The Privacy/Untraceability Sweet Spot

Nomen Nescio nobody at dizum.com
Tue Aug 28 14:00:17 PDT 2001


On Tuesday, August 28, 2001, at 8:04 AM, Tim May wrote:
> On Monday, August 27, 2001, at 11:20 PM, Nomen Nescio wrote:
> > On Monday, August 27, 2001, at 12:56 PM, Tim May wrote:
> >> On Monday, August 27, 2001, at 12:40 PM, Nomen Nescio wrote:
> >>> "Freedom fighters in communist-controlled regimes."  How much money
> >>> do they have?  More importantly, how much are they willing and able to
> >>> spend on anonymity/privacy/black-market technologies?  These guys 
> >>> aren't
> >>> rolling in dough.
> >>
> >> The IRA and the Real IRA have a lot of money, as the Brits have been
> >> complaining about recently. Osama bin Laden is said to control more 
> >> than
> >> a billion dollars. And so on. I disagree with you assertion that "these
> >> guys aren't rolling in dough."
> >
> > Members of the IRA are not freedom fighters in a communist-controlled
> > country.  bin Laden did fall under that definition when he was fighting
> > to get the Russians out of Afghanistan but that was a long time ago.
> > Now he's opposing American influence in Saudi Arabia.
>
> Your reading comprehension sucks. I gave half a dozen _examples_, one of 
> them "freedom fighters in communist-controlled regimes" and you assume 
> this is the only kind of freedom fighter being talked about. No point in 
> carrying on a conversation with this breathtaking display of literalism.

The reason why "in communist-controlled regimes" is relevant is because
you advanced it as an example of MORALLY acceptable use of technology
(presuming that most readers will oppose communism).

The objection was raised, yes, it is moral, but is it profitable?
There are not many communist-opposed freedom fighters around today,
not much money to be made there.

You came back and mentioned the IRA and bin Laden.  It is true, both of
these are well funded.

But this does not answer the objection.  The point was, can you find
groups that are both profitable to sell to, and morally acceptable?
The latter consideration is what led to the "in communist-controlled
regimes" limitation in the first place.  You can't just throw that part
out without losing the moral acceptability which motivated the example
in the first place.

bin Laden and the IRA have plenty of money, but will many cypherpunks
agree with their politics?  It's hard to believe that anyone thinks that
if the IRA or bin Laden were to succeed in their goals, that they would
put in place a kindler and gentler state.

It remains a challenge to identify groups that are both (A) wealthy, (B)
in need of anonymity technologies, and (C) morally acceptable to support.
Freedom fighters don't fit all that well, in today's world.





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