On Internet and social responsibility

[Rthugo1 at aol.com]

In a message dated 9/15/01 1:10:11 AM Central Daylight Time, 
avg at exigengroup.com writes:

<< Subj:     Re: On Internet and social responsibility
 Date:  9/15/01 1:10:11 AM Central Daylight Time
 From:  avg at exigengroup.com (Vadim Antonov)
 Sender:    owner-nanog at merit.edu
 To:    baptista at pccf.net
 CC:    nanog at merit.edu, cypherpunks at lne.com
 
 Oh yeah, Einstein.......Its the fault of Bush and those EEEEVVVVVVIIIILLLL 
Republicans, once again!!
Get a grip, dude........this is no time for political rhetoric either!
As far as the interpretation of the First Amendment, I wouldn't expect a 
socialist to understand the concept of FREEDOM!
Scary thought, huh Stalin!
Rob Hugo
 
 
 Joe --
 
 I'm not calling in question their right to publish; what i'm saying that
 this crap was going on for years, and nobody cared.
 
 BTW, if you look at the First Ammendment protections closer, they are not
 guaranteeing absolute right of free speech.  Learn the American law before
 you invoke it to defend your point of view.
 
 I'm tired of absolutists who cannot see that there's no such thing as
 absolute good or absolute evil.  Speech can be very dangerous.  This is
 a conflict of ideologies, not nations or religions.  What do you think is
 ideology - if not speech?  How do you suppress ideology if you let it
 spread unhampered?  
 
 Violence is bad? Vote for dissolution of police, if you _really_ mean
 that. But don't take the "my hands is clean" high moral ground.  It is
 _your_ guilt, too, for being lazy to learn what is going on, and failing
 to elect a goverment with a clue, not the bumbling idiot with a Texan
 accent and vocabulary of a fifteen-years-old.
 
 That site was spreading lies for a long time and is well-known in Russia
 as an example of American hypocrisy.  I was reminded of it when i looked
 at today's very sarcastic piece by one poplular TV commentator (Mike
 Solovyev, the anchor of "Odnako" ("But..") prime-time daily show watched
 by a hundred million people).
 
 [Transcript follows]
    ...Besides, Shamil Basaev is not only a cannibal, but also a very
    keen politologist making in his cave precise analysis of political
    situation.
 
    <video of Shamil Basaev leaving in a bus with hostages>
 
    The web-site Kavkaz.org published a special message from Shamil
    Basaev regarding the air attacks on Washington and New-York. Mr.
    Basaev says that "Russia is behind this terrorist attack. The goal
    of this attack is to undermine might of USA, discredit the idea of
    the national anti-missile defense initiative, and cause USA to
    lose its status of super-power."
 
    Chechen politologists are wishing to provoke clash of America and
    Russia: just for a second imagine that everyone believed this
    Chechen propaganda about "hand of Moscow" - what should be the
    answer from the other side of the ocean?  You know.
 
        [allusion to the nuclear war, for those unfamiliar with
         Soviet idiomas -- avg].
 
    After what happened, the Western authorities should've knocked
    that site down, it is physically located in the America, and
    change their view of Chechen propaganda in general.  Because
    otherwise it seems that bin Laden is a cannibal, with any means
    good to get him down, but his Chechen comrades-in-arms still need
    delicacy and respect.  This is the message we get by watching this
    site staying up after September 11th.
 
    ...
 
    This Wednesday I expressed concern that after the initial shock
    they'll talk, talk, and forget the whole thing - you know, deeds
    are forgettable, body's fattening.  But now it looks like
    everything is funnier.  To forget something you need to learn
    something first. Judging by dithering of various officials they
    didn't learn anything, so they have nothing to forget.
 [end of transcript]
 
 Here's how America looks from outside.  A bunch of incompetents and
 hypocrites.
 
 And i am tired of telling my Russian correspondents to stuff their "they
 asked for it" postures you know where.  Because i know that Americans are
 not really hypocritic, just terribly ignorant.
 
 --vadim
 
 
 On Fri, 14 Sep 2001 baptista at pccf.net wrote:
 
 > 
 > Vadim - I think in american we call it free speech.  The content of the
 > message is not the issue - it is the right to publish it and one's
 > opinion which is the issue here guranteed by the U.S. constitution.
 > 
 > regards
 > joe
 > 
 > On Fri, 14 Sep 2001, Vadim Antonov wrote:
 > 
 > > 
 > > 
 > > Found on a website hosted in US by a US service provider:
 > > 
 > > > Manpower resources of
 > > > Muslims and powerful ideological stimulus of resistance, the
 > > > control above the basic power resources of the world, the
 > > > geographical position and an area of movement, finally will
 > > > destroy USA. War will come in the house of each American.
 > >   ******************************************************** 
 > > 
 > > > And it already will be the collapse of that America, which we
 > > > know and which is realized by Americans. The first disturbing
 > > > symptoms of arising enmity and split of America already is
 > > > available. 
 > > 
 > > This is from the inverview with the spokesman of well-known terrorist
 > > Shamil Basaev, known for personally taking hostage hundreds of patients 
in
 > > a hospital, among other things (the spokesman is Movladi Udugov, the guy
 > > who threatened to drop an airplane on Kremlin).
 > > 
 > > http://www.kavkaz.org/english/news/2001/09/14/news4.htm
 > > 
 > > Hosted by XO Communications - do not bother them, i already alerted their
 > > staff.
 > > 
 > > Guys, why should a North American provider give a place for this
 > > propaganda?  Call FBI, have them trace the connections of whoever pays 
for
 > > that site.
 > > 
 > > [If you decide to read the entire article - the "so-called peacemaker"
 > > Boris Nemtsov mentioned there is a prominent pro-Western politican in
 > > Russia, and (used to be, changed his mind after WTC attack) a leading
 > > proponent of negotiations with Chechen militants.  A shining illustration
 > > of what you get for trying to negotiate with terrorists.]
 > > 
 > > Please, if you host websites, take a closer look at what you are hosting;
 > > you may help to find leads for the investigation.
 > > 
 > > --vadim
 > > 
 > 
 > -- 
 > The dot.GOD Registry, Limited
 > 
 > http://www.dot-god.com/