This is why a free society is evil.

Jim Choate ravage at einstein.ssz.com
Sun Dec 17 06:51:57 PST 2000



On Sun, 17 Dec 2000, petro wrote:

> 	"Privilige (sic) of running a business"?
> 
> 	Huh?
> 
> 	Do you have the "Privilege" of being allowed to work?

No, I don't. Nobody keeps you from working either as an employee of
another person or indiependently. If you don't work it's because you're
too damn lazy.

> 	To say running a business is a "privilege" is to say that 
> every action, everything that a person does besides breathing is a 
> privilege.

Actually the right of self-defence is the ultimate and base right on which
all others are rooted. Life, liberty, pursuit of happiness.

> 	Who can bestow that privilege?

Your parents, in particular your mother when they deliver a living child
to the world. At that point they are yours.

> 	Asinine.

Accurate and just more like it. Asinine is believing that you can use
other people as property simply because you want to make money off some
activity that benefits you. Right for me, not for thee.

Typical anarcho-libertarian-crypto bullshit.

> 	Unless you are chaining people to their desks, posting armed 
> guards to prevent them from leaving, or using the law to prevent them 
> from quiting and finding another job, you aren't treating them as 
> property.

If you're walking around telling them who they may see, what they may do
outside of work, the sorts of political views they may have, the sorts of
inter-personal views (eg Tim's hatred of lesbianism) and activities they
may engage in, etc. Unless you can demonstrate the activity is causing a
corruption of the work process it isn't any of the employers business.

If you don't treat them as people with the same liberties and right of
decision that you as an individual have then yes, you are in fact treating
them as property.
 
> 	You are treating them as adults, as independent people who 
> can make up their own minds as to where and under what conditions 
> they are willing to work.

Bullshit, what you're saying is 'do it my way or else'. That isn't what
business is about. As an employer your range of control over an 'adult' is
to verify their actions comply with the profit making requirements of the
business, and no more. It is not to use the business as a mechanism to
expand your personal views onto others.

> >process of making profit. Democratic theory demands that unless the
> >calendar can be demonstrably infringing a civil liberty it shouldn't be an
> >issue. Freedom until you infringe anothers.
> >
> >The fundamental flaw with Libertarianism is it's myopic focus on economic
> >efficiency. It's just another form of oppression via another face of
> >socialism.
> 
> 	Utter nonsense. But then the further the subject strays from 
> programming and computers, the more that is common from you.

Demostrate please. The rights of the individual are inalienable, that
include a business. A business is not a right like speech. A business
requires at least two parties rights do not, the other party has a say and
therefore the act of business can't be a right because 'the choice' by its
very nature is not confined to a single party.

> >As to money being the primary goal of society and it having some ability
> >to guarantee anything approaching 'justice',
> >
> >"Money and not morality is the principle of commerce and commercial
> >nations."
> 
> 	Money, or rather the trade of goods and services *is* the 
> morality of a society.

No, it is how society funds itself. It has nothing to do with morality
since even polar opposites in this respect must still engage in some sort
of activity to survive. If you were correct then there would be some
oppresive societies which don't use economics, which flies in the face of
your assertion.

This is the fundamental flaw of this view of economics. Societies don't
need economics (consider a 5 person family on the African sveldt) but
economies do need society (they require the population size in order to
have a 'market' and they need the political and ethical stability that
ensues so that 'contracts' can exist. Without contracts no economy can
exist because without them there is no recognition, outside of direct
force, of property rights.

> 	Or to put it a little better, Money is the INDICATOR of the 
> morality of a culture. It tells you what they value, what they want 
> and what they think important.

Money is a tool to createa  stable and enjoyable society (it also creates
the polar opposite). Even bad societies have money so it can't indicate
anything about the society itself, other than it conforms to the human
psychological norm of group behaviour.

    ____________________________________________________________________

           Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a
           smaller group must first understand it.

                                           "Stranger Suns"
                                           George Zebrowski

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage at ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------






More information about the cypherpunks-legacy mailing list