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To remove yourself from the mailing list, please log into Adultfriendfinder.com with your handle and password. *************************************************************** From bbrad25 at qwest.net Sun Jul 1 03:59:41 2001 From: bbrad25 at qwest.net (Brad Bradberry) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 04:59:41 -0600 Subject: Key West cops arrest editor Message-ID: How in hell did you move Key West to Cuba without the rest of the country finding out? You guys would make Fidel Castro proud. From juicy at melontraffickers.com Sun Jul 1 07:59:45 2001 From: juicy at melontraffickers.com (A. Melon) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 07:59:45 -0700 Subject: Prying Eyes Message-ID: Looks like we need to build some small radio-controlled blimps with paint spray guns to blind these suckers. From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sun Jul 1 06:21:40 2001 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 08:21:40 -0500 Subject: Slashdot | Prying Eyes of Tampa Police Message-ID: <3B3F23E4.FC432FB1@ssz.com> I think they're trying to make Reno feel at home and let her know she's got lots of support for the governorship... http://slashdot.org/articles/01/07/01/0348226.shtml -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From tcmay at got.net Sun Jul 1 09:01:49 2001 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 09:01:49 -0700 Subject: Prying Eyes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 7:59 AM -0700 7/1/01, A. Melon wrote: >Looks like we need to build some small radio-controlled blimps >with paint spray guns to blind these suckers. I urge people, even melons and melon-traffickers, to include context for their comments. Many of us filter out some of the spammers here, so "one-line-repartee" a la chat rooms is not very useful. (Sadly, one-line repartee is becoming the norm for more and more fora.) --Tim May -- Timothy C. May tcmay at got.net Corralitos, California Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns From makir2 at home.com Sun Jul 1 08:32:12 2001 From: makir2 at home.com (Daniel Morin) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 09:32:12 -0600 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <000a01c10243$014136c0$0a794718@ss.shawcable.net> Yes I am an agent of Satan....but my duties are largely ceremonial.... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 394 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tcmay at got.net Sun Jul 1 10:00:55 2001 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 10:00:55 -0700 Subject: Banned Research and Raids on "Secret Labs" Message-ID: Here's an item about the Feds banning certain types of biological research. More evidence that government is flexing its muscles to interfere in research it has decided is not acceptable...or that it is not controlling for its own purposes. I wonder what Thomas Jefferson, a noted amateur scientist, would have thought of the federal government raiding labs and subpoening records when it decided it wanted to? His cryptography research, for example? So much for the real spirit of the First and Fourth, amongst others. (Note: I realize, for you lawyers, that the Fourth was technically met, in that a valid court order was issued for the subpoenas and raids. It still sucks, though, to use a nonlegal term. Warrants and orders are issued freely. Fishing expeditions is what they really are. There's not a single one of us who could not have our possessions and papers sifted through if one of tens of thousands of prosecutors and investigators decided they wanted to. So much for "secure in one's papers and possessions" and "a man's home is his castle.") I'll include a few paragraphs, marked with << >> enclosers. http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/010709/usnews/clone.htm <> Comment: So, someone who _says_ they are interesting in human cloning can face a subpoenaing of records and documents. Interesting. So much for free scientific inquiry. And what's the significance of the "secret lab" language? Was it just the "U.S. News" reporter's take on the situation, or does having a "secret lab" enter into the gubment's case? How long before we see _crypto_ treated the same way? For example: "For Joe Cypherpunk, developing digital money isn't just good science, it's an imperative. Not surprising, Washington disagrees. A federal grand jury in Sunnyvale, CA has subpoenaed telephone records and other documents. FCC, SEC, and FBI agents visited the secret lab recently and ordered any digital money experiments to cease. Says one official: "There's a timeout in force."" (Oh, so now we have "timeouts" for banned research? So much for another of the rights enumerated in the BOR, the right to a trial. Yeah, I know about temporary injunctions and restraining orders, given exigent circumstances, blah blah. This sounds more like the harassment and road block issue, though. A "crackdown," as the reporter notes below.) << The crackdown marks the first time that investigators have uncovered a secret lab tied to human cloning in the United States, government sources say. >> Oooh, scary! A "secret lab"! What, all labs are supposed to be public, registering with the government? (There is no evidence the lab is using more dangerous chemicals than are normally found in any hardware store, for example, so "public safety" cannot be a justification.) The article goes on to talk about Clonaid and how they are not violating any laws, but how they plan to leave the U.S. to avoid this kind of "raid" harassment. << The federal investigation was prompted by statements Boisselier made this spring, when she said Clonaid was just weeks away from being ready to clone a human being. On March 27, Boisselier received a letter from the FDA, warning that the company might be in violation of FDA regulations. A similar letter was hand-delivered to the office of Panayiotis Zavos, a fertility expert from Lexington, Ky., who also says he plans to clone a human.>> Yeah, and if I "claim" that I am "just weeks away" from being ready to release a digital money system, can I expect a raid? Is there no consideration of common sense, or are prosecutors just flunkouts in science who can't separate speech acts from actual violations of the law? I can see there may be public safety issues in cases where, for example, a credible group--leave the definition of credible aside for now--makes a claim that they are weeks away from completing their own privately-funded atomic bomb, for example. Or weeks away from completing a batch of nerve gas. Some variants of libertarians and anarchists would disagree even with this, but at least the point is arguable. The issue of whether human cloning research is so intrinsically sensitive or dangerous that it requires preemptive raids and fishing expeditions is a topic worth discussing. For now, I'm pointing out some of the disturbing constitutional issues. << UFOs. But it was the Raelians who really got the FDA's attention. For months, Boisselier has told reporters that she has three scientists and a physician trying to resurrect an 11-month-old infant-the deceased son of a former state legislator, whom the Raelians refuse to identify-through genetic regeneration. >> Again, science flunkouts are running the investigations. << Clearly, the agency is trying to flex its regulatory muscle and show Congress that it hasn't been asleep at the switch. FDA investigators have been knocking on the doors of people like Richard Seed, a Chicago physicist who made headlines three years ago when he announced his intention to clone a human. "I think their purpose was to frighten me, and they did," says Seed. >> Yep. So much for the rule of law, and of valid laws. Consistent with crypto actions, as when NSA agents told Jim Bidzos that if he didn't play ball and adopt Big Brother's plans, they could just have him run over in his parking lot. (Threats like this, which are credible and violent threats, are not prosecuted. Meanwhile, Keith Henson faces a year in prison for a joking remark about a "Tom Cruise Missile" aimed at a Scientology compound. Some country we live in, eh?) << ... Alex Capron, professor of law and medicine at the University of Southern California told Congress last month. Capron points out that the FDA is charged with regulating safety concerns only. >> Indeed, and banning research or raiding "secret labs"--especially those with access to classified UFO data from the Greys living in Area 51!--is NOT a function of a regulatory agency devoted to the efficacy and safety of drugs and foodstuffs. << Even if a law were passed in the United States, it could prove difficult to enforce because cloning operations are easy to hide. Zavos, for example, says he knows of at least two other groups quietly trying to clone a human. Would-be cloners need only basic lab equipment. "It's not like it's a magical, secret thing," says Mark Westhusin of Texas A&M University, who works on cloning animals. A ban may also simply encourage scientists to pursue their work abroad, as Boisselier plans to. Zavos says his team has already set up two clandestine labs overseas. >> Yep. All predictable trends. Blacknet has had an active human cloning special interest section for several years. --Tim May -- Timothy C. May tcmay at got.net Corralitos, California Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sun Jul 1 08:15:14 2001 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 10:15:14 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Prying Eyes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Jul 2001, A. Melon wrote: > Looks like we need to build some small radio-controlled blimps > with paint spray guns to blind these suckers. http://www.robotgroup.org Look under 'Projects' and then 'Blimp History'. There is at least one company that sells RC Blimps, unfortunately I can't lay my hands on a link...:( -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sun Jul 1 08:56:30 2001 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 10:56:30 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Key length and stopping time Message-ID: Q: If it becomes possible, as some recent physics research indicates, that in some situations time can be stopped or eliminated what would the implication be with regard to estimating the time to resolve key lengths be? In other words if it becomes possible to have dynamic physical systems which operate at least in some sort of phase space with no time axis what does 'life of the universe' really mean? -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From morlockelloi at yahoo.com Sun Jul 1 11:02:52 2001 From: morlockelloi at yahoo.com (Morlock Elloi) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 11:02:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Banned Research and Raids on "Secret Labs" Message-ID: <20010701180252.19261.qmail@web13204.mail.yahoo.com> >this, but at least the point is arguable. The issue of whether human >cloning research is so intrinsically sensitive or dangerous that it >requires preemptive raids and fishing expeditions is a topic worth >discussing. For now, I'm pointing out some of the disturbing >constitutional issues. Cloning taboo, as all other taboos exist because of the influence they may have on the powers that be. Individual identity is a basis for so-called "legal system" and law enforcement in general. While corporations and governments (as in "powers that be") are allowed group/communal identities, mere citizen-units are not. I think that there is a generic fear that powerful individuals (cloning is off-limits to wage slaves) would somehow become more powerful if they can copy themselves. Also, lot of the System is based on the strict reproduction control, individuals coming out in unapproved manner would mess that up. Can you imagine Tim May *brought up* by Tim May ? Horrible. But I don't think that it can be stopped. There is a strong incentive for corporations to breed obedient workers and for the state to breed servile citizens. That is much more economical and less risky than having to brainwash each and every new generation. Soon you'll see middle-aged bald and impotent managers asking the meekest and lowest paid 10-hr/day workers if they will donate some stem cells for a day off. Same thing will happen in the voting booths. Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sun Jul 1 09:04:45 2001 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 11:04:45 -0500 Subject: CNN.com - NOW elects new president - July 1, 2001 Message-ID: <3B3F4A1D.B32DE0B3@ssz.com> http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/07/01/NOW.gandy/index.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sun Jul 1 09:26:30 2001 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 11:26:30 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Filtering 'spammers', one line comments, and Tim May Message-ID: You reap what you sow. -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From mjs.crypto at eudoramail.com Sun Jul 1 11:27:23 2001 From: mjs.crypto at eudoramail.com (Markku Saarelainen) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 11:27:23 -0700 Subject: We shall fight ............. Message-ID: I am in the U.S.A. I have been here since 1989 ... I believe in the Communist Revolution. I am in Miami and in the process of recruiting more members to my Communist Party unit here. I do it very openly .. I am not afraid of death. We must fight ... AND FIGHT NOW ... let's be Satans and we must FIGHT NOW ! http://www.funet.fi/pub/culture/russian/voices/realaudio/international.ra http://www.funet.fi/pub/culture/russian/voices/realaudio/sovietnationalanthem.ra I have told my story on the USENET bulletin board: alt.politics.org.cia --- read my messages .. I am the main contributor. Please, email my message to all Communist Party representatives around the globe .... WE SHALL FIGHT ... WE SHALL FIGHT TO THE VERY LAST MOMENT OF OUR SOULS, HEARTS AND MINDS ... ! Markku J. Saarelainen Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com From tcmay at got.net Sun Jul 1 11:36:55 2001 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 11:36:55 -0700 Subject: Banned Research and Raids on "Secret Labs" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 10:00 AM -0700 7/1/01, Tim May wrote: >Here's an item about the Feds banning certain types of biological >research. More evidence that government is flexing its muscles to >interfere in research it has decided is not acceptable...or that it >is not controlling for its own purposes. I wonder what Thomas >Jefferson, a noted amateur scientist, would have thought of the >federal government raiding labs and subpoening records when it >decided it wanted to? His cryptography research, for example? So much >for the real spirit of the First and Fourth, amongst others. I discussed several different issues related tot his raid/ban/UFO cult/etc. To separate some of the issues: 1. The basic issue of the constitutionality in these united States of "bans" on research, qua research. Whether the research is about cloning or cryptography or nuclear science, the issue of whether government has the constitutional authority to _ban_ research (as opposed to, say, exploding nuclear weapons or manufacturing nerve agents) is a basic one. 1A: Congress surely has the authority to bar the use of government funding in human cloning. The issue above is not about government funding, but whether they may suppress scientific research by individuals, universities, corporations, and other non-federally funded entities. 2. The issue of how "raids" and "subpoenas" and "visits" and "crackdowns" occur. This is related to the issue of warrants and subpoenas being increasingly easy to obtain, with many judges pre-signing stacks of warrants/orders to be used as LEAs see fit. In the case of this "secret lab" being "visited." there are Fourth Amendment and trespassing issues. 2A: Trespassing on corporate property has long been the norm for regulatory agents, without them seeking specific court approval. OSHA visits corporations (and even private institutions) to check on the height of seat chairs and the placement of safety showers. Fire marshals check for fire extinguishers and safety posters. Perhaps worst of all, IMO, "Child Protective Services" has the apparent right, they claim, to show up at a house or apartment and demand to inspect the premises. These are all cases where the letter of the Fourth Amendment is certainly not being followed, and the spirit is being obliterated. There is very little difference between what the Founders were concerned about, that the King's Men would randomly enter homes looking for seditious materials and troublemakers, and the current situations where the new instances of the King's Men can enter homes, corporations, and other private properties to look for politically incorrect materials. 2B: Copyright and anti-piracy is a related issue. Surprise audits of corporations, for example. (Hey, if I _suspect_ my neighbor has illegally copied a tape I lent him just for viewing, can I demand to inspect his house?) 3. The "chilling effect" issue. These raids and "timeouts" (their language) are used to harass and slow down researchers and other politically incorrect persons. The language is telling: "send a message," "signal our unhappiness," "order a timeout," "a shot across the bow," etc. These raids and subpoenas and "visits" are designed to intimidate in an extra-constitutional way. The Founders would see this as another case of the King's Men throwing their weight around. (We have seen this in crypto, where labs get "visits" by Men in Black from the Office of Export Control, the NSA, etc. We see fewer reports, at least reported here, of researchers being warned that their research could land them in trouble, but it probably still happens. ) 4. Lastly, the science and pseudoscience issue. This UFO cult was visited/raided on the basis of bizarre claims about their desire to clone a dead baby, with some weird mix-in cult beliefs. Where's the scientific credibility that they have the means and knowledge to do a real clone? All of these issues are part of the slippery slope of banning research. We are seeing a move toward an era of Forbidden Knowledge. It started with some limited areas of military research and extended into cryptography in the 60s and 70s (maybe some classifications before the 60s, too). Now it is being extended into biology. Sen. Feinstein wants "bomb-making instructions" banned. Sen. Lieberman has his own list of things he wants banned. My reading of the U.S. Constitution says that government may not ban information or limit the reading (research, thinking) activities of the people. And it says the powers of law enforcement are not to be used outside of legitimate court-ordered actions, with public trials and juries of one's peers. Using law enforcement to "send messages" and "order timeouts" and "fire a shot across the bow" is just not part of our judicial or legislative system. But since the Supreme Court has not even dared to revisit the Second Amendment limitations (of Miller), they are unlikely to face up to this slippery slope of increasing Thought Police activities. --Tim May -- Timothy C. May tcmay at got.net Corralitos, California Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns From jdd at vbc.net Sun Jul 1 03:46:26 2001 From: jdd at vbc.net (Jim Dixon) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 11:46:26 +0100 (BST) Subject: your mail In-Reply-To: <00c801c10164$dbcd3260$0300000a@espol.com.pl> Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Jun 2001, [iso-8859-2] A. 嚙踝蕭czak wrote: > Excuse me, do you know the firm in Europe which istall internet via > electric lines? As I recall, Norweb in the UK offered this service, or talked about offering it, 3-4 years ago. The idea was that already having wiring into homes would give them a major advantage in the market. Then they found that they were having serious problems with EM emissions as they expanded the service -- I believe that transformers were radiating massive amounts of noise, breaking EU regulations -- and, uhm, they weren't very good as an ISP. Their accountants did some calculations and the whole enterprise disappeared. > Arek, Poland > telephone: +48 604 890 008. -- Jim Dixon VBCnet GB Ltd http://www.vbc.net tel +44 117 929 1316 fax +44 117 927 2015 From jdd at vbc.net Sun Jul 1 03:46:26 2001 From: jdd at vbc.net (Jim Dixon) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 11:46:26 +0100 (BST) Subject: your mail In-Reply-To: <00c801c10164$dbcd3260$0300000a@espol.com.pl> Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Jun 2001, [iso-8859-2] A. #1czak wrote: > Excuse me, do you know the firm in Europe which istall internet via > electric lines? As I recall, Norweb in the UK offered this service, or talked about offering it, 3-4 years ago. The idea was that already having wiring into homes would give them a major advantage in the market. Then they found that they were having serious problems with EM emissions as they expanded the service -- I believe that transformers were radiating massive amounts of noise, breaking EU regulations -- and, uhm, they weren't very good as an ISP. Their accountants did some calculations and the whole enterprise disappeared. > Arek, Poland > telephone: +48 604 890 008. -- Jim Dixon VBCnet GB Ltd http://www.vbc.net tel +44 117 929 1316 fax +44 117 927 2015 From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sun Jul 1 09:51:30 2001 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 11:51:30 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Zero Knowledge Identity Proofs (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:00:26 -0700 From: Marc Branchaud To: cryptography at wasabisystems.com Subject: Re: Zero Knowledge Identity Proofs Well, I can't be sure that I'm not misunderstanding something either. For the most part, I agree with Dimitrios that challenges with proof of origin are part of the solution to Mafia Fraud attacks. My main point is that I don't think simply signing the challenge is enough. Let me try to restate things symbolically. Nominally, in the naive case, Dave would present Alice with a challenge, X, and Alice would transform & return the challenge: X'. This, as we know, is vulnerable to the Mafia Fraud. What I believe Dimitrios is proposing is for Dave to present both the challenge and a signature on the challenge: {X, S_dave(X)}. Then, Alice would verify that the signature corresponds to the person she thinks she's talking to, and if so she can return the transformed challenge X'. I'm essentially contending that Dave needs to verify that Alice did indeed see the challenge & signature he presented. Consider Mafia Fraud against the above scenario. Dave presents {X, S_dave(X)} to Carol, who forwards it to Bob. Now, Bob can re-sign the challenge himself, and present {X, S_bob(X)} to Alice. Alice will happily verify that the challenge comes from Bob, and return X' to Bob, who then passes it to Carol & then on to Dave. The fraud is successful, because Dave can't tell that Alice saw Bob's signature on the challenge and not his own. So the X' that Alice computes must be a function f(X, S_dave(X)) on both the challenge and the signature. (If, in the naive case, X'=S_alice(X), then to truly prevent the fraud we need X'=S_alice(X,S_dave(X)).) Now the fraud fails because Alice would compute X'=f(X, S_bob(X)), and so Dave (not Alice) would detect the fraud. So it's not enough for Dave to simply sign the challenge & for Alice to verify that signature. Alice must prove to Dave that she saw his signature and not somebody else's. BTW, without giving it any thought, I believe this scheme is safe against replay attacks (because Dave generates a new challenge every time). Does anybody have any thoughts about that? Marc --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From George at Orwellian.Org Sun Jul 1 08:57:33 2001 From: George at Orwellian.Org (George at Orwellian.Org) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 11:57:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Aluminum underwear, pants, suitcases illegal in CO stores Message-ID: <200107011557.LAA16758@www6.aa.psiweb.com> That article on Florida cameras was horrifying. ---- Aluminized Pants, 15 ounce Rayon, Kevlar. Thread, Large, 32 inch Inseam Length: http://www.grainger.com/images/products/5t323.jpg http://www.grainger.com/images/products/5t338.jpg http://www.grainger.com/images/products/1e006.jpg You can pull up the main URL and type the '5t323' number in the search box for the full page. ---- http://www.gazette.com/archive/01-06-27/daily/top4.html # # Would-be shoplifters foiled # # Sporting aluminum underwear illegal under new law # By Bill McKeown/The Gazette # # If you're thinking about going to the mall in that snappy # aluminum-lined underwear in the back of your dresser drawer, # think again. # # Beginning Sunday, it will be illegal in Colorado to wear aluminum # underwear. # # OK, there's a caveat. You can wear aluminum briefs and lingerie # as long as it's for personal amusement - but not if it is to # help steal by foiling stores' anti-shoplifting devices. # # The new law, surely the oddest of the dozens coming out of this # season's legislative session, is no laughing matter ... really. # # "This is serious business," said Sen. Stephanie Takis, D-Aurora, # one of the bill's sponsors. "We have laws against using crowbars # as theft devices, but if you were lining your underwear with # aluminum foil, that was not a crime." # # And by golly, said Takis, it should be. She cited several # Denver-area malls that have caught shoplifters with aluminum-lined # shopping bags and even the so-called "iron pants" and could do # nothing to stop it. # # Steve Miller, an attorney with the Legislative Council, helped # draft the bill: "I don't know if it was the highlight of my # career, but I got the assignment." # # Miller said the bill went through several evolutions - "or # devolutions depending on your viewpoint" - before it received # Gov. Bill Owens' approval. # # Essentially, it makes it a misdemeanor to make, wear or know # others are wearing aluminum underwear if they intend to use it # to fool stores' theft-protection devices. Those devices # electronically sense when merchandise leaving the store hasn't # been handled by a cashier, and foil can interfere with that # detection. # # Miller said the new law also gives store employees civil and # criminal immunity if they stop shoppers who crackle when they # walk. ---- > Beginning Sunday, shoplifting should become a much riskier business in Colorado. > "Don't walk into a store with the idea you can shield and steal," says JoAnn Groff, > president of the Colorado Retail Council and an enthusiastic supporter of a new law to > crack down on shoplifters. > > Under House Bill 1221, anyone walking into a store with a bag or coat lined with aluminum > foil -- or any other device aimed at eluding anti-shoplifting devices -- can be charged > with a Class 1 misdemeanor carrying carries a penalty of up to 24 months in jail and a > $5,000 fine. > > "It gives us another very important tool in prosecuting shoplifters," Groff explained. > "With this law in effect, we don't have to wait until they take something out of a store." >... > But the law that Groff fought for during the past legislative session is one geared to > make life more difficult for shoplifters. > > Groff won't outline the devices used to trick anti-theft detectors at store doors... From bear at sonic.net Sun Jul 1 12:38:10 2001 From: bear at sonic.net (Ray Dillinger) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 12:38:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Banned Research and Raids on "Secret Labs" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Jul 2001, Tim May wrote: >Yeah, and if I "claim" that I am "just weeks away" from being ready >to release a digital money system, can I expect a raid? Is there no >consideration of common sense, or are prosecutors just flunkouts in >science who can't separate speech acts from actual violations of the >law? Your point is well taken; however, it is simply pragmatic that when one is mere weeks away from releasing a digital money system, given the current legal environment, one MUST NOT say so. In order to maintain anonymity in the current legal environment, a digital money system will have to be independent of all nation states -- hence, not overtly tied to nor created by any known organization or person. This presents major logistical difficulties for the idea of a "unified" system with a single currency; it becomes very difficult for an issuing authority to "redeem on demand" without becoming known. The difficulties are different for the "every member a mint" model, but by no means less. Bear From f775175616 at hotmail.com Sun Jul 1 13:55:52 2001 From: f775175616 at hotmail.com (f775175616 at hotmail.com) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 13:55:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: 告訴你如何打手機不計費！如何上網不用錢！！．．．．．．告訴你如何打手機不計告訴你如何打手機不計費！如何上網不用錢！！．告訴你如何打手機不計費！如何上網不用錢！！．． Message-ID: <200107012055.NAA15891@toad.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1462 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Sun Jul 1 12:23:56 2001 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 14:23:56 -0500 Subject: Slashdot | Eco-Terrorism Message-ID: <3B3F78CC.E5237DA7@ssz.com> http://slashdot.org/science/01/07/01/1634213.shtml -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From declan at well.com Sun Jul 1 13:04:22 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 16:04:22 -0400 Subject: Banned Research and Raids on "Secret Labs" In-Reply-To: ; from tcmay@got.net on Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 10:00:55AM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20010701160422.A4441@cluebot.com> Also see this editorial: http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A1963-2001Jun29.html THOUGH STILL publicly wavering on whether to support funding for stem cell research, the Bush administration has begun wading into the tangle of issues that accompany the new reproductive technologies. A health official testifying before Congress last month signaled the administration's support for a bill to ban all human cloning. 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Sincerely, Sean Morry Otterho Marketing Group streamcurve at asus.net -------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Link Crafter. You can get info about how to get Link Crafter for free by emailing the sender of this message. From mjs.crypto at eudoramail.com Sun Jul 1 17:24:27 2001 From: mjs.crypto at eudoramail.com (Markku Saarelainen) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 17:24:27 -0700 Subject: We shall fight ............. Message-ID: My flag ... the real story of this is that I had the large Red Soviet Flag on my wall in Lappeenranta, Finland, while studying, but some people stole it from me in 1987 .... I received it in the special delivery from Moscow in 1986 .. I am very proud of my flag ... Today .. my flag is being brought to places in Germany, Sweden, USA, Austria and around the world ... I love my flag .... and I proudly shall pull it up and let people see my real flag .. I have lived for 14 under cover ... I am the real KGB agent ... have been since my childhood ... http://www.multimediapalace.com/flags/s/su-flag1.gif http://www.okay.com/realmedia/sovanthm.ram Markku J. Saarelainen Miami, USA -- On Sun, 01 Jul 2001 11:27:23 Markku Saarelainen wrote: > > I am in the U.S.A. I have been here since 1989 ... I believe in the Communist Revolution. > > I am in Miami and in the process of recruiting more members to my Communist Party unit here. I do it very openly .. I am not afraid of death. > > We must fight ... AND FIGHT NOW ... let's be Satans and we must FIGHT NOW ! > >http://www.funet.fi/pub/culture/russian/voices/realaudio/international.ra > > http://www.funet.fi/pub/culture/russian/voices/realaudio/sovietnationalanthem.ra > > I have told my story on the USENET bulletin board: alt.politics.org.cia --- read my messages .. I am the main contributor. > > Please, email my message to all Communist Party representatives around the globe .... WE SHALL FIGHT ... WE SHALL FIGHT TO THE VERY LAST MOMENT OF OUR SOULS, HEARTS AND MINDS ... ! > >Markku J. Saarelainen > > > > >Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com > Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com From mjs.crypto at eudoramail.com Sun Jul 1 17:34:00 2001 From: mjs.crypto at eudoramail.com (Markku Saarelainen) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 17:34:00 -0700 Subject: We shall fight ............. Message-ID: My advice to all demonstrator in Austria .. do not attack police forces protecting buildings ... attack panelist and their support groups before any of these events .... Read the Art of War by Sun Tzu .. attack their plans and strategies .. do it before events .... be the Satan ... cause the HELL .. Markku J. Saarelainen -- On Sun, 01 Jul 2001 11:27:23 Markku Saarelainen wrote: > > I am in the U.S.A. I have been here since 1989 ... I believe in the Communist Revolution. > > I am in Miami and in the process of recruiting more members to my Communist Party unit here. I do it very openly .. I am not afraid of death. > > We must fight ... AND FIGHT NOW ... let's be Satans and we must FIGHT NOW ! > >http://www.funet.fi/pub/culture/russian/voices/realaudio/international.ra > > http://www.funet.fi/pub/culture/russian/voices/realaudio/sovietnationalanthem.ra > > I have told my story on the USENET bulletin board: alt.politics.org.cia --- read my messages .. I am the main contributor. > > Please, email my message to all Communist Party representatives around the globe .... WE SHALL FIGHT ... WE SHALL FIGHT TO THE VERY LAST MOMENT OF OUR SOULS, HEARTS AND MINDS ... ! > >Markku J. Saarelainen > > > > >Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com > Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com From mjs.crypto at eudoramail.com Sun Jul 1 17:40:04 2001 From: mjs.crypto at eudoramail.com (Markku Saarelainen) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 17:40:04 -0700 Subject: We shall fight against these bankers ... in all levels in Austria elsewhere .... Message-ID: Let's be the SATAN and CAUSE HELL ... THE REAL HELL .... .... Attack their plans ,... attack their support networks, attack their intelligence organizations .... forward your messages .... use guerilla warfare tactics and strategies ..... CAUSE HELL ... BE THE SATAN ..... TARGET STOCK MARKET .. MANIPULATE INFORMATION ... LIE, STEAL AND SO ON ... WE FIGHT TO WIN .... BE THE SATAN ... CAUSE HELL ... Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com From mjs.crypto at eudoramail.com Sun Jul 1 17:44:12 2001 From: mjs.crypto at eudoramail.com (Markku Saarelainen) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 17:44:12 -0700 Subject: We shall fight ............. Message-ID: I am willing to suggest that all demonstrators shall equip themselves with automatic rifles ... I have one .... and around 1500 bullets .... we shall fight ... WE SHALL WIN .... Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com From mjs.crypto at eudoramail.com Sun Jul 1 17:53:57 2001 From: mjs.crypto at eudoramail.com (Markku Saarelainen) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 17:53:57 -0700 Subject: My message to all these International Bankers .... I FIGHT AGAINST YOU !!!!! Message-ID: I am not afraid of death and I see it every day. I hope that you remember this, when you go to your bed every night or say "Night" to your children. I hope you remember people like me. I shall be the Satan ...... I do not care about you or your families in the same way you never cared about me or my 2-person family. Markku J. Saarelainen Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com From aimee.farr at pobox.com Sun Jul 1 16:07:34 2001 From: aimee.farr at pobox.com (Aimee Farr) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 18:07:34 -0500 Subject: Aluminum underwear, pants, suitcases illegal in CO stores In-Reply-To: <200107011557.LAA16758@www6.aa.psiweb.com> Message-ID: Regarding the criminalization of anti-surveillance devices aimed at thwarting retail theft protection systems....(foil-lined bags, etc.) There is a similar bill up in Texas. (I think I posted on this.) Actually, this was addressed by other state legislatures as far back as 1988. Meanwhile, DIY spyware is marketed on the Net with a clearly illusory alternative purpose. The security industry says it's a serious problem, but the criminalization of countermeasures gives me considerable pause. ~Aimee From keyser-soze at hushmail.com Sun Jul 1 21:00:59 2001 From: keyser-soze at hushmail.com (keyser-soze at hushmail.com) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 20:00:59 -0800 (PDT) Subject: Banned Research and Raids on "Secret Labs" Message-ID: <200107020302.UAA30739@user5.hushmail.com> >At 11:36 AM 7/1/2001 -0700, Tim May wrote: >3. The "chilling effect" issue. These raids and "timeouts" (their language) are used to harass and slow down researchers and other politically incorrect persons. The language is telling: "send a message," "signal our unhappiness, " "order a timeout," "a shot across the bow," etc. These raids and subpoenas and "visits" are designed to intimidate in an extra-constitutional way. The Founders would see this as another case of the King's Men throwing their weight around. An eqally chilling response would be for a few terminally ill anarchists to wire up their home with explosives, announce they too intend to conduct human cloning experiments and wait for the no-know at the door. ks Free, encrypted, secure Web-based email at www.hushmail.com From honig at sprynet.com Sun Jul 1 20:40:24 2001 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 20:40:24 -0700 Subject: compelled speech in texas In-Reply-To: <3B3D1100.B2C613B2@lsil.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010701204024.008cb6b0@pop.sprynet.com> At 04:36 PM 6/29/01 -0700, mmotyka at lsil.com wrote: > Sec. 35.102. SOFTWARE OR SERVICES THAT RESTRICT ACCESS TO CERTAIN >MATERIAL ON INTERNET. > (a) A person who provides an interactive computer service to >another person for a fee shall provide free of charge to each subscriber >of the service in this state a > link leading to fully functional shareware, freeware, or >demonstration versions of software or to a service that, for at least >one operating system, enables the > subscriber to automatically block or screen material on the >Internet. You could simply tell them to edit their hosts table so that Evil domain names point nowhere. > (b) A provider is considered to be in compliance with this >section if the provider places, on the provider's first page of world >wide web text information accessible to > a subscriber, WTF is a "first" page in hyperlinked text? Unconstitutional *and* sloppy lawwriting. From honig at sprynet.com Sun Jul 1 21:00:46 2001 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 21:00:46 -0700 Subject: Banned Research and Raids on "Secret Labs" In-Reply-To: <20010701180252.19261.qmail@web13204.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010701210046.008cdb00@pop.sprynet.com> At 11:02 AM 7/1/01 -0700, Morlock Elloi wrote: >on the powers that be. Individual identity is a basis for so-called "legal >system" and law enforcement in general. While corporations and governments (as >in "powers that be") are allowed group/communal identities, mere citizen-units >are not. Get a grip. Any infant born is currently treated as an "individual", even if they are accompanied by identical siblings ---identical twins are natural clones. >I think that there is a generic fear that powerful individuals (cloning is >off-limits to wage slaves) would somehow become more powerful if they can copy >themselves. Its religious idiots for the most part, at least in the US. From honig at sprynet.com Sun Jul 1 21:03:20 2001 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 21:03:20 -0700 Subject: Banned Research and Raids on "Secret Labs" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010701210320.008d0640@pop.sprynet.com> At 11:36 AM 7/1/01 -0700, Tim May wrote: >4. Lastly, the science and pseudoscience issue. This UFO cult was >visited/raided on the basis of bizarre claims about their desire to >clone a dead baby, with some weird mix-in cult beliefs. Where's the >scientific credibility that they have the means and knowledge to do a >real clone? A baby that died of a genetic defect well before the age of reproduction. They need a serious education in evolution... From tcmay at got.net Sun Jul 1 21:23:46 2001 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 21:23:46 -0700 Subject: Banned Research and Raids on "Secret Labs" In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010701210320.008d0640@pop.sprynet.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20010701210320.008d0640@pop.sprynet.com> Message-ID: At 9:03 PM -0700 7/1/01, David Honig wrote: >At 11:36 AM 7/1/01 -0700, Tim May wrote: >>4. Lastly, the science and pseudoscience issue. This UFO cult was >>visited/raided on the basis of bizarre claims about their desire to >>clone a dead baby, with some weird mix-in cult beliefs. Where's the >>scientific credibility that they have the means and knowledge to do a >>real clone? > >A baby that died of a genetic defect well before the age of >reproduction. They need a serious education in evolution... Sure. But not a raid by Big Brother. This is the crux. --Tim May -- Timothy C. May tcmay at got.net Corralitos, California Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns From jd at fbi.gov Sun Jul 1 21:37:43 2001 From: jd at fbi.gov (John Doe #2) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 21:37:43 -0700 Subject: Aluminum underwear, pants, suitcases illegal in CO stores Message-ID: <3B3FFA91.6F62C9CF@fbi.gov> At 11:57 AM 7/1/01 -0400, George at Orwellian.Org wrote: > >Aluminized Pants, 15 ounce Rayon, >Kevlar. Thread, Large, 32 inch Inseam Length: >http://www.grainger.com/images/products/5t323.jpg See also http://www.zapatopi.net/afdb.html And http://www.stopabductions.com/ ........ The great thing is they'll just think you're paranoid, chemically, instead of tempest/crypto paranoid. Unless you start talking. (Maybe even then :-) ........ Note that a simple magnet is capable of de-activating certain kinds of anti-theft tags. EDN has a recent article on how they (and other kinds) work. From jd at fbi.gov Sun Jul 1 21:54:05 2001 From: jd at fbi.gov (John Doe #2) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 21:54:05 -0700 Subject: National Association of Trucker/Guinea Pigs Message-ID: <3B3FFE69.E9EA7184@fbi.gov> At 11:36 PM 7/1/01 -0400, Declan McCullagh wrote: >Now this is highly cypherpunk-relevant. > >I hear the National Association of Truckers is electing a new >chief comptroller. Heh, the truckers beta-test the geographic surveillance gear before its pushed onto Joe Sixpack. (Their precious bodily fluids are also randomly sampled...) ...and the schoolchildren beta-test the video gear... The former tolerate it as conditions of work on public roads, the latter have no choice. From jd at fbi.gov Sun Jul 1 23:17:39 2001 From: jd at fbi.gov (John Doe #2) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 23:17:39 -0700 Subject: stop the person and determine their identity Message-ID: <3B401203.1D9D26BD@fbi.gov> http://www.sptimes.com/News/063001/TampaBay/Ybor_police_cameras_g.shtml Ybor police cameras go spy-tech If there is a resemblance, the computer will rate it from 1 to 10, giving out an audible "whoop whoop!" alarm for 8.5 and above. The officer will then contact others on the street by radio, Todd said, who will stop the person and determine their identity. If they are wanted, they will be arrested. If they are not, the situation will be explained to them and they are free to go. Since when can cops stop you on the street, when you're not committing a crime, and ask for ID? Because a computer gave them "probable cause"??? And in the 'needs organ harvesting' dept, from the same article "That's awesome," said Souders, 35, a caterer. "If you don't have anything to worry about, it won't bother you. As far as any invasion of rights -- if you're breaking the law, your rights are kind of dissolved." From declan at well.com Sun Jul 1 20:34:22 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 23:34:22 -0400 Subject: Banned Research and Raids on "Secret Labs" In-Reply-To: <20010701160422.A4441@cluebot.com>; from declan@well.com on Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 04:04:22PM -0400 References: <20010701160422.A4441@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <20010701233422.B11904@cluebot.com> And a conservative view: For a Total Ban on Human Cloning Jun. 26, 2001 04:21 ET www.weeklystandard.com/magazine/mag_6_40_01/bottum_kristol_ed_6_40_01.asp -Declan On Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 04:04:22PM -0400, Declan McCullagh wrote: > Also see this editorial: > > http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A1963-2001Jun29.html THOUGH > STILL publicly wavering on whether to support funding for stem cell > research, the Bush administration has begun wading into the tangle of > issues that accompany the new reproductive technologies. A health > official testifying before Congress last month signaled the > administration's support for a bill to ban all human cloning. [...] > > -Declan From declan at well.com Sun Jul 1 20:36:23 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 23:36:23 -0400 Subject: CNN.com - NOW elects new president - July 1, 2001 In-Reply-To: <3B3F4A1D.B32DE0B3@ssz.com>; from ravage@einstein.ssz.com on Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 11:04:45AM -0500 References: <3B3F4A1D.B32DE0B3@ssz.com> Message-ID: <20010701233623.C11904@cluebot.com> Now this is highly cypherpunk-relevant. I hear the National Association of Truckers is electing a new chief comptroller. Perhaps Choate will be so kind as to oblige us with a link. -Declan On Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 11:04:45AM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/07/01/NOW.gandy/index.html > -- > > -- > ____________________________________________________________________ > > Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. > > Ludwig Wittgenstein > > The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate > Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com > www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 > -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- > -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Sun Jul 1 22:38:40 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 00:38:40 -0500 Subject: Tampabay: Ybor police cameras go spy-tech Message-ID: <3B4008E0.C557245D@ssz.com> http://www.sptimes.com/News/063001/TampaBay/Ybor_police_cameras_g.shtml -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From George at Orwellian.Org Sun Jul 1 22:39:08 2001 From: George at Orwellian.Org (George at Orwellian.Org) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 01:39:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Misc Message-ID: <200107020539.BAA20513@www1.aa.psiweb.com> Choate on Eco-Terrorism: # http://slashdot.org/science/01/07/01/1634213.shtml While searching for 'fire unsolved "melt concrete"', I came across: http://www.landrights.org/ALRA.oregonian.eco-terrorism.htm The robotic blimp idea reminded me of a TV report I saw where someone is occasionally setting fires around the country using some sort of chemicals that burn very, very hot. It burned holes through some concrete building tops. A real mystery, and they didn't know what the chemicals were. No "cause" was involved, just the love of fire. But I don't remember the channel, and I can't find a trace of it using google. If anyone has heard of this let me know. Sounds like good blimp payload for radomes. ;-) ---- Found a lot of weird stuff while searching. ---- The melting point of concrete varies between 1800-25000C. Arcstarter: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/6160/ Things to do with a 25000 Joule capacitor... Explode a hotdog using #24 copper wire and a large capacitor (pending) (did you know - a hotdog will dissipate 5 million watts at 20,000 volts???) http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/6160/jacko.html Melt a penny, WWW supported by NASA (USA military) http://wattwatchers.utep.edu/penny.html http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2001/06/13/speeder.DTL # # Speeder Clocked At -- 712 MPH?! # Wednesday, June 13, 2001 # # KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia (AP) -- A driver accused of going 712 # mph in a 56 zone says there must be some mistake that's nearly # the speed of sound. # # While he doesn't claim to be completely innocent, Lim Ang Hing # says his speedometer on his sedan goes only up to 161, The Star # newspaper reported Tuesday. # # In February, a taxi driver received a speeding ticket for # allegedly driving at 696 mph. Police said the problem is # probably a technical glitch. Barbicide: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1609480292 The Unix Haters Handbook http://catalog.com/hopkins/unix-haters/login.html There is this on the Department of Defense adopting StarOffice... http://www.zdnet.com/eweek/stories/general/0,11011,2779806,00.html From George at Orwellian.Org Sun Jul 1 22:43:53 2001 From: George at Orwellian.Org (George at Orwellian.Org) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 01:43:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Jim Choate is a boob Message-ID: <200107020543.BAA06235@www3.aa.psiweb.com> %From: Jim Choate %Subject: Tampabay: Ybor police cameras go spy-tech # http://www.sptimes.com/News/063001/TampaBay/Ybor_police_cameras_g.shtml Listen, dodo, that was the main link in the slashdot article you linked to. Aren't you even reading the stuff you're posting here? From vab at cryptnet.net Sun Jul 1 22:47:00 2001 From: vab at cryptnet.net (V. Alex Brennen) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 01:47:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: ANNC: Strong Distribution HOWTO Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp Size: 936 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cuirman at hotmail.com Sun Jul 1 19:23:25 2001 From: cuirman at hotmail.com (Jay Thomas) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 02:23:25 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 448 bytes Desc: not available URL: From amoles5066 at speedwayproducts.com Mon Jul 2 02:55:45 2001 From: amoles5066 at speedwayproducts.com (amoles5066 at speedwayproducts.com) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 02:55:45 Subject: Making $5K+ A Month Online? 5 Message-ID: <200107020557.NAA0000019911@www.gntalent.com.cn> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1234 bytes Desc: not available URL: From George at Orwellian.Org Mon Jul 2 00:40:20 2001 From: George at Orwellian.Org (George at Orwellian.Org) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 03:40:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Police photos Message-ID: <200107020740.DAA21018@www6.aa.psiweb.com> Found some funny stuff at funnysnaps.com. http://www.geocities.com/absea98/iphotopolewrap.html Great T-shirt! http://www.geocities.com/absea98/bombshirt.html From George at Orwellian.Org Mon Jul 2 02:30:03 2001 From: George at Orwellian.Org (George at Orwellian.Org) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 05:30:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Firms resisting the NSA's CALEA due to economy Message-ID: <200107020930.FAA01543@www7.aa.psiweb.com> Excerpt: # "In a packet world, somebody has to open the packet to look for # the information the FBI is seeking. Is the FBI going to do it? # We're not going to do it unless we are paid to do it. ---- http://www.zdnet.com/filters/printerfriendly/0,6061,2773783-35,00.html # # Unresolved Issues Dog Fed's Data-Tap Efforts # By Doug Brown, Interactive Week # June 13, 2001 8:33 AM PT # # # Rapid changes in communications technology threaten to make "a big mess" # out of the federal government's ambitious plans to weave wiretapping into # the fabric of the digital age, while a 1994 law grows increasingly # outdated. # # While parts of the 1994 Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act # (CALEA) have already been implemented by phone and other communications # carriers, important areas of the law are being disputed in courtrooms and # mulled over by bureaucrats in the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the # Federal Communications Commission. # # One unresolved issue is how to handle packet data, a technology that was # in its infancy when the law was written, but has since emerged as the # leading method for transmitting voice and data in the Internet age. # # Communications companies carrying packet data have until Sept. 30 to # demonstrate that their systems will permit law enforcement officials to # conduct wiretaps. The industry has filed requests with the FCC to extend # the deadline. The FBI argues that extensions should not be granted. # Industry representatives say they need to figure out a way to separate # the packets' header data from content before they can implement any # standards, and the technological solution to the problem could take years # to figure out. It's up to the FCC to decide how to proceed. # # "We believe the packet issue is going to be around for a long time," said # Rodney Small, an economist in the FCC's office of engineering and # technology who handles CALEA. Industry has "decided it's too expensive to # do this, and they aren't sure what the privacy implications are," Small # said. "They are getting cold feet, legally and financially. Meanwhile, # these new technologies keep developing. . . . On the packet data 'issue', # there could be more petitions and it could be a big mess." # # An industry official agreed. "You will see more lawsuits or court # challenges. You'll certainly see carriers filing extensions on packet # data deadlines," said Grant Seiffert, vice president of external affairs # and global policy at the Telecommunications Industry Association, a trade # group representing many telecommunications carriers implicated in the # CALEA regulations. "In a packet world, somebody has to open the packet to # look for the information the FBI is seeking. Is the FBI going to do it? # We're not going to do it unless we are paid to do it. Who is going to be # looking over everyone's shoulders when we open up this information?" # # As the packet data issue looms, industry and civil liberties advocates # await signals from the Bush administration about how new regulators - # particularly FCC commissioners and the new FBI director - plan to # approach government surveillance issues. The agencies' decisions could # affect the depth of the debates. # # "Congress may be re-engaged," Seiffert said. "It's sort of a wait-and-see # game right now." # # "The FBI's credibility is at an all-time low here," said Barry # Steinhardt, associate director at the American Civil Liberties Union. # "Attorney General 'John' Ashcroft in the Senate expressed skepticism # about a number of government surveillance programs." # # An FBI spokesman defended work to date, saying: "There has been # significant progress made with the implementation of CALEA," and citing # technical solutions available for wireline and wireless segments of the # telecom industry. # # Some CALEA experts question some of what the FBI has managed to implement # already, charging that the agency installed sophisticated data collection # systems in communications networks that require expensive equipment to # decipher. # # "It's close to a scandal," said Stewart Baker, an attorney and former # general counsel at the National Security Agency who has been involved # with legal challenges to CALEA. "After industry has spent all of this # money, it turns out it's generating all of this data that has to be # translated by special-purpose machines that have to be bought by local # law enforcement. This may have the effect of pricing wiretaps out of the # market for a lot of smaller jurisdictions." # # Baker also said that while CALEA is supposed to apply only to voice # communications, the FBI has been "pretty aggressive" when it delves into # the packet data realm, "trying to persuade people who build data networks # that sooner or later they will have to provide wiretap capability." # # "A year ago, when times were good, everybody leaned towards the view that # it was better to not pick a fight with the FBI," Baker said. "Now it's # less clear that people have the funds to spend on development or to # purchase this stuff, so there could be a serious conflict over this and # there is certainly a difficult question for people who are building # Internet Protocol systems." 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This is the new Communist movement in Miami and I am leading it for success. http://www.funet.fi/pub/culture/russian/voices/realaudio/international.ra The proud owner of the Soviet flag .... Markku J. Saarelainen -- Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com From alinewell at home.com Mon Jul 2 04:38:04 2001 From: alinewell at home.com (Networkers Together) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 07:38:04 -0400 Subject: With our TEAM, YOUR Selling Days are over! Message-ID: <28444200171211383940@home.com> Do you feel like you're ALONE on the NET? We have sponsors who teach you all the things that work the best and are always there for you to answer questions and help whenever you need them. If you are really SERIOUS about internet marketing and YOU want to make $6,000 in the next 30 days and $60,000 or more in the next 3 months, you can be on our winning TEAM. We'll tell you how to make $6,000 in 30 days and how to make AT LEAST $60,000 in the NEXT 3 months - WITHOUT selling, motivating, or "baby-sitting". YOU will work with QUALIFIED people who are just as committed as YOU are to succeeding without spending most of your day working online to get to the top. Click on: http://www.roibot.com/w.cgi?R39772_nms partner name: sailor Read the information and take the first step toward working with people who do THEIR part and let you do what YOU do best. Lets go to the top! Alli *************************************** -----------------------------------------------------------This email is NEVER sent unsolicited. THIS IS NOT "SPAM". You are receiving this email because you EXPLICITLY signed yourself up to our list with our online signup form or through use of our FFA Links Page and E-MailDOM systems, which have EXPLICIT terms of use which state that through its use you agree to receive our emailings. You may also be a member of a ZineDOM list or one of many numerous NetDOMINATION FREE Marketing Services and as such you agreed when you signed up for such list that you would also be receiving this emailing. Due to the above, this email message cannot be considered unsolicitated, or spam. ********************* From measl at mfn.org Mon Jul 2 05:43:06 2001 From: measl at mfn.org (measl at mfn.org) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 07:43:06 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Banned Research and Raids on "Secret Labs" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Jul 2001, Sampo Syreeni wrote: > It would be fairly interesting to hear what those health risks are. If they > refer to risks to the people doing the experiments, I can't see any beyond > what normal parenting would bring. If they instead refer to the babies being > born/built, then we're seeing one serious extension of the concept of > "unborn babies". I believe this is an unclear reference to the fact that cloned animals have a significantly shorter life expectancy than their "parent". Of course, I may be [unknowingly] regurgitating the gubmint propaganda, and therefore be totally full of shit - who knows? -- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin at mfn.org If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... -------------------------------------------------------------------- From measl at mfn.org Mon Jul 2 05:52:27 2001 From: measl at mfn.org (measl at mfn.org) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 07:52:27 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Banned Research and Raids on "Secret Labs" In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010701210046.008cdb00@pop.sprynet.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Jul 2001, David Honig wrote: > Get a grip. Any infant born is currently treated as an "individual", even > if they are accompanied by identical siblings ---identical twins are > natural clones. Actually, I have been wondering about this statement. Does anyone have any data on whether identicals carry the same fingerprints? -- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin at mfn.org If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... -------------------------------------------------------------------- From bear at sonic.net Mon Jul 2 08:13:45 2001 From: bear at sonic.net (Ray Dillinger) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 08:13:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Banned Research and Raids on "Secret Labs" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Jul 2001 measl at mfn.org wrote: >Actually, I have been wondering about this statement. Does anyone have >any data on whether identicals carry the same fingerprints? Identical siblings do not carry the same fingerprints, nor retina scans. There are also larger-scale structures like ear cartilage that are nonidentical. Bear From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jul 2 06:27:26 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 08:27:26 -0500 Subject: ScienceNet - Do identical twins have identical fingerprints ? Message-ID: <3B4076BE.B1BBDB70@ssz.com> http://www.sciencenet.org.uk/database/Biology/9609/b00598d.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jul 2 06:28:14 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 08:28:14 -0500 Subject: Forensic-Evidence: Identification Evidence - Phenotype v. Genotype: Why Identical Twins Have Different Fingerprints Message-ID: <3B4076EE.1A05B579@ssz.com> http://www.forensic-evidence.com/site/ID/ID_Twins.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From honig at sprynet.com Mon Jul 2 08:38:11 2001 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 08:38:11 -0700 Subject: Banned Research and Raids on "Secret Labs" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010702083811.007f2bf0@pop.sprynet.com> At 09:59 AM 7/2/01 +0300, Sampo Syreeni wrote: >It would be fairly interesting to hear what those health risks are. If they Fucked up babies (manufacturing defective State property). I wonder what the error threshold was for using in-vitro on Louise Brown (IIRC) when that was first tried. From measl at mfn.org Mon Jul 2 06:39:16 2001 From: measl at mfn.org (measl at mfn.org) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 08:39:16 -0500 (CDT) Subject: ScienceNet - Do identical twins have identical fingerprints ? In-Reply-To: <3B4076BE.B1BBDB70@ssz.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Jul 2001, Jim Choate wrote: > > http://www.sciencenet.org.uk/database/Biology/9609/b00598d.html Thanks! -- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin at mfn.org If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jul 2 06:39:21 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 08:39:21 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Banned Research and Raids on "Secret Labs" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Jul 2001 measl at mfn.org wrote: > I believe this is an unclear reference to the fact that cloned animals > have a significantly shorter life expectancy than their "parent". Of > course, I may be [unknowingly] regurgitating the gubmint propaganda, and > therefore be totally full of shit - who knows? They also tend to be larger than the original as well. Though there has been some progress in understanding why recently. Some other issues might be pointed at in the recent 'jellyfish monkey' experiments. Of the embryos, the only viable one didn't express the jellyfish gene, those that did - died. Take a look at Dougal Dixons 'Man After Man' book for some examples of what scares the hell out of them. A (mediocre) sci-fi book that has the social implications of 'adaptives' wended into the story is, Blueheart Alison Sinclair ISBN 0-06-105820-3 -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From honig at sprynet.com Mon Jul 2 08:48:09 2001 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 08:48:09 -0700 Subject: Automated DB searches and the 1st In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010702084809.008d2ec0@pop.sprynet.com> At 09:13 AM 7/2/01 -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > Amendment IV > >The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and >effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, >and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or >affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the >persons or things to be seized. > > >I contend that to run an automated search on a face taken by a >surveillance camera requires probable cause on each of the faces searched. >That there might be a criminal in a crowd is not sufficient probable cause >to run searches on all persons in the crowd. It violates their 'personal >security'. The counter to this perspective is that its been considered 'reasonable' to look at someone's face (in the optical) for a long time. It is not considered 'reasonable' (ergo, not constitutional in the US) to ask folks to remove their camoflage and attire, so the IVth protects citizens. Wear the groucho glasses as a protest. Whether active or passive observation using extra-optical radiation is a 'search' is currently a hot topic. (Passive, and typically civilian, observation includes checking out folks' underwear using IR sensitive cameras; Pol/mil observation includes active mm & xray irradiation and reception, and the recently disallowed passive IR observation of homes.) Would face-surveillance cams that snarfed IR and got your facial blood vessel patterns be unreasonably searching? From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jul 2 06:55:30 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 08:55:30 -0500 Subject: Alternative Zoology Message-ID: <3B407D52.5D43DAD9@ssz.com> http://www.roanoke.infi.net/~lhferree/ -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From mjs.crypto at eudoramail.com Mon Jul 2 08:55:31 2001 From: mjs.crypto at eudoramail.com (Markku Saarelainen) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 08:55:31 -0700 Subject: My friend in Kremlin Tightens Grip on Gazprom Message-ID: http://www.funet.fi/pub/culture/russian/voices/realaudio/international.ra Kremlin Tightens Grip on Gazprom By Anna Raff Staff Writer The government grabbed control of Gazprom at a annual shareholders meeting Friday by securing a majority on the board of directors, a move that sets the stage for rapid and long-awaited reforms at the unwieldy gas giant. Government officials won six out of the 11 seats on Gazprom's board. Three seats went to company management, while Burkhard Bergmann, vice president of Germany's Ruhrgas, kept his seat, as did Boris Fyodorov, the outspoken representative of minority shareholders. The meeting also voted to effectively hand the government the power to fire the Gazprom chief executive, amending company bylaws to require only a simple board majority to force the CEO's departure. A unanimous board vote was previously required. http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2001/07/02/001.html Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jul 2 06:56:30 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 08:56:30 -0500 Subject: Man After Man Message-ID: <3B407D8E.B4986EE8@ssz.com> http://www.ansible.demon.co.uk/writing/afterman.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From honig at sprynet.com Mon Jul 2 09:02:02 2001 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 09:02:02 -0700 Subject: Banned Research and Raids on "Secret Labs" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010702090202.008d5420@pop.sprynet.com> At 11:00 AM 7/2/01 -0400, Trei, Peter wrote: >> >Cloning is far from a perfected technology - dozens of embryos are started >for >each one that comes to term, Actually this is true for most artificial fertilization techniques ---that's why they implant multiple embroyos, they expect a few to die. and many that are born have severe defects and >die young. A lot that don't die young are pretty darn unhealthy in various >ways. Of course, this is true for natural conception, where a lot of embroyos are resorbed, probably because they're fatal mutants. >The State has problems (heck - I have problems too!) with applying this >technology at a point in development where *most* of the resulting people >are likely to have severe physical and mental defects. Unlike animals, >you can't just slaughter the ones that don't work out. Bingo. >OTOH, the fact the State chose to stop a religious organization brings >chilling memories of Waco - "Is your religion FDA approved?". Yes. My earlier comments on just how wacky the religion is was not meant to minimize the fed visit. >then I have no problem with human cloning. Until then, I'd rather people >did not try it (though, unlike the State, I would not stop them). Agreed. Query: So if you were on the jury of a kid suing his rogue cloners for his defects, how would you decide? Would the religious aspect affect your judgement of liability? Criminal and/or civil liability? Can grown kids sue if they find their mother drank/smoke/snorted/etc and had reason to believe this bad? From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jul 2 07:07:29 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 09:07:29 -0500 Subject: Slashdot | The Dangers Of Protecting Free Speech Message-ID: <3B408021.512A9B4A@ssz.com> http://slashdot.org/yro/01/07/02/1221209.shtml -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jul 2 07:13:20 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 09:13:20 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Automated DB searches and the 1st Message-ID: Amendment IV The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. I contend that to run an automated search on a face taken by a surveillance camera requires probable cause on each of the faces searched. That there might be a criminal in a crowd is not sufficient probable cause to run searches on all persons in the crowd. It violates their 'personal security'. -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jul 2 07:41:11 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 09:41:11 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Banned Research and Raids on "Secret Labs" In-Reply-To: <20010702101201.A5531@cluebot.com> Message-ID: > > On Sun, 1 Jul 2001, David Honig wrote: > > > > > Get a grip. Any infant born is currently treated as an "individual", even > > > if they are accompanied by identical siblings ---identical twins are > > > natural clones. All children are 'natural' clones (as if one could have an unnatural anything - creepy religous zealotry that), the only question is what percentage. Identical twins are 100% identical 'clones' but only 50% identical clones with each parent (and 25% for each grandparent). The entire 'clone' issue is nothing more than muddy religous thinking. -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From mjs.crypto at eudoramail.com Mon Jul 2 09:46:08 2001 From: mjs.crypto at eudoramail.com (Markku Saarelainen) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 09:46:08 -0700 Subject: Iran and Iraq has a common enemy: Jews Message-ID: Iran and Iraq has a common enemy: Jews ...... I believe that Iran and Iraq should unite against Jews and attack ... Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jul 2 07:47:44 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 09:47:44 -0500 Subject: Quantum Mechanics' New Horizons Message-ID: <3B408990.1900418A@ssz.com> http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,44891,00.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jul 2 07:53:28 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 09:53:28 -0500 Subject: NEWS - Cause & Effect? Message-ID: <3B408AE8.47D9AADC@ssz.com> I've always said most people have no real understanding of 'cause and effect'... http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/20010602091304data_trunc_sys.shtml -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jul 2 07:55:24 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 09:55:24 -0500 Subject: OPT: Linux Today - NYTimes: The Land of Monopolies Message-ID: <3B408B5C.2914F628@ssz.com> http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-07-01-011-21-OP-MS -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From decoy at iki.fi Sun Jul 1 23:59:18 2001 From: decoy at iki.fi (Sampo Syreeni) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 09:59:18 +0300 (EEST) Subject: Banned Research and Raids on "Secret Labs" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Jul 2001, Tim May wrote: >Despite warnings from scientists who say such practices are fraught with >potential health risks, some Raelians have built a secret U.S. laboratory >and vowed to create the first human clone this year. It would be fairly interesting to hear what those health risks are. If they refer to risks to the people doing the experiments, I can't see any beyond what normal parenting would bring. If they instead refer to the babies being born/built, then we're seeing one serious extension of the concept of "unborn babies". The GE scare has religious morality, ignorance and fear of the unknown written all over it. >Food and Drug Administration agents visited the lab recently and ordered >any human cloning experiments to cease. Makes one wonder whether babies are Food or Drug. Just as one has a hard time telling which one religious sects are, Alcohol, Tobacco or Firearms. >Oooh, scary! A "secret lab"! What, all labs are supposed to be public, >registering with the government? (There is no evidence the lab is using >more dangerous chemicals than are normally found in any hardware store, >for example, so "public safety" cannot be a justification.) But see, once they've done with cloning, they'll crave for more. Soon they'll be doing gene splicing and whatnot. Then we'll have a swarm of newly born \bermenschen running around, wreaking havoc. The final days are coming, there will be Judgment... >Is there no consideration of common sense, or are prosecutors just >flunkouts in science who can't separate speech acts from actual violations >of the law? Actually I think the law prohibits research targeted at cloning in addition to cloning itself. All the same, it's bad law. >The issue of whether human cloning research is so intrinsically sensitive >or dangerous that it requires preemptive raids and fishing expeditions is >a topic worth discussing. The hysteria surrounding gene manipulation is weird all over. I've never even seen proper assessments of threats beyond the problems created by large monocultures of genetically engineered plant species, the effects on third world economies of patented crops and allergic reactions to unexpected foreign proteines in foodstuffs. This is hardly the sort of stuff to cause one to reach for the gun, and could be dealt with on the market. The only real threat I can see in cloning humans is the risk of fucking the baby up for good, and somehow it is quite difficult to see a) how that would happen if you're just doing a competent clone job and b) how one justifies preemption of the research since the mistakes have yet to be made. ><and a physician trying to resurrect an 11-month-old infant-the deceased >son of a former state legislator, whom the Raelians refuse to >identify-through genetic regeneration.>> "Resurrect"? That is one serious piece of loaded lingo -- the next thing they'll be doing now is slipping in spiritual advice. ><< Even if a law were passed in the United States, it could prove >difficult to enforce because cloning operations are easy to hide. It seems that they're making scientists into the bad guys. Science flunkouts indeed, having a fit of envy. They really should understand that in a free country, researchers have no reason to explicitly hide their operations, or to sneak around cloning babies. "Are you, or have you ever been, a Biologist?" Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy, mailto:decoy at iki.fi, gsm: +358-50-5756111 student/math+cs/helsinki university, http://www.iki.fi/~decoy/front From declan at well.com Mon Jul 2 07:12:01 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 10:12:01 -0400 Subject: Banned Research and Raids on "Secret Labs" In-Reply-To: ; from measl@mfn.org on Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 07:52:27AM -0500 References: <3.0.6.32.20010701210046.008cdb00@pop.sprynet.com> Message-ID: <20010702101201.A5531@cluebot.com> Why not do a search? http://www.google.com/search?q=identical+twins+matching+fingerprints -Declan On Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 07:52:27AM -0500, measl at mfn.org wrote: > On Sun, 1 Jul 2001, David Honig wrote: > > > Get a grip. Any infant born is currently treated as an "individual", even > > if they are accompanied by identical siblings ---identical twins are > > natural clones. > > Actually, I have been wondering about this statement. Does anyone have > any data on whether identicals carry the same fingerprints? > > -- > Yours, > J.A. Terranson > sysadmin at mfn.org > > If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they > should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: > Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of > unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in > the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and > elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire > populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... > This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States > as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. > > The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, > associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of > those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the > first place... > -------------------------------------------------------------------- From declan at well.com Mon Jul 2 07:13:31 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 10:13:31 -0400 Subject: Jim Choate is a boob In-Reply-To: <200107020543.BAA06235@www3.aa.psiweb.com>; from George@Orwellian.Org on Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 01:43:53AM -0400 References: <200107020543.BAA06235@www3.aa.psiweb.com> Message-ID: <20010702101331.B5531@cluebot.com> This Subject: line is a trifle redundant. -Declan On Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 01:43:53AM -0400, George at Orwellian.Org wrote: > %From: Jim Choate > %Subject: Tampabay: Ybor police cameras go spy-tech > # http://www.sptimes.com/News/063001/TampaBay/Ybor_police_cameras_g.shtml > > Listen, dodo, that was the main link in the > slashdot article you linked to. > > Aren't you even reading the stuff you're posting here? From mjs.crypto at eudoramail.com Mon Jul 2 10:16:20 2001 From: mjs.crypto at eudoramail.com (Markku Saarelainen) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 10:16:20 -0700 Subject: USA IS TYRANNY Message-ID: When Chirac says .. this is the victory of law over tyranny ... let me tell you my story .. THE US GOVERNMENT ATTACKED ME, STOLE MY HOUSE, STOLE 70K USD AND HURT ME, ALTHOUGH I HAD NEVER DONE ENYTHING WRONG, BAD OR ILLEGAL .. ONLY COMMUNICATE ON THE INTERNET ... U.S GOVERNMENT IS CRIMINAL, TYRANNY AND VIOLENT ... I HATE THE USA ..... AND BY THE WAY .. WHY DO YOU NOT PUT THOSE VIETNAM WAR PEOPLE TO THE TRIAL WHO KILLED INNOCENT PEOPLE IN VIETNAM AND COMMITTED WAR CRIMES ... WHY WHY AND ONCE MORE WHY .... USA JUST KILLS PEOPLE ... ! -------- Jacques Chirac, who was also at the press conference. "This is a victory of law over violence, of democracy over tyranny. It sounds hope for justice and freedom in the world," he said. Western leaders have all hailed the Serbian government's move to hand over Milosevic to the international court, with the decision unlocking more than $1bn in international aid. http://www.rte.ie/news/2001/0702/yugoslavia.html Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com From ptrei at rsasecurity.com Mon Jul 2 07:18:02 2001 From: ptrei at rsasecurity.com (Trei, Peter) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 10:18:02 -0400 Subject: World's smallest engine Message-ID: Great, an micro Wankel engine. Did anyone else share my first thought, that this would be just right as the power source for a laptop version of Babbage's Analytical Engine? (My second thought was that an itty-bitty steam engine would be more appropriate). I wonder what the limiting factor would be? I suspect that the cube/squared law is involved - as the parts get smaller they cool down too quickly to operate as an engine. Peter Trei > Subject: World's smallest engine > > Way cool tiny rotary engine for powering computers, > whatever. > > http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2001/04/02_engin.html > > -- > Harmon Seaver, MLIS From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jul 2 08:39:18 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 10:39:18 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Crypto Quotations (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 16:44:46 -0500 From: Udhay Shankar N To: cryptography at wasabisystems.com Subject: Crypto Quotations Some light(?) reading... http://www.amk.ca/quotations/cryptography/page-1.html Udhay _____________________________________________________________________ Udhay Shankar N Iponics India Pvt Ltd http://www.iponics.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ptrei at rsasecurity.com Mon Jul 2 08:00:36 2001 From: ptrei at rsasecurity.com (Trei, Peter) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:00:36 -0400 Subject: Banned Research and Raids on "Secret Labs" Message-ID: > From: Sampo Syreeni[SMTP:decoy at iki.fi] > > > On Sun, 1 Jul 2001, Tim May wrote: > > >Despite warnings from scientists who say such practices are fraught with > >potential health risks, some Raelians have built a secret U.S. laboratory > >and vowed to create the first human clone this year. > > It would be fairly interesting to hear what those health risks are. If > they > refer to risks to the people doing the experiments, I can't see any beyond > what normal parenting would bring. If they instead refer to the babies > being > born/built, then we're seeing one serious extension of the concept of > "unborn babies". The GE scare has religious morality, ignorance and fear > of > the unknown written all over it. > Cloning is far from a perfected technology - dozens of embryos are started for each one that comes to term, and many that are born have severe defects and die young. A lot that don't die young are pretty darn unhealthy in various ways. The State has problems (heck - I have problems too!) with applying this technology at a point in development where *most* of the resulting people are likely to have severe physical and mental defects. Unlike animals, you can't just slaughter the ones that don't work out. OTOH, the fact the State chose to stop a religious organization brings chilling memories of Waco - "Is your religion FDA approved?". A lot of the rhetoric seems to be on the level of 'this is just soooo creepy'. It's worth remembering that the boundary of what's acceptable moves - back in the 60's Britain banned cornea transplants from cadavers, essentially for creepyness reasons (since repealed). When cloning has a high success rate, and embryos which are going to have problems after birth can be identified and culled at an early stage, then I have no problem with human cloning. Until then, I'd rather people did not try it (though, unlike the State, I would not stop them). Peter Trei From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jul 2 09:22:55 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:22:55 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Automated DB searches and the 1st In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010702084809.008d2ec0@pop.sprynet.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Jul 2001, David Honig wrote: > The counter to this perspective is that its been considered 'reasonable' to > look at someone's face (in the optical) for a long time. It is not > considered 'reasonable' > (ergo, not constitutional in the US) to ask folks to remove their camoflage > and attire, so the IVth protects citizens. Wear the groucho glasses as a > protest. It is only 'reasonable' if you have probably cause. Let's take the example of the cop standing on the corner with a photograph (obstensibly the same as computer searches). That photo is of a particular person who has particular characteristics. Let's assume for the sake of argument that the person in the photo is a white, blonde, male. The police officer isn't going to stop blacks, hispanics, women, children, etc. However, the automated system does exactly this. They are not searching for a 'particular person' as required by the 4th, they are searching everyone for instances in the police records. Clearly non-conformal to the wording of the 4th. -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ptrei at rsasecurity.com Mon Jul 2 08:27:28 2001 From: ptrei at rsasecurity.com (Trei, Peter) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:27:28 -0400 Subject: Misc Message-ID: > From: George at Orwellian.Org[SMTP:George at Orwellian.Org] [...] > Found a lot of weird stuff while searching. > [...] > The Unix Haters Handbook > http://catalog.com/hopkins/unix-haters/login.html > [...] > I've got a copy of the book - it's actually a fairly well-written critique of Un*x worship (pre-Linux). It's worth reading to get some perspective (and no, it's not pro-MS either - it's idea of a competing OS is VMS). Peter Trei From alqaeda at hq.org Mon Jul 2 11:31:40 2001 From: alqaeda at hq.org (Alfred Qaeda) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 11:31:40 -0700 Subject: Anarchist Golfing Association Message-ID: <3B40BE0C.9FCB54D1@hq.org> oooh, oooh, domestic terrorism, squirt squirt July 1, 2001 S.U.V.'s, Golf, Even Peas Join Eco-Vandals' Hit List By SAM HOWE VERHOVEK EATTLE, June 30 The fire at Joe Romania Chevrolet in Eugene, Ore., started just before 2:45 one morning in the spring. Nearly 30 Chevrolet Suburbans and Tahoes were destroyed in the blaze, the second time in nine months that vehicles in the dealership's sport-utility lot had been set afire. The fire at Ray A. Schoppert Logging Inc., in Eagle Creek, Ore., also occurred between 2 and 3 a.m. This one, on June 1, near the site of a disputed timber sale in a federal forest, burned three logging trucks. Sometime in the night of June 10, someone broke into a research farm owned by Seminis Inc., near Twin Falls, Idaho, and ripped out hundreds of genetically altered pea plants. These incidents share more than the fact that none has resulted in an arrest. All three appear to be part of what federal authorities describe as a growing pattern of eco-sabotage, or vandalism, that its anonymous perpetrators claim to have carried out in defense of the environment. Many of these attacks, which the authorities say are especially prevalent here in the Pacific Northwest, are relatively small-scale and fail to attract much attention. Many go unreported, for the companies involved are often reluctant to generate publicity that might make them a target all over again. But even if less noticed than major acts of eco-sabotage like the recent fire at a University of Washington genetics research laboratory, the vandalism has quietly reshaped life for many small businesses, forcing a need for safety measures that would have once been unthinkable. "We've had to beef up security so it looks like a prison around our greenhouses," said Crystal Fricker, president of Pure-Seed Testing Company in Canby, Ore., which grows all kinds of grass seed. The company installed a chain-link fence with razor wire, motion sensors and an alarm system after vandals broke into greenhouses on its 110-acre property last June. The intruders destroyed several research projects, stomped on the grass, spray-painted slogans like "Nature bites back" and left behind golf balls marked with the letter A, the international anarchists' symbol. Pure-Seed was apparently singled out because of its experiments with a genetically modified form of grass that could be used for putting greens on golf courses. A few days after the incident, an e- mail message from a sender identifying itself as the Anarchist Golfing Association claimed responsibility for the vandalism, which caused roughly $500,000 in damage. "Grass, like industrial culture, is invasive and permeates every aspect of our lives," the message said. "While the golf trade journals claim that `golf courses provide suitable habitat for wildlife,' we see them as a destroyer of all things wild." http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/01/national/01ECO.html?pagewanted=all From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jul 2 10:05:29 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 12:05:29 -0500 Subject: The Register - Verified: you can get anybody you want kicked off Hotmail Message-ID: <3B40A9D9.ABA4316E@ssz.com> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/20106.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jul 2 10:11:38 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 12:11:38 -0500 Subject: The Atlanta Journal-Constitution Message-ID: <3B40AB4A.524D62E@ssz.com> http://www.accessatlanta.com/partners/ajc/epaper/editions/today/business_b3048022d12c103b0034.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From info at giganetstore.com Mon Jul 2 04:18:10 2001 From: info at giganetstore.com (info at giganetstore.com) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 12:18:10 +0100 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Redes_em_casa_e_no_escrit=F3rio?= Message-ID: <007f61118110271WWWSHOPENS@wwwshopens.giganetstore.com> Comunica癟瓊o com e/ou sem fios entre os seus PC織s Mais uma vez a giganetstore.com vem disponibiliza-lhe uma linha de produtos que poder瓊o optimnizar as comunica癟繭es entre os seus PC織s em casa e no escrit籀rio. Placa de Rede Adaptec SCSI 32 Bit 18.900 ($) Poupe 21% Card Bus 32 Bit 49.900 ($) Poupe 20% Airport Base Station 89.900 ($) Poupe 11% Compact Card 39.900 ($) Poupe 12% para retirar o seu email desta mailing list dever獺 entrar no nosso site http:\\www.giganetstore.com , ir edi癟瓊o do seu registo e retirar a op癟瓊o de receber informa癟瓊o acerca das nossas promo癟繭es e novos servi癟os. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 6041 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jul 2 10:20:18 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 12:20:18 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Press Release List] IBM and Zero-Knowledge Systems: A shared Vision For Privacy (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 19:42:08 -0400 From: "R. A. Hettinga" To: Digital Bearer Settlement List , dcsb at ai.mit.edu, e$@vmeng.com, cryptography at wasabisystems.com, mac-crypto at vmeng.com Subject: [Press Release List] IBM and Zero-Knowledge Systems: A shared Vision For Privacy --- begin forwarded text From 1.10198689.-13 at multexinvestornetwork.com Mon Jul 2 09:26:02 2001 From: 1.10198689.-13 at multexinvestornetwork.com (Multex Investor) Date: 2 Jul 2001 12:26:02 -0400 Subject: Win $25,000 in the Multex Investor Challenge! Message-ID: <0d1210226160271MINLIST1@multexinvestornetwork.com> ********************************************************************* As a registered Multex Investor member, we will occasionally contact you with special opportunities. To unsubscribe to this or any other exclusive offers, please see the bottom of this message. ********************************************************************* Dear Multex Investor Member, The Multex Investor Challenge is gearing up for the Summer Edition. 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You may also unsubscribe on the account update page at: http://www.multexinvestor.com/edituinfo.asp =================================================================== Please email advertising inquiries to us at: mailto:advertise at multex.com. From jd at fbi.gov Mon Jul 2 12:41:49 2001 From: jd at fbi.gov (John Doe #2) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 12:41:49 -0700 Subject: Iran and Iraq has a common enemy Message-ID: <3B40CE7D.23D1EE46@fbi.gov> At 09:46 AM 7/2/01 -0700, Markku Saarelainen wrote: > >Iran and Iraq has a common enemy: Jews ...... I believe that Iran and Iraq should unite against Jews and attack ... What an original geopolitical thinker you are, Mr S. Brilliant. What is the arabic for Trinitite? Keep your KI close by... Remember McVeigh was crucified (albeit horizontally) for your sins... From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jul 2 10:43:08 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 12:43:08 -0500 (CDT) Subject: OPT: Austin Cypherpunks - July Physical Meet Message-ID: Time: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 Second Tuesday of each month 7:00 - 9:00 pm (or later) Location: Central Market HEB Cafe 38th and N. Lamar Weather permitting we meet in the un-covered tables. If it's inclimate but not overly cold we meet in the outside covered section. Otherwise look for us inside the building proper. Identification: Look for the group with the "Applied Cryptography" book. It will have a red cover and is about 2 in. thick. Contact Info: http://einstein.ssz.com/cdr/index.html#austincpunks -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jul 2 11:18:45 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 13:18:45 -0500 Subject: CNN.com - Data hub aims to unclog Latin American jam - July 2, 2001 Message-ID: <3B40BB05.2381B467@ssz.com> http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/internet/07/02/latam.hub.idg/index.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. 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Christina From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jul 2 13:09:13 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 15:09:13 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [alg] OPT: Cryptography Quotations, page 1 of 2 (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 14:56:41 -0500 From: Mick Reply-To: alg at austinlug.org To: alg at austinlug.org Subject: Re: [alg] OPT: Cryptography Quotations, page 1 of 2 * Jim Choate [010702 13:13]: > http://www.amk.ca/quotations/cryptography/page-1.html Munged this into a small fortune file if anyone wants it. http://global-enforcement.com/t00lz/crypto.fortune -- -Mick-too_much_time_on_his_hands OpenPGP info is in the X-.* mail headers -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: URL: From hmt at gncom.com Mon Jul 2 13:17:08 2001 From: hmt at gncom.com (Harry Tod) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 16:17:08 -0400 Subject: screen name Message-ID: <3B40D6C4.5FF0D370@gncom.com> Please send me the name I used as a screen name, in my July 2,2001 registration, thank you, Harry Tod From Eugene.Leitl at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Mon Jul 2 07:27:11 2001 From: Eugene.Leitl at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Eugene Leitl) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 16:27:11 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: World's smallest engine In-Reply-To: <"F504A8CEE925D411AF4A00508B8BE90A01E907FA@exna07.securityd yn amics.com"> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Jul 2001, Trei, Peter wrote: > I wonder what the limiting factor would be? I suspect that the > cube/squared law is involved - as the parts get smaller they cool down > too quickly to operate as an engine. My bets are the Sandia folks will be there first, with their (whether SOS or plain silicon) MEMS microturbine generator. I think they mentioned they hoped to scale power density beyond 30 W in a cm^3 volume. Otoh, such technology is prime candidate for powering military hardware in the field, so maybe perhaps that's why they suddenly went mum on it. -- Eugen* Leitl leitl ______________________________________________________________ ICBMTO : N48 10'07'' E011 33'53'' http://www.lrz.de/~ui22204 57F9CFD3: ED90 0433 EB74 E4A9 537F CFF5 86E7 629B 57F9 CFD3 From tcmay at got.net Mon Jul 2 17:23:02 2001 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 17:23:02 -0700 Subject: Tampa using cameras to scan for wanted faces-- In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 6:52 PM -0500 7/2/01, Aimee Farr wrote: >Visionic's FaceIt was just successfully tested on ViA's wearable computer. > >------------------------------------------------- >I asked this question elsewhere a few days ago... >------------------------------------------------- > >Biometric data is electronic code that is separate and distinct from >personal information. > >[ ] T >[ ] F > >Explain your answer: > One reason I mostly ignore you is this habit of never writing readable essays, just either blithering incoherently or asking others to answer "test questions." (I dip into the Trash folder every few weeks just to see if you've been visited by the Clue Fairy. Not yet.) --Tim May -- Timothy C. May tcmay at got.net Corralitos, California Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jul 2 15:34:48 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 17:34:48 -0500 Subject: CNN.com - 'Song of Solomon' spurs debate - June 29, 2001 Message-ID: <3B40F708.5F8CD8C9@ssz.com> http://fyi.cnn.com/2001/fyi/teachers.ednews/06/29/song.of.solomon.ap/index.html If kids don't come to grips with this sort of stuff as kids, how does anyone excpect them to handle it as adults? -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jul 2 15:55:31 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 17:55:31 -0500 Subject: CNN.com - Milosevic to face U.N. court alone - July 2, 2001 Message-ID: <3B40FBE3.94509F77@ssz.com> http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/07/02/milosevic.trial/index.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From kamal_d_jain at yahoo.com Mon Jul 2 18:08:59 2001 From: kamal_d_jain at yahoo.com (Kamal Jain) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 18:08:59 Subject: Win a free Luxury Cruise with your family Message-ID: <200107021222.f62CMdx07457@ak47.algebra.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 6002 bytes Desc: not available URL: From k.brown at ccs.bbk.ac.uk Mon Jul 2 10:25:27 2001 From: k.brown at ccs.bbk.ac.uk (Ken Brown) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 18:25:27 +0100 Subject: What's up with cyberpass? References: Message-ID: <3B40AE87.E582A697@ccs.bbk.ac.uk> I'm getting readable mail from both lne and cyberpass. Ken Brown "Trei, Peter" wrote: > > For a few days now, a growing (and now 100) > percentage of my cpunks email has consisted > of blank messages from > owner at cypherpunks.cyberpass.net > > >From the number and time distribution of the > messages, I suspect I'm getting one for each > posting to cypherpunks. > > Am I the only one who is seeing this? > > (Reply directly, since I'm not getting > intelligable mail from the list). > > thanks, > > Peter Trei > ptrei at rsasecurity.com From aimee.farr at pobox.com Mon Jul 2 16:52:00 2001 From: aimee.farr at pobox.com (Aimee Farr) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 18:52:00 -0500 Subject: Tampa using cameras to scan for wanted faces-- In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Visionic's FaceIt was just successfully tested on ViA's wearable computer. ------------------------------------------------- I asked this question elsewhere a few days ago... ------------------------------------------------- Biometric data is electronic code that is separate and distinct from personal information. [ ] T [ ] F Explain your answer: ~Aimee From tsuruta at insi.co.jp Mon Jul 2 03:26:45 2001 From: tsuruta at insi.co.jp (Masafumi Tsuruta) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 19:26:45 +0900 Subject: About replay attck to RADIUS. Message-ID: <004301c102e1$7f1c1ad0$8300a8c0@tsuruta> Hello all. I have a question about RADIUS, including portmaster, especially authentication system. How RADIUS system protects his system and user's information from sniffers when the NAS sends some information including user's password which has eccrypted with MD5. I want to know the system against "replay attack" from attackers. If you vave any infomation about my question, please tell me. Thank you. Masafumi Tsuruta (from Tokyo) tsuruta at insi.co.jp From FrogRemailer at NoReply.Invalid.com Mon Jul 2 12:27:22 2001 From: FrogRemailer at NoReply.Invalid.com (Frog2) Date: 2 Jul 2001 19:27:22 -0000 Subject: Iran and Iraq has a common enemy: Jews Message-ID: <0874D3DI37074.8940046296@frog.nyarlatheotep.org> Markku Saarelainen wrote: > > > Iran and Iraq has a common enemy: Jews ...... I believe that > Iran and Iraq should unite against Jews and attack ... > \|||/ (o o) |~~~~ooO~~(_)~~~~~~~| | Please | | don't feed the | | TROLL's ! | '~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Ooo~~' |__|__| || || ooO Ooo From 8y285844 at ms22.tisnet.net.tw Mon Jul 2 04:54:11 2001 From: 8y285844 at ms22.tisnet.net.tw (Ruby) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 19:54:11 +0800 Subject: =?big5?B?p+Sko6jsvdCmXsLQ?= Message-ID: <001c01c102ed$b8232420$b0bddf8b@oemcomputer> ∠雯蝡曆啗閬 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 331 bytes Desc: not available URL: From aimee.farr at pobox.com Mon Jul 2 17:56:15 2001 From: aimee.farr at pobox.com (Aimee Farr) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 19:56:15 -0500 Subject: Tampa using cameras to scan for wanted faces-- In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tim's C&D letter: > At 6:52 PM -0500 7/2/01, Aimee Farr wrote: > >Visionic's FaceIt was just successfully tested on ViA's wearable > computer. > > > >------------------------------------------------- > >I asked this question elsewhere a few days ago... > >------------------------------------------------- > > > >Biometric data is electronic code that is separate and distinct from > >personal information. > > > >[ ] T > >[ ] F > > > >Explain your answer: > > > > One reason I mostly ignore you is this habit of never writing > readable essays, just either blithering incoherently or asking others > to answer "test questions." That is quoting the biometric industry's policy position. When I ask that question, most people usually turn to the question of 'what is personal information,'or call it a "trick question." The comments are often illuminating, in light of the fact this is the biometric industry's policy statement. If I was to merely ask: "do you agree with the biometric industry that...." I would not come by the insight I was after, or the analysis. It "loads the question." So, I posed the question from an oblique. > (I dip into the Trash folder every few weeks just to see if you've > been visited by the Clue Fairy. Not yet.) I see you haven't been visited by the Fed Fairy. Not yet. Put a bullet under your pillow. ~Aimee From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jul 2 18:09:23 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 20:09:23 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Tampa using cameras to scan for wanted faces-- In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Jul 2001, Aimee Farr wrote: > Visionic's FaceIt was just successfully tested on ViA's wearable computer. > > ------------------------------------------------- > I asked this question elsewhere a few days ago... > ------------------------------------------------- > > Biometric data is electronic code that is separate and distinct from > personal information. > > [ ] T > [ ] F > > Explain your answer: Neither. The wording of the question indicates a deep ignorance of data conversion and data set analysis. I suggest a good study course in A/D data conversion techniques as well as statistical correlation analysis. "Biometric Data" is the conversion of analog parameters converted to digital data and stored. It is used under the premise that by applying yet another algorithm (as opposed to the data conversion mechanism) the 1-to-1 correspondance between data set and individual can be proven. -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From plgn2001 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 2 20:24:18 2001 From: plgn2001 at yahoo.com (plgn2001 at yahoo.com) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 20:24:18 Subject: FLORIDA BEACH HOME FOR $129.95 ?? Message-ID: <200107030135.UAA19608@einstein.ssz.com> Florida Beach home $129 To see how you can receive a three bedroom, 2 bath, Octa-structure beach home, click here. From nobody at dizum.com Mon Jul 2 11:30:09 2001 From: nobody at dizum.com (Nomen Nescio) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 20:30:09 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Iran and Iraq has a common enemy: Jews Message-ID: <7d7bcd0cb8d2545859c5e093dd697001@dizum.com> Markku Saarelainen wrote: > > > Iran and Iraq has a common enemy: Jews ...... I believe that > Iran and Iraq should unite against Jews and attack ... > \|||/ (o o) |~~~~ooO~~(_)~~~~~~~| | Please | | don't feed the | | TROLL's ! | '~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Ooo~~' |__|__| || || ooO Ooo From aimee.farr at pobox.com Mon Jul 2 18:46:58 2001 From: aimee.farr at pobox.com (Aimee Farr) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 20:46:58 -0500 Subject: Tampa using cameras to scan for wanted faces-- In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Choate: > > Visionic's FaceIt was just successfully tested on ViA's > wearable computer. > > > > ------------------------------------------------- > > I asked this question elsewhere a few days ago... > > ------------------------------------------------- > > > > Biometric data is electronic code that is separate and distinct from > > personal information. > > > > [ ] T > > [ ] F > > > > Explain your answer: > > Neither. The wording of the question indicates a deep ignorance of data > conversion and data set analysis. I suggest a good study course in A/D > data conversion techniques as well as statistical correlation analysis. Tell http://www.ibia.org/privacy.htm that. > "Biometric Data" is the conversion of analog parameters converted to > digital data and stored. It is used under the premise that by applying yet > another algorithm (as opposed to the data conversion mechanism) the 1-to-1 > correspondance between data set and individual can be proven. See? It worked on Choate. Yeah, I know... ~Aimee From keyser-soze at hushmail.com Mon Jul 2 21:52:04 2001 From: keyser-soze at hushmail.com (keyser-soze at hushmail.com) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 20:52:04 -0800 (PDT) Subject: Tampa using cameras to scan for wanted faces-- Message-ID: <200107030354.UAA13383@user5.hushmail.com> On Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 09:26:12PM -0400, George at Orwellian.Org wrote: > Someone is Usenet wants to hassle the cameras > with paintball guns. This might be a good activity to introduce anonymous betting pools. Non- lethal, not too controversial and close enough to home to matter. ks Free, encrypted, secure Web-based email at www.hushmail.com From George at Orwellian.Org Mon Jul 2 18:14:15 2001 From: George at Orwellian.Org (George at Orwellian.Org) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 21:14:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Tampa using cameras to scan for wanted faces-- Message-ID: <200107030114.VAA27351@www9.aa.psiweb.com> So, how extensive is the database? Just locals? If the person was never arrested, do they use DMV photos? http://www.baynews9.com/newsstory.asp?storyname=2001/June/30/ybor # # YBOR CAMERA FOLLOW UP # # Monday, July 2, 2001 In a follow up to a story we brought you # about new surveillance cameras in Ybor City, Bay News 9 would # like to apologize for an error in the on-line script. # # Police, using pole-mounted, remotely-controlled surveillance # cameras, can now scan crowds of people and feed their digital # images into a databank with the purpose of finding a match on # anyone with an outstanding arrest warrant. # # In our original report, Bay News 9 inaccurately reported that # the Visionics Corporation maintained the database. # # According to the company, the database is maintained by the # Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office and Tampa Police Department # and only contains images of those wanted on outstanding warrants. # # We apologize and regret the error. ---- Declan, how did you find the Tampa story? From juicy at melontraffickers.com Mon Jul 2 21:19:01 2001 From: juicy at melontraffickers.com (A. Melon) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 21:19:01 -0700 Subject: Prying Eyes Message-ID: Paint ball guns are too big and noticeable. Anyone have any ideas on a high powered squirt gun in a small concealable package -- like maybe CO2 powered from the same little powerlets they use for paint ball, feeding a tank in a fanny pack, up a flex tube in your sleeve to a nozzle in your hand. Shooting a fine stream allows easy aim correction, and you could even use the thing inside buildings more easily. Make it all plastic if possible, so to evade metal dectors. Could also fill tank with DMSO and nicotene and have a deadly weapon. Or just a knockout weapon. From inspiration at vsnl.net Mon Jul 2 08:55:00 2001 From: inspiration at vsnl.net (Fountain Of Joy) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 21:25:00 +0530 (IST) Subject: Thought-A-Day Message-ID: <20010702155500.04C3D17DE3@mmb1.vsnl.net.in> God,grant me the strength to change that which I need to change,the patience to accept that which I can not change, and above all, the wisdom to know the difference. --St Francis Of Assisi ********************************************************************************** Your name has been recommended to receive thoughts of wisdom from Fountain of Joy. These thoughts will be delivered, free of cost, to your desktop,everyday, for an initial evaluation period. We believe that the meaningful insights of these carefully selected thoughts will make your life peaceful,successful & happy in a way you had never imagined before. However, if you desire to unsubscribe, reply to this email with 'remove' in the subject line. ----Director, Fountain of Joy From George at Orwellian.Org Mon Jul 2 18:26:12 2001 From: George at Orwellian.Org (George at Orwellian.Org) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 21:26:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Tampa using cameras to scan for wanted faces-- Message-ID: <200107030126.VAA23573@www0.aa.psiweb.com> Someone is Usenet wants to hassle the cameras with paintball guns. ---- http://www.baynews9.com/newsstory.asp?storyname=2001/June/30/ybor # # Orwell wrote 1984 warning for Britain. It is truly spooky how close he # was to the truth, though a bit late in the time frame. # # No one expected it to apply, too, to America. Yet, here it is. It is # far more sinister than people realize. As one reader already mentioned # in one thread: " this can readily be used for people carrying guns." # That, and the identification of members of the NRA, JPFO, GOA, North # Caucus, CCOPS, RKBA, and instant notification of the street cop in the # vicinity, and we have a far more THOROUGH Tyranny than even the North # Caucus envisioned when it began warning the people and government some # years ago. # # Our question, this time: "how accurate are paint guns? Seriously. # Could a # good shot peg these cameras from the street below?" We have similar # cameras # in a towns in Georgia, watching traffic for people running stop # lights. How long before those cameras are silently hooked into this # network for face recognition? # # It's time for civil disobedience. # 1) Arm yourselves in anticipation of a governmental advance on your # firearms. # 2) Get paint gun specialists to try these cameras. # 3) WARN the governments, local, state and national, that we won't stay # put # for such tyranny as they envision. # Our warning: # http://www.geocities.com/north_caucus [ an extremely alarmed over gun rights site ] # # Ben Waldo # North Caucus of America # Florida Section From rick at nationalserviceco.com Mon Jul 2 21:26:41 2001 From: rick at nationalserviceco.com (Rick) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 21:26:41 Subject: FREE ELECTRICITY for homes Message-ID: <200107030428.f634SIx07019@ak47.algebra.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent in compliance of the new e-mail bill: SECTION 301. Per section 301, Paragraph (a)(2)(C) of S. 1618, Further transmissions to you by the sender of this email may be stopped at no cost to you by sending a reply to this email address with the word "remove" in the subject line. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Are you interested in FREE ELECTRICITY? Are you tired of paying electric bills? Would you be interested in receiving FREE ELECTRICITY from The International Tesla Electric Company? A limited amount of people can receive a FREE ELECTRICITY GENERATOR at their residence. Act NOW! First come First serve. For details, send an email to rick at nationalserviceco.com and make your Declaration of Energy Independence today. ________________________________________________________________________ UCSA---Advertisment From rick at nationalserviceco.com Mon Jul 2 21:36:44 2001 From: rick at nationalserviceco.com (Rick) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 21:36:44 Subject: FREE ELECTRICITY for homes Message-ID: <200107030438.f634cMx07475@ak47.algebra.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent in compliance of the new e-mail bill: SECTION 301. Per section 301, Paragraph (a)(2)(C) of S. 1618, Further transmissions to you by the sender of this email may be stopped at no cost to you by sending a reply to this email address with the word "remove" in the subject line. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Are you interested in FREE ELECTRICITY? Are you tired of paying electric bills? Would you be interested in receiving FREE ELECTRICITY from The International Tesla Electric Company? A limited amount of people can receive a FREE ELECTRICITY GENERATOR at their residence. Act NOW! First come First serve. For details, send an email to rick at nationalserviceco.com and make your Declaration of Energy Independence today. ________________________________________________________________________ UCSA---Advertisment From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jul 2 19:46:17 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 21:46:17 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Tampa using cameras to scan for wanted faces-- In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Jul 2001, Aimee Farr wrote: > Choate: You really should learn some manners. > > > Explain your answer: > > > > Neither. The wording of the question indicates a deep ignorance of data > > conversion and data set analysis. I suggest a good study course in A/D > > data conversion techniques as well as statistical correlation analysis. > > Tell http://www.ibia.org/privacy.htm that. No, you tell them. It was your question after all. > > "Biometric Data" is the conversion of analog parameters converted to > > digital data and stored. It is used under the premise that by applying yet > > another algorithm (as opposed to the data conversion mechanism) the 1-to-1 > > correspondance between data set and individual can be proven. > > See? It worked on Choate. Yeah, I know... See what? That you and they are playing games instead of getting to the point. Typical lawyer crap. -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From George at Orwellian.Org Mon Jul 2 18:56:57 2001 From: George at Orwellian.Org (George at Orwellian.Org) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 21:56:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Zero Intelligence policy strikes again Message-ID: <200107030156.VAA13428@www1.aa.psiweb.com> [snipped] http://www.lasvegasweekly.com/2001/departments/2001_06_28/upfront_1.html # # "This was leading up to the Columbine time," Young said, referring to # April 20, the two-year anniversary of the Colorado shooting. "So any # type of rumor, any kinds of threats of joking, jestering or kidding, we # were following up on. This was one of those cases. If the kid makes any # type of threat with a weapon, and he has access, whether (it) belongs to # the parent in the home or not, they are automatically takeninto # custody." # # School police also found in Joseph K.'s locker and backpack more # "evidence:" a class report he'd been writing about the Holocaust, he'd # written for another class, answering the question: What's the biggest # problem facing schools today? Joseph K.'s essay focused on school # violence. # # KANGAROO COURT # # During a family court hearing the next day, Joseph K. and his # grandparents were only told that the teen was being charged with # "harassment." They received no paperwork detailing what prompted the # charges: They weren't even allowed to have a copy of the paper that # listed "harassment" as the charge. ---- Sorry about any dup emails, that'll be fixed soon. From roach_s at intplsrv.net Mon Jul 2 19:59:25 2001 From: roach_s at intplsrv.net (Sean Roach) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 21:59:25 -0500 Subject: Tampa using cameras to scan for wanted faces-- Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.1.20010702215544.00b07970@mail.intplsrv.net> Can the program be thrown off with masks? If so, how about making some of those advertisement fans with the pictures of random people wanted for parking tickets on them, then walk through that end of town. Possibly better yet would be fliers, balloons, and bumper stickers. These could be given away to people in areas that don't particulary trust the local police anyway, or simply applied to cars of people who frequent areas such as the employee parking of the local court house. Either could be distributed to bars. Can the things be fooled by using black markers to add shadows where there should be none? Will painted on faces become the new rage in Tampa? I can just see people wearing "war paint", some to avoid the cameras, the rest because it's fashionable. At 09:26 PM 7/2/2001 -0400, George at Orwellian.Org wrote: >Someone is Usenet wants to hassle the cameras >with paintball guns. > >---- > >http://www.baynews9.com/newsstory.asp?storyname=2001/June/30/ybor ># ># Orwell wrote 1984 warning for Britain. It is truly spooky how close he ># was to the truth, though a bit late in the time frame. ># ># No one expected it to apply, too, to America. Yet, here it is. It is ># far more sinister than people realize. As one reader already mentioned ># in one thread: " this can readily be used for people carrying guns." ># That, and the identification of members of the NRA, JPFO, GOA, North ># Caucus, CCOPS, RKBA, and instant notification of the street cop in the ># vicinity, and we have a far more THOROUGH Tyranny than even the North ># Caucus envisioned when it began warning the people and government some ># years ago. ># ># Our question, this time: "how accurate are paint guns? Seriously. ># Could a ># good shot peg these cameras from the street below?" We have similar ># cameras ># in a towns in Georgia, watching traffic for people running stop ># lights. How long before those cameras are silently hooked into this ># network for face recognition? ># ># It's time for civil disobedience. ># 1) Arm yourselves in anticipation of a governmental advance on your ># firearms. ># 2) Get paint gun specialists to try these cameras. ># 3) WARN the governments, local, state and national, that we won't stay ># put ># for such tyranny as they envision. ># Our warning: ># http://www.geocities.com/north_caucus >[ an extremely alarmed over gun rights site ] ># ># Ben Waldo ># North Caucus of America ># Florida Section From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jul 2 20:17:37 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 22:17:37 -0500 (CDT) Subject: More on Feds, Raelian cloning lab, and trying to , stifle , research In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010702224742.0249ccf0@mail.well.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Jul 2001, Declan McCullagh wrote: > I encourage folks on this mini-discussion thread to copy > cypherpunks at cyberpass.net. I'm taking the liberty of adding it since by > copying politech, Nat seemed to intend his message for general distribution. > At 09:59 PM 7/2/01 -0400, Nat wrote: > >Lastly, as the authors cited point out, it doesn't seem to be possible to > >tell whether a viable infant cloned mammal will survive till adulthood (in > >good health). Genetically diseased parents, on the other hand, can have > >the fetus tested for this disease- and aborted, if necessary. At any > >rate, at least they know what they're facing. Irrelevant. That's true of ANY child. -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jul 2 20:36:31 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 22:36:31 -0500 Subject: OPT: Slashdot | On the Definition of a Hostile Network Connection? Message-ID: <3B413DBF.36B2E1F7@ssz.com> http://slashdot.org/askslashdot/01/07/02/2138212.shtml -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jul 2 20:38:49 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 22:38:49 -0500 Subject: Scientists Manufacture Human Eggs Message-ID: <3B413E49.A712834E@ssz.com> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20010702/aponline165219_000.htm -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From declan at well.com Mon Jul 2 19:49:07 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 22:49:07 -0400 Subject: FC: More on Feds, Raelian cloning lab, and trying to stifle research In-Reply-To: References: <3B40D295.6090401@nihidyll.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010702224742.0249ccf0@mail.well.com> I encourage folks on this mini-discussion thread to copy cypherpunks at cyberpass.net. I'm taking the liberty of adding it since by copying politech, Nat seemed to intend his message for general distribution. -Declan At 09:59 PM 7/2/01 -0400, Nat wrote: > > No, it's not. The risk in cloning is that of creating a human being with > > serious genetic defects, not of injuring existing human beings. This is > > identical to the risk in "permitting" people with genetic defects to > > procreate. I'm sure you oppose forced sterilization, which means you > > think the risk is worth it in one case, and not the other -- for a > > variety of reasons, perhaps good ones -- but please don't demagogue. > >How am I being a demagogue? Tim framed this as an issue of scientific >research. Human cloning has yet to be accomplished; any attempts >(especially on the scale the Raelians seem to be after) at this date will >involve much trial and error (and dead babies). That's entirely different >from issues of procreation. It'd be better addressed in this case as one >of religious freedom (though I doubt they'd be on stronger ground there >either). Perhaps in 20 years this will not be an issue, but right now >it's still medical testing on humans. > >I refer you to this: >Jaenisch, R, and I. Wilmut. Science, Vol. 291, Issue 5513, 2552-2552, >March 30, 2001 >Ian Wilmut is the creator of Dolly, FYI. > >Lastly, as the authors cited point out, it doesn't seem to be possible to >tell whether a viable infant cloned mammal will survive till adulthood (in >good health). Genetically diseased parents, on the other hand, can have >the fetus tested for this disease- and aborted, if necessary. At any >rate, at least they know what they're facing. > >-Nat From declan at well.com Mon Jul 2 19:52:09 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 22:52:09 -0400 Subject: Tampa using cameras to scan for wanted faces-- In-Reply-To: <200107030126.VAA23573@www0.aa.psiweb.com>; from George@Orwellian.Org on Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 09:26:12PM -0400 References: <200107030126.VAA23573@www0.aa.psiweb.com> Message-ID: <20010702225209.A18966@cluebot.com> Got a cite? Sounds amusing. -Declan On Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 09:26:12PM -0400, George at Orwellian.Org wrote: > Someone is Usenet wants to hassle the cameras > with paintball guns. > > ---- > > http://www.baynews9.com/newsstory.asp?storyname=2001/June/30/ybor > # > # Orwell wrote 1984 warning for Britain. It is truly spooky how close he > # was to the truth, though a bit late in the time frame. > # > # No one expected it to apply, too, to America. Yet, here it is. It is > # far more sinister than people realize. As one reader already mentioned > # in one thread: " this can readily be used for people carrying guns." > # That, and the identification of members of the NRA, JPFO, GOA, North > # Caucus, CCOPS, RKBA, and instant notification of the street cop in the > # vicinity, and we have a far more THOROUGH Tyranny than even the North > # Caucus envisioned when it began warning the people and government some > # years ago. > # > # Our question, this time: "how accurate are paint guns? Seriously. > # Could a > # good shot peg these cameras from the street below?" We have similar > # cameras > # in a towns in Georgia, watching traffic for people running stop > # lights. How long before those cameras are silently hooked into this > # network for face recognition? > # > # It's time for civil disobedience. > # 1) Arm yourselves in anticipation of a governmental advance on your > # firearms. > # 2) Get paint gun specialists to try these cameras. > # 3) WARN the governments, local, state and national, that we won't stay > # put > # for such tyranny as they envision. > # Our warning: > # http://www.geocities.com/north_caucus > [ an extremely alarmed over gun rights site ] > # > # Ben Waldo > # North Caucus of America > # Florida Section From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jul 2 20:53:10 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 22:53:10 -0500 (CDT) Subject: WoW Message-ID: TEST TUBE BABIES ---------------- TEST TUBE BABIES BABY MUTATION MACHINE FEELS GOOD HOME OF THE WHOPPER BABY FASTER FASTER FEELS GOOD OH I LOVE YOU OH I LOVE YOU OH I LOVE YOU OH RATS EAT GARBAGE BABY CHROMASOME CHANGE FEELS GOOD PLASMIC ERUPTION BABY EXPLODING MY BRAIN PIG IS A PIG ------------ NOW THIS SONG IS DEDICATED TO A SPECIAL KIND OF PERSON THE KIND OF PERSON THAT'S HIDING UNDER ROCKS AND IN CLOSETS WHEREVER YOU GO HIDING BEHIND A GUISE OF RESPECTABILITY THE COWARDLY JOURNALIST WHO HIDES BEHIND HIS TYPEWRITER EXPLOITING PEOPLE WHO CAN'T FIGHT BACK THE ASSASSIN WHO STRIKES PEOPLE BY SURPRISE THE SICKIE SADIST WHO HIDES BEHIND HIS POLICE BADGE TO COMMIT CRIMES OF VIOLENCE AGAINST OTHER PEOPLE WHATEVER ROLE THEY ARE PLAYING THESE CREEPS ARE ALWAYS THE SAME BECAUSE A PIG IS A PIG AND THAT'S THAT (ICHI NI SAN SHI) YOUR STINKIN' LIES ARE SO LAME YOUR STUPID IDEAS ARE THE SAME A PIG IS A PIG AND THAT'S THAT YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE YOUR PHONEY POSE IS SO OLD YOU'RE JUST A PRODUCT FROM THE MOLD A PIG IS A PIG AND THAT'S THAT YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE I CAN PREDICT WHAT YOU'LL DO 'CAUSE EVERYONE ELSE IS LIKE YOU A PIG IS A PIG AND THAT'S THAT STUPID MEAN AND UGLY DOWN IN THE DIRT WHERE YOU GO LOWER THAN YOU YOU CAN'T GO A PIG IS A PIG AND THAT'S THAT BIG BROTHER'S WATCHING YOU YOU CAN DRESS UP IN DISGUISES YOU CAN TRY TO MESMERIZE 'EM YOU CAN SURROUND YOURSELF WITH FRIENDS WHO TELL YOU WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR BUT IN THE END NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO YOU WILL COME SHINING THROUGH 12 NOON ------- AS OF 12 NOON TOMORROW SAY GOODBYE TO THE WORLD AS YOU KNOW IT SAY GOODBYE TO: NEUTRON BOMBS AND CHEMICAL FOOD COWBOY POLITICS MAN ON THE MOON MURDER AND RAPE AND CHEMICAL WASTE POLLUTION AND DEATH HOME OF THE BRAVE RACISM TELEVISION CORPORATE GOD POLYURETHANE BREAKFAST FORMICA LUNCH INSIPID IDEAS AND COMFORTING RULES COLLAPSING CITIES ARCHAIC SCHOOLS SMALL MINDED PEOPLE THEY KNOW IT ALL BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING THE KKK BALL BHA BHT PROPYL GALLATE MSG DRIED CORN SYRUP TBHO DIPOTASSIUM PHOSPHATE WHOLESOME PRODUCTS FOR YOU GUM ACACIA HYDROGINATED OIL POTATO STARCH BRING TO THE BOIL STOP ---- STOP WHILE YOU'VE STILL GOT THE TIME LOOK WHAT YOU'VE DONE TO YOURSELF STOP WHILE YOU'VE STILL GOT THE TIME LOOK WHAT YOU'VE DONE TO YOURSELF STOP WITH THE RAPE OF THE EARTH YOU WERE NOT MADE FOR THIS STOP WITH YOUR CAMPAIGN OF HATE STOP BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE THE BELL TOLLS THE BELL TOLLS BRINGING THE MOMENT OF TRUTH RINGING ITS WARNING IT'S RINGING THE MOMENT OF TRUTH WAKE-UP WAKE-UP WAKE-UP WAKE-UP JUST LIKE ON TV --------------- BURNING FLAMES ON THE OCEAN SOLDIERS MARCHING ON LOS ANGELES GLACIERS COVER THE DESERT MICRO-ORGANISMS IN THE BREEZE GIANT APE-LIKE INVADERS SWIM THE RIVER TO NEW YORK MASSIVE GLOBAL ERUPTIONS PANIC SPREADING IT WILL NOT STOP HEY AIN'T IT JUST LIKE ON TV HEY AIN'T IT WHAT YOU WANTED TO SEE HEY NOW ALL YOUR DREAMS HAVE COME TRUE HEY AND ALL YOUR NIGHTMARES TOO THE DAMNED ---------- BLACK VISIONS FROM THE SATELLITE SKY DEAF EARS HEAR NOT THEIR CRIES FAT JACKALS HOWL AT THE MOON FLIES BUZZING PLAYING DEATH'S TUNE NIGHT ENDS BUT THE SUN IT DON'T RISE TOMBS OPEN AND THE DEAD THEY WILL RISE BLACK MARKET BUYS YOUR SOUL REAL CHEAP NO ESCAPING WHAT YOU SOW YOU WILL REAP PRISONERS OF THE DAMNED FIND ANOTHER LAND PLANET OF THE LOST LAND OF FIRE AND FROST PRISONERS OF THE DEAD FEAR THE UNKNOWN DREAD TIDAL WAVES AT SEA SET THE SERPENTS FREE COUP D'ETAT ON A GLOBAL SCALE OPPOSITION LOCKED UP IN JAIL DOMINATION THE GOONS ARE THE BOSS HUMAN RACE NAILED TO A CROSS -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jul 2 21:20:51 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 23:20:51 -0500 Subject: sacbee: Cal Report - Nevada hit with rolling blackouts, declares red alert Message-ID: <3B414823.245D928@ssz.com> http://www.sacbee.com/news/calreport/calrep_story.cgi?story=N2001-07-02-1700-1.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody at remailer.privacy.at Mon Jul 2 14:58:03 2001 From: nobody at remailer.privacy.at (Anonymous) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 23:58:03 +0200 Subject: CNN: Tampa using cameras to scan for wanted faces Message-ID: Tampa is using high-tech security cameras to scan the city's streets for people wanted for crimes, a law enforcement tactic that some liken to Big Brother. [...] http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/ptech/07/02/high.tech.security.ap/index.html From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jul 2 22:03:04 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 00:03:04 -0500 Subject: O'Connor Questions Death Penalty Message-ID: <3B415208.865CACC5@ssz.com> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20010702/aponline224901_000.htm -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From George at Orwellian.Org Tue Jul 3 01:25:18 2001 From: George at Orwellian.Org (George at Orwellian.Org) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 04:25:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Not all that blitters is eGold. Message-ID: <200107030825.EAA16270@www3.aa.psiweb.com> [snipped] http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/03/business/03PONZ.html?pagewanted=1 # # July 3, 2001 # # U.S. Charges Internet Operation Was a Huge Scam # # By KURT EICHENWALD # # OKLAHOMA CITY - By last September, life was getting rough for # Donald A. English. # # An unemployed single father, Mr. English was almost out of cash. # His family was threatened with eviction. Collection agencies # were at the door. His credit cards were mostly tapped out. # # With the walls closing in, Mr. English, 53, decided to grab for # a distinctly modern solution to his crumbling finances: He started # his own dot-com. # # But this was no ordinary Internet company. Instead, government # investigators said, it was the centerpiece of a huge scam. With # it, they said, this down-and-outer from Midwest City, Okla., # established one of history's fastest frauds, conning tens of # thousands of small investors out of as much as $50 million in # a matter of weeks, until the scheme collapsed early this year # in scandal. # [snip] # # Investigators have stumbled across imaginary banks hawking # nonexistent "digital" certificates of deposit, illusory # trillion-dollar government obligations and bogus business deals # to "lease" millions of dollars in cash. # [snip] # # In the case of EE-Biz, court records show, investors who signed # up opened an account with a legitimate company that functioned # like a bank, using an Internet currency known as e-gold. Then, # they transferred dollars in e-gold - a transaction known as a # spend, involving as little as $20 or as much as several thousand # - to an e-gold account, controlled by someone else. The early # investors received double their money back, with no explanation # of how it was done. As word spread of the payouts, investors # flocked to the site to participate. # # Mr. English himself had been a victim of a number of similar # schemes and decided to open up his own, according to transcripts # of chat room conversations. Those transcripts indicate that Mr. # English himself may not have completely understood the bogus # nature of the plan. # [snip] From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jul 3 06:12:16 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 08:12:16 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Of Art, Earthquakes, Image Processing And Restoration In-Reply-To: <20010703095551.A6921@tornado-openbsd.internal.yourcreativesolutions.nl> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Wouter Slegers wrote: > I don't think this texture classification method is going to work on > normal printed text, as it has no real distinguishing texture. For Text is printed on paper. -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jul 3 06:14:13 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 08:14:13 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Banned Research and Raids on "Secret Labs" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Sampo Syreeni wrote: > On Mon, 2 Jul 2001, Trei, Peter wrote: > > >Cloning is far from a perfected technology - dozens of embryos are started > >for each one that comes to term, and many that are born have severe > >defects and die young. A lot that don't die young are pretty darn > >unhealthy in various ways. > > That I didn't know. I've been under the impression that most failed cloning > attempts result in a miscarriage. The point that Peter makes is as valid for normal sexual intercourse. It's a moot point. -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jul 3 06:22:33 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 08:22:33 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Cloning, miscarriange, and the 1st Message-ID: The fact is that if clonning research is stopped then the low success rate will continue. A self-fulfilling prophecy. If it is allowed to go forward in a very short time (a year perhaps) the problems will be ironed out and the success rate will exceed 'natural' (Grrrr Judeo-Christian ethics) rates of success. Eugenics - the management of reproductive choice by the state. What we need to do is outlaw the imposition of religious and political viewpoints from the discussion....wait.... Amendment I Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jul 3 06:31:50 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 08:31:50 -0500 Subject: Slashdot | Using GPS To Catch Speeders Found Illegal Message-ID: <3B41C946.928E1574@ssz.com> http://slashdot.org/articles/01/07/03/0423218.shtml -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jul 3 06:36:28 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 08:36:28 -0500 Subject: Kyllo: Taking the 5th on the 4th Message-ID: <3B41CA5C.5E304585@ssz.com> http://www.wired.com/news/privacy/0,1848,44785,00.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From wouter at yourcreativesolutions.nl Tue Jul 3 00:55:51 2001 From: wouter at yourcreativesolutions.nl (Wouter Slegers) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:55:51 +0200 Subject: Of Art, Earthquakes, Image Processing And Restoration In-Reply-To: <3B31E3AE.621CC52F@ssz.com>; from ravage@ssz.com on Thu, Jun 21, 2001 at 07:08:14AM -0500 References: <3B31E3AE.621CC52F@ssz.com> Message-ID: <20010703095551.A6921@tornado-openbsd.internal.yourcreativesolutions.nl> On Thu, Jun 21, 2001 at 07:08:14AM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > And you thought double shredding would save your privacy... > http://unisci.com/stories/20012/0621015.htm I recently got their paper and although it is very interesting for image classification, it seems of limited use for reconstruction of printed text from shredded documents. The authors describe a method for classification of textures to a compact representation (a 2NK long vector) and a way of determining the most likely texture class a given pixel is part of (by examining the pixels neighbours), with an error probability of 22% for 10 different textures. Although not described in the paper, I assume the pixels of the same class can be grouped into "patches" of the same texture, allow jigsaw-like problem solving. I don't think this texture classification method is going to work on normal printed text, as it has no real distinguishing texture. For shredded pictures the classification method will probably be effective in reducing the pictures of the shreds to smaller distinguishing values that can be used for a jigsaw solving algorithm. So as I see it, the real question is: how viable is the reconstruction of the complete "puzzle" given most/all of the pieces, some valueset indicating the probability two pieces are neigbours and maybe some information on the overall picture? Looks like a hard problem. With kind regards, Wouter Slegers From wouter at yourcreativesolutions.nl Tue Jul 3 00:55:51 2001 From: wouter at yourcreativesolutions.nl (Wouter Slegers) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:55:51 +0200 Subject: Of Art, Earthquakes, Image Processing And Restoration In-Reply-To: <3B31E3AE.621CC52F@ssz.com>; from ravage@ssz.com on Thu, Jun 21, 2001 at 07:08:14AM -0500 References: <3B31E3AE.621CC52F@ssz.com> Message-ID: <20010703095551.A6921@tornado-openbsd.internal.yourcreatives olutions.nl> On Thu, Jun 21, 2001 at 07:08:14AM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > And you thought double shredding would save your privacy... > http://unisci.com/stories/20012/0621015.htm I recently got their paper and although it is very interesting for image classification, it seems of limited use for reconstruction of printed text from shredded documents. The authors describe a method for classification of textures to a compact representation (a 2NK long vector) and a way of determining the most likely texture class a given pixel is part of (by examining the pixels neighbours), with an error probability of 22% for 10 different textures. Although not described in the paper, I assume the pixels of the same class can be grouped into "patches" of the same texture, allow jigsaw-like problem solving. I don't think this texture classification method is going to work on normal printed text, as it has no real distinguishing texture. For shredded pictures the classification method will probably be effective in reducing the pictures of the shreds to smaller distinguishing values that can be used for a jigsaw solving algorithm. So as I see it, the real question is: how viable is the reconstruction of the complete "puzzle" given most/all of the pieces, some valueset indicating the probability two pieces are neigbours and maybe some information on the overall picture? Looks like a hard problem. With kind regards, Wouter Slegers From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jul 3 08:13:12 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 10:13:12 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Sender and receiver non-repudiation (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 17:48:31 +0300 (EET DST) From: Helger Lipmaa To: Panayiotis Kotzanikolaou Cc: cryptography at wasabisystems.com Subject: Re: Sender and receiver non-repudiation On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Panayiotis Kotzanikolaou wrote: > The problem in this scheme is that Bob signs and sends the proof after > he has received M. Bob can receive M and never send a receipt. > > By using a trusted delivery service, it is easy to produce > non-repudiation evidence both for the sender and the receiver. > Is there any cryptographic protocol that "forces" Bob to produce > non-repudiation evidence during execution? Answering only to this concrete question: the kind of things you want are accomplished by contract signing protocols. A few recent papers: Optimistic Protocols for Fair Exchange(N. Asokan, Matthis Schunter, Michael Waidner, 1996) Optimal Efficiency of Optimistic Contract Signing(Birgit Pfitzmann, Matthias Schunter, Michael Waidner, PODC 98) Optimistic synchronous multi-party contract signing(N. Asokan, Birgit Baum-Waidner, Matthias Schunter, and Michael Waidner, dec 1998) Asynchronous protocols for optimistic fair exchange(N. Asokan, Victor Shoup, Michael Waidner, may 1998) Optimistic asynchronous multi-party contract signing(Birgit Baum-Waidner and Michael Waidner, nov 1998) Optimistic fair exchange of digital signatures(N. Askon, Victor Shoup, Michael Waidner, oct 1999) Abuse-free Optimistic Contract Signing(Juan Garay, Markus Jakobsson, Phil MacKenzie, CRYPTO '99) Abuse-free Multi-party Contract Signing( Juan Garay, Phil MacKenzie, DISC '99) Provable Secure Certified Mail(Birgit Pfitzmann, Matthias Schunter, Michael Waidner, 2000) Analysis of Abuse-Free Contract Signing( Vitaly Shmatikov, John C. Mitchell, 2000) 06/23/01 Optimistic Asynchronous Multi-Party Contract Signing with Reduced Number of Rounds(Birgit Baum-Waidner, eprint 2001/044) (you can find links to them at http://www.tml.hut.fi/~helger/crypto/link/protocols/contract.html) Answering more generally: it does not help you to get non-repudiation. Nothing does, unless Bob is able to prove that you signed this document consiously, being sober, and generally, that you MEANT to sign it. Helger --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From schear at lvcm.com Tue Jul 3 10:41:56 2001 From: schear at lvcm.com (Steve Schear) Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 10:41:56 -0700 Subject: Cloning, miscarriange, and the 1st In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010703103149.039a8df0@pop3.lvcm.com> At 08:22 AM 7/3/2001 -0500, Jim Choate wrote: >The fact is that if clonning research is stopped then the low success rate >will continue. A self-fulfilling prophecy. If it is allowed to go forward >in a very short time (a year perhaps) the problems will be ironed out and >the success rate will exceed 'natural' (Grrrr Judeo-Christian ethics) >rates of success. > >Eugenics - the management of reproductive choice by the state. > >What we need to do is outlaw the imposition of religious and political >viewpoints from the discussion....wait.... > > Amendment I > >Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or >prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, >or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to >petition the Government for a redress of grievances. The problem with this argument is that despite the apparent religious agnosticism of the 1st, the moral basis upon which the SC has interpreted our laws is Judeo-Christian. Historically you've been protected from government intrusion unless your religion offends too many powerful people or presents political challenges. Consider the Mormons and shamanic drug rituals of the native Americans. Didn't Mao say something about all politics being, eventually, dispensed from the end of gun? steve From schear at lvcm.com Tue Jul 3 10:43:46 2001 From: schear at lvcm.com (Steve Schear) Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 10:43:46 -0700 Subject: Slashdot | Using GPS To Catch Speeders Found Illegal In-Reply-To: <3B41C946.928E1574@ssz.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010703104317.039b2008@pop3.lvcm.com> At 08:31 AM 7/3/2001 -0500, you wrote: >http://slashdot.org/articles/01/07/03/0423218.shtml Somehow I feel we haven't heard the end of this.. steve From schear at lvcm.com Tue Jul 3 11:09:43 2001 From: schear at lvcm.com (Steve Schear) Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 11:09:43 -0700 Subject: Kyllo: Taking the 5th on the 4th Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010703104644.04464fc0@pop3.lvcm.com> Although the ruling only appears to apply to one's home it does raise questions whether citizens may have the right to prevent their observation while in public. After all one is permitted tinted windows on autos. Despite certain city/county ordinances why not masks or helmets with tinted faceplates. What if exoskeletons become practical? Shouldn't they be treated the same as an auto? steve From honig at sprynet.com Tue Jul 3 11:11:15 2001 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 11:11:15 -0700 Subject: Cloning, miscarriange, and the 1st In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010703111115.008d9100@pop.sprynet.com> At 08:22 AM 7/3/01 -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > >Eugenics - the management of reproductive choice by the state. > No. No more than your choice of reading materials is censorship. If I chose not to publish or buy text-X its not censorship. If the government interferes, it is. Now if I choose a spawning mate based on their apparent fitness (as judged by me), this is personal 'eugenics', and its fine morally. (Similarly with those who voluntarily delegate the choice to family members.) Now if the State does the choosing, its coercion by the state, which was pretty tainted by the German Socialists a generation or two ago, regardless of the possible future benefits, even if 'fitness' is agreed upon by all. Regardless of the benefits, its coercion. Private choice vs. Coercion by the State. Simple. Not all choice is censorship, or bad eugenics. ..... Aside: When the State enslaves 'fit' citizens as soldiers, some fraction of which are taken out of the gene pool, an indirect form of eugenics (animal husbandry) is taking place. Selection against 1As and carriers of patriotism traits, for instance. Evolution never sleeps. From urheal4727 at Flashmail.com Tue Jul 3 08:14:35 2001 From: urheal4727 at Flashmail.com (urheal4727 at Flashmail.com) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 11:14:35 -0400 Subject: Joint pain cure with chicken collagen fkprn Message-ID: <200106290409197.SM00215@www.eatseeds.com> JOINT HEAL If you have deteriorating joints of any kind, joint heal will help regenerate that loss. Joint Heal has chicken collagen in it as well as the famed glucosamine sulfate. It also has MSM in it along with Chondroitin Sulfate. One study quoted by chemist Robert Barefoot told of 387 chronic arthritic patients, half in wheelchairs, who were treated with crushed chicken collagen and gelatin. ALL were improved and all were out of their wheelchairs in six weeks. (i'm sure they were not completely c crippled but used the chairs just to make it easier for them) These types of stories do not get publicized as do medications which can not work. As the medications keep the individual in a gradual decline, people need to realize how simple the answer really is. Joint pain decreases within three days or sooner as regeneration begins. Joint Heal is 37.95 per bottle, 120 tablets. plus $5.95 shipping and handling. Call 800-395-7379 to order by credit card. For more info reply to this e-mail with the words "more info" in the subject line. Joint Heal is nothing like the normal joint products found in the Health food stores. Joint Heal was created by an individual whose mother had knotted up hands from arthritis. He worked years on a formula that finally helped straightened her hands and has been selling it throughout the world for 4 years. That product is Joint Heal. Glucosamine sulfate alone can do only a fraction of what the combination found in Joint Heal can do. Below is the unmatched combination of ingredients found in Joint Heal. Vitamin C 100mg, MSM (Methyl-Sulfonyl-Methane) 750mg, Chicken Collagen 250gm, Chondroitin Sulfate (from chicken sternal cartilage) Magnesium 200mg, Copper 500mcg, Manganese 5m, Sodium (as glucosamine sulfate) 60mg, Glucosamine Sulfate 750mg, Boron 750 mcg. Health R Us is an independent volunteer advertizing company bringing forth truth in healing. To subscribe, reply to this e-mail with "subscribe" in the subject line. We will bring you truths in healing concerning many types of sicknesses. To be removed reply to this e-mail with "remove" in the subject line. For more info reply to this e-mail with the words "more info" in the subject line. Call 800-395-7379 to order From frissell at panix.com Tue Jul 3 08:24:20 2001 From: frissell at panix.com (Duncan Frissell) Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 11:24:20 -0400 Subject: No legitimate reason for an American citizen to have an offshore account Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010306123230.029cb6a0@popserver.panix.com> Better late than never... New York Times March 3, 2001 Citibank Admits to Lapses in Dealings With Offshore Shell Banks http://www.nytimes.com/2001/03/03/business/03LAUN.html There is no legitimate reason for an American citizen to have an offshore account, the experts told the panel. "When you go offshore, you are doing so to evade rules, regulations, laws or taxes," said Jack Blum, a Washington lawyer with 30 years of experience in financial fraud, tax evasion and money laundering. Who's Jack you ask: Bio: http://www.ciba-imlc-rcmp-grc.org/pages_01/p_3_agen/3_age_5_e.html Provides cover for the CIA ducking drug smuggling charges: http://www.angelfire.com/id/ciadrugs/blumlive.html Works for a firm called in to defend the Clinton Secret Police: http://www.wired.com/news/lycos/0,1306,37022,00.html http://www.mccullagh.org/theme/act-investigation.html Supplies quotes for the IRS to tiptoe through credit card slips: http://personal.bellsouth.net/atl/d/b/dboddifo/Tax2.htm Isn't the Net convenient? As to the larger question of whether or not there are legitimate reasons for US citizens to have offshore accounts of various sorts, some of these reasons are "legitimate" and apply to US citizens: Offshore? US citizens 1. Tax avoidance/evasion (avoidance is legal) 2. Privacy preservation vis-a-vis government, family, creditors, enemies 3. Asset protection (seizure, litigation, etc) 4. Probate avoidance 5. Removal of assets from personal estate for qualification purposes (student aid, convalescent care, etc) 6. Access to accounts denominated in foreign currencies 7. Improved banking services for international business transactions Europeans 1. Access to Anglo-Saxon legal forms (ie Trusts) 2. Avoiding Forced Heirship 3. Expatiate financing & tax planning Other nationals 1. Country risk 2. Avoid exchange controls 3. Expatiate financing & tax planning From RonHolland at compuserve.com Tue Jul 3 08:30:11 2001 From: RonHolland at compuserve.com (Ron Holland) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 11:30:11 -0400 Subject: No legitimate reason for an American citizen to have an offshore account Message-ID: <200107031130_MC3-D7EA-39B1@compuserve.com> Re: Why I Can't Sing "The Star Spangled Banner" in Church This July 4th > Sunday > > Please take a moment & read the above short 800 word article for your > review, > consideration & linking at the following URL: > http://www.southerncaucus.org/nostarspangledbanner.htm > > Thank you, > Ron Holland, Editor > Dixie Daily News http://www.southerncaucus.org From 12th.BL.&.CL.Symposium at toad.com Tue Jul 3 12:16:01 2001 From: 12th.BL.&.CL.Symposium at toad.com (12th.BL.&.CL.Symposium at toad.com) Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 12:16:01 Subject: Symposium, Cambridge, UK; April 2002 Message-ID: ===================================================== If you have received this email in error or do not wish to receive further information about the Symposium please reply to this message with the word REMOVE in the subject line. Please accept our apologies for troubling you. Thank you. ===================================================== FIRST ANNOUNCEMENT 12th International Symposium on Bioluminescence & Chemiluminescence Symposium website: http://www.lumiweb.com DATES: 5-9 April 2002 VENUE: Robinson College, University of Cambridge, UK This symposium, which is held in association with the International Society for Bioluminescence & Chemiluminescence (ISBC), is the next in the biennial series that was started in 1978. The content will again be broad, and include all aspects of fundamental and basic science as well as the wide range of applications that now depend on these technologies. The Symposium will be held in April 2002 at Robinson College, University of Cambridge, UK. Robinson College is well designed to host conferences and has excellent en suite accommodation. All Symposium activities will be held at the College. More details about Robinson College can be found at http://www.robinson.cam.ac.uk. The Symposium will start the evening of Friday 5 April and finish at midday Tuesday 9 April. Registration and accommodation details are available at http://www.lumiweb.com. Those who register for the Symposium by 19 November 2001 (this date is also the Abstract deadline date) will get a preferential rate and current Members of the ISBC are entitled to a further reduction. The Symposium will consist of presentations (both oral and poster). There will be also be an exhibition of equipment and reagents. Workshops are also planned. ENQUIRIES Email: symposium at lumiweb.com. ABSTRACTS Abstracts are invited for oral and poster presentations. Deadline for Abstracts: 19 November 2001. See http://www.lumiweb.com for further information. Accepted abstracts will be published in the journal "Luminescence" (publisher, John Wiley & Sons). SYMPOSIUM PUBLICATION Manuscripts will be invited from authors making presentations and these will be published in a Proceedings volume which will be sent after the Symposium and free-of-charge to each registered delegate. SYMPOSIUM PROGRAMME The International Society for Bioluminescence & Chemiluminescence (ISBC) is taking responsibility for the scientific programme (Programme Co-Chairs: Professor Tony Campbell (University of Wales College of Medicine), Dr Phil Hill (University of Nottingham, UK) and Professor Peter Herring (Southampton Oceanography Centre, UK) Past President of ISBC). TOPICS FOR THE SYMPOSIUM WILL INCLUDE (but are not restricted to) (A) BASIC SCIENCE OF BIOLUMINESCENCE & CHEMILUMINESCENCE: Chemiluminescence: >> Detection, measurement and imaging of luminescent reactions >> Chemistry of chemiluminescent reactions >> Reaction mechanisms >> Chemiluminescent labels, dioxetanes, acridans etc. >> Oxygen and other free radicals >> Standard light sources Bioluminescence: >> Biochemistry of luminous organisms [firefly, Vibrio, Beneckea, Renilla etc.] >> Luciferases and luciferins >> Photoproteins >> Quorum sensing and autoinducers >> Genetic engineering of bioluminescence enzymes >> Circadian phenomena Ultraweak luminescence: >> Phagocytosis >> Cellular luminescence Organisms: >> Oceanic bioluminescence >> Behaviour and ecology of luminous species (B) APPLICATIONS OF BIOLUMINESCENCE & CHEMILUMINESCENCE: >> Luminescent reporter genes including lux, luc and green fluorescent protein (GFP) >> High-throughput screening using luminescence >> Imaging techniques for cells, tissues and whole organisms >> Imaging of arrays >> Immunoassays >> Blot hybridisation with chemiluminescence detection >> Luminescence-coupled assays >> Luminescent biosensors >> Cellular luminescence in clinical medicine >> Phagocytosis and disease >> ATP assays (e.g. for hygiene of food, water, clinical samples) >> Green fluorescent protein applications >> Luminometers and instrumentation >> Imaging devices >> Chemiluminescence and fluorescence for in-situ hybridisation >> Use of luminescence as an educational tool >> Phagocytosis and cellular luminescence >> Ultra-weak chemiluminescence ===================================================== ===================================================== From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jul 3 10:35:58 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 12:35:58 -0500 Subject: Slashdot | The Poverty Of Attention Message-ID: <3B42027E.C00E8D5B@ssz.com> http://slashdot.org/features/01/06/28/1522228.shtml -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jul 3 11:05:04 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 13:05:04 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Cloning, miscarriange, and the 1st In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010703103149.039a8df0@pop3.lvcm.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Steve Schear wrote: > The problem with this argument is that despite the apparent religious > agnosticism of the 1st, the moral basis upon which the SC has interpreted > our laws is Judeo-Christian. Historically you've been protected from > government intrusion unless your religion offends too many powerful people > or presents political challenges. Consider the Mormons and shamanic drug > rituals of the native Americans. Didn't Mao say something about all > politics being, eventually, dispensed from the end of gun? Simple proof that my point is valid. -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From lisat at etransmail2.com Tue Jul 3 13:11:02 2001 From: lisat at etransmail2.com (Lisa Thornton) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 13:11:02 -0700 Subject: Become an Executive Member and Save! Message-ID: <200107032053.f63KrVx19237@ak47.algebra.com> TENASU RESEARCH CORP. You are subscribed as: cypherpunks at algebra.com Good Afternoon! Become an Executive Member and save on all your purchases of toner supplies, software and blank check paper! Click on the link below and then on the "Become a Member and Save" banner: http://www.g7ps.com ******************** Special Promotion for our subscribers: FREE Products (no other purchase required): a) eXpressForms "forms publisher" ($129.99 value) b) Fortune "relationship manager" ($149.99 value) c) DataScan "business card & contact list scanner" ($149.99 value) d) TransForm Suite "automatic form creation and text OCR" ($59.99 value) Pick up your FREE products at the web site specified below. Click on the following link for details and to order (or call the 800 number below) http://www.g7ps.com ********************* Please do not hesitate to call 800-303-2620 for any questions you may have. Thank you very much. Regards, Lisa Thornton Productivity Services Director G7 Productivity Systems, Inc. lisat at etransmail2.com 800-303-2620 To change your communication preference please click on: http://www.globalzon2k.com/scripts/mf_de.asp?e=cypherpunks at algebra.com or simply reply to this Email with UNSUBSCRIBE in the subject line. From tcmay at got.net Tue Jul 3 13:19:04 2001 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 13:19:04 -0700 Subject: Forbidden Knowledge (Banned Research, Part II) Message-ID: Cypherpunks, A followup to my earlier items on banned research. People arguing about the validity or need or danger of cloning research are missing the basic point. Much of the discussion here, and from some "echoes" I've gotten back from a list Declan forwarded my article to (Politech, I presume), has focused on the _cloning_ issue, qua cloning. Some argue for why stem cell research should be "allowed," some argue that cloning is intrinsically dangerous, some argue that there are no particular hazards to cloning. This is an interesting technical area, but my article was about the basic issue of the state deciding that some knowledge is too dangerous to let non-approved persons and labs gain access to it. And, equally basic and important, the troubling issue of how non-judicial (not going through a court, through a jury of one's peers, a la the Fourth and Sixth) means of enforcement are being used: "visits" by regulatory agencies and worried burrowcrats, "we're ordering a timeout," "consider this a warning shot across their bow," and, in some cases, even predawn raids on those trafficking in forbidden knowledge. Some have said the issue is public safety. Well, I mentioned this, in the context of their perhaps being justification for stopping someone or some company from assembling a nuclear weapon in their facilities. More plausibly, manufacture of nerve gas and biological warfare agents. No one has persuasively argued that human cloning research justifies this kind of restriction based on imminent danger--there is no "danger" of clone mutants, for example, running amok in a neighborhood. There _might_ be a bunch of failed implant attempts, failed attempts to bring a fertilized egg to term. Ditto for various experiments with artificial insemination, fertility drugs, etc. But no particular "imminent danger" requiring police action to protect the safety of others. (Someone on the other list talked about that old chestnut "Shouting "Fire" in a crowded theater." I say chestnut for the obvious reasons: even Holmes concluded later in his life that it has been appropriated for all sorts of appeals to censorship and restrictions on basic rights. And of course that old chestnut had the modifier "falsely" in the equation. The connection with the Rael group's work on cloning is an exercise I'll leave for students and lawyers in Texas.) The real issue is about a move toward "permission requirements" for research. We came _this_ close to having such restrictions on crypto (examples familiar to Cypherpunks); whether such restrictions would have withstood a challenge reaching the Supreme Court is unclear. And we have seen the Felten/DMCA nonsense, where researchers cannot even do basic analysis of published specs! And nuclear, chemical, and biological weaponry work. (There are even restrictions on such established things as _gun research_. A hobbyist interested in building a better kind of rifle, or even building an old-fashioned kind of rifle or handgun, has committed various felonies merely by building such a thing without having all sorts of expensive licenses and "permission slips" from the BATF and probably other local, state, and federal agencies. Even if he never sells his handiwork he has violated BATF regs...essentially a licensing restriction on R & D. Not such a big deal to Ruger or Kahr or Smith and Wesson, perhaps, but a mighty big insult to the Constitution...and to the Founders, some of whom were gun makers.) Tangential to this issue, but intersecting it, is the issue of licensing in general. More and more employment requires that the state issue a permission slip. As with the cloning arguments seen here, the debate is usually couched in terms of "public safety." (Though how the licensing of fortune tellers, here in Santa Cruz, is a matter of public safety is quite mysterious.) The real issue, as readers of my stuff will know, is the creation and support of guilds: licensing is a rent-seeking mechanism. (I mention "readers of my stuff will know" because I expect that if Declan chooses to forward this article to his own list(s), I'll get the predictable mini-flurry of questions and arguments from people who basically are in other worlds of discourse, people with whom I have little points of principle in common. To "reach them," if I cared to, I'd have to explain many more points than I have the time to do in these articles sent out to Cypherpunks. Agree or not with me, Cypherpunks mostly have some idea of what is meant by various terms and ideas here.) To cut to the chase, we are seeing a transition to a world of: -- licensed and approved members of professions. Lawyers, doctors, accountants, geologists, tax preparers, fortune tellers, even engineers and programmers (in more and more states). At this rate, Uncle Sam will have to give his blessing for any activity other than purely amateur or leisure activity. This is NOT what the Constitution is about. (And please don't anybody cite the "commerce clause": the 1964 landmark case arguing that interstate commerce was affected by a rib joint not serving blacks--hence making their discrimination policies subject to Congressional rule--was pretty bogus even back then. Arguing that a programmer needs to be licensed, regulated, and controlled because he might sell a program across state lines is even more bogus. People often lose sight of the forest for the trees. -- to a world where broad areas of research are banned or restricted to controlled institutions. Seen with CBW research, and now cloning. How long before it carries over to other areas in biology? Why not restrict computer virus research? Or nanotech research? (Some of these areas are even "dangerous." Imagine Ben Franklin being arrested for "conducting banned research into electricity"? "We are ordering a timeout on Dr. Franklin's dangerous experiments with kites and keys. We have it on good authority from our own experts that Dr. Franklin might hurt himself. And, as we know, lightning causes fires. Man was not meant to know such things...unless we in government are doing the work. Dr. Franklin should consider this a warning shot." As an exercise, make up a list of all of the other kinds of research which might have been banned on the grounds that it might be dangerous to the researcher or, someday, to others. "But these flying contraptions will no doubt crash and kill many innocent people. All we are requiring is a "timeout" on this forbidden research by these Wright brothers.") -- the "ban on bomb-making instructions" proposed by the usual suspects is a variant on this issue. If such a ban is passed into law, and upheld, how long before it carries over to requiring encyclopedia editors excise articles on bombs, ANFO, and Astrolite? How long before court transcripts are censored to remove forbidden knowledge? (Ironically, Keith Henson recently reported to me that a key piece of evidence offered up the Scientologists, in their "friend of the Toronto court" brief, was an e-mail to Cypherpunks where I mentioned Keith telling us at a local party how the McVeigh transcript "got it right" on the real formation of Astrolite in the OKC bombing. Apparently my citing of Keith's citing of CNN's citing of the McVeigh trial testimony was enough to mark Keith as a dangerous criminal. Interested Cypherpunks can retrieve this article by using the obvious keywords in a search at Google, for example.) The next point shows where this takes us: -- and as with "precursor chemicals," chemicals which _could_ be made into methamphetamines or Sarin or other banned items, there will be bans on "precursor knowledge." This is probably exactly what is happening now with the Rael group and their early work on human cloning. Odds are excellent that they are at least several years away from actually attempting a human cloning. It's the groundwork, the precursor knowledge, that the government is now cracking down on. A very disturbing trend. -- fortunately, these "warning shots" will perhaps accelerate a transition into cypherspace. --Tim May -- Timothy C. May tcmay at got.net Corralitos, California Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns From tcmay at got.net Tue Jul 3 13:26:44 2001 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 13:26:44 -0700 Subject: Kyllo: Taking the 5th on the 4th In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010703104644.04464fc0@pop3.lvcm.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010703104644.04464fc0@pop3.lvcm.com> Message-ID: At 11:09 AM -0700 7/3/01, Steve Schear wrote: >Although the ruling only appears to apply to one's home it does >raise questions whether citizens may have the right to prevent their >observation while in public. After all one is permitted tinted >windows on autos. Not in many places. At least here in California, and probably in many other states, there are restrictions on which windows may be tinted, and by how much. Despite certain city/county ordinances why not masks or helmets with tinted faceplates. My motorcycle helmet has a tinted faceplate. Very darkly tinted, in fact. (So dark that the vehicle code requires it be removed at night and replaced by a clear plate, or lifted up.) The whole issue of "going masked" is a murky one, legally. We have had many discussions of this over the years. Women wearing veils, men wearing beards, sunglasses, Halloween or other party masks, etc. I believe that a major constitutional challenge to "going masked for the purpose of going masked" laws would, by a court faithful to the U.S.C. and the Founders, be struck down. The need of a traffic cop to check for a valid driver's license, for example, can be met in much less restrictive ways than throwing someone in prison for wearing a wig which some judge deems to be a "disguise." (Not that there are many, if any, people sitting in prison today for the crime of "going masked for the purpose of going masked." Time to take the laws off the books, though, lest they be applied to cyberspace or to public camera countermeasures, as we are discussing here.) --Tim May -- Timothy C. May tcmay at got.net Corralitos, California Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns From tcmay at got.net Tue Jul 3 13:36:46 2001 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 13:36:46 -0700 Subject: Slashdot | Using GPS To Catch Speeders Found Illegal In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010703104317.039b2008@pop3.lvcm.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010703104317.039b2008@pop3.lvcm.com> Message-ID: At 10:43 AM -0700 7/3/01, Steve Schear wrote: >At 08:31 AM 7/3/2001 -0500, you wrote: >>http://slashdot.org/articles/01/07/03/0423218.shtml > >Somehow I feel we haven't heard the end of this.. I see people on Slashdot and various other fora cheering this. They don't understand the rights issues involved. The owner of a piece of property, such as a car, has the property and contract right to set up a contract as he sees fit. The first part of the ruling, that the contract was not clear enough, I can mostly accept. Future contracts will spell this out in more detail, in larger type fonts. And more people will have been exposed to the idea. There may be posters put up in rental offices. The second part of the ruling is an invalid attack on the property and contract rights of the owner of the property. --Tim May -- Timothy C. May tcmay at got.net Corralitos, California Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns From dog3 at charc.net Tue Jul 3 10:44:07 2001 From: dog3 at charc.net (cubic-dog) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 13:44:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Teach Me!!! In-Reply-To: <200106280101.VAA06932@divert.sendon.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Steve Thompson wrote: > > Quoting Codi (cmardom at yahoo.com): > > HI, Please teach me how to hack!!! > > 1) Buy a computer and take it home from store. No no no, This is our way to secure computers, Remove Hard drive and Ram and Bios chips Smash the rest with sledge hammer Give the hd, ram, bios to subordinate supervise subordinate smashing hd, ram, bios with sledgehammer. Supervise subordinate gathering remaining dust and dumping in incinerator. supervise gathering ashes and dumping into ocean. Kill subordinate kill self. result, reasonably secure. From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jul 3 12:00:40 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 14:00:40 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Cloning, miscarriange, and the 1st In-Reply-To: Message-ID: One other point... > On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Steve Schear wrote: > > > The problem with this argument is that despite the apparent religious > > agnosticism of the 1st, the moral basis upon which the SC has interpreted > > our laws is Judeo-Christian. Historically you've been protected from Not 'protected' but 'granted at the King's behest'. -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jul 3 12:05:28 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 14:05:28 -0500 Subject: "Eugenics: Its Definition, Scope and Aims" by Francis Galton Message-ID: <3B421778.3585559A@ssz.com> http://www.mugu.com/galton/essays/eugenics-scope-aims.htm -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jul 3 12:06:25 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 14:06:25 -0500 Subject: Glossary Definition: Eugenics Message-ID: <3B4217B1.3BC5303D@ssz.com> http://www.meta-library.net/gengloss/eugen-body.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jul 3 12:09:10 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 14:09:10 -0500 Subject: Eugenics: A discussion Message-ID: <3B421856.22E18FC1@ssz.com> http://homepages.tig.com.au/~kalon/eugenics/definition.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jul 3 12:13:35 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 14:13:35 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Kyllo: Taking the 5th on the 4th In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010703104644.04464fc0@pop3.lvcm.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Steve Schear wrote: > Although the ruling only appears to apply to one's home it does raise > questions whether citizens may have the right to prevent their observation > while in public. What has 'public' got to do with 'probable cause'? Amendment IV The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. > After all one is permitted tinted windows on autos. 'permitted' pretty much sinks your whole point. > Despite certain city/county ordinances why not masks or helmets > with tinted faceplates. What if exoskeletons become practical? Shouldn't > they be treated the same as an auto? You mean with license plates, and annual inspection? -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jul 3 12:31:24 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 14:31:24 -0500 Subject: Eugenics History - Tony Message-ID: <3B421D8C.F05F70D7@ssz.com> http://www.people.virginia.edu/~mol3r/oldhistory.htm -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jul 3 12:33:46 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 14:33:46 -0500 Subject: Eugenics Archive Message-ID: <3B421E1A.E3F24ABD@ssz.com> http://vector.cshl.org/eugenics/ -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From decoy at iki.fi Tue Jul 3 05:01:43 2001 From: decoy at iki.fi (Sampo Syreeni) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 15:01:43 +0300 (EEST) Subject: Banned Research and Raids on "Secret Labs" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Jul 2001, Trei, Peter wrote: >Cloning is far from a perfected technology - dozens of embryos are started >for each one that comes to term, and many that are born have severe >defects and die young. A lot that don't die young are pretty darn >unhealthy in various ways. That I didn't know. I've been under the impression that most failed cloning attempts result in a miscarriage. But, it really doesn't affect my point -- if we think that starting a pregnancy known to end in unhealthy babies gives the government a reason to intervene and incarcerate, then we also have to apply the same standard to those who smoke/use dope/live unhealthily during normal pregnancy. That is what I meant by the "unborn babies", the view that we should think of foetuses as first hand citizens with constitutional protection that is being violated when they're "made unhealthy". >A lot of the rhetoric seems to be on the level of 'this is just soooo >creepy'. Yep. That's even worse. >When cloning has a high success rate, and embryos which are going to >have problems after birth can be identified and culled at an early stage, >then I have no problem with human cloning. Until then, I'd rather people >did not try it (though, unlike the State, I would not stop them). That I can relate to. The point was less about whether cloning is ethical than about the right of the government to stop it. Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy, mailto:decoy at iki.fi, gsm: +358-50-5756111 student/math+cs/helsinki university, http://www.iki.fi/~decoy/front From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jul 3 13:11:14 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 15:11:14 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Italy Public Announcement (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 15:50:15 -0400 From: PA List Manager To: DOSTRAVEL at LISTS.STATE.GOV Subject: Italy Public Announcement ITALY Public Announcement July 3, 2001 >From July 20 to July 22, the city of Genoa in northwestern Italy will host the G-8 Summit, a meeting among heads of state and government from eight nations including the United States. There will be thousands of government officials, press representatives, and security personnel in Genoa. In addition, it is estimated that from fifty to eighty thousand or more demonstrators will be present before and during the Summit meeting period. As at past international meetings it is likely that some of the demonstrators will become disorderly or violent. If that occurs, clashes could result in injuries and/or arrests. Italian officials are working to minimize the potential for disruption. Access to many areas of the city, including well-known tourist sites, will be closed to the general public. Travelers to and through Genoa are likely to experience delays, detours, and limitations on their movement due to traffic and other restrictions. Travelers scheduled to arrive in or depart from Genoa via train, ferry, cruise ship, or plane during the Summit period should confirm with their companies whether there have been changes in their travel arrangements or instructions regarding travel to or from their points of arrival or departure. U.S. citizens, other than those with official Summit-related duties, should avoid travel to Genoa during the Summit period. Those who must travel to Genoa, should exercise caution, avoid any crowds or demonstrations, and monitor the local media to keep informed. The U.S. Embassy in Rome is located at Via Veneto 119A, telephone (24 hours) (39) 06-46741, fax (39) 06-4674-2217. The U.S. Consulate General in Milan is located at Via Principe Amadeo 2/10, telephone (39) 02-290351, fax (39) 02-2900-1165, and after-hours telephone (39) 02-2903-5928. For further information regarding travel to Italy, please consult the Department of State's latest Consular Information Sheet, which is available on the Internet at http://travel.state.gov. This Public Announcement expires on July 26, 2001. *********************************************************** See http://travel.state.gov/travel_warnings.html for State Department Travel Warnings ************************************************************ To change your subscription, go to http://www.state.gov/www/listservs_cms.html -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From tcmay at got.net Tue Jul 3 15:54:04 2001 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 15:54:04 -0700 Subject: Italy Public Announcement (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 3:11 PM -0500 7/3/01, Jim Choate wrote: >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 15:50:15 -0400 >From: PA List Manager >To: DOSTRAVEL at LISTS.STATE.GOV >Subject: Italy Public Announcement > >ITALY Public Announcement >July 3, 2001 > >>From July 20 to July 22, the city of Genoa in northwestern Italy will host >the G-8 Summit, a meeting among heads of state and government from eight >nations including the United States. There will be thousands of government >officials, press representatives, and security personnel in Genoa. Christ, Choate, it's bad enough that you spam us with whatever you think is of even slight technical interest, including stuff exported en masse from Slashdot. But could you _please_ knock of the spamming of us with junk from government announcement lists? I was doing some consolidating of very old documents, files, etc. from several of my older computers and I came across a tickler list I'd set to launch on my old Mac IIci when I booted it. The file was last edited in 1994, nearly 7 years ago. It had your name on it, along with half a dozen or so other names. "Jim Choate is clueless." Not much has changed in 7 years, except perhaps that you're more stridently clueless. --Tim May -- Timothy C. May tcmay at got.net Corralitos, California Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns From dial911book at yahoo.com Tue Jul 3 16:00:46 2001 From: dial911book at yahoo.com (Richard Stevens) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 16:00:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Matt -- we must protest when "our side" errs Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, The July 2001 Issue of NRA's America's First Freedom magazine featured a cover picture of John Ashcroft and highlighted the story of Ashcroft's letter indicating that "the Constitution protects the private ownership of firearms for lawful purposes." The magazine (at pp. 35-37) exults in the reversal of Justice Department policy on the Second Amendment. That's great. On page 37, the NRA reprints Ashcroft's letter -- as though it were *in full* -- but omits the footnote that exists in Ashcroft's actual letter. As you know, Ashcroft also said in that footnote in his letter that the Constitution "does not prohibit Congress from enacting laws restricting firearms ownership for compelling state interests, such as prohibiting firearms ownership by convicted felons." The NRA omitted a key element of Ashcroft's position - -- and then published the letter as though it were complete. That omission is a terrible distortion -- and seriously damages NRA's credibility with those of us who know the whole truth. What else might the NRA choose to omit, where the omission serves a PR purpose? Are their reports from the UN correct? Their reports about lobbying efforts and the positions taken by NRA-backed candidates? I wonder who at the NRA thought it was a good idea to distort the facts, and conceal the somewhat negative truth, just to advance the appearance of NRA success? That's the conduct we came to expect from HCI & Co. ... now it has infected the NRA. Members like me should demand the NRA publish an accounting of this mistake, fire the person who made the mistake, apologize and repent from such conduct. - --Richard Stevens (my personal views only) ********************************************************************** **** Subscribe to Freematt's Alerts: Pro-Individual Rights Issues Send a blank message to: freematt at coil.com with the words subscribe FA on the subject line. List is private and moderated (7-30 messages per week) Matthew Gaylor, (614) 313-5722 ICQ: 106212065 Archived at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fa/ ********************************************************************** **** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.8 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBO2VEUBj6oMyeDxZoEQKwzACgtgENpYvs3Oz6LEf2b04MDO6LMGUAmgPm FTy4IcWnLsgciXWgV25+IeDS =NOgR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C118EA.706C6390 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" RE: General Ashcroft make his move

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I get the NRA's American Rifleman magazine. The July issue also has
an article about Ashcroft's letter, which does not quote the rather
lengthy footnote. However, it does contain a legible image of BOTH
pages of the letter, including the ENTIRE text of the footnote. This
is hardly the action of an organization bent on distorting Ashcroft's
view on the Second Amendment. Stupid editing on the part of the
America's First Freedom team, perhaps, but not an organization-wide
conspiracy.

Jonathan Wienke

- -----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Gaylor [mailto:freematt at coil.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 12:01 PM
To: George at Orwellian.Org
Cc: cypherpunks at cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: General Ashcroft make his move


[Note from Matthew Gaylor:  Richard Stevens is author of the recent
book "Dial 911 and Die" published by the Jews for the Preservation of
Firearms Ownership.   http://www.jpfo.org ]

Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 16:00:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Richard Stevens <dial911book at yahoo.com>
Subject: Matt -- we must protest when "our side" errs
To: Matthew Gaylor <freematt at coil.com>

Dear Colleagues,

The July 2001 Issue of NRA's America's First Freedom
magazine featured a cover picture of John Ashcroft and
highlighted the story of Ashcroft's letter indicating
that "the Constitution protects the private ownership
of firearms for lawful purposes."  The magazine (at
pp. 35-37) exults in the reversal of Justice
Department policy on the Second Amendment.

That's great.  On page 37, the NRA reprints Ashcroft's
letter -- as though it were *in full* -- but omits the
footnote that exists in Ashcroft's actual letter.

As you know, Ashcroft also said in that footnote in
his letter that the Constitution "does not prohibit
Congress from enacting laws restricting firearms
ownership for compelling state interests, such as
prohibiting firearms ownership by convicted felons."

The NRA omitted a key element of Ashcroft's position
- -- and then published the letter as though it were
complete.

That omission is a terrible distortion -- and
seriously damages NRA's credibility with those of us
who know the whole truth.  What else might the NRA
choose to omit, where the omission serves a PR
purpose?  Are their reports from the UN correct?
Their reports about lobbying efforts and the positions
taken by NRA-backed candidates?

I wonder who at the NRA thought it was a good idea to
distort the facts, and conceal the somewhat negative
truth, just to advance the appearance of NRA success?
That's the conduct we came to expect from HCI & Co.
... now it has infected the NRA.

Members like me should demand the NRA publish an
accounting of this mistake, fire the person who made
the mistake, apologize and repent from such conduct.

- --Richard Stevens
(my personal views only)

**********************************************************************
****
Subscribe to Freematt's Alerts: Pro-Individual Rights Issues
Send a blank message to: freematt at coil.com with the words subscribe
FA
on the subject line. List is private and moderated (7-30 messages per
week)
Matthew Gaylor, (614) 313-5722  ICQ: 106212065   Archived at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fa/
**********************************************************************
****

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------_=_NextPart_001_01C118EA.706C6390-- From dial911book at yahoo.com Tue Jul 3 16:00:46 2001 From: dial911book at yahoo.com (Richard Stevens) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 16:00:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Matt -- we must protest when "our side" errs Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, The July 2001 Issue of NRA's America's First Freedom magazine featured a cover picture of John Ashcroft and highlighted the story of Ashcroft's letter indicating that "the Constitution protects the private ownership of firearms for lawful purposes." The magazine (at pp. 35-37) exults in the reversal of Justice Department policy on the Second Amendment. That's great. On page 37, the NRA reprints Ashcroft's letter -- as though it were *in full* -- but omits the footnote that exists in Ashcroft's actual letter. As you know, Ashcroft also said in that footnote in his letter that the Constitution "does not prohibit Congress from enacting laws restricting firearms ownership for compelling state interests, such as prohibiting firearms ownership by convicted felons." The NRA omitted a key element of Ashcroft's position -- and then published the letter as though it were complete. That omission is a terrible distortion -- and seriously damages NRA's credibility with those of us who know the whole truth. What else might the NRA choose to omit, where the omission serves a PR purpose? Are their reports from the UN correct? Their reports about lobbying efforts and the positions taken by NRA-backed candidates? I wonder who at the NRA thought it was a good idea to distort the facts, and conceal the somewhat negative truth, just to advance the appearance of NRA success? That's the conduct we came to expect from HCI & Co. ... now it has infected the NRA. Members like me should demand the NRA publish an accounting of this mistake, fire the person who made the mistake, apologize and repent from such conduct. --Richard Stevens (my personal views only) ************************************************************************** Subscribe to Freematt's Alerts: Pro-Individual Rights Issues Send a blank message to: freematt at coil.com with the words subscribe FA on the subject line. List is private and moderated (7-30 messages per week) Matthew Gaylor, (614) 313-5722 ICQ: 106212065 Archived at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fa/ ************************************************************************** From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jul 3 14:10:27 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 16:10:27 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Slashdot | Using GPS To Catch Speeders Found Illegal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Tim May wrote: > The second part of the ruling is an invalid attack on the property > and contract rights of the owner of the property. The rental agency has no(!!!) authority under law to enforce speeding regulations. If they find that a leasee has violated a law by getting a ticket or whatever then they certainly have the right to protect their property by refusing or raising rates on future rentals, but to impose 'fines' is simply wrong, they do not represent the civil authority in charge of the road. It would certainly be sufficient evidence to bring charges of reckless driving or whatever, but the final determination of 'guilt' and the consequences thereof are up to the CIVIL authorities and not the owner of the property. -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jul 3 14:16:53 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 16:16:53 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Kyllo: Taking the 5th on the 4th In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Tim May wrote: > The whole issue of "going masked" is a murky one, legally. No, it isn't. While police certainly need 'probably cause' to institute a search there are NO (zero, nadah, nil, nul, none) requirements on citizens to wear any particular part or type of clothing (or not wear it even). Any such law would violate the 1st. -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jul 3 14:18:24 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 16:18:24 -0500 (CDT) Subject: A perfect example of what's wrong with modern legal thinking Message-ID: Milosevic claims that he won't enter a plea so the judge does it for him, instead of entering 'no plea on grounds of jurisdiction'. -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From unicorn at schloss.li Tue Jul 3 16:26:22 2001 From: unicorn at schloss.li (Black Unicorn) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 16:26:22 -0700 Subject: Choatian Disorders Explained References: Message-ID: <002701c10417$931c0310$2d010a0a@thinkpad574> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim May" To: "Jim Choate" ; "The Club Inferno" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 3:54 PM Subject: Re: Italy Public Announcement (fwd) > At 3:11 PM -0500 7/3/01, Jim Choate wrote: [Absolutely nothing worth quoting.] Mr. May replied: > Christ, Choate, it's bad enough that you spam us with whatever you > think is of even slight technical interest, including stuff exported > en masse from Slashdot. > > But could you _please_ knock of the spamming of us with junk from > government announcement lists? > > I was doing some consolidating of very old documents, files, etc. > from several of my older computers and I came across a tickler list > I'd set to launch on my old Mac IIci when I booted it. The file was > last edited in 1994, nearly 7 years ago. It had your name on it, > along with half a dozen or so other names. > > "Jim Choate is clueless." > > Not much has changed in 7 years, except perhaps that you're more > stridently clueless. > > --Tim May I have all Choate's many addresses filtered but stuff coming from others discussing Choate still gets through. (Note to self: fix this). I'm pretty convinced that Mr. Choate just needs the attention so badly that he doesn't care. The more we complain about his nonsense the more determined he is to send more nonsense out. I was cleaning out my cypherpunk archives of all things Choate. I have a big folder called 'spam' that I USED to dump all Choatisms- along with the porn, get rich quick and penis enlargement solicitations, to for later quick review prior to disposal. Now I dump the Choate stuff directly to the trash. The penis enlargement solicitations still go into the 'spam' folder. They are far more entertaining than Choate. Anyhow, while cleaning these out I discovered this: (begin quote) From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jul 3 14:33:51 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 16:33:51 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Side effect of allowing car agencies to fine for speed violations Message-ID: Assume Tim's point is valid, that the owner of a vehicle may 'fine' a 'borrower' of their property for violations of the owners intent (eg follow the public speed laws). Since I own my private vehicle then I have the 'right by owner' to give myself amnesty for any speeding violations I might commit. -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From kurtbuff at lightmail.com Tue Jul 3 17:12:38 2001 From: kurtbuff at lightmail.com (Kurt Buff) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 17:12:38 -0700 Subject: How does a machine... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <006c01c1041e$099b7ec0$1506050a@bfgapollo1> It doesn't. Do some investigation on forensics, and you'll find the obvious thing: People testify that they are expert at understanding how the machine in question operates, and are qualified understand the machine's output, and to interpret the results, summarizing them for the jury. Happens regularly in court. | | give an oath to tell the truth and nothing but the truth? | | | -- | | ____________________________________________________________________ | | Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. | | Ludwig Wittgenstein Looks like you haven't learned this lesson yet... From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jul 3 15:43:56 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 17:43:56 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Another problem with 'automated enforcement' Message-ID: How do you call a video camera to the stand to give their deposition as to the situation in which the photo was taken? -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jul 3 15:57:48 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 17:57:48 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Calling witnesses Message-ID: Can one call an animal as a witness? -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jul 3 16:01:07 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 18:01:07 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Can a Message-ID: Gas Chromatograph or a DNA Sequencer in and of itself give testimony? Does the defendant have a right to cross examine any(!) 'entity' which provides evidence in a trial? -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jul 3 16:03:07 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 18:03:07 -0500 (CDT) Subject: How does a machine... Message-ID: give an oath to tell the truth and nothing but the truth? -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jul 3 16:06:23 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 18:06:23 -0500 Subject: parrot Message-ID: <3B424FEF.405C3F@ssz.com> http://grimpeur.tamu.edu/~colin/Papers/parrot.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From declan at well.com Tue Jul 3 15:13:30 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 18:13:30 -0400 Subject: Slashdot | Using GPS To Catch Speeders Found Illegal In-Reply-To: ; from ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com on Tue, Jul 03, 2001 at 04:10:27PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010703181330.A27644@cluebot.com> Huh? This is Choatian nonsense. If the speed limits were 85 mph and a rental car company decided it only wanted drivers to go 65 mph, they could put this in their contract and enforce if, if they so choose. If they misjudge and drivers really, really want to go 85 mph, they will lose business. Such are the gusting winds of the market. You may reasonably say that private companies should not be the enforcement arms of the state, but they should be allowed to make their own decisions when voluntarily choosing to do so. -Declan PS: Of more cypherpunk relevance, perhaps, is the greater role that insurance companies would play in the absence of government speed limits. You may have to pay more in insurance to drive faster, for instance. On Tue, Jul 03, 2001 at 04:10:27PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Tim May wrote: > > > The second part of the ruling is an invalid attack on the property > > and contract rights of the owner of the property. > > The rental agency has no(!!!) authority under law to enforce speeding > regulations. If they find that a leasee has violated a law by getting a > ticket or whatever then they certainly have the right to protect their > property by refusing or raising rates on future rentals, but to impose > 'fines' is simply wrong, they do not represent the civil authority in > charge of the road. It would certainly be sufficient evidence to bring > charges of reckless driving or whatever, but the final determination of > 'guilt' and the consequences thereof are up to the CIVIL authorities and > not the owner of the property. > > > -- > ____________________________________________________________________ > > Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. > > Ludwig Wittgenstein > > The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate > Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com > www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 > -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- > -------------------------------------------------------------------- From declan at well.com Tue Jul 3 15:19:43 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 18:19:43 -0400 Subject: Side effect of allowing car agencies to fine for speed violations In-Reply-To: ; from ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com on Tue, Jul 03, 2001 at 04:33:51PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010703181943.D27644@cluebot.com> Well, yes, but only for violations of your own contract with yourself. -Declan On Tue, Jul 03, 2001 at 04:33:51PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > Since I own my private vehicle then I have the 'right by owner' to give > myself amnesty for any speeding violations I might commit. From deposito at eastmail.com Tue Jul 3 18:19:59 2001 From: deposito at eastmail.com (deposito at eastmail.com) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 18:19:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: REGISTRE EL SUYO AHORA Message-ID: <200107040119.SAA04630@toad.com> Si tiene una empresa en marcha, un proyecto o una idea registre su dominio en Internet AHORA, tal vez ma嚙窮na sea demasiado tarde. Proteja su nombre en Internet. Si tiene ya dominio y ha de renovarlo proximamente transfiera el dominio por solo 20$ lo tendra un a嚙緻 renovado (esta operacion no afecta al hospedaje, solo al registrador del dominio) Si conoce a alguien en esta situacion y no sabe que regalarle regalele un dominio, es original y quedara bien. Vea toda la informacion referente al registro de dominios en http://dom.4d2.net/ REGALE UN DOMINIO O REGISTRE EL SUYO Otros servicios: hospedaje, redireccion de dominio, ...etc 嚙瘡AS DE RENOVAR EL REGISTRO DE TU DOMINIO? PRECIO ESPECIAL POR TRANSFERENCIA DE DOMINIO (20$ A嚙瞌) PRECIO DE HOSTING IMBATIBLE -----------------------REMOVE------------------------------ SI NO QUIERE RECIBIR MAS MENSAJES DESDE ESTA DIRECCION VAYA AL LINK INDICADO Y SERA DADO DE BAJA INMEDIATAMENTE. DICHO LINK ES UN SERVICIO INDEPENDIENTE DEL ENVIO DE ESTE EMAIL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dar de baja de la lista de distribucion - remove distribution list http://borrame.fadlan.com/ RemovingNet. Cuentas gratuitas para el control de bajas. Free accounts for the control of "unsubscribes" RemovingNet nada tiene que ver con este email ni con su contenido RemovingNet nothing has to do with this email nor with contained his ---------------------------------------------------------------- IF YOU DON'T WANT TO RECEIVE MORE MESSAGES FROM US, PLEASE CLICK ON THE LINK BELOW. http://borrame.fadlan.com/ YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS WILL BE REMOVED FROM OUR DATA BASE IMMEDIATELY. REMOVING.NET IS AN INDEPENDENT SERVICE -----------------------REMOVE------------------------------ From petro at bounty.org Tue Jul 3 18:44:59 2001 From: petro at bounty.org (petro) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 18:44:59 -0700 Subject: Kyllo: Taking the 5th on the 4th In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010703104644.04464fc0@pop3.lvcm.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010703104644.04464fc0@pop3.lvcm.com> Message-ID: >Although the ruling only appears to apply to one's home it does >raise questions whether citizens may have the right to prevent their >observation while in public. After all one is permitted tinted >windows on autos. Despite certain Not everywhere, and even then not all windows. >city/county ordinances why not masks or helmets with tinted >faceplates. What if exoskeletons become practical? Shouldn't they >be treated the same as an auto? > >steve -- -- http://www.apa.org/journals/psp/psp7761121.html It is one of the essential features of such incompetence that the person so afflicted is incapable of knowing that he is incompetent. To have such knowledge would already be to remedy a good portion of the offense. From petro at bounty.org Tue Jul 3 18:51:06 2001 From: petro at bounty.org (petro) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 18:51:06 -0700 Subject: Cloning, miscarriange, and the 1st In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010703111115.008d9100@pop.sprynet.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20010703111115.008d9100@pop.sprynet.com> Message-ID: >At 08:22 AM 7/3/01 -0500, Jim Choate wrote: >> >>Eugenics - the management of reproductive choice by the state. >> > >No. No more than your choice of reading materials is censorship. > >If I chose not to publish or buy text-X its not censorship. >If the government interferes, it is. > >Now if I choose a spawning mate based on their apparent fitness >(as judged by me), this is personal 'eugenics', and its fine morally. >(Similarly with those who voluntarily delegate the choice to >family members.) > >Now if the State does the choosing, its coercion by the state, which >was pretty tainted by the German Socialists a generation or two >ago, regardless of the possible future benefits, even if 'fitness' is >agreed upon by all. Regardless of the benefits, its coercion. > >Private choice vs. Coercion by the State. Simple. Not all >choice is censorship, or bad eugenics. Huh? Did you read what he said? As much as I hate to stand up for Choate, you seem to be reiterating his point--that Eugenics is management of reproductive choice by the state. Normally enough, Merriam-Webster and dictionary.com both disagree. I tried the OED, but they want $550 a year for access. Sorry guys. >Aside: When the State enslaves 'fit' citizens as soldiers, some fraction of >which are taken out of the gene pool, an indirect form of eugenics >(animal husbandry) is taking place. Selection against 1As >and carriers of patriotism traits, for instance. But the *really* good ones, and the absolute cowards come back to breed. -- -- http://www.apa.org/journals/psp/psp7761121.html It is one of the essential features of such incompetence that the person so afflicted is incapable of knowing that he is incompetent. To have such knowledge would already be to remedy a good portion of the offense. From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jul 3 17:16:24 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 19:16:24 -0500 Subject: Slashdot | Quantum Mechanics Symposium Message-ID: <3B426058.83EAEE05@ssz.com> http://slashdot.org/science/01/07/03/1248219.shtml -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jul 3 17:20:15 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 19:20:15 -0500 (CDT) Subject: How does a machine... In-Reply-To: <006c01c1041e$099b7ec0$1506050a@bfgapollo1> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Kurt Buff wrote: > It doesn't. Do some investigation on forensics, and you'll find the obvious > thing: People testify that they are expert at understanding how the machine > in question operates, and are qualified understand the machine's output, and > to interpret the results, summarizing them for the jury. You're almost there, the key word is 'operate'. -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From YourMembership2 at AEOpublishing.com Tue Jul 3 17:43:07 2001 From: YourMembership2 at AEOpublishing.com ('Your Membership' Editor) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 20:43:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Your Membership Exchange Message-ID: <20010704004307.5D6B43A398@rovdb001.roving.com> Your Membership Exchange, Issue #425 (July 3, 2001) Your place to exchange ideas, ask questions, swap links, and share your skills! You are a member in at least one of these programs
- You should be in them all!
BannersGoMLM.com
ProfitBanners.com
CashPromotions.com
MySiteInc.com
TimsHomeTownStories.com
FreeLinksNetwork.com
MyShoppingPlace.com
BannerCo-op.com
PutPEEL.com
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SELLinternetACCESS.com
Be-Your-Own-ISP.com
SeventhPower.com

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______________________________________________________

>> Moderator Comment

>> Q & A
   QUESTIONS:
     - Starting an ezine?
   ANSWERS:
     - Using pictures as links?
       C. Hall: Use alt tags for descriptions

>> MEMBER SHOWCASES

>> MEMBER *REVIEWS*
     - Sites to Review: #126, #127, #128 & #129!
     - Site #125 Reviewed!
     - Thanks for the helpful input!
______________________________________________________

>>>>>> Moderator Comment <<<<<<

Hello Everyone!
I just wanted to let you know the Your Membership Exchange
will not be sent on Wednesday, July 4th, and Thursday,
July 5, as we celebrate Independence Day here in the U.S.
and take a few days off.  I hope everyone has a safe and
enjoyable holiday, and I'll see you again next week!
 

>>>>>> QUESTIONS & ANSWERS <<<<<<

QUESTIONS:

From: Truman D  - trumans at email.msn.com
Subject: Starting an ezine?

I have the content... now here's the question

Where do I go to learn HOW TO BUILD MY OWN EZINE..

EXAMPLE...
1.. I  turn on my computer..
2. NOW.. where do I go to start  building the ezine or
   newsletter???

Thanks for any help you may give me.

Trumans at email.msn.com
Keep it Honest..Keep it simple
Get Smarter..Faster...Now
http://www.newbieclub.com?zimmersell
 

ANSWERS:

From: Carol L S Hall  -  carol at floridarental.co.uk
Subject: Use alt tags for descriptions

>From: moviebuff at cliffhanger.com
>Subject: Using pictures as links? - Issue #423
>
- - > I'm changing my website and want to use pictures for the
links to other pages. But, someone told me I should still
put a 'click here' underneath all the pictures. How can
I get across that you click on the pictures to get to other
pages without coming right out and saying so? < - -

Hi -
You just need to use alt tags for your link pictures - when a
mouse is moved over the pics, the alt tags saying 'Click here
for.....' will come up and everyone will know they are links.

Carol Hall
All great Florida vacations start at
http://www.floridarental.co.uk
______________________________________________________
 

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______________________________________________________

>>>>>> MEMBER *REVIEWS* <<<<<<

Visit these sites, look for what you like and any suggestions
you can offer, and send your critique to MyInput
And, after reviewing three sites, your web site will be added to
the list! It's fun, easy, and it's a great opportunity to give
some help and receive an informative review of your own site.
Plus, you can also win a chance to have y our site chosen for
a free website redesign. One randomly drawn winner each month!
 

SITES TO REVIEW:

Site #126: http://www.EClassifiedshq.com
Carol Cohen
Opp0rtunity at aol.com

Site #127: http://www.allbizservices.com/win
Patty Baldwin
patty at allbizservices.com

Site #128: http://www.fabulousincome.com
Kay Strong
strongone at door.net

Site #129: http://www.mlmAnonymous.com
Tom Corbett
Tom.corbett at fuse.net

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

SITE REVIEWED

Comments on Site #125: http://www.wedeliverparties.com
Dawn Clemons
dclemons7 at home.com
~~~~

The site looks nice and professional. I really like the
nav bar, it is helpful. The "What's Hot" page needs work.
It is all jumbled together. Some cell spacing, or cell
padding in a table will fix it all up.
~~~~

I have no doubt that there are those who will use the
services of this website, but my question is, why, unless
you live in a remote area? Most of the things they list
can be obtained readily at such places as Wal-Mart, Paper
Warehouse, etc etc, and you see 'em when you buy 'em -
you don't have to wait to have things shipped to you.
Also, the triple-window effect is distracting.

~~~~

I find the color scheme not always very well chosen: it is
not easy to read white text on yellow background.

I would prefer to see more of the main page. The left border
is OK (a little smaller would be better), but the top border
takes up too much space (almost 1/2 of my screen, I use 800x600).

I suppose there is an error in the border of Party Planning,
the summing up makes no sense to me. Also when choosing the
FamilyPages, the contents of the border changes instead of
the main page.

The site is quite easy to navigate, there is (almost always)
a "Back to Main Page" button present. Personally I would
aim to have all sub-menus look the same (font, fontsize,
line spacing,..).

The site has a good "look", but I think it needs some more
checking for minor errors or broken links. I find consistency
in look and structure very important. In choosing some of
their product lines, once you get a new popup window with
a whole different look, at other times the (small)main page
gives you the information. Better go for one option and
apply this to all similar pages.

As my last remark, I personally like the color schemes of
the products pages better. The colors are much brighter.
These pages look more inviting and get you in the mood
for a party !

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

THANKS FOR REVIEW!

From: Shirley Turetsky  - interactiveopinions at email.com
Subject: Thanks for the helpful input

I just wanted to thank those who have visited my site and
took the time to review. All their comments were very helpful.

I changed the margins on my front page and I realized my index
needed some direction. Oh I did get rid of the second welcome.
Thanks for the suggestion. I also added how to get rid of the
pop-ups while searching my site. And I hope to be getting a
domain for my site soon.

Again, Thank You for all the helpful suggestions. This is my
first experience creating a site and your comments have helped
me make it better. You really don't know how helpful this has
been. What a great experience!

Mrs T
Interactive Opinions at: http://www.angelfire.com/fl3/mrstgifts
I am very happy that most did enjoy what I had to offer.

moderator: Amy Mossel  Moderator
posting:   MyInput at AEOpublishing.com
______________________________________________________

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   MyInput at AEOpublishing.com
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Copyright 2001 AEOpublishing

----- End of Your Membership Exchange ------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------ This email has been sent to cypherpunks at cyberpass.net at your request, by Your Membership Newsletter Services. Visit our Subscription Center to edit your interests or unsubscribe. http://ccprod.roving.com/roving/d.jsp?p=oo&id=bd7n7877.4btka567&m=bd7n7877&ea=cypherpunks at cyberpass.net View our privacy policy: http://ccprod.roving.com/roving/CCPrivacyPolicy.jsp Powered by Constant Contact(R) www.constantcontact.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 16345 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juicy at melontraffickers.com Tue Jul 3 20:49:45 2001 From: juicy at melontraffickers.com (A. Melon) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 20:49:45 -0700 Subject: Prying Eyes Message-ID: About what I thought --- there was talk on the cpunks list about using paintball guns to blind cameras such as those down in Tampa being used by the cops to scan everybody looking for people with outstanding warrants, but I'd think it would be difficult. Also it was suggested to use RC blimps with spray guns, a much better idea, I'd think. Also not so noticeable as pulling out a paint gun in public and blazing away, which might get you arrested. Or shot. A blimp could be easily controlled w/o anyone knowing who. It might even be made to just look like a bunch of mulitcolored ballons that escaped, complete with dangling strings. > > How accurate are paint ball guns? > > Not great. The ATS full auto gun I have is much better than the average > semi-auto, especially with the autosizer (paint from different > manufacturers comes in slightly different sizes which has a big effect > on accuracy). > > But even still, its not like shooting even a pellet gun - more like any > old daisy single pump. You can hit a fedex box at 30 ft pretty easy - > but you're just lobbing a paint ball - < 300fps, big fat wobbly thing, > frustrating really. From dave at farber.net Tue Jul 3 18:02:48 2001 From: dave at farber.net (David Farber) Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 21:02:48 -0400 Subject: IP: Celebrating the Fourth Message-ID: >To: David Farber >From: Whitfield Diffie > > Tuesday 3 July 2001 at 17h45 > > In 1994, I sent the following message to the Cypherpunks" > > From: whitfield.diffie at Eng.Sun.COM > To: cypherpunks at toad.com > Subject: Celebrating the 4th > Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 at 13h01 > > On the 4th of July 1993, I walked out of my house and saw my > neighbor's flag flying from the porch. I thought: ``I have no flag > to fly; how shall I celebrate Independence Day?'' I went back > inside and got Gunther's Casebook in Constitutional Law. At > breakfast, I re-read the Constitution. A practice I recommend to > all of you. > > I subsequently acquired online copies of the Constitution, and the > even more appropriate Declaration of Independence from Danny Weitzner > at EFF. Plain TeX copies are attached below, separated by a > --- cut here --- line. > (snip) > >(It seemed corny but I couldn't figure out how to improve on it since it >was true.) Today the Constitution and the Declaration are readily >available on the web and still worth reading once a year. > > Whit For archives see: http://www.interesting-people.org/ --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at wasabisystems.com -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From amaha at vsnl.net Tue Jul 3 09:25:53 2001 From: amaha at vsnl.net (Fountain Of Joy) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 21:55:53 +0530 (IST) Subject: Thought-A-Day Message-ID: <20010703162553.2A90B53D@mmb1.vsnl.net.in> PERCEPTION If you are distressed by anything external,the pain is not due to the thing itself but to your own estimate of it; and this you have the power to revoke at any moment. --Marcus Aurelius ********************************************************************************** Your name has been recommended to receive thoughts of wisdom from Fountain of Joy. These thoughts will be delivered, free of cost, to your desktop,everyday, for an initial evaluation period. We believe that the meaningful insights of these carefully selected thoughts will make your life peaceful,successful & happy in a way you had never imagined before. However, if you desire to unsubscribe, reply to this email with 'remove' in the subject line. Director, Fountain of Joy (Non-religious Organisation) From bear at sonic.net Tue Jul 3 21:59:42 2001 From: bear at sonic.net (Ray Dillinger) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 21:59:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Kyllo: Taking the 5th on the 4th In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Jim Choate wrote: >On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Tim May wrote: > >> The whole issue of "going masked" is a murky one, legally. > >No, it isn't. While police certainly need 'probably cause' to institute a >search there are NO (zero, nadah, nil, nul, none) requirements on citizens >to wear any particular part or type of clothing (or not wear it even). Any >such law would violate the 1st. So I can go out in public nude, and not expect to be arrested? Wrong. While, in absolute terms, the right to free expression ought to include the right to nudity, in practice it does not. As a male, I am *required*, by the state, to wear something that covers up the dangly bits when I go out in public. The state also refuses to license establishments to serve food unless those establishments have a clear policy refusing admittance to barefoot people. Does the state require me to wear shoes, or is it their puppets the shopkeepers who do so? Does it matter? NO. Shoes are also required for all riders of state-sponsored public transit. I support the right of antisocial people to smear themselves with green jello and run naked with scissors around the block flapping their arms and shouting "splee three frooks!" if they want to, but the state does not agree. There are also types of clothing that I am forbidden by the state to wear; I had a friend in Kansas City who cross-dressed once and got busted for -- I kid you not -- "Intent to defraud." Since he was wearing a full beard at the time, I don't know anyone who'd have fallen for his supposed fraud, but let us just say that if you are a man dressed in women's clothing, the law enforcement agencies of a lot of places will go out of their way to find a law to charge you with. Unconstitutional? Sure. Standard Practice? Absolutely. Don't go spouting off that these laws *don't* exist just because they *ought* not exist. Someone who doesn't know you may actually believe you and wind up in jail. Bear From bear at sonic.net Tue Jul 3 22:08:15 2001 From: bear at sonic.net (Ray Dillinger) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 22:08:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Side effect of allowing car agencies to fine for speed violations In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Jim Choate wrote: >Assume Tim's point is valid, that the owner of a vehicle may 'fine' a >'borrower' of their property for violations of the owners intent (eg >follow the public speed laws). > >Since I own my private vehicle then I have the 'right by owner' to give >myself amnesty for any speeding violations I might commit. > As usual, you are confusing civil law with contract law. A contract may hold someone to penalties which are not part of civil law. This has no effect on whether there are also penalties for something in civil law. In your example, you as owner of the car may hold people who lease your car responsible to pay *you* $100 every time they spit out the window. If spitting out the window also happens to be illegal, then Officer Friendly can write them a ticket for it at the same time. The state penalty is separate from the contract obligation. If you then magnanimously exempt yourself from the civil obligation when you lease the car from yourself, Officer Friendly can still bust you for spitting out the window if you find yourself in a jurisdiction where that's illegal. The fact that you don't (or do) also owe yourself money has no bearing on the criminal case. Bear From bear at sonic.net Tue Jul 3 22:18:49 2001 From: bear at sonic.net (Ray Dillinger) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 22:18:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Calling witnesses In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Jim Choate wrote: >Can one call an animal as a witness? Bloodhounds were for a long time considered admissible in cases involving scent tracking, and may still be in some jurisdictions -- but I don't know whether they counted as "witnesses" or "evidence". Note that courtroom procedure calls for witnesses to be sworn in, and unless someone could convince a judge that the animal understood the concept of an oath and what was being sworn, that could probably be used to disqualify any animal "witness". Other than that though, the question is not interesting except in the case of language-using animals -- presently limited to apes and chimps trained to use sign language, and a few african Gray Parrots that seem to use speech in a symbolic rather than mimicking way. (Possibly also Dolphins and Orcas, but we're not sure yet and translation efforts have yielded limited results at best.) I've never heard of anyone attempting to call a language-using animal as a witness. When it happens, there will probably be a ruling. Bear From ravage at ssz.com Tue Jul 3 20:31:43 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 22:31:43 -0500 (CDT) Subject: IP: Celebrating the Fourth (fwd) Message-ID: Happy 4'th! ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 21:43:33 -0400 From: "R. A. Hettinga" To: Digital Bearer Settlement List , dcsb at ai.mit.edu, e$@vmeng.com, cryptography at wasabisystems.com Subject: IP: Celebrating the Fourth --- begin forwarded text From askusnow at getresponse.com Wed Jul 4 00:06:46 2001 From: askusnow at getresponse.com (askusnow at getresponse.com) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 00:06:46 -0700 Subject: I heard you were looking for a business opportunity Message-ID: <341720017347646830@alphadelta> Hello, If your like me, you've already deleted mail from dozens of "Get Rich Quick" schemes, chain letter offers, and LOTS of other absurd scams that promise to make you rich overnight with no investment and no work. 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--------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dm128 at microconnect.net Tue Jul 3 23:11:10 2001 From: dm128 at microconnect.net (David) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 02:11:10 -0400 Subject: Calling witnesses--[On a tangent] References: Message-ID: <000d01c10450$2057e310$778d7c3f@Annabell> On a more or less off topic tangent, Do you think as far as the intelligence and competency of these language speaking and otherwise intelligent animals, If it was proven that they were equally or more so then ourself(the human race), could we admitt to that fact? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Dillinger" To: "Jim Choate" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 1:18 AM Subject: CDR: Re: Calling witnesses > > > On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Jim Choate wrote: > > >Can one call an animal as a witness? > > Bloodhounds were for a long time considered admissible in cases > involving scent tracking, and may still be in some jurisdictions -- > but I don't know whether they counted as "witnesses" or "evidence". > > Note that courtroom procedure calls for witnesses to be sworn in, > and unless someone could convince a judge that the animal understood > the concept of an oath and what was being sworn, that could probably > be used to disqualify any animal "witness". > > Other than that though, the question is not interesting except > in the case of language-using animals -- presently limited to apes > and chimps trained to use sign language, and a few african Gray > Parrots that seem to use speech in a symbolic rather than mimicking > way. > > (Possibly also Dolphins and Orcas, but we're not sure yet and > translation efforts have yielded limited results at best.) > > I've never heard of anyone attempting to call a language-using > animal as a witness. When it happens, there will probably be > a ruling. > > Bear > > > > From summer357us at yahoo.com Wed Jul 4 05:10:23 2001 From: summer357us at yahoo.com (Making Money) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 05:10:23 Subject: Making Money By Sending E-mail ! Message-ID: <200107041212.f64CCZj16887@rigel.cyberpass.net> Hi , Looking to Make Money Go to www.emailmarketingrus.com Then call me or E-mail me and I will show you HOW !!!! timothy From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jul 4 06:58:49 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 08:58:49 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Of Art, Earthquakes, Image Processing And Restoration In-Reply-To: <20010704112204.C23178@tornado-openbsd.internal.yourcreativesolutions.nl> Message-ID: Look under a microscope some time. On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Wouter Slegers wrote: > Obviously. But to use the texture classification method for > 'deshredding', the paper must consist of multiple distinct textures or > else you will not get any information out of the method besides the type > of paper used. For deshredding, the likelyhood of two pieces of > paper being previously attached is needed. > So for this to be usable on paper, paper needs to have significantly > varying texture. For rice-paper, parchment and watermarks I can see this > work, but for normal paper?? Does anyone have experience in this or a > cite? -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jul 4 07:01:22 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 09:01:22 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Happy 4th: A Cold War Observation Message-ID: The Communist learned capitalism. The Democrtist lost individual freedom. A happy middle of the road compromise. -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jul 4 07:08:23 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 09:08:23 -0500 Subject: Slashdot | Copyrights and Copywrongs Message-ID: <3B432357.FD220333@ssz.com> http://slashdot.org/articles/01/07/04/0026226.shtml -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jul 4 07:20:26 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 09:20:26 -0500 (CDT) Subject: A perfect example of what's wrong with modern legal thinking In-Reply-To: <20010704110234.B23178@tornado-openbsd.internal.yourcreative solutions.nl> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Wouter Slegers wrote: > Hmmm, in the news here in the Netherlands a Dutch law professor > said that a guilty plea from Milosevic would obviate the "(dis)proving > of guilt"-part of the trial and everything would therefor move to > determining the measure of punishment. "disproving of guilt"...nothing more needs to be said. -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From schear at lvcm.com Wed Jul 4 09:36:31 2001 From: schear at lvcm.com (Steve Schear) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 09:36:31 -0700 Subject: Slashdot | Using GPS To Catch Speeders Found Illegal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010704093410.03a35008@pop3.lvcm.com> At 04:10 PM 7/3/2001 -0500, Jim Choate wrote: >On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Tim May wrote: > > > The second part of the ruling is an invalid attack on the property > > and contract rights of the owner of the property. > >The rental agency has no(!!!) authority under law to enforce speeding >regulations. If they find that a leasee has violated a law by getting a >ticket or whatever then they certainly have the right to protect their >property by refusing or raising rates on future rentals, but to impose >'fines' is simply wrong, they do not represent the civil authority in >charge of the road. It would certainly be sufficient evidence to bring >charges of reckless driving or whatever, but the final determination of >'guilt' and the consequences thereof are up to the CIVIL authorities and >not the owner of the property. They were not enforcing the state's speeding regulations. They were increasing the price of the rental to compensate for their increased exposure to costs due to accidents. steve From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jul 4 07:36:32 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 09:36:32 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Factors for matching paper Message-ID: from a shredder, that is... - handling marks (e.g. marks where a paper feeder impresses or moisture stains from handling) - paper fiber pattern extension across cuts - paper color shading across cuts - cut marks made by the cutting tools themselves - syntactic analysis (of the results, weak) -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From hseaver at ameritech.net Wed Jul 4 07:49:28 2001 From: hseaver at ameritech.net (Harmon Seaver) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 09:49:28 -0500 Subject: Cloning, miscarriange, and the 1st References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010703103149.039a8df0@pop3.lvcm.com> Message-ID: <3B432CF4.C63F8597@ameritech.net> And not even really Judeo, just rednecked Christian. Ancient Judaism was polygamous, as anyone who can read the Old Testament knows. And it wasn't just the "shamanic drug rituals" of native americans that was banned -- *ALL* religious practices were banned for many decades. Many indigenous people were killed simply for engaging in religious dancing -- Sun Dance and Ghost Dance in particular, but all other spiritual worship was banned as well. Not only native americans, but many others are banned from practicing their religion -- Hindu and Rastafarian use of ganga, for example. Santeria, Vodun, and like african/earth based religions are regularly persecuted, likewise Wicca and Druidism. Don't even mention Satanism. None of the last few mentioned are allowed on military bases, for example, and Dubbya, asked about this during the campaign, said they weren't "real" religions. Police raid ceremonies in many localities. How anyone can actually believe that we have any semblance of "freedom of religion" in the US is mind boggling. Well, I guess the same can be said for any belief we have a constitutional government at all, or have had for a long, long time. Steve Schear wrote: > At 08:22 AM 7/3/2001 -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > > Amendment I > > > >Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or > >prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, > >or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to > >petition the Government for a redress of grievances. > > The problem with this argument is that despite the apparent religious > agnosticism of the 1st, the moral basis upon which the SC has interpreted > our laws is Judeo-Christian. Historically you've been protected from > government intrusion unless your religion offends too many powerful people > or presents political challenges. Consider the Mormons and shamanic drug > rituals of the native Americans. Didn't Mao say something about all > politics being, eventually, dispensed from the end of gun? -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS CyberShamanix Work 920-203-9633 hseaver at cybershamanix.com Home 920-233-5820 hseaver at ameritech.net From pcapelli at nsec.net Wed Jul 4 07:26:48 2001 From: pcapelli at nsec.net (Peter Capelli) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 10:26:48 -0400 Subject: Auto tracking at the airport Message-ID: <014901c10495$5c939aa0$01000100@diamondjoe> Of course, it's all to help you find you car if you can't remember where you parked it ... http://www.newsobserver.com/wednesday/news/triangle/Story/513349p-508917c.ht ml Pete Capelli pcapelli at nsec.net http://www.capelli.org PGP Key ID:0x829263B6 "Those who would give up essential liberty for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin, 1759 From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jul 4 08:38:49 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 10:38:49 -0500 Subject: The Register - Government, military scrambel for encryption technology Message-ID: <3B433889.1EA2E14B@ssz.com> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/55/20193.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jul 4 08:40:53 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 10:40:53 -0500 Subject: UFO Cult May Sue U.S. FDA Over Human Cloning Message-ID: <3B433905.1E5C2714@ssz.com> http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010704/ts/science_cloning_dc_1.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jul 4 09:01:12 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 11:01:12 -0500 Subject: Legal Journals on the Web Message-ID: <3B433DC8.F3E5DC66@ssz.com> http://www.usc.edu/dept/law-lib/legal/journals.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From wouter at yourcreativesolutions.nl Wed Jul 4 02:02:34 2001 From: wouter at yourcreativesolutions.nl (Wouter Slegers) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 11:02:34 +0200 Subject: A perfect example of what's wrong with modern legal thinking In-Reply-To: ; from ravage@ssz.com on Tue, Jul 03, 2001 at 04:18:24PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010704110234.B23178@tornado-openbsd.internal.yourcreative solutions.nl> On Tue, Jul 03, 2001 at 04:18:24PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > Milosevic claims that he won't enter a plea so the judge does it for him, > instead of entering 'no plea on grounds of jurisdiction'. Hmmm, in the news here in the Netherlands a Dutch law professor said that a guilty plea from Milosevic would obviate the "(dis)proving of guilt"-part of the trial and everything would therefor move to determining the measure of punishment. A plea of not guilty means the trial can start immediately. If no plea is entered, the trial will proceed after a month without a guilty plea. This is not the same as recording it as a non-guilty plea, it's just giving the defendant a month the time to decide whether he wants to skip the part about proving he did it. Seem logically sound to me. Obviously, this is not in the interests of Milosevic. With kind regards, Wouter Slegers From wouter at yourcreativesolutions.nl Wed Jul 4 02:02:34 2001 From: wouter at yourcreativesolutions.nl (Wouter Slegers) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 11:02:34 +0200 Subject: A perfect example of what's wrong with modern legal thinking In-Reply-To: ; from ravage@ssz.com on Tue, Jul 03, 2001 at 04:18:24PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010704110234.B23178@tornado-openbsd.internal.yourcreativesolutions.nl> On Tue, Jul 03, 2001 at 04:18:24PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > Milosevic claims that he won't enter a plea so the judge does it for him, > instead of entering 'no plea on grounds of jurisdiction'. Hmmm, in the news here in the Netherlands a Dutch law professor said that a guilty plea from Milosevic would obviate the "(dis)proving of guilt"-part of the trial and everything would therefor move to determining the measure of punishment. A plea of not guilty means the trial can start immediately. If no plea is entered, the trial will proceed after a month without a guilty plea. This is not the same as recording it as a non-guilty plea, it's just giving the defendant a month the time to decide whether he wants to skip the part about proving he did it. Seem logically sound to me. Obviously, this is not in the interests of Milosevic. With kind regards, Wouter Slegers From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jul 4 09:08:56 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 11:08:56 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Cloning, miscarriange, and the 1st In-Reply-To: <3B432CF4.C63F8597@ameritech.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Harmon Seaver wrote: > How anyone can actually believe that we have any semblance of "freedom of > religion" in the US is mind boggling. Well, I guess the same can be said for > any belief we have a constitutional government at all, or have had for a long, > long time. March 4, 1861. -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From gbnewby at ils.unc.edu Wed Jul 4 08:14:39 2001 From: gbnewby at ils.unc.edu (Greg Newby) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 11:14:39 -0400 Subject: HAL2001 reminder; schedule; invitation Message-ID: <20010704111439.B7166@ils.unc.edu> About a month ago I sent the HAL 2001 call for participation to cypherpunks. This is a reminder to people who might be thinking of submitting a presentation. We're still looking for more in-depth sessions on crypto topics. The current list of speakers & subevents is online at http://www.hal2001.org/hal/03Topics/06program/index.html The call for participation, and how to submit (as well as how to register to attend) is also there. There had been a cypherpunks gathering subevent that seems to have dropped off the list. I'll try to revive it, but if anyone knows who was thinking of organizing this, please drop me a note. Brief facts: August 12-14 on the campus of the U. of Twente, in the south-east of The Netherlands. -- Greg From wouter at yourcreativesolutions.nl Wed Jul 4 02:22:04 2001 From: wouter at yourcreativesolutions.nl (Wouter Slegers) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 11:22:04 +0200 Subject: Of Art, Earthquakes, Image Processing And Restoration In-Reply-To: ; from ravage@ssz.com on Tue, Jul 03, 2001 at 08:12:16AM -0500 References: <20010703095551.A6921@tornado-openbsd.internal.yourcreatives olutions.nl> Message-ID: <20010704112204.C23178@tornado-openbsd.internal.yourcreative solutions.nl> On Tue, Jul 03, 2001 at 08:12:16AM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Wouter Slegers wrote: > > I don't think this texture classification method is going to work on > > normal printed text, as it has no real distinguishing texture. For > Text is printed on paper. Obviously. But to use the texture classification method for 'deshredding', the paper must consist of multiple distinct textures or else you will not get any information out of the method besides the type of paper used. For deshredding, the likelyhood of two pieces of paper being previously attached is needed. So for this to be usable on paper, paper needs to have significantly varying texture. For rice-paper, parchment and watermarks I can see this work, but for normal paper?? Does anyone have experience in this or a cite? With kind regards, Wouter Slegers From wouter at yourcreativesolutions.nl Wed Jul 4 02:22:04 2001 From: wouter at yourcreativesolutions.nl (Wouter Slegers) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 11:22:04 +0200 Subject: Of Art, Earthquakes, Image Processing And Restoration In-Reply-To: ; from ravage@ssz.com on Tue, Jul 03, 2001 at 08:12:16AM -0500 References: <20010703095551.A6921@tornado-openbsd.internal.yourcreativesolutions.nl> Message-ID: <20010704112204.C23178@tornado-openbsd.internal.yourcreativesolutions.nl> On Tue, Jul 03, 2001 at 08:12:16AM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Wouter Slegers wrote: > > I don't think this texture classification method is going to work on > > normal printed text, as it has no real distinguishing texture. For > Text is printed on paper. Obviously. But to use the texture classification method for 'deshredding', the paper must consist of multiple distinct textures or else you will not get any information out of the method besides the type of paper used. For deshredding, the likelyhood of two pieces of paper being previously attached is needed. So for this to be usable on paper, paper needs to have significantly varying texture. For rice-paper, parchment and watermarks I can see this work, but for normal paper?? Does anyone have experience in this or a cite? With kind regards, Wouter Slegers From davidthompson at hushmail.com Wed Jul 4 12:26:53 2001 From: davidthompson at hushmail.com (davidthompson at hushmail.com) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 11:26:53 -0800 (PDT) Subject: New Hushmail version Message-ID: <200107041824.LAA11037@user8.hushmail.com> Sounds like some neat stuff going on at Hushmail. OpenPGP keys? Will this mean I can sign my messages and have non-hush users verify them? That would be great. Plus the ability to store the Hush applet locally would answer one of the big objections people have had. I wonder, are the keys stored locally too? That seems important. But what's this about cutting back from 5MB to 2MB? Geez, a MB costs less than a penny these days. Can they really have so many users that saving 2 cents a user will matter? DT ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 03:50:55 -0700 Subject: Important V2 Notice From: support at hushmail.com To: Dear HushMail user, HushMail Version 2.0 will launch in early July! Please read the following instructions carefully to ensure a smooth transition to the enhanced service. * Logging on to Version 2.0 * 1. Enter your username as usual. 2. A pop-up box will advise you that a new Thawte certificate is validating the authenticity of the version 2.0 HushMail applet. - To proceed you must click Yes 嚙 3. Enter your passphrase as usual. Your next step is to upgrade your Hush key pairs. This involves generating new OpenPGP keys by moving your mouse randomly within a key-generation application. At no point in this process are your email, attachments, or private keys vulnerable. After you have upgraded to OpenPGP key pairs, you will be automatically transferred to the HushMail Version 2.0 login page. 4. You now have the option to install certain HushMail application files locally. In HushMail Version 2.0, users have the option to install the Hush applet Java嚙 class files on their hard drive. The Java applet that HushMail utilizes allows email messages to be encrypted before being sent to the Internet The implications of a local install are: *Faster access This will save time as it means users no longer have to wait for the download every time they log in. *Authentic code Hush delivers its Java classes in a signed archive. Until now the class files were delivered each time the user logged in. With Version 2 the class files may be installed locally, thus requiring the user to check the validity of the files only once. 5. Enter your passphrase as usual. Now check out the great new look and features of HushMail Version 2.0! * Important notice * - HushMail 2.0 allows you to manage your mail more efficiently, as the amount of disk space you have used is now displayed. In version 2.0 the disk storage space allotted to each free HushMail account is reduced from 5MB to 2MB. We have made this decision in order to continue to provide and to improve this free service. This reduction in storage space will take place on July 20. We advise you to delete mail in excess of the new 2MB limit to ensure a smooth migration to the upgraded service. Alternatively, you may take this opportunity to obtain a HushMail Premium account at a celebratory launch price from only US$2.49 per month. Go to http://www.hushmail.com/upgrade/ for more details. - In preparation for the launch, HushMail users must ensure that the mail in their HushMail folders is within their allotted disk storage space. If they are over the 2MB (HushMail free accounts) or 32MB (HushMail Premium accounts) limit during the migration period, archived mail in excess of the storage limit may be lost permanently. - Throughout the migration period, which will last about three weeks from launch, we will be transferring your email to a new, faster, even more robust storage system. During this time, your old email messages may not be available. Don嚙緣 worry. They are safe and will be transferred back into your email account. Premium account users and extremely frequent users will be given preference during this process. At no point in this process is encrypted email ever unencrypted. - Users may occasionally encounter some downtime over this migration period. The disruption to service will be minimal and we apologize in advance. * Troubleshooting * There will be a help link and a number of FAQs posted to assist you in resolving any issues you should encounter during migration to Version 2.0. * New Product Announcement * HushIdentity 嚙 secure Web-based email system for your business - Encrypted email @ your domain Experience the security of HushMail with your own business or personal domain email address. - Cost-effective managed PKI solution for your small business Register 10 email accounts from only US$19.99 per month Find out more at, http://www.hushidentity.com/ Thank you for using HushMail as your secure mailing solution. We appreciate your continued support and hope you will be pleased with this enhanced service. 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Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 11472 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jul 4 10:19:20 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 12:19:20 -0500 Subject: The Register - Money tracking by micro chip Message-ID: <3B435018.670B3270@ssz.com> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/20198.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From schear at lvcm.com Wed Jul 4 12:36:41 2001 From: schear at lvcm.com (Steve Schear) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 12:36:41 -0700 Subject: ScienceNet - Do identical twins have identical fingerprints ? In-Reply-To: <3B4076BE.B1BBDB70@ssz.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010704123452.03ab9f30@pop3.lvcm.com> From declan at well.com Wed Jul 4 09:59:23 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 12:59:23 -0400 Subject: Another problem with 'automated enforcement' In-Reply-To: ; from ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com on Tue, Jul 03, 2001 at 05:43:56PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010704125923.C27788@cluebot.com> How do you call a radar gun or a 7-11 video camera or a fingerprint matching computer or an EZ-Pass that says someone was speeding? Answer: You don't. You call the technician who runs the device, or the person who developed the device, and try to establish that the facts are true. Defense can challenge, but don't be surprised if they're unsuccessful. -Declan On Tue, Jul 03, 2001 at 05:43:56PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > How do you call a video camera to the stand to give their deposition as > to the situation in which the photo was taken? > > > -- > ____________________________________________________________________ > > Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. > > Ludwig Wittgenstein > > The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate > Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com > www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 > -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- > -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jul 4 11:31:30 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 13:31:30 -0500 Subject: The Register - Canadian Tire loses fight to call itself 'crap' Message-ID: <3B436102.7FC45EF6@ssz.com> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/20197.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From petro at bounty.org Wed Jul 4 13:54:52 2001 From: petro at bounty.org (petro) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 13:54:52 -0700 Subject: Calling witnesses--[On a tangent] In-Reply-To: <000d01c10450$2057e310$778d7c3f@Annabell> References: <000d01c10450$2057e310$778d7c3f@Annabell> Message-ID: >On a more or less off topic tangent, Do you think as far as the intelligence >and competency of these language speaking and otherwise intelligent animals, >If it was proven that they were equally or more so then ourself(the human >race), could we admitt to that fact? Only if they invented money and digital watches. -- -- http://www.apa.org/journals/psp/psp7761121.html It is one of the essential features of such incompetence that the person so afflicted is incapable of knowing that he is incompetent. To have such knowledge would already be to remedy a good portion of the offense. From emc at artifact.psychedelic.net Wed Jul 4 13:55:05 2001 From: emc at artifact.psychedelic.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 13:55:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Textual "Child Porn" Conviction in Ohio Message-ID: <200107042055.f64Kt6D08434@artifact.psychedelic.net> Here's some more screwing around with the First Amendment from our friends in the great state of Ohio. Ohio, as you may recall, brought us the Supreme Court decision permitting state laws to call anything they like "child porn," including mere nudity and mere text. It also brought us the Mapplethorpe Trial, the "Salo" gay bookstore arrest, the Larry Flynt trial, and served as the birthplace of the National Coalition Against Pornography. Now Ohio is again at the forefront of blue-nosed preoccupation with private conduct in the home. In a case the prosecutor calls a "breakthrough" in the war against child pornography, a Columbus man pleaded guilty to a single charge of pandering child pornography and got a 10 year prison sentence. His only crime was writing words in a personal journal, which he never showed to anyone, and which was discovered during a routine search of his home. Had he gone to trial and lost, he would have faced a 16 year prison sentence. The law in question makes it illegal to "create, reproduce, or publish any obscene material that has a minor as one of its participants or portrayed observers." Apparently, in Ohio, it's even illegal to write about a minor watching someone else have sex. I believe this to be the first successful US child porn prosecution for purely textual material created for private use. Civil Libertarians are, of course, unamused. I wonder how many of them have the balls to say so publicly, and risk getting labeled as supporting the sexual abuse of children. My guess is that the ACLU will keep silent on this one, and stick with defending the right of Jewish children not to be frightened by Santa. http://www.dispatch.com/news/news01/july01/755632.html ----- Brian Dalton wrote fictitious tales of sexually abusing and torturing children in his private journal, intending that no one else see them, he said. But when his probation officer found the journal during a routine search of Dalton's Columbus home, prosecutors charged him with pandering obscenity involving a minor. In Franklin County Common Pleas Court yesterday, the 22-year-old man's written words cost him 10 years in prison. The case worries civil-rights lawyer Benson Wolman, who said it has free-speech implications. "What you're saying is somebody can't, in essence, confess their fantasy into a personal journal for fear they have socially unacceptable fantasies, then ultimately they end up getting prosecuted,'' said Wolman, former director of the American Civil Liberties Union in Ohio. "This is the only case that I know of where we are talking about a journal -- just written words. It surprises and offends me that an action should be brought based on a journal.'' But Franklin County Prosecutor Ron O'Brien called the case a "breakthrough'' in the battle against child pornography. The journal came to light earlier this year when a probation officer discovered it during the search. Dalton was on probation from a 1998 pandering conviction involving photographs of child pornography. The journal contains the names and ages -- 10 and 11 -- of three children who had been placed in a cage in a basement. It details how the children were sexually molested and tortured. At first, police were concerned the accounts were real, prosecutors said. However, Dalton told authorities they were fictitious, and there was no evidence to the contrary, Assistant Prosecutor Christian Domis said. The 14-page journal was presented to a grand jury. The contents were so disturbing that jurors asked a detective to stop reading after about two pages, Domis said. "It was seriously the most disturbing thing I ever read,'' Domis said. "There was a woman on the grand jury who was crying.'' Domis said most pandering cases in Franklin County involve photographs of child pornography. "This is one of the first felony cases in Franklin County that involves the written word -- a writing somebody created on their own,'' he said. "Even without passing it on to anyone else, he committed a felony.'' The Feb. 23 indictment alleges that Dalton "did create, reproduce or publish any obscene material that has a minor as one of its participants or portrayed observers.'' Wolman said he cannot recall an obscenity case involving "mere words that were not disseminated.'' "It is just this kind of thing, I think, that is a misapplication of what the law intends,'' he said. But because Dalton pleaded guilty to the pandering charge, he cannot appeal the conviction or 10- year sentence -- seven for the pandering charge and three for violating probation. In exchange for his guilty plea, prosecutors withdrew a second pandering charge. He would have faced 16 years if convicted of both. "The law hasn't really been challenged and he would have had the opportunity to do that,'' defense attorney Isabella Dixon said. "But the cost to him is a lot of time in jail to challenge it.'' At yesterday's sentencing, Dalton told Judge Nodine Miller: "I know what I wrote was disturbing. "Over the past few months, I looked back at it and realized it was not something I could do. I don't know how I imagined to write anything like that.'' -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From Eugene.Leitl at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Wed Jul 4 05:10:07 2001 From: Eugene.Leitl at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Eugene Leitl) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 14:10:07 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: [Pigdog] Freenet v. Bunkernet (Was: [EWAR] Top firms retreat intobunker toward off anarchists (fwd) Message-ID: -- Eugen* Leitl leitl ______________________________________________________________ ICBMTO : N48 10'07'' E011 33'53'' http://www.lrz.de/~ui22204 57F9CFD3: ED90 0433 EB74 E4A9 537F CFF5 86E7 629B 57F9 CFD3 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 15:12:33 -0700 (PDT) From: George J.P. Perry Reply-To: pigdog-l at bearfountain.com To: Character References Subject: [Pigdog] Freenet v. Bunkernet (Was: [EWAR] Top firms retreat into bunker toward off anarchists (fwd) Old news, yes, but I was thinking about models for durability... ... inocculation... v. quarantine... glasnost v. black ops... and I remembered this: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 20:08:22 -0700 From: MIKE SPITZER To: ewar at topica.com Subject: [EWAR] Top firms retreat into bunker to ward off anarchists "You have to understand. Future wars will be fought by capitalists and anti-capitalists as society polarises. When that happens, control of information will be as important as control of territory used to be in conventional conflicts. If you can stop your enemy from destroying your information, then you have a good chance of winning the war." http://news.independent.co.uk/digital/update/story.jsp?story=77374 13 June 2001 Top firms retreat into bunker to ward off anarchists By Steve Boggan 11 June 2001 Some of Britain's biggest companies are running their internet operations on systems installed in a 300ft-deep nuclear blast-proof bunker to protect customers from violent anti-capitalist campaigners. They are renting space in hermetically sealed rooms capable of withstanding a one Kiloton explosion, electro-magnetic "pulse bombs", electronic eavesdropping and chemical and biological warfare. Hundreds of companies have already installed systems in The Bunker - formerly known as RAF Ash, outside Sandwich in Kent - and dozens more are understood to be queuing up for space. They have been driven underground by the IRA bombings of Canary Wharf and Bishopsgate in London and, increasingly, by concerns over the operations of anarchists behind sophisticated protests such as the May Day anti-capitalist rallies. At stake is billions of pounds worth of business conducted over the internet. Companies are concerned that while electronic security - using increasingly sophisticated encryption codes - is gradually making customers feel more confident about conducting credit-card transactions over the internet, the physical side of e-business is still vulnerable. The fear is that servers, the small electronic boxes through which customer traffic and business transactions on the web are channelled, could be physically vulnerable to theft, damage or sabotage. For companies conducting business solely over the internet, the loss of a server could be catastrophic; while offline there can be no sales and no income, and customers will go elsewhere. Records, too, are vulnerable to attack, hacking or simple damage, resulting in shut-downs that could cost even traditional companies millions of pounds. Now organisations such as Scottish Widows, BTCellnet, Richer Sounds and the Bank Automated Clearance System - which deals with inter-bank transactions - have acted, putting their e-business and confidential dealings out of harm's way behind guards, barbed wire, dogs, electronic detection systems, millions of tons of earth, 4m of concrete, pressurised air locks and rows of steel doors up to 18in thick. "This isn't paranoia or fantasy, this is the future," said Dr Ian Angell, professor of information systems at the London School of Economics and author of The New Barbarian Manifesto. "There are sophisticated anti-capitalists out there who feel a great deal of resentment against the business world. These are the new Luddites and, given half a chance, they would smash the machine to pieces." Behind The Bunker is a company called AL Digital Communications, established by the brothers Adam and Ben Laurie and Dominic Hawken. Ben Laurie is already revered in the computing world as the man who co-wrote Apache-SSL, perhaps the best-known encryption technology available over the internet - a tool used by some anti-capitalists when arranging demonstrations. Three years ago, AL Digital heard that an RAF facility with state-of-the art electronics and communications systems was to be auctioned off. RAF Ash was one of four underground command and control centres at the heart of Britain's national air defence system. As part of a cost-cutting exercise, it was to be mothballed only seven years after undergoing a complete overhaul and upgrade. The AL Digital team made a sealed bid - still secret, according to the Ministry of Defence - and the 60,000sq ft bunker with 18 acres of land was theirs. "The facility was designed to withstand a nuclear attack without disrupting RAF computer systems," Dominic Hawken said. "Their computers were about radar, but there is little difference between that and hosting a website. Some people have argued that our defences are a little over the top, but they're here now ? what can we do, shave a little off the walls?" To enter, visitors must pass through security checks before being allowed through layer after layer of restricted access; of the 49 employees on site, only a handful are allowed into the bowels of the structure. Here, one finds doors that take two people to open and concrete grottoes called Faraday cages that act as electric buffers between the hostile outside and the environmentally pure, air-filtered inside. There are three back-up power systems big enough to fire up a small town - when busy, the National Grid buys energy from The Bunker's four turbines. There are dedicated telecommunications lines installed for the RAF but now available to customers at between 250 pounds a month for a single server on a shelf, to "several millions" of pounds a year for the kind of huge space being rented by a large - and unnamed - international computer company already inside The Bunker. There is also a fire station, vast underground fuel and water tanks and an array of cameras on corridors and servers - you can even have a camera pointed permanently at your little box to make sure no one tampers with it. Mr Hawken added: "Co-location is now the buzzword; if your records are destroyed, you want at least one back-up in another place so your business can keep operating. There are many reasons why companies are choosing the safety of a nuclear bunker, but I think the anti-capitalist threat is the most compelling. "That whole thing is about bringing down large companies and the weakest link is to get to where their information is stored and destroy it. Because of encryption, they can no longer interfere with data, so they may try to damage the hardware that physically contains or controls it. For companies operating over the internet, that means targeting their servers." None of The Bunker's customers contacted by The Independent would comment for security reasons. However, one, a large multinational computer corporation, said: "The Bunker provides us with a level of physical security and reliability unobtainable in the US. Experience taught us that digital security unaccompanied by physical security is worthless. The Bunker provides us with the highest levels of both." Other companies said they simply felt they could relax knowing their internet operations were physically safe from attack. Professor Angell said: "You have to understand. Future wars will be fought by capitalists and anti-capitalists as society polarises. When that happens, control of information will be as important as control of territory used to be in conventional conflicts. If you can stop your enemy from destroying your information, then you have a good chance of winning the war." ======================================================= Kadosh, Kadosh, Kadosh, YHVH, TZEVAOT FROM THE DESK OF: *Michael Spitzer* The Best Way To Destroy Enemies Is To Change Them To Friends ======================================================= Post to: ewar at topica.com. Unsubscribe to: ewar-unsubscribe at topica.com. List info: www.topica.com/lists/ewar From Eugene.Leitl at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Wed Jul 4 05:10:07 2001 From: Eugene.Leitl at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Eugene Leitl) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 14:10:07 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: [Pigdog] Freenet v. Bunkernet (Was: [EWAR] Top firms retreat intobunker toward off anarchists (fwd) Message-ID: -- Eugen* Leitl leitl ______________________________________________________________ ICBMTO : N48 10'07'' E011 33'53'' http://www.lrz.de/~ui22204 57F9CFD3: ED90 0433 EB74 E4A9 537F CFF5 86E7 629B 57F9 CFD3 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 15:12:33 -0700 (PDT) From: George J.P. Perry To: Character References Subject: [Pigdog] Freenet v. Bunkernet (Was: [EWAR] Top firms retreat into bunker toward off anarchists (fwd) Old news, yes, but I was thinking about models for durability... ... inocculation... v. quarantine... glasnost v. black ops... and I remembered this: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 20:08:22 -0700 From: MIKE SPITZER To: ewar at topica.com Subject: [EWAR] Top firms retreat into bunker to ward off anarchists "You have to understand. Future wars will be fought by capitalists and anti-capitalists as society polarises. When that happens, control of information will be as important as control of territory used to be in conventional conflicts. If you can stop your enemy from destroying your information, then you have a good chance of winning the war." http://news.independent.co.uk/digital/update/story.jsp?story=77374 13 June 2001 Top firms retreat into bunker to ward off anarchists By Steve Boggan 11 June 2001 Some of Britain's biggest companies are running their internet operations on systems installed in a 300ft-deep nuclear blast-proof bunker to protect customers from violent anti-capitalist campaigners. They are renting space in hermetically sealed rooms capable of withstanding a one Kiloton explosion, electro-magnetic "pulse bombs", electronic eavesdropping and chemical and biological warfare. Hundreds of companies have already installed systems in The Bunker - formerly known as RAF Ash, outside Sandwich in Kent - and dozens more are understood to be queuing up for space. They have been driven underground by the IRA bombings of Canary Wharf and Bishopsgate in London and, increasingly, by concerns over the operations of anarchists behind sophisticated protests such as the May Day anti-capitalist rallies. At stake is billions of pounds worth of business conducted over the internet. Companies are concerned that while electronic security - using increasingly sophisticated encryption codes - is gradually making customers feel more confident about conducting credit-card transactions over the internet, the physical side of e-business is still vulnerable. The fear is that servers, the small electronic boxes through which customer traffic and business transactions on the web are channelled, could be physically vulnerable to theft, damage or sabotage. For companies conducting business solely over the internet, the loss of a server could be catastrophic; while offline there can be no sales and no income, and customers will go elsewhere. Records, too, are vulnerable to attack, hacking or simple damage, resulting in shut-downs that could cost even traditional companies millions of pounds. Now organisations such as Scottish Widows, BTCellnet, Richer Sounds and the Bank Automated Clearance System - which deals with inter-bank transactions - have acted, putting their e-business and confidential dealings out of harm's way behind guards, barbed wire, dogs, electronic detection systems, millions of tons of earth, 4m of concrete, pressurised air locks and rows of steel doors up to 18in thick. "This isn't paranoia or fantasy, this is the future," said Dr Ian Angell, professor of information systems at the London School of Economics and author of The New Barbarian Manifesto. "There are sophisticated anti-capitalists out there who feel a great deal of resentment against the business world. These are the new Luddites and, given half a chance, they would smash the machine to pieces." Behind The Bunker is a company called AL Digital Communications, established by the brothers Adam and Ben Laurie and Dominic Hawken. Ben Laurie is already revered in the computing world as the man who co-wrote Apache-SSL, perhaps the best-known encryption technology available over the internet - a tool used by some anti-capitalists when arranging demonstrations. Three years ago, AL Digital heard that an RAF facility with state-of-the art electronics and communications systems was to be auctioned off. RAF Ash was one of four underground command and control centres at the heart of Britain's national air defence system. As part of a cost-cutting exercise, it was to be mothballed only seven years after undergoing a complete overhaul and upgrade. The AL Digital team made a sealed bid - still secret, according to the Ministry of Defence - and the 60,000sq ft bunker with 18 acres of land was theirs. "The facility was designed to withstand a nuclear attack without disrupting RAF computer systems," Dominic Hawken said. "Their computers were about radar, but there is little difference between that and hosting a website. Some people have argued that our defences are a little over the top, but they're here now ? what can we do, shave a little off the walls?" To enter, visitors must pass through security checks before being allowed through layer after layer of restricted access; of the 49 employees on site, only a handful are allowed into the bowels of the structure. Here, one finds doors that take two people to open and concrete grottoes called Faraday cages that act as electric buffers between the hostile outside and the environmentally pure, air-filtered inside. There are three back-up power systems big enough to fire up a small town - when busy, the National Grid buys energy from The Bunker's four turbines. There are dedicated telecommunications lines installed for the RAF but now available to customers at between 250 pounds a month for a single server on a shelf, to "several millions" of pounds a year for the kind of huge space being rented by a large - and unnamed - international computer company already inside The Bunker. There is also a fire station, vast underground fuel and water tanks and an array of cameras on corridors and servers - you can even have a camera pointed permanently at your little box to make sure no one tampers with it. Mr Hawken added: "Co-location is now the buzzword; if your records are destroyed, you want at least one back-up in another place so your business can keep operating. There are many reasons why companies are choosing the safety of a nuclear bunker, but I think the anti-capitalist threat is the most compelling. "That whole thing is about bringing down large companies and the weakest link is to get to where their information is stored and destroy it. Because of encryption, they can no longer interfere with data, so they may try to damage the hardware that physically contains or controls it. For companies operating over the internet, that means targeting their servers." None of The Bunker's customers contacted by The Independent would comment for security reasons. However, one, a large multinational computer corporation, said: "The Bunker provides us with a level of physical security and reliability unobtainable in the US. Experience taught us that digital security unaccompanied by physical security is worthless. The Bunker provides us with the highest levels of both." Other companies said they simply felt they could relax knowing their internet operations were physically safe from attack. Professor Angell said: "You have to understand. Future wars will be fought by capitalists and anti-capitalists as society polarises. When that happens, control of information will be as important as control of territory used to be in conventional conflicts. If you can stop your enemy from destroying your information, then you have a good chance of winning the war." ======================================================= Kadosh, Kadosh, Kadosh, YHVH, TZEVAOT FROM THE DESK OF: *Michael Spitzer* The Best Way To Destroy Enemies Is To Change Them To Friends ======================================================= Post to: ewar at topica.com. Unsubscribe to: ewar-unsubscribe at topica.com. List info: www.topica.com/lists/ewar From sandfort at mindspring.com Wed Jul 4 14:39:44 2001 From: sandfort at mindspring.com (Sandy Sandfort) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 14:39:44 -0700 Subject: Textual "Child Porn" Conviction in Ohio In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Inchoate wrote: > 'routine search'? Remind me never > to go to Ohio. It's every state of the Union. Parolees are still prisoners. Just as you can search a prisoner's cell, a parole officer can search a parolee's house. S a n d y From Eugene.Leitl at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Wed Jul 4 05:45:57 2001 From: Eugene.Leitl at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Eugene Leitl) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 14:45:57 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: Complacency (fwd) Message-ID: -- Eugen* Leitl leitl ______________________________________________________________ ICBMTO : N48 10'07'' E011 33'53'' http://www.lrz.de/~ui22204 57F9CFD3: ED90 0433 EB74 E4A9 537F CFF5 86E7 629B 57F9 CFD3 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 17:14:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Tom To: Jeff Bone Cc: fork at xent.com Subject: Re: Complacency Big Brother by Popular Mandate? Seems many of our fellow citizens are all in favor of the BB knowing our faces , working day actions[1] and yet at the same time are willing to redo the rights of free speech in order to keep some things private[2]. Ball of confusion, that's what the world is today, hey hey. And the beat goes on across the globe[3] as some country's are forcing their ISPs to all access to any government searches while others rule against the use of certain devices in obtaining information. [1]http://www.shrm.org/surveys/privacy.htm [2]http://www.cnn.com/2001/LAW/04/06/privacy.poll/?s=10 [3]http://www.privacyinternational.org/ As seen on http://pleasant.blogspot.com/ http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork From Eugene.Leitl at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Wed Jul 4 05:45:57 2001 From: Eugene.Leitl at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Eugene Leitl) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 14:45:57 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: Complacency (fwd) Message-ID: -- Eugen* Leitl leitl ______________________________________________________________ ICBMTO : N48 10'07'' E011 33'53'' http://www.lrz.de/~ui22204 57F9CFD3: ED90 0433 EB74 E4A9 537F CFF5 86E7 629B 57F9 CFD3 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 17:14:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Tom To: Jeff Bone Cc: fork at xent.com Subject: Re: Complacency Big Brother by Popular Mandate? Seems many of our fellow citizens are all in favor of the BB knowing our faces , working day actions[1] and yet at the same time are willing to redo the rights of free speech in order to keep some things private[2]. Ball of confusion, that's what the world is today, hey hey. And the beat goes on across the globe[3] as some country's are forcing their ISPs to all access to any government searches while others rule against the use of certain devices in obtaining information. [1]http://www.shrm.org/surveys/privacy.htm [2]http://www.cnn.com/2001/LAW/04/06/privacy.poll/?s=10 [3]http://www.privacyinternational.org/ As seen on http://pleasant.blogspot.com/ http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork From tcmay at got.net Wed Jul 4 14:50:21 2001 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 14:50:21 -0700 Subject: Thoughtcrime (Re: Textual "Child Porn" Conviction in Ohio) In-Reply-To: <200107042055.f64Kt6D08434@artifact.psychedelic.net> References: <200107042055.f64Kt6D08434@artifact.psychedelic.net> Message-ID: At 1:55 PM -0700 7/4/01, Eric Cordian wrote: >Here's some more screwing around with the First Amendment from our friends >in the great state of Ohio. > >Ohio, as you may recall, brought us the Supreme Court decision permitting >state laws to call anything they like "child porn," including mere nudity >and mere text. It also brought us the Mapplethorpe Trial, the "Salo" gay >bookstore arrest, the Larry Flynt trial, and served as the birthplace of >the National Coalition Against Pornography. > >Now Ohio is again at the forefront of blue-nosed preoccupation with >private conduct in the home. > >In a case the prosecutor calls a "breakthrough" in the war against child >pornography, a Columbus man pleaded guilty to a single charge of pandering >child pornography and got a 10 year prison sentence. His only crime was >writing words in a personal journal, which he never showed to anyone, and >which was discovered during a routine search of his home. "During a routine search of his home." This is becoming more and more common. King George is no doubt laughing at how the foolish colonists have created a system worse than anything ever imagined during colonial days. >I believe this to be the first successful US child porn prosecution for >purely textual material created for private use. > >Civil Libertarians are, of course, unamused. I wonder how many of them >have the balls to say so publicly, and risk getting labeled as supporting >the sexual abuse of children. I say so. What a person _writes_ cannot be a crime, no matter how repugnant the thoughts may be to others. That we are sending people off to prison for 10 years for fantasies written in their journals shows what kind of society we now live in. That there is not an uproar over searching a man's journals "during a routine search of his home" shows the situation is probably hopeless. >My guess is that the ACLU will keep silent on this one, and stick with >defending the right of Jewish children not to be frightened by Santa. > Lot of Jews in the ACLU, and Jews are well-known to be censorious and hateful of liberty (Feinstein, Lieberman, Schumer, the whole qabal). >"What you're saying is somebody can't, in essence, confess their fantasy >into a personal journal for fear they have socially unacceptable >fantasies, then ultimately they end up getting prosecuted,'' said Wolman, >former director of the American Civil Liberties Union in Ohio. Already the case with shrinks, at least in many state. Confess a fantasy, even an absurd and non-credible fantasy, and "Tarasoff" requires the shrink to narc out his or her patient. Here in California, psychiatrists, counsellors, and family therapists are Agents of the State. >"This is one of the first felony cases in Franklin County that involves >the written word -- a writing somebody created on their own,'' he said. > >"Even without passing it on to anyone else, he committed a felony.'' Thoughtcrime. > >At yesterday's sentencing, Dalton told Judge Nodine Miller: "I know what I >wrote was disturbing. > >"Over the past few months, I looked back at it and realized it was not >something I could do. I don't know how I imagined to write anything like >that.'' "He came to realize that he _loved_ Big Brother." --Winston Smith From declan at well.com Wed Jul 4 11:53:55 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 14:53:55 -0400 Subject: FC: FBI is investigating an alleged "Black Bloc" threat sent to Politech Message-ID: The FBI is investigating an alleged threat against the Cato Institute, the world's leading free-market think tank, sent to Politech. Chuck0 sent a message to Politech that I forwarded -- as part of an ongoing discussion about privacy and globalization -- on Monday: http://www.politechbot.com/p-02214.html The message said: "Cato's little insult of the black bloc means that we'll be paying Cato HQ a visit this coming September. People who work in glass buildings shouldn't throw the first rhetorical stones." The Cato Institute was reportedly vandalized in January during the Bush inauguration protests. (http://www.mccullagh.org/theme/2001-bush-inauguration-highlights.html) It is a prominent building with a huge glass atrium at 10th and Mass. Ave. in downtown Washington. The insult directed at the Black Bloc appeared in an article written by Aaron Lukas, an analyst at the Cato Institute's Center for Trade Policy Studies. It was published in the National Review and I reposted it to Politech with Aaron's permission. Aaron wrote that "vandalism, violence, and harassment are acceptable behavior for the Black Blockheads and Ruckus-Societarians of the world." (http://www.politechbot.com/p-02210.html) The Black Bloc is difficult to define, but it has been described as a revolutionary anti-capitalist action group, and also as a collective of black-masked anarchists who are the "special forces" of the movement. A Washington, DC "Anarchist Neighborhood" site (http://www.infoshop.org/hood/dc.html) that lists Chuck0 as a contact says World Bank/IMF protests are scheduled for the city in September. FBI Agent Dave Dawson in the agency's headquarters is investigating Chuck0's message sent to Politech. Politech is a journalistic enterprise protected by the First Amendment, and I generally treat email sent to me in confidence, as a news organization would treat a confidential source. When someone sends me mail and indicates they would like it redistributed to the list -- typically done by emailing both declan at well.com and the politech at politechbot.com list address, as Chuck0 did -- the relationship is akin to someone writing a letter to the editor of a newspaper and asking that it be published. While I do not countenance attacks on property, responsible journalists don't like to chat with law enforcement about people who talk to them or send letters to the editor. It makes their readers less likely to trust their independence in the future. I have not yet spoken with Agent Dawson. If we speak, my response will be: 1. I will not reveal information about Politech subscribers. Politech's privacy policy (http://www.politechbot.com/info/privacy.html) says: "We do not sell or rent information you provide us. We intend to challenge any subpoena or other legal process seeking access to the limited information we do store." 2. I will not reveal any other information I may or may not possess (such as complete headers of email messages or other correspondence that may or may not exist between me and Chuck0 or anyone else on this topic). 3. I will describe in general terms, such as I would at a speaking engagement, in an article or in conversation with a colleague, what Politech is and how long I have been editing it. -Declan Editor, Politech This message will be archived at: http://www.politechbot.com/p-02218.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. To subscribe, visit http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- End forwarded message ----- From declan at well.com Wed Jul 4 12:01:39 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 15:01:39 -0400 Subject: FBI is investigating an alleged "Black Bloc" threat sent to Politech Message-ID: <20010704150139.B29970@cluebot.com> ----- Forwarded message from Declan McCullagh ----- From support at hotwire.com Wed Jul 4 15:05:43 2001 From: support at hotwire.com (support at hotwire.com) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 15:05:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Registration Confirmation Message-ID: <3301920.994284289516.JavaMail.weblogic@mx01.hotwire.com> Dear joe cypherpunk, Welcome and thank you for registering with Hotwire! Please note that you will need your user name and password to log in the next time you visit us. Remember, passwords are case-sensitive. You must enter your password exactly the same way, including capitalization, each time you log in. Now that you're registered, you can search Hotwire for the best prices on airline tickets (domestic and international), hotel reservations and rental cars. Tell us where and when you want to travel and we'll do the rest, offering you great deals in just minutes. With your Hotwire account, you can easily update your contact and credit card information; change your preferences; add favorite flight, room and car rental searches; or view your Hotwire purchases. Rest assured that your privacy is protected and all transactions involving personal information are done through a secure server. If you have any questions, please see the Customer Service section of our site. You may also contact us by sending an email to support at hotwire.com, or a fax to 1-701-280-5524. Our customer service associates are available 24 hours a day, seven days a week, at 1-888-362-1234. Thanks again for registering with Hotwire. http://www.hotwire.com P.S. Help us spread the word about Hotwire! The more customers we have, the better travel deals we can negotiate for you. From tcmay at got.net Wed Jul 4 15:09:18 2001 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 15:09:18 -0700 Subject: Most of a nation on probation? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 2:39 PM -0700 7/4/01, Sandy Sandfort wrote: >Inchoate wrote: > >> 'routine search'? Remind me never >> to go to Ohio. > >It's every state of the Union. Parolees are still prisoners. Just as you >can search a prisoner's cell, a parole officer can search a parolee's house. The entire parole process is itself an open sore on our justice system. It's turned into a control system, a "force magnfication" scheme. Instead of actually having to _jail_ all of the people, they release them early, take away their key Bill of Rights protections (2nd, 4th, etc., including the vote) and have them as virtual slaves of the system. From an economic/libertarian point of view, what this has done is to alter the costs of making things criminal. Standard economic theory: making more people criminals doesn't cost much, and makes them more malleable. As so many people have said so pithily, "At the rate they're going, we'll _all_ be felons." And felons don't need no steenking constitutional rights. Were Orwell writing today, he'd probably replace his "proles" with "parolees." And the cameras in each room would merely be part of the parole process. One of the biggest concerns Keith Henson had in his probable 6-month sentence in his case (which is another issue) is that he was likely to receive a 5-year probation term, during which his house could (and likely would) be entered at any time, day or night, and during which period his private files and records would be scrutinized for any thoughtcrimes which could be used to send him back for a longer period. (Which happened with both Bell and Parker.) As a felon myself, and one who committed a dozen or so felonies each carrying 3-year terms just last week, I realize how the entire probation/parole process is what Big Brother really likes the most about our so-called justice system. --Tim May -- Timothy C. May tcmay at got.net Corralitos, California Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns From sandfort at mindspring.com Wed Jul 4 15:34:45 2001 From: sandfort at mindspring.com (Sandy Sandfort) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 15:34:45 -0700 Subject: Most of a nation on probation? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tim May wrote: > The entire parole process is itself > an open sore on our justice system. Yes and no. I know I'd rather be on parole than in the slammer. (Of course, given the choice I'd go for "none of the above.") I have an acquaintance who just got out after being in for seven years. Even though she is required to live in a half-way house, cannot go anywhere but work nor may visit anyone without express permission of her parole officer, she's very happy to at least be out in the world and not locked up. The problem is not that parole exists--be thankful that it does. The problem is the criminalization of every area of life. S a n d y From tcmay at got.net Wed Jul 4 15:43:33 2001 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 15:43:33 -0700 Subject: Most of a nation on probation? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 3:34 PM -0700 7/4/01, Sandy Sandfort wrote: >Tim May wrote: > >> The entire parole process is itself >> an open sore on our justice system. > >Yes and no. I know I'd rather be on parole than in the slammer. (Of >course, given the choice I'd go for "none of the above.") I have an >acquaintance who just got out after being in for seven years. Even though >she is required to live in a half-way house, cannot go anywhere but work nor >may visit anyone without express permission of her parole officer, she's >very happy to at least be out in the world and not locked up. > >The problem is not that parole exists--be thankful that it does. The >problem is the criminalization of every area of life. It's the very fact that so much probation exists that makes it economically feasible for so many behaviors to now be felonious. If residents of a local community had to actually _pay_ for the building of enough prisons to house the thoughtcriminals, there would be far fewer things classified as felonies. The parole machine _is_ what makes the criminalization of every area of life so attractive to the "it can't happen to me!" crowd. --Tim May -- Timothy C. May tcmay at got.net Corralitos, California Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns From rick65 at kukamail.com Wed Jul 4 16:03:47 2001 From: rick65 at kukamail.com (rick65 at kukamail.com) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 16:03:47 Subject: toner cartridges Message-ID: <871.223386.117251@kukamail.com> PLEASE FORWARD TO THE PERSON RESPONSIBLE FOR PURCHASING YOUR LASER PRINTER SUPPLIES **** VORTEX SUPPLIES **** LASER PRINTER TONER CARTRIDGES, COPIER AND FAX CARTRIDGES SAVE UP TO 30% FROM RETAIL ORDER BY PHONE:1-888-288-9043 ORDER BY FAX: 1-888-977-1577 CUSTOMER SERVICE: 1-888-248-2015 E-MAIL REMOVAL LINE: 1-888-248-4930 UNIVERSITY AND/OR SCHOOL PURCHASE ORDERS WELCOME. (NO CREDIT APPROVAL REQUIRED) ALL OTHER PURCHASE ORDER REQUESTS REQUIRE CREDIT APPROVAL. PAY BY CHECK (C.O.D), CREDIT CARD OR PURCHASE ORDER (NET 30 DAYS). 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ALL TRADEMARKS AND BRAND NAMES LISTED ABOVE ARE PROPERTY OF THE RESPECTIVE HOLDERS AND USED FOR DESCRIPTIVE PURPOSES ONLY. From sandfort at mindspring.com Wed Jul 4 16:09:24 2001 From: sandfort at mindspring.com (Sandy Sandfort) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 16:09:24 -0700 Subject: Most of a nation on probation? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sampo Syreeni > But just as Tim argues, the latter > always involves cost-effectiveness > too...There should always be a > sufficient, predictable cost > associated with putting people > away to guard against > criminalization for convenience, > prudence and political gain only. I'm sure that "cost-effectiveness" has a role to play here. I just don't agree that the cost savings of parole are all that big a factor. The US has more prisoners per capital than just about anyone (I think the US is surpassed by Russia and maybe South Africa). So we've already made the decision that we can afford to lock up a lot of people. Also, the assumption that locking up more people comes at some sort of linear increase in costs. One of the simplest answers is to just overcrowd the facilities "we" already have. No, I think Tim and Sampo have the cart before the horse. We have the criminal laws we have because that feeds the government, not because we save so much with parole. Eliminating parole by overcrowding or by building still more prisons would increase, not decrease human suffering. Honestly, would you rather wear a ankle transponder or be Bruno's bitch? S a n d y From Eugene.Leitl at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Wed Jul 4 07:24:11 2001 From: Eugene.Leitl at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Eugene Leitl) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 16:24:11 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: Black Hat Briefings 2001 Conference Speakers Release (fwd) Message-ID: (I guess I've been bitten by Choate. I hope the antidote is working). -- Eugen* Leitl leitl ______________________________________________________________ ICBMTO : N48 10'07'' E011 33'53'' http://www.lrz.de/~ui22204 57F9CFD3: ED90 0433 EB74 E4A9 537F CFF5 86E7 629B 57F9 CFD3 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 00:22:26 -0400 From: B.K. DeLong To: press at blackhat.com Subject: Black Hat Briefings 2001 Conference Speakers Release For Immediate Release Contacts B.K. DeLong press at blackhat.com +1.617.877.3271 BLACK HAT BRIEFINGS 2001 SESSIONS HIGHLIGHT NEW COMPUTER SECURITY TOOLS, TECHNOLOGIES AND TACTICS Top Industry Gurus will Talk About Key Problem and Offer Solutions to Todays Security Issues http://www.blackhat.com/ -- Black Hat Inc. announced today over 40 different speaker sessions for this summer's Black Hat Briefings and Training 2001, the annual conference and workshop designed to help computer professionals better understand the security risks to their computer and information infrastructures by potential threats. This year's show will focus on hot topics including Honey Pot servers, secure programming techniques, incident response, Web-based vulnerabilities and Distributed Denial of Service attacks at the Caesars Palace Hotel and Casino in the heart of Las Vegas, 11 through 12 July, 2001. Top-notch speakers will deliver to the conference's core audience of IT & network security experts, consultants and administrators the newest developments on the vital security issues facing organizations using large networks with a mix of operating systems. "Our goal is to present a vendor-neutral environment where conference attendees can receive key intelligence in a face-to-face environment with the people developing the tools used by and against hackers," says Jeff Moss, founder of Black Hat Inc. "Our speakers discuss the strategies involved in correcting existing problems and inform attendees on upcoming issues, preparing them for the future." The lineup of Black Hat Briefings presenters for 2001 include: -- James Bamford, author of NSA books "The Puzzle Palace" & "Body of Secrets", will discuss some of his key research tactics that lead to his exposes about the most secret government agency in the United States. -- Richard Clarke is the senior U.S. government official responsible for cyber security policy. He was appointed by the President as the first national coordinator for security, infrastructure protection and counter-terrorism. He chairs the U.S. government's committees on cyber security, continuity of operations, counter-terrorism, domestic preparedness and international crime. -- Steve Christey, Lead INFOSEC Engineer in the Security and Information Operations Division at The MITRE Corporation will discuss the Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures (CVE) concept (naming standard for computer security vulnerabilities that hackers exploit to break into systems) and the challenges that MITRE faced trying to meet the criteria created for the concept. -- Martin Roesch, founder of Sourcefire Inc and author of the open source "Snort" Network Intrusion Detection System will talk about the new features in version 1.8 of the system (including features to improve it's enterprise scalability, resistance to anti-NIDS attacks, and integration with other security products and protocols) as well as the architecture and evolution of the next-generation Snort 2.0 system, is currently in the planning stages. -- Lance Spitzner, founder of the Honey Net Project and the group's 25 members will present the resulting research from their endeavors and discuss the goals of the project, how they accomplished their research and what they have discovered. -- Jose Nazario, a Biochemistry Ph.D. student from Cleveland, Ohio will discuss the future of Internet worm viruses and how the current crop (Ramen, Melissa, ILoveYou) are just the tip of the iceberg. Nazario applies the morphing approaches of biological systems with computing, and shows how new threats and adaptive defense strategies emerge. -- Dr. Ian Goldberg from Zero Knowledge Systems (known for cracking the first RSA Secret Key Challenge in three and a half hours, breaking Netscape's implementation of SSL encryption, and breaking the cryptography in the GSM cellular phone standard) will be discussing the "highly flawed" Wired Equivalent Privacy in the 802.11 wireless network standard. -- Brian Martin, founder and staff member of Attrition.org will cover the lessons learned and insight gained from monitoring the world of Web site defacements including reactions from the defacers themselves, system administrators, law enforcement and journalists as well as identification and analysis of several trends and statistics. Cryptography expert Bruce Schneier and Technology Futurist Richard Thieme will be giving this year's lunchtime presentations. Black Hat Inc. will also conduct computer security training for several different topics the two days prior to the briefings - 9 through 10 July. Subjects include: -- NT Network Intrusion Workshop -- Complete Windows 2000 Security -- Advanced Scanning with ICMP -- Reverse Engineering and Security Auditing with IDA The instructors for the training segment of this year's Black Hat are some of the top experts in their field and are fully active in the computer security community. You won't find most of these speakers anywhere else and these handpicked security gurus will train participants in understanding the real threats to any network and how to keep them from being exploited. To register for BlackHat Briefings, visit the Web site at http://www.blackhat.com. Direct any conference-related questions to info at blackhat.com. For press registration, contact B.K. DeLong at +1.617.877.3271 or via email at press at blackhat.com. About Black Hat Inc. Black Hat Inc. was originally founded in 1997 by Jeff Moss to fill the need for computer security professionals to better understand the security risks and potential threats to their information infrastructures and computer systems. Black Hat accomplishes this by assembling a group of vendor-neutral security professionals and having them speak candidly about the problems businesses face and their solutions to those problems. Black Hat Inc. produces 5 briefing & training events a year on 3 different continents. Speakers and attendees travel from all over the world to meet and share in the latest advances in computer security. For more information, visit their Web site at http://www.blackhat.com ### -- B.K. DeLong Press Coordinator Black Hat Briefings +1.617.877.3271 bkdelong at blackhat.com http://www.blackhat.com http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork From Eugene.Leitl at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Wed Jul 4 07:24:11 2001 From: Eugene.Leitl at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Eugene Leitl) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 16:24:11 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: Black Hat Briefings 2001 Conference Speakers Release (fwd) Message-ID: (I guess I've been bitten by Choate. I hope the antidote is working). -- Eugen* Leitl leitl ______________________________________________________________ ICBMTO : N48 10'07'' E011 33'53'' http://www.lrz.de/~ui22204 57F9CFD3: ED90 0433 EB74 E4A9 537F CFF5 86E7 629B 57F9 CFD3 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 00:22:26 -0400 From: B.K. DeLong To: press at blackhat.com Subject: Black Hat Briefings 2001 Conference Speakers Release For Immediate Release Contacts B.K. DeLong press at blackhat.com +1.617.877.3271 BLACK HAT BRIEFINGS 2001 SESSIONS HIGHLIGHT NEW COMPUTER SECURITY TOOLS, TECHNOLOGIES AND TACTICS Top Industry Gurus will Talk About Key Problem and Offer Solutions to Todays Security Issues http://www.blackhat.com/ -- Black Hat Inc. announced today over 40 different speaker sessions for this summer's Black Hat Briefings and Training 2001, the annual conference and workshop designed to help computer professionals better understand the security risks to their computer and information infrastructures by potential threats. This year's show will focus on hot topics including Honey Pot servers, secure programming techniques, incident response, Web-based vulnerabilities and Distributed Denial of Service attacks at the Caesars Palace Hotel and Casino in the heart of Las Vegas, 11 through 12 July, 2001. Top-notch speakers will deliver to the conference's core audience of IT & network security experts, consultants and administrators the newest developments on the vital security issues facing organizations using large networks with a mix of operating systems. "Our goal is to present a vendor-neutral environment where conference attendees can receive key intelligence in a face-to-face environment with the people developing the tools used by and against hackers," says Jeff Moss, founder of Black Hat Inc. "Our speakers discuss the strategies involved in correcting existing problems and inform attendees on upcoming issues, preparing them for the future." The lineup of Black Hat Briefings presenters for 2001 include: -- James Bamford, author of NSA books "The Puzzle Palace" & "Body of Secrets", will discuss some of his key research tactics that lead to his exposes about the most secret government agency in the United States. -- Richard Clarke is the senior U.S. government official responsible for cyber security policy. He was appointed by the President as the first national coordinator for security, infrastructure protection and counter-terrorism. He chairs the U.S. government's committees on cyber security, continuity of operations, counter-terrorism, domestic preparedness and international crime. -- Steve Christey, Lead INFOSEC Engineer in the Security and Information Operations Division at The MITRE Corporation will discuss the Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures (CVE) concept (naming standard for computer security vulnerabilities that hackers exploit to break into systems) and the challenges that MITRE faced trying to meet the criteria created for the concept. -- Martin Roesch, founder of Sourcefire Inc and author of the open source "Snort" Network Intrusion Detection System will talk about the new features in version 1.8 of the system (including features to improve it's enterprise scalability, resistance to anti-NIDS attacks, and integration with other security products and protocols) as well as the architecture and evolution of the next-generation Snort 2.0 system, is currently in the planning stages. -- Lance Spitzner, founder of the Honey Net Project and the group's 25 members will present the resulting research from their endeavors and discuss the goals of the project, how they accomplished their research and what they have discovered. -- Jose Nazario, a Biochemistry Ph.D. student from Cleveland, Ohio will discuss the future of Internet worm viruses and how the current crop (Ramen, Melissa, ILoveYou) are just the tip of the iceberg. Nazario applies the morphing approaches of biological systems with computing, and shows how new threats and adaptive defense strategies emerge. -- Dr. Ian Goldberg from Zero Knowledge Systems (known for cracking the first RSA Secret Key Challenge in three and a half hours, breaking Netscape's implementation of SSL encryption, and breaking the cryptography in the GSM cellular phone standard) will be discussing the "highly flawed" Wired Equivalent Privacy in the 802.11 wireless network standard. -- Brian Martin, founder and staff member of Attrition.org will cover the lessons learned and insight gained from monitoring the world of Web site defacements including reactions from the defacers themselves, system administrators, law enforcement and journalists as well as identification and analysis of several trends and statistics. Cryptography expert Bruce Schneier and Technology Futurist Richard Thieme will be giving this year's lunchtime presentations. Black Hat Inc. will also conduct computer security training for several different topics the two days prior to the briefings - 9 through 10 July. Subjects include: -- NT Network Intrusion Workshop -- Complete Windows 2000 Security -- Advanced Scanning with ICMP -- Reverse Engineering and Security Auditing with IDA The instructors for the training segment of this year's Black Hat are some of the top experts in their field and are fully active in the computer security community. You won't find most of these speakers anywhere else and these handpicked security gurus will train participants in understanding the real threats to any network and how to keep them from being exploited. To register for BlackHat Briefings, visit the Web site at http://www.blackhat.com. Direct any conference-related questions to info at blackhat.com. For press registration, contact B.K. DeLong at +1.617.877.3271 or via email at press at blackhat.com. About Black Hat Inc. Black Hat Inc. was originally founded in 1997 by Jeff Moss to fill the need for computer security professionals to better understand the security risks and potential threats to their information infrastructures and computer systems. Black Hat accomplishes this by assembling a group of vendor-neutral security professionals and having them speak candidly about the problems businesses face and their solutions to those problems. Black Hat Inc. produces 5 briefing & training events a year on 3 different continents. Speakers and attendees travel from all over the world to meet and share in the latest advances in computer security. For more information, visit their Web site at http://www.blackhat.com ### -- B.K. DeLong Press Coordinator Black Hat Briefings +1.617.877.3271 bkdelong at blackhat.com http://www.blackhat.com http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork From tcmay at got.net Wed Jul 4 16:25:22 2001 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 16:25:22 -0700 Subject: Most of a nation on probation? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 4:09 PM -0700 7/4/01, Sandy Sandfort wrote: >Sampo Syreeni > >> But just as Tim argues, the latter >> always involves cost-effectiveness >> too...There should always be a >> sufficient, predictable cost >> associated with putting people >> away to guard against >> criminalization for convenience, >> prudence and political gain only. > >I'm sure that "cost-effectiveness" has a role to play here. I just don't >agree that the cost savings of parole are all that big a factor. The US has >more prisoners per capital than just about anyone (I think the US is >surpassed by Russia and maybe South Africa). So we've already made the >decision that we can afford to lock up a lot of people. > >Also, the assumption that locking up more people comes at some sort of >linear increase in costs. One of the simplest answers is to just overcrowd >the facilities "we" already have. > >No, I think Tim and Sampo have the cart before the horse. We have the >criminal laws we have because that feeds the government, not because we save >so much with parole. Eliminating parole by overcrowding or by building >still more prisons would increase, not decrease human suffering. > >Honestly, would you rather wear a ankle transponder or be Bruno's bitch? This is that chestnut of a logical fallacy called "false alternatives." (Or "false dilemma.") The choice is not just between an ankle transponder and being Bruno's bitch. Sampo and I are both arguing that the costs of making things illegal is no longer as visible as it once was, especially as when local jurisdictions had to make a choice between building a school or a jail. These costs have been hidden from the voters and taxpayers in the usual ways: -- by bundling costs and shifting them great distances -- by hiding the costs in bond issues which fool people into thinking that new prison won't cost anything -- by not actually _needing_ the additional prison space. I'm not saying there is a simple cause-and-effect relationship between parole and criminalization, that parole caused more criminalization of activities. Things are more complicated and nuanced than that. But what I _am_ saying is that both trends have gone hand-in-hand, and the results are made _worse_ by having so many people on parole. And if things go on (another logical fallacy, I realize), we are heading towards a situation where a large chunk of the U.S. (and world, as other nations are copying our schemes) population is disenfranchised, can't own firearms, has no expectation of being secure in papers and possessions, and which may even be restricted in other ways in the future. The fact that your friend got out on parole after 7 years is nice, for her. (Jeez, even murderers rarely face more than a few years, and I know of an arsonist who is getting no prison time at all, just a very long period of "parole.") --Tim May -- Timothy C. May tcmay at got.net Corralitos, California Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jul 4 14:26:13 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 16:26:13 -0500 (CDT) Subject: OPT: Re: DCchat program (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 11:29:37 -0800 (PDT) From: davidthompson at hushmail.com To: coderpunks at toad.com Subject: Re: DCchat program The DCchat program I wrote about a couple of weeks ago is ready for test now. It is available at http://www.geocities.com/cryptosw. It is written in Python and requires threads and Tkinter support built in. I ended up leaving out the "nym" feature, all messages are anonymous. Mostly at this point I want to know if it works with moderate numbers of users (3-20). Can the DC net scale? When does it fall apart? Any questions please feel free to ask. Perhaps people could agree on a time to try a chat? If you want to try chatting, first run the program once ahead of time and it will create your host key in a file hostkey.pub. You can post that and users can check to see if it is present in the list. Eventually I hope to automate this checking to some degree, a la ssh. DT Free, encrypted, secure Web-based email at www.hushmail.com -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jul 4 14:32:01 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 16:32:01 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Textual "Child Porn" Conviction in Ohio In-Reply-To: <200107042055.f64Kt6D08434@artifact.psychedelic.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Eric Cordian wrote: > Here's some more screwing around with the First Amendment from our friends > in the great state of Ohio. > child pornography and got a 10 year prison sentence. His only crime was > writing words in a personal journal, which he never showed to anyone, and > which was discovered during a routine search of his home. Had he gone to 'routine search'? Remind me never to go to Ohio. -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From sandfort at mindspring.com Wed Jul 4 16:49:49 2001 From: sandfort at mindspring.com (Sandy Sandfort) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 16:49:49 -0700 Subject: Most of a nation on probation? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tim May wrote: > At 4:09 PM -0700 7/4/01, Sandy > Sandfort wrote: > >... > >Honestly, would you rather wear > >a ankle transponder or be Bruno's > > bitch? > > This is that chestnut of a logical > fallacy called "false alternatives." > (Or "false dilemma.") The choice is > not just between an ankle transponder > and being Bruno's bitch. Yes that IS the choice. This is not a logical fallacy. This is the real choice real people have to make every day. "Changing the system" is not an individual option. Right now, in the real world, prisoners have to decide whether they are going to be "hard cases" and staying in the joint or of "going along" and getting out sooner, albeit on parole. Eliminating parole should be the LAST thing done to reform the system. Anything else merely compounds the evil. I'll go a bit further. To the extent a libertarian society had prisons, I think there would--and should--be a system of parole (i.e., "conditional release") to help released inmates re-enter society. S a n d y From sandfort at mindspring.com Wed Jul 4 17:01:21 2001 From: sandfort at mindspring.com (Sandy Sandfort) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 17:01:21 -0700 Subject: Most of a nation on probation? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sampo Syreeni wrote: > Yep, the US does lock a whole lot of > people up. But what about the constant > whining about "overflowing prisons", > then. Unfortunately, "whining" is just that. Not much is done about it. > Or the many instants where prisoners > are put on parole en masse to cut > costs and/or to free up prison real > estate? That's really a separate problem having to do with our insane mandatory sentencing laws (primarily for drug-related offenses). When they do release folks, they are usually the ones convicted of really vicious crimes. > There would be ways to control this > too. One way is to make it possible > for inmates to sue for damage due > to overcrowding and the violence it > causes. This would make for a > superlinear increase in cost, and > eventual balancing in the density > of inmates. Well that would be nice, but why not focus in on the real problem, too many laws? Forget suing, leave parole alone, just get rid of the myriad of laws. > From the standpoint of individual > freedom, one might argue that more > people are now hurting. Than what, Utopia? That isn't the choice now. It's between getting out or staying in a hell-hole prison. Nobody is hurt by parole. Get rid of the laws and the parole issue goes away by itself. > ...the cost of putting people away > should be high enough to become > prohibitive for anything but the > most serious of crimes. Shoulda, woulda, coulda. It's not, so why fantasize? Nobody is hurt by parole, itself. Eliminate the bad laws, they are the real problem. S a n d y From emc at artifact.psychedelic.net Wed Jul 4 17:25:08 2001 From: emc at artifact.psychedelic.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 17:25:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Most of a nation on probation? In-Reply-To: from "Sandy Sandfort" at Jul 04, 2001 03:34:45 PM Message-ID: <200107050025.f650P8W08778@artifact.psychedelic.net> Sandy wrote: > Yes and no. I know I'd rather be on parole than in the slammer. (Of > course, given the choice I'd go for "none of the above.") I have an > acquaintance who just got out after being in for seven years. Even though > she is required to live in a half-way house, cannot go anywhere but work nor > may visit anyone without express permission of her parole officer, she's > very happy to at least be out in the world and not locked up. > The problem is not that parole exists--be thankful that it does. The > problem is the criminalization of every area of life. If everyone refused plea bargaining, and refused parole, the number of people who could be prosecuted and jailed would be a small fraction of those who are "in the system" today. Of course, no specific individual is going to volunteer to be Bubba's Bitch on principle, so the effect is that an unlimited number of people can be kept "in the system" at a cost asymptotically approaching zero as increasingly advanced monitoring technology gets mass produced. Since the only pretense a democracy can use for taking someones rights away is that they have been convicted of a crime, enough laws are made until everyone is guilty of something, and then they are selectively enforced. The first time someone annoys Big Brother, they are placed "in the system" and lose their right to be secure in their person and possessions, keep private journals, vote, work where they want, travel, own a firearm, and at no great cost to Big Brother either. "Parole" is the lubricant which makes this "democracy in name only" work effectively, and as Tim suggested, is a great force multiplier for oppressive governmental authority. Through plea bargaining, the sheep volunteer to be shorn, at no cost to Big Brother, and through parole, they voluntarily live with shorter chains and in smaller cages, for the privilege of a less painful hair removal process than sheep who protest. "Be thankful that parole exists" is not the way I would describe the above system. One should also bear in mind that in a system without parole, the government probably couldn't afford to make unimportant things illegal without bankrupting the taxpayers in the process, thus repairing your problem with the "criminalization of everyday life." It's not like Joe Sixpack is going to give up his Beernuts so we can give persons 10 year prison sentences for writing rude words in their diaries. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jul 4 15:33:48 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 17:33:48 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Fw: [Ne-anarchists-d] Re: FBI is investigating an alleged "Black Bloc" threat sent toPolitech (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 18:01:11 -0400 From: Any Mouse Subject: Fw: [Ne-anarchists-d] Re: FBI is investigating an alleged "Black Bloc" threat sent toPolitech Chuck's response below... By the way the Black Bloc is a tactic of demonstration, not a "group". If I may use a very loose analogy it's like saying that cypherpunks are all about PGP encrypted emails. The work that Chuck and other anarchists are doing in the area goes beyond Black Bloc and, yes, it does include Black Bloc when appropriate. There are active discussions about the possible mis-use or abuse of Black Bloc tactics in several large scale and highly visible incidences (such as the anti-globalization protests) that are due in large to the explosive growth of visibility for the tactics without the necessary education and organization. An effective Black Bloc has an effective and clearly defined message/slogan, same w/ goal, and a visible restraint mechanism. It's a sledge hammer against a door not a molotov cocktail thrown anonymously into a crowd. But I'm just a fly on the wall making some observations and can't by any means consider myself a scholar on the topic... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck0" To: "Declan McCullagh" Cc: ; Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 3:28 PM Subject: [Ne-anarchists-d] Re: FBI is investigating an alleged "Black Bloc" threat sent toPolitech > Declan McCullagh wrote: > > > > The FBI is investigating an alleged threat against the Cato Institute, the > > world's leading free-market think tank, sent to Politech. > > > > Chuck0 sent a message to Politech that I forwarded -- as > > part of an ongoing discussion about privacy and globalization -- on Monday: > > http://www.politechbot.com/p-02214.html > > > > The message said: "Cato's little insult of the black bloc means that we'll > > be paying Cato HQ a visit this coming September. People who work in glass > > buildings shouldn't throw the first rhetorical stones." > > It's interesting that so-called "libertarians" would run to the FBI when they > can't take a joke. My response to Declan McCullagh concerning Aaron Lukas' > article, a journalist whose work I respect and read on a regular basis, was > meant for Declan's eyes only, not the entirety of the Politech list. > > My comment about the "black bloc means that we'll be paying Cato HQ a visit this > coming September" didn't say anything about what the black bloc would do once it > reached Cato. It's not like I can tell the black bloc what to do. I they chose > to do this, perhaps they would consense to smoking some weed with the > Libertarians, since we do see eye to eye on drug policy. Of course, there are > many things we don't see eye to eye on, including free markets, free trade, and > running to the FBI when we can't take a joke. > > << Chuck0 >> > > Infoshop.org -> http://www.infoshop.org/ > Alternative Press Review -> http://www.altpr.org/ > Practical Anarchy Online -> http://www.practicalanarchy.org/ > Homepage -> http://flag.blackened.net/chuck0/home/ > > INTERNATIONALISM IN PRACTICE > > An American soldier in a hospital explained how he was wounded: He said, "I was > told that the way to tell a hostile Vietnamese from a friendly Vietnamese was to > shout 'To hell with Ho Chi Minh!' If he shoots, he's unfriendly. So I saw this > dude and yelled 'To hell with Ho Chi Minh!' and he yelled back, 'To hell with > President Johnson!' We were shaking hands when a truck hit us." > > (from 1,001 Ways to Beat the Draft, by Tuli Kupferburg). > _______________________________________________ > Ne-anarchists-d mailing list > Ne-anarchists-d at lists.2wrongs.net > To (un)subscribe: http://www.2wrongs.net/mailman/listinfo/ne-anarchists-d > Free hosting by http://www.2wrongs.net From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jul 4 15:36:24 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 17:36:24 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Fw: the masks we wear... [Fw: Autonomia and the Origin of the Black Bloc] (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 18:06:20 -0400 From: Any Mouse Subject: Fw: the masks we wear... [Fw: Autonomia and the Origin of the Black Bloc] More info on Black Bloc and some personal musings from sometime ago... ----- Original Message ----- From: Any Mouse Subject: the masks we wear... [Fw: Autonomia and the Origin of the Black Bloc] > Interesting read below. The problem w/ Black Bloc for those that don't advocate > violence or destruction (like myself) is that the larger the Black Bloc the more > likely you'll have rogue elements wanting to "fuck shit up". The mask is a > powerfull tool for solidarity and self defense- as can be seen in the Chiapas > example.... > > And more generally on masks... > > Milan Kundera wrote in _Immortality_ of a plane of existence after death where > the sentient forms had no faces. They visited the protagonist in life and > explained to her that faces are a primitive creation of man that are mearly > superficial and cosmetic in design and serve simply communicate via a visual > broadcast emotions in a raw and misinterpretable way to the eyes of others- > something the transient forms had outgrown after time and after having gained > the ability to share emotions through other, less mistakeable means. > > All absurd. > > There was another text who's author I can't remember who wrote of a species that > wore masks which bore memories of the individuals who previously work the masks. > The memories were encased in the mask by facial excretions that were a byproduct > of the centuries of ritualization of mask wearing. Most masks were handed down > generation to generation. The focus of the story was of one mask that was > passed down from a suspected serial rapist/murderer to his daughter after his > death. He died a natural death several years after being found innocent of the > alleged crimes by a jury of peers. His daughter put on the mask once and went > completely mad. > > The few. The proud. The Marines... > > I'll need to dig up some texts on Joseph Campbell and masks for the subway > rides... Just some passing thoughts... > ----- Original Message ----- > To: Any Mouse > Subject: FWD: Autonomia and the Origin of the Black Bloc > > > > Thought this was rather informative... > > > > > > >To: loveandrage , > > > Autopsy > > >Subject: AUT: aut and black blocking > > > > > >Autonomia and the Origin of the Black Bloc > > > > > >> Article by: Daniel Dylan Young > > >> Thursday 08 Feb 2001 > > >> > > >> Email: > > >> > > >> Summary:Whether the Black Bloc continues as a tactic or is abandoned, it > > >certainly has served its purpose. In certain places and times the Black Bloc > > >effectively empowered people to take action in collective solidarity against > > >the violence of state and capitalism. It is important that we neither cling > > >to it nostalgically as an outdated ritual or tradition, nor reject it > > >wholesale because it sometimes seems inappropriate. Rather we should > > >continue working pragmatically to fulfill our individual needs and desires > > >through various tactics and objectives, as they are appropriate at the > > >specific moment. Masking up in Black Bloc has its time and place, as do > > >other tactics which conflict with it. > > >> > > >> Article: > > >> \"Those in authority fear the mask for their power partly resides in > > >identifying, stamping and cataloguing: in knowing who you are...our masks > > >are not to conceal our identity but to reveal it...Today we shall give this > > >resistance a face; for by putting on our masks we reveal our unity; and by > > >raising our voices in the street together, we speak our anger at the > > >facelessness of power...\" > > >> > > >> --from a message printed on the inside of 9000 masks distributed at the > > >June 18th, 1999 Carnival Against Capital which destroyed the financial > > >district of central London > > >> > > >> At the WTO protests in Seattle last year, somewhere from 100 to 300 > > >anarchists and others dressed up in black and systematically trashed the > > >storefronts of odious multinational corporations. Since then the tactic of > > >the \"Black Bloc\" has been getting quite a bit of attention from different > > >people concerned with social change. All sorts of upper middle class, > > >trust-fund progressives and liberals have prattled on moralistically to > > >great length about how there is no room for such behavior in their movement. > > >At the same time, the Black Bloc in Seattle inspired a renewed interest in > > >militant protest tactics which do not placate authority or bow to its power. > > >The N30 Black Bloc, along with many other aspects of the events in Seattle, > > >has also inspired radical anarchists to stop hiding out inside liberal > > >activist groups with reformist agendas, and start being more vocal in their > > >demands for revolution and total social change. Besides the rapid > > >proliferation of anarchist publicatio! > > >> ns and organizations, clear evidence of this resurgence of anarchism in > > >the United States can be seen in the large Black Blocs which were present on > > >April 16th in Washington D.C., at the Democratic and Republican National > > >Conventions this summer, and at many other marches, protests and actions > > >from sea to shining sea. For good or ill, it seems that in the last year > > >the Black Bloc has become an American tradition, and it all started with > > >those brave kids back in Seattle. > > >> > > >> Or did it? In fact, November 30th was far from the first time that a large > > >group of radicals dressed up in black with black masks in order to engage in > > >militant protest in anonymity and solidarity. The Black Bloc as an agreed > > >upon protest tactic may be as much as 20 years old. Its origins in fact lie > > >with the European Autonomen or autonomists, a radical social movement that > > >didn\'t even necessarily proclaim itself anarchist, though many of its > > >tactics and ideas have become widely appreciated and adopted by > > >self-proclaimed anarchists. > > >> > > >> About Autonomy > > >> > > >> Autonomia, Autonomen, or autonomists have been the names used for various > > >popular social change and countercultural movements in Italy, Germany, > > >Denmark, Holland and other parts of Europe in the last 3 decades. All these > > >different movements have sought to radically oppose authority, domination > > >and violence anywhere that they exist in contemporary life (which is pretty > > >much everywhere). Autonomy in this case does not mean some kind of regional > > >superiority complex or isolationism, as with statist nationalism, nor does > > >it mean individual autonomy at the expense of the majority, as is the the > > >basis of capitalism. What autonomists value and desire is the freedom for > > >individuals to choose others with whom they share an affinity, and band > > >together with them to survive and fulfill all of their needs and desires > > >collectively, without interference from greedy, violent individuals or huge > > >inhuman bureaucracies. > > >> > > >> The first so-called autonomists were those individuals involved in the > > >Italian Autonomia movement that got its start during the Hot Autumn of 1969, > > >a time of intense social unrest. Throughout the 1970s in Italy a widespread > > >movement for total social change was initiated by autonomous groups of > > >factory workers, women and students. Capitalists, labor unions and the > > >statist Communist Party bureaucracy had nothing to do with this movement, > > >and in fact worked hard to repress and stop it. Yet the power structure was > > >often at a loss with how to deal with the near complete refusal of large > > >areas of the population to obey the rules and orders of authority. > > >> > > >> Despite the rapid proliferation of direct action, strikes, rent strikes, > > >mass squats, streetfighting, university occupations and other popularly > > >supported radical actions during the 1970s, the Italian movement eventually > > >subsided. This was partly due to violent attacks, imprisonment and murders > > >of radicals by the police and the Communist party-controlled central > > >government. At the same time the response to this escalation of state > > >violence was often an escalation of terrorism by elite radical urban > > >guerilla groups . This self-defensive terrorism often served to turn people > > >away from a large scale, public social change movement. Some chose to become > > >more militant and secretive, while others abandoned politics all together > > >for a seemingly more peaceful life of obedience to authority. > > >> > > >> Building Revolutionary Dual Power -- The Culture of the Autonomen > > >> > > >> Though the revolutionary potential of the Italian Autonomia in the 1970s > > >died down, their vibrance, confidence and empowerment was an inspiration to > > >young people in West Germany in the 1980s. Inspired also by the Amsterdam > > >squatters\' movements and youth organization in Switzerland, young Germans > > >in Berlin, Hamburg and other major cities began building their own > > >autonomous culture and social groups based upon radical resistance and > > >alternative ways of life. > > >> > > >> The direction and composition of radical organization in West Germany in > > >the 1980s was partly determined by the reigning economic recession and the > > >forms it took. Because of the well established connections between > > >industrial unions and the German government, the effects of this recession > > >were felt not so much by blue collar workers, but by young people who found > > >it increasingly impossible to secure jobs and housing and thereby move out > > >of their parents\' home and become socially and financially independent. > > >Therefore points for autonomous youth mobilization included the stifling > > >conformity of rural German society and the nuclear family, serious housing > > >shortages, high unemployment--as well as the continued illegal status of > > >abortion and government plans for a massive expansion of nuclear power. > > >> > > >> As a result of economic recession and flight to the suburbs, at the end of > > >the 1970s huge tracts of buildings in different German inner cities, > > >especially West Berlin, lay abandoned by developers or government agencies. > > >Squatting these buildings was a viable option for impoverished young people > > >looking for independence from the nuclear family home. Vibrant squatters\' > > >communities grew up in the Kreuzberg neighborhood of Berlin, the > > >Haffenstrasse squats of Hamburg and in other concentration points. The > > >cornerstone of these communities was communal living, and the creation of > > >radical social centers: infoshops, bookstores, coffeehouses, meeting halls, > > >bars, concert halls, art galleries, and other multi-use spaces where > > >grassroots political, artistic and social culture were developed as an > > >alternative to nuclear family life, TV dreams and mass-produced pop culture. > > >> > > >> >From these safe social spaces grew major grassroots initiatives to fight > > >nuclear power; to break down patriarchy and gender roles; to show solidarity > > >with oppressed people throughout the world by attacking the European-based > > >multinational corporations or financial institutions like the World Bank; > > >and after German reunification, to fight the rising tide of conservative > > >neo-Nazism. > > >> > > >> Similar initiatives for alternative living as resistance were percolating > > >in the 1980s (and in some places much earlier) in Holland, Denmark and > > >elsewhere throughout northern Europe. Eventually all of these northern > > >Europeans living in decentralized social groups dedicated to creating a > > >non-coercive, non-hierarchical society became collectively labeled as > > >\"Autonomen.\" Over time the autonomists\' ideas and tactics also migrated > > >throughout the reunited post-Iron Curtain Europe. I personally have visited > > >radical autonomous social centers in England, Spain, Italy, Croatia, > > >Slovenia, and the Czech Republic. > > >> > > >> Hardline Oppression, Militant Resistance, And the Origins of the Black > > >Bloc > > >> > > >> >From the beginning the West German state did not take kindly to young > > >Autonomen, whether they were occupying nuclear power plant building sites or > > >unused apartment buildings. In the winter of 1980 the Berlin city government > > >decided to take a hardline against the thousands of young people living in > > >squats throughout the city: they decided to criminalize, attack and evict > > >them into the cold winter streets. This was a much more shocking and unusual > > >action in Germany than it would be in the U.S., and created much popular > > >disgust and condemnation of the police and government. > > >> > > >> >From December 1980 on there was an escalating cycle of mass arrests, > > >street fighting, and new squatting in Berlin and throughout Germany. The > > >Autonomen were not to be cowed, and each eviction was responded to with > > >several new building occupations. When squatters in the south German city of > > >Freiburg were mass arrested, rallies and demonstrations supporting them and > > >condemning the police state\'s eviction policy took place in every major > > >city in Germany. In Berlin on that day, later dubbed \"Black Friday,\" > > >upwards of 15,000 to 20,000 people took to the streets and destroyed an > > >upper class shopping area.(1) > > >> > > >> This was the seething cauldron of oppression and resistance from which the > > >Black Bloc was birthed. In late 1981 the German government began legalizing > > >certain squats in an attempt to divide the counterculture and marginalize > > >more radical segments. But these tactics were slow to pacify the popular > > >radical movement--especially since the period of 1980-81 had seen not only a > > >brutal treatment of squatters but also the largest police mobilization in > > >Germany since the reign of the third Reich in order to attack non-violent, > > >sitting protesters at the \"Free Republic of Wendland,\" an encampment of > > >5000 activists blocking the construction of the Gorleben nuclear waste > > >dump.(2) Even formerly ardent pacifists had been radicalized by the > > >experience of sustained, violent police oppression against diverse squats > > >and activist occupations. > > >> > > >> In response to violent state oppression radical activists developed the > > >tactic of the Black Bloc: they went to protests and marches wearing black > > >motorcycle helmets and ski masks and dressing in uniform black clothing (or, > > >for the most prepared, wearing padding and steel-toed boots and bringing > > >their own shields and truncheons). In Black Bloc, autonomen and other > > >radicals could more effectively fend off police attacks, without being > > >singled out as individuals for arrest and harassment later on. And, as > > >everyone quickly figured out, having a massive group of people all dressed > > >the same with their faces covered not only helps in defending against the > > >police, but also makes it easier for saboteurs to take the offensive against > > >storefronts, banks and any other material symbols and power centers of > > >capitalism and the state. Masking up as a Black Bloc encouraged popular > > >participation in public property destruction and violence against the state > > >and capitalism. In this way the Blac! > > >> k Bloc is a form of militance that mitigates the problematic dichotomy > > >between popularly executed non-violent civil disobedience and elite, > > >secretive guerilla terrorism and sabotage. > > >> > > >> Autonomen Black Bloc Accomplishments > > >> > > >> Black Blocs, Autonomen militance, and popular resistance to the > > >police-state and the New World Order spread among European youth in the > > >1980s. > > >> > > >> Though Dutch radicals did not begin calling themselves \"Autonomen\" until > > >around 1986, earlier Dutch counterculture activists shared tactics, > > >organizing structures and militancy with self-proclaimed autonomists. > > >Holland\'s squatting movement really got started around 1968, and by 1981 > > >more then 10,000 houses and apartments were squatted in Amsterdam, and there > > >were around 15,000 squats in the rest of Holland. Squatted restaurants, > > >bars, cafes, and information centers were commonplace, and the organized > > >squatters (usually referred to as \"kraakers\") had their own council to > > >plan the movement\'s direction and their own newsradio station.(3) > > >> > > >> Although some Dutch autonomists rejected wearing ski masks while in Black > > >Bloc(4), the movement was no less militant. One book about the Dutch > > >squatters movement reports that \"Ever since the beginning there had been a > > >\'black helmet brigade\' which felt it had joined battle with municipal > > >social democracy.\"(5) > > >> > > >> Battles at the evictions of Amsterdam squats often featured the > > >construction of huge barricades and walled-in squatters tossing furniture > > >and other projectiles of all shapes and sizes out the window at riot police > > >below. In the early years there were certain limits to the violence which > > >Dutch squatters would use to retaliate against police attacks. However in > > >1985 when a squatter named Hans Kok died in police custody after being > > >arrested during a particularly brutal raid and eviction, the ante was upped. > > > > > >Following the news of his death a night of fiery destruction reigned in > > >Amsterdam, with even police cars set on fire in front of many different > > >precincts. Said one squatter: \"Everyone had the idea, now we\'ll use the > > >ultimate means, just before guns anyway: mollies...Everyone went around with > > >mollies in their pockets, everyone had full gasoline cans...it was the new > > >action method.\"(6) Though Hans Kok\'s death and the fiery retribution that > > >followed had a negative effect on! > > >> the popular squatters\' movement, the new militancy of tactics proved > > >useful in some activist circles. In 1985 the Dutch Anti-Racist Action Group > > >(RARA) mounted a successful campaign to force the Dutch supermarket chain > > >MARKO to divest from South Africa: the campaign was accomplished through a > > >series of extremely expensive and damaging firebombings of MARKO\'s stores > > >and offices.(7) > > >> > > >> In Germany in 1986 mounting police attacks and attempted evictions against > > >a complex of squatted houses in Hamburg called the Haffenstrasse were met > > >with the counteroffensive of a 10,000 person march surrounding at least 1500 > > >people in a Black Bloc, carrying a huge banner that read, \"Build > > >Revolutionary Dual Power!\" At the march\'s end, the Black Bloc was able to > > >successfully engage in street fighting that put the police on the retreat. > > >On the following day fires were set in 13 department stores in Hamburg, > > >causing nearly $10 million in damage.(8) > > >> > > >> That same year, the disaster at the Chernobyl nuclear power plant brought > > >new militance to demonstrations against nuclear power plants under > > >construction in Germany. Once account of these anti-nuclear demonstrations > > >reported, \"In scenes resembling \'civil war,\' helmeted, leather-clad > > >troops of the anarchist Autonomen armed with slingshots, Molotov cocktails > > >and flare guns clashed brutally with the police, who employed water cannons, > > >helicopters and CS gas (officially banned for use against civilians.\"(9) > > >> > > >> In June of 1987 when Ronald Reagan came to Berlin, around 50,000 people > > >demonstrated in the streets against this Cold War-mongering old man, > > >including a 3000 person Black Bloc.(10) A couple of months later police > > >antagonism against the Haffenstrasse intensified again. In November 1987 > > >residents and thousands of other Autonomen fortified the complex, built > > >barricades in the streets and fought off police for nearly 24 hours. In the > > >end the city chose to legalize the squatters\' residence.(11) > > >> > > >> Over ten years before Seattle and the American WTO protests, the Autonomen > > >mobilized a similar event with a greater number of resisters. In September > > >of 1988, the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund met in Berlin. > > >Autonomen used this meeting as a focal point for worldwide resistance to > > >global corporate capitalism and government\'s destruction of grassroots > > >autonomy and community. Thousands of activists from throughout Europe and > > >the U.S. were mobilized, and 80,000 protesters met the bankers (at least > > >30,000 more than in Seattle).(12) The totally outnumbered police and private > > >security at the event attempted to maintain order by banning all > > >demonstrations and brutally attacking any public assembly, but riots still > > >ravaged fashionable upper class shopping areas (as was tradition). > > >> > > >> Pre-Seattle Black Blocs In the U.S.A. > > >> > > >> In November of 1999 the Black Bloc tactic seemed new to many Americans > > >partly because the actions and ideas of the autonomist movement in Europe > > >were mostly blacked out of the American media and have been barely written > > >about at all in English. However, ignorance of the Black Bloc also stems > > >from the fact that most Americans get news of domestic events from a > > >corporate-controlled media that ignores any happenings that don\'t fit their > > >view and purposes, and which represents every event that takes place as > > >singular spectacle disconnected from past and future, to be forgotten in a > > >blur even when it is only a few months old. > > >> > > >> Radicals in the U.S. have never been totally ignorant of the actions and > > >ideas of European autonomists, and the development of the punk rock > > >subculture in the U.S. throughout the 1980s in many ways mirrored that of > > >the autonomists. By the beginning of the 1990\'s anarchists and other > > >radicals in the U.S. were masking up at marches and protests to build > > >solidarity and create anonymity for militants. > > >> > > >> When the Gulf War was going one protest in the streets of Washington D.C. > > >included a Black Bloc that smashed in the windows of the World Bank > > >building. That same year on Columbus Day in San Francisco a Black Bloc > > >showed up to help show militant resistance to the continuing genocide of > > >North American domination by Europeans.(13) Personally, the largest Black > > >Bloc that I\'ve ever seen was at the Millions March For Mumia in > > >Philadelphia in April of 1999. I\'d say there were at least 500 dressed in > > >Black, masked up, and carrying banners such as \"Vegans For Mumia.\" Though > > >there was no street fighting and no particularly noticeable property > > >destruction, some kids did manage to get into a parking garage along the > > >march route, climb to the roof and wave the black flag. > > >> > > >> The Global Future of the Black Mask > > >> > > >> The symbol of the black-masked autonomist militant has spread to the third > > >world as well. As the North American Free Trade Agreement\'s destructive > > >neo-liberalalizing economic policies took effect on January 1st, 1994, a > > >guerilla uprising took place in Chiapas, a state in southern Mexico. The > > >uprising sought to create space for the development of autonomous social > > >organization among downtrodden Mayan indigenous peoples. The armed wing of > > >this struggle for community autonomy and direct democracy without coercion > > >or hierarchy has been and continues to be the Zapatistas, men and women who > > >wear black balaclavas (similar to ski masks) whenever they appear in public. > > >Many autonomists and anarchists have visited and tried to help them in their > > >struggles with knowledge, money, materials and by building inernational > > >awareness and solidarity of the situation in Chiapas. > > >> > > >> Back in Germany, the Autonomen are seeing dark days. It is said that in > > >the past squatters held at least 165 large, five-story apartment buildings > > >in eastern Berlin, but by late 1997 only 3 remained.(14) Legalizing some > > >squats while brutally evicting others has been an effective policy for the > > >police state. Many people living in legalized squats are unwilling to rock > > >the boat by encouraging or expressing solidarity with militant tactics > > >practiced by other squatters, and this marginalization makes it easier for > > >the squatters to lose out in street-fighting against an increasingly > > >militarized police force. > > >> > > >> The resurgence of neo-Nazism in what once was East Germany and other areas > > >of the country has meant no end of troubles for German Autonomen. They face > > >violence and death from neo-Nazi attacks, especially in most of eastern > > >Germany which neo-Nazi gangs police as a \"no-punk, no-foreigner zone.\" > > >Massive amounts of Autonomen time and effort goes into organizing to oppose > > >the spread of neo-Nazism, but this means neglecting the tasks of developing > > >new viable alternatives to authoritarian society, one of the main original > > >goals of autonomists. \"Antifa\" or anti-fascist organizing brings the > > >Autonomen into more and more violent confrontations with the German police, > > >who basically support neo-Nazi groups and their nationalist, racist > > >ideologies--when individual police officers aren\'t directly involved with > > >fascist groups. > > >> > > >> Rumour has it that many militants in areas of northern Europe where the > > >Black Bloc was a common demonstration tactic have been increasingly given it > > >up, as it has ceased to serve its purpose. The forces of state repression > > >have caught on, and use ever greater technological, legal and physical force > > >to observe, isolate, pursue and target those involved in Black Blocs. A > > >similar process is taking place in the U.S., with a resurgence of > > >COINTELPRO-style tactics aimed at radicals who oppose the global > > >capitalist-statist American empire. > > >> > > >> Whether the Black Bloc continues as a tactic or is abandoned, it certainly > > >has served its purpose. In certain places and times the Black Bloc > > >effectively empowered people to take action in collective solidarity against > > >the violence of state and capitalism. It is important that we neither cling > > >to it nostalgically as an outdated ritual or tradition, nor reject it > > >wholesale because it sometimes seems inappropriate. Rather we should > > >continue working pragmatically to fulfill our individual needs and desires > > >through various tactics and objectives, as they are appropriate at the > > >specific moment. Masking up in Black Bloc has its time and place, as do > > >other tactics which conflict with it. > > >> > > >> 1. Katsiaficas, George. The Subversion of Politics: European Autonomous > > >Social Movements And The Decolonization of Everyday Life. New Jersey: > > >Humanities Press International, Inc., 1997, p. 91. > > >> > > >> 2. Katsiaficas, p. 82 > > >> > > >> 3. Katsiaficas, p. 116 > > >> > > >> 4. Katsiaficas, p. 116. > > >> > > >> 5. ADILKNO. Cracking The Movement: Squatting Beyond the Media. Trans. > > >Laura Martz. New York: Autonomedia, 1990. p. 25. > > >> > > >> 6. ADILKNO, 123 > > >> > > >> 7. Katsiaficas, 119. > > >> > > >> 8. Katsiaficas, 128. > > >> > > >> 9. Katsiaficas, 211. > > >> > > >> 10. Katsiaficas, 131. > > >> > > >> 11. Katsiaficas, 130. > > >> > > >> 12. Katsiaficas, 131. > > >> > > >> 13. Mid-Atlantic Infoshop. \"Black Bloc For Dummies.\" > > > > > >> > > >> 14. Thompson, A. Clay. \"Street Battles--German Squatters Squeezed to Near > > >Extinction.\" > > > > > > From Eugene.Leitl at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Wed Jul 4 08:38:11 2001 From: Eugene.Leitl at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Eugene Leitl) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 17:38:11 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: [OT,long] "Zeroing" a machine / flashing from OS (fwd) Message-ID: -- Eugen* Leitl leitl ______________________________________________________________ ICBMTO : N48 10'07'' E011 33'53'' http://www.lrz.de/~ui22204 57F9CFD3: ED90 0433 EB74 E4A9 537F CFF5 86E7 629B 57F9 CFD3 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 11:13:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Arbaugh To: Peter Lister Cc: linuxbios at lanl.gov Subject: Re: [OT,long] "Zeroing" a machine / flashing from OS I essentially solved this problem with a prototype built using the 430HX chipset a few years ago. The project, AEGIS, used the boot block portion of the flash to hold intitialization and recovery code. Everything else had a digital signature paired with it. Prior to passing exec control to the next step- the signature is checked. If it's valid, then we pass control. If it's not, then we try to recover a valid version. Essentially, I built a prototype of the TCPA spec (www.trustedpc.org) before the TCPA was even a thought. That's history. Today, we've been funded by DARPA to add this same functionality to LinuxBIOS (or at least use the init routines from LinuxBIOS). We also will add crypto hardware support. We're just getting started, but we hope to have some results late summer early fall. We're also hoping to team up with a major manufacturer so that we can have the capability on their servers and laptops. Our biggest problem is that we don't want users to have to change their flash chip. That means that we can't use Linux as the loader. Instead, we need to use something along the lines of GRUB. We're looking at a number of alternatives now, and we'll let everyone know what we find. Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Arbaugh www.cs.umd.edu/~waa University of Maryland waa at cs.umd.edu College Park 301.405.2774 ------------------------------------------------------------------- On Sat, 30 Jun 2001, Peter Lister wrote: > James Finnie said... > > > Many boards do infact have a jumper on the board, which removes the > > ability to flash the BIOS without having physical access to reset > > the jumper - these mechanisms are completely secure, as they disable > > one of the flash chip write pins. And lets face it, if people have > > physical access to the machine, and want to do you some damage, > > there is little you can do about it. > > I'm thinking of cases where a hostile party can run any *software*, > including an arbitrary bootloader or OS, but can't get access to the > hardware to set a jumper or hit a switch (unless it's a software > controlled switch, of course - which includes the ATX "power switch"; > more of a polite hint to shut down). You tell me that the jumpers *do* > provide physical security. Fine - though it occurs to me that the > manufacturer's "secret" flash code might just look at the state > indicated by said jumper and refuse to flash, with no physical control. > Few people would know the difference. > > Yes, if someone has physical access, all bets are off - the question is > "How close can I get to physical access just via software?" and the > answer would appear to be "If I can flash system rom with an evil BIOS, > pretty close". > > > If a hacker has gained sufficient access to your mission critical > > datacenter systems through a trojan, in order to be able to run some > > arbitrary flashing code, I would say that was the least of your > > worries.... they already have access to whatever they could want, > > why would they bother implanting a trojan BIOS? > > Because it survives the scrubbing of magnetic media - even the complete > disassembly of the machine. Done well, it would be undetectable by any > current virus checker. You have to assume, for instance, that it could > pervert the disk controllers. I'm probably not interested in user A, > whose lax security gave me a root exploit (as you say, he's screwed > anyway) - I'll bide my time and wait until A has gone bankrupt and all > the computer systems are auctioned off to user B - whose system is > otherwise impregnable. > > I appreciate that commodity hardware is not designed for this sort of > security, since it is considered desirable to update in the field with > just a floppy. Most people consider a system board with BIOS as just a > component. Machines are being treated more as anonymous cluster members > than standalone systems with specific identities, so that it seems > likely that they will be moved between jobs quite dynamically. > > Given the stories of trivial "write protection", manufacturers > assurances of security seem generally worthless. :) Probably the best > defense would be a hardware "factory settings" switch which zaps all > nonvolatile storage back to a burned-in state, rather than relying on > "write protection". The machine could press its own button, since that > would be a guaranteed safe option, as even hostile software could do no > more than reinstate the trusted code. > > Don't be surprised when the first LinuxBIOS derived rom virus toolkit > gets into the hands of the script kiddies and the FBI arrests Ron. Of > course, this may be the best way to get the manufacturers to solve the > problem (a virus, not arresting Ron). > > -- > Peter Lister, Sychron Inc. - 1-866-SYCHRON > Intelligent Infrastructure - www.sychron.com From Eugene.Leitl at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Wed Jul 4 08:38:11 2001 From: Eugene.Leitl at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Eugene Leitl) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 17:38:11 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: [OT,long] "Zeroing" a machine / flashing from OS (fwd) Message-ID: -- Eugen* Leitl leitl ______________________________________________________________ ICBMTO : N48 10'07'' E011 33'53'' http://www.lrz.de/~ui22204 57F9CFD3: ED90 0433 EB74 E4A9 537F CFF5 86E7 629B 57F9 CFD3 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 11:13:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Arbaugh To: Peter Lister Cc: linuxbios at lanl.gov Subject: Re: [OT,long] "Zeroing" a machine / flashing from OS I essentially solved this problem with a prototype built using the 430HX chipset a few years ago. The project, AEGIS, used the boot block portion of the flash to hold intitialization and recovery code. Everything else had a digital signature paired with it. Prior to passing exec control to the next step- the signature is checked. If it's valid, then we pass control. If it's not, then we try to recover a valid version. Essentially, I built a prototype of the TCPA spec (www.trustedpc.org) before the TCPA was even a thought. That's history. Today, we've been funded by DARPA to add this same functionality to LinuxBIOS (or at least use the init routines from LinuxBIOS). We also will add crypto hardware support. We're just getting started, but we hope to have some results late summer early fall. We're also hoping to team up with a major manufacturer so that we can have the capability on their servers and laptops. Our biggest problem is that we don't want users to have to change their flash chip. That means that we can't use Linux as the loader. Instead, we need to use something along the lines of GRUB. We're looking at a number of alternatives now, and we'll let everyone know what we find. Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Arbaugh www.cs.umd.edu/~waa University of Maryland waa at cs.umd.edu College Park 301.405.2774 ------------------------------------------------------------------- On Sat, 30 Jun 2001, Peter Lister wrote: > James Finnie said... > > > Many boards do infact have a jumper on the board, which removes the > > ability to flash the BIOS without having physical access to reset > > the jumper - these mechanisms are completely secure, as they disable > > one of the flash chip write pins. And lets face it, if people have > > physical access to the machine, and want to do you some damage, > > there is little you can do about it. > > I'm thinking of cases where a hostile party can run any *software*, > including an arbitrary bootloader or OS, but can't get access to the > hardware to set a jumper or hit a switch (unless it's a software > controlled switch, of course - which includes the ATX "power switch"; > more of a polite hint to shut down). You tell me that the jumpers *do* > provide physical security. Fine - though it occurs to me that the > manufacturer's "secret" flash code might just look at the state > indicated by said jumper and refuse to flash, with no physical control. > Few people would know the difference. > > Yes, if someone has physical access, all bets are off - the question is > "How close can I get to physical access just via software?" and the > answer would appear to be "If I can flash system rom with an evil BIOS, > pretty close". > > > If a hacker has gained sufficient access to your mission critical > > datacenter systems through a trojan, in order to be able to run some > > arbitrary flashing code, I would say that was the least of your > > worries.... they already have access to whatever they could want, > > why would they bother implanting a trojan BIOS? > > Because it survives the scrubbing of magnetic media - even the complete > disassembly of the machine. Done well, it would be undetectable by any > current virus checker. You have to assume, for instance, that it could > pervert the disk controllers. I'm probably not interested in user A, > whose lax security gave me a root exploit (as you say, he's screwed > anyway) - I'll bide my time and wait until A has gone bankrupt and all > the computer systems are auctioned off to user B - whose system is > otherwise impregnable. > > I appreciate that commodity hardware is not designed for this sort of > security, since it is considered desirable to update in the field with > just a floppy. Most people consider a system board with BIOS as just a > component. Machines are being treated more as anonymous cluster members > than standalone systems with specific identities, so that it seems > likely that they will be moved between jobs quite dynamically. > > Given the stories of trivial "write protection", manufacturers > assurances of security seem generally worthless. :) Probably the best > defense would be a hardware "factory settings" switch which zaps all > nonvolatile storage back to a burned-in state, rather than relying on > "write protection". The machine could press its own button, since that > would be a guaranteed safe option, as even hostile software could do no > more than reinstate the trusted code. > > Don't be surprised when the first LinuxBIOS derived rom virus toolkit > gets into the hands of the script kiddies and the FBI arrests Ron. Of > course, this may be the best way to get the manufacturers to solve the > problem (a virus, not arresting Ron). > > -- > Peter Lister, Sychron Inc. - 1-866-SYCHRON > Intelligent Infrastructure - www.sychron.com > > > From sandfort at mindspring.com Wed Jul 4 17:55:05 2001 From: sandfort at mindspring.com (Sandy Sandfort) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 17:55:05 -0700 Subject: Most of a nation on probation? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sampo Syreeni wrote: > The primary reason is that the > society simply isn't willing to > invest enough in prisons to carry > the load, contrary to what you > originally claimed. I don't think I claimed that. I said that the cost curve wasn't strictly linear. Before they release prisoners, the crowding must first become unbearable. So that means prisons are all running along the ragged edge of overcrowding. This makes parole a MUCH better deal for the prisoner, which was my point. > That's just the point -- you can't > [get rid of the laws]. The political > machine simply does not work that way, Well if so, it certainly doesn't allow for your solution. We have seen countries and jurisdictions relax their drug laws, for example. Remember, the US repealed an anti-drug constitutional amendment. If they can go through all the sturm und drang required to repeal an amendment, I don't see why mere statutes can't be undone. > >> From the standpoint of individual > >> freedom, one might argue that more > >> people are now hurting. > > > >Than what, Utopia? > > Than anywhere else in the world. Well, American prisoners are in American prisons. This discussion has been about the situation in the US vis-`-vis, parole. > Europeans' fairly humane attitudes > towards prison inmates largely serve > the purpose Tim and I are after with > the cost talk. The mechanism isn't > nearly as important as the underlying > necessity of imposing a real cost on > governments' harmful activities. That > is the only way that really works; > goodwill simply does not get things > done. So let me get this straight. You thing getting Americans (the majority of whom favor the death penalty) to buy "kinder, gentler" prisons is going to be easier than getting them to repeal bad laws? Yeah, that's going to happen. > >That isn't the choice now. It's > >between getting out or staying > >in a hell-hole prison. > > Not true. The same argument you use, > i.e. that habitual restrictions on > freedom can be traded for at least > /some/ freedom, can be used to argue > that you can always sacrifice your > freedom in order to stay out of jail > in the first place. You are correct, it can. Scary, huh? But my point is still true people WHO ARE ALREADY IN PRISON would prefer to be under restrictive parole than in some hell-hole prison. You said "not true," but do you really believe prison is preferable, even your "kindler, gentler" European prisons? > >Nobody is hurt by parole. > > I hope that was meant as a joke. Nope, dead serious when compared to the alternative. Did I need to make that explicit? So folks, I'm going off to celebrate my dwindling freedoms this Independence Day by going to a movie with a pretty girl. Please feel free to argue among yourselves in my absence. :-D S a n d y From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jul 4 16:04:15 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 18:04:15 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Another problem with 'automated enforcement' In-Reply-To: <20010704125923.C27788@cluebot.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Declan McCullagh wrote: > How do you call a radar gun or a 7-11 video camera or a fingerprint > matching computer or an EZ-Pass that says someone was speeding? > > Answer: You don't. You call the technician who runs the device, or the > person who developed the device, and try to establish that the facts > are true. Defense can challenge, but don't be surprised if they're > unsuccessful. There is a difference between 'evidence' and 'testimony' that is being lost when camera's can automatically mail tickets, or anytime a (non-sentient) machine can instigate legal proceedings or determine guilt with no human intervention or management. Not a good thing. -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jul 4 16:32:25 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 18:32:25 -0500 Subject: US prison population to reach a record two million by year's end Message-ID: <3B43A789.B5DA56AC@ssz.com> http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/mar2001/pris-m28.shtml -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jul 4 16:33:42 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 18:33:42 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Most of a nation on probation? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Sandy Sandfort wrote: > I'm sure that "cost-effectiveness" has a role to play here. I just don't > agree that the cost savings of parole are all that big a factor. The US has > more prisoners per capital than just about anyone (I think the US is > surpassed by Russia and maybe South Africa). So we've already made the > decision that we can afford to lock up a lot of people. Got any cites? Thought not (as usual you make the shit up as you go along). That's ok, I provided some.... We're 5% of the world population and we've got 25% of the prisoners. -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jul 4 16:38:26 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 18:38:26 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Slashdot | Using GPS To Catch Speeders Found Illegal In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010704093410.03a35008@pop3.lvcm.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Steve Schear wrote: > They were not enforcing the state's speeding regulations. Yes, they are. > They were increasing the price of the rental to compensate for their > increased exposure to costs due to accidents. Alleged increased exposure. Nothing was proven. -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jul 4 16:40:34 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 18:40:34 -0500 Subject: Slashdot | Water Guns Message-ID: <3B43A972.C2AFA3D8@ssz.com> http://slashdot.org/articles/01/07/04/2112244.shtml -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From declan at well.com Wed Jul 4 15:56:49 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 18:56:49 -0400 Subject: Forbidden Knowledge (Banned Research, Part II) In-Reply-To: ; from decoy@iki.fi on Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 01:29:35AM +0300 References: Message-ID: <20010704185649.A1623@cluebot.com> On Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 01:29:35AM +0300, Sampo Syreeni wrote: > Hasn't it been, already? If I'm not mistaken, people already go to prison > for writing viruses. Ditto for hacking tools, TPM circumvention software, > and soon probably spamming tools as well. Well put. See a bill in Congress to do just that: http://www.politechbot.com/p-01849.html -Declan From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jul 4 16:57:57 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 18:57:57 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Most of a nation on probation? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Sandy Sandfort wrote: > Yes that IS the choice. This is not a logical fallacy. This is the real > choice real people have to make every day. "Changing the system" is not an > individual option. Not only is it a logical fallicy, but a legal one as well. It's all(!) a personal choice. Saying "I passed this law I knew was unconstitutional because it was the only thing I could think of" doesn't excuse the abuse. ONLY individuals have that right...it's a pity we've lost the true meaning of 'American Democracy'. Just too radical for most folks I guess. When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jul 4 17:06:56 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 19:06:56 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Most of a nation on probation? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Sandy Sandfort wrote: > Unfortunately, "whining" is just that. Not much is done about it. Bull, see forward... -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jul 4 17:08:00 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 19:08:00 -0500 Subject: Texas Prison Population Declining Message-ID: <3B43AFE0.186CA230@ssz.com> http://www.kxan.com/Global/story.asp?S=389632&nav=0s3c -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From marilyn_western at yahoo.com Wed Jul 4 19:14:05 2001 From: marilyn_western at yahoo.com (Marilyn) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 19:14:05 Subject: Win a free Luxury Cruise with your family Message-ID: <200107041620.f64GK4j24422@rigel.cyberpass.net> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 6009 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ashley.david at freemail.absa.co.za Wed Jul 4 19:48:58 2001 From: ashley.david at freemail.absa.co.za (ashley.david) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 19:48:58 -0700 Subject: pgp crack Message-ID: <000801c104fd$0db6b800$9df7cba3@x5p7p9> i have lost my private key can you help open my file -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 419 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jul 4 18:11:06 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 20:11:06 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Slashdot | Using GPS To Catch Speeders Found Illegal In-Reply-To: <20010703181330.A27644@cluebot.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Declan McCullagh wrote: > If the speed limits were 85 mph and a rental car company decided it > only wanted drivers to go 65 mph, they could put this in their contract > and enforce if, if they so choose. How? The only ethical way would be to either put a govenor on the vehicle or else have somebody ride along with you. Otherwise they'd just have to trust the civil authorities to catch speeders. > If they misjudge and drivers really, really want to go 85 mph, they > will lose business. Such are the gusting winds of the market. Not necessarily, there is an issue of cognisence and alternative. For example, let's say that the contract says 65 max, but somebody goes 85. How's the company going to know? > You may reasonably say that private companies should not be the > enforcement arms of the state, but they should be allowed to make their > own decisions when voluntarily choosing to do so. Within limits, yes. The question is where are the limits. -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jul 4 18:12:52 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 20:12:52 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Cloning, miscarriange, and the 1st In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, petro wrote: > Did you read what he said? As much as I hate to stand up for > Choate, you seem to be reiterating his point--that Eugenics is This is a perfect example of what's wrong with modern America, it's all about personalities - not issues, facts, and reason. Excuse me, I gotta go puke. What a dip-shit comment to make. -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From honig at sprynet.com Wed Jul 4 20:26:38 2001 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 20:26:38 -0700 Subject: Another problem with 'automated enforcement' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010704202638.00807520@pop.sprynet.com> At 05:43 PM 7/3/01 -0500, Jim Choate wrote: >How do you call a video camera to the stand to give their deposition as >to the situation in which the photo was taken? Same way you query a radar 'gun' about the speed you were ticketed for. Calibration, for instance. From honig at sprynet.com Wed Jul 4 20:29:56 2001 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 20:29:56 -0700 Subject: Kyllo: Taking the 5th on the 4th In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010703104644.04464fc0@pop3.lvcm.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20010703104644.04464fc0@pop3.lvcm.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010704202956.00808880@pop.sprynet.com> At 06:44 PM 7/3/01 -0700, petro wrote: >>Although the ruling only appears to apply to one's home it does >>raise questions whether citizens may have the right to prevent their >>observation while in public. After all one is permitted tinted >>windows on autos. Despite certain > > Not everywhere, and even then not all windows. Forget windows. Noone tells bimbos to remove wigs, facepaint, sunglasses, gloves, various subdermal implants. You can, of course, *observe* them, but you can't force them to reveal (flash to Planet of the Apes sequel) their *true face*. From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jul 4 19:11:19 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 21:11:19 -0500 Subject: Parole in America's criminal system Message-ID: <3B43CCC7.443683C9@ssz.com> http://www.allsands.com/History/Events/parolecriminal_xsa_gn.htm -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jul 4 19:12:40 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 21:12:40 -0500 Subject: Slashdot | Supercomputing and Climate Research Message-ID: <3B43CD18.E216D5A@ssz.com> http://slashdot.org/science/01/07/04/2311244.shtml -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From measl at mfn.org Wed Jul 4 19:12:46 2001 From: measl at mfn.org (measl at mfn.org) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 21:12:46 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [FREE] Sell a Glowstick, Go to Prison (fwd) Message-ID: ------------------------------------- Sell a Glowstick, Go to Prison http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=11116 Authorities are shutting down 21st-century raves using 1980s crack-house laws -- and turning pacifiers and Vicks VapoRub into the new drug paraphernalia. ------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jul 4 19:42:48 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 21:42:48 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Slashdot | Using GPS To Catch Speeders Found Illegal In-Reply-To: <20010704221121.A6210@cluebot.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Declan McCullagh wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 04, 2001 at 08:11:06PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > > On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Declan McCullagh wrote: > > > > > If the speed limits were 85 mph and a rental car company decided it > > > only wanted drivers to go 65 mph, they could put this in their contract > > > and enforce if, if they so choose. > > > > How? The only ethical way would be to either put a govenor on the vehicle > > or else have somebody ride along with you. Otherwise they'd just have to > > trust the civil authorities to catch speeders. > > 1. Notify renters you're going to GPS track the car to catch speeders > 2. GPS track the car to catch speeders > 3. Fine speeders > 4. Tell them you've fined them > > Perfectly ethical, though probably bad business practice. Actually it's not, it's a strawman to draw in more income. If the auto vendor was really concerned about their vehicle they'd install a govenor (like they did on the '64 1/2 Mustand for example) that would limit the RPM's of the engine. Quick, easy, simple. A lot(!!!) less expensive (about $20) and more reliable than a GPS receiver. It's the typical bait and switch (typical of capitalist/libertarian goals that is). What's an example of why this process won't work? Consider the GPS is set for 55MPH and the customer is doing exactly 50MPG (hence not being shown as a speeder) but is in a 30MPH zone. -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From aimee.farr at pobox.com Wed Jul 4 19:54:28 2001 From: aimee.farr at pobox.com (Aimee Farr) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 21:54:28 -0500 Subject: "smart cctv in use" (Tampa face-scanning CCTV) In-Reply-To: <200107030354.UAA13383@user5.hushmail.com> Message-ID: FROM VISIONICS PR DEPT: 7 Clear signage has been posted throughout the area indicating that Smart CCTV is in use; 7 The images in the database are those of known offenders; 7 Non-matching images are discarded from the system once the comparison has been conducted. "Smart CCTV" sign. Good enough to fool not only the average wanted criminal, but the average American. ~Aimee From amaha at vsnl.net Wed Jul 4 09:31:07 2001 From: amaha at vsnl.net (Fountain Of Joy) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 22:01:07 +0530 (IST) Subject: Thought-A-Day Message-ID: <20010704163107.F1E4824463@mmb1.vsnl.net.in> Never give in,never,never,never,never. --Winston Churchill ********************************************************************************** Your name has been recommended to receive thoughts of wisdom from Fountain of Joy. These thoughts will be delivered, free of cost, to your desktop,everyday, for an initial evaluation period. We believe that the meaningful insights of these carefully selected thoughts will make your life peaceful,successful & happy in a way you had never imagined before. However, if you desire to unsubscribe, reply to this email with 'remove' in the subject line. Director, Fountain of Joy (Non-religious Organisation) From declan at well.com Wed Jul 4 19:11:22 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 22:11:22 -0400 Subject: Slashdot | Using GPS To Catch Speeders Found Illegal In-Reply-To: ; from ravage@ssz.com on Wed, Jul 04, 2001 at 08:11:06PM -0500 References: <20010703181330.A27644@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <20010704221121.A6210@cluebot.com> On Wed, Jul 04, 2001 at 08:11:06PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Declan McCullagh wrote: > > > If the speed limits were 85 mph and a rental car company decided it > > only wanted drivers to go 65 mph, they could put this in their contract > > and enforce if, if they so choose. > > How? The only ethical way would be to either put a govenor on the vehicle > or else have somebody ride along with you. Otherwise they'd just have to > trust the civil authorities to catch speeders. 1. Notify renters you're going to GPS track the car to catch speeders 2. GPS track the car to catch speeders 3. Fine speeders 4. Tell them you've fined them Perfectly ethical, though probably bad business practice. -Declan From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jul 4 20:16:49 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 22:16:49 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Why Auto-GPS speed regulation is doomed to fail Message-ID: Find the blue or black wire and pull the fuse. -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jul 4 20:22:48 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 22:22:48 -0500 Subject: Stench warfare and stink bombs-U.S. secret weapon? Message-ID: <3B43DD88.3FFE5C4D@ssz.com> http://uk.news.yahoo.com/010704/80/bxdin.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jul 4 20:33:13 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 22:33:13 -0500 (CDT) Subject: The Libertarian Approach to Contracts (eg GPS Speed Regulation) Message-ID: Why is there no mention in the contract of: - Providing the customer the data upon return to the shop for review - A dispute mechanism (heavily used I predict) - Why should the auto manufacturer know all the places I've been in their car, what if the locations are business sensitive - Can the rental agency sell that data to others - Is it ethical to sell the data to the drivers regular insurance carrier even though there is no indication that the behaviour in the rental auto is comparable to behaviour in their own car (I know lots of people who figure 'I paid the insurance and it ain't my car, what the hell') - And who arbitrates the dispute, clearly it shouldn't be the rental agency as they have a vested interest The typical Libertarian approach is to support whatever puts the primary service provider (Libertarians almost always use producer-consumer examples, why is that?) in the primary profit making position and the service consumer in the least protected position. The typical Libertarian figures that if you can make a buck of the sucker, then any failure or harm in the contract by the provider is the dumb blind luck of the consumer. The concept of 'fair' is a pretty rare concept for most Libertarians. Then again, what is 'fair'? (Being a Pantheist the concept of 'absolute right/wrong' is foreign to me, only within the concept of human psychology and a specific social milieu is it definable) -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jul 4 20:42:50 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 22:42:50 -0500 (CDT) Subject: A quote I love... Message-ID: "...: business and investors are scared of radical technology." pp. 239 Last Talons of the Eagle Secret Nazi Technology which could have changed the course of WWII G. Hyland, A. Gill ISBN 0-7472-5964-x -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From roach_s at intplsrv.net Wed Jul 4 20:53:23 2001 From: roach_s at intplsrv.net (Sean Roach) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 22:53:23 -0500 Subject: Tampa using cameras to scan for wanted faces-- Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.1.20010704225303.00b109b0@mail.intplsrv.net> Can the program be thrown off with masks? If so, how about making some of those advertisement fans with the pictures of random people wanted for parking tickets on them, then walk through that end of town. Possibly better yet would be fliers, balloons, and bumper stickers. These could be given away to people in areas that don't particulary trust the local police anyway, or simply applied to cars of people who frequent areas such as the employee parking of the local court house. Either could be distributed to bars. Can the things be fooled by using black markers to add shadows where there should be none? Will painted on faces become the new rage in Tampa? I can just see people wearing "war paint", some to avoid the cameras, the rest because it's fashionable. At 09:26 PM 7/2/2001 -0400, George at Orwellian.Org wrote: Someone is Usenet wants to hassle the cameras with paintball guns. ---- http://www.baynews9.com/newsstory.asp?storyname=2001/June/30/ybor # # Orwell wrote 1984 warning for Britain. It is truly spooky how close he # was to the truth, though a bit late in the time frame. # # No one expected it to apply, too, to America. Yet, here it is. It is # far more sinister than people realize. As one reader already mentioned # in one thread: " this can readily be used for people carrying guns." # That, and the identification of members of the NRA, JPFO, GOA, North # Caucus, CCOPS, RKBA, and instant notification of the street cop in the # vicinity, and we have a far more THOROUGH Tyranny than even the North # Caucus envisioned when it began warning the people and government some # years ago. # # Our question, this time: "how accurate are paint guns? Seriously. # Could a # good shot peg these cameras from the street below?" We have similar # cameras # in a towns in Georgia, watching traffic for people running stop # lights. How long before those cameras are silently hooked into this # network for face recognition? # # It's time for civil disobedience. # 1) Arm yourselves in anticipation of a governmental advance on your # firearms. # 2) Get paint gun specialists to try these cameras. # 3) WARN the governments, local, state and national, that we won't stay # put # for such tyranny as they envision. # Our warning: # http://www.geocities.com/north_caucus [ an extremely alarmed over gun rights site ] # # Ben Waldo # North Caucus of America # Florida Section From maxinux at bigfoot.com Wed Jul 4 22:54:14 2001 From: maxinux at bigfoot.com (maxinux) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 22:54:14 -0700 Subject: Why Auto-GPS speed regulation is doomed to fail In-Reply-To: ; from ravage@ssz.com on Wed, Jul 04, 2001 at 10:16:49PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010704225414.A9073@spheno.jokeslayer.com> On Wed, Jul 04, 2001 at 10:16:49PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > > Find the blue or black wire and pull the fuse. Until that enables an ignition lock. From measl at mfn.org Wed Jul 4 21:16:58 2001 From: measl at mfn.org (measl at mfn.org) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 23:16:58 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Slashdot | Using GPS To Catch Speeders Found Illegal In-Reply-To: <20010704235515.A29281@positron.mit.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Riad S. Wahby wrote: > A speeder, in this discussion, is a person who breaks the speed limit > imposed by the _rental_contract_, not the state. If the company has > the technological ability to accurately (or inaccurately, although > that would probably be bad for business) measure the speed of the car, > they can tell if the person is exceeding their contractually > determined speed, that is, "speeding." If the contract says they can > charge $5000000 for each infraction, they can. Period. Even though it's likely irrelevent over the long term, I would expect that the contract would be somewhat self-destructive where it comes into conflict with State law, for example, where the vehicle is required by law to travel at some minimum speed (45mph on the highways around here), and the rental contract specifies something different. Obviously, I pulled this example out of my ass, and it is unlikely that any of these contracts would attempt to enforce such a low limit, however, it is descriptive as an example of public policy vs private contract interests. I am sure that the lawyercritters have given us any number of strange and not so wonderful laws which could find themselves in disagreement with these private contracts... -- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin at mfn.org If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... -------------------------------------------------------------------- From registration at ifilm.com Wed Jul 4 23:17:38 2001 From: registration at ifilm.com (registration at ifilm.com) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 23:17:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Success! Your IFILM membership is confirmed! Message-ID: <200107050617.XAA91253@ns1.ifilm.com> Dear cypunks, Welcome to IFILM! Your membership is your ticket to IFILM: The Internet Movie Guide. >From "Some Like It Hot" to "Spider-Man" and "satire" to "swashbucklers," IFILM has what you want on every film ever released--and every new movie. It's the only place to find and watch all the movies online NOW. Be sure to check back daily for the latest movie info. 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ANNA KOURNICOVA CATHERINE ZETA JONES CINDY CRAWFORD ARE JUST A FEW OF THE BIG NAME STARS THAT WE HAVE ON OUR SITE EVER WONDERED WHAT YOUR FAVOURITE STAR LOOKED LIKE WITH A BIG COCK IN HER ASS HERE IS YOUR CHANCE http://www.geocities.com/superstarxxxpussy ****************************************************************** TO HAVE YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED FROM OUR MAILING LISTS GO TO http://www.geocities.com/cancelxxcancel From rsw at MIT.EDU Wed Jul 4 20:55:16 2001 From: rsw at MIT.EDU (Riad S. Wahby) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 23:55:16 -0400 Subject: Slashdot | Using GPS To Catch Speeders Found Illegal In-Reply-To: ; from ravage@ssz.com on Wed, Jul 04, 2001 at 09:42:48PM -0500 References: <20010704221121.A6210@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <20010704235515.A29281@positron.mit.edu> Jim Choate wrote: > What's an example of why this process won't work? Consider the GPS is set > for 55MPH and the customer is doing exactly 50MPG (hence not being shown > as a speeder) but is in a 30MPH zone. Squirrel definitions won't help you, Jim. Neither will the ridiculous straw men you're erecting. A speeder, in this discussion, is a person who breaks the speed limit imposed by the _rental_contract_, not the state. If the company has the technological ability to accurately (or inaccurately, although that would probably be bad for business) measure the speed of the car, they can tell if the person is exceeding their contractually determined speed, that is, "speeding." If the contract says they can charge $5000000 for each infraction, they can. Period. Like Declan and Steve point out, the consumer may not be happy with this. If they're not, they can go somewhere else. -- Riad Wahby rsw at mit.edu MIT VI-2/A 2002 5105 From zenadmen at zenadmen.com Wed Jul 4 21:59:22 2001 From: zenadmen at zenadmen.com (zenadmen at zenadmen.com) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 23:59:22 -0500 Subject: Most of a nation on probation? In-Reply-To: References: <200107050025.f650P8W08778@artifact.psychedelic.net> Message-ID: <3B43ADDA.12641.C82DD6@localhost> On 5 Jul 2001, at 3:59, Sampo Syreeni wrote: > On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Eric Cordian wrote: > > >If everyone refused plea bargaining, and refused parole, the number of > >people who could be prosecuted and jailed would be a small fraction of > >those who are "in the system" today. > > I think the relative cost of parole vs. completing the sentence is the > pertinent question -- the parole system can be a wonderful thing, as Sandy > says, but the government should never be able to reduce costs by using it. > There should be paroles, but their cost should somehow be forced to the same > level as serving the time behind bars. After that the only reason to let > someone out would be the balance between the prospect of rehabilitation vs. > risk taken. If a non-expert may interject.. while I can't judge how realistic it would be to repeal laws or to do some of the other things mentioned in this thread, it seems to me that "making parole cost less" would be defeated by the simple economics of spending x to house someone, and not spending x not to. Like I say, I'm not intimate with the details of costs of prisons or of monitoring parolees - is there more to it than that? It seems like it would be too artificial to simply add costs where there aren't any. sparkane > > Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy, mailto:decoy at iki.fi, gsm: +358-50-5756111 > student/math+cs/helsinki university, http://www.iki.fi/~decoy/front From rsw at MIT.EDU Wed Jul 4 21:04:52 2001 From: rsw at MIT.EDU (Riad S. Wahby) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 00:04:52 -0400 Subject: The Libertarian Approach to Contracts (eg GPS Speed Regulation) In-Reply-To: ; from ravage@ssz.com on Wed, Jul 04, 2001 at 10:33:13PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010705000452.B29281@positron.mit.edu> Jim Choate wrote: > The typical Libertarian approach is to support whatever puts the primary > service provider (Libertarians almost always use producer-consumer > examples, why is that?) in the primary profit making position and the > service consumer in the least protected position. The typical Libertarian > figures that if you can make a buck of the sucker, then any failure or > harm in the contract by the provider is the dumb blind luck of the > consumer. It is the responsibility of the consumer to make sure that the terms of the contract are agreeable prior to entering the contract. That doesn't leave them in an unprotected position, it leaves them in a position of power. If they don't like the contract, they leave. Easy. How could it possibly be any other way? "Oh, wait, I didn't know about that clause in the contract, so my obligation is null and void." That would be a great step forward for contract law, no? -- Riad Wahby rsw at mit.edu MIT VI-2/A 2002 5105 From thisis at awesome.com Wed Jul 4 23:01:04 2001 From: thisis at awesome.com (thisis at awesome.com) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 01:01:04 -0500 (CDT) Subject: No more boredom! 9589 Message-ID: <200107050601.BAA28293@pinemtn.cpinternet.com> Below is the result of your feedback form. It was submitted by (thisis at awesome.com) on Thursday, July 5, 2001 at 01:01:03 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- : Looking for new people to talk to? Find someone to share your interests with online or in person. Better yet find your soul mate! Stop being bored online. Click Here!!




1228 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From yesyesyes at aol.com Thu Jul 5 01:01:39 2001 From: yesyesyes at aol.com (yesyesyes at aol.com) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 01:01:39 Subject: YOURAWINNER Message-ID: <293.650974.817562@aol.com> 2 SEE THE BEST CUM SLURPING,BLOW SHOTS ON THE NET CHECK OUT THESE YOUNG LITTLE HONEY'S SMEARING THEMSELVES IN JISM http://www.geocities.com/xxxcumshooters CUM,CUM AND MORE CUM. THESE LITTLE WHORES ARE HERE TO EAT EVERY DROP OF YOUR LOAD AND MORE!!!!!!!!!! http://www.geocities.com/xxxcumshooters ****************************************************************** ALL MEMBERSHIPS RECIEVE ACCESS TO ALL OF OUR 32 SITES/LIMITED OFFER ------------------------------------------------------------------- FOR THE BEST ANAL FUCK SITE EVER TO BE RELEASED ON THE WEB!!! http://www.geocities.com/analxxxaction FUCK MY ASS UNTIL IT BLEEDS,PLEASE? THEN I'LL LICK THE SHIT OFF YOUR DICK. HOW I LOVE IT IN THE ASS, AGAIN AND AGAIN!!!!!! 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In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Sampo Syreeni > >> But just as Tim argues, the latter >> always involves cost-effectiveness >> too...There should always be a >> sufficient, predictable cost >> associated with putting people >> away to guard against >> criminalization for convenience, >> prudence and political gain only. > >I'm sure that "cost-effectiveness" has a role to play here. I just don't >agree that the cost savings of parole are all that big a factor. The US has >more prisoners per capital than just about anyone (I think the US is >surpassed by Russia and maybe South Africa). So we've already made the >decision that we can afford to lock up a lot of people. The disparity in numbers is largely due to the way we treat the mentally ill. "They" (Russia, and most of europe) don't count the numbers of people forcebly institutionalized for "mental illness" as part of their prisoner counts, and here in the US the government *usually* doesn't forcibly institutionalize someone until after they've committed a crime, or at least been convicted of a crime of some sort, whether it really should be a crime. >Also, the assumption that locking up more people comes at some sort of >linear increase in costs. One of the simplest answers is to just overcrowd >the facilities "we" already have. Simple answers are for simple problems or simple people. This is not a simple problem. >No, I think Tim and Sampo have the cart before the horse. We have the >criminal laws we have because that feeds the government, not because we save >so much with parole. Eliminating parole by overcrowding or by building >still more prisons would increase, not decrease human suffering. I think you're both wrong. We have increasingly more laws because we don't have enough problems for our elected leaders to deal with, and in order to justify their pay checks they feel they need to "Be Doing Something", so they manufacture one crisis after another, propose and half-ass implement some nit-wit solution. The problem is that dimwitted idiots keep re-electing these rotten sonsabitches. >Honestly, would you rather wear a ankle transponder or be Bruno's bitch? CypherPrisonSluts? -- http://www.apa.org/journals/psp/psp7761121.html It is one of the essential features of such incompetence that the person so afflicted is incapable of knowing that he is incompetent. To have such knowledge would already be to remedy a good portion of the offense. From decoy at iki.fi Wed Jul 4 15:29:35 2001 From: decoy at iki.fi (Sampo Syreeni) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 01:29:35 +0300 (EEST) Subject: Forbidden Knowledge (Banned Research, Part II) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Tim May wrote: >There _might_ be a bunch of failed implant attempts, failed attempts to >bring a fertilized egg to term. [...] But no particular "imminent danger" >requiring police action to protect the safety of others. This is of course just a part of a general tendency, the broadening of law to cover risk (e.g. mandatory seatbelts), indirect harm (e.g. the idea of currency transaction taxation to "stabilize" exchange rates), thought crime (e.g. hacking, copyright violation and the diaries-as-child-porn stuff), harm through inaction (e.g. not helping a suffocating person) and "injustice" (e.g. nondiscrimation statutes; my own views are in flux over this one). I.e., people increasingly consider law in terms of consequences, not actions. I can't see how this is a surprise to anyone on the list. >The real issue is about a move toward "permission requirements" for >research. And also the fact that people increasingly view such licencing as part of the government's legitimate sphere of influence, or even its responsibility. Somewhere along the line ordinary people seem to have lost the idea that by default everything is allowed, and have come to think that before one can do something, the state can, and so has to, guarantee that there are no unfortunate consequences (e.g. FDA requirements on new pharmaceuticals). Hence, regulation based on possibilities instead of outcomes. >The real issue, as readers of my stuff will know, is the creation and >support of guilds: licensing is a rent-seeking mechanism. One might extend that to people with at least some familiarity with libertarian theory. >How long before it carries over to other areas in biology? I think something similar to this is already happening, only indirectly through patents on basic bioresearch tools. It isn't legislation, but the centralization sure makes state control a helluva lot easier, plus gives tonnes of legitimate sounding excuses for the King's men to go over your possessions. >Why not restrict computer virus research? Hasn't it been, already? If I'm not mistaken, people already go to prison for writing viruses. Ditto for hacking tools, TPM circumvention software, and soon probably spamming tools as well. >Or nanotech research? We'll have to wait for that until the critters do something useful, or the general public believes that is an imminent "threat". >-- the "ban on bomb-making instructions" proposed by the usual suspects is >a variant on this issue. Mm. I've always thought of this sort of thing as more of a spinoff of the conventional censorship discourse. Might be there is a difference, though, as Plain Old Censorship is usually advocated because the material itself is "harmful", while we now operate on the added spin of "stuff that enables you to do Bad Things". That's obviously a bit broader in that it covers just about all functional science/technology, even if the stuff per se does not incite the reader to *do* anything. >-- and as with "precursor chemicals," chemicals which _could_ be made into >methamphetamines or Sarin or other banned items, there will be bans on >"precursor knowledge." The patent argument above ties nicely with this one. >It's the groundwork, the precursor knowledge, that the government is now >cracking down on. A very disturbing trend. I think the Rael crackdown is more a display of common irrationality than the kind of deviousness you attribute to it. "But we need to do *something* about it!" >-- fortunately, these "warning shots" will perhaps accelerate a transition >into cypherspace. Or, if you are right about the precursor knowledge bit, a fresh attack on crypto infrastructure. This time it would probably start by associating crypto with pedophiles -- lately national security seems to have lost its most corrosive appeal. Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy, mailto:decoy at iki.fi, gsm: +358-50-5756111 student/math+cs/helsinki university, http://www.iki.fi/~decoy/front From decoy at iki.fi Wed Jul 4 15:44:35 2001 From: decoy at iki.fi (Sampo Syreeni) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 01:44:35 +0300 (EEST) Subject: Most of a nation on probation? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Sandy Sandfort wrote: >The problem is not that parole exists--be thankful that it does. The >problem is the criminalization of every area of life. But just as Tim argues, the latter always involves cost-effectiveness too. All in all, constitutions should have adequate protections against black letter law and, more generally, "free" criminalization of any conduct. There should always be a sufficient, predictable cost associated with putting people away to guard against criminalization for convenience, prudence and political gain only. Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy, mailto:decoy at iki.fi, gsm: +358-50-5756111 student/math+cs/helsinki university, http://www.iki.fi/~decoy/front From Alex at ecotone.toad.com Thu Jul 5 02:00:35 2001 From: Alex at ecotone.toad.com (Alex Wong) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 02:00:35 Subject: 3Com Volume Discount Message-ID: <200107041745.KAA10082@ecotone.toad.com> Dear Valued Customer, Re: Volume Discount 3C900-Combo refurbished / 1000pcs / usd8.5- 3C16704 4-ports refurbished / 1000pcs / usd25- 3C16592A 12-ports 10/100 brand new / 500pcs / usd150- 3C3594 PCI 56K V.90 Voice brand new / 10000pcs / pls check Best Regards Alex Wong Cleverway From declan at well.com Wed Jul 4 23:16:42 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 02:16:42 -0400 Subject: Slashdot | Using GPS To Catch Speeders Found Illegal In-Reply-To: ; from ravage@ssz.com on Wed, Jul 04, 2001 at 09:42:48PM -0500 References: <20010704221121.A6210@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <20010705021642.A12123@cluebot.com> On Wed, Jul 04, 2001 at 09:42:48PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > If the auto vendor was really concerned about their vehicle they'd install > a govenor (like they did on the '64 1/2 Mustand for example) that would > limit the RPM's of the engine. Quick, easy, simple. A lot(!!!) less > expensive (about $20) and more reliable than a GPS receiver. Then you'd risk spurious lawsuits from someone who can't accelerate to get out of an accident situation, and you'd also lose the source of income you might get from all these speeding tickets you as the renter would levy. > It's the typical bait and switch (typical of capitalist/libertarian goals > that is). This is just insane. -Declan From declan at well.com Wed Jul 4 23:22:09 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 02:22:09 -0400 Subject: The Libertarian Approach to Contracts (eg GPS Speed Regulation) In-Reply-To: <20010705000452.B29281@positron.mit.edu>; from rsw@mit.edu on Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 12:04:52AM -0400 References: <20010705000452.B29281@positron.mit.edu> Message-ID: <20010705022209.B12123@cluebot.com> On Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 12:04:52AM -0400, Riad S. Wahby wrote: > It is the responsibility of the consumer to make sure that the terms > of the contract are agreeable prior to entering the contract. That > doesn't leave them in an unprotected position, it leaves them in a > position of power. If they don't like the contract, they leave. > Easy. The clarity of Riad's message above is a welcome reprive from the Choatian posts elsewhere in this thread. It is true that companies may offer us contracts we don't like. It is true that sometimes consumers will in fact have "little choice" (though in a modern society where starvation is not the norm, they'll always have some choice) when there's only one rental car firm in town, for instance. But if they dislike the policies of that rental car company to the extent they are willing to pay $100 for a cab to the next city, they can vote with their pocketbook. This may be an annoying situation on occasion, but nobody said capitalism was perfect -- just that it's better than statism. -Declan From decoy at iki.fi Wed Jul 4 16:27:38 2001 From: decoy at iki.fi (Sampo Syreeni) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 02:27:38 +0300 (EEST) Subject: Most of a nation on probation? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Sandy Sandfort wrote: >I'm sure that "cost-effectiveness" has a role to play here. I just don't >agree that the cost savings of parole are all that big a factor. The US has >more prisoners per capital than just about anyone (I think the US is >surpassed by Russia and maybe South Africa). So we've already made the >decision that we can afford to lock up a lot of people. Yep, the US does lock a whole lot of people up. But what about the constant whining about "overflowing prisons", then. Or the many instants where prisoners are put on parole en masse to cut costs and/or to free up prison real estate? That sort of thing isn't about a decision to invest a lot into incarceration, but precisely the kind of thing that one day makes everyone a parolee. >Also, the assumption that locking up more people comes at some sort of >linear increase in costs. One of the simplest answers is to just >overcrowd the facilities "we" already have. There would be ways to control this too. One way is to make it possible for inmates to sue for damage due to overcrowding and the violence it causes. This would make for a superlinear increase in cost, and eventual balancing in the density of inmates. >No, I think Tim and Sampo have the cart before the horse. We have the >criminal laws we have because that feeds the government, not because we save >so much with parole. *Of course* parole isn't the initial cause, but it's one of the few enabling factors which allow excess criminalization of harmless conduct to be at least partially quenched. The usual reasons for legislative bloat stop us from pruning the code directly, but a strong strawman can be made for not letting people out of the slammer before their term is up. >Eliminating parole by overcrowding or by building still more prisons would >increase, not decrease human suffering. That's really just the age old question of whether two people suffering half as much each constitutes the same amount of total suffering. From the standpoint of individual freedom, one might argue that more people are now hurting. You would probably say the maximum harm/injustice done is now less. I still think that in the first case the probability of a given person being unjustly imprisoned is doubled, and this is bad. >Honestly, would you rather wear a ankle transponder or be Bruno's bitch? As you already put it, given a chance, neither. But the real point is that transponders shouldn't be an option *and* the cost of putting people away should be high enough to become prohibitive for anything but the most serious of crimes. If this was to come to pass, the question would instead become "would you rather be free with your rights intact than wear a tag?". Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy, mailto:decoy at iki.fi, gsm: +358-50-5756111 student/math+cs/helsinki university, http://www.iki.fi/~decoy/front From decoy at iki.fi Wed Jul 4 17:22:47 2001 From: decoy at iki.fi (Sampo Syreeni) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 03:22:47 +0300 (EEST) Subject: Most of a nation on probation? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Sandy Sandfort wrote: >> Or the many instants where prisoners are put on parole en masse to cut >> costs and/or to free up prison real estate? > >That's really a separate problem having to do with our insane mandatory >sentencing laws (primarily for drug-related offenses). When they do release >folks, they are usually the ones convicted of really vicious crimes. I agree that that too has a part in it, and that mandatory sentencing is a genuinely braindead idea. However, it has a lot more to do with who gets to walk than with somebody having to be let out in the first place. The primary reason is that the society simply isn't willing to invest enough in prisons to carry the load, contrary to what you originally claimed. >> One way is to make it possible for inmates to sue for damage due to >> overcrowding and the violence it causes. [...] > >Well that would be nice, but why not focus in on the real problem, too many >laws? Forget suing, leave parole alone, just get rid of the myriad of laws. That's just the point -- you can't. The political machine simply does not work that way, which is seen by the proportion of new laws passed to old ones stricken. The reasons are well known (one common way to lump the reasons is to call them "political suicide"), and are pretty difficult to get around without resorting to the kind of ass-backwards trickery we've been describing. >> From the standpoint of individual freedom, one might argue that more >> people are now hurting. > >Than what, Utopia? Than anywhere else in the world. Especially note that, even if it clearly doesn't lead to the most effective disincentive on crime, Europeans' fairly humane attitudes towards prison inmates largely serve the purpose Tim and I are after with the cost talk. The mechanism isn't nearly as important as the underlying necessity of imposing a real cost on governments' harmful activities. That is the only way that really works; goodwill simply does not get things done. >That isn't the choice now. It's between getting out or staying in a >hell-hole prison. Not true. The same argument you use, i.e. that habitual restrictions on freedom can be traded for at least /some/ freedom, can be used to argue that you can always sacrifice your freedom in order to stay out of jail in the first place. Just obey the law, however senseless it might be. It's /certainly/ better than being hauled into the hellhole. >Nobody is hurt by parole. I hope that was meant as a joke. >Get rid of the laws and the parole issue goes away by itself. Talk about Utopia... Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy, mailto:decoy at iki.fi, gsm: +358-50-5756111 student/math+cs/helsinki university, http://www.iki.fi/~decoy/front From decoy at iki.fi Wed Jul 4 17:59:45 2001 From: decoy at iki.fi (Sampo Syreeni) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 03:59:45 +0300 (EEST) Subject: Most of a nation on probation? In-Reply-To: <200107050025.f650P8W08778@artifact.psychedelic.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Eric Cordian wrote: >If everyone refused plea bargaining, and refused parole, the number of >people who could be prosecuted and jailed would be a small fraction of >those who are "in the system" today. I think the relative cost of parole vs. completing the sentence is the pertinent question -- the parole system can be a wonderful thing, as Sandy says, but the government should never be able to reduce costs by using it. There should be paroles, but their cost should somehow be forced to the same level as serving the time behind bars. After that the only reason to let someone out would be the balance between the prospect of rehabilitation vs. risk taken. 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So Do Not try to change anything other than what is instructed. Because if you do, it will not work for you. Remember, honesty reaps the reward!!! 1.... After you have ordered all 5 reports, take this advertisement and REMOVE the name & address of the person in REPORT # 5. This person has made it through the cycle and is no doubt counting their fortune. 2.... Move the name & address in REPORT # 4 down TO REPORT # 5. 3.... Move the name & address in REPORT # 3 down TO REPORT # 4. 4.... Move the name & address in REPORT # 2 down TO REPORT # 3. 5.... Move the name & address in REPORT # 1 down TO REPORT # 2 6.... Insert YOUR name & address in the REPORT # 1 Position. PLEASE MAKE SURE you copy every name & address ACCURATELY! ========================================================== **** Take this entire letter, with the modified list of names, and save it on your computer. DO NOT MAKE ANY OTHER CHANGES. Save this on a disk as well just in case if you loose any data. To assist you with marketing your business on the Internet, the 5 reports you purchase will provide you with invaluable marketing information which includes how to send bulk e-mails legally, where to find thousands of free classified ads and much more. There are 2 Primary methods to get this venture going: METHOD # 1: BY SENDING BULK E-MAIL LEGALLY ========================================================== Let's say that you decide to start small, just to see how it goes, and we will assume You and those involved send out only 5,000 e-mails each. Let's also assume that the mailing receive only a 0.2% response (the response could be much better but lets just say it is only 0.2%. Also many people will send out hundreds of thousands e-mails instead of only 5,000 each). Continuing with this example, you send out only 5,000 e-mails. With a 0.2% response, that is only 10 orders for report # 1. Those 10 people responded by sending out 5,000 e-mail each for a total of 50,000. Out of those 50,000 e-mails only 0.2% responded with orders. That's=100 people responded and ordered Report # 2. Those 100 people mail out 5,000 e-mails each for a total of 500,000 e-mails. The 0.2% response to that is 1000 orders for Report # 3. Those 1000 people send out 5,000 e-mails each for a total of 5 million e-mails sent out. The 0.2% response to that is 10,000 orders for Report # 4. Those 10,000 people send out 5,000 e-mails each for a total of 50,000,000 (50 million) e-mails. The 0.2% response to that is 100,000 orders for Report # 5 THAT'S 100,000 ORDERS TIMES $5 EACH=$500,000.00 (half million). Your total income in this example is: 1..... $50 + 2..... $500 + 3..... $5,000 + 4 . $50,000 + 5..... $500,000 ........ Grand Total=$555,550.00 NUMBERS DO NOT LIE. GET A PENCIL & PAPER AND FIGURE OUT THE WORST POSSIBLE RESPONSES AND NO MATTER HOW YOU CALCULATE IT, YOU WILL STILL MAKE A LOT OF MONEY ! ========================================================= REMEMBER FRIEND, THIS IS ASSUMING ONLY 10 PEOPLE ORDERING OUT OF 5,000 YOU MAILED TO. Dare to think for a moment what would happen if everyone or half or even one 4th of those people mailed 100,000e-mails each or more? There are over 150 million people on the Internet worldwide and counting. Believe me, many people will do just that, and more! METHOD # 2 : BY PLACING FREE ADS ON THE INTERNET ======================================================= Advertising on the net is very inexpensive and there are hundreds of FREE places to advertise. Placing a lot of free ads on the Internet will easily get a larger response. We strongly suggest you start with Method # 1 and add METHOD # 2 as you go along. For every $5 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them the Report they ordered. That's it. Always provide same day service on all orders. This will guarantee that the e-mail they send out, with your name and address on it, will be prompt because they can not advertise until they receive the report. =========== AVAILABLE REPORTS ==================== ORDER EACH REPORT BY ITS NUMBER & NAME ONLY. Notes: Always send $5 cash (U.S. CURRENCY) for each Report. Checks NOT accepted. Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least 2 sheets of paper. On one of those sheets of paper, Write the NUMBER & the NAME of the Report you are ordering, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS and your name and postal address. PLACE YOUR ORDER FOR THESE REPORTS NOW : ==================================================== REPORT # 1: "The Insider's Guide to Advertising for Free on the Net" Order Report #1 from: Willie Farmer 2501 Horne Dr. Charlotte, NC 28206 USA ___________________________________________________________ REPORT # 2: "The Insider's Guide to Sending Bulk e-mail on the Net" Order Report # 2 from: Monty Porter PO Box 1104 American Fork, Utah 84003 USA ___________________________________________________________ REPORT # 3: "Secret to Multilevel Marketing on the Net" Order Report # 3 from: Melvin Manigault 104 Miller Ave. Lindenwold, N. J. 08021 USA ____________________________________________________________ REPORT # 4: "How to Become a Millionaire Utilizing MLM & the Net" Order Report # 4 from: Aaron Joseph P.O Box 21155 Columbia Heights, MN 55421 USA ____________________________________________________________ REPORT #5: "How to Send Out 0ne Million e-mails for Free" Order Report # 5 from: Randall Williams 401 Stocks Dairy Road Leesburg, Georgia 31763 USA ____________________________________________________________ $$$$$$$$$ YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINES $$$$$$$$$$$ Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success: === If you do not receive at least 10 orders for Report #1 within 2 weeks, continue sending e-mails until you do. === After you have received 10 orders, 2 to 3 weeks after that you should receive 100 orders or more for REPORT # 2. If you did not, continue advertising or sending e-mails until you do. === Once you have received 100 or more orders for Report # 2, YOU CAN RELAX, because the system is already working for you, and the cash will continue to roll in ! THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER: Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed in front of a Different report. You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching which report people are ordering from you. IF YOU WANT TO GENERATE MORE INCOME SEND ANOTHER BATCH OF E-MAILS AND START THE WHOLE PROCESS AGAIN. There is NO LIMIT to the income you can generate from this business !!! ====================================================== FOLLOWING IS A NOTE FROM THE ORIGINATOR OF THIS PROGRAM: You have just received information that can give you financial freedom for the rest of your life, with NO RISK and JUST A LITTLE BIT OF EFFORT. You can make more money in the next few weeks and months than you have ever imagined. Follow the program EXACTLY AS INSTRUCTED. Do Not change it in any way. It works exceedingly well as it is now. Remember to e-mail a copy of this exciting report after you have put your name and address in Report #1 and moved others to #2 ...........# 5 as instructed above. One of the people you send this to may send out 100,000 or more e-mails and your name will be on every one of them. Remember though, the more you send out the more potential customers you will reach. So my friend, I have given you the ideas, information, materials and opportunity to become financially independent. IT IS UP TO YOU NOW ! ============ MORE TESTIMONIALS ================ "My name is Mitchell. My wife, Jody and I live in Chicago. I am an accountant with a major U.S. Corporation and I make pretty good money. When I received this program I grumbled to Jody about receiving ''junk mail''. I made fun of the whole thing, spouting my knowledge of the population and percentages involved. I ''knew'' it wouldn't work. Jody totally ignored my supposed intelligence and few days later she jumped in with both feet. I made merciless fun of her, and was ready to lay the old ''I told you so'' on her when the thing didn't work. Well, the laugh was on me! Within 3 weeks she had received 50 responses. Within the next 45 days she had received total $ 147,200.00 ........... all cash! I was shocked. I have joined Jody in her ''hobby''. Mitchell Wolf M.D., Chicago, Illinois ====================================================== ''Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make up my mind to participate in this plan. But conservative that I am, I decided that the initial investment was so little that there was just no way that I wouldn't get enough orders to at least get my money back''. '' I was surprised when I found my medium size post office box crammed with orders. I made $319,210.00 in the first 12 weeks. The nice thing about this deal is that it does not matter where people live. There simply isn't a better investment with a faster return and so big." Dan Sondstrom, Alberta, Canada ======================================================= ''I had received this program before. I deleted it, but later I wondered if I should have given it a try. Of course, I had no idea who to contact to get another copy, so I had to wait until I was e-mailed again by someone else.........11 months passed then it luckily came again...... I did not delete this one! I made more than $490,000 on my first try and all the money came within 22 weeks." Susan De Suza, New York, N.Y. ======================================================= ''It really is a great opportunity to make relatively easy money with little cost to you. I followed the simple instructions carefully and within 10 days the money started to come in. My first month I made $20,560.00 and by the end of third month my total cash count was $362,840.00. Life is beautiful, Thanx to Internet.". Fred Dellaca, Westport, New Zealand ======================================================= ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET STARTED ON 'YOUR' ROAD TO FINANCIAL FREEDOM ! ======================================================= If you have any questions of the legality of this program, contact the Office of Associate Director for Marketing Practices, Federal Trade Commission, Bureau of Consumer Protection, Washington, D.C. ***************************************************************** This message is sent in compliance of the new email bill section 301. Per Section 301, Paragraph (a)(2)(C) of S. 1618, further transmissions to you by the sender of this email may be stopped at no cost to you. To be removed from our e-mail list please reply to request_off_list at bigmailbox.net with the word remove in the subject line. Thank you. List Management Services ***************************************************************** ********************************* From wjfarmer1 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 5 04:33:23 2001 From: wjfarmer1 at yahoo.com (wjfarmer1 at yahoo.com) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 04:33:23 Subject: High-Quality Gifts At Bargain Low Prices!!! Message-ID: <391.613142.477948@Server 02> Dear Preferred Customer, For great bargains on Gifts,Novelties,Garden Decor and Home Decor items etc.. check out samnwjfvm.giftworldnet.com This message is sent in compliance of the new email bill section 301. Per section 301. Paragraph (a) (2) (c) of S. 1618, further transmissions to you by the sender of the email may be stopped at no cost to you. To be removed from our email list, please reply to SamandWJF at excite.com with the word remove in the subject line. From registration at ifilm.com Thu Jul 5 04:57:01 2001 From: registration at ifilm.com (registration at ifilm.com) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 04:57:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: IFILM Lost Password Message-ID: <200107051157.EAA71501@ns1.ifilm.com> Dear cypunks, We have created a new password to protect your IFILM account. Your username and password are currently recorded as follows: USERNAME: cypunks PASSWORD: 2TnVMq When you log back in, you will be prompted to personalize your password. If you have questions, or are experiencing any problems, please read our help section at http://www.ifilm.com/db/static_text/0,1699,14440,00.html. IFILM: The Internet Movie Guide http://www.ifilm.com ------------------------------------ IFILM has a strict anti-spamming policy. You are receiving this because you or someone registered on our site with this email address. If this is not correct and you wish to unsubscribe, please click here: http://www.ifilm.com/ifilm/unsubsribe. We sincerely apologize for any errors and will make every effort to correct them immediately. From honig at sprynet.com Thu Jul 5 05:39:34 2001 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 05:39:34 -0700 Subject: Most of a nation on probation? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010705053934.008e5640@pop.sprynet.com> At 05:55 PM 7/4/01 -0700, Sandy Sandfort wrote: Remember, >the US repealed an anti-drug constitutional amendment. If they can go >through all the sturm und drang required to repeal an amendment, I don't see >why mere statutes can't be undone. > That was a different US. *That* US had to pass a constitutional amendment to control *that* drug in the first place. Different country. They actually respected the constitution then. From honig at sprynet.com Thu Jul 5 05:43:32 2001 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 05:43:32 -0700 Subject: Tampa using cameras to scan for wanted faces-- In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.1.20010704225303.00b109b0@mail.intplsrv.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010705054332.0080a7e0@pop.sprynet.com> At 10:53 PM 7/4/01 -0500, Sean Roach wrote: >Can the program be thrown off with masks? If so, how about making some of >those advertisement fans with the pictures of random people wanted for >parking tickets on them, then walk through that end of town. Parking tickets? Go to the local cop/FBI site, download the *Wanted* pix, fab a mask, have fun. From measl at mfn.org Thu Jul 5 05:38:01 2001 From: measl at mfn.org (measl at mfn.org) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 07:38:01 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Most of a nation on probation? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, petro pulled this right out of his ass... > The disparity in numbers is largely due to the way we treat > the mentally ill. "They" (Russia, and most of europe) don't count the > numbers of people forcebly institutionalized for "mental illness" as > part of their prisoner counts, and here in the US the government > *usually* doesn't forcibly institutionalize someone until after > they've committed a crime, or at least been convicted of a crime of > some sort, whether it really should be a crime. Total, unequivocal bullshit. You have anything to back up these absurd statements? (1) "Forcibly institutionalized" patients are *NOT* [legally] "prisoners", and therefore are not included in prisoner counts. Obviously, this statement excludes those persons committed to institutions by a court as "unfit to stand trial" - a microscopic percentage of the "patient" population in the U.S. (2) The "2-P.C." [2 Psychiatrist Committal] laws do NOT apply to someone *after* they have committed a crime. After they commit a crime, they are under the jurisdiction of a *court*, and they are no longer patients (and only _patients_ get 2-P.C.'d). (3) The 2.P.C. laws are in EVERY state specifically allow for, and in fact, REQUIRE, that a person be involuntarily committed if "they present an immenent danger to themselves or others". This is clearly not the same as "have committed a crime". First you claim that "nobody has ever survived a shot to the head with a .32", and now *this* -- Where do you get this shit from??? -- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin at mfn.org If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... -------------------------------------------------------------------- From bear at sonic.net Thu Jul 5 08:23:02 2001 From: bear at sonic.net (Ray Dillinger) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 08:23:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Forbidden Knowledge (Banned Research, Part II) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, Sampo Syreeni wrote: Tim May writes: >>Why not restrict computer virus research? > >Hasn't it been, already? If I'm not mistaken, people already go to prison >for writing viruses. Ditto for hacking tools, TPM circumvention software, >and soon probably spamming tools as well. Not quite yet. People have gone to prison for *releasing* viruses, not for *writing* them. Heck, I've written a dozen viruses myself, and not one has ever been run on a machine I didn't reformat within the week. An amusing pastime - not a crime. Bear From tcmay at got.net Thu Jul 5 08:36:57 2001 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 08:36:57 -0700 Subject: Speed governors on rental cars In-Reply-To: <20010705021642.A12123@cluebot.com> References: <20010704221121.A6210@cluebot.com> <20010705021642.A12123@cluebot.com> Message-ID: At 2:16 AM -0400 7/5/01, Declan McCullagh wrote: >On Wed, Jul 04, 2001 at 09:42:48PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: >> If the auto vendor was really concerned about their vehicle they'd install >> a govenor (like they did on the '64 1/2 Mustand for example) that would >> limit the RPM's of the engine. Quick, easy, simple. A lot(!!!) less >> expensive (about $20) and more reliable than a GPS receiver. > >Then you'd risk spurious lawsuits from someone who can't accelerate >to get out of an accident situation, and you'd also lose the source of >income you might get from all these speeding tickets you as the >renter would levy. It apparently already happens, the installation of governors on rental cars. I rented a car at the Baltimore-Washington airport last summer and merrily got on the freeway (er, "parkway") connecting it with the Beltway. It was late at night, traffic was light, so I stepped on the gas. It just ran out of speed at about 65. Couldn't get it to go any faster, even with the pedal to the floor. Now it _could_ be that it was just a late American model, heavily-pollution-control-entangled econobox, but I've driven el cheapo Korean and Japanese models which had no problem reaching high speeds on straightaways. I figured at the time that the rental cars had indeed been equipped with RPM governors. I was only mildly annoyed and I didn't feel my safety was threatened, pace the above point about accelerating. Most traffic acceleration risks are at lower speeds, so a top-end speed governor isn't likely to pose a safety risk. --Tim May -- Timothy C. May tcmay at got.net Corralitos, California Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns From tcmay at got.net Thu Jul 5 08:47:38 2001 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 08:47:38 -0700 Subject: Tampa using cameras to scan for wanted faces-- In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 3:09 PM +0200 7/5/01, Eugene Leitl wrote: >On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, David Honig wrote: > >> Parking tickets? Go to the local cop/FBI site, download the >> *Wanted* pix, fab a mask, have fun. > >Hmm. It might work for the current generation of cams, but not for stuff >which actually measures the face topography. And, of course, you can't >hide the other biometrics. It seems, even plastic surgery has its limits. The archives, or a search engine, will turn up many past discussions we've had of face recognition and biometrics. One of the interesting things is that _ear shape_ is one of the best correlation features. Of course, to measure ear shape the camera has to have a good view, unobscured and at close enough range to get a decent number of pixels. (This makes sense, that ear shape would be a good metric. I've been noticing the variations in ear shapes since I heard about this scheme. Also, I can imagine the various conformal transformations--different angles of view, for example--preserve certain relationships well.) I can believe some kind of automated face recognition is being done with points of entry, such as international airport arrival points, but I find it hard to swallow that "crowd shots" from overhead cameras can do anything meaningful. The Tampa action may be mostly social engineering: "We're watching you!" --Tim May -- Timothy C. May tcmay at got.net Corralitos, California Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns From cupid at adultfriendfinder.com Thu Jul 5 09:33:08 2001 From: cupid at adultfriendfinder.com (cupid at adultfriendfinder.com) Date: 5 Jul 2001 09:33:08 -0700 Subject: Adult Friend Finder Cupid Report for oddodoodo Message-ID: <20010705163308.18534.qmail@e114.friendfinder.com> Dear oddodoodo, The following are some of the recent members that match your Cupid search on the Adult Friend Finder web site located at http://adultfriendfinder.com Match #1 HANDLE: groupsrus6969 TITLE: "hello" PROFILE: http://adultfriendfinder.com/cupid/11474114_73653 LOCATION: canon city, Colorado, United States GENDER: AGE: 23 --------------------------- Match #2 HANDLE: aadu TITLE: "a dream man (definetly check it out)" PROFILE: http://adultfriendfinder.com/cupid/11472741_35220 LOCATION: Tallinn, Harju maakond, Estonia GENDER: AGE: 24 --------------------------- You have a total of 2 new matches on Adult Friend Finder! 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To remove yourself from the mailing list, please log into Adultfriendfinder.com with your handle and password. *************************************************************** From lizard at mrlizard.com Thu Jul 5 09:41:45 2001 From: lizard at mrlizard.com (lizard) Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 09:41:45 -0700 Subject: Ohio man convicted for "obscene" stories in his privatejournal References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010705112216.021106b0@mail.well.com> Message-ID: <3B4498C9.2640C9B0@mrlizard.com> Marc Rotenberg wrote: > > If the First Amendment means anything, it means that a State > has no business telling a man, sitting alone in his own house, > what books he may read or what films he may watch. Our whole > constitutional heritage rebels at the thought of giving > government the power to control men's minds. > > Stanley v. Georgia, 394 US 557, 566 (1969) (Marshall, J.) "Yeah, but that doesn't apply to perverts!":Any censor, any time, any place. From alqaeda at hq.org Thu Jul 5 09:48:10 2001 From: alqaeda at hq.org (Alfred Qaeda) Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 09:48:10 -0700 Subject: Denver to use facial biometrics on drivers' licenses Message-ID: <3B449A4A.9F939DF7@hq.org> Colo. to 'map' faces of drivers http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1002,11%257E57823,00.html By Julia C. Martinez Denver Post Capitol Bureau Wednesday, July 04, 2001 - First it was the photo-radar vans snapping pictures of Denver-area speeders. Now, some fear Big Brother's roving eye soon will be watching all of Colorado with the arrival of a new European import called "face recognition." The Department of Motor Vehicles, in an effort to prevent identity theft and driver's license fraud, is buying cameras that will map every driver's facial characteristics like a three-dimensional land chart. The danger, critics say, is that the technology could eventually be expanded to monitor the comings and goings of ordinary Coloradans. This week, Tampa, Fla., became the first city in the United States to install similar high-tech security cameras on public streets to scan crowds in the city's nightlife district. Images will be compared against a database of mug shots of people with active warrants. "There is a danger," said Rep. Matt Smith, a Grand Junction lawmaker and attorney who serves on a statewide task force studying the issue of privacy. "The intended purpose of facial recognition is to help the state prevent the theft of identity. Now the question is, "What will its future use be?' "There has to be a point where the government doesn't have its nose over every shoulder," he said. Mug shots compared Old driver's license photos will be scanned into a computer database using the new technology. Then, starting next July, new mugs will be compared with those on file to make sure people are who they say they are when they go to get, or renew, a Colorado driver's license. It doesn't matter if you gain 200 pounds and go bald between photographs. Short of plastic surgery, the camera will recognize you. "Facial recognition deals with spatial details, where a nose is compared with the eyes," said Dorothy Dalquist, spokeswoman for the Colorado Department of Revenue. "Baldness doesn't count, and weight doesn't either. It's the basic facial structure." The state legislature authorized the technology during the last session. State officials won't disclose the cost of the system until they meet later this month with officials from Polaroid, one of the companies involved in making the system. In the beginning, face recognition will be used to try to prevent criminals from obtaining multiple driver licenses under others' names, Dalquist said. "We know of cases where individuals steal personal information from other people, forge documents and go to six or seven driver license offices getting licenses with their pictures and other people's identities. In theory, they have a legitimate license, but in actuality, they're not who they say they are," Dalquist said. "Now, we will be able to say after the first one, "No, you can't have another one.'" Or the police could be called in. "My guess is if we saw something that is an egregious misuse of the system, we might alert law enforcement to that," she said. The cameras can't prevent the types of fraud that now occur when people make their own driver's licenses using home computers and the Internet. However, as part of the new program, invisible markers will be added to each new license so stores or banks can scan the card to see if it's genuine. Privacy concerns The technology has raised concerns about privacy, ethics and government intrusion. Privacy advocates are concerned that a database of photographs could itself spill into the Orwellian realm. "We all want to catch as many criminals as we possibly can, but we also have to be concerned about the privacy issues," said Sen. Ken Gordon, D-Denver, a member of a state task force set up to craft legislation aimed at protecting privacy. "Information obtained for one purpose is sometimes used for reasons that were not contemplated by people who set up the system to begin with." Gordon said Colorado already sells driver records to insurance companies for $5 million a year. "If we're going to create a database of photographs of every driver in Colorado, will it be used only to protect against criminals?" Gordon asked. "Or will it be used for commercial purposes or marketing or to produce books of people's photos. We have to be careful." Colorado's new system could pave the way for expanded use, say for instance tapping into a criminal database and finding out if someone getting a driver license is a fugitive. "I'm sure law enforcement would appreciate it sometime in the future," Dalquist said. "Right now, we're not hooking into their data process. We're trying to protect citizens against identity fraud, and businesses, too." But some say this latest technology could continue to grow into a Tampa-like monitoring system. Last month, Denver police used low-tech, hand-held video cameras to catch rowdy partygoers celebrating the Colorado Avalanche's Stanley Cup victory. "We haven't discussed it," said Denver police Sgt. Tony Lombard, "not at this point." From ptrei at rsasecurity.com Thu Jul 5 07:18:22 2001 From: ptrei at rsasecurity.com (Trei, Peter) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 10:18:22 -0400 Subject: [Pigdog] Freenet v. Bunkernet (Was: [EWAR] Top firms retreat intobunker toward off anarchists (fwd) Message-ID: > Eugene Leitl[SMTP:Eugene.Leitl at lrz.uni-muenchen.de] [...] > Some of Britain's biggest companies are running their internet > operations > on systems installed in a 300ft-deep nuclear blast-proof bunker to protect > customers from violent anti-capitalist campaigners. [much snippage] I met some of these guys at the RSA conference, and suggested that they set up live webcams on all their enterances, so colo customers could respond to an illegal raid in progress. I wonder if they did it - their site [www.thebunker.com] appears unavailable at the moment. Peter From ptrei at rsasecurity.com Thu Jul 5 07:18:22 2001 From: ptrei at rsasecurity.com (Trei, Peter) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 10:18:22 -0400 Subject: [Pigdog] Freenet v. Bunkernet (Was: [EWAR] Top firms retreat intobunker toward off anarchists (fwd) Message-ID: > Eugene Leitl[SMTP:Eugene.Leitl at lrz.uni-muenchen.de] [...] > Some of Britain's biggest companies are running their internet > operations > on systems installed in a 300ft-deep nuclear blast-proof bunker to protect > customers from violent anti-capitalist campaigners. [much snippage] I met some of these guys at the RSA conference, and suggested that they set up live webcams on all their enterances, so colo customers could respond to an illegal raid in progress. I wonder if they did it - their site [www.thebunker.com] appears unavailable at the moment. Peter From newsletter at stocks.com Thu Jul 5 07:19:10 2001 From: newsletter at stocks.com (newsletter at stocks.com) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 10:19:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Stocks.com Newsletter Message-ID: <20010705141910.C7426214202@server1.rockriverstar.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3705 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ravage at ssz.com Thu Jul 5 08:24:57 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 10:24:57 -0500 Subject: The Times - American clinic selects babies sex Message-ID: <3B4486C9.922CD752@ssz.com> http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,2-2001230966,00.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From sandfort at mindspring.com Thu Jul 5 10:30:58 2001 From: sandfort at mindspring.com (Sandy Sandfort) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 10:30:58 -0700 Subject: Meatspace anonymity manual In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Passed on to us from Anonymous Coredump: > THE BLACK "BLOC" The whole idea of a > Black Bloc is that people wear all > black, and stay in a tight formation. Okay, so the Black Bloc "anarchists" have a uniform and march in lock-step formation. Hmm. Where do I get my "official" anarchist membership card? Oh, I know, I get it from the anarchists' leader. S a n d y From bear at sonic.net Thu Jul 5 10:31:34 2001 From: bear at sonic.net (Ray Dillinger) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 10:31:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Meatspace anonymity manual In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, Anonymous Coredump wrote: >purpose of a Black Bloc is to provide anonymity for it's members. You >are not doing yourself or your comrades any service by dressing in a >distinct way. Individuality is great and all, but sometimes it's okay to >ditch it for a few hours in order to avoid jail time. It amuses me to see "anarchists" abandoning individuality. Bear From declan at well.com Thu Jul 5 07:32:27 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 10:32:27 -0400 Subject: Most of a nation on probation? In-Reply-To: ; from petro@bounty.org on Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 01:18:51AM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20010705103227.A25690@cluebot.com> On Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 01:18:51AM -0700, petro wrote: > CypherPrisonSluts? Speaking of which, this is happening today: PRESS RELEASES The Bureau of Justice Statistics will issue a release (embargoed until Sunday) regarding HIV infection among prison inmates. (Miller) -Declan From ptrei at rsasecurity.com Thu Jul 5 07:40:18 2001 From: ptrei at rsasecurity.com (Trei, Peter) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 10:40:18 -0400 Subject: Kyllo: Taking the 5th on the 4th Message-ID: > From: Jim Choate[SMTP:ravage at ssz.com] > > > On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Tim May wrote: > > > The whole issue of "going masked" is a murky one, legally. > > No, it isn't. While police certainly need 'probably cause' to institute a > search there are NO (zero, nadah, nil, nul, none) requirements on citizens > to wear any particular part or type of clothing (or not wear it even). Any > such law would violate the 1st. > > James Choate > ---------------- Of course, Choate fails to check facts.... -------------------------------- City of Cincinnati section 910-17. "Wearing of masks or hoods" no person shall appear on any public way, public property or any place open to view by the general public wearing a mask, hood, regalia, paraphernalia or other device which partially or completely covers the face with purpose to conceal the identity of the wearer. The provisions of this section shall not apply to: (1) a person wearing a traditional holiday costume on the occasion of the holiday; (2) a person lawfully engaged in trade or employment or in a sporting activity where a mask is worn for the purpose of ensuring the physical safety of the wearer, or because of the nature of the occupation, trade, or profession or sporting activity. (3) A person using a mask in a theatrical production or at masquerade balls or for other entertainment purposes; (4) a person wearing a gas or medical mask as prescribed for emergencies or by current medical regulations. Whoever violates this section is guilty of wearing a mask or hood in public, a misdemeanor of the fourth degree. ------------------------ Whether or not Jim thinks this is constitutional (and I and many others would agree that it is not), it is the law of the land and a requirement, at least in Cinicinnati. Peter Trei From ptrei at rsasecurity.com Thu Jul 5 07:40:18 2001 From: ptrei at rsasecurity.com (Trei, Peter) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 10:40:18 -0400 Subject: Kyllo: Taking the 5th on the 4th Message-ID: > From: Jim Choate[SMTP:ravage at ssz.com] > > > On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Tim May wrote: > > > The whole issue of "going masked" is a murky one, legally. > > No, it isn't. While police certainly need 'probably cause' to institute a > search there are NO (zero, nadah, nil, nul, none) requirements on citizens > to wear any particular part or type of clothing (or not wear it even). Any > such law would violate the 1st. > > James Choate > ---------------- Of course, Choate fails to check facts.... -------------------------------- City of Cincinnati section 910-17. "Wearing of masks or hoods" no person shall appear on any public way, public property or any place open to view by the general public wearing a mask, hood, regalia, paraphernalia or other device which partially or completely covers the face with purpose to conceal the identity of the wearer. The provisions of this section shall not apply to: (1) a person wearing a traditional holiday costume on the occasion of the holiday; (2) a person lawfully engaged in trade or employment or in a sporting activity where a mask is worn for the purpose of ensuring the physical safety of the wearer, or because of the nature of the occupation, trade, or profession or sporting activity. 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From alqaeda at hq.org Thu Jul 5 10:50:37 2001 From: alqaeda at hq.org (Alfred Qaeda) Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 10:50:37 -0700 Subject: Meatspace anonymity manual Message-ID: <3B44A8ED.B60CFDCA@hq.org> > but in order for a Black Bloc to truly > be effective, then that means that we should dress appropriately. Do Anarchists observe casual Fridays? From jamesd at echeque.com Thu Jul 5 11:10:03 2001 From: jamesd at echeque.com (jamesd at echeque.com) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 11:10:03 -0700 Subject: Most of a nation on probation? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3B444B0B.12812.84620F@localhost> -- On 4 Jul 2001, at 16:49, Sandy Sandfort wrote: > Eliminating parole > should be the LAST thing done to reform the system. Anything else merely > compounds the evil. Anyone who can be safely paroled, should probably not have been convicted. Parole is cheap way of punishing decent people. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG eeF6bWdGi6Nlilw20hDTBV02B16d1ESzbPeXnQJn 4UXpXu/jnduCgpY098KSl2dx7IXoLpBcMta+VJ/xz From jamesd at echeque.com Thu Jul 5 11:10:03 2001 From: jamesd at echeque.com (jamesd at echeque.com) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 11:10:03 -0700 Subject: Most of a nation on probation? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3B444B0B.2443.846223@localhost> -- On 4 Jul 2001, at 16:09, Sandy Sandfort wrote: > I'm sure that "cost-effectiveness" has a role to play here. I just don't > agree that the cost savings of parole are all that big a factor. The US has > more prisoners per capital than just about anyone I am inclined to doubt this much touted statistic -- for example china is estimated to have executed a thousand people last month, not withstanding the fact that it is routinely claimed that the US leads the world in executions. There are more executions reported in a day in China than in a year in the US, and most go unreported. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG neI92PXMeEo+ptXtc+YRJz9i0lF53Zg8kfnOHDu/ 4uBqot95kQAC2bLElfCbSoo0OKuQMBfzYKirulFIW From declan at well.com Thu Jul 5 08:22:46 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 11:22:46 -0400 Subject: Ohio man convicted for "obscene" stories in his private journal Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010705112216.021106b0@mail.well.com> [A followup to a cpunx thread, and a link to the statute.] >Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 11:15:01 -0400 >To: politech at politechbot.com >From: Declan McCullagh >Subject: Ohio man convicted for "obscene" stories in his private journal >Cc: tdoulin at dispatch.com > >This is an unusual case. The Ohio law -- a 1970s version of which Politech >member Bruce Taylor successfully defended before a federal appeals court >-- applies not only to dirty pictures, but also to written material: > >http://www.moralityinmedia.org/obsclawlinks.htm#oh >"No person, with knowledge of the character of the material or performance >involved, shall do any of the following... Create, reproduce, or publish >any obscene material that has a minor as one of its participants or >portrayed observers... Buy, procure, possess, or control any obscene >material, that has a minor as one of its participants..." > >Anyone who possesses such a visual or written description -- including a >diary entry or an erotic story -- is guilty of a felony. That means >Ohioans who have on their hard drive an "obscene" text file from >alt.sex.stories are felons. > >Other coverage: >http://www.nydailynews.com/2001-07-05/News_and_Views/Beyond_the_City/a-117267.asp >http://enquirer.com/editions/2001/07/05/loc_tristate_a_m_report.html > >-Declan > >********* > >From: "Robert V. Zwink" >To: >Subject: Man's journal ruled obscene >Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 10:24:08 -0400 >Message-ID: >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >X-Priority: 3 (Normal) >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > >This is possibly one for your list. A 22-year old wrote extensively about >his pedophile delusions in a daily personal journal. Law enforcement found >the journal, today he was sentenced to 10 years in prison. Seems he should >be in an addiction clinic not a prison. The journal was never published. > >- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > From The Columbus Dispatch >http://www.dispatch.com/news/news01/july01/755632.html > >Man's journal ruled obscene > >Wednesday, July 4, 2001 > >Tim Doulin >Dispatch Staff Reporter > >Brian Dalton wrote fictitious tales of sexually abusing and torturing >children in his private journal, intending that no one else see them, he >said. > >But when his probation officer found the journal during a routine search of >Dalton's Columbus home, prosecutors charged him with pandering obscenity >involving a minor. > >In Franklin County Common Pleas Court yesterday, the 22-year-old man's >written words cost him 10 years in prison. > >The case worries civil-rights lawyer Benson Wolman, who said it has >free-speech implications. > >"What you're saying is somebody can't, in essence, confess their fantasy >into a personal journal for fear they have socially unacceptable fantasies, >then ultimately they end up getting prosecuted,'' said Wolman, former >director of the American Civil Liberties Union in Ohio. > >"This is the only case that I know of where we are talking about a >journal -- just written words. It surprises and offends me that an action >should be brought based on a journal.'' > >But Franklin County Prosecutor Ron O'Brien called the case a "breakthrough'' >in the battle against child pornography. > >[...] > >"This is one of the first felony cases in Franklin County that involves the >written word -- a writing somebody created on their own,'' he said. > >"Even without passing it on to anyone else, he committed a felony.'' > >[...] From rotenberg at epic.org Thu Jul 5 08:34:54 2001 From: rotenberg at epic.org (Marc Rotenberg) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 11:34:54 -0400 Subject: Ohio man convicted for "obscene" stories in his private journal In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010705112216.021106b0@mail.well.com> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010705112216.021106b0@mail.well.com> Message-ID: If the First Amendment means anything, it means that a State has no business telling a man, sitting alone in his own house, what books he may read or what films he may watch. Our whole constitutional heritage rebels at the thought of giving government the power to control men's minds. Stanley v. Georgia, 394 US 557, 566 (1969) (Marshall, J.) At 11:22 AM -0400 7/5/01, Declan McCullagh wrote: >[A followup to a cpunx thread, and a link to the statute.] > >>Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 11:15:01 -0400 >>To: politech at politechbot.com >>From: Declan McCullagh >>Subject: Ohio man convicted for "obscene" stories in his private journal >>Cc: tdoulin at dispatch.com >> >>This is an unusual case. The Ohio law -- a 1970s version of which >>Politech member Bruce Taylor successfully defended before a federal >>appeals court -- applies not only to dirty pictures, but also to >>written material: >> >>http://www.moralityinmedia.org/obsclawlinks.htm#oh >>"No person, with knowledge of the character of the material or >>performance involved, shall do any of the following... Create, >>reproduce, or publish any obscene material that has a minor as one >>of its participants or portrayed observers... Buy, procure, >>possess, or control any obscene material, that has a minor as one >>of its participants..." >> >>Anyone who possesses such a visual or written description -- >>including a diary entry or an erotic story -- is guilty of a >>felony. That means Ohioans who have on their hard drive an >>"obscene" text file from alt.sex.stories are felons. >> >>Other coverage: >>http://www.nydailynews.com/2001-07-05/News_and_Views/Beyond_the_City >>/a-117267.asp >>http://enquirer.com/editions/2001/07/05/loc_tristate_a_m_report.html >> >>-Declan >> >>********* >> >>From: "Robert V. Zwink" >>To: >>Subject: Man's journal ruled obscene >>Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 10:24:08 -0400 >>Message-ID: >>MIME-Version: 1.0 >>Content-Type: text/plain; >> charset="iso-8859-1" >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>X-Priority: 3 (Normal) >>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >> >>This is possibly one for your list. A 22-year old wrote extensively about >>his pedophile delusions in a daily personal journal. Law enforcement found >>the journal, today he was sentenced to 10 years in prison. Seems he should >>be in an addiction clinic not a prison. The journal was never published. >> >>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >> >>From The Columbus Dispatch >>http://www.dispatch.com/news/news01/july01/755632.html >> >>Man's journal ruled obscene >> >>Wednesday, July 4, 2001 >> >>Tim Doulin >>Dispatch Staff Reporter >> >>Brian Dalton wrote fictitious tales of sexually abusing and torturing >>children in his private journal, intending that no one else see them, he >>said. >> >>But when his probation officer found the journal during a routine search of >>Dalton's Columbus home, prosecutors charged him with pandering obscenity >>involving a minor. >> >>In Franklin County Common Pleas Court yesterday, the 22-year-old man's >>written words cost him 10 years in prison. >> >>The case worries civil-rights lawyer Benson Wolman, who said it has >>free-speech implications. >> >>"What you're saying is somebody can't, in essence, confess their fantasy >>into a personal journal for fear they have socially unacceptable fantasies, >>then ultimately they end up getting prosecuted,'' said Wolman, former >>director of the American Civil Liberties Union in Ohio. >> >>"This is the only case that I know of where we are talking about a >>journal -- just written words. It surprises and offends me that an action >>should be brought based on a journal.'' >> >>But Franklin County Prosecutor Ron O'Brien called the case a "breakthrough'' >>in the battle against child pornography. >> >>[...] >> >>"This is one of the first felony cases in Franklin County that involves the >>written word -- a writing somebody created on their own,'' he said. >> >>"Even without passing it on to anyone else, he committed a felony.'' >> >>[...] From sandfort at mindspring.com Thu Jul 5 11:39:12 2001 From: sandfort at mindspring.com (Sandy Sandfort) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 11:39:12 -0700 Subject: Most of a nation on probation? In-Reply-To: <3B444B0B.12812.84620F@localhost> Message-ID: jamesd at echeque.com wrote: > Anyone who can be safely paroled, > should probably not have been > convicted. I don't see how that follows, but in any case, it is irrelevant to my point, that from the individual's point of view, parole is better than incarceration. > Parole is cheap way of punishing > decent people. Or guilty people for that matter. S a n d y From juicy at melontraffickers.com Thu Jul 5 11:54:55 2001 From: juicy at melontraffickers.com (A. Melon) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 11:54:55 -0700 Subject: Dropping out of the USA Message-ID: <53468f78f37d8008394b4902035e1087@melontraffickers.com> Well, this is not exactly on topic to any ongoing thread, but its something I'd like to get a few opinions on. It seems that while science is moving ahead at a such a rate that I'm constantly amazed to see science fiction becoming science fact, at the same time we're seeing more political(?)-fiction(nightmares?) becoming fact as well in the form of government censorship and persecution. As I'm not exactly excited about the prospect of being shot or winding up in jail indefinitely for 'political crimes', it seems the best options are to simply leave the country altogether or forget about the personal freedoms granted by the constitution. So my question is: where to go? I certainly don't want to leave behind all the neat toys in the US like widespread broadband internet access, massive bookstores, high paying tech jobs, etc. Is there any country that has the same technological benefits as the US without the government steadily encroaching into every sector of life? How does one 'drop out' of the US and keep all the good things one has become accustomed to? "The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." - Thomas Jefferson From declan at well.com Thu Jul 5 08:57:50 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 11:57:50 -0400 Subject: Forbidden Knowledge (Banned Research, Part II) In-Reply-To: ; from bear@sonic.net on Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 08:23:02AM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20010705115750.B27848@cluebot.com> On Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 08:23:02AM -0700, Ray Dillinger wrote: > Not quite yet. People have gone to prison for *releasing* viruses, > not for *writing* them. Heck, I've written a dozen viruses myself, > and not one has ever been run on a machine I didn't reformat within > the week. An amusing pastime - not a crime. At least not yet. If it's illegal (under Goodlatte's bill) to distribute spam code, why not arguably more destructive viral code? After all, this congressional session is still young and there's plenty of time for them to get inventive. -Declan From Eugene.Leitl at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Thu Jul 5 02:59:40 2001 From: Eugene.Leitl at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Eugene Leitl) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 11:59:40 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: ANN: TAZCon I, Sep. 1-Oct. 1, 2002 (fwd) Message-ID: -- Eugen* Leitl leitl ______________________________________________________________ ICBMTO : N48 10'07'' E011 33'53'' http://www.lrz.de/~ui22204 57F9CFD3: ED90 0433 EB74 E4A9 537F CFF5 86E7 629B 57F9 CFD3 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 22:31:32 -0500 From: Jeff Bone To: fork at xent.com Subject: ANN: TAZCon I, Sep. 1-Oct. 1, 2002 NoNewswire, 7/4/2000, Austin, TX: This is the first public non-announcement of TAZCon I, a non-conference devoted to autonomy in all its interpretations. TAZCon I will *not* be hosted in Austin from Sep. 1-Oct. 1, 2002, and is *not* open to any who wish to participate. There are no events planned, but if there were they would consist of BOFs, parties, and other events organized around the following, and any other conceivable, topics: privacy, IP law, organizational strategies against strategic monopolies and corporatocracies / hegemonies, legal remedies, illegal remedies, insurrection, subversion of existing political systems, co-option of existing political systems, bloodless revolution, public nudity, masked society, transparent society, Lockeian property rights, the 1st amendment, the 2nd amendment, the 4th amendment, colorblind law, genderless law, technology and the law, anti-trust in a network-effects context, post-modern economics, semiotics, competitive poetry, the arts, ontological terrorism, piss Christ, anti-collectivism, Linux, Zope and other Python development, asynchronous event notification, DNS alternatives, private ownership of ABC weapons, gray goo scenarios and how to prevent them, the ethics of AI, the GPL and other Open Source licenses, tribalism and antitribalism, anarchy, libertarianism, freedom, fairness, M$ alternatives in corporate IS infrastructure, censor-free networking, the sociodynamics of P2P networking, free speech, anonymity, strong contracts, strong drink, non-coercive social frameworks, and just about anything else. Anyone wishing *not* to host a particular topic, RFP, discussion, BOF, think-n-drink, theme rave, live music act, or other interesting event need not apply. (Boring events will be considered and summarily discarded.) Regardless, please *do not* contact the author, as I have nothing at all to do with this odious non-event. We will *not* take over the city of Austin, TX, for a month next year. Promise. Do not pass this message along to anyone, period. Peace, Love, and Evil Smileys, jb http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork From Eugene.Leitl at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Thu Jul 5 02:59:40 2001 From: Eugene.Leitl at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Eugene Leitl) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 11:59:40 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: ANN: TAZCon I, Sep. 1-Oct. 1, 2002 (fwd) Message-ID: -- Eugen* Leitl leitl ______________________________________________________________ ICBMTO : N48 10'07'' E011 33'53'' http://www.lrz.de/~ui22204 57F9CFD3: ED90 0433 EB74 E4A9 537F CFF5 86E7 629B 57F9 CFD3 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 22:31:32 -0500 From: Jeff Bone To: fork at xent.com Subject: ANN: TAZCon I, Sep. 1-Oct. 1, 2002 NoNewswire, 7/4/2000, Austin, TX: This is the first public non-announcement of TAZCon I, a non-conference devoted to autonomy in all its interpretations. TAZCon I will *not* be hosted in Austin from Sep. 1-Oct. 1, 2002, and is *not* open to any who wish to participate. There are no events planned, but if there were they would consist of BOFs, parties, and other events organized around the following, and any other conceivable, topics: privacy, IP law, organizational strategies against strategic monopolies and corporatocracies / hegemonies, legal remedies, illegal remedies, insurrection, subversion of existing political systems, co-option of existing political systems, bloodless revolution, public nudity, masked society, transparent society, Lockeian property rights, the 1st amendment, the 2nd amendment, the 4th amendment, colorblind law, genderless law, technology and the law, anti-trust in a network-effects context, post-modern economics, semiotics, competitive poetry, the arts, ontological terrorism, piss Christ, anti-collectivism, Linux, Zope and other Python development, asynchronous event notification, DNS alternatives, private ownership of ABC weapons, gray goo scenarios and how to prevent them, the ethics of AI, the GPL and other Open Source licenses, tribalism and antitribalism, anarchy, libertarianism, freedom, fairness, M$ alternatives in corporate IS infrastructure, censor-free networking, the sociodynamics of P2P networking, free speech, anonymity, strong contracts, strong drink, non-coercive social frameworks, and just about anything else. Anyone wishing *not* to host a particular topic, RFP, discussion, BOF, think-n-drink, theme rave, live music act, or other interesting event need not apply. (Boring events will be considered and summarily discarded.) Regardless, please *do not* contact the author, as I have nothing at all to do with this odious non-event. We will *not* take over the city of Austin, TX, for a month next year. Promise. Do not pass this message along to anyone, period. Peace, Love, and Evil Smileys, jb http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork From Eugene.Leitl at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Thu Jul 5 03:11:01 2001 From: Eugene.Leitl at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Eugene Leitl) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 12:11:01 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: IP: Falun Gong, the Internet revolution (fwd) Message-ID: -- Eugen* Leitl leitl ______________________________________________________________ ICBMTO : N48 10'07'' E011 33'53'' http://www.lrz.de/~ui22204 57F9CFD3: ED90 0433 EB74 E4A9 537F CFF5 86E7 629B 57F9 CFD3 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 21:46:12 -0400 From: David Farber Reply-To: farber at cis.upenn.edu To: ip-sub-1 at majordomo.pobox.com Subject: IP: Falun Gong, the Internet revolution >From: jod at ccat.sas.upenn.edu (James J. O'Donnell) >To: farber at cis.upenn.edu (Dave Farber) >Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 21:32:16 -0400 (EDT) > > >Very interesting piece in the Times: > >http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/05/world/05FALU.html?pagewanted=all > >It reads like a chapter of *Neuromancer* at some points. > >Jim O'Donnell >Classics, U. of Penn >jod at ccat.sas.upenn.edu For archives see: http://www.interesting-people.org/ From Eugene.Leitl at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Thu Jul 5 03:11:01 2001 From: Eugene.Leitl at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Eugene Leitl) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 12:11:01 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: IP: Falun Gong, the Internet revolution (fwd) Message-ID: -- Eugen* Leitl leitl ______________________________________________________________ ICBMTO : N48 10'07'' E011 33'53'' http://www.lrz.de/~ui22204 57F9CFD3: ED90 0433 EB74 E4A9 537F CFF5 86E7 629B 57F9 CFD3 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 21:46:12 -0400 From: David Farber To: ip-sub-1 at majordomo.pobox.com Subject: IP: Falun Gong, the Internet revolution >From: jod at ccat.sas.upenn.edu (James J. O'Donnell) >To: farber at cis.upenn.edu (Dave Farber) >Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 21:32:16 -0400 (EDT) > > >Very interesting piece in the Times: > >http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/05/world/05FALU.html?pagewanted=all > >It reads like a chapter of *Neuromancer* at some points. > >Jim O'Donnell >Classics, U. of Penn >jod at ccat.sas.upenn.edu For archives see: http://www.interesting-people.org/ From sandfort at mindspring.com Thu Jul 5 12:16:06 2001 From: sandfort at mindspring.com (Sandy Sandfort) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 12:16:06 -0700 Subject: Dropping out of the USA In-Reply-To: <53468f78f37d8008394b4902035e1087@melontraffickers.com> Message-ID: "A. Melon" wrote: > ...it seems the best options are > to simply leave the country.... > So my question is: where to go? > I certainly don't want to leave > behind all the neat toys in the > US like widespread broadband > internet access... StarBand (http://starband.com/) is expanding internationally. It will soon be available in Latin America, for example. Plus, broadband is available in many countries already. > ...massive bookstores... Amazon.com, plus massive bookstores are fairly common outside the US. Even Singapore has its MPH chain of bookstores. ...high paying tech jobs... You ARE telecommuting already, right? I have a friend who lives on a private island in Florida. He collects Silicon Valley wages while having a rural cost of living. There are extreme telecommuters working out of Bali. S a n d y From aimee.farr at pobox.com Thu Jul 5 11:21:01 2001 From: aimee.farr at pobox.com (Aimee Farr) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 13:21:01 -0500 Subject: Meatspace anonymity manual In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The Lone Ranger also wore a black mask. He also rode the same horse, hung around the same Indian, and manifested repetitive behavior patterns. I don't think he really fooled anybody. The FBI and PO-lice aren't the only ones interested in anarchists. ~Aimee > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-cypherpunks at lne.com [mailto:owner-cypherpunks at lne.com]On > Behalf Of Anonymous Coredump > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 11:46 AM > To: cypherpunks at cyberpass.net > Subject: Meatspace anonymity manual > > > http://www.iprimus.ca/~dawnone/bbloc.htm > ----- > > excerpt: > > THE BLACK "BLOC" The whole idea of a Black Bloc is that people wear all > black, and stay in a tight formation. If people don't stay in formation, > and wander around with large gaps in-between, well, that's not a black > bloc, that's a march of anarchists wearing black. A black bloc requires > that people stay tight and stay alert. In Cincinnati, we did very well > with this idea. People (for the most part) stayed tight and alert, and > there were very few instances where gaps became a problem. In DC (IMF > Protests), this was a *huge* problem. The Bloc was very loose, and a lot > of times, it seemed like people were not alert to what was going on. > This luckily didn't turn too ugly, but if the cops didn't have their > heads so far up their ass, they could have used that opportunity to > divide us and make mass arrests. We cannot allow any opportunity for > them to do that, an injury to one is an injury to all, remember. > > BLACK BLOC ATTIRE Seattle was probably the most effective Black Bloc > we've seen in this country, and yet there was one glaring mistake that > the Black Bloc made. Their black bloc attire wasn't exactly anonymous. > It all boils down to this: Wearing a bandanna doesn't mean much if you > have blue hair and a huge "Aus Rotten" patch on your back. Part of the > purpose of a Black Bloc is to provide anonymity for it's members. You > are not doing yourself or your comrades any service by dressing in a > distinct way. Individuality is great and all, but sometimes it's okay to > ditch it for a few hours in order to avoid jail time. Cincinnati was > definitely better in this regard, but in order for a Black Bloc to truly > be effective, then that means that we should dress appropriately. This > means, black jeans or pants, black hooded sweatshirt, black shoes, and, > if necessary, plain black jackets. Face masks should be plain black, > whether bandannas or ski masks. Most black bandannas that are purchased > are black and white. This is not good. You're better off just cutting a > piece of plain black cloth into a bandanna shape.As the police and the > FBI learn more about anarchist culture, they're going to become much > better at singling people out based on patches or clothing. They didn't > have much experience with it in Seattle, which is why people were able > to get away with wearing patch-pants or other distinctive outfits, but > rest assured that they're getting better at it, which means that we're > going to have to get better at dressing properly. From sandfort at mindspring.com Thu Jul 5 13:30:06 2001 From: sandfort at mindspring.com (Sandy Sandfort) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 13:30:06 -0700 Subject: Most of a nation on probation? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sampo Syreeni wrote: > The difference is that most of > the people around here seem to > be arguing from the societal > point of view. (Cheap) parole, > even if sheer bliss for the > felon, is a bad thing when > thought about with due respect > to what it does to whole > communities. Yes, that's correct. I am arguing against that collectivist viewpoint. It's the individual's suffering I'm most concerned with. I think it would be great to reform the whole shebang; let's do it, but let's not put the cart before the horse and harm the individual "for the greater good." Yeah, laws are tough to repeal, but that's where our efforts need to be placed, not on some indirect, "we'll really make it costly for the state" approach. Of course, as Cypherpunks we REALLY should be thinking how to make the laws irrelevant. And for what it's worth, that comes easier when we are dealing with someone who is relatively freer due to being on parole. Now let's put some Cypherpunk brain power towards those tattletale ankle transponders... S a n d y From account at acm.org Thu Jul 5 10:44:54 2001 From: account at acm.org (account at acm.org) Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 13:44:54 -0400 Subject: Your ACM Web Account URL Message-ID: <00e3f4845170571KURTZ@maint4.acm.org> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 982 bytes Desc: not available URL: From declan at well.com Thu Jul 5 10:48:22 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 13:48:22 -0400 Subject: Tampa using cameras to scan for wanted faces-- In-Reply-To: ; from Eugene.Leitl@lrz.uni-muenchen.de on Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 06:36:38PM +0200 References: Message-ID: <20010705134822.C29575@cluebot.com> On Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 06:36:38PM +0200, Eugene Leitl wrote: > (Echelon is surely using these on targeted emails), gait and mannerisms > (not even in development, but sure to arrive some day). I sent a freelance reporter to a conference and edited her story that described NSA-funded research designed to do gait recognition, recognizing someone by the way they walk. See the Wired archives. -Declan From Jon.Beets at pacer.com Thu Jul 5 12:08:59 2001 From: Jon.Beets at pacer.com (Jon Beets) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 14:08:59 -0500 Subject: Sony's PlayStation 2: The 'Ultimate Weapon'? Message-ID: <007701c10585$f2599170$03d36b3f@pacer.com> I thought this was interesting... Jon Beets Pacer Communications -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 430 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tcmay at got.net Thu Jul 5 14:19:03 2001 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 14:19:03 -0700 Subject: Most of a nation on probation? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 1:30 PM -0700 7/5/01, Sandy Sandfort wrote: >Sampo Syreeni wrote: > >> The difference is that most of >> the people around here seem to >> be arguing from the societal >> point of view. (Cheap) parole, >> even if sheer bliss for the >> felon, is a bad thing when >> thought about with due respect >> to what it does to whole >> communities. > >Yes, that's correct. I am arguing against that collectivist viewpoint. Oh, puh-leeeze! My argument is not a collectivist viewpoint. It's just like any argument that drug laws are bad. (Being one of those who doesn't use drugs, and who never has, honest!, is any argument from me that drugs should not be illegal a "collectivist viewpoint"?) Ditto for thousands of other examples where the societal and legal and ethical implications dominate. --Tim May -- Timothy C. May tcmay at got.net Corralitos, California Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns From adam at cypherspace.org Thu Jul 5 11:49:07 2001 From: adam at cypherspace.org (Adam Back) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 14:49:07 -0400 Subject: Declan misses the mark on ecash In-Reply-To: <20010614153303.D4202@cluebot.com>; from Declan McCullagh on Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 03:33:03PM -0400 References: <20010614190021.32578.qmail@nym.alias.net> <20010614153303.D4202@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <20010705144907.A7219@economists.cryptohill.net> A little behind on mail, but I figure some of this is sufficiently misleading to dig up again: On Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 03:33:03PM -0400, Declan McCullagh wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 07:00:21PM -0000, lcs Mixmaster Remailer wrote: > > It is a botched attempt to describe the "cut and choose" mechanism. > > Right, it was an attempt to describe "cut and choose" in three > sentences or so. It's a news article, not a technical paper. Deal. The point is Chaums ecash never did deploy cut and choose. So whether the description of cut and choose was unclear or not it was irrelevant, and confused to describe it at all. > > The article also contains a recap of the Chaum/Brands patent wars. > > It would have been more interesting if there were some reference > > to new approaches to ecash that avoid the patents, such as the > > Lucre software by Ben Laurie, based on David Wagner's blinding > > (http://anoncvs.aldigital.co.uk/lucre/ > > The point of that section of the article was to talk about available > patents. Wagner's scheme appears to reply on Chaum's (original) > patents, so it wasn't relevant. According to who? You? Care to elaborate on your thinking? So far your analysis of the patent discussion around Wagner's scheme looks like just spurious uninformed dismisive comments. The point of Wagner's scheme is that it is not a blind signature but a MAC coupled with a zero-knowledge proof of non-coin marking. I'd say it's more accurate to say it's not clear whether it is covered by something in the patent minefield or not. There was a comment on dbs list that a lawyer at berkeley had offered the opinion that it was not. Chaum offers the opinion that it is covered by his blind signature patents. I find that unlikely as it is not a signature as it fails one of the main aspects of a signature -- that there is something that is verifiable by the holder and usually others relating to some message. There are of course other opinions also, but I find your dismissive comments misleading. Also this comment : > appears to be unpatented." Right. Whatever. > You can take that anonymous claim to the bank. I don't think anyone was claiming you would proceed in any patented area without legal advise. I don't think anonymous comments should hold less weight. Yet you were presuming to dismiss Wagner's approach as clearly covered by patents which appears to be an uninformed and probably incorrect opinion. Adam From ptrei at rsasecurity.com Thu Jul 5 12:01:36 2001 From: ptrei at rsasecurity.com (Trei, Peter) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 15:01:36 -0400 Subject: Meatspace anonymity manual Message-ID: > From: Aimee Farr[SMTP:aimee.farr at pobox.com] > > > The Lone Ranger also wore a black mask. He also rode the same horse, hung > around the same Indian, and manifested repetitive behavior patterns. I > don't > think he really fooled anybody. > > The FBI and PO-lice aren't the only ones interested in anarchists. > > ~Aimee > Duh. The Lone Ranger was interested in establishing an individual, persistant nym, unlinked a known person, not total anonymity. These 'blackbloc' vandals want to create confusion about which one of them commits which crime, thus using their Constitutional protections to protect them from successful prosecution. In a similar move, cops cover up their badge numbers when they plan to violate people's civil rights. Of course, this mechanism is very weak in the face of a reputation attack - an Agent Provocateur or a whole bloc of APs could easily destroy the credibility of the the blackbloc technique. Different goals, different methods. Peter Trei From Eugene.Leitl at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Thu Jul 5 06:09:33 2001 From: Eugene.Leitl at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Eugene Leitl) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 15:09:33 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: Tampa using cameras to scan for wanted faces-- In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010705054332.0080a7e0@pop.sprynet.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, David Honig wrote: > Parking tickets? Go to the local cop/FBI site, download the > *Wanted* pix, fab a mask, have fun. Hmm. It might work for the current generation of cams, but not for stuff which actually measures the face topography. And, of course, you can't hide the other biometrics. It seems, even plastic surgery has its limits. -- Eugen* Leitl leitl ______________________________________________________________ ICBMTO : N48 10'07'' E011 33'53'' http://www.lrz.de/~ui22204 57F9CFD3: ED90 0433 EB74 E4A9 537F CFF5 86E7 629B 57F9 CFD3 From Eugene.Leitl at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Thu Jul 5 06:09:33 2001 From: Eugene.Leitl at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Eugene Leitl) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 15:09:33 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: Tampa using cameras to scan for wanted faces-- In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010705054332.0080a7e0@pop.sprynet.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, David Honig wrote: > Parking tickets? Go to the local cop/FBI site, download the > *Wanted* pix, fab a mask, have fun. Hmm. It might work for the current generation of cams, but not for stuff which actually measures the face topography. And, of course, you can't hide the other biometrics. It seems, even plastic surgery has its limits. -- Eugen* Leitl leitl ______________________________________________________________ ICBMTO : N48 10'07'' E011 33'53'' http://www.lrz.de/~ui22204 57F9CFD3: ED90 0433 EB74 E4A9 537F CFF5 86E7 629B 57F9 CFD3 From Jon.Beets at pacer.com Thu Jul 5 13:15:28 2001 From: Jon.Beets at pacer.com (Jon Beets) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 15:15:28 -0500 Subject: Sony's PlayStation 2: The 'Ultimate Weapon'? References: <007701c10585$f2599170$03d36b3f@pacer.com> Message-ID: <022b01c1058f$3c203350$03d36b3f@pacer.com> It would probably be even more interesting if there was a link provided... LOL Sorry about that.. Here it is... http://www.newsfactor.com/perl/story/11736.html Jon Beets Pacer Communications ----- Original Message ----- From: Jon Beets To: cypherpunks at einstein.ssz.com Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 2:08 PM Subject: Sony's PlayStation 2: The 'Ultimate Weapon'? I thought this was interesting... Jon Beets Pacer Communications -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1721 bytes Desc: not available URL: From declan at well.com Thu Jul 5 12:28:09 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 15:28:09 -0400 Subject: Declan misses the mark on ecash In-Reply-To: <20010705144907.A7219@economists.cryptohill.net>; from adam@cypherspace.org on Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 02:49:07PM -0400 References: <20010614190021.32578.qmail@nym.alias.net> <20010614153303.D4202@cluebot.com> <20010705144907.A7219@economists.cryptohill.net> Message-ID: <20010705152809.A31598@cluebot.com> Anonymous comments like the ones I dismissed can be dismissed easily enough. I never said the approach was "clearly covered," but I suspect it is probably covered. If you can point me to authority to the contrary, I would be delighted to read it. I suspect you can't. -Declan On Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 02:49:07PM -0400, Adam Back wrote: > I don't think anyone was claiming you would proceed in any patented > area without legal advise. I don't think anonymous comments should > hold less weight. Yet you were presuming to dismiss Wagner's approach > as clearly covered by patents which appears to be an uninformed and > probably incorrect opinion. > > Adam From aimee.farr at pobox.com Thu Jul 5 14:06:08 2001 From: aimee.farr at pobox.com (Aimee Farr) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 16:06:08 -0500 Subject: Meatspace anonymity manual In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Of course, this mechanism is very weak in the face of a > reputation attack - an Agent Provocateur or a whole bloc > of APs could easily destroy the credibility of the the > blackbloc technique. > > > Peter Trei Duh. :) No, my reference to the Lone Ranger mask was in regard to the fact it wasn't really effective concealment. Some of these groups have attracted the attention of sophisticated *private* interests. ~Aimee From adam at cypherspace.org Thu Jul 5 13:10:12 2001 From: adam at cypherspace.org (Adam Back) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 16:10:12 -0400 Subject: Declan misses the mark on ecash In-Reply-To: <20010705152809.A31598@cluebot.com>; from Declan McCullagh on Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 03:28:09PM -0400 References: <20010614190021.32578.qmail@nym.alias.net> <20010614153303.D4202@cluebot.com> <20010705144907.A7219@economists.cryptohill.net> <20010705152809.A31598@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <20010705161012.A8485@economists.cryptohill.net> On Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 03:28:09PM -0400, Declan McCullagh wrote: > I never said the approach was "clearly covered," but I suspect it is > probably covered. I am not sure why you suspect it is covered by Chaum's patents. You said in response to anonymous and I quote: | Wagner's scheme appears to reply on Chaum's (original) patents, so it | wasn't relevant. I explained to you in the post you are replying to why I don't think this claim is accurate. Wagner's scheme was designed explicitly to avoid being covered by Chaum's patents by people who have read Chaum's patents. Wagner's scheme is clearly not a signature, blind or otherwise. > If you can point me to authority to the contrary, I would be delighted to > read it. I suspect you can't. I have not personally asked a lawyer for an opinion. Neither have you I take it. This was why I suggested "unclear" was a better description of the current understanding than "appears to rely on Chaum's patents" which you appear to have made up. Perhaps the berkeley lawyers opinion could be tracked down? Adam From juicy at melontraffickers.com Thu Jul 5 16:27:06 2001 From: juicy at melontraffickers.com (A. Melon) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 16:27:06 -0700 Subject: Eli Lilly makes Prozac patients email addresses public. Message-ID: Hundreds of patients had signed up at a Lilly Web site for an automated e-mail reminding them to take their dose of the antidepressant. Lilly spokesman Jeff Newton said a message sent June 27 announcing the end of the service mistakenly included the e-mail addresses of all the subscribers in the message header. [...] http://www.cnn.com/2001/HEALTH/07/05/lilly.privacy.ap/index.html From George at Orwellian.Org Thu Jul 5 13:43:32 2001 From: George at Orwellian.Org (George at Orwellian.Org) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 16:43:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Colorado to use facial recognition Message-ID: <200107052043.QAA10700@www9.aa.psiweb.com> In a slightly confused report, HNN said the state of Colorado would start using facial recognition software in a year. "Mainly to prevent duplicate driver's license issuances." "Where the cameras will be placed is secret." Well, if you were going to check for license dups, you'd use it in the DMV after taking the picture of the person wanting a license. If anyone finds a less confused report on this, please post. ---- (As previously posted to the list.) http://foxnews.com/story/0,2933,28793,00.html # # Man Gets Ten Years in Prison for Pornographic Diary Entries # # An Ohio man has been sentenced to 10 years in prison after writing # fictitious stories about torturing and sexually abusing young # children. [snip] # # Still, Dalton was guilty of pandering obscenity because he "did # create, reproduce or publish any obscene material that has a # minor as one of its participants or portrayed observers," the # indictment said. # # "Even without passing it on to anyone else, he committed a # felony," Domis said. # # Franklin County Prosecutor Ron O'Brien called the case a # "breakthrough" in the battle against child pornography. Well, isn't that special. Thought crime in the first degree. Use google to search for: "erotic adventures of the brady bunch" 15 The Erotic Adventures of the Brady Bunch 16 [snip of 62 lines] 18 19 Bobby and Cindy were 14. While both had masturbated, neither was 20 really sure what sex was all about. That's why they were hiding in the 21 closet in Marcia's room. They had watched everything Greg and Marcia 22 had done, and were more than ready to give it a try. Bobby's almost 23 hairless cock had gotten hard before Greg had even mounted Marcia, and 24 it was still hard. Cindy's virgin pussy was so wet her panties were 25 soaked. As soon as Marcia and Greg were gone, they rushed out of the 26 closet and fell onto the bed. They had stripped while they watched, 27 but were too afraid of making noise to do anything. 28 29 Bobby pulled Cindy close, kissed her eyes and mouth the way he'd seen 30 Greg kiss Marcia. He moved down to Cindy's tiny, barely bulging 31 titties and began to lick and suck the nipples. They hardened even 32 more, which surprised him. He hadn't known that would happen. 33 34 Cindy held Bobby's cock gently. It was her first, and she wasn't sure 35 it wouldn't break. Bobby covered her hand with his and squeezed, then 36 stroked his shaft, showing her how to jack his dick. She stroked it a 37 few times on her own, liking the way it felt in her hand. 38 39 They skipped the rest of the foreplay they had seen. Both were eager 40 to fuck. But Cindy was a virgin, and they both knew a girls first fuck 41 could be painful. Cindy liked Bobby, trusted him, wanted him to be her 42 first. She lay on her back, her face framed by blond curls, her 43 lightly haired snatch a slightly darker blonde. She spread her legs 44 wide, fingered herself for a moment, letting Bobby look at her 45 pussy. Bobby stretched out above her, his knees between her legs, his 46 arms supporting his weight, his young, hard cock touching her 47 belly. Cindy took hold of his tool, guided it to her cunt, helped him 48 enter her. He entered slowly, stopping when Cindy flinched. He started 49 to backup, not wanting to hurt her. She grabbed his ass with both 50 hands, pulled him hard towards herself, felt a tearing pain in her 51 cunt. She buried her face in his shoulder, stifling a scream. She 52 told him not to move, told him that she had been told the pain would 53 go away in a few minutes. 54 [snip of 705 lines] And that's Google's WWW search. Then there's their Usenet search... From jya at pipeline.com Thu Jul 5 17:08:26 2001 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 17:08:26 -0700 Subject: Most of a nation on probation? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200107052108.RAA18544@johnson.mail.mindspring.net> Sandy proposes: >Now let's put some Cypherpunk brain power towards those >tattletale ankle transponders... What are other technological devices used to track parolees? Are there any limits on what can be used? Is the parolee less subject to pan-surveillance than the prisoner? Or is the parolee subject to greater surveillance than the prisoner due to being outside physical enclosure? The use of parolees as snitches is another issue, as with citizens who greatly fear prison, even more so the threat of prison, even more than that being seen as inadvertently swept up in an operation that lumps all in a heap. Pre-emptive ass-saving snitching by anyone subject to fear of authoritarian punishment: before and after a subpoena arrives, before and after a grand jury appearance, before and after appearing as a witness, before and after being named as an unindicted co-conspirator, before anda fter being named indiscriminately diffusely as a participant in an activity the government chooses to suspect of planning something that might become a chargeable offense which warrants pre-emptive spying and gathering pre-evidence by pre-legal means against those who need to watched closely, with purposeful clues left and rumors dropped to maximum self-policing effect. Did I leave anyone out the realm of suspicion which may well induce running to officials to relieve anxiety with a tale to tell? Even fabricating such tales if that pleasures the protectors ever able to spot a snitch aching to clear the record. A tall tale such as this one -- but how to tell who's quietly transponding beneath cover of technological simulators. From honig at sprynet.com Thu Jul 5 17:26:51 2001 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 17:26:51 -0700 Subject: Most of a nation on probation? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010705172651.0081aac0@pop.sprynet.com> At 01:30 PM 7/5/01 -0700, Sandy Sandfort wrote: >with someone who is relatively freer due to being on parole. Now let's put >some Cypherpunk brain power towards those tattletale ankle transponders... "Search the archives" for discussions about assuring that your server hasn't been moved. In the anklet case, you play the opposite role. dh From schear at lvcm.com Thu Jul 5 17:49:54 2001 From: schear at lvcm.com (Steve Schear) Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 17:49:54 -0700 Subject: Slashdot | Using GPS To Catch Speeders Found Illegal In-Reply-To: <20010705021642.A12123@cluebot.com> References: <20010704221121.A6210@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010705174352.04821008@pop3.lvcm.com> At 02:16 AM 7/5/2001 -0400, Declan McCullagh wrote: >On Wed, Jul 04, 2001 at 09:42:48PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > > If the auto vendor was really concerned about their vehicle they'd install > > a govenor (like they did on the '64 1/2 Mustand for example) that would > > limit the RPM's of the engine. Quick, easy, simple. A lot(!!!) less > > expensive (about $20) and more reliable than a GPS receiver. > >Then you'd risk spurious lawsuits from someone who can't accelerate >to get out of an accident situation, and you'd also lose the source of >income you might get from all these speeding tickets you as the >renter would levy. I wonder how significant such GPS-based levies would influence the basic business model and competitiveness of an auto rental company. At first be might be used as a tactical revenue source to enable lower basic rates and attract new business, with the scofflaws paying for the difference between competitor's market rates and the lower rates afforded by the levies. Later, it might evolve into a sustainable advantage as those most likely to pay the levies avoid the agency the remaining customers may very well be much safer drivers enabling lower insurance premiums and costs of operation steve From schear at lvcm.com Thu Jul 5 17:56:51 2001 From: schear at lvcm.com (Steve Schear) Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 17:56:51 -0700 Subject: Tampa using cameras to scan for wanted faces-- In-Reply-To: <20010705202231.A5886@cluebot.com> References: <20010705190827.B31247@positron.mit.edu> <20010705190827.B31247@positron.mit.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010705175158.04825ec0@pop3.lvcm.com> At 08:22 PM 7/5/2001 -0400, you wrote: >Ah, I found the article: > >http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,38775,00.html >September 15, 2000 > >-Declan > > >On Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 07:08:27PM -0400, Riad S. Wahby wrote: > > Declan McCullagh wrote: > > > I sent a freelance reporter to a conference and edited her story > > > that described NSA-funded research designed to do gait recognition, > > > recognizing someone by the way they walk. > > > > Time to dig out those "Ministry of Silly Walks" episodes. :-) Reminds me of Kevin Spacey's extraordinary performance in "The Usual Suspects." I suspect this technology could be defeated simply by placing a small, uncomfortable, stone in you shoe, in much the same way others have reportedly thwarted polygraph tests using a tack in the shoe to mess up biometric baseline comparisons. steve From JanisC14 at excite.com Thu Jul 5 18:02:13 2001 From: JanisC14 at excite.com (JanisC14 at excite.com) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 18:02:13 Subject: It's all up to you! Message-ID: <248.483544.585218@server02> THIS IS THE ONLY TIME YOU WILL GET THIS E-MAIL FROM US. TAKE THE TIME TO READ IT AND SEE A WAY TO CHANGE YOUR LIFESTYLE!!.... 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We strongly suggest you start with Method # 1 and add METHOD #2 as you go along. For every $5 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them the Report they ordered. That's it. Always provide same day service on all orders. This will guarantee that the e-mail they send out, with your name and address on it, will be prompt because they can not advertise until they receive the report. ORDER EACH REPORT BY ITS NUMBER AND NAME ONLY... * Always send $5 cash (US currency only) for each report * Checks NOT accepted * Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least 2 sheets of paper. *On one of those sheets of paper, write: a. The Name and Number of the report that you are ordering b. Your e-mail address and c. Your name and postal address. (In case of e-mail difficulties) PLACE YOUR ORDER FOR THESE REPORTS NOW: REPORT #1 "THE INSIDER'S GUIDE TO ADVERTISING FREE ON THE NET" Order #1 from: D. James P.O. 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There is NO LIMIT to the income you can generate from this business !!! ========================================================== FOLLOWING IS A NOTE FROM THE ORIGINATOR OF THIS PROGRAM: You have just received information that can give you financial freedom for the rest of your life, with NO RISK and JUST A LITTLE BIT OF EFFORT. You can make more money in the next few weeks and months than you have ever imagined. Follow the program EXACTLY AS INSTRUCTED. Do Not change it in any way. It works exceedingly well as it is now. Remember to e-mail a copy of this exciting report after you have put your name and address in Report #1 and moved others to #2 ...#5 as instructed above. One of the people you send this to may send out 100,000 or more e-mails and your name will be on every one of them. Remember though, the more you send out the more potential customers you will reach. So my friend, I have given you the ideas, information, materials and opportunity to become financially independent. IT IS UP TO YOU NOW ! ============ MORE TESTIMONIALS ================ "My name is Mitchell. My wife, Jody and I live in Chicago. I am an accountant with a major U.S. Corporation and I make pretty good money. When I received this program I grumbled to Jody about receiving ''junk mail''. I made fun of the whole thing, spouting my knowledge of the population and percentages involved. I ''knew'' it wouldn't work. Jody totally ignored my supposed intelligence and a few days later she jumped in with both feet. I made merciless fun of her, and was ready to lay the old ''I told you so'' on her when the thing didn't work. Well, the laugh was on me! Within 3 weeks she had received 50 responses. Within the next 45 days she had received total $147,200.00 ........... all cash! I was shocked. I have joined Jody in her ''hobby''. Mitchell Wolf M.D., Chicago, Illinois ================================================ ''Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make up my mind to participate in this plan. But conservative that I am, I decided that the initial investment was so little that there was just no way that I wouldn't get enough orders to at least get my money back''. '' I was surprised when I found my medium size post office box crammed with orders. I made $319,210.00 in the first 12 weeks. The nice thing about this deal is that it does not matter where people live. There simply isn't a better investment with a faster return and so big." Dan Sondstrom, Alberta, Canada ================================================= ''I had received this program before. I deleted it, but later I wondered if I should have given it a try. Of course, I had no idea who to contact to get another copy, so I had to wait until I was e-mailed again by someone else.........11 months passed then it luckily came again...... I did not delete this one! I made more than $490,000 on my first try and all the money came within 22 weeks." Susan De Suza, New York,N.Y. ================================================== ''It really is a great opportunity to make relatively easy money with little cost to you. I followed the simple instructions carefully and within 10 days the money started to come in. My first month I made $20,560.00 and by the end of third month my total cash count was $362,840.00. Life is beautiful, Thanks to internet.". Fred Dellaca, Westport, New Zealand =================================================== ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET STARTED ON 'YOUR' ROAD TO FINANCIAL FREEDOM! ==================================================== About 50,000 new people get online every month! _______________________________________________________ FOR YOUR INFORMATION....If you need help with starting a business, registering a business name, learning how income tax is handled, etc., contact your local office of the Small Business Administration (a Federal agency) 1-(800)827-5722 for free help and answers to questions. Also, the Internal Revenue Service offers free help via telephone and free seminars about business tax requirements. Under Bill S1618 Title III passed by the 105th US Congress this letter cannot be considered spam as long as the sender includes contact information and a method of removal. This is a one time e-mail transmission. No request for removal is necessary. If you have any questions of the legality of this program, contact the Office of Associate Director for Marketing Practices, Federal Trade Commission, Bureau of Consumer Protection, Washington, D.C. For automated removal and or comments/complaints >>>>JanisC14 at excite.com You will be automatically removed from the current list and any future lists. From declan at well.com Thu Jul 5 15:29:18 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 18:29:18 -0400 Subject: Most of a nation on probation? In-Reply-To: ; from sandfort@mindspring.com on Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 01:30:06PM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20010705182918.A4633@cluebot.com> On Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 01:30:06PM -0700, Sandy Sandfort wrote: > Yes, that's correct. I am arguing against that collectivist viewpoint. > It's the individual's suffering I'm most concerned with. I think it would I haven't followed this discussion closely, and I am sympathetic to the position that far too many non-violent activities are crimes. But if someone is a violent offender, I don't see why we should be concerned at all with their "suffering" in prison. We can argue about mandatory minimums, rehabilitation, and whether violent crimes should be state or federal offenses, but my instinct is to say I'd far rather see violent criminals behind bars than on parole. Right? Or am I just going collectivist-conservative in my advancing old age? -Declan From Eugene.Leitl at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Thu Jul 5 09:36:38 2001 From: Eugene.Leitl at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Eugene Leitl) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 18:36:38 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: Tampa using cameras to scan for wanted faces-- In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, Tim May wrote: > One of the interesting things is that _ear shape_ is one of the best > correlation features. There are a billion: skin pigmentation as seen in NIR illumination (my, do you look spotty), NIR laser scanning of body features (MEMS mirror galvanometers), including millimeter wave which penetrates clothing (in development still), voice fingerprint, person-specific word patterns (Echelon is surely using these on targeted emails), gait and mannerisms (not even in development, but sure to arrive some day). The only way to avoid radiating a fingerprint is to use anonymized teleoperated hardware as meatspace proxy. And of course you can outlaw these, unless teleoperated robotics becomes very common in the next few decades (possible, but I'm not counting on it). > Of course, to measure ear shape the camera has to have a good view, > unobscured and at close enough range to get a decent number of > pixels. (This makes sense, that ear shape would be a good metric. Sure there are limitations to the current state of technology. The biometrics are of lousy quality, take seconds to compute on a ~GHz CPU, and are not generated in an embedded device. Nevertheless, imaging technology makes good progress with embedding DSP cores and using hybrid architectures based on silicon retina technologies as pioneered by Mead. Because this is machine vision used on moving objects, it can tolerate dead pixels, allowing you to boost resolution (Information in a 640x480 30 fps is sure limited, but with CMOS tech like http://www.foveon.net/tech_f16.html and tolerance of ~5% dead pixels multimegapixel sensors plus active optics for tracking and feature extraction with parallel DSP cores integrated into the sensor you capture a lot of info, and process it in situ, too). As soon as the devices become sufficiently cheap you can integrate them into virtually anything (installation costs typically dwarf hardware costs), including street signs (OCR to read license plates is almost mature), lanterns, copers' wearables, etc. The extracted biometric alone is tiny, and can be readily transmitted using even current paltry 9.6 kBps wireless modems. > I've been noticing the variations in ear shapes since I heard about > this scheme. Also, I can imagine the various conformal > transformations--different angles of view, for example--preserve > certain relationships well.) > > I can believe some kind of automated face recognition is being done > with points of entry, such as international airport arrival points, > but I find it hard to swallow that "crowd shots" from overhead > cameras can do anything meaningful. With current tech the error rate is still high, but it's for real. The hardware is going to become better due to Moore alone, including silicon retina dedicated hardware, the economies of scale will apply, and of course the software will get better, so the capabilities will be ramping up very rapidly over the next few years. > The Tampa action may be mostly social engineering: "We're watching you!" Wehret den Anfaengen. The capabilities are still mostly vapour, and the coverage still spotty, but exponential processes have their counterintuitive dynamics. Twenty years more of those, and you'll be very, very surprised. -- Eugen* Leitl leitl ______________________________________________________________ ICBMTO : N48 10'07'' E011 33'53'' http://www.lrz.de/~ui22204 57F9CFD3: ED90 0433 EB74 E4A9 537F CFF5 86E7 629B 57F9 CFD3 From mixmaster at remailer.segfault.net Thu Jul 5 09:46:18 2001 From: mixmaster at remailer.segfault.net (Anonymous Coredump) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 18:46:18 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Meatspace anonymity manual Message-ID: http://www.iprimus.ca/~dawnone/bbloc.htm ----- excerpt: THE BLACK "BLOC" The whole idea of a Black Bloc is that people wear all black, and stay in a tight formation. If people don't stay in formation, and wander around with large gaps in-between, well, that's not a black bloc, that's a march of anarchists wearing black. A black bloc requires that people stay tight and stay alert. In Cincinnati, we did very well with this idea. People (for the most part) stayed tight and alert, and there were very few instances where gaps became a problem. In DC (IMF Protests), this was a *huge* problem. The Bloc was very loose, and a lot of times, it seemed like people were not alert to what was going on. This luckily didn't turn too ugly, but if the cops didn't have their heads so far up their ass, they could have used that opportunity to divide us and make mass arrests. We cannot allow any opportunity for them to do that, an injury to one is an injury to all, remember. BLACK BLOC ATTIRE Seattle was probably the most effective Black Bloc we've seen in this country, and yet there was one glaring mistake that the Black Bloc made. Their black bloc attire wasn't exactly anonymous. It all boils down to this: Wearing a bandanna doesn't mean much if you have blue hair and a huge "Aus Rotten" patch on your back. Part of the purpose of a Black Bloc is to provide anonymity for it's members. You are not doing yourself or your comrades any service by dressing in a distinct way. Individuality is great and all, but sometimes it's okay to ditch it for a few hours in order to avoid jail time. Cincinnati was definitely better in this regard, but in order for a Black Bloc to truly be effective, then that means that we should dress appropriately. This means, black jeans or pants, black hooded sweatshirt, black shoes, and, if necessary, plain black jackets. Face masks should be plain black, whether bandannas or ski masks. Most black bandannas that are purchased are black and white. This is not good. You're better off just cutting a piece of plain black cloth into a bandanna shape.As the police and the FBI learn more about anarchist culture, they're going to become much better at singling people out based on patches or clothing. They didn't have much experience with it in Seattle, which is why people were able to get away with wearing patch-pants or other distinctive outfits, but rest assured that they're getting better at it, which means that we're going to have to get better at dressing properly. From res02mg1 at gte.net Thu Jul 5 15:56:22 2001 From: res02mg1 at gte.net (David C. Dickson) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 18:56:22 -0400 Subject: Network and Info Systems Security Training Conference - Wash DC, 16 July 2001 Message-ID: <217852001745225622140@EAGLE> To: CYPHERPUNKS at TOAD.COM NEW SPEAKERS ADDED PLEASE FORWARD THIS TO YOUR MANAGER OF SYSTEMS SECURITY, TRENDS, AND SECURITY TECHNOLOGIES GROUP. Market*Access International is proud to present .... NETWORK AND INFORMATION SYSTEMS SECURITY - TRAINING CONFERENCE AGENCY INTRUSION DETECTION REQUIREMENTS and TECHNOLOGY SOLUTIONS Date: July 16, 2001 Ronald Reagan Building and International Trade Center 1300 Pennsylvania Avenue Washington D.C. Atrium Ballroom Time: 7:30 AM Registration and Continental Breakfast Program Starts: 8:30 AM Wrap-up: 4:15 PM About this Conference: As government becomes more dependent on e-business, databases, information storehouses, mission critical information storage and information sharing, new risks are posed. These risks may come from student hackers, foreign governments or foreign military, terrorist organizations or even internal users. With the new e-Government applications and communications, computer security has emerged as a top issue and challenge. This conference will highlight the risks, opportunities and innovative management and technical approaches to the detection and response to unauthorized intrusions into agency data. The conference will focus on business and military applications and agency plans and programs for securing these applications. A highlight of this conference will be a section on AGENCY REQUIREMENTS AND NEW TECHNOLOGIES and strategies of coping with unauthorized attempts to compromise agency and DoD systems and data. SPEAKERS WILL REPRESENT THE FOLLOWING AGENCIES/COMPANIES: Navy NMCI 嚙 Mark Lavoie 嚙 Communications Officer, CDR, USNR PEO IT (Program Executive Office of Information Technology). Department of Transportation - Bonnie Fisher 嚙 Director, TASC Millennium Solutions Center National Science Foundation - Dara Murry 嚙 Director, ADP Security FBI - James Burrell 嚙 Acting Unit Chief, Computer Investigation Unit DARPA - Jim Webster 嚙 Manager, Information Assurance Office GSA/FedCIRC - Larry Hale 嚙 Liaison Director, Federal Computer Incident Response Center DOJ 嚙 TBD DISA 嚙 TBD Gartner 嚙 Keynote 嚙 TBD Guardant 嚙 Robert Lee 嚙 Director, Senior Principal Consultant Global Integrity - Errol Weiss, Bill Morgan Verizon, Federal Network Systems - Char Sample 嚙 Raytheon 嚙 Barton Abbott 嚙 Director, Information Assurance, Navy /USMC Intranet, Information Strike Force Symantec - TBD For more information on speakers and the conference agenda, please visit our web site at www.marketaccess.org. Who should attend: * Agency IT Executives, Managers, and Staff * Agency Security Executives, Managers and Staff * Agency information systems program managers * Agency Telecommunications Executives, Managers and Staff * Tele-work and Telecomm Directors, Managers, and Staff * Functional area managers * Systems integrators that support federal agency security requirements * Hardware and software solutions providers What you will learn: * Agency plans, programs and priorities * Successes and Lessons learned * Innovative government intrusion detection security approaches and applications * New technologies and strategies - what is on the drawing boards * How the military approaches network security and intrusion detection * Security of remote database management * How to structure intrusion detection solutions * Risks, sources of attacks... the internal risk * Commercial and government best practices Corporate Sponsors: * Symantec * Verizon * Market*Access .... others to be announced Organizational Sponsors: * Department of Transportation * INPUT Government ....other sponsors to be announced. Please register early. The conference area has limited seating available and we anticipate a sell out. Points of Contact: * For technical support with this web site, please contact Mr. Parrish Knight, 703/807-2748 * For general information about this event, please contact Ms. Kristen Brooks, 703/807-2745 * For information on sponsorship opportunities & exhibitor arrangements, please contact Ms. Cara Lombardi at 703/807-2743 The registration fee for this important training conference is: * Government Credit Card or Check in Advance: $395 * Government Training Forms/Invoice: $445 * Industry and Federal Contractors, Payment in Advance: $595 * Industry and Federal Contractors/Invoice: $645 We accept government training forms and government and commercial credit cards (VISA, MC, American Express). Options: [1] Phone: 703-807-2745 and speak with Ms. Kristen Brooks. [2] Email: kbrooks at marketaccess.org [3] Register online: Use our online booking form to register and pay by credit card electronically. To register, go to www.marketaccess.org. [4] Fax: registration form to 301-652-0914. [5] Mail: registration form to: Market*Access International, Inc. 4301 Wilson Blvd. #1003 Arlington, VA 22203 Sponsorships Available! For sponsorship information, please contact: Cara Lombardi Market*Access International 4301 Wilson Blvd. #1003 Arlington, VA 22203 Phone (703) 807-2743 Fax (703) 807-2728 clombardi at marketaccess.org If you wish to be REMOVED from this list, please REPLY and place REMOVE in the SUBJECT line. Thank you From yilmaz_yunus at hotmail.com Thu Jul 5 09:05:47 2001 From: yilmaz_yunus at hotmail.com (yunus) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 19:05:47 +0300 Subject: No subject Message-ID: hi i have a laptop which has toshiba 8 x dvd and it was locked region what can i do can you help me please thanks -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 614 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rsw at MIT.EDU Thu Jul 5 16:08:27 2001 From: rsw at MIT.EDU (Riad S. Wahby) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 19:08:27 -0400 Subject: Tampa using cameras to scan for wanted faces-- In-Reply-To: <20010705134822.C29575@cluebot.com>; from declan@well.com on Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 01:48:22PM -0400 References: <20010705134822.C29575@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <20010705190827.B31247@positron.mit.edu> Declan McCullagh wrote: > I sent a freelance reporter to a conference and edited her story > that described NSA-funded research designed to do gait recognition, > recognizing someone by the way they walk. Time to dig out those "Ministry of Silly Walks" episodes. :-) -- Riad Wahby rsw at mit.edu MIT VI-2/A 2002 5105 From gambliel at corp.earthlink.net Thu Jul 5 16:12:05 2001 From: gambliel at corp.earthlink.net (gambliel at corp.earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 19:12:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Unsubscribe? (010705-20934097) Message-ID: <200107052312.TAA29083@mail.mindspring.com> how do you unsubscribe from this list? From PaulMerrill at acm.org Thu Jul 5 16:13:31 2001 From: PaulMerrill at acm.org (Paul H. Merrill) Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 19:13:31 -0400 Subject: Most of a nation on probation? References: <20010705182918.A4633@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <3B44F49B.4DC23861@ACM.Org> There are two aspects which need to be considered. 1. Rehabilitation must be a goal that is worked toward, else we will need to give life sentences to all participants in every bar brawl, for where would we place the line over which one shan't cross. 2. Scaled punishment is necessary, else one may as well kill as punch. Rapists may as well kill the victim - no witnesses, etc. Between the two, "violent offended" becomes too vague a grouping. PHM Declan McCullagh wrote: > > On Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 01:30:06PM -0700, Sandy Sandfort wrote: > > Yes, that's correct. I am arguing against that collectivist viewpoint. > > It's the individual's suffering I'm most concerned with. I think it would > > I haven't followed this discussion closely, and I am sympathetic to > the position that far too many non-violent activities are crimes. But if > someone is a violent offender, I don't see why we should be concerned > at all with their "suffering" in prison. > > We can argue about mandatory minimums, rehabilitation, and whether > violent crimes should be state or federal offenses, but my instinct is > to say I'd far rather see violent criminals behind bars than on parole. > Right? > > Or am I just going collectivist-conservative in my advancing old age? > > -Declan -- Paul H. Merrill, MCNE, MCSE+I, CISSP PaulMerrill at ACM.Org From declan at well.com Thu Jul 5 17:19:05 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 20:19:05 -0400 Subject: Liberal groups organize Congressional "Net-accountability" forum Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010705201748.02465ec0@mail.well.com> 7/10 State of the Net Forum : "Toward a Framework for Internet Accountability" 繚 Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 14:28:14 -0400 繚 To: update at cdt.org 繚 Subject: 7/10 State of the Net Forum : "Toward a Framework for Internet Accountability" 繚 From: ari at cdt.org You are cordially invited to a luncheon discussion "Toward a Framework for Internet Accountability", Tuesday, July 10 beginning at 12:00 noon. This event, hosted by the Internet Education Foundation (IEF), will explore the Markle Foundation's new study, "Toward a Framework for Internet \Accountability." The study, to be released Tuesday morning, finds that at a time of intense debate over key Internet policy Americans are enthusiastic about the Internet, but that they are eager to have new forms of public, private, and non-profit governance of the Internet in order to give them more protection and control when they go online. WHAT: "Toward a Framework for Internet Accountability", IEF State of the Net Series WHO: Zoe Baird, Markle Foundation Stan Greenberg, Greenberg, Quinlan, and Rosner Research with appearances by Leaders of the Internet Caucus WHERE: Reserve Officers Association One Constitution Ave, NE, Across from Dirksen Senate Office Building WHEN: Tuesday, July 10, from 12 NOON to 1:30 pm (Lunch served) RSVP: If planning to attend RSVP at neted.org or via phone to Danielle 202-638-4370. About the State of the Net Series "Toward a Framework for Internet Accountability" is the second in a series of discussions on the "State of the Net" hosted by IEF. The "State of the Net" project seeks to examine the policy and governance framework needed to assure that the Internet reaches its fullest commercial, communications and democratic potential. IEF believes that an assessment of the "State of the Net" is long overdue. The goal of the project is to take a "snapshot" of where we are in the development of the Internet. This snapshot will serve as a benchmark for measuring progress or lack thereof - in Internet policy. More information about "The State of the Net" project can be found at http://www.Stateofthe.Net About the Markle Foundation The Markle Foundation works to realize the potential of emerging communications media and information technology to improve people's lives and recently unveiled a new program focus and $100 million commitment to do so. The foundation's work is focused in three primary areas: Policy for a Networked Society, Interactive Media for Children, and Information Technologies for Better Health. Markle pursues its goals through a range of activities including analysis, research, public information and the development of innovative media products and services. The foundation creates and operates many of its own projects-using not only grants but also investments and strategic alliances with non-profits and businesses. More information on the Markle Foundation can be found at www.markle.org. About the Internet Education Foundation The Internet Education Foundation (IEF) is a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization dedicated to educating the public and policymakers about the potential of a decentralized global Internet to promote democracy, communications, and commerce. Since its founding in 1997, IEF has worked on many educational projects including the Congressional Internet Caucus Advisory Committee. IEF contributes the staffing, coordination, and funding for the Internet Caucus Advisory Committee administration, Web sites, publications and events. IEF also developed and hosts the GetNetWise child online safety campaign to help assure that children have safe and rewarding experiences online. IEF is located at http://www.NetEd.org. ---------------------------------- CDT Update Subscription Information E-mail questions, comments, or requests to subscribe or unsubscribe to ari at cdt.org or call (202) 637-9800. Detailed information about online civil liberties issues may be found at http://www.cdt.org/ ----------------------------------- Ari Schwartz Policy Analyst Center for Democracy and Technology 1634 Eye Street NW, Suite 1100 Washington, DC 20006 202 637 9800 fax 202 637 0968 ari at cdt.org http://www.cdt.org ----------------------------------- From njohnson at interl.net Thu Jul 5 18:22:30 2001 From: njohnson at interl.net (Neil Johnson) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 20:22:30 -0500 Subject: Kyllo: Taking the 5th on the 4th References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010703104644.04464fc0@pop3.lvcm.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20010703104644.04464fc0@pop3.lvcm.com> <3.0.6.32.20010704202956.00808880@pop.sprynet.com> Message-ID: <013d01c105ba$215ec740$e865a13f@moms> In Iowa, it is illegal to tint your windshield, and side and rear windows can only be tinted to a certain percent (They police have devices to measure opacity). The reasoning is that cops need to be able to see the driver's face for identification and when stopping a car to see if you are pulling a gun on them. -Neil ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Honig" To: "petro" ; Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 10:29 PM Subject: CDR: Re: Kyllo: Taking the 5th on the 4th > At 06:44 PM 7/3/01 -0700, petro wrote: > >>Although the ruling only appears to apply to one's home it does > >>raise questions whether citizens may have the right to prevent their > >>observation while in public. After all one is permitted tinted > >>windows on autos. Despite certain > > > > Not everywhere, and even then not all windows. > > Forget windows. Noone tells bimbos to remove wigs, facepaint, sunglasses, > gloves, various subdermal implants. You can, of course, *observe* them, but > you can't force them to reveal (flash to Planet of the Apes sequel) their > *true face*. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From declan at well.com Thu Jul 5 17:22:31 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 20:22:31 -0400 Subject: Tampa using cameras to scan for wanted faces-- In-Reply-To: <20010705190827.B31247@positron.mit.edu>; from rsw@mit.edu on Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 07:08:27PM -0400 References: <20010705190827.B31247@positron.mit.edu> Message-ID: <20010705202231.A5886@cluebot.com> Ah, I found the article: http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,38775,00.html September 15, 2000 -Declan On Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 07:08:27PM -0400, Riad S. Wahby wrote: > Declan McCullagh wrote: > > I sent a freelance reporter to a conference and edited her story > > that described NSA-funded research designed to do gait recognition, > > recognizing someone by the way they walk. > > Time to dig out those "Ministry of Silly Walks" episodes. :-) > > -- > Riad Wahby > rsw at mit.edu > MIT VI-2/A 2002 > > 5105 From schear at lvcm.com Thu Jul 5 20:33:08 2001 From: schear at lvcm.com (Steve Schear) Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 20:33:08 -0700 Subject: Kyllo: Taking the 5th on the 4th In-Reply-To: <013d01c105ba$215ec740$e865a13f@moms> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010703104644.04464fc0@pop3.lvcm.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20010703104644.04464fc0@pop3.lvcm.com> <3.0.6.32.20010704202956.00808880@pop.sprynet.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010705203004.0387df48@pop3.lvcm.com> At 08:22 PM 7/5/2001 -0500, Neil Johnson wrote: >In Iowa, it is illegal to tint your windshield, and side and rear windows >can only be tinted to a certain percent (They police have devices to measure >opacity). > >The reasoning is that cops need to be able to see the driver's face for >identification and when stopping a car to see if you are pulling a gun on >them. I wouldn't be surprised if most or all outdoor cameras use a polarizer to reduce glare and improve image quality in sunny situations. If so, windshields with cross-polarized inner liners (invisive to the naked eye as they would appear to be just a slight added neutral tint) should make their job much harder. steve From a3495 at cotse.com Thu Jul 5 17:43:31 2001 From: a3495 at cotse.com (Faustine) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 20:43:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Most of a nation on probation? Message-ID: Declan wrote: > I haven't followed this discussion closely, and I am sympathetic to > the position that far too many non-violent activities are crimes. But if > someone is a violent offender, I don't see why we should be concerned > at all with their "suffering" in prison. Well, just because someone is a scumbag doesn't mean he automatically loses his humanity and therefore deserves whatever torture and rape anyone in the facility cares to dish out to him every day for the rest of his life. What happened to OUR humanity in not being concerned about that? No need for the quotes around "suffering" in far too many places in the US, either. You know as well as I do that labeling someone "potentially violent" is a quick and easy way to take away their rights. For that reason alone, not caring about the rights of "violent offenders" seems like the first step along a slippery slope into full-blown authoritarianism. In a sense, it all comes back to your idea of the nature and role of punishment in society. Here's an excerpt from a review of Foucault's 1975 work "Discipline and Punish: The Birth of Prison" which I found useful... ~Faustine. *** If punishment serves a social function in healthy societies, it stands to reason that the nature and character of punishment will change along with the society. Different societies will have different modes of punishment, and what counts as the legitimate exercise of violence by the state will change over time. That is to say, punishment has a history. Foucault examines the history of punishment in the West, concentrating specifically on the historical shift in the practice of punishment from the 18th to the 19th century. There is a movement from the public spectacle of dramatic torture to the rise of incarceration in the 19th century and the disappearance of spectacle. It is easy to see the spectacular punishments of old described by Foucault in the beginning of this section as a means of persuasion. The emphasis on publicity and on visibility shows clearly that the goal of punishment is to persuade society through spectacle. Modern forms of punishment still function persuasively, but somewhat differently, as the spectacle has disappeared from public view, and punishment has become a more pervasive and less overtly performative affair. Foucault finds two processes at work: disappearance of punishment as spectacle: punishment goes into hiding. It is everywhere and nowhere at the same time. An invisible yet ever present threat (even a certainty, an inevitability). "justice no longer takes public responsibility for the violence that is bound up with its practice," (9). loosening of punishment's hold on the body: with torture, pain is applied to the body directly and publicly. With the disciplinary society of the 19th century forward, the body still feels pain, but it is no longer the object of pain but the medium through which pain is applied as a corrective measure to something else - the soul. "Far from being an art of unbearable sensations, punishment has become an economy of suspended rights," (11). Of course, physical pain accompanies incarceration, but it is transformed in its purpose and object: "There remains, therefore, a trace of 'torture' [supplice] in the modern mechanisms of criminal justice - a trace that has not been entirely overcome, but which is enveloped, increasingly, by the non-corporeal nature of the penal system." (16) What is punished in the 19th century is not the body but the soul. A "substitution of objects" takes place - the idea of crime has changed fundamentally. Crime, the object of concern in the penal system, has profoundly changed in quality. We no longer punish criminal activity. We now punish criminal personalities and souls rather than behavior. Our judgment is not on the act but on the quality of person who commits the act. Our punishments teach us a lesson about who we are and about who the criminal is. "the sentence that condemns or acquits is not simply a judgement of guilt, a legal decision that lays down punishment; it bears within it an assessment of normality and a technical prescription for a possible normalization," (20-1). Foucault also notes the incorporation of medical and therapeutic discourses of the human sciences into criminal justice discourse. The law incorporates these discursive formations into criminal justice to remove human accountability from the process of judicial decisionmaking. Punishment becomes a function of the social machine rather than an action carried out by individuals against other individuals. This process tends both to give a scientific and rationalistic legitimacy to punishment as well as to make punishment (and its particular form) seem like something inevitable and unchangeable. Foucault's "genealogical methodology": situate "repression" and "punishment" within larger sociopolitical contexts. Punishment is treated as one phenomenon within a complex social function, a series of discourses about punishment and crime. punitive methods are analyzed as specific techniques of a general strategy. That general strategy is the exercise of power. Punishment is seen as one method of exercising power. Punishment is thus a political tactic; like war it is one way of exercising power. For Foucault, punishment and war belong to the same general discursive formation. look at the common matrix among discourses which are not normally considered coextensive -- e.g. punishment and war, or punishment and the human sciences. Penal law and human science are not different discourses that just happen to intersect; for Foucault they are manifestations of the same underlying discursive formation -- an "epistemologico-juridical" formation. Investigate whether the entrance of the soul into the terrain of criminal justice is not "the effect of a transformation of the way in which the body itself is invested by power relations," (24). Overall, Foucault argues that we must look at punishment with cognizance of its concrete (and positive) social functions. It is not just a way to prevent crime (negative); it is also a positive system that produces social effects which are desired by the social body. The individual body, Foucault posits, is invested with political power; it is the object of a complex of political repressions, tortures, markings, etc. What is more, these investments are symbolic. The body is forced to "emit signs," (25). The subjection of the body to pain is a means of making the body speak, just like a red "A" or a yellow star of David. The techniques of power - violence applied directly to the body, interrogation, arrest, detention, internment, etc. - may be coherent in their results. But the application of these techniques is disparate and pervasive - it cannot be localized in the state, the private sector, the church, the school, etc. Apparatus and institutions such as these all distribute the exercise of power -- they operate what Foucault calls a microphysics of power. Such a microphysical study of power requires a new understanding of power: Power is not a property but rather a strategy. It is not something people have or possess. It is a mode of operation - a matter of technique, tactics, maneuvers, etc. The model of power relations is a "perpetual battle" - power relations are constantly in motion and in flux. Power is exercised rather than possessed. power is not purely negative. Those who are dominated are not repressed or without power. In fact, power "invests them; it is transmitted by them and through them; it exerts pressure upon them, just as they themselves, in their struggle against it, resist the grip it has on them," (27). Power produces. power relations are "not univocal." They exist in myriad webs of the exercise of power, from the interactions in the supermarket or parking lot to the police station. Power says many different things; it is not a simple matter to "overthrow" it. Also, power relations cannot be localized in the state or in the police - power acts through us all. relation of power to knowledge: "power produces knowledge ... power and knowledge directly imply one another; ... there is no power relation without the correlative constitution of a field of knowledge, nor any knowledge that does not presuppose and constitute at the same time power relations." (27) Foucault's project, in the end, is a genealogy of the modern soul. The "soul" is understood not as a religious, ideological, or metaphysical myth, but rather as the "present correlative of a certain technology of power over the body," (29). The soul is understood materially as a product of penological discourse. "This real, non-corporal soul is not a substance; it is the element in which are articulated the effects of a certain type of power and the reference of a certain type of knowledge, the machinery by which the power relations give rise to a possible corpus of knowledge, and knowledge extends and reinforces the effects of this power.... The soul is the effect and instrument of a political anatomy; the soul is the prison of the body," (29-30). From petro at bounty.org Thu Jul 5 21:13:00 2001 From: petro at bounty.org (petro) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 21:13:00 -0700 Subject: Kyllo: Taking the 5th on the 4th In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010704202956.00808880@pop.sprynet.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010703104644.04464fc0@pop3.lvcm.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20010703104644.04464fc0@pop3.lvcm.com> <3.0.6.32.20010704202956.00808880@pop.sprynet.com> Message-ID: >At 06:44 PM 7/3/01 -0700, petro wrote: >>>Although the ruling only appears to apply to one's home it does >>>raise questions whether citizens may have the right to prevent their >>>observation while in public. After all one is permitted tinted >>>windows on autos. Despite certain >> >> Not everywhere, and even then not all windows. > >Forget windows. Noone tells bimbos to remove wigs, facepaint, sunglasses, >gloves, various subdermal implants. You can, of course, *observe* them, but >you can't force them to reveal (flash to Planet of the Apes sequel) their >*true face*. But they, you usually don't want to. It is however a more accurate analogy. -- http://www.apa.org/journals/psp/psp7761121.html It is one of the essential features of such incompetence that the person so afflicted is incapable of knowing that he is incompetent. To have such knowledge would already be to remedy a good portion of the offense. From petro at bounty.org Thu Jul 5 21:33:00 2001 From: petro at bounty.org (petro) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 21:33:00 -0700 Subject: Most of a nation on probation? Message-ID: >On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, petro pulled this right out of his ass... > >> The disparity in numbers is largely due to the way we treat >> the mentally ill. "They" (Russia, and most of europe) don't count the >> numbers of people forcebly institutionalized for "mental illness" as >> part of their prisoner counts, and here in the US the government >> *usually* doesn't forcibly institutionalize someone until after >> they've committed a crime, or at least been convicted of a crime of >> some sort, whether it really should be a crime. > >Total, unequivocal bullshit. You have anything to back up these absurd >statements? > >(1) "Forcibly institutionalized" patients are *NOT* [legally] "prisoners", >and therefore are not included in prisoner counts. Obviously, this >statement excludes those persons committed to institutions by a court as >"unfit to stand trial" - a microscopic percentage of the >"patient" population in the U.S. > >(2) The "2-P.C." [2 Psychiatrist Committal] laws do NOT apply to someone >*after* they have committed a crime. After they commit a crime, they are >under the jurisdiction of a *court*, and they are no longer patients (and >only _patients_ get 2-P.C.'d). > Funny, you are accusing me of saying pretty much what you just said. Hmmm... Let me try to repeat myself is a way you might be able to understand it. In this country we *DO NOT INSTUTIONALIZE* many of our "mentally ill" like they do in other countries (Russia, Europe) Nor do we count those who are as "prisoners" (which many other countries do). What happens then is that a *significant number* of these mentally ill people commit crimes *FOR WHICH THEY ARE LOCKED UP AS CRIMINALS*. In otherwords, the numbers are skewed because we tend not to institutionalize people until the actually *DO* something (even if that something is "self-medicating" using non-prescription drugs) that violates the law. >(3) The 2.P.C. laws are in EVERY state specifically allow for, and in >fact, REQUIRE, that a person be involuntarily committed if "they present >an immenent danger to themselves or others". This is clearly not the same >as "have committed a crime". And those committals are often of a very short nature--most often 72 hours being the limit w/out an inquiry, usually leading to some sort of outpatient care (at least in the time I worked for a hospital with a large government funded mental institution attached), which puts the person back out on the street where they take their meds, or not, leading to... The claim I am making is simply that comparing criminal incarceration rates across countries is not valid unless you account for many other factors, such as (in this case) the way those societies/cultures deal with their mentally ill. We deal with ours by *giving them* the choice (modulo "imminent danger to themselves or others") of getting treatment or not, and if they choose not and break the law they are criminals and are dealt with accordingly. Many other countries don't give the mentally ill person the latitude of that choice. > First you claim that "nobody has ever survived a shot to the head >with a .32", and now *this* -- Where do you get this shit from??? My information is from some who has a professional interest in prison systems, and has studied them at length, as well as a bit of reading on my own. -- http://www.apa.org/journals/psp/psp7761121.html It is one of the essential features of such incompetence that the person so afflicted is incapable of knowing that he is incompetent. To have such knowledge would already be to remedy a good portion of the offense. From petro at bounty.org Thu Jul 5 21:40:00 2001 From: petro at bounty.org (petro) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 21:40:00 -0700 Subject: Tampa using cameras to scan for wanted faces-- In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mr. May: >One of the interesting things is that _ear shape_ is one of the best >correlation features. > >Of course, to measure ear shape the camera has to have a good view, >unobscured and at close enough range to get a decent number of >pixels. (This makes sense, that ear shape would be a good metric. >I've been noticing the variations in ear shapes since I heard about >this scheme. Also, I can imagine the various conformal >transformations--different angles of view, for example--preserve >certain relationships well.) Hmmm... Maybe it's time to market a line of Privacy Ear Jewelry. Shouldn't be hard with a couple piercing here, and some funny lumps there to distort the profile enough. -- http://www.apa.org/journals/psp/psp7761121.html It is one of the essential features of such incompetence that the person so afflicted is incapable of knowing that he is incompetent. To have such knowledge would already be to remedy a good portion of the offense. From enenkio at webtv.net Fri Jul 6 01:33:34 2001 From: enenkio at webtv.net (Robert Moore) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 22:33:34 -1000 (HST) Subject: STOP UNITED STATES LIES, FRAUD AND DIS-INFORMATION www.enenkio.org Message-ID: <28162-3B4577DE-79@storefull-613.iap.bryant.webtv.net> - Present Status - EnenKio is a sovereign state The government of the Kingdom of EnenKio was established in 1994 under authority and by direction of Head of State and the hereditary Iroijlaplap (Paramount Chief) of the Northern Ratak atolls of the Marshall Islands. The Constitution of EnenKio established and set forth the authority and responsibility of the government and established duties and succession protocol of the Monarch and Royal Family. EnenKio is a Limited Constitutional Monarchy. Representative citizens, acting as Founding Fathers, ratified the Constitution, recognized His Majesty King Murjel Hermios as Head of State, affirmed their resolve in the Declaration of Sovereignty and determined the boundaries of the new Kingdom of EnenKio. Notice that EnenKio was a new sovereign state was sent to representatives of the Republic of the Marshall islands, United States, United Nations General Assembly, UN Security Council, South Pacific Commission, NATO, world media, Pacific Island nations and other nations. Legal action was then taken to set forth the claim against the foreign occupational forces of the United States, which failed to ever answer any actions and now stands in default with respect to demands for compensation and for illegally occupying of the king's ancestral lands. The effect of legal demands filed in U.S. federal court, unanswered complaints and failure to reply now have the force of law in commerce, under national and international laws and conventions. EnenKio is an "offshore haven for criminals and money launderers" Actually, the United States did reply not directly to EnenKio, but with an insidious merciless campaign of disinformation broadly dispersed across the Internet and to its trading partners. One glaring example is a U.S. Department of State Report which compares EnenKio to the likes of Thailand, Colombia and Russia under the topic of "Money Laundering and Financial Crimes". This official report International Narcotics Control Strategy, 1998 categorizes EnenKio as an Offshore Financial Center. This is a curious label as EnenKio has no bank, no financial center and no money to launder. It goes on to refer to another state and "Enenkio" (sic) as "...mere figments of fertile imaginations...", and as "...entirely fraudulent in intent and practice." The United States offers NO proof nor is it known to have ever found any. In fact, in February 2001, the Securities & Exchange Commission, together with other federal agencies of the United States, concluded an exhaustive investigation that failed to turn up even one shred (or hanging chad) of evidence of impropriety in intent or practice. EnenKio exists "only in cyberspace" Such a claim might be made for Yahoo, Windows Magazine or any number of "dot.coms". Why, the United States itself claims over 25,000 web sites hosting millions of pages. Is this not a criteria for existence in cyberspace? EnenKio as a state has its roots in a 1987 document, but really, it is founded upon more than 2000 years of historical lineage preceding the ascendancy of the Hermios Marshallese family to their rightful, recognized traditional post. The EnenKio web site did not appear until 1998. It is a mystery how any reasonable person could examine the few dozens of posted documents, laws and letters thousands of pages are not posted and then say: EnenKio exists only in cyberspace. Today's Challenge for Tomorrow's Future Every avenue is being explored to raise capital for projects described in the development plan. Bond, stamp and shipbuilding programs have commenced. Applications are invited for passports, business licenses and ship registration. For those qualified individuals who wish to join this effort or encourage us to gain recognition among states of the first order, we have a need for Consuls and Diplomatic representatives in foreign offices, Trade Missions and other diplomatic posts. Additional human resources and people knowledgeable in international policy, diplomatic protocol, spaceport and aircraft operations, telecommunications, shipping, manufacturing, chemical engineering and a host of other disciplines will be required to design and attract development projects and implement envisioned programs. Contractual arrangements for professional consultation and services in law, finance, commerce, economics and others are being actively sought. All who have an interest and are so moved, you are encouraged to submit a Personal Involvement form. By submitting the form, you will be advised of the latest developments, provided an outline of needs and may at some point be invited to actively participate in development and promotion of EnenKio and to become a citizen of the fledgling nation. Salutation On behalf of the Second Monarch, His Majesty King Remios Hermios, His Royal Highness Crown Prince Lobadreo Hermios and all representatives and citizens of EnenKio, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs sincerely acknowledges your involvement, interest, prayers and support. See also: Political Status Under Illegal Occupation by the United States Robert Moore, Minister Plenipotentiary, Kingdom of EnenKio Foreign Trade Mission DO-MO-CO Manager, Remios Hermios Eleemosynary Trust, Majuro, Marshall Islands http://www.enenkio.org From decoy at iki.fi Thu Jul 5 12:56:22 2001 From: decoy at iki.fi (Sampo Syreeni) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 22:56:22 +0300 (EEST) Subject: Meatspace anonymity manual In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, Anonymous Coredump wrote: >THE BLACK "BLOC" The whole idea of a Black Bloc is that people wear all >black, and stay in a tight formation. If people don't stay in formation, >and wander around with large gaps in-between, well, that's not a black >bloc, that's a march of anarchists wearing black. Now, let me get this straight...anarchists whose primary display of ideology is to stay in tight formation? I understand that anarchy does not imply lack of organization...but formations? Sheesh. Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy, mailto:decoy at iki.fi, gsm: +358-50-5756111 student/math+cs/helsinki university, http://www.iki.fi/~decoy/front From decoy at iki.fi Thu Jul 5 12:56:22 2001 From: decoy at iki.fi (Sampo Syreeni) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 22:56:22 +0300 (EEST) Subject: Meatspace anonymity manual In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, Anonymous Coredump wrote: >THE BLACK "BLOC" The whole idea of a Black Bloc is that people wear all >black, and stay in a tight formation. If people don't stay in formation, >and wander around with large gaps in-between, well, that's not a black >bloc, that's a march of anarchists wearing black. Now, let me get this straight...anarchists whose primary display of ideology is to stay in tight formation? I understand that anarchy does not imply lack of organization...but formations? Sheesh. Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy, mailto:decoy at iki.fi, gsm: +358-50-5756111 student/math+cs/helsinki university, http://www.iki.fi/~decoy/front From aimee.farr at pobox.com Thu Jul 5 21:01:36 2001 From: aimee.farr at pobox.com (Aimee Farr) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 23:01:36 -0500 Subject: Most of a nation on probation? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Faustine wrote: > You know as well as I do that labeling someone "potentially violent" is a > quick and easy way to take away their rights. For that reason alone, not > caring about the rights of "violent offenders" seems like the first step > along a slippery slope into full-blown authoritarianism. http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/2001/07/01/stinwenws01028.html July 1 2001 BRITAIN New police unit will spy on would-be killers > It is easy to see the spectacular punishments of old described by > Foucault > in the beginning of this section as a means of persuasion. The > emphasis on > publicity and on visibility shows clearly that the goal of > punishment is to > persuade society through spectacle. Modern forms of punishment still > function persuasively, but somewhat differently, as the spectacle has > disappeared from public view, and punishment has become a more pervasive > and less overtly performative affair. We have moved beyond surveillance as a criminal deterrent to surveillance as punishment. The Yoke in the Ye Ole' Commons. Sexual offender registration, et. al. A private company has started an email service to notify you when an offender moves into your area. In contrast to your author, I think you would agree that we are incorporating the criminal "spectacle," and an "overtly performative affair" in various contexts. Many of these designs go beyond the necessities of criminal monitoring and restraint. See also: http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,3-2001230213,00.html WEDNESDAY JULY 04 2001 Frenzied mob hacks 300 'witches' to death ("June is sorcerer elimination month.") > What is punished in the 19th century is not the body but the soul. > A "substitution of objects" takes place - the idea of crime has changed > fundamentally. Crime, the object of concern in the penal system, has > profoundly changed in quality. We no longer punish criminal activity. We > now punish criminal personalities and souls rather than behavior. Tim's comment about facial recognition ("Smart CCTV" on the signage) being a social mindgame does bring to mind predictions of a surveillance caste system and real-space criminal "blocks" or enclaves (i.e. Escape From New York). "We're watching you" = "Don't come here," pragmatically forcing undesirables outside legitimate transactional and social systems. ~Aimee From decoy at iki.fi Thu Jul 5 13:05:33 2001 From: decoy at iki.fi (Sampo Syreeni) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 23:05:33 +0300 (EEST) Subject: Most of a nation on probation? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, Sandy Sandfort wrote: >> Anyone who can be safely paroled, should probably not have been >> convicted. > >I don't see how that follows, but in any case, it is irrelevant to my >point, that from the individual's point of view, parole is better than >incarceration. The difference is that most of the people around here seem to be arguing from the societal point of view. (Cheap) parole, even if sheer bliss for the felon, is a bad thing when thought about with due respect to what it does to whole communities. Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy, mailto:decoy at iki.fi, gsm: +358-50-5756111 student/math+cs/helsinki university, http://www.iki.fi/~decoy/front From smbasche at execpc.com Thu Jul 5 21:25:25 2001 From: smbasche at execpc.com (Stephen Basche) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 23:25:25 -0500 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <000a01c105d3$aedf6980$65cecfa9@execpc.com> This a complete and total violation of second amendment rights. THIS SHIT WILL END SOON!!! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 391 bytes Desc: not available URL: From craig at red-bean.com Thu Jul 5 22:26:30 2001 From: craig at red-bean.com (Craig Brozefsky) Date: 06 Jul 2001 00:26:30 -0500 Subject: Meatspace anonymity manual In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <874rsq8w6x.fsf@piracy.red-bean.com> Sampo Syreeni writes: > On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, Anonymous Coredump wrote: > > >THE BLACK "BLOC" The whole idea of a Black Bloc is that people wear all > >black, and stay in a tight formation. If people don't stay in formation, > >and wander around with large gaps in-between, well, that's not a black > >bloc, that's a march of anarchists wearing black. > > Now, let me get this straight...anarchists whose primary display of ideology > is to stay in tight formation? I understand that anarchy does not imply lack > of organization...but formations? Sheesh. So are you being sarcastic or are you really failing to understand that Black Blocs are a short-term tactic for possibly illegal operations on the street in an environment full of police, and not some demonstrative symbol of anarchist philosophy representing their vision of society? -- Craig Brozefsky http://www.red-bean.com/~craig "Indifference is the dead weight of history." -- Antonio Gramsci From adsl at webko.it Fri Jul 6 01:10:28 2001 From: adsl at webko.it (adsl at webko.it) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 01:10:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: un portatile in omaggio Message-ID: <200107060810.BAA14243@toad.com> possibile navigare con una velocit嚙 10 volte ISDN con un portatile in omaggio ? www.webko.it/adsl Webko Italia Net Verona From amaha at vsnl.net Thu Jul 5 12:59:47 2001 From: amaha at vsnl.net (Fountain Of Joy) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 01:29:47 +0530 (IST) Subject: Thought-A-Day Message-ID: <20010705195947.1796E1BCAA@mmb1.vsnl.net.in> Prayer is the most powerful form of energy one can generate.Prayer is a force as real as terrestrial gravity. It supplies us with a flow of sustaining power in our daily lives. --Alexis Carrel,French Nobel Prize Winner ************************************************************************************** Your name has been recommended to receive thoughts of wisdom from Fountain of Joy. These thoughts will be delivered, free of cost, to your desktop,everyday, for an initial evaluation period. We believe that the meaningful insights of these carefully selected thoughts will make your life peaceful,successful & happy in a way you had never imagined before. However, if you desire to unsubscribe, reply to this email with 'remove' in the subject line. Director, Fountain of Joy (Non-religious Organisation) From cofor_d at wanadoo.es Thu Jul 5 17:17:27 2001 From: cofor_d at wanadoo.es (COFOR) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 02:17:27 +0200 Subject: TE INFORMAMOS Message-ID: <200107081300.f68D05E05704@ak47.algebra.com> Jacarilla 8.7.2001.Publicidad/Ense簽anza a Distancia Hola que tal: El motivo de la presente carta es informarte de la posibilidad de poder realizar alg繳n curso a distancia de tu inter矇s, cursos relacionados con tu trabajo inquietudes y ocio.ect.El conocimiento es el mayor patrimonio de que podemos disponer. Nos dedicamos desde 1996.a impartir cursos a distancia disponemos de una amplia variedad de cursos sencillos para poder seguirlos comodamente desde cualquier parte del mundo y a unos precios muy competitivos. NET ------------ Comercio Electr籀nico Redes y Sistemas Sistemas Servers Dise簽o Web Direccion Empresa Net Management Bussines BUSINESS ------------ Gestor Comercial y Marketing Marketing Mix Relaciones Publicas Direcci籀n Planificaci籀n de Empresa Recursos Humanos Comercio Exterior Direccion Comercial Gesti籀n Medio Ambiental Control de Calidad Management Bussines Direcci籀n de Restaurantes ---------------------------------- SALUD SUPERACION PERSONAL ------------------------------------- Superaci籀n de Estr矇s Psicoterapia Diet矇tica y Nutrici籀n Dieta Mediterr獺nea Nutr穩 terapia y Salud Nutrici籀n y Deporte Cocina Sana Monitor Aer籀bic-Fittnes Monitor Yoga Tai-Chi Hipnoterapia Quiromasaje y Reflexoterapia Aromaterapia Cosm矇tica Natural Hierbas Medicinales -------------------------------------- Los cursos son de 200.horas lectivas el precio standar por curso es de 35.000.pts.Espa簽a a plazos.Iberoamerica 150.usa dolar aplazados. 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From adsl at webko.it Fri Jul 6 01:10:25 2001 From: adsl at webko.it (adsl at webko.it) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 03:10:25 -0500 Subject: un portatile in omaggio Message-ID: <200107060810.f668APx23246@ak47.algebra.com> possibile navigare con una velocit嚙 10 volte ISDN con un portatile in omaggio ? www.webko.it/adsl Webko Italia Net Verona From adsl at webko.it Fri Jul 6 01:14:37 2001 From: adsl at webko.it (adsl at webko.it) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 03:14:37 -0500 Subject: un portatile in omaggio Message-ID: <200107060814.DAA31417@einstein.ssz.com> possibile navigare con una velocit嚙 10 volte ISDN con un portatile in omaggio ? www.webko.it/adsl Webko Italia Net Verona From adsl at webko.it Fri Jul 6 04:03:02 2001 From: adsl at webko.it (adsl at webko.it) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 04:03:02 -0700 Subject: un portatile in omaggio Message-ID: <200107061103.f66B31j25236@rigel.cyberpass.net> possibile navigare con una velocit嚙 10 volte ISDN con un portatile in omaggio ? www.webko.it/adsl Webko Italia Net Verona From YourMembership2 at AEOpublishing.com Fri Jul 6 01:56:53 2001 From: YourMembership2 at AEOpublishing.com ('Your Membership' Editor) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 04:56:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Your Membership Community & Commentary, 07-06-01 Message-ID: <20010706085653.170AAE37E2@rovdb001.roving.com> Your Membership Community & Commentary (July 6, 2001) It's All About Making Money Information to provide you with the absolute
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Persistence and personality.

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Clearly, it is not. It's not unknown. It's not unattainable.
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One thing that "gets to me" so often in my work as an
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Long-time friend and business associate Rick Beneteau
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http://www.roibot.com/bybb.cgi?IM7517_bybtb .
But, the reason I mention this is the fact that he talks
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And, yes, Rick & I come from the same school of
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Read his ebook & you'll see more of what I'm saying.

The matter at hand is that brick wall you might have
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What I'm telling you is, the only thing standing between
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Comments:
----------------------------
Our web site is initially designed to get leads, build branding, and provide information.......with a 12 month goal of selling our service more specifically via a shopping cart. We offer a service and at this time take deposits and payments via our site. Our site has been up less than 2 months and our expectation was that we would refer to our site for leads developed in traditional media and by referral for more information, and to make a professional impression on someone you may not meet before providing service. The growth of our customer base shopping on line has grown outside of anyone's expectations.......certainly mine and I've been in this business for 25 years. The Internet is not dead in the horse business, it is just getting it's legs, and the folks using it want to get all the ancillary services on-line as well. Our site (the first we've developed) has exceeded our expectations, and we aren't satisfied with it yet.......we just wanted to get it there for information!
Jeff and Rebecca Marks http://www.grand-champion.com

-------------------------------------------------
Branding. While quality customer service and product have been and will always be our top priority brand building Zesto is our most challenging task.
Zesto.com ranks very high and most often #1 or 2 on all major search engines and directories even Yahoo entering the keyword zesto. The problem is simply that,who if anyone would type the keyword zesto, therefore we must try to build our brand by ensuring that generic keywords associated with our products (citrus peel) are used throughout our site as well as search engine submissions.
Fortunately owning a non generic domain short, easy to remember and trademarked works in our favor because the marketability potential is limitless.
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Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 22864 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Waziri.ahmed at rigel.cyberpass.net Fri Jul 6 07:20:29 2001 From: Waziri.ahmed at rigel.cyberpass.net (Waziri.ahmed at rigel.cyberpass.net) Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 07:20:29 Subject: urgent Message-ID: <200107060812.f668Cpj19801@rigel.cyberpass.net> THE DIRECTOR WAZIRI AHMED ESQ. AHMED & ASSOCIATES BOOK SHOP BUILDING, 11TH FLOOR 23 BROAD STREET, LAGOS - NIGERIA fax 234 1 7596610 SIR, I AM WAZIRI AHMED ESQ (SAN) SENIOR PARTNER OF AHMED & ASSOCIATES LAW CHAMBERS, A LAWYER/ATTORNEY TO HAMZA AL MUSTAPHA WHO WAS THE FORMER CHIEF SECURITY OFFICER TO THE MILITARY DICTATOR OF NIGERIA, GENERAL SANI ABACHA. THE LATE GENERAL SANI ABACHA DIED UNEXPECTEDLY ON THE 8TH OF JUNE 1998. HIS COLLEAGUES IN THE ARMY POISONED HIM IN THE PRESIDENTIAL VILLA (ASOROCK) BECAUSE HE RULED NIGERIA WITH AN IRON HAND AND HE DID NOT WANT DEMOCRACY IN THE COUNTRY. WITH THE DEATH OF THE DICTATOR, ELECTIONS WERE HELD IN THE COUNTRY AND A CIVILIAN ADMINISTRATION WAS SWORN INTO POWER. WITH THE ADVENT OF THE NEW CIVILIAN ADMINISTRATION, A DECISION WAS TAKEN BY THE PRESIDENT OF NIGERIA TO PROBE AND PROSECUTE ALL MILITARY OFFICERS THAT SERVED IN THE LAST MILITARY REGIME OF THE LATE GENERAL SANI ABACHA. MY CLIENT, MAJOR HAMZA AL MUSTAPHA WAS SINGLED OUT BY THE GOVERNMENT OF THE DAY AS AN ARMY OFFICER THAT MUST BE PUNISHED BECAUSE OF HIS CLOSENESS TO THE LATE DICTATOR AND GROSS HUMAN RIGHT ABUSES ON THE CITIZENS OF NIGERIA. MY CLIENT AND I WERE BEST OF FRIENDS AND HE SHARED HIS SECRETS WITH ME. THE FORMER CHIEF SECURITY OFFICER TO THE LATE HEAD OF STATE MAJOR HAMZA AL MUSTAPHA HAD PRIVATE ACCOUNTS THAT ARE WORTH 100 MILLION UNITED STATES DOLLARS AROUND THE WORLD. PRESENTLY HE HAS BEEN ARRESTED BY THE GOVERNMENT OF THE DAY AND IS PRESENTLY IN PRISON WAITING TO BE TAKEN TO COURT ON CHARGES OF GROSS HUMAN RIGHT ABUSES ON THE CITIZENS OF NIGERIA. I WAS DIRECTLY INFORMED BY MY CONTACTS AT THE PRESIDENTIAL VILLA, THAT HE WILL BE CONVICTED BECAUSE OF HIS POSITION AS THE FORMER CHIEF SECURITY OFFICER TO THE LATE DICTATOR. SHORTLY BEFORE THE PRESENT GOVERNMENT ARRESTED MY CLIENT, HE ENTRUSTED TO ME THE SUM OF TWENTY -SIX MILLION, FOUR HUNDRED THOUSAND UNITED STATES DOLLARS (us$26,400,000.00) FOR SAFEKEEPING. THIS AMOUNT WAS TO BE SENT TO HIS MISTRESS IN LEBANON TO LAUNDER FOR HIM. I HAVE SINCE HAD THIS AMOUNT WITH ME STASHED AWAY A PRIVATE SECURITY COMPANY IN NIGERIA. I CANNOT SEND THIS MONEY TO MY CLEINT'S MISTRESS ANY MORE BECAUSE OF THE SITUATION OF THINGS OVER HERE. AS A RESULT OF THIS I HAVE BEEN MANDATED BY MY CLIENT TO SOLICIT FOR A PARTNER ABROAD WHO IS WILLING AND READY TO ASSIST IN RECEIVING THE $26.4 MILLION. THEREFORE, I NEED YOUR ASSISTANCE IN MOVING AND SECURING THIS MONEY IN YOUR ACCOUNT ABROAD. YOU WILL BE ADEQUATELY COMPENSATED WITH 15% OF THE TOTAL SUM FOR YOUR ASSISTANCE AND CO-OPERATION WITH ME TO MOVE THIS FUNDS OUT OF THE COUNTRY. I INTEND TO SAFEGUARD AND INVEST THIS AMOUNT OF MONEY ABROAD WITH A RELIABLE FOREIGN BUSINESS PARTNER SO THAT WE CAN INVEST THE FUNDS IN REAL ESTATE BUSINESS OR ANY VIABLE BUSINESS IN YOUR COUNTRY. THAT IS WHY I AM SOLICITING YOUR ASSISTANCE AND COOPERATION AS REGARDS THIS BUSINESS. ARRANGEMENTS HAVE BEEN CONCLUDED WITH A SECURITY COMPANY IN EUROPE TO RECEIVE THE MONEY IN CASH DEPENDING ON WHERE IS CONVENIENT FOR YOU. PLEASE INDICATE YOUR WILLINGNESS TO ASSIST US. I AM WAITING TO HEAR FROM YOU VERY SOON. BEST REGARDS, WAZIRI AHMED From bear at sonic.net Fri Jul 6 08:55:01 2001 From: bear at sonic.net (Ray Dillinger) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 08:55:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Most of a nation on probation? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, Aimee Farr wrote: >Tim's comment about facial recognition ("Smart CCTV" on the signage) being a >social mindgame does bring to mind predictions of a surveillance caste >system and real-space criminal "blocks" or enclaves (i.e. Escape From New >York). "We're watching you" = "Don't come here," pragmatically forcing >undesirables outside legitimate transactional and social systems. Right. Between all the "offender databases" and "surveillance for your (cough) protection" and so on, anyone who's got a record winds up so completely frozen out of normal society that it becomes impossible for them to get by without continuing as a part of criminal society. It's the twenty-first century. Nobody cares if you go straight anymore.... Bear From bear at sonic.net Fri Jul 6 08:59:25 2001 From: bear at sonic.net (Ray Dillinger) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 08:59:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Independent News - Human cloning 'will never be safe' In-Reply-To: <3B45CC4A.25CFF69F@ssz.com> Message-ID: Human cloning will never be safe, but then neither will natural childbirth. Nor just being alive, for that matter. Bear From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Fri Jul 6 07:22:06 2001 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 09:22:06 -0500 Subject: Slashdot | Bringing Quantum Chips To The Assembly Line Message-ID: <3B45C98E.C91826E7@ssz.com> http://slashdot.org/articles/01/07/06/122246.shtml -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Fri Jul 6 07:23:10 2001 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 09:23:10 -0500 Subject: Slashdot | Starship Troopers: Exoskeletons and Translators Message-ID: <3B45C9CE.FFC7404A@ssz.com> http://slashdot.org/articles/01/07/06/010217.shtml -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Fri Jul 6 07:29:09 2001 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 09:29:09 -0500 Subject: The Register - Phoenix BIOS phone-home questions addressed Message-ID: <3B45CB35.1459A43A@ssz.com> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/20226.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Fri Jul 6 07:33:46 2001 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 09:33:46 -0500 Subject: Independent News - Human cloning 'will never be safe' Message-ID: <3B45CC4A.25CFF69F@ssz.com> http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/science/story.jsp?story=82064 -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jd at fbi.gov Fri Jul 6 09:35:12 2001 From: jd at fbi.gov (John Doe #2) Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 09:35:12 -0700 Subject: chilling speech Message-ID: <3B45E8C0.22910A8D@fbi.gov> http://www.calendarlive.com/top/1,1419,L-LATimes-TV-X!ArticleDetail-37671,00.html contains an article "After FCC Indecency Cases, Stations Are Playing It Safe" which describes the chilling effect of fed fines for thoughtcrimes on fed-licensed private corporations. WASHINGTON--Sure, they're concerned about a pair of recent cases in which the Federal Communications Commission fined radio stations for playing allegedly indecent songs. But radio executives in Los Angeles believe they're taking enough precautions to avoid trouble. From Results at TVEyes.com Fri Jul 6 06:39:28 2001 From: Results at TVEyes.com (Results at TVEyes.com) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 09:39:28 -0400 Subject: crypto Message-ID: <59EBFD05352BD411B71600D0B74739D101B9582D@maileyes.tveyes.com> Your keyword(s), crypto, was recently spoken on WNBC during Today. Friday, Jul 6 2001 at 09:39 AM ......bacteria are becoming immune to typical treatments like chlorine chlorine you need to protect yourself from those like crypto if you have a vulnerable person ...... For details, visit http://www.TVEyes.com/database/expand.asp?ln=3422958&Key=crypto Just follow the above link to keep your account active for this keyword. For total control of your keywords, go to http://www.tveyes.com/log_in.asp Marriott and Renaissance Hotels Help You Stay Connected: By 2001 almost every room will have high-speed internet service powered by AT&T. This means you will have 50 times faster-than-typical Internet connection from the comfort of your room. And you get a full day of Internet access for one low price. Click here to make your reservation and stay connected! http://by.advertising.com/1/c/23066/9974//13882 AOL users click here From ptrei at rsasecurity.com Fri Jul 6 06:43:00 2001 From: ptrei at rsasecurity.com (Trei, Peter) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 09:43:00 -0400 Subject: Tampa using cameras to scan for wanted faces-- Message-ID: > From: petro[SMTP:petro at bounty.org] > > Mr. May: > > >One of the interesting things is that _ear shape_ is one of the best > >correlation features. > > Hmmm... > > Maybe it's time to market a line of Privacy Ear Jewelry. > Shouldn't be hard with a couple piercing here, and some funny lumps > there to distort the profile enough. > Or just return to 70's hair styles. Peter Trei From ptrei at rsasecurity.com Fri Jul 6 06:43:00 2001 From: ptrei at rsasecurity.com (Trei, Peter) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 09:43:00 -0400 Subject: Tampa using cameras to scan for wanted faces-- Message-ID: > From: petro[SMTP:petro at bounty.org] > > Mr. May: > > >One of the interesting things is that _ear shape_ is one of the best > >correlation features. > > Hmmm... > > Maybe it's time to market a line of Privacy Ear Jewelry. > Shouldn't be hard with a couple piercing here, and some funny lumps > there to distort the profile enough. > Or just return to 70's hair styles. Peter Trei From declan at well.com Fri Jul 6 07:08:39 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 10:08:39 -0400 Subject: Feds give $30 million to states to create special "drug courts" Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010706100726.00a8dd80@mail.well.com> Next up: "software piracy courts" COMMUNITIES NATIONWIDE RECEIVE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT FUNDS FOR DRUG COURTS 繚 Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 10:00:09 -0400 繚 Subject: COMMUNITIES NATIONWIDE RECEIVE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT FUNDS FOR DRUG COURTS 繚 From: "Biber, Kathryn" DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE-AG FRIDAY, JULY 6, 2001 (202) 616-2777 WWW.USDOJ.GOV COMMUNITIES NATIONWIDE RECEIVE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT FUNDS FOR DRUG COURTS WASHINGTON, DC - Attorney General John Ashcroft announced today, $30.9 million to plan, establish, or improve drug courts for nonviolent offenders with drug problems. Eighty-nine jurisdictions in 38 states and territories will receive grants. (See attachment) The announcement comes at the request of President Bush, who pledged in May to increase funding to fight drug addiction through several programs, including drug courts. "Drug courts help communities by managing offenders' behavior and breaking the cycle of drug addiction and crime," said Attorney General Ashcroft. "Drug court judges are actively involved in holding substance-abusing offenders accountable while helping to rehabilitate them and reduce recidivism." Fifty-five jurisdictions will receive grants ranging from $166,000 up to $500,000 to implement new drug courts. Twenty courts will receive grants ranging from $31,222 up to $300,000 to enhance their existing programs or to support statewide drug court activity. Another 14 tribal jurisdictions will receive up to $30,000 to plan drug courts. Since 1995, the Justice Department's Drug Courts Program Office (DCPO) has made approximately 650 grants totaling more than $125 million. Nearly 700 drug courts are operating in the United States and more than 430 are being planned. All 50 states have drug courts in operation or in the planning stages. Thirty-two states have passed legislation supporting drug courts and six more are introducing legislation. The drug court concept has also expanded to juvenile and family drug courts, DUI/DWI and tribal courts. According to the Drug Court Clearinghouse at American University, more than 73,000 adults and 1,500 teens have graduated from drug court programs. Recidivism rates continue to drop for graduates, with rates reported by drug courts ranging from 2 to 20 percent. Also, in Portland, Oregon, it was found that for every $1 spent on a drug court, $2.50 is saved in standard criminal justice system costs, and when estimating broader cost savings, such as victimization and theft costs, $10 is saved. In addition to awarding grant funding, DCPO provides training on planning adult, juvenile or family drug courts. In FY 2001, DCPO expanded its training programs by nearly 300 percent to train more than 200 communities. From 1995 through 2000, 446 communities received planning support and have completed the training programs. Of these communities, 76 percent have implemented a drug court. DCPO expects to provide training to about 150 communities in FY 2002. Drug court participants must take frequent drug tests and meet regularly with their judges. Drug court judges monitor offenders' treatment regimens and impose graduated sanctions, including incarceration, on those who do not comply. Participants are expected to stay in treatment and may be ordered to participate in educational, vocational or community service activities. Offenders who graduate from drug court programs may have their charges dismissed or sentences reduced. About $50 million is available for drug courts in FY 2001. The President has requested $50 million for drug courts in FY 2002. More than 240 jurisdictions applied for funding this year: 129 were for first-time courts and 99 for enhancements. A list of grantees, contacts and the award amounts is attached. In addition, summaries are available describing how each grantee receiving an implementation or enhancement grant will use the funds. Additional information about the drug court program is available on the Drug Court Program Office's Website at www.ojp.usdoj.gov/dcpo or by calling the Drug Court Clearinghouse on 202/885-2875. The Clearinghouse's Website is www.american.edu/justice. ### 01-307 From declan at well.com Fri Jul 6 07:12:44 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 10:12:44 -0400 Subject: FC: Feds' "safe harbor" site displayed private info about U.S. firms Message-ID: http://www.wired.com/news/privacy/0,1848,45031,00.html 'Secure' U.S. Site Wasn't Very By Declan McCullagh (declan at wired.com) 2:00 a.m. July 6, 2001 PDT WASHINGTON -- A U.S. government website devoted to helping businesses keep sensitive information private instead revealed confidential information about American firms. A Commerce Department privacy website exposed proprietary information -- such as revenue, number of employees, and the European countries with which the firm does business -- that U.S. companies provided to the government in strict confidence. This information has been publicly accessible since the site went online last year. Casual visitors even could modify information stored in the agency's database, permitting anyone to delete, for instance, Microsoft, Intel, or Procter & Gamble from a government-certified list of companies that can freely exchange information with European firms. In response to queries from Wired News, the Commerce Department plugged the security hole at 5 p.m. EDT on Wednesday. "We are aware of the concerns, and are taking all necessary steps to identify and resolve the issue," a department official said. The irony of gaping security holes in a Commerce Department "Safe Harbor" site established to aid U.S. firms in offering adequate privacy protection wasn't lost on some privacy advocates. "If the government can't control its own information, why is it asking the private sector to do any better?" says Jim Harper, editor of Privacilla.org. "When it comes to information management, government is the gang that couldn't shoot straight." [...] ------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. To subscribe, visit http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- End forwarded message ----- From iang at abraham.cs.berkeley.edu Fri Jul 6 07:15:04 2001 From: iang at abraham.cs.berkeley.edu (Ian Goldberg) Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 10:15:04 -0400 Subject: Declan misses the mark on ecash References: <20010614190021.32578.qmail@nym.alias.net> <20010705144907.A7219@economists.cryptohill.net> <20010705152809.A31598@cluebot.com> <20010705161012.A8485@economists.cryptohill.net> Message-ID: In article <20010705161012.A8485 at economists.cryptohill.net>, Adam Back wrote: >Perhaps the berkeley lawyers opinion could be tracked down? I personally don't remember the Berkeley lawyers ever getting involved. [Thank God. Dealing with that office is just Not Fun.] I think the OP of this factoid was confusing it with the position of Stanford's lawyers regarding SRP. - Ian From declan at well.com Fri Jul 6 07:33:46 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 10:33:46 -0400 Subject: FC: DigiGold sues software developer to keep currency servers online Message-ID: http://www.wired.com/news/ebiz/0,1272,44967,00.html Nothing That Glitters Is DigiGold By Declan McCullagh (declan at wired.com) 2:00 a.m. July 6, 2001 PDT Hurt feelings, financial disputes and bizarre sexual allegations have led to a legal tiff between a high-profile digital currency firm and its software developer. After the once-friendly relationship between DigiGold and Systemics soured this spring, DigiGold sued the software company in an attempt to keep its servers online. Systemics' computers, which maintain DigiGold's customer accounts, are located on the West Indies island of Anguilla. Systemics' Ian Grigg claims he wants to pull the plug on the server since DigiGold has paid only $370,000 of the $500,000 it owed him under a 1999 contract. But DigiGold says it was willing to pay the remaining cash, according to court documents that describe how a close personal relationship between Grigg and DigiGold investor Douglas Jackson led to the creation of Systemics, the invention of a remarkable digital currency, a spate of personnel disputes and an eventual estrangement. Making an odd situation even more unusual are allegations involving one of Jackson's business development employees, Wajiha Khan, who's described in internal e-mail messages as "a person who would use her physical attractiveness as a tool for manipulation of men." According to e-mail written by Grigg, another employee "was well and thoroughly seduced by Wajiha and her attractive younger sister." In response to DigiGold's lawsuit, a judge in Anguilla prohibited Grigg "from terminating support for the DigiGold project or from taking the server offline," according to documents provided by Systemics. On June 19, Judge Hariprashad Charles lifted her injunction, and the dispute currently is in arbitration. [...] ------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. To subscribe, visit http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- End forwarded message ----- From declan at well.com Fri Jul 6 07:34:48 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 10:34:48 -0400 Subject: Feds' "safe harbor" site displayed private info about U.S. firms Message-ID: <20010706103447.C7489@cluebot.com> ----- Forwarded message from Declan McCullagh ----- From declan at well.com Fri Jul 6 07:35:04 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 10:35:04 -0400 Subject: DigiGold sues software developer to keep currency servers online Message-ID: <20010706103504.D7489@cluebot.com> ----- Forwarded message from Declan McCullagh ----- From ptrei at rsasecurity.com Fri Jul 6 08:03:26 2001 From: ptrei at rsasecurity.com (Trei, Peter) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:03:26 -0400 Subject: Spy vs Spy (US vs EU) Message-ID: [IRNA is the Islamic Republic News Agency (ie, Iranian). Adjust your predjudices appropriately.] The solution to European worries over Echelon is (wait for it!) more spies! This would be another step down the road towards a new bipolar world, with UKUSA vs the Continentals (the UK, for the moment, has an uncomfortable foot in both camps). Note that one of this article's base assumptions is that Echelon is primarily used for economic espionage. It would be interesting to find European takes on this issue. Peter Trei ----------------------------------------- http://www.irna.com/newshtm/eng/14193114.htm thr 073 EU-Spy /WRD/ MP announces plans for a European intelligence service Berlin, July 5, IRNA -- The European Union plans to create a European intelligence service, in an effort to counter the American economic espionage program 'Echelon', a deputy of the European Parliament was quoted saying Thursday in the German daily junge Welt. The German member of the European Parliament, Ilka Schroeder of the Green Party, referred to the latest report by the espionage committee, calling for the formation of a European intelligence service to protect European industries against US espionage. "It's hypocritical for the parliament to criticize the US Echelon surveillance techniques, while there are plans in work to promote a European secret service," Schroeder blasted the latest initiative. A recent report by a European parliamentary committee confirmed the existence of a controversial worldwide espionage network 'Echelon' which has caused between Dlrs 13 and 145 billion in financial damages to European companies. The study, presenting evidence that intelligence services from the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Great Britain are part of 'Echelon', called on European firms to guard themselves from this ultra-modern form of economic espionage. The United States had in the past repeatedly denied the existence of 'Echelon' which is reportedly capable of eavesdropping on every single telephone call, radio transmission, fax or e-mail message around the world. US officials had refused to meet with a visiting European parliamentary delegation a few weeks ago, wanting information on 'Echelon'. A member of the EU parliamentary committee, Gerhard Schmid said the evidence, consisting of photos, statements by intelligence officials working on the project and the results of internet research-proved conclusively and without a doubt that this was in fact the case. "Companies outside Europe getting hold of this information might gain huge advantages," Schmid added. The study suggested advanced coding techniques for companies when transmitting confidential messages. Schmid also referred to the close cooperation between the intelligence services of the US and EU member Great Britain, saying it might have serious repercussions for the EU's common foreign and security policies if the issue was not discussed. The worldwide espionage installations of 'Echelon', were created in 1947 and initially used for military purposes. OT/MHJ/JH END ::irna 19:31 From ptrei at rsasecurity.com Fri Jul 6 08:03:26 2001 From: ptrei at rsasecurity.com (Trei, Peter) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:03:26 -0400 Subject: Spy vs Spy (US vs EU) Message-ID: [IRNA is the Islamic Republic News Agency (ie, Iranian). Adjust your predjudices appropriately.] The solution to European worries over Echelon is (wait for it!) more spies! This would be another step down the road towards a new bipolar world, with UKUSA vs the Continentals (the UK, for the moment, has an uncomfortable foot in both camps). Note that one of this article's base assumptions is that Echelon is primarily used for economic espionage. It would be interesting to find European takes on this issue. Peter Trei ----------------------------------------- http://www.irna.com/newshtm/eng/14193114.htm thr 073 EU-Spy /WRD/ MP announces plans for a European intelligence service Berlin, July 5, IRNA -- The European Union plans to create a European intelligence service, in an effort to counter the American economic espionage program 'Echelon', a deputy of the European Parliament was quoted saying Thursday in the German daily junge Welt. The German member of the European Parliament, Ilka Schroeder of the Green Party, referred to the latest report by the espionage committee, calling for the formation of a European intelligence service to protect European industries against US espionage. "It's hypocritical for the parliament to criticize the US Echelon surveillance techniques, while there are plans in work to promote a European secret service," Schroeder blasted the latest initiative. A recent report by a European parliamentary committee confirmed the existence of a controversial worldwide espionage network 'Echelon' which has caused between Dlrs 13 and 145 billion in financial damages to European companies. The study, presenting evidence that intelligence services from the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Great Britain are part of 'Echelon', called on European firms to guard themselves from this ultra-modern form of economic espionage. The United States had in the past repeatedly denied the existence of 'Echelon' which is reportedly capable of eavesdropping on every single telephone call, radio transmission, fax or e-mail message around the world. US officials had refused to meet with a visiting European parliamentary delegation a few weeks ago, wanting information on 'Echelon'. A member of the EU parliamentary committee, Gerhard Schmid said the evidence, consisting of photos, statements by intelligence officials working on the project and the results of internet research-proved conclusively and without a doubt that this was in fact the case. "Companies outside Europe getting hold of this information might gain huge advantages," Schmid added. The study suggested advanced coding techniques for companies when transmitting confidential messages. Schmid also referred to the close cooperation between the intelligence services of the US and EU member Great Britain, saying it might have serious repercussions for the EU's common foreign and security policies if the issue was not discussed. The worldwide espionage installations of 'Echelon', were created in 1947 and initially used for military purposes. OT/MHJ/JH END ::irna 19:31 From bear at sonic.net Fri Jul 6 11:12:26 2001 From: bear at sonic.net (Ray Dillinger) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:12:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Dropping out of the USA In-Reply-To: <53468f78f37d8008394b4902035e1087@melontraffickers.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, A. Melon wrote: >Well, this is not exactly on topic to any ongoing thread, but its >something I'd like to get a few opinions on. It seems that while >science is moving ahead at a such a rate that I'm constantly amazed to >see science fiction becoming science fact, at the same time we're seeing >more political(?)-fiction(nightmares?) becoming fact as well in the form >of government censorship and persecution. As I'm not exactly excited >about the prospect of being shot or winding up in jail indefinitely for >'political crimes', it seems the best options are to simply leave the >country altogether or forget about the personal freedoms granted by the >constitution. > >So my question is: where to go? I certainly don't want to leave behind >all the neat toys in the US like widespread broadband internet access, >massive bookstores, high paying tech jobs, etc. Is there any country >that has the same technological benefits as the US without the >government steadily encroaching into every sector of life? Honestly? I don't think so. Broadband is going to be planetwide in a couple of years, and massive bookstores can be found in major cities in every city on earth, or accessed remotely from anywhere if you just want to buy books. But government encroachment is also increasing planetwide as the cost of surveillence and restriction is driven down by new technology. If you're profoundly optimistic about such things, there's a dude who has renamed himself as 'Lazarus Long' who is trying to found a nation based on strictly libertarian principles and has gotten as far as getting national sovereignty over a tiny island that has basically zero natural resources. Personally I think it's going to be very marginal and isn't likely to last more than a dozen years -- leaving those who get mixed up in it at a risk of becoming stateless persons who may be shat upon by any government on the planet. Or you could try Nauru -- ten thousand people, more or less, on an island now ecologically ruined by mining -- but it's a republic and the citizens still have representation. And it's English-speaking. They are deliberately trying to cultivate an offshore-banking business, so there are opportunities for net-savvy people capable of tending server farms and caring for customer privacy there. But they may find that their close ties to Australia are strained if they take customer privacy too seriously. The problem with Nauru is they have to import all their food except for some fish caught locally, so if they refuse to cooperate with the systematic sheepshearing of citizens globally, they are likely to find themselves hungry, or spending all their banking profits paying blockade-runners for taking insane risks. If you feel so completely fed up that you want to do without government completely, there's always Somalia -- but you will need a gun, and if you have other property you'd like to keep, the will to use it. Bear From Eugene.Leitl at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Fri Jul 6 02:19:28 2001 From: Eugene.Leitl at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Eugene Leitl) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:19:28 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: Meatspace anonymity manual In-Reply-To: <"Pine.SOL.4.30.0107052254200.12256-100000@kruuna.Helsinki.FI "> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, Sampo Syreeni wrote: > Now, let me get this straight...anarchists whose primary display of ideology > is to stay in tight formation? I understand that anarchy does not imply lack > of organization...but formations? Sheesh. I don't sympathize with the protesters, but their strategy and its success or lack thereof is worth studying. Reducing personal signature richness is an interesting approach, and likely to work at least at current level of recording and evaluation technology. -- Eugen* Leitl leitl ______________________________________________________________ ICBMTO : N48 10'07'' E011 33'53'' http://www.lrz.de/~ui22204 57F9CFD3: ED90 0433 EB74 E4A9 537F CFF5 86E7 629B 57F9 CFD3 From Eugene.Leitl at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Fri Jul 6 02:19:28 2001 From: Eugene.Leitl at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Eugene Leitl) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:19:28 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: Meatspace anonymity manual In-Reply-To: <"Pine.SOL.4.30.0107052254200.12256-100000@kruuna.Helsinki. FI "> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, Sampo Syreeni wrote: > Now, let me get this straight...anarchists whose primary display of ideology > is to stay in tight formation? I understand that anarchy does not imply lack > of organization...but formations? Sheesh. I don't sympathize with the protesters, but their strategy and its success or lack thereof is worth studying. Reducing personal signature richness is an interesting approach, and likely to work at least at current level of recording and evaluation technology. -- Eugen* Leitl leitl ______________________________________________________________ ICBMTO : N48 10'07'' E011 33'53'' http://www.lrz.de/~ui22204 57F9CFD3: ED90 0433 EB74 E4A9 537F CFF5 86E7 629B 57F9 CFD3 From declan at well.com Fri Jul 6 09:47:58 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 12:47:58 -0400 Subject: chilling speech In-Reply-To: <3B45E8C0.22910A8D@fbi.gov>; from jd@fbi.gov on Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 09:35:12AM -0700 References: <3B45E8C0.22910A8D@fbi.gov> Message-ID: <20010706124758.A11132@cluebot.com> see also: http://www.politechbot.com/cgi-bin/politech.cgi?name=tristani On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 09:35:12AM -0700, John Doe #2 wrote: > http://www.calendarlive.com/top/1,1419,L-LATimes-TV-X!ArticleDetail-37671,00.html > > contains an article "After FCC Indecency Cases, Stations Are Playing It > Safe" > which describes the chilling effect of fed fines for thoughtcrimes on > fed-licensed private corporations. > > > > WASHINGTON--Sure, they're concerned about a > pair of recent cases in which the Federal > Communications Commission fined radio stations for > playing allegedly indecent songs. But radio executives in > Los Angeles believe they're taking enough precautions > to avoid trouble. > > From iang at abraham.cs.berkeley.edu Fri Jul 6 06:21:45 2001 From: iang at abraham.cs.berkeley.edu (Ian Goldberg) Date: 6 Jul 2001 13:21:45 GMT Subject: Declan misses the mark on ecash References: <20010614190021.32578.qmail@nym.alias.net> <20010705144907.A7219@economists.cryptohill.net> <20010705152809.A31598@cluebot.com> <20010705161012.A8485@economists.cryptohill.net> Message-ID: <9i4e19$igq$1@abraham.cs.berkeley.edu> In article <20010705161012.A8485 at economists.cryptohill.net>, Adam Back wrote: >Perhaps the berkeley lawyers opinion could be tracked down? I personally don't remember the Berkeley lawyers ever getting involved. [Thank God. Dealing with that office is just Not Fun.] I think the OP of this factoid was confusing it with the position of Stanford's lawyers regarding SRP. - Ian From petro at bounty.org Fri Jul 6 13:52:27 2001 From: petro at bounty.org (petro) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 13:52:27 -0700 Subject: Most of a nation on probation? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >>On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, petro pulled this right out of his ass... >> >>> The disparity in numbers is largely due to the way we treat >>> the mentally ill. "They" (Russia, and most of europe) don't count the >>> numbers of people forcebly institutionalized for "mental illness" as >>> part of their prisoner counts, and here in the US the government >>> *usually* doesn't forcibly institutionalize someone until after >>> they've committed a crime, or at least been convicted of a crime of >>> some sort, whether it really should be a crime. >> >>Total, unequivocal bullshit. You have anything to back up these absurd >>statements? >> >>(1) "Forcibly institutionalized" patients are *NOT* [legally] "prisoners", >>and therefore are not included in prisoner counts. Obviously, this >>statement excludes those persons committed to institutions by a court as >>"unfit to stand trial" - a microscopic percentage of the >>"patient" population in the U.S. >> >>(2) The "2-P.C." [2 Psychiatrist Committal] laws do NOT apply to someone >>*after* they have committed a crime. After they commit a crime, they are >>under the jurisdiction of a *court*, and they are no longer patients (and >>only _patients_ get 2-P.C.'d). >> > > Funny, you are accusing me of saying pretty much what you just said. > > Hmmm... > > Let me try to repeat myself is a way you might be able to >understand it. > > In this country we *DO NOT INSTUTIONALIZE* many of our >"mentally ill" like they do in other countries (Russia, Europe) Nor >do we count those who are as "prisoners" (which many other countries >do). Change that last bit to "(which most other countries don't)". -- http://www.apa.org/journals/psp/psp7761121.html It is one of the essential features of such incompetence that the person so afflicted is incapable of knowing that he is incompetent. To have such knowledge would already be to remedy a good portion of the offense. From petro at bounty.org Fri Jul 6 13:53:40 2001 From: petro at bounty.org (petro) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 13:53:40 -0700 Subject: Tampa using cameras to scan for wanted faces-- In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >> From: petro[SMTP:petro at bounty.org] >> >> Mr. May: >> >> >One of the interesting things is that _ear shape_ is one of the best >> >correlation features. >> >> Hmmm... >> >> Maybe it's time to market a line of Privacy Ear Jewelry. >> Shouldn't be hard with a couple piercing here, and some funny lumps >> there to distort the profile enough. >> >Or just return to 70's hair styles. -- http://www.apa.org/journals/psp/psp7761121.html It is one of the essential features of such incompetence that the person so afflicted is incapable of knowing that he is incompetent. To have such knowledge would already be to remedy a good portion of the offense. 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To stop additional follow up messages click below: http://www.aweber.com/r.php?i=hotfreshleads&e=cypherpunks%40ssz.com From srinivasan at netsol.co.in Fri Jul 6 02:34:03 2001 From: srinivasan at netsol.co.in (srinivasan at netsol.co.in) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 15:04:03 +0530 Subject: breaking encryption in microsoft word Message-ID: <20EFA813D4A7D411A4980008C733E7BD010A99D0@netsoldns01.netsol.co.in> Dear Sir I have got a few files in Microsoft Word 6 which is enabled with password for which i have forgotten. Please let me know if there is anyway that i can break though the password as it contains some important documents about my personal things. Thanx & regards 'Srini' Srinivasan Network Solutions Ltd B-7, Gems Court, 2nd Floor #14, Khader Nawaz Khan Road Nungambakkam, Chennai - 600 006 Ph : 044-8213082 / 8218353 Ext:106 Fx : 044-8237623 E-mail : srinivasan at netsol.co.in Web : http://www.netsol.co.in From decoy at iki.fi Fri Jul 6 05:10:19 2001 From: decoy at iki.fi (Sampo Syreeni) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 15:10:19 +0300 (EEST) Subject: Tampa using cameras to scan for wanted faces-- In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, petro wrote: >Maybe it's time to market a line of Privacy Ear Jewelry. Shouldn't be >hard with a couple piercing here, and some funny lumps there to distort >the profile enough. If you need a reason for more extensive covering of your lobes, just embed a cell phone and/or other funky electronic gear. Gives you compliance to laws mandating hands-free operation, as well. Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy, mailto:decoy at iki.fi, gsm: +358-50-5756111 student/math+cs/helsinki university, http://www.iki.fi/~decoy/front From dialermania at terra.es Fri Jul 6 15:36:04 2001 From: dialermania at terra.es (dialermania at terra.es) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 15:36:04 Subject: Attention Adult Webmasters!!! Message-ID: <352.144045.91964@terra.es> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3496 bytes Desc: not available URL: From a3495 at cotse.com Fri Jul 6 13:52:36 2001 From: a3495 at cotse.com (Faustine) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 16:52:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Meatspace anonymity manual Message-ID: <1f3238b915617301adca843878b40548@freemail.cotse.com> Sampo Syreeni writes: > On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, Anonymous Coredump wrote: > > >THE BLACK "BLOC" The whole idea of a Black Bloc is that people wear all > >black, and stay in a tight formation. If people don't stay in formation, > >and wander around with large gaps in-between, well, that's not a black > >bloc, that's a march of anarchists wearing black. > > Now, let me get this straight...anarchists whose primary display of ideology > is to stay in tight formation? I understand that anarchy does not imply lack > of organization...but formations? Sheesh. >So are you being sarcastic or are you really failing to understand >that Black Blocs are a short-term tactic for possibly illegal >operations on the street in an environment full of police, and not >some demonstrative symbol of anarchist philosophy representing their >vision of society? Frankly, I don't see how any kind of "short-term tactic for possibly illegal operations on the street in an environment full of police" could be good for anything more than the symbolic. What did these "illegal operations" really accomplish apart from getting out a statement? Serious question. I'm just not seeing it. Making a few gestures pantomiming paramilitary operations is just plain suicidal. The bottom line is that in a protest-type situation, you're relying on the power of negative PR to keep the police from mowing you down any old time they feel like it. It doesn't matter what color you wear or how tight you march, you're still as vulnerable as anyone else if you don't have some serious, serious gear and training. And is that really the direction you're prepared to go? Think about it. A few acts of vandalism isn't exactly anything I'd call significant. And it's kind of sad that you really think anyone with real power and influence actually gives a damn about anything that happens at these protests to begin with. Sure, it keeps their PR spokesmen spinning, but otherwise it's laughed off as a total joke and annoyance. You don't have to like it to realize that's the way it is. So why not spend your time writing some useful and relevant software or books instead, something that really makes an impact. Creativity, not destruction. At any rate, it sure beats facing the prospect of rotting in jail as a political prisoner on trumped-up destruction of property charges--sending your whole life straight down the toilet for absolutely nothing. But it's your lives, do whatever you want. I'm sure you will. ~Faustine. From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Fri Jul 6 15:30:40 2001 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 17:30:40 -0500 Subject: CNN.com - Bush proposal would cover fetuses - July 6, 2001 Message-ID: <3B463C10.52BFEA89@ssz.com> http://www.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/07/06/bush.fetus/index.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Fri Jul 6 15:36:28 2001 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 17:36:28 -0500 Subject: The Register - Dot-commers to blame for anti-capitalist violence, says WTO Message-ID: <3B463D6C.AF7990E@ssz.com> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/20242.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From aimee.farr at pobox.com Fri Jul 6 15:56:38 2001 From: aimee.farr at pobox.com (Aimee Farr) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 17:56:38 -0500 Subject: Spy vs Spy (US vs EU) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Trei wrote: > [IRNA is the Islamic Republic News Agency > (ie, Iranian). Adjust your predjudices > appropriately.] > > The solution to European worries over Echelon is > (wait for it!) more spies! Their standard answer. > Note that one of this article's base assumptions > is that Echelon is primarily used for economic > espionage. It would be interesting to > find European takes on this issue. Indeed. European takes on the privatization of intelligence agencies are quite illuminating. ~Aimee > > Peter Trei > > ----------------------------------------- > http://www.irna.com/newshtm/eng/14193114.htm > > thr 073 > EU-Spy /WRD/ > MP announces plans for a European intelligence service > Berlin, July 5, IRNA -- The European Union plans to create a European > intelligence service, in an effort to counter the American economic > espionage program 'Echelon', a deputy of the European Parliament was > quoted saying Thursday in the German daily junge Welt. > The German member of the European Parliament, Ilka Schroeder of > the Green Party, referred to the latest report by the espionage > committee, calling for the formation of a European intelligence > service to protect European industries against US espionage. > "It's hypocritical for the parliament to criticize the US Echelon > surveillance techniques, while there are plans in work to promote > a European secret service," Schroeder blasted the latest initiative. > A recent report by a European parliamentary committee confirmed the > existence of a controversial worldwide espionage network 'Echelon' > which has caused between Dlrs 13 and 145 billion in financial > damages to European companies. > The study, presenting evidence that intelligence services from > the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Great Britain are part > of 'Echelon', called on European firms to guard themselves from this > ultra-modern form of economic espionage. > The United States had in the past repeatedly denied the existence > of 'Echelon' which is reportedly capable of eavesdropping on every > single telephone call, radio transmission, fax or e-mail message > around the world. > US officials had refused to meet with a visiting European > parliamentary delegation a few weeks ago, wanting information on > 'Echelon'. > A member of the EU parliamentary committee, Gerhard Schmid said the > evidence, consisting of photos, statements by intelligence officials > working on the project and the results of internet research-proved > conclusively and without a doubt that this was in fact the case. > "Companies outside Europe getting hold of this information might > gain huge advantages," Schmid added. > The study suggested advanced coding techniques for companies when > transmitting confidential messages. > Schmid also referred to the close cooperation between the > intelligence services of the US and EU member Great Britain, saying it > might have serious repercussions for the EU's common foreign and > security policies if the issue was not discussed. > The worldwide espionage installations of 'Echelon', were created > in 1947 and initially used for military purposes. > OT/MHJ/JH > END > ::irna 19:31 From therightdomains2002 at yahoo.ca Fri Jul 6 18:42:00 2001 From: therightdomains2002 at yahoo.ca (TheRightDomains.com) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 18:42:00 -0700 Subject: Domain Registration for $15 Message-ID: <200107070142.SAA17490@ecotone.toad.com> Subject: Domain Registration for Just $15 REGISTER .COM, .NET & .ORG NAMES Only $15 per year. REGISTER NOW !!! Go to http://www.TheRightDomains.com * No Hidden Charges * No Restrictions * No Surprises * 3 Easy Steps to Register - FREE Domain Name Search: Lets you obtain information about a domain name owner, look up your competitors and check if a domain is available! - FREE Primary & Secondary DNS: Allows you to register for many domain names without having it route to your existing ISP, which may cost you money and inconvenience when you switch providers! - FREE Domain Parking: Means you can place your domain(s) on our servers free, reserving them for later use! - FREE under Construction Page: Gives you an immediate web presence while you build your web site! Registration has never been easier! Visit http://www.TheRightDomains.com now! ####################################################################### This message is sent in compliance of the new email bill section 301. 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If you have received this mailing in error, or do not wish to receive any further mailings about this topic, simply click http://TheRightDomains.com/cgi-bin/remove.pl?email=cypherpunks at toad.com We respect all removal requests. ####################################################################### From ptrei at rsasecurity.com Fri Jul 6 15:54:06 2001 From: ptrei at rsasecurity.com (Trei, Peter) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 18:54:06 -0400 Subject: Dot-commers to blame for anti-capitalist violence, says WTO Message-ID: > From: Jim Choate[SMTP:ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com] > Subject: The Register - Dot-commers to blame for anti-capitalist > violence, says WTO > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/20242.html > -- > This one is actually worth looking at, so I'm going to do what Jim lacks the ability, intelligence, manners, social grace, and common decency to do: post a nicely formatted copy of the refered article (its short). Note what the Internet means to the WTO maximum leader. Peter Trei ----------------------------- Dot-commers to blame for anti-capitalist violence, says WTO boss By Andrew Orlowski Posted: 06/07/2001 at 22:12 GMT "Dot com types" are to blame for the violence at recent gatherings of the World Trade Organisation, according to WTO director general Mike Moore. Moore made his remarks in Geneva, in an appeal for citizens groups (NGOs) to distance themselves from "masked stone-throwers who claim to want more transparency, anti-globalization dot.com-types who trot out slogans that are trite, shallow and superficial," he said. Which came as news to us. We thought "dot com" types were too busy braying into mobile phones and snorting enormous quantities of Bolivian marching powder as they vandalised a communication infrastructure created at great public expense for research purposes, with marketing plans that would get a six year old suspended from kindergarten for frivolity. They'd certainly be the last group we'd suspect of complaining about capitalism. "Critics, who are not all mad or bad, frequently say we have too much power," Moore conceded generously. Moore then went on to propose a contract demanding "transparency from NGOs as to their membership, their finances, their rules of decision-making," which most citizens groups will find deliciously ironic. Alas, we suspect, he was being serious. A full text of Moore's speech can be found here http://www.wto.org/english/news_e/spmm_e/spmm67_e.htm From ptrei at rsasecurity.com Fri Jul 6 15:54:06 2001 From: ptrei at rsasecurity.com (Trei, Peter) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 18:54:06 -0400 Subject: Dot-commers to blame for anti-capitalist violence, says WTO Message-ID: > From: Jim Choate[SMTP:ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com] > Subject: The Register - Dot-commers to blame for anti-capitalist > violence, says WTO > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/20242.html > -- > This one is actually worth looking at, so I'm going to do what Jim lacks the ability, intelligence, manners, social grace, and common decency to do: post a nicely formatted copy of the refered article (its short). Note what the Internet means to the WTO maximum leader. Peter Trei ----------------------------- Dot-commers to blame for anti-capitalist violence, says WTO boss By Andrew Orlowski Posted: 06/07/2001 at 22:12 GMT "Dot com types" are to blame for the violence at recent gatherings of the World Trade Organisation, according to WTO director general Mike Moore. Moore made his remarks in Geneva, in an appeal for citizens groups (NGOs) to distance themselves from "masked stone-throwers who claim to want more transparency, anti-globalization dot.com-types who trot out slogans that are trite, shallow and superficial," he said. Which came as news to us. We thought "dot com" types were too busy braying into mobile phones and snorting enormous quantities of Bolivian marching powder as they vandalised a communication infrastructure created at great public expense for research purposes, with marketing plans that would get a six year old suspended from kindergarten for frivolity. They'd certainly be the last group we'd suspect of complaining about capitalism. "Critics, who are not all mad or bad, frequently say we have too much power," Moore conceded generously. Moore then went on to propose a contract demanding "transparency from NGOs as to their membership, their finances, their rules of decision-making," which most citizens groups will find deliciously ironic. Alas, we suspect, he was being serious. A full text of Moore's speech can be found here http://www.wto.org/english/news_e/spmm_e/spmm67_e.htm From k.brown at ccs.bbk.ac.uk Fri Jul 6 11:19:09 2001 From: k.brown at ccs.bbk.ac.uk (Ken Brown) Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 19:19:09 +0100 Subject: Dropping out of the USA References: <53468f78f37d8008394b4902035e1087@melontraffickers.com> Message-ID: <3B46011D.B9F83211@ccs.bbk.ac.uk> "A. Melon" wrote: > > Well, this is not exactly on topic to any ongoing thread, but its > something I'd like to get a few opinions on. It seems that while > science is moving ahead at a such a rate that I'm constantly amazed to > see science fiction becoming science fact, at the same time we're seeing > more political(?)-fiction(nightmares?) becoming fact as well in the form > of government censorship and persecution. As I'm not exactly excited > about the prospect of being shot or winding up in jail indefinitely for > 'political crimes', it seems the best options are to simply leave the > country altogether or forget about the personal freedoms granted by the > constitution. > So my question is: where to go? You don't have a whole lot of choice. Few places in the world do even as well as the US in the broad range of things you might be interested in. > I certainly don't want to leave behind > all the neat toys in the US like > widespread broadband internet access, Any rich country has this, at least in towns, and enclaves in a lot of poor ones. > massive bookstores, Ditto. We probably have better ones over here in Britain than you guys do. But you might not like other things about us. > high paying tech jobs, If you are techy enough you can get these anywhere. You get paid less in poor places of course, but then things are cheaper. > Is there any country > that has the same technological benefits as the US without the > government steadily encroaching into every sector of life? Nope. Most European countries have more restrictive laws than you do, though in practice the difference isn't that great. Everywhere you will get government interference, it depends what you object to most. The kind of personal firearms that are common in the USA are illegal almost everywhere else. But then your crazy US alcohol laws are the laughing stock of the rest of the non-Muslim world. In Singapore you can get banged up for spitting in the street. > How does one > 'drop out' of the US and keep all the good things one has become > accustomed to? Maybe by being very rich and in effect living in a fortress? Or by making do with less money. From ming at planetmongo.net Fri Jul 6 20:51:36 2001 From: ming at planetmongo.net (ming) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 20:51:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Dropping out of the USA In-Reply-To: <3B46011D.B9F83211@ccs.bbk.ac.uk> Message-ID: Belize? Unless you're looking for somewhere that doesn't have extradition laws with the US? Sri Lanka, Arthur C. Clarke is there... Not sure if they extradite.. Of course they have terrorists. ming [This is a sig file] On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Ken Brown wrote: > "A. Melon" wrote: > > > > Well, this is not exactly on topic to any ongoing thread, but its > > something I'd like to get a few opinions on. It seems that while > > science is moving ahead at a such a rate that I'm constantly amazed to > > see science fiction becoming science fact, at the same time we're seeing > > more political(?)-fiction(nightmares?) becoming fact as well in the form > > of government censorship and persecution. As I'm not exactly excited > > about the prospect of being shot or winding up in jail indefinitely for > > 'political crimes', it seems the best options are to simply leave the > > country altogether or forget about the personal freedoms granted by the > > constitution. > > > So my question is: where to go? > > You don't have a whole lot of choice. Few places in the world do even as > well as the US in the broad range of things you might be interested in. > > > I certainly don't want to leave behind > > all the neat toys in the US like > > > widespread broadband internet access, > > Any rich country has this, at least in towns, and enclaves in a lot of > poor ones. > > > massive bookstores, > > Ditto. We probably have better ones over here in Britain than you guys > do. But you might not like other things about us. > > > high paying tech jobs, > > If you are techy enough you can get these anywhere. You get paid less in > poor places of course, but then things are cheaper. > > > Is there any country > > that has the same technological benefits as the US without the > > government steadily encroaching into every sector of life? > > Nope. Most European countries have more restrictive laws than you do, > though in practice the difference isn't that great. Everywhere you will > get government interference, it depends what you object to most. The > kind of personal firearms that are common in the USA are illegal almost > everywhere else. But then your crazy US alcohol laws are the laughing > stock of the rest of the non-Muslim world. In Singapore you can get > banged up for spitting in the street. > > > How does one > > 'drop out' of the US and keep all the good things one has become > > accustomed to? > > Maybe by being very rich and in effect living in a fortress? > > Or by making do with less money. From emailoffer-reply at xoom.com Fri Jul 6 21:43:42 2001 From: emailoffer-reply at xoom.com (NBCi Email Support) Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 21:43:42 -0700 Subject: (KMM20240288C0KM) Message-ID: <200107070344.UAA17912@ecotone.toad.com> This message is a computer-generated autoreply. Your request or inquiry could not be processed automatically and is being returned to you. E-mail sent to this address will not reach our support team. If you have a question or request, please resubmit it using one of the following links. To unsubscribe from NBCi newsletters: http://home.nbci.com/main/help/support/1,120,-0,00.html?area=uns OR mailto:subscriptions at nbci.com To contact the support team for other issues: http://home.nbci.com/LMOID/resource/0,566,home-223,00.html Thank you. --------Original Message-------- - st: cypherpunks at toad.com I just found the perfect one.. and that dude is giving it away for free :) Actually, I was just testing that application and thought you would know. Visit http://www.chatventure.com/marbus/mailbomb.htm Have phun! From matt at ragasreport.com Fri Jul 6 15:02:25 2001 From: matt at ragasreport.com (The RagasReport) Date: 6 Jul 2001 22:02:25 -0000 Subject: THE RAGAS REPORT - Learning Real Lessons From the eFront Message-ID: <994456945.94726.qmail@ech> "Now Read by Over 25,000 Next Economy Architects Weekly" Friday, July 6, 2001 By Editor: Matt Ragas IN THIS ISSUE============================================== ENTER TO WIN A FREE PALM VIIx! - www.LessonseFront.com Download the free Introduction to Lessons From the eFront, the new e-business battle guide by RagasReport editor Matt Ragas and enter to win a free Palm VIIx handheld. It's the book that no Next Economy leader should be without! Learn the secrets to e-business success now by visiting and sharing the link below: http://www.lessonsefront.com/webpage/download.htm THIS WEEK'S COMMENTARY===================================== An Insider's Look at the Next Economy Editor's Note: I hope that everyone had a great 4th of July with their families. Due to the holiday shortened week, the RagasReport decided to take a short nap this week and enjoy some of the beautiful sunshine here in Florida. Of course, the report will return next Friday with its regular dose of insider commentary and analysis of the tech sector. In the meantime, I thought I'd share with you some of the great endorsements that my new book - Lessons From the eFront - has recently received. Don't forget to visit the new website for Lessons From the eFront and enter to win a FREE Palm VIIx handheld. You can also download the Introduction to the book from the site. The future is now. The Next Economy is now - read about it! Buzz About Lessons From the E-Front "During a time when plenty of painful lessons are being learned, Lessons from the E-Front could become a battle guide for the walking wounded. It's a must-read for anyone who wants to profit from tech veterans' wins and losses." -Thom Calandra, Editor-in-Chief, CBS MarketWatch "A great book for people in the trenches." -Guy Kawasaki, CEO, Garage.com, and author of Rules for Revolutionaries "Matt Ragas captures the entrepreneurial spirit with real-life lessons and stories, but without the jargon and grand academic theory. His insightful analysis cuts to the core of running a business in a time of rapid technological change and market volatility." -Bill Martin, Founder, Raging Bull Inc. "Valuable reading for all would-be entrepreneurs as well as seasoned veterans." -David Bohnett, Founder, GeoCities "An excellent guide for entrepreneurs, full of thoughtful pragmatism." -Gary Rieschel, Executive Managing Director, Softbank Venture Capital "Reading Lessons from the E-Front won't make you rich, but it might help you figure out the next step. At the very least, you'll get a glimpse into the minds of ecommerce pioneers-the ones destined to make it and the ones with the arrows in their backs." -Larry Magid, Syndicated Columnist, Los Angeles Times "No longer will a cool idea and a PowerPoint presentation be enough to get your business off the ground. If you want to build a real business that lasts, read this book." -Tom Taulli, Internet Stock Analyst, Internet.com "The dot-com boom may be over, but the lessons from it endure. Lessons from the E-Front is full of valuable advice. Anybody looking to start a company should read this book." -Andy Wang, founder, Ironminds.com, and features editor, GEAR magazine "Anyone who thinks high-tech business operates on a wing and a prayer, with glib leaders and ephemeral business plans, will be enlightened by this book. Open it to any page, and you're certain to glean a diamond-cut nugget of hard-won insight." -Brad Hill, author of thirteen books including - Getting Started in Online Personal Finance "Matt Ragas was one of the first investment writers to realize that the New Economy is about more than just technology -- it's about how companies use technology, whatever their business." -Spencer Reiss, Vice President - Gilder Publishing and Editor of New Economy Watch p.s. Free is good, right? Well, then take the next thirty seconds or so to visit the website for Lessons From the eFront and enter to win a FREE PalmVIIx at: http://www.lessonsefront.com *********************************************************** Please feel free to share this free newsletter with a friend or colleague! Pass it on! Sign up instructions are below! *********************************************************** SUBSCRIPTION INFORMATION: Share this report with your friends, associates and colleagues. The subscription to the report is always FREE so pass it on or signup below! TO SUBSCRIBE - Please sign-up by visiting: http://www.ragasreport.com and entering your email. TO UNSUBSCRIBE- Please click on the unsubscribe link that can be found at the end of this report. =========================================================== FOR ADVERTISING INFORMATION - Want to reach the movers and shakers of Web St. and Wall St. all in one place? Thousands of Next Economy leaders read our report weekly. Get your marketing message in front of leaders- not followers! For advertising information please contact: AdRates at RagasReport.com. Comments? Questions? Agree or disagree with our ramblings? In dire need of real e-strategy services? Email Matt Ragas (matt at ragasreport.com), President and Chief Analyst, Matthew Ragas & Associates. About Matthew W. Ragas: Ragas is President and Chief Analyst of Matthew Ragas & Associates, an Orlando, FL based strategic advisory and venture development firm. He was previously the founding editor of Raging Bull and is the author of the new e-business book Lessons From the E-Front from Prima Publishing. Disclaimer: Matthew Ragas & Associates and The Ragas Report is not a registered Investment Adviser or a Broker/Dealer. Readers are advised that the report is issued solely for informational purposes and is not to be construed as an offer to sell or the solicitation of an offer to buy. The opinions and analyses included herein are based from sources believed to be reliable and written in good faith, but no representation or warranty, expressed or implied is made as to their accuracy, completeness or correctness. Owners, employees and writers may have positions in the securities that are discussed in the newsletter. Please note that we are taking no compensation of any kind and will never take any compensation from any companies that we mention in this report. Copyright(c) 2000-2001, Matthew Ragas & Associates. (http://www.ragasreport.com) All Rights Reserved. _______________________________________________________________________ Powered by List Builder To unsubscribe follow the link: http://lb.bcentral.com/ex/manage/subscriberprefs?customerid=7979&subid=469354371381A4CE&msgnum=171 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 15375 bytes Desc: not available URL: From amaha at vsnl.net Fri Jul 6 10:07:12 2001 From: amaha at vsnl.net (Fountain Of Inspiration) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 22:37:12 +0530 (IST) Subject: Thought-A-Day Message-ID: <20010706170712.0F2F217F0F@mmb1.vsnl.net.in> I am grateful for all my problems.As each of them was overcome I became stronger and more able to meet those yet to come.I grew on difficulties. --J.C.Penney ***************************************************************************** Your name has been recommended to receive thoughts of wisdom from Fountain of Joy. These thoughts will be delivered, free of cost, to your desktop,everyday, for an initial evaluation period. We believe that the meaningful insights of these carefully selected thoughts will make your life peaceful,successful & happy in a way you had never imagined before. However, if you desire to unsubscribe, reply to this email with 'remove' in the subject line. Director, Fountain of Inspiration (Non-religious Organisation) From WinBOMB.2.0.Beta at ecotone.toad.com Fri Jul 6 22:54:15 2001 From: WinBOMB.2.0.Beta at ecotone.toad.com (WinBOMB.2.0.Beta at ecotone.toad.com) Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 22:54:15 PM Subject: Searching a mailbomber or spamutility? Message-ID: <5pw3y1pprqyb7vg.070720010054@cvserver2> I just found the perfect one.. and that dude is giving it away for free :) Actually, I was just testing that application and thought you would know. Visit http://www.chatventure.com/marbus/mailbomb.htm Have phun! From jamesd at echeque.com Fri Jul 6 23:08:13 2001 From: jamesd at echeque.com (jamesd at echeque.com) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 23:08:13 -0700 Subject: Dot-commers to blame for anti-capitalist violence, says WTO In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3B4644DD.11612.12EDB03@localhost> -- On 6 Jul 2001, at 18:54, Trei, Peter wrote: > Moore made his remarks in Geneva, in an appeal for citizens > groups (NGOs) to distance themselves from "masked > stone-throwers who claim to want more transparency, > anti-globalization dot.com-types who trot out slogans that > are trite, shallow and superficial," he said. > > Which came as news to us. We thought "dot com" types were > too busy braying into mobile phones and snorting enormous > quantities of Bolivian marching powder as they vandalised a > communication infrastructure created at great public expense > for research purposes, with marketing plans that would get a > six year old suspended from kindergarten for frivolity. The WTO is under attack both from anti capitalists and pro capitalists. The anti capitalists are attacking it physically, with stones. The pro capitalists are using more sophisticated weapons, the "trite, shallow and supercial" arguments he dismisses. The pro capitalists are arguing that the multilateral approach to freeing trade has failed, as now too many people are looking for a gravy train in international regulation, and the solution is unilateral free trade policies, like those implemented by Singapore and Hong Kong -- that the WTO is beginning to be harmful, rather than helpful, for free trade. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG /OS0clQxBlI8w2AmxGTqQdeAGTCLAL+gOHqiP4Qs 4g5HvgJ/YLgAVlaNOte9/E7VAOdw5nIc009qpLLAU From plgn2001 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 6 23:45:53 2001 From: plgn2001 at yahoo.com (plgn2001 at yahoo.com) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 23:45:53 Subject: FLORIDA BEACH HOME..... $129.95 ???? Message-ID: <200107070451.XAA06556@einstein.ssz.com> CONFIRMATION FOR YOUR POSTING: Thanks for submitting your ad to my DTL FFA Network page at: http://www.dailytargetedleads.com/members/YOUR USERNAME HERE This is confirmation that your ad was successfully posted. This is a ONE TIME "Confirmation" Message. Please feel free to submit your site anytime You wish. ************************************************************************************ ** Florida Beach home $129 To see how you can receive a three bedroom, 2 bath, Octa-structure beach home, click here. ************************************************************************************ ***This message is in full compliance with U.S. Federal requirements for commercial email under bill S.1618 and cannot be considered SPAM since it includes removal instructions. Remove requests honored promptly. Just reply with "remove" in the subject line. *** From 100free at bigmailbox.net Sat Jul 7 00:39:02 2001 From: 100free at bigmailbox.net (Free Free) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 00:39:02 -0700 Subject: All Free Message-ID: <200107070739.AAA13017@mail8.bigmailbox.com> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From 100free at bigmailbox.net Sat Jul 7 00:40:17 2001 From: 100free at bigmailbox.net (Free Free) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 00:40:17 -0700 Subject: All Free Message-ID: <200107070740.AAA13220@mail8.bigmailbox.com> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From WinBOMB at ecotone.toad.com Sat Jul 7 01:06:26 2001 From: WinBOMB at ecotone.toad.com (WinBOMB at ecotone.toad.com) Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 01:06:26 AM Subject: Searching a mailbomber or spamutility? Message-ID: I just found the perfect one.. and that dude is giving it away for free :) Actually, I was just testing that application and thought you would know. Visit http://www.chatventure.com/marbus/mailbomb.htm Have phun! From WinBOMB at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Sat Jul 7 01:26:53 2001 From: WinBOMB at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (WinBOMB at EINSTEIN.ssz.com) Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 01:26:53 AM Subject: Searching a mailbomber or spamutility? Message-ID: <0fpni43bs0bk7qm.070720010327@cvserver2> I just found the perfect one.. and that dude is giving it away for free :) Actually, I was just testing that application and thought you would know. Visit http://www.chatventure.com/marbus/mailbomb.htm Have phun! From WinBOMB at ecotone.toad.com Sat Jul 7 01:26:54 2001 From: WinBOMB at ecotone.toad.com (WinBOMB at ecotone.toad.com) Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 01:26:54 AM Subject: Searching a mailbomber or spamutility? Message-ID: I just found the perfect one.. and that dude is giving it away for free :) Actually, I was just testing that application and thought you would know. Visit http://www.chatventure.com/marbus/mailbomb.htm Have phun! From WinBOMB at ecotone.toad.com Sat Jul 7 01:27:52 2001 From: WinBOMB at ecotone.toad.com (WinBOMB at ecotone.toad.com) Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 01:27:52 AM Subject: Searching a mailbomber or spamutility? Message-ID: I just found the perfect one.. and that dude is giving it away for free :) Actually, I was just testing that application and thought you would know. Visit http://www.chatventure.com/marbus/mailbomb.htm Have phun! From WinBOMB at ecotone.toad.com Sat Jul 7 01:27:53 2001 From: WinBOMB at ecotone.toad.com (WinBOMB at ecotone.toad.com) Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 01:27:53 AM Subject: Searching a mailbomber or spamutility? Message-ID: I just found the perfect one.. and that dude is giving it away for free :) Actually, I was just testing that application and thought you would know. Visit http://www.chatventure.com/marbus/mailbomb.htm Have phun! From WinBOMB at ecotone.toad.com Sat Jul 7 01:48:50 2001 From: WinBOMB at ecotone.toad.com (WinBOMB at ecotone.toad.com) Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 01:48:50 AM Subject: Searching a mailbomber or spamutility? Message-ID: I just found the perfect one.. and that dude is giving it away for free :) Actually, I was just testing that application and thought you would know. Visit http://www.chatventure.com/marbus/mailbomb.htm Have phun! From WinBOMB at ecotone.toad.com Sat Jul 7 01:48:50 2001 From: WinBOMB at ecotone.toad.com (WinBOMB at ecotone.toad.com) Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 01:48:50 AM Subject: Searching a mailbomber or spamutility? Message-ID: <7y4benm6hytblmv.070720010349@cvserver2> I just found the perfect one.. and that dude is giving it away for free :) Actually, I was just testing that application and thought you would know. Visit http://www.chatventure.com/marbus/mailbomb.htm Have phun! From WinBOMB at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Sat Jul 7 01:49:34 2001 From: WinBOMB at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (WinBOMB at EINSTEIN.ssz.com) Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 01:49:34 AM Subject: Searching a mailbomber or spamutility? Message-ID: I just found the perfect one.. and that dude is giving it away for free :) Actually, I was just testing that application and thought you would know. Visit http://www.chatventure.com/marbus/mailbomb.htm Have phun! From WinBOMB at ecotone.toad.com Sat Jul 7 01:49:34 2001 From: WinBOMB at ecotone.toad.com (WinBOMB at ecotone.toad.com) Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 01:49:34 AM Subject: Searching a mailbomber or spamutility? Message-ID: <8j57pev3aa1sr10.070720010350@cvserver2> I just found the perfect one.. and that dude is giving it away for free :) Actually, I was just testing that application and thought you would know. Visit http://www.chatventure.com/marbus/mailbomb.htm Have phun! From WinBOMB at ecotone.toad.com Sat Jul 7 01:49:35 2001 From: WinBOMB at ecotone.toad.com (WinBOMB at ecotone.toad.com) Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 01:49:35 AM Subject: Searching a mailbomber or spamutility? Message-ID: <0pd7wkska002a8l.070720010350@cvserver2> I just found the perfect one.. and that dude is giving it away for free :) Actually, I was just testing that application and thought you would know. Visit http://www.chatventure.com/marbus/mailbomb.htm Have phun! From dragon747ca at yahoo.ca Sat Jul 7 02:19:30 2001 From: dragon747ca at yahoo.ca (dragon747ca at yahoo.ca) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 02:19:30 Subject: i can't believe this Message-ID: <200107071026.f67AQLj13793@rigel.cyberpass.net> You already own a computer and have an internet connection. While you are online you may as well make some money right? This program really works, and while it takes some persistence anyone can do this! You can earn $50,000 or more in next the 90 days sending e-mail. Seem impossible? Read on for details; is there a catch; NO, there is no catch, just send your emails and be on your way to financial freedom. AS SEEN ON NATIONAL TV : ''Making over half million dollars every 4 to 5 months from your home for an investment of only $25 U.S. Dollars expense one time'' THANKS TO THE COMPUTER AGE AND THE INTERNET ! =============================================== Before you say ''Bull'' , please read the following. 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Pam Hedland, Fort Lee, New Jersey. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here is another testimonial: ''' this program has been around for a long time but I never believed in it. One day when I received this again in the mail I decided to gamble my $25 on it. I followed the simple instructions and walaa ..... 3 weeks later the money started to come in. First month I only made $240.00 but the next 2 months after that I made a total of $290,000.00. So far, in the past 8 months by re-entering the program, I have made over $768,000.00 and I am playing it again. The key to success in this program is to follow the simple steps and NOT change anything . But like most of the people I was also a little skeptical and little worried about the legal aspect of it. So I checked it out with the U.S. Postal Service (1-800- 725 2161 = 24 hrs) and they confirmed that it is indeed Legal ! I am now loving it !" Richard Templeton, Dallas, Texas. ---------------------------------------------------------------- More testimonials later but first, ****** PRINT THIS NOW FOR YOUR FUTURE REFERENCE ******* $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ If you would like to make at least $100,000 every 4 to 5 months legally, easily and comfortably, please read the following...then READ IT AGAIN and AGAIN and follow the simple instructions ! DUE TO THE RECENT INCREASE OF POPULARITY & RESPECT THIS PROGRAM HAS ATTAINED, IT IS CURRENTLY WORKING BETTER THAN EVER. FOLLOW THE SIMPLE INSTRUCTION BELOW AND YOUR FINANCIAL DREAMS WILL COME TRUE, GUARANTEED ! The sooner you do it, the faster you start making money !!! INSTRUCTIONS: **** Order all 5 reports shown on the list below. **** For each report, send $5 CASH, THE NAME & NUMBER OF THE REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING and YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS to the person whose name appears ON THAT LIST next to the report. MAKE SURE YOUR RETURN ADDRESS IS ON YOUR ENVELOPE TOP LEFT CORNER in case of any mail problems. **** When you place your order, make sure you order each of the 5 reports. You will need all 5 reports so that you can save them on your computer and resell them. YOUR TOTAL COST $5 X 5 = $25.00. **** Within a few days you will receive, vie e-mail, each of the 5 reports from these 5 different individuals. Save them on your computer so they will be accessible for you to send to the 1,000's of people who will order them from you. Also make a floppy of these reports and keep it on your desk in case something happen to your computer. **** IMPORTANT __ DO NOT alter the names of the people who are listed next to each report, or their sequence on the list, in any way other than what is instructed below in step '' 1 through 6 '' or you will loose out on majority of your profits. Once you understand the way this works, you will also see how it does not work if you change it. Remember, this method has been tested, and if you alter, it will NOT work!!! People have tried to put their friends/relatives names on all five thinking they could get all the money. But it does not work this way. Believe us, we all have tried to be greedy and then nothing happened. So Do Not try to change anything other than what is instructed. Because if you do, it will not work for you. Remember, honesty reaps the reward!!! 1.... After you have ordered all 5 reports, take this advertisement and REMOVE the name & address of the person in REPORT # 5. This person has made it through the cycle and is no doubt counting their fortune. 2.... Move the name & address in REPORT # 4 down TO REPORT # 5. 3.... Move the name & address in REPORT # 3 down TO REPORT # 4. 4.... Move the name & address in REPORT # 2 down TO REPORT # 3. 5.... Move the name & address in REPORT # 1 down TO REPORT # 2 6.... Insert YOUR name & address in the REPORT # 1 Position. PLEASE MAKE SURE you copy every name & address ACCURATELY ! ========================================================= **** Take this entire letter ( with the modified list of names) and save it on your computer. DO NOT MAKE ANY OTHER CHANGES. Save this on a disk as well just in case if you loose any data. **** To assist you with marketing your business on the internet, the 5 reports you purchase will provide you with invaluable marketing information which includes how to send bulk e-mails legally, where to find thousands of free classified ads and much more. There are 2 Primary methods to get this venture going: METHOD # 1 : BY SENDING BULK E-MAIL LEGALLY ============================================ let's say that you decide to start small, just to see how it goes, and we will assume You and and those involved send out only 5,000 e-mails each. Let's also assume that the mailing receive only a 0.2% response (the response could be much better but lets just say it is only 0.2% . Also many people will send out hundreds of thousands e-mails instead of only 5,000 each). Continuing with this example, you send out only 5,000 e-mails. With a 0.2% response, that is only 10 orders for report # 1. Those 10 people responded by sending out 5,000 e-mail each for a total of 50,000. Out of those 50,000 e-mails only 0.2% responded with orders. That's = 100 people responded and ordered Report # 2. Those 100 people mail out 5,000 e-mails each for a total of 500,000 e-mails. The 0.2% response to that is 1000 orders for Report # 3. Those 1000 people send out 5,000 e-mails each for a total of 5 million e-mails sent out. The 0.2% response to that is 10,000 orders for Report # 4. Those 10,000 people send out 5,000 e-mails each for a total of 50,000,000 (50 million) e-mails. The 0.2% response to that is 100,000 orders for Report # 5. (there are over 170 million people on the internet worldwide and about 30,000 more new customers signs up everyday). THAT'S 100,000 ORDERS TIMES $5 EACH = $500,000.00 (half million). Your total income in this example is: 1..... $50 + 2..... $500+ 3..... $5,000 + 4..... $50,000 + 5..... $500,000 ......... Grand Total = $555,550.00 NUMBERS DO NOT LIE. GET A PENCIL & PAPER AND FIGURE OUT THE WORST POSSIBLE RESPONSES AND NO MATTER HOW YOU CALCULATE IT, YOU WILL STILL MAKE A LOT OF MONEY ! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- REMEMBER FRIEND, THIS IS ASSUMING ONLY 10 PEOPLE ORDERING OUT OF 5,000 YOU MAILED TO. Dare to think for a moment what would happen if everyone, or half or even one 4th of those people mailed 100,000 e-mails each or more? There are over 150 million people on the internet worldwide and counting. Believe me, many people will do just that, and more! METHOD # 2 : BY PLACING FREE ADS ON THE INTERNET =================================================== Advertising on the net is very very inexpensive and there are hundreds of FREE places to advertise. Placing a lot of free ads on the internet will easily get a larger response. We strongly suggest you start with Method # 1 and add METHOD # 2 as you go along. For every $5 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them the Report they ordered. That's it . Always provide same day service on all orders. This will guarantee that the e-mail they send out, with your name and address on it, will be prompt because they can not advertise until they receive the report. ___________________________ AVAILABLE REPORTS ___________________________ ORDER EACH REPORT BY ITS NUMBER & NAME ONLY. Notes: Always send $5 cash (U.S. CURRENCY) for each Report. Checks NOT accepted. Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in atleast 2 sheets of paper. On one of those sheets of paper, Write the NUMBER & the NAME of the Report you are ordering, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS and your name and postal address. PLACE YOUR ORDER FOR THESE REPORTS NOW : ============================================== REPORT # 1 : "HOW TO MAKE$250,000 THROUGH MULTI-LEVEL SALES" Order Report # 1 from: HOT VACATIONS 59 Corliss Crescent Winnipeg, MB, Canada R2C 4S6 __________________________________________________ REPORT # 2 : ''The Insider's Guide to Sending Bulk e-mail on the Net'' Order Report # 2 from : JF ENTERPRISES 356 Arthur Street Suite 2 E Freeport Harbor, NY 11520-5636 __________________________________________________ REPORT # 3 : ''The Secret to Multilevel marketing on the net'' Order Report # 3 from: Wesco Information & Distribution 1017 Ash Ave Cottage Grove, Oregon 97424 U.S.A. __________________________________________________ REPORT # 4 : ''How to become a millionaire utilizing MLM & the Net'' Order Report # 4 from: P.S. MUSIC ENT. 34 MORGAN ST. NEW ROCHELLE, NY 10805-1225 U.S.A. ___________________________________________________ REPORT # 5 : ''HOW TO SEND 1 MILLION E-MAILS FOR FREE'' Order Report # 5 from: Maria Z. BENITO'S 24 DIVISION ST. NEW ROCHELLE, NY 10801 U.S.A. ___________________________________________________ $$$$$$$$$ YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINES $$$$$$$$$$$ Follow these guidelines to guarantee your sucess: *** If you do not receive atleast 15 orders for Report #1 within 2 weeks, continue sending e-mails until you do. Your target should be to receive atleast 20 orders for Report # 1 within 2 - 3 weeks of your mailing to be on the safe side. Because some people will do nothing after they sent you $5 for Report # 1 due to lack of enthusiasm or lack of desire to become a millionaire by end of 2000. We suggest you continue sending e-mails until you have attained the basic goal. *** After you have received 15 - 20 orders for Report # 1, then 2 to 3 weeks after that you should receive atleast 100 orders or more for Report # 2. If you did not, continue sending mails until you do. *** Once you have received 100 or more orders for Report # 2, YOU CAN RELAX, because the system is already working for you , and the cash will continue to roll in ! THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER : Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed in front of a Different report. You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching which report people are ordering from you. IF YOU WANT TO GENERATE MORE INCOME SEND ANOTHER BATCH OF E-MAILS AND START THE WHOLE PROCESS AGAIN. There is NO LIMIT to the income you can generate from this business !!! ______________________________________________________ FOLLOWING IS A NOTE FROM THE ORIGINATOR OF THIS PROGRAM: "" You have just received information that can give you financial freedom for the rest of your life, with NO RISK and JUST A LITTLE BIT OF EFFORT. You can make more money ion the next few weeks and months than you have ever imagined. Follow the program EXACTLY AS INSTRUCTED. Do Not change it in any way. It works exceedingly well as it is now. Remember to e-mail a copy of this exciting report after you have put your name and address in Report #1 and moved others to #2 ...........# 5 as instructed above. One of the people you send this to may send out 100,000 or more e-mails and your name will be on everyone of them. Remember though, the more you send out the more potential customers you will reach. So my friend, I have given you the ideas, information, materials and opportunity to become financially independent. IT IS UP TO YOU NOW ! ************** MORE TESTIMONIALS **************** '' My name is Mitchell. My wife , Jody and I live in Chicago. I am an accountant with a major U.S. Corporation and I make pretty good money. When I received this program I grumbled to Jody about receiving ''junk mail''. I made fun of the whole thing, spouting my knowledge of the population and percentages involved. I ''knew'' it would'nt work. Jody totally ignored my supposed intelligence and few days later she jumped in with both feet. I made merciless fun of her, and was ready to lay the old ''I told you so'' on her when the thing didn't work. Well, the laugh was on me! Within 3 weeks she had received 50 responses. Within the next 45 days she had received total $ 147,200.00 ........... all cash! I was shocked. I have joined Jody in her ''hobby''. Mitchell Wolf M.D. , Chicago, Illinois ------------------------------------------------------------ '' Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make up my mind to participate in this plan. But conservative that I am, I decided that the initial investment was so little that there was just no way that I wouldn't get enough orders to atleast get my money back''. '' I was surprised when I found my medium size post office box crammed with orders. I made $319,210.00 in the first 12 weeks. The nice thing about this deal is that it does not matter where people live. There simply isn't a better investment with a faster return and so big''. Dan Sondstrom, Alberta, Canada ----------------------------------------------------------- '' I had received this program before. I deleted it, but later I wondered if I should have given it a try. Of course, I had no no idea who to contact to get another copy, so I had to wait until I was e-mailed again by someone else.........11 months passed then it luckily came again...... I did not delete this one! I made more than $490,000 on my first try and all the money came within 22 weeks''. Susan De Suza, New York, N.Y. ---------------------------------------------------- ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO FINANCIAL FREEDOM ! If you have any questions of the legality of this program, contact the Office of Associate Director for Marketing Practices, Federal Trade Commission, Bureau of Consumer Protection, Washington, D.C. ONE TIME MAILING, NO NEED TO REMOVE This message is sent in compliance of the proposed bill SECTION 301. per Section 301, Pragraph (a)(2)(C) of S. 1618. Further transmission to you by the sender of this e-mail may be stopped at no cost to you by sending a reply with the word Remove in the subject line. This message is not intended for residents in the State of Washigton, screening of addresses has been done to the best of our technical ability. E N D IMPORTANT: To Be removed please send a BLANK reply to: mailto:_money101_ at excite.ca?subject=remove From jd at fbi.gov Sat Jul 7 03:19:27 2001 From: jd at fbi.gov (John Doe #2) Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 03:19:27 -0700 Subject: Black Bloc on Broadway Message-ID: <3B46E22F.12CAA4E4@black.org> At 04:52 PM 7/6/01 -0400, Faustine wrote: > >A few acts of vandalism isn't exactly anything I'd call significant. Yes the smells-like-teen-spirit-'anarchists' are good for little more than a laugh, though they're setting themselves up as the next domestic boogeymen after the militia fades from view. The Bloc is just a rung on the career ladder of an up and coming Fed. Easy meat, low hanging fruit, teenagers strung out from Robo sessions 'cause Jenna has their fake ID. The Earth First and ALF folks are a little more effective, and direct, and a lot less theatrical ---though leaving a golf ball with a circle-A on it after you torch a place is a cute, if risky, touch. They are more righteous, too; the anti-WTO folks are all about simple, dirty money. Yawn. EF/ALF can approach religious zealousness, though no one has intentionally self-martyr'd yet. >it's kind of sad that you really think anyone with real power and influence >actually gives a damn about anything that happens at these protests to >begin with. Its sadder actually to consider the mindset of the protesters who take themselves seriously. Maybe the Feds will arrange to have more entertaining MTV broadcast during the next Summits, to keep Biff & Buffy home. 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Also, the 'black bloc' tactic has 'premeditated' written all over it. I'd say these kids haven't provided more protection for themselves; on the contrary, they've raised the stakes. The cops will have to arrest *more* people in order to deal with the bloc, but the people arrested when it happens are going to be charged with more serious crimes, like racketeering, conspiracy, and membership in a corrupt organization, than if they'd stuck with the simpler tactics. And most of what they might otherwise have claimed as defenses are going to crumble under that 'premeditation' thing. I'm not a lawyer, and I don't play one on TV, but this just looks like a silly mistake that's going to bite them in the butt to me. Bear From increaseyourpower at yahoo.com Sat Jul 7 11:43:36 2001 From: increaseyourpower at yahoo.com (Destiny) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 11:43:36 -0700 Subject: SIX FIGURE INCOME TRAINING FREE!!!!! No Fees!!! Just Advantages!!!!! Message-ID: <63342001767184336770@yahoo.com> TAKE BACK your LIFE!! FIRE your BOSS, and WORK from HOME!! Why Wait??? FREE Training!! NO FEES!! HUGE $$$$ POTENTIAL!! GREAT OPPORTUNITY!! Your OWN PERSONAL WEBSITE provided!!!!! No Obligation!! ACT NOW!! http://www.quickinfo247.com/1811913/FREE The WEBSITE your BOSS DOESN'T WANT you to KNOW ABOUT!!!!! From decoy at iki.fi Sat Jul 7 03:13:51 2001 From: decoy at iki.fi (Sampo Syreeni) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 13:13:51 +0300 (EEST) Subject: Meatspace anonymity manual In-Reply-To: <874rsq8w6x.fsf@piracy.red-bean.com> Message-ID: On 6 Jul 2001, Craig Brozefsky wrote: >So are you being sarcastic or are you really failing to understand that >Black Blocs are a short-term tactic for possibly illegal operations on the >street in an environment full of police, and not some demonstrative symbol >of anarchist philosophy representing their vision of society? I would have to be flatlining pretty bad in order not to see that. But as the protection afforded by Black Blocs is quite thin (just indict them under organized crime or gang laws), the excercise has publicity stunt written all over it, and they *are* still undeniably broadcasting a message telling Black Blockers are willing to operate in ways diametrically opposed to the core anachist ideology, the whole thing seems both clueless and untrustworthy. I think those are precisely the criteria sarcasm was invented to be applied by. Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy, mailto:decoy at iki.fi, gsm: +358-50-5756111 student/math+cs/helsinki university, http://www.iki.fi/~decoy/front From decoy at iki.fi Sat Jul 7 03:13:51 2001 From: decoy at iki.fi (Sampo Syreeni) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 13:13:51 +0300 (EEST) Subject: Meatspace anonymity manual In-Reply-To: <874rsq8w6x.fsf@piracy.red-bean.com> Message-ID: On 6 Jul 2001, Craig Brozefsky wrote: >So are you being sarcastic or are you really failing to understand that >Black Blocs are a short-term tactic for possibly illegal operations on the >street in an environment full of police, and not some demonstrative symbol >of anarchist philosophy representing their vision of society? I would have to be flatlining pretty bad in order not to see that. But as the protection afforded by Black Blocs is quite thin (just indict them under organized crime or gang laws), the excercise has publicity stunt written all over it, and they *are* still undeniably broadcasting a message telling Black Blockers are willing to operate in ways diametrically opposed to the core anachist ideology, the whole thing seems both clueless and untrustworthy. I think those are precisely the criteria sarcasm was invented to be applied by. Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy, mailto:decoy at iki.fi, gsm: +358-50-5756111 student/math+cs/helsinki university, http://www.iki.fi/~decoy/front From High_Profits at hotmail.com Sat Jul 7 11:43:24 2001 From: High_Profits at hotmail.com (High_Profits at hotmail.com) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 13:43:24 -0500 Subject: Message-ID: <200107072126.f67LQQj01488@rigel.cyberpass.net> This will only take a few minutes of your time to read. If you read it and think it is a scam then delete this email and thank you for your time. I, however, don't believe you will delete it once you read everything it has to say. _________________________________________________________________________ Here is the information you requested. This is not spam. You are receiving this e-mail because you or someone else requested this information. IF YOU FEEL YOU HAVE RECIEVED THIS EMAIL IN ERROR, OR HAVE NOT SIGNED UP TO RECIEVE OPT-IN EMAIL, PLEASE REPLY TO THIS EMAIL WITH 'REMOVE' IN THE SUBJECT LINE. WE DO NOT SUPPORT THE SENDING OF UNSOLICITED E-MAILS. _________________________________________________________________________ WORK AT HOME USING YOUR COMPUTER!!! _________________________________________________________________________ Dear Friend, You can earn $46,000 or more in next the 6 months sending e-mail. Seem impossible? Read on for details (no, there is no "catch")... _________________________________________________________________________ "AS SEEN ON NATIONAL T.V." Thank you for your time and Interest. This is the letter you've been reading about in the news lately. Due to the popularity of this letter on the internet, a major nightly news program recently devoted an entire show to the investigation of the program described below, to see if it really can make people money. The show also investigated whether or not the program was legal. Their findings proved once and for all that there are, absolutely no laws prohibiting the participation in the program. This has helped to show people that this is a simple, harmless and fun way to make some extra money at home. The results of this show has been truly remarkable. So many people are participating that those involved are doing, much better than ever before. Since everyone makes more as more people try it out, its been very exciting to be a part of this lately. You will understand once you experience it. "HERE IT IS BELOW" _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ *** Print This Now For Future Reference *** The following income opportunity is one you may be interested in taking a look at. It can be started with VERY LITTLE investment and the income return is TREMENDOUS!!! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ If you would like to make at least $46,000 in less than 6 months! Please read the enclosed program...THEN READ IT AGAIN!!! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ THIS IS A LEGITIMATE, LEGAL, MONEY MAKING OPPORTUNITY. It does not require you to come into contact with people, do any hard work, and best of all, you never have to leave the house except to get the mail. If you believe that someday you'll get that big break that you've been waiting for, THIS IS IT! Simply follow the instructions, and your dreams will come true. This multi-level e-mail order marketing program works perfectly...100% EVERY TIME. E-mail is the sales tool of the future. Take advantage of this non-commercialized method of advertising NOW!!! The longer you wait, the more people will be doing business using e-mail. Get your piece of this action!!! MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING (MLM) has finally gained respectability. It is being taught in the Harvard Business School, and both Stanford Research and the Wall Street Journal have stated that between 50% and 65% of all goods and services will be sold through multi-level methods by the mid to late 1990's. This is a Multi-Billion Dollar industry and of the 3,500,000 millionaires in the WORLD, 20% ( 700,000) made their fortune in the last several years in MLM. Moreover, statistics show that over 100 people become millionaires everyday through Multi-Level Marketing. You may have heard this story before, but over the summer Donald Trump (A MULTI-BILLIONAIRE, ONE OF THE WEALTHIEST MEN IN THE WORLD) made an appearance on the David Letterman show. Dave asked him what he would do if he lost everything and had to start over from scratch. Without hesitating, Trump said he would find a good network marketing company and get to work. The audience started to hoot and boo him. He looked out at the audience and dead-panned his response "That's why I'm sitting up here and you are all sitting out there!" With network marketing you have two sources of income. Direct commissions from sales you make yourself and commissions from sales made by people you introduce to the business. Residual income is the secret of the wealthy. It means investing time or money once and getting paid again and again and again. In network marketing, it also means getting paid for the work of others. This program is currently being utilized in more than 50 different countries across the world. The middle class was vanishing. Those who knew what they were doing invested wisely and moved up. Those who did not, including those who never had anything to save or invest, were moving down into the ranks of the poor. As the saying goes, "THE RICH GET RICHER AND THE POOR GET POORER." The traditional methods of making money will never allow you to "move up" or "get rich", inflation will see to that. You have just received INF0RMATION that can give you financial freedom for the rest of your life, with "NO RISK" and "JUST A LITTLE BIT OF EFFORT." You can make more money in the next few months than you have ever imagined. Follow the program EXACTLY AS INSTRUCTED. Do not change it in any way. It works exceedingly well as it is now. Remember to e-mail a copy of this exciting report to everyone you can think of. One of the people you send this to may send out 100,000 or more...and your name will be on everyone of them! Remember though, the more you send out the more potential customers you will reach. So my friend, I have given you the ideas, INF0RMATION, materials and opportunity to become financially independent, IT IS UP TO YOU NOW! "THINK ABOUT IT" Before you delete this program from your mailbox, as I almost did, take a little time to read it and REALLY THINK ABOUT IT. Get a pencil and figure out what could happen when YOU participate. Figure out the worst possible response and no matter how you calculate it, you will still make a lot of money! You will definitely get back what you invested. Any doubts you have will vanish when your first orders come in. IT WORKS! HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PROGRAM WILL MAKE YOU THOUSANDS OF DOLLAR$ INSTRUCTIONS: This method of raising capital REALLY WORKS 100% EVERY TIME. I am sure that you could use up to $46,000 or more in the next 6 months. Before you say "BULL... ", please read this program carefully. This is not a chain letter, but a perfectly legal money making opportunity. Basically, this is what you do: As with all multi-level businesses, we build our business by recruiting new partners and selling our products. Because of the global nature of the internet, you will be able to recruit new multi-level business partners from all over the world, and we offer a product for EVERY dollar sent. YOUR ORDERS COME BY MAIL AND ARE FILLED BY E-MAIL, so you are not involved in personal selling. You do it privately in your own home, store or office. This is the GREATEST Multi-Level Mail Order Marketing anywhere. This is what you MUST do: 1. Order all 5 reports shown on the list below (you can't sell them if you don't order them). a. For each report, send $5.00 CASH, the NAME & NUMBER OF THE REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS, and YOUR NAME & RETURN ADDRESS (in case of a problem) to the person whose name appears on the list next to the report. MAKE SURE YOUR RETURN ADDRESS IS ON YOUR ENVELOPE IN CASE OF ANY MAIL PROBLEMS! b. When you place your order, make sure you order each of the five reports. You will need all five reports so that you can save them on your computer and resell them. c. Within a few days you will receive, via e-mail, each of the five reports. Save them on your computer so they will be accessible for you to send to the 1,000's of people who will order them from you. 2. IMPORTANT-- DO NOT alter the names of the people who are listed next to each report, or their sequence on the list, in any way other than is instructed below in steps "a" through "g" or you will lose out on the majority of your profits. Once you understand the way this works, you'll also see how it doesn't work if you change it. Remember, this method has been tested, and if you alter it, it will not work. a. Look below for the listing of available reports. b. After you've ordered the five reports, take this advertisement and REM0VE the name and address under REPORT #5. This person has made it through the cycle and is no doubt counting their $46,000! Also, change the name of the company, the address, and the REM0VE e-mail address on the top of this document to your own. c. Move the name and address under REPORT #4 down to REPORT #5. d. Move the name and address under REPORT #3 down to REPORT #4. e. Move the name and address under REPORT #2 down to REPORT #3. f. Move the name and address under REPORT #1 down to REPORT #2. g. Insert your name/address in the REPORT #1 position. Please make sure you copy every name and address ACCURATELY! 3. Take this entire letter, including the modified list of names, and save it to your computer. Make NO changes to the instruction portion of this letter. Your cost to participate in this is practically nothing (surely you can afford $25). You obviously already have an Internet connection and e-mail is FREE! To assist you with marketing your business on the internet, the 5 reports you purchase will provide you with invaluable marketing INF0RMATION which includes how to send bulk e-mails, where to find thousands of free classified ads and much, much more. There are two primary methods of building your downline: METHOD #1: SENDING BULK E-MAIL Let's say that you decide to start small, just to see how it goes, and we'll assume you and all those involved send out only 2,000 programs each. Let's also assume that the mailing receives a 0.3% response. Using a good list the response could be much better. Also, many people will send out hundreds of thousands of programs instead of 2,000. But continuing with this example, you send out only 2,000 programs. With a 0.3% response, that is only 6 orders for REPORT #1. Those 6 people respond by sending out 2,000 programs each for a total of 12,000. Out of those 0.3%, 36 people respond and order REPORT #2. Those 36 mail out 2,000 programs each for a total of 72,000. The 0.3% response to that is 216 orders for REPORT #3. Those 216 send out 2,000 programs each for a 432,000 total. The 0.3% response to that is 1,296 orders for REPORT #4. Those 1,296 send out 2,000 programs each for a 2,592,000 total. The 0.3% response to that is 7,776 orders for REPORT #5. That's 7,776 $5 bills for you, CASH!!! Your total income in this example is $30 + $180 + $1,080+ $6,480 + $38,880 for a total of $46,650!!! REMEMBER DEAR READER, THIS IS ASSUMING 1,994 OUT OF THE 2,000 PEOPLE YOU MAIL TO WILL DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AND TRASH THIS PROGRAM! DARE TO THINK FOR A MOMENT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF EVERYONE, OR HALF SENT OUT 100,000 PROGRAMS INSTEAD OF 2,000. Believe me, many people will do just that, and more! By the way, your cost to participate in this is practically nothing. You obviously already have an internet connection and e-mail is FREE!!! REPORT #2 and #5 will show you the best methods for bulk emailing, tell you where to obtain free bulk e-mail software and where to obtain e-mail lists and show you how to send out 1,000,000 e-mails for free. METHOD #2 - PLACING FREE ADS ON THE INTERNET 1. Advertising on the 'Net is very, very inexpensive, and there are HUNDREDS of FREE places to advertise. Let's say you decide to start small just to see how well it works. Assume your goal is to get ONLY 6 people to participate on your first level. (Placing a lot of FREE ads on the internet will EASILY get a larger response.) Also assume that everyone else in YOUR ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 6 downline members. Follow this example to achieve the STAGGERING results below. 1st level--your 6 members with $5 ($5 x 6)........................$30 2nd level--6 members from those 6 ($5 x 36)....................$180 3rd level--6 members from those 36 ($5 x 216)............ $1,080 4th level--6 members from those 216 ($5 x 1,296)....... $6,480 5th level-6 members from those 1,296 ($5 x 7,776)... $38,880 ..................................................$46,650 _________________________________________________________________________ Remember friends, this assumes that the people who participate only recruit 6 people each. Think for a moment what would happen if they got 20 people to participate! Many people will get 100's of participants! THINK ABOUT IT! For every $5.00 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them the report they ordered. THAT'S IT! ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS! This will guarantee that the e-mail THEY send out, with YOUR name and address on it, will be prompt because they can't advertise until they receive the report! _________________________________________________________________________ AVAILABLE REPORTS _________________________________________________________________________ *** Order Each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME *** Notes: ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH (U.S. CURRENCY) FOR EACH REPORT CHECKS NOT ACCEPTED ALWAYS SEND YOUR ORDER VIA FIRST CLASS MAIL Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least two sheets of paper. On one of those sheets of paper, include: (a) the number & name of the report you are ordering, (b) your e-mail address, and (c) your name & postal address. It's best to type this to avoid mistakes. PLACE YOUR ORDER FOR THESE REPORTS NOW: ______________________________________________________ REPORT #1 "The Insider's Guide to Advertising for Free on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #1 FROM: Stan LeFeber 1353 11th St. Slidell, LA 70458 ______________________________________________________ REPORT #2 "The Insider's Guide to Sending Bulk E-mail on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #2 FROM: Mrs. Paula Bowen 207 North Carolina Circle Mocksville, NC 27028 ______________________________________________________ REPORT #3 "The Secrets to Multilevel Marketing on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #3 FROM: Kimberly Fleming #936 c/o Landbase Australia Locked Bag 25 Gosford NSW 2250 Australia ______________________________________________________ REPORT #4 "How to become a Millionaire utilizing the Power of Multilevel Marketing and the Internet" ORDER REPORT #4 FROM: Destiny 2001 1105 Amble Lane Clearwater, FL 33755 ______________________________________________________ REPORT #5 "How to SEND 1,000,000 e-mails for FREE" ORDER REPORT #5 FROM: Kevin Zonner 166 Sherman Road Beaver Falls, PA 15010-9724 ______________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________ There currently more than 175,000,000 people online worldwide! ******* TIPS FOR SUCCESS ******* * TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS! Be prompt, professional, and follow the directions accurately. * Send for the five reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have them when the orders start coming in because: When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the requested product/report. * ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE. * Be patient and persistent with this program. If you follow the instructions exactly, your results WILL BE SUCCESSFUL! * ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL SUCCEED! ******* YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINES ******* Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success: If you don't receive 20 orders for REPORT #1 within two weeks, continue advertising or sending e-mails until you do. Then, a couple of weeks later you should receive at least 100 orders for REPORT#2. If you don't, continue advertising or sending e-mails until you do. Once you have received 100 or more orders for REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX, because the system is already working for you, and the cash will continue to roll in! THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER: Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed in front of a DIFFERENT report. You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching which report people are ordering from you. If you want to generate more income, send another batch of e-mails or continue placing ads and start the whole process again! There is no limit to the income you will generate from this business! Before you make your decision as to whether or not you participate in this program. Please answer one question. DO YOU WANT TO CHANGE YOUR LIFE? If the answer is yes, please look at the following facts about this program: 1. YOU ARE SELLING A PRODUCT WHICH DOES NOT COST ANYTHING TO PRODUCE! 2. YOU ARE SELLING A PRODUCT WHICH DOES NOT COST ANYTHING TO SHIP! 3. YOU ARE SELLING A PRODUCT WHICH DOES NOT COST YOU ANYTHING TO ADVERTISE! 4. YOU ARE UTILIZING THE POWER OF THE INTERNET AND THE POWER OF MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING TO DISTRIBUTE YOUR PRODUCT ALL OVER THE WORLD! 5. YOUR ONLY EXPENSES OTHER THAN YOUR INITIAL $25 INVESTMENT IS YOUR TIME! 6. VIRTUALLY ALL OF THE INCOME YOU GENERATE FROM THIS PROGRAM IS PURE PROFIT! ********************************************* ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO FINANCIAL FREEDOM! NOW IS THE TIME FOR YOUR TURN. DECISIVE ACTION YIELDS POWERFUL RESULTS. _________________________________________________________________________ PLEASE NOTE: If you need help with starting a business, registering a business name, learning how income tax is handled, etc., contact your local office of the Small Business Administration (a Federal agency) 1(800) 827-5722 for free help and answers to questions. Also, the Internal Revenue Service offers free help via telephone and free seminars about business tax requirements. Your earnings and results are highly dependant on your activities and advertising. This letter constitutes no guarantees stated nor implied. In the event that it is determined that this letter constitutes a guarantee of any kind, that guarantee is now void. Any testimonials or amounts of earnings listed in this letter may be factual or non-verifiable. If you have any question of the legality of this letter contact the Office of Associate Director for Marketing Practices Federal Trade Commission Bureau of Consumer Protection in Washington DC. _________________________________________________________________________ From High_Profits at hotmail.com Sat Jul 7 11:43:37 2001 From: High_Profits at hotmail.com (High_Profits at hotmail.com) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 13:43:37 -0500 Subject: Message-ID: <200107071813.LAA20552@ecotone.toad.com> This will only take a few minutes of your time to read. If you read it and think it is a scam then delete this email and thank you for your time. I, however, don't believe you will delete it once you read everything it has to say. _________________________________________________________________________ Here is the information you requested. This is not spam. You are receiving this e-mail because you or someone else requested this information. IF YOU FEEL YOU HAVE RECIEVED THIS EMAIL IN ERROR, OR HAVE NOT SIGNED UP TO RECIEVE OPT-IN EMAIL, PLEASE REPLY TO THIS EMAIL WITH 'REMOVE' IN THE SUBJECT LINE. WE DO NOT SUPPORT THE SENDING OF UNSOLICITED E-MAILS. _________________________________________________________________________ WORK AT HOME USING YOUR COMPUTER!!! _________________________________________________________________________ Dear Friend, You can earn $46,000 or more in next the 6 months sending e-mail. Seem impossible? Read on for details (no, there is no "catch")... _________________________________________________________________________ "AS SEEN ON NATIONAL T.V." Thank you for your time and Interest. This is the letter you've been reading about in the news lately. Due to the popularity of this letter on the internet, a major nightly news program recently devoted an entire show to the investigation of the program described below, to see if it really can make people money. The show also investigated whether or not the program was legal. Their findings proved once and for all that there are, absolutely no laws prohibiting the participation in the program. This has helped to show people that this is a simple, harmless and fun way to make some extra money at home. The results of this show has been truly remarkable. So many people are participating that those involved are doing, much better than ever before. Since everyone makes more as more people try it out, its been very exciting to be a part of this lately. You will understand once you experience it. "HERE IT IS BELOW" _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ *** Print This Now For Future Reference *** The following income opportunity is one you may be interested in taking a look at. It can be started with VERY LITTLE investment and the income return is TREMENDOUS!!! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ If you would like to make at least $46,000 in less than 6 months! Please read the enclosed program...THEN READ IT AGAIN!!! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ THIS IS A LEGITIMATE, LEGAL, MONEY MAKING OPPORTUNITY. It does not require you to come into contact with people, do any hard work, and best of all, you never have to leave the house except to get the mail. If you believe that someday you'll get that big break that you've been waiting for, THIS IS IT! Simply follow the instructions, and your dreams will come true. This multi-level e-mail order marketing program works perfectly...100% EVERY TIME. E-mail is the sales tool of the future. Take advantage of this non-commercialized method of advertising NOW!!! The longer you wait, the more people will be doing business using e-mail. Get your piece of this action!!! MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING (MLM) has finally gained respectability. It is being taught in the Harvard Business School, and both Stanford Research and the Wall Street Journal have stated that between 50% and 65% of all goods and services will be sold through multi-level methods by the mid to late 1990's. This is a Multi-Billion Dollar industry and of the 3,500,000 millionaires in the WORLD, 20% ( 700,000) made their fortune in the last several years in MLM. Moreover, statistics show that over 100 people become millionaires everyday through Multi-Level Marketing. You may have heard this story before, but over the summer Donald Trump (A MULTI-BILLIONAIRE, ONE OF THE WEALTHIEST MEN IN THE WORLD) made an appearance on the David Letterman show. Dave asked him what he would do if he lost everything and had to start over from scratch. Without hesitating, Trump said he would find a good network marketing company and get to work. The audience started to hoot and boo him. He looked out at the audience and dead-panned his response "That's why I'm sitting up here and you are all sitting out there!" With network marketing you have two sources of income. Direct commissions from sales you make yourself and commissions from sales made by people you introduce to the business. Residual income is the secret of the wealthy. It means investing time or money once and getting paid again and again and again. In network marketing, it also means getting paid for the work of others. This program is currently being utilized in more than 50 different countries across the world. The middle class was vanishing. Those who knew what they were doing invested wisely and moved up. Those who did not, including those who never had anything to save or invest, were moving down into the ranks of the poor. As the saying goes, "THE RICH GET RICHER AND THE POOR GET POORER." The traditional methods of making money will never allow you to "move up" or "get rich", inflation will see to that. You have just received INF0RMATION that can give you financial freedom for the rest of your life, with "NO RISK" and "JUST A LITTLE BIT OF EFFORT." You can make more money in the next few months than you have ever imagined. Follow the program EXACTLY AS INSTRUCTED. Do not change it in any way. It works exceedingly well as it is now. Remember to e-mail a copy of this exciting report to everyone you can think of. One of the people you send this to may send out 100,000 or more...and your name will be on everyone of them! Remember though, the more you send out the more potential customers you will reach. So my friend, I have given you the ideas, INF0RMATION, materials and opportunity to become financially independent, IT IS UP TO YOU NOW! "THINK ABOUT IT" Before you delete this program from your mailbox, as I almost did, take a little time to read it and REALLY THINK ABOUT IT. Get a pencil and figure out what could happen when YOU participate. Figure out the worst possible response and no matter how you calculate it, you will still make a lot of money! You will definitely get back what you invested. Any doubts you have will vanish when your first orders come in. IT WORKS! HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PROGRAM WILL MAKE YOU THOUSANDS OF DOLLAR$ INSTRUCTIONS: This method of raising capital REALLY WORKS 100% EVERY TIME. I am sure that you could use up to $46,000 or more in the next 6 months. Before you say "BULL... ", please read this program carefully. This is not a chain letter, but a perfectly legal money making opportunity. Basically, this is what you do: As with all multi-level businesses, we build our business by recruiting new partners and selling our products. Because of the global nature of the internet, you will be able to recruit new multi-level business partners from all over the world, and we offer a product for EVERY dollar sent. YOUR ORDERS COME BY MAIL AND ARE FILLED BY E-MAIL, so you are not involved in personal selling. You do it privately in your own home, store or office. This is the GREATEST Multi-Level Mail Order Marketing anywhere. This is what you MUST do: 1. Order all 5 reports shown on the list below (you can't sell them if you don't order them). a. For each report, send $5.00 CASH, the NAME & NUMBER OF THE REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS, and YOUR NAME & RETURN ADDRESS (in case of a problem) to the person whose name appears on the list next to the report. MAKE SURE YOUR RETURN ADDRESS IS ON YOUR ENVELOPE IN CASE OF ANY MAIL PROBLEMS! b. When you place your order, make sure you order each of the five reports. You will need all five reports so that you can save them on your computer and resell them. c. Within a few days you will receive, via e-mail, each of the five reports. Save them on your computer so they will be accessible for you to send to the 1,000's of people who will order them from you. 2. IMPORTANT-- DO NOT alter the names of the people who are listed next to each report, or their sequence on the list, in any way other than is instructed below in steps "a" through "g" or you will lose out on the majority of your profits. Once you understand the way this works, you'll also see how it doesn't work if you change it. Remember, this method has been tested, and if you alter it, it will not work. a. Look below for the listing of available reports. b. After you've ordered the five reports, take this advertisement and REM0VE the name and address under REPORT #5. This person has made it through the cycle and is no doubt counting their $46,000! Also, change the name of the company, the address, and the REM0VE e-mail address on the top of this document to your own. c. Move the name and address under REPORT #4 down to REPORT #5. d. Move the name and address under REPORT #3 down to REPORT #4. e. Move the name and address under REPORT #2 down to REPORT #3. f. Move the name and address under REPORT #1 down to REPORT #2. g. Insert your name/address in the REPORT #1 position. Please make sure you copy every name and address ACCURATELY! 3. Take this entire letter, including the modified list of names, and save it to your computer. Make NO changes to the instruction portion of this letter. Your cost to participate in this is practically nothing (surely you can afford $25). You obviously already have an Internet connection and e-mail is FREE! To assist you with marketing your business on the internet, the 5 reports you purchase will provide you with invaluable marketing INF0RMATION which includes how to send bulk e-mails, where to find thousands of free classified ads and much, much more. There are two primary methods of building your downline: METHOD #1: SENDING BULK E-MAIL Let's say that you decide to start small, just to see how it goes, and we'll assume you and all those involved send out only 2,000 programs each. Let's also assume that the mailing receives a 0.3% response. Using a good list the response could be much better. Also, many people will send out hundreds of thousands of programs instead of 2,000. But continuing with this example, you send out only 2,000 programs. With a 0.3% response, that is only 6 orders for REPORT #1. Those 6 people respond by sending out 2,000 programs each for a total of 12,000. Out of those 0.3%, 36 people respond and order REPORT #2. Those 36 mail out 2,000 programs each for a total of 72,000. The 0.3% response to that is 216 orders for REPORT #3. Those 216 send out 2,000 programs each for a 432,000 total. The 0.3% response to that is 1,296 orders for REPORT #4. Those 1,296 send out 2,000 programs each for a 2,592,000 total. The 0.3% response to that is 7,776 orders for REPORT #5. That's 7,776 $5 bills for you, CASH!!! Your total income in this example is $30 + $180 + $1,080+ $6,480 + $38,880 for a total of $46,650!!! REMEMBER DEAR READER, THIS IS ASSUMING 1,994 OUT OF THE 2,000 PEOPLE YOU MAIL TO WILL DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AND TRASH THIS PROGRAM! DARE TO THINK FOR A MOMENT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF EVERYONE, OR HALF SENT OUT 100,000 PROGRAMS INSTEAD OF 2,000. Believe me, many people will do just that, and more! By the way, your cost to participate in this is practically nothing. You obviously already have an internet connection and e-mail is FREE!!! REPORT #2 and #5 will show you the best methods for bulk emailing, tell you where to obtain free bulk e-mail software and where to obtain e-mail lists and show you how to send out 1,000,000 e-mails for free. METHOD #2 - PLACING FREE ADS ON THE INTERNET 1. Advertising on the 'Net is very, very inexpensive, and there are HUNDREDS of FREE places to advertise. Let's say you decide to start small just to see how well it works. Assume your goal is to get ONLY 6 people to participate on your first level. (Placing a lot of FREE ads on the internet will EASILY get a larger response.) Also assume that everyone else in YOUR ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 6 downline members. Follow this example to achieve the STAGGERING results below. 1st level--your 6 members with $5 ($5 x 6)........................$30 2nd level--6 members from those 6 ($5 x 36)....................$180 3rd level--6 members from those 36 ($5 x 216)............ $1,080 4th level--6 members from those 216 ($5 x 1,296)....... $6,480 5th level-6 members from those 1,296 ($5 x 7,776)... $38,880 ..................................................$46,650 _________________________________________________________________________ Remember friends, this assumes that the people who participate only recruit 6 people each. Think for a moment what would happen if they got 20 people to participate! Many people will get 100's of participants! THINK ABOUT IT! For every $5.00 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them the report they ordered. THAT'S IT! ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS! This will guarantee that the e-mail THEY send out, with YOUR name and address on it, will be prompt because they can't advertise until they receive the report! _________________________________________________________________________ AVAILABLE REPORTS _________________________________________________________________________ *** Order Each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME *** Notes: ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH (U.S. CURRENCY) FOR EACH REPORT CHECKS NOT ACCEPTED ALWAYS SEND YOUR ORDER VIA FIRST CLASS MAIL Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least two sheets of paper. On one of those sheets of paper, include: (a) the number & name of the report you are ordering, (b) your e-mail address, and (c) your name & postal address. It's best to type this to avoid mistakes. PLACE YOUR ORDER FOR THESE REPORTS NOW: ______________________________________________________ REPORT #1 "The Insider's Guide to Advertising for Free on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #1 FROM: Stan LeFeber 1353 11th St. Slidell, LA 70458 ______________________________________________________ REPORT #2 "The Insider's Guide to Sending Bulk E-mail on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #2 FROM: Mrs. Paula Bowen 207 North Carolina Circle Mocksville, NC 27028 ______________________________________________________ REPORT #3 "The Secrets to Multilevel Marketing on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #3 FROM: Kimberly Fleming #936 c/o Landbase Australia Locked Bag 25 Gosford NSW 2250 Australia ______________________________________________________ REPORT #4 "How to become a Millionaire utilizing the Power of Multilevel Marketing and the Internet" ORDER REPORT #4 FROM: Destiny 2001 1105 Amble Lane Clearwater, FL 33755 ______________________________________________________ REPORT #5 "How to SEND 1,000,000 e-mails for FREE" ORDER REPORT #5 FROM: Kevin Zonner 166 Sherman Road Beaver Falls, PA 15010-9724 ______________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________ There currently more than 175,000,000 people online worldwide! ******* TIPS FOR SUCCESS ******* * TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS! Be prompt, professional, and follow the directions accurately. * Send for the five reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have them when the orders start coming in because: When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the requested product/report. * ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE. * Be patient and persistent with this program. If you follow the instructions exactly, your results WILL BE SUCCESSFUL! * ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL SUCCEED! ******* YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINES ******* Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success: If you don't receive 20 orders for REPORT #1 within two weeks, continue advertising or sending e-mails until you do. Then, a couple of weeks later you should receive at least 100 orders for REPORT#2. If you don't, continue advertising or sending e-mails until you do. Once you have received 100 or more orders for REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX, because the system is already working for you, and the cash will continue to roll in! THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER: Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed in front of a DIFFERENT report. You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching which report people are ordering from you. If you want to generate more income, send another batch of e-mails or continue placing ads and start the whole process again! There is no limit to the income you will generate from this business! Before you make your decision as to whether or not you participate in this program. Please answer one question. DO YOU WANT TO CHANGE YOUR LIFE? If the answer is yes, please look at the following facts about this program: 1. YOU ARE SELLING A PRODUCT WHICH DOES NOT COST ANYTHING TO PRODUCE! 2. YOU ARE SELLING A PRODUCT WHICH DOES NOT COST ANYTHING TO SHIP! 3. YOU ARE SELLING A PRODUCT WHICH DOES NOT COST YOU ANYTHING TO ADVERTISE! 4. YOU ARE UTILIZING THE POWER OF THE INTERNET AND THE POWER OF MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING TO DISTRIBUTE YOUR PRODUCT ALL OVER THE WORLD! 5. YOUR ONLY EXPENSES OTHER THAN YOUR INITIAL $25 INVESTMENT IS YOUR TIME! 6. VIRTUALLY ALL OF THE INCOME YOU GENERATE FROM THIS PROGRAM IS PURE PROFIT! ********************************************* ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO FINANCIAL FREEDOM! NOW IS THE TIME FOR YOUR TURN. DECISIVE ACTION YIELDS POWERFUL RESULTS. _________________________________________________________________________ PLEASE NOTE: If you need help with starting a business, registering a business name, learning how income tax is handled, etc., contact your local office of the Small Business Administration (a Federal agency) 1(800) 827-5722 for free help and answers to questions. Also, the Internal Revenue Service offers free help via telephone and free seminars about business tax requirements. Your earnings and results are highly dependant on your activities and advertising. This letter constitutes no guarantees stated nor implied. In the event that it is determined that this letter constitutes a guarantee of any kind, that guarantee is now void. Any testimonials or amounts of earnings listed in this letter may be factual or non-verifiable. If you have any question of the legality of this letter contact the Office of Associate Director for Marketing Practices Federal Trade Commission Bureau of Consumer Protection in Washington DC. _________________________________________________________________________ From High_Profits at hotmail.com Sat Jul 7 11:49:22 2001 From: High_Profits at hotmail.com (High_Profits at hotmail.com) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 13:49:22 -0500 Subject: Message-ID: <200107071839.f67Idax09453@ak47.algebra.com> This will only take a few minutes of your time to read. If you read it and think it is a scam then delete this email and thank you for your time. I, however, don't believe you will delete it once you read everything it has to say. _________________________________________________________________________ Here is the information you requested. This is not spam. You are receiving this e-mail because you or someone else requested this information. IF YOU FEEL YOU HAVE RECIEVED THIS EMAIL IN ERROR, OR HAVE NOT SIGNED UP TO RECIEVE OPT-IN EMAIL, PLEASE REPLY TO THIS EMAIL WITH 'REMOVE' IN THE SUBJECT LINE. WE DO NOT SUPPORT THE SENDING OF UNSOLICITED E-MAILS. _________________________________________________________________________ WORK AT HOME USING YOUR COMPUTER!!! _________________________________________________________________________ Dear Friend, You can earn $46,000 or more in next the 6 months sending e-mail. Seem impossible? Read on for details (no, there is no "catch")... _________________________________________________________________________ "AS SEEN ON NATIONAL T.V." Thank you for your time and Interest. This is the letter you've been reading about in the news lately. Due to the popularity of this letter on the internet, a major nightly news program recently devoted an entire show to the investigation of the program described below, to see if it really can make people money. The show also investigated whether or not the program was legal. Their findings proved once and for all that there are, absolutely no laws prohibiting the participation in the program. This has helped to show people that this is a simple, harmless and fun way to make some extra money at home. The results of this show has been truly remarkable. So many people are participating that those involved are doing, much better than ever before. Since everyone makes more as more people try it out, its been very exciting to be a part of this lately. You will understand once you experience it. "HERE IT IS BELOW" _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ *** Print This Now For Future Reference *** The following income opportunity is one you may be interested in taking a look at. It can be started with VERY LITTLE investment and the income return is TREMENDOUS!!! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ If you would like to make at least $46,000 in less than 6 months! Please read the enclosed program...THEN READ IT AGAIN!!! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ THIS IS A LEGITIMATE, LEGAL, MONEY MAKING OPPORTUNITY. It does not require you to come into contact with people, do any hard work, and best of all, you never have to leave the house except to get the mail. If you believe that someday you'll get that big break that you've been waiting for, THIS IS IT! Simply follow the instructions, and your dreams will come true. This multi-level e-mail order marketing program works perfectly...100% EVERY TIME. E-mail is the sales tool of the future. Take advantage of this non-commercialized method of advertising NOW!!! The longer you wait, the more people will be doing business using e-mail. Get your piece of this action!!! MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING (MLM) has finally gained respectability. It is being taught in the Harvard Business School, and both Stanford Research and the Wall Street Journal have stated that between 50% and 65% of all goods and services will be sold through multi-level methods by the mid to late 1990's. This is a Multi-Billion Dollar industry and of the 3,500,000 millionaires in the WORLD, 20% ( 700,000) made their fortune in the last several years in MLM. Moreover, statistics show that over 100 people become millionaires everyday through Multi-Level Marketing. You may have heard this story before, but over the summer Donald Trump (A MULTI-BILLIONAIRE, ONE OF THE WEALTHIEST MEN IN THE WORLD) made an appearance on the David Letterman show. Dave asked him what he would do if he lost everything and had to start over from scratch. Without hesitating, Trump said he would find a good network marketing company and get to work. The audience started to hoot and boo him. He looked out at the audience and dead-panned his response "That's why I'm sitting up here and you are all sitting out there!" With network marketing you have two sources of income. Direct commissions from sales you make yourself and commissions from sales made by people you introduce to the business. Residual income is the secret of the wealthy. It means investing time or money once and getting paid again and again and again. In network marketing, it also means getting paid for the work of others. This program is currently being utilized in more than 50 different countries across the world. The middle class was vanishing. Those who knew what they were doing invested wisely and moved up. Those who did not, including those who never had anything to save or invest, were moving down into the ranks of the poor. As the saying goes, "THE RICH GET RICHER AND THE POOR GET POORER." The traditional methods of making money will never allow you to "move up" or "get rich", inflation will see to that. You have just received INF0RMATION that can give you financial freedom for the rest of your life, with "NO RISK" and "JUST A LITTLE BIT OF EFFORT." You can make more money in the next few months than you have ever imagined. Follow the program EXACTLY AS INSTRUCTED. Do not change it in any way. It works exceedingly well as it is now. Remember to e-mail a copy of this exciting report to everyone you can think of. One of the people you send this to may send out 100,000 or more...and your name will be on everyone of them! Remember though, the more you send out the more potential customers you will reach. So my friend, I have given you the ideas, INF0RMATION, materials and opportunity to become financially independent, IT IS UP TO YOU NOW! "THINK ABOUT IT" Before you delete this program from your mailbox, as I almost did, take a little time to read it and REALLY THINK ABOUT IT. Get a pencil and figure out what could happen when YOU participate. Figure out the worst possible response and no matter how you calculate it, you will still make a lot of money! You will definitely get back what you invested. Any doubts you have will vanish when your first orders come in. IT WORKS! HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PROGRAM WILL MAKE YOU THOUSANDS OF DOLLAR$ INSTRUCTIONS: This method of raising capital REALLY WORKS 100% EVERY TIME. I am sure that you could use up to $46,000 or more in the next 6 months. Before you say "BULL... ", please read this program carefully. This is not a chain letter, but a perfectly legal money making opportunity. Basically, this is what you do: As with all multi-level businesses, we build our business by recruiting new partners and selling our products. Because of the global nature of the internet, you will be able to recruit new multi-level business partners from all over the world, and we offer a product for EVERY dollar sent. YOUR ORDERS COME BY MAIL AND ARE FILLED BY E-MAIL, so you are not involved in personal selling. You do it privately in your own home, store or office. This is the GREATEST Multi-Level Mail Order Marketing anywhere. This is what you MUST do: 1. Order all 5 reports shown on the list below (you can't sell them if you don't order them). a. For each report, send $5.00 CASH, the NAME & NUMBER OF THE REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS, and YOUR NAME & RETURN ADDRESS (in case of a problem) to the person whose name appears on the list next to the report. MAKE SURE YOUR RETURN ADDRESS IS ON YOUR ENVELOPE IN CASE OF ANY MAIL PROBLEMS! b. When you place your order, make sure you order each of the five reports. You will need all five reports so that you can save them on your computer and resell them. c. Within a few days you will receive, via e-mail, each of the five reports. Save them on your computer so they will be accessible for you to send to the 1,000's of people who will order them from you. 2. IMPORTANT-- DO NOT alter the names of the people who are listed next to each report, or their sequence on the list, in any way other than is instructed below in steps "a" through "g" or you will lose out on the majority of your profits. Once you understand the way this works, you'll also see how it doesn't work if you change it. Remember, this method has been tested, and if you alter it, it will not work. a. Look below for the listing of available reports. b. After you've ordered the five reports, take this advertisement and REM0VE the name and address under REPORT #5. This person has made it through the cycle and is no doubt counting their $46,000! Also, change the name of the company, the address, and the REM0VE e-mail address on the top of this document to your own. c. Move the name and address under REPORT #4 down to REPORT #5. d. Move the name and address under REPORT #3 down to REPORT #4. e. Move the name and address under REPORT #2 down to REPORT #3. f. Move the name and address under REPORT #1 down to REPORT #2. g. Insert your name/address in the REPORT #1 position. Please make sure you copy every name and address ACCURATELY! 3. Take this entire letter, including the modified list of names, and save it to your computer. Make NO changes to the instruction portion of this letter. Your cost to participate in this is practically nothing (surely you can afford $25). You obviously already have an Internet connection and e-mail is FREE! To assist you with marketing your business on the internet, the 5 reports you purchase will provide you with invaluable marketing INF0RMATION which includes how to send bulk e-mails, where to find thousands of free classified ads and much, much more. There are two primary methods of building your downline: METHOD #1: SENDING BULK E-MAIL Let's say that you decide to start small, just to see how it goes, and we'll assume you and all those involved send out only 2,000 programs each. Let's also assume that the mailing receives a 0.3% response. Using a good list the response could be much better. Also, many people will send out hundreds of thousands of programs instead of 2,000. But continuing with this example, you send out only 2,000 programs. With a 0.3% response, that is only 6 orders for REPORT #1. Those 6 people respond by sending out 2,000 programs each for a total of 12,000. Out of those 0.3%, 36 people respond and order REPORT #2. Those 36 mail out 2,000 programs each for a total of 72,000. The 0.3% response to that is 216 orders for REPORT #3. Those 216 send out 2,000 programs each for a 432,000 total. The 0.3% response to that is 1,296 orders for REPORT #4. Those 1,296 send out 2,000 programs each for a 2,592,000 total. The 0.3% response to that is 7,776 orders for REPORT #5. That's 7,776 $5 bills for you, CASH!!! Your total income in this example is $30 + $180 + $1,080+ $6,480 + $38,880 for a total of $46,650!!! REMEMBER DEAR READER, THIS IS ASSUMING 1,994 OUT OF THE 2,000 PEOPLE YOU MAIL TO WILL DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AND TRASH THIS PROGRAM! DARE TO THINK FOR A MOMENT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF EVERYONE, OR HALF SENT OUT 100,000 PROGRAMS INSTEAD OF 2,000. Believe me, many people will do just that, and more! By the way, your cost to participate in this is practically nothing. You obviously already have an internet connection and e-mail is FREE!!! REPORT #2 and #5 will show you the best methods for bulk emailing, tell you where to obtain free bulk e-mail software and where to obtain e-mail lists and show you how to send out 1,000,000 e-mails for free. METHOD #2 - PLACING FREE ADS ON THE INTERNET 1. Advertising on the 'Net is very, very inexpensive, and there are HUNDREDS of FREE places to advertise. Let's say you decide to start small just to see how well it works. Assume your goal is to get ONLY 6 people to participate on your first level. (Placing a lot of FREE ads on the internet will EASILY get a larger response.) Also assume that everyone else in YOUR ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 6 downline members. Follow this example to achieve the STAGGERING results below. 1st level--your 6 members with $5 ($5 x 6)........................$30 2nd level--6 members from those 6 ($5 x 36)....................$180 3rd level--6 members from those 36 ($5 x 216)............ $1,080 4th level--6 members from those 216 ($5 x 1,296)....... $6,480 5th level-6 members from those 1,296 ($5 x 7,776)... $38,880 ..................................................$46,650 _________________________________________________________________________ Remember friends, this assumes that the people who participate only recruit 6 people each. Think for a moment what would happen if they got 20 people to participate! Many people will get 100's of participants! THINK ABOUT IT! For every $5.00 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them the report they ordered. THAT'S IT! ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS! This will guarantee that the e-mail THEY send out, with YOUR name and address on it, will be prompt because they can't advertise until they receive the report! _________________________________________________________________________ AVAILABLE REPORTS _________________________________________________________________________ *** Order Each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME *** Notes: ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH (U.S. CURRENCY) FOR EACH REPORT CHECKS NOT ACCEPTED ALWAYS SEND YOUR ORDER VIA FIRST CLASS MAIL Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least two sheets of paper. On one of those sheets of paper, include: (a) the number & name of the report you are ordering, (b) your e-mail address, and (c) your name & postal address. It's best to type this to avoid mistakes. PLACE YOUR ORDER FOR THESE REPORTS NOW: ______________________________________________________ REPORT #1 "The Insider's Guide to Advertising for Free on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #1 FROM: Stan LeFeber 1353 11th St. Slidell, LA 70458 ______________________________________________________ REPORT #2 "The Insider's Guide to Sending Bulk E-mail on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #2 FROM: Mrs. Paula Bowen 207 North Carolina Circle Mocksville, NC 27028 ______________________________________________________ REPORT #3 "The Secrets to Multilevel Marketing on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #3 FROM: Kimberly Fleming #936 c/o Landbase Australia Locked Bag 25 Gosford NSW 2250 Australia ______________________________________________________ REPORT #4 "How to become a Millionaire utilizing the Power of Multilevel Marketing and the Internet" ORDER REPORT #4 FROM: Destiny 2001 1105 Amble Lane Clearwater, FL 33755 ______________________________________________________ REPORT #5 "How to SEND 1,000,000 e-mails for FREE" ORDER REPORT #5 FROM: Kevin Zonner 166 Sherman Road Beaver Falls, PA 15010-9724 ______________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________ There currently more than 175,000,000 people online worldwide! ******* TIPS FOR SUCCESS ******* * TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS! Be prompt, professional, and follow the directions accurately. * Send for the five reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have them when the orders start coming in because: When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the requested product/report. * ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE. * Be patient and persistent with this program. If you follow the instructions exactly, your results WILL BE SUCCESSFUL! * ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL SUCCEED! ******* YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINES ******* Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success: If you don't receive 20 orders for REPORT #1 within two weeks, continue advertising or sending e-mails until you do. Then, a couple of weeks later you should receive at least 100 orders for REPORT#2. If you don't, continue advertising or sending e-mails until you do. Once you have received 100 or more orders for REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX, because the system is already working for you, and the cash will continue to roll in! THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER: Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed in front of a DIFFERENT report. You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching which report people are ordering from you. If you want to generate more income, send another batch of e-mails or continue placing ads and start the whole process again! There is no limit to the income you will generate from this business! Before you make your decision as to whether or not you participate in this program. Please answer one question. DO YOU WANT TO CHANGE YOUR LIFE? If the answer is yes, please look at the following facts about this program: 1. YOU ARE SELLING A PRODUCT WHICH DOES NOT COST ANYTHING TO PRODUCE! 2. YOU ARE SELLING A PRODUCT WHICH DOES NOT COST ANYTHING TO SHIP! 3. YOU ARE SELLING A PRODUCT WHICH DOES NOT COST YOU ANYTHING TO ADVERTISE! 4. YOU ARE UTILIZING THE POWER OF THE INTERNET AND THE POWER OF MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING TO DISTRIBUTE YOUR PRODUCT ALL OVER THE WORLD! 5. YOUR ONLY EXPENSES OTHER THAN YOUR INITIAL $25 INVESTMENT IS YOUR TIME! 6. VIRTUALLY ALL OF THE INCOME YOU GENERATE FROM THIS PROGRAM IS PURE PROFIT! ********************************************* ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO FINANCIAL FREEDOM! NOW IS THE TIME FOR YOUR TURN. DECISIVE ACTION YIELDS POWERFUL RESULTS. _________________________________________________________________________ PLEASE NOTE: If you need help with starting a business, registering a business name, learning how income tax is handled, etc., contact your local office of the Small Business Administration (a Federal agency) 1(800) 827-5722 for free help and answers to questions. Also, the Internal Revenue Service offers free help via telephone and free seminars about business tax requirements. Your earnings and results are highly dependant on your activities and advertising. This letter constitutes no guarantees stated nor implied. In the event that it is determined that this letter constitutes a guarantee of any kind, that guarantee is now void. Any testimonials or amounts of earnings listed in this letter may be factual or non-verifiable. If you have any question of the legality of this letter contact the Office of Associate Director for Marketing Practices Federal Trade Commission Bureau of Consumer Protection in Washington DC. _________________________________________________________________________ From amaha at vsnl.net Sat Jul 7 11:49:36 2001 From: amaha at vsnl.net (Fountain Of Inspiration) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 13:49:36 -0500 Subject: Thought-A-Day Message-ID: <200107071849.f67InZx11147@ak47.algebra.com> PROGRESS Little & often make much. Keep moving.Slower or faster does not matter as long as you do not stop. --Confucius ====================================================================== Your name has been recommended to receive thoughts of wisdom from Fountain of Joy. These thoughts will be delivered, free of cost, to your desktop,everyday, for an initial evaluation period. We believe that the meaningful insights of these carefully selected thoughts will make your life peaceful,successful & happy in a way you had never imagined before. However, if you desire to unsubscribe, reply to this email with 'remove' in the subject line. Director, Fountain of Inspiration (A Non-religious Organisation) From High_Profits at hotmail.com Sat Jul 7 12:15:35 2001 From: High_Profits at hotmail.com (High_Profits at hotmail.com) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 14:15:35 -0500 Subject: Message-ID: <200107071905.f67J5nJ27100@spf6.us4.outblaze.com> This will only take a few minutes of your time to read. If you read it and think it is a scam then delete this email and thank you for your time. I, however, don't believe you will delete it once you read everything it has to say. _________________________________________________________________________ Here is the information you requested. This is not spam. You are receiving this e-mail because you or someone else requested this information. IF YOU FEEL YOU HAVE RECIEVED THIS EMAIL IN ERROR, OR HAVE NOT SIGNED UP TO RECIEVE OPT-IN EMAIL, PLEASE REPLY TO THIS EMAIL WITH 'REMOVE' IN THE SUBJECT LINE. WE DO NOT SUPPORT THE SENDING OF UNSOLICITED E-MAILS. _________________________________________________________________________ WORK AT HOME USING YOUR COMPUTER!!! _________________________________________________________________________ Dear Friend, You can earn $46,000 or more in next the 6 months sending e-mail. Seem impossible? Read on for details (no, there is no "catch")... _________________________________________________________________________ "AS SEEN ON NATIONAL T.V." Thank you for your time and Interest. This is the letter you've been reading about in the news lately. Due to the popularity of this letter on the internet, a major nightly news program recently devoted an entire show to the investigation of the program described below, to see if it really can make people money. The show also investigated whether or not the program was legal. Their findings proved once and for all that there are, absolutely no laws prohibiting the participation in the program. This has helped to show people that this is a simple, harmless and fun way to make some extra money at home. The results of this show has been truly remarkable. So many people are participating that those involved are doing, much better than ever before. Since everyone makes more as more people try it out, its been very exciting to be a part of this lately. You will understand once you experience it. "HERE IT IS BELOW" _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ *** Print This Now For Future Reference *** The following income opportunity is one you may be interested in taking a look at. It can be started with VERY LITTLE investment and the income return is TREMENDOUS!!! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ If you would like to make at least $46,000 in less than 6 months! Please read the enclosed program...THEN READ IT AGAIN!!! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ THIS IS A LEGITIMATE, LEGAL, MONEY MAKING OPPORTUNITY. It does not require you to come into contact with people, do any hard work, and best of all, you never have to leave the house except to get the mail. If you believe that someday you'll get that big break that you've been waiting for, THIS IS IT! Simply follow the instructions, and your dreams will come true. This multi-level e-mail order marketing program works perfectly...100% EVERY TIME. E-mail is the sales tool of the future. Take advantage of this non-commercialized method of advertising NOW!!! The longer you wait, the more people will be doing business using e-mail. Get your piece of this action!!! MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING (MLM) has finally gained respectability. It is being taught in the Harvard Business School, and both Stanford Research and the Wall Street Journal have stated that between 50% and 65% of all goods and services will be sold through multi-level methods by the mid to late 1990's. This is a Multi-Billion Dollar industry and of the 3,500,000 millionaires in the WORLD, 20% ( 700,000) made their fortune in the last several years in MLM. Moreover, statistics show that over 100 people become millionaires everyday through Multi-Level Marketing. You may have heard this story before, but over the summer Donald Trump (A MULTI-BILLIONAIRE, ONE OF THE WEALTHIEST MEN IN THE WORLD) made an appearance on the David Letterman show. Dave asked him what he would do if he lost everything and had to start over from scratch. Without hesitating, Trump said he would find a good network marketing company and get to work. The audience started to hoot and boo him. He looked out at the audience and dead-panned his response "That's why I'm sitting up here and you are all sitting out there!" With network marketing you have two sources of income. Direct commissions from sales you make yourself and commissions from sales made by people you introduce to the business. Residual income is the secret of the wealthy. It means investing time or money once and getting paid again and again and again. In network marketing, it also means getting paid for the work of others. This program is currently being utilized in more than 50 different countries across the world. The middle class was vanishing. Those who knew what they were doing invested wisely and moved up. Those who did not, including those who never had anything to save or invest, were moving down into the ranks of the poor. As the saying goes, "THE RICH GET RICHER AND THE POOR GET POORER." The traditional methods of making money will never allow you to "move up" or "get rich", inflation will see to that. You have just received INF0RMATION that can give you financial freedom for the rest of your life, with "NO RISK" and "JUST A LITTLE BIT OF EFFORT." You can make more money in the next few months than you have ever imagined. Follow the program EXACTLY AS INSTRUCTED. Do not change it in any way. It works exceedingly well as it is now. Remember to e-mail a copy of this exciting report to everyone you can think of. One of the people you send this to may send out 100,000 or more...and your name will be on everyone of them! Remember though, the more you send out the more potential customers you will reach. So my friend, I have given you the ideas, INF0RMATION, materials and opportunity to become financially independent, IT IS UP TO YOU NOW! "THINK ABOUT IT" Before you delete this program from your mailbox, as I almost did, take a little time to read it and REALLY THINK ABOUT IT. Get a pencil and figure out what could happen when YOU participate. Figure out the worst possible response and no matter how you calculate it, you will still make a lot of money! You will definitely get back what you invested. Any doubts you have will vanish when your first orders come in. IT WORKS! HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PROGRAM WILL MAKE YOU THOUSANDS OF DOLLAR$ INSTRUCTIONS: This method of raising capital REALLY WORKS 100% EVERY TIME. I am sure that you could use up to $46,000 or more in the next 6 months. Before you say "BULL... ", please read this program carefully. This is not a chain letter, but a perfectly legal money making opportunity. Basically, this is what you do: As with all multi-level businesses, we build our business by recruiting new partners and selling our products. Because of the global nature of the internet, you will be able to recruit new multi-level business partners from all over the world, and we offer a product for EVERY dollar sent. YOUR ORDERS COME BY MAIL AND ARE FILLED BY E-MAIL, so you are not involved in personal selling. You do it privately in your own home, store or office. This is the GREATEST Multi-Level Mail Order Marketing anywhere. This is what you MUST do: 1. Order all 5 reports shown on the list below (you can't sell them if you don't order them). a. For each report, send $5.00 CASH, the NAME & NUMBER OF THE REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS, and YOUR NAME & RETURN ADDRESS (in case of a problem) to the person whose name appears on the list next to the report. MAKE SURE YOUR RETURN ADDRESS IS ON YOUR ENVELOPE IN CASE OF ANY MAIL PROBLEMS! b. When you place your order, make sure you order each of the five reports. You will need all five reports so that you can save them on your computer and resell them. c. Within a few days you will receive, via e-mail, each of the five reports. Save them on your computer so they will be accessible for you to send to the 1,000's of people who will order them from you. 2. IMPORTANT-- DO NOT alter the names of the people who are listed next to each report, or their sequence on the list, in any way other than is instructed below in steps "a" through "g" or you will lose out on the majority of your profits. Once you understand the way this works, you'll also see how it doesn't work if you change it. Remember, this method has been tested, and if you alter it, it will not work. a. Look below for the listing of available reports. b. After you've ordered the five reports, take this advertisement and REM0VE the name and address under REPORT #5. This person has made it through the cycle and is no doubt counting their $46,000! Also, change the name of the company, the address, and the REM0VE e-mail address on the top of this document to your own. c. Move the name and address under REPORT #4 down to REPORT #5. d. Move the name and address under REPORT #3 down to REPORT #4. e. Move the name and address under REPORT #2 down to REPORT #3. f. Move the name and address under REPORT #1 down to REPORT #2. g. Insert your name/address in the REPORT #1 position. Please make sure you copy every name and address ACCURATELY! 3. Take this entire letter, including the modified list of names, and save it to your computer. Make NO changes to the instruction portion of this letter. Your cost to participate in this is practically nothing (surely you can afford $25). You obviously already have an Internet connection and e-mail is FREE! To assist you with marketing your business on the internet, the 5 reports you purchase will provide you with invaluable marketing INF0RMATION which includes how to send bulk e-mails, where to find thousands of free classified ads and much, much more. There are two primary methods of building your downline: METHOD #1: SENDING BULK E-MAIL Let's say that you decide to start small, just to see how it goes, and we'll assume you and all those involved send out only 2,000 programs each. Let's also assume that the mailing receives a 0.3% response. Using a good list the response could be much better. Also, many people will send out hundreds of thousands of programs instead of 2,000. But continuing with this example, you send out only 2,000 programs. With a 0.3% response, that is only 6 orders for REPORT #1. Those 6 people respond by sending out 2,000 programs each for a total of 12,000. Out of those 0.3%, 36 people respond and order REPORT #2. Those 36 mail out 2,000 programs each for a total of 72,000. The 0.3% response to that is 216 orders for REPORT #3. Those 216 send out 2,000 programs each for a 432,000 total. The 0.3% response to that is 1,296 orders for REPORT #4. Those 1,296 send out 2,000 programs each for a 2,592,000 total. The 0.3% response to that is 7,776 orders for REPORT #5. That's 7,776 $5 bills for you, CASH!!! Your total income in this example is $30 + $180 + $1,080+ $6,480 + $38,880 for a total of $46,650!!! REMEMBER DEAR READER, THIS IS ASSUMING 1,994 OUT OF THE 2,000 PEOPLE YOU MAIL TO WILL DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AND TRASH THIS PROGRAM! DARE TO THINK FOR A MOMENT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF EVERYONE, OR HALF SENT OUT 100,000 PROGRAMS INSTEAD OF 2,000. Believe me, many people will do just that, and more! By the way, your cost to participate in this is practically nothing. You obviously already have an internet connection and e-mail is FREE!!! REPORT #2 and #5 will show you the best methods for bulk emailing, tell you where to obtain free bulk e-mail software and where to obtain e-mail lists and show you how to send out 1,000,000 e-mails for free. METHOD #2 - PLACING FREE ADS ON THE INTERNET 1. Advertising on the 'Net is very, very inexpensive, and there are HUNDREDS of FREE places to advertise. Let's say you decide to start small just to see how well it works. Assume your goal is to get ONLY 6 people to participate on your first level. (Placing a lot of FREE ads on the internet will EASILY get a larger response.) Also assume that everyone else in YOUR ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 6 downline members. Follow this example to achieve the STAGGERING results below. 1st level--your 6 members with $5 ($5 x 6)........................$30 2nd level--6 members from those 6 ($5 x 36)....................$180 3rd level--6 members from those 36 ($5 x 216)............ $1,080 4th level--6 members from those 216 ($5 x 1,296)....... $6,480 5th level-6 members from those 1,296 ($5 x 7,776)... $38,880 ..................................................$46,650 _________________________________________________________________________ Remember friends, this assumes that the people who participate only recruit 6 people each. Think for a moment what would happen if they got 20 people to participate! Many people will get 100's of participants! THINK ABOUT IT! For every $5.00 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them the report they ordered. THAT'S IT! ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS! This will guarantee that the e-mail THEY send out, with YOUR name and address on it, will be prompt because they can't advertise until they receive the report! _________________________________________________________________________ AVAILABLE REPORTS _________________________________________________________________________ *** Order Each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME *** Notes: ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH (U.S. CURRENCY) FOR EACH REPORT CHECKS NOT ACCEPTED ALWAYS SEND YOUR ORDER VIA FIRST CLASS MAIL Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least two sheets of paper. On one of those sheets of paper, include: (a) the number & name of the report you are ordering, (b) your e-mail address, and (c) your name & postal address. It's best to type this to avoid mistakes. PLACE YOUR ORDER FOR THESE REPORTS NOW: ______________________________________________________ REPORT #1 "The Insider's Guide to Advertising for Free on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #1 FROM: Stan LeFeber 1353 11th St. Slidell, LA 70458 ______________________________________________________ REPORT #2 "The Insider's Guide to Sending Bulk E-mail on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #2 FROM: Mrs. Paula Bowen 207 North Carolina Circle Mocksville, NC 27028 ______________________________________________________ REPORT #3 "The Secrets to Multilevel Marketing on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #3 FROM: Kimberly Fleming #936 c/o Landbase Australia Locked Bag 25 Gosford NSW 2250 Australia ______________________________________________________ REPORT #4 "How to become a Millionaire utilizing the Power of Multilevel Marketing and the Internet" ORDER REPORT #4 FROM: Destiny 2001 1105 Amble Lane Clearwater, FL 33755 ______________________________________________________ REPORT #5 "How to SEND 1,000,000 e-mails for FREE" ORDER REPORT #5 FROM: Kevin Zonner 166 Sherman Road Beaver Falls, PA 15010-9724 ______________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________ There currently more than 175,000,000 people online worldwide! ******* TIPS FOR SUCCESS ******* * TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS! Be prompt, professional, and follow the directions accurately. * Send for the five reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have them when the orders start coming in because: When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the requested product/report. * ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE. * Be patient and persistent with this program. If you follow the instructions exactly, your results WILL BE SUCCESSFUL! * ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL SUCCEED! ******* YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINES ******* Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success: If you don't receive 20 orders for REPORT #1 within two weeks, continue advertising or sending e-mails until you do. Then, a couple of weeks later you should receive at least 100 orders for REPORT#2. If you don't, continue advertising or sending e-mails until you do. Once you have received 100 or more orders for REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX, because the system is already working for you, and the cash will continue to roll in! THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER: Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed in front of a DIFFERENT report. You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching which report people are ordering from you. If you want to generate more income, send another batch of e-mails or continue placing ads and start the whole process again! There is no limit to the income you will generate from this business! Before you make your decision as to whether or not you participate in this program. Please answer one question. DO YOU WANT TO CHANGE YOUR LIFE? If the answer is yes, please look at the following facts about this program: 1. YOU ARE SELLING A PRODUCT WHICH DOES NOT COST ANYTHING TO PRODUCE! 2. YOU ARE SELLING A PRODUCT WHICH DOES NOT COST ANYTHING TO SHIP! 3. YOU ARE SELLING A PRODUCT WHICH DOES NOT COST YOU ANYTHING TO ADVERTISE! 4. YOU ARE UTILIZING THE POWER OF THE INTERNET AND THE POWER OF MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING TO DISTRIBUTE YOUR PRODUCT ALL OVER THE WORLD! 5. YOUR ONLY EXPENSES OTHER THAN YOUR INITIAL $25 INVESTMENT IS YOUR TIME! 6. VIRTUALLY ALL OF THE INCOME YOU GENERATE FROM THIS PROGRAM IS PURE PROFIT! ********************************************* ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO FINANCIAL FREEDOM! NOW IS THE TIME FOR YOUR TURN. DECISIVE ACTION YIELDS POWERFUL RESULTS. _________________________________________________________________________ PLEASE NOTE: If you need help with starting a business, registering a business name, learning how income tax is handled, etc., contact your local office of the Small Business Administration (a Federal agency) 1(800) 827-5722 for free help and answers to questions. Also, the Internal Revenue Service offers free help via telephone and free seminars about business tax requirements. Your earnings and results are highly dependant on your activities and advertising. This letter constitutes no guarantees stated nor implied. In the event that it is determined that this letter constitutes a guarantee of any kind, that guarantee is now void. Any testimonials or amounts of earnings listed in this letter may be factual or non-verifiable. If you have any question of the legality of this letter contact the Office of Associate Director for Marketing Practices Federal Trade Commission Bureau of Consumer Protection in Washington DC. _________________________________________________________________________ From lyris at listserv.winamp.com Sat Jul 7 11:20:28 2001 From: lyris at listserv.winamp.com (Lyris ListManager) Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 14:20:28 -0400 Subject: Your membership on announce has been put on hold Message-ID: This email message is to notify you that your membership to announce has been put on "hold". This means that you will not receive mail from 'announce'. Your subscription has been held because at least 1 recent messages have been either bounced by your email system, or could not be delivered at all. Your membership can be restored to "normal", by sending the command "unhold" to lyris at listserv.winamp.com Note that if your email address continues to reject mail your subscription will once again be "held". You may want to contact the people responsible for your electronic mail to determine why your email address has been having trouble. ---For your information, a non-delivery report is included below: From High_Profits at hotmail.com Sat Jul 7 12:37:08 2001 From: High_Profits at hotmail.com (High_Profits at hotmail.com) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 14:37:08 -0500 Subject: Message-ID: <200107071927.MAA08945@sirius.infonex.com> This will only take a few minutes of your time to read. If you read it and think it is a scam then delete this email and thank you for your time. I, however, don't believe you will delete it once you read everything it has to say. _________________________________________________________________________ Here is the information you requested. This is not spam. You are receiving this e-mail because you or someone else requested this information. IF YOU FEEL YOU HAVE RECIEVED THIS EMAIL IN ERROR, OR HAVE NOT SIGNED UP TO RECIEVE OPT-IN EMAIL, PLEASE REPLY TO THIS EMAIL WITH 'REMOVE' IN THE SUBJECT LINE. WE DO NOT SUPPORT THE SENDING OF UNSOLICITED E-MAILS. _________________________________________________________________________ WORK AT HOME USING YOUR COMPUTER!!! _________________________________________________________________________ Dear Friend, You can earn $46,000 or more in next the 6 months sending e-mail. Seem impossible? Read on for details (no, there is no "catch")... _________________________________________________________________________ "AS SEEN ON NATIONAL T.V." Thank you for your time and Interest. This is the letter you've been reading about in the news lately. Due to the popularity of this letter on the internet, a major nightly news program recently devoted an entire show to the investigation of the program described below, to see if it really can make people money. The show also investigated whether or not the program was legal. Their findings proved once and for all that there are, absolutely no laws prohibiting the participation in the program. This has helped to show people that this is a simple, harmless and fun way to make some extra money at home. The results of this show has been truly remarkable. So many people are participating that those involved are doing, much better than ever before. Since everyone makes more as more people try it out, its been very exciting to be a part of this lately. You will understand once you experience it. "HERE IT IS BELOW" _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ *** Print This Now For Future Reference *** The following income opportunity is one you may be interested in taking a look at. It can be started with VERY LITTLE investment and the income return is TREMENDOUS!!! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ If you would like to make at least $46,000 in less than 6 months! Please read the enclosed program...THEN READ IT AGAIN!!! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ THIS IS A LEGITIMATE, LEGAL, MONEY MAKING OPPORTUNITY. It does not require you to come into contact with people, do any hard work, and best of all, you never have to leave the house except to get the mail. If you believe that someday you'll get that big break that you've been waiting for, THIS IS IT! Simply follow the instructions, and your dreams will come true. This multi-level e-mail order marketing program works perfectly...100% EVERY TIME. E-mail is the sales tool of the future. Take advantage of this non-commercialized method of advertising NOW!!! The longer you wait, the more people will be doing business using e-mail. Get your piece of this action!!! MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING (MLM) has finally gained respectability. It is being taught in the Harvard Business School, and both Stanford Research and the Wall Street Journal have stated that between 50% and 65% of all goods and services will be sold through multi-level methods by the mid to late 1990's. This is a Multi-Billion Dollar industry and of the 3,500,000 millionaires in the WORLD, 20% ( 700,000) made their fortune in the last several years in MLM. Moreover, statistics show that over 100 people become millionaires everyday through Multi-Level Marketing. You may have heard this story before, but over the summer Donald Trump (A MULTI-BILLIONAIRE, ONE OF THE WEALTHIEST MEN IN THE WORLD) made an appearance on the David Letterman show. Dave asked him what he would do if he lost everything and had to start over from scratch. Without hesitating, Trump said he would find a good network marketing company and get to work. The audience started to hoot and boo him. He looked out at the audience and dead-panned his response "That's why I'm sitting up here and you are all sitting out there!" With network marketing you have two sources of income. Direct commissions from sales you make yourself and commissions from sales made by people you introduce to the business. Residual income is the secret of the wealthy. It means investing time or money once and getting paid again and again and again. In network marketing, it also means getting paid for the work of others. This program is currently being utilized in more than 50 different countries across the world. The middle class was vanishing. Those who knew what they were doing invested wisely and moved up. Those who did not, including those who never had anything to save or invest, were moving down into the ranks of the poor. As the saying goes, "THE RICH GET RICHER AND THE POOR GET POORER." The traditional methods of making money will never allow you to "move up" or "get rich", inflation will see to that. You have just received INF0RMATION that can give you financial freedom for the rest of your life, with "NO RISK" and "JUST A LITTLE BIT OF EFFORT." You can make more money in the next few months than you have ever imagined. Follow the program EXACTLY AS INSTRUCTED. Do not change it in any way. It works exceedingly well as it is now. Remember to e-mail a copy of this exciting report to everyone you can think of. One of the people you send this to may send out 100,000 or more...and your name will be on everyone of them! Remember though, the more you send out the more potential customers you will reach. So my friend, I have given you the ideas, INF0RMATION, materials and opportunity to become financially independent, IT IS UP TO YOU NOW! "THINK ABOUT IT" Before you delete this program from your mailbox, as I almost did, take a little time to read it and REALLY THINK ABOUT IT. Get a pencil and figure out what could happen when YOU participate. Figure out the worst possible response and no matter how you calculate it, you will still make a lot of money! You will definitely get back what you invested. Any doubts you have will vanish when your first orders come in. IT WORKS! HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PROGRAM WILL MAKE YOU THOUSANDS OF DOLLAR$ INSTRUCTIONS: This method of raising capital REALLY WORKS 100% EVERY TIME. I am sure that you could use up to $46,000 or more in the next 6 months. Before you say "BULL... ", please read this program carefully. This is not a chain letter, but a perfectly legal money making opportunity. Basically, this is what you do: As with all multi-level businesses, we build our business by recruiting new partners and selling our products. Because of the global nature of the internet, you will be able to recruit new multi-level business partners from all over the world, and we offer a product for EVERY dollar sent. YOUR ORDERS COME BY MAIL AND ARE FILLED BY E-MAIL, so you are not involved in personal selling. You do it privately in your own home, store or office. This is the GREATEST Multi-Level Mail Order Marketing anywhere. This is what you MUST do: 1. Order all 5 reports shown on the list below (you can't sell them if you don't order them). a. For each report, send $5.00 CASH, the NAME & NUMBER OF THE REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS, and YOUR NAME & RETURN ADDRESS (in case of a problem) to the person whose name appears on the list next to the report. MAKE SURE YOUR RETURN ADDRESS IS ON YOUR ENVELOPE IN CASE OF ANY MAIL PROBLEMS! b. When you place your order, make sure you order each of the five reports. You will need all five reports so that you can save them on your computer and resell them. c. Within a few days you will receive, via e-mail, each of the five reports. Save them on your computer so they will be accessible for you to send to the 1,000's of people who will order them from you. 2. IMPORTANT-- DO NOT alter the names of the people who are listed next to each report, or their sequence on the list, in any way other than is instructed below in steps "a" through "g" or you will lose out on the majority of your profits. Once you understand the way this works, you'll also see how it doesn't work if you change it. Remember, this method has been tested, and if you alter it, it will not work. a. Look below for the listing of available reports. b. After you've ordered the five reports, take this advertisement and REM0VE the name and address under REPORT #5. This person has made it through the cycle and is no doubt counting their $46,000! Also, change the name of the company, the address, and the REM0VE e-mail address on the top of this document to your own. c. Move the name and address under REPORT #4 down to REPORT #5. d. Move the name and address under REPORT #3 down to REPORT #4. e. Move the name and address under REPORT #2 down to REPORT #3. f. Move the name and address under REPORT #1 down to REPORT #2. g. Insert your name/address in the REPORT #1 position. Please make sure you copy every name and address ACCURATELY! 3. Take this entire letter, including the modified list of names, and save it to your computer. Make NO changes to the instruction portion of this letter. Your cost to participate in this is practically nothing (surely you can afford $25). You obviously already have an Internet connection and e-mail is FREE! To assist you with marketing your business on the internet, the 5 reports you purchase will provide you with invaluable marketing INF0RMATION which includes how to send bulk e-mails, where to find thousands of free classified ads and much, much more. There are two primary methods of building your downline: METHOD #1: SENDING BULK E-MAIL Let's say that you decide to start small, just to see how it goes, and we'll assume you and all those involved send out only 2,000 programs each. Let's also assume that the mailing receives a 0.3% response. Using a good list the response could be much better. Also, many people will send out hundreds of thousands of programs instead of 2,000. But continuing with this example, you send out only 2,000 programs. With a 0.3% response, that is only 6 orders for REPORT #1. Those 6 people respond by sending out 2,000 programs each for a total of 12,000. Out of those 0.3%, 36 people respond and order REPORT #2. Those 36 mail out 2,000 programs each for a total of 72,000. The 0.3% response to that is 216 orders for REPORT #3. Those 216 send out 2,000 programs each for a 432,000 total. The 0.3% response to that is 1,296 orders for REPORT #4. Those 1,296 send out 2,000 programs each for a 2,592,000 total. The 0.3% response to that is 7,776 orders for REPORT #5. That's 7,776 $5 bills for you, CASH!!! Your total income in this example is $30 + $180 + $1,080+ $6,480 + $38,880 for a total of $46,650!!! REMEMBER DEAR READER, THIS IS ASSUMING 1,994 OUT OF THE 2,000 PEOPLE YOU MAIL TO WILL DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AND TRASH THIS PROGRAM! DARE TO THINK FOR A MOMENT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF EVERYONE, OR HALF SENT OUT 100,000 PROGRAMS INSTEAD OF 2,000. Believe me, many people will do just that, and more! By the way, your cost to participate in this is practically nothing. You obviously already have an internet connection and e-mail is FREE!!! REPORT #2 and #5 will show you the best methods for bulk emailing, tell you where to obtain free bulk e-mail software and where to obtain e-mail lists and show you how to send out 1,000,000 e-mails for free. METHOD #2 - PLACING FREE ADS ON THE INTERNET 1. Advertising on the 'Net is very, very inexpensive, and there are HUNDREDS of FREE places to advertise. Let's say you decide to start small just to see how well it works. Assume your goal is to get ONLY 6 people to participate on your first level. (Placing a lot of FREE ads on the internet will EASILY get a larger response.) Also assume that everyone else in YOUR ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 6 downline members. Follow this example to achieve the STAGGERING results below. 1st level--your 6 members with $5 ($5 x 6)........................$30 2nd level--6 members from those 6 ($5 x 36)....................$180 3rd level--6 members from those 36 ($5 x 216)............ $1,080 4th level--6 members from those 216 ($5 x 1,296)....... $6,480 5th level-6 members from those 1,296 ($5 x 7,776)... $38,880 ..................................................$46,650 _________________________________________________________________________ Remember friends, this assumes that the people who participate only recruit 6 people each. Think for a moment what would happen if they got 20 people to participate! Many people will get 100's of participants! THINK ABOUT IT! For every $5.00 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them the report they ordered. THAT'S IT! ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS! This will guarantee that the e-mail THEY send out, with YOUR name and address on it, will be prompt because they can't advertise until they receive the report! _________________________________________________________________________ AVAILABLE REPORTS _________________________________________________________________________ *** Order Each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME *** Notes: ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH (U.S. CURRENCY) FOR EACH REPORT CHECKS NOT ACCEPTED ALWAYS SEND YOUR ORDER VIA FIRST CLASS MAIL Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least two sheets of paper. On one of those sheets of paper, include: (a) the number & name of the report you are ordering, (b) your e-mail address, and (c) your name & postal address. It's best to type this to avoid mistakes. PLACE YOUR ORDER FOR THESE REPORTS NOW: ______________________________________________________ REPORT #1 "The Insider's Guide to Advertising for Free on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #1 FROM: Stan LeFeber 1353 11th St. Slidell, LA 70458 ______________________________________________________ REPORT #2 "The Insider's Guide to Sending Bulk E-mail on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #2 FROM: Mrs. Paula Bowen 207 North Carolina Circle Mocksville, NC 27028 ______________________________________________________ REPORT #3 "The Secrets to Multilevel Marketing on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #3 FROM: Kimberly Fleming #936 c/o Landbase Australia Locked Bag 25 Gosford NSW 2250 Australia ______________________________________________________ REPORT #4 "How to become a Millionaire utilizing the Power of Multilevel Marketing and the Internet" ORDER REPORT #4 FROM: Destiny 2001 1105 Amble Lane Clearwater, FL 33755 ______________________________________________________ REPORT #5 "How to SEND 1,000,000 e-mails for FREE" ORDER REPORT #5 FROM: Kevin Zonner 166 Sherman Road Beaver Falls, PA 15010-9724 ______________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________ There currently more than 175,000,000 people online worldwide! ******* TIPS FOR SUCCESS ******* * TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS! Be prompt, professional, and follow the directions accurately. * Send for the five reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have them when the orders start coming in because: When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the requested product/report. * ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE. * Be patient and persistent with this program. If you follow the instructions exactly, your results WILL BE SUCCESSFUL! * ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL SUCCEED! ******* YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINES ******* Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success: If you don't receive 20 orders for REPORT #1 within two weeks, continue advertising or sending e-mails until you do. Then, a couple of weeks later you should receive at least 100 orders for REPORT#2. If you don't, continue advertising or sending e-mails until you do. Once you have received 100 or more orders for REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX, because the system is already working for you, and the cash will continue to roll in! THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER: Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed in front of a DIFFERENT report. You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching which report people are ordering from you. If you want to generate more income, send another batch of e-mails or continue placing ads and start the whole process again! There is no limit to the income you will generate from this business! Before you make your decision as to whether or not you participate in this program. Please answer one question. DO YOU WANT TO CHANGE YOUR LIFE? If the answer is yes, please look at the following facts about this program: 1. YOU ARE SELLING A PRODUCT WHICH DOES NOT COST ANYTHING TO PRODUCE! 2. YOU ARE SELLING A PRODUCT WHICH DOES NOT COST ANYTHING TO SHIP! 3. YOU ARE SELLING A PRODUCT WHICH DOES NOT COST YOU ANYTHING TO ADVERTISE! 4. YOU ARE UTILIZING THE POWER OF THE INTERNET AND THE POWER OF MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING TO DISTRIBUTE YOUR PRODUCT ALL OVER THE WORLD! 5. YOUR ONLY EXPENSES OTHER THAN YOUR INITIAL $25 INVESTMENT IS YOUR TIME! 6. VIRTUALLY ALL OF THE INCOME YOU GENERATE FROM THIS PROGRAM IS PURE PROFIT! ********************************************* ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO FINANCIAL FREEDOM! NOW IS THE TIME FOR YOUR TURN. DECISIVE ACTION YIELDS POWERFUL RESULTS. _________________________________________________________________________ PLEASE NOTE: If you need help with starting a business, registering a business name, learning how income tax is handled, etc., contact your local office of the Small Business Administration (a Federal agency) 1(800) 827-5722 for free help and answers to questions. Also, the Internal Revenue Service offers free help via telephone and free seminars about business tax requirements. Your earnings and results are highly dependant on your activities and advertising. This letter constitutes no guarantees stated nor implied. In the event that it is determined that this letter constitutes a guarantee of any kind, that guarantee is now void. Any testimonials or amounts of earnings listed in this letter may be factual or non-verifiable. If you have any question of the legality of this letter contact the Office of Associate Director for Marketing Practices Federal Trade Commission Bureau of Consumer Protection in Washington DC. _________________________________________________________________________ From High_Profits at hotmail.com Sat Jul 7 12:40:15 2001 From: High_Profits at hotmail.com (High_Profits at hotmail.com) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 14:40:15 -0500 Subject: Message-ID: <200107071930.MAA09044@sirius.infonex.com> This will only take a few minutes of your time to read. If you read it and think it is a scam then delete this email and thank you for your time. I, however, don't believe you will delete it once you read everything it has to say. _________________________________________________________________________ Here is the information you requested. This is not spam. You are receiving this e-mail because you or someone else requested this information. IF YOU FEEL YOU HAVE RECIEVED THIS EMAIL IN ERROR, OR HAVE NOT SIGNED UP TO RECIEVE OPT-IN EMAIL, PLEASE REPLY TO THIS EMAIL WITH 'REMOVE' IN THE SUBJECT LINE. WE DO NOT SUPPORT THE SENDING OF UNSOLICITED E-MAILS. _________________________________________________________________________ WORK AT HOME USING YOUR COMPUTER!!! _________________________________________________________________________ Dear Friend, You can earn $46,000 or more in next the 6 months sending e-mail. Seem impossible? Read on for details (no, there is no "catch")... _________________________________________________________________________ "AS SEEN ON NATIONAL T.V." Thank you for your time and Interest. This is the letter you've been reading about in the news lately. Due to the popularity of this letter on the internet, a major nightly news program recently devoted an entire show to the investigation of the program described below, to see if it really can make people money. The show also investigated whether or not the program was legal. Their findings proved once and for all that there are, absolutely no laws prohibiting the participation in the program. This has helped to show people that this is a simple, harmless and fun way to make some extra money at home. The results of this show has been truly remarkable. So many people are participating that those involved are doing, much better than ever before. Since everyone makes more as more people try it out, its been very exciting to be a part of this lately. You will understand once you experience it. "HERE IT IS BELOW" _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ *** Print This Now For Future Reference *** The following income opportunity is one you may be interested in taking a look at. It can be started with VERY LITTLE investment and the income return is TREMENDOUS!!! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ If you would like to make at least $46,000 in less than 6 months! Please read the enclosed program...THEN READ IT AGAIN!!! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ THIS IS A LEGITIMATE, LEGAL, MONEY MAKING OPPORTUNITY. It does not require you to come into contact with people, do any hard work, and best of all, you never have to leave the house except to get the mail. If you believe that someday you'll get that big break that you've been waiting for, THIS IS IT! Simply follow the instructions, and your dreams will come true. This multi-level e-mail order marketing program works perfectly...100% EVERY TIME. E-mail is the sales tool of the future. Take advantage of this non-commercialized method of advertising NOW!!! The longer you wait, the more people will be doing business using e-mail. Get your piece of this action!!! MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING (MLM) has finally gained respectability. It is being taught in the Harvard Business School, and both Stanford Research and the Wall Street Journal have stated that between 50% and 65% of all goods and services will be sold through multi-level methods by the mid to late 1990's. This is a Multi-Billion Dollar industry and of the 3,500,000 millionaires in the WORLD, 20% ( 700,000) made their fortune in the last several years in MLM. Moreover, statistics show that over 100 people become millionaires everyday through Multi-Level Marketing. You may have heard this story before, but over the summer Donald Trump (A MULTI-BILLIONAIRE, ONE OF THE WEALTHIEST MEN IN THE WORLD) made an appearance on the David Letterman show. Dave asked him what he would do if he lost everything and had to start over from scratch. Without hesitating, Trump said he would find a good network marketing company and get to work. The audience started to hoot and boo him. He looked out at the audience and dead-panned his response "That's why I'm sitting up here and you are all sitting out there!" With network marketing you have two sources of income. Direct commissions from sales you make yourself and commissions from sales made by people you introduce to the business. Residual income is the secret of the wealthy. It means investing time or money once and getting paid again and again and again. In network marketing, it also means getting paid for the work of others. This program is currently being utilized in more than 50 different countries across the world. The middle class was vanishing. Those who knew what they were doing invested wisely and moved up. Those who did not, including those who never had anything to save or invest, were moving down into the ranks of the poor. As the saying goes, "THE RICH GET RICHER AND THE POOR GET POORER." The traditional methods of making money will never allow you to "move up" or "get rich", inflation will see to that. You have just received INF0RMATION that can give you financial freedom for the rest of your life, with "NO RISK" and "JUST A LITTLE BIT OF EFFORT." You can make more money in the next few months than you have ever imagined. Follow the program EXACTLY AS INSTRUCTED. Do not change it in any way. It works exceedingly well as it is now. Remember to e-mail a copy of this exciting report to everyone you can think of. One of the people you send this to may send out 100,000 or more...and your name will be on everyone of them! Remember though, the more you send out the more potential customers you will reach. So my friend, I have given you the ideas, INF0RMATION, materials and opportunity to become financially independent, IT IS UP TO YOU NOW! "THINK ABOUT IT" Before you delete this program from your mailbox, as I almost did, take a little time to read it and REALLY THINK ABOUT IT. Get a pencil and figure out what could happen when YOU participate. Figure out the worst possible response and no matter how you calculate it, you will still make a lot of money! You will definitely get back what you invested. Any doubts you have will vanish when your first orders come in. IT WORKS! HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PROGRAM WILL MAKE YOU THOUSANDS OF DOLLAR$ INSTRUCTIONS: This method of raising capital REALLY WORKS 100% EVERY TIME. I am sure that you could use up to $46,000 or more in the next 6 months. Before you say "BULL... ", please read this program carefully. This is not a chain letter, but a perfectly legal money making opportunity. Basically, this is what you do: As with all multi-level businesses, we build our business by recruiting new partners and selling our products. Because of the global nature of the internet, you will be able to recruit new multi-level business partners from all over the world, and we offer a product for EVERY dollar sent. YOUR ORDERS COME BY MAIL AND ARE FILLED BY E-MAIL, so you are not involved in personal selling. You do it privately in your own home, store or office. This is the GREATEST Multi-Level Mail Order Marketing anywhere. This is what you MUST do: 1. Order all 5 reports shown on the list below (you can't sell them if you don't order them). a. For each report, send $5.00 CASH, the NAME & NUMBER OF THE REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS, and YOUR NAME & RETURN ADDRESS (in case of a problem) to the person whose name appears on the list next to the report. MAKE SURE YOUR RETURN ADDRESS IS ON YOUR ENVELOPE IN CASE OF ANY MAIL PROBLEMS! b. When you place your order, make sure you order each of the five reports. You will need all five reports so that you can save them on your computer and resell them. c. Within a few days you will receive, via e-mail, each of the five reports. Save them on your computer so they will be accessible for you to send to the 1,000's of people who will order them from you. 2. IMPORTANT-- DO NOT alter the names of the people who are listed next to each report, or their sequence on the list, in any way other than is instructed below in steps "a" through "g" or you will lose out on the majority of your profits. Once you understand the way this works, you'll also see how it doesn't work if you change it. Remember, this method has been tested, and if you alter it, it will not work. a. Look below for the listing of available reports. b. After you've ordered the five reports, take this advertisement and REM0VE the name and address under REPORT #5. This person has made it through the cycle and is no doubt counting their $46,000! Also, change the name of the company, the address, and the REM0VE e-mail address on the top of this document to your own. c. Move the name and address under REPORT #4 down to REPORT #5. d. Move the name and address under REPORT #3 down to REPORT #4. e. Move the name and address under REPORT #2 down to REPORT #3. f. Move the name and address under REPORT #1 down to REPORT #2. g. Insert your name/address in the REPORT #1 position. Please make sure you copy every name and address ACCURATELY! 3. Take this entire letter, including the modified list of names, and save it to your computer. Make NO changes to the instruction portion of this letter. Your cost to participate in this is practically nothing (surely you can afford $25). You obviously already have an Internet connection and e-mail is FREE! To assist you with marketing your business on the internet, the 5 reports you purchase will provide you with invaluable marketing INF0RMATION which includes how to send bulk e-mails, where to find thousands of free classified ads and much, much more. There are two primary methods of building your downline: METHOD #1: SENDING BULK E-MAIL Let's say that you decide to start small, just to see how it goes, and we'll assume you and all those involved send out only 2,000 programs each. Let's also assume that the mailing receives a 0.3% response. Using a good list the response could be much better. Also, many people will send out hundreds of thousands of programs instead of 2,000. But continuing with this example, you send out only 2,000 programs. With a 0.3% response, that is only 6 orders for REPORT #1. Those 6 people respond by sending out 2,000 programs each for a total of 12,000. Out of those 0.3%, 36 people respond and order REPORT #2. Those 36 mail out 2,000 programs each for a total of 72,000. The 0.3% response to that is 216 orders for REPORT #3. Those 216 send out 2,000 programs each for a 432,000 total. The 0.3% response to that is 1,296 orders for REPORT #4. Those 1,296 send out 2,000 programs each for a 2,592,000 total. The 0.3% response to that is 7,776 orders for REPORT #5. That's 7,776 $5 bills for you, CASH!!! Your total income in this example is $30 + $180 + $1,080+ $6,480 + $38,880 for a total of $46,650!!! REMEMBER DEAR READER, THIS IS ASSUMING 1,994 OUT OF THE 2,000 PEOPLE YOU MAIL TO WILL DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AND TRASH THIS PROGRAM! DARE TO THINK FOR A MOMENT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF EVERYONE, OR HALF SENT OUT 100,000 PROGRAMS INSTEAD OF 2,000. Believe me, many people will do just that, and more! By the way, your cost to participate in this is practically nothing. You obviously already have an internet connection and e-mail is FREE!!! REPORT #2 and #5 will show you the best methods for bulk emailing, tell you where to obtain free bulk e-mail software and where to obtain e-mail lists and show you how to send out 1,000,000 e-mails for free. METHOD #2 - PLACING FREE ADS ON THE INTERNET 1. Advertising on the 'Net is very, very inexpensive, and there are HUNDREDS of FREE places to advertise. Let's say you decide to start small just to see how well it works. Assume your goal is to get ONLY 6 people to participate on your first level. (Placing a lot of FREE ads on the internet will EASILY get a larger response.) Also assume that everyone else in YOUR ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 6 downline members. Follow this example to achieve the STAGGERING results below. 1st level--your 6 members with $5 ($5 x 6)........................$30 2nd level--6 members from those 6 ($5 x 36)....................$180 3rd level--6 members from those 36 ($5 x 216)............ $1,080 4th level--6 members from those 216 ($5 x 1,296)....... $6,480 5th level-6 members from those 1,296 ($5 x 7,776)... $38,880 ..................................................$46,650 _________________________________________________________________________ Remember friends, this assumes that the people who participate only recruit 6 people each. Think for a moment what would happen if they got 20 people to participate! Many people will get 100's of participants! THINK ABOUT IT! For every $5.00 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them the report they ordered. THAT'S IT! ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS! This will guarantee that the e-mail THEY send out, with YOUR name and address on it, will be prompt because they can't advertise until they receive the report! _________________________________________________________________________ AVAILABLE REPORTS _________________________________________________________________________ *** Order Each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME *** Notes: ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH (U.S. CURRENCY) FOR EACH REPORT CHECKS NOT ACCEPTED ALWAYS SEND YOUR ORDER VIA FIRST CLASS MAIL Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least two sheets of paper. On one of those sheets of paper, include: (a) the number & name of the report you are ordering, (b) your e-mail address, and (c) your name & postal address. It's best to type this to avoid mistakes. PLACE YOUR ORDER FOR THESE REPORTS NOW: ______________________________________________________ REPORT #1 "The Insider's Guide to Advertising for Free on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #1 FROM: Stan LeFeber 1353 11th St. Slidell, LA 70458 ______________________________________________________ REPORT #2 "The Insider's Guide to Sending Bulk E-mail on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #2 FROM: Mrs. Paula Bowen 207 North Carolina Circle Mocksville, NC 27028 ______________________________________________________ REPORT #3 "The Secrets to Multilevel Marketing on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #3 FROM: Kimberly Fleming #936 c/o Landbase Australia Locked Bag 25 Gosford NSW 2250 Australia ______________________________________________________ REPORT #4 "How to become a Millionaire utilizing the Power of Multilevel Marketing and the Internet" ORDER REPORT #4 FROM: Destiny 2001 1105 Amble Lane Clearwater, FL 33755 ______________________________________________________ REPORT #5 "How to SEND 1,000,000 e-mails for FREE" ORDER REPORT #5 FROM: Kevin Zonner 166 Sherman Road Beaver Falls, PA 15010-9724 ______________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________ There currently more than 175,000,000 people online worldwide! ******* TIPS FOR SUCCESS ******* * TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS! Be prompt, professional, and follow the directions accurately. * Send for the five reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have them when the orders start coming in because: When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the requested product/report. * ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE. * Be patient and persistent with this program. If you follow the instructions exactly, your results WILL BE SUCCESSFUL! * ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL SUCCEED! ******* YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINES ******* Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success: If you don't receive 20 orders for REPORT #1 within two weeks, continue advertising or sending e-mails until you do. Then, a couple of weeks later you should receive at least 100 orders for REPORT#2. If you don't, continue advertising or sending e-mails until you do. Once you have received 100 or more orders for REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX, because the system is already working for you, and the cash will continue to roll in! THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER: Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed in front of a DIFFERENT report. You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching which report people are ordering from you. If you want to generate more income, send another batch of e-mails or continue placing ads and start the whole process again! There is no limit to the income you will generate from this business! Before you make your decision as to whether or not you participate in this program. Please answer one question. DO YOU WANT TO CHANGE YOUR LIFE? If the answer is yes, please look at the following facts about this program: 1. YOU ARE SELLING A PRODUCT WHICH DOES NOT COST ANYTHING TO PRODUCE! 2. YOU ARE SELLING A PRODUCT WHICH DOES NOT COST ANYTHING TO SHIP! 3. YOU ARE SELLING A PRODUCT WHICH DOES NOT COST YOU ANYTHING TO ADVERTISE! 4. YOU ARE UTILIZING THE POWER OF THE INTERNET AND THE POWER OF MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING TO DISTRIBUTE YOUR PRODUCT ALL OVER THE WORLD! 5. YOUR ONLY EXPENSES OTHER THAN YOUR INITIAL $25 INVESTMENT IS YOUR TIME! 6. VIRTUALLY ALL OF THE INCOME YOU GENERATE FROM THIS PROGRAM IS PURE PROFIT! ********************************************* ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO FINANCIAL FREEDOM! NOW IS THE TIME FOR YOUR TURN. DECISIVE ACTION YIELDS POWERFUL RESULTS. _________________________________________________________________________ PLEASE NOTE: If you need help with starting a business, registering a business name, learning how income tax is handled, etc., contact your local office of the Small Business Administration (a Federal agency) 1(800) 827-5722 for free help and answers to questions. Also, the Internal Revenue Service offers free help via telephone and free seminars about business tax requirements. Your earnings and results are highly dependant on your activities and advertising. This letter constitutes no guarantees stated nor implied. In the event that it is determined that this letter constitutes a guarantee of any kind, that guarantee is now void. Any testimonials or amounts of earnings listed in this letter may be factual or non-verifiable. If you have any question of the legality of this letter contact the Office of Associate Director for Marketing Practices Federal Trade Commission Bureau of Consumer Protection in Washington DC. _________________________________________________________________________ From High_Profits at hotmail.com Sat Jul 7 12:48:29 2001 From: High_Profits at hotmail.com (High_Profits at hotmail.com) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 14:48:29 -0500 Subject: Message-ID: <200107071938.f67Jchq05329@pax.minder.net> This will only take a few minutes of your time to read. If you read it and think it is a scam then delete this email and thank you for your time. I, however, don't believe you will delete it once you read everything it has to say. _________________________________________________________________________ Here is the information you requested. This is not spam. You are receiving this e-mail because you or someone else requested this information. IF YOU FEEL YOU HAVE RECIEVED THIS EMAIL IN ERROR, OR HAVE NOT SIGNED UP TO RECIEVE OPT-IN EMAIL, PLEASE REPLY TO THIS EMAIL WITH 'REMOVE' IN THE SUBJECT LINE. WE DO NOT SUPPORT THE SENDING OF UNSOLICITED E-MAILS. _________________________________________________________________________ WORK AT HOME USING YOUR COMPUTER!!! _________________________________________________________________________ Dear Friend, You can earn $46,000 or more in next the 6 months sending e-mail. Seem impossible? Read on for details (no, there is no "catch")... _________________________________________________________________________ "AS SEEN ON NATIONAL T.V." Thank you for your time and Interest. This is the letter you've been reading about in the news lately. Due to the popularity of this letter on the internet, a major nightly news program recently devoted an entire show to the investigation of the program described below, to see if it really can make people money. The show also investigated whether or not the program was legal. Their findings proved once and for all that there are, absolutely no laws prohibiting the participation in the program. This has helped to show people that this is a simple, harmless and fun way to make some extra money at home. The results of this show has been truly remarkable. So many people are participating that those involved are doing, much better than ever before. Since everyone makes more as more people try it out, its been very exciting to be a part of this lately. You will understand once you experience it. "HERE IT IS BELOW" _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ *** Print This Now For Future Reference *** The following income opportunity is one you may be interested in taking a look at. It can be started with VERY LITTLE investment and the income return is TREMENDOUS!!! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ If you would like to make at least $46,000 in less than 6 months! Please read the enclosed program...THEN READ IT AGAIN!!! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ THIS IS A LEGITIMATE, LEGAL, MONEY MAKING OPPORTUNITY. It does not require you to come into contact with people, do any hard work, and best of all, you never have to leave the house except to get the mail. If you believe that someday you'll get that big break that you've been waiting for, THIS IS IT! Simply follow the instructions, and your dreams will come true. This multi-level e-mail order marketing program works perfectly...100% EVERY TIME. E-mail is the sales tool of the future. Take advantage of this non-commercialized method of advertising NOW!!! The longer you wait, the more people will be doing business using e-mail. Get your piece of this action!!! MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING (MLM) has finally gained respectability. It is being taught in the Harvard Business School, and both Stanford Research and the Wall Street Journal have stated that between 50% and 65% of all goods and services will be sold through multi-level methods by the mid to late 1990's. This is a Multi-Billion Dollar industry and of the 3,500,000 millionaires in the WORLD, 20% ( 700,000) made their fortune in the last several years in MLM. Moreover, statistics show that over 100 people become millionaires everyday through Multi-Level Marketing. You may have heard this story before, but over the summer Donald Trump (A MULTI-BILLIONAIRE, ONE OF THE WEALTHIEST MEN IN THE WORLD) made an appearance on the David Letterman show. Dave asked him what he would do if he lost everything and had to start over from scratch. Without hesitating, Trump said he would find a good network marketing company and get to work. The audience started to hoot and boo him. He looked out at the audience and dead-panned his response "That's why I'm sitting up here and you are all sitting out there!" With network marketing you have two sources of income. Direct commissions from sales you make yourself and commissions from sales made by people you introduce to the business. Residual income is the secret of the wealthy. It means investing time or money once and getting paid again and again and again. In network marketing, it also means getting paid for the work of others. This program is currently being utilized in more than 50 different countries across the world. The middle class was vanishing. Those who knew what they were doing invested wisely and moved up. Those who did not, including those who never had anything to save or invest, were moving down into the ranks of the poor. As the saying goes, "THE RICH GET RICHER AND THE POOR GET POORER." The traditional methods of making money will never allow you to "move up" or "get rich", inflation will see to that. You have just received INF0RMATION that can give you financial freedom for the rest of your life, with "NO RISK" and "JUST A LITTLE BIT OF EFFORT." You can make more money in the next few months than you have ever imagined. Follow the program EXACTLY AS INSTRUCTED. Do not change it in any way. It works exceedingly well as it is now. Remember to e-mail a copy of this exciting report to everyone you can think of. One of the people you send this to may send out 100,000 or more...and your name will be on everyone of them! Remember though, the more you send out the more potential customers you will reach. So my friend, I have given you the ideas, INF0RMATION, materials and opportunity to become financially independent, IT IS UP TO YOU NOW! "THINK ABOUT IT" Before you delete this program from your mailbox, as I almost did, take a little time to read it and REALLY THINK ABOUT IT. Get a pencil and figure out what could happen when YOU participate. Figure out the worst possible response and no matter how you calculate it, you will still make a lot of money! You will definitely get back what you invested. Any doubts you have will vanish when your first orders come in. IT WORKS! HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PROGRAM WILL MAKE YOU THOUSANDS OF DOLLAR$ INSTRUCTIONS: This method of raising capital REALLY WORKS 100% EVERY TIME. I am sure that you could use up to $46,000 or more in the next 6 months. Before you say "BULL... ", please read this program carefully. This is not a chain letter, but a perfectly legal money making opportunity. Basically, this is what you do: As with all multi-level businesses, we build our business by recruiting new partners and selling our products. Because of the global nature of the internet, you will be able to recruit new multi-level business partners from all over the world, and we offer a product for EVERY dollar sent. YOUR ORDERS COME BY MAIL AND ARE FILLED BY E-MAIL, so you are not involved in personal selling. You do it privately in your own home, store or office. This is the GREATEST Multi-Level Mail Order Marketing anywhere. This is what you MUST do: 1. Order all 5 reports shown on the list below (you can't sell them if you don't order them). a. For each report, send $5.00 CASH, the NAME & NUMBER OF THE REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS, and YOUR NAME & RETURN ADDRESS (in case of a problem) to the person whose name appears on the list next to the report. MAKE SURE YOUR RETURN ADDRESS IS ON YOUR ENVELOPE IN CASE OF ANY MAIL PROBLEMS! b. When you place your order, make sure you order each of the five reports. You will need all five reports so that you can save them on your computer and resell them. c. Within a few days you will receive, via e-mail, each of the five reports. Save them on your computer so they will be accessible for you to send to the 1,000's of people who will order them from you. 2. IMPORTANT-- DO NOT alter the names of the people who are listed next to each report, or their sequence on the list, in any way other than is instructed below in steps "a" through "g" or you will lose out on the majority of your profits. Once you understand the way this works, you'll also see how it doesn't work if you change it. Remember, this method has been tested, and if you alter it, it will not work. a. Look below for the listing of available reports. b. After you've ordered the five reports, take this advertisement and REM0VE the name and address under REPORT #5. This person has made it through the cycle and is no doubt counting their $46,000! Also, change the name of the company, the address, and the REM0VE e-mail address on the top of this document to your own. c. Move the name and address under REPORT #4 down to REPORT #5. d. Move the name and address under REPORT #3 down to REPORT #4. e. Move the name and address under REPORT #2 down to REPORT #3. f. Move the name and address under REPORT #1 down to REPORT #2. g. Insert your name/address in the REPORT #1 position. Please make sure you copy every name and address ACCURATELY! 3. Take this entire letter, including the modified list of names, and save it to your computer. Make NO changes to the instruction portion of this letter. Your cost to participate in this is practically nothing (surely you can afford $25). You obviously already have an Internet connection and e-mail is FREE! To assist you with marketing your business on the internet, the 5 reports you purchase will provide you with invaluable marketing INF0RMATION which includes how to send bulk e-mails, where to find thousands of free classified ads and much, much more. There are two primary methods of building your downline: METHOD #1: SENDING BULK E-MAIL Let's say that you decide to start small, just to see how it goes, and we'll assume you and all those involved send out only 2,000 programs each. Let's also assume that the mailing receives a 0.3% response. Using a good list the response could be much better. Also, many people will send out hundreds of thousands of programs instead of 2,000. But continuing with this example, you send out only 2,000 programs. With a 0.3% response, that is only 6 orders for REPORT #1. Those 6 people respond by sending out 2,000 programs each for a total of 12,000. Out of those 0.3%, 36 people respond and order REPORT #2. Those 36 mail out 2,000 programs each for a total of 72,000. The 0.3% response to that is 216 orders for REPORT #3. Those 216 send out 2,000 programs each for a 432,000 total. The 0.3% response to that is 1,296 orders for REPORT #4. Those 1,296 send out 2,000 programs each for a 2,592,000 total. The 0.3% response to that is 7,776 orders for REPORT #5. That's 7,776 $5 bills for you, CASH!!! Your total income in this example is $30 + $180 + $1,080+ $6,480 + $38,880 for a total of $46,650!!! REMEMBER DEAR READER, THIS IS ASSUMING 1,994 OUT OF THE 2,000 PEOPLE YOU MAIL TO WILL DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AND TRASH THIS PROGRAM! DARE TO THINK FOR A MOMENT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF EVERYONE, OR HALF SENT OUT 100,000 PROGRAMS INSTEAD OF 2,000. Believe me, many people will do just that, and more! By the way, your cost to participate in this is practically nothing. You obviously already have an internet connection and e-mail is FREE!!! REPORT #2 and #5 will show you the best methods for bulk emailing, tell you where to obtain free bulk e-mail software and where to obtain e-mail lists and show you how to send out 1,000,000 e-mails for free. METHOD #2 - PLACING FREE ADS ON THE INTERNET 1. Advertising on the 'Net is very, very inexpensive, and there are HUNDREDS of FREE places to advertise. Let's say you decide to start small just to see how well it works. Assume your goal is to get ONLY 6 people to participate on your first level. (Placing a lot of FREE ads on the internet will EASILY get a larger response.) Also assume that everyone else in YOUR ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 6 downline members. Follow this example to achieve the STAGGERING results below. 1st level--your 6 members with $5 ($5 x 6)........................$30 2nd level--6 members from those 6 ($5 x 36)....................$180 3rd level--6 members from those 36 ($5 x 216)............ $1,080 4th level--6 members from those 216 ($5 x 1,296)....... $6,480 5th level-6 members from those 1,296 ($5 x 7,776)... $38,880 ..................................................$46,650 _________________________________________________________________________ Remember friends, this assumes that the people who participate only recruit 6 people each. Think for a moment what would happen if they got 20 people to participate! Many people will get 100's of participants! THINK ABOUT IT! For every $5.00 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them the report they ordered. THAT'S IT! ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS! This will guarantee that the e-mail THEY send out, with YOUR name and address on it, will be prompt because they can't advertise until they receive the report! _________________________________________________________________________ AVAILABLE REPORTS _________________________________________________________________________ *** Order Each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME *** Notes: ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH (U.S. CURRENCY) FOR EACH REPORT CHECKS NOT ACCEPTED ALWAYS SEND YOUR ORDER VIA FIRST CLASS MAIL Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least two sheets of paper. On one of those sheets of paper, include: (a) the number & name of the report you are ordering, (b) your e-mail address, and (c) your name & postal address. It's best to type this to avoid mistakes. PLACE YOUR ORDER FOR THESE REPORTS NOW: ______________________________________________________ REPORT #1 "The Insider's Guide to Advertising for Free on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #1 FROM: Stan LeFeber 1353 11th St. Slidell, LA 70458 ______________________________________________________ REPORT #2 "The Insider's Guide to Sending Bulk E-mail on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #2 FROM: Mrs. Paula Bowen 207 North Carolina Circle Mocksville, NC 27028 ______________________________________________________ REPORT #3 "The Secrets to Multilevel Marketing on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #3 FROM: Kimberly Fleming #936 c/o Landbase Australia Locked Bag 25 Gosford NSW 2250 Australia ______________________________________________________ REPORT #4 "How to become a Millionaire utilizing the Power of Multilevel Marketing and the Internet" ORDER REPORT #4 FROM: Destiny 2001 1105 Amble Lane Clearwater, FL 33755 ______________________________________________________ REPORT #5 "How to SEND 1,000,000 e-mails for FREE" ORDER REPORT #5 FROM: Kevin Zonner 166 Sherman Road Beaver Falls, PA 15010-9724 ______________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________ There currently more than 175,000,000 people online worldwide! ******* TIPS FOR SUCCESS ******* * TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS! Be prompt, professional, and follow the directions accurately. * Send for the five reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have them when the orders start coming in because: When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the requested product/report. * ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE. * Be patient and persistent with this program. If you follow the instructions exactly, your results WILL BE SUCCESSFUL! * ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL SUCCEED! ******* YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINES ******* Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success: If you don't receive 20 orders for REPORT #1 within two weeks, continue advertising or sending e-mails until you do. Then, a couple of weeks later you should receive at least 100 orders for REPORT#2. If you don't, continue advertising or sending e-mails until you do. Once you have received 100 or more orders for REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX, because the system is already working for you, and the cash will continue to roll in! THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER: Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed in front of a DIFFERENT report. You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching which report people are ordering from you. If you want to generate more income, send another batch of e-mails or continue placing ads and start the whole process again! There is no limit to the income you will generate from this business! Before you make your decision as to whether or not you participate in this program. Please answer one question. DO YOU WANT TO CHANGE YOUR LIFE? If the answer is yes, please look at the following facts about this program: 1. YOU ARE SELLING A PRODUCT WHICH DOES NOT COST ANYTHING TO PRODUCE! 2. YOU ARE SELLING A PRODUCT WHICH DOES NOT COST ANYTHING TO SHIP! 3. YOU ARE SELLING A PRODUCT WHICH DOES NOT COST YOU ANYTHING TO ADVERTISE! 4. YOU ARE UTILIZING THE POWER OF THE INTERNET AND THE POWER OF MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING TO DISTRIBUTE YOUR PRODUCT ALL OVER THE WORLD! 5. YOUR ONLY EXPENSES OTHER THAN YOUR INITIAL $25 INVESTMENT IS YOUR TIME! 6. VIRTUALLY ALL OF THE INCOME YOU GENERATE FROM THIS PROGRAM IS PURE PROFIT! ********************************************* ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO FINANCIAL FREEDOM! NOW IS THE TIME FOR YOUR TURN. DECISIVE ACTION YIELDS POWERFUL RESULTS. _________________________________________________________________________ PLEASE NOTE: If you need help with starting a business, registering a business name, learning how income tax is handled, etc., contact your local office of the Small Business Administration (a Federal agency) 1(800) 827-5722 for free help and answers to questions. Also, the Internal Revenue Service offers free help via telephone and free seminars about business tax requirements. Your earnings and results are highly dependant on your activities and advertising. This letter constitutes no guarantees stated nor implied. In the event that it is determined that this letter constitutes a guarantee of any kind, that guarantee is now void. Any testimonials or amounts of earnings listed in this letter may be factual or non-verifiable. If you have any question of the legality of this letter contact the Office of Associate Director for Marketing Practices Federal Trade Commission Bureau of Consumer Protection in Washington DC. _________________________________________________________________________ From High_Profits at hotmail.com Sat Jul 7 12:48:58 2001 From: High_Profits at hotmail.com (High_Profits at hotmail.com) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 14:48:58 -0500 Subject: Message-ID: <200107071939.PAA11912@waste.minder.net> This will only take a few minutes of your time to read. If you read it and think it is a scam then delete this email and thank you for your time. I, however, don't believe you will delete it once you read everything it has to say. _________________________________________________________________________ Here is the information you requested. This is not spam. You are receiving this e-mail because you or someone else requested this information. IF YOU FEEL YOU HAVE RECIEVED THIS EMAIL IN ERROR, OR HAVE NOT SIGNED UP TO RECIEVE OPT-IN EMAIL, PLEASE REPLY TO THIS EMAIL WITH 'REMOVE' IN THE SUBJECT LINE. WE DO NOT SUPPORT THE SENDING OF UNSOLICITED E-MAILS. _________________________________________________________________________ WORK AT HOME USING YOUR COMPUTER!!! _________________________________________________________________________ Dear Friend, You can earn $46,000 or more in next the 6 months sending e-mail. Seem impossible? Read on for details (no, there is no "catch")... _________________________________________________________________________ "AS SEEN ON NATIONAL T.V." Thank you for your time and Interest. This is the letter you've been reading about in the news lately. Due to the popularity of this letter on the internet, a major nightly news program recently devoted an entire show to the investigation of the program described below, to see if it really can make people money. The show also investigated whether or not the program was legal. Their findings proved once and for all that there are, absolutely no laws prohibiting the participation in the program. This has helped to show people that this is a simple, harmless and fun way to make some extra money at home. The results of this show has been truly remarkable. So many people are participating that those involved are doing, much better than ever before. Since everyone makes more as more people try it out, its been very exciting to be a part of this lately. You will understand once you experience it. "HERE IT IS BELOW" _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ *** Print This Now For Future Reference *** The following income opportunity is one you may be interested in taking a look at. It can be started with VERY LITTLE investment and the income return is TREMENDOUS!!! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ If you would like to make at least $46,000 in less than 6 months! Please read the enclosed program...THEN READ IT AGAIN!!! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ THIS IS A LEGITIMATE, LEGAL, MONEY MAKING OPPORTUNITY. It does not require you to come into contact with people, do any hard work, and best of all, you never have to leave the house except to get the mail. If you believe that someday you'll get that big break that you've been waiting for, THIS IS IT! Simply follow the instructions, and your dreams will come true. This multi-level e-mail order marketing program works perfectly...100% EVERY TIME. E-mail is the sales tool of the future. Take advantage of this non-commercialized method of advertising NOW!!! The longer you wait, the more people will be doing business using e-mail. Get your piece of this action!!! MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING (MLM) has finally gained respectability. It is being taught in the Harvard Business School, and both Stanford Research and the Wall Street Journal have stated that between 50% and 65% of all goods and services will be sold through multi-level methods by the mid to late 1990's. This is a Multi-Billion Dollar industry and of the 3,500,000 millionaires in the WORLD, 20% ( 700,000) made their fortune in the last several years in MLM. Moreover, statistics show that over 100 people become millionaires everyday through Multi-Level Marketing. You may have heard this story before, but over the summer Donald Trump (A MULTI-BILLIONAIRE, ONE OF THE WEALTHIEST MEN IN THE WORLD) made an appearance on the David Letterman show. Dave asked him what he would do if he lost everything and had to start over from scratch. Without hesitating, Trump said he would find a good network marketing company and get to work. The audience started to hoot and boo him. He looked out at the audience and dead-panned his response "That's why I'm sitting up here and you are all sitting out there!" With network marketing you have two sources of income. Direct commissions from sales you make yourself and commissions from sales made by people you introduce to the business. Residual income is the secret of the wealthy. It means investing time or money once and getting paid again and again and again. In network marketing, it also means getting paid for the work of others. This program is currently being utilized in more than 50 different countries across the world. The middle class was vanishing. Those who knew what they were doing invested wisely and moved up. Those who did not, including those who never had anything to save or invest, were moving down into the ranks of the poor. As the saying goes, "THE RICH GET RICHER AND THE POOR GET POORER." The traditional methods of making money will never allow you to "move up" or "get rich", inflation will see to that. You have just received INF0RMATION that can give you financial freedom for the rest of your life, with "NO RISK" and "JUST A LITTLE BIT OF EFFORT." You can make more money in the next few months than you have ever imagined. Follow the program EXACTLY AS INSTRUCTED. Do not change it in any way. It works exceedingly well as it is now. Remember to e-mail a copy of this exciting report to everyone you can think of. One of the people you send this to may send out 100,000 or more...and your name will be on everyone of them! Remember though, the more you send out the more potential customers you will reach. So my friend, I have given you the ideas, INF0RMATION, materials and opportunity to become financially independent, IT IS UP TO YOU NOW! "THINK ABOUT IT" Before you delete this program from your mailbox, as I almost did, take a little time to read it and REALLY THINK ABOUT IT. Get a pencil and figure out what could happen when YOU participate. Figure out the worst possible response and no matter how you calculate it, you will still make a lot of money! You will definitely get back what you invested. Any doubts you have will vanish when your first orders come in. IT WORKS! HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PROGRAM WILL MAKE YOU THOUSANDS OF DOLLAR$ INSTRUCTIONS: This method of raising capital REALLY WORKS 100% EVERY TIME. I am sure that you could use up to $46,000 or more in the next 6 months. Before you say "BULL... ", please read this program carefully. This is not a chain letter, but a perfectly legal money making opportunity. Basically, this is what you do: As with all multi-level businesses, we build our business by recruiting new partners and selling our products. Because of the global nature of the internet, you will be able to recruit new multi-level business partners from all over the world, and we offer a product for EVERY dollar sent. YOUR ORDERS COME BY MAIL AND ARE FILLED BY E-MAIL, so you are not involved in personal selling. You do it privately in your own home, store or office. This is the GREATEST Multi-Level Mail Order Marketing anywhere. This is what you MUST do: 1. Order all 5 reports shown on the list below (you can't sell them if you don't order them). a. For each report, send $5.00 CASH, the NAME & NUMBER OF THE REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS, and YOUR NAME & RETURN ADDRESS (in case of a problem) to the person whose name appears on the list next to the report. MAKE SURE YOUR RETURN ADDRESS IS ON YOUR ENVELOPE IN CASE OF ANY MAIL PROBLEMS! b. When you place your order, make sure you order each of the five reports. You will need all five reports so that you can save them on your computer and resell them. c. Within a few days you will receive, via e-mail, each of the five reports. Save them on your computer so they will be accessible for you to send to the 1,000's of people who will order them from you. 2. IMPORTANT-- DO NOT alter the names of the people who are listed next to each report, or their sequence on the list, in any way other than is instructed below in steps "a" through "g" or you will lose out on the majority of your profits. Once you understand the way this works, you'll also see how it doesn't work if you change it. Remember, this method has been tested, and if you alter it, it will not work. a. Look below for the listing of available reports. b. After you've ordered the five reports, take this advertisement and REM0VE the name and address under REPORT #5. This person has made it through the cycle and is no doubt counting their $46,000! Also, change the name of the company, the address, and the REM0VE e-mail address on the top of this document to your own. c. Move the name and address under REPORT #4 down to REPORT #5. d. Move the name and address under REPORT #3 down to REPORT #4. e. Move the name and address under REPORT #2 down to REPORT #3. f. Move the name and address under REPORT #1 down to REPORT #2. g. Insert your name/address in the REPORT #1 position. Please make sure you copy every name and address ACCURATELY! 3. Take this entire letter, including the modified list of names, and save it to your computer. Make NO changes to the instruction portion of this letter. Your cost to participate in this is practically nothing (surely you can afford $25). You obviously already have an Internet connection and e-mail is FREE! To assist you with marketing your business on the internet, the 5 reports you purchase will provide you with invaluable marketing INF0RMATION which includes how to send bulk e-mails, where to find thousands of free classified ads and much, much more. There are two primary methods of building your downline: METHOD #1: SENDING BULK E-MAIL Let's say that you decide to start small, just to see how it goes, and we'll assume you and all those involved send out only 2,000 programs each. Let's also assume that the mailing receives a 0.3% response. Using a good list the response could be much better. Also, many people will send out hundreds of thousands of programs instead of 2,000. But continuing with this example, you send out only 2,000 programs. With a 0.3% response, that is only 6 orders for REPORT #1. Those 6 people respond by sending out 2,000 programs each for a total of 12,000. Out of those 0.3%, 36 people respond and order REPORT #2. Those 36 mail out 2,000 programs each for a total of 72,000. The 0.3% response to that is 216 orders for REPORT #3. Those 216 send out 2,000 programs each for a 432,000 total. The 0.3% response to that is 1,296 orders for REPORT #4. Those 1,296 send out 2,000 programs each for a 2,592,000 total. The 0.3% response to that is 7,776 orders for REPORT #5. That's 7,776 $5 bills for you, CASH!!! Your total income in this example is $30 + $180 + $1,080+ $6,480 + $38,880 for a total of $46,650!!! REMEMBER DEAR READER, THIS IS ASSUMING 1,994 OUT OF THE 2,000 PEOPLE YOU MAIL TO WILL DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AND TRASH THIS PROGRAM! DARE TO THINK FOR A MOMENT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF EVERYONE, OR HALF SENT OUT 100,000 PROGRAMS INSTEAD OF 2,000. Believe me, many people will do just that, and more! By the way, your cost to participate in this is practically nothing. You obviously already have an internet connection and e-mail is FREE!!! REPORT #2 and #5 will show you the best methods for bulk emailing, tell you where to obtain free bulk e-mail software and where to obtain e-mail lists and show you how to send out 1,000,000 e-mails for free. METHOD #2 - PLACING FREE ADS ON THE INTERNET 1. Advertising on the 'Net is very, very inexpensive, and there are HUNDREDS of FREE places to advertise. Let's say you decide to start small just to see how well it works. Assume your goal is to get ONLY 6 people to participate on your first level. (Placing a lot of FREE ads on the internet will EASILY get a larger response.) Also assume that everyone else in YOUR ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 6 downline members. Follow this example to achieve the STAGGERING results below. 1st level--your 6 members with $5 ($5 x 6)........................$30 2nd level--6 members from those 6 ($5 x 36)....................$180 3rd level--6 members from those 36 ($5 x 216)............ $1,080 4th level--6 members from those 216 ($5 x 1,296)....... $6,480 5th level-6 members from those 1,296 ($5 x 7,776)... $38,880 ..................................................$46,650 _________________________________________________________________________ Remember friends, this assumes that the people who participate only recruit 6 people each. Think for a moment what would happen if they got 20 people to participate! Many people will get 100's of participants! THINK ABOUT IT! For every $5.00 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them the report they ordered. THAT'S IT! ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS! This will guarantee that the e-mail THEY send out, with YOUR name and address on it, will be prompt because they can't advertise until they receive the report! _________________________________________________________________________ AVAILABLE REPORTS _________________________________________________________________________ *** Order Each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME *** Notes: ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH (U.S. CURRENCY) FOR EACH REPORT CHECKS NOT ACCEPTED ALWAYS SEND YOUR ORDER VIA FIRST CLASS MAIL Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least two sheets of paper. On one of those sheets of paper, include: (a) the number & name of the report you are ordering, (b) your e-mail address, and (c) your name & postal address. It's best to type this to avoid mistakes. PLACE YOUR ORDER FOR THESE REPORTS NOW: ______________________________________________________ REPORT #1 "The Insider's Guide to Advertising for Free on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #1 FROM: Stan LeFeber 1353 11th St. Slidell, LA 70458 ______________________________________________________ REPORT #2 "The Insider's Guide to Sending Bulk E-mail on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #2 FROM: Mrs. Paula Bowen 207 North Carolina Circle Mocksville, NC 27028 ______________________________________________________ REPORT #3 "The Secrets to Multilevel Marketing on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #3 FROM: Kimberly Fleming #936 c/o Landbase Australia Locked Bag 25 Gosford NSW 2250 Australia ______________________________________________________ REPORT #4 "How to become a Millionaire utilizing the Power of Multilevel Marketing and the Internet" ORDER REPORT #4 FROM: Destiny 2001 1105 Amble Lane Clearwater, FL 33755 ______________________________________________________ REPORT #5 "How to SEND 1,000,000 e-mails for FREE" ORDER REPORT #5 FROM: Kevin Zonner 166 Sherman Road Beaver Falls, PA 15010-9724 ______________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________ There currently more than 175,000,000 people online worldwide! ******* TIPS FOR SUCCESS ******* * TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS! Be prompt, professional, and follow the directions accurately. * Send for the five reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have them when the orders start coming in because: When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the requested product/report. * ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE. * Be patient and persistent with this program. If you follow the instructions exactly, your results WILL BE SUCCESSFUL! * ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL SUCCEED! ******* YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINES ******* Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success: If you don't receive 20 orders for REPORT #1 within two weeks, continue advertising or sending e-mails until you do. Then, a couple of weeks later you should receive at least 100 orders for REPORT#2. If you don't, continue advertising or sending e-mails until you do. Once you have received 100 or more orders for REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX, because the system is already working for you, and the cash will continue to roll in! THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER: Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed in front of a DIFFERENT report. You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching which report people are ordering from you. If you want to generate more income, send another batch of e-mails or continue placing ads and start the whole process again! There is no limit to the income you will generate from this business! Before you make your decision as to whether or not you participate in this program. Please answer one question. DO YOU WANT TO CHANGE YOUR LIFE? If the answer is yes, please look at the following facts about this program: 1. YOU ARE SELLING A PRODUCT WHICH DOES NOT COST ANYTHING TO PRODUCE! 2. YOU ARE SELLING A PRODUCT WHICH DOES NOT COST ANYTHING TO SHIP! 3. YOU ARE SELLING A PRODUCT WHICH DOES NOT COST YOU ANYTHING TO ADVERTISE! 4. YOU ARE UTILIZING THE POWER OF THE INTERNET AND THE POWER OF MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING TO DISTRIBUTE YOUR PRODUCT ALL OVER THE WORLD! 5. YOUR ONLY EXPENSES OTHER THAN YOUR INITIAL $25 INVESTMENT IS YOUR TIME! 6. VIRTUALLY ALL OF THE INCOME YOU GENERATE FROM THIS PROGRAM IS PURE PROFIT! ********************************************* ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO FINANCIAL FREEDOM! NOW IS THE TIME FOR YOUR TURN. DECISIVE ACTION YIELDS POWERFUL RESULTS. _________________________________________________________________________ PLEASE NOTE: If you need help with starting a business, registering a business name, learning how income tax is handled, etc., contact your local office of the Small Business Administration (a Federal agency) 1(800) 827-5722 for free help and answers to questions. Also, the Internal Revenue Service offers free help via telephone and free seminars about business tax requirements. Your earnings and results are highly dependant on your activities and advertising. This letter constitutes no guarantees stated nor implied. In the event that it is determined that this letter constitutes a guarantee of any kind, that guarantee is now void. Any testimonials or amounts of earnings listed in this letter may be factual or non-verifiable. If you have any question of the legality of this letter contact the Office of Associate Director for Marketing Practices Federal Trade Commission Bureau of Consumer Protection in Washington DC. _________________________________________________________________________ From rolick571 at duq.edu Sat Jul 7 12:22:07 2001 From: rolick571 at duq.edu (coldfire) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 15:22:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: In-Reply-To: <200107072126.f67LQQj01488@rigel.cyberpass.net> Message-ID: > This will only take a few minutes of your time to read. If you read > it and think it is a scam then delete this email and thank you for > your time. I, however, don't believe you will delete it once you > read everything it has to say. wrong ... deleted it about 2 lines in ... From honig at sprynet.com Sat Jul 7 16:00:43 2001 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 16:00:43 -0700 Subject: Meatspace anonymity manual In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010707160043.00817330@pop.sprynet.com> At 09:36 AM 7/7/01 -0700, Ray Dillinger wrote: >The similar clothing is enough to charge with gang membership and invoke >RICO. I love it. If my kid goes to public school, he'll be prohibited from wearing >= 50% black clothing as that would indicate sympathy with an UnAmerican Activity. From reeza at flex.com Sat Jul 7 20:31:02 2001 From: reeza at flex.com (Reese) Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 17:31:02 -1000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010707173046.00ce36a0@flex.com> subscribe cypherpunks From CasinoXO.com at rigel.cyberpass.net Sat Jul 7 19:39:33 2001 From: CasinoXO.com at rigel.cyberpass.net (CasinoXO.com at rigel.cyberpass.net) Date: 07 Jul 2001 22:39:33 -0400 Subject: CasinoXO - 50% Bonus - 250$ Message-ID: <200107080533.f685XHj18456@rigel.cyberpass.net> -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- (This safeguard is not inserted when using the registered version) -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- (This safeguard is not inserted when using the registered version) -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 5792 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nobody at remailer.privacy.at Sat Jul 7 14:49:02 2001 From: nobody at remailer.privacy.at (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 23:49:02 +0200 Subject: Meatspace anonymity manual Message-ID: >Black Blockers are willing to operate in ways diametrically opposed to the >core anachist ideology, the whole thing seems both clueless and Bullshit. The anarchist "ideology" (which is a stupid assertion in itself) does not comprise of standing on the road alone to be run over by the truck. Anarchists were organised quite well at times. And chastising anarchists for not following "their ideology" makes you the Idiot of the Month. Re: Black Bloc on Broadway >Yes the smells-like-teen-spirit-'anarchists' are good for little more than a laugh, >though they're setting themselves up as the next domestic boogeymen after the militia Any display of force against the establishment is a very serious business. Societal order is always based on force/guns and any real challenge comes through force. On some grand scale of things, teenage black blocing will influence society more than any intellectual discourse on any forum. That is why the pigs are there and not in Tim May's* place or Chomsky's lecture - the language and semantics of both of them do not represent a threat to the establishment, they are harmless and benign. So it is quite masturbatory (in the bad meaning of the word) to denigrate kid's actions on the streets. There is no record in the recent history (few thousand years) that any real change was effected without force. Everything else is pacifying farce. * This is purely stereotypical and has nothing to do with the actual TM. From "Stock Survey " at ak47.algebra.com Sat Jul 7 16:19:07 2001 From: "Stock Survey " at ak47.algebra.com ("Stock Survey " at ak47.algebra.com) Date: 08 Jul 2001 00:19:07 +0100 Subject: Internet Stock Survey Message-ID: Dear Sir/Madam, Please allow me to introduce my firm, Internet Stock Surveys. We are undertaking a survey for a syndicate of major financial institutions to determine what their customers want of them. If you could take 3 minutes of your time to complete the survey, not only would we be grateful but you will be entered into a prize draw to win one of five $10,000 online trading accounts at the online broker of your choice. Confidentiality statement: This survey is completely confidential. Your details will not be released to the participating financial institutions or anyone else. If you have any questions, please email us on info at internetstocksurvey.freeserve.co.uk Please click the following link to enter the 3 minute survey: http://www.internetstocksurvey.freeserve.co.uk Nigel Forde, President Internet Stock Surveys From "Stock Survey " at ak47.algebra.com Sat Jul 7 16:19:08 2001 From: "Stock Survey " at ak47.algebra.com ("Stock Survey " at ak47.algebra.com) Date: 08 Jul 2001 00:19:08 +0100 Subject: Internet Stock Survey Message-ID: Dear Sir/Madam, Please allow me to introduce my firm, Internet Stock Surveys. We are undertaking a survey for a syndicate of major financial institutions to determine what their customers want of them. If you could take 3 minutes of your time to complete the survey, not only would we be grateful but you will be entered into a prize draw to win one of five $10,000 online trading accounts at the online broker of your choice. Confidentiality statement: This survey is completely confidential. Your details will not be released to the participating financial institutions or anyone else. If you have any questions, please email us on info at internetstocksurvey.freeserve.co.uk Please click the following link to enter the 3 minute survey: http://www.internetstocksurvey.freeserve.co.uk Nigel Forde, President Internet Stock Surveys From "Stock Survey " at ak47.algebra.com Sat Jul 7 16:19:09 2001 From: "Stock Survey " at ak47.algebra.com ("Stock Survey " at ak47.algebra.com) Date: 08 Jul 2001 00:19:09 +0100 Subject: Internet Stock Survey Message-ID: Dear Sir/Madam, Please allow me to introduce my firm, Internet Stock Surveys. We are undertaking a survey for a syndicate of major financial institutions to determine what their customers want of them. If you could take 3 minutes of your time to complete the survey, not only would we be grateful but you will be entered into a prize draw to win one of five $10,000 online trading accounts at the online broker of your choice. Confidentiality statement: This survey is completely confidential. Your details will not be released to the participating financial institutions or anyone else. If you have any questions, please email us on info at internetstocksurvey.freeserve.co.uk Please click the following link to enter the 3 minute survey: http://www.internetstocksurvey.freeserve.co.uk Nigel Forde, President Internet Stock Surveys From "Stock Survey " at rigel.cyberpass.net Sat Jul 7 16:19:11 2001 From: "Stock Survey " at rigel.cyberpass.net ("Stock Survey " at rigel.cyberpass.net) Date: 08 Jul 2001 00:19:11 +0100 Subject: Internet Stock Survey Message-ID: Dear Sir/Madam, Please allow me to introduce my firm, Internet Stock Surveys. We are undertaking a survey for a syndicate of major financial institutions to determine what their customers want of them. If you could take 3 minutes of your time to complete the survey, not only would we be grateful but you will be entered into a prize draw to win one of five $10,000 online trading accounts at the online broker of your choice. Confidentiality statement: This survey is completely confidential. Your details will not be released to the participating financial institutions or anyone else. If you have any questions, please email us on info at internetstocksurvey.freeserve.co.uk Please click the following link to enter the 3 minute survey: http://www.internetstocksurvey.freeserve.co.uk Nigel Forde, President Internet Stock Surveys From "Stock Survey " at sirius.infonex.com Sat Jul 7 16:19:12 2001 From: "Stock Survey " at sirius.infonex.com ("Stock Survey " at sirius.infonex.com) Date: 08 Jul 2001 00:19:12 +0100 Subject: Internet Stock Survey Message-ID: Dear Sir/Madam, Please allow me to introduce my firm, Internet Stock Surveys. We are undertaking a survey for a syndicate of major financial institutions to determine what their customers want of them. If you could take 3 minutes of your time to complete the survey, not only would we be grateful but you will be entered into a prize draw to win one of five $10,000 online trading accounts at the online broker of your choice. Confidentiality statement: This survey is completely confidential. Your details will not be released to the participating financial institutions or anyone else. If you have any questions, please email us on info at internetstocksurvey.freeserve.co.uk Please click the following link to enter the 3 minute survey: http://www.internetstocksurvey.freeserve.co.uk Nigel Forde, President Internet Stock Surveys From "Stock Survey " at ssz.com Sat Jul 7 16:19:13 2001 From: "Stock Survey " at ssz.com ("Stock Survey " at ssz.com) Date: 08 Jul 2001 00:19:13 +0100 Subject: Internet Stock Survey Message-ID: Dear Sir/Madam, Please allow me to introduce my firm, Internet Stock Surveys. We are undertaking a survey for a syndicate of major financial institutions to determine what their customers want of them. If you could take 3 minutes of your time to complete the survey, not only would we be grateful but you will be entered into a prize draw to win one of five $10,000 online trading accounts at the online broker of your choice. Confidentiality statement: This survey is completely confidential. Your details will not be released to the participating financial institutions or anyone else. If you have any questions, please email us on info at internetstocksurvey.freeserve.co.uk Please click the following link to enter the 3 minute survey: http://www.internetstocksurvey.freeserve.co.uk Nigel Forde, President Internet Stock Surveys From "Stock Survey " at ecotone.toad.com Sat Jul 7 16:19:14 2001 From: "Stock Survey " at ecotone.toad.com ("Stock Survey " at ecotone.toad.com) Date: 08 Jul 2001 00:19:14 +0100 Subject: Internet Stock Survey Message-ID: Dear Sir/Madam, Please allow me to introduce my firm, Internet Stock Surveys. We are undertaking a survey for a syndicate of major financial institutions to determine what their customers want of them. If you could take 3 minutes of your time to complete the survey, not only would we be grateful but you will be entered into a prize draw to win one of five $10,000 online trading accounts at the online broker of your choice. Confidentiality statement: This survey is completely confidential. Your details will not be released to the participating financial institutions or anyone else. If you have any questions, please email us on info at internetstocksurvey.freeserve.co.uk Please click the following link to enter the 3 minute survey: http://www.internetstocksurvey.freeserve.co.uk Nigel Forde, President Internet Stock Surveys From "Stock Survey " at ecotone.toad.com Sat Jul 7 16:19:15 2001 From: "Stock Survey " at ecotone.toad.com ("Stock Survey " at ecotone.toad.com) Date: 08 Jul 2001 00:19:15 +0100 Subject: Internet Stock Survey Message-ID: Dear Sir/Madam, Please allow me to introduce my firm, Internet Stock Surveys. We are undertaking a survey for a syndicate of major financial institutions to determine what their customers want of them. If you could take 3 minutes of your time to complete the survey, not only would we be grateful but you will be entered into a prize draw to win one of five $10,000 online trading accounts at the online broker of your choice. Confidentiality statement: This survey is completely confidential. Your details will not be released to the participating financial institutions or anyone else. If you have any questions, please email us on info at internetstocksurvey.freeserve.co.uk Please click the following link to enter the 3 minute survey: http://www.internetstocksurvey.freeserve.co.uk Nigel Forde, President Internet Stock Surveys From craig at red-bean.com Sun Jul 8 00:07:19 2001 From: craig at red-bean.com (Craig Brozefsky) Date: 08 Jul 2001 02:07:19 -0500 Subject: Meatspace anonymity manual In-Reply-To: <1f3238b915617301adca843878b40548@freemail.cotse.com> References: <1f3238b915617301adca843878b40548@freemail.cotse.com> Message-ID: <87ae2flx08.fsf@piracy.red-bean.com> "Faustine" writes: To make it clear, I'm not a member of the Black Blocs, associated with them in any way, nor do I think the tactic is effective. I was asking Sampo if he was being sarcastic in his association of this tactic with an anarchist ideology of any value. > Frankly, I don't see how any kind of "short-term tactic for possibly > illegal operations on the street in an environment full of police" > could be good for anything more than the symbolic. What did these > "illegal operations" really accomplish apart from getting out a > statement? Serious question. I'm just not seeing it. Symbolically, not much good except for recruiting young males with visions of being the storm-troopers of revolution or something. I had an off-list discussion with someone about wether these actions were purely symbolic or not, my position is that they are not. My argument is based on what these people are writing in their calls-to-arms or whatever you call them. They are actually trying to develop tactics for these situations, not present an image to others. I can respect the desire to develop tactics for operating in situations like that (breaking barricades, evacuating downed marchers etc...), if only because I imagine that such tactics will be neccesarry to provide sufficient symbolic victories. A WTO protest that has people in turtle suits running around outside the fenced off area is one thing, a WTO protest that results in the storming and/or burning down of the hotel the conference was being held is another. Oops, I just put myself on some Fed list. -- Craig Brozefsky http://www.red-bean.com/~craig "Indifference is the dead weight of history." -- Antonio Gramsci From George at Orwellian.Org Sun Jul 8 00:32:55 2001 From: George at Orwellian.Org (George at Orwellian.Org) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 03:32:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Condit cracks Message-ID: <200107080732.DAA14133@www2.aa.psiweb.com> Heh-heh-heh. Condit has admitted to fucking Levy again and again to the DC police and the FBI. But that she was missing taking only her keys makes it seem like someone in her building killed her. From newregistry at email.com Sun Jul 8 06:51:13 2001 From: newregistry at email.com (NewRegistryDomains.net) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 06:51:13 -0700 Subject: .BIZ .INFO domain extensions Message-ID: <200107081351.GAA23249@ecotone.toad.com> Attention: Internet Domain Registrant The new top level domain names with extensions .BIZ, .INFO, .PRO, and .NAME have just been approved by global internet authorities and will be released soon, but don't wait until then to register. These domains are available NOW for pre-registration at: http://www.NewRegistryDomains.net on a first come, first serve basis. "While .com names hold the most prestige, the next frontier is the new suffixes -.info, .biz, and .pro -likely to become available later this year..." -BUSINESSWEEK MAGAZINE, April 16, 2001. 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We respect all removal requests. ####################################################################### From lyris at listserv.winamp.com Sun Jul 8 06:24:43 2001 From: lyris at listserv.winamp.com (Lyris ListManager) Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 09:24:43 -0400 Subject: Your membership on announce has been put on hold Message-ID: This email message is to notify you that your membership to announce has been put on "hold". This means that you will not receive mail from 'announce'. Your subscription has been held because at least 2 recent messages have been either bounced by your email system, or could not be delivered at all. Your membership can be restored to "normal", by sending the command "unhold" to lyris at listserv.winamp.com Note that if your email address continues to reject mail your subscription will once again be "held". You may want to contact the people responsible for your electronic mail to determine why your email address has been having trouble. ---For your information, a non-delivery report is included below: From enenkio at webtv.net Sun Jul 8 12:51:16 2001 From: enenkio at webtv.net (Robert Moore) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 09:51:16 -1000 (HST) Subject: Thair back !!! SuperJap Sen.Inouye (one armed bandit) and SPOOKs Message-ID: <40-3B48B9B4-504@storefull-614.iap.bryant.webtv.net> "AL-GATE" By Charles P. Reyes Jr. SAIPAN, Northern Mariana Islands (August 18, 1999 Saipan Tribune)---John Del Rosario called it "The Pinto Boys Plumbers Unit." Bruce Lloyd called it "Al-Gate." We could also call it "North-Gate." But whatever it is called, it is clearly one of the biggest scandals to hit Washington since the Monica Lewinsky affair. Such a scandal merits much more mainland American media publicity than it is currently receiving--and not just from the Wall Street Journal, the Washington Times and the Washington Post, but from the Reader's Digest, Inside Edition and 20/20 as well. Most especially from 20/20, since it was celebrated for its award-winning CNMI sweatshop/forced prostitution expos矇. After all, wouldn't 20/20 like to know how they served as willing dupes to David North, Global Exchange and other co-conspirators bent on discrediting the CNMI and its free market Republican allies? ABC's 20/20 should really produce this investigative story. ABC's Brian Ross owes it to professional, fair-minded, ethical journalism. Here is how such a show might go. Connie Chung: Good evening, America. And welcome to 20/20. A few months ago, we produced a special report called "The Shame of Saipan," detailing false charges of sweatshops and prostitution on "American soil." Well, today we would like to set the record straight and apologize for serving as the willing dupes of Mr. David North, formerly of the U.S. Interior Department, who flagrantly violated the Hatch Act in a shameless attempt to discredit Saipan and its Republican allies. Charles Gibson: That's right, Connie. There is compelling and convincing evidence to suggest that the U.S. Department of Interior, Office of Insular Affairs, under the auspices of Secretary Bruce Babbitt, former Director Allen Stayman and David North, waged a vicious campaign of political destruction against a tiny set of islands its office was specifically created to nurture, support and protect. Our reporter Brian Ross has more . . . Brian? Brian Ross: That's absolutely right, Charles. The U.S. Office of Insular Affairs clearly violated the Hatch Act through the direct actions Mr. North and possibly even Mr. Stayman. To this day, however, Mr. North still refuses to comment on the matter, as this video clip clearly shows. (Episode now switches to an ominous camera shot of Mr. North's House. Mr. North leaves his house and Brian Ross peppers him with questions.) Brian Ross: Mr. North, did you really violate the Hatch Act, and were you really out to destroy Tom Delay? Mr. North: (Covering his head and waving Mr. Ross away): No comment. No comment. I have no comment at this time. Please go away. Brian Ross: Which was why we sent an undercover Republican posing as a Democrat from the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee to speak to Mr. North prior to the scandal. It is all here on tape, and it's worse than the undercover buyer speaking to garment magnate Willie Tan. (Move to undercover film clip.) Undercover Republican (posing as a Democratic labor union supporter): Mr. North, what are we going to do about the CNMI? Mr. North: Don't worry, George Miller will never let them go. He will kill them. I am working on getting more Democrats to help George kill the CNMI and their evil Republican friends right now. Yes, this story ought to be produced; unfortunately, it will never happen--nothing even close. STAYMAN THE SCOUNDREL By Benhur C. Saladores SAIPAN, Northern Mariana Islands (August 19, 1999 Saipan Tribune)---We have a new name for Mr. Allen Stayman. From now on, Mr. Stayman will be known as "Stayman the scoundrel" in the Northern Marianas. This is not mere name-calling, since a scoundrel is officially defined as "a mean, worthless fellow; a rascal; a villain; a man without honor or virtue." Such a description fits Mr. Stayman's character perfectly. Consider the memo he wrote to Matt Angle, a former executive director of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee (DCCC), suggesting that U.S. Democrats "repudiate" former Governor Froilan C. Tenorio. "Largely out of sight, there is a nominal Democrat, a Governor running for reelection, who scorns our President, who is in Washington this week playing footsie with the Republican House leadership, and who should be repudiated -- in writing -- by the Nation's Democrats," wrote Stayman the Scoundrel in an October 6, 1997 memo, according to Roll Call. According to the Saipan Tribune, "Stayman further suggested that the Democratic National Committee 'should repudiate these scoundrels.'" Exactly who are 'these scoundrels' Mr. Stayman refers to? Froilan Tenorio, of course--but not only the former governor: all of the indigenous people as well. That is, all of the indigenous people who refuse to be subjected to Mr. Scoundrel's program of federalization; who refuse to be deprived of their local self-government and economic self-sufficiency; who refuse to tolerate the lies Mr. Stayman, Mr. North and their labor union cronies tell about our home islands. Mr. Stayman is a scoundrel because he calls people who disagree with his politics "scoundrels," because his radical leftist ideology clouds his objectivity and drives him to violate federal laws (the Hatch Act) with impunity. Stayman is a bureaucratic federal bully who was out to destroy the CNMI's reputation and anybody who defends it. Mr. Scoundrel was out to destroy our garment industry and ravage our economy--just to serve his politics. He knew about David North's vicious campaign to unseat U.S. House Republicans all along--and yet he did absolutely nothing about it, probably because he was deeply involved in the anti-CNMI crusade himself. Mr. Stayman is a scoundrel--"a mean, worthless fellow; a rascal; a villain; a man without honor or virtue." That much is a fact = www.enenkio.org - Robert Moore, Minister Plenipotentiary, Kingdom of EnenKio Foreign Trade Mission DO-MO-CO Manager, Remios Hermios Eleemosynary Trust, Majuro, Marshall Islands http://www.enenkio.org From alphabeta121 at hotmail.com Sun Jul 8 10:31:34 2001 From: alphabeta121 at hotmail.com (Brent) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 10:31:34 -0700 Subject: Who Said This? References: <05eb01c107f0$af6594a0$6cc1fea9@computer> Message-ID: voltaire ----- Original Message ----- From: Don White To: cypherpunks at toad.com Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 1:58 PM Subject: CDR: Who Said This? Who said, "I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death . . . " Thanks, Don White -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1196 bytes Desc: not available URL: From declan at well.com Sun Jul 8 08:47:24 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 11:47:24 -0400 Subject: Meatspace anonymity manual In-Reply-To: <1f3238b915617301adca843878b40548@freemail.cotse.com>; from a3495@cotse.com on Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 04:52:36PM -0400 References: <1f3238b915617301adca843878b40548@freemail.cotse.com> Message-ID: <20010708114724.A2140@cluebot.com> On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 04:52:36PM -0400, Faustine wrote: > Making a few gestures pantomiming paramilitary operations is just plain > suicidal. The bottom line is that in a protest-type situation, you're > relying on the power of negative PR to keep the police from mowing you down > any old time they feel like it. It doesn't matter what color you wear or > how tight you march, you're still as vulnerable as anyone else if you don't > have some serious, serious gear and training. And is that really the > direction you're prepared to go? Think about it. Perhaps some Black Block types and other Seattlish protesters do have such gear and training, but the ones I've run across (http://www.mccullagh.org/theme/2001-bush-inauguration-highlights.html) do not. Besides, the police will always have more resources and will probably be able to stop you from legally possessing the cooler gear you really need (http://www.mccullagh.org/theme/dem-protests-00.html). -Declan From declan at well.com Sun Jul 8 08:53:39 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 11:53:39 -0400 Subject: Condit cracks In-Reply-To: <200107080732.DAA14133@www2.aa.psiweb.com>; from George@Orwellian.Org on Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 03:32:55AM -0400 References: <200107080732.DAA14133@www2.aa.psiweb.com> Message-ID: <20010708115339.C2140@cluebot.com> The sooner this is over with the better. There's been a camera truck parked a few doors down from my place in Adams Morgan for the last week. It has a telescoping roof-mounted camera that seems to be able to stretch up to about 60 feet, all the better to get a photo of Condit as he's fondling the next intern in his Adams Morgan pad. -Declan On Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 03:32:55AM -0400, George at Orwellian.Org wrote: > Heh-heh-heh. Condit has admitted to fucking Levy again > and again to the DC police and the FBI. > > But that she was missing taking only her keys > makes it seem like someone in her building > killed her. From jya at pipeline.com Sun Jul 8 12:30:37 2001 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 12:30:37 -0700 Subject: Condit cracks In-Reply-To: <20010708115339.C2140@cluebot.com> References: <200107080732.DAA14133@www2.aa.psiweb.com> <200107080732.DAA14133@www2.aa.psiweb.com> Message-ID: <200107081631.MAA04453@johnson.mail.mindspring.net> So, Declan, what's the latest Beltway buzz about Levy, as with Lewinsky, working for Mossad, that is, FRU, to suck secrets from Condit and Clinton, if not directly then by extortion when the photos and recordings and confessions are bared to the stiffs. Get the license plate of that surveillance truck. Get the biometrics of its operators. Or spot the ice cream van snarfing the mucker's emissions. From Ramm85 at hotmail.com Sun Jul 8 11:54:06 2001 From: Ramm85 at hotmail.com (Ramm85 at hotmail.com) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 13:54:06 -0500 Subject: Message-ID: <200107081854.f68Is6E07480@ak47.algebra.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 313 bytes Desc: not available URL: From declan at well.com Sun Jul 8 11:08:26 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 14:08:26 -0400 Subject: Condit cracks In-Reply-To: <200107081631.MAA04453@johnson.mail.mindspring.net>; from jya@pipeline.com on Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 12:30:37PM -0700 References: <200107080732.DAA14133@www2.aa.psiweb.com> <200107080732.DAA14133@www2.aa.psiweb.com> <20010708115339.C2140@cluebot.com> <200107081631.MAA04453@johnson.mail.mindspring.net> Message-ID: <20010708140826.A1123@cluebot.com> Okay, okay. I haven't been out yet today but will take my digital camera and see if I can photonab that blasted van. -Declan On Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 12:30:37PM -0700, John Young wrote: > So, Declan, what's the latest Beltway buzz about Levy, as with > Lewinsky, working for Mossad, that is, FRU, to suck secrets from > Condit and Clinton, if not directly then by extortion when the photos > and recordings and confessions are bared to the stiffs. > > Get the license plate of that surveillance truck. Get the biometrics > of its operators. Or spot the ice cream van snarfing the mucker's > emissions. From dlw at cas-com.net Sun Jul 8 13:58:04 2001 From: dlw at cas-com.net (Don White) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 16:58:04 -0400 Subject: Who Said This? Message-ID: <05eb01c107f0$af6594a0$6cc1fea9@computer> Who said, "I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death . . . " Thanks, Don White -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 444 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Musthaveinfo at angelfire.com Sun Jul 8 17:13:34 2001 From: Musthaveinfo at angelfire.com (Musthaveinfo at angelfire.com) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 17:13:34 Subject: Great business opportunity Message-ID: <267.425247.848557@angelfire.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 8287 bytes Desc: not available URL: From john at starta.org Sun Jul 8 19:58:00 2001 From: john at starta.org (John Starta) Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 19:58:00 -0700 Subject: Who Said This? In-Reply-To: <05eb01c107f0$af6594a0$6cc1fea9@computer> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010708195639.039744f0@popcorn> The quote "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" is widely attributed to Voltaire, but cannot be found in his writings. The phrase was invented by a later author as an epitome of his attitude. It appeared in The Friends of Voltaire (1906), written by Evelyn Beatrice Hall under the pseudonym S[tephen] G. Tallentyre. At 04:58 PM 7/8/01 -0400, Don White wrote: >Who said, "I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death . >. . " >Thanks, Don White From declan at well.com Sun Jul 8 16:58:18 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 19:58:18 -0400 Subject: Condit cracks In-Reply-To: <20010708140826.A1123@cluebot.com>; from declan@well.com on Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 02:08:26PM -0400 References: <200107080732.DAA14133@www2.aa.psiweb.com> <200107080732.DAA14133@www2.aa.psiweb.com> <20010708115339.C2140@cluebot.com> <200107081631.MAA04453@johnson.mail.mindspring.net> <20010708140826.A1123@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <20010708195818.A5318@cluebot.com> The truck: http://www.mccullagh.org/image/950-23/gary-condit-chandra-levy-2.html The apartment and media stakeout: http://www.mccullagh.org/theme/gary-condit-stakeout-july01.html The media stakeout is both pathetic and hysterical: Condit has not been spotted within miles of his apartment in the last few weeks but they're outside anyway. I chatted with a New York Post photog who was philosophical when challenged by some passers-by -- he was getting paid by the hour, he said, and didn't mind the wait. Other residents of the apartment building are starting to take offense; around noon today one started screaming at and physically threatened some of the reporters, who are now clustered in clumps for safety. -Declan On Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 02:08:26PM -0400, Declan McCullagh wrote: > Okay, okay. I haven't been out yet today but will take my digital camera > and see if I can photonab that blasted van. > > -Declan > > > On Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 12:30:37PM -0700, John Young wrote: > > So, Declan, what's the latest Beltway buzz about Levy, as with > > Lewinsky, working for Mossad, that is, FRU, to suck secrets from > > Condit and Clinton, if not directly then by extortion when the photos > > and recordings and confessions are bared to the stiffs. > > > > Get the license plate of that surveillance truck. Get the biometrics > > of its operators. Or spot the ice cream van snarfing the mucker's > > emissions. From YOUTALK at in-box.net Sun Jul 8 20:11:55 2001 From: YOUTALK at in-box.net (YOUTALK at in-box.net) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 20:11:55 Subject: UNLIMITED LONG DISTANCE! 100% Fiber Optic Network & Immediate Activation!! Message-ID: <448.807071.494164@www.inofspacedeliver.com> This is NOT VOIP (Voice Over Internet Protocol) You Can Now Enjoy Unlimited Calling From A 100% Fiber Optic Network At A Flat Monthly Rate! * Call Anywhere In The USA! * 24 Hours 7 Days A Week! * Unlimited Use For 30 Days! How Does It Work? Just Contact Our 24 Hour Prepaid Hotline And For $79.95, Tax Included, We Will Issue You Your Access & PIN# Immediately! You Will Then Set Up Your Account By Dialing Your Access & PIN# Into The Phone You Have Selected And Begin Enjoying One Month Of UNLIMITED LONG DISTANCE! To Continue Service, Simply Call Our 24 Hour Hotline And Purchase A New PIN. 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( If you do not wish to receive further notices, please follow the easyremoval instructions .) Click here to be removed ========================================================= From ann_onomys at lineone.net Sun Jul 8 20:24:49 2001 From: ann_onomys at lineone.net (B.K. DeLongue) Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 22:24:49 -0500 Subject: Def Con/Black Hat: Change of Venue Message-ID: Hi all - My name is B.K. DeLongue. Many of you may know me as Troy McClure from Infomercials such as "Might Makes Truth" and "Re-education Is Freedom". I am coordinating all press activities for Black Hat and DefCon and just wanted to drop everyone a cautionary note. If you know of other people not on this list attending the shows or other lists where this email may be relevant, please pass it on. As you may know, Defcon has traditionally been held in Las Vegas, a city known for its respect for total anonymity and utter lack of surveillance cameras. The remote locations chosen in the past have assured participants that there was absolutely no way that recording devices, video cameras or infrared monitoring devices could ever be installed in advance by three-letter agencies. My friends, we've made a few changes this year so that we r e a l l y know we'll be secure. As believers in freedom and open expression, Defcon will be shifting venue from Las Vegas to Pyongyang, effective immediately. By moving to North Korea, we will be assured that only Approved Journalists will be writing about Defcon and that their reports will be acceptable under the guidelines put forward in the XXVII Party Congress. Our consultants from the Church簧 of穢 Scientology have advised us that not only can we control the copyright of any and all news reports generated at Defcon, but we can charge them for the privilege of doing their job, too. Accordingly, ALL journalists will be charged $50 to attend Defcon. Feel free to talk to any and all Approved Journalists. Their words and images will be appropriately edited as-needed so as to ensure 100% compliance with Party directives. See you at the parade, Troy (B.K.) This year, as you may know, we are charging EVERYONE $50 to get into Def Con. This includes reporters, journalists, television producers etc. As such, many reporters have mentioned that they will be registering for the show as regular attendees. Because I do a rigorous review of the credentials for journalists applying for Def Con press passes, I HIGHLY CAUTION you NOT to speak with anyone claiming to be a journalist that is without a Def Con press badge. Those whom I will approve for press passes will be from grassroots or mainstream media that either cover computer security on a regular basis or report on general news for a very large media outlet. It's my job to weed out the frauds, charlatans, and freeloaders. While I CANNOT GUARANTEE that these "approved" reporters will write a favourable article if you choose to speak with them, I can say that they are relatively well-known, legitimate journalists and will have to suffer the ridicule and examination by their peers and the public if they write a bad article (and may show up in Attrition.org Errata - http://www.attrition.org/errata). We have posted a set of guidelines for "approved" press to the Def Con Web site at: http://www.defcon.org/html/defcon-9-media-sponsors.html Under the heading of "Def Con Registered Press Guidlines". As you can see, broadcast journalists will only be allowed free reign (ie film/record anywhere) in the public areas (the Capture the Flag areas, Vendor areas, and DJ / Rave rooms). If you don't want to be filmed, keep an eye out for the cameras and don't be in any of those rooms when filming might be going on. Speaker presentations, however, are a different ballgame. Anyone with a camera may ONLY film the speakers. Any quick shots of the crowd or filming while pretending the camera is off will result in the Goons taking action and removing the offender from the room. So like a favorite professor of mine says "CONSTANT VIGILANCE!" Remember that while there is a computer security conference going on, Federal law enforcement has been known to be in attendance (Spot the Fed!) as well as reporters (both "approved" and rogue) who have no qualms in printing any information you happen to give them - in some cases regardless if you say "background only" or not. So if you choose to talk to a reporter, make sure they're Def Con approved and make sure you don't say ANYTHING you wouldn't want to see in the media. It could result in your "dox" being dropped to the world or worse yet an raid and arrest by said attending law enforcement From listas at denio.eti.br Sun Jul 8 19:18:26 2001 From: listas at denio.eti.br (Denio Robson) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 23:18:26 -0300 Subject: unsubscribe Message-ID: <002f01c1081d$716b8470$708cccc8@delta> unsubscribe From listas at denio.eti.br Sun Jul 8 19:46:19 2001 From: listas at denio.eti.br (Denio Robson) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 23:46:19 -0300 Subject: Remove Message-ID: <003101c10821$5542aae0$708cccc8@delta> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2484 bytes Desc: not available URL: From listas at denio.eti.br Sun Jul 8 20:07:48 2001 From: listas at denio.eti.br (Denio Robson) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 00:07:48 -0300 Subject: unsubscribe Message-ID: <003801c10824$55525af0$708cccc8@delta> Eu quero sair dessa droga. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2634 bytes Desc: not available URL: From newextcen at email.com Mon Jul 9 04:06:10 2001 From: newextcen at email.com (NewExtensionCentral.com) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 04:06:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: .BIZ .INFO domain extensions Message-ID: <200107091106.EAA27367@sirius.infonex.com> Attention: Internet Domain Registrant The new top level domain names with extensions .BIZ, .INFO, .PRO, and .NAME have just been approved by global internet authorities and will be released soon, but don't wait until then to register. 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Go to http://www.NewExtensionCentral.com now to pre-register. ####################################################################### This message is sent in compliance with the new email bill section 301. Per Section 301, Paragraph (a)(2)(C) of S. 1618 and is not intended for residents in the State of WA, NV, CA & VA. If you have received this mailing in error, or do not wish to receive any further mailings pertaining to this topic, simply send email to: off_list_tld at yahoo.com. We respect all removal requests. ####################################################################### From juicy at melontraffickers.com Mon Jul 9 06:32:06 2001 From: juicy at melontraffickers.com (A. Melon) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 06:32:06 -0700 Subject: Meatspace anonymity manual Message-ID: <9d149bbb193cf7d9dfc6f754189c0aea@melontraffickers.com> Ray Dillinger wrote: On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Sampo Syreeni wrote: >the protection afforded by Black Blocs is quite thin (just indict them under >organized crime or gang laws), > The similar clothing is enough to charge with gang membership and invoke > RICO. Also, the 'black bloc' tactic has 'premeditated' written all over > it. I'd say these kids haven't provided more protection for themselves; > on the contrary, they've raised the stakes. The cops will have to arrest > *more* people in order to deal with the bloc, but the people arrested > when it happens are going to be charged with more serious crimes, like > racketeering, conspiracy, and membership in a corrupt organization, than > if they'd stuck with the simpler tactics. And most of what they might > otherwise have claimed as defenses are going to crumble under that > 'premeditation' thing. That's irrelevant -- the fedz, and even state courts, are already giving the heaviest sentences to protesters of anytime in our history. And you obviousely have never taken part in any street actions. They've got a good idea -- one of the tactics used by cops for quite awhile is to have undercover agents in the crowd who spot the *real* troublemakers, leaders, etc. and then often an "affinity squad" will target that individual. By making it very difficult to differentiate any individuals, that whole cop tactic becomes useless. The other part of the bloc is that by staying together in a tight group, they can grab arrestees from the cops more easily. We used to have groups of two or three who worked together this way, more is better. From bear at sonic.net Mon Jul 9 09:20:32 2001 From: bear at sonic.net (Ray Dillinger) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 09:20:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: TV as an indicator... Message-ID: I turned on a television set last night, for the first time in many months. I was watching videotapes, but I caught fragments of shows while tapes were rewinding, etc. American TV has taken a definite turn for the vicious since I last watched. It's still pablum-and-opiates, but someone has spiked it. We're seeing an increasing focus on elitism, "survival of the fittest", etc -- shows that present the "elimination" of the weak as a virtue, and where game-show hosts masquerading as intellectuals intentionally humiliate contestants. We are seing a separation of moral responsibility from action and being conditioned to accept viciousness in authority figures. We are also being conditioned to accept the idea that some form of pseudo-intellectual "correctness" excuses viciousness. The tone is very similar to "entertainment" or "public education" films that were produced by the propaganda arm of the german National Socialist party in 1936-1938, which I remember from school but which folk in Germany, or those who attend current-day American schools, will not recognize due to censorship. We forget history, believing that this will prevent us from repeating it rather than the other way round.... The progression was reasonably simple, as I recall. First, the people are conditioned to accept "harsh reality", survival of the fittest, etc. Second, the people are conditioned to accept that, these things being inevitable, hurrying them along is a virtue. Third, some class of people are identified as being "inferior" and pseudoscience upholding the claim is advanced. The shows I saw last night were deep into the second stage, and universal public monitoring is now more pervasive here than it was then and there, and our schools are raising a generation of people who think monitoring and draconian weapons laws are normal, and ideas not "politically correct" are being persecuted as vigorously here as they were in Nazi Germany. The parallels continue... The "new media must be controlled" of that era was radio and television -- now it's the internet. Same basic debates going on -- most of the same outcomes happening. I am scared. Bear From amaha at vsnl.net Mon Jul 9 09:14:42 2001 From: amaha at vsnl.net (Fountain Of Inspiration) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 11:14:42 -0500 Subject: Thought-A-Day Message-ID: <200107091614.f69GEfE16955@ak47.algebra.com> Do what you can,with what you have,where you are. --Theodore Roosevelt ===================================================================== Your name has been recommended to receive thoughts of wisdom from Fountain of Joy. These thoughts will be delivered, free of cost, to your desktop,everyday, for an initial evaluation period. We believe that the meaningful insights of these carefully selected thoughts will make your life peaceful,successful & happy in a way you had never imagined before. However, if you desire to unsubscribe, reply to this email with 'remove' in the subject line. Director, Fountain of Inspiration (A Non-religious Organisation) From adam at cypherspace.org Mon Jul 9 09:03:55 2001 From: adam at cypherspace.org (Adam Back) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:03:55 -0400 Subject: Declan misses the mark on ecash In-Reply-To: ; from Ian Goldberg on Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 10:15:04AM -0400 References: <20010614190021.32578.qmail@nym.alias.net> <20010705144907.A7219@economists.cryptohill.net> <20010705152809.A31598@cluebot.com> <20010705161012.A8485@economists.cryptohill.net> Message-ID: <20010709120355.A3364@economists.cryptohill.net> On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 10:15:04AM -0400, Ian Goldberg wrote: > Adam Back wrote: > >Perhaps the berkeley lawyers opinion could be tracked down? > > I personally don't remember the Berkeley lawyers ever getting involved. > [Thank God. Dealing with that office is just Not Fun.] > > I think the OP of this factoid was confusing it with the position of > Stanford's lawyers regarding SRP. So I asked Bob Hettinga as I thought I saw the comment on one of his lists, and with Ben Laurie who apparently made one of the comments and it appears there was confusion surrounding the comment by either Ben or Bob. Which doesn't alter my opinion about Declan's comments about Wagner's blinding method, but I thought I'd track it down and set the record straight on the mythical berkeley law prof. Adam From tcmay at got.net Mon Jul 9 12:10:12 2001 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:10:12 -0700 Subject: You ARE the weakest link. Good-bye! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 9:20 AM -0700 7/9/01, Ray Dillinger wrote: >I turned on a television set last night, for the first time in many >months. I was watching videotapes, but I caught fragments of shows >while tapes were rewinding, etc. > >American TV has taken a definite turn for the vicious since I last >watched. It's still pablum-and-opiates, but someone has spiked it. > "Let's kick it up a notch!" >We're seeing an increasing focus on elitism, "survival of the fittest", >etc -- shows that present the "elimination" of the weak as a virtue, >and where game-show hosts masquerading as intellectuals intentionally >humiliate contestants. Yes, quite a refreshing trend. >We are seing a separation of moral responsibility >from action and being conditioned to accept viciousness in authority >figures. That British woman who says "You ARE the weakest link. Good-bye!" is not an authority figure by any sense of being a state functionary. People compete in the show, as in all of the other shows you are presumably catching snippets of, on a voluntary basis. (Note: I have never seen an episode of "Survivor," "Boot Camp," or "Weakest Link." I did watch the first episode of "Big Brother" last summer, figuring it might be germane to my interests in privacy and surveillance, but it was too boring to watch for a second hour.) >The tone is very similar to "entertainment" or "public education" >films that were produced by the propaganda arm of the german National >Socialist party in 1936-1938, which I remember from school but >which folk in Germany, or those who attend current-day American >schools, will not recognize due to censorship. We forget history, >believing that this will prevent us from repeating it rather than >the other way round.... Calling these shows comparable to what the Nazis did is ludicrous. > >The progression was reasonably simple, as I recall. > >First, the people are conditioned to accept "harsh reality", survival > of the fittest, etc. Teaching people this fact might do wonders for getting ten million leeches off the welfare rolls and state subsidy scams, so I applaud it. >Third, some class of people are identified as being "inferior" and > pseudoscience upholding the claim is advanced. The dull are just that, dull. Not pseudoscience, but fact. > >I am scared. > You ARE the weakest link. Good-bye! --Tim May -- Timothy C. May tcmay at got.net Corralitos, California Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns From vinayan_m at visualsoft-tech.com Mon Jul 9 00:05:05 2001 From: vinayan_m at visualsoft-tech.com (Vinay Menon) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:35:05 +0530 Subject: Meatspace anonymity manual In-Reply-To: <87ae2flx08.fsf@piracy.red-bean.com> Message-ID: Hi Can u tell me how I can unsubscribe from this mailing list ? Regards, Vinayan Menon System Analyst vinayan_m at visualsoft-tech.com Ph : 3412266 Ext: 2021 VisualSoft Technologies www.visualsoft-tech.com www.visualmart.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-cypherpunks at minder.net [mailto:owner-cypherpunks at minder.net]On Behalf Of Craig Brozefsky Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 12:37 PM To: Faustine Cc: cypherpunks at lne.com Subject: Re: Meatspace anonymity manual "Faustine" writes: To make it clear, I'm not a member of the Black Blocs, associated with them in any way, nor do I think the tactic is effective. I was asking Sampo if he was being sarcastic in his association of this tactic with an anarchist ideology of any value. > Frankly, I don't see how any kind of "short-term tactic for possibly > illegal operations on the street in an environment full of police" > could be good for anything more than the symbolic. What did these > "illegal operations" really accomplish apart from getting out a > statement? Serious question. I'm just not seeing it. Symbolically, not much good except for recruiting young males with visions of being the storm-troopers of revolution or something. I had an off-list discussion with someone about wether these actions were purely symbolic or not, my position is that they are not. My argument is based on what these people are writing in their calls-to-arms or whatever you call them. They are actually trying to develop tactics for these situations, not present an image to others. I can respect the desire to develop tactics for operating in situations like that (breaking barricades, evacuating downed marchers etc...), if only because I imagine that such tactics will be neccesarry to provide sufficient symbolic victories. A WTO protest that has people in turtle suits running around outside the fenced off area is one thing, a WTO protest that results in the storming and/or burning down of the hotel the conference was being held is another. Oops, I just put myself on some Fed list. -- Craig Brozefsky http://www.red-bean.com/~craig "Indifference is the dead weight of history." -- Antonio Gramsci From sylsi at hotbot.com Mon Jul 9 13:03:22 2001 From: sylsi at hotbot.com (sylsi at hotbot.com) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 13:03:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Low On Printer Ink? pjynn Message-ID: <200107092003.NAA18105@toad.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 6705 bytes Desc: not available URL: From declan at well.com Mon Jul 9 10:40:12 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 13:40:12 -0400 Subject: FC: U.N. security investigating irate email from U.S. gun owners Message-ID: Summary: Fewer than 100 angry email messages from American gun owners led U.N. conference organizers to turn over the correspondence to U.N. internal security forces. The U.N. gun-summit began today, and -- see below -- includes proposals for a global gun database, tracking of firearms, complaints about encryption and so on. What's interesting is that even this limited outcry was enough to prompt U.N. officials to make the appropriate "we're not trying to limit private ownership of guns," apparently backtracking from previous positions. Statement on U.N. meeting from Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms: http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/0601-139.html To see what kind of reaction the U.N. conference has provoked: http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3ae8ec916ace.htm http://www.un.org/News/briefings/docs/2001/SmallArmsConfBrf.doc.htm >He said he had seen some of the nearly 100 letters and e-mails that had >been sent by gun-ownership advocates. They were mainly irate and "strongly >worded" protests, and allegations that the United Nations wanted to take >guns away from civilians in conflict with the constitutional rights of >United States citizens. While he would not characterize any of the letters >as explicitly threatening, they had been turned over to United Nations >security authorities. Mr. Honwana added that it was not for his Department >to determine whether the correspondence was threatening. It was up to the >Organization's security staff to make that determination. http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2001/dc2782.doc.htm >A small arms and light weapons register could be established, adds the >report, at the national level to assist information-gathering and >information-sharing. One option