G3s and HK-91s and FALs

[Tim May]

I got curious about Choate's latest mention of the "G3" issue, so I 
did some searching of the archives. Then it all came back, how Choate 
was claiming the "G3" was the same as the HK-93 rather than the 
HK-91, and how it is the preferred sniper weapon.

(In fact, HK sells a version of the HK-91, or semi-auto-only G3, as 
the "PSG-1." Definitely a .308 Winchester (7.62x54 NATO), definitely 
NOT a .223 Remington.)

Here's the original response I wrote. It covers much the same ground 
I just wrote about in my post on this topic just before this one.

Of course, what Choate says may be true in Choate Prime, even if not 
true in _our_ universe.


--begin post from archives--


To: cypherpunks at ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
* Subject: Re: Best Cypherpunk long gun (fwd)
* From: Tim May <tcmay at got.net>
* Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 09:46:25 -0700
* In-Reply-To: <199712231551.JAA25031 at einstein.ssz.com>
* Sender: owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM

------------------------------------------------------------------------



At 8:51 AM -0700 12/23/97, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>
>>  Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 01:08:04 -0700
>>  From: Tim May <tcmay at got.net>
>>  Subject: Re: Best Cypherpunk long gun (fwd)
>
>>   I can't agree that the HK 91 (the .308 version) is a popular sniper
>>  weapon.
>
>Military and police snipers the world over differ strongly with you...
>Beside, it's the 93/G3 not the 91 (thought they do share a lot of commen base
>pieces) that is the sniper rifle. I believe you will also find that the .308
>is the base caliber for all versions. Your wording above would indicate the
>91 was .308 while the 93 was a different caliber, this is incorrect. Visit
>the H&K home page...

Not much point in arguing with Jim Choate on this one. The G3 is the
orginal name (Gewehr). The G3KA4 is one of the .308 models currentlt being
sold.

For the past couple of decades the naming system has also included "HK -9x"
names, with this breakdown by caliber:

HK-91, the .308 model, aka the G3-xx models. Also, the variants like the
SAR-9 from Springfield, the Argentine and Greek versions, etc.

HK-93, the .223 model, much less common than the HK-91.

HK-94, 9mm model (which becomes the MP-5 and all of its variants and the
SP-89 as changes are made to the barrel length, stock configuration, etc.

(I know these things quite well, having almost bought an HK-91 back before
they came under new restrictions, and then having bought an SP-89.)

But if Jim doesn't believe me, consider this quote from the rec.guns FAQ:

"The HK series of weapons commonly avaiable in the US consists of the HK-91
(7.62 Nato) HK-93 (5.56 Nato) and HK-94 (9mm Nato). All
these rifles share common features, namely, the locking system consists of
a roller locked inertial bolt, which operates as a delayed direct blow
back action."

>
>>  For sniper work, a bolt-action is by far the most popular piece.
>
>Really? Watch a few more of those silly police shows on at night. Pay
>particular attention to the long-term hostage episodes. I generaly see the
>break-in team carrying MP-5 or shortie M-16's. I have yet to see the backup
>or sniper team using a bolt-action. Learning base tactics is about the only
>thing these shows are good for.

Getting one's knowledge from, as you say, silly police shows, is not such a
good idea. For one thing, _entry teams_ are NOT snipers!

Go to some actual sniping sources. Or try some of the Web pages, such as
http://www.prostar.com/web/sniper/ or http://sniper-store.com/ for
insights. Also, as I mentioned John Plaster's excellent 1993 book, "The
Ultimate Sniper." He discusses semiautomatics and their disadvantages in
price and simplicity compared to bolt-actions.

Again, entry team work is limited to close range. Sniping is quite
different, with ranges from a hundred yards on up to a thousand yards,
sometimes even more. The average police sniper takes his shot at a hundred
yards or less (less is always better). But he'll want the most accurate
piece, not a semi-auto.

Lon Horiuchi, the sniper at Ruby Ridge, used a bolt-action to take his shot.



>Remember, we're counter-sniping at this point...
>

This'll be my last response to Jim on this issue. It appears he's talking
about a completely different thing than what I am calling, and what is
commonly called by others, sniping.

--Tim May

The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

--end post from archives--
-- 
Timothy C. May         tcmay at got.net        Corralitos, California
Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon
Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go
Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns