[Ray Dillinger]

On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, Petro wrote:

>At 11:30 PM -0700 7/22/01, Ray Dillinger wrote:
>>On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Sandy Sandfort wrote:


>	The pressures of commercial advertising--in the sense of mass media--have been with us for as long as there has been mass media. 
>
>	You either deal with it as an adult, or you deal with it as a child. To complain that people are making you want something and they should stop is definitely in the realm of the latter. 
>

I was never really socialized enough for it to work all that well.
But I had to just stop listening, because it made me angry day after 
day.


>	I say this as someone who has a bit more credit card debt than he really should, so I understand the consumeristic drive, but it's really all about self-disipline, now isn't it? 
>

Self-discipline in an arms race with techniques designed to suppress 
or defeat it, yes.  And that's only on the personal level.  On the 
personal level, I'm now pretty insulated from most marketing campaigns, 
so that's not all that relevant to me.  However, the societal effects 
are nasty, because the *widespread* suppression of self-discipline 
leads to a lot of stupid, wasteful, or harmful effects that are very 
widespread, and which I can't get away from. 

Personally, I am debt-free, and frankly loving it.  It is hard to 
understand how much debt sucks until you get the opportunity to 
live without it.  I highly recommend it.

>>gets a little stifling when people can't or don't control how much 
>>pressure (as advertising etc) they are exposed to.
>
>	You left out one word in there. 
>
>	Won't. 

Bingo.  Won't.  And are intentionally maintained in a condition 
where they won't, at least until they break away from the herd 
and strike out in their own direction.  

>>Let's put it this way; why would a rational person or even a sane 
>>person purchase a furby?  It is useless; it is annoying; its expected 
>
>	Mostly to stop their children from wailing about wanting one. 
>
>	Children are, almost by definition, not sane people. 

Bingo.  Family pressure, brought about by marketing.  That's 
part of the whole crazy-making cycle.

'Mommy's not home for dinner, sweety, because she's working 
overtime to buy you a furby.... she's on the fucking treadmill, 
and you helped put her there.  Want some pie?'

>>But the science of marketing is increasingly about arresting the 
>>processes of rational thought, and even the processes of mental 
>>health, in order to induce people to buy crap which they don't 
>>need, won't or can't use, or can't get any real satisfaction from.  
>
>
>	Advertising only works on adults (or rather rational people) when it shows them something they already want. 
>

You are correct; and therefore, it is in the best interests of 
marketers to make sure that everything is as banal and bland as 
possible, and that all the ideas are prepackaged - specifically 
in order to prevent people from growing up emotionally, or becoming 
rational.  They're doing an increasingly effective job of it and 
whether we're directly included/affected ourselves or not, whether 
we are consumerist zombies or critical-thinking adults, we have 
to live in the sick society that results from their handiwork.

>	Marketing has not gotten anywhere near that personal. 

Yes, it has.

>	I don't receive car commercials with a picture of a buxom oriental woman wearing red PVC undergarments, while my neighbor get his with a picture of one of maplethorpe's models. Now, granted part of this is because it's not commercial feasible, and I doubt it ever will be. 

Trust me on this; it will be. Men known to be gay are already getting 
car adverts featuring leather-clad men instead of the customary bikini 
babes, and offered accessories like rainbow stickers direct from the 
dealers.  From here out, it's only a matter of refinement.  Ultimately, 
if the car dealers find out enough, the question is only about whether 
the marginal sales to people who like busty oriental babes in red PVC 
underwear will pay for the photo shoot, ad composition, and printing 
costs.  Digital imaging and "poser" software drives down the cost of 
the first, Expert Systems are driving down the cost of the second, and 
printing costs are already pretty damn minor. 

>	No, the most that "modern advertising science" has been able to do is to direct clients NOT to advertise in places where they won't get a ROI, in favor of places that WILL. 
>

With the result that practically *every* ad you see causes pressure, 
because all the ones that wouldn't get an ROI (which wouldn't cause 
pressure) are elsewhere.  The total pressure on each and every 
consumer has dramatically increased.

				Bear