ORBS sucked into a black hole!

[measl at mfn.org]

On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, Declan McCullagh wrote:

> ORBS/MAPS/etc. "participate" by connecting to and reviewing sites,
> much like I go out to and watch movies to review.

Not always.  If you refused to have your site "reviewed", then they would
literally make one up.
 
> As usual, Choate fails to grasp the point. I am not saying anyone
> has a duty to "help them." 

Yes, you are stating that implicitly.

> In fact, as I said in an earlier post, I'm not sure I even agree with
> what they're doing. But I do believe they have a right to publish
> their reviews of mail relays, just as I have the right to publish
> movie reviews -- even if you disagree with what I say in them.

I agree with this ONLY as far as they have actually had an encounter to
review.  To "review" my site as a series of open relays, as retailiation
for my refusing to let this asshole connect to my site, is bullshit.

And it remains bullshit whether or not you try to muddy the waters with
completely off topic references to Choate.

> To tell them not to speak their mind about you is censorship no less 
> than if you attempt to force me not to speak my mind about that
> rather awful Operation: Swordfish movie.

And to allow them to MAKE UP what they say is pure libel.

Good riddance to bad trash.  Now that ORBS is dead, when are you going to
follow their fine example Declan?

> -Declan
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jun 12, 2001 at 12:10:40AM -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
> > On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, Declan McCullagh wrote:
> > 
> > > The only black hole in this conversation are the Choatian posts.
> > > 
> > > ORBS/RBL/etc. in principle are making statements about what they
> > > believe about other people. This is similar to movie or book reviewing.
> > > People may read my review and stay away from a movie/book, just as they
> > > read an ORBS/RBL/MAPS "review" and stay away from certain addresses.
> > 
> > Malarky, they actively(!) participate.
> > 
> > What ORBS and their ilk do is collect scans of IP's across the Internet,
> > some do it directly, some do it through independent 3rd parties, and
> > direct complaints. The only way ORBS will remove you from the database is
> > if you allow(!) them to re-scan your MTA and verify to their satisfaction
> > you are not in any way running an Open Relay. They then make this database
> > (usually for some sort of fee) available to other groups who then actively
> > filter submissions to their sites. In other words if I have a friend who I
> > want to exchange private mail with, ORBS's uses their trumped excuse for
> > justification to inject their belief system into that. Truly heinous.
> > 
> > Since when did I have any sort of obligation to help them in their
> > particular crusade? My duties as a citizen and human being are not to
> > interfere. I'm not saying 'Stop', I'm only saying 'Let me off'.
> > 
> > There is no technical or legal standard to back their actions. There is no
> > 'authority' for them to decide who may configure their software how (and
> > the fact that they tell a private citizen is particularly irksome, more
> > angels among men I guess).
> > 
> > Just another fascist bastard.
> > 
> > Freedom for me, but not for thee...
> > 
> > 
> >  --
> >     ____________________________________________________________________
> > 
> >               "...where annual election ends, tyranny begins;"
> > 
> >                                Thomas Jefferson & Samuel Adams
> > 
> >        The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
> >        Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage at ssz.com
> >        www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
> >                            -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
> >     --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 

-- 
Yours, 
J.A. Terranson
sysadmin at mfn.org

If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they
should give serious consideration towards setting a better example:
Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of
unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in
the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and 
elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire
populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate...
This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States
as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers,
associates, or others.  Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of
those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the
first place...
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