A question of self-defence - Fire extinguishers & self defence

[Jon Beets]

Yes I saw that pic too... Again we can't assume anything other than what we
see in the pics.... But even below head level it can be thrown fairly hard
like a medicine ball....  Or it could have been lifted over his head after
the picture was taken... Or someone could even argue they thought it might
be rigged explode... Etc... I still stand by my belief that the Police felt
threatened and were justified.....  Again basing all this on the little info
we all have....

Jon Beets
Pacer Communications

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Woods" <andrew at pokerspot.com>
To: "Jon Beets" <Jon.Beets at pacer.com>
Cc: <cypherpunks at lne.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 3:14 AM
Subject: Re: A question of self-defence - Fire extinguishers & self defence


> If you look at the Reuters image of Carlo holding the fire extinguisher,
> he's holding it below head-level. In my opinion, that leaves three
options:
> Carlo was going to chuck the extinguisher underhand (and sideways to the
> vehicle, so it would've bounced off) at a low velocity, or Carlo was
> holding the fire extinguisher out in front of him as DEFENSE, or he was
> merely holding a fire extinguisher. It's not clear how much time elapsed
> between the picture of Carlo alive, and the next image, which is him lying
> on the ground with his brains all over the ground. However, the gun is can
> be seen and it's pointed at his head, so I assume it wasn't very long.
> There's an image of Carlo under the land rover, with the cop who shot him
> covering or wiping his face. Neither man in the jeep were wearing gas
masks
> with face shields, but every other carabinieri member seen in the series
is
> wearing them.
> The other thing that may not have been mentioned is that there were
> Carabinieri within 30 feet of the land rover, and that Carlo was in the
> Green Zone, supposedly the safe area for protests. There are pictures of
> about 10 fellow members of law enforcement a short distance away,
including
> one with both hands on his forehead area. He appears anguished.
> There's an image of Carlo under the land rover, with the cop who shot him
> covering or wiping his face.
> there's a PDF on indymedia.org with the pictures i'm talking about at
> http://italia.indymedia.org/local/webcast/uploads/carlo-photofile.pdf.
Most
> of this analysis is paraphrased from the pdf, but it seems reasonable.
> this may be a repeat of the powerpoint presentation post, but it's more
> cross-platform.
>
> At 05:35 PM Monday 07/23/2001, you wrote:
> >Uhhh yes it will go through the safety glass.. Look at the pics.. One
person
> >had already put piece of lumber through it.. That was about a 15lb
> >extinguisher... From what I can tell from the photos the protester DID
> >intend harm to the police. Of course none of us were there so its really
> >hard to know the truth..
> >
> >Jon Beets
> >Pacer Communications
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Jim Choate" <ravage at ssz.com>
> >To: <cypherpunks at einstein.ssz.com>
> >Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 6:18 PM
> >Subject: A question of self-defence - Fire extinguishers & self defence
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Does throwing a fire extenguisher at a auto window constitution
probable
> > > cause for lethal force in self-defence?
> > >
> > > No. Because the fire extenguisher won't go through the safety glass.
> > >
> > >
> > >  --
> > >
____________________________________________________________________
> > >
> > >                 Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night:
> > >                 God said, "Let Tesla be", and all was light.
> > >
> > >                                           B.A. Behrend
> > >
> > >        The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
> > >        Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage at ssz.com
> > >        www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
> > >                            -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
> >
  --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> ---------------------
> Andrew Woods
> Pokerspot.com Customer Support