Speech May Not Be Free, but It's Refundable

[Sunder]

On Sun, 9 Dec 2001, Jim Choate wrote:

> On Mon, 3 Dec 2001, Sunder wrote:
> 
> > Ok, then I propose to surround your property from any vantage point on
> > public land, and setup gigantic speakers from which I would recite very
> > loud speeches in your direction at 3:00am.
> 
> No public land in the area that isn't managed by the city, you'll need to
> get permission from the public to use it. We also have a amplified music
> ordinance so you'd have to shutdown between midnite and 6am anyway.

But it's free speech, not music, regardless of amplification, so how does
the ordinance apply?
 
> > As I would be on public land and excercising my freedom of speech, you
> > couldn't do anything as that would be censorship.
> 
> Not at all, you're still annoying the community at large.

But in your world, there's nothing anyone can do to stop me, because if
they were to do so, they'd violate my freedom of speech.  If the
constitution applies to all Americans, then only a Russian or other
non-American could tell me to shut the fuck up. 

Acording to your statement two sentences down from this one, you can't do
shit to stop me as you're an American and the Constitution applies to all
Americans.

> > Or are you ready to submit that "Congress shall make no law ... freedom of 
> > expression" only applies to Congress?
> 
> No, the Constitution applies to all Americans.

But the 1st ammendment doesn't say "No American shall make no laws
limiting the freedom of the press, etc." It says "Congress shall make no
law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free
exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or
the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the
Government for a redress of grievances." 

Hence the distinction.  There in lies your error and lack of
understanding.  

And this is why on private property the property owner decides what is and
isn't allowed.  This is why on public property that belongs to a specific
state or city Congress has nothing to do with it, and the owner may decide
on the rules of the house: "Amendment X The powers not delegated to the
United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are
reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

So now by muttering something about city ordinances about amplified music
and certain hours, you've just admited that entities other than Congress
may pass laws, and that Freedom of speech can be limited by any other
entity, including: the states, cities, and individuals.


And therefore your message below is completely wrong.  Congratulations,
you've just proven yourself wrong: