The Privacy/Untraceability Sweet Spot

[Duncan Frissell]

At 05:28 PM 8/28/01 -0700, Ray Dillinger wrote:

>The focus of the US intel community is shifting, at the current time,
>to "domestic terrorism".  That makes political speech of the kind
>which has in past years been entirely normal on this list orders
>of magnitude more dangerous to the participants than it was at that
>time.  Taking part in this discussion in a style "traditional" for
>this list could be very dangerous.  Remember, one out of every
>fifty Americans is in jail, and if you think you're in the most
>radical two percent of the population, there are implications,
>aren't there?

I'm not involved in the retail pharmaceutical trade like most of those poor 
political prisoners.  I wouldn't worry about discussing drug laws or the 
retail pharmaceutical trade, however.

Do you have any evidence of a greater risk of imprisonment for discussions 
of  the effect of technology in weakening national states?

Is Tom Clancy going to spend much time in stir for machine gunning the US 
Congress at the end of Debt of Honor?

I know that there has been an increase in punishments levied on the 
institutionalized populations of our many local institutions for the 
mentally challenged, but any parent who  turns his children's body and 
brain over to a bureaucracy for training deserves what they get (though the 
children/victims do not).  And since most of these punishments consist of 
removing the child from the institution in question, it's hard to see to 
see them as genuine punishments.  They're actually helpful to the poor tykes.

There hasn't been a statistically significant increase in imprisonment of 
adults (or non-institutionalized children) for thought crime.  You might 
have argued the case in '92 and '93 when the Feds were investing various 
"compounds" of thought criminals around the country but the Fibbies got 
burned so bad that they snatched their hands back.  Note that Weaver, 
Harris, and the Waco 11 were all acquitted of murder in the killing of 
federal agents.  Real slap in the face to Main Justice.

>For Tim:
>Why are you attempting to provoke public discussion about things
>that could get people jailed or worse for discussing them?  It's
>interesting to see you post your "sweet spot" message and then call
>someone *else* an agent provocateur.

What's the "or worse"?

The Ninth Circuit where Jeff would put Tim or whoever on trial has been 
very protective of the First.  Note the Nuremberg Files case.  That Court 
of Appeals  has the most libertarian Appeals Court Judge (Kozinski) and 
there is loads circuit precedent for political speech protection.

And all of the agitation and possible targeting of this list as well as the 
Libertarian Party of Washington would give anyone with half a brain yet 
another defense - selective prosecution.  We have quite a bit of evidence 
of punishment for participating in a public forum.  There's 9th circuit 
precedent for that defense too from back when the Hawaii US attorney 
prosecuted the Hawaii 4 for census resistance in 1970 after census 
resistance was advocated on KTRG radio.  See US v. Watamull.

CJ & JB are partially responsible for their problems.  Unlike JB, for 
example, I'll never volunteer to the commission of a federal felony on the 
witness stand (mail tampering) that the Feds didn't even know 
about.  There's such a thing as a special kind of stupid.

JB plead out in his first case which didn't gain him anything except more 
trouble.  Better not to plead in political cases.  And CJ waived a 
jury.  Most 1A defenses work only on appeal so the jury isn't that 
important but it can help.

Both needed good appeal lawyers.  Most of the rest of the possible targets 
will have good lawyers (or be good enough ones).

I do think that there has been a bit too much cooperation with the Feds by 
members of this list.  Two members have talked to Fibbies who showed up at 
their doors.  They should have told them to get lost (as one always 
should).  Think about it folks.  The more time you spend in the presence of 
peace officers, the more information you give them for free whether by 
word, body language, or opportunities for visual inspection of your 
surroundings.  Don't interact.  You don't have to.

And the several list members who have been subpoenaed could have done a 
little more to resist.

When one receives a subpoena,  the first thing you should do is throw it 
away.  You can always wimp out later if you want but if you ignore the 
initial contact, they may go away.  Make them do a little heavy lifting.

Then if you are free to move, you should arrange to vacation overseas.  If 
you have a job (reporter) that can be performed by Net and telephone, you 
should go to Canada where you can continue to work easily.  If you can't 
move, you should at least wait for a second communication of some sort from 
the government.

If you receive a second contact, you should point out that you will be a 
hostile witness and do nothing but verbally abuse them from the stand.  You 
can prove your facility at this by verbally abusing them over the phone.

If you are on the Right Coast and the court venue is on the Left Coast, you 
should immediately bundle up all your "government issued picture IDs" and 
burn them so you can't fly.

Less easily, you could also try and weight 320 pounds so that carrying you 
will prove difficult for US Marshals.  You might also try to be suffering 
from a potentially fatal disease so that threats from the Feds can be 
placed in the proper perspective.  [Since, for now, we all *do* suffer from 
a potentially fatal disease (life), threats from the Feds should already be 
placed in a proper perspective.]  Lastly, if you develop studious habits, 
you will discover that "prison is no punishment for the literate."

Make *them* oppress you!  Don't do it to yourself.  They can't force you to 
speak.  You have control of your voluntary muscles.  Show a little backbone.

DCF

----
"I brought up blankets, towels, toilet paper, Kleenex, aspirin, a bottle of 
rum and the .38" -- What my grandmother Louise Porter Frissell took to the 
evacuation assembly point at Schofield Barracks, Oahu, Territory of Hawaii, 
on December 7th 1941.