CDR: Re: would it be so much to ask..

[Jim Choate]

On Thu, 21 Sep 2000, Tiarnan O Corrain wrote:

>    The Solidaros movement was a democratic movement where they
>    wanted to impliment a government that had representation and guaranteed
>    civil rights (I don't know exactly how far along they've come). But at no
>    point was their goal the continued management of speech, work, income,
>    etc. through a central government mechanism.
> 
> That was precisely my point: socialism doesn't necessarily mean centralised
> statism, wage controls or limited speech.

Socialism says that if we let the individual manage resources then some
get right and come get poor. They claim that not only should people have
the opportunity to improve, society has a responsibility to make it
happen. And the mechanism is redistribution fo wealth through a
centralised mechanism. That may be a state like a 'federal' system or it
could be a distributed communal sort of thing. The point is that each
individual works for the collective best interest. The consequence is they
do not get representation (at least equal opportunity isn't guaranteed
with respect to politics). So the statism certainly doesn't have to be
'central' with respect to a single party. They are 'central' in that they
are the only parties (wether it's a central federal system or a
distributed communal mechanism). Since all persons work when and where the
state desires things like wage control are inherent and fundamental tools
of economic management. Since there is not equal opportunity with respect
to political potential it is also clear that 'free' speach in the Western
sense doesn't exist.

I'd say you're pretty much wrong on all counts.


> Well, they might pollute you to death, but they haven't got firing squads. In
> the States. South Americans or Africans might have a different story to tell.
> Consider the depredations of Shell in Nigeria.

And I can sue them or sick the big G on 'em.

The S. Americans are a perfect! example of why unregulated markets, such
as those proposed by some here, don't work. Russia and N. Korea are the
flip side of that extreme.

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