CDR: RE: Close Elections and Causality

[Tim May]

At 9:43 AM -0800 11/9/00, Ernest Hua wrote:
>Thanks Tim.  (First, I genuinely appreciate the
>specificity.  Now we can discuss just where we
>disagree.)
>
>Given your points, one would have to argue that
>the proper election would have to be extremely
>simultaneous (e.g. everyone votes within 1 hour
>or whatever will most likely beat any realistic
>attempt to predict voter results before the vote
>is actually finished).
>
>I can see your point.  However, it ain't gonna
>happen precisely because people have normal life
>concerns that truly are 24x7 and simply cannot
>work around them.  (e.g. kids, certain kinds of
>jobs, etc ...).

"Designing fairer elections" has very little to do with my points, 
about causality, re-dos, and re-votes. I can think of various 
improvements to the election process, such as operating the polls for 
a 15 hour period, nationwide, simultaneously.

Whatever. This is a matter for those involved in designing elections, 
not at all related to this business of whether some particular 
polling site should get a "do-over."

I urge you to get involved in the Election Commission in your state 
and to make your suggestions for future elections.

>
>A reasonable level of flexibility is required.
>"Reasonable" appears to mean opening polls for
>most of the day, but I would hate to have some
>faceless fed tell me what reasonable is.

The voting periods are set by the states, not the Feds. You, 
ironically, seem to be arguing for more of a role for the Feds, not 
less of a role.

>
>Same thing here.  The goal is to give people a
>chance to vote.  Otherwise, national elections
>should have national rules, according to your
>reasoning.  States should not be allowed to set
>up their own mechanisms to vote on national
>elections.

See what I mean? How do you square your "I would hate to have some 
faceless fed tell me what reasonable is" with "states should not be 
allowed to set up their own mechanisms..." point?

I really need to give up on you. You blather, you ramble, you 
contradict yourself, you lack a consistent point of view, you 
probably would have voted for Buchanan and then claimed you wanted a 
do-over.

>
>So on the issue of extending hours:
>
>If each district, county, township, neighborhood
>should decide to open the polls LONGER, I can't
>see a problem with that.  If they close it
>earlier, it's probably not a problem either
>unless someone felt they did not have a chance
>to get to the polls. 

You fail to grasp the essential point: the hours must not be changed 
once they have been established. It is utterly wrong to close the 
polls _early_. Your point "it's probably not a problem either someone 
felt..." is utterly vacuous.

It is also utterly wrong to keep the pollling places open longer. 
Especially when a political calculation is made that more Democrats 
appear to be straggling, as was the calculation in St. Louis on 
Tuesday.

That you don't get this point, about consistent rules, does not 
surprise me at all.


>
>On the issue of re-voting:
>
>The causality and the hinge issues are irrelevant
>if ANY state, county, district, whatever can go
>to a judge and argue (not demand arbitrarily) for
>re-vote.

No, it is not irrelevant. It would give the courts the power to 
determine elections and would likely put an end to our system of 
government.

Perhaps we should adopt your suggestion. Let the lawyers take over 
the election process just as they have taken over most things.




>Lots of places here and abroad have the concept
>of run-off elections for precisely the same
>reasons:
>
>Let's see what the voters really want.
>

We did just this--we had the election.

Do-overs are not allowed.


Fools like you just don't get it.


--Tim May
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