[Petro]

At 1:18 PM -0700 7/22/01, Sandy Sandfort wrote:
>Ray Dillinger wrote:
>
>> This is just a guess, but what *I*
>> think motivates these people is
>> frustration and disenfranchisement.
>> It's not that any substantial group
>> of them want any particular thing,
>> it's just that the whole bunch of
>> them feel that they don't have a
>> voice in what's happening any more.
>> The "globalization" people are
>> consulting *each other* instead of
>> the people affected by the laws to
>> figure out what laws they should
>> pass, and the people are pissed off
>> because they don't feel that they
>> have any input into the process.
>
>There are several possible answers to what you have written.  First, at
>least theoretically, your "'globalization' people" were elected to represent
>the people.  In a democratic system, the people's "input" into the process
>is the ballot box choice of their representatives.

	Theoretically my ass.

	I'd bet my wife's next paycheck that at least 90% of those bastards are appointed. 

>That's theory.  Personally, I think the problem is the idea that we need
>laws (i.e., the threat of violence) to address the problems in question.

	The problem is that we've got a bunch of pansy ass fascists running this country, and they are willing to hand large parts of our sovereignty over to a committee made up mostly of other fascists and socialists.

	While I disagree with (what little) philosophy is behind these protestors, I have to agree that what is going on behind those doors is *not* in the best interests of America, nor IMO in the best interest of the "poorer" nations in this world. 

>> Capitalism from the worker's
>> perspective means working longer
>> hours, getting paid more, and
>> winding up under family pressure
>> (because your family is an
>> intensely and effectively
>> targeted market) to spend it all
>> on stupid stuff.  Furbys, TV's,
>> and barbie dolls, for god's sake.
>> So at the end of the day they
>> have more stupid crap but they're
>> poorer and more tired and have
>> less time to spend with their
>> family - and after a while they
>> get frustrated.
>
>I'm sorry, the Furby definition of capitalism isn't very cogent or helpful.
>
>> But none, or few, of them see it
>> in exactly those terms. They're
>> just angry and frustrated and they
>> don't really know why.
>
>Why don't they know why?  Can't they read?  I have so sympathy for militant
>ignorance when the world is awash in information about how things work.

	The problem is that *most* of the information is wrong, and the stuff that is accurate says basically "Unless you are *really* lucky, *really* smart, or born rich, you are never going to be in the top 5%, and most likely you don't deserve to be there". This really annoys people who have been raised to think that they are brilliant, and really don't want to settle for working 40+ hours a week, forcing themselves to *not* buy stoopid trendy shit so as to save for their retirement, and then retire when they are too old to really enjoy it. 

	They don't like that. They want to work a "fulfilling" job, make 100k a year, and have the government pay for their retirement when they don't feel like working any more. 

	Life ain't like that. 

	As much as I hate "bumper sticker" Philosophy, I saw one recently that these people need to take to heart: Life is not a beach, it's a mountain. 

	And yes, I realize I'm painting with a broad brush. Many of these protestors simply don't like that their lifestyle/standard of living is changing becuase technology has made it possible for some uneducated (or undereducated) third worlder to do their job at 1/10th the price (or less). Some are genuinely concerned (I'm thinking back to the Seattle Protests) that NAFTA is allowing (supposedly, I don't know the truth) trucks and drivers into the country that have sub-standard safety inspections and sub-standard training (although I know that many of the American Trucks aren't exactly up to code). 
	
	There are a plethora of reasons why people are protesting, and many more reasons that other people who aren't the kind to protest don't like what is going on. 

>> The few issues they believe in
>> are getting ignored...

>Which issues are those?  So far, I haven't heard of ANY issues raised by the
>rioters that are being ignored.  Controversial/unproven issues such as
>"global warming" are being discussed ad nausea.  The main reason the
>governments of the world aren't "doing something" is because no one knows
>what really needs to be done.  Ignorant rioters THINK they know what needs
>to be done, but there is no reason to believe they know squat about the
>subject for which they claim to have such passion about.  Opinions--and
>that's all we're talking about here--are like assholes; everyone has one.

	Come on, "global warming" is a fact. We've gotten about .6 degrees warmer in the last 100 years. WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING BEFORE NEW YORK IS UNDER WATER.