[Re: If law is based on precedence]

[Sunder]

Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, Sunder wrote:
> 
> > Clue: it's off topic.  Sigh, another Perrygram I've had to send...
> 
> No it isn't. One of the topics of this list is civil liberties.

Show me where it says that in the list charter.

http://www.csua.berkeley.edu/cypherpunks/mailing_list/

Sure says nothing about civil liberties.

Hell, I'll save your lazy ass the trouble: ( *** emphasis mine):

<SNIP>

About cypherpunks

The cypherpunks list is not designed for beginners, although they are welcome.
If you are totally new to crypto, please get and read the crypto FAQ referenced
below. This document is a good introduction, although not short. Crypto is a
subtle field and a good understanding will not come without some study. Please,
as a courtesy to all, do some reading to make sure that your question is not
already frequently asked. 
There are other forums to use on the subject of cryptography. The Usenet group
sci.crypt deals with technical cryptography; cypherpunks deals with technical
details but slants the discussion toward their social implications. The Usenet
group talk.politics.crypto, as is says, is for political theorizing, and
cypherpunks gets its share of that, **** but cypherpunks is all pro-crypto
****; the debates on this list are about how to best get crypto out there. The
Usenet group alt.security.pgp is a pgp-specific group, and questions about pgp
as such are likely better asked there than here. Ditto for alt.security.ripem. 

<SNIP>

Cypherpunks assume privacy is a good thing and wish there were more of it.
Cypherpunks acknowledge that those who want privacy must create it for
themselves and not expect governments, corporations, or other large, faceless
organizations to grant them privacy out of beneficence. Cypherpunks know that
people have been creating their own privacy for centuries with whispers,
envelopes, closed doors, and couriers. Cypherpunks do not seek to prevent other
people from speaking about their experiences or their opinions. 

The most important means to the defense of privacy is encryption. To encrypt is
to indicate the desire for privacy. But to encrypt with weak cryptography is to
indicate not too much desire for privacy. Cypherpunks hope that all people
desiring privacy will learn how best to defend it. 

Cypherpunks are therefore devoted to cryptography. Cypherpunks wish to learn
about it, to teach it, to implement it, and to make more of it. Cypherpunks
know that cryptographic protocols make social structures. Cypherpunks know how
to attack a system and how to defend it. Cypherpunks know just how hard it is
to make good cryptosystems. 

Cypherpunks love to practice. They love to play with public key cryptography.
They love to play with anonymous and pseudonymous mail forwarding and delivery.
They love to play with DC-nets. They love to play with secure communications of
all kinds. 

Cypherpunks write code. They know that someone has to write code to defend
privacy, and since it's their privacy, they're going to write it. Cypherpunks
publish their code so that their fellow cypherpunks may practice and play with
it. Cypherpunks realize that security is not built in a day and are patient
with incremental progress. 

Cypherpunks don't care if you don't like the software they write. Cypherpunks
know that software can't be destroyed. Cypherpunks know that a widely dispersed
system can't be shut down. 

Cypherpunks will make the networks safe for privacy. 

<SNIP>


Again, this isn't lawyerpunks.

-- 
----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos---------------------------
 + ^ + :Surveillance cameras|Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\
  \|/  :aren't security.  A |share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\
<--*-->:camera won't stop a |monitor, or under your keyboard, you   \/|\/
  /|\  :masked killer, but  |don't email them, or put them on a web  \|/
 + v + :will violate privacy|site, and you must change them very often.
--------_sunder_ at _sunder_._net_------- http://www.sunder.net ------------