Dropping out of the USA

[Jim Choate]

Bull. But to specifics...

On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Ray Dillinger wrote:

> On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> >Seems to me the only answer is to keep moving, don't settle in any one
> >country (or store your possessions in any one jurisdiction) for a lengthy
> >stay. A couple of years max.
> 
> Um, no.  A couple of years would have been fine a decade ago, but 
> these days if you piss off The People Who Must Not Be Pissed Off, 
> extradition - from anywhere you'd remotely want to be - happens 
> really fast.

Is the point to live your life or piss people off with impunity? If it's
the latter then there is no hope for you because wherever you go you're
going to piss the 'man' off. Trying to cover this up (a social pathology) 
with some lame ass excuse that you're just trying to get by won't cut the
mustard. That's not indivuality, nor is it social responsibility. It's
just plain mean and self-absorbed.

However, if you're goal is to do what you want to do and not piss people
off then moving around every couple of years is a viable strategy. By the
time anyone figures out what it is you're doing, and get's pissed off
you're already gone. In addition, if you're smart anonymity will prevent
any 1-1 association (rather cypherpunkish) simply because you won't go
around bragging about what a bad ass you are.

Somehow I don't think 'cypherpunk' equals 'egotist' or 'rampant self
promotion'.

> And getting faster, at least until the US sets off 
> a backlash of sentiment among its current supporters. 
> 
> I guess it depends on what you're up to.  If you really want to 
> avoid attracting their attention -- then you're not posting to this 
> list ever again and you're *definitely* not doing anything like 
> Phil Zimmerman and several others we could name did.

Maybe, but then again we'll never know since Phil did it in the US and
chose to live here. What happened to him actually is a good example of how
not to do something like that.

He'd been better served writing the software here but releasing it
anonymously over-seas. He made a tactical error in that he not only wanted
to help people but wanted credit for it also.

Greed will get you killed.

> In short, you abandon cypherpunk ideas to all outward appearances and do 
> not contribute anything to the freedom of our descendants. You 
> just sit there like a nice little shitbag and quiver when they 
> tell you to quiver, and they'll leave you alone.  For now.  At 
> least until they run out of people who make them more nervous.

You're lack of imagination is in no way a boundary condition on mine.

This omnipotent and omnipresent 'they' you speak of simply doesn't exist
in the context you claim. If I were to live in England for a couple of
years writing some nifty anonymity code, or perhaps in some less 'legaly
diligant' clime for some more 'invasive' goal then it would only make
sense to execute in a different place. Anonymity is likely to be much
easier to manage in such an environment as well.
 
> On the other If you *do* attract their attention, then international 
> travel will make them even more nervous about you -- and we all know 
> (from Bell's case) what happens when Those Who Must Not Be Pissed 
> Off get nervous about a particular person.  A Kangaroo trial and 
> a long sentence, natch.  Same as anywhere else in the world.

If you do attract their attention you've already failed.

Bell's case is not an acceptable example for a variety of reasons.

> attract their attention.  But as far as you can avoid it, never 
> *frighten* them....  

They're inherently frightened, it's only a question of what now...

> I guarantee that if Phil Zimmerman had had an impressive 
> collection of guns or a stockpile of chemical reagents in his 
> posession when he released PGP, he would be rotting in jail 
> today and the rest of us wouldn't have PGP, nor its lineal 
> descendants.

He should have released PGP anonymously. It would not have been a
difficult proposition.


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