where do we go from here (and where should we have gone)

[Ben Weber]

Are you serious?  Are you an American?  Your views on the nations foreign
policy make no sense for those logical Americans who know the good in what
this nation does and stands for.

>  No. not "Pay off", just leave the fuck alone.  We had this one coming.
In
>  fact, we had this coming _in spades_, and for a _very_ long time.  What
>  goeas around comes around, ya?  We kill _millions_  of innocent civilians
>  unjustifiably, and then have the GALL to complain when our own tactics
are
>  used against us???

'Complain'?  "We kill millions of innocent civilians unjustifiably"?  Give
me a break, Americans are not the DEVIL, this sounds like something the only
the devil himself would do.  To kill millions of innocent civilians; this is
not the American Foreign Policy, never was and never will be.  The real
American Foreign Policy, not the garbage propaganda you've obviously been
reading:

        Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were
> > >>> lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in
> > >>> billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of

> > >>> these countries is today paying even the interest on its
> > >>> remaining debts to the United States.
> > >>>
> > >>> When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956,
> > >>> it was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to
> > >>> be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I

> > >>> saw it.
> > >>>
> > >>> When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the
> > >>> United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American
> > >>> communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped.
> > >>>
> > >>> The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped
> > >>> billions of dollars! into discouraged countries. Now newspapers
> > >>> in those countries are writing about the decadent, warmongering
> > >>> Americans.     - Canadian Newspaper (unbiased source)

Your words have sickened me.  Even if atrocities like you say did take
place, I'm sure they were done for a good reason; your still here aren't
you?  Living on the freest soil on earth.  I think a thank you is in order,
not a diatribe loathing the very government and people that gave you that
ugly soap box your standing on.



Ben Weber
Senior Recruitment Consultant
Information Security Practice
Greythorn Inc
425 635 0300
ben.weber at greythorninc.com
www.greythorn.com

  -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---

This e-mail may contain privileged and/or confidential information and is
for the intended recipients only.  In the event that you receive this e-mail
in error you should delete it from all locations on your computer/network
and contact Greythorn immediately on + 1 425 635 0300.  As e-mail is an
electronic form of communication the data may have been subject to
corruption or unauthorized use and as such any views or opinions contained
in this e-mail are not necessarily the views of Greythorn Inc and the
company cannot be held responsible for any misuse.



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-cypherpunks at toad.com [mailto:owner-cypherpunks at toad.com]On
Behalf Of measl at mfn.org
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 2:46 AM
To: attila!
Cc: cypherpunks at toad.com
Subject: Re: where do we go from here (and where should we have gone)



On Thu, 13 Sep 2001, attila! wrote:

>     The time for a massive one-shot 'retaliation' has passed
>     --it should have been done within the hour.

Change "the hour" to "an hour or two", and I would agree with
this.  However, we have an incredible bloatocracy, and about the only
thing that can be coordinated within an hour or two nowadays is a blowjob
from the intern...

>     Terrorists are a special case. Bin Laden is following
>     the playbook of the old Chinese master, Sun Tzu: kill
>     one man and you terrify 10,000. Terrorists can only be
>     eliminated by turning the people against them with pain
>     and suffering --eg: 18 million Iraqis all do not wish to
>     be martyrs when the chips are down. If we had taken out
>     Iraq and Afghanistan, we should have smiled and said:
>     "Next?"

And here is where you completely part with reality, and start
regurgitating the carefully crafted bullshit you have been fed by this
bloatocracy.  The fact is, we have already killed many more than the 18
million you cite, and *that* is one of the many reasons we are so loathed,
both externally, and internally.

>     Today's Federalist article was the strongest (and
>     most rational) I have seen --their bottom line is part
>     of what I demanded yesterday: Afghanistan becomes molten
>     silicon.

Yup, sure *sounds* rational alright  like a guy on Ketamine.

>     What do we do now? Probably slide down the slope of the
>     talking heads as the Left criticizes Bush's lack of
>     decisive leadership (and U.S. intelligence failure) and
>     permits the UN to convene to condemn the terrorism, but
>     even more strongly condemn U.S. foreign policy for
>     creating the world problems which brought forth the
>     terrorist response --in other words, the U.S. must pay
>     off the radical Islamists.

No. not "Pay off", just leave the fuck alone.  We had this one coming.  In
fact, we had this coming _in spades_, and for a _very_ long time.  What
goeas around comes around, ya?  We kill _millions_  of innocent civilians
unjustifiably, and then have the GALL to complain when our own tactics are
used against us???

>     But even more pernicious, few Americans will trust the
>     government to protect them or represent them in the world.

You mean there were such fools *before* this happened???

>     Sorry, George, I thought you were more of a man.

Bzzzt.

--
Yours,
J.A. Terranson
sysadmin at mfn.org

If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they
should give serious consideration towards setting a better example:
Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of
unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in
the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and
elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire
populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate...
This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States
as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers,
associates, or others.  Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of
those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the
first place...
--------------------------------------------------------------------