Meatspace,

[Jim Choate]

On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Faustine wrote:

> Exactly: those weren't the groups that made the real impact when it 
> actually came to getting down to business and changing policy. Blame 
> MKULTRA or whatever you want, but the bottom line is that they fell apart 
> (and had their members killed or put in jail) whereas groups who didn't 
> espouse violence continue to this day.

???? Black Panthers exist today...

But they did provide a 'extreme viewpoint' and made it easier for the
powers that be and more moderate groups to meet and make progress. A sort
of implied 'or else'.

> Without Ghandi, British policy would have taken a far different turn. 

In your opinion...opining on alternate futures is rife with problems you
seem to blithefully to ignore (at your own peril). Claiming omniciance
isn't a convincing argument.

> Violence hasn't exactly been a stunning success for the IRA, has it.

Actually I'd say it has, as a result of this civil war the chance of
Ireland getting their independence sooner rather than later (how long do
you figure the Brit's would have sat around if there had been no responce
- till hell freezes over I'd suspect).

Give a single example where absolute non-violence has worked...(there
aren't any)

It isn't in the human psyche to say "Well, we've oppressed them long
enough, let them go free. We'll make our profits and express our civil
authority some other way".


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