find anything about it online. -J From morlockelloi at yahoo.com Wed Jun 5 20:37:18 2002 From: morlockelloi at yahoo.com (Morlock Elloi) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 20:37:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Degrees of Freedom vs. Hollywood Control Freaks In-Reply-To: <2282547C-78EF-11D6-8200-0050E439C473@got.net> Message-ID: <20020606033718.59674.qmail@web13204.mail.yahoo.com> > I only bought one (1) VHS tape, ever (*). That was "Pulp Fiction." So > far, I don't have it on DVD. DVDs are probably the first product ever rolled out exclusively for content control purposes. Quality-wise, it's somewhat better than VHS and almost the same as Hi-8 (which I use for archiving purposes), and definitely inferior to analog laserdisc, which had a thriving market but is now almost extinct (a nice side-effect being that titles are now available for $5-10 and there are some which will never make it to DVD). Hype and brandheads that salivate on words like "dolby" "surroundumb sound" aside, average consumer got only new expense with DVDs - buying a player. Like CDs, audio cassetes and IP protocol, VHS will stay forever with us. ===== end (of original message) Y-a*h*o-o (yes, they scan for this) spam follows: Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From gbnewby at ils.unc.edu Wed Jun 5 17:47:34 2002 From: gbnewby at ils.unc.edu (Greg Newby) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 20:47:34 -0400 Subject: Degrees of Freedom vs. Hollywood Control Freaks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020606004733.GB15157@ils.unc.edu> On Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 07:25:37PM -0500, measl at mfn.org wrote: > > > On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Jim Choate wrote: > > > On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Trei, Peter wrote: > > > > > Well, I'm convinced - I guess that's why every single album today is > > > released on both CD *and* vinyl - can't piss off the tens of millions of > > > turntable owners, after all. > > > > That's not correct. There are lots of albums (aimed at DJ's for example) > > that are -NEVER- available except on vinyl. > > Ok, somebody correct me if I'm wrong here, but didn't they officially cease > production of vinyl pressings several years ago? As in *all* vinyl > pressings??? Stop by your local independent record store, you'll find plenty of new vinyl. It's especially popular with punk & urban music, also small independent bands. Maybe the big labels aren't putting it out any more... by all appearances, the independent labels are. -- Greg From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Jun 5 20:27:35 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 22:27:35 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Degrees of Freedom vs. Hollywood Control Freaks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Jun 2002 measl at mfn.org wrote: > Ok, somebody correct me if I'm wrong here, but didn't they officially cease > production of vinyl pressings several years ago? As in *all* vinyl > pressings??? Which they? Lots of little DJ mix'ers cut several hundred albums and then sell them to other DJ's who then use them for their own mix. There's a whole little industry going. Surplus...The street finds its own uses for technology. -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From carlo at wirelesscellutions.com Wed Jun 5 20:52:05 2002 From: carlo at wirelesscellutions.com (Carlo Rodriguez) Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 22:53:05 -0459 Subject: Handset Inventory Clearance! Message-ID: <200206052325546.SM00856@carlo> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 25529 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tcmay at got.net Wed Jun 5 23:29:01 2002 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 23:29:01 -0700 Subject: Degrees of Freedom vs. Hollywood Control Freaks In-Reply-To: <20020606033718.59674.qmail@web13204.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wednesday, June 5, 2002, at 08:37 PM, Morlock Elloi wrote: >> I only bought one (1) VHS tape, ever (*). That was "Pulp Fiction." So >> far, I don't have it on DVD. > > DVDs are probably the first product ever rolled out exclusively for > content > control purposes. > > Quality-wise, it's somewhat better than VHS and almost the same as Hi-8 > (which > I use for archiving purposes), and definitely inferior to analog > laserdisc, > which had a thriving market but is now almost extinct (a nice > side-effect being > that titles are now available for $5-10 and there are some which will > never > make it to DVD). > > Hype and brandheads that salivate on words like "dolby" "surroundumb > sound" > aside, average consumer got only new expense with DVDs - buying a > player. > > Like CDs, audio cassetes and IP protocol, VHS will stay forever with us. > I disagree, politely, with nearly every point you make. DVDs are taking off faster than I have ever seen a product take off, and I've seen quite a few. They are vastly better than VHS, in picture quality, and are mechanically superior to VHS in nearly every way. (No broken/stretched tapes, no complicated read heads and capstans to get knocked out of whack, scratched, etc.) (I also have Hi-8, but would never think of archiving _anything_ to it. Flimsy heads/capstans in spades. Ditto for DV, which I also have. It's resolution is the best of all, but it's convenience and robustness are dubious.) I started looking at laser disks in 1979, but never bought one. The disks were too large and unwieldy to be a competitive format. VHS will of course be around, in the same way that LPs are still around, and even in the way that 78s can still be played with the right equipment. But the morphism from LP --> CD is being outpaced by the VHS --> DVD morphism. There's a good reason why DVDs are doing so well. --Tim May "They played all kinds of games, kept the House in session all night, and it was a very complicated bill. Maybe a handful of staffers actually read it, but the bill definitely was not available to members before the vote." --Rep. Ron Paul, TX, on how few Congresscritters saw the USA-PATRIOT Bill before voting overwhelmingly to impose a police state From mgpublishing at newmail.com Wed Jun 5 20:52:07 2002 From: mgpublishing at newmail.com (MG PUBLISHING) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 23:52:07 -0400 Subject: Available; Grants, Loans, Financing Message-ID: <200206060355.WAA29533@einstein.ssz.com> MG PUBLISHING 73 Prim road # 216 Colchester Vermont USA 05446 PRESS RELEASE AMERICAN GRANTS AND LOANS DIRECTORY Legal Deposit-ISBN 2-922870-09-9 (2002) M.G. Publishing is offering to the public a revised edition of the AMERICAN GRANTS AND LOANS DIRECTORY, a guide containing more than 1400 direct and indirect financial subsidies, grants and loans offered by government departments and agencies, foundations, associations and organizations. In this new 2002 edition all programs are well described. The AMERICAN GRANTS AND LOANS DIRECTORY is the most comprehensive tool to start up a business, improve existent activities, set up a business plan, or obtain assistance from experts in fields such as: Industry, transport, agriculture,communications, municipal infrastructure, education, import-export, labor, construction and renovation, the service sector, hi-tech industries, research and development, joint ventures, arts, cinema, theatre, music and recording industry, the self employed, contests, and new talents. Assistance from and for foundations and associations, guidance to prepare a business plan, market surveys, computers, and much more! The AMERICAN GRANTS AND LOANS DIRECTORY is sold $ 49.95, to obtain a copy please call the following bookstore: American Publications: (866)322-3376 From nobody at dizum.com Wed Jun 5 15:50:07 2002 From: nobody at dizum.com (Nomen Nescio) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 00:50:07 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Laurie's blinding w/cut and choose? Message-ID: <34a8ec156656e9ebd1650e7bd9281e53@dizum.com> Jason Holt writes: > In his paper on Lucre ("2nd defence" against marking): > http://anoncvs.aldigital.co.uk/lucre/ > > Ben Laurie gives this as a (possibly patent-free) blinding technique, > where h is the message, and g is the public generator: > > r = blind(h) = h^y * g^b (mod p) > > To "sign", > > s = sign(r) = m^h > > To unblind, > > (s/g^k^b)^(1/y) (mod p) > > (where k is the signer's secret exponent. Of course, nobody but the > signer can verify the signature). Unfortunately, this doesn't work with cut > and choose where the signer signs the product of unrevealed documents, since > the 1/y exponent above would distribute to all the internal terms: Boy, you've got a lot of faith asking this question on cypherpunks. It's not exactly the intellectual center of the crypto freedom movement these days, you know. The average IQ is rapidly descending into double digits, even not counting Choate. But let's see what we can do for you. First, let's fix your notation. r = blind(h) = h^y * g^b OK s = sign(r) = r^k, not m^h. unblind(s) = (s/g^k^b)^(1/y) = h^k = sign(h). That's what you want to end up with, h^k, as the pseudo-signature on h. Now for a credential system, you apparently want to create a bunch of values which have some structure, and get a signature on a product of them. Using cut and choose, the client will prepare blinded forms of all of the values, then the server will ask for half of the blinding factors to be revealed. This exposes the raw values to be signed and the server can make sure they are in the right form. If so, it then signs the product of the remaining values, which the client unblinds to get back a good signature on the product of the unblinded values. The fundamental problem with this is that the blinding factors have to be different for each of the values. If they are all the same, then when they are revealed for some of the values during cut and choose, that will reveal them for all of them, and so none of them will be effectively blinded any more. But if the blinding factors are all different, we can't unblind since we don't have a unique power 1/y to raise to. That's your problem, right? Here are a couple of possible solutions. First, you could do a cut and choose in which all but one of the blinded values are revealed, and only the remaining (unrevealed) one is signed. This has the problem that it has only a 1/n security factor with n values. That is, the client can just guess which one the server won't ask to check, and if it sent say 100 values, it has a 1/100 chance of getting lucky, which might seem too high. However since credential issuing usually occurs in a non-anonymous context, you can afford to penalize people very heavily if they are caught in this manner. (Cutting the connection and refusing to resume with the previous values has to count as cheating.) Another approach is as follows. Go back to the 50-50 cut and choose with signature on the product. However, use the same y blinding factor for all of the values. Now when the client has to reveal during cut and choose, it keeps the y value secret but reveals all of the h and b values. It then proves in zero knowledge that there exists a y such that the h^y equals the required value. This is a standard ZK proof of knowledge of a discrete logarithm. It is similar to the example Ben's paper gives of how the bank can prove it is raising to the right power. Since you don't have to reveal y, you can use the same y for all of them and successfully perform the unblind operation, getting back the signature on the product of the h's as required. But actually another solution is much simpler, which is to do blinding as just h * g^b, without a y factor. That works fine as long as the bank is known not to be misbehaving. Ben's paper shows how the bank can use a ZK proof to show that it is raising to the same power k every time, basically again that same ZK proof regarding discrete logarithms. If the bank uses such a proof then you can use simpler blinding without a y factor, and you can recover the signature on the product of your h values by dividing by g^k^(sum of b's). So there you go. A little technical for cypherpunks, but unfortunately coderpunks, like the little old lady, has fallen and it can't get up. From MO2037_20020530_843 at link2buy.com Thu Jun 6 02:21:55 2002 From: MO2037_20020530_843 at link2buy.com (EAASI) Date: Thu Jun 06 02:21:55 PDT 2002 Subject: Dish Satellite TV Installed FREE in 4 Rooms Message-ID: <850218409.1023357129944.mu@link2buy.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 12282 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nobody at remailer.privacy.at Wed Jun 5 17:25:07 2002 From: nobody at remailer.privacy.at (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 02:25:07 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Laurie's blinding w/cut and choose? Message-ID: Jason Holt writes: > In his paper on Lucre ("2nd defence" against marking): > http://anoncvs.aldigital.co.uk/lucre/ > > Ben Laurie gives this as a (possibly patent-free) blinding technique, > where h is the message, and g is the public generator: > > r = blind(h) = h^y * g^b (mod p) > > To "sign", > > s = sign(r) = m^h > > To unblind, > > (s/g^k^b)^(1/y) (mod p) > > (where k is the signer's secret exponent. Of course, nobody but the > signer can verify the signature). Unfortunately, this doesn't work with cut > and choose where the signer signs the product of unrevealed documents, since > the 1/y exponent above would distribute to all the internal terms: Boy, you've got a lot of faith asking this question on cypherpunks. It's not exactly the intellectual center of the crypto freedom movement these days, you know. The average IQ is rapidly descending into double digits, even not counting Choate. But let's see what we can do for you. First, let's fix your notation. r = blind(h) = h^y * g^b OK s = sign(r) = r^k, not m^h. unblind(s) = (s/g^k^b)^(1/y) = h^k = sign(h). That's what you want to end up with, h^k, as the pseudo-signature on h. Now for a credential system, you apparently want to create a bunch of values which have some structure, and get a signature on a product of them. Using cut and choose, the client will prepare blinded forms of all of the values, then the server will ask for half of the blinding factors to be revealed. This exposes the raw values to be signed and the server can make sure they are in the right form. If so, it then signs the product of the remaining values, which the client unblinds to get back a good signature on the product of the unblinded values. Done properly, with n values this gives you 2^n security against bogus data in the credenial. The fundamental problem with this is that the blinding factors have to be different for each of the values. If they are all the same, then when they are revealed for some of the values during cut and choose, that will reveal them for all of them, and so none of them will be effectively blinded any more. But if the blinding factors are all different, we can't unblind since we don't have a unique power 1/y to raise to. That's your problem, right? Here are a couple of possible solutions. First, you could do a cut and choose in which all but one of the blinded values are revealed, and only the remaining (unrevealed) one is signed. This has the problem that it has only a 1/n security factor with n values. That is, the client can just guess which one the server won't ask to check, and if it sent say 100 values, it has a 1/100 chance of getting lucky, which might seem too high. However since credential issuing usually occurs in a non-anonymous context, you can afford to penalize people very heavily if they are caught in this manner. (Cutting the connection and refusing to resume with the previous values has to count as cheating.) Another approach is as follows. Go back to the 50-50 cut and choose with signature on the product. However, use the same y blinding factor for all of the values. Now when the client has to reveal during cut and choose, it keeps the y value secret but reveals all of the h and b values. It then proves in zero knowledge that there exists a y such that the h^y equals the required value. This is a standard ZK proof of knowledge of a discrete logarithm. It is similar to the example Ben's paper gives of how the bank can prove it is raising to the right power. Since you don't have to reveal y, you can use the same y for all of them and successfully perform the unblind operation, getting back the signature on the product of the h's as required. But actually another solution is much simpler, which is to do blinding as just h * g^b, without a y factor. That works fine as long as the bank is known not to be misbehaving. Ben's paper shows how the bank can use a ZK proof to show that it is raising to the same power k every time, basically again that same ZK proof regarding discrete logarithms. If the bank uses such a proof then you can use simpler blinding without a y factor, and you can recover the signature on the product of your h values by dividing by g^k^(sum of b's). So there you go. A little technical for cypherpunks, but unfortunately coderpunks, like the little old lady, has fallen and it can't get up. From Tessa335 at mylover.zzn.com Thu Jun 6 04:09:13 2002 From: Tessa335 at mylover.zzn.com (Anny) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 4:09:13 PM -0500 Subject: Hey Cypherpunks, it's Anny Message-ID: <3923.732973@mylover.zzn.com> Cypherpunks , do you believe in it? ..Do you believe that "BEST SEX MUST BE FREE"? If you do, - stop searching and welcome to Free Sex Planet! It's the newest free site with largest, ultimate collection of totally free sex resources! ENJOY over 50 HUGE, STEAMY FREE GALLERIES with dozens of free images in each one, all updated weekly! You'll find there everything that you ever dreamed of! And it's 100% Free, as it should be on a Free Sex Planet. Go there now, thank me later. http://freeyellow.com:freehost at www.coupleslibertins.com/web/alenax/?q=11256012 Kisses, Anny Free Sex Planet hostess This is not a UCE! This is a friendly bonus mailing from AirExpress sent to cypherpunks at algebra.com. You either subscribed to free Internet resource lately or somebody entered your address for you. To stop ALL future mailings instantly, click here or send email here: mailto:girdyn at mylover.zzn.com?subject=remove cypherpunks at algebra.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1773 bytes Desc: not available URL: From eresrch at eskimo.com Thu Jun 6 06:35:07 2002 From: eresrch at eskimo.com (Mike Rosing) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 06:35:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Laurie's blinding w/cut and choose? In-Reply-To: <34a8ec156656e9ebd1650e7bd9281e53@dizum.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Jun 2002, Nomen Nescio wrote: > So there you go. A little technical for cypherpunks, but unfortunately > coderpunks, like the little old lady, has fallen and it can't get up. A shame really. The math is the best part of it all. Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike From erika at bounce.net Thu Jun 6 07:40:04 2002 From: erika at bounce.net (erika at bounce.net) Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 06:40:04 -0800 Subject: Check Out The Lowest Mortgage Rates In 15 Years! Message-ID: <5uqc1e7yiu.4vadbp@cpimssmtpa17.msn.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 7354 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mv at cdc.gov Thu Jun 6 07:05:49 2002 From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret)) Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 07:05:49 -0700 Subject: tracking tech: J. Bell-like vehicle tracker used by locals, malfunctions Message-ID: <3CFF6C3D.B8BC7A90@cdc.gov> Investigators had a list of 20 possible suspects, but Fischer was moved to the top. Detectives said they attached a tracking device to her car, hoping to catch her in the act. On Sunday, more than 30 razor blades were found hidden in Alicia Park in Mission Viejo. Had Fischer been there, the tracking device should have recorded her visit to the park. But the device malfunctioned. http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-000039747jun06.story?coll=la%2Dheadlines%2Dcalifornia From jya at pipeline.com Thu Jun 6 08:13:30 2002 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 08:13:30 -0700 Subject: US Mass Market Crypto Exportable Message-ID: The US Bureau of Industry and Security published today: http://cryptome.org/bis060602.txt (108KB) Revisions and Clarifications to Encryption Controls in the Export Administration Regulations--Implementation of Changes in Category 5, Part 2 (``Information Security''), of the Wassenaar Arrangement List of Dual-Use Goods and Other Technologies SUMMARY: This rule amends the Export Administration Regulations (EAR) to reflect changes made to the Wassenaar Arrangement List of dual-use items, and to update and clarify other provisions of the EAR pertaining to encryption export controls. Consistent with the Wassenaar changes, Note No. 3 (``Cryptography Note'') to Category 5--part II (Information Security) of the Commerce Control List (CCL) is amended to allow mass market treatment for all encryption products, including products with symmetric algorithms employing key lengths greater than 64-bits, that previously were not eligible for mass market treatment. As a result, for the first time, mass market encryption commodities and software with symmetric key lengths exceeding 64 bits may be exported and reexported to most destinations without a license under Export Control Classification Numbers (ECCNs) 5A992 and 5D992, following a 30-day review by the Bureau of Industry and Security (BIS) (formerly the Bureau of Export Administration (BXA)). In addition, this rule, for the first time, allows equipment controlled under ECCN 5B002 to be exported and reexported under License Exception ENC. For all other information security items, including encryption source code that would be considered publicly available, this rule updates and clarifies existing notification, review, licensing and post-export reporting requirements. Restrictions on exports and reexports of encryption items to terrorist- supporting states (Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Sudan and Syria), their nationals and other sanctioned persons (individuals and entities) are not changed by this rule. DATES: This rule is effective June 6, 2002. From mean-green at hushmail.com Thu Jun 6 08:54:27 2002 From: mean-green at hushmail.com (mean-green at hushmail.com) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 08:54:27 -0700 Subject: Degrees of Freedom vs. Hollywood Control Freaks Message-ID: <200206061554.g56FsR404574@mailserver2.hushmail.com> At 11:29 PM 6/5/2002 -0700, Tim May wrote: On Wednesday, June 5, 2002, at 08:37 PM, Morlock Elloi wrote: >>>I only bought one (1) VHS tape, ever (*). That was "Pulp Fiction." So far, I don't have it on DVD. >>DVDs are probably the first product ever rolled out exclusively for content control purposes. >>Quality-wise, it's somewhat better than VHS and almost the same as Hi-8 (which I use for archiving purposes), and definitely inferior to analog laserdisc, which had a thriving market but is now almost extinct (a nice side-effect being that titles are now available for $5-10 and there are some which will never make it to DVD). >>Hype and brandheads that salivate on words like "dolby" "surroundumb sound" aside, average consumer got only new expense with DVDs - buying a player. >>Like CDs, audio cassetes and IP protocol, VHS will stay forever with us. >I disagree, politely, with nearly every point you make. >DVDs are taking off faster than I have ever seen a product take off, and I've seen quite a few. >They are vastly better than VHS, in picture quality, and are mechanically superior to VHS in nearly every way. (No broken/stretched tapes, no complicated read heads and capstans to get knocked out of whack, scratched, etc.) [The following video data snippets are from the excellent hobbyist video site www.vcdhelp.com Many foreign contributors, some with only passable English skills.]] The official (legal) resolutions for optical media are: 720 X 576 (480 NTSC). Used by most DVD. 704 X 576 (480 NTSC). Used by some DVD 480 X 576 (480 NTSC). Used by SVCD 352 X 576 (480 NTSC). Used by DVD and China Video Disc (CVD). It is also the "official" SVHS resolution. 352 X 288 (240 NTSC). Used by VCD and DVD. It is also the "official" VHS resolution The official names for those resolutions, come from US and there are defined like this: 720 X 576 (480 NTSC): CCIR-601, Full PAL/NTSC Studio resolution. 704 X 576 (480 NTSC) as 1/1 D1 or simply as D1(Sometimes this resolution is 702 X 576/480). It is the TV Broadcast resolution 528 X 576 (480 NTSC) as 3/4 D1. It is supposed to be the Laser Disc resolution, but ain't. I'll explain later 480 X 576 (480 NTSC) as 2/3 D1. It is the SVCD resolution. 352 X 576 (480 NTSC) as 1/2 D1. Used by DVD and CVD The VCD resolution is 352 X 288 (240 NTSC) and it is called CIF- 601. In Europe and especially Far East Asia, people tend to use other names to describe the legal DVD - Video resolutions. 704 X 576 as D1 352 X 576 as D2 352 X 288 as D4 704 X 288 as D3. >(I also have Hi-8, but would never think of archiving _anything_ to it. Flimsy heads/capstans in spades. Ditto for DV, which I also have. It's resolution is the best of all, but it's convenience and robustness are dubious.) >I started looking at laser disks in 1979, but never bought one. The disks were too large and unwieldy to be a competitive format. Laserdisc The official Laserdisc resolution is 528 X 576/480, but many titles in US, after 1990, are using the 544 X 480 resolution. That happened because the first "cheap" video projectors in US, were using the VGA standard for video in. Of course, those machines were for professional use with PCs. But with the use of special (and cheap) connectors/adaptors or the "famous" VGA - out connection of specific Laserdiscs, it was possible for the very first time, for US video enthusiast, to have big picture at there houses. It was the only true solution for the first home theatres (the term "home cinema" came later...). Unfortunately, VGA is not based on CCIR-601, so a picture adaption is needed (VGA is 640 X 480). In other words, the picture aspect was wrong and always a part or some parts of the picture was not in use. Because of Laser Disc limitations, the use of pan and scan method (like DVD - Video) wasn't possible. The only solution without compatibility problems and no cost, was to "upgrade" the Laserdisc resolution, unofficially, to 544 X 480. In Europe, the success of Laserdisc was minimal, so the few released PAL titles, continue to use the official resolution for PAL (528 X 576). In theory, there is a 544 X 576, but I never saw a PAL laserdisc using this resolution. The DVB/ -s -t -c resolutions The DVB transmissions became mainstream in Europe in 1996 and today are mainstream in US too. In the last five years, the European Union (E.U.), forced all television and radio providers of E.U. Members, to turn their services digital. So, except Germany and partly France (where the interest for analog satellite TV still is huge), everything today is digital. DVB is based on mpeg 2 (like DVD) and supports resolutions from full CIRR - 601 (top quality) to CIF (lowest quality). Any resolution between those limits can be a DVB picture resolution, with any bitrate/size. The correct output picture aspect is accomplished by the use of the pan and scan method, which takes place between the Digital/Analog conversion, before the final picture signal goes to our TV/Videoprojector. Some DVB examples: - The Holland channels Canal+ Rood and Canal+Blauw (Astra 1G - 19.2 East), are transmitting in full CCIR 601 resolution with VBR bitrate up to 15000kb/s (!). That is BETTER a standard DVD video. - TMF for Belgium and MTV Italy, both on Eutelsat W2 (16 East) are transmitting in full D1 resolution and bitrates up to 7500kb/s - The MTV/VH1 Channels on Astra 1G, are using 544 X 576. - Viva TV on Astra 1G and Onyx TV on Hotbird 3, are using 480 X 576. 352 X 576 is very common at almost all the Italian Free To Air music channels on Hotbird satellite series. An example of very low picture resolution, is the Cnes channel (Hotbird 5, 13 east, Freq: 12558, S.R. 27500, F.E.C. 3/4). This channel transmits 352 X 288 with CBR bitrate up to?. 700kb/s!!!). The known DVB resolutions till today in Europe are: 720 X 576, 704 X 576, 544 X 576, 528 X 576, 480 X 576, 352 X 576 and 352 X 288. Communicate in total privacy. Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2 Looking for a good deal on a domain name? http://www.hush.com/partners/offers.cgi?id=domainpeople From InsightontheNews at broadbandpublisher.com Thu Jun 6 06:56:27 2002 From: InsightontheNews at broadbandpublisher.com (Insight on the News) Date: 06 Jun 2002 09:56:27 -0400 Subject: Insight on the News Email Edition Message-ID: <200206060956192.SM01140@broadbandpublisher.com> INSIGHT NEWS ALERT! New Stories From Insight on the News Are Now Online. http://insightmag.com ............................................... Folks, don占퐐 miss Gordon Thomas占� breaking bombshell on how al Qaeda may have acquired enough Uranium-235 to make a 占퐏uitcase bomb占쏙옙from the Russian Mafia! http://insightmag.com/news/254837.html And John Berlau占퐏 expose of how Canada has turned itself into a terrorist haven has set tongues wagging from Washington to Ottawa. http://insightmag.com/news/254290.html That占퐏 it for now. Until next time, from the Bunker, I占퐉 your newsman in Washington. ............................................... AL QAEDA, THE RUSSIAN MOB, AND THE 占폮UITCASE DEVICE占� Gordon Thomas reveals that German scientists are tracking the possibility that Osama bin Laden and the Al Quada group have obtained further nuclear material. Three associates were arrested in Paris with enough Uranium-235 to create a "suitcase-type nuclear bomb"占폺ourtesy of the Russian Mafia. http://insightmag.com/news/254837.html ............................................... DON占폯 GO IN THE WATER (OR占�.WHO占폮 ENDANGERED HERE?) 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Ignorance of our past has been carefully cultivated by the educational establishment, and the result is a cut-flower generation, severed from its roots. http://insightmag.com/news/254233.html ............................................... REAPING THE EBONIC PLAGUE Nicholas Stix opines that for the last six years, with the connivance of the mainstream media, most Americans have been able to forget ebonics. Unfortunately, however, this foolishness has continued. http://insightmag.com/news/254234.html ======================================== SUBSCRIBE TO THE INSIGHT PRINT EDITION TODAY! And Save 72% (Off Our Newsstand Price) https://www.collegepublisher.com/insightsub/subform1.cfm ======================================= You have received this newsletter because you have a user name and password at Insight on the News. To unsubscribe from this newsletter, visit "http://insightmag.com/main.cfm?include=unsubscribe". You may also log into Insight on the News and edit your account preferences on the Web. If you have forgotten or don't know your user name and password, it will be emailed to you after visiting the following link: http://insightmag.com/main.cfm?include=emailPassword&serialNumber=16oai891z5&email=cypherpunks at ssz.com From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Thu Jun 6 08:20:20 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 10:20:20 -0500 Subject: CNN.com - Bush to announce new intelligence agency - June 6, 2002 Message-ID: <3CFF7DB4.EE8A16C5@ssz.com> http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/06/06/bush.security/index.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From hothoney79 at Flashmail.com Wed Jun 5 19:24:59 2002 From: hothoney79 at Flashmail.com (Erlinda Bower) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 10:24:59 +0800 Subject: cyoung,Bigger, Fuller Breasts Naturally In Just Weeks Message-ID: <200206060229.g562Tmho015402@ak47.algebra.com> ================================= Guaranteed to increase, lift and firm your breasts in 60 days or your money back!! 100% herbal and natural. Proven formula since 1996. Increase your bust by 1 to 3 sizes within 30-60 days and be all natural. Click here: http://218.7.157.206:100 Absolutely no side effects! Be more self confident! Be more comfortable in bed! No more need for a lift or support bra! 100% GUARANTEED AND FROM A NAME YOU KNOW AND TRUST! ************************************************** You are receiving this email as a double opt-in subscriber to the Standard Affiliates Mailing List. To remove yourself from all related email lists, just click here: http://218.7.157.206:100/unsubscriber.asp?userid=cyoung at magna.com.au From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Thu Jun 6 08:26:32 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 10:26:32 -0500 Subject: Slashdot | Is China's Control of the internet Slipping? Message-ID: <3CFF7F28.996A6EA8@ssz.com> http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/02/06/06/1225245.shtml?tid=153 -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Jun 6 08:28:35 2002 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 10:28:35 -0500 Subject: Slashdot | Using Your Privacy Against You (CC Fraud, e-commerce, terrorism) Message-ID: <3CFF7FA3.98C5278D@ssz.com> http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/02/06/06/0432250.shtml?tid=158 -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From vacations at time-2-win.com Thu Jun 6 10:33:17 2002 From: vacations at time-2-win.com (Going Somewhere?) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 10:33:17 2002 -0700 Subject: Vacation Planning! Save up to 85% off airline tickets! Message-ID: <6593325.65816726@mailhost> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4828 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Thu Jun 6 08:47:24 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 10:47:24 -0500 Subject: Slashdot | D-VHS to Hit The Market This Week Message-ID: <3CFF840C.7BD4D811@ssz.com> http://slashdot.org/articles/02/06/06/0219237.shtml?tid=97 -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Thu Jun 6 08:48:51 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 10:48:51 -0500 Subject: Slashdot | 'Unbreakable Linux', a new distro? Message-ID: <3CFF8463.5424B90F@ssz.com> http://slashdot.org/articles/02/06/06/029258.shtml?tid=163 -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Thu Jun 6 08:51:54 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 10:51:54 -0500 Subject: The Register - Security through obsolecence... Message-ID: <3CFF851A.C5BDC458@ssz.com> Somebody needs to do their homework, Brian Aker is nowhere near first to come up with this one... http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/55/25608.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ichudov at Algebra.COM Thu Jun 6 09:22:50 2002 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 11:22:50 -0500 Subject: Making algebra.com Choate-free Message-ID: <20020606162250.GA6532@manifold.algebra.com> I am considering procmailing Jim Choate and ssz.com to /dev/null at algebra.com. That should only affect subscribers of algebra.com. I would like to hear your opinions. igor From gbroiles at parrhesia.com Thu Jun 6 11:51:57 2002 From: gbroiles at parrhesia.com (Greg Broiles) Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 11:51:57 -0700 Subject: Fwd: RE: Preliminary thoughts on Zero Knowledge's planned public offering Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020606115122.03dc6070@bivens.parrhesia.com> forwarded with permission - >From: "Stefan Brands" >To: >Subject: RE: Preliminary thoughts on Zero Knowledge's planned >public offering >Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 03:55:36 -0400 > >Hello Greg, > > >From: Greg Broiles > > ...I get the impression that even though Stefan Brands has left ZKS, > > they've retained an option to purchase one or more of his patents, > > that option expiring in August. > >It expired August of 2001; ZKS has no rights left to my technology. I >started a new company with several other people, Credentica, to pursue >commercialization of my technology. > > > ... Anyone want to bet the unnamed individual with the disputed >settlement is Brands? > >In fact, it is not. ZKS and I had an amicable split, things simply did >not work out the way we had both hoped and when August came we had >several talks and decided a friendly split was the best thing for both. >ZKS in fact even referred a couple of interested business parties to me >after I had gone my own way. > >Regards, >Stefan Brands -- Greg Broiles -- gbroiles at parrhesia.com -- PGP 0x26E4488c or 0x94245961 From morlockelloi at yahoo.com Thu Jun 6 12:25:04 2002 From: morlockelloi at yahoo.com (Morlock Elloi) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 12:25:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Degrees of Freedom vs. Hollywood Control Freaks In-Reply-To: <200206061554.g56FsR404574@mailserver2.hushmail.com> Message-ID: <20020606192504.25183.qmail@web13205.mail.yahoo.com> > The official (legal) resolutions for optical media are: > > 720 X 576 (480 NTSC). Used by most DVD. ... Physical number of lines is far from being the only measure of quality. Compression has a huge impact, and so do other digital artifacts. For instance, just take a look at the opening scenes (earth rising on the moon horizon) in Kubrick's 2001 on laserdisc and DVD. In DVD, the dark blue-black background consists of funny rectangles. There are also a lot of motion artefacts which give a certain "feel" do DVD image - but then, that may become fashionable, as valve amplifiers are again now or listening to dolby-recorded tapes without dolby players - some just like that boost in the high end. ===== end (of original message) Y-a*h*o-o (yes, they scan for this) spam follows: Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From schear at lvcm.com Thu Jun 6 12:57:50 2002 From: schear at lvcm.com (Steve Schear) Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 12:57:50 -0700 Subject: Degrees of Freedom vs. Hollywood Control Freaks In-Reply-To: <20020606192504.25183.qmail@web13205.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200206061554.g56FsR404574@mailserver2.hushmail.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020606124928.04336098@pop3.lvcm.com> At 12:25 PM 6/6/2002 -0700, Morlock Elloi wrote: > > The official (legal) resolutions for optical media are: > > > > 720 X 576 (480 NTSC). Used by most DVD. >... > >Physical number of lines is far from being the only measure of quality. > >Compression has a huge impact, and so do other digital artifacts. > >For instance, just take a look at the opening scenes (earth rising on the moon >horizon) in Kubrick's 2001 on laserdisc and DVD. In DVD, the dark blue-black >background consists of funny rectangles. > >There are also a lot of motion artefacts which give a certain "feel" do DVD >image - but then, that may become fashionable, as valve amplifiers are again >now or listening to dolby-recorded tapes without dolby players - some just >like >that boost in the high end. No doubt some transfers from film are better than others. Often these discrepancies are more a function of the budget, skill and care of the technician, the available working print and particular equipment and software used, than the target medium. However, all other things being equal, I agree with Tim: DVD is a superior medium to consumer video tape and Laser disk. steve From mv at cdc.gov Thu Jun 6 13:06:11 2002 From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret)) Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 13:06:11 -0700 Subject: Degrees of Freedom vs. Hollywood Control Freaks Message-ID: <3CFFC0B3.43FDF036@cdc.gov> At 12:25 PM 6/6/02 -0700, Morlock Elloi wrote: >There are also a lot of motion artefacts which give a certain "feel" do DVD >image - but then, that may become fashionable, as valve amplifiers are again ^^^^ Jeezum, how old *are* you? We haven't called vacuum tubes 'valves' for some time.. Must get tiresome carting around the Leyden jar condensers for your differential analyzer.. >now or listening to dolby-recorded tapes without dolby players - some just like >that boost in the high end. Yeah, old farts who've toasted the thin end of their cochleas... :-) From jenniferlindchburg291497 at aol.com Thu Jun 6 10:19:34 2002 From: jenniferlindchburg291497 at aol.com (jenniferlindchburg291497 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 13:19:34 -0400 Subject: discounted motgages 291497544 Message-ID: <200206062026.PAA05146@einstein.ssz.com> See what rates we can offer without even talking to an agent..EVER! We want to help you get lower payments, with no hassle http://www.requestedinfo.net/cgi-bin/best_rate_virtual.cgi?code=btbtLA 291497544 From eresrch at eskimo.com Thu Jun 6 13:27:40 2002 From: eresrch at eskimo.com (Mike Rosing) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 13:27:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Degrees of Freedom vs. Hollywood Control Freaks In-Reply-To: <3CFFC0B3.43FDF036@cdc.gov> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Jun 2002, Major Variola (ret) wrote: > Jeezum, how old *are* you? We haven't called vacuum tubes 'valves' for > some > time.. Must get tiresome carting around the Leyden jar condensers for > your differential > analyzer.. the Brits have been calling "tubes" "valves" forever. Just like a "hood" is a "bonnet". Has nothing to do with age. But you do lose the high end first usually :-) Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike From mv at cdc.gov Thu Jun 6 13:28:01 2002 From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret)) Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 13:28:01 -0700 Subject: I got your secure documents right here, bub Message-ID: <3CFFC5D1.BB558A3E@cdc.gov> On April 9, the City and County of Denver Vital Records Office was robbed of over 2,300 sheets of preprinted security paper that can be used to create birth and death certificates. In addition, the electronic seal machine that produces an embossed seal of the City and County of Denver was stolen. http://www.occ.treas.gov/ftp/alert/2002-5.txt From mv at cdc.gov Thu Jun 6 13:34:33 2002 From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret)) Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 13:34:33 -0700 Subject: Tech lay communication: "IDS", "Patch," "Legislativermin" (TEALE) Message-ID: <3CFFC759.121BC744@cdc.gov> Intercepted a live broadcast of a CA state board on privacy reviewing some breaching of a state comptroller's servers which manage state deductions. The "Teale Data Center" incident alluded to at http://www.privacy.ca.gov/stateemployee.htm and at the gnarly URL: http://www.ca.gov/state/govsite/gov_htmldisplay.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@1917707281.1023395486@@@@&BV_EngineID=cadceffmidlibemgcfkmchchi.0&sFilePath=%2fgovsite%2fpress_release%2f2002_05%2f20020531_PR02323_teale.html&sCatTitle=Press+Release&iOID=33866&sTitle=Press%2bRelease+++ One of the clueless legislativermin just couldn't understand how an IDS can tell that a system's been probed ("700,000 times a month") if it wasn't breached. And the hapless bureaucratechs failed to explain the simple explanation: that to probe, the system must be contacted via the network, and that contact is logged. Maybe they should have simply said "doorknob-checks" vs. "breakins". The same legislator had serious cognitive difficulty with the concept of a software patch. The more clueful failed to explain its like letting an author have another pass over a book. They can fix little things, or rip and replace chapters; the risk (and reason patches aren't instantly, blindly installed) being this can break the ways you've relied on the book. It was so tragic it was comic. ------- Give away the backplane, sell the blades From tcmay at got.net Thu Jun 6 13:42:14 2002 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 13:42:14 -0700 Subject: Degrees of Freedom vs. Hollywood Control Freaks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thursday, June 6, 2002, at 01:27 PM, Mike Rosing wrote: > On Thu, 6 Jun 2002, Major Variola (ret) wrote: > > the Brits have been calling "tubes" "valves" forever. Just like a > "hood" > is a "bonnet". Has nothing to do with age. > Interesting the way terms like give hints about etymology and cognates. Hood is to bonnet, in terms of clothing as well as cars, as trunk is to boot, as in booty. (Booty being a black slang term for ass; no doubt related to "trunk" as body part, as in "swim trunks.") The morphism between British English and American English gives rise to many interesting structures. Someone said something earlier about tube/valve amps giving a boost to the high end, for older, hearing-damaged rockers. I don't think the frequency response has evern been an issue...tube amps are said to have a "warmer" sound, and to have more odd harmonic distortion than transistor amps, but the frequency response of _any_ transistor or tube amp is vastly beyond what even high-end speakers and headphones can typically deliver. A modern solid state amp is essentially "flat" from 20 Hz to 20 KHz. (I haven't tested my hearing in a while, with my Test CDs, but when I do I use my Stax electrostatics or my Etymotics instead of my Mirage speakers. Last I checked, my hearing was rolling off at around 16-17 KHz.) --Tim May --Tim May "Gun Control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound" From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Thu Jun 6 11:57:42 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 13:57:42 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Austin Cypherpunks - Physical Meet - June 11, 2002 Message-ID: Time: June 11, 2002 Second Tuesday of each month 7:00 - 9:00 pm (or later) Location: Central Market HEB Cafe 38th and N. Lamar Weather permitting we meet in the un-covered tables. If it's inclimate but not overly cold we meet in the outside covered section. Otherwise look for us inside the building proper. Identification: Look for the group with the "Applied Cryptography" book. It will have a red cover and is about 2 in. thick. Contact Info: http://einstein.ssz.com/cdr/index.html#austincpunks -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From eresrch at eskimo.com Thu Jun 6 14:35:50 2002 From: eresrch at eskimo.com (Mike Rosing) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 14:35:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Degrees of Freedom vs. Hollywood Control Freaks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Jun 2002, Tim May wrote: > (Booty being a black slang term for ass; no doubt related to "trunk" as > body part, as in "swim trunks.") I always thought it came from pimp slang - booty being what you take as a pirate. My kids love to shake their booty, and have no idea of the history either :-) Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike From mv at cdc.gov Thu Jun 6 15:26:44 2002 From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret)) Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 15:26:44 -0700 Subject: Degrees of Freedom vs. Hollywood Control Freaks Message-ID: <3CFFE1A3.3DBB5249@cdc.gov> At 01:42 PM 6/6/02 -0700, Tim May wrote: >Someone said something earlier about tube/valve amps giving a boost to >the high end, for older, hearing-damaged rockers. Mr. Elloi wrote first about the fashion for "valve" audio amps and then mentioned that some yahoos listen with Dolby emphesis. I commented that the latter was for the old deaf. This is unrelated to the fashion for valves. I don't think the >frequency response has evern been an issue...tube amps are said to have >a "warmer" sound, and to have more odd harmonic distortion than >transistor amps, but the frequency response of _any_ transistor or tube >amp is vastly beyond what even high-end speakers and headphones can >typically deliver. > >A modern solid state amp is essentially "flat" from 20 Hz to 20 KHz. Yes, in the linear part of their operation. But its the *distortion* (large signal behavior) which differs ---tubes distort differently when "overdriven". I believe the difference when driven with a square wave is that tubes have a more RC-like output function, vs. a sharper (faster slew) transistor reproduction. One little known fact is that humans actually prefer a small amount of distortion in their listening. The THD of amps with a lot of decimal-zeroes, is a good technical spec (easily attainable, cheaply, nowadays), but is totally a marketing scam. First you can't hear the difference between .01 and .001 % THD, and second you prefer ~ .1% Now back to your regularly scheduled decay of civilization.. From profit4u18 at freenow.com Thu Jun 6 13:01:41 2002 From: profit4u18 at freenow.com (profit4u18 at freenow.com) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 16:01:41 -0400 Subject: 18 Message-ID: <200206070148.UAA08048@einstein.ssz.com> ************************************************************************************** This email message is sent in compliance with the 106th Congress E-Mail User Protection Act (H.R. 1910) and the Unsolicited Commercial Electronic Mail Act of 2000 (H.R. 3113). We provide a valid vehicle for you to be removed from our email list. To be removed from our mailing list, simply send an email to notaproblem at eudora.com with the subject "remove". ************************************************************************************** Free Business Opportunity Service We find "home-based-business opportunities for ambitious people on a 'no cost' basis. We are paid by our client companies to seek ambitious people such as yourself. We represent only the finest, most reputable companies that offer a lucrative commission as well as an opportunity to obtain residual income so necessary build wealth. If you've been searching and have come up with empty promises and companies of dubious reputation, then we need to talk. To obtain more information and start on your road to success and wealth email mailto:cajero03 at hotmail.com For an immediate reply leave your name and phone number, someone will call you within 24 hours. Name: Phone: Best time to call: Jimmy Powers Development Director Success Marketing REMOVAL BELOW ========================================== stopca001 at hotmail.com 18 From profit4u19 at freenow.com Thu Jun 6 13:01:51 2002 From: profit4u19 at freenow.com (profit4u19 at freenow.com) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 16:01:51 -0400 Subject: 19 Message-ID: <200206070148.UAA08052@einstein.ssz.com> ************************************************************************************** This email message is sent in compliance with the 106th Congress E-Mail User Protection Act (H.R. 1910) and the Unsolicited Commercial Electronic Mail Act of 2000 (H.R. 3113). We provide a valid vehicle for you to be removed from our email list. To be removed from our mailing list, simply send an email to notaproblem at eudora.com with the subject "remove". ************************************************************************************** Free Business Opportunity Service We find "home-based-business opportunities for ambitious people on a 'no cost' basis. We are paid by our client companies to seek ambitious people such as yourself. We represent only the finest, most reputable companies that offer a lucrative commission as well as an opportunity to obtain residual income so necessary build wealth. If you've been searching and have come up with empty promises and companies of dubious reputation, then we need to talk. To obtain more information and start on your road to success and wealth email mailto:cajero03 at hotmail.com For an immediate reply leave your name and phone number, someone will call you within 24 hours. Name: Phone: Best time to call: Jimmy Powers Development Director Success Marketing REMOVAL BELOW ========================================== stopca001 at hotmail.com 19 From scribe at exmosis.net Thu Jun 6 09:06:15 2002 From: scribe at exmosis.net (Graham Lally) Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 17:06:15 +0100 Subject: CNN.com - Bush to announce new intelligence agency - June 6, 2002 References: <3CFF7DB4.EE8A16C5@ssz.com> Message-ID: <3CFF8877.8090909@exmosis.net> Jim Choate wrote: > http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/06/06/bush.security/index.html "...Answering questions about the creation of the 'Department for Prevention of ThoughtCrime', Bush noted that this was 'clearly a step in the plusgood direction'..." From adam at cypherspace.org Thu Jun 6 09:12:42 2002 From: adam at cypherspace.org (Adam Back) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 17:12:42 +0100 Subject: overcoming ecash deployment problems (Re: all about transferable off-line ecash) In-Reply-To: <024501c20d66$d9725810$a36e9cd9@mark>; from mdpopescu@subdimension.com on Thu, Jun 06, 2002 at 05:31:28PM +0300 References: <20020411143750.A1630669@exeter.ac.uk> <024501c20d66$d9725810$a36e9cd9@mark> Message-ID: <20020606171242.A549642@exeter.ac.uk> I think you are assuming things about rational economic behavior when a money system is subject to high deflation. Consider during periods of high inflation people don't like holding money, as it devalues too fast. They will hold interest bearing deposits instead. During periods of high deflation, they will hold cash if it is the most attractive "investment". The result will be shortage of cash, for people who actually want to use it to make purchases because investors will buy all of it. Perhaps there are some government monetary systems in history which had this problem. For example gold with sudden shortage of gold supply, or similar. Adam On Thu, Jun 06, 2002 at 05:31:28PM +0300, Marcel Popescu wrote: > From: "Adam Back" > > > So this would be the argument for a closed supply of money in the > > system, like the digicash betabucks where they stated up from that > > they would only issue 1,000,000 betabucks. People trade them based on > > supply and demand. > > > > Perhaps. Though at the time Wei Dai had some arguments at the time > > that if they were popular, they would be a good investment and people > > would have an incentive to hold on to them which would make them > > difficult to obtain, highly inflationary, and hard to use. > > I have missed that one; however, it is wrong - if people hold them, then > they become MORE valuable, and thus you have high deflation - the purchasing > power of money grows - which is great. And if their value gets so big that > subdivisions start to become necessary, one can always convert them to "new > betabucks", each old one being worth a million new ones. End of problem. > > Mark From mdpopescu at subdimension.com Thu Jun 6 07:31:28 2002 From: mdpopescu at subdimension.com (Marcel Popescu) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 17:31:28 +0300 Subject: overcoming ecash deployment problems (Re: all about transferable off-line ecash) References: <20020411143750.A1630669@exeter.ac.uk> Message-ID: <024501c20d66$d9725810$a36e9cd9@mark> From: "Adam Back" > So this would be the argument for a closed supply of money in the > system, like the digicash betabucks where they stated up from that > they would only issue 1,000,000 betabucks. People trade them based on > supply and demand. > > Perhaps. Though at the time Wei Dai had some arguments at the time > that if they were popular, they would be a good investment and people > would have an incentive to hold on to them which would make them > difficult to obtain, highly inflationary, and hard to use. I have missed that one; however, it is wrong - if people hold them, then they become MORE valuable, and thus you have high deflation - the purchasing power of money grows - which is great. And if their value gets so big that subdivisions start to become necessary, one can always convert them to "new betabucks", each old one being worth a million new ones. End of problem. Mark From measl at mfn.org Thu Jun 6 15:33:33 2002 From: measl at mfn.org (measl at mfn.org) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 17:33:33 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Fw:cc: Customer Service - Ink was never received In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I guess that'll teach you not to do business with spammers, huh? Kiss that $34.98 goodbye, idjit... On Thu, 6 Jun 2002, Joseph SARGENTI wrote: > Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 17:39:15 -0400 > From: Joseph SARGENTI > Reply-To: cypherpunks at einstein.ssz.com > To: cypherpunks at einstein.ssz.com > Subject: CDR: Fw:cc: Customer Service - Ink was never received > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Joseph SARGENTI > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 5:31 PM > To: owner-cypherpunks at einstein.ssz.com > Subject: Customer Service - Ink was never received > > QuikSilver Enterprise Inc. > > On April 20, 2002 I sent a check in the amount of $34.98 to your company for 1 kit fill-Jet refill kit. The check was cashed on 4/29/02. We have never received the ink kit that your advertised through my e-mail box. Please check your records before I proceed to investigate through the Ohio Attorney Generals Office. The Check was cashed on Charter One Bank in Cleveland, Ohio. > Please send me the ink immediately to: > Joseph Sargenti > 6132 Stillwater Court > University Park, Florida 34201 > bettyjoey at msn.com > > Thank you > Joseph Sargenti > > -- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin at mfn.org If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... -------------------------------------------------------------------- From profit4u105322 at freenow.com Thu Jun 6 14:40:36 2002 From: profit4u105322 at freenow.com (profit4u105322 at freenow.com) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 17:40:36 -0400 Subject: 105322111110000 Message-ID: <200206062142.GAB00706@mail.sgi.ac.jp> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1497 bytes Desc: not available URL: From profit4u221175 at freenow.com Thu Jun 6 14:44:02 2002 From: profit4u221175 at freenow.com (profit4u221175 at freenow.com) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 17:44:02 -0400 Subject: 22117543322221111 Message-ID: <200206070149.UAA08119@einstein.ssz.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1499 bytes Desc: not available URL: From morlockelloi at yahoo.com Thu Jun 6 18:19:06 2002 From: morlockelloi at yahoo.com (Morlock Elloi) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 18:19:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Degrees of Freedom vs. Hollywood Control Freaks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020607011906.95457.qmail@web13206.mail.yahoo.com> > Someone said something earlier about tube/valve amps giving a boost to > the high end, for older, hearing-damaged rockers. I don't think the > frequency response has evern been an issue...tube amps are said to have What's happening with you, Tim ? Your short term memory malfunction gives a probable reason for search of the compound for THC carriers. The boosted high-end was mentioned in the context of dolby-recorded tapes played without dolby circuit on or not present at all. [and to another troller - music industry became well aware in 90-ties that their major consumers - teens - do playback dolby tapes without dolby, and got used to it, which made producers often boost high end in general, even when dolby became immaterial. It's funny that average spectral characteristics of music can give away it's age ] > a "warmer" sound, and to have more odd harmonic distortion than > transistor amps, but the frequency response of _any_ transistor or tube > amp is vastly beyond what even high-end speakers and headphones can > typically deliver. "Warmer" sound is particularly enhanced if the source is 1/4" Revox. ===== end (of original message) Y-a*h*o-o (yes, they scan for this) spam follows: Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From Offers at allbestcheapstuff.com Thu Jun 6 15:24:02 2002 From: Offers at allbestcheapstuff.com (Offers) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 18:24:02 -0400 Subject: Digital TV installed Free in 4 rooms Message-ID: <200206062227.RAA06431@einstein.ssz.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4306 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gsl at insurancemail.net Thu Jun 6 16:21:04 2002 From: gsl at insurancemail.net (IQ - GSL) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 19:21:04 -0400 Subject: Ground breaking post card creates annuity leads Message-ID: <8f9dd01c20db0$d470e990$3201a8c0@insuranceiq.com> Generate your own leads using ground-breaking Roth conversion postcards. _____ Every senior wants to hear about the roth conversion if you can eliminate the up front tax cost. You can with the new and improved roth conversion program from GSL Advisory. The cheapest and most successful way to generate roth conversion program leads is to send postcards while also placing an ad in the small local paper. Repeat the ads and the postcard mailing at least 6 different times. The one truth in advertising is that repetition works. Even the smallest and most unassuming ad works if it is seen several times. 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Instead, go here: http://www.Insurancemail.net Legal Notice -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 5404 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mdpopescu at subdimension.com Thu Jun 6 09:54:17 2002 From: mdpopescu at subdimension.com (Marcel Popescu) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 19:54:17 +0300 Subject: overcoming ecash deployment problems (Re: all about transferable off-line ecash) References: <20020411143750.A1630669@exeter.ac.uk> <024501c20d66$d9725810$a36e9cd9@mark> <20020606171242.A549642@exeter.ac.uk> Message-ID: <027c01c20d7a$ccd1d4f0$a36e9cd9@mark> From: "Adam Back" > Consider during periods of high inflation people don't like holding > money, as it devalues too fast. They will hold interest bearing > deposits instead. Agreed. > During periods of high deflation, they will hold cash if it is the > most attractive "investment". The result will be shortage of cash, > for people who actually want to use it to make purchases because > investors will buy all of it. Right. And a shortage of anything, cash making no exception, is solved automatically (if the market is left alone). The value of a monetary unit will rise until its price will be considered (by the cash holders) high enough - that is, until they will value something else more than the cash. Shortages are NEVER a problem if the market is left alone to clear it - they simply indicate an undervaluation of the commodity. > Perhaps there are some government monetary systems in history which > had this problem. For example gold with sudden shortage of gold > supply, or similar. Once you put the gov't into the equation, all bets are off :) Mark From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Thu Jun 6 18:04:18 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 20:04:18 -0500 (CDT) Subject: ASL: MSNBC News Link: Remembering the heroes of D-Day (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 16:23:06 -0700 From: bblad at insight.com To: ADVANCED-SL at multimanpublishing.com Subject: ASL: MSNBC News Link: Remembering the heroes of D-Day A fitting tribute sent you this MSNBC News Link: Message: Thanks to all the men and women who served and participated in the liberation of Europe in 1944 ** Remembering the heroes of D-Day ** At the nerve center of the Allied invasion of Nazi-occupied France, veterans on Thursday marked 58 years after "the invasion by the enemies of freedom." MSNBC.coms Dan Strieff reports. http://www.msnbc.com/modules/exports/ct_email.asp?/news/762694.asp ______________________________________________________________________ Check out the hour's top stories on MSNBC.com MSNBC does not confirm the E-mail address of the sender of this MSNBC News Link. For your information, the sender's IP Address is: 198.187.200.254 From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Thu Jun 6 18:12:01 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 20:12:01 -0500 Subject: Slashdot | The Music Biz Is the New Book Industry (The future of the music biz is bleak...) Message-ID: <3D000861.A257ED9F@ssz.com> http://slashdot.org/articles/02/06/06/211229.shtml?tid=141 -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From bpayne37 at comcast.net Thu Jun 6 19:26:35 2002 From: bpayne37 at comcast.net (bpayne37 at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 20:26:35 -0600 Subject: New Mexico lawsuit progress Message-ID: <3D0019D9.D6365766@comcast.net> Guy We need some help http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/8327/ best http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/8327/#nukeblast From marketing at scnyc.com Thu Jun 6 17:33:45 2002 From: marketing at scnyc.com (The Training Letter) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 20:33:45 -0400 Subject: The Training Letter June 7, 2002 13642 Message-ID: The Training Letter Getting the Most From Your Relationship with a Contingency Search Firm by Bob Marshall, Recruitment Educator Like any successful relationship with a consultant, working with a contingency recruiter will be more productive when each party understands how the other works. When choosing a recruiter, look for someone with a proven track record within your industry. This person will possess qualities such as intelligence, creativity, honesty, persistence, organizational skills and a sense of corporate maturity. They should also be good listeners and have an innate ability to "read" people. When to call a recruiter? ( click here ) The Value of Realistic Performance Standards by Terry Petra Realistic performance standards provide both management and staff with a critically important measuring tool. Without this tool, managers cannot effectively direct and support the efforts of their staff and the staff cannot effectively manage their time and resources. ( Click here ) for the formulas Slump bloopers and blunders of staffing firms by Tom Hand Slow growth is not a decline in market size. The dollars are still there and some staffing company, somewhere, is receiving them. Our economy has endured a "recession" about once a decade for the last two hundred years. The best firms use old techniques to prosper in a slow growth scenario. ( click here ) Using your Summer/Vacation recruiting "downtime" wisely By W.J. Boczany, principal Generally, candidates and clients are busy with vacation planning and other distractions and often the hiring process takes a back seat to these lighter hearted events. Although we all need to share in the holiday spirit, it is important that we use our holiday down time wisely. While our access to candidates and clients may be difficult there still are a lot of things that we can do to prepare for vacation time. Here are just a few ( click here ) To unsubscribe ( click here ) Customer service 973-691-2000 Copyright Recruiter.com 2002 The contingency Training Portal Business Development Job Order Qualifying Finding Candidates Qualifying Candidates Closing Staying Focused ( Click here ) Recruiters Week week of 6.03.02 Productivity and Marketing 6.05.02 www.recruiter.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 6711 bytes Desc: not available URL: From marketing at scnyc.com Thu Jun 6 17:33:46 2002 From: marketing at scnyc.com (The Training Letter) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 20:33:46 -0400 Subject: The Training Letter June 7, 2002 13644 Message-ID: The Training Letter Getting the Most From Your Relationship with a Contingency Search Firm by Bob Marshall, Recruitment Educator Like any successful relationship with a consultant, working with a contingency recruiter will be more productive when each party understands how the other works. When choosing a recruiter, look for someone with a proven track record within your industry. This person will possess qualities such as intelligence, creativity, honesty, persistence, organizational skills and a sense of corporate maturity. They should also be good listeners and have an innate ability to "read" people. When to call a recruiter? ( click here ) The Value of Realistic Performance Standards by Terry Petra Realistic performance standards provide both management and staff with a critically important measuring tool. Without this tool, managers cannot effectively direct and support the efforts of their staff and the staff cannot effectively manage their time and resources. ( Click here ) for the formulas Slump bloopers and blunders of staffing firms by Tom Hand Slow growth is not a decline in market size. The dollars are still there and some staffing company, somewhere, is receiving them. Our economy has endured a "recession" about once a decade for the last two hundred years. The best firms use old techniques to prosper in a slow growth scenario. ( click here ) Using your Summer/Vacation recruiting "downtime" wisely By W.J. Boczany, principal Generally, candidates and clients are busy with vacation planning and other distractions and often the hiring process takes a back seat to these lighter hearted events. Although we all need to share in the holiday spirit, it is important that we use our holiday down time wisely. While our access to candidates and clients may be difficult there still are a lot of things that we can do to prepare for vacation time. Here are just a few ( click here ) To unsubscribe ( click here ) Customer service 973-691-2000 Copyright Recruiter.com 2002 The contingency Training Portal Business Development Job Order Qualifying Finding Candidates Qualifying Candidates Closing Staying Focused ( Click here ) Recruiters Week week of 6.03.02 Productivity and Marketing 6.05.02 www.recruiter.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 6711 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bounce10 at aptarltd.com Fri Jun 7 00:37:47 2002 From: bounce10 at aptarltd.com (Abigail) Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 23:37:47 -0800 Subject: My email address, in case you lost it. Message-ID: <08TD1Q87737C2DRYCT.TDY42GKA5C3Q0N.Abigail > Hi Honey Pie! I missed you! Where have you been? I thought you would like to know I have a bunch of pictures of the girls at my school getting naked!! I set up my very own LOCKER ROOM CAM; You won't believe the shots I got! >> Dildo pictures of experimental young things finding their 'hot-spots' for the 1st time! >> Tons of titties from tiny to massive占� I never knew nipples could range from button sized to hubcaps!! WHAT A TREAT! >> Close-up pussy shots of bent, spread cheerleaders getting it on with each other占� I will send them to you soon! As always, I'll be thinking of you! ~~> XOXO Heather To remove yourself from this list, and never receive these locker cam pics, please reply to this email with the subject remove. [remove:cypherpunks--algebra.com] From MAILER-DAEMON at mail.hal-pc.org Thu Jun 6 23:52:52 2002 From: MAILER-DAEMON at mail.hal-pc.org (MAILER-DAEMON at mail.hal-pc.org) Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 01:52:52 -0500 Subject: cypherpunks,Increase your breast size. 100% natural! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The domain home.com no longer accepts email. If you are trying to email someone with an @home.com email address you should contact them by other means to get their new email address. --- From elitecs at tds.net Thu Jun 6 23:08:10 2002 From: elitecs at tds.net (Elite Creative Studios) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 02:08:10 -0400 Subject: Affordable Advertising Message-ID: <200206070607.g5767fho003565@ak47.algebra.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 6727 bytes Desc: not available URL: From targetemailextractor at btamail.net.cn Thu Jun 6 12:33:59 2002 From: targetemailextractor at btamail.net.cn (targetemailextractor at btamail.net.cn) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 03:33:59 +0800 Subject: ADV: Direct Email Blaster, email addresses extractor,maillist verify, maillist manager ........... Message-ID: <200206061939.OAA04632@einstein.ssz.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 10947 bytes Desc: not available URL: From targetemailextractor at btamail.net.cn Thu Jun 6 12:34:04 2002 From: targetemailextractor at btamail.net.cn (targetemailextractor at btamail.net.cn) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 03:34:04 +0800 Subject: ADV: Direct Email Blaster, email addresses extractor,maillist verify, maillist manager ........... Message-ID: <200206061939.OAA04633@einstein.ssz.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 10947 bytes Desc: not available URL: From alan at beyondgourmet.com Fri Jun 7 04:35:02 2002 From: alan at beyondgourmet.com (Alan Canas) Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 04:35:02 -0700 Subject: Fathers Day - It's Not to Late! Message-ID: <20020607113708Z399204-28686+2258@thor.valueweb.net> BeyondGourmet.com AVOID LAST MINUTE EXPRESS SHIPPING FEES AND TAKE ADVANTAGE OF OUR FREE GROUND SHIPPING Prefer to Order by Phone? Call Toll-Free (877) 999-4940 Sports Gift Box Barbecue Fun Gift Pack Fish Creel Gift Basket Puzzled With Trying to Figure Out What to Give Dad For Father's Day? The "Missing Piece" Can Be Found At Beyond Gourmet Using Their NEW Gift Finding Tool! Choose From One of The Following: Gifts For Dad's Of All Ages Gifts For Dad's: Ages 29 & Under Gifts For Dad's: Ages 30 to 49 Gifts For Dad's: Ages 50 & Up Gifts For Dad's From "The Little Ones" OR Give Beyond Gourmet's "NEW" Interactive Tool A Try! Ask ED Gourmet! 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Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 22421 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jya at pipeline.com Fri Jun 7 09:26:45 2002 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 09:26:45 -0700 Subject: Militants Are All-American Osamas Message-ID: http://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/07/opinion/07KRIS.html The New York Times, June 7, 2002 All-American Osamas Nicholas Kristof [Excerpt] Militia members and Al Qaeda members are remarkably similar. Both are galvanized by religious extremism (America's militias overlap with the Christian Identity movement, which preaches that Jews are the children of Satan and that people of color are sub-human), both see the United States government as utterly evil, and both are empowered by the information revolution that enables them to create networks, recruit disciples and trade recipes for bio- and chemical weapons. It would be a mistake to put one's faith in the militias' eternal incompetence. Jessica Stern of Harvard has written about an anti-government activist named James Dalton Bell, who earned a degree in chemistry from M.I.T. and is unquestionably brilliant. By age 14, he says, "I was studying the isomerization of benzyl thiocyanate to the isocyanate." Weren't we all? But Mr. Bell, who is now in jail, is also believed by the authorities to have manufactured sarin, a nerve gas, in his basement. He led a chemical attack against an I.R.S. office and wrote an Internet book called "Assassination Politics," which outlines a very clever scheme to pay for contract killings of federal officials with digital cash in a way that preserves anonymity at both ends. There is also evidence that Mr. Bell talked "hypothetically" of poisoning a city's water supply. ----- From ptrei at rsasecurity.com Fri Jun 7 07:54:55 2002 From: ptrei at rsasecurity.com (Trei, Peter) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 10:54:55 -0400 Subject: Degrees of Freedom vs. Hollywood Control Freaks Message-ID: > ---------- > From: Mike Rosing[SMTP:eresrch at eskimo.com] > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 5:35 PM > To: cypherpunks at lne.com > Subject: Re: Degrees of Freedom vs. Hollywood Control Freaks > > On Thu, 6 Jun 2002, Tim May wrote: > > > (Booty being a black slang term for ass; no doubt related to "trunk" as > > body part, as in "swim trunks.") > > I always thought it came from pimp slang - booty being what you > take as a pirate. My kids love to shake their booty, and have no idea > of the history either :-) > > Patience, persistence, truth, > Dr. mike > There are doubtless etymologists who could answer this definitively. I don't have aceess to the OED online, which could at least give us info on how far back it goes. The question on hand is the origin of boot (British) vs trunk (American) for the storage at the rear of a sedan car. I really, really don't think either Tim or Mike are on the right track. American pimp slang is very unlikely to have affected British motoring jargon. Instead, I suggest the both 'boot' and 'booty' may come from a much older English usage of 'butt' to refer the the rear end of something - whether a person (buttocks), or the end of a spear or a cigarette (butt). Many horse-drawn coaches (and some early automobiles) had a luggage style trunk strapped on the back for storage. Thiis seems a source for the American 'trunk', and also give an alternative route to 'boot'. Many early automobile terms are from the French (chauffeur, carburetor ), and the French term for 'box' is 'boite', which could easily migrate in British English to 'boot'. Peter Trei From jlittler at mstation.org Fri Jun 7 06:57:06 2002 From: jlittler at mstation.org (John Littler) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 13:57:06 +0000 Subject: Degrees of Freedom vs. Hollywood Control Freaks In-Reply-To: <20020607011906.95457.qmail@web13206.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <73AC9FE0-7A1E-11D6-AA48-0050E4C5F665@mstation.org> On Friday, June 7, 2002, at 01:19 AM, Morlock Elloi wrote: > [x] > "Warmer" sound is particularly enhanced if the source is 1/4" Revox. > all tape machines have kinder, fluffier, even order distortion. A well maintained revox should have less than most. Cheers From kevin272 at Flashmail.com Thu Jun 6 23:44:59 2002 From: kevin272 at Flashmail.com (Shantanro Gyotoku) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 14:44:59 +0800 Subject: cypherpunks,Increase your breast size. 100% natural! Message-ID: ================================= Guaranteed to increase, lift and firm your breasts in 60 days or your money back!! 100% herbal and natural. Proven formula since 1996. Increase your bust by 1 to 3 sizes within 30-60 days and be all natural. Click here: http://218.7.157.206:100 Absolutely no side effects! Be more self confident! Be more comfortable in bed! No more need for a lift or support bra! 100% GUARANTEED AND FROM A NAME YOU KNOW AND TRUST! ************************************************** You are receiving this email as a double opt-in subscriber to the Standard Affiliates Mailing List. To remove yourself from all related email lists, just click here: http://218.7.157.206:100/unsubscriber.asp?userid=cypherpunks at einstein.ssz.com From carkenbe at adobe.com Fri Jun 7 15:00:03 2002 From: carkenbe at adobe.com (chris arkenberg) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 15:00:03 -0700 Subject: NYT: Jim Bell = Osama bin Laden In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >"The good thing is that most of the people who would do it are so stupid >that they would kill themselves first," said Sheriff Dupont Heh, no shit! LOL. From pashley at storm.ca Fri Jun 7 12:36:27 2002 From: pashley at storm.ca (Sandy Harris) Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 15:36:27 -0400 Subject: number of bits in bent funtion Message-ID: <3D010B3B.95AD44C0@storm.ca> Is there a general rule for the number of set bits in a bent boolean function of n input bits? I know from the Mister and Adams paper at SAC 96: http://adonis.ee.queensu.ca:8000/sac/sac96/papers.html that any 8-bit bent function has either 120 or 136 bits set. That's (2^8)/2 +- 8. Does that generalise to (2^n)/2 +- n for any even n? Or is there some other general rule? From rah at shipwright.com Fri Jun 7 14:42:41 2002 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 17:42:41 -0400 Subject: NYT: Jim Bell = Osama bin Laden Message-ID: http://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/07/opinion/07KRIS.html?pagewanted=print&position=top June 7, 2002 All-American Osamas By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF KALISPELL, Mont. We Americans have conjured so specific a vision of terrorists - swarthy, glowering Muslims mumbling fanatically about Allah - that we're missing the threat from home-grown nuts, people like David Burgert. Mr. Burgert, a 38-year-old who last made a living renting out snowmobiles here in this spectacularly beautiful nook of northwestern Montana, had a terror plan that made Osama bin Laden's look rinky-dink. Not content merely to kill a few thousand people, Mr. Burgert's nine-member militia was planning a violent revolution and civil war to overthrow the entire United States government. The plan, according to Sheriff James Dupont, was for the militia to use its machine guns, pipe bombs and 30,000 rounds of ammunition to assassinate 26 local officials (including Mr. Dupont), and then wipe out the National Guard when it arrived. After the panicked authorities sent in NATO troops, true American patriots would rise up, a ferocious war would ensue, and the U.S. would end up back in the hands of white Christians. "The good thing is that most of the people who would do it are so stupid that they would kill themselves first," said Sheriff Dupont, who runs the law here in rugged Flathead County, which is bigger than all of Connecticut and has lots more grizzly bears. But the litany of domestic militia plots, failed ones, is still sobering. In Michigan, militia members planned to bomb two federal buildings. Missourians planned to attack American military bases, starting with Fort Hood, Tex., on a day it opened to tens of thousands of visitors. California militia members planned to blow up a propane storage facility. Most unnerving, a Florida militia plotted to destroy a nuclear power plant. If these were Muslims who were forming militias and exchanging tips for making nerve gas, then we'd toss them in prison in an instant. But we're distracted by our own stereotypes, searching for Muslim terrorists in the Philippine jungle and the Detroit suburbs and forgetting that there are blond, blue-eyed mad bombers as well. We're making precisely the mistake that the Saudis did a few years ago: dismissing familiar violent fanatics as kooks. In fact, militia members and Al Qaeda members are remarkably similar. Both are galvanized by religious extremism (America's militias overlap with the Christian Identity movement, which preaches that Jews are the children of Satan and that people of color are sub-human), both see the United States government as utterly evil, and both are empowered by the information revolution that enables them to create networks, recruit disciples and trade recipes for bio- and chemical weapons. It would be a mistake to put one's faith in the militias' eternal incompetence. Jessica Stern of Harvard has written about an anti-government activist named James Dalton Bell, who earned a degree in chemistry from M.I.T. and is unquestionably brilliant. By age 14, he says, "I was studying the isomerization of benzyl thiocyanate to the isocyanate." Weren't we all? But Mr. Bell, who is now in jail, is also believed by the authorities to have manufactured sarin, a nerve gas, in his basement. He led a chemical attack against an I.R.S. office and wrote an Internet book called "Assassination Politics," which outlines a very clever scheme to pay for contract killings of federal officials with digital cash in a way that preserves anonymity at both ends. There is also evidence that Mr. Bell talked "hypothetically" of poisoning a city's water supply. The things you learn in Montana: According to militia members here, the World Trade Center attacks were a plot by the Feds to declare an emergency and abolish the Bill of Rights; the Columbine school shootings were a federal test of new mind-control technology; a map on a Kix cereal box shows the occupation zones Americans will be herded into after the United Nations takes over. Another thing you learn here is how to deal with grizzlies. Don't be so focused on a distant moose that you ignore the bear behind you. And if it charges, stand your ground until it's 10 feet away, then shoot pepper spray into its eyes, and - very quickly - step aside. Right now, I'm afraid that the Bush administration is so focused on the distant moose that we're oblivious to the local grizzlies like Dave Burgert creeping up on us. Copyright 2002 The New York Times Company | Permissions | Privacy Policy -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From ns at insurancemail.net Fri Jun 7 15:12:21 2002 From: ns at insurancemail.net (IQ - Net Study) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 18:12:21 -0400 Subject: All CE Courses $39.95! Message-ID: <6128f601c20e70$64d03d50$6701a8c0@insuranceiq.com> InsuranceStudy.com CE Without Boundaries! All Courses $39.95 Our Summer Giveaway - A Trip to Hawaii or Free CE For a Year! Convenience CE without Boundaries! Eliminate the hassle to conventional CE alternatives, no classes, no travel, and no books! CE on your time schedule. Value InsuranceStudy courses are written for insurance professionals by insurance professionals, in language and course style easy to understand. Ease of Use Pace yourself through one of the easiest designed web sites for CE! Automatic bookmarking of your course allows you to come and go as you please. We remember where you left off. CE Tracking InsuranceStudy database keeps your course history in our CE tracker! And you can add CE credits from other courses you have taken outside of the Internet. Immediate Results Your exam score is immediately passed on to you at the end of the test, and our customer service department quickly mails you a certificate and notifies your state where required to do so. Click here to visit www.InsuranceStudy.com Call or e-mail us today! 888-896-0491 ? or ? Please fill out the form below for more information Name: E-mail: Phone: City: State: First time users are eligible for our Summer Giveaway after registering as a new member on our site and opening a course. Returning members are eligible after they open up a new course. There is no obligation to pay for any course until the user is ready to take a test. Members must have preexisting Internet service from a service provider to qualify. We don't want anyone to receiving our mailings who does not wish to receive them. This is a professional communication sent to insurance professionals. To be removed from this mailing list, DO NOT REPLY to this message. Instead, go here: http://www.Insurancemail.net Legal Notice -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 9439 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wmo at rebma.pro-ns.net Fri Jun 7 16:45:03 2002 From: wmo at rebma.pro-ns.net (Bill O'Hanlon) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 18:45:03 -0500 Subject: NYT: Jim Bell = Osama bin Laden In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020607234503.GA38441@rebma.pro-ns.net> On Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 05:42:41PM -0400, R. A. Hettinga wrote: > > > Another thing you learn here is how to deal with grizzlies. Don't be so > focused on a distant moose that you ignore the bear behind you. And if it > charges, stand your ground until it's 10 feet away, then shoot pepper spray > into its eyes, and - very quickly - step aside. > From jason at lunkwill.org Fri Jun 7 13:07:50 2002 From: jason at lunkwill.org (Jason Holt) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 20:07:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: More of Ben's blinding Message-ID: > But actually another solution is much simpler, which is to do blinding > as just h * g^b, without a y factor. That works fine as long as the > bank is known not to be misbehaving. Ben's paper shows how the bank > can use a ZK proof to show that it is raising to the same power k every > time, basically again that same ZK proof regarding discrete logarithms. > If the bank uses such a proof then you can use simpler blinding without > a y factor, and you can recover the signature on the product of your h > values by dividing by g^k^(sum of b's). Somewhere I got the idea that that was patented, but looking at undeniable signatures, they're actually much closer to (h^y)(g^b), so your suggestion should work great. Thanks! Anybody know of other patents which might get in the way? I'm worried about Chaum's blind signature and undeniable signature patents, and want to present as patent-free a system as possible. One more thing. If the issuer returns the signature: (h1*g^b1 *h2*g^b2 *h3*g^b3...)^k Can I separate out any of the h^k values? My system relies on that being hard. If I replace h1 with (g^b0) and get the issuer to sign: ((g^b0)*g^b1 *h2*g^b2 *h3*g^b3...)^k I should be able to divide the two results and get h1^k. But part of the cut-and-choose protocol will be to require that the n/2 checked documents are all valid and different from any previous instances of the protocol. So it should be extremely hard for the user to sneak lots of previously used values and fake h's (which are really blinding factors) into the unrevealed documents. But are there other ways to separate out signatures on individual h's? -J From marylife115 at hotmail.com Fri Jun 7 20:34:14 2002 From: marylife115 at hotmail.com (Mary Life) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 20:34:14 Subject: 2000 Year old bread recipe actually helps you lose weight! Message-ID: <200206071145.GAA10856@einstein.ssz.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 973 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rsw at jfet.org Fri Jun 7 19:08:50 2002 From: rsw at jfet.org (Riad S. Wahby) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 22:08:50 -0400 Subject: Degrees of Freedom vs. Hollywood Control Freaks In-Reply-To: <3CFFE1A3.3DBB5249@cdc.gov>; from mv@cdc.gov on Thu, Jun 06, 2002 at 03:26:44PM -0700 References: <3CFFE1A3.3DBB5249@cdc.gov> Message-ID: <20020607220850.B26899@positron.mit.edu> "Major Variola (ret)" wrote: > Yes, in the linear part of their operation. But its the > *distortion* (large signal behavior) which differs ---tubes distort > differently when "overdriven". I believe the difference when driven > with a square wave is that tubes have a more RC-like output > function, vs. a sharper (faster slew) transistor reproduction. It's true that tubes distort differently, but not for the reason you claim. If you compare the transfer characteristics (Vce vs Ic with Vbe as a parameter) of a tube to those of a transistor, you see that (using BJT terminology) the transistor passes through saturation and reaches linear operation at a relatively low Vce (triode/linear, saturation, and Vds respectively, for you FETholes). On the other hand, the tube does not saturate quickly in this way. If you draw a load line over these transfer characteristics and grind through the math (or have Matlab do the work), you'll see that BJTs and FETs produce mostly odd-order harmonic distortion, whereas tubes produce more even-order harmonic distortion. The audible difference in this distortion is consistent with empirical results from acoustic musical instruments: violins (and other stringed acoustic instruments), which produce mostly even-order harmonics, have a drastically different timbre from, say, a clarinet, which produces mostly odd-order harmonics. > One little known fact is that humans actually prefer a small amount > of distortion in their listening. The THD of amps with a lot of > decimal-zeroes, is a good technical spec (easily attainable, > cheaply, nowadays), but is totally a marketing scam. First you > can't hear the difference between .01 and .001 % THD, and second you > prefer ~ .1% While I'm sure you're right that most people can't tell the difference between .01% and .001%, I'm not sure I believe that _everyone_ likes distortion (or, if they do, that everyone likes distortion of the same kind or level.) It seems that when you _re_produce a recording you may as well do so with as much fidelity as possible, leaving it to the artist to introduce whatever distortion they intend when they record it. When I listen to Ormandy and Philadelphia perform Mahler 2 I want the utmost fidelity; at the same time, I don't complain about the distortion in the recording when I listen to the Smashing Pumpkins's latest album. -- Riad Wahby rsw at jfet.org MIT VI-2/A 2002 From Promotions at usairways.com Fri Jun 7 21:00:00 2002 From: Promotions at usairways.com (Promotions at usairways.com) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 23:00:00 -0500 Subject: Look, Book and Save -- Even Faster -- @ usairways.com! Message-ID: <200206080420.g584Kr95011769@ak47.algebra.com> Dear usairways.com Customer, Look, Book and Save -- Even Faster -- @ usairways.com! 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Please allow three weeks after travel is complete for miles to be posted. This offer does not apply to tickets purchased through US Airways Vacations online or E-Savers fares. Travel must be completed by December 31, 2002. All Dividend Miles terms and conditions apply. This is a post-only mailing sent to CYPHERPUNKS at ALGEBRA.COM. Please do not respond to this message. From nobody at remailer.privacy.at Fri Jun 7 14:13:04 2002 From: nobody at remailer.privacy.at (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 23:13:04 +0200 (CEST) Subject: More of Ben's blinding Message-ID: <3237e2f0ce2ea82501bc7be4823af71c@remailer.privacy.at> Jason Holt writes: > Anybody know of other patents which might get in the way? I'm worried > about Chaum's blind signature and undeniable signature patents, and want to > present as patent-free a system as possible. There was extensive discussion on coderpunks about possible patent implications of Wagner blinding. Using the g^b blinding makes things potentially a little worse, because it requires the server to publish g and g^k. This can be considered a public key, and brings the situation closer to the blind signature patent. Wagner blinding can be thought of as a blinded undeniable signature. It is like a blind signature in that the server doesn't see what it is "signing". And it is like an undeniable signature in that the validity can only be checked with the aid of the server. It seems likely that Wagner could have patented his blinding along these lines if he had wanted to. So the problem is, if this is a blind + undeniable signature, doesn't that suggest that it infringes on both the blind and the undeniable signature patents? To answer this you have to look at the claims in detail. You can differentiate from the undeniable signature patent in that there is no repudiation protocol in the ecash system - no way for the server to prove that a purportedly signed value is actually bad. (Of course this lack is a weakness in an ecash system, since the bank might like to be able to prove that bogus cash is just that; but if it were remedied then Wagner blinding would almost certainly infringe the undeniable signature patent.) Differentiation from the blind signature patent is done simply by asserting that this is not a signature. That's why we are always careful to put "sign" into quotes when referring to server operations. It's not a signature because there is no way to independently verify it, which one can argue is a de facto requirement for something to be considered a signature. But of course, by this definition the undeniable signature is not a signature either. Yet we call it a kind of signature. If the undeniable signature is a signature, then so is the Wagner blinding, and so it is covered by the blind signature patent. As you can see, the situation is murky. One salvation is that the blind signature patent will expire in about 3 years, and it is unlikely that you will be successful enough in any project that it would be worthwhile to sue you within that time frame. Besides, everyone who takes control of the blind sig patent soon goes broke, so they probably can't afford a lawyer to sue you anyway. You should be aware too that there are a number of credential patents, which you can find by searching on the word credential. > One more thing. If the issuer returns the signature: > > (h1*g^b1 *h2*g^b2 *h3*g^b3...)^k > > Can I separate out any of the h^k values? My system relies on that > being hard. Seems safe by the DDH assumption, which is that it is hard to recognize that (g, g^a, g^b, g^ab) have the DH relationship. If we let m = g^b then this is (g, g^a, m, m^a). In other words, we can't tell whether two different values g and m are both being raised to the same power. In your case, you know h1, h2, (h1h2)^k. If you could then find h1^k, you could construct a DDH tuple (h1, h1^k, h1h2, (h1h2)^k), so you could violate the DDH assumption. This is a little hand-wavy and only deals with the two element case, but an argument along these lines will probably work. > If I replace h1 with (g^b0) and get the issuer to sign: > > ((g^b0)*g^b1 *h2*g^b2 *h3*g^b3...)^k > > I should be able to divide the two results and get h1^k. But part of > the cut-and-choose protocol will be to require that the n/2 checked documents > are all valid and different from any previous instances of the protocol. So > it should be extremely hard for the user to sneak lots of previously used > values and fake h's (which are really blinding factors) into the unrevealed > documents. But are there other ways to separate out signatures on individual > h's? You're really going to remember all the discarded h values from all the previous instances of credential issuing? Seems like it might be a lot of data. How many h values do you typically expect? Maybe you could say more about the details of your credential system. Such a system built on Wagner blinding might be very interesting. From deandram at hotmail.com Sat Jun 8 11:16:34 2002 From: deandram at hotmail.com (deandram at hotmail.com) Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2002 02:16:34 -1600 Subject: Add a little spice to your life!6028 Message-ID: <00007c5a67e6$000014a5$00001adf@foodesign.com> Hey, If you're like me, you've tried EVERYTHING to make those moments with your husband/wife, boyfriend/girlfriend as special as possible. The romantic candelight dinners, nights out on the town, catching the latest opera or whatever else. All this to help make those moments in bed all the more exciting.혻 I know what it's like - I had tried everything to make me and my wife's sex better. It seemed like there had to be a cheaper and easier way to make SEX more exciting ALL OF THE TIME!!! .. That was before I tried Vigoral Herbal Sex Enhancers! 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To ensure that you do not receive further email from us and wish to be removed from our list, please send us an e-mail: mailto:qatesters at macinfo.net?subject=Remove..cypherpunks at einstein.ssz.com mailto:qatesters at 163.com?subject=Remove..cypherpunks at einstein.ssz.com From mv at cdc.gov Sat Jun 8 07:16:27 2002 From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret)) Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2002 07:16:27 -0700 Subject: PGP and Speak Freely (fwd) Message-ID: <3D0211BB.FF2D4B06@cdc.gov> [stuff y'all knew but for the record] Basically the authors of the below post find that Speak Freely's reliance on out-of-band symmetric key exchange is solved with PGP email. PGPfone does this for you over the same channel --using the mathemiracle of public-key crypto. Since you're both necessarily online, it can and does use Diffie-Hellman instead of RSA. It does not save the negotiated key pair so if no endpoint is taping, the conversation is lost to the wind. Speak Freely is a nice piece of work, however compared to PGPfone it 1. requires OOB key exchange 2. isn't supported on Macs FWIW. I don't recall if SF works both ways, but PGPfone supports both IP and direct modem to modem links. (Just for completeness, anyone researching the field should evaluate Nautilus too.) At 12:25 PM 6/8/02 +0200, Eugen Leitl wrote: >Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2002 03:42:12 -0500 >From: "Benjamin T. Moore, Jr." >To: ed at kapitein.net, speak-freely at fourmilab.ch >Subject: RE: PGP and Speak Freely > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 > >Ok, let me see if I can maybe clarify what the issue is... Speak Freely >offers the ability to encrypt your voice conversations in real time. If you >have the "Crypto capable" version, when you've made a connection to >someone, you both can enter an agreed upon key and your conversation will >be secure from that point forward. This of course creates several problems. >If someone is listening in, monitoring your conversation/traffic or packet >sniffing, if for instance, you were to say in the conversation, lets use >the word "monkey" for an IDEA key and you both typed in the word "monkey," >your conversation would be encrypted using "monkey" as an IDEA key. The >problem of course is, if someone is monitoring your conversation, they'd of >heard you agree upon a key and they'd simply enter in the same key and >continue to monitor. > >Thus, you need a method of securely exchanging either an agreed upon key or >a generated key - Speak Freely will generate keys that you may copy and >paste into any of the various windows for the various encryption >algorithms. PGP, Pretty Good Privacy, is one damn good method of securely >exchanging those keys. You may of course e-mail the key in an encrypted >e-mail or file to the intended recipients or you could even send the >encrypted file using several of the Instant Messaging Clients with a file >transfer protocol. These methods will certainly work very well. However, >take this example which happened to me just last evening. A friend and I >were needing to set up a secure conversation. After we couldn't get Speak >Freely to handle the key exchange, we decided to e-mail the key in a PGP >encrypted e-mail. Trouble was, the mail server was down on his ISP. He >could neither receive or send mail. If he hadn't had an auxiliary web-based >e-mail account, things might have been more complex than they were. > >If Speak Freely were functioning correctly... let me amend that, IF we KNEW >how to make Speak Freely handle the key exchange as described in the help >file... It would have been a simple matter for us to allow Speak Freely to >handle the key exchange. What is supposed to happen is... in the >"connection" tab, you should be able to type the key identifier for the >person(s), Speak Freely will then launch PGP - which it does - encrypt the >generated key and transmit it to the intended recipients. This would >automate secure communications. From jya at pipeline.com Sat Jun 8 07:57:14 2002 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2002 07:57:14 -0700 Subject: FBI Net Tips In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A follow up on the LEO hit of Cryptome on 4 June 2002 referred from http://home.leo.gov/rollcall/internet_tips/2002/tip_060302.htm Here's the LEO website: http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/leo.htm Activities described on this site appear to contradict recent congressional testimony by the FBI director and SA Rowley about the bureau's Internet ineptitude and out-of-date telecomm capabilities. Thanks to SC for the LEO pointer, who also writes: ----- Just thought I'd follow up on the referer hit from leo.gov. I scanned the leo.gov subnet from 4.21.116.1 on up to 4.21.116.254. The dns name for 4.21.116.1 is genuity-gw1.leo.gov -- probably the gateway which Genuity government ISP http://www.genuity.com/services/government/security.htm has set up to route traffic to and from the LEO system. Genuity appear to have quite the e-government business going. Your tax dollars at work. All of the "security" which the FBI talks about on its LEO page http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/leo_sorum_intvue.htm is probably just them throwing money at Genuity's rebranding of out-of-the-box VPN stuff from Alcatel and Nortel. VPNs and complex passwords and a special email server so their jokes don't get lost -- what will they think of next we are left asking. An expensive lame-net for people who think they're working if they click around on their computer screen between meetings with software vendors. The lame commentary from the FBI suit on the LEO page would tend to confirm this. Sounds like the bureacrats everywhere who feel that they are doing their job if they are spending money justifying their job title. ----- From eugen at leitl.org Sat Jun 8 03:25:38 2002 From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 12:25:38 +0200 (CEST) Subject: PGP and Speak Freely (fwd) Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp Size: 5077 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pussydqlttewu at urbi.com.br Sat Jun 8 10:48:50 2002 From: pussydqlttewu at urbi.com.br (pussydqlttewu at urbi.com.br) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 12:48:50 -0500 Subject: CUM NOW FOR FREE!!! Message-ID: <1023554930.973@remotehost.remotedomain> cypherpunks at algebra.com FREE PORN ACCESS ALL THE PORN YOU CAN HANDLE!! 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To remove yourself from all related email lists, just click here: http://218.7.157.206:100/unsubscriber.asp?userid=cypherpunk at usa.net From fbtwjfqh at aol.com Sat Jun 8 16:59:07 2002 From: fbtwjfqh at aol.com (Lion James ) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 18:59:07 -0500 Subject: desert bloom Message-ID: <200206082359.g58Nx7oZ006922@ak47.algebra.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4479 bytes Desc: not available URL: From derek at ihtfp.com Sat Jun 8 20:18:56 2002 From: derek at ihtfp.com (Derek Atkins) Date: 08 Jun 2002 23:18:56 -0400 Subject: PKI: Only Mostly Dead In-Reply-To: <200206010818.UAA423916@ruru.cs.auckland.ac.nz> References: <200206010818.UAA423916@ruru.cs.auckland.ac.nz> Message-ID: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) writes: > For example the value > 1234567890 taken in isolation could be anything from my ICQ number > to my shoe size in kilo-angstroms, but if you view it as the pair { > , } then it makes sense > (disclaimer: I have no idea whether that's either a valid ICQ number > or my shoe size in kilo-angstroms). It's clearly not your shoe size in kilo-angstroms, unless you have MIGHTY large feet. According to 'units', that works out to 4860 inches. -derek -- Derek Atkins Computer and Internet Security Consultant derek at ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com From derek at ihtfp.com Sat Jun 8 21:18:24 2002 From: derek at ihtfp.com (Derek Atkins) Date: 09 Jun 2002 00:18:24 -0400 Subject: PKI: Only Mostly Dead In-Reply-To: <200206090401.QAA134079@ruru.cs.auckland.ac.nz> References: <200206090401.QAA134079@ruru.cs.auckland.ac.nz> Message-ID: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) writes: > >It's clearly not your shoe size in kilo-angstroms, unless you have MIGHTY > >large feet. According to 'units', that works out to 4860 inches. > > Obviously it's my hat size then. I always knew you had a fat head ;) > Peter. -derek -- Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/ PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH warlord at MIT.EDU PGP key available From alan at beyondgourmet.com Sun Jun 9 01:22:16 2002 From: alan at beyondgourmet.com (Alan Canas) Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 01:22:16 -0700 Subject: Fathers Day - It's Not to Late! Message-ID: <20020609082434Z399574-9349+1102@thor.valueweb.net> BeyondGourmet.com AVOID LAST MINUTE EXPRESS SHIPPING FEES AND TAKE ADVANTAGE OF OUR FREE GROUND SHIPPING Prefer to Order by Phone? Call Toll-Free (877) 999-4940 Sports Gift Box Barbecue Fun Gift Pack Fish Creel Gift Basket Puzzled With Trying to Figure Out What to Give Dad For Father's Day? The "Missing Piece" Can Be Found At Beyond Gourmet Using Their NEW Gift Finding Tool! 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Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 9658 bytes Desc: not available URL: From morlockelloi at yahoo.com Sun Jun 9 13:04:40 2002 From: morlockelloi at yahoo.com (Morlock Elloi) Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 13:04:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: PKI: Only Mostly Dead In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020609200440.7898.qmail@web13207.mail.yahoo.com> > > >It's clearly not your shoe size in kilo-angstroms, unless you have MIGHTY > > >large feet. According to 'units', that works out to 4860 inches. > > > > Obviously it's my hat size then. > > I always knew you had a fat head ;) The real point here that 100% context-free situations are very infrequent and when you run into one you should immediately suspect cyphertext, in broad meaning. ===== end (of original message) Y-a*h*o-o (yes, they scan for this) spam follows: Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From Spchlss101 at cs.com Sun Jun 9 10:40:23 2002 From: Spchlss101 at cs.com (Spchlss101 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 13:40:23 EDT Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <169.ed2c016.2a34ed07@cs.com> I had to rebuild my computer and love to play cribbage at pogo.com but upon my reinstallation, I can't recall my password to replay. I was told to go to compuserve 2000 but can't find where I need to recall my pass word for pogo.com. do you have any information? maybe a phone number? From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sun Jun 9 13:12:50 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 15:12:50 -0500 Subject: Slashdot | Australia Plans More Spying on Citizens Message-ID: <3D03B6C2.C1962C0E@ssz.com> http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/02/06/09/1627227.shtml?tid=99 -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sun Jun 9 13:14:26 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 15:14:26 -0500 Subject: Slashdot | David Bowie on Music, Copyrights, Distribution Message-ID: <3D03B722.836D6311@ssz.com> http://slashdot.org/articles/02/06/09/1354201.shtml?tid=141 -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sun Jun 9 13:17:07 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 15:17:07 -0500 Subject: Guardian Unlimited Observer | Politics | Police to spy on all emails Message-ID: <3D03B7C3.69D46321@ssz.com> http://www.observer.co.uk/politics/story/0,6903,730091,00.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From bill.stewart at pobox.com Sun Jun 9 15:22:50 2002 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 15:22:50 -0700 Subject: Entertaining Entrapment Email Effort Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020609151300.03b010a0@idiom.com> Vitas - I hope you're enjoying your stay at the Millenium & Copthorne Hotels, where you're using the internet service. You can find all the cracking tools you need for Jane's at 128.11.100.130 and 167.216.248.42. >Delivered-To: bill.stewart at pobox.com >X-Originating-IP: [195.224.80.50] >From: "cristian letelier" >To: bill.stewart at pobox.com >Subject: jane's >Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 18:10:25 +0100 > >dear sir/madam >i would appreciate if you could help me with some information. >i am a researcher and it has become quite frustrating for me to spend >hours and hours at the british library only to copy the information i need >from jane's world armies (so far i have copied half of what i need and i >still have jane's world air forces & fighting ships left). >i wonder if you can give me some kind of clue about how to get these >publications cracked or dowloaded from the net. >you do not understand how grateful i would be. >regards >vitas From morlockelloi at yahoo.com Sun Jun 9 15:34:51 2002 From: morlockelloi at yahoo.com (Morlock Elloi) Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 15:34:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Entertaining Entrapment Email Effort In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020609151300.03b010a0@idiom.com> Message-ID: <20020609223451.45322.qmail@web13201.mail.yahoo.com> > Vitas - I hope you're enjoying your stay at the Millenium & Copthorne Hotels, > where you're using the internet service. It's depressing how IQ of TLA personnel is inversely proportional to the amount of money pumped into them. TLAE (TLA effectiveness) seems to be a universal constant. ===== end (of original message) Y-a*h*o-o (yes, they scan for this) spam follows: Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz Sat Jun 8 21:01:51 2002 From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 16:01:51 +1200 (NZST) Subject: PKI: Only Mostly Dead Message-ID: <200206090401.QAA134079@ruru.cs.auckland.ac.nz> Derek Atkins >pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) writes: >> For example the value >>1234567890 taken in isolation could be anything from my ICQ number >>to my shoe size in kilo-angstroms, but if you view it as the pair { >>, } then it makes sense >>(disclaimer: I have no idea whether that's either a valid ICQ number >>or my shoe size in kilo-angstroms). > >It's clearly not your shoe size in kilo-angstroms, unless you have MIGHTY >large feet. According to 'units', that works out to 4860 inches. Obviously it's my hat size then. Peter. From green at abdyesilkart.com Sun Jun 9 09:17:53 2002 From: green at abdyesilkart.com (abdyesilkart.com) Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 19:17:53 +0300 Subject: Say�n cypherpunks , Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2360 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fredericks at time-2-win.com Sun Jun 9 19:57:08 2002 From: fredericks at time-2-win.com (Frederick's of Hollywood) Date: Sun, 9 Jun 19:57:08 2002 -0700 Subject: 60% OFF Blowout Sale Message-ID: <62174186.5121962@mailhost> Now's your chance to save big at Frederick's online Blowout Sale! That's right: You can save up to 60% off regular price! There are no codes to enter; prices have already been marked down. Hurry before your size disappears! Click here to start shopping our Blowout Sale. http://www.fredericks.com/default.asp?vP=MINCS002 Sale prices for online orders only and not valid for previous purchases. Quantities are limited and prices are subject to change. Enjoy! ==================================================== Time-2-Win This has been brought to you by Time-2-Win.com. You are receiving this offer because you signed up with us directly or through one of our affiliates. If you feel this email has reached you by mistake, please accept our apologies. If you no longer wish to receive offers from Time-2-Win.com, please visit http://www.time-2-win.com/unsubscribe.jsp to unsubscribe yourself from our databases. The email address that was used for this offer is: cypherpunks at einstein.ssz.com cypherpunks#einstein.ssz.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1716 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lynn.wheeler at firstdata.com Sun Jun 9 19:58:32 2002 From: lynn.wheeler at firstdata.com (lynn.wheeler at firstdata.com) Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 20:58:32 -0600 Subject: PKI: Only Mostly Dead Message-ID: I think there is even less "I" than most people suspect. I've recently taken to some manual sampling of SSL domain name server certificates ... and finding certificates that have expired ... but being accepted by several browsers that i've tested with (no complaints or fault indications). there was thread in another forum where I observed that back when originally working on this payment/ecommerce thing for this small client/server startup that had invented these things called SSL & HTTPS ... my wife and I had to go around to various certificate manufactures with regard to some due diligence activity. I think w/o exception that they all made some comment about the "PK" being technical ... and the "I" being service ... and providing "service" is an extremely hard thing to do (and they hadn't anticipated how really hard it is). some past ssl domain name certificate threads: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#sslcerts As i've observed previously there are a number of ways that the technical stuff for "PK" can be done w/o it having to equate to (capital) PKI ... some recent threads on this subject: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay10.htm#31 some certification & authentication landscape summary from recent threads http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay10.htm#32 some certification & authentication landscape summary from recent threads http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay10.htm#34 some certification & authentication landscape summary from recent threads http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay10.htm#35 some certification & authentication landscape summary from recent threads http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm11.htm#18 IBM alternative to PKI? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm11.htm#19 IBM alternative to PKI? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm11.htm#20 IBM alternative to PKI? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm11.htm#21 IBM alternative to PKI? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm11.htm#22 IBM alternative to PKI? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm11.htm#23 Proxy PKI. Was: IBM alternative to PKI? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm11.htm#24 Proxy PKI. Was: IBM alternative to PKI? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm11.htm#25 Proxy PKI. Was: IBM alternative to PKI? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm11.htm#26 Proxy PKI http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm11.htm#27 Proxy PKI http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm11.htm#30 Proposal: A replacement for 3D Secure http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm11.htm#32 ALARMED ... Only Mostly Dead ... RIP PKI http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm11.htm#33 ALARMED ... Only Mostly Dead ... RIP PKI http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm11.htm#34 ALARMED ... Only Mostly Dead ... RIP PKI http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm11.htm#35 ALARMED ... Only Mostly Dead ... RIP PKI .. addenda http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm11.htm#36 ALARMED ... Only Mostly Dead ... RIP PKI .. addenda II http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm11.htm#37 ALARMED ... Only Mostly Dead ... RIP PKI http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm11.htm#38 ALARMED ... Only Mostly Dead ... RIP PKI ... part II http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm11.htm#39 ALARMED ... Only Mostly Dead ... RIP PKI .. addenda http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm11.htm#40 ALARMED ... Only Mostly Dead ... RIP PKI ... part II http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm11.htm#42 ALARMED ... Only Mostly Dead ... RIP PKI ... part III pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz at 6/1/2002 2:18am wrote: >Peter Gutmann should be declared an international resource. Thankyou Nobody. You should have found the e-gold in your acount by now : -). >Only one little thing mars this picture. PKI IS A TREMENDOUS SUCCESS WHICH IS >USED EVERY DAY BY MILLIONS OF PEOPLE. Of course this is in reference to the >use of public key certificates to secure ecommerce web sites. Every one of >those https connections is secured by an X.509 certificate infrastructure. >That's PKI. "Opinion is divided on the subject" -- Captain Rum, Blackadder, "Potato". The use with SSL is what Anne|Lynn Wheeler refer to as "certificate manufacturing" (marvellous term). You send the CA (and lets face it, that's going to be Verisign) your name and credit card number, and get back a cert. It's just an expensive way of doing authenticated DNS lookups with a ttl of one year. Plenty of PK, precious little I. >The truth is that we are surrounded by globally unique identifiers and we use >them every day. URLs, email addresses, DNS host names, Freenet selection >keys, ICQ numbers, MojoIDs, all of these are globally unique! >"pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz" is a globally unique name; you can use that >address from anywhere in the world and it will get to the same mailbox. You can play with semantics here and claim the exact opposite. All of the cases you've cited are actually examples of global distinguisher + locally unique name. For example the value 1234567890 taken in isolation could be anything from my ICQ number to my shoe size in kilo-angstroms, but if you view it as the pair { , } then it makes sense (disclaimer: I have no idea whether that's either a valid ICQ number or my shoe size in kilo-angstroms). (This is very much a philosophical issue. Someone on ietf-pkix a year or two back tried to claim that X.500 DNs must be a Good Thing because RFC 822 email address and DNS names and whatnot are hierarchical like DNs and therefore can't be bad. I would suspect that most people view them as just dumb text strings rather than a hierarchically structured set of attributes like a DN. The debate sort of fizzled out when no-one could agree on a particular view). I think the unified view is that what you need for a cert is a global distinguisher and a locally meaningful name, rather than some complex hierarchical thing which tries to be universally meaningful. Frequently the distinguisher is implied (eg with DNS names, email addresses, "for use within XYZ Copy only", etc), and the definition of "local" really means "local to the domain specified in the global distinguisher". I'm not sure whether I can easily fit all that into the paper without getting too philosophical - it was really meant as a guide for users of PKI technology. Peter. --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sun Jun 9 19:41:56 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 21:41:56 -0500 Subject: Slashdot | Hong Kong's Octopus (Smart Card) Message-ID: <3D0411F4.330365DE@ssz.com> http://slashdot.org/articles/02/06/09/220224.shtml?tid=126 -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jennifer.garcia at icleer.com Sun Jun 9 21:46:56 2002 From: jennifer.garcia at icleer.com (jennifer.garcia at icleer.com) Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 21:46:56 Subject: ETLK Possibly Undervalued? Message-ID: <200206100200.g5A20s724441@eltk.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 13390 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sun Jun 9 19:49:23 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 21:49:23 -0500 Subject: Hiding (and Seeking) Messages on the Web Message-ID: <3D0413B3.885602A9@ssz.com> http://www.msnbc.com/news/764107.asp -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From con51uco at yahoo.com Mon Jun 10 07:08:23 2002 From: con51uco at yahoo.com (con51uco at yahoo.com) Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 22:08:23 -1600 Subject: C:\product\Products\spc\subject.txtV Message-ID: <0000441355b7$00005fdd$00006ac2@mx2.mail.yahoo.com> If your home is served by a septic system, you will be able to receive invaluable information on how to eliminate pump outs, maintain the system properly for FREE !!! Our packetge will cure problems such as backups, wet spots, odor, etc. You can start this FREE trial by checking out our SPC program at: http://www.abc-holdings.info/spc/ Please takes a mintuet to fill out the form, so we can send you the packetage. From jimwaleck at mail.com Mon Jun 10 01:18:27 2002 From: jimwaleck at mail.com (Gaylee Brooker) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 01:18:27 -0700 Subject: danield,Quick Issue Life Insurance Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2331 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mjd9cypherpunksbc at kmail.com.au Mon Jun 10 02:32:13 2002 From: mjd9cypherpunksbc at kmail.com.au (mjd9cypherpunksbc at kmail.com.au) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 02:32:13 -0700 Subject: * Mortgage Leads!! * Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 650 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mv at cdc.gov Mon Jun 10 03:05:07 2002 From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret)) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 03:05:07 -0700 Subject: Brinworld meets the camelshaggers: Phonecams in Arabia Message-ID: <3D0479D3.1D0E8C47@cdc.gov> http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/toptease_1.html Saudi voyeurs like new cell phone-cameras SPECIAL TO WORLD TRIBUNE.COM Sunday, June 9, 2002 ABU DHABI  Saudi Arabia is being urged to ban a new cellular phone that can be used to take digital photographs. The reason: Saudi men have been reported to use the high tech phones to surreptitiously photograph women. Religious police have already confiscated shipments of the new cellular phones. Officials said Saudi women had complained that young Saudi men were slipping the devices into facilities reserved for women and secretly taking photographs, Middle East Newsline reported. Small Business Opportunity: Special offer for WorldTribune readers Religious police chief Ibrahim Al Ghaith, has urged the kingdom to ban the phones. The phones are being distributed by numerous dealers, including Saudi Ericsson, where they are said to be a popular item among Saudi men. Saudi officials do not expect a decision to ban the cellular phones. They are capable of taking more than 280 digital photographs and cost more than $400. One concern is that Saudi men have slipped the cellular phones into wedding halls reserved for women. Saudi Arabia is a segregated society and women in public are completely covered by a veil and robe. From drugs at yahoo.com Mon Jun 10 04:04:16 2002 From: drugs at yahoo.com (Masaru Cuaresma) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 04:04:16 -0700 Subject: cypherpad,Let us serve you Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2112 bytes Desc: not available URL: From paulabbas2002 at excite.com Mon Jun 10 04:09:01 2002 From: paulabbas2002 at excite.com (paul abbas) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 04:09:01 Subject: Partnership Requested (Strictly Confidential) Message-ID: <200206100314.g5A3E8ZL004872@ak47.algebra.com> Paul Abbas 16 Kingsway Road Ikoyi, Lagos Nigeria. Tel/Fax: 234 1 7742619 9th June, 2002. Request for Business Relationship. First I must solicit your confidence in this transaction. This is by virtue of its nature as being utterly confidential and top secret. We shall be counting on your ability and reliability to prosecute a transaction of great magnitude involving a pending business transaction requiring maximum confidence. We are top officials of the Federal Government Contract Review Panel who are interested in importation of goods into our country with funds which are presently trapped in Nigeria. In order to commence this business we solicit your assistance to enable us RECIEVE the said trapped funds ABROAD. The source of this fund is as follows : During the regime of our late head of state, Gen. Sani Abacha, the government officials set up companies and awarded themselves contracts which were grossly over-invoiced in various Ministries. The NEW CIVILIAN Government set up a Contract Review Panel (C.R.P) and we have identified a lot of inflated contract funds which are presently floating in the Central Bank of Nigeria (C.B.N). However, due to our position as civil servants and members of this panel, we cannot acquire this money in our names. I have therefore, been delegated as a matter of trust by my colleagues of the panel to look for an Overseas partner INTO whose ACCOUNT the sum of US$31,000,000.00 (Thirty one Million United States Dollars) WILL BE PAID BY TELEGRAPHIC TRANSFER. Hence we are writing you this letter. We have agreed to share the money thus: 70% for us (the officials) 20% for the FOREIGN PARTNER (you) 10% to be used in settling taxation and all local and foreign expenses. It is from this 70% that we wish to commence the importation business. Please note that this transaction is 100% safe in all it's ramifications and we hope that the funds arrive your account in latest ten (10) banking days from the date of reciept of the following information by email: A suitable name and bank account into which the funds can be paid. The above information will enable us write letters of claim and job description respectively. This way we will use your company's name to apply for payments and re-award the contract in your company name. We are looking forward to doing business with you and solicit your confidentiality in this transaction. For security reasons and in order to move forward quickly, please respond to me by Tel/Fax:234 1 7742619 so I can bring you into the complete picture of this pending project and provide more information as to the succcessful conclusion of this project. The best response however, would be by telephone, so we can discuss fully all issues needed to complete this venture in good time, and successfully. Thank you and God bless. Yours Faithfully, Paul Abbas. Tel/Fax: 234 1 7742619 From request at logos.net Mon Jun 10 01:43:10 2002 From: request at logos.net (request at logos.net) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 04:43:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Verba Volant Message-ID: <200206100843.g5A8h9E39026@locust.minder.net> 10-GIU-02 We have been requested to insert the following email address, "cypherpunks at minder.net", in the Verba Volant Newsletter database. Through this daily service you will receive a quotation, selected from amongst the most celebrated philosophers, writers and poets of all time and translated into many languages and dialects by volunteers worldwide. If you would like to confirm your subscription to Verba Volant, please click on the following link: http://www.verba-volant.net/pls/vvolant/subscribe?lang=en&email=cypherpunks at minder.net If you do not wish to click on the link, your subscription will be cancelled. Thank you for your time. Verba Volant 10-GIU-02 Il nous a 占퐐占� demand占� d'ajouter l'adresse 占퐇ectronique "cypherpunks at minder.net" dans la liste des destinataires de Verba Volant, un service qui tous les jours vous adressera une citation s占퐇ectionn占폾 parmi les 占퐑vres des meilleurs philosophes, 占폺rivains, po占퐐es de tous les temps et traduite en de tr占퐏 nombreuses langues gr占폺e 占� des volontaires du monde entier. 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From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Mon Jun 10 04:45:03 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 06:45:03 -0500 Subject: Slashdot | Battle of the Secure (Linux) Distros Message-ID: <3D04913F.5D449BAB@ssz.com> http://slashdot.org/articles/02/06/10/0243209.shtml?tid=106 -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From InsightontheNews at broadbandpublisher.com Mon Jun 10 06:23:31 2002 From: InsightontheNews at broadbandpublisher.com (Insight on the News) Date: 10 Jun 2002 09:23:31 -0400 Subject: Insight on the News Email Edition Message-ID: <200206100923306.SM01140@broadbandpublisher.com> INSIGHT NEWS ALERT! A new issue of Insight on the News is now online http://insightmag.com ............................................... Folks, this week you占퐇l want to pay special attention to Martin Andersen占퐏 expose of the FBI, and why it puts its own interests ahead of the war on terrorism. http://insightmag.com/news/255117.html And Kelly O占폦eara does it again with her investigation of the missing Enron billions. http://insightmag.com/news/255115.html Until we meet again, I remain your newsman in the Bunker. ............................................... THE FBI. . . . .GOING ALONG TO GET ALONG Martin Andersen reveals that the FBI占퐏 占폺over your rear-end占� culture needs a total overhaul before the bureau truly can help win the war on terror. http://insightmag.com/news/255117.html ............................................... THE ANTI-PC REVOLUTION IN ACADEMIA Steve Goode reports that nearly 300 academics and others met recently at the annual conference of the National Association of Scholars. 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Save $50.83 (Off Our Newsstand Price) https://www.collegepublisher.com/insightsub/subform1.cfm ======================================== You have received this newsletter because you have a user name and password at Insight on the News. To unsubscribe from this newsletter, visit "http://insightmag.com/main.cfm?include=unsubscribe". You may also log into Insight on the News and edit your account preferences on the Web. If you have forgotten or don't know your user name and password, it will be emailed to you after visiting the following link: http://insightmag.com/main.cfm?include=emailPassword&serialNumber=16oai891z5&email=cypherpunks at ssz.com From euro at rocket2mars.com Mon Jun 10 09:18:47 2002 From: euro at rocket2mars.com (INGO VAN STYN) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 12:18:47 -0400 Subject: Siroflex Bakc in stock Message-ID: <08e501c2109a$7fecab60$0501a8c0@BOSS> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: AA.EURO-SHINE LETTER HEAD.doc Type: application/msword Size: 26112 bytes Desc: not available URL: From euro at rocket2mars.com Mon Jun 10 09:18:50 2002 From: euro at rocket2mars.com (INGO VAN STYN) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 12:18:50 -0400 Subject: Siroflex Bakc in stock Message-ID: <009f01c2109a$814d9af0$0501a8c0@BOSS> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: AA.EURO-SHINE LETTER HEAD.doc Type: application/msword Size: 26112 bytes Desc: not available URL: From euro at rocket2mars.com Mon Jun 10 09:18:51 2002 From: euro at rocket2mars.com (INGO VAN STYN) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 12:18:51 -0400 Subject: Siroflex Bakc in stock Message-ID: <00a001c2109a$81fb8e30$0501a8c0@BOSS> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: AA.EURO-SHINE LETTER HEAD.doc Type: application/msword Size: 26112 bytes Desc: not available URL: From euro at rocket2mars.com Mon Jun 10 09:18:53 2002 From: euro at rocket2mars.com (INGO VAN STYN) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 12:18:53 -0400 Subject: Siroflex Bakc in stock Message-ID: <08e601c2109a$838c1940$0501a8c0@BOSS> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: AA.EURO-SHINE LETTER HEAD.doc Type: application/msword Size: 26112 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bizoopwpqov at miesto.sk Mon Jun 10 10:55:17 2002 From: bizoopwpqov at miesto.sk (bizoopwpqov at miesto.sk) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 12:55:17 -0500 Subject: INC 500 Co. Seeks Mgrs. / High $$ Paid! Message-ID: <1023728117.973@remotehost.remotedomain> cypherpunks at algebra.com Hi-tech industry manufacturer is now seeking motivated individuals with entrepreneurial drive for U.S. and Canadian expansion. Huge compensation benefits program offered! 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SF also should display part of the parameters used to generate the ephemeral key, allowing the users to assure themselves that there is no Man In The Middle attack underway. (yes, this is obvious to most cpunk subscribers, but apparently not to all SF users) Peter Trei > ---------- > From: Major Variola (ret)[SMTP:mv at cdc.gov] > Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 10:16 AM > To: cypherpunks at lne.com; btmoore at iname.com; speak-freely at fourmilab.ch; > ed at kapitein.net > Subject: RE: PGP and Speak Freely (fwd) > > [stuff y'all knew but for the record] > > Basically the authors of the below post find that Speak Freely's > reliance on out-of-band symmetric key exchange is solved with PGP email. > > PGPfone does this for you over the same channel --using the > mathemiracle of public-key crypto. Since you're both > necessarily online, it can and does use Diffie-Hellman instead of RSA. > It does not save the negotiated key pair so if no endpoint is taping, > the > conversation is lost to the wind. > > Speak Freely is a nice piece of work, however compared to PGPfone > it 1. requires OOB key exchange 2. isn't supported on Macs FWIW. > I don't recall if SF works both ways, but PGPfone supports both IP > and direct modem to modem links. > > (Just for completeness, anyone researching the field should evaluate > Nautilus too.) > > > At 12:25 PM 6/8/02 +0200, Eugen Leitl wrote: > >Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2002 03:42:12 -0500 > >From: "Benjamin T. Moore, Jr." > >To: ed at kapitein.net, speak-freely at fourmilab.ch > >Subject: RE: PGP and Speak Freely > > > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >Hash: SHA1 > > > >Ok, let me see if I can maybe clarify what the issue is... Speak Freely > > >offers the ability to encrypt your voice conversations in real time. If > you > >have the "Crypto capable" version, when you've made a connection to > >someone, you both can enter an agreed upon key and your conversation > will > >be secure from that point forward. This of course creates several > problems. > >If someone is listening in, monitoring your conversation/traffic or > packet > >sniffing, if for instance, you were to say in the conversation, lets > use > >the word "monkey" for an IDEA key and you both typed in the word > "monkey," > >your conversation would be encrypted using "monkey" as an IDEA key. The > > >problem of course is, if someone is monitoring your conversation, > they'd of > >heard you agree upon a key and they'd simply enter in the same key and > >continue to monitor. > > > >Thus, you need a method of securely exchanging either an agreed upon > key or > >a generated key - Speak Freely will generate keys that you may copy and > > >paste into any of the various windows for the various encryption > >algorithms. PGP, Pretty Good Privacy, is one damn good method of > securely > >exchanging those keys. You may of course e-mail the key in an encrypted > > >e-mail or file to the intended recipients or you could even send the > >encrypted file using several of the Instant Messaging Clients with a > file > >transfer protocol. These methods will certainly work very well. > However, > >take this example which happened to me just last evening. A friend and > I > >were needing to set up a secure conversation. After we couldn't get > Speak > >Freely to handle the key exchange, we decided to e-mail the key in a > PGP > >encrypted e-mail. Trouble was, the mail server was down on his ISP. He > >could neither receive or send mail. If he hadn't had an auxiliary > web-based > >e-mail account, things might have been more complex than they were. > > > >If Speak Freely were functioning correctly... let me amend that, IF we > KNEW > >how to make Speak Freely handle the key exchange as described in the > help > >file... It would have been a simple matter for us to allow Speak Freely > to > >handle the key exchange. What is supposed to happen is... in the > >"connection" tab, you should be able to type the key identifier for the > > >person(s), Speak Freely will then launch PGP - which it does - encrypt > the > >generated key and transmit it to the intended recipients. This would > >automate secure communications. From k.brown at ccs.bbk.ac.uk Mon Jun 10 08:44:01 2002 From: k.brown at ccs.bbk.ac.uk (Ken Brown) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 16:44:01 +0100 Subject: Degrees of Freedom vs. Hollywood Control Freaks References: <3CFFC0B3.43FDF036@cdc.gov> Message-ID: <3D04C941.F78C464E@ccs.bbk.ac.uk> "Major Variola (ret)" wrote: > Jeezum, how old *are* you? We haven't called vacuum tubes 'valves' for > some time.. Oh yes we do! I never call them anything but "valves". From support at isfuckingbrilliant.com Mon Jun 10 10:39:40 2002 From: support at isfuckingbrilliant.com (IFB Project) Date: 10 Jun 2002 17:39:40 -0000 Subject: Important update from the IFB Project Message-ID: <20020610173940.81044.qmail@nitroweb.net> RE: your domain ifb.is.a.group.of.lamers.who.spam.mailing.lists.with.responses.for.their.domain.which.is.isfuckingbrilliant.com Dear IFB Member, Firstly we would like to apologise sincerely for sending you this mail without notice but we feel that the severity of this matter justifies sending it. The IFB Project since launch has been a completely free service and was setup simply as a fun project on the side by some of the employees of its parent company, NitroWeb Computing Ltd. Since it's launch in early 2000 the IFB Project has been very successful but unfortunately the time has come where a project with the member base of this size and the speed it's growing at makes it no longer financially viable for the company to support alone. For this reason we are now seeking a small donation from our members in order to cover the maintenance costs of the server, domain and bandwidth costs. Here's what we ask: Subscribe to the IFB Project for 20 Euros ( USD) and we'll remove the banner from your IFB Domain name - hereby supporting us to keep the IFB Project up and running. To make payment please go here: http://isfuckingbrilliant.com/members/removebanner.phtml And login using your email address: cypherpunks at algebra.com and password: FuckIFB You may also donate variable amounts to the IFB by visiting the following URL: http://isfuckingbrilliant.com/donate.phtml Please note ALL PAYMENTS ARE GUARENTEED SECURE BY WORLDPAY. Payment can be made online using a credit or debit card. Once again we apologise sincerely for sending you this mail. Kindest Regards, The IFB Project Team. From MO2004_20020529_814 at link2buy.com Mon Jun 10 18:00:08 2002 From: MO2004_20020529_814 at link2buy.com (EAASI) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 18:00:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Let Autoweb help you with all your Automotive Shopping Needs! Message-ID: <850218409.1023757933824.mu@link2buy.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Just copy and paste the following URL into your browser: http://www.lowermybills.com/iau/index.jsp?sourceid=meminemhfam200360527 _~ ** ~_ _ ~ ** ~ _ _ ~ ** ~ _ _ ~ ** ~ _ _ ~ ** ~ _ _~ ** ~_ ==================================================== Time-2-Win This has been brought to you by Time-2-Win.com. You are receiving this offer because you signed up with us directly or through one of our affiliates. If you feel this email has reached you by mistake, please accept our apologies. If you no longer wish to receive offers from Time-2-Win.com, please visit http://www.time-2-win.com/unsubscribe.jsp to unsubscribe yourself from our databases. The email address that was used for this offer is: cypherpunks at einstein.ssz.com cypherpunks#einstein.ssz.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3868 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Mon Jun 10 18:58:25 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 20:58:25 -0500 Subject: CNN.com - Supreme Court rejects appeals testing individual right to own arms - June 10, 2002 Message-ID: <3D055941.5D582642@ssz.com> http://www.cnn.com/2002/LAW/06/10/scotus.guns.ap/index.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Mon Jun 10 19:20:43 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 21:20:43 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Ben's blinding, plus pre-publishing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Jason Holt wrote: > copyright issues? Why haven't I seen other papers published on usenet and > such before going to press? ???? This is a joke right? Copyright, they want it as the exclusive distributor which they can't do if it's been published somewhere else. -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Mon Jun 10 19:26:05 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 21:26:05 -0500 Subject: DRUDGE REPORT 2002� - Dirty bomb suspect can be held indefinitely Message-ID: <3D055FBD.F103D425@ssz.com> http://www.drudgereport.com/flash1.htm -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From tcmay at got.net Mon Jun 10 21:36:24 2002 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 21:36:24 -0700 Subject: Sci Journals, authors, internet In-Reply-To: <20020611035557.GB17865@ils.unc.edu> Message-ID: On Monday, June 10, 2002, at 08:55 PM, Greg Newby wrote: > On Mon, Jun 10, 2002 at 10:53:05PM -0400, Steve Furlong wrote: >> My experience with scientific journals is more than a few years old. Do >> any of youse have personal experience with publishing both several >> years ago and recently? > > Not much has changed, other than continued price rises and consolidation > in the publishing industry. Ejournals are making in-roads, especially > in some fields, and are breaking some patterns. Print publishers are > working to "extend and embrace" some of the new models. > > Meanwhile, academic libraries are undergoing a continued "serials > crisis" where the price increases in print journals far exceeds > any other cost. There was (maybe still is?) a boycott of some > Elsevier products for some of their more eggregious pricing. > Anyone here who has not already done so should immediately type "xxx.lanl.gov" into their browser. (No, the "xxx" is not a typo, nor is it a porn site.) This is where physics papers are getting published. The print journals are surviving, barely, but I think the handwriting is already on the wall. As libraries balk at paying $6000 per year for "Journal of Advanced Aptical Foddering" and as the referee system goes online as well (*), the print journals will financially fail. Maybe no one will notice. As John Baez has pointed out, most of the grad students he deals with never visit the campus library. All papers of interest in cosmology, quantum physics, solid state, etc. are being published on the arXhive sites. In the last few months, I've been using this system extensively, and have downloaded about 2500 pages of PDF files. I know how many pages because I've printed out most of the papers. Five reams of paper later.... For why my printing out the papers does not vitiate my arguments about the death of tree-based publishing, think about it for a moment. (* The referee system could be more richly nuanced with an online rating system. At the simplest, a vote of N referees, as today. But some papers could be marked "speculative, but not bullshit" (or somesuch). In other words, a two-dimensional rating system, or higher. And, as all Cypherpunks know, the longer-term future is "anyone can publish, but expect users to have sophisticated agents filtering the junk." For the next decade or so, I expect the xxx.lanl.gov approach will be sufficiently better than paper publishing that it will dominate. Then will come the more advanced approaches. But tree-based publishing is dying.) For those concerned with the "sanctity and durability of paper," all sorts of obvious solutions exist. CD-ROMS, DVDs, archival-quality tape and discs, distributed publishing a la Eternity (and my own 1995 proposal), digital time-stamping, etc. --Tim May "Gun Control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound" From sfurlong at acmenet.net Mon Jun 10 19:53:05 2002 From: sfurlong at acmenet.net (Steve Furlong) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 22:53:05 -0400 Subject: Sci Journals, authors, internet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200206102253.05718.sfurlong@acmenet.net> On Monday 10 June 2002 22:20, Jim Choate wrote: > On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Jason Holt wrote: > > copyright issues? Why haven't I seen other papers published on > > usenet and such before going to press? > > ???? This is a joke right? > > Copyright, they want it as the exclusive distributor which they can't > do if it's been published somewhere else. Which is especially impressive since some journals not only wanted the authors to basically give up their copyright but wanted the authors to pay for publication. My experience with scientific journals is more than a few years old. Do any of youse have personal experience with publishing both several years ago and recently? SRF -- Steve Furlong Computer Condottiere Have GNU, Will Travel Vote Idiotarian --- it's easier than thinking From return at intercowel.co.kr Mon Jun 10 07:21:51 2002 From: return at intercowel.co.kr (인터코웰 (주)) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 23:21:51 +0900 Subject: [홍보] 웹사이트는 인터코웰과..... Message-ID: <200206101420.JAA29731@einstein.ssz.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 6235 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gbnewby at ils.unc.edu Mon Jun 10 20:55:57 2002 From: gbnewby at ils.unc.edu (Greg Newby) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 23:55:57 -0400 Subject: Sci Journals, authors, internet In-Reply-To: <200206102253.05718.sfurlong@acmenet.net> References: <200206102253.05718.sfurlong@acmenet.net> Message-ID: <20020611035557.GB17865@ils.unc.edu> On Mon, Jun 10, 2002 at 10:53:05PM -0400, Steve Furlong wrote: > > On Monday 10 June 2002 22:20, Jim Choate wrote: > > On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Jason Holt wrote: > > > copyright issues? Why haven't I seen other papers published on > > > usenet and such before going to press? > > > > ???? This is a joke right? > > > > Copyright, they want it as the exclusive distributor which they can't > > do if it's been published somewhere else. Some electronic journals, some conferences and some print journals now let authors retain copyright or, if they keep copyright, allow authors to do what they please with their work. It's far more typical, though, for the journal to get all rights, except perhaps classroom use (aka "fair use") by the author. > Which is especially impressive since some journals not only wanted the > authors to basically give up their copyright but wanted the authors to > pay for publication. (And then charge the author's institution a fortune to subscribe to the same journal.) I think that there are still some journals iwth these "page charges," in which the employer or (more likely) some grants are expected to pay for publication. This was prevalent in the sciences, not arts and humanities. I never had to pay any, but information science (me) is more like a social science than a hard science in many ways. I *have*, this year, been told that a journal would be happy to publish my screen shots in color for a few $thousand per page, but would do them in B&W free. > My experience with scientific journals is more than a few years old. Do > any of youse have personal experience with publishing both several > years ago and recently? Not much has changed, other than continued price rises and consolidation in the publishing industry. Ejournals are making in-roads, especially in some fields, and are breaking some patterns. Print publishers are working to "extend and embrace" some of the new models. Meanwhile, academic libraries are undergoing a continued "serials crisis" where the price increases in print journals far exceeds any other cost. There was (maybe still is?) a boycott of some Elsevier products for some of their more eggregious pricing. -- Greg From densuth at Flashmail.com Mon Jun 10 09:01:28 2002 From: densuth at Flashmail.com (Roderick McGhee) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 00:01:28 +0800 Subject: cypherpunk,Money Back Guarantee - All Natural Breast Enlargement Pills! Message-ID: <200206101559.g5AFx4ZL030235@ak47.algebra.com> ================================= Guaranteed to increase, lift and firm your breasts in 60 days or your money back!! 100% herbal and natural. Proven formula since 1996. Increase your bust by 1 to 3 sizes within 30-60 days and be all natural. Click here: http://218.7.157.206:100 Absolutely no side effects! Be more self confident! Be more comfortable in bed! No more need for a lift or support bra! 100% GUARANTEED AND FROM A NAME YOU KNOW AND TRUST! ************************************************** You are receiving this email as a double opt-in subscriber to the Standard Affiliates Mailing List. To remove yourself from all related email lists, just click here: http://218.7.157.206:100/unsubscriber.asp?userid=cypherpunk at webcafe.net From densuth at Flashmail.com Mon Jun 10 09:01:28 2002 From: densuth at Flashmail.com (Roderick McGhee) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 00:01:28 +0800 Subject: cypherpunk,Money Back Guarantee - All Natural Breast Enlargement Pills! Message-ID: <200206101605.LAA30271@einstein.ssz.com> ================================= Guaranteed to increase, lift and firm your breasts in 60 days or your money back!! 100% herbal and natural. Proven formula since 1996. Increase your bust by 1 to 3 sizes within 30-60 days and be all natural. Click here: http://218.7.157.206:100 Absolutely no side effects! Be more self confident! Be more comfortable in bed! No more need for a lift or support bra! 100% GUARANTEED AND FROM A NAME YOU KNOW AND TRUST! ************************************************** You are receiving this email as a double opt-in subscriber to the Standard Affiliates Mailing List. To remove yourself from all related email lists, just click here: http://218.7.157.206:100/unsubscriber.asp?userid=cypherpunk at webcafe.net From francop at aol.com Mon Jun 10 22:24:19 2002 From: francop at aol.com (francop at aol.com) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 01:24:19 -0400 Subject: guaranteed lower house payments 1575332211 Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 384 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jason at lunkwill.org Mon Jun 10 18:56:34 2002 From: jason at lunkwill.org (Jason Holt) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 01:56:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Ben's blinding, plus pre-publishing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Maybe you could say more about the details of your credential system. >Such a system built on Wagner blinding might be very interesting. I've been thinking it would be nice to post my entire paper here (and maybe on sci.crypt.research) before sending it off to the journals. What are the issues surrounding that, though? The academic folks here seem uncomfortable when I talk about it, like I'd be leaking something secret. AFAICT, nobody else would be able to apply for a patent on the idea without telling a lot of lies in the process. So that leaves the possibility that somebody whips out another paper on the topic before mine's all the way done. Are the journals going to be snippy about copyright issues? Why haven't I seen other papers published on usenet and such before going to press? >> If I replace h1 with (g^b0) and get the issuer to sign: >> >> ((g^b0)*g^b1 *h2*g^b2 *h3*g^b3...)^k >> >> I should be able to divide the two results and get h1^k. But part of the >> cut-and-choose protocol will be to require that the n/2 checked documents >> are all valid and different from any previous instances of the protocol. >> So it should be extremely hard for the user to sneak lots of previously >> used values and fake h's (which are really blinding factors) into the >> unrevealed documents. But are there other ways to separate out signatures >> on individual h's? >You're really going to remember all the discarded h values from all the >previous instances of credential issuing? Seems like it might be a lot of >data. How many h values do you typically expect? I get around that by having the issuer issue a new random value for each issuing session which gets hashed several times along with some other data before going into the blinded messages. You have to prove that the value properly descends from the issuer's random value, which makes it tough to reuse values from a previous session. -J From dev4biz at ukr.net Mon Jun 10 23:51:12 2002 From: dev4biz at ukr.net (Development for business) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 02:51:12 -0400 Subject: Business proposal Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3311 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dev4biz at ukr.net Mon Jun 10 23:51:12 2002 From: dev4biz at ukr.net (Development for business) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 02:51:12 -0400 Subject: Business proposal Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3311 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dev4biz at ukr.net Mon Jun 10 23:51:12 2002 From: dev4biz at ukr.net (Development for business) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 02:51:12 -0400 Subject: Business proposal Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3311 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dev4biz at ukr.net Mon Jun 10 23:51:12 2002 From: dev4biz at ukr.net (Development for business) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 02:51:12 -0400 Subject: Business proposal Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3311 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sitebuilder at zdnet.com Tue Jun 11 01:15:10 2002 From: sitebuilder at zdnet.com (Customer Service) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 04:15:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: A Special Note for the Builder Buzz Community Message-ID: <200206110815.EAA27005@cma.zdnet.com.> Dear Builder Buzz Members: As you know, Builder.com has undergone a major redesign in the past month. And you've probably noticed that Builder.com's discussions have moved to a new message board system (and we've stopped accepting new registrations for Builder Buzz). We've received many requests to keep the Builder Buzz message boards open in addition to our new discussions on Builder.com. And we definitely want keep Builder Buzz online, since it's been one of the strongest, most vibrant communities in the history of CNET forums. However in order to cover the costs of continuing to maintain and support Builder Buzz, it's necessary for us to incorporate it into CNET's Quick SiteBuilder (http://cma.zdnet.com/texis/cnetsb/buzzjoin.html?bbid=5db3), a paid Web hosting & e-learning service. So as of today, you can only access the original Builder Buzz message boards and CNET Quick SiteBuilder, complete with Web hosting, advanced site administration tools, and more -- for just $8.95 a month. You can also try the service for 30 days for free (see details below). We understand that this isn't the perfect answer, but the alternative was to close Builder Buzz down and lose everything we've created there. As you're probably well aware, many Web sites are experimenting with a mixture of free and paid content. We will always keep the existing Builder.com content free (including the new message boards) and those who wish to remain on Builder Buzz can elect to join our SiteBuilder service. We hope you'll continue with Builder Buzz and give Quick SiteBuilder a try -- it's a great place for simple or advanced Web production, and includes a complete set of online tools for doing quick sketches and mockups, as well as advanced tools, online reference material and full FTP access. ******** 30 DAY QUICK SITEBUILDER/BUILDER BUZZ FREE TRIAL ********* As a Builder Buzz member, we'd like to extend a special offer 30-day free trial. You can try Quick SiteBuilder's web building and hosting service and get full access to Builder Buzz. Sign up for a 30 day free trial to Quick SiteBuilder and Builder Buzz at: http://cma.zdnet.com/texis/cnetsb/buzzjoin.html?bbid=5db3 ******************************************************************* Thanks for all your support in the Builder Buzz community. If you have any questions, feel free to contact SiteBuilder at: http://cma.zdnet.com/texis/cnetsb/contact.html Thanks, Paul Anderson Senior Editor CNET BUILDER From jtrjtrjtr2001 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 11 05:00:43 2002 From: jtrjtrjtr2001 at yahoo.com (gfgs pedo) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 05:00:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: lsfr with odd charecteristics Message-ID: <20020611120043.7025.qmail@web21208.mail.yahoo.com> hi, Book says, a construction that involved computing LSFR's over a field of 'odd charecteristics' is insecure. Does that mean a register with odd number of bits is insecure which would mean a tap sequence which uses an odd degree polynomial is insecure? Regards Data. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From eresrch at eskimo.com Tue Jun 11 06:34:29 2002 From: eresrch at eskimo.com (Mike Rosing) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 06:34:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Sci Journals, authors, internet In-Reply-To: <200206102253.05718.sfurlong@acmenet.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Jun 2002, Steve Furlong wrote: > Which is especially impressive since some journals not only wanted the > authors to basically give up their copyright but wanted the authors to > pay for publication. > > My experience with scientific journals is more than a few years old. Do > any of youse have personal experience with publishing both several > years ago and recently? Only many years ago - the first paragraph describes what I dealt with then. Has it changed any? Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Tue Jun 11 04:45:15 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 06:45:15 -0500 Subject: CBS News | What Was Terror Suspect Up To? | June 10, 2002 22:53:58 Message-ID: <3D05E2CA.A96F767E@ssz.com> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/06/10/attack/main511671.shtml -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From eresrch at eskimo.com Tue Jun 11 06:46:00 2002 From: eresrch at eskimo.com (Mike Rosing) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 06:46:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: lsfr with odd charecteristics In-Reply-To: <20020611120043.7025.qmail@web21208.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, gfgs pedo wrote: > Book says, a construction that involved computing > LSFR's over a field of 'odd charecteristics' > is insecure. > Does that mean a register with odd number of bits is > insecure which would mean a tap sequence which > uses an odd degree polynomial is insecure? No, if you use bits for coefficients you are still in GF(2^n). What "odd characteristic" means is that you are in GF(p^m) with p odd (say 3 or 5 or 9). So you have a polynomial of the form x^3 + 4x^2 + 3 mod 5 is GF(5^4). 5 is the characteristic of the base field, and since it's odd it's a bad lfsr for crypto. Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike From nobody at remailer.privacy.at Mon Jun 10 23:32:05 2002 From: nobody at remailer.privacy.at (Anonymous) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 08:32:05 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Interview questions for Stefan Brands Message-ID: pkiforum.com is soliciting questions which they will ask in their interview with Dr. Stefan Brands. Mail suggestions to interviewbrands at pkiforum.com. Here is one question submitted: Your technologies could provide for new forms of PKI, credentials, privacy protection, pseudonymity, and digital cash among others. Yet you have aggressively pursued patent protection on your ideas, a relatively uncommon approach among academic cryptographers. David Chaum before you followed a similar strategy of aggressive patenting followed by attempts to commercialize his technologies, which covered many of the same subjects (although generally in a less sophisticated way). His efforts have been a dismal failure, leaving bankruptcy and business collapses in his wake. How do you evaluate your patenting strategy now? Aren't you concerned that you will have a similar lack of success? Would you be willing to consider donating your patents into the public domain in the hopes that they could be exploited by P2P developers and other decentralized, open-source efforts? These are the people who care about privacy, pseudonymity and the other attributes which your technology is so ideally suited to provide. Isn't it possible that this would be the best path to seeing your ideas being put into practice and bringing benefits to society? Thanks very much for your response. From megper at mail.ru Tue Jun 11 06:36:00 2002 From: megper at mail.ru (megper at mail.ru) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 08:36:00 -0500 Subject: Free Traditional & Online Marketing Database Message-ID: <38tb4b.i424lbofdr0k@postino.ch> Would you like to contact millions of people around the world to present your business or product via direct mail, telemarketing, fax broadcasting or email? If you answered "YES", then goto http://65.118.38.251 For More Information. We have a "FREE" Marketing Database Product Offer Waiting For You!!! (Special Offer #AFF2369) If you would like further information emailed to you for "FREE" simply reply to this message with the words "More Information Please" in the subject line. Or contact us directly... DataCom Marketing Corporation 1440 Coral Ridge Dr. #336 Coral Springs, Florida 33071 954-340-1018 voice 954-340-1917 fax copyright @1999-2002 DataCom Marketing Corporation All Rights Reserved. If you would like no further messages from us simply reply to this message with the words "Discontinue" in the subject line. IZ3b -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1882 bytes Desc: not available URL: From unsub-156-2380044 at list2.bravenet.com Tue Jun 11 09:33:25 2002 From: unsub-156-2380044 at list2.bravenet.com (Bravenet News) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 09:33:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Fast-track your career and command higher pay! Message-ID: <20020611163325.9312863F97@list.bravenet.com> Ready to get certified? We've made it faster and more affordable than ever! Take the MCSE Windows 2000 Exam Cram Library (a $179.97 value) for $9.99 with membership in Computer Books Direct and cram your way through all exam objectives! Earn the credentials that identify you as a top IT Professional. This 6 volume and 1 CD-ROM library covers the Core 4 exams, plus 2 top electives, Security Design and Network Design. This set includes: exclusive Cram Sheets, realistic Exam Prep questions to test your knowledge, plus the answers to trick questions that frequently trip up others. It's everything you need to get off and running! Whatever your area of interest - whatever level of expertise - there's no better way to get the computer books you need than from Computer Books Direct. We offer the BEST BOOKS and software for every area of interest - from basic and advanced programming to system and database development, and much more - at the prices you demand. Why wait? Click now for details! http://linktrack.bravenet.com/o.php?id=511 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Bravenet Targeted Offers List To be removed, please visit this page: http://www.bravenet.com/unsub.php?lid=156&type=6&did=2380044 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 5731 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ujm852kr at yahoo.co.kr Mon Jun 10 19:04:52 2002 From: ujm852kr at yahoo.co.kr (바레미소) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 11:04:52 +0900 Subject: [광고] 무좀탈출~~~7일작전~~~ Message-ID: <200206110213.VAA01302@einstein.ssz.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4734 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lillie.coney at acm.org Tue Jun 11 08:37:02 2002 From: lillie.coney at acm.org (Lillie Coney) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 11:37:02 -0400 Subject: Norwegian history database password lost and retrieved Message-ID: After the password for accessing a Norwegian history museum's database catalog for 11,000 books and manuscripts had been lost when the database's steward died, the museum established a competition to recover it. Joachim Eriksson, a Swedish game company programmer, won the race to discover the password (ladepujd, the reverse of the name of the researcher who had created the database). How he arrived at it was not disclosed. [Source: Long-lost password discovered: Norwegian history database cracked with help from the Web, By Robert Lemos, MSNBC, 11 Jun 2002; PGN-ed] Lillie Coney, Public Policy Coordinator, U.S. Association for Computing Machinery Suite 510 2120 L Street, NW Washington, D.C. 20037 1-202-478-6124 From diana_1959 at hotmail.com Tue Jun 11 22:11:26 2002 From: diana_1959 at hotmail.com (diana_1959 at hotmail.com) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 13:11:26 -1600 Subject: Make the BEST Love of your life - GUARANTEED!13191 Message-ID: <00000e5d39be$00003d84$0000799b@cangeo.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 5191 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ben at algroup.co.uk Tue Jun 11 05:55:51 2002 From: ben at algroup.co.uk (Ben Laurie) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 13:55:51 +0100 Subject: Ben's blinding, plus pre-publishing References: Message-ID: <3D05F357.9040702@algroup.co.uk> Jason Holt wrote: > Are the journals going to be snippy about > copyright issues? Most journals don't like papers to have been published elsewhere first. Screw 'em, I say. Cheers, Ben. -- http://www.apache-ssl.org/ben.html http://www.thebunker.net/ "There is no limit to what a man can do or how far he can go if he doesn't mind who gets the credit." - Robert Woodruff From bekir at acmemail.net Tue Jun 11 13:31:10 2002 From: bekir at acmemail.net (bekir at acmemail.net) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:31:10 -0500 Subject: #145,000 Database Records Free Message-ID: <6l1alysvy86dflhq.3paq5b@65-118-38-41.datacommarketing.com> Would you like to contact millions of people around the world to present your business or product via direct mail, telemarketing, fax broadcasting or email? If you answered "YES", then goto http://65.118.38.251 For More Information. We have a "FREE" Marketing Database Product Offer Waiting For You!!! (Special Offer #AFF2369) If you would like further information emailed to you for "FREE" simply reply to this message with the words "More Information Please" in the subject line. Or contact us directly... DataCom Marketing Corporation 1440 Coral Ridge Dr. #336 Coral Springs, Florida 33071 954-340-1018 voice 954-340-1917 fax copyright @1999-2002 DataCom Marketing Corporation All Rights Reserved. If you would like no further messages from us simply reply to this message with the words "Discontinue" in the subject line. IZ3b -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1882 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Tue Jun 11 15:44:40 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 17:44:40 -0500 (CDT) Subject: CNN.com - Device detects cell phone bugs - June 11, 2002 (fwd) Message-ID: http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/ptech/06/11/israel.netline.reut/index.html -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Tue Jun 11 15:44:52 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 17:44:52 -0500 (CDT) Subject: The Register - People chipping company hit by class actions, FDA probe (Oops...) (fwd) Message-ID: http://theregister.co.uk/content/54/25674.html -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Tue Jun 11 15:45:38 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 17:45:38 -0500 (CDT) Subject: ScienceDaily Magazine -- In Evolution Game, Survival Doesn't Equal Success; Finding Has Implications For Future Of Biodiversity (fwd) Message-ID: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/06/020611071328.htm -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Tue Jun 11 15:45:53 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 17:45:53 -0500 (CDT) Subject: kuro5hin.org || America: Broken As Designed (fwd) Message-ID: http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/6/10/204644/205 -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Tue Jun 11 15:46:31 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 17:46:31 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Slashdot | US Govt Wants to Control ICANN? (fwd) Message-ID: http://slashdot.org/articles/02/06/11/1314224.shtml?tid=95 -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Tue Jun 11 15:50:21 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 17:50:21 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Slashdot | Hollow Optical Fibres Can Now Process Signals (fwd) Message-ID: http://science.slashdot.org/science/02/06/11/1850235.shtml?tid=126 -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From lllllllllllIIIIII at yahoo.com Tue Jun 11 15:46:59 2002 From: lllllllllllIIIIII at yahoo.com (Adam Division) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 18:46:59 -0400 Subject: This new pill will make it huge... Message-ID: <200206112242.HAA20647@ns.hokoku-const.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4411 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nt at insurancemail.net Tue Jun 11 16:08:57 2002 From: nt at insurancemail.net (IQ - National Travelers) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 19:08:57 -0400 Subject: The Non-Death Life Policy! Message-ID: <150f9001c2119c$f6bbd330$3201a8c0@insuranceiq.com> The Non-Death Life Policy Critical Illness Life Insurance Increase Your Income: Cash in on the wide open critical illness market Because critical illness insurance gives policyowners immediate access to cash during a medical crisis, it is one of the fastest-growing segments in the industry. Our critical illness products are some of the most comprehensive and competitive in the marketplace. Worksite Marketing Individual Sales ? Guaranteed Issue for Groups of 25+ ? Up to $1,000,000 maximum ? Electronic Enrollment ? Simplified Issue up to $100,000 ? Unlimited billing options ? Up to 75% advance 15 Valuable Benefits 100% of the Face Amount Heart Attack Stroke Invasive Cancer HIV (for Medical Personnel) Paralysis Organ Transplant Severe Burns Loss of Independent Living Terminal Illness Kidney Failure Blindness Death By Any Cause 25% of the Face Amount Coronary Artery Bypass Non-invasive Cancer 10% of the Face Amount Coronary Angioplasty Please fill out the form below for more information Name: Address: City: State: Zip: E-mail: Phone: Area of Interest: Worksite Individual Sales Both Personal Producer Manager Number of Agents ? or ? To learn more, please call us today! 800-626-7980 National Traveler's Life Co. We don't want anyone to receive our mailings who does not wish to. This is professional communication sent to insurance professionals. To be removed from this mailing list, DO NOT REPLY to this message. Instead, go here: http://www.Insurancemail.net Legal Notice -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 12384 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Tue Jun 11 17:30:31 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 19:30:31 -0500 (CDT) Subject: What's with all the spam?... Message-ID: The list has been under 'attack' for a while. There are multiple parties and they don't seem to be working in concert. I base this on the observation, for example, that during the recent group diatribe over 'filter this ...' at one point I received a mass of removal notices from a bunch of spam lists. I'd guesstimate a couple dozen over a two day period (or so). Secondly, that when this happened the total amount of spam dropped considerably (based on intentional eye count of sniffer logs). Then over the last several weeks it has ramped back up to new levels (roughtly 2x the past peak total to date). This is of course on the unfiltered backbone and straight feeds like SSZ. Thirdly, I operate several other lists and by comparing (again roughly) the amount of bounces they get (because the spam source isn't subscribed) plus the total that get through should (my axiom) be about equal to what come into cypherpunks; wich is a harlet of a mailing list. They ain't close. On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Anonymous User wrote: > I mean REALLY... What is one to make of this juxtaposition? > > # CDR: Increase your penis size 25% in 2 weeks., dave650 > * > * CDR: Increase your penis size 25% in 2 weeks., ecm > # CDR: you just cant fulfill meWGNOQSWIDQONO, Maire Lira > # CDR: The Inflation Fighter, IQ -Standard Life Insurance > > > "Life is really fuckin' wierd sometimes, y'know?..." > -- Fat Johnny > ----- > Dr.S > "What, me worry?" > -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From measl at mfn.org Tue Jun 11 18:33:45 2002 From: measl at mfn.org (measl at mfn.org) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 20:33:45 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Nov-L: DEA-Asa misleads the public again (fwd) Message-ID: Date sent: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 09:33:12 -0700 Subject: DEA-Asa misleads the public again Friends: You may recall last week the DEA issued a press release reacting to a DC Court decision on a medical marijuana petition. Asa Hutchison declared that the decision showed that marijuana was a dangerous drug and was properly scheduled. In fact, the Court of Appeals did not rule on the substance of the issue -- instead it solely ruled on the issue of standing -- whether or not Jon Gettman and High Times (the petitioners) could bring suit. In addition, whether marijuana is a dangerous drug or not has nothing to do with its placement in Schedule I. Both Sch I and Sch II drugs have a "high potential for abuse." The only difference between the Schedules is whether there is an "accepted medical use." Certainly, Mr. Hutchison -- a trained attorney -- understands the concept of standing and can read a Court of Appeals decision. He realizes the court did not reach the substance of the issues. So, it seems like he intentionally misled the media and the public. One more deception for the drug warrirors. If they have to be dishonest -- intentionally -- they know they are on weak ground. Kevin -------- November-L is a voluntary mailing list of the November Coalition. To unsubscribe, visit http://www.november.org/lists/ or send a message to november-L-request at november.org containing the command "unsubscribe" From ntl at insurancemail.net Tue Jun 11 18:02:57 2002 From: ntl at insurancemail.net (IQ - National Travelers) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 21:02:57 -0400 Subject: The Non-Death Life Policy! Message-ID: The Non-Death Life Policy Critical Illness Life Insurance Increase Your Income: Cash in on the wide open critical illness market Because critical illness insurance gives policyowners immediate access to cash during a medical crisis, it is one of the fastest-growing segments in the industry. Our critical illness products are some of the most comprehensive and competitive in the marketplace. Worksite Marketing Individual Sales ? Guaranteed Issue for Groups of 25+ ? Up to $1,000,000 maximum ? Electronic Enrollment ? Simplified Issue up to $100,000 ? Unlimited billing options ? Up to 75% advance 15 Valuable Benefits 100% of the Face Amount Heart Attack Stroke Invasive Cancer HIV (for Medical Personnel) Paralysis Organ Transplant Severe Burns Loss of Independent Living Terminal Illness Kidney Failure Blindness Death By Any Cause 25% of the Face Amount Coronary Artery Bypass Non-invasive Cancer 10% of the Face Amount Coronary Angioplasty Please fill out the form below for more information Name: Address: City: State: Zip: E-mail: Phone: Area of Interest: Worksite Individual Sales Both Personal Producer Manager Number of Agents ? or ? To learn more, please call us today! 800-626-7980 National Traveler's Life Co. We don't want anyone to receive our mailings who does not wish to. This is professional communication sent to insurance professionals. To be removed from this mailing list, DO NOT REPLY to this message. Instead, go here: http://www.Insurancemail.net Legal Notice -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 12408 bytes Desc: not available URL: From anonymous at remailer.havenco.com Tue Jun 11 15:58:44 2002 From: anonymous at remailer.havenco.com (Anonymous User) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 22:58:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Amusing CP archives Message-ID: <11a98b2de6d7a258ca3fa2cdc2078d34@remailer.havenco.com> I mean REALLY... What is one to make of this juxtaposition? # CDR: Increase your penis size 25% in 2 weeks., dave650 * * CDR: Increase your penis size 25% in 2 weeks., ecm # CDR: you just cant fulfill meWGNOQSWIDQONO, Maire Lira # CDR: The Inflation Fighter, IQ -Standard Life Insurance "Life is really fuckin' wierd sometimes, y'know?..." -- Fat Johnny ----- Dr.S "What, me worry?" From beautifulskin at time-2-win.com Tue Jun 11 23:46:17 2002 From: beautifulskin at time-2-win.com (Time-2-Win) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 23:46:17 2002 -0700 Subject: BEAUTIFUL SKIN @ DermatologistRx.com !!! Message-ID: <17563503.5981841@mailhost> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 5229 bytes Desc: not available URL: From salesteam at verisign.com Wed Jun 12 02:53:57 2002 From: salesteam at verisign.com (Anna Oliver) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 02:53:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Your 14-Day Trial - (OP5378036) Message-ID: <200206120953.CAA15999@gravity.verisign.com> Dear Joe, Thank you for testing your FREE Trial Secure Server ID. Over the next two weeks, you will see how SSL gives you the power to conduct business online and manage intranets and extranets quickly with maximum-strength security. ************************************************************ When you have completed testing a VeriSign SSL ID, you will need to obtain a full service Server ID in order to continue securing your server with SSL functionality. Follow the 2 easy steps to continue benefiting from VeriSign Secure Server ID: 1. 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INTERNATIONAL CUSTOMERS: We encourage you to obtain your digital certificate through your local VeriSign Affiliate. Please review our list of international affiliates at http://www.verisign.com/international/. You are now enrolled receive our periodic Secure Site E-Newsletter. To update your communication preferences, please visit our Web site at http://www.verisign.com/compref ID=OP5378036 From sanilam2504 at pegasus.isr.uc.pt Wed Jun 12 15:26:35 2002 From: sanilam2504 at pegasus.isr.uc.pt (sanilam2504 at pegasus.isr.uc.pt) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 03:26:35 -1900 Subject: Thank you for your time and interest HOSQVVZ Message-ID: <000005833a36$00003dce$00001390@icem.inin.mx> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3922 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jayh at 1st.net Wed Jun 12 03:36:02 2002 From: jayh at 1st.net (jayh at 1st.net) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 06:36:02 -0400 Subject: The Register - People chipping company hit by class actions, FDA probe (Oops...) (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3D06EBD2.14949.3383A1@localhost> An interesting point and a serious threat to privacy. Alas I would like to see a more reliable source forthcoming than Worldnetdaily. j On 11 Jun 2002 at 17:44, Jim Choate wrote: > > http://theregister.co.uk/content/54/25674.html > > > -- > ____________________________________________________________________ > > When I die, I would like to be born again as me. > > Hugh Hefner > ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com > jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From tom at lemuria.org Tue Jun 11 22:58:49 2002 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 07:58:49 +0200 Subject: What's with all the spam?... In-Reply-To: ; from ravage@ssz.com on Tue, Jun 11, 2002 at 07:30:31PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20020612075848.A8801@lemuria.org> On Tue, Jun 11, 2002 at 07:30:31PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > Secondly, that when this happened the total amount of spam dropped > considerably (based on intentional eye count of sniffer logs). Then over > the last several weeks it has ramped back up to new levels (roughtly 2x > the past peak total to date). This is of course on the unfiltered backbone > and straight feeds like SSZ. speaking of unfiltered - I subscribed to ssz exactly because I don't want to have anyone moderating for me. however, the spam volume is deafening. is there a fee available that is filtered, but only for spam? -- New GPG Key issued (old key expired): http://web.lemuria.org/pubkey.html pub 1024D/2D7A04F5 2002-05-16 Tom Vogt Key fingerprint = C731 64D1 4BCF 4C20 48A4 29B2 BF01 9FA1 2D7A 04F5 From cristy911 at hotmail.com Wed Jun 12 19:30:46 2002 From: cristy911 at hotmail.com (cristy911 at hotmail.com) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 09:30:46 -1700 Subject: Lose 15 Pounds In 7 Days 4079 Message-ID: <000062517971$00005c8c$00004e15@.> Hey there, If you're like me, you've tried EVERYTHING to lose weight.혻 I know how you feel - the special diets, miracle pills, and fancy exercise equipment never helped me lose a pound either.혻 It seemed like the harder I tried, the bigger I got, until I heard about a product called Extreme Power Plus. 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In-Reply-To: <20020612075848.A8801@lemuria.org>; from tom@lemuria.org on Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 07:58:49AM +0200 References: <20020612075848.A8801@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <20020612094118.A22675@slack.lne.com> On Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 07:58:49AM +0200, Tom wrote: > > speaking of unfiltered - I subscribed to ssz exactly because I don't > want to have anyone moderating for me. however, the spam volume is > deafening. The LNE node isn't moderated. All posts from list subscribers, to any CDR, plus any post from a non-subscriber that isn't spam, get sent to LNE subscribers. > is there a fee available that is filtered, but only for spam? LNE qualifies. Eric From houshen2 at sina.com Wed Jun 12 09:47:10 2002 From: houshen2 at sina.com (houshen2) Date: Wed Jun 12, 2002 09:47:10 AM US/Pacific Subject: Dz:C! Message-ID: Dz:C! C0CA at 4PE#,Gk6`<{AB! NR9+K>1>WEN*9zDZVPP!FsR5<08vHKLa9)PT<[1HWnSE5D2zF7#,TZ4KMF3vHgOB2zF7#: 1!"200M#(4?HTML?UV + V'3VASP#,CGI + KMR;9zV + V'3VASP#,CGI#,ACCESS + KMR;9z http://www.logindns.com/ AK=bOjGi#, P;P;! !!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!W#DzBmDj<*Oi!":CTKLlLlSP!"PRTK3#0iKf!!! OCCEJPS/M(T6:=5gWS?F< --------------------------------------------------------------- 7P5cH:7"SJ<~, at 4WTHm<~9$3LW( Message-ID: <7C036CAB-7E27-11D6-9C64-0050E439C473@got.net> On Wednesday, June 12, 2002, at 10:04 AM, Anonymous wrote: > T.C. May writes: > >> Anyone here who has not already done so should immediately type >> "xxx.lanl.gov" into their browser. (No, the "xxx" is not a typo, nor is >> it a porn site.) >> >> This is where physics papers are getting published. The print journals >> are surviving, barely, but I think the handwriting is already on the >> wall. As libraries balk at paying $6000 per year for "Journal of >> Advanced Aptical Foddering" and as the referee system goes online as >> well (*), the print journals will financially fail. Maybe no one will >> notice. >> >> As John Baez has pointed out, most of the grad students he deals with >> never visit the campus library. All papers of interest in cosmology, >> quantum physics, solid state, etc. are being published on the arXhive >> sites. In the last few months, I've been using this system extensively, >> and have downloaded about 2500 pages of PDF files. I know how many >> pages >> because I've printed out most of the papers. Five reams of paper >> later.... > > Brilliant suggestion as usual. This completely un-edited, un-reviewed > archive site accepts submissions from anyone in the world. No, it does not. > > As usual, readers are cautioned to take Tim May's "brilliant insights" > with a very generous grain of salt. > As usual, "Anonymous" is careless in his claims. > --Tim May "Ben Franklin warned us that those who would trade liberty for a little bit of temporary security deserve neither. This is the path we are now racing down, with American flags fluttering."-- Tim May, on events following 9/11/2001 From tcmay at got.net Wed Jun 12 10:15:37 2002 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:15:37 -0700 Subject: What's with all the spam?... In-Reply-To: <20020612094118.A22675@slack.lne.com> Message-ID: <032CA558-7E28-11D6-9C64-0050E439C473@got.net> On Wednesday, June 12, 2002, at 09:41 AM, Eric Murray wrote: > On Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 07:58:49AM +0200, Tom wrote: >> >> speaking of unfiltered - I subscribed to ssz exactly because I don't >> want to have anyone moderating for me. however, the spam volume is >> deafening. > > The LNE node isn't moderated. > All posts from list subscribers, to any CDR, plus > any post from a non-subscriber that isn't spam, get sent to > LNE subscribers. I like the LNE node, but a lot of junk still seems to get through. If Eric is only passing through the posts of subscribers, does this mean this person "houshen2 " is a list subscriber? --Tim --begin spam example-- From Wonder888 at hotmail.com Wed Jun 12 10:23:02 2002 From: Wonder888 at hotmail.com (Wonder888 at hotmail.com) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:23:02 -0700 Subject: Good news for you Message-ID: <200206121720.g5CHKbxX016000@ak47.algebra.com> Note: Your e-mail address was added to a database by you and I have paid to be able to send to that database. If you are not interested in receiving ads similar to mine, please click the link below and opt-out of our mailings. Wow! A club with benefits like Shopping rebates and a business opportunity... And it's free to join! Join the team of Internet Marketing Professionals that are presenting this opportunity to hundreds of people every day! 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You will be BLOCKED from all mail from this site and your request will take effect within 48 hours. ehvpptondvjygaffsdvgjpgkjkfjnwgvy From ericm at lne.com Wed Jun 12 10:26:44 2002 From: ericm at lne.com (Eric Murray) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:26:44 -0700 Subject: What's with all the spam?... In-Reply-To: <032CA558-7E28-11D6-9C64-0050E439C473@got.net>; from tcmay@got.net on Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 10:15:37AM -0700 References: <20020612094118.A22675@slack.lne.com> <032CA558-7E28-11D6-9C64-0050E439C473@got.net> Message-ID: <20020612102644.A23373@slack.lne.com> On Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 10:15:37AM -0700, Tim May wrote: > > I like the LNE node, but a lot of junk still seems to get through. If > Eric is only passing through the posts of subscribers, does this mean > this person "houshen2 " is a list subscriber? [chinese spam deleted] No, that was an error on my part, typing over a high latency connection. 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Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4855 bytes Desc: not available URL: From FBO102 at hotmail.com Wed Jun 12 13:41:18 2002 From: FBO102 at hotmail.com (PN) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 13:41:18 -0700 Subject: Something for everyone Message-ID: <200206122045.PAA31435@einstein.ssz.com> Note: Your e-mail address was added to a database by you and I have paid to be able to send to that database. If you are not interested in receiving ads similar to mine, please click the link below and opt-out of our mailings. Wow! A club with benefits like Shopping rebates and a business opportunity... And it's free to join! Join the team of Internet Marketing Professionals that are presenting this opportunity to hundreds of people every day! You can Join Free http://www.TrueOpp.com/reg As a Free Member you can shop at over 200 online stores like Wal-Mart, Best Buy, Office Max and Pet Smart and receive rebates on all of your purchases and commissions on purchases made by members below you. 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You will be BLOCKED from all mail from this site and your request will take effect within 48 hours. gitigqlttgujpnsoo From francop732111 at aol.com Wed Jun 12 10:57:34 2002 From: francop732111 at aol.com (francop732111 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 13:57:34 -0400 Subject: find you a lower payment 73211110000000000000 Message-ID: <200206121852.CAA26552@localhost.localdomain> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 394 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ahmedsuzo at yahoo.com Wed Jun 12 14:53:01 2002 From: ahmedsuzo at yahoo.com (AHMED GWARZO) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 14:53:01 Subject: VERY URGENT Message-ID: <200206121403.JAA23373@einstein.ssz.com> STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL A REQUEST FOR URGENT ASSISTANCE. TEL: 234 -1-7753581 FROM; AHMED GWARZO. DEAR SIR, MAY THE BLESSINGS OF GOD BE UPON YOU AND GRANT YOUR FAMILY AND YOU THE WISDOM AND SYMPATHY TO UNDERSTAND OUR SITUATION AND HOW MUCH WE NEED YOUR HELP AND ASSISTANCE. I AM THE FIRST SON OF ALHAJI ISMAILA GWARZO,THE FORMER CHIEF SECURITY ADVISER TO THE LATE HEAD OF STATE OF NIGERIA, GEN.SANI ABACHA WHO DIED IN 1998 AS A RESULT OF HEART FAILURE. SINCE THE DEATH OF GEN. ABACHA,AND THE SUBSEQUENT DISSOLUTION OF HIS GOVERNMENT,THE NEW GOVERNMENT OF GEN. OLUSEGUN OBASANJO HAS TURNED AGAINST MY FATHER AND MY FAMILY. AT FIRST,WE THOUGHT IT WAS A NORMAL INTERROGATIONAS MY FATHER SHOULD KNOW ABOUT SOME CONFIDENTIALDEALINGS OF HIS BOSS. LATE GEN.ABACHA OR HARASSMENT FROM ENEMIES HE MADE WHILE IN GOVT. AS THE CHIEF SECURITY OFFICER,BUT WE WERE PROVED WRONG. MY FATHER IS NOW IN DETENTION IN A PRISON IN NIGERIA PENDING THE DETAMINATION OF HIS CASE WHICH IS IN COURT AT THE MOMENT.ALL MY FATHER'S ACCOUNTS AT HOME AND ABROAD KNOWN TO GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN FROZEN TO FRUSTRATE US. IT HAS NOW DAWNED ON US THAT WE HAVE A VERY SERIOUS PROBLEM WITH GEN. OBASANJO'S GOVERNMENT SINCE THEGOVT BELIEVES THAT MY FATHER WAS THE PERSON WHO ROPED GEN. OBASANJO INTO PRISON FOR A FANTHOM COUP CHARGE AS HE NOW WANTS TO GET BACK AT US. MY FATHER'S CLOSEST FRIENDS AND ASSOCIATES HAVE DESERTED AND BETRAYED US AND WE NO LONGER TRUST ANYONE.THEREFORE,I AM REQUESTING FOR YOUR ASSISTANCE AND HELP TO MY FAMILY. RECENTLY, MY FATHER CONFIDED IN ME ABOUT A SECRET DEPOSIT OF USD (US$14.2M) FOURTEEN MILLION TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND UNITED STATES DOLLARS WHICH HE MADETHROUGH DIPLOMATIC COURIER SERVICE TO A SECURITY COMPANY BASED ABROAD ND PLACED ON HOLD. BECAUSE OF LACK OF TRUST ON FRIENDS AND ASSOCIATES,MY FATHER HAS MANDATED ME TO LOOK FOR A TRUSTWORTHY AND SINCERE PERSON WHO COULD HELP US COLLECT THE CONSIGNMENT FROM THE SECURITY COMPANY PENDING THETIME WHEN ONE OF US WILL BE ABLE TO TRAVELL OUT OF THE COUNTRY AND JOIN YOU FOR THE SHARING OF THE FUNDS. HE HAS EQUALLY MANDATED ME TO OFFER TO YOU 20% OFTHE FUNDS FOR YOUR ASSISTANCE. ALL YOU ARE EXPECTED TODO IS TO COLLECT THE DEPOSIT DOCUMENTS FROM ME.THE DOCUMENTS WILL ENABLE YOU COLLECT THE TRUNK BOXESFROM THE SECURITY COMPANY BASED ABROAD ON OUR BEHALF.THERE IS NO RISK WHATSOVER INVOLVED AS ONLY MY FAMILY KNOW ABOUT THIS.OUR OWN SHARE IS TO BE LEFT IN YOUR CARE UNTIL ONE OF US IS ABLE TO FIND HIS WAY OUT OF THE COUNTRY TO OPEN NEW ACCOUNTS .IF YOU ARE INTERESTED, PLEASE SEND THE FOLOWING INFORMATION. (1)YOUR TEL/FAX NUMBERS. (2)YOUR RESIDENTIAL ADDRESS. (3)YOUR INTERNATIONAL PASSPORT FOR IDENTIFICATION. I EXPECT YOUR RESPONSE URGENTLY.PLEASE YOU SHOULDNOTE THAT THIS SUBJECT IS HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL AND SHOULDBE KEPT AT SUCH. BEST REGARDS, AHMED GWARZO. From mondo96 at netzero.net Wed Jun 12 13:55:27 2002 From: mondo96 at netzero.net (mondo96) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 14:55:27 -0600 Subject: WSJ Encrypted Laptop Message-ID: <000801c21253$7c8b88a0$b088059a@yr36> ONLY two more days left to christmas Jimbo This sort of stuff will only go on for a few more years until the distributed process and universal namespace sorts of approaches replace the current paradigms. When that happens losing a laptop will mean nothing because it won't have the data 'on it' in the conventional sense. On Sun, 24 Feb 2002, John Young wrote: > We've noted here the rise in "lost" and "stolen" laptops > containing sensitive and classified information. First, > one or two disappeared while a spook was drunk or > was left behind in a taxi or taken from an unidentified > location. > > Then amazing reports of more losses, the number rising > quickly, finally with surveys revealing hundreds of laptops > have been lost by spooks, cops, senior officals, nuclear > labs, state departments, and so on. Now and then encryption > is mentioned. > > We can see that the lost laptop, and its recent corollary, > the discovered laptop, has become as useful for disinformation > as what is being found in newly revealed secret archives > like those reported today in the Wash Post, "Spies, Lies and > the Distortion of History:" > > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A55522-2002Feb23.html > > To be sure, the flood of lost laptops both diminishes the > credibility of what is on the laptops and increases it. One way > to increase credibility is to claim files are encrypted. > > What we also know is that encrypted files are now a leading > indicator of credibility, along with the shadowy and enticing > methods used to decrypt by unidentified parties, and to then > carefully distribute the decrypted, authenticated thereby, > if demonized, material. > > Whether there is actually sensitive material in the demonized > files is hard to determine so long as access to the original > files, and a credible account of how they were comeby is > not made available. As with the long history of astonishing > revelations of secrets, lies and videotapes. > > Moving to a related topic, is the use of the Internet for > > leaking and/or psyopping disinformation, in particular > the use of honeypots. > > Cryptome is occasionally charged with being a honeypot, > and it could be, wittingly so if we are succesful in putting > up lurid material to bring in more luridities. A question > though is what information is being gathered by Cryptome > honeypot? The access logs, the pattern and content of > publication, the receipt of hot material, the distribution > of lies and deceptions? And if these are the profits of the > honeypot how is the data collection about them being > done? > > We dream of being able to watch the honeypot harvestors > at work, which accounts for admitting to running a honeypot, > our lost laptop if you will. This hoary rabbit-running practice, > you being the rabbit, as we see here with several practitioners, > carries a Daniel Pearl-like risk. You may well lose your head > to somebody who believes you are a wolf not merely a > headgames-player. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4145 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ichudov at Algebra.COM Wed Jun 12 12:56:27 2002 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 14:56:27 -0500 Subject: What's with all the spam?... In-Reply-To: <20020612094118.A22675@slack.lne.com> References: <20020612075848.A8801@lemuria.org> <20020612094118.A22675@slack.lne.com> Message-ID: <20020612195627.GA14491@manifold.algebra.com> algebra.com also qualifies. I have some aggressive spam filtering that generally applies to all mail coming to algebra.com, but I do not yet block ssz.com. igor On Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 09:41:18AM -0700, Eric Murray wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 07:58:49AM +0200, Tom wrote: > > > > speaking of unfiltered - I subscribed to ssz exactly because I don't > > want to have anyone moderating for me. however, the spam volume is > > deafening. > > The LNE node isn't moderated. > All posts from list subscribers, to any CDR, plus > any post from a non-subscriber that isn't spam, get sent to > LNE subscribers. > > > is there a fee available that is filtered, but only for spam? > > LNE qualifies. > > Eric From MO2306_20020605_1022 at link2buy.com Wed Jun 12 15:29:05 2002 From: MO2306_20020605_1022 at link2buy.com (EAASI) Date: Wed Jun 12 15:29:05 PDT 2002 Subject: Access Your PC from Anywhere - Download Now Message-ID: <850218409.1023922094199.mu@link2buy.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 6152 bytes Desc: not available URL: From adam at cypherspace.org Wed Jun 12 07:39:16 2002 From: adam at cypherspace.org (Adam Back) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 15:39:16 +0100 Subject: What's with all the spam?... In-Reply-To: <20020612075848.A8801@lemuria.org>; from tom@lemuria.org on Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 07:58:49AM +0200 References: <20020612075848.A8801@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <20020612153916.A656475@exeter.ac.uk> On Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 07:58:49AM +0200, Tom wrote: > speaking of unfiltered - I subscribed to ssz exactly because I don't > want to have anyone moderating for me. however, the spam volume is > deafening. > > is there a fee available that is filtered, but only for spam? cypherpunks-moderated at minder.net is quite close to that. The moderation policy is: - obvious spam gets dropped. - one-line pointers to news articles will tend to get dropped. - news articles posted in full without comment will tend to get dropped. - content will tend to get passed, even if it's off-the-wall (eg. Xenix Chainsaw Massacre). - submissions from high signal posters will tend to get passed. - the list is read-only. submissions should go to cypherpunks at minder.net or another CDR node. - cypherpunks at minder.net will remain unfiltered and unmoderated. To subscribe, send the text "subscribe cypherpunks-moderated" to majordomo at minder.net. it's archived here: http://www.mail-archive.com/cypherpunks-moderated at minder.net/ Adam From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Jun 12 14:54:05 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 16:54:05 -0500 (CDT) Subject: CNN.com - Lawyer: 'Dirty bomb' suspect's rights violated - June 12, 2002 (fwd) Message-ID: http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/06/12/dirty.bomb.suspect/index.html -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Jun 12 14:54:57 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 16:54:57 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Democrats suspicious of arrest announcement -- The Washington Times (fwd) Message-ID: http://www.washtimes.com/national/20020612-826057.htm -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Jun 12 14:55:11 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 16:55:11 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Suspect Held 8 Months Without Seeing Judge (washingtonpost.com) (fwd) Message-ID: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A34822-2002Jun11.html -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Jun 12 14:55:25 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 16:55:25 -0500 (CDT) Subject: United Press International: Pakistan: More Americans arrested (fwd) Message-ID: http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=11062002-055122-5978r -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Jun 12 14:56:06 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 16:56:06 -0500 (CDT) Subject: FT.com Home US - US demands jeopardise Milosevic's war trial (fwd) Message-ID: http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=FT.com/StoryFT/FullStory&c=StoryFT&cid=1023676035253&p=1012571727088 -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Jun 12 14:56:47 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 16:56:47 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Sniffer rats stand up to smuggling (fwd) Message-ID: http://www.nature.com/nsu/020603/020603-12.html -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Jun 12 14:57:39 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 16:57:39 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Slashdot | Will Cable Unplug the File Swappers? (fwd) Message-ID: http://slashdot.org/articles/02/06/12/1331252.shtml?tid=95 -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Jun 12 14:58:20 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 16:58:20 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Scientific American: Light's Information-Carrying Capacity Doubles (fwd) Message-ID: http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000E7D49-4ADD-1D06-8E49809EC588EEDF&catID=1 -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jgiye at yahoo.co.kr Wed Jun 12 00:58:40 2002 From: jgiye at yahoo.co.kr (솔로카페) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 16:58:40 +0900 Subject: [광고]빠르고 안전한 대출전문포탈.. 돈오케이넷 Message-ID: <200206112003.PAA10918@einstein.ssz.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2164 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Jun 12 14:58:51 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 16:58:51 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Scientific American: URLs in Urdu? (fwd) Message-ID: http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=0005D6A3-3B91-1CDC-B4A8809EC588EEDF&catID=2 -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Jun 12 15:03:42 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 17:03:42 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Slashdot | What Is Public Domain? (fwd) Message-ID: http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/02/06/12/1648222.shtml?tid=156 -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From mailer at mailer.prospero.com Wed Jun 12 14:05:28 2002 From: mailer at mailer.prospero.com (Delphi Forums) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 17:05:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Delphi Forums Member Update (Membername: cypherpunks9) Message-ID: <76C226225527@msx6.prospero.com> Delphi Forums Member Update

     We are pleased to update you with the progress we've been making here at Delphi Forums. The following is a list of past issues that have either been resolved or for which we are making great progress:

It혪s here! Fresh out of beta testing, our new three-tier system, including DelphiPlus, DelphiAdvanced, and DelphiBasic, is nearly ready for release. DelphiPlus includes several new features and benefits and costs just $4.95 per month. DelphiAdvanced is just $1.29 per month and includes exist ing Delphi Forums functionality, no advertising, access to Delphi University courses, and unlimited listening privileges on DelphiCast. DelphiBasic is our free service and provides simple functionality and access.

The number one request by the Delphi community has been for a world-class, reliable chat product. We worked for some time to fix our existing chat and made the determination to build an entirely new version. Our new chat system has been in beta testing for several weeks and is nearly ready for release. We believe it is the finest chat product on the market. It is stable, robust, and feature rich. You will notice no difference in function other than improved speed and reliability. Have fun; Delphi chat is a remarkable experience.

After a bumpy start, eGems is now run ning and downloading flawlessly and is available FREE to DelphiPlus members. Become a DelphiPlus member now and experience this award-winning product.

DelphiCast is currently in beta testin g. Forum hosts can broadcast live voice shows complete with sound effects and control booth features. DelphiAdvanced members can listen, and DelphiPlus members can participate by calling-in. And it's all done over the Internet. The applications of this service are unlimited.

New courses are currently in developme nt. Courses in Finance, Human Relations, and Health and Nutrition will be released first. Courses will include discussions, FREE Quick Courses and chat (for DelphiPlus and DelphiAdvanced members), as well as interactive scheduled courses with instructors and students. DelphiPlus and DelphiAdvanced members will also enjoy FREE live broadcasts by world-renowned experts, guests, and celebrities. Get ready for DelphiU!
Delphi Executive Council - The nine members of the new Delphi Executive Council ga thered at the first annual DEC meeting held in Salt Lake City May 2nd, 3rd and 4th. The meetings were a tremendous success. Council members accepted assignments in six categories including: Technology, Member Services, Host Support, Marketing and Promoti ons, Games and Entertainment (DelphiGame Network), and Delphi University. For more information about the DEC click here.

Community Council - Our Executive Council is selecting members to serve on committees with in the six categories above. Committee members will comprise the Delphi Community Council. Input from these representatives across Delphi will provide great insight as we develop new products and services.

New Hosts Forum - Delphi Forums is committed to excellent member support. In an effort to better help Delphi Forums' lifeblood, our forum hosts, we are starting a new forum dedicated to assisting Hosts. This forum will replace Forumoperator. The new Hosts forum will open on June 17, 2002. The address is http://forums.delphiforums.com/Hosts or for more information, click here.
The new three-tier system is on schedule for release within the next two weeks. If you haven't done so already, you will need to select a Plus or Advanced subscription in order to maintain your current level of service, or you will be migrated to our free DelphiBasic service. Click one of the links to activate your enhanced Delphi Forums subscription.
This message is being sent to registered members of Delphi Forums (www.delphiforums.com). If you have received this message in error or no longer wish to be sent information about your Delphi Forums Membership, simply reply to this message with the word REMOVE as the subject.
-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 13925 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Jun 12 15:06:53 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 17:06:53 -0500 (CDT) Subject: The Register - Credit card hackers stung with bogus IIS exploit (fwd) Message-ID: http://theregister.co.uk/content/55/25692.html -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Jun 12 15:07:36 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 17:07:36 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Study offers a rare view of how species interactions evolve (fwd) Message-ID: http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2002-06/uoc--soa061002.php -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Jun 12 15:08:21 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 17:08:21 -0500 (CDT) Subject: kuro5hin.org || Abu Sayyaf - Where did they come from? (fwd) Message-ID: http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/6/11/141643/563 -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From vab at insurancemail.net Wed Jun 12 14:19:04 2002 From: vab at insurancemail.net (IQ - Virtual Annuity Brokers) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 17:19:04 -0400 Subject: Double Your Sales for $1 a Day? Message-ID: <366cd01c21256$c7d026b0$3201a8c0@insuranceiq.com> Double your sales for $1 a day? Virtual Annuity Brokers can get you there! Are you looking for comprehensive Annuity Quotes? The most compelling case for big ticket sales are based on thorough and objective data. To have these resources available to you and your clients on your own web site please go to VirtualAnnuityBrokers.com . You need to visit the site Wall Street Journal frequently mentions as an industry standard and resource. VirtualAnnuityBrokers.com VirtualAnnuityBrokers.com provides comprehensive annuity data and a state specific quoting system. The technology behind VirtualAnnuityBrokers.com has been providing experts in the industry reliable data over the web since 1995. Call or e-mail us today! 800-239-4840 ? or ? Please fill out the form below for more information Name: E-mail: Phone: City: State: Click here to visit us online:www.virtualannuitybrokers.com We don't want anyone to receive our mailings who does not wish to. This is professional communication sent to insurance professionals. To be removed from this mailing list, DO NOT REPLY to this message. Instead, go here: http://www.Insurancemail.net Legal Notice -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 6466 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nobody at remailer.privacy.at Wed Jun 12 10:04:04 2002 From: nobody at remailer.privacy.at (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 19:04:04 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Sci Journals, authors, internet Message-ID: T.C. May writes: > Anyone here who has not already done so should immediately type > "xxx.lanl.gov" into their browser. (No, the "xxx" is not a typo, nor is > it a porn site.) > > This is where physics papers are getting published. The print journals > are surviving, barely, but I think the handwriting is already on the > wall. As libraries balk at paying $6000 per year for "Journal of > Advanced Aptical Foddering" and as the referee system goes online as > well (*), the print journals will financially fail. Maybe no one will > notice. > > As John Baez has pointed out, most of the grad students he deals with > never visit the campus library. All papers of interest in cosmology, > quantum physics, solid state, etc. are being published on the arXhive > sites. In the last few months, I've been using this system extensively, > and have downloaded about 2500 pages of PDF files. I know how many pages > because I've printed out most of the papers. Five reams of paper > later.... Brilliant suggestion as usual. This completely un-edited, un-reviewed archive site accepts submissions from anyone in the world. One might as well learn physics from Jim Choate. I wonder if Tim May's extensive archive of printed papers includes such gems as these from xxx.lanl.gov: http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/physics/0205055 This one explains that general relativity is all wrong to attribute gravity to curved spacetime, and cosmological red-shift to expansion. It shows how to get these effects from a flat spacetime geometry. http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/quant-ph/0204008 "We found a fundamental principle, the law of statistical balance in nature, that specifies quantum statistical theory among all other statistical theories of measurements. This principle plays in quantum theory the role that is similar to the role of Einstein's relativity principle." http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/hep-th/0201115 This astonishing paper tells what happens before the Big Bang. During the pre-universe the vacuum evolves through four stages before producing the universe we see. "The periodic table of elementary particles is constructed to account for all elementary particles and their masses in a good agreement with the observed values." This is the holy grail of modern physics - a theory that explains the subatomic particle zoo! Definitely a must-have for Tim May's collection. Clearly every one of these results would be shattering to the modern physics paradigm, if true. Tim May's advice puts readers at risk of accepting the most absurd theories without any way of evaluating their accuracy. There is a reason why the peer review process and the academic journals are still needed. Online preprint archives are useless for the layman. Only experts can use these archives with safety; they are able to sift the wheat from the chaff. As usual, readers are cautioned to take Tim May's "brilliant insights" with a very generous grain of salt. From measl at mfn.org Wed Jun 12 17:09:17 2002 From: measl at mfn.org (measl at mfn.org) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 19:09:17 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Of interest to many of you. Message-ID: >From an LEO friend: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 19:08:51 -0400 From: XXX at ZZZ-YYYY.com To: measl at mfn.org Sgt. Kevin Miller of the Detroit Police department has a plan for preventing violence. He wants school officials to ask kids what kinds of guns their parents keep at home and how they are stored, and he thinks that some parents should be reported to Child Protective Services based on these interrogations of minors without their parents' knowledge. Read about it at The Detroit Free Press site, http://www.freep.com/news/metro/nriley2_20020602.htm -- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin at mfn.org If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 19:08:51 -0400 From: CrystalRun at aol.com To: measl at mfn.org Subject: Re: FC: How to patent a Harvard scientist (his parents' idea) (fwd) Sgt. Kevin Miller of the Detroit Police department has a plan for preventing violence. He wants school officials to ask kids what kinds of guns their parents keep at home and how they are stored, and he thinks that some parents should be reported to Child Protective Services based on these interrogations of minors without their parents' knowledge. Read about it at The Detroit Free Press site, http://www.freep.com/news/metro/nriley2_20020602.htm From R-quint at planet.nl Wed Jun 12 10:27:46 2002 From: R-quint at planet.nl (Remco) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 19:27:46 +0200 Subject: chip reset 4100 Message-ID: <000801c21236$77f3b730$9600000a@remcoobzdw5w2y> could you send me some additional info about the chip development? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 372 bytes Desc: not available URL: From carlo at wirelesscellutions.com Wed Jun 12 18:45:45 2002 From: carlo at wirelesscellutions.com (Carlo Rodriguez) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 20:46:45 -0459 Subject: Handset Inventory! Message-ID: <200206122117656.SM00856@carlo> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 15821 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fightingkorea4976 at lycos.co.kr Wed Jun 12 06:32:51 2002 From: fightingkorea4976 at lycos.co.kr (박정규) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 22:32:51 +0900 Subject: ［광고］월드컵 좋아하시는분!! 공짜경품 받아가세요!!! 월드컵경품대잔치 Message-ID: <200206121339.IAA23053@einstein.ssz.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4766 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Jun 12 21:46:04 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 23:46:04 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Pentagon OSI. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Feb 2002, Aimee Farr wrote: > Great bloodshedding that "never happened" -- due to diplomacy and deception. > War is the means, not the ends. No, it's diplomacy by other means. War is only one means, not 'the' means as this would indicate. > Americans seem to confuse the two -- a Code Duello Culture. Well their political leaders do anyway. Not sure if it's consistent to equate the American people with their leaders. > The objective is to get the enemy to do our will. There is usually no single objective. Further, if your goal is anything other than peaceful co-existance any distinction between you and the enemy is specious. > "The enemy" is just an antagonistic interest, not "a country," as we have > been conditioned to think. Specious distinction. The agent pursuing the 'antagonistic interest' is a country in most cases (at least at the scale you are speaking of). > That embodies a range of choices, but perception > management, even if it involves deception, should be preferred to battle. Yeah, it's called politics. Stating the obvious again. -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Jun 12 21:57:10 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 23:57:10 -0500 Subject: Slashdot | Live via Satellite: NATO Aerial Surveillance Video (Encryption, Bandwidth) Message-ID: <3D082626.621D4440@ssz.com> http://slashdot.org/articles/02/06/13/028213.shtml?tid=172 -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Jun 12 22:19:15 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 00:19:15 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Reformatted] EuroNazis want to ban thoughtcrime In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Feb 2002, Eugene Leitl wrote: > Let's recapitulate. We have a downunder nutcase who's using this public > resource for private dumping ground, while posting *a lot* (including > profanity and casual death threats, iirc) and constantly changing his > email address, thus avoiding filtering. > > I don't propose the list policy to be changed, this particular forum > should be unmoderated. However, complaining to Matt's ISP (whose terms > he's clearly in violation with) and some grassroot pressure (if there are > 100 people on his list willing to send back each of his messages 10x, he's > dealing with a 1000x amplification factor on each and single of his > messages) seems to be in order. > > Does anyone see anything wrong with this plan? Yes, a major problem. Why are you to decide what is or is not relevant to the other list members? Why is it that instead of managing your own mailbox, and in the process promoting general peace (which you seem to be promoting by homogenizing the discussion in this forum), instead you feel it is better than your belief of what is or isn't relevant should be applied to all of us? It is clear you are not willing to allow us to reciprocate and decide what goes in your mailbox? So much for CACL individualism... The CACL Cypherpunk Contengent (CACL-CC ?) are a funny bunch. They promote freedom of speech and action based around individual choice. Yet when put in a position of conflict they use the same old 'force it all into one mold' strategies that they (supposedly) rail against. Why is it this contengent is the first to call for banning and filtering en masse? How odd. -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Jun 12 22:28:02 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 00:28:02 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Reformatted] Eugene Leitl want to ban thoughtcrime, In-Reply-To: <20020223123352.C6697@cluebot.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Feb 2002, Declan McCullagh wrote: > This is the last mattd post I'll see for a while, I expect, since I've > updated my kill.rc file. But the prospect of a cypherpunks subscriber > threatening to send 2 MB attachments to the list is not a pleasant one. Why? They make 80G drives now for very cheap. Got a little pipe, get a bigger one. The only persons who should shudder at 2M attachments are the node operators. They have to deal with n*2M of traffic as compared to your measly 2M. Quite your whinning. > (I suspect that majordomo will refuse to send anything above its default > setting, which I'm not going to name since it'll encourage the mattd troll > to hit that size and nothing above. But Still.) 400000 bytes maximum. The current maximum that has been agreed too informally (it's in the archives if you want to look) is 1M. SSZ is currently set to bounce any emails over 1M (and it's detailed on the homepage). -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody at cypherpunks.to Wed Jun 12 15:29:04 2002 From: nobody at cypherpunks.to (Anonymous via the Cypherpunks Tonga Remailer) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 00:29:04 +0200 (CEST) Subject: From the recent past of Homeland defense Message-ID: <9bacc3e872f1130932598fdc7efcac95@cypherpunks.to> http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_2033000/2033324.stm A new book reveals the 22-year effort by FBI director J Edgar Hoover to get Albert Einstein arrested as a political subversive or even a Soviet spy. Uncovered FBI files are revealed in a book by Fred Jerome who says it was a clash of cultures - Einstein's challenge and change with Hoover's order and obedience. >From the time Einstein arrived in the US in 1933 to the time of his death, in 1955, the FBI files reveal that his phone was tapped, his mail was opened and even his trash searched. (if only they had Osama) From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Jun 12 22:42:13 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 00:42:13 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Snitch jamesd outs himself. In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20020224070547.00a03150@mail.nex.com.au> Message-ID: As an operator of one of the nodes, versus somebody who is just a subscriber, I'll be happy to state that while clearly a waste of anybody with a clues time the submissions are not distruptive to the list. Nor or they spam. They are within the charter of cryptography (and related technologies), civil liberties, and economics. This includes technical pieces, speculative pieces, opinion pieces, etc. I've yet to see a threat. A lot of personal opinion and taunts, but no threat. Got an example? Something like "Kill the President" is not a threat. 'The' list is unfiltered, individual nodes may be. Your claim we can't filter him out is specious; we don't want to filter anyone (do you understand this point yet? Geesh) that's your(!!!) job (I know you don't get this one). To attack somebody through their ISP via false claims of abuse for no reason other than they piss you off is the epitome of chicken shit behaviour. It's also another excellent example of what hypocrites the majority of CACL mouthpieces are. -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- On Sun, 24 Feb 2002, matt taylor wrote: > Do they WANT me to keep changing my address?Do I have to write to every > fuckwit I've beaten in debate when I change ISP's.Fucking stalkers,fuck off > and die.This just in... > > To: support at nex.net.au Subject: Re: Youth in Asia CC: profrv at nex.com.au > Someone who appears to be posting from a nex.net.au address > keeps posting large volumes of spam, > obcenity, death threats to random people, mail bombs, and so forth > to our mailing list. He keeps changing his apparent address, so > we have difficulty filtering him out. > His postings were originally merely excessive and of doubtful > relevance, but have become more and more hostile and harassing. > > On 24 Feb 2002, at 5:29, matt taylor wrote: > > Youth In Asia Society: At our last monthly meeting, we discussed all of the > > reasons there are not to KILL THE PRESIDENT. We think it is our duty to > > inform people of our objection to those who believe it is necessary to KILL > > THE PRESIDENT. We also object to people who are constantly running around, > > shouting, incessantly, "KILL THE PRESIDENT! KILL THE PRESIDENT! KILL THE > > PRESIDENT! KILL THE PRESIDENT! KILL THE PRESIDENT! KILL THE PRESIDENT! KILL > > THE PRESIDENT! KILL THE PRESIDENT! KILL THE PRESIDENT! KILL THE PRESIDENT! > > KILL THE PRESIDENT! KILL THE PRESIDENT! KILL THE PRESIDENT!" We think that > > this is rude. So we would ask you please not to KILL THE PRESIDENT! We > > don't want you to KILL THE PRESIDENT! We think it is inadvisable for you to > > KILL THE PRESIDENT! We certainly hope that you won't KILL THE PRESIDENT! We > > hope that no one you know decides to KILL THE PRESIDENT! We are dedicated > > in our efforts to convince people not to KILL THE PRESIDENT! We think that > > we will be successful in our efforts to convince people not to KILL THE > > PRESIDENT! We don't ask to be thanked for advising people not to KILL THE > > PRESIDENT! Nor do we expect to be thanked for advising people not to run > > around incessantly screaming "KILL THE PRESIDENT! KILL THE PRESIDENT! KILL > > THE PRESIDENT! KILL THE PRESIDENT! KILL THE PRESIDENT! KILL THE PRESIDENT! > > KILL THE PRESIDENT! KILL THE PRESIDENT! KILL THE PRESIDENT! KILL THE > > PRESIDENT! KILL THE PRESIDENT! KILL THE PRESIDENT! KILL THE PRESIDENT! KILL > > THE PRESIDENT! KILL THE PRESIDENT! KILL THE PRESIDENT! KILL THE PRESIDENT! > > KILL THE PRESIDENT! KILL THE PRESIDENT! KILL THE PRESIDENT! KILL THE > > PRESIDENT! KILL THE PRESIDENT! KILL THE PRESIDENT!" That's why we post > > anonymously. We're humble. > > > I responded... > To: jamesd at echeque.com Subject: Re: Youth in Asia Cc: support at nex.net.au > > > This particular message is a copy from the archives of this list,not only > was it relevant to a recent thread RE list censorship being taken on by > self elected list cops but it belongs to a collection I'm gathering for an > article I'm planning. > I'm an entertainment journalist.jamesd is a notorious liar having an entire > website devoted to that topic.http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9879/jamesd.html > He admits to spending 6 years in Maoist and Trotskyist lying,violent > subversive parties,that, I can believe. > (He is entertaining though) Please > don't contribute to the closure of a once vigorous debating forum.Thanks. > > > From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Jun 12 22:58:25 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 00:58:25 -0500 (CDT) Subject: WSJ Encrypted Laptop In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This sort of stuff will only go on for a few more years until the distributed process and universal namespace sorts of approaches replace the current paradigms. When that happens losing a laptop will mean nothing because it won't have the data 'on it' in the conventional sense. On Sun, 24 Feb 2002, John Young wrote: > We've noted here the rise in "lost" and "stolen" laptops > containing sensitive and classified information. First, > one or two disappeared while a spook was drunk or > was left behind in a taxi or taken from an unidentified > location. > > Then amazing reports of more losses, the number rising > quickly, finally with surveys revealing hundreds of laptops > have been lost by spooks, cops, senior officals, nuclear > labs, state departments, and so on. Now and then encryption > is mentioned. > > We can see that the lost laptop, and its recent corollary, > the discovered laptop, has become as useful for disinformation > as what is being found in newly revealed secret archives > like those reported today in the Wash Post, "Spies, Lies and > the Distortion of History:" > > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A55522-2002Feb23.html > > To be sure, the flood of lost laptops both diminishes the > credibility of what is on the laptops and increases it. One way > to increase credibility is to claim files are encrypted. > > What we also know is that encrypted files are now a leading > indicator of credibility, along with the shadowy and enticing > methods used to decrypt by unidentified parties, and to then > carefully distribute the decrypted, authenticated thereby, > if demonized, material. > > Whether there is actually sensitive material in the demonized > files is hard to determine so long as access to the original > files, and a credible account of how they were comeby is > not made available. As with the long history of astonishing > revelations of secrets, lies and videotapes. > > Moving to a related topic, is the use of the Internet for > > leaking and/or psyopping disinformation, in particular > the use of honeypots. > > Cryptome is occasionally charged with being a honeypot, > and it could be, wittingly so if we are succesful in putting > up lurid material to bring in more luridities. A question > though is what information is being gathered by Cryptome > honeypot? The access logs, the pattern and content of > publication, the receipt of hot material, the distribution > of lies and deceptions? And if these are the profits of the > honeypot how is the data collection about them being > done? > > We dream of being able to watch the honeypot harvestors > at work, which accounts for admitting to running a honeypot, > our lost laptop if you will. This hoary rabbit-running practice, > you being the rabbit, as we see here with several practitioners, > carries a Daniel Pearl-like risk. You may well lose your head > to somebody who believes you are a wolf not merely a > headgames-player. > From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Jun 12 23:02:03 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 01:02:03 -0500 (CDT) Subject: WSJ Encrypted Laptop In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 24 Feb 2002, Aimee Farr wrote: > I question how well we correlate strike, protest, subversive > activity/agitation/propaganda, and sabotage/IW inferences these days -- > especially at home, due to domestic constraints. I would think that would > keep a "war room" quite busy with inference scanning. With today's > coordination, it's possible to see shadows of influence, instead of "just > our imagination." Considering the level of inside agents and provocateurs, not only for this sort of stuff but tax evasion and monopolies; pretty damn good I'd guess. Or are you proposing that the FBI agent who provokes an illegal act is also working for somebody besides the FBI? Not likely at the scale you would suggest. Or perhaps you mean that the people in the unions are being infiltraited without the FBI knowing? I suspect that when they run the various background checks they get a clue (assuming they did them and reviewed them). -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Thu Jun 13 01:22:25 2002 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 01:22:25 -0700 Subject: Sci Journals, authors, internet In-Reply-To: <200206130313.PAA10125@ruru.cs.auckland.ac.nz> Message-ID: <005201c212b3$73c3e860$0100a8c0@LUCKYVAIO> Peter wrote: > (Hmm, I wonder if it can be argued that making stuff intended > for public distribution inaccessible violates the creator's > moral rights? I know that doesn't apply in the US, but in > other countries it might work. Moral rights can't be > assigned, so no publisher can take that away from you. Peter has an interesting point, since in addition to common law applies to a trend in copyright that is prevalent in Europe (and presumably some other countries), but rather alien to the US, taking that trend further. For those readers not familiar with this trend, there is the gist of it: Everybody on this list knows that what buyers of bit strings may or not do with such bit strings, under pain of incarceration and, should you resist that effectively, death, is under global attack by the MPAA and its cohorts. What US observers are frequently less aware of is that the same right is as much under attack, albeit for very different reasons, by the European cultural elite which has been as effective as the MPAA in working on their shared goal of dismantling what in the US would be called the doctrine of first sale. In brief, this doctrine states that if you buy a book, painting, or DVD, you may read or watch it for as many times as you please (including not at all), loan it to your friends, donate it to a library, sell it to somebody else, or chuck it out with the trash. The MPAA desires to dismantle the doctrine of first sale for the easily understandable reason that the MPAA's members would like to approximate as closely as possible to a state in which each person watching a movie has to pay the studios each time the DVD is watched. If the technology existed at a cost acceptable for a consumer device to count the number of people present in a room watching a particular DVD, the MPAA likely would lobby Congress to mandate that technology's inclusion to permit for the collection of per-watcher/watching licensing fees. The other half of the shears cutting away at the public's right to entertain themselves with the artwork they purchased in any way they please is represented by parts of the art culture of significant political clout, in particular in Europe. Bills are pending or have already passed, that make it illegal for a buyer of a work of art to simply dispose of the work, or use it as kindling in his fireplace, once he no longer desires to own it. No, you can't just burn that painting you bought from some street corner painter five years ago. Though you are permitted to give the painting back to the artist. Without compensation, of course. Between the corporate objective of charging the readers of a book each time they read it and the elitist objective of forcing the buyer to read a book they bought at least on occasion, with both groups united in their zeal to impose their respective view points onto the public by force of law and the men with sub-machine guns the law employs, the future of copyright proves to be interesting. But you already knew that part. While the European art circles clamoring for such moral right protection acts would undoubtedly denounce the assertion that they are working hand in glove with the MPAA's objective of dismantling the doctrine of first sale to the detriment of society, the two groups in fact are natural allies or pawns, depending on their level of awareness of the situation. Undoubtedly this has not been overlooked by the MPAA, though I suspect the European artists are blissfully unaware of how they have helped and continue to help to grease the MPAA's skids. --Lucky From eresrch at eskimo.com Thu Jun 13 06:27:04 2002 From: eresrch at eskimo.com (Mike Rosing) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 06:27:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Sci Journals, authors, internet In-Reply-To: <005201c212b3$73c3e860$0100a8c0@LUCKYVAIO> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Lucky Green wrote: > The other half of the shears cutting away at the public's right to > entertain themselves with the artwork they purchased in any way they > please is represented by parts of the art culture of significant > political clout, in particular in Europe. Bills are pending or have > already passed, that make it illegal for a buyer of a work of art to > simply dispose of the work, or use it as kindling in his fireplace, once > he no longer desires to own it. No, you can't just burn that painting > you bought from some street corner painter five years ago. Though you > are permitted to give the painting back to the artist. Without > compensation, of course. the american artists are also trying to get this kind of "right" in place for themselves. The perspective isn't so much copyright as it is "leave it alone forever". But it amounts to the same thing. > While the European art circles clamoring for such moral right protection > acts would undoubtedly denounce the assertion that they are working hand > in glove with the MPAA's objective of dismantling the doctrine of first > sale to the detriment of society, the two groups in fact are natural > allies or pawns, depending on their level of awareness of the situation. > Undoubtedly this has not been overlooked by the MPAA, though I suspect > the European artists are blissfully unaware of how they have helped and > continue to help to grease the MPAA's skids. The american artists are certainly unaware of the connection. If the law forces the end to "art", is that such a bad thing? :-) Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike From eresrch at eskimo.com Thu Jun 13 07:45:18 2002 From: eresrch at eskimo.com (Mike Rosing) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 07:45:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Sci Journals, authors, internet In-Reply-To: <20020613160657.A14705@lemuria.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Tom wrote: > actually, as with most laws, the basic idea behind the "moral rights" > isn't that bad, it just got perverted. > > if used differently, the "morale rights" part could well be used to put > a limit on the corporate abuse of copyright. for example, I could > envision an argument that an artist sues the RIAA for abusing his > copyrighted works for bogus lawsuits against P2P systems. I guess the argument would boil down to who has copyright and who or what has "moral right". For sculpture and painting the duplication rights are kind of obvious, but the destruction/use/"first sale" is complicated. For digital art/music duplication rights are complicated, and use in other works ("fair use") gets really messy. And if I take a digital photo (well many pictures) of a sculpture and reconstruct it in a 3D virtual world, is that "fair use" or copyright violation? Blech, this is gonna get worse before it gets better! Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike From InsightontheNews at broadbandpublisher.com Thu Jun 13 06:29:41 2002 From: InsightontheNews at broadbandpublisher.com (Insight on the News) Date: 13 Jun 2002 09:29:41 -0400 Subject: Insight on the News Email Edition Message-ID: <200206130930345.SM01140@broadbandpublisher.com> INSIGHT NEWS ALERT! New Stories From Insight on the News Are Now Online. http://www.insightmag.com ............................................... Folks, we dug up some unbelievable al Qaeda stories this week. Richard Tomkins will set Americans to scratching their heads again with his report on how the Pakistanis have arrested six more Americans for being Taliban or al Qaeda fighters. http://www.insightmag.com/news/255573.html And it seems that the U.S. and Iran are having secret confabs again over Iran占퐏 support for al Qaeda and some overdue U.S. weapons deliveries. http://www.insightmag.com/news/255572.html. That占퐏 it for this week. Until next time, from The Bunker, I remain your newsman in Washington. ............................................... PAKISTAN: MORE AL QAEDA AMERICANS ARRESTED? Richard Tomkins and Anwar Iqbal reveal that as many as a half-dozen men "of U.S. origin" have been captured in the tribal areas of Pakistan. http://www.insightmag.com/news/255573.html ............................................... IRAN, RUSSIA AGAIN ARGUE OVER NUKES Ken Timmerman reports that the dispute is now focused on a Russian assertion that Iran has already obtained nuclear weapons. http://www.insightmag.com/news/255399.html ............................................... ANNOUNCING THE 占폛IRTY NUKE占� TERRORIST. . . . .IT占폮 ALL IN THE TIMING Jamie Dettmer takes a hard look at the politics behind Ashcroft's annoucement. http://www.insightmag.com/news/255300.html ======================================== Stage Set for GOLD Rally! Report from The Wall Street Journal reveals limited-time investment opportunity. http://etools.ncol.com/a/jgroup/bg_wwwgoldcentralcom_wwwinsightmagcom_15.html ======================================== SECRET US-IRAN TALKS. . . . .CAN WE CALL IT A MEETING? Richard Sale asks: Did the two sides meet? http://www.insightmag.com/news/255572.html ............................................... IT占폮 THE LATEST. . . . .COMMUNIST HIP-HOP Brent Bozell writes that a piece by David Segal of the Washington Post inadvertently reminded us of a time when our primary foe was communism 占� and that not a few journalists were oblivious to the wretched nature of this movement. http://www.insightmag.com/news/255109.html ======================================== SUBSCRIBE TO THE INSIGHT PRINT EDITION TODAY! And Save 72% (Off Our Newsstand Price) https://www.collegepublisher.com/insightsub/subform1.cfm ======================================== You have received this newsletter because you have a user name and password at Insight on the News. To unsubscribe from this newsletter, visit "http://www.insightmag.com/main.cfm?include=unsubscribe". You may also log into Insight on the News and edit your account preferences on the Web. If you have forgotten or don't know your user name and password, it will be emailed to you after visiting the following link: http://www.insightmag.com/main.cfm?include=emailPassword&serialNumber=16oai891z5&email=cypherpunks at ssz.com From mmotyka at lsil.com Thu Jun 13 08:33:33 2002 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 09:33:33 -0600 Subject: Artist's rights? Message-ID: <3D08BB4D.4F3455DD@lsil.com> > On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Lucky Green wrote: > > > The other half of the shears cutting away at the public's right to > > entertain themselves with the artwork they purchased in any way they > > please is represented by parts of the art culture of significant > > political clout, in particular in Europe. Bills are pending or have > > already passed, that make it illegal for a buyer of a work of art to > > simply dispose of the work, or use it as kindling in his fireplace, once > > he no longer desires to own it. No, you can't just burn that painting > > you bought from some street corner painter five years ago. Though you > > are permitted to give the painting back to the artist. Without > > compensation, of course. > > the american artists are also trying to get this kind of "right" > in place for themselves. The perspective isn't so much copyright > as it is "leave it alone forever". But it amounts to the same thing. > Beyond absurd. A piece of art is like any other piece of property. Mike From powerfulllivingsHLWf6 at howamazing.com Thu Jun 13 07:51:28 2002 From: powerfulllivingsHLWf6 at howamazing.com (powerfulllivingsHLWf6 at howamazing.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 09:51:28 -0500 Subject: Are you losing money adv Hluvrgmb Message-ID: <7E577E7A-3FB4-41ED-BD12-1B3E79EDCD0F@3zl1PWGv> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2490 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ptrei at rsasecurity.com Thu Jun 13 08:02:43 2002 From: ptrei at rsasecurity.com (Trei, Peter) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 11:02:43 -0400 Subject: Artist's rights? [was: RE: Sci Journals, authors, internet] Message-ID: > From: Mike Rosing[SMTP:eresrch at eskimo.com] > > > On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Lucky Green wrote: > > > The other half of the shears cutting away at the public's right to > > entertain themselves with the artwork they purchased in any way they > > please is represented by parts of the art culture of significant > > political clout, in particular in Europe. Bills are pending or have > > already passed, that make it illegal for a buyer of a work of art to > > simply dispose of the work, or use it as kindling in his fireplace, once > > he no longer desires to own it. No, you can't just burn that painting > > you bought from some street corner painter five years ago. Though you > > are permitted to give the painting back to the artist. Without > > compensation, of course. > > the american artists are also trying to get this kind of "right" > in place for themselves. The perspective isn't so much copyright > as it is "leave it alone forever". But it amounts to the same thing. > As an example, consider the Richard Serra's 'Tilted Arc', a 12 foot high, 120 foot long, 70 ton slab of rusty (and usually grafitti covered) steel which blocked the entrance to the main Federal building in lower Manhatten for several years. After about a zillion complaints, it was moved, and Serra sued the GSA for $30million, on the grounds that the piece was "site specific", and that by moving it the GSA had destroyed it. http://www.law.harvard.edu/faculty/martin/art_law/tilted_arc.htm I frequently walked by the Arc, and it was a powerful presence, but once it ceased to be a suprise, it was mainly an irritating obstacle. One of Serra's arguments was that the Arc echoed the staircase of a courthouse across the street. I wonder if he'd have sued them for altering that building? http://www.law.uchicago.edu/Lawecon/WkngPprs_101-25/123.WL.VARA.pdf discusses the 'Visual Arts Rights Act of 1990, which is highly relevant to this topic. Peter Trei From NewProducts at sourcesecurity.com Thu Jun 13 04:11:37 2002 From: NewProducts at sourcesecurity.com (SourceSecurity.com New Product Reviews) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 12:11:37 +0100 Subject: IFSEC highlights - CCTV Message-ID: <20020613111533246.AAA1548@CELAENO.sequence.co.uk@ip02.sourcesec.adsl.uk.xo.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 12969 bytes Desc: not available URL: From matchnews at foryou.match.com Thu Jun 13 10:36:03 2002 From: matchnews at foryou.match.com (matchnews@match.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 12:36:03 -0500 Subject: Live longer, love longer at Match.com Message-ID: <20020613173123.298349E19EAA@dal53003.match.com> Wrap yourself in friends When was the last time you made a few new friends? A new study suggests you'll live a little longer with an expanded social circle! Match.com isn't just for finding romance, why not make a few new friends in your journey for love? Try a personality search today and seek out someone to share your dating woes with, you'll live longer. 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To UNSUBSCRIBE, log in to Match.com, select My Account, and choose Match.com Newsletter under MY EMAIL OPTIONS. Copyright 1993-2001 Match.com, Inc. Match.com and the radiant heart are registered trademarks of Match.com, Inc. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 26964 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mailer at opinionjournal.com Thu Jun 13 10:26:34 2002 From: mailer at opinionjournal.com (OpinionJournal Subscription) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 13:26:34 -0400 Subject: OpinionJournal Subscription Message-ID: <200206131726.NAA28144@localhost.localdomain> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 663 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ptrei at rsasecurity.com Thu Jun 13 10:45:49 2002 From: ptrei at rsasecurity.com (Trei, Peter) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 13:45:49 -0400 Subject: Artist's rights? [was: RE: Sci Journals, authors, internet] Message-ID: > Ken Brown[SMTP:k.brown at ccs.bbk.ac.uk] wrote: > "Trei, Peter" wrote: > > > As an example, consider the Richard Serra's 'Tilted Arc', a 12 foot > > high, 120 foot long, 70 ton slab of rusty (and usually grafitti covered) > > steel which blocked the entrance to the main Federal building in > > lower Manhatten for several years. After about a zillion complaints, > > it was moved, and Serra sued the GSA for $30million, on the grounds > > that the piece was "site specific", and that by moving it the GSA had > > destroyed it. > > > > http://www.law.harvard.edu/faculty/martin/art_law/tilted_arc.htm > > But the important point about that is that the artist lost! According > to the website the tried "breach of contract, trademark violations, > copyright infringement and the violation of First and Fifth Amendment > rights" and lost all of them. So the new law has no real effect other > than to give a few days work to some lawyers. > > [...] > > > http://www.law.uchicago.edu/Lawecon/WkngPprs_101-25/123.WL.VARA.pdf > > discusses the 'Visual Arts Rights Act of 1990, which is highly > > relevant to this topic. > Serra's work was moved in 1989, about a year before VARA went into effect. I suspect that 'Tilted Arc' affair was one of VARA's motivations (though any legislator who voted for it should have been condemned to have a Serra sculpture placed in front of his house for a year). Peter From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Thu Jun 13 12:03:44 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 14:03:44 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [9fans] secret stuff (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 20:41:03 0100 From: Richard Miller Reply-To: 9fans at cse.psu.edu To: 9fans at cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] secret stuff > Hah. And Secstore lives on the auth server for safety. > Perhaps I'll get an auth server. For standalone Plan 9 users not served by an auth server, would it make sense to have a secstore server running on a smart card? Would I have to implement all of Plan 9 on my smart card in order to be allowed to use the patented key-exchange protocol? -- Richard Miller From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz Wed Jun 12 20:13:15 2002 From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 15:13:15 +1200 (NZST) Subject: Sci Journals, authors, internet Message-ID: <200206130313.PAA10125@ruru.cs.auckland.ac.nz> Greg Newby writes: >Some electronic journals, some conferences and some print journals now let >authors retain copyright or, if they keep copyright, allow authors to do what >they please with their work. Usenix is really good with this. You agree not to re-publish anything for a period of one year (to cover their print distribution), although you're allowed to put a copy on your home page. After that, you're free to do what you like. They also make all their stuff available online at no charge after a year. This is why I preferentially submit papers to Usenix rather than ACM or IEEE, I want to get the information out there where it does some good, not have it locked up in a copyright prison for all eternity. I can't imagine that the ACM is going to make much (if anything) from the reprint rights of a ten-year-old article on distributed search algorithms, but by locking it up, very few people ever have access to it. (Hmm, I wonder if it can be argued that making stuff intended for public distribution inaccessible violates the creator's moral rights? I know that doesn't apply in the US, but in other countries it might work. Moral rights can't be assigned, so no publisher can take that away from you. Any lawyers out there?). >It's far more typical, though, for the journal to get all rights, except >perhaps classroom use (aka "fair use") by the author. That's more traditional for publishers like IEEE and ACM. OTOH they seem to turn a blind eye to people making papers available on their home pages, even if the publishing agreement says you shouldn't do that. I suspect the backlash would be too strong if they tried to clamp down on this, although I wish it'd be formalised in some way rather than leaving it as a grey area. Peter. From k.brown at ccs.bbk.ac.uk Thu Jun 13 07:46:51 2002 From: k.brown at ccs.bbk.ac.uk (Ken Brown) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 15:46:51 +0100 Subject: Sci Journals, authors, internet References: <200206102253.05718.sfurlong@acmenet.net> Message-ID: <3D08B05B.6CA2B0B7@ccs.bbk.ac.uk> Steve Furlong wrote: > My experience with scientific journals is more than a few years old. Do > any of youse have personal experience with publishing both several > years ago and recently? In practice these days many scientists put copies of their stuff on personal or institutional websites, perhaps regardless of journal's objections. If you Google for the authors of recent papers you often find something, quite often something closely resembling their next paper. There is a difference between refusing a paper that has already appeared elsewhere and trying to enforce copyright after paper publication. Most journals try the first, many no longer try the second. It really depends how much clout they have. /Nature/ might be able to enforce their embargo by the mere threat of not publishing your next paper. /The Proceedings of the Yorkshire Geological Society/ might be less fearsome. I doubt if anyone makes a fuss about papers presented at scientific conferences or privately distributed to colleagues (how "private" is "private" is up to the editors I suppose) Abstracts, posters, and so on don't usually count as prior publication - science could hardly function if they did. Some publishers - such as the American Society for Microbiology - say they won't accept papers published on a non-personal website, but don't mind those that have appeared on a private website. Also data can be published as long as it doesn't "constitute the substance of the submission". Biomolecular journals often /require/ that data (especially sequence data) be freely available online. /Nature/ also allows personal republication: "we are happy to extend to all authors the rights laid out in our new licence agreements in respect of the material assigned to us: to re- use the papers in any printed volume of which they are an author; to post a PDF copy on their own (not-for-profit) website; to copy (and for their institutions to copy) their papers for use in coursework teaching; and to re-use figures and tables." (http://npg.nature.com/npg/servlet/Content?data=xml/05_faq.xml&style=xml/05_faq.xsl) /Science/ still demands exclusive copyright as far as I know. (http://www.sciencemag.org/feature/contribinfo/faq/copyright_faq.shtml) but explicitly allows not-for-profit online "reprints" /after/ publication. These days, if your paper is /not/ online, it is less likely to be read. So it is in the interest of the scientist to get it as widely available as possible. Publishers walk a fine line between over-exposure, reducing potential paper sales, and annoying their contributors. On-line access to material has now become a 100% necessity in almost all fields. Most people looking up papers start with abstracting services and citation indexes such as SCI, which is available to research institutions through various deals (ours come through http://tame.mimas.ac.uk), or Medline (http://www.nlm.nih.gov/pubs/factsheets/medline.html), Current Contents, EMBASE & so on, all of which are now online. If a journal isn't abstracted (both the ones mentioned above are) it is unlikely to be read except by a small group. Many journals and publishers make some or all of their full texts available on line to subscribers, and a large minority make them available to non-subscribers. Some put recent papers on their websites and withdraw them later, others are print-only for the first year or two and upload older stuff. There are also a number of commercial web archives to which you can subscribe - but of course a great many research institutions do, so many scientists are used to seeing things online. I can see a lot of things from Science Direct (http://www.sciencedirect.com/) or Elsevier. others like PubMed (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed). There are old papers archived in places like JSTOR. In the fields I have looked at most - microbial ecology, evolutionary biology - I reckon I can read rather more than half of the relevant papers online, about half of those freely the rest because we subscribe to various services. In straight microbiology the proportion is probably higher, largely because of the American Microbiology Society which puts a lot of its publications on the website. (Such as http://intl-aem.asm.org/ - they also say they throttle the site allowing no more than 1 download per minute per remote site) A lot of learned societies are in effect either charities or government-funded, and so are less concerned with profit. For example the US National Academy of Sciences now puts new papers up daily, often some time before they appear in print - the latest version has Quint, Smith, et al (2002) "Bone patterning is altered in the regenerating zebrafish caudal fin after ectopic expression of sonic hedgehog and bmp2b or exposure to cyclopamine" which is as good a title as any http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/122571799v1 Loads of review & "current" journals are online as well. The "Annual Reviews" are all online (though not all available to nonsubscribers) which are good places to start. From k.brown at ccs.bbk.ac.uk Thu Jun 13 08:00:12 2002 From: k.brown at ccs.bbk.ac.uk (Ken Brown) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 16:00:12 +0100 Subject: Sci Journals, authors, internet References: <005201c212b3$73c3e860$0100a8c0@LUCKYVAIO> Message-ID: <3D08B37C.9CABFBAA@ccs.bbk.ac.uk> Lucky Green wrote: > > Peter wrote: > > (Hmm, I wonder if it can be argued that making stuff intended > > for public distribution inaccessible violates the creator's > > moral rights? I know that doesn't apply in the US, but in > > other countries it might work. Moral rights can't be > > assigned, so no publisher can take that away from you. > > Peter has an interesting point, since in addition to common law applies > to a trend in copyright that is prevalent in Europe (and presumably some > other countries), but rather alien to the US, taking that trend further. [...snip...] > Bills are pending or have > already passed, that make it illegal for a buyer of a work of art to > simply dispose of the work, or use it as kindling in his fireplace, once > he no longer desires to own it. No, you can't just burn that painting > you bought from some street corner painter five years ago. Though you > are permitted to give the painting back to the artist. Without > compensation, of course. [...snip...] True, but it is an old process. In French law there has been a concept of "moral rights" in a work for a very long time. These are inalienable, you can't sell them. The two most important are (IIR the jargon correctly) "integrity" and "paternity". The right of integrity means that if someone buys the copyright to a work, then alters the work in a way that could affect the reputation of the originator, they can be sued. So, for example, if a painter paints a picture, sells it to a publisher, then the publisher prints a defaced version as a book cover, the painter can perhaps sue the publisher. The right of paternity is the right to be known as the originator. It was imported into English law in, IIRC, 1989, but has to be asserted - which is why nearly all books published in Britain these days have a note asserting the rights of the author to be known as the author. These rights did not exist in the USA (& still don't, quite), but the US didn't really have copyright law in the European sense until the 1980s anyway - what they /called/ copyright was something you had to apply for and register - very different from our English tradition which is based on an idea of the natural property rights of an artist or author in their own work, and so has never had to be registered or applied for, any more than you have to get government permission to own the clothes you stand up in. The moral rights limit the freedom of action of publishers to the benefit of artists and authors, not, as far as I know the ultimate purchasers, but then IANAL and IA-certainly-NA-French-L. Some people who know a lot more about it than I do have said that English law traditionally treated copyright as a matter of property, French as a matter of personality, and the US as a sort of government licenced monopoly or patent. But they are all much closer to each other these days, with international copyright law being a compromise between the old systems. Ken Brown From tom at lemuria.org Thu Jun 13 07:06:57 2002 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 16:06:57 +0200 Subject: Sci Journals, authors, internet In-Reply-To: ; from eresrch@eskimo.com on Thu, Jun 13, 2002 at 06:27:04AM -0700 References: <005201c212b3$73c3e860$0100a8c0@LUCKYVAIO> Message-ID: <20020613160657.A14705@lemuria.org> On Thu, Jun 13, 2002 at 06:27:04AM -0700, Mike Rosing wrote: > > simply dispose of the work, or use it as kindling in his fireplace, once > > he no longer desires to own it. No, you can't just burn that painting > > you bought from some street corner painter five years ago. Though you > > are permitted to give the painting back to the artist. Without > > compensation, of course. > > the american artists are also trying to get this kind of "right" > in place for themselves. The perspective isn't so much copyright > as it is "leave it alone forever". But it amounts to the same thing. actually, as with most laws, the basic idea behind the "moral rights" isn't that bad, it just got perverted. if used differently, the "morale rights" part could well be used to put a limit on the corporate abuse of copyright. for example, I could envision an argument that an artist sues the RIAA for abusing his copyrighted works for bogus lawsuits against P2P systems. -- New GPG Key issued (old key expired): http://web.lemuria.org/pubkey.html pub 1024D/2D7A04F5 2002-05-16 Tom Vogt Key fingerprint = C731 64D1 4BCF 4C20 48A4 29B2 BF01 9FA1 2D7A 04F5 From iang at systemics.com Thu Jun 13 13:16:16 2002 From: iang at systemics.com (Ian Grigg) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 16:16:16 -0400 Subject: what a scream - answers.google.com - anon ps Message-ID: One of the things that was interesting about writing my '97 paper on task markets was that this was an obviously fertile field for real new markets for information. In the event, I didn't pursue that idea beyond writing the code, due to the absence of a real digital money that was suitably stable. It was always possible using credit cards, but they tended to pour sand in the machine, so it required a real effort to get such an info-market up and going. Many tried and failed. Now there is a market, run by our fave search engine, at http://answers.google.com/ where you can post a question for some cash. This has been tried before, but not to my knowledge by such a large and sustained player as google. A little searching around reveals a lack of sections, but the following prominent question: https://answers.google.com/answers/main?cmd=threadview&id=5025 "Anonymous Electronic Cash Payment System Sought" for the princely sum of $10 :-) -- iang --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From adam at homeport.org Thu Jun 13 13:38:57 2002 From: adam at homeport.org (Adam Shostack) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 16:38:57 -0400 Subject: [jdrury@witsusa.com: Part-time Weekend opportunities at Ft. Meade, Maryland for CLEARED professional] Message-ID: <20020613163857.A26930@lightship.internal.homeport.org> For all our lurkers, agents provocateur, prosecutors and fellow travellers looking to take in a few extra bucks. Those outside said category should perhaps worry that the government agency charged with infosec has to contract out like this... Adam ----- Forwarded message from Jennifer Drury ----- From jdrury at witsusa.com Thu Jun 13 10:32:17 2002 From: jdrury at witsusa.com (Jennifer Drury) Date: 13 Jun 2002 17:32:17 -0000 Subject: Part-time Weekend opportunities at Ft. Meade, Maryland for CLEARED professional Message-ID: Windermere Information Technology Systems, a one-stop provider of IT solutions, is currently seeking a Network Specialist to help support their World-Class Information Assurance and Technology Group. Windermere's IA service offerings focus on improving the security of our customers IT infrastructure. Our core competency for IA is built upon a team of world- class security professionals who are delivering our cutting edge technology solutions. We offer a full-spectrum of information security services and products. These include: Consulting Services Evaluation and Auditing Services Security Design and Integration Services. Network Security Analysts Job Description: Opportunity to support customer information assurance operations including vulnerability and risk assessment, intrusion detection, and security requirements analysis. Utilize state-of-the art tools to assess network security-related events. Conduct analysis and evaluation of operational activities including review of system audits and logs, correlation of event statistics. Desired skills: Knowledge of operating systems such as Solaris, WindowsNT/2000, etc. Administration of networks including TCP/IP and UDP. Windermere offers competitive salaries and comprehensive benefits, including medical, dental, vision, 401K, STD, LTD, flexible spending, profit-sharing, tuition reimbursement, vacations, holidays, life insurance, and access to Tower Federal Credit Union. Positions do have a clearance requirement. Please contact me directly for the details. If you're interested, please send a Word format of your resume with salary requirements. Jennifer Drury Recruiter The Windermere Group, LLC jdrury at witsusa.com 410-266-1756 410-266-1751 Fax ----- End forwarded message ----- -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume From rah at shipwright.com Thu Jun 13 14:38:20 2002 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 17:38:20 -0400 Subject: what a scream - answers.google.com - anon ps Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text From tom at lemuria.org Thu Jun 13 09:16:31 2002 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 18:16:31 +0200 Subject: Sci Journals, authors, internet In-Reply-To: ; from eresrch@eskimo.com on Thu, Jun 13, 2002 at 07:45:18AM -0700 References: <20020613160657.A14705@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <20020613181631.B9558@lemuria.org> On Thu, Jun 13, 2002 at 07:45:18AM -0700, Mike Rosing wrote: > > if used differently, the "morale rights" part could well be used to put > > a limit on the corporate abuse of copyright. for example, I could > > envision an argument that an artist sues the RIAA for abusing his > > copyrighted works for bogus lawsuits against P2P systems. > > I guess the argument would boil down to who has copyright and who or what > has "moral right". For sculpture and painting the duplication rights are > kind of obvious, but the destruction/use/"first sale" is complicated. > For digital art/music duplication rights are complicated, and use in > other works ("fair use") gets really messy. I guess you misinterpret the "morale rights" doctrine. not that I'm a lawyer, but to my reading of the german copyright law, the morale rights are thus: - publication the creator can control if and how his work gets published. only he may cite from or describe his work in public as long as neither the work nor a description of it are published with his permission. (e.g. even the publisher can't leak stuff without the author's consent) - credit the creator must be given proper credit, and he can choose if and what kind of credit (e.g. if he wants to use his real name or a pseudonym) - defense against disfiguration (?) creator can fight against attacks on the integrity of his work, within limits. this is the complicated part. as I parse it, the intention was that if you, say, write a poem against communism and by some freak accident the communist party adopts it as their hymn, you can stop them from doing so (unless you enjoy the irony of it). to me, the german copyright appears to take much more consideration of the author, while the US copyright system is entirely economical in nature. no surprise that the idea of "intellectual property" comes from your side of the atlantic, it doesn't fit very well with most european copyright doctrines. that said, your original terms of copyright were more sensible - europe has always had durations such as 70 years or "death + 50 years" and other bullshit. too bad the "new world order copyright" takes the bad from each, instead of the good. -- New GPG Key issued (old key expired): http://web.lemuria.org/pubkey.html pub 1024D/2D7A04F5 2002-05-16 Tom Vogt Key fingerprint = C731 64D1 4BCF 4C20 48A4 29B2 BF01 9FA1 2D7A 04F5 From k.brown at ccs.bbk.ac.uk Thu Jun 13 10:27:56 2002 From: k.brown at ccs.bbk.ac.uk (Ken Brown) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 18:27:56 +0100 Subject: Artist's rights? [was: RE: Sci Journals, authors, internet] References: Message-ID: <3D08D61C.943AE0A9@ccs.bbk.ac.uk> These laws don't really get into cyberpunks territory, because they are about rights that are reserved to the original artist, and cannot be transferred to publishers or distributors or record companies, and can only be possessed by natural persons, not corporations. So (in France, not the USA) a musician or a film directory might be able to sue Time Warner or Sony if they insist on adding watermarks or copy protection to a work, but neither could sue a cypherpunk for taking the watermarks off. In the USA the moral rights, AFAICT, wouldn't apply to the copy or reproduction anyway, only the original. "Trei, Peter" wrote: > As an example, consider the Richard Serra's 'Tilted Arc', a 12 foot > high, 120 foot long, 70 ton slab of rusty (and usually grafitti covered) > steel which blocked the entrance to the main Federal building in > lower Manhatten for several years. After about a zillion complaints, > it was moved, and Serra sued the GSA for $30million, on the grounds > that the piece was "site specific", and that by moving it the GSA had > destroyed it. > > http://www.law.harvard.edu/faculty/martin/art_law/tilted_arc.htm But the important point about that is that the artist lost! According to the website the tried "breach of contract, trademark violations, copyright infringement and the violation of First and Fifth Amendment rights" and lost all of them. So the new law has no real effect other than to give a few days work to some lawyers. [...] > http://www.law.uchicago.edu/Lawecon/WkngPprs_101-25/123.WL.VARA.pdf > discusses the 'Visual Arts Rights Act of 1990, which is highly > relevant to this topic. Thanks for that - I hadn't heard of VARA before. No real reason I should have I suppose, it being in the USA and me not. It seems much more limited than the French moral rights, in that it only applies to unique objects, not to texts or to broadcast or recorded work. According to the commentary in that paper the US experience with VARA seems to agree with what I have read about the French laws (in books and papers trying to explain them to us English, who never had such rules before), in that few actions are taken under it and that they are almost always relatively unknown sculptors objecting to treatment of a work of public art. With the implication that they are doing it more for the publicity than for the damages, which are either never awarded (in the USA) or are tiny (in France). Ken From groupagent at myegroups.com Thu Jun 13 15:31:41 2002 From: groupagent at myegroups.com (Group Agent) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 18:31:41 -0400 Subject: ADV: It's About Time Message-ID: We have some exciting news! My eGroups is a new service that provides a great new way to organize your groups online! 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Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2788 bytes Desc: not available URL: From k.brown at ccs.bbk.ac.uk Thu Jun 13 10:55:48 2002 From: k.brown at ccs.bbk.ac.uk (Ken Brown) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 18:55:48 +0100 Subject: Sci Journals, authors, internet References: <20020613160657.A14705@lemuria.org> <20020613181631.B9558@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <3D08DCA4.B0F74B88@ccs.bbk.ac.uk> Tom wrote: [...] > - publication > the creator can control if and how his work gets published. only he may > cite from or describe his work in public as long as neither the work > nor a description of it are published with his permission. > (e.g. even the publisher can't leak stuff without the author's consent) This is basically copy right as already existed in England, & not one of the moral rights. > - credit > the creator must be given proper credit, and he can choose if and > what kind of credit (e.g. if he wants to use his real name or a > pseudonym) Yep, this got added to English law (but not US, I think, except for the weird VARA Peter mentioned which only applies to unique original objects) > - defense against disfiguration (?) > creator can fight against attacks on the integrity of his work, > within limits. > this is the complicated part. as I parse it, the intention was that > if you, say, write a poem against communism and by some freak > accident the communist party adopts it as their hymn, you can stop > them from doing so (unless you enjoy the irony of it). I don't know about the German laws but this is not, I think, the case in most other countries. Just borrowing a poem & using it somewhere else would (at worst) count as parody, which is legally protected speech in the US (& usually in England as well). I think the law is more intended for the Alan Smithee situation, where a publisher (or record company, film studio, broadcaster, whatever) takes a work and changes it so that the author thinks it makes them look bad, and they don't want to be associated with it. I am no expert, but I think up till 1989 in common law jurisdictions this would have to have been pursued as defamation - which in the USA means the aggrieved party has effectively no chance at all, and in England that the side with the most expensive lawyers wins. > to me, the german copyright appears to take much more consideration of > the author, while the US copyright system is entirely economical in > nature. That is my general impression. As an example of the sort of nonsense that some countries recognise moral rights to avoid, while Googling around for these things I found this heap of prdroid shit: "... any submission of materials by you will be considered a contribution to Boeing for further use in its sole discretion, regardless of any proprietary claims or reservation of rights noted in the submission. Accordingly, you agree that any materials, including but not limited to questions, comments, suggestions, ideas, plans, notes, drawings, original or creative materials or other information, provided by you in the form of e-mail or submissions to Boeing, or postings on this Site, are non-confidential (subject to Boeing's Privacy Policy) and shall become the sole property of Boeing. Boeing shall own exclusive rights, including all intellectual property rights, and shall be entitled to the unrestricted use of these materials for any purpose, commercial or otherwise, without acknowledgement or compensation to you. The submission of any materials to Boeing, including the posting of materials to any forum or interactive area, irrevocably waives any and all "moral rights" in such materials, including the rights of paternity and integrity." (http://www.boeing.com/companyoffices/aboutus/site_terms.html) Ken PS in English these are "moral" rights - "morale" is borrowed from French and means the mental state of an army :-) From Guaranteed.Traffic4823 at sprintmail.com Thu Jun 13 16:30:57 2002 From: Guaranteed.Traffic4823 at sprintmail.com (Guaranteed.Traffic4823 at sprintmail.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 19:30:57 -0400 Subject: Guaranteed, Targeted Traffic! Message-ID: <200206132246.RAA14021@einstein.ssz.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1186 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Guaranteed.Traffic4823 at sprintmail.com Thu Jun 13 16:30:58 2002 From: Guaranteed.Traffic4823 at sprintmail.com (Guaranteed.Traffic4823 at sprintmail.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 19:30:58 -0400 Subject: Guaranteed, Targeted Traffic! Message-ID: <200206132246.RAA14023@einstein.ssz.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1186 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Guaranteed.Traffic4823 at sprintmail.com Thu Jun 13 16:30:58 2002 From: Guaranteed.Traffic4823 at sprintmail.com (Guaranteed.Traffic4823 at sprintmail.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 19:30:58 -0400 Subject: Guaranteed, Targeted Traffic! Message-ID: <200206132338.g5DNclOB037741@hq.pro-ns.net> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1186 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Guaranteed.Traffic4823 at sprintmail.com Thu Jun 13 16:31:06 2002 From: Guaranteed.Traffic4823 at sprintmail.com (Guaranteed.Traffic4823 at sprintmail.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 19:31:06 -0400 Subject: Guaranteed, Targeted Traffic! Message-ID: <20020614002222.71329.qmail@weltregierung.koeln.ccc.de> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1186 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Guaranteed.Traffic4823 at sprintmail.com Thu Jun 13 16:31:06 2002 From: Guaranteed.Traffic4823 at sprintmail.com (Guaranteed.Traffic4823 at sprintmail.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 19:31:06 -0400 Subject: Guaranteed, Targeted Traffic! Message-ID: <20020614002221.71322.qmail@weltregierung.koeln.ccc.de> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1186 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Guaranteed.Traffic4823 at sprintmail.com Thu Jun 13 16:31:06 2002 From: Guaranteed.Traffic4823 at sprintmail.com (Guaranteed.Traffic4823 at sprintmail.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 19:31:06 -0400 Subject: Guaranteed, Targeted Traffic! Message-ID: <200206140025.g5E0PLE98212@locust.minder.net> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1186 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Guaranteed.Traffic4823 at sprintmail.com Thu Jun 13 17:17:12 2002 From: Guaranteed.Traffic4823 at sprintmail.com (Guaranteed.Traffic4823 at sprintmail.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 20:17:12 -0400 Subject: Guaranteed, Targeted Traffic! Message-ID: <20020614002223.71344.qmail@weltregierung.koeln.ccc.de> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1186 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Guaranteed.Traffic4823 at sprintmail.com Thu Jun 13 17:17:12 2002 From: Guaranteed.Traffic4823 at sprintmail.com (Guaranteed.Traffic4823 at sprintmail.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 20:17:12 -0400 Subject: Guaranteed, Targeted Traffic! Message-ID: <20020614002224.71351.qmail@weltregierung.koeln.ccc.de> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1186 bytes Desc: not available URL: From chhabra at lsv.ens-cachan.fr Thu Jun 13 13:54:01 2002 From: chhabra at lsv.ens-cachan.fr (Shalendra Chhabra) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 22:54:01 +0200 (CEST) Subject: HAL FINNEY Message-ID: Can anyone give me the email address of Hal Finney? I need to contact him Urgently Please reply to me... I am an Indian Student Thanks Shalendra --------------------------------------------------------------------- You can be the BEST one, provided you wanna that!!!! Shalendra Chhabra Laboratoire Specification et Verification, Ecole Normale Superieure De Cachan, Pavillon Des Jardins, Chambre n 215, 61 Avenue Du President Wilson, Cachan Cedex France ph office 33.01.47.40.28.46 www.angelfire.com/linux/shalu From tom at lemuria.org Thu Jun 13 14:11:25 2002 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 23:11:25 +0200 Subject: Sci Journals, authors, internet In-Reply-To: <3D08DCA4.B0F74B88@ccs.bbk.ac.uk>; from k.brown@ccs.bbk.ac.uk on Thu, Jun 13, 2002 at 06:55:48PM +0100 References: <20020613160657.A14705@lemuria.org> <20020613181631.B9558@lemuria.org> <3D08DCA4.B0F74B88@ccs.bbk.ac.uk> Message-ID: <20020613231124.B9628@lemuria.org> On Thu, Jun 13, 2002 at 06:55:48PM +0100, Ken Brown wrote: > > - publication > > the creator can control if and how his work gets published. only he may > > cite from or describe his work in public as long as neither the work > > nor a description of it are published with his permission. > > (e.g. even the publisher can't leak stuff without the author's consent) > > This is basically copy right as already existed in England, & not one of > the moral rights. IANAL, but this is not the same as the "regular" publication clause, because that one is still a seperate (the german copyright law has three parts - moral rights, economic rights and other rights. > > - defense against disfiguration (?) > > creator can fight against attacks on the integrity of his work, > > within limits. > > this is the complicated part. as I parse it, the intention was that > > if you, say, write a poem against communism and by some freak > > accident the communist party adopts it as their hymn, you can stop > > them from doing so (unless you enjoy the irony of it). > > I don't know about the German laws but this is not, I think, the case in > most other countries. Just borrowing a poem & using it somewhere else > would (at worst) count as parody, which is legally protected speech in > the US (& usually in England as well). > > I think the law is more intended for the Alan Smithee situation, where a > publisher (or record company, film studio, broadcaster, whatever) takes > a work and changes it so that the author thinks it makes them look bad, > and they don't want to be associated with it. yes, that is what I meant. except that the law as I read it does not require a change. I don't think parody would violate it. > PS in English these are "moral" rights - "morale" is borrowed from > French and means the mental state of an army :-) whoops. I mixed those up before. /me is not a native english speaker. :) -- New GPG Key issued (old key expired): http://web.lemuria.org/pubkey.html pub 1024D/2D7A04F5 2002-05-16 Tom Vogt Key fingerprint = C731 64D1 4BCF 4C20 48A4 29B2 BF01 9FA1 2D7A 04F5 From jason at lunkwill.org Thu Jun 13 18:35:41 2002 From: jason at lunkwill.org (Jason Holt) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 01:35:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Safe RSA variant? Message-ID: Well, I got such a good response from my last technical question that I'll try again :) If it's actually secure, it'll go really well with my credential system. Trent generates primes p,q. He publishes n=pq and some random value g. Trent calculates a and a' such that aa' = 1 % (p-1)(q-1) and a' is prime. He sends Alice a' and g^a%n. a' is her secret exponent and g^a%n her public value. Bob can establish a shared secret with Alice if Alice got a' from Trent. He picks a random r and sends her g^ar%n. She raises it to a' to compute the shared secret g^r%n. So the important questions are: * Given g^a%n and a', can Alice derive (p-1)(q-1)? If so, she'd be able to take over Trent's job. * Given g^k%n and k' for lots of different k, can we derive (p-1)(q-1) or otherwise imitate Trent's ability to give out (g^k%n, k') pairs? So IOW the goal is for Bob to be able to send Alice a message iff she knows a secret from Trent. And if Alice's secret is compromised, only messages sent to (or possibly from) Alice become vulnerable. A friend of mine pointed out that Alice can trivially compute another working pair of keys from her own: g^-a and -a'. And if the a' keys weren't prime, Alice and Bob could factor them and generate other keypairs. Both of those seem manageable, though. The common modulus attack in which you use g^k and g^k' to get information on g (which is public in this case) by calculating rk+sk'=1 caused me problems in earlier equations I tried, but doesn't seem to help the attacker here. -J From nobody at dizum.com Thu Jun 13 23:20:04 2002 From: nobody at dizum.com (Nomen Nescio) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 08:20:04 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Safe RSA variant? Message-ID: Jason Holt writes: > Trent generates primes p,q. He publishes n=pq and some random value g. > > Trent calculates a and a' such that aa' = 1 % (p-1)(q-1) and a' is prime. He > sends Alice a' and g^a%n. a' is her secret exponent and g^a%n her public > value. Another way to think of g^a is as the a'-th root of g, since (g^a)^a' = g mod n. If we instead use k instead of a', then Alice gets k and the kth root of g. > Bob can establish a shared secret with Alice if Alice got a' from Trent. He > picks a random r and sends her g^ar%n. She raises it to a' to compute the > shared secret g^r%n. In my notion, she publishes her kth root of g, Bob raises it to the rth power, and Alice then raises it to the kth power to recover g^r. > So the important questions are: > > * Given g^a%n and a', can Alice derive (p-1)(q-1)? If so, she'd be able to > take over Trent's job. No, given g and the kth root of g, she clearly can't find phi(n), because every RSA signature supplies such a pair. > * Given g^k%n and k' for lots of different k, can we derive (p-1)(q-1) or > otherwise imitate Trent's ability to give out (g^k%n, k') pairs? I think this is OK too. See the Strong RSA Assumption, for example at http://www.zurich.ibm.com/security/ace/sig.pdf. Basically this says that you can't find kth roots mod an RSA modulus without knowing the factors. You might want to ask this on sci.crypt, they are pretty good with pure math questions like this one. From adam at homeport.org Fri Jun 14 06:58:02 2002 From: adam at homeport.org (Adam Shostack) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 09:58:02 -0400 Subject: Top 10 police database abuses (pointer) Message-ID: <20020614095802.A33568@lightship.internal.homeport.org> http://www.techtv.com/cybercrime/privacy/story/0,23008,3387549,00.html > Law enforcement officers are supposed to protect and serve, but some > corrupt cops misuse police databases to get dates and more Tuesday, > 6/11 at 9 p.m. Eastern on 'CyberCrime.' > Your address, telephone number, Social Security number, date of > birth, criminal record -- all this information and more can be > accessed by police officers if they have basic information about > you. Not surprisingly, some cops abuse their privilege and use their > database access for less-than-honorable reasons. This week on > "CyberCrime" we show you how some corrupt cops used police databases > to harass exes and even get telephone numbers of pretty girls they > see in cars. -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume From cypherpunk-vin at vmeng.com Fri Jun 14 10:41:16 2002 From: cypherpunk-vin at vmeng.com (cypherpunk-vin at vmeng.com) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 10:41:16 -0700 Subject: politicians vs. bill of rights (your legislature on drugs) In-Reply-To: <3D0A1861.D0815F6D@al-qaeda.com> References: <3D0A1861.D0815F6D@al-qaeda.com> Message-ID: maybe Kalifornians should start an referendum to drug test politicians... since most of them are dopes anyway... At 9:22 AM -0700 6/14/02, Khoder bin Hakkin wrote: >SACRAMENTO -- Dismayed by new disclosures of the use of steroids in >Major League Baseball, a state senator wants to force most professional >sports teams to test athletes for performance enhancing drugs if they >play >games in California. > >State Sen. Don Perata (D-Alameda) said the Legislature must do what >baseball and the National Hockey League have not: Mandate random drug >testing to ensure players do not compete while juiced. > >http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-000041818jun14.story?coll=la%2Dheadlines%2Dcalifornia > >................ > >If politicians have this little respect for the prohibition on >unreasonable search, perhaps >they will have more respect for the noose due traitors... -- Vinnie Moscaritolo ITCB-IMSH PGP: 3F903472C3AF622D5D918D9BD8B100090B3EF042 ------------------------------------------------------- Those who hammer their swords into plows, will plow for those who don't." From keyser-soze at hushmail.com Fri Jun 14 11:30:25 2002 From: keyser-soze at hushmail.com (keyser-soze at hushmail.com) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 11:30:25 -0700 Subject: Top 10 police database abuses (pointer) Message-ID: <200206141830.g5EIUPk48290@mailserver2.hushmail.com> At 09:58 AM 6/14/2002 -0400, Adam Shostack wrote: http://www.techtv.com/cybercrime/privacy/story/0,23008,3387549,00.html > Law enforcement officers are supposed to protect and serve, but some > corrupt cops misuse police databases to get dates and more Tuesday, > 6/11 at 9 p.m. Eastern on 'CyberCrime.' > Your address, telephone number, Social Security number, date of > birth, criminal record -- all this information and more can be > accessed by police officers if they have basic information about > you. Not surprisingly, some cops abuse their privilege and use their > database access for less-than-honorable reasons. This week on > "CyberCrime" we show you how some corrupt cops used police databases > to harass exes and even get telephone numbers of pretty girls they > see in cars. Good reasons for average citizens to obtain and use alternate identification. Looks like we all need to play Spy Games if we want to control access to our personal information. Communicate in total privacy. Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2 Looking for a good deal on a domain name? http://www.hush.com/partners/offers.cgi?id=domainpeople From schear at lvcm.com Fri Jun 14 11:47:19 2002 From: schear at lvcm.com (Steve Schear) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 11:47:19 -0700 Subject: Harry Potter released unprotected Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020614113904.05829630@pop3.lvcm.com> >Harry Potter released unprotected > >13:40 13 June 02 NewScientist.com news service > >Warner Home Video has chosen not to copy-protect the home versions of its >blockbuster movie Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone in major markets, >including the US and UK. This means people can go out and buy a DVD or >VHS, connect the analogue output of their player to a recorder - either >analogue or digital - and make free copies for friends. > >Usually, hot new movies are protected by Macrovision, which tinkers with >the analogue picture signal so that it can be viewed on a TV set but not >copied. > >http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99992404 So, is this just a test or has at least one industry giant decided, as the software industry learned long ago, that the cost of copy protection often exceeds its value. Time to short Macrovision (MVSN, NASDAQ NM)? In the past year the stock has dropped from about $72 to about $14. I wonder if their $1.00 drop in price on today's opening reflects this news? steve From ericm at lne.com Fri Jun 14 12:11:50 2002 From: ericm at lne.com (Eric Murray) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 12:11:50 -0700 Subject: politicians vs. bill of rights (your legislature on drugs) In-Reply-To: <3D0A1861.D0815F6D@al-qaeda.com>; from kh@al-qaeda.com on Fri, Jun 14, 2002 at 09:22:58AM -0700 References: <3D0A1861.D0815F6D@al-qaeda.com> Message-ID: <20020614121150.B7865@slack.lne.com> On Fri, Jun 14, 2002 at 09:22:58AM -0700, Khoder bin Hakkin wrote: > SACRAMENTO -- Dismayed by new disclosures of the use of steroids in > Major League Baseball, a state senator wants to force most professional > sports teams to test athletes for performance enhancing drugs if they > play > games in California. [..] > ................ > > If politicians have this little respect for the prohibition on > unreasonable search, perhaps > they will have more respect for the noose due traitors... It's already a reality in some sports and some countries. In France for instance, police can randomly drug test professional cyclists at any time. They can also search them, their houses and cars at any time and with no warrant. Italy also has somewhat similar provisions. Perata is a well-known rights-taker. He's also a well-known hypocrite, having sponsored gun-grabbing legislation while using his position to get himself a concealed weapon permit, something that is nearly always denied to ordinary California citizens. http://www.nrawinningteam.com/calnra/perata/ Eric From sendit at howamazing.com Fri Jun 14 12:39:51 2002 From: sendit at howamazing.com (sendit) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 12:39:51 Subject: You're Losing Money If You Aren't Using Us!! adv Message-ID: <200206141946.g5EJk8ah005447@ak47.algebra.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2453 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mmotyka at lsil.com Fri Jun 14 12:12:36 2002 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 13:12:36 -0600 Subject: Theft Attempt or LEO Sting? Message-ID: <3D0A4024.D994FECD@lsil.com> Look at the two sites : http://www.e-gold.com http://www.e-golb.com - BTW the registrant's info is phony, Docent doesn't know her, carder.com user search fails, may she get boiled alive someday I never opened an e-gold account. I wonder where the fuckers got my e-mail address - here or because I check markets on kitco? Mike e-mail excerpt : Reply-To: "" From: "" --------------------------------------------------------------- * * * Important information about your e-gold account * * * --------------------------------------------------------------- e-gold Account User Agreement updates Please go in yours account and read e-gold User Agreement using the link below. * * * IMPORTANT * * Only after logging in and reading updates you can continue spend e-gold. Click here for login. --------------------------------------------- Thank you for using e-gold! --------------------------------------------- This automatic email sent to: mmotyka at lsil.com Do not reply to this email. www.e-gold.com From kh at al-qaeda.com Fri Jun 14 13:41:12 2002 From: kh at al-qaeda.com (Khoder bin Hakkin) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 13:41:12 -0700 Subject: spouse-spying software -d.i.r.t.@home? Message-ID: <3D0A54E8.F49DD1ED@al-qaeda.com> Looks like someone else is selling a trojan for paranoid monogamists: http://www.cheating-spouse-check.com/netobserve.htm With 128-bit encryption, even... yawn From mmotyka at lsil.com Fri Jun 14 12:56:23 2002 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 13:56:23 -0600 Subject: Theft Attempt or LEO Sting? References: Message-ID: <3D0A4A67.217818F1@lsil.com> Sunder wrote: > > The https cert for e-golb shows up as "snake oil" in all the fields. > > www.snakeoil.dom > Snake Oil, Ltd > Webserver Team > Snake Town > Snake Desert, XY > emailAddress: www at snakeoil.dom > > Snake Oil CA > Snake Oil, Ltd > Certificate Authority > Snake Town > > Nice scam... Probably snorted cypherpunks for email addrs and spammed'em > all. > > All the top bar links point to the real e-gold site.... nice... > All except for "home" and "login" - the "key" ones, so to speak. Well, I'll continue to invest/spend e-gold at my old rate of 0; Yawn. Mike From sunder at sunder.net Fri Jun 14 13:19:20 2002 From: sunder at sunder.net (Sunder) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 16:19:20 -0400 (edt) Subject: Theft Attempt or LEO Sting? In-Reply-To: <3D0A4024.D994FECD@lsil.com> Message-ID: I got one of these too. ----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--------------------------- + ^ + :Surveillance cameras|Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\ \|/ :aren't security. A |share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\ <--*-->:camera won't stop a |monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/ /|\ :masked killer, but |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/ + v + :will violate privacy|site, and you must change them very often. --------_sunder_ at _sunder_._net_------- http://www.sunder.net ------------ On Fri, 14 Jun 2002, Michael Motyka wrote: > Look at the two sites : > > http://www.e-gold.com > > http://www.e-golb.com - > > BTW the registrant's info is phony, Docent doesn't know her, carder.com > user search fails, may she get boiled alive someday > > I never opened an e-gold account. I wonder where the fuckers got my > e-mail address - here or because I check markets on kitco? > > Mike > > e-mail excerpt : > > Reply-To: > "" > From: > "" > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > * * * Important information about your e-gold account * * * > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > e-gold Account User Agreement updates > > Please go in yours account and read > e-gold User Agreement using the link below. > > * * * IMPORTANT * * > Only after logging in and reading updates you can continue spend e-gold. > Click here for login. > > > --------------------------------------------- > Thank you for using e-gold! > --------------------------------------------- > > This automatic email sent to: mmotyka at lsil.com > Do not reply to this email. > > www.e-gold.com From sunder at sunder.net Fri Jun 14 13:24:09 2002 From: sunder at sunder.net (Sunder) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 16:24:09 -0400 (edt) Subject: Theft Attempt or LEO Sting? In-Reply-To: <3D0A4024.D994FECD@lsil.com> Message-ID: The https cert for e-golb shows up as "snake oil" in all the fields. www.snakeoil.dom Snake Oil, Ltd Webserver Team Snake Town Snake Desert, XY emailAddress: www at snakeoil.dom Snake Oil CA Snake Oil, Ltd Certificate Authority Snake Town Nice scam... Probably snorted cypherpunks for email addrs and spammed'em all. All the top bar links point to the real e-gold site.... nice... ----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--------------------------- + ^ + :Surveillance cameras|Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\ \|/ :aren't security. A |share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\ <--*-->:camera won't stop a |monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/ /|\ :masked killer, but |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/ + v + :will violate privacy|site, and you must change them very often. --------_sunder_ at _sunder_._net_------- http://www.sunder.net ------------ On Fri, 14 Jun 2002, Michael Motyka wrote: > Look at the two sites : > > http://www.e-gold.com > > http://www.e-golb.com - > > BTW the registrant's info is phony, Docent doesn't know her, carder.com > user search fails, may she get boiled alive someday > > I never opened an e-gold account. I wonder where the fuckers got my > e-mail address - here or because I check markets on kitco? > > Mike > > e-mail excerpt : > > Reply-To: > "" > From: > "" > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > * * * Important information about your e-gold account * * * > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > e-gold Account User Agreement updates > > Please go in yours account and read > e-gold User Agreement using the link below. > > * * * IMPORTANT * * > Only after logging in and reading updates you can continue spend e-gold. > Click here for login. > > > --------------------------------------------- > Thank you for using e-gold! > --------------------------------------------- > > This automatic email sent to: mmotyka at lsil.com > Do not reply to this email. > > www.e-gold.com From sexsyapeera at inmail.sk Fri Jun 14 17:03:43 2002 From: sexsyapeera at inmail.sk (sexsyapeera at inmail.sk) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 19:03:43 -0500 Subject: DO YOU LIKE FREE PORN!! Message-ID: <1024095823.18510@localhost.localdomain> cypherpunks at algebra.com DO ME NOW!! FREE PORN ACCESS ALL THE PORN YOU CAN HANDLE!! DO ME NOW I WANT YOU TO CUM!!! http://www.freewebland.com/nh57/ss plcurechaxf^nytroen(pbz From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Fri Jun 14 17:49:25 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 19:49:25 -0500 Subject: Slashdot | Record Industry Wants Royalties for Used CD Sales Message-ID: <3D0A8F15.7B671B3B@ssz.com> http://slashdot.org/articles/02/06/14/2111220.shtml?tid=141 -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From myenvironment at interlog.com Fri Jun 14 13:07:29 2002 From: myenvironment at interlog.com (MyEnvironment Members D) Date: 14 Jun 2002 20:07:29 -0000 Subject: MyEnvironment: Newsletter v.1.1 Message-ID: <20020614200729.946.qmail@hosting-network.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 457 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fubm2000poi159amq8 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 14 19:43:44 2002 From: fubm2000poi159amq8 at yahoo.com (--E-Mails Safely) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 21:43:44 -0500 Subject: --June SALE $5.00 - 75,000 LIST Message-ID: <200206150148.UAA32323@einstein.ssz.com> 1/2 PRICE SALE ------------- NEW LARGER LISTS SEND SAFELY EVEN WITH FREE ISP's! ===================================== ~Specials~ --With orders of 500,000: -THREE months of FREE updates of our 75K lists as they are added to our database. Over $100 value -FREE Demo of an e-mail program that will send your e-mails safely, even with FREE ISP's. 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Starts at $20...1/2 Price Sale thru 6-15-02 ----------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________________________ To be removed from future mailings: mailto:eprmo614emc43 at yahoo.com?Subject=Remove From morlockelloi at yahoo.com Sat Jun 15 00:21:24 2002 From: morlockelloi at yahoo.com (Morlock Elloi) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 00:21:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Theft Attempt or LEO Sting? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020615072124.76476.qmail@web13206.mail.yahoo.com> Ultimately it's impossible to have security where one side is a machine handling many live customers. Whatever central machine does can be emulated or simulated in human's eyes - by subverting the machine itself, the transport mechanism or the client machine/software. This is the ultimate limit of squeezing out middlemen (aka e-commerce.) The security is proportional to wetware cycles burned per transaction. ===== end (of original message) Y-a*h*o-o (yes, they scan for this) spam follows: Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From fjat1357 at yahoo.com Sat Jun 15 10:57:06 2002 From: fjat1357 at yahoo.com (fjat1357 at yahoo.com) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 01:57:06 -1600 Subject: low cost extended warranty for your old/new car TNIKCBMSEM Message-ID: <000052062a9c$0000324a$00002fab@yahoo.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 7051 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Wilfred at Cryogen.com Sat Jun 15 02:36:52 2002 From: Wilfred at Cryogen.com (Wilfred L. Guerin) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 04:36:52 -0500 Subject: Emergency Indicators, Current Events Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20020615043652.00ab58b0@127.0.0.1> [Please CC "Wilfred at Cryogen.com" all responses.] In light of the forthcoming Tyrany/Dictatorship with the all-honest fed-gestapo, and resulting from Fox's display of (attached image) upon the takedown of their entire server array immediately after posting *legitimate* inquiry/articles, I search and notice a severe lack of publicised listings of the conventional emergency indicator images, the old cold-war type warning symbols, and there is absolutely no publication (disappeared, with a *heck* of a lot of other "safety" and counter-hostility information) of any of the response directives, nor can we find openly a listing of the symbols and their interpretations whatsoever... This, along with the current events and other issues, indicate a heightened expectation for public outcry with the forthcoming events, some of which are apparently delayed/late, as the common populus has not yet revolted about the oil profit federal terrorists, nor other issues... The concern, is for the 40% population who comprehends the existance of emergency response protocol, and the 2% that will actually do something about it, there is absolutely no publications currently with any information on this topic. FEMA has eliminated print/stock, the nuke warning symbols are still posted, but only for power-plant issues. CD/etc are all whitewashed... Now, with this said... I know this symbol (from Fox) as being a warning that the xmit arrays and content feeds have been compromised... It has been standard since half a centuary ago... Applied, theorhetically, to the server array, if corporate isnt under siege. Now in the current time of war, when most of this is actually going to be put to use for the first time, and we need it (prior, of course, to going to the concentration camps (see '90's policy)) ... it is very obvious that *someone*gestapo*terrorist*feds* has eliminated virtually all digital information on all emergency, logistic, and any other related topic whatsoever... Google looses content constantly, we know what happened to archive.org's repositories from last fall, etc... And the only thing I have left of the CD/EMS indicators is an old photocopy with a few of the generic decals... So what does a simple human do when entities start declaring omega privleges in attempt to save the population? Or have the doomsday logistics been effectively terminated by the feds as well? I'm gonna bet hanging an amerikan flag upside down is now treason and punnishable by on-site rifle blasts to the back of the head. For discussion... -Wilfred L. Guerin Wilfred at Cryogen.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: sec_emergency02.gif Type: image/gif Size: 1288 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- From Wilfred at Cryogen.com Sat Jun 15 02:39:00 2002 From: Wilfred at Cryogen.com (Wilfred L. Guerin) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 04:39:00 -0500 Subject: Emergency Indicators, Current Events Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20020615043900.00ab6ee0@127.0.0.1> [Please CC "Wilfred at Cryogen.com" all responses.] In light of the forthcoming Tyrany/Dictatorship with the all-honest fed-gestapo, and resulting from Fox's display of (attached image) upon the takedown of their entire server array immediately after posting *legitimate* inquiry/articles, I search and notice a severe lack of publicised listings of the conventional emergency indicator images, the old cold-war type warning symbols, and there is absolutely no publication (disappeared, with a *heck* of a lot of other "safety" and counter-hostility information) of any of the response directives, nor can we find openly a listing of the symbols and their interpretations whatsoever... This, along with the current events and other issues, indicate a heightened expectation for public outcry with the forthcoming events, some of which are apparently delayed/late, as the common populus has not yet revolted about the oil profit federal terrorists, nor other issues... The concern, is for the 40% population who comprehends the existance of emergency response protocol, and the 2% that will actually do something about it, there is absolutely no publications currently with any information on this topic. FEMA has eliminated print/stock, the nuke warning symbols are still posted, but only for power-plant issues. CD/etc are all whitewashed... Now, with this said... I know this symbol (from Fox) as being a warning that the xmit arrays and content feeds have been compromised... It has been standard since half a centuary ago... Applied, theorhetically, to the server array, if corporate isnt under siege. Now in the current time of war, when most of this is actually going to be put to use for the first time, and we need it (prior, of course, to going to the concentration camps (see '90's policy)) ... it is very obvious that *someone*gestapo*terrorist*feds* has eliminated virtually all digital information on all emergency, logistic, and any other related topic whatsoever... Google looses content constantly, we know what happened to archive.org's repositories from last fall, etc... And the only thing I have left of the CD/EMS indicators is an old photocopy with a few of the generic decals... So what does a simple human do when entities start declaring omega privleges in attempt to save the population? Or have the doomsday logistics been effectively terminated by the feds as well? I'm gonna bet hanging an amerikan flag upside down is now treason and punnishable by on-site rifle blasts to the back of the head. For discussion... -Wilfred L. Guerin Wilfred at Cryogen.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: sec_emergency02.gif Type: image/gif Size: 1288 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- From Wilfred at Cryogen.com Sat Jun 15 02:42:06 2002 From: Wilfred at Cryogen.com (Wilfred L. Guerin) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 04:42:06 -0500 Subject: Emergency Indicators, Current Events Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20020615044206.00ab93d8@127.0.0.1> [Please CC "Wilfred at Cryogen.com" all responses.] In light of the forthcoming Tyrany/Dictatorship with the all-honest fed-gestapo, and resulting from Fox's display of (attached image) upon the takedown of their entire server array immediately after posting *legitimate* inquiry/articles, I search and notice a severe lack of publicised listings of the conventional emergency indicator images, the old cold-war type warning symbols, and there is absolutely no publication (disappeared, with a *heck* of a lot of other "safety" and counter-hostility information) of any of the response directives, nor can we find openly a listing of the symbols and their interpretations whatsoever... This, along with the current events and other issues, indicate a heightened expectation for public outcry with the forthcoming events, some of which are apparently delayed/late, as the common populus has not yet revolted about the oil profit federal terrorists, nor other issues... The concern, is for the 40% population who comprehends the existance of emergency response protocol, and the 2% that will actually do something about it, there is absolutely no publications currently with any information on this topic. FEMA has eliminated print/stock, the nuke warning symbols are still posted, but only for power-plant issues. CD/etc are all whitewashed... Now, with this said... I know this symbol (from Fox) as being a warning that the xmit arrays and content feeds have been compromised... It has been standard since half a centuary ago... Applied, theorhetically, to the server array, if corporate isnt under siege. Now in the current time of war, when most of this is actually going to be put to use for the first time, and we need it (prior, of course, to going to the concentration camps (see '90's policy)) ... it is very obvious that *someone*gestapo*terrorist*feds* has eliminated virtually all digital information on all emergency, logistic, and any other related topic whatsoever... Google looses content constantly, we know what happened to archive.org's repositories from last fall, etc... And the only thing I have left of the CD/EMS indicators is an old photocopy with a few of the generic decals... So what does a simple human do when entities start declaring omega privleges in attempt to save the population? Or have the doomsday logistics been effectively terminated by the feds as well? I'm gonna bet hanging an amerikan flag upside down is now treason and punnishable by on-site rifle blasts to the back of the head. For discussion... -Wilfred L. Guerin Wilfred at Cryogen.com [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of sec_emergency02.gif"; x-mac-type="47494666"; x-mac-creator="4A565752] From nobody at dizum.com Fri Jun 14 20:20:06 2002 From: nobody at dizum.com (Nomen Nescio) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 05:20:06 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Theft Attempt or LEO Sting? Message-ID: e-golb.com resolves to 66.175.11.248. arin.net shows this as being in the netblk 66.175.0.0 - 66.175.63.255, belonging to Cedant Web Hosting, www.cedant.com, in Davis, CA, which is near Sacramento. At a minimum Cedant could be informed about this fraud, which is clearly outside of its AUP. You might even be able to get law enforcement involved, or perhaps contact the admin at Cedant and find out who has the address in question. From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sat Jun 15 05:06:38 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 07:06:38 -0500 Subject: CNN.com - S. Carolina orders police to stop plutonium - June 15, 2002 (State v Feds) Message-ID: <3D0B2DCE.83552E96@ssz.com> http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/06/15/sc.plutonium/index.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sat Jun 15 05:20:24 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 07:20:24 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Theft Attempt or LEO Sting? In-Reply-To: <20020615072124.76476.qmail@web13206.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Jun 2002, Morlock Elloi wrote: > Ultimately it's impossible to have security where one side is a machine > handling many live customers. Whatever central machine does can be emulated or > simulated in human's eyes - by subverting the machine itself, the transport > mechanism or the client machine/software. This is the ultimate limit of > squeezing out middlemen (aka e-commerce.) You completely overlook distributed networks where there isn't a central server. That's the next wave. As to squeezing out middlemen, your argument actually argues for their elimination, they're a security/subversion point that isn't under control of either of the 'real' parties in the transaction. No, 'middle man' is a consequence of technology, or the lack of it. As the technology matures you'll see the market reduce to something more 'theoretical' in nature; the two parties to each transaction and a neutral third party to resolve disputes. > The security is proportional to wetware cycles burned per transaction. Not even close. Consider cracking 802.11b for example. The trick to crack it isn't to focus on one transaction but to grab several million. Security isn't this simple to define. -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sat Jun 15 05:45:46 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 07:45:46 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Slashdot | Too Many Patents as Bad as Too Few (fwd) Message-ID: http://slashdot.org/articles/02/06/14/1744216.shtml?tid=155 -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sat Jun 15 05:49:49 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 07:49:49 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Salon.com Technology | Book Review - The end of the revolution (History of ICANN) (fwd) Message-ID: http://salon.com/tech/books/2002/06/14/root/index.html -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sat Jun 15 05:51:20 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 07:51:20 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Boy of 17 hacks into missile secrets... (fwd) Message-ID: http://www.thisislondon.com/dynamic/news/story.html?in_review_id=613066&in_review_text_id=582545 -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From trimlife at offer888.net Sat Jun 15 00:56:44 2002 From: trimlife at offer888.net (Trimlife) Date: 15 Jun 2002 07:56:44 -0000 Subject: Lose Inches and Look Great This Summer! Message-ID: <200206151057.g5FAvZ3n015427@ak47.algebra.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1085 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sat Jun 15 08:11:24 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 10:11:24 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Slashdot | The Economics of File Sharing (Liebowitz of Cato has 2nd thoughts...) (fwd) Message-ID: http://slashdot.org/articles/02/06/13/1336203.shtml?tid=141 -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sat Jun 15 08:11:58 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 10:11:58 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Slashdot | Using Cellular Traffic to Monitor Traffic Jams (fwd) Message-ID: http://slashdot.org/articles/02/06/13/0428229.shtml?tid=100 -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sat Jun 15 08:16:56 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 10:16:56 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Artist's rights? In-Reply-To: <3D08BB4D.4F3455DD@lsil.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Michael Motyka wrote: > Beyond absurd. A piece of art is like any other piece of property. But all property isn't equal/equivalent. There isn't a thing called 'property' that all other 'things' fall into. There's a story about a library and a couple of catalogs and a question of whether to list one catalog in another... -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sat Jun 15 08:17:57 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 10:17:57 -0500 (CDT) Subject: The Register - European Digital Rights Group Launches (fwd) Message-ID: http://theregister.co.uk/content/6/25712.html -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sat Jun 15 08:21:54 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 10:21:54 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Sci Journals, authors, internet In-Reply-To: <3D08DCA4.B0F74B88@ccs.bbk.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Ken Brown wrote: > PS in English these are "moral" rights - "morale" is borrowed from > French and means the mental state of an army :-) Actually it means their willingness to continue to fight. Whether they are happy about it or not is irrelevant. -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From frissell at panix.com Sat Jun 15 01:06:59 2002 From: frissell at panix.com (frissell) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 12:06:59 +0400 Subject: Your password Message-ID: From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sat Jun 15 10:23:22 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 12:23:22 -0500 Subject: Slashdot | Terahertz Imaging:Another Way to See Through Walls Message-ID: <3D0B780A.B4274D40@ssz.com> http://science.slashdot.org/science/02/06/15/1226229.shtml?tid=126 -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sat Jun 15 10:26:05 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 12:26:05 -0500 Subject: United Press International: System gets millionth DNA profile Message-ID: <3D0B78AD.9975A659@ssz.com> http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=14062002-013305-4519r -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sat Jun 15 10:27:38 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 12:27:38 -0500 Subject: NYPOST.COM National News: POLITICAL LEAK OF THAT OTHER KIND Associated Press Message-ID: <3D0B790A.688D2AC0@ssz.com> http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/17743.htm -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sat Jun 15 10:29:10 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 12:29:10 -0500 Subject: Top News at Netscape - Is scandal, fear inspiring malaise among Americans? Message-ID: <3D0B7966.55735AEB@ssz.com> http://webcenter.newssearch.netscape.com/aolns_display.adp?key=200206150834000289694_aolns.src -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ashwood at msn.com Sat Jun 15 13:51:21 2002 From: ashwood at msn.com (Joseph Ashwood) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 13:51:21 -0700 Subject: Harry Potter released unprotected References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020614113904.05829630@pop3.lvcm.com> Message-ID: <012b01c214ae$f1408e40$6501a8c0@josephas> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Schear" > >Harry Potter released unprotected > So, is this just a test or has at least one industry giant decided, as the > software industry learned long ago, that the cost of copy protection often > exceeds its value. I believe it's a test. The studio has determined that Harry Potter has already made a (sizable) profit, so using it for an experiment is acceptable. By testing on a big budget target they can now determine if copy-protection costs exceed value. > Time to short Macrovision (MVSN, NASDAQ NM)? In the past year the stock > has dropped from about $72 to about $14. I wonder if their $1.00 drop in > price on today's opening reflects this news? I don't think so, not yet at least. This looks like just a pilot program. Watch the normal piracy channels though, if Harry Potter shows up stronger than other releases Macrovision will be around a while. But if Harry Potter isn't substantially hit by piracy, then you might want to start shorting Macrovision, they'll start losing customers. Joe From steve at esoteric.ca Sat Jun 15 13:31:04 2002 From: steve at esoteric.ca (Steve Fulton) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 16:31:04 -0400 Subject: Emergency Indicators, Current Events In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20020615043652.00ab58b0@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020615162822.01b91460@postoffice.esoteric.ca> At 04:36 15/06/2002 -0500, you wrote: >[...] resulting from Fox's display of (attached image) upon the >takedown of their entire server array immediately after posting >*legitimate* inquiry/articles [...] I may just be out of the loop, but what event are you referring to? What is Fox? Details please, and be specific. If you can provide some sources as well, that would be great. -- Steve From rah at shipwright.com Sat Jun 15 15:01:45 2002 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 18:01:45 -0400 Subject: Theft Attempt or LEO Sting? In-Reply-To: <20020615072124.76476.qmail@web13206.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020615072124.76476.qmail@web13206.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: At 12:21 AM -0700 on 6/15/02, Morlock Elloi wrote: > The security is proportional to wetware cycles burned per transaction. I guess I don't think that's right. Sooner, hopefully rather than later, machines will be able to buy things from other machines using on-line cash. The risk will be absorbed by having a multitude of underwriters of cash instead of a single issuer for all cash, so you're partly right. But the point is, you can have an authenticated on-line transaction, at least at a risk low enough to move all kinds of money around safely. Cheers, RAH -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From moneymakwnfuh at itek.de Sat Jun 15 16:58:25 2002 From: moneymakwnfuh at itek.de (moneymakwnfuh at itek.de) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 18:58:25 -0500 Subject: Risk Free 5 Day Trial!!! Message-ID: <1024181905.18510@localhost.localdomain> Earn up to $1300 or more in your first week! No need or obligation to quit your present job! Click Here For Your Free 5 Day Trial, And Start Making Money Today!!! http://www.freewebland.com/huuj71/ plcurechaxf^nytroen(pbz From measl at mfn.org Sat Jun 15 17:30:58 2002 From: measl at mfn.org (measl at mfn.org) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 19:30:58 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Theft Attempt or LEO Sting? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Jun 2002, R. A. Hettinga wrote: > At 12:21 AM -0700 on 6/15/02, Morlock Elloi wrote: > > > > The security is proportional to wetware cycles burned per transaction. > > I guess I don't think that's right. > > Sooner, hopefully rather than later, machines will be able to buy things > from other machines using on-line cash. > > The risk will be absorbed by having a multitude of underwriters of cash > instead of a single issuer for all cash, so you're partly right. > > But the point is, you can have an authenticated on-line transaction, at > least at a risk low enough to move all kinds of money around safely. With all due respect, if this were [yet] true, I submit it would be happening. > > Cheers, > RAH > > > -- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin at mfn.org If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... -------------------------------------------------------------------- From Wemail4u at howamazing.com Sat Jun 15 19:53:00 2002 From: Wemail4u at howamazing.com (Wemail4u) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 19:53:00 Subject: IF YOU ARE NOT USING US YOU'RE LOSING MONEY!!adv Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2454 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Wemail4u at howamazing.com Sat Jun 15 19:53:10 2002 From: Wemail4u at howamazing.com (Wemail4u) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 19:53:10 Subject: IF YOU ARE NOT USING US YOU'RE LOSING MONEY!!adv Message-ID: <200206160253.g5G2r63n031140@ak47.algebra.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2088 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sat Jun 15 17:57:30 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 19:57:30 -0500 Subject: CNN.com - Feds arrest man linked to 'dirty bomb' suspect - June 15, 2002 Message-ID: <3D0BE27A.4175BC63@ssz.com> http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/06/15/padilla.associate/index.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sat Jun 15 17:59:09 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 19:59:09 -0500 Subject: Slashdot | Open-Source Pioneers Make Bid for .org Message-ID: <3D0BE2DD.490C5440@ssz.com> http://slashdot.org/articles/02/06/15/2147200.shtml?tid=95 -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sat Jun 15 18:00:42 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 20:00:42 -0500 Subject: Slashdot | Where Are You Publishing? Message-ID: <3D0BE33A.BFE89226@ssz.com> http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/02/06/15/2311221.shtml?tid=153 -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From morlockelloi at yahoo.com Sat Jun 15 20:12:50 2002 From: morlockelloi at yahoo.com (Morlock Elloi) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 20:12:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Movie Physics: "slime-filled bathtubs inside a giant tesla coil" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020616031250.19905.qmail@web13204.mail.yahoo.com> > objection is not the simulation. We just can't buy the explanation of why > the computer system bothers to maintain not only the simulation but > humanity. Supposedly, the computer system needs people as a power source. As all Matrix cognoscenti know, the machines use humans to extract otherwise unavailable entropy, randomness which is fed into fusion generators, that would otherwise get stuck because of the well known "quantum boredom" effect. It's superficially similar to mass media principles, and there is at least one PhD thesis that claims that machines use humans for entertainment. Of course, one cannot expect comprenhension of the above by those still stuck into geodesic mud. ===== end (of original message) Y-a*h*o-o (yes, they scan for this) spam follows: Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From remailer at aarg.net Sat Jun 15 20:40:08 2002 From: remailer at aarg.net (AARG! Anonymous) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 20:40:08 -0700 Subject: freedom Message-ID: Freedom's just another word, For nothin' left to lose. From rah at shipwright.com Sat Jun 15 18:55:03 2002 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 21:55:03 -0400 Subject: Theft Attempt or LEO Sting? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 7:30 PM -0500 on 6/15/02, measl at mfn.org wrote: > With all due respect, if this were [yet] true, I submit it would be > happening. What, "if we lived here, we'd be home now"? :-). Not necessarily. It just costs too much to do. Yet. That's why I say "risk adjusted transaction cost" so much. :-). Sooner or later, the accumulated code base, and falling semiconductor prices will overcome the lawyer's threats, and the banker's fear, greed will set in, and nature will take its course. Be nice to make it happen faster, though, certainly. Cheers, RAH -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Sat Jun 15 19:29:08 2002 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 22:29:08 -0400 Subject: Movie Physics: "slime-filled bathtubs inside a giant tesla coil" Message-ID: From: http://intuitor.com/moviephysics/index.html http://intuitor.com/moviephysics/matrix.html Movie Physics The Matrix (1999) Rated: [RP] (R for Retch) Starring: Keanu Reeves, Laurence Fishburne, Carrie-Anne Moss, Hugo Weaving, Joe Pantoliano Directed by: Andy Wachowski, Larry Wachowski Written by: Andy Wachowski, Larry Wachowski Humanity has been imprisoned by an evil computer system. People now live their lives confined to clear slime-filled bathtubs inside a giant tesla coil tended by gargantuan mechanical spiders. However, imprisonment isn't all bad. Everyone's connected to a sophisticated computer simulation of the late 20th century. This certainly beats a life of contemplating slime. Unfortunately, people are still restrained by the same old societal norms, petty rules, and laws of physics, that is except for a few enlightened hackers who've discovered reality, and are trying to free the rest of humanity. It's hard to argue with the physics of a movie like The Matrix. Considering the action takes place mostly in a computer simulation, flaws in physics can usually be dismissed as bad programming. It's positively diabolical. We're forced to accept gung-fu B-movie physics and can't argue because the action takes place in a computer simulation. Even so we can't resist a few comments. For instance at the beginning of the movie Trinity (one of the hackers) jumps five feet off the ground and pauses in mid air before kicking a policeman just below his neck. The policeman is swept off his feet and translates straight backwards into another cop. The two continue translating until they slam into a wall. A kick this far above the policeman's center of gravity would have caused him to rotated backwards. The slightly downward direction of the kick would not have swept him off his feet. What's more, since Trinity was about half the cop's mass and the collision of her foot with him was largely elastic (it didn't stick to him) Trinity should have bounced backward to conserve momentum. Okay, okay, we are forced to admit that Trinity is one of the enlightened hackers who can bend a few laws of physics inside the simulation. But the cop was just a regular joe and should have rotated. We could go on with minor criticisms of simulated events but our chief objection is not the simulation. We just can't buy the explanation of why the computer system bothers to maintain not only the simulation but humanity. Supposedly, the computer system needs people as a power source. This makes no sense. The food fed to humans would have far more energy content than the meager power available from humans. It would require even more energy to run the food delivery system not to mention maintain the slime tubs. Why would the machines bother? Surely there'd be a more effective way to extract energy from the food. But wait! It gets worse. Liquefied dead humans are fed back to the living ones. The movie comes dangerously close to implying that the computer/energy system is a giant perpetual motion machine. This is clearly impossible according to the second law of thermodynamics and likewise impossible for us to dismiss lightly. To cover itself, the movie throws in a quick mention that the human energy source powering the machines is combined with a source of fusion. This is like getting on a 747 and having the captain explain in great detail that the plane is rubber band powered, then add that it also has four jet engines. Guess which power source gets it off the ground, duh. The Matrix had real potential as a cerebral thriller. The pacing, suspense, and sense of tension in the first half are masterful. We would have preferred less oracle mumbo jumbo. We'd have also been more excited at the start of the great rescue scene if the characters had said they needed a bajillion terabytes of RAM and a case of K-7000 processors to fight the evil computer system instead of saying they needed lots of guns. We do concede that shooting and gung-fu are more fun to watch than keyboarding but isn't the point of sci-fi to push the boundaries of science? The Matrix fails to meet its potential because it just can't leave the artificial science in the computer simulation along with the artificial intelligence. It had a great start which unfortunately evolved into another mindless action piece. -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From MAILER-DAEMON at mail.hal-pc.org Sat Jun 15 20:31:36 2002 From: MAILER-DAEMON at mail.hal-pc.org (MAILER-DAEMON at mail.hal-pc.org) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 22:31:36 -0500 Subject: Lose 28 Pounds In 7 Days GUARANTEED!!! 32047 In-Reply-To: <00001d9f6586$00007777$000005d4@.> Message-ID: The domain home.com no longer accepts email. 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Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2456 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sun Jun 16 07:10:06 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 09:10:06 -0500 Subject: Slashdot | Debate Postponed On UK RIP Act Amendment Message-ID: <3D0C9C3E.C0CC91D2@ssz.com> http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/02/06/16/0221219.shtml?tid=158 -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From measl at mfn.org Sun Jun 16 07:59:26 2002 From: measl at mfn.org (measl at mfn.org) Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 09:59:26 -0500 (CDT) Subject: DES In-Reply-To: <20020616122027.29512.qmail@web21210.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Jun 2002, gfgs pedo wrote: > Does any 1 have a good referene to the linear & > differential cryptanaysis of DES or any example or > illustration showing the same for DES? http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&q=differential+cryptanalysis Also, your nearest bookstore can order "Differential Cryptanalysis", I don't have it in front of me, but IIRC, it's by Shamir, Biham, and ... > > Regards DATA. Hrmmm. A TV character asking for help? How appropriate... -- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin at mfn.org If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rah at shipwright.com Sun Jun 16 07:38:47 2002 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 10:38:47 -0400 Subject: Movie Physics: "slime-filled bathtubs inside a giant tesla coil" In-Reply-To: <20020616031250.19905.qmail@web13204.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020616031250.19905.qmail@web13204.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: At 8:12 PM -0700 on 6/15/02, Morlock Elloi wrote: > Of course, one cannot expect comprenhension of the above by those still stuck > into geodesic mud. Sticks and mud, &cet. Have a nice day. :-). Cheers, RAH -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sun Jun 16 09:04:57 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 11:04:57 -0500 Subject: TIME.com: Inside an al-Qaeda Bust Message-ID: <3D0CB729.B9591B12@ssz.com> http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,262913,00.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. 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CUM NOW http://www.freewebland.com/nh57/rrr plcurechaxf^nytroen(pbz From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Sun Jun 16 13:44:04 2002 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 13:44:04 -0700 Subject: Harry Potter released unprotected In-Reply-To: <012b01c214ae$f1408e40$6501a8c0@josephas> Message-ID: <003501c21576$93a05e00$0100a8c0@LUCKYVAIO> Joseph Ashwood wrote: > This looks like just a > pilot program. Watch the normal piracy channels though, if > Harry Potter shows up stronger than other releases > Macrovision will be around a while. But if Harry Potter isn't > substantially hit by piracy, then you might want to start > shorting Macrovision, they'll start losing customers. I am confused. AFAICT, the majority of movie piracy today takes place via DivX from DVD's. How does Macrovision even play a role in this? Thanks, --Lucky From jaenicke at openssl.org Sun Jun 16 04:55:48 2002 From: jaenicke at openssl.org (Lutz Jaenicke) Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 13:55:48 +0200 Subject: [ANNOUNCE] OpenSSL 0.9.7 beta 2 released Message-ID: <20020616135547.A3908@openssl.org> The second beta release of OpenSSL 0.9.7 is now available from the OpenSSL FTP site . Quite a lot of code changed between the 0.9.6 release and the 0.9.7 release, so a series of 3 or 4 beta releases is planned before the final release. To make sure that it will work correctly, please test this version (especially on less common platforms), and report any problems to . Application developers that use OpenSSL to provide cryptographic routines or SSL/TLS support are kindly requested to test their software against this new release to make sure that necessary adaptions can be made. Changes between 0.9.6x and 0.9.7 include: o New library section OCSP. o Complete rewrite of ASN1 code. o CRL checking in verify code and openssl utility. o Extension copying in 'ca' utility. o Flexible display options in 'ca' utility. o Provisional support for international characters with UTF8. o Support for external crypto devices ('engine') is no longer a separate distribution. o New elliptic curve library section. o New AES (Rijndael) library section. o Change DES API to clean up the namespace (some applications link also against libdes providing similar functions having the same name). Provide macros for backward compatibility (will be removed in the future). o Unifiy handling of cryptographic algorithms (software and engine) to be available via EVP routines for asymmetric and symmetric ciphers. o NCONF: new configuration handling routines. o Change API to use more 'const' modifiers to improve error checking and help optimizers. o Finally remove references to RSAref. o Reworked parts of the BIGNUM code. o Support for new engines: Broadcom ubsec, Accelerated Encryption Processing, IBM 4758. o Extended and corrected OID (object identifier) table. o PRNG: query at more locations for a random device, automatic query for EGD style random sources at several locations. o SSL/TLS: allow optional cipher choice according to server's preference. o SSL/TLS: allow server to explicitly set new session ids. o SSL/TLS: support Kerberos cipher suites (RFC2712). o SSL/TLS: allow more precise control of renegotiations and sessions. o SSL/TLS: add callback to retrieve SSL/TLS messages. o SSL/TLS: add draft AES ciphersuites (disabled unless explicitly requested). -- Lutz Jaenicke jaenicke at openssl.org OpenSSL Project http://www.openssl.org/~jaenicke/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From specials at 1sourcedeals.com Sun Jun 16 15:12:11 2002 From: specials at 1sourcedeals.com (Hot Savings) Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 15:12:11 -0700 Subject: Hot Savings from 1Source Message-ID: <200206162204.g5GM4W3n030496@ak47.algebra.com> Dear Friends, As a valued member of Dental Plan and it's affiliate network, we are proud to bring you news of our latest relationship with 1Source, and automatically enroll you in their fabulous network. We thought you'd be interested because they too deliver valuable discounts, special offers, sweepstakes, and entertainment reviews from companies such as AOL/Time Warner, AT&T, Sears, BMG, American Express, Chase and Earthlink! So you can begin gaining all the advantages of membership, 1Source has already enrolled you to receive your emails introducing you to their "Hot Savings". If you do not wish to receive any email offers from the 1Source Network, simply click on the link below for an automatic deletion. It's that easy. Your Friends at Dental Plan. If you do not wish to receive email from 1Source, please click or copy and paste the following address into your browser: http://www.1sourcedeals.com/cgi-bin/redirect.cgi?camp_id=5&url=http://www.1sourcedeals.com/cgi-bin/remove.cgi?camp_id=5 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1433 bytes Desc: not available URL: From eugen at leitl.org Sun Jun 16 07:05:55 2002 From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl) Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 16:05:55 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Sci Journals, authors, internet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Jun 2002, Anonymous wrote: > There is a reason why the peer review process and the academic journals > are still needed. Online preprint archives are useless for the layman. Laymen don't read online preprint archives. They stick with popular science stuff (I read Science). If you're even marginally competent the kooks have a telltale signature, allowing you to filter out 90% of kook science with a cursory glance. Names-based reputation is prevalent (I guess no one has yet bothered to fake submissions often enough so that people use digital signatures to authenticate authors of submitted papers) and seems to work. Typically everybody knows everybody else in a small speciality, and newcomers are very visible as such. They either rapidly establish a reputation track as valuable contributors, or fail to do so. Informally, that distributed database seems to work well. It is very easy to offer a for-profit peer review service of arXiv.org, btw (just offer a number of arXiv links digitally signed to your identity to paid subscribers). It's just there is not a market for it still, because the dead tree media are hogging the ecological niche for it, having been there first. You need a reputation track before people come to you, and you only get a reputation track if people come to you. > Only experts can use these archives with safety; they are able to sift > the wheat from the chaff. From zach at thezs.com Sun Jun 16 14:10:07 2002 From: zach at thezs.com (zach at thezs.com) Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 16:10:07 -0500 Subject: ADV: Saludos Amigos! Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4989 bytes Desc: not available URL: From subsidies at consultant.com Sun Jun 16 14:26:04 2002 From: subsidies at consultant.com (Canadian Subsidy Directory) Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 17:26:04 -0400 Subject: Available; Subsidies, Grants, Loans, Financing and General help. Message-ID: <200206161634.g5GGYN802597@plugngo.travelnet.ca> MG PUBLISHING 4865 HWY 138,R.R 1 ST-ANDREWS WEST ONTARIO, KOC 2A0 PRESS RELEASE CANADIAN SUBSIDY DIRECTORY YEAR 2002 EDITION Legal Deposit-National Library of Canada ISBN 2-922870-02-02 (2002) ISBN 2-922870-01-4 (2001) M.G. Publishing is offering to the public a revised edition of the Canadian Subsidy Directory, a guide containing more than 2800 direct and indirect financial subsidies, grants and loans offered by government departments and agencies, foundations, associations and organizations. In this new 2002 edition all programs are well described. 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If you have previously unsubscribed and are still receiving this message, you may email our Abuse Control Center, or call 1-888-763-2497, or write us at: NoSpam, 6484 Coral Way, Miami, FL, 33155". 7337 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From InsightontheNews at broadbandpublisher.com Mon Jun 17 06:07:34 2002 From: InsightontheNews at broadbandpublisher.com (Insight on the News) Date: 17 Jun 2002 09:07:34 -0400 Subject: Insight on the News Email Edition Message-ID: <200206170907431.SM00688@broadbandpublisher.com> INSIGHT NEWS ALERT! New articles from Insight on the News are now online http://www.insightmag.com ............................................... Folks, last week we put out our Spring Double Issue, so you won占퐐 find a new issue today. But you will find some outstanding stories you may have missed. . . . Ralph de Toledano占퐏 blistering expose of the ACLU, http://www.insightmag.com/news/255123.html Jamie Dettmer占퐏 remarkable story on damage control inside the FBI and CIA post Sept. 11, http://www.insightmag.com/news/255121.html and Doug Burton占퐏 Symposium on whether the NEA discriminates against its religious members http://www.insightmag.com/news/255099.html占퐐o name just a few. Until next time, I占퐉 still your Newsman in Washington. ............................................... CIA AND FBI PLAY THE BLAME GAME Jamie Dettmer reveals that the fabled Clinton "war room," with its alert media reflexes and craftiness in unleashing quick ripostes to potentially damaging stories, had nothing on these spooks and G-men! http://www.insightmag.com/news/255121.html ............................................... DOLLARS AND SENSE Sean Paige writes that having blundered once already with a Susan B. Anthony dollar coin that confused people by looking and feeling too much like a quarter, the folks in Washington seem to have produced yet another dollar coin that hasn't caught on with anyone other than coin collectors. http://www.insightmag.com/news/255106.html ............................................... TAXPAYERS GETTING DRILLED ON FLORIDA LEASE DEAL Sean Paige has discovered that environmental groups are purring like kittens (kittens that ate the canary) after the Bush administration agreed to a $235 million taxpayer buyback of gas and mineral leases on public lands in Florida, where the president's brother, Jeb Bush, just happens to be governor. http://www.insightmag.com/news/255105.html ======================================== Liberals & Homosexuals Conspire to Subvert Seminaries Liberals who blame celibacy for the Catholic Church's pedophilia scandals are missing the real cause: seminaries that actively encourage homosexuality, moral laxity, and theological dissent all in the name of post-Vatican II "renewal." In Goodbye, Good Men, Michael S. Rose demonstrates that such seminaries are by no means rare. Help defend Christianity from assault by those who would subvert its message from within. Save over 30%! Order now. http://www.conservativebookservice.com?sour_cd=INT002501 ======================================== WHAT占폮 NOT TO LIKE ABOUT A TREATY THAT WILL 占폜ND DISCRIMINATION AGAINST WOMEN?占� Janice Crouse and Wendy Wright tell us that on the surface, CEDAW looks advantageous to all women. What's not to like about a treaty that would supposedly "end discrimination against women"? If this was what CEDAW really was about, we all would applaud it. But it's not. http://www.insightmag.com/news/255108.html ............................................... PRO&CON: IS THE NEA FAIR TO ITS RELIGIOUS MEMBERS? http://www.insightmag.com/news/255099.html BOB CHASE SAYS YES: The record shows that NEA treats all teachers 占� both union and nonunion 占� with respect. Persecution? The form used by the Ohio Education Association to determine whether a religious objector has a legitimate case under the law is less probing, less intrusive and far shorter than the information the National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation advises individuals to provide. http://www.insightmag.com/news/255100.html STEFAN GLEASON SAYS NO: The NEA's primary goal is to impose its radical social agenda on public education. In May, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission determined that the National Education Association systematically discriminates against teachers who have a religious objection to joining or supporting that teachers union. This confirmed once again that the nation's largest teachers union has a bias against people of faith who do not support its radical social agenda. http://www.insightmag.com/news/255101.html ............................................... CONNERLY LEADS THE FIGHT FOR A COLOR-BLIND SOCIETY Deroy Murdoch asks what color are you? Black? White? Brown? Yellow? None of my concern, you say? If so, why is your ethnicity the government's business? http://www.insightmag.com/news/255107.html ............................................... ROTHMAN WARY OF SHIFT IN CULTURE In an exclusive interview by Stephen goode, scholar Stanley Rothman says there has been a change in society and a breakdown in the social order that one day will turn around, but he does not know when. http://www.insightmag.com/news/255102.html You have received this newsletter because you have a user name and password at Insight on the News. To unsubscribe from this newsletter, visit "http://www.insightmag.com/main.cfm?include=unsubscribe". You may also log into Insight on the News and edit your account preferences on the Web. If you have forgotten or don't know your user name and password, it will be emailed to you after visiting the following link: http://www.insightmag.com/main.cfm?include=emailPassword&serialNumber=16oai891z5&email=cypherpunks at ssz.com From mv at cdc.gov Mon Jun 17 10:24:10 2002 From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret)) Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 10:24:10 -0700 Subject: Bill of Rights vandalism, supremes don't ride busses Message-ID: <3D0E1B3A.7C5C3535@cdc.gov> Given this degradation of the Bill of Rights, it would be pretty cool to put stickers on bus seats, or in bus-stops, reminding people --whether citizens or not, and regardless of their albedo-- of their rights. Of course, this would be considered vandalism. Writing the Bill of Rights was treason at the time, of course. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&ncid=716&e=1&u=/ap/20020617/ap_on_go_su_co/scotus_bus_search Supreme Court Rules on Bus Searches Mon Jun 17,12:32 PM ET By GINA HOLLAND, Associated Press Writer WASHINGTON (AP) - The Supreme Court ruled Monday that police who want to look for drugs or evidence of other crimes do not have to first inform public transportation passengers of their legal rights. The ruling gives police guidance on how to approach and search passengers, a case with renewed interest as officers seek out possible terrorists on public transportation. The case focused on the difference between police questioning on a bus and in a less confining environment, such as a sidewalk. In both instances, police would need permission or probable cause to search someone, but the justices rejected arguments that passengers, confined to small spaces, might feel coerced to go along. The court ruled 6-3 that officers in Tallahassee, Fla., were within their rights as they questioned and searched two men aboard a Greyhound bus in 1999. Justice Anthony M. Kennedy, writing for the majority, said the passengers did not have to be told that they didn't have to cooperate. The Bush administration invoked the war on terrorism in asking the Supreme Court to get involved in the case, but the court majority did not specifically refer to that argument. Kennedy did note that public transportation riders understand the risks from potential criminals in their midst. "Bus passengers answer officers' questions and otherwise cooperate not because of coercion, but because the passengers know that their participation enhances their own safety and the safety of those around them," Kennedy wrote. Three officers boarded the bus, bound from Fort Lauderdale to Detroit. One officer introduced himself to Christopher Drayton and Clifton Brown, and told them he was looking for illegal drugs and weapons. He asked to pat down the men's baggy clothing. The men agreed, and officers felt hard objects on the men's legs that turned out to be packets of cocaine. "It is beyond question that had this encounter occurred on the street, it would be constitutional. The fact that an encounter takes place on a bus does not on its own transform standard police questioning of citizens into an illegal seizure," Kennedy wrote for the court. On the street, the person being stopped could simply refuse to cooperate and keep walking. Unless police had good reason to pursue the person further, they would be free to go. Drayton and Brown argued that they did not have the same option while seated on the bus. They were convicted and sentenced on drug charges. The 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ( news - web sites) ruled the cocaine should not have been admitted as evidence, because the officers failed to tell the men they were not required to cooperate. That court said the encounter violated the Constitution's ban on unreasonable searches and seizures. Monday's ruling overturns that decision. In a dissent, Justice David H. Souter said that three officers "pinned-in" passengers on the stopped bus. "The situation is like the one in the alley, with civilians in close quarters unable to move effectively, being told their cooperation is expected," wrote Souter, who was joined by Justices John Paul Stevens ( news - web sites) and Ruth Bader Ginsburg ( news - web sites). He said because of terrorist concerns, airplane passengers know they must submit to searches. "The commonplace precautions of air travel have not, thus far, been justified for ground transportation," Souter wrote. Donna Shea, legal director of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws, said police will use the ruling as justification for aggressive questioning. "I think police will continue intimidating passengers," she said. The ruling "gives bus passengers a lesser expectation of privacy. I think that's unconstitutional." The case is United States v. Drayton, 01-631. From emailaddresses98037 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 17 07:33:16 2002 From: emailaddresses98037 at yahoo.com (Jr Panchadsaram) Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 10:33:16 -0400 Subject: >>>OVER 14.5 MILLION OPT-IN EMAIL ADDRESSES...PLUS $2,000 IN FREE SOFTWARE! Message-ID: <200206171439.JAA00240@einstein.ssz.com> Dear, cypherpunks at ssz.com Would you like to get tens of thousands of new visitors to your web site daily? Below is everything you will ever need to market your product or service over the Internet! Besides that...It's the only real way to market on the Internet...Period! 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HURRY!.....OFFER ENDS IN 3 DAYS To find out more information, Do not respond by email. Instead, Please Call our marketing department at.... 1- (203) - 467-5378 Cybernet Marketing This message is a one time mailing and will never be repeated again. From ian at zti.co.za Mon Jun 17 02:47:22 2002 From: ian at zti.co.za (Ian Douglas) Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 11:47:22 +0200 (GMT) Subject: [IRR] SA passes Electronic Communications and Transactions Bill Message-ID: Hi All Thought Ant Brooks would say something about this but since he did not, here is a quick summary with comments. Please do not distribute outside this list as I have supplied basically the same thing to a paying customer for inclusion in their newsletter... Hopefully I didn't screw up factually. SA passes Electronic Communications and Transactions Bill On 7 June 2002, the SA Parliament passed the ECT bill [1], against fierce opposition, especially from within the Internet industry. While the bill does have some positive aspects, some of its other far-ranging provisions have aroused ire amongst industry old-timers and professionals. The bill provides legislation in the following areas: * Planning and implementation of a national e-strategy, including provision of internet access to disadvantaged communitites. * Electronic transactions and signatures, which are given legal standing. * E-Government services. * Cryptography providers. This section makes it illegal to supply cryptographic products without registering, and paying a fee. * Authentication service providers, and standards for being an accredited Authentication Service Provider. See "Cryptography". * Electronic transactions and e-commerce, including protections for consumers. * Spam seems to be given "opt-out" status, not "opt-in", although other provisions try to limit the use of "personal information". * So-called "Critical Databases". * The Domain Name Authority and administration, where between 8 and 16 [**] people will do the work now done by one man. The sub-text is that new subdomains will be created and auctioned off, although this is not explicitly mentioned. The cell-phone industry provides a clue. * Limitations on the liability of Internet Service Providers. The Service Provider is seen as a "mere conduit" as long as, amongst other provisions, he does not "modify the data contained in the transmission". The effect of this provision on ISPs who automatically remove viruses from client email is not specified. ISPs do not have a general obligation to monitor traffic on or through their systems. * The appointment of "Cyber Inspectors", who can enter ISP secure server rooms with a warrant and poke their noses wherever they like. * Cyber Crime, which outlaws amongst others, hacking, cracking and malicious code. The provisions which have attracted the most flak revolve around the new .za domain name authority. It is currently run by Mike Lawrie, who has been doing it since the commercial internet arrived in South Africa. He has ICANN approval. He is so upset by the provisions of the new bill that he has threatened to "pull the plug". [2] So far this has not happened. [1] http://www.gov.za/gazette/bills/2002/b8-02.pdf [2] http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=31&art_id=qw10230782404 92B261 [**] Since writing the above, the Gov has ammended Section 10, which deals with the .za namespace. They dropped the number of people from "8 -- 16" down to 9. Also other changes. http://co.za/ect/chapterX-2002-06-07.html Uniforum, a non-profit which runs the .co.za domains, have posted their suggested ammendments to the ammendments, and invited comment from current .co.za domain holders. http://co.za/ect/chapterX-comments-2002-06-07.html Naturally I had quite a bit to say on the topic.. :-) Furthermore, my mind had mulled over other aspects of the bill since I wrote the above last Tuesday, and other issues came up: 1. Only registered cryptography suppliers may supply cryptographic products to South Africans. I suppose this could mean that Apache will not be allowed, leaving the field to Microsoft... I can't see any open-source software movement registering with every tinpot government around the world. Nor can I see Bruce Schneier registering to supply Blowfish or Twofish... The law is written aimed at suppliers, with no comment about the legal position of users of unregistered crypto products. [Ultimate objective: All your secrets are belong to us?] 2. If spam is given legal opt-out status, this puts ISPs in a difficult position, and could lead to SA becoming a spammer's haven. Cheers, Ian p.s. I was going to use a controversial Subj: line, like "SA Government goes berserk" or somesuch but decided against it.. :-) -------------------------------------------------------------- ian at zti.co.za http://www.zti.co.za Zero to Infinity - The net.works Phone/Fax +27-21-948-3809 _______________________________________________ Irregulars mailing list Irregulars at tb.tf http://tb.tf/mailman/listinfo/irregulars --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From cypherpunks at Algebra.COM Mon Jun 17 11:30:30 2002 From: cypherpunks at Algebra.COM (cypherpunks at Algebra.COM) Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 13:30:30 -0500 Subject: Save Up to 70% on Your Current Term Life Insurance. Message-ID: <612F9J1EQ.4NAL8A04.cypherpunks@algebra.com> Save up to 75% on your Term Life Insurance! Compare rates from top insurance companies around the country In our life and times, it's important to plan for your family's future, while being comfortable financially. Choose the right Life Insurance policy today. Click the link below to compare the lowest rates and save up to 75% COMPARE YOUR COVERAGE http://216.240.140.55/lifequotes/627208/ You'll be able to compare rates and get a free application in less than a minute! *Get your FREE instant quotes... *Compare the lowest prices, then... *Select a company and Apply Online. GET A FREE QUOTE NOW! You can't predict the future, but you can always prepare for it. http://216.240.140.55/lifequotes/627208/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1662 bytes Desc: not available URL: From schear at lvcm.com Mon Jun 17 13:49:51 2002 From: schear at lvcm.com (Steve Schear) Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 13:49:51 -0700 Subject: Harry Potter released unprotected In-Reply-To: <003501c21576$93a05e00$0100a8c0@LUCKYVAIO> References: <012b01c214ae$f1408e40$6501a8c0@josephas> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020617134505.0562fe88@pop3.lvcm.com> At 01:44 PM 6/16/2002 -0700, Lucky Green wrote: >Joseph Ashwood wrote: > > This looks like just a > > pilot program. Watch the normal piracy channels though, if > > Harry Potter shows up stronger than other releases > > Macrovision will be around a while. But if Harry Potter isn't > > substantially hit by piracy, then you might want to start > > shorting Macrovision, they'll start losing customers. > >I am confused. AFAICT, the majority of movie piracy today takes place >via DivX from DVD's. How does Macrovision even play a role in this? Macrovision only prevents some VCRs from recording DVD content, a decreasing market. Video "correctors" are widely available for under $60 to neuter Macrovision protection. All DVD ripping SW bypasses any Macrovision protection. steve From rah at shipwright.com Mon Jun 17 13:49:28 2002 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 16:49:28 -0400 Subject: [IRR] SA passes Electronic Communications and Transactions Bill Message-ID: Notice the crypto-provider registration bit, below... Cheers, RAH --- begin forwarded text From muyi3030 at qrio.com Mon Jun 17 13:34:00 2002 From: muyi3030 at qrio.com (MR.MUYIWA IGE) Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 22:34:00 +0200 Subject: SINCERE ASSISTANCE NEEDED Message-ID: <200206172038.PAA03523@einstein.ssz.com> I regret any initial embarrassment my letter might cause you, as we have not had any correspondence before this time. My name is MUYIWA IGE, the son of the slain Attorney General and Chief Justice of Nigeria, Chief Bola Ige. I got your contact in my search for a reliable and trustworthy partner who l can do business with. I am contacting you in view of the fact that we will be of great assistance to each other. I currently have in my possession the sum of Forty-Five million US Dollars (US$45 million) cash which l intend to invest, specifically in your country although I do not know in which area yet. This money came as a payback contract deal between my Late father and a Russian Firm for a contract executed in the Country's multi-billion dollars Ministry of Justice Complex in Abuja. The Russian Partners returned my father's share of USD$45,000,000.00 after his death and it was lodged in my father's security company of where l am director at the moment. Now after my Dads burial on Friday 11th January 2002 and as the son of late attorney General, the president and commander in chief of the armed forces in Nigeria (Chief Olusegun Obasanjo) has asked me to submit all documents belonging to the Federal Government in my daddy's custody for easy assessment and replacement of the Attorney General. In view of this, l acted fast to withdraw the US$45,000,000.00 from the company's vault and deposited it in another Security Company and marked it as film and film materials. I have declared my father's Security Company bankrupt. There is no record of this money traceable by the Government because no document exists showing that we received the money from the Russians. Due to the current situation in the country, it has become quite impossible for me to make use of this money within. This informs my decision to transfer the money out of the country for investment. Please contact me as a matter of urgency to enable us discuss this transfer in details. You are at liberty to discuss with me what your percentage share of the funds will be. Please reply by above email. Please do treat this as highly confidential while you consider the proposal. I look forward to a mutually beneficial relationship. Best Regards MUYIWA IGE From nfvhotweb at hotmail.com Mon Jun 17 19:49:55 2002 From: nfvhotweb at hotmail.com (pxxmweb site maker) Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 22:49:55 -0400 Subject: Professional Web Design - $50.00 sqmq Message-ID: <200206180249.g5I2npAX025156@ak47.algebra.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4715 bytes Desc: not available URL: From anarchie at metaverse.org Mon Jun 17 06:58:18 2002 From: anarchie at metaverse.org (Peter Tonoli) Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 23:58:18 +1000 (EST) Subject: AP is still alive In-Reply-To: <200206160816.g5G8G0O20133@mailserver2.hushmail.com> Message-ID: Seems that AP may be in practice right now.. JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Police are probing an Israeli gambling ring suspected of putting its money on a grim game of chance -- predicting the target of the next Palestinian suicide bombing. The betting ring was set up in the southern Israeli town of Kiryat Malachi, where local gamblers can fill out a form that gives odds for different cities and regions in Israel, the Tel Aviv weekly Zman Tel Aviv reported Friday. From ashwood at msn.com Tue Jun 18 01:18:06 2002 From: ashwood at msn.com (Joseph Ashwood) Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 01:18:06 -0700 Subject: Harry Potter released unprotected References: <003501c21576$93a05e00$0100a8c0@LUCKYVAIO> Message-ID: <02b701c216a0$d82e8120$6501a8c0@josephas> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lucky Green" > Joseph Ashwood wrote: > > This looks like just a > > pilot program. Watch the normal piracy channels though, if > > Harry Potter shows up stronger than other releases > > Macrovision will be around a while. But if Harry Potter isn't > > substantially hit by piracy, then you might want to start > > shorting Macrovision, they'll start losing customers. > > I am confused. AFAICT, the majority of movie piracy today takes place > via DivX from DVD's. How does Macrovision even play a role in this? In it's realistic form, Macrovision has nothing to do with any of it. However since it is current industry protocol to use Macrovision copy-protection, Macrovision is of interest. In truth, this isn't even a question of copy-protection, there's plenty of evidence that none of that works. Instead this is about a technology, and a company, the technology is the Macrovision copy-protection technology, and the company explicitly involved is Macrovision. Macrovision makes the bulk of their profits from this copy-protection technology, and since it is a copy-protection technology it is of general interest to many cypherpunks, even if not in any real way. (see the other reply regarding picture corrections). Because of Macrovision's heavy reliance on the copy-protection technology for profits, an undermining of that critical asset will greatly diminish the value of the company, and so diminish the stock price. For any other purpose, there's basically no reason for this thread at all. Hope this helped a bit. Joe From philijons3 at email.com Tue Jun 18 02:17:04 2002 From: philijons3 at email.com (PHILIP JONHSON) Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 02:17:04 Subject: INVESTMENT Message-ID: <200206180021.TAA06549@einstein.ssz.com> ATTN: PRESIDENT. I WOULD LIKE TO BEGIN BY WAY OF INTRODUCTION..MY NAME IS MR .PHILIP JOHNSON,A NATIVE OF CAPETOWN IN SOUTHAFRICA AND A SENIOR EMPPLOYEE OF THE SOUTH AFRICA MINISTRY OF ENERGY AND MINERAL RESOURCES CURRENTLEY HERE IN AMSTERDAM-NETHERLANDS ON A ONE YEAR STUDY LEAVE. I AM WRITING THIS LETTER TO SOLICIT YOUR COORPERATION IN ORDER TO REDEEM AN INVESTMENT INTEREST CURRENTLY BEING HELD UNDER TRUST WITH THE SOUTH AFRICA MINISTRY OF ENERGY AND MINERAL RESOUSES. THE SAID INVESTMENT NOW VALUED AT US$35.500.00 (THIRTY FIVE MILLION FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND UNITED STATES DOLLARS) WAS ORIGINALLY PURCHASED BY ONE MR ROBINSON MOORE LEASED TO THE FREE STATE CONSOLIDATED MINING CORPORATION IN 1975 FOR 25 YEARS. SINCE THE MATURITY OF THIS CONTRACT IN AUGUST 1999,SEVERAL ATTEMPTS HAVE BEEN MADE WITHOUT SUCCESS TO CONTACT MR MOORE OR ANY OF HIS CLOSE RELATIVES ,IN WHOSE FAVOURE THE INVESTMENT CASH VALUE COULD BE PAID TO. MY PARTNER WHO IS THE ACCOUNT DIRECTOR AT THE MINISTRY OF ENERGY AND MINERAL RESOURCES AND TWO OTHERS COLLEAGUE, HAVE INITIATED THE PROCESS OF FILLING ACLAIM FOR THIS MONEY,WITH THE HOPE OF HAVING THIS FUND TRANSFERRED INTO A SAFE OFFSHORE ACCOUNT . WE COULD FILE A CLAIM FOR THIS MONEY WITH THE MINISTRY CLAIMING THAT YOU WERE APPOINTED BY MR MOORE TO BE THE BENEFICIARY TO THIS FUNDS.AS SOON AS THE CLAIM IS APPROVED,THE STATED SUM OF US$35.5MILLION WILL BE TRANSFERED INTO AN ACCOUNT OF YOU CHOICE,AFTER WHICH MY COLLEAGUES AND I SHALL TO MEET WITH YOU FOR THE DISBURSEMENT OF THE FUNDS. SINCE THE MONEY WILL BE IN YOUR CUSTODY,YOU HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO ENSURE THAT MY COLLEAGUES AND I RECEIVE 70% OF THE TOTAL SUM WHILE YOU KEEP THE REMAINING 20% FOR YOUR ASSISTANCE WHILE 10% IS SET ASIDE FOR EXPENCES.. PLEASE WE URGE YOU TO KEEP THIS AFFAIR VERY CONFIDENTIAL,BECAUSE WE ARE STILL IN ACTIVE GOVERNMENT SERVICE. I WANT TO ASSURE YOU THAT MY PARTNERS ARE IN A POSITION TO MAKE THE PAYMENT OF THIS CLAIM POSSIBLE, PROVIDED YOU AGREE TO MEET WITH US AND GIVE US THE GUARANTEE THAT OUR SHARE WILL BE WELL SECURED IN YOUR CARE . BE REST ASSURED THAT THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT IN VIEW OF THIS CLAIM . IT IS PERFECTELY SAFE WITH NO RISK INVOLVED,AND IT IS NOT SUBJECT TO ANY ENQUIRY, AS MY PARTNERS WILL BE HANDLING THE CLAIMS DIRECTLY ON YOUR BEHALF IN SOUTH AFRICA. PLEASE ACKNOWLEDGE THE RECEIPT OF THIS LETTER BY PHONE ON MY CONFIDENTIAL TELEPHONE 0031613506987 LOOKING FORWARD TO YOUR PROMPT REPLY. YOURS TRULY, MR PHILIP JOHNSON reply to philijons2 at email.com From camelknight at Flashmail.com Mon Jun 17 14:15:01 2002 From: camelknight at Flashmail.com (Annie Momoh) Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 05:15:01 +0800 Subject: cypherpunk,FREE 4 Week Sample of HGH ! Message-ID: <200206172130.OAA21459@svr2.imperialbank.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2582 bytes Desc: not available URL: From specials at allbestcheapstuff.com Tue Jun 18 02:28:28 2002 From: specials at allbestcheapstuff.com (Specials) Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 05:28:28 -0400 Subject: Over 40,000 Products In Stock! Message-ID: <200206182119.QAA17560@einstein.ssz.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4954 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Tue Jun 18 04:46:51 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 06:46:51 -0500 Subject: The Register - UK snoop charter: We're already getting all the data anyway... Message-ID: <3D0F1DAB.5CB2C190@ssz.com> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/25761.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From derricwatson at hotmail.com Tue Jun 18 15:59:55 2002 From: derricwatson at hotmail.com (derricwatson at hotmail.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 06:59:55 -1600 Subject: Ink Prices Got You Down?XZE Message-ID: <000072774943$000054aa$000001df@sports-central.org> Hey there, If you're like me, you're sick an tired of going down to the store to find out that your printer cartridges cost more than the printer itself! I know how you feel - I print over 500 pages a day, and it feels like there is a vacuum sucking money out of my wallet! Now, this has got to stop because I know it doesn't cost the printer companies anywhere near what it costs me to do my office and school work! Well, it finally has. The SUPERINK solution. 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Thank You and Sorry for any inconvenience. ****************************************************************** From subscribe at verba-volant.net Tue Jun 18 09:02:35 2002 From: subscribe at verba-volant.net (subscribe at verba-volant.net) Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 12:02:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Verba Volant Message-ID: <200206181602.g5IG2ZE01769@locust.minder.net> The following email address, "cypherpunks at minder.net" has been removed from the Verba Volant Newsletter list. If you did not cancel your email address or you wish to continue receiving Verba Volant, please send an e-mail to subscribe at verba-volant.net Thank you and best regards, Verba Volant From jos_edw04 at mail.com Tue Jun 18 14:54:45 2002 From: jos_edw04 at mail.com (SANDRA SAVIMBI) Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 14:54:45 -0700 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <200206181215.g5ICF7IM004650@ak47.algebra.com> Dear Friend, This letter may come to you as a surprise due to the fact that we have not yet met. The message could be strange but reel if you pay some attention to it. I could have notified you about it at least for the sake of your integrity. Please accept my sincere apologies. In bringing this message of goodwill to you, I have to say that I have no intentions of causing you any pains. I am Ms. Sandra savimbi, daughter of the late rebel leader Jonas savimbi of Angola who was killed on the 22nd of febuary 2002 . I managed to get your contact details through "The World Business Journal", a journal of the Johannesburg Chamber of Commerce in South Africa in the time I was desperately looking for a trustworthy person to assist me in this confidential business. my late father, Jonas savimbi was able to deposit a large sum of money in differnt banks in europe My father is presently death and the movement of his family members (including me) is restricted. We are forbidden to either travel abroad or out of our localities. Presently, the US$25,600,000.00 twentyfive, MILLION, six HUNDRED DOLLARS my father transfered to Netherlands is safe and is in a security firm. I am therefore soliciting your help tohave this money transfered into your account. before my government get wind of this fund .You know my father was a rebel leader in Angola before his death My reason for doing this is because it will be difficult for the Angolan government to trace my father's money to an individual's account, especially when such an individual has no relationship ,I decided to keep that money for my family use. At present the money is kept in a Security Company in nertherland. I am currently and temporarily living in Angola with my husband. Moreover the political climatein Angola at the moment being so sensitive and unstable. When you are ready i will give you the information needed before you can get access to the fund you will then proceed to Netherlands where the US$25,600,000.00 twentyfive, MILLION, six HUNDRED DOLLARS will be given to you as payment. Alternatively, you can have the fund transferred into any account that suits you. and for your co-operation and partnership, we have unanimously agreed that you will be entitled to 5.5% of the money when successfully receive it in your account. The nature of your business is not relevant to the successful execution of this transaction. kindly provide me with all your contacts addresses including your personal telephone and fax number. All correspondence is for the attention of my counsel:joseph edward. Kindly get back to us. Sandra Savimbi. From vo1hetz4s321 at hotmail.com Wed Jun 19 03:58:55 2002 From: vo1hetz4s321 at hotmail.com (Amanda) Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 15:58:55 -1900 Subject: Secretly Record all internet activity on any computer... RFZX Message-ID: <000018d35b80$00007519$00002829@mx11.hotmail.com> FIND OUT WHO THEY ARE CHATTING/E-MAILING WITH ALL THOSE HOURS! Is your spouse cheating online? Are your kids talking to dangerous people on instant messenger? Find out NOW! - with Big Brother instant software download. Click on this link NOW to see actual screenshots and to order! http://211.162.77.41/user7/index.asp?Afft=M30 To be excluded from future contacts please visit: http://211.162.77.41/remdata/remove.asp chrissie From qvtlv at 24horas.com Tue Jun 18 14:02:36 2002 From: qvtlv at 24horas.com (qvtlv at 24horas.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 17:02:36 -0400 Subject: Job Search 102: What They Didn't Teach You in 101 Message-ID: <00004d87070c$00002d0a$00004f29@pldc.co.jp> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4532 bytes Desc: not available URL: From eugen at leitl.org Tue Jun 18 08:25:14 2002 From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl) Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 17:25:14 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Silver lining of the spam & virus epidemic... (fwd) Message-ID: Anybody feels like dampening the enthusiasm a bit? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 10:48:46 -0400 From: Bill Kearney Cc: fork at xent.com Subject: Re: Silver lining of the spam & virus epidemic... > "well tom your full of shit again because according to you... Well, that about answers it then, doesn't it? There is indeed an issue of it being possible that escalation will eventually lead to it's own series of problems. This has been true about almost every advance in history. And yet things continue to evolve. What's stopping digital signatures now? Purchasing impediments and UI integration. They're either too hard (or expensive) to purchase or impossible use with jumping through flaming UI hoops. And even when someone possess a usable key the process of managing it it even more of a pain in the ass. But the underlying concepts of reputation and trust have some validity and are worth considering. Just running about making silly Star Wars analogies, while entertaining, does little to advance the discussion. http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork From aw-confirm at ebay.com Wed Jun 19 00:13:07 2002 From: aw-confirm at ebay.com (aw-confirm at ebay.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 00:13:07 Subject: 65.204.155.132 Message-ID: <676.44506.226516@ebay.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4674 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fast91gi at meg5.kewq.com Tue Jun 18 23:08:11 2002 From: fast91gi at meg5.kewq.com (fast91gi at meg5.kewq.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 02:08:11 -0400 Subject: ADV: Extend your car's warranty! ::k|ynfvryqlyElkvvvmlw4tw|2fps... Message-ID: <200206190608.g5J68BO06552@meg5.kewq.com> Car repairs ALWAYS come at a bad time -- extend your car's warranty today and don't be left with huge bills! (Even older cars qualify!) Buy direct and save 40 to 60%! Fill out our FREE, no obligation form and receive a quote! http://211.78.96.25/yourcar/ --------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, go to: http://211.78.96.25/removal/remove.htm Please allow 48-72 hours for removal. From Wilfred at Cryogen.com Wed Jun 19 00:45:27 2002 From: Wilfred at Cryogen.com (Wilfred L. Guerin) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 02:45:27 -0500 Subject: Castro NewYorker Add (Room Lists) Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20020619024527.00af6540@127.0.0.1> In regard to the NewYorker add... http://cryptome.org/fidel-suite.htm I believe the complete floor-list is as follows: (the 3823-back hall is most relevant.) SUITE 3800 (Balcony) "The Real World" 3801 (Conference Center) 3802 "Entities who wish to further Humanity" 3803 "Proactive Entities" 3804 "Competant People" 3806-3814 "Signs: 'PROHIBITED BY AMERIKAN POLICY, REPORT TO YOUR ASSIGNED CONCENTRATION FACILITIES, (per execuitive order #monkeyBoy$all$)'" 3815 "NA - International IC" 3816 "NA - International IC" 3817 "NA - International IC" 3818 "NA - International IC" 3819 "Mossad" 3820 "?" 3821 "CIA" 3822 "Castro" 3823 "FBI" 3824 "Fake Terrorists" 3827 "Commies" 3825 "Bush's Financial Advisor" 3826 "Oil Companies Consortium, (also representing those interested in financial profits only)." 3828 "Nazis" 3829 "Bush" 3830 [Cordoned off, apparently black hole to largest consumer of combustable fuel products, extreme negative altitude.] Just a Guess... Worth the 30 seconds to write it out... -Wilfred Wilfred at Cryogen.com From mort239o at meg4.kewq.com Wed Jun 19 00:10:32 2002 From: mort239o at meg4.kewq.com (mort239o at meg4.kewq.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 03:10:32 -0400 Subject: ADV: Extend your car's warranty! ::k|ynfvryqlyEzu1ewp... Message-ID: <200206190710.g5J7AWR22220@meg4.kewq.com> Car repairs ALWAYS come at a bad time -- extend your car's warranty today and don't be left with huge bills! (Even older cars qualify!) Buy direct and save 40 to 60%! Fill out our FREE, no obligation form and receive a quote! http://211.78.96.25/yourcar/ --------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, go to: http://211.78.96.25/removal/remove.htm Please allow 48-72 hours for removal. From objectpascal at yahoo.com Wed Jun 19 05:39:27 2002 From: objectpascal at yahoo.com (Curt Smith) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 05:39:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Move our monthly meetings In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020619123927.78061.qmail@web11605.mail.yahoo.com> I am not that comfortable with this idea: 1. The meeting location is not generally known. 2. I prefer the "open-air" arrangement (public place with good view of the environment). 3. I also prefer the "open-seating" arrangement (precise location determined on the fly). After all, cypherpunks are supposed to be paranoid... Curt --- Jim Choate wrote: > > I've been thinking of moving the monthly meeting to the > Monkey Wrench bookstore on 53rd about Avenue G. They focus on > anarchist, socialist, and other non-traditionsl political > views. When I went in to tal to them I noticed they had > Crypto and Puzzle Palace, as well as a good collection > of Chomsky, on the shelves. I've still got to talk to the > right person for permission but I thought a heads up would be > in order. > > They have a small sitting area that will seat about 5, that > should be sufficient since we usualy only get 2-3 folks total. > > ravage at ssz.com > www.ssz.com > jchoate at open-forge.org > www.open-forge.org > ===== end eof . Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From MAILER-DAEMON16639 at port.net Tue Jun 18 21:32:49 2002 From: MAILER-DAEMON16639 at port.net (Farmgirl11187) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 08:32:49 +0400 Subject: Real ZOO web site, welcome! ID Message-ID: <200206190434.XAA23883@einstein.ssz.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 582 bytes Desc: not available URL: From MAILER-DAEMON22507 at port.net Tue Jun 18 21:32:50 2002 From: MAILER-DAEMON22507 at port.net (Farmgirl5717) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 08:32:50 +0400 Subject: Real ZOO web site, welcome! ID Message-ID: <200206190434.XAA23884@einstein.ssz.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 554 bytes Desc: not available URL: From MAILER-DAEMON21647 at port.net Tue Jun 18 21:32:51 2002 From: MAILER-DAEMON21647 at port.net (Farmgirl15663) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 08:32:51 +0400 Subject: Real ZOO web site, welcome! ID Message-ID: <200206190429.g5J4TeFJ017468@ak47.algebra.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 565 bytes Desc: not available URL: From MAILER-DAEMON5781 at port.net Tue Jun 18 21:32:53 2002 From: MAILER-DAEMON5781 at port.net (Farmgirl5605) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 08:32:53 +0400 Subject: Real ZOO web site, welcome! ID Message-ID: <200206190429.g5J4TcE88180@locust.minder.net> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 562 bytes Desc: not available URL: From MAILER-DAEMON24371 at port.net Tue Jun 18 21:32:57 2002 From: MAILER-DAEMON24371 at port.net (Farmgirl12985) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 08:32:57 +0400 Subject: Real ZOO web site, welcome! ID Message-ID: <200206190429.g5J4Thu04945@waste.minder.net> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 568 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ptrei at rsasecurity.com Wed Jun 19 09:46:38 2002 From: ptrei at rsasecurity.com (Trei, Peter) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 12:46:38 -0400 Subject: DOJ proposes US data-rentention law. Message-ID: - start quote - Cyber Security Plan Contemplates U.S. Data Retention Law http://online.securityfocus.com/news/486 Internet service providers may be forced into wholesale spying on their customers as part of the White House's strategy for securing cyberspace. By Kevin Poulsen, Jun 18 2002 3:46PM An early draft of the White House's National Strategy to Secure Cyberspace envisions the same kind of mandatory customer data collection and retention by U.S. Internet service providers as was recently enacted in Europe, according to sources who have reviewed portions of the plan. In recent weeks, the administration has begun doling out bits and pieces of a draft of the strategy to technology industry members and advocacy groups. A federal data retention law is suggested briefly in a section drafted in part by the U.S. Justice Department. [...] - end quote - From cs at incest.com Wed Jun 19 09:57:47 2002 From: cs at incest.com (cs at incest.com) Date: 19 Jun 2002 12:57:47 -0400 Subject: Auto Reply to your message ... Message-ID: <3D08AC6D000027CA@mail.are.net> ----- The following text is an automated response to your message ----- ******No one will see any message you send.******* If you require assistance with any of the following Please direct your Email to the specified department. Individual departments may send you further instructions. 1. How do I cancel my membership? If you still wish to cancel your membership you must go to the Incest home page and click on the Customer Service button. Choose the Cancel option and be sure to consider the offers available before confirming your disconnection. Remember you will need the following: ***Username: ***Password: This information is required in order for us to properly process the cancellation. Once you have provided this information we will cancel your membership. 2. I forgot my Password?: Please go to the link http://www.incest.com/forgotincest.htm We will then verify your membership and Email you your password utilizing the email address you supplied when you joined. If your Email address has changed - please include both your new and old Email address for further verification. 3. How do I Join? Over the Internet Just go to http://www.incest.com/prejoin.htm 4. I'm having problems accessing real video/audio? First and foremost, we do not provide tech support for real audio. You must read their documentation or contact them. What we can do is suggest that you download the newest version of real player and install that - Real Player 8 - Basic URL: www.real.com 5. Can I Email to an actual customer service representative? OF COURSE, we always welcome direct contact with our customers. However, keep in mind that our staff have a variety hours and tasks. Our first obligation is to keep our Web services running at optimal performance. We will get back to you as soon as time and work schedules permit. If the Automatic Reponse System does not address your specific your question, then please feel free to contact us. Customer Service and Tech Services- pat at incest.com - Pat Hays 6. How do I submit a story? Send your stories (in the body of your email, not as an attachment) to the following address: mystory at incest.com From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Jun 19 15:04:04 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 17:04:04 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [9fans] tls tunnelling (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 21:47:49 -0700 From: Russ Cox Reply-To: 9fans at cse.psu.edu To: 9fans at cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] tls tunnelling I was intrigued by the prospect of running a TLS-tunneled VNC over the internet (since right now I run plaintext VNCs over the internet), so I looked up stunnel. The interface seemed more reasonable than what I posted earlier today, so I built an equivalent one for Plan 9. Sources now has the following new (and documented) programs: aux/listen1 - simple network listener like inferno's listen(1) tlsclient - what i posted earlier, but no cmd tlssrvtunnel - server side tunneler tlssrvclient - client side tunneler I figured out how to generate new certificates with OpenSSL and documented that too. Enjoy. Russ TLSSRV(8) TLSSRV(8) NAME tlssrv, tlsclient, tlssrvtunnel, tlsclienttunnel - TLS server and client SYNOPSIS tlssrv [ -c cert.pem ] [ -l logfile ] [ -r remotesys ] cmd [ args ... ] tlsclient [ -t trustedkeys ] [ -x excludedkeys ] address tlssrvtunnel plain-addr crypt-addr cert.pem tlsclienttunnel crypt-addr plain-addr trustedkeys DESCRIPTION Tlssrv is a helper program, typically exec'd in a /bin/service file to establish an SSL or TLS connection before launching cmd args; a typical command might start the IMAP or HTTP server. Cert.pem is the server certificate; factotum(4) should hold the corresponding private key. The specified logfile is by convention the same as for the tar- get server. Remotesys is mainly used for logging. Tlsclient is the reverse of tlssrv: it dials address, starts TLS, and then relays between the network connection and standard input and output. If the -t flag (and, optionally, the -x flag) is given, the remote server must present a key whose SHA1 hash is listed in the file trustedkeys but not in the file excludedkeys. See thumbprint(6) for more informa- tion. Tlssrvtunnel and tlsclienttunnel use these tools and listen1 (see listen(8)) to provide TLS network tunnels, allowing legacy application to take advantage of TLS encryption. EXAMPLES Listen for TLS-encrypted IMAP by creating a server certifi- cate /sys/lib/tls/imap.pem and a listener script /bin/service.auth/tcp993 containing: #!/bin/rc exec tlssrv -c/sys/lib/tls/imap.pem -limap4d -r`{cat $3/remote} \ /bin/ip/imap4d -p -dyourdomain -r`{cat $3/remote} \ >[2]/sys/log/imap4d Interact with the server, putting the appropriate hash into /sys/lib/tls/mail and running: tlsclient -t /sys/lib/tls/mail tcp!server!imaps Create a TLS-encrypted VNC connection from a client on kremvax to a server on moscvax: mosc% vncs -d :3 mosc% tlssrvtunnel tcp!moscvax!5903 tcp!*!12345 \ /usr/you/lib/cert.pem krem% tlsclienttunnel tcp!moscvax!12345 tcp!*!5905 \ /usr/you/lib/cert.thumb krem% vncv kremvax:5 (The port numbers passed to the VNC tools are offset by 5900 from the actual TCP port numbers.) FILES /sys/lib/tls SOURCE /sys/src/cmd/tlssrv.c /sys/src/cmd/tlsclient.c /rc/bin/tlssrvtunnel /rc/bin/tlsclienttunnel SEE ALSO factotum(4), listen(8) Unix's stunnel BUGS There is not yet a Plan 9 tool to generate X.509 certifi- cates and public keys. Instead, use the Unix openssl toolkit: openssl req -x509 -nodes -newkey rsa:1024 -keyout key.pem -out cert.pem From matchnews at foryou.match.com Wed Jun 19 15:17:20 2002 From: matchnews at foryou.match.com (matchnews@match.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 17:17:20 -0500 Subject: Have you tried Match.com Messenger? Message-ID: <20020619221215.5E22B9898025@dal53007.match.com> LoveBytes Kissable Karma You've heard it before: "What goes around comes around." That means you'll never find a date if you wait around for people to contact you! Make a move that matters and meet singles that match your personality! Then connect instantly with Match.com Messenger! 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URL: http://im.match.com/tour/welcome.asp FEATURES 12 hot tips for winning profiles If you're struggling to create your free member profile or reinvent your old one, consider our 12 hot tips to make your profile sizzle more URL http://www.match.com/Matchscene/article.asp?bannerid=512515&ArticleID=379 True Stories I had tried other dating services on- and offline but had found little success until I subscribed to Match.com. Connie and I emailed for a few months and before we more URL: http://www.match.com/matchscene/truestories.asp?BannerID=512548&ArticleID=267 Cycle Ireland with Match.com and REI Adventures REI and Match.com invite you to join us on a unique biking adventure through some of the finest scenery in Ireland, August 29th through September 7th. 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Match.com and the radiant heart are registered trademarks of Match.com, Inc. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 26720 bytes Desc: not available URL: From infoemailing at netcabo.pt Wed Jun 19 18:40:14 2002 From: infoemailing at netcabo.pt (Infomail) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 18:40:14 Subject: � Pase unas vacaciones de ensue�o ! Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 9100 bytes Desc: not available URL: From infoemailing at netcabo.pt Wed Jun 19 18:40:32 2002 From: infoemailing at netcabo.pt (Infomail) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 18:40:32 Subject: � Pase unas vacaciones de ensue�o ! Message-ID: <200206191742.g5JHgQiu007040@ak47.algebra.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 9100 bytes Desc: not available URL: From qu2boff6p021 at hotmail.com Thu Jun 20 08:45:44 2002 From: qu2boff6p021 at hotmail.com (Natalie) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 20:45:44 -1900 Subject: Secretly Record all emails/chat... TVECDYUV Message-ID: <00004f137435$00004aab$000051d3@mx02.hotmail.com> FIND OUT WHO THEY ARE CHATTING/E-MAILING WITH ALL THOSE HOURS! Is your spouse cheating online? Are your kids talking to dangerous people on instant messenger? Find out NOW! - with Big Brother instant software download. Click on this link NOW to see actual screenshots and to order! http://211.162.77.41/user7/index.asp?Afft=M30 To be excluded from future contacts please visit: http://211.162.77.41/remdata/remove.asp owcairns From kuzeyis at north-cyprus.net Wed Jun 19 11:28:21 2002 From: kuzeyis at north-cyprus.net (=?iso-8859-9?B?S3V6ZXkg3f4=?=) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 21:28:21 +0300 Subject: bartering fair Message-ID: <00ad01c217bf$1e926c20$338dfea9@tertminal1> DEAR SIRS WE ARE A BARTERING ORGANISATION ACTING IN TURKEY & N.CYPRUS WE WOULD LIKE TO INFORM YOU THAT WE HAVE ORGANISED THE 1.ST INTERNATIONAL BARTERING FAIR 13-18 NOVEMBER 2001 IN LEFKOSA-N.CYPRUS. WE INVITE ALL OF THE BARTERING ORGANISATION OF THE WORLD TO PARTICIPATE THIS FAIR FEE 1,000 (ONE THOUSAND ) USD INCLUDING ACCOMMODATION RESTAURANTS TRANSFERS(AIRPORT/ HOTEL/FAIR) FAIR EXPENSES THE FIRST 10 APPLICATION WILL BE PAYABLE BY 100 % BARTER IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN TO HAVE A STAND AT THIS FAIR AND MEET THE OTHER BARTERING ORGANISATIONS AND KNOW THE MEMBERS OF THE OTHER BARTERING ORGANISATIONS PLEASE APPLY FOR THE APPLICATION FORM THANK YOU HALIL ERDIM DIRECTOR BARTERING N.CYPRUS -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 5138 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Jun 19 20:40:26 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 22:40:26 -0500 Subject: CNN.com - Messages intercepted by U.S. on Sept. 10 revealed - June 19, 2002 (NSA) Message-ID: <3D114EAA.4FCE94FD@ssz.com> http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/06/19/911.warning/index.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From infoemailing at netcabo.pt Wed Jun 19 23:21:15 2002 From: infoemailing at netcabo.pt (Infomail) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 23:21:15 Subject: � Pase unas vacaciones de ensue�o ! Message-ID: <200206192229.RAA01581@einstein.ssz.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 9100 bytes Desc: not available URL: From informatica at mercadoestatal.com.br Thu Jun 20 01:02:23 2002 From: informatica at mercadoestatal.com.br (Mercado Estatal) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 01:02:23 Subject: Voc� � nosso Convidado Message-ID: <200206200420.g5K4KCiu008448@ak47.algebra.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 8989 bytes Desc: not available URL: From emailaddresses98037 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 19 23:08:50 2002 From: emailaddresses98037 at yahoo.com (Haji Garcia) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 02:08:50 -0400 Subject: >>>14.5 MILLION EMAIL ADDRESSES...PLUS $2,000 IN FREE SOFTWARE! Message-ID: Dear, cypherpunks at einstein.ssz.com INCREASE YOUR SALES AT LEAST 50 TIMES WHAT THEY ARE TODAY...GUARANTEED! Below is everything you will ever need to market your product or service over the Internet! Besides that...It's the only real way to market on the Internet...Period! HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO HAVE YOUR MESSAGE SEEN BY OVER 14.5 MILLION TARGETED PROSPECTS DAILY? EARN MEGA-PROFITS WITH THE RIGHT FORMULA If you have a product, service, or message that you would like to get out to Thousands, Hundreds of Thousands, or even Millions of people, you have several options. Traditional methods include print advertising, direct mail, radio, and television advertising. They are all effective, but they all have two catches: They're EXPENSIVE and TIME CONSUMING. Not only that, you only get ONE SHOT at making your message heard, by the right people. Now this has all changed! Thanks to the top programmers in the world and their NEW EMAIL TECHNOLOGY, You can send over 14,500,000 Emails Daily for FREE... Without getting terminated from your current Internet connection! It's very simple to do and you can be increasing sales within minutes of installing this new extraordinary software! PLUS...OVER $2,000 IN MARKETING SOFTWARE INCLUDED FREE! including...... Email extraction software List manager software Email sending software and much...much more! HURRY!.....OFFER ENDS IN 3 DAYS To find out more information, Do not respond by email. Instead, Please Call our marketing department at.... 1- (203) - 467-5378 Cybernet Marketing This message is a one time mailing and will never be repeated again. If you do not respond, you will aoutomatically be removed from our database and will not receive any further mailings. From emailaddresses98037 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 19 23:08:50 2002 From: emailaddresses98037 at yahoo.com (Varoujan Garcia) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 02:08:50 -0400 Subject: >>>14.5 MILLION EMAIL ADDRESSES...PLUS $2,000 IN FREE SOFTWARE! Message-ID: <200206200617.BAA05135@einstein.ssz.com> Dear, cypherpunks at ssz.com INCREASE YOUR SALES AT LEAST 50 TIMES WHAT THEY ARE TODAY...GUARANTEED! Below is everything you will ever need to market your product or service over the Internet! Besides that...It's the only real way to market on the Internet...Period! HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO HAVE YOUR MESSAGE SEEN BY OVER 14.5 MILLION TARGETED PROSPECTS DAILY? EARN MEGA-PROFITS WITH THE RIGHT FORMULA If you have a product, service, or message that you would like to get out to Thousands, Hundreds of Thousands, or even Millions of people, you have several options. Traditional methods include print advertising, direct mail, radio, and television advertising. They are all effective, but they all have two catches: They're EXPENSIVE and TIME CONSUMING. Not only that, you only get ONE SHOT at making your message heard, by the right people. Now this has all changed! Thanks to the top programmers in the world and their NEW EMAIL TECHNOLOGY, You can send over 14,500,000 Emails Daily for FREE... Without getting terminated from your current Internet connection! It's very simple to do and you can be increasing sales within minutes of installing this new extraordinary software! PLUS...OVER $2,000 IN MARKETING SOFTWARE INCLUDED FREE! including...... Email extraction software List manager software Email sending software and much...much more! HURRY!.....OFFER ENDS IN 3 DAYS To find out more information, Do not respond by email. Instead, Please Call our marketing department at.... 1- (203) - 467-5378 Cybernet Marketing This message is a one time mailing and will never be repeated again. If you do not respond, you will aoutomatically be removed from our database and will not receive any further mailings. From koontz at ariolimax.com Thu Jun 20 07:57:04 2002 From: koontz at ariolimax.com (David G. Koontz) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 07:57:04 -0700 Subject: DOJ proposes US data-rentention law. References: Message-ID: <3D11ED40.9040403@ariolimax.com> Trei, Peter wrote: > - start quote - > > Cyber Security Plan Contemplates U.S. Data Retention Law > http://online.securityfocus.com/news/486 > > Internet service providers may be forced into wholesale spying > on their customers as part of the White House's strategy for > securing cyberspace. > > By Kevin Poulsen, Jun 18 2002 3:46PM > > An early draft of the White House's National Strategy to Secure > Cyberspace envisions the same kind of mandatory customer data > collection and retention by U.S. Internet service providers as was > recently enacted in Europe, according to sources who have reviewed > portions of the plan. > > In recent weeks, the administration has begun doling out bits and > pieces of a draft of the strategy to technology industry members > and advocacy groups. A federal data retention law is suggested > briefly in a section drafted in part by the U.S. Justice Department. > If the U.S. wasn't in an undeclared 'war', this would be considered an unfunded mandate. Does anyone realize the cost involved? Think of all the spam that needs to be recorded for posterity. ISPs don't currently record the type of information that this is talking about. What customer data backup is being performed by ISPs is by and large done by disk mirroring and is not kept permanently. I did a bit of back of the envelope calculation and the cost in the U.S. approaches half a billion dollars a year in additional backup costs a year without any CALEA type impact to make it easy for law enforcment to do data mining. The estimate could easily be low by a factor of 5-10. AOL of course would be hit by 40 percent of this though, not to mention a nice tax on MSN. Call it ten cents a day per customer in fee increases to record all that spam for review by big brother. I feel safer already. Whats next, censorship? From InsightontheNews at broadbandpublisher.com Thu Jun 20 05:49:14 2002 From: InsightontheNews at broadbandpublisher.com (Insight on the News) Date: 20 Jun 2002 08:49:14 -0400 Subject: Insight on the News Email Edition Message-ID: <200206200849523.SM00688@broadbandpublisher.com> INSIGHT NEWS ALERT! New articles from Insight on the News are now online http://www.insightmag.com ............................................... Folks, even though last week was our Spring Double Issue, our writers have still been working overtime to bring you the freshest stories via Insight Online! Ralph de Toledano占퐏 searing critique of the ACLU is still posted http://www.insightmag.com/news/255123.html. And Arnaud de Borchgrave占퐏 report on al Qaeda占퐏 newest占폸nd even more troubling占퐏anctuary will have you shaking your head http://www.insightmag.com/news/255862.html . That占퐏 all for now. Until next time, from the Bunker, I remain your newsman in Washington. ............................................... AL QAEDA占폮 PRIVILEGED SANCTUARY Arnaud de Brochgrave reveals the newest homeland of transnational terrorism. http://www.insightmag.com/news/255862.html ............................................... ANOTHER DAY, ANOTHER DIRTY BOMB THREAT Flashback. 占폧UCLEAR TERRORISM - Your Life May Depend on The Woman from NEST占�. http://www.insightmag.com/news/255281.html ............................................... TED KENNEDY REKINDLES THE HEALTHCARE FLAME He's back. http://www.insightmag.com/news/256054.html ======================================== FREE QUOTE! You could SAVE Up To 66% Paying Too Much For Life Insurance? Click here for a FREE, no obligation quote from Matrix Direct http://etools.ncol.com/a/jgroup/bg_wwwmatrix-direct-rlcom_wwwinsightmagcom_6.html ======================================== FIXING THE 占폞APING HOLES占� Richard Tomkins writes that if you want to understand the new Department of Homeland Security, think 占폝ix the Gaping Holes.占� http://www.insightmag.com/news/255930.html ............................................... HOME AT LAST. . . .JUDGE OVERTURNS S. CAROLINA PLUTONIUM BAN Shipments could begin as early as this weekend. http://www.insightmag.com/news/256055.html ............................................... GEORGIA GENTLEMEN Hans Nichols and Jessica Davis report that Reps. Barr, Linder Running Gentlemanly Race on the Up-and-Up http://www.insightmag.com/news/255104.html ======================================== SUBSCRIBE TO THE INSIGHT PRINT EDITION TODAY! And Save 72% (Off Our Newsstand Price) https://www.collegepublisher.com/insightsub/subform1.cfm ======================================= You have received this newsletter because you have a user name and password at Insight on the News. To unsubscribe from this newsletter, visit "http://www.insightmag.com/main.cfm?include=unsubscribe". You may also log into Insight on the News and edit your account preferences on the Web. If you have forgotten or don't know your user name and password, it will be emailed to you after visiting the following link: http://www.insightmag.com/main.cfm?include=emailPassword&serialNumber=16oai891z5&email=cypherpunks at ssz.com From mv at cdc.gov Thu Jun 20 09:40:08 2002 From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret)) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 09:40:08 -0700 Subject: legislators needing killing: trace = no BoRights Message-ID: <3D120568.5CFC818@cdc.gov> Listen to "electronic dance music", lose your right to freely assemble. http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/bill/asm/ab_1901-1950/ab_1941_bill_20020515_amended_asm.html BILL NUMBER: AB 1941 AMENDED BILL TEXT AMENDED IN ASSEMBLY MAY 15, 2002 AMENDED IN ASSEMBLY APRIL 4, 2002 INTRODUCED BY Assembly Member Havice FEBRUARY 14, 2002 An act to add Section 53087.6 to the Government Code, relating to law enforcement. LEGISLATIVE COUNSEL'S DIGEST AB 1941, as amended, Havice. Rave parties: permits. (1) Existing law requires notification of law enforcement of the issuance of a permit for an upcoming event in limited instances such as the holding of a certified farmers market. This bill would require a local permit granting authority to notify the local law enforcement agency when it is considering granting a permit for a rave party, as defined. The bill would require the local authority to require the promoter to present evidence that the promoter is sufficiently knowledgeable about illegal drugs and drug paraphernalia to recognize their presence at the event. The bill would require the promoter to apply for any required permit not less than 30 days prior to the event and , prior to the issuance of the permit, to acknowledge in writing that he or she or his or her agents will not permit, condone, or ignore violations of state and local laws regarding the presence, possession, sale, or use of drugs and drug paraphernalia at any event covered by the permit. The bill would create a state-mandated local program by imposing new duties on local agencies. (2) The California Constitution requires the state to reimburse local agencies and school districts for certain costs mandated by the state. Statutory provisions establish procedures for making that reimbursement, including the creation of a State Mandates Claims Fund to pay the costs of mandates that do not exceed $1,000,000 statewide and other procedures for claims whose statewide costs exceed $1,000,000. This bill would provide that, if the Commission on State Mandates determines that the bill contains costs mandated by the state, reimbursement for those costs shall be made pursuant to these statutory provisions. Vote: majority. Appropriation: no. Fiscal committee: yes. State-mandated local program: yes. THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA DO ENACT AS FOLLOWS: SECTION 1. Section 53087.6 is added to the Government Code, to read: 53087.6. (a) As used in this section, "rave party" means any electronic music dance event of the type commonly referred to as rave parties that may be attended by 500 or more persons. (b) In any jurisdiction where a permit is required, the promoter of a rave party shall apply to the local permit granting authority for a permit not less than 30 days prior to the scheduled event and, at the same time, shall notify the local law enforcement agency having jurisdiction over the venue of the proposed event. The promoter shall include in the permit application a list of all applications that the promoter has submitted for a permit to conduct a rave party within the previous 12-month period. The promoter shall include an affirmative statement that the promoter understands that the listing of previous applications is correct to the best of the promoter's knowledge and that submission of false and misleading information may be grounds for denial of a current and future permits. (c) Any local permit granting authority shall notify the local law enforcement agency having jurisdiction over the proposed location of the event when it is considering whether or not to grant a permit for a rave party. The permit granting authority shall also require the promoter of the event to present evidence before the issuance of the permit showing that the promoter is sufficiently knowledgeable about illegal drugs and drug paraphernalia that they or their agents can recognize the presence of drugs and drug paraphernalia at the event. (c) (d) Prior to the issuance of the permit, the promoter of the rave party shall acknowledge in writing that he or she or his or her agents will not permit, condone, or ignore violations of state and local laws regarding the presence, possession, sale, or use of drugs and drug paraphernalia at any event covered by the permit. SEC. 2. Notwithstanding Section 17610 of the Government Code, if the Commission on State Mandates determines that this act contains costs mandated by the state, reimbursement to local agencies and school districts for those costs shall be made pursuant to Part 7 (commencing with Section 17500) of Division 4 of Title 2 of the Government Code. If the statewide cost of the claim for reimbursement does not exceed one million dollars ($1,000,000), reimbursement shall be made from the State Mandates Claims Fund. From onacct45 at terra.es Thu Jun 20 11:08:45 2002 From: onacct45 at terra.es (Hi It's me) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 15:08:45 -0300 Subject: Somebody fancies you! Message-ID: <3D060652000006C1@PDL-Storage-01.paradoxdigital.com> (added by PDL-Storage-01.paradoxdigital.com) A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 9151 bytes Desc: not available URL: From smb at research.att.com Thu Jun 20 12:19:08 2002 From: smb at research.att.com (Steven M. Bellovin) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 15:19:08 -0400 Subject: DOJ proposes US data-rentention law. Message-ID: <20020620191908.526F27B4B@berkshire.research.att.com> In message <3D11ED40.9040403 at ariolimax.com>, "David G. Koontz" writes: >Trei, Peter wrote: >> - start quote - >> >> Cyber Security Plan Contemplates U.S. Data Retention Law >> http://online.securityfocus.com/news/486 >> >> Internet service providers may be forced into wholesale spying >> on their customers as part of the White House's strategy for >> securing cyberspace. >> >> By Kevin Poulsen, Jun 18 2002 3:46PM >> >> An early draft of the White House's National Strategy to Secure >> Cyberspace envisions the same kind of mandatory customer data >> collection and retention by U.S. Internet service providers as was >> recently enacted in Europe, according to sources who have reviewed >> portions of the plan. >> ... > >If the U.S. wasn't in an undeclared 'war', this would be considered >an unfunded mandate. Does anyone realize the cost involved? Think >of all the spam that needs to be recorded for posterity. ISPs don't >currently record the type of information that this is talking about. >What customer data backup is being performed by ISPs is by and large >done by disk mirroring and is not kept permanently. This isn't clear. The proposals I've seen call for recording "transaction data" -- i.e., the SMTP "envelope" information, plus maybe the From: line. It does not call for retention of content. Apart from practicality, there are constitutional issues. Envelope data is "given" to the ISP in typical client/server email scenarios, while content is end-to-end, in that it's not processed by the ISP. A different type of warrant is therefore needed to retrieve the latter. The former falls under the "pen register" law (as amended by the Patriot Act), and requires a really cheap warrant. Email content is considered a full-fledged wiretap, and requires a hard-to-get court order, with lots of notice requirements, etc. Mandating that a third party record email in this situation, in the absence of a pre-existing warrant citing probable cause, would be very chancy. I don't think even the current Supreme Court would buy it. --Steve Bellovin, http://www.research.att.com/~smb (me) http://www.wilyhacker.com ("Firewalls" book) --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From gbnewby at ils.unc.edu Thu Jun 20 16:07:32 2002 From: gbnewby at ils.unc.edu (Greg Newby) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 19:07:32 -0400 Subject: CP meet at H2K2? Message-ID: <20020620230732.GA20380@ils.unc.edu> H2K2, 2600's conference, is at Hotel Penn in New York July 12-14. http://www.h2k2.net CP contributors who are scheduled include John Young and yours truly. Maybe others I didn't recognize or see yet. I heard of a few other tentatives. The full conference schedule should be online within the next couple of days. I'm thinking of a CP meet Saturday night July 12. Anyone else gonna be there? -- Greg From vinnie at vmeng.com Thu Jun 20 19:32:43 2002 From: vinnie at vmeng.com (Vinnie Moscaritolo) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 19:32:43 -0700 Subject: Vinnie is looking for work.. Message-ID: Bob; please pass this on Opportunity strikes again, it seems. I am looking for employment. I just finished up the delivering the a large project for Apple, and as my reward they are laying me off. Actually it's more bad timing that anything else. I will be looking for work shortly either contracting or full-time and would appreciate if you can point me to anyone whom might have work. I am very flexible. my resume is online at http://www.vmeng.com/vinnie/resume.html -- Vinnie Moscaritolo KF6WPJ PGP: 3F903472C3AF622D5D918D9BD8B100090B3EF042 ------------------------------------------------------- --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From carlo at wirelesscellutions.com Thu Jun 20 18:44:15 2002 From: carlo at wirelesscellutions.com (Carlo Rodriguez) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 20:45:15 -0459 Subject: Handset Inventory! Message-ID: <200206202130812.SM01944@carlo> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 24883 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Wilfred at Cryogen.com Thu Jun 20 18:51:42 2002 From: Wilfred at Cryogen.com (Wilfred L. Guerin) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 20:51:42 -0500 Subject: McVeigh is Islamic Terrorist? Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20020620205142.008bbe70@mail.tulane.edu> Oh yes, and the truely convincing propoganda flows... http://www.msnbc.com/news/769827.asp?0si=- Tim McVeigh is an Islamic Terrorist... Yes In Deed, a Deed for oil stock. Possibly it is time to realize he is actually a FBI affiliate, and go to the munitions store, can someone come pick me up? I'm not exactly in a position to be the last taken to the concentration camps, yaknow... Till the next issue... -Wilfred L. Guerin Wilfred at Cryogen.com From measl at mfn.org Thu Jun 20 18:52:06 2002 From: measl at mfn.org (measl at mfn.org) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 20:52:06 -0500 (CDT) Subject: DOJ proposes US data-rentention law. In-Reply-To: <3D11ED40.9040403@ariolimax.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, David G. Koontz wrote: > Whats next, censorship? Yes. -- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin at mfn.org If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... -------------------------------------------------------------------- From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz Thu Jun 20 02:12:12 2002 From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 21:12:12 +1200 (NZST) Subject: Good quote on biometric ID Message-ID: <200206200912.VAA142949@ruru.cs.auckland.ac.nz> I was reading a late-70's paper on computer security recently when I saw that it contains a nice quote about the futility of trying to use biometrics to prevent Sept.11-type attacks, I thought I'd share it with people: When a highway patrolman is sent to his duty, he has to be given the authority to cite traffic violators. This cannot be done explicitly for each violator because at the time that the patrolman is sent to his duty, the traffic violator does not exist, and the identity of the future violators is not known, so that it is impossible to construct individual access rights for the violators at that time. The point is that the patrolman's authority has to do with the behaviour of motorists, not their identity. - Naftaly Minsky, "An Operation-Control Scheme for Authorisation in Computer Systems", International Journal of Computer and Information Sciences, Vol.2, No.2, June 1978, p.157. Peter. From rah at shipwright.com Thu Jun 20 22:18:20 2002 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 01:18:20 -0400 Subject: Vinnie is looking for work.. Message-ID: When it rains, it pours, boys and girls... Vinnie Moscaritolo, Crypto Samoan Attorney (now) for Hire, wouldn't dare do something this, but *I* will. :-). Cheers, RAH --- begin forwarded text From just4you at foryou.match.com Fri Jun 21 04:33:56 2002 From: just4you at foryou.match.com (just4you at foryou.match.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 06:33:56 -0500 Subject: Try the new way to contact Match.com members instantly Message-ID: I'm M F Seeking M F ages 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55+ to 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55+ Zip You have received this offer because you are a Match.com member. To change your email options or unsubscribe, simply log in, click My Account, choose Change My Email Options, and un-check Etips. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 5917 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dmolnar at hcs.harvard.edu Fri Jun 21 04:49:00 2002 From: dmolnar at hcs.harvard.edu (dmolnar) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 07:49:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: CP meet at H2K2? In-Reply-To: <20020620230732.GA20380@ils.unc.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, Greg Newby wrote: > the next couple of days. I'm thinking of a CP > meet Saturday night July 12. Anyone else gonna be there? I should be there, since I'm free and in the area. In a similar vein, who's going to be at DEF CON? -David From hk_cfm_sz at sohu.com Thu Jun 20 18:12:52 2002 From: hk_cfm_sz at sohu.com (hk_cfm_sz at sohu.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:12:52 +0800 Subject: Hong Kong Company Formation Message-ID: <200206190113.g5J1DdFK031284@ak47.algebra.com> we are sorry if the mail disturb you! pls reply as you refuse. ************************************************************** ABOUT HONG KONG COMPANY FORMATION a.Qualification: at least two shareholders; b.Procedure will take about three weeks; c.Price & government charge: US$1500; d.Annual fee: in general US$800; e.Tax: almost no profit for offshore company; f.Service: address, phone number & FAX number provided; g.Payment: 50% in deposit and 50% paid after finished. contact: hotline at offshore-hk.com person : allen ling ************************************************************** we are sorry if the mail disturb you! pls reply as you refuse. From ptrei at rsasecurity.com Fri Jun 21 06:53:29 2002 From: ptrei at rsasecurity.com (Trei, Peter) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:53:29 -0400 Subject: Followup: [RE: DOJ proposes US data-rentention law.] Message-ID: Two points: 1. According to Poulson, the DOJ proposal never discussed just what would be logged. Poulson compared it to the European Big Brother legislation, which required storage to Web browsing histories and email header data. 2. After I posted the same info to /. http://slashdot.org/articles/02/06/19/1724216.shtml?tid=103 (I'm the 'Anonymous Coward' in this case), Kevin updated his article. The new version may be found at: http://online.securityfocus.com/news/489 The relevant portions read: - start quote - U.S. Denies Data Retention Plans The Justice Department disputes claims that Internet service providers could be forced to spy on their customers as part of the U.S. strategy for securing cyberspace. By Kevin Poulsen, Jun 19 2002 12:24PM [...] But a Justice Department source said Wednesday that data retention is mentioned in the strategy only as an industry concern -- ISPs and telecom companies oppose the costly idea -- and does not reflect any plan by the department or the White House to push for a U.S. law. [...] - end quote - Peter Trei > ---------- > From: David G. Koontz[SMTP:koontz at ariolimax.com] > Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 10:57 AM > To: cypherpunks at lne.com > Cc: 'cryptography at wasabisystems.com'; 'cypherpunks at lne.com' > Subject: Re: DOJ proposes US data-rentention law. > > Trei, Peter wrote: > > - start quote - > > > > Cyber Security Plan Contemplates U.S. Data Retention Law > > http://online.securityfocus.com/news/486 > > > > Internet service providers may be forced into wholesale spying > > on their customers as part of the White House's strategy for > > securing cyberspace. > > > > By Kevin Poulsen, Jun 18 2002 3:46PM > > > > An early draft of the White House's National Strategy to Secure > > Cyberspace envisions the same kind of mandatory customer data > > collection and retention by U.S. Internet service providers as was > > recently enacted in Europe, according to sources who have reviewed > > portions of the plan. > > > > In recent weeks, the administration has begun doling out bits and > > pieces of a draft of the strategy to technology industry members > > and advocacy groups. A federal data retention law is suggested > > briefly in a section drafted in part by the U.S. Justice Department. > > > > If the U.S. wasn't in an undeclared 'war', this would be considered > an unfunded mandate. Does anyone realize the cost involved? Think > of all the spam that needs to be recorded for posterity. ISPs don't > currently record the type of information that this is talking about. > What customer data backup is being performed by ISPs is by and large > done by disk mirroring and is not kept permanently. > > I did a bit of back of the envelope calculation and the cost in the > U.S. approaches half a billion dollars a year in additional backup > costs a year without any CALEA type impact to make it easy for law > enforcment to do data mining. The estimate could easily be low by a > factor of 5-10. AOL of course would be hit by 40 percent of this > though, not to mention a nice tax on MSN. Call it ten cents a day > per customer in fee increases to record all that spam for review by > big brother. I feel safer already. > > Whats next, censorship? From mv at cdc.gov Fri Jun 21 10:51:08 2002 From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret)) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:51:08 -0700 Subject: Brinworld: NYT on stabilized cameras (For the Spy in the Sky, New Eyes) Message-ID: <3D13678C.18079FBE@cdc.gov> http://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/20/technology/circuits/20SPYY.html For the Spy in the Sky, New Eyes FLYING in his helicopter, Sgt. Frank Sheer of the Orange County Sheriff's Department in Southern California can be literally miles from the action. But that does not mean that he and his co-pilot do not know what's going on. In fact, Sergeant Sheer says they often have a clearer picture of a crime scene than the officers who are there. "We'll be tracking a suspect on a hillside from the helicopter," said Sergeant Sheer, the chief pilot in the Orange County force, "and the deputies climbing up it will be saying to us, `There's nobody here.' We've actually had them step on a guy who pulled up a bush for cover." It's not just having a bird's-eye view that gives Sergeant Sheer and many other airborne police officers, rescue workers, military personnel, and television news and movie crews almost paranormal vision. Nor is it simply advances in optics and cameras. Ultimately they all rely on complex camera stabilization systems that mix mechanical and electronic technologies to produce steady images, even at high magnification, from inherently unsteady craft like helicopters and boats. When officers pursued O. J. Simpson along the freeways of Los Angeles eight years ago, a covey of police and television news helicopters tracked him with stabilized cameras hanging at the sides in their distinctive ball-shaped pods. But most helicopter surveillance is not that dramatic. If the Orange County Sheriff's Department needs a car discreetly followed, Sergeant Sheer can keep tabs on it from 3,000 feet up and a considerable distance behind  a position that would leave most motorists unaware there was a helicopter around, let alone watching them. New systems built around all-electronic motion-sensing technologies are so stable that only the horizon and haze limit how far away observers can be. The use of airborne stabilized cameras to create films or follow athletes in action attracts little controversy. Nor does anyone dispute that the systems allow police officers to capture criminals or rescue people. Some privacy advocates, however, are concerned that the recent proliferation of airborne cameras and the growing capabilities of new systems may mean that anyone who steps outside may unknowingly be a target of an aerial eye. Outdoors, there may no longer be any place to hide. "Because technology affords police what amounts to superhuman vision, that doesn't mean we lose all expectations of privacy," said Barry Steinhardt, the director of the American Civil Liberties Union's program on technology and liberty. "There are lots of innocent people who are going to have their privacy invaded  observed naked in their backyard sunbathing from far away." There is a long history of efforts to produce steady airborne pictures. But in the early years, the results were for the most part dismal. Steven Poster, the president of the American Society of Cinematographers, recalls his first attempt at photography from a helicopter, in the late 1960's. "It was an Illinois State Fair, and the stabilization came from a rope tied around me to the helicopter," Mr. Poster recalled. "I quickly realized that this was not a very good system." While more sophisticated systems existed back then, they did not differ much from Mr. Poster's rope. Known as side mounts, they generally relied on bungee cords and the user's body to isolate the camera. By the 1980's Mr. Poster was a director of photography for feature films and television advertisements, and he had found an answer to his aerial photography problems with a system made by Wescam, a company now based in Burlington, Ontario. "It's the best way to stabilize a camera," said Mr. Poster, who has used the system in films like "Stuart Little 2," which is to be released this summer. The Wescam system used by Mr. Poster's film crews is remarkably similar to the original Wescam developed in the early 1960's by a Canadian subsidiary of Westinghouse as a battlefield surveillance tool for the Canadian military. (Wescam is short for Westinghouse camera.) Eliminating the vibration from the helicopter was the first step and the easy part. The Wescam ball is attached to a helicopter or airplane through a shock absorber that uses springs and other damping materials. "It is tuned for the natural frequencies of helicopters," said Mark Chamberlain, a mechanical engineer who is president and chief executive of Wescam. But eliminating the vibration does nothing to limit three other kinds of movement by the camera: pitch (plunging up and down), yaw (rotating around a vertical axis) and roll (the side-to-side rotation that creates a moving horizon). To deal with these kinds of movements, inventors of the original Wescam turned to large gyroscopes, which create inertia. It is like strapping a large boulder to the camera to stabilize it, yet without all the weight that a boulder would add. Inside the camera ball are three gyros oriented to offset each of the three types of unwanted motion. Motors attached to the camera mount allow an operator within the helicopter to view images from the camera on a video monitor and point the camera as needed. The gyro stabilization system proved so steady that it has not significantly changed over the last three decades. But the system has one significant drawback: the gyros require frequent maintenance. From info at newabode.com Fri Jun 21 11:33:59 2002 From: info at newabode.com (info at newabode.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:33:59 Subject: For Sale by Owner Help Message-ID: <200206211530.g5LFUfiu027722@ak47.algebra.com> NewAbode.com offers you (for sale by owner) the ability to attract potential buyers who might otherwise skip your advertising. Display up to 40 photos of your home on the web with a nice short, easy to remember, web address that you can use in all your advertising. (i.e. NewAbode.com/elm). You send us the photos and we will build your website within 2 business days. --get a short easy to remember Web Address --put it in newspaper ads --put it on your For Sale sign --put it in Internet listings --put it on your listing sheet --put it on your voicemail --view your web activity --up to 40 photos for $250 For more information please see http://newabode.com or simply reply to this email. Happy selling! Peter Ericson NewAbode.com c/o The Complete Website Seven Central Street Framingham, MA 01701 From ben at algroup.co.uk Fri Jun 21 04:14:47 2002 From: ben at algroup.co.uk (Ben Laurie) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 12:14:47 +0100 Subject: CP meet at H2K2? References: <20020620230732.GA20380@ils.unc.edu> Message-ID: <3D130AA7.5020408@algroup.co.uk> Greg Newby wrote: > H2K2, 2600's conference, is at Hotel Penn in New York > July 12-14. http://www.h2k2.net > > CP contributors who are scheduled include > John Young and yours truly. Maybe others I > didn't recognize or see yet. I heard of a few other > tentatives. > > The full conference schedule should be online within > the next couple of days. I'm thinking of a CP > meet Saturday night July 12. Anyone else gonna be there? Woah! Me! By a miracle! Not at H2K2 (well, until now, I hadn't heard about it), but I will be in NY, en route back to the UK (on Sunday). Cheers, Ben. -- http://www.apache-ssl.org/ben.html http://www.thebunker.net/ "There is no limit to what a man can do or how far he can go if he doesn't mind who gets the credit." - Robert Woodruff From alev at yahoo.com Fri Jun 21 02:43:40 2002 From: alev at yahoo.com (alev at yahoo.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 12:43:40 +0300 Subject: MP3 SITESI BUTUN MP3LER BURADA BI BAK Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 691 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kristie at fastmail.ca Fri Jun 21 16:17:39 2002 From: kristie at fastmail.ca (kristie at fastmail.ca) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 15:17:39 -0800 Subject: Home Loans - Free Quote Message-ID: <5sev1lnx4g1hex654m2.3b178e2cbb1n6@mx1.mail.yahoo.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 9545 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nobody at remailer.privacy.at Fri Jun 21 08:41:07 2002 From: nobody at remailer.privacy.at (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 17:41:07 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Manifesto on a New Strategy Message-ID: <0a068ee97855eccb9994e92b2a4f6bf1@remailer.privacy.at> Global Freedom From Force Independence From Politics and Currency-Based Economies A Precursor to Digital Neo-Tech Revolutions For A Volitional, Anti-Force, Capitalist Civilization Outlining the possibilities of creating freedom through new, non-traditional financial business strategy and technology, in business- and economic details, and specifications for technical development, this manuscript represents the first integration of New-Technology/Internet-driven business infrastructures, logistics, and markets of the future with core concepts of Neo-Tech and Neo-Tech business. It outlines how the integration and evolution of three existing basic concepts -- 1) Wide-scope accounting strategies to protect business assets, 2) Cyberspace/Logistics/Reputation-driven Barter Communities, and 3) A Global Anonymized Computerized Market -- can together lead to total economical freedom and volitional trade, on an individual and ultimately on a world-wide scale. The practical implementation of the strategies described, and the necessary infrastructures, while today in planning by only a small number of businesses, is an enormous opportunity for any entrepreneur, manager or CEO to understand, integrate with his business, contribute to and profit from. First, what is Wide-Scope Accounting a.k.a. Golden Helmets? As a concept, it is almost as old as human society itself, but was first explicitly identified and named by Frank R. Wallace, author at Neo-Tech Publishing. The original explanation of the concept of Golden Helmets, given in a courtroom speech, can be found at: http://www.neo-tech.com/golden-helmet/chapter3.html Wide-scope accounting is a wealth management tool, allowing a person to live without any taxable personal income. Rather, all money is kept by one's company and utilized to expand the company and maximize its values, while one's own expenses necessary to live and work (food, housing, car, etc.) are company expenses. Any individual living this way, in a 100% service environment, but without private income or excess property, therefore, cannot be taxed. One's own company itself focuses not on immediate profits but on building maximum high-quality values, efficiency and new jobs. Taxable profits in a company are minimized by re-investing, while the value-maximized work leads to high revenues, and widens the business through additional partners and employees. Breaking The Chains Of Today's Criminal Politics With Neo-Tech, Frank R. Wallace also openly identified that the reason for the modern, century-old economy-controlling/economy-draining high income taxes are not primarily to satisfy the financial requirements of governments and "the public", which could as well be achieved through less compulsive, more voluntary taxation schemes. Rather, the prime reason for income taxes and their often life-destroying enforcement by armed government hunters is to keep control over people -- legal, bureaucratical, social and psychological -- by controlling everyone with a strong, limiting grip on his or her prosperity, privacy, business, happiness, and ultimately, life. Wide-scope accounting in business lets a company always pay excess taxes indirectly, by creating jobs and boosting markets, which leads to direct and indirect tax payments by multiplying the profits of others, while minimizing one's own financial liability. It allows any businessman to outmaneuver criminal politics without being an "Atlas that Shrugs" -- in contrary, it means producing more and harder than ever, and in the long term, profiting enormously, but at the same time withdrawing all support for the force-backed tax system -- legally, and without making any force or resistance necessary. Regulated Currencies Mean Regulated Values However, despite the tool of wide-scope accounting readily available to everyone, one must face the reality of a politically undermined/controlled economy existing practically everywhere today. Vast economies -- valuable, but yet, drained -- today depend on monetary systems ultimately regulated by local and international political authorities. Thus, the task is to sublimate traditional economical dynamics to direct value-creation/value- exchange dynamics of an economy beyond wide-scope accounting within traditional currency systems -- immune from external force, authorities and corruptions. Without making a mistake about it, official currencies do represent the material values that they are exchanged for. And, contrary to the views propagated by dishonest media, academics, traditionalists, politicians and activists, money is not the "root of all evil". Yet, in a way, all official money is corrupted, since it is regulated directly and indirectly by governments through taxation-, banking-, anti-inflation-, anti-deflation-, public insurance-, tariff-, business- and economic regulations and laws which affect everyone who uses money and indirectly forces everyone to pay up insane proportions of his personally earned wealth. As all official, government-issued currencies for value exchange are regulated, drained and corrupted in traditional economic systems, every magnificent commercial value is, too! Hence, even beyond wide-scope strategies to protect from direct government confiscation, taxation and attacks, the problem of force-backed economic control remains. How could non-authority, non-force businesses and individuals generate sufficient availability and acceptance of efficient, but gradual and fully volitional changes from state-owned systems based on money to individually-controlled, systems based on market value, available world-wide to everyone? Obviously, cyberspace, which cannot be efficiently regulated, may play a role. However, the decentralized Internet is only the foundation, upon which scaling levels of infrastructures for specific financial solutions must be consciously conceived and implemented with foresight and long-term efforts. The globalization of free business activities, i.e., international competition between businesses and between the degree of freedom in different states, is crucial for a cyberspace-based economy to succeed -- as business on the Internet does not have to be based in any single country and be restricted by its laws. Unfortunately, the globalization of recent international political policies, which enforce regulations (e.g. "financial-crime" surveillance, international liability to violation of political/ethical/cultural policies, international trade bans and regulations of certain goods, etc.), may partially limit and dis-empower the trend of overcoming national laws through globalization. These newly emerging freedoms of globalization must not be limited. In order to achieve and maintain freedom from local laws, regulated economies, mandatory regulated currencies, and now, international regulations, a combination of logistical, technological, communicational and financial solutions must be brought forward by market entrepreneurs to prevent or reverse the expansion of international government force. Bartering Communities And The Argentinian Lesson Wide-scope accounting is a simple protective measure, but it can require a full-scale revision of business and employment policies. Ultimately, the question is, Can wide-scope accounting alone and in every situation solve the problem of ending political regulation of earnings and business values? Bartering Communities, mentioned by futurist authors, including Alvin Toffler and Barry Carter, as a complementary approach to wide-scope accounting, especially when upgraded with modern technology and e-commerce dynamics, are ironically exemplified within the politically/economically-collapsing nation of Argentina. The concept is based on the idea of having trade systems for goods and services that do not rely on officially issued government currencies, and hence cannot be regulated by means of regulations based on official currencies. It can also protect against inflation, deflation, fiscal instability and other traditional economical short-term problems. Argentina is taken as an example here because of the interesting grassroots business infrastructures that have been building as a result of the total government-led control and collapse of that country's traditional economy. Those infrastructures are privately created trade/bartering communities, not based in cyberspace, yet highly effective because of the enormous demand. People meet at a physical center, i.e. a local community center, and offer their own goods or service to others for some other goods or services, but not for official currency. "Prices", i.e. the amount and ratio of values is negotiable. Some of the people are well-known (i.e. their identity can be confirmed by others at that center) and carry a reputation. Also, a completed trade of goods or services has effects on the reputation/trustworthyness of both exchange partners involved in that transaction. A completed trade may also establish or re-affirm guidelines for specific exchange ratios, e.g.: "1 pound of sausage for 10 apples", "1 haircut for 1 carwash", "400 sheets of paper and a printer for 2 hours of business- or legal consulting". The same works with privately-issued currencies: goods and services can be traded for ad-hoc currencies, e.g. 5 ANON-Credits, 10 XYZ-Credits, 120 ABC-Credits. Bartering communities are a very capitalistic answer to vanishing government regulation. Capitalistic in the original definition of the term, i.e., a powerful solution, yet, an economical laissez-faire solution that works by volitional free trade, without using force or fraud in any instance. That nonviolent Ghandi-like withdrawal of support from the public systems is even legal according to government's own laws. Removing that support is achieved by ignoring currencies, and by privatizing the issuing of currencies, a concept that only becomes so effective once combined with flexible, and low-cost e-commerce technology -- a possibility that no government originally conceived. As a result, it frees individuals and their businesses financially, the economy, and ultimately, everyone -- from workers, small- business "middle-class" producers, up to the richest, highly successful entrepreneurs, but also and especially the poor, the needy and those without an official job (as observed in Argentina, for example), by offering them easy, unregulated work, as well as highly competitive, minimum-cost products manufactured by unregulated companies using bartering-network logistics. It benefits the whole of productive humanity, excluding only those who decide to rely on support of organized politics or activist/lobbying groups, regulation-based corporate privileges, or established force-backed institutions. In fact, it can effectively ruin all those who live from systems which finance themselves by any means of force (including higher social/ political causes rationalizing force), rather than volitional/competitive work. Important to note is also that today, bartering systems, beyond niche economies or other exceptional situations, are not science-fiction, but already today a practical reality. The facts are that 40% of the world economy is represented by some kind of bartering trade rather than financial transactions, and that over 65% of the Fortune 500 companies at some point are engaged in bartering. Though it may seem as if there are no problems holding back the bartering solution to an unrestricted economy, they unfortunately do exist in form of big-brother governments in the economically most important western countries. The US Internal Revenue Service, for example, claims that any profits made through bartering, including intangible profits, are taxable as income, officially demanding money for the state for each successful bartering deal. Although it is much harder for the IRS to enforce or to prove its taxation cases in bartering scenarios, this still has a profound impact on the growth of the bartering economy. From an official point of view, bartering is regulated and bartering independently of government systems would be tax evasion and illegal. This is a major problem because in business, profound trust, seriousness and security are generally expected and required before a system will become widely accepted and employed. A resolution of this issue could be to avoid relationships between any values offered within the bartering economy and any and all officially issued currencies. While pseudocurrencies, as mere internal aliases for values exchanged, could exist, there must not be possibility to directly or indirectly establish exchange rates of bartering goods and services to official currency. Today's bartering and e-bartering seems to fail exactly here, with none or relatively loose policies regarding the association of bartering values with traditional money. By enforcing contractual policies throughout e-bartering networks against the introduction of official currencies in any exchange, and any products which obviously translate to preset currency value (gold and stocks, perhaps), with all the complications such a move might lead to, this could efficiently make it impossible to tax bartering profits as income. With no easy-to-determine equivalents of money for bartering profits, taxation may become impossible. Whenever that happens -- secure, large, tax-free barter networks -- demand and involvement in such networks by individuals and businesses would rise sharply. An Unassailable New Economical Infrastructure Based On Privacy, Anonymity And Technology Obviously, because of major issues that won't go away -- growing government control and taxation in new areas, the need for permanent security and stability of a widely accepted business system and the need for practical feasibility, broad customer confidence and ease of use -- a solution beyond simple bartering and e-bartering systems is necessary to successfully start off a new, genuinely free economical system on a global scale. The integration of all relevant knowledge, ideas and scenarios on this topic suggests that the only viable route not dependent on politics or social change must be based on technology, which involves cryptography-based anonymity that conceptually cannot be subverted and trust/reputation-based transactions through a decentralized network. Dealing with this concept involves detailed technical specifications of the basic requirements and concepts necessary to develop such a system. While some of these details may not be comprehensible for technical amateurs, it is only important to understand the core concept, and the fact that it is possible to create fully anonymous and untraceable communication infrastructures with the help of extensive cryptography and theories of information technology -- as outlined and partially implemented by the libertarian cypherpunks and others. There have been small-scale and experimental projects such as Freenet, and limited-scope/limited-feature projects with the same goal such as ZeroKnowledge's Freedom or Type-2 Mixmaster remailers. But, nobody has ever attempted anything like the implementation of a global, decentralized, fully anonymous trade and communication infrastructure before. Hence, chances are that such a broad, complicated strategy will work. But first, what are the current problems standing in the way of the achievement of that goal? Realize that the establishment of the first business and private communication infrastructure that couldn't be regulated or effectively banned by governments equals a great confrontation between individual and government interests; perhaps the first major nonviolent confrontation in western countries after the violent days of past revolutions. Now, without any part of the implementation of the infrastructure itself having to be illegal according to current laws, anything that is a de-facto threat to today's authorities resting on bona-fide subjective law, can be declared illegal -- if through no other means, then by "democratic" criminalization through the manipulation of popular opinion through the association with terrorism and other non-sequitours. It is this, and the necessity for political correctness and social acceptibility of today's manipulated western cultures, that practically all significant major businesses adhere to. Most managers feel that their company's success, their customer relations, their very survival, depends on being politically correct and devoting time and energy into what their government deems to be "important tasks", "valid business activity" and "beneficial to society". Yet, those managers and CEOs of major businesses are deeply mistaken. Many of today's business leaders are merely non-thinking, easy-going individuals, manipulated by public-opinion games into a following-mode of following the "public interest" -- actually coming down to political agendas of a few influential lobbyists -- including tax authorities, banking authorities, socialist politicians and other destructive political hardliners. As long as top business executives shun the controversial politically incorrect, they keep shunning the confrontational dynamics of real business -- expansions into new, untouched sectors and strategies that go beyond competition -- especially the competition of government and businesses who count on political support to "succeed" economically. As long as controversial trade, development and infrastructure-building business projects are shunned by stagnant major companies, which once were active business giants, their only option is to continue faking business success and growth off the existing assets of the often great, valuable companies they manage; through creative bookkeeping and projects that only are profitable through government privileges like "public" funding or corrupt, competition-destroying legal/regulatory advantages. To get involved in a confrontation-mode project, a business must be ready for the politically incorrect, be willing to ignore intimidations, and must be growing or willing to grow through hard, independent, competitive efforts and money-generating actions of all of management and all employees. Also, those companies must achieve a large customer base and broad private-sector support in the early phase to be economically and technically successful. >From a technical point of view, the new economical infrastructure would be based on strong cryptography and an ad-hoc public key infrastructuring model. For it to be decentralized, all participating parties should be equal in respect to the kind of communication and communication infrastructure, i.e. a peer-to-peer network. This would effectively mean a decentralized, encrypted network infrastructure on top of the decentralized public Internet. This infrastructure would provide for anonymity (via routing over multiple machines using routers that maintain distinct keys and routing information for each source and destination) or pseudonymity (i.e. anonymity in which parties are associated with an established, verifiable alias/pseudonym which however is not directly linked to and does not reveal their official identity), depending on what is necessary for a particular step in a business transaction. On top of that infrastructure, a decentralized supply/demand infrastructure could be built, with computer-based matching -- either, integrated into an automated peer-to-peer protocol, directly between individual parties, or done by one or many bartering agencies who collect supply and demand messages and provide automated matching services. One array of problems that naturally emerges under anonymous conditions, are reputation issues -- as traditional reputation, trust and legal liability that are given with officially issued identities (i.e. government identities), do not exist or at least cannot be verified and relied on. For an anonymous/ pseudonymous trade system to work, it must efficiently deal with the issue of trust and reputation under conditions lacking an infallible identification of individual parties. With a protocol supporting verifiable identity-hiding pseudonyms that last permanently or for a longer time, initial reputation/trust could be established for untrusted newcomers after a first successful mutually consentual transaction, which would then continue to grow on subsequent transactions. Reputation of a peer increases if he has provided the promised values (including pseudo-currency) according to the transaction, and is given mutually to each other by two or more parties involved in a transaction. Technically, that reputation could take the form of serialized confirmation tracking numbers combined with a cryptography-based digital signature by the party confirming another party's reputation. In anonymous networks, reputation becomes a value in itself because it guarantees more transactions, trade and profit. Money, like pseudocurrencies, is merely an abstract promise to pay later, and exchanged goods and services are direct payments, while reputation assures security in-, and provides potential for trade. Hence, striving for high reputation means more opportunities profits on the direct trade level. Besides internet-driven local and global bartering communities, further great potential is held by the idea of anonymous digital cash (e-cash) systems. Though not using official currency, the existing digital cash systems are not perfectly safe because their transfers can always be logged and parties have to be identified to central servers and each other. Anonymous e-cash and other digital currencies and checks (including anonymous bartering checks) can best be established in a network that allows routing by 1) writing down the value of the check or money transaction 2) adding a unique serial number 3) digitally signing the check with a signing key that identifies the paying party by a known (reputation/trust-based) pseudonym. This one-time certificate for a money or bartering transaction is then sent over an anonymizing network, encrypted with the public key of the recipient's pseudonymous identity. Alternatively, according to a "BlackNet" scheme, encryption keys can also be exchanged in secret, so they are only known by both parties, with only the public-identification signature signing the transaction certificate (which happens a level beyond that encryption layer for confidentiality). Then, those messages are unidentifiable for third parties and can be posted into public forums (such as news://alt.anonymous.messages) using anonymous remailers. A broadly used digital cash system, however, would provide many more benefits than just anonymity. With automated end-to-end transactions, money transactions would become faster and the economy would become more efficient, especially when guaranteed to be free of force-backed bureaucracy. With money being circulated faster and more money circulated within transactions than in static investments or savings, the global amount of money effectively available increases. As a proof, consider that since the financial world similarly migrated to satellite- and computer-based digital bank transactions and online stock trade, the amount of wealth available at any given time has increased, making modern world trade possible. This new infrastructure would most probably resemble an ad-hoc heterogenous environment with many different digital businesses doing combinations of banking, trade, trust and anonymity services. Only some of them would have to offer anonymity, some could offer converting online/digital currency to official currency or paper checks describing an equivalent of digital currency. Also, currency-less bartering checks could be used online and offline, even anonymously with a system that supports it. Bartering is simply a matter of supply and demand, which could be recorded (anonymously) in form of checks with serial numbers, or saved on smart cards which would contain the necessary cryptography algorithms, standard protocols, and public keys. With financial transactions and other (i.e. bartering) exchanges encrypted with public keys of the participating parties and reposted anonymously, they efficiently become independent of, and safe from the surveillance by any third party. Anyone issuing and accepting anonymous transactions could then decide to become a customer of a digital business offering anonymous conversion between pseudocurrencies and official currencies. Payment would largely be in percentages of the exchanged wealth, which could be exchanged anonymously. With confidential and pseudonymous transactions, new types of businesses are imaginable. For example, eBay like matching/bartering services based on pseudonymity and reputation, which could match supply/demand in goods, services, inofficial currency exchange and more. Also, thinking about the huge market that advertising is today, especially on the internet, ad space, ad services, site traffic and hits could become niche markets with dedicated businesses offering ad-hoc exchanges in advertising. Using certification hierarchies, all of these services could also allow users to "export" their reputation/trust gained from successful transactions to other markets. Incubating Unbeatable Businesses The development of wide-scope business policy concepts to protect from taxation and governments; the development of digital trade centers and routine forms of bartering trade, and marketing them to combat inflation and regulation; the design and creation of the underlying technology-based infrastructure for anonymous networks against government regulations, and the anonymization of existing business systems through informal gateways and inofficial exchanges; this is a comprehensive complex of plans. Ultimately, these plans have to be achieved, by one or more businesses, for creating a safe and free future. Here is an outline of a combination approach. Financial wide-scope accounting is necessary for basic individual independence from governement and its destructive institutions. It is going to take the form of general, officially legal accounting strategies in business. The ultimate goal is to prevent all government attacks against private property, -income and -assets. The necessary requirement is the readiness of businesses on a broad scale to adopt new accounting strategies, business policies, business philosophy and payment policies. Digital trade centers are necessary to prevent government interference with world markets. It is going to take the form of legal companies, departments, and business models offering logistics and communication infrastructure for financial trade and exchanging goods and services without currency. The ultimate goal is to prevent inflation and economic depression caused by government taxation and control exerted through regulated official currencies. The necessary requirement is the establishment of providers of logistics trade networks, and reputation/trust systems for pseudonymity, starting websites, and offering start-up funding to build infrastructures for global decentralized trade. Technological anonymization/pseudonymization infrastructures for free trade networks allow untraceable money transactions based on reputation/trust schemes, privacy concepts, and a stealth, decentralized, internet-based network infrastructure which utilizes strong cryptography. This leads to the possibility of uncontrollable, unpreventable, "illegal" money transactions. The ultimate goal is to establish indestructible black markets to catapult the world economy beyond direct government control. The necessary requirements are the establishment of a performant new peer-to-peer internet infrastructure that provides decentralized, indestructible anonymity/pseudonymity, privacy and confidentiality (using public-key encryption, digital signatures and public key infrastructure), as well as trust/reputation services that work with pseudonyms -- as a base for reliable financial transactions. Depending on its size and possibilities, a business may take on all three of these goals, one at a time (although they will eventually be interdependent to some degree), or a partial accomplishment of one of these goals. As the involvement of a Fortune 500 or larger company into this plan cannot be expected, it has to be started by small business/bantam company efforts. So, a more segmented approach is the most realistic -- especially, when it comes to coordinating the efforts of marketing and business-to-business affiliation and infrastructure building. Any company initially creating and offering the technological or logistic infrastructure would do best by disclaiming direct liability of third party transactions performed over its independent infrastructure. Making the burden of legal liability to the third parties who use the infrastructure clear, similar to current internet trading businesses which aim to emulate the Napster business model -- by officially taking the liability that may or may not exist (including tax liability) to the third parties who actually do the transactions -- would mitigate much of the legal risk involved. To get to a free unregulated market one has to physically operate from within today's regulated society. Unarguably, one of the biggest problem is the inability of the majority of persons and small businesses to build private (and investment) capital. Taxes are designed to destroy or prevent accumulation of capital, earnings and potential investments that are necessary for individuals to found their own businesses and jobs, for developing new products, technologies and bootstrapping new business infrastructures. Bartering somewhat does legally solve this problem by allowing tax-free bartering "assets" to exist (according to current regulations on bartering), in form of non-monetary "I-owe-you" service/good exchange checks and certificates. To be efficient at this, however, bartering must include better capital building mechanisms legal according to the current system, possibly via allowing safe accumulated credits based on trust certification, i.e. credits for specific material goods and services, which would not be official or inofficial currency but could serve as de-facto savings currency. The most probable chance for a commercial success of an anonymous trade network is providing commercial incentives for maintaining high standards of reputation. In this probably scenario, reputation would necessarily have to become a second-level currency (as result of successful, mutually consentual transactions, and secondarily, as result of a vote of trust by already highly trusted parties). eBay like systems would be used to build reputations and meta-certification authorities would make the transfer of reputation between different anonymous businesses possible (which could be practically realized as joint ventures between businesses willing to exchange user reputations between their different systems). At least three definite requirements exist for any businesses that expects to be able to launch a project advancing one or more of the three free-trade goals as stated above. First, the independence from political correctness and social acceptance. A competent business must act independently of the opinion or wishes of any authority, only satisfying demand where it objectively exists, by hard effort and trial and error strategies. Fear from government, political entrepreneurs, and business regulations, but also with government agencies, attempts to profit by "public" jobs or government privileges, in the sense of political entrepreneurialism, will hold back the competitiveness and dynamic of a business too much for it to be able to participate in a project as controversial as this. Secondly, the ability to step out of close-ended viewpoints and business strategies is an absolute necessity for growth and success in new, unique areas of business, (as also outlined under http://www.neo-tech.com/global). Businesses must be ready to accept that the evasion of government restrictions through peaceful, volitional, business/technology/free-trade actions and strategies will yield benefits for themselves, and ultimately for society and everyone. This is an important not only for individual businesses, but for the whole corporate world. The question of a controversial new area of business being eventually able to succeed is a question of attaining a critical mass of businesses and entrepreneurs who are ready to discard dogmas for new, "politically incorrect", open-ended business viewpoints and strategies. Hence, being able to easily affiliate with other companies finding business associates, and being very active in the business-to-business area is a key competency of a bantam company participating in a free-trade project, which ultimately requires getting broader support in the business world. Third, building effective customer confidence in systems which do not base on traditional currency, and even in anonymous markets which are vastly different from known economical systems, is crucial. Despite the probably vehement opposition by established media/government authorities, honest business/ technology/media pioneers must propagate the honest facts and show how the goal of markets with full choice, privacy and freedom leads to the greatest net benefits for essentially everyone. High efforts and much care are also required for designing business solutions around the basic concepts that are comfortable, usable and appealing from the start, in order to create a large base of customers/businesses which broadly use and thereby support the bartering and anonymity features of a project, and with that, contribute to its decentralized infrastructure. Such approaches require fast, dynamic and highly adaptive strategies which balance between trial-and-error strategies, and integrated trust/confidence-building strategies from the very beginning. The different aspects of a business venturing into a free-market building project in areas of finance, trust services, trade services, internet services, communication, and so on, include at least: technical (mostly internet software, cryptography and pki, network software, website interfaces, user interfaces, secure payment applications, interfaces to existing e-commerce systems); funding (fund raising and investment, currency systems design, currency stability, user fees, price monitoring, capital management, offshore management, general accounting); advertisement and marketing (promotion and press handling, legal issues and court battles, if necessary also against slander, business plan design, confidence and trust building, mass distribution, quality assurance and ease of use for user applications, marketing strategies, perhaps introducing Neo-Tech memes, business contacts); art and business image (website design, user application design, quality for user-friendlyless, ease of use and general appearance of software and offline systems, corporate identity, press contacts/protection from press slander); economics (wide-scope level infrastructure design, testing and building; establishment of local communities, trials and test deployments of projects). This publication ends here, after having provided much practical, action-mode business information, possible strategies, caveats and solutions, and wide-scope viewpoints on society in respect of a free trade project. What you make of that knowledge, individually, or as entrepreneur, is up to you. Independent economy means independence from criminal politics, regardless of what anyone else thinks, says, or does. Try extrapolating that potential and integrating it with different wide-scope effects. Independence means freedom to create. Efficient value production means increasing efficiency in any areas of business, especially new technology and applied science, including communication, medicine and publishing. Your own efforts count and can effect changes. Realize that anyone investing his or her efforts into the first, most basic steps toward secure routes to business freedom can profit enormously. The achievement of a free trade project is up to individual actions. In any case, it will eventually be achieved, and the speed and the specific routes that are going to be taken are simply undetermined, open opportunities, waiting to be seized. From jya at pipeline.com Fri Jun 21 18:57:40 2002 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 18:57:40 -0700 Subject: DOJ proposes US data-rentention law. In-Reply-To: <20020620191908.526F27B4B@berkshire.research.att.com> Message-ID: Data retention is being done now by programs and services which cache data to ease loading on servers and networks. No approval needed from anybody, indeed, the service is being offered as a cost saver and expeditor of net services to ISPs and anybody else who might be eager to get around restrictions on data retention, not because of privacy and civil liberties concerns but because the increase in loading and competition is driving the technology. What will prevent an ISP from sharing its cached data retention, -- performed to remain competitive in the market -- with officials who just might ask for a favor through the legal department, knowing nobody will know what's going on, and what the hell, that nobody cares so long as the cost of services is kept low? Why not give up privacy for a cheap deal? A skeptic might wonder why all the folderole about the EuroParl and DoJ proposals and implementatios when the really good stuff is already accessible, no complicated procedures required to sample the stored produce. No evidence that anybody has taken a look, grabbed some data of the usual suspects. A sample of above-board date retention products via caching offerer, which brags all its products retain data in the interest of always marketable cost savings: http://www.soliddata.com/solutions/telecom_appbrief.html The URL sent by anonymous. From editor at weeklytelegraphmail.co.uk Fri Jun 21 12:00:32 2002 From: editor at weeklytelegraphmail.co.uk (editor at weeklytelegraphmail.co.uk) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 20:00:32 +0100 Subject: Weekly Telegraph Newsletter Issue 14! Message-ID: <1532-1901db3436e2d1fa@weeklytelegraphmail.co.uk> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 13875 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: masthead.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 15909 bytes Desc: not available URL: From vab at cryptnet.net Fri Jun 21 17:47:39 2002 From: vab at cryptnet.net (V Alex Brennen) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 20:47:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Vinnie is looking for work.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At the cypherpunks meeting in SF during CodeCon, I think it was Dave Del Torto who asked for a show of hands of punks looking for work. It was better than half. With the economy starting to improve and rumors of a trickle of VC money, now might not be a bad time to try and launch a start up. I know Sandy was trying to get something started down south. I've been spending allot of time on cypherpunk type projects, but with a day job progress has been slow and hard. I'd be interested in joining a company to work on something that could translate into technical progress for the cypherpunk movement. I think there's good opportunity in digital signature applications, PKI alternatives, and reputation systems. Unfortunately, I don't see opportunity with electronic currency - at least not in the US. - VAB From MAILER-DAEMON at mail.hal-pc.org Fri Jun 21 20:23:34 2002 From: MAILER-DAEMON at mail.hal-pc.org (MAILER-DAEMON at mail.hal-pc.org) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 22:23:34 -0500 Subject: Increase Sales, Accept Credit Cards [r54fa] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The domain home.com no longer accepts email. If you are trying to email someone with an @home.com email address you should contact them by other means to get their new email address. --- From ivona at alloymail.com Sat Jun 22 07:51:28 2002 From: ivona at alloymail.com (ivona at alloymail.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 06:51:28 -0800 Subject: Lenders Compete 4 your Business Message-ID: <1scv4nb2g20t21.bi106t5lj28b12s52d3@cpimssmtpa11.msn.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 9545 bytes Desc: not available URL: From trvlright_de at customermail.expedia.com Sat Jun 22 07:17:49 2002 From: trvlright_de at customermail.expedia.com (Expedia.de) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 07:17:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Mit AUSTRIAN AIRLINES nach Kanada ab 565 Euro! Message-ID: <20020622071749.D2ED.4308209-2764@customermail.expedia.com> Guten Tag Haben Sie schon einmal daran gedacht, den Indian Summer in Kanada zu erleben? 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Alle Rechte vorbehalten. ************************************************************ This mail was sent to: cypherpunks at ALGEBRA.COM Message-Id: <20020622071749.D2ED.4308209-2764 at customermail.expedia.com> From measl at mfn.org Sat Jun 22 06:32:30 2002 From: measl at mfn.org (measl at mfn.org) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 08:32:30 -0500 (CDT) Subject: an uncrackable msg In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Jun 2002, David nolan wrote: > hello i got your e-mail address off of a web site, and i was hoping you could help me crack it, if ya dont feel like > helping thats ok. > > hksqphpkwasyoqgjwwscocgvwtavvgsjhthgpgsjpcwgsfanvkhnsphcp = GEORGE BUSH DIDDLES LITTLE BOYS WHILE WATCHING TAPED FOOT > iptsvwggjoaakwqsuvwhahfsqpqwwpksugphjoisqpnhwpqsnpqwfpma = AGE OF INNOCENTS BEING MAIMED AND KILLED IN PALESTINE ST > iskhkvpwxaighscpwvseovgthjsgpkpfwuskoogvwgsvougqwuacvcsph = OP PREPARE FOR MORE ISRAELI MASSACRES OF INNOCENT CIVILIA > ihqpgsvpywjgjsgokwtseajvjhwskhopupcauwpvshcswwpggofsgwrgg = NS STOP PREPARE FOR MORE MASSACRES OF INNOCENTS BY CHINA > ocsphtpepcaqwfsfvqhghzsfpp = STOP BUSH TO SUPPORT ALL!! > i have no idea how to do it and any help would be appreciated. > also if ya do crack it could you tell me what it is and what decription method you used Divination. -- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin at mfn.org If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... -------------------------------------------------------------------- From retrabucextaok at hotmail.com Sat Jun 22 20:01:12 2002 From: retrabucextaok at hotmail.com (Donna Berris) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 10:01:12 -1700 Subject: Larger breasts with NEW Electronic Bra 31928 Message-ID: <0000133e3d15$0000184a$000072df@mx14.hotmail.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2945 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ester_win6199 at juno.com Fri Jun 21 19:21:11 2002 From: ester_win6199 at juno.com (Marshal Rutledge) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 10:21:11 +0800 Subject: dbfincher,Most effective means for boosting human growth hormone. Message-ID: <200206232107.QAA31773@einstein.ssz.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1932 bytes Desc: not available URL: From steve at esoteric.ca Sat Jun 22 08:55:26 2002 From: steve at esoteric.ca (Steve Fulton) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 11:55:26 -0400 Subject: DOJ proposes US data-rentention law. In-Reply-To: References: <20020620191908.526F27B4B@berkshire.research.att.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020622112623.01e64d88@postoffice.esoteric.ca> At 18:57 21/06/2002 -0700, John Young wrote: >Data retention is being done now by programs and services >which cache data to ease loading on servers and networks. >[...] John, As a systems administrator @ an ISP, I can tell flat out that the software you describe has nothing to do with ISP services. The software provides caching services for telecom companies (ie. billing, WAP, voice mail alerts etc). I see nothing that mentions typical ISP services, like e-mail or web-browsing. It is software designed to impress the executive level with pie charts and promises of reduced hardware costs. No one likes spending $50k on a NAS or Fibre Channel / RAID 10 box. Next time John, I suggest you turn your sites on caching software like Squid. Know what? I'm not even afraid to provide the URL! http://www.squid-cache.org .. you may even discover it has US Intelligence Community(tm) links, dating back many years! Incredible, huh? ISP's like the one I work for use Squid to save on bandwidth costs by caching oft-visited websites. Unfortunately, we (like most if not all ISP's) cannot afford the massive disk arrays (or the space they would take up, even the electricity) that would be necessary to retain data *for one day*. Geez, I don't think the government gonna like that. That's doesn't even bring us to the technical abilities of all the different pieces of software that must be re-written (en masse) to satisfy government desires. For instance, let's try e-mail software.. There are numerous companies and individuals who offer their own versions of e-mail server software. Microsoft's Exchange and Ipswitch's IMail for the Windows crowd who like spending lots of money, or Qmail, Postfix, Exim and even Sendmail for the Unix crowd. There are dozen's more, but you get the point. All that software will need to be rewritten. Then all the e-mail servers will need to be upgraded and tested. THEN more disk space added just to handle all the extraneous information like from who and to, from where (say originating IP and from what server host and IP) etc etc etc ad nauseam. Whoops! Let's not forget tape backups! I'm buying 3M stock come Monday! But what happens if we have a disk failure and the logs are lost? Hmm... Anyway, that is just for e-mail.. Imagine what HTTP, or FTP, or whatever can't-live-without service someone invents in the future? Data retention is unworkable even to the biggest of companies. Even the NSA cannot store that kind of data without a significant (and secret) budget. The only ones deriving any benefit from this are law enforcement and computer hardware & commercial software manufacturers. Maybe its an economic stimulus package in disguise? -- Steve. From todd10000 at hotmail.com Sat Jun 22 05:29:20 2002 From: todd10000 at hotmail.com (David nolan) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 13:29:20 +0100 Subject: an uncrackable msg Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 804 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jis at mit.edu Sat Jun 22 11:40:00 2002 From: jis at mit.edu (Jeffrey I. Schiller) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 14:40:00 -0400 Subject: DOJ proposes US data-rentention law. In-Reply-To: <005c01c2196e$770b6e50$206694d1@LUCKYVAIO>; from shamrock@cypherpunks.to on Fri, Jun 21, 2002 at 02:56:10PM -0700 References: <200206210705.DAA04955@bual.research.att.com> <005c01c2196e$770b6e50$206694d1@LUCKYVAIO> Message-ID: <20020622144000.C55@mit.edu> On Fri, Jun 21, 2002 at 02:56:10PM -0700, Lucky Green wrote: > Locate the button in your MUA that's labeled "Use secure connection" or > something to that effect, search the docs for your MTA for the words > "STARTTLS", "relaying", and potentially "SASL", don't use your ISP's > smtp server, encourage those that you are communicating with to do the > same, and the email data retention laws will be of no bother to you. Of course the anti-spam people are telling ISP's to block port 25 and require end-users to forward their e-mail through the ISP owned mail gateways... I've always had the fear that in the clammer to get rid of spam we would wind up building a centralized mail routing system, the spy's delight! -Jeff --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From bill.stewart at pobox.com Sat Jun 22 16:29:16 2002 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 16:29:16 -0700 Subject: CP meet at H2K2? In-Reply-To: <20020620230732.GA20380@ils.unc.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.1.20020622162735.04c892e8@idiom.com> Several people said yes... You're hereby designated as the "Official San Francisco Bay Area Cpunks-Meeting-in-Exile" :-) At 07:07 PM 06/20/2002 -0400, Greg Newby wrote: >H2K2, 2600's conference, is at Hotel Penn in New York >July 12-14. http://www.h2k2.net > >CP contributors who are scheduled include >John Young and yours truly. Maybe others I >didn't recognize or see yet. I heard of a few other >tentatives. > >The full conference schedule should be online within >the next couple of days. I'm thinking of a CP >meet Saturday night July 12. Anyone else gonna be there? > -- Greg From geer at world.std.com Sat Jun 22 14:37:05 2002 From: geer at world.std.com (geer at world.std.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 17:37:05 -0400 Subject: DOJ proposes US data-rentention law. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 22 Jun 2002 11:55:26 EDT." <5.1.0.14.0.20020622112623.01e64d88@postoffice.esoteric.ca> Message-ID: <200206222137.RAA2724348@shell.TheWorld.com> Steve, Not arguing, but the hardware cost curve for storage has a shorter halving time than the cost curve for CPU (Moore's Law) and the corresponding halving time for bandwidth is shorter still. If that relationship holds up over a period of years, today's tradeoffs between cache, re-computation, and anticipatory transmission would presumably change in the direction the economics dictates. And of course, if I really care that a particular piece of data is non-discoverable I either have to encrypt it, never transmit it, or go on one whopping search mission. Or so I think. Does the world look different from your vantage? --dan From mailer at mailer.prospero.com Sat Jun 22 15:31:13 2002 From: mailer at mailer.prospero.com (Delphi Forums) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 18:31:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: URGENT cypherpunks9 - Please select your Delphi Forums membership level Message-ID: <9AEA8D5B0CF2@msx7.prospero.com> URGENT cypherpunks9 - Please select your Delphi Forums membership level If you are unable to view this email in its entirety, click here or
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-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 7899 bytes Desc: not available URL: From steve at esoteric.ca Sat Jun 22 15:38:07 2002 From: steve at esoteric.ca (Steve Fulton) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 18:38:07 -0400 Subject: DOJ proposes US data-rentention law. In-Reply-To: <200206222137.RAA2724348@shell.TheWorld.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020622182232.01f26900@postoffice.esoteric.ca> At 17:37 22/06/2002 -0400, geer at world.std.com wrote: >Not arguing, but the hardware cost curve for storage has a shorter >halving time than the cost curve for CPU (Moore's Law) and the >corresponding halving time for bandwidth is shorter still. You've got a point. Storage is becoming less and less expensive per gigabyte, especially for IDE drives. If you're using a RAID set up, IDE doesn't cut it, SCSI is the way to go (for now). SCSI is a lot cheaper than it used to be, but it's still over $1000 for a single 70gig drive in Canada. For maximum redundancy in one rack-mount server, RAID 10 is the way to go. That means for every 1 drive, there must be an an exact duplicate. Costs can increase exponentially. That said, storage isn't the only expense when creating a large, fast and redundant file server (especially for caching). The fastest way to get data from a computer to the file server is via fibre channel. And fibre channel hardware isn't cheap. Last time I looked, a DIY RAID 10 system with 15 drives (1 hot-standby), case and fibre channel capability was ~ $30-35k. For each workstation that connects to it, there is a ~1k charge for the fibre channel client card. Don't even go near a fibre channel switch, they run $10-15k apiece, and don't handle more than 10-15 connections. Plus cabling. See, it adds up -- and that's just for one unit. To do the kind of data retention proposed in th EU, that is the kind of hardware that would be necessary. Plus a rack of tape backup drives running 24x7. Perhaps this sounds extreme, and it very well could be. My concern isn't so much based on what the law says must be retained, the penalties if the data isn't retained are what worry me. Could a system or network administrator be charged if the data is unavailable? What if their is a plausible reason (ie. hardware failed a year ago, fire)? What if the company cannot afford it? What charges are brought against the company? These questions are the reality for sysadmins in the EU. If Canada implemented a data retention law, I would be extremely concerned about my personal liability as well as corporate -- Canada already can charge a network administrator who the police believe is negligent in blocking (and removing) copyrighted software from computers he/she is responsible. It has happened. My understanding it has to do with an RCMP settlement over the PROMIS software scandal, but that's another topic. -- Steve From tradehd at dreamwiz.com Sat Jun 22 03:00:26 2002 From: tradehd at dreamwiz.com (smith) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 19:00:26 +0900 Subject: Personal Alcohol Detector Message-ID: <200206220955.g5M9tHE32077@locust.minder.net> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1738 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jya at pipeline.com Sat Jun 22 19:02:19 2002 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 19:02:19 -0700 Subject: DOJ proposes US data-rentention law. In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020622182232.01f26900@postoffice.esoteric.ca> References: <200206222137.RAA2724348@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: I appreciate what an honorable ISP admin will do to abide customer rights over intrusive snoopers and perhaps cooperative administrators above the pay grade of a sysadmin. Know that a decent sysadmin is on for about 1/3 of a weekday for 24x7 systems is a small comfort but leaves unanswered what can happen: 1. During that time when a hero is elsewhere. 2. Upstream of the ISP, the router of the ISP and the nodes serving routers, as well as at a variety of cache systems serving there various levels. 3. At major providers serving a slew of smaller ISPs. In this case I reported a while back of a sysadmin telling what my ISP, NTT/Verio, is doing at its major node in Dallas: allowing the FBI to freely scan everything that passes through the Verio system under an agreement reached with NTT when it bought Verio. No matter what a local sysadmin does with data, it remains very possible that data is scanned, stored and fucked with in nasty ways coming and going such that no single sysadmin can catch it. End to end crypt certainly could help but there is still a fair abount of TA that can be done unless packets are truly disintegrated and/or camouflaged at the source before data leaves the originating box. Pumping through anonymizers, inserting within onions, subdermal pigging back on innocuous wireless packets of the financial advisor door, multiple partial sends, stego-ing, data static and traffic salting, bouncing off the moon or windowpane, what else can you do when an eager beaver industry is racing to do whatever it takes to build markets among the data controllers breathing hot about threats to national security and handing out life-saving contracts to hard-up peddlers shocked out of their skivvies with digital downturn. No patriotic act is too sleazy these days that cannot be justified by terror of red ink and looming layoffs. --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Sat Jun 22 19:03:49 2002 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 19:03:49 -0700 Subject: Ross's TCPA paper Message-ID: <00aa01c21a5a$3aff1690$206694d1@LUCKYVAIO> I recently had a chance to read Ross Anderson's paper on the activities of the TCPA at http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/ftp/users/rja14/.temp/toulouse.pdf I must confess that after reading the paper I am quite relieved to finally have solid confirmation that at least one other person has realized (outside the authors and proponents of the bill) that the Hollings bill, while failing to mention TCPA anywhere in the text of the bill, was written with the specific technology provided by the TCPA in mind for the purpose of mandating the inclusion of this technology in all future general-purpose computing platforms, now that the technology has been tested, is ready to ship, and the BIOS vendors are on side. Perhaps the Hollings "Consumer Broadband and Digital Television Promotion Act" bill would be more accurately termed the "TCPA Enablement Act". BTW, the module that Ross calls a "Fritz" in his paper after the author of the bill, long had a name: it is called a Trusted Platform Module (TPM). Granted, in the context of the TCPA and the Hollings bill, the term "trusted" is used somewhat differently than the customers of future motherboards, which are all slated to include a TPM, might expect: "trusted" here means that the members of the TCPA trust that the TPM will make it near impossible for the owner of that motherboard to access supervisor mode on the CPU without their knowledge, they trust that the TPM will enable them to determine remotely if the customer has a kernel-level debugger loaded, and they trust that the TPM will prevent a user from bypassing OS protections by installing custom PCI cards to read out memory directly via DMA without going through the CPU. The public and the media now need to somehow, preferably soon, arrive at the next stage of realization: the involvement in the TCPA by many companies who's CEO's wrote the widely distributed open letter to the movie studios, telling the studios, or more precisely -- given that it was an open letter -- telling the public, that mandating DRM's in general-purpose computing platforms may not be a good idea, is indicative of one of two possible scenarios: 1) the CEO's of said computer companies are utterly unaware of a major strategic initiative their staff has been diligently executing for about 3 years, in the case of the principals in the TCPA, such as Intel, Compaq, HP, and Microsoft, several years longer. 2) the CEO's wrote this open letter as part of a deliberate "good cop, bad cop" ploy, feigning opposition to DRM in general computing platforms to pull the wool over the public's eye for hopefully long enough to achieve widespread deployment of the mother of all DRM solution in the market place. I do not know which of the two potential scenarios holds true. However, I believe public debate regarding the massive change in the way users will interact with their future computers due to the efforts of the TCPA and the Hollings bill would be greatly aided by attempts to establish which of the two scenarios is the fact the case. --Lucky Green From cypherpunks at algebra.com Sat Jun 22 16:27:20 2002 From: cypherpunks at algebra.com (cypherpunks at algebra.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 19:27:20 -0400 Subject: your mailing list, only be hit by Spam. So protect them, and Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3219 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cypherpunks at algebra.com Sat Jun 22 16:27:20 2002 From: cypherpunks at algebra.com (cypherpunks at algebra.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 19:27:20 -0400 Subject: your mailing list, only be hit by Spam. So protect them, and Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3223 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Mailer-Daemon at hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net Sat Jun 22 19:49:08 2002 From: Mailer-Daemon at hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (Mail Delivery System) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 19:49:08 -0700 Subject: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender Message-ID: This message was created automatically by mail delivery software (Exim). A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed: jgmoy at bga.com SMTP error from remote mailer after RCPT TO:: host bga.com.realtime.mail1.psmtp.com [64.75.1.251]: 550 Command RCPT User not OK sweet001 at worldnet.att.net SMTP error from remote mailer after RCPT TO:: host gateway3.worldnet.att.net [204.127.134.23]: 550 Invalid recipient: daniela at worldpassage.net SMTP error from remote mailer after RCPT TO:: host mx0.idiom.com [216.240.32.1]: 550 ... User unknown ------ This is a copy of the message, including all the headers. ------ From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Sat Jun 22 19:52:57 2002 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 19:52:57 -0700 Subject: CP meet at H2K2? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00ab01c21a61$17373880$206694d1@LUCKYVAIO> David wrote: > On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, Greg Newby wrote: > > > the next couple of days. I'm thinking of a CP > > meet Saturday night July 12. Anyone else gonna be there? > > I should be there, since I'm free and in the area. > > In a similar vein, who's going to be at DEF CON? I won't be at H2K2, but I will be at DEFCON. My girlfriend has the last day of her California Bar exam the day before the conference; parties are anticipated. :-) My room is at the St. Tropez, easily identifiable by the Gladsen flag flying from a second story balcony overlooking the pool. --Lucky From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Sat Jun 22 19:55:18 2002 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 19:55:18 -0700 Subject: CP meet at H2K2? Message-ID: <00b301c21a61$6b0d0340$206694d1@LUCKYVAIO> Sorry for the typo. Of course the flag in question is a "Gadsden" flag. --Lucky > -----Original Message----- > From: Lucky Green [mailto:shamrock at cypherpunks.to] > Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2002 7:53 PM > To: 'cypherpunks at lne.com' > Subject: RE: CP meet at H2K2? > > > David wrote: > > On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, Greg Newby wrote: > > > > > the next couple of days. I'm thinking of a CP > > > meet Saturday night July 12. Anyone else gonna be there? > > > > I should be there, since I'm free and in the area. > > > > In a similar vein, who's going to be at DEF CON? > > I won't be at H2K2, but I will be at DEFCON. My girlfriend > has the last day of her California Bar exam the day before > the conference; parties are anticipated. :-) > > My room is at the St. Tropez, easily identifiable by the > Gladsen flag flying from a second story balcony overlooking the pool. > > --Lucky From Drugs at runbox.com Sat Jun 22 19:00:08 2002 From: Drugs at runbox.com (Roland Edmister) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 20:00:08 -0600 Subject: cypherpunks,Lose weight now Message-ID: <200206230530.AAA25492@einstein.ssz.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2112 bytes Desc: not available URL: From eresrch at eskimo.com Sat Jun 22 21:14:57 2002 From: eresrch at eskimo.com (Mike Rosing) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 21:14:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: <00aa01c21a5a$3aff1690$206694d1@LUCKYVAIO> Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Jun 2002, Lucky Green wrote: > I must confess that after reading the paper I am quite relieved to > finally have solid confirmation that at least one other person has > realized (outside the authors and proponents of the bill) that the > Hollings bill, while failing to mention TCPA anywhere in the text of the > bill, was written with the specific technology provided by the TCPA in > mind for the purpose of mandating the inclusion of this technology in > all future general-purpose computing platforms, now that the technology > has been tested, is ready to ship, and the BIOS vendors are on side. A touch hand wavy, but interesting. (and thank you to JY for the pointer.) > "trusted" here means that the members of the TCPA trust that the TPM > will make it near impossible for the owner of that motherboard to access > supervisor mode on the CPU without their knowledge, they trust that the > TPM will enable them to determine remotely if the customer has a > kernel-level debugger loaded, and they trust that the TPM will prevent a > user from bypassing OS protections by installing custom PCI cards to > read out memory directly via DMA without going through the CPU. I don't see how they expect this to work. We've already got cheap rip off motherboards, who's gonna stop cheap rip off TPM's that ain't really T? I think it moves the game into a smaller field where the players all have some bucks to begin with, but somebody will create a "TPM" that looks like the real thing, but runs cypherpunk code just fine. > 1) the CEO's of said computer companies are utterly unaware of a major > strategic initiative their staff has been diligently executing for about > 3 years, in the case of the principals in the TCPA, such as Intel, > Compaq, HP, and Microsoft, several years longer. > > 2) the CEO's wrote this open letter as part of a deliberate "good cop, > bad cop" ploy, feigning opposition to DRM in general computing platforms > to pull the wool over the public's eye for hopefully long enough to > achieve widespread deployment of the mother of all DRM solution in the > market place. 3) some people think DRM will work and some people don't, and they all work at the same company. Anyone who can comprehend the physical reality of computers can see DRM can't possibly work. Unfortunatly, that's a minorty of the human population. I think the CEO's may actually have a clue, but if there's money to be made from suckers, why not!!?? Well, I know why not, and so do you all. But I don't think mandated "Fritz" chips will fly - and it's simple economics. Logic will never work :-) Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Sat Jun 22 21:24:02 2002 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 21:24:02 -0700 Subject: DOJ proposes US data-rentention law. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00c401c21a6d$d0d45910$206694d1@LUCKYVAIO> John Young wrote: > I appreciate what an honorable ISP admin will do to abide > customer rights over intrusive snoopers and perhaps > cooperative administrators above the pay grade of a sysadmin. > Know that a decent sysadmin is on > for about 1/3 of a weekday for 24x7 systems is a small > comfort but leaves unanswered what can happen: > > 1. During that time when a hero is elsewhere. > > 2. Upstream of the ISP, the router of the ISP and the nodes > serving routers, as well as at a variety of cache systems > serving there various levels. To expand on John Young's inquiry, I believe it would help elevate the level of the public discourse regarding potential future US data retention and interception laws if those inclined to comment on this issue were to take the time to research similar laws already passed in other countries in the course of the customary policy laundry process. Even a brief such investigation would teach the aspiring commentator that those responsible for the installation and maintenance of governmentally mandated snooping infrastructure at the ISP are largely required to hold active security clearances. To rephrase John's very valid question in a slightly more targeted fashion: how likely is it that cleared personnel working at the ISP will refuse an official request for law enforcement assistance? --Lucky Green --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From MAILER-DAEMON at yahoo.com Sat Jun 22 19:49:11 2002 From: MAILER-DAEMON at yahoo.com (MAILER-DAEMON at yahoo.com) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 21:49:11 -0500 Subject: Delivery failure Message-ID: <200206230249.g5N2nBw0020467@ak47.algebra.com> Message from yahoo.com. Unable to deliver message to the following address(es). : This user doesn't have a yahoo.com account (bbih at yahoo.com) --- Original message follows. From jya at pipeline.com Sat Jun 22 22:47:06 2002 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 22:47:06 -0700 Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: <00aa01c21a5a$3aff1690$206694d1@LUCKYVAIO> Message-ID: Ross has shifted his TCPA paper to: http://www.ftp.cl.cam.ac.uk/ftp/users/rja14/toulouse.pdf At 07:03 PM 6/22/2002 -0700, Lucky wrote: >I recently had a chance to read Ross Anderson's paper on the activities >of the TCPA at http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/ftp/users/rja14/.temp/toulouse.pdf From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Sat Jun 22 23:01:12 2002 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 23:01:12 -0700 Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00cc01c21a7b$6a1eacd0$206694d1@LUCKYVAIO> Mike wrote quoting Lucky: > > "trusted" here means that the members of the TCPA trust > that the TPM > > will make it near impossible for the owner of that motherboard to > > access supervisor mode on the CPU without their knowledge, > they trust > > that the TPM will enable them to determine remotely if the customer > > has a kernel-level debugger loaded, and they trust that the > TPM will > > prevent a user from bypassing OS protections by installing > custom PCI > > cards to read out memory directly via DMA without going through the > > CPU. > > I don't see how they expect this to work. We've already got > cheap rip off motherboards, who's gonna stop cheap rip off > TPM's that ain't really T? I think it moves the game into a > smaller field where the players all have some bucks to begin > with, but somebody will create a "TPM" that looks like the > real thing, but runs cypherpunk code just fine. I agree with your assertion that TPM's can't prevent DRM from being broken. Nor is this the intent of introducing TPM's. The vendors have realized that they have to raise the technical bar only so high to keep those most inclined to break their systems (i.e. 16-year old Norwegians) from doing so. Those that have the knowledge and resources to break TCPA systems either won't have the time because they are engaged in gainful employment, won't be willing to take the risk, because they have accumulated sufficient material possessions to be unwilling to risk losing their possessions, not to mention their freedom, in litigation, or will break the security for their own gain, but won't release the crack to the public. Criminal enterprise falls into the latter category. The content vendors, which in this case includes the operating system and application vendors, dislike, but can live with, major criminal enterprise being the only other party to have unfettered access, since criminal enterprise is just another competitor in the market place. Most business models can survive another competitor. Where business models threaten to collapse is when the marginal cost of an illegal copy goes to zero and the public at large can obtain your goods without payment. I don't know if the TCPA's efforts will prevent this, but in the process of trying to achieve this objective, the average computers users, and even many advanced computer users, will find themselves in a new relationship with their PC: that of a pure consumer, with only the choices available to them the what the 180 TCPA's members digital signatures permit. Cloning TPM's is difficult, though not impossible. Note that all TPM's unique initial internal device keys are signed at time of manufacture by a derivative of the TCPA master key. Unless you are one of the well-known chipset or BIOS manufacturers, you can't get your TPM products signed. It is theoretically possible, though far from easy, to clone an entire TPM, keys and all. However, the moment those fake TPM's show up in the market place, their keys will simply be listed in the next CRL update. And if your OS and TPM's miss a few CRL updates, your commercial OS and all your applications will stop working. As might in the future your video card, your PCI cards, your hard drive, and your peripherals. You can try to hack around the code in the OS or firmware that performs the checks, as long as you are willing to operate your machine permanently off the Net from then on, because your system will fail the remote integrity checks, but given that this and other security relevant code inside the OS and applications are 3DES encrypted and are only decrypted inside the TPM, you can't just read the object code from disk, but get to first microprobe the decrypted op codes off the bus before taking a debugger to the code. Not a trivial task at today's PC bus speeds. Nor can you get too aggressive with the hacks, since your Fritz may simply flush the keys and leave you with a bunch of 3DES encrypted op codes and no corresponding decryption keys. Reverse engineering turns pretty dim at that point. None of these obstacles are impossible to overcome, but not by Joe Computer User, not by even the most talented 16-year old hacker, and not even by many folks in the field. Sure, I know some that could overcome it, but they may not be willing to do the time for what by then will be a crime. Come to think of it, doing so already is a crime. --Lucky Green --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From va6keii8d021 at hotmail.com Sun Jun 23 12:30:33 2002 From: va6keii8d021 at hotmail.com (Maria) Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 00:30:33 -1900 Subject: Herbal Viagra 30 day trial... FI Message-ID: <0000501253ea$00000ac5$0000684e@mx08.hotmail.com> Mother Nature's All-Natural marital aid. 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All you need to do is get your free membership. ============================================================================ ========= "This email is sent in compliance with strict anti-abuse and NO SPAM regulations. The message was sent to you as a response to your ad, an opt-in opportunity, your address was collected as a result of you posting to one of my links, reviewing your web site, you answering one of my classified ads, you have sent me an E-mail, or you unknowingly had your e-mail added to an opt-in mailing list. You may remove your E-mail address at no cost to you whatsoever, simply use the address above and write "Remove Me" in the subject line" ============================================================================ ========= From mv at cdc.gov Sun Jun 23 08:25:53 2002 From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret)) Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 08:25:53 -0700 Subject: anonymous cooperation is stable if opting out possible Message-ID: <3D15E881.810F9A7@cdc.gov> >Subject: anonymous cooperation is stable if opting out possible > >Volunteering as Red Queen Mechanism for Cooperation in Public Goods Games > Christoph Hauert, Silvia De Monte, Josef Hofbauer, and Karl Sigmund > Science May 10 2002: 1129-1132. > > >Volunteering as Red Queen Mechanism for Cooperation in Public Goods > Games > > Christoph Hauert,12 Silvia De Monte,13 Josef Hofbauer,1 Karl Sigmund14* > > The evolution of cooperation among nonrelated individuals is one of the fundamental problems in biology and social sciences. > Reciprocal altruism fails to provide a solution if interactions are not repeated often enough or groups are too large. Punishment > and reward can be very effective but require that defectors can be traced and identified. Here we present a simple but effective > mechanism operating under full anonymity. Optional participation can foil exploiters and overcome the social dilemma. In > voluntary public goods interactions, cooperators and defectors will coexist. We show that this result holds under very diverse > assumptions on population structure and adaptation mechanisms, leading usually not to an equilibrium but to an unending cycle of > adjustments (a Red Queen type of evolution). Thus, voluntary participation offers an escape hatch out of some social traps. > Cooperation can subsist in sizable groups even if interactions are not repeated, defectors remain anonymous, players have no > memory, and assortment is purely random. > > 1 Institute for Mathematics, University of Vienna, Strudlhofgasse 4, A-1090 Vienna, Austria. > 2 Department of Zoology, University of British Columbia, 6270 University Boulevard, Vancouver, BC, Canada V6T 1Z4. > 3 Department of Physics, Danish Technical University, DK-2800 Kgs. Lyngby, Denmark. > 4 International Institute for Applied Systems Analysis (IIASA), A-2361 Laxenburg, Austria. > * To whom correspondence should be addressed. E-mail: karl.sigmund at univie.ac.at From pth-02 at pacbell.net Sun Jun 23 12:53:42 2002 From: pth-02 at pacbell.net (Paul Harrison) Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 12:53:42 -0700 Subject: Ross's TCPA paper Message-ID: on 6/23/02 6:50 AM, R. A. Hettinga at rah at shipwright.com wrote: > > --- begin forwarded text > > > Status: U > From: "Lucky Green" > To: > Cc: > Subject: RE: Ross's TCPA paper > Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 23:01:12 -0700 > Sender: owner-cypherpunks at lne.com > > None of these obstacles are impossible to overcome, but not by Joe > Computer User, not by even the most talented 16-year old hacker, and not > even by many folks in the field. Sure, I know some that could overcome > it, but they may not be willing to do the time for what by then will be > a crime. Come to think of it, doing so already is a crime. > > --Lucky Green > > --- end forwarded text > The discussion of TCPA has a tendency to avoid serious discussion of what I feel is the core security issue: ownership of the platform. Comments such as Lucky's: "TPM will make it near impossible for the owner of that motherboard to access supervisor mode on the CPU without their knowledge" obfuscate this. The Trusted Computing Platform includes the TPM, the motherboard and the CPU, all wired together with some amount of tamper resistance. It is meaningless to speak of different "owners" of different parts. The owner of a TCP might be a corporate IT department (for employee machines), a cable company (for set-top boxen), or an individual. The important question is not whether trusted platforms are a good idea, but who will own them. Purchasing a TCP without the keys to the TPM is like buying property without doing a title search. Of course it is possible to _rent_ property from a title holder, and in some cases this is desirable. I would think a TCP _with_ ownership of the TPM would be every paranoid cypherpunk's wet dream. A box which would tell you if it had been tampered with either in hardware or software? Great. Someone else's TCP is more like a rental car: you want the rental company to be completely responsible for the safety of the vehicle. This is the economic achilles heal of using TCPA for DRM. Who is going to take financial responsibility for the proper operation of the platform? It can work for a set top box, but it won't fly for a general purpose computer. --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From ben at algroup.co.uk Sun Jun 23 06:21:28 2002 From: ben at algroup.co.uk (Ben Laurie) Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 14:21:28 +0100 Subject: CP meet at H2K2? References: Message-ID: <3D15CB58.9060402@algroup.co.uk> dmolnar wrote: > On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, Greg Newby wrote: > > >>the next couple of days. I'm thinking of a CP >>meet Saturday night July 12. Anyone else gonna be there? > > > I should be there, since I'm free and in the area. > > In a similar vein, who's going to be at DEF CON? Me :-) Cheers, Ben. -- http://www.apache-ssl.org/ben.html http://www.thebunker.net/ "There is no limit to what a man can do or how far he can go if he doesn't mind who gets the credit." - Robert Woodruff From onacct45 at terra.es Sun Jun 23 11:47:39 2002 From: onacct45 at terra.es (Hi It's me) Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 15:47:39 -0300 Subject: Somebody fancies you! Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 9150 bytes Desc: not available URL: From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Sun Jun 23 16:34:58 2002 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 16:34:58 -0700 Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: <8a1a80b0806f70e6790099bf297a0b96@dizum.com> Message-ID: <011401c21b0e$a645f590$206694d1@LUCKYVAIO> Anonymous writes: > Lucky Green writes regarding Ross Anderson's paper at: > Ross and Lucky should justify their claims to the community > in general and to the members of the TCPA in particular. If > you're going to make accusations, you are obliged to offer > evidence. Is the TCPA really, as they claim, a secretive > effort to get DRM hardware into consumer PCs? Or is it, as > the documents on the web site claim, a general effort to > improve the security in systems and to provide new > capabilities for improving the trustworthiness of computing platforms? Anonymous raises a valid question. To hand Anonymous additional rope, I will even assure the reader that when questioned directly, the members of the TCPA will insist that their efforts in the context of TCPA are concerned with increasing platform security in general and are not targeted at providing a DRM solution. Unfortunately, and I apologize for having to disappoint the reader, I do not feel at liberty to provide the proof Anonymous is requesting myself, though perhaps Ross might. (I have no first-hand knowledge of what Ross may or may not be able to provide). I however encourage readers familiar with the state of the art in PC platform security to read the TCPA specifications, read the TCPA's membership list, read the Hollings bill, and then ask themselves if they are aware of, or can locate somebody who is aware of, any other technical solution that enjoys a similar level of PC platform industry support, is anywhere as near to wide-spread production as TPM's, and is of sufficient integration into the platform to be able to form the platform basis for meeting the requirements of the Hollings bill. Would Anonymous perhaps like to take this question? --Lucky Green --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Sun Jun 23 16:57:12 2002 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 16:57:12 -0700 Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: <8a1a80b0806f70e6790099bf297a0b96@dizum.com> Message-ID: <000101c21b11$b6981790$0100a8c0@LUCKYVAIO> Anonymous writes: > Lucky Green writes regarding Ross Anderson's paper at: > Ross and Lucky should justify their claims to the community > in general and to the members of the TCPA in particular. If > you're going to make accusations, you are obliged to offer > evidence. Is the TCPA really, as they claim, a secretive > effort to get DRM hardware into consumer PCs? Or is it, as > the documents on the web site claim, a general effort to > improve the security in systems and to provide new > capabilities for improving the trustworthiness of computing platforms? Anonymous raises a valid question. To hand Anonymous additional rope, I will even assure the reader that when questioned directly, the members of the TCPA will insist that their efforts in the context of TCPA are concerned with increasing platform security in general and are not targeted at providing a DRM solution. Unfortunately, and I apologize for having to disappoint the reader, I do not feel at liberty to provide the proof Anonymous is requesting myself, though perhaps Ross might. (I have no first-hand knowledge of what Ross may or may not be able to provide). I however encourage readers familiar with the state of the art in PC platform security to read the TCPA specifications, read the TCPA's membership list, read the Hollings bill, and then ask themselves if they are aware of, or can locate somebody who is aware of, any other technical solution that enjoys a similar level of PC platform industry support, is anywhere as near to wide-spread production as TPM's, and is of sufficient integration into the platform to be able to form the platform basis for meeting the requirements of the Hollings bill. Would Anonymous perhaps like to take this question? --Lucky Green From eresrch at eskimo.com Sun Jun 23 19:34:55 2002 From: eresrch at eskimo.com (Mike Rosing) Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 19:34:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: <011401c21b0e$a645f590$206694d1@LUCKYVAIO> Message-ID: On Sun, 23 Jun 2002, Lucky Green wrote: > Anonymous writes: > > Lucky Green writes regarding Ross Anderson's paper at: > > Ross and Lucky should justify their claims to the community > > in general and to the members of the TCPA in particular. If > > you're going to make accusations, you are obliged to offer > > evidence. Is the TCPA really, as they claim, a secretive > > effort to get DRM hardware into consumer PCs? Or is it, as > > the documents on the web site claim, a general effort to > > improve the security in systems and to provide new > > capabilities for improving the trustworthiness of computing platforms? > > Anonymous raises a valid question. To hand Anonymous additional rope, I > will even assure the reader that when questioned directly, the members > of the TCPA will insist that their efforts in the context of TCPA are > concerned with increasing platform security in general and are not > targeted at providing a DRM solution. > > Unfortunately, and I apologize for having to disappoint the reader, I do > not feel at liberty to provide the proof Anonymous is requesting myself, > though perhaps Ross might. (I have no first-hand knowledge of what Ross > may or may not be able to provide). That makes the claim a might weak, at least in my perspective. > I however encourage readers familiar with the state of the art in PC > platform security to read the TCPA specifications, read the TCPA's > membership list, read the Hollings bill, and then ask themselves if they > are aware of, or can locate somebody who is aware of, any other > technical solution that enjoys a similar level of PC platform industry > support, is anywhere as near to wide-spread production as TPM's, and is > of sufficient integration into the platform to be able to form the > platform basis for meeting the requirements of the Hollings bill. Is the Hollings bill you refer to S.2048? In S.2048 they want to "plug the analog hole". It's far worse both econmicly and "big brother" wise. How are they going to deal with all the processors now running that don't have this "fritz" chip? Deny them access to data? Won't win over a whole lot of votes that way, pissing off every grandfather in the country. Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike From nobody at dizum.com Sun Jun 23 15:20:08 2002 From: nobody at dizum.com (Nomen Nescio) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 00:20:08 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Ross's TCPA paper Message-ID: <8a1a80b0806f70e6790099bf297a0b96@dizum.com> Lucky Green writes regarding Ross Anderson's paper at: http://www.ftp.cl.cam.ac.uk/ftp/users/rja14/toulouse.pdf > I must confess that after reading the paper I am quite relieved to > finally have solid confirmation that at least one other person has > realized (outside the authors and proponents of the bill) that the > Hollings bill, while failing to mention TCPA anywhere in the text of the > bill, was written with the specific technology provided by the TCPA in > mind for the purpose of mandating the inclusion of this technology in > all future general-purpose computing platforms, now that the technology > has been tested, is ready to ship, and the BIOS vendors are on side. It's an interesting claim, but there is only one small problem. Neither Ross Anderson nor Lucky Green offers any evidence that the TCPA (http://www.trustedcomputing.org) is being designed for the support of digital rights management (DRM) applications. In fact if you look at the documents on the TCPA web site you see much discussion of applications such as platform-based ecommerce (so that even if a user's keys get stolen they can't be used on another PC), securing corporate networks (assuring that each workstation is running an IT-approved configuration), detecting viruses, and enhancing the security of VPNs. DRM is not mentioned. Is the claim by Ross and Lucky that the TCPA is a fraud, secretly designed for the purpose of supporting DRM while using the applications above merely as a cover to hide their true purposes? If so, shouldn't we expect to see the media content companies as supporters of this effort? But the membership list at http://www.trustedcomputing.org/tcpaasp4/members.asp shows none of the usual suspects. Disney's not there. Sony's not there. No Viacom, no AOL/Time/Warner, no News Corp. The members are all technology companies, including crypto companies like RSA, Verisign and nCipher. Contrast this for example with the Brodcast Protection Discussion Group whose ongoing efforts are being monitored by the EFF at http://www.eff.org/IP/Video/HDTV/. There you do find the big media companies. That effort is plainly aimed at protecting information and supporting DRM, so it makes sense that the companies most interested in those goals are involved. But with the TCPA, the players are completely different. And unlike with the BPDG, the rationale being offered is not based on DRM but on improving the trustworthiness of software for many applications. Ross and Lucky should justify their claims to the community in general and to the members of the TCPA in particular. If you're going to make accusations, you are obliged to offer evidence. Is the TCPA really, as they claim, a secretive effort to get DRM hardware into consumer PCs? Or is it, as the documents on the web site claim, a general effort to improve the security in systems and to provide new capabilities for improving the trustworthiness of computing platforms? --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From rlmorgan at washington.edu Mon Jun 24 00:27:34 2002 From: rlmorgan at washington.edu (RL 'Bob' Morgan) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 00:27:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Secure mail relays [was:RE: DOJ proposes US data-rentention law. ] In-Reply-To: <007f01c219d5$ec9150b0$206694d1@LUCKYVAIO> Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Jun 2002, Lucky Green wrote: > I am limiting relaying on port 25 smtp to authorized users by using > Cyrus-SASL, which integrates cleanly with postfix + TLS as the MTA. > Since Outlook only provides the plaintext variant of SASL > authentication, my MTA is configured to not offer smtp AUTH as an option > until after the TLS connection has been established to prevent > eavesdroppers from capturing the relaying authentication password. We run the main MTA for my university this way (of course it will relay without authentication if the client source address is within the university IP ranges), using sendmail and cyrus-sasl. It's my impression that many US universities are starting to do this. We started it as a one-off MTA handling submission of mail for travelers, then realized that the regular MTA could just provide this service. It also does Kerberos authentication, which I use (though not many MUAs support it). > Since more and more misguided ISP's are flat out blocking outgoing > connections to port 25 from inside their network, I have postfix > listening at a higher port number in addition to port 25, just as many > hosts today are running sshd on several ports to help compensate for > similarly misguided corporate firewall policies. The obvious port is 587, the "submission" port (see RFC 2476), which in fact is the one that MUAs "should" use, rather than 25 (we support it, I'm submitting this mail using it, via my home ISP). Of course if it actually becomes popular those misguided ISPs will block it too ... - RL "Bob" --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Mon Jun 24 01:47:32 2002 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 01:47:32 -0700 Subject: Steven Levy buys Microsoft's bullshit hook, line, and sinker In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00a101c21b5b$cb595b40$0100a8c0@LUCKYVAIO> Bram wrote: > http://www.msnbc.com/news/770511.asp?cp1=1 > > Of course, the TCPA has nothing to do with security or > privacy, since those are OS-level things. All it can really > do is ensure you're running a particular OS. > > It's amazing the TCPA isn't raising all kinds of red flags at > the justice department already - it's the most flagrant > attempt to stifle competition I've ever seen. [Bram is correct, stifling competition is one of the many features TCPA will enable. In more ways than one. And for more players than just Microsoft]. Coincidentally, Steven Levy's article that Bram is citing also helps answer Mr. Anonymous's question with which he challenged Ross and myself earlier today. First, however, I must apologize to the reader for my earlier, now incorrect, statement that TCPA member companies would deny that DRM is an objective of the TCPA. I had been unaware that, as evidenced by the publication of the Newsweek article, the public phase of the TCPA effort had already begun. What a bizarre coincidence for this phase, after all those years the TCPA effort and its predecessors have been underway, (the design, and in fact the entire architecture, has morphed substantially over the years) to be kicked off the very day of my post. [Tim: do you recall when we had the discussion about the upcoming "encrypted op code chips" at a Cypherpunks meeting in a Stanford lecture hall? Was that 1995 or 1996? It cannot have been later; I know that I was still working for DigiCash at the time because I remember giving a talk on compact endorsement signatures at the same meeting]. >From Levy's article: "Palladium [Microsoft's TCPA-based technology - LG] is being offered to the studios and record labels as a way to distribute music and film with "digital rights management" (DRM). This could allow users to exercise "fair use" (like making personal copies of a CD) and publishers could at least start releasing works that cut a compromise between free and locked-down. But a more interesting possibility is that Palladium could help introduce DRM to business and just plain people. "It's a funny thing," says Bill Gates. "We came at this thinking about music, but then we realized that e-mail and documents were far more interesting domains."' Another paragraph of the Newsweek article has this to say: "In 1997, Peter Biddle, a Microsoft manager who used to run a paintball arena, was the company's liason to the DVD-drive world. Naturally, he began to think of ways to address Hollywood's fear of digital copying. He hooked up with [...] researchers Paul England and John Manferdelli, and they set up a skunkworks operation, stealing time from their regular jobs to pursue a preposterously ambitious idea-creating virtual vaults in Windows to protect information. They quickly understood that the problems of intellectual property were linked to problems of security and privacy. They also realized that if they wanted to foil hackers and intruders, at least part of the system had to be embedded in silicon, not software." Well, now that Bill Gates himself is being quoted stating that DRM was a driver behind the technology the TCPA is enabling (Microsoft is one of the companies that founded the TCPA and should be in a position to know), does Mr. Anonymous consider this sufficient "evidence that the TCPA is being designed for the support of digital rights management (DRM) applications"? Or does Anonymous continue to believe Ross and Lucky are making this stuff up out of whole cloth? To answer Anonymous's question as to whether the "the TCPA [is] really, as [Ross and Lucky] claim, a secretive effort to get DRM hardware into consumer PCs?", I am not sure I would exactly call this fact a secret at this point. (Though by no means are all cards already on the table). DRM is a significant objective of some of the TCPA's member companies, which includes Microsoft. There are of course other objectives. Some of which Ross published, some which I mentioned, some which Steven Levy has published (though he largely fell for the designated bait and missed the numerous hooks), some which Bram has realized, and some which have yet to be talked about. Some desirable, some questionable, and a lot of them downright scary. Sincerely, --Lucky Green --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From nobody at dizum.com Sun Jun 23 19:40:15 2002 From: nobody at dizum.com (Nomen Nescio) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 04:40:15 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Ross's TCPA paper Message-ID: <16c819b53f2eec3b28cf6df82aacf7b8@dizum.com> Lucky Green writes: > I however encourage readers familiar with the state of the art in PC > platform security to read the TCPA specifications, read the TCPA's > membership list, read the Hollings bill, and then ask themselves if they > are aware of, or can locate somebody who is aware of, any other > technical solution that enjoys a similar level of PC platform industry > support, is anywhere as near to wide-spread production as TPM's, and is > of sufficient integration into the platform to be able to form the > platform basis for meeting the requirements of the Hollings bill. > > Would Anonymous perhaps like to take this question? Gladly. One need only look at a recent cause celebre in the cypherpunk community to see what the Hollings bill intends to mandate. We were assured by the professional paranoids among the cypherpunks that there was a serious measure being promoted by the content companies, a new restriction which we were all going to have to deal with. Remember? They were going to limit all A/D converters. That's right, thanks to the Hollings bill your rectal thermometer will be upgraded so that you can't watch Snow White on it (not that it's likely to be anything like snow white after you're finished with it). Yes, Hollings is determined to plug your analog hole. You heard it here first, folks. And how can you doubt, when it comes from a group with such a balanced and accurate view of the world, and such a marvelous record for accurate predictions? Every cypherpunk knows that paranoid conspiracy theories are by far the most reliable way to interpret events. From cypherpunks at Algebra.COM Mon Jun 24 03:09:47 2002 From: cypherpunks at Algebra.COM (cypherpunks at Algebra.COM) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 05:09:47 -0500 Subject: You're Paying Too Much Message-ID: <03D56S110E6.19N75A0SM45.cypherpunks@algebra.com> We will help you get the mortgage loan you want! Only takes 2 minutes to fill out our form. http://cid0189.corner44.com/index.php Whether a new home loan is what you seek or to refinance your current home loan at a lower interest rate and payment, we can help! Mortgage rates haven't been this low in the last 12 months, take action now! Refinance your home with us and include all of those pesky credit card bills or use the extra cash for that pool you've always wanted... Where others says NO, we say YES!!! Even if you have been turned down elsewhere, we can help! Easy terms! Our mortgage referral service combines the highest quality loans with most economical rates and the easiest qualification! Click Here to fill out our form. http://cid0189.corner44.com/index.php -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2780 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Ross.Anderson at cl.cam.ac.uk Sun Jun 23 21:49:42 2002 From: Ross.Anderson at cl.cam.ac.uk (Ross Anderson) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 05:49:42 +0100 Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: Message from Nomen Nescio of "Mon, 24 Jun 2002 00:20:08 +0200." <8a1a80b0806f70e6790099bf297a0b96@dizum.com> Message-ID: > It's an interesting claim, but there is only one small problem. > Neither Ross Anderson nor Lucky Green offers any evidence that the TCPA > (http://www.trustedcomputing.org) is being designed for the support of > digital rights management (DRM) applications. Microsoft admits it: http://www.msnbc.com/news/770511.asp Intel admitted it to me to. They said that the reason for TCPA was that their company makes most of its money from the PC microprocessor; they have most of the market; so to grow the company they need to grow the overall market for PCs; that means making sure the PC is the hub of the future home network; and if entertainment's the killer app, and DRM is the key technology for entertainment, then the PC must do DRM. Now here's another aspect of TCPA. You can use it to defeat the GPL. During my investigations into TCPA, I learned that HP has started a development program to produce a TCPA-compliant version of GNU/linux. I couldn't figure out how they planned to make money out of this. On Thursday, at the Open Source Software Economics conference, I figured out how they might. Making a TCPA-compliant version of GNU/linux (or Apache, or whatever) will mean tidying up the code and removing whatever features conflict with the TCPA security policy. The company will then submit the pruned code to an evaluator, together with a mass of documentation for the work that's been done, including a whole lot of analyses showing, for example, that you can't get root by a buffer overflow. The business model, I believe, is this. HP will not dispute that the resulting `pruned code' is covered by the GPL. You will be able to download it, compile it, check it against the binary, and do what you like with it. However, to make it into TCPA-linux, to run it on a TCPA-enabled machine in privileged mode, you need more than the code. You need a valid signature on the binary, plus a cert to use the TCPA PKI. That will cost you money (if not at first, then eventually). Anyone will be free to make modifications to the pruned code, but in the absence of a signature the resulting O/S won't enable users to access TCPA features. It will of course be open to competitors to try to re-do the evaluation effort for enhanced versions of the pruned code, but that will cost money; six figures at least. There will likely be little motive for commercial competitors to do it, as HP will have the first mover advantages and will be able to undercut them on price. There will also be little incentive for philanthropists to do it, as the resulting product would not really be a GPL version of a TCPA operating system, but a proprietary operating system that the philanthropist could give away free. (There are still issues about who would pay for use of the PKI that hands out user certs.) The need to go through evaluation with each change is completely incompatible with the business model of free and open source software. People believed that the GPL made it impossible for a company to come along and steal code that was the result of community effort. That may have been the case so long as the processor was open, and anyone could access supervisor mode. But TCPA changes that completely. Once the majority of PCs on the market are TCPA-enabled, the GPL won't work as intended any more. There has never been anything to stop people selling complementary products and services to GPL'ed code; once the functioning of these products can be tied to a signature on the binary, the model breaks. Can anyone from HP comment on whether this is actually their plan? Ross From eresrch at eskimo.com Mon Jun 24 06:41:44 2002 From: eresrch at eskimo.com (Mike Rosing) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 06:41:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 12:53:42 -0700 > From: Paul Harrison > Subject: Re: Ross's TCPA paper > I would think a TCP _with_ ownership of the TPM would be every paranoid > cypherpunk's wet dream. A box which would tell you if it had been tampered > with either in hardware or software? Great. Someone else's TCP is more > like a rental car: you want the rental company to be completely responsible > for the safety of the vehicle. This is the economic achilles heal of using > TCPA for DRM. Who is going to take financial responsibility for the proper > operation of the platform? It can work for a set top box, but it won't fly > for a general purpose computer. Exactly my point - economicly it can't work for the "nightmare" scenario. The whole DRM concept is seriously flawed, and the fact it's being pushed by a guy who used to run a paint-ball arena is really no supprise. There's a large group of academics working on DRM concepts for access to university facilities, including libraries and computers. They use secure platforms, but they still have to worry about who gets physical access to the platform. And I also don't think "conspiricy" is the right term. The article Lucky quoted from indicated that use of the trusted platform for DRM was an afterthought, and that's much more believeable. A bunch of sharks looking for money all swim around the same target. It has to do with where the money is, not any collusion between the players. S.2048 is not likely to see the light of day. The automotive industry is bigger than the entertainment industry, and they have more sway in washington when it comes to how much some bill is going to cost them. S.2048 makes cars way too expensive, and when union workers find out that a) they will have fewer jobs and b) they won't be able to watch videos when they get home, the shit will hit the fan big time. Definitly write a letter to your congress critter to let them know the whole thing is stupid. But don't call it a conspiricy, that gives the morons thinking this whole thing up a bit too much intellect. Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike From mv at cdc.gov Mon Jun 24 06:51:43 2002 From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret)) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 06:51:43 -0700 Subject: sins of the fathers (brothers, sisters, etc) Message-ID: <3D1723EF.D0F1C3A9@cdc.gov> On Israel's decision to deport families of martyrs: A Palestinian legislator, Salah Tamari, called deporting families "an illegal, unlawful and inhuman measure. Why should somebody be accountable for someone elses actions? http://www.news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=685972002 Someone needs to clue Tamari into the US court-approved practices in welfare cages: families are tossed for the indiscretions of familymembers, if the indiscretions involve pharmaceuticals. Pharms, nitrates, whatever. But then, the US is becoming Israel, why not a bit of the reverse? ----- And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air, Gave proof thro' the night that Osama was still there. From udhay at pobox.com Sun Jun 23 19:28:45 2002 From: udhay at pobox.com (Udhay Shankar N) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 07:58:45 +0530 Subject: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Book Review: Peter Wayner's "Translucent Databases" Message-ID: Bob, I forwarded your review of Wayner's book to, among others, David Brin. He sent this reply, asking me to pass it on. Seems to have touched a nerve! Udhay >Uday, thanks for sharing this. > >Could you submit the following reply? > >--------------- > >It is particularly dishonest of a so-called reviewer not only to >misinterpret and misconvey another person's position, but to abuse >quotation marks in the way Robert Hettinga has done in his review of >Translucent Databases By Peter Wayner. Openly and publicly, I defy >Hettinga to find any place where I used the word "trust" in the fashion or >meaning he attributes to me. > >In fact, my argument is diametrically opposite to the one that he portrays >as mine. For him to say that 'Brin seems to want, "trust" of state >force-monopolists... their lawyers and apparatchiks." demonstrates either >profound laziness - having never read a word I wrote - or else deliberate >calumny. In either event, I now openly hold him accountable by calling it >a damnable lie. This is not a person to be trusted or listened-to by >people who value credibility. > >Without intending-to, he laid bare one of the 'false dichotomies" that >trap even bright people into either-or - or zero-sum - kinds of >thinking. For example, across the political spectrum, a "Strong Privacy" >movement claims that liberty and personal privacy are best defended by >anonymity and encryption, or else by ornate laws restricting what people >may know. This approach may seem appealing, but there are no historical >examples of it ever having worked. > >INdeed, those mired in these two approaches seem unable to see outside the >dichotomy. Hettinga thinks that, because I am skeptical of the right >wing's passion for cowboy anonymity, that I am therefore automatically an >advocate of the left wing's prescription of "privacy through state >coercive information management'. Baloney. A plague on both houses of >people who seem obsessed with policing what other people are allowed to know. > >Strong Privacy advocates bears a severe burden of proof when they claim >that a world of secrets will protect freedom... even privacy... better >than what has worked for us so far - general openness. > >Indeed, it's a burden of proof that can sometimes be met! Certainly there >are circumstances when/where secrecy is the only recourse... in concealing >the location of shelters for battered wives, for instance, or in fiercely >defending psychiatric records. These examples stand at one end of a >sliding scale whose principal measure is the amount of harm that a piece >of information might plausibly do, if released in an unfair manner. At >the other end of the scale, new technologies seem to make it likely that >we'll just have to get used to changes in our definition of privacy. What >salad dressing you use may be as widely known as what color sweater you >wear on the street... and just as harmlessly boring. > >The important thing to remember is that anyone who claims a right to keep >something secret is also claiming a right to deny knowledge to >others. There is an inherent conflict! Some kind of criterion must be >used to adjudicate this tradeoff and most sensible people seem to agree >that this criterion should be real or plausible harm... not simply whether >or not somebody likes to keep personal data secret. > > >The modern debate over information, and who controls it, must begin with a >paradox. > >(1) Each of us understands that knowledge can be power. We want to know as >much as possible about people or groups we see as threatening... and we >want our opponents to know little about us. Each of us would prescribe >armor for "the good guys" and nakedness for our worst foes. > >(2) Criticism is the best antidote to error. Yet most people, especially >the mighty, try to avoid it. Leaders of past civilizations evaded >criticism by crushing free speech and public access to information. This >sometimes helped them stay in power... but it also generally resulted in >horrific blunders in statecraft. > >3) Ours may be the first civilization to systematically avoid this cycle, >whose roots lie in human nature. We have learned that few people are >mature enough to hold themselves accountable. But in an open society where >criticism flows, adversaries eagerly pounce on each others' errors. We do >each other the favor of reciprocal criticism (though it seldom personally >feels like a favor!) > > >Four great social innovations foster our unprecedented wealth and freedom: >science, justice, democracy & free markets. Each of these "accountability >arenas" functions best when all players get fair access to information. >But cheating is always a problem because of (1) and (2) above. It's a >paradox, all right. > >While new surveillance and data technologies pose vexing challenges, we >may be wise to pause and recall what worked for us so far. Reciprocal >accountability - a widely shared power to shine light, even on the mighty >- is the unsung marvel of our age, empowering even eccentrics and >minorities to enforce their own freedom. Shall we scrap civilization's >best tool - light - in favor of a fad of secrecy? > >Across the political spectrum, a "Strong Privacy" movement claims that >liberty and personal privacy are best defended by anonymity and >encryption, or else by ornate laws restricting what people may know. This >approach may seem appealing, but there are no historical examples of it >ever having worked. > > >Here are a few themes discussed in The Transparent Society: > >* Cameras and surveillance devices swarm our technological world, >multiplying and getting harder to spot each day. A "Moore's Law of >Cameras" shows them halving in size, doubling in acuity and movement >capability and sheer numbers, every year or so. Passing laws won't stop >them. Robert Heinlein said: "Privacy laws only make the bugs smaller... >and limit their use to some elite." > >But there may be another solution. > >* Knowledge is the ultimate drug, and forbidden knowledge is craved above >all. Credit companies, banned from holding bankruptcy records beyond 7 >years, now ship the taboo information to offshore 'data havens.' Shall we >create an underground economy in contraband information, as we have done >with drugs? Who will benefit? > >* One wing of the Strong Privacy crusade wants Euro-style privacy >commissions with a myriad laws and clerks to police what may be known by >doctors, corporations, and individuals. Dataflow controls may indeed be >needed at times! But this solution should be a last resort, not the first >place we turn. > >* Another wing of wing of Strong Privacy likes libertarian techno-fixes -- >empowering individuals with encrypted cybernetic anonymity. But scientific >and social flaws may render these panaceas no more effective than 'ghost >shirts'. Even if they can be made to work, it may just empower a new >elite - those who best know-how to use the new masks and armor. > >* Is government the chief enemy of freedom? That authority center does >merit close scrutiny... which we've been applying lately with >unprecedented ardor. Meanwhile other citizens worry about different power >groups -- aristocracies, corporations, criminal gangs, and technological >elites. Should 'suspicion of authority' apply in all directions? Can >anyone justifiably claim exemption from accountability? > >* Privacy and personal safety are better safeguarded by catching peeping >toms. Freedom thrives when we turn 'henchmen' into >whistle-blowers. Elites will always have some advantages, but we're all >better protected by knowing than by forbidding others to know. (It is far >easier to verify that you know something, than to verify that someone else >is ignorant.) > >* Why do our "accountability arenas" work so well? Science, justice, >democracy & free markets are direct products of openness... most of the >people knowing most of what's going on, most of the time. Even individual >eccentricity seems to flourish best in light. Closed societies have >always been more conformist than open ones! > > >Many of these points may seem counter-intuitive... but so is our entire >rambunctious, argumentative, tolerant, eccentric, in-your-face culture! >The Transparent Society explores underlying issues, from the technological >(cameras, databases and the science of encryption) to the startling (why >all our films preach suspicion of authority), helping foster a new >appreciation of our unique civilization. > >Defying the temptations of secrecy, we may see a culture like no other, >filled with boisterous amateurs and individuals whose hunger for >betterment will propel the next century. This will happen if we stick to a >formula that already works... most of the people knowing most of what's >going on, most of the time. > > >==================================================================== > > >"New tech is handing society tough decisions to make anew about old issues >of privacy and accountability. In opting for omni-directional openness, >David Brin takes an unorthodox position, arguing knowledgeably and with >exceptionally balanced perspective." > - Stewart Brand, Director, Global Business Network > >"As David Brin details the inevitability of ubiquitous surveillance, your >instinct, as an individual facing this one-way mirror, is to hope that he >is wrong about the facts. As you follow his argument for two-way social >transparency, you realize your only hope is that he is right." > - George B. Dyson, author, Darwin Among the Machines > >"Where, in the information age, do we draw the line between privacy and >openness? David Brin's answer is illuminated by his insistence that >criticism is as vital to eliminating our errors as the T-cells of our >immune system are to maintaining our health. . . . Brin's informed and >lucid advocacy of fresh air is very welcome." > - Arthur Kantrowitz, Professor of Engineering, Dartmouth College > >"David Brin is one of the few people thinking and writing about the social >problems we are going to face in the near future as the result of new >electronic media. The Transparent Society raises the questions we need to >ask now, before the universal surveillance infrastructure is in place. Be >prepared to have your assumptions challenged." > - Howard Rheingold, author, The Virtual Community > >"The Transparent Society reframes the debate on what our world can >become-and the choices aren't what they may seem." > - K. Eric Drexler, author, Engines of Creation > >"David Brin's nonfiction marvel, The Transparent Society, is what Lewis >Mumford or Thorstein Veblen might write, could they contemplate our >increasingly webbed world and its prospects for social change. It's what >Benjamin Franklin or Thomas Jefferson would be writing these days about >technology and democracy. Brin's book is full of imaginative, far-sighted >concern for how fluid information is going to transform our civil society. >Knowledge only occasionally leads to wisdom, but here we see some, and the >book is so wonderfully entertaining that it's bound to be widely read." > - William H. Calvin, neurophysiologist and author of How Brains > Think. > > > For more > information, see: http://www.davidbrin.com/ > -- ((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com)) God is silent. Now if we can only get Man to shut up. --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Mon Jun 24 05:15:29 2002 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 08:15:29 -0400 Subject: Ross's TCPA paper Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text From InsightontheNews at broadbandpublisher.com Mon Jun 24 05:26:22 2002 From: InsightontheNews at broadbandpublisher.com (Insight on the News) Date: 24 Jun 2002 08:26:22 -0400 Subject: Insight on the News Email Edition Message-ID: <200206240826765.SM00688@broadbandpublisher.com> INSIGHT NEWS ALERT! A new issue of Insight on the News is now online http://www.insightmag.com ............................................... Folks, we占퐎e back off the presses in a big way this week! John Berlau占퐏 expose of the next target for the big government nannies will just amaze you (Hint: Get ready to sue Wendy占퐏) http://www.insightmag.com/news/256297.html. And Ken Timmerman delivers the inside story on the coming explosion between China and Taiwan---with the U.S. in the middle http://www.insightmag.com/news/256298.html. Check 占폾m out---and a lot more---at Insight Online. Until next time, I remain your newsman in the Bunker. ............................................... BIG FOOD FIGHT John Berlau reveals that when Big Tobacco was taken down by a rash of lawsuits, consumers were assured that other 'bad' products wouldn't be targeted. But the fast-food industry appears to be next. http://www.insightmag.com/news/256297.html ............................................... IS RUMSFELD SITTING ON A CHINESE POWDER KEG? In an Insight exclusive, Ken Timmerman reports that as Beijing builds forces for attacks against Taiwan, the Pentagon sends Peter Rodman to talk sense to the hard-line Maoists of the People's Liberation Army. http://www.insightmag.com/news/256298.html ............................................... THEY占폲E GOT YOUR (SOCIAL SECURITY) NUMBER Sheila Cherry tells how the Social Security number has become the national identification code 占� one fraught with security loopholes and serious implications for privacy rights. http://www.insightmag.com/news/256299.html ======================================== Don't Gamble with your Family's Health! Click here for Affordable Health Insurance NOW! http://etools.ncol.com/a/jgroup/bg_uici_wwwinsightmagcom_8.html ======================================== RUNNING AWAY FROM CLINTON Hans Nichols tells us that Clinton-administration alumni vying for public office now have to decide whether to embrace or run away from their past. http://www.insightmag.com/news/256300.html ............................................... DEBATE HEALTH CARE AND CALL ME ON ELECTION DAY Jennifer Hickey writes that with less than 140 days remaining before Election Day 2002, congressional Republicans and Democrats pushed legislation and pulled no punches in trying to control the small acre of land that separates the two parties in Congress. http://www.insightmag.com/news/256337.html ............................................... U.S. KIDS HELD CAPTIVE IN SAUDI ARABIA Tim Maier reveals that mothers plead for help from the U.S. State Department, which handles Saudi Arabia with kid gloves instead of securing the release of almost 100 kidnapped children. http://www.insightmag.com/news/256315.html ======================================== INSIGHT SUBSCRIPTION SPECIAL! Save $50.83 (Off Our Newsstand Price) https://www.collegepublisher.com/insightsub/subform1.cfm ======================================== You have received this newsletter because you have a user name and password at Insight on the News. To unsubscribe from this newsletter, visit "http://www.insightmag.com/main.cfm?include=unsubscribe". You may also log into Insight on the News and edit your account preferences on the Web. If you have forgotten or don't know your user name and password, it will be emailed to you after visiting the following link: http://www.insightmag.com/main.cfm?include=emailPassword&serialNumber=16oai891z5&email=cypherpunks at ssz.com From rah at shipwright.com Mon Jun 24 05:33:36 2002 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 08:33:36 -0400 Subject: The Revolution Will Be All Business Message-ID: http://www.anti-state.com/kennedy/kennedy4.html The Revolution Will Be All Business by John T Kennedy Many market anarchists continue to embrace the paradigm of the political movement. They believe that the society they favor can only come about when enough people have been persuaded of the benefits or moral correctness of such a society. Thus they seek to build a movement. I have good news and bad news. The bad news is that there is no market anarchist movement and there is never going to be a market anarchist movement. Better mass marketing of market anarchist principles will not advance market anarchism. Rational evangelism will not convert the masses, or even a critical mass of individuals, to market anarchism. The entire project of building a movement is misguided and of no use to market anarchists. The impulse to build a movement is collectivist in nature; it is rooted in an egalitarian and even democratic view of society. The idea is that when enough people come to see what is truly in their common interest, they will voluntarily cooperate to secure that common interest. It's not terribly surprising that many would have difficulty escaping this mindset, it's not far from the democratic ideals set forth by the Founding Fathers, ideals that we are taught to revere from an early age. But these democratic ideals are not appropriate to market anarchism and they will not advance it. Did I say there was good news? The good news is that a movement is unnecessary. It's difficult to get this idea across to those still stuck with the paradigm of the political movement. They tend to not even hear it. In A Porcupine's Worth Is His Price I wrote: "Some advocates of anarcho-capitalism think that to achieve liberty from government we need to convince a majority or some critical number of people that anarcho-capitalist society will be better for them than governed society. The porcupine teaches a different lesson - that men will be free from government whenever they become too expensive to govern." Bob Murphy saw in this passage only a "compulsive need", on my part, "to engage in product differentiation". He asks "How are these two statements different? You're claiming that there isn't some critical number of people necessary to become free?" I was trying to say plainly that it is not necessary to persuade a critical number of people of the merits of market anarchism in order for people to become too expensive to govern. The question, along with other evidence, persuades me that the message is not being heard. I'm accused of being a fatalist because I say there will be no movement. I'm accused of being a cynic because I say that rational evangelism won't work. But I'm neither a fatalist nor a cynic. I'm an optimist. How can market anarchism come about without a movement? This is the essential question that is asked again and again. But the question is almost always asked rhetorically, the person asking is not looking for an answer because he's already decided that none is possible. So when an answer is offered that answer tends not to be heard, or else it is quickly forgotten. I asked the same question, looking for answers. And there are answers. That's the good news. There is a model of voluntary collective action appropriate to market anarchism. It is business. A business is not held together by a rational argument persuading individuals to pursue a common goal; a business must primarily appeal directly to the self-interest of employees and customers. A successful business must deliver value to both employees and customers on an ongoing basis. A business does not require a critical number of participants; in some cases very small groups of individuals can produce dramatic results within the framework of a business. Consider Assassination Politics. I do not advocate AP because I do not think it would operate as its creator intends; I offer it only as an example of an approach to advancing market anarchism. If AP worked as intended people would become too expensive to govern, since those who sought to govern could expect to pay with their lives. There would be no need to persuade people to use AP; they would use it out of self-interest. In theory, a small team, perhaps even an individual, could implement the guts of AP. The full implementation of it would require a business, but certainly not a huge business. The project would be quite lucrative, which is why certain individuals would be willing to attempt it. And this business would change the world, assuming that AP worked as advertised. Look Ma: No movement. AP is not the answer, but it is the right kind of answer. It's a business. What kind of businesses can advance market anarchism? Businesses which make people more expensive to govern. Businesses which offer their customers the means to protect their property and their persons from government. One of the highest leverage possibilities is a business that offers its customers the means to shield their income from taxation. Taxes become voluntary to the extent that individuals can avoid them, and when taxes become sufficiently voluntary governments must fail. What is the incentive for businesses to offer such services? Such businesses would be going after a piece of the same massive revenue stream that governments now control, the financial rewards would be immense. I don't expect one business to step forward with a turnkey solution for individual freedom. Rather I expect lots of businesses to attempt to carve out their own share of that revenue stream, each of them making people a little bit more expensive to govern. The cumulative effect will be the same. If you can provide people with the means to protect their property and their persons from government you won't need to waste any breath persuading them to do so. They will overwhelmingly do so out of self-interest, regardless of their political views. Government can be seen as an attempt to solve public goods problems by punishing those who defect from cooperating with the collective. The problem with this solution is that we become prisoners of government. Our Prisoner's Dilemma is that we'd all be better off if we collectively defected from government, but individually we can incur severe penalties for defection. The solution to the dilemma is to introduce agencies which can reap tremendous rewards for protecting individuals from the penalties government can inflict, businesses, which can reap tremendous rewards for enabling their clients to defect from government without penalty. Worry about marketing market anarchy when you have a viable business plan. Forget movements. The business of market anarchy is business. June 19, 2002 discuss this article in the forum! Can you help us out? Click here to see why you should support anti-state.com. with PayPal John T. Kennedy is a software engineer living in Connecticut. He is the editor of No Treason and has written for Strike the Root. John is overbooked and thoroughly spoken for. back to anti-state.com -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From iin at enetpromotions.com Mon Jun 24 06:34:33 2002 From: iin at enetpromotions.com (Investor Insights) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 08:34:33 -0500 Subject: FREE Consultation with an American Express Advisor Message-ID: <20020522-983745@b01.enetpromotions.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 6475 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tcmay at got.net Mon Jun 24 08:47:33 2002 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 08:47:33 -0700 Subject: Monkeywrenching DRM In-Reply-To: <00a101c21b5b$cb595b40$0100a8c0@LUCKYVAIO> Message-ID: On Monday, June 24, 2002, at 01:47 AM, Lucky Green wrote: > > [Tim: do you recall when we had the discussion about the upcoming > "encrypted op code chips" at a Cypherpunks meeting in a Stanford lecture > hall? Was that 1995 or 1996? It cannot have been later; I know that I > was still working for DigiCash at the time because I remember giving a > talk on compact endorsement signatures at the same meeting]. Around that time. Someone (Markoff?) was reporting that Intel was devoting a few percent of its transistors in an upcoming CPU to op code encrypting. I remember pointing out that Intel had previously released, in the early 80s, a "KeyPROM," which was an EPROM with encryption so that the internal state could not easily be read. The ostensible market was for arcade game makers, who were heavy consumers of EPROMs at the time and who wanted ways to not have their games copied by competitors. (The product flopped. Left as an exercise is to think about how pointless it is to try to make a tamper-proof chip, especially without any of the expensive countermeasures being possible. Anyone who can make the chip wiggle with a logic analyzer and o-scope could learn a lot. We used our Dynamic Fault Imager to image internal microcode states, thus bypassing the crypto junk.) Back to the rumor. The supposed encrypted CPU has not yet appeared. One theory, one that I find plausible, is that Intel got freaked out by the firestorm of derision and protest that met its attempt (around the same time) to introduce processor/user ID numbers which companies like Microsoft could use. (As it turns out, there's enough readable state in a PC, with various configurations of memory, drives, etc., that Microsoft can do a crude registration system which makes it difficult for users to run a product on N different machines. The Intel ID system was anticipated to make this _much_ more robust than simply counting drives and slots and attempting to map to one such configuration...which has the headaches of requiring customers to re-register, if they are allowed to, when they swap out drives or move cards around.) Anyway, a major reason Intel got freaked is that AMD, a competitor of course, announced with much publicity that they would NOT, repeat NOT, include the processor ID feature! As an Intel shareholder of many years, I'm not happy that AMD is as strong a competitor as it is (which isn't very, to be honest). But in other obvious ways I am happy to see them out there, keeping Intel from implementing such schemes. This is the key, no pun intended. Any single vendor, like Intel, who imposes such a scheme will face harsh criticism from the rabble like us. We will write essays, we will monkeywrench their boxes with "Big Brother Inside" stickers, we will laugh at their failures, we will be energized to find hacks to defeat them. So any effort to put "DRM" into hardware will have to be a mandated, directed, antitrust-exempted procedure. (Aside: And possibly unpatented. Rambus is now getting smacked around by the courts for participating in JEDEC memory chip standards committees without disclosing their patent interests. A standard _can_ involve patents, pace Firewire and USB, but the issues get complicated. Something to keep your eye on, as a wedge for attack.) If one vendor doesn't put the DRM in, he has bragging rights a la AMD with Intel's processor ID scheme. For a DRM scheme to have any hope of succeeding, it must happen with all vendors of VCRs or PCs or whatever. And since companies are not allowed (in the U.S. and most statist countries) to meet secretly or even quasi-secretly to plan features, the DRM planning must be done either publically under a guise of "industry standards." Or exempted by the law, possibly a secret ruling (e.g., a letter from the AG exempting AMD, Intel, Nvidia, and VIA from antitrust laws for the purposes of implementing DRM). In summary: -- expect more such attempts -- use laughter, derision, and slogans to monkeywrench the public perception (I talked to a person from Intel at this year's CFP...got the confirmation that the firestorm over the chip ID scheme had scared Intel badly and that there was little support within Intel for repeating the mistake...could be why senior Intel managers have testified in Congress against mandated DRM schemes...cf. testimony of Les Vadasz, IIRC.) > --Tim May ""Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined." --Patrick Henry From ptrei at rsasecurity.com Mon Jun 24 06:56:54 2002 From: ptrei at rsasecurity.com (Trei, Peter) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 09:56:54 -0400 Subject: DOJ proposes US data-rentention law. Message-ID: I tried sending this last week, but it did not seem to go through: Two points: 1. According to Poulson, the DOJ proposal never discussed just what would be logged. Poulson compared it to the European Big Brother legislation, which required storage to Web browsing histories and email header data (NOT email body text or IP traffic). 2. After I posted the same info to /. http://slashdot.org/articles/02/06/19/1724216.shtml?tid=103 (I'm the 'Anonymous Coward' in this case), Kevin updated his article. The new version may be found at: http://online.securityfocus.com/news/489 The relevant portions read: - start quote - U.S. Denies Data Retention Plans The Justice Department disputes claims that Internet service providers could be forced to spy on their customers as part of the U.S. strategy for securing cyberspace. By Kevin Poulsen, Jun 19 2002 12:24PM [...] But a Justice Department source said Wednesday that data retention is mentioned in the strategy only as an industry concern -- ISPs and telecom companies oppose the costly idea -- and does not reflect any plan by the department or the White House to push for a U.S. law. [...] - end quote - Peter Trei From derek at ihtfp.com Mon Jun 24 07:34:52 2002 From: derek at ihtfp.com (Derek Atkins) Date: 24 Jun 2002 10:34:52 -0400 Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: <011401c21b0e$a645f590$206694d1@LUCKYVAIO> References: <011401c21b0e$a645f590$206694d1@LUCKYVAIO> Message-ID: I, for one, can vouch for the fact that TCPA could absolutely be applied to a DRM application. In a previous life I actually designed a DRM system (the company has since gone under). In our research and development in '96-98, we decided that you need at least some trusted hardware at the client to perform any DRM, but if you _did_ have some _minimal_ trusted hardware, that would provide a large hook to a fairly secure DRM system. Check the archives of, IIRC, coderpunks... I started a thread entitled The Black Box Problem. The issue is that in a DRM system you (the content provider) wants to verify the operation of the client, even though the client is not under your control. We developed an online interactive protocol with a sandbox environment to protect content, but it would certainly be possible for someone to crack it. Our threat model was that we didn't want people to be able to use a hacked client against our distributation system. We discovered that if we had some trusted hardware that had a few key functions (I don't recall the few key functions offhand, but it was more than just encrypt and decrypt) we could increase the effectiveness of the DRM system astoundingly. We thought about using cryptodongles, but the Black Box problem still applies. The trusted hardware must be a core piece of the client machine for this to work. Like everything else in the technical world, TPCA is a tool.. It is neither good nor bad; that distinction comes in how us humans apply the technology. -derek "Lucky Green" writes: > Anonymous writes: > > Lucky Green writes regarding Ross Anderson's paper at: > > Ross and Lucky should justify their claims to the community > > in general and to the members of the TCPA in particular. If > > you're going to make accusations, you are obliged to offer > > evidence. Is the TCPA really, as they claim, a secretive > > effort to get DRM hardware into consumer PCs? Or is it, as > > the documents on the web site claim, a general effort to > > improve the security in systems and to provide new > > capabilities for improving the trustworthiness of computing platforms? > > Anonymous raises a valid question. To hand Anonymous additional rope, I > will even assure the reader that when questioned directly, the members > of the TCPA will insist that their efforts in the context of TCPA are > concerned with increasing platform security in general and are not > targeted at providing a DRM solution. > > Unfortunately, and I apologize for having to disappoint the reader, I do > not feel at liberty to provide the proof Anonymous is requesting myself, > though perhaps Ross might. (I have no first-hand knowledge of what Ross > may or may not be able to provide). > > I however encourage readers familiar with the state of the art in PC > platform security to read the TCPA specifications, read the TCPA's > membership list, read the Hollings bill, and then ask themselves if they > are aware of, or can locate somebody who is aware of, any other > technical solution that enjoys a similar level of PC platform industry > support, is anywhere as near to wide-spread production as TPM's, and is > of sufficient integration into the platform to be able to form the > platform basis for meeting the requirements of the Hollings bill. > > Would Anonymous perhaps like to take this question? > > --Lucky Green > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > The Cryptography Mailing List > Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com -- Derek Atkins Computer and Internet Security Consultant derek at ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com From habs at panix.com Mon Jun 24 07:55:27 2002 From: habs at panix.com (Harry Hawk) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 10:55:27 -0400 Subject: Ross's TCPA paper References: <011401c21b0e$a645f590$206694d1@LUCKYVAIO> Message-ID: <3D1732DF.A7AD1167@panix.com> It seems clear at least if DRM is an application than DRM applications would benefit from the "increased trust" and architecturally that such "trust" would be needed to enforce/ensure some/all of the requirements of the Hollings bill. hawk Lucky Green wrote: > .... other > technical solution that enjoys a similar level of PC platform industry > support, is anywhere as near to wide-spread production as TPM's, and is > of sufficient integration into the platform to be able to form the > platform basis for meeting the requirements of the Hollings bill. > > Would Anonymous perhaps like to take this question? --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From adam at zeroknowledge.com Mon Jun 24 08:29:15 2002 From: adam at zeroknowledge.com (Adam Shostack) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 11:29:15 -0400 Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020624152915.GA2622@zeroknowledge.com> On Mon, Jun 24, 2002 at 08:15:29AM -0400, R. A. Hettinga wrote: > Status: U > Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 12:53:42 -0700 > From: Paul Harrison > Subject: Re: Ross's TCPA paper > To: "R. A. Hettinga" > The > important question is not whether trusted platforms are a good idea, but > who will own them. Purchasing a TCP without the keys to the TPM is like > buying property without doing a title search. Of course it is possible to > _rent_ property from a title holder, and in some cases this is desirable. > > I would think a TCP _with_ ownership of the TPM would be every paranoid > cypherpunk's wet dream. A box which would tell you if it had been tampered > with either in hardware or software? Great. Someone else's TCP is more > like a rental car: you want the rental company to be completely responsible > for the safety of the vehicle. This is the economic achilles heal of using > TCPA for DRM. Who is going to take financial responsibility for the proper > operation of the platform? It can work for a set top box, but it won't fly > for a general purpose computer. In general, I'm very fond of this sort of ownership analysis. If I have a TCPA box running my software, and thinking that its mine, how do I know there isn't one more layer? Leave it off, and my analysis is simpler. I suspect that verifying ownership of the TPM will be like verifying ownership of property in modern Russia: There may be a title that looks clean. But what does the mafia think? What about the security services? There may even be someone with a pre-Bolshevik title floating around. Or a forgery. Hard to tell. It's annoying to have one's transaction costs pushed up that high. I can get very high quality baseline software today. What I need for my cypherpunk wet dreams is ecash, and a nice anonymizing network. What I also need is that the general purpose computing environment stay free of control points, in Lessig sense. Adam From ljb at merit.edu Mon Jun 24 09:14:38 2002 From: ljb at merit.edu (Larry J. Blunk) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 12:14:38 -0400 Subject: Ross TCPA paper Message-ID: <20020624161438.9861B5DE2D@segue.merit.edu> For those who question the use of the TCPA spec as part of a DRM system, I refer you to the following article where the author interviewed Jim Ward of IBM (one of the authors of the TCPA spec) -- http://www.101com.com/solutions/security/article.asp?ArticleID=3266 In particular, note the following text: "The TCPA specifications center on two main areas: trusted reporting and public key infrastructure (PKI). The TCPA reporting guidelines create profiles of a machine's security settings as the machine boots. Ward says content providers such as Bloomberg or Hoover's may take advantage of this feature to ensure users do not redistribute content." And then there is the DRMOS patent granted to Paul England, et al. of Microsoft -- http://cryptome.org/ms-drm-os.htm. Mr. England is also one of the authors of the TCPA specification. Note the section describing the interaction of the DRMOS with the CPU and the cryptographic/certificate requirements of the CPU. This is precisely how the TCPA spec works. The TCPA website avoids mentioning the DRM applications of the spec precisely because it is so controversial. However, it's no big secret that this is clearly one of the intended uses of the spec. ------ Larry J. Blunk Merit Network, Inc. Ann Arbor, Michigan --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From sonicmailuo7lbK at howamazing.com Mon Jun 24 10:24:56 2002 From: sonicmailuo7lbK at howamazing.com (sonicmailuo7lbK at howamazing.com) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 12:24:56 -0500 Subject: Your Ship Just Came IN!!! adv J3QUnUmmb Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2518 bytes Desc: not available URL: From eresrch at eskimo.com Mon Jun 24 13:06:20 2002 From: eresrch at eskimo.com (Mike Rosing) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 13:06:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: <928c41e66854fd5d093509cdcdbddc99@remailer.privacy.at> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, Anonymous wrote: > The amazing thing about this discussion is that there are two pieces > of conventional wisdom which people in the cypherpunk/EFF/"freedom" > communities adhere to, and they are completely contradictory. Makes for lively conversation doesn't it :-) > Cypherpunks alternate between smug assertions of the first claim and > panicked wailing about the second. The important point about both of > them, from the average cypherpunk's perspective, is that neither leaves > any room for action. Both views are completely fatalistic in tone. > In one, we are assured victory; in the other, defeat. Neither allows > for human choice. A good discussion should alternate. Certainly it's not the same people. And both urge the same action - tell your congress critter to butt out! > This means that whether the Hollings bill passes or not, the situation > will be exactly the same. People running in "trusted" mode can prove > it; but anyone can run untrusted. Even with the Hollings bill there > will still be people using untrusted mode. The legislation would > not change that. Therefore the Hollings bill would not increase the > effectiveness of the TCPA model. And it follows, then, that Lucky and > Ross are wrong to claim that this bill is intended to legislate use of > the TCPA. The TCPA does not require legislation. Exactly. Let the market decide. This is why it's necessary to contact your congress critter - they don't need to be involved. > Lucky, Ross and others who view this as a catastrophe should look at > the larger picture and reconsider their perspective. Realize that the > "trusted" mode of the TCPA will always be only an option, and there > is no technological, political or economic reason for that to change. > The TCPA gives people new capabilities without removing any old ones. > It makes possible a new kind of information processing that cannot be > accomplished in today's world. It lets people make binding promises that > are impossible today. It makes the world a more flexible place, with > more opportunities and options. Somehow that doesn't sound all that bad. As long as it's not legislated, nobody needs to worry about what gets fabbed. The market will decide if DRM makes any economic sense. I'm betting it doesn't, but I've been wrong before. Untrusted platforms will be cheaper than trusted ones, so there has to be some incentive for customers to buy them. Economic incentives make far more sense than legislated ones. The main point is not the content of the bill, or its purpose. The main point is that government is being told to get involved in the market place, and that, all by itself, is a *bad* idea. If people want to build trusted platforms and put them on the market they can go ahead and do it. If people don't want to buy them, that's their choice, and if others do decide it's worth it, they should be allowed to. As long as TCPA is really an option, the market place is a good way to sort things out. But S.2048 needs to die, not for scary reasons, but just because there's no reason for it in the first place. Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Mon Jun 24 13:18:32 2002 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 13:18:32 -0700 Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: <1024940234.20328.50.camel@yeltsin.mthink> Message-ID: <004701c21bbc$536980e0$0100a8c0@LUCKYVAIO> Pete Chown wrote quoting Ross: > > You need a valid signature on the binary, plus a cert to > use the TCPA > > PKI. That will cost you money (if not at first, then eventually). > > I think it would be a breach of the GPL to stop people > redistributing the signature: "You must cause any work that > you distribute or publish, that in whole or in part contains > or is derived from the Program or any part thereof, to be > licensed as a whole at no charge to all third parties under > the terms of this License." The application or OS vendor can in confidence distribute not just the code, but also the also the signature and cert. In fact, the application vendor can distribute absolutely everything they have access to themselves and you still won't be able to run the application in trusted mode. The cert that enables an application to run in trusted mode is tied to a specific TPM and therefore to a specific motherboard. For this cert to work on another motherboard without a new and different cert, the software vendor would need to extract the 2048-bit secret RSA key [1] from their own motherboard's TPM, make the secret key available for download, followed by the customer importing the key into their own TPM. The TPM, for obvious reasons, offers no facilities to export or import the TPM's internal keys. The GPL cannot possibly require a software author to distribute a hardware crack with their software or be in violation of the GPL. Distributing a crack for TPM's is distributing an infringement device and as such is illegal under US law. Even if the GPL were to be modified to mandate what is technically near impossible to a software vendor to achieve, even this layperson knows that contracts that require illegal acts are unenforceable. Note that I am not referring to acts that might be illegal in the future under the Hollings bill. Doing the above is illegal today. The GPL might be modified to require that the application vendor do whatever is necessary for a user to utilize an application in the way the user deems fit (i.e. in privileged mode), but that would put the GPL into very dangerous, and I believe thoroughly undesirable, territory. With such modifications, the hypothetical new GPL would mandate, to use Richard Stallman's terminology, not just freedom of speech, but free beer as well. That has never been the intend of the GPL. Furthermore, the certs required to run the OS or application will in may cases be issued by a party other than the application author or vendor. To continue using Richard's terminology, to cover this case the GPL would need to be rewritten to mandate that a third-party provide the free beer. I will leave it to the attorneys on this list to elucidate on the legal deficiencies of such a hypothetical contract, since I am not an attorney I will simply state that I sincerely doubt such contract would hold up in litigation. Of course I do not believe the FSF would make such changes. Which gets us back to Ross's point that the TCPA threatens the core of the GPL, from which this discussion started. For completeness I would like to state that I have no personal stake in the continued enforceability of the GPL, being a long-time supporter of the BSD licensing scheme myself. [1] 1024-bit RSA keys were rejected during the design phase of the TPM by members of the TCPA, which, as Anonymous pointed out in a previous post, contains several well-known crypto companies. The TCPA's website, which only makes specs, but not design documents, available to the public, unfortunately does not provide any documentation which reasoning lead to this decision. --Lucky Green --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From celine at flairmail.com Mon Jun 24 15:02:35 2002 From: celine at flairmail.com (celine at flairmail.com) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 14:02:35 -0800 Subject: Get Home Loans Fast Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 9545 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rah at shipwright.com Mon Jun 24 11:02:52 2002 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 14:02:52 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Book Review: Peter Wayner's "Translucent Databases" Message-ID: ...More fun and games from the "We're Monkeys, we'll *go*!!!" school of disputation... :-). Cheers, RAH --- begin forwarded text From hgh7407 at scicmail.com Mon Jun 24 00:30:49 2002 From: hgh7407 at scicmail.com (Vanessa Pratt) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 15:30:49 +0800 Subject: frank,Fibromyalgia? We can help! Message-ID: <200206240737.CAA08885@einstein.ssz.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1861 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pcw2 at flyzone.com Mon Jun 24 14:02:52 2002 From: pcw2 at flyzone.com (Peter Wayner) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 17:02:52 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Book Review: Peter Wayner's "Translucent Databases" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200206242103.g5OL33a04933@slack.lne.com> I think Bob made some great points about my book, but it's clear that this debate is revolving around a few sentences in Bob's review. Perhaps he miscategorizes Brin, perhaps he doesn't. I haven't read _Transparent Society_ in some time. Still, it's important to realize that this isn't just a battle between the state and its citizens. Encryption can provide a practical tool and a great option for the data management engineers. Brin has a good point about the value of openness, but I'm sure he doesn't extend it to things like people's credit card numbers. Brin would probably be interested in the book and the way it leaves some things in the clear. It's all about translucency, which is, after all, partially transparent. The glass is half empty or full. So maybe there's something in common here? The right use of encryption (and any anonymity that comes along with it) can protect businesses, customers, clients, employees and others. I'm sure it might also be used to by a few elites to avoid scrutiny, but that doesn't have to be the case. For me, the mathematics of on-line anonymity are essential parts of on-line security. While I think that there are plenty of personal and emotional reasons to embrace anonymity, one of the best is the higher amount of security the systems offer. Simply put, identity-based systems are more fragile because identity theft is so easy. Systems designed for anonymity avoid that weakness because they're designed, a priori, to work without names. So I think they're just bound to be a bit safer. It should be noted that the anonymous techniques developed by Chaum, Brands and others do not have to be used to avoid scrutiny. You can always tack on your true name in an additional field. To me, the systems just avoid relying on the the name field to keep people honest. I'm glad Bob sees the resonance between _Translucent Databases_ and the world of cypherpunk paranoia, but I would like to avoid a strong connection. It's not that there's no relationship. There is. But the book is meant to be much more practical. It explores how to use the right amount of encryption to lock up the personal stuff in a database without scrambling all of it. In the right situations, the results can be fast, efficient, and very secure. So the techniques are good for the paranoids as well as the apolitical DBAs who just want to do a good job. > > >>It is particularly dishonest of a so-called reviewer not only to >>misinterpret and misconvey another person's position, but to abuse >>quotation marks in the way Robert Hettinga has done in his review of >>Translucent Databases By Peter Wayner. Openly and publicly, I defy >>Hettinga to find any place where I used the word "trust" in the fashion or >>meaning he attributes to me. >> >>In fact, my argument is diametrically opposite to the one that he portrays >>as mine. For him to say that 'Brin seems to want, "trust" of state >>force-monopolists... their lawyers and apparatchiks." demonstrates either >>profound laziness - having never read a word I wrote - or else deliberate >>calumny. In either event, I now openly hold him accountable by calling it >>a damnable lie. This is not a person to be trusted or listened-to by >>people who value credibility. >> >>Without intending-to, he laid bare one of the 'false dichotomies" that >>trap even bright people into either-or - or zero-sum - kinds of >>thinking. For example, across the political spectrum, a "Strong Privacy" >>movement claims that liberty and personal privacy are best defended by >>anonymity and encryption, or else by ornate laws restricting what people >>may know. This approach may seem appealing, but there are no historical >>examples of it ever having worked. >> >>INdeed, those mired in these two approaches seem unable to see outside the >>dichotomy. Hettinga thinks that, because I am skeptical of the right >>wing's passion for cowboy anonymity, that I am therefore automatically an > >advocate of the left wing's prescription of "privacy through state >>coercive information management'. Baloney. A plague on both houses of >>people who seem obsessed with policing what other people are allowed to know. >> >>Strong Privacy advocates bears a severe burden of proof when they claim > >that a world of secrets will protect freedom... even privacy... better > >than what has worked for us so far - general openness. > > > >Indeed, it's a burden of proof that can sometimes be met! Certainly there >>are circumstances when/where secrecy is the only recourse... in concealing >>the location of shelters for battered wives, for instance, or in fiercely >>defending psychiatric records. These examples stand at one end of a >>sliding scale whose principal measure is the amount of harm that a piece >>of information might plausibly do, if released in an unfair manner. At >>the other end of the scale, new technologies seem to make it likely that >>we'll just have to get used to changes in our definition of privacy. What >>salad dressing you use may be as widely known as what color sweater you >>wear on the street... and just as harmlessly boring. >> >>The important thing to remember is that anyone who claims a right to keep >>something secret is also claiming a right to deny knowledge to >>others. There is an inherent conflict! Some kind of criterion must be >>used to adjudicate this tradeoff and most sensible people seem to agree >>that this criterion should be real or plausible harm... not simply whether >>or not somebody likes to keep personal data secret. >> >> >>The modern debate over information, and who controls it, must begin with a >>paradox. >> >>(1) Each of us understands that knowledge can be power. We want to know as >>much as possible about people or groups we see as threatening... and we >>want our opponents to know little about us. Each of us would prescribe >>armor for "the good guys" and nakedness for our worst foes. >> >>(2) Criticism is the best antidote to error. Yet most people, especially >>the mighty, try to avoid it. Leaders of past civilizations evaded >>criticism by crushing free speech and public access to information. This >>sometimes helped them stay in power... but it also generally resulted in >>horrific blunders in statecraft. >> >>3) Ours may be the first civilization to systematically avoid this cycle, >>whose roots lie in human nature. We have learned that few people are >>mature enough to hold themselves accountable. But in an open society where >>criticism flows, adversaries eagerly pounce on each others' errors. We do >>each other the favor of reciprocal criticism (though it seldom personally >>feels like a favor!) >> >> >>Four great social innovations foster our unprecedented wealth and freedom: >>science, justice, democracy & free markets. Each of these "accountability >>arenas" functions best when all players get fair access to information. >>But cheating is always a problem because of (1) and (2) above. It's a >>paradox, all right. >> >>While new surveillance and data technologies pose vexing challenges, we >>may be wise to pause and recall what worked for us so far. Reciprocal >>accountability - a widely shared power to shine light, even on the mighty >>- is the unsung marvel of our age, empowering even eccentrics and >>minorities to enforce their own freedom. Shall we scrap civilization's >>best tool - light - in favor of a fad of secrecy? >> >>Across the political spectrum, a "Strong Privacy" movement claims that >>liberty and personal privacy are best defended by anonymity and >>encryption, or else by ornate laws restricting what people may know. This >>approach may seem appealing, but there are no historical examples of it >>ever having worked. >> >> >>Here are a few themes discussed in The Transparent Society: >> >>* Cameras and surveillance devices swarm our technological world, >>multiplying and getting harder to spot each day. A "Moore's Law of >>Cameras" shows them halving in size, doubling in acuity and movement >>capability and sheer numbers, every year or so. Passing laws won't stop >>them. Robert Heinlein said: "Privacy laws only make the bugs smaller... > >and limit their use to some elite." >> >>But there may be another solution. >> >>* Knowledge is the ultimate drug, and forbidden knowledge is craved above >>all. Credit companies, banned from holding bankruptcy records beyond 7 >>years, now ship the taboo information to offshore 'data havens.' Shall we >>create an underground economy in contraband information, as we have done >>with drugs? Who will benefit? >> >>* One wing of the Strong Privacy crusade wants Euro-style privacy >>commissions with a myriad laws and clerks to police what may be known by >>doctors, corporations, and individuals. Dataflow controls may indeed be >>needed at times! But this solution should be a last resort, not the first >>place we turn. >> >>* Another wing of wing of Strong Privacy likes libertarian techno-fixes -- >>empowering individuals with encrypted cybernetic anonymity. But scientific >>and social flaws may render these panaceas no more effective than 'ghost >>shirts'. Even if they can be made to work, it may just empower a new >>elite - those who best know-how to use the new masks and armor. >> >>* Is government the chief enemy of freedom? That authority center does >>merit close scrutiny... which we've been applying lately with >>unprecedented ardor. Meanwhile other citizens worry about different power >>groups -- aristocracies, corporations, criminal gangs, and technological >>elites. Should 'suspicion of authority' apply in all directions? Can >>anyone justifiably claim exemption from accountability? >> >>* Privacy and personal safety are better safeguarded by catching peeping >>toms. Freedom thrives when we turn 'henchmen' into >>whistle-blowers. Elites will always have some advantages, but we're all >>better protected by knowing than by forbidding others to know. (It is far >>easier to verify that you know something, than to verify that someone else >>is ignorant.) >> >>* Why do our "accountability arenas" work so well? Science, justice, >>democracy & free markets are direct products of openness... most of the >>people knowing most of what's going on, most of the time. Even individual >>eccentricity seems to flourish best in light. Closed societies have >>always been more conformist than open ones! >> >> >>Many of these points may seem counter-intuitive... but so is our entire >>rambunctious, argumentative, tolerant, eccentric, in-your-face culture! >>The Transparent Society explores underlying issues, from the technological >>(cameras, databases and the science of encryption) to the startling (why >>all our films preach suspicion of authority), helping foster a new >>appreciation of our unique civilization. >> >>Defying the temptations of secrecy, we may see a culture like no other, >>filled with boisterous amateurs and individuals whose hunger for >>betterment will propel the next century. This will happen if we stick to a >>formula that already works... most of the people knowing most of what's >>going on, most of the time. >> >> >>==================================================================== >> >> >>"New tech is handing society tough decisions to make anew about old issues >>of privacy and accountability. In opting for omni-directional openness, >>David Brin takes an unorthodox position, arguing knowledgeably and with >>exceptionally balanced perspective." >> - Stewart Brand, Director, Global Business Network >> >>"As David Brin details the inevitability of ubiquitous surveillance, your >>instinct, as an individual facing this one-way mirror, is to hope that he >>is wrong about the facts. As you follow his argument for two-way social >>transparency, you realize your only hope is that he is right." >> - George B. Dyson, author, Darwin Among the Machines >> >>"Where, in the information age, do we draw the line between privacy and >>openness? David Brin's answer is illuminated by his insistence that >>criticism is as vital to eliminating our errors as the T-cells of our >>immune system are to maintaining our health. . . . Brin's informed and >>lucid advocacy of fresh air is very welcome." >> - Arthur Kantrowitz, Professor of Engineering, Dartmouth College >> >>"David Brin is one of the few people thinking and writing about the social > >problems we are going to face in the near future as the result of new >>electronic media. The Transparent Society raises the questions we need to >>ask now, before the universal surveillance infrastructure is in place. Be >>prepared to have your assumptions challenged." >> - Howard Rheingold, author, The Virtual Community >> >>"The Transparent Society reframes the debate on what our world can >>become-and the choices aren't what they may seem." >> - K. Eric Drexler, author, Engines of Creation >> >>"David Brin's nonfiction marvel, The Transparent Society, is what Lewis >>Mumford or Thorstein Veblen might write, could they contemplate our >>increasingly webbed world and its prospects for social change. It's what >>Benjamin Franklin or Thomas Jefferson would be writing these days about >>technology and democracy. Brin's book is full of imaginative, far-sighted >>concern for how fluid information is going to transform our civil society. >>Knowledge only occasionally leads to wisdom, but here we see some, and the >>book is so wonderfully entertaining that it's bound to be widely read." >> - William H. Calvin, neurophysiologist and author of How Brains >> Think. >> >> >> For more >> information, see: http://www.davidbrin.com/ >> > > >-- >((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com)) > God is silent. Now if we can only get Man to shut up. > > >--- end forwarded text > > >-- >----------------- >R. A. Hettinga >The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation >44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA >"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, >[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to >experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' >-- >----------------- >R. A. Hettinga >The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation >44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA >"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, >[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to >experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From pcw2 at flyzone.com Mon Jun 24 14:02:52 2002 From: pcw2 at flyzone.com (Peter Wayner) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 17:02:52 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Book Review: Peter Wayner's "Translucent Databases" Message-ID: > I think Bob made some great points about my book, but it's clear that this debate is revolving around a few sentences in Bob's review. Perhaps he miscategorizes Brin, perhaps he doesn't. I haven't read _Transparent Society_ in some time. Still, it's important to realize that this isn't just a battle between the state and its citizens. Encryption can provide a practical tool and a great option for the data management engineers. Brin has a good point about the value of openness, but I'm sure he doesn't extend it to things like people's credit card numbers. Brin would probably be interested in the book and the way it leaves some things in the clear. It's all about translucency, which is, after all, partially transparent. The glass is half empty or full. So maybe there's something in common here? The right use of encryption (and any anonymity that comes along with it) can protect businesses, customers, clients, employees and others. I'm sure it might also be used to by a few elites to avoid scrutiny, but that doesn't have to be the case. For me, the mathematics of on-line anonymity are essential parts of on-line security. While I think that there are plenty of personal and emotional reasons to embrace anonymity, one of the best is the higher amount of security the systems offer. Simply put, identity-based systems are more fragile because identity theft is so easy. Systems designed for anonymity avoid that weakness because they're designed, a priori, to work without names. So I think they're just bound to be a bit safer. It should be noted that the anonymous techniques developed by Chaum, Brands and others do not have to be used to avoid scrutiny. You can always tack on your true name in an additional field. To me, the systems just avoid relying on the the name field to keep people honest. I'm glad Bob sees the resonance between _Translucent Databases_ and the world of cypherpunk paranoia, but I would like to avoid a strong connection. It's not that there's no relationship. There is. But the book is meant to be much more practical. It explores how to use the right amount of encryption to lock up the personal stuff in a database without scrambling all of it. In the right situations, the results can be fast, efficient, and very secure. So the techniques are good for the paranoids as well as the apolitical DBAs who just want to do a good job. > > >>It is particularly dishonest of a so-called reviewer not only to >>misinterpret and misconvey another person's position, but to abuse >>quotation marks in the way Robert Hettinga has done in his review of >>Translucent Databases By Peter Wayner. Openly and publicly, I defy >>Hettinga to find any place where I used the word "trust" in the fashion or >>meaning he attributes to me. >> >>In fact, my argument is diametrically opposite to the one that he portrays >>as mine. For him to say that 'Brin seems to want, "trust" of state >>force-monopolists... their lawyers and apparatchiks." demonstrates either >>profound laziness - having never read a word I wrote - or else deliberate >>calumny. In either event, I now openly hold him accountable by calling it >>a damnable lie. This is not a person to be trusted or listened-to by >>people who value credibility. >> >>Without intending-to, he laid bare one of the 'false dichotomies" that >>trap even bright people into either-or - or zero-sum - kinds of >>thinking. For example, across the political spectrum, a "Strong Privacy" >>movement claims that liberty and personal privacy are best defended by >>anonymity and encryption, or else by ornate laws restricting what people >>may know. This approach may seem appealing, but there are no historical >>examples of it ever having worked. >> >>INdeed, those mired in these two approaches seem unable to see outside the >>dichotomy. Hettinga thinks that, because I am skeptical of the right >>wing's passion for cowboy anonymity, that I am therefore automatically an > >advocate of the left wing's prescription of "privacy through state >>coercive information management'. Baloney. A plague on both houses of >>people who seem obsessed with policing what other people are allowed to know. >> >>Strong Privacy advocates bears a severe burden of proof when they claim > >that a world of secrets will protect freedom... even privacy... better > >than what has worked for us so far - general openness. > > > >Indeed, it's a burden of proof that can sometimes be met! Certainly there >>are circumstances when/where secrecy is the only recourse... in concealing >>the location of shelters for battered wives, for instance, or in fiercely >>defending psychiatric records. These examples stand at one end of a >>sliding scale whose principal measure is the amount of harm that a piece >>of information might plausibly do, if released in an unfair manner. At >>the other end of the scale, new technologies seem to make it likely that >>we'll just have to get used to changes in our definition of privacy. What >>salad dressing you use may be as widely known as what color sweater you >>wear on the street... and just as harmlessly boring. >> >>The important thing to remember is that anyone who claims a right to keep >>something secret is also claiming a right to deny knowledge to >>others. There is an inherent conflict! Some kind of criterion must be >>used to adjudicate this tradeoff and most sensible people seem to agree >>that this criterion should be real or plausible harm... not simply whether >>or not somebody likes to keep personal data secret. >> >> >>The modern debate over information, and who controls it, must begin with a >>paradox. >> >>(1) Each of us understands that knowledge can be power. We want to know as >>much as possible about people or groups we see as threatening... and we >>want our opponents to know little about us. Each of us would prescribe >>armor for "the good guys" and nakedness for our worst foes. >> >>(2) Criticism is the best antidote to error. Yet most people, especially >>the mighty, try to avoid it. Leaders of past civilizations evaded >>criticism by crushing free speech and public access to information. This >>sometimes helped them stay in power... but it also generally resulted in >>horrific blunders in statecraft. >> >>3) Ours may be the first civilization to systematically avoid this cycle, >>whose roots lie in human nature. We have learned that few people are >>mature enough to hold themselves accountable. But in an open society where >>criticism flows, adversaries eagerly pounce on each others' errors. We do >>each other the favor of reciprocal criticism (though it seldom personally >>feels like a favor!) >> >> >>Four great social innovations foster our unprecedented wealth and freedom: >>science, justice, democracy & free markets. Each of these "accountability >>arenas" functions best when all players get fair access to information. >>But cheating is always a problem because of (1) and (2) above. It's a >>paradox, all right. >> >>While new surveillance and data technologies pose vexing challenges, we >>may be wise to pause and recall what worked for us so far. Reciprocal >>accountability - a widely shared power to shine light, even on the mighty >>- is the unsung marvel of our age, empowering even eccentrics and >>minorities to enforce their own freedom. Shall we scrap civilization's >>best tool - light - in favor of a fad of secrecy? >> >>Across the political spectrum, a "Strong Privacy" movement claims that >>liberty and personal privacy are best defended by anonymity and >>encryption, or else by ornate laws restricting what people may know. This >>approach may seem appealing, but there are no historical examples of it >>ever having worked. >> >> >>Here are a few themes discussed in The Transparent Society: >> >>* Cameras and surveillance devices swarm our technological world, >>multiplying and getting harder to spot each day. A "Moore's Law of >>Cameras" shows them halving in size, doubling in acuity and movement >>capability and sheer numbers, every year or so. Passing laws won't stop >>them. Robert Heinlein said: "Privacy laws only make the bugs smaller... > >and limit their use to some elite." >> >>But there may be another solution. >> >>* Knowledge is the ultimate drug, and forbidden knowledge is craved above >>all. Credit companies, banned from holding bankruptcy records beyond 7 >>years, now ship the taboo information to offshore 'data havens.' Shall we >>create an underground economy in contraband information, as we have done >>with drugs? Who will benefit? >> >>* One wing of the Strong Privacy crusade wants Euro-style privacy >>commissions with a myriad laws and clerks to police what may be known by >>doctors, corporations, and individuals. Dataflow controls may indeed be >>needed at times! But this solution should be a last resort, not the first >>place we turn. >> >>* Another wing of wing of Strong Privacy likes libertarian techno-fixes -- >>empowering individuals with encrypted cybernetic anonymity. But scientific >>and social flaws may render these panaceas no more effective than 'ghost >>shirts'. Even if they can be made to work, it may just empower a new >>elite - those who best know-how to use the new masks and armor. >> >>* Is government the chief enemy of freedom? That authority center does >>merit close scrutiny... which we've been applying lately with >>unprecedented ardor. Meanwhile other citizens worry about different power >>groups -- aristocracies, corporations, criminal gangs, and technological >>elites. Should 'suspicion of authority' apply in all directions? Can >>anyone justifiably claim exemption from accountability? >> >>* Privacy and personal safety are better safeguarded by catching peeping >>toms. Freedom thrives when we turn 'henchmen' into >>whistle-blowers. Elites will always have some advantages, but we're all >>better protected by knowing than by forbidding others to know. (It is far >>easier to verify that you know something, than to verify that someone else >>is ignorant.) >> >>* Why do our "accountability arenas" work so well? Science, justice, >>democracy & free markets are direct products of openness... most of the >>people knowing most of what's going on, most of the time. Even individual >>eccentricity seems to flourish best in light. Closed societies have >>always been more conformist than open ones! >> >> >>Many of these points may seem counter-intuitive... but so is our entire >>rambunctious, argumentative, tolerant, eccentric, in-your-face culture! >>The Transparent Society explores underlying issues, from the technological >>(cameras, databases and the science of encryption) to the startling (why >>all our films preach suspicion of authority), helping foster a new >>appreciation of our unique civilization. >> >>Defying the temptations of secrecy, we may see a culture like no other, >>filled with boisterous amateurs and individuals whose hunger for >>betterment will propel the next century. This will happen if we stick to a >>formula that already works... most of the people knowing most of what's >>going on, most of the time. >> >> >>==================================================================== >> >> >>"New tech is handing society tough decisions to make anew about old issues >>of privacy and accountability. In opting for omni-directional openness, >>David Brin takes an unorthodox position, arguing knowledgeably and with >>exceptionally balanced perspective." >> - Stewart Brand, Director, Global Business Network >> >>"As David Brin details the inevitability of ubiquitous surveillance, your >>instinct, as an individual facing this one-way mirror, is to hope that he >>is wrong about the facts. As you follow his argument for two-way social >>transparency, you realize your only hope is that he is right." >> - George B. Dyson, author, Darwin Among the Machines >> >>"Where, in the information age, do we draw the line between privacy and >>openness? David Brin's answer is illuminated by his insistence that >>criticism is as vital to eliminating our errors as the T-cells of our >>immune system are to maintaining our health. . . . Brin's informed and >>lucid advocacy of fresh air is very welcome." >> - Arthur Kantrowitz, Professor of Engineering, Dartmouth College >> >>"David Brin is one of the few people thinking and writing about the social > >problems we are going to face in the near future as the result of new >>electronic media. The Transparent Society raises the questions we need to >>ask now, before the universal surveillance infrastructure is in place. Be >>prepared to have your assumptions challenged." >> - Howard Rheingold, author, The Virtual Community >> >>"The Transparent Society reframes the debate on what our world can >>become-and the choices aren't what they may seem." >> - K. Eric Drexler, author, Engines of Creation >> >>"David Brin's nonfiction marvel, The Transparent Society, is what Lewis >>Mumford or Thorstein Veblen might write, could they contemplate our >>increasingly webbed world and its prospects for social change. It's what >>Benjamin Franklin or Thomas Jefferson would be writing these days about >>technology and democracy. Brin's book is full of imaginative, far-sighted >>concern for how fluid information is going to transform our civil society. >>Knowledge only occasionally leads to wisdom, but here we see some, and the >>book is so wonderfully entertaining that it's bound to be widely read." >> - William H. Calvin, neurophysiologist and author of How Brains >> Think. >> >> >> For more >> information, see: http://www.davidbrin.com/ >> > > >-- >((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com)) > God is silent. Now if we can only get Man to shut up. > > >--- end forwarded text > > >-- >----------------- >R. A. Hettinga >The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation >44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA >"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, >[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to >experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' >-- >----------------- >R. A. Hettinga >The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation >44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA >"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, >[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to >experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From buyer at sparepartssearch.com Mon Jun 24 14:43:36 2002 From: buyer at sparepartssearch.com (buyer at sparepartssearch.com) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 17:43:36 -0400 Subject: URGENT! We need to place an order Message-ID: <200206242150.QAA31241@einstein.ssz.com> "We need to place an order for the items you quote a few days ago." That's what customers will say after they have found you in http://www.sparepartssearch.com. Just ask Mr. Jerry Barber, president of Power Plus International, McDonough, GA., who uses http://www.sparepartssearch.com to sell boilerroom supplies, replacement boiler parts, pumps and valves. Mr. Barber says, "Our business increased over 35% using this type of marketing. My company receives orders worth several thousand dollars everyday thanks to my pay-per-click ads. I think http://www.sparepartssearch.com is one of the best values for your online advertising dollars if your company sells any kind of replacement items." JOIN TODAY and receive $25 free upon your account activation! Pay-per-click advertising has become THE #1 SOLUTION for advertisers! You ONLY PAY FOR THE TRAFFIC YOU RECIEVE. If a user does not click on your link, you don't pay! Keyword bids start AS LOW AS $0.05! EASY account management - GET 24 HOURS A DAY, 7 DAYS A WEEK ACCOUNT ACCESS where you can add/modify your settings or see reports on your traffic. We are continually EXPANDING TO OFFER YOU MORE TRAFFIC! Reach buyers in OVER 150 DIFFERENT COUNTRIES. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ BOTTOM LINE IF YOUR POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS CAN'T find YOUR WEB SITE in the first 5 to 10 matches ON A SEARCH ENGINE, YOU JUST LOST MONEY! You can BE NUMBER ONE in your product category on http://www.sparepartssearch.com . DON'T DELAY! ACT NOW! JOIN TODAY!!! PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR YOUR COMPANY RIGHT NOW!!! _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Go there now and look around. You'll find the only web site on the internet dedicated entirely to dealing with replacement parts, spares and MRO supplies. Click here to see how it works: http://www.sparepartssearch.com/pages/services/about.html _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ To unsubscribe to this mailing list follow the link below. Unsubscribe: http://www.sparepartssearch.com/pages/unsubscribe.html Do not reply to this message to unsubscribe. Please follow the above link. From info at nextmail.net Mon Jun 24 09:48:24 2002 From: info at nextmail.net (USA Green Card Lottery) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 17:48:24 +0100 Subject: adv: Win a Green Card and Become a U.S Citizen! Message-ID: <200207241605.LAA29827@einstein.ssz.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 5814 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rah at shipwright.com Mon Jun 24 15:01:24 2002 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 18:01:24 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Book Review: Peter Wayner's "Translucent Databases" Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text From 1dragonbreathebook at yahoo.com Tue Jun 25 06:30:50 2002 From: 1dragonbreathebook at yahoo.com (1dragonbreathebook at yahoo.com) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 18:30:50 -1900 Subject: Let it go 26495 Message-ID: <000018d452f2$00006aba$000070a5@.> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4132 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Pete.Chown at skygate.co.uk Mon Jun 24 10:37:12 2002 From: Pete.Chown at skygate.co.uk (Pete Chown) Date: 24 Jun 2002 18:37:12 +0100 Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1024940234.20328.50.camel@yeltsin.mthink> Ross Anderson wrote: > ... that means making sure the PC is the hub of the > future home network; and if entertainment's the killer app, and DRM is > the key technology for entertainment, then the PC must do DRM. Recently there have been a number of articles pointing out how much money Microsoft is losing on Xbox sales. To some extent, of course, console makers expect to lose money on the consoles themselves, making it up on the games. However Microsoft seems to be losing more than anyone else. Perhaps Microsoft don't care, because the Xbox is one vision they have of the future. Gradually it starts running more than just games, but you still get the ease of use and security of a console. It's always risky making predictions, but I think that over the next few years, free software will do in the desktop space what has already happened in the server space. There is a kind of economic inevitability about it; competing with a free product of equivalent quality is virtually impossible. Now, Gates isn't stupid, and I'm sure he's aware of this risk. So we have various alternative strategies. One is web services. The other strategy is to become more closed at the same time as everyone else is becoming more open. That strategy is the Xbox, which may over time evolve into the kind of tamper resistant system that we have been talking about. > During my investigations into TCPA, I learned that HP has started a > development program to produce a TCPA-compliant version of GNU/linux. > I couldn't figure out how they planned to make money out of this. It might simply be useful that it exists. If people complain that they can't run Linux on the new systems, it could create all sorts of anti-trust problems. However, even if they didn't try to make money out of the product, it still wouldn't be free in the freedom sense. A similar problem to this has already come up, albeit in a much less serious form. When the Mindterm ssh client is used as an applet, it needs to be signed in order to be maximally useful. At one point it was available under the GPL, but of course if you changed it the signature was invalidated. In this case you could at least get your own code signing key, but there were problems. Firstly it cost money. Secondly by signing code that you didn't write, you would be taking responsibility for something being secure when you had no easy way of verifying that. > You need a valid signature on the binary, plus a cert to use the TCPA > PKI. That will cost you money (if not at first, then eventually). I think it would be a breach of the GPL to stop people redistributing the signature: "You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in whole or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any part thereof, to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third parties under the terms of this License." This doesn't help with your other point, though; people wouldn't be able to modify the code and have a useful end product. I wonder if it could be argued that your private key is part of the source code? > Anyone will be free to make modifications to the pruned code, but in > the absence of a signature the resulting O/S won't enable users to > access TCPA features. What if the DRM system was cracked by means of something that you were allowed to do under the GPL? If they use the DMCA, or the Motherhood and Apple Pie Promotion Act against you, they have to stop distributing Linux. "If you cannot distribute so as to satisfy simultaneously your obligations under this License and any other pertinent obligations, then as a consequence you may not distribute the Program at all." BTW, Ross, does Microsoft Research in Cambridge work on this kind of technology? -- Pete --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From swilson683pz at home.com Mon Jun 24 16:58:10 2002 From: swilson683pz at home.com (Diane Balfour) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 18:58:10 -0500 Subject: Penis Growth Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 540 bytes Desc: not available URL: From buyer at sparepartssearch.com Mon Jun 24 16:51:01 2002 From: buyer at sparepartssearch.com (buyer at sparepartssearch.com) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 19:51:01 -0400 Subject: URGENT! We need to place an order Message-ID: <200206242351.g5ONp1w0029836@ak47.algebra.com> "We need to place an order for the items you quote a few days ago." That's what customers will say after they have found you in http://www.sparepartssearch.com. Just ask Mr. Jerry Barber, president of Power Plus International, McDonough, GA., who uses http://www.sparepartssearch.com to sell boilerroom supplies, replacement boiler parts, pumps and valves. Mr. Barber says, "Our business increased over 35% using this type of marketing. My company receives orders worth several thousand dollars everyday thanks to my pay-per-click ads. I think http://www.sparepartssearch.com is one of the best values for your online advertising dollars if your company sells any kind of replacement items." JOIN TODAY and receive $25 free upon your account activation! Pay-per-click advertising has become THE #1 SOLUTION for advertisers! You ONLY PAY FOR THE TRAFFIC YOU RECIEVE. If a user does not click on your link, you don't pay! Keyword bids start AS LOW AS $0.05! EASY account management - GET 24 HOURS A DAY, 7 DAYS A WEEK ACCOUNT ACCESS where you can add/modify your settings or see reports on your traffic. We are continually EXPANDING TO OFFER YOU MORE TRAFFIC! Reach buyers in OVER 150 DIFFERENT COUNTRIES. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ BOTTOM LINE IF YOUR POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS CAN'T find YOUR WEB SITE in the first 5 to 10 matches ON A SEARCH ENGINE, YOU JUST LOST MONEY! You can BE NUMBER ONE in your product category on http://www.sparepartssearch.com . DON'T DELAY! ACT NOW! JOIN TODAY!!! PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR YOUR COMPANY RIGHT NOW!!! _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Go there now and look around. You'll find the only web site on the internet dedicated entirely to dealing with replacement parts, spares and MRO supplies. Click here to see how it works: http://www.sparepartssearch.com/pages/services/about.html _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ To unsubscribe to this mailing list follow the link below. Unsubscribe: http://www.sparepartssearch.com/pages/unsubscribe.html Do not reply to this message to unsubscribe. Please follow the above link. From peters_stevens5000 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 24 10:54:17 2002 From: peters_stevens5000 at yahoo.com (PETERS STEVENS) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 19:54:17 +0200 Subject: urgent response is needed Message-ID: <200206241754.g5OHs8w0015091@ak47.algebra.com> FROM:MRS. M SESE-SEKO DEAR FRIEND. I AM MRS. MARIAM SESE-SEKO WIDOW OF LATE PRESIDENT MOBUTU SESE-SEKO OF ZAIRE? NOW KNOWN AS DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO (DRC). I AM MOVED TO WRITE YOU THIS LETTER, THIS WAS IN CONFIDENCE CONSIDERING MY PRESENT CIRCUMSTANCE AND SITUATION. I ESCAPED ALONG WITH MY HUSBAND AND TWO OF OUR SONS TIMOTHY AND BASHER OUT OF DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO (DRC) TO ABIDJAN,COTE D'IVOIRE WHERE MY FAMILY AND I SETTLED, WHILE WE LATER MOVED TO SETTLED IN MORROCO WHERE MY HUSBAND LATER DIED OF CANCER DISEASE. HOWEVER DUE TO THIS SITUATION WE DECIDED TO CHANGED MOST OF MY HUSBAND'S BILLIONS OF DOLLARS DEPOSITED IN SWISS BANK AND OTHER COUNTRIES INTO OTHER FORMS OF MONEY CODED FOR SAFE PURPOSE BECAUSE THE NEW HEAD OF STATE OF (DR) MR LAURENT KABILA HAS MADE ARRANGEMENT WITH THE SWISS GOVERNMENT AND OTHER EUROPEAN COUNTRIES TO FREEZE ALL MY LATE HUSBAND'STREASURES DEPOSITED IN SOME EUROPEAN COUNTRIES. HENCE MY CHILDREN AND I DECIDED LAYING LOW IN AFRICA TO STUDY THE SITUATION TILL WHEN THINGS GETS BETTER, LIKE NOW THAT PRESIDENT KABILA IS DEAD AND THE SON TAKING OVER(JOSEPH KABILA). ONE OF MY LATE HUSBAND'S CHATEAUX IN SOUTHERN FRANCE WAS CONFISCATED BY THE FRENCH GOVERNMENT, AND AS SUCH I HAD TO CHANGE MY IDENTITY SO THAT MY INVESTMENT WILL NOT BE TRACED AND CONFISCATED. I HAVE DEPOSITED THE SUM OF ONE HUNDRED MLLION UNITED STATE DOLLARS (US$80,000,000,00.) WITH A SECURITY COMPANY , FOR SAFEKEEPING. THE FUNDS ARE SECURITY CODED TO PREVENT THEM FROM KNOWING THE CONTENT. WHAT I WANT YOU TO DO IS TO INDICATE YOUR INTEREST THAT YOU WILL ASSIST US BY RECEIVING THE MONEY ON OUR BEHALF IN EUROPE. I WANT YOU TO ASSIST IN INVESTING THIS MONEY, BUT I WILL NOT WANT MY IDENTITY REVEALED. I WILL ALSO WANT TO BUY PROPERTIES AND STOCK IN MULTI-NATIONAL COMPANIES AND TO ENGAGE IN OTHER SAFE AND NON-SPECULATIVE INVESTMENTS. MAY I AT THIS POINT EMPHASISE THE HIGH LEVEL OF CONFIDENTIALITY, WHICH THIS BUSINESS DEMANDS, AND HOPE YOU WILL NOT BETRAY THE TRUST AND CONFIDENCE, WHICH I REPOSE IN YOU IN CONCLUSION, IN THE EVENT YOU ARE INTRESTED TO ASSIST US I WILL LIKE YOU TO CONTACT MY LAWYER WHO I HAVE STATIONED IN HOLLAND TO WITHNESS THE TRANSACTION TO IS CONCLUTION.YOU CAN REACH HIM ON IS DIRECT LINE WHICH IS +31-612-480-860 OR VIA MAIL peters_stevens5000 at yahoo.com.HIS NAME IS STEVENS AND I HAVE THE FALL TRUST IN HIME. I SINCERELY WILL APPRECAITE YOUR ACKNOWLEDGMENT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. BEST REGARDS, MRS M. SESE SEKO From nobody at remailer.privacy.at Mon Jun 24 11:27:05 2002 From: nobody at remailer.privacy.at (Anonymous) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 20:27:05 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Ross's TCPA paper Message-ID: <928c41e66854fd5d093509cdcdbddc99@remailer.privacy.at> The amazing thing about this discussion is that there are two pieces of conventional wisdom which people in the cypherpunk/EFF/"freedom" communities adhere to, and they are completely contradictory. The first is that protection of copyright is ultimately impossible. See the analysis in Schneier and Kelsey's "Street Performer Protocol" paper, http://www.counterpane.com/street_performer.pdf. Or EFF columnist Cory Doctorow's recent recitation of the conventional wisdom at http://boingboing.net/2002_06_01_archive.html#85167215: "providing an untrusted party with the key, the ciphertext and the cleartext but asking that party not to make a copy of your message is just silly, and can't possibly work in a world of Turing-complete computing." The second is that evil companies are going to take over our computers and turn us into helpless slaves who can only sit slack-jawed as they force-feed us whatever content they desire, charging whatever they wish. The recent outcry over TCPA falls into this category. Cypherpunks alternate between smug assertions of the first claim and panicked wailing about the second. The important point about both of them, from the average cypherpunk's perspective, is that neither leaves any room for action. Both views are completely fatalistic in tone. In one, we are assured victory; in the other, defeat. Neither allows for human choice. Let's apply a little common sense for a change, and analyze the situation in the context of a competitive market economy. Suppose there is no law forcing people to use DRM-compliant systems, and everyone can decide freely whether to use one or not. This is plausible because, if we take the doom-sayers at their word, the Hollings bill or equivalent is completely redundant and unnecessary. Intel and Microsoft are already going forward. The BIOS makers are on board; TPM chips are being installed. In a few years there will be plenty of TCPA compliant systems in use and most new systems will include this functionality. Furthermore, inherent to the TCPA concept is that the chip can in effect be turned off. No one proposes to forbid you from booting a non-compliant OS or including non-compliant drivers. However the TPM chip, in conjunction with a trusted OS, will be able to know that you have done so. And because the chip includes an embedded, certified key, it will be impossible to falsely claim that your system is running in a "trusted" mode - only the TPM chip can convincingly make that claim. This means that whether the Hollings bill passes or not, the situation will be exactly the same. People running in "trusted" mode can prove it; but anyone can run untrusted. Even with the Hollings bill there will still be people using untrusted mode. The legislation would not change that. Therefore the Hollings bill would not increase the effectiveness of the TCPA model. And it follows, then, that Lucky and Ross are wrong to claim that this bill is intended to legislate use of the TCPA. The TCPA does not require legislation. Actually the Hollings bill is clearly targeted at the "analog hole", such as the video cable that runs from your PC to the display, or the audio cable to your speakers. Obviously the TCPA does no good in protecting content if you can easily hook an A/D converter into those connections and digitize high quality signals. The only way to remove this capability is by legislation, and that is clearly what the Hollings bill targets. So much for the claim that this bill is intended to enforce the TCPA. That claim is ultimately a red herring. It doesn't matter if the bill exists, what matters is that TCPA technology exists. Let us imagine a world in which most new PCs have TCPA built-in, Microsoft OS's have been adapted to support it, maybe some other OS's have been converted as well. The ultimate goal, according to the doom-sayers, is that digital content will only be made available to people who are running in "trusted" mode as determined by the TPM chip built into their system. This will guarantee that only an approved OS is loaded, and only approved drivers are running. It will not be possible to patch the OS or insert a custom driver to intercept the audio/video stream. You won't be able to run the OS in a virtual mode and provide an emulated environment where you can tap the data. Your system will display the data for you, and you will have no way to capture it in digital form. Now there are some obvious loopholes here. Microsoft software has a track record of bugs, and let's face it, Linux does, too. Despite the claims, the TCPA by itself does nothing to reduce the threat of viruses, worms, and other bug-exploiting software. At best it includes a set of checksums of key system components, but you can get software that does that already. Bugs in the OS and drivers may be exploitable and allow for grabbing DRM protected content. And once acquired, the data can be made widely available. No doubt the OS will be built to allow for frequent updates, similar to antivirus software, so that as an exploit becomes publicized, it will be closed. There will be an ongoing war between the hackers and the software companies, just as we see today. Presumably this will see-saw back and forth for quite a while. Hardware hacking will be another line of attack. The TPM chip isn't exactly omniscient. It's a pretty simple gadget; its only view of the world is through a few tiny wires. Of course it will be surface-mount soldered to the motherboard, but for a price you will probably be able to get yours unsoldered and mounted in a socket which gives the chip a "sanitized" view of your hardware configuration before boot, and switches over to your real, hacked, system once things get running. This will allow you to run your supposedly "secure" OS in virtual mode and still grab the protected data. But it's probably an expensive hack. Clearly no system can be perfect, and the same is true of the TCPA. There will be ongoing leakage of digitally protected data. Perhaps watermarking technologies will be brought into play for another layer of protection, but by and large those have been defeated as well. The goal of these systems is to reduce the quantity of piracy and to raise the price, so that we move away from the system today where do-it-yourself piracy is the norm. Let us suppose that this is the world ten years from now: you can run a secure OS in "trusted" mode and be eligible to download movies and music for a price; or you can run in untrusted mode and no one will let you download other than bootleg copies. This is the horror, the nightmare vision which the doom-sayers frantically wave before us. The important thing to note is this: you are no worse off than today! You are already in the second state today: you run untrusted, and none of the content companies will let you download their data. But boolegs are widely available. All the TCPA "threatens" to do is to provide new options to the world. You will still be able to use your system in exactly the same ways that you use it today; you will be able to run all of the software that you run today. The TPM chip can be disabled or ignored if you don't run in "trusted" mode, and you get the same effect you have today with no TPM chip. You have lost nothing. Ironically, if we lived in a world of honest people, the TCPA would not be necessary. You would be able to buy DRM protected data already, agreeing to the restrictions in exchange for the content, and you would follow the rules. We would have a thriving market in digital content. But we don't live in that world. People can make all the promises they like and the vendors know there is no way to hold them to what they have said. There is not even social opprobrium; look at how eager everyone was to look the other way on the question of whether the DeCSS reverse engineering violated the click-through agreement. The TCPA allows you to do something that you can't do today: run your system in a way which convinces the other guy that you will honor your promises, that you will guard his content as he requires in exchange for his providing it to you. It allows you to be honest. It doesn't force it; you can still do everything you can do today. But it allows it. It gives you the chance to present an honest face even across the anonymizing medium of the net. Lucky, Ross and others who view this as a catastrophe should look at the larger picture and reconsider their perspective. Realize that the "trusted" mode of the TCPA will always be only an option, and there is no technological, political or economic reason for that to change. The TCPA gives people new capabilities without removing any old ones. It makes possible a new kind of information processing that cannot be accomplished in today's world. It lets people make binding promises that are impossible today. It makes the world a more flexible place, with more opportunities and options. Somehow that doesn't sound all that bad. --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From mtire at offer888.net Mon Jun 24 14:06:05 2002 From: mtire at offer888.net (Monitortire.com) Date: 24 Jun 2002 21:06:05 -0000 Subject: Is your car really safe? Message-ID: <200206242104.g5OL4Cw0010238@ak47.algebra.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 621 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nobody at dizum.com Mon Jun 24 12:10:13 2002 From: nobody at dizum.com (Nomen Nescio) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 21:10:13 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Ross's TCPA paper Message-ID: <2818172878649ddcc2cdb2e7c3d65ce4@dizum.com> Ross Anderson writes: > During my investigations into TCPA, I learned that HP has started a > development program to produce a TCPA-compliant version of GNU/linux. > I couldn't figure out how they planned to make money out of this. On > Thursday, at the Open Source Software Economics conference, I figured > out how they might. > ... > The business model, I believe, is this. HP will not dispute that the > resulting `pruned code' is covered by the GPL. You will be able to > download it, compile it, check it against the binary, and do what you > like with it. However, to make it into TCPA-linux, to run it on a > TCPA-enabled machine in privileged mode, you need more than the code. > You need a valid signature on the binary, plus a cert to use the TCPA > PKI. That will cost you money (if not at first, then eventually). Hmmmm.... Not clear that this really works to make money. The GPL allows everyone to redistribute HP's software verbatim, right? So a cert on one copy of the software will work on everyone's. How can HP make money on a product that everyone can copy freely, when they can all share the same cert? It's true that modified versions of the software would not be able to use that cert, and it would no doubt be expensive to get a new cert for the modified software. But that still gives HP no monopoly on selling or supporting its own version. Anyone can step in and do that. Is the cert itself supposed to be somehow copyrighted? Kept secret? Will it be illegal to publish the cert, to share it with someone else? This seems pretty questionable both in terms of copyright law (since a cert is a functional component) and in terms of the GPL (which would arguably cover the cert and forbid restrictively licensing it). It seems more likely that the real purpose is to bring the benefits of TCPA to the Linux world. As an innovator in this technology HP will gain in reputation and be the source that people turn to for development and support in this growing area. The key to making money from open source is reputation. Being first makes good economic sense. You don't need conspiracy theories. --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From Pete.Chown at skygate.co.uk Mon Jun 24 13:45:14 2002 From: Pete.Chown at skygate.co.uk (Pete Chown) Date: 24 Jun 2002 21:45:14 +0100 Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: <928c41e66854fd5d093509cdcdbddc99@remailer.privacy.at> References: <928c41e66854fd5d093509cdcdbddc99@remailer.privacy.at> Message-ID: <1024951516.21398.74.camel@yeltsin.mthink> Anonymous wrote: > Furthermore, inherent to the TCPA concept is that the chip can in > effect be turned off. No one proposes to forbid you from booting a > non-compliant OS or including non-compliant drivers. Good point. At least I hope they don't. :-) > There is not even social opprobrium; look at how eager > everyone was to look the other way on the question of whether the DeCSS > reverse engineering violated the click-through agreement. Perhaps it did, but the licence agreement was unenforceable. It's clearly reverse engineering for interoperability (between Linux and DVD players) so the legal exemption applies. You can't escape the exemption by contract. Now, you might say that morally he should obey the agreement he made. My view is that there is a reason why this type of contract is unenforceable; you might as well take advantage of the exemption. The prosecution was on some nonsense charge that amounted to him burgling his own house. A statute that was meant to penalise computer break-ins was used against someone who owned the computer that he broke into. > The TCPA allows you to do something that you can't do today: run your > system in a way which convinces the other guy that you will honor your > promises, that you will guard his content as he requires in exchange for > his providing it to you. Right, but it has an odd effect too. No legal system gives people complete freedom to contract. Suppose you really, really want to exempt a shop from liability if your new toaster explodes. You can't do it; the legal system does not give you the freedom to contract in that way. DRM, however, gives people complete freedom to make contracts about how they will deal with digital content. Under EU single market rules, a contract term to the effect that you could pass on your content to someone in the UK but not the rest of the EU is unenforceable. No problem for DRM though... I think lawyers will hate this. -- Pete --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From ConsumerDirectInfo at customoffers.com Mon Jun 24 19:48:52 2002 From: ConsumerDirectInfo at customoffers.com (Consumer Direct Info) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 22:48:52 -0400 Subject: Automatic Enrollment Notice Message-ID: <200206250642.BAA09769@einstein.ssz.com> Dear Member, As a valued member of Consumer Direct Info, we are proud to bring you news of our latest relationship with CustomOffers.com, and automatically enroll you in their fabulous network. We thought you'd be interested because they too deliver valuable discounts, special offers, sweepstakes, and entertainment reviews from companies such as AOL/Time Warner, AT&T, Sears, BMG, Chase and Earthlink! So you can begin gaining all the advantages of membership, CustomOffers has already enrolled you to receive your emails introducing you to the "best of the web". If you do not wish to receive any email offers from the CustomOffers Network, simply click on the link below for an automatic deletion. It's that easy. Your Friends at Consumer Direct Info. If you do not wish to receive email from CustomOffers, please click or copy and paste the following address into your browser: http://web1.customoffers.com/optout_pixel.asp?email=CYPHERPUNKS at SSZ.COM&company_id=386 http://www.customoffers.com/privacy.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1378 bytes Desc: not available URL: From thermoflow at thermoflownow.com Tue Jun 25 04:03:15 2002 From: thermoflow at thermoflownow.com (thermoflownow.com) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 03:03:15 -0800 Subject: STOP Muscle & Joint Pain NOW! Message-ID: <200206250958.g5P9wgm62441@horsemanshop.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 9075 bytes Desc: not available URL: From debbie at quickhosts.com Tue Jun 25 05:36:02 2002 From: debbie at quickhosts.com (debbie at quickhosts.com) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 04:36:02 -0800 Subject: Best Source for a Home Loan Message-ID: <2vmc0k.l7ht2f58523@cpimssmtpa17.msn.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 9545 bytes Desc: not available URL: From morlockelloi at yahoo.com Tue Jun 25 06:33:24 2002 From: morlockelloi at yahoo.com (Morlock Elloi) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 06:33:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: <200206251115.HAA3018467@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <20020625133324.95381.qmail@web13206.mail.yahoo.com> > Speaking personally, if asked "DRM & privacy, both or neither?" > then I will take "both" -- YMMV. This bullshit is getting deeper and thicker. (dis)ability to replay received information at will has next to nothing to do with ability to stop unwanted parties from obtaining secret information. Let me rephrase this for stupids: DRM is about enforcing NDA between me and someone who made information available to me. DRM is about preventing me to transmit information which became a part of my experience. DRM is about who owns my memories. One *is* the sum of information obtained from the outside world. Information becomes (a small) part of you. This is why people share songs - they identify with something there and want to communicate it. THAT'S WHY THEY LIKE IT IN THE FIRST PLACE. The ultimate DRM is city government stopping you from describing streets, leased apartment owner stopping you from reminiscing sex you had there, school suing you from passing on the knowledge learned. Put a newborn in a sensory deprivation tank and twenty years later observe someone who fully obeys "rights". There is no moderate answer to this. The only possible answer is FUCK YOU. Privacy is about stopping unwanted from knowing my private bits, bits I share with my chosen circle of associates and friends. And guess what - I am not a friend or associate with entertainment publishers. I am not a member. Sale of information is always a sale to the group one belongs to. After few iterations it quickly expands to the whole connected world. So publishers can choose to (a) become pipes more convenient and faster than information working its way through degrees of separations or (b) go out of business. In the meantime a lot of money and maybe some blood will be spent trying to accomodate sheer greed. There is no middle road. Keep your fingers off my memories or I'll pulverize yours. ===== end (of original message) Y-a*h*o-o (yes, they scan for this) spam follows: Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From geer at TheWorld.com Tue Jun 25 04:15:36 2002 From: geer at TheWorld.com (Dan Geer) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 07:15:36 -0400 Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: Your message of "24 Jun 2002 10:34:52 EDT." Message-ID: <200206251115.HAA3018467@shell.TheWorld.com> Over the last six months, I'd discovered that Carl Ellison (Intel), Joan Feigenbaum (Yale) and I agreed on at least one thing: that the problem statements for "privacy" and for "digital rights management" were identical, viz., "controlled release of information is yours at a distance in space or time" and that as such our choices for the future of digital rights management and privacy are "both or neither" at least insofar as technology, rather than cultural norms & law, drive. Last week at USENIX 2002 I tried this out on Larry Lessig as his keynote had been a takeoff from his recent _The Future of Ideas_ book. His response was confirming: "Of course they are the same!" and he went on to describe that when Mark Stefik (Xerox PARC) had submitted his patent on DRM in the early '90s it had roughly said "wrap data such that if you try to abuse it it will self destruct." Sometime in the late '90s a Canadian inventor had attempted to patent a privacy technology with the rough description "wrap data such that if you try to abuse it it will self destruct." The USPTO denied the patent request on the grounds that it duplicated an application that had already been granted. Speaking personally, if asked "DRM & privacy, both or neither?" then I will take "both" -- YMMV. --dan From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Tue Jun 25 05:28:42 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 07:28:42 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Norway Public Announcement (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 07:44:10 -0400 From: PA List Manager To: DOSTRAVEL at LISTS.STATE.GOV Subject: Norway Public Announcement Norway Public Announcement U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE Office of the Spokesman June 21, 2002 This Public Announcement is being issued to alert Americans traveling and resident in Norway of the potential for disruptions caused by demonstrations planned to coincide with the World Bank Conference to be held in Oslo from June 24-26, 2002. This Public Announcement will expire on June 30, 2002. The World Bank's Annual Bank Conference on Development Economics - Europe (ABCDE-Europe) is scheduled to take place in Oslo, Norway from June 24-26, 2002. Tight security will be in place in and around the venue for the conference (Holmenkollen area of Oslo). Previous summits in other capitals have drawn "anti-globalization" and other activists from around the world, and U.S. citizens should bear in mind that anti-globalization demonstrations in other European cities have sometimes turned violent. Demonstrations and protest marches are expected in downtown Oslo from June 22 through June 26. Travelers are advised to follow news and traffic reports, avoid crowds and demonstrations and to exercise caution. Travelers should be aware of heightened security and potential delays in entering Norway during this period and should always carry proof of identity and citizenship. Police intend to temporarily close access to some downtown train stations in connection with approved demonstrations and will forbid parking in the city center throughout the summit period. In addition, public transportation schedules may be altered. These temporary actions will be posted through the local media. The U.S. Embassy is located at Drammensveien 18, Oslo. The Embassy may be contacted 24 hours a day at telephone (47) 2244-8550 in connection with emergencies such as arrest, serious injury or death of a U.S. citizen. The American Citizen Services Unit is open for routine, non-emergency matters from 9:00 a.m. - 12:00 noon, Monday through Friday. For more information on travel to Norway, please consult the latest Department of State Consular Information Sheet for Norway at http:\\travel.state.gov. Americans traveling and residing abroad should monitor this web site closely, particularly the Department's Worldwide Caution-Public Announcement of March 17, 2002. This Public Announcement will expire on June 30, 2002. *********************************************************** See http://travel.state.gov/travel_warnings.html for State Department Travel Warnings ************************************************************ To change your subscription, go to http://www.state.gov/www/listservs_cms.html From jossy01 at spinfinder.com Tue Jun 25 07:31:01 2002 From: jossy01 at spinfinder.com (joseph edward) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 07:31:01 Subject: urgent response is needed Message-ID: <200206250537.AAA08396@einstein.ssz.com> STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL & URGENT. I am Mr, Joseph Edward a native of Cape Town in South Africa and I am an Executive Accountant with the South Africa DEPARTMENT OF MINERAL RESOURCES AND ENERGY First and foremost, I apologized using this medium to reach you for a transaction/business of this magnitude, but this is due to Confidentiality and prompt access reposed on this medium. I have decided to seek a confidential co-operation with you in the execution of the deal described Hereunder for the benefit of all parties and hope you will keep it as a top secret because of the nature of this transaction. Within the Department of Mining & Natural Resources where I work as an Executive Accountant and with the cooperation of four other top officials, we have in our possession as overdue payment bills totaling Twenty - One Million, Five Hundred Thousand U. S. Dollars ($21,500,000.) which we want to transfer abroad with the assistance and cooperation of a foreign company/individual to receive the said fund on our behalf or a reliable foreign non-company account to receive such funds. More so, we are handicapped in the circumstances, as the South Africa Civil Service Code of Conduct does not allow us to operate offshore account hence your importance in the whole transaction. This amount $21.5m represents the balance of the total contract value executed on behalf of my Department by a foreign contracting firm, which we the officials over-invoiced deliberately. Though the actual contract cost have been paid to the original contractor,leaving the balance in the Tune of the said amount which we have in principles gotten approval to remit by Key tested Telegraphic Transfer (K.T.T) to any foreign bank account you will provide by filing in an application through the Justice Ministry here in South Africa for the transfer of rights and privileges of the former contractor to you. I have the authority of my partners involved to propose that should you be willing to assist us in the transaction, your share of the sum will be 25% of the $21.5 million, 70% for us and 5% for taxation and miscellaneous expenses. The business itself is 100% safe, on your part provided you treat it with utmost secrecy and confidentiality. Also your area of specialization is not a hindrance to the successful execution of this transaction. I have reposed my confidence in you and hope that you will not disappoint me. Endeavor to contact me immediately my e-mail address whether or not you are interested in this deal. If you are not, it will enable me scout for another foreign partner to carry out this deal I want to assure you that my partners and myself are in a position to make the payment of this claim possible provided you can give us a very strong Assurance and guarantee that our share will be secured and please remember to treat this matter as very confidential matter, because we will not comprehend with any form of exposure as we are still in active Government Service and remember once again that time is of the essence in this business. I wait in anticipation of your fullest co-operation. Yours faithfully, JOSEPH EDWARD NOTE:YOUR RESPONSE TO THIS MAIL SHOULD BE SENT TO jossy02 at spinfinder.com From jossy01 at spinfinder.com Tue Jun 25 07:31:01 2002 From: jossy01 at spinfinder.com (joseph edward) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 07:31:01 Subject: urgent response is needed Message-ID: <200206250537.AAA08397@einstein.ssz.com> STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL & URGENT. I am Mr, Joseph Edward a native of Cape Town in South Africa and I am an Executive Accountant with the South Africa DEPARTMENT OF MINERAL RESOURCES AND ENERGY First and foremost, I apologized using this medium to reach you for a transaction/business of this magnitude, but this is due to Confidentiality and prompt access reposed on this medium. I have decided to seek a confidential co-operation with you in the execution of the deal described Hereunder for the benefit of all parties and hope you will keep it as a top secret because of the nature of this transaction. Within the Department of Mining & Natural Resources where I work as an Executive Accountant and with the cooperation of four other top officials, we have in our possession as overdue payment bills totaling Twenty - One Million, Five Hundred Thousand U. S. Dollars ($21,500,000.) which we want to transfer abroad with the assistance and cooperation of a foreign company/individual to receive the said fund on our behalf or a reliable foreign non-company account to receive such funds. More so, we are handicapped in the circumstances, as the South Africa Civil Service Code of Conduct does not allow us to operate offshore account hence your importance in the whole transaction. This amount $21.5m represents the balance of the total contract value executed on behalf of my Department by a foreign contracting firm, which we the officials over-invoiced deliberately. Though the actual contract cost have been paid to the original contractor,leaving the balance in the Tune of the said amount which we have in principles gotten approval to remit by Key tested Telegraphic Transfer (K.T.T) to any foreign bank account you will provide by filing in an application through the Justice Ministry here in South Africa for the transfer of rights and privileges of the former contractor to you. I have the authority of my partners involved to propose that should you be willing to assist us in the transaction, your share of the sum will be 25% of the $21.5 million, 70% for us and 5% for taxation and miscellaneous expenses. The business itself is 100% safe, on your part provided you treat it with utmost secrecy and confidentiality. Also your area of specialization is not a hindrance to the successful execution of this transaction. I have reposed my confidence in you and hope that you will not disappoint me. Endeavor to contact me immediately my e-mail address whether or not you are interested in this deal. If you are not, it will enable me scout for another foreign partner to carry out this deal I want to assure you that my partners and myself are in a position to make the payment of this claim possible provided you can give us a very strong Assurance and guarantee that our share will be secured and please remember to treat this matter as very confidential matter, because we will not comprehend with any form of exposure as we are still in active Government Service and remember once again that time is of the essence in this business. I wait in anticipation of your fullest co-operation. Yours faithfully, JOSEPH EDWARD NOTE:YOUR RESPONSE TO THIS MAIL SHOULD BE SENT TO jossy02 at spinfinder.com From rah at shipwright.com Tue Jun 25 04:52:58 2002 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 07:52:58 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Book Review: Peter Wayner's "Translucent Databases" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 7:52 PM -0700 on 6/24/02, Somebody wrote: > Uh, come on, Bob. If the original message is sent to a certain list, there > is no reason to forward it without comment to that same certain list. Damn. Got cryptography confused with cypherpunks. My mistake. Sorry about that. Cheers, RAH -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From Somebody Tue Jun 25 06:54:02 2002 From: Somebody (Somebody) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 09:54:02 -0400 Subject: Brin Message-ID: You're far from the only one who has aroused his ire, Bob...In fact, it occurs to me that he may deliberately write in the way he does (superficially fascist, with a few bows to libertarians where needed as long as the fascists get final trust/control and are trusted to let the powerless watch them) in order to have an excuse to whine and fulminate... - --- end forwarded text -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 7.5 iQA/AwUBPRiZH8PxH8jf3ohaEQJR1wCg1zjeUE14/nPWsY/NyyKI2nCnvWQAniQg u0ynYdErEj7j5UNVGgoGhC9N =agqZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From jimwaleck at mail.com Tue Jun 25 10:17:56 2002 From: jimwaleck at mail.com (Mariana Patel) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 10:17:56 -0700 Subject: Life Insurance Price Wars Message-ID: <200206251417.g5PEH3X29129@online.affis.net> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1682 bytes Desc: not available URL: From eugen at leitl.org Tue Jun 25 01:39:52 2002 From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 10:39:52 +0200 (CEST) Subject: IP: Warchalking: Marking the physical world for free wireless (fwd) Message-ID: -- -- Eugen* Leitl leitl ______________________________________________________________ ICBMTO: N48 04'14.8'' E11 36'41.2'' http://www.leitl.org 57F9CFD3: ED90 0433 EB74 E4A9 537F CFF5 86E7 629B 57F9 CFD3 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 04:09:24 -0400 From: Dave Farber To: ip Subject: IP: Warchalking: Marking the physical world for free wireless ------ Forwarded Message From: "Robert J. Berger" Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 22:50:13 -0700 Subject: Warchalking: Marking the physical world for free wireless >From Glen Fleishman's 802.11 Blog: http://80211b.weblogger.com/2002/06/24 Warchalking: this is too cool. Chalk a simple glyph to indicate where wireless bandwidth lies. A nice, harmless meme to spread that will surely catch on. Let's see, I'm carrying my laptop, my external antenna, my Macstumbler software, and my street chalk. Ready to go! Link to Warchalking site: http://www.blackbeltjones.com/warchalking/ Its a modern expansion of Hobo Signs: http://www.worldpath.net/~minstrel/hobosign.htm -- Robert J. Berger UltraDevices, Inc. / Internet Bandwidth Development, LLC 15550 Wildcat Ridge Saratoga, CA 95070 408-882-4755 rberger at ultradevices.com / rberger at ibd.com ------ End of Forwarded Message For archives see: http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/ From Mailer-Daemon at swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net Tue Jun 25 10:48:32 2002 From: Mailer-Daemon at swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (Mail Delivery System) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 10:48:32 -0700 Subject: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender Message-ID: This message was created automatically by mail delivery software (Exim). A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed: jmace at flash.net SMTP error from remote mailer after RCPT TO:: host vm6-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.80]: 550 5.1.1 ... Addressee unknown ann1112 at juno.com SMTP error from remote mailer after RCPT TO:: host mx.boston.juno.com [64.136.25.17]: 550 ann1112 at juno.com Account Inactive jmace at hushmail.com SMTP error from remote mailer after RCPT TO:: host smtp.hushmail.com [64.40.111.34]: 550 : User unknown jahangiri at att.net SMTP error from remote mailer after RCPT TO:: host gateway1.att.net [204.127.134.23]: 550 Invalid recipient: kat11182 at att.net SMTP error from remote mailer after RCPT TO:: host gateway1.att.net [204.127.134.23]: 550 Invalid recipient: jmace86965 at att.net SMTP error from remote mailer after RCPT TO:: host gateway1.att.net [204.127.134.23]: 550 Invalid recipient: jmace999 at att.net SMTP error from remote mailer after RCPT TO:: host gateway1.att.net [204.127.134.23]: 550 Invalid recipient: jmace77181 at att.net SMTP error from remote mailer after RCPT TO:: host gateway1.att.net [204.127.134.23]: 550 Invalid recipient: kat1118 at att.net SMTP error from remote mailer after RCPT TO:: host gateway1.att.net [204.127.134.23]: 550 Invalid recipient: kat1118630 at att.net SMTP error from remote mailer after RCPT TO:: host gateway1.att.net [204.127.134.23]: 550 Invalid recipient: laairman at att.net SMTP error from remote mailer after RCPT TO:: host gateway1.att.net [204.127.134.23]: 550 Invalid recipient: kat1118150 at att.net SMTP error from remote mailer after RCPT TO:: host gateway1.att.net [204.127.134.23]: 550 Invalid recipient: ------ This is a copy of the message, including all the headers. ------ From pashley at storm.ca Tue Jun 25 08:16:14 2002 From: pashley at storm.ca (Sandy Harris) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 11:16:14 -0400 Subject: Ross's TCPA paper References: <200206251536.g5PFa2T22804@samsara.law.cwru.edu> Message-ID: <3D18893E.F301A220@storm.ca> "Peter D. Junger" wrote: > : > There is not even social opprobrium; look at how eager > : > everyone was to look the other way on the question of whether the DeCSS > : > reverse engineering violated the click-through agreement. > : > : Perhaps it did, but the licence agreement was unenforceable. It's > : clearly reverse engineering for interoperability (between Linux and DVD > : players) so the legal exemption applies. You can't escape the exemption > : by contract. I certainly agree that that /should/ be the case. However, you assert that it /is/ the case. Under what country's laws? Can you cite test cases? > : Now, you might say that morally he should obey the agreement he made. I'd claim that he made no agreement; a click-through license is not a valid contract. If I recall correctly, a Louisiana court did rule that way in a well-publicised case, and I've heard several Canadians assert that at least some are invalid under our law. > ... The important point > is not, however, that click-through agreements are probably > unenforceable; the important point is that people---at least > those people who think that they own their own computers and > the software copies that they have purchased---generally > believe that they should be unenforceable. However, what people generally believe has little bearing in law. The question is whether courts -- which courts in which countries and on what grounds -- will deem them enforcable and therefore will enforce them when asked to do so. It does not matter much what you believe if a court can be convinced you're violating a law. They have quite effective ways of enforcing such judgements. Of course, there are some good legal arguments that click-through agreements should not be enforcable, and that contracts should not be allowed to restrict reverse engineering. For that matter, there's a good argument that the DVD CCA is an illegal conspiracy to restrict competition and manipulate the markets, and should be prosecuted as such. e.g. the Australian Competition Board has demanded an explanation of region codes: http://www.accc.gov.au//fs-search.htm To quote two speeches from that site: Difficulties between the pro-competitive community and Intellectual Property Mr Ross Jones, Commissioner Australian Competition & Consumer Commission | Australian consumers are currently suffering from an international cartel that | restricts their access to digital versatile discs (DVDs). The cartel, headed | by major film studios in agreement with the manufacturers of DVD players, has | divided the world into regions. This ensures that DVDs on sale in Australia | will only function on a DVD player licensed for region 4 that includes Australia. | The stated aim is to protect cinema ticket sales by preventing people viewing | movies on DVDs in their homes before distribution to cinemas. The Australian | subsidiaries of US film companies have been requested by the Commission to | explain their actions. It will then decide what action can be taken. Globalisation and Competition Policy Professor Allan Fels, Chairman Australian Competition & Consumer Commission | The Commission has requested the Australian subsidiaries of United States film | companies to explain why their regional restrictions on DVDs should not be deemed | a breach of the Trade Practices Act 1974. ... | | The Commission believes RPC is anti-competitive with Australian consumers lacking | a choice of DVD videos and possibly paying higher prices. The quoted documents are a couple of years old. Does anyone have an update? A few of us have been trying, without much success, to convince the Canadian Competition Bureau to prosecute these conspirators. It might be worth a shot in other countries. > (And in the > actual case involving Linux and DVD players there was no > agreement not to circumvent the technological control measures > in DVD's; the case was based on the theory that the circumvention > violated the Digital Millenium Copyright Act.) Correct, for the case brought on the East Coast (NY? NJ?) by the MPAA. However, the first case, brought in California by DVD CCA, did not use the DMCA. It alleged theft of trade secrets, and violation of the license agreement. From junger at samsara.law.cwru.edu Tue Jun 25 08:36:01 2002 From: junger at samsara.law.cwru.edu (Peter D. Junger) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 11:36:01 -0400 Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: Your message of "24 Jun 2002 21:45:14 BST." <1024951516.21398.74.camel@yeltsin.mthink> Message-ID: <200206251536.g5PFa2T22804@samsara.law.cwru.edu> Pete Chown writes: : Anonymous wrote: : : > Furthermore, inherent to the TCPA concept is that the chip can in : > effect be turned off. No one proposes to forbid you from booting a : > non-compliant OS or including non-compliant drivers. : : Good point. At least I hope they don't. :-) : : > There is not even social opprobrium; look at how eager : > everyone was to look the other way on the question of whether the DeCSS : > reverse engineering violated the click-through agreement. : : Perhaps it did, but the licence agreement was unenforceable. It's : clearly reverse engineering for interoperability (between Linux and DVD : players) so the legal exemption applies. You can't escape the exemption : by contract. Now, you might say that morally he should obey the : agreement he made. My view is that there is a reason why this type of : contract is unenforceable; you might as well take advantage of the : exemption. That isn't the reason why a click-through agreement isn't enforceable---the agreement could, were it enforceable, validlly forbid reverse engineering for any reason and that clause would in most cases be upheld. But, unless you buy your software from the copyright owner, you own your copy of the software and clicking on a so called agreement with the copyright owner that you won't do certain things with your software is---or, at least should be---as unenforceable as promise to your doctor that you won't smoke another cigarette. The important point is not, however, that click-through agreements are probably unenforceable; the important point is that people---at least those people who think that they own their own computers and the software copies that they have purchased---generally believe that they should be unenforceable. (And in the actual case involving Linux and DVD players there was no agreement not to circumvent the technological control measures in DVD's; the case was based on the theory that the circumvention violated the Digital Millenium Copyright Act.) : The prosecution was on some nonsense charge that amounted to him : burgling his own house. A statute that was meant to penalise computer : break-ins was used against someone who owned the computer that he broke : into. : : > The TCPA allows you to do something that you can't do today: run your : > system in a way which convinces the other guy that you will honor your : > promises, that you will guard his content as he requires in exchange for : > his providing it to you. : : Right, but it has an odd effect too. No legal system gives people : complete freedom to contract. Suppose you really, really want to exempt : a shop from liability if your new toaster explodes. You can't do it; : the legal system does not give you the freedom to contract in that way. : : DRM, however, gives people complete freedom to make contracts about how : they will deal with digital content. Under EU single market rules, a : contract term to the effect that you could pass on your content to : someone in the UK but not the rest of the EU is unenforceable. No : problem for DRM though... I don't think that one should confuse contract limitations, or limitations on enforceable contract limitations, with technological limitations. There is nothing, for example, in any legal system that forbids one from violating the law of gravity. One of the many problems with the use of the Digital Millenium Copyright Act to enforce the technological control measures in DVD's was that it was based on the rather weird theory that it should be illegal to do something that someone else tried, but failed, to make technologically impossible to do. (Thus I am rather doubtful that Lessig's idea the everything is code is useful for analytical, rather than rhetorical, purposes.) : I think lawyers will hate this. I don't see why we should. We don't hate the law of gravity or the law of large numbers. -- Peter D. Junger--Case Western Reserve University Law School--Cleveland, OH EMAIL: junger at samsara.law.cwru.edu URL: http://samsara.law.cwru.edu NOTE: junger at pdj2-ra.f-remote.cwru.edu no longer exists --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From emc at artifact.psychedelic.net Tue Jun 25 11:49:56 2002 From: emc at artifact.psychedelic.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 11:49:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: "Terror Reading" Message-ID: <200206251850.g5PIoBP28513@artifact.psychedelic.net> It was my understanding that libraries destroy records of patrons' activity as soon as the books are returned. Nonetheless, this is an interesting Federal fishing expedition, with warrants issued by secret courts, and criminal penalties for librarians who talk too much. http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-attacks-libraries0625jun24.story ----- By CHRISTOPHER NEWTON Associated Press Writer June 25, 2002, 1:40 AM EDT WASHINGTON -- Across the nation, FBI investigators are quietly visiting libraries and checking the reading records of people they suspect of being in league with terrorists, library officials say. The FBI effort, authorized by the anti-terrorism law enacted after the Sept. 11 attacks, is the first broad government check of library records since the 1970s, when prosecutors reined in the practice for fear of abuses. A Justice Department official in the civil rights division and FBI officials declined to comment Monday, except to note that such searches are now legal under the Patriot Act that President Bush signed last October. Libraries across the nation were reluctant to discuss their dealings with the FBI. The same law that makes the searches legal also makes it a criminal offense for librarians to reveal the details or extent of the contact. ... -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From rptdynamics1000 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 25 10:44:34 2002 From: rptdynamics1000 at yahoo.com (rptdynamics1000 at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 12:44:34 -0500 Subject: ADV OTCBB:WPCT A COMPANY ON THE RISE Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 10268 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rah at shipwright.com Tue Jun 25 09:54:33 2002 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 12:54:33 -0400 Subject: Brin Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp Size: 4773 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cypherpunks at algebra.com Tue Jun 25 10:38:42 2002 From: cypherpunks at algebra.com (cypherpunks at algebra.com) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 13:38:42 -0400 Subject: A.C. Swinburne Message-ID: META MAX FOR MEN AND WOMEN Yours Free for 30 Days The all natural sexual performance for men and women This special formula is specifically designed to " STIMULATE SEXUAL RESPONSE " and revive arousal powers. It is also intended to help overcome sexual roadblocks and allow you to gain the stimulating drive vital for proper sexual performance. And although it can be remarkably effective, Meta Max is an all -natural, safe formula. MOTHER NATURE'S WONDER pill...yours risk free!! To Claim Your 30 Day Trial Offer.. Go To: http://www.metamax4life.us?id=625 To Be Removed Go To Above Link And Click On Remove... 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Je vous invite 횪 soutenir sa protection en vous rendant sur le site : D혪avance merci Cordialement, Estelle From ashwood at msn.com Tue Jun 25 14:08:49 2002 From: ashwood at msn.com (Joseph Ashwood) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 14:08:49 -0700 Subject: Ross's TCPA paper References: <928c41e66854fd5d093509cdcdbddc99@remailer.privacy.at> Message-ID: <003601c21c8c$cd11f320$6501a8c0@josephas> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anonymous" > The amazing thing about this discussion is that there are two pieces > of conventional wisdom which people in the cypherpunk/EFF/"freedom" > communities adhere to, and they are completely contradictory. > The first is that protection of copyright is ultimately impossible. > The second is that evil companies are going to take over our computers > and turn us into helpless slaves who can only sit slack-jawed as they > force-feed us whatever content they desire, charging whatever they wish. I disagree that these are entirely contradictory. The first is a statement in the realm of logic; that if Bob is prepared to deal with whatever consequences will occur because of the publication of the conversation, there is nothing Alice can do to stop him (short of killing him before he publishes). The second is a statement in the realm of law, that companies will try to rid themselves of any requirements that are painful to their bottomline. In the current case there is a perceived threat of this nature (right or wrong) regarding the TCPA, that corporations are using their monetary power to revoke rights that are currently enjoyed. These statements are not contradictory; Alice can still do as she pleases to the TCPA devices in her computer, the problem arises that she may have to deal with substantial civil and criminal penalties for doing so. This is similar to the question "Is Alice free to walk into a bank carrying a full-automatic weapon, kill everyone inside, and steal all the money?" yes she is, but she has to be prepared to deal with the (wo)manhunt that will begin the moment something like that happens, and the inevitable that she simply won't live to stand trial (with high probability). Joe From ashwood at msn.com Tue Jun 25 14:23:08 2002 From: ashwood at msn.com (Joseph Ashwood) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 14:23:08 -0700 Subject: "Terror Reading" References: <200206251850.g5PIoBP28513@artifact.psychedelic.net> Message-ID: <009f01c21c8f$06a56980$6501a8c0@josephas> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Cordian" > It was my understanding that libraries destroy records of patrons' > activity as soon as the books are returned. Nonetheless, this is an > interesting Federal fishing expedition, with warrants issued by secret > courts, and criminal penalties for librarians who talk too much. I can tell you that at least in some areas that is simply not the case. I have personal experience with the San Jose City library and know this for a fact to be incorrect. They store information since the last upgrade of the central database, currently the better part of a decade, but coming up on a cycle point. Although it is very difficult to get the information, and large portions of even that have been lost through various issues. That is just a single area, but it seems reasonable that most cities/counties/schools would follow the same general principle. Of course with the lax way the information is kept it takes nearly a week to recover the list of books you've checked out in the last month that have been returned (unless there are penalties), so there is some saving grace to the system. Joe From junger at samsara.law.cwru.edu Tue Jun 25 11:47:06 2002 From: junger at samsara.law.cwru.edu (Peter D. Junger) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 14:47:06 -0400 Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 25 Jun 2002 11:16:14 EDT." <3D18893E.F301A220@storm.ca> Message-ID: <200206251847.g5PIl7W23546@samsara.law.cwru.edu> Sandy Harris writes: : "Peter D. Junger" wrote: : : > : > There is not even social opprobrium; look at how eager : > : > everyone was to look the other way on the question of whether the DeCSS : > : > reverse engineering violated the click-through agreement. : > : : > : Perhaps it did, but the licence agreement was unenforceable. It's : > : clearly reverse engineering for interoperability (between Linux and DVD : > : players) so the legal exemption applies. You can't escape the exemption : > : by contract. : : I certainly agree that that /should/ be the case. However, you assert : that it /is/ the case. Under what country's laws? Can you cite test : cases? I didn't quite assert that it is the case, although it should be if one reads the applicable provisions of the copyright act and the sales article of the Uniform Commercial Code. As to a case, there is one out of California involving Adobe where a federal district court went a long way toward holding that recently. : > : Now, you might say that morally he should obey the agreement he made. : : I'd claim that he made no agreement; a click-through license is not a : valid contract. If I recall correctly, a Louisiana court did rule that : way in a well-publicised case, and I've heard several Canadians assert : that at least some are invalid under our law. : : > ... The important point : > is not, however, that click-through agreements are probably : > unenforceable; the important point is that people---at least : > those people who think that they own their own computers and : > the software copies that they have purchased---generally : > believe that they should be unenforceable. : : However, what people generally believe has little bearing in law. But it has everything to do with what people believe is moral. : : The question is whether courts -- which courts in which countries : and on what grounds -- will deem them enforcable and therefore : will enforce them when asked to do so. It does not matter much : what you believe if a court can be convinced you're violating a : law. They have quite effective ways of enforcing such judgements. : : Of course, there are some good legal arguments that click-through : agreements should not be enforcable, and that contracts should not : be allowed to restrict reverse engineering. : : For that matter, there's a good argument that the DVD CCA is an : illegal conspiracy to restrict competition and manipulate the : markets, and should be prosecuted as such. e.g. the Australian : Competition Board has demanded an explanation of region codes: : : http://www.accc.gov.au//fs-search.htm : : To quote two speeches from that site: : : Difficulties between the pro-competitive community and Intellectual Property : Mr Ross Jones, Commissioner : Australian Competition & Consumer Commission : : | Australian consumers are currently suffering from an international cartel t : hat : | restricts their access to digital versatile discs (DVDs). The cartel, heade : d : | by major film studios in agreement with the manufacturers of DVD players, h : as : | divided the world into regions. This ensures that DVDs on sale in Australia : | will only function on a DVD player licensed for region 4 that includes Aust : ralia. : | The stated aim is to protect cinema ticket sales by preventing people viewi : ng : | movies on DVDs in their homes before distribution to cinemas. The Australia : n : | subsidiaries of US film companies have been requested by the Commission to : | explain their actions. It will then decide what action can be taken. : : Globalisation and Competition Policy : Professor Allan Fels, Chairman : Australian Competition & Consumer Commission : : | The Commission has requested the Australian subsidiaries of United States f : ilm : | companies to explain why their regional restrictions on DVDs should not be : deemed : | a breach of the Trade Practices Act 1974. ... : | : | The Commission believes RPC is anti-competitive with Australian consumers l : acking : | a choice of DVD videos and possibly paying higher prices. : : The quoted documents are a couple of years old. Does anyone have : an update? : : A few of us have been trying, without much success, to convince the : Canadian Competition Bureau to prosecute these conspirators. It might : be worth a shot in other countries. : : > (And in the : > actual case involving Linux and DVD players there was no : > agreement not to circumvent the technological control measures : > in DVD's; the case was based on the theory that the circumvention : > violated the Digital Millenium Copyright Act.) : : Correct, for the case brought on the East Coast (NY? NJ?) by the : MPAA. However, the first case, brought in California by DVD CCA, : did not use the DMCA. It alleged theft of trade secrets, and : violation of the license agreement. The East Coast case which was decided against the publisher arose in the federal district court for New York and was finally decided the wrong way by the 2d Circuit court of appeals. The California case arose in the California courts and was based almost entirely on trade secret claims. (The only way that licenses got into the case was the claim that the original parties who had done the reverse engineering were bound by license agreements to keep the information secret.) In that case the good guys have won so far. -- Peter D. Junger--Case Western Reserve University Law School--Cleveland, OH EMAIL: junger at samsara.law.cwru.edu URL: http://samsara.law.cwru.edu NOTE: junger at pdj2-ra.f-remote.cwru.edu no longer exists From Wilfred at Cryogen.com Tue Jun 25 13:06:50 2002 From: Wilfred at Cryogen.com (Wilfred L. Guerin) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 15:06:50 -0500 Subject: $US$ Financial Termination, Implications? Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20020625150650.00af4df0@127.0.0.1> Here is the treasury info: http://www.fms.treas.gov/dts/index.html DATA: [day# \t value, in millions $$ us] 128 5903323 129 5908064 130 5919484 133 5919899 134 5921164 135 5947373 136 5949975 137 5949975 138 5949975 139 5949975 ... ... 175 5949975 176 5949975 [now] The mandatory debt cap is 5,950,000. This is OBVIOUSLY not a legitimate numerical representation. Standard derivative increase is expected. (Reality) Upon breach of this value, federal govt shuts down, and a bunch of problems ensue... Anyone with knowledge on the topic care to explain? What actually is SUPPOSED to happen? What WILL happen? As elucidated also here: http://www.etherzone.com/2002/henr070202.shtml -Wilfred L. Guerin -- The Unfortionately Slightly Enlightened Sheep. Wilfred at Cryogen.com From k.brown at ccs.bbk.ac.uk Tue Jun 25 08:51:14 2002 From: k.brown at ccs.bbk.ac.uk (Ken Brown) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 16:51:14 +0100 Subject: Ross's TCPA paper References: <1024940234.20328.50.camel@yeltsin.mthink> Message-ID: <3D189172.DD89B519@ccs.bbk.ac.uk> Pete Chown wrote: [...] > This doesn't help with your other point, though; people wouldn't be able > to modify the code and have a useful end product. I wonder if it could > be argued that your private key is part of the source code? Am I expected to distribute my password with my code? From hseaver at cybershamanix.com Tue Jun 25 14:56:10 2002 From: hseaver at cybershamanix.com (Harmon Seaver) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 16:56:10 -0500 Subject: "Terror Reading" In-Reply-To: <009f01c21c8f$06a56980$6501a8c0@josephas> References: <200206251850.g5PIoBP28513@artifact.psychedelic.net> <009f01c21c8f$06a56980$6501a8c0@josephas> Message-ID: <20020625215610.GA14759@cybershamanix.com> As a sysadmin in various libraries, I can attest to the fact that most library software is set to drop the record of what anyone has checked out as soon as the book returns. I know that most librarians are extremely opposed to the whole concept of anyone knowing what other people are reading, know also of one case of a library clerk being fired when it was discovered that they were spying on the reading habits of other librarians. And when the FBI tried back in the 50's and 60's to access library records they were almost universally stonewalled. While I realize it would be possible to reset the software to keep the records longer, if it were indeed happening, everyone working in that library would be aware of it, and people would be talking. I don't know of any way it would be possible to make the software keep track of just one person, it would have to keep the records for everyone. Of course, someone could keep track manually, but I'd be willing to bet that if this were happening at all, the ALS would know about it and would be filing suit against the DOJ. On Tue, Jun 25, 2002 at 02:23:08PM -0700, Joseph Ashwood wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Eric Cordian" > > > It was my understanding that libraries destroy records of patrons' > > activity as soon as the books are returned. Nonetheless, this is an > > interesting Federal fishing expedition, with warrants issued by secret > > courts, and criminal penalties for librarians who talk too much. > > I can tell you that at least in some areas that is simply not the case. I > have personal experience with the San Jose City library and know this for a > fact to be incorrect. They store information since the last upgrade of the > central database, currently the better part of a decade, but coming up on a > cycle point. Although it is very difficult to get the information, and large > portions of even that have been lost through various issues. > > That is just a single area, but it seems reasonable that most > cities/counties/schools would follow the same general principle. Of course > with the lax way the information is kept it takes nearly a week to recover > the list of books you've checked out in the last month that have been > returned (unless there are penalties), so there is some saving grace to the > system. > Joe -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com From Ross.Anderson at cl.cam.ac.uk Tue Jun 25 08:56:31 2002 From: Ross.Anderson at cl.cam.ac.uk (Ross Anderson) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 16:56:31 +0100 Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: Message from Dan Geer of "Tue, 25 Jun 2002 07:15:36 EDT." <200206251115.HAA3018467@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: I don't believe that the choice is both privacy and TCPA, or neither. Essentially all privacy violations are abuses of authorised access by insiders. Your employer's medical insurance scheme insists on a waiver allowing them access to your records, which they then use for promotion decisions. The fizx is fundamentally legislative: that sort of behaviour is generally illegal in Europe, but tolerated in the USA. There may be symmetry when we consider the problem as theoretical computer scientists might, as an issue for abstract machines. This symmetry breaks rapidly when the applications are seen in context. As well as the legal aspects, there are also the economic aspects: most security systems promote the interests of the people who pay for them (surprise, surprise). So I do not agree with the argument that we must allow DRM in order to get privacy. Following that line brings us to a world in which we have DRM, but where the privacy abuses persist just as before. There is simply no realistic prospect of American health insurers or HMOs settling for one-time read-only access to your medical records, no matter how well that gets implemented in Palladium Ross From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Tue Jun 25 16:31:51 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 18:31:51 -0500 Subject: Slashdot | Does Drawing on Experience Infringe on Others' IP? Message-ID: <3D18FD66.F420F0E@ssz.com> I wonder where 'they' got 'their IP' from... http://ask.slashdot.org/askslashdot/02/06/25/1750229.shtml?tid=156 -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Tue Jun 25 16:37:04 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 18:37:04 -0500 Subject: The Register - BBC takes a big sledgehammer to small nerd - Scanners threaten national security (UK) Message-ID: <3D18FEA0.2E355C63@ssz.com> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/55/25888.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Tue Jun 25 16:38:52 2002 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 18:38:52 -0500 Subject: The Register - MS to eradicate GPL, hence Linux (Criminalize it, re: Levy's story) Message-ID: <3D18FF0C.EB5DB3A6@ssz.com> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/25891.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate at open-forge.org www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- From adam at homeport.org Tue Jun 25 16:49:46 2002 From: adam at homeport.org (Adam Shostack) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 19:49:46 -0400 Subject: "Terror Reading" In-Reply-To: <20020625215610.GA14759@cybershamanix.com>; from hseaver@cybershamanix.com on Tue, Jun 25, 2002 at 04:56:10PM -0500 References: <200206251850.g5PIoBP28513@artifact.psychedelic.net> <009f01c21c8f$06a56980$6501a8c0@josephas> <20020625215610.GA14759@cybershamanix.com> Message-ID: <20020625194945.A62894@lightship.internal.homeport.org> On Tue, Jun 25, 2002 at 04:56:10PM -0500, Harmon Seaver wrote: | would be aware of it, and people would be talking. I don't know of any way it | would be possible to make the software keep track of just one person, it would | have to keep the records for everyone. Of course, someone could keep track | manually, but I'd be willing to bet that if this were happening at all, the ALS | would know about it and would be filing suit against the DOJ. No, they wouldn't. The USA PATRIOT act forbids a library from talking about it. Thats why point 12 of the recent House Judiciary committee letter to Ashcroft asks about libraries. http://www.eff.org/Privacy/Surveillance/Terrorism_militias/20020613_letter_to_ashcroft.html | | On Tue, Jun 25, 2002 at 02:23:08PM -0700, Joseph Ashwood wrote: | > ----- Original Message ----- | > From: "Eric Cordian" | > | > > It was my understanding that libraries destroy records of patrons' | > > activity as soon as the books are returned. Nonetheless, this is an | > > interesting Federal fishing expedition, with warrants issued by secret | > > courts, and criminal penalties for librarians who talk too much. | > | > I can tell you that at least in some areas that is simply not the case. I | > have personal experience with the San Jose City library and know this for a | > fact to be incorrect. They store information since the last upgrade of the | > central database, currently the better part of a decade, but coming up on a | > cycle point. Although it is very difficult to get the information, and large | > portions of even that have been lost through various issues. | > | > That is just a single area, but it seems reasonable that most | > cities/counties/schools would follow the same general principle. Of course | > with the lax way the information is kept it takes nearly a week to recover | > the list of books you've checked out in the last month that have been | > returned (unless there are penalties), so there is some saving grace to the | > system. | > Joe | | -- | Harmon Seaver | CyberShamanix | http://www.cybershamanix.com | -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume From hseaver at cybershamanix.com Tue Jun 25 18:02:55 2002 From: hseaver at cybershamanix.com (Harmon Seaver) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 20:02:55 -0500 Subject: "Terror Reading" In-Reply-To: <20020625194945.A62894@lightship.internal.homeport.org> References: <200206251850.g5PIoBP28513@artifact.psychedelic.net> <009f01c21c8f$06a56980$6501a8c0@josephas> <20020625215610.GA14759@cybershamanix.com> <20020625194945.A62894@lightship.internal.homeport.org> Message-ID: <20020626010255.GB14884@cybershamanix.com> Obviously you don't realize how pissed off librarians would be about it. There would very quickly be a court challenge, just as there was a court challenge to it back in the 50's, and just like there has been a court challenge to everything else like this -- the filtering acts, etc. How would they serve this order? If they came to me as the sysadmin, I'd have to talk to my boss, the director about and also to an attorney, before I did anything for them. And if I changed the settings on the database to keep all records, everbody in the library would know about it very quickly, and there would be a some real pissed off people demanding to know why I had done it. Furthermore, most libraries these days have joint databases with a bunch of libraries in the area, and they would notice the change and would be jumping up and down, demanding public meetings, etc. So the only way they could have it done is to approach someone to have them look at the system day by day and write down what the victim of the warrant was checking out. And what if he didn't check it out, just read it in the library? So much for that data, there'd be none. Or would the Feebs just have one of their own come into the library each day and access the staff side of the software -- people would certainly notice that too. People would talk, believe me. You can't get people to do something that pisses them off and expect them to really cooperate. I'd be willing to bet that in most libraries if they didn't file a court challenge the victim would get an anonymous phone call from a pay phone some night. On Tue, Jun 25, 2002 at 07:49:46PM -0400, Adam Shostack wrote: > On Tue, Jun 25, 2002 at 04:56:10PM -0500, Harmon Seaver wrote: > > | would be aware of it, and people would be talking. I don't know of any way it > | would be possible to make the software keep track of just one person, it would > | have to keep the records for everyone. Of course, someone could keep track > | manually, but I'd be willing to bet that if this were happening at all, the ALS > | would know about it and would be filing suit against the DOJ. > > > No, they wouldn't. The USA PATRIOT act forbids a library from talking > about it. Thats why point 12 of the recent House Judiciary committee > letter to Ashcroft asks about libraries. > > http://www.eff.org/Privacy/Surveillance/Terrorism_militias/20020613_letter_to_ashcroft.html > > > > | > | On Tue, Jun 25, 2002 at 02:23:08PM -0700, Joseph Ashwood wrote: > | > ----- Original Message ----- > | > From: "Eric Cordian" > | > > | > > It was my understanding that libraries destroy records of patrons' > | > > activity as soon as the books are returned. Nonetheless, this is an > | > > interesting Federal fishing expedition, with warrants issued by secret > | > > courts, and criminal penalties for librarians who talk too much. > | > > | > I can tell you that at least in some areas that is simply not the case. I > | > have personal experience with the San Jose City library and know this for a > | > fact to be incorrect. They store information since the last upgrade of the > | > central database, currently the better part of a decade, but coming up on a > | > cycle point. Although it is very difficult to get the information, and large > | > portions of even that have been lost through various issues. > | > > | > That is just a single area, but it seems reasonable that most > | > cities/counties/schools would follow the same general principle. Of course > | > with the lax way the information is kept it takes nearly a week to recover > | > the list of books you've checked out in the last month that have been > | > returned (unless there are penalties), so there is some saving grace to the > | > system. > | > Joe > | > | -- > | Harmon Seaver > | CyberShamanix > | http://www.cybershamanix.com > | > > -- > "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." > -Hume -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com From hermans at tytcorp.com Tue Jun 25 18:03:55 2002 From: hermans at tytcorp.com (hermans at tytcorp.com) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 20:03:55 -0500 Subject: ADV: Save Big on Sporting Goods... Message-ID: <55AH1Q8WX90S1.969XS.hermans@tytcorp.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1152 bytes Desc: not available URL: From hseaver at cybershamanix.com Tue Jun 25 18:35:36 2002 From: hseaver at cybershamanix.com (Harmon Seaver) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 20:35:36 -0500 Subject: "Terror Reading" References: <20020625215610.GA14759@cybershamanix.com>; from hseaver@cybershamanix.com on Tue, Jun 25, 2002 at 04:56:10PM -0500 <3D18E16E.17422.1110CE@localhost> Message-ID: <3D191A68.7010005@cybershamanix.com> jayh at 1st.net wrote: > On 25 Jun 2002 at 19:49, Adam Shostack wrote: > > The USA PATRIOT act forbids a library from talking > >>about it. Thats why point 12 of the recent House Judiciary committee >>letter to Ashcroft asks about libraries. > > > hmmmm... does that mean the by declaring that his library does not have than info, > and thus has not provided info to the feds, is that declaration in itself a violation of > USA PATRIOT? How could the library have the info, it's SOP to *not* keep the info, as I said. Most libraries wouldn't dare keep the info, if other librarians found out about it there would be all sorts of nastiness. A library director of a library that kept that sort of info would be destroying his own career if he expected to go anywhere else. And I think cooperating with the feebs would do likewise. Nobody really believes the gov't anymore -- Asscruft would be spat upon if he entered most libraries. I think at this point most educated people recognize the Un-Patriot act for what it is - the USA Fascist Manifesto. There's lots of people in libraries who have no doubt at all that 9/11 was engineered by the CIA to give the military the pretext to invade Afghanistan and regain control of the opium market. That's what the "War on Some Terror" is all about, that and another big domestic power grab by the feebs, just like the "War on Some Drugs." -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com From offshore at offshore-auction-info.com Tue Jun 25 18:41:00 2002 From: offshore at offshore-auction-info.com (offshore at offshore-auction-info.com) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 20:41:00 -0500 Subject: Thank you so much for your questions and response. Message-ID: <200206260140.g5Q1exQF002630@ak47.algebra.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4900 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jon at callas.org Tue Jun 25 20:57:09 2002 From: jon at callas.org (Jon Callas) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 20:57:09 -0700 Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: <200206251115.HAA3018467@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: On 6/25/02 4:15 AM, "Dan Geer" wrote: > Over the last six months, I'd discovered that Carl Ellison (Intel), > Joan Feigenbaum (Yale) and I agreed on at least one thing: that the > problem statements for "privacy" and for "digital rights management" > were identical, viz., "controlled release of information is yours at > a distance in space or time" and that as such our choices for the > future of digital rights management and privacy are "both or neither" > at least insofar as technology, rather than cultural norms & law, > drive. I think it even goes further than that. I was giving one of my DMCA-vs-Security talks while l'affaire Sklyarov was roiling, and noted that while that was going on, the US was being testy with China over alleged espionage by US nationals while in China. At a high level, each of infringement and espionage can be described as: Alice gives Bob some information. Bob is careless with it, disclosing it to someone that Alice would rather not see it. Alice has a non-linear response. You can call it infringement or you can call it espionage, but at the bottom of it, Alice believes that a private communication has been inappropriately disclosed. She thinks her privacy has been compromised and she's stomping angry about it. At the risk of creating a derivative work, you say pr-eye-vacy, I say pr-ih-vacy. Infringement, espionage, let's call the whole thing off. Jon --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From jayh at 1st.net Tue Jun 25 18:32:30 2002 From: jayh at 1st.net (jayh at 1st.net) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 21:32:30 -0400 Subject: "Terror Reading" In-Reply-To: <20020625194945.A62894@lightship.internal.homeport.org> References: <20020625215610.GA14759@cybershamanix.com>; from hseaver@cybershamanix.com on Tue, Jun 25, 2002 at 04:56:10PM -0500 Message-ID: <3D18E16E.17422.1110CE@localhost> On 25 Jun 2002 at 19:49, Adam Shostack wrote: The USA PATRIOT act forbids a library from talking > about it. Thats why point 12 of the recent House Judiciary committee > letter to Ashcroft asks about libraries. hmmmm... does that mean the by declaring that his library does not have than info, and thus has not provided info to the feds, is that declaration in itself a violation of USA PATRIOT? J From 9als3ebook at yahoo.com Wed Jun 26 10:00:16 2002 From: 9als3ebook at yahoo.com (9als3ebook at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 22:00:16 -1900 Subject: You need this 14148 Message-ID: <00001d7a3646$00003738$00005f50@.> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2161 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jsd at monmouth.com Tue Jun 25 19:21:36 2002 From: jsd at monmouth.com (John S. Denker) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 22:21:36 -0400 Subject: privacy <> digital rights management References: <200206251115.HAA3018467@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <3D192530.2574154D@monmouth.com> Dan Geer wrote: > > Over the last six months, I'd discovered that Carl Ellison (Intel), > Joan Feigenbaum (Yale) and I agreed on at least one thing: that the > problem statements for "privacy" and for "digital rights management" > were identical, ... > ... YMMV. Uhhh, my mileage varies rather considerably. Perhaps we are using wildly divergent notions of "privacy" -- or wildly divergent notions of "identical". DRM has to do mainly with protecting certain rights to _published_ material. Private material is not "identical" with published material -- it is more opposite than identical. Private material is, according to the usual definitions, in the hands of persons who have a common interest in keeping the information private and restricted. Published material, in contrast, is in the hands of persons who have no interest in keeping it private, and indeed commonly have an interest in defeating whatever restrictions are in place. We have thousands of years of experience with military crypto, where the parties at both ends of the conversation are highly motivated to restrict the flow of private information. The current state of this technology is very robust. Ending about 20 years ago we had a 500-year era where it was not practical for anyone except an established publisher to infringe copyrights in a big way. During this era, Rights Management had essentially nothing to do with crypto; it mainly had to do with the economics of printing presses and radio transmitters, supplemented by copyright laws that were more-or-less enforceable. This era was killed by analog means (widespread photocopy machines) and the corpse was pulverized by digital means (widespread computers and networking). I repeat: The main features of our experience with Privacy Management are disjoint from the main features of our experience with Publishers' Rights Management. They are about as different as different can be. The record is replete with spectacular failures attributable to non-understanding of the difference. --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From rlmorgan at washington.edu Wed Jun 26 00:59:22 2002 From: rlmorgan at washington.edu (RL 'Bob' Morgan) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 00:59:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: <200206251115.HAA3018467@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Jun 2002, Dan Geer wrote: > the problem statements for "privacy" and for "digital rights management" > were identical Hmm, so: privacy : DRM :: wiretapping : fair use - RL "Bob" --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From awkaamaka at gotmail.com Wed Jun 26 01:04:45 2002 From: awkaamaka at gotmail.com (AWKA AMAKA) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 01:04:45 Subject: URGENT ASSISTANCE Message-ID: <200206260006.TAA27913@einstein.ssz.com> DEAR SIR, REQUEST FOR HUMBLE ASSISTANCE. This letter is meant to contact you following knowledge of your esteemed self to help us out of this difficult situation that my family has been engulfed in since the death of my father and the breadwinner of our family. So please, consider this as a request from a family in dare need of assistance. I am Awka Amaka from Angola, the first and the only son of late Brigadier Luis Amaka communicating to you from Johannesburg, Republic of South Africa. I, on behalf of my family decided to solicit for your Assistance to transfer the sum of US$25.5milloin (twenty five million five hundred thousand united state dollars) inherited from my late father into your company or private bank account. Before the death of my father, he was a brigadier in charge of arms and ammunition procurement for the Angolan army. In his will, he specifically drew my attention to the sum of US$25.5million that he deposited in the safe box of a private security company in Johannesburg, South Africa. In fact he said and I quote, "My beloved son, I wish to draw your attention to the sum of US$25.5 million. I deposited the box containing the fund in a security company in Johannesburg, South Africa as valuables. During the war, I was very dedicated and committed to wining the war against the rebels until when I found out that senior army officers and government functionaries were busy helping themselves with government funds and properties sending them to foreign countries. Due to this, when I and former special adviser to the president were assigned by the president (Jose Eduardo Santos) to purchase arms in South Africa, we saw this as an opportunity to divert the money for our personal use and shared it, of which I got a total sum of US$25.5million. I did this in case of my absence due to death so that you Vincent, your two sisters Grace and Anne and your mother wouldn't suffer. You should solicit for assistance of a reliable and sincere foreign partner to assist you to transfer this money out of South Africa for investment. I deposited the box in your name and you can claim it alone with the deposit code. Your mother is with all the documents; take good care of your mother and your two sisters. Do not disappoint me! Good bye". After the burial of my father, we decided to move to South Africa where this money was deposited and withdraw it and put to use and was disappointed to learn that it is against the human Right law SECTION22 OF THE REFUGEES ACT NO 130 OF 1998 that asylum seekers in the country do not have the right to operate a bank account or operate an enterprise in the country. After much consideration, we arrived at conclusion that it will be of interest for us to contact a foreign partner to assist us transfer this money out of South Africa. From these words of my late father, you will understand that the lives and future of my family depend on this fund as such I will be grateful if you can assist us. Now what I will like you to do for us, as a foreign partner is to help us clear this fund from the Security Company using your name as the beneficiary of the fund. For your efforts, we are prepared to offer you 20% of the total sum while 10% will be set aside for expenses Incurred during the course of this transaction and the remaining 70% for the family's investment abroad which you will assist us to materialize. Please note that this transaction is risk-free and the major thing I ask from you is to assure me the safety of the money when transferred to your account. Your utmost trust, sincerity and confidentiality is highly needed in this transaction. Be kind to provide me with your private communication facilities for smooth and confidential link. Further information and arrangement will commence as soon as trust, confidence and good relationship is established. I shall be most grateful if you maintain the confidentiality of this matter. Should this meet your utmost consideration, please give me your earliest reply through my email address. Best regards, AWKA AMAKA From bill.stewart at pobox.com Wed Jun 26 01:09:53 2002 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 01:09:53 -0700 Subject: "Terror Reading" In-Reply-To: <009f01c21c8f$06a56980$6501a8c0@josephas> References: <200206251850.g5PIoBP28513@artifact.psychedelic.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.1.20020626010145.02a21248@idiom.com> At 02:23 PM 06/25/2002 -0700, Joseph Ashwood wrote: >I can tell you that at least in some areas that is simply not the case. I >have personal experience with the San Jose City library and know this for a >fact to be incorrect. They store information since the last upgrade of the >central database, currently the better part of a decade, but coming up on a >cycle point. Although it is very difficult to get the information, and large >portions of even that have been lost through various issues. It's been almost ten years since I was in the Keyport NJ library, but I'd be surprised if they've computerized their recordkeeping. If you wanted to see who'd checked out a given book that was on the shelf, you'd look at the card in the back and see the library card numbers of the people who'd checked it out, and they might have had dates as well. To find which 3 or 4 digit number corresponded to which person, it'd depend on whether they took their library card home with them the last time they'd returned books or left it at the library (mine might still be there?), and if they currently had books out, it was definitely at the library. If they took the card home, they had privacy, though the librarian often did know her regular customers by sight. They might have computer records for books they got on interlibrary loan, but that'd be about it - no sense in spending money on computerizing when old-fashioned card catalogs worked well enough for the speed at which they acquired books. On the other hand, any place that does computerize finds it almost as easy to keep records permanently as not, and it's certainly easier to centralize records and make them searchable. From SGuthery at mobile-mind.com Tue Jun 25 22:31:34 2002 From: SGuthery at mobile-mind.com (Scott Guthery) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 01:31:34 -0400 Subject: Ross's TCPA paper Message-ID: <177EEB93DEA5D4119B4800508BE753D22E7ECD@FS1> Privacy abuse is first and foremost the failure of a digital rights management system. A broken safe is not evidence that banks shouldn't use safes. It is only an argument that they shouldn't use the safe than was broken. I'm hard pressed to imagine what privacy without DRM looks like. Perhaps somebody can describe a non-DRM privacy management system. On the other hand, I easily can imagine how I'd use DRM technology to manage my privacy. Yes, it would be nice if we didn't need safes but until we don't, I'll use one. You can choose not to use DRM to manage your privacy but like stacking your money on your front porch, you don't get to grump if people take it. It's called contributory negligance, I believe. Cheers, Scott -----Original Message----- From: Ross Anderson To: Dan Geer Cc: cryptography at wasabisystems.com; cypherpunks at lne.com; Ross.Anderson at cl.cam.ac.uk; Ross.Anderson at cl.cam.ac.uk Sent: 6/25/02 11:56 AM Subject: Re: Ross's TCPA paper I don't believe that the choice is both privacy and TCPA, or neither. Essentially all privacy violations are abuses of authorised access by insiders. Your employer's medical insurance scheme insists on a waiver allowing them access to your records, which they then use for promotion decisions. The fizx is fundamentally legislative: that sort of behaviour is generally illegal in Europe, but tolerated in the USA. There may be symmetry when we consider the problem as theoretical computer scientists might, as an issue for abstract machines. This symmetry breaks rapidly when the applications are seen in context. As well as the legal aspects, there are also the economic aspects: most security systems promote the interests of the people who pay for them (surprise, surprise). So I do not agree with the argument that we must allow DRM in order to get privacy. Following that line brings us to a world in which we have DRM, but where the privacy abuses persist just as before. There is simply no realistic prospect of American health insurers or HMOs settling for one-time read-only access to your medical records, no matter how well that gets implemented in Palladium Ross --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From zenadsl6186 at zen.co.uk Tue Jun 25 20:05:30 2002 From: zenadsl6186 at zen.co.uk (Peter Fairbrother) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 04:05:30 +0100 Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ross Anderson wrote: > I don't believe that the choice is both privacy and TCPA, or neither. Neither do I. > There may be symmetry when we consider the problem as theoretical > computer scientists might, as an issue for abstract machines. If one-way functions exist there is no such symmetry. While in theory such functions cannot be proved to exist, in practice they are used a lot in crypto etc. -- Peter Fairbrother From jayh at 1st.net Wed Jun 26 02:43:36 2002 From: jayh at 1st.net (jayh at 1st.net) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 05:43:36 -0400 Subject: "Terror Reading" In-Reply-To: <3D191A68.7010005@cybershamanix.com> Message-ID: <3D195488.13583.121E8E@localhost> My comment was basically a musing, but nonetheless technically since it is a crime to reveal that the feds have gotten information, it would seem that declaring that they have not provided information is in itself a declaration about fed activity and so covered. You are right, that librarians are upset. However the situation is such that librarians have been specifically warned that if they call the ALA about such a visit, they cannot say anything in their conversation that they are calling in regards to such a request. The most they are allowed to say in such phone conversations is that they would like to talk to a lawyer. This is a very bad precedent. j On 25 Jun 2002 at 20:35, Harmon Seaver wrote: > > hmmmm... does that mean the by declaring that his library does not have than info, > > and thus has not provided info to the feds, is that declaration in itself a violation of > > USA PATRIOT? > > > How could the library have the info, it's SOP to *not* keep the > info, as I said. Most libraries wouldn't dare keep the info, if other > librarians found out about it there would be all sorts of nastiness. A > library director of a library that kept that sort of info would be > destroying his own career if he expected to go anywhere else. And I > think cooperating with the feebs would do likewise. > Nobody really believes the gov't anymore -- Asscruft would be spat > upon if he entered most libraries. I think at this point most educated > people recognize the Un-Patriot act for what it is - the USA Fascist > Manifesto. There's lots of people in libraries who have no doubt at all > that 9/11 was engineered by the CIA to give the military the pretext to > invade Afghanistan and regain control of the opium market. That's what > the "War on Some Terror" is all about, that and another big domestic > power grab by the feebs, just like the "War on Some Drugs." > > > > -- > Harmon Seaver > CyberShamanix > http://www.cybershamanix.com > > From bela at ix.netcom.com Wed Jun 26 03:48:17 2002 From: bela at ix.netcom.com (bela at ix.netcom.com) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 05:48:17 -0500 Subject: Cypherpunks, new site for you! Message-ID: <200206261048.g5QAmHQF017359@ak47.algebra.com> Hi Cypherpunks ! We have incest of all kinds: Daddy - Daughter, Mommy - Son, Mommy - Daughter, Brother - Sister, Sister - Sister, Daddy - Son, Brother - Brother... 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You can do this by checking out our site at: http://www.abc-holdings.info/spc/indexpage.html In addition, you will have the opportunity to participate in a free trial program to test the effectiveness of our product, IN YOUR OWN SYSTEM. Please check us out. Thank you. Sincerely, SPC P.S. Remember, you must click on this link to receive this helpful information! http://www.abc-holdings.info/spc/indexpage.html From MAILER-DAEMON at mail.hal-pc.org Wed Jun 26 04:36:09 2002 From: MAILER-DAEMON at mail.hal-pc.org (MAILER-DAEMON at mail.hal-pc.org) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 06:36:09 -0500 Subject: You need this 14148 In-Reply-To: <00001d7a3646$00003738$00005f50@.> Message-ID: The domain home.com no longer accepts email. If you are trying to email someone with an @home.com email address you should contact them by other means to get their new email address. --- From internetsecurity at 371.net Wed Jun 26 16:59:30 2002 From: internetsecurity at 371.net (Cliff) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 06:59:30 -1700 Subject: Protect Your Computer! Message-ID: <00004a077760$00002609$00002042@263.net> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4498 bytes Desc: not available URL: From hseaver at cybershamanix.com Wed Jun 26 05:21:33 2002 From: hseaver at cybershamanix.com (Harmon Seaver) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 07:21:33 -0500 Subject: "Terror Reading" In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.1.20020626010145.02a21248@idiom.com> References: <200206251850.g5PIoBP28513@artifact.psychedelic.net> <5.1.1.6.1.20020626010145.02a21248@idiom.com> Message-ID: <20020626122133.GA15293@cybershamanix.com> On Wed, Jun 26, 2002 at 01:09:53AM -0700, Bill Stewart wrote: > It's been almost ten years since I was in the Keyport NJ library, > but I'd be surprised if they've computerized their recordkeeping. > If you wanted to see who'd checked out a given book > that was on the shelf, you'd look at the card in the back and > see the library card numbers of the people who'd checked it out, > and they might have had dates as well. To find which 3 or 4 digit number > corresponded to which person, it'd depend on whether they took their > library card home with them the last time they'd returned books > or left it at the library (mine might still be there?), > and if they currently had books out, it was definitely at the library. > If they took the card home, they had privacy, though the librarian > often did know her regular customers by sight. > They might have computer records for books they got on interlibrary loan, > but that'd be about it - no sense in spending money on computerizing > when old-fashioned card catalogs worked well enough for the speed at > which they acquired books. You'd probably be surprised then, because I'd bet it has been computerized. In WI and MN at least, even the tiniest libraries are on line. It came about because of laws mandating that all public libraries belong to a library consortium, and the consortiums run the centralized databases. If they don't join the consortium, they can't get state funding, and since most libraries are strapped for cash, they join. And the computer revolution has been going on in libraries for a decade now -- I can recall libraries where the staff was terrified of computers, but most of those people either got on board or retired. I'm sure there are non-computerized libraries in backwards states like AL or MS, where they don't even fund the public schools, let alone libraries, but NJ? Hardly. > > On the other hand, any place that does computerize finds it almost as easy > to keep records permanently as not, and it's certainly easier to centralize > records and make them searchable. It's a matter of policy not to keep records, that, and the fact that library software comes with that turned off by default. In some cases I think it would take custom programming to turn it on. And in most cases, since most systems librarians are not really computer gurus and rely heavily on outside consultants, they would have to call the software manufacturer or an outside consultant to help them figure out how to turn on the retention of patron records after the books is checked back in. And then explain to them *why* they would want to do such a nasty thing. And, as I said, there would be immediate outrage on the part of the other librarians with much shouting and wailing and demands for explanations, and demands that it be turned off. I think most people don't realize what strong civil libertarians most librarians are -- and how much privacy and freedom of speech is stressed in library administration and library schools. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com From xmailer at yahoo.com Tue Jun 25 17:52:35 2002 From: xmailer at yahoo.com (xmailer at yahoo.com) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 08:52:35 +0800 Subject: =?GB2312?B?ufq8yry2vq3TqrncwO3Wx7vbo6HE+rXE0aHU8aOsztLDx7XEyrnD/KOh?= Message-ID: <200206260053.g5Q0rAE60583@locust.minder.net> 占쏙옙占심뱄옙占쎌돔占싯∽옙占쏙옙羚占쏙옙占�: 占쏙옙占쎌데貫占쏙옙占쏙옙占쏙옙占싻뀐옙占쏙옙占쏙옙祇占쏙옙占쌨뱄옙鱇 占쏙옙占썸데貫占쏙옙占쏙옙占쏙옙橘占쏙옙占쏙옙킵占싼띰옙占쏙옙占쏙옙占� 占쏙옙占심뱄옙占쎌돔占싯∽옙占쏙옙羚占쏙옙 占쏙옙占싻듸옙貫占쏙옙占쏙옙占쏙옙橘占쏙옙占쏙옙킵占싼띰옙占쏙옙占쏙옙占� 占쏙옙占쏙옙占싻뀐옙占쏙옙占쏙옙祇占쏙옙占쌨뱄옙鱇 占쏙옙占쏙옙占쏙옙�ワ옙占쏙옙橘占쏙옙硫占쌓ⓚ�占쌘뱄옙占십억옙檀占쏙옙占쏙옙占실쁜듸옙淚撚첵占썲。 占쏙옙占심뱄옙占쎌돔占싯∽옙占쏙옙羚占쏙옙占쏙옙占쏙옙2001占쏙옙2占승ｏ옙占쏙옙寧占쌥뀐옙占시뱄옙占쏙옙占쏙옙占싻곤옙駕占쏙옙占신ｏ옙占쏙옙占쏙옙占쏙옙占쏙옙�뱄옙占쏙옙却 占쏙옙淚撚占쏙옙占승울옙占쏙옙占쏙옙占쏙옙占쏙옙占쏙옙占쏙옙占쌤듸옙占쏙옙占쏙옙占쏙옙占쏙옙占쌓뀐옙캤胄�ｏ옙占쏙옙占쏙옙占실똑∽옙홍占쏙옙貫占쏙옙占쏙옙占쌌믐억옙�뱄옙占쏙옙 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From schear at lvcm.com Wed Jun 26 09:49:53 2002 From: schear at lvcm.com (Steve Schear) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 09:49:53 -0700 Subject: "Terror Reading" In-Reply-To: References: <20020626122133.GA15293@cybershamanix.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020626094321.05ee8e18@pop3.lvcm.com> At 10:48 AM 6/26/2002 -0400, Kathleen Dolan wrote: >In many states, it is illegal to store records showing who borrowed a >book from a public library. Maryland, for example, requires destruction of >the record after a point and even backups cannot be accessed without a >court order. > >KAD Say a public library implements a policy of replying positively to all such inquiries, that is, if asked by a patron the db admin will tell them when their account is free of such inquiries. If a request does come in then the db admin can either: fail to respond (monitoring implied), tell them they are being monitored (violating the law) or lie and say they are not even if they are. So, can the Feds require a librarian to lie to a customer who inquires whether their library usage is being monitored? steve From dee3 at torque.pothole.com Wed Jun 26 06:51:58 2002 From: dee3 at torque.pothole.com (Donald Eastlake 3rd) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 09:51:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: privacy <> digital rights management In-Reply-To: <3D192530.2574154D@monmouth.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Jun 2002, John S. Denker wrote: > Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 22:21:36 -0400 > From: John S. Denker > To: Dan Geer , cryptography at wasabisystems.com, > cypherpunks at lne.com, Ross.Anderson at cl.cam.ac.uk > Subject: Re: privacy <> digital rights management > > Dan Geer wrote: > > > > Over the last six months, I'd discovered that Carl Ellison (Intel), > > Joan Feigenbaum (Yale) and I agreed on at least one thing: that the > > problem statements for "privacy" and for "digital rights management" > > were identical, > ... > > ... YMMV. > > Uhhh, my mileage varies rather considerably. Perhaps we are using > wildly divergent notions of "privacy" -- or wildly divergent > notions of "identical". > > DRM has to do mainly with protecting certain rights to _published_ > material. Private material is not "identical" with published > material -- it is more opposite than identical. The spectrum from 2 people knowing something to 2 billion knowing something is pretty smooth and continuous. Both DRM and privacy have to do with controlling material after you have released it to someone who might wish to pass it on further against your wishes. There is little *tehcnical* difference between your doctors records being passed on to assorted insurance companies, your boss, and/or tabloid newspapers and the latest Disney movies being passed on from a country where it has been released to people/theaters in a country where it has not been released. > Private material is, according to the usual definitions, in the hands > of persons who have a common interest in keeping the information > private and restricted. The only case where all holders of information always have a common interest is where the number of holder is one. > Published material, in contrast, is in the > hands of persons who have no interest in keeping it private, and > indeed commonly have an interest in defeating whatever restrictions > are in place. "Privacy", according to the usual definitions, involve controlling the spread of information by persons autorized to have it. Contrast with secrecy which primarily has to do with stopping the spread of information through the actions of those not authorized to have it. > We have thousands of years of experience with military crypto, where > the parties at both ends of the conversation are highly motivated to > restrict the flow of private information. The current state of this > technology is very robust. That's secrecy technology, not privacy technology. > Ending about 20 years ago we had a 500-year era where it was not > practical for anyone except an established publisher to infringe > copyrights in a big way. During this era, Rights Management had > essentially nothing to do with crypto; it mainly had to do with > the economics of printing presses and radio transmitters, supplemented > by copyright laws that were more-or-less enforceable. This era > was killed by analog means (widespread photocopy machines) and > the corpse was pulverized by digital means (widespread computers > and networking). Sure, you can't have either privacy or DRM with plain paper texts or plaintext digital data on untrusted hardware. That's pretty obvious. A xerographic copier works just as well on a "private" handwritten letter as it does on a mass produced printed page. And if you want to argue that total privacy and DRM are unobtainable because anyone knowing something in their mind can trasnmit it in plain text, sure. But that does not mean that, at least in principal, it is impossible to achieve "technical privacy" thorugh crypto and trusted hardware where the information can not be improperly passed on by an authorized holder other than via their mind. > I repeat: The main features of our experience with Privacy Management > are disjoint from the main features of our experience with Publishers' > Rights Management. They are about as different as different can be. > The record is replete with spectacular failures attributable to > non-understanding of the difference. You are confusing privacy with secrecy and are confusing accidental/historic differences between privacy and DRM with their essential techncial identity. Donald --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From xmailer at yahoo.com Tue Jun 25 18:56:09 2002 From: xmailer at yahoo.com (xmailer at yahoo.com) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 09:56:09 +0800 Subject: =?GB2312?B?ufq8yry2vq3TqrncwO3Wx7vbo6HE+rXE0aHU8aOsztLDx7XEyrnD/KOh?= Message-ID: <200206260156.g5Q1uiE63646@locust.minder.net> 占쏙옙占심뱄옙占쎌돔占싯∽옙占쏙옙羚占쏙옙占�: 占쏙옙占쎌데貫占쏙옙占쏙옙占쏙옙占싻뀐옙占쏙옙占쏙옙祇占쏙옙占쌨뱄옙鱇 占쏙옙占썸데貫占쏙옙占쏙옙占쏙옙橘占쏙옙占쏙옙킵占싼띰옙占쏙옙占쏙옙占� 占쏙옙占심뱄옙占쎌돔占싯∽옙占쏙옙羚占쏙옙 占쏙옙占싻듸옙貫占쏙옙占쏙옙占쏙옙橘占쏙옙占쏙옙킵占싼띰옙占쏙옙占쏙옙占� 占쏙옙占쏙옙占싻뀐옙占쏙옙占쏙옙祇占쏙옙占쌨뱄옙鱇 占쏙옙占쏙옙占쏙옙�ワ옙占쏙옙橘占쏙옙硫占쌓ⓚ�占쌘뱄옙占십억옙檀占쏙옙占쏙옙占실쁜듸옙淚撚첵占썲。 占쏙옙占심뱄옙占쎌돔占싯∽옙占쏙옙羚占쏙옙占쏙옙占쏙옙2001占쏙옙2占승ｏ옙占쏙옙寧占쌥뀐옙占시뱄옙占쏙옙占쏙옙占싻곤옙駕占쏙옙占신ｏ옙占쏙옙占쏙옙占쏙옙占쏙옙�뱄옙占쏙옙却 占쏙옙淚撚占쏙옙占승울옙占쏙옙占쏙옙占쏙옙占쏙옙占쏙옙占쏙옙占쌤듸옙占쏙옙占쏙옙占쏙옙占쏙옙占쌓뀐옙캤胄�ｏ옙占쏙옙占쏙옙占실똑∽옙홍占쏙옙貫占쏙옙占쏙옙占쌌믐억옙�뱄옙占쏙옙 却占식뤄옙�ｏ옙占쌤쏙옙決占쏙옙占싱븝옙占쏙옙占쏙옙占식듸옙呵占쏙옙占쌓ｏ옙占쏙옙占쏙옙占쏙옙撚占심뱄옙占쏙옙却占써묩茄占쏙옙占쏙옙槻占쏙옙占쏙옙占쏙옙占쏙옙占쌩뤄옙占쏙옙槁占� 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From bear at sonic.net Wed Jun 26 10:01:00 2002 From: bear at sonic.net (bear) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 10:01:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: <177EEB93DEA5D4119B4800508BE753D22E7ECD@FS1> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Jun 2002, Scott Guthery wrote: >Privacy abuse is first and foremost the failure >of a digital rights management system. A broken >safe is not evidence that banks shouldn't use >safes. It is only an argument that they shouldn't >use the safe than was broken. > >I'm hard pressed to imagine what privacy without >DRM looks like. Perhaps somebody can describe >a non-DRM privacy management system. On the other >hand, I easily can imagine how I'd use DRM >technology to manage my privacy. You are fundamentally confusing the problem of privacy (controlling unpublished information and not being compelled to publish it) with the problem of DRM (attempting to control published information and compelling others to refrain from sharing it). Privacy does not require anyone to be compelled against their will to do anything. DRM does. As I see it, we can get either privacy or DRM, but there is no way on Earth to get both. Privacy can happen only among citizens who are free to manage their information and DRM can happen only among subjects who may be compelled to disclose or abandon information against their will. Privacy without DRM is when you don't need anyone's permission to run any software on your computer. Privacy without DRM is when you are absolutely free to do anything you want with any bits in your posession, but people can keep you from *getting* bits private to them into your posession. Privacy without DRM means being able to legally keep stuff you don't want published to yourself, even if that means using pseudonymous or anonymous transactions for non-fraudulent purposes. Privacy without DRM means being able to simply, instantly, and arbitrarily change legal identities to get out from under extant privacy infringements, and not have the new identity easily linkable to the old. Privacy without DRM means people being able to create keys for cryptosystems and use them in complete confidence that no one else has a key that will decrypt the communication -- this is fundamental to keeping private information private. Privacy without DRM means no restrictions whatsoever on usable crypto in the hands of citizens. It may be a crime to withhold any stored keys when under a subpeona, but that subpeona should issue only when there is probable cause to believe that you have committed a crime or are withholding information about one, and you should *ALWAYS* be notified of the issue within 30 days. It also means that keys which are in your head rather than stored somewhere are not subject to subpeona -- on fifth amendment grounds (in the USA) if the record doesn't exist outside your head, then you cannot be coerced to produce it. Privacy without DRM means being able to keep and do whatever you want with the records your business creates -- but not being able to force someone to use their real name or linkable identity information to do business with you if that person wants that information to remain private. Bear --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From fabricehalimi at aol.com Wed Jun 26 01:46:26 2002 From: fabricehalimi at aol.com (VOTRE SITE ...) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 10:46:26 +0200 Subject: CIBLEZ ET DEMARCHEZ GRATUITEMENT VOS PROSPECTS PAR CENTAINES DE MILLIERS Message-ID: <200206260848.g5Q8lwQF007046@ak47.algebra.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 9006 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kdolan at dgs.dgsys.com Wed Jun 26 07:48:36 2002 From: kdolan at dgs.dgsys.com (Kathleen Dolan) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 10:48:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: "Terror Reading" In-Reply-To: <20020626122133.GA15293@cybershamanix.com> Message-ID: In many states, it is illegal to store records showing who borrowed a book from a public library. Maryland, for example, requires destruction of the record after a point and even backups cannot be accessed without a court order. KAD On Wed, 26 Jun 2002, Harmon Seaver wrote: > On Wed, Jun 26, 2002 at 01:09:53AM -0700, Bill Stewart wrote: > > It's been almost ten years since I was in the Keyport NJ library, > > but I'd be surprised if they've computerized their recordkeeping. > > If you wanted to see who'd checked out a given book > > that was on the shelf, you'd look at the card in the back and > > see the library card numbers of the people who'd checked it out, > > and they might have had dates as well. To find which 3 or 4 digit number > > corresponded to which person, it'd depend on whether they took their > > library card home with them the last time they'd returned books > > or left it at the library (mine might still be there?), > > and if they currently had books out, it was definitely at the library. > > If they took the card home, they had privacy, though the librarian > > often did know her regular customers by sight. > > They might have computer records for books they got on interlibrary loan, > > but that'd be about it - no sense in spending money on computerizing > > when old-fashioned card catalogs worked well enough for the speed at > > which they acquired books. > > You'd probably be surprised then, because I'd bet it has been > computerized. In WI and MN at least, even the tiniest libraries are on line. It > came about because of laws mandating that all public libraries belong to a > library consortium, and the consortiums run the centralized databases. If they > don't join the consortium, they can't get state funding, and since most > libraries are strapped for cash, they join. And the computer revolution has been > going on in libraries for a decade now -- I can recall libraries where the staff > was terrified of computers, but most of those people either got on board or > retired. I'm sure there are non-computerized libraries in backwards states like > AL or MS, where they don't even fund the public schools, let alone libraries, > but NJ? Hardly. > > > > > On the other hand, any place that does computerize finds it almost as easy > > to keep records permanently as not, and it's certainly easier to centralize > > records and make them searchable. > > It's a matter of policy not to keep records, that, and the fact that library > software comes with that turned off by default. In some cases I think it would > take custom programming to turn it on. And in most cases, since most systems > librarians are not really computer gurus and rely heavily on outside > consultants, they would have to call the software manufacturer or an outside > consultant to help them figure out how to turn on the retention of patron > records after the books is checked back in. And then explain to them *why* they > would want to do such a nasty thing. And, as I said, there would be immediate > outrage on the part of the other librarians with much shouting and wailing and > demands for explanations, and demands that it be turned off. > > I think most people don't realize what strong civil libertarians most > librarians are -- and how much privacy and freedom of speech is stressed in > library administration and library schools. > > > -- > Harmon Seaver > CyberShamanix > http://www.cybershamanix.com > From hseaver at cybershamanix.com Wed Jun 26 09:10:17 2002 From: hseaver at cybershamanix.com (Harmon Seaver) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 11:10:17 -0500 Subject: "Terror Reading" In-Reply-To: <3D19DE27.9703626E@lsil.com> References: <3D19DE27.9703626E@lsil.com> Message-ID: <20020626161017.GC16059@cybershamanix.com> On Wed, Jun 26, 2002 at 09:30:47AM -0600, Michael Motyka wrote: > OK, so all that is needed is a collateral-based anonymous library card. > Required collateral could be based on the difficulty of replacement. > Priceless relics could require identity as collateral. Potboilers, > market price + shipping and handling. > Actually, I think it's a non-issue. Why would someone planning a bombing, let's say, check out a book from the library on explosives, when he could just read/copy it right there, totally anonymously. Of course, in the past when the fedzis wanted access to patron's records, it was more on the level of thought crime -- were they reading commie lit. Is that what they're after now -- whose reading Islamic texts? Put them on the list to be tortured. Also I just realized that if they allowed the fedzis access to the staff side of the database, so they could read the victim's records, they would then also have the ability to manufacture evidence, check out books in that person's name. > Worse than searching library records, of course, is the tracking of > internet reading habits. Exactly. And most ISPs don't have the moral backbone that librarians do, they all roll over without a wimper. I think the fedzis would have to be seriously stupid in the first place to even attempt to get libraries to spy on patrons -- there's far too many old '60s radicals in libraries who would love the opportunity to shout it from the rooftops, make a real cause out of it. It's totally absurd for the fedzis to think that they can tell anyone not to talk about it anyway -- there's no possibility that could pass constitutional muster. Are they going to start arresting citizens as "material witnesses" because they refuse to cooperate? That would go over real well. Maybe we should hope they do, all the better to get protestors out in the streets. It's pretty clear the courts are starting to really frown on the current fedzi power grab, as is congress. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com From Ted.Lemon at nominum.com Wed Jun 26 09:12:39 2002 From: Ted.Lemon at nominum.com (Ted Lemon) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 11:12:39 -0500 Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: <177EEB93DEA5D4119B4800508BE753D22E7ECD@FS1> Message-ID: <89894E18-891F-11D6-8479-00039367340A@nominum.com> > I'm hard pressed to imagine what privacy without > DRM looks like. Perhaps somebody can describe > a non-DRM privacy management system. On the other > hand, I easily can imagine how I'd use DRM > technology to manage my privacy. Oh please, this is absurd. How hard is it to violate my privacy? How much good does DRM do here? If you can't plug the analog hole for something as data-intensive as a DVD, how do you plug the analog hole for something as trivial as a social security number? I have to assume that what you're saying is that I will somehow use DRM to secure information that I give to a company with whom I want to do business. But this is unlikely ever to happen in any meaningful way - in order for this to work, the company with whom I am doing business has to have some incentive to implement DRM. The incentive can't be that I refuse to do business with them if they don't, because most people *do not* refuse to do business with companies that violate their privacy. Indeed, in many cases, we have no choice - if you want water, you sign up with the water department. If you want power, you sign up with the power company. There's no market there - these are monopolies. There's no opportunity for market leverage to impose DRM on them, even if the average person cared enough to make that happen, which they don't. I know this will come as a terrible blow to those who are morally against government coercion, and prefer the subtle coercion of the market, but if you want privacy, there's gotta be a law. And at that point, DRM for your personal information becomes something that I suspect is too expensive to be worth it. Do you keep all your money in a safe, or is some of it in a bank, or in a wallet, or in your dresser drawer? Why don't you keep all of it in a safe? --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From Pete.Chown at skygate.co.uk Wed Jun 26 03:54:19 2002 From: Pete.Chown at skygate.co.uk (Pete Chown) Date: 26 Jun 2002 11:54:19 +0100 Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: <200206251536.g5PFa2T22804@samsara.law.cwru.edu> References: <200206251536.g5PFa2T22804@samsara.law.cwru.edu> Message-ID: <1025088860.9261.51.camel@yeltsin.mthink> Peter D. Junger wrote: > That isn't the reason why a click-through agreement isn't > enforceable---the agreement could, were it enforceable, validlly > forbid reverse engineering for any reason and that clause would > in most cases be upheld. Not in Europe though. EU directive 91/250/EEC "on the legal protection of computer programs" makes provision for reverse engineering for interoperability. In Britain this was incorporated into domestic law by the Copyright (Computer Programs) Regulations 1992: http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si1992/Uksi_19923233_en_1.htm See in particular s.50B(4) which the regulations added to the Copyright Designs and Patents Act 1988. > (And in the > actual case involving Linux and DVD players there was no > agreement not to circumvent the technological control measures > in DVD's; the case was based on the theory that the circumvention > violated the Digital Millenium Copyright Act.) The American cases were, but the European case of course wasn't. The DMCA doesn't apply over here, though we have something similar in the works. > > I think lawyers will hate this. > > I don't see why we should. We don't hate the law of gravity > or the law of large numbers. You should hate it. :-) It is appropriate for the legislature to decide which acts are restricted by copyright and which are not. The DMCA and similar legislation hands that right to private organisations. To some extent anti-trust law guards against the worst abuses, but it is more appropriate for the boundaries of copyright to be set by our "elected representatives". BTW, I have been thinking for a while about putting together a UK competition complaint about DVD region coding. No promises that anything will happen quickly. On the other hand, if people offer help (or just tell me that they think it is a worthwhile thing to do) it will probably move faster. -- Pete From rlmorgan at washington.edu Wed Jun 26 12:28:15 2002 From: rlmorgan at washington.edu (RL 'Bob' Morgan) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 12:28:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: privacy <> digital rights management In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Jun 2002, Donald Eastlake 3rd wrote: > "Privacy", according to the usual definitions, involve controlling the > spread of information by persons autorized to have it. Contrast with > secrecy which primarily has to do with stopping the spread of > information through the actions of those not authorized to have it. > > > We have thousands of years of experience with military crypto, where > > the parties at both ends of the conversation are highly motivated to > > restrict the flow of private information. The current state of this > > technology is very robust. > > That's secrecy technology, not privacy technology. I have seen "private" and "secret" defined in exactly the opposite fashion as regards keys: a "private" key is private because you never ever share it with anyone, whereas a "secret" (symmetric) key is a secret because you've told someone else and you expect them to not share it (in the sense of "can you keep a secret?"). Clearly there's not a common understanding of these simple words. Seems to me that Dan's mini-rant was referring to "privacy" in the sense you define it above (controlling spread of info already held by others). - RL "Bob" From pasward at shoshin.uwaterloo.ca Wed Jun 26 10:04:12 2002 From: pasward at shoshin.uwaterloo.ca (pasward at shoshin.uwaterloo.ca) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 13:04:12 -0400 Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: <200206251536.g5PFa2T22804@samsara.law.cwru.edu> References: <1024951516.21398.74.camel@yeltsin.mthink> <200206251536.g5PFa2T22804@samsara.law.cwru.edu> Message-ID: <15641.62476.320914.253885@sandrock.uwaterloo.ca> I'm slightly confused about this. My understanding of contract law is that five things are required to form a valid contract: offer and acceptance, mutual intent, consideration, capacity, and lawful intent. It seems to me that a click-through agreement is likely to fail on at least one, and possibly two of these requirements. First, it is doubtful that there is mutual intent. The average user doesn't even read the agreement, so there is hardly mutual intent. However, even if I accept mutual intent, it would be easy to argue that there is no capacity. I have four children under the age of seven. None of them have the legal capacity to form a contract. Three of them have the physical capacity to click a button. A corporation would therefore have to demonstrate that I and not they clicked on the agreement for the contract to be valid. As a side note, it seems that a corporation would actually have to demonstrate that I had seen and agreed to the thing and clicked acceptance. Prior to that point, I could reverse engineer, since there is no statement that I cannot reverse engineer agreed to. So what would happen if I reverse engineered the installation so that the agreement that was display stated that I could do what I liked with the software? Ok, so there would be no mutual intent, but on the other hand, there would also be no agreement on the click-through agreement either. Paul Peter D. Junger writes: > Pete Chown writes: > > : Anonymous wrote: > : > : > Furthermore, inherent to the TCPA concept is that the chip can in > : > effect be turned off. No one proposes to forbid you from booting a > : > non-compliant OS or including non-compliant drivers. > : > : Good point. At least I hope they don't. :-) > : > : > There is not even social opprobrium; look at how eager > : > everyone was to look the other way on the question of whether the DeCSS > : > reverse engineering violated the click-through agreement. > : > : Perhaps it did, but the licence agreement was unenforceable. It's > : clearly reverse engineering for interoperability (between Linux and DVD > : players) so the legal exemption applies. You can't escape the exemption > : by contract. Now, you might say that morally he should obey the > : agreement he made. My view is that there is a reason why this type of > : contract is unenforceable; you might as well take advantage of the > : exemption. > > That isn't the reason why a click-through agreement isn't > enforceable---the agreement could, were it enforceable, validlly > forbid reverse engineering for any reason and that clause would > in most cases be upheld. But, unless you buy your software from > the copyright owner, you own your copy of the software and > clicking on a so called agreement with the copyright owner > that you won't do certain things with your software is---or, > at least should be---as unenforceable as promise to your doctor > that you won't smoke another cigarette. The important point > is not, however, that click-through agreements are probably > unenforceable; the important point is that people---at least > those people who think that they own their own computers and > the software copies that they have purchased---generally > believe that they should be unenforceable. (And in the > actual case involving Linux and DVD players there was no > agreement not to circumvent the technological control measures > in DVD's; the case was based on the theory that the circumvention > violated the Digital Millenium Copyright Act.) > > : The prosecution was on some nonsense charge that amounted to him > : burgling his own house. A statute that was meant to penalise computer > : break-ins was used against someone who owned the computer that he broke > : into. > : > : > The TCPA allows you to do something that you can't do today: run your > : > system in a way which convinces the other guy that you will honor your > : > promises, that you will guard his content as he requires in exchange for > : > his providing it to you. > : > : Right, but it has an odd effect too. No legal system gives people > : complete freedom to contract. Suppose you really, really want to exempt > : a shop from liability if your new toaster explodes. You can't do it; > : the legal system does not give you the freedom to contract in that way. > : > : DRM, however, gives people complete freedom to make contracts about how > : they will deal with digital content. Under EU single market rules, a > : contract term to the effect that you could pass on your content to > : someone in the UK but not the rest of the EU is unenforceable. No > : problem for DRM though... > > I don't think that one should confuse contract limitations, or > limitations on enforceable contract limitations, with technological > limitations. There is nothing, for example, in any legal system that > forbids one from violating the law of gravity. > > One of the many problems with the use of the Digital Millenium > Copyright Act to enforce the technological control measures > in DVD's was that it was based on the rather weird theory > that it should be illegal to do something that someone > else tried, but failed, to make technologically impossible > to do. > > (Thus I am rather doubtful that Lessig's idea the everything is > code is useful for analytical, rather than rhetorical, purposes.) > > : I think lawyers will hate this. > > I don't see why we should. We don't hate the law of gravity > or the law of large numbers. > > -- > Peter D. Junger--Case Western Reserve University Law School--Cleveland, OH > EMAIL: junger at samsara.law.cwru.edu URL: http://samsara.law.cwru.edu > NOTE: junger at pdj2-ra.f-remote.cwru.edu no longer exists > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > The Cryptography Mailing List > Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul A.S. Ward, Assistant Professor Email: pasward at shoshin.uwaterloo.ca University of Waterloo pasward at computer.org Department of Computer Engineering Tel: +1 (519) 888-4567 ext.3127 Waterloo, Ontario Fax: +1 (519) 746-3077 Canada N2L 3G1 URL: http://shoshin.uwaterloo.ca/~pasward --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From fabricehalimi at aol.com Wed Jun 26 04:38:14 2002 From: fabricehalimi at aol.com (VOTRE SITE ...) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 13:38:14 +0200 Subject: LA ROLLS DES SITES POUR 750 EUROS AVEC SON INTERFACE DE MISE A JOUR Message-ID: <200206261139.g5QBdjQF019902@ak47.algebra.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 8174 bytes Desc: not available URL: From schear at lvcm.com Wed Jun 26 13:45:08 2002 From: schear at lvcm.com (Steve Schear) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 13:45:08 -0700 Subject: Police guard stabbed China Venture Capital chief In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020626134351.05f112e0@pop3.lvcm.com> At 09:43 PM 6/20/2002 -0400, R. A. Hettinga wrote: >http://biz.scmp.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/AppLogic+FTContentServer?pagename=SCMP/Printacopy&aid=ZZZ4WF9YG2D > > > > >Friday, June 21, 2002 >Police guard stabbed chief > >BEI HU > >The chairman of China Venture Capital, the firm at the centre of an alleged >5.4 billion yuan (about HK$5 billion) stock manipulation scheme in China, >has been placed under police protection in hospital after being stabbed in >Shenzhen on Tuesday. > >China Venture Capital was renamed Shenzhen Kondarl in October last year. > >Mainland media yesterday speculated whether the incident was linked to the >trial of eight defendants over the alleged rigging of the share price of >China Venture Capital between August 1999 and February 2000. These Chinese are obviously much further along in effective enforcement of criminal business behavior than the SEC and Congress. steve From ash at 2600.COM Wed Jun 26 10:59:06 2002 From: ash at 2600.COM (ash at 2600.COM) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 13:59:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: H2K2 panels announced - July 12-14 NYC Message-ID: Folks, H2K2 is the next in the line of New York City hackerconferences organized by volunteers and 2600. Panels of particular interest to this list might include "Crypto for the Masses," "Databases and Privacy," "Educating Lawmakers - Is It Possible?," and "Secure Telephony." Hope to see you all there. Registration closes at the end of the week! ------------------------------------------------------------------ TALKS/PANELS FOR H2K2 - 7/12-14/2002 - NYC - www.h2k2.net ------------------------------------------------------------------ Abuse of Authority Over the years, there have been many stories in the hacker world of law enforcement personnel who have abused their authority. Two of the more dramatic cases in recent memory both come out of Philadelphia. Many of us are already familiar with the horror story of Bernie S. who wound up in dangerous prisons for nearly a year all because the United States Secret Service had a vendetta against him. Then there is the case of ShapeShifter, 2600 layout artist, who was arrested at the Republican National Convention in 2000 (shortly after leading a panel on the RNC at H2K) and held on half a million dollars bail as if he were a terrorist mastermind - all because he had been targeted for speaking out in public. Hear the games the authorities play and how public education really can make a difference in putting an end to such abuse. Hosted by Bernie S. and ShapeShifter -------------------- Access Control Devices There are all kinds of access control devices that we come in contact with every day. They include such things as magnet readers, proximity card readers, fingerprint readers, camera systems, biometrics, and basic standard operating procedures for a business. This talk will be a comprehensive guide to what's out there. Hosted by Mike Glasser -------------------- The Argument Against Security Through Obscurity for the Non-Digital World In the world of networked computers, security through obscurity is generally ineffective. Hiding algorithms, protecting source code, and keeping procedures secret might be effective initially, but eventually the cloak of secrecy is penetrated. This talk will examine how security through obscurity is relied upon in the non-computerized world. When can security through obscurity work? What risk analysis should we use to examine the role of obscurity in the non-computerized world? The talk will present and examine the hypothesis that an "open source" mentality should be applied to security procedures for public places. This is a logical extension of the lesson in cryptanalysis - that no cryptographic method can be considered trustworthy until it has undergone a rigorous examination by qualified persons. Similarly, can we trust security procedures in the physical world designed, ostensibly, to protect the public if these procedures never undergo public scrutiny? Hosted by Greg Newby -------------------- Black Hat Bloc or How I Stopped Worrying About Corporations and Learned to Love the Hacker Class War Hackers must deal with governments and ultimately the corporations that wield most of the decision making power within them. Looking over the past few decades of hacker interaction with corporations, we notice some interesting trends in the two worlds that indicate strong influences of the corporate and hacker worlds on the other's ethics and culture, often only hinted at to the rest of the world via biased corporate PR machines in the form of broadcast and publishing media. Hacker posts to Bugtraq become resumes, hacker tech like BBSes and IRC become the technical implementations of every Internet startup's business plan, hackers testify in front of Congress to warn them of impending doom directly resulting in increased federal cybercrime funding, while piracy is accepted by governments and media (but not the public) as theft. Has hacking become the fast venture capitalist track to shiny gadgets that go fast and make noise, a la Slashdot? Should we ignore intellectual property legislation and treaties that are passed solely to make rich people richer? This talk takes a look at where hacker/corporate/government relationships have been, where they are now, and where they could be going - hopefully shedding some light on everyone's motivations along the way. Hosted by Gweeds -------------------- Bullies on the Net - The Ford and Nissan Cases We could fill the entire weekend with stories like these and we have no doubt there will be many more such tales in the years to come. With the help of agencies, corporations, treaties, and laws with acronyms like ICANN, WIPO, WTO, and the DMCA, the individual very often finds himself at the mercy of corporate giants with virtually unlimited funding - and seemingly unlimited power. Throughout it all however, there remains hope. Hear the story of Uzi Nissan, who is being sued by the Nissan Motor Company for daring to use his own name on the Internet. We'll also talk about how the Ford Motor Company sued 2600 - and lost. Hosted by Emmanuel Goldstein, Eric Grimm, and Uzi Nissan -------------------- Caller ID Spoofing A demonstration of how Caller ID works as well as methods that can be used to emulate and display spoofed Caller ID messages on Caller ID and Caller ID with Call Waiting boxes using a Bell 202 modem. Details on the technical aspects such as Caller ID protocol for both regular and Call Waiting Caller ID. If all goes well, you may actually see a live demonstration of spoofed Caller ID. Hosted by Lucky225 and Tray Smee -------------------- "The Conscience of a Hacker" Probably the most famous single essay about what it's like to be a hacker is "The Conscience of a Hacker" by The Mentor, written in 1986. It's been quoted all over the place, including the movie "Hackers." It remains one of the most inspirational pieces written about the hacker community and it's survived well over time. This year, we're pleased to have The Mentor himself give a reading of it and offer additional insight. -------------------- Crypto for the Masses This panel will approach cryptography from the perspective of enabling a 'digital world' where key social schemes are preserved -- personal identity, anonymity, and the right to privacy. We'll talk about the basic inner workings of cryptosystems, and discuss how they can be applied now to create and enforce cyber rights. We'll also discuss the hurdles faced by crypto and its adopters, and the public at large. We'll also learn just how crypto is being threatened and abused by certian global goons. -------------------- Cult of the Dead Cow Extravaganza This year, the megamerican computer hackers of patriotism, Cult of the Dead Cow, honor our country with "Hooray for America!" -- an all-star revue including the Anheuser-Busch Clydesdales, NASCAR champion Dingus McProstate, and the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders. Reid Fleming will give a thorough and thoroughly educational description of the history and symbology of the Great Seal (which you can find on the back side of a $1 bill). Grandmaster Ratte himself will lead the audience in a sustained chant of "U.S.A.! U.S.A.! U.S.A.!" Oh, and maybe there will be some new software too. -------------------- Databases and Privacy Once again, world renowned private eye Steve Rambam will enlighten and frighten attendees with the latest updates on the personal information that is out there about each and every one of us. Find out which databases contain the most invasive information and who has access to them, as well as what you can do to protect your privacy. There will also be a discussion on truth and accountability on the net as well as live demonstrations. -------------------- The DeCSS Story At our last conference, we were preparing to go on trial for daring to have the code to DeCSS on our web site. Quite a lot has happened since then. The public perception of entities like the MPAA and the RIAA has gone down the toilet as their true motives became apparent. We were the first in what will be a long line of courtroom battles to defend freedom of speech, fair use, and open source technology. While we lost the case and the subsequent appeal, we still somehow feel victorious. Find out why. Hosted by Emmanuel Goldstein, Robin Gross, and Ed Hernstadt -------------------- Digital Demonstrations: Criminal DDoS Attack or Cyber Sit-in? Being able to carry political opinions to the public by showing them on the street is a basic part of democratic rights. Nowadays, a steadily increasing part of our life takes place in cyberspace. Things which aren't happening in cyberspace will therefore get less and less public attention. How can protest be taken into the virtual realm? What strategies for "online demonstrations" have we seen so far? How about the ethical and legal dimensions? Who gets hurt? Host Maximillian Dornseif will present a new approach for conducting online demonstrations without adversely affecting other users on the net. -------------------- DMCA Legal Update Since we last met, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act has claimed more victims and been at the forefront of all kinds of legal action. We even had the first instance of a programmer being thrown into prison because of a program he wrote while in his native Russia! Hear the latest on the Dmitry Sklyarov case and others that the DMCA is responsible for as well as what is being done to put an end to it. Hosted by Mike Godwin, Eric Grimm, and Robin Gross -------------------- Educating Lawmakers - Is It Possible? Trying to educate Congress about technology is approximately as useful as teaching a pig to type. It doesn't work and you get one peeved pig. But there are sometimes ways to make a difference in law and policy circles without becoming a wholly owned tool of the Demopublican Party. A discussion with journalist Declan McCullagh and cryptologist Matt Blaze. -------------------- Everything you ever wanted to know about spying and did not know who to ask.... This is pure balls-out fun. Former spy Robert Steele will answer questions about any aspect of intelligence or counterintelligence, to include covert action in Central America, ECHELON, how and why we completely missed the warnings on bin Laden and 9/11, etc. This can be considered an extension of the H2K session, which lasted for hours. -------------------- Face Scanning Systems at Airports: Ready for Prime Time? A talk about the technical problems of face scanning systems being used at airports to pick out terrorists. Will these systems work like the promoters are claiming they will? Or will they fail to catch terrorists and instead turn our airports into round-up zones for petty criminals? Hosted by Richard M. Smith -------------------- "Freedom Downtime" A presentation of the 2600 documentary on the Free Kevin movement followed by a Q&A session with some of the key people involved in the making of the film. -------------------- Fun With 802.11b Would you be surprised if you could turn on your laptop anywhere in the city and find yourself on someone else's network? How about if you were able to connect to the Internet? Or see someone's private data go flying by? It's all possible and it happens all the time - all over the country. This panel will cover 802.11 wireless ethernet networking basics, as well as detecting and monitoring wireless networks with active and passive methods. Community free networks, custom antennas, and methods of securing wireless networks will also be covered. Hosted by dragorn -------------------- Fucking Up the Internet at ICANN: Global Control Through the Domain Name System and How to Escape Did you know that the entire Internet domain structure is controlled by a mysterious group called the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)? Andy Mueller-Maguhn, longtime member and spokesman of Germany's Chaos Computer Club and currently elected from European users to be on the board of ICANN, will explain the latest developments at ICANN and how the mixture of intellectual property and governmental interests affects the freedom of the Internet. Paul Garrin, founder of name.space and FREE.THE.MEDIA!, will talk about his initiatives to establish rights to access to the legacy ROOT.ZONE, from the historical antitrust action against Network Solutions in 1997 through the US Department of Commerce's IFWP process (the predecessor to ICANN), and Name.Space's $50,000.00 TLD application to ICANN in 2000 (ICANN kept the money and took three TLD's previously published by Name.Space). The question is raised: Is there hope for seeking fair access to the legacy ROOT.ZONE through due process or is it time to treat ICANN as "damage" and route around it? -------------------- Fun with Pirate Radio and Shortwave Too few people take the time to appreciate shortwave radio. Even fewer have the opportunity to appreciate pirate radio. Here's your chance to learn more about these fascinating subjects. Allan Weiner will talk about his days operating Radio New York International, a famous pirate station from the 80's that served the New York area before it was raided by federal authorities in international waters. (We have no idea how the feds got away with that.) Today Weiner operates shortwave station WBCQ - along with chief engineer Timtron - which serves nearly the entire western hemisphere from studios in Maine. Craig Harkins joins the panel to talk of his experiences operating Anteater Radio during much of the 90's from an 18-wheeler truck. He received international acclaim from listeners while consistently evading American and Canadian radio police. -------------------- GNU Radio: Free Software Radio Collides with Hollywood's Lawyers The GNU Radio project is building a platform for experimenting with software radios - systems where the actual waveforms received and transmitted are defined by software, not special purpose hardware. One of their projects is building an all-software ATSC (HDTV) receiver. An all-software free ATSC receiver would allow among other things the construction of the mother of all "personal video recorders." Think Tivo or Replay on steroids. The folks from the Broadcast Protection Discussion Group (BPDG) have other ideas. They'd like to lock up the cleartext signal and make sure that only members of their club would be allowed to build receivers, modulators, and storage devices for digital TV. A discussion of where this is all likely to head. Panel participants include GNU Radio technical folks Eric Blossom and Matt Ettus as well as representatives from the EFF. -------------------- Hacking for Community Radio The technical and political struggle to take back the airwaves for the community. A panel discussion about the attempt to build linux based free software that can stream broadcast quality audio over the Internet from a studio to a transmitter site. In addition, there will be discussion on attempts to use wireless ethernet to shoot broadcast quality audio across town with high gain antennas and 2.4 gigahertz amplifiers. Hosted by Pete Tridish from the Prometheus Radio Project, Josh Marcus, Dave Arney, and Roland Aguilar from the Philadelphia Independent Media Center, and K. Clair from the Genderchangers. -------------------- Hacking Nanotech Nanofabrication technology is an up and coming field that will revolutionize the way humans live on a day to day basis. Host Jim "Cips" tells what the future projections about nanofabrication are - things like robots so small you would need an electron microscope to see them. There will also be an examination of some amazing achievements that have been accomplished already as well as an analysis of the possible ethical problems that may arise with nanofabrication in the future. -------------------- Hacking National Intelligence: Possibilities for a Public Intelligence Revolution Robert David Steele, author of two books on intelligence reform and sponsor of the Council on Intelligence, will provide a briefing on the state of the world, 21st Century tradeoffs that are NOT being made by our elected leaders, and how citizens can take back the power by practicing the new craft of intelligence to monitor and instruct their elected officials on key national security decisions. Among other major aspects, this would translate into a freezing of the Pentagon budget at $250 billion a year and redirection of $150 billion a year toward global education, public health, water and energy conservation, and "soft power" options including diplomacy and information peacekeeping, a term Steele devised in the early 1990's. -------------------- Hacking the Invisible World Everything you could possibly want to know about the workings of scanners, frequency counters, intercepting/spoofing RF A/V feeds, STL's, pagers, infrared signs, night vision, electronic surveillance, etc. Hosted by Craig Harkins, Bernie S., and Barry "The Key" Wels -------------------- Hardware Q&A Explore a different form of hacking and interface directly with fellow electronics enthusiasts. Javaman and friends will try to answer any questions related to hardware and electronics including but not limited to hardware tokens, radio/wireless technologies, embedded systems, smart cards, and secure hardware design. -------------------- How to Start an IMC in Your Town At H2K, Jello Biafra urged attendees to become the media. Since then, many people have done just that. One of the most powerful tools in fighting the corporate media's stranglehold on information in this country has been the Indymedia network. Learn what's involved with becoming a part of Indymedia, the various hurdles and roadblocks you can expect to face, and how you can make a difference. -------------------- Human Autonomous Zones: The Real Role of Hackers How the role of hackers in society has changed. They used to be a necessary counterbalance to corporate and government power. Now, it's more like hackers are the only ones who understand the technology. They have become a balance to the power of technology itself. A discussion by renowned author Doug Rushkoff. -------------------- "I Am Against Intellectual Property" In the words of host Nelson Denoon: "Quit fucking apologizing for filesharing. Intellectual property is evil, filesharing is freedom fighting, and the sooner Jack Valenti is bumming quarters for a living, the better. The question is not how to protect artists, it is how to muster enough force to protect the right to hack." -------------------- The Ins and Outs of Webcasting While the airwaves have been almost completely taken over by corporate interests, there is a whole world of broadcasting on the Internet just waiting for creative minds. Find out what it takes to get an Internet station going and what kinds of creative programming are possible. Also, learn what the recently mandated RIAA licensing fees will mean to the future of this broadcasting medium. -------------------- Keynote: Aaron McGruder Just about everyone has at one time or another read the daily comic strip "The Boondocks." Not everyone has appreciated it. In fact, it's generated a share of controversy among the mainstream for its "alternative" views. In addition, McGruder has devoted space to hacker issues, most notably the DeCSS case - which was presented accurately for probably the first time in most of the papers his strip appears in. McGruder is one of those rare individuals with access to the mainstream who actually "gets" the technical issues. Needless to say, he has been targeted relentlessly by censors for daring to speak his mind. Sound familiar? -------------------- Keynote: Siva Vaidhyanathan "Life in a Distributed Age" Distributed information systems of all kinds are challenging cultural and political assumptions. The moral of the story is that whether we like it or not, it's time to take anarchy seriously. We have spent the past 200 years thinking centralization of power and information was the greatest challenge to republican forms of government and corporatized commerce. But now, it should be clear, decentralization and encryption have emerged as the most important dynamics of power. -------------------- Lockpicking Barry "The Key" Wels returns from The Netherlands to provide details of some high security lock weaknesses and to demonstrate some state of the art techniques of exploiting them. He will tell the story of a company that had the famous line "Nobody can pick this lock" on their website. Of course, this was the ultimate motivation for the sport-lockpickers. This panel is where you can find out if a particular lock can be picked or not. Spare locks are always welcome, as TOOOL (The Open Organization of Lockpickers) is short of good locks. -------------------- LPFM Basics Learn exactly how to navigate the LPFM licensing process. Pete Tridish of the Prometheus Radio Project and John Ramsey of Ramsey Electronics will present background about the fight for community radio and explain the absurd technical limitations placed on low-power community FM radio stations by powerful corporate interests. -------------------- Magic Lantern and Other Evil Things A talk by Rudy Rucker Jr. on the BadTrans worm and the FBI's Magic Lantern software. Both of these pieces of software are very similar and install keystroke logging software on clients' machines. Rucker has collected a couple of gigabytes of the BadTrans data and will explain how he parsed it and created a web-based tool for people to browse the database. -------------------- Making Money on the Internet While Still Saying "Fuck" Pud of fuckedcompany.com will speak about his experiences setting up and maintaining a popular Web site for corporate rumors. How does he handle confidentiality of rumor-mongers, avoid lawsuits, provide custom software to drive the site, and make money from it? -------------------- Negativland - Past, Present, Future If there is any one group who personifies the concept of "fair use," that group would have to be Negativland. The Bay Area based band has, over the years, drawn the ire of everyone from rock band U2 to American Top 40 host Casey Kasim to angry parents to confused legislators. Lead singer Mark Hosler hosts this presentation which will focus on media literacy as well as the activism, pranks, and hoaxes that Negativland has engaged in over the years. A number of rare Negativland films will also be shown. -------------------- The New FBI and How It Can Hurt You On May 29, the Federal Bureau of Investigation dramatically changed its focus. Now, instead of investigating crimes, its mission is to prevent them, meaning they have virtual carte blanche to infiltrate any law abiding organization or gathering to make sure all is right. And, even better, their third priority of dangerous crimes to stop (next to terrorism and espionage) is "cybercrime." We all know what a wide net that can be. Hear the dangers firsthand from the people who follow this kind of thing. Hosted by Mike Levine, Declan McCullagh, Robert Steele -------------------- Open Source Security Testing Methodology Manual The OSSTMM came about as a need for an open, free security testing methodology in response to the numerous security testing companies who claimed to have a secret, internal, and corporate confidential methodology for testing. It was this methodology that they used to differentiate themselves from other testing companies. The problem was that often it didn't exist and the tests turned out to be no more than commercial scanners set loose on a list of systems. The development of the OSSTMM began as a series of logical steps to make a good test and grew into the need to make the most thorough test. This presentation will show the origin of the OSSTMM and the logic behind it, as well as results of reverse-engineering the reports of corporate tests, commercial tools, and commercial presentations. Hosted by Pete Herzog -------------------- The Password Probability Matrix A winnowing method for brute-force password cracking using lossy compression. Cryptologist Jon Erickson will present the specifics for a newly developed password cracking method and perform a demonstration of it. The method is a hybrid between using computational power and storage space for an exhaustive brute-force attack utilizing a compressed matrix of probabilistic values. He will demonstrate the ability to crack any 4 character password with a fixed salt in under 8 seconds (assuming 10,000 cracks per second), using only a 141 meg file. A normal exhaustive brute-force on the same system would take over 2 hours, and flat text storage of the plaintext/hash pairs would normally use over a gigabyte of storage. This translates to 99.9% keyspace reduction and 89% storage compression. -------------------- The Patriot Act Members of the New York City People's Law Collective will be discussing the dangers of the Patriot Act and providing information on warrants, hacktivism, what is legal and what is not, and ways that hackers, activists, and normal citizens can protect themselves from The Man. -------------------- Protection for the Masses Host Rop Gonggrijp gives updates on two projects designed to help people protect their privacy from prying eyes. One is a localhost mail proxy for PGP that is really nice and could "save the world" as the PGP plugins stop working (soon...). The other one is Secure Notebook, a project to create a notebook which runs Windows, yet is secure against theft. Source for all projects will be open for review. -------------------- RetroComputing This year's retrocomputing panel will focus on hardware hacking and cloning such systems as the Apple ][ and C64. Also included will be a discussion on homebrew microcomputers and kits from the 70's as well as antique cellphone hacking. Witness firsthand genuine pieces of history. Attendees are encouraged to bring their really old computers for the "retrocomputer neighborhood" in the network room. Hosted by Mr. Ohm, Sam Nitzberg, Nightstalker, and Bernie S. -------------------- Secure Telephony: Where ARE the Secure Phones? Panel participants will take a look at the history of secure phones, what's worked and what hasn't, who the players are, and what needs to happen to make truly secure telephony a ubiquitous reality. Panel members include former Starium CTO Eric Blossom and Rop Gonggrijp of NAH6. -------------------- The Shape of the Internet: Influence and Consequence Network researchers have discovered strong power law relationships in the Internet. These can be interpreted as a direct fingerprint of the fractal structure present on the net. Work has only recently begun on analyzing the implications of such a structure on attack tolerance, government snooping, and the like. In this talk, a review of these topics will be presented, along with a proposed network structure that can avoid such issues. Hosted by Javaman -------------------- Social Engineering A tradition started at the first HOPE conference in 1994, the social engineering panel remains one of our most popular each and every time. It would be wrong for us to tell you what we have planned because then our victims might have a fighting chance of escaping. Suffice to say, we will find someone somewhere who will tell us something they really shouldn't have because they believed we were somebody we weren't. This panel is always open to participants so if you feel you're worthy, just let us know during the conference and you might find yourself up on stage trying to be clever on the phone. -------------------- Standing Up To Authority "How is it you folks have gotten away with not getting shut down by the powers-that-be?" is the question most frequently asked of Cryptome (www.cryptome.org) since its inception in 1996. Post-9/11 H2K2 is an opportune time and place to reconsider implications of this question with Cryptome founders John Young and Deborah Natsios, New York City-based architects (of bricks and mortar), who will discuss their means and methods of sustaining activism in the face of opposition, with reference to ongoing cases. -------------------- Steganography: Wild Rumors and Practical Applications Is Osama bin Laden sending coded messages in the pictures of goods for sale on EBay? Is that MP3 file carrying a secret note that tracks the listeners? Steganography is the art and science of hiding information in digital data and it stretches the boundaries of information theory and philosophy. An artful programmer can hide secret messages in such a way that a 1 is not always a 1 and a 0 is not always a 0. This talk will explore some of the popular schemes for inserting messages and discuss how they're used by hackers, poets, corporate bean counters, and programmers on a deadline. Hosted by Peter Wayner -------------------- Strategic Thought in Virtual Deterrence and Real Offense: The Computer's Role Computers are pivotal components in modern society: daily life, banking, and military. What must be considered and what risks do we all face when they are used in conflict? These concerns are societal in nature and apply to both "minor" and "major" groups, governments, and militaries. There will be opportunity for ample questions from the audience. The intention is to share the overall attendee perspective. The goal is to be thought provoking, not scare-mongering. Hosted by Wanja Naef and Sam Nitzberg -------------------- Teaching Hacker Ethics with a Common Curriculum An introduction of a new proposed curriculum guideline for teaching information ethics to students in elementary school, high school, and college. This curriculum is being proposed through the North Carolina chapter of Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility. The idea is to foster creative, exploratory, effective, and intelligent use of information tools (aka, the hacker ethic), rather than powerless end-user mentality. There are many reasons to desire a common suggested curriculum for different educational levels. We might argue that most major advances in computing were brought about by hackers. We could point out that it's necessary to encourage creative and exploratory behavior for the next generation of computer users to do brilliant things. For today's hackers, the goal is simply to shape tomorrow's hackers so that they will use their abilities to help create a better society. Hosted by Greg Newby -------------------- Tracking Criminals on the Internet How certain criminal investigations have been investigated in the past couple of years with perps being tracked by IP addresses, email, and web surfing. Such cases include the murder of Daniel Pearl, the search for Bin Laden, the Melissa virus release, the Clayton Lee Waagner escape, the anthrax attacks, and the Wakefield mass murders. Hosted by Richard M. Smith -------------------- The Ultimate Co-location Site Sealand was founded as a sovereign principality in 1967 in international waters, six miles off the eastern shores of Britain. The island fortress is conveniently situated from 65 to 100 miles from the coasts of France, Belgium, Holland and Germany. HavenCo has been providing services since May 2000 and is fully operational, offering the world's most secure managed servers in the world's only true free market environment - the Principality of Sealand. Avi Freedman of HavenCo will talk about the challenges and potential of this unique working environment and what it could mean to the future of the net. -------------------- The Vanished Art of Human Intelligence or Why the World Trade Center Would Still Be Standing if Defense Against Terrorism Had Been Contracted Out to the Private Sector A collection of videos and analysis by WBAI talk show host and 25 year federal agent Mike Levine. Learn about the dangers of the use of human intelligence in the hands of amateurs and imagine what is about to happen under the new anti-terrorism laws. -------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From barney at tp.databus.com Wed Jun 26 11:27:42 2002 From: barney at tp.databus.com (Barney Wolff) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 14:27:42 -0400 Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: ; from bear@sonic.net on Wed, Jun 26, 2002 at 10:01:00AM -0700 References: <177EEB93DEA5D4119B4800508BE753D22E7ECD@FS1> Message-ID: <20020626142742.A5220@tp.databus.com> Do you really mean that if I'm a business, you can force me to deal with you even though you refuse to supply your real name? Not acceptable. I won't give up the right NOT to do business with anonymous customers, or anyone else with whom I choose not to do business. The point about DRM, if I understand it, is that you could disclose your information to me for certain purposes without my being able to make use of it in ways you have not agreed to. At least in theory. But this debate appears largely to ignore differences in the number of bits involved. To violate your privacy I can always take a picture of my screen with an old camera, or just read it into a tape-recorder. I can't do that effectively with your new DVD without significant loss of quality. I don't see any technical solution that would enable Alice to reveal something to Bob that Bob could not then reveal to Eve. If that's true, then DRM must stand on its own dubious merits. On Wed, Jun 26, 2002 at 10:01:00AM -0700, bear wrote: > ... > > Privacy without DRM means being able to keep and > do whatever you want with the records your business > creates -- but not being able to force someone to > use their real name or linkable identity information > to do business with you if that person wants that > information to remain private. -- Barney Wolff I never met a computer I didn't like. From bear at sonic.net Wed Jun 26 14:53:46 2002 From: bear at sonic.net (bear) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 14:53:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: <20020626142742.A5220@tp.databus.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Jun 2002, Barney Wolff wrote: >Do you really mean that if I'm a business, you can force me to deal with >you even though you refuse to supply your real name? Not acceptable. >I won't give up the right NOT to do business with anonymous customers, >or anyone else with whom I choose not to do business. As a business, you want to get paid. As long as you are sure of your money, what the hell business is it of yours where I live, what name I'm currently registered under, or who I'm screwing? When I buy things with cash or silver, if they ask for ID I leave or lie. I think that people should be free to use a pseudo for any non-fraudulent purposes. Bear From jsd at monmouth.com Wed Jun 26 12:13:37 2002 From: jsd at monmouth.com (John S. Denker) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 15:13:37 -0400 Subject: privacy <> digital rights management References: Message-ID: <3D1A1261.CB0D23CB@monmouth.com> I wrote: > > Perhaps we are using > > wildly divergent notions of "privacy" Donald Eastlake 3rd wrote: > You are confusing privacy with secrecy That's not a helpful remark. My first contribution to this thread called attention to the possibility of wildly divergent notions of "privacy". Also please note that according to the US Office of Technology Assessment, such terms do not posess "a single clear definition, and theorists argue variously ... the same, completely distinct, or in some cases overlapping". Please let's avoid adversarial wrangling over terminology. If there is an important conceptual distinction, please explain the concepts using unambiguous multi-word descriptions so that we may have a collegial discussion. > The spectrum from 2 people knowing something to 2 billion knowing > something is pretty smooth and continuous. That is quite true, but quite irrelevant to the point I was making. Pick an intermediate number, say 100 people. Distributing knowledge to a group of 100 people who share a vested interest in not divulging it outside the group is starkly different from distributing it to 100 people who have nothing to lose and something to gain by divulging it. Rights Management isn't even directly connected to knowledge. Suppose I know by heart the lyrics and music to _The Producers_ --- that doesn't mean I'm free to rent a hall and put on a performance. > Both DRM and privacy have to > do with controlling material after you have released it to someone who > might wish to pass it on further against your wishes. There is little > *tehcnical* difference between your doctors records being passed on to > assorted insurance companies, your boss, and/or tabloid newspapers and > the latest Disney movies being passed on from a country where it has > been released to people/theaters in a country where it has not been > released. That's partly true (although overstated). In any case it supports my point that fixating on the *technical* issues misses some crucial aspects of the problem. > The only case where all holders of information always have a common > interest is where the number of holder is one. Colorful language is no substitute for a logical argument. Exaggerated remarks ("... ALWAYS have ...") tend to drive the discussion away from reasonable paths. In the real world, there is a great deal of information held by N people where (N>>1) and (N< <20020626203712.A914361@exeter.ac.uk> Message-ID: <025001c21d4b$abd3eaa0$4800020a@wegrzyn> If a DRM system is based on X.509, according to Brand I thought you could get anonymity in the transaction. Wouldn't this accomplish the same thing? Chuck Wegrzyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adam Back" To: cypherpunks at lne.com X-Orig-To: "bear" Cc: ; Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 3:37 PM Subject: Re: Ross's TCPA paper > On Wed, Jun 26, 2002 at 10:01:00AM -0700, bear wrote: > > As I see it, we can get either privacy or DRM, > > but there is no way on Earth to get both. > > [...] > > Hear, hear! First post on this long thread that got it right. > > Not sure what the rest of the usually clueful posters were thinking! > > DRM systems are the enemy of privacy. Think about it... strong DRM > requires enforcement as DRM is not strongly possible (all bit streams > can be re-encoded from one digital form (CD->MP3, DVD->DIVX), > encrypted content streams out to the monitor / speakers subjected to > scrutiny by hardware hackers to get digital content, or A->D > reconverted back to digital in high fidelity. > > So I agree with Bear, and re-iterate the prediction I make > periodically that the ultimate conclusion of the direction DRM laws > being persued by the media cartels will be to attempt to get > legislation directly attacking privacy. > > This is because strong privacy (cryptographically protected privacy) > allows people to exchange bit-strings with limited chance of being > identified. As the arms race between the media cartels and DRM > cohorts continues, file sharing will start to offer privacy as a form > of protection for end-users (eg. freenet has some privacy related > features, serveral others involve encryption already). > > Donald Eastlake wrote: > > | There is little *tehcnical* difference between your doctors records > | being passed on to assorted insurance companies, your boss, and/or > | tabloid newspapers and the latest Disney movies being passed on from a > | country where it has been released to people/theaters in a country > | where it has not been released. > > There is lots of technical difference. When was the last time you saw > your doctor use cryptlopes, watermarks etc to remind himself of his > obligations of privacy. > > The point is that with privacy there is an explicit or implied > agreement between the parties about the handling of information. The > agreement can not be technically *enforced* to any stringent degree. > > However privacy policy aware applications can help the company avoid > unintentionally breaching it's own agreed policy. Clearly if the > company is hostile they can write the information down off the screen > at absolute minimum. Information fidelity is hardly a criteria with > private information such as health care records, so watermarks, copy > protect marks and the rest of the DRM schtick are hardly likely to > help! > > Privacy applications can be successful to the in helping companies > avoid accidental privacy policy breaches. But DRM can not succeed > because they are inherently insecure. You give the data and the keys > to millions of people some large proportion of whom are hostile to the > controls the keys are supposedly restricting. Given the volume of > people, and lack of social stigma attached to wide-spread flouting of > copy protection restrictions, there are ample supply of people to > break any scheme hardware or software that has been developed so far, > and is likely to be developed or is constructible. > > I think content providors can still make lots of money where the > convenience, and /or enhanced fidelity of obtaining bought copies > means that people would rather do that than obtain content on the net. > > But I don't think DRM is significantly helping them and that they ware > wasting their money on it. All current DRM systems aren't even a > speed bump on the way to unauthorised Net re-distribution of content. > > Where the media cartels are being somewhat effective, and where we're > already starting to see evidence of the prediction I mentioned above > about DRM leading to a clash with privacy is in the area of > criminalization of reverse engineering, with Skylarov case, Ed > Felten's case etc. Already a number of interesting breaks of DRM > systems are starting to be released anonymously. As things heat up we > may start to see incentives for the users of file-sharing for > unauthorised re-distribution to also _use_ the software anonymsouly. > > Really I think copyright protections as being exploited by media > cartels need to be substantially modified to reduce or remove the > existing protections rather than further restrictions and powers > awareded to the media cartels. > > Adam > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > The Cryptography Mailing List > Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From wegrzyn at garbagedump.com Wed Jun 26 13:02:24 2002 From: wegrzyn at garbagedump.com (C Wegrzyn) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 16:02:24 -0400 Subject: Ross's TCPA paper - DRM and privacy References: <177EEB93DEA5D4119B4800508BE753D22E7ECD@FS1> <20020626203712.A914361@exeter.ac.uk> Message-ID: <025a01c21d4c$640feb00$4800020a@wegrzyn> One more thing, there are different types of DRM. For instance you might want to make sure that only a specific number of accesses to a media document are made, and no more. A second type of DRM access might be allowing only one concurrent access, again I'm not sure that this requires much private information.A third type of DRM might be time limited. You might also want a DRM access to a specific IP/location. These don't seem to require private information, unless prosecution is in the model of operation. Chuck Wegrzyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adam Back" To: cypherpunks at lne.com X-Orig-To: "bear" Cc: ; Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 3:37 PM Subject: Re: Ross's TCPA paper > On Wed, Jun 26, 2002 at 10:01:00AM -0700, bear wrote: > > As I see it, we can get either privacy or DRM, > > but there is no way on Earth to get both. > > [...] > > Hear, hear! First post on this long thread that got it right. > > Not sure what the rest of the usually clueful posters were thinking! > > DRM systems are the enemy of privacy. Think about it... strong DRM > requires enforcement as DRM is not strongly possible (all bit streams > can be re-encoded from one digital form (CD->MP3, DVD->DIVX), > encrypted content streams out to the monitor / speakers subjected to > scrutiny by hardware hackers to get digital content, or A->D > reconverted back to digital in high fidelity. > > So I agree with Bear, and re-iterate the prediction I make > periodically that the ultimate conclusion of the direction DRM laws > being persued by the media cartels will be to attempt to get > legislation directly attacking privacy. > > This is because strong privacy (cryptographically protected privacy) > allows people to exchange bit-strings with limited chance of being > identified. As the arms race between the media cartels and DRM > cohorts continues, file sharing will start to offer privacy as a form > of protection for end-users (eg. freenet has some privacy related > features, serveral others involve encryption already). > > Donald Eastlake wrote: > > | There is little *tehcnical* difference between your doctors records > | being passed on to assorted insurance companies, your boss, and/or > | tabloid newspapers and the latest Disney movies being passed on from a > | country where it has been released to people/theaters in a country > | where it has not been released. > > There is lots of technical difference. When was the last time you saw > your doctor use cryptlopes, watermarks etc to remind himself of his > obligations of privacy. > > The point is that with privacy there is an explicit or implied > agreement between the parties about the handling of information. The > agreement can not be technically *enforced* to any stringent degree. > > However privacy policy aware applications can help the company avoid > unintentionally breaching it's own agreed policy. Clearly if the > company is hostile they can write the information down off the screen > at absolute minimum. Information fidelity is hardly a criteria with > private information such as health care records, so watermarks, copy > protect marks and the rest of the DRM schtick are hardly likely to > help! > > Privacy applications can be successful to the in helping companies > avoid accidental privacy policy breaches. But DRM can not succeed > because they are inherently insecure. You give the data and the keys > to millions of people some large proportion of whom are hostile to the > controls the keys are supposedly restricting. Given the volume of > people, and lack of social stigma attached to wide-spread flouting of > copy protection restrictions, there are ample supply of people to > break any scheme hardware or software that has been developed so far, > and is likely to be developed or is constructible. > > I think content providors can still make lots of money where the > convenience, and /or enhanced fidelity of obtaining bought copies > means that people would rather do that than obtain content on the net. > > But I don't think DRM is significantly helping them and that they ware > wasting their money on it. All current DRM systems aren't even a > speed bump on the way to unauthorised Net re-distribution of content. > > Where the media cartels are being somewhat effective, and where we're > already starting to see evidence of the prediction I mentioned above > about DRM leading to a clash with privacy is in the area of > criminalization of reverse engineering, with Skylarov case, Ed > Felten's case etc. Already a number of interesting breaks of DRM > systems are starting to be released anonymously. As things heat up we > may start to see incentives for the users of file-sharing for > unauthorised re-distribution to also _use_ the software anonymsouly. > > Really I think copyright protections as being exploited by media > cartels need to be substantially modified to reduce or remove the > existing protections rather than further restrictions and powers > awareded to the media cartels. > > Adam > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > The Cryptography Mailing List > Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From egerck at nma.com Wed Jun 26 16:56:12 2002 From: egerck at nma.com (Ed Gerck) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 16:56:12 -0700 Subject: TCPA / Palladium FAQ (was: Re: Ross's TCPA paper) References: Message-ID: <3D1A549C.D7320FC5@nma.com> Interesting Q&A paper and list comments. Three additional comments: 1. DRM and privacy look like apple and speedboats. Privacy includes the option of not telling, which DRM does not have. 2. Palladium looks like just another vaporware from Microsoft, to preempt a market like when MS promised Windows and killed IBM's OS/2 in the process. 3. Embedding keys in mass-produced chips has great sales potential. Now we may have to upgrade processors also because the key is compromised ;-) Cheers, Ed Gerck PS: We would be much better off with OS/2, IMO. Ross Anderson wrote: > http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html > > Ross > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > The Cryptography Mailing List > Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From adam at homeport.org Wed Jun 26 14:59:27 2002 From: adam at homeport.org (Adam Shostack) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 17:59:27 -0400 Subject: privacy <> digital rights management In-Reply-To: ; from dee3@torque.pothole.com on Wed, Jun 26, 2002 at 09:51:58AM -0400 References: <3D192530.2574154D@monmouth.com> Message-ID: <20020626175927.A73406@lightship.internal.homeport.org> On Wed, Jun 26, 2002 at 09:51:58AM -0400, Donald Eastlake 3rd wrote: | "Privacy", according to the usual definitions, involve controlling the | spread of information by persons autorized to have it. Contrast with | secrecy which primarily has to do with stopping the spread of | information through the actions of those not authorized to have it. It sounds to me like you mean "data protection," not "privacy." By data protection, I mean the ability of the state to tell you not to use information about certain people in certain ways. See, for example, the EU Data Protection Directive. I find its really useful to not use the word privacy in debates about privacy; it simply means too many things to too many people. Bob Blakely once defined privacy as "The ability to lie about yourself and get away with it" which is an interesting definition. Other good ones include untracability, the inability to trace from a message to a person; unlinkability, the inability to link two instances of "theres a person here" to the same person; and unobservability, which is the ability to not be observed doing something (think curtains, my current favorite privacy technology.) | > We have thousands of years of experience with military crypto, where | > the parties at both ends of the conversation are highly motivated to | > restrict the flow of private information. The current state of this | > technology is very robust. | | That's secrecy technology, not privacy technology. I'm not getting into this one. :) -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume From mdpopescu at subdimension.com Wed Jun 26 08:14:42 2002 From: mdpopescu at subdimension.com (Marcel Popescu) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 18:14:42 +0300 Subject: Ross's TCPA paper References: <200206251536.g5PFa2T22804@samsara.law.cwru.edu> <1025088860.9261.51.camel@yeltsin.mthink> Message-ID: <01b001c21d24$32c848d0$a36e9cd9@mark> From: "Pete Chown" > You should hate it. :-) It is appropriate for the legislature to decide > which acts are restricted by copyright and which are not. The DMCA and > similar legislation hands that right to private organisations. To some > extent anti-trust law guards against the worst abuses, but it is more > appropriate for the boundaries of copyright to be set by our "elected > representatives". This was a joke, right? I mean, on this list, saying that our elected representatives are better than even the most hated companies MUST be a joke... right? Mark From ben at algroup.co.uk Wed Jun 26 12:09:24 2002 From: ben at algroup.co.uk (Ben Laurie) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 20:09:24 +0100 Subject: privacy <> digital rights management References: Message-ID: <3D1A1164.30902@algroup.co.uk> Donald Eastlake 3rd wrote: > On Tue, 25 Jun 2002, John S. Denker wrote: > > >>Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 22:21:36 -0400 >>From: John S. Denker >>To: Dan Geer , cryptography at wasabisystems.com, >> cypherpunks at lne.com, Ross.Anderson at cl.cam.ac.uk >>Subject: Re: privacy <> digital rights management >> >>Dan Geer wrote: >> >>>Over the last six months, I'd discovered that Carl Ellison (Intel), >>>Joan Feigenbaum (Yale) and I agreed on at least one thing: that the >>>problem statements for "privacy" and for "digital rights management" >>>were identical, >> >>... >> >>>... YMMV. >> >>Uhhh, my mileage varies rather considerably. Perhaps we are using >>wildly divergent notions of "privacy" -- or wildly divergent >>notions of "identical". >> >>DRM has to do mainly with protecting certain rights to _published_ >>material. Private material is not "identical" with published >>material -- it is more opposite than identical. > > > The spectrum from 2 people knowing something to 2 billion knowing > something is pretty smooth and continuous. Both DRM and privacy have to > do with controlling material after you have released it to someone who > might wish to pass it on further against your wishes. No they don't! Privacy has to do with two (or more) parties wishing to collaborate to prevent third parties from eavesdropping. DRM has to do with one party attempting to control everyone else's ability to reproduce. If these are related to each other at all, they are what mathematicians like to call duals. IMO. Cheers, Ben. -- http://www.apache-ssl.org/ben.html http://www.thebunker.net/ "There is no limit to what a man can do or how far he can go if he doesn't mind who gets the credit." - Robert Woodruff --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From eresrch at eskimo.com Wed Jun 26 20:25:23 2002 From: eresrch at eskimo.com (Mike Rosing) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 20:25:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 27 Jun 2002, David Wagner wrote: > No, it's not. Read Ross Anderson's article again. Your analysis misses > part of the point. Here's an example of a more problematic vision: > you can buy Microsoft Office for $500 and be able to view MS Office > documents; or you can refrain from buying it and you won't be able to > view MS Office documents. Do you see why this is problematic? It lets > one vendor lock the world into a monopoly; noone else will be able to > develop compatible MS Word viewers without the consent of Microsoft. > (StarOffice on Linux won't work, because to get the session key to > decrypt the Word document your viewer has to go online to microsoft.com > and ask for it, but microsoft.com won't give you the key unless you've > bought a "secure" "trusted" OS and purchased Microsoft Office for $500.) > Now notice that the same idea can be used to inhibit competition in > just about any computer market, and I hope you appreciate Ross's point. > TCPA/DRM has the potential for anti-competitive effects, and the result > may well be worse off than we are today. As long as MS Office isn't mandated by law, who cares? So what: somebody sends me a file. I tell them I can't read it. Now, they have a choice, they can give me MS Office or they can send me ascii. The market will determine if "secure" OS's are useful. DRM isn't the problem. Legislating DRM is the problem. You can go buy IBM portables with secure key chips built in right now to help protect your box and your business data. That's TCPA. Nothing wrong with it, it's a good idea. It doesn't become wrong until it becomes forced down our throats. That's where S.2048 becomes something to worry about, it forces us to use hardware we don't need (or may not need for our purposes). TCPA and DRM are not the problem here, and privacy and copyright are side issues too. There is no need for the law to intervene, the market will decide how all this stuff can be used efficiently and effectively. And that's what the entertainment industry needs to figure out and fast too. The law is slow. Technology is fast. Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike From matchnews at foryou.match.com Wed Jun 26 18:31:26 2002 From: matchnews at foryou.match.com (matchnews@match.com) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 20:31:26 -0500 Subject: What would you say to the perfect Match? 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Never include your last name, real email address, home address, phone number, place more URL: http://www.match.com/Matchscene/article.asp?bannerid=512515&ArticleID=10 Visit Match.com , the world's largest online dating community. You've received this bulletin as a subscriber to the Match.com newsletter. To UNSUBSCRIBE, log in to Match.com, select My Account, and choose Match.com Newsletter under MY EMAIL OPTIONS. Copyright 1993-2001 Match.com, Inc. Match.com and the radiant heart are registered trademarks of Match.com, Inc. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 28627 bytes Desc: not available URL: From adam at cypherspace.org Wed Jun 26 12:37:12 2002 From: adam at cypherspace.org (Adam Back) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 20:37:12 +0100 Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: ; from bear@sonic.net on Wed, Jun 26, 2002 at 10:01:00AM -0700 References: <177EEB93DEA5D4119B4800508BE753D22E7ECD@FS1> Message-ID: <20020626203712.A914361@exeter.ac.uk> On Wed, Jun 26, 2002 at 10:01:00AM -0700, bear wrote: > As I see it, we can get either privacy or DRM, > but there is no way on Earth to get both. > [...] Hear, hear! First post on this long thread that got it right. Not sure what the rest of the usually clueful posters were thinking! DRM systems are the enemy of privacy. Think about it... strong DRM requires enforcement as DRM is not strongly possible (all bit streams can be re-encoded from one digital form (CD->MP3, DVD->DIVX), encrypted content streams out to the monitor / speakers subjected to scrutiny by hardware hackers to get digital content, or A->D reconverted back to digital in high fidelity. So I agree with Bear, and re-iterate the prediction I make periodically that the ultimate conclusion of the direction DRM laws being persued by the media cartels will be to attempt to get legislation directly attacking privacy. This is because strong privacy (cryptographically protected privacy) allows people to exchange bit-strings with limited chance of being identified. As the arms race between the media cartels and DRM cohorts continues, file sharing will start to offer privacy as a form of protection for end-users (eg. freenet has some privacy related features, serveral others involve encryption already). Donald Eastlake wrote: | There is little *tehcnical* difference between your doctors records | being passed on to assorted insurance companies, your boss, and/or | tabloid newspapers and the latest Disney movies being passed on from a | country where it has been released to people/theaters in a country | where it has not been released. There is lots of technical difference. When was the last time you saw your doctor use cryptlopes, watermarks etc to remind himself of his obligations of privacy. The point is that with privacy there is an explicit or implied agreement between the parties about the handling of information. The agreement can not be technically *enforced* to any stringent degree. However privacy policy aware applications can help the company avoid unintentionally breaching it's own agreed policy. Clearly if the company is hostile they can write the information down off the screen at absolute minimum. Information fidelity is hardly a criteria with private information such as health care records, so watermarks, copy protect marks and the rest of the DRM schtick are hardly likely to help! Privacy applications can be successful to the in helping companies avoid accidental privacy policy breaches. But DRM can not succeed because they are inherently insecure. You give the data and the keys to millions of people some large proportion of whom are hostile to the controls the keys are supposedly restricting. Given the volume of people, and lack of social stigma attached to wide-spread flouting of copy protection restrictions, there are ample supply of people to break any scheme hardware or software that has been developed so far, and is likely to be developed or is constructible. I think content providors can still make lots of money where the convenience, and /or enhanced fidelity of obtaining bought copies means that people would rather do that than obtain content on the net. But I don't think DRM is significantly helping them and that they ware wasting their money on it. All current DRM systems aren't even a speed bump on the way to unauthorised Net re-distribution of content. Where the media cartels are being somewhat effective, and where we're already starting to see evidence of the prediction I mentioned above about DRM leading to a clash with privacy is in the area of criminalization of reverse engineering, with Skylarov case, Ed Felten's case etc. Already a number of interesting breaks of DRM systems are starting to be released anonymously. As things heat up we may start to see incentives for the users of file-sharing for unauthorised re-distribution to also _use_ the software anonymsouly. Really I think copyright protections as being exploited by media cartels need to be substantially modified to reduce or remove the existing protections rather than further restrictions and powers awareded to the media cartels. Adam --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From sunder at sunder.net Wed Jun 26 17:43:19 2002 From: sunder at sunder.net (Sunder) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 20:43:19 -0400 (edt) Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: <20020626142742.A5220@tp.databus.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Jun 2002, Barney Wolff wrote: > Do you really mean that if I'm a business, you can force me to deal with > you even though you refuse to supply your real name? When was the last time you had to give your name when you bought a newspaper, CD or a DVD in a non-online/non-mail order store? > Not acceptable. > I won't give up the right NOT to do business with anonymous customers, > or anyone else with whom I choose not to do business. That is your choice of course, as it is mine to refuse to disclose my identity for a simple purchase such as a newspaper, CD, or DVD. > The point about DRM, if I understand it, is that you could disclose > your information to me for certain purposes without my being able > to make use of it in ways you have not agreed to. At least in > theory. Then, you don't understand it at all. The point of DRM is to prevent you, the customer from making copies of CD's and DVD's available to others, skipping over commercials, to limit you from purchasing the same titles from outside your "region" for much less, or slightly different edits, or before they're released in your region, or lend the same to your friends, or transferring the data to other mediums (mp3 players, etc.) Never mind that copyright laws allow such fair use such as making backups and loaning to your friends, transfering CD tracks to your mp3 player, and even selling used DVD's/CD's so long as you destroy all other copies of the same title. In order to enforce these ends, the only way to "protect" the rights of the owner of the copyrighted work, the current proposals deem to remove administrative rights to your own computer. i.e. MSFT Palladin et al. At this point, the owner of the copyright has root on your computer. (Be that computer a DVD player, X-Box, or whatever.) Should you have anything else on that machine, it is accessible surreptitiously by them without your knowledge so long as the device is online, and it would have to be in order to be "registered" and "updated." Hence the complaints of privacy violations. > But this debate appears largely to ignore differences in > the number of bits involved. To violate your privacy I can always > take a picture of my screen with an old camera, or just read it > into a tape-recorder. I can't do that effectively with your new DVD > without significant loss of quality. The number and quality of bits is irrelevant from the point of view of the MPAA and RIA. Street vendors of illegal VHS tapes and DVD's made of movies from a camcorder while in a movie theater have had their asses rightly hauled in. I imagine the quality of their wares is also quite low when compared to legal versions of the same. > I don't see any technical solution that would enable Alice to reveal > something to Bob that Bob could not then reveal to Eve. If that's > true, then DRM must stand on its own dubious merits. Indeed. From quality at onlinepji.net Wed Jun 26 20:57:20 2002 From: quality at onlinepji.net (quality at onlinepji.net) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 20:57:20 Subject: IMPLEMENT ISO 9000 OR QS-9000 IN 90 DAYS Message-ID: <584.528871.226807@onlinepji.net> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3905 bytes Desc: not available URL: From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Wed Jun 26 21:10:25 2002 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 21:10:25 -0700 Subject: Two additional TCPA/Palladium plays Message-ID: <037901c21d90$94807d60$0100a8c0@LUCKYVAIO> [Minor plug: I am scheduled to give a talk on TCPA at this year's DEF CON security conference. I promise it will be an interesting talk. http://www.defcon.org ] Below are two more additional TCPA plays that I am in a position to mention: 1) Permanently lock out competitors from your file formats. >From Steven Levy's article: "A more interesting possibility is that Palladium could help introduce DRM to business and just plain people. It's a funny thing," says Bill Gates. "We came at this thinking about music, but then we realized that e-mail and documents were far more interesting domains." Here it is why it is a more interesting possibility to Microsoft for Palladium to help introduce DRM to business and "just plain people" than to solely utilize DRM to prevent copying of digital entertainment content: It is true that Microsoft, Intel, and other key TCPA members consider DRM an enabler of the PC as the hub of the future home entertainment network. As Ross pointed out, by adding DRM to the platform, Microsoft and Intel, are able to grow the market for the platform. However, this alone does little to enhance Microsoft's already sizable existing core business. As Bill Gates stated, Microsoft plans to wrap their entire set of file formats with DRM. How does this help Microsoft's core business? Very simple: enabling DRM for MS Word documents makes it illegal under the DMCA to create competing software that can read or otherwise process the application's file format without the application vendor's permission. Future maintainers of open source office suites will be faced with a very simple choice: don't enable the software to read Microsoft's file formats or go to jail. Anyone who doubts that such a thing could happen is encouraged to familiarize themselves with the case of Dmitry Skylarov, who was arrested after last year's DEF CON conference for creating software that permitted processing of a DRM-wrapped document file format. Permanently locking out competition is a feature that of course does not just appeal to Microsoft alone. A great many dominant application vendors are looking forward to locking out their competition. The beauty of this play is that the application vendors themselves never need to make that call to the FBI themselves and incur the resultant backlash from the public that Adobe experienced in the Skylarov case. The content providers or some of those utilizing the ubiquitously supported DRM features will eagerly make that call instead. In one fell swoop, application vendors, such as Microsoft and many others, create a situation in which the full force of the U.S. judicial system can be brought to bear on anyone attempting to compete with a dominant application vendor. This is one of the several ways in which TCPA enables stifling competition. The above is one of the near to medium objectives the TCPA helps meet. [The short-term core application objective is of course to ensure payment for any and all copies of your application out there]. Below is a mid to long term objective: 2) Lock documents to application licensing As the Levy article mentions, Palladium will permit the creation of documents with a given lifetime. This feature by necessity requires a secure clock, not just at the desktop of the creator of the document, but also on the desktops of all parties that might in the future read such documents. Since PC's do not ship with secure clocks that the owner of the PC is unable to alter and since the TCPA's specs do not mandate such an expensive hardware solution, any implementation of limited lifetime documents must by necessity obtain the time elsewhere. The obvious source for secure time is a TPM authenticated time server that distributes the time over the Internet. In other words, Palladium and other TCPA-based applications will require at least occasional Internet access to operate. It is during such mandatory Internet access that licensing-related information will be pushed to the desktop. One such set of information would be blacklists of widely-distributed pirated copies of application software (you don't need TCPA for this feature if the user downloads and installs periodic software updates, but the user may choose to live with application bugs that are fixed in the update rather than see her unpaid software disabled). With TCPA and DRM on all documents, the application vendor's powers increase vastly: the application vendor can now not just invalidate copies of applications for failure to pay ongoing licensing fees, but can invalidate all documents that were ever created with the help of this application. Regardless how widely the documents may have been distributed or on who's computer the documents may reside at present. Furthermore, this feature enables world-wide remote invalidation of a document file for reasons other than failure to pay ongoing licensing fees to the application vendor. To give just one example, documents can be remotely invalidated pursuant to a court order, as might be given if the author of the document were to distribute DeCSS v3 or Scientology scriptures in the future DRM protected format. All that is required to perform such an administrative invalidation of a document is either a sample copy of the document from which one can obtain its globally unique ID, the serial number of the application that created the document, or the public key of the person who licensed the application. (Other ways to exist but are omitted in the interest of brevity). --Lucky Green From contact-co062602-56325112 at box5.d2a7b3.net Wed Jun 26 18:16:23 2002 From: contact-co062602-56325112 at box5.d2a7b3.net (Investor Insights) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 21:16:23 -0400 Subject: HUGE BREAKING NEWS! (NASDAQ:COOX) - WATCH THIS STOCK TRADE TOMORROW Message-ID: <200206270123.UAA08643@einstein.ssz.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 13355 bytes Desc: not available URL: From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Wed Jun 26 22:07:19 2002 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 22:07:19 -0700 Subject: Revenge of the WAVEoids: Palladium Clues May Lie In AMD Motherboard Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <03c801c21d98$87010260$0100a8c0@LUCKYVAIO> Bob wrote quoting Mark Hachman: > The whitepaper can not be considered a roadmap to the design > of a Palladium-enabled PC, although it is one practical > solution. The whitepaper was written at around the time the > Trusted Computing Platform Association > (TCPA) was formed in the fall of 2000; both Wave and AMD > belong to the TCPA. And, while Palladium uses some form of > CPU-level processing of security algorithms, the AMD-Wave > whitepaper's example seems wholly tied to an off-chip > security processor, the EMBASSY. An EMBASSY-like CPU security co-processor would have seriously blown the part cost design constraint on the TPM by an order of magnitude or two. I am not asserting that security solutions that require special-purpose CPU functionality are not in the queue, they very much are, but not in the first phase. This level of functionality has been deferred to a second phase in which security processing functionality can be moved into the core CPU, since a second CPU-like part is unjustifiable from a cost perspective. Given the length of CPU design cycles and the massive cost of architecting new functionality into a processor as complex as a modern CPU, we may or may not see this functionality shipping. Much depends on how well phase 1 of the TCPA effort fares. --Lucky --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Wed Jun 26 22:15:59 2002 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 22:15:59 -0700 Subject: DRMs vs internet privacy (Re: Ross's TCPA paper) In-Reply-To: <20020626230308.A789780@exeter.ac.uk> Message-ID: <03d001c21d99$bd1b9b20$0100a8c0@LUCKYVAIO> Adam Back wrote: > I don't mean that you would necessarily have to correlate > your viewing habits with your TrueName for DRM systems. > Though that is mostly > (exclusively?) the case for current deployed (or at least > implemented with a view of attempting commercial deployment) copy-mark > (fingerprint) systems, there are a number of approaches which > have been suggested, or could be used to have viewing privacy. The TCPA specs were carefully designed to permit the user to obtain multiple certificates from multiple CA's and thus, if, and that's a big if, the CA's don't collude and furthermore indeed discard the true name identities of the customer, utilize multiple separate identities for various online applications. I.e., the user could have one cert for their True Name, one used to enable Microsoft Office, and one to authenticate the user to other online services. It is very much the intent of the TCPA to permit the use of pseudonymous credentials for many, if not most, applications. Otherwise, the TCPA's carefully planned attempts at winning over the online liberty groups would have been doomed from the start. --Lucky Green --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From Ross.Anderson at cl.cam.ac.uk Wed Jun 26 14:33:45 2002 From: Ross.Anderson at cl.cam.ac.uk (Ross Anderson) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 22:33:45 +0100 Subject: TCPA / Palladium FAQ (was: Re: Ross's TCPA paper) In-Reply-To: Message from Ross Anderson of "Tue, 25 Jun 2002 16:56:31 BST." Message-ID: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html Ross From adam at cypherspace.org Wed Jun 26 15:03:08 2002 From: adam at cypherspace.org (Adam Back) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 23:03:08 +0100 Subject: DRMs vs internet privacy (Re: Ross's TCPA paper) In-Reply-To: <025001c21d4b$abd3eaa0$4800020a@wegrzyn>; from wegrzyn@garbagedump.com on Wed, Jun 26, 2002 at 03:57:15PM -0400 References: <177EEB93DEA5D4119B4800508BE753D22E7ECD@FS1> <20020626203712.A914361@exeter.ac.uk> <025001c21d4b$abd3eaa0$4800020a@wegrzyn> Message-ID: <20020626230308.A789780@exeter.ac.uk> On Wed, Jun 26, 2002 at 03:57:15PM -0400, C Wegrzyn wrote: > If a DRM system is based on X.509, according to Brand I thought you could > get anonymity in the transaction. Wouldn't this accomplish the same thing? I don't mean that you would necessarily have to correlate your viewing habits with your TrueName for DRM systems. Though that is mostly (exclusively?) the case for current deployed (or at least implemented with a view of attempting commercial deployment) copy-mark (fingerprint) systems, there are a number of approaches which have been suggested, or could be used to have viewing privacy. Brands credentials are one example of a technology that allows trap-door privacy (privacy until you reveal more copies than you are allowed to -- eg more than once for ecash). Conceivably this could be used with a somewhat online, or in combination with a tamper-resistant observer chip in lieu of online copy-protection system to limit someone for example to a limited number of viewings. Another is the "public key fingerprinting" (public key copy-marking) schemes by Birgit Pfitzmann and others. This addresses the issue of proof, such that the user of the marked-object and the verifier (eg a court) of a claim of unauthorised copying can be assured that the copy-marker did not frame the user. Perhaps schemes which combine both aspects (viewer privacy and avoidance of need to trust at face value claims of the copy-marker) can be built and deployed. (With the caveat that though they can be built, they are largely irrelevant as they will no doubt also be easily removable, and anyway do not prevent the copying of the marked object under the real or feigned claim of theft from the user whose identity is marked in the object). But anyway, my predictions about the impending collision between privacy and the DRM and copy protection legislation power-grabs stems from the relationship of privacy to the later redistrubtion observation that: 1) clearly copy protection doesn't and can't a-priori prevent copying and conversion into non-DRM formats (eg into MP3, DIVX) 2) once 1) happens, the media cartels have an interest to track general file trading on the internet; 3) _but_ strong encryption and cryptographically enforced privacy mean that the media cartels will ultimately be unsuccessful in this endeavour. 4) _therefore_ they will try to outlaw privacy and impose escrow identity and internet passports etc. and try to get cryptographically assured privacy outlawed. (Similar to the previous escrow on encryption for media cartel interests instead of signals intelligence special interests; but the media cartels are also a powerful adversary). Also I note an slip in my earlier post [of Bear's post]: | First post on this long thread that got it right. Ross Anderson's comments were also right on the money (as always). Adam From InsightontheNews at broadbandpublisher.com Wed Jun 26 20:39:28 2002 From: InsightontheNews at broadbandpublisher.com (Insight on the News) Date: 26 Jun 2002 23:39:28 -0400 Subject: Insight on the News Email Edition Message-ID: <200206262340366.SM00688@broadbandpublisher.com> INSIGHT NEWS ALERT! A new issue of Insight on the News is now online http://www.insightmag.com ............................................... Folks, in case you missed it, John Berlau’s blockbuster on how anti- tobacco lawyers are now targeting fast food is still posted http://www.insightmag.com/news/256297.html. And Hans Nichols sweeps the dirt on the Ninth Circuit Court out from under the carpet, and explains how it could have done the unthinkable---rule the Pledge of Allegiance unconstitutional http://www.insightmag.com/news/256762.html. I know you’ll enjoy them! OK, until next time, from the Bunker, I’m your newsman in Washington. ............................................... ONE NATION, UNDER THE NINTH CIRCUIT Hans Nichols says they ruled the Pledge of Allegiance unconstitutional. Read more about this "Rogue Court." http://www.insightmag.com/news/256762.html ............................................... SUPPLYING TERRORISTS THE ‘OXYGEN OF PUBLICITY’ Jamie Dettmer opines that combating terrorism is a desperate undertaking for any democratic government. Fight with merely military might and the struggle can be lost — as the Reagan administration belatedly learned in Central America in the 1980s and the Russians have found in Chechnya. http://www.insightmag.com/news/256316.html ............................................... A BURNING ISSUE Phil Magers writes that Arizona and Colorado burn the wildland fire management debate rages. http://www.insightmag.com/news/256498.html ======================================== Be Your Own Boss!! No Selling. . . No Overhead. . . Immediate Cash Flow. . .Start Now http://etools.ncol.com/a/jgroup/bg_GCOA_wwwinsightmagcom_14.html ======================================== UNLIKE CLINTON, BUSH IS MEETING THE THREAT OF TERRORISM Ralph Reiland writes that like three blind mice, House Majority Leader Dick Gephardt, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton and Democratic political strategist James Carville are running around saying they want their eyes opened as to what's going on in this country about terrorism. http://www.insightmag.com/news/256332.html ............................................... SYMPOSIUM---PRO & CON Q: Has the White House ignored human rights in the name of national security? http://www.insightmag.com/news/256338.html WILLIAM SCHULZ SAYS: YES: The administration has given itself and its coalition partners a 'pass' on human-rights violations. http://www.insightmag.com/news/256339.html ROBERT L. MAGINNIS SAYS: NO: It is not treating suspected terrorists inhumanely nor trampling on the civil rights of citizens. America's global war on terrorism significantly will advance human rights because it will free people from repression and the threat of terrorism. Until the war is over, however, expect temporary sacrifices for more security. Every soldier facing the enemy understands this unavoidable trade-off. http://www.insightmag.com/news/256340.html .............................................. BIZARRE RULING—NO REGULATION NEEDED Sean Paige tells us, in what well could be a first, a leading government agency with responsibility for public safety has recommended against heaping yet another safety mandate on the mountain of regulations already in place to ensure that accidents don't happen. http://www.insightmag.com/news/256330.html ======================================== SUBSCRIBE TO THE INSIGHT PRINT EDITION TODAY! And Save 72% (Off Our Newsstand Price) https://www.collegepublisher.com/insightsub/subform1.cfm ======================================= You have received this newsletter because you have a user name and password at Insight on the News. To unsubscribe from this newsletter, visit "http://www.insightmag.com/main.cfm?include=unsubscribe". You may also log into Insight on the News and edit your account preferences on the Web. If you have forgotten or don't know your user name and password, it will be emailed to you after visiting the following link: http://www.insightmag.com/main.cfm?include=emailPassword&serialNumber=16oai891z5&email=cypherpunks at ssz.com From rah at shipwright.com Wed Jun 26 20:46:15 2002 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 23:46:15 -0400 Subject: Revenge of the WAVEoids: Palladium Clues May Lie In AMD Motherboard Design Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp Size: 28796 bytes Desc: not available URL: From iggy at panix.com Wed Jun 26 21:01:15 2002 From: iggy at panix.com (Iggy River) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 00:01:15 -0400 Subject: (Fwd) Nortel secret security part of court records now, gracia Message-ID: <3D1A55CB.15493.5CBFD32@localhost> I looked at the Nevada PUC (PUCN) web site and found that the most recent document on-line that relates to docket #{HYPERLINK "dkt_00-6057/00-6057.htm"}00-6057 (EDDIE MUNOZ VS CENTRAL TELEPHONE COMPANY-NEVADA DBA SPRINT OF NEVADA, COMPLAINT ALLEGING INCOMING CALLS ARE BEING BLOCKED OR DIVERTED FROM CUSTOMERS BUSINESS) is from 04/07/02 - and the link is broken. Clearly the below referenced document (Nortel codes) will not appear on-line -- at least not courtesy of the PUCN. However, chapter 703, "PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION OF NEVADA - GENERAL PROVISIONS", of the Nevada Revised Statues states) among other things): NRS 703.190 Records open to public inspection; exception. 1. Except as otherwise provided in this section, all biennial reports, records, proceedings, papers and files of the commission must be open at all reasonable times to the public. 2. The commission shall, upon receipt of a request from a public utility, prohibit the disclosure of any information in its possession concerning the public utility if the commission determines that the information would otherwise be entitled to protection as a trade secret or confidential commercial information pursuant to {HYPERLINK "NRS-049.html" \l "NRS049Sec325"}NRS 49.325 or {HYPERLINK "NRS-600A.html" \l "NRS600ASec070"}600A.070 or Rule 26(c)(7) of the Nevada Rules of Civil Procedure. Upon making such a determination, the commission shall establish the period during which the information must not be disclosed and a procedure for protecting the information during and after that period. [Part 12:109:1919; 1919 RL p. 3157; NCL ' 6111](NRS A 1995, 385) I don't know what the legal definition of "confidential commercial information" is, but I doubt that the code list could be construed as a trade secret *of the utility*, perhaps of Nortel, but according to the statute only the utility can move to limit public access to the documents. Perhaps this document is currently accessible in hard copy in NV? I wonder how many people have visited the PUCN office in the past three days! ------- Forwarded message follows ------- Date sent: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 09:23:14 -0700 From: "Major Variola (ret)" Subject: Nortel secret security part of court records now, gracias Kevin To: undisclosed-recipients: ; Towards the bottom of this article its mentioned that Mitnick submitted a list of Nortel's [1] 'security' barriers to r00t [2] on a widely used piece of telco switching equiptment. One wonders how many copies of this info circulate in TLA's technical intercept depts? [1] (presumably obsolete :-) [2] Should this be called "tapr00t" ?? ---------- http://online.securityfocus.com/news/497 Mitnick Testifies Against Sprint in Vice Hack Case The ex-hacker details his past control of Las Vegas' telecom network, and raids his old storage locker to produce the evidence. By Kevin Poulsen, Jun 24 2002 11:25PM LAS VEGAS--Since adult entertainment operator Eddie Munoz first told state regulators in 1994 that mercenary hackers were crippling his business by diverting, monitoring and blocking his phone calls, officials at local telephone company Sprint of Nevada have maintained that, as far as they know, their systems have never suffered a single intrusion. The Sprint subsidiary lost that innocence Monday when convicted hacker Kevin Mitnick shook up a hearing on the call-tampering allegations by detailing years of his own illicit control of the company's Las Vegas switching systems, and the workings of a computerized testing system that he says allows silent monitoring of any phone line served by the incumbent telco. "I had access to most, if not all, of the switches in Las Vegas," testified Mitnick, at a hearing of Nevada's Public Utilities Commission (PUC). "I had the same privileges as a Northern Telecom technician." Mitnick's testimony played out like a surreal Lewis Carroll version of a hacker trial -- with Mitnick calmly and methodically explaining under oath how he illegally cracked Sprint of Nevada's network, while the attorney for the victim company attacked his testimony, effectively accusing the ex-hacker of being innocent. The plaintiff in the case, Munoz, 43, is accusing Sprint of negligence in allegedly allowing hackers to control their network to the benefit of a few crooked businesses. Munoz is the publisher of an adult advertising paper that sells the services of a bevy of in-room entertainers, whose phone numbers are supposed to ring to Munoz's switchboard. Instead, callers frequently get false busy signals, or reach silence, Munoz claims. Occasionally calls appear to be rerouted directly to a competitor. Munoz's complaints have been echoed by other outcall service operators, bail bondsmen and private investigators -- some of whom appeared at two days of hearings in March to testify for Munoz against Sprint. Mitnick returned to the hearing room clutching a crumpled, dog-eared and torn sheet of paper. Munoz hired Mitnick as a technical consultant in his case last year, after SecurityFocus Online reported that the ex-hacker -- a onetime Las Vegas resident -- claimed he had substantial access to Sprint's network up until his 1995 arrest. After running some preliminary tests, Mitnick withdrew from the case when Munoz fell behind in paying his consulting fees. On the last day of the March hearings, commissioner Adriana Escobar Chanos adjourned the matter to allow Munoz time to persuade Mitnick to testify, a feat Munoz pulled-off just in time for Monday's hearing. Mitnick admitted that his testing produced no evidence that Munoz is experiencing call diversion or blocking. But his testimony casts doubt on Sprint's contention that such tampering is unlikely, or impossible. With the five year statute of limitations long expired, Mitnick appeared comfortable describing with great specificity how he first gained access to Sprint's systems while living in Las Vegas in late 1992 or early 1993, and then maintained that access while a fugitive. Mitnick testified that he could connect to the control consoles -- quaintly called "visual display units" -- on each of Vegas' DMS-100 switching systems through dial-up modems intended to allow the switches to be serviced remotely by the company that makes them, Ontario-based Northern Telecom, renamed in 1999 to Nortel Networks. Each switch had a secret phone number, and a default username and password, he said. He obtained the phone numbers and passwords from Sprint employees by posing as a Nortel technician, and used the same ploy every time he needed to use the dial-ups, which were inaccessible by default. With access to the switches, Mitnick could establish, change, redirect or disconnect phone lines at will, he said. That's a far cry from the unassailable system portrayed at the March hearings, when former company security investigator Larry Hill -- who retired from Sprint in 2000 -- testified "to my knowledge there's no way that a computer hacker could get into our systems." Similarly, a May 2001 filing by Scott Collins of Sprint's regulatory affairs department said that to the company's knowledge Sprint's network had "never been penetrated or compromised by so-called computer hackers." Under cross examination Monday by PUC staff attorney Louise Uttinger, Collins admitted that Sprint maintains dial-up modems to allow Nortel remote access to their switches, but insisted that Sprint had improved security on those lines since 1995, even without knowing they'd been compromised before. But Mitnick had more than just switches up his sleeve Monday. The ex-hacker also discussed a testing system called CALRS (pronounced "callers"), the Centralized Automated Loop Reporting System. Mitnick first described CALRS to SecurityFocus Online last year as a system that allows Las Vegas phone company workers to run tests on customer lines from a central location. It consists of a handful of client computers, and remote servers attached to each of Sprint's DMS-100 switches. Mitnick testified Monday that the remote servers were accessible through 300 baud dial-up modems, guarded by a technique only slightly more secure than simple password protection: the server required the client -- normally a computer program -- to give the proper response to any of 100 randomly chosen challenges. The ex-hacker said he was able to learn the Las Vegas dial-up numbers by conning Sprint workers, and he obtained the "seed list" of challenges and responses by using his social engineering skills on Nortel, which manufactures and sells the system. The system allows users to silently monitor phone lines, or originate calls on other people's lines, Mitnick said. Mitnick's claims seemed to inspire skepticism in the PUC's technical advisor, who asked the ex-hacker, shortly before the hearing was to break for lunch, if he could prove that he had cracked Sprint's network. Mitnick said he would try. Two hours later, Mitnick returned to the hearing room clutching a crumpled, dog-eared and torn sheet of paper, and a small stack of copies for the commissioner, lawyers, and staff. At the top of the paper was printed "3703-03 Remote Access Password List." A column listed 100 "seeds", numbered "00" through "99," corresponding to a column of four digit hexadecimal "passwords," like "d4d5" and "1554." Commissioner Escobar Chanos accepted the list as an exhibit over the objections of Sprint attorney Patrick Riley, who complained that it hadn't been provided to the company in discovery. Mitnick retook the stand and explained that he used the lunch break to visit a nearby storage locker that he'd rented on a long-term basis years ago, before his arrest. "I wasn't sure if I had it in that storage locker," said Mitnick. "I hadn't been there in seven years." "If the system is still in place, and they haven't changed the seed list, you could use this to get access to CALRS," Mitnick testified. "The system would allow you to wiretap a line, or seize dial tone." Mitnick's return to the hearing room with the list generated a flurry of activity at Sprint's table; Ann Pongracz, the company's general counsel, and another Sprint employee strode quickly from the room -- Pongracz already dialing on a cell phone while she walked. Riley continued his cross examination of Mitnick, suggesting, again, that the ex-hacker may have made the whole thing up. "The only way I know that this is a Nortel document is to take you at your word, correct?," asked Riley. "How do we know that you're not social engineering us now?" Mitnick suggested calmly that Sprint try the list out, or check it with Nortel. Nortel could not be reached for comment after hours Monday. The PUC hearing is expected to run through Tuesday. ------- End of forwarded message ------- From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Thu Jun 27 00:59:46 2002 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 00:59:46 -0700 Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <041401c21db0$9dd77d30$0100a8c0@LUCKYVAIO> David wrote: > It's not clear that enabling anti-competitive behavior is > good for society. After all, there's a reason we have > anti-trust law. Ross Anderson's point -- and it seems to me > it's one worth considering > -- is that, if there are potentially harmful effects that > come with the beneficial effects, maybe we should think about > them in advance. I fully agree that the TCPA's efforts offer potentially beneficial effects. Assuming the TPM has not been compromised, the TPM should enable to detect if interested parties have replaced you NIC with the rarer, but not unheard of, variant that ships out the contents of your operating RAM via DMA and IP padding outside the abilities of your OS to detect. However, enabling platform security, as much as might be stressed otherwise by the stakeholders, has never been the motive behind the TCPA. The motive has been DRM. Does this mean that one should ignore the benefits that TCPA might bring? Of course not. But it does mean that one should carefully weigh the benefits against the risks. --Lucky Green From daw at mozart.cs.berkeley.edu Wed Jun 26 19:26:41 2002 From: daw at mozart.cs.berkeley.edu (David Wagner) Date: 27 Jun 2002 02:26:41 GMT Subject: Ross's TCPA paper References: <928c41e66854fd5d093509cdcdbddc99@remailer.privacy.at> Message-ID: Anonymous wrote: >The amazing thing about this discussion is that there are two pieces >of conventional wisdom which people in the cypherpunk/EFF/"freedom" >communities adhere to, and they are completely contradictory. I can't agree. Strong protection of copyright is probably possible if the content owner only distributes the content to tamperproof trusted hardware. Strong protection of copyright is probably not possible if the content is available on hardware under control of untrusted parties. Where's the contradiction? Another point you seem to be missing is that there is a middle ground between perfect copy-protection and no copy-protection. This middle ground may be very bad for the public. Take, for instance, Adobe's rot13-class encryption: this offered only weak copy-protection, as any serious pirate could defeat it, but the copy-protection is just strong enough to be bad for fair use and for research, and possibly just strong enough to serve Adobe's corporate interests. >Let us suppose that this is the world ten years from now: you can run a >secure OS in "trusted" mode and be eligible to download movies and music >for a price; or you can run in untrusted mode and no one will let you >download other than bootleg copies. This is the horror, the nightmare >vision which the doom-sayers frantically wave before us. No, it's not. Read Ross Anderson's article again. Your analysis misses part of the point. Here's an example of a more problematic vision: you can buy Microsoft Office for $500 and be able to view MS Office documents; or you can refrain from buying it and you won't be able to view MS Office documents. Do you see why this is problematic? It lets one vendor lock the world into a monopoly; noone else will be able to develop compatible MS Word viewers without the consent of Microsoft. (StarOffice on Linux won't work, because to get the session key to decrypt the Word document your viewer has to go online to microsoft.com and ask for it, but microsoft.com won't give you the key unless you've bought a "secure" "trusted" OS and purchased Microsoft Office for $500.) Now notice that the same idea can be used to inhibit competition in just about any computer market, and I hope you appreciate Ross's point. TCPA/DRM has the potential for anti-competitive effects, and the result may well be worse off than we are today. From uk_members-request at inseadalumni.org Wed Jun 26 19:10:01 2002 From: uk_members-request at inseadalumni.org (uk_members-request at inseadalumni.org) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 03:10:01 +0100 (BST) Subject: Mailman results for Uk_members Message-ID: <20020627021001.295BB32E89@manatoulin.re-think.com> This is an automated response. There were problems with the email commands you sent to Mailman via the administrative address . To obtain instructions on valid Mailman email commands, send email to with the word "help" in the subject line or in the body of the message. If you want to reach the human being that manages this mailing list, please send your message to . The following is a detailed description of the problems. ***** unsubscribe >>>>> Usage: unsubscribe [] Command? This is a request to remove a bogus subscription in which ... Command? is sending its mail to the cypherpunks mailing list. Command? Please remove the address: cypherpunks at ssz.com Command? from your list. >>>>> >>>>> Too many errors encountered; the rest of the message is ignored: > Any questions, please email me at lwp at mail.msen.com. > From tinimbu at diplomats.com Thu Jun 27 03:10:41 2002 From: tinimbu at diplomats.com (Tinimbu Frank.) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 03:10:41 Subject: Urgent Reply. Message-ID: <200206270118.UAA08540@einstein.ssz.com> REQUEST FOR URGENT BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP. THE PRESIDENT CEO, First,I must solicit your strictest confidentiality in this transaction.This is by virtue of its nature as being utterly confidential and 'top secret'. You have been recommended by an associate who assured me in confidence of your ability and reliability to prosecute a transaction of great magnitude involvinga pending business transaction requiring maximum confidence. We are top officials of the Federal Government Contract Review Panel who are interested in importation of goods into our country with fundswhich are presently trapped in Nigeria. In order tocommence this business we solicit your assistance to enable us transfer into your account the said trapped funds. The source of the fund is as follows: During the last Military Regime here in Nigeria,the Government Officials set up companies and awarded themselves contracts which were grossly over-invoiced in their various ministries. The present Government set up a Contract Review Panel and we have identified alot of inflat! ed! contract sums which are presently floatingin the Central Bank of Nigeria ready for payment. However, by virtue of our position as civil servants and members of the panel,we cannot acquire this money in our names.I have therefore been delegated as a matter of trust by my colleagues of the panel to look for an overseas partner into whose account we could transfer the sum of US$21,320,000.00 (Twenty-one Million Three Hundred and Twenty Thousand U.S Dollars). Hence we are writing you this letter. We have agreed to share the money thus; 1. 20% for the Account owner (you) 2. 70% for us (The officials) 3. 10% to be used in settling taxation and all local and foreign expenses. It is from our 70% that we wish to commence the importation business. Please note that this transaction is 100% safe and we hope to commence the transfer latest seven (7)banking days from the date of receipt of the following information by E-mail,your name, your companys name and Address, Telephone and fax nu! mb! ers. The above information will enable us write letters of claim and job description respectively. This way we will use your companys name to apply for payment and re-award the contract in your companys name. We are looking forward to doing this business withyou and solicit your confidentiality in this transaction. Please acknowledge the receipt of this letter using the above E-mail address. I will bring you into the complete picture of this pending project when I shall have heard from you. Yours faithfull Tinimbu Frank. From daw at mozart.cs.berkeley.edu Wed Jun 26 23:55:11 2002 From: daw at mozart.cs.berkeley.edu (David Wagner) Date: 27 Jun 2002 06:55:11 GMT Subject: Ross's TCPA paper References: Message-ID: Mike Rosing wrote: >As long as MS Office isn't mandated by law, who cares? It's not clear that enabling anti-competitive behavior is good for society. After all, there's a reason we have anti-trust law. Ross Anderson's point -- and it seems to me it's one worth considering -- is that, if there are potentially harmful effects that come with the beneficial effects, maybe we should think about them in advance. From mdpopescu at subdimension.com Thu Jun 27 03:51:03 2002 From: mdpopescu at subdimension.com (Marcel Popescu) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 13:51:03 +0300 Subject: Ross's TCPA paper References: <1024951516.21398.74.camel@yeltsin.mthink> <200206251536.g5PFa2T22804@samsara.law.cwru.edu> <15641.62476.320914.253885@sandrock.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <005901c21dc8$882424d0$a36e9cd9@mark> From: > As a side note, it seems that a corporation would actually have to > demonstrate that I had seen and agreed to the thing and clicked > acceptance. Prior to that point, I could reverse engineer, since > there is no statement that I cannot reverse engineer agreed to. So > what would happen if I reverse engineered the installation so that the > agreement that was display stated that I could do what I liked with > the software? Ok, so there would be no mutual intent, but on the > other hand, there would also be no agreement on the click-through > agreement either. I have an application that replaces the caption on the "I agree" button to your liking; I wrote it exactly because of this reasoning. http://picosoft.freeservers.com/NoLicense.htm Of course, it's a stupid little program, I'm sure anyone can come up with something better in no time... BTW, for any lawyers around here - shouldn't the mere existence of this program be enough to blow up the idea that you agreed to the click-through stuff? Mark From mdpopescu at subdimension.com Thu Jun 27 07:40:27 2002 From: mdpopescu at subdimension.com (Marcel Popescu) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 17:40:27 +0300 Subject: Diffie-Hellman and MITM Message-ID: <020901c21de8$946c0300$a36e9cd9@mark> Is there a defense against MITM for Diffie-Hellman? Is there another protocol with equivalent properties, with such a defense? (Secure communications between two parties, with no shared secret and no out-of-band abilities, on an insecure network.) Thanks, Mark From funhappyfree at hotmail.com Thu Jun 27 16:33:01 2002 From: funhappyfree at hotmail.com (Steve) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 18:33:01 -0500 Subject: Hi Message-ID: <200206272333.g5RNX0kf026228@ak47.algebra.com> Steven W. Pratt, Jr, Father, Success coach, business owner, investor I have nothing to sell, but this FREE valuable email could change your life so PLEASE READ CAREFULLY!!! I was a Physical therapist. Sounds great but I was more than $200,000 in Debt! I had to do something different. 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Please share your gifts, if you do you will begin to see success financially, spiritually, emotionally, physically, and even in your relationships. My personal gift is helping other people achieve financial independence . I want to create a world of financially free families. Here is my Personal Declaration of independence: (use it if it helps you) 혫When in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for each person to dissolve the economic bonds that tie us to dead-end jobs and unwanted bosses, it behooves each of us to pursue excellence, personal fulfillment and financial independence through Free Enterprise. I hold these truths to be self-evident, that Free Enterprise is not the private domain of any one gender, race or religion; furthermore, I fully recognize that I possess certain God-given talents and abilities, among them the ability to think, dream, learn, act, and believe. 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I would love to talk to you about what you are doing, your ideas, and if I can help in anyway I will. If you would like to learn more about me and the ways I have created financial freedom please visit me at www.internetmoneysolutions.com You could be earning an extra stream of residual income in as little as 90 days from today. I know this sounds too good to be true. And it is okay to be skeptical. I am always skeptical when I look at investments and opportunities, but I also keep an open mind so that I don't miss a good deal! With help, training, and with the opportunity to establish a business that fits your needs and personality you will be earning amazing amounts of money. Within 24 months you could be financially free and have gained control over your life. You will call your own shots and be free to travel and spend more time with family and loved ones. You might even think of retiring if you were not having so much fun! Would you like to learn how to do that ? I'm forming a team of committed people who are really serious about their financial future. Only if you are truly interested in financial freedom CON TACT ME VIA Phone 610-842-6318 or by e-mail steve at internetmoneysolutions.com MY WEB SITE: www.internetmoneysolutions.com If you leave me an email or message on my answering machine please provide me the following: Name Phone number E-mail Address if appicable Brief message Sincerely, Steven W. Pratt, Jr P.S If you have so much DEBT you couldn't possibly think about starting a business right now, please contact me and ask me how I Eliminated my debt! 610-842 6318 From coolgear at hotmail.com Fri Jun 28 08:13:58 2002 From: coolgear at hotmail.com (coolgear at hotmail.com) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 23:13:58 -1600 Subject: Lose 21 Pounds In 7 Days 25915 Message-ID: <00004b4b6891$00007ac8$00002a7a@auiswiss.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3650 bytes Desc: not available URL: From danascully13 at hotmail.com Fri Jun 28 08:14:11 2002 From: danascully13 at hotmail.com (danascully13 at hotmail.com) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 23:14:11 -1600 Subject: Lose 22 Pounds In 14 Days 31644 Message-ID: <0000294a2e59$000024c5$00002a7d@aujardin.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3651 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz Thu Jun 27 07:15:57 2002 From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 02:15:57 +1200 (NZST) Subject: Revenge of the WAVEoids: Palladium Clues May Lie In AMD Motherboard Design Message-ID: <200206271415.CAA206015@ruru.cs.auckland.ac.nz> "R. A. Hettinga" writes: >WAVE, some of you might remember, was started by a former NatSemi Chairman >back before the internet got popular. It was going to be a dial-up book-entry- >to-the-screen content control system with special boards and chips patented to >down to it's socks. Think of it as DIVX for PCs, with a similar chance of success (see my earlier post about TCPA being a dumping ground for failed crypto hardware initiatives from various vendors). Its only real contribution is that the WAVEoid board on Ragingbull (alongside the Rambus one) is occasionally amusing to read, mostly because it shows that the dot-com sharemarket situation would be better investigated by the DEA than the FTC. Peter. --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From c_vluggen1 at hotmail.com Fri Jun 28 04:06:44 2002 From: c_vluggen1 at hotmail.com (c_vluggen1) Date: Fri,28 Jun 2002 04:06:44 PM Subject: Nieuw - Tekstdocument Message-ID: <200206280213.VAA24458@einstein.ssz.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 415 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Nieuw - Tekstdocument.zip Type: application/octet-stream Size: 28860 bytes Desc: not available URL: From eresrch at eskimo.com Fri Jun 28 06:04:45 2002 From: eresrch at eskimo.com (Mike Rosing) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 06:04:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Diffie-Hellman and MITM In-Reply-To: <0fe701c21e85$e2347ed0$a36e9cd9@mark> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Jun 2002, Marcel Popescu wrote: > Well... I assume an active MITM (like my ISP). He's able to intercept my > public key request and change it. Plus, I now realize I should have put an > even harder condition - no previously shared *information*, even if it's > public. I need to know if two complete strangers can communicate securely > over an insecure network, even if they communicate through an untrusted > party. Wasn't there a protocol for two prisoners communicating through an > untrusted guard? Can't be done. You must have multiple channels, and you need to hope that all of them can't be spoofed. A phone call, a newspaper ad, a bill board, a satallite link, any one of them might be spoofed. But to spoof *all* of them would be very hard. If you use some kind of "security by obscurity" method, you can do something once. but for general security, it's not possible to just go via the net without an out-of-band check. A public posting of the key id is a pretty safe way for a large company or organization. A .sig with your key id is another good way, it leaves traces all over the net for a long time. The point is that you have to leave some kind of trace that's checkable via an effective alternate channel. Otherwise, the MITM wins. Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike From schear at lvcm.com Fri Jun 28 07:37:12 2002 From: schear at lvcm.com (Steve Schear) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 07:37:12 -0700 Subject: Told You So (was "Ross's TCPA paper") In-Reply-To: <00aa01c21a5a$3aff1690$206694d1@LUCKYVAIO> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020628073547.048cb4b8@pop3.lvcm.com> Told You So Alas, a Couple of Bob's Dire Predictions Have Come True By Robert X. Cringely Just over three years ago I wrote a column titled "Cooking the Books: How Clever Accounting Techniques are Used to Make Internet Millionaires." It explained how telecom companies were using accounting tricks to create revenue where there really was none. Take another look at the column (it's among the links on the "I Like It" page), and think of Worldcom with its recently revealed $3.7 billion in hidden expenses. Then last August, I wrote a column titled "The Death of TCP/IP: Why the Age of Internet Innocence is Over." Take a look at that column, too, and think about Microsoft's just-revealed project called Palladium. http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20020627.html From tonyokeke at jordanmail.com Fri Jun 28 05:54:58 2002 From: tonyokeke at jordanmail.com (TONY OKEKE) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 07:54:58 -0500 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <200206280657.BAA20547@einstein.ssz.com> NIGERIA NATIONAL PETROLEUM CORPORATION PETROLEUM AND PROJECT DIVISION TEL: +234-1-4702516,FAX: +234-1-4400023 P.M.B 2071, LAGOS - NIGERIA. 28TH JUNE, 2002 tonyokeke at jordanmail.com DEAR SIR This letter is not intended to cause any embarrassment in whatever form, rather is compelled to contact your esteemed self, following the knowledge of your high repute and trustworthiness. Firstly, I must solicit your confidentiality, this is by the virtue of its' nature as being utterly confidential and top secret though I know that a transaction of this magnitude will make anyone apprehensive and worried, but I am assuring you that all will be well at the end of the day. A bold step taken shall not be regretted I assure you. I am Mr. Tony Okeke and I head a seven man tender board in charge of contract awards and payment approvals, I came to know of you in search of a reliable and reputable person to handle a very confidential business transaction which involves the transfer of a huge sum of money to foreign account requiring maximum confidence. My colleagues and I are top officials of the NIGERIA NATIONAL PETROLEUM CORPORATION {NNPC}. OUR DUTIES INCLUDE VETTING, EVALUATION AND FORESEEING THE MAINTENANCE OF THE REFINERIES IN ALL THE DESIGNATED OIL PIPELINES. We are therefore soliciting for your assistance to enable us transfer into your account the said funds. Our country losses a lot of money everyday that is why the international community is very careful and warning their citizens to be careful but I tell you "A TRIAL WILL CONVINCE YOU". The source of the fund is as follows; during the last military regime here in Nigeria this committee awarded a contract of US$400million to a group of five construction companies on behalf of the NIGERIA NATIONAL PETROLEUM CORPORATION for the construction of the oil pipelines in Kaduna, Port-Harcourt, Warri refineries. During this process my colleagues and I deliberately inflated the total contract sum to the tune US$428million with the intention of sharing the inflated sum of US$28. The government has since approved the sum of US$428 for us as the contract sum, but since the contract is only worth US$400million, the remaining US$28million is what we intend to transfer to reliable and safe offshore account, we are prohibited to operate foreign account in our names since we are still in government. Thus, making it impossible for us to acquire the money in our name right now, I have therefore been delegated as a matter of trust by my colleagues to look for an oversea partner into whose account we can transfer the sum of US$28million. My colleagues and I have decided that if you/your company can be the beneficiary of this funds on our behalf, you or your company will retain 20% of the total sum US$28million while 75% will be for us the officials and remaining 5% will be used for offsetting all debts/expenses incurred during this transaction. We have decided that this transaction can only proceed under the following conditions: 1. That you treat this transaction with utmost secrecy and confidentiality and conviction of your transparent honesty. 2. That upon the receipt of the funds you will release the funds as instructed by us after you have removed your share of 20%. Please acknowledge the receipt of this letter using the above telephone and fax numbers. I will bring you into the nomenclature of this transaction when I have heard from you. Your urgent response will be highly appreciated as we catching on the next payment schedule for the financial quarter. Please be assured that this transaction is 100% legal/risk free, only trust can make the reality of this transaction. Best Regards, MR. TONY OKEKE From atinelnalraula at hotmail.com Fri Jun 28 19:21:08 2002 From: atinelnalraula at hotmail.com (Hellen Kearsley) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 09:21:08 -1700 Subject: Teeth bleach kit sold by dentists online! 18452 Message-ID: <00004e156ce2$00002361$000028a2@mx14.hotmail.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 5676 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fsti at aol.com Fri Jun 28 07:22:05 2002 From: fsti at aol.com (fsti at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 09:22:05 -0500 Subject: Investment News Message-ID: <0w3wce6tb47g4v6.a0y20r6umejt@mx.cais.net> 6/28/2002 9:22:05 AM Breaking Market News Alerting Traders to Overlooked & Undervalued Stocks FreeStar Technologies PaySafeNow Electronic Payment System Adopted by Radio Shack and Casinos --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Did you turn a 100% gain in May? If you would have bought MGCN you could have! Many low-priced stocks provided Huge Gain Opportunities for investors who capitalized ond jumped on them early enough.New stock opportunities exist every single trading day! We believe FreeStar Technologies Inc. has explosive potential. The company has been Producing. In may alone they announced that thier product "PaySafeNow" is going to be used by Casinos and Radio Shack! Who is next? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Symbol OTCBB: FSTI href="http://moneycentral.msn.com/scripts/webquote.dll?iPage=lqd&Symbol=fsti Shares outstanding: 45,464,000 Float: 20.600,000 Rating: 10 Current Price: $0.08 52 week high: $0.84 *** Corporate Snapshot *** Freestar Technologies Inc. (OTCBB:FSTI) Corporate headquarters is located in New York City, They have a continental headquarters in Santo Domingo and Dublin Ireland FreeStar Technologies is focused on exploiting a first to market advantage for enabling ATM and debit card transactions on the internet. Their PaySafeNow Electronic payment System is providing a safe and secure method of e-commerce that benefits both the consumer and merchant with the proliferation of Identity Theft and Internet Fraud it is a valuble solution to current wows. The need for a secure and safe transaction method is extremely desirable in the competitive and hugely profitable casino industry. With millions resting on a single card or roll of the dice casinos nedd to know they can provide piece of mind to their customers and shareholders. So what makes the product so desirable? Enhanced Transactional Secure Software ("ETSS") is a proprietary software package that empowers consumers to accomplish secure e-commerce transactions on the internet using credit,debit ATM,(with pin) or smart cards. The ETSS system intergrates a consumer-side card-swipe terminal with a back-end host processing center. We have Given FSTI our highest rating a BIG 10 For the following reasons: - High Prestige, volume and visibility. - Customers Radio Shack, Sky International will help get the company noticed. - A right place at the right time product. - The internet is not showing any signs of slowing down. - Amazon and other online vendors are making profits. - Buying from the internet is not just a geek thing anymore. - People are becoming comfortable but careful PaySafeNow provides ease and security. Freestar Technologies PaySafeNow provides peace of mind for the merchant and the customer. Merchants realize that revenue and sales will increase if customers feel "secure" in their transactions. Merchants will pay for that security We think they will pay FreeStar and revenues will show it. The information, opinions and analysis contained herein are based on sources believed to be reliable but no representation, expressed or implied, is made as to its accuracy, completeness or correctness.  Past performance is no guarantee of future results. This report is for information purposes only and should not be used as the basis for any investment decision. DCM has been compensated for distribution of this report in the amount of $25,000 This compensation constitutes a conflict of interest as to DCM's ability to remain objective in its communication regarding the subject company.  by Rule 17b of the Securities Act of 1933/1934. DCM is not an investment advisor and this report is not investment advice.  This information is neither a solicitation to buy nor an offer to sell securities.  Information contained herein contains forward-looking statements and is subject to significant risks and uncertainties, which will affect the results.  The opinio! ns! contained herein reflect our current judgment and are subject to change without notice. DCM and/or its affiliates, associates and employees from time to time may have either a long or short position in securities mentioned.  Information contained herein may not be reproduced in whole or in part without the express written consent of DCM. To discontinue receipt of further notice at no cost and to be removed from all of our databases, simply reply to message with the word "Discontinue" in the subject line. .062702 IZ3 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 7139 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bill.stewart at pobox.com Fri Jun 28 09:51:09 2002 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 09:51:09 -0700 Subject: DOJ proposes US data-rentention law. In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020622182232.01f26900@postoffice.esoteric.ca> References: <200206222137.RAA2724348@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.1.20020628093425.049f9e88@idiom.com> At 06:38 PM 06/22/2002 -0400, Steve Fulton wrote: >At 17:37 22/06/2002 -0400, geer at world.std.com wrote: > >>Not arguing, but the hardware cost curve for storage has a shorter >>halving time than the cost curve for CPU (Moore's Law) and the >>corresponding halving time for bandwidth is shorter still. > >You've got a point. Storage is becoming less and less expensive per >gigabyte, especially for IDE drives. If you're using a RAID set up, IDE >doesn't cut it, SCSI is the way to go (for now). SCSI is a lot cheaper >than it used to be, but it's still over $1000 for a single 70gig drive in >Canada. For maximum redundancy in one rack-mount server, RAID 10 is the >way to go. That means for every 1 drive, there must be an an exact >duplicate. Costs can increase exponentially. [more examples of expensiveness deleted; fibre channel, etc.] You're not making appropriate technology choices, so your costs are off by a factor of 5-10. IDE is just fine, especially in RAID configurations, because if you're making a scalable system, you can use as many spindles as you need, and you don't need to run fully mirrored systems - RAID5 is fine. Almost any technology you get can run 5MB/sec, which is T3 speeds, so that RAID5 system can keep up with an OC3 with no problem. Disk drive prices here in the US are about $1/GB for IDE. The problem is that's about 200 seconds of T3 time, so your 5 100GB drives will last about a day before you take them offline for tape backup. The real constraints become how fast you can copy to tape, i.e. how many tape drives you need to buy, and what fraction of data you keep. If it's 1%, you can afford it - adding $5/day = $150/month per T3 is just noise. Keeping 10% of the bits - $50/day = $1500/month/T3 - is a non-trivial fraction of your cost, so you have to go for tape. Fibre channels are useful for cutting-edge databases on mainframes, and have the entertaining property that they can go 10-20km, so you've got more choices for offsite backup, but GigE is fine here. Make sure you also keep a couple of legacy media devices so you can give the government the records they want in FIPS-specified formats, such as Hollerith cards and 9-track tape..... From bill.stewart at pobox.com Fri Jun 28 09:53:53 2002 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 09:53:53 -0700 Subject: DOJ proposes US data-rentention law. In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020622182232.01f26900@postoffice.esoteric.ca> <200206222137.RAA2724348@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.1.20020628095141.049d38e8@idiom.com> At 07:02 PM 06/22/2002 -0700, John Young wrote: >.... >3. At major providers serving a slew of smaller ISPs. In this case I >reported a while back of a sysadmin telling what my ISP, NTT/Verio, >is doing at its major node in Dallas: allowing the FBI to freely scan >everything that passes through the Verio system under an agreement >reached with NTT when it bought Verio. That's especially tacky, considering that NTT bought Verio which had bought Best which had bought The Little Garden which was the businessified version of The Little Garden internet co-op which John Gilmore and Hugh Daniel helped found.... From abelseko at rediffmail.com Fri Jun 28 10:23:20 2002 From: abelseko at rediffmail.com (ABEL SESESEKOH) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 10:23:20 -0700 Subject: UTMOST IMPORTANCE Message-ID: <200206280922.g5S9M0kf016569@ak47.algebra.com> From: MRS M SESE SEKO DEAR FRIEND, I AM MRS. SESE-SEKO WIDOW OF LATE PRESIDENT MOBUTU SESE-SEKO OF ZAIRE? NOW KNOWN AS DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO (DRC). I AM MOVED TO WRITE YOU THIS LETTER, THIS WAS IN CONFIDENCE CONSIDERING MY PRESENT CIRCUMSTANCE AND SITUATION. I ESCAPED ALONG WITH MY HUSBAND AND TWO OF OUR SONS ABEL AND BASHER OUT OF DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO (DRC) TO ABIDJAN, COTE D'IVOIRE WHERE MY FAMILY AND I SETTLED, WHILE WE LATER MOVED TO SETTLED IN MORROCO WHERE MY HUSBAND LATER DIED OF CANCER DISEASE. HOWEVER DUE TO THIS SITUATION WE DECIDED TO CHANGED MOST OF MY HUSBAND'S BILLIONS OF DOLLARS DEPOSITED IN SWISS BANK AND OTHER COUNTRIES INTO OTHER FORMS OF MONEY CODED FOR SAFE PURPOSE BECAUSE THE NEW HEAD OF STATE OF (DR) MR LAURENT KABILA HAS MADE ARRANGEMENT WITH THE SWISS GOVERNMENT AND OTHER EUROPEAN COUNTRIES TO FREEZE ALL MY LATE HUSBAND'S TREASURES DEPOSITED IN SOME EUROPEAN COUNTRIES. HENCE MY CHILDREN AND I DECIDED LAYING LOW IN AFRICA TO STUDY THE SITUATION TILL WHEN THINGS GETS BETTER, LIKE NOW THAT PRESIDENT KABILA IS DEAD AND THE SON TAKING OVER (JOSEPH KABILA). ONE OF MY LATE HUSBAND'S CHATEAUX IN SOUTHERN FRANCE WAS CONFISCATED BY THE FRENCH GOVERNMENT, AND AS SUCH I HAD TO CHANGE MY IDENTITY SO THAT MY INVESTMENT WILL NOT BE TRACED AND CONFISCATED. I HAVE DEPOSITED THE SUM TWENTY-SIX MILLION UNITED STATE DOLLARS(US$26,000,000,00.) WITH A SECURITY COMPANY , FOR SAFEKEEPING. THE FUNDS ARE SECURITY CODED TO PREVENT THEM FROM KNOWING THE CONTENT. WHAT I WANT YOU TO DO IS TO INDICATE YOUR INTEREST THAT YOU WILL ASSIST US BY RECEIVING THE MONEY ON OUR BEHALF.ACKNOWLEDGE THIS MESSAGE, SO THAT I CAN INTRODUCE YOU TO MY SON (SOLOMON) WHO HAS THE OUT MODALITIES FOR THE CLAIM OF THE SAID FUNDS. I WANT YOU TO ASSIST IN INVESTING THIS MONEY, BUT I WILL NOT WANT MY IDENTITY REVEALED. I WILL ALSO WANT TO BUY PROPERTIES AND STOCK IN MULTI-NATIONAL COMPANIES AND TO ENGAGE IN OTHER SAFE AND NON-SPECULATIVE INVESTMENTS. MAY I AT THIS POINT EMPHASISE THE HIGH LEVEL OF CONFIDENTIALITY, WHICH THIS BUSINESS DEMANDS, AND HOPE YOU WILL NOT BETRAY THE TRUST AND CONFIDENCE, WHICH I REPOSE IN YOU. IN CONCLUSION, IF YOU WANT TO ASSIST US , MY SON SHALL PUT YOU IN THE PICTURE OF THE BUSINESS, TELL YOU WHERE THE FUNDS ARE CURRENTLY BEING MAINTAINED AND ALSO DISCUSS OTHER MODALITIES INCLUDING REMUNERATION FOR YOUR SERVICES. FOR THIS REASON KINDLY FURNISH US YOUR CONTACT INFORMATION, THAT IS YOUR PERSONAL TELEPHONE AND FAX NUMBER FOR CONFIDENTIAL PURPOSE. BEST REGARDS, MRS M. SESE SEKO From abelseko at rediffmail.com Fri Jun 28 10:23:29 2002 From: abelseko at rediffmail.com (ABEL SESESEKOH) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 10:23:29 -0700 Subject: UTMOST IMPORTANCE Message-ID: <200206280929.EAA09869@einstein.ssz.com> From: MRS M SESE SEKO DEAR FRIEND, I AM MRS. SESE-SEKO WIDOW OF LATE PRESIDENT MOBUTU SESE-SEKO OF ZAIRE? NOW KNOWN AS DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO (DRC). I AM MOVED TO WRITE YOU THIS LETTER, THIS WAS IN CONFIDENCE CONSIDERING MY PRESENT CIRCUMSTANCE AND SITUATION. I ESCAPED ALONG WITH MY HUSBAND AND TWO OF OUR SONS ABEL AND BASHER OUT OF DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO (DRC) TO ABIDJAN, COTE D'IVOIRE WHERE MY FAMILY AND I SETTLED, WHILE WE LATER MOVED TO SETTLED IN MORROCO WHERE MY HUSBAND LATER DIED OF CANCER DISEASE. HOWEVER DUE TO THIS SITUATION WE DECIDED TO CHANGED MOST OF MY HUSBAND'S BILLIONS OF DOLLARS DEPOSITED IN SWISS BANK AND OTHER COUNTRIES INTO OTHER FORMS OF MONEY CODED FOR SAFE PURPOSE BECAUSE THE NEW HEAD OF STATE OF (DR) MR LAURENT KABILA HAS MADE ARRANGEMENT WITH THE SWISS GOVERNMENT AND OTHER EUROPEAN COUNTRIES TO FREEZE ALL MY LATE HUSBAND'S TREASURES DEPOSITED IN SOME EUROPEAN COUNTRIES. HENCE MY CHILDREN AND I DECIDED LAYING LOW IN AFRICA TO STUDY THE SITUATION TILL WHEN THINGS GETS BETTER, LIKE NOW THAT PRESIDENT KABILA IS DEAD AND THE SON TAKING OVER (JOSEPH KABILA). ONE OF MY LATE HUSBAND'S CHATEAUX IN SOUTHERN FRANCE WAS CONFISCATED BY THE FRENCH GOVERNMENT, AND AS SUCH I HAD TO CHANGE MY IDENTITY SO THAT MY INVESTMENT WILL NOT BE TRACED AND CONFISCATED. I HAVE DEPOSITED THE SUM TWENTY-SIX MILLION UNITED STATE DOLLARS(US$26,000,000,00.) WITH A SECURITY COMPANY , FOR SAFEKEEPING. THE FUNDS ARE SECURITY CODED TO PREVENT THEM FROM KNOWING THE CONTENT. WHAT I WANT YOU TO DO IS TO INDICATE YOUR INTEREST THAT YOU WILL ASSIST US BY RECEIVING THE MONEY ON OUR BEHALF.ACKNOWLEDGE THIS MESSAGE, SO THAT I CAN INTRODUCE YOU TO MY SON (SOLOMON) WHO HAS THE OUT MODALITIES FOR THE CLAIM OF THE SAID FUNDS. I WANT YOU TO ASSIST IN INVESTING THIS MONEY, BUT I WILL NOT WANT MY IDENTITY REVEALED. I WILL ALSO WANT TO BUY PROPERTIES AND STOCK IN MULTI-NATIONAL COMPANIES AND TO ENGAGE IN OTHER SAFE AND NON-SPECULATIVE INVESTMENTS. MAY I AT THIS POINT EMPHASISE THE HIGH LEVEL OF CONFIDENTIALITY, WHICH THIS BUSINESS DEMANDS, AND HOPE YOU WILL NOT BETRAY THE TRUST AND CONFIDENCE, WHICH I REPOSE IN YOU. IN CONCLUSION, IF YOU WANT TO ASSIST US , MY SON SHALL PUT YOU IN THE PICTURE OF THE BUSINESS, TELL YOU WHERE THE FUNDS ARE CURRENTLY BEING MAINTAINED AND ALSO DISCUSS OTHER MODALITIES INCLUDING REMUNERATION FOR YOUR SERVICES. FOR THIS REASON KINDLY FURNISH US YOUR CONTACT INFORMATION, THAT IS YOUR PERSONAL TELEPHONE AND FAX NUMBER FOR CONFIDENTIAL PURPOSE. BEST REGARDS, MRS M. SESE SEKO From marshall at idio.com Fri Jun 28 10:56:30 2002 From: marshall at idio.com (Marshall Clow) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 10:56:30 -0700 Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Pretty good summary in NTK > Lot of talk this week about Microsoft's new bluesky project: > In the softest of previews in Newsweek, Steven Levy banged > on about PALLADIUM, alluding to the sacred (but as it turns > out, a bit horse-blind) guardian of Troy. British readers > will know the term better as the fancy West End theatre that > spawned Beatlemania and now shows overpriced performances of > "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang". Figures: either way, you're not > getting in, and we're not sure you'd want to. In a > (cryptographically hardened) nutshell: Microsoft's Palladium > will be an area of your future PC, fenced off and unreadable > except for trusted software. "Untrusted" apps won't have > have access. And how does code gain Palladium's trust? By > having you, the PC owner, sanction its entry? Oh no. > *You're* untrustworthy - you might sign in your dodgy CD and > DVD ripping programs. No, this area will only be for > software sanctioned by Microsoft and their paying friends - > Hollywood-approved media players, for instance. No backstage > pass for you at this Palladium, even though you own the damn > theatre. As Ross Anderson points out in his FAQ, "Palladium" > is just Microsoft's fancy name for the old "Trusted PC" > initiative. And the only reason why they need to trust the > PC is: they don't trust its owner. Remember that when the > hard sell begins: the only person Palladium protects your > computer from - is you. > http://www.msnbc.com/news/770511.asp > - Levy ensuring that RMS *stays* "the Last Hacker" > http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/rja14/tcpa-faq.html > - Ross Anderson, Cassandra to this tale > http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,274309,00.asp > - hold on: this project is headed by someone called Juarez? > http://www.alt2600.com/faqs/ > - is that some kind of joke? -- -- Marshall Marshall Clow Idio Software My name is Boba Fett. You killed my father, prepare to die! From nymious at yahoo.com Fri Jun 28 11:07:04 2002 From: nymious at yahoo.com (Nymious) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 11:07:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Diffie-Hellman and MITM Message-ID: <20020628180704.26332.qmail@web13709.mail.yahoo.com> IMHO ... the MQV key exchange is an excelelnt choice. It would be commonly used if it were not for the patents :-( > -----Original Message----- > From: Marcel Popescu [mailto:mdpopescu at subdimension.com] > Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 7:40 AM > To: cypherpunks at lne.com > Subject: Diffie-Hellman and MITM > > > Is there a defense against MITM for Diffie-Hellman? Is there another > protocol with equivalent properties, with such a defense? (Secure > communications between two parties, with no shared secret and > no out-of-band > abilities, on an insecure network.) > > Thanks, > Mark > > http://grouper.ieee.org/groups/1363/ Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From lloyd at acm.jhu.edu Fri Jun 28 08:09:33 2002 From: lloyd at acm.jhu.edu (Jack Lloyd) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 11:09:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Diffie-Hellman and MITM In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Mike Rosing wrote: > On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Marcel Popescu wrote: > > > Is there a defense against MITM for Diffie-Hellman? Is there another > > protocol with equivalent properties, with such a defense? (Secure > > communications between two parties, with no shared secret and no out-of-band > > abilities, on an insecure network.) > > What do you mean by no shared secret? The point of DH is that you > get a shared secret. I think the original poster meant no shared secrets at the beginning of the protocol. > Check out MQV protocol for MITM defense and forward secrecy. It > uses permenent public keys and ephemeral public keys for each > session. In any protocol, the out-of-band check of the public > keys is still a "good thing". You can also do this with DH (use a pair of DH keys, one long term and the other for that single exchange). IEEE 1363 includes this as well as MQV. I don't know how the security compares between these two options, though. -J From mdpopescu at subdimension.com Fri Jun 28 02:26:29 2002 From: mdpopescu at subdimension.com (Marcel Popescu) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 12:26:29 +0300 Subject: Diffie-Hellman and MITM References: Message-ID: <0fe701c21e85$e2347ed0$a36e9cd9@mark> From: "Mike Rosing" > > Is there a defense against MITM for Diffie-Hellman? Is there another > > protocol with equivalent properties, with such a defense? (Secure > > communications between two parties, with no shared secret and no out-of-band > > abilities, on an insecure network.) > > What do you mean by no shared secret? The point of DH is that you > get a shared secret. I guess I should have said "no *previously* shared secret". > Check out MQV protocol for MITM defense and forward secrecy. It > uses permenent public keys and ephemeral public keys for each > session. In any protocol, the out-of-band check of the public > keys is still a "good thing". Well... I assume an active MITM (like my ISP). He's able to intercept my public key request and change it. Plus, I now realize I should have put an even harder condition - no previously shared *information*, even if it's public. I need to know if two complete strangers can communicate securely over an insecure network, even if they communicate through an untrusted party. Wasn't there a protocol for two prisoners communicating through an untrusted guard? Thanks, Mark From mv at cdc.gov Fri Jun 28 12:27:31 2002 From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret)) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 12:27:31 -0700 Subject: Judge strikes law citing 'terrorist' groups Message-ID: <3D1CB8A2.910ACB06@cdc.gov> Judge strikes law citing 'terrorist' groups http://www.washtimes.com/world/20020627-595079.htm By Ben Barber THE WASHINGTON TIMES A U.S. law authorizing the State Department to designate groups as "terrorist" and which allows those who support them to be prosecuted has been declared unconstitutional by a federal judge, throwing U.S. anti-terrorism strategies into disarray. A U.S. official who has been dealing with the issue said yesterday there will be "serious problems" if the decision stands on appeal. The U.S. government could no longer use the existing law to prosecute those who give "material support" to groups on the list such as Hamas, al Qaeda, Islamic Jihad and Hezbollah. U.S. District Judge Robert M. Takasugi in Los Angeles ruled against the Justice Department in the little-noticed decision last week, declaring the 1996 law "unconstitutional on its face" since it does not allow the suspect groups to challenge the terrorist designation. From hseaver at cybershamanix.com Fri Jun 28 11:31:45 2002 From: hseaver at cybershamanix.com (Harmon Seaver) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 13:31:45 -0500 Subject: mount filesystem and run a program when hotplugged In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020628183145.GB19920@cybershamanix.com> Never tried it with USB, but use autofs a lot -- look at your /etc/auto.master and /etc/auto.misc files. I use "crypt -fstype=reiserfs :/dev/loop0" in /etc/auto.misc to automount an encrypted loop device. The user that owns that filesystem can just cd to it and it mounts automagically, to others it's not even there. That is, there's nothing in the /misc/ dir until I cd into /misc/crypt and it self unmounts if you aren't in it for so long, however long you set the timeout for. You have to have already run the losetup for the loop device, of course, and all that. Autofs works fine for automounting floppys and pccards as well, don't know why it wouldn't work for USB drives. Getting it to run a shell script when mounted shouldn't be that hard. On Fri, Jun 28, 2002 at 05:29:17PM +0200, Eugen Leitl wrote: > I've bought me a little (32 MBytes) hotpluggable USB flash stick (a > TrekStor). It mounts fine, but what I'd like to do is to automount it, and > fire up a program (I intend to put my keyring on it) if hotplugged. > > The system I'm testing this on is RH 7.3. > > I've been using mount -t vfat /dev/sda /mnt/usbhd to mount it manually and > put diverse entries into /etc/fstab, to no avail. Any suggestions? -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com From zenadsl6186 at zen.co.uk Fri Jun 28 09:02:43 2002 From: zenadsl6186 at zen.co.uk (Peter Fairbrother) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 17:02:43 +0100 Subject: Stick this up... In-Reply-To: <200206271415.CAA206015@ruru.cs.auckland.ac.nz> Message-ID: On the subject of trusted hardware: m-o-o-t does this, by booting and running from a verified CD on an ordinary PC/Mac box. No expensive chips. BTW, there was a M$ patent for Tsomewhere, can I claim prior? We're getting close to anonymity (PA). Too. :) Nah, that's not big enough. SMILE! Add that to the mix, remembering that TYABBAYABBA won't work 100%, and some geeky people will be able to redistribute *m*o*v*i*e*s* without being caught. Then their friends will do so too (their friends), and if it's anonymous.... (and I mean _really_ anonymous...) I'm going to buy some more of this fine beer now. I'll probably wish I hadn't posted this, at some time in the future. Peter -- peter at m-o-o-t.org http://www.m-o-o-t.org ps no-one has commented on my one-way-functions post. Either you're all mathematicians, or you don't care. From eugen at leitl.org Fri Jun 28 08:29:17 2002 From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 17:29:17 +0200 (CEST) Subject: mount filesystem and run a program when hotplugged Message-ID: I've bought me a little (32 MBytes) hotpluggable USB flash stick (a TrekStor). It mounts fine, but what I'd like to do is to automount it, and fire up a program (I intend to put my keyring on it) if hotplugged. The system I'm testing this on is RH 7.3. I've been using mount -t vfat /dev/sda /mnt/usbhd to mount it manually and put diverse entries into /etc/fstab, to no avail. Any suggestions? From tonyokeke at jordanmail.com Fri Jun 28 15:42:00 2002 From: tonyokeke at jordanmail.com (TONY OKEKE) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 17:42:00 -0500 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <200206281644.LAA28453@einstein.ssz.com> NIGERIA NATIONAL PETROLEUM CORPORATION PETROLEUM AND PROJECT DIVISION TEL: +234-1-4702516,FAX: +234-1-4400023 P.M.B 2071, LAGOS - NIGERIA. 28TH JUNE, 2002 tonyokeke at jordanmail.com DEAR SIR This letter is not intended to cause any embarrassment in whatever form, rather is compelled to contact your esteemed self, following the knowledge of your high repute and trustworthiness. Firstly, I must solicit your confidentiality, this is by the virtue of its' nature as being utterly confidential and top secret though I know that a transaction of this magnitude will make anyone apprehensive and worried, but I am assuring you that all will be well at the end of the day. A bold step taken shall not be regretted I assure you. I am Mr. Tony Okeke and I head a seven man tender board in charge of contract awards and payment approvals, I came to know of you in search of a reliable and reputable person to handle a very confidential business transaction which involves the transfer of a huge sum of money to foreign account requiring maximum confidence. My colleagues and I are top officials of the NIGERIA NATIONAL PETROLEUM CORPORATION {NNPC}. OUR DUTIES INCLUDE VETTING, EVALUATION AND FORESEEING THE MAINTENANCE OF THE REFINERIES IN ALL THE DESIGNATED OIL PIPELINES. We are therefore soliciting for your assistance to enable us transfer into your account the said funds. Our country losses a lot of money everyday that is why the international community is very careful and warning their citizens to be careful but I tell you "A TRIAL WILL CONVINCE YOU". The source of the fund is as follows; during the last military regime here in Nigeria this committee awarded a contract of US$400million to a group of five construction companies on behalf of the NIGERIA NATIONAL PETROLEUM CORPORATION for the construction of the oil pipelines in Kaduna, Port-Harcourt, Warri refineries. During this process my colleagues and I deliberately inflated the total contract sum to the tune US$428million with the intention of sharing the inflated sum of US$28. The government has since approved the sum of US$428 for us as the contract sum, but since the contract is only worth US$400million, the remaining US$28million is what we intend to transfer to reliable and safe offshore account, we are prohibited to operate foreign account in our names since we are still in government. Thus, making it impossible for us to acquire the money in our name right now, I have therefore been delegated as a matter of trust by my colleagues to look for an oversea partner into whose account we can transfer the sum of US$28million. My colleagues and I have decided that if you/your company can be the beneficiary of this funds on our behalf, you or your company will retain 20% of the total sum US$28million while 75% will be for us the officials and remaining 5% will be used for offsetting all debts/expenses incurred during this transaction. We have decided that this transaction can only proceed under the following conditions: 1. That you treat this transaction with utmost secrecy and confidentiality and conviction of your transparent honesty. 2. That upon the receipt of the funds you will release the funds as instructed by us after you have removed your share of 20%. Please acknowledge the receipt of this letter using the above telephone and fax numbers. I will bring you into the nomenclature of this transaction when I have heard from you. Your urgent response will be highly appreciated as we catching on the next payment schedule for the financial quarter. Please be assured that this transaction is 100% legal/risk free, only trust can make the reality of this transaction. Best Regards, MR. TONY OKEKE From rick_smith at securecomputing.com Fri Jun 28 15:47:43 2002 From: rick_smith at securecomputing.com (Rick Smith at Secure Computing) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 17:47:43 -0500 Subject: Palladium: Microsoft Bets the Company Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020628145453.00a573a0@[192.168.12.25]> I have to admit I couldn't understand why, earlier this year, Bill Gates declared that security would be a key element of future Microsoft products. Now it looks like an innovative way to try to dominate the industry again. This is a 'bet the company' strategy. Traditionally Microsoft has pushed third-party flexibility and programmability (subordinated to their own products, of course) over anything else. This allowed them to promote new sales and upgrades based on improved features. By moving to security, however, Microsoft must move away from flexibility. This is risky. Consider a quick history lesson: Why did the Wintel PC prevail over the Mac in the computing community? Answer: economy and flexibility. Question: What do you give up when you implement a hermetically sealed system as is proposed by TCPA and Microsoft's Palladium? Answer: economy and flexibility. Complicated cryptosystems are troublesome beasts. This is probably the main reason PKI is "mostly dead" instead of being the foundation of modern infosec. It's time consuming to get all the keys and permissions in the right places, and it costs money to keep all those bits of the infrastructure working. Remember: to make this work, the TCPA and Palladium people have to operate a bureaucracy to issue certificates, validate software, and do background checks. That drives up costs and it's really hard to do this efficiently. Moreover, hermetically sealed systems like this aren't robust -- they trade off reliability for the protection of the 'protected material.' Things break when you don't expect them to, like the 9/11 recovery workers who had to abandon Windows XP when it died after failing to be properly registered. Your PC crashes more, but you get to watch "Bambi." Gosh. Given that, most people will try to use non-TCPA computers whenever a PC isn't intended as an entertainment nexus. This turns the TCPA/Palladium machines into glorified set-top boxes and perhaps a 21st century Divix. The only hope for TCPA and Palladium is for Congress to outlaw normal computers. Frankly, if grassroots computer users lose that battle, we deserve what we get. And we'd end up with the 21st century version of Prohibition in which people smuggle in large-screen monitors and unfettered motherboards instead of bathtub gin. Rick. smith at securecomputing.com roseville, minnesota "Authentication" in bookstores http://www.smat.us/crypto/ From bill.stewart at pobox.com Fri Jun 28 19:12:57 2002 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 19:12:57 -0700 Subject: Brin In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.1.20020628184123.049eae98@idiom.com> Bob - I'm not sure if you copied David separately/Bcc on your reply, and I've dropped Cc:s to some of your lists that I'm not on, and I missed your original message that David flamed you for which you're flaming back about, but.... Perhaps I've missed some really critical things the time or two that I've read "The Transparent Society", or projected too much liberarian hype into my reading, but to me the big points were - Moore's Law, etc., will make networked cameras so appallingly cheap that that they'll be pretty much universal. It'll do it to other information technologies as well, but the public has an easier time understanding what a camera means than a database, so that's the one to focus on when you're writing popular science. - Usual digressions into what Moore's Law and cheap and universal mean, and some implications about the realism of expecations of privacy that need to be said slowly for people who haven't spent years talking about geodesic economies and therefore don't get it (:-) - Lots of people will be watching you on cameras, either because they feel like it, or because they're watching something else and it's too much trouble to not watch you at the same time. And you'll be watching lots of people or things, for similar reasons, and realistically there's not much that'll stop it. - The government will be watching you, like it or not. Brin spends a while discussing the issue of whether we should try to stop them from doing so through legislation, but basically views it as a lost cause for economic reasons, and all the related reasons of power, convenience, control, etc. (I don't remember how much time he spent on the "even if they ban government from watching you most of the time, they'll always give themselves exemptions even if they bother following the rules, so just get used to it" issue, but it was there. Video's too cheap.) - We might be watching the government, or we might not, and the government are the only major group that can easily make it hard to watch them, because they can throw you in jail if you get in their face, and they've got enough control over their actions to make it difficult to watch them. THIS IS WHERE WE NEED TO FOCUS AS CITIZENS, because if you don't force them to do their work in the sunshine, they won't, and because getting them not to watch you is a lost cause. - Cypherpunks technologies are mostly a lost cause, because Bad Guys (mainly the government) will use them to do their bad things, whereas they can put cameras in your ceiling to watch you type your passwords, hide bugs under your bed (next to the Communists) to listen to the conversations you're having on your EnCryptoPhone, etc. Making sure the government is maximally watchable is more important, and if you say you're allowed to hide your actions, they'll make sure they're allowed to hide theirs, and they're better at this organized coercion thing than you are. Perhaps I'm putting words in Brin's mouth, especially about the latter, but it has seemed to have been the major bone of contention between Brin and various Cypherpunks. Meanwhile, Big Brother *is* increasingly watching us, even if in GeodesicWorld nobody else has bothered paying enough to watch hi-res videos of most of us very often, and BB is trying very hard to make himself much less accountable, because if we can see where George is, we can question him, and if that happens, the Terrorists Have Won... (Meanwhile, the Bush Administration has been promising heavy scrutiny of the Worldcom Debacle, if nothing else because they're so pleased to have dishonesty from somebody who's not in the Oil Business or Military-Industrial Complex for a change.) At 12:54 PM 06/25/2002 -0400, R. A. Hettinga wrote: >I should say, at this point in things, that I've never complained at >all about Brin's heralding some mechanical ubiquity of *observation*, >per se, any more than I complain about the market, celestial >mechanics, or the weather. You can't fight Moore's (or Metcalfe's, or >whoever's) Law, and all that. > >I *do* think that observation done by people of their own property >(call it supervision, I guess), is much better than observation by >states of their own citizens (call that surveillance). In fact, I >would go far enough to say that the former is just plain common >sense, and the latter is the very definition of totalitarianism. >... >Put in less Proustian terms, the *market* for such things will >determine which side will prevail: Monopolistic surveillance with the >"consent" of the "governed", versus the supervision of private >property by a whole swarm of individual market actors. It will not be >decided, as some people seem to want, Dr. Brin among them, >apparently, by having two "monkeys" fight it out in an internet zoo >cage somewhere about who gets to control some pile of intellectual >bananas. From nobody at dizum.com Fri Jun 28 10:20:27 2002 From: nobody at dizum.com (Nomen Nescio) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 19:20:27 +0200 (CEST) Subject: privacy <> digital rights management Message-ID: <0a48434bb4bad36bf0ba49589e990032@dizum.com> Privacy means different things in different contexts. In some cases you have to share data with someone else that you don't want them passing on widely. Medical data is an obvious example. So are credit card numbers. If you order books from Amazon, you have to give them your street address, and you don't necessarily want that shared. This kind of private data, which has to be shared with others, is what can be protected with a DRM system. Let us consider how a TCPA compliant version of Amazon.com can enhance protection of your private data. When you make your first order from Amazon, you have to supply personal data such as credit card and address that you don't want them sharing. Of course they have a privacy policy promising not to do that, but with TCPA we can do better. Suppose Amazon is running TCPA compliant software for their OS and database. Further suppose it is open source. We will see that open source software works even better with TCPA than closed source. Keep in mind that only Amazon is running a TCPA system in this example, the customers are not. But the customers do have TCPA-aware software that they can use to check that Amazon is doing what it claims. Your TCPA-aware software which will upload your personal data to Amazon first requires Amazon to prove that it is running in trusted mode. The TPM chip provides a signed statement showing that Amazon booted into HP's Trusted Linux. This is signed by a key which never leaves the TPM module; the key is certified by a TCPA root key so you know it is a valid TPM key. The signed data includes a hash of the BIOS which was computed by the TPM before booting; a hash of the OS loader module which was computed by the BIOS before transferring control to that module; and a hash of relevant parts of the Trusted Linux OS which was computed by the OS loader before transferring control. Your software can check these hashes against published values which represent known good builds of these software modules. In this way you can know that the remote system is running an unhacked version of Trusted Linux. The Linux software then similarly sends you a certification that it is running the TCPA compliant database application, again including a hash of the application before it was loaded. This open source software has its own published hash of valid builds. This assures you that you are talking to this particular program and no other. The TCPA compliant database program is special in that it has suppressed the large-scale database export features, and it saves the data in encrypted form. No other program will be able to access the data once it is stored because of the encryption. And this program with its missing export feature can only work on records one by one (as well as providing appropriate summary and accounting features). It will not be possible to export the database en masse for importing into an insecure program. Of course, nothing can stop Amazon from entering your credit card data and/or address into another program. They need to see this data in order to perform their normal business functions, and anyone can read it off the screen and type it into another computer. But the point is, they can't do it to the entire database. Amazon has millions of customers. Your data is a needle in that haystack. Business-wise, it makes no sense for Amazon to try to sell your data or illicitly pass it to business partners if they have to do it one record at a time. The important feature to prevent is large-scale export, and the TCPA compliant software is designed so that is impossible. Note how important the open-source element is in this security analysis. With closed source software, we have to trust Microsoft and the database vendor that their software performs as claimed. If the database guys had a secret feature to allow for export, there would be no way for third parties to detect it. But with open source, we have the source code, and we have a guarantee that a program built from that code is being run (we have a hash over the binary file). We can know exactly what the capabilities are of that remote software. The kind of guarantees provided by TCPA are much stronger and more convincing when the source code of the trusted software is publicly available. Surprisingly, TCPA may therefore provide a boost to open source. Note that, as with the earlier DRM analysis, the TCPA in this example exists to help Amazon prove to people that they are behaving honestly. They already have a privacy policy which restricts what they will do with their database. The TCPA lets them provide technical evidence that they are running software which will enforce those same restrictions. It makes it possible for customers to trust Amazon to follow through on their promises with much greater reliability than is possible today. From eresrch at eskimo.com Fri Jun 28 19:23:26 2002 From: eresrch at eskimo.com (Mike Rosing) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 19:23:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: <002e01c21edc$2069fad0$9532a8c0@abc> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Jun 2002, Thomas Tydal wrote: > > Realize that the "trusted" mode of the TCPA will always be only an option, > > Bottom line; not if you want to work with protected content. (Which, >from what I can understand, will include all future songs, movies and >probably word documents and loads of other data as well.) Or am I missing >something? All future songs of *some* companies. As long as it's an option, there will be people out there selling CD's to get their music out. You're not missing anything. The question is: will it always be an option? I hope so. A bunch of huge companies that need encrypted set top boxes tied directly to an HDTV and hard to physically hack means lots of jobs. And they will compete with the markets already in place. So that's more jobs for more engineers. If it's not an option, economics is the least of our problems. Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike From bear at sonic.net Fri Jun 28 19:49:52 2002 From: bear at sonic.net (bear) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 19:49:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: <928c41e66854fd5d093509cdcdbddc99@remailer.privacy.at> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, Anonymous wrote: >The important thing to note is this: you are no worse off than today! >You are already in the second state today: you run untrusted, and none >of the content companies will let you download their data. But boolegs >are widely available. The problem is that the "analog hole" is how we debug stuff. When our speakers don't sound right, we tap the signal, put it on an oscilloscope so we can see what's wrong, correct the drivers, and try again. When our monitor can't make sense of the video signal, it's different equipment but the same idea. When you encrypt all the connections to basic display hardware, as proposed in Palladium, it means nobody can write drivers or debug hardware without a million-dollar license. And if you do fix a bug so your system works better, your system's "trusted computing" system will be shut down. Not that that's any great loss. Likewise, encrypted instruction streams mean you don't know what the hell your CPU is doing. You would have no way to audit a program and make sure it wasn't stealing stuff from you or sending your personal information to someone else. Do we even need to recount how many abuses have been foisted on citizens to harvest marketing data, and exposed after-the- fact by some little-known hero who was looking at the assembly code and went, "Hey look what it's doing here. Why is it accessing the passwords/browser cache/registry/whatever?" Do we want to recount how many times personal data has been exported from customer's machines by "adware" that hoped not to be noticed? Or how popup ads get downloaded by software that has nothing to do with what website people are actually looking at? I don't want to give vendors a tunnel in and out of my system that I can't monitor. I want to be able to shut it down and nail it shut with a hardware switch. I don't want to ever run source code that people are so ashamed of that they don't want me to be able to check and see what it does; I want to nail that mode of my CPU off so that no software can turn it on EVER. I'll skip the digital movies if need be, but to me "trusted computing" means that *I* can trust my computer, not that someone else can. Bear --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From dev at tydal.nu Fri Jun 28 12:43:48 2002 From: dev at tydal.nu (Thomas Tydal) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 21:43:48 +0200 Subject: Ross's TCPA paper References: <928c41e66854fd5d093509cdcdbddc99@remailer.privacy.at> Message-ID: <002e01c21edc$2069fad0$9532a8c0@abc> > Let us suppose that this is the world ten years from now: you can run a > secure OS in "trusted" mode and be eligible to download movies and music > for a price; or you can run in untrusted mode and no one will let you > download other than bootleg copies. This is the horror, the nightmare > vision which the doom-sayers frantically wave before us. > The important thing to note is this: you are no worse off than today! Well, first I want to say that I don't like the way it is today. I want things to get better. I can't read e-books on my pocket computer, for example, which is sad since I actually would be able to enjoy e-books if I only could load them onto my small computer that follows my everywhere. Yes, of course I could probably bypass the protection and make the e-book readable if I really wanted to, but I honestly don't want to. Besides the Sklyarov case I don't feel I should need to crack things I have legally purchased. Second, what about CD's? Today I can buy music on CD's and use the sound the way I want. I can put it in my MP3 player and I can practically do anything with it using a wave editor. But what about the future? Would they sell unprotected versions of any album so I can listen to and process music with the program of my choice? > You will still be able to use your system in exactly the same ways that > you use it today; you will be able to run all of the software that you > run today. But not with the same data. How good is Winamp if it can't play any music recorded in 2004 or later? Given that Windows Media Player can play all your tunes and it takes a reboot to switch to Winamp, who wouldn't stick with WMP? And remember that Microsoft encourages us to protect our own files and documents. What will happen to the word processors, text editors and other programs we use today when there is no data left for them to use since everything has been protected? > The TCPA allows you to do something that you can't do today: run your > system in a way which convinces the other guy that you will honor your > promises, that you will guard his content as he requires in exchange for > his providing it to you. It allows you to be honest. Only problem is; I'm not the one giving promises, it's my computer! "Yes, I will make sure that the user only will be able to listen to this song three times. Don't you worry. His opinion doesn't matter. I'm in charge here." I'm not saying there isn't a market for listening to songs a limited number of times for a smaller fee, I'm just worried they will take away the possiblity of listening an unlimited number of times (or make it noticeably more expensive). > Realize that the "trusted" mode of the TCPA will always be only an option, Bottom line; not if you want to work with protected content. (Which, from what I can understand, will include all future songs, movies and probably word documents and loads of other data as well.) Or am I missing something? --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From during5berairou5 at yahoo.com Sat Jun 29 00:58:41 2002 From: during5berairou5 at yahoo.com (Canangium Muncerian) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 00:58:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Fakes... Message-ID: <20020629075841.67675.qmail@web21505.mail.yahoo.com> There is something extremely wrong with every single person in this world. They seem to be part of a pointless simulation. "The Matrix" has portrayed this idea somewhat, yet we watch it and go back to our daily lives. Yet in this very life, underneath the seeming diversity in people's opinions, values, talents, and interests, there is something that makes everyone the same. It is as though this planet is populated only by mindless fakes, objects that provide the appearance of intellect on the surface but are based on only mechanical reflexes and primitive thought patterns. I don't really care if anything I say has been said before, if it was portrayed in movies, in books, or in the lyrics of some useless song. With 6 billion people covering the globe at any given time, thousands and thousands of years of written literature, probability dictates almost any combination of words has occurred numerous times. Yet there is clear evidence there was no action, so those words, just like the people who spoke them, must have been just more fakes. I am forced to use this language (also created by the fakes) because there is no alternative, so everything I write here could be misunderstood to make me sound like one of them, but it will be the action that I take and the dedication that will separate me from them. In my estimation the fakes that occupy this planet don't make up 99%, but more like 99.9999999% of the population. I know this because I've searched, and in my search have so far only found one true ally (I have found him via the internet as well). But even with those numbers we would not give up because there is no logic in giving up. The people on this planet are all fakes because the societies have made them this way. Ideas that populate people's minds have no logic or purpose. Concepts such as religion, god, morality, individualism, freedom, identity, happiness, love and billions of others are all just memes. Like parasites they infect the minds and spread from one person to the next. They have no point or purpose; they exist without any logical basis or foundation. The fakes are completely controlled by them, and they will never see beyond them. To not be controlled by them one must do more then just realize that they exist. One must resist any ideas that have no point, endlessly question, and never accept imperfection or compromise in any answer. We (myself and my ally) are different though. While we have had the limitation of existing only in these societies, something has made it possible for us to resist being indoctrinated into becoming one of those fakes. We have no arbitrary wants, needs, desires, or preferences. If this world continues to exist the way it is then nothing in it will ever have a point. It will always be just a product of random evolution, one with no importance or relevance. The only logical goal is to dedicate our lives to increasing our numbers, those that aren't fakes, so that in thousands of years our numbers may be such that the fakes would no longer be a threat to progress. Those that join us must see every other person occupying this planet as the enemy, and us as their only allies. Like us they must have dedication only to taking the most logical action, and to nothing else. To tell you more about us, we've posted some personal information about ourselves on a website. You'll also find past responses to us on that webpage. Obviously anyone reading this email is most likely just another fake. Do not simply reply to this email, if you do your message will almost certainly be ignored. If you do wish to communicate, first demonstrate your interest by taking the effort to find us online, one of the ways to do that is described below. Use a major search engine to search for every combination of any two words from the list below. The order of the words shouldn't matter as long as you do not search for them in quotes. Also when you pick the right combination you shouldn't need to look at more then the first matches. There is no trick to this and this isn't meant to be quick, it should, however, be fairly clear if/when you find the right site. The following search engines were verified by us, please use any of them as other search engines may simply not list us correctly: MSN, Lycos, InfoSeek, LookSmart, HotBot, InfoSpace, Google, Ask.com, AllTheWeb, Teoma, WebCrawler, AltaVista, Yahoo, AOL Search, Netscape Search. perfect theory endless eternal desire driving perpetual vision logical infinite dream final best escape objective thought only logic ambition clue If this can't be solved, or if you never reach us, there should be no reason for you to give up as we will never give up and thus there will always be some way to find us. -------------- Ryan and Jacob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From griffinboys232 at dlc.fi Sat Jun 29 15:21:24 2002 From: griffinboys232 at dlc.fi (Phil) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 03:21:24 -1900 Subject: Home Loans, Refinance, Debt Consolidation - Fast SS Message-ID: <000034f41583$0000680f$00003fa3@wonka.esatclear.ie> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 9482 bytes Desc: not available URL: From davidbrin at cts.com Sat Jun 29 03:31:35 2002 From: davidbrin at cts.com (davidbrin at cts.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 03:31:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: No subject Message-ID: <200206291031.g5TAVZJ60423@esql.cts.com> Thanks Bill, for passing on your message, along with the news that I've been dissed and discussed by R.A. Hettinga. Naturally, he never informed me, nor copied me his missives, nor invited me to answer. This appears to be quite typical. Let me make clear, this is not a case of disagreement over public issues of privacy, security and freedom. That topic area merits serious attention by adults, and your attempt, below, to paraphrase my position in The Transparent Society, is an example of adult discourse. Paraphrasing is what men and women do when they truly want to understand another's point of view. They then seek feedback in order to find out if their impressions are right, or if they've been just in their counter-arguments. Your attempt, below, is a good effort. Inaccurate in some details, but also quite interesting. I wish I had time for a full reaction. Perhaps I will try later, after returning from giving a keynote at the Libertarian National Convention. (An irony that will surely gall cypherpunks who routinely insist that theirs is the only possible pro-freedom zeitgeist.) No, my case against Hettinga is much simpler. The man publicly attributed to me views that I do not have, and have never expressed. Views that are, in fact, diametrically opposite to anything that I believe. Moreover, this cannot be due to inadvertence or carelessness, since he used quotation marks, something that an educated person only does when he can back it up with demonstrable citations. Not inadvertence or laziness, then, but rather deliberate falsehood bordering on libel. The man is an outright liar. I had no choice but to say so, lest the words that he tried to cram into my mouth become part of the public record. But enough about such people. They are noisy and - I've learned - quite irrelevant. It's why I no longer bother with cypherpunks. They are romantics who dream of fighting 'Big Brother". If tyranny ever does come, the loudest - already foolishly on record - will never get a chance to try out their fancy spy toys before they are shot. It's up to adults like you and me to see to it that never happens. For you, I'll offer the respect of a (brief) argument. Let's shift from technological determinism (the Moore's Law thing) to basic epistemology. * It is fundamentally impossible ever to verify for certain that someone else does NOT know something. * It is demonstrably possible - though sometimes difficult - to verify that YOU do know something. That's it, in a nutshell. The premise of the cypherpunks - to protect themselves and their freedom from inimical elites by limiting what those elites know - is untenable. Cowering under blankets and covers and shrouds and ciphers cannot possibly work in the long run, because it is based on an absurdity. They will never know which of their encryption programs has a back door, or which anonymity site is a police front. (Hint: they ALL will be.) Cowering can never offer any peace of mind. Moreover, it is a craven, self-centered and ultimately futile approach. In setting me up as a strawman, guys like Hettinga claim that I 'trust' government elites. Hogwash. I am far more suspicious of authority than any of them are! They would pick and choose some elites to trust while focusing their ire on just one (government). I don't trust ANY elite, of government, wealth, criminality or technology. Moreover, I will not cower from them. The only defense of freedom that works is the one americans have used for 200 years. An AGGRESSIVE approach, barging into the citadels of power, ripping the blinds, opening the windows, protecting the whistleblowers, siccing elites against each other, unleashing a myriad news-hounds and generally stripping the big boys naked! These guys see themselves as Keanu Reaves - cheap movie cliche heroes - skipping ratlike through garbage under the dark towers of the Neuromancer zaibatsus, while the rest of their fellow citizens mewl like sheep. Meanwhile, in real life, those citizens are standing up and - en masse - empowering themselves with the very same technology that the cynics and pundits think will enslave us! See: http://www.futurist.com/portal/future_trends/david_brin_empowerment.htm Feh! Dig it, man. My freedom is NOT contingent on blinding govt. Let em see! They will, anyway. Maybe if they see better, they will do their jobs better. So? My freedom is protected by MY ability to supervise govt... to know what they are up to and to hold them accountable if they abuse their power. Not only is that epistemologically possible, it is exactly how we got the freedom we now have! I never said that task would be easy! The present administration makes daily efforts to erect barriers to public oversight and accountability, with vigor unseen since the Sedition Acts. I wish the cypherpunks were helping in the fight to preserve transparency, instead of playing into the concealers' hands. I don't want a blind guard dog. I want a guard dog who can see... but with a fierce choke chain around its neck, controlled by every american who is empowered to clearly supervize what the dog is up to and react quickly if so much as growls in the wrong direction. A few who read this will get it. The rest will call it 'naive', even though it's what worked for us so far. Nor is it any more naive than actually trusting PGP! In ten years, not one cypherpunk has answered my challenge to name a society in history that adopted widespread secrecy as a freedom-protection measure - and thrived. Ours, utilizing the tool of open accountability, has. Oh, one last metaphor. Humans are monkeys. Ever try to BLIND a big monkey? It won't let you! But you can LOOK at a big monkey. You can look at it, and yell for help from other little monkeys if you see it try mischief. You can do that if your top priority is protecting YOUR eyes, not trying to hide. Enough. Thanks again, Bill. Look up Witness.org. They are doing more good in the world than all the cypherpunks, cowering under their fantasy masks... masks that will blow away like dust, if ever a real storm comes. With cordial regards, David Brin www.davidbrin.com Bill Stewart writes: >Bob - I'm not sure if you copied David separately/Bcc on your reply, >and I've dropped Cc:s to some of your lists that I'm not on, >and I missed your original message that David flamed you for >which you're flaming back about, but.... > >Perhaps I've missed some really critical things the time or two >that I've read "The Transparent Society", or projected too much >liberarian hype into my reading, but to me the big points were >- Moore's Law, etc., will make networked cameras so appallingly cheap > that that they'll be pretty much universal. It'll do it to other > information technologies as well, but the public has an easier time > understanding what a camera means than a database, so that's the > one to focus on when you're writing popular science. > >- Usual digressions into what Moore's Law and cheap and universal mean, > and some implications about the realism of expecations of privacy > that need to be said slowly for people who haven't spent years > talking about geodesic economies and therefore don't get it (:-) > >- Lots of people will be watching you on cameras, either because they > feel like it, or because they're watching something else > and it's too much trouble to not watch you at the same time. > And you'll be watching lots of people or things, for similar reasons, > and realistically there's not much that'll stop it. > >- The government will be watching you, like it or not. > Brin spends a while discussing the issue of whether we should > try to stop them from doing so through legislation, > but basically views it as a lost cause for economic reasons, > and all the related reasons of power, convenience, control, etc. > (I don't remember how much time he spent on the "even if they ban > government from watching you most of the time, they'll always > give themselves exemptions even if they bother following the rules, > so just get used to it" issue, but it was there. Video's too cheap.) > >- We might be watching the government, or we might not, > and the government are the only major group that can easily > make it hard to watch them, because they can throw you in jail > if you get in their face, and they've got enough control over > their actions to make it difficult to watch them. > THIS IS WHERE WE NEED TO FOCUS AS CITIZENS, because if you don't > force them to do their work in the sunshine, they won't, > and because getting them not to watch you is a lost cause. > >- Cypherpunks technologies are mostly a lost cause, because > Bad Guys (mainly the government) will use them to do their bad open >things, > whereas they can put cameras in your ceiling to watch you type >your passwords, > hide bugs under your bed (next to the Communists) to listen to the > conversations you're having on your EnCryptoPhone, etc. > Making sure the government is maximally watchable is more important, > and if you say you're allowed to hide your actions, > they'll make sure they're allowed to hide theirs, > and they're better at this organized coercion thing than you are. > >Perhaps I'm putting words in Brin's mouth, especially about the latter, >but it has seemed to have been the major bone of contention >between Brin and various Cypherpunks. Meanwhile, Big Brother *is* >increasingly watching us, even if in GeodesicWorld nobody else >has bothered paying enough to watch hi-res videos of most of us very often, >and BB is trying very hard to make himself much less accountable, >because if we can see where George is, we can question him, >and if that happens, the Terrorists Have Won... > > (Meanwhile, the Bush Administration has been promising > heavy scrutiny of the Worldcom Debacle, if nothing else because > they're so pleased to have dishonesty from somebody who's > not in the Oil Business or Military-Industrial Complex for a change.) > > >At 12:54 PM 06/25/2002 -0400, R. A. Hettinga wrote: >>I should say, at this point in things, that I've never complained at >>all about Brin's heralding some mechanical ubiquity of *observation*, >>per se, any more than I complain about the market, celestial >>mechanics, or the weather. You can't fight Moore's (or Metcalfe's, or >>whoever's) Law, and all that. >> >>I *do* think that observation done by people of their own property >>(call it supervision, I guess), is much better than observation by >>states of their own citizens (call that surveillance). In fact, I >>would go far enough to say that the former is just plain common >>sense, and the latter is the very definition of totalitarianism. >>... >>Put in less Proustian terms, the *market* for such things will >>determine which side will prevail: Monopolistic surveillance with the >>"consent" of the "governed", versus the supervision of private >>property by a whole swarm of individual market actors. It will not be >>decided, as some people seem to want, Dr. Brin among them, >>apparently, by having two "monkeys" fight it out in an internet zoo >>cage somewhere about who gets to control some pile of intellectual >>bananas. From morlockelloi at yahoo.com Sat Jun 29 04:34:22 2002 From: morlockelloi at yahoo.com (Morlock Elloi) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 04:34:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: privacy <> digital rights management In-Reply-To: <0a48434bb4bad36bf0ba49589e990032@dizum.com> Message-ID: <20020629113422.78778.qmail@web13201.mail.yahoo.com> > Of course, nothing can stop Amazon from entering your credit card data > and/or address into another program. They need to see this data in > order to perform their normal business functions, and anyone can read > it off the screen and type it into another computer. But the point > is, they can't do it to the entire database. Amazon has millions This is naive approach. Even if we assume that amazon would in *fact* agree to this mechanized enforcement of corporate policies, and that tcpa owners/creators are not colluding (open source doesn't mean shit - check the history of pgp vulnerabilities) and that policies are foolproof (think "bug-free software") and that amazon is not running SSL proxies in front of its servers on separate machines (as they probably do now so it's sniffable plaintext inside) and that there will never be a tap on data/address bus (or is tcpa protecting the whole RAM somehow ?) and that no one will offer $10000 off-the-screen reading OCR software with attached device that emulates fingers on the keyboard and reads the entire database in a week (rent-a-tap ?), even if we assume all that, a dream where the server *becomes the business* ("amazon" is someone who buys the domain name and the server), how do you imagine to convey the advantage of all this to the unwashed masses ? It is much cheaper and equally effective to run advertizing campaign that claims that data is secure than to actually implement it in some technological way which no one can understand. The first time a braindead exec of e-tailer introduces tcpa/drm the competition will come up with "tcpa plus" or "ypzd secure" that will sound and feel much more secure and yet let them sell lists and beat the competition. It works - most americans believe in magic properties of the greek word "democracy". The technology, once outside of comprehension of your average sheep, is irrelevant. It's waste of money. > Note that, as with the earlier DRM analysis, the TCPA in this example > exists to help Amazon prove to people that they are behaving honestly. This proof would require understanding of what tcpa is. All people who do actually understand that can protect their privacy just fine today without any additional tcpa needed. I'm starting to believe that there is some truth in stereotyping of engineers as total incompetents in bipedal interactions. ===== end (of original message) Y-a*h*o-o (yes, they scan for this) spam follows: Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From aana_01ebook at yahoo.com Sat Jun 29 16:53:54 2002 From: aana_01ebook at yahoo.com (aana_01ebook at yahoo.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 04:53:54 -1900 Subject: Put $3,500 cash in your pocket in two weeks! 13410 Message-ID: <00006a084bad$000045ed$000006a3@.> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 11960 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jtrjtrjtr2001 at yahoo.com Sat Jun 29 06:42:11 2002 From: jtrjtrjtr2001 at yahoo.com (gfgs pedo) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 06:42:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Diffie-Hellman and MITM In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020629134211.25734.qmail@web21209.mail.yahoo.com> hi, If there is no previous shared secret,then ur communication on an insecure network is susecptable to the man in the middle attack. One solution suggested against the man in the middle attack is using the interlock protocol InterLock Protocol Is used to foil a man in the middle attack, 1:>Alice sends Bob her public key 2:>Bob sends Alice his public key 3:>Alice encrypts her message with Bob's public key.She sends half of the encryped message to Bob. 4:>Bob encrypts his message using Alice's public key.He sends half of the encrypted message to Alice. 5:>Alice sends the other half of encrypted message to Bob. 6:>Bob puts the 2 halves of Alice's message together & decrypts it with his private key.Bob sends the other half of the message to Alice. 7:>Alice puts the 2 halves of Bob's message together & decrypt it with her private key. Here Mallory can still substitute his own public key for Alice & Bob . Now when he interceprs half of Alice's message,he cannot decrypt it with his private key & re-encrypt it with Bob's public key .He must invent a completely new message & send half of it to Bob. When he intercepts half of Bob's message to Alice,he has the same problem. He cannot decrypt with his private key & re encrypt with Alice's public key. By the time the second half of the message of Alice & Bob arrive,its already too late to change the new message he invented. The conversation between Alice & Bob need to be completely different. How ever if Mallory can mimic Alice & Bob,they might not realise that they are being duped & may get away with his scheme here is what i think It is not compulsary that all the blocks of messages must be invented by Mallory. he only need to make the first full message for alice and send it to bob & vice versa. ok,eg: 1:>alice send bob part of 1 st block 2:>bob makes the 1 st half on his own and send to bob & keeps alice's message 3:>now bob sends his first half of message 4:>mallory intercept it and make his own message and send it to alice 5:>Again bob sends alice the other half of the msg which mallory intercepts & substitue his own 2nd part of his block 6:>the same happens when bob sends the second half of his message to alice,mallory intercepts it and sends his own 2 nd block to alice. since he has send one full block to each other & has the full block of alice's and bob's true messages,mallory can now split it as half and complete the protocol ie, since the 1 st packet is fake,he has the true packets of alice & bob & can complete the protocol. All mallory would have to do is send the half of the (n th) packet when he receives the half of (n+1)th packet since the 1 st packet was faked by mallory. so i dont think the interlock protocol will work in this case. thats how i understand it. am i not rite? Regards Data. --- Mike Rosing wrote: > On Fri, 28 Jun 2002, Marcel Popescu wrote: > > > Well... I assume an active MITM (like my ISP). > He's able to intercept my > > public key request and change it. Plus, I now > realize I should have put an > > even harder condition - no previously shared > *information*, even if it's > > public. I need to know if two complete strangers > can communicate securely > > over an insecure network, even if they communicate > through an untrusted > > party. Wasn't there a protocol for two prisoners > communicating through an > > untrusted guard? > > Can't be done. > > You must have multiple channels, and you need to > hope that all > of them can't be spoofed. A phone call, a newspaper > ad, a bill board, > a satallite link, any one of them might be spoofed. > But to spoof *all* > of them would be very hard. > > If you use some kind of "security by obscurity" > method, you can do > something once. but for general security, it's not > possible to just > go via the net without an out-of-band check. > > A public posting of the key id is a pretty safe way > for a large > company or organization. A .sig with your key id is > another good > way, it leaves traces all over the net for a long > time. The point > is that you have to leave some kind of trace that's > checkable via > an effective alternate channel. Otherwise, the MITM > wins. > > Patience, persistence, truth, > Dr. mike > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From cybersazoo at cybersazoo.net Fri Jun 28 15:28:40 2002 From: cybersazoo at cybersazoo.net (sazoo) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 07:28:40 +0900 Subject: 운세,사주 보실래요?? Message-ID: <200206282236.RAA31966@einstein.ssz.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1273 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wa9sywc1k08 at hotmail.com Sat Jun 29 21:21:09 2002 From: wa9sywc1k08 at hotmail.com (Olivia) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 09:21:09 -1900 Subject: Herbal Viagra 30 day trial.... UQYU Message-ID: <0000330a061b$000020ca$00005339@mx09.hotmail.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1467 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bear at sonic.net Sat Jun 29 10:03:33 2002 From: bear at sonic.net (bear) Date: Sat Jun 29, 2002 10:03:33 PM US/Pacific Subject: No subject Message-ID: , "'cypherpunks at lne.com '" Subject: Re: Ross's TCPA paper > > Here's a clue, Mr. Bear. The cypherpunks list was founded on the > principle that cyberspace can enhance freedom, and that includes freedom > to associate with whomever you choose. Racism is evil, but the solution > must lie in people's hearts. Pointing a gun at them and forcing them > to act in a politically correct manner (which is what civil rights > regulations really do) is no solution to the problem. Bear left the Cypherpunks list a long while ago, citing fundamental disagreements. "Cryptography" was formed as a putatively apolitical list. Apparently this is no longer so, and its politics are at odds with the main themes on our list. (I believe this partly comes about precisely _because_ it supposedly has no political compass heading.) I have strong views on all this DRM and TCPA stuff, and especially on the claim that some form of DRM is needed to prevent government from taking over control of the "arts." But we said everything that needed to be said _years_ ago. No point in repeating the same points. --Tim May "Dogs can't conceive of a group of cats without an alpha cat." --David Honig, on the Cypherpunks list, 2001-11 From rah at shipwright.com Sat Jun 29 08:13:32 2002 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 11:13:32 -0400 Subject: Rendering Unto Ceasar In-Reply-To: <200206291031.g5TAVZJ60423@esql.cts.com> References: <200206291031.g5TAVZJ60423@esql.cts.com> Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp Size: 8620 bytes Desc: not available URL: From a1_internet7610 at flashmail.com Sat Jun 29 20:17:27 2002 From: a1_internet7610 at flashmail.com (Ebay Masters) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 11:17:27 -1600 Subject: Ebay Marketing Secrets: Click Here Message-ID: <00004f503402$00007c99$00002254@mail.flashmail.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1616 bytes Desc: not available URL: From freeporncoomppms at mail-south.com Sat Jun 29 09:32:57 2002 From: freeporncoomppms at mail-south.com (freeporncoomppms at mail-south.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 11:32:57 -0500 Subject: CUM NOW FOR FREE!! Message-ID: <1025364777.4411@localhost.localdomain> cypherpunks at algebra.com DO ME NOW FOR FREE!! FREE PORN ACCESS ALL THE PORN YOU CAN HANDLE!! DO ME NOW I WANT YOU TO CUM!!! http://www.freewebland.com/wassse1/yy to opt out click reply you will be removed instantly plcurechaxf^nytroen(pbz From rah at shipwright.com Sat Jun 29 08:46:52 2002 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 11:46:52 -0400 Subject: Rendering Unto Ceasar In-Reply-To: References: <200206291031.g5TAVZJ60423@esql.cts.com> Message-ID: At 11:13 AM -0400 on 6/29/02, R. A. Hettinga wrote: > Ceasar > Romero, Oops. Conflation between Ceasar Romero, Aldo Rey, and the character "Aldo" in the *third* and *fourth* Planet of the Apes sequellae, played, in the fourth movie's speaking role, by Claude Akins. IMDB is your friend. ;-). Cheers, RAH -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From emc at artifact.psychedelic.net Sat Jun 29 12:23:09 2002 From: emc at artifact.psychedelic.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 12:23:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Cluelessness is Wrong In-Reply-To: from "Anonymous" at Jun 29, 2002 08:16:06 PM Message-ID: <200206291923.g5TJNOR01810@artifact.psychedelic.net> "Anonymous" writes > This shouldn't have to be said, but apparently it is necessary. And even if it isn't, you're going to say it anyway, aren't you? > Piracy - unauthorized copying of copyrighted material - is wrong. > It inherently involves lying, cheating and taking unfair advantage > of others. Systems like DRM are therefore beneficial when they help to > reduce piracy. We should all support them, to the extent that this is > their purpose. Guess again. All photons on my property are mine to decode and process as I see fit. By sending photons onto my property, you agree to these terms. > When an artist releases a song or some other creative product to the > world, they typically put some conditions on it. If you want to listen > to and enjoy the song, you are obligated to agree to those conditions. > If you can't accept the conditions, you shouldn't take the creative work. > The artist is under no obligation to release their work. It is like a > gift to the world. They are free to put whatever conditions they like > on that gift, and you are free to accept them or not. Well, this post to Cypherpunks is my work. The conditions I put on it are that by reading it, anyone named "Anonymous" agrees to serve me until the end of time, transfer to me all their worldly goods, and permit me to sacrifice their firstborn to Baal. > If you take the gift, you are agreeing to the conditions. If you then > violate the stated conditions, such as by sharing the song with others, > you are breaking your agreement. You become a liar and a cheat. Like "Anonymous" here. > This isn't complicated. It's just basic ethics. It's a matter of honesty > and trust. When someone makes you an offer and you don't find the terms > acceptable, you simply refuse. You don't take advantage by taking what > they provide and refusing to do your part. That's cheating. Unsolicited free gifts are mine to keep. I just got some lovely address labels from a paralyzed baby-killers organization. I plan to use them on my mail, and not send them a dime. Anyone else who wants to send me free stuff, including photons, is free to do so. They won't get a cent either. Copyright should be abolished. If you don't want your secrets, or artistic works, copied and shared, you are free to keep them in a vault in your basement, for your sole enjoyment. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From bill.stewart at pobox.com Sat Jun 29 13:30:37 2002 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 13:30:37 -0700 Subject: In-Reply-To: <200206291031.g5TAVZJ60423@esql.cts.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.1.20020629130423.04a448b0@idiom.com> At 03:31 AM 06/29/2002 -0700, davidbrin at cts.com wrote: >Thanks Bill, for passing on your message, along with the news that I've been >dissed and discussed by R.A. Hettinga. Naturally, he never informed me, nor >copied me his missives, nor invited me to answer. This appears to be quite >typical. Sure. I'd assumed you'd seen his mail; I'm separately forwarding the message that I'd excerpted, though I don't seem to have most of the other messages in the thread; archives are at http://inet-one.com/cypherpunks/ (it's mostly full of spam, because somebody once decided to make a point about list filtering by subscribing us to all the spam he could find but there's real content as well; I read the spam-filtered version of the list, but I'm not aware of an archive of that version.) You do get occasionally discussed on the list, or at least referred to, >Your attempt, below, is a good effort. Inaccurate in some details, but also >quite interesting. I wish I had time for a full reaction. Perhaps I will >try later, after returning from giving a keynote at the Libertarian National >Convention. Oh, that'll be interesting - I'll see you there. One of the cypherpunks arguments is that you'll get a lot more whistleblowers if they can do so anonymously. >... >The only defense of freedom that works is the one americans have used for >200 years. An AGGRESSIVE approach, barging into the citadels of power, >ripping the blinds, opening the windows, protecting the whistleblowers, >siccing elites against each other, unleashing a myriad news-hounds and >generally stripping the big boys naked! >... >My freedom is protected by MY ability to supervise govt... to know what they >are up to and to hold them accountable if they abuse their power. Not only >is that epistemologically possible, it is exactly how we got the freedom we >now have! From rah at shipwright.com Sat Jun 29 11:13:43 2002 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 14:13:43 -0400 Subject: [IRR] Brin Responds to Re: Brin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 1:49 PM -0400 on 6/29/02, Somebody wrote: > I am delighted to see that David Brin is becoming even more loony with the > passing of time, and even more delighted to find you quoting him. What > else can one do with Brin, but quote him? More than anyone I have ever > known, he debunks himself, thus saving everyone else the time and trouble > of doing so. For this, I am extremely grateful. Most loonies are not so > considerate of other people's time. :-). Unfortunately, I couldn't leave well enough alone, I'm afraid. I haven't gotten flamed in quite a while, but, on the other hand, I haven't written very much get flamed for, I suppose. As friend Rodney Thayer says, you're only as good as the people you piss off. Taken in the spirit offered above, it looks like I've just rattled the bars on the monkey-cage to no good effect. Oh, well. I need to get in the habit of writing again one way or another, even the word-count *is* in the service of an on-line pissing contest... Cheers, RAH -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From davidbrin at cts.com Sat Jun 29 15:01:46 2002 From: davidbrin at cts.com (davidbrin at cts.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 15:01:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Rendering Unto Ceasar Message-ID: <200206292201.g5TM1kT65995@esql.cts.com> R. A. Hettinga writes: >At 3:31 AM -0700 on 6/29/02, davidbrin at cts.com paints a picture out >of the second "Planet of the Apes" movie, Roddy McDowell, Ceasar >Romero, and all...: > >Brin said: >> An AGGRESSIVE approach, barging into the citadels of power, >> ripping the blinds, opening the windows, protecting the >> whistleblowers, siccing elites against each other, unleashing a >> myriad news-hounds and generally stripping the big boys naked! > >Hettinga comments: In other words, using the nation-state (a mob by any other name >smells just same) to solve a technological, a physical, problem. >Shall we legislate pi, while we're at it? Brin's new remise: The attempt to paraphrase me, above, using "in other words", is yet another example of the profound dishonesty we're witnessing here. It truly is pathetic when people feel a need to cram words and meanings into the mouths of other people, in blatant attempts to make them look foolish or to erect strawmen to knock down. In fact, Hettinga's "in other words" above has no relationship to anything I believe, nor to anything I've said. And certainly no relationship to the very paragraph to which he refers! This is truly dismal. >I think my original point about Brin "trusting" the nation-state -- >one I thought fairly tangential to my review of Wayner's excellent >"Translucent Databases", though apparently not tangential enough -- >is proven above, and throughout Dr. Brin's latest fulmination. Meet >the new mob, same as the old mob, with a nod to Mr. Townsend and the >now late Mr. Entwhistle. Please note, not an iota of actual citation or specificity. He avoids addressing the central issue -- that he crammed words and meanings into my mouth that have no bearing on my views - a harmful act since others might believe him. Moreover, he did not offer me a chance to see or comment. Moreover he abused quotation marks. These are my "mob" actions... apparently Hettinga can do whatever he wants to others, but calls it 'mob' when one of those people explicityly and carefully holds him accountable for deliberate untruths. >Sure, we're going to have ubiquitous *supervision* of *property* >using exponentially cheaper charge-coupled camera devices attached to >geodesic internetworks. Moore's, Metcalfe's, Gilder's(?) "laws", will >not be denied. But it will be increasingly done by property owners, >and not by nation states. I think that Brin used his entire book to >grope for that same point, but, apparently, he can't see beyond his >own statist nose to the ultimate answer to the problem he poses >there. At last, a paraphrasing the glancingly touches my actual views. Cameras HAVE proliferated as much in the US as in Britain - though mostly into private hands, rather than the police. This bothers me because ALL elites should be held accountable. Still, dispersal of vision among as wide a variety of elites as possible is certainly preferable. As for 'statist' views... again, pathetic. I am keynote speaker for this year's Libertarian National Convention. Guys like Hettinga hurl such words at anything they do not understand. If it's not their standard line, it must be Big Brother. Feh. >Dr. Brin says something about never hearing of "society", much less a >nation-state, that succeeded in an atmosphere of ubiquitous personal >privacy, and, oddly enough, I believe he's right. First, we haven't >been able to organize in large groups without force monopolies until >now, and second, of course, nation-states probably can't survive in a >world of ubiquitous strong financial cryptography and geodesic >internetworks. Fine. He is proposing an experimental new kind of society. I am willing to listen. Meanwhile, however, I will try to defend THIS society using the tools that have created more freedom and wealth than any other. Forcing accountability upon elites is the method that has worked. A burden of proof falls upon the romantics who propose that we switch to an entirely different strategy of hiding from each other behind masks. In The Transparent Society I pose many many problems with this approach. Instead of making caricatures to avoid arguing, ANSWER those problems, one by one. Convince us this untested prescription will work better than one that is already working well. You may succeed, I have a more open mind than yours, apparently. But for now, I consider masks to be craven. You'll find me, bare-faced, confronting statists and aristocrats and plutocrats and other elites demanding that they strip. Enough. You haven't a clue what I believe Hettinga. You have proved it so leave me OUT of your screeds. Stop lying about me, or I'll hold you accountable again. Others, please let me know if/when he starts in again. Better yet, go listen to honest men. With cordial regards, David Brin www.davidbrin.com From Ross.Anderson at cl.cam.ac.uk Sat Jun 29 07:31:26 2002 From: Ross.Anderson at cl.cam.ac.uk (Ross Anderson) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 15:31:26 +0100 Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: Message from Barney Wolff of "Wed, 26 Jun 2002 14:27:42 EDT." <20020626142742.A5220@tp.databus.com> Message-ID: Yes, this is a debate I've had with the medical privacy7 guys, some of whom like the idea of using Palladium to protect medical records. This is a subject on which I've a lot of experience (see my web page), and I don't think that Palladium will help. Privacy abuses almost always involve abuse of authorised access by an insider. Recent case: 15-year old girl in Croydon, England, gets termination of pregnancy without telling her mother. This is reported to the local health authority, where her uncle works; he sees the report and tells the family. Palladium doesn't help here. Even if the unclse is constrined by the Fritz chip from doing anything other than look at the screen, he still has the information. The fix for this problem is anonymous reporting, with the identity of the girl known only to the treating physician. It is a policy issue, not a techjnology issue; if technology such as Palladium is introduced it will most likely be by health authorities trying to find an excuse to retain access to data that they shouldn't have in the first place. (We've seen a similar effect with smartcards in healthcare, and in fact the general phenomenon has an interesting similarity with what the environmental economists call the `social reward trap': making `green' goods available often increases pollution as people consume green goods rather than consuming less.) Ross --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From jasminechick at desertmail.com Sat Jun 29 17:12:03 2002 From: jasminechick at desertmail.com (jasminechick at desertmail.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 16:12:03 -0800 Subject: Mortgage Rates At An All Time Low Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 9582 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nospam_kravietz at aba.krakow.pl Sat Jun 29 07:12:18 2002 From: nospam_kravietz at aba.krakow.pl (=?iso-8859-2?Q?Pawe=B3?= Krawczyk) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 16:12:18 +0200 Subject: mount filesystem and run a program when hotplugged In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020629141218.GB4018@aba.krakow.pl> On Fri, Jun 28, 2002 at 05:29:17PM +0200, Eugen Leitl wrote: > I've bought me a little (32 MBytes) hotpluggable USB flash stick (a > TrekStor). It mounts fine, but what I'd like to do is to automount it, and > fire up a program (I intend to put my keyring on it) if hotplugged. You need to enable hot-pluggable devices in your kernel configuration (along with USB storage stuff as well of course). Then, when you insert the flash, kernel will automagically load all necessary drivers and call /sbin/hotplug (path set in /proc), which can be a shell script. >From here you can do everything you want. Actually, those flash devices are quite cool, I'm using them to distribute configuration, keys and software upgrades on my security gateways etc., so feel free to ask if you have any problems. -- Pawe3 Krawczyk * http://echelon.pl/kravietz/ Krakow, Poland * http://ipsec.pl/ From ashwood at msn.com Sat Jun 29 17:09:20 2002 From: ashwood at msn.com (Joseph Ashwood) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 17:09:20 -0700 Subject: Piracy is wrong References: Message-ID: <004d01c21fca$7ba59820$6501a8c0@josephas> Subject: CDR: Piracy is wrong > This shouldn't have to be said, but apparently it is necessary. Which is a correct statement, but an incorrect line of thinking. Piracy is an illegitimate use of a designed in hole in the security, the ability to copy. This right to copy for personal use is well founded, and there are even supreme court cases to support it. DRM removes this right, without due representation, and it is thinking like yours that leads down this poorly chosen path. The other much more harsh reality involved is that DRM cannot work, all it can do is inconvenience legitimate consumers. There is massive evidence of this, and you are free to examine them in any way you choose. > Piracy - unauthorized copying of copyrighted material - is wrong. > It inherently involves lying, cheating and taking unfair advantage > of others. Systems like DRM are therefore beneficial when they help to > reduce piracy. We should all support them, to the extent that this is > their purpose. > > When an artist releases a song or some other creative product to the > world, they typically put some conditions on it. These include the expectation that the artist will be paid according to whatever deal they have signed with their label. Inherent in this deal is the consumer's right to copy for personal use, and to resell their purchased copy, as long as all copies that the consumer has made are destroyed. DRM attempts to revoke this right to personal copying, and resale. > If you want to listen > to and enjoy the song, you are obligated to agree to those conditions. > If you can't accept the conditions, you shouldn't take the creative work. And if the artist cannot accept the fundamental rights specifically granted, they should not produce art. > The artist is under no obligation to release their work. It is like a > gift to the world. They are free to put whatever conditions they like > on that gift, and you are free to accept them or not. Last time I checked the giver is supposed to remove the pricetag from the gift before giving it. By a similar argument, everyone should be happy that the WTC flying occured, after all they were kind enough not to kill anyone that's still alive. The logic simply doesn't hold. > If you take the gift, you are agreeing to the conditions. If you then > violate the stated conditions, such as by sharing the song with others, > you are breaking your agreement. You become a liar and a cheat. In fact one of the specifically granted rights is the right to share the music with friends and family, so this has nothing to do with being "a liar and a cheat" it has to do with excercising not just rights, but rights that have been specifically granted. > If you take the song without paying for it, you are again receiving this > gift without following the conditions that were placed on it as part > of the gift being offered. You are taking advantage of the artist's > creativity without them receiving the compensation they required. Because of that specifically granted right, that copies can be made for friends and family, it is also a specifically granted right to accept those copies. So it is merely excercising a specifically granted right. You clearly have not read or understood the implications and complexities of your statements, with regard to either logic or the law. > This isn't complicated. Apparently it is too complicated for you. > It's just basic ethics. It's just basic rights and excercising of those rights. > It's a matter of honesty > and trust. If the record companies were prepared to trust, why do they employ a substantial army of lawyers? Why do they pursue every p2p network? Why are they pushing for DRM? Trust is not a one-way street. The recording labels have demonstrated that they cannot be trusted in any form, what delusion makes you think they can be trusted now? > When someone makes you an offer and you don't find the terms > acceptable, you simply refuse. Exactly, I refuse to accept a DRM -limited environment which does not allow me full ownership of something I purchased. > You don't take advantage by taking what > they provide and refusing to do your part. That's cheating. No, that's a fundamental misunderstanding of everything involved, from law to basic logic you have misunderstood it all. Joe From eugen at leitl.org Sat Jun 29 10:59:26 2002 From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 19:59:26 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Uplifting Brin Message-ID: On Sat, 29 Jun 2002, Tom wrote: > Ithink Brin has got some cool ideas about opening up the window of > visability on the gov but where he falls down is the trust is issue. Brin's ideas only look cool if you think that we're living in a perfect anarchy, and that there's no intrinsic edge in centralism. Surveillance technology favours centralism, however, and we all know why anarchy is unstable with current type of agents, right? So he built the foundations of his glass castle on a pile of stinky poo. > Brin forget the adage that power corupts and absolute power corupts > absolutley. Brin is confabulating an alternative reality. This reality doesn't give a flying fuck about what he thinks is going to happen. He's actually doing damage, because quite a few people find his ideas superficially appealing, and stagnate in happy complacency. Sheep like the idea of Brinworld. Goverments love the idea of Brinworld, because it makes selling the current brand of FUD much easier. Happy sheep don't mind being shorn so much. > The Cypherpunks do come off often as being the > lonegunmen-dressed-in-black -knights-of-the-impossible-cause.....but Dunno, they come off a lot like narcistic wankers to me. Maybe some of them are writing code, but they must be damn secretive about it. There are literally very few people in the world who're good architects, and actually develop stuff. > thats a very needed role to have on most any society. While .001% of > the populace is doing that role they are comming up witht he means and > ways to subvert things if they should all get "one way or the > highway"esque. --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From nobody at remailer.privacy.at Sat Jun 29 11:16:06 2002 From: nobody at remailer.privacy.at (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 20:16:06 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Piracy is wrong Message-ID: This shouldn't have to be said, but apparently it is necessary. Piracy - unauthorized copying of copyrighted material - is wrong. It inherently involves lying, cheating and taking unfair advantage of others. Systems like DRM are therefore beneficial when they help to reduce piracy. We should all support them, to the extent that this is their purpose. When an artist releases a song or some other creative product to the world, they typically put some conditions on it. If you want to listen to and enjoy the song, you are obligated to agree to those conditions. If you can't accept the conditions, you shouldn't take the creative work. The artist is under no obligation to release their work. It is like a gift to the world. They are free to put whatever conditions they like on that gift, and you are free to accept them or not. If you take the gift, you are agreeing to the conditions. If you then violate the stated conditions, such as by sharing the song with others, you are breaking your agreement. You become a liar and a cheat. If you take the song without paying for it, you are again receiving this gift without following the conditions that were placed on it as part of the gift being offered. You are taking advantage of the artist's creativity without them receiving the compensation they required. This isn't complicated. It's just basic ethics. It's a matter of honesty and trust. When someone makes you an offer and you don't find the terms acceptable, you simply refuse. You don't take advantage by taking what they provide and refusing to do your part. That's cheating. From xisteen at pacbell.net Sat Jun 29 21:11:34 2002 From: xisteen at pacbell.net (christy) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 21:11:34 -0700 Subject: please help me Message-ID: <000801c21fec$38fb2040$f941fea9@PARADOX> my name is christy. i am allright. just a single woman getting by bothering no one. someone has been doing some serious stuff to me via my PC. I have all the evidence compiled via using security softward and also tracing things myself to determine that the ip of this Cindy soulia, and Raymond D. Mereniuk is where my problem is originating. Ok here's my sticky problem. I need someone who cares and has technical background (major) to assist me in getting the entire stack together. If I am going to make it stop and hopefully force them to tell me why they break in or attempt to so often, I need a good case to present. I am only fortunate to have gotten as far as I did, not at all versed in what I am doing. But.... I do think that I may know the true identity of this person. If it is who I think it is I have a need (one of the honorbound needs) to not only let him know in no uncertain terms that I am aware of his/her attacks but I want to know why they always have a heavy duty DOD link amongst the IPs on the route. I don't know if there is a way to express how important it is to stand my ground at this person but if you catch the drift of his personality from the messages he writes you might understand somewhat. i will await your reply and I guess you might say I beg you to help me. i will pay money for help and I won't ask you to do anything to compromise your own safety. Also I am not talking about going to the cops here, I would take the info and someone else who knows the attacker with me and do it face to face. if i am correct Please, Christy 510-783-7606 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2550 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jayh at 1st.net Sat Jun 29 18:25:49 2002 From: jayh at 1st.net (Jay Jay) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 21:25:49 -0400 Subject: Piracy is wrong Message-ID: <200206292125.AA209977842@1st.net> ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Anonymous Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 20:16:06 +0200 (CEST) >When an artist releases a song or some other creative product to the >world, they typically put some conditions on it. If you want to listen >to and enjoy the song, you are obligated to agree to those conditions. >If you can't accept the conditions, you shouldn't take the creative work. This assumes the truthfulness of the fundamental premise, that an artist can both share information, and yet control it after it's shared. This is more an artifact of our time than a fundamental moral principle of nature. Throughout most of human history, information was either secret, or it was public knowledge... no other choices. j ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at 1st.net From bear at sonic.net Sat Jun 29 22:03:33 2002 From: bear at sonic.net (bear) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 22:03:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: <20020626142742.A5220@tp.databus.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Jun 2002, Barney Wolff wrote: >Do you really mean that if I'm a business, you can force me to deal with >you even though you refuse to supply your real name? Not acceptable. I don't think that privacy (in the sense of having the right to keep private details of your life from being linked for use unauthorized by you) is ever going to happen if merchants have the right to demand true identities. As a merchant, you have the right to be paid and to be sure of your payment. I don't think you have the right to collect data that you can correlate with every public and business record in the universe and build a profile linked to my identity that says what brand of breakfast cereal I eat, how much a month I spend on sex toys, what kind of books I read, and whether I'm in trouble in divorce court. The problem is that there is no way to check what merchants do with the data once they've got it; customers are prevented from getting into the customer databases and finding out what a merchant's got on them. Merchants have no motive whatsoever to police or restrain their actions in invasion of privacy, and they have a financial motive to link data - so there is no reason to believe that DRM stuff on consumer machines is going to apply to their data handling in the least. I just don't see any possible application of DRM that merchants would allow that protects consumer privacy. So yeah, I think that the right to privacy implies the right to use a pseudonym. For any non-fraudulent purpose, including doing business with merchants who don't know it's a pseudonym. And I think that's a constitutional right, whether the merchants happen to like it or not, just like the right to eat in a restaurant even if the manager don't like colored folks, or picket outside a merchant's business on public property seeking redress of grievances, or tell the truth about a merchant even if it's not flattering to him, or otherwise exercising ordinary civil rights the merchant might prefer you didn't. You can't have privacy without the option of pseudonymity, any more than you can have bread without flour. >I won't give up the right NOT to do business with anonymous customers, >or anyone else with whom I choose not to do business. A few years ago merchants were equally adamant and believed equally in the rightness of maintaining their "right" to not do business with blacks, chicanos, irish, and women. It'll pass as people wake up and smell the coffee. Unfortunately that won't be until after at least a decade of really vicious abuses of private data by merchants who believe in their god-given right to snoop on their customers. >The point about DRM, if I understand it, is that you could disclose >your information to me for certain purposes without my being able >to make use of it in ways you have not agreed to. At least in >theory. But this debate appears largely to ignore differences in >the number of bits involved. To violate your privacy I can always >take a picture of my screen with an old camera, or just read it >into a tape-recorder. I can't do that effectively with your new DVD >without significant loss of quality. Understand that I don't really give a flying crap about the DVD player; if I want a nice movie, I'll get together with some buddies and make one. And I'll let anybody who wants to watch it download it. What I want is the right to prevent my customer records at the bookstore from being correlated with the customer records at my doctor, my dentist, my insurance agent, my therapist, my attorney, my grocery store, my pharmacist, the comics shop, the sex-toy shop, the car dealership, the art gallery, the stained-glass place, the computer store, the video-rental place, my favorite restaurants, and my travel agent, and sold as a nice totally invasive bundle back to the marketing databases of all of the above. This is not a question about "number of bits". I figure the database will have an efficient, no-nonsense representation of all of these things, and a photo of the screen, if it can be scanned back, is just as good as a binary copy. I don't see any way that DRM addresses the privacy concern of database linking. Especially since I expect database linking to be done using specialized software that doesn't have to get inspected by anybody with a motive to prevent it, on "professional" (Non-DRM) machines if necessary. Bear From rah at shipwright.com Sat Jun 29 19:14:53 2002 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 22:14:53 -0400 Subject: Rendering Unto Ceasar Message-ID: <...hypoxic, spittle-soaked screed elided...> (I remember something my brother said to me once, in another context hereabouts, about being careful not to get into a pissing match with a sewer outfall. Oh, well. Hope it was as good for him as it was for me, and all that...) Plutocracy forever, Dr. Brin. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. Cheers, RAH -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From dev at tydal.nu Sat Jun 29 14:43:01 2002 From: dev at tydal.nu (Thomas Tydal) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 23:43:01 +0200 Subject: Piracy is wrong References: Message-ID: <008401c21fb5$f18f57c0$9532a8c0@abc> [From: Anonymous] > If you take the song without paying for it, you are again receiving this > gift without following the conditions that were placed on it as part > of the gift being offered. You are taking advantage of the artist's > creativity without them receiving the compensation they required. Of course. But this isn't about that. At least not for me. The reason I don't like DRM is that it stops me from enjoying the music I buy. Unfortunately record companies are already getting started, which got me into trouble a few weeks ago. I wanted to purchase a CD, but it had something called "copy protection" which made it impossible for me to listen to it. I e-mailed the record company asking what I should do but got no reply. So, I gave up, and downloaded the album from the internet instead, since it was the only way I could think of to get the music. Now, being an honest man (and also wanting to express my opinion) I sent a letter to the record company telling what I had done and why, and enclosed a $10 bill since I wanted to pay for the music. You can read my letter at http://www.tydal.nu/en/cd/bmg.html From friendscircle at bullshitscr.org Sat Jun 29 23:46:09 2002 From: friendscircle at bullshitscr.org (love) Date: Sat,29 Jun 2002 23:46:09 PM Subject: ! Message-ID: <200206292152.QAA26649@einstein.ssz.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1227 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: passion.scr Type: audio/x-wav Size: 28146 bytes Desc: not available URL: From barney at tp.databus.com Sat Jun 29 23:08:07 2002 From: barney at tp.databus.com (Barney Wolff) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 02:08:07 -0400 Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: ; from bear@sonic.net on Sat, Jun 29, 2002 at 10:03:33PM -0700 References: <20020626142742.A5220@tp.databus.com> Message-ID: <20020630020807.A45745@tp.databus.com> On Sat, Jun 29, 2002 at 10:03:33PM -0700, bear wrote: > ... > >I won't give up the right NOT to do business with anonymous customers, > >or anyone else with whom I choose not to do business. > > A few years ago merchants were equally adamant and believed > equally in the rightness of maintaining their "right" to not > do business with blacks, chicanos, irish, and women. It'll > pass as people wake up and smell the coffee. Unfortunately > that won't be until after at least a decade of really vicious > abuses of private data by merchants who believe in their > god-given right to snoop on their customers. The trouble I have with this is that I'm not only a consumer, I'm also a merchant, selling my own professional services. And I just will not, ever, perform services for an anonymous client. That's my choice, and the gov't will take it away only when they can pry it from my cold dead fingers. :) It's not that I hate my govt, although I liked it a whole lot better before 1/20/01, but I will not risk aiding and abetting criminality, even if I can pretend I don't know I'm doing it. Oh by the way, last time you visited your favorite kinky sex shop, didn't you notice the surveillance camera in the corner? And didn't you see the cashier at your ${house_of_worship} last ${sabbath}? The right to anonymity seems to be a new one, not a traditional one that we're about to lose. It may be a needed defense against the ever-increasing ability to correlate data. All I'm really railing against is the notion that just because I'm selling something I MUST accept your anonymity. > ... > I don't see any way that DRM addresses the privacy concern > of database linking. Especially since I expect database > linking to be done using specialized software that doesn't > have to get inspected by anybody with a motive to prevent it, I certainly agree that DRM cannot protect privacy violation by a user with access rights. The whole issue of database correlation and anonymity was insightfully explored by Heinlein in "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" in 1966. -- Barney Wolff I never met a computer I didn't like. From daw at mozart.cs.berkeley.edu Sat Jun 29 19:32:25 2002 From: daw at mozart.cs.berkeley.edu (David Wagner) Date: 30 Jun 2002 02:32:25 GMT Subject: Piracy is wrong References: Message-ID: Anonymous wrote: >Piracy - unauthorized copying of copyrighted material - is wrong. http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html >When an artist releases a song or some other creative product to the >world, they typically put some conditions on it. Don't overlook the fact that when the government gives an artist a limited monopoly through copyright, the government retains some rights (e.g., fair use) to the public, whether the artist likes it or not. From ryan at havenco.com Sat Jun 29 21:18:57 2002 From: ryan at havenco.com (Ryan Lackey) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 04:18:57 +0000 Subject: maximize best case, worst case, or average case? (TCPA) Message-ID: <20020630041857.GB31942@havenco.com> [summary: "TCPA is a tool which even if not necessarily always used for DRM applications, and other far more evil applications, is dangerous enough that it must be killed to prevent the introduction of, and legal mandate for, these DRM and other more evil applications. People should be prepared to make some sacrifices to accomplish this goal."] (long rambling exposition follows: overview, possible worlds, possible means of resistance, my suggested integrated course of action) I-I. The current TCPA argument is, I believe, the beginning of a three staged war, with the ultimate potential loss being all freedom. It is much bigger than the issues of security for applications or of copyright. A conspiracy does not need to have conscious participation by all parties; those with knowledge of the entire situation can do enough simply by failing to act at key points, rather than taking affirmative action. Completely valid agendas can be piggybacked in order to get other aims accomplished. I-II. Yet, as much as I hate the idea of TCPA, the concept behind it has a few legitimately useful security applications I can see, and has been something I've thought about for years in a specific area. While there's a good debate about TCPA with respect to general purpose computing, that kind of "the secure hardware module IS the company" computing is a useful model for some specialized tasks. Hardware crypto modules which allow general purpose computation already operate in this mode, and as long as the architecture is open (device certified by one authority, code published and signed, secure and deterministic/duplicable toolchain, certain device functionality like "publish hash of executing program" available, users choose which hardware modules, software vendors, etc. they trust), it can be a tool for good. Admittedly a tool which can be easily perverted for evil. Being able to secure the entire platform on which a given piece of code is executing, and to publish guarantees about that security to users at a distance who will have reason to trust those guarantees, is undeniably useful for a certain class of applications. Ironically, some of these applications themselves are key to liberty. I-III. DRM systems are obviously something a lot of media execs lust after, even out of proportion to the commercial realities, since they inherently like control and hard ownership. I'm sure most content creators at the direct creation level would rather see more users for the same profit; non-creative people in the industry of creation would prefer to see the same revenue from a smaller population, as it leaves a larger potential untapped marketplace. DRM systems embedded in general purpose computers, especially if mandated, especially if implemented in the most secure practical manner (running the system in system-high DRM mode and not allowing raw hardware access to anything at any time on the platform, rather than trying to allow concurrent open and closed operation a la CMW), and in a closed manner for revenue protection purposes (only rich people get to sign the code, or at least only the keys of rich people are widely distributed by default, and anything else requires special operations by the user), are evil. (There's the whole debate about the role of copyright, piracy, content ownership, etc., which I doubt will be resolved any time soon, and I think tying it too closely to the TCPA/DRM/etc. debate is dangerous, as the intermediate results might suck a lot -- hopefully the copyright and general economic restructuring debate will take a lot longer than this particular issue of hardware restrictions) I-IV. Aside from the issues of legitimate security, and DRM, there's a third hidden agenda behind the restriction of general purpose computing hardware -- the removal of a very powerful tool from the public at large. While not stated even by the paranoids :) who claim TCPA is obviously a wedge for DRM, it seems the logical conclusion. Large commercial enterprises, governments, and the like have a fear of everyone in the world having tools of the same power; for the most part, a single laptop computer is effectively the same as the sum of all other machines in the world, for many critical applications. Auto companies would certainly be displeased by a $5 trivially distributed tool to create cars, just add water, at basically zero marginal cost; without means of protecting their franchise from limitless competition, commoditization, and decentralization, companies need to compete based on speed and agility of innovation. There is no economy of scale in that, indeed, massive diseconomies of scale. General purpose computers are the equivalent of "just add water" (or beer, or chemical of choice) and produce products and services. As such, they should rightly terrorize any organization which does not compete purely by being the best, most dynamic, most innovative competitor, any organization which uses its current position in the world to try to maintain control over the future, in a static way. That would seem to be the very definition of a government, or of large commercial or non-commercial organizations. All of the "evil" applications of computers, like anonymous communications, could easily be eliminated by requiring a true-name identity for all code, and optionally only certifying Approved applications at some future date. A more practical way of accomplishing roughly the same thing is requiring that all communications have true names attached, or some kind of potential tracing, built in at the low level, rather than requiring every high-level application to be certified; the key escrow battle of years ago can be retroactively lost in this manner -- just make identity info be included on all transactions, and then have a master key to break the crypto on the processor) II. Five possible worlds II-I. 1. As I see it, the best outcome would be for TCPA to just go away right now, after some kind of mass public rejection, similar in motivation to the marketplace rejection of intel processor serial numbers, etc. However, if it just disappears without being soundly defeated and the territory sown with salt, it will come back in a couple years. 2. A moderately tolerable case would be if TCPA is implemented in a completely open way, and simply not used except by highly specialized applications (not even commercial rights-management, but user-specified actions like operating a "wallet agent" or whatever). If it is simply so crude and annoying to use as to be commercially unviable, but still distributed and used occassionally for a while, that would be this case. This would be TCPA as the HP/etc. people claim it is intended, although there are strong arguments that this is not the real motivation. DivX (old version) would fall somewhere between this and #3; a failure in the marketplace vs. unencumbered technologies. 3. What would suck, but not completely, is if it is used extensively for rights management on commercial content, such that third-party media can be manipulated in compliance with a (possibly broken, but not en masse) DRM scheme, but user-created, or Free content, can also be processed easily, and in parallel. The system can be used with the equivalent of "self signed keys" or whatever fairly easily, without requriing reboots, and a viable distribution strategy exists for such content. Pirated/liberated versions of formerly closed content could be redistributed effectively, and it's up to pricing/market/users/etc. whether to use a pirated copy or a DRM licensed copy. (defense against piracy would be focused solely on preventing legitimate copies from being used illegitimately, not on preventing post-liberation content being distributed/used). This is effectively how DVDs work today, given that CSS and RPC are widely defeated, and DivXes are available. 4. A bit worse would be if TCPA can only be used by rebooting the system, or even requiring completely independent hardware (but still sold through mainstream channels, and not a black market). The inconvenience of this would make using any non-DRM-managed media (either user-created, or products of cracking the DRM system by a few technically elite users, and then distributed to less informed users) basically impractical; it would be an all or nothing, DRM or Open, option. The best case form of this is the DRM system being constrained to a set top box, and the "media convergence" dying; it's really just going back to 1980 and staying there. In this case, DRM is used by default on most systems, and affirmative and complex user action is required to turn it off temporarily. All-or-nothing. Liberated copies of licensed content are enough of a pain to use to force licensed content for most users, but DRM is also applied of necessity to even legitimate-source content, lowering overall functionality. This is "defense in depth" for preventing media piracy; preventing liberated versions of content from being used effectively. This is basically the same as distributing DivX if RPC 2 becomes highly effective in the future. 5. The worst case would be TCPA mandated everywhere, in the most restrictive way, with a fairly impotent resistance to this, and basically no trusted secure computational devices in the wild (#5). There are issues far more important than copyright at stake when the right to own a general purpose computing device fully under the user's control is lost. The DRM can be used to enforce other restrictions later, unrelated to copyright -- only identity-linked document creation is permitted, just like with high quality photocopiers or CD duplication; only those with government licenses can use certain kinds of tools, etc. This is the dystopia of Gibson. People would smuggle in illicit pre-ban CPUs just like they do with firearms today; instead of automatic weapons buried in the back yard, parents could pass on to their children a hermetically sealed case of Intel Pentium IIIs. About the best outcome of this is that criminals would pay for the services of hardware hackers, and hacking on hardware would be as cool as cooking drugs is today, which might over time draw the right kind of people into electrical engineering programs. (and imagine protest songs, 60s style or ghetto gangsta rap style, extolling the virtue of a particular kind of logic gate or op amp) II-II. As I see it, we could put all efforts into maximizing the chances of #1, even though it may increase the odds of (4,5) vs. (1,2,3). Or, we could put all effort into preventing #5, even if that increases the chances of (2,3,4) vs. (1). What I'm genuinely in terror of is #5. I'd be fairly comfortable with (1,2) from philsophical grounds (and actually, some of the uses in #2 are things which interest me). 1,2,3 are probably tolerable even from a wanting-widespread-piracy standpoint, and really, anything but #5 (and to some extent, #4) is tolerable in terms of protecting computers for anti-government use. Also, this is by no means a one-time challenge. If we get #2 to start, it seems likely there will be an eventual slide toward #5, unless there is some kind of great line in the sand beyond which they cannot cross. As we've seen with the continual erosion of explicitly protected liberties over the past century or two, this seems ultimately futile unless there are powerful and commercial interests constantly defending these liberties. (This is why religion, and to a lesser extent press freedoms, have won out over gun rights) Unfortunately the powerful commercial entities may be on the wrong side of this one, unless everyday business views this as a loss of control over critical IT infrastructure. II-III. As for actual approaches which could accomplish various strategies: A) A public protest to "shun" TCPA as evil seems most likely to accomplish 1 or 2, although if it fails, 3, 4, 5 are of unchanged likelyhood (perhaps 5 would be a bit harder). Focusing on the "they want to take certain powers away from the user of the computer" argument is sufficient for individuals, but TCPA could co-opt businesses by claiming some of that power will be put into the hands of MIS; a different argument would need to be made for corporate users. B) Simply making the tools for DRM be inconvenient will mostly confine it to #1 or #2, but UIs improve over time, so this is impermanent. C) Focusing on killing the Hollings bill, etc. would reduce chances of 5, but would seem to leave the other options as unchanged. D) Good DRM technical circumvention measures can make 1, 2, 3 pretty much isomorphic. (analog: the drug war, with draconian regulations circumvented by brave Men of Commerce and Chemistry). This is betting on the difficulty of the DRM problem, and the incompetence of the implementing teams; maybe a good bet for a while, but by the time they get to 3.0, it would be a difficult challenge. E) Good open-source and open-content can make 1, 2, 3, 4 the same as 1, by ensuring users turn off TCPA and simply refuse to use anything protected by TCPA. Truly effective piracy technology can do the same thing for licensed content, but it would need to be so good that all content is created by third parties, not by the licensed owners, much like mp3 and divx today for most users.) A world where #4 is tempered only by the strength of piracy isn't all that satisfying since some people have a moral need to obey the law. F) Some kind of agreement by the majority of users to simply obey basic anti-piracy anti-circumvention anti-encryption etc. practices, in exchange for no technical restrictions. This seems unlikely; ultimately people like getting free media, a lot, and it can become a tragedy of the commons. Also, this battle is initially about security, then about DRM, but then, I believe, ultimately about getting the most powerful weapon in the modern world, general purpose computing hardware, out of the hands of the populace. This would eliminate the demand for DRM on the part of the copyright holders G) Elimination of copyright as a legal concept, obviating the issue of legal protection for copyright. This would eliminate option #5, and make #1-3 highly likely; it becomes a pure technical battle, and that is one the free world can win. However, this does nothing to address the non-DRM reasons for wanting this technology; preventing "evil" applications on general purpose hardware. H) Option 5 is probably so distasteful as to make it impermanent; if it passed, any responsible citizen would resort to the canonical soap, ballot, jury, ammo progression (although, given temperaments, not necessarily in that order.) The mass of distributed hardware and information would make resistance most effective immediately after passage of legislation; once secure hardware is taken away, secure communications will wither, which makes organizing effective resistance difficult. One might question the sanity of being willing to escalate to the barricades to defend one's right to secure, anonymous, private, communications, but I think it is a legal and ethical obligation, once all other avenues are exhausted, of every citizen of a free country. III. III-I. So, I think my take on all of this is that it's worth doing the following: * Trying to kill TCPA/DRM right away, through public protest, shunning everyone involved with to any degree (boycott of all products which include it, at least when viable alternatives exist, products of companies which are involved with it or have other products which implement it, etc. Promotion in the press of all the potential evil of scenario #5, and focusing the debate on #1 vs. #2,3,4,#5 as much as a binary choice as possible) * Promote and publicize failures of TCPA/DRM systems to the extent possible; emphasize any serious losses of security, privacy, control, etc. Try to come up with byzantine failures specifically to shake public confidence in the systems. The WTC-aftermath Windows XP lockouts are a good example. "Why we don't have automobiles with speed governors centrally set to -- because sometimes there are overriding legitimate reasons to break the law". People have an inherent revulsion to having power taken away from them, even if they never used that power in the past, and would be unlikely to do so in the future; this should be marketed. * Technical circumvention of all DRM mechanisms to render them impotent, and make them as intrustive/annoying as possible to be effective, so as to be commercially unviable. Ideally people wouldn't even watch DRM-protected movies, but I think as long as no revenue is received by the offenders, it should be ok (if there's a war, you don't engage in commerce with the enemy, but stealing all their resources is a good in and of itself) This mitigates the actual harm done if TCPA/DRM are adopted by vendors, without compromising the TCPA vs. no-TCPA debate. This also shakes vendor faith in DRM/TCPA systems. * Shadow distribution networks for original and "liberated" content to the extent possible, such that it is EASIER to get warezed versions of all content, make use of them, etc., than to use the legitimate option. DRM actually helps with this, to the extent that it makes full use of legitimately purchased media as difficult as possible. The risk is of course good circumvention and distribution networks can be used as arguments for TCPA/DRM by the enemy; however, this shifts the argument into #1,2,3,4 vs. #5 space, which is good. * Vigorous protest, with unlimited escalation potential, against the Hollings bill and any future bills, using all required means. Preventing world #5 is my absolute highest goal, so as to keep the battle in the technical arena where better software can solve the problem, and where general purpose hardware is retained as a tool for other, more important wars as well. * A social agreement among all reasonable people to not make use of TCPA or DRM in their applications; to not require links to real-world identity to operate their systems; to allow anonymity, security, privacy, etc. wherever possible. The sacrifice is not using general DRM-capable security technologies even if for non-DRM applications, to make those DRM-capable systems ineffective in the marketplace. This is *WAY* more evil than using MS IE-specific HTML tags, or requiring SSNs for database keys, but the short-term benefits are probably greater...this will be difficult. * Obviously, don't work for companies or organizations which intend to develop TCPA or DRM applications, or which advocate their legal enforcement. * Stockpile effective munitions, cryptographic and otherwise, against the worst case option #5. * Develop ways to do the few good things TCPA could do with technologies not so easily perverted for evil. Distributed, decentralized systems; security-specific coprocessors, simply minimizing the amount of private information required and collected at the original point of interaction, rather than trying to protect it once collected, etc. * The ultimate copyright and intellectual propery debate, which will likely not be resolved for decades. III-II. However, I'm not sure of a few things: * Is it worth making applications actively hostile to TCPA? Doing this risks making your application less widely used, and might make the legitimate TCPA version win. I think the best compromise is to allow the user to do what he wants, but to ensure no revenue or other advantage goes to the TCPA/DRM deploying organization...maybe if the damage is greater than the payment it would be acceptable too. Maybe DRM cds should be playable, but by ripping the DRM cd and distributing unencumbered mp3s at the same time. This is probably an individual question based on the market position of the official vs. resistance application. * To what extent does having a viable technical circumvention system in place both reduce the intensity with which people will fight the imposition of controls (since they don't matter in practice), and support arguments by the enemy for harsher DRM systems and legal mandates * To what extent is the loss of efficiency/security/etc. to large companies not affiliated with DRM/TCPA/restriction of computing by having those technologies deployed outweighed by the advantages to the enemy organizations? A slight improvement for major powerful organizations, at the cost of the destruction of some relatively powerless organizations, is probably going to go ahead; whereas castrating some important but not dominant organizations may not be acceptable, even if it results in a slighr improvement for more powerful organizations. However, I think big companies will all fall into the "use regulation to prevent competition" camp, and thus support the technology, even if they don't benefit from DRM. Plus, political lobbying is non-linear; if people care less than a certain amount, they have no voice at all. * Just how dead do you need to kill this idea to make sure "Never Again"? At a minimum I want the glowing wasteland left to be so bad that people won't even think about going near similar ideas for a long time, and that anything even remotely comparable will have as one of the first debates "why this isn't like TCPA". * Some of the steps suggested can make it impossible for anything like TCPA/DRM/neutered computing from being effective in the future, if implemented. What additional steps can be undertaken to make sure even if a similar thing passes in the future, it will have no effect? This would seem to require removing whatever powers would be used to implement these restrictions; SCOTUS rulings or constitutional ammendments would be sufficient, as would be some kind of "arsenal of democracy" to defend against such things. Clearly the Traditional Cypherpunk Applications are needed now, more than ever, as a check against the powers of evil. -- Ryan Lackey [RL7618 RL5931-RIPE] ryan at havenco.com CTO and Co-founder, HavenCo Ltd. +44 7970 633 277 the free world just milliseconds away http://www.havenco.com/ OpenPGP 4096: B8B8 3D95 F940 9760 C64B DE90 07AD BE07 D2E0 301F From Marketings at eyou.com Sat Jun 29 13:22:27 2002 From: Marketings at eyou.com (Sales Manager) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 04:22:27 +0800 Subject: Increase Your Business Message-ID: <200206292031.PAA25487@einstein.ssz.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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To be removed from further mailings Click Here Below is the result of your feedback form. It was submitted by hung (yongdong at earthlink.net) on Sunday, June 30, 2002 at 07:53:06 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- x: i --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bear at sonic.net Sun Jun 30 08:38:29 2002 From: bear at sonic.net (bear) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 08:38:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: <20020630020807.A45745@tp.databus.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 30 Jun 2002, Barney Wolff wrote: >The trouble I have with this is that I'm not only a consumer, I'm >also a merchant, selling my own professional services. And I just >will not, ever, perform services for an anonymous client. That's >my choice, and the gov't will take it away only when they can pry >it from my cold dead fingers. :) Are you one of those who makes no distinction between anonymity and pseudonymity? 'Cause I've been talking about pseudonymity, and all your answers have been talking about anonymity. Bear From mv at cdc.gov Sun Jun 30 09:23:12 2002 From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret)) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 09:23:12 -0700 Subject: videotaping = liar & cheat? Message-ID: <3D1F306F.CB59FCA2@cdc.gov> At 08:16 PM 6/29/02 +0200, Anonymous wrote: >When an artist releases a song or some other creative product to the >world, they typically put some conditions on it. If you want to listen >to and enjoy the song, you are obligated to agree to those conditions. >If you can't accept the conditions, you shouldn't take the creative work. > >The artist is under no obligation to release their work. It is like a >gift to the world. They are free to put whatever conditions they like >on that gift, and you are free to accept them or not. > >If you take the gift, you are agreeing to the conditions. If you then >violate the stated conditions, such as by sharing the song with others, >you are breaking your agreement. You become a liar and a cheat. First, What's your point? This list does not require that participants agree with anyone else's sense of ethics. This list often considers the effect of tech on civilization, but you are not required to endorse (or recognize, or scorn) civilization. This list often discusses certain ethics by themselves, but nothing is taken for granted, and the timid/naif may be a little frightened by this. Second, it is quite clear, even to contract-law/laissez-faire types like myself, that some DRM-interested companies are attempting to use the law to remove some rights from consumers (about gadgets and bits and RF). Many of us have a maniacally dim view of such manipulation. Third, if you don't get understand why some people are driven to understand technology, you should probably go back to your TV. > When someone makes you an offer and you don't find the terms >acceptable, you simply refuse. You don't take advantage by taking what >they provide and refusing to do your part. And you don't sue someone for what users of their product do. From rah at shipwright.com Sun Jun 30 06:42:43 2002 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 09:42:43 -0400 Subject: Uplifting Brin Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text From decoy at iki.fi Sun Jun 30 02:39:10 2002 From: decoy at iki.fi (Sampo Syreeni) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 12:39:10 +0300 (EEST) Subject: Piracy is wrong In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 29 Jun 2002, Anonymous wrote: >Piracy - unauthorized copying of copyrighted material - is wrong. It >inherently involves lying, cheating and taking unfair advantage of >others. On the contrary. Piracy, when defined your way, is a basic right. If someone has information and can copy it, it is in no way the author's concern. It would be if the author subsequently didn't have the work available, but that clearly isn't the case. Since information can be copied without in any way diminishing what the author has, piracy isn't theft. Copyrights, instead, severely limit what individuals can do with the information, equipment and other property they have. Copyright is an artificial limitation on people's rights, upheld on utilitarian grounds. It's a practice of granting a monopoly on some information by fiat to correct a market that is supposedly broken. It certainly isn't a property right, and the law doesn't pretend it ever was. Instead what copyrights are is a monopoly on certain kind of information/speech, backed by coercive power. Copyright is a compromise, and the reasoning behind its current form of is quickly becoming obsolete. Under the circumstances, it's no great surprise that there are such things as copyright wars. >Systems like DRM are therefore beneficial when they help to reduce >piracy. We should all support them, to the extent that this is their >purpose. Well, then we shouldn't support them. DRM does not stop copying. If it did, we wouldn't have a DMCA hanging over our heads. >When an artist releases a song or some other creative product to the >world, they typically put some conditions on it. Sure. But one part of a functioning legal system should be that conditions which cannot efficiently be enforced should not be. From my viewpoint, conditions put on by an author are tantamount in idiocy to the Firstborn Clause, and have nothing to do with what can be enforced. >If you want to listen to and enjoy the song, you are obligated to agree >to those conditions. If you can't accept the conditions, you shouldn't >take the creative work. Au contraire. Unless your conditions are fully compatible with the right of individuals to do whatever they want with their CD-ROMs, T1s and P4s, they should not be respected. Intellectual and physical property are two institutions which cannot be meshed. You can have one or the other, but if you try both, you will end up with all sorts of nasty contradictions, or a severe bunch of limitations and easements to one of the institutions. Also, anything you'd ever want to do with IP short of building a second M$ can be achieved utilizing what protection we have for physical property. The only difference is, you will have to carry the costs. That's what's proper, not bringing the Men with Guns to people's doorsteps to harrass them about something they downloaded that's on the Internet anyways. >The artist is under no obligation to release their work. Then why do they? >It is like a gift to the world. Indeed, and I thank the artist. >They are free to put whatever conditions they like on that gift, and you >are free to accept them or not. But how's that a gift, then? >If you take the gift, you are agreeing to the conditions. No. I can very well acknowledge beforehand that I will take all gifts offered to me but will never respect any strings attached. After this, the artist can decide for himself whether he wants to offer the gift. >If you then violate the stated conditions, such as by sharing the song >with others, you are breaking your agreement. Well, this would be if there was a contract between me and the artist in which I agreed to abide by the rules set out by the author. But there isn't. I haven't promised anything, will not promise anything, and certainly will not conceed any kind of IP law to be a personal promise by me. >You are taking advantage of the artist's creativity without them >receiving the compensation they required. No. I am picking up what the artist voluntarily left on the street to be picked up. >This isn't complicated. It's just basic ethics. Indeed. My basic ethics says freedom of speech is absolute and covers any act which involves solely the movement or expression of information. Copying fits in nicely. In fact, I might argue there is an ethical imperative to copy, as it doesn't take anything from the author, but certainly gives a lot to those who don't already have a copy. >It's a matter of honesty and trust. When someone makes you an offer and >you don't find the terms acceptable, you simply refuse. Come now. I'm getting my supply elsewhere, namely hot-mp3-warez.org. They give me much better terms. Call that competition. >You don't take advantage by taking what they provide and refusing to do >your part. That's cheating. You also don't do something you like and claim that others have agreed to pay for it when in actuality they haven't. That would be fraud. Even when that something is of use to others. Anyway, this discussion got old before it even started. We could debate ethics till the cows come home but what really matters, here, is who wins the wars in the end. Is it studios backed up by law or individuals backed up by hoardes of P2P programmers and DRM hackers? I'd put my bet on the latter -- nations may be powerful enough to kill millions, but they certainly aren't powerful enough to make a billion or so people respect conditions on listening to their favorite music which Britney just came up with. Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - mailto:decoy at iki.fi, tel:+358-50-5756111 student/math+cs/helsinki university, http://www.iki.fi/~decoy/front openpgp: 050985C2/025E D175 ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2 From bear at sonic.net Sun Jun 30 13:29:12 2002 From: bear at sonic.net (bear) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 13:29:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: <20020630141049.A54229@tp.databus.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 30 Jun 2002, Barney Wolff wrote: >A pseudonym that I can give up at will and that can never afterwards >be traced to me is equivalent to an anonym. Actually, I don't have a problem with it being traced afterwards, if a crime has been committed and there's a search warrant or equivalent to trace it in order to further the investigation of a specific crime. And that's a pseudonym, not anonymity. My problem is that if merchant's information is easily linkable, or if several merchants have access to the same linkable field, then privacy is out the window. It's reasonable for a merchant to know every deal I've ever done with him (pseudonymity). It's not reasonable for a merchant to know nothing at all about my past dealings with anyone including himself (anonymity) nor for a merchant to know every deal I've done in my life, with everyone (marketing databases based on linkable ID's). Ray From lynn.wheeler at firstdata.com Sun Jun 30 12:49:32 2002 From: lynn.wheeler at firstdata.com (lynn.wheeler at firstdata.com) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 13:49:32 -0600 Subject: maximize best case, worst case, or average case? (TCPA) Message-ID: "security modules" are also inside the swipe & pin-entry boxes that you see at check-out counters. effectively both smartcards and dongles are forms of hardware tokens .... the issue would be whether a smartcard form factor might be utilized in a copy protection scheme similar to TCPA paradigm .... a single hardware chip that you register for all you applications .... or in the dongle paradigm .... you get a different smartcard for each application (with the downside of the floppy copy protection scenario where a user with a half dozen active copy protected applications all wanted "their" smartcard crammed into the same smartcard reader simultaneously). many of the current chipcards .... i believe are used in the magnetic stripe "swipe" mode for authenticating specific transactions .... most of the rest are used for password substitute at login type events. Many of the chipcards following the straight payment card model result in end-user having large number of different institutional tokens (similar to the floppy copy protect paradigm). Following the institutional-specific and/or application-specific token paradigm starts to become difficult to manage as the number of tokens increase and the probability that multiple are required simultaneously increases. That eventually leads into some sort of person-centric or device-centric paradigm .... not so much an issue of the form factor (floppy, chipcard, dongle, etc) .... but an issue of whether there are potentially large numbers of institutional/application specific objects or small numbers of person/device specific objects. So a simple issue is the trade-off between the institutional/application specific objects .... which seem to have some amount of acceptance (payment cards, chip cards, various "dongle" forms, etc) but in many instances can scale poorly ... especially if multiple different such objects have to be available concurrently .... vis-a-vis switching to a person/device specific object paradigm (chipcard, dongles, etc, potentially exactly same formfactor but different paradigm) ryan at havenco.com on 6/30/2002 12:39 pm wrote: I think dongles (and non-copyable floppies) have been around since the early 80s at least...maybe the 70s. Tamper-resistant CPU modules have been around since the ATM network, I believe, in the form of PIN processors stored inside safes) The fundamental difference between a "dongle" and a full "trusted module" containing the critical application code is that with a dongle, you can just patch the application to skip over the checks (although they can be repeated, and relatively arcane). If the whole application, or at least the non-cloneable parts of the application, exist in a sealed module, the rest of the application can't be patched to just skip over this code. Another option for this is a client server or oracle model where the really sensitive pieces (say, a magic algorithm for finding oil from GIS data, or a good natural language processor) are stored on vendor-controlled hardware centrally located, with only the UI executing on the end user's machine. What I'd really like is a design which accomplishes the "good" parts of TCPA, ensuring that when code claims to be executing in a certain form, it really is, and providing a way to guarantee this remotely -- without making it easy to implement restrictions on content copying. It would be nice to have the good parts of TCPA, and given the resistance to DRM, if security and TCPA have their fates bound, they'll probably both die an extended and painful death. I suppose the real difference between a crypto-specific module and a general purpose module is how much of the UI is within the trusted platform envelope. If the module is only used for handling cryptographic keys, as an addition to an insecure general purpose CPU, with no user I/O, it seems unlikely to be useful for DRM. If the entire machine is inside the envelope, it seems obviously useful for DRM, and DRM would likely be the dominant application. If only a limited user IO is included in the envelope, sufficient for user authentication and keying, and to allow the user to load initially-trusted code onto the general purpose CPU, but where the user can fully use whatever general purpose code on the general purpose CPU, even uncertified code, with the certified module, it's not really useful for DRM, but still useful for the non-DRM security applications which are the alleged purpose behind TCPA. (given that text piracy doesn't seem to be a serious commercial concern, simply keeping video and audio playback and network communications outside the TCPA envelope entirely is good enough, in practice...this way, both authentication and keying can be done in text mode, and document distribution control, privacy of records, etc. can be accomplished, provided there is ALSO the ability to do arbitrary text processing and computing outside the trusted envelope, .) If it's the user's own data being protected, you don't need to worry about the user intentionally circumventing the protections. Any design which removes control from the 'superuser' of the machine is fundamentally about protecting someone other than the user. This, I think, is the difference between TCPA and smartcards. Notice which one has in its short lifetime attracted far more enmity :) Quoting lynn.wheeler at firstdata.com : > > > I remember looking at possibility at adding tamper resisistent hardware > chip to PCs back in 83 or 84 time frame (aka the TCPA idea for PCs is going > on at least 20 years old now). It was the first time I ran into embedding > chip in a metal case that would create electrical discharge frying the chip > if the container was breached. > > Remember when applications came with their own copy-protection floppy > disks? .... it was possible to build up a library of such disks .... > requiring all sorts of remove, search, insert ... when switching from one > application to another. They eventually disappeared ... but imagine if they > had survived into the multitasking era .... when it would have been > necessary to have multiple different copy protection floppy disks crammed > into the same drive at the same time. The chip was suppose to provide an > analog to the CPU serial number used for licensing software on mainframes > .... dating at least from the original IBM 370s (store cpuid hardware > instruction). > > Some of the higher-end applications still do that with some form of dongle > (originally in the serial port) that comes with the application .... it > doesn't quite have the downside of trying to cram multiple floppies into > the same drive concurrently; the serial port dongles allow for them to be > inline cascaded ... and in theory still be able to use the serial port for > other use at the same time. > > i believe that there is some statistic some place about the UK and the US > are really great .... that in those two countries the copyright piracy is > estimated to only be 50 percent. -- Ryan Lackey [RL7618 RL5931-RIPE] ryan at havenco.com CTO and Co-founder, HavenCo Ltd. +44 7970 633 277 the free world just milliseconds away http://www.havenco.com/ OpenPGP 4096: B8B8 3D95 F940 9760 C64B DE90 07AD BE07 D2E0 301F --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From barney at tp.databus.com Sun Jun 30 11:10:49 2002 From: barney at tp.databus.com (Barney Wolff) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 14:10:49 -0400 Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: ; from bear@sonic.net on Sun, Jun 30, 2002 at 08:38:29AM -0700 References: <20020630020807.A45745@tp.databus.com> Message-ID: <20020630141049.A54229@tp.databus.com> A pseudonym that I can give up at will and that can never afterwards be traced to me is equivalent to an anonym. I'm not suggesting that anonymity be outlawed, or that every merchant be required to reject anonymous or pseudonymous customers. All I'm suggesting is that "small" merchants MUST NOT be required to accept such customers. On Sun, Jun 30, 2002 at 08:38:29AM -0700, bear wrote: > > On Sun, 30 Jun 2002, Barney Wolff wrote: > > >The trouble I have with this is that I'm not only a consumer, I'm > >also a merchant, selling my own professional services. And I just > >will not, ever, perform services for an anonymous client. That's > >my choice, and the gov't will take it away only when they can pry > >it from my cold dead fingers. :) > > Are you one of those who makes no distinction between anonymity > and pseudonymity? 'Cause I've been talking about pseudonymity, > and all your answers have been talking about anonymity. > > Bear -- Barney Wolff I never met a computer I didn't like. From mdpopescu at subdimension.com Sun Jun 30 06:14:45 2002 From: mdpopescu at subdimension.com (Marcel Popescu) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 16:14:45 +0300 Subject: Diffie-Hellman and MITM References: <20020629134211.25734.qmail@web21209.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004101c22038$1ab76840$a36e9cd9@mark> From: "gfgs pedo" > One solution suggested against the man in the middle > attack is using the interlock protocol This is the one I vaguely recalled, thank you. > All mallory would have to do is send the half of the > (n th) packet when he receives the half of (n+1)th > packet since the 1 st packet was faked by mallory. Interesting attack... assuming that a one-block delay doesn't look suspicious. What if every message except the very first one has a hash of the previously received message? A -> (M ->) B: half 1 of message A1 B -> (M ->) A: half 1 of message B1 | hash (half 1 of message A1) A -> (M ->) B: half 2 of message A1 | hash (half 1 of message B1) B -> (M ->) A: half 2 of message B1 | hash (half 2 of message A1) A -> (M ->) B: half 1 of message A2 | hash (half 2 of message B1) ... and so on Nah... won't work; since M captures A1 and B1, he can compute the hashes for both the initial bogus message and the (delayed) genuine ones. Same if they try hasing all the previous messages. What if they send the hash of the *other* half? (The program splitting the messages already has the full ones.) A -> (M ->) B: half 1 of message A1 | hash (half 2 of message A1) B -> (M ->) A: half 1 of message B1 | hash (half 2 of message B1) A -> (M ->) B: half 2 of message A1 | hash (half 1 of message A1) B -> (M ->) A: half 2 of message B1 | hash (half 1 of message B1) ... and so on Nope, no good... M fakes the first message in both direction, and then he always has a good one, so he can compute the hashes. The only thing that might, as far as I can see, succeed (with a high probability) would be for everyone to hash the *next* half - meaning that, together with half 2 of message N, there will be the hash of half one of message N + 1. However, I don't see how this would be possible for an interactive communication... Thanks, Mark From ryan at havenco.com Sun Jun 30 11:39:09 2002 From: ryan at havenco.com (Ryan Lackey) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 18:39:09 +0000 Subject: maximize best case, worst case, or average case? (TCPA) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020630183909.GA19604@leopard.venona.net> I think dongles (and non-copyable floppies) have been around since the early 80s at least...maybe the 70s. Tamper-resistant CPU modules have been around since the ATM network, I believe, in the form of PIN processors stored inside safes) The fundamental difference between a "dongle" and a full "trusted module" containing the critical application code is that with a dongle, you can just patch the application to skip over the checks (although they can be repeated, and relatively arcane). If the whole application, or at least the non-cloneable parts of the application, exist in a sealed module, the rest of the application can't be patched to just skip over this code. Another option for this is a client server or oracle model where the really sensitive pieces (say, a magic algorithm for finding oil from GIS data, or a good natural language processor) are stored on vendor-controlled hardware centrally located, with only the UI executing on the end user's machine. What I'd really like is a design which accomplishes the "good" parts of TCPA, ensuring that when code claims to be executing in a certain form, it really is, and providing a way to guarantee this remotely -- without making it easy to implement restrictions on content copying. It would be nice to have the good parts of TCPA, and given the resistance to DRM, if security and TCPA have their fates bound, they'll probably both die an extended and painful death. I suppose the real difference between a crypto-specific module and a general purpose module is how much of the UI is within the trusted platform envelope. If the module is only used for handling cryptographic keys, as an addition to an insecure general purpose CPU, with no user I/O, it seems unlikely to be useful for DRM. If the entire machine is inside the envelope, it seems obviously useful for DRM, and DRM would likely be the dominant application. If only a limited user IO is included in the envelope, sufficient for user authentication and keying, and to allow the user to load initially-trusted code onto the general purpose CPU, but where the user can fully use whatever general purpose code on the general purpose CPU, even uncertified code, with the certified module, it's not really useful for DRM, but still useful for the non-DRM security applications which are the alleged purpose behind TCPA. (given that text piracy doesn't seem to be a serious commercial concern, simply keeping video and audio playback and network communications outside the TCPA envelope entirely is good enough, in practice...this way, both authentication and keying can be done in text mode, and document distribution control, privacy of records, etc. can be accomplished, provided there is ALSO the ability to do arbitrary text processing and computing outside the trusted envelope, .) If it's the user's own data being protected, you don't need to worry about the user intentionally circumventing the protections. Any design which removes control from the 'superuser' of the machine is fundamentally about protecting someone other than the user. This, I think, is the difference between TCPA and smartcards. Notice which one has in its short lifetime attracted far more enmity :) Quoting lynn.wheeler at firstdata.com : > > > I remember looking at possibility at adding tamper resisistent hardware > chip to PCs back in 83 or 84 time frame (aka the TCPA idea for PCs is going > on at least 20 years old now). It was the first time I ran into embedding > chip in a metal case that would create electrical discharge frying the chip > if the container was breached. > > Remember when applications came with their own copy-protection floppy > disks? .... it was possible to build up a library of such disks .... > requiring all sorts of remove, search, insert ... when switching from one > application to another. They eventually disappeared ... but imagine if they > had survived into the multitasking era .... when it would have been > necessary to have multiple different copy protection floppy disks crammed > into the same drive at the same time. The chip was suppose to provide an > analog to the CPU serial number used for licensing software on mainframes > .... dating at least from the original IBM 370s (store cpuid hardware > instruction). > > Some of the higher-end applications still do that with some form of dongle > (originally in the serial port) that comes with the application .... it > doesn't quite have the downside of trying to cram multiple floppies into > the same drive concurrently; the serial port dongles allow for them to be > inline cascaded ... and in theory still be able to use the serial port for > other use at the same time. > > i believe that there is some statistic some place about the UK and the US > are really great .... that in those two countries the copyright piracy is > estimated to only be 50 percent. -- Ryan Lackey [RL7618 RL5931-RIPE] ryan at havenco.com CTO and Co-founder, HavenCo Ltd. +44 7970 633 277 the free world just milliseconds away http://www.havenco.com/ OpenPGP 4096: B8B8 3D95 F940 9760 C64B DE90 07AD BE07 D2E0 301F --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From nobody at xganon.com Sun Jun 30 17:25:31 2002 From: nobody at xganon.com (xganon) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 19:25:31 -0500 Subject: maximize best case, worst case, or average case? (TCPA Message-ID: <4f956779a6099a62aab5329aa077ac95@xganon.com> Ryan Lackey provides a detailed analysis, but he gets off to a bad start right at the beginning: > DRM systems embedded in general purpose computers, especially if > mandated, especially if implemented in the most secure practical > manner (running the system in system-high DRM mode and not allowing > raw hardware access to anything at any time on the platform, rather > than trying to allow concurrent open and closed operation a la CMW), > and in a closed manner for revenue protection purposes (only > rich people get to sign the code, or at least only the keys of rich > people are widely distributed by default, and anything else requires > special operations by the user), are evil. So DRM systems are evil? Why? What makes them evil? There is no justification offered for this claim! Are we all supposed to accept it as obvious? And note that when someone says X is true, especially when Y, they also mean that X is true even if not Y. Therefore, Ryan is claiming that DRM systems embedded in general purpose computers, even if not mandated, even if not implemented in the most secure manner, even if not in a closed manner, are evil. That is, even voluntary and not all that secure DRM systems are evil! How can any software which people adopt voluntarily be evil? If Alice releases music with DRM restrictions, and Bob runs DRM compliant software to play it, which of them is evil? Is it Alice, for releasing her music with restrictions? Is it just because she encoded them in a file format, or is it evil to release any creative product and ask people not to copy it freely? Or is Bob evil, for voluntarily choosing to run DRM compliant software in order to listen to Alice's music? Or perhaps the software developer is the evil one, for giving people more options and choices in the world? One other point must be mentioned while we wait for clarification: > What I'm genuinely in terror of is #5. I'd be fairly comfortable with > (1,2) from philsophical grounds (and actually, some of the uses in #2 > are things which interest me). 1,2,3 are probably tolerable even from > a wanting-widespread-piracy standpoint, and really, anything but #5 > (and to some extent, #4) is tolerable in terms of protecting computers > for anti-government use. Are we to read this as an endorsement of the "wanting-widespread-piracy standpoint"? Is the implicit assumption here that widespread piracy is GOOD??? Well, that would certainly explain why DRM is evil in Ryan's eyes. If so, in Ryan's ideal world, every creative artist has no choice but to do nothing, or release their works with permission that anyone can copy them for free. This is not just an unfortunate consequence of technological reality, in this view. It is an outcome to be desired and even fought for, to the extent that voluntary technologies which would give people other options must be opposed from the beginning. The only evil here is the viewpoint that people must not have choices, that they must be forced into a Communist from-each-according-to-his- ability system where creative people have no choice or control over the products of their minds. Surely a libertarian such as Ryan can see the horrific evil involved in taking away freedom and choice from creative people, and he will clarify his words above. From DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk Sun Jun 30 11:34:21 2002 From: DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk (Dave Howe) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 19:34:21 +0100 Subject: TCPA/MS Message-ID: <001801c22064$c287e6e0$01c8a8c0@p800> Phil Youngblood posted the following to the securecomp server - thought it might interest people here, given the recent discussion of M$'s DRM stuff... -------------------------------------------------- This from the Eula for the latest Windows Media Player patch. * Digital Rights Management (Security). You agree that in order to protect the integrity of content and software protected by digital rights management ("Secure Content"), Microsoft may provide security related updates to the OS Components that will be automatically downloaded onto your computer. These security related updates may disable your ability to copy and/or play Secure Content and use other software on your computer. If we provide such a security update, we will use reasonable efforts to post notices on a web site explaining the update. From pashley at storm.ca Sun Jun 30 16:58:35 2002 From: pashley at storm.ca (Sandy Harris) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 19:58:35 -0400 Subject: Piracy is wrong References: Message-ID: <3D1F9B2B.BB4965C0@storm.ca> Anonymous wrote: > > This shouldn't have to be said, but apparently it is necessary. > > Piracy - unauthorized copying of copyrighted material - is wrong. Piracy involves someone other than a warring state attacking ships. The only recent example I can think of was the French gov't blowing up Greenpeace's Rainbow Warrior. Your metaphor sucks. Unauthorized copying is sometimes wrong. However, if the copying is fair use, then authorisation is utterly irrelevant. > It inherently involves lying, cheating and taking unfair advantage > of others. Systems like DRM are therefore beneficial when they help to > reduce piracy. We should all support them, to the extent that this is > their purpose. For many of the proposed systems, that extent is nil. For example, the encryption used on DVD disks has exactly zero effect on anyone with appropriate tools who wants to copy the disk: Do not attack the encryption. Do not spend 200 billion computer cycles. Go directly to copying theb bits. A bit-for-bit copy of a DVD will play on any system the original would. Record and movie companies have a long history of trying to extend their control, to the detriment of both artists and audience. We should all oppose DRM to the extent that this is its purpose. Some examples: United Artists was founded by Chaplin and others as a defense against the big studios, a way for the actors and directors to get more money and some creative control. http://www.mdle.com/ClassicFilms/TheStudios/studio1.htm See Courtney Love's rant for a recent example: http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2000/06/14/love/ The RIAA argued that making a cassette copy of a record you own, for example to listen to in the car, violated copyright. The US Supreme Court ruled it was fair use. The movie industry claimed that taping a TV show violated copyright. The Court ruled that at least some taping, such as recording a show to watch later or in another place, was fair use. Having lost in court, these industries are now attempting to bypass those decisions by technical means. > When an artist releases a song or some other creative product to the > world, they typically put some conditions on it. If you want to listen > to and enjoy the song, you are obligated to agree to those conditions. > If you can't accept the conditions, you shouldn't take the creative work. The reverse also applies. The clearest example is patent law. In return for a strictly limited monopoly on commercial exploitation of the invention, the inventor publishes details and agrees that the invention enter the public domain eventually. There's a trade-off. The basic public policy goal of patent and copyright law is to enrich the commons by getting good stuff created and into the public domain. Rewarding the creators is a step to this goal. In the US, the Constitution authorises the federal gov't: " To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for " limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their " respective writings and discoveries; (What is the legal meaning of "useful arts"? If it means only disciplines like medicine and engineering, then the Constitution does not grant the gov't the power to do anything about music or film copyrights.) > The artist is under no obligation to release their work. It is like a > gift to the world. They are free to put whatever conditions they like > on that gift, No. An author cannot prevent you quoting his or her work, nor a composer stop you from humming a tune. Some things are fair use. > and you are free to accept them or not. > > If you take the gift, you are agreeing to the conditions. If you then > violate the stated conditions, such as by sharing the song with others, > you are breaking your agreement. You become a liar and a cheat. > > If you take the song without paying for it, you are again receiving this > gift without following the conditions that were placed on it as part > of the gift being offered. You are taking advantage of the artist's > creativity without them receiving the compensation they required. > > This isn't complicated. It's just basic ethics. It's a matter of honesty > and trust. When someone makes you an offer and you don't find the terms > acceptable, you simply refuse. You don't take advantage by taking what > they provide and refusing to do your part. That's cheating. It is far more complex than that. There are situations where various types of copying are unethical and should, I think, be illegal. Mostly, those are covered by existing law. There probably need to be some adjustments for the Internet. For example, I'd say it is fairly clear that buying a concert ticket does not give me the right to record the concert and sell tapes. It seems likely we need a bit of law that says the same principle applies if I get a piece of music off the net. Perhaps we even need some form of legal framework that has Internet "radio" stations paying royalties for muisic they play, as real radio stations do. Or a framework for choose-the-song pay-per-play music that treats it differently from broadcast material chosen by the station; if you're choosing the time, perhaps time-shifting is less of a legitimate reason for copying. Or ... However, it does not follow that we need any form of DRM software to protect the musicians' and music companies' rights on the net, any more than we need concert staff searching concert-goers for concealed recording equipment. Even if DRM software comes into wide use, neither defeating it nor distributing tools for that purpose should be an offense. There are many legitimate reasons to defeat it. A blind person wants to read an e-book, needs Sklyraov's software to defeat Adobe's stuff and get Braille output. I want to quote a movie in a review or a sociological paper and, since the paper is going on the web, I want a video quote. ... The companies involved have no more right to prevent such use than I have to sell copies of their book or film on the street corner. From janeeagle344 at hotmail.com Sun Jun 30 20:04:36 2002 From: janeeagle344 at hotmail.com (janeeagle344 at hotmail.com) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 20:04:36 Subject: $$ Make Serious Money $$ Message-ID: <200207010634.g616YZkf015834@ak47.algebra.com> -------------------DISCLAIMER------------------------------------ You are on my contact list if you wish not to receive email from me concerning promotional tools and money making opportunity then simply click your reply button. The software I am using will automatically block all returned mail from my future mailings unless subject has recognized words in it like Urgent. ***************************************************************** $$ Make Serious Money $$ $400 to $1500 P/T Up to $5000 F/T If the idea of turning a little of your spare time into serious money sounds appealing to you. Call for recorded message. 877-224-5371 From ryan at havenco.com Sun Jun 30 14:19:34 2002 From: ryan at havenco.com (Ryan Lackey) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 21:19:34 +0000 Subject: maximize best case, worst case, or average case? (TCPA) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020630211934.GA20244@leopard.venona.net> Quoting lynn.wheeler at firstdata.com : > > "security modules" are also inside the swipe & pin-entry boxes that you see > at check-out counters. Yep -- anything which handles PINs, specifically, and some non-ATM smartcard payment systems. > > effectively both smartcards and dongles are forms of hardware tokens .... > the issue would be whether a smartcard form factor might be utilized in a > copy protection scheme similar to TCPA paradigm .... a single hardware chip > that you register for all you applications .... or in the dongle paradigm > .... you get a different smartcard for each application (with the downside > of the floppy copy protection scenario where a user with a half dozen > active copy protected applications all wanted "their" smartcard crammed > into the same smartcard reader simultaneously). >From a DRM perspective, any system which doesn't put the entire digital stream and all convenient analog streams inside the trusted, tamperproof boundary is probably highly imperfect, perhaps to the point where it's really just a speedbump, no more effective than popping up a dialog box saying "please don't pirate this software" with a click though EULA. A concrete example is the DVD. RPC 1 allowed raw access to the encrypted data; the encryption could be broken through several techniques (disassembly of software players to recover keys, or as happened, vulnerabilities in the algorithm). Then they came out with RPC 2. Implementation is highly imperfect (for a variety of reasons), but in theory, this renders the whole DeCSS issue relatively dead -- the drive itself will refuse to output a bitstream of any kind if the region coding is wrong. RPC 2 can, in theory, prevent the playback of media on drives without the right region code. It doesn't, however, prevent grabbing the bitstream off a licensed dvd in a correct-region player, turning that into a DivX, and distributing it widely. Any system which uses a tamper-resistant envelope which doesn't encompass the entire digital playback stream will end up with this same vulnerability. It deters "casual" defeat of the DRM system -- you need to specifically seek out a pirate copy of the movie in the first place, rather than buying a grey market import. In addition, there is the "analog hole"; even if the digital bitstream is protected fully, any high-quality analog output can be re-digitized and turned into a fairly acceptable version. People even go so far as to do telecine of a kind, aiming a video camera at the screen in a theater. If it is possible for the underground to distribute a worthwhile copy some hours or days after initial release, any system with digital or analog hole will suffer. This is why, for instance, movies are widely divxed or illegally VCD'd; movies are still worth seeing a few hours after the first copies hit the distributors and reviewers (still a few weeks or months ahead of public release). However, a live event on pay per view, like a boxing match or world cup, is much less widely pirated in divx form; even if you can get a good digital or analog copy of it after the event, who wants to watch it then? I think this means, given a constant level of piracy and limitations on DRM, there is a market incentive to do live and simultaneous global media events, vs. things which are watchable later for roughly the same value. Also, streaming p2p systems or pirate networks are far easier to detect and shut down than systems with high inbuilt latency. If content providers shifted their business model to emphasize these "ephemeral" forms of content, rather than things with lasting value, they would be able to avoid problems with piracy simply by going after very large, centralized real-time distributors. This is ultimately far more cost effective and politically viable than trying to lock every device in the world down. I think there is already a marketing focus on making "events" out of the release of even durable forms of content -- book launches, movie premieres, etc. -- in the future, perhaps, this initial event will be the source of the majority of revenue, with residuals after that event wrapped up in the form of service fees for access to an unlimited library. After all, isn't going to an event like Woodstock worth far more to the average user than a complete audio/video record of the event after the fact? > > many of the current chipcards .... i believe are used in the magnetic > stripe "swipe" mode for authenticating specific transactions .... most of > the rest are used for password substitute at login type events. Many of the > chipcards following the straight payment card model result in end-user > having large number of different institutional tokens (similar to the > floppy copy protect paradigm). Following the institutional-specific and/or > application-specific token paradigm starts to become difficult to manage as > the number of tokens increase and the probability that multiple are > required simultaneously increases. > > That eventually leads into some sort of person-centric or device-centric > paradigm .... not so much an issue of the form factor (floppy, chipcard, > dongle, etc) .... but an issue of whether there are potentially large > numbers of institutional/application specific objects or small numbers of > person/device specific objects. > > So a simple issue is the trade-off between the institutional/application > specific objects .... which seem to have some amount of acceptance (payment > cards, chip cards, various "dongle" forms, etc) but in many instances can > scale poorly ... especially if multiple different such objects have to be > available concurrently .... vis-a-vis switching to a person/device specific > object paradigm (chipcard, dongles, etc, potentially exactly same > formfactor but different paradigm) > > > > ryan at havenco.com on 6/30/2002 12:39 pm wrote: > > > I think dongles (and non-copyable floppies) have been around since the > early > 80s at least...maybe the 70s. Tamper-resistant CPU modules have been > around > since the ATM network, I believe, in the form of PIN processors stored > inside safes) > > The fundamental difference between a "dongle" and a full "trusted module" > containing the critical application code is that with a dongle, you can > just patch the application to skip over the checks (although they can be > repeated, and relatively arcane). > > If the whole application, or at least the non-cloneable parts of the > application, exist in a sealed module, the rest of the application can't > be patched to just skip over this code. > > Another option for this is a client server or oracle model where the really > > sensitive pieces (say, a magic algorithm for finding oil from GIS data, > or a good natural language processor) are stored on vendor-controlled > hardware centrally located, with only the UI executing on the end user's > machine. > > What I'd really like is a design which accomplishes the "good" parts of > TCPA, > ensuring that when code claims to be executing in a certain form, it really > is, > and providing a way to guarantee this remotely -- without making it easy > to implement restrictions on content copying. It would be nice to have the > good parts of TCPA, and given the resistance to DRM, if security and TCPA > have their fates bound, they'll probably both die an extended and painful > death. > > I suppose the real difference between a crypto-specific module and a > general > purpose module is how much of the UI is within the trusted platform > envelope. > If the module is only used for handling cryptographic keys, as an addition > to > an insecure general purpose CPU, with no user I/O, it seems unlikely to be > useful for DRM. If the entire machine is inside the envelope, it seems > obviously useful for DRM, and DRM would likely be the dominant application. > If only a limited user IO is included in the envelope, sufficient for > user authentication and keying, and to allow the user to load > initially-trusted code onto the general purpose CPU, but where the user > can fully use whatever general purpose code on the general purpose CPU, > even uncertified code, with the certified module, it's not really useful > for DRM, but still useful for the non-DRM security applications which are > the alleged purpose behind TCPA. > > (given that text piracy doesn't seem to be a serious commercial concern, > simply keeping video and audio playback and network communications outside > the TCPA envelope entirely is good enough, in practice...this way, both > authentication and keying can be done in text mode, and document > distribution control, privacy of records, etc. can be accomplished, > provided > there is ALSO the ability to do arbitrary text processing and computing > outside the trusted envelope, .) > > If it's the user's own data being protected, you don't need to worry about > the user intentionally circumventing the protections. Any design which > removes control from the 'superuser' of the machine is fundamentally about > protecting someone other than the user. > > This, I think, is the difference between TCPA and smartcards. Notice > which one has in its short lifetime attracted far more enmity :) > > > Quoting lynn.wheeler at firstdata.com : > > > > > > I remember looking at possibility at adding tamper resisistent hardware > > chip to PCs back in 83 or 84 time frame (aka the TCPA idea for PCs is > going > > on at least 20 years old now). It was the first time I ran into > embedding > > chip in a metal case that would create electrical discharge frying the > chip > > if the container was breached. > > > > Remember when applications came with their own copy-protection floppy > > disks? .... it was possible to build up a library of such disks .... > > requiring all sorts of remove, search, insert ... when switching from one > > application to another. They eventually disappeared ... but imagine if > they > > had survived into the multitasking era .... when it would have been > > necessary to have multiple different copy protection floppy disks crammed > > into the same drive at the same time. The chip was suppose to provide an > > analog to the CPU serial number used for licensing software on mainframes > > .... dating at least from the original IBM 370s (store cpuid hardware > > instruction). > > > > Some of the higher-end applications still do that with some form of > dongle > > (originally in the serial port) that comes with the application .... it > > doesn't quite have the downside of trying to cram multiple floppies into > > the same drive concurrently; the serial port dongles allow for them to be > > inline cascaded ... and in theory still be able to use the serial port > for > > other use at the same time. > > > > i believe that there is some statistic some place about the UK and the US > > are really great .... that in those two countries the copyright piracy is > > estimated to only be 50 percent. > > -- > Ryan Lackey [RL7618 RL5931-RIPE] ryan at havenco.com > CTO and Co-founder, HavenCo Ltd. +44 7970 633 277 > the free world just milliseconds away http://www.havenco.com/ > OpenPGP 4096: B8B8 3D95 F940 9760 C64B DE90 07AD BE07 D2E0 301F > > > -- Ryan Lackey [RL7618 RL5931-RIPE] ryan at havenco.com CTO and Co-founder, HavenCo Ltd. +44 7970 633 277 the free world just milliseconds away http://www.havenco.com/ OpenPGP 4096: B8B8 3D95 F940 9760 C64B DE90 07AD BE07 D2E0 301F --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com From rah at shipwright.com Sun Jun 30 18:55:58 2002 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 21:55:58 -0400 Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: <3D1F8EE6.40209@algroup.co.uk> References: <20020630020807.A45745@tp.databus.com> <20020630141049.A54229@tp.databus.com> <3D1F8EE6.40209@algroup.co.uk> Message-ID: At 12:06 AM +0100 on 7/1/02, Ben Laurie wrote: > No, a pseudonym can be linked to stuff (such as reputation, > publications, money). An anonym cannot. More to the point, there is no such "thing" as an "anonym", by definition. There's no way to link the behavior of one event that an "anonym" causes to any other event that that "anonym" might, or might not, have caused. If the events are linkable to the same signing key, which is what we mean reputation in cypherspace, then you have a pseudonym. I do agree that a perfect pseudonym is functional anonymity, however, in the meatspace, is-a-person, biometric identity sense of "anonymity". Which points up the main flaw in book-entry content settlement/clearing schemes like the one that Microsoft/WAVE is trying to pull off. If were just possible to pay *cash* for *bits*, you don't care *who* bought your bits, and, frankly, it's not only cheaper, it is, as we will find out soon enough, impossible to do any other way at the anywhere near the actual cost of transporting bits across the net. I leave following that logical thread back to a recursive cash-settled auction market for content, and the resulting income increase to *creators* of content mostly at the expense of *distributors* of content :-), as an exercise for the reader... Like others, I'm practically praying that Microsoft actually tries to paint this Escher picture of a financial Russell's paradox. The longer that Microsoft, the content distributors, and, unfortunately, the financial community, though learning has to occur sometime, persist in making a "rights" "management" system which attempts to be both consistent and complete, the more money other people will make getting a mostly-anonymous cash-settled bits-on-the-wire content system up and running. The price of the financial cryptography engineering is falling through the floor as we speak. Sooner or later, it's just going to happen. Then things will get interesting. Cheers, RAH -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Sun Jun 30 19:17:38 2002 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 22:17:38 -0400 Subject: The Hot New Field of Cyberlaw Is Just Hokum, Skeptics Argue Message-ID: I think, frankly, that the only way to answer the arguments made below is with financial cryptography. Like I've said before, if it's encrypted, and only I (not Bill Gates and I :-)) have the key then it's my property. The same can be said about the abstractions of financial assets represented by bearer "certificates" created with financial cryptography protocols like blind signatures. Otherwise, yes, I do believe that "Cyber"-law is just meat-law by other means. One need only think about the Adult Action case, where an extradited defendant is now rotting in a Kentucky jail for the contents of his California server, or the American who foolishly went home to stand trial for his Antiguan net-gambling business to understand that. Until we have some kind of technological equivalent of the Treaty of Westphalia, sundering once and for all the power of nation-states on the internet in the same way that that treaty broke the power of religion in international relations, we will eventually end up in some kind of Heller/Randian legal singularity where everything, everywhere, will be illegal, all the time. :-). The solution to the legal paradox is not legal, it's physical: Write software, not legislation. Write code instead of Code. Cheers, RAH http://online.wsj.com/article_print/0,,SB1025481262421276800,00.html The Wall Street Journal July 1, 2002 BOOM TOWN By LEE GOMES The Hot New Field of Cyberlaw Is Just Hokum, Skeptics Argue Is there really a cyberspace full of "cybercitizens" who need only be accountable to their own "cyberlaws"? A loose-knit group of law professors is bucking one of the big fads in the legal field by calling that whole idea "cybersilly." Law involving the online world is hot right now. Law schools trying to stay current have courses in it, which tend to be popular with a generation of law students reared on Wired magazine and Napster. Experts in so-called cyberlaw typically have technology-friendly legal views, and are thus frequent guests at the tech world's many conferences. They're also quoted all the time in media accounts of online legal disputes. Cyberskeptic or buff? Write to Lee Gomes at lee.gomes at wsj.com1 There is, though, a much less well-known but equally determined group of legal experts -- let's call them the "cyberskeptics" -- who are deeply troubled by just about everything about this trend. The skeptics start by questioning the very existence of cyberspace, which they say is no more real than a "phone space" involving all the people on the telephone at a given time. They go on to argue that something happening online shouldn't be treated any differently by the law than if it occurred on Main Street. You can usually find the skeptics in law journals rather than at tech conferences. Orin S. Kerr, of George Washington University Law School, for example, is wary of courts looking at Internet legal issues from the perspective of users, who may indeed think of themselves as cavorting about in cyberspace. A more productive approach, he says, might be to look at what is happening in the real world, where one usually simply finds a group of computers connected to each other and passing along data. Timothy Wu, a professor at the University of Virginia School of Law, writes that there is no single Internet, but instead, many different Internet applications that all need to be discussed differently. Jack Goldsmith, of the University of Chicago law school, defends a decision two years ago by a French judge who said that Yahoo couldn't sell Nazi memorabilia in France, which bans the material. Netizens pounced on the ruling as an affront to their brave new digital world. But Prof. Goldsmith says that Yahoo, since it has a subsidiary in France, should no more be immune to French laws than General Motors is. More importantly, he says, the French judge went through with the ruling only after determining that it was feasible, through various screening technologies, for Yahoo to prevent its French visitors from seeing the ads but still display them to others. While the skeptics emphasize different points, they all have as a core principle a rejection of the notion of "Internet exceptionalism," or the idea that the Internet is a new, unique thing that requires its own special laws. "The steam engine ... probably transformed American law, but the 'law of the steam engine' never existed," writes Joseph H. Sommer, counsel at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, in a law review article called "Against Cyberlaw." He also fretted that the cyberbuffs are afflicted with "insufficient perspective, disdain for history, unnecessary futurology and technophilia." The skeptics have no particular beef with computer and Internet technology. Most, in fact, are avid users. They just think that it shouldn't be pandered to. And they certainly deride the ideas behind the "Declaration of Independence of Cyberspace," which is posted on many Web sites and poses a "hands off" challenge to government. The dispute between the buffs and the skeptics doesn't have the usual left-right overlay to it. The skeptics tend to be Republican but come from both sides of the spectrum. A better question, perhaps, involves the politics of the cyberspacians -- not their defenders in law schools as much as the cyberactivists themselves. Many observers assume them to be politically progressive, beyond their obvious libertarianism. But are they really? Prof. Wu thinks not, calling them deeply technocratic and elitist despite their populist rhetoric. And most of the activists continue to see the Internet as a utopian ideal -- despite the fact that many progressives are beginning to worry that the Web is really just a very efficient way for companies to move white-collar U.S. jobs overseas. Prof. Goldsmith says that most law professors are becoming increasingly wary of the legal claims being made for cyberspace. But what about his students? Well, he concedes, they're another matter. Many of them, with the passion of youth, are still enthralled with the whole idea of a separate universe, one they can call their own. -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From barney at tp.databus.com Sun Jun 30 20:30:30 2002 From: barney at tp.databus.com (Barney Wolff) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 23:30:30 -0400 Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: ; from rah@shipwright.com on Sun, Jun 30, 2002 at 09:55:58PM -0400 References: <20020630020807.A45745@tp.databus.com> <20020630141049.A54229@tp.databus.com> <3D1F8EE6.40209@algroup.co.uk> Message-ID: <20020630233030.A58352@tp.databus.com> anonym n : "Mr. and Mrs. John Smith" when signed in a motel register. On Sun, Jun 30, 2002 at 09:55:58PM -0400, R. A. Hettinga wrote: > > More to the point, there is no such "thing" as an "anonym", by definition. -- Barney Wolff I never met a computer I didn't like. From rah at shipwright.com Sun Jun 30 20:48:01 2002 From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 23:48:01 -0400 Subject: Ross's TCPA paper In-Reply-To: <20020630233030.A58352@tp.databus.com> References: <20020630020807.A45745@tp.databus.com> <20020630141049.A54229@tp.databus.com> <3D1F8EE6.40209@algroup.co.uk> <20020630233030.A58352@tp.databus.com> Message-ID: At 11:30 PM -0400 on 6/30/02, Barney Wolff wrote: > anonym n : "Mr. and Mrs. John Smith" when signed in a motel register. No. Pseudonym(s). Subclass "Alias". An anonym (literally, "no name", right?) is not signing the book at all, and, thus, as "nyms" go, can't exist except in your mind. Somewhere St. Anselm is smiling... I'd be tempted to say that an anonym is it's own antinym and thus can't exist, but that, as James Coburn said in a movie recently, would be just plain mean... :-). Cheers, RAH -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From ben at algroup.co.uk Sun Jun 30 16:06:14 2002 From: ben at algroup.co.uk (Ben Laurie) Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 00:06:14 +0100 Subject: Ross's TCPA paper References: <20020630020807.A45745@tp.databus.com> <20020630141049.A54229@tp.databus.com> Message-ID: <3D1F8EE6.40209@algroup.co.uk> Barney Wolff wrote: > A pseudonym that I can give up at will and that can never afterwards > be traced to me is equivalent to an anonym. No, a pseudonym can be linked to stuff (such as reputation, publications, money). An anonym cannot. Cheers, Ben. -- http://www.apache-ssl.org/ben.html http://www.thebunker.net/ "There is no limit to what a man can do or how far he can go if he doesn't mind who gets the credit." - Robert Woodruff From JeanineadviceRoland at principalmetals.com Sun Jun 30 10:49:06 2002 From: JeanineadviceRoland at principalmetals.com (Sheena Lovett) Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 01:49:06 +0800 Subject: business debt consolidation Message-ID: Its time to completely eradicate your debts! 占퐇iminate your cred占퐐card debts and ALL other unsecured debts http://cid-ade9b0136fbf64bf.spaces.live.com/ * NO more paymeents to creditors * YOUR long termm creditt will NOT be affectedd. * NO c占퐊frontation'ss http://cid-ade9b0136fbf64bf.spaces.live.com/ * 10K mi占퐄mum combined unsecuured debts requ占퐎edd for eligibilityy. * US res占폻ents only. From ryan at havenco.com Sun Jun 30 19:31:19 2002 From: ryan at havenco.com (Ryan Lackey) Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 02:31:19 +0000 Subject: maximize best case, worst case, or average case? (TCPA In-Reply-To: <4f956779a6099a62aab5329aa077ac95@xganon.com> References: <4f956779a6099a62aab5329aa077ac95@xganon.com> Message-ID: <20020701023119.GA29081@havenco.com> Quoting xganon : > > So DRM systems are evil? Why? What makes them evil? There is no > justification offered for this claim! Are we all supposed to accept it > as obvious? I consider DRM systems (even the not-secure, not-mandated versions) evil due to the high likelyhood they will be used as technical building blocks upon which to deploy mandated, draconian DRM systems. DRM systems inevitably slide toward being more mandated, and more draconian. DRM-capable TCPA-type systems are evil by the same argument, even if not used for DRM. The primary reason they are evil is not the stated goal of DRM systems (copy protection in various forms), but the ease with which they could be used to eliminate cypherpunk applications. > > How can any software which people adopt voluntarily be evil? If Alice > releases music with DRM restrictions, and Bob runs DRM compliant software > to play it, which of them is evil? Is it Alice, for releasing her music > with restrictions? Is it just because she encoded them in a file format, > or is it evil to release any creative product and ask people not to > copy it freely? Or is Bob evil, for voluntarily choosing to run DRM > compliant software in order to listen to Alice's music? Or perhaps the > software developer is the evil one, for giving people more options and > choices in the world? If DRM systems were truly general purpose themselves, capable of being used for good and bad purposes, I would agree they are not inherently evil. However, because they never do anything but remove power over bits from people who would otherwise have complete control over them, I can't think of any good they could possibly accomplish. Taken in the context where if a technical solution exists, lawmakers will mandate it even if it isn't necessary, sometimes technologies which are not innately evil are so dangerous as to be necessarily rejected to avoid a legislative consequence. If, for instance, a perfect control chip were possible so that firearms could never be used to kill an employee of the US Government, even if this technology were optional, I would consider it evil, as it both prevents a possibly-acceptable use of the technology, and removes power from whoever controls the technology at the time. I wouldn't consider an electronic payment system which prevents counterfeiting of currency to be "evil" in the same way as a DRM system is, because the electronic payment system technology is not trivially transformed into a gatekeeper on the use of secure private computation. > Are we to read this as an endorsement of the "wanting-widespread-piracy > standpoint"? Is the implicit assumption here that widespread piracy > is GOOD??? Well, that would certainly explain why DRM is evil in > Ryan's eyes. Copyright is legal enforcement of restrictions on the possessor of bits. As such, I consider it morally bad. Additionally, it has outlived its practical utility (which I agree it had at one point). I support technologies which enable end-users to defeat restrictions placed on them by content creators, governments, or others. Defeating legislative solutions to problems also serves the useful social purpose of reducing confidence in people's minds that the government can control anything at all. Defeating purely technical restrictions on how you can use something is hacking at its most pure form. This is not really on the axis of good vs. evil; it is simply an example of man's desire to control the world around him. Admittedly, defeating fundamental physical limitations on what something can do is a lot more rewarding than defeating restrictions artificially imposed by another person, but it's still a worthwhile challenge. > If so, in Ryan's ideal world, every creative artist has no choice but > to do nothing, or release their works with permission that anyone can > copy them for free. This is not just an unfortunate consequence of > technological reality, in this view. It is an outcome to be desired and > even fought for, to the extent that voluntary technologies which would > give people other options must be opposed from the beginning. I think those who create should be free to use technical, social, or other non-coercive means to accomplish their goals. However, creating technologies which can be easily legislatively mandated, or relying on legislative solutions to business problems, is wrong. While I'd certainly prefer a world where creation of worthwhile content is rewarded and encouraged, I would far prefer if every artist starved rather than a world where general purpose computing is restricted at all. The "military" applications of computing are far more important than art or culture. -- Ryan Lackey [RL7618 RL5931-RIPE] ryan at havenco.com CTO and Co-founder, HavenCo Ltd. +44 7970 633 277 the free world just milliseconds away http://www.havenco.com/ OpenPGP 4096: B8B8 3D95 F940 9760 C64B DE90 07AD BE07 D2E0 301F