Swiss and Firearms. was: Re: Killing the G8 Anarchists

[Black Unicorn]

Let me make some minor (nitpicking) corrections.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sandy Sandfort" <sandfort at mindspring.com>
To: <cypherpunks at lne.com>
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 11:41 AM
Subject: RE: Killing the G8 Anarchists


> Tim May wrote:
>
> > And even in Switzerland, my
> > understanding is that the rifles
> > issued to each male head of
> > household (maybe single moms, but
> > I doubt it) are kept IN THE HOUSES,
> > not in shops and businesses and
> > factories. Some of them might have
> > carried their rifles to their
> > businesses, though.
>
> Fortunately for the Swiss, Tim has it pretty much wrong.  Switzerland and
> pretty much universal mandatory military service for males.  The
mandatory
> part is offensive, but the result is that military personnel are usually
> issued submachine guns which they keep--along with ammo and the rest of
> their gear--in their home so that they can be called up quickly if
> necessary.

Mandatory is a flexible word in this case.  It's pretty easy to avoid
service if you really want to and are willing to pay a waiver fee or to
substitute service.  (The fee is returned if you make up the service).  The
latter is more difficult, but not impossible.  There are provisions also
for the exemption of 'conscience objectors.'  One will have better luck in
the French Cantons than the German on this point.

Every reservist or regular must compete in compulsory shooting exercises
yearly.  It's not much of a chore.  Over 200,000 citizens voluntarily
compete in the national 300m long rifle contest each year.  Women compose
about 30% of the participants in recent years.

Personally, I think mandatory service, when the requirements are as light
as they are in Switzerland, is a good thing (tm).

It's actually not "military personnel" but more like every household that
is required to maintain firearms.  It is true that each reservist or
regular in the army is issued a service rifle and two boxes of nicely
sealed ammunition.  Most cantons, however- and particularly the German
side- require every household to maintain a fully serviceable weapon and
other supplies.  Some cantons will even perform spot inspections and assess
fines if the weapons are not in proper order and ammunition not properly
stored in the right amount.

The mobilization goal of Switzerland is to have their autonomous civil
defense zones up and ready to fight in 48 hours or less.  Most cantons and
sub zones are tuned to mobilize in an afternoon.  Places like Zurich and
Geneva might have more extensive preparations and hence long mobilization
times.

The Swiss standard issue rifle is the outstanding Sig SG 550, but the Swiss
call the service rifle the Stgw90 (Sturmgewehr 90).  They also call the
ammunition the GeweherPatronen 90.  GP90.  It's a 5.6mm round (to distance
themselves from NATO) but entirely interchangeable with SS109 ammo.  All
the Sig 550's will take NATO 5.56 ammo without a hiccup.  They even have 1
in 7 twists and will deal with heavy or light NATO ammo well.  All service
rifles for the military are manufactured exclusively at the Sig factory in
Schaffhausen.  Having visited there I can attest that I'd be happy to eat
off the floor and ask for seconds.

Substituting the SG 550 for the SG 552 Commando Carbine is an option.

> In addition, the Swiss have a high level of ownership of personal
weapons.
> Kids regularly take their .22 rifles to school for approved shooting
> activities and business owners are often armed to the teeth.  (Ask Duncan
> about an eye-opening visit to the back room of a Swiss restaurant.

Outside of military service firearms are easy to come by and concealed
carry permits equally easy (with exceptions in some cantons like Vaud).  In
most cantons a Swiss citizen is automatically considered a "collector"
after his or her fifth weapon purchase.  The application for a license was
becoming such a rubber stamp process by 1996 that a proposal was made to
pre-print application forms with "for collection purposes" under the reason
for requesting a license.  (That being the politically correct reason to
request a firearm at the time).  The police were not amused so you actually
have to write that down now.

I've never experienced a permit application that took longer than 30 days
to approve, incidentally.

Fully automatic weapons are obtainable if you are a collector.  (i.e. have
purchased 5 other weapons).

There is no restriction, other than common sense, on the purchase of ammo.

Individuals can freely import 500 rounds of ammo per instance, if they
don't want to buy Swiss.  I'm not sure why anyone would prefer not to buy
Swiss ammo.

> Have you ever hear of a bank robbery in Switzerland?  In most Swiss
banks,
> tellers are armed.  They consider it their duty to chase down any bank
> robbers that make it out of the bank alive.  Don't fuck with the Swiss.

Not only that but the Swiss assign specific officers to bank duty on a
given shift.  They are generally armed with fully automatic weapons and
have a poor sense of humor when on duty.

I can relate from personal experience the plight of a French youth who
attempted to rob a bank in Zurich.  He held up the teller (a charming young
woman) with a .22 pistol and demanded 100,000 CHF.  The teller calmly
reached into the bank drawer, placed a stack of bills on the counter.
While the French youth gawked at the bills the teller calmly drew a 9mm
pistol and deposited two rounds in the youth's collarbone and shoulder.

The youth fell to the ground, dropped his pistol, recovered briefly, picked
up the gun again (probably a fatal mistake) and fled the bank.

Unfortunately for the youth the bank manager (wearing what must have been a
$3500 suit) drew his own concealed handgun and gave chase.  Outside of the
bank the youth turned around on the street on hearing the shout of the
manager, raised his weapon and was promptly dispatched by the bank manager
with a chest-head double tap.

Police arrived on the scene, (in about 30 seconds as a bank duty officer
was across the street) took the report of the bank manager, asked for (and
were refused) a copy of the bank surveillance tape (which was later
provided to the head administrative officer reviewing the case) and left.
The entire incident was cleared up and forgotten in 3 hours.  The bank
continued to transact business throughout the entire affair.

Messing with a Swiss bank is like messing with a lion's dinner.

Speaking of G8 nonsense- I suspect that if held in Switzerland most of the
merchants and land owners would be asked to leave because the authorities
would not want a bunch of dead foreigners.  I can assure you that no shop
owners would have been "spraying looters with automatic weapon fire."
Instead they would have been surgically dispatching each and every
participant with center mass three-round-bursts.  While killing several
dozen might send a good message, killing every single one of them with
Swiss (read military) like precision would be bad press for a low-profile
country.

The Swiss are very stern- if politely so- if you break the rules.  If you
break them violently they are just as politely lethal and simply will not
let you interefere with the conduct of business.