Spoilation, escrows, courts, pigs.

[Tim May]

At 12:22 PM -0700 7/31/01, Black Unicorn wrote:

>Not being intimately familiar with the spec of freenet I can't really comment
>on that aspect or what a court will consider "impossible."  What will not
>amuse a court is the appearance of an ex ante concealment or disclosure in
>anticipation of court action.  If it looks like you knew it was going to be a
>court issue and you put it on freenet for that purpose, you're in trouble.

I think the cops will _someday_ come to rip my place apart. So?

Show me exactly which law I am breaking by placing some of my 
documents or files in a place even I cannot "turn over all copies 
from."

I have never heard of such a law.

You talk a lot about "courts not being amused" but I can find no 
evidence that such laws exist. Nor can I find any case where a Mafia 
don was prosecuted for "spoliating" a future prosecution by 
whispering.

Do you have such examples? And an appeals court assessment of the examples?

>Not only that but if you encrypt the stuff and it doesn't appear to be
>recoverable it almost sounds tantamount to destruction of evidence or
>spoliation (much more serious).

Cites?

Remember, the hypo involves placing material in irrecoverable forms 
prior to any actual court case.

  ("The intentional destruction of evidence...
>The destruction, or the significant and meaningful alteration of a document or
>instrument...")  I've never seen a case play out like that but I would
>certainly make the argument as a prosecutor.  Encrypting the stuff sure
>_looks_ like spoliation, particularly if it seemed likely that the evidence
>would be the subject of a judicial action.  "Knew or should have known" will
>likely be the standard with respect to the stuff being the subject of judicial
>action and they can use actions to demonstrate intent.

And I think you're way off-base. "Known or should have known" that I, 
for example, will eventually be raided by the TP means that it is a 
crime for me to place files beyond the reach of those same TP?

I know you believe yourself to be a Real Lawyer. I cheerfully admit that IANAL.

But I say you are full of it.


--Tim May

-- 
Timothy C. May         tcmay at got.net        Corralitos, California
Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon
Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go
Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns