When the FBI Guys Come Knocking...

[Tim May]

On Wednesday, September 26, 2001, at 08:03 AM, David Honig wrote:

> I think its not trespass until you've advised them to leave, if they
> approach a door.  Don't know about signage by your driveway; locally
> you need a 3 signs per mile (IIRC) on your property to keep people
> away.  Not sure about how long you can linger at a closed door.
> Does lingering become harassment?

I agree that it is not trespass if the driveway is 
ungated/unlocked...one is inviting others to come and knock on the door, 
deliver packages, etc. However, as you said, if they have been told to 
leave then they are trespassing if they remain.

> Aside, on property rights: I learned that in LA county  the
> county Vector Control (ie, mosquito) people can come onto your property
> to sample standing water, if they suspect it; and even add fish to your
> standing water (eg birdbath) pools.

I've had the fire department wandering through my back yard. I saw a guy 
in a blue uniform walking around my back yard, so I yelled "Can I help 
you?" He told me he was doing a routine inspection of brush near my 
property.

This reminded me I needed to get a gate installed in an arched door that 
is the only access to my back yard. ObProcrastination: I still haven't 
done this, as I want a custom grillwork gate made by a welder/ironworker.

BTW, my understanding of the law is that the police/sheriff/FBI cannot 
(repeat: cannot) use these authorized administrative accesses (mosquito 
control, fire department, Child Protective Services, even Immigration) 
as "cover" for their own bypassing-the-Fourth inspections.

>> (If I see someone skulking around on my property, I would be morally
>> justified in shooting them, of course. Demanding that they leave, 
>> from a
>> window, and threatening to shoot is probably not actionable even in
>> today's weird legal climate. Actually shooting them, while morally
>> justified, is proably not wise.)
>
> You could peer from a window with a rifle pointing at the sky, but
> I'd be careful about pointing it towards even uninvited visitors.
>
> This thread is an advertisement for big noisy dogs, too.


The neighbor closer to the main road than I am has just such a big, 
noisy dog. "Shadow" is part-wolf, and is mean, vicious, and loud. 
However, he is so uncontrollable that the owner keeps him locked up in 
his back yard, where he runs from one side to another and barks. Twice 
in my six years here the dog has "gotten out," approaching me menacingly 
and causing me to back up slowly and look around for me the nearest 
heavy stick to defend myself with. (My neighbor even said, "If Shadow 
ever gets out and tries to attack you, just shoot him." I think the 
owner and his two young boys would really rather have a more normal dog 
they could take with them on walks, let inside the house, and treat as a 
pet.)

The point being, dogs are usually either so vicious they are chained  or 
locked-up, or are docile enough to just wag their tails when the nice 
men in the FBI suits approach.

Anyway, my cats would probably not like a dog around. Nor would I. (Dogs 
are fine, but they take a lot of care and they interfere with trips away 
from home.)

As for holding a rifle, the law is about "brandishing." It's legal to 
have a rifle or handgun on one's person, but not to point it at a person 
or threaten to. Chief Justice Warren Burger used to answer the door at 
his Washington-area house with a handgun in his hand. (I lived in the 
area at the time, but I don't remember if he lived in Viriginia, where 
handguns are legal, or in D.C., where they are not, or in Maryland, with 
various fascist gun laws. He no doubt could have gotten one of the 
various exemptions, as he was not one of the proles.)

I've answered my door a couple of times with a pistol in a waist 
(W.A.S.T.E.?) holster. Some startled looks, but no one has called 911 on 
me. Or at least no cops have arrived to question me about wearing a 
handgun.

(For the curious, it is not a violation of the carry laws to have a 
handgun on one's person in one's own property, even, interestingly, a 
tent. Unless barred by other laws (National Parks, etc.).

--Tim May