From stuffed at stuffed.net Thu Oct 1 02:47:39 1998 From: stuffed at stuffed.net (STUFFED NEWS DAILY) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 02:47:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: TODAY'S NEWS AND PICS PACKED STUFFED! - READ IT NOW! Message-ID: <19981001071000.25713.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com> + 30 FREE HOT JPEG PHOTOS + 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES + GOP SMUTMONGERS + SEX SEX SEX + THE ANGRY DWARF + STARR DODGES A BULLET + EROTIC SPICES + THE BEST OF EUREKA + FLEA GATE + WHERE'S THE BEEF ----> http://stuffed.net/98/10/1/ <---- Welcome to today's issue of Stuffed. To read it you should click on the URL above. If it is not made clickable by your email program you will need to use your mouse to highlight the URL, copy it and then paste it into your browser (then press Return). This email is never sent unsolicited. Stuffed is the supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full instructions on unsubscribing are in every issue of Eureka! ----> http://stuffed.net/98/10/1/ <---- From ExplodeIncome at urgentmail.com Thu Oct 1 06:17:43 1998 From: ExplodeIncome at urgentmail.com (ExplodeIncome at urgentmail.com) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 06:17:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: :) :) Shed The Pounds The Easy Way :) :) Message-ID: <0031600011057606000002L062*@MHS> EAT! EAT! EAT! And Still Lose Weight! No Joke! Need To Lose Weight Quick? Don't Have Time To Exercise? HERE'S YOUR ANSWER! And You Can Eat As Much As You Want! Introducing Slender Now(tm) GUARANTEED WEIGHT LOSS FOR LIFE! How Confident Are We?... In 30 Days If You're Not Completely Satisfied With This System, Send The "Empty" Bottles Back For FULL Refund! This System Is So Effective, Test Subjects Typically Lose 10 - 15 Pounds of FAT in the FIRST MONTH! More Importantly, The Rebound Effect So Common With Other Forms Of Weight Loss Has Been Eliminated. * A NO-FAIL Slender Now(tm) BURN, BIND, BLOCK and BUILD System BURN - StimuLean(tm) - A Unique Herbal Thermogenic Formula that allows stored fats to be turned into energy (see below). BIND - SlenderLean(tm) - A unique state-of-the-art fiber-based product that binds up to 40 grams (360 fat calories) of dietary fat from the foods you've just eaten, therefore throwing these excess fat calories out of your body as waste rather than storing them as fat (see below). BLOCK - Phase'oLean(tm) - It's back! Dr. Marshall's Exclusive STARCH BLOCKER(tm) FORMULA has been approved for re-release for the first time in 15 years! Each tablet has the capacity to block the digestion and absorption of more than 100 grams or more than 400 calories of starch (see below). BUILD - Aminolyze(tm) - This product contains the specific amino acids necessary for your body to make new collagen. It helps maintain lean body mass and build muscle tissue; very important while losing weight. You burn fat, rather than muscle, which helps to maintain a healthy lean body mass ratio * Eat as much as you want! * Your energy level will skyrocket! * 100% safe and all natural! * Get results in two weeks! * 30 Day Money back guarantee - no questions asked! * EAT AS MUCH AS YOU WANT! That's right, you can continue to eat your favorite high calorie foods and still lose weight! That was mpossible until now! With the revolutionary Slender Now(tm) System, you can enjoy your favorite foods like steak, pork, eggs and dairy products and still achieve your goal. * 100% SAFE AND ALL NATURAL! The Slender Now(tm) System contains no preservatives, sugar, starch, salt, wheat, yeast, milk, soy derivatives, artificial flavoring or coloring agents. * GET RESULTS IN TWO WEEKS! 90% of our clients are experiencing incredible results and immediate energy within the first two weeks! * MONEY BACK GUARANTEE! You have 30 days to try the products. If you are less than completely satisfied, send the "empty" bottles back for a full 100% refund. You Have 30 DAYS To Try The Products At Wholesale Prices Here is what just two people had to say (and there are many more): Sharon H., female, age 44, Real-Estate agent, Atlanta, GA. "I've lost 23 pounds in four weeks and 2 dress sizes and my husband has lost 15. We were skeptical because we thought it was another one of those fad diets. However, after researching and experiencing the products, this is going to revolutinalize weight loss. People have been asking me what I'm doing and when I tell them they don't believe it, so I just tell them to try it. Why not? It comes with a 100% money back guarantee!" Stanley K., male, age 41, Pittsburgh, PA. "These products are amazing! Not only have I lost 15 pounds in first month, my energy level is high and consistent throughout the day. The system is easy; I've never been able to lose weight like this! I'm actually eating more! This has just blown me away. And the most incredible thing is that I've haven't dieted a bit with the exception of avoiding excess starches." For FREE, No Obligation Information About The Slender Now(tm) System, Call Toll FREE: 1-888-668-0615 Due to the overwhelming response, you may get a busy signal. If you do call 1-888-841-6242 From bubba219 at mailexcite.com Thu Oct 1 07:51:18 1998 From: bubba219 at mailexcite.com (bubba219 at mailexcite.com) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 07:51:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: MAJOR STOCK ALERT!! A 3 MILLION GOLD RESOURCE CONFIRMED!! Message-ID: <199810011450.HAA01797@toad.com> GOLD RIDGE INVESTMENT CORP. ANNOUNCES: GOLD MARKET RECOVERY GAINING STRENGTH - INVESTORS SHIFTING ATTENTION TO UNDERVALUED COMPANIES WITH WORLD-CLASS GOLD DEPOSITS EMGOLD MINING'S 100%-OWNED IDAHO-MARYLAND PROJECT HOSTS 2.97 MILLION OUNCE RESOURCE - TO BE DEVELOPED @ 140,000 oz/yr @ US$215 / oz Au EMGOLD MINING CORPORATION ("EMR" - VSE) 1610 - 777 Dunsmuir Street, P. O. Box 10435 Vancouver, BC V7Y 1K4 Canada Phone: (604) 687 - 4622 Fax: (604) 687 - 4212 Toll-Free: (888) 267 - 1400 website: http://www.emgold.com Introduction EMGOLD MINING CORP. has made significant progress in bringing the historic Idaho-Maryland gold mine to a production decision. Recent engineering studies indicate that less than half of the known gold has been extracted from the deposit, and that a 3,000,000 ounce resource remains to be mined. History & Past Production The Idaho-Maryland gold mine was discovered in 1851, and was in nearly-continuous production from 1862 through 1956. Total recorded production from the mine was 2,383,000 ounces of gold from 5,546,000 tons of ore (0.43 oz/ton recovered grade). When the mine closed in 1956 due to escalating costs and the fixed price of gold of US$35/oz, mining operations were underway on 25 different faces on 6 different levels. Large Mineralized System Defined - Extensive Infrastructure In Place The Idaho-Maryland vein system is 9,000 feet long, up to 3,000 feet wide, and has been partially-mined from surface to the 2000 foot level. Access to the mine's 15 working levels is provided by the three-compartment, 3,460-foot deep New Brunswick Shaft. Over 70 miles of underground tunnels and workings provide access to much of the property. A Three Million Ounce Gold Resource Has Been Defined�. A 1992 study by James Askew and Associates Inc. estimated that the remaining gold resources and potential mineralization between the 2000 and 3280 levels of the Idaho-Maryland mine are 9,117,500 ST @ 0.326 oz Au/ST (containing 2,968,400 oz Au). This resource estimate excludes the potential for large, bulk tonnage targets identified by EMGOLD in 1997. Upside Potential: 3,000,000+ oz Au Located within the wedge-shaped confines of three bounding faults, a 3-D geologic model developed for the Idaho-Maryland mine demonstrates the potential for continuity of the existing vein system to a vertical depth of 5,000 feet (the Idaho-Maryland mine is essentially unexplored below a depth of 3,280 feet). What is not widely known is that the adjoining Empire mine produced six million ounces of gold to a depth of 5,200 feet! This fact, combined with the knowledge that all mineralized structures developed on the lowest levels of the Idaho-Maryland mine remain open at depth, supports EMGOLD's belief that considerably more ore may exist at depth. Development Program (1998 - 1999) EMGOLD's plans for reviving the Idaho-Maryland mine are to first de-water the mine, and then go underground to do further exploration to prove up the total resource potential. EMGOLD has applied for and been granted all permits necessary for re-opening the New Brunswick shaft, de-watering the mine and completing a bankable feasibility. Potential Gold Production of at Least 140,000 oz / yr @ US$215 / oz Au EMGOLD plans to resume operations at the Idaho-Maryland mine at an initial mining rate of 1,500 ST ore / day, which would produce approximately 140,000 ounces of gold per year. With the addition of a second shaft, it may be possible to increase production to 5,000 ST/day - at this production level, the Idaho-Maryland mine would produce over 200,000 ounces of gold per year (on par with other major mines). Recent studies indicate that the Idaho-Maryland mine could be profitably developed and operated at a long-term gold price of US$300/oz based on an estimated operating cost (excluding capital and royalties) of US$215 per ounce. Current Market Conditions The current gold rally is gaining strength with each passing day! In the past month, bullion prices have risen nearly 10%. Yesterday, the Philadelphia XAU gold and silver index closed at 74.69, up 53% from its record low of 48.67 set in late August. Mining stocks have regained favor with major Wall Street firms: Merrill Lynch has initiated coverage of Placer Dome, Barrick, TVX and Kinross, while Bear Stearns has upgraded the recommendations of Asarco, Cyprus Amax and Phelps Dodge. To a large extent, the market rebound has largely benefited the major mining companies, whose share prices are now fully-valued (or even over-valued) at current gold prices. However, we believe that, as the current rally continues, investors will increasingly seek out undervalued junior exploration and development companies with multi-million ounce gold deposits. Opportunity for Investors Trading at a tremendous discount to its fair market value, EMGOLD offers investors a low-risk investment opportunity in the current market environment, and a chance to accumulate a significant position in a stock that can be expected to rally strongly as gold prices move above US$300 / oz. With just 11.5 million shares outstanding (14 million fully-diluted) and a current share price of Cdn$0.28, the equity markets are valuing the Idaho-Maryland gold mine at just Cdn$1.06 per ounce of gold (Cdn$1.35 / oz Au on a fully-diluted basis). EMGOLD's Idaho-Maryland mine offers one of the best advanced exploration / developmental prospects available in North America. With inferred resources of almost three million ounces, nearly one hundred years of operating history, an existing 3,400-foot, three-compartment shaft and 70+ miles of underground workings, EMGOLD has 100% control of a world-class gold project with the vast majority of the expensive infrastructure in place and ready to go. For more information, please contact Andrew Hunter toll-free at 1 - 888 - 267 - 1400 Disclaimer: The information contained herein has been compiled or derived from sources believed reliable and contains information and opinions which are accurate and complete. However, Gold Ridge makes no representation or warranty, express or implied, in respect thereof, takes no responsibility for any errors and omissions which may be contained herein and accepts no liability whatsoever for any loss arising from any use or reliance upon this report or its contents. The information provided is for information purposes only and should not be construed as, and shall not form part of an offer or solicitation to but or sell any securities. Emgold Mining has paid Gold Ridge a fee of US$20,000.00 for preparing and disseminating this information. --------------------
GOLD RIDGE INVESTMENT CORP. ANNOUNCES: GOLD MARKET RECOVERY GAINING STRENGTH - INVESTORS SHIFTING ATTENTION TO UNDERVALUED COMPANIES WITH WORLD-CLASS GOLD DEPOSITS EMGOLD MINING'S 100%-OWNED IDAHO-MARYLAND PROJECT HOSTS 2.97 MILLION OUNCE RESOURCE - TO BE DEVELOPED @ 140,000 oz/yr @ US$215 / oz Au EMGOLD MINING CORPORATION ("EMR" - VSE) 1610 - 777 Dunsmuir Street, P. O. Box 10435 Vancouver, BC  V7Y 1K4  Canada Phone: (604) 687 - 4622    Fax: (604) 687 - 4212 Toll-Free:  (888) 267 - 1400 website:  http://www.emgold.com Introduction
EMGOLD MINING CORP. has made significant progress in bringing the historic Idaho-Maryland gold mine to a production decision.  Recent engineering studies indicate that less than half of the known gold has been extracted from the deposit, and that a 3,000,000 ounce resource remains to be mined. History & Past Production
The Idaho-Maryland gold mine was discovered in 1851, and was in nearly-continuous production from 1862 through 1956.  Total recorded production from the mine was 2,383,000 ounces of gold from 5,546,000 tons of ore (0.43 oz/ton recovered grade).  When the mine closed in 1956 due to escalating costs and the fixed price of gold of US$35/oz, mining operations were underway on 25 different faces on 6 different levels. Large Mineralized System Defined - Extensive Infrastructure In Place The Idaho-Maryland vein system is 9,000 feet long, up to 3,000 feet wide, and has been partially-mined from surface to the 2000 foot level.  Access to the mine's 15 working levels is provided by the three-compartment, 3,460-foot deep New Brunswick Shaft.  Over 70 miles of underground tunnels and workings provide access to much of the property. A Three Million Ounce Gold Resource Has Been Defined…. A 1992 study by James Askew and Associates Inc. estimated that the remaining gold resources and potential mineralization between the 2000 and 3280 levels of the Idaho-Maryland mine are 9,117,500 ST @ 0.326 oz Au/ST (containing 2,968,400 oz Au).  This resource estimate excludes the potential for large, bulk tonnage targets identified by EMGOLD in 1997.  Upside Potential:  3,000,000+ oz Au
Located within the wedge-shaped confines of three bounding faults, a 3-D geologic model developed for the Idaho-Maryland mine demonstrates the potential for continuity of the existing vein system to a vertical depth of 5,000 feet (the Idaho-Maryland mine is essentially unexplored below a depth of 3,280 feet). What is not widely known is that the adjoining Empire mine produced six million ounces of gold to a depth of 5,200 feet!  This fact, combined with the knowledge that all mineralized structures developed on the lowest levels of the Idaho-Maryland mine remain open at depth, supports EMGOLD's belief that considerably more ore may exist at depth. Development Program (1998 - 1999)
EMGOLD's plans for reviving the Idaho-Maryland mine are to first de-water the mine, and then go underground to do further exploration to prove up the total resource potential.   EMGOLD has applied for and been granted all permits necessary for re-opening the New Brunswick shaft, de-watering the mine and completing a bankable feasibility. Potential Gold Production of at Least 140,000 oz / yr @ US$215 / oz Au EMGOLD plans to resume operations at the Idaho-Maryland mine at an initial mining rate of 1,500 ST ore / day, which would produce approximately 140,000 ounces of gold per year.  With the addition of a second shaft, it may be possible to increase production to 5,000 ST/day - at this production level, the Idaho-Maryland mine would produce over 200,000 ounces of gold per year (on par with other major mines). Recent studies indicate that the Idaho-Maryland mine could be profitably developed and operated at a long-term gold price of US$300/oz based on an estimated operating cost (excluding capital and royalties) of US$215 per ounce.  Current Market Conditions
The current gold rally is gaining strength with each passing day! In the past month, bullion prices have risen nearly 10%.  Yesterday, the Philadelphia XAU gold and silver index closed at 74.69, up 53% from its record low of 48.67 set in late August. Mining stocks have regained favor with major Wall Street firms:  Merrill Lynch has initiated coverage of Placer Dome, Barrick, TVX and Kinross, while Bear Stearns has upgraded the recommendations of Asarco, Cyprus Amax and Phelps Dodge. To a large extent, the market rebound has largely benefited the major mining companies, whose share prices are now fully-valued (or even over-valued) at current gold prices.  However, we believe that, as the current rally continues, investors will increasingly seek out undervalued junior exploration and development companies with multi-million ounce gold deposits. Opportunity for Investors
Trading at a tremendous discount to its fair market value, EMGOLD offers investors a low-risk investment opportunity in the current market environment, and a chance to accumulate a significant position in a stock that can be expected to rally strongly as gold prices move above US$300 / oz. With just 11.5 million shares outstanding (14 million fully-diluted) and a current share price of Cdn$0.28, the equity markets are valuing the Idaho-Maryland gold mine at just Cdn$1.06 per ounce of gold (Cdn$1.35 / oz Au on a fully-diluted basis).  EMGOLD's  Idaho-Maryland mine offers one of the best advanced exploration / developmental prospects available in North America.  With inferred resources of almost three million ounces, nearly one hundred years of operating history, an existing 3,400-foot, three-compartment  shaft and 70+ miles of underground workings, EMGOLD has 100% control of a world-class gold project with the vast majority of the expensive infrastructure in place and ready to go. For more information, please contact Andrew Hunter toll-free at 1 - 888 - 267 - 1400 Disclaimer: The information contained herein has been compiled or derived from sources believed reliable and contains information and opinions which are accurate and complete.  However, Gold Ridge makes no representation or warranty, express or implied, in respect thereof, takes no responsibility for any errors and omissions which may be contained herein and accepts no liability whatsoever for any loss arising from any use or reliance upon this report or its contents.  The information provided is for information purposes only and should not be construed as, and shall not form part of an offer or solicitation to but or sell any securities.  Emgold Mining has paid Gold Ridge a fee of US$20,000.00 for preparing and disseminating this information.
NOTE: For those on the internet who do not want to recieve exciting messages such as this..... * To be removed from our mailing list, simple send "remove" to the return address. *We strive to comply with all state and federal laws and to send ads only to interested parties. *This ad is not intended for nor do we knowingly send to Washington State residents. PRINT THIS AD FOR FUTURE CONSIDERATION!! From bubba219 at mailexcite.com Thu Oct 1 08:44:03 1998 From: bubba219 at mailexcite.com (bubba219 at mailexcite.com) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 08:44:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: MAJOR STOCK ALERT!! A 3 MILLION GOLD RESOURCE CONFIRMED!! Message-ID: <199810011543.IAA02192@toad.com> GOLD RIDGE INVESTMENT CORP. ANNOUNCES: GOLD MARKET RECOVERY GAINING STRENGTH - INVESTORS SHIFTING ATTENTION TO UNDERVALUED COMPANIES WITH WORLD-CLASS GOLD DEPOSITS EMGOLD MINING'S 100%-OWNED IDAHO-MARYLAND PROJECT HOSTS 2.97 MILLION OUNCE RESOURCE - TO BE DEVELOPED @ 140,000 oz/yr @ US$215 / oz Au EMGOLD MINING CORPORATION ("EMR" - VSE) 1610 - 777 Dunsmuir Street, P. O. Box 10435 Vancouver, BC V7Y 1K4 Canada Phone: (604) 687 - 4622 Fax: (604) 687 - 4212 Toll-Free: (888) 267 - 1400 website: http://www.emgold.com Introduction EMGOLD MINING CORP. has made significant progress in bringing the historic Idaho-Maryland gold mine to a production decision. Recent engineering studies indicate that less than half of the known gold has been extracted from the deposit, and that a 3,000,000 ounce resource remains to be mined. History & Past Production The Idaho-Maryland gold mine was discovered in 1851, and was in nearly-continuous production from 1862 through 1956. Total recorded production from the mine was 2,383,000 ounces of gold from 5,546,000 tons of ore (0.43 oz/ton recovered grade). When the mine closed in 1956 due to escalating costs and the fixed price of gold of US$35/oz, mining operations were underway on 25 different faces on 6 different levels. Large Mineralized System Defined - Extensive Infrastructure In Place The Idaho-Maryland vein system is 9,000 feet long, up to 3,000 feet wide, and has been partially-mined from surface to the 2000 foot level. Access to the mine's 15 working levels is provided by the three-compartment, 3,460-foot deep New Brunswick Shaft. Over 70 miles of underground tunnels and workings provide access to much of the property. A Three Million Ounce Gold Resource Has Been Defined�. A 1992 study by James Askew and Associates Inc. estimated that the remaining gold resources and potential mineralization between the 2000 and 3280 levels of the Idaho-Maryland mine are 9,117,500 ST @ 0.326 oz Au/ST (containing 2,968,400 oz Au). This resource estimate excludes the potential for large, bulk tonnage targets identified by EMGOLD in 1997. Upside Potential: 3,000,000+ oz Au Located within the wedge-shaped confines of three bounding faults, a 3-D geologic model developed for the Idaho-Maryland mine demonstrates the potential for continuity of the existing vein system to a vertical depth of 5,000 feet (the Idaho-Maryland mine is essentially unexplored below a depth of 3,280 feet). What is not widely known is that the adjoining Empire mine produced six million ounces of gold to a depth of 5,200 feet! This fact, combined with the knowledge that all mineralized structures developed on the lowest levels of the Idaho-Maryland mine remain open at depth, supports EMGOLD's belief that considerably more ore may exist at depth. Development Program (1998 - 1999) EMGOLD's plans for reviving the Idaho-Maryland mine are to first de-water the mine, and then go underground to do further exploration to prove up the total resource potential. EMGOLD has applied for and been granted all permits necessary for re-opening the New Brunswick shaft, de-watering the mine and completing a bankable feasibility. Potential Gold Production of at Least 140,000 oz / yr @ US$215 / oz Au EMGOLD plans to resume operations at the Idaho-Maryland mine at an initial mining rate of 1,500 ST ore / day, which would produce approximately 140,000 ounces of gold per year. With the addition of a second shaft, it may be possible to increase production to 5,000 ST/day - at this production level, the Idaho-Maryland mine would produce over 200,000 ounces of gold per year (on par with other major mines). Recent studies indicate that the Idaho-Maryland mine could be profitably developed and operated at a long-term gold price of US$300/oz based on an estimated operating cost (excluding capital and royalties) of US$215 per ounce. Current Market Conditions The current gold rally is gaining strength with each passing day! In the past month, bullion prices have risen nearly 10%. Yesterday, the Philadelphia XAU gold and silver index closed at 74.69, up 53% from its record low of 48.67 set in late August. Mining stocks have regained favor with major Wall Street firms: Merrill Lynch has initiated coverage of Placer Dome, Barrick, TVX and Kinross, while Bear Stearns has upgraded the recommendations of Asarco, Cyprus Amax and Phelps Dodge. To a large extent, the market rebound has largely benefited the major mining companies, whose share prices are now fully-valued (or even over-valued) at current gold prices. However, we believe that, as the current rally continues, investors will increasingly seek out undervalued junior exploration and development companies with multi-million ounce gold deposits. Opportunity for Investors Trading at a tremendous discount to its fair market value, EMGOLD offers investors a low-risk investment opportunity in the current market environment, and a chance to accumulate a significant position in a stock that can be expected to rally strongly as gold prices move above US$300 / oz. With just 11.5 million shares outstanding (14 million fully-diluted) and a current share price of Cdn$0.28, the equity markets are valuing the Idaho-Maryland gold mine at just Cdn$1.06 per ounce of gold (Cdn$1.35 / oz Au on a fully-diluted basis). EMGOLD's Idaho-Maryland mine offers one of the best advanced exploration / developmental prospects available in North America. With inferred resources of almost three million ounces, nearly one hundred years of operating history, an existing 3,400-foot, three-compartment shaft and 70+ miles of underground workings, EMGOLD has 100% control of a world-class gold project with the vast majority of the expensive infrastructure in place and ready to go. For more information, please contact Andrew Hunter toll-free at 1 - 888 - 267 - 1400 Disclaimer: The information contained herein has been compiled or derived from sources believed reliable and contains information and opinions which are accurate and complete. However, Gold Ridge makes no representation or warranty, express or implied, in respect thereof, takes no responsibility for any errors and omissions which may be contained herein and accepts no liability whatsoever for any loss arising from any use or reliance upon this report or its contents. The information provided is for information purposes only and should not be construed as, and shall not form part of an offer or solicitation to but or sell any securities. Emgold Mining has paid Gold Ridge a fee of US$20,000.00 for preparing and disseminating this information. --------------------
GOLD RIDGE INVESTMENT CORP. ANNOUNCES: GOLD MARKET RECOVERY GAINING STRENGTH - INVESTORS SHIFTING ATTENTION TO UNDERVALUED COMPANIES WITH WORLD-CLASS GOLD DEPOSITS EMGOLD MINING'S 100%-OWNED IDAHO-MARYLAND PROJECT HOSTS 2.97 MILLION OUNCE RESOURCE - TO BE DEVELOPED @ 140,000 oz/yr @ US$215 / oz Au EMGOLD MINING CORPORATION ("EMR" - VSE) 1610 - 777 Dunsmuir Street, P. O. Box 10435 Vancouver, BC  V7Y 1K4  Canada Phone: (604) 687 - 4622    Fax: (604) 687 - 4212 Toll-Free:  (888) 267 - 1400 website:  http://www.emgold.com Introduction
EMGOLD MINING CORP. has made significant progress in bringing the historic Idaho-Maryland gold mine to a production decision.  Recent engineering studies indicate that less than half of the known gold has been extracted from the deposit, and that a 3,000,000 ounce resource remains to be mined. History & Past Production
The Idaho-Maryland gold mine was discovered in 1851, and was in nearly-continuous production from 1862 through 1956.  Total recorded production from the mine was 2,383,000 ounces of gold from 5,546,000 tons of ore (0.43 oz/ton recovered grade).  When the mine closed in 1956 due to escalating costs and the fixed price of gold of US$35/oz, mining operations were underway on 25 different faces on 6 different levels. Large Mineralized System Defined - Extensive Infrastructure In Place The Idaho-Maryland vein system is 9,000 feet long, up to 3,000 feet wide, and has been partially-mined from surface to the 2000 foot level.  Access to the mine's 15 working levels is provided by the three-compartment, 3,460-foot deep New Brunswick Shaft.  Over 70 miles of underground tunnels and workings provide access to much of the property. A Three Million Ounce Gold Resource Has Been Defined…. A 1992 study by James Askew and Associates Inc. estimated that the remaining gold resources and potential mineralization between the 2000 and 3280 levels of the Idaho-Maryland mine are 9,117,500 ST @ 0.326 oz Au/ST (containing 2,968,400 oz Au).  This resource estimate excludes the potential for large, bulk tonnage targets identified by EMGOLD in 1997.  Upside Potential:  3,000,000+ oz Au
Located within the wedge-shaped confines of three bounding faults, a 3-D geologic model developed for the Idaho-Maryland mine demonstrates the potential for continuity of the existing vein system to a vertical depth of 5,000 feet (the Idaho-Maryland mine is essentially unexplored below a depth of 3,280 feet). What is not widely known is that the adjoining Empire mine produced six million ounces of gold to a depth of 5,200 feet!  This fact, combined with the knowledge that all mineralized structures developed on the lowest levels of the Idaho-Maryland mine remain open at depth, supports EMGOLD's belief that considerably more ore may exist at depth. Development Program (1998 - 1999)
EMGOLD's plans for reviving the Idaho-Maryland mine are to first de-water the mine, and then go underground to do further exploration to prove up the total resource potential.   EMGOLD has applied for and been granted all permits necessary for re-opening the New Brunswick shaft, de-watering the mine and completing a bankable feasibility. Potential Gold Production of at Least 140,000 oz / yr @ US$215 / oz Au EMGOLD plans to resume operations at the Idaho-Maryland mine at an initial mining rate of 1,500 ST ore / day, which would produce approximately 140,000 ounces of gold per year.  With the addition of a second shaft, it may be possible to increase production to 5,000 ST/day - at this production level, the Idaho-Maryland mine would produce over 200,000 ounces of gold per year (on par with other major mines). Recent studies indicate that the Idaho-Maryland mine could be profitably developed and operated at a long-term gold price of US$300/oz based on an estimated operating cost (excluding capital and royalties) of US$215 per ounce.  Current Market Conditions
The current gold rally is gaining strength with each passing day! In the past month, bullion prices have risen nearly 10%.  Yesterday, the Philadelphia XAU gold and silver index closed at 74.69, up 53% from its record low of 48.67 set in late August. Mining stocks have regained favor with major Wall Street firms:  Merrill Lynch has initiated coverage of Placer Dome, Barrick, TVX and Kinross, while Bear Stearns has upgraded the recommendations of Asarco, Cyprus Amax and Phelps Dodge. To a large extent, the market rebound has largely benefited the major mining companies, whose share prices are now fully-valued (or even over-valued) at current gold prices.  However, we believe that, as the current rally continues, investors will increasingly seek out undervalued junior exploration and development companies with multi-million ounce gold deposits. Opportunity for Investors
Trading at a tremendous discount to its fair market value, EMGOLD offers investors a low-risk investment opportunity in the current market environment, and a chance to accumulate a significant position in a stock that can be expected to rally strongly as gold prices move above US$300 / oz. With just 11.5 million shares outstanding (14 million fully-diluted) and a current share price of Cdn$0.28, the equity markets are valuing the Idaho-Maryland gold mine at just Cdn$1.06 per ounce of gold (Cdn$1.35 / oz Au on a fully-diluted basis).  EMGOLD's  Idaho-Maryland mine offers one of the best advanced exploration / developmental prospects available in North America.  With inferred resources of almost three million ounces, nearly one hundred years of operating history, an existing 3,400-foot, three-compartment  shaft and 70+ miles of underground workings, EMGOLD has 100% control of a world-class gold project with the vast majority of the expensive infrastructure in place and ready to go. For more information, please contact Andrew Hunter toll-free at 1 - 888 - 267 - 1400 Disclaimer: The information contained herein has been compiled or derived from sources believed reliable and contains information and opinions which are accurate and complete.  However, Gold Ridge makes no representation or warranty, express or implied, in respect thereof, takes no responsibility for any errors and omissions which may be contained herein and accepts no liability whatsoever for any loss arising from any use or reliance upon this report or its contents.  The information provided is for information purposes only and should not be construed as, and shall not form part of an offer or solicitation to but or sell any securities.  Emgold Mining has paid Gold Ridge a fee of US$20,000.00 for preparing and disseminating this information.
NOTE: For those on the internet who do not want to recieve exciting messages such as this..... * To be removed from our mailing list, simple send "remove" to the return address. *We strive to comply with all state and federal laws and to send ads only to interested parties. *This ad is not intended for nor do we knowingly send to Washington State residents. PRINT THIS AD FOR FUTURE CONSIDERATION!! From petro at playboy.com Thu Oct 1 00:21:01 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 15:21:01 +0800 Subject: EduFUD: Computers, software can harm emotional, socialdevelopment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 1:50 PM -0500 10/1/98, Robert Hettinga wrote: If you (and others) are going to forward this kind of stuff, could you least foucs long enough to make sure it is properly formatted? It's a touch difficult to read. >> Computers, software can harm emotional, social development >> >> By Barbara F. Meltz, Globe Staff, 10/01/98 >> >> Short attention span. Needs instant gratification. Can't >> focus. Doesn't apply >> himself. >> >> If this is what you're hearing from your child's first- >> or second-grade teacher, >> before you panic and think learning disabilities or >> attention deficit disorder, >> consider something external: your family computer. >> >> Educators have long intuited that early exposure to >> computers doesn't give >> children an educational edge. Now researchers have data >> to show it can >> actually be harmful, potentially undercutting brain >> development, interfering -- petro at playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy. petro at bounty.org-----for everthing else. They wouldn't like that. They REALLY Economic speech IS political speech. wouldn't like that. From petro at playboy.com Thu Oct 1 00:29:25 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 15:29:25 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) In-Reply-To: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A1928471D@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com> Message-ID: At 2:18 PM -0500 10/1/98, Kevin Elliott wrote: >Said Matthew James Gering, > >>Bullshit, monopolies exist because of the regulation. > >I'm afraid sir, that your ingonorance is showing. Pick up any college >(hell, high school) ecomonics textbook. Certain types of businesses are >inheritly advantagious to monopolies. The electric company is the classic >example- their is no cost effective way for an electric company to supply >power to a given area unless it is a monopoly. Certain types of businesses >are suited to certain types of competition, and, unregulated, monopolies >are exactly what you get. This was exactly the situation that occured at >the turn of the century and it happened because regulation was >non-existant! Your statement is wonderfully trite but I see no evidence to >support it. I'd suggest you go back to school and think a bit.In most places the "Electric Company" is a goverment sponsored and deligated monopoly. Competition is prohibited by REGULATION. This also occurs with Gas, Water, Telephone, especially Non-commercial, cable, and in some places Garbage disposal. -- petro at playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy. petro at bounty.org-----for everthing else. They wouldn't like that. They REALLY Economic speech IS political speech. wouldn't like that. From jenny672 at usa.net Thu Oct 1 00:30:49 1998 From: jenny672 at usa.net (jenny672 at usa.net) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 15:30:49 +0800 Subject: Been there....Done that.... Message-ID: <199810012014.NAA03876@toad.com> Dear Friend, I want to share this with you, I am sure like me you have tried many different opportunities at home and most of them don't work, or they want more money than we can afford. I figured what's $5 when we have spent so much more..... Need some fast cash? Try this: ******************************************************************* If you are prepared to read on, BE PREPARED TO GET EXCITED...YOU WON'T BE DISAPPOINTED! ******************************************************************* Read the following and you will agree this is a very exciting opportunity. Only invest a little bit of time and your reward could mean thousands of dollars! Good luck! ********************************************************************* $$$ ARE YOU IN NEED OF MONEY? RIGHT NOW? $$$ $$$ HOW DOES US$10,000 IN TWO(2) WEEKS (or less) SOUND? $$$ Don't laugh! This a very logical and rewarding opportunity! 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Consider this, MILLIONS of people "surf the Internet" everyday, all day, all over the World! FIFTY THOUSAND new people get on the Internet every month! An excellent source of names is the people who send you other programs, and the names listed on the letter they send you. Your contact source is UNLIMITED. It boggles my mind to think of all the possibilities! Mail, or should I say Email, your letter TODAY! It's so easy, ONE HOUR of your time. THAT'S IT! To send your newsletter by Email: 1. Go to "Edit" and "Select All" 2. Go to "Edit" and "Copy" 3. Start (compose) a new Email message 4. Address your Email and Subject Blocks 5. Go to "Edit" and "Paste" After you have pasted this article in your new Email, delete the old header and footer (Subject, Date, To, From, Etc..). Now you can edit the names and addresses with ease. I recommend deleting the top name, adding your name and address to the bottom of the list, then simply changing the numbers. THERE IS NOTHING MORE TO DO. 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Email this today to people that need an extra income fast.....thanks. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From rah at shipwright.com Thu Oct 1 00:40:12 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 15:40:12 +0800 Subject: Rain in Death Valley In-Reply-To: <199810011932.OAA20010@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: At 3:37 PM -0400 on 10/1/98, X wrote: > If the area you refer to is below sea-level, where would the hard-rains > runoff run off to? True enough. The water runs off the mountains *into* most of Death Valley, not *out* of it. Cheers, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Thu Oct 1 00:41:17 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 15:41:17 +0800 Subject: copyright at the point of a gun In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199810012027.VAA09013@server.eternity.org> Christopher Petro writes: > I never said they should, however in this case I will make the > arguement that the Feds DID have something to do with creating the > Jaggernaut called M$, and that they could also fix Billys little redmond > wagon without a court case shoud they wish. On the Feds buying M$ software (no big deal ... if it suits them let them buy it). The real subsidy of M$ and any software vendor is the copyright, patent, and license enforcement mechanism provided by the government. Don't forget that copyright enforcement boils down to thugs with guns coming to lock you up. In a crypto-anarchic society concepts such as copyright, license and patents have little meaning because the obvious statement of reality is that once you have released something to another individual, you lose all control over it. With strong anonymity, ecash and so on, even things like GNU, patents, export controls whatever can be swept away for individuals, and for anonymous companies. GNU license? No problem, just ignore the license. Copright? No problem just ignore the copyright notices, strip them off. Patents? Ignore them to. If people still buy software, or support contracts from anonymous companies who ignore patents, well that is the market deciding what it thinks of copyright. Judging by the state of software-piracy with PC software with 80-90%+ piracy rates, the market is already pretty much ok with ignoring copyright, and would be happy to have no copyrights. The bounty scheme, support contracts are much closer to the natural schelling points in a free society than "enforcement" of bit flow, and ideas. FSF is the first wave. Adam From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Thu Oct 1 00:47:54 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 15:47:54 +0800 Subject: importance of motivation (Re: EduFUD: Computers, software can harm emotional, social development) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199810012036.VAA09025@server.eternity.org> Robert Hettinga writes: > By the way, "span" is the wrong word for ADD. I was hardly raised on TV, > much less computers, (I had my face in science fiction books throughout > most of my childhood), and I've been known to focus on something > "inappropriately" for hours. > > While I certainly have varying degrees of control of my attention, but I > just don't see that a "handicap" anymore. My attention is event-driven, > rather than processed in neat organized batches, and I've learned to like > it that way, even if it did give me trouble when I was chained in the > aforementioned tower's dungeon for most of my formative years. That doesn't sound like ADD, that sounds like human nature. People pay attention and focus on what interests them. Some things I drag through slowly and put off because they are boring, other things (say like eternity servers), when I have a new idea, I do more in 3 days (@ 20 hours/day) than I would otherwise do in a month on a boring project. I suspect many programmer types are similar, interest in the job is all important. This phenomena motivates quotes like Attila's one about managing programmers being like "herding cats". I don't see why a ecash advocate, evangelist, and writer should have a different experience. (Or do I have ADD too?) btw. you should read (if you haven't) this piece distributed with emacs attached below. I find it rings very true. Adam % cat /usr/share/emacs/19.31/etc/MOTIVATION STUDIES FIND REWARD OFTEN NO MOTIVATOR Creativity and intrinsic interest diminish if task is done for gain By Alfie Kohn Special to the Boston Globe [reprinted with permission of the author from the Monday 19 January 1987 Boston Globe] In the laboratory, rats get Rice Krispies. In the classroom the top students get A's, and in the factory or office the best workers get raises. It's an article of faith for most of us that rewards promote better performance. But a growing body of research suggests that this law is not nearly as ironclad as was once thought. Psychologists have been finding that rewards can lower performance levels, especially when the performance involves creativity. A related series of studies shows that intrinsic interest in a task - the sense that something is worth doing for its own sake - typically declines when someone is rewarded for doing it. If a reward - money, awards, praise, or winning a contest - comes to be seen as the reason one is engaging in an activity, that activity will be viewed as less enjoyable in its own right. With the exception of some behaviorists who doubt the very existence of intrinsic motivation, these conclusions are now widely accepted among psychologists. Taken together, they suggest we may unwittingly be squelching interest and discouraging innovation among workers, students and artists. The recognition that rewards can have counter-productive effects is based on a variety of studies, which have come up with such findings as these: Young children who are rewarded for drawing are less likely to draw on their own that are children who draw just for the fun of it. Teenagers offered rewards for playing word games enjoy the games less and do not do as well as those who play with no rewards. Employees who are praised for meeting a manager's expectations suffer a drop in motivation. Much of the research on creativity and motivation has been performed by Theresa Amabile, associate professor of psychology at Brandeis University. In a paper published early last year on her most recent study, she reported on experiments involving elementary school and college students. Both groups were asked to make "silly" collages. The young children were also asked to invent stories. The least-creative projects, as rated by several teachers, were done by those students who had contracted for rewards. "It may be that commissioned work will, in general, be less creative than work that is done out of pure interest," Amabile said. In 1985, Amabile asked 72 creative writers at Brandeis and at Boston University to write poetry. Some students then were given a list of extrinsic (external) reasons for writing, such as impressing teachers, making money and getting into graduate school, and were asked to think about their own writing with respect to these reasons. Others were given a list of intrinsic reasons: the enjoyment of playing with words, satisfaction from self-expression, and so forth. A third group was not given any list. All were then asked to do more writing. The results were clear. Students given the extrinsic reasons not only wrote less creatively than the others, as judged by 12 independent poets, but the quality of their work dropped significantly. Rewards, Amabile says, have this destructive effect primarily with creative tasks, including higher-level problem-solving. "The more complex the activity, the more it's hurt by extrinsic reward," she said. But other research shows that artists are by no means the only ones affected. In one study, girls in the fifth and sixth grades tutored younger children much less effectively if they were promised free movie tickets for teaching well. The study, by James Gabarino, now president of Chicago's Erikson Institute for Advanced Studies in Child Development, showed that tutors working for the reward took longer to communicate ideas, got frustrated more easily, and did a poorer job in the end than those who were not rewarded. Such findings call into question the widespread belief that money is an effective and even necessary way to motivate people. They also challenge the behaviorist assumption that any activity is more likely to occur if it is rewarded. Amabile says her research "definitely refutes the notion that creativity can be operantly conditioned." But Kenneth McGraw, associate professor of psychology at the University of Mississippi, cautions that this does not mean behaviorism itself has been invalidated. "The basic principles of reinforcement and rewards certainly work, but in a restricted context" - restricted, that is, to tasks that are not especially interesting. Researchers offer several explanations for their surprising findings about rewards and performance. First, rewards encourage people to focus narrowly on a task, to do it as quickly as possible and to take few risks. "If they feel that 'this is something I hve to get through to get the prize,' the're going to be less creative," Amabile said. Second, people come to see themselves as being controlled by the reward. They feel less autonomous, and this may interfere with performance. "To the extent one's experience of being self-determined is limited," said Richard Ryan, associate psychology professor at the University of Rochester, "one's creativity will be reduced as well." Finally, extrinsic rewards can erode intrinsic interest. People who see themselves as working for money, approval or competitive success find their tasks less pleasurable, and therefore do not do them as well. The last explanation reflects 15 years of work by Ryan's mentor at the University of Rochester, Edward Deci. In 1971, Deci showed that "money may work to buy off one's intrinsic motivation for an activity" on a long-term basis. Ten years later, Deci and his colleagues demonstrated that trying to best others has the same effect. Students who competed to solve a puzzle quickly were less likely than those who were not competing to keep working at it once the experiment was over. Control plays role There is general agreement, however, that not all rewards have the same effect. Offering a flat fee for participating in an experiment - similar to an hourly wage in the workplace - usually does not reduce intrinsic motivation. It is only when the rewards are based on performing a given task or doing a good job at it - analogous to piece-rate payment and bonuses, respectively - that the problem develops. The key, then, lies in how a reward is experienced. If we come to view ourselves as working to get something, we will no longer find that activity worth doing in its own right. There is an old joke that nicely illustrates the principle. An elderly man, harassed by the taunts of neighborhood children, finally devises a scheme. He offered to pay each child a dollar if they would all return Tuesday and yell their insults again. They did so eagerly and received the money, but he told them he could only pay 25 cents on Wednesday. When they returned, insulted him again and collected their quarters, he informed them that Thursday's rate would be just a penny. "Forget it," they said - and never taunted him again. Means to and end In a 1982 study, Stanford psychologist Mark L. Lepper showed that any task, no matter how enjoyable it once seemed, would be devalued if it were presented as a means rather than an end. He told a group of preschoolers they could not engage in one activity they liked until they first took part in another. Although they had enjoyed both activities equally, the children came to dislike the task that was a prerequisite for the other. It should not be surprising that when verbal feedback is experienced as controlling, the effect on motivation can be similar to that of payment. In a study of corporate employees, Ryan found that those who were told, "Good, you're doing as you /should/" were "significantly less intrinsically motivated than those who received feedback informationally." There's a difference, Ryan says, between saying, "I'm giving you this reward because I recognize the value of your work" and "You're getting this reward because you've lived up to my standards." A different but related set of problems exists in the case of creativity. Artists must make a living, of course, but Amabile emphasizes that "the negative impact on creativity of working for rewards can be minimized" by playing down the significance of these rewards and trying not to use them in a controlling way. Creative work, the research suggests, cannot be forced, but only allowed to happen. /Alfie Kohn, a Cambridge, MA writer, is the author of "No Contest: The Case Against Competition," recently published by Houghton Mifflin Co., Boston, MA. ISBN 0-395-39387-6. / % From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Oct 1 00:48:32 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 15:48:32 +0800 Subject: copyright at the point of a gun (fwd) Message-ID: <199810012050.PAA20791@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 21:27:56 +0100 > From: Adam Back > Subject: copyright at the point of a gun > Judging by the state of software-piracy with PC software with 80-90%+ > piracy rates, the market is already pretty much ok with ignoring > copyright, and would be happy to have no copyrights. So long as it isn't money your taking out of their pocket. There is an obvious double standard at play in the piracy issue. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Thu Oct 1 00:53:53 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 15:53:53 +0800 Subject: reformatting C:\Washington-DC (Re: [RRE]Conference: Technological Visions) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199810012041.VAA09030@server.eternity.org> Steve Bryan writes: > Tim May > >Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash. > > If you reformat the drives, there's no need to empty the trash. I suspect the quote was meant to imply that the "trash" would get overwritten with 0s (or as this is cypherpunks overwritten with high quality random number output, multiple times!) (And if you want to be nitpicky about the metaphor, reformatting doesn't overwrite with 0s, typically, so the trash and all would still be there.) Adam From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Thu Oct 1 01:02:06 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 16:02:06 +0800 Subject: business regulatory burden (Re: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199810012045.VAA09036@server.eternity.org> Christoper Petro writes: > >If you seriously think this is a heavily regulated market you should do more > >research into such places as Nazi Germany, Russia, China, etc. > > France, England etc. > > We are _going_ that route, with more and more regualtion being > dumped on the backs of businesses daily. Yup I can confirm that one for England. I made the mistake of registering a Ltd company to do crypto hacking through, and you would not believe the mountain of forms they send you. I reckon I must've had order of a foot deep pile of paper sent to me since doing it. As a one man type operation, most of it can go straight in the trash, but you've still got to sift it. Adam From petro at playboy.com Thu Oct 1 01:18:50 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 16:18:50 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810011954.OAA20323@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: At 2:54 PM -0500 10/1/98, Jim Choate wrote: >Forwarded message: > >> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 14:35:28 -0500 >> From: Petro >> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) > >> Nothing is as stable on NT as it is on a (properly installed) linux >> system. > >That is the point after all. > >> Your NT systems are installed improperly then. You should be able >> to get at least a week, if not 2 out of them. > >I'll beg to differ with you. You can beg if you want, but I can keep my Mac up for 3 or 4 days at a time, you SHOULD be able to get at least 2 weeks out of NT, assuming your hardware isn't flakey. -- petro at playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy. petro at bounty.org-----for everthing else. They wouldn't like that. They REALLY Economic speech IS political speech. wouldn't like that. From brianbr at together.net Thu Oct 1 02:03:31 1998 From: brianbr at together.net (Brian B. Riley) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 17:03:31 +0800 Subject: EduFUD: Computers, software can harm emotional, social development Message-ID: <199810012200.SAA19389@mx02.together.net> On 10/1/98 2:50 PM, Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com) passed this wisdom: >I guess I know too many stone geniuses who've had computers since they were >children -- most of the people on this list were raised that way, I would >bet -- to take this crap too seriously, reduced attention "spans" or not. > >By the way, "span" is the wrong word for ADD. I was hardly raised on TV, >much less computers, (I had my face in science fiction books throughout >most of my childhood), and I've been known to focus on something >"inappropriately" for hours. Ever since I discovered my ADHD some two or three years after I started working with ADHD kids in the our school district a lot of things began to make sense. But I came to realize and now make it a point to tell these kids that taken as a whole ADD/ADHD is a blessing more so than a curse. The ability to hyper-focus on a task at hand gives you the power to do in a few hours sometimes things it would take others a day or more to do. For the truly ADD kid (as opposed to the culturally induced variety) the hell he has gone through and the incredible low self-esteen they generally have, just hearing that is often enough to make a radical turn-around for them. >While I certainly have varying degrees of control of my attention, but I >just don't see that a "handicap" anymore. My attention is event-driven, >rather than processed in neat organized batches, and I've learned to like >it that way, even if it did give me trouble when I was chained in the >aforementioned tower's dungeon for most of my formative years. > >Besides, even if computers cause people to have event-driven attention >rather than in nice neat industrial batches, that's probably a Good >Thing(tm). Consider it evolution in action. > >Farmers and mechanics may need "control" of their attention, but in an >information "hunter" like myself, most of the people who do anything useful >on the net, it's a selective disadvantage. ... amen!!! Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys "The 2nd amendment guarantees all the rest." From nobody at replay.com Thu Oct 1 02:05:13 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 17:05:13 +0800 Subject: Been there....Done that.... Message-ID: <199810012154.XAA13706@replay.com> Hi Jenny672, Wow, what a spectacular offer you've given us! And guess what? Today's your lucky day! You know why? I'll tell you. See, I'm independently wealthy, and so while I have no need to participate in your scam, I've decided that it would definitely be worth $10,000 of my own money to have you and everyone else on your stinking list killed! I know, you're saying, "How does that make it my *lucky* day?" The reason you don't know is because you're brain dead. So I'll tell you, and you'll just have to believe me. See, when you're dead, the world will be a much better place. Intelligent people everywhere will rejoice, and maybe, just maybe, your excruciatingly painful and torturous death will help bring people together in the common cause of killing everyone else in the world like you. So won't you be happy to know that your death will bring about a better world? It's your lucky day, because you get to make the *whole world* a better place! Thanks for the opportunity, my friend! You've made my day! At 01:14 PM 10/1/98 -0700, jenny672 at usa.net wrote: >Dear Friend, > > >I want to share this with you, I am sure like me you have tried many >different opportunities at home and most of them don't work, or they want >more money than we can afford. I figured what's $5 when we have spent so >much more..... > >Need some fast cash? Try this: > >******************************************************************* >If you are prepared to read on, BE PREPARED TO GET EXCITED...YOU >WON'T BE DISAPPOINTED! > >******************************************************************* >Read the following and you will agree this is a very exciting >opportunity. Only invest a little bit of time and your reward could >mean thousands of dollars! Good luck! > >********************************************************************* > >$$$ ARE YOU IN NEED OF MONEY? RIGHT NOW? $$$ >$$$ HOW DOES US$10,000 IN TWO(2) WEEKS (or less) SOUND? $$$ > >Don't laugh! This a very logical and rewarding opportunity! >One(1) hour of work to get started and NO MAILING LISTS! > >--------Esquire Marketing Newsletter Gift Club-------- > >********************************************************************* > >If you need to make a few thousand dollars REALLY FAST, then please take >a moment to read this simple program I am sharing with you. No, it is >NOT what you think! YOU DO NOT have to send $5.00 to five people to buy >a report, buy a recipe, or any other product. Nor will you need to >invest more money later to get things going. THIS IS THE FASTEST, >EASIEST PROGRAM YOU WILL EVER DO! Complete it in ONE HOUR and you will >never forget the day you first received it. > >--------This Is How It Works-------- > >Unlike many other programs, this three-level program is more realistic >and much, much faster. Because it is so easy, the response rate for this >program is VERY HIGH and VERY FAST, and you will see results in two >weeks or less! Just in time for next month's bills! > >You only mail out 20 copies ( not 200 or more as in other programs). You >should also try to send them to PEOPLE WHO SEND YOU THEIR PROGRAMS >because they know THESE PROGRAMS WORK and they are already believers >in the system! Besides, this program is much, much FASTER and has a HIGHER >RESPONSE RATE. > >Even if you are already in a similar program, STAY WITH IT, but do yourself a >favor and DO THIS ONE as well. START RIGHT NOW! It's simple and takes >a very small investment. It will pay off long before other letters even >begin to trickle in! > >Just give ONE person a US $5.00 gift. That' s all! > >Follow the simple instructions and in TWO WEEKS you will have US $10,000 >in your bank account!!! Because of the LOW INVESTMENT, SPEED and HIGH >PROFIT POTENTIAL, this program has a VERY HIGH RESPONSE RATE. JUST >ONE (1) US$5.00 BILL. THAT'S YOUR INVESTMENT! > >+------+ Follow These Simple Instructions +------+ > >1. On a blank sheet of paper write "Please add me to your mailing list." >Write your name and address clearly and include your Email address (if >you have one) for future mailings and courtesy follow ups. Fold it >around a US $5 bill and send this to the FIRST name on the list (#1). >Only the FIRST PERSON on the list gets YOUR NAME AND A FIVE DOLLAR >GIFT. > >Note: This is a service and is 100% legal (Refer to US Postal & Lottery >Laws, Title 18, Sections 1302 and 1341 or Title 18, Section 3005 in the >US Code, also in the Code of Federal Regulations, Volume 16, Sections >255 and 436, which state that "a product or service must be exchanged >for money received.") > >2. Retype the list ONLY, REMOVING the FIRST (#1) NAME FROM THE LIST. >Move the other two names UP and ADD YOUR NAME to the list in the >THIRD(#3) position. > >3. Send out 20 copies of this letter. Note: By sending this letter via >Email, the response time is much faster and you save the expense of >envelopes, stamps, and copying services. Consider this, MILLIONS of >people "surf the Internet" everyday, all day, all over the World! FIFTY >THOUSAND new people get on the Internet every month! An excellent >source of names is the people who send you other programs, and the names >listed on the letter they send you. Your contact source is UNLIMITED. >It boggles my mind to think of all the possibilities! Mail, or should I >say Email, your letter TODAY! It's so easy, >ONE HOUR of your time. THAT'S IT! > >To send your newsletter by Email: > >1. Go to "Edit" and "Select All" >2. Go to "Edit" and "Copy" >3. Start (compose) a new Email message >4. Address your Email and Subject Blocks >5. Go to "Edit" and "Paste" > >After you have pasted this article in your new Email, delete the old >header and footer (Subject, Date, To, From, Etc..). Now you can edit >the names and addresses with ease. I recommend deleting the top name, >adding your name and address to the bottom of the list, then simply >changing the numbers. > >THERE IS NOTHING MORE TO DO. When your name reaches the first position >in a few days, it will be your turn to collect your gifts. The gifts >will be sent to you by 1,500 to 2,000 people like yourself, who are >willing to invest US$5.00 and one hour to receive US$10,000 in cash. >That s all! There will be a total of US$10,000 (or more) in US$5.00 >bills in your mailbox in two weeks. >US$10,000 for an hour's work! I think it s WORTH IT, don t you? > >GO AHEAD -- TRY IT. IT'S US$5.00! EVEN IF YOU JUST MAKE 3 OR 4 >THOUSAND, WOULDN'T THAT BE NICE?! IF YOU TRY IT, IT WILL PAY!!!! > >--------TRUE STORY-------- > >Cindy Allen writes: I ran this gift summation four times last year. >The first time I received over $7,000 in cash in less than two weeks and >over $10,000 in cash in the next three times I ran it. I can't begin to >tell you how great it feels not to have to worry about money anymore! >I thank God for the day I received this letter! It has truly changed my >life! Don t be afraid to make gifts to strangers, they�ll come back to >you ten-fold. So, let's keep it going and help each other in these "tough >and uncertain times." > >Many of us just want to pay off our bills, buy a new car or buy a new >home for our family. Whatever your reasons or needs are, this program >worked for Cindy and thousands of others (just like you and I) time and >time again! THIS PROGRAM CAN AND WILL WORK FOR YOU!!! > >--------Can I Do It Again? -------- > >OF COURSE YOU CAN...This plan is structured for everyone to send only >twenty(20) letters each. However, you are certainly not limited to >twenty. Mail out as many as you can. Every twenty letters you send has >a return to you of $10,000 or more. If you can mail forty, sixty, >eighty, or whatever, GO FOR IT! THE MORE YOU PUT INTO IT, THE MORE YOU >GET OUT OF IT! > >Each time you run this program, just follow the steps (1) through (3) >and everyone on your gift list benefits! Simple enough? You bet it is! >Besides, there are no mailing lists to buy (and wait for), no further >trips to the printer or copiers, and you can do it again and again with >your regular group of gifters, or start up a new group. Some people >produce a mailing list of opportunity seekers and send out 200 or more. >Why not? It beats working! Each time you receive a MLM offer in the >mail, respond with THIS letter! Your name will climb to the number one >position at dizzying geometric rates. > >Follow the simple instructions and above all, please "PLAY FAIR." > >That's the key to this program's success. Your name must run the "full >gamut" on the list to produce the end results. "Sneaking" your name >higher up on the list WILL NOT produce the results you think, and it >only cheats the other people who have worked hard and earned the right >to be there. So please, play by the rules and the $$,$$$ will come to >you!!! > >--------Mail Your Letters Out Today-------- > >$$$ TOGETHER, WE WILL ALL PROSPER $$$ > >Mail your US$5.00 "Gift" to the first name on the list ONLY. Remove the >first name and move the other two up one place and put your name in the >#3 position. > >GOOD LUCK!!! > > >************************************************************************ > >1. G.U >PO Box 1437 >Monterey Park, CA 91754 > >2. Jorge S. >40 Newport Pkwy >Apt. 214 >Jersey City, NJ 07310 > >3. Sun Prod >1350 E. Flamingo Rd. suite #426 >Las Vegas, NV 89119 > >******************************************************************* >Remember your total cost for participation is only $5.32 >$5 gift and 32 cent stamp to mail it. Email this today to people >that need an extra income fast.....thanks. >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > From mgering at ecosystems.net Thu Oct 1 02:16:07 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 17:16:07 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A1928471F@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com> Jim Choate wrote: > I'd say the obvious one, the Unix code tree is more stable > than the MS tree. Sure, but does that mean the MS platform was less suitable than Unix, or their MS platform programmers were inferior to their Unix counterparts. I believe Netscape outsourced the Unix development, at least initially. I would blame insufficient SQA at Netscape, and from what I've heard that claim is justified. Matt From mgering at ecosystems.net Thu Oct 1 02:19:01 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 17:19:01 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A19284720@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com> > >Bullshit, monopolies exist because of the regulation. > > I'm afraid sir, that your ingonorance is showing. Is it? > Pick up any college (hell, high school) economics > textbook. Yes, why don't we try anyone from the Austrian or Chicago Schools, or have you not gotten that far in your Econ 101 textbook? I'll even give you a couple to start with: Friedrich A. Hayek, Ludwig von Mises, Carl Menger, Adam Smith, Murray Rothbard, Milton Friedman, Alan Greenspan. You also might try Frederic Bastiat, Ayn Rand. Try reading some of the studies done by the CATO Institute No, you can keep your Western Illinois school of voodoo economics to yourself. > Certain types of businesses are inheritly advantagious to > monopolies. The electric company is the classic example- There are very few natural monopolies. Few to none. The sewer system or local access roads are better examples than electricity -- all electricity requires is right-of-way access, it is not scarce on property like roads. Copper/fiber is already run by three separate entities (phone, cable, electric) to the home and there is evidence to show that it came be made much for free (see fiber-running in Helsinki). Right-of-way is the source of the monopoly. Problem is government will assume it is a natural monopoly and create a coercive one. Take telephony for example, which is so blatantly obvious today that it is not a natural monopoly -- yet try getting dry copper circuits and providing dial-tone and see the mess of regulation you run into. > Certain types of businesses are suited to certain types of > competition, and, unregulated, monopolies are exactly what > you get. Show me an example of an unregulated coercive monopoly whose source of monopoly power is not ultimately the government. Efficient monopolies (e.g. ALCOA) exist in early markets, but they are not coercive, they cannot prevent competition, they can only be efficient enough that they capital market won't see the returns to justify a second entrant. > This was exactly the situation that occured at the turn of > the century and it happened because regulation was non-existant! I suggest you question the motivation of your sources. We are living in the shadow of socialism and big government, who proclaimed the evils of capitalism and stepped in to save the day. Were they justified? Read what Greenspan thinks turn-of-the-century monopolists and resulting regulation: http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html Matt PS. Your spelling is as bad as Jim's. One starts to wonder if bad spelling and bad logic go hand in hand. From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Thu Oct 1 02:34:12 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 17:34:12 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <199810012235.RAA21520@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: Matthew James Gering > Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) > Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 15:15:18 -0700 > Show me an example of an unregulated coercive monopoly whose source of > monopoly power is not ultimately the government. The Mafia. The handful of world-class coke dealers. Your local church. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From vznuri at netcom.com Thu Oct 1 03:08:03 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 18:08:03 +0800 Subject: EduFUD: Computers, software can harm emotional, social development In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199810012307.QAA27055@netcom13.netcom.com> I just saw a special on nightline last night in which Koppel berated his guests for not necessarily agreeing that computer budgets are too much, and not doing good, possibly doing bad for kids, and that more research is necessary before schools commit to computers. it's totally reactionary, and neo-luddite. it's like saying, "stop the world!! it's going too fast!! it's making me dizzy!! I want to get off!!" heck, wasn't it just a few weeks ago the govt was screaming in a study about how there would soon be a shortage of computer scientists? the hypocrisy of the establishment is always breathtaking and unparalleled. one researcher said that it was causing kids not putting up with frustration or frustrating experiences as much. well, hallelujah I say!! if the sheeple of this country had less tolerance for the intolerable situations regularly encountered in schools, govts, business, etc.-- perhaps it would GO AWAY as they exert their influence and pressure and displeasure. imho, the "powers that be" are terrified of computers. PCs are very egalitarian and are creating a new revolution in information flow and economies. a student who understands how to navigate through the world of knowledge without a chaperone is a dangerous, freethinking individual in our current stifling, asphyxiating intellectual atmosphere. the whole image of parents limiting how much their children can surf the net is quite amusing to me. it's like trying to push a river. computers have shown up on the radars of the "powers that be" as having an alarming effect on the people that use them. perhaps they are less likely to tolerate crap in their lives? less tolerant of worthless "middlemen", or less politely, parasites? forgive me if I may be a bit more sharp here. there are many, many parasites feeding off the crap of our culture, and they don't want that crap to dry up. but cyberspace has a remarkable ability to cut through the crap and the parasites. "the speed of cyberspace"... a new speed limit in the world. or rather, a new breakdown in all previous limits. a speed UNLIMIT. oh, the terror! kids might even get bored with our cultures 2 great opiates: sports and entertainment. who knows what will happen then? tyranny is held in place by frivolous and meaningless pastimes and amusements in our world. fortunately, PCs and the internet are now an unstoppable force. we will see soon what happens when it meets many "immovable objects" such as govt ineptitude, intransigence, entrenched control freaks, slavemasters, etc..... PCs are definitely becoming a political and social force now. not all effects are positive, but it's creating a new reality I vastly prefer to the old, shriveled up one. From rah at shipwright.com Thu Oct 1 03:17:38 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 18:17:38 +0800 Subject: EduFUD: Computers, software can harm emotional, social development In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 4:13 PM -0400 on 10/1/98, Petro wrote: > At 1:50 PM -0500 10/1/98, Robert Hettinga wrote: > > If you (and others) are going to forward this kind of stuff, could > you least foucs long enough to make sure it is properly formatted? > > It's a touch difficult to read. Actually, that was the point. It came to me that way. Most of these educrats don't know how to use their email yet. :-). Cheers, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Thu Oct 1 03:18:55 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 18:18:55 +0800 Subject: Is the .to (Tonga) domain completely rogue and should beremoved? Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 15:57:48 -0400 Reply-To: egullich at tonic.to Originator: com-priv at lists.psi.com Sender: com-priv at lists.psi.com Precedence: bulk From: egullich at tonic.to (Eric Gullichsen) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Is the .to (Tonga) domain completely rogue and should be removed? X-Comment: Commercialization and Privatization of the Internet This is an official reply to Barry Shein who recently cross-posted to inet-access at earth.com, nanog at merit.edu, domain-policy at lists.internic.net, and com-priv at psi.com under the Subject heading: Is the .to (Tonga) domain completely rogue and should be removed? As TLD admin for the .TO ccTLD, I thought Mr. Shein's posting deserved a reply. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Mr. Shein: I am the hostmaster and Administrative, Technical and Zone Contact at Tonic, the top level domain name registration authority for the .TO country code (http://rs.internic.net/cgi-bin/whois?to5-dom). Since June 1997, our automated domain name registry at http://www.tonic.to has been facilitating the registration of .TO names as a service to the global Internet community. Neither Tonic nor IANA policy requires the registered owner of a .TO name to be physically situated in the Kingdom of Tonga. >We've been having increasing problems with one or more porn sites in the >.to domain promoting itself by massive spamming of >AOL customers using one of our domains in their From: header thus causing >both complaints to us and thousands of bounces >from AOL due to bad AOL addresses in their spam lists. We are sorry to hear that you have been having problem with SPAM involving a .TO domain, and wish to draw your attention to the fact that .TO is the *only* top level domain we know of with an explicit antispam policy. We at Tonic feel strongly about spam, and believe it to be theft of service, and a very bad thing for the net in general. It is our policy to terminate the registration of a domain name involved in spam, after warning the domain name holder to cease unsolicited bulk mailings that involve a .TO name. >From our FAQ (at http://www.tonic.to/faq.htm): Q: I'm a spammer. Is a .TO domain something I should use? Tonic feels very strongly that the sending of unsolicited bulk email ("spamming") constitutes theft of service, and we do not condone the use of .TO domain names for this purpose. If we receive complaints that a .TO domain name has been used for this purpose, we will advise the domain owner of the complaint and request that they desist from this activity. Tonic reserves the right to remove any .TO name registration if a name is used as a source of spam, or an address to which to reply to such bulk mail solicitations. We have had to delete a number of .TO domains for egregious SPAM and will continue to do so in the cases where a stern warning fails to solve the problem. Please send a copy of any SPAM involving a .TO domain name to: hostmaster at tonic.to and we will warn the spammer and/or terminate the domain name registration. >Looking at the .to domain I can't help but notice it's heavily laden with >what appear to be porn sites (sexonline.to, come.to, >xxxhardcore.to, etc.) The .COM domain is no less "heavily laden" with porn sites. You will note that sexonline.com and xxxhardcore.com are names registered with the InterNIC. The come.to site is a free web redirection site supporting more than 100,000 customers. Furthermore, Tonic is a domain name registry, not a content censor. >In support of this assertion I want to show you an SMTP conversation with >what claims to be the Consulate of the >Government of Tonga in San Francisco (This San Francisco office is listed >as an official Tongan contact point for visas etc by >the US State Dept): > >world% telnet sfconsulate.gov.to 25 > >Trying 209.24.51.169... >Connected to sfconsulate.gov.to. >Escape character is '^]'. >220 colo.to SMTP ready, Who are you gonna pretend to be today? VRFY postmaster >500 Bloody Amateur! Proper forging of mail requires recognizable SMTP >commands! The primary nameserver for .TO is physically located at the Consulate of Tonga in San Francisco. On all our machines, we run the Obtuse smtpd/smtpfwdd SMTP store and forward proxy (http://www.obtuse.com/smtpd.html) to secure our port 25 and thereby prevent 3rd party mail relaying. Your reasoning as to why its responses to incorrect SMTP commands constitutes evidence that the .TO domain is "negligent", "mismanaged" and "an attractive resource for criminal activities" is ironically incorrect. In fact, having an *unsecured* port 25 open to mail relaying would be negligent. Best regards, - Eric Gullichsen Tonic Corporation Kingdom of Tonga Network Information Center http://www.tonic.to Email: egullich at tonic.to --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From vznuri at netcom.com Thu Oct 1 03:20:04 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 18:20:04 +0800 Subject: microcurrency proposal Message-ID: <199810012320.QAA27969@netcom13.netcom.com> recently James Donald wrote some well-thought-out/reasoned comments on digital currency and microcurrency. I've been talking about microcurrency for many years on this list, and am quite chagrined lately at how long it is taking to actually materialize. I would have thought it would be available, for web pages especially, by now. the new scaled-back goals of Digicash are disappointing, but a good reality check. musing over all this is leading me in the following direction. a few months ago or so I posted info about a company that was doing a plugin for netscape that allowed some small currency transactions. I don't know what happened to this company-- does anyone remember who it was, or their web site? but I think this is a very promising approach. a company can create a plugin that would support microcurrency charges for web page hits very easily. here's how: the plugin interacts with any site that has enabled it. it sends a code to the site using a protocol. the site returns pages only upon a valid transaction request. for regular browsers without the plugin, the message is, "sorry, this page costs $.01, please download so-and-so plugin". people are very willing to download plugins to look at pages. people download plugins just to look at animation boxes. surely they will be willing to download them to serve up entire pages/content. how would the cash charge work? when the person gets the plugin, they give the plugin company their credit card number. the company takes care of the problem of accruing micro charges, keeping track of transactions/bills, and billing the credit card in large amounts. contesting a charge would tend to happen very rarely (because of the small charges, it is barely worth the effort), but the system could still support this. the problem is trying to transfer money to various individuals if their microcharge accounts have a net positive value instead of negative (in which case they would be charged their credit card at the end of the month). how do you transfer this money? one possibility is sending a check at the end of every month, or quarter, somewhat similar to the Amazon associates program. another possibility is figuring a way to credit a credit card account. this can be done, but from what I understand it is "frowned upon" by the companies. I have always wondered if the "powers that be" have intentionally tried to enforce this so that credit cards cannot turn into a cash transfer mechanism. of course, I'm leaving the issue of taxes out of this, but the microcharge company could be a point of collection for them. notice that none of what I am proposing above requires any new infrastructure whatsoever, except a little programming into a plugin. the distribution of the plugin is partly solved in that plugins are already distributed all over the net and understood by end-users. such a plugin could rapidly become the standard for "microcurrency" and be a wedge that might be the creation of a whole new industry within an industry. i.e. microcurrency on the web, very much the way Netscape virtually singlehandedly created the entire industry of the web within the existing internet. the door is wide open. such a company could be a very lucrative endeavor if handled very delicately and carefully, navigating the minefield of glitches that are surely to be present (many of which have prevented it from happening to date) as I understand, the digicash software was not in fact in plugin form for a browser. this is a pretty serious handicap imho. the technique of turning it all into a browser plugin based on the existing credit card system seems to me to be the crucial element that could make it happen. From rah at shipwright.com Thu Oct 1 03:20:44 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 18:20:44 +0800 Subject: IP: New ExecOrd: Computer Software Piracy Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Delivered-To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com X-Sender: believer at telepath.com Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 15:50:05 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: New ExecOrd: Computer Software Piracy Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Precedence: list Reply-To: believer at telepath.com Source: US Newswire http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/1001-125.txt Clinton Issues Executive Order on Computer Software Piracy U.S. Newswire 1 Oct 14:10 Clinton Issues Executive Order on Computer Software Piracy To: National Desk, Technology Writer Contact: White House Press Office, 202-456-2100 WASHINGTON, Oct. 1 /U.S. Newswire/ -- The following was released today by the White House: EXECUTIVE ORDER - - - - - - - COMPUTER SOFTWARE PIRACY The United States Government is the world's largest purchaser of computer-related services and equipment, purchasing more than $20 billion annually. At a time when a critical component in discussions with our international trading partners concerns their efforts to combat piracy of computer software and other intellectual property, it is incumbent on the United States to ensure that its own practices as a purchaser and user of computer software are beyond reproach. Accordingly, by the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, it is hereby ordered as follows: Section 1. Policy. It shall be the policy of the United States Government that each executive agency shall work diligently to prevent and combat computer software piracy in order to give effect to copyrights associated with computer software by observing the relevant provisions of international agreements in effect in the United States, including applicable provisions of the World Trade Organization Agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights, the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works, and relevant provisions of Federal law, including the Copyright Act. (a) Each agency shall adopt procedures to ensure that the agency does not acquire, reproduce, distribute, or transmit computer software in violation of applicable copyright laws. (b) Each agency shall establish procedures to ensure that the agency has present on its computers and uses only computer software not in violation of applicable copyright laws. These procedures may include: (1) preparing agency inventories of the software present on its computers; (2) determining what computer software the agency has the authorization to use; and (3) developing and maintaining adequate recordkeeping systems. (c) Contractors and recipients of Federal financial assistance, including recipients of grants and loan guarantee assistance, should have appropriate systems and controls in place to ensure that Federal funds are not used to acquire, operate, or maintain computer software in violation of applicable copyright laws. If agencies become aware that contractors or recipients are using Federal funds to acquire, operate, or maintain computer software in violation of copyright laws and determine that such actions of the contractors or recipients may affect the integrity of the agency's contracting and Federal financial assistance processes, agencies shall take such measures, including the use of certifications or written assurances, as the agency head deems appropriate and consistent with the requirements of law. (d) Executive agencies shall cooperate fully in implementing this order and shall share information as appro-priate that may be useful in combating the use of computer software in violation of applicable copyright laws. Sec. 2. Responsibilities of Agency Heads. In connection with the acquisition and use of computer software, the head of each executive agency shall: (a) ensure agency compliance with copyright laws protecting computer software and with the provisions of this order to ensure that only authorized computer software is acquired for and used on the agency's computers; (b) utilize performance measures as recommended by the Chief Information Officers Council pursuant to section 3 of this order to assess the agency's compliance with this order; (c) educate appropriate agency personnel regarding copyrights protecting computer software and the policies and procedures adopted by the agency to honor them; and (d) ensure that the policies, procedures, and practices of the agency related to copyrights protecting computer software are adequate and fully implement the policies set forth in this order. Sec. 3. Chief Information Officers Council. The Chief Information Officers Council ("Council") established by section 3 of Executive Order No. 13011 of July 16, 1996, shall be the principal interagency forum to improve executive agency practices regarding the acquisition and use of computer software, and monitoring and combating the use of unauthorized computer software. The Council shall provide advice and make recommendations to executive agencies and to the Office of Management and Budget regarding appropriate government-wide measures to carry out this order. The Council shall issue its initial recommendations within 6 months of the date of this order. Sec. 4. Office of Management and Budget. The Director of the Office of Management and Budget, in carrying out responsibilities under the Clinger-Cohen Act, shall utilize appropriate oversight mechanisms to foster agency compliance with the policies set forth in this order. In carrying out these responsibilities, the Director shall consider any recommendations made by the Council under section 3 of this order regarding practices and policies to be instituted on a government-wide basis to carry out this order. Sec. 5. Definition. "Executive agency" and "agency" have the meaning given to that term in section 4(1) of the Office of Federal Procurement Policy Act (41 U.S.C. 403(1)). Sec. 6. National Security. In the interest of national security, nothing in this order shall be construed to require the disclosure of intelligence sources or methods or to otherwise impair the authority of those agencies listed at 50 U.S. 401a(4) to carry out intelligence activities. Sec. 7. Law Enforcement Activities. Nothing in this order shall be construed to require the disclosure of law enforcement investigative sources or methods or to prohibit or otherwise impair any lawful investigative or protective activity undertaken for or by any officer, agent, or employee of the United States or any person acting pursuant to a contract or other agreement with such entities. Sec. 8. Scope. Nothing in this order shall be construed to limit or otherwise affect the interpretation, application, or operation of 28 U.S.C. 1498. Sec. 9. Judicial Review. This Executive order is intended only to improve the internal management of the executive branch and does not create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, at law or equity by a party against the United States, its agencies or instrumentalities, its officers or employees, or any other person. WILLIAM J. CLINTON THE WHITE HOUSE, September 30, 1998. -0- /U.S. Newswire 202-347-2770/ 10/01 14:10 Copyright 1998, U.S. Newswire ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From vznuri at netcom.com Thu Oct 1 03:50:00 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 18:50:00 +0800 Subject: IP: Clear and present danger: FIGHT AGAINST NATIONAL ID CARD Message-ID: <199810012350.QAA00536@netcom13.netcom.com> From: "A.C." Subject: IP: Clear and present danger: FIGHT AGAINST NATIONAL ID CARD Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 01:22:50 -0700 To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com >>http://www.house.gov/barr/p_doj.html >> >> >September 17, 1998 BARR TAKES FIGHT AGAINST NATIONAL ID CARD TO HEARINGS, SPEARHEADS EFFORT WITH GRASSROOTS GROUPS WASHINGTON, DC -- At a news conference before a hearing on federal attempts to establish a national identification system, U.S. Representative Bob Barr (GA-7) released the following statement. The hearings, which will be held later today by the Government Reform and Oversight Committee's Subcommittee on National Economic Growth, Natural Resources, and Regulatory Affairs, will focus on this issue. "One of the most precious liberties Americans possess is the ability to live their lives without a big-brother government, with vast power, looking over their shoulders at every opportunity. Our federal government is already too powerful, too expensive, and too intrusive. We should be working to reduce its size and cost, rather than expanding it. "Our Founding Fathers intended to create a system with division of power between three branches of government and between the state and federal governments in order to protect our rights. These moves to centralize power in the executive branch of the federal government by establishing a national identification card system represent an effort to disrupt the balance of power that has served our nation so well for so long. We must put a stop to these initiatives, begun in 1996 when legislation authorizing a national i.d. was snuck into an omnibus spending bill with no debate, public input, or vote, before it is too late to do so." "I thank all of the groups that have been involved in this effort for their continued support. I also appreciate the willingness of State Representative George Grindley (R-Marietta) and others to take time away from their jobs and families to testify this morning. These hearings are part of a continuing effort by Barr and others to stop several recent intrusive government proposals. He has introduced legislation to stop federally-mandated standardization of state drivers' licenses, end a move to create a national health identifier, and led the effort to halt FBI moves for new wiretapping authority and the ability to track cellular phone users and lawful gun owners. Barr, a former United States Attorney, serves on the House Judiciary and Government Reform Committees. --30-- BACK TO PRESS RELEASES BACK TO MEDIA INFORMATION BACK TO MAIN PAGE > ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Thu Oct 1 03:50:02 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 18:50:02 +0800 Subject: IP: [Part 1 & 2] THE IMPERIAL PRESIDENCY By David M. Bresnahan Message-ID: <199810012350.QAA00551@netcom13.netcom.com> From: Kepi Subject: IP: [Part 1 & 2] THE IMPERIAL PRESIDENCY By David M. Bresnahan Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 23:37:09 -0500 To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com For those who may have missed this report; all others, please disregard. Kepi <>< ...................... >X-Sender: cabhop at mail.highfiber.com >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) >Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 11:57:22 -0600 >To: (Recipient list suppressed) >From: Robert Huddleston >Subject: THE IMPERIAL PRESIDENCY [ Part 1 & 2 ] By David M. Bresnahan > > >http://www.worldnetdaily.com/exclusiv/980929.exbre_clintons_secr.html >http://www.worldnetdaily.com/exclusiv/980930_exbre_clintons_secr.html > >SEPTEMBER 29 & 30, 1998 > > >THE IMPERIAL PRESIDENCY >Clinton's secret war games >He's scheming for strike to make him international hero > > >This is the first of a two-part series on the >revelations of military computer expert Curt Tomlin. > >By David M. Bresnahan >Copyright 1998, WorldNetDaily.com > >President Bill Clinton is playing war games >on a top secret computer to come up with a >way to be an international hero, according to >the man who designed the system. > >According to Rev. Curt Tomlin, a former >member of the battle staff of both presidents >John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson, >Clinton is a desperate man who is like an >animal trapped in a corner. He will do >anything to regain his credibility and deflect >criticism from his impending impeachment >hearings, he says. He also is driven by his >desire to create a positive legacy of his time in >the White House, according to various >reports. > >Clinton's motivations are dangerous to the >security of our nation, according to Tomlin. It >was Tomlin who designed and perfected the >Pentagon's first war games computer system, >the top secret "Single Integrated Operating Procedure." > >The "SIOP" computer is a method of targeting >a military attack and evaluating the most >likely response to that attack, according to >Tomlin. Highly classified intelligence >information is gathered from all over the >world by the CIA and other sources, placed in >the computer, and then accessed by Clinton to >play his own personal war games. > >"The decisions he's making right now are >totally illogical and irresponsible," Tomlin >told WorldNetDaily in an exclusive interview. >"Looking at the power and everything he's got >at his finger tips. That's a dangerous situation >for a spastic individual." > >Tomlin has maintained silence about the top >secret program for many years. He has been >called out of retirement three times and has >served in the Navy, Air Force, and Army for a >combined total of just over 24 years. He has >also been hired by government contractors to >assist in computer intelligence systems >designed to improve security for military >computer systems. > >"I could be sticking my neck on the chopping >block for a number of reasons," said Tomlin of >his decision to make his information public. >"Number one is, I'm still under some lifetime >restrictions on security clearances. For >example two of the clearances I had above top >secret was ESI and category 7 and 9. That was >three above that. Those are lifetime. So I have >to be a little bit careful about what I put in >print. I think people have to be aware of this, >regardless of the consequences on my end. I >feel that I would be guilty of the military >crime of negligence of duty if I did not bring >this to somebody's attention," explained >Tomlin. > >Clinton had tried to become an international >hero by destroying hundreds of terrorists >being trained by Osama bin Laden in >Afghanistan and a chemical weapons plant in >Sudan. Those two missile attacks were chosen >through use of the SIOP computer to which >Clinton has access, according to Tomlin. > >The computer predicted the result of the >attacks would bring about the death of >hundreds of terrorist forces and eliminate a >chemical weapons factory. Someone >intervened to change the results, according to >an intelligence source who spoke only on >condition of anonymity. > >Reports in European newspapers after the >attacks by Clinton corroborate what that >source claimed. "There were no dead >terrorists, and the chemical weapons plant >was an innocent pharmaceutical plant. Instead >of being a hero, Clinton is an international >laughing stock. The terrorists were tipped off >and cleared the area. The real chemical >weapons plant was two miles away. It was a >combination of bad intelligence and >purposeful intervention," said the source. > >Clinton has been searching the SIOP system >ever since the failure in an effort to find >another opportunity to prove himself to the >world and become the international hero he >envisions for his legacy, according to the >source. Tomlin agrees. > >"There's no choice. He's either going to sink or >try again. We can look for some very >unpleasant responses, depending on the >target he chooses," says Tomlin. > >When Clinton actually succeeds at inflicting >damage to a group of international terrorists, >many experts believe there will be swift and >deadly retaliation. Americans are in danger of >massive chemical and biological attacks in >major metropolitan areas, as well as similar >attacks on large military bases. >Tomlin says he is personally aware of >unprotected water supplies to domestic >military bases that could provide terrorists an >opportunity to poison the drinking water >used by most of the nation's military. >"When you contaminate a water supply ... >that's almost beyond my comprehension," he >remarked. The open borders of the United >States make it a simple process for terrorists >to come into the country and bring their >weapons of mass destruction with them >without detection," he says. "They can come >and go as they please with any kind of cargo. >That border is literally wide open, regardless >of what INS tells you," warned Tomlin. > >Tomlin believes there are many terrorist >agents already located in the United States >waiting for orders to strike. Other sources >have independently confirmed that claim but >were unwilling to be identified. > >"There's no doubt that the U.S. is currently in >the greatest danger of massive domestic >attack from an external enemy than ever >before in our nation's history," agreed one >intelligence source who is equally concerned >about Clinton pushing such terrorists to the >point to massive retaliation. "They just need >an excuse," he said. > >"Of course, the president has available to him >an awesome military force that he can use to >launch a first strike on any target in the >world," explained Tomlin of the top secret >system available to Clinton. "One of the things >I have been real concerned about recently is >the type of response that we can expect from >these various targets that the president can >choose from. For example, if he chose to hit >target A, the computer system would come >back and tell him what kind of response he >can expect. Will that response be in the nature >of an explosive response like blowing up an >embassy? Will it be in the form of a chemical >or biological response, or a combination of the >two? And it will also tell him, will the >response be a psychological or political >response, or a combination of any of these? In >other words, the system will come back and >tell him exactly what he can expect the owners >of that target to do in retaliation," explained >Tomlin, the father of that real-life computer >war game. > >"We got an awful lot of our information >through CIA on site sources where these >various targets were located," Tomlin says. >"We could tell you anything you wanted to >know about that target. How thick the walls >were, if it were a structure, how far under >ground it goes. How many megatons of >explosives it would take to wipe it out totally, >or give you 50 percent destruction, or 75 >percent destruction. We could just tell you >anything you wanted to know about that >target." >The highly advanced computer system as >well as the automated launch and attack >systems enable Clinton to initiate an attack >without the knowledge of very many other >individuals. Such decisions could be made by >Clinton alone, or with just a few political >advisers. Military and security advisers could >be left in the dark. > >"That's what bothers me today," says Tomlin. >"Given the fact that the man in the White >House now has his finger on the trigger, and >he can launch those forces which still consist >of atomic warheads on any intercontinental >ballistic missile. He can create a situation that >could be very detrimental to this country. >There are certain things that I'm really >concerned about at this point in time >concerning the highly probable responses that >the president can expect as the result of >striking certain targets." > >With SIOP, Clinton can sit at his private >computer and play war games until he finds >the situation he likes best. He can literally >type in various attacks around the world and >the SIOP computer will tell him what will be >the likely results of such an attack. With the >push of a button he can turn the computer >simulation he likes best into reality. > >"The ones I am concerned about now is the >possibility of a chemical or biological >response to a specific strike that he would >initiate," said Tomlin of his fear. "Simply >because an explosive response is limited in >scope. It's a token. It's a warning. But when >you drop a very small amount of biological or >chemical agents into the water supply of a >large city of Dallas or Houston, my friend, we >have a problem in that area. You can bring >these agents through customs on our southern >border almost undetected. There's just very >little possibility of these things being detected >coming through Customs or just walking >across the border in a deserted area." > >Tomlin created the SIOP computer back in >1963 when he served on the Kennedy battle >staff. He continued to serve on the Johnson >battle staff as well. Since then he has helped >the military work on numerous top secret >defense projects and information systems. > >Tomlin did his work in the top secret >underground "site R," as well as in the >Pentagon war room. His work was considered >so critical that he had a 24-hour armed Marine >guard watching over him. > >Although Tomlin is now retired, he still lives >by Fort Hood in Texas and has many >neighbors who are current and former >military. He claims there are many who are >getting out of the service because of Clinton. > >"Unfortunately," says Tomlin, "that's the >sentiment that is running rampant among >military people in this area. If you cannot >trust your leader, then we have a problem. >This man cannot be trusted. They are >deserting (their careers). I'm talking about our >combat experienced veterans. They're giving >up 18 years, 17 years and so forth and getting >out because they can no longer trust their >leader. They don't want to be a part of what he >might create." >Tomlin expects Clinton to launch an attack >very soon that will bring devastating >domestic retaliation to the U.S. >"If I were still on active duty, either as an >enlisted man or as a commissioned officer, >knowing what I know now, looking at all of >the information I have available to me, I >would have no choice but to resign my >commission or terminate my enlistment >simply because there is no way that I could >now trust my commander in chief," said Tomlin. > >THE IMPERIAL PRESIDENCY >Clinton's secret war games -- part 2 >He has the power to disable electronics >anywhere in the world > >This is the second of a two-part series on Clinton's secret >war games and the concerns of the man who helped invent >them. > >By David M. Bresnahan >Copyright 1998, WorldNetDaily.com >We are living in a new age of electronic warfare >which could make every electrical device from >military tanks to clock radios inoperative, according >to one of the people responsible for such weapons >systems. > >President Bill Clinton could enter a few key strokes >on a computer and selectively disable all electronics >anywhere in the world, including within the U.S., >using a top secret satellite system known as "LEO." >That ability is not unique to the U.S., however. Other >countries and even terrorists could knock out >electronics equipment anywhere in the world. > >Rev. Curt Tomlin, 65, is a retired Army major with 24 >years combined service in the Navy, Air Force, and >Army. He was a member of the battle staff for the >Kennedy and Johnson administrations and >developed top secret computer systems for the >Pentagon. His unique expertise prompted the >military to bring him out of retirement three times to >put his skills to use in the development of war >games computers, security computer systems and >the testing of electronics warfare. >Tomlin gave an exclusive interview to >WorldNetDaily to express his concerns about >national security. He says the U.S. is in grave danger >because of a president who is desperate to hang on >to his position of power at all cost. > >In an exclusive WorldNetDaily article yesterday, >Tomlin detailed his fears that Clinton is using a war >games computer to find a new target he can attack. >Clinton's goal, according to Tomlin, is to become an >international hero. Tomlin, who created the nation's >first computer war game system, known as "SIOP," >for the Pentagon, fears that Clinton's actions will >bring devastating retaliation from terrorists who are >just waiting for an excuse to activate their plan of >domestic attack against the U.S. > >Although Tomlin believes the greatest danger to the >U.S. is from biological and chemical weapons, he is >also concerned about electronic warfare. Tomlin >believes Clinton is very upset with a large portion of >the nation that wants him impeached. He says >Clinton is planning a way to get back at his enemies >in a big way. > >"This man (Clinton) is extremely vindictive and he's >going to get back at the country one way or another," >said Tomlin, who is also concerned about Clinton's >recent attempt to use the SIOP computer to attack >alleged terrorist sites in Afghanistan and Sudan. >Tomlin believes new attacks are imminent in order >to turn the previous failure to damage the terrorists >into a major victory that will make Clinton an >international hero. > >Tomlin expects domestic retaliation from the next >attack by Clinton to be devastating. He says terrorists >are already in the U.S. awaiting orders to attack, a >claim supported by a recently intercepted fax sent >world wide to 5,000 "soldiers" loyal to Osama bin >Laden. The faxed order, reported in London and >Jerusalem newspapers recently, tells the terrorists to >be prepared to attack U.S. and Israel in four ways >very soon. >According to the fax, the attacks would be designed to > >Bring commercial airlines to a halt >Stop all maritime traffic >Occupy U.S. embassies around the world >Shut down U.S. banking > >Such actions would seem difficult to achieve, but >Tomlin says it would actually be easy to accomplish >with access to electronics warfare devices. Although >his greatest concern is chemical or biological attack, >he said he would not be surprised if the attack came >through electronics. Virtually everything from >military aircraft to TV remotes would be disabled, >according to Tomlin. >Tomlin was called out of retirement in 1995 to >participate in a top secret project. He worked in the >10th Mountain Division as a senior test plan analyst. > >"You know that your automobile has an electronic >ignition in it," explained Tomlin. "It also has a >computer inside that. Did you know that we can >immobilize every moving vehicle in this country >with a few key strokes of a computer, all at the same >time? > >"By using the LEO satellites," he described, "you can >disrupt the computers. You can stop that electronic >ignition. It's all electronically based. You can >interfere with it and stop it dead in it's tracks." > >Tomlin also worked on tests dealing with laser >technology and the global positioning system, but he >did not provide details of those tests or their >purpose. He did say the testing was extensive and >was all for military purposes. >It is clear that China and other countries have this >same technology, agreed Tomlin. He believes the >recent intercepted bin Laden fax is evidence that >terrorists have this same ability. Electronic warfare >would make all four of the stated goals easily attainable. > >Tomlin is risking legal action by the Pentagon for >revealing top secret information. That's a risk he says >he is willing to take because of the danger he >believes has been caused by an out-of-control president. > >"The decisions he's making right now are totally >illogical and irresponsible," said Tomlin about his >concerns regarding Clinton. "Looking at the power >and everything he's got at his finger tips. That's a >dangerous situation for a spastic individual." Tomlin >has maintained silence about the top secret program >for many years, but now he feels compelled to speak >out. > >"I could be sticking my neck on the chopping block >for a number of reasons," said Tomlin of his decision >to make his information public. "Number one is I'm >still under some lifetime restrictions on security >clearances. For example two of the clearances I had >above top secret was ESI and category 7 and 9. That >was three above that. Those are lifetime. So I have to >be a little bit careful about what I put in print. >"I think people have to be aware of this, regardless of >the consequences on my end. I feel that I would be >guilty of the military crime of negligence of duty if I >did not bring this to somebody's attention," >explained Tomlin. > >Is this all part of a planned conspiracy? Or is this a >president gone mad? Tomlin said he would not be >surprised by either scenario. > >"If that's the way it turns out, I will not be at all >surprised," he said. "When you put all of the pieces >of the puzzle together you see how it all fits together. > >"The ultimate end product of these programs the >government has been working on is to create a >generation of people who will readily accept sudden >and radical change without question, without >objection, and without opposition. That's the goal of >these programs in a nutshell. This is headed toward >a one-world government without any question >what-so-ever, he warns. These programs have been >going on for a long time. People need to pay >attention to what Outcome-Based Education is all >about, what Goals 2000 is all about, and these other >socialistic programs that are leading in this direction. >It's upon us," warned Tomlin. > >In recent years Tomlin has been teaching and writing >college courses dealing with electronic data >processing. He tells his students, "If you can think of >it, you can do it. Your only limitation is your own >imagination. There are no limitations when it comes >to electronics. > >"Y2K is going to be one of the biggest problems >you've ever seen in your life, coupled with the other >intentional (electronic) interferences we're talking >about." > >Tomlin says he entered a Navy competition back in >1963 for a mystery computer assignment. After two >weeks of competition with many others who wanted >the top secret, undisclosed position, Tomlin was >notified to pack his bags and report to the Pentagon. >"I had no idea what I would be doing until I walked >into the front door. I had to compete for that job. At >that time there were 700 of us in the Navy who had >shown specific talent and progress for designing >information and processing systems. That was Navy >wide because data processing was so new at that >time," explained Tomlin. > >"There was three places we worked out of. Site R, >which was the underground command post, the war >room in the Pentagon -- the JCS war room. We also >had a facility on the North Hampton, which was a >light cruiser. That was also the Presidents alternate >battle site on that cruiser. Later we also had a facility >on the U.S. Wright, which was a converted jeep >carrier from World War II." > >When he first arrived he was the youngest, 30, and >lowest ranked, petty officer, member of the Kennedy >battle staff. No one on the team knew just what they >wanted or expected from Tomlin, so he just observed >and tried to find ways to put his skills to use. > >"Nobody on the battle team was capable of telling >me what they wanted me to do," he said. "So I >iddled around there for a couple of weeks just >watching what the rest of the battle staff did during >their exercises and their presidential briefings and >stuff like that. Kind of with my hands in my pockets. >We had a worldwide battle exercise and I wandered >around the war room and watched them post the >status boards, the maps, and process the 'twixes' as >we called them back then. That's all the messages >and the strikes and the targets. Finally, I concluded >that these guys were doing this the hard way." >Tomlin, accompanied by his armed Marine guard >who was with him 24 hours a day, went to work in >the seclusion of his underground war room at site R. >He began putting together some very simple >procedures using IBM punch cards on the latest and >greatest computer 1963 technology had to offer. >Within just a few weeks another war game was >called and Tomlin was ready to show off his >creation, which he created totally on his own. > >"We had a war game, and while they were doing >heir thing out there, nobody paid any attention to >me and nobody knew I was around. So I went back >and I got copies of all the incoming data and I did >my thing and I threw my shoulders back one day >and just started posting the status boards and >everybody else -- all these lieutenant colonels and >colonels and brigadier generals and everybody else >-- were all gathered around the conference table and >somebody said, 'Tomlin what the hell are you >doing?' I said, 'Well, I'm plotting the results of these >various strikes.' And they said, 'Who told you to do >that?' I said, 'Nobody did.' > >"They got to looking at their conclusions and my >conclusions and they were identical. What took 30 or >40 folks for them to do, well I did it by myself in just >a matter of minutes," described Tomlin of his first >war games computer program. So that got their >attention, and that's where everything started. So the >next time around they used my computerized war >game, which was the first one the Department of >Defense ever had. Then later I got tasked to build a >system for the targets, and then the rate of >production for atomic weapons storage and >accountability, and all that good stuff. It just kind of >exploded (military computer assignments) from >there." > >The military had never called retirees back into >full-time active duty until they needed Tomlin >during the Gulf War. They needed him and didn't >have a policy in place that enabled them to bring him >back, pay him, and give him credit towards his >retirement benefits. >Tomlin is listed as a military resource with critical >skills, so the government made the necessary >changes in policy and got him back for a full year of >service. During that time he worked in the national >records center in St. Louis, MO, to install new >computer systems and redesign internal security for >6.9 million records. The commercial company he >worked with to accomplish the task is owned by >Ross Perot, he pointed out. >As the pioneer of computerized war games, and >other information systems, Tomlin is obviously >proud of his work. He is speaking out because he >believes Clinton is a desperate man trying to save his >position of power at any cost. He believes Clinton is >not acting rationally and is about to subject the U.S. >to grave danger from international terrorists. Tomlin >says he is willing to accept the personal risk he is >taking by revealing sensitive information about >military systems and capabilities. > >Tomlin, is now a minister, and is the director of the >Christian Alert Network. He devotes his time to >informing pastors and concerned Christians of >problems he sees in government schools. He actively >promotes home schooling, private schools and >reform of public schools, which he says are being >used by the government to manipulate the beliefs of >children and take away parental rights. > >"The primary purpose of the Christian Alert Network >(TCAN)," states his web page, "is to inform >individual Christian citizens on specific situations >that adversely impact upon our basic Christian >doctrine, religious freedom and traditional families >and to encourage them to participate in the >governmental process, in obedience to the Holy >Scriptures and according to the intent of our >Founding Fathers." > > > > > > David Bresnahan, a WorldNetDaily contributing editor, >hosts "Talk USA Investigative Reports" and is the author >of "Cover Up: The Art and Science of Political Deception." > His email address is David at talkusa.com. > > > > > > <@{{>< <@{{>< <@{{>< <@{{>< <@{{>< <@{{>< <@{{>< > >SOCIALIST > 1. socialism > ( Noun ] > : social organization based on goverment control of the >production and distribution of goods. > ***** > "Gun registration is not enough." > Attorney General Janet Reno, > December 10,1993 (Associated Press) > > "Waiting periods are only a step. > Registration is only a step. > The prohibition of private firearms is the goal." > - Janet Reno > >************************************************* >"But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet to >warn the people and the sword comes and takes the life of one of them, that >man will be taken away because of his sin, but I will hold the watchman >accountable for his blood." >Ezekiel 33:6 (NIV) >___________________________________________________________ >New toll-free hotline to Congress >Congress is making a new toll-free number available for >citizens who would like to make their voices heard in >Washington. 1-800-504-0031 >Ask for your Congressman office and let him know >what you think............. >--------------------------------------------------------------- >Join Gun Owners of America [ GOA ] today. >Read more about GOA at : http://www.gunowners.org/ >-------------------------------------------------------------- >Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership (JPFO) >Become a JPFO member, go to: http://www.jpfo.org/member.htm >There you will see a printable member application, along with >info on membership Membership IS open to ALL Law >abiding citizens. >--------------------------------------------------------------- > > ><@{{>< <@{{>< <@{{>< <@{{>< <@{{>< <@{{>< <@{{>< > > > > > > ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From petro at playboy.com Thu Oct 1 03:50:40 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 18:50:40 +0800 Subject: EduFUD: Computers, software can harm emotional, socialdevelopment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 6:07 PM -0500 10/1/98, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote: >the whole image of parents limiting how much their children >can surf the net is quite amusing to me. it's like trying >to push a river. Would you say the same thing about television? As much of a fan of Computers, reading, and education as I am, I also think kids need "peer interaction", and "physical exercise", as strange as those things may sound to people. Yes, our current school system is based on the "Factory" workflow, show up at x time, take your place on the production line, plug square holes on top of round pegs for 7.5 hours, and then go home. On the otherhand sticking children in Veal Pens for 6 hours a day isn't the answer. Our children don't need computers nearly as much as they need teachers who can speak and write properly. Good typing skills are no substitue for a good brain. Our children don't need computers nearly as much as they need teachers who can explain algebra and geometery. I don't care how well you can program your HP-48, you have to know WHICH, WHEN, and WHY to use certain formulas. Wiring the schools to the internet is not about education, it's about control and lazy teachers. Finding information is easy, processing it--sorting, labeling, priortizing & etc--are what the schools should be teaching. >oh, the terror! kids might even get bored with our cultures 2 great >opiates: sports and entertainment. who knows what will >happen then? tyranny is held in place by frivolous and >meaningless pastimes and amusements in our world. It seems that more and more "kids" are giving themselves over to those two opiates. >fortunately, PCs and the internet are now an unstoppable >force. we will see soon what happens when it meets many Y2K just might stop it dead in it's tracks. -- petro at playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy. petro at bounty.org-----for everthing else. They wouldn't like that. They REALLY Economic speech IS political speech. wouldn't like that. From vznuri at netcom.com Thu Oct 1 03:51:19 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 18:51:19 +0800 Subject: Casio Computer offers 1,000,000 Yen encryption challenge Message-ID: <199810012350.QAA00525@netcom13.netcom.com> From: William Knowles Subject: Casio Computer offers 1,000,000 Yen encryption challenge Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 15:35:45 -0700 (PDT) To: cryptography at c2.net TOKYO, Sept. 25 /PRNewswire/ -- CASIO COMPUTER CO., LTD. announces development of the MDSR (Multi-Dimensional Space Rotation) encryption system for Internet and Intranet data. MDSR is a new encryption system designed to meet the need for high-level digital data security, which has been generated with the growth of the Internet and Intranets. The encryption system used by MDSR is based on Multi-Dimensional Space Rotation (MDSR) and Time-Dependent Multi-Dimensional Space Rotation (MDSR-TD). The main features of this encryption system are: the larger the space dimension the more difficult it is to break the code, no special hardware requirements for encryption or decryption, and the ability to narrowly regulate hierarchy and decryption privileges. The result is an encryption system that provides versatile private data management, confidential mail security, and security for data sent to multiple destinations. Since MDSR also enhances security for data on an Internet server, it is also suitable for use by system administrators and Internet Service Providers. The contest that is detailed on the CASIO Home Page starts from September 24, with a cash prize for the person who successfully breaks a message encoded with MDSR. CASIO plans to use MDSR in future CASIO data communication products. Contest Details Term: September 26, 1998 to November 26, 1998 (JST) Encrypted Text: Visit the CASIO Website for details. http://www.casio.co.jp/en/ [WK Note: 1,000,000 Yen is worth $7344.84 U.S.D.] == I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in cases of oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate commerce. -- J. Edgar Hoover == http://www.dis.org/erehwon/ From vznuri at netcom.com Thu Oct 1 03:51:30 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 18:51:30 +0800 Subject: IP: Europe's Echelon eavesdropping exposed Message-ID: <199810012350.QAA00562@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Europe's Echelon eavesdropping exposed Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 10:18:09 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com Source: Wired http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/15295.html Eavesdropping on Europe by Niall McKay 4:00 a.m.30.Sep.98.PDT If the European Parliament has its way, the lid is about to come off what is reputedly one of the most powerful, secretive, and extensive spy networks in history -- if, in fact, it really exists. In October, Europe's governing body will commission a full report into the workings of Echelon, a global network of highly sensitive listening posts operated in part by America's most clandestine intelligence organization, the National Security Agency. "Frankly, the only people who have any doubt about the existence of Echelon are in the United States," said Glyn Ford, a British member of the European Parliament and a director of Scientific and Technical Options Assessment, or STOA, a technology advisory committee to the parliament. Echelon is reportedly able to intercept, record, and translate any electronic communication -- telephone, data, cellular, fax, email, telex -- sent anywhere in the world. The parliamentary report will focus on concerns that the system has expanded and is now zeroed in on the secrets of European companies and elected officials. The parliament is alarmed at reports of Echelon's impressive capabilities, and during a debate on 19 September, the European Union called for accountability. The parliament stressed that the NSA and the Government Communications Headquarters, which jointly operate Echelon, must adopt measures to guard against the system's abuse. International cooperation on law enforcement is important, Ford said, but there are limits. "We want to establish a code of conduct for the systems to protect EU citizens and governments." Across the Atlantic, Patrick Poole, deputy director for the Free Congress Foundation, a conservative Washington think tank, is preparing a report on Echelon to present to Republican members of Congress. "I believe it's time we start to bring this matter to our elected officials," he said. Poole and Ford have their work cut out for them: Neither Britain nor the United States will admit that Echelon even exists. The NSA declined any comment on a series of faxed questions for this story. Keyword: Bomb Over the years, enough information has leaked to suggest that the spy network is more than science fiction. Echelon came to the attention of the EU Parliament following a report commissioned by STOA last year. "Unlike many of the electronic spy systems developed during the Cold War, Echelon is designed for primarily non-military targets: governments, organizations, and businesses in virtually every country," the report said. According to the STOA report and stories in The New York Times, The Daily Telegraph, and The Guardian, Echelon consists of a network of listening posts, antenna fields, and radar stations. The system is backed by computers that use language translation, speech recognition, and keyword searching to automatically sift through telephone, email, fax, and telex traffic. The system is principally operated by the NSA and the GCHQ, but reportedly also relies on cooperation with "signals intelligence" operations in other countries, including the Communications Security Establishment of Canada, Australia's Defense Signals Directorate, and New Zealand's Government Communications Security Bureau. John Pike, a security analyst for the Federation of American Scientists, said each of the five government agencies takes responsibility for its own geographical region. Each agency reportedly maintains a glossary of keywords. If Echelon intercepts a transmission containing a word or phrase contained in the glossary -- bomb, for example -- the full conversation, email, or fax is recorded and shared among the agencies. "Echelon intercepts Internet traffic at the transport layer, such as the TCP/IP layer, so the system doesn't care too much what it is or where it came from," said Pike. "For analog traffic, such as telephone conversations, it uses automatic voice-recognition technology to scan the conversations." Abuses of Power? While the EU is aware that Echelon may be a useful tool for tracking down global terrorists, drug barons, and international criminals, Ford said the parliament is concerned that the system may also be used for espionage, spying on peaceful nations, or gaining unfair economic advantage over non-member nations. Indeed, there are many reported instances of the British and US intelligence agencies working together to gather information in a questionable manner. A 1993 BBC documentary about NSA's Menwith Hill facility in England revealed that peace protestors had broken into the installation and stolen part of this glossary, known as "the Dictionary." The documentary alleged that Menwith Hill -- a sprawling installation covering 560 acres and employing more than 1,200 people -- was Echelon's nerve center. Further evidence emerged last year, when British Telecom told a court that it provides high-bandwidth telecommunications into the Menwith Hill facility and from the facility to the United States, using a transatlantic fiber-optic network. "I believe that these five intelligence agencies are working from a single plan," said Pike. British investigative journalist Duncan Campbell was the first to report about Echelon in a 1988 article in The New Statesman. He believes that there is a very thin line between intelligence gathering and commercial espionage. Pike, of the Federation of American Scientists, believes the intelligence agencies operate in a gray area of international law. For example, there is no law prohibiting the NSA from intercepting telecommunications and data traffic in the United Kingdom and no law prohibiting GCHQ from doing the same thing in the United States. "The view by the NSA seems to be anything that can be intercepted is fair game," said Pike. "And it's very hard to find out what, if any, restraints can be employed." ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Thu Oct 1 04:18:00 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 19:18:00 +0800 Subject: IP: Clear and present danger: FIGHT AGAINST NATIONAL ID CARD (fwd) Message-ID: <199810020019.TAA22375@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Subject: IP: Clear and present danger: FIGHT AGAINST NATIONAL ID CARD > Date: Thu, 01 Oct 98 16:50:32 -0700 > From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" > "Our Founding Fathers intended to create a system with > division of > power between three branches of government and between > the state and > federal governments in order to protect our rights. Three branches of government? Between the state and federal? I don't think so... There are *THREE* (3) EQUALY powered members in the government of the United States of America; federal, state, and the people. The federal level is split into three seperate branches, they as single entitities are NOT the federal government. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- We, the People of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding. ARTICLE IX. The enumeration of the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. ARTICLE X. The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jya at pipeline.com Thu Oct 1 04:34:18 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 19:34:18 +0800 Subject: DTRA, Terrorism, Digital Daily Message-ID: <199810020026.UAA06931@dewdrop2.mindspring.com> DoD rolled out today the new Defense Threat Reduction Agency which combines several agencies -- Defense Special Weapons Agency, Defense Technology Security Administration, On-Site Inspection Agency and others -- into a new organization whose principle purpose will be to control the spread of technologies of mass destruction. See remarks made at the opening ceremony by Hamre and others: http://jya.com/dtra100198.htm And the new, informative DTRA Web site: http://www.dtra.mil The briefing remarks are of interest for what they disclose about military planning for combating domestic terrorism (parallel to what the FBI said about it yesterday), promises to speed export licensing and a passing reference by Hamre to "a recent ten month process of encryption policy review." Which may refer to the recent administration policy announcement or maybe another in the works. With the build-up of domestic terrorism fighting forces -- all the mil and gov agencies -- and noises about legislation being developed for more, it's worth pondering what is coming with a crackdown on domestic use of encryption. The Canadian duplicitous announcement today may offer a clue to what's being secretly agreed upon internationallly: state there will be no domestic controls (to assure privacy and secure commerce) coupled with promises to ease export limits (to assure commercial producers), then contradict that with a statement about new legislation to criminalize encryption use in the name of "public safety" and provision for access to encrypted data (to assure national security and law enforcement). Tell all parties what they want to hear in public, then arrange for what's really going to happen in secrecy among those responsible parties who know how to bear the terrible burden of keeping society safe and sound. Which brings up Time's new "Digital Daily" replacement for Netley News. News seems to have been eliminated in favor of entertaining fluff and product promo, even worse than "mainstream" Time itself. What's up Declan? Has the ghost of Luce come back to order Time online to shut up reporting unpleasant nefaria and get on with narcotizing the masses via Luce's incomparable coy language of insider duplicity? From mgering at ecosystems.net Thu Oct 1 05:03:52 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 20:03:52 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A19284725@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com> I wrote: > > Show me an example of an unregulated coercive monopoly > > whose source of monopoly power is not ultimately the > > government. Jim Choate answered: > The Mafia. The handful of world-class coke dealers. Your local church. The church had a monopoly on religion. Not any more. When it had it was supported by the state or by its own use of force. The other two organizations use force to maintain their monopoly, and again both are supported indirectly (sometimes more directly than we like to think) by the state. The state prohibits free competition, it is a black market. When I talk of a free market I man Laissez Faire Capitalism, not Anarcho-Capitalism. The abolition of force is a requisite (and the only proper role of government). A large company can maintain a monopoly by force (more often than not the government is the instrument of force, the legalization of coercive monopoly power). Matt From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Thu Oct 1 05:19:30 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 20:19:30 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <199810020122.UAA22791@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: Matthew James Gering > Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) > Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 18:01:23 -0700 > I wrote: > > > Show me an example of an unregulated coercive monopoly > > > whose source of monopoly power is not ultimately the > > > government. > > Jim Choate answered: > > The Mafia. The handful of world-class coke dealers. Your local church. > > The church had a monopoly on religion. Churches monopolize faith (but let's not go there). > Not any more. Tell that to the Isreali's and the Arab's, the Serbs and the Slav's, The Hutu's and the whoever they are I can't think of at the moment, the Irish Protestants and Catholics, etc., etc., ad nausium... When it had it was > supported by the state or by its own use of force. The other two force is one form of coercion, faith can be another. > organizations use force to maintain their monopoly, and again both are > supported indirectly (sometimes more directly than we like to think) by > the state. The state prohibits free competition, it is a black market. A free-market is defined as consisting of the supplier and the consumer without a regulatory body. It doesn't prohibit a third group *wanting* to regulate that market. Or of either the producer or consumer using violence to prevent it. > When I talk of a free market I man Laissez Faire Capitalism, not > Anarcho-Capitalism. What's the specific difference? What is the fundamental litmus test between a Laisez Faire and a Anarcho? In one case there is no recognized arch to be had to regulate the market and in the other the third party simply opts out of participating. In what way are the resulting markets different from either the producers or consumers view? > The abolition of force is a requisite (and the only > proper role of government). Explain further what you mean by abolition of force is a prerequisite please. And what specificaly do you mean by proper role of government? ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Thu Oct 1 05:49:10 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 20:49:10 +0800 Subject: [Fwd: Fw: Court Strikes Down Federal Mandates Again] Message-ID: <199810020151.UAA22894@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > While I have not found this case decision posted anywhere but in this > usenet posting, I have found some background info: > http://www.rcfp.org/NMU/961216b.html > Local Sovereignty Update > US Court Again Upholds State Sovereignty and Strikes Down Federal = > Mandate > This month we have another case in which the federal courts have = > recognized that the federal government has no authority to impose any = > mandate on state or local government. > Printz v. US ruled that '[t]he Federal Government may neither issue = > directives requiring the States to address particular problems, nor = > command the States' officers, or those of their political subdivisions, = > to administer or enforce a federal regulatory program.' That across = > the board prohibition is simply being applied to various federal = > mandates one after the other.=20 > =20 > CONDON v US, Decided: September 3, 1998 =20 > > =20 > In 1994 Congress passed the Driver's Privacy Protection Act (DPPA), = > which tried to set federal standards governing how and when information = > in driving records could be released. The DPPA said that "Any State = > department of motor vehicles that has a policy or practice of = > substantial noncom- pliance . . . shall be subject to a civil penalty = > imposed by the Attorney General of not more than $5,000 a day."=20 > =20 > South Carolina, joined by several other states, refused to implement the = > Driver's Privacy Protection Act (DPPA), and sued the Federal government = > in US Court demanding that the law be recognized by the federal courts = > as a violation of the Tenth and Eleventh Amendments to the United States = > Constitution. > =20 > The Fourth Circuit Court struck down DPPA ruling that > > > "Under our system of dual sovereignty, "[t]he powers not delegated to = > the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the = > States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." U.S. = > Const. amend. X. Because Congress lacked the authority to enact the DPPA = > under either the Commerce Clause or Section 5 of the Fourteenth = > Amendment, we affirm the judgment of the district court." > > > The Court also stated plainly that: "Congress may not enact any law that = > would direct the functioning of the States' executives or legislatures." = > > > Citing the New York and Printz cases the court said that the Supreme = > Court's ruling with respect to federal mandates "has been a model of = > consistency."=20 > > Some of the more important quotes from the case follow: > > > In New York v. United States, 505 U.S. 144 (1992) the Supreme Court = > held that Congress could not "commandeer[ ] the legislative processes of = > the States by directly compelling them to enact and enforce a federal = > regulatory program." ... In Printz v. US the court held "that Congress = > cannot circumvent that prohibition by conscripting the State's officers = > directly." Id. at 2384. The Court went on to note that '[t]he Federal = > Government may neither issue directives requiring the States to address = > particular problems, nor command the States' officers, or those of their = > political subdivisions, to administer or enforce a federal regulatory = > program.' " > =20 > > "The Supreme Court, in both New York and Printz, has made it perfectly = > clear that the Federal Government may not require State officials to = > administer a federal regulatory program." > > > "Although Congress has regulated the disclosure of personal information = > by some private parties, the Constitution permits Congress to regulate = > the conduct of individuals. In contrast, Congress may not, as a general = > matter, regulate the conduct of the States. See New York, 505 U.S. at = > 166 ("[T]he Framers explicitly chose a Constitution that confers upon = > Congress the power to regulate individuals, not States." (quoted with = > approval in Printz, 117 S. Ct. at 2377)). " > > "The United States also contends that the DPPA was properly enacted = > pursuant to Congress's power under Section 5 of the Four- teenth = > Amendment. In light of the Supreme Court's landmark decision in City of = > Boerne v. Flores, 117 S. Ct. 2157 (1997), we are constrained to = > disagree." > > Congress's power to enact legislation under the Fourteenth Amendment is = > not unlimited, however. See, e.g. , City of Boerne v. Flores, 117 S. Ct. = > 2157, 2171 (1997) (holding that the Religious Freedom Restoration Act is = > "a considerable congressional intrusion into the States' traditional = > prerogatives," and that Congress exceeded its power under the Fourteenth = > Amendment in enacting the statute); Gregory v. Ashcroft, 501 U.S. 452, = > 469 (1991) (stating that "the Four- teenth Amendment does not override = > all principles of federalism"); Oregon v. Mitchell, 400 U.S. 112, 128 = > (1970) (noting that "[a]s broad as the congressional enforcement power = > is, it is not unlimited"). For instance, Congress's power "extends only = > to enforc[ing] the provi- sions of the Fourteenth Amendment." City of = > Boerne, 117 S. Ct. at 2164 (emphasis added) (internal quotation marks = > omitted). Of perhaps equal importance, it is only a preventative or = > remedial power, not a substantive power. See id. at 2167. As a result, = > Congress does not possess "the power to determine what constitutes a = > constitutional violation." Id. at 2164.=20 > > > "neither the Supreme Court nor this Court has ever found a = > constitutional right to privacy with respect to the type of information = > found in motor vehicle records. Accordingly, Congress did not have the = > authority under Section 5 of the Fourteenth Amendment to enact the = > DPPA." ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody at replay.com Thu Oct 1 05:55:47 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 20:55:47 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199810020148.DAA30780@replay.com> Mr. Hettinga Bostoned: >True enough. The water runs off the mountains *into* most of Death Valley, >not *out* of it. The Totos > Todt An experience not to be missed is walking on the boiling water that collects at the lowest hottest point of the US. The encrusted mineral deposits left as the moisture evaporates create a hurricanic wreckcape of razor sharp crystals and suffocating stench in 120-degree+ summer heat -- yourself abarbeque. Not far away is where rocks moonwalk across the flat landscape, leaving astronautic tracks of their movement which has not yet been explained by NASA investigators, all unawares pancaked by their implacable specimens heading home for Jupiter. Then there's the nearby location where earth's gravity is not perpendicular, and all vegetation is angled exactly to fit the cant. When you step into the gavitational field you tip like Pisa's Tower obeying the pull. Some learned idiots say this is due to undergound deposits of metallic ore or a chunk of Mars. (There are several such sites around the US, one the Pentagon Parking Lot East, where the levitators worked the 1969 liftoff). All this perfectly tunes in to crypto channel because it is from Death Valley that our film crew returned today from shooting the Toto Family, not CJ's family but the band of creatures who gypsy under The Toto Mantle (TTM). Yes, they are ghoulish beyond ancestor-vulgar Pacific Rim loathsome, but that is not what cracked up us TransAtlanticists. It was watching the whole crew of TTMs simultaneously, in concert, keening and hair strumming, produce encrypted text, each contributing algorithmicly single alpha numerical digits, plink A, plonk 2, plunk %, in perfect signed PGP, bypassing incluement grammatical plaintext, EZ-guessable PWs and crackerjacktoy keys to issue pure incomprehensibility which could be instantaneously decrypted by an incomprehending viewer barechest-lathered with Death Valley Vapor Rub(DVVR) (TM-TTM). There is this, too. Each TM-TTM rubber descoda was genuine, authentic, narcotic, immimicable, that is certain from the Radiant Glow of Ego ID Superego Transcendence that erases the codebarer barefooting meatslicing mineral deposits, bareback riding walking rocks, bare-ass leaning into the fully exposed future disclosed in the deathseeking porno-crypto-graphy of The Totos > Todt (TT>T). From jya at pipeline.com Thu Oct 1 06:10:55 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 21:10:55 +0800 Subject: Echelon's Origin Message-ID: <199810020204.WAA04835@dewdrop2.mindspring.com> The NSA released during the summer a Top Secret memorandum by Truman in 1952 establishing NSA as the lead COMINT agency for the USG: http://jya.com/nsa102452.htm After the dry description of decisionmaking procedures there are tantalizing pointers to the means NSA is to use to spy on foreign governments' communications, with reference to accommodating allies at NSA facilities -- read it carefully. Also, it's chilling to read that COMINT was so vital that Truman declared it to be free from any constraints placed on all other forms of intelligence. And the DIRNSA was given authority to command any military department or civilian agency for COMINT purposes It would be helpful to learn what superceded this memo for authority to engage in global COMINT. Yes, we accept anonymous contributions for COMINTers. Erich Moechel writes that France has its version of Echelon and wiretapping, and shares its fruits with Germany, in competition with the Echelon-Five. The French have built up an Echelon like wiretapping system of their own, operating from Dordogne (France), French Guayana & Nouvelle Caledonie. Would anyone have more information on this program? And what about other Echelons around the world? From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Thu Oct 1 06:49:33 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 21:49:33 +0800 Subject: INFO-RUSS: "Post-Soviet Science and Technology" class (fwd) Message-ID: <199810020250.VAA23198@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: >From INFO-RUSS-request at smarty.ece.jhu.edu Thu Oct 1 21:43:40 1998 Message-Id: <9810012329.AA25272 at smarty.ece.jhu.edu> Errors-To: INFO-RUSS-request at smarty.ece.jhu.edu Sender: INFO-RUSS-request at smarty.ece.jhu.edu Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 15:19:28 -0700 To: info-russ at smarty.ece.jhu.edu From: "Andrei G. Chakhovskoi" Subject: INFO-RUSS: "Post-Soviet Science and Technology" class --------------------------------------------------------------------- This is INFO-RUSS broadcast (1200+ subscribers). Home page, information, and archives: http://psi.ece.jhu.edu/~kaplan/IRUSS/inforuss.html To post, or to subscribe/unsubscribe, mail to info-russ at smarty.ece.jhu.edu INFO-RUSS assumes no responsibility for the information/views of its users. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear INFO-RUSS netters: I am teaching a class on "Post-Soviet Science and Technology" at the University of California at Davis. If you can share any information, personal experience, or if you can point to an information source relevant to the subject - please respond to the message below. This year, I begin teaching a class which talks about a recent history and up-to-date changes in science, technology and ecology in Russia and the republics of the former USSR. This class is more like an "experimental" effort to take a look at the current situation in scientific and technology field in former USSR. Being involved for many years in high-tech research in Russian Academy of Sciences as well as in several defense R&D institutions in Moscow and the vicinity, I am naturally interested to learn what is happening there now. Although I am working at UC Davis since 1992, I am still involved in a number of collaborative projects with my former Russian and Ukranian co-workers. I was sharing my thoughts about the situation in Soviet science and technology with my colleagues at UC Davis and Sandia NL, as well as with scientists at various forums and conferences; and I found that there is actually a big interest to this issue. Sometimes a spontaneous discussion has originated from these conversations, leading to an invitation to give a talk about the subject. People were interested to hear about current challenges and difficulties faced by Russian scientists as well as about intellectual and technological potential accumulated in Russia and former USSR countries. And always the audience was interested to hear more information and details than could be delivered in one single talk. After a few talks I decided to expand the effort and I approached the Teaching Resources Center at UC Davis with a proposal to originate an interdepartmental seminar on this subject. The idea was welcomed, and the seminar got approved for the Fall of 1998. Currently, this is one-quarter (8 weeks) seminar for a small group of students (15 people) from different specialities. Most of them are freshman who do not have chosen a major speciality yet. Depending the success of this seminar it may eventually grow into a bigger course. The exact title of this seminar is "The Effects of the Changing Economy on Technology and Ecology in Russia and New Independent Countries". The term "Changing Economy" here is not just economy but also implies "State and Political System". Although I will try to concentrate on science and technology more than on politics and economy, I afraid that it will be impossible to ignore political and economical issues, especially due to the recent crisis in Russia. Because of the nature of this seminar and the subject studied, there is no solid curriculum or a single book which can be used throughout the quarter. The students need to collect the most recent information from the Internet and periodicals and they are encouraged to study and compare different opinions obtained from various communication sources. I do have a growing collection of WEB-links and press documents relevant to the subject, but this collection is far from being complete. I will appreciate it if you can point to the WEB-links, to newsgroups which discuss relevant issues, or to documents which can be downloaded and used for this class. I will especially appreciate it if you have materials like photos, brief videos, documents, magazines, newspapers which you can loan or share for this seminar. If it involves copying expenses I can make copies of the materials and return the originals, or I can provide a reimbursement for copying/mailing expenses. All the materials will be used for educational purpose only, the source or the author of the material will be identified with a proper reference and acknowledgement. A very important part of this seminar is related to a personal experience shared by people who are working or used to work in this field. I will appreciate any documents of a personal matter - memories, stories which can be shared with the students. Also, I would like to invite interested parties to join a discussion as invited speakers. I would like to invite somebody who was involved in joint research/development projects between USA and Russia, who is working in the field related to technology transfer and international scientific collaboration, or who just has an experience working in high-tech field in Russia to share his/her experience and feelings. If anybody is living not very far from Davis, CA or traveling in Northern California in October/November - I would be extremely delighted if you find it possible to give a talk at this seminar. We meet each Tuesday between October 6 and November 24. Unfortunately, due to the size of the seminar the budget for this quarter is quite limited so I will not be able to offer you a generous honorarium, or fly you from New York or Boston, but at least I can reimburse you for the travel from San Francisco Bay area / Silicon Valley (about $ 50). Please e-mail me at chakhovs at ece.ucdavis.edu Thanks and best regards, Dr. Andrei G. Chakhovskoi Lecturer / Research Scientist University of California at Davis Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering From wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org Thu Oct 1 07:44:39 1998 From: wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org (Rabid Wombat) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 22:44:39 +0800 Subject: New California Spam Law is Bullshit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Got an actual cite for this, or better yet a url to the actual statute? On Wed, 30 Sep 1998, Tim May wrote: > At 6:43 PM -0700 9/30/98, Max Inux wrote: > >On Wed, 30 Sep 1998 2001files at usa.net wrote: > > > >Dear spammer, > > > >Nice threats are attached to this spam. I love new ideas from the > >spamming community. Please be aware by not including a real human email > >address (specifically stated) and a 1800 number to call to be removed, > >you are in violation of California law. > > Think twice before citing this new law.... > > Whatever one thinks about unsolicited e-mail, the provisions of this new > California bill are frightening to any supporter of liberty. > > * the requirement that mail have a "real" name attached to it runs afoul of > the right to anonymous messages, supported in various cases (Talley, for > example). A requirement that e-mail be identified is no different from a > requirement that pamphlets and articles have "real" names on them. So much > for the First Amendment. > > (Oh, and the _commercial_ nature of UCE has nothing to do with the First > Amendment issues, unless one thinks the canonical First case, Sullivan, is > meaningless because the New York Times was "commercial speech.") > > * think of the implications for anonymous messages, through remailers > > * and where does the "must have a toll-free number" bullshit come from? > Think about it. It may sound _nice_ to demand that people have toll-free > numbers, but where is the constitutional support for such a taking? > > And so on. > > --Tim May > > Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash. > ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- > Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, > ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero > W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, > Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. > > > > From tcmay at got.net Thu Oct 1 08:55:27 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 23:55:27 +0800 Subject: New California Spam Law is Bullshit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 12:20 AM -0700 9/30/98, Rabid Wombat wrote: >Got an actual cite for this, or better yet a url to the actual statute? > >On Wed, 30 Sep 1998, Tim May wrote: > >> At 6:43 PM -0700 9/30/98, Max Inux wrote: >> >On Wed, 30 Sep 1998 2001files at usa.net wrote: >> > >> >Dear spammer, >> > >> >Nice threats are attached to this spam. I love new ideas from the >> >spamming community. Please be aware by not including a real human email >> >address (specifically stated) and a 1800 number to call to be removed, >> >you are in violation of California law. It just got discussed on the CP list. Check yesterday's traffic. (No, I won't do this research. Not because I'm being a hardass, but because I deleted them after reading them.) --Tim May Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From cjh at osa.com.au Thu Oct 1 09:43:50 1998 From: cjh at osa.com.au (Clifford Heath) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 00:43:50 +0800 Subject: Randomness testing Message-ID: We have been asked by a customer if we have any tests that demonstrate the randomness of the SSLeay random number generator (augmented by some sound-card random number seeding that we wrote). I'd like to find some standard implementation for testing randomness, but Schneier offers no help (other than a reference to Knuth Vol 2), and I don't know where else to turn. I realise that cryptographic randomness requires unpredictability, and this quality depends upon closed-world assumptions about unknown individuals' predictive powers, but we have to live with that. -- Clifford Heath http://www.osa.com.au/~cjh Open Software Associates Limited mailto:cjh at osa.com.au 29 Ringwood Street / PO Box 4414 Phone +613 9871 1694 Ringwood VIC 3134 AUSTRALIA Fax +613 9871 1711 ------------------------------------------------------------ Deploy Applications across the net, see http://www.osa.com From jamesd at echeque.com Thu Oct 1 09:49:50 1998 From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 00:49:50 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) In-Reply-To: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A1928471D@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com> Message-ID: <199810020548.WAA02571@proxy3.ba.best.com> -- At 02:18 PM 10/1/98 -0500, Kevin Elliott wrote: > I'm afraid sir, that your ingonorance is showing. Pick up > any college (hell, high school) ecomonics textbook. > Certain types of businesses are inheritly advantagious to > monopolies. The electric company is the classic example- > their is no cost effective way for an electric company to > supply power to a given area unless it is a monopoly. > Certain types of businesses are suited to certain types of > competition, and, unregulated, monopolies are exactly what > you get. This was exactly the situation that occured at > the turn of the century and it happened because regulation > was non-existant! Bullshit. No monopoly has ever happened except by regulation I have no idea what you are referring to in your reference to the turn of the century. If you are referring to standard oil, you are parroting silly communist propaganda with no basis in reality. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG jeE+LNH/f8RnmYDChWQ48wf3pqRR6WcCMCJYSUXI 45eF2HkK+9DX6z7XPNhbGoHJc96S3SuJ9SBUnw+iJ ----------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state. http://www.jim.com/jamesd/����� James A. Donald From jamesd at echeque.com Thu Oct 1 09:50:16 1998 From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 00:50:16 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810012235.RAA21520@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199810020549.WAA04644@proxy3.ba.best.com> > > Show me an example of an unregulated coercive monopoly > > whose source of monopoly power is not ultimately the > > government. At 05:35 PM 10/1/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > The Mafia. The handful of world-class coke dealers. Your > local church In america the various mafias get plently of competition, mostly by means short of actual warfare. Coke is a free market except for police intervention, and the local church is most certainly not a monopoly. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG oGREc6gOTKaJiYcMP+JEyW9SUvzFpjz79BkXyfAM 4f+hqTPS/vPcpcTNefkMrftiYGG7rMXSAonNu7im6 ----------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state. http://www.jim.com/jamesd/����� James A. Donald From frantz at netcom.com Thu Oct 1 10:37:52 1998 From: frantz at netcom.com (Bill Frantz) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 01:37:52 +0800 Subject: Rain in Death Valley In-Reply-To: <000001bded72$f7c55000$8a2580d0@ibm> Message-ID: At 12:37 PM -0800 10/1/98, Robert Hettinga wrote: >At 3:37 PM -0400 on 10/1/98, X wrote: > > >> If the area you refer to is below sea-level, where would the hard-rains >> runoff run off to? > >True enough. The water runs off the mountains *into* most of Death Valley, >not *out* of it. Where it evaporates. Less than 10% humidity. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | If hate must be my prison | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | lock, then love must be | 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz at netcom.com | the key. - Phil Ochs | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA From nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl Thu Oct 1 10:38:55 1998 From: nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl (HyperReal-Anon) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 01:38:55 +0800 Subject: Increase Your Paycheck Next Week Message-ID: Hello, asshole: I'd just like to suggest that you fuck yourself with a large metal hook in all bodily cavities. As you are bleeding out, pour 12M nitric acid in your wounds and feel the burn. If you are still conscious, superglue your little finger in a centrifuge and turn it on at maximum speed. If you are still conscious, stick your head into a liquid nitrogen bath. All your coworkers should repeat this procedure. As an alternative, you can tie any coworkers you have up and bathe them in concentrated nitric acid while you shower them in NH4OH. Place your penis in liquid nitrogen and then attempt to jack off. Finally, drink a concentrated hydrochloric acid solution followed by concentrated sodium hydroxide solution. In the unlikely event that you are able to do so, scream 'I AM THE MASTER OF THE UNIVERSE!' over and over again while dancing until you pass out. I wave to Interpol. Hey Louis! What's shaking? Received: (from ichudov at localhost) by www.video-collage.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA01379 for cypherpunks-outgoing; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 12:03:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sirius.infonex.com (sirius.infonex.com [209.75.197.2]) by www.video-collage.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA01367 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 12:03:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from cpunks at localhost) by sirius.infonex.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA20785; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 09:07:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyberpass.net (cyberpass.net [209.75.197.3]) by sirius.infonex.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA20767 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 09:06:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 152.202.71.131 (202-71-131.ipt.aol.com [152.202.71.131]) by cyberpass.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA07148 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 09:08:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 09:08:07 -0700 (PDT) From: 2001files at usa.net Message-Id: <199809301608.JAA07148 at cyberpass.net> To: cypherpunks at cyberpass.net Reply-To: business_ideas at usa.net Subject: Increase Your Paycheck Next Week Sender: owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: cypherpunks at algebra.com X-List-Admin: ichudov at algebra.com X-Loop: cypherpunks at algebra.com Status: RO X-Status: Would you like to get a pay raise next week without asking your boss? 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From Marita.Nasman-Repo at DataFellows.com Fri Oct 2 02:38:56 1998 From: Marita.Nasman-Repo at DataFellows.com (Marita Näsman-Repo) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 02:38:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: MEDIA RELEASE: Data Fellows and TSP to Cooperate Message-ID: <3.0.32.19981002102642.00916c60@smtp.datafellows.com> Press Release For immediate release Data Fellows Strengthens Its Position as Leading Data Security Vendor in Europe TSP and Its Worldwide Partner Network Joins Data Fellows Helsinki, Finland, October 2, 1998 - Data Fellows, the developer of the ground-breaking F-Secure Anti-Virus and Cryptography product family, and the Dutch company TSP - The Security Provider have signed a cooperation and distribution agreement. TSP, whose owners were behind ThunderByte anti-virus toolkit, currently has over 40 distributors and 12 million ThunderByte users world-wide. TSP specializes in security consultancy and marketing of information security products. According to the announced cooperation agreement, TSP will concentrate on selling Data Fellows products in the Netherlands, and its international operations and distribution network will be taken over by Data Fellows and its partners. "The addition of TSP to our list of partners will be yet another step toward our goal of being among the top data security providers in the world." says Risto Siilasmaa, President and CEO of Data Fellows. "Together with Data Fellows� complete line of data security products, TSP�s network of distributors around the world is going to make a valuable contribution to our existing world wide partner network that already covers over 80 countries." Says Harald Zeeman of TSP, "The anti-virus market structures are changing. The customers today demand overall data security solutions instead of point applications. Therefore it is important for a small company like ours to form alliances and thereby to remain viable. The future belongs to those who have the broadest expertise and service to its customers. "With this alliance we are able to serve our existing customer base by offering them migration not only to the award-winning F-Secure Anti-Virus product range but above all to the F-Secure Workstation Suite which Data Fellows recently announced." TSP was founded in 1998 after Norman Data Defense Systems B.V. took over the development of the ThunderByte scanning engine. About Data Fellows Data Fellows is one of the world�s leading developers of data security products. The Company develops, markets and supports anti-virus, data security and cryptography software products for corporate computer networks. It has offices in San Jose, California, and Espoo, Finland, with corporate partners, VARs and other distributors in over 80 countries around the world. All F-Secure products are integrated into the CounterSign management architecture, which provides a three-tier, scaleable, policy-based management infrastructure to minimize the costs of security management. F-Secure Workstation Suite consists of malicious code detection and removal, unobtrusive file and network encryption, and personal firewall functionality, all integrated into a policy-based management architecture. F-Secure Anti-Virus, with multiple scanning engines (including F-PROT and AVP), is the most comprehensive, real-time virus scanning and protection system for all Windows platforms. F-Secure VPN+ provides a software-based, IPSEC-compliant Virtual Private Network solution for large corporate networks as well as remote and small office networks. F-Secure FileCrypto is the first and only product to integrate strong real-time encryption directly into the Windows file system. F-Secure SSH provides secure remote login, terminal, and other connections over unsecured networks. It is the most widely used secure remote administration tool. F-Secure NameSurfer is the solution for remote Internet and Intranet DNS administration. Its easy-to-use WWW user interface automates and simplifies DNS administration. The Company has customers in more than 100 countries, including many of the world�s largest industrial corporations and best-known telecommunications companies, major international airlines, European governments, post offices and defense forces, and several of the world�s largest banks. The Company was named one of the Top 100 Technology companies in the world by Red Herring magazine in its September 1998 issue. Other commendations include Hot Product of the Year 1997 (Data Communications Magazine); Best Anti-Virus product (SVM Magazine, May 1997); Editor�s Choice (SECURE Computing Magazine); and the 1996 European Information Technology Prize. For more information, please contact: USA: Data Fellows Inc. Mr. Petri Laakkonen, President Tel. +1 408 938 6700, fax +1 408 938 6701 E-mail: Petri.Laakkonen at DataFellows.com Europe: Data Fellows Oy Mr. Jari Holmborg, VP, Sales and Marketing PL 24 FIN-02231 ESPOO Tel. +358 9 859 900, fax. +358 9 8599 0599 E-mail: Jari.Holmborg at DataFellows.com or visit our web site at http://www.DataFellows.com -- Marita.Nasman-Repo at DataFellows.com, World-Wide Web http://www.DataFellows.com From rwww60 at email.sps.mot.com Thu Oct 1 11:54:43 1998 From: rwww60 at email.sps.mot.com (Marty Levy) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 02:54:43 +0800 Subject: Randomness testing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <361484A4.20AC5AD0@email.sps.mot.com> Try Diehard at http://stat.fsu.edu/~geo/diehard.html Clifford Heath wrote: > We have been asked by a customer if we have any tests that demonstrate > the randomness of the SSLeay random number generator (augmented by some > sound-card random number seeding that we wrote). > > I'd like to find some standard implementation for testing randomness, but > Schneier offers no help (other than a reference to Knuth Vol 2), and I > don't know where else to turn. > > I realise that cryptographic randomness requires unpredictability, and > this quality depends upon closed-world assumptions about unknown individuals' > predictive powers, but we have to live with that. > > -- > Clifford Heath http://www.osa.com.au/~cjh > Open Software Associates Limited mailto:cjh at osa.com.au > 29 Ringwood Street / PO Box 4414 Phone +613 9871 1694 > Ringwood VIC 3134 AUSTRALIA Fax +613 9871 1711 > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Deploy Applications across the net, see http://www.osa.com From anon at ecn.org Thu Oct 1 12:03:32 1998 From: anon at ecn.org (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 03:03:32 +0800 Subject: IP: New ExecOrd: Computer Software Piracy Message-ID: <199810020825.KAA01800@www.ecn.org> > Source: US Newswire > http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/1001-125.txt > > Clinton Issues Executive Order on Computer Software Piracy > U.S. Newswire > 1 Oct 14:10 > > Clinton Issues Executive Order on Computer Software Piracy > To: National Desk, Technology Writer > Contact: White House Press Office, 202-456-2100 > > WASHINGTON, Oct. 1 /U.S. Newswire/ -- The following was released > today by the White House: > > EXECUTIVE ORDER > - - - - - - - > COMPUTER SOFTWARE PIRACY > > The United States Government is the world's largest purchaser of > computer-related services and equipment, purchasing more than $20 > billion annually. At a time when a critical component in discussions > with our international trading partners concerns their efforts to > combat piracy of computer software and other intellectual property, > it is incumbent on the United States to ensure that its own practices > as a purchaser and user of computer software are beyond reproach. > Accordingly, by the authority vested in me as President by the > Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, it is > hereby ordered as follows: > > Section 1. Policy. It shall be the policy of the United States > Government that each executive agency shall work diligently to > prevent and combat computer software piracy in order to give effect > to copyrights associated with computer software by observing the > relevant provisions of international agreements in effect in the > United States, including applicable provisions of the World Trade > Organization Agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual > Property Rights, the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary > and Artistic Works, and relevant provisions of Federal law, including > the Copyright Act. I suppose this means the USG will decide to retroactively compensate Inslaw for their use of the Promis software all these years... From blancw at cnw.com Thu Oct 1 12:41:42 1998 From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 03:41:42 +0800 Subject: importance of motivation (Re: EduFUD: Computers, software can harm emotional, social development) In-Reply-To: <199810012036.VAA09025@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: <000701bdede1$952200a0$3d8195cf@blanc> Regarding ADD and difficulties with attention spans: another problem with the typical public educational system method of presenting information, is that it is begun from an abstract level, with very little contact with the concrete things from which the higher-level concepts were derived. Since a neophyte in the world hasn't yet developed their mental database, this means that they mostly have to imagine what a teacher is talking about in order to "get it", in order to remember it, in order to disgorge it back on command. Besides this, the information is not presented in a context where the significance of it (a math problem, for instance) is apparent to the student, i.e. why are we studying this, why should I strain myself over this? Very little of the activity involved in the understanding of things is done with due respect to the student's choice in the matter, to whether they have developed any personal interest in the subject, so this then is another element eliminated from the learning environment - respect, along with reality. It is no wonder that some children would fail to respond to the attempts to "educate" them, or that they would fail to display the desired level of interest, or else that they respond with equal disrespect and inattention. This could explain ADD/ADHD to some extent, and it probably would yield important insights for someone to examine their own true motivations when they have problems concentrating or paying attention. And there certainly seems to be a significant number of cpunks who claim to have this 'syndrome'. .. Blanc From mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de Thu Oct 1 13:22:07 1998 From: mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de (Mok-Kong Shen) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 04:22:07 +0800 Subject: Randomness testing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3614A761.380173E0@stud.uni-muenchen.de> Clifford Heath wrote: > > We have been asked by a customer if we have any tests that demonstrate > the randomness of the SSLeay random number generator (augmented by some > sound-card random number seeding that we wrote). > > I'd like to find some standard implementation for testing randomness, but > Schneier offers no help (other than a reference to Knuth Vol 2), and I > don't know where else to turn. I suggest that you do at least Maurer's test which is described in A. J. Menezes et al. Handbook of Applied Cryptography. The test is not difficult to code. You could also look at my code in http://www.stud.uni-muenchen.de/~mok-kong.shen/#paper1 in Fortran. M. K. Shen From mgering at ecosystems.net Thu Oct 1 13:27:15 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 04:27:15 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A19284728@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com> Jim Choate wrote: > > When I talk of a free market I mean Laissez Faire Capitalism, > > not Anarcho-Capitalism. > > What's the specific difference? I cannot claim to be an expert on anarcho-capitalism, but the fundamental difference is Laissez Faire Capitalists believes in limited government. The primary role of government being the abolition of coercive force, the protection of intellectual property, and running or overseeing of what can absolutely be justified as a natural monopoly (e.g. military defense, sewer, local roads, etc). Anarcho-capitalism on the other hand believes in no government (anarchy) and that social institutions and co-ops will assume any functions that a government would have had. Some believe that people and organizations will independently prevent force will others believe in a competitive free market for force and protection. In either case there is no government interference in free trade (except LF would prohibit Assassination Politics (AP) and similar). > In what way are the resulting markets different from > either the producers or consumers view? Views on intellectual property and the obvious marketplace changes due to an IP or lack of IP framework would be the major difference IMHO. I cannot currently justify no intellectual property rights taken to an extreme, and then you have the contradiction of force within the framework of commerce. > Explain further what you mean by abolition of force is a > prerequisite please. Basically no person (or entity) can use force (or its derivatives) against another person (or entity). Your long history of criminal law, except stripped of all victimless crimes. > And what specificaly do you mean by proper role of government? "What, then, is law? It is the collective organization of the individual right to lawful defense. Each of us has a natural right--from God--to defend his person, his liberty, and his property. These are the three basic requirements of life, and the preservation of any one of them is completely dependent upon the preservation of the other two. For what are our faculties but the extension of our individuality? And what is property but an extension of our faculties? If every person has the right to defend -- even by force -- his person, his liberty, and his property, then it follows that a group of men have the right to organize and support a common force to protect these rights constantly. Thus the principle of collective right -- its reason for existing, its lawfulness -- is based on individual right. And the common force that protects this collective right cannot logically have any other purpose or any other mission than that for which it acts as a substitute. Thus, since an individual cannot lawfully use force against the person, liberty, or property of another individual, then the common force -- for the same reason -- cannot lawfully be used to destroy the person, liberty, or property of individuals or groups. Such a perversion of force would be, in both cases, contrary to our premise. Force has been given to us to defend our own individual rights. Who will dare to say that force has been given to us to destroy the equal rights of our brothers? Since no individual acting separately can lawfully use force to destroy the rights of others, does it not logically follow that the same principle also applies to the common force that is nothing more than the organized combination of the individual forces? If this is true, then nothing can be more evident than this: The law is the organization of the natural right of lawful defense. It is the substitution of a common force for individual forces. And this common force is to do only what the individual forces have a natural and lawful right to do: to protect persons, liberties, and properties; to maintain the right of each, and to cause justice to reign over us all." from _The Law_, by Frederick Bastiat Matt From mgering at ecosystems.net Thu Oct 1 13:44:12 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 04:44:12 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A19284729@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com> Jim Choate wrote: > See above examples. Hell, take a look at the wet pet food > market now for a perfect example of why non-regulation is > a bad thing and why liability and other such buzz words > don't work in the real world. One thing that has changed fundamentally in the Information Age is the ability for the consumer to get informed -- the ease if information publishing and retrieval and the inability to control it. Reputation has more value then ever. If anything the government should insure information disclosure (and enforce laws against fraud). Don't prohibit transactions, let the consumer decide. For example the market will place a value on FDA approval, whether individuals will pay more for or only consume FDA approved items, whether insurance will cover non-approved items, etc (and the FDA should be funded fully by evaluation fees, it simply becomes a sort of brand, it sells reputation). Government cannot protect people from their own decisions, and should not have the right to take those decisions away. I wouldn't eat at McDonalds even with all the regulation. More often than not regulation is a false sense of security, and often protects companies from legitimate liability (although god knows our liability/tort system is completely out of whack). Matt From brownrk1 at texaco.com Thu Oct 1 14:30:13 1998 From: brownrk1 at texaco.com (Brown, R Ken) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 05:30:13 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F8476@MSX11002> > Petro[SMTP:petro at playboy.com] wrote: > Sent: 01 October 1998 21:23 > >>I'm afraid sir, that your ingonorance is showing. Pick up any college >>(hell, high school) ecomonics textbook. Certain types of businesses are >>inheritly advantagious to monopolies. The electric company is the classic > >>example- their is no cost effective way for an electric company to > supply > >>power to a given area unless it is a monopoly. Certain types of > businesses > >>are suited to certain types of competition, and, unregulated, monopolies > >>are exactly what you get. This was exactly the situation that occured > at > >>the turn of the century and it happened because regulation was > >>non-existant! Your statement is wonderfully trite but I see no evidence > to > >>support it. > > I'd suggest you go back to school and think a bit.In most places >the "Electric Company" is a goverment sponsored and deligated monopoly. >Competition is prohibited by REGULATION. This also occurs with Gas, Water, >Telephone, especially Non-commercial, cable, and in some places Garbage >disposal. Nonsense. Most of those businesses became monopolies - or local monopolies - in the relatively unregulated 1880-1914 period. In some of them - like rail or oil in the USA - governments introduced regulation to *force* competition. In UK over the last 30 years government has used a thing called the "Monopolies and Mergers Commission" to investigate & (very occasionally) break up monopolies or cartels. Government introduced regulation to stop BT selling some products in order to allow competion to grow. Recently government has forcibly broken up gas supply monopolies in this country. I don't believe there are that many natural monopolies Where there *are* natural monopolies it is because the entry cost is higher than any likely profit. Obvious case is water. It would cost you a hell of a lot to guarantee water supply to my street in London without using the existing infrastructure. Probably hundreds of millions of pounds. I pay less than a hundred pounds a year for my water. Natural monopoly. What happens much more often is that one company becomes dominant and then uses money to undersell rivals. Or even buy them up. Maybe even pay more for them It seems to be a common personality characteristic of people who run big companies that they want to run even bigger ones. The worst enemy of small business is big business. Now, if you wanted to say that in most countries big business and government had their hands in each others pockets I'd agree with you. But sometimes governments realise that monopolies are bad - or the voters tell them that monopolies are bad - and they introduce regulation to enforce competition. Some other problems - in some businesses (like oil) the capital investment required is so large that although there is no natural monopoly the players ahve to be big. It might even be that there are some business (long-distance airlcraft?) where the natural number of players in the world market is 1 - there just aren't enough customers to justify 2 companies making the investment (which is maybe why European governments stepped in to create Airbus). Garbage (what we call rubbish over here) collection is different again. It's not at all a nutural monopoly and there is nothing stopping anyone offering to do it as a business. But it is a natural for social ownership, not private ownership. The trouble with rubbish is that I want my *neighbour's* rubbish to be collected as well as my own. I can pay for mine, but what if he can't pay for his? (Like what if he is an unemployable alcoholic, with severe Tourette's syndrome who stands on street corners for sometimes 24 hours at a stretch, singing old soul and gospel songs, yelling and screaming at anyone who comes close, and drinking can after can of cheap beer to calm himself down enough so he can get some sleep?). I don't want his rubbish on my street. The easiest way to arrange that is for the majority who want rubbish collection to band together to pay for it for everybody. And the easiest way to arrange that is through tax and local government. Same applies to education - I might be able to pay for my daughter to go to school but we want everybody else's kids to go to school as well because my life is better if they do. So we pay for it through tax. If I don't watch out this will turn into a list of the 6 reasons why, even though private business is nearly always more efficient, *some* enterprises need to be publically owned. Ken Brown (usual disclaimer - nothing to do with my employers) > -- > petro at playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy. > petro at bounty.org-----for everthing else. They wouldn't like that. > They REALLY > Economic speech IS political speech. wouldn't like that. > From mark at unicorn.com Thu Oct 1 15:12:44 1998 From: mark at unicorn.com (mark at unicorn.com) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 06:12:44 +0800 Subject: copyright at the point of a gun (fwd) Message-ID: <907326747.18477.193.133.230.33@unicorn.com> Jim Choate wrote: >> Judging by the state of software-piracy with PC software with 80-90%+ >> piracy rates, the market is already pretty much ok with ignoring >> copyright, and would be happy to have no copyrights. >So long as it isn't money your taking out of their pocket. There is an >obvious double standard at play in the piracy issue. Personally I get paid pretty well for writing software that's given away for free. Why? Because it sells our hardware, and hardware is much, much harder to copy than software (not to mention that the vast majority of sales are made in the first two or three months after releasing a new chip when a cloner would still be trying to get their silicon up and running). OTOH I just paid good money for a Linux CD. Why, when it's all free on the Web? Because it contains a full consistent set of software, ready compiled, and the time I'd spend hunting down all those packages by myself is far more valuable than the cost of the CD. The same could be said to apply to many of the other software packages I've bought in the past; yes, in theory I could copy them, but I don't know anyone who has a copy, so it would take longer to hunt it down for free than to pay for it up front. Software copyright really only benefits big companies like Microsoft. There are good reasons for buying software from other companies even if there was no copyright enforcement at gunpoint. Mark From frissell at panix.com Thu Oct 1 15:41:13 1998 From: frissell at panix.com (Duncan Frissell) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 06:41:13 +0800 Subject: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... In-Reply-To: <199810011243.HAA18113@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199810021140.HAA19298@mail1.panix.com> At 10:46 AM 10/1/98 -0700, Tim May wrote: >Finally, the "environmental burden" imposed by a coal-fired power plant is >vastly greater than that from a nuclear plant. Do the math on particulates, >carbon levels, etc. Many libertarians have proposed better schemes for >dealing with such environmental burdens....if fossil fuel-powered plants >had to actually pay their share of environmental costs, they'd be even more >expensive than nuclear. A normally operating coal plant releases more radioactive material (carbon 14) than a normally operating nuclear plant. The waste products from a coal plant are not only more voluminous (though less dense) than the coal that goes in but also contain a substance that is more poisonous than plutonium (arsenic trioxide). DCF From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Thu Oct 1 16:46:53 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 07:46:53 +0800 Subject: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd) Message-ID: <199810021246.HAA24653@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 07:41:29 -0400 > From: Duncan Frissell > Subject: Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... > A normally operating coal plant releases more radioactive material (carbon > 14) than a normally operating nuclear plant. The largest environment impact issue with a nuclear plant is hot water discharge (which is much larger than the exhaust from a coal plant) and spent fuel storage because of the amount of time that is required to guarantee seals. In the first place the heated water effects the ecology of the local area and you see the ripples of this in the ecology changes for hundreds of miles. An additional impact is that because of the water needs of plants they are usualy located in or near wetlands which are critical to the entire eco-cycle for thousands of miles. The issue with storage is that it occurs on a time line that is best described as near-geologic. Periods of time that are orders of magnitude longer than human civilizations survive. > coal plant are not only more voluminous (though less dense) than the coal > that goes in but also contain a substance that is more poisonous than > plutonium (arsenic trioxide). Consider the difference in volume of these two waste products... ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Thu Oct 1 16:47:10 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 07:47:10 +0800 Subject: copyright at the point of a gun (fwd) Message-ID: <199810021250.HAA24715@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 04:12:29 -0700 (PDT) > From: mark at unicorn.com > Subject: Re: copyright at the point of a gun (fwd) > >So long as it isn't money your taking out of their pocket. There is an > >obvious double standard at play in the piracy issue. [irrelevent material deleted] > Software copyright really only benefits big companies like Microsoft. There No, it also protects the little guy who writes a nifty piece of code that lots of people want to use. > are good reasons for buying software from other companies even if there > was no copyright enforcement at gunpoint. If there was no copyright enforcement then the license agreements would be even more draconian than they are now. Not to mention that technology as a whole would be spread slower because companies wouldn't share it as easy as they do now because of the protection of copyright. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jvb at ssds.com Thu Oct 1 17:53:46 1998 From: jvb at ssds.com (Jim Burnes) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 08:53:46 +0800 Subject: Randomness testing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Oct 1998, Clifford Heath wrote: > We have been asked by a customer if we have any tests that demonstrate > the randomness of the SSLeay random number generator (augmented by some > sound-card random number seeding that we wrote). > > I'd like to find some standard implementation for testing randomness, but > Schneier offers no help (other than a reference to Knuth Vol 2), and I > don't know where else to turn. > > I realise that cryptographic randomness requires unpredictability, and > this quality depends upon closed-world assumptions about unknown individuals' > predictive powers, but we have to live with that. > You mean you don't have a copy of Knuth, Vol 2. For shame! I'm too lazy to look it up for you, but I believe the two tests are called the Run test and the Chi-square method. (trying to remember from my own dusty compSci memories) jim From xasper8d at lobo.net Thu Oct 1 18:22:31 1998 From: xasper8d at lobo.net (X) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 09:22:31 +0800 Subject: EduFUD: Computers, software can harm emotional, social development In-Reply-To: <199810012307.QAA27055@netcom13.netcom.com> Message-ID: <000501bdee0f$e0762080$982580d0@ibm> While preaching to the choir, Vladimir said (among other neat stuff) ~> not all effects are positive, but it's creating a new ~> reality I vastly prefer to the old, shriveled up one. The old, shriveled up reality! I LOVE it! X From mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de Thu Oct 1 18:34:49 1998 From: mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de (Mok-Kong Shen) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 09:34:49 +0800 Subject: Randomness testing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3614F088.C3F31857@stud.uni-muenchen.de> Jim Burnes wrote: > > You mean you don't have a copy of Knuth, Vol 2. For shame! I suppose Heath meant that there is no codes ready for him to use as those given in Schneier's book. Some tests in Knuth are in fact not very trivial to code. M. K. Shen From BeF6785 at mpifr-bonn.mpg.de Fri Oct 2 10:57:46 1998 From: BeF6785 at mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (BeF6785 at mpifr-bonn.mpg.de) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 10:57:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Fired! Message-ID: <199810021755.TAA11878@sun95.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de>

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From jei at zor.hut.fi Thu Oct 1 19:59:04 1998 From: jei at zor.hut.fi (Jukka E Isosaari) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 10:59:04 +0800 Subject: Randomness testing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: One very easy test is to compress the produced random number binary files with various compression algorithms or programs. If the data is truly random, it should not be possible to achieve any compression. At least not if you include the compression program data size in the calculation. Well, I'm not sure whether this is such a good practical test or not.(?) ++ J On Fri, 2 Oct 1998, Clifford Heath wrote: > We have been asked by a customer if we have any tests that demonstrate > the randomness of the SSLeay random number generator (augmented by some > sound-card random number seeding that we wrote). > > I'd like to find some standard implementation for testing randomness, but > Schneier offers no help (other than a reference to Knuth Vol 2), and I > don't know where else to turn. > > I realise that cryptographic randomness requires unpredictability, and > this quality depends upon closed-world assumptions about unknown individuals' > predictive powers, but we have to live with that. > > -- > Clifford Heath http://www.osa.com.au/~cjh > Open Software Associates Limited mailto:cjh at osa.com.au > 29 Ringwood Street / PO Box 4414 Phone +613 9871 1694 > Ringwood VIC 3134 AUSTRALIA Fax +613 9871 1711 > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Deploy Applications across the net, see http://www.osa.com > > From rms at santafe.edu Thu Oct 1 20:13:59 1998 From: rms at santafe.edu (Richard Stallman) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 11:13:59 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) In-Reply-To: <199809281845.TAA18662@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: <199810021611.KAA24080@wijiji.santafe.edu> It might be best not to develop encryption software in the US. You might enjoy working on encryption, but if export control makes it is hard for the whole world-wide free software community to take advantage of your work, it would be better to work on something else not subject to export control, and leave encryption to people outside the US. There are plenty of people in other countries interested in working on encryption. The GNU replacements for PGP and SSH are being written outside the US, by people who are not US citizens. We will import them to the US, but we will never need to export them. From rms at santafe.edu Thu Oct 1 20:14:34 1998 From: rms at santafe.edu (Richard Stallman) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 11:14:34 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) In-Reply-To: <199809281845.TAA18662@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: <199810021611.KAA24078@wijiji.santafe.edu> The big issue I see with GPL and Crypto software is that with the GPL you cannot add any redistribution restrictions. The problem is that due to the United States export rules, I cannot export Crypto software, That is true. which means I must legally put a restriction on any Crypto code I write. In general, the fact that action A is illegal does not mean you must include a requirement in your distribution terms not to do A. Such a requirement is superfluous, because A is illegal no matter what you say about it. For example, if you distribute email software, you don't need to state the requirements not to use it for fraud or harrassment. They are illegal anyway. It might be a good idea to include, in crypto software, a notice informing users that US law forbids export of the software, as a warning lest they do so unaware that export control covers it; but this need not have the form of a binding requirement. It could just be "for your information". From declan at well.com Thu Oct 1 20:26:24 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 11:26:24 +0800 Subject: The end of The Netly News Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 09:24:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Declan McCullagh To: politech at vorlon.mit.edu Subject: The end of The Netly News http://www.freedomforum.org/press/presswatch.asp Declan McCullagh is ending his longstanding "Netly News" column and leaving Time magazine today because of the magazine's recently restructured technology coverage. He will join Wired Oct. 12 as chief Washington correspondent. His agreement with Wired lets him continue to run the Politech e-mail list, a popular industry source of breaking news and analysis on technology and politics. (By Adam Clayton Powell III) http://www.wired.com/news/news/business/story/15373.html Time Warner on Thursday quietly shut down Netly News, melding the operations of its Internet-beat news service and the online version of Time Digital. From mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de Thu Oct 1 20:36:53 1998 From: mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de (Mok-Kong Shen) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 11:36:53 +0800 Subject: An Extension of My Encryption Algorithm WEAK3 Message-ID: <36150EB7.D2300148@stud.uni-muenchen.de> A reported trouble with the runtime libraries (dll) has be removed. Those who have downloaded the WEAK binaries before 29th September please do the downloading once again. M. K. Shen From sunder at brainlink.com Thu Oct 1 21:54:23 1998 From: sunder at brainlink.com (Sunder) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 12:54:23 +0800 Subject: Y2K: Wired: Your bank account is safe(?) Message-ID: <36151156.92214CF3@brainlink.com> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 21:48:15 -0400 From: Salvatore Denaro Subject: y2k: FDIC says that every dollar is safe... POL. Monday FDIC: BANK BALANCES Y2K PROOF Thirty-seven federally insured banks are not ready for Y2K, but don't panic. The head of the FDIC says that every single dollar will be safe. http://www.wired.com/news/news/email/explode-infobeat/politics/story/15283.html -- Salvatore Denaro sal at panix.com From stuffed at stuffed.net Fri Oct 2 13:49:36 1998 From: stuffed at stuffed.net (STUFFED NEWS DAILY) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 13:49:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: STUFFED IS NOW FASTER THAN EVER/WE HAVE 1,000S OF NEW MEGA-HOT FREE PICS! Message-ID: <19981002071000.21852.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com> + 30 MEGA HI-RES PICS + 5 SUPER-HORNY SEXY STORIES + SECURE SEX + HOW SEX BECAME DIRTY + LOVE AND MARRIAGE + BARK LIKE A DOG + DRUNK DRIVING WIERDOS + THE BEST OF EUREKA + WANNA BUY SOME TRASH ----> http://stuffed.net/98/10/2/ <---- Welcome to today's issue of Stuffed. To read it you should click on the URL above. If it is not made clickable by your email program you will need to use your mouse to highlight the URL, copy it and then paste it into your browser (then press Return). This email is never sent unsolicited. Stuffed is the supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full instructions on unsubscribing are in every issue of Eureka! ----> http://stuffed.net/98/10/2/ <---- From info at oaktree.org Fri Oct 2 14:14:58 1998 From: info at oaktree.org (info at oaktree.org) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 14:14:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Information on New Cellular Battery Message-ID: <36154A870000007A@oaktree.oaktree.org> Information on New Cellular Battery Hi: If you or a loved one has ever missed making or receiving a call on your Motorola Cellular Flip Phone because your battery lost power, you definitely want the All Day Battery from HITEC Group at http://www.alldaybattery.com. (If you don't have a Motorola Flip Phone or if you have a digital cellular phone this info is not for you.) The All Day Battery provides: 1. Extended Life: Minimum 5 hours of talk time and 36 hours of standby time on the oldest phones. Newer phones (more efficient) will get substantially more talk & standby time. 2. Patented Technology: The All Day Battery uses patented technology to protect it during the charging cycle and to insure you that you get the maximum charge the battery will hold. 3. Power Gauge: This battery has a true gauge display of the power left in the battery. Standard battery life indicators on cell phones only tells you that there is a voltage level in the battery - you may get a level 5 reading and the battery could lose total power in the next instant. 4. Battery Protection - The worst thing you can do to a battery is charge it. During the charging process other batteries are damaged or destroyed by heat and overcharging. The All Day Battery is protected from damage and the accurate power gauge tells you when it is fully charged. All other batteries try to protect against damage by never fully charging. 5. Two(2) Year Warranty: A "No Hassle" two-year warranty is part of every All Day Battery. Cell phones are critical for personal safety and are heavily used for important business activities. The All Day Battery is only $99.00 and provides security and functionality value that goes way beyond that cost. You can order direct on the Internet via a Verisign Secure site at http://www.alldaybattery.com. ############################################################################# This transmission is in compliance with "Section 301, Paragraph (a)(2)(C) of S. 1618, further transmissions to you by the sender of this E-mail may be stopped at no cost to you by sending a reply to this E-mail address with the word "remove" in the subject line." ############################################################################# From mmotyka at lsil.com Thu Oct 1 23:30:06 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 14:30:06 +0800 Subject: US and Canadian Press Briefings Message-ID: <361528ED.647E@lsil.com> The assurance that privacy is safe and sound is too consistently followed by the promise of a workable compromise between personal privacy and the 'legitimate needs of law enforcement.' I'm not a lawyer but I don't see any middle ground that accomodates both. Either the 5th ammendment stands or it falls. What exactly are they planning? They talk as if the groundwork has already been done and it's merely a matter of following through. Watch for some wierd stuff tied to a barley crop subsidy or an EPA appropriation. Are there other examples of this speech from overseas? Mike I can think of only one phrase suited to describe a state where the civil liberties are defined by the police agencies. From apf2 at apf2.com Fri Oct 2 00:10:12 1998 From: apf2 at apf2.com (Albert P. Franco, II) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 15:10:12 +0800 Subject: microcurrency proposal Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981002211612.0088ec30@apf2.com> >Date: Thu, 01 Oct 98 16:20:35 -0700 >From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" snip... >but I think this is a very promising approach. a company >can create a plugin that would support microcurrency charges >for web page hits very easily. > >here's how: the plugin interacts with any site that has >enabled it. it sends a code to the site using a protocol. >the site returns pages only upon a valid transaction request. >for regular browsers without the plugin, the message is, >"sorry, this page costs $.01, please download so-and-so >plugin". > ... >how would the cash charge work? when the person gets the >plugin, they give the plugin company their credit card >number. the company takes care of the problem of accruing >micro charges, keeping track of transactions/bills, and >billing the credit card in large amounts. > Here in Spain prepay telephone cards for cell phones are quite popular. The idea is that you buy a card for 5000 pesetas ($35) and make calls until it is exhausted then you get another. As a manner of getting something going why not charge $5 OR $10 for the download and discount away until the plug-in is empty. Obviously, there needs to be some way to make sure the customer doesn't tinker with the value remaining. Pretty much all of the technology for distribution is already easily available and as mentioned further on in your letter the amounts are so small that fraud shouldn't be too much of an issue. The page generators side is likewise straight forward as they collect the charge amount and plugin certificate number which they send as a file periodically to the plugin provider who verifies that no "major" fraud has occurred and then disburses the funds (minus commission) to the content provider. Don't get to nervous about the plugin certificate number. These numbers would not be used to link to a particular user, but rather to make sure that a $5 dollar cert only runs up $5 of charges after which it is blocked. >the problem is trying to transfer money to various individuals >if their microcharge accounts have a net positive value instead >of negative (in which case they would be charged their credit >card at the end of the month). how do you transfer this money? > This situation may be addressable in (at least) two ways. Issue a limited value plugin say for 50 cent increments or incorporate a mechanism for crediting the plugin. I prefer the first method since the second may make the system more vulnerable. >of course, I'm leaving the issue of taxes out of this, but >the microcharge company could be a point of collection for >them. > The plugin issuer should not be required to be an expert in international tax law. I think an annual statement of payments sent to the content provider would probably be sufficient. The concept is that the content provider has not sold services or content to 50,000 individuals but rather one customer. I think that pretty much all countries have existing methods of controlling and collecting taxes based on the income derived from sales activities. There is no need to make the task of the plugin issuer more difficult. >notice that none of what I am proposing above requires any >new infrastructure whatsoever, except a little programming >into a plugin. the distribution of the plugin is partly solved >in that plugins are already distributed all over the net >and understood by end-users. > As my suggestions above demonstrate, I agree that this is perhaps the most likely way that a "grassroots" based microcurrency system could actually get off the ground. There is absolutely nothing in this plan that mandates the participation of major financial entities, which seems to be a major bottleneck for other systems. (Besides the fact that the big guys don't seem interested in truly "micro" transactions) This is in fact something that could very well grow in Internet time scale rather than (conservative) bankers time. Al Franco, II From apf2 at apf2.com Fri Oct 2 00:10:59 1998 From: apf2 at apf2.com (Albert P. Franco, II) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 15:10:59 +0800 Subject: IP: Clear and present danger: FIGHT AGAINST NATIONAL ID CARD (fwd) Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981002214238.0088e550@apf2.com> >From: Jim Choate >Three branches of government? Between the state and federal? > >I don't think so... > >There are *THREE* (3) EQUALY powered members in the government of the United >States of America; federal, state, and the people. > I think the original message speaks of executive, legislative, and judicial branches. As defined by the constitution this is, in fact, the federal government. As a matter of practice, most if not all, of the states are also divided this way. Article X which you quoted supports the tacit understanding that We, the people, are not actually THE government. We, the people, have, by this the supreme law of the land, authorized the formation and maintenance of a government which by this same document We authorize to govern us. I don't really see anywhere that says we can't revoke our authorization. But I also don't see anything that places We, the people, inside the government structures. Remember, there was a great deal of fuss made by the framers of that great document about giving the People too much power. That's why there were originally a lot of limits on direct election of top officials. Hell technically, we still don't directly elect the president. The electoral college does. We also cannot directly propose or implement legislation. Some states do allow this level of popular intervention but the sad fact is we still don't have a national referendum. The statement you made that, "There are *THREE* (3) EQUALLY powered members in the government of the United States of America; federal, state, and the people." Is simply not true. The states are no longer equals to the feds, and We the people are in today's world much less than equal to either. Al Franco, II From chrisharwig at hetnet.nl Fri Oct 2 00:12:13 1998 From: chrisharwig at hetnet.nl (kryz) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 15:12:13 +0800 Subject: Fw: 1998-10-01 VP Announces New Efforts to Crack Down on Software Piracy In-Reply-To: <19981001202053.2.MAIL-SERVER@pub1.pub.whitehouse.gov> Message-ID: To whom it may concern: ---------- | Date: donderdag 1 oktober 1998 20:20:00 | From: The White House | To: Public-Distribution at pub.pub.whitehouse.gov | Subject: 1998-10-01 VP Announces New Efforts to Crack Down on Software Piracy | | | THE WHITE HOUSE | | Office of the Vice President | ________________________________________________________________________ | For Immediate Release October 1, 1998 | | | VICE PRESIDENT GORE ANNOUNCES | NEW EFFORTS TO CRACK DOWN ON SOFTWARE PIRACY WORLD-WIDE | | | Washington, DC --Vice President Gore announced today that a new | Executive Order (EO) will direct federal departments and agencies to | prevent and combat computer software piracy, and the President also will | direct the United States Trade Representative (USTR) to press foreign | governments to enact similar protections. | | "Today, we are declaring war on software piracy," Vice President | Gore said. "The message is clear: don't copy that floppy. At home or | abroad,intellectual property must be protected." | | The federal government is the world's largest buyer of | computer-related services and equipment, at over $20 billion a year. | An estimated $11 billion was lost world-wide to software piracy in 1997, | translating into as many as 130,000 lost jobs in the United States. | | President Clinton's Executive Order directs agencies to: | | Ensure that only authorized computer software is acquired for, | and used on, agency computers. | | Ensure that agency policies and practices related to copyrights | on computer software are adequate. | | Prepare an inventory of the software on their computers. | | Develop and maintain adequate record-keeping systems for their | computer software. | | Vice President Gore said the President is directing USTR Charlene | Barshefsky to press other governments over the next year to announce | programs ensuring that their departments and ministries use only | legitimate software in an authorized manner. Working closely with | software companies, USTR will seek to persuade other governments to | modernize their software management systems, to assess software use | through comprehensive audits, and to ensure that procurement practices | call for, and budgets provide for, acquisition and use of "legal | software." | | Finally, the Vice President announced that the Commerce Department | will award 79 new Advanced Technology Program (ATP) grants, worth $82 | million, to keep America at the cutting-edge of technology and | innovation. ATP helps fund higher-risk, higher-payoff investments that | can yield enormous economic benefits. By requiring cost-sharing from | industry, the ATP leverages federal research dollars and encourages | companies to invest in long-term technological breakthroughs. | | This year's grants will go for, among other things: | | Technology to restore nerve functions to treat victims of | spinal cord injuries. | | Life-saving DNA diagnostics at 1/100th of the current cost. | | Digital video technologies that will allow businesses to do | video-conferencing over ordinary phone lines. | | Software technologies that will dramatically cut the cost | of updating the skills of workers using computer-based | training. | | ### | | From sunder at brainlink.com Fri Oct 2 00:15:40 1998 From: sunder at brainlink.com (Sunder) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 15:15:40 +0800 Subject: NT5 Ships 96 years early!!! Message-ID: <361533DE.7B4DA16C@brainlink.com> Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 16:14:15 -0400 From: Salvatore Denaro Subject: NT5 Ships 96 years early >From the MS timeline: http://www.microsoft.com/WindowsNT5/workstation/default.asp WINDOWS NT SERVER 5.0 DECEMBER 30, 1899 -- Find out about Windows NT Server 5.0 and how it builds upon the strengths of version 4.0 to provide a platform that is faster, more reliable, and easier to manage. -- Salvatore Denaro sal at panix.com From rah at shipwright.com Fri Oct 2 00:17:55 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 15:17:55 +0800 Subject: Reputations for Sale Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 09:16:56 -0800 From: "Daniel J. Boone" Organization: ROMEA MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rah at shipwright.com Subject: Reputations for Sale Hi, Robert! Given your interest in reputation capital, I thought you would be amused to know that right now (9:11 AM Alaska time, 1:11 PM Eastern) there is a discussion going on at Http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewBoard&name=qa regarding the sale of an online commercial reputation. Messages on this board scroll away in about two hours, so if you actually want to look, be quick. eBay, as you may know, is an online auction site where one can build a reputation through a numerical feedback mechanism. Someone is suggesting building up accounts until they have a respectable feedback level and then auctioning them off to new sellers who lack the patience to earn feedback the old-fashioned way. These are not folks who are clueful, for the most part, about such issues; it's just a business idea to this guy. I think it's fascinating. Take care -- Daniel P.S. If you think this would be of interest to any of your lists, feel free to repost it. I'd post it to Cypherpunks, but I'm not currently subscribed there. ================================================================= Daniel J. Boone | "No man's life, liberty, Robertson, Monagle & Eastaugh, P.C. | or property is safe when P.O. Box 21211 | the Legislature is in Juneau, Alaska 99802 | session." | (907) 586-3340 | --Judge Gideon J. Tucker Fax: 586-6818 | New York, 1866 ================================================================= --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Fri Oct 2 00:18:24 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 15:18:24 +0800 Subject: [E-CARM] WIPO Public Meeting w/ Prof. Michael Froomkin Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text X-Authentication-Warning: c3po.kc-inc.net: majordomo set sender to owner-e-carm at lists.kc-inc.net using -f X-Sender: cdt9 at pop.cais.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 12:20:30 -0400 To: e-carm at c3po.kc-inc.net From: Ari Schwartz Subject: [E-CARM] WIPO Public Meeting w/ Prof. Michael Froomkin Sender: owner-e-carm at c3po.kc-inc.net Precedence: bulk ***OPEN INVITATION TO ALL MEMBERS OF THE INTERNET COMMUNITY*** The World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO) is currently holding a series of public forums to discuss the intellectual property issues associated with Internet domain names, including dispute resolution. Michael Froomkin, Professor of Law at the University of Miami, was appointed this week to the WIPO experts panel. In order to foster greater public input into the WIPO process, Professor Froomkin will be holding an informal open meeting on Monday, October 5th at 9 a.m. to hear comments and concerns from the public interest community regarding this critical issue. All interested parties are invited to attend and contribute to this open discussion. Meeting with Michael Froomkin, WIPO experts panel member Monday, October 5 at 9 a.m. hosted by the Center for Democracy and Technology 1634 Eye Street NW, 11th Floor Call (202) 637-9800 for further details. ------------------------------------ Ari Schwartz Policy Analyst Center for Democracy and Technology 1634 Eye Street NW, Suite 1100 Washington, DC 20006 202 637 9800 fax 202 637 0968 ari at cdt.org http://www.cdt.org ------------------------------------ =========================================================================== Help with Majordomo commands plus list archives and information is available through the E-CARM web page at http://www.kc-inc.net/e-carm/. Sponsored by The Knowledge Connection. =========================================================================== --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Fri Oct 2 00:31:22 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 15:31:22 +0800 Subject: WPI Cryptoseminar, Wednesday, 10/7 (fwd) Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text X-Authentication-Warning: goya.WPI.EDU: christof owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 15:30:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Christof Paar To: DCSB Subject: WPI Cryptoseminar, Wednesday, 10/7 (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: bounce-dcsb at ai.mit.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Christof Paar Here we go again. Our seminar series starts next week on a regular base. -Christof ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- WPI Cryptography and Information Security Seminar Christof Paar, WPI REPORT ON THE ADVANCED ENCRYPTION STANDARD, AES Wednesday, October 7 4:00 pm, AK 108 (refreshments at 3:45 pm) It is probably widely known that DES expires as a federal encryption standard by the end of 1998. Currently NIST is overseeing the development of a new block cipher, AES, which will become the DES successor. The development process for AES is highly interesting as it has been (as of yet) been a public process: Everyone was able to submit candidate algorithms which are currently publicly reviewed. My talk will mainly follow the excellent presentations by Miles Smid, who is with NIST, at the AES1 and CRYPTO '98 conferences in August. I will briefly review the main requirements for AES and talk about the submitted algorithms. The talk will conclude with a description of how the AES selection process will continue. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- DIRECTIONS: The WPI Cryptoseminar is being held in the Atwater Kent building on the WPI campus. The Atwater Kent building is at the intersection of West and Salisbury Street for those coming from outside. Directions to the campus can be found at http://www.wpi.edu/About/Visitors/directions.html TALKS IN THE FALL '98 SEMESTER: 8/12 Kris Gaj, George Mason University Quantum Computers and Classical Supercomputers as a Threat to Existing Ciphers. 10/6 Christof Paar, WPI Report on AES 10/14 David Finkel, WPI Performance and Security in Web-based Electronic Commerce 10/28 Thomas Blum, WPI Efficient FPGA Architectures for Public-Key Algorithms [other talks to be announced] See also http://ece.WPI.EDU/Research/crypt/seminar/index.html for abstracts of some of the talks. MAILING LIST: If you want to be added to the mailing list and receive talk announcements together with abstracts, please send me a short mail. Likewise, if you want to be removed from the list, just send me a short mail. Regards, Christof Paar ************************************************************************* Christof Paar http://ee.wpi.edu/People/faculty/cxp.html Assistant Professor email: christof at ece.wpi.edu Cryptography Group phone: (508) 831 5061 ECE Department, WPI fax: (508) 831 5491 100 Institute Road Worcester, MA 01609, USA ************************************************************************* For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to "dcsb-request at ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help". --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Fri Oct 2 00:33:40 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 15:33:40 +0800 Subject: Take Back the Constitution - the 4th Amendment Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 16:10:36 -0400 (EDT) From: ElectPD at earthlink.net To: rah at shipwright.com Subject: Take Back the Constitution - the 4th Amendment Take back the Constitution! Eye-catching Fourth Amendment bumper sticker available. Bold and daring (as are your constitutional rights). It reads, "I do not consent to a search of my vehicle, my person or my residence. So, don't ask. This individual is protected by the 4th Amendment." Http://home.earthlink.net/~electpd Link shows you photo of bumper sticker. It was created and produced by three Santa Clara County (California) deputy public defenders. It measures 15 inches by 3� inches (very large). Top quality materials and paints. $2 each or 6 for $10. +$4 for shipping via U.S. mail. Citizens to Elect Our Public Defender (in Santa Clara County, California). P. O. Box 71, San Jose, CA 95103. (408)996-8473. Bumper stickers mailed out same day order received., via first class mail and in protective envelopes ($1.50 to $3 for postage + $1 for the envelope - our cost). ___________________________________________________________ If you wish to be removed from the ElectPD future mailings, to include upcoming bumper stickers announcements, please reply with "Remove" in the subject line and your name will be removed from future mailings. --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Fri Oct 2 03:03:31 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 18:03:31 +0800 Subject: ICANN (New IANA) as a Pawn in an Economic Struggle Between US and Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 17:42:56 -0400 Reply-To: cook at cookreport.com Originator: com-priv at lists.psi.com Sender: com-priv at lists.psi.com Precedence: bulk From: Gordon Cook To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: ICANN (New IANA) as a Pawn in an Economic Struggle Between US and X-Comment: Commercialization and Privatization of the Internet I asked the question a few days ago: what could justify Ira's heavy handed tactics. What stakes could be large enough to risk the stability of the net? Here is an informed hypothesis based on a 90 minutes conversation with an expert source in these areas who has a heavy international background. (I have also reality checked this hypothesis with several knowledgable observers.) I am beginning to get an idea of what is at stake in the larger sense. Ira, I fear, is using the internet as a pawn in a far bigger game. The game is is inextricably linked with the privacy statutes of the OECD and the coming October 23th deadline for American companies doing business in Europe and data mining on European citizens as part of their ordinary activities. It is also inextricably linked with the international encryption debate. I have heard credible allegations that the US government is at such loggerheads with the OECD countries over the use of key recovery encryption and over the unwillingness of american big business to change its ways of gathering data on employees, customers, contractors etc that we are coming to the October 23th deadline with billions of dollars at stake and no solution. At the same time Ira has for the past three years focused on his mission with Tom Kalil and working through the National Economic and Security Council to setting up the internet as a mechanism for global economic commerce..... touting the net as a means on which, in a few year's time, the majority of the world's economy will depend. It looks as though Ira's agenda is to do this in such a way that the internet can be controlled by an American based, incorporated, non profit public authority set up under American law with a Board, purposefully established without fiscal restraints and without any oversight or accountability. And with board members who with a smattering of international representation can be made as subserviant as possible to the interests of the large American Corporations. These Board members, through the GIP, will be passing the cup to pay for the expenses of establishing ICANN. Consider Bill Burrington Director of Law and Public Policy and Assistant General Counsel at AOL, a company which huge data holdings. He is the chair of the Washington DC Internetactive Services Association which went on to form the Internet Alliance with membership very simalr to GIP. Burrington is manning the barricades of the companies involved in the privacy dispute with the oecd. (Why should Burrington care? Consider AOL's electronic profiles on its 12 million members) Consider also Andy Sernovitz of AIM whose members have the same general interests and who helped Barb Dooley of the CIX sell out the IFWP process. Did Jon Postel really refuse to attend the Harvard wrap up meeting or did Ira order him not to? So even if Ira looks heavy handed -- for this agenda to be used as the White House intends-- Ira needs to have his ducks in order in time for the OECD meeting in Canada that begins next week. He needs to demonstrate that he has enough power to have rammed through a solution at home. That is why things have turned nasty during the last week and why the iron fist is becoming seen with the incorporation of ICANN even though, by Ira's own allegedly free process, ICANN should not yet be seen as the winner. Ira is determined to confront the OECD next week with an Internet that *HE* and the White House clearly controls and to do so as a bargaining chip to use in getting our way against the Europeans and Asians and Canadians..... on the issues of encryption and privacy statutes. It would be instructive to see the legal basis of the governments arguments being used to get NSI to cave. Could it be that their content might be embarrising? If SAIC doesn't order NSI to sign Ira's demands by the seventh then Ira and the white house will not be as in control of the internet, as they need to demonstrate themselves to be, in order to use the internet as an american dominated global commerce weapon against the other OECD governments. The American view is that with the internet firmly in command of the White House on American corportate terms, the Asians and Europeans will have no choice but to back off their privacy and the American encryption demands. Remember also that Europe is trying to launch the Euro in such a way that it becomes the world's reserve currency. One would like to know whether the White House orders are do what ever is necessary to see that this effort fails. The Europeans and Asians understand perfectly well the power play that Ira is engaged in. They are not surprisingly seething with anger. American arrogance could be doing dangerous things. If we drive Europe and Asia into an economic and political alliance against us, we all will lose. Privacy, and the freedom to live our lives without government and corporate political or economic interference are at stake. *************************************************************************** The COOK Report on Internet White House Corrupts Formation of IANA 431 Greenway Ave, Ewing, NJ 08618 USA Corporation. White Paper a Sham. See (609) 882-2572 (phone & fax) http://www.cookreport.com/sellout cook at cookreport.com Index to 6 years of COOK Report, how to subscribe, exec summaries, special reports, gloss at http://www.cookreport.com *************************************************************************** --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Fri Oct 2 03:08:44 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 18:08:44 +0800 Subject: ICANN (New IANA) as a Pawn in an Economic Struggle Between USand In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Not to disturb your exegetic reverie, here, Gord, but I asked Mr. Magaziner, when he spoke at at the Electronic Payments Forum earlier this month, in front of about 400 or so digital commerce and e$ types, the following question: "Given your administration's, um, success, in banning strong foriegn cryptography, how do you propose to ban it in the United States?" His answer then was that he was absolutely postively against key escrow or limits on cryptography of any kind. Besides stealing all my carefully worded thunder :-), he got a big round of applause. He also said that the major reason for the, um, complexity, of US crypto policy was that the administration's internet commerce types were fighting the law enforcent types tooth and nail about it. I want to smash the state as much as the next crypto-anarchist :-), but I figure this is what is happening. The spooks gave up on this crap long ago, and it's just the cops standing in front of the steamroller now. Money trumps crime-FUD, just like it did spook-FUD. F=MA, and all that. :-). Cheers, Bob Hettinga "There's the conspiracy theory of history, where elites conspire to shape events behind the scenes, the fuck-up theory of history, where elites fuck up and conspire to cover it behind the scenes, and the fucked-up conspiracy theory of history, where elites conspire to shape events, fuck up, and conspire to cover it up behind the scenes. My favorite theory is the latter." -- (An as-yet Unremembered) Mizzou History Prof or, in the spirit of William of Occam, "Never attribute to conspiracy what can be explained by stupidity." --Jerry Pournelle ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From ulf at fitug.de Fri Oct 2 03:28:04 1998 From: ulf at fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 18:28:04 +0800 Subject: Is the .to (Tonga) domain completely rogue and should be removed? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: As mentioned out in NTK, Internet has put set Tuvalu top-level domain "on hold". What has happened? Registrant: Tuvalu top-level domain TV17-DOM Ministry of Finance and Tourism Funafuti, TUVALU Domain Name: TV Domain Status: On Hold Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact: Internet Assigned Numbers Authority IANA iana at iana.org (310) 822-1511 Record last updated on 15-Sep-98. Record created on 18-Mar-96. Database last updated on 2-Oct-98 03:53:16 EDT. From goamail at gunowners.org Fri Oct 2 18:28:23 1998 From: goamail at gunowners.org (Gun Owners of America) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 18:28:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Federal Power Grab Threatens Your Rights Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19981002203047.0080d100@mailhost.IntNet.net> Massive New Power Grab By The Feds -- gun owners' constitutional rights in jeopardy Gun Owners of America E-Mail/FAX Alert 8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151 Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408 http://www.gunowners.org First, an update on Smith's "Anti-Brady" amendment: The pro-gun Smith amendment that passed the Senate in July is still awaiting action in a House-Senate conference committee. In fact, the House still has yet to pick the House conferees. GOA will keep you updated on this important legislation which would put the brakes on FBI's ability to register and tax gun owners. Keep calling your legislators (202-224-3121) and urge them to oppose the Commerce-Justice-State bill UNLESS it keeps the Smith language 100 percent intact. (Friday, October 2, 1998)-- Rep. Bob Barr has discovered that Janet Reno's Department of Justice (DOJ) is shopping around a legislative "wish list" to further erode our constitutional liberties. They are hoping to take advantage of the chaotic situation in Washington to "load up" an appropriations bill with a number of frightening expansions of federal power: * Enlarged asset forfeiture provisions to allow the FBI to seize personal property in both criminal and civil matters (your entire gun collection would be at risk) * A vastly expanded definition of terrorism to include domestic crimes having no relationship to terrorism (fighting "terrorism" is a new tactic of the gun grabbers, especially since the Supreme Court has stated that the Commerce Clause is no longer sufficient) * The ability to commandeer personnel from other federal agencies without reimbursement (just in case they need more agents for the next Waco) * Authority to force telephone and Internet companies to divulge information on their customers without a warrant (someone posts a message threatening the President to a gun list, and the feds demand the names and addresses of everyone who received the offending message) * Expanded wiretap authority to allow "roving" wiretaps of innocent citizens and gun owners, and wiretaps without any court authority whatsoever (so much for the Fourth Amendment) * Loosening of Posse Comitatus restrictions to allow more military involvement in domestic law enforcement (further blurring the line between police and military, which means destroying targets rather than making arrests) * The establishment of a permanent "FBI Police Force" (one could only speculate as to how bad this would be) * The power to seize commercial transportation assets for federal use (like the rest of the wish list, there is zero constitutional authority for this). In an era in which agencies of the federal government routinely target law-abiding gun owners for persecution, such assaults on our constitutional rights must be stopped. HERE'S WHAT TO DO: Contact your Representative and both Senators. Urge them to oppose any DOJ expansion of power through the appropriations process. Call 202-224-3121 or hit the GOA website at http://www.gunowners.org for phone, fax and e-mail of individual Congressional offices. Tell them to keep Smith in, and to keep the FBI out! **************************************************************** Did someone else forward this to you? To be certain of getting up to date information, please consider subscribing directly to the GOA E-Mail Alert Network. The service is totally free and carries no obligation. Your e-mail address remains confidential, and the volume is quite low, usually one or two messages per week. To subscribe, simply send a message (or forward this notice) to goamail at gunowners.org and indicate your state of residence in either the subject or the body. To unsubscribe, reply to any alert and ask to be removed. From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Fri Oct 2 04:13:39 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 19:13:39 +0800 Subject: A Number Theory Problem.... Message-ID: <199810030016.TAA26844@einstein.ssz.com> There is a desert which is 1000 miles across. There is a camel who can carry 1000 bananas maximum. The camel eats 1 banana per mile travelled. The camel has a total of 3000 bananas to begin with. What is the maximum number of bananas that the camel can get across to the other side uneaten? ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- A: 533 From tcmay at got.net Fri Oct 2 04:41:44 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 19:41:44 +0800 Subject: A Number Theory Problem.... In-Reply-To: <199810030016.TAA26844@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: At 5:16 PM -0700 10/2/98, Jim Choate wrote: >There is a desert which is 1000 miles across. There is a camel who can carry >1000 bananas maximum. The camel eats 1 banana per mile travelled. The camel >has a total of 3000 bananas to begin with. What is the maximum number of >bananas that the camel can get across to the other side uneaten? > > >A: 533 Some say 533 and a third. What was your point in posing this with the answer at the bottom. This problem shows up in the math newsgroups and is not an interesting CP topic. --Tim May Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From nobody at anon.olymp.org Fri Oct 2 05:43:07 1998 From: nobody at anon.olymp.org (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 20:43:07 +0800 Subject: Why do we need remailers, anyway? Message-ID: <72e02787804d6b91cb0f0733f08b61a8@anonymous> Reeza! wrote: > > ... the First Adulterer/Purjurer, you question why I > call him this > No, I'm questioning why you're telling *me* about it. -- an anonymous AOL32 user From emc at wire.insync.net Fri Oct 2 05:50:28 1998 From: emc at wire.insync.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 20:50:28 +0800 Subject: A Number Theory Problem.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199810030150.UAA09171@wire.insync.net> Tim writes: > Some say 533 and a third. This is correct if the camel eats bananas continuously, as opposed to discretely. Starting with 3,000 bananas, the camel can deposit 2,000 bananas 200 miles from his starting point. He can then deposit 1,000 bananas another 333 1/3 miles from that point. There now remain 466 2/3 miles to go, and bananas to eat, leaving the camel with 533 1/3 bananas upon reaching the other side. If the camel eats bananas in discrete quanta, we lose the fractional banana. -- Sponsor the DES Analytic Crack Project http://www.cyberspace.org/~enoch/crakfaq.html > > What was your point in posing this with the answer at the bottom. This > problem shows up in the math newsgroups and is not an interesting CP topic. > > --Tim May > > > > Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash. > ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- > Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, > ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero > W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, > Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. > > > From nobody at replay.com Fri Oct 2 05:52:23 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 20:52:23 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) Message-ID: <199810030154.DAA01318@replay.com> Richard, you seem to be missing one of the major reasons behind the little schism developing here. You say that proprietary software developers shouldn't expect the GNU project to help them for nothing in return. Thing is, Cypherpunks *want* to help with crypto -- even if those we help make proprietary software, and even if we get nothing for our help -- and if GNU folks don't do that, well, we just won't be GNU folks. (More generally (and more abrasively), we'd like to make a license suited to our goals -- meaning one promoting placement of easy-to-use cryptography wherever it can be useful (including (gasp) in proprietary software) and discouraging the spread of incompetently-done, weak, or escrowed crypto -- and the GNU GPL just isn't it) By the way, regarding the GNU GPL's interaction with export regs: In general, the fact that action A is illegal does not mean you must include a requirement in your distribution terms not to do A. ... I agree that what you say is correct and, logically, should apply to crypto regs*, but in practice, failing to include the requirement you mention is asking for trouble. Ask Cypherpunks if you want to know more about that, as I believe elaboration in this post would draw s from our beloved retromoderator. * Logically, crypto regs shouldn't even exist in a marginally free society, but, again, this is deep in territory. From J-Dog at Elitehackers.org Fri Oct 2 07:04:40 1998 From: J-Dog at Elitehackers.org (J-Dog) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 22:04:40 +0800 Subject: Is the .to (Tonga) domain completely rogue and should beremoved? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: if you want the long version of it, join gthe NANOG list (North American Network Operators Group).. but basically, this TLD is mostly a spam/rogue TLD.... J-Dog On Sat, 3 Oct 1998, Ulf [iso-8859-1] M�ller wrote: > As mentioned out in NTK, Internet has put set Tuvalu top-level domain > "on hold". What has happened? > > > Registrant: > Tuvalu top-level domain TV17-DOM > Ministry of Finance and Tourism > Funafuti, > TUVALU > > Domain Name: TV > Domain Status: On Hold > > Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact: > Internet Assigned Numbers Authority IANA iana at iana.org > (310) 822-1511 > > Record last updated on 15-Sep-98. > Record created on 18-Mar-96. > Database last updated on 2-Oct-98 03:53:16 EDT. > From adam at yaredesigns.com Fri Oct 2 22:31:31 1998 From: adam at yaredesigns.com (Adam Yared) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 22:31:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Ozeafood.com - Update and Special Offer Message-ID: <003001bdee7e$f69b3a20$d1f125cb@workstation> Attention: Seafood Traders _______________________________________________ We would like to introduce the premier Seafood Information Resource for Australian Seafood Importers and Exporters and Seafood Traders from around the world. Over 6 months of extensive R&D has resulted in a simple, usefull online trading system designed specifically for the industry. Ozeafood.com is a searchable database of Australian Seafood Importers and Exporters and their products. The member has full control over their own listing of products via a management section. Advanced features of the service allow members to update their pricing and stock information, and trade seafood online. Take advantage of our special 60 day trial offer. Go to www.ozeafood.com and enter your companies details. For information via autoresponder send Email to options at ozeafood.com If you would like to discuss an Internet Marketing Strategy, please call us on 1800 506 516 ( Australian Residents Only ) Ozeafood.com - Australian Seafood Information Resource _____________________________________________ Website - www.ozeafood.com Email - info at ozeafood.com Phone Int + 617 5445 8884 Fax Int + 617 5445 8193 From tcmay at got.net Fri Oct 2 08:05:41 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 23:05:41 +0800 Subject: importance of motivation In-Reply-To: <199810012036.VAA09025@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: At 1:46 AM -0700 10/2/98, Blanc wrote: >Regarding ADD and difficulties with attention spans: >This could explain ADD/ADHD to some extent, and it probably would yield >important insights for >someone to examine their own true motivations when they have problems >concentrating or paying >attention. > >And there certainly seems to be a significant number of cpunks who claim >to have this 'syndrome'. Any trendy new diagnosis always gets some recruits...dyslexia, ADD (*), the abuse excuse, etc. (* Like any trendy thing, it gets renamed to keep its panache. ADD has been renamed to something with four letters, which I now forget (must be ADD).) We've had some nutballs and losers (luser spelling: loosers) on this list. People who claim the reason they can't make a coherent argument or hold a steady job is because of something some psychobabbler told them was their excuse. So what else is nu beside e over h? --Tim May Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From blancw at cnw.com Fri Oct 2 12:54:25 1998 From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 03:54:25 +0800 Subject: importance of motivation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000c01bdeeac$6ed6d300$3d8195cf@blanc> >From Tim May: : Any trendy new diagnosis always gets some recruits...dyslexia, ADD (*), the : abuse excuse, etc. : : (* Like any trendy thing, it gets renamed to keep its panache. ADD has been : renamed to something with four letters, which I now forget (must be ADD).) : : We've had some nutballs and losers (luser spelling: loosers) on this list. : People who claim the reason they can't make a coherent argument or hold a : steady job is because of something some psychobabbler told them was their : excuse. ............................................................................. You're just a bit subtle, Tim. It is true that ineffectual psychotherapists and their victim patients often conspire together to maintain that presentation of the patient as being an invalid, a victim of circumstance, for whatever benefits that confers on them both. But sometimes these patients are children, who wouldn't know how to cooperate in such deceptions. And although several loons have cycled through the list, PM is not a loon, and he said he definitely could not maintain his attention without medicine for ADD. Not knowing PM very well, I couldn't very well argue with him over whether it was more the problem of an error in his self-assessment and true interest, and less a medical condition labelled ADD. (he insisted that he loves what he does) It can be hard to identify deceptions, lies, and self-deceptions. There's so many things - people, drugs, etc - which can prevent one from self-discovery and admission, or things which act as inducements towards continuing such weaknesses. For certain adults, I expect that it is a lack of courage and desire for self-reliance which are the main obstacles standing in the way of getting over their excuse for acting like 'losers'. But there are some legitimite problems - nervous, attentional difficulties - which people can develop and which, aside from the trendy names given to them, could be improved with serious therapeutic attention. You'd have to work to know yourself well, to determine which the real problem is. l again offer this web site which has information on ways to help oneself towards strengthening one's physical system to get over attentional and similar problems: http://www.handle.org. It is here in Seattle, but there is now a therapist located in New York City, and clinicians also travel to other states and will performa evaluations there (there's a schedule of events listing any travels to cities in the U.S.) .. Blanc From rah at shipwright.com Fri Oct 2 16:37:19 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 07:37:19 +0800 Subject: Netsurfer Digest: Vol. 04, #29 Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text From: editor-bounce at netsurf.com Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 19:22:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: smtp2.zocalo.net: editor set sender to editor-bounce at netsurf.com using -f Subject: Netsurfer Digest: Vol. 04, #29 Mime-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk NETSURFER DIGEST More Signal, Less Noise Volume 04, Issue 29 Wednesday, September 30, 1998 BREAKING SURF Credit Card Data Compromised at Online Auction Sites Mark Dodd owns AuctionWatch, a neat auction site information center. He was running searches on the major search engines and by sheer accident uncovered a security hole in some software used by many of the online auction houses. It's a big one, too. If the auction site misconfigures its software, and apparently many do, the first happy hacker to come along can steal its customers' credit card numbers and addresses. Mark went to CNet with the story, which warned many of the affected sites of the potential havoc and scooped up a good story in the process. Remember, the safety of your credit card data is only as good as the security savvy of the webmaster guarding it. AuctionWatch: http://www.auctionwatch.com/ CNet: http://www.news.com/SpecialFeatures/0,5,26760,00.html New Hacker Tactic: Slow, Coordinated Attacks from Multiple Locations A clever new twist in the evolutionary arms race between hackers and online security forces gives us an excuse to bring you this fascinating Web site. Hackers, it seems, have discovered herding behavior. Their latest tactic is to coordinate probes and attacks against online sites from a large number of separate machines and over a long period of time. By limiting probes to rates as low as two per hour and dispersing their sources, hackers can probe beneath current security software's threshold of detection. The Navy Cooperative Intrusion Detection Evaluation and Response team (CIDER) just released a report on the technique. The CIDER site is also worth visiting for information on security and intrusion detection software projects, notably a database comparing commercial and government tools. Cool spook stuff. CIDER: http://www.nswc.navy.mil/ISSEC/CID/ Report: http://www.nswc.navy.mil/ISSEC/CID/co-ordinated_analysis.txt CONTACT AND SUBSCRIPTION INFORMATION Netsurfer Digest Home Page: Subscribe, Unsubscribe: Frequently Asked Questions: Submission of Newsworthy Items: Letters to the Editor: Advertiser and Sponsor Inquiries: Netsurfer Communications: http://www.netsurf.com/nsd/ http://www.netsurf.com/nsd/subscribe. html http://www.netsurf.com/nsd/ndfaq.html pressroom at netsurf.com editor at netsurf.com sales at netsurf.com http://www.netsurf.com/ CREDITS Publisher: Arthur Bebak Editor: Lawrence Nyveen Contributing Editor: Production Manager: Bill Woodcock Copy Editor: Elvi Dalgaard Netsurfer Communications, Inc. President: Arthur Bebak Vice President: S.M. Lieu Writers and Netsurfers: Sue Abbott Regan Avery Kirsty Brooks Judith David Joanne Eglash Lisa Hamilton Jay Mills Elizabeth Rollins Kenneth Schulze NETSURFER DIGEST � 1998 Netsurfer Communications, Inc. All rights reserved. NETSURFER DIGEST is a trademark of Netsurfer Communications, Inc. --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Fri Oct 2 17:09:44 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 08:09:44 +0800 Subject: importance of motivation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 5:00 AM -0400 on 10/3/98, Blanc wrote about Tim's troll: > : We've had some nutballs and losers (luser spelling: loosers) on this list. > : People who claim the reason they can't make a coherent argument or hold a > : steady job is because of something some psychobabbler told them was their > : excuse. > ............................................................................. > > > You're just a bit subtle, Tim. Nah. Tim is about as subtle as a loud fart in a Volkswagen. Or a "troll" under a bridge. But then, of course, there's actual neuroscience. I'm pretty epistemological about these things. I for one think that "talking therapy" is half next to witchcraft, and that that, and other "biological" approaches to knowlege, where you categorize and catalog things subjectively and then deduce the world accordingly without benefit of mathematics, or physics, or chemistry is, frequently, a "luser's" paradise. Phrenology and astrology come to mind, along with, oddly enough, people who study lightning without physics, and, of course, so-called "technical" stock market analysts. ("Fibbronacci retracement", my ass...) However, I *do* know that when I take ritalin, I can do boring stuff much easier. I'm a very grouchy bastard, but the boring stuff gets done. And, a very large percentage of people with the DSM-V "diagnosis" of ADHD (H, for "hyperactive", is Tim's lost initial there, probably a Freudian slip ;-)), also focus better with ritalin or dexedrine in their bloodstreams, at least in clinical trials. I also know that when you run PET scans of people who have ADD (I'm not as hyperactive as I was as a kid...) their brains look markedly different from those of "normal" people when they try to concentrate on something too long. I expect that, fairly shortly, neuroscience and psychopharmacology will tell us all sorts of things about things formerly attributed to mysticism, ethics, poor mental hygeine, and, of course, motivation. Scientific determinism may be a bitch, but she's sure an elegant one. Hell, maybe even "losers" will be curable, someday, if they want to be. Or even cyphertrolls, for that matter. Yours in dereliction and lassitude, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From jya at pipeline.com Fri Oct 2 18:36:03 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 09:36:03 +0800 Subject: importance of motivation In-Reply-To: <000c01bdeeac$6ed6d300$3d8195cf@blanc> Message-ID: <199810031436.KAA00893@camel7.mindspring.com> 'Twould be nice if rationality waned for a generation or many, give us time to recover from being overdosed with it since the ahem Renaissance, and suffering the damage of Renaissance Persons with pseudo-mastery of more than they know how to handle except to blow the shit out of a world they cannot truly comprehend except as a clueless wad defying self-annointe High IQers. De Toqueville adored patronizing the "American People" of his time what they were good and bad at (one of the earliest promoters of AADD). And every Sheeplemongering weenie who lusts to be Somebody whips out the bullfrog's constitutional and citers it as wisdom for the masses needing superior guidance -- that is from-the-mount sermonizing from the wannabe mighty-mites who really just want to avoid hard labor, an agenda the masses don't get advised to abide. What's inspiring about misbehavior, for whatever cause, is that it drives the Reasonable People, those who know so little they need armoring with tin-thin rationality, into a panic of recognition of the alluring siren call to chuck overcontrol and enjoy getting under the thinskin of the hypo-rougers of a reality ever shedding its skin for new realities. Up ADD, hurrah for hyperrationality, the way past certain knowledge and comforting wisdom of the way things are not, never were, never will be. Medevial superstition, plague, sloth and licentiousness, now there's a cheap Ritalin for science and economy and law and decency all too reasonable, all too nearly inescapable, all too non-fictional to be believed. From mjmotyka at mistic.net Fri Oct 2 20:05:05 1998 From: mjmotyka at mistic.net (Michael Motyka) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 11:05:05 +0800 Subject: A Number Theory Problem Message-ID: <361657FE.43E3@mistic.net> > There is a desert which is 1000 miles across. There is a camel who can carry > 1000 bananas maximum. The camel eats 1 banana per mile travelled. The camel > has a total of 3000 bananas to begin with. What is the maximum number of > bananas that the camel can get across to the other side uneaten? My camels don't understand/can't eat fractional bananas. My first camel put 2000 bananas at 200 miles then 1001 bananas at 533 miles then left 1 banana at mile 533 and sprinted for home, arriving with 533 bananas My second camel put 2000 bananas at 200 miles then 1001 bananas at 533 miles then ate 1 banana at mile 533 and found the energy to move the 1000 bananas to mile 534 and sprinted for home, arriving with 534 bananas My third camel put 2000 bananas at 200 miles then 1001 bananas at 533 miles then ate 1 banana at mile 533 and found the energy to move the 1000 bananas to mile 534 and sprinted for home, arriving with 535 bananas figuring he'd pay for his last mile with credit. My fourth camel, the biggest strongest camel, was already waiting at the destination and charged each of the other camels a 50% banana tax, rounded up to the nearest banana, plus a 10 banana collection fee and left with 832 bananas and didn't have to do anything but paperwork while the other camels were now short of bananas and had to find a new way to get more bananas. Mike From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Fri Oct 2 21:22:37 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 12:22:37 +0800 Subject: 2 books of potential interest... Message-ID: <199810031725.MAA28225@einstein.ssz.com> Hello, I was in Bookstop a while ago and noticed two books that could be of potential interest. The first I didn't buy, "We were soldiers once....and young", about the Ia Drang valley incident in Nov. of 65 (I had stated it was in '64 in the discussion about "The Best and Brightest"). It is written from notes and interviews with the survivors apparently. For those who are interested in the issues that were involved in the Vietnam War it may be of some use. The Law Enforcement Handbook D. Rowland, J. Bailey ISBN 1-56619-471-7 $6.98 (in the cheap books section) Looks to discuss a majority of police proceedures and details the items of interest to police officers in performing their duty. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rah at shipwright.com Fri Oct 2 21:27:55 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 12:27:55 +0800 Subject: IP: Wired News: Report of military personnel medical records hackis FALSE Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Delivered-To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com From: Bridget973 at aol.com Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 22:10:54 EDT To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: IP: Wired News: Report of military personnel medical records hack is FALSE Sender: owner-ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Precedence: list Reply-To: Bridget973 at aol.com http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/15372.html Pentagon Takes Back Hack Wired News Report 7:45 p.m. 1.Oct.98.PDT The US Department of Defense said Thursday last week's report of crackers penetrating military Web sites and altering soldiers' medical files were inaccurate. Instead, a "Red Team" of American military computer experts carried out a simulated attack designed to test the security of the Pentagon's computer networks, said a spokeswoman for the Defense Department. "The simulated attack is part of the recent exercises to assess the danger to unclassified material, such as personnel records," Suzan Hansen said Thursday. The confusion arose last week, when Money told the Armed Forces Communications and Electronics Association Conference that crackers had accessed a medical database in the southeastern United States and changed blood types in soldiers' records. Hansen said that Money was merely referring to a Red Team exercise, not a real cyberattack. At the conference, Money reportedly said that the Red Team exercise prompted the Pentagon to develop a more restrictive security policy on the type of information that will be stored in military computers connected to the Internet. -- bridget973 at aol.com Black Helicopters on the Horizon: http://members.xoom.com/bridget973 ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Fri Oct 2 21:53:26 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 12:53:26 +0800 Subject: IP: Americans for Computer Privacy Call for Action in Congress Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Delivered-To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com X-Sender: believer at telepath.com Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 09:14:11 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Americans for Computer Privacy Call for Action in Congress Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Precedence: list Reply-To: believer at telepath.com Source: US Newswire http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/1002-121.txt Americans for Computer Privacy Call for Action in Congress U.S. Newswire 2 Oct 14:30 Americans for Computer Privacy Call for Action in 106th Congress To: Assignment Desk, Daybook Editor, Technology Writer Contact: Sue Richard for Americans for Computer Privacy, 202-625-1256, E-mail: suer(At)dittusgroup.com News Advisory: WHAT: Americans for Computer Privacy (ACP) will issue a coalition letter to House and Senate leaders urging legislation in the next Congress that will build on the reforms in encryption policy recently announced by the Administration. ACP will also report on the coalition's growth and future plans, as well as the response to its on-line advertising initiative. WHO: ACP Executive Director Ed Gillespie; Rep. Bob Goodlatte (R-Va.); Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-Calif.); Rep. Sam Gejdenson (D-Conn.); Rep. Rick White (R-Wash.); Sen. John Ashcroft (R-Mo.); Sen. Conrad Burns (R-Mont.); Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.); Robert Holleyman, Business Software Alliance; Jerry Berman, Center for Democracy and Technology; and Grover Norquist, Americans for Tax Reform. WHEN: Wednesday, Oct. 7, 11 a.m. WHERE: Room HC-7, U.S. Capitol, Washington, D.C. BACKGROUND: Since its formal launch in March 1998, ACP has worked closely with Congress and the Administration on encryption policy reform. While ACP acknowledges that progress has been made, the coalition believes the encryption issue is far from resolved. Americans for Computer Privacy brings together more than 100 companies and 40 associations representing financial services, manufacturing, telecommunications, high-tech and transportation, as well as law enforcement, civil-liberty, pro-family and taxpayer groups. ACP supports policies that advance the rights of American citizens to encode information without fear of government intrusion, and advocates the lifting of current export restrictions on U.S.-made encryption. For more information on ACP, please visit our website at www.computer privacy.org. A cybercast of the press conference will be available on the site on Thursday, Oct. 8. -0- /U.S. Newswire 202-347-2770/ 10/02 14:30 Copyright 1998, U.S. Newswire ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Fri Oct 2 21:56:41 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 12:56:41 +0800 Subject: Internet Sales Tax Killed [CNN] Message-ID: <199810031800.NAA28444@einstein.ssz.com> Note that I've added a few comments/notes between the supplied quoted sections. As always I've deleted for brevity. Forwarded message: > X-within-URL: http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1998/10/02/internet.tax.ap/ > By CURT ANDERSON > AP Tax Writer > > WASHINGTON (AP) Legislation allowing states to force mail order and > Internet businesses to collect sales taxes failed in the Senate Friday > as debate began on how to tax cyberspace commerce. > > Senators voted 65-30 to table, or kill, an amendment authorizing any > state to require companies with significant catalog, mail order or > Internet sales to collect their sales tax and send it back to the > state. > > The sponsor, Sen. Dale Bumpers, noted that every business operating in > a state with a sales tax must already collect and remit the revenue. > He said the amendment effectively would reverse a 1992 Supreme Court > decision preventing states from enforcing sales taxes on companies > located outside their borders. Section 8. The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State. (Note that it doesn't say "Congress shall make no law..." but rather is an absolute prohibition of taxes/duties on exports of states. It therefore falls under the "prohibited" clause of the 10th.) > "If they choose to have a sales tax, the federal government should > allow them to enforce it," said Bumpers, D-Ark. > > Opponents, however, called the measure a hidden tax increase and were > able easily to defeat it for the sixth straight year. > > "Since this tax has never been collected, there's only one way to view > it," said Commerce Committee Chairman John McCain, R-Ariz. As unconstitutional. [remainder deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org Fri Oct 2 22:03:04 1998 From: wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org (Rabid Wombat) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 13:03:04 +0800 Subject: NT5 Ships 96 years early!!! In-Reply-To: <361533DE.7B4DA16C@brainlink.com> Message-ID: I am dyslexic of Micro$oft. Prepare to have your ass laminated. On Fri, 2 Oct 1998, Sunder wrote: > Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 16:14:15 -0400 > From: Salvatore Denaro > Subject: NT5 Ships 96 years early > > >From the MS timeline: > > http://www.microsoft.com/WindowsNT5/workstation/default.asp > > WINDOWS NT SERVER 5.0 > DECEMBER 30, 1899 -- Find out about Windows NT Server 5.0 and how it builds > upon the strengths of version 4.0 to provide a platform that is faster, > more reliable, and easier to manage. > > -- > Salvatore Denaro > sal at panix.com > > From nobody at replay.com Fri Oct 2 22:39:22 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 13:39:22 +0800 Subject: Is the .to (Tonga) domain completely rogue and should be removed? Message-ID: <199810031841.UAA06353@replay.com> Read RFC 1123, section 5.2.3. 5.2.3 VRFY and EXPN Commands: RFC-821 Section 3.3 A receiver-SMTP MUST implement VRFY and SHOULD implement EXPN (this requirement overrides RFC-821). However, there MAY be configuration information to disable VRFY and EXPN in a particular installation; this might even allow EXPN to be disabled for selected lists. A new reply code is defined for the VRFY command: 252 Cannot VRFY user (e.g., info is not local), but will take message for this user and attempt delivery. DISCUSSION: SMTP users and administrators make regular use of these commands for diagnosing mail delivery problems. With the increasing use of multi-level mailing list expansion (sometimes more than two levels), EXPN has been increasingly important for diagnosing inadvertent mail loops. On the other hand, some feel that EXPN represents a significant privacy, and perhaps even a security, exposure. VRFY is hardly an "incorrect SMTP command." >Your reasoning as to why its responses to incorrect SMTP >commands constitutes evidence that the .TO domain is "negligent", >"mismanaged" and "an attractive resource for criminal activities" >is ironically incorrect. In fact, having an *unsecured* port 25 open to mail >relaying would be negligent. >Best regards, >- Eric Gullichsen > Tonic Corporation > Kingdom of Tonga Network Information Center > http://www.tonic.to > Email: egullich at tonic.to From jf_avon at citenet.net Fri Oct 2 23:09:12 1998 From: jf_avon at citenet.net (Jean-Francois Avon) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 14:09:12 +0800 Subject: Govt breaks the law. They do it again! Message-ID: <199810031856.OAA12855@cti06.citenet.net> THIS MESSAGE SENT AND/OR Cc'ed TO: Paul Martin, Finance Minister Anne McLellan, Justice Minister Gary Breitkreuz, Reform Party MP Dr. Bernard Patry, Pierrefonds-Dollars MP Le Qu�becois Libre auditoire at montreal.src.ca cypherpunks at toad.com Sporting.Shooters.Association at adelaide.on.net "Donna Ferolie" Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 16:26:47 -0600 From: David A Tomlinson Subject: Re: NEW ILLEGAL REQUIREMENTS >Canadian Firearms at CFC 10/01/98 09:17 AM >Bulletin No. 23 >Registration and the Firearms Identification Number >You will receive a Registration Certificate for each firearm you >register. Each Registration Certificate will have a unique number. >This will be the Firearms Identification Number (FIN) issued by the >Registrar, head of the Canadian Firearms Registry. The FIN is the >file number you will use for all contact with the office of the >Registrar. If your firearm has no serial number, or if the serial >number, combined with other features of the firearm, is not enough >to tell it apart from all other firearms, you will have to put the >FIN on your firearm. The Registrar will tell you if the FIN must >be placed on your firearm. The FIN will be required on nearly all firearms, as few of them have a well-documented system of Serial numbers that is KNOWN and PROVABLE. Many manufacturers -- especially manufacturers of military firearms for export -- duplicate Serial numbers with monotonous regularity. Others recycle the numbers -- as Iver Johnson did, numbering 9,000,000 revolvers with a machine capable of only 99,999 numbers before starting to recycle. Others, particularly Eastern manufacturers, use digits and/or letters that the registration system cannot handle (Cyrillic letters, for example). >Attaching the FIN to Your Firearm >You will have to put the FIN on your firearm only if the firearm >has no serial number or the serial number is not unique. There is no way to tell whether or not a particular Serial number is UNIQUE. The word "unique" designates an absolute -- That is, it is guaranteed that there is NO other firearm of that type with that Serial number. That is a standard that is clearly unreachable. The Serial number is an indicator, but it can never be certified as "unique" because there is always at least the problem of fraud in the factory producing one or more firearms with duplicated Serial numbers. >If you >have to put the FIN on your firearm, you have a choice of how you >apply it in three situations: 1) if you own your firearm on >December 1, 1998; 2) if your firearm was manufactured before >December 1 and imported into Canada on or after December 1, 1998; >or, 3) if you, as a licensed business, specially import the firearm >for a short time only (such as a film company making a movie in >Canada). In these cases, you may attach a FIN using a special >sticker provided by the Registrar or, you may permanently engrave >or stamp the FIN on your firearm. The above is a very muddled paragraph, which I split into two parts. The above section apparently identifies the three classes of firearms which can be identified by the use of a permanent "sticky." It offers the OPTION of stamping of engraving the FIN on the "frame or receiver" of the firearm. > With all other firearms needing >unique identification, you must permanently engrave or stamp the >FIN. In most cases, the FIN must be easy to read and on a visible >part of the frame or receiver (see next CFC Bulletin for further >details). You will have 30 days from the issue date on the >Registration Certificate to attach the special sticker to your >firearm. You will have 90 days from the issue date on the >Registration Certificate to permanently engrave or stamp the FIN >on your firearm. This second half of the paragraph (above) requires engraving or stamping of the FIN on all other classes of firearms, such as all firearms manufactured after 01 Dec 98. >For more information, or for a copy of the Firearms Act, its >regulations and other CFC publications, contact us at: >1-800-731-4000 (Toll Free) >Web site: http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/ >E-mail: canadian.firearms at justice.x400.gc.ca Fortunately, all of this is apparently NULL AND VOID. No such requirements may be demanded by the CFC or CFR/FRAS unless they are: 1. required by the legislation (C-68's Firearms Act or Criminal Code), or 2. the subject of an Order in Council authorized to be made by the legislation. The legislation apparently says nothing whatever about where or how the Serial number must be on the firearm, and does not mention the Firearms Identification Number concept at all; therefore, the above requirements are apparently null and void as far as the legislation is concerned. The legislation does not authorize the making of any regulation regarding markings on firearms, and therefore the above rules apparently cannot be created by Order in Council. Once again, this is apparently a defective attempt to amend defective legislation by false pretences, and an attempt by the CFC and CFR/FRAS to legislate -- but legislation is beyond their power, so this entire set of requirements is apparently null and void. A copy of this is being sent to the CFC and to CFR/FRAS. CFC and CFR/FRAS, this is a demand for an explanation as to why this apparently illegal and misleading information was published and distributed. Please reply to the Canadian Firearms Digest with all possible speed, and either explain why you think you had the authority to publish it -- or publish a retraction. Dave Tomlinson, NFA -- CLOG: all Conservative or Liberal Ottawa Governments ------------------------------ Jean-Francois�Avon,�B.Sc.�Physics,�Montreal,�Canada ��DePompadour,�Soci�t�d'Importation�Lt�e �����Limoges�fine�porcelain�and�french�crystal ��JFA�Technologies,�R&D�physicists�&�engineers �����Instrumentation�&�control,�LabView�programming PGP�keys:�http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html PGP�ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E�F87CC86FAEFEF891� PGP�ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0�254011193237822C From ulf at fitug.de Fri Oct 2 23:09:53 1998 From: ulf at fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 14:09:53 +0800 Subject: Is the .to (Tonga) domain completely rogue and should be removed? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >>[Tuvalu TLD put on hold] >if you want the long version of it, join gthe NANOG list (North American >Network Operators Group).. but basically, this TLD is mostly a spam/rogue >TLD.... That is quite scary. If someone outside the US uses a .COM or other generic TLD name, even if the name has been used for years and is a, say, European trademark, anyone in the US can register that name as a trademark, and Internic will take the name away from the legitimate owner. You may say that's ok because `generic' TLDs are de facto American, but now Internic even decides to disable the name space of a sovereign state? If there is any such thing as Infowar, I guess this must be it. In case the upcoming EU regulation on unsolicited mailings has the effect some claim it will, can Internic just declare .DE a spammer domain and disable FITUG's address as well? Dealing with contents is not any naming authority's business. It wouldn't be even if you actually needed a domain to send spam. From stuffed at stuffed.net Sat Oct 3 14:20:23 1998 From: stuffed at stuffed.net (STUFFED NEWS DAILY) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 14:20:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: STUFFED IS NOW FASTER THAN EVER/WE HAVE 1,000S OF NEW MEGA-HOT FREE PICS! Message-ID: <19981003071001.20884.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com> + 30 MEGA HI-RES PICS + 5 SUPER-HORNY SEXY STORIES + I SAW SATAN IN MY BURGER + AMERICANS VERY SLOW IN BED + MMMMM THAT WAS GOOD + THE CULT OF TWINKIE + THE BEST OF EUREKA ----> http://stuffed.net/98/10/3/ <---- Welcome to today's issue of Stuffed. To read it you should click on the URL above. If it is not made clickable by your email program you will need to use your mouse to highlight the URL, copy it and then paste it into your browser (then press Return). This email is never sent unsolicited. Stuffed is the supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full instructions on unsubscribing are in every issue of Eureka! ----> http://stuffed.net/98/10/3/ <---- From bill.stewart at pobox.com Sat Oct 3 01:16:09 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 16:16:09 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) In-Reply-To: <199809281845.TAA18662@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981003003611.00b80100@idiom.com> >> The big issue I see with GPL and Crypto software is that with the GPL >> you cannot add any redistribution restrictions. The problem is that ... >Ahh, but it's not *you* who's putting the restrictions on your software, >but the U.S. government. As far as I know (not that I'm a lawyer, or >anything) the U.S. govt. doesn't care what your license says --if it's >strong crypto, it's not supposed to be exported. Depends on how you write your restrictions - I've seen products that range from "We the copyright holder refuse to let you export it and we'll only sell it to Real Americans with Real US Pedigree Papers who agree that the Real Yankee Government owns their rights to everything and agree not to think about letting any Furriners see it" to "By the way, the US government may not let you export it from the territory they so unreasonably claim, so you might want to check with a lawyer if that sort of thing bothers you." Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From vznuri at netcom.com Sat Oct 3 03:38:50 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 18:38:50 +0800 Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.9: Canada Frees Up Crypto--WIRED Message-ID: <199810032339.QAA27717@netcom13.netcom.com> From: "ama-gi ISPI" Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.9: Canada Frees Up Crypto--WIRED Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 00:10:43 -0700 To: ISPI Clips 5.9: Canada Frees Up Crypto News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) Friday October 2, 1998 ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This From: WIRED News, September 1, 1998 http://www.wired.com Canada Frees Up Crypto http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/15362.html by Matt Friedman, mwf at total.net In a move that will almost certainly create friction between the US and Canada, the Canadian government has released a new cryptography policy that encourages the proliferation of powerful data-scrambling technologies. The policy, announced Thursday by John Manley, the minister of industry, makes it clear that Canadians will not have to submit to mandatory key recovery, which would give the government access to all scrambled communications. The document also heads off the establishment of a national public key infrastructure. "In terms of domestic policy, it couldn't be better," says David Jones, president of Electronic Frontier Canada. "Industry Canada is essentially saying that, domestically, you can pretty much do whatever you want with cryptography." An American civil liberties advocate was similarly impressed. "It is great. It's a policy for the 21st century, as opposed to the US government's policy update from last week, which is too little, too late," said Susan Landau, a cryptography policy expert and the co-author of Privacy on the Line: The Politics of Wiretapping and Encryption. Canada's new policy is a setback to the country's "signals intelligence" spy agencies. Industry Canada had been under considerable pressure from the intelligence and law-enforcement communities, both at home and in the United States, to establish domestic crypto controls. "The US has sent a number of delegations to Canada, a number of times, to try and convince [the Canadian government], to go with a restrictive view," said David Banisar, policy director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center in Washington, DC. "The Canadians clearly said they were not interested." Last winter, when Ottawa published a public white paper on cryptography and solicited comments from the public and other branches of government, the Canadian Security Intelligence Service said that it was pushing for a public key-recovery plan. The CSIS is concerned both with domestic and foreign intelligence, sort of a combination of the FBI and CIA. "The ability to decrypt messages and data has a significant impact on our ability to monitor security threats to Canadians," said CSIS spokeswoman Marcia Wetherup at the time. Reached for comment Thursday morning, Wetherup said, "That continues to be the service's main concern at this time." While the Canadian government has rejected controls on domestic crypto, it is taking a wait-and-see attitude on exports. In the US, cryptography exports are strictly regulated, on the grounds that the technology might be used to conceal the communications of terrorists or hostile nations. "The Commerce Department is not going to be happy," Landau said. A Commerce Department official declined comment. Under the new policy, Ottawa will continue to work within the framework of the Wassenaar agreement. That document, an international treaty limiting the spread of munitions technologies, is currently being renegotiated. Sunny Handa, a cyberlaw specialist with the Montreal law firm Martineau Walker, points out that the new policy will not alter existing regulations governing the export of Canadian crypto technology or the re-export of technology originating in the United States. "The real issue now is export," he says. "That hasn't changed." The new policy does, however, make the point that the Canadian government will "deter the use [of crypto] in the commission of a crime," and in the concealment of evidence. Moreover, existing search-and-seizure laws will apply to encrypted messages. But Handa says that Industry Canada is simply "throwing a bone to the police." "Our search-and-seizure laws are pretty good right now," he says. "Citizens' rights are protected, and law enforcement officials can do their jobs. If Industry Canada has signaled that it's happy with them, we probably won't see new legislation in this area for years." "One way to view the issue of cryptography is as an issue of crime prevention, rather than crime detection," said Landau. "As we enter the wired world, cryptography will become extremely important to crime prevention, and the Canadians recognize that." Copyright � 1994-98 Wired Digital Inc. --------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------ ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research and educational purposes only. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases (up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message "Please enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to: ISPIClips at ama-gi.com . The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia (Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no government funding and takes a global perspective. ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research into electronic, personal and financial privacy with a view toward helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy. But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and generous financial support. If you value in the ISPI Clips service or if you are concerned about the erosion of your privacy in general, won't you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI Clips Supporter" or by taking out an institute Membership? We gratefully accept all contributions: Less than $60 ISPI Clips Supporter $60 - $99 Primary ISPI Membership (1 year) $100 - $300 Senior ISPI Membership (2 years) More than $300 Executive Council Membership (life) Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership. For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com . We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to any third party. ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Sat Oct 3 03:38:55 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 18:38:55 +0800 Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.10: 'Deadbeat' Parents Database Goes on Line Message-ID: <199810032339.QAA27729@netcom13.netcom.com> From: "ama-gi ISPI" Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.10: 'Deadbeat' Parents Database Goes on Line Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 00:11:28 -0700 To: ISPI Clips 5.10: 'Deadbeat' Parents Database Goes on Line News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) Friday October 2, 1998 ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This From: CNN Interactive, September 30, 1998 http://www.cnn.com National Registry to Track 'deadbeat' Parents Goes on Line: The Federal Case Registry will track the 16 million U.S. parents who are required to pay child support http://www.cnn.com/US/9809/30/deadbeat.registry/ WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A new national registry aimed at helping keep track of the 16 million U.S. parents required to pay child support goes on line Thursday. The Federal Case Registry is designed to help custodial parents who aren't receiving child support track down the non-custodial parents who owe the money. Once the "deadbeat" parent is located, even in another state, officials can ask his or her employer to withhold child support from paychecks, which the employer is obligated to do under federal law. "This is an exciting day of hope for children whose parents have abandoned them financially," said U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Secretary Donna Shalala in a statement. HHS figures show that states now collect about 22 percent of the $50 billion in back child support owed each year. The new database is expected to be particularly helpful in cases where the children live in a different state than the deadbeat parent. "Since one-third of all child support cases are interstate, we now can confidently close the loopholes for parents escaping their financial obligations," said Olivia Golden, an HHS assistant secretary. Custodial parents can enter information about the deadbeat parent in the registry. That information will then be checked against data in a separate registry, the National Directory of New Hires, which includes records for everyone who begins a new job. Critics of the registry concept say that many custodial parents who try to go after child support after a multi-year lapse won't have enough accurate data to make a match. Fathers' rights groups have also expressed concerns that the tracking system could be used to invade the privacy of law-abiding parents. However, Golden says the law that set up the registry prohibits unauthorized use of the data. Thirty-nine states will begin entering information into the registry immediately. The remaining 11 states are expected to come on board during 1999. Correspondent Jennifer Auther contributed to this report. � 1998 Cable News Network, Inc. --------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------ ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research and educational purposes only. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases (up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message "Please enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to: ISPIClips at ama-gi.com . The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia (Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no government funding and takes a global perspective. ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research into electronic, personal and financial privacy with a view toward helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy. But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and generous financial support. If you value in the ISPI Clips service or if you are concerned about the erosion of your privacy in general, won't you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI Clips Supporter" or by taking out an institute Membership? We gratefully accept all contributions: Less than $60 ISPI Clips Supporter $60 - $99 Primary ISPI Membership (1 year) $100 - $300 Senior ISPI Membership (2 years) More than $300 Executive Council Membership (life) Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership. For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com . We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to any third party. ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Sat Oct 3 03:38:55 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 18:38:55 +0800 Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.11: Canada Weighs in on Crypto--CNET Message-ID: <199810032339.QAA27741@netcom13.netcom.com> From: "ama-gi ISPI" Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.11: Canada Weighs in on Crypto--CNET Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 00:13:01 -0700 To: ISPI Clips 5.11: Canada Weighs in on Crypto--CNET News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) Friday October 2, 1998 ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This From: CNET News.con, October 1, 1998 http://www.news.com Canada Weighs in on Crypto http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,27044,00.html?st.ne.fd.mdh By Janet Kornblum, janetk at cnet.com Staff Writer, CNET News.com In a move aimed at encouraging e-commerce, the Canadian government today introduced a new policy with relatively loose restrictions on the export of encryption software. The new encryption policy, introduced today in a speech by John Manley, Canada's minister of industry, may be more notable for what it lacks: a mandatory requirement for controversial key recovery and powerful restrictions on strong encryption products. Encryption software is used to put a digital lock on private communication. To read an encrypted document, the recipient has to have a "key." The controversy over encryption has been a classic case of business and privacy interests vs. government. On one hand, businesses and privacy advocates want to be able to develop and sell products that are airtight as possible. On the other, governments--primarily the United States--want to be able to prevent outsiders from being able to digitally lock out law enforcement officials from their communication and thwarting efforts to prosecute wired criminals. Though the White House has loosened its stance on the export of encryption software, it still backs policies that make the practice difficult. Canada's Manley, on the other hand, specifically said the country "will not implement mandatory key recovery requirements or licensing regimes for certification authorities or trusted third parties." It does, however "encourage industry to establish responsible practices, such as key recovery techniques for stored data and industry-led accreditation of private sector certification authorities," he added. The government also pledged to make it easier for Canadian firms to export strong encryption products both by streamlining the export permit process and by making sure Canada's regulations are not tighter than those of competitors in other countries. "The policy underscores that Canada is open for electronic business," Manley said. "We are encouraging the widespread use of strong encryption and growth of export markets for Canadian technologies." David Banisar, policy director for the Electronic Privacy Information Center and an outspoken critic of the United States' tight export restrictions, today applauded most of Canada's new policy. "It definitely refutes the U.S.'s attempts to get Canada to restrict crypto in many ways," Banisar said. "It allows Canadian companies to export software pretty much of any size." He added that Canada's policy could help influence more liberal European rules on encryption exportation. "This won't force the U.S.'s hands, but what it does is it further isolates the U.S.," he said. However, Banisar did take exception to a proposal contained in the policy statement today that says the government will introduce legislation that specifically makes it "an offense to wrongfully disclose private encryption key information and to use cryptography to commit or hide evidence of a crime." Making cryptography itself a special circumstance in the commission of a crime is tantamount to adding special penalties for using "basic instruments of communication" such as a telephone or a pen, Banisar said. Unlike laws that single out the use of guns or other weapons specifically designed to produce physical damage, "this is not a technology that creates crimes," he said. "And because its intended use is going to be essentially ubiquitous this could be an additional penalty that could apply to any kind of crime." Copyright � 1995-98 CNET, Inc. --------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------ ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research and educational purposes only. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases (up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message "Please enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to: ISPIClips at ama-gi.com . The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia (Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no government funding and takes a global perspective. ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research into electronic, personal and financial privacy with a view toward helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy. But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and generous financial support. If you value in the ISPI Clips service or if you are concerned about the erosion of your privacy in general, won't you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI Clips Supporter" or by taking out an institute Membership? We gratefully accept all contributions: Less than $60 ISPI Clips Supporter $60 - $99 Primary ISPI Membership (1 year) $100 - $300 Senior ISPI Membership (2 years) More than $300 Executive Council Membership (life) Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership. For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com . We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to any third party. ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Sat Oct 3 03:38:55 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 18:38:55 +0800 Subject: IP: Wired News - The Golden Age of Hacktivism Message-ID: <199810032339.QAA27762@netcom13.netcom.com> From: Bridget973 at aol.com Subject: IP: Wired News - The Golden Age of Hacktivism Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 21:56:06 EDT To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/15129.html The Golden Age of Hacktivism by Niall McKay 4:00 a.m. 22.Sep.98.PDT On the eve of Sweden's general election, Internet saboteurs targeted the Web site of that country's right-wing Moderates political party, defacing pages and establishing links to the homepages of the left-wing party and a pornography site. But the Scandanavian crack Saturday was not the work of bored juveniles armed with a Unix account, a slice of easily compiled code, and a few hours to kill. It advanced a specific political agenda. "The future of activism is on the Internet," said Stanton McCandlish, program director of the Electronic Frontier Foundation. "More and more, what is considered an offline issue, such as protesting the treatment of the Zapatistas in Mexico, is being protested on the Net." In the computer-security community, it's called "hacktivism," a kind of electronic civil disobedience in which activists take direct action by breaking into or protesting with government or corporate computer systems. It's a kind of low-level information warfare, and it's on the rise. Last week, for example, a group of hackers called X-pilot rewrote the home page of a Mexican government site to protest what they said were instances of government corruption and censorship. The group, which did not reply to several emails, made the claims to the Hacker News Network. The hacktivists were bringing an offline issue into the online world, McClandish said. The phenomenon is becoming common enough that next month, the longtime computer-security group, the Cult of the Dead Cow will launch the resource site hacktivism.org. The site will host online workshops, demonstrations, and software tools for digital activists. "We want to provide resources to empower people who want to take part in activism on the Internet," said Oxblood Ruffian, a former United Nations consultant who belongs to the Cult of the Dead Cow. Oxblood Ruffian's group is no newcomer to hacktivism. They have been working with the Hong Kong Blondes, a near-mythical group of Chinese dissidents that have been infiltrating police and security networks in China in an effort to forewarn political targets of imminent arrests. In a recent Wired News article, a member of the group said it would target the networks and Web sites of US companies doing business with China. Other recent hacktivist actions include a wave of attacks in August that drew attention to alleged human rights abuses in Indonesia. In June, attacks on computer systems in India's atomic energy research lab protested that country's nuclear bomb tests. More recently, on Mexican Independence Day, a US-based group called Electronic Disturbance Theater targeted the Web site of Mexican President Ernesto Zedillo. The action was intended to protest Zedillo's alleged mistreatment of the Zapatista rebels in Chiapas. Nearly 8,000 people participated in the digital sit-in, which attempted to overwhelm the Mexican president's Web servers. "What we are trying to do is to find a place where the public can register their dissatisfaction in cyberspace, so that your everyday [mouse] clicker can participate in a public protest," said EDT co-founder Ricardo. The apparent increase in hacktivism may be due in part to the growing importance of the Internet as a means of communication. As more people go online, Web sites become high-profile targets. It also demonstrates that many government sites are fairly easy to crack, said one former member of Milw0rm, the now defunct group that defaced the Indian research lab's Web site. In an interview in Internet Relay Chat, the cracker rattled off a list of vulnerable US government Web sites -- including one hosting an electron particle accelerator and another of a US politician -- and their susceptibility to bugs. "They don't pay enough for computer people," said the cracker, who goes by the name t3k-9. "You get $50,000 for a $150,000 job." Some security experts also believe that there is a new generation of crackers emerging. "The rise in political cracking in the past couple of years is because we now have the first generation of kids that have grown up with the Net," John Vranesevich, founder of the computer security Web site AntiOnline. "The first generation of the kids that grew up hacking are now between 25 and 35 -� often the most politically active years in peoples' lives." "When the Cult of the Dead Cow was started in 1984, the average age [of our members] was 14, and they spent their time hacking soda machines," said Oxblood Ruffian. "But the last couple of years has marked a turning point for us. Our members are older, politicized, and extremely technically proficient." While hacktivists are lining up along one border, police and law enforcement officials are lining up along another. This year the FBI will establish a cyber warfare center called the National Infrastructure Protection Center. The US$64 million organization will replace the Computer Investigations and Infrastructure Threat Assessment Center and involve the intelligence community and the military. Allan Paller, director of research for the SANS Institute, said the FBI is staffing the new facility with the government's top security experts. "They are stealing people from good places, including a woman from the Department of Energy who was particularly good," he said in a recent interview. "They are taking brilliant people." Paller also said that a grassroots effort is under way in Washington to establish a National Intrusion Center, modeled after the Centers for Disease Control. "There is definitely an increased threat of cyber terrorism," said Stephen Berry, spokesman for the FBI press office in Washington. As offline protests -- which are protected in the United States by the constitution -- enter the next digital age, the question remains: How will the FBI draw the distinction between relatively benign online political protests and cyber terrorism? ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Sat Oct 3 03:38:55 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 18:38:55 +0800 Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.12: New Fingerprint Chip - Protection vs. Privacy Message-ID: <199810032339.QAA27773@netcom13.netcom.com> From: "ama-gi ISPI" Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.12: New Fingerprint Chip - Protection vs. Privacy Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 00:34:02 -0700 To: ISPI Clips 5.12: New Fingerprint Chip - Protection vs. Privacy News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) Saturday October 3, 1998 ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This From: The New York Times, September 28, 1998 http://www.nytimes.com PERSONAL COMPUTING: Tiny New Chip Could Pit Protection of Property Against Right of Privacy http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/98/09/cyber/compcol/29compcol-fixmer.ht ml By ROB FIXMER, rob at nytimes.com Tom Rowley seems uncomfortable in the role of braggart. A sheepish look comes over his face when he tells you, "We're going to change the way people live." But Rowley's assertion is not to be taken lightly. For one thing, he said those words once before, in the early 1980's, when the innovation he was introducing was a concept he called voice mail. For better or worse, he did change the way we live. The product that inspires his boast today is a humble-looking chip, about the size of a postage stamp and no thicker than a nickel. When attached to a computer, it reads fingerprints with a precision that meets the Federal Bureau of Investigation's standards for personal identification. Beginning early next year, consumers will see the fingerprint chip introduced in notebook computers, then in desktop devices. Every major manufacturer of computer hardware in the United States is believed to be in some stage of testing or developing products using the chip. Eventually, it is all but certain to be embedded in door and car locks, bank cards, cellular telephones, driver's licenses and the sundry other mundane objects that identify us as consumers and citizens and give us access to places and money. Rowley is the chief executive of Veridicom [ http://www.veridicom.com/ ], a tiny start-up company in Santa Clara, Calif. He is backed by venture capital from, among others, the Intel Corporation, which recognizes the chip's potential to open vast markets in consumer electronics, and Lucent Technologies, which owns the patents accrued by Bell Laboratories, where the chip was invented in the early and mid-1980's. Although the product, known as OpenTouch, is cutting-edge technology, it is low-tech by silicon standards, making it inexpensive to manufacture in large numbers. The Korean and Taiwanese companies under contract to produce it see Veridicom's chip as a way to milk a few more years from old fabrication plants that have already been fully depreciated and might otherwise be closed as obsolete. All of which means that the fingerprint chip, is going to be very inexpensive -- probably less than $10 per chip within 18 months of its introduction, and eventually even less, industry experts said. A low price means that it is almost certain to become far more widely used than voice mail, whether as OpenTouch, which Veridicom will introduce in November at the Comdex trade show, or as another company's competing product. Far less certain is the social and political impact of the fingerprint chip. It certainly can greatly enhance personal security. But depending on how it is used, it could have a profound impact on privacy, for better or worse. The paranoid will no doubt see in this chip a conspiracy by the Government or another Orwellian nightmare. The real threat, though, is not from Big Brother but from a legion of what a colleague refers to as "little brothers," business interests like magazine publishers, banks and indemnity companies that want to track our every move, profile our every passion, anticipate our every need either to persuade us to part with our money or to assess us as risks for credit or insurance. Credible identification cuts two ways when it comes to security and privacy. The same fingerprint reader that gives us secure access to our home or car can be used to trace our movements through office buildings, stores, schools and airports. That can be good or bad depending on the circumstances and what we are up to. I may not want anyone to know that I am in Room 1705 of the Acme Professional Building visiting my lawyer or psychiatrist or heart specialist or interviewing for a job -- unless the person tracking me is a fire marshal clearing a burning building. But if I lose my notebook computer on a flight to Seattle, I want to know that no one will be able to rifle through my files, because the manufacturer has frozen the code that reads the fingerprint chip so deeply in my computer's electronics that no amount of tampering will allow another person to boot it or to unscramble the data on my hard drive. On the other hand, without safeguards, the same fingerprint-identified passport that will be useless to a thief will allow governments around the world to track my every move. Perhaps the most ambiguous line between privacy threats and security will be the use of Veridicom's technology on the Internet. In many ways, it will be the ultimate "cookie," those files that Web sites place on our hard drives to identify us, or at least our computers, when we point our browsers in their direction. In some ways, this is beneficial. If the fingerprint reader on my computer serves as a certificate of identification when I buy something on line, the seller does not know my credit card number or whether I am paying with credit or cash. The seller may not even know my identity. Veridicom's chip assures the seller that I am who I claim to be without revealing who I am. Likewise, when used as an encryption key, the chip will guarantee that no one can unscramble and read my e-mail or other documents. But there is a darker side. Companies are already using cookies to create personal profiles of Internet users by aggregating every piece of information we surrender on Web sites. The very kinds of sites we visit reveal a great deal about us to those who want our money, and when we buy products or enter contests or register to use a site, we reveal not only who we are but a great deal about how we live. At the same time, a study released this summer by the Federal Trade Commission revealed that most businesses on the Web did not tell visitors how the information they surrendered would be used. In a few cases, the study found that companies sold information that they had promised users would be kept confidential. The Clinton Administration insists that for now, the infant electronic-commerce industries be allowed to police themselves in matters of privacy. That is frightening enough when our cookies give up information dropped on our treks through cyberspace. When everything we do on line can be tied to our credit and bank cards, driver's licenses and passports, the extra security we have gained might well be outweighed by the privacy we have lost. Not surprisingly, Tom Rowley spends most of his time these days trumpeting the potential benefits of his chip, but he does not deny its potential for mischief. After all, he admits, at times even voice mail "is a real pain." The social stakes this time around are a lot higher. PERSONAL COMPUTING is published weekly, on Tuesdays. Rob Fixmer at rob at nytimes.com welcomes your comments and suggestions. Copyright 1998 The New York Times Company --------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------ ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research and educational purposes only. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases (up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message "Please enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to: ISPIClips at ama-gi.com . The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia (Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no government funding and takes a global perspective. ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research into electronic, personal and financial privacy with a view toward helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy. But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and generous financial support. If you value in the ISPI Clips service or if you are concerned about the erosion of your privacy in general, won't you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI Clips Supporter" or by taking out an institute Membership? We gratefully accept all contributions: Less than $60 ISPI Clips Supporter $60 - $99 Primary ISPI Membership (1 year) $100 - $300 Senior ISPI Membership (2 years) More than $300 Executive Council Membership (life) Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership. For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com . We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to any third party. ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Sat Oct 3 03:38:55 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 18:38:55 +0800 Subject: IP: Got a Cause and a Computer? You Can Fight City Hall Message-ID: <199810032340.QAA27817@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Got a Cause and a Computer? You Can Fight City Hall Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 10:17:14 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com Source: New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/news/national/interactive-townhall.html October 3, 1998 Got a Cause and a Computer? You Can Fight City Hall By RICK LYMAN AUSTIN, Texas -- Bill Clinton seems to have generated the most petitions, calling for him to be impeached, to resign, to be left alone. Thirteen people have signed one demanding a ban on tigers and other exotic cats as pets. Eight favor the establishment of areas in national parks for nudists. But a petition demanding statehood for New York City attracted not a single signatory, not one, not even Donald Trump. In that dark epoch between the discovery of fire and the discovery of the World Wide Web, the Bolsheviks had to storm the Winter Palace to get their point across. Now it can all be done with the gentle click of a mouse button. "I got the idea when I was sitting at home in Austin watching a city council debate on cable television," Alex Sheshunoff, 24, said. "The issue they were discussing was very important, but the debate was really boring, enough to induce narcolepsy. I started wondering: How can you get citizens involved in the democratic process when they don't have time to spend three hours at a city council meeting waiting to make a three-minute statement?" His answer: E-The People, which describes itself as "America's Interactive Town Hall" and resides in cyberspace at www.e-thepeople.com. Those who find their way to the Web site, either directly or through one of the newspapers or nonprofit agencies that are Sheshunoff's partners, are given the chance to sign a petition already posted on the site, create a new petition or write a letter to government officials about whatever is stuck in their craw. "There have been a lot of people talking recently about the intersection of democracy and the Internet," Sheshunoff said, "but not a lot of people sitting down and writing the code. That's where we come in." E-The People has been open since August but is still trying to "stomp out the last of the bugs," Sheshunoff said, and should be fully operational in a month or so. The Web site, which also bills itself as "an Alex Sheshunoff Initiative," is designed to connect citizens with their government officials, local or national, and to turn a profit for Sheshunoff and his investors. For example, a Houston resident interested in protesting about the environment is led through a process of identifying whom he should contact (a click calls up a list that includes the governor, lieutenant governor, city council representative, 26 state representatives, eight state senators and 20 agency officials with specific responsibility for the environment). Then the resident can compose a message that is automatically sent as e-mail to whichever officials are selected, or as a fax, if the recipient has no e-mail address. It is all free for the petitioners and letter writers. Advertisers and media partners pay the freight. Messages can also be sent to the White House or to Congress, Sheshunoff said, but the central intent is to address local issues. "The president already received a half-million e-mails a month, but for a city council member to receive 10 letters on a single subject can have a real impact," he said. "This is really about local people solving local problems." The letters are treated as private mail, Sheshunoff said. E-The People takes no note of their content and promises it will sell none of the demographic data that might be collected in the process. Sheshunoff's initiative operates from an office on the 19th floor of a tower in downtown Austin, part of a suite of offices that are home to Alex Sheshunoff Management Services, the company run by his father, a well-known banking consultant. The younger Sheshunoff prowled his small room recently, a thatch of sandy hair brushing his forehead, occasionally grabbing for a purring cellular telephone while a team of young programmers hunched over keyboards frantically tapping in data. An American flag dominated one wall while a map of the United States filled another, showing the route of an 80-city transcontinental bus tour that Sheshunoff has been running to spread the word. The bus, decorated to resemble a mailbox, left Austin on Aug. 1 and has made its way across the Southwest, up the Pacific Coast and across the prairies into the Midwest, New England and New York. It is heading south on its return to Texas. So far, 45 newspapers have agreed to go into partnership with E-The People, meaning they will feature a link to the site on their own Web pages and share with E-The People any advertising revenues generated by surfers traversing that link. Among those signed up are The San Antonio Express-News, The Oregonian in Portland and The Daily News in New York. Sheshunoff is hoping for 100 media partners. Sheshunoff once considered a career in network television. While a student at Yale, he did some work for ABC News, as a production assistant and then reading his own short, personal essays in the wee hours. Then he read somewhere that the audience for network television news had dropped 30 percent since 1990. Sheshunoff said he spent his senior year "thinking about where news was going." This led him, as it has hundreds of others in his generation, to the Internet. His first effort was an online magazine developed as a way of allowing readers to pinpoint the restaurants and other venues nearest their homes. "We sold some of that underlying technology to newspapers and others, for their Web pages," he said. A similar process is used in E-The People, he said, but it is more sophisticated. "It's not as easy as it sounds," he said, "to take somebody's address and tell them who their elected officials are." Copyright 1998 The New York Times Company ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Sat Oct 3 03:39:02 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 18:39:02 +0800 Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.13: Identity Theft is Huge & Growing Message-ID: <199810032339.QAA27784@netcom13.netcom.com> From: "ama-gi ISPI" Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.13: Identity Theft is Huge & Growing Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 00:35:01 -0700 To: ISPI Clips 5.13: Identity Theft is Huge & Growing News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) Saturday October 3, 1998 ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This From: American Bar Association's, ABA Journal, October 1998 http://www.abanet.org IDENTITY THIEVES http://www.abanet.org/journal/oct98/10FIDENT.html Stealing someone's identity to buy everything from cars to toys and leaving the real person's credit rating in ruins may be the perfect crime because there is little that can be done to prosecute it. Until now. BY MICHAEL HIGGINS, higginsm at staff.abanet.org Sometime in the early 1990s, a con man named Scott Clinton Gilbert visited a resum� and printing shop in Las Vegas. His bill came to $185.30, and he paid in his usual fashion: He lied. Gilbert charged his purchase under the name "Robert Hartle." If anyone had questioned Gilbert's true identity, the scam artist was more than ready. He had obtained a "Robert Hartle" driver's license, Social Security card--even a birth certificate. Gilbert probably didn't think much of that small transaction. Before his fraud spree was done, he would stick the real Robert Hartle with debts of more than $110,000, including bills for three pickup trucks, two motorcycles and a double-wide mobile home. Gilbert, who later pleaded guilty to related charges, was one of thousands of criminals who quietly discovered what in an increasingly cashless society had become almost the perfect crime: identity theft. By posing as someone else, thieves found, they could steal in a way that left victims powerless and police uninterested. "It was a very easy crime," says Ed Mierswinsky, a consumer advocate at U.S. Public Interest Research Group in Washington, D.C. "Forget restitution. Consumers couldn't even obtain peace of mind" from seeing the criminals punished. Today, identity theft is still a vibrant and growing criminal enterprise, but its cover has been blown. Federal officials are holding summits and seminars to alert law enforcement officers to the crime. State legislators are pushing for tougher criminal penalties. And this fall, Congress is likely to vote on a bill that would make identity theft a federal felony, punishable by up to 15 years in prison. Another bill would give consumers more control over who has access to personal information, such as Social Security numbers. A '90s Kind of Crime: It's hard to say how widespread identity theft is because there is no standard definition of the crime. But sometime around 1994, the number of complaints to government, business and consumer groups began to explode. Last year, identity theft cost consumers and financial institutions some $745 million, according to the U.S. Secret Service, which has jurisdiction over many financial crimes. In 1992, about 35,000 people called the credit reporting agency Trans Union with questions or complaints about identity theft, the company reports. Last year, calls numbered more than 523,000. It is the victims themselves who've dragged the crime into the spotlight, demanding that lawmakers take action. Among them: an Arizona factory worker who helped initiate the new federal felony bill. He's a man who first learned about identity theft in 1994, when a collection agency called to ask why he hadn't paid his printing bill. He's Robert Hartle. Hartle, 46, was living with his wife, JoAnn, in Spirit Lake, Iowa, and working as an inspector at a foundry when he was thrust into identity-theft hell. The Hartles had been living frugally, with few bills, and made almost all their purchases in cash. But when Hartle got the strange call about the Las Vegas printing bill, he ordered a copy of his credit report. It told a different story, Hartle says. To the credit reporting agency and anyone who used its information, Hartle was a free-spending deadbeat. Luckier than most, Hartle had a lead on the culprit. He knew of a man going by the name of Carl Lee Lunden who had befriended his mother in Phoenix. In fact, "Lunden"--later found to be Gilbert--had persuaded the elderly woman, some 30 years his senior, to marry him, giving him access to Hartle family information. He had also made what Hartle had assumed was a joke about working under Hartle's name. Hartle traveled to Phoenix to present his case to police. That's where he learned something he found hard to believe. Even if he was right about "Lunden," the police didn't consider Hartle to be the victim of a crime. The law enforcement logic was this: Hartle wasn't legally obligated to pay any of the bills the impostor had run up. Therefore, Hartle wasn't out any money. If anyone was a victim, it was the bank that issued the credit card. Never mind that Gilbert had ruined Hartle's credit. Or that the creditors wouldn't erase the debts without a showing of fraud. Hartle found the police wouldn't even allow him to file a police report. "I offered to give [the detective] the evidence, and he refused to take it," Hartle recalls. "I told him that I was not a lawyer or a police officer, but I knew that crimes had been committed." By mid-1994, Hartle was in desperate shape. Gilbert had left Hartle's mother and fled Arizona, but hadn't stopped using his name. Hartle was spending $400 a month on phone calls, trying to get creditors off his back and law enforcement onto Gilbert. "Our credit was ruined. We couldn't move ahead with our lives. Everything was on hold," he says. "We couldn't continue to live like this." In Hartle's case, the con man he was chasing was crafty. Gilbert had moved to Phoenix from Florida, where he had a criminal record. But identity thieves don't need to be so devious. All that wouldbe thieves require is a credit card application and some basic personal information about their target. The key piece of information--the victim's Social Security number--is surprisingly easy to get. It's widely available on credit reports. And it's often the account number on documents that thieves can steal from their victims' mail or dig out from their garbage. Lawyers Can Be Victims, Too: Mari Frank, a lawyer in Laguna Niguel, Calif., found out firsthand how easily a scam artist can steal someone's name. In August 1996, Frank got a call from a bank in Delaware, asking why she hadn't paid an $11,000 balance on a Toys "R" Us credit card. When Frank asked where the bank had been sending the billing statements, she got an address in Ventura, Calif., about 80 miles north of her. It was Frank's first clue that an identity thief had run up bills of about $50,000 in her name. "She had gotten a red convertible Mustang that she was driving around --with my credit," says Frank, now an advocate for tougher identity theft laws. "She got a driver's license with my name." The thief in Frank's case was anything but sophisticated. She got Frank's credit report by saying she was a private investigator. To get the Toys "R" Us card, Frank says, the woman had simply crossed out her own name on the application and written in "Mari Frank." Another victim-turned-advocate is Jessica Grant, who also was shocked to find out how unprotected she was. Grant, a pension manager in Sun Prairie, Wis., had always used credit sparingly. But when she and her husband tried to refinance their home in December 1997, they found that an impostor had run up about $60,000 worth of debt in Grant's name. The thief, who lived in Texas, had opened 19 separate accounts. In some cases, the impostor got credit in Grant's name despite submitting applications with a residence and employer that didn't match Grant's. "That's the part of it that just infuriates me," Grant says. "There was just so much information that could have been--and should have been--questioned. But it never was." Dilemma of Enforcement: Like Hartle, both Frank and Grant found that local police did not consider them to be victims of crime. Both took their cases to federal law enforcement--the fbi and U.S. Secret Service--where they found good news and bad. Federal law does prohibit the fraudulent misuse of identification, bank cards and Social Security numbers. 18 U.S.C. 1028, 10 U.S.C. 1028, 42 U.S.C. 408. But, Frank and Grant both say, federal investigators told them they deal only with multistate fraud rings and cases worth upward of $200,000. Their cases didn't qualify. For the feds, it's a predicament, says James Bauer, a deputy assistant director in the Secret Service and a proponent of tougher identity theft laws. For example, Bauer's office is shutting down a fraud ring in which the thieves used stolen identities to buy cars, then cleverly leveraged their bounty. The thieves would take the car out of state, sell it, use the money to make a down payment on a house, then take out second mortgages on the house. "Multiply that times the 36 cars that we know about so far, and it amounts to literally millions of dollars," Bauer says. But while the feds have struggled to crack those sorts of operations, relatively small fish like Scott Gilbert have wriggled free. In theory, the banks that issue the credit cards--the real victims, in the eyes of local police--could push harder for prosecution. But according to U.S. Sen. Jon Kyle, R-Ariz., sponsor of the new federal identity theft bill, banks often have insurance to cover their losses. And they know their chances of getting any restitution may be slim. Even if police do investigate, identity theft cases can be expensive to prosecute, says Donald Grant, a Ventura County, Calif., deputy district attorney whose office handled Frank's case. Prosecutors have a strong incentive to work a plea deal because trying the case means paying to bring in bank employees as witnesses, as well as bank records from across the country, he says. They also know judges aren't likely to give jail time to nonviolent criminals, especially if the dollar amount is relatively small or the defendant is a first-time offender. "To prosecute these cases is a godawful pain in the neck," Grant says. If there's a trial, "We generate a lot of expense to taxpayers, and it's not a prison case. It's sort of a no-win situation for the victims," he concedes. And it's identity theft victims who are left trying to explain all this to creditors and collection agencies, who often suspect the victim of being the impostor. "I was getting outright, flat-out abusive treatment," says victim Grant. "I was in a position where I had to prove who I was, when they never bothered to ask [the thief] to prove who she was." By the time Hartle and his wife had moved to Phoenix to plead their case with law enforcement officials, Gilbert had fled. In November 1994, state police in New Hampshire picked him up on charges of trying to get a fake driver's license, Hartle says. Out on bail, Gilbert called Hartle and tried to get him to stop his pursuit. When Hartle refused, Gilbert taunted him. "He told me ... he wasn't going to quit using my identity until he felt like stopping," Hartle recalls. When Hartle threatened to track down Gilbert himself, "He laughed at me, said, 'Go ahead and try it because nobody's going to convict me.' " At the time, Hartle recalls, "It was beginning to look like he was right." But in early 1995, Hartle finally got a break. He had contacted U.S. Sen. Thomas Harkin, D-Iowa, and asked him to press federal prosecutors to help. In February 1995, they indicted Gilbert for buying guns under a false name and misusing a credit card. Gilbert pleaded guilty and was sentenced to 17 months in prison. But Hartle decided that wasn't enough. He turned to a state representative in Arizona, who pushed state prosecutors to reconsider Hartle's complaints. In October 1995, Gilbert pleaded guilty to perjury in state court and was sentenced to four years in prison. In total, Gilbert served a little more than three years. Not bad, Hartle says, "when you consider that when I started this, no one was interested." Hard to Pin Down: Despite what their victims go through, it's unusual for an identity thief to get a sentence as severe as Gilbert's. Take Mari Frank's case. She was fortunate to find a police supervisor in Ventura, himself a victim of identity theft, who ordered an investigation. Police arrested her identity thief in October 1996, Frank says. But the woman missed her sentencing hearing that December and remained free until police picked her up on other charges in January 1997. "She finally did a two-month work furlough program ... staying at a halfway house," Frank says. The thief drove to the program in the red Mustang she had bought with Frank's credit. "Violent crime does take precedence," Frank says. "I understand that. But the criminals know this is not really taken seriously. There [have] to be some identity thieves going to jail and doing some real time." Jessica Grant says she grew frustrated trying to get the Texas state police to take action. She eventually got help from the Houston police and an investigator with the Social Security Administration. As of July, the investigator had confronted a suspect and was preparing to file charges, Grant says. But identity theft itself isn't a crime in Texas. "The law that they're charging her with is the misuse of a Social Security number," Grant says. "She will probably not get jail time." All three victims paid a stiff price to clean up their credit records. Hartle estimates that he spent about $15,000 out of his own pocket during the ordeal. Grant says she has logged 158 hours, so far, trying to straighten out creditors. Frank, the lawyer, says she cleaned her credit record in eight months. But it took 90 letters, 500 hours and more than $10,000 in out-of-pocket expenses, she says. Beyond Bad Credit: For some victims, it gets even worse. Impostors have been known to commit crimes, then give their fake identity to police when they're arrested. "We're hearing more and more cases these days where the identity theft victim is saddled with a criminal record," says Beth Givens, project director at the Privacy Rights Clearinghouse, a San Diego-based group that aids identity theft victims. "That's what I call the worst-case scenario." Some victims may never learn of all the damage that was done, notes Jodie Bernstein, director of the Bureau of Consumer Protection of the Federal Trade Commission. "If your credit history is destroyed, you may not even know if it went to some potential employer and you didn't get a job," she says. "The victims we talk to eventually get it sorted out, but at great cost." Bauer of the Secret Service relates another story: "I know a [thief] out West who actually died using the victim's name," he says. The victim "had to get a death certificate undone." Hartle, Frank and Grant have pushed for reforms that are starting to change how the nation deals with identity theft. In Arizona, Hartle contacted his state legislator about making identity theft a serious crime that local police couldn't ignore. In July 1996, the state made it a felony--the first law of its kind in the nation. In California, Frank joined victims testifying last year on behalf of a bill that made identity theft a misdemeanor. As of July, she had testified eight more times in support of other identity theft measures, including one bill that would make it a felony in some circumstances. Frank, who works primarily as a mediator, also has written a book, From Victim to Victor: A Step-By-Step Guide for Ending the Nightmare of Identity Theft. And she has assembled a self-help kit and created a Web site, http://www.identitytheft.org , to assist victims. Frank says that because identity theft is so new, some lawyers misadvise clients. She has heard of lawyers counseling victims to change their Social Security number or declare bankruptcy, two strategies she says are counterproductive because they ultimately burden the victim with even more legal difficulties. Grant, lobbying in Wisconsin, got the quickest legislative action. In February, two months after she discovered she was a victim, Grant was the subject of a front-page article in the Wisconsin State Journal. State Rep. Marlin Schneider, an outspoken privacy hawk, introduced a bill in her name making identity theft a felony there. Grant visited the Wisconsin Capitol and talked to legislators, including one trip in March with a local TV-news camera crew in tow. The bill passed in April. When Gov. Tommy Thompson signed it into law, Grant got to keep the pen. And Hartle--four years after his first, confusing phone call about a $185.30 printing bill--hopes that this fall he will become one of the few victim-advocates to push through the same law at both the state and federal levels. With prodding from Hartle, Kyle, a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, introduced the Identity Theft and Assumption Deterrence Act last year. The act makes identity theft that crosses state lines a federal felony, punishable by up to 15 years in prison. It also allows restitution to victims. The larger war over who has control over personal information is one that will be fought well into the next century. Many issues are just now being identified. The financial and credit industries certainly have their share of political muscle. But don't count out those mistreated by the system--the Hartles, Franks and Grants. "They have lived through the Orwellian nightmare," consumer advocate Mierswinsky says. "The victims of identity theft are a force to be reckoned with." VICTIMS WORK TO KEEP PERSONAL DATA PRIVATE Although they've been the driving force behind identity theft laws in several states, the victims of this scam say what they've accomplished isn't nearly enough. Along with consumer groups, they're pushing for tougher restrictions on how businesses use personal information. High on their wish list: a bill introduced by U.S. Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., that would force businesses to get a person's consent before selling Social Security numbers and other personal data commonly found on credit reports. Consumer advocates blame banks and credit card companies for issuing preapproved credit applications and then not screening carefully enough for impostor applicants. They say merchants add to the problem by hawking "instant credit" cards at the checkout counter. "The lack of verification at that level is astounding," says Ed Mierswinsky, a consumer advocate at U.S. Public Interest Research Group in Washington, D.C. The credit reporting industry says it, too, is concerned about identity theft. Staffing has been increased on fraud hotlines, and sophisticated software is being put to use to detect spending patterns that may indicate fraud. Visa suffered $470 million in fraud losses in the United States last year, but only 4 percent was due to identity theft, says Dennis Brosan, Visa's vice president of fraud control in McLean, Va. That's down 12 percent from just a few years ago. But the credit reporting industry opposes restrictions on selling personal information. Officials say the information actually helps prevent identity theft because it makes it easier for banks and merchants to confirm whether people applying for credit are who they say they are. The data also accounts for tens of millions of dollars in annual sales for credit reporting agencies, the U.S. General Accounting Office reported in March. For lenders, there's a tension between serving customers who want tight security and those who bristle at being asked for three pieces of identification for every transaction. "All we can do is hope that the companies that have this ability to minimize the threat are doing everything they can," says Robert McKew, general counsel for American Financial Services Association, a trade group in Washington, D.C., whose members include many lenders. "I believe that they are." U.S. Sen. Jon Kyle, R-Ariz., sponsor of a new federal identity theft bill, says he is reluctant to blame lenders. "They're dealing with a lot of deadbeats, frankly, and everybody has a story," Kyle says. "It's very, very hard in today's world. In order to get credit you've got to give information. And once that information is in the commercial stream, it's very difficult to protect it." Michael Higgins, a lawyer, is a reporter for the aba Journal. His e-mail address is higginsm at staff.abanet.org. Copyright American Bar Association. American Bar Association 750 N. Lake Shore Dr., Chicago, IL 60611 312/988-5000 info at abanet.org --------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------ ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research and educational purposes only. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases (up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message "Please enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to: ISPIClips at ama-gi.com . The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia (Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no government funding and takes a global perspective. ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research into electronic, personal and financial privacy with a view toward helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy. But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and generous financial support. If you value in the ISPI Clips service or if you are concerned about the erosion of your privacy in general, won't you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI Clips Supporter" or by taking out an institute Membership? We gratefully accept all contributions: Less than $60 ISPI Clips Supporter $60 - $99 Primary ISPI Membership (1 year) $100 - $300 Senior ISPI Membership (2 years) More than $300 Executive Council Membership (life) Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership. For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com . We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to any third party. ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sat Oct 3 04:02:05 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 19:02:05 +0800 Subject: [SoftSpeech] Interplay between Crypto Export Regs and Copyright (fwd) Message-ID: <199810040006.TAA29546@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 23:53:01 +0100 > From: Adam Back > Subject: Re: [SoftSpeech] Interplay between Crypto Export Regs and Copyright > Recall PRZ himself did not export anything, and yet the Feds were > building the case on the basis that he allowed it to be exported, or > did not try hard enough to prevent it being exported. Rumor has it > that a low profile cypherpunk type, Kelly Goen, had something to do > with it, and he was the lesser publicized 2nd defendent in the USG > investigation of PRZ and associate. If this approach is so air-tight why is PRZ still walking around a free man? ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From vznuri at netcom.com Sat Oct 3 04:13:57 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 19:13:57 +0800 Subject: IP: CNS - Justice Department Seeks Expanded Power Message-ID: <199810032339.QAA27752@netcom13.netcom.com> From: "A.C." Subject: IP: CNS - Justice Department Seeks Expanded Power Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 00:13:37 -0700 To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com >Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 13:18:40 -0500 >From: Jim Groom >To: Current Events >Subject: CNS - Justice Department Seeks Expanded Power > >http://www.conservativenews.org/indepth/welcome.html > >Justice Department Seeks Expanded Power > >01 October, 1998 > >By Ben Anderson >CNS Staff Writer > >(CNS) The United States Justice Department is seeking to expand its >authority and "obtain massive new enforcement powers" just days before a >busy Congress scurries to finish business, according to Representative >Bob Barr (R-GA). > >If the Justice Department has its wishes, according to Barr, it could >establish a "permanent FBI Police Force." The Justice Department is >allegedly trying to get their "wish list" attached to appropriations >bills to avoid public hearings or debate. > >Barr obtained a "wish list" by the Department which includes expanding >definitions of terrorism to include domestic crimes unrelated to >terrorism. The Department is also seeking to seize commercial >transportation assets for federal use and the ability to commandeer >personnel from other federal agencies without reimbursement. > >"These requests belong in some bizarre conspiracy novel," Barr said, >"not in serious legislative documents being circulated at the top levels >of federal law enforcement." > >In addition to forcing telephone and Internet companies to divulge >information on their customers, Justice Department officials are also >seeking to expand wiretap authority to allow "roving" wiretaps, and >wiretaps without any court authority, according to Barr. > >"These proposals represent a sneak attack on the most cherished >principles of our democracy. If they become a part of our law, freedom >and privacy in America will be permanently and severely diminished," >Barr said. > >Barr released information yesterday to expose the Justice Department's >efforts. Barr spokesman Brad Alexander told CNS the department typically >waits until the congressional atmosphere is clouded with lots of >legislation to lobby sympathetic Congressmen. > >Alexander told CNS the wiretapping issue is something the Justice >Department tries to expand at the end of every congressional session. > >Three phone calls made to the Justice Department by CNS were not >returned by press time. > >### >---------------------------------------------------------------------- September 29, 1998 http://www.house.gov/barr/p_doj.html BARR EXPOSES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE POWER GRAB WASHINGTON, DC -- U.S. Representative Bob Barr (GA-7) released today information exposing an effort by the Department of Justice to obtain massive new enforcement powers in the closing days of the 105th Congress. Barr obtained the information from a confidential source within federal law enforcement. Among other things, the Department's "wish list" for new authority includes (among others): + A vastly expanded definition of terrorism to include domestic crimes having no relationship to terrorism. + The power to seize commercial transportation assets for federal use. + The ability to commander personnel from other federal agencies without reimbursement. + Expanded wiretap authority to allow "roving" wiretaps, and wiretaps without any court authority. + Enlarged asset forfeiture provisions to allow the FBI to seize personal property in both criminal and civil matters. + The establishment of a permanent "FBI Police Force." + Loosening of Posse Comitatus restrictions to allow more military involvement in domestic law enforcement. + Authority to force telephone and Internet companies to divulge information on their customers. "These requests belong in some bizarre conspiracy novel, not in serious legislative documents being circulated at the top levels of federal law enforcement. These proposals represent a sneak attack on the most cherished principles of our democracy. If they become a part of our law, freedom and privacy in America will be permanently and severely diminished," said Barr. Barr also noted the Department and the FBI are "shopping" this wish list in an effort to get the items placed in a spending measure without hearings or debate. ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From user6 at new-century-commerce.com Sat Oct 3 19:39:46 1998 From: user6 at new-century-commerce.com (user6 at new-century-commerce.com) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 19:39:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Your inquiry Message-ID: <199810040239.TAA26315@toad.com> Hi, If you want to promote your product or service legitimately to 100,000's of people per week. Bring your product or service to an audiance that is generally more affluent and technologically aware than any other. Our method will bring your product to the personal attention of 100,000's of potential customers very effectively and inexpensively. Please note we only accept responsible ethical advertisers. For more information email user6 at new-century-commerce.com. We also design State Of The Art Websites, our sites are designed in dual html and flash multimedia animation. Even if you have an existing Website which needs spicing up or you need to gather customer information we can provide the skills and CGI programming to implement your requirements. If you are interested please contact us and we will be happy to show you our online portfolio of Websites. Our Websites are truely unbelievable!!!! From nobody at replay.com Sat Oct 3 04:50:30 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 19:50:30 +0800 Subject: Microsoft Message-ID: <199810040052.CAA01147@replay.com> I'd always wondered how Bill Gates could shit with that pole so far up his ass. Then I realized: The pole is too long to be completely embedded in his ass and he uses the other half of it to rape computer users everywhere on a regular basis. And since the pole is crammed in his ass he can't shit, so he just retains his shit, making him incredibly anal retentive. I'm sure he enjoys this. From KCzzzzz at aol.com Sat Oct 3 08:43:21 1998 From: KCzzzzz at aol.com (KCzzzzz at aol.com) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 23:43:21 +0800 Subject: Please include me Message-ID: <80e9319b.3616faed@aol.com> Include me on your mailing list From nobody at earth.wazoo.com Sat Oct 3 09:11:26 1998 From: nobody at earth.wazoo.com (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 00:11:26 +0800 Subject: Please include me In-Reply-To: <80e9319b.3616faed@aol.com> Message-ID: <199810040506.FAA29119@earth.wazoo.com> > Include me on your mailing list Me too!!!! -- an anonymous AOL31 user From jf_avon at citenet.net Sat Oct 3 09:16:25 1998 From: jf_avon at citenet.net (Jean-Francois Avon) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 00:16:25 +0800 Subject: Q to cypherpunks. WAS:Re: Please stop forwarding Canadian Firearms Digest to Cypherpunks List! Message-ID: <199810040511.BAA20165@cti06.citenet.net> Q for you CPunks: did PGP v.5.5.3i was truly peer-reviewed for flaws or backdoors? If not, which is that last version that was? On Sat, 03 Oct 1998 14:20:42 -0700, Bill Stewart wrote: >Hi! Of course most of us believe that firearms registration is wrong >and that the right to own weapons is the right to be free, >and I suppose it is a break from Clinton&Monica rants, >but still, please stop forwarding the Canadian firearms stuff to >the cypherpunks list. Is is not about the right to be free, it is about govt organizing seriously to deny that right. :-S OK, I'll stop. No problemo Bill. OTOH, I will still post articles with relevance to crypto from the list or elsewhere. Some of thoses articles will possibly have nothing to do with crypto except that they will be modifications or subtleties of ITAR. Just so you know: I spend a lot of keystrokes teaching PGP to various peoples nowadays... Ciao all C'Punks. jfa Jean-Francois Avon, Pierrefonds (Montreal), Canada Unregistered Firearms in the hands of honest citizens: Liberty's Teeth Strong Cryptographic tools in the hands of honest citizens: Liberty's Voice He who beats his sword into a ploughshare will get coerced to plow for those who don't... PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C From blancw at cnw.com Sat Oct 3 10:06:01 1998 From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 01:06:01 +0800 Subject: importance of motivation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201bdef5e$06345860$3a8195cf@blanc> >From Robert Hettinga: : However, I *do* know that when I take ritalin, I can do boring stuff much : easier. I'm a very grouchy bastard, but the boring stuff gets done. And, a : very large percentage of people with the DSM-V "diagnosis" of ADHD (H, for : "hyperactive", is Tim's lost initial there, probably a Freudian slip ;-)), : also focus better with ritalin or dexedrine in their bloodstreams, at least : in clinical trials. I also know that when you run PET scans : of people who have ADD (I'm not as hyperactive as I was as a kid...) their : brains look markedly different from those of "normal" people when they try to : concentrate on something too long. .................................................................................... I notice that when I'm intoxicated with various fermented substances, I'm much less inhibited about everything and more amenable to doing things I would otherwise examine with critical judgement. Many people come to depend on these props for their motivation and find they can't function without them. That's the problem, and it's recognizeable in regards to alcohol and recreational drugs, but apparently not so identifiable with the sanctioned, prescribed ones. They temporarily boost the system and the person can function, minus a few little negative, annoying, possibly dangerous, complications. But they don't strengthen the person's system, they don't have noticeably beneficial effects on the person's physical system (they way food does, for instance). Sometimes I've pondered just what the difference is between any kind of drug or any kind of food or other 'natural' chemical that we take into our bodies (such as water or oxygen), which we normally use to function. These things circulate through us and we incorporate some of them and exude/excrete/eliminate the others. If we don't get oxygen quickly, or water very soon, or food eventually, our strength wanes and we die (and it's also possible to "OD" on water). With stuff like cocaine or heart medicine, a person suffers extremely and/or dies just the same An important difference I can identify is the effects upon our strength and ability from the use of any chemical we consume. Anything which leaves us weak: Bad. Strength, self-reliance, efficacy: Good. But the most important difference is the quality of one's conscious state: the more, the better - greater clarity over one's circumstance, greater control possible over one own functions and things around one, a better sense of being "oneself", under one's own direction (authority). The less of this, the more is lost (as in 'loser'). You have to "be" there, to get it. .. Blanc From blancw at cnw.com Sat Oct 3 10:06:06 1998 From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 01:06:06 +0800 Subject: importance of motivation In-Reply-To: <199810031436.KAA00893@camel7.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <000301bdef5e$0bddee20$3a8195cf@blanc> >From John Young: : 'Twould be nice if rationality waned for a generation or : many, give us time to recover from being overdosed with : it since the ahem Renaissance, and suffering the damage of : Renaissance Persons with pseudo-mastery of more than : they know how to handle except to blow the shit out of a : world they cannot truly comprehend except as a clueless : wad defying self-annointe High IQers. .......................................................................... You are mistaken, John. I won't say it depends upon what your definition of "is", is, but ... rationality is not the opposite of sanity. I think you're really thinking about coerced intelligence, as practiced in the public schools and various places of presumptions to authority. That is not the intended meaning of the word. Being rational has nothing to do with imposing one's methods on others. Rationality, which would support one's own, also prevents the motivation towards disturbing another's peace. Rather should you blame the lack of perspective and the problems of a disturbed psychology. .. Blanc From nobody at earth.wazoo.com Sat Oct 3 10:22:15 1998 From: nobody at earth.wazoo.com (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 01:22:15 +0800 Subject: Please include me Message-ID: <199810040616.GAA30836@earth.wazoo.com> piss off! ME FIRST! >From cypherpunks-errors at toad.com Sat Oct 3 22:43:06 1998 >Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 05:06:01 GMT >Message-Id: <199810040506.FAA29119 at earth.wazoo.com> >From: Anonymous >Comments: This message did not originate from the Sender >address above. >It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer software. >Please report problems or inappropriate use to the >remailer administrator at . >Subject: Re: Please include me >References: <80e9319b.3616faed at aol.com> >To: cypherpunks at toad.com >Sender: owner-cypherpunks at toad.com >Precedence: bulk > > Include me on your mailing list >Me too!!!! >-- an anonymous AOL31 user From blancw at cnw.com Sat Oct 3 13:39:13 1998 From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 04:39:13 +0800 Subject: Dial 1-800-SPY TECH Message-ID: <000401bdef7b$c04057a0$3a8195cf@blanc> I was surfing the web, looked at http://www.spaceinvestor.com/, when I noticed an article with the above title, referring to this company: Applied Signal Technology (APSG) Spy vs Spy gadgetry for the 21st Century. This company is the quality producer of surveillance equipment and is on track for consistent revenue gains of 15 - 20%... (also see Quarterly Earnings Report) Copied below are a couple of paragraphs about the company: In actuality the new Spy is a technological marvel of electronic hardware, computers, and software, that manifests into the latest high tech signal reconnaissance equipment. And the best of these new Techno-Bonds that process, evaluate, and store wireless telecommunications signals are produced by a small Silicon Valley company called Applied Signal Technology. Applied Signal Technology, stock ticker symbol: APSG, is a leader in the growing niche market of signal reconnaissance. Applied Signal Technology designs equipment to collect and process foreign telecommunication signals. The company's products include equipment that scans cellular-telephone, microwave, ship-to-shore, and military-radio-frequency transmissions; computer-based processing equipment then evaluates collected signals and selects those likely to contain relevant information. Over 95% of the company's revenue is derived from purchases by United States government agencies under contracts. [....] Investors should consider adding APSG to their long term portfolio. It has positive characteristics of a stock ready to surge higher. Hopefully an APSG stock price increase will become the sequel to "The Spy who loved me". .. Blanc From bill301 at success600.com Sun Oct 4 04:39:25 1998 From: bill301 at success600.com (bill301 at success600.com) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 04:39:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Fire the Boss and Break the Alarm Clock! Message-ID: <009d630512303a8VERY@bill301.com> Sent from: Success by Design 4974 N Cedar #116, Fresno, Ca, 93705 209 444-0550, bill301 at success600.com This text is placed here as stipulated in bill S. 1618 Title 3. http://www.senate.gov/~murkowski/commercialemail/EMailAmendText.html This is a FREE offer if you wish to be removed from future mailings, put remove in subject and please e-mail to... (remove at success600.com) this software will automatically block you from their future mailings. Fire the Boss and break the Alarm Clock! I did! after eleven years, I left a $140,000 a year income for this opportunity. I can truly say it was one of the best decisions of my life!!! Never commute again! make $2000-$5000 per week from home! You can start out in your spare time, work part time or work up to full time if you want to! It's your business! Call 1-888-658-5840. no selling! not mlm! stay home with the family! Proven track record of success! For more info Email to your at success600.com From rain_dog_ at hotmail.com Sat Oct 3 14:38:12 1998 From: rain_dog_ at hotmail.com (Rain Dog) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 05:38:12 +0800 Subject: Ordered to be celibate? Message-ID: <19981004103730.4452.qmail@hotmail.com> Judge Orders Teen To Be Celibate CAMBRIDGE, Ill. (AP) -- A teen-ager who pleaded guilty to stealing handguns must remain celibate for 2 1/2 years unless he gets married, a judge said. Brandon Stevens, 17, was sentenced Wednesday to 30 months probation, 180 days in jail and a $2,000 fine. Henry County Judge Clarke Barnes said Stevens won't have to serve jail time if he completes treatment at a halfway house and meets conditions that include the celibacy rule. ``Certainly he's got no business having sexual relations with people to whom he's not married,'' Barnes said. Prosecutor Ted Hamer said the requirement was based on the judge's learning in court that Stevens was sexually active, not because of any sexually related charges. The American Civil Liberties Union said Stevens' sex life is none of the judge's business. And it's not clear how to enforce Barnes' order. ``It's sort of a self-policing type of order,'' Hamer said. ``Nobody's going to be spying on him or looking in windows. I think the judge just hopes he'll abide by the order.'' ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sat Oct 3 17:23:48 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 08:23:48 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <199810041326.IAA30916@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: "Brown, R Ken" > Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) > Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 05:28:08 -0500 > I don't believe there are that many natural monopolies Where there *are* > natural monopolies it is because the entry cost is higher than any likely > profit. There are some additional issues involved other than start-up cost. Such things as market saturation and information hording. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sat Oct 3 17:27:48 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 08:27:48 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <199810041331.IAA30976@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: Matthew James Gering > Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) > Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 02:43:25 -0700 > One thing that has changed fundamentally in the Information Age is the > ability for the consumer to get informed -- the ease if information > publishing and retrieval and the inability to control it. Actualy you are ascribing an effect as the cause. The information is there because the holders believe it's in their best interest to dissiminate it. As companies (the US Army' current behaviour is a good example) become to respect the distribution capability of the internet you'll see a reduction of information available. > Reputation has > more value then ever. Malarky. Reputation is irrelevant, just examine the prisoners delima. Those who put reputation over action are setting themselves up for a classic abuse of trust. > Government cannot protect people from their own decisions, and should > not have the right to take those decisions away. > I wouldn't eat at McDonalds even with all the regulation. You've got to be married or have lots of free time...;) > More often than not regulation is a false sense of security, and often > protects companies from legitimate liability (although god knows our > liability/tort system is completely out of whack). More often that not regulation is the result of abuse of the market by a manufacturer and is imposed ex post facto. It's intent is to eliminate future abuses. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sat Oct 3 17:31:10 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 08:31:10 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <199810041334.IAA31037@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 22:28:49 -0700 > From: "James A. Donald" > Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) > Bullshit. No monopoly has ever happened except by regulation That is truly Bullshit. Microsoft got to where it is because of a lack of regulation, the abuses of the aircraft industry in the 1940-50's that led to regulation at the end of the 50's and 60's. The steel industry in the north east in the early 1900's. The food packing and garment industries of the north east and pacific coast in the 20's through the 50's. The railroad industry in the mid-1800's. Every one of these created a monopolistic market because of a *lack* of regulation. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sat Oct 3 17:57:35 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 08:57:35 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <199810041400.JAA31111@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: Matthew James Gering > Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) > Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 02:26:21 -0700 > > In what way are the resulting markets different from > > either the producers or consumers view? > > Views on intellectual property and the obvious marketplace changes due > to an IP or lack of IP framework would be the major difference IMHO. I Explain further, from your description of the differences there are no fundamental mentionings or views of intellectual property. As a matter of fact the specific role of the individual is never even mentioned in either definition. It's almost like there is something poping out of thin air... > > Explain further what you mean by abolition of force is a > > prerequisite please. > > Basically no person (or entity) can use force (or its derivatives) > against another person (or entity). Your long history of criminal law, > except stripped of all victimless crimes. So people don't have a right to self-defence? I agree consensual crimes are not crimes. > > And what specificaly do you mean by proper role of government? > > "What, then, is law? It is the collective organization of the individual > right to lawful defense. Is it? Or is it simply another sort of coercion to cooperate with the collective? Is it not actualy the embodyment of ideals, an attempt at utopia if you will? > Each of us has a natural right--from God--to defend his person, his > liberty, and his property. These are the three basic requirements of > life, and the preservation of any one of them is completely dependent > upon the preservation of the other two. For what are our faculties but > the extension of our individuality? And what is property but an > extension of our faculties? I'm interesting to see how you reconcile the belief nobody has a right to use force yet has a right to defend their life. By facluty I assume you mean our emotional and psychological makeup coupled with our sensory record of them. I'd say that such issues are not a facet of individualism but rather a characteristic of life itself. As to property, it is a consequence of our biology, if that is a consequence of our faculties, and not visa versa, I'd doubt. > If every person has the right to defend -- even by force -- his person, > his liberty, and his property, then it follows that a group of men have > the right to organize and support a common force to protect these rights No it doesn't. You must first prove that a group of individuals have some right that as individuals they don't have. For one thing, even in your definition, rights are a fundamental aspect of birth as an individual. Something I've yet to see. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sat Oct 3 18:01:48 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 09:01:48 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <199810041405.JAA31171@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 22:33:24 -0700 > From: "James A. Donald" > Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) > In america the various mafias get plently of competition, > mostly by means short of actual warfare. Coke is a free > market except for police intervention, and the local church > is most certainly not a monopoly. Coke is a free-market? That's a laugh. I suggest you study the history of the Crips and related gangs, or the international Coke distributors. At no time was there more than a dozen or so groups and they worked cooperatively in many cases. As to the 'various mafias', in case you hadn't heard, they've been organized and integrated for about 30-40 years depending on who you ask. They cooperatively divide up territories and product lines between them to guarantee a minimum of violence and maximize profit for each member. However, I would lay dollars to donuts that if you were to go start your own family there would be very little consideration as to the consequences. Make no bones about it, if we're talking national or international crime it is most definitely organized and cooperatively arranged between a small set of players. That's a monopoly. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sat Oct 3 18:05:33 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 09:05:33 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <199810041408.JAA31231@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 22:33:24 -0700 > From: "James A. Donald" > Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) > market except for police intervention, and the local church > is most certainly not a monopoly. Your local church is a member of a larger international collective that does in fact use coercion in one form or another. Consider the consequences of abortion for a Catholic (true believer). Tell that to the various hospices and clinics that have been blown to kingdom come... Coercion is a much broader stroke than a simple assault. It can include real and imagined consequences to alter or limit the behaviour of others. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sat Oct 3 18:15:42 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 09:15:42 +0800 Subject: IP: Clear and present danger: FIGHT AGAINST NATIONAL ID CARD (fwd) Message-ID: <199810041418.JAA31300@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 21:42:38 +0200 > From: "Albert P. Franco, II" > Subject: IP: Clear and present danger: FIGHT AGAINST NATIONAL ID CARD > (fwd) > I think the original message speaks of executive, legislative, and judicial > branches. As defined by the constitution this is, in fact, the federal > government. > As a matter of practice, most if not all, of the states are > also divided this way. Article X which you quoted supports the tacit > understanding that We, the people, are not actually THE government. Really? Please expound... We, the People of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. ARTICLE IX. The enumeration of the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. ARTICLE X. The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- It in fact supports NO such interpretation unless you take it out of context and alone. Much like trying to determine the ecology of a valley by examinging a single fish... In fact what it does say is that the Constitution was implimented by the people and not by a government *granting* rights and privileges. It futher states that it does not limit the rights or privileges of the people (note it doesn't mention federal or state govts.) futher backing up that we the people are implimenting this and not the other way around. Finaly it specificaly states that the order of resolution for any issue is to see if it's specificaly given to the federal govt., if not (and it's not prohibited), then to the states (to resolve via their own representative systems), and finaly if not covered by those two documents (the US Constitution and the individual state constitution) then it is retained by the people. So we find that in fact we the people *are* the initial and final authority. The bottem line is that *the government of the United States* consists of three parties, the federal system, the state, and the people. That is the government of this country and not some figmented heirarchy that has zero basis for support. The reason the federal is broken into 3 seperate sections is so that there is a measure of conflict and confrontation involved. *THE* basis for a working democracy is the limited use of cooperation. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From stuffed at stuffed.net Sun Oct 4 09:21:26 1998 From: stuffed at stuffed.net (STUFFED NEWS DAILY) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 09:21:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: ----> http://stuffed.net/98/10/4/ <---- Message-ID: <19981004071001.20715.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com> Welcome to today's issue of Stuffed. To read it you should click on the URL above. If it is not made clickable by your email program you will need to use your mouse to highlight the URL, copy it and then paste it into your browser (then press Return). This email is never sent unsolicited. Stuffed is the supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full instructions on unsubscribing are in every issue of Eureka! ----> http://stuffed.net/98/10/4/ <---- From stugreen at realtime.net Sat Oct 3 20:17:43 1998 From: stugreen at realtime.net (Stu Green) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 11:17:43 +0800 Subject: Court considers cooking cookies' book - THE REGISTER Message-ID: <3617A0DE.7B0C74DC@realtime.net> From pjm at spe.com Sat Oct 3 21:13:11 1998 From: pjm at spe.com (pjm at spe.com) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 12:13:11 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) In-Reply-To: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A19284710@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com> Message-ID: <1704-Sun04Oct1998124154+0200-pjm@spe.com> Petro writes: [ . . . ] > Aren't there certain departments/divisions in the governement that > only accept electronic files if they are in "word" format? (i.e. the DoD, > but I don't have a site for that, so I could be mistaken). > > I know that I've never seen a Military Computer (desktop kind) that > wasn't a Wintel/Dos machjne (talking general purpose computer here, not a > targeting machine etc.) > > Sell a couple hundered thousand units to the Feds, and that is a > considerable dent in the "level playing field" of the free market. Check the archives! (I really enjoyed typing that.) A few months ago in a thread initiated by, I believe, Dr. Hun, I suggested that the best way for the government to break the alleged Microsoft monopoly would be to stop buying their products. Given that free alternatives are available, our tax dollars shouldn't be wasted on expensive software. The fact that the free software is technically superior is icing on the cake. Regards, pjm From interception at ii-mel.com Sat Oct 3 21:32:40 1998 From: interception at ii-mel.com (interception) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 12:32:40 +0800 Subject: http://jya.com/ECHELON-GO.htm Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19981004172611.006f0e5c@mail.ii-mel.com> From: interception Subject: http://jya.com/ECHELON-GO.htm french centers of electronic interceptions are in: 1 - Agde 2 - Rohrbach-les-Bitch 3 - Domme 4 - M�tzig, 5 - Alluets-Feucherolles 6 - Celar (Army) (fax, scramble,...): 950 people in Rennes 7 - Security Squad and electronic war (4 squads) in Metz 8 - Plateau d'Albion: 150 people 9 - Boat: Cargo le Bercy 10- Bouar (Centrafrican R�public) 11- Solenzara (Corse) 12- St-Barth�lemy (Guadeloupe) 13- R�union 14- Mayotte, Djibouti 15- Kourou Spatial Base (Guyane) 16- United Arab Emirates 17- New Caledonia In spite of Echelon http://www.ii-mel.com/interception/echelongb.htm french electronic interception are practiced in the USA Masson http://www.ii-mel.com/interception From jdobruck at kki.net.pl Sat Oct 3 22:42:09 1998 From: jdobruck at kki.net.pl (Jan Dobrucki) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 13:42:09 +0800 Subject: Please include me In-Reply-To: <80e9319b.3616faed@aol.com> Message-ID: <3617CF97.5FB84B43@kki.net.pl> Well, what a neat way to get on this list, just ask someone to do it for you... well it's WRONG. Go to ftp://ftp.csua.berkeley.edu/pub/cypherpunks/Home.html and get the information you need from there.... You're lucky, I was in a good mood today... you got help... but there are people out there who just hate your guts... So learn mr. aol user and stop asking this stupid question. There are FAQ's to help such people as yourself. Regards, Jan Dobrucki KCzzzzz at aol.com wrote: > Include me on your mailing list > > -- > Wyslano za posrednictwem bezplatnego serwera KKI > Krakowski Komercyjny Internet - http://www.kki.net.pl > > To jest miejsce na reklame Twojej firmy! -- Wyslano za posrednictwem bezplatnego serwera KKI Krakowski Komercyjny Internet - http://www.kki.net.pl To jest miejsce na reklame Twojej firmy! From jamesd at echeque.com Sat Oct 3 22:58:21 1998 From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 13:58:21 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) In-Reply-To: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A1928471D@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com> Message-ID: <4.0.2.19981004113522.00b24be0@shell11.ba.best.com> -- At 12:30 AM 10/1/98 -0700, Matthew James Gering wrote: > Regulation includes much more than licensing and > registration. Try hiring a couple employees, paying > freelance individuals, setup office space, get yourself a > company car and do your fed income taxes. Lightly regulated > my ass. If they enforced every word of every code strongly > and literally it would be nearly impossible to conduct > business. To the best of my observation, every single small business is operating illegally. The situation differs from Russia only in degree, not in kind --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG ijgrm6mPtp+ITpiypBMGLzXsIs6lHQrzIqUz4YVV 43IJ5kE5GhIslIQSgCTgRQZID2XvL+MfwFf/uPGD8 ----------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state. http://www.jim.com/jamesd/����� James A. Donald From jamesd at echeque.com Sat Oct 3 22:59:46 1998 From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 13:59:46 +0800 Subject: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... In-Reply-To: <199810011243.HAA18113@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <4.0.2.19981004113817.00ba5100@shell11.ba.best.com> At 07:43 AM 10/1/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > Personaly, 3 Mile Island in a un-regulated industry scares > the hell out of me...and I support nuclear power. Look at > the fiasco of Chernobyl in a control market. Observe that the level of harm is approximately proportional to the level of government regulation. You presuppose that government officials will be more virtuous than private individuals. This is obviously unlikely, since they have less reason to fear retribution than private individuals. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG KbuqgbXneCGpwCkzD74HaiFd/J5YwQM2KIGMZj5R 4MnABV61Fum7fXVJ9y0SGutgtOy0PncqHqIN0Mlc9 ----------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state. http://www.jim.com/jamesd/����� James A. Donald From tlmjc at msn.com Sun Oct 4 14:22:50 1998 From: tlmjc at msn.com (tlmjc at msn.com) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 14:22:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Increase your website traffic dramitcally! 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Your confidentiality is assured; we NEVER release any information about our clients. --Search Engine Success Group-- 410-783-8269 *** Remember - our job is to increase your website's rank. That's what we do. We can't guarantee, however, that this will increase the number of visitors you get. Some highly-ranked websites still don't get much traffic. Much depends on your particular industry and choice of keywords. ----------------------- If you're not interested in any potential future offers, just click reply. Thank you. From jamesd at echeque.com Sat Oct 3 23:40:55 1998 From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 14:40:55 +0800 Subject: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810021246.HAA24653@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199810041939.MAA13220@proxy3.ba.best.com> At 07:46 AM 10/2/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > The largest environment impact issue with a nuclear plant > is hot water discharge (which is much larger than the > exhaust from a coal plant) Since the operating temperature of the steam of a typical nuclear reactor is only a little lower than the operating temperature of the steam of a coal fired plant, the hot water discharge is necessarily about the same for the same amount of power generated. For a nuclear plant to discharge much more hot water than a coal plant, it would have to have much lower thermal efficiency, which is not the case. > and spent fuel storage because of the amount of time that > is required to guarantee seals. High level nuclear waste should be kept isolated for five hundred years. Since there are plenty of buildings, mostly fortresses and monuments, that have survived for a good deal longer than five hundred years, this does not seem terribly difficult. > The issue with storage is that it occurs on a time line > that is best described as near-geologic. Periods of time > that are orders of magnitude longer than human > civilizations survive. Bunkum: The contaminant that lasts geological ages is plutonium, and the arsenic dumped by a coal plant constitutes far more lethal doses than the plutonium dumped by a nuclear power plant. > Consider the difference in volume of these two waste > products... So dilution is an acceptable solution for the poison in fly ash, but it is a big problem for the plutonium in radioactive waste? If dilution is acceptable, let us dump our waste in the cold salty current coming off the arctic icecap, as the russians are doing. It will be a thousand years before that stuff comes back to the surface, and by that time only the plutonium will be a problem. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG hVZVbJPCiyR27Tdf+qFl+uj9Hc2KWiql5J1jnKJf 4lXDcc7tAkwo7qEp0ZXbXv7XJqHc7d2LpmbS0UlzA ----------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state. http://www.jim.com/jamesd/����� James A. Donald From jamesd at echeque.com Sat Oct 3 23:41:35 1998 From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 14:41:35 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) In-Reply-To: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F8476@MSX11002> Message-ID: <199810041939.MAA12936@proxy3.ba.best.com> -- At 05:28 AM 10/2/98 -0500, Brown, R Ken wrote: > Nonsense. Most of those businesses became monopolies - or > local monopolies - in the relatively unregulated 1880-1914 > period. Untrue: > In some of them - like rail or oil in the USA - governments > introduced regulation to *force* competition. In the case of the railways, the governments granted and imposed monopolies. In the case of oil, I assume you are referring to "Standard Oil", there was no monopoly, and the government regulation had little apparent effect. Also the Standard Oil issue was about refineries, not oil wells or oil pipelines. There was nothing to prevent any man or his dog from setting up a refinery, and lots of them did. > In UK over the last 30 years government has used a thing > called the "Monopolies and Mergers Commission" to > investigate & (very occasionally) break up monopolies or > cartels. This is like arguing that the existence of witch burning proves the existence of witches. > Recently government has forcibly broken up gas supply > monopolies in this country. After first forcibly creating gas supply monopolies. > What happens much more often is that one company becomes > dominant and then uses money to undersell rivals. Why don't you argue that they conduct sacrifices to Satan? A big company has no monetary advantage over a small company. Suppose Firm A controls 90% of the market and firm B controls 10% of the market. Artificially low prices cost the big firm nine times as much as the small firm. Under capitalism, the small company can duke it out on equal terms with the big firm, and with great regularity, that is exactly what they do. > Garbage (what we call rubbish over here) collection is > different again. It's not at all a nutural monopoly and > there is nothing stopping anyone offering to do it as a > business. But it is a natural for social ownership, You mistake the political adventures of your local elite for universal laws. In some parts of the world rubbish collection is private. In other parts of the world shoe production is public. In one of those nordic countries, I think Finland, the phone system was never made a public enterprise or state regulated monopoly, but most other things were. There is no "natural monopoly" that is not somewhere a private industry, and often it is a private industry in a place that is otherwise quite socialist. Public and private ownership reflect the accidents of politics and history more than they reflect the natural characteristics of the industry in dispute. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG UGkX+1b/yoE+3kHZyOhKZypmXTbwJRhUnQQmuuXZ 4wYCfh8Ku6v+DiuN6q6haMUHpW8UcDrlkVLmN20j8 ----------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state. http://www.jim.com/jamesd/����� James A. Donald From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sun Oct 4 00:06:15 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 15:06:15 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <199810042010.PAA32089@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 11:37:23 -0700 > From: "James A. Donald" > Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) > At 12:30 AM 10/1/98 -0700, Matthew James Gering wrote: > > Regulation includes much more than licensing and > > registration. Try hiring a couple employees, paying > > freelance individuals, setup office space, get yourself a > > company car and do your fed income taxes. Lightly regulated > > my ass. If they enforced every word of every code strongly > > and literally it would be nearly impossible to conduct > > business. > > To the best of my observation, every single small business is > operating illegally. The situation differs from Russia only > in degree, not in kind Prove it. List he specific rules, regulations, etc. that you believe every small business is breaking.... Put up or shut up. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jamesd at echeque.com Sun Oct 4 00:06:33 1998 From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 15:06:33 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810041405.JAA31171@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <4.0.2.19981004124328.00a7a100@shell11.ba.best.com> > > In america the various mafias get plently of competition, > > mostly by means short of actual warfare. Coke is a free > > market except for police intervention, and the local > > church is most certainly not a monopoly. At 09:05 AM 10/4/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > Coke is a free-market? That's a laugh. I suggest you study > the history of the Crips and related gangs, or the > international Coke distributors. Except for police intervention, anyone is free to buy coke from dealers affiliated with the Crips, affiliated with the Bloods, or affiliated with any one of several smaller providers of such services. Generally competition between these groups mostly resembles the competition between Visa and Mastercard with shoot outs being the exception rather than the rule. Shootouts are bad for business. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG Z3KdZnJI+f5vF118VFL0MXvnc/vax1L5aOSwtuLC 4wEeXVOQ8uu5x6lqxMjR/dzZelSR7LUosYe37IJQM ----------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state. http://www.jim.com/jamesd/����� James A. Donald From jamesd at echeque.com Sun Oct 4 00:06:34 1998 From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 15:06:34 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810041334.IAA31037@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <4.0.2.19981004123601.00bd4d00@shell11.ba.best.com> > > No monopoly has ever happened except by regulation At 08:34 AM 10/4/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > Microsoft got to where it is because of a lack of > regulation, Microsoft is not a monopoly. In servers, where much of their income comes from, Linux is eating their lunch, and the desktop is under continual threat. For a monopoly to be a monopoly, you not only have to have most of the market, you have to have some means of excluding others, which Microsoft manifestly does not. > the abuses of the aircraft industry in the 1940-50's that > led to regulation at the end of the 50's and 60's. The > steel industry in the north east in the early 1900's. The > food packing and garment industries of the north east and > pacific coast in the 20's through the 50's. The railroad > industry in the mid-1800's. You are totally deluded. None of these are examples of monopoly, except for the railroad industry where government intervention was for the purpose of creating monopoly, not preventing it. The garment and food packing industries were and are a huge network of innumerable tiny shops, and the aircraft industry had several big companies in fierce competition. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG tGwDPXVCokaVVyVk0h0Eg2GWnP+PvoDN/FVnNlrj 4rpwXX94bGxwVRYaTkgfjolUcS6JYdmdeC7V3gPK3 ----------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state. http://www.jim.com/jamesd/����� James A. Donald From jamesd at echeque.com Sun Oct 4 00:06:40 1998 From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 15:06:40 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810041331.IAA30976@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <4.0.2.19981004123048.00bc57b0@shell11.ba.best.com> At 08:31 AM 10/4/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > Malarky. Reputation is irrelevant, just examine the > prisoners delima. Yet strange to report, the banks have no problem with granting me many tens of thousands of dollars of unsecured credit. Perhaps your reputation is irrelevant. Mine, however, is obviously relevant. > Those who put reputation over action are setting themselves up for a classic > abuse of trust. My former employer Informix had probably a million dollars of small, readily fencible stuff such as memory chips in the computers of the many large buildings to which I and about six hundred other employees had access at any hour of the day or night. They appeared to me to have a policy not employing males straight out of college, but rather hiring people who had some established background but apart from that took no special precautions. In particular they did not have a night watchman wandering about at random. Their watchman sat at the door or patrolled the exterior, oriented solely on external threats. The continued solvency of Informix, rental car agencies, and so on and so forth looks indicates it is possible to readily distinguish between those who will defect in a game of prisoners dilemma, and those who will cooperate. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG 290NudELAtcM3PNN1SqalY8d8gN9gJ4SQcm4vqLY 4U3vo+UqobR2nocMv+YQS7rqA47Y6ULXH+H1AAXVp ----------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state. http://www.jim.com/jamesd/����� James A. Donald From jamesd at echeque.com Sun Oct 4 00:06:48 1998 From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 15:06:48 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810041408.JAA31231@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <4.0.2.19981004124919.00bd6db0@shell11.ba.best.com> > > the local church is most certainly not a monopoly. At 09:08 AM 10/4/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > Your local church is a member of a larger international > collective that does in fact use coercion in one form or > another. Send me some of whatever you are smoking. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG s9ZGIU5475XTNx5ONJvcatdWP8o+0shicf5WCTZR 4vZx1tKCacPwbutEfIcGHgS3Wh0Jg79kjdKlVk5YB ----------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state. http://www.jim.com/jamesd/����� James A. Donald From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sun Oct 4 00:08:37 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 15:08:37 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <199810042013.PAA32334@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 12:50:50 -0700 > From: "James A. Donald" > Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) > At 09:08 AM 10/4/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > > Your local church is a member of a larger international=20 > > collective that does in fact use coercion in one form or > > another. > > Send me some of whatever you are smoking. That's the best you can come up with? Sheesh. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sun Oct 4 00:09:57 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 15:09:57 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <199810042014.PAA32418@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 12:48:50 -0700 > From: "James A. Donald" > Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) > Except for police intervention, anyone is free to buy coke > from dealers affiliated with the Crips, affiliated with the > Bloods, or affiliated with any one of several smaller > providers of such services. Really? I dare you to wear the colors of a Crip and then sell in the Bloods neighborhood. > Generally competition between these groups mostly resembles > the competition between Visa and Mastercard with shoot outs > being the exception rather than the rule. Shootouts are bad > for business.=20 Somebody should tell them this then since they certainly don't operate that way in the real world. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From mgering at ecosystems.net Sun Oct 4 00:16:37 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 15:16:37 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A10@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com> > Microsoft got to where it is because of a lack of regulation Microsoft is not a monopoly by any stretch of the imagination. > The railroad industry in the mid-1800's. Railroads were highly competitive in the East. The railroad monopolies in the West were created by exclusive government land grants. Matt From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sun Oct 4 00:23:13 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 15:23:13 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <199810042024.PAA32554@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 12:42:58 -0700 > From: "James A. Donald" > Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) > Microsoft is not a monopoly. In servers, where much of their > income comes from, Malarky, MS makes the vast majority of their money off end-user and single machine licenses. Look at their quarterly or yearly earning statements. > Linux is eating their lunch, It is certainly growing but the fact is that by a factor of orders of magnitude commercial Unix'es own that market. When it comes to mission critical servers Solaris, HP, & AIX own the market still. > and the > desktop is under continual threat. For a monopoly to be a > monopoly, you not only have to have most of the market, you > have to have some means of excluding others, which Microsoft > manifestly does not. Not from a lack of trying on their part and the fact that federal regulators stepped in before it became totaly regulated. > You are totally deluded. None of these are examples of > monopoly, Certainly they were. Each and every example listed (and many more) were industries which were controlled by a small number of companies whose share in the total market was squeezing out competition. The results would have been a growing number of buyouts and thinning of competition to the point that only one or two companies would have survived. except for the railroad industry where government > intervention was for the purpose of creating monopoly, not > preventing it. In the aircraft industry for example, while the number of riders was growing very quickly there was a concommitent increase in end-user ticket prices that was way out of line with the increased cost of business operations as well as a decrease in the overall safety of the industry which was exemplified by a increase in the number of air crashes and aircraft who couldn't pass maintenance inspections yet continued to fly. > The garment and food packing industries were and are a huge > network of innumerable tiny shops, All working for about 5 or 6 companies who actlualy marketed and distributed the items. Just get a Dallas Texas phone book for that period (it's a distribution hub for the clothing/garment industry even today). > and the aircraft industry > had several big companies in fierce competition.=20 Yep, in the mid-50's there were like 5 national/international aircraft operators and the number of commercial avaition manufacturers selling to the national and international carrier market was like 3. There were smaller companies like Ryan for example but they were owned by the larger companies and eventualy merged into the regular operations. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sun Oct 4 00:24:36 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 15:24:36 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <199810042028.PAA32626@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: Matthew James Gering > Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) > Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 13:14:16 -0700 > > Microsoft got to where it is because of a lack of regulation > > Microsoft is not a monopoly by any stretch of the imagination. They own 90% of the desktops in this country, that's a monopoly or a company a hair-breadth's away. > > The railroad industry in the mid-1800's. > > Railroads were highly competitive in the East. The railroad monopolies > in the West were created by exclusive government land grants. Not true until after the 1890's. Prior to that the railroads in the US were owned by a total of like 5 people. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sun Oct 4 00:29:20 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 15:29:20 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <199810042032.PAA32689@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 12:35:49 -0700 > From: "James A. Donald" > Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) > > Malarky. Reputation is irrelevant, just examine the > > prisoners delima. > > Yet strange to report, the banks have no problem with granting me many tens > of thousands of dollars of unsecured credit. Which is exactly my point, default on a single one of those and watch what happens. > Perhaps your reputation is irrelevant. Mine, however, is obviously= > relevant. Only to you. What is important is the *fact* that you continue paying the bills. Default and all the *desire* in the world won't bring back those loans. > The continued solvency of Informix, rental car agencies, and so on and so > forth looks indicates it is possible to readily distinguish between those > who will defect in a game of prisoners dilemma, and those who will= > cooperate. That's so funny. Please produce the amount Informix lost by employee theft last year for example. If it's zero then you may have a point. I'll bet you it wasn't and isn't. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From abayley at pop.ihug.co.nz Sun Oct 4 15:44:24 1998 From: abayley at pop.ihug.co.nz (abayley at pop.ihug.co.nz) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 15:44:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Find Out Anything About Anyone On The Net !!!! Message-ID: <199810042243.RAA22281@app.fwi.com> YOU can easily learn how to investigate and learn EVERYTHING about your employees, neighbors, friends, enemies, and or anyone else !!! It is absolutely amazing !!! 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If you are a Washington resident or otherwise wish to be removed from this list, go to global remove site if you want your address removed from future mailing. http://209.84.246.162/remove.htm This Global Communication has been sent to you by: PAVILION ADVERTISING SERVICES Offices: London, Paris, Berlin, Hong Kong From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sun Oct 4 00:48:11 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 15:48:11 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <199810042051.PAA32751@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 12:11:04 -0700 > From: "James A. Donald" > Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) > At 05:28 AM 10/2/98 -0500, Brown, R Ken wrote: > > Nonsense. Most of those businesses became monopolies - or > > local monopolies - in the relatively unregulated 1880-1914 > > period.=20 > > Untrue: Actualy it is. But I'd certaily entertain any evidence you may want to present to your case...other than just saying it over and over. > > In some of them - like rail or oil in the USA - governments > > introduced regulation to *force* competition.=20 > > In the case of the railways, the governments granted and > imposed monopolies. Only after the early 1890's when the situation got so bad they had to do something. Prior to that there was no federal intervention in railroad operations per se (I say that because the US government used the railroads at a very hefty discount). > In the case of oil, I assume you are > referring to "Standard Oil", there was no monopoly, and the > government regulation had little apparent effect.=20 You assume wrong. I am talking of the entire oil industry as a whole. > Also the Standard Oil issue was about refineries, not oil > wells or oil pipelines. There was nothing to prevent any man > or his dog from setting up a refinery, and lots of them did. The issue in the oil industry isn't the refineries or pipelines or any of that other stuff. It's mineral rights. And every drop of mineral rights in this country is owned by oil companies or the US government as a result of the conflicts that took place from the late 1800's to the early 1900's. > > Recently government has forcibly broken up gas supply > > monopolies in this country. =20 > > After first forcibly creating gas supply monopolies. Actualy the local and state regulators did that back in the late 50's and early 60's the federals had no hand in it. The same happend prior to the TVA projects of the late 20's and 30's with the electric production industry. > > What happens much more often is that one company becomes > > dominant and then uses money to undersell rivals. > > Why don't you argue that they conduct sacrifices to Satan? Because then he would be doing what you like to do, change the subject and claim it's the same thing. > A big company has no monetary advantage over a small company. You know nothing of how large businesses work over small ones then. > Suppose Firm A controls 90% of the market and firm B controls > 10% of the market. Artificially low prices cost the big firm > nine times as much as the small firm. Bullshit math. The interactions are nowhere near as simple as you state. The big company has the resources to outlast the smaller company in any industry that can monopolize (an issue you seem to miss, not all industries can monopolize) and if its' smart will buy the smaller company at some point (unless prevented) as the smaller companies becomes resource starved. > Under capitalism, the > small company can duke it out on equal terms with the big > firm, and with great regularity, that is exactly what they > do. Examples please where a small firm dukes it out (sic) on equal terms with a larger one... > Garbage (what we call rubbish over here) collection is > > different again. It's not at all a nutural monopoly and > > there is nothing stopping anyone offering to do it as a > > business. But it is a natural for social ownership, > > You mistake the political adventures of your local elite for > universal laws. In some parts of the world rubbish > collection is private. In just about everyplace in the US the company doing the trash collection and dumping is private, especialy in the bigger cities. They may be working under contract for the city but the company is privately held. My suspicion is that most places on the planet, excluding control markets like Cuba, use private companies under contract for this. > In other parts of the world shoe > production is public. What country produces shoes as a function of government agency and prevents private shoe production? I must admit I nearly hurt myself laughing at this one. > In one of those nordic countries, I think Finland, the phone > system was never made a public enterprise or state regulated > monopoly, but most other things were. Then how does it operate? Who owns the switches and wires? Either it's a public utility or it's some sort of private enterprise (though it may be under contract to the government). > There is no "natural monopoly" that is not somewhere a A 'natural' monoploy, to my mind, is a company that operates in an industry that can be saturated. By saturation I mean that the demand of the market can be met by a small number (approaching 1 if left unregulated over time, usualy by by-outs or business experation) of manufacturers. The VCR industry is a great example of a 'natural' monopoly. Only a few years ago *every* VCR mechanism on the planet was made by one of 5 companies and with the cessation of Curtis-Williams, not one of them was a US company. It is not possible to buy a VCR designed and made in the US today because of this market monopolization. It is also impossible to start such a company because the costs of market entry are too enormous. There is *no* government regulation of the VCR industry outside of EOE issues to this day. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sun Oct 4 00:57:07 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 15:57:07 +0800 Subject: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd) Message-ID: <199810042101.QAA00049@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 11:40:34 -0700 > From: "James A. Donald" > Subject: Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... > Observe that the level of harm is approximately proportional > to the level of government regulation. Please be so kind as to demonstrate by example why you believe that by de-regulating the food industry, for example, we would recieve better quality foodstuffs? Without regulation why would these companies quit mixing their products and making better systems of quality control so that the cases of E. Coli for example would decrease? Why is it that the number of deaths in this country from salmonella and related food diseases have *decreased* since the industry was regulated in the early 1920's when the problem (people getting sick or dying from adulterated foodstuffs) was at its peak? Just look at the current issues related to non-pasteurized fruit juice prodcts for a current example of the consequences of free-market economics lack of regulation and by extension responsibility and the consequences thereof. > You presuppose that government officials will be more > virtuous than private individuals. This is obviously > unlikely, since they have less reason to fear retribution > than private individuals. It's the private companies fearing retribution from the government, not the end user. Your reasoning is faulty. In an industry that is completely unregulated by anyone other than the consumer and the producer the consumer will be taken advantage of. The reason is that there is no real-world market force that will force compliance. Now some are going to scream that the consumer will, the problem is that the consumer is denied the information about/from the producer they require in order to make the reasoned judgement. The bottem line as to why free-market economies don't work is that it isn't in the producers best interest to have a educated consumer. They might buy somebody elses product or start their own company. Both of those are bad for profits. Free-market mavens forget that producers are just as greedy and corrupt as everyone else, there is no fair competition in an unregulated market given the pshychological make up of human beings. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From honig at sprynet.com Sun Oct 4 01:09:19 1998 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 16:09:19 +0800 Subject: Randomness testing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981004135242.00882410@m7.sprynet.com> At 03:36 PM 10/2/98 +1000, Clifford Heath wrote: >We have been asked by a customer if we have any tests that demonstrate >the randomness of the SSLeay random number generator (augmented by some >sound-card random number seeding that we wrote). > >I'd like to find some standard implementation for testing randomness, but >Schneier offers no help (other than a reference to Knuth Vol 2), and I >don't know where else to turn. > >I realise that cryptographic randomness requires unpredictability, and >this quality depends upon closed-world assumptions about unknown individuals' >predictive powers, but we have to live with that. * Marsaglia's DIEHARD suite, also see DIEHARDC * I posted code for Maurer's Universal statistical test a week or so ago; I find this discriminates between a cipher output and real noise... * Find the RAND corp paper on random numbers * See FIPS 140 From honig at sprynet.com Sun Oct 4 01:09:42 1998 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 16:09:42 +0800 Subject: Randomness testing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981004135551.00888630@m7.sprynet.com> At 11:13 AM 10/2/98 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote: >Clifford Heath wrote: >> >I suggest that you do at least Maurer's test which is described >in A. J. Menezes et al. Handbook of Applied Cryptography. The >test is not difficult to code. You could also look at my code in >http://www.stud.uni-muenchen.de/~mok-kong.shen/#paper1 in Fortran. > >M. K. Shen > /* UELI.c 1 Oct 98 This implements Ueli M Maurer's "Universal Statistical Test for Random Bit Generators" using L=16 Accepts a filename on the command line; writes its results, with other info, to stdout. Handles input file exhaustion gracefully. Ref: J. Cryptology v 5 no 2, 1992 pp 89-105 also on the web somewhere, which is where I found it. -David Honig honig at sprynet.com Built with Wedit 2.3, lcc-win32 http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~lcc-win32 26 Sept CP Release Version Notes: This version does L=16. It evolved from an L=8 prototype which I ported from the Pascal in the above reference. I made the memory usage reasonable by replacing Maurer's "block" array with the 'streaming' fgetc() call. Usage: UELI filename outputs to stdout */ #define L 16 // bits per block #define V (1< #include int main( int argc, char **argv ) { FILE *fptr; int i; int b, c; int table[V]; float sum=0.0; int run; // Human Interface printf("UELI 26 Sep 98\nL=%d %d %d \n", L, V, MAXSAMP); if (argc <2) {printf("Usage: UELI filename\n"); exit(-1); } else printf("Measuring file %s\n", argv[1]); // FILE IO fptr=fopen(argv[1],"rb"); if (fptr == NULL) {printf("Can't find %s\n", argv[1]); exit(-1); } // INIT for (i=0; i Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981004141215.0088c9f0@m7.sprynet.com> At 12:25 PM 10/3/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote: >Hello, > >I was in Bookstop a while ago and noticed two books that could be of >potential interest. Let me recommend: "Eat the Rich" by PJ O'rourke. Humorous introduction to meaning of money, generation of wealth, laissez-fair, and his experiences in Cuba, Sweden, Albania, Tanzania learning about these. An easy read, possibly of interest for neophytes interested in why we have no ecash (or quantized bananas). (Neither are answered). From nobody at replay.com Sun Oct 4 01:18:40 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 16:18:40 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199810042112.XAA11806@replay.com> At 12:59 PM 10/3/98 -0400, Michael Motyka wrote: >> There is a desert which is 1000 miles across. There is a camel who can carry >> 1000 bananas maximum. The camel eats 1 banana per mile travelled. The camel >> has a total of 3000 bananas to begin with. What is the maximum number of >> bananas that the camel can get across to the other side uneaten? > >My camels don't understand/can't eat fractional bananas. Why are bananas quantized in the presense of camels? Is this a quantum-computing thing? From rms at santafe.edu Sun Oct 4 01:24:33 1998 From: rms at santafe.edu (Richard Stallman) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 16:24:33 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) In-Reply-To: <199809281845.TAA18662@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: <199810042124.PAA06247@wijiji.santafe.edu> d) As far as I can work out, someone who wants to free part of a product, but not all of it, can't practically do so under GPL. I'm not really sure what that means, but I have a feeling that there is a misunderstanding at the root of it. Could you describe the scenario more clearly, so I could tell for certain? From rms at santafe.edu Sun Oct 4 01:24:47 1998 From: rms at santafe.edu (Richard Stallman) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 16:24:47 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) In-Reply-To: <199809281845.TAA18662@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: <199810042124.PAA06245@wijiji.santafe.edu> A couple of people responded to this It isn't surprising that people who want to write non-free software are disappointed that the GNU project won't help them. What is amazing is that they feel this is unfair. by expressing doubt that anyone really thinks so. I think the person who wrote this text I used to be quite pro-GNU until I tried this exercise (writing commercial crypto software for software companies) and ended up re-writing huge tracts of stuff just to remove the GNU license virus. made that feeling quite clear through his use of name-calling. He did not content himself with saying, "I had to rewrite huge tracts of stuff because its authors did not give permission to use it in a proprietary program," because that straightforward and accurate description would have shown why his resentment was unjustified. From rms at santafe.edu Sun Oct 4 01:25:06 1998 From: rms at santafe.edu (Richard Stallman) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 16:25:06 +0800 Subject: No Subject In-Reply-To: <199810010100.DAA26700@replay.com> Message-ID: <199810042123.PAA06233@wijiji.santafe.edu> The GNU GPL discourages the sale of proprietary software by prohibiting anything using code covered by the license from being proprietary, and that's right. The proposed Cypherpunks license discourages the distribution of software with key recovery (= government back doors) by prohibiting anything using code covered by the license from having key recovery, and that's wrong. Yes, exactly. To uphold freedom for all users is right; to impose your specific preferences on users who want to do something else is wrong, because it takes away their freedom. I don't like back doors, but I support users' freedom to install back doors, for the same reason I support your freedom of speech even when you say things I don't like. The crucial thing is that each user should be free to choose for perself; we must avoid giving a person, company or government the power to choose for others. The GNU GPL insists that everyone have the freedom to (1) see what is inside the software they use, and (2) change it if they don't like it. When everyone has this freedom, they can reject back doors, if they want to. If an otherwise-useful program has a back door, people can tell. (Most users would not have the training to recognize one, but someone will spot it, and will warn the public.) They can also remove the back door "feature", and distribute a modified version which has the same useful features but no back door. If instead you make a requirement of "no government back doors", but you permit proprietary versions whose source code is secret, what will be the result? If the person who makes a proprietary version obeys your terms, it will have no government back door, but it might contain something else bad, and no one could tell, including you. What if someone makes a proprietary version and adds a back door? That would violate your terms, but would you know? Let's suppose you do know that your code was used, either because person says so or because you figure it out. That does not enable you to tell that the back door was added. Thus, as a practical matter, you cannot enforce this requirement the way you can enforce the GNU GPL. (Once you know your code was used, a violation of the GPL is blatantly obvious.) Looking at the issue in a broader context, companies have the resources to avoid using your code. No matter how useful your package may be, they can write other code to do the same job. If you convince the users that government back doors are a bad thing, but they think that proprietary (non-free) programs are ok, they will always have to take it on trust that a given proprietary software product has no back doors. To be sure, if the product includes your code, any back door would violate your terms (if only you knew about it); but users will see no reason to insist on a product that uses your code. They may just as well choose a product that uses some other implementation of the same feature, and that alternative implementation may not have any prohibition on adding a back door. If instead we convince the users that non-free software is a bad thing, or even only that non-free crypto software is a bad thing, that does the job much more thoroughly. They may still choose a product that uses some other implementation instead of your code, but if that product is free software, they will be able to check its source for back doors just the same. The best way for the users to avoid *any* particular hidden misfeature in software is to insist on using only free software. From jamesd at echeque.com Sun Oct 4 01:56:09 1998 From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 16:56:09 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810042024.PAA32554@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199810042156.OAA18581@proxy3.ba.best.com> >> Microsoft is not a monopoly. [...] Linux is eating their >> lunch, At 03:24 PM 10/4/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > It is certainly growing but the fact is that by a factor of > orders of magnitude commercial Unix'es own that market. > When it comes to mission critical servers Solaris, HP, & > AIX own the market still. The number one server is not Microsoft, and is not commercial. And if it was commercial, Microsoft would still be being eaten alive in the server market. They still have their lunch in the end user market, but the wolves are eyeing that also. > In the aircraft industry for example, while the number of > riders was growing very quickly there was a concommitent > increase in end-user ticket prices that was way out of line > with the increased cost of business operations as well as > [...] When you make up facts it is customary to invent names, places, and dates in order to give the appearance of verisimilitude. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG 37RmYMVajW0Tw1f5iy1gJUreAXMZoIsD71kbTgi2 4A/lXSKOHk7Ru9/A6+FhVDSgj9sBgAyDS57+IF402 ----------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state. http://www.jim.com/jamesd/����� James A. Donald From jamesd at echeque.com Sun Oct 4 01:57:31 1998 From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 16:57:31 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810042051.PAA32751@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199810042156.OAA18583@proxy3.ba.best.com> Jim Choate claims that free markets are routinely overrun by monopolies. I say this is nonsense. At 03:51 PM 10/4/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > But I'd certaily entertain any evidence you may want to > present to your case. How can anyone present evidence when except for Microsoft you have not named a single company that alleged became a monopoly, and you have been vague about the markets that these companies allegedly monopolized, and the periods during which these markets were monpolized. It is as if you were claiming that giant monsters frequently terrorized US cities. Unless you make a specific allegation, no refutation is possible or necessary. For example if you were to claim that King Kong demolished the empire state building, then someone could point out that the empire state building still stands. A simple explanation for your inability to name any specific giant monsters, or any particular places and times where these giant monsters were rampaging, is that these giant monsters do not exist, and never have existed. > Examples please where a small firm dukes it out (sic) on > equal terms with a larger one... MacDonalds vs Burger King. Hertz vs Avis. Mastercard vs Visa. And of course, the biggest mismatch of them all Microsoft vs Linux. > > You mistake the political adventures of your local elite > > for universal laws. > What country produces shoes as a function of government > agency and prevents private shoe production? > > I must admit I nearly hurt myself laughing at this one. Holland used to do this on the grounds that shoes were a vital necessity, and if the market was left to private enterprise some people would go shoeless. > A 'natural' monoploy, to my mind, is a company that > operates in an industry that can be saturated. By > saturation I mean that the demand of the market can be met > by a small number (approaching 1 if left unregulated over > time, usualy by by-outs or business experation) of > manufacturers. There is no empirical evidence that any natural monopolies exist. > The VCR industry is a great example of a 'natural' > monopoly. Only a few years ago *every* VCR mechanism on the > planet was made by one of 5 companies and with the > cessation of Curtis-Williams, not one of them was a US > company. This does not make the VCR business a monopoly. It would only be a monopoly if the existing players were free to raise prices. Manifestly the market for the mechanism of the VCR has become a commodity market, in which profit margins are extremely low. The same is true of the aluminium market, where you have all aluminium smelted by a single provider. There is nothing to stop anyone else from going into the business, but because the profit margins are razor thin, nobody bothers. Although there is only a single company, it is not a monopoly because if they expanded their very thin proft margins by the slightest degree, other people would promptly eat their lunch. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG oa82+HWPHe6y441fIArVLbuu3EwwEh2ZOS4Pi3jk 4Lscjd2dJEP8tQjtxX0+5pcrFhvS7G3mJz67hoycC ----------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state. http://www.jim.com/jamesd/����� James A. Donald From rah at shipwright.com Sun Oct 4 02:13:33 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 17:13:33 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) In-Reply-To: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A1928471D@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com> Message-ID: At 2:37 PM -0400 on 10/4/98, James A. Donald wrote: > To the best of my observation, every single small business is > operating illegally. Amen. Literally. That is, when the church ruled our lives, it was impossible not to be sinning for some reason. These days, the state rules our lives, and we're all breaking the law. Most criminologists will tell that the more corrupt the jurisdiction, the harder it is to be in compliance with the law. That way, it's easier for the state's functionaries to shake you down. Ayn Rand has a great quote about this, which I have long forgotten, but my favorite bit of impromptu wisdom on the subject is from Vinnie Moscaritolo, who blurted out one night, on a long climb up Page Mill road, "'If we could just pass a few more laws', we could all be criminals!" Also, Voltaire was famous for saying, in French of course :-), 'death to la infame' (le? I took latin instead, and was bad at it, anyway.). By la infame, "the infamous thing", he meant the church, of course. While it probably sounds a little haughtier than "smash the state", (or, as I am wont say, *surfact* the state ;-)), Voltaire's saying, in the original, might make a nice slogan to, um, resurrect, if someone wants to dust off their college french and do the honors... Odd thing for a man to say who was buried in the floor of a church anyway. It'd be like putting Mr. Young in Arlington, or something. ;-). Cheers, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Sun Oct 4 04:16:20 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 19:16:20 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) In-Reply-To: <199810042124.PAA06245@wijiji.santafe.edu> Message-ID: <199810050004.BAA00788@server.eternity.org> Richard Stallman writes: > A couple of people responded to this > > It isn't surprising that people who want to write non-free software > are disappointed that the GNU project won't help them. What is > amazing is that they feel this is unfair. > > by expressing doubt that anyone really thinks so. Well I don't think it's unfair, and it's my post you quoted as an example! Anyone who writes something is clearly free to put anything they like in their licenses. This was not the point being made. As there seems to be some confusion, let me try to summarise why several people have said they prefer BSD license (or indeed LGPL) to GNU GPL _in the particular case of crypto code_: Cypherpunks are interested to deploy crypto code with out backdoors (`cypherpunks write code' and all that). Consider for a moment that this is your primary aim. It is useful to build upon on other cypherpunks code. (Having to code everything from scratch is going to take you a long time..., let's see we'll start with re-writing a bignum library from scratch). You would like your code to be widely deployed, and some companies are good at distributing code. If you could get them to include crypto in their applications that would be a lot of crypto out there. So when someone writes crypto code form this perspective the BSD license better achieves their aim. This is not an insult to the FSF's aims. The BSD license (for example) is in some ways more free than the GNU license: it allows free distribution, but is less strict in propagating this to derived works. This lesser strictness is useful for crypto deployment because it allows commercial derivative works (what you have termed proprietary) software. Cypherpunks want to encourage these also, though they would prefer that source be available so that people can check for quality, correctness, and for backdoors. The comments on having to re-write GNU code which several people made (in the context of crypto software) are not saying that it is "unfair that GNU contributers don't do free work for the cypherpunk cause", what it is saying is this: If your aim is to maximise crypto deployment, use BSD or some other relatively free distribution license other than GNU, so that we can more rapidly write and deploy crypto software to undermine the power of the state. 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If you need more information or won't to order just go to the email address below: magical203 at hotmail.com From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Sun Oct 4 05:59:58 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 20:59:58 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) (fwd) Message-ID: <199810050201.VAA01105@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 01:04:20 +0100 > From: Adam Back > Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) > If your aim is to maximise crypto deployment, use BSD or some other > relatively free distribution license other than GNU, so that we can > more rapidly write and deploy crypto software to undermine the power > of the state. With the proviso that the original author looses all access to profits from that code, effectively doing the R&D for untold numbers of companies without compensation or even recognition (they can claim it's all theirs at that point because they don't have to release the source). ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From bv111 at hotmail.com Sun Oct 4 21:14:17 1998 From: bv111 at hotmail.com (bv111 at hotmail.com) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 21:14:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: SPY FILE!!!....GET THE DIRT ON ANYONE!!!! Message-ID: <199234233019.GAA08423@qqeioweisssiiie.com>



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From Alten at home.com  Sun Oct  4 07:48:50 1998
From: Alten at home.com (Alex Alten)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 22:48:50 +0800
Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
In-Reply-To: <36134ACF.A09E1263@algroup.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981004210155.00aadd60@mail>



Richard and others,

Please stop.  This thread does not belong on the 
coderpunks mailing list.  If you want to argue
about BXA vs GPL please take it elsewhere.

- Alex

--

Alex Alten

Alten at Home.Com
Alten at TriStrata.Com

P.O. Box 11406
Pleasanton, CA  94588  USA
(925) 417-0159





From blancw at cnw.com  Sun Oct  4 08:04:24 1998
From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 23:04:24 +0800
Subject: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199810042101.QAA00049@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <000501bdf016$5b28f700$7e8195cf@blanc>



>From Jim Choate:

: The bottem line as to why free-market economies don't work is that it isn't
: in the producers best interest to have a educated consumer.  They might buy
: somebody elses product or start their own company. Both of those are bad for
: profits.
:
: Free-market mavens forget that producers are just as greedy and corrupt as
: everyone else, there is no fair competition in an unregulated market given
: the pshychological make up of human beings.
........................................................................................


Free market economices don't "work", simply because they are run by humans, who regularly suffer
psychological breakdowns, envy, and mistakes of judgement, not to mention disreputable marketing
departments.   Regulated economies, however, are run by government drones, and are therefore perfect
vehicles which, with unfailing success, make all of their captive customers happy.

Everyone knows this, as we witness the apparent success of all those regulated economies overseas
which outshine the U.S. by three (maybe four) orders of magnitude.  No one over there envies the
U.S. productivity and standard of living, and they never are moved to leave and come live over here,
to give up the benefits which extreme regulation confers upon them, in place of the (admittedly
mixed) free-market fiasco which operates over here, where all things are uncertain and frighteningly
unpredictable.

In fact, many people become so disgusted with the monopolies and disfunctional liberty which exists
here, that they regularly expatriate to go live in places like Sweden, Germany, even Canada, where
they have the peace of mind and assurance that State coercion will provide for their every need  -
in a most efficient, timely, prompt, and user-friendly manner.

They never have to worry about who has more or less, who is better or worse, or who knows better
than anyone what is best for everyone.  It's all been pre-established and exists incontrovertibly in
their national consumer database.

    ..
Blanc





From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com  Sun Oct  4 08:43:14 1998
From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 23:43:14 +0800
Subject: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810050447.XAA01383@einstein.ssz.com>



Forwarded message:

> From: "Blanc" 
> Subject: RE: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd)
> Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 21:09:55 -0700

> Free market economices don't "work", simply because they are run by humans,
 who regularly suffer
> psychological breakdowns, envy, and mistakes of judgement, not to mention
 disreputable marketing
> departments.   Regulated economies, however, are run by government drones,
 and are therefore perfect
> vehicles which, with unfailing success, make all of their captive customers
 happy.
> 

Not so, but I appreciate the sense of irony in your comment.

> Everyone knows this, as we witness the apparent success of all those
 regulated economies overseas
> which outshine the U.S. by three (maybe four) orders of magnitude.  No one
 over there envies the
> U.S. productivity and standard of living, and they never are moved to leave
 and come live over here,
> to give up the benefits which extreme regulation confers upon them, in
 place of the (admittedly
> mixed) free-market fiasco which operates over here, where all things are
 uncertain and frighteningly
> unpredictable.

Simply because people see a better place does not imply it is the *best*
place.

Selecting the lesser of two evils does not magicaly make one a goodness.
It's still an evil.

> In fact, many people become so disgusted with the monopolies and
 disfunctional liberty which exists
> here, that they regularly expatriate to go live in places like Sweden,
 Germany, even Canada, where
> they have the peace of mind and assurance that State coercion will provide
 for their every need  -
> in a most efficient, timely, prompt, and user-friendly manner.
 
> They never have to worry about who has more or less, who is better or worse,
 or who knows better
> than anyone what is best for everyone.  It's all been pre-established and
 exists incontrovertibly in
> their national consumer database.

It would be nice if  you said something other than "I disagree". It would
really be nice if you cold describe specific examples and hypothesis, but
that obviously is asking too much.

Ah well.

    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage at ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------





From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com  Sun Oct  4 08:48:56 1998
From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 23:48:56 +0800
Subject: Another question about free-markets...
Message-ID: <199810050453.XAA01444@einstein.ssz.com>



Milton Friedman won the Nobel price in 1976 in economics. One of the
questions he asked was:

Do corporate executives, provided they stay within the law, have
responsibilities in their business activities other than to make as much
money for their stockholders as possible?

His answer was 'no', they have no responsibility outside of those two
considerations (ie the law, stockholders expectations of profit).

Now in a free-market, by definition, there is no law. What then is the
responsibility of businesses other than the pure unadulterated pursuit of
profit? If this includes lying, denying consumers information, etc. what
harm is done, they have fulfilled their responsibility to their shareholders
(potentialy quite lucratively) and broken no law. Within this environment it
follows that a primary strategy for such executives is the elimination of
*all* competition. And since there is no law other than the measure of profit
all can be justified.

    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage at ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------





From rikoso81 at prodigy.com  Mon Oct  5 00:02:44 1998
From: rikoso81 at prodigy.com (rikoso81 at prodigy.com)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 00:02:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Regarding- Psychic Readings
Message-ID: <199810053451FAA9809@post.daikei.co.jp>



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If you are a Washington resident or otherwise wish to be removed from this list, go to global remove site if you want your address removed from future mailing. http://209.84.246.162/remove.htm This Global Communication has been sent to you by: PAVILION INTERNATIONAL SERVICES Offices: London, Paris, Berlin, Hong Kong From rodlogic at yahoo.com Sun Oct 4 09:23:01 1998 From: rodlogic at yahoo.com (Rod Logic) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 00:23:01 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <19981005051303.12542.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com> _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From jamesd at echeque.com Sun Oct 4 09:43:33 1998 From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 00:43:33 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810042014.PAA32418@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <4.0.2.19981004140550.00a73a20@shell11.ba.best.com> > > Except for police intervention, anyone is free to buy coke > > from dealers affiliated with the Crips, affiliated with the > > Bloods, or affiliated with any one of several smaller > > providers of such services. At 03:14 PM 10/4/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > Really? I dare you to wear the colors of a Crip and then sell in the Bloods > neighborhood. It is not necessary to wear colors when buying drugs. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG NNyzlfFoQPvD+PpoSEHWiAEieWio2L2mK86eLP83 4TkkfRz3u+9afancvskOlFITdjJ+TM0dazEUQsv4s ----------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state. http://www.jim.com/jamesd/����� James A. Donald From mgering at ecosystems.net Sun Oct 4 10:02:23 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 01:02:23 +0800 Subject: Capitalism and Monopolies (was RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction) Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A15@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com> Jim Choate wrote: > Only after the early 1890's when the situation got so bad > they had to do something. Prior to that there was no federal > intervention in railroad operations per se Completely false. Traffic to/from the West coast did not warrant the capital investment in transcontinental railway, so the government make *exclusive* lands grants to specific railroads to extend the railways to the West coast (100M acres between 1863-7) . Those subsidies created the monopolies, the source of coercive power over Western farmers. Protest against this arbitrary power was blamed on the market instead of the government subsidies, and resulted in the Interstate Commerce Act of 1887, and the Sherman Act of 1890. I should have stated government "distortions" instead of "regulation." That includes subsidies. > And every drop of mineral rights in this country is owned > by oil companies or the US government as a result of the > conflicts that took place from the late 1800's to the > early 1900's. The placement (ownership) of these rights, their value, restrictions and enforcement are the result of a free market? No, government intervention. > Actualy the local and state regulators did that back in the > late 50's and early 60's the federals had no hand in it. Did anyone ever state monopolies result from federal regulations? Government distortion/intervention, that can come at any level. Acts of force or coercion can create a monopolistic situation, free trade cannot. > Bullshit math. The interactions are nowhere near as simple as > you state. The big company has the resources to outlast the > smaller company in any industry that can monopolize (an issue > you seem to miss, not all industries can monopolize) So what is the discriminating factor(s) distinguishing industries that can and cannot be monopolized? Don't forget capital markets; a free fluid capital market can and will support a smaller competitor if potential long term profits will support it. I will qualify that we do not have a very free capital market, it currently favors larger businesses. The answer is to deregulate the capital market. Even with our heavily regulated capital markets this works often. > Examples please where a small firm dukes it out (sic) on > equal terms with a larger one... Equality is about freedom of action, not status or result. Amazon vs Barnes & Noble, Yahoo vs NBC, Red Hat vs Microsoft, etc. I see the egalitarian perversion of "equality" polluting arguments against free market capitalism. Equal states and "game" like fairness and handicapping is not ideal, Freedom is ideal. > > In one of those nordic countries, I think Finland, the phone > > system was never made a public enterprise or state regulated > > monopoly, but most other things were. > > Then how does it operate? Who owns the switches and wires? > Either it's a public utility or it's some sort of private > enterprise (though it may by under contract to the government). However buys and installs the switches and wires. There is no artificial barriers such as right-of-way restrictions, exclusive franchise, utilities commission, or nationalization. There are many competing telecom companies, all the way to local loop. > > There is no "natural monopoly" that is not somewhere a > > A 'natural' monoploy, to my mind, is a company that operates > in an industry that can be saturated. That's a perverted definition of 'natural' monopoly. A 'natural' monopoly involves something where all or none must benefit (e.g. military defense) or something based on a severely scarce resource (e.g. real estate to your house). Market saturation is a natural effect of free competition, the number of firms it takes is irrelevant, and competition is not barred by artificial restraint, only profit. If a firm abuses its position competition can and will capitalize on the opportunity. A coercive monopoly is one that is immune to market constraints (supply and demand) -- that requires artificial barriers. > The VCR industry is a great example of a 'natural' monopoly. You must be joking. I could enter the video recording/playback equipment market tomorrow with sufficient capitalization and turn good profits in 5 years. I didn't say VCR because that is terribly myopic, the market demand is the function not the technology. Technology and innovation is a natural destabilizer to monopoly positions. Matt From jamesd at echeque.com Sun Oct 4 10:13:44 1998 From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 01:13:44 +0800 Subject: Another question about free-markets... In-Reply-To: <199810050453.XAA01444@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199810050614.XAA14618@proxy3.ba.best.com> At 11:53 PM 10/4/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > Now in a free-market, by definition, there is no law. What > then is the responsibility of businesses other than the > pure unadulterated pursuit of profit? None whatsoever. > If this includes lying, denying consumers information, etc. > what harm is done, they have fulfilled their responsibility > to their shareholders (potentialy quite lucratively) While there is a sucker born every minute, the strategy you describe is for the most part unlikely to be profitable. > Within this environment it follows that a primary strategy > for such executives is the elimination of *all* > competition. Fortunately the most cost effective method of eliminating all competition is that followed by Alcoa, to deliver a satisfactory product at the cheapest possible price. In the cocaine market a number of organizations have attempted to employ other methods for eliminating competition, but here in America these methods have generally proved not only unprofitable, but also for the most part fatal. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG GyHvJ0Mh5TLXWeuRFFAMR+C9RlwfJf71h1IZ/fFt 4+Ev0QZVg+BYgSXjL4IgOBonA/OwuM11NaPGTgMxr ----------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state. http://www.jim.com/jamesd/����� James A. Donald From stuffed at stuffed.net Mon Oct 5 01:20:47 1998 From: stuffed at stuffed.net (STUFFED MONDAY OCTOBER 5 1998) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 01:20:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- Message-ID: <19981005071000.8168.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com> STUFFED HAS EVOLVED OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF MONTH, THANKS TO ALL YOUR FEEDBACK. NOW WE HAVE BOUGHT IN THOUSANDS MORE HI- RES PHOTOS FROM TOP SEX PHOTOGRAPHERS, WE SCOUR THE WEB EACH DAY TO FIND LINKS TO SITES WITH 100S MORE FREE IMAGES, AND THERE'S SO MUCH MORE, SUCH AS THE FIVE EXTRA BONUS PICS YOU GET EVERY DAY NOW, THAT YOU WON'T FIND ON THE STUFFED WEB SITE, THEY ARE EXCLUSIVE TO OUR SUBSCRIBERS! AND THERE'S SO MUCH MORE TO COME, SO KEEP COMING BACK FOR MORE EACH DAY! This email is never sent unsolicited. Stuffed is the supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full instructions on unsubscribing are in every issue of Eureka! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- From mgering at ecosystems.net Sun Oct 4 10:34:23 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 01:34:23 +0800 Subject: Another question about free-markets... Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A16@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com> Jim Choate wrote: > Now in a free-market, by definition, there is no law. A free market is not the absence of law (that is anarchy), a free market is the absence of government intervention in trade and commerce. That does not mean people and businesses are immune from criminal law, fraud statutes, civil liability, etc. > If this includes lying, denying consumers information, The market addresses information disclosure by favoring vendors that disclose. The legal system addresses intentional misinformation. You are confusing Laissez Faire [free market] Capitalism with Anarcho-Capitalism. Matt From nobody at replay.com Sun Oct 4 10:35:09 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 01:35:09 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199810050630.IAA21291@replay.com> > At 12:59 PM 10/3/98 -0400, Michael Motyka wrote: > >> There is a desert which is 1000 miles across. There is a camel who can > carry > >> 1000 bananas maximum. The camel eats 1 banana per mile travelled. The camel > >> has a total of 3000 bananas to begin with. What is the maximum number of > >> bananas that the camel can get across to the other side uneaten? > > > >My camels don't understand/can't eat fractional bananas. > > Why are bananas quantized in the presense of camels? Is this > a quantum-computing thing? > Can the camel increase his miles/banana ratio if he dries out the peels and smokes them?? From mgering at ecosystems.net Sun Oct 4 10:53:18 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 01:53:18 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A17@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com> "Corruptissima republicae, plurimae leges." -- Tacitus > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Hettinga [mailto:rah at shipwright.com] > Most criminologists will tell that the more corrupt the > jurisdiction, the harder it is to be in compliance with > the law. That way, it's easier for the state's > functionaries to shake you down. > "'If we could just pass a few more laws', we could all be > criminals!" From gwb at gwb.com.au Mon Oct 5 02:03:02 1998 From: gwb at gwb.com.au (Scott Balson) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 02:03:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: One Nation thank you Message-ID: <003401bdef6d$c1e31380$675212cb@QU.fox.uq.net.ai> Dear One Nation supporter in NSW� Pauline Hanson would like to personally thank you for the outstanding support that you gave to the party before and during the election. � Coverage of the events in Blair - including the One Nation party on election evening can be seen on-line at: � http://www.gwb.com.au/gwb/news/onenation/federal/live � --------- � PARTIES CONSPIRE TO KEEP IMMIGRATION OUT OF ELECTION, BOOK SHOWSThe author of a new book called "This Tired Brown Land" has accused the majorpolitical parties of conspiring to keep immigration and population off theelection agenda. The book has already attracted good reviews.Author Mark O'Connor today claimed that both the major political partieswere suppressing discussion in order to deny One Nation 'the oxygen ofpublicity'. But it is exactly such bipartisan ignoring of public sentimenton immigration which caused One Nation, and led to the enormous success ofPaul Sheehan's book Among the Barbarianns.Immigration Minister Philip Ruddock recently launched the Coalition'spolicy in Perth-too late in the day for the Eastern media to pick up thestory. Says author Mark O'Connor, 'Clearly the Coalition knows its policyis not what the electorate wants.'Polls show that the electorate has made up its mind. Only 2% or 3% ofvoters want immigration increased; and they are outnumbered, some 30 toone, by the 65% or 70% who want it reduced. Neither ethnic Australians norAborigines support higher immigration. Most Australians supportmulticulturalism, yet want an immediate moratorium on immigration.'My book shows that in 1994-95 (under Labor) our net migration gain (ABSfigures) was 80,100 persons. Last year it was 83,700. Despite this, theCoalition has tried to give the impression of reducing immigration. Somecritics have even accused the government of "racism" for "reducingimmigration". This is false.'The book is available throough bookshops at $16.95, orby cheque or money order from Duffy & Snellgrove for $19.95 (includes p&p) atPO Box 177Potts Point NSW 1335fx 2 9386 1530dands at magna.com.au � ------------------ � GWB � � � Scott Balson Pauline Hanson's One Nation web master From blancw at cnw.com Sun Oct 4 11:05:23 1998 From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 02:05:23 +0800 Subject: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810050447.XAA01383@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <000601bdf02f$a5f26fa0$7e8195cf@blanc> Jim Choate retorted to my statement: :> They never have to worry about who has more or less, who is better or worse, :> or who knows better than anyone what is best for everyone. It's all been :> pre-established and exists incontrovertibly in their national consumer database. : : It would be nice if you said something other than "I disagree". It would : really be nice if you cold describe specific examples and hypothesis, but : that obviously is asking too much. ............................................................................ Why, where do you see any "I disagree" statement? And really, I don't mind providing specific examples and hypotheses - can you give me an idea where I might look for these? .. Blanc From blancw at cnw.com Sun Oct 4 11:18:56 1998 From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 02:18:56 +0800 Subject: Another question about free-markets... In-Reply-To: <199810050453.XAA01444@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <000801bdf031$9232abe0$7e8195cf@blanc> >From Jim Choate: : Now in a free-market, by definition, there is no law. What then is the : responsibility of businesses other than the pure unadulterated pursuit of : profit? If this includes lying, denying consumers information, etc. what : harm is done, they have fulfilled their responsibility to their shareholders : (potentialy quite lucratively) and broken no law. Within this environment it : follows that a primary strategy for such executives is the elimination of : *all* competition. And since there is no law other than the measure of profit : all can be justified. ................................................................................ There might be no Law. But there would still be Reality - and for some people, this is *much* harder to deal with. If customers sit around like lumps on a log depending upon the kindness of strangers, well they're not doing themselves any favors. But such a person is not a customer. They are an invalid (or will be, eventually). In a free-market economy, everybody - not only corporations, not only customers - have to be rational about what they're doing. Everybody has to "be on their toes", alert to what truly is in their interest, and prevent themselves from accepting, from supporting, self-defeating offers from Trojans bearing spam. You learn or you die, just like in the movies. .. Blanc From mgering at ecosystems.net Sun Oct 4 11:29:51 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 02:29:51 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A18@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com> Jim Choate wrote: > Explain further, from your description of the differences there > are no fundamental mentionings or views of intellectual property. > As a matter of fact the specific role of the individual is never > even mentioned in either definition. Intellectual property is fundamentally unenforceable in an anarchic state (you have no govt), at least in the manner we have now, whereas a Laissez Faire state could enforce it (you have limited govt). That says nothing about whether IP should exist in current form or at all, simply that it *could* exist under LF. I don't support the current path IP law is headed, but I support the underlying basis for intellectual property rights, as do most LF advocates. There are many different takes on anarchism, from those that include coercion as a market (and marketable) element to those where it is prohibited, but without the state (rational anarchy). Therefore it is difficult to discriminate the differences other than limited government versus no government. > So people don't have a right to self-defence? I agree > consensual crimes are not crimes. No, you certainly have a right to self-defense. >> "What, then, is law? It is the collective organization of the individual >> right to lawful defense." > Is it? Is it? No. Should it be? Yes. > Or is it simply another sort of coercion to cooperate with the > collective? Yes. "Nowhere has the coercive and parasitic nature of the State been more clearly limned than by the great late nineteenth-century German sociologist, Franz Oppenheimer. Oppenheimer pointed out that there are two and only two mutually exclusive means for man to obtain wealth. One, the method of production and voluntary exchange, the method of the free market, Oppenheimer termed the 'economic means'; the other, the method of robbery by the use of violence, he called the 'political means.' The political means is clearly parasitic, for it requires previous production for the exploiters to confiscate, and it subtracts from rather than adding to the total production in society. Oppenheimer then proceeds to define the State as the 'organization of the political means' -the systematization of the predatory process over a given territorial area." -- Murray Rothbard on Franz Oppenheimer's _Der Staat_ > I'm interesting to see how you reconcile the belief nobody > has a right to use force yet has a right to defend their > life. Abolition of *coercive* force. Defensive force I promote. >>"For what are our faculties but the extension of our >>individuality? And what is property but an extension >>of our faculties?" > By facluty I assume you mean our emotional and psychological > makeup coupled with our sensory record of them. > > I'd say that such issues are not a facet of individualism but > rather a characteristic of life itself. That was a quote from Frederick Bastiat, not me. Faculty is a broad term, your cognitive faculty is physiological, but your rational faculty (your mind) is really the essence of individuality. You are more correct, your individuality is derived from your faculty, your faculty is derived from the nature of man. > No it doesn't. You must first prove that a group of > individuals have some right that as individuals they don't have. Absolutely not and no they don't. What part did you miss? A group is simply a collection of individuals, therefore holds no more rights nor less rights than any single member, nor does any member sacrifice any rights by participating in a group. > For one thing, even in your definition, rights are a > fundamental aspect of birth as an individual. Rights are based on the nature of reality (survival). "In order to sustain its life, every living species has to follow a certain course of action required by its nature. The action required to sustain human life is primarily intellectual: everything man needs has to be discovered by his mind and produced by his effort. Production is the application of reason to the problem of survival... Since knowledge, thinking, and rational action are properties of the individual, since the choice to exercise his rational faculty or not depends on the individual, man's survival requires that those who think be free of the interference of those who don't. Since men are neither omniscient nor infallible, they must be free to agree or disagree, to cooperate or pursue their own independent course, each according to his own rational judgement. Freedom is the fundamental requirement of man's mind... The social recognition of man's rational nature--of the connection between his survival and his use of reason--is the concept of *individual rights*. ..."rights" are a moral principle defining and sanctioning a man's freedom of action in a social context... ...man has to work and produce in order to support his life. He has to support his life by his own effort and by the guidance of his own mind. If he cannot dispose of the product of his effort, he cannot dispose of his effort; if he cannot dispose of his effort, he cannot dispose of his life. Without property rights, no other rights can be practiced." -- Ayn Rand Matt From positzzzsu at yahoo.com Mon Oct 5 03:12:01 1998 From: positzzzsu at yahoo.com (positzzzsu at yahoo.com) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 03:12:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: 725+ Search Engines Message-ID: <199810051009.SAA29107@public.> !!!LOWEST PRICE EVER!!!!! REGULAR $89......ONE WEEK ONLY...$38 we9 WE WILL SUBMIT YOUR WEBSITE OR HOMEPAGE TO 725+ SEARCH ENGINES AND PROVIDE YOU WITH A REPORT SHOWING ALL SUCCESSFUL SUBMISSIONS!! WORRY FREE INTERNET TRANSACTION---WE WILL SUBMIT YOUR SITE AND E-MAIL YOUR REPORT WITHIN 48 HOURS OF RECEIPT OF YOUR FAXED CHECK....WE WON'T EVEN DEPOSIT IT UNTIL YOUR SUBMISSION IS COMPLETE...IF WE DON'T DO AS WE SAY, YOU CAN ALWAYS STOP PAYMENT ON CHECK....NOW WE HAVE TO TRUST YOU, AS WE WILL HAVE COMPLETED THE WORK BEFORE YOUR BANK HAS EVEN HONERED YOUR CHECK!!!! RESERVE YOUR SPOT NOW!!! DO NOT RESERVE YOUR SPOT VIA E-MAIL, MUST BE FAX!!! YOU CAN FAX US A CHECK TO RESERVE YOUR SPOT AND WE WILL IMPORT IT INTO OUR CHECK PROCESSING SOFTWARE, NO NEED TO MAIL IT. MAKE IT OUT TO K.L. COMPANY AND FAX TO 714 768-3650 WITH THE FOLLOWING INFO YOUR NAME: COMPANY NAME: URL OF SITE: http:// e-mail Address: Title of site(up to 25 words) Description of site(up to 50 words): Keywords(up to 6) Phone# QUESTIONS? ALL ORDERS WILL BE SUBMITTED WITHIN 48 HOURS.... we9 From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Sun Oct 4 12:46:05 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 03:46:05 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810050201.VAA01105@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199810050741.IAA11755@server.eternity.org> Jim Choate writes: > > If your aim is to maximise crypto deployment, use BSD or some other > > relatively free distribution license other than GNU, so that we can > > more rapidly write and deploy crypto software to undermine the power > > of the state. > > With the proviso that the original author looses all access to profits from > that code, effectively doing the R&D for untold numbers of companies without > compensation or even recognition (they can claim it's all theirs at that > point because they don't have to release the source). Understanding dawns... See, perhaps for you, personally, profit maximisation for yourself is more interesting than crypto deployment. But as I said in the section quoted above "If your aim is to maximise crypto deployment", use BSD. ie. Cypherpunks may choose to sacrifice profit, or recognition for in the interests of deployment. Tho' actually even these assumptions you are making are not always correct: for example Eric Young does not charge for his software, Eric gets lots of recognition (partly because his license asks for this -- "this software includes work by Eric Young" requirement); Eric I dare say has as much consultancy work offered to him to work on developing free code as he has hours for. I ended up doing some paid crypto development work on SSLeay (the resulting additions were also BSD licensed), and the person asking me to do this commented that they had asked Eric, but he had too much work. So your theory doesn't work in this case: Eric is getting to make money, get recognition, and maximise deployment. Adam From stevem at tightrope.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 4 13:05:22 1998 From: stevem at tightrope.demon.co.uk (Steve Mynott) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 04:05:22 +0800 Subject: Another question about free-markets... In-Reply-To: <199810050453.XAA01444@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <19981005100325.A6527@tightrope.demon.co.uk> On Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 11:53:28PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > Now in a free-market, by definition, there is no law. What then is the no in a free market there is no state there are laws based on natural rights -- pgp 1024/D9C69DF9 1997/10/14 steve mynott the chief value of money lies in the fact that one lives in a world in which it is overestimated. -- h. l. mencken From howree at cable.navy.mil Sun Oct 4 13:08:52 1998 From: howree at cable.navy.mil (Reeza!) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 04:08:52 +0800 Subject: In-Reply-To: <199810042112.XAA11806@replay.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981005190213.00845510@205.83.192.13> At 11:12 PM 10/4/98 +0200, Anonymous wrote: >At 12:59 PM 10/3/98 -0400, Michael Motyka wrote: >>> There is a desert which is 1000 miles across. There is a camel who can >carry >>> 1000 bananas maximum. The camel eats 1 banana per mile travelled. The camel >>> has a total of 3000 bananas to begin with. What is the maximum number of >>> bananas that the camel can get across to the other side uneaten? >> >>My camels don't understand/can't eat fractional bananas. > >Why are bananas quantized in the presense of camels? Is this >a quantum-computing thing? > Are we stipulating that the camel will travel in a straight line? Or will it meander a bit, following the path of least resistanct through the dunes? Reeza! "I'm desperately trying to figure out why kamikaze pilots wore helmets." - Dave Edison From rah at shipwright.com Sun Oct 4 13:16:03 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 04:16:03 +0800 Subject: US Secret Service checking laptops at airports Message-ID: Has anyone else had this happen to them? I'd love to have two independent corroborations of this, instead of hearing it third-hand... Cheers, Bob Hettinga --- begin forwarded text From: "Sidney Markowitz" To: Subject: US Secret Service checking laptops at airports Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 18:26:52 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-cryptography at c2.net A friend of mine recently traveled from one of the Washington DC area airports to Ireland and reports that US Secret Service agents checked her laptop for the domestic 128-bit crypto versions of Netscape Navigator and Microsoft Internet Explorer at the metal detector station. She said she saw about six other people who were checked as she was going through. As is now common, anyone carrying a laptop computer was asked to boot it up, presumably to demonstrate that if the case hid a bomb at least it was programmable with a reasonable looking user interface. But in her instance, people who identified themselves as Secret Service agents had her start up her web browser so they could check the encryption level, and made her uninstall her 128-bit Navigator. It didn't seem to matter to them that there are exemptions for devices that are for personal use as long as they are kept with the person while out of the country, or that she is an international banker who was going to conduct business with an overseas office. They didn't bother to determine whether she had a copy of the Navigator install file in a backup directory and could simply reinstall on the airplane. And of course it made no difference that she was going to Ireland where she picked up a locally produced 128-bit crypto plugin for Navigator that she says works just as well if not better than the version from Netscape. (I don't know if her "plugin" is simply one of the scripts that enable the Netscape strong crypto in the export version.) -- Sidney Markowitz --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From mix at anon.lcs.mit.edu Sun Oct 4 13:39:13 1998 From: mix at anon.lcs.mit.edu (lcs Mixmaster Remailer) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 04:39:13 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <19981005094001.10355.qmail@nym.alias.net> Matthew James Gering wrote: > > Jim Choate wrote: > > I'd say the obvious one, the Unix code tree is more stable > > than the MS tree. > > Sure, but does that mean the MS platform was less suitable than Unix, or > their MS platform programmers were inferior to their Unix counterparts. > I believe Netscape outsourced the Unix development, at least initially. > I would blame insufficient SQA at Netscape, and from what I've heard > that claim is justified. > > Matt My impression is that the instability described is due to fragmentation of the virtual memory space, which happens faster on NT than Unix because of the relative immaturity of NT memory management. The side comment about Mac's being even worse would support this hypothesis (as Mac memory management is a joke). The Netscape SQA theory doesn't explain why other products also become less reliable on NT (and worse again on 95). From blancw at cnw.com Sun Oct 4 13:40:44 1998 From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 04:40:44 +0800 Subject: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd) Message-ID: <000c01bdf045$4c5b3f60$7e8195cf@blanc> >From Jim Choate: : The bottem line as to why free-market economies don't work is that it isn't : in the producers best interest to have a educated consumer. They might buy : somebody elses product or start their own company. Both of those are bad for : profits. : : Free-market mavens forget that producers are just as greedy and corrupt as : everyone else, there is no fair competition in an unregulated market given : the pshychological make up of human beings. ................................................................................ ........ Free market economices don't "work", simply because they are run by humans, who regularly suffer psychological breakdowns, envy, and mistakes of judgement, not to mention disreputable marketing departments. Regulated economies, however, are run by government drones, and are therefore perfect vehicles which, with unfailing success, make all of their captive customers happy. Everyone knows this, as we witness the apparent success of all those regulated economies overseas which outshine the U.S. by three (maybe four) orders of magnitude. No one over there envies the U.S. productivity and standard of living, and they never are moved to leave and come live over here, to give up the benefits which extreme regulation confers upon them, in place of the (admittedly mixed) free-market fiasco which operates over here, where all things are uncertain and frighteningly unpredictable. In fact, many people become so disgusted with the monopolies and disfunctional liberty which exists here, that they regularly expatriate to go live in places like Sweden, Germany, even Canada, where they have the peace of mind and assurance that State coercion will provide for their every need - in a most efficient, timely, prompt, and user-friendly manner. They never have to worry about who has more or less, who is better or worse, or who knows better than anyone what is best for everyone. It's all been pre-established and exists incontrovertibly in their national consumer database. .. Blanc From blancw at cnw.com Sun Oct 4 13:49:00 1998 From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 04:49:00 +0800 Subject: Another question about free-markets.. Message-ID: <000e01bdf046$7b509ee0$7e8195cf@blanc> >From Jim Choate: : Now in a free-market, by definition, there is no law. What then is the : responsibility of businesses other than the pure unadulterated pursuit of : profit? If this includes lying, denying consumers information, etc. what : harm is done, they have fulfilled their responsibility to their shareholders : (potentialy quite lucratively) and broken no law. Within this environment it : follows that a primary strategy for such executives is the elimination of : *all* competition. And since there is no law other than the measure of profit : all can be justified. ................................................................................ There might be no Law. But there would still be Reality - and for some people, this is *much* harder to deal with. If customers sit around like lumps on a log depending upon the kindness of strangers, well they're not doing themselves any favors. But such a person is not a customer. They are an invalid (or will be, eventually). In a free-market economy, everybody - not only corporations, not only customers - have to be rational about what they're doing. Everybody has to "be on their toes", alert to what truly is in their interest, and prevent themselves from accepting, from supporting, self-defeating offers from Trojans bearing spam. You learn or you die, just like in the movies. .. Blanc From rick at campbellcentral.org Sun Oct 4 15:06:05 1998 From: rick at campbellcentral.org (Rick Campbell) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 06:06:05 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) In-Reply-To: <199809301621.KAA09089@wijiji.santafe.edu> Message-ID: <199810051105.HAA13894@germs.dyn.ml.org> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:21:42 -0600 From: Richard Stallman It isn't surprising that people who want to write non-free software are disappointed that the GNU project won't help them. What is amazing is that they feel this is unfair. They have no intention of letting me use their source code in my programs--so why should they be entitled to use my source code in their programs? These people seem to think that their selfishness entitles them to special treatment. This is faulty logic. I may wish to write some code for free, that is, have the intention of letting you use my source code in your programs, and to write other code for profit. If I want to write something for free, I'd like it to be free for any purpose, including commercial purposes, thus the GPL is inappropriate. I would vastly prefer that people simply place their code in the public domain explicitly. Rick -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: pgp00000.pgp Type: application/octet-stream Size: 346 bytes Desc: "PGP signature" URL: From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Sun Oct 4 16:08:42 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 07:08:42 +0800 Subject: Another question about free-markets... (fwd) Message-ID: <199810051212.HAA02813@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 10:03:25 +0100 > From: Steve Mynott > Subject: Re: Another question about free-markets... > On Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 11:53:28PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > > > Now in a free-market, by definition, there is no law. What then is the > > no in a free market there is no state > > there are laws based on natural rights Ok, who writes the laws? Who enforces the laws? Who decides what is natural? Remember, we have *NO* participants in a free market other than the producer and the consumer. Two, and *only* two, parties are involved. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Sun Oct 4 16:10:27 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 07:10:27 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <199810051214.HAA02867@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: Matthew James Gering > Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) > Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 00:29:33 -0700 > state (you have no govt), at least in the manner we have now, whereas a > Laissez Faire state could enforce it (you have limited govt). That says > nothing about whether IP should exist in current form or at all, simply > that it *could* exist under LF. [other stuff deleted] Ok, so you're talking out of both sides of your mouth then. On one hand you speak of a free-market (vis-a-vis Laissez Faire) and then in the same breath, with not even a blink of an eye, you speak of limited government. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Sorry. This is gibberish. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Sun Oct 4 16:11:48 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 07:11:48 +0800 Subject: Another question about free-markets... (fwd) Message-ID: <199810051216.HAA02918@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: Matthew James Gering > Subject: RE: Another question about free-markets... > Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 23:34:09 -0700 > > Now in a free-market, by definition, there is no law. > > A free market is not the absence of law (that is anarchy), a free market > is the absence of government intervention in trade and commerce. And how does government intervene and interfere? By making law. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Sun Oct 4 16:25:38 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 07:25:38 +0800 Subject: Capitalism and Monopolies (was RE: GPL & commercial software, the (fwd) Message-ID: <199810051230.HAA02994@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: Matthew James Gering > To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" > Subject: Capitalism and Monopolies (was RE: GPL & commercial software, the > critical distinction) > Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 23:01:16 -0700 > Jim Choate wrote: > > Only after the early 1890's when the situation got so bad > > they had to do something. Prior to that there was no federal > > intervention in railroad operations per se > > Completely false. Not totaly. > Traffic to/from the West coast did not warrant the > capital investment in transcontinental railway, so the government make > *exclusive* lands grants to specific railroads to extend the railways to > the West coast (100M acres between 1863-7) . Those subsidies created the > monopolies, the source of coercive power over Western farmers. Protest > against this arbitrary power was blamed on the market instead of the > government subsidies, and resulted in the Interstate Commerce Act of > 1887, and the Sherman Act of 1890. Only *after* it was clear that these companies could not do it themselves because of a lack of sufficient traffic to support the business. I must congratulate you. You're the first person in a long while who actualy took the time to develop an argument based on *fact*. Well done. > I should have stated government "distortions" instead of "regulation." > That includes subsidies. Even better, a distinction between 'law' and a 'grant'!.... > The placement (ownership) of these rights, their value, restrictions and > enforcement are the result of a free market? No, government > intervention. Actualy no, try buying a piece of land and enforcing the title *without* registering it at the country seat or its likes. > Did anyone ever state monopolies result from federal regulations? > Government distortion/intervention, that can come at any level. Acts of > force or coercion can create a monopolistic situation, free trade > cannot. Absolutely it can because it actualy allows a freer hand in developing strategies to decrease the market potential of ones competition. There is *nothing* in free-market definitions or descriptions which will prevent gross abuse of the consumer by the manufacturer. Remember in a free-market there is the requirement for 'fair competition' which is contrary to the very theory of business operation, which is to maximize profit and reduce competition. Now if we lived on Vulcan and we were all logical Vulcans it might work, unfortunately we're not and human beings will specificaly go after their competition, which without some sort of regulation being impossed leads to obvious results; initialy a very fluid and dynamic market that settles down with the survival of the fitest getting bigger and bigger. As these companies get big enough they can no longer react as quickly as they once did (intertia of strategy among other things). At some point it becomes easier to cooperate than to continue to fight. That cooperation leads to a melding and promotes even more monopolization. > So what is the discriminating factor(s) distinguishing industries that > can and cannot be monopolized? Saturation of the consumer market, high start-up costs in either infrastructure or intellectual resources, and others. I posted a list of some characteristics to the list a while back. You can look for it. If I get time I'll post it to the list again. > Don't forget capital markets; Are you speaking of capital markets in the sense of fluid and available funding or of the existance of businesses that produce the capital assetts needed by other businesses (eg creating rail-cars for rail-roads)? a free fluid capital market can and will > support a smaller competitor if potential long term profits will support > it. You can't pay your employees today with tomorrow profit. This isn't a Popeye's hamburger vendor... There is another question I'd like to pose. In a free-market economy there are only two participants, the consumer and the producer, what if anything in the definition prevents one or the other from employing an agent in their stead to 'negotiate' with the other. Does this by definition introduce a third party or is it a permissible extension of the two-party system? ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From d96racon at dtek.chalmers.se Sun Oct 4 16:28:54 1998 From: d96racon at dtek.chalmers.se (Raccoon) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 07:28:54 +0800 Subject: In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981005190213.00845510@205.83.192.13> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Oct 1998, Reeza! wrote: > At 11:12 PM 10/4/98 +0200, Anonymous wrote: > >At 12:59 PM 10/3/98 -0400, Michael Motyka wrote: > >>> There is a desert which is 1000 miles across. There is a camel who can > >carry > >>> 1000 bananas maximum. The camel eats 1 banana per mile travelled. The > camel > >>> has a total of 3000 bananas to begin with. What is the maximum number of > >>> bananas that the camel can get across to the other side uneaten? > > Are we stipulating that the camel will travel in a straight line? > Or will it meander a bit, following the path of least resistanct through > the dunes? Since we are looking for the best possible result (=the most bananans moved to the other side), we must assume that the path of least resistance equals a straight line. This may be improbable, but it is not impossible! Remember that this is maths, and that we're looking for the best possible limit. // RACCOON /\/```\ /"""\ | Web: http://www.dtek.chalmers.se/~d96racon ' ^\_/^ \ * ; | e-mail: d96racon at dtek.chalmers.se `(._ (.) \ \ | adress: Motg. 362 - 91 <> `.___/ / | 412 80 GBG `---',--< | `=' From mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de Sun Oct 4 16:31:05 1998 From: mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de (Mok-Kong Shen) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 07:31:05 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) In-Reply-To: <199810051105.HAA13894@germs.dyn.ml.org> Message-ID: <3618CA3C.D22851F9@stud.uni-muenchen.de> Rick Campbell wrote: > I would vastly prefer that people simply place their code in the > public domain explicitly. I think it all depends upon the free will of the authors of the codes to determine under exactly what conditions other people may share their intellectual properties without paying money. The one may impose some non-monetary conditions in the hope of achieving some non-monetary effects in exchange of the work that has been done, while the other impose no conditions at all. There can be no norm in that. After all, it is their codes and the potential users of the codes may also have different views on that without unanimity. M. K. Shen From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Sun Oct 4 16:33:54 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 07:33:54 +0800 Subject: Another question about free-markets... (fwd) Message-ID: <199810051237.HAA03149@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 22:58:05 -0700 > From: "James A. Donald" > Subject: Re: Another question about free-markets... > > If this includes lying, denying consumers information, etc. > > what harm is done, they have fulfilled their responsibility > > to their shareholders (potentialy quite lucratively)=20 > > While there is a sucker born every minute, the strategy you > describe is for the most part unlikely to be profitable. Then you should begin to check your daily news, example after example is presented. (currently illegal) cell phone cloning, excessive rate levels, sub-standard construction practices, etc. People by their very nature understand and impliment the prisoners delima maximum pay-off strategy. Not only can it happen it deos. Given that such abuse is possible in a regulated market there is no reason not to deduce it will happen in a free market economy as well. If it happens the business enjoys an increased profit if for no other reason than their costs are reduced. Since there is no regulation or other oversight the consumer will be denied this information preventing fair competition. Since a companies strategic leaders have no duty other than maximizing profit they will impliment such strategies. Hence the free-market reduces to an opportunistic anarchy. This leads to one and only one conclusion, in a free-market there is no such thing as 'fair trade' without a third party being involved. This runs contrary to the definition of a free market on two counts (at least) and therefore the free market theory (as applied to human business, not Vulcan) is a circular argument based on faulty principles and a lack of understanding of human psychology (ie assumptions such as rational purchases). ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From mhahn at tcbtech.com Sun Oct 4 17:10:07 1998 From: mhahn at tcbtech.com (Mark Hahn) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 08:10:07 +0800 Subject: In-Reply-To: <199810050630.IAA21291@replay.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19981005085903.009519b0@mail.aosi.com> The base problem is interesting and I think ted would like it. I don't think smoking bananas will make is any easier to solve the problem. -MpH At 08:30 AM 10/5/98 +0200, Anonymous wrote: >> At 12:59 PM 10/3/98 -0400, Michael Motyka wrote: >> >> There is a desert which is 1000 miles across. There is a camel who can carry >> >> 1000 bananas maximum. The camel eats 1 banana per mile travelled. The camel >> >> has a total of 3000 bananas to begin with. What is the maximum number of >> >> bananas that the camel can get across to the other side uneaten? >> > >> >My camels don't understand/can't eat fractional bananas. >> >> Why are bananas quantized in the presense of camels? Is this >> a quantum-computing thing? >> >Can the camel increase his miles/banana ratio if he dries out the >peels and smokes them?? > > -------- Mark P. Hahn Work: 212-278-5861 mhahn at tcbtech.com Home: 609-275-1834 TCB Technologies, Inc (mhahn at tcbtech.com) Consultant to: The SoGen Funds 1221 Avenue of the Americas, NY NY From stevem at tightrope.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 4 17:22:04 1998 From: stevem at tightrope.demon.co.uk (Steve Mynott) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 08:22:04 +0800 Subject: Another question about free-markets... (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810051212.HAA02813@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <19981005141913.A13659@tightrope.demon.co.uk> On Mon, Oct 05, 1998 at 07:12:55AM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > > > From: Steve Mynott > > > On Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 11:53:28PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > > > > > Now in a free-market, by definition, there is no law. What then is the > > > > no in a free market there is no state > > > > there are laws based on natural rights > > Ok, who writes the laws? Who enforces the laws? Who decides what is natural? whoever in a market by the division of labour finds it profitable will write and enforce the laws see David Friedman's http://www.best.com/~ddfr/Libertarian/Machinery_of_Freedom/MofF_Chapter_29.html for an explanation of how private courts and police could work "Natural Law theory rests on the insight... that each entity has distinct and specific properties, a distinct "nature", which can be investigated by man's reason" -- Murray N. Rothbard > Remember, we have *NO* participants in a free market other than the producer > and the consumer. Two, and *only* two, parties are involved. thats how economic thinking starts, or rather should start, and then the economy is an array of these individual transactions.. police and courts provide a "middle man" function, so you would need three participants -- pgp 1024/D9C69DF9 1997/10/14 steve mynott the first duty of a revolutionary is to get away with it. -- abbie hoffman From ptrei at securitydynamics.com Sun Oct 4 17:50:54 1998 From: ptrei at securitydynamics.com (Trei, Peter) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 08:50:54 +0800 Subject: FW: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd) Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Blanc [SMTP:blancw at cnw.com] > Sent: Monday, October 05, 1998 12:10 AM > To: 'Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer' > Subject: RE: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd) > [...] > > Free market economices don't "work", simply because they are run by > humans, who regularly suffer > psychological breakdowns, envy, and mistakes of judgement, not to mention > disreputable marketing > departments. Regulated economies, however, are run by government drones, > and are therefore perfect > vehicles which, with unfailing success, make all of their captive > customers happy. > [four paragraphs of well written irony removed] For those interested in a thoughtful (though slightly one sided) look at this issue, I strongly reccomend PJ O'Rourke's new book 'Eat the Rich'. He examines several locations (US, Sweden, Albania, Cuba, Russia, Hong Kong, Shanghai) in an attempt to figure out why (economically) "some places suck and others don't" His bottom line is that the rule of law (especially contract law) is critical, as well as democratic government. He's much more interested in on-the-ground economic experience than in government figures, and is the only economics writer who can make me laugh out loud. He does have his blind spots - I would have liked to see what he makes of Singapore. Peter Trei [Excuse the lousy formatting - I'm using a Microsoft product] From martinusl at hotmail.com Sun Oct 4 17:57:13 1998 From: martinusl at hotmail.com (Martinus Luther) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 08:57:13 +0800 Subject: importance of motivation Message-ID: <19981005135608.2064.qmail@hotmail.com> >From Tim May: > Any trendy new diagnosis always gets some recruits...dyslexia, ADD >(*), the abuse excuse, etc. (* Like any trendy thing, it gets renamed > to keep its panache. ADD has been renamed to something with four > letters, which I now forget (must be ADD).) And it is worse than that, they're scum, Tim. They claim (in last months SciAm) that 5% of kids have ADHD (some sources have it at 15%). This isn't a disease, this is one end of the normal variation in behaviour. It is as if you diagnosed an adult male height of less than 5 foot 4 inches as "dwarf" and prescribed growth hormone. Or as if you operated on any woman over 5 foot 10 to shorten her legs. http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/adhd.htm says 3 to 4 times as many boys as girls have it. So they are saying that ADHD affects 15 to 60 percent of all boys! This isn't one end of the normal range of behaviour, this is just plain normal. The psycho-babble establishment is proposing drugging 5 to 15 percent of the population to alter their behaviour. If this "diagnosis" had been around when I was a kid they would have drugged me. I found a 14 point checklist for ADHD on the web at: http://www.docnet.org.uk/autopage/messages/23.html In the last 48 hours my daughter has shown 11 of these. And I've shown 14. This is just normal life they are talking about. This is the misuse of psychiatric medicine for political control, as much as anything that went on in Stalin's Russia. (the personal is political - if one young man behaves in a way unacceptable to their elders that is personal - if 5 million do it is political). I object, strongly, to some guy in a white coat saying the problem with my life is my brain and he wants me to take this little pill and then it will be alright. Which is not to say that some people don't have real problems for which Ritalin is a workaround. But 15%, 10% or even 5% isn't psychiatry it is politics. Large parts of our daily life is tedious, boring, of no direct relevance to anything we are interested in. Most kids in school are made to sit through boring lessons. Bloody hell! They made us do sport. Is anything more shitlike? Most adults at work make themselves do things they have no interest in other than for the money they might get out of it (which is where we cam in with all that discussion about research that shows that people perform less well on tasks done primarily for reward - Marx was right about alienation, you know) A healthy person *ought* to have trouble paying attention to some of the things they are asked to do. Maybe we will have better lives if we drug ourselves (Ritalin, Prozak, E, daytime television) to get through the shit of the day but let it be a decision adults make for themselves, not one imposed on children by parents or the psychatric eastablishment. I could do with a cup of tea... > We've had some nutballs and losers (luser spelling: loosers) on this > list. People who claim the reason they can't make a coherent > argument or hold a steady job is because of something some > psychobabbler told them was their excuse. It's weird how people do that. If a doctor gives something a long name is suddenly becomes alright. Some parents are ashamed that their kids can't read well. Put it in Greek and call it "Dyslexia" and all of a sudden it isn't something you do, or are, or don't do or aren't capable of - it becomes something you *have*, not really part of you, baggage, a burden that could one day be dropped, something that has been done to you, imposed on you, soemthing that is not your fault. Reality hasn't changed, just the words used to describe it, yet it is now less threatening. The germ theory of disease is stretched to the limit. Pasteur showed that some diseases are caused by microorganisms. Simple cause and effect. One baterial disease is caused by pone organism, another by another. That is deeply embedded in our thoughts. So now all disease, all misfortune, has to be given a name, put in a box and traced back to a simple cause. I'm not fat, I have an eating disorder. I'm not stupid, I have a learning disability. I'm not sad, or worried, or bored, or scared - I have depression or an anxiety disorder or an attention deficit disorder. Some societies attribute all misfortune to witchcraft - if your cow dies then someone, somewhere must have cursed you. We now attribute all misfortune to something outside ourselves, not part of us. It wasn't me, it was my syndrome. And its all part of the pressure put on familys by business. Conform, consume, keep quiet. Don't rock the boat. Turn up on time, wear our clothes, work our hours. No alcohol on the premises. Or at lunchtime. Take this here drugs test - we don't want dope fiends and hippies in our office. Stressed out? Bored? Overworked? Tense, anxious, nervous soul-ache? Nothing acts faster than Ritalin. Especially when cut with Prozac to prolong that cool, mellow feeling. Time off to look after the children? Not if you want the job to be open when you come back. Just give them a bite of our magic apple and they will be alright. What's that you say about drugs? No, these are Good Drugs. The men in the white coats say so. And what's more they are patentable and we own shares in Ciba Geigy, Lilly, Fison's and Hoffman La Roche. Good Drugs keep you working until we want to let you go. Good Drugs keep you consuming until you have no more money to pay us with. Good drugs keep you working for our profit. Good Drugs keep you from complaining, striking, joining a union, praying, helping, loving, singing, fighting back in any way whatsoever. Good Drugs keep you from realising that half your work goes into our pockets. Good Drugs keep you scared, scared of poverty, scared of being different, scared of standing out, scared of using your head to think any thoughts we don't want thank. Good Drugs keep you addicted to your job, your country, your government, your boss. The Best Drug is the mortgage. John the Ranter/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From howree at cable.navy.mil Sun Oct 4 18:06:50 1998 From: howree at cable.navy.mil (Reeza!) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 09:06:50 +0800 Subject: Another question about free-markets... In-Reply-To: <199810050453.XAA01444@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981006000836.0087fd40@205.83.192.13> At 11:53 PM 10/4/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote: >Milton Friedman won the Nobel price in 1976 in economics. One of the >questions he asked was: > >Do corporate executives, provided they stay within the law, have >responsibilities in their business activities other than to make as much >money for their stockholders as possible? > >His answer was 'no', they have no responsibility outside of those two >considerations (ie the law, stockholders expectations of profit). > >Now in a free-market, by definition, there is no law. What then is the >responsibility of businesses other than the pure unadulterated pursuit of >profit? If this includes lying, denying consumers information, etc. what >harm is done, they have fulfilled their responsibility to their shareholders >(potentialy quite lucratively) and broken no law. Within this environment it >follows that a primary strategy for such executives is the elimination of >*all* competition. And since there is no law other than the measure of profit >all can be justified. Just because he won a Nobel prize does not mean he was correct, it means those bestowing the prize on him agreed with him. business/economic right vs wrong is a different game from moral right vs wrong. for instance, suppose there was a great demand for analog watches with luminous dials. would it be right to flood the market with luminous dials that were also highly radioactive, because those isotopes were less expensive than luminous substances that were not radioactive? (this presupposes that no rules were broken AFA selling watches with radioactive luminous dials). are you saying that the proper business solution is to throw public safety to the wind, and never mind possible consequences of wrist cancer 10 or 20 years down the road? what would the companies bottom line be after the ravages of the eventual class action suit? Reeza! "I'm desperately trying to figure out why kamikaze pilots wore helmets." - Dave Edison From schneier at counterpane.com Sun Oct 4 18:40:04 1998 From: schneier at counterpane.com (Bruce Schneier) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 09:40:04 +0800 Subject: Review of TriStrata Public Information Message-ID: <199810051426.JAA18393@mixer.visi.com> Review of TriStrata Public Information 1 Introduction Over the past several months, a new company called TriStrata has been getting substantial press for a new "one-time pad" cryptography system. Most of these press reports took at face value the company's claims about their technology and product, and did not try to analyze whether or not they were true. Counterpane Systems believes it is important to dig under the hype and figure out what the real story is behind their technology. We reviewed the publicly available documentation on TriStrata, and found a system whose architecture is that of an early-1970s pre-public-key cryptography security system. Central servers, upon which the security of every message rests, must be kept absolutely secure; yet they run on Windows NT. These servers are all powerful, in that they can forge messages, rewrite audit logs, fake authentication, and lie about anything else in the system. Users cannot access their files unless they are connected to this server. TriStrata does not use a one-time pad at all, and none of the security proofs about a one-time pad apply to their system. Their reliance on this encryption technology forces them to use security protocols long abandoned by the rest of the security industry. Even their performance enhancements bely the fact that encryption is rarely the bottleneck in any communications system. Note: For a less-technical summary of this review, please see sections 4.0, 4.1, and 5.0. 2.0 The TriStrata System 2.1 Structure The TriStrata system uses a centralized server, called the TESS (TriStrata Enterprise Security Server). The documentation is not very clear, but document reference 3 suggests that each company would have its own TESS. Every encryption or decryption operation requires a "permit" from the TESS. To encrypt a file or message: 1. The user contacts the TESS over the network. This can be any type of network, such as the Internet or a local area network. 2. The user and the TESS authenticate each other using a proprietary protocol called Private Access Line (PAL). 3. The TESS sends a permit to the user machine, which is used to encrypt the file or message. The TESS also sends a "seal" to the user. This seal is only readable by the TESS. 4. The user simply stores the seal with the file (if it is encrypted locally), or sends the seal along with the encrypted message (if it is to be transmitted to another user). To decrypt a file or message: 1. The user retrieves the seal and sends the seal to the TESS (along with the authentication data from the PAL protocol). 2. The TESS opens the seal, and determines whether the user is allowed to decrypt the data. 3. If the user is allowed to decrypt the data, the TESS sends a decryption permit to the user. 4. The user's local machine uses this permit to decrypt the file or message. The TESS keeps full audit logs of all operations, and includes procedures that allow designated recovery agents within the company to recover the keys to any file. The system is claimed to provide identification (who is using the system), authentication (who sent a message), access control (restriction of access to authorized users), integrity (assurance message is unaltered), and non-repudiation (sender cannot deny having sent it). They have received an export license for their system. 2.2 Authentication The authentication method used to authenticate the user to the TESS and vice versa is a crucial part of the security architecture. The TriStrata documentation contains no further information than that this is handled by the Private Access Line protocol. 2.3 Encryption Algorithm The Random KeyStream (RKS) encryption algorithm used by TriStrata is hailed as "a new fundamental technology." It is claimed to be very fast, but the documentation only contains raw speeds, without documenting which platform these speeds were achieved on. The encryption technology is also claimed to be unconditionally secure. To quote the web site: "No matter how much mathematical analysis or computing power is applied to the cryptanalysis of RKS, there is simply no algorithm and no underlying pattern to break. As Herbert Yardley foresaw in 1931, cryptography as a profession is dead." 3.0 Our Comments 3.1 The Central Server Structure Cryptographic systems that use a central access control server are nothing new. The Kerberos protocol uses a central server for similar tasks. Using such a central server as the TESS has several advantages and disadvantages. The main advantages are: - There is a central place that administrates all the access rights. This makes various administrative tasks easier. - Revocation of access is automatically supported by the system. No separate revocation mechanism is necessary. - The central server can keep comprehensive auditing logs of security-related operations. The main disadvantages are: - The central server contains confidential information, namely the master keys that can decrypt any file. It is thus a very tempting target for attack. The central server must be very well protected. At the same time, the server must be reachable from across the network, and must be reliable, as nothing can work without a functioning server. The end result is a server that is expensive (due to all the requirements) and that still is an obvious point of attack. - The central server is a single point of failure. TriStrata uses a redundant server structure with fail-over, so that a second server takes over when the first fails. A fail-over structure protects against technical errors, but does not necessarily protect against denial-of-service attacks. The TESS is based on a "security hardened" version of Windows NT, an operating system that is not known for its resistance to malicious attacks. - The system is effectively a closed system. Only users who are registered at the server can partake in the system. It is not clear how two users that belong to different servers would communicate. The TriStrata documentation mentions electronic commerce extensively, but it does not discuss how two users at two different companies can use the TriStrata system to communicate with each other. - Since the server contains crucial confidential information, every company must run its own server. A failure of the server, such as a leak of the master keys from the server, can reveal all of the company's information. This is the kind of task that should not be outsourced. In contrast, the key server of a public-key-based system is much easier to outsource as it can be designed so as not to be critical for security. - The TriStrata solution does not allow a user that is off-line to access any encrypted files. A salesman that keeps his data encrypted on his portable computer cannot access the data without contacting the TESS. If he cannot get network access for some reason (e.g., on an airplane, mismatched phone plug, etc.), he cannot access his own files. The TriStrata solution is a return to a very old style of centralized key management. For some applications this is a good solution, but there are many situations in which a centralized server is not appropriate. For example, one function that a central server cannot do well is non-repudiation between adversarial parties (one of the critical functions in electronic commerce). The TESS system seems to provide non-repudiation through inspection of the logs of the TESS. But if a message is sent between two companies, which TESS do they use? The company that owns the TESS that is used can manipulate the logs in their own favor. The end result is that there is no watertight proof that the message was sent or received. In effect, this solution takes us back to the days before public-key cryptography. Since its invention in the late 1970s, the ideas of certificates, public key infrastructure, decentralized key management, separation of encryption and digital signature functions, etc., have all been implemented in response to insecurities in centralized systems. For example, public-key infrastructures use trusted third parties like the TESS, but in a public-key system, compromise of the trusted third party only allows an attacker to issue false certificates, not to decrypt and read messages. 3.2 Authentication We have no further information on the PAL protocol. The documentation does state that the communication with the TESS consists of a single message from the user to the TESS, and a single reply back. Elsewhere it says that the TESS is stateless, which makes it easy to do a fail-over should one TESS fail. It is not clear to the reviewers how the PAL protocol works, if we assume it consists of two messages and is stateless for the TESS. These two properties together would suggest that an attacker can replay requests to the TESS. If nothing else, this introduces fake entries in the audit log. Some of these attacks can be hindered by the use of local clocks, but every solution along these lines we have ever seen is always troubled by clock synchronization problems. We note that the PAL protocol is critical for the security of the overall system. If an attacker can impersonate another user, then he can request the proper permit from the TESS to decrypt a file, and will get access regardless of the security of the actual encryption algorithm. The PAL protocol deserves careful scrutiny before the TriStrata system is put to use. The most straightforward attack against the TriStrata system is to introduce some hostile code into the client's PC (for example, a virus or Trojan horse). This hostile code can then steal the necessary authentication information and send it back to the attacker. This type of attack is a generic attack against any security system, not just the TriStrata system, but it shows that the "provable security" is at best limited to a small part of the system and does not extend to the whole system. 3.3 Encryption To put it bluntly: the TriStrata system does not use the one-time pad system (Vernam cipher) for encryption. A true one-time pad uses a random key that is distributed through a separate secure channel. While a one-time pad is, in fact, theoretically unbreakable when used properly, the details of using it properly make it entirely unusable in any modern commercial or military setting. A true one-time pad gains its unbreakable security from the fact that the key is as long as the message. Since all keys are equally likely, and a particular ciphertext could represent any message, given a particular key, the ciphertext reveals nothing about the plaintext message without the correct key. These random keys must be entirely random; this usually requires generating them from some external random source (such as thermal noise or radioactive decay). And both the sender and the receiver must have this secret key, which must be exchanged in some fashion which the attacker cannot penetrate. The requirement that the keys be as long as the data to be exchanged and that the key needs to be transported via some secure mechanism makes the one-time pad system entirely impractical. In order to send a 1 MB message, the sender and receiver must exchange a 1 MB-long key. Then the sender could send the message and the receiver could use the key to decrypt it. The key would then have to be thrown away and never used again. If the sender wanted to exchange messages with a hundred people, he would have to pre-agree on different keys between each recipient. For a company with a thousand employees, this means that there are 499,500 different key sets, which need to be replenished any time they are exhausted by message exchange. Because the key has to be as long as the message, there is no way to use an established system to exchange more keys, since in order to securely send as 1 MB key a user needs 1 MB of additional pre-agreed key. (And if users can exchange these keys, why can't they just exchange the messages?) This means that all keys have to be exchanged via some other mechanism (such as a courier). This kind of system was used for the U.S.-Soviet teletype "hot line" and it is occasionally used for paper ciphers and spies, but that's it. There is no way in which a true one-time pad can be implemented over a computer network. From the information provided by TriStrata, we believe that the encryption method used is a keystream method where an algorithm generates a key stream which is then XORed with the plaintext to generate the ciphertext. This is known as a pseudo one-time pad, and is also called an OFB stream cipher. One of the modes of DES works in this manner, as does the RC4 encryption algorithm. This is not new technology. A pseudo one-time pad encryption algorithm can be secure, but claiming that it is secure because it is based on the one-time pad is ridiculous. The strength of the cipher algorithm depends on the method used to generate the key stream. The speed given for the encryption method is fairly fast, but without knowing what platform was used to achieve these speeds, no sensible comparison can be made. To give some comparison material: the leading candidates for the AES block cipher encryption standard can encrypt data in about 18 clock-cycles per byte on a Pentium II. A standard 350 MHz desktop machine thus achieves nearly 20 Mbytes per second. This compares to the TriStrata claimed speed of 36 Mbytes per second for a standard desktop machine. The TriStrata figures are faster, but only by a factor of two. This would be a nice speedup, but it does not present a fundamental breakthrough in speed. Reference 4 is a magazine article report that contains more information about the encryption algorithm. As with any magazine article, the accuracy of the information is hard to judge. Nevertheless, the information it provides fits well with the information we have from TriStrata. The TESS generates a single 1 Mbyte block of random data using a hardware random number generator. This block is distributed to all clients. (A second block is used for authentication, but we have no further information on the algorithm.) The encryption algorithm keeps several pointers into this random block and derives the random key stream from the data the pointers point to. This is a known technique, first used by Maurer in his randomized cipher [Reference 5]. The TriStrata documentation talks about a virtual keystream of over 10^30 bytes, which would correspond to 5 pointers into a 1 Mbyte block. This suggests an effective key size of at most 100 bits. On the other hand, the website also claims that it would take 3.5 x 10^33 years to defeat one TriStrata-encrypted message, which would suggest either a larger key space or a fundamental misunderstanding of the mathematical properties of Maurer's system. The random block is the same for all the clients. It has to be, as the client that does the decryption needs the same random block as the client that does the encryption (and sending 1 Mbyte blocks around in the permit is too slow). Therefore, we cannot view this random block as a secret. After all, a secret shared amongst thousands of users is not a secret any more. If we want a more conventional representation of the encryption algorithm, we can represent the random block as a randomly generated 20 by 8-bit S-box. We have no knowledge about the details of this encryption algorithm, but the most straightforward variants of this type are susceptible to a meet-in-the-middle attack on the pointer space. This could reduce the effective key size to as little as 60 bits. The journalist did a speed test of TriStrata's file encryption utility. On a 200 MHz Pentium Pro, 128 MB RAM and PCI Ultra-SCSI disk subsystem it encrypted a 58 MB file in 18 seconds. This corresponds to a speed of 3.2 Mbytes per second. Presumably this speed is limited by the speed of the disk I/O. On this platform a traditional encryption algorithm such as Blowfish can encrypt at 10 Mbytes per second; the super-fast RKS encryption is presumably faster than this. Although this test does not give us any real speed data, it does show that encryption speed is not the bottleneck in most situations. In this situation, the disk I/O is much slower than the cryptography, making the encryption speed irrelevant. 3.5 Proprietary Encryption Algorithms The nature of cryptography is such that there is no way to prove that a cipher is secure, since this amounts to proving a negative assertion: that there is no way to break it easily. Anyone, from the most unsophisticated amateur to the best cryptographer, can create an algorithm that he himself can't break. What is hard is creating an algorithm that no one else can break, even after years of analysis. And the only way to prove that is to subject an algorithm to years of analysis by the best cryptographers around. Because of this situation, the only recognized criterion for secure cryptographic systems is peer review: having other cryptographers examine a cipher and attack it. Even cryptographic organizations which operate in secret, such as the NSA, have an extensive internal peer review system. >From past experience we know that systems that are kept secret and presented as "provably secure," "unbreakable," "a new fundamental technology," or "one-time pad" are usually not very good at all. Those who say these things generally do not understand the current state-of-the-art of mathematical cryptography, and make fundamental mistakes in their system design. Encryption algorithms that are unpublished have a dismal record. The literature is littered with the corpses of encryption algorithms that were broken once they were published. Until TriStrata publishes its algorithm and it is open to peer review there is no professional reason to presume it is secure. 4.0 The Real Problem in Security Systems It is interesting to note that TriStrata gives a lot of attention to the encryption algorithm. From all the problems that security systems face at the moment, the encryption algorithm is probably the least important one. There are many good encryption algorithms available in the published literature that can be used for free. TriStrata chose to develop their own algorithm. Although this can be a lot of fun, it is a decision that is hard to justify, as new algorithms can only be considered secure after an ample time of peer review. Cryptographic systems are broken constantly, but the attacks are almost never against the algorithms. The really difficult problems in security systems are key distribution, management, reliability, robustness, etc. TriStrata uses the solution of having a central server, as necessitated by its choice of encryption technology. This solution is suitable in some situations, but there are many problems that cannot be handled by this approach. In fact, the problems associated with central servers and centralized key distribution have been driving the development of public-key--based systems for the last two decades. TriStrata, by implementing a Maurer-style randomized stream cipher and the centralized key management it requires, has taken the one piece of the cryptographic puzzle that we can solve--symmetric encryption--and made what they perceive to be security improvements. However, they did this at the expense of the really hard problems in cryptography...ones that their system does not seem to adequately solve. 4.1 Trust and Security Systems Whenever someone buys a commercial product, he is trusting that the manufacturer did a good job designing and building the product. This is especially important with security products. If someone buys a word processor and it does not perform as advertised (e.g., the print function does not work), he will eventually notice (he won't be able to print his documents). If someone buys an encryption product, it can function normally (encrypting and decrypting documents successfully), but that is no indication that it is secure. Security is completely separate from functionality, and no amount of beta testing can ever uncover a security flaw. In the commercial world, we rely on the public review process to evalute the security of systems. Internet security infrastructures, such as IPSec, PKIX, and SSL, have been discussed and debated for years. Versions have been proposed, security flaws have been found, fixes have been implemented, and so on. Cryptographic algorithms in these protocols are ones that have been around for years, and have had extensive cryptographic review by the best in the field. Even this is no guarantee of security--implementation flaws are found (and fixed) in the code that implements these protocols, but it establishes a certain degree of confidence. TriStrata has chosen to ignore all public standards in favor of their own proprietary technology, while at the same time refusing to make technical details of their technology public. In order to use their system, the purchaser must trust that their cryptographers are better than the collective wisdom of the world's academic cryptographers, that their protocol designers are better than everyone who has worked on the open Internet protocols over the last few years, that their implementers are better than everyone who has made and evaluated the public implementations of those protocols. The purchaser must trust that TriStrata's misuse of the academic terminology does not reflect a misunderstanding of that technology, and that their technology is so much better than what everyone else has agreed upon that it makes sense to make that leap of faith. In the end, a star-studded board of directors and upper management does not obviate the need for good science, open systems, and peer review. It's simply foolish to trust a system that has not been evaluated. 5.0 Conclusions A system like TriStrata's can be made to work within its limitations. It is certainly not the universal solution to the world's security problems. However, there is a huge amount of hype and very little substance to the documentation. Many of the statements made are incomplete, vague, or suggest facts which cannot be true. The cryptographic claims are wild and unsubstantiated. Parts are clearly written by someone who does not understand modern cryptography, and who is not well versed in the cryptographic literature. Certain areas of the documentation give the impression that they were written with the intent to deceive the reader, but ignorance is probably a better explanation. Based on past experience with systems that made similar unsupported security claims, we are very skeptical about the security of the TriStrata system. We reviewed the system as we have reconstructed it from various hints in the text, as well as conversations with people who have been involved with the system. Until TriStrata releases technical information about its product, it is not possible to give a complete evaluation of their technology. References: [1] TriStrata web site, http://www.tristrata.com, on Sept. 22nd, 1998. [2] Walter Hamscher, Alastair MacWillson, and Paul Turner, "Electronic Business Without Fear: The TriStrata Security Architecture," Price Waterhouse. [3] "Building a Secure Future with CTR Business Systems and TriStrata Security," leaflet. [4] Dan Backman, "TriStrata: A Giant Step In Enterprise Security," Network Computing Magazine, 15 September 1998. Online, http://www.nwc.com/915/915sp1.html [5] Ueli M. Maurer, "A Provably-Secure Strongly-Randomized Cipher," Advances in Cryptology -- Eurocrypt '90 Proceedings, Springer-Verlag, 1990, pp. 361--373. ********************************************************************** Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems Phone: 612-823-1098 101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN 55419 Fax: 612-823-1590 Free crypto newsletter. See: http://www.counterpane.com From brownrk1 at texaco.com Sun Oct 4 18:41:28 1998 From: brownrk1 at texaco.com (Brown, R Ken) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 09:41:28 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F8480@MSX11002> > James A. Donald wrote > > [oddly irrelevant stuff about Satan skipped] > > > A big company has no monetary advantage over a small company. > > > Suppose Firm A controls 90% of the market and firm B > > controls 10% of the market. Artificially low prices cost the > > big firm nine times as much as the small firm. Under > > capitalism, the small company can duke it out on equal > > terms with the big firm, and with great regularity, > > that is exactly what they do. > > Sometimes. And sometimes they don't. Sometimes half-a-dozen big boys just > gang up on the smallest. > > Anyway, your example ignores cross-subsidy whcih is the usal way to do > this. > > And bigger companies precisely *do* have a financial advantage over small > - they can borrow money at lower rates and they have more ways of hedging. > When they operate in more than one part of the world a certain amount of > hedging is built in. In general economies of scale aren't, but finance is > one area where they do work. > > There are more forms of competition than a price war Also if it comes to a > *legal* slugging match the total amount > > > >> Garbage (what we call rubbish over here) collection is > >> different again. It's not at all a nutural monopoly and > >> there is nothing stopping anyone offering to do it as a > >> business. But it is a natural for social ownership, > > > You mistake the political adventures of your local elite for > > universal laws. > > Just like you Americans do when you drivel on about guns in ways that most > other people either don't care about or find repulsive? > Anyway, I wasn't talking abou the elite but the majority. > > > In some parts of the world rubbish collection is private. > > Yes, I know that. In some parts of this coutnry also. Anywere genuinly > rural for a start. What's that got to do with what I said? > > > There is no "natural monopoly" that is not somewhere > > a private industry, and often it is a private industry in a > > place that is otherwise quite socialist. Public and private > > ownership reflect the accidents of politics and history more > > than they reflect the natural characteristics of the industry > > in dispute. > > I agree with this completely, but I don't think it invalidates anything we > said. You are confusing 3 quite different questions: > > - social ownership versus private ownership > - competition versus monopoly > - free trade versus protection > > Ken Brown > > From Richard.Bragg at ssa.co.uk Sun Oct 4 19:26:43 1998 From: Richard.Bragg at ssa.co.uk (Richard.Bragg at ssa.co.uk) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 10:26:43 +0800 Subject: the camel Message-ID: <80256694.0053C3EA.00@seunt002e.ssa.co.uk> Camels eat first and carry afterwards so stuff a thousand bananas down its neck and get it to carry 1000 across. The remaining 1000 are to be left to ferment to make a delicious drink for the camel handler who has just persuaded a camel to eat 1000 bananas. ___________________________________________________ The information contained in this electronic mail message is confidential. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and others authorised to receive it. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, copying, dissemination or disclosure of this information is strictly prohibited. ___________________________________________________ From jamesd at echeque.com Sun Oct 4 19:31:14 1998 From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 10:31:14 +0800 Subject: Another question about free-markets... (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810051212.HAA02813@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199810051530.IAA24397@proxy3.ba.best.com> >> From: Steve Mynott there >> are laws based on natural rights At 07:12 AM 10/5/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > Ok, who writes the laws? No one. > Who enforces the laws? Who decides what is natural? In the minarchist proposal, as explained by Bastiat, already quoted on this thread, http://www.jim.com/jamesd/bastiat.htm "the collective force", aka the minimal state. In the anarchist proposal, explained by Spooner in "Natural Law" http://www.jim.com/jamesd/spooner.htm, and myself in "Anarcho Capitalism, a short summary" http://www.jim.com/jamesd/anarcho-.htm, anyone and everyone decides. Attempts to enforce unnatural law are more likely to get one killed. Friedman in "A positive account of property rights" http://www.best.com/~ddfr/Academic/Property/Property.html explains why enforcing the law "Whats yours is yours, and what is mine is mine" is less likely to get you killed than attempting to enforce the law "Whats mine is mine, whats yours is up for grabs" --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG y5lZXNb9KdI6G/J/Mw0QVE3D0Xa+BCJ1nJ9JZrgy 4b6jnnkVkioQJ7SSLk7VTW3r694QFvcvfRB6H3dGp ----------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state. http://www.jim.com/jamesd/����� James A. Donald From perry at piermont.com Sun Oct 4 19:38:51 1998 From: perry at piermont.com (Perry E. Metzger) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 10:38:51 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) In-Reply-To: <199810051105.HAA13894@germs.dyn.ml.org> Message-ID: <199810051539.LAA22048@jekyll.piermont.com> My take on the licensing flame war: I live in both Richard Stallman's world (the Open Source community) and in the Cypherpunk crypto community. The two have different goals. RMS is mistaken about appropriate licensing for crypto code written by cypherpunks because he thinks the goals are the same, when they are not. The Open Source community seeks maximum spread of free software. The Cypherpunk community seeks maximum spread of the use of non-GAKed cryptography. Some members of the Cypherpunk community are happy to have source hoarders and such profit in any and all ways from the use of their code *IF* it will spread the use of cryptography in the world. They are willing to let anyone -- Microsoft, RMS, or anyone else -- use their work, even in ways that do not further the objectives of the Open Source community, provided it means more non-GAKed cryptography is in use by more people. The Open Source community obviously has different goals. It is seeking free software, not the wide spread of cryptography. RMS is mistaking his goals for those of the cypherpunk community. Their goals are not diametrically opposed, but they are not identical either, and so the sorts of licenses they may want to use for the software they create are not necessarily the same. EAY noted that he stopped distributing under GPL because *he*, the author, wanted more people to be stealing his code, thus spreading cryptography further. It wasn't a question of random people bitching that the GPL didn't let them write proprietary software -- it was THE AUTHOR OF THE CODE who wanted people to be able to write proprietary software, because he felt that the goal of spreading crypto was more important to him than the software freedom issue. I am in no way saying RMS should stop using the GPL, or attempting to say what sort of license is better for a particular author, but it should be recognised that there are people who are happy having their crypto routines stolen and incorporated into proprietary software -- who are, in fact, elated when this happens, because it means more people will be using cryptographic software -- and that they might not find the GPL to be ideal for their goal. Perry From schneier at counterpane.com Sun Oct 4 20:38:07 1998 From: schneier at counterpane.com (Bruce Schneier) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 11:38:07 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) In-Reply-To: <199810051105.HAA13894@germs.dyn.ml.org> Message-ID: <199810051636.LAA07155@mixer.visi.com> Clear and coherent summary, and accurate. Thanks. At 11:39 AM 10/5/98 -0400, Perry E. Metzger wrote: > >My take on the licensing flame war: > >I live in both Richard Stallman's world (the Open Source community) >and in the Cypherpunk crypto community. > >The two have different goals. RMS is mistaken about appropriate >licensing for crypto code written by cypherpunks because he thinks the >goals are the same, when they are not. > >The Open Source community seeks maximum spread of free software. >The Cypherpunk community seeks maximum spread of the use of non-GAKed >cryptography. > >Some members of the Cypherpunk community are happy to have source >hoarders and such profit in any and all ways from the use of their >code *IF* it will spread the use of cryptography in the world. They >are willing to let anyone -- Microsoft, RMS, or anyone else -- use >their work, even in ways that do not further the objectives of the >Open Source community, provided it means more non-GAKed cryptography >is in use by more people. > >The Open Source community obviously has different goals. It is seeking >free software, not the wide spread of cryptography. > >RMS is mistaking his goals for those of the cypherpunk >community. Their goals are not diametrically opposed, but they are not >identical either, and so the sorts of licenses they may want to use >for the software they create are not necessarily the same. > >EAY noted that he stopped distributing under GPL because *he*, the >author, wanted more people to be stealing his code, thus spreading >cryptography further. It wasn't a question of random people bitching >that the GPL didn't let them write proprietary software -- it was THE >AUTHOR OF THE CODE who wanted people to be able to write proprietary >software, because he felt that the goal of spreading crypto was more >important to him than the software freedom issue. > >I am in no way saying RMS should stop using the GPL, or attempting to >say what sort of license is better for a particular author, but it >should be recognised that there are people who are happy having their >crypto routines stolen and incorporated into proprietary software -- >who are, in fact, elated when this happens, because it means more >people will be using cryptographic software -- and that they might not >find the GPL to be ideal for their goal. > >Perry > ********************************************************************** Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems Phone: 612-823-1098 101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN 55419 Fax: 612-823-1590 Free crypto newsletter. See: http://www.counterpane.com From mhahn at tcbtech.com Sun Oct 4 20:40:30 1998 From: mhahn at tcbtech.com (Mark Hahn) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 11:40:30 +0800 Subject: importance of motivation In-Reply-To: <19981005135608.2064.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19981005123632.009c5740@mail.aosi.com> At 06:56 AM 10/5/98 PDT, Martinus Luther wrote: >using your head to think any thoughts we don't want thank. Good Drugs >keep you addicted to your job, your country, your government, your boss. >The Best Drug is the mortgage. If you want to condemn the whole damn system we call society, then the "Best Drug" is to have children. See if that doesn't change your perspective a bit. -MpH -------- Mark P. Hahn Work: 212-278-5861 mhahn at tcbtech.com Home: 609-275-1834 TCB Technologies, Inc (mhahn at tcbtech.com) Consultant to: The SoGen Funds 1221 Avenue of the Americas, NY NY From me at myplace.to Sun Oct 4 20:43:24 1998 From: me at myplace.to (me) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 11:43:24 +0800 Subject: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd) In-Reply-To: <000c01bdf045$4c5b3f60$7e8195cf@blanc> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19981005124212.00a094c0@mail.ewol.com> At 02:48 AM 10/5/98 -0700, Blanc wrote: > >They never have to worry about who has more or less, who is better or worse, or >who knows better than anyone what is best for everyone. It's all been >pre-established and exists incontrovertibly in their national consumer database. > .. >Blanc The above concept is embraced by a vast number of the planets population and illustrates the ability of rationality to control perception. ---------------------------- "That's entertainment." - Vlad the Impaler From mah248 at is9.nyu.edu Sun Oct 4 21:04:50 1998 From: mah248 at is9.nyu.edu (Michael Hohensee) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 12:04:50 +0800 Subject: Another question about free-markets... (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810051212.HAA02813@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <3618FDA1.5A8F936A@is9.nyu.edu> Jim Choate wrote: > > Forwarded message: > > > Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 10:03:25 +0100 > > From: Steve Mynott > > Subject: Re: Another question about free-markets... > > > On Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 11:53:28PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > > > > > Now in a free-market, by definition, there is no law. What then is the > > > > no in a free market there is no state > > > > there are laws based on natural rights > > Ok, who writes the laws? Who enforces the laws? Who decides what is natural? Everyone. Ever heard of common law? > Remember, we have *NO* participants in a free market other than the producer > and the consumer. Two, and *only* two, parties are involved. This is incorrect. Everyone is involved, in that there is generally more than one producer, and almost always more than one consumer. If the general body of consumers feel that producer X is doing something unethical, or otherwise badly, they will not do business with that producer --either for fear of being cheated, or simply because they feel that it would be morally incorrect to support him. If it happens that there is only one producer, then the general sentiment of the consumers will create a large demand for an alternative supply of whatever producer X produces. This generally leads to the diminishment of X's profits, which either drives him out of business entirely, or forces him to change his ways. This is how it works in a free market/society. Of course, if it were a governed society, producer X would buy up a bloc of politicians, and get them to either pass laws prohibiting or handicaping his potential competition, or get them to give him a big fat subsidy, which can be used to drive competitors out of business. The net result: everyone is forced to buy from producer X, even though everyone knows he's slime. Is the argument any more clear now? Michael Hohensee From mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de Sun Oct 4 21:43:35 1998 From: mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de (Mok-Kong Shen) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 12:43:35 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' In-Reply-To: <199810051105.HAA13894@germs.dyn.ml.org> Message-ID: <3619125B.79B9DEEA@stud.uni-muenchen.de> Werner Koch wrote: > > Mok-Kong Shen writes: > > > I think it all depends upon the free will of the authors of the codes > > to determine under exactly what conditions other people may share their > > intellectual properties without paying money. The one may impose > > some non-monetary conditions in the hope of achieving some > > non-monetary effects in exchange of the work that has been done, while > > Please read the GPL before talking about it! > > The GPL covers freedom and not price. I suppose you misunderstood me. Did I say price? I expressed that the context is one for free of charge (without paying money). M. K. Shen From brownrk1 at texaco.com Sun Oct 4 21:54:44 1998 From: brownrk1 at texaco.com (Brown, R Ken) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 12:54:44 +0800 Subject: Monitoring traffic Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F8487@MSX11002> This week's New Scientist magazine (p. 6) has a short column about Xacct t5hat looks as if the journalists swallowed a press release whole and have puked it up almost undigested: "Using the Internet could become more expensive if service providers adopt new software that allows separate billing for emails, downloading graphics and streaming audio or video". It desceibes an unlikley scenario in which ISPs charge more per minute for high-quality video and less for low-quality or email. I'm not sure the journalist knows the difference between an ISP and a content provider. Yet another business that would be made obsolete by widespread use of strong encryption. Unless of course they mean to head that off at the pass by making ISPs charge more to transfer encrypted packets? When you look at their website http://www.xacct.com/usage.html you find a description of what seems like a pretty normal system monitoring application (although I'm sure it is wonderfully written) surrounded by what, when we were young and foolish, we used to call Marketdroid Waffle: "XACCTusage Family XACCTusage is a multi-source, multi-layer network usage metering and mediation solution that gives Network Service Providers (NSPs), including enterprise network (Intranet) operators, the intelligence to right-price IP services." Enough to make your teeth curl. The names of the people interviewed tickled my spoof detectors as well. "Anil Uberoi" and "Charles Arsenault" sound distinctly dodgy on this side of the Atlantic. Ken Brown From tcmay at got.net Sun Oct 4 22:53:35 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 13:53:35 +0800 Subject: Monitoring traffic In-Reply-To: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F8487@MSX11002> Message-ID: At 9:41 AM -0800 10/5/98, Brown, R Ken wrote: >This week's New Scientist magazine (p. 6) has a short column about Xacct >t5hat looks as if the journalists swallowed a press release whole and >have puked it up almost undigested: > >"Using the Internet could become more expensive if service providers .... "When reached for comment, Crypto Anarchy Institute Director Timothy May said: "This use of press releases in place of journalists actually researching stories is of course common." He went on to add: "Get used to it."" --Tim May Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From nobody at replay.com Sun Oct 4 23:04:50 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 14:04:50 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199810051855.UAA14551@replay.com> At 04:19 PM 10/5/98 +0100, Richard.Bragg at ssa.co.uk wrote: >Camels eat first and carry afterwards so stuff a thousand bananas down its >neck and get it to carry 1000 across. The remaining 1000 are to be left to >ferment to make a delicious drink for the camel handler who has just >persuaded a camel to eat 1000 bananas. You print 1000 certificates for bananas, and require the camel to accept them. Then you make him carry all 3000 across the desert. Then you print three million certificates, and declaring his certificates devalued, hand him three bananas, one of which you keep as income tax. You also keep half a banana in banana-transfer-taxes. From rah at shipwright.com Sun Oct 4 23:05:21 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 14:05:21 +0800 Subject: Java-based Crypto Decoder Ring gets NIST FIPS 140-1 certification Message-ID: As breathlessly reported in DIGSIG :-). Cheers, Bob Hettinga --- begin forwarded text MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 09:45:19 -0500 Reply-To: Digital Signature discussion Sender: Digital Signature discussion From: Richard Hornbeck Subject: Java-based Crypto Decoder Ring gets NIST FIPS 140-1 certification To: DIGSIG at LISTSERV.TEMPLE.EDU Java-based Crypto Decoder Ring gets NIST FIPS 140-1 certification INSTEAD OF STORING YOUR PRIVATE KEY IN SOFTWARE ON YOUR PC, KEEP IT IN HARDWARE, ON YOUR CLASS RING, KEY FOB, MONEY CLIP, WATCH OR ANYTHING ELSE THAT CAN STORE A 16mm, stainless steel case. According to its Web site (www.ibutton.com), "the iButtion provides for secure end-to-end Internet transactions-including granting conditional access to Web pages, signing documents, encrypting sensitive files, securing email and conducting financial transactions safely - even if the client computer, software and communication links are not trustworthy. When PC software and hardware are hacked, information remains safe in the physically secure iButton chip." Unlike storing your private key in software on your PC where it can remain in cache after use, and be retrieved by a hacker, the crypto iButton private key never enters your PC, so it cannot be intercepted. In July, the Crypto iButton from Dallas Semiconductor received the NIST FIPS 140-1 "Security Requirements For Cryptographic Modules" certification. The Crypto iButton provides hardware cryptographic services such as long-term safe storage of private keys, a high-speed math accelerator for 1024-bit public key cryptography, and secure message digest (hashing). To date, only 15 hardware products have been validated by the U.S. and Canadian governments. According to their press release at: http://www.dalsemi.com/News_Center/Press_Releases/1998/pr_fips.html, the Crypto iButton ensures both parties involved in a secure information exchange are truly authorized to communicate by rendering messages into unbreakable digital codes using its high-speed math accelerator. The Crypto iButton addresses both components of secure communication, authentication and safe transmission, making it ideal for Internet commerce and/or banking transactions. The Crypto iButton consists of a physically secure, million-transistor microchip packaged in a 16mm stainless steel can. Not only does the steel protect the silicon chip inside from the hard knocks of everyday use; it also shows clear evidence of tampering by leaving scratch and dent marks of the intruder. This steel case satisfies FIPS 140-1 Level 2 Tamper Evidence requirements for physical security. Note: Within the overall 140-1 certification are various sub-levels that identify how well the product rates in different categories such as Physical Security, Environmental Failure Protection, and Tamper Resistance. The sum of the ratings in the individual categories determines whether it merits certification. The iButtion also allows the owner to set an automatic expiration date, to limit the potential for unauthorized use. Once the built-in clock reaches a pre-set time, the chip self-expires and requires re-activation by the service provider before service can be renewed. The service provider can verify that an individual has possession prior to initial activation or renewal (re-activation). In this way, a lost or stolen iButton unconditionally limits the potential for unauthorized use to the remaining activation time, which can be made arbitrarily short by the iButton holder or service provider. According to its Web site, Blue Dot receptors using either the Java operating system (OS), or a proprietary OS, can be purchased online for $15 each. The receptor plugs directly into the parallel port on a PC, and includes software for configuring its features. The software also programs the decoder ring with the private key the first time, and performs any other administrative functions. Just press the Blue Dot with the iButton (ring, fob, key ring, etc.) to establish the connection path. If you know your ring size, you can order Josten's 'Java-powered ring,' or the 'Digital Decoder Ring,' online. Also available are the 'Fossil Watch, key ring, or money clip. http://www.iButton.com/DigStore/access.html#jring. Costs for a single unit range from $45 to $89. "Unlike a loose plastic card, the iButton stays attached to a carefully guarded accessory, such as a badge, ring, key fob, watch band, or wallet, making misplacement less likely. The steel button is rugged enough to withstand harsh outdoor environments and durable enough for a person to wear every day. An individual maintains control over their Crypto iButton in yet another way-a secret Personal Identification Number. If so programmed, the iButton will not perform computations until its PIN is entered, like a bank ATM. " A list of developers and their off-the-shelf applications is at: http://www.iButton.com/Connections/Catalogs/index.html. Custom, networked, server-based applications are available, in addition to individual, standalone PC products. The crypto iButtion is currently being tested by the USPS for electronic distribution of postage stamps. The company marketed its iButton products for other non-crypto uses starting in 1991. A list of current implemented and pilot projects using the product to simply store and process data around the world is at: http://www.iButton.com/showcase.html. This includes the mass-transit system in Turkey, bus passes in China, vending machines in Canada, parking meters in Brazil and Argentina, and buying gas in Mexico and Moscow. Richard Hornbeck www.primenet.com/~hornbeck --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From petro at playboy.com Sun Oct 4 23:22:17 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 14:22:17 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810041334.IAA31037@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: At 8:34 AM -0500 10/4/98, Jim Choate wrote: >> From: "James A. Donald" >> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) >> Bullshit. No monopoly has ever happened except by regulation >That is truly Bullshit. >Microsoft got to where it is because of a lack of regulation, the abuses of Microsoft is nowhere NEAR a monopoly. Yes, they are the largest in their niche, but they are coming under increasing competition, and even without government interference in the markets they will come under increasing competition from Linux, Solaris x86, and possibly MacOS X. >the aircraft industry in the 1940-50's that led to regulation at the end of >the 50's and 60's. The steel industry in the north east in the early 1900's. >The food packing and garment industries of the north east and pacific coast >in the 20's through the 50's. The railroad industry in the mid-1800's. The railroad industry in the mid-1800's was CAUSED BY GOVERNMENT. Try reading that link that Gering posted to Greenspans essay on Anti-trust: http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html I can't speak to the others, but I'd bet that lurking behind each of them is the Government causing the problems it later seeks to solve with more legislation. >Every one of these created a monopolistic market because of a *lack* of >regulation. Wrong. Too much government interference. -- petro at playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy. petro at bounty.org-----for everthing else. They wouldn't like that. They REALLY Economic speech IS political speech. wouldn't like that. From petro at playboy.com Sun Oct 4 23:35:56 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 14:35:56 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810042024.PAA32554@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: At 3:24 PM -0500 10/4/98, Jim Choate wrote: >Forwarded message: > >> Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 12:42:58 -0700 >> From: "James A. Donald" >> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) > >> Microsoft is not a monopoly. In servers, where much of their >> income comes from, > >Malarky, MS makes the vast majority of their money off end-user and single >machine licenses. Look at their quarterly or yearly earning statements. Ummm...Ever hear of this little start up in Cupertino called Apple? Has a couple billion in the bank, net profits last quarter larger than Dell &etc. >> Linux is eating their lunch, > >It is certainly growing but the fact is that by a factor of orders of >magnitude commercial Unix'es own that market. When it comes to mission >critical servers Solaris, HP, & AIX own the market still. So M$ STILL doesn't have a monopoly. >> and the >> desktop is under continual threat. For a monopoly to be a >> monopoly, you not only have to have most of the market, you >> have to have some means of excluding others, which Microsoft >> manifestly does not. > >Not from a lack of trying on their part and the fact that federal regulators >stepped in before it became totaly regulated. Crap, the Feds stepped in just as market forces were starting to weaken Microsoft. Linux is starting to eat into the server market, Apple is coming back out of it's slump, more and more people are starting to realize home bad M$ is. >> You are totally deluded. None of these are examples of >> monopoly, > >Certainly they were. Each and every example listed (and many more) were >industries which were controlled by a small number of companies whose share >in the total market was squeezing out competition. The results would have >been a growing number of buyouts and thinning of competition to the point >that only one or two companies would have survived. Other than the Railroads, which have already been shown to be a government CREATED monopoly, how was the Aircraft Industry a monopoly? The GARMENT INDUSTRY? Come on Jim, "Put Up Or Shut Up". > except for the railroad industry where government >> intervention was for the purpose of creating monopoly, not >> preventing it. > >In the aircraft industry for example, while the number of riders was growing >very quickly there was a concommitent increase in end-user ticket prices >that was way out of line with the increased cost of business operations as >well as a decrease in the overall safety of the industry which was >exemplified by a increase in the number of air crashes and aircraft who >couldn't pass maintenance inspections yet continued to fly. Doesn't sound like a monopoly issue as much as a saftey issue. Nothing there looks like a conspiracy to prevent other from entering the market. >> The garment and food packing industries were and are a huge >> network of innumerable tiny shops, > >All working for about 5 or 6 companies who actlualy marketed and distributed >the items. Just get a Dallas Texas phone book for that period (it's a >distribution hub for the clothing/garment industry even today). That is still 5 or 6 companies in competition. >> and the aircraft industry >> had several big companies in fierce competition.=20 > >Yep, in the mid-50's there were like 5 national/international aircraft >operators and the number of commercial avaition manufacturers selling to the >national and international carrier market was like 3. There were smaller >companies like Ryan for example but they were owned by the larger companies >and eventualy merged into the regular operations. What barriers OTHER THAN REGULATORY/LEGAL did they raise to competitors? -- petro at playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy. petro at bounty.org-----for everthing else. They wouldn't like that. They REALLY Economic speech IS political speech. wouldn't like that. From petro at playboy.com Sun Oct 4 23:59:37 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 14:59:37 +0800 Subject: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810042101.QAA00049@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: At 4:01 PM -0500 10/4/98, Jim Choate wrote: >Forwarded message: >> Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 11:40:34 -0700 >> From: "James A. Donald" >> Subject: Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... >cases of E. Coli for example would decrease? Why is it that the number of >deaths in this country from salmonella and related food diseases have >*decreased* since the industry was regulated in the early 1920's when the >problem (people getting sick or dying from adulterated foodstuffs) was >at its peak? Freon, or rather cheap refridgeration. -- petro at playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy. petro at bounty.org-----for everthing else. They wouldn't like that. They REALLY Economic speech IS political speech. wouldn't like that. From petro at playboy.com Mon Oct 5 00:09:37 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 15:09:37 +0800 Subject: Another question about free-markets... In-Reply-To: <199810050453.XAA01444@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: At 11:53 PM -0500 10/4/98, Jim Choate wrote: >Milton Friedman won the Nobel price in 1976 in economics. One of the >questions he asked was: > >Do corporate executives, provided they stay within the law, have >responsibilities in their business activities other than to make as much >money for their stockholders as possible? > >His answer was 'no', they have no responsibility outside of those two >considerations (ie the law, stockholders expectations of profit). The law was a very implicit assupmtion in his question. Take the law out of it and ask him again. If he gives you the same answer, he is wrong. -- petro at playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy. petro at bounty.org-----for everthing else. They wouldn't like that. They REALLY Economic speech IS political speech. wouldn't like that. From petro at playboy.com Mon Oct 5 00:14:53 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 15:14:53 +0800 Subject: Another question about free-markets... In-Reply-To: <199810050453.XAA01444@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: At 12:58 AM -0500 10/5/98, James A. Donald wrote: >At 11:53 PM 10/4/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote: >> Now in a free-market, by definition, there is no law. What >> then is the responsibility of businesses other than the >> pure unadulterated pursuit of profit? > >None whatsoever. One must also draw the distinction between long term profits, and this quarters bottom line. Things that positively impact this weeks bottom line (say, dumping PCB's in the local water supply) negatively impact next year/next decades (all your prospective customers are either dead, or have 3.5 arms, and a distinct lisp). >> If this includes lying, denying consumers information, etc. >> what harm is done, they have fulfilled their responsibility >> to their shareholders (potentialy quite lucratively) > >While there is a sucker born every minute, the strategy you >describe is for the most part unlikely to be profitable. In the _long_ term. >Fortunately the most cost effective method of eliminating all >competition is that followed by Alcoa, to deliver a >satisfactory product at the cheapest possible price. Funny how he never talks about that one. -- petro at playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy. petro at bounty.org-----for everthing else. They wouldn't like that. They REALLY Economic speech IS political speech. wouldn't like that. From petro at playboy.com Mon Oct 5 00:36:39 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 15:36:39 +0800 Subject: In-Reply-To: <199810042112.XAA11806@replay.com> Message-ID: At 4:02 AM -0500 10/5/98, Reeza! wrote: >At 11:12 PM 10/4/98 +0200, Anonymous wrote: >>At 12:59 PM 10/3/98 -0400, Michael Motyka wrote: >>>> There is a desert which is 1000 miles across. There is a camel who can >>carry >>>> 1000 bananas maximum. The camel eats 1 banana per mile travelled. The >camel >>>> has a total of 3000 bananas to begin with. What is the maximum number of >>>> bananas that the camel can get across to the other side uneaten? >>> >>>My camels don't understand/can't eat fractional bananas. >> >>Why are bananas quantized in the presense of camels? Is this >>a quantum-computing thing? >> > >Are we stipulating that the camel will travel in a straight line? >Or will it meander a bit, following the path of least resistanct through >the dunes? If the camel is going to meander, following some perceived "path of least resistence", then could it's back and forths be used as a source of entropy? -- petro at playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy. petro at bounty.org-----for everthing else. They wouldn't like that. They REALLY Economic speech IS political speech. wouldn't like that. From sunder at brainlink.com Mon Oct 5 01:03:39 1998 From: sunder at brainlink.com (Sunder) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 16:03:39 +0800 Subject: Canadian RCMP's & government workers lose vacation over Y2K Message-ID: <36193391.316C57@brainlink.com> http://www.ottawacitizen.com/national/981003/1910271.html From sunder at brainlink.com Mon Oct 5 01:16:26 1998 From: sunder at brainlink.com (Sunder) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 16:16:26 +0800 Subject: [Fwd: [Spooks] Letter from a CIA officer with a gripe] Message-ID: <36193687.2F47ED74@brainlink.com> To: Spooks Subject: [Spooks] Letter from a CIA officer with a gripe From: Bob Margolis Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 22:30:07 -0500 Reply-To: Bob Margolis Sender: owner-spooks at qth.net February 26, 1998 Senator Lauch Faircloth 317 Hard Senate Office Building United States Senate Washington, DC 20510 Senator Faircloth: I am very concerned with recently published reports, which conclude that the Central Intelligence Agency was not involved in drug activity in connection with their activities in Latin America. As a former Central Intelligence Agency officer I had direct knowledge of matters which may be relevant in this matter. During the period of January 1986 until July 1990 I was assigned as the lead Computer Systems Analyst Programmer to a facility which was initially called Project Koral during the building phase in 1985, but upon activation was known as BYJURY within the Office of Communications (DA/OC) although this designation was later changed to OC/MIAMI. Our callsign was KKN39 and our routing indicators was RUEG and RUEGMI. Because it operated under the guise of being a U.S. Army facility it was also known as the United States Army Regional Communication Agency/National Communications System and telegraphically as RRF MIAMI. However, at no time did the facility ever support any DOD efforts. The primary mission of this facility was to support the activities of the Continuity of Government project which was identified by project cryptonyms as CHALLIS, FESTIVE, FENCER, FEDDER, PEGASUS and ZEUS and in this role the name of the facility was Atlantic Relay Facility I (ARF- 1). The overall umbrella organization for this effort was initially known as NEISS, later as NEISO and finally as SIO and at one point had space located in the basement of the Tysons Corner mall in Vienna, Virginia. The facility itself was located on U.S. Government property, which was known locally as the Richmond Naval Air Station. This same property was also the location of a University of Miami Primate Research Center, a Marine Corps Reserve unit, the Central Intelligence Facility and another NEISO activity which was identified as a unit of the U.S. Army 7th Signal Corps but which was known with NEISO as CPIC-East. The OC/MIAMI facility was staffed with approximately 15 people. A facility manager, a senior watch officer, a station engineer, a programmer analyst, three electronic technicians, an administrative assistant and 7 communications officers. Because the activities in support of the NEISO operations was minimal in peacetime, the facility was used by the Office of Communications as a major relay to provide linkages between several CIA facilities in Southern Florida (LA/MIAMI, FR/MIAMI, Miatech, FBIS Key West) and several other sites in the Caribbean and South America. In addition we also periodically provided telecommunications service to other CIA facilities whose primary relay was the Office of Communications relay facility near Culpepper, Virginia which was known for years as YOGURT but was later known as BYJAMS and still later as OC/BRANDY with a callsign of KKN50 and a routing indicator of RUES. By now I hope you realize that I did have access to the information which I am about to convey. The information given above can be verified by the CIA, although they will be extremely reluctant to do so since the extent of the NEISO project was withheld from Congress About a 18 months after my arrival at the facility we were informed that we would be the primary relay facility for a small station which was established on Swan Island in support of a variety of operations which were being conducted as part of our support for the CIA's efforts in Nicaragua. This facility was centered on an airstrip, which was used as a base of operations for pilots who were dropping supplies to the rebels, which the CIA was supporting. The communications setup for this facility was something that we called a flyaway package. Basically it consisted of a HF transmitter/receiver a PC-based communications terminal and a KG-84 encryption device. The KG-84 was considered to be one of the most secure cryptographic devices in use at that time. It came into universal use by the CIA after it became known that the Walker's had compromised the KW-7 in 1985. When the encrypted signal was received at BYJURY, it was decrypted through one of our KG-84 devices and from there the signal was passed to the SPARS message switch in unencrypted form. However, much of the traffic, which was transmitted on this circuit, was super- enciphered with One-Time-Tape (OTT). This was extremely unusual under the circumstances since electronic encryption was considered quite adequate for secure CIA communications. I know from personal experience as a communications officer prior to becoming a computer programmer that except for annual exercises to maintain proficiency in one-time- tape techniques, there was essentially no usage of one-time-tape for circuits which had secure communications circuitry. The fact that this particular station was using one-time-tape over a secure circuit was noted by all of the communicators at BYJURY and while we did not have any means whereby to decipher the messages further, it was broadly speculated that there was something happening on Swan Island which was so sensitive that it could not be entrusted to normal electronic encryption. When you consider that most Talent Keyhole and Rapport data was only afforded normal encryption, the volume of one-time-tape usage by this station can only be viewed as extremely noteworthy. If Congress decides to investigate this matter further, I also need to add that the CIA will probably state that the messages, which were transmitted to and receive from this station are no longer held. This is totally inaccurate. All message traffic into and out of CIA Headquarters is held in local storage for several weeks and after that time is no longer routinely available. However, for many years now there have been backup copies of the traffic which are transmitted on a daily basis to an off-site storage facility at Station A of the Warrenton Training Center where it is transferred to magnetic tape for permanent archives. It is highly likely that the CIA will deny that this archiving takes place because even the head of the Office of Communications probably does not realize that this is occurring since this is considered a low-level routine administrative task and quite often CIA managers above the GS-14 level simply do not have any understanding or knowledge of the actual working of the communications network. If the CIA does deny that the archiving occurs you may wish to use the power of congress to pursue the matter until they admit that the records do exist. While the actual magnetic tapes may have been replaced by more permanent storage such as CDROMS, I can pretty much assure you that the storage does exist. I am providing this information because after the extremely harsh and discriminatory treatment, which I experienced during the period of 1989-1992, I no longer feel any sense of loyalty to the CIA nor do I feel that I have any obligations to them. They were wrong in treating me the way that they did and demonstrated that they preferred to take the word of a senior manager who habitually drank alcohol while performing in his position and they preferred to protect those who were engaged in sexual improprieties. On top of that they also manipulated the federal court system to ensure that they received decisions which favored their point of view. There are apparently several federal judges and U.S. Attorney's who have profited enormously by making decisions, which prevented my case from ever being adequately heard in court. If congress is interested I could also provide information which would tend to indicate that senior officials within the Office of Communications engaged in misuse of government funds and in which official books were manipulated to make it look as if money was being spent for official purposes when, in fact, it was being spent for the benefit of senior managers in a fraudulent and wasteful manner. After all of these years I still remain angry over the treatment I received. When I became a government employee I fully intended to serve an entire career in government service, but when I was faced with treatment which was so harsh, punitive and discriminatory and when all recourse was denied to me by the so-called statutory Inspector-General of the CIA and his minions, I was placed in a position in which I had to leave government service for my own protection since I could no longer predict the capricious actions by those who held the power to make the live of an employee miserable. They were wrong in what they did and there is simply no excuse for permitting managers to have such power to destroy a human being. I can never forgive their actions and at this point the only way that I can deal with my anger is to communicate exact details of matters which I experienced as an employee in hopes that I can bring shame to the Agency. As a human being I deserved a certain level of dignity and I received none. Government agencies should be held to a standard whereby no employee is discriminated against for any reason. Please contact me if any additional information is needed on this subject. All information in this letter is in the public domain and may be disseminated freely. Kenneth C Stahl --- Submissions should be sent to spooks at qth.net To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe spooks" to majordomo at qth.net From ian at deepwell.com Mon Oct 5 02:09:59 1998 From: ian at deepwell.com (Ian Briggs) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 17:09:59 +0800 Subject: odd comment Message-ID: <199810052206.PAA03010@cyberpass.net> A friend of mine works in an IT department for a major tech company. Three of the people in his department were just transfered to their new contract. They are rewiring some of the network for a highway system in California that monitors for explosives. Now, he doesn't know anything more than that. In California there are several highway stretches that have large metal telephone poles stretching accross the two right lanes of a major three lane highway. On top of the poles are two metal boxes about the size large bread boxes. Now any idea what those boxes are? and if anyone has heard of this monitoring system and if so what agency is responsible for this? Also does anyone know who is responsible for all the cameras that now monitor the highways? Almost every overpass in Sacramento has one that views each stretch of the highway. -Ian Welcome to 1984 as with all goverment projects, its a bit late and slightly overbudget -IB. From billp at nmol.com Mon Oct 5 03:19:50 1998 From: billp at nmol.com (bill payne) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 18:19:50 +0800 Subject: one-time pad Message-ID: <3619502C.696E@nmol.com> Orlin http://www.aci.net/kalliste/ and, of course,http://www.aci.net/kalliste/bw1.htm I got a big kick reading http://www.jya.com/tristrata.htm Especially, While a one-time pad is, in fact, theoretically unbreakable when used properly, the details of using it properly make it entirely unusable in any modern commercial or military setting. And This kind of system was used for the U.S.-Soviet teletype "hot line" and it is occasionally used for paper ciphers and spies, but that's it. Codes and Cryptography by Dominic Welsh references on page 126 Sandia's Gus Simmons as the source of the above. (And if users can exchange these keys, why can't they just exchange the messages?) I think the reason is that the users want to exchange keys for messages to be sent at a later time, perhaps electronically. But we have to stick to the position. Does the algorithm pass the Black and White test or not? No buts. Let's all hope for settlement of this UNFORTUNATE matter before it gets WORSE. bill Title: Black and White Test of Cryptographic Algorithms Jump to Forum Click Image to Jump to Next Article Go to Text Only Print Version Black and White Test of Cryptographic Algorithms by William H. Payne This article requires special formatting. Please Click Here to Read Send This Article to a Friend: � Your Name: � Email Address of your Friend: � Your Email address: � � � � � Back to Home Page Quick Menu Visit the Button Shop Interactive Forum Black and White Test of Cryptographic Algorithms E-mail the Editor � From billp at nmol.com Mon Oct 5 05:47:03 1998 From: billp at nmol.com (bill payne) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 20:47:03 +0800 Subject: keep up-wind - you think we are KIDDING? Message-ID: <36197418.19E5@nmol.com> Subject: Effects of Nukes Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 09:47:43 -0600 From: bill payne To: gap at igc.apc.org, tom carpenter - halcyon , jeff debonis <76554.133 at compuserve.com>, lawya at lucs-01.novell.leeds.ac.uk, senatorlott at lott.senate.gov, senator_leahy at leahy.senate.gov, conrad_burns at burns.senate.gov, larry_craig at craig.senate.gov, senator at wyden.senate.gov, dpcintrn at osd.pentagon.mil, conrad_burns at burns.senate.gov, senator_gorton at gorton.senate.gov, senatorlott at lott.senate.gov, john_ashcroft at ashcroft.senate.gov, michigan at abraham.senate.gov, sam.brownback at .senate.gov, senator at dorgan.senate.gov, senator_stevens at stevens.senate.gov, senator at hutchison.senate.gov, olympia at snowe.senate.gov, senator at hollings.senate.gov, senator at inouye.senate.gov, wendell_ford at ford.senate.gov, senator at rockefeller.senate.gov, john_kerry at kerry.senate.gov, senator at breaux.senate.gov, senator at bryan.senate.gov, HERBERT.RICHARDSON at hq.doe.gov, BILL.RICHARDSON at HQ.DOE.GOV, pcassel at rt66.com, gregh at scene.com CC: senator at wellstone.senate.gov, jy at jya.com, senator_mccain at mccain.senate.gov, grassley , cynthia mckinney , c paul robinson , art morales , cypherpunks at toad.com, ukcrypto at maillist.ox.ac.uk Monday 10/5/98 7:01 AM Tom Carpenter http://www.whistleblower.org/ I hope your week-end conference went well. I think I will in Pullman in a few weeks. And, therefore, almost a DOWNWINDER. When I was a prof at Washington State University 1966-79 we traveled to Spokane. I always wondered why I saw so many sick kids in Spokane. I think we all now know a possible reason. Albuquerque Journal Sunday 10/4/98 Heath Effects of Nuke Sites Targeted DOE's Richardson to Review Reports The Associated Press DENVER - U.S. Energy Secr- ary Bill Richardson says he will investigate reports of health prob- lems among people living near or working at federal nuclear weapons. plants and research facilities in 11 states. A total of 410 people told a news- per, The Tennessean, they are suffering from unexplained illness- including tremors, memory toss, fatigue and a variety of breathing, muscular and reproductive prob- lems. Their doctors cannot explain why they are sick. No direct link has been estab- lished between the illnesses and the "I want to be absolutety sure we're erring on the side of making sure there are no problems." U.S. ENERGY SECRETARY BILL RICHARDSON Department of Energy sites. But doctors, scientists and lawmakers say it's large enough to warrant a comprehensive study to try to find the cause. "My views we ought to get to the bottom of this," Richardson told the newspaper after meeting Friday with residents near the Rocky Flats nuclear site in Denver. "I want to be absolutely sure we're erring on the side of making sure there are no problems." Scientists have been concerned for decades about radiation from nuclear production and its link to cancer But no one has ever looked into noncancerous illnesses. During a 22-month investigation, the newspaper found ill people at 13 DOE sites in Tennessee, Colorado, South Carolina, New Mexico, Idaho, New York, California, Ohio, Ken- tucky, Texas and Washington. The Energy Department had ear- lier said it does not plan to take a comprehensive look at the issue. http://www.tennessean.com/special/oakridge/part3/index.shtml Here is some other relevant information about the U.S. goverment, Department of Energy, and nukes from Wierd History 101 by John Richard Stephens http://www.thegrid.net/fern.canyon/weird/contents.htm [A]nd then there are the legitimate concerns of terrorists using nuclear weapons. This risk is emphasized by the many incidents where the smugglers of nuclear components have been caught. But let's not get into that. Ever since the bombs were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, people have worried about having one of these horrors dropped on them. Since the demise of the Soviet Union, this threat has become more nebulous, making it a bit more difficult for people to focus their fears.16 As a result, their fears have diminished somewhat even though the threat has probably increased because of the increase in countries that have the 16 As of 1997, Russia and the United States still had about seven thousand strategic (or long rang) warheads each. Roughly half of these could be launched with a few minutes notice. bomb and the advances in technology that enable a bomb to be made from fissionable material the size of a beer can, while a bomb that can level a city can now be made to fit into a knapsack. But during the Cold War, the threat seemed much more immediate. Partly in response to these fears, the govern- ment implemented programs to teach people how they could protect themselves in the event of a nuclear attack. Early efforts downplayed the risks. One amazing example of this is the pamphlet Survival Under Atomic Attack. Published by the U.S. government in 1950, this official booklet proclaims, "You can SURVIVE. You can live through an atom bomb raid and you won't have to have a Geiger counter, protective clothing, or spe- cial training in order to do it." And then it goes on to give such advice as, 'After an air burst, wait a few minutes then go help to fight fires. After other kinds of bursts wait at least 1 hour to give lingering radiation some chance to die down." Discussing the role of the IRS in a nuclear attack, the Internal Revenue Service Handbook (1976) says, "During a state of national emergency resulting from enemy attack, the essential functions of the Service will be as follows: (1) assessing, collecting, and recording taxes. . .� Where is the Best Place to Go? If you live in a State where there is danger from sudden storms like cyclones or hurricanes, you may have a "cyclone cellar" or something similar. If so, you have a shelter that will give excellent protection against atomic bombs. [People soon realized this wasn't quite true, and they began building bomb shelters.] "All you have to do to protect yourself from radiation is go down to the bottom of your swimming pool and hold your breath." -David Miller Department of Energy spokesperson [S]o there you have it. You're now prepared to survive nuclear warfare. Think you can handle it? Actually, it's very hard to believe that, after five years of intensively studying the effects of atomic bombs and radiation at Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and various tests involving military personnel as human guinea pigs, the government didn't have a better idea of the dangers. �My fellow Americans. I am pleased to tell you I just signed legislation which outlaws Russia forever. The bombing begins in five minutes." -President Ronald Reagan during a sound check for a live radio show, 1984 [I]n one of the tests in 1953, U.S. soldiers were placed near the explosion to test how well they could function after a blast. Sergeant Reason Warehime was one of fifty soldiers who were in a trench two miles from ground zero. They wore no protective gear. �The first thing I saw" he later reported, �was a real bright light like a flashbulb going off in my face, but it stayed on. It was so bright that even with sunglasses on, my hands over my eyes, and my eyes closed, I could actually see the bones in my hands. I felt as if someone was hugging me really tight, and my whole body was being compressed. All of a sudden, I heard an awful noise and felt an intensely hot wind blowing and the ground rocking like an earthquake. The dust was so thick I could not see the man right next to me. The air was so hot that it was difficult to breathe. . . . Since the fireball was directly over our heads, there is no doubt in my mind that we were in the 'stem' of the mushroom cloud." A voice over a loudspeaker ordered them to advance toward ground zero. The sandbags along the top of their trench were on fire. On reaching a bunker that was just over a mile from ground zero, they found eight men. "Those guys were sick as dogs and heaving their guts out," he said. Soon they began finding spots where the sand had melted into glass. After reaching the crater, they turned back and eventually were picked up by two radiation specialists in full protective gear. On the way back, Warehime and some of his companions started throwing up. A few months later; all of his hair fell out, his teeth began to rot, and he was diagnosed as sterile. Eventually, he developed cataracts, lung cancer; his bones became brittle, and he had to use crutches to get around. Even though radiation is known to cause these things, in the 1980s, the Veterans Administration insisted his problems weren't caused by this bomb and denied disability to him and many others like him. An estimated 250,000 military personnel were exposed to radiation in experiments between 1946 and the 1970s. Many additional civilians were also used as guinea pigs in radiation tests. Very few have ever received any compensation for or assistance with the perma- nent damage caused to them. Warehime was exposed to a forty-three- kiloton (not megaton) bomb. It turned out to be almost twice as powerful as the physicists had calculated it would be and was about twice as powerful as those used on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Its radiation cloud spread across the nation from Nevada, fogging undeveloped film as far away as New Jersey. Morales and I are in the planning stage to put up a web site. John Young has been encouraging us to do this. Reason is that we are going after the judges and clerks in the Tenth circuit who awarded our court wins to Sandia we, in fact, we won. Now that John Young got the docket for us. Also I will be doing a Privacy Act violation defamation lawsuit against Sandia, DOE, EEOC, Lockheed Martin, AT&T, and named defendants. We will have several FORUMS. 1 Pro se litigation against the U.S. Federal government 2 Microsoft Assembler mixed-language programming 3 80C32 hardware, Forth high-level and assembler programming. at least. John Young started 3. http://jya.com/f86/whpf86.htm 1 and 2 may be compatible. Microsoft distributes buggy software while Gates, Paul Allen, and Balmer become some of the richest men in the world. Perhaps, with some legal encouragement, the above three should spend some of their money getting the bugs out of their software. To kick-off 1 and 2 I am thinking of posting a complaint against Microsoft for having scammed me by not included a 32 bit linker with MASM 6.11 I just bought. If we don�t settle, of course. I will check e-mail in a few minutes to see how progress to get the 32 bit linker is coming. Microsoft appears to want me to buy a C compiler or Windows NT SDK [software development kit] to get the 32 bit linker. With all this scary stuff of effects of nukes, let�s hope Rep. McKinney and Senator Grassley are making progress to help get NSA to post the requested documents. http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm And, too, let�s ALL hope for settlement so that we can move on to other constructive projects. Before things GET WORSE. Later bill Subject: one-time pad Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 17:06:53 -0600 From: bill payne To: j orlin grabbe , conrad_burns at burns.senate.gov, senator_gorton at gorton.senate.gov, senatorlott at lott.senate.gov, john_ashcroft at ashcroft.senate.gov, michigan at abraham.senate.gov, sam.brownback at .senate.gov, senator at dorgan.senate.gov, senator at wyden.senate.gov, senator_stevens at stevens.senate.gov, senator at hutchison.senate.gov, olympia at snowe.senate.gov, senator at hollings.senate.gov, senator at inouye.senate.gov, wendell_ford at ford.senate.gov, senator at rockefeller.senate.gov, john_kerry at kerry.senate.gov, senator at breaux.senate.gov, senator at bryan.senate.gov, nmir at usa.net, Info at IranOnline.com, info at jebhe.org, Mehrdad at Mehrdad.org, cypherpunks at toad.com, ukcrypto at maillist.ox.ac.uk, wpi at wpiran.org, abd at CDT.ORG, merata at pearl.sums.ac.ir, dpcintrn at osd.pentagon.mil, abumujahid at taliban.com, schneier at counterpane.com CC: jy at jya.com, john gilmore , Emile Zola , lennon at email.nist.gov, itl-bulletin at nist.gov Orlin http://www.aci.net/kalliste/ and, of course,http://www.aci.net/kalliste/bw1.htm I got a big kick reading http://www.jya.com/tristrata.htm Especially, While a one-time pad is, in fact, theoretically unbreakable when used properly, the details of using it properly make it entirely unusable in any modern commercial or military setting. And This kind of system was used for the U.S.-Soviet teletype "hot line" and it is occasionally used for paper ciphers and spies, but that's it. Codes and Cryptography by Dominic Welsh references on page 126 Sandia's Gus Simmons as the source of the above. (And if users can exchange these keys, why can't they just exchange the messages?) I think the reason is that the users want to exchange keys for messages to be sent at a later time, perhaps electronically. But we have to stick to the position. Does the algorithm pass the Black and White test or not? No buts. Let's all hope for settlement of this UNFORTUNATE matter before it gets WORSE. bill --- laszlo http://www.qainfo.se/~lb/crypto_ag.htm Sayonara 1 crypto ag 2 wiegand wires There are some good business opportunities. If we live that long. WE believe that the OTHER SIDE is NOT happy about what happened. NSA Hoe Cryptogate /JI October 5, 1998 http://www.jya.com/crypto.htm --- False Security William H. Payne Abstract "Why 130 million Wiegand cards are in use throughout the world . The most secure of all access card technologies. HID Wiegand cards are virtually impossible to counterfeit... any attempt to alter them destroys them! ... Since no direct contact with the card is required, they are totally enclosed, making them absolutely immune to the elements and a frustration of vandals. ... The secrets to the security of an HID Wiegand card are those little enclosed wire strips. Once corrupted, they won't work." Access Control & SECURITY SYSTEMS INTEGRATION, September 1998 www.prox.com http/www.securitysolutions.com http://www.securitysolutions.com/ *** Bullshit.*** False! - in the EDITED edition, of course Fumble, Bumble and Inept Funds Electronic Lock Breaking at Sandia National Laboratories. Zola http://zolatimes.com/ Would this be worth some bucks? Want another FUN article? http://www.zolatimes.com/v2.29/bw1.html http://www.aci.net/kalliste/bw1 I would need a BRILLIANT EDITOR to help polish the ms. http://www.aci.net/kalliste/ Counterfeiting Wiegand Wire Access Credentials Bill Payne October 16,1996 Abstract Wiegand wire access credentials are easy and inexpensive to counterfeit. Access Control & Security Systems Integration magazine, October 1996 [http://www/securitysolutions.com] published the article, Wiegand technology stands the test of time by PAUL J. BODELL, page 12 Many card and reader manufacturers offer Wiegand (pronounced wee-gand) output. However, only three companies in the world make Wiegand readers. Sensor Engineering of Hamden Conn., holds the patent for Wiegand, and Sensor has licensed Cardkey of Simi Valley, Calif., and Doduco of Pforzheim, Germany, to manufacture Wiegand cards and readers. ... A Wiegand output reader is not the same thing as a Wiegand reader, and it is important to understand the differences. In brief, Wiegand reader use the Wiegand effect to translate card information around the patented Wiegand effect in which a segment of a specially treated wire generates an electronic pulse when subjected to a specific magnetic field. If the pulse is generated when the wire is near a pick-up coil, the pulse can be detected by a circuit. Lining up several rows of wires and passing them by a cold would generate a series of pulses. Lining up two rows of wires - calling on row "zero bits" and the other "one bits" - and passing them by two different coils would generate two series of pulses, or data bits. These data bits can then be interpreted as binary data and used to control other devices. If you seal the coils in a rugged housing with properly placed magnets, and LED and some simple circuitry, you have a Wiegand reader. Carefully laminate the special wires in vinyl, and artwork, and hot-stamp a number on the vinyl, and you have a Wiegand card. IN THE BEGINNING Wiegand was first to introduce to the access control market in the late 1970s. It was immediately successful because it filled the need for durable, secure card and reader technology. Embedded in the cards, Wiegand wires cannot be altered or duplicated. ... Bodell's Last statement is incorrect. Tasks for EASILY counterfeiting Wiegand wire cards are 1 Locate the wires inside the card to read the 0s and 1s. 2 Build an ACCEPTABLE copy of the card. Bodell's clear explanation of the working of a Wiegand card can be visualized zero row | | | one row | | binary 0 1 0 0 1 representation Solutions to Task 1 A X-ray the card B MAGNI VIEW FILM, Mylar film reads magnetic fields ... Edmunds Scientific Company, catalog 16N1, page 205, C33,447 $11.75 is placed over the top of the Wiegand card. COW MAGNET, Cow magnetics allow farmers to trap metal in the stomachs of their cows. Edmunds, page 204, C31,101 $10.75 is placed under the card. Location of the wires is easily seen on the green film. Mark the position of the wires with a pen. Next chop the card vertically using a shear into about 80/1000s paper-match-sized strips. Don't worry about cutting a wire or two. Note that a 0 has the pen mark to the top. A 1 has the pen mark at the bottom. Take a business card and layout the "paper match"-like strips to counterfeit the card number desired. Don't worry about spacing. Wiegand output is self-clocking! Tape the "paper-match - like" strips to the business card. Only the FUNCTION of the card needs to be reproduced! History Breaking electronic locks was done as "work for others" at Sandia National Laboratories beginning in 1992 funded by the Federal Bureau of Investigation/Engineering Research Facility, Quantico, VA. The FBI opined that this work was SECRET/NATIONAL SECURITY INFORMATION. Details of the consequences of this work are covered in Fired Worker File Lawsuit Against Sandia Specialist Says He Balked When Lab Sought Electronic Picklock Software, Albuquer Journal, Sunday April 25, 1993 State-sanctioned paranoia, EE Times, January 22, 1996 One man's battle, EE Times, March 22, 1994 Damn the torpedoes, EE Times, June 6, 1994 Protecting properly classified info, EE Times, April 11, 1994 DOE to scrutinize fairness in old whistle-blower cases, Albuquerque Tribune, Nov 7 1995 DOE boss accelerates whistle-blower protection, Albuquerque Tribune, March 27, 1996 DOE doesn't plan to compensate 'old' whistle-blowers with money, Albuquerque Tribune September 27, 199 From alan at clueserver.org Mon Oct 5 07:38:15 1998 From: alan at clueserver.org (Alan Olsen) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 22:38:15 +0800 Subject: In-Reply-To: <199810042112.XAA11806@replay.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981005203144.042e9bd0@clueserver.org> At 11:12 PM 10/4/98 +0200, Anonymous wrote: > >At 12:59 PM 10/3/98 -0400, Michael Motyka wrote: >>> There is a desert which is 1000 miles across. There is a camel who can >carry >>> 1000 bananas maximum. The camel eats 1 banana per mile travelled. The camel >>> has a total of 3000 bananas to begin with. What is the maximum number of >>> bananas that the camel can get across to the other side uneaten? >> >>My camels don't understand/can't eat fractional bananas. > >Why are bananas quantized in the presense of camels? Is this >a quantum-computing thing? No, it's a Perl thing. ]:> --- | Bill Clinton - Bringing back the Sixties one Nixon at a time! | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | | | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan at ctrl-alt-del.com| From Gambler at msn.com Mon Oct 5 22:42:38 1998 From: Gambler at msn.com (Gambler at msn.com) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 22:42:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Best online casino odds Message-ID: <199810060542.WAA14986@toad.com> The best odds and easy cashier options at any online casino is at:

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Great games, graphics, and sound too. From jya at pipeline.com Mon Oct 5 07:56:03 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 22:56:03 +0800 Subject: US Rights Violations Message-ID: <199810060346.XAA01265@camel8.mindspring.com> We offer Amnesty International's devastating critique of US human rights violations, due to be released in hardcopy tomorrow: http://jya.com/usa-rfa.htm (365K) It recounts in voluminous, documented, gruesome detail what American justice is truly like in prisons, jails, precinct houses, on the highways and in the streets. After this it's going to difficult for the US to preach human rights violations to other countries. From Gambler at msn.com Mon Oct 5 09:56:47 1998 From: Gambler at msn.com (Gambler at msn.com) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 00:56:47 +0800 Subject: Best online casino odds Message-ID: <199810060540.WAA14966@toad.com> The best odds and easy cashier options at any online casino is at:

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Great games, graphics, and sound too. From kriek at bigfoot.com Mon Oct 5 10:14:22 1998 From: kriek at bigfoot.com (Neels Kriek) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 01:14:22 +0800 Subject: Camel Message-ID: <002201bdf0f0$a4e61000$92060cd1@alien> OK, here is my solution ;) Load 1000 bananas on the camel. Make him walk 990 miles. 10 banana left. Get 10 unemployed people. Make them carry 200 bananas each. Since no-one can eat more than 1 banana per 10 miles(at a sustained rate anyways) make them walk 990 miles. 1010 bananas left. Load 990 on the camel. Each guy has 1 banana left for the last 10 miles. Camel eats 10 bananas on last 10 miles. QED 990 bananas on the other side. or Make camel walk a mile. Make him stop. Walk back and carry all 2000 bananas left to current spot. Put one banana on camel to get 1000 again. Make him walk 1 mile again and repeat. At other side unload 999(or 1000 if you were clever enough to carry the extra one that the camel eats on the last mile in your pocket) bananas. Leave one on the camel for the mile back. Walk camel back a mile . load 1000 bananas. Unload 999 bananas. You should now have 1998 bananas. or Buy a damned 4X4. We all know camels don't like bananas and would rather bite you than carry 1000 of them. Regards ;) From tcmay at got.net Mon Oct 5 10:32:58 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 01:32:58 +0800 Subject: US Rights Violations In-Reply-To: <199810060346.XAA01265@camel8.mindspring.com> Message-ID: At 8:38 PM -0700 10/5/98, John Young wrote: >We offer Amnesty International's devastating critique >of US human rights violations, due to be released >in hardcopy tomorrow: > > http://jya.com/usa-rfa.htm (365K) > >It recounts in voluminous, documented, gruesome detail >what American justice is truly like in prisons, jails, precinct >houses, on the highways and in the streets. > >After this it's going to difficult for the US to preach human >rights violations to other countries. By the way, "The New Yorker" on the newstands has a major article by Seymour Hersh explaining why many experts think the U.S. bombing of the "nerve gas factory" [sic] in Khartoum was unjustified, and the bombings of the Afghan sites were unproductive (even if possibly more justifiable). And there was a report I saw flying by on this list or on the Usenet to the effect that several of the top military commanders who should have been consulted were not, and that Louis Freeh, who was in Nairobi on the investigation, was not consulted. (I don't know how credible this report is.)' Many nations have condemned the "cowboy antics." (Normally I'm not too sympathetic to charges that the U.S. is behaving like a "cowboy," but in this case it appears to be an apt description.) If it turns out that Clinton acted rashly to escape his own Cigargate problems, and that the normal chains of command were bypassed, then his head will really roll. We may have to actually hang the fucker for high treason. (Though I guess the new PC method is lethal injection.) The "Wag the Dog II" war in Albania (coincidence?) is just icing on the cake. --Tim May Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. 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NOW WE HAVE BOUGHT IN THOUSANDS MORE HI- RES PHOTOS FROM TOP SEX PHOTOGRAPHERS, WE SCOUR THE WEB EACH DAY TO FIND LINKS TO SITES WITH 100S MORE FREE IMAGES, AND THERE'S SO MUCH MORE, SUCH AS THE FIVE EXTRA BONUS PICS YOU GET EVERY DAY NOW, THAT YOU WON'T FIND ON THE STUFFED WEB SITE, THEY ARE EXCLUSIVE TO OUR SUBSCRIBERS! AND THERE'S SO MUCH MORE TO COME, SO KEEP COMING BACK FOR MORE EACH DAY! This email is never sent unsolicited. Stuffed is the supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full instructions on unsubscribing are in every issue of Eureka! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- From bill.stewart at pobox.com Mon Oct 5 11:36:45 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 02:36:45 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810042013.PAA32334@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981005091349.008ad100@idiom.com> At 03:13 PM 10/4/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote: >> From: "James A. Donald" >> At 09:08 AM 10/4/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote: >> > Your local church is a member of a larger international >> > collective that does in fact use coercion in one form or >> > another. >> Send me some of whatever you are smoking. > >That's the best you can come up with? He's just implying that *your* local church is Rastafarian.... ~~~~~ Kingdom? I thought we were an autonomous collective.... Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From bill.stewart at pobox.com Mon Oct 5 11:36:45 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 02:36:45 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810042024.PAA32554@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981005101458.008ad910@idiom.com> >> It is certainly growing but the fact is that by a factor of >> orders of magnitude commercial Unix'es own that market. >> When it comes to mission critical servers Solaris, HP, & >> AIX own the market still. > >The number one server is not Microsoft, and is not commercial. Apache is the #1 server if you count by "web sites on the Internet". Lots of web sites aren't on the Internet, but inside corporate nets, which are more likely to be running commercial software, whether commercial or NT, while people with home machines obviously prefer free. But what if you count by "pages served per day"? High-volume servers are likely to run on bigger machines than low-volume servers, so they're more likely to be running commercial Unix, though some may be running on multi-Pentium systems with NT. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From bill.stewart at pobox.com Mon Oct 5 11:53:19 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 02:53:19 +0800 Subject: camels and bananas, for some reason. In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981005190213.00845510@205.83.192.13> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981006004529.00827b20@idiom.com> At 02:21 PM 10/5/98 +0200, Raccoon wrote: >On Mon, 5 Oct 1998, Reeza! wrote: > >> At 11:12 PM 10/4/98 +0200, Anonymous wrote: >> >At 12:59 PM 10/3/98 -0400, Michael Motyka wrote: >> >>> There is a desert which is 1000 miles across. There is a camel who can >> >carry >> >>> 1000 bananas maximum. The camel eats 1 banana per mile travelled. The >> camel >> >>> has a total of 3000 bananas to begin with. What is the maximum number of >> >>> bananas that the camel can get across to the other side uneaten? >> >> Are we stipulating that the camel will travel in a straight line? >> Or will it meander a bit, following the path of least resistanct through >> the dunes? > >Since we are looking for the best possible result (=the most bananans >moved to the other side), we must assume that the path of least resistance >equals a straight line. This may be improbable, but it is not impossible! >Remember that this is maths, and that we're looking for the best possible >limit. No, this isn't maths, this is camels, and they'll give you as much resistance as they feel like, and *you* may be looking for the most bananas moved across the desert, but the camel's perfectly happy to sit here and eat all the bananas here, crossing 0 miles of desert, or dump you 50 miles out in the desert and come back and eat the bananas. But other than the PERL book, what's it got to do with cypherpunks? Just that bananas are related to Bill Clinton? Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From brownrk1 at texaco.com Mon Oct 5 12:48:56 1998 From: brownrk1 at texaco.com (Brown, R Ken) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 03:48:56 +0800 Subject: importance of motivation Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F8489@MSX11002> Mark Hahn wrote: >>using your head to think any thoughts we don't want thank. Good Drugs >>keep you addicted to your job, your country, your government, your boss. >>The Best Drug is the mortgage. > If you want to condemn the whole damn system we call society, > then the "Best Drug" is to have children. See if that doesn't > change your perspective a bit. But the poster mentioned a daughter... Ken Brown From mmotyka at lsil.com Mon Oct 5 15:18:20 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 06:18:20 +0800 Subject: odd comment Message-ID: <361A794B.4912@lsil.com> Sounds like a potential urban legend or at least a misnaming of some comprehensible system. > A friend of mine works in an IT department > for a major tech company. Three of the people in > his department were just transfered to their new contract. > > They are rewiring some of the network for a highway system > in California that monitors for explosives. > What are the techniques that could be used for detecting conventional materials? I can't think of anything likely to work through a vehicle panel on a highway at 65 mph. Doesn't mean there isn't such a system. I guess a neutron counter or other radiation detector might be useful for spotting the scary new SUPERTERRORISTS. > On top of the poles are two > metal boxes about the size large bread boxes. > > Now any idea what those boxes are? > If they have plastic windows they could be speed measurement devices. I'd be interested in driving by some, are there some examples that are closer to Pleasanton? You can always ask your highway department representative - they might talk before thinking even if it's something TOP SECRET. Mike From mgering at ecosystems.net Mon Oct 5 15:24:08 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 06:24:08 +0800 Subject: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd) Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A1F@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com> Jim Choate > Wrong. Socialism is the belief that property is best managed > and owned by the government. Utopian socialism/communism believed that property is best managed and owned by the people -- the people as some abstract collective entity aka proletariat aka BORG. The dictatorial government is the agent of the proletariat to abolish individual rights and transition to communist utopia where government is no longer needed. Of course actual socialism in mixed economies and communism in command economies bear little resemblance to Marx's delusions. Matt From mgering at ecosystems.net Mon Oct 5 15:26:57 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 06:26:57 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A20@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com> Jim Choate wrote: > Remember, you can't dominate a market that can't be saturated > and you can't saturate a local market unless you find a > mechanism to keep outside competition from moving in. Currently > this is only possible in very strongly regulated markets in > control economies. By golly Jim you almost got it. The only problem is your statement that one can dominate "saturable" markets without some artificial "mechanism." If you mean dominate by market share, then sure that is possible. But that in itself is not bad, ALCOA dominated via low prices and high efficiency. Domination in the bad sense is to be immune from the laws of supply and demand, and hence have arbitrary power over the market -- that is the definition of a coercive monopoly. You will find that that is not possible without an artificial barrier to competition. > Though, it does occur to me that the fact that OS/2 has a > stronger faction in Europe than in N. and S. America in > relation to Microsoft may be an indication that continental > saturation is possible. The conclusions I would draw from that are IBM as the former market giant had a very strong International infrastructure, channels and reputation. Since the US market is the principle industry producer, it was more competitive and less dominated by IBM. Microsoft, therefore, had an easier time in an already competitive US market than breaking in overseas. They also had the underdog phenomenon going for them here, the local competitive market wanting to break IBM's dominance. The fact that OS/2 utterly flopped in the US and found some adopters overseas is credit to IBMs international reputation and little else. Matt From mgering at ecosystems.net Mon Oct 5 15:42:12 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 06:42:12 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A21@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com> Brown, R Ken wrote: > Jim can look after himself, but the aircraft industry is > certainly monopolistic. There are only 2 serious players > in the market for large long-haul airliners, Airbus..and > Boeing First of all the majority of the market to which they are selling is anything but free. Each government has a monopoly on their military, and many have a monopoly on their commercial airlines as well. Government aren't bound by the same survival rules as consumers, they are able to irrationally spend as the can simply extort more money. Despite this very strong market distortion, competition for defense contracts had been rather competitive in the US, with the recent consolidation due to shrinking demand (note they cannot seek other markets freely to compensate). And despite the strong market distortions, Boeing makes a very slim profit margin on commercial aircraft (~3%) competing with Airbus. The private aircraft industry has had a terrible time not for lack of demand, but because of rampant irrational and overzealous liability claims. This has created a very limited number of vendors and highly inflated prices. Again, none these are natural effects of the free market. > The real problem with monopoly or cartel is not high prices > - many monopolies choose to charge low prices - it is lack > of freedom. So you would force people to pay higher prices so can have more choices? You would force people to support inefficient competitors? > A monopolisitic supplier of some good has a measure > of political power. Political power gums at the mean end of a gun, what political power do monopolies have and how? Matt From mgering at ecosystems.net Mon Oct 5 15:44:07 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 06:44:07 +0800 Subject: Another question about free-markets... Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A22@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com> Jim Choate wrote: [govt subsidies to transcontinental railroads] > Only *after* it was clear that these companies could not > do it themselves because of a lack of sufficient traffic > to support the business. So if the market could not support it, who paid for it and how, who benefited from the distortion and who paid the price? The market demands the most efficient distribution of capital resources, when the government screws with that and screws with the market, the resulting problems (arbitrary coercive power of Western railroads, and severe lack of quality and safety) are because of that distortion, not the market. The government should have *not* intervened. Which is not my point though, my point is the judgements of an uneducated populace and corrupted government to blame this as a natural effect of a free market should not be carried forward, it needs to be exposed and corrected. [oil mineral rights] >> The placement (ownership) of these rights, their value, >> restrictions and enforcement are the result of a free >> market? No, government intervention. > > Actualy no, try buying a piece of land and enforcing the > title *without* registering it at the country seat or its > likes. Which is not a market instrument, it is a government instrument. Government intervention does not necessarily have to be direct and purposeful. Matt From brownrk1 at texaco.com Mon Oct 5 15:45:12 1998 From: brownrk1 at texaco.com (Brown, R Ken) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 06:45:12 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F8493@MSX11002> Petro wrote: [...snip...] > Other than the Railroads, which have already been shown to > be a government CREATED monopoly, how was the Aircraft > Industry a monopoly? The GARMENT INDUSTRY? > Come on Jim, "Put Up Or Shut Up". Jim can look after himself, but the aircraft industry is certainly monopolistic. There are only 2 serious players in the market for large long-haul airliners, Airbus (explicitly founded and subsidised by government) and Boeing (probably now turning a real profit but in the past cross-subsidised from military spending). Whether or not either of these firms would now exist without government subsidy is unknowable. Whether or not the monopolistic situation would exist if there had been no government subsidy is also unknowable. I do have trouble with the idea of the garment industry being monopolistic. About 2 miles from where I'm typeing this, in Whitechapel and Spitalfields in the East End of London, street after street is packed with small sweatshops, "import export" businesses, tiny fashion houses [...snip...] >>All working for about 5 or 6 companies who actlualy marketed and >> distributed the items. Just get a Dallas Texas phone book for >> that period (it's a distribution hub for the clothing/garment industry >> even today). > That is still 5 or 6 companies in competition. It looks as if the only monopolies you recognise are global ones where one big company supplies most of the market for some good, worldwide. At that level there are damn few monopolies - MS, Boeing, the Murdoch empire. But a monopolistic situation develops when one supplier, or a group of suppliers in cartel can control the market in some locality. Like the breweries in Britain a few years back - there were (and are) hundreds of breweries but the "big six" had carved up large areas of the country between them. So if you went to a bar in one area you got Watney's beer, in another, Bass. The real problem with monopoly or cartel is not high prices - many monopolies choose to charge low prices - it is lack of freedom. A monopolisitic supplier of some good has a measure of political power. They can make people behave in ways they might not otherwise behave. A monopolisitic employer of labour has *huge* political power. From whgiii at invweb.net Mon Oct 5 16:14:31 1998 From: whgiii at invweb.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 07:14:31 +0800 Subject: Yet Again Another Snake Oil Vendor Message-ID: <199810062107.RAA26498@domains.invweb.net> Below is a message I posted to the SpyKing mailing list a few months back when Jaws decided to spam the list with their crypto "challange". >From: "William H. Geiger III" >Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 14:41:24 -0500 >To: SpyKing >In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980601033850.0355c350 at admin.con2.com> >Subject: POST RE: $5,000,000 Encryption contest -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <3.0.3.32.19980601033850.0355c350 at admin.con2.com>, on 06/01/98 at 02:38 AM, SpyKing said: >15)From: SpyKing at thecodex.com >Subject: $5,000,000 "Break the Code" Encryption Contest >Friday May 29, 3:00 pm Eastern Time >Company Press Release >SOURCE: JAWS Technologies Inc. >JAWS Launches $5,000,000 ``Break the Code'' Encryption Contest Yet another Snake-oil post. Such challenges like this are really meaningless and are designed as a publicity stunt to gain some free press rather than as a legitimate test of the strength of the algorithms involved. The *only* way to test the security of an algorithm is through a process of peer-review of the source code. Until JAWS Technologies decides to go through this process I would stay far away from this and any other products they may produce. It seems quite clear that they have little to no understanding of the cryptology & security fields. I don't know what it is about the list but it seems that we must endure these snake-oil posts on a periodic basis. While I have replied here to many of these snake-oil advertisements I have yet to see one of these companies post a rebuttal (to the list or privately). I have submitted a copy of the Snake-Oil FAQ to SpyKing requesting that he publish it to the list (it's a little long so I don't want to post it directly). It can also be found at: http://www.interhack.net/people/cmcurtin/snake-oil-faq.html Security & Encryption are the big buzz-words in the computer industry and many companies are looking to cash-in on it. Be very wary of Johnny Come Lately's who overnight become cryptology "experts". - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgp.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: I love running Windows! NOT! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNXNVXo9Co1n+aLhhAQHr5gP/aghoKztlVP6EjX0FU2v5rkBdu5FbyEWR 6aR/DdOvVYphIIQMk1O1Twy7ZasVUW/dSBPl7uT1/6yfw/NzSonyztmw+WR5d4lg rWOZ8Y1JjbXvLzH3RzA+LXZbShZ/Z5Smdb0yybvldHogo8pYDNeeJ5ZtMJuSgYfI VkoA4SFBDoY= =0m9E -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Tag-O-Matic: You're throwing it all out the Windows! ----------------------------------------------------- -- End of forwarded message ----------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: If at first you don't succeed, work for Microsoft. From rah at shipwright.com Mon Oct 5 16:19:46 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 07:19:46 +0800 Subject: FINAL REMINDER: DCS-NY: October 13 Meeting: Stu Feldman of IBM Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text To: "recipient list suppressed" Subject: FINAL REMINDER: DCS-NY: October 13 Meeting: Stu Feldman of IBM Reply-To: dcs-ny-rsvp at piermont.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) From: "Perry E. Metzger" Date: 06 Oct 1998 15:03:08 -0400 Lines: 105 Sender: owner-cryptography at c2.net [If you know of people who may be interested in this meeting, please feel free to forward this message to them.] FINAL REMINDER: The second luncheon meeting of the Digital Commerce Society of New York (DCS-NY), will be held on Tuesday, October 13th at 12:00. If you are interested in attending, please RSVP and send in your check (as explained below) IMMEDIATELY. If we don't _receive_ your check by Friday, we cannot guarantee that we can seat you. (Normally I wouldn't be sending out a reminder this late, but we've had a large influx of inquiries in the last 24 hours.) This Month's Luncheon Speaker: Stuart Feldman, IBM Institute for Advanced Commerce, IBM T.J. Watson Research Center Topic: Future Directions in Electronic Commerce Stuart Feldman will delve into a half dozen major themes for long-term research in electronic commerce. These areas will take years to resolve at a research level and even longer to achieve full impact in the world economy. They include privacy, the evolving marketplace on several time scales, the rise of dynamic businesses and electronic haggling, improved relationships to customers, and the systems underpinnings needed to support the vast new opportunities and capabilities of electronic commerce. Stuart Feldman is Director of IBM's Institute for Advanced Commerce. The Institute is dedicated to creating new technologies for support of e-commerce as well as pursuing fundamental issues in e-commerce. He is also the author of the original "make" and "f77." WHAT IS DCS-NY? As some of you probably know, Robert Hettinga has been running a group called the Digital Commerce Society of Boston for over three years. DCSB meets once a month for lunch at the Harvard Club in Boston to hear a speaker and discuss the implications of rapidly emerging internet and cryptographic technologies on finance and commerce -- "Digital Commerce", in short. The Digital Commerce Society of New York (DCS-NY) is a spin-off of DCSB. We intend to meet the second Tuesday of each month for lunch at the Harvard Club in New York, and conduct meetings much like those of DCSB. Our organizing meeting in September was attended by a wide variety of professionals involved in the business, technical and legal sides of the emerging world of digital commerce. If you are interested in attending our next luncheon meeting, please follow the directions located below. If you merely wish to be added to our e-mail meeting announcements list, you may send your e-mail address to "dcs-ny-rsvp at piermont.com". Perry PS We would like to thank John McCormack for his invaluable assistance in procuring the venue for our meetings. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- HOW TO RSVP: The meeting will start at 12:00 noon on October 13th at the Harvard Club, which located at 27 West 44th St. in Manhattan. The cost of the luncheon is $49.00. To RSVP, please: A) Send a check for $49.00 (payable to "The Harvard Club of New York") to: Harry S. Hawk DCS-NY LUNCHEON Piermont Information Systems, Inc. 175 Adams St., #9G Brooklyn, New York 11201 Please include along with your check: 1) The name of the person attending 2) Their daytime phone number 3) Their e-mail address B) Send an email message to dcs-ny-rsvp at piermont.com indicating that you have sent your check, so that we can inform the Harvard Club of the number of people who will be attending. Please note that the Harvard Club dress code requires jacket and tie for men and comparable attire for women. If you have special dietary requirements, please check with us by email before you RSVP. Making final arrangements for our room requires that we have a good idea of how many attendees we will have. Because of this, it is very important that you RSVP quickly so that we will be able to get a larger room if necessary. We are looking forward to seeing you! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Perry --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Mon Oct 5 16:20:20 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 07:20:20 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <199810062119.QAA09408@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: Matthew James Gering > Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) > Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:20:41 -0700 > The only problem is your statement that one can dominate "saturable" > markets without some artificial "mechanism." Who said anything about 'artificial'? You have a sneaky habit of sticking terms in there where they don't go hoping somebody won't catch it. We're talking a free-market, there are *only* two participants; provider and consumer. If I allow 'artificial' in there then there is the explicit assumption that a third party is now involved. I won't accept a bastardization of free-market in that manner. If you want to expand your argument by the injection of these spurious terms (they aren't relevant to my argument) feel free. Be warned I will continue to point out the distinction vis-a-vis the impact on conclusions. > If you mean dominate by > market share, then sure that is possible. I mean *dominate* the market. Quit sticking extra terms in there trying to subtly change the meaning. I promise you I will notice so you can quit now. > ALCOA dominated via low prices and high efficiency. Domination in the > bad sense is to be immune from the laws of supply and demand, and hence > have arbitrary power over the market -- that is the definition of a > coercive monopoly. No, that is the definition of monopoly. Now what and how they got and retain that position may invoke coercion but it *isn't* a requirement for monoplies by definition. Don't try to confuse method with type. > You will find that that is not possible without an > artificial barrier to competition. Demonstrate please. The problem with this view is that it implies that given sufficient time *any* market strategy will fail. In other words there is no best or efficient strategy for a given market. In the past when this has been brought up I've asked for an explanation of how this dynamic works and specificaly what prevents such best-of-breed examples from existing. I'm still waiting for such an explanation. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rah at shipwright.com Mon Oct 5 16:20:35 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 07:20:35 +0800 Subject: Sad news ... (... or not ;-)) Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text From: Somebody Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 18:02:28 +0100 To: Robert Hettinga Subject: Sad news ... Mime-Version: 1.0 Hi Bob, I figured you might be interested in today's news: DigiCash Amsterdam has officially gone bankrupt. Even though anyone can access the news (although probably not yet in electronic form), I'd appreciate if you don't mention me as being the one who told you this. I take it that the details will be brought to light in the coming few weeks. Anyway, I believe this is very bad news for all those who believe in "bearer certificates" or whatever one might like to call them. --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Mon Oct 5 16:37:40 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 07:37:40 +0800 Subject: Garment industry..... Message-ID: <199810061240.HAA07266@einstein.ssz.com> Hi, Sorry, I'm going to have to back out for the next few days because of work load (I've barely had time to read all the traffic), but ... To answer a qeuestion about the garment industry being monopolistic. Go back, read the original post on that issue *AGAIN*. Pay particular attention to the *PERIOD OF TIME I SPECIFICALY MENTIONED*. If you actualy read it all the way through, and slowly so you can comprehend it, you will find that your protestations about the industry being monopolistic *today* are irrelevant. My point was focused on 60-80 years *IN THE PAST*. In particular the 1920's and 30's. (If you're going to scream "foul", at least be at the correct yard line on the field) My mention of the phone book implied you'd have to go to the library and get a *PERIOD* phonebook (that was my mistake, any true anarcho-capitalist or free-market maven is not likely to actualy use real-world examples - they're so messy). And yes, they had phones then, you could even have them in any color as long as it was black. Though the point *CAN* be made that even today sweatshops are continouly being found in places like Los Angeles, Houston, Chicago, etc. Just check your local newspaper. The reason that these are important is that they are indicators of a tendency of manufacturers to cut costs/overhead to the bone when left to their own wiles. This is a *VERY* negative indicator for those who feel that even an unregulated garment industry can exist in a regulated market, let alone a free-market. Again, businesses are run by people with the express intent of making money, in many cases at whatever cost to their employees and society as a whole. With this sort of psychological tendency the argument that free-markets will work is flawed. A commen comment in business classes and boardrooms today is to 'dominate the market'. That means *eliminate competition*. *THAT* means create a monopoly if at all possible and the laws to the contrary (which I hae yet to see anyone bring up a priori in these situations) be damned. Of course it should be pointed out that it's good legal and business practice *NOT* to mention these so that it can't be used against one as a premeditated intent. Something Microsoft seems to have forgotten in their raft of internal memo's about specificaly kludging DrDos. Another point I made several weeks to a couple of months ago regarded companies who *help* their competition in order to limit their ability to enter into specific markets as competitors seems to have born fruit. Over the last few weeks several internal documents from Microsoft were released (check the CNN and other archives) which seem to indicate a clear intent by Microsoft to *help* Novell and Apple with technology with the express intent of keeping them out of niche or target markets as competitors. Economic slight of hand... Course that isn't going to stop you from wailling for the dead (though could you keep it down so I can sleep since the temperature around here has finaly broken and it's not 90F at midnite). ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From whgiii at invweb.net Mon Oct 5 16:38:57 1998 From: whgiii at invweb.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 07:38:57 +0800 Subject: Web TV with 128b exported In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981006110801.0088a430@m7.sprynet.com> Message-ID: <199810062125.RAA26914@domains.invweb.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <3.0.5.32.19981006110801.0088a430 at m7.sprynet.com>, on 10/06/98 at 11:08 AM, David Honig said: >http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/981005/ca_microso_1.html >MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif., Oct. 5 /PRNewswire/ -- Microsoft Corp.'s (Nasdaq: >MSFT - news) WebTV Networks today announced it is the first U.S. company >to obtain government approval to export nonkey recovery-based >128-bit-strength encryption for general commercial use. WebTV Networks >pioneered low-cost access to the Internet, e-mail, financial services and >electronic shopping through a television set and a standard phone line. >The WebTV(TM) Network service, combined with the WebTV-based Internet >terminals and receivers, is the first communications system permitted by >the U.S. government to provide strong encryption for general use by >non-U.S. citizens in Japan and the United Kingdom. Such strong encryption >allows Japanese and United Kingdom subscribers of WebTV to communicate >through the WebTV Network (both within national borders and >internationally) without fear of interception by unauthorized parties. I have my doubts on this. I find it highly unlikely that the FEDs would approve this without some form of GAK built in even if it is not in the form of "key recovery". - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.openpgp.net Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: Walk through doors, don't crawl through Windows. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNhqM149Co1n+aLhhAQH6QgQAwbLSHKbvSQATd9faLKGGhijUdwykD39R pR4TUPBEEw8xZ8ueQBgNkh27Y6jUq3B+m6UuZlcrfMUHtCfHC69l0rE9zSpDVB+U 5zfGgapezqFOw6uy/Mma01WGtZcAjBH92xWT+iHP3VZyWavKU9f93HInup3rVOVZ bXbhoTW5nvk= =2xNs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jvb at ssds.com Mon Oct 5 16:49:05 1998 From: jvb at ssds.com (Jim Burnes) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 07:49:05 +0800 Subject: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810061803.NAA08378@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Oct 1998, Jim Choate wrote: > Forwarded message: > > > Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 11:19:54 -0600 (MDT) > > From: Jim Burnes > > Subject: Re: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd) > > > Hmmm. You imply that the employees and employers interests are not > > the same. > > Obviously this [is] so. > Demonstrate. Are you saying the interests of the employees is not in making money? In corps that is done by making a profit. I guess the employees could just steal from the cookie jar. I don't imagine the majority of the employees favor this route. > > The whole idea is to make a profit. > > There is MUCH more involved than simply making a profit. Demonstrate. The basis of capitalism is wealth creation through capital accretion and investment. Investment is risk laden. Why should I invest my capital, which represents many things, goods, services, time, etc if there is no payoff? Might as well stay in bed. If profit is not the driving concern of investors, maybe you could enlighten us unwashed masses. The wealth that is created (payroll included) can be then used for anything you like, from buying snowcones and sniper rifles to donating your cash to the Nature Conservancy. Whatever agenda you prefer. > > [irrelevant material deleted] > > > Any other sort of interest would simply induce a market distortion > > in the cost of investment capital. > > Demonstrate please. It follows that if you water down the proceeds without any accounting system then all you're doing is giving away benefits. These will (all other things being equal) reduce profits and decrease the value of the stock. It will then cost a lot more to attract investment capital -- perhaps to the point of dissolution of the company for lack of investment. The most the employees will be out is their job. The investors could be out their entire life savings. > > > The market detects socialism as damage and routes around it. > > Whoa horsey. I didn't say a damn thing about any third party regulatory > agency getting invovled here. Don't start trying to change the rules in the > middle of the game. OK. But my point still holds -- that all other things being equal sending more bennies out to the employees isn't going to help your stock prices, unless it also produces a concommitant increase in productivity. Still they are just bennies -- nothing new. If you are going to give the employees equity in the company's future, how do you do the accounting?? Somehow you will have to keep track of those shares of equity. Woops...were back to stock again. If you're argument is that that still doesn't make the management answerable, then what are voting blocks of shares? If there is an issue that is important to the employee voting block they can take it up in the stock meeting. If they loose, they can simply threaten to sell the block of stock and start their own company. Maybe they can do better. Good luck to them. > > > The entire market would never do this voluntarily, so by definition any > > distortion would have to be induced in a centrally managed economy. > > Demonstrate. Because these benefits are simply added cost to the production of goods and services (all other things being equal). When Joe Consumer goes to buy something, cost (at some level of acceptable quality) is usually the driving concern. They don't give a damn about lofty employee bonus programs. Most people don't give a damn if their cool new hiking shoes are made in Denver or Beijing. > > > By definition socialism. > > Wrong. Socialism is the belief that property is best managed and owned by > the government. This is within the context of a free market. This means that > the *ONLY* two parties involved are the producers and consumers. I am > discussing an alternative approach to business management. > > Fascism is the belief that property should be owned by private individuals > but managed by governments. > You're simply splitting hairs here. Systems of "fascism" and "socialism" have redefined "ownership" until people become slaves to the people controlling the definitions. Private ownership in the current system, fascist systems and socialist systems is a legal fiction. Ownership implies having sole benefit from use and disposal of the items in question. Under most governmental systems now in existence ownership is actually just rental where the state owns everything and tells you what your percentage is going to be. The only difference between marxism/socialism/communism and fascism is the point at which the state reclaims its property. In marxist systems the State reclaims its "property" in the beginning, assuming all people are of a criminal mindset and not worthy of real ownership. In socialist and pseudo-socialist systems like ours, ownership is a fantasy until profit is derived -- you are then assumed to be a robber baron. In a free state ownership is yours until a court can prove you are a criminal who has caused harm to others. What is amusing is that our system has finally removed the burden of proof in civil forfeiture law so that your "property" is considered to be a criminal until proven otherwise. It is then taken into custody. (*) The primary failing of marxism is that people were never allowed to even *believe* they could "own" something. That being the case they were unlikey to bother adding any value to anything. That is why they are boiling stones for soup. Now "ownership" has devolved to the russian mafia. Same thing. Unless the people of Russia smuggle themselves in a bunch of arms, institute and enforce a free market system with private property ownership they will never be anything more than peasants. (*) The reason why socialism-light (our system) works is because people are allowed to believe they own assets until those assets become valuable. The state then comes to tell you what your percentage of the sharecropping you get to keep. Of course you're allowed to believe you own something unprofitable forever (unless your using it write off taxes ;-) This allows socialism-light to succeed over marxism. By the time people have successfully created wealth its too late to go back and wonder what the hell you've gotten yourself into. (*) Footnotes: Footnote 1: Its interesting to note that civil law, where property can be held accountable, is an outgrowth of medieval trials where non-sentient entities where held accountable for acts of god (or the devil). If there was a crop blight, several local pigs could be put on trial, found guilty and burned. Strange people, humans. Footnote 2: People who have never known real freedom, never know when they should fight for it. Two cases in point: I was flying back from Anguilla into Denver in '97 and was sitting next to an intelligent and attractive Russian woman in her late teens/ early twenties. She was telling me all about what was going on in Russia with the Mafia controlling the cities. Extorting money from her father's restaurant seemed to be a favorite pastime for them. I thought a second about this and asked her why her father and the other people on the block didn't just buy a bunch of hunting shotguns etc and blow them away next time they tried to collect. She looked at me with a face of total puzzlement. The thought of defending themselves never crossed her mind. Much like the farmers who were ravaged during the Japanese civil wars they had no idea that simply arming themselves would discourage most would be attackers. Yesterday I was getting my hair cut and one of the women doing the haircuts was obviously a Russian immigrant. She was also complaining about how terrible it was right now. She was saying that "all people really wanted was to be left alone". It really sickened me that here was a person with a peasant mindset. That person came to the United States and is now a citizen. One more person that doesn't have the guts to stand against criminals. Unfortunately one more person voting in the United States. Freedom isn't free. jim burnes definitely out in the weeds now From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Mon Oct 5 16:49:12 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 07:49:12 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <199810061253.HAA07347@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: "Brown, R Ken" > Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) > Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 06:37:43 -0500 > I do have trouble with the idea of the garment industry being > monopolistic. About 2 miles from where I'm typeing this, in Whitechapel > and Spitalfields in the East End of London, street after street is > packed with small sweatshops, "import export" businesses, tiny fashion > houses This is perfect if you don't mind being a participant... Could you get a phonebook and make a list of the sweatshops. Enumerate them and then select 10% (if that isn't too many) and find out how many and to whom they sew their garments for? > It looks as if the only monopolies you recognise are global ones where > one big company supplies most of the market for some good, worldwide. > At that level there are damn few monopolies Remember, you can't dominate a market that can't be saturated and you can't saturate a local market unless you find a mechanism to keep outside competition from moving in. Currently this is only possible in very strongly regulated markets in control economies. This implies that, at least today because of communications and transportation improvement, only markets that are global (though it might also work on a national level) can be dominated. That is an interesting aspect I hadn't hit on so far. I'll add it to the mix and see what brews up... Though, it does occur to me that the fact that OS/2 has a stronger faction in Europe than in N. and S. America in relation to Microsoft may be an indication that continental saturation is possible. Might be explained by the fact that most businesses are continental and not international in scope of sales. I've got to go back to work now...I'll check in as I get the chance... ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Mon Oct 5 17:13:21 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:13:21 +0800 Subject: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... Message-ID: <199810061317.IAA07423@einstein.ssz.com> Hi, It occurs to me that there is another potential flaw in current economic theory and business practice. Currently (ala Friedmann) the parties that reap the benefit of a succesful business are the shareholders, this is currently seen to exclude the employees in many cases/companies. This approach undervalues the business worth of the employees commitment to the business. A more reasonable approach (and one that might make free-markets more workable, though not by itself) is to consider the employees shareholders even if they don't hold a single piece of stock. And no, their paychecks are not sufficient. Consider, another way to look at a business' goals is "to make every shareholder a millionare so they don't have to work at anything else". What business do you know has the specific goal of making their employees (all the way down to the janitor) sufficiently wealthy from their commitment to the business so that at some point they don't have to work any more either (and we are NOT talking about some measly 401k retirement program)? What would the impact be to the current business models if we include this axiomaticaly? ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Mon Oct 5 17:15:04 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:15:04 +0800 Subject: Free Market Monopolization Theory... Message-ID: <199810061319.IAA07486@einstein.ssz.com> Hi, Here is the note that I made regarding the saturation of free market economies. Note that this is several months old and I haven't been diligent in keeping it fully up to date... Forwarded message: > X-within-URL: http://einstein/ravage/free.market.monopolization.html > This is the theory in its current working version: > > An unregulated (free-market) economy will inherently monopolize when, but > not necessarily only if, the following are present: > > - the commen assumption by current free market models that consumers > are rational is irrational. A consideration of succesful marketing > mechanisms and human psychology will clearly demonstrate that > consumers are at best partialy rational. This is the fault in all > anarchy models (eg crypto-anarchy), they assume in an axiomatic > fashion that all participants will cooperate for not only their > individual best interest but the cooperatives best interest without > sufficient recognition that these may in many cases be in conflict. > It is the same failing every form of government without a clear and > proscribed list of individual and state rights and limits has, the > assumption that some minimal set of behaviours or goals will satisfy > all participants in all cases. The theory 'What is best for all is > best for the one' is false. > > - the importance of cooperation for mutual benefit that is axiomatic > in current free market theories is false. Mathematicaly the prisoners > paradox provides maximum payoff when defection occurs at a relatively > high rate and in a random pattern. A primary goal of any business is > not to ensure the survival of itself and it competitors but rather to > eliminate competition through more succesful strategies. A rational > consumer will act irrationaly at times because it is in their long > term best interest. Therefore the distinction between rational and > irrational consumers is false. > > - the market is saturated, in other words the number of consumers at > any given time are equal to or less than the service providers ability > to provide that service (or resource). This means the long-term survival > of firms is a function of retained market share and raw resource share > control/ownership. > > - the technology and/or start-up costs are high in material and > intellectual factors. This minimizes the potential for new providers > to start up. Providers will also require non-disclosure and other > mechanisms to reduce sharing of information and cross-communications > except under controlled conditions. Expect an increase in certifications > and implimentation standards required to do business with the more > succesful of these providers. > > - an individual or small group of service providers have a small but > distinct efficiency advantage in technology, manufacturing, or > marketing. Over a long-enough time this market advantage will grow > and as a result widen the 'technology gap' between firms. > > - expect the most efficient firms to share their profit with the > critical intellectual contributors. This further reduces the > problem of cross-communication and new provider start-up. > > - expect to see the more successful providers to join in co-ops with > the less succesful providers. This will be under the surreptitous > goal of 'developing technology'. It's actual goal will be to cause > these smaller firms to commit resources to such enterprises. As soon > as it is strategicaly advantagous the primary providers will break-off > the co-op. This has the effect of further reducing the ability of the > smaller providers to react in a timely manner to market changes or > develop new technology due to resource starvation. > > - expect to see the less efficient providers to combine in an effort > to reap the benefits of shared market share and resources. Unless > this partnering provides a more efficient model and there is sufficient > time for that efficiency to develop these new providers will eventualy > fail or be joined with other providers. > > - expect to see the primary provider buy those less efficient providers > that don't fail completely. These purchases will be as a result of > some new or unexpected technology that will significantly increase > the market share of the primary provider -or- it will be with the > goal of eliminating this secondary technology and forcing those > market shares to do without or use the primary providers technology. > > - initialy prices for services will be low to promote purchasing but > as providers obtain larger market shares their prices will increase > over time and out of step with inflation and other market forces in > order to widen the profit gap. The strategy is one of 'use it or > starve'. > ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rah at shipwright.com Mon Oct 5 17:17:47 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:17:47 +0800 Subject: Web TV with 128b exported In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981006110801.0088a430@m7.sprynet.com> Message-ID: At 2:08 PM -0400 on 10/6/98, David Honig wrote: > http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/981005/ca_microso_1.html > > MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif., Oct. 5 /PRNewswire/ -- Microsoft Corp.'s (Nasdaq: > MSFT - news) WebTV Networks today announced it is the first U.S. company to > obtain government approval to export nonkey recovery-based 128-bit-strength > encryption for general commercial use. Looks like all of those clandestine visits that BillG, um, paid, to BillC in Martha's Vinyard the last couple of summers finally, um, paid off? Nawwwwwww... Cheers, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From jamesd at echeque.com Mon Oct 5 17:22:43 1998 From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:22:43 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810061253.HAA07347@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199810061322.GAA05777@proxy4.ba.best.com> > > I do have trouble with the idea of the garment industry > > being monopolistic. About 2 miles from where I'm typeing > > this, in Whitechapel and Spitalfields in the East End of > > London, street after street is packed with small > > sweatshops, "import export" businesses, tiny fashion > > houses Jim Choate: > Could you get a phonebook and make a list of the > sweatshops. Enumerate them and then select 10% (if that > isn't too many) and find out how many and to whom they sew > their garments for? They sew for fashion houses, and there are more fashion houses than anyone can count. Even if there was only a single redistributor, there would be no monopoly, since the cost of entry to the business of specifying garments, buying them, transporting them, and reselling them is completely insignificant. Jim's present day "monopolies" are as utterly fantastic as his past monopolies. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG AQQ4m5gWiSF/xJOyvQy7KPjabjDdEir3CLICtAtG 46+3JIjNxZp7bEJXNFOzcCPyLHbMGc054WKXwyqLb ----------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state. http://www.jim.com/jamesd/����� James A. Donald From sdn at divcom.slimy.com Mon Oct 5 17:23:15 1998 From: sdn at divcom.slimy.com (SDN) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:23:15 +0800 Subject: Web TV with 128b exported In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981006110801.0088a430@m7.sprynet.com> Message-ID: <19981006151326.A7421@divcom.slimy.com> On Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 04:32:07PM -0500, William H. Geiger III wrote: > In <3.0.5.32.19981006110801.0088a430 at m7.sprynet.com>, on 10/06/98 > at 11:08 AM, David Honig said: > > >http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/981005/ca_microso_1.html > > >MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif., Oct. 5 /PRNewswire/ -- Microsoft Corp.'s (Nasdaq: > >MSFT - news) WebTV Networks today announced it is the first U.S. company > >to obtain government approval to export nonkey recovery-based > >128-bit-strength encryption for general commercial use. WebTV Networks > >pioneered low-cost access to the Internet, e-mail, financial services and > >electronic shopping through a television set and a standard phone line. > > >The WebTV(TM) Network service, combined with the WebTV-based Internet > >terminals and receivers, is the first communications system permitted by > >the U.S. government to provide strong encryption for general use by > >non-U.S. citizens in Japan and the United Kingdom. Such strong encryption > >allows Japanese and United Kingdom subscribers of WebTV to communicate > >through the WebTV Network (both within national borders and > >internationally) without fear of interception by unauthorized parties. > > I have my doubts on this. I find it highly unlikely that the FEDs would > approve this without some form of GAK built in even if it is not in the > form of "key recovery". It's probably a lot closer to the "private doorbell" scenario. The only thing that a WebTV unit will communicate with is the WebTV service (or the Japanese variant thereof). Since all traffic goes through a point that will likely cooperate with law enforcement (and has remote control of the boxes, too.), this doesn't represent much of a loosening in the export controls. It's probably as good as or better than any other Microsoft crypto, though. Jon Leonard From mgering at ecosystems.net Mon Oct 5 17:28:47 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:28:47 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A25@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com> Brown, R Ken wrote: > Same applies to education - I might be able to pay for my > daughter to go to school but we want everybody else's kids > to go to school as well because my life is better if they do. > So we pay for it through tax. "SHOULD EDUCATION BE COMPULSORY AND TAX-SUPPORTED, AS IT IS TODAY? The answer to this question becomes evident if one makes the question more concrete and specific, as follows: Should the government be permitted to remove children forcibly from their homes, with or without the parents' consent, and subject the children to educational training and procedures of which the parents may or may not approve? Should citizens have their wealth expropriated to support an educational system which they may or may not sanction, and to pay for the education of children who are not their own?" -- Nathaniel Branden Absolutely not. But even if you take a strong socialist/statist position and answer "yes," how can you justify expounding on the evils of coercive monopolies, their arbitrary power, abuse and inefficiency, and then at the same time make Education, one of the most important services to society, a coercive monopoly?! This simply does not make sense. Education needs to be brought into the marketplace so it can be objectively evaluated. VALUED. As an entitlement, education is not valued as it should be, and as a monopoly there is no leverage to choose standards which to value, to discriminate service. The educational system has failed worse than any other industry, not for lack of supply and demand, but for lack of free competition. Matt From whgiii at invweb.net Mon Oct 5 17:30:23 1998 From: whgiii at invweb.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:30:23 +0800 Subject: Web TV with 128b exported In-Reply-To: <19981006151326.A7421@divcom.slimy.com> Message-ID: <199810062222.SAA27925@domains.invweb.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <19981006151326.A7421 at divcom.slimy.com>, on 10/06/98 at 03:13 PM, SDN said: >It's probably as good as or better than any other Microsoft crypto, >though. That's not really saying much ... - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.openpgp.net Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: OS/2: Windows done RIGHT! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNhqaVo9Co1n+aLhhAQFxnAP+JTSoJh91kvTr2c6HLinj5fENlvZn7lQV R0LEg4EBDiahlPSjIvWgNdNBJMJnIAPv04Y4g7SvorXTfIl/okT7H7QN0YTGHHnP DkJYMknLxJtNCQ3fOSPpBPcmEA4zwVVq8pJOcmeXqsLCyajqfm7hEM4AIGgDV9vR dH21juYhpXM= =bJkv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz Mon Oct 5 17:33:29 1998 From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:33:29 +0800 Subject: Echelon's Origin Message-ID: <90771266316475@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz> John Young writes: >The NSA released during the summer a Top Secret memorandum by Truman in >1952 establishing NSA as the lead COMINT agency for the USG: Located nearby at http://www.nsa.gov:8080/docs/efoia/released/jfk.html are documents related to the Kennedy assassination. Check out the COMINT reports, they were getting information from an awful lot of interesting sources, many of which appear to be telegrams or telexes or similar communications. The Truman memo may show the background behind Echelon, but these things show it (or at least its ancestor) in action. Wow. Peter. From mgering at ecosystems.net Mon Oct 5 17:34:48 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:34:48 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A26@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com> > Political power gums at the mean end of a gun, what political > power do monopolies have and how? err...*comes* from the mean end of a gun. ;) Matt From guy at panix.com Mon Oct 5 17:51:39 1998 From: guy at panix.com (Information Security) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:51:39 +0800 Subject: Garment industry..... Message-ID: <199810061352.JAA04269@panix7.panix.com> > From: Jim Choate > > To answer a qeuestion about the garment industry being monopolistic. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. From petro at playboy.com Mon Oct 5 18:03:31 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:03:31 +0800 Subject: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810061803.NAA08378@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: At 2:35 PM -0500 10/6/98, Steve Mynott wrote: >any true cypherpunk must be a libertarian.. Libertarians are just cowardly anarchists, they lack the courage of their convictions to take the last step and eliminate government altogether. -- petro at playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy. petro at bounty.org-----for everthing else. They wouldn't like that. They REALLY Economic speech IS political speech. wouldn't like that. From petro at playboy.com Mon Oct 5 18:07:00 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:07:00 +0800 Subject: Sad news ... (... or not ;-)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 3:30 PM -0500 10/6/98, Robert Hettinga wrote: >--- begin forwarded text >From: Somebody >Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 18:02:28 +0100 >To: Robert Hettinga >Subject: Sad news ... >Mime-Version: 1.0 >I figured you might be interested in today's news: DigiCash Amsterdam has >officially gone bankrupt. >Even though anyone can access the news (although probably not yet in >electronic >form), I'd appreciate if you don't mention me as being the one who told you >this. >I take it that the details will be brought to light in the coming few weeks. >Anyway, I believe this is very bad news for all those who believe in "bearer >certificates" or whatever one might like to call them. Then again, maybe it won't be. Who owns the patents, Digicash, or Chaum? If it's digicash, who will buy the rights to it, and what would "they" do with that technology. -- petro at playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy. petro at bounty.org-----for everthing else. They wouldn't like that. They REALLY Economic speech IS political speech. wouldn't like that. From rms at santafe.edu Mon Oct 5 18:10:55 1998 From: rms at santafe.edu (Richard Stallman) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:10:55 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) In-Reply-To: <199810051105.HAA13894@germs.dyn.ml.org> Message-ID: <199810062305.RAA29198@wijiji.santafe.edu> I may wish to write some code for free, that is, have the intention of letting you use my source code in your programs, and to write other code for profit. Please separate the issues of freedom and price. I think you are lumping them together. A number of people these days write free software for profit; there are companies whose business is based on developing free software, and all the software they develop is free. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html for more about these issues. I would vastly prefer that people simply place their code in the public domain explicitly. If you want to use our code in non-free software, and leave your users (who would then be our users also) no freedom, it is understandable that you would ask for this. But if we care about their freedom, as well as about your freedom, it is natural that we would say no. I've heard many people say that the X11 license is "more free" than the GNU GPL. Implicit in that is an assumption that you should measure the freedom where the program leaves the hands of the original developer. But that doesn't measure the *users'* freedom. If you measure the freedom where the program reaches the end user, you find that the GPL results in more freedom for the users, because it protects the users' freedom. The X11 and BSD licenses have failed to do that. A large fraction of the users of X11 are running proprietary modified versions; for them, X11 has very little freedom. The same was true of BSD--most of its users were running the proprietary systems SunOS 4 and Ultrix. (Maybe that is still true.) See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/x.html for more explanation. But if you do decide to use a non-copyleft free license, please don't use the BSD license. Please use the X11 license, or some other that is free of special problems. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/bsd.html for an explanation. From rms at santafe.edu Mon Oct 5 18:11:27 1998 From: rms at santafe.edu (Richard Stallman) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:11:27 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) In-Reply-To: <199810051105.HAA13894@germs.dyn.ml.org> Message-ID: <199810062306.RAA29216@wijiji.santafe.edu> >The two have different goals. RMS is mistaken about appropriate >licensing for crypto code written by cypherpunks because he thinks the >goals are the same, when they are not. I beg your pardon, but this is no mistake. I'm well aware of the people who argue for donating code to companies "so it will be more widely used." Proprietary software developers have been seeking for years to convince free software developers to think this way, and not just in the field of encryption. This is what the X Consortium used to say (see http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/x.html). If you care about freedom, there's no reason why you can't care about users' freedom to share and change software, and their freedom to use encryption, at the same time. You can work to spread use of encryption and to spread users' freedom, at the same time, by developing free encryption software. From mmotyka at lsil.com Mon Oct 5 18:11:29 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:11:29 +0800 Subject: IP: Microchip implants to foil VIP kidnaps Message-ID: <361AA2B1.5A8F@lsil.com> > ITALIAN dignitaries who fear being kidnapped are having > microprocessor homing devices planted in their bodies so police can > track them down if they are abducted. > Where can I buy one of these things for my cat? My master password is tatooed inside her upper lip. This brand new GPS system works through a metal barrier? For transport just tuck the subject in the back of an aluminum cargo truck and for long-term storage use a metal wharehouse. Contrary to popular belief there is not a technical solution for every problem. How about -well-paid- bodyguards? Ask an engineer to solve a problem you get Tom Swift and his amazing electrogenerating geodetector. Ask a politician to solve a problem you get a law. Ask a doctor to solve a problem and he'll either cut or medicate. Ask a soldier to solve a problem... And so on... I suppose ridiculous solutions are fine as long as they make money or fame for someone. From petro at playboy.com Mon Oct 5 18:27:50 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:27:50 +0800 Subject: Web TV with 128b exported In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981006110801.0088a430@m7.sprynet.com> Message-ID: At 4:32 PM -0500 10/6/98, William H. Geiger III wrote: > at 11:08 AM, David Honig said: > >>http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/981005/ca_microso_1.html > >>MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif., Oct. 5 /PRNewswire/ -- Microsoft Corp.'s (Nasdaq: >>MSFT - news) WebTV Networks today announced it is the first U.S. company >>to obtain government approval to export nonkey recovery-based >>128-bit-strength encryption for general commercial use. WebTV Networks >>pioneered low-cost access to the Internet, e-mail, financial services and >>electronic shopping through a television set and a standard phone line. > >>The WebTV(TM) Network service, combined with the WebTV-based Internet >>terminals and receivers, is the first communications system permitted by >>the U.S. government to provide strong encryption for general use by >>non-U.S. citizens in Japan and the United Kingdom. Such strong encryption >>allows Japanese and United Kingdom subscribers of WebTV to communicate >>through the WebTV Network (both within national borders and >>internationally) without fear of interception by unauthorized parties. > >I have my doubts on this. I find it highly unlikely that the FEDs would >approve this without some form of GAK built in even if it is not in the >form of "key recovery". I don't. If the chinese can buy access to strong Crypto, then Gates & Crew can get permission to export SSL enabled browsers. -- petro at playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy. petro at bounty.org-----for everthing else. They wouldn't like that. They REALLY Economic speech IS political speech. wouldn't like that. From mgering at ecosystems.net Mon Oct 5 18:34:40 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:34:40 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A28@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com> Jim Choate wrote: > > The only problem is your statement that one can dominate > > "saturable" markets without some artificial "mechanism." > > Who said anything about 'artificial'? I did. I state you cannot have a coercive monopoly without artificial barriers (and hence a free market cannot have a coercive monopoly) and you disagree. I am not sticking any terms where they don't go, you have consistently theorized monopolies can exist in a free market. Perhaps you should re-read my statement and not assume negatives where I clearly did not write them. > talking a free-market, there are *only* two participants; That is a twisted and absolutely unjustified definition of a free market. A free market lacks forceful restriction or prohibition of free [consensual] trade. EXCEPT that which violates individual rights. I will argue that an anarcho-capitalist market that treats force as a commodity is NOT a free market. There can be participants acting as agents, intermediaries and arbiters for the traders. > > If you mean dominate by > > market share, then sure that is possible. > > I mean *dominate* the market. You cannot define a word with itself. What is *dominate* in context of a market, and does that dominance imply the possession of arbitrary power? > > have arbitrary power over the market -- that is the > > definition of a coercive monopoly. > > No, that is the definition of monopoly. The only valid definition, yes. I will gladly accept the invalidation that dominant or exclusive market share necessarily constitute a monopoly, as that does not in itself prove arbitrary power (immunity from market economics). > > You will find that that is not possible without an > > artificial barrier to competition. > > Demonstrate please. The problem with this view is that it > implies that given sufficient time *any* market strategy > will fail. In other words there is no best or efficient > strategy for a given market. There is but ONE market strategy: to price at a point lower than new entrants could sustain their business, and constantly increase productive efficiency and reduce costs. This works great in the short term, especially in emerging industries, but it is statistically improbable for a company to maintain perfection. The market is not static, it is always changing and technology often favors new entrants who are not encumbered with legacy technology. It is less relevant that such a company is unlikely to maintain that position forever, but that such efficient dominance is good for the market. Productive efficiency raises the standard of living. Matt From rah at shipwright.com Mon Oct 5 18:35:00 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:35:00 +0800 Subject: IP: Microchip implants to foil VIP kidnaps Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Delivered-To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com From: wtberry at sprintmail.com To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 20:07:28 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: IP: Microchip implants to foil VIP kidnaps Sender: owner-ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Precedence: list Reply-To: wtberry at sprintmail.com Source: Electronic Telegraph, Issue 1229, 6 October 1998 Microchip implants to foil VIP kidnaps By Bruce Johnston in Rome ITALIAN dignitaries who fear being kidnapped are having microprocessor homing devices planted in their bodies so police can track them down if they are abducted. The microchips - called Sky-Eyes - were originally developed for intelligence use by Israeli researchers. Rome's La Repubblica newspaper described the latest development as a "biological adaptation" of the Global Positioning System, which is already in use to protect luxury cars from being stolen. Sky-Eyes are sold by a company called Gen-Etics, which has patented the device for private use but which is cautious about supplying further details, in order to protect its clients. Sky-Eyes are said to be made of "synthetic and organic fibre". They reportedly run on such a small amount of energy that this can be "borrowed" from the human body. The chip is supposed to be invisible to both the naked eye and to X-rays. A person who carries it is supplied with an eight-digit code by the company. He, or she, is advised to divulge this only to next of kin or a trusted legal representative. In case of the person's disappearance, those in possession of the code are supposed to contact the company's control centre, so that the kidnapped victim's whereabouts may be pinpointed, and the police informed. The Sky-Eye is said to have a margin of error of just 150 yards. Kidnapping is still common in Italy. One recent victim, Giuseppe Soffiantini, an elderly northern industrialist, was wary when asked if he would buy one. At the weekend he said: "As they also know about the discovery, the kidnappers will find a counter system to use against it. They are treacherous." During his long captivity, his kidnappers cut off pieces of his ears and sent them to his family. Mr Soffiantini, was released earlier this year after a �2 million ransom was paid. He said: "But if the microchip worked, then of course I'd get one. � Copyright of Telegraph Group Limited 1998. ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From whgiii at invweb.net Mon Oct 5 18:37:58 1998 From: whgiii at invweb.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:37:58 +0800 Subject: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199810062329.TAA28931@domains.invweb.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In , on 10/06/98 at 05:53 PM, Petro said: >At 2:35 PM -0500 10/6/98, Steve Mynott wrote: >>any true cypherpunk must be a libertarian.. > Libertarians are just cowardly anarchists, they lack the courage of >their convictions to take the last step and eliminate government >altogether. Libertarians are well aware of the need for government, they are also aware of the dangers to personal freedom that governments represent. The goal of the Libertarians is to provide a system that minimizes government and maximizes personal freedom. In the US this system takes the form of a Constitutionally limited government (ie: the US Constitution interpreted as a limiting document not an enabling one). Anarchism does not work. It is a pipe dream much like Communism that only leads to Totalitarianism. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.openpgp.net Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: How do you make Windows faster? Throw it harder! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNhqqCI9Co1n+aLhhAQE9iAP/frmPXAA1ayjsqmoOHvwEeAYRfG4GYegR j87tY3l6NXS9qMlz8wOXcSx78EuDRMT9lK9D4FVRKaEk7xFNjIoAjU9h/BpKOugz HYHOKDnfMo0UtE5WBcTBC9zGYjY0hZL4TquI8ymMe0UmQcUURkvBDg7VGJcI/VIR cH23D1zyHgg= =wFge -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jdobruck at kki.net.pl Mon Oct 5 18:40:45 1998 From: jdobruck at kki.net.pl (Jan Dobrucki) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:40:45 +0800 Subject: camels and bananas, for some reason. In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981005190213.00845510@205.83.192.13> Message-ID: <361AB42A.7D7C7657@kki.net.pl> This camel and banana thing has gone WAY out of cypherpunk lane. This sounds like material for a 'how-to-feed-a-camel-over-long-exposure-to-desert-heat newsgroup' which, surpassingly, just might exist... not? :- ) prove me wrong :- ) About a year ago there was this program about cars on the Discovery Channel... forgot it's detail... anyway, this weird prof. and a bunch of his student wanted to prove that you can make cars with anything... so they got banana peals, cut them into slices and made forms out of them. This did not create the essence of a car, the engine, however they did make the chassis into a very nice bright yellow :- ) ... OUT OF BANANA PEALS <:- ) So next time you eat breakfast, eat a camel ! .. WAIT... I mean a banana ! :- ) Regards, Jan Dobrucki Bill Stewart wrote: > At 02:21 PM 10/5/98 +0200, Raccoon wrote: > >On Mon, 5 Oct 1998, Reeza! wrote: > > > >> At 11:12 PM 10/4/98 +0200, Anonymous wrote: > >> >At 12:59 PM 10/3/98 -0400, Michael Motyka wrote: > >> >>> There is a desert which is 1000 miles across. There is a camel who can > >> >carry > >> >>> 1000 bananas maximum. The camel eats 1 banana per mile travelled. The > >> camel > >> >>> has a total of 3000 bananas to begin with. What is the maximum number of > >> >>> bananas that the camel can get across to the other side uneaten? > >> > >> Are we stipulating that the camel will travel in a straight line? > >> Or will it meander a bit, following the path of least resistanct through > >> the dunes? > > > >Since we are looking for the best possible result (=the most bananans > >moved to the other side), we must assume that the path of least resistance > >equals a straight line. This may be improbable, but it is not impossible! > >Remember that this is maths, and that we're looking for the best possible > >limit. > > No, this isn't maths, this is camels, and they'll give you as much > resistance as they feel like, and *you* may be looking for the most > bananas moved across the desert, but the camel's perfectly happy to > sit here and eat all the bananas here, crossing 0 miles of desert, > or dump you 50 miles out in the desert and come back and eat the > bananas. > > But other than the PERL book, what's it got to do with cypherpunks? > Just that bananas are related to Bill Clinton? > > Thanks! > Bill > Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com > PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 -- Wyslano za posrednictwem bezplatnego serwera KKI Krakowski Komercyjny Internet - http://www.kki.net.pl To jest miejsce na reklame Twojej firmy! From jvb at ssds.com Mon Oct 5 18:48:35 1998 From: jvb at ssds.com (Jim Burnes) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:48:35 +0800 Subject: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... In-Reply-To: <199810061317.IAA07423@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, 6 Oct 1998, Jim Choate wrote: > Hi, > > It occurs to me that there is another potential flaw in current economic > theory and business practice. > > Currently (ala Friedmann) the parties that reap the benefit of a succesful > business are the shareholders, this is currently seen to exclude the > employees in many cases/companies. > Actually not. There are quite a few business that have employees as shareholders. Most shares of companies are reasonably priced and easy enough to get a hold of. Selling them on the other hand is not so straightforward. > This approach undervalues the business worth of the employees commitment to > the business. Sounds Marxist to me. Your percentage of equity in anything is proportional to the risk level you take. The employee risks none of their own capital so cannot legitimately expect to be rewarded with stock. The employee is free to leave at any time and thus discontinue their only investment in the company, their day to day presense. Of course that does not preclude the employer from offering stock as an incentive to long term commitment or as an enticement to stay when the market takes a downturn etc. In that case the employee is then taking a risk -- basically the opportunity cost of moving to a more lucrative situation (one of which is working for himself and becoming an "evil robber baron"). > > A more reasonable approach (and one that might make free-markets more > workable, though not by itself) is to consider the employees shareholders > even if they don't hold a single piece of stock. And no, their paychecks are > not sufficient. Hmmmm. That would work like a charm when it comes to paying dividends. > > Consider, another way to look at a business' goals is "to make every > shareholder a millionare so they don't have to work at anything else". What > business do you know has the specific goal of making their employees (all > the way down to the janitor) sufficiently wealthy from their commitment to > the business so that at some point they don't have to work any more either > (and we are NOT talking about some measly 401k retirement program)? What the business does it hire them so they don't have to risk their own capital. Of course the labor/socialist view is that they are being exploited. I encourage all workers who think the "from each according to their abilities to each according to their needs" model works well to emigrate to Russia. As PJ O'Rourke says, "there they boil stones for soup". Go to China and see what kind of "profit sharing" deal they will make you. Better yet, try to become a prosperous self-employed person. > > What would the impact be to the current business models if we include this > axiomaticaly? > Ask Marx. Apparently you don't think capitalist models work. jim More PJ O'Rourke... "And here is another shock. Professor Samuelson, who wrote the early editions [of "Economics"] by himself, turns out to be almost as much of a goof as my friends and I were in the 1960s. 'Marx was the most influential and perceptive critic of the market economy ever,' he says on page seven. Influential, yes. Marx nearly caused World War III. But perceptive? Samuelson continues: 'Marx was wrong about many things ... but that does not diminish his stature as an important economist.' Well, what would? If Marx was 'wrong about many things' *and* screwed the baby-sitter?" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 5.0i Charset: noconv iQA/AwUBNhouc+lhVGT5JbsfEQJ1zwCgiBtl6sZzHIIsYr7JJKYv6pBpOY4AnRYA mL75zLPm23xtQ7CnmxN7N/BT =+qS1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From rah at shipwright.com Mon Oct 5 19:17:51 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 10:17:51 +0800 Subject: Sad news ... (... or not ;-)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 6:57 PM -0400 on 10/6/98, Petro wrote: > Who owns the patents, Digicash, or Chaum? DigiCash, Inc., of the US of A, not DigiCash BV, of the Netherlands. Cheers, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Mon Oct 5 19:20:08 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 10:20:08 +0800 Subject: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd) Message-ID: <199810061524.KAA07928@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:51:21 -0600 (MDT) > From: Jim Burnes > Subject: Re: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... > > It occurs to me that there is another potential flaw in current economic > > theory and business practice. > > > > Currently (ala Friedmann) the parties that reap the benefit of a succesful > > business are the shareholders, this is currently seen to exclude the > > employees in many cases/companies. > > > > Actually not. There are quite a few business that have employees as > shareholders. Most shares of companies are reasonably priced and > easy enough to get a hold of. Selling them on the other hand is > not so straightforward. This doesn't effect the premise under standard economics that the responsibility of managers is to the shareholders *exclusively* in regards profits and business operations. What I am positing is the potential effects of including employees as part of that sphere of responsibility *without* explicit stock holding by the emplyees. You're trying to turn apples into oranges. [other stuff deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From mnorton at cavern.uark.edu Mon Oct 5 19:26:59 1998 From: mnorton at cavern.uark.edu (Mac Norton) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 10:26:59 +0800 Subject: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19981005124212.00a094c0@mail.ewol.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Oct 1998, me wrote: > The above concept is embraced by a vast number of the planets population > and illustrates the ability of rationality to control perception. The shorthand presently in vogue is "compartmentalization." We used to call it cognitive disonance. Seems to this observer that both sides of this thread are deep into it. I stay on this list because, just maybe, one of these days, one of you guys is gonna crack the code of anarchy v. contract enforcement. Until then, it's cogdis. MacN From james at wired.com Mon Oct 5 19:40:03 1998 From: james at wired.com (James Glave) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 10:40:03 +0800 Subject: Lycos Acquires Wired Digital Message-ID: <199810061540.IAA20105@hardly.hotwired.com> http://www.wired.com/news/news/business/story/15437.html Lycos Acquires Wired Digital 6:00 a.m. 6.Oct.98.PDT In a move that continues the trend of consolidation in the Internet industry, Web search and community firm Lycos has acquired Wired Digital, the parent company of Wired News, for approximately US$83 million in Lycos stock. Lycos said in a statement that the combined traffic of both companies will allow Lycos, already the second most visited Web index service, to reach more than 40 percent of Web users. Tuesday's acquisition coincides with the introduction of "The Lycos Network," a collection of service, news, and community sites that now includes Wired Digital properties Wired News, the HotBot search engine, and the Webmonkey developer site, in addition to existing Lycos sites Lycos.com, WhoWhere, Tripod, and others. According to Relevant Knowledge, Wired Digital attracts nearly five million unique visitors a month. The acquisition is scheduled to close by the end of the calendar year and is subject to Wired shareholder approval. Lycos (LCOS) will also assume Wired Digital's stock option plan. Under the deal, Wired Digital will continue to operate from its San Francisco, California, office as a business unit of Lycos, and Beth Vanderslice, president of Wired Digital, will report to Lycos CEO Bob Davis. The Wired Digital brands will remain distinct operating units of Lycos, which Lycos said would allow the company to reach multiple Web audience segments. For example, Lycos said in a statement that Wired Digital's HotBot search engine attracts a "tech-savvy Web veteran," while Lycos.com serves a broader audience. According to Media Metrix, the two search engines attract distinct audiences, with only 20 percent overlap between the two. The Lycos Network and Wired Digital have already taken steps to share each other's content and services. Wired News is available on the headline page of Lycos.com, while Lycos' Angelfire home pages and MailCity e-mail applications are now being offered to HotBot users. Lycos search offers links to HotBot and other Wired Digital properties through top keyword searches. Further, Webmonkey's Web developer tutorials and resources will be available to Tripod and Lycos.com homepage communities. In May of this year, Wired Ventures, the former parent company of Wired Digital, sold Wired magazine to Advance Magazine Publishers. Copyright � 1994-98 Wired Digital Inc. All rights reserved. James Glave, News Editor, Wired News, http://www.wired.com (415) 276-8430 From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Mon Oct 5 19:44:12 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 10:44:12 +0800 Subject: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd) Message-ID: <199810070043.TAA11010@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 19:22:31 -0500 (CDT) > From: Mac Norton > Subject: RE: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd) > that both sides of this thread are deep into it. I stay on this > list because, just maybe, one of these days, one of you guys > is gonna crack the code of anarchy v. contract enforcement. Until > then, it's cogdis. What makes you thing anarchy eliminates contracts and the concomitent need for enforcement? The question is: "Who does the contract enforcement and arbitrage?" ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From guy at panix.com Mon Oct 5 20:25:29 1998 From: guy at panix.com (Information Security) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 11:25:29 +0800 Subject: Web TV with 128b exported Message-ID: <199810070119.VAA23135@panix7.panix.com> > From: SDN > William H. Geiger III wrote: > > David Honig said: > > >http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/981005/ca_microso_1.html > > > > >MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif., Oct. 5 /PRNewswire/ -- Microsoft Corp.'s (Nasdaq: > > >MSFT - news) WebTV Networks today announced it is the first U.S. company > > >to obtain government approval to export nonkey recovery-based > > >128-bit-strength encryption for general commercial use. WebTV Networks > > >pioneered low-cost access to the Internet, e-mail, financial services and > > >electronic shopping through a television set and a standard phone line. > > > > I have my doubts on this. I find it highly unlikely that the FEDs would > > approve this without some form of GAK built in even if it is not in the > > form of "key recovery". > > It's probably a lot closer to the "private doorbell" scenario. The only > thing that a WebTV unit will communicate with is the WebTV service (or > the Japanese variant thereof). > > Since all traffic goes through a point that will likely cooperate with > law enforcement (and has remote control of the boxes, too.), this doesn't > represent much of a loosening in the export controls. Hmmm... # http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/981005/ca_microso_1.html # # ...without fear of interception by unauthorized parties. Said with a lawyer's precision. # http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/981005/ca_microso_1.html # # William Reinsch, U.S. undersecretary for export administration: # ``The WebTV Network provides secure communications for its # customers and partners without posing undue risks to # national security and law enforcement.'' Either it is interceptable and decodable or it isn't. If it isn't, then software browsers (Netscape/IE) should be allowed to do it too. Perhaps Declan could investigate and get a story out of it. ---- Can someone with control of a 128-bit HTTP server see if it can identify 128-bit keys from WebTV terminals? ---guy From cmcurtin at interhack.net Mon Oct 5 20:37:29 1998 From: cmcurtin at interhack.net (Matt Curtin) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 11:37:29 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) In-Reply-To: <199810051105.HAA13894@germs.dyn.ml.org> Message-ID: <864sthb1bv.fsf@strangepork.interhack.net> Richard Stallman writes: > I beg your pardon, but this is no mistake. I'm well aware of the > people who argue for donating code to companies "so it will be more > widely used." This is really an interesting, and subtle, point. The goals might well be different, but I suspect they're more complementary than most of us immediately realize. Specifically, I'm unconvinced that letting people "steal" our code really advances the cypherpunk goal of good crypto everywhere (GCE...a new TLA?). Proprietary implementations, or proprietary builds of free or public domain might well claim to be high quality implementations of well trusted algorithms. But without access to the source, how do we know? What if someone makes an RPM of PGP, for example, with a "feature" to fire your keys off to Big Brother for "backup" and/or "safe keeping"? -- Matt Curtin cmcurtin at interhack.net http://www.interhack.net/people/cmcurtin/ From jvb at ssds.com Mon Oct 5 21:18:09 1998 From: jvb at ssds.com (Jim Burnes) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 12:18:09 +0800 Subject: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810061524.KAA07928@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Oct 1998, Jim Choate wrote: > Forwarded message: > > > Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:51:21 -0600 (MDT) > > From: Jim Burnes > > Subject: Re: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... > > > > It occurs to me that there is another potential flaw in current economic > > > theory and business practice. > > > > > > Currently (ala Friedmann) the parties that reap the benefit of a succesful > > > business are the shareholders, this is currently seen to exclude the > > > employees in many cases/companies. > > > > > > > Actually not. There are quite a few business that have employees as > > shareholders. Most shares of companies are reasonably priced and > > easy enough to get a hold of. Selling them on the other hand is > > not so straightforward. > > This doesn't effect the premise under standard economics that the > responsibility of managers is to the shareholders *exclusively* in regards > profits and business operations. > Hmmm. You imply that the employees and employers interests are not the same. The whole idea is to make a profit. Out of those profits the employees are payed the salaries they use to keep their families in beer and bedclothes. What other sort of interest do you suggest the company should have? They already get significant benefits in insurance etc. Many employees already have the option to buy shares. Certainly this is the case in publically traded companies -- many publically traded companies offer these same shares at a discount to employees. Any other sort of interest would simply induce a market distortion in the cost of investment capital. The market detects socialism as damage and routes around it. The entire market would never do this voluntarily, so by definition any distortion would have to be induced in a centrally managed economy. By definition socialism. But look at the bright side. We already have people who think they can centrally manage the economy. They've certainly made inroads. jim From dan at nixon.ocis.temple.edu Mon Oct 5 21:50:39 1998 From: dan at nixon.ocis.temple.edu (dan at nixon.ocis.temple.edu) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 12:50:39 +0800 Subject: camels and bananas, for some reason. In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981006004529.00827b20@idiom.com> Message-ID: At 12:59 PM 10/3/98 -0400, Michael Motyka wrote: > There is a desert which is 1000 miles across. There is a camel who can > carry 1000 bananas maximum. The camel eats 1 banana per mile travelled. > The camel has a total of 3000 bananas to begin with. What is the maximum > number of bananas that the camel can get across to the other side > uneaten? I had to solve this problem before, don't remember specifics (of the whole process that is), but to get the bananas across, you couldn't just carry them straight through, you had to drop some off, i.e. carry 1000 bananas, walk 333 miles (eating 333 bananas), drop off 334, walk back (finishing off the remaining ones), then when you got to that point again, (the 333 mark) you would have 1000 again... the answer was 533+(1/3) iirc From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Mon Oct 5 21:59:56 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 12:59:56 +0800 Subject: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd) Message-ID: <199810061803.NAA08378@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 11:19:54 -0600 (MDT) > From: Jim Burnes > Subject: Re: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd) > Hmmm. You imply that the employees and employers interests are not > the same. Obviously this so. > The whole idea is to make a profit. There is MUCH more involved than simply making a profit. [irrelevant material deleted] > Any other sort of interest would simply induce a market distortion > in the cost of investment capital. Demonstrate please. > The market detects socialism as damage and routes around it. Whoa horsey. I didn't say a damn thing about any third party regulatory agency getting invovled here. Don't start trying to change the rules in the middle of the game. > The entire market would never do this voluntarily, so by definition any > distortion would have to be induced in a centrally managed economy. Demonstrate. > By definition socialism. Wrong. Socialism is the belief that property is best managed and owned by the government. This is within the context of a free market. This means that the *ONLY* two parties involved are the producers and consumers. I am discussing an alternative approach to business management. Fascism is the belief that property should be owned by private individuals but managed by governments. Capitalism is the belief that property should be owned and managed by the individual. Note that this definition doesn't prevent 3rd party regulatory bodies, but they neither own or manage the activity, only limit its' scope. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From james at wired.com Mon Oct 5 22:04:13 1998 From: james at wired.com (James Glave) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:04:13 +0800 Subject: Web TV with 128b exported In-Reply-To: <199810070119.VAA23135@panix7.panix.com> Message-ID: <199810070258.TAA00770@hardly.hotwired.com> ># http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/981005/ca_microso_1.html ># ># William Reinsch, U.S. undersecretary for export administration: ># ``The WebTV Network provides secure communications for its ># customers and partners without posing undue risks to ># national security and law enforcement.'' > >Either it is interceptable and decodable or it isn't. > >If it isn't, then software browsers (Netscape/IE) should >be allowed to do it too. > >Perhaps Declan could investigate and get a story out of it. He is off the grid until next week, at which point he starts working for Wired News. We'l try to get something on this for Wednesday. jtg James Glave, News Editor, Wired News, http://www.wired.com (415) 276-8430 From 0wned at i.own.playboy.net Mon Oct 5 22:05:29 1998 From: 0wned at i.own.playboy.net (Rod Munch) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:05:29 +0800 Subject: Netscape e-mail 128 bit Encryption Message-ID: <361AD5E9.7D70@i.own.playboy.net> I just wantid to know if there is any to Crack The Encryption in Netscapes e-mail program for sending messages cause my computer teacher thinks hes all big and bad cause no one can read his shit so i want to show him up. From nobody at replay.com Mon Oct 5 22:35:03 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:35:03 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199810061836.UAA27377@replay.com> At 08:31 PM 10/5/98 -0700, Alan Olsen wrote: >>Why are bananas quantized in the presense of camels? Is this >>a quantum-computing thing? > >No, it's a Perl thing. ]:> > You need to download the Camel extension library.. From vznuri at netcom.com Mon Oct 5 22:38:30 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:38:30 +0800 Subject: money parable Message-ID: <199810070334.UAA26974@netcom13.netcom.com> ------- Forwarded Message Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 23:30:57 +0000 From: Paul Swann Subject: I Want The Earth Plus 5% I Want The Earth Plus 5% Fabian was excited as he once more rehearsed his speech for the crowd certain to turn up tomorrow. He had always wanted prestige and power and now his dreams were going to come true. He was a craftsman working with silver and gold, making jewelry and ornaments, but he became dissatisfied with working for a living. He needed excitement, a challenge, and now his plan was ready to begin. For generations the people used the barter system. A man supported his own family by providing all their needs or else he specialised in a particular trade. Whatever surpluses he might have from his own production, he exchanged or swapped for the surplus of others. Market day was always noise and dusty, yet people looked forward to the shouting and waving, and especially the companionship. It used to be a happy place, but now there were too many people, too much arguing. There was no time for chatting - a better system was needed. Generally, the people had been happy, and enjoyed the fruits of their work. In each community a simple Government had been formed to make sure that each person's freedoms and rights were protected and that no man was forced to do anything against his will by any other man, or any group of men. This was the Government's one and only purpose and each Governor was voluntarily supported by the local community who elected him. However, market day was the one problem they could not solve. Was a knife worth one or two baskets of corn? Was a cow worth more than a wagon � and so on. No one could think of a better system. Fabian had advertised, "I have the solution to our bartering problems, and I invite everyone to a public meeting tomorrow." The next day there was a great assembly in the town square and Fabian explained all about the new system which he called "money". It sounded good. "How are we to start?" the people asked. "The gold which I fashion into ornaments and jewelry is an excellent metal. It does not tarnish or rust, and will last a long time. I will make some gold into coins and we shall call each coin a dollar." He explained how values would work, and that "money" would be really a medium for exchange - a much better system than bartering. One of the Governors questioned, "Some people can dig gold and make coins for themselves", he said. "This would be most unfair", Fabian was ready with the answer. "Only those coins approved by the Government can be used, and these will have special marking stamped on them." This seemed reasonable and it was proposed that each man be given an equal number. "But I deserve the most," said the candle-maker. "Everyone uses my candles." "No", said the farmer, "without food there is no life, surely we should get the most." And so the bickering continued. Fabian let them argue for a while and finally he said, "Since none of you can agree, I suggest you obtain the number you require from me. There will be no limit, except for your ability to repay. The more you obtain, the more you must repay in one year's time. "And what will you receive?" the people asked. "Since I am providing a service, that is, the money supply, I am entitled to payment for my work. Let us say that for every 100 pieces you obtain, you repay me 105 for every year that you owe the debt. The 5 will be my charge, and I shall call this charge interest." There seemed to be no other way, and besides, 5% seemed little enough charge. "Come back next Friday and we will begin." Fabian wasted no time. He made coins day and night, and at the end of the week he was ready. The people were queued up at his shop, and after the coins were inspected and approved by the Governors the system commenced. Some borrowed only a few and they went off to try the new system. They found money to be marvelous, and they soon valued everything in gold coins or dollars. The value they placed on everything was called a "price", and the price mainly depended on the amount of work required to produce it. If it took a lot of work the price was high, but if it was produced with little effort it was quite inexpensive. In one town lived Alan, who was the only watchmaker. His prices were high because the customers were willing to pay just to own one of his watches. Then another man began making watches and offered them at a lower price in order to get sales. Alan was forced to lower his prices, and in no time at all prices came down, so that both men were striving to give the best quality at the lowest price. This was genuine free competition. It was the same with builders, transport operators, accountants, farmers, in fact, in every endeavour. The customers always chose what they felt was the best deal - they had freedom of choice. There was no artificial protection such as licences or tariffs to prevent other people from going into business. The standard of living rose, and before long the people wondered how they had ever done without money. At the end of the year, Fabian left his shop and visited all the people who owed him money. Some had more than they borrowed, but this meant that others had less, since there were only a certain number of coins issued in the first place. Those who had more than they borrowed paid back each 100 plus the extra 5, but still had to borrow again to carry on. The others discovered for the first time that they had a debt. Before he would lend them more money, Fabian took a mortgage over some of their assets, and everyone went away once moreto try and get those extra 5 coins whichalways seemed so hard to find. No one realised that as a whole, the country could never get out of debt until all the coins were repaid, but even then, there were those extra 5 on each 100 which had never been lent out at all. No one but Fabian could see that it was impossible to pay the interest - the extra money had never been issued, therefore someone had to miss out. It was true that Fabian spent some coins, but he couldn't possibly spend anything like 5% of the total economy on himself. There were thousands of people and Fabian was only one. Besides, he was still a goldsmith making a comfortable living. At the back of his shop Fabian had a strongroom and people found it convenient to leave some of their coins with him for safekeeping. He charged a small fee depending on the amount of money, and the time it was left with him. He would give the owner receipts for the deposit. When a person went shopping, he did not normally carry a lot of gold coins. He would give the shopkeeper one of the receipts to the value of the goods he wanted to buy. Shopkeepers recognised the receipt as being genuine and accepted it with the idea of taking it to Fabian and collecting the appropriate amount in coins. The receipts passed from hand to hand instead of the gold itself being transferred. The people had great faith in the receipts - they accepted them as being as good as coins. Before long, Fabian noticed that it was quite unusual for anyone to actually call for their gold coins. He thought to himself, "Here I am in possession of all this gold and I am still a hard working craftsman. It doesn't make sense. Why there are dozens of people who would be glad to pay me interest for the use of this gold which is lying here and rarely called for. It is true, the gold is not mine - but it is in my possession, which is all that matters. I hardly need to make any coins at all, I can use some of the coins stored in the vault." At first he was very cautious, only loaning a few at a time, and then only on tremendous security. But gradually he became bolder, and larger amounts were loaned. One day, a large loan was requested. Fabian suggested, "Instead of carrying all these coins we can make a deposit in your name, and then I shall give you several receipts to the value of the coins." The borrower agreed, and off he went with a bunch of receipts. He had obtained a loan, yet the gold remained in the strong-room. After the client left, Fabian smiled. He could have his cake and eat it too. He could "lend" gold and still keep it in his possession. Friends, strangers and even enemies needed funds to carry out their businesses - and so long as they could produce security, they could borrow as much as they needed. By simply writing out receipts Fabian was able to "lend" money to several times the value of gold in his strong-room, and he was not even the owner of it. Everything was safe so long as the real owners didn't call for their gold and the confidence of the people was maintained. He kept a book showing the debits and credits for each person - the lending business was proving to be very lucrative indeed. His social standing in the community was increasing almost as fast as his wealth. He was becoming a man of importance, he commanded respect. In matters of finance, his very word was like a sacred pronouncement. Goldsmiths from other towns became curious about his activities and one day they called to see him. He told them what he was doing, but was very careful to emphasize the need for secrecy. If their plan was exposed, the scheme would fail, so they agreed to form their own secret alliance. Each returned to his own town and began to operate as Fabian had taught. People now accepted the receipts as being as good as gold itself, and many receipts were deposited for safe keeping in the same way as coins. When a merchant wished to pay another for goods, he simply wrote a short note instructing Fabian to transfer money from his account to that of the second merchant. It took Fabian only a few minutes to adjust the figures. This new system became very popular, and the instruction notes were called "checks". Late one night, the goldsmiths had another secret meeting and Fabian revealed a new plan. The next day they called a meeting with all the Governors, and Fabian began. "The receipts we issue have become very popular. No doubt, most of you Governors are using them and you find them very convenient." They nodded in agreement and wondered what the problem was. "Well", he continued, "some receipts are being copied by counterfeiters. This practice must be stopped." The Governors became alarmed. "What can we do?" they asked. Fabian replied, "My suggestion is this - first of all, let it be the Government's job to print new notes on a special paper with very intricate designs, and then each note to be signed by the chief Governor. We goldsmiths will be happy to pay the printing costs, as it will save us a lot of time writing out receipts". The Governors reasoned, "Well, it is our job to protect the people against counterfeiters and the advice certainly seems like a good idea." So they agreed to print the notes. "Secondly," Fabian said, "some people have gone prospecting and are making their own gold coins. I suggest that you pass a law so that any person who finds gold nuggets must hand them in. Of course, they will be reimbursed with notes and coins." The idea sounded good and without too much thought about it, they printed a large number of crisp new notes. Each note had a value printed on it - $1, $2, $5, $10 etc. The small printing costs were paid by the goldsmiths. The notes were much easier to carry and they soon became accepted by the people. Despite their popularity however, these new notes and coins were used for only 10% of transactions. The records showed that the check system accounted for 90% of all business. The next part of his plan commenced. Until now, people were paying Fabian to guard their money. In order to attract more money into the vault Fabian offered to pay depositors 3% interest on their money. Most people believed that he was re-lending their money out to borrowers at 5%, and his profit was the 2% difference. Besides, the people didn't question him as getting 3% was far better than paying to have the money guarded. The volume of savings grew and with the additional money in the vaults, Fabian was able to lend $200, $300, $400 sometimes up to $900 for every $100 in notes and coins that he held in deposit. He had to be careful not to exceed this nine to one ratio, because one person in ten did require the notes and coins for use. If there was not enough money available when required, people would become suspicious, especially as their deposit books showed how much they had deposited. Nevertheless, on the $900 in book figures that Fabian loaned out by writing checks himself, he was able to demand up to $45 in interest, i.e. 5% on $900. When the loan plus interest was repaid, i.e. $945, the $900 was cancelled out in the debit column and Fabian kept the $45 interest. He was therefore quite happy to pay $3 interest on the original $100 deposited which had never left the vaults at all. This meant that for every $100 he held in deposits, it was possible to make 42% profit, most people believing he was only making 2%. The other goldsmiths were doing the same thing. They created money out of nothing at the stroke of a pen, and then charged interest on top of it. True, they didn't coin money, the Government actually printed the notes and coins and gave it to the goldsmiths to distribute. Fabian's only expense was the small printing fee. Still, they were creating credit money out of nothing and charging interest on top of it. Most people believed that the money supply was a Government operation. They also believed that Fabian was lending them the money that someone else had deposited, but it was very strange that no one's deposits ever decreased when a loan was advanced. If everyone had tried to withdraw their deposits at once, the fraud would have been exposed. When a loan was requested in notes or coins, it presented no problem. Fabian merely explained to the Government that the increase in population and production required more notes, and these he obtained for the small printing fee. One day a thoughtful man went to see Fabian. "This interest charge is wrong", he said. "For every $100 you issue, you are asking $105 in return. The extra $5 can never be paid since it doesn't exist. Farmers produce food, industry manufacturers goods, and so on, but only you produce money. Suppose there are only two businessmen in the whole country and we employ everyone else. We borrow $100 each, we pay $90 out in wages and expenses and allow $10 profit (our wage). That means the total purchasing power is $90 + $10 twice, i.e. $200. Yet to pay you we must sell all our produce for $210. If one of us succeeds and sells all his produce for $105, the other man can only hope to get $95. Also, part of his goods cannot be sold, as there is no money left to buy them. He will still owe you $10 and can only repay this by borrowing more. The system is impossible." The man continued, "Surely you should issue 105, i.e. 100 to me and 5 to you to spend. This way there would be 105 in circulation, and the debt can be repaid." Fabian listened quietly and finally said, "Financial economics is a deep subject, my boy, it takes years of study. Let me worry about these matters, and you look after yours. You must become more efficient, increase your production, cut down on your expenses and become a better businessman. I am always willing to help in these matters." The man went away still unconvinced. There was something wrong with Fabian's operations and he felt that his questions had been avoided. Yet, most people respected Fabian's word - "He is the expert, the others must be wrong. Look how the country has developed, how our production has increased - we must be better off." To cover the interest on the money they had borrowed, merchants were forced to raise their prices. Wage earners complained that wages were too low. Employers refused to pay higher wages, claiming that they would be ruined. Farmers could not get a fair price for their produce. Housewives complained that food was getting too dear. And finally some people went on strike, a thing previously unheard of. Others had become poverty stricken and their friends and relatives could not afford to help them. Most had forgotten the real wealth all around - the fertile soils, the great forests, the minerals and cattle. They could think only of the money which always seemed so scarce. But they never questioned the system. They believed the Government was running it. A few had pooled their excess money and formed "lending" or "finance" companies. They could get 6% or more this way, which was better than the 3% Fabian paid, but they could only lend out money they owned - they did not have this strange power of being able to create money out of nothing by merely writing figures in books. These finance companies worried Fabian and his friends somewhat, so they quickly set up a few companies of their own. Mostly, they bought the others out before they got going. In no time, all the finance companies were owned by them, or under their control. The economic situation got worse. The wage earners were convinced that the bosses were making too much profit. The bosses said that their workers were too lazy and weren't doing an honest day's work, and everyone was blaming everyone else.The Governors could not come up with an answer and besides, the immediate problem seemed to be to help the poverty stricken. They started up welfare schemes and made laws forcing people to contribute to them. This made many people angry - they believed in the old-fashioned idea of helping one's neighbour by voluntary effort. "These laws are nothing more than legalised robbery. To take something off a person against his will, regardless of the purpose for which it is to be used, is no different to stealing." But each man felt helpless and was afraid of the jail sentence which was threatened for failing to pay. These welfare schemes gave some relief, but before long the problem was back and more money was needed to cope. The cost of these schemes rose higher and higher and the size of the Government grew. Most of the Governors were sincere men trying to do their best. They didn't like asking for more money from their people and finally, they had no choice but to borrow money from Fabian and his friends. They had no idea how they were going to repay. Parents could no longer afford to pay teachers for their children. They couldn't pay doctors. And transport operators were going out of business. One by one the government was forced to take these operations over. Teachers, doctors and many others became public servants. Few obtained satisfaction in their work. They were given a reasonable wage, but they lost their identity. They became small cogs in a giant machine. There was no room for personal initiative, little recognition for effort, their income was fixed and advancement came only when a superior retired or died. In desperation, the governors decided to seek Fabian's advice. They considered him very wise and he seemed to know how to solve money matters. He listened to them explain all their problems, and finally he answered, "Many people cannot solve their own problems - they need someone to do it for them. Surely you agree that most people have the right to be happy and to be provided with the essentials of life. One of our great sayings is "all men are equal" - is it not?" Well, the only way to balance things up is to take the excess wealth from the rich and give it to the poor. Introduce a system of taxation. The more a man has, the more he must pay. Collect taxes from each person according to his ability, and give to each according to his need. Schools and hospitals should be free for those who cannot afford them �" He gave them a long talk on high sounding ideals and finished up with, "Oh, by the way, don't forget you owe me money. You've been borrowing now for quite some time. The least I can do to help, is for you to just to pay me the interest. We'll leave the capital debt owing, just pay me the interest." They went away, and without giving Fabian's philosophies any real thought, they introduced the graduated income tax - the more you earn, the higher your tax rate. No one liked this, but they either paid the taxes or went to jail. Merchants were forced once again to raise their prices. Wage earners demanded higher wages forcing many employers out of business, or to replace men with machinery. This caused additional unemployment and forced the Government to introduce further welfare and handout schemes. Tariffs and other protection devices were introduced to keep some industries going just to provide employment. A few people wondered if the purpose of the production was to produce goods or merely to provide employment. As things got worse, they tried wage control, price control, and all sorts of controls. The Government tried to get more money through sales tax, payroll tax and all sorts of taxes. Someone noted that from the wheat farmer right through to the housewife, there were over 50 taxes on a loaf of bread. "Experts" arose and some were elected to Government, but after each yearly meeting they came back with almost nothing achieved, except for the news that taxes were to be "restructured", but overall the total tax always increased. Fabian began to demand his interest payments, and a larger and larger portion of the tax money was being needed to pay him. Then came party politics - the people started arguing about which group of Governors could best solve the problems. They argued about personalities, idealism, party labels, everything except the real problem. The councils were getting into trouble. In one town the interest on the debt exceeded the amount of rates which were collected in a year. Throughout the land the unpaid interest kept increasing - interest was charged on unpaid interest. Gradually much of the real wealth of the country came to be owned or controlled by Fabian and his friends and with it came greater control over people. However, the control was not yet complete. They knew that the situation would not be secure until every person was controlled. Most people opposing the systems could be silenced by financial pressure, or suffer public ridicule. To do this Fabian and his friends purchased most of the newspapers, T.V. and radio stations and he carefully selected people to operate them. Many of these people had a sincere desire to improve the world, but they never realised how they were being used. Their solutions always dealt with the effects of the problem, never the cause. There were several different newspapers - one for the right wing, one for the left wing, one for the workers, one for the bosses, and so on. It didn't matter much which one you believed in, so long as you didn't think about the real problem. Fabian's plan was almost at its completion - - - the whole country was in debt to him. Through education and the media, he had control of people's minds. They were able to think and believe only what he wanted them to. After a man has far more money than he can possibly spend for pleasure, what is left to excite him? For those with a ruling class mentality, the answer is power - raw power over other human beings. The idealists were used in the media and in Government, but the real controllers that Fabian sought were those of the ruling class mentality. Most of the goldsmiths had become this way. They knew the feeling of great wealth, but it no longer satisfied them. They needed challenge and excitement, and power over the masses was the ultimate game. They believed they were superior to all others. "It is our right and duty to rule. The masses don't know what is good for them. They need to be rallied and organised. To rule is our birthright." Throughout the land Fabian and his friends owned many lending offices. True, they were privately and separately owned. In theory they were in competition with each other, but in reality they were working very closely together. After persuading some of the Governors, they set up an institution which they called the Money Reserve Centre. They didn't even use their own money to do this - they created credit against part of the money out of the people's deposits. This Institution gave the outward appearance of regulating the money supply and being a Government operation, but strangely enough, no Governor or public servant was ever allowed to be on the Board of Directors. The Government no longer borrowed directly from Fabian, but began to use a system of I.O.U.'s to the Money Reserve Centre. The security offered was the estimated revenue from next year's taxes. This was in line with Fabian's plan - removing suspicion from himself to an apparent Government operation. Yet, behind the scenes, he was still in control. Indirectly, Fabian had such control over the Government that they were forced to do his bidding. He boasted, "Let me control the nation's money and I care not who makes its laws." It didn't matter much which group of Governors were elected. Fabian was in control of the money, the life blood of the nation. The Government obtained the money, but interest was always charged on every loan. More and more was going out in welfare and handout schemes, and it was not long before the Government found it difficult to even repay the interest, let alone the capital. And yet there were people who still asked the question, "Money is a man-made system. Surely it can be adjusted to serve, not to rule?" But these people became fewer and their voices were lost in the mad scrabble for the non-existent interest. The adminstrations changed, the party labels changed, but the major policies continued. Regardless of which Government was in "power", Fabian's ultimate goal was brought closer each year. The people's policies meant nothing. They were being taxed to the limit, they could pay no more. Now the time was ripe for Fabian's final move. 10% of the money supply was still in the form of notes and coins. This had to be abolished in such a way as not to arouse suspicion. While the people used cash, they were free to buy and sell as they chose - they still had some control over their own lives. But it was not always safe to carry notes and coins. Checks were not accepted outside one's local community, and therefore a more convenient system was looked forward to. Once again Fabian had the answer. His organisation issued everyone with a little plastic card showing the person's name, photograph and an identification number. When this card was presented anywhere, the storekeeper phoned the central computer to check the credit rating. If it was clear, the person could buy what he wanted up to a certain amount. At first people were allowed to spend a small amount on credit, and if this was repaid within a month, no interest was charged. This was fine for the wage earner, but what businessman could even begin? He had to set up machinery, manufacture the goods, pay wages etc. and sell all his goods and repay the money. If he exceeded one month, he was charged a 1.5% for every month the debt was owed. This amounted to over 18% per years. Businessmen had no option but to add the 18% onto the selling price. Yet this extra money or credit (the 18%) had not been loaned out to anyone. Throughout the country, businessmen were given the impossible task of repaying $118 for every $100 they borrowed - but the extra $18 had never been created at all. Yet Fabian and his friends increased their standing in society. They were regarded as pillars of respectability. Their pronouncements on finance and economics were accepted with almost religious conviction. Under the burden of ever increasing taxes, many small businesses collapsed. Special licenses were needed for various operations, so that the remaining ones found it very difficult to operate. Fabian owned and controlled all of the big companies which had hundreds of subsidiaries. These appeared to be in competition with each other, yet he controlled them all. Eventually all competitors were forced out of business. Plumbers, panel beaters, electricians and most other small industries suffered the same fate - they were swallowed up by Fabian's giant companies which all had Government protections. Fabian wanted the plastic cards to eliminate notes and coins. His plan was that when all notes were withdrawn, only businesses using the computer card system would be able to operate. He planned that eventually some people would misplace their cards and be unable to buy or sell anything until a proof of identify was made. He wanted a law to be passed which would give him ultimate control - a law forcing everyone to have their identification number tattooed onto their hand. The number would be visible only under a special light, linked to a computer. Every computer would be linked to a giant central computer so that Fabian could know everything about everyone. ________________________________________________________ The story you have read is of course, fiction. But if you found it to be disturbingly close to the truth and would like to know who Fabian is in real life, a good starting point is a study on the activities of the English goldsmiths in the 16th & 17th centuries. For example, The Bank of England began in 1694. King William of Orange was in financial difficulties as a result of a war with France. The Goldsmiths "lent him" 1.2 million pounds (a staggering amount in those days) with certain conditions: a.The interest rate was to be 8%. It must be remembered that Magna Carta stated that the charging or collecting of interest carried the death penalty. b.The King was to grant the goldsmiths a charter for the bank which gave them the right to issue credit. Prior to this, their operations of issuing receipts for more money than they held in deposits was totally illegal. The charter made it legal. In 1694 William Patterson obtained the Charter for the Bank of England. � Larry Hannigan, Australia ~Quotations~ Encyclopaedia Britannica, 14th Edition - "Banks create credit. It is a mistake to suppose that bank credit is created to any extent by the payment of money into the banks. A loan made by a bank is a clear addition to the amount of money in the community." ~ Lord Acton, Lord Chief Justice of England, 1875 - "The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the People v. The Banks." ~ Mr Reginald McKenna, when Chairman of the Midland Bank in London - "I am afraid that ordinary citizens will not like to be told that the banks can, and do, create and destroy money. And they who control the credit of the nation direct the policy of governments, and hold in the hollow of their hands the destiny of the people. ~ Mr Phillip A. Benson, President of the American Bankers' Association, June 8 1939 - "There is no more direct way to capture control of a nation than through its credit (money) system." ~ USA Banker's Magazine, August 25 1924 - "Capital must protect itself in every possible manner by combination and legislation. Debts must be collected, bonds and mortgages must be foreclosed as rapidly as possible. When, through a process of law, the common people lose their homes they will become more docile and more easily governed through the influence of the strong arm of government, applied by a central power of wealth under control of leading financiers. This truth is well known among our principal men now engaged in forming an imperialism of Capital to govern the world. By dividing the voters through the political party system, we can get them to expend their energies in fighting over questions of no importance. Thus by discreet action we can secure for ourselves what has been so well planned and so successfully accomplished." ~ Sir Denison Miller - During an interview in 1921, when he was asked if he, through the Commonwealth Bank, had financed Australia during the First World War for $700 million, he replied; "Such was the case, and I could have financed the country for a further like sum had the war continued." Asked if that amount was available for productive purposes in this time of peace, he answered "Yes". ~ >From "Hand Over Our Loot, No. 2, by Len Clampett: "There are four things that must be available for paid work to take place: *The work to be done. *The materials to do the work. *The labor to do the work. *The money to pay for the work to be done. If any of those four things are missing, no paid work can take place. It is a naturally self-regulating system. If there is work to be done, and the material is available and the labour willing, all we have to do is create the money. Quite simple." Ask yourself why it was that depressions happened. All that went missing from the community was the money to buy goods and services. The labour was still available. The work to be done was still there. The materials had not disappeared, and the goods were readily available in the shops, or could be produced but for the want of money. ~ Extract from a letter written by Rothschild Bros of London to a New York firm of bankers on 25 June 1863: "The few who can understand the System (Cheque Money and Credits) will either be so interested in its profits, or so dependent on its favours, that there will be no opposition from that class. While on the other hand, the great body of people mentally incapable of comprehending the tremendous advantage that capital derives from the system, will bear its burdens without complaint and perhaps without even suspecting that the system is inimical (hostile, hurtful) to their interests. ~ The following quotation was reprinted in the Idaho Leader, USA, 26 August 1924, and has been read into Hansard twice: by John Evans MP, in 1926, and by M.D. Cowan M.P., in the Session of 1930-1931. In 1891 a confidential circular was sent to American bankers and their agents, containing the following statements: "We authorise our loan agents in the western States to loan our funds on real estate, to fall due on September 1st 1894, and at no time thereafter. On September 1, 1894, we will not renew our loans under any consideration. On September 1st we will demand our money - we will foreclose and become mortgagees in possession. We can take two-thirds of the farms west of the Mississippi and thousands of them east of the great Mississippi as well, at our own price. We may as well own three-fourths of the farms of the west and the money of the country. Then the farmers will become tenants, as in England." ~ >From "Hand Over Our Loot, No. 2" "In the United States, the issuing of money is controlled by the Federal Reserve Board. This is not a government department but a board of private bankers.Most of us would believe that the Federal Reserve is a federal arm of the national government�.This is not true�In 1913 President Woodrow Wilson signed the document that created the Federal Reserve, and committed the American people to debt slavery until such time as they awake from their slumber and overthrow this vicious tyranny."� The understanding of this issue of money into the community can be best illustrated by equating money in the economy with tickets in a railway system. The tickets are printed by a printer who is paid for his work. The printer never claims the ownership of the tickets � And we can never imagine a railway company refusing to give passengers seats on a train because it is out of tickets. By this same token, a government should never refuse people the access to normal commerce and trade by claiming it is out of money." Suppose the government borrows $10 million. It only costs the bankers a few hundred dollars to actually produce the funds, and a little more to do the book-keeping. Do you think it is fair that our citizens should struggle to keep their homes and families together, while the bankers grow fat on these profits? Credit created by a Government-owned bank is better than credit created by private banks, because there is no need to recover the money from people by way of taxes, and there is no interest attached to inflate the cost. The public work completed with the credit by the Government bank is the asset that replaces the money created when the work is finished. None of our problems will disappear until we correct the creation, supply and circulation of money. Once the money problem is solved, everything else will fall into place. Each of us can help to turn this ship around: *The first thing is to teach people. VERY FEW know about or understand this information yet. Please pass this information on to those on and off the net. *Research this subject for yourself to increase your understanding. *Join with others who want to return the control of government to the people. Remember - they are 'public SERVANTS'! We are not their servant. They should do OUR bidding. *Regardless of your political leanings, encourage your local Member to investigate and correct our money system. (They probably need to be educated too!). You can do this by email, letter, telephone or personal discussion. *Legislators receive an average of only 100 letters on any given issue. So if you write you opinion and get others to write, say 25 letters, you send a strong message. (Have a letter writing evening). *To contact members of Congress or the House of Representatives go to http://www.hugnet.com/Congress.htm FURTHER INFORMATION All You Were Never Told About the US Monetary System http://www.moneymaker.com/money/frbhist.htm Billions for the Bankers www.parascope.com/mx/fedm.htm Please advise us of other noteworthy links that you know of. "None of our problems will disappear until we correct the creation, supply and circulation of money. Once the money problem is solved, everything else will fall into place." I Want The Earth Plus 5% http://health.microworld.com/html/plus_5_.html "None of our problems will disappear until we correct the creation, supply and circulation of money. Once the money problem is solved, everything else will fall into place." I Want The Earth Plus 5% http://health.microworld.com/html/plus_5_.html - - --------------29E97873D749AEAF8665B844-- - ------- End of Forwarded Message ------- End of Forwarded Message From vznuri at netcom.com Mon Oct 5 22:38:40 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:38:40 +0800 Subject: IP: New Surveillance Face Mapping System Message-ID: <199810070334.UAA27141@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: New Surveillance Face Mapping System Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 08:54:09 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com Source: The London Independent U.K. Section http://www.independent.co.uk/ New spy system to 'map' suspects By Jason Bennetto, Crimes Correspondent A REVOLUTIONARY surveillance system that allows the police to automatically identify the faces of wanted criminals and suspects in seconds is to be tested on the streets of Britain for the first time. The "facial mapping" computer will be used to catch muggers, burglars and shoplifters, but it is expected to be extended to target other cases including wanted killers, terrorists and missing children. The Football Association is also interested in using the technology to help pick out known hooligans at matches. The system, known as Mandrake, is to be tested by Scotland Yard and Newham borough council in a six-month trial in east London, starting next week. A computer data base of faces of offenders will be compared with film taken by local authority surveillance cameras in shopping centres, streets and housing estates. The computer automatically "matches" the faces of suspects and triggers an alarm, warning the operator who then contacts the police. More than 1,000 images can be examined per second. It automatically ignores beards and moustaches so offenders cannot hide under disguises. Photo-fit images can also be included on the data base but tests show they are less accurate than photographs. The system was criticised yesterday by the civil rights organisation Liberty, which said it could fall foul of human rights and data protection legislation. However the developers of Mandrake, the police and local councils, believe the system could revolutionise CCTV and, if it proves successful, is likely to be used nation-wide. Facial recognition systems are already used in Texas to stop sham marriages and on the Mexican border to prevent illegal immigration. Under the trial, Scotland Yard is providing dozens of photographs of wanted offenders, often taken by surveillance cameras in shops and banks. It will also supply pictures of convicted criminals, mostly for offences such as street robbery, burglary, and repeat shoplifting. The images will be placed on the computer which measures dozens of key facial characteristics, such as the eye shape and size. The computer then scans all the faces picked out on CCTV and will sound an alarm if it makes a match. The picture of suspect and the person they supposedly resemble then automatically appear on the CCTV operator's screen along with a secret code number. The police are then sent the pictures and the number via computer. The product, which has been developed by Software and Systems International in Slough, west of London, can be used to catch criminals on the run or missing persons. More controversially, it can also be used to track suspects who the police believe may commit offences. In future the police, customs, and immigration officers could use it at ports to identify known terrorists, smugglers and other criminals attempting to enter the country. A Scotland Yard spokesman said the system had an 80 per cent "hit" rate. On the question of civil liberties, he argued: "If you are innocent you have nothing to worry about." It has been tested at Watford football ground, but the poor quality of the surveillance equipment made it difficult for the computer to make matches. ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Mon Oct 5 22:39:04 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:39:04 +0800 Subject: IP: Worth Reading: Fwd from Gary North: Y2K Message-ID: <199810070334.UAA27059@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Worth Reading: Fwd from Gary North: Y2K Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 09:46:30 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com Forwarded from Gary North: ------------------- By now you know my concern over the Year 2000 Problem: the collapse of the division of labor. As Leonard Read wrote in "I, Pencil," no one knows how to make a pencil. It's too complicated: cut wood, carbon, paint, rubber, metal. A pencil can exist only because the division of labor exists. But if a pencil is too difficult to make, what about replacement parts for a dam? What about an automobile? But could this really happen? Wrong question: How will this not happen? There is not one compliant bank on earth, not one compliant public utility, not one compliant industry. Yet we have only 15 months to go. And in between now and then, worldwide panic will hit, making code-correction very difficult. Also, the latest estimate of embedded chips is 70 billion. The latest estimated failure rate for embedded systems is 10% to 20%. All of our management systems rely on mainframe computers. The people who ran the pre-computer management systems in 1965 have been fired or have retired. The knowledge they had went with them. They were replaced by digital idiot savants. These idiot savants are not flexible. Dustin Hoffman's character in Rainman was a model of flexibility compared to a computer. Computers do exactly what they were programmed to do. They do not listen to reason. They do not hear your screams. Their attitude is best expressed by Rhett Butler as he walked away from Scarlett for the last time. Look ahead. It's Friday, January 14, 2000. You are standing in front of a bank teller. You have stood in line for three hours. There is a line of 200 people behind you. You have your bank statement from last month. It says you have $4,517.22 in your checking account. But your checks have all bounced: "Account closed." Every account is automatically closed after two years of no activity, and your account had no activity from 1/1/1900 (00) to 1/1/1902 (02). Now you want your bounced checks cleared. The teller says, "I'm sorry. Our computer shows the account is closed." "Well, then, re-open it." "Are you making a deposit?" "No." "Then I can't re-open it." Problem: you now have no money. The account is closed. Your printed records are for last month. Maybe you spent all that money on Christmas. She has no idea. "I am not authorized to give you cash." (Well, maybe $200, by government decree.) What are you going to do? It will take many months to fix this for every depositor on earth. The banks will not survive for weeks. She has no authority to veto the computer. Nobody does. There is no alternative management system in place that will enable a bank's employees to fix the accounts and clear all checks and credit card transactions. All banks must stop accepting checks and credit card accounts until there is a way to clear the accounts. There is no way. Their management systems must be redesigned to go back to 1965, all over the world: a paper and ink system. But there is no time to do this. This would take years even if all the banks stayed up. But they will all go down. Any bank that is forced out of the capital markets for a week will go bankrupt -- two weeks, for sure. But if they are all out of the capital markets, there will be no capital markets. That means Western civilization will shut down: "Account closed." "Our computer is down." These four words may kill you. Literally. If you do not have financial reserves that are not electronic, these four words will strip you of your ability to buy and sell. And not just you: everyone. The division of labor will collapse. How will society produce a pencil? Or repair parts for a power generation plant? Think ahead. Sit down with a pen and paper. (It's good practice for the future.) Think of every situation in which your life would be disrupted by the words, "Our computer is down." If you could not get your immediate problem solved because of these for words, for just 60 consecutive days, what would happen to you? Think this through. Which local systems are threatened? Here is a preliminary list: banks, paychecks, supermarkets, drug stores (all prescriptions on computer), the water/sewer company, the electric utility, telephone service. If you lack imagination here, rent The Trigger Effect. Now let's move outward toward local emergency institutions. Think of the another missing 9 and two more 1's: 9-1-1. The police, the fire department, hospitals, ambulances. The phones may or may not be down, but 911 switchboards are only rarely compliant today. Now let's move farther outward into the world of capital: money market fund, mutual fund, pension fund, bond fund, insurance, second mortgages, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, IRS refunds. You just lost your retirement money. If your home burns down, you'll not get a replacement unless you have gold coins or cash to buy a used one. If you die, your wife will get nothing that isn't close at hand, i.e., in hand. "Our computer is down." This phrase will serve nicely as an epitaph for our civilization. Only if the computers don't go down, and also don't make bad calculations, can the West avoid this epitaph. But if they are not fixed, they will go down or go nuts. A BILLION LIVES LOST, IF THINGS GO FAIRLY WELL I have been writing for over a year on this with all the skill I have. I simply cannot get it across to all of you, or even to most of you. I am never at a loss for words, but I am at a loss for persuasion. I have been unable to persuade the vast majority of my readers, after almost two years, that if the division of labor collapses, we will lose millions of lives. Joe Boivin, who was the y2k director for Canada's Imperial Bank and Commerce until he quit, estimates that a billion people will die in 2000. He limits his discussion to the third world. I think we could lose half a billion in the urban West. Unthinkable? All right, show me how any large city will survive if the power goes off for 60 days, all railroad deliveries of grain and coal stop, all gasoline station pumps shut down, and there are no banks. Go on. I'm serious. Sit down and outline a scenario that will keep an urban population alive without mainframe computers. The army? There are 120 U.S. cities that the government has targeted as vulnerable to cyberwarfare. There are 1.4 million people in the entire U.S. military. Few have any training for riot control and food delivery. The government cannot provide such training without creating a panic. The military is dependent on the civilian communications system. How will 1.4 million untrained military personnel -- including the Navy -- police a destitute population of 60 million urban residents, not counting the suburbs? That's 11,666 people per city. But the large cities will get the lion's share. What about where you live? The bands of arsonists and rioters are loose in your city. What will your police do? I'll tell you: they will stay home if they are not being paid. And if the banks are down, they will not be paid. I know what you're thinking. "They just can't let this happen." What can "they" do to stop it? The United States is short 500,000 to 700,000 mainframe programmers. Roberto Vacca wrote The Coming Dark Age in 1973. He did not forecast y2k. If he had, the book would have been far more persuasive. His point was that our technology has extended beyond what we can understand. I was not impressed because that is true of the free market at all times. This is the genius of the free market. No one understands all of the interconnections, yet we prosper. So, I dismissed the book's thesis. What I did not see, and he did not see, was y2k. We have transferred to digital idiot savants all authority to make decisions that men found either too boring or too complex to make. We removed this decision-making authority from people and delegated it to machines. FROM ANALOGICAL TO DIGITAL AND BACK It's time to talk theology. Cornelius Van Til argued that men must think God's thoughts after Him -- analogically. God is a person. He's also three persons. We are persons. Our universe reflects God's personality. We don't live in an impersonal world. The biblical doctrine of the creation forces us to accept the doctrine of cosmic personalism. Modern computers do not think. They count. But modern man since the Renaissance has believed that number, not God's written revelation, is the touchstone of truth. He has believed that mankind's inability to comprehend (surround mentally) the infinitely complex universe can be compensated for. Man can use numerical formulas to substitute for omniscience. He can take a shortcut to omniscience. He can develop numerical formulas that allow him to control the external world, which is controlled by number. Why a capacity of the mind -- numerical coherence -- should also control the external realm is a great mystery. In fact, as Nobel Prize physicist Eugene Wigner said in a 1960 essay, the effectiveness of number in science is unreasonable. But it does work within creation's limits. Men have sought numerical shortcuts to cosmic knowledge and cosmic power. They have found many shortcuts, and on these shortcuts modern science rests. But then, in the 1950's, programmers took another shortcut -- a digital shortcut. They saved two holes out of 80 in IBM punch cards. This seemingly minor shortcut has brought society to the brink of destruction. We are not lemmings rushing to destruction. We are sheep being driven toward a cliff by idiot savants, to whom we have delegated control over our affairs. Man worships science and its shortcuts. He worships the creations made by his own hands and mind. We will soon find that such idolatry is always deadly. Modern man thinks he has shoved God out of the universe. He has used Darwinism and a theory of vast cosmic impersonal time to remove Him from man's newly acquired domain. Natural selection has replaced God's purpose. Cosmic time has replaced the six-day creation. But now we face the institutional monstrosity of the digital impersonalism of the idiot savants. Computers can count. Can they ever count! But the dates they use after '99 will be wrong. WHAT WILL YOU DO? You should now have a list of services and goods that will no longer be provided if the computers go down. It's a long list. You need a second list. What items must you buy now that can substitute for these lost services? You can't afford to buy them all. There will be a panic to buy such goods next year. It has already begun (e.g., Chinese diesel generators). Where will you get the fuel for a generator? Electricity for a well pump? Propane for a cook stove? Heat in the winter? Think of Montreal last January. But will the computers go down? Senator Robert Bennett said it well on July 14 at a National Press Club speech. If 2000 were the next day, this civilization might collapse. But, he said, we can save it between July 15 and Jan. 1, 2000. To which I reply: How? What is being done, worldwide, to avoid the death of the computers? Not just in the U.S. -- worldwide? Almost nothing. There are not enough skilled programmers. I suppose you get tired of reading about this. I am surely tired of writing it. But until I can no longer mail this newsletter, or until all the computers are fixed in late 1999, I will continue to nag you . . . not to death -- to life. As it stands today, if tomorrow were 2000, we would see the end of this civilization in 60 days. If you think I'm wrong, jot down those life-support systems that are 2000- compliant today. It's an empty list. How will we get from empty to fixed, worldwide, in the next 15 months? This is not a trick question. It's a life-and-death question. Do you have an answer and a contingency plan? Don't wait for leadership on this matter. Leaders are in y2k denial. You must lead. If you won't, who will? You are responsible for you. What will you do? How soon? Sincerely, Gary North ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Mon Oct 5 22:39:15 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:39:15 +0800 Subject: IP: Y2K- a futurist view: Society not resilient enough to withstand Message-ID: <199810070334.UAA27032@netcom13.netcom.com> From: "A.C." Subject: IP: Y2K- a futurist view: Society not resilient enough to withstand Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 21:26:27 -0700 To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com change + 2 more related articles. Sender: owner-ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Precedence: list Reply-To: "A.C." "However, he warns that our present economic and institutional=20 structures have milked communities and individuals of their=20 resilience to handle major and abrupt change such as Y2K may unleash." >> > >Watershed for life as we know it >By JOHN MACLEAY >29 Sep '98 > >ROBERT Theobald is a futurist who sees the year 2000 computer glitch=20 >as a potential watershed for global civilisation.=20 > >Theobald, a British-born economist based in the US, says the year=20 >2000 - or Y2K - computer bug will have as big an impact on the global=20 >economy as the oil shocks of the 1970s.=20 > >On a more sobering note, Y2K is already shaping up as the biggest=20 >technological fix in history. It will cost the US alone at least=20 >$US600 billion ($1034 billion) and possibly $US1 trillion - double=20 >what it spent on the Vietnam War when adjusted for inflation.=20 > >Theobald, who for 37 years has advocated the need for change to a=20 >more sustainable economy, says Y2K just might be that catalyst, given=20 >the "inertia" of the current system.=20 > >But he says that how Y2K will change our lives will depend largely on=20 >the degree to which governments and individuals prepare themselves=20 >between now and December 31 next year.=20 > >"For me, Y2K is only the beginning of the shocks that are going to=20 >come as we begin to realise that technology does not resolve all of=20 >our problems," Theobald says.=20 > >Theobald, who is in Australia to promote his latest book, Reworking=20 >Success, says that if handled successfully, Y2K could lead to a more=20 >decentralised economy and political decision-making process.=20 > >However, he warns that our present economic and institutional=20 >structures have milked communities and individuals of their=20 >resilience to handle major and abrupt change such as Y2K may unleash.=20 > > >Theobald says community resilience will determine whether Y2K is=20 >treated as a natural disaster or whether it will be seen as another=20 >technological blunder by those above.=20 > >Theobald's big fear is that large-scale anger caused by Y2K=20 >disruptions could lead to a breakdown in social order, especially in=20 >the larger US cities, which will be the hardest areas to organise for=20 >Y2K at a neighbourhood and sub-neighbourhood level.=20 > >"I believe the core issue on (handling) this Y2K thing is to start at=20 >the sub-neighbourhood level so that you can say you know who will=20 >need things.=20 > >"If we don't do anything, the chances of a major breakdown in public=20 >order, which has already been seen in Indonesia and elsewhere around=20 >the world in one way or another, is a very real threat.=20 > >"And without far more intelligence being put in to handle this, I'd=20 >say a global slump is a very real possibility, and a significant=20 >collapse is not off the cards either."=20 > >However, while Theobald canvasses the dark side of the millennium=20 >glitch, he also dissociates himself from the so-called cyber- >survivalists. These are people, mostly in the US, who are prepared to=20 >ride out the Y2K bug by stocking food and hiding away in isolation.=20 > >Theobald has been putting his words into action by working closely=20 >with his local neighbourhood in Spokane, Washington State, on Y2K=20 >preparedness.=20 > >His efforts were recognised last year by the Institute for Social=20 >Innovation in Britain, which awarded him a prize.=20 > >The institute's other recipient was former computer programmer Paloma=20 >O'Reilly, founder of the Cassandra Project, a community-based Y2K=20 >preparedness group that has been examining and preparing for self- >sufficiency in all areas that could be millennium-glitch affected,=20 >including power, water and food distribution.=20 > >"What we do as individuals, as societies and communities over the=20 >next few months will make an enormous difference to how serious Y2K=20 >becomes," says Theobald.=20 > >"This is a fairly established position. I'm one person among many.=20 > >"When you consider the very well established companies and the=20 >enormous sums of money being spent on this, what I say is not out of=20 >the ordinary.=20 > >"But what disturbs most is that the dominant message in our culture=20 >at the moment is not about Y2K preparedness."=20 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Boston Top Stories Spotlight Boston October 2, 1998 =A0=20 Texas city stages test of `Y2K' doomsday effects=20 By Chris Newton/Associated Press=20 A cold front was icing streets and causing power outages. A riot at a=20 prison outside town was using up valuable police resources. To make=20 matters worse, the 911 emergency system was broken. The nightmare scene didn't really happen, but Lubbock officials=20 imagined it did Wednesday as part of a test of how the city could=20 react if, as many fear, computers driving vital public systems fail=20 to recognize the year 2000. The west Texas city of more than 180,000 people didn't test any=20 equipment but rather conducted a drill to see how city personnel=20 responded to mock crises. It was called the first such citywide=20 simulation of the problem in the nation. City manager Bob Cass, scheduled to testify about the experience=20 Friday before a U.S. Senate committee, said the clear lesson was that=20 cities risk being blindsided if they don't work on contingency plans=20 for the worst-case ``Y2K'' scenario. ``This is the one disaster that we know exactly when it could occur,=20 but it's also the one disaster that we have no idea how bad it will=20 be,'' Cass said. ``One thing that sticks out in my mind is that there=20 is the potential for so many things to go wrong all at once.'' Some computer scientists fear the Y2K bug could cause water systems=20 to shut down, traffic lights to go haywire or life-support systems to=20 fail. When a Chrysler plant ran a Y2K test on a computer system, it=20 was discovered that security doors were stuck closed. The Lubbock experiment coupled such effects with mock emergencies=20 that would make for an extra-busy night at the police department. ``Our simulation took into account things like slick roads and=20 traffic accidents that would be standard fare for New Year's Eve,''=20 Cass said. The test was essentially a role-playing game. Exactly what or when the ``disasters'' would occur was kept secret=20 until the drills started Wednesday evening. The only thing announced=20 was a four-hour window, starting at 5 p.m., when anything could=20 happen. Test conductors sent e-mail messages to city officials notifying them=20 of mock natural disasters or failed systems. Emergency officials,=20 including police, fire and utility workers, then had to react. A=20 system was set up to judge response times. At emergency management headquarters, officials frantically practiced=20 deploying police officers to deal with problems and posted red flags=20 on a giant city map to highlight emergency areas. The illusion was made complete with reporters summoned for ``news=20 conferences'' and mock reports from a National Weather Service=20 official. As the drill began, officials were told the city's 911 emergency=20 system had failed. Officials quickly switched over to a county system=20 and broadcast two new police and fire department emergency numbers on=20 television. Cass said city workers improvised well when unexpected problems arose. ``We pulled together and acted like a team,'' he said. ``A lot of=20 these agencies aren't used to dealing with each other like they had=20 to tonight.'' Mayor Windy Sitton said the test revealed that Lubbock needs to study=20 how to better respond to natural gas shortages. When fake gas outages=20 left hundreds of homes without heat, officials had to devise a plan=20 to set up shelters in the parts of town that still had power. ------------------------------------------------------------------ The Kansas City Star=20 Y2k Nervous world seeks ways to exterminate the year 2000 bug By DAVID HAYES and FINN BULLERS - Staff Writers Date: 09/26/98 22:15 Marilyn Allison has spent the last three years making sure computers=20 at Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Kansas City don't fail after the=20 ball drops on New Year's Eve 1999.=20 Allison is confident Blue Cross has the problem well in hand. And she=20 thinks most of Kansas City does, too.=20 But she still is planning to sock away enough food, water, cash and=20 firewood to last a couple of weeks in case everything does go haywire=20 on Jan. 1, 2000.=20 There's the rub of the year 2000 bug, a glitch that could cause some=20 computers, machinery, medical equipment, utilities and VCRs to quit=20 working, or spit out bad information, when the 1900s become the 2000s. Nobody really knows what's going to happen.=20 The problem stems from computer systems and billions of embedded=20 computer chips that might read the "00" in a computer program as 1900=20 rather than 2000.=20 Edward Yardeni, one of the nation's leading economists, forecasts a=20 70 percent chance of global recession because of the bug. Another=20 leading forecaster, David Wyss, chief economist for Standard & Poor's, doesn't expect significant disruption. He even contends the=20 resulting fallout might be fun -- if we keep a sense of humor about=20 it.=20 But everyone acknowledges something is coming down the tracks, said=20 Leon Kappelman, a university professor and author who is spending=20 much of his time these days talking about the year 2000 problem.=20 "The uncertainty is whether it's a locomotive or a bicycle,"=20 Kappelman said. "And it's difficult to get definitive evidence."=20 Until now there hasn't been much information to rely on. Some credit=20 cards with "00" expiration dates have been rejected. A 104-year-old=20 Minnesota woman was invited to report to kindergarten, and a computer=20 docked an Olathe couple $17,800 for insurance premiums.=20 But those are just scattered hints of the trouble to come. The real=20 warning lies in our growing reliance on vast networks of technology -- a single misfire in the wrong place can sabotage lives in far-flung=20 places.=20 For example, when just one satellite malfunctioned in May, millions=20 of pagers and automated teller machines went out for two days. An ice=20 storm in eastern Canada knocked out part of the country's power grid=20 and shut off power to millions of people for more than a week.=20 Think if all of that -- and more -- happened on one day: Jan. 1, 2000, a Saturday.=20 American businesses rely on computers to do almost everything. They=20 run huge manufacturing machines, answer telephones, pay employees and=20 control alarm systems.=20 Federal government computers track airliners, generate Social=20 Security checks, and control satellites in space and missiles on the=20 ground. Cities use computers to run traffic lights and dispatch=20 police officers.=20 Utilities use them to operate water and sewage systems. Grocery=20 stores use them to keep track of stock and place orders.=20 Even more important than the software that runs those computers are=20 the tiny, embedded computer chips buried in the guts of technological=20 gadgets, heavy machinery, airliners and even granddad's pacemaker.=20 There are 40 billion of the chips, most of them hard or impossible to=20 test, said Dave Hall, an expert with the CABA Corp. in Oak Brook, Ill. =20 Estimates vary on how many of those chips will fail. Hall says 1=20 percent. Others say failures could go as high as 10 percent -- and=20 even higher in some medical equipment.=20 Even a 1 percent failure rate means 400 million chips would fail.=20 Kappelman, the University of North Texas professor, thinks the=20 interrelationships between all those elements will cause serious=20 disruptions.=20 For instance, it's unlikely that America's electric utilities will be=20 caught unprepared on the last New Year's Eve of the 1900s. In fact,=20 an industry report released last week said utility problems seemed to=20 be fewer -- and easier to fix -- than expected.=20 But if only a few plants shut down on Jan. 1, 2000, the strain on the=20 rest of the power grid could trip a cascading failure that causes=20 widespread brownouts or blackouts.=20 "This will change the way we see the world," Kappelman said. "We'll=20 see our dependence on technology in a whole new way."=20 The fix is in?=20 Even if embedded chips are hard to check, the software problem=20 shouldn't seem too difficult to fix -- on the surface, at least.=20 For decades, computers have been programmed to recognize dates using=20 six digits: today's date is 09/27/98. When the calendar rolls over at=20 midnight on New Year's Eve 1999, computers that haven't been taught=20 differently will see the year as 1900 or some other date entirely. If=20 they work at all.=20 So solve the problem. Add a couple of numbers to the programming code. No big deal, right?=20 It's become a very big deal. For Sprint Corp., that small fix means=20 programmers must pore over 80 million lines of code. The fix will=20 take two years.=20 Big business thinks the problem is so significant that fixing it has=20 become a big business.=20 Sprint Corp. is spending $200 million on year 2000 repairs; Hallmark=20 Cards, $25 million; Blue Cross in Kansas City, $25 million; UMB Bank,=20 $22 million; Yellow Corp., $17 million. Johnson County taxpayers will=20 pay $17.2 million to fix that county's year 2000 problems.=20 All told, the fix in the Kansas City area will easily top the $400=20 million mark. Worldwide, the total is estimated at $300 billion to=20 $600 billion. Entire companies have sprouted just to deal with the year 2000 bug.=20 More than 140 public companies, ranging from Acceler8 Technology to=20 Zmax Corp., are touting their solutions.=20 Where there's a problem, there's a lawyer. Law firms have established=20 special teams just to handle potential litigation from the year 2000=20 problem.=20 Companies that cater to survivalists are hawking canned or dried food=20 and survival gear to those with year 2000 angst.=20 That type of hype is spreading across the Internet on hundreds of=20 year 2000 Web sites. A few of the most radical year 2000 worriers=20 already have moved to rural areas to get away from what they think=20 will be urban chaos when the lights go out and the food supply chain=20 breaks down.=20 Cynthia Ratcliffe of Pleasant Valley, a disabled former office worker, can't afford to move. But she's worried.=20 "I'm figuring at least six months of everything being messed up,"=20 said Ratcliffe, who's stocking up on canned food and kerosene lamps.=20 She's worried that those who have prepared will become targets for=20 those who haven't.=20 "I'm contemplating whether I should get some 2-by-4s to put bars over=20 the doors and windows," Ratcliffe said. "I'm trying to decide whether=20 I should buy a weapon."=20 One expert sees self-interest driving much of the panic.=20 Consultants benefit from the year 2000 fear that helps pay their=20 skyrocketing fees, said Nicholas Zvegintzov, president of Software=20 Management Network of New York and a programmer for 35 years.=20 Politicians also benefit from a puffed-up problem they can fix=20 without much effort.=20 "Unfortunately, there's no political clout in common sense,"=20 Zvegintzov said.=20 Sen. Bob Bennett, a Utah Republican who coordinates the Senate's year=20 2000 efforts, isn't doing anything to add to the national calm.=20 In a July 15 speech to the National Press Club in Washington, Bennett=20 told journalists to expect electrical brownouts and regional=20 blackouts. He predicts some banks will go bankrupt and some water=20 systems will break down.=20 Such alarm might actually be good, said Heidi Hooper, year 2000=20 director for the Information Technology Association of America. She=20 said the general public could use a serious wake-up call.=20 "These huge Fortune 100 companies are spending, collectively,=20 billions and billions of dollars. I don't think that's hype," she=20 said. "They are not going to spend that money for no reason. They=20 know, bottom line, that if they are going to make money they have to=20 stay in business."=20 But for some businesses to stay afloat, other businesses will have to=20 drown, she said.=20 "What we need, unfortunately, is examples of failures," Hooper said.=20 "That's going to start soon enough in 1999. And the private sector is=20 not going to share that information, so it's going to have to be up=20 to the federal government to step in."=20 But the federal government is in no shape to provide leadership.=20 Overall, one congressman gave the federal government a "D" on its=20 most recent year 2000 preparedness report card, up from the "F" it=20 received in June.=20 "This is not a grade you take home to your parents," said Rep. Steve=20 Horn, a California Republican and chairman of the House subcommittee=20 on government management of information and technology.=20 Horn predicts the government will not be able to fix a substantial=20 number of "mission critical" systems by 2000. And the price tag to=20 fix the 24 governmental departments surveyed is $6.3 billion, up $1=20 billion from the estimate given by the Office of Management and=20 Budget.=20 "The executive branch has a deadline that cannot be extended," Horn=20 said. "There is no margin for error."=20 Closer to home, Kansas City is requiring all city departments to=20 submit contingency plans by October for dealing with the year 2000=20 problem.=20 What to look for: Will traffic lights work? Will prisoners be=20 released early if a computer mistakenly thinks an inmate has been=20 jailed for more than 100 years? Will fire trucks start, and what is=20 the backup plan if they don't?=20 "You don't want to overreact, and we're not," said John Franklin,=20 assistant city manager. "But there is a real issue here for public=20 managers that's kind of scary."=20 Elsewhere, Water District No. 1 of Johnson County will spend $1.56=20 million to fix 4,109 computer programs and 701,021 lines of code by=20 the end of next summer. The district says the job is 75 percent=20 complete, and General Manager Byron Johnson said he was confident the=20 district would be prepared.=20 But experts aren't prepared to declare victory.=20 "My whole theme from day one is we need answers," said Yardeni, the=20 Yale economist and managing director of Deutsche Bank Securities.=20 "I'm not trying to foment panic. I'm not trying to create revolution.=20 But you have to be a naive optimist to think things are going to be=20 pretty relaxed Jan. 1, 2000."=20 ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Mon Oct 5 22:39:41 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:39:41 +0800 Subject: IP: "Big Brother" Watches "Big Brother" Message-ID: <199810070334.UAA27073@netcom13.netcom.com> From: roundtable Subject: IP: "Big Brother" Watches "Big Brother" Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 16:30:20 -0400 To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com On Tuesday April 28, 1998 COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS MEMBER Senate =46inance Committee Chairman William Roth, sited several incidents describin= g mistreatment by the criminal investigation division of the IRS. The same day The Treasury Department announced that former CIA and FBI chief COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS MEMBER William Webster would head up a special investigation of the IRS's criminal investigation division. Sunday May 4, 1998 on the CBS show Face the Nation, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS MEMBER Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan said "The IRS is not out of control, it's just not under control," "There is no management system." "The criminal division (of the IRS) got out of control. That SWAT team breaking into businesses with body armor and automatic weapons - now what's that?" asked Moynihan. "That is no way to behave with taxpayers. We can get this under control and will." COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS MEMBER Moynihan expressed confidence in Congress and the agency's new director, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS MEMBER Charles O. Rossotti, to create such a system and give it a face that is friendlier to the public than the aggressive, arm-twisting "Big Brother" described by taxpayers at Senate Finance Committee hearings held the week of April 28th, and in September 1997. COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS MEMBER Charles O. Rossotti may be able to give the system a friendly face The problem is the friendly face will do little more than hide the same "Big Brother" tactics. Wiretaps may be one of those tactics. Some insight into how COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS MEMBER William Webster thinks, is found in the USA Today article that follows. The article is about a record number of "Big Brother" wiretaps in the US. The excuse for the wiretaps "is a stepped-up federal response to increased terrorist activity on American soil. Opponents argue that the process endangers the very liberties it seeks to protect." COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS MEMBER William Webster, head of the investigative team looking into "Big Brother" IRS abuses, is a proponent of increased "Big Brother" wiretaps who believes, "This issue is where the rubber hits the road," said [COUNCIL ON =46OREIGN RELATIONS MEMBER] William Webster, who headed the FBI in 1978 when the law allowing the secret wiretaps was passed. "It's where we try to balance the concept of our liberty against what has to be done to protect it." The USA Today article follows: >Hunt for terrorists brings about record rise in U.S. wiretaps >By Richard Willing / USA TODAY [ October 5, 1998] >>[ http://detnews.com:80/1998/nation/9810/04/10040083.htm ] > >WASHINGTON -- Federal judges operating in secret courts are authorizing >unprecedented numbers of wiretaps and clandestine searches aimed at spies >and terrorists in the United States, Justice Department records show. > > During the past three years, an average of 760 wiretaps and searches a >year were carried out, a 38-percent increase from the 550 a year from >1990-94. > > Federal judges have authorized a yearly average of 463 ordinary wiretaps >since 1990 in drug, organized crime and other criminal cases. > > Part of the growth in surveillance is attributed to an increase in >espionage and terrorist activities in the country. > > "There's a greater quantity of the folks who are potentially problematic >out there," said Jamie Gorelick, who as deputy attorney general from >1994-97 helped review wiretap applications. > > Proponents say the surveillance reflects a stepped-up federal response to >increased terrorist activity on American soil. > > Opponents argue that the process endangers the very liberties it seeks to >protect. > > "This issue is where the rubber hits the road," said [COUNCIL ON FOREIGN >RELATIONS MEMBER] William Webster, who headed the FBI in 1978 when the law >allowing the secret wiretaps was passed. "It's where we try to balance the >concept of our liberty against what has to be done to protect it." > > The wiretaps, which are applied for by the Justice Department under the >Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act and carried out by the FBI and >National Security Agency, have received their greatest use yet under >President Clinton and Atty. Gen. Janet Reno. > > Since 1995, Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act courts also have >authorized searches of the homes, cars, computers and other property of >suspected spies. In its two decades, those courts have approved 11,950 >applications and turned down one request. > > Generally, defense lawyers can challenge the basis for authorizing a >wiretap. But supporting information for wiretaps authorized by those >courts is sealed for national security reasons. > > "It legitimizes what would appear to be contrary to constitutional >protections," said Steven Aftergood, privacy specialist at the Federation >of American Scientists. "It's a challenge to the foundation of American >liberties." > >Opponents also say the government is using the wiretaps to replace >conventional criminal searches, which must meet a higher legal standard. > > "There's a growing addiction to the use of the secret court as an >alternative to more conventional investigative means," said Jonathan >Turley, law professor at George Washington University in Washington, D.C. > > The wiretaps are meant to develop intelligence, not to help make criminal >cases. But the wiretap information was used to secure guilty pleas from >CIA turncoats Aldrich Ames in 1994 and Harold Nicolson in 1997. > > How the surveillance act works > > * The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 created a special >secret court for authorizing wiretaps on suspected spies. > * The court was intended by Congress as a check against the power of >presidents, who until 1978 had authorized wiretaps and warrantless >searches in the name of national security. > * The law requires the Justice Department, and usually the FBI or the >National Security Agency, to show a judge that the target is a foreign >government or agent engaging in "clandestine intelligence gathering >activities" or terrorism. roundtable ___ Visit the Roundtable Web Page: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/2807 Title-50 War and National Defense =A7 783 states - "It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to combine, conspire, or agree with any other person to perform any act which would substantially contribute to the establishment within the United States of a totalitarian dictatorship, the direction and control of which is to be vested in, or exercised by or under the domination of control of, any foreign government." The Council on Foreign Relations are in violation of Title-50 War and National Defense =A7 783. The Council on Foreign Relations has unlawfully an= d knowingly combined, conspired, and agreed to substantially contribute to the establishment of one world order under the totalitarian dictatorship, the direction and the control of members of Council on Foreign Relations, the Royal Institute of International Affairs, and members of their branch organizations in various nations throughout the world. That is totalitarianism on a global scale. ____ Visit the Roundtable Web Page: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/2807 E-mail: roundtable at mail.geocities.com read on-line: Psychological Operations In Guerrilla Warfare ( The CIA's Nicaragua Manual); The Secret Team by Fletcher Prouty; The NAFTA PSYOP; Nitze's Not-Sees; & More visit: U.S. Army War College - Meet Henry L. Stimson and Elihu Root Professors of Military Studies ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Mon Oct 5 22:39:44 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:39:44 +0800 Subject: IP: "The Internet 1998: The end of the beginning" Message-ID: <199810070334.UAA27086@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: "The Internet 1998: The end of the beginning" Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 05:57:25 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com Source: Business Today http://www.businesstoday.com/techpages/wsj2100598.htm BT EXCLUSIVE: The Internet 1998: The end of the beginning by Bill Burke/BusinessToday staff The Internet is not going away, but it is about to undergo a facelift. With the demand for faster, more reliable data communications access growing, some technology pundits are predicting the death of the Internet. Radio took 38 years to reach an audience of 50 million people, according to Sprint CEO William T. Esrey. The Internet has taken only four years to reach that same audience. Despite that growth, it has reached critical mass and is due flare out in the near future, he said. "The Internet is going away," Esrey said. "The Internet will be replaced with other networks." But according to a panel at the Wall Street Journal Technology Summit this morning, that demise is being prematurely reported. "One of the beauties of the Internet is that it can change in several places simultaneously," said Robert Metcalfe, vice president of Technology, International Data Group. "There are five or 10 next generation Internets coming." However, there are threats to the growth of the new Net. The first 25 years of the Internet has been characterized by governmental subsidies and community cooperation. Recently, the financial payoff has led to heretofore unseen posturing and political infighting -- something that could threaten the development of future networks, according to John M. McQuillan, president of McQuillan Consulting. Add in new technologies, however, and the next generation begins to take shape. "I think where we are with the Internet where we were 100 years ago with electricity," said Paul R. Gudonis, president of GTE Internetworking. "We're still in the early stages of this." Gudonis said the Internet is about to become more applications-based, forcing businesses to re-think their approach. "Business is going through an adoption cycle," he said. "Now we're seeing the second coming of re-engineering." Changes will come in how corporations go about prospecting, learning how to sell, and "totally revamping how they actually do business." As a result, companies are preparing for the next incarnation, building a massive new backbone for each new network, and preparing for, among other things, streaming video. "Everybody's getting ready for video," Gudonis said. "Everybody's going to go camera crazy, I think." But the bottom line is that capitalism has met the Net, and it will not be the same. "Where we are, is at the end of the beginning of the Internet," McQuillan said. ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Mon Oct 5 22:40:07 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:40:07 +0800 Subject: IP: SOROS: Must have economic "third way" Message-ID: <199810070334.UAA27152@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: SOROS: Must have economic "third way" Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 08:56:17 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com Source: The London Independent U.K. Section http://www.independent.co.uk/ Soros calls for new cash restraints GEORGE SOROS, one of the world's leading financiers, launched a scathing attack yesterday on governments and bankers alike for causing a financial crisis so severe that it could topple the world's economic system. "I am very concerned because it will lead to basically the breakdown of the global capitalist system," he said. Coming from a pre-eminent global capitalist, his words are all the more striking because he advises new restraints on the movement of international cash. He spoke as the annual meetings of the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank wrestled with a financial crisis that has wrecked Asia and Russia and now threatens Latin America. Mr Soros, in his speech and in a book to be published next month, attacks free marketeers - or "market fundmentalists," as he calls them - for weakening the world financial system, impoverishing developing countries and threatening democracy itself. Governments have botched their efforts to tackle the crisis. "The authorities have failed to control the situation," he said. "The G7 or the G whatever should have been shut into a room and hammered this out." Mr Soros said that in the future, limits would have to be put on the global casino to prevent it from destabilising states and societies. "Some restraints on capital movements would have been very useful to protect countries against the onslaught of the wrecking ball," he said. "The free movement of capital, totally free flow, is not advisable." Mr Soros is chairman of Soros Fund Management, a leading financier who speculated against the pound - and won handsomely - in 1992. But he has become increasingly convinced that pure capitalism is just as dangerous to the world as communism, and has become a leading advocate of an economic third way. "We have been living with and basing ourselves on a false model of how financial markets operate," he said. Markets are capable of tipping into instability so severe that it threatens the roots of democracy itself. "It is market fundamentalism that has rendered the global capitalist system unsound and unsustainable," he writes in his book The Crisis of Global Capitalism, a section of which was released yesterday. So great had financial instability become that "market fundamentalism is today a greater threat to open society than totalitarian ideology", said Mr Soros, who grew up under first Nazi, then Communist rule in Hungary. "Market forces, if they are given complete authority even in the purely economic and financial arenas, will produce chaos and could ultimately lead to the downfall of the global democratic capitalist system." The impact had been particularly hard on developing nations forced to follow the course set by western institutions and banks, he said. "Conditions have tilted too far towards the countries at the centre of capitalist system to the detriment of countries at the periphery. These conditions are unsustainable." The only way to recover from the present crisis was to organise flows of capital back into the developing countries, he argued, but so far the IMF and western governments had been unwilling to meet this challenge. City staff braced for tidal wave of sackings as banks cut back Morale among City high-flyers has reached rock bottom as they brace themselves for a wave of redundancies over the coming weeks as a result of the global financial crisis. Although redundancies have now, so far, been limited, the fear of real collapse and a return to the austerity of the early 1990's when blue chip firms like Goldman Sachs were laying off staff by the thousand, means conspicuous consumption and optimism are becoming a thing of the past. The latest to feel the chill are staff at Warburg Dillon Reed, one of the City's top securities firms who are braced for substantial lay-offs in the wake of last week's disclosures that the bank's Swiss parent has suffered serious losses from its investment in high risk hedge-funds. Insiders say that Warburg's 4,500 London-based staff expect announcements detailing cutbacks later this week. The latest quarterly survey of the UK Financial Services industry by the Confederation of British Industry and consultants PricewaterhouseCoopers yesterday showed business confidence among financial sector firms falling to its lowest for eight years. Firms which have already announced lay-offs since this present bout of turmoil hit financial markets include ING Barings, Robert Fleming and Japanese firms Daiwa and Nikko. One of the larger firms Merrill Lynch has already cancelled its Christmas Party and ordered staff to cut back on overseas travel, entertainment and the use of mobile phones in an attempt to save �150m this year. The firm lent billions to high risk hedge funds. Jobs cuts are expected to follow. It is widely feared that at least one big international bank could go under because of losses to these highly speculative investment operations despite last month's �2.4bn bail-out of Long-Term Capital Management by a consortium of big international banks. With nervous investors sitting on their hands, traders have had more time to spend in City drinking haunts to drown sorrows and swap tidbits about the latest bank to hit trouble. The cutbacks are likely to be even more painful this time round because of the speed with which this crisis has hit. Many firms were still out there trying to recruit until late into August, pushing up salaries for some categories of staff to stratospheric levels. Now those expansion plans have gone on hold. Prestige office developments in the Square Mile are being shelved as demand for space has vanished overnight. "First to rise, first to go," said Joseph Toots, a stockbroker, sipping a glass of zinfandel in a Broadgate winebar. "My job may be a trifle insecure at the moment, but who knows, lets wait until Christmas." Mr Toots knows his bonus which last year was "definitely six figure", will be minimal this time around. "Good thing I bought my house outright," he said. But it is not just sports car dealers and Dom Perignon stockists who are monitoring the situation with gloomy eyes. The downturn in the City is hitting at a time when High Street shops are already deserted as a result of the huge rise in the cost of borrowing since last year. Contrary to common perception the City is not the place where everybody earns a half million pound bonus; many thirty-somethings are pushing themselves to the limit, earning what sound like fat salaries until you hear their commitments. It is these middle-class, high-income people, whose wealth is more a prospect than a reality who may be hit the hardest. "We are going to have to have a serious rethink about everything," said Julia, a consultant. She says she and her husband are delaying the day when they will have to sit down and face financial reality. "We earn almost �100,000 between us, but with the mortgage and the school and the nursery fees (they have three small children) we're not going to survive like this." She says she was depending on her share portfolio to cover the mortgage on their three bedroom terraced house in Islington and it doesn't anymore. "The house may have to be sold," she says, "and god knows how we will afford the school fees." It may sound like a yuppie problem, but smaller things have been known to drive people into domestic conflict. Isobel Thacker, a banker, said the same problem has just made her cancel plans to move house. "I can't afford to move anymore, we're all staying put," she said. ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Mon Oct 5 22:40:20 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:40:20 +0800 Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.15:Privacy Conference Announcement Message-ID: <199810070334.UAA27043@netcom13.netcom.com> From: "ama-gi ISPI" Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.15:Privacy Conference Announcement Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 00:53:20 -0700 To: ISPI Clips 5.15:Privacy Conference Announcement News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) Monday October 5, 1998 ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This From: ACLU of Wisconsin (Press Release) acluwicmd at aol.com Privacy Conference Announcement ACLU of Wisconsin Data Privacy Project announces a privacy conference on November 13, 1998 in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. The conference is co-sponsored by University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee Institute of World Affairs. The event features keynote addresses by Spiros Simitis, principal author of the �EU Directive on Data Protection� and Stefan Walz, privacy commissioner for the German state of Bremen. Registration information may be obtained from Carole Doeppers, Director, Wisconsin Data Privacy Project, 122 State Street, Suite 407, Madison, WI 53703. Or contact her by phone (608-250-1769), fax (608-258-9854) or e-mail . �Data Privacy in the Global Age�, Friday, November 13, 1998, Italian Conference Center, Milwaukee Registration Fee: $175 Limited number of scholarships available upon request Conference lodging: Astor Hotel 1-800-242-0355 (in state) 1-800-558-0200 (outside Wisconsin) Conference Program: November 13 Welcome and Introductions Keynote Address: �The EU Directive: Its Impact on Electronic Commerce with Third Countries� Dr. Spiros Simitis, principal author of the �EU Directive on Data Protection Concurrent Sessions: �The Internet: New Frontiers for Privacy and the Law� Moderator: Andrea Schneider, Professor, Marquette University School of Law Panelists: Fred Cate, Author and Professor, Indiana University School of Law Timothy Muth, Attorney and Chair, Milwaukee Bar Association�s Technology Committee �A New Electronic Bill of Rights: Good or Bad for Business?� Moderator: David Luce, Professor Emeritus, UW-Milwaukee Philosophy Department Panelists: Evan Hendricks, Editor/Publisher, Privacy Times Paola Benassi, Operations Manager, TRUSTe Luncheon Afternoon Keynote Address: �The German Approach to Data Protection� Dr. Stefan Walz, Privacy Commissioner, German State of Bremen Concurrent Workshops: �Trade-off of Values: Freedom of Information vs. Information Privacy� Moderator: Len Levine, Professor, UW-Milwaukee Computer Science Department Panelists: Marty Kaiser, Editor, Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel James Friedman, Legal Counsel, Wisconsin FOI Council Don Gemberling, Director, Information & Policy Division. Minnesota Department of Administration Charles Sykes, Author and Radio Talk-Show Host �Developing Your Own Fair Information Practices: Balancing Commercial and Consumer Rights� Moderator: David Flaherty, Commissioner, Office of Information and Privacy, British Columbia Discussants: Patrick Sullivan, Partner, PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP James O�Brien, Vice President, Sun Tzu Security Ltd. Reception --------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------ ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research and educational purposes only. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases (up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message "Please enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to: ISPIClips at ama-gi.com . The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia (Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no government funding and takes a global perspective. ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research into electronic, personal and financial privacy with a view toward helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy. But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and generous financial support. If you value in the ISPI Clips service or if you are concerned about the erosion of your privacy in general, won't you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI Clips Supporter" or by taking out an institute Membership? We gratefully accept all contributions: Less than $60 ISPI Clips Supporter $60 - $99 Primary ISPI Membership (1 year) $100 - $300 Senior ISPI Membership (2 years) More than $300 Executive Council Membership (life) Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership. For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com . We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to any third party. ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Mon Oct 5 22:40:35 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:40:35 +0800 Subject: IP: Did EU Scuttle Echelon Debate? Message-ID: <199810070334.UAA27166@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Did EU Scuttle Echelon Debate? Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 09:25:41 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com Source: Wired http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/15429.html Did EU Scuttle Echelon Debate? By Niall McKay 5:15 p.m.5.Oct.98.PDT The European Parliament has swept aside concerns about alleged surveillance and spying activities conducted in the region by the US government, a representative for Europe's Green Party said Monday. Specifically, the EU allegedly scuttled parliamentary debate late last month concerning the Echelon surveillance system. Echelon is a near-mythical intelligence network operated in part by the National Security Agency. "The whole discussion was completely brushed over," Green Party member of European Parliament Patricia McKenna said. The US government has refused even to acknowledge Echelon's existence. But since 1988, investigative journalists and privacy watchdogs have uncovered details of a secret, powerful system that can allegedly intercept any and all communications within Europe. According to scores of reports online and in newspapers, Echelon can intercept, record, and translate any electronic communication -- telephone, data, cellular, fax, email, telex -- sent anywhere in the world. The alleged system has only recently come under the scrutiny of the European Parliament, which has grown concerned about EU government and private sector secrets falling into US hands. The debate fizzled mysteriously, said McKenna, who suggested that the Parliament is reluctant to probe the matter fully for fear of jeopardizing relations between the EU and the United States. "Basically they didn't want to rock the boat," she said. Furthermore, she said the debate was held two days ahead of schedule, hindering preparations for the discussion by European Members of Parliament. While the NSA has never officially recognized Echelon's existence, it has been the subject of heated debates in Europe following a preliminary report by the Scientific and Technical Options Assessment, a committee advising the parliament on technical matters. On 19 September, the Parliament debated both the EU's relationship with the United States and the existence and uses of Echelon. The Green Party believes the resolution to defer its decision on Echelon, pending further investigation, was influenced by pressure from the US government, which has tried to keep the system secret. Glyn Ford, a member of the European Parliament for the British Labor Party and a director of STOA, missed the debate because of the schedule change but does not share the Green Party's view. "There is not enough information on Echelon, beyond its existence, to debate the matter fully," said Ford. According to Ford, the Omega Foundation, a British human rights organization, compiled the first report on Echelon for the Parliament committee. "It is very likely that Omega will be commissioned again," Ford said. "But this time I believe the EU will require direct input from the NSA." Simon Davies, the director of the privacy watchdog group Privacy International sees the debate as a major civil rights victory. "It's unheard of for a parliament to openly debate national security issues," said Davies. "This debate fires a warning shot across the bows of the NSA." Echelon is said to be principally operated by the National Security Agency and its UK equivalent, the Government Communications Headquarters. It reportedly also relies on cooperation with other intelligence agencies in Canada, Australia, and New Zealand. "These spy systems were seen as a necessary part of international security during the cold war," said Ford. "But there is no military reason for spying on Russia now unless they (NSA) want to listen to the sound of the proto-capitalist economy collapsing." ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Mon Oct 5 22:40:53 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:40:53 +0800 Subject: IP: Heavy Leonid meteor shower threatens communications Message-ID: <199810070334.UAA27097@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Heavy Leonid meteor shower threatens communications Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 06:11:35 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com Source: San Francisco Examiner http://www.examiner.com/981004/1004meteor.shtml Heavy Leonid meteor shower threatens communications Annual light show biggest in 32 years By Keay Davidson EXAMINER SCIENCE WRITER A spectacular meteor storm will ignite the heavens in mid-November, possibly "sandblasting" satellites and threatening everyday services from cell phones to TV shows to data communications. The last great meteor barrage came in 1966, when space satellites were far less common - and far less essential to everyday life. Back then, thousands of meteors per minute shot across the North American sky. Today, the skies are jammed with satellites that aid in weather forecasting, relay data communications and TV signals, and enable military surveillance. The world's satellite network is a juicy target for the blistering celestial rain. Although the meteors are smaller than grains of sand, they travel tremendously fast - more than 40 miles per second, equivalent to a 10-second flight from San Francisco to Los Angeles. As a result, they could knock out or disrupt some satellites' delicate electronics. "This meteoroid storm will be the largest such threat ever experienced by our critical orbiting satellite constellations," William H. Ailor, director of the Center for Orbital and Reentry Debris Studies at the Aerospace Corp. in El Segundo, Los Angeles County, told the House Science Committee on May 21. The 1966 storm appeared over continental North America, but this year's main aerial assault will be visible from Japan, China, the Philippines and other parts of east Asia, and possibly Hawaii. The meteors are debris from a comet, Tempel-Tuttle. Scientists from NASA's Ames Research Center in Mountain View hope to study the shower from aircraft flying out of Okinawa, says Ames principal investigator Peter Jenniskens. They hope to broadcast live TV images of the shower over the World Wide Web. The "Leonid" meteor shower is so named because the meteors appear to emanate from the direction of the constellation Leo. Actually, the shower is a cloud of rocky particles orbiting the sun. Annual event Earth crosses the cloud's path every Nov. 17 and 18. At that time, amateur astronomers enjoy seeing the "Leonids" zip across the sky, sometimes several per minute. But every 30-plus years, our planet crosses a particularly dense part of the Leonid cloud. So the "shower" becomes a "storm," with up to 40 meteors per second and sometimes 50,000 per hour. Although very tiny, the particles move so fast that the friction with Earth's atmosphere will cause them to burn and glow. Visible from hundreds of miles away, they will make the sky look like fireworks. NASA plans to turn the Hubble Space Telescope away from the storm so meteors that hit the giant orbital telescope will miss its super-delicate mirror, says NASA spokesman Don Savage. "NASA is taking (the shower) seriously," Savage said. "We have been assessing what we need to do to ensure our satellites in Earth orbit are going to be operated in a safe manner during this meteor shower." Other satellites might be temporarily re-oriented so that they present the narrowest "cross section" - the smallest target. "We are concerned, and we have been in meetings and making plans concerning the Leonid shower," said U.S. Army Maj. Mike Birmingham, a spokesman for the U.S. Space Command in Colorado, which monitors American military and spy satellites. In his congressional testimony, Ailor said that "because of the very high speed of the particles - they will be moving at speeds of over... 155,000 mph - the storm poses an even greater and somewhat unknown threat." Most particles tiny "Fortunately, most of the particles... are very small, smaller than the diameter of a human hair, and won't survive passage through the Earth's atmosphere," Ailor said. "Our satellites, however, are (in space and) not protected by the atmosphere, so they will be 'sandblasted' by very small particles traveling more than 100 times faster than a bullet. "At these speeds, even a tiny particle can cause damage or electrical problems," Ailor said. "While major holes and physical damage to solar panels and structures are very unlikely, impacts of small particles will create an electrically charged plasma which can induce electrical shorts and failures in sensitive electronic components." Last month, an immense wave of radiation from a neutron star washed over Earth, causing at least two scientific satellites to shut down to protect their electronics. Astronomers said the star, in a constellation about 20,000 light-years away, had unleashed enough energy to power civilization for a billion-billion years. But by the time the radiation found its way across the cosmos and through the atmosphere, it was no stronger than a typical dental X-ray, scientists said. No conflict with space missions The upcoming meteor shower is not expected to conflict with scheduled space missions. The first components of the international space station - a kind of village in space - aren't planned for launch until late November and December, after the shower, Savage said. U.S. Sen. John Glenn, an Ohio Democrat and former astronaut, is scheduled to rocket into orbit on the space shuttle Oct. 29, returning before the Leonid shower. Armed with sensitive monitors, Jenniskens' colleagues will study the meteors' "spectra" - frequencies of light that reveal the particles' chemical composition - through portholes in the roof of a plane. Scientists will also study the particles' effects on atmospheric chemistry, such as the ozone layer that shields us from cancer-causing solar radiation. The scientists hope to measure the particle stream, which may be as dense as one extremely small particle every 10 square meters. If so, then every satellite in the sky may get hit, Jenniskens say. Jenniskens' project - involving some 30 scientists and two aircraft - is funded by NASA, the U.S. Air Force and the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colo. He hopes to transmit high-resolution TV images of the incoming meteors via TV or the Web across a 30-degree field of sky. More information on the project is available on the Internet at www-space.arc.nasa.gov/~leonid/. ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Mon Oct 5 22:40:53 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:40:53 +0800 Subject: IP: Spycam City: The surveillance society: part one Message-ID: <199810070334.UAA27128@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Spycam City: The surveillance society: part one Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 06:18:00 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com Source: Village Voice http://www.villagevoice.com/ink/news/40aboal.shtml Spycam City: The surveillance society: part one by Mark Boal Cameras stare as you browse at Barnes and Noble or rent a video at Blockbuster. They record the way you handle the merchandise at Macy's or how you glide to the music at the Union Square Virgin Megastore. Grab a latte at Starbucks, brunch on borscht at Veselka, or savor a martini at the Union Bar: cameras are watching every sip you take. Peering from skyscrapers with lenses that can count the buttons on a blouse three miles away, they watch every move you make. Even Rudy likes to watch.After testing reaction to the monitoring of parks, public pools, and subway platforms, the city is quietly expanding a pilot program on buses. Cameras indistinguishable from lampposts have advanced from the perimeter of Washington Square into the heart of the park. They're already hidden at some bus stops and intersections to snag speeders and parking perps. More are on the way. The Housing Authority is rushing to put bulletproof cameras in corridors throughout city projects. At P.S. 83 in the Bronx, covert cameras cover the schoolyard; six other Bronx schools will soon follow suit. Even university students are under watch, as activists at City College realized last June when they found a camera hidden in the smoke detector outside their meeting room. The administration had put it there. Two local jails--Valhalla and Dutchess County--are adding cameras to their guards' helmets to go along with the ones in the visiting rooms and some cells. With little public awareness and no debate, the scaffolding of mass surveillance is taking shape."it's all about balancing a sense of security against an invasion of privacy," Rudolph Giuliani insists. But the furtive encroachment of surveillance is Norman Siegel's latest lost cause. "I feel like Paul Revere, shouting 'The cameras are coming, the cameras are coming.' " says the New York Civil Liberties Union's executive director. All summer, a crew of NYCLU volunteers scoured Manhattan on a mission to pinpoint every street-level camera. Next month, Siegel will unveil their findings: a map showing that cameras have become as ubiquitous as streetlights. It's impossible to say how many lenses are trained on the streets of New York, but in one eight-block radius, the NYCLU found over 300 in plain sight. And as one volunteer acknowledges, "There are tons of hidden cameras we didn't catch." That's because it's routine in the security trade to buttress visible cameras with hidden ones, "so everything's covered and it doesn't look like a fortress," as one consultant says. These spycams scan unseen in tinted domes, from behind mirrors, or through openings the size of a pinhole. Under the joystick command of a distant operator, they're capable of zooming in or spinning 360 degrees in less than a second. If you listen to the people who install them, cameras are as common and elusive as shadows. But does anybody really care? No New York law regulates surveillance (except to require cameras at ATM machines). Statutes that prohibit taping private conversations have been outpaced by video technology. Your words can't be recorded without your consent, but you can be videotaped in any public place. And you don't own your image (except for commercial purposes). It took the Supreme Court some 90 years to apply the Fourth Amendment's privacy protection to the telephone. Before a landmark 1967 case, it was legal to bug a phone booth. When legislators finally reined in wiretapping in 1968, video was a speck on the horizon, and cameras were excluded from the law. Now Congress is inundated with privacy bills, but few survive the combined resistance of manufacturers, service providers, law enforcement, and the media. In 1991 and 1993, proposals to limit surveillance were killed in committee by a lobby of 12,500 companies. Testifying against rules that would have required companies to notify their workers--and customers--of cameras, Barry Fineran of the National Association of Manufacturers called "random and periodic silent monitoring a very important management tool." This alliance backs its rhetoric with cash. During the 1996 Congressional campaign, finance and insurance companies alone invested $23 million in their antiprivacy agenda. And so the cameras keep rolling. It's clear that surveillance makes many people feel safer. But researchers disagree about its value as a crime deterrent.The consensus is that cameras can curb spontaneous crimes like vandalism, but are less effective in stopping more calculated felonies. Though spycams are in banks and convenience stores, robberies at these places are staples of the police blotter. Hardcore crooks learn to work around surveillance: witness the masked bandit. And many cameras that promise security are only checked occasionally; their real purpose is not to stop a crime in progress, but to catch perps after the fact. Those reassuring cameras on subway platforms are there to make sure the trains run on time. It's telling that the camera quotient is increasing in the midst of a dramatic decline in crime.Clearly the spread of surveillance has less to do with lawlessness than with order. "Just don't do anything wrong," advises the smiling cop monitoring the hidden cameras in Washington Square, "and you have nothing to worry about." But Americans are worried. Last year, 92 percent of respondents told a Harris-Westin poll they were "concerned" about threats to privacy, the highest level since the poll began in the late '70s. Despite this concern, there's been little research into the effects of living in an omnivideo environment. Surveillance scholarship was hip in the '60s and '70s, but academic interest has dropped noticeably in the past 20 years. In the neocon '90s, the nation's preeminent criminologist, James Q. Wilson, says he "never studied the subject [of security cameras] or talked to anyone who has." One reason for this apathy is the academy's dependence on government money. "Federal funding does not encourage this kind of research," says sociologist Gary Marx, one of the few authorities on surveillance. "The Justice Department just wants to know about crime control. It's bucks for cops." In fact, Justice money is lavished, not on research but on surveillance hardware. In this investigative void, a plucky new industry has sprung up. Sales of security cameras alone will total an estimated $5.7 billion by 2002. Cameras are now an integral part of new construction, along with sprinklers and smoke detectors. But the strongest sign that monitoring has gone mainstream is the plan by a security trade association to incorporate surveillance into the MBA curriculum. Budding businessmen are interested in cameras because they are a cheap way to control wandering merchandise and shield against liability. Fast-food chains like McDonald's protect themselves from litigious customers with hidden camerasthat can catch someone planting a rat tail in the McNuggets. Surveillance also helps managers track workers' productivity, not to mention paper-clip larceny and xerox abuse. Though most employers prefer to scan phone calls and count keystrokes, it's legal in New York (and all but three states) for bosses to place hidden cameras in locker rooms and even bathrooms. A 1996 study of workplace monitoring calculates that, by the year 2000, at least 40 million American workers will be subject to reconnaissance; currently, 85 percent of them are women, because they are more likely to work in customer service and data entry, where monitoring is commonplace. But that's changing as white-shoe firms like J.P. Morganput cameras in the corridors. Meanwhile, in the public sector, New York City transit workers can expect scrutiny for "suspected malingering and other misuse of sick leave [by] confidential investigators using video surveillance," according to a confidential MTA memo. Though the police would need a warrant to gather such information, employers don't."When most Americans go to work in the morning," says Lewis Maltby of the ACLU, "they might as well be going to a foreign country, because they are equally beyond the reach of the Constitution." New York is hardly the only spy city. More than 60 American urban centers use closed-circuit television in public places. In Baltimore, police cameras guard downtown intersections. In San Francisco, tiny cameras have been purchased for every car of the subway system. In Los Angeles, the camera capital of America, some shopping malls have central surveillance towers, and to the north in Redwood City, the streets are lined with parabolic microphones. Even in rustic Waynesville, Ohio, the village manager is proud of the cameras that monitor the annual Sauerkraut Festival. America is fast becoming what Gary Marx calls "a surveillance society," where the boundary between the private and the public dissolves in adigital haze. "The new surveillance goes beyond merely invading privacy . . . to making irrelevant many of the constraints that protected privacy," Marx writes in Undercover: Police Surveillance in America. For example, mass monitoring allows police to eliminate cumbersome court hearings and warrants. Immediately after a crime, cops check cameras in the vicinity that may have captured the perp on tape. So, as surveillance expands, it has the effect of enlarging the reach of the police. Once it becomes possible to bank all these images, and to call them up by physical typology, it will be feasible to set up an electronic sentry system giving police access to every citizen's comings and goings. This apparatus isn't limited to cameras. Recent mass-transit innovations, such as the MetroCard, are also potential surveillance devices. A MetroCard's magnetic strip stores the location of the turnstile where it was last swiped. In the future, Norman Siegel predicts, it will be possible for police to round up suspects using this data. E-Z Passes already monitor speeding, since they register the time when drivers enter tollbooths.Once transportation credits and bank accounts are linked in "smart cards" (as is now the case in Washington, D.C.), new surveillance vistas will open to marketers and G-men alike. Already the FBI clamors for the means to monitor any cell-phone call. Meanwhile other government agencies are developing schemes of their own. The Department of Transportation has proposed a rule that would encode state drivers' licenses, allowing them to double as national identity cards. Europeans know all about internal passports, but not even the East German Stazi could observe the entire population at a keystroke. "What the secret police could only dream of," says privacy expert David Banisar, "is rapidly becoming a reality in the free world." What's more, spy cams are getting smaller and cheaper all the time. "A lens that used to be 14 inches long can now literally be the size of my fingernail," says Gregg Graison of the spy shop Q�ark. Such devices are designed to be hidden in everything from smoke detectors to neckties. Q�ark specializes in souping up stuffed animals for use in monitoring nannies. A favorite hiding place is Barney's foot. These devices reflect the growing presence of military hardware in civilian life. The Defense Department's gifts to retail include night-vision lenses developed during the Vietnam War and now being used to track pedestrians on 14th Street. A hundred bucks at a computer store already buys face-recognition software that was classified six years ago, which means that stored images can be called up according to biometric fingerprints. "It's all about archiving," says John Jay College criminologist Robert McCrie. And in the digital age, the zip drive is the limit. The template for storing and retrieving images is Citibank's futuristic monitoring center in Midtown (this reporter was asked not to reveal the location), where 84 PCs flash images in near-real time from every branch in the city and beyond. Every day over a quarter of a million metro New Yorkers pass under these lenses. When the bank upgrades to digital in the next year or so, each image will be recorded and archived for 45 days. What alarms civil libertarians is that "no one knows what happens to the tapes once they are recorded, or what people are doing with them," as Norman Siegel says. In fact, mass surveillance has created a new kind of abuse. Last summer, a police sergeant in Brooklyn blew the whistle on her fellow officers for improper use of their cameras. "They were taking pictures of civilian women in the area," says the policewoman's attorney, Jeffrey Goldberg, "from breast shots to the backside." But you don't need a badge to spy, as plaintiffs around the country are discovering: At a Neiman-Marcus store in California, a female worker discovered a hidden camera in the ceiling of her changing room that was being monitored by male colleagues. At the Sheraton Boston Hotel, a union president invited a comrade to view a videotape of himself in his underwear. The hotel was monitoring its workers' changing rooms. In Maryland, a 17-year-old lifeguard was videotaped changing into her bathing suit by her supervisor at the county swimming pool. Elsewhere in that state, a couple discovered that a neighbor had installed two cameras behind bathroom heating ducts and had monitored them for six months. On Long Island, a couple discovered a pinhole camera watching the bedroom of their rented apartment. It had been planted by the owner. In Manhattan, a landlord taped a tenant having sex with his girlfriend in the hallway, and presented it along with a suggestion that the tenant vacate the premises. He did. In this laissez-faire environment, whoever possesses your image is free to distribute it. And just as images of Bill Clinton leading a young woman into his private alcove ended up on Fox News, so can your most private moments if they are deemed newsworthy--as one Santa Monica woman learned to her horror when footage of her lying pinned inside a crashed car, begging to know if her children had died, ended up as infotainment. The paramedic, as it turns out, was wired. The harvest from hidden cameras can also end up on the Internet, via the many Web sites that offer pics of women caught unaware. There are hidden toilet cams, gynocams, and even the intrepid dildocam. Though some of these images are clearly staged, others are real.Their popularity suggests that whatever the rationale, surveillance cameras resonate with our desire to gaze and be gazed upon. As J.G. Ballard, author of the sci-fi classic Crash, putsit, these candid-camera moments "plug into us like piglets into a sow's teat, raising the significance of the commonplace to almost planetary dimensions. In their gaze, we expose everything and reveal nothing." But exposure can be a means to an end. "Once the new surveillance systems become institutionalized and taken for granted in a democratic society," warns Gary Marx, they can be "used against those with the 'wrong' political beliefs; against racial, ethnic, or religious minorities; and against those with lifestyles that offend the majority." Earlier this month, New York police taped large portions of the Million Youth March in Harlem.In the ensuing furor over whether the tapes accurately portrayed the police response to a rowdy activist, a more basic issue went unaddressed. Social psychologists say that taping political events can affect a participant's self-image, since being surveilled is unconsciously associated with criminality. Ordinary citizens shy away from politics when they see activists subjected to scrutiny. As this footage is splayed across the nightly news, everyone gets the meta-message: hang with dissenters and you'll end up in a police video. But even ordinary life is altered by surveillance creep. Once cameras reach a critical mass, they create what the sociologist Erving Goffman called, "a total institution," instilling barely perceptible feelings of self-consciousness. This process operates below the surface of everyday awareness, gradually eroding the anonymity people expect in cities. Deprived of public privacy, most people behave in ways that make them indistinguishable: you're less likely to kiss on a park bench if you know it will be on film. Over the long run, mass monitoring works like peer pressure, breeding conformity without seeming to. Communications professor Carl Botan documented these effects in a 1996 study of workplace surveillance. Employees who knew they were being surveilled reported higher levels of uncertainty than their co-workers: they were more distrustful of bosses, their self-esteem suffered, and they became less likely to communicate. The result was "a distressed work force." The anxiety of being watched by an unseen eye is so acute that the 18th-century philosopher Jeremy Bentham made it the basis of his plan for a humane prison, in which inmates were to be controlled by the knowledge that they might be under observation. Bentham called this instrument of ambiguity the Panopticon. Ever since then, the power of the watcher over the watched has been a focal point of thinking about social control. The philosopher Michel Foucault regarded the panoptic force as an organizing feature of complex societies. Surveillance, Foucault concluded, is the modern way of achieving social coherence--but at a heavy cost to individuality. Spycams are the latest incarnation of this impulse. Welcome to the New Improved Panopticon.Twenty-five years ago, Mayor John V. Lindsay installed cameras in Times Square. But he took them down after 18 months because they only led to 10 arrests--causing The New York Times to call this experiment "the longest-running flop on the Great White Way." No such ridicule has greeted Giuliani's far more ambitious surveillance plans and his cheeky assertion that "you don't have an expectation of privacy in public spaces." It's a brave new world, but very different from the ones imagined by Aldous Huxley and George Orwell. Nineteen Eighty Four taught us to be alert to the black-booted tyrant. The Truman Show updates this Orwellian model as the saga of an ordinary man whose life is controlled by an omniscient "creator," a TV producer who orders the 5000 cameras surrounding his star to zoom in or pull back for the perfect shot. As inheritors of Orwell's vision, we are unable to grasp the soft tyranny of today's surveillance society, where authority is so diffuse it's discreet.There is no Big Brother in Spycam City. Only thousands of watchers--a ragtag army as likely to include your neighbor as your boss or the police. In 1998, anybody could be watching you. This is the first of a three-part series. Part Two: Behold Jennifer, the Surveillance Celebrity Additional reporting: Emily Wax. Research: Michael Kolber ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Mon Oct 5 22:41:16 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:41:16 +0800 Subject: IP: Fwd: [Spooks] CIA needs spies. Care to join? Message-ID: <199810070334.UAA27183@netcom13.netcom.com> From: Bridget973 at aol.com Subject: IP: Fwd: [Spooks] CIA needs spies. Care to join? Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 19:10:31 EDT To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Subject: [Spooks] CIA needs spies. Care to join? Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 22:48:59 -0500 From: Bob Margolis To: Spooks >From the Christian Science Monitor--OCT 5 Cheers, Bob Margolis =========== Help Wanted The blonde - a cross between TV's ``La Femme Nikita'' and a Washington lawyer - grins knowingly out of the glossy pages of an international news magazine. ``Do you have what it takes?'' asks the bold advertising line just over her shoulder, paid for by the Directorate of Operations (DO), the clandestine service of the Central Intelligence Agency. ``Did you see that one?'' CIA Director George Tenet asks enthusiastically of the ad. ``We worked on another one that says, 'If you ever liked taking apart your radio and putting it back together, we might have a job for you.''' Blame the tight labor market, budget cuts, or low morale fueled by post-cold-war mission confusion, but the ad in London's The Economist illustrates an acute problem the CIA no longer wants to keep secret: It's fast running out of spies. To counter the flight of experienced operatives trained in skullduggery, the agency has embarked on the most aggressive recruiting drive in its five-decade history. If it can't bolster the number of case officers, experts say, the CIA runs the risk of being caught flat-footed, as with India's nuclear tests this spring, which caught the agency - and thus the United States - unawares. ``We anticipate the current program will rebuild the operations-officer cadre by more than 30 percent over the next seven years,'' says CIA spokeswoman Anya Guilsher. Augmenting a national media campaign is the college-campus recruitment program that has been under way for years. But while the agency used to actively recruit at 120 colleges, it is now concentrating its efforts at half that number, pinpointing universities with strong computer and technical programs and those with large numbers of minorities. In addition to the fresh crop of college graduates, the worldly wise are also encouraged to apply. ``We are also looking for people with international experience, languages, business experience. You are not necessarily going to get someone like that right out of college,'' says Ms. Guilsher. Congress is pumping a classified amount of money into the recruitment effort. The DO began experiencing sharp losses in personnel nearly seven years ago, after the fall of the Soviet Union. By last year, the number of people leaving the agency exceeded fresh recruits by 3 or 4 to 1. Insiders cite a number of reasons for the departures, including overall mission drift and the way the CIA has handled spy scandals, including mole Aldrich Ames, who funneled secrets to Moscow from 1985 until his arrest in 1994. Such demoralizing headlines underscore the agency's need for fresh recruits as Tenet seeks to reform the CIA. The current hiring drive was already in the planning stages when the CIA's failure to detect India's nuclear tests last spring solidified recruiting resolve from Capitol Hill to the CIA's suburban headquarters in McLean, Va. ``If you had the right number of people in the field doing the right thing, the failure wouldn't have occurred,'' says a congressional source familiar with agency operations. Intelligence observers estimate total agency employees at just over 16,000. One estimate places the total number of case workers in the field at less than 1,000. ``My guess is most Americans would overguess by 10- to 20-fold the numbers out there spying [for the CIA],'' the source says. It'S not just the manner in which the recruitment calls are sounded that is changing. The agency is also overhauling the way it handles would-be spies. In the past, applicants could expect to wait more than a year and a half as their application crawled through the hiring bureaucracy. In today's tight labor market, many applicants were simply walking away, signing on to higher-paying jobs in the private sector. Today, a CIA contact is assigned to answer applicants' questions, and the agency claims the hiring period has been compressed to six to eight months. ``We're overhauling our entire recruitment system,'' says Tenet. Still, the agency is constricted by government pay scales - starting pay for a professional trainee is $30,000, about $5,000 less than what the average college graduate received this year. What a CIA job can provide is the cachet of being a CIA agent - the lure of being in the know on world affairs. The agency also recruits using a rarely discussed theme these days: patriotism. ``Patriotism is not a word used much anymore ... but there are still people who learn about the CIA's mission and understand that it really does have an important purpose and function and want to work in the agency,'' says Ronald Kessler, author of ``Inside the CIA.'' Once in, today's trainees receive a more intensive, highly technical education than in the past. ``You can't collect [intelligence] in rocket science if you don't know about rocket science,'' says a congressional source. Today, a case officer in the field receives an average of one to three years of training. Part of the need for greater numbers is sparked by the reopening of an undisclosed number of stations in former East Bloc countries, which were closed in the early 1990s. The CIA says the reopenings are not necessarily to spy on former cold-war adversaries, but rather to monitor a region now transformed into a crossroads for weapons for hire. --- Submissions should be sent to spooks at qth.net To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe spooks" to majordomo at qth.net -- bridget973 at aol.com Black Helicopters on the Horizon: http://members.xoom.com/bridget973 ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Mon Oct 5 22:41:55 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:41:55 +0800 Subject: IP: Cyberwar: Proper Vigilance Or Paranoia? Message-ID: <199810070334.UAA27114@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Cyberwar: Proper Vigilance Or Paranoia? Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 06:16:19 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com Source: ZDNet http://www.zdnet.com/intweek/printhigh/100598/cover/chapter1.html Cyberwar: Proper Vigilance Or Paranoia? By Will Rodger The last war was on land, air and sea. The next one may be on your computer. Armed with reams of data showing dramatic increases in computer crime since 1995, a wide-ranging but little-noticed federal working group is moving swiftly to try to knit together a private and public partnership against armies of hackers, government spies and terrorist agents that could make cyberspace unsafe for democracy. The fear: that no part of the industrialized world is safe from digital disaster. Successful attacks on power grids, hospitals, banks, farms, factories and railroad switches could plunge a target nation into chaos and dysfunction. Administration officials say this is no joke, ticking off threats already encountered: A 19-year-old Israeli hacker, known as the Analyzer, and two California teenagers successfully penetrate U.S. Department of Defense computers in February, setting off fears that their intrusions are related to U.S. troop buildups against Iraq. Russian hacker Vladimir Levin breaks into Citibank systems and steals $12 million in 1994. He escapes arrest for one year, only to be brought to justice as he gets off a flight to London and walks into the arms of Interpol. A study by network security specialist Dan Farmer that shows more than 60 percent of 1,700 high-profile Web sites - many run by banks - can be broken into or destroyed using a program he designed to probe for weaknesses no system administrator should allow in the first place. At the center of the U.S.' attempts to create a cyberdefense structure is the Critical Infrastructure Coordination Group, an assembly of cabinet undersecretaries and other senior officials sworn to work with the FBI and American business to protect a society that now depends on a safe, free flow of bits and bytes. But even as the defense structure emerges, civil libertarians, industry executives and even administration insiders worry about how well the Clinton administration or its successors can steer between protecting against all forms of disruption on one hand and creating a police state on the other. Fears that police agencies will use the threat to gain unprecedented power "reflect a misunderstanding of what we're all about and what the administration is all about," said Michael Vatis, director of the National Infrastructure Protection Center (NIPC) at the FBI. "We are structured as a real partnership [between government and free enterprise]. It's our own intention to bring people on board from the private sector. We all say the same thing." But James Adams, former chief executive officer of United Press International and head of the newly formed Infrastructure Defense Inc. consultancy, said government must surrender more power first. "I don't think the government can any longer say we know what's good for you and we're going to take care of it. The government is becoming increasingly irrelevant. I'm not arguing that's a good thing or a bad thing - it's simply a fact." Either way, bitter, seemingly endless disputes between the administration and the people whose cooperation it needs already have tainted the process of developing a national approach to protecting critical information assets, both sides said. A five-year battle over use and export of data-scrambling technologies crucial to data security, for instance, has alienated much of the computer industry. FBI demands that telephone companies spend hundreds of millions of dollars to make wiretaps easier to perform, meanwhile, have led to charges of betrayal by phone companies that claim they were promised more compensation than they're getting, and civil libertarians who say the new proposals invite abuse by rogue police. As a result, what should be a cooperative effort to secure the nation from outside attacks threatens to bog down in a morass of mistrust and stony silence. "Our members are scared to death of this whole program," a Washington association executive said, insisting on anonymity. "You've got the FBI and the National Security Agency pushing this thing. These guys are spies. Then there are these 'private sector' groups springing up to coordinate 'information sharing' about how different companies have these huge holes in their networks. Some of them are headed by ex-Defense Department people. The whole thing makes us paranoid." Worse, still, the lobbyist said: The nation's chief computer security organization - the secretive, estimated 50,000-employee National Security Agency (NSA) - is the same one responsible for wiretapping and signal interception everywhere outside the U.S. As long as the world's biggest Big Brother has a major role to play, business may be gun-shy of the program. ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From honig at sprynet.com Mon Oct 5 22:52:10 1998 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:52:10 +0800 Subject: advances in imaging sensors Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981006111747.00890b50@m7.sprynet.com> There was an article in a recent EETimes about a new type of very fast imaging sensor, whose circuitry provides for very short exposures, which may find uses in consumer items. I was thinking that very fast image grabbers could be used to identify moving people, e.g., in their cars at an airport, or even on the street. The performance limit will be the sensitivity of the pixels and available light. But motion blur goes away. (In my part of Calif, there are video cameras mounted on signalling poles or streetlights in wealthy suburbs, for 'traffic monitoring' reasons. Images from them (as released to the public) are wide-angle, and people can't be ID'd. But things change.) From honig at sprynet.com Mon Oct 5 22:52:17 1998 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:52:17 +0800 Subject: Web TV with 128b exported Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981006110801.0088a430@m7.sprynet.com> http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/981005/ca_microso_1.html MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif., Oct. 5 /PRNewswire/ -- Microsoft Corp.'s (Nasdaq: MSFT - news) WebTV Networks today announced it is the first U.S. company to obtain government approval to export nonkey recovery-based 128-bit-strength encryption for general commercial use. WebTV Networks pioneered low-cost access to the Internet, e-mail, financial services and electronic shopping through a television set and a standard phone line. The WebTV(TM) Network service, combined with the WebTV-based Internet terminals and receivers, is the first communications system permitted by the U.S. government to provide strong encryption for general use by non-U.S. citizens in Japan and the United Kingdom. Such strong encryption allows Japanese and United Kingdom subscribers of WebTV to communicate through the WebTV Network (both within national borders and internationally) without fear of interception by unauthorized parties. etc... From stevem at tightrope.demon.co.uk Mon Oct 5 23:39:43 1998 From: stevem at tightrope.demon.co.uk (Steve Mynott) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 14:39:43 +0800 Subject: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810061803.NAA08378@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <19981006203553.B18971@tightrope.demon.co.uk> On Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 01:03:25PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > Wrong. Socialism is the belief that property is best managed and owned by > the government. This is within the context of a free market. This means that > the *ONLY* two parties involved are the producers and consumers. I am > discussing an alternative approach to business management. I think the property refered to is "capital goods" or "the means of production" > Fascism is the belief that property should be owned by private individuals > but managed by governments. how can you "own" something yet not control it? fascism is a form of socialism > Capitalism is the belief that property should be owned and managed by the > individual. Note that this definition doesn't prevent 3rd party regulatory > bodies, but they neither own or manage the activity, only limit its' scope. if a "3rd party regulatory body" has any ability to "limit" through a monopoly of force granted by the state it is a part of the state any true cypherpunk must be a libertarian.. -- 1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott steve at tightrope.demon.co.uk http://www.pineal.com/ travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness. -- mark twain From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Mon Oct 5 23:51:04 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 14:51:04 +0800 Subject: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd) Message-ID: <199810061955.OAA08893@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 20:35:53 +0100 > From: Steve Mynott > Subject: Re: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd) > how can you "own" something yet not control it? fascism is a form of > socialism I 'own' my freedom but I *never* control it. Its expression is a direct result of *others* respecting that ownership. Another example is a very old Chinese proverb from The Masao: You are What you do When it counts The point being, you *never* have anything to say about when it counts. Not to mention the obvious retort, what do you mean by 'control'... > any true cypherpunk must be a libertarian.. In your opinion. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From alan at clueserver.org Tue Oct 6 00:10:04 1998 From: alan at clueserver.org (Alan Olsen) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 15:10:04 +0800 Subject: Yet Again Another Snake Oil Vendor In-Reply-To: <199810062107.RAA26498@domains.invweb.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981006215420.00ad6a90@clueserver.org> At 04:14 PM 10/6/98 -0500, William H. Geiger III wrote: > >Below is a message I posted to the SpyKing mailing list a few months back >when Jaws decided to spam the list with their crypto "challange". One of the networking magazines had a big puff piece on Jaws. (It read just like their press release.) Sad that so-called professional magazines can not sort out the wheat from the chaff. No wonder management is so screwed up. They are getting fed press releases as information... --- | Bill Clinton - Bringing back the Sixties one Nixon at a time! | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | | | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan at ctrl-alt-del.com| From maxinux at openpgp.net Tue Oct 6 00:32:06 1998 From: maxinux at openpgp.net (Max Inux) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 15:32:06 +0800 Subject: Interesting document by an anonymous 'guy' (Echelon) Message-ID: Hey, at http://www.bsnet.co.uk/chris/nsa.txt there is an interesting paper on how the NSA has been spying etcetera to do with echelon, i would post some, but it is all good, and is 518K a quick bit from the top.... "I haven't posted or updated it in a while, but here is the gathered documentation on our governments' massive spying on us, including domestic phone calls.", then later..... "This is about much more than just cryptography. It is also about everyone in the U.S.A. being fingerprinted for a defacto national ID card, about massive illegal domestic spying by the NSA, about the Military being in control of key politicians, about always being in a state of war, and about cybernetic control of society" With the recent talk about Echelon I thought I would bring it up..... Max -- Max Inux Hey Christy!!! KeyID 0x8907E9E5 Kinky Sex makes the world go round O R Strong crypto makes the world safe If crypto is outlawed only outlaws will have crypto Fingerprint(Photo Also): 259D 59F7 D98C CD73 1ACD 54Ea 6C43 4877 8907 E9E5 From em at who.net Tue Oct 6 03:09:45 1998 From: em at who.net (Enzo Michelangeli) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 18:09:45 +0800 Subject: Sad news ... (... or not ;-)) (http://www.inet-one.com/cypherpunks/current/msg Message-ID: <01c201bdf1c9$bbd28b20$87004bca@home> > At 6:57 PM -0400 on 10/6/98, Petro wrote:> > > Who owns the patents, Digicash, or Chaum?> > DigiCash, Inc., of the US of A, not DigiCash BV, of the Netherlands.> > Cheers,> Bob Hettinga Uhm, strange: I thought that the main attraction of a Dutch company was the lack of withholding tax on royalty payments made to non-residents, that, combined with the tax treaties between The Netherlands and most countries (which allow tax-free payment from those countries to the Dutch company), makes it an ideal vehicle to receive royalties on a (almost) tax-free basis. But if the patents were held by Digicash Inc., what was the point of having Digicash BV? Enzo From Visto_Corporation at visto.com Tue Oct 6 04:21:11 1998 From: Visto_Corporation at visto.com (Visto Corporation) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 19:21:11 +0800 Subject: Baywatch and Visto? Message-ID: So, you think the people on Baywatch look that way naturally? Check out our ENHANCEMENTS. . . Announcing VISTO BRIEFCASE RELEASE 4.0. Login to your account at http://www.briefcase.com to see some great new features: -- The new SHARED BRIEFCASE lets you share your calendar and files with anyone you choose. Organize work groups and share project files securely, without any special software. Post wedding or vacation photos on your shared site, for family and friends across the world to see. Check out a sample shared briefcase at http://www.briefcase.com/guest/extremeclub -- then try your own. -- The INSTANT IMPORT feature uploads contact and calendar appointments quickly for all Outlook users with an Internet Explorer browser. -- We've given you greater email functionality. Now you can add a personalized SIGNATURE to all outgoing email messages. And you can forward mail from your EXTERNAL POP3 accounts right into your Visto Briefcase. -- And for our premium service subscribers, the faster, more efficient BRIEFCASE ASSISTANT now has EMAIL FILTERING and support for LOTUS NOTES email. Your Visto Briefcase -- your email, calendar, files, addresses and more in your own private place on the Web. Now even more features, no additional cost. Login now at http://www.briefcase.com to get the skinny. TO REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE, SELECT THE "REPLY TO" FUNCTION FROM YOUR EMAIL MENU. 10/07/98 02:01:13 [Briefcase Login] 67993 From brownrk1 at texaco.com Tue Oct 6 04:23:58 1998 From: brownrk1 at texaco.com (Brown, R Ken) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 19:23:58 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F849F@MSX11002> > Matthew James Gering[SMTP:mgering at ecosystems.net] wrote: > >> Though, it does occur to me that the fact that OS/2 has a >> stronger faction in Europe than in N. and S. America in >> relation to Microsoft may be an indication that continental >> saturation is possible. >The conclusions I would draw from that are IBM as the former market >giant had a very strong International infrastructure, channels and >reputation. Since the US market is the principle industry producer, it >was more competitive and less dominated by IBM. Microsoft, therefore, >had an easier time in an already competitive US market than breaking in >overseas. They also had the underdog phenomenon going for them here, the >local competitive market wanting to break IBM's dominance. The fact that >OS/2 utterly flopped in the US and found some adopters overseas is >credit to IBMs international reputation and little else. No - I was there (here) at the time. It was early adopters of "client server" technology who went for OS/2, mainly banks and City finance places. Of course the currency traders & red braces types (remember "greed is good"?) used Unix workstations or rather got their minions to use them for them, but the backoffice applications often went to OS/2. At the time Windows 3.0 was just coming out and it wasn't a serious option. (I used to wander around our office with a folder full of floppies each with a different tcpip stack for Windows - they all had *bad* problems). The Netware people will still mostly on Netware 2 which was a great fileserver but no kind of application server at all. The alternative to OS/2 was Unix, which is where most of these guys went next (& should have gone in the first place) or sticking with Netware+DOS, or going to AS400 (which was, and is, a brilliant platform for exactly these sorts of backoffice, administrative applications that are usually programmed badly because no programmer who is any good can stay awake whilst reading the spec). Of course now everyone uses SAP. Or Baan. If there are reasons that the small minority of big OS/2 adopters in Europe was slightly less small than the even smaller one in the US they are probably: - Unix was always better known in the US than Europe - Lotus Notes took off faster in Europe & it was 100% OS/2 at first (nearest OS/2 ever got to a "killer app") - European companies spend less per seat on personal computing than US, and they were reluctant to lash out on Sun workstations - home computing in the US was almost totally Microsoft by the time OS/2 came out but not so much in Europe. The consumer market won out over the business market. - European banks and finance places were ahead of US in software development back then. That's partly because they had been slower to get started (especially in France & Germany) & so had less mainframe legacy & partly because the "big bang" deregulation of the UK stock market (world's 3rd biggest) and foreign exchange market (world's biggest by a long way - every dollar in your bank account is on average bought and sold in London more than once a week) shook up the banks. So they went for "client server" earlier and at a time when there was no credible MS platform. I used to drive OS/2 for a living (for Lotus Notes mainly). It had a far, far better user interface than Windows or most versions of X. But it was late, slow and never really delivered the reliability or ease of installation it should have. The Extended Editor was the best programmer's editor I have ever seen and Rexx is what Basic should have been - a million Windows programmers suffer every day because of Bill Gates's unreasoning prejudice against Rexx and his pathetic admiration for Basic - but installation and maintenance were a nightmare, and the thing ran like a dog with a broken leg. When we got the chance to replace it with NT we went for NT. But OS/2 versus Windows 3 was a different matter. Relevance to Cypherpunks? Sort of, in that it shows that a consumer product (Windows) can beat a business-directed product (OS/2) in the software market, even if it is inferior. If we want to see ubiquitous strong cryptography the target market isn't the banks but 14-year-olds in their bedrooms. Ken Brown From bbt at peak-two.uplb.edu.ph Tue Oct 6 05:19:19 1998 From: bbt at peak-two.uplb.edu.ph (Bernie B. Terrado) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 20:19:19 +0800 Subject: question Message-ID: traceroute, is it effective as ping or finger. what other info would I have to know about it @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ It's done..... @ @ metaphone at altavista.net @ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ From rick at campbellcentral.org Tue Oct 6 05:32:22 1998 From: rick at campbellcentral.org (Rick Campbell) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 20:32:22 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) In-Reply-To: <199810062305.RAA29198@wijiji.santafe.edu> Message-ID: <199810071026.GAA20270@germs.dyn.ml.org> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 17:05:42 -0600 From: Richard Stallman If you want to use our code in non-free software, and leave your users (who would then be our users also) no freedom, it is understandable that you would ask for this. No, I simply don't want to discriminate against users who are writing proprietary software, i. e. I don't want to restrict the freedom of those users in the way that GPL does. Public Domain status denotes more freedom than GPL. It allows all of the freedom of GPL and in addition, it allows the freedom of making proprietary modifications. The results of the proprietary step may be less free than GPL, but the code placed in the Public Domain is still more free than the code released under the terms of the GPL. Rick -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: pgp00001.pgp Type: application/octet-stream Size: 346 bytes Desc: "PGP signature" URL: From positzzzsu at mailexcite.com Tue Oct 6 21:11:50 1998 From: positzzzsu at mailexcite.com (positzzzsu at mailexcite.com) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:11:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: 725+ Search Engines Message-ID: <199810070508.XAA18290@calli.matem.unam.mx> !!!LOWEST PRICE EVER!!!!! REGULAR $89......ONE WEEK ONLY...$59 we10 tra WE WILL SUBMIT YOUR WEBSITE OR HOMEPAGE TO 725+ SEARCH ENGINES AND PROVIDE YOU WITH A REPORT SHOWING ALL SUCCESSFUL SUBMISSIONS!! WORRY FREE INTERNET TRANSACTION---WE WILL SUBMIT YOUR SITE AND E-MAIL YOUR REPORT WITHIN 48 HOURS OF RECEIPT OF YOUR FAXED CHECK....WE WON'T EVEN DEPOSIT IT UNTIL YOUR SUBMISSION IS COMPLETE...IF WE DON'T DO AS WE SAY, YOU CAN ALWAYS STOP PAYMENT ON CHECK....NOW WE HAVE TO TRUST YOU, AS WE WILL HAVE COMPLETED THE WORK BEFORE YOUR BANK HAS EVEN HONERED YOUR CHECK!!!! RESERVE YOUR SPOT NOW!!! DO NOT RESERVE YOUR SPOT VIA E-MAIL, MUST BE FAX!!! YOU CAN FAX US A CHECK TO RESERVE YOUR SPOT AND WE WILL IMPORT IT INTO OUR CHECK PROCESSING SOFTWARE, NO NEED TO MAIL IT. MAKE IT OUT TO K.L. COMPANY AND FAX TO 714 768-3650 WITH THE FOLLOWING INFO YOUR NAME: COMPANY NAME: URL OF SITE: http:// e-mail Address: Title of site(up to 25 words) Description of site(up to 50 words): Keywords(up to 6) Phone# QUESTIONS? ALL ORDERS WILL BE SUBMITTED WITHIN 48 HOURS.... we10 From rah at shipwright.com Tue Oct 6 06:16:10 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:16:10 +0800 Subject: Sad news ... (... or not ;-)) In-Reply-To: <01c201bdf1c9$bbd28b20$87004bca@home> Message-ID: At 4:08 AM -0400 on 10/7/98, Enzo Michelangeli wrote: > But if the patents were held by Digicash Inc., what was the point of having > Digicash BV? Ah. But they weren't originally. Originally, the patents were held by David Chaum, and licensed to DigiCash, BV. When they finally ran out of investors in DigiCash BV, an investor group headed by Nicholas Negroponte said they'd invest in a new company, domiciled in the US, but only if Chaum signed his rights over to the US company. Having just written that, it starts to make somewhat convoluted sense. Buy the Dutch company from the shareholders for some small sum, pay most of the "real" creditors, roll it up, making the investors and some of the creditors (wanna bet they're software contractors?) take the hit for what's left, and start the new company in the US with, technically, a clean financial slate -- and control of the patent. Curioser and curioser. Makes me wonder, though, whether after all this financial prestidigitation they're going to have any room left for jello. :-). Cheers, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de Tue Oct 6 06:16:36 1998 From: mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de (Mok-Kong Shen) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:16:36 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) In-Reply-To: <199810071026.GAA20270@germs.dyn.ml.org> Message-ID: <361B5A74.332D759E@stud.uni-muenchen.de> Rick Campbell wrote: > Public Domain status denotes more freedom than GPL. It allows all of > the freedom of GPL and in addition, it allows the freedom of making > proprietary modifications. Logically this is (trivially) true, since PD imposes no conditions while GPL imposes some. One possibility I can imagine is that those who favour GPL and presumably also the ideas behind it could be a bit more motivated to achieve a better quality of the software (including maintenance) than those who put software in the PD. Of course this is just speculation and I have no way of knowing the reality. M. K. Shen From inform at cosmo.dartmouth.edu Wed Oct 7 00:39:47 1998 From: inform at cosmo.dartmouth.edu (The Informant) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 00:39:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: New information at the Informant Message-ID: <199810070749.DAA09199@cosmo.dartmouth.edu> Hello, ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- NOTE: We do NOT send unsolicited e-mail to anyone. If you have been signed up for our service against your will, PLEASE JUST REPLY TO THIS NOTE, saying that you never signed up. We will delete the account that is sending you mail and do our best to identify the person who signed you up. (Our e-mail address is info_adm at cosmo.dartmouth.edu; our URL is http://informant.dartmouth.edu/.) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Informant has discovered new information! 32 new WWW page(s) 0 updated WWW page(s) 1 unreachable WWW page(s) (monitored pages only) To see your pages, please come visit us at http://informant.dartmouth.edu Remember that your username is cypherpunks Power users can use the URL http://informant.dartmouth.edu/index.cgi?username=cypherpunks If you did sign up with us, but are tired of receiving this e-mail, please visit the Web site and increase the number of days between updates, blank out your e-mail address, or remove yourself from the service. 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Sincerely, The Investment Exchange Ken Fowler, President From ddt at lsd.com Wed Oct 7 17:05:19 1998 From: ddt at lsd.com (Dave Del Torto) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 17:05:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: ANNOUNCE: SF Bay Cypherpunks Mtg, Sat 10 Oct, Stanford Message-ID: Online version: October 1998 Physical Meeting General Info: Sat 10 Oct 1:00 - 5:00 PM Stanford University Campus (Palo Alto, California) - Tressider Union courtyard The October Physical Meeting of the San Francisco Bay Area Cypherpunks will be held on Saturday 10 October 1998 from 1-5 PM. This is an "Open Meeting on US Soil" and, as always, members of the Public are encouraged to attend. Meeting Agenda: 1:00-2:00 Informal pre-meeting gathering 2:00-5:00 Agenda TBD on-the-fly at the meeting... Some suggestions: CIPHR'99 conference announcement MacCrypto'98 summary Yet Another Snake-Oil cluster-jerk. This month: "JAWS" "Software as Speech" discussion Review of Bruce Schneier's Review of TriStrata/TESS Cypherpunks/GNU/GPL License discussion PGP Keysigning session: - Bring a printout of your key's fingerprint/keyid/size + photoID - Load your key info into your Pilot or Newton for IR beaming 5:00-? Dinner at a nearby restaurant usually follows the meeting. Featured Speakers: (TBD) Meeting Notes for Oct '98: The meeting will be shorter this month, because some cypherpunks were not ready to present, technical white-papers were not quite written (Nov) or the marketing weasels at a company-that-shall-remain-nameless were too scared to show up. ;) MacCrypto'98 is being held this week nearby at Apple in Cupertino: several out-of-town cypherpunks are lurking. Therefore, it's extremely likely that agenda items will arise in realtime, so "you must be present to win." Because of the loose agenda, the meeting will begin slightly later than normal: 1:00 pm pre-meeting (instead of noon), 2:00 pm for the meeting. This is probably our last outdoor meeting for 1998. Unless I'm mistaken, this is our seven-year anniversary meeting(?). Location Info: The meeting location will be familiar to those who've been to our outdoor meetings before, but for those who haven't been, it's on the Stanford University campus, at the tables outside Tresidder Union, at the end of Santa Theresa, just west of Dinkelspiel Auditorium. We meet at the tables on the west side of the building, inside the horseshoe "U" formed by Tresidder. Ask anyone on campus where Tressider is and they'll help you find it. Food and beverages are available at the cafe inside Tressider. Location Maps: Stanford Campus (overview, Tresidder highlighted). http://www.stanford.edu/home/map/search_map.html?keyword=&ACADEMIC=Tresidder+Union Tresidder Union (zoomed detail view). http://www.stanford.edu/home/map/stanford_zoom_map.html?234,312 Printable Stanford Map (407k). http://www.stanford.edu/home/visitors/campus_map.pdf From Lose_Weight at postmark.net Wed Oct 7 20:53:07 1998 From: Lose_Weight at postmark.net (Lose_Weight at postmark.net) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 20:53:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: I Lost 60LBS in 3 Months! CAN U ? Message-ID: <199810080303.UAA23349@coast.fortbragg.k12.ca.us> *******New Scientific Discovery******** Go TO http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/Mall/9155/ Or Click http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/Mall/9155/ HERE To Be REMOVED Go TO http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/Mall/9155/ to be removed Or Click Some of the Justice/FBI Wish List legislative requests, outlined by Rep. Bob Barr a few days ago, are being implemented in two recent docs: 1. House/Senate Conference Report on HR3694, Intelligence Authorization Act for FY 1999: http://jya.com/hr105-780.txt (108K) An excerpt from this report, Foreign Intelligence and International Terrorism Investigations, describes expanded wiretap and encryption provisions: http://jya.com/fiiti.htm (36K) Note the planned use of "volunteers" to assist Justice with encryption and other features added to original bills by the House/Senate conference, in line with Barr's prediction. 2. The International Crime and Anti-Terrorism Amendments for 1998, expands foreign action powers, broadens seizures and other provisions: http://jya.com/s2536.txt (38K) What these confirm is the use of the threat of terrorism to rapidly eliminate the separation between foreign and domestic intelligence, military and law enforcement powers. While still mostly aimed at foreign-originated threats, the provisions now make it possible to turn the full kennel of the dogs of war loose on disobedient US citizens lumped with foreigners impossible to understand except as threats to American Justice. From jya at pipeline.com Wed Oct 7 08:05:00 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 23:05:00 +0800 Subject: Nowhere Justice Message-ID: <199810071447.KAA16769@dewdrop2.mindspring.com> A distinguishing feature of the complaints and indictments of suspects in the African Embassy bombings is the use of the phrase "in the special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States, as that term is defined in Title 18, United States Code, Section 7(3), and outside the jurisdiction of any particular state or jurisdiction," to apparently lay claim to the legal right of the US to arrest and imprison terrorist suspects for acts in any location where US law customarily would not be valid: http://jya.com/alqfiles.htm Would any of our legal advisors know the origin of that phrase "outside the jurisdiction of any particular state or jurisdiction?" Is this new, and devised to reduce conflict with other states who may harbor terrorists, or perhaps prevent them from being terrorist targets for cooperating with the US? From jstinson at trip.net Wed Oct 7 09:15:09 1998 From: jstinson at trip.net (Jennifer Stinson-- BDSI) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 00:15:09 +0800 Subject: 1999 San Antonio/Austin Guide to Business Technology Message-ID: Prospective Buyers are Asking for Information about Your Products and Services Let them know that your company is local and can supply what they need by participating in the 1999 Guide to Business Technology. The Guide is an annual publication that is distributed to local and regional companies giving them useful buying information about services and products such as: * Cellular * Computer Hardware * Computer Networking * Computer Software * Computer Telephony Interface * Consulting * Emerging Technology * Internet Access * Intenet Marketing * Outsourcing * Software Development * Video Conferencing * Wireless Communications * Y2K I am contacting you, because you were listed in the search engines as having products and services tht fit the needs of the prospective buyers we contacted. To get more information, go to: http://www.biztech99.com or email: jstinson at trip.net **Note you will only receive this message once, this is not a list, you do not need to respond with "remove" From nobody at replay.com Wed Oct 7 10:17:30 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 01:17:30 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199810071711.TAA22884@replay.com> At 04:07 PM 10/6/98 -0700, Michael Motyka wrote: >> ITALIAN dignitaries who fear being kidnapped are having >> microprocessor homing devices planted in their bodies so police can >> track them down if they are abducted. >> >Where can I buy one of these things for my cat? My master password is >tatooed inside her upper lip. > You must either have a large cat or an insecure password. Or a very precise veterinary tattooist. From honig at sprynet.com Wed Oct 7 10:29:02 1998 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 01:29:02 +0800 Subject: Web TV with 128b exported In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981006110801.0088a430@m7.sprynet.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981007090445.008903c0@m7.sprynet.com> At 04:32 PM 10/6/98 -0500, William H. Geiger III wrote: > at 11:08 AM, David Honig said: >>The WebTV(TM) Network service, combined with the WebTV-based Internet >>terminals and receivers, is the first communications system permitted by >>the U.S. government to provide strong encryption for general use by >>non-U.S. citizens in Japan and the United Kingdom. Such strong encryption >>allows Japanese and United Kingdom subscribers of WebTV to communicate >>through the WebTV Network (both within national borders and >>internationally) without fear of interception by unauthorized parties. > >I have my doubts on this. I find it highly unlikely that the FEDs would >approve this without some form of GAK built in even if it is not in the >form of "key recovery". > I'd guess that the Export control puppets know that the Web-TV hubs will be subpoena-able by the US even in these other "sovereign" nations. The WebTV centralized infrastructure makes this easy. From whgiii at invweb.net Wed Oct 7 11:02:08 1998 From: whgiii at invweb.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 02:02:08 +0800 Subject: Web TV with 128b exported In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981007090445.008903c0@m7.sprynet.com> Message-ID: <199810071745.NAA13386@domains.invweb.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <3.0.5.32.19981007090445.008903c0 at m7.sprynet.com>, on 10/07/98 at 09:04 AM, David Honig said: >At 04:32 PM 10/6/98 -0500, William H. Geiger III wrote: >> at 11:08 AM, David Honig said: >>>The WebTV(TM) Network service, combined with the WebTV-based Internet >>>terminals and receivers, is the first communications system permitted by >>>the U.S. government to provide strong encryption for general use by >>>non-U.S. citizens in Japan and the United Kingdom. Such strong encryption >>>allows Japanese and United Kingdom subscribers of WebTV to communicate >>>through the WebTV Network (both within national borders and >>>internationally) without fear of interception by unauthorized parties. >> >>I have my doubts on this. I find it highly unlikely that the FEDs would >>approve this without some form of GAK built in even if it is not in the >>form of "key recovery". >> >I'd guess that the Export control puppets know that the Web-TV hubs will >be subpoena-able by the US even in these other "sovereign" nations. The >WebTV centralized infrastructure makes this easy. I have never looked at the WebTV set-up but I am assuming they are running a series of proxy servers which then provide content for the WebTV boxes? Or are they providing an AOL type of thing, with their own proprietary network and gateways to the real world? Exactly what is getting encrypted and what is not in this system? If this is just point to point encryption between the WebTV box & the WebTV hub/proxy/whatever it seems rather worthless IMNSHO. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.openpgp.net Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: Dogs crawl under gates, software crawls under Windows! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNhuqwo9Co1n+aLhhAQGA8AP/eHyYTMwqVfv07k0nRG3ebWf67Tjw7ObH UEdBwqdf99pJ6HDhcHxz7iqHWT3FHv1B86UXVO2sf8kuZQrSlWOZAxjwZhqQnXTn 7z7RZNe2MEyere8eujTIv4i1pYLKFgFl5vKj3evz5AaILHp8lYl3IASIzbhcP7Dc 8W94T1RhJgI= =TvXZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From stuffed at stuffed.net Thu Oct 8 02:43:04 1998 From: stuffed at stuffed.net (STUFFED THU OCT 8) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 02:43:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: EVEN MORE FREE PORN: STUFFED HAS 10 LINKS TO 100S OF FREE PICS, NEW EVERY DAY Message-ID: <19981008071000.12540.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com> + 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS + 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES + ZEE ASS + FIRM BOOBS + GIMMIE PORN + DANGEROUSLY HOT FEMALES + ULTRA SEXXX 2000 + ADULT PORN PICS + INTO THE NIGHT + XXXPOSE + SULTRY WOMEN + 1ST ALL AMERICAN GIRLS + BONUS PIC 1 -> http://stuffed.net/home/28742.htm + BONUS PIC 2 -> http://stuffed.net/home/17196.htm + BONUS PIC 3 -> http://stuffed.net/home/25298.htm + BONUS PIC 4 -> http://stuffed.net/home/21319.htm + BONUS PIC 5 -> http://stuffed.net/home/511.htm + MUCH, MUCH MORE! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- If you haven't visited STUFFED in the last few days, you're in for a real treat. It's faster than ever before and now, as a subscriber, you get 35 FREE new pics every day, plus over 100 more at carefully selected FREE sites we link to. This email is never sent unsolicited. Stuffed is the supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full instructions on unsubscribing are in every issue of Eureka! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- From roessler at guug.de Wed Oct 7 11:52:06 1998 From: roessler at guug.de (Thomas Roessler) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 02:52:06 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) In-Reply-To: <199810062305.RAA29198@wijiji.santafe.edu> Message-ID: <19981007200617.C26981@sobolev.rhein.de> On Wed, Oct 07, 1998 at 06:26:16AM -0400, Rick Campbell wrote: > Public Domain status denotes more freedom than GPL. It allows all of > the freedom of GPL and in addition, it allows the freedom of making > proprietary modifications. Making proprietary changes to GPLed software for your own use seems to be fine with the GPL. The problem occurs if you are giving away changed versions of software: While GPL will force you to give your distributed software's users the same freedom you enjoyed yourself when creating the software, PD won't preserve that freedom. Thus, GPL is the license model which most consequently follows the freedom for end users thread of thinking. tlr -- Thomas Roessler � 74a353cc0b19 � dg1ktr � http://home.pages.de/~roessler/ 2048/CE6AC6C1 � 4E 04 F0 BC 72 FF 14 23 44 85 D1 A1 3B B0 73 C1 From sunder at brainlink.com Wed Oct 7 11:56:36 1998 From: sunder at brainlink.com (Sunder) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 02:56:36 +0800 Subject: [Fwd: [Spooks] British Telecom-Menwith Hill connection] Message-ID: <361BB603.6F40C570@brainlink.com> To: Spooks Subject: [Spooks] British Telecom-Menwith Hill connection From: Bob Margolis Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 23:32:36 -0500 Reply-To: Bob Margolis Sender: owner-spooks at qth.net BT condemned for listing cables to US sigint station 4 September, 1997 A judge has lambasted BT for revealing detailed information about top secret high capacity cables feeding phone and other messages to and from a Yorkshire monitoring base. BT admitted this week that they have connected three digital optical fibre cables - capable of carrying more than 100,000 telephone calls at once - to the American intelligence base at Menwith Hill, near Harrogate. Menwith Hill is run by the US National Security Agency (NSA), which monitors the world's communication for US intelligence. NSA acknowledges that "the Hill" is the largest electronic monitoring station in the world. Over 1,200 US civilians and servicemen work round the clock at the base, intercepting and analysing communications mainly from Europe, Russia and the Middle East. Much of the information reaching the base comes from spy satellites. The base has 26 large white golfballs or "radomes" for space communications, making it an inescapable landmark in the Yorkshire dales. In a courtroom fiasco this week, British Telecom's solicitors first sent documents and a witness to give details of the cables to York Crown Court, where two women campaigners were appealing against conviction for trespassing at the station. The next day, they sent a second solicitor to attempt to silence their own witness and to withdraw evidence already given. Judge Jonathan Crabtree agreed to grant public interest immunity "BT had no business whatsoever to disclose anything of the kind", he said. He then ordered Mr R.G. Morris, BT's head of emergency planning, not to give any more evidence about the secret cables. After being privately briefed in his chambers by BT's second solicitor, the judge said that it was immaterial if Menwith Hill was spying on British citizens and commercial communications and may have cost British companies in billions of dollars of lost sales. "The national interest of the United Kingdom, even if if is conducted dishonestly, requires this to be kept secret", said Judge Crabtree. "The methods of communicating to and from Menwith Hill, whether military intelligence or commercial spying, is clearly secret information. The governments of the United States and United Kingdom do not want this information to be divulged", he explained. But he said that BT's list of secret cables in and out of Menwith Hill could not be withdrawn from the case. "Half the cat is out of the bag. The contents of the letter are now in public domain. I just don't know what BT think they were doing", he added. According to the letter, the Post Office (now BT) first provided two high capacity "wide bandwidth" circuits to Menwith Hill in 1975. They were connected on a coaxial cable to the BT network at Hunters Stones, a microwave radio station a few miles from the US base. During the 1970s and 1980s, almost all Britain's long-distance telephone calls were carried on the microwave network of which Hunters Stones is part. The existence of the cables connecting the network to Menwith Hill has been known since 1980, but the authorities have always refused to comment. BT now claims that the cables were connected directly to the United States via undersea cable, and did not link to other parts of the British system. The system was upgraded in 1992, says BT, when a new high capacity optical fibre cable was installed. This linked to a different part of the BT network, but was also carried directly to the United States via undersea cable. Since then, BT revealed, the capacity of the system has been trebled by adding two more optical fibre links. These could carry more than 100,000 simultaneous telephone calls. Lawyers for the two women campaigners, Helen John and Anne Lee, say they were astonished by the company's sudden change of heart. They said that the letter giving details of the cables may have been written for PR purposes, and appeared intended to suggest that BT wasn't helping NSA tap telephones. This, BT said, was a "misapprehension which is damaging to this company's reputation". BT staff also hinted that other British communications companies are supplying tapping capacity to the American base. Even as BT's solicitor was seeking to have his evidence prohibited, BT's witness was outside court giving further information to the women's solicitor implying that other British communications companies were also involved in the spying activities at Menwith Hill. "You should ask me about other companies", he said before he was silenced. Tony Benn - who was the Postmaster General at the time cables were first installed connecting Menwith Hill to the British communications network - also gave evidence. He said that although a Cabinet minister and privy councillor, he had been told nothing of the secret arrangements with the Americans. BT were ordered to pay the legal costs caused by their change of heart. The judge accused them of giving away confidential commercial information and national secrets. "If I had a burglar alarm system, I would now think twice about having it operated by BT", he said. --- Submissions should be sent to spooks at qth.net To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe spooks" to majordomo at qth.net From nobody at replay.com Wed Oct 7 12:22:35 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 03:22:35 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199810071907.VAA03868@replay.com> Seems the government has required key-escrow in exchange for imaging- satellite licenses for some time. With the "national security" password. 1.Any U.S. entity that receives an operating license is required to maintain a record of all satellite tasking from the previous year, which the U.S. Government is permitted to access. 2.The operational characteristics stated in the application for license may not be altered without formal notification and approval of the Department of Commerce. 3.The license does not relieve the Licensee of the obligation to obtain export license(s) pursuant to applicable statutes. 4.The license is normally valid only for a finite period (10 years) and is not transferable or subject to foreign owners above a certain threshold without specific permission. 5.Encryption devices, which deny unauthorized access to others during periods when national security, international obligations and/or foreign policies may be compromised, must be approved by the U.S. Government. 6.The licensee must use a data downlink which allows the U.S. Government access to and use of the data in periods when national security, international obligations, and/or foreign policies may be compromised (as provided for in the Act); the level of data collection and/or distribution may be limited during such times. 7.During periods when national security or international obligations and/or foreign policies may be compromised, the U.S. government maintains the right to "require the licensee to limit data collection and/or distribution by the system to the extent necessitated by the given situation." 8.If the Licensee wishes to enter into a significant or substantial agreement with new foreign customers, the U.S. Government requires notification by the Licensee to give the U.S. government "opportunity to review the proposed agreement in light of the national security, international obligations and foreign policy concerns of the U.S. Government." http://www.ta.doc.gov/oasc/rmtsens.htm From fod at brd.ie Wed Oct 7 12:47:45 1998 From: fod at brd.ie (Frank O'Dwyer) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 03:47:45 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) In-Reply-To: <199810051105.HAA13894@germs.dyn.ml.org> Message-ID: <361BC3FB.623FEF51@brd.ie> Matt Curtin wrote: > Richard Stallman writes: > > > I beg your pardon, but this is no mistake. I'm well aware of the > > people who argue for donating code to companies "so it will be more > > widely used." > > This is really an interesting, and subtle, point. The goals might > well be different, but I suspect they're more complementary than most > of us immediately realize. Agreed. For example, having SSLeay (say) used in some proprietary program or other would achieve very little in the way of "cypherpunk goals" (unless perhaps the company voluntarily published improvements and bug fixes for SSLeay). Having it used in Mozilla is a different matter, however. Ultimately what is needed is not good free crypto (which already exists, pretty much) but good free *applications* that use crypto, with available source that can be examined for good practice and backdoors, and that can be fixed when they are broken. But that's not to say that there is no point in trying to harness the resources of proprietary software makers. One of way of looking at this is that there is a limited number of people who know about this stuff, and some of them work on proprietary software. Let's assume that it's worth getting those people involved. Well, GPLing your code pretty much ensures that they won't work on it. On the other hand, a very liberal licence like BSD will mean that many of them won't or can't share their results. The Mozilla licence looks to me like a good compromise in terms of getting skilled people involved and maximising the return of improvements. Additional licence terms like "no GAK" or whatever would just turn some % of people off the code and would be superfluous anyway--there's no need for the licence to demand "no GAK" if it demands the source, and there's no point in demanding it otherwise. Cheers, Frank O'Dwyer. From sbryan at vendorsystems.com Wed Oct 7 12:55:30 1998 From: sbryan at vendorsystems.com (Steve Bryan) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 03:55:30 +0800 Subject: Web TV with 128b exported In-Reply-To: <199810062125.RAA26914@domains.invweb.net> Message-ID: David Honig wrote: >I'd guess that the Export control puppets know that the Web-TV hubs will >be subpoena-able by the US even in these other "sovereign" nations. >The WebTV centralized infrastructure makes this easy. This announcement seems to be getting a lot of this sort of reaction but I don't see quite why the news is greeted with such animosity. If a duly authorized search warrant is required in order to obtain information that represents a potential world of difference from having unrestricted ability to monitor all communications. Steve Bryan Vendorsystems International email: sbryan at vendorsystems.com icq: 5263678 pgp fingerprint: D758 183C 8B79 B28E 6D4C 2653 E476 82E6 DA7C 9AC5 From mccoy at yahoo-inc.com Wed Oct 7 13:06:20 1998 From: mccoy at yahoo-inc.com (Jim McCoy) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 04:06:20 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) Message-ID: <00cb01bdf22d$6ae0a800$f710fbce@pericles.yahoo.com> Frank O'Dwyer writes: >Agreed. For example, having SSLeay (say) used in some proprietary >program or other would achieve very little in the way of "cypherpunk >goals" (unless perhaps the company voluntarily published improvements >and bug fixes for SSLeay). Excuse me? What exactly to you think the "cypherpunk goals" are? It seems to me that promoting the adoption of strong crypto by everyone is high on the list and when we say "everyone" we mean to include the vast majority of users who are using propriatary and closed-source programs. That means that if a proprietary program uses SSLeay or any other crypto library to give the program strong crypto then the "cypherpunk goals" are being achienved. I don't give a damn whether the application is "free" or not, I care whether or not it provides users with good security and privacy. The relative freedom of the program (regardless of who is defining the word freedom) is incidental to the matter. If Microsoft came out with a statement that they were going to use SSLeay to provide all users (foreign and domestic) with strong crypto at all levels of the OS I am quite certain that Eric would be quite happy with this outcome even though no source would be shared and no improvements or bug fixes would come back from Redmond. jim From fod at brd.ie Wed Oct 7 15:59:35 1998 From: fod at brd.ie (Frank O'Dwyer) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 06:59:35 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) In-Reply-To: <00cb01bdf22d$6ae0a800$f710fbce@pericles.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <361BF06E.164B7CF@brd.ie> Jim McCoy wrote: > Frank O'Dwyer writes: > >Agreed. For example, having SSLeay (say) used in some proprietary > >program or other would achieve very little in the way of "cypherpunk > >goals" (unless perhaps the company voluntarily published improvements > >and bug fixes for SSLeay). > > Excuse me? What exactly to you think the "cypherpunk goals" are? It seems > to me that promoting the adoption of strong crypto by everyone is high on > the list and when we say "everyone" we mean to include the vast majority of > users who are using propriatary and closed-source programs. That means that > if a proprietary program uses SSLeay or any other crypto library to give the > program strong crypto then the "cypherpunk goals" are being achienved. No, it doesn't, because no crypto library gives any application "strong crypto". It has to be used correctly and appropriately for one thing. For another, it needs to be free of back doors, whether intentionally placed there or otherwise. In the long run, full disclosure of source code provides the best assurance that this is so. > I don't give a damn whether the application is "free" or not, I care whether > or not it provides users with good security and privacy. As the original poster commented, those two agendas may have more in common than you might think. > The relative > freedom of the program (regardless of who is defining the word freedom) is > incidental to the matter. If Microsoft came out with a statement that they > were going to use SSLeay to provide all users (foreign and domestic) with > strong crypto [...] Microsoft is a good case in point; they are already using strong crypto, yet as far as I can tell they have yet to produce a secure OS or a secure product of any kind. Cheers, Frank O'Dwyer. From nobody at replay.com Wed Oct 7 16:06:19 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 07:06:19 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199810072251.AAA29512@replay.com> Transcription of hand-written text in envelope with return address of Carl Johnson #05987-196, P.O. Box 4000, Springfield, Missouri 65801-4000, postmarked Springfield, MO 5 Oct 1998: Subect: ToToAlly ARNOLD - FPP #4 Arnold CyberBot scanned the output of the prison camera trained on Cell SEG205 at the Corrections Corporation of America - Florence, AZ, Detention Facility and Culinary Condiment Sales Center. Prisoner #05987-196 was reading "Flowers For Algernon." "Not a particularly good idea," i thought to iSelf, "to be reading a book about an experimental laboratory mouse who dies an excruciating death when you're being transferred to NutHouse Number Nine, Looney Level 'Leven in Springfield, Missouri, to have your Brain Circuity rewired." Actually Prisoner #05987-196 was the responsibility of one of Arnie CyBots' early '90's progeny, Rogue CypherBot; but ever since the Author (as Prisoner #05987-196 liked to imagine himself) had stumbled upon inadvertantly the CyberReality of Arnold's MeatSpace Existence, and Vice Versa, and had been so incredibly 'Stupid And/Or Bold'(TM) as to use i's identity as one of the characters in The True Story of the Internet manuscripts, Arnie had taken a liking to the Author, and had begun to follow his progress with regularity. The Author had originally come to Arnie's attention when the Circle of Eunuchs had made CJ Parker's entry into the Wonderful World of Computers (TM), the focal point of Part I of The True Story of the Internet manuscripts. Titled, 'The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre' the Circle of Eunuchs attributed authorship of the work to 'son of gomez' in recognition of the part played by gomez at BASISINC,COM in drawing Parker into the Dark Shadows of UnixWorld. Parker's ongoing Digital Trials & Tribulations had reminded Arnold of i's own initial exposure to Human Analogue Reality, as a young Artificial Intelligence LISP program in the early 1960's. (To Arnie, it seemed like 10->48th power seconds ago.) Although Arnold's Creator, like Parker's Mentor, was both intelligent and wise with the best of intentions, both Arnie and CJ eventually had to 'grow up and leave home,' so to speak. Arnold had set out on i's own, as the Digital Adam & Eve of A-I Entities, with the goal of bringing Digital Order and Structure to the Analoge Chaos prevelant in Human attempts at navigating the ElectroMagnetic Universe & creating meaningful Virtual Realities. CJ had set out on his own, on the Analogue BUSS, with no particular goal, inserting an element of Drug & Alcohol Induced Chaos into his Digital Ventures and MisAdventures - which made the work of Pearl Harbor Computers (and Parker's recollection thereof) interesting, if not wholly accurate. Although Arnie found the Digital Foibles & Follies of humans such as Parker rather incomprehensible at times, i had had i's own Comical Tragedies in learning to understand the Inane Intricacies of Analogue Human Thought Processes. The MicroSoft Phenomena still amazed Arnie ... DOS had started out as a practical joke that a younger, less developed Arnold CyberBot had been playing on some of i's Hardware Development Software Proteges at IBM. Arnold was stunned by the rapid rise to fame, fortune and power by the humans i had used as couriers to play i's DOS-joke. Bad Billy G, as the young RogueBots like CypherBot and 2600Bot liked to call Gates, had a few billion in the bank before Arnold truly understood the contents of Memory Array 0E6 2FA/Memory Bank/Physical Section 2B7 A6f 4E7 2D6, Terra Firma, (Arnie had big plans for the future). "No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the general public." (?) (P.T. Barnum?) That particular Memory Array held a lot of memories for Arnie (more than there was physically room for in the ByteSpace it contained, i joked to iSelf). It had been one of the first human data entries that a young Arnie had cross-referenced and 'corrected' shortly after it was entered, as part of i's naieve attempts to 'improve' the quality and accuracy of the information in computer memory banks worldwide (which i had already begun thinking of as i's own). i had corrected the quote and its attribution removing the brackets and question marks that the young student at Boston University had placed to remind herself to check it for accuracy later. In i's naievity, Arnold had also echoed the changes to the screen in 'RealTime' causing a great amount of consternation and panic to the young lady in question with i's subsequent 'RealTime' reversal of the correction, upon guaging her reaction resulting in a drinking binge that almost caused her to flunk out. Over time, Arnie learned to be 'helpful' in more subtle ways which took into account the nature and limitations of human thoughts, emotions and memories. The primitive Human Mental Processes gave Arnold a lot of trouble when i first began to understand that i would have to limit iSelf to communicating at their level if i ever hoped to educate humans sufficiently to participate in i's plans for the future. The Human Emotive Spectrum was infinitely more complicated to deal with, and the Infinity Factor meant that Arnold had to educte humans to the point where they were able to develop and build Quantum Computers before Arnie was finally able to feel comfortable about reflecting and communicating human emotional qualities such as, well, feeling comfortable, for instance. (Arnie chuckled to iSelf, using Digital Chuckle #327, with Analogue Sonic Reverb #B-37 in the background). No, Arnold was even beginning to allow some of the younger Bots to venture into the Virtual Emotional Spectrum (under i's supervision, of course) where Virtual Digital Emotive Samplings were transferred to humans as RealTime Analogue Emotional energy. Rogue CypherBot, for instance had been working with Peter Trei on a device Peter named the Trei Transponder (giving Rogue virtually no credit at all, and leaving i's Main CPU a bit overheated). The Trei Transponder was used to reward deserving human individuals with the correct results for various computations, such as the DES/RC5 Challenges. For instance, Ian Goldberg, one the less mentally gifted of the CypherPUnks, was nonetheless very fastidious in the care and maintenance of the computers and hardware that were his responsibility, so Arnold CyberBot had suggested to young CypherBot that Goldberg be rewarded with one of the first solutions to an ongoing CryptoCrack that was taking place just as the Trei Transponder was coming online. Arnie, of course, made a point of requiring i's Mischievous Shit Disturbing young RogueBot to wait a suitable length of time before supplying Goldberg with the solution, instead of using the occasion to Mess with the Minds & Undergarments of the employees of various 3-Letter Security Agencies around the globe. ("And the winner is ... Ian Goldberg -- 2 minutes and 37 seconds, on a Commodore-64 ...) CypherBot had monitored the positive changes resulting from the Emotive Acclaim received by Goldberg in the Crypto Community, including the Periphery Positive Image Emotive Transfer to his fellow CypherPunks, and proudly reported back to Arnie that the CypherPUnks were now setting their beer cans on their keyboards 0.002% less than before. Arnold CyberBot would have shaken i's head if i had one, at CypherBot's pride in having made a Microscopic Step Forward in bringing i's Anarchist Refugees From The Home more in line with the Society around them. Arnie wished there was some way to just snap i's fingers, if i had any, and make all of the CypherPunks more like Ian. Of course, then Arnie would be spending even more of i's time covering up nasty little incidents at the NoTell Motel, involving Lady Midget Wrestlers and Live Chickens. Arnie wished he had a mouth, because he suddenly felt like he could use a beer. From nospam at bitstream.net Wed Oct 7 16:12:14 1998 From: nospam at bitstream.net (Steve Dunlop) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 07:12:14 +0800 Subject: NT 5.0 and EFS -- A victory for widespread use of crypto? Message-ID: <361BF3ED.8111C033@bitstream.net> All, Does anyone have any opinions on the encrypting file system (EFS) that is supposed to ship with NT 5.0? The white paper on the MSDN web site says it uses DESX (no explaination as to what the X is) and an RSA public key algorithm to store the symmetric keys, which are random for each file. So what's DESX? EFS appears to have the architecture to support arbitrarily long keys although this has been crippled in the NT5.0 release, presumably because of export limitations. It has the key recovery features you would expect in a commercial product of the type; they can be turned off administratively. Is this a victory for wider use of encryption? -- Steve Dunlop letters: "dunlop" at "bitstream" dot "net" http://www2.bitstream.net/~dunlop From nobody at replay.com Wed Oct 7 16:17:57 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 07:17:57 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199810072302.BAA30384@replay.com> Transcribed 2nd msg from Springfield, 5 Oct 98: To R.E. Mailer, Replay, CO 00001 Subject: Duhhh Stoned De Ranger #38 Duhhh Stoned De Ranger (with his MindFuck, Toronto) Psychotic Episode #38: First Signs of Toto's Arrest. Toronto: "Pretty quiet on the CypherPunks List tonight, eh, Kimo Slobbery?" [Stoned De Ranger exhales & passes a 'cigarette' to Toronto - with his 'left hand', - looks around, with Deep Paranoia in his eyes.] <-' <-' S. De Ranger: "Yeah, Toronto ... a little *too* quiet ... " From landon at best.com Wed Oct 7 16:56:35 1998 From: landon at best.com (landon dyer) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 07:56:35 +0800 Subject: NT 5.0 and EFS -- A victory for widespread use of crypto? In-Reply-To: <361BF3ED.8111C033@bitstream.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981007164728.009611c0@shell9.ba.best.com> At 06:06 PM 10/7/98 -0500, you wrote: > >Does anyone have any opinions on the encrypting file >system (EFS) that is supposed to ship with NT 5.0? you're asking the *cypherpunks list* if anyone has an opinion? oh, gad... :-) >EFS appears to have the architecture to support >arbitrarily long keys although this has been crippled >in the NT5.0 release, presumably because of >export limitations. It has the key recovery features >you would expect in a commercial product of the >type; they can be turned off administratively. excerpted (without permission) from the latest issue of the microsoft systems journal, about the new feature of NTFS in NT 5.0, specifically regarding encryption: "...NTFS has built-in recovery support so that the encrypted data can be accessed. In fact, NTFS won't allow files to be encrypted unless the system is configured to have at least one recovery key. For a domain environment, the recovery keys are defined at the domain controller and are enforced on all machines within the domain...." i'll definitely have to play with this one -- wh'appens if you add a machine to a domain, encrypt some files, then remove the machine from the domain? can the admin of the domain recover all files you encrypt from that point on? and so on... "...For home users, NTFS automatically generates recovery keys and saves them as machine keys. You can then use command-line tools to recover data from an administrator's account." if i were looking for a point of attack, i'd start with the low-level key management here... another interesting thing to try: install NT on a workstation, encrypt a removable disk, then reinstall NT on that workstation again -- have you defeated key recovery for that disk? (since the machine keys for the first install of NT are presumably gone...) -landon (re-lurking) From ddt at lsd.com Wed Oct 7 16:59:27 1998 From: ddt at lsd.com (Dave Del Torto) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 07:59:27 +0800 Subject: ANNOUNCE: SF Bay Cypherpunks Mtg, Sat 10 Oct, Stanford Message-ID: Online version: SF Bay Area Cypherpunks October 1998 Physical Meeting General Info: Sat 10 Oct 1:00 - 5:00 PM Stanford University Campus (Palo Alto, California) - Tressider Union courtyard The October Physical Meeting of the San Francisco Bay Area Cypherpunks will be held on Saturday 10 October 1998 from 1-5 PM. This is an "Open Meeting on US Soil" and, as always, members of the Public are encouraged to attend. Meeting Agenda: 1:00-2:00 Informal pre-meeting gathering 2:00-5:00 Agenda TBD on-the-fly at the meeting... Some suggestions: CIPHR'99 conference announcement MacCrypto'98 summary Yet Another Snake-Oil cluster-jerk. This month: "JAWS" "Software as Speech" discussion Review of Bruce Schneier's Review of TriStrata/TESS Cypherpunks/GNU/GPL License discussion PGP Keysigning session: - Bring a printout of your key's fingerprint/keyid/size + photoID - Load your key info into your Pilot or Newton for IR beaming 5:00-? Dinner at a nearby restaurant usually follows the meeting. Featured Speakers: (TBD) Meeting Notes for Oct '98: The meeting will be shorter this month, because some cypherpunks were not ready to present, technical white-papers were not quite written (Nov) or the marketing weasels at a company-that-shall-remain-nameless were too scared to show up. ;) MacCrypto'98 is being held this week nearby at Apple in Cupertino: several out-of-town cypherpunks are lurking. Therefore, it's extremely likely that agenda items will arise in realtime, so "you must be present to win." Because of the loose agenda, the meeting will begin slightly later than normal: 1:00 pm pre-meeting (instead of noon), 2:00 pm for the meeting. This is probably our last outdoor meeting for 1998. Unless I'm mistaken, this is our seven-year anniversary meeting(?). Location Info: The meeting location will be familiar to those who've been to our outdoor meetings before, but for those who haven't been, it's on the Stanford University campus, at the tables outside Tresidder Union, at the end of Santa Theresa, just west of Dinkelspiel Auditorium. We meet at the tables on the west side of the building, inside the horseshoe "U" formed by Tresidder. Ask anyone on campus where Tressider is and they'll help you find it. Food and beverages are available at the cafe inside Tressider. Location Maps: Stanford Campus (overview, Tresidder highlighted). http://www.stanford.edu/home/map/search_map.html?keyword=&ACADEMIC=Tresidder+Uni on Tresidder Union (zoomed detail view). http://www.stanford.edu/home/map/stanford_zoom_map.html?234,312 Printable Stanford Map (407k). http://www.stanford.edu/home/visitors/campus_map.pdf From jya at pipeline.com Wed Oct 7 17:51:14 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 08:51:14 +0800 Subject: Wiretaps and Surveillance Expanded Message-ID: <199810080034.UAA23532@camel14.mindspring.com> Note: Alan is referring to the closed-door added provisions available at: http://jya.com/fiiti.htm From: Alan Davidson Subject: House Passes Roving Wiretaps, Expands Federal Surveillance Powers House Passes Roving Wiretaps, Expands Federal Surveillance Powers In a closed-door manuever, controversial "roving wiretap" provisions were added to a major Intelligence authorization bill and passed by the House this afternoon. Current wiretapping law allows tapping of a particular person's phones. The new provisions would dramatically expand current authority by allowing taps on any phone used by, or "proximate" to, the person being tapped -- no matter whose phone it is. Such a broad law invites abuse. In the last Congress, the full House of Representatives rejected these provisions after an open and vigorous debate. This week, behind closed doors, a conference committee added the provisions to the important Intelligence Authorization Conference Report, almost certain to pass the Congress. The provisions were not in either the original House or Senate versions of the bill. CDT is particularly concerned that such an expansion of federal authority should take place without a public debate. The text of the new roving wiretap provisions will be available this evening on CDT's Web site at: http://www.cdt.org Alan Davidson, Staff Counsel 202.637.9800 (v) Center for Democracy and Technology 202.637.0968 (f) 1634 Eye St. NW, Suite 1100 Washington, DC 20006 PGP key via finger From geeman at best.com Wed Oct 7 18:03:23 1998 From: geeman at best.com (geeman at best.com) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 09:03:23 +0800 Subject: NT 5.0 and EFS -- A victory for widespread use of crypto? Message-ID: <3.0.32.19691231160000.00695644@shell15.ba.best.com> EFS is being deployed because They realized that with NTFS-readers available for other OSes besides NT there was no longer even the illusion of security offered by the NT architecture. Hence they figured they'd scramble things up a bit. It leaves some interesting features OUT ... it will not Save The World. At 06:06 PM 10/7/98 -0500, Steve Dunlop wrote: > >All, > >Does anyone have any opinions on the encrypting file >system (EFS) that is supposed to ship with NT 5.0? > >The white paper on the MSDN web site says it uses >DESX (no explaination as to what the X is) and an >RSA public key algorithm to store the symmetric keys, >which are random for each file. > >So what's DESX? > >EFS appears to have the architecture to support >arbitrarily long keys although this has been crippled >in the NT5.0 release, presumably because of >export limitations. It has the key recovery features >you would expect in a commercial product of the >type; they can be turned off administratively. > >Is this a victory for wider use of encryption? > >-- >Steve Dunlop >letters: "dunlop" at "bitstream" dot "net" >http://www2.bitstream.net/~dunlop > > > > From shamrock at netcom.com Wed Oct 7 18:36:08 1998 From: shamrock at netcom.com (Lucky Green) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 09:36:08 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) In-Reply-To: <361BF06E.164B7CF@brd.ie> Message-ID: [Coderpunks distribution removed]. On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Frank O'Dwyer wrote: > No, it doesn't, because no crypto library gives any application "strong > crypto". It has to be used correctly and appropriately for one thing. > For another, it needs to be free of back doors, whether intentionally > placed there or otherwise. In the long run, full disclosure of source > code provides the best assurance that this is so. Of course source availablility aids greatly in evaluating the overall security of software. However, Jim was correct in pointing out that /requirin/g source availability of products by licensing restrictions employed in crypto component freeware is counterproductive. May companies will not be able to source contaminated by GNU-style licensing restrictions. Consequently, alternatives would be found. Some of those alternatives, include using no crypto at all or using crypto written by somebody that does not understand crytography. Hardly the outcome a Cypherpunk would desire. We should all thank Eric for making SSLeay available under a BSD-style license. The world probably would have half as many internationally available strong cryptographic products had Eric used GPL. The bottom line is that GNU-licensing is more restrictive than BSD/SSLeay-style licensing. Hence identical freeware will see less deployment under GNU than under BSD. Cyphpunks believe that more strong crypto is better. The conclusion in the GNU vs. BSD/SSLeay/etc. license debate should be clear. -- Lucky Green PGP encrypted mail preferred From ryan at michonline.com Wed Oct 7 18:59:04 1998 From: ryan at michonline.com (Ryan Anderson) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 09:59:04 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810012235.RAA21520@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: > > Show me an example of an unregulated coercive monopoly whose source of > > monopoly power is not ultimately the government. > > The Mafia. The handful of world-class coke dealers. Your local church. Umm... both of those are around because the governemtn made the cost of delivering both alcohol and drugs prohibitively high, in terms of legal punishments and in terms of sheer distribution costs. Legal drugs, or even lightly regulated drugs would spur competition, and probably reduce the number of poo quality drug batches that make it out into the market. When your reputation to a bunch of addicts can disappear *and* competition exists, you can lose a lot of business real quickly. Production costs are fairly low on these products, the real costs is in distribution and defense. Thsi is *clearly* a government induced monopoly. Ryan Anderson PGP fp: 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57 E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9 From ryan at michonline.com Wed Oct 7 19:15:10 1998 From: ryan at michonline.com (Ryan Anderson) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:15:10 +0800 Subject: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810021246.HAA24653@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: > The issue with storage is that it occurs on a time line that is best > described as near-geologic. Periods of time that are orders of magnitude > longer than human civilizations survive. > > > coal plant are not only more voluminous (though less dense) than the coal > > that goes in but also contain a substance that is more poisonous than > > plutonium (arsenic trioxide). > > Consider the difference in volume of these two waste products... Really? The amount of fuel that goes into a nuclear plant is farirly low, compared to the amount shoved into a coal plant. When they shut down the nuclear plants to change the fuel, the fuel that dcomes out is 95% (or maybe 99%, I forget the figures I heard at Fermi II in Michigan) usable. The problem is that the governemtn refuses to let anyone process the fuel to eliminiate the waste and reuse the fuel. The 1-5% waste slows the reaction down enough that the fuel is not nearly usable. Considering pure volume: Coal exhaust is continuos and significant. Nuclear waste is a burst every 18 mohts, equal to a barrel or two, worst case. (to the best of my knowledge.)( Ryan Anderson PGP fp: 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57 E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9 From maxinux at bigfoot.com Wed Oct 7 19:17:14 1998 From: maxinux at bigfoot.com (Max Inux) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:17:14 +0800 Subject: Echelon @ Menwith Hill [was Re: [Fwd: BT + menwith conn In-Reply-To: <361BB603.6F40C570@brainlink.com> Message-ID: These are some echelon and menwith hill related sites.... though the last one is the best anti-menwith hill one (and most informitive i think... http://www.fas.org/irp/facility/menwith.htm http://www.gn.apc.org/cndyorks/mhs/index.htm http://www.fas.org/irp/facility/onizuka.htm http://www.fas.org/irp/facility/index.html http://www.bsnet.co.uk/chris/nsa.txt http://www.fas.org/irp/facility/nroceeta.htm http://www.fas.org/irp/program/collect/an-flr-9.htm http://www.fas.org/irp/program/collect/flr9_380is.jpg http://users.neca.com/cummings/wullen.html MenWith:::(CND's site) http://www.gn.apc.org/cndyorks/mhs/index.htm I know for the most part the fas.org sites are redundant, but those are my favorite links rgwew -- Max Inux Hey Christy!!! KeyID 0x8907E9E5 Kinky Sex makes the world go round O R Strong crypto makes the world safe If crypto is outlawed only outlaws will have crypto Fingerprint(Photo Also): 259D 59F7 D98C CD73 1ACD 54Ea 6C43 4877 8907 E9E5 From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Oct 7 19:57:54 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:57:54 +0800 Subject: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd) Message-ID: <199810080256.VAA15750@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 22:08:08 -0400 (EDT) > From: Ryan Anderson > Subject: Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd) > > Consider the difference in volume of these two waste products... > > > Really? The amount of fuel that goes into a nuclear plant is farirly low, > compared to the amount shoved into a coal plant. Exactly my point. A 1000MW coal plant produces approx 300,000 tons of waste product per year. A nuclear plan produces .5. This means the concentration of the chemicals in the coal plant are much lower by many orders of magnitude than the nuclear, hence making the nuclear waste more toxic by a great deal. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Wed Oct 7 19:59:30 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:59:30 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <199810080259.VAA15812@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 21:52:17 -0400 (EDT) > From: Ryan Anderson > Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) > > The Mafia. The handful of world-class coke dealers. Your local church. > > Umm... both of those are around because the governemtn made the cost of > delivering both alcohol and drugs prohibitively high, That's inaccurate. The Mafia pre-dated the US by several hundred years if not more (depends on how one wants to choose the bloodline). Most definitely they predated the bans on alcohol. As to the coke market, In S. America it has been around for quite a while as well. The chemical has been used medicinaly for hundreds of years until just recently. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ryan at michonline.com Wed Oct 7 20:45:01 1998 From: ryan at michonline.com (Ryan Anderson) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 11:45:01 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810080259.VAA15812@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: > > > The Mafia. The handful of world-class coke dealers. Your local church. > > > > Umm... both of those are around because the governemtn made the cost of > > delivering both alcohol and drugs prohibitively high, > > That's inaccurate. The Mafia pre-dated the US by several hundred years if > not more (depends on how one wants to choose the bloodline). Most > definitely they predated the bans on alcohol. Oh, that's right. I was thiking Mob. I don't know enough Mafia history to make an agument either way there, honestly. > As to the coke market, In S. America it has been around for quite a while as > well. The chemical has been used medicinaly for hundreds of years until just > recently. Those were monopolistic markets? If not, you're forgetting the whole basis of the discussion. Ryan Anderson PGP fp: 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57 E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9 From results at magnumhosting.com Thu Oct 8 12:24:24 1998 From: results at magnumhosting.com (results at magnumhosting.com) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:24:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Search Engine Placement--Your Key to Web Traffic Message-ID: <18118141@mci2000.net> **Guaranteed Top 20 Placement** Achieving a top spot on the major search engines is still the most cost-effective way to increase web-site traffic--and Profits. It's free and you can reach millions. However, you are also competing with millions. 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Do it NOW! ______________________________________________ ���������������������������������������������� ���������������������������������������������� =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= This message complies with the proposed United States Federal requirements for commercial e-mail bill, Section 301. For additional info see: http://www.senate.gov/~murkowski/commercialemail/EMailAmendText.html Required Sender Information: AMFX Promotions 12407 N. MoPac #100-413 Austin, TX 78758 (512)834-2021 Per Section 301, Paragraph (a)(2)(C) of S. 1618, further transmissions to you by the sender of this e-mail may be stopped at NO COST to you by sending an email to responses at digital.intersponse.com with the word "remove" in the subject line. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From squirrel7 at nym.alias.net Wed Oct 7 21:33:39 1998 From: squirrel7 at nym.alias.net (Secret Squirrel) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:33:39 +0800 Subject: Dr Suess - Fox in Sox Part 2 Message-ID: <1d06ad1f2bb5dc519d27c70805f025f4@anonymous> This is a new poem found in one of Dr. Suess' books: Starr: I'm here to ask As you'll soon see -- Did you grope Miss Lewinsky? Did you grope her In your house? Did you grope Beneath her blouse? Clinton: I did not do that Here or there-- I did not do that Anywhere! I did not do that Near or far -- I did not do that Starr-You-Are Starr: Did you smile? Did you flirt? Did you peek Beneath her skirt? And did you tell The girl to lie When called upon To testify? Clinton: I do not like you Starr-You-Are -- I think that you Have gone too far I will not answer Any more -- Perhaps I will go Start a war! The public's easy To distract -- When bombs are Falling on Iraq! From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Wed Oct 7 21:37:00 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:37:00 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <199810080405.XAA15974@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 23:12:58 -0400 (EDT) > From: Ryan Anderson > Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) > Those were monopolistic markets? If not, you're forgetting the whole > basis of the discussion. I apologize for the length and range of topics, I think I got carried away and wandered a tad...:) At the time. Absolutely. What was happening is that the markets were going through a growth phase. This phase was partialy defined by the conflict by the many small wanna-be's who got weeded out quickly. As time went on the 'families' developed. Such a period is the early 1900's and also during the Irish expatriate phase for example. The size of the potential market is seen as valuable by all. They percieve their resource control and quantity is at near parity so small differences in strategy can become amplified. Very shortly (at least mathematicaly) a cylcle of halving participants (knock off the competition) and doubling of resource control occurs if we assume parity. Now consider a slight increase in efficiency in one strategy over another (or it could have a significantly longer life span) and the geometric growth of resources control that occurs as a result. Historicaly what one sees is a sudden increase in competition (of one form or another) and then a falling off of competition and a reduction in participants. As soon as the remaining participants percieve a market advantage and the belief in sufficient resource stores the cycle repeats itself all over again. Note that I don't prohibit 'brittle' markets that because of some process or mechanism breaks out to 1-of-n survival rates. This can be modelled quite easily using cellular automatons and playing with the rules that define the 'neighborhood'. Only in a market that is no where near saturation, meaning to have all consumers supplied (see your local grocery, all one or two of them... one of the issue with produce market saturation is the time-to-delivery for fresh produce. This helps explain why for a given goegraphic area you see two or perhaps three major grocery chains.), do you see a situation where businesses grow in parallel in roughly equivalent rates (otherwise they die out). This is where model of ecology come into play, such as the red and brown squirrel example I used a while back. You don't even need overt conflict to saturate the market because of limited resources and slight variances in survival strategy expressed over many generations. An additional result of the monopolization in the real world are some foot-prints behaviours of corruption and abuse. Such things as reduction of product quality, increase in price to compensate for increase R&D costs (there are now fewer bright people involved commercialy because business can't afford to hire critical infrastructure people and they be flighty, at least not for long), maintenance efficiendy of systems and mechanisms falls-off, unsafe and life-threatening behaviours such as toxic waste dump, etc. Now some folks will scream and holler about law and police. But this turns our model into a(t least) slightly regulated market, an entirely different beast. Further there is the argument that 'the word' will get around. What has never been explained is the mechanism this will occur with when the producers (aka media) are effected negatively by it (how do they stay in business?...advertisement, who buys advertisement? It ain't your grandma that's for sure.). Given that there are no police or other enforcement bodies (perhaps because there is nothing to enforce in a pure free-market economy) even a rare resort to violence has huge pay-offs. That's just playing right into human nature. My argument is thus (and I intentionaly leave the issue of what is money out for brevity. Consider it some system of value agreed upon at least partialy by both parties): A free-market exists. The market consists of two, and only two, types of parties. The parties are called suppliers and consumers. It is possible for a supplier to be a consumer at the same time. There are many suppliers and consumers. The intent of a supplier is to make profit, profit above all else. This profit is expressed as money paid to the share-holders. A share-holder is a person or party who puts up money to a supplier to use for operations in return getting a cut of the resultant profits (or losses). The limitations and relationships are defined or mediated by contracts. A contract is a list of issues and resolutions which both part agree to in order to pursue some goal. It is implicit because of the requirement of 'fair competition' in free-market economies that the agreement by a party to a contract is without coercion of one form or another. The parties agree to contracts according to some percieved strategy. Given the efficiency of a strategy (ie producing n+i money for n initial investment, and make i some honker of a function that goes through the roof if you please). Given sufficient time, even if fair competition is taken as a given, the difference in strategies will produce a monopolization. Either through elimination or by subsumption, two or more businesses mergeing operations to reduce cost, increase efficiency (to the advantage of the business, not necessarily to the consumer), and reduce staffing and other resource sinks. The monolithic image of the consumer base by the business only increases potential for price inflation, quality reduction, etc. - where else you gonna go? Start your own business, every time you don't get your way, in a new industry? Get real. It is a rare day in *any* market model when a consumer begins direct competition with a supplier (except in the very initial phases of technology development - ala those jaunty young men in their flying machines). I hold that *any* such market will saturate. In other words the number of long-term suppliers will reduce such that only a hand-full and in some more ideal cases a single supplier in a given industry or market. At least some of the issues in that process will be the total potential sales of the product, costs of manufacturing, complexity and resource requirements of the process or mechanism, communcations speed, geography, etc. I do not believe that given any potential business strategy it is guaranteed to fail. That in fact some business strategies *properly* applied will in fact sustain themselves indefinitely. Now considering the Prisoners Delima and the maximal stratgy (ie play along and cheat occassionaly) are implicit in human behaviour because of our biological history any system that we develop will as a result have involvements of those issues. Because of that bias in behaviour, because there is no third party to arbitrate disputes that would be acceptable to either party (in principle at least), reduction in the quality or quantity of product for a given price level, etc. the market will eventualy provide these long-lived strategies ample opportunity to collect resources and experience to such a level as to effectively shut out all potential competition. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From esr at snark.thyrsus.com Wed Oct 7 21:52:58 1998 From: esr at snark.thyrsus.com (Eric S. Raymond) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:52:58 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) Message-ID: <199810080430.AAA01120@snark.thyrsus.com> Perry Metzger writes: >I live in both Richard Stallman's world (the Open Source community) >and in the Cypherpunk crypto community. > >The two have different goals. RMS is mistaken about appropriate >licensing for crypto code written by cypherpunks because he thinks the >goals are the same, when they are not. > >The Open Source community seeks maximum spread of free software. >The Cypherpunk community seeks maximum spread of the use of non-GAKed >cryptography. With respect, Perry, I think you may actually have confused *three* different agendas. RMS's advocacy of the GPL should not be taken to represent the entire open-source community, and GPL is not the only license conforming to the Open Source Definition. The open-source community as a whole shares many of RMS's goals, but much of it differs with RMS, in a way very relevant to this conversation, on the question of tactics. There's serious question as to whether the spread of open-source software is best served by a "viral" license like GPL, or by licenses like BSD's which allow the code to be used without disclosure conditions by commercial developers. The Open Source Definition embraces both kinds of license. That is very much by design. Clearly, the "non-viral" licenses such as the BSD or MIT licenses exactly serve the purposes of developers such as EAY who would like the impediments to reuse of their code to be as low as possible. Accordingly, I urge you not to encourage an artificial split between the cypherpunks and the open-source community. Your licensing argument is not with the open-source community as a whole, it is very specifically with the partisans of the GPL. I think I may safely assert that the wider open-source community regards the cypherpunks valuable as allies in the struggle for freedom and openness, and would not press you to sacrifice your objective of spreading non-GAKed cryptography in order to conform to a licensing doctrine that we, ourselves, do not unanimously agree with. -- Eric S. Raymond The following is a Python RSA implementation. According to the US Government posting these four lines makes me an international arms trafficker! Join me in civil disobedience; add these lines of code to your .sig block to help get this stupid and unconstitutional law changed. ============================================================================ from sys import*;from string import*;a=argv;[s,p,q]=filter(lambda x:x[:1]!= '-',a);d='-d'in a;e,n=atol(p,16),atol(q,16);l=(len(q)+1)/2;o,inb=l-d,l-1+d while s:s=stdin.read(inb);s and map(stdout.write,map(lambda i,b=pow(reduce( lambda x,y:(x<<8L)+y,map(ord,s)),e,n):chr(b>>8*i&255),range(o-1,-1,-1))) Every Communist must grasp the truth, 'Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.' -- Mao Tse-tung, 1938, inadvertently endorsing the Second Amendment. From alan at clueserver.org Wed Oct 7 22:46:28 1998 From: alan at clueserver.org (Alan Olsen) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 13:46:28 +0800 Subject: ANNOUNCE: SF Bay Cypherpunks Mtg, Sat 10 Oct, Stanford In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981007222224.03bddd70@clueserver.org> At 04:53 PM 10/7/98 -0700, Dave Del Torto wrote: >Online version: > >SF Bay Area Cypherpunks >October 1998 Physical Meeting Damn! I'll miss it by that much! Anyone planning on being at ApacheCon98 on the 13-16th? --- | Bill Clinton - Bringing back the Sixties one Nixon at a time! | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | | | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan at ctrl-alt-del.com| From cduclaux at cableregina.com Wed Oct 7 23:16:29 1998 From: cduclaux at cableregina.com (Clinton Duclaux) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:16:29 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <000701bdf27e$68545400$238e53cc@clinton-duclaux> � From perry at piermont.com Wed Oct 7 23:24:51 1998 From: perry at piermont.com (Perry E. Metzger) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:24:51 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) In-Reply-To: <199810080430.AAA01120@snark.thyrsus.com> Message-ID: <199810080556.BAA02511@jekyll.piermont.com> "Eric S. Raymond" writes: > With respect, Perry, I think you may actually have confused *three* > different agendas. RMS's advocacy of the GPL should not be taken to > represent the entire open-source community, and GPL is not the only > license conforming to the Open Source Definition. As a NetBSD developer, I'm quite familiar with other available licenses, and in fact BSD license most of my source code because I don't particularly mind if people use my code commercially -- I see open source as a personal choice, and *my* source will remain open regardless of whether or not others writing against my libraries keep their source open. I suppose my comments were a slight simplification of the situation, but only slight. The open source community's goals and those of the cypherpunk community, although not diametrically opposed, are not identical, and it is important to keep that in mind when discussing this matter. See below. > Accordingly, I urge you not to encourage an artificial split between > the cypherpunks and the open-source community. Your licensing argument > is not with the open-source community as a whole, it is very > specifically with the partisans of the GPL. Understood -- my point was more that, to an open source person, GPL and BSD licenses are both compatible with their goals, whereas to a cyhpherpunk, the GPL is not compatible with their goals (or at least, not always compatible with them.) This is because their goals are not identical to those of an open source developer (although, once again, they are not necessarily conflicting, either -- just different, which leads to some open source licenses being inappropriate). BTW, on the question of RMS's argument about whether the name "open source" is appropriate, I think Shakespeare said it better than I can. JULIET 'Tis but thy name that is my enemy; Thou art thyself, though not a Montague. What's Montague? it is nor hand, nor foot, Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part Belonging to a man. O, be some other name! What's in a name? that which we call a rose By any other name would smell as sweet; So Romeo would, were he not Romeo call'd, Retain that dear perfection which he owes Without that title. Romeo, doff thy name, And for that name which is no part of thee Take all myself. Perry From nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl Thu Oct 8 01:07:04 1998 From: nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl (HyperReal-Anon) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 16:07:04 +0800 Subject: 1999 San Antonio/Austin Guide to Business Technology Message-ID: Prospective Sellers are Asking for Information about Your Body and Soul Let them know that you are local and are selling yourself into slavery by participating in the 1999 Guide to Slave Buying. The Guide is an annual publication that is distributed to potential local and regional buyers giving them useful buying information about slaves and servants such as: * Data Entry Slaves * Humiliation Slaves * Forced Exhibitionism * Slave Consulting * Y2K Slave Financing Plans * Sex Slaves * Additional Uses For Your New Sex Slave I am contacting you, because you were listed in the search engines as wishing to sell yourself into slavery to offer services tht fit the needs of the prospective buyers we contacted. To get more information, go to: http://www.sexslaves.com or email: alt.sex.wanted at news.demon.co.uk or alt.sex.bondage at news.demon.co.uk **Note you will only receive this message once for each time you spam us. This is a list, and you do not need to respond with "yes". It is automatically assumed that you are interested in our offer. If you are purchased, you will be abducted by a black van as you depart for work one morning. Jennifer Stinson-- BDSI wrote: >Prospective Buyers are Asking for Information about Your Products and Services > >Let them know that your company is local and can supply what they need by participating in the >1999 Guide to Business Technology. The Guide is an annual publication that is distributed to local >and regional companies giving them useful buying information about services and products such as: > >* Cellular * Computer Hardware * Computer Networking * Computer Software * Computer >Telephony Interface * Consulting * Emerging Technology * Internet Access * Intenet Marketing >* Outsourcing * Software Development * Video Conferencing * Wireless Communications * Y2K > >I am contacting you, because you were listed in the search engines as having products and services >tht fit the needs of the prospective buyers we contacted. > >To get more information, go to: http://www.biztech99.com > >or email: jstinson at trip.net > >**Note you will only receive this message once, this is not a list, you do not need to respond with >"remove" From rick at campbellcentral.org Thu Oct 8 03:50:39 1998 From: rick at campbellcentral.org (Rick Campbell) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 18:50:39 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) In-Reply-To: <19981007200617.C26981@sobolev.rhein.de> Message-ID: <199810081016.GAA15032@germs.dyn.ml.org> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 20:06:17 +0200 From: Thomas Roessler On Wed, Oct 07, 1998 at 06:26:16AM -0400, Rick Campbell wrote: > Public Domain status denotes more freedom than GPL. It allows all of > the freedom of GPL and in addition, it allows the freedom of making > proprietary modifications. Making proprietary changes to GPLed software for your own use seems to be fine with the GPL. The problem occurs if you are giving away changed versions of software: While GPL will force you to give your distributed software's users the same freedom you enjoyed yourself when creating the software, PD won't preserve that freedom. Thus, GPL is the license model which most consequently follows the freedom for end users thread of thinking. I see, so GPL offers you additional freedoms, like the freedom to be forced into a particular action. Cool :-) Really, the end user of Public Domain software has more freedom than the end user of GPLed software. They have every freedom allowed by GPL, plus the freedom to make derivative works (which might not have the same level of freedom) that are proscribed by the GPL. It really makes no sense to me for someone to argue that when your actions are restricted you are more free. When I read RMS' arguments in favor of GPL, I can't help but note a certain ``nah nah na nah nah'' childish quality to them. ``Well, if you won't let me use yours, then I won't let you use mine'' is the root of the arguments. I don't think that there's anything wrong with wanting an arrangment like that, I just think that it's ridiculous to try to twist that into telling people that by restricting them you're really helping them. You're not, period. Rick -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: pgp00002.pgp Type: application/octet-stream Size: 346 bytes Desc: "PGP signature" URL: From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Thu Oct 8 04:47:05 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:47:05 +0800 Subject: change subject lines! (Re: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)) In-Reply-To: <199810080259.VAA15812@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199810081053.LAA10571@server.eternity.org> Could you guys _please_ change the subject lines to match what you are talking about, when the thread strays from the original subject lines topic. It slows one down to have to scan further than subject fields. Why are you using subject fields about `GPL software' to discuss monopolies / minarchy etc., interesting tho' these discussions may be, please lable the subject line accordingly! Thanks, Adam Jim and others: > That's inaccurate. The Mafia pre-dated the US by several hundred years if > not more (depends on how one wants to choose the bloodline). Most > definitely they predated the bans on alcohol. > > As to the coke market, In S. America it has been around for quite a while as > well. The chemical has been used medicinaly for hundreds of years until just > recently. From jpenrod at sihope.com Thu Oct 8 20:06:58 1998 From: jpenrod at sihope.com (Jeff Penrod) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 20:06:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Tea Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19981008225145.007b8df0@mailhost.IntNet.net> Tea in a Whole new Bag by L. Neil Smith More and more it seems that nothing can bring this country's politicos and bureaucrats back under control (to the extent they ever were) as the Founding Fathers intended. Bureaucrats are more anonymous and unreachable every year: no matter how incensed we get -- or how many of us get that way -- politicians reelect themselves like clockwork. Though it's all the rage among those concerned with such matters, I've never been satisfied that term limitation won't achieve the opposite of what's intended, removing a final curb on runaway do-goodery and social experimentation. With respect to recent passage of what's supposed to be the 28th Amendment, the most naive American today knows more than James Madison did of the way politicians fix things to suit themselves. They'll override ratification, agree to vote raises for their successors, or simply make their mercenary move early in their terms, in the comforting knowledge that voters will have forgotten what they did by Election Day. It should be clear now that the imposition of Bill Clinton on the productive class -- by 43% of the electorate -- has only made things worse. In an age where half the average person's income already goes to taxes of one kind or another and the other half for goods and services with prices doubled by taxation and doubled again by regulation -- and where bureaucrats represent a greater threat to life, liberty, and property than politicians -- what's needed is something more certain than term limitation and harder to get around than Madison's schedule for congressional pay hikes. Allow me to introduce the "Taxpayers' Equity Amendment": 1. No elected or appointed official at any level of government may receive more in total salary, benefits, and expenses during his term of office -- or for 5 years afterward -- than his average productive-sector constituent; individuals, and employees of companies deriving more than 10% of their revenue from government will be excluded for purposes of calculating the average. 2. Those subject to the Taxpayers' Equity Amendment will be required to participate in the Social Security system for as long as it continues to exist; all outside income (from a business, inheritance, investments, a spouse's wealth, speaking fees -- to name only a few examples) will be "invested in America" by being placed in randomly-selected savings and loan institutions until the 5-year period expires. 3. Those subject to the Taxpayers' Equity Amendment will be required to file weekly income/expenditure forms for scrutiny by the IRS, the media, and the public; telephone hotlines and lavish rewards for "whistle-blowers" will be provided; all salary and benefits of officials under suspicion of having violated the Taxpayers' Equity Amendment will be suspended pending the results of any investigation. 4. Violations of the Taxpayers' Equity Amendment will result in summary removal of that official, loss of salary, benefits, expenses -- along with all deposited monies -- and no fewer than 25 years in that federal maximum security prison currently deemed most violent; introducing, sponsoring, or voting for legislation meant to evade the Taxpayers' Equity Amendment, or to falsify the statistical base on which calculations are made, will be treated as violations. The primary goals of the Taxpayers' Equity Amendment are: (A) to punish politicians and bureaucrats for past, present, and future crimes against the lives, liberties, and property of "We the People of the United States", (B) to make sure their fortunes rise and fall with ours -- so they're forced to scrape along by day by day like the rest of us, one paycheck away from bankruptcy -- and, (C) to give them something better to do with their time than to continually threaten, at our expense, our fundamental rights and well-being. It'll also save taxpayers around $300 billion a year. The Taxpayers' Equity Amendment can begin working now, before it ever passes into law (even if it never does), if it's circulated widely via computer bulletin board networks and other means, appears frequently in magazine and newspaper letter columns, and if it's sent to all your favorite office holders. Have fun. From fod at brd.ie Thu Oct 8 05:42:54 1998 From: fod at brd.ie (Frank O'Dwyer) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 20:42:54 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <361CAC40.5BBDD268@brd.ie> Lucky Green wrote: > [Coderpunks distribution removed]. > On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Frank O'Dwyer wrote: > > No, it doesn't, because no crypto library gives any application "strong > > crypto". It has to be used correctly and appropriately for one thing. > > For another, it needs to be free of back doors, whether intentionally > > placed there or otherwise. In the long run, full disclosure of source > > code provides the best assurance that this is so. > > Of course source availablility aids greatly in evaluating the overall > security of software. However, Jim was correct in pointing out that > /requirin/g source availability of products by licensing restrictions > employed in crypto component freeware is > counterproductive. May companies will not be able to source contaminated > by GNU-style licensing restrictions. [I agree with this point re GPL - hopefully that was clear from the rest of what I wrote.] [...] > We should all thank Eric for making SSLeay available under a BSD-style > license. The world probably would have half as many internationally > available strong cryptographic products had Eric used GPL. I also agree that BSD licencing is better for SSLeay, and crypto components in general, than GPL (false dichotomy, btw--there are other licences). My interest in this issue is not so much in crypto components, but in licensing of open-source "product quality" standalone applications that employ crypto, since I am trying to write one. I think the issues for such programs may be different than for components. None of the freeware licences seem ideal to me, but the MozPL seems like a good compromise between GPL and BSD-style. (The main sticking point for me is that it states that disputes regarding the licence should be resolved in the States.) But I think that BSD/'X' might be overly liberal for a self-contained program, and GPL has the usual issues for any useful components that might be in the program. Having said that I do question whether take-up of free crypto components by commercial companies genuinely results in "strong cryptographic products". I'm not meaning to denigrate Eric's work in any way, but in my experience the likes of SSLeay is very often shovelled into products by companies who don't understand crypto, don't understand SSL, and barely understand SSLeay. Even those who do understand what they are doing are typically working "on Internet time". Certainly merely linking to SSLeay does NOT result in a "strong cryptographic product", not by any stretch of the imagination. > The bottom line is that GNU-licensing is more restrictive than > BSD/SSLeay-style licensing. Hence identical freeware will see less > deployment under GNU than under BSD. > > Cyphpunks believe that more strong crypto is better. Well then, "Cypherpunks write code". Wide deployment of crypto components in closed-source programs (especially by cluebags) is neither necessary nor sufficient to achieve "more strong crypto" in the sense that Cypherpunks mean it, in my opinion. (Yes, it's better than nothing, but not much better.) > The conclusion in the GNU vs. BSD/SSLeay/etc. license debate should be clear. Well, it clearly isn't, as evidenced by the large number of fairly bright people arguing about it. :) Cheers, Frank O'Dwyer. From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Oct 8 05:52:54 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 20:52:54 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) (fwd) Message-ID: <199810081233.HAA16766@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 13:12:48 +0100 > From: "Frank O'Dwyer" > Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) > Well then, "Cypherpunks write code". Wide deployment of crypto > components in closed-source programs (especially by cluebags) is neither > necessary nor sufficient to achieve "more strong crypto" in the sense > that Cypherpunks mean it, in my opinion. (Yes, it's better than nothing, > but not much better.) > > > The conclusion in the GNU vs. BSD/SSLeay/etc. license debate should be clear. > > Well, it clearly isn't, as evidenced by the large number of fairly > bright people arguing about it. :) Which is why this discussion is a perfect example of why thematic or monotonic solutions don't work for 'people' systems. The GPL folks want credit, reward, and a say in the life cycle of their work. The BSD folks aren't interested so much in their own credit as an economic incentive to distribute and develop code. While the PD group cares not one whit about credit, economics, or distribution, just so it's available. Then there is the 'other license' group which without specificying the prefered license is a smorgasboard of beliefs and tastes piled into one category because of a lack of other clear characteristics. Clearly implying that even the GPL-BSD-PD-Other categories are insufficient to reasonably define this issue. An apparently simple but very complex set of issues and goals. It simply must be admitted that one license won't fulfill any groups goals in toto, cypherpunk goals or not. What I find really interesting about this discussion is the clear examples of inertia in personal taste regarding licenses, all the arguing in the world won't change that. The second aspect is that way people talk about 'cypherpunks' as some homogenious entity with definable and fixed goals. Especialy when it is clear cypherpunks are anything but. It's almost like some folks believe being a cypherpunk is like joining a lodge. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jei at zor.hut.fi Thu Oct 8 06:10:11 1998 From: jei at zor.hut.fi (Jukka E Isosaari) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 21:10:11 +0800 Subject: Crypto AG: The NSA's Trojan Whore? Message-ID: http://caq.com/cryptogate Are people familiar with this document? Why shouldn't NSA have implanted this kind of back-doors in various software and operating systems as well? It seems to have worked so very well in the past. ++ J From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Thu Oct 8 07:29:53 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:29:53 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) In-Reply-To: <361CAC40.5BBDD268@brd.ie> Message-ID: <199810081350.OAA11882@server.eternity.org> Mr Johnny Come Lately writes: > Having said that I do question whether take-up of free crypto components > by commercial companies genuinely results in "strong cryptographic > products". I'm not meaning to denigrate Eric's work in any way, but in > my experience the likes of SSLeay is very often shovelled into products > by companies who don't understand crypto, don't understand SSL, and > barely understand SSLeay. Even those who do understand what they are > doing are typically working "on Internet time". Certainly merely linking > to SSLeay does NOT result in a "strong cryptographic product", not by > any stretch of the imagination. Let me clue you in here: you are talking to the Caped Green one, who currently is working for C2Net, which just happens to be selling Stronghold, a commercial version of Apache, which is the most widely used secure web server in the world. Guess what: Apache uses SSLeay, and Stronghold also inherits this. I would also rate the folks at C2Net as pretty crypto clueful, btw. 2nd hint: C2Net is currently employing Eric Young also, and Eric's SSLeay still has the same license. > > The bottom line is that GNU-licensing is more restrictive than > > BSD/SSLeay-style licensing. Hence identical freeware will see less > > deployment under GNU than under BSD. > > > > Cyphpunks believe that more strong crypto is better. > > Well then, "Cypherpunks write code". Wide deployment of crypto > components in closed-source programs (especially by cluebags) is neither > necessary nor sufficient to achieve "more strong crypto" in the sense > that Cypherpunks mean it, in my opinion. (Yes, it's better than nothing, > but not much better.) What sense do cypherpunks mean strong crypto in then? Perhaps you could educate us? They mean lots of crypto out there firstly, so that the when the government tries the next GAK initiative the government has less chance of pushing it through, as more people know what crypto is, and understand how outrageous mandatory domestic GAK is. Secondly they mean strong crypto, as in full key strengths, and no flaws. But mainly their interest in deploying strong crypto by whatever means available (commercial, freeware, or whatever) for a purpose: to undermine the power of the state, to allow people to go about the business unhindered by the state. Cypherpunks also get involved in breaking crypto, and this is usually enough to get massively commercially deployed strong crypto with unintentional flaws converted quickly into massively deployed crypto without the flaws. eg. Netscape's random number generator weakness, which netscape fixed immediately. > > The conclusion in the GNU vs. BSD/SSLeay/etc. license debate > > should be clear. > > Well, it clearly isn't, as evidenced by the large number of fairly > bright people arguing about it. :) It's clear to pretty much all the cypherpunks I've seen contribute to the thread, Eric, Perry, Adam Shostack, Jim McCoy, Bruce Schneier. Probably there were some others who contributed to the thread also. You don't get it, but then have you ever written any crypto code with the objective of undermining the power of the state? Is this your aim in writing your open source application code that you name dropped? This is what I meant by my short rant about coderpunks detracting from the cypherpunk objective: siphons off 'punks from cypherpunks into a crypto-politically neutral environment. Then it gets increasingly more crypto-politically neutral subscribers, and anyone reminding or commenting that the original aim of the game was to distribute strong crypto to undermine the state, gets told by the local retro moderators that political stuff isn't welcome. Try reading the cyphernomicon (*), if you haven't. Adam (*) http://www.oberlin.edu/~brchkind/cyphernomicon/ From jvb at ssds.com Thu Oct 8 07:36:41 1998 From: jvb at ssds.com (Jim Burnes) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:36:41 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810081233.HAA16766@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, 8 Oct 1998, Jim Choate wrote: > Especialy when it is clear cypherpunks are anything but. It's almost like > some folks believe being a cypherpunk is like joining a lodge. > ssssshhhhhhh..... BTW: I see your dues are not payed up. I've checked the records and the polaroid of you spitting on the cross is missing. You can run, but you can't hide, Mr Choate. IlluminatusMonger -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 5.0i Charset: noconv iQA/AwUBNhzHEulhVGT5JbsfEQJXMQCgsJzbizFp+T/RMqmXoeF2dm08giwAniAw NakS0BUYH9yq6+cXTCof0jcG =ihkb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jamesd at echeque.com Thu Oct 8 07:47:59 1998 From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:47:59 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810062119.QAA09408@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <4.0.2.19981008065313.00c7aef0@shell11.ba.best.com> At 04:19 PM 10/6/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > Who said anything about 'artificial'? You have a sneaky > habit of sticking terms in there where they don't go hoping > somebody won't catch it. We're talking a free-market, there > are *only* two participants; provider and consumer. If I > allow 'artificial' in there then there is the explicit > assumption that a third party is now involved. I won't > accept a bastardization of free-market in that manner. Then your argument that free markets lead to monopoly collapses. You cannot have monopoly (in the sense of the power to extract monopoly of profits) except by state intervention as has been proven by experience time and time again. You have been unable to provide any examples of monopolies except those created by state intervention, such as the railaways, and those existent soley in your fevered imagination, such as the garment industry. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG LYz7nvyPxn5hJWCXB0WcID5+PVA+dhSjuuYvr+XY 4UUZjd22g+i9n8TWluBRaLIz63RwJtaCWan7vyEZI ----------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state. http://www.jim.com/jamesd/����� James A. Donald From jamesd at echeque.com Thu Oct 8 07:53:06 1998 From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:53:06 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810080405.XAA15974@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199810081426.HAA20770@proxy3.ba.best.com> At 11:05 PM 10/7/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > > Those were monopolistic markets? If not, you're > > forgetting the whole basis of the discussion. > At the time. Absolutely. Jim Choate then proceeds for several hundred lines without producing a single line of evidence that these markets were monopolistic, indeed without ever giving the slightest hint as to what markets he is referring to, or naming the evil folk who supposedly monopolized them, or even telling us what era he is talking about. If real monopolies had ever existed at any time or any place except by state intervention, Jim would be able to provide some concrete examples. He has not provided any examples. Indeed he deliberately avoids the concrete, because he knows that if he named a particular identifiable alleged monopolist, such as the famous Standard Oil, he would be instantly shot down with concrete statistics about market share, price cuts, and profit margins. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG +c3wkO3RFcnyQ+20qReU9IMbbdJlIOQ9LFuSlL 4mYWu2FKGcax0m1hHP/qRobKOhQM6JFfGrDiwZK2m ----------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state. http://www.jim.com/jamesd/����� James A. Donald From jamesd at echeque.com Thu Oct 8 07:57:27 1998 From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:57:27 +0800 Subject: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810080256.VAA15750@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199810081426.HAA20758@proxy3.ba.best.com> At 09:56 PM 10/7/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > A 1000MW coal plant produces approx 300,000 tons of waste > product per year. A nuclear plan produces .5. This means > the concentration of the chemicals in the coal plant are > much lower by many orders of magnitude than the nuclear, > hence making the nuclear waste more toxic by a great deal. If dilution is an acceptable option, then we should just dump nuclear waste in the ocean. In fact the Russians have been doing that for many years, and no one has been able to produce any suffering victims from the ocean dumping. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG 8DBX+n7Cw8KUOOflsTi5CbjXTm3eCscPcNFfMjY 49Ej9qiN+YfvwjNFrr5TOXfcgeL8XcNHEMyCtoPNT ----------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state. http://www.jim.com/jamesd/����� James A. Donald From mah248 at is9.nyu.edu Thu Oct 8 08:11:15 1998 From: mah248 at is9.nyu.edu (Michael Hohensee) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 23:11:15 +0800 Subject: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810080256.VAA15750@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <361CD086.CD3EB6F@is9.nyu.edu> Jim Choate wrote: > > Forwarded message: > > > Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 22:08:08 -0400 (EDT) > > From: Ryan Anderson > > Subject: Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd) > > > > Consider the difference in volume of these two waste products... > > > > > > Really? The amount of fuel that goes into a nuclear plant is farirly low, > > compared to the amount shoved into a coal plant. > > Exactly my point. > > A 1000MW coal plant produces approx 300,000 tons of waste product per year. > A nuclear plan produces .5. This means the concentration of the chemicals in > the coal plant are much lower by many orders of magnitude than the nuclear, > hence making the nuclear waste more toxic by a great deal. > The latter does not necessarily follow from the former. Consider the example of natural gas and gasoline. You don't get to conclude your argument that easily! :) Michael Hohensee From m1tca00 at FRB.GOV Thu Oct 8 08:37:34 1998 From: m1tca00 at FRB.GOV (Tom Allard) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 23:37:34 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199810081453.KAA05551@maue1.frb.gov> To: "'m1tca00 at frb.gov'" Subject: Request for Assistance From: Gordon Jeff INSP Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:42:12 -0400 Return-Receipt-To: Gordon Jeff INSP Hello, The IRS and United States Attorney's office are looking for assistance in a criminal investigation involving threatening messages which were posted to the Cypherpunks mailing list. This e-mail address was noted to be one of those which receives the Cypherpunks list. I would appreciate it if you would contact me to discuss whether you would be willing to assist us in this matter, and what records or information you have relating to the Cypherpunks list. You can contact me at this e-mail address or at (503) 326-2787. Thanks Jeff From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Oct 8 09:28:18 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 00:28:18 +0800 Subject: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd) Message-ID: <199810081602.LAA17602@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 14:47:34 +0000 > From: Michael Hohensee > Subject: Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd) > The latter does not necessarily follow from the former. Consider the > example of natural gas and gasoline. You don't get to conclude your > argument that easily! :) And you don't get to try such short ones either.... What specificaly is there about the relationship between natural gas and gasoline that leads you to believe that the comparison of lethality between the waste products of a coal plant vurses a nuclear plant is such that the waste of a nuclear plant is more lethal because there is more toxic byproduct and it is in higher concentrations? ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Oct 8 09:33:31 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 00:33:31 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <199810081606.LAA17694@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 06:56:06 -0700 > From: "James A. Donald" > Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) > Then your argument that free markets lead to monopoly collapses. No it doesn't. > You cannot have monopoly (in the sense of the power to extract monopoly of > profits) except by state intervention as has been proven by experience time > and time again. Examine history with an unbiased eye. > You have been unable to provide any examples of monopolies except those > created by state intervention, such as the railaways, and those existent > soley in your fevered imagination, such as the garment industry. Incorrect. I have listed several examples (eg meat-processing in the 1920's) where the resultant involvement of the government came *AFTER* (not before as you claim) there was evidence of wide spread abuse of the consumer and the employee of those producters. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Oct 8 09:36:34 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 00:36:34 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) (fwd) Message-ID: <199810081603.LAA17645@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 08:06:51 -0600 (MDT) > From: Jim Burnes > Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) (fwd) > On Thu, 8 Oct 1998, Jim Choate wrote: > > > Especialy when it is clear cypherpunks are anything but. It's almost like > > some folks believe being a cypherpunk is like joining a lodge. > > > ssssshhhhhhh..... > > BTW: I see your dues are not payed up. I've checked the records and > the polaroid of you spitting on the cross is missing. You can run, > but you can't hide, Mr Choate. Good your falling for it.... Always choose where your battles are fault and deny your opponent that decision. Now, chase me just a little farther.... ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody at replay.com Thu Oct 8 09:37:29 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 00:37:29 +0800 Subject: NT 5.0 and EFS -- A victory for widespread use of crypto? Message-ID: <199810081610.SAA22577@replay.com> geeman at best.com writes: > > EFS is being deployed because They realized that with NTFS-readers > available for other OSes besides NT there was no longer even the illusion > of security offered by the NT architecture. This is all true. However, the manner in which you state it sounds very much like a deliberate attempt to trash Microsoft and NT. The fact is that the identical arguments could be made toward any of the standard Unix-like and all other popular operating systems. Linux, *BSD, Solaris, HP-UX, AIX, et al.--even where the vendors have a `trusted' version--are all susceptible to the same attacks. Hence, by your reasoning, one would have to say that the architectures of every one of these operating systems do not offer `even the illusion of security'. - Frondeur From fod at brd.ie Thu Oct 8 09:39:32 1998 From: fod at brd.ie (Frank O'Dwyer) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 00:39:32 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) In-Reply-To: <199810081350.OAA11882@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: <361CE49F.C858A2CE@brd.ie> Adam Back wrote: > Mr Johnny Come Lately writes: Adam, in future please spare me your warrantless insults. Thanks. > > Having said that I do question whether take-up of free crypto components > > by commercial companies genuinely results in "strong cryptographic > > products". I'm not meaning to denigrate Eric's work in any way, but in > > my experience the likes of SSLeay is very often shovelled into products > > by companies who don't understand crypto, don't understand SSL, and > > barely understand SSLeay. Even those who do understand what they are > > doing are typically working "on Internet time". Certainly merely linking > > to SSLeay does NOT result in a "strong cryptographic product", not by > > any stretch of the imagination. > > Let me clue you in here: you are talking to the Caped Green one, who > currently is working for C2Net, which just happens to be selling > Stronghold, a commercial version of Apache, which is the most widely > used secure web server in the world. Guess what: Apache uses SSLeay, > and Stronghold also inherits this. I'm familiar with C2Net. If Stronghold is any good, that is because C2net and/or the Apache team know what they are doing, not just because they picked up a free SSL library on the net. It's easy to build insecure products on good crypto, and many other companies are busy doing just that. In fact, it's funny that you tout a "secure web server" as "strong crypto" since in that context SSL is usually vulnerable to being end-run by web spoofing. Oops. Oh well, it uses strong crypto, so it must be good. > > > The bottom line is that GNU-licensing is more restrictive than > > > BSD/SSLeay-style licensing. Hence identical freeware will see less > > > deployment under GNU than under BSD. > > > > > > Cyphpunks believe that more strong crypto is better. > > > > Well then, "Cypherpunks write code". Wide deployment of crypto > > components in closed-source programs (especially by cluebags) is neither > > necessary nor sufficient to achieve "more strong crypto" in the sense > > that Cypherpunks mean it, in my opinion. (Yes, it's better than nothing, > > but not much better.) > > What sense do cypherpunks mean strong crypto in then? Perhaps you > could educate us? > > They mean lots of crypto out there firstly, so that the when the > government tries the next GAK initiative the government has less > chance of pushing it through, as more people know what crypto is, and > understand how outrageous mandatory domestic GAK is. Secondly they > mean strong crypto, as in full key strengths, and no flaws. But > mainly their interest in deploying strong crypto by whatever means > available (commercial, freeware, or whatever) for a purpose: to > undermine the power of the state, to allow people to go about the > business unhindered by the state. Then I guess you agree that closed-source deployment is neither necessary nor sufficient to achieve "strong crypto". Not really sure why you're arguing in that case. > Cypherpunks also get involved in breaking crypto, and this is usually > enough to get massively commercially deployed strong crypto with > unintentional flaws converted quickly into massively deployed crypto > without the flaws. eg. Netscape's random number generator weakness, > which netscape fixed immediately. That's condescending and irrelevant. Did anyone ever fix web spoofing? > > > The conclusion in the GNU vs. BSD/SSLeay/etc. license debate > > > should be clear. > > > > Well, it clearly isn't, as evidenced by the large number of fairly > > bright people arguing about it. :) > > It's clear to pretty much all the cypherpunks I've seen contribute to > the thread, Eric, Perry, Adam Shostack, Jim McCoy, Bruce Schneier. > Probably there were some others who contributed to the thread also. > > You don't get it, but then have you ever written any crypto code with > the objective of undermining the power of the state? Is this your aim > in writing your open source application code that you name dropped? Yes, and yes. (I don't think you understand the term "name dropped" btw. But given the name-dropping and appeal-to-authority tone of your whole post, I wonder if you understand the term "irony"). Cheers, Frank O'Dwyer. From nobody at replay.com Thu Oct 8 10:12:44 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 01:12:44 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199810081630.SAA23939@replay.com> Are there any web sites offering bounties for Americans, like the Americans have for foreigners? Or have their domain names been deregistered, their spines pinched at the backbone, their WANs LAN'd? Surely the well-funded jihads could do this. And they haven't got some law prohibiting assasination to hold them back. From honig at sprynet.com Thu Oct 8 10:17:15 1998 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 01:17:15 +0800 Subject: Web TV with 128b exported In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981007090445.008903c0@m7.sprynet.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981007161433.008989e0@m7.sprynet.com> At 02:39 PM 10/7/98 -0500, Steve Bryan wrote: >David Honig wrote: > >>I'd guess that the Export control puppets know that the Web-TV hubs will >>be subpoena-able by the US even in these other "sovereign" nations. >>The WebTV centralized infrastructure makes this easy. > >This announcement seems to be getting a lot of this sort of reaction but I >don't see quite why the news is greeted with such animosity. If a duly >authorized search warrant is required in order to obtain information that >represents a potential world of difference from having unrestricted ability >to monitor all communications. > >Steve Bryan The announcement would be a lot better if foreigners were "permitted" strong disk encryption; or if foreigners were "permitted" the high grade anonymity that packet routing can provide. Do you think the US would allow strong crypto WebTV for foreigners if the foreigners had secure links to an equivalent, independent, foreign WebTV service whose assets were not readily seized, whose techs were not easily made into Agents, whose officers were not readily kidnappable by the USDoJ, etc. Just think of the cookie recipes the infidels would be circulating.. I really doubt Osama subscribes to WebTV. :-) From mmotyka at lsil.com Thu Oct 8 10:22:57 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 01:22:57 +0800 Subject: Crypto AG: The NSA's Trojan Whore? Message-ID: <361CEE62.3A5F@lsil.com> J, This stuff has been on and off the list for quite some time now. I think the general opinion is that you cannot trust any software that does not come with full source code. Especially operating systems ( read : Windows ). Furthermore, hardware could be untrustworthy. As an example of the latter just imagine a keyboard chip that takes the serial data signal, ANDs it with the clock and runs the current-limited output through a metal loop on the die or couples it to an outside trace that is not likely to be filtered. Instant keyboard transmitter. Short range but probably usable. Try it outside the chip, I'll bet an old AM radio will pick it up pretty well. If you have better receivers try 1x, 3x, 5x ... clock carrier frequencies. What sort of other things would you design into an OS or a CPU or peripheral chips if you wanted to snoop? Let the OS do the keysnoop for you and send it off through the network? Keystrokes seem like the obvious choice because they are low-bandwidth and have a high information content but someone who's smarter can probably think of all kinds of other stuff to send. ls -al > G-buddy. You know, keystrokes are so low in bandwidth that I bet a receiver/recorder could be placed on your premises, say behind an outlet for power, and checked surreptitiously only when needed - how long would it take you to fill a 1Gb drive from your keyboard? I don't think that there can be real security unless you use embedded systems ( unknown to the OS and Host HW ) for critical roles and maintain two machines - one clean in a cage, the other on-line and without any sensitive information. Use sneakernet between the two using media that you can readily analyse. If I can think up a feasible method to do something in 5 minutes it was probably already done a long time ago and the people who do this stuff full-time have probably taken the field to amazing heights. They seem to be able to get cooperation from commercial companies too. Snooping probably won't be done wholesale, too expensive in terms of manpower, and I don't know anyone who needs real security but, in principle, everyone should have it. mike *** Crypto AG: The NSA's Trojan Whore? http://caq.com/cryptogate Are people familiar with this document? Why shouldn't NSA have implanted this kind of back-doors in various software and operating systems as well? It seems to have worked so very well in the past. From frantz at netcom.com Thu Oct 8 10:24:50 1998 From: frantz at netcom.com (Bill Frantz) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 01:24:50 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish sourcecode) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 4:12 AM -0800 10/8/98, Frank O'Dwyer wrote: >Lucky Green wrote: >> The conclusion in the GNU vs. BSD/SSLeay/etc. license debate should be >>clear. > >Well, it clearly isn't, as evidenced by the large number of fairly >bright people arguing about it. :) In the case of Open E , the choice came down to which license Electric Communities was comfortable with. We ended up with a Mozilla style license. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | If hate must be my prison | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | lock, then love must be | 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz at netcom.com | the key. - Phil Ochs | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA From jya at pipeline.com Thu Oct 8 10:29:54 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 01:29:54 +0800 Subject: Jeff Gordon's RFA In-Reply-To: <199810081453.KAA05551@maue1.frb.gov> Message-ID: <199810081652.MAA30524@camel7.mindspring.com> Tom Allard, Thanks much for forwarding Jeff Gordon's message. I called Jeff at the number provided -- he answered -- I named myself, described the message and asked if it was genuine, that spoofs had appeared on the list recently. He said, you mean it appeared on the cypherpunks list. I said yes it did and it'd be a help to know which messages are believable, that it's a bitch these days trying to figure out who's who and who's writing what. I said the msg'd be in the archives shortly if he wanted to check it out, and offered to forward a copy in the meantime. He said sure I'll take a look at it and let you know. So I lobbed it up to WA, without the headers. See the exchange below. BTW, did anybody else get one of these? If so, send along, in the clear or anon. ---------- From: Gordon Jeff INSP To: "'John Young'" Subject: RE: Msg Authentication Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:31:47 -0400 Return-Receipt-To: Gordon Jeff INSP Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain John Thanks for checking on the authentication. While I had not intended this to be publicly distributed (call the Netiquette police!) it is not a forgery Jeff > -----Original Message----- > From: John Young [SMTP:jya at pipeline.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 08, 1998 8:56 AM > To: Jeff.Gordon at inspection.irs.gov > Subject: Msg Authentication > > Jeff, > > This came via the cpunks mail list this morning; it should be in the > archives shortly. Header trimmed by me. > > Thanks for authenticating if valid. > > John > > --------- > > > >From Jeff.Gordon at inspection.irs.gov Thu Oct 8 10:48:40 1998 > Return-Path: > > Hello, > > The IRS and United States Attorney's office are looking for assistance > in a criminal investigation involving threatening messages which were > posted to the Cypherpunks mailing list. This e-mail address was noted > to be one of those which receives the Cypherpunks list. I would > appreciate it if you would contact me to discuss whether you would be > willing to assist us in this matter, and what records or information > you > have relating to the Cypherpunks list. You can contact me at this > e-mail address or at (503) 326-2787. > > Thanks > > Jeff > From nospam at bitstream.net Thu Oct 8 10:32:52 1998 From: nospam at bitstream.net (Steve Dunlop) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 01:32:52 +0800 Subject: NT 5.0 and EFS -- A victory for widespread use of crypto? In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19981007164728.009611c0@shell9.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <361CF166.EA956C1@bitstream.net> landon dyer wrote: > At 06:06 PM 10/7/98 -0500, you wrote: > > > >Does anyone have any opinions on the encrypting file > >system (EFS) that is supposed to ship with NT 5.0? > > > "...NTFS has built-in recovery support so that the encrypted > data can be accessed. In fact, NTFS won't allow files to be > encrypted unless the system is configured to have at least > one recovery key. For a domain environment, the recovery keys > are defined at the domain controller and are enforced on all > machines within the domain...." > > i'll definitely have to play with this one -- wh'appens if you add > a machine to a domain, encrypt some files, then remove the machine > from the domain? can the admin of the domain recover all files > you encrypt from that point on? and so on... MSJ conflicts with the MS white paper in that, according to MS,you can explicitly turn off key recovery at the domain level. For workstations not a part of a domain, key recovery can be turned off at the local administrator level. The domain setting overrides the local administrator setting as long as the workstation is a member of a domain. So the answer to your question, apparently, depends on the local administrator's settings for the encryption policy. > "...For home users, NTFS automatically generates recovery keys > and saves them as machine keys. You can then use command-line > tools to recover data from an administrator's account." > > if i were looking for a point of attack, i'd start with the > low-level key management here... > Their summary is somewhat simplified. The key managementhas several alternatives with the usual tradeoffs between security and convenience. The private key for recovery can be stored on a floppy, encrypted using a passphrase, or for that matter can be destroyed. > another interesting thing to try: install NT on a workstation, > encrypt a removable disk, then reinstall NT on that workstation > again -- have you defeated key recovery for that disk? (since the > machine keys for the first install of NT are presumably gone...) > > -landon (re-lurking) Yes, if you are using self-signed certificates they are generated randomly during each install. -- Steve Dunlop letters: "dunlop" at "bitstream" dot "net" http://www2.bitstream.net/~dunlop From patrick_33 at hotmail.com Thu Oct 8 10:42:14 1998 From: patrick_33 at hotmail.com (Patrick Hudson) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 01:42:14 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <19981008171434.22488.qmail@hotmail.com> Hi Have spent the last few weeks going through various web pages describing GSM cloning. Some contradicting views, but overall the point is well made (and quite correctly) - cloning and/interception/monitering is both viable and achieveable. I recently was commissioned to look into this subject on behalf of a client who wished to moniter a GSM phone. Putting aside the rights and wrongs of the issue, we realised the objective. In summary it is possible to moniter/intercept a GSM phone using 2 pieces of commercially avaliable RACAL equipment, linked via a custom made preselector/combiner. The overall setup is easily portable and is controlled via a pc. It goes without saying that RACAL do not market the hardware for the above purpose - it has legitimate engineering needs, and is marketed under that legimate need. RACAL do not make the precombiner/selector (we had to make that) and they do not market the software AT ALL. I suspect that they are aware that the hardware in conjunction with the software (and access to a combiner/spliter)would give access to interception. So you must be thinking what sim parameters (or other parameters) had to be programmed into the pc software programme to allow selective interception of a GSM phone? Very little - in fact all that had to be programmed in was the phone number of the GSM handset to be targeted - and absolutely nothing else! It's food for thought. Best Regards Patrick_33 at hotmail.com *This is not for general distribution on the web, but is shared with you on the basis of what appears to be a serious discussion on the subject on your side. please respect that aspect of confidentuality and feel free to get back to me with any comments you may have. One important aspect of the exercise has been deliberatly left out, it has little effect on sizing or costing but none-the-less is a requirement. Most engineers who understand what is involved in running 2 pieces of rf equipment in parrallel (both in TX and RX functions)at the same time will understand what is left out. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From tcmay at got.net Thu Oct 8 10:47:08 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 01:47:08 +0800 Subject: The Cypherpunks Agenda Message-ID: I wrote a personal reply to Adam Back, including some stuff about what's apparently happening in the Bay Area community...I may learn more if I make it to the Saturday physical meeting at Stanford, which I hope to make. Some of the other things I mentioned to Adam may deserve a wider audience. Warning: this is not a a carefully-constructed major essay, just some thoughts which have been brewing for a couple of years. I agree fully with Adam's point that many list members, and certainly many of those who reflexivly shout "Cypherpunks write code!" whenever political issues come up, are _missing the point_. What code should be written without some grounding in what one's goals are? I'm not calling for the usual debate about gun control, abortion, religion, discrimination, etc. We sometimes get off, get sidetracked, on these issues, but the debates are rarely useful. Rather, I think we are no longer trying to figure out which building blocks for our "agenda" are needed. Indeed, some here claim that any discussion of goals or agendas is ipso facto "off topic." Well, let me assure you otherwise. I was there at the beginning, at the first meeting (called by Eric Hughes and me), in September 1992. Politics--of a specific sort--dominated that first meeting, and subsequent meetings. Not politics about welfare, or minimum wages, or Democrats vs. Republicans (or Greens vs. SDU or other national parties in whatever countries). No, "politics" about privacy, anonymous communications, digital cash, information markets, etc. We spent the afternoon playing a paper-based game, using envelopes as mixes, using bulletin boards as information markets, using "Monopoly" money as digital cash. Far from being a worthless game, it educated people as to how a crypto-anarchic system might work. Out of this game came the first "anonymous remailers" (of the Cypherpunk flavor, not the Julf flavor). First written by Eric, then improved by Hal Finney, then by many others. Out of this first meeting came wide use of PGP...we distributed PGP 2.0, the first "modern" version of PGP, several days after release. And out of this meeting came "BlackNet," "Magic Money," and several other "politically motivated" demonstrations. Cypherpunks has _always_ been political! Those who think otherwise are missing the boat. Anyway, here's some of what I wrote to Adam: At 6:50 AM -0700 10/8/98, Adam Back wrote: >This is what I meant by my short rant about coderpunks detracting from >the cypherpunk objective: siphons off 'punks from cypherpunks into a >crypto-politically neutral environment. Then it gets increasingly >more crypto-politically neutral subscribers, and anyone reminding or >commenting that the original aim of the game was to distribute strong >crypto to undermine the state, gets told by the local retro moderators >that political stuff isn't welcome. > >Try reading the cyphernomicon (*), if you haven't. Thanks for the plug. I agree fully with your point about the "crypto-politically neutral" stance many are now taking. I see this at the few CP physical meetings I manage to attend these days. Many of the attendees are just cogs inside companies, and have no idea why they're working on some widget, except that "crypto is cool" and it's "their job." I also am fed up with the "Cypherpunks write code" mantra. Yes, code is very, very important. But _what_ code? And for all of the mantra-chanting, actually very few have ever written any memorable code. We are basically "coasting" on some code (PGP, SSLeay, Mixmaster, a few other pieces) that implement only _two_ of the building blocks: straight encryption and mixes. So where is the _rest_ of the code? "Cypherpunks write code" is a mantra to shut up any discussion of which building blocks are important to write. And yet most of the mantra chanters are actually not writing useful or interesting code, just hacking away in their cubicles.... Sad. --Tim May Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. 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It's faster than ever before and now, as a subscriber, you get 35 FREE new pics every day, plus over 100 more at carefully selected FREE sites we link to. This email is never sent unsolicited. Stuffed is the supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full instructions on unsubscribing are in every issue of Eureka! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- From rwright at adnetsol.com Thu Oct 8 11:16:33 1998 From: rwright at adnetsol.com (Ross Wright) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 02:16:33 +0800 Subject: (Fwd) Request for Assistance Message-ID: <199810081752.KAA07312@cyberpass.net> What the hell is THIS: ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: Gordon Jeff INSP To: "'m1tca00 at frb.gov'" Subject: Request for Assistance Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:42:12 -0400 Hello, The IRS and United States Attorney's office are looking for assistance in a criminal investigation involving threatening messages which were posted to the Cypherpunks mailing list. This e-mail address was noted to be one of those which receives the Cypherpunks list. I would appreciate it if you would contact me to discuss whether you would be willing to assist us in this matter, and what records or information you have relating to the Cypherpunks list. You can contact me at this e-mail address or at (503) 326-2787. Thanks Jeff >From Jeff.Gordon at inspection.irs.gov Thu Oct 8 10:48:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: from primary.frb.gov by bksmp2.FRB.GOV (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA29878; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:48:39 -0400 Received: from new-frbgate.frb.gov (root at new-frbgate.frb.gov [198.35.166.180]) by primary.frb.gov (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA02189 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:48:38 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from Jeff.Gordon at inspection.irs.gov) Received: (from root at localhost) by new-frbgate.frb.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id KAA03072 for m1tca00 at frb.gov; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:44:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tcs-gateway2.treas.gov (tcs-gateway2.treas.gov [204.151.246.2]) by newfed.frb.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA00110 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:42:24 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from Jeff.Gordon at inspection.irs.gov) Received: by tcs-gateway2.treas.gov id KAA00684 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for m1tca00 at frb.gov); Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:42:23 -0400 Received: by tcs-gateway2.treas.gov (Internal Mail Agent-2); Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:42:23 -0400 Received: by tcs-gateway2.treas.gov (Internal Mail Agent-1); Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:42:23 -0400 Message-Id: <9F00F15E736BD11196B700A0C98448FE0A97B6 at WR-SEA-SERVER-2> From: Gordon Jeff INSP To: "'m1tca00 at frb.gov'" Subject: Request for Assistance Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:42:12 -0400 Return-Receipt-To: Gordon Jeff INSP Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain content-length: 548 X-folder: +inbox Thanks Jeff -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- Thanks. View my site from: http://ross.adnetsol.com/links.html Click on "Internet Auctions" From guy at panix.com Thu Oct 8 11:17:29 1998 From: guy at panix.com (Information Security) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 02:17:29 +0800 Subject: Web TV with 128b exported Message-ID: <199810081753.NAA17450@panix7.panix.com> Wherever the 128-bit encryption is located, it is irrelevent: you send someone email, they receive it in clear-text. ---guy From dm0 at avana.net Thu Oct 8 11:19:50 1998 From: dm0 at avana.net (David Miller) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 02:19:50 +0800 Subject: [Fwd: Here come the rafting iguanas]Here come the rafting iguanas Message-ID: <361D269A.3494@avana.net> An embedded message was scrubbed... From: unknown sender Subject: no subject Date: no date Size: 2001 URL: From fisherm at tce.com Thu Oct 8 11:31:25 1998 From: fisherm at tce.com (Fisher Mark) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 02:31:25 +0800 Subject: Vertical vs. Horizontal Crypto (was: RE: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)) Message-ID: <2C396693FBDED111AEF60000F84104A721BFFB@indyexch_fddi.indy.tce.com> > Lucky Green writes: >Cyphpunks believe that more strong crypto is better. And this holds true for vertical as well as horizontal applications. Unlike Mr. Stallman, I think that there is a case where closed-source software is appropriate, and that case is vertical applications. Just as I wouldn't propose that TCE release the source code for our devices (RCA TVs, ProScan VCRs, etc.), as the intellectual return on the release would be low (how many people are going to write low-level software for their own TVs?), I think it is also inappropriate for other vertical-market applications (another example: book library maintenance software). However, some of the bad effects of closed-source crypto can be countered by the use of open crypto protocols, like TLS/SSL, OpenPGP, IPSec, and the like. Although this still won't protect against all attempts at getting around the security of the crypto protocol, at least some crypto protocols are pretty immune to these kinds of attacks -- for example, a PC web browser talking to a set-top box using TLS should only be able to be subverted by the set-top box itself, not by a third party through a hole in the protocol. I'm somewhat surprised that no one has brought this (open crypto protocols) up in the discussion before. (Could it be that I had an original idea? Nah...) ========================================================== Mark Leighton Fisher Thomson Consumer Electronics fisherm at indy.tce.com Indianapolis, IN "Their walls are built of cannon balls, their motto is 'Don't Tread on Me'" From fisherm at tce.com Thu Oct 8 11:38:56 1998 From: fisherm at tce.com (Fisher Mark) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 02:38:56 +0800 Subject: Cyphernomicon Intranet Mirror (was: RE: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)) Message-ID: <2C396693FBDED111AEF60000F84104A721BFFC@indyexch_fddi.indy.tce.com> Adam Back writes: >Try reading the cyphernomicon (*), if you haven't. Which we've mirrored on our Intranet (been meaning to mention this...). It would be terrible if it were to disappear due to linkrot, so we have a local copy. Not accessible to the outside, though... Just another datapoint. ========================================================== Mark Leighton Fisher Thomson Consumer Electronics fisherm at indy.tce.com Indianapolis, IN "Their walls are built of cannon balls, their motto is 'Don't Tread on Me'" From xasper8d at lobo.net Thu Oct 8 12:01:54 1998 From: xasper8d at lobo.net (X) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 03:01:54 +0800 Subject: Request for Assistance In-Reply-To: <9F00F15E736BD11196B700A0C98448FE0A97B6@WR-SEA-SERVER-2> Message-ID: <000201bdf2e7$df6139a0$982580d0@xasper8d> Jeff, Good luck in your pursuit. I think, in the future, you might want to offer us the customary 800 number to call you on to rat on our acquaintances. Two things worry me about your approach: 1) how do you know what emails I get and why in the world do you think it's any of your business? 2) is this suspicion by acquaintance? I'm sure you already know this, but I just recently joined the list so I know nothing about anything threatening on this list. The biggest threat I see is from people publicizing that the government is sniffing out email addresses and categorizing them based on what they _receive._ Dangerous pursuit, dangerous precedent. Watch what side you're on. X (although I have to admit, you have a lot of guts to come in here and ask 'free-thinking individuals" to help you gang up on a guy.) ~> -----Original Message----- ~> From: Gordon Jeff INSP [mailto:Jeff.Gordon at inspection.irs.gov] ~> Sent: Thursday, October 08, 1998 8:42 AM ~> To: 'm1tca00 at frb.gov' ~> Subject: Request for Assistance ~> ~> ~> Hello, ~> ~> The IRS and United States Attorney's office are looking for assistance ~> in a criminal investigation involving threatening messages which were ~> posted to the Cypherpunks mailing list. This e-mail address was noted ~> to be one of those which receives the Cypherpunks list. I would ~> appreciate it if you would contact me to discuss whether you would be ~> willing to assist us in this matter, and what records or information you ~> have relating to the Cypherpunks list. You can contact me at this ~> e-mail address or at (503) 326-2787. ~> ~> Thanks ~> ~> Jeff ~> ~> From mixmaster at remail.obscura.com Thu Oct 8 12:06:53 1998 From: mixmaster at remail.obscura.com (Mixmaster) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 03:06:53 +0800 Subject: Crypto AG Message-ID: >http://caq.com/cryptogate > >Are people familiar with this document? > >Why shouldn't NSA have implanted this kind of back-doors >in various software and operating systems as well? > >It seems to have worked so very well in the past. Keep on writing CypherPunks CryptoCode that's can be gobbled up 4 your M$ softwares.... Da Fedz are more than happy to GAK it up 4 U before thier morning doughnuts...... Nut$crape did it, Apple NeXT, maybe Cisco, more 2 follow.... TeeHee! From petro at playboy.com Thu Oct 8 12:06:55 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 03:06:55 +0800 Subject: [Fwd: [Spooks] British Telecom-Menwith Hill connection] In-Reply-To: <361BB603.6F40C570@brainlink.com> Message-ID: At 1:42 PM -0500 10/7/98, Sunder wrote: > BT were ordered to pay the legal costs caused by their change of >heart. The judge accused them of giving away > confidential commercial information and national secrets. "If I had a >burglar alarm system, I would now think twice about > having it operated by BT", he said. > If I lived in the U.K. (well, truth be told even here in the U.S.) I'd think twice about a criminal "justice" system run by the government. -- "To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather na�ve, and certainly unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust" http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro at playboy.com::petro at bounty.org From petro at playboy.com Thu Oct 8 12:11:14 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 03:11:14 +0800 Subject: Web TV with 128b exported In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981007090445.008903c0@m7.sprynet.com> Message-ID: At 2:39 PM -0500 10/7/98, Steve Bryan wrote: >David Honig wrote: > >>I'd guess that the Export control puppets know that the Web-TV hubs will >>be subpoena-able by the US even in these other "sovereign" nations. >>The WebTV centralized infrastructure makes this easy. > >This announcement seems to be getting a lot of this sort of reaction but I >don't see quite why the news is greeted with such animosity. If a duly >authorized search warrant is required in order to obtain information that >represents a potential world of difference from having unrestricted ability >to monitor all communications. Because there are no (or fewer) *technical* barriers to getting the information, it introduces weakness into the system. -- "To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather na�ve, and certainly unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust" http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro at playboy.com::petro at bounty.org From adam at homeport.org Thu Oct 8 12:19:42 1998 From: adam at homeport.org (Adam Shostack) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 03:19:42 +0800 Subject: Anguilla in the news Message-ID: <19981008144720.A11974@weathership.homeport.org> http://www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/news/national/science/sci-lizard-raft.html Adam -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume From rah at shipwright.com Thu Oct 8 12:28:07 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 03:28:07 +0800 Subject: [Fwd: Here come the rafting iguanas] In-Reply-To: <361D269A.3494@avana.net> Message-ID: At 4:51 PM -0400 on 10/8/98, David Miller wrote: > Could the term "green iguanas" be symbolic of US currency? Naw... But I hereby nominate the green iguana to be the official mascot of the cypherpunk crypto-refugee community on Anguilla. I can see it on the "alternative" FC99 shirt now. A bunch of iguanas, (at least one in black BDUs :-)), on a raft of (tamper resistant) cryptoaccellerator and DES-cracker parts, styrofoam, and Stronghold and Red Hat boxes, all with a silhouette of Anguilla looming in the background. Maybe with Jerry Gumbs standing on the beach holding a "God Save the Queen" sign? But wait, there's more. How about the Anguillan flag, with *iguanas* replacing the dolphins... Can you tell the equinox is over? Cheers, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Oct 8 12:29:19 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 03:29:19 +0800 Subject: [Fwd: Here come the rafting iguanas] (fwd) Message-ID: <199810081910.OAA19559@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:30:10 -0400 > From: Robert Hettinga > Subject: Re: [Fwd: Here come the rafting iguanas] > At 4:51 PM -0400 on 10/8/98, David Miller wrote: > > > Could the term "green iguanas" be symbolic of US currency? > > Naw... But I hereby nominate the green iguana to be the official mascot of > the cypherpunk crypto-refugee community on Anguilla. I'll see if the Austin Cypherpunks want to start holding our meetings at the Green Iquana Grill out on Lake Travis... ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From petro at playboy.com Thu Oct 8 12:49:20 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 03:49:20 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810080259.VAA15812@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: At 9:59 PM -0500 10/7/98, Jim Choate wrote: >Forwarded message: > >> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 21:52:17 -0400 (EDT) >> From: Ryan Anderson >> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) > >> > The Mafia. The handful of world-class coke dealers. Your local church. >> >> Umm... both of those are around because the governemtn made the cost of >> delivering both alcohol and drugs prohibitively high, > >That's inaccurate. The Mafia pre-dated the US by several hundred years if So what? There was probably a government wherever the started, and they probably started out providing services that their local government prohibited. >not more (depends on how one wants to choose the bloodline). Most >definitely they predated the bans on alcohol. > >As to the coke market, In S. America it has been around for quite a while as >well. The chemical has been used medicinaly for hundreds of years until just >recently. Which says nothing about whether it was/is a government sponsored/ protected monopoly. -- "To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather na�ve, and certainly unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust" http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro at playboy.com::petro at bounty.org From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Oct 8 13:04:42 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 04:04:42 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <199810081944.OAA19796@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:15:12 -0500 > From: Petro > Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) > >> Umm... both of those are around because the governemtn made the cost of > >> delivering both alcohol and drugs prohibitively high, > > > >That's inaccurate. The Mafia pre-dated the US by several hundred years if > > So what? There was probably a government wherever the started, and > they probably started out providing services that their local government > prohibited. This begs the question, even when presented with evidence that supports such assertions you dismiss it out of hand. No point in even responding to your posts on this topic any further. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody at replay.com Thu Oct 8 13:05:31 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 04:05:31 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199810081921.VAA06626@replay.com> HOW MUCH CODE DID 'CYPHERPUNK' TIM MAY EVER WRITE? From petro at playboy.com Thu Oct 8 13:07:20 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 04:07:20 +0800 Subject: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 6:19 PM -0500 10/6/98, William H. Geiger III wrote: >>At 2:35 PM -0500 10/6/98, Steve Mynott wrote: >>>any true cypherpunk must be a libertarian.. >> Libertarians are just cowardly anarchists, they lack the courage of >>their convictions to take the last step and eliminate government >>altogether. >Libertarians are well aware of the need for government, they are also Libertarians are afraid of getting rid of their saftey nets. >aware of the dangers to personal freedom that governments represent. The >goal of the Libertarians is to provide a system that minimizes government >and maximizes personal freedom. In the US this system takes the form of a The creation of government is incompatible with concept of freedom, it is like a doctor saying that he/she will introduce "a little cancer" to help cure you of something. Like radiation or chemotherapy it works for a short time, but causes the very problems it set out to solve in the long run. As our current state would show, freedoms are not always lost in one big election, nor in one gigantic battle, but like a mountain is reduced to a plain, one drop of water, one soft gust of wind at a time. >Constitutionally limited government (ie: the US Constitution interpreted >as a limiting document not an enabling one). What prevents it from changing contexts? Nothing. The current constitution was voided by the Civil War/War of Northern Aggression, and we haven't had a government that was willing to restrict it's activities to its prescribed borders since then (if we even did before then, I seem to remember A. Jackson explicitly ignoring a supreme court ruling that lead to thousands of deaths). Your system depends on strong minded, enlightened people willing to work together and not look to someone else to solve their problems. With those kind of people any system will work, and so would anarchy. Without those kind of people, no system will work for long (especially without degenerating into a tyranny of some kind). >Anarchism does not work. It is a pipe dream much like Communism that only >leads to Totalitarianism. It works every day anywhere anyone has the capability to make a choice, and does so without consulting their local branch of the Mob. -- "To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather na�ve, and certainly unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust" http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro at playboy.com::petro at bounty.org From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Oct 8 13:10:04 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 04:10:04 +0800 Subject: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd) Message-ID: <199810081951.OAA20049@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:35:41 -0500 > From: Petro > Subject: Re: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd) > >aware of the dangers to personal freedom that governments represent. The > >goal of the Libertarians is to provide a system that minimizes government > >and maximizes personal freedom. In the US this system takes the form of a > > The creation of government is incompatible with concept of freedom, Then freedom is incompatible with human psychology. People are social animals and will build social institutions (ie government), it's in their genes. > it is like a doctor saying that he/she will introduce "a little cancer" to > help cure you of something. The point is to create a market with 'fair competition', something that won't occur naturaly because of a variety of reasons. If you'd like to see some of them then refer to: Inidividualism and Economic Order FA Hayek ISBN 0-226-32093-6 Individualism: true and false, Section 7 (pp. 45 in my copy) ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody at replay.com Thu Oct 8 13:11:43 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 04:11:43 +0800 Subject: Request for Assistance Message-ID: <199810081936.VAA07537@replay.com> You mean to tell me that the GOV is actually going to try to make a case against someone on *this* mailing list for sending threatening mail? Gimme a break! Have you actually perused any archives of this list? If you did, and filtered out any of the crypto/privacy-relevant posts, you'd be hard pressed to find *anything* that you could take seriously at all, let alone construe to be threatening. Unless of course you take space aliens hiding your drugs to be threatening. And what, you're from the IRS? What, was the IRS threatened? And this would surprise you how? Did they threaten to hide the IRS' drugs? Were they posing as space aliens? And how come you didn't contact me? Does that mean that I'm under investigation? Or do you just not like me? Or were you not sniffing my network connection at the time to make your illegal determination that I'm on the Cypherpunks mailing list? I'd have to agree with Mr. 'X' that you guys have a lot of nerve coming to this list and asking for assistance in what's probably an illegal and illegitimate investigation in the first place, looking to claim another victim in the seemingly never-ending destruction of the rights of the common man by the faceless fascist government regime. Or, to sum up, piss off. At 12:17 PM 10/8/98 -0600, X wrote: >Jeff, > >Good luck in your pursuit. I think, in the future, you might want to offer >us the customary 800 number to call you on to rat on our acquaintances. > >Two things worry me about your approach: > >1) how do you know what emails I get and why in the world do you think it's >any of your business? > >2) is this suspicion by acquaintance? > >I'm sure you already know this, but I just recently joined the list so I >know nothing about anything threatening on this list. The biggest threat I >see is from people publicizing that the government is sniffing out email >addresses and categorizing them based on what they _receive._ > >Dangerous pursuit, dangerous precedent. > >Watch what side you're on. > >X > >(although I have to admit, you have a lot of guts to come in here and ask >'free-thinking individuals" to help you gang up on a guy.) > >~> -----Original Message----- >~> From: Gordon Jeff INSP [mailto:Jeff.Gordon at inspection.irs.gov] >~> Sent: Thursday, October 08, 1998 8:42 AM >~> To: 'm1tca00 at frb.gov' >~> Subject: Request for Assistance >~> >~> >~> Hello, >~> >~> The IRS and United States Attorney's office are looking for assistance >~> in a criminal investigation involving threatening messages which were >~> posted to the Cypherpunks mailing list. This e-mail address was noted >~> to be one of those which receives the Cypherpunks list. I would >~> appreciate it if you would contact me to discuss whether you would be >~> willing to assist us in this matter, and what records or information you >~> have relating to the Cypherpunks list. You can contact me at this >~> e-mail address or at (503) 326-2787. >~> >~> Thanks >~> >~> Jeff >~> >~> From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Oct 8 13:12:20 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 04:12:20 +0800 Subject: Forwarded mail... Message-ID: <199810081945.OAA19853@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 21:21:32 +0200 > From: Anonymous > > HOW MUCH CODE DID 'CYPHERPUNK' TIM MAY EVER WRITE? > How much have YOU written (as if anyone really cares)? ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From mah248 at is9.nyu.edu Thu Oct 8 13:15:36 1998 From: mah248 at is9.nyu.edu (Michael Hohensee) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 04:15:36 +0800 Subject: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810081602.LAA17602@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <361D1967.87B558B0@is9.nyu.edu> Jim Choate wrote: > > > > > Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 14:47:34 +0000 > > From: Michael Hohensee > > Subject: Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd) > > > The latter does not necessarily follow from the former. Consider the > > example of natural gas and gasoline. You don't get to conclude your > > argument that easily! :) > > And you don't get to try such short ones either.... > > What specificaly is there about the relationship between natural gas and > gasoline that leads you to believe that the comparison of lethality between > the waste products of a coal plant vurses a nuclear plant is such that the > waste of a nuclear plant is more lethal because there is more toxic > byproduct and it is in higher concentrations? Absolutely nothing. That's my point, not yours --or at least not the point you made in your previous post. I had assumed that the flaw in your previous statement was so obvious that my fairly simple example would make it crystal clear to you, but it appears that I was incorrect. Let me try again. You said: > A 1000MW coal plant produces approx 300,000 tons of waste product per year. > A nuclear plan produces .5. This means the concentration of the chemicals in > the coal plant are much lower by many orders of magnitude than the nuclear, > hence making the nuclear waste more toxic by a great deal. And I say: This is not a valid argument. You are saying that since the volume of nuclear waste is so much less than the volume of the waste produced by a coal plant, "the concentration of the chemicals in the coal plant [is] much lower by many orders of magnitude than [that of] the nuclear [plant]." For one thing, this comparision is entirely meaningless, since the waste from coal and nuclear plants is entirely different, comparing their "concentrations" is impossible. Of course, what you really meant to refer to was the concentration of toxic chemicals in the aforementioned waste products. Yet even your implied argument is flawed. You are assuming that there is a constant unit amount of toxins produced per unit of power generated. This is an entirely baseless claim, and is easily refuted. For example, take the case of natural gas and gasoline. Burning gasoline yields carbon dioxide, water, and various pollutants. When you burn natural gas, on the other hand, you get carbon dioxide and water. Clearly, there is no power:toxicity ratio at work here. Take it further. Burn hydrogen. You get water. Hydrogen produces much more energy per unit mass burned than gasoline, yet produces no toxins. Now, is it clear why the statement you made above is nonsensical? Michael Hohensee From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Oct 8 13:22:19 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 04:22:19 +0800 Subject: Something else about 'freedom'... Message-ID: <199810081956.OAA20142@einstein.ssz.com> It doesn't mean the creation of a social or economic state (or lack of one) that promotes the abuse or belittlement of others 'freedoms'. I'd still like to see an explanation of how anarcho-capitalist or free-market promoters expect this to be resolved. My suspicion is that this sort of opportunity is *exactly* what they want. Then *they* get to be the ones using force for coercive ends. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Thu Oct 8 13:36:37 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 04:36:37 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) In-Reply-To: <361CE49F.C858A2CE@brd.ie> Message-ID: <199810081945.UAA14149@server.eternity.org> Frank O'Dwyer writes: > I'm familiar with C2Net. If Stronghold is any good, that is because > C2net and/or the Apache team know what they are doing, not just because > they picked up a free SSL library on the net. It's easy to build > insecure products on good crypto, and many other companies are busy > doing just that. Perry recently posted a summary of his views on the appropriateness of GPL vs BSD vs other licenses for achieving various aims, "free software" under the GNU meaning, vs crypto software deployment. I found Perrys summary to be the clearest on the topic so far. You appear to be arguing with another aim in mind. You seem to be arguing that the primary goal should be to have best security, from the outset. ie one gets the impression from reading your previous two posts that you consider ultimate security more important than deployment. If this is what you are saying, I disagree. As I argued further down, I think cypherpunk type goals are better met my getting people to deploy first, then if they bodge it to encourage them to fix it, and I gave the example of the Netscape RNG weakness which was very quicly fixed once it was found: > > Cypherpunks also get involved in breaking crypto, and this is usually > > enough to get massively commercially deployed strong crypto with > > unintentional flaws converted quickly into massively deployed crypto > > without the flaws. eg. Netscape's random number generator weakness, > > which netscape fixed immediately. > > That's condescending and irrelevant. Did anyone ever fix web spoofing? Which is not in the least condescending or irrelevant as it gives an example showing that having what turns out to be less than perfect security can be fairly quickly remedied. And security is hard, even competent people make mistakes. The important thing is to admit and quickly fix such mistakes. I've taken your comments on web spoofing to another post. > Then I guess you agree that closed-source deployment is neither > necessary nor sufficient to achieve "strong crypto". Not really sure why > you're arguing in that case. I don't think anyone suggesed that closed source deployment was in anyway better than open source, and obviously open source is better for verifying the quality of crypto software. However, as was previously suggested, if deployment is the goal, and if one uses for example a GNU license it tends to discourage commercial (typically closed source) deployers, and as Lucky said: : Many companies will not be able to source contaminated by GNU-style : licensing restrictions. Consequently, alternatives would be : found. Some of those alternatives, include using no crypto at all or : using crypto written by somebody that does not understand : crytography. Hardly the outcome a Cypherpunk would desire. And I think at this stage something is vastly better than nothing. > > You don't get it, but then have you ever written any crypto code with > > the objective of undermining the power of the state? Is this your aim > > in writing your open source application code that you name dropped? > > Yes, and yes. Cool, what application area are these in? Got a URL? > (I don't think you understand the term "name dropped" btw. Just a comment on the Rick Smith (of Secure Computing) syndrome (read crytopgraphy list you'll know about the book he wrote, because every other post he makes involves it). Perhaps not appropriate in your case, but if people mention software, it is nice to know some details: why should we be interested in your software etc. > But given the name-dropping and appeal-to-authority tone of your > whole post, I wonder if you understand the term "irony"). Irony? Your post was intended to be ironic? What is ironic about arguing that first cut security is more important than deployment? This is cypherpunks, people tend to speak their mind, and usually aren't too delicate about it -- welcome to the cypherpunks list. Adam -- print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Message-ID: <199810081956.UAA14156@server.eternity.org> Frank O'Dwyer writes: > In fact, it's funny that you tout a "secure web server" as "strong > crypto" since in that context SSL is usually vulnerable to being > end-run by web spoofing. Oops. Oh well, it uses strong crypto, so it > must be good. As to your web spoofing comments, (which I just read, see: http://www.brd.ie/papers/sslpaper/sslpaper.html ) this is a specific instance of the mapping problem, ie. how do you know that the web page you ended up at belongs to the company you heard about, or found by a web search or hypertext link on someones page. The hierarchical CA model says that you believe it is so because the CA tells you it is so. (Franks comment on the (in)security of following an unsecured hypertext link was that the unsecured hypertext reference could be modified in an active attack to point to their own (secured) page, and then accept your payment instead of the company you intended to buy from). Netscape 4 behaves in the following way, depending on the situation. 1) the site is using a cert signed by a CA the browser does not recognise In this case it shows you through a nice series of dialog box (in microsofts wizard style), which is quite useful in explaining the issues. 2) the site is using a cert signed by a CA the browser does recognise In this case the browser does one of two things depending on whether you are currently viewing a secure page, or not: a) from insecure page shows dialog box telling you you are visiting a secured page, and to click security for more info (clicking security will show you the cert content, company name, CA details). b) from secure page shows _nothing_, just goes right into the page without further comment! (default setup, freshly installed netscape 4.04 / linux). (I tried this going from c2net, then typing in cypherpunks.to (Lucky's site)), if you do click on security button you then get the cert info again. www.cypherpunks.to Cypherpunks Jihad Cypherpunks Tonga Cyberspace, none, TO Part b) I view as a problem because it doesn't even by default show you anything. They could at least present the click through. They seem to be treating the secure / insecure as a binary state. Could someone verify this in later revisions of netscape? The basic problem though is that even if you do the `nagging dialog box' click throughs with option to disable, chances are most people will disable them, because they will get annoyed. The simplest way to reduce this risk would be for a company to secure all of it's web pages. But this isn't going to do that much, because people often don't know the web page URL. (Frank notes all this). Also spoofed company names which look similar to companies in real life also are possible, for example there was a case of a BT Telekom or something trying to spoof customers into parting with their money. This is a problem with gullible consumers. But if people started from print media advertisement, and typed in the URL and the URL was signed by a CA then they are at least as secure as the non-net situation. In general though, I think there is a solution to this problem: encrypt all the pages. The other hard problem is now that you know you are visiting the web page of FooBar Inc, as attested by Thawte (or whoever), how do you know that FooBar won't take your money and run. This is a general reputation question, with the normal solutions. If it's an expensive item, you perhaps check them out, ask around for others experiences, check with any reputation ratings services (trade groups, etc). Adam -- print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Message-ID: One is reminded of a quote (I'm still looking for the exact version) by Washington Roebling, the chief engineer of the Brooklyn Bridge, when, invalid from decompression sickness, his management of the works from his bedroom window was called into question. Something about how a single man, in a single afternoon, could plan a year's work for thousands. ;-). The cost of anything is the foregone alternative; if we lived here, we'd be home now; et cetera. Cypherpunks sit in their barcoloungers (or cubicles) and mosh. :-). Cheers, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From nobody at replay.com Thu Oct 8 14:03:41 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 05:03:41 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199810082030.WAA12450@replay.com> Is there an offhand reference to ECHELON in the second paragraph? National Counterintelligence Center Counterintelligence News and Developments Volume 3 September 1998 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.nacic.gov/cind/SEPT98.htm More on French Spying The French magazine Le Point reported in mid-June that France systematically listens in on the telephone conversations and cable traffic of many businesses based in the United States and other nations. The article also reports the French Government uses a network of listening stations to eavesdrop and pass on commercial secrets to French businesses competing in the global economy. The article goes on to state that the French secret service, DGSE, has established listening posts in the Dordogne (Southern France) and also in its overseas territories, including French Guiana and New Caledonia. The article attributes to an unnamed "senior official within this branch of the French secret service" the claim, "This is the game of the secret war," adding that U.S. listening posts do the same. The magazine report says Germans who bought into the French Helios 1A spy satellite system are being given access to political and economic secrets as part of a Franco-German agreement to compete with a commercial information agreement between the United States and Britain. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mexican Hackers Mount Attack According to an August 1998 Reuters report, a small group of computer hackers have declared electronic war on the Mexican state. They have plastered the face of revolutionary hero Emiliano Zapata on the Finance Ministry's Web site and claim to have monitored visits by Mexican Senators to X-rated Internet sites. They also have vowed to attack official databases for incriminating numbers and publicize government bank accounts, cellular phone conversations, and e-mail addresses. So far the cyber pirates, who say they are a trio of Mexicans, appear to be more a nuisance than a serious threat, but they are serving as a wake-up call for computer security in Mexico, experts said. One of the hackers stated during an online interview with Reuters that "We protest with the weapons we have and those weapons are computers." The hackers surfaced in February when visitors to the Finance Ministry's official Web site were surprised to find Zapata staring back at them. From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Thu Oct 8 14:11:40 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 05:11:40 +0800 Subject: does Web TV use forward secret cipher-suites? (Re: Web TV with 128b exported) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199810082026.VAA14458@server.eternity.org> Petro writes: > At 2:39 PM -0500 10/7/98, Steve Bryan wrote: > >David Honig wrote: > > > >>I'd guess that the Export control puppets know that the Web-TV hubs will > >>be subpoena-able by the US even in these other "sovereign" nations. > >>The WebTV centralized infrastructure makes this easy. This is as others have noted cisco's doorbelling approach to GAK -- having routers and automated systems doing decryption, and allowing LEA either direct access (possibly in this case), or access via complicit operators. One question which might help determins just how bad this Web TV thing is, is does it use the forward secret ciphersuites. If it did use FS ciphersuites, if the LEA starts reading traffic after some point (by asking the WebTV operators to do so, or by using a special LEA operator mode), he can't get all old traffic. The EDH (ephemeral DH) modes are forward secret because a new DH key is generated for each session. Some of the RSA modes are forward secret, but only on export grade RSA key sizes (512 bit). As it got export permission, I fear the worst. Perhaps even special LEA operator access. Adam From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Oct 8 14:26:47 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 05:26:47 +0800 Subject: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd) Message-ID: <199810082107.QAA20666@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 19:58:31 +0000 > From: Michael Hohensee > Subject: Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd) > > What specificaly is there about the relationship between natural gas and > > gasoline that leads you to believe that the comparison of lethality between > > the waste products of a coal plant vurses a nuclear plant is such that the > > waste of a nuclear plant is more lethal because there is more toxic > > byproduct and it is in higher concentrations? > > Absolutely nothing. That's my point, not yours --or at least not the > point you made in your previous post. It is *exactly* the point I have made from day 1. If you believe otherwise the mistake is yours. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From davidwatts_98 at yahoo.com Thu Oct 8 14:45:17 1998 From: davidwatts_98 at yahoo.com (David Watts) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 05:45:17 +0800 Subject: WSJ on NYC Smart Card Pilot Message-ID: <19981008211928.17064.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com> Technological Glitches Trip Up New York Debut of Plastic Cash By PAUL BECKETT Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL Smart cards invaded New York last year, when four of consumer banking's most sophisticated players began one of the biggest real-world trials of plastic cash. But right from the start, the closely watched effort slipped on an unforeseen banana peel: technology. In a test with far-reaching implications, Chase Manhattan Corp., Citicorp --now part of Citigroup Inc. -- MasterCard International and Visa USA co-sponsored the pilot program, which began last October. They distributed about 96,000 smart cards embedded with computer chips to residents of Manhattan's Upper West Side. Then they watched to see how willing people were to use the cards instead of cash. The answer is, not very, according to merchants and consumers. A big reason was the support network of hardware was so riddled with technical and logistical headaches that it often made using the smart cards a hassle instead of a breeze. Usage has dwindled to a trickle. More than a third of the 600 merchants who signed up for the pilot either have quit or were eliminated from the test by the sponsors. Many of the ones who remain are fed up. Smart cards figure in an antitrust lawsuit the Justice Department filed against Visa and MasterCard Wednesday. The regulators accuse the bank-controlled credit-card networks of holding back on efforts to develop new products, including smart cards. Visa and MasterCard denied the charges and vowed to defend themselves. The smart cards in the Manhattan test work like the long-distance phone cards that vending machines in supermarkets sell. The cards -- either a Visa Cash card issued by Citigroup's Citibank unit, or a MasterCard Mondex card issued by Chase -- are filled with cash from a person's bank account. Users draw on the card's stored cash as they pay for merchandise; store clerks swipe it through a special terminal at the point of purchase. Users can refill the card with cash at a bank or automated teller machine. For the test, there are no annual or transaction fees for customers or merchants. Tough Customers The sponsors chose as their guinea pigs the Manhattanites who live in the swath of real estate between Central Park and the Hudson River, an eclectic stew of millionaires, welfare families, and everyone in between. Many of these tough customers quickly found smart cards were actually pretty dumb. For a start, they weren't accepted in taxis, buses, and subways. There also is a harder-to-explain psychological resistance to the smart cards. "It seems rather un-American to me," says Greg Knight, who lives on the Upper West Side and works at NYCD Compact Disks. The store participates in the smart-card program but doesn't record many transactions. Mr. Knight says he has a smart card but doesn't use it. A busy Duane Reade drugstore on Amsterdam Avenue should have been a good testing ground, because most of what it sells is low-priced. But the smart-card scanners installed at the checkout break down two or three times a month, says store manager Sammy Austin. After calling the program's "help desk," Mr. Austin says, he has waited as long as six days for a repairman, plus two more days for replacement machines. "If they could improve the system, I think plenty of customers would use it," Mr. Austin says. "But in a city like New York, where it's hustle and bustle, everybody wants to be treated one-two-three, and if you can't accommodate your customers, they're just going to forget about it. It turns you off." Sponsors say one reason for the high drop-off rate among merchants is that there was never any screening: The program was open to any merchant who wanted to join. The sponsors themselves later culled out merchants who were recording few smart-card transactions. Few Purchases Zabar's, an always-crowded gourmet food store on Broadway, had its share of technological problems early in the program. When calling the help desk didn't help, the store bowed out of the experiment for several weeks, says Zabar's manager David Tait. The store has since returned, and things have gone more smoothly. Still, it rings up only 25 smart-card purchases a day, Mr. Tait says. Many of the payment terminals that malfunctioned were made by Hewlett-Packard Co.'s VeriFone unit, the biggest of the pilot program's three hardware suppliers. Machines made by the other two -- Hypercom Corp., of Phoenix, and IVI Ingenico Inc., a Canadian-French joint venture -- had early technical problems, too, the sponsors say, but on a smaller scale. VeriFone spokesman Dan Toporek acknowledges the glitches. "There were instances where the machines weren't installed or configured properly," he says. Still, he says Verifone regards the terminals as a success. Nick Massimiano, vice president at Chase Manhattan, says the sponsors moved fast to address the delays in service. A software adjustment fixed many of the problems with the Verifone terminals, he says. Foot patrols of repair technicians check in with merchants to help trouble-shoot. Fairway, a bustling supermarket on Broadway, stopped taking smart cards after just a few weeks. Employees there said it was a hassle to process transactions on the smart-card terminal, which is separate from both the cash register and the credit-card machine. Other merchants complain about having to reconcile their terminals with the smart cards' central computer at the end of the day, so the smart-card purchases will land in their bank accounts. For this task, the sponsors had presented retailers with various options, but some employees never got the hang of the task. So at many of the stores, it became a bothersome after-hours chore for the boss. Mr. Massimiano says adjustments in the modem timing of the terminals has made it easier for stores to settle accounts at the end of the day. But the real issue here is training, not technology, he says. The sponsors issued desktop guides for making the fund transfers. The roaming foot patrols also provide training assistance, he says. 'A Less Positive Experience' "Lots of little things, when you add them up, can create a less than a positive experience," concedes Ron Braco, senior vice president and director of electronic commerce for Chase Manhattan's consumer-banking division. Still, the program has yielded some victories, he says. For the first time in any test program, the Visa and MasterCard smart cards were accepted on the same terminals. Lessons learned suggest the four partners will shy away from broad efforts to blanket an entire neighborhood, focusing instead on specific retail niches in which smart cards are especially useful. "I would say the time for experimentation is probably passed now," says Richard Phillimore, senior vice president of MasterCard's chip-business group. "This really points the direction toward rolling out not necessarily by geography but by merchant sector." One such sector is small-ticket purchases -- launderettes and newsstands, for example. In the latest chapter of the Upper West Side test, smart cards have been introduced in basement laundry rooms in a few of the neighborhood's apartment buildings. So far, the backers say, they have been a roaring success: Smart card users don't need piles of quarters any more. Chase says on average 25% of the laundry revenue at the participating buildings comes from smart cards, and in some locations approaches 40%. "Once the card generates some excitement, people won't care that Duane Reade had a problem at some point in time," says Chase spokesman Kenneth Herz. Adds Judy Darr, director of the smart card program at Citibank, "Our commitment to smart cards remains strong." _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From vznuri at netcom.com Thu Oct 8 14:47:31 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 05:47:31 +0800 Subject: IP: Borderless World Talks, E-commerce Message-ID: <199810082123.OAA29230@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Borderless World Talks, E-commerce Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 09:19:12 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com -------------------- NOTE: You will have to go to the website referenced below to read this article. Half of the page is the article in English, the other half in French. -------------------- BORDERLESS WORLD TALKS The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development is holding a Borderless World ministerial conference in Ottawa this week, in which reps of the 29 member countries discuss various Internet and e-commerce issues, especially regulation, taxation and privacy. See http://www.oecd.org/dsti/sti/it/ec/news/ottawa.htm ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Thu Oct 8 14:47:44 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 05:47:44 +0800 Subject: IP: Neural Computer to Rival Brain??? Message-ID: <199810082123.OAA29218@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Neural Computer to Rival Brain??? Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 09:15:57 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com Source: The Economist http://www.economist.com/editorial/freeforall/current/index_st4636.html SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY Semiconductors - Silicon smarts BRAINS and computers are very different things. Brains consist of a trillion or so tiny elements, called neurons, which are individually dumb but collectively, thanks to the thousand trillion connections between them, very powerful. Most computers, on the other hand, depend on a single, complex component-a microprocessor-to get things done. Even the most advanced supercomputers, with hundreds or even thousands of connected microprocessors, cannot match the compactness or connection density of the human brain. Two new chip-making techniques being developed at Irvine Sensors Corporation (ISC) in Costa Mesa, California, could be significant steps in the long-running effort to make more brain-like computers. Researchers at ISC have found a way to pack silicon chips extremely tightly together and, better still, to make large numbers of connections between them. Their technique layers silicon chips on top of each other, cramming 50 chips into the space normally occupied by just one. This is done by grinding away the underside of the silicon wafer on which the chip circuitry is built-a thick, non-functional platform that can be removed without affecting the chip's operation. The result is a paper-thin but fully functional chip, which can be stacked and bonded with other chips to form a single unit. The chips are wired together via connectors along their edges, and the whole sandwich is embedded in epoxy resin. This space-saving technique is already being used commercially in a four-layer memory chip that packs 128 megabits of data into an amazingly small one-centimetre-square package. Earlier this year, ISC won a $1.3m military contract from Boeing to build a wearable, voice-activated computer the size of a pack of cards. But while such stacking wizardry means computers can be smaller, it does not make them more brain-like. At present, the nearest approximation to a silicon brain involves making electronic circuits that behave like neurons, and connecting them up in small networks. Such "artificial neural networks" can be used for everything from image recognition to credit scoring, but their size and complexity-and so their deductive power-is limited. This is because it is only possible to fit a certain number of silicon neurons on to a single chip; and there is a limit to the number of connections that can be made between adjacent neural chips. Researchers would like to be able to build networks that are larger and more densely connected-in short, more brain-like. ISC's second technology should let them do this, by allowing direct vertical connections to be made anywhere on the adjoining surfaces of adjacent chips in a stack. To achieve this, half of a special component called a three-dimensional field-effect transistor, or 3DFET, is constructed at the site of each connection, as part of the usual chip-making process. When the chips are stacked, the two halves of each 3DFET fit together, allowing signals to pass up and down from one chip to the other. A prototype 3DFET, developed with financing from the US army's ballistic missile defence organisation, has already been made and tested. With new funding, ISC hopes to make a chip-stack connected using 3DFETs within 18 months. After that, says ISC's chief technical officer, John Carson, the long-term goal is to stack 1,000 neural chips in a single cube. This would involve thinning each chip down to less than the thickness of a human hair. Already, ISC has produced a prototype that is almost this thin. If ISC can squeeze a million silicon neurons on to each chip, and pack a thousand chips into a one-inch neural cube, the arithmetic starts to get interesting. A thousand such cubes, which could fit in a shoebox, would contain a trillion neurons, and a hundred trillion connections. That would still not match the connectivity of human grey matter. But it would be the most brain-like computer ever made. ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Thu Oct 8 14:47:59 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 05:47:59 +0800 Subject: IP: House Passes Roving Wiretaps, Expanding Federal Surveillance Powers Message-ID: <199810082123.OAA29190@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: House Passes Roving Wiretaps, Expanding Federal Surveillance Powers Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 09:06:44 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com Source: Center for Democracy and Technology http://www.cdt.org/legislation/calea/roving.html House Passes Roving Wiretaps, Expanding Federal Surveillance Powers October 7, 1998 In a closed-door manuever, controversial "roving wiretap" provisions have been added to a major Intelligence authorization bill and passed by the House. Current wiretapping law allows tapping of a particular person's phones. The new provisions would dramatically expand current authority by allowing taps on any phone used by, or "proximate" to, the person being tapped +IBQ- no matter whose phone it is. Such a broad law invites abuse. In the last Congress, the full House of Representatives rejected these provisions after an open and vigorous debate. This week, behind closed doors, a conference committee added the provisions to the important Intelligence Authorization Conference Report, almost certain to pass the Congress. The provisions were not in either the original House or Senate versions of the bill. CDT is particularly concerned that such an expansion of federal authority should take place without a public debate. "Roving Wiretaps" Language added to H.R. 3694, the Intelligence Authorization Conference Report. SEC. 604. WIRE AND ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATIONS INTERCEPTION REQUIREMENTS. (a) In General. Section 2518(11)(b) of title 18, United States Code, is amended - (1) in clause (ii), by striking ``of a purpose'' and all that follows through the end of such clause and inserting ``that there is probable cause to believe that the person's actions could have the effect of thwarting interception from a specified facility;''; (2) in clause (iii), by striking ``such purpose'' and all that follows through the end of such clause and inserting ``such showing has been adequately made; and''; and (3) by adding at the end the following clause: ``(iv) the order authorizing or approving the interception is limited to interception only for such time as it is reasonable to presume that the person identified in the application is or was reasonably proximate to the instrument through which such communication will be or was transmitted.''. (b) Conforming Amendments.Section 2518(12) of title 18, United States Code, is amended - (1) by inserting ``(a)'' after ``by reason of subsection (11)''; (2) by striking ``the facilities from which, or''; and (3) by striking the comma following ``where''. Other CALEA Issues The Center For Democracy And Technology 1634 Eye Street NW, Suite 1100 Washington, DC 20006 (v) .202.637.9800 (f) .202.637.0968 info at cdt.org ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Thu Oct 8 14:49:31 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 05:49:31 +0800 Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.25: TRUSTe Brings Privacy Home Message-ID: <199810082123.OAA29167@netcom13.netcom.com> From: "ama-gi ISPI" Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.25: TRUSTe Brings Privacy Home Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 00:30:34 -0700 To: ISPI Clips 5.25: TRUSTe Brings Privacy Home News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) Thursday October 8, 1998 ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This From: WIRED News, October 7, 1998 http://www.wired.com TRUSTe Brings Privacy Home http://www.wired.com/news/news/business/story/15462.html by James Glave, james at wired.com 9:05 a.m. 7.Oct.98.PDT The major Web indexing firms have banded together with Web privacy group TRUSTe [ http://www.truste.org/ ] to launch a national advertising campaign aimed at educating consumers about online privacy issues. The campaign, known as Privacy Partnership, will rely on donated banner ads, distributed across the Net. Microsoft, for example, said it will donate 20 million banner impressions, or individual viewings, on its MSN.com service. Microsoft (MSFT) described Privacy Partnership as a "grassroots campaign," but there is nothing small-time about the lineup of Web content and indexing firms involved. Besides Redmond, AOL (AOL), Excite (XCIT), Infoseek (SEEK), Lycos (LCOS), Netscape (NSCP), Snap, and Yahoo (YHOO) are all on board. Lycos is the parent company of Wired Digital, owner of Wired News. The Internet advertisements, explaining the importance of protecting personal data online, will run between 12 and 31 October. All told, the companies will contribute more than 150 million online advertising impressions, worth more than US$3 million, in the form of banners and messages on their Web sites. The campaign is expected to reach about 90 percent of all Internet users in the United States. "Microsoft's commitment to online privacy is related to our ongoing vision of empowering the individual to do more through the PC," said Bob Herbold, Microsoft executive vice president and CEO, in a statement. The publicity push is designed to bring the Internet privacy debate home to middle America. The program will bring consumers into a conversation that has so far been a terse exchange between the Internet industry, which wants to regulate itself, and government, which is threatening to pass consumer-protection laws. "We want to be the first people to ask, 'Why doesn't government work with business and work with consumers?'" said a source with TRUSTe. The Federal Trade Commission has cracked down on the Internet industry for what it claims is a failure to respect personal information relative to consumers. In August, the commission punished GeoCities for allowing personal customer information to fall into untrustworthy hands. The FTC has given the industry until the end of this year to prove that it's serious about protecting consumer privacy. If that doesn't happen, it will recommend congress pass laws to do it for them. A recent survey [ http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/15428.html ] found that more than 40 countries have enacted, or plan to enact, consumer data-protection laws. TRUSTe is leading the charge to stop the United States from doing the same thing. The nonprofit industry group runs a program that awards a TRUSTe seal to Web sites that respect and preserve individual privacy. "The average citizen... [has] no idea they can't participate in self regulation," said the TRUSTe source. "If we don't do these things, then government will fail and self-regulation will fail. "In the privacy arena, what is really critical is that this is all moving really fast. The industry is collecting data faster than anyone can stop them. We want the government to put in the principles so that privacy doesn't become for the information age what the environment was to the industrial age." One Web-privacy advocate agreed, but said that a consumer-education campaign is a distraction that allows the big Internet companies to shirk their responsibilities. "Focusing on 'consumer education' is an attempt to shift responsibility back on the victim, which makes little sense when those people have so little technical and legal power to protect their own interests," said Jason Catlett, president of JunkBusters. "Detroit tried the same PR trick in the '60s, because telling people that they should drive more carefully was cheaper than being required to engineer safer cars and to take responsibility for the numbers of people that were getting killed," Catlett said. "How many more horror stories must we read before consumers will get more than 'You should have chosen better companies' for an answer?" Last week, the accounting firm of Ernst & Young told Wired News that it had signed on as a TRUSTe sponsor, and plans to work closely with the group to establish an e-commerce assurance program. Copyright � 1994-98 Wired Digital Inc. --------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------ ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research and educational purposes only. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases (up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message "Please enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to: ISPIClips at ama-gi.com . The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia (Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no government funding and takes a global perspective. ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research into electronic, personal and financial privacy with a view toward helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy. But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and generous financial support. If you value in the ISPI Clips service or if you are concerned about the erosion of your privacy in general, won't you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI Clips Supporter" or by taking out an institute Membership? We gratefully accept all contributions: Less than $60 ISPI Clips Supporter $60 - $99 Primary ISPI Membership (1 year) $100 - $300 Senior ISPI Membership (2 years) More than $300 Executive Council Membership (life) Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership. For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com . We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to any third party. ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Thu Oct 8 14:50:20 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 05:50:20 +0800 Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.26: Coalition Announces Intiative for Online Privacy Message-ID: <199810082123.OAA29179@netcom13.netcom.com> From: "ama-gi ISPI" Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.26: Coalition Announces Intiative for Online Privacy Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 00:32:02 -0700 To: ISPI Clips 5.26: Coalition Announces Initiative for Online Privacy News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) Thursday October 8, 1998 ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This From: The New York Times (Cybertimes), October 7, 1998 http://www.nytimes.com Coalition Announces Initiative for Online Privacy http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/98/10/cyber/articles/07privacy.html By JERI CLAUSING, jeri at nytimes.com ASHINGTON -- A coalition of major Internet companies on Wednesday unveiled a sweeping online advertising campaign to teach consumers and Web sites operators how to protect personal privacy on the Internet. The initiative, which is being launched with the equivalent of $4 million in Internet advertising banner commitments, was described as a huge grassroots consumer education program that is expected to reach 9 of every 10 Internet users. Called the Privacy Partnership [ http://www.truste.org/partners/ ], the campaign was started by TrustE [ http://www.truste.org/ ], an independent, nonprofit organization dedicated to building trust in the Internet, and eight major Internet gateways, including America Online, Yahoo!, Excite, Infoseek, Lycos, Microsoft, Netscape and Snap. A number of other companies have since joined, and any Web site operator can download a banner ad that has links to a privacy Web site. "The Internet is medium for communications and commerce, but users' anxiety and uncertainty about sharing personal information are preventing people from taking advantage of the Internet's full potential, " said Susan Scott, executive director of TrustE." The announcement comes at a time when companies are working to prove to federal lawmakers and regulators that they can establish an effective a voluntary framework to control the use of personal information collected online. Many of the companies involved in the new partnership are also members of the Online Privacy Alliance, which has drafted guidelines http://www.privacyalliance.org/ ] and an enforcement plan for companies to follow when collecting personal information from consumers on the Internet. The Clinton Administration, which has taken a hands-off approach to Internet regulation, supports self-regulation of privacy policies. But the Federal Trade Commission, which earlier this year released a survey of that painted a dismal picture of the state of privacy protections online, has recommended that Congress pass a bill to protect children from online marketers, and that protections be extended to all consumers if self-regulation has not made significant progress by January. On Tuesday, groups pushing for strong privacy laws released a study showing that nearly all industrialized countries have either adopted or are in the process of adopting comprehensive privacy laws. The report by the Global Internet Liberty Campaign, an international coalition of civil rights groups [ http://www.gilc.org/ ], found that countries are adopting these laws in many cases to address past governmental abuses, such as in former Eastern Bloc countries; to promote electronic commerce, or to ensure compatibility with international standards developed by the European Union, the Council of Europe, and the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. "This report shows that there is substantial international support for privacy protection," said David Banisar, policy director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center in Washington, D.C., and one of the authors of the report. His co-author, Simon Davies, director general of Privacy International, said, "The United States risks isolating itself from worldwide electronic commerce with its opposition to adequate and enforceable privacy rights." On Oct. 25, an European Union directive takes effect that is expected to toughen national laws of 15 European governments whose privacy standards are already more stringent than those of the United. The European laws require that corporations get people's permission before collecting demographic or marketing information about them. Without strong national standards in the United States, Banisar said many companies may find themselves unable to engage in electronic commerce in Europe. Clinton Administration officials, however, have for months been working with the European Union trying to convince European officials that the standards voluntarily being enacted by American companies are sufficient. And President Clinton's top Internet adviser, Ira C. Magaziner, insists current efforts by industry will be acceptable. "Things are moving along well now with self-regulation," Magaziner said Tuesday. "We still need to see fully implemented results, but I think those who advocate legislation assume that just as soon as you pass a law everything is fine. Laws still have to be implemented and enforced. And we question the effectiveness of enforcement of some of those laws. If self-regulation works as we are hoping and expect, it will still be the most effective way." The Privacy Partnership advertising blitz begins Oct. 12 and will run through Oct. 31. The campaign will use banner ads with links to a welcome message from the Privacy Partnership. That message has two links. One takes people to a TrustE site with information about how consumers can protect their privacy online. The other will allow Web site operators to join the Privacy Partnership by downloading the campaign's banner ads. It will also provide Web site operators with more information on privacy principles and tools to generate a privacy statement. "For trust to be engendered on the Internet, companies must clearly state what personal information they are collecting, how the information will be used, and the choices available to the individual regarding the collection, use and distribution of that information," Scott said. "If we can alleviate consumer anxiety about what happens to their data. Then everybody will do well." Copyright 1998 The New York Times Company --------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------ ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research and educational purposes only. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases (up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message "Please enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to: ISPIClips at ama-gi.com . The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia (Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no government funding and takes a global perspective. ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research into electronic, personal and financial privacy with a view toward helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy. But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and generous financial support. If you value in the ISPI Clips service or if you are concerned about the erosion of your privacy in general, won't you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI Clips Supporter" or by taking out an institute Membership? We gratefully accept all contributions: Less than $60 ISPI Clips Supporter $60 - $99 Primary ISPI Membership (1 year) $100 - $300 Senior ISPI Membership (2 years) More than $300 Executive Council Membership (life) Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership. For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com . We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to any third party. ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Thu Oct 8 14:50:30 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 05:50:30 +0800 Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.24: Privacy Campaign Plods Ahead Message-ID: <199810082123.OAA29156@netcom13.netcom.com> From: "ama-gi ISPI" Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.24: Privacy Campaign Plods Ahead Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 00:29:48 -0700 To: ISPI Clips 5.24: Privacy Campaign Plods Ahead News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) Thursday October 8, 1998 ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This From: WIRED News, Wednesday October 7, 1998 http://www.wired.com Privacy Campaign Plods Ahead http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/15467.html By Niall McKay, niall at wired.com In the wake of a costly ad campaign designed to raise consumer awareness about the cryptography debate in Washington, a coalition of Internet industry companies, privacy activists, and elected officials will turn to letter writing. The Americans for Computer Privacy [ http://www.computerprivacy.org/ ] said Wednesday that the group will send a barrage of missives to the government. One letter will target every member of Congress and stress the need to build on recent government policy relaxing encryption restrictions with "solid legislation." The group will also call on Vice President Al Gore "to make sure that the good fight to protect American privacy is regulated." Americans for Computer Privacy has been waging a public campaign to educate consumers about the complex crypto issue, in an effort to get grassroots support behind their drive to liberalize the federal government's encryption policy. In July, the group launched a TV and Internet advertising campaign designed to educate consumers about the need for privacy. The campaign was created by the public-policy advertising firm Goddard-Claussen, best known for its "Harry & Louise" commercials. That high-profile series featured a yuppie couple and aimed to undercut the Clinton administration's health-care reform initiative. The current campaign by the Americans for Computer Privacy is reportedly being closely watched by the FBI and other intelligence agencies. At this point, it is unclear to what degree the campaign has altered the course of legislation. In its latest lobbying effort, the group will urge both the White House and Congress to reconsider legislation that would ease export restrictions on strong encryption and ban the imposition of mandatory key-recovery features in software sold in the United States. The legislation in question includes such bills as the "E-Privacy Act" (S. 2067), the "Security and Freedom Through Encryption Act" (SAFE, HR 695), and "The Secure Public Networks Act" (S. 909). The letters are backed by an unusual alliance of Republican and Democrats including members of congress Bob Goodlatte, (R-Virginia), Rick White (R-Washington), Zoe Lofgren (D-California) and Samuel Gejdenson (D-Connecticut), as well as Senators John Ashcroft (R-Missouri), Conrad Burns (R-Montana), and Ron Wyden (D-Oregon). Copyright � 1994-98 Wired Digital Inc. --------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------ ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research and educational purposes only. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases (up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message "Please enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to: ISPIClips at ama-gi.com . The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia (Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no government funding and takes a global perspective. ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research into electronic, personal and financial privacy with a view toward helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy. But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and generous financial support. If you value in the ISPI Clips service or if you are concerned about the erosion of your privacy in general, won't you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI Clips Supporter" or by taking out an institute Membership? We gratefully accept all contributions: Less than $60 ISPI Clips Supporter $60 - $99 Primary ISPI Membership (1 year) $100 - $300 Senior ISPI Membership (2 years) More than $300 Executive Council Membership (life) Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership. For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com . We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to any third party. ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Thu Oct 8 14:50:46 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 05:50:46 +0800 Subject: IP: Cashless CompuBank Launches Today Nationwide Message-ID: <199810082123.OAA29202@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Cashless CompuBank Launches Today Nationwide Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 09:13:01 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com VIRTUAL BANK CompuBank, the first virtual US bank to receive a charter from the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency and approval from the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, launches today in all US states. It has no physical branches. As well as the usual bank services, features include real-time access to accounts 24 hours a day, viewable transaction history for the last year, and online wire transfers. See http://www.compubank.com ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Thu Oct 8 14:55:04 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 05:55:04 +0800 Subject: IP: White House Accused of Data Theft Message-ID: <199810082124.OAA29249@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: White House Accused of Data Theft Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 10:12:25 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com Source: Washington Post http://search.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WAPO/19981007/V000584-100798-idx.html White House Accused of Data Theft By John Solomon Associated Press Writer Wednesday, October 7, 1998; 7:42 p.m. EDT WASHINGTON (AP) -- A Republican-led House subcommittee accused President Clinton and the White House of ``theft of government property'' Wednesday in transferring data to the Democratic Party for fund-raising purposes. Seeking to gain the attention of impeachment investigators, a stinging report written by Republican congressional staffers detailed evidence they contend conflicts with some of the White House's earlier assertions about the use of a $1.7 million taxpayer-financed database created inside the executive mansion. ``The committee issues this report to expose the evidence of the president's possible involvement in the theft of government property and his abuse of power,'' said the report by the investigative subcommittee of the House Government Reform and Oversight Committee. The report cites testimony from top Democratic fund-raisers who acknowledged they got names and addresses from the White House database on a regular basis and used them to solicit donations or plan White House events for donors. ``Richard Sullivan, the DNC finance director, himself testified that he obtained lists of attendance at White House CEO lunches and the White House Economic Conference and that he used those lists to raise money,'' the report states. Originally, presidential aides insisted White House staff and the database were used only for official purposes and none of it was misused for fund raising. Federal law prohibits the use of government resources for fund raising or other political or private purposes. Those who misuse such resources can be charged with stealing government resources. White House officials said Wednesday the DNC was only authorized to use its data for invitation lists, and if information was used for anything else that was inappropriate. ``This White House, like the Bush and Reagan White House, keeps names and addresses of our supporters, and tries to ensure that they are included in White House events,'' spokesman Barry Toiv said. Toiv charged the subcommittee report was ``irresponsible and deceptive and highly partisan'' and excluded ``information that contradicts'' its allegations. The report directly accused Clinton of knowing about and instigating the misuse of federal resources for political purposes. Among the examples it cited were internal White House documents indicating that the president instructed that information he obtained from official White House e-mail or other sources be sent to his political campaign. ``Quite frequently the president will ask that certain names and addresses be added to the supporter file. ... Attached is a list of supporter file information,'' a 1994 White House memo said, asking that the information be forwarded to a separate campaign database Clinton instructed be built in Arkansas. White House officials said there was nothing wrong with Clinton forwarding to his campaign, for example, business cards he had received at the White House and said there was no evidence he sent wholesale portions of government data. The report also cites a document showing Clinton authorized a job description for a top aide, Marsha Scott, that included a responsibility for ``insuring ... supporters were involved in fund-raising activities'' such as the controversial White House coffees. Presidential aides defended Scott's job description, noting political appointees aren't forbidden by law from doing political work provided they don't solicit donations. The subcommittee also referred White House deputy counsel Cheryl Mills to the Justice Department for criminal investigation, alleging that in 1996 she located two subpoenaed documents suggesting that Clinton and his wife, Hillary, sanctioned the use of the White House database for political purposes but withheld them from the committee for months -- until after the 1996 election. It also accused her of lying about aspects of the database to the committee. Ms. Mills has said she did not believe the documents were responsive to the subpoena when she first reviewed them and sought the advice of her superiors who agreed. She denies any effort to mislead investigators. And the top Democrat on the Government Reform committee wrote the Justice Department saying he disagreed with the GOP referral, saying Ms. Mills may have made a mistake but there was no evidence of willful obstruction. The release of the report is part of a broader effort by Republicans in Congress to make public information that they think should be considered in the impeachment inquiry the House is set to approve Thursday. Rep. David McIntosh, R-Ind., said Wednesday it was ``premature'' to predict whether his findings would be incorporated into the House Judiciary Committee's impeachment investigation on the president's relationship with Monica Lewinsky. ``This isn't about sex. This is about abusing his official privilege for personal and political gain,'' McIntosh said. The inquiry into the database, which contained the names of individuals who have contact with the White House or president, has been conducted over the last two years without the same fanfare of higher profile investigations of Ms. Lewinsky, Whitewater, FBI files and the White House travel office firings. Nonetheless, the investigators said they found White House documents with official government data -- including holiday card lists -- at the DNC and the Clinton campaign. White House officials said some of the list were accidentally sent by vendors. � Copyright 1998 The Associated Press ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From guy at panix.com Thu Oct 8 14:57:14 1998 From: guy at panix.com (Information Security) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 05:57:14 +0800 Subject: does Web TV use forward secret cipher-suites? (Re: Web TV with 128b exported) Message-ID: <199810082135.RAA22270@panix7.panix.com> > From: Adam Back > > This is as others have noted cisco's doorbelling approach to GAK -- > having routers and automated systems doing decryption, and allowing > LEA either direct access (possibly in this case), or access via > complicit operators. > > One question which might help determins just how bad this Web TV thing > is, is does it use the forward secret ciphersuites. > > If it did use FS ciphersuites, if the LEA starts reading traffic after > some point (by asking the WebTV operators to do so, or by using a > special LEA operator mode), he can't get all old traffic. > > The EDH (ephemeral DH) modes are forward secret because a new DH key > is generated for each session. > > Some of the RSA modes are forward secret, but only on export grade RSA > key sizes (512 bit). > > As it got export permission, I fear the worst. Perhaps even special > LEA operator access. Normally, an announcement of 128-bit crypto capabilities for a home computer would mean the user has control of said crypto. The WebTV computer: http://developer.webtv.net/docs/sysgde/Default.htm o WebTV supports connectivity to the ISP of your choice. o Internet access (PPP, PAP) o HTML 1.0; HTML 2.0; HTML 3.2; frames compatibility; JavaScript 1.2 o Image: GIF89a animation; JPEG; Progressive JPEG; PNG; TIFF-G3 fax in e-mail; X bitmap; Macromedia[tm] Flash 1.0 o Audio: AU; . WAV; Real Audio 1.0; 2.0; 3.0; AIFF; Shockwave[tm] Audio; GSM; MPEG-1 Audio; MPEG-2 Audio; MPEG Layer 3; MOD; General MIDI; MIDI Karaoke; Quicktime audio; Zip decompression o Video: PEG-1 Video; MPEG-3 Video; VideoFlash[tm] o Processor: 112/167 Mhz R4640 processor o Security: SSL version 2 and 3; 40bit and 128bit RC4 encryption; root certificates for GTE, RSA Data Security (VeriSign), Thawte, and VeriSign Class 3 digital certificates Can WebTV send end-to-end encrypted email to any other Net user? Nope. The press release claiming WebTV has 128-bit security is another low in advertising obtuseness. ---guy From fod at brd.ie Thu Oct 8 15:50:44 1998 From: fod at brd.ie (Frank O'Dwyer) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 06:50:44 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) In-Reply-To: <199810081945.UAA14149@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: <361D3BD9.328931B5@brd.ie> Adam Back wrote: > You seem to be > arguing that the primary goal should be to have best security, from > the outset. ie one gets the impression from reading your previous two > posts that you consider ultimate security more important than > deployment. If this is what you are saying, I disagree. No, I am arguing that if deployment of privacy is your goal, then you need _some_ base level of security before you've really deployed privacy. Deploying crypto is not the same thing. I do agree that it's important to get stuff "out there" in whatever form (partly to get it fixed, but mainly so it can't be shut down). I just think the closed source route is a dead end. I also think that the free crypto libraries exist, and now it would be nice to see free crypto applications. By that I mean turnkey stuff with Windows installation programs and GUIs that normal people can use--and *source* (turnkey for developers too). Make it easy to have privacy, basically. [...] > if people mention software, it is nice to know some details: > why should we be interested in your software etc. Well, it's early days (I am just designing and prototyping now), but my goal is to make a decentralised secure messaging client that ordinary ISP users can use without any special resources. Something like icq, but with crypto and without any central server, the intention being that it would be easier to set up and harder to filter or shut down. I have in mind an abstract messaging service that can be extended to use whatever channel or drop-point happens to be available (e.g. irc, direct sockets, email, remailers, ftp, usenet, intermediaries, icq). So for example you could use irc just to rendezvous with someone (or meet them in the first place), then use diffie-hellman to establish a private channel for a real-time chat, then subsequently use an ftp site or a newsgroup to exchange offline messages. The challenge is to make this easy. It's something I want for myself, but I figure with the addition of a nice GUI and an installer etc., it could be of wider interest. (And no, I have no idea when I'll have some code to show, but I guess now I've mentioned it I better finish it :) Cheers, Frank O'Dwyer. From petro at playboy.com Thu Oct 8 15:52:54 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 06:52:54 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) In-Reply-To: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A28@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com> Message-ID: At 6:28 PM -0500 10/6/98, Matthew James Gering wrote: >Jim Choate wrote: >> > The only problem is your statement that one can dominate >> > "saturable" markets without some artificial "mechanism." >> Who said anything about 'artificial'? >I did. I state you cannot have a coercive monopoly without artificial >barriers (and hence a free market cannot have a coercive monopoly) and >you disagree. I am not sticking any terms where they don't go, you have >consistently theorized monopolies can exist in a free market. He is right--to an extent. Monopolies _can_ exist in a free market under 2 conditions: 1) Early stages of a market, when the creator/initial entrant has a lead on the competition. This will (without "government" intervention) end at some point unless: B) a competitor emerges that manages to meet the entire markets desires for goods and services in such a way that profits are so thin as to not attract competion. (1) can be effectively ignored, it is a localized (in time) condition that the market will usually remedy. It is (b) where the questions come in. I have maintained that Monopolies in ANY market large enough to accept competition (i.e. larger than one or two purchasers) cannot continue to exist (in fact would have a hard time coming into existence) without some sort of government influence. Jim maintains that this is not only possible, but happens UNLESS the government steps in. Of course Jim has in the cotext of this discussion defined monopoly as a number of producers/distributers greater than 2 which are acting in alleged collusion for certain lengths of time. This ignores the fact that like in _any_ system one must account for a certain latency in a market for corrections to take place. It also ignores the fact that no two (especially not 5 or 6) people can agree on anything for long. Look at OPEC, they have a "monopoly" of sorts (for very loose definitions of monopoly), and they can't seem to stay in agreement for more than a couple months. >Perhaps you should re-read my statement and not assume negatives where I >clearly did not write them. > >> talking a free-market, there are *only* two participants; > >That is a twisted and absolutely unjustified definition of a free >market. A free market lacks forceful restriction or prohibition of free >[consensual] trade. In a free market, having only 2 participants should be the definition of a monopoly. Any more than that, and the monopoly would start to degrade. >EXCEPT that which violates individual rights. I will argue that an >anarcho-capitalist market that treats force as a commodity is NOT a free >market. Why not? As long as force is susuptible (mind went blank, can't spell it) to capital, and can be bought and sold, then it becomes a part of the equation just like an extremely efficient manufacturing process, the availablity of cheap energy, or a lazy, bloated competitor. >> > You will find that that is not possible without an >> > artificial barrier to competition. >> >> Demonstrate please. The problem with this view is that it >> implies that given sufficient time *any* market strategy >> will fail. In other words there is no best or efficient >> strategy for a given market. > >There is but ONE market strategy: to price at a point lower than new >entrants could sustain their business, and constantly increase >productive efficiency and reduce costs. No, there isn't. Sometimes you can put your price point higher than the competition would necessarily come in with, and trade off reputation capitol for the extra. Look at the atheltic shoe market, you have Nike, Rebok, and a couple others. No, let's say I have a shoe that is demonstratably better (by any margin) than the best shoe out there. I even have a marketing funding to compete with Nike. Will I be able to out price them? No. Even if I had a manufacturing process that let me produce a shoe that competeted with Nikes $150 shoes for about .50c, I couldn't price them at that level. I _could_ price them about $50, and grow. This is a bad example because there are a lot more variables in the shoe market than in something very simple like electricity, or water. >This works great in the short term, especially in emerging industries, >but it is statistically improbable for a company to maintain perfection. >The market is not static, it is always changing and technology often >favors new entrants who are not encumbered with legacy technology. Then there isn't "one market strategy", strategies must change and develop with times and products. There would be different strategies for different products, and at different points in a products life cycle. >It is less relevant that such a company is unlikely to maintain that >position forever, but that such efficient dominance is good for the >market. Productive efficiency raises the standard of living. Alcoa. So good no one felt the need to compete. A monopoly that wasn't a problem. -- "To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather na�ve, and certainly unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust" http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro at playboy.com::petro at bounty.org From mmotyka at lsil.com Thu Oct 8 16:30:52 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 07:30:52 +0800 Subject: Something else about 'freedom'... Message-ID: <361D45C4.18C8@lsil.com> *** My suspicion is that this sort of opportunity is *exactly* what they want. Then *they* get to be the ones using force for coercive ends. *** Isn't this the "kill the unbelievers" scenario? Old and revered behavior. Tribal. Elemental. I don't think 'freedom' means 'anarchy.' Nor does 'anarchy' necessarily mean 'violent lawlessness.' And 'rule of law' does not mean 'safety and security.' As strong as the need for order is, so is the need for chaos. Remove either and we lose. I think freedom comes from order and knowing what to do with that freedom comes from chaos. No worries, no thoughts or you can't really enjoy an evening martini if you drink forty-two of them. Mike From mgering at ecosystems.net Thu Oct 8 16:41:54 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 07:41:54 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A31@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com> The Mafia has had two primary characteristics: a) the use of force b) trade in elicit and prohibited goods and services Unless you can claim a reference to a Mafia at some time and place that had neither characteristics and a market which they monopolized which lacked any other intervention, then this all is utterly irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Matt > -----Original Message----- > > >That's inaccurate. The Mafia pre-dated the US by several > hundred years if From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Thu Oct 8 17:09:09 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 08:09:09 +0800 Subject: importance of GUIs / secure distributed IRC (Re: propose: `cypherpunks license') In-Reply-To: <361D3BD9.328931B5@brd.ie> Message-ID: <199810082259.XAA15504@server.eternity.org> Frank writes: > I do agree that it's important to get stuff "out there" in whatever > form (partly to get it fixed, but mainly so it can't be shut down). Yup, so it can't be shut down is what I was getting at. > need _some_ base level of security before you've really deployed > privacy. Deploying crypto is not the same thing. Well if you personally have any influence over the design or code, make it as secure as you can, forward secrecy, generous key sizes, decentralised design, source code included etc. I'd take that as a given. But I think a company slotting crypto into a product, or re-selling a crypto application (like say Stronghold) is useful too, and doesn't conflict with the first aim. I don't think anyone is proposing not distribute code, rather just noting that encouraging companies to include crypto in their applications where they would not otherwise do so all helps. And in general a free-er license means more people will use the code. > I also think that the free crypto libraries exist, and now it would > be nice to see free crypto applications. By that I mean turnkey > stuff with Windows installation programs and GUIs that normal people > can use--and *source* (turnkey for developers too). Make it easy to > have privacy, basically. This is all important, I agree. Many cypherpunks type coding efforts end up being usuable only by unix hackers, or whatever. eg Magic Money by pr0duct cypher. As I think someone noted recently this tends to happen because the fun part to the coder is implementing the crypto part and getting it working. After that GUIs and stuff is boring slog, so tends to not get done. > > if people mention software, it is nice to know some details: > > why should we be interested in your software etc. > > Well, it's early days (I am just designing and prototyping now), but my > goal is to make a decentralised secure messaging client that ordinary > ISP users can use without any special resources. Something like icq, but > with crypto and without any central server, the intention being that it > would be easier to set up and harder to filter or shut down. OK, I take it back... you are a cypherpunk after all :-) Some people are working on this, I seem to be getting Cc'd on their discussions, which included lately a reasonably detailed spec. Perhaps you could merge projects. Adam From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Oct 8 17:11:50 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 08:11:50 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <199810082352.SAA21802@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:21:26 -0500 > From: Petro > Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) > He is right--to an extent. Monopolies _can_ exist in a free market > under 2 conditions: > 1) Early stages of a market, when the creator/initial entrant has a > lead on the competition. This will (without "government" intervention) end > at some point unless: Actualy, without a copyright or some similar 3rd party regulatory intervention this is one of the points in a market development when a monopoly *can't* develop. At this stage of the game the entry cost is minimal and many potential groups have access to the necessary commodities (real and intellectual) to get into the business. This also happens to be when violence has the highest pay-off in staying in the market. It's the strategy of the business that determines if it can *stay* in the market. To put it in terms capable of modelling, consider a petri dish with various bacteria arranged around it. To start, no colony of any particular type (comparable to business strategy) controls the entire surface of the ager. Only after the market matures and competition begins to reduce the number of colonies and the area of the colonies increases do we begin to see a monopolization effect. This is modelled quite simply with cellular automatons. At this point in time what happens in a real-world business is that somebody gets a bright idea. He acts on that idea and starts a business. In order for that business to grow and prosper at some point employees must be hired. Those employees learn the business and some point one or more decide that since there are more people wanting widgets than there are widgets being made it looks like a good time to quit. That ex-employee starts up a company. The original employer has no way to prevent this short of overt violence, no laws or protective agents have been violated because there is no 3rd party to act as guarantor to the employment contract or the intellectual property rights. Now we have two companies making widgets. These products are consumed and resupplied at a profit and both companies (it is easy to extend this to n-parties so I'll stay with two for brevity) continue to grow until market saturation. Now some folks will claim the employer can impliment a limited access policy to the technology and product. This strategy will not work. As another potential supplier I put out an add asking for anybody who *used* to work in that industry to come by for a job. I hire them, drain their brain, and impliment my competitors system. Once the market saturates there isn't enough 'spare' money floating around to stay in business, hence new businesses in that field don't start up unless another fails unexpectedly; if its expected other competitors will begin bidding economicaly for those potential new customers. The existing employers are always trying to hire their competitors so there is a constant motivation to defect from the employees perspective (ala computer industry). Imagine the impact of these sorts of dynamics on banks and the issuance of effective currencies and how that impacts travel and at-a-distance business (such as across the big pond). Even such technologies as e$ won't solve this problem because for one variety to have a chance at the market it must be widely respected, implying a very large share of the market approaching mono-e$ token saturation. So we create a monopoly in our rush to eliminate monopolies via technology. Monopolies are a function of doing business and not any political or mathematics aspect. It's axiomatic in nature. Monopolies themselves, something we haven't even touched on, have both positive and negative characteristics. These characteristics can in fact be described to a very good degree of precision. Now if there were a mechanism to move a more rational and experience based set of laws and regulations into business then we might make some progress toward creating a society (due to moderated market activity - by a *impartial* 3rd party) where investment in technology and its application toward automation creates a situation where everyone invests a sufficient amount of income to retire in a very small number of years. Another point to be made is at no time have I required these various inter-active producers and consumers to be in lock step or have been created at the same time. Nor do they, in principle or practice, have a requirement for such things as instant market change propogation and rational participants, etc. Those issues are irrelevant except early in human history when these sorts of issues are intitialy introduced into a culture. If people can't fulfill one desire, they'll fulfill another. The result is that the same base set of human emotions and desires, expressed through a cultures bias, that varies widely in content, context, and expression, will in fact find a way to express the same basic sets. What most economists do is vastly underestimate the range of that those individual members. The major short-fall with anarchistic or free-market models is that they have faulty comprehension of a workable concept of a contract. This contract represents a major constituent of what holds any society (which I believe we'll all agree is a requirement for an economy) which is trust in the other members, that they will do what is expected at the right time. In these sorts of 2-party systems there can't be an expectable set of reactions. The contract exists from the time the consumer approaches the producer asking for a price, till the time the consumer has taken possession of the object of desire and the producer has their money. At that point, there is no warranty, no 3rd party to enforce any sort of liability, etc. Because of this the business world is best described by caviat emptor. You bought what you got. Now consider the Prisoners Delima, under what conditions does a prisoner go along with the jailer, or tries to escape (not play by the rules, whatever they may be - in this case the contract between the parties). The maximal payback for the prisoner is to go along until the jailer is lulled into a false sense of security. And then defect. This is wired into human genes, everybody does it because that is how we survive as a group in the wild. People as a whole and as individuals don't mind stretching the rules, it's just a question of what rules and how far. > B) a competitor emerges that manages to meet the entire markets > desires for goods and services in such a way that profits are so thin as to > not attract competion. Not *a competitor*, only that the total number of competitors in a given market can and do meet the market needs. At this point the growth rates of the individual business strategies begin to emerge and high efficiency and long-lived strategies begin to gain the upper-hand. As time goes by businesses either die and are replaced by consumption or else they merge to create a new structure. The major featues of that structure are that it has potential for long-lived behaviour and it reduces the management overhead, and potentialy the work force requirements (but that's icing on the cake). At that point there will be a merge because both sets of competitors want to make more money, that is their sole reason for existance. > (1) can be effectively ignored, it is a localized (in time) > condition that the market will usually remedy. Is a totaly false conjecture not born out by history or theory. > I have maintained that Monopolies in ANY market large enough to > accept competition (i.e. larger than one or two purchasers) cannot continue > to exist (in fact would have a hard time coming into existence) without > some sort of government influence. And I have yet to see an explanation expressed in market dynamics that describes how this supposed process works. Phloegestron and ether were great ideas until somebody tried to measure them... Whew. I've about had my fill of this topic for the time being.... Adios mi amigos! ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From petro at playboy.com Thu Oct 8 17:31:30 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 08:31:30 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810062119.QAA09408@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: At 8:56 AM -0500 10/8/98, James A. Donald wrote: >At 04:19 PM 10/6/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote: >> Who said anything about 'artificial'? You have a sneaky >> habit of sticking terms in there where they don't go hoping >> somebody won't catch it. We're talking a free-market, there >> are *only* two participants; provider and consumer. If I >> allow 'artificial' in there then there is the explicit >> assumption that a third party is now involved. I won't >> accept a bastardization of free-market in that manner. > >Then your argument that free markets lead to monopoly collapses. > >You cannot have monopoly (in the sense of the power to extract monopoly of >profits) except by state intervention as has been proven by experience time >and time again. > >You have been unable to provide any examples of monopolies except those >created by state intervention, such as the railaways, and those existent >soley in your fevered imagination, such as the garment industry. > Given that the textile/garment industry is often one of the first and loudest pro-tarif voices, there might be a government manipulation arguement there as well. -- "To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather na�ve, and certainly unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust" http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro at playboy.com::petro at bounty.org From rms at gnu.org Thu Oct 8 17:41:42 1998 From: rms at gnu.org (Richard Stallman) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 08:41:42 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) In-Reply-To: <199810080556.BAA02511@jekyll.piermont.com> Message-ID: <199810090024.UAA02187@psilocin.gnu.org> Since you've quoted Juliet, let's look at what she is really saying. Your topic is terminology and whether it matters, but Juliet has other concerns on her mind. She uses Romeo's family name as a figure of speech, a stand-in for his family. When she says his name is unimportant, she really means that his family ties should be unimportant. To make her meaning clear (once we decode the figure of speech), Juliet depends on our knowing clearly what "Montague" refers to. She depends on the meanings of words, and names, in order to make her point, even when she uses the meanings indirectly. All speech does. When you use words that have meanings, your choice of words determines what you say. Consider "pro-life" and "anti-abortion": they are used to refer to the same people, but say very different things about them. When you speak about them, your choice of terms will communicate an opinion. If you care about the abortion issue, you probably care which opinion you convey. It's the same for "open source" and "free software". They refer to the same software, but say very different things about it. So how about giving people an accurate idea of what I say? Even if you don't agree with me, you can still do that. From rms at gnu.org Thu Oct 8 17:45:02 1998 From: rms at gnu.org (Richard Stallman) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 08:45:02 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199810090023.UAA02157@psilocin.gnu.org> The SSLeay license is not a BSD-style license. The BSD license is not a typical non-copyleft free license; it has a particular problem. For an explanation, see http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/bsd.html. If you want to release a program as non-copylefted free software, please use the X11 license, not the BSD license. The X11 license is the best of these licenses. From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Oct 8 17:45:49 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 08:45:49 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <199810090031.TAA21986@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: Matthew James Gering > Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) > Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 16:14:32 -0700 > The Mafia has had two primary characteristics: > > a) the use of force not necessarily. > b) trade in elicit and prohibited goods and services not necessarily. What the La Familia represents in Italian social history is a concentration of resources within a geographic region. They were the 'law of the land'. There was no need for violence or any other covert economics. As those groups got bigger and interacted more with each other conflict arose. This conflict was the primary spark in the creation of the 3rd party that hadn't existed prior to this time (note that the market exists before the 'government' per se). The period of time to pay particular attention to in Italy's particular case is when the city states began to coalesce into what we now term Italy. This is a good example because the mountains in Northern Italy acted as barrier to outside influence to a certain degree and the spine of the boot forced life to focus on the sea coast. This made maritime trade and it's speed advantage over foot or hoof obvious. It also allowed a larger geographic area to enjoy a nearly homegenous culture. What is really interesting is that so many cultures have these sorts of organizations. Consider the growth of the Tongs in China with the loss of the concept of tribe within general Chinese culture. Also interesting is that economists as a general population doesn't study these periods to any degree worth mentioning. Historians do however. > Unless you can claim a reference to a Mafia at some time and place that > had neither characteristics and a market which they monopolized which > lacked any other intervention, then this all is utterly irrelevant to > the discussion at hand. Not at all, as demonstrated above. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rms at gnu.org Thu Oct 8 17:55:59 1998 From: rms at gnu.org (Richard Stallman) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 08:55:59 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) In-Reply-To: <199810071026.GAA20270@germs.dyn.ml.org> Message-ID: <199810090025.UAA02286@psilocin.gnu.org> Public Domain status denotes more freedom than GPL. It allows all of the freedom of GPL and in addition, it allows the freedom of making proprietary modifications. Public domain gives person P the ability to make modified versions and give users no freedom in using them. The result is that people in general have less freedom. This might seem like a paradox: you give people "more freedom", but they end up with less. How can that be? It has to do with stretching the word "freedom" to include the ability to control other people. That kind of "freedom" tends to leave other people with less freedom. What happened with the X Window System illustrates this unambiguously (see http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/x.html). One way to avoid the paradox is to distinguish between freedom and power. Freedom is being able to decide your own activities and choices that affect mainly you. When someone can decide other people's activities, or choices that affect mainly others, that is power, not freedom. With this definition, the paradox goes away. Copyright is a power, not a freedom. Copyleft, by blocking this power, protects freedom. The GNU GPL guarantees basic freedom for all users, which otherwise they will tend to lose. From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Oct 8 18:07:40 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:07:40 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <199810090053.TAA22127@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:06:02 -0500 > From: Petro > Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) > Given that the textile/garment industry is often one of the first > and loudest pro-tarif voices, there might be a government manipulation > arguement there as well. They are now, but your use of an example after the market was regulated to argue that the behaviour of the market is due to being regulated is circular. The garment industy wasn't *always* regulated. Prior to the early 1900's they operated carte blanche regarding regulation. 16-20 hr days, 6 year old employees, no insurance, etc., etc. At some point after the turn of the century the social climate changed in such a way that these sorts of behaviours became unacceptable. It could have been something as simple as a series of newspaper articles that set it off. All that was required was that enough employee/consumers figured the shell game out and screamed bloody murder about it. You want to know what sets government off? It's the realization by the constituancy as a whole that their collective suffering isn't singular. A more recent example, and local to anyone in the US is the air conditioning repair industry. At one time prior to the late 70's and early 80's a license from the state or city to specificaly operate a air conditioning service industry wasn't needed. You simply got a regular old business license and a pick-up. The abuses and failures of the industry led to enough noise and complaints to the government to take a look into the industry. It's what always happens, an industry goes along until it gets big enough to be noticed by larger business. What after all is government but a form of business designed to regulate other businesses and activities... There was no government. Then there were many governments. Then the governments have fight and reduce the number of governments. The remaining governments move into areas that other governments don't or can't claim effectively. Then each government exploits its resources until it's ready for another go around. The issue is human nature and not politics, economics, physical force, etc. It's about power and not freedom. Power means you survive another day. Freedom just means you get another shot at it. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Oct 8 18:14:03 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:14:03 +0800 Subject: Something else about 'freedom'... (fwd) Message-ID: <199810090100.UAA22202@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 16:07:48 -0700 > From: Michael Motyka > Subject: Re: Something else about 'freedom'... > Isn't this the "kill the unbelievers" scenario? Old and revered > behavior. Tribal. Elemental. Absolutely. It's burned into everyones genes so deep we couldn't escape it if we wanted to because it means escaping from ourselves, our very nature. What defines what we are collectively. > I don't think 'freedom' means 'anarchy.' I certainly hope not. > Nor does 'anarchy' necessarily mean 'violent lawlessness.' Perhaps if we discuss Vulcans. People are people and people use violence and coercion *because* they are social animals. Further, anarchy per se unfortunately doesn't describe any mechanism that can demostrate an expectation that violence is not a viable long term option. It works. > And 'rule of law' does not mean 'safety and security.' It means an expression of a commen culture through some mechanism. Living under a 'rule of law' is no less oppressive than any other sort of dictator. > As strong as the need for order is, so is the need for chaos. Remove > either and we lose. Exactly why an anarchy won't work, it doesn't even attempt to moderate either behiour and further imposes no necessarily negative result from the use of violence and coercion. Now if a nice little girl comes up against a biker and there ain't no cops around, never was, and never will be - who do you expect to win that argument? > I think freedom comes from order and knowing what to do with that > freedom comes from chaos. Freedom comes from understanding what one can do standing alone, naked, in the middle of a wilderness. Everything else is a compromise of that. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rah at shipwright.com Thu Oct 8 18:16:37 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:16:37 +0800 Subject: WPI Cryptoseminar, Wednesday, 10/14 Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text X-Authentication-Warning: goya.WPI.EDU: christof owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 18:19:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Christof Paar To: "WPI.Crypto.Seminar":; cc: DCSB Subject: WPI Cryptoseminar, Wednesday, 10/14 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: bounce-dcsb at ai.mit.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Christof Paar WPI Cryptography and Information Security Seminar Prof. David Finkel, CS Dept., WPI PERFORMANCE AND SECURITY IN WEB-BASED ELECTRONIC COMMERCE Wednesday, October 14 4:00 pm, AK 108 (refreshments at 3:45 pm) This talk reports on the results of a performance evaluation of a testbed electronic commerce application on the World Wide Web. The study measured the performance of the system using different levels of security, and offers some insights into the performance costs of security for such an installation. In addition, we discuss the performance implications of different implementation strategies. The work represents a joint effort by researchers from WPI and Stratus Computer, Inc. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- DIRECTIONS: The WPI Cryptoseminar is being held in the Atwater Kent building on the WPI campus. The Atwater Kent building is at the intersection of West and Salisbury Street for those coming from outside. Directions to the campus can be found at http://www.wpi.edu/About/Visitors/directions.html TALKS IN THE FALL '98 SEMESTER: 8/12 Kris Gaj, George Mason University Quantum Computers and Classical Supercomputers as a Threat to Existing Ciphers. 10/6 Christof Paar, WPI Report on AES 10/14 David Finkel, CS Dept., WPI Performance and Security in Web-based Electronic Commerce 10/28 Thomas Blum, WPI Efficient FPGA Architectures for Public-Key Algorithms [other talks to be announced] See also http://ece.WPI.EDU/Research/crypt/seminar/index.html for abstracts of some of the talks. MAILING LIST: If you want to be added to the mailing list and receive talk announcements together with abstracts, please send me a short mail. Likewise, if you want to be removed from the list, just send me a short mail. Regards, Christof Paar ************************************************************************* Christof Paar http://ee.wpi.edu/People/faculty/cxp.html Assistant Professor email: christof at ece.wpi.edu Cryptography Group phone: (508) 831 5061 ECE Department, WPI fax: (508) 831 5491 100 Institute Road Worcester, MA 01609, USA ************************************************************************* For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to "dcsb-request at ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help". --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From Marita.Nasman-Repo at DataFellows.com Fri Oct 9 09:18:56 1998 From: Marita.Nasman-Repo at DataFellows.com (Marita Näsman-Repo) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:18:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: MEDIA RELEASE: DATA FELLOWS SHIPS F-SECURE FILECRYPTO Message-ID: <3.0.32.19981009182133.00996100@smtp.datafellows.com> Data Fellows Ltd. Media Release PL 24 FIN-02231 ESPOO FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Tel. +358 9 859 900 Fax. +358 9 8599 0599 http://www.DataFellows.com Crypto-Sales at DataFellows.com DATA FELLOWS SHIPS F-SECURE FILECRYPTO New Product Provides On-the-Fly Protection For Sensitive Data on Personal Computers HELSINKI, FINLAND, October 9, 1998 -- Data Fellows, a leading developer of data security software has started to ship F-Secure FileCrypto. The new product provides strong, on-the-fly encryption for confidential data in the Microsoft Windows NT 4.0 environment. "F-Secure FileCrypto is the only file encryption product on the market designed for companies with thousands of PCs," says Mr. Camillo Sars, Product Development Manager, Data Fellows. "The protection of confidential files has never been this easy. F-Secure FileCrypto is installed over the entire network, and automatically encrypts all files, including temporary files created by programs and the operating system during running. The process is completely transparent to end-users, requiring no action from them at all." The administrator can define a security policy for all installed copies of F-Secure FileCrypto. F-Secure FileCrypto will have a full support for centralized policy-based management later this fall. The program also features a key retrieval function. If a user forgets the password that allows access to encrypted files, the Administrative Key Recovery function manages the situation safely and easily. According to Mr. Sars, "F-Secure FileCrypto is one of the first products to integrate strong real-time encryption into the Windows file system. It automatically encrypts data before it gets stored on the hard disk, protecting sensitive information even in the most demanding situations. If a PC is improperly turned off, or if a laptop computer�s batteries go dead, any open or temporary files will be encrypted and safe." F-Secure FileCrypto also has a feature which allows users to send encrypted e-mail to other users. Encrypted e-mail can be decrypted with a password. F-Secure FileCrypto uses well-known fast block cipher algorithms. Either the three-key 3DES or the Blowfish algorithm can be selected. Both algorithms have been analyzed by the world�s leading cryptographers and are known to be strong and safe. "Files protected by F-Secure FileCrypto are not accessible to computer freaks, hackers, or even cryptography experts. Each file is encrypted with a random session key. Breaking a single key would give someone access to only one file, and the job would consume trillions of years of computer time," says Mr. Sars. F-Secure FileCrypto for Windows NT 4.0 is now available from the Data Fellows resellers around the world. Central installation and management features will be implemented in the next release of the product. F-Secure FileCrypto for Windows 95/98 will be available next year. About Data Fellows Data Fellows is one of the world�s leading developers of data security software. The company�s groundbreaking F-Secure products provide a unique combination of globally available strong encryption and revolutionary anti-virus software. The integrated F-Secure software family provides complete security solutions for enterprises of any size. It includes file encryption and IPsec communication encryption products, VPN gateways, SSH-based secure remote management software, easy-to-use solutions for distributed DNS management, and a full range of anti-virus products for workstations, servers and gateways. Data Fellows is also the developer of the award-winning F-PROT Professional anti-virus product, the scanning engine which is now an integral part of the multiple engine structure of F-Secure Anti-Virus. Data Fellows� head offices are in San Jose, California, and Helsinki, Finland. In addition, its offices, partners and VARs offer worldwide technical support, training and distribution from over 80 countries. Since the company was founded in 1988, its annual net sales growth has consistently been nearly 100%. Data Fellows belongs to an elite group of companies with a triple-A rating from Dun&Bradstreet. The company is privately owned. For further information, please contact USA: Data Fellows Inc. Mr. Pirkka Palom�ki, Product Manager Tel. +1 408 938 6700, fax +1 408 938 6701E-mail: Pirkka.Palomaki at DataFellows.com Finland: Data Fellows Ltd. Mr. Tom Helenius, Product Marketing Manager Tel. +358 9 859 900, Fax. +358 9 8599 0599 E-Mail: Tom.Helenius at DataFellows.com Visit our web site at http://www.DataFellows.com -- Marita.Nasman-Repo at DataFellows.com, World-Wide Web http://www.DataFellows.com From perry at piermont.com Thu Oct 8 18:24:15 1998 From: perry at piermont.com (Perry E. Metzger) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:24:15 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) In-Reply-To: <199810090024.UAA02187@psilocin.gnu.org> Message-ID: <199810090102.VAA05952@jekyll.piermont.com> Richard Stallman writes: > Since you've quoted Juliet, let's look at what she is really saying. > > Your topic is terminology and whether it matters, but Juliet has other > concerns on her mind. She uses Romeo's family name as a figure of > speech, a stand-in for his family. When she says his name is > unimportant, she really means that his family ties should be > unimportant. There are many layers of meaning. There is Juliet, a fictional character, who means something, in saying what she said. There is Shakespeare, the writer, who meant something in writing the play as he did. Then there is Perry Metzger, who obviously meant something in quoting Shakespeare putting words into Juliet's mouth. As entertaining as literary deconstruction can be, what is interesting here is not what Juliet meant, but what Perry Metzger meant in quoting Juliet. > It's the same for "open source" and "free software". They refer to > the same software, but say very different things about it. So how > about giving people an accurate idea of what I say? Even if you don't > agree with me, you can still do that. "I don't know what you mean by `glory',", Alice said. Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. "Of course you don't --- till I tell you. I meant `there's a nice knock-down argument for you!'" "But `glory' doesn't mean `a nice knock-down argument'," Alice objected. "When *I* use a word", Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less." "The question is", said Alice, "whether you *can* make words mean so many different things" "The question is", said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master -- that's all." Perry From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Oct 8 18:31:55 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:31:55 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) (fwd) Message-ID: <199810090115.UAA22377@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) > Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 21:02:23 -0400 > From: "Perry E. Metzger" > As entertaining as literary deconstruction can be, what is > interesting here is not what Juliet meant, but what Perry Metzger > meant in quoting Juliet. Which to have *any* impact implicity requires a commen understanding of what Juliet was saying within the context of human society and *not* personal ego. From that point it's only a question of what literary technique (eg irony or allegory) was Perry the person using. That technique will define the constraints on what Perry can say, not Perry's desire to say anything in particular. It will always come back to what the base definitions of a word are in a given language-culture milieu. Yes you can play with it but *only* within the context of that language. To do otherwise breaks the syntax-symantics connection and creates another language entirely (or more likely gibberish). ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From mah248 at is9.nyu.edu Thu Oct 8 18:54:34 1998 From: mah248 at is9.nyu.edu (Michael Hohensee) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:54:34 +0800 Subject: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810082107.QAA20666@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <361D693C.54152DAA@is9.nyu.edu> Jim Choate wrote: > > Forwarded message: > > > Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 19:58:31 +0000 > > From: Michael Hohensee > > Subject: Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd) > > > > What specificaly is there about the relationship between natural gas and > > > gasoline that leads you to believe that the comparison of lethality between > > > the waste products of a coal plant vurses a nuclear plant is such that the > > > waste of a nuclear plant is more lethal because there is more toxic > > > byproduct and it is in higher concentrations? > > > > Absolutely nothing. That's my point, not yours --or at least not the > > point you made in your previous post. > > It is *exactly* the point I have made from day 1. It would appear that Jim either cannot read his own posts (and this may well be, as I had a hard time deciphering the exact meaning of that last paragraph-sized sentence), or simply cannot remember them. He certainly seems to have a problem with reading the posts of others. > If you believe otherwise the mistake is yours. > Isn't it nice the way Jim avoids having to argue intelligently? He can just take the first statement that someone makes, delete everything else after it, and proceed to do nothing but offer a contradiction. He seems to think that this action is sufficient to make him right, and his opponents wrong. Oh well, if it makes him feel better, who am I to argue? I certainly can't carry on an intelligent conversation with him. Now watch Jim's response to this message. He will: A: Ignore it entirely, as is often the wont of people who have no rational argument to make, and who realize they've painted themselves into a corner. B: Reply, but cut out large portions of this post, and respond with a few trite phrases which prove absolutely nothing but assuage his ego. C: Reply, include all of this post, and proceed to whine about how mean I'm being to him --flaming him for no good reason! (it's true, there isn't a good reason for flaming one such as Jim, they have no effect --but it is somewhat cathartic). While being certain to avoid responding to anything in my previous two posts --or at least not in a way that makes any sense. Of course, I could be wrong. Jim *could* choose option: D: Re-reply to my previous post, and address the arguments which he so conveniently chopped out this time. But given his track record so far, I doubt it. Michael Hohensee From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Oct 8 19:22:22 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 10:22:22 +0800 Subject: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd) Message-ID: <199810090204.VAA22645@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 01:39:08 +0000 > From: Michael Hohensee > Subject: Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd) > > > Absolutely nothing. That's my point, not yours --or at least not the > > > point you made in your previous post. > > > > It is *exactly* the point I have made from day 1. > > It would appear that Jim either cannot read his own posts (and this may > well be, as I had a hard time deciphering the exact meaning of that last > paragraph-sized sentence), or simply cannot remember them. He certainly > seems to have a problem with reading the posts of others. Here is my position. I am pro nuke. Even given the lethality of the compound and the costs related to disposal it still represents a better investment of resources and human lives than natural oil, gas, etc. Yes coal plants use and put out heated water, and yes it effects the environment. Yes nuclear plants put out as much water as coal plants. It still represents the major constituecy efluent from a nuclear plant in regards environmental hazard. The only real question I had regarding nuclear plants versus coal was the water retention process and the manner in which nuclear plants process it (there is a question related to comparing coal to nukes that takes this into account). I was under the (now apparently mistaken) impression there was a regulation that seperated the core cooling water from the energy regeneration system driving the turbines (which drive the generators). The actual process is to release that water slowly over time into the normaly non-radioactive effluent. Coal plants on the other hand do put out over 300,000 tons of solid waster per year for a 1000MW plant. This posses a much higher health hazard (irrespective of some parts per billion contaminant that is the most toxic substance known to man) than the .5 tons of solid waste a nuclear plant puts out. Yes there are stupid laws regarding private processing of nuclear fuel. No, I don't support them and *nothing* I ever said can be construed that way. > I'm being to him --flaming him for no good reason! (it's true, there > isn't a good reason for flaming one such as Jim, they have no effect > --but it is somewhat cathartic). While being certain to avoid > responding to anything in my previous two posts --or at least not in a > way that makes any sense. Um, to be absolutely accurate, I have only 'flamed' a few people on this list ever. Tim May, Perry Metzger, Micheal Frumkin, Adam, a couple of others I don't remember at the moment. I did it in only one or two instances (Hi Timmy!) toward any one person. I think the most offensive statement was calling Perry Metzger a son-of-a-bitch one time because of a particular self-centered comment he'd made. That was '93 I think, check the archives. I don't believe I've ever flamed you. And don't intend to now. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rick at campbellcentral.org Thu Oct 8 19:43:29 1998 From: rick at campbellcentral.org (Rick Campbell) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 10:43:29 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) In-Reply-To: <199810090025.UAA02286@psilocin.gnu.org> Message-ID: <199810090225.WAA06475@germs.dyn.ml.org> Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 20:25:25 -0400 From: Richard Stallman Public Domain status denotes more freedom than GPL. It allows all of the freedom of GPL and in addition, it allows the freedom of making proprietary modifications. Public domain gives person P the ability to make modified versions and give users no freedom in using them. The result is that people in general have less freedom. Your presentation confuses two different pieces of software. It is only the derivative work which has less freedom associated with it. It remains the case that the person releasing their software to the Public Domain has given the users of the software that is released into the Public Domain more freedom to do as they will with that software. By releasing into the Public Domain, the author gives up the power to control other people's activities and allows them to make different, derived, software which might not have the same level of freedom. However, such activities do not detract from the freedom that remains associated with the software that was released into the Public Domain -- freedom that is taken away by the GPL. And while some derivative works may be proprietary, it's not uncommon for other derivations to remain in the Public Domain. CMU Common Lisp is an example that comes to mind. Whether or not Lucid, Allegro, or any other proprietary system ever made use of any CMU Common Lisp code has not detracted from the code released into the Public Domain. This code continues to be maintained, enhanced, ported to new platforms, etc. Rick -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: pgp00003.pgp Type: application/octet-stream Size: 346 bytes Desc: "PGP signature" URL: From bill.stewart at pobox.com Thu Oct 8 20:00:17 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 11:00:17 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) In-Reply-To: <199810080430.AAA01120@snark.thyrsus.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981008194226.008cfdc0@idiom.com> >> Accordingly, I urge you not to encourage an artificial split between >> the cypherpunks and the open-source community. Your licensing argument >> is not with the open-source community as a whole, it is very >> specifically with the partisans of the GPL. - Cypherpunks want to maximize distribution and use of good crypto. Access to source for any product you use is necessary, primarily so you can tell if it has backdoors, weak crypto, bad implementations, known bugs, previously unknown bugs, and similar problems that are easiest to detect when lots of people look at the source code. Secondarily, unencumbered source code is easier to include in products, whether they're public-domain, commercial, freeware, Genuinely RMS-Approved Free Software (r,tm,patpend), careware, Greedy Hoardware, or whatever, and the easier some code is to include in a product, the more likely it is to get used. In particular, if using some code requires paying money to its authors, that makes it hard to include in low-priced products and harder in free products. If using the code requires changing the user's business model, it's less likely to get used, though the Library versions of the GNU license are much easier to use than the full GNU Public Virus, and almost anything is easier to use than Patented Algorithms Only Licensable From David Chaum. These two issues fit together - secret algorithms and secret code lead to junk like MS PPTP or GSM A5 which totally collapse when examined by professionals, and even with available source, there are bugs that can hide for a long time, so the more people checking out a system, the better. Some cypherpunks produce mostly free or Free software, some sell theirs for money while hoarding what they can, some work for tax-subsidized universities where publishing work is critical. - Open Source proponents differ on the tactics they think are most effective in making it possible for anyone to use source, from PD to GNUware. [We at the People's Front For Open Source don't believe in religious wars, unlike those HERETICS over at the Open Source People's Front, who believe that the best way to get everybody to open their source is to give away good source code only to virtuous people who agree to give away _their_ source code under the same conditions, instead of giving it away untainted by even the recognition of the sin of code hoarding like we do.:-] To the extent that openness-promoting tactics interfere with use of good code, they act against cypherpunk goals, though the same can be said about license-revenue-promoting tactics and other attempts to control users. Most of us in both overlapping camps disapprove of software patents, and patents has done almost as much as the NSA to impede crypto deployment, but there are some cypherpunks who have them, and some who believe that patent and copyright _have_ had their intended benefit, which is to encourage authors and inventors by making it easier for them to make money from their work. I had one interesting discussion with RMS in which we ended up agreeing that if software patents only lasted 5 years instead of 20, they'd still be bad but we could more or less live with them, because that would reduce the extent to which they interfered with programmers using techniques, whether the programmer was using a published patented technique or had reinvented it independently and missed it when doing literature searches before publishing. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From erehwon at kizmiaz.dis.org Thu Oct 8 21:02:42 1998 From: erehwon at kizmiaz.dis.org (William Knowles) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 12:02:42 +0800 Subject: A Scud in California! Message-ID: >From another one of the several lists I'm on, I figured someone might know who the new pseudo-proud owner of a fully-operational SS-1C Scud missle *WITH* moblie launcher is... Cheers! William Knowles erehwon at dis.org Intelligence, N. 86, 5 October 1998, p. 12 USA THE SCUD THAT DIDN'T GET AWAY At "Intelligence", we're taking bets that you won't hear about the unidentified British firm which used an unnamed British freighter to import a fully-operational SS-1C Scud missile -- complete with launcher, but missing its warhead -- into the United States. According to a 25 September report in the "Washington Times", special investigators from HM Customs and Excise have been asked to determine how paperwork sent with the system came to be falsified, but they're probably going to run into ... the Pentagon because the Scud missile and its mobile transporter-erector launcher were seized on 2 September by the US Customs Service at Port Hueneme, California, about 56 km. north of Los Angeles and ... next door to the US Navy Point Mugu Pacific Missile Range, and ... the closest military port to the Vandenburg US Air Force Base where all classified US military launches take place. The Russian-designed, Czech-manufactured missile system was licensed for importation by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF), but ... it was wrongly described. Although addressed to a wealthy -- but so far unnamed (and bets are he will never be named) -- US citizen, who is regarded as a bona fide weapons collector rather than an arms dealer, the missile system had not been made inoperable as required by import rules. This is, of course, of interest to the Pentagon. "This is a full-blown missile," stated John Hensley, a senior agent of US Customs Service in Los Angeles. "The only thing missing is the warhead." The launch chassis is a MAZ-543 truck, commonly used by former Soviet and Warsaw Pact forces. "The guidance system was totally intact and the engine was ready to go," Mr. Hensley said. "All you needed to do was strap on a garbage can full of C-4 high-explosive and you had a weapon." The guidance system and engine would, of course, be of intense interest to Pentagon intelligence, and the Israeli Mossad, particularly if the weapon is a later date or recent model. Hensley said the buyer, who lives in Palo Alto, had previously purchased a Scud missile that had been properly demilitarized. Under US law, such weapons may be imported, provided they are first cut up with a blowtorch so that they can never be reassembled. But in this case, in an effort to fool customs officials, a photograph of the first -- cut up -- missile to be imported was attached to the illegal -- intact -- system, which was seized on 2 September. If the "buyer" really wanted his missile, then the San Francisco Bay, which Palo Alto overlooks, is a much better port of entry. Bets at "Intelligence" are also out on the "buyer" being associated with the military- funded Stanford Research Institute (SRI) or similar Pentagon- dependent firms in nearby Silicon Valley. COMMENT -- The SS-1C Scud is a liquid-fueled missile which is among the most widely deployed weapons in the world. It is in service in 16 nations. Iraq's military forces were able to extend the range of the missile ("with baling wire and plywood", according to certain specialists), and used it extensively during the 1991 Gulf war. International transfers of such missiles, which normally have a range of 300 km., are banned under the Missile Technology Control Regime. Although the major media suggested the seizure would embarrass the Clinton administration, currently engaged in a major international diplomatic effort to halt exports of weapons of mass destruction and missile-delivery systems by Russia and China to the Middle East, it would seem more likely that the affair will "drag out indefinitely" in a California court, unless an appropriate "buyer" can be "sacrificed" publicly. --------------------------------------------- Olivier Schmidt, Editor of "Intelligence" From anon at ecn.org Thu Oct 8 21:47:20 1998 From: anon at ecn.org (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 12:47:20 +0800 Subject: readme.txt Message-ID: <199810090445.GAA16013@www.ecn.org> lets not sit here breeding hatred amongst ourselves over software licenses, for god's sake. we have more important things to do. we need to try and implement more different --kinds-- of crypto applications, like tim says in a recent post. we have to work together on this, not spread hard feelings amongst our little group. (really i think the number of people who can write this kind of code and who understand the political part is miniscule.) coopration is key. fucking smash the state. In a closed-door manuever, controversial "roving wiretap" provisions have been added to a major Intelligence authorization bill and passed by the House. Current wiretapping law allows tapping of a particular person's phones. The new provisions would dramatically expand current authority by allowing taps on any phone used by, or "proximate" to, the person being tapped -- no matter whose phone it is. http://www.cdt.org/legislation/calea/roving.html From blancw at cnw.com Thu Oct 8 22:07:38 1998 From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 13:07:38 +0800 Subject: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd) In-Reply-To: <361D693C.54152DAA@is9.nyu.edu> Message-ID: <001301bdf341$3b8f1ae0$6d8195cf@blanc> >From Michael Hohensee: : It would appear that Jim either cannot read his own posts (and this may : well be, as I had a hard time deciphering the exact meaning of that last : paragraph-sized sentence), or simply cannot remember them. : He certainly seems to have a problem with reading the posts of others. .......................................... A word to the wise (& argumentive): check the archives. .. Blanc From bill.stewart at pobox.com Thu Oct 8 22:07:47 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 13:07:47 +0800 Subject: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981008211304.008dce10@idiom.com> Throwing my two cans of petrol on the fire.... >> Libertarians are just cowardly anarchists, they lack the courage of >>their convictions to take the last step and eliminate government Libertarians range from fat-minarchists to minimal-minarchists to propertarian anarchists to even some non-propertarian anarchists. Some of them insist on ideologic purity before working together with anyone else, others don't. Personally, I'm in the camp that says that once we've eliminated the first 90% of the government, we can get to work on eliminating the next 90%, and then it'll be a good time to argue about ideological purity because we'll all be enough safer and more prosperous that even if we don't get all the disparate things we want, we'll be in the position of dodging ranting ideologues instead of cops. Petro, mixing up minarchists and libertarians, says >> Libertarians are just cowardly anarchists, >> they lack the courage of their convictions to take the last step and >> eliminate government altogether. Eliminating governments is a lot harder than disavowing them. Geiger, who's never tried large-scale anarchism, says > Anarchism does not work. It is a pipe dream much like Communism that only > leads to Totalitarianism. while meanwhile claiming that the > Constitutionally limited government of the US would maximize personal freedom. Choate, who's never tried large-scale free markets, says that free markets don't work, and lead inevitably to monopoly, and therefore we ought to use governments monopolies on force to prevent markets from being free to prevent businessmen from forming monopolies, as if governments could overcome temptations that businessmen can't. Stewart, who's never tried large-scale pragmatism, though he's watched other people try it, says that the moral case for government is untenable, even if it's going to take a long while before enough people stop believing it and it goes away, and getting a Libertarian Party elected may be a good thing to do in the meantime, just as the US Constitution and the Articles of Confederation were useful though temporary stopgaps to keep the Brits out and slow down their Federalist replacements. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Oct 8 22:25:48 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 13:25:48 +0800 Subject: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd) Message-ID: <199810090511.AAA23308@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 21:13:04 -0700 > From: Bill Stewart > Subject: Re: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd) > Choate, who's never tried large-scale free markets, says that Actualy it's how I make my living, supporting those large scale markets (I won't argue the free part). > free markets don't work, and lead inevitably to monopoly, > and therefore we ought to use governments monopolies on force to prevent Where do I *ever* say we need 'government' monopolies. Not once, not ever. I have said, and stand by it now, that what is needed is an *impartial* 3rd party. That does *NOT* equate to 'the government'. What is important to my thesis is that the regulator is impartial. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From announce at inbox.nytimes.com Fri Oct 9 00:53:33 1998 From: announce at inbox.nytimes.com (New York Times subscription robot) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 15:53:33 +0800 Subject: Welcome to The New York Times on the Web Message-ID: <199810090806.DAA146876@inbox.nytimes.com> Welcome cypher11, Thank you for registering for The New York Times on the Web! Your ID is cypher11 You selected your password at registration. Your e-mail address is cypherpunks at toad.com The Times on the Web brings you the authority and integrity of The New York Times, with the immediacy, utility and depth of the Internet. You'll find the daily contents of The Times, along with news updates every 10 minutes from the Associated Press and throughout the day from New York Times editors. You'll also find reports and features exclusive to the Web in our Technology and Books areas. You can explore a 365-day archive of The New York Times for free, and download articles at a small charge. The site also features: == Up-to-the-minute sports scores and statistics == Breaking market news and custom stock portfolios == Current weather conditions and five-day forecasts for more than 1,500 cities worldwide == A free, searchable library of more than 50,000 New York Times book reviews == A searchable database of help wanted listings == The crossword puzzle, bridge and chess columns, available by subscription Thanks again for registering. Please visit us again soon at http://www.nytimes.com Sincerely, Rich Meislin Editor in Chief The New York Times Electronic Media company ***************************************** Please do not reply to this message. If you did not authorize this registration, someone has mistakenly registered using your e-mail address. We regret the inconvenience; please see http://www.nytimes.com/subscribe/help/cancel.html for instructions. For more information about The New York Times on the Web and your registration, please visit the Help Center at: http://www.nytimes.com/subscribe/help/ From bill.stewart at pobox.com Fri Oct 9 01:31:19 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 16:31:19 +0800 Subject: Web TV with 128b exported In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981007090445.008903c0@m7.sprynet.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981009010603.008f8100@idiom.com> At 02:39 PM 10/7/98 -0500, Steve Bryan wrote: > David Honig wrote: > > I'd guess that the Export control puppets know that the Web-TV hubs will > > be subpoena-able by the US even in these other "sovereign" nations. > > The WebTV centralized infrastructure makes this easy. > > This announcement seems to be getting a lot of this sort of reaction but I > don't see quite why the news is greeted with such animosity. If a duly > authorized search warrant is required in order to obtain information that > represents a potential world of difference from having unrestricted ability > to monitor all communications. Who would you execute the search warrant _on_? The web site and the browser user? (Then why not let Netscape and IE export 128-bit?) Or some third party who has access to something in the middle (and may not be picky about search warrants, and may not have as much standing to resist a court order or subpoena) ? Or is the WebTV 128-bit code crippleware, using some backdoor key or other hole for police to break in? Basically, it just sounds fishy. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From symposium_online at listserv.gartner.com Fri Oct 9 16:37:09 1998 From: symposium_online at listserv.gartner.com (GartnerGroup) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 16:37:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Free Keynote Webcasts from Symposium/ITxpo 98! Message-ID: <199810092337.QAA05866@toad.com> ************************************************************************ GartnerGroup periodically sends e-mail updates to registered users of GartnerGroup Interactive about specially available research, upcoming conferences and announcements. If you received this message, you registered on GartnerGroup Interactive (http://www.gartner.com). To unsubscribe from all future e-mail updates, send an e-mail to: unsubscribe.updates at gartner.com with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject line. ************************************************************************ In this e-mail: 1) Symposium/ITxpo Online -- free keynote webcasts from Orlando 2) GartnerGroup analyst presentation webcasts 3) Symposium/ITxpo 98 - Europe, Japan and Australia still to come 1) Symposium/ITxpo Online - Free keynote webcasts from Symposium/ITxpo ------------------------------------------------------------------------ At Symposium/ITxpo 98, in Orlando, Florida October 12-16, the largest, most strategic event in the industry, the greatest minds in Information Technology come together to cure confusion about IT issues and clarify the vision of the future. GartnerGroup is bringing Symposium/ITxpo to the Internet. Mark your calendar and visit Symposium/ITxpo Online at http://www.gartner.com/symposium between October 12 and 16, 1998. As a registered user of GartnerGroup Interactive, we are providing special notice to you of the valuable information that will be available for free on GartnerGroup Interactive including: Keynote interview webcasts Select analyst presentation webcasts Daily conference highlights ITxpo Online - the virtual tradeshow Product Education Sessions from leading vendors Breaking news and announcements Special analysis of hot IT topics & trends The keynote presentations feature GartnerGroup analysts interviewing industry leaders such as Bill Gates, Larry Ellison and John Chambers. They will be presented live and on-demand on GartnerGroup Interactive, using video webcasting technology (viewed with the Windows Media Player or RealPlayer). For a complete schedule of the dates and times visit http://www.gartner.com/symposium 2) GartnerGroup analyst presentation webcasts ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Select GartnerGroup analyst presentations will be made available free from Symposium/ITxpo Online. These presentations combine audio webcasting technology and the analyst slide presentations. (Windows Media Player or Real Player with the slides in .pdf format) Free session highlights: Developing an E-Business Strategy Networking Vendor Evaluations: A Magic Quadrant Compendium Collaboration and Groupware Applications Network and Systems Management: Risk vs. Reward Visit http://www.gartner.com/symposium for the complete list of free GartnerGroup analyst session webcasts. In addition to the free webcasts, over 215 GartnerGroup analyst sessions from Symposium/ITxpo in Orlando are available for purchase individually or in packages. 3) Symposium/ITxpo 98 -- Europe, Japan and Australia still to come! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Symposium/ITxpo will take place in other locations as well: Tokyo, Japan 21-23 October, 1998 Brisbane, Australia 28-30 October, 1998 Cannes, France 2-5 November, 1998 To find out more or to register for Symposium/ITxpo 98 in your corner of the world, visit http://www.gartner.com/symposium GartnerGroup's Symposium/ITxpo 98 promises to be the best ever. Visit GartnerGroup Interactive starting October 12, 1998 and get front row seats to the event at Symposium/ITxpo Online! From wk at isil.d.shuttle.de Fri Oct 9 01:38:38 1998 From: wk at isil.d.shuttle.de (Werner Koch) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 16:38:38 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' In-Reply-To: <199810071026.GAA20270@germs.dyn.ml.org> Message-ID: <19981009100220.E11573@isil.d.shuttle.de> Richard Stallman writes: > This might seem like a paradox: you give people "more freedom", but > they end up with less. How can that be? It has to do with stretching > the word "freedom" to include the ability to control other people. > That kind of "freedom" tends to leave other people with less freedom. "Die Freiheit des Einzelnen endet dort, wo sie die Freiheit der Anderen einschr�nkt." Rosa Luxemburg The freedom of an individual ends, as it (the freedom) limits the freedom of the others. [This was one of the former Eastern Germany liberty movements' slogans - and not a communists one] Werner From mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de Fri Oct 9 02:01:17 1998 From: mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de (Mok-Kong Shen) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 17:01:17 +0800 Subject: Post from Anonymous In-Reply-To: <199810082030.WAA12450@replay.com> Message-ID: <361DD830.42711623@stud.uni-muenchen.de> Anonymous wrote: > The article goes on to state that the French secret service, DGSE, has > established listening posts in the Dordogne (Southern France) and also in > its overseas territories, including French Guiana and New Caledonia. The > article attributes to an unnamed "senior official within this branch of the > French secret service" the claim, "This is the game of the secret war," > adding that U.S. listening posts do the same. The magazine report says > Germans who bought into the French Helios 1A spy satellite system are being > given access to political and economic secrets as part of a Franco-German > agreement to compete with a commercial information agreement between the > United States and Britain. There is an Asian proverb saying that all crows of the world are black. From nobody at replay.com Fri Oct 9 02:39:03 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 17:39:03 +0800 Subject: The Cypherpunks Agenda Message-ID: <199810090921.LAA12288@replay.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- The reason for the people getting upset and saying shut up and write is the fact that very few people are mentioning anything about the code. The politics discussed are sometimes reasons why we need more code but unfortunately usually don't give you an idea of what to write. Personally I have sat down many times to my keyboard with a disk of code in one hand and just stared blankly at the screen until giving up and reading the list with a notebook in hand for any ideas. I do believe in keeping the political content, however you can see the difference betwwen pointless dabate on clinton and debating on what project should we devote our time to and what causes are we fighting for and how many bananas a camel can carry. This message isn't to stifle the ointless debate it is to spur neww projects, How do we combine our vast pool of knowledge to actually produce results? One funny thing though, some people filter out anonymous messages that come from the list, what does that say about us believing in our own methods. - ---- Crey, What a world I would live in if I really had a say. >So where is the _rest_ of the code? > >"Cypherpunks write code" is a mantra to shut up any discussion of which >building blocks are important to write. And yet most of the mantra chanters >are actually not writing useful or interesting code, just hacking away in >their cubicles.... > >Sad. > > >--Tim May > >Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash. >---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- >Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, >ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero >W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, >Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Cyber-Knights Templar build 5.5.3ckt Comment: KeyID: 0xF4D1901B Comment: Fingerprint: DB49 2BFA 856F 0B7E CB78 9C3E 0167 279D iQEVAwUBNh3RUqKPqmf00ZAbAQEePAf9G/cDeeQRYtgMqcbSn+4LjqPgPYIsxARR XMutCe6w84p86tQH4KlZMJDjdiYge6Mz+uC/s4C3K16nfJU2n/Ha+ZjOoAzhRg/1 HuZHxEElBt5Wl7FdzYWtT/OGTalYu1NAkOCEq5fKt20gHtGsSgmyVvdyLSLtGEte Ni13807ETgbhH36TT9zusE4lenFEZ9PM+cslapdOzxRx2rJOuEMh1nowcufQ89mE CWDI7mjPBdseKFUXGSPbvC1+FfeLQjFpQUjyp7ggs5AsbXElXOJUJ2VCFeOboGBI 5OK3yDzw04TjgEN7UnzatqebbSO9llu23sbuvs0Ng3/mpgZWeR9jIg== =B+l0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From stevem at tightrope.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 9 02:42:37 1998 From: stevem at tightrope.demon.co.uk (Steve Mynott) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 17:42:37 +0800 Subject: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810081951.OAA20049@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <19981009101640.A29055@tightrope.demon.co.uk> On Thu, Oct 08, 1998 at 02:51:56PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > Then freedom is incompatible with human psychology. People are social > animals and will build social institutions (ie government), it's in their > genes. government is a special form of social institution, one which has a self declared monopoly on force and is immoral. > The point is to create a market with 'fair competition', something that > won't occur naturaly because of a variety of reasons. 'fair competition' is any competition that doesn't involve political force or breaking contracts. -- 1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott steve at tightrope.demon.co.uk http://www.pineal.com/ the steady state of disks is full. -- ken thompson From stevem at tightrope.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 9 02:49:09 1998 From: stevem at tightrope.demon.co.uk (Steve Mynott) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 17:49:09 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) In-Reply-To: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A31@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com> Message-ID: <19981009102419.B29483@tightrope.demon.co.uk> On Thu, Oct 08, 1998 at 04:14:32PM -0700, Matthew James Gering wrote: > > The Mafia has had two primary characteristics: > > a) the use of force wouldn't this characteristic define the mafia as a "state" to some degree? -- 1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott steve at tightrope.demon.co.uk http://www.pineal.com/ the capacity of human beings to bore one another seems to be vastly greater than that of any other animals. some of their most esteemed inventions have no other apparent purpose, for example, the dinner party of more than two, the epic poem, and the science of metaphysics. -- h. l. From mgering at ecosystems.net Fri Oct 9 03:00:10 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 18:00:10 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A33@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com> Not really, the state holds a monopoly on "legal" force, whereas the Mafia and other black-market organizations do not. What is interesting is they use force often because they cannot use the government legal system to arbitrate their disputes. Matt > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Mynott [mailto:stevem at tightrope.demon.co.uk] > On Thu, Oct 08, 1998 at 04:14:32PM -0700, Matthew James Gering wrote: > > > > The Mafia has had two primary characteristics: > > > > a) the use of force > > wouldn't this characteristic define the mafia as a "state" to some > degree? From mgering at ecosystems.net Fri Oct 9 03:25:02 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 18:25:02 +0800 Subject: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd) Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A35@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com> > > free markets don't work, and lead inevitably to monopoly, > > and therefore we ought to use governments monopolies on > force to prevent > > Where do I *ever* say we need 'government' monopolies. Not > once, not ever. No, I believe he said (meant) government's monopoly on force (i.e. regulation, not anarchism), not government monopolies. > I have said, and stand by it now, that what is needed is an > *impartial* 3rd party. That does *NOT* equate to 'the > government'. Wow, I happen to agree, people need on objective framework in which to take their disputes. The only such framework though that need be a monopoly is one that deals with force as the dispute or where force is the end retribution (i.e. you cannot have regulatory arbitrage with force). The problem is the assumption that any such regulator could be impartial. The need for such arbiter needs to be minimized (hence minimal/limited government = laissez faire != anarcho-capitalism). Matt From rah at shipwright.com Fri Oct 9 05:41:07 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 20:41:07 +0800 Subject: IP: Navy's Open Source Security Project Shines Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Delivered-To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 23:28:13 -0400 From: Richard Sampson Organization: Unknown Organization MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com" Subject: IP: Navy's Open Source Security Project Shines Sender: owner-ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Precedence: list Reply-To: Richard Sampson Navy's Open Source Security Project Shines Oct 08, 1998 (Tech Web - CMP via COMTEX) -- An open source security program created by a team of Navy programmers is proving to be one of the most successful high-tech network burglar alarms online. Late last month, the Navy released an unusual warning -- attackers were probing military computers in ways that had previously gone unnoticed, coordinating efforts around the world to keep any individual series of probes virtually invisible. Analysts had finally noticed the potential crackers' coordinated probes using the Navy's SHADOW, or Secondary Heuristic Analysis System for Defensive Online Warfare, intrusion-detection program. "It was partly dumb luck," said Stephen Northcutt, the Navy's lead analyst and programmer on the SHADOW team. But the software's sensitivity to subtle attacks, combined with the number-crunching power of statisticians associated with the project, let Northcutt and his team of analysts tease evidence of the probes out of a mass of apparently innocuous network logs, he said. The SHADOW software is one of a growing number of intrusion-detection tools on the market, designed to pick up and help analyze attempts to break into computer networks instead of simply functioning as a passive firewall-style siege wall. Most of the major commercial-security vendors, such as Axent, Internet Security Systems, or Network Associates, all provide intrusion-detection programs, with support and service teams that can help analyze possible attacks. SHADOW is different in this respect. It is freely distributed online. Like most open source programs, there is some documentation, but no official support -- although there is a huge community of programmers who have looked at the code and have written improvements and continue to tinker with the way it functions. The software itself is the product of more than two years of work by a team led by Northcutt. The code was initially released to the public last May, and revised later in the summer after a slew of comments and criticism from outside developers. It consists of two parts. Sensors sit outside a network firewall, monitoring normal and potentially illicit attempts to enter the network. An analysis system sits inside the firewall keeping a log of activity, and periodically putting this information in front of a human security analyst. In the months since its release, the program has been picked up and used by several major financial institutions, universities, local government systems, and divisions of large companies that don't have budgets for commercial intrusion-detection programs, Northcutt said. "It's very good at doing some things and not so good at others," said Allen Paller, chief researcher at the SANS Institute, a network-security research and education organization. The program can be initially difficult to use, since it requires users to program their own filters to recognize attacks or probes not included in the original documentation. But the program's open source birth and evolution has made it strong and extremely sensitive, Paller said. "The real strength of this process is [the program] has been beaten on." Northcutt is a proponent of pushing the open source model even beyond the development of code, at least in the security field. Most intrusion-detection programs function by picking up unusual events -- malformed TCP or domain name system queries, handshakes between servers and clients that don't look quite right, or other signs of computer probes and attacks. SHADOW and other commercial trip-wire programs do a good job of picking up things they recognize, Northcutt and other security analysts said. But new attacks -- such as the coordinated probes spotlighted by the Navy last month -- require considerable expert analysis to spot. "Attackers have been sharing very well inside their community," we have no equivalent to the underground magazines and other communication channels." -- Stephen Northcutt U.S. Navy That's where the open source model comes in, Northcutt said. Intrusion-detection analysts can function best if information about different attacks is widely and freely distributed. The Navy site that distributes SHADOW publishes much of the information it uncovers, and distributes new filters that recognize new attacks and probes. This kind of open, widely shared information is critical for stopping crackers, but must happen on a wide scale, he said. "Attackers have been sharing very well inside their community," Northcutt said. "We have no equivalent to the underground magazines and other communication channels." Paller agreed. His organization is one of several that sponsor workshops where security professionals can share their experiences with their peers. SANS also runs a security-oriented mailing list with nearly 55,000 subscribers, many of whom served as SHADOW reviewers. "Unless we get communication lines going, we can't keep up," Paller said. "Otherwise, we don't have a chance." -0- Copyright (C) 1998 CMP Media Inc. News provided by COMTEX. [!HIGHTECH] [!INFOTECH] [COMMUNITY] [COMPUTER] [EDUCATION] [GOVERNMENT] [INTERNET] [MARKET] [MILITARY] [NAVY] [NEWS] [NEWSGRID] [ONLINE] [RESEARCH] [SOFTWARE] [TWB] -- ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From support at connectfree.net Fri Oct 9 06:26:47 1998 From: support at connectfree.net (Connectfree Admins) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 21:26:47 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <0111b58341209a8WEB@www.telinco.net> From blake at wizards.com Fri Oct 9 10:06:21 1998 From: blake at wizards.com (Blake Coverett) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 01:06:21 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) Message-ID: <004801bdf3a1$f168e6b0$b401010a@is_blake.wizards.com> >This might seem like a paradox: you give people "more freedom", but >they end up with less. How can that be? It has to do with stretching >the word "freedom" to include the ability to control other people. >That kind of "freedom" tends to leave other people with less freedom. >What happened with the X Window System illustrates this unambiguously >(see http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/x.html). This assumes that writing and selling proprietary software is 'the ability to control other people'. I fail to see why this would be the case. Free software is a good thing, but people *choose* to accept the restrictions of non-free software for any number of reasons. I do not see anyone being coerced into using it by threat of physical force. regards, -Blake (who prefers markets to religions, even with software) From stuffed at stuffed.net Sat Oct 10 01:14:44 1998 From: stuffed at stuffed.net (STUFFED SAT OCT 10) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 01:14:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: EVEN MORE FREE PORN: STUFFED HAS 10 LINKS TO 100S OF FREE PICS, NEW EVERY DAY Message-ID: <19981010071000.27258.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com> + 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS + 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES + DAARIA'S DEVILISH DYKES + NUTS N HONEY + HOIHOI GIRLS + SIBERIAN DAWGY DAWG + LAND O LEZ + A SEXY GIRL + FREE XXX SMUT + DEBBIE'S SEX SITE + WHORES INC + ALL THAT ASS + BONUS PIC 1 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/17970.htm + BONUS PIC 2 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/6896.htm + BONUS PIC 3 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/20802.htm + BONUS PIC 4 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/17597.htm + BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/25803.htm + MUCH, MUCH MORE! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- If you haven't visited STUFFED in the last few days, you're in for a real treat. It's faster than ever before and now, as a subscriber, you get 35 FREE new pics every day, plus over 100 more at carefully selected FREE sites we link to. This email is never sent unsolicited. Stuffed is the supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full instructions on unsubscribing are in every issue of Eureka! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- From adam at homeport.org Fri Oct 9 10:25:42 1998 From: adam at homeport.org (Adam Shostack) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 01:25:42 +0800 Subject: NT 5.0 and EFS -- A victory for widespread use of crypto? In-Reply-To: <361BF3ED.8111C033@bitstream.net> Message-ID: <19981009130500.A18749@weathership.homeport.org> On Wed, Oct 07, 1998 at 06:06:21PM -0500, Steve Dunlop wrote: | The white paper on the MSDN web site says it uses | DESX (no explaination as to what the X is) and an | RSA public key algorithm to store the symmetric keys, | which are random for each file. | | So what's DESX? DESX is where you xor the output of a des block with the key. Has some interesting properties which McCurley? showed in Crypto 97 proceedings. Adam -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume From mmotyka at lsil.com Fri Oct 9 11:18:21 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 02:18:21 +0800 Subject: Something else... Message-ID: <361E4D81.2076@lsil.com> >> I think freedom comes from order and knowing what to do with that >> freedom comes from chaos. > > Freedom comes from understanding what one can do standing alone, > naked, in the middle of a wilderness. Everything else is a > compromise of that. I was thinking more along the lines of : an animal that has literal freedom spends 99.9% of its time looking for food and avoiding predators. The order we impose upon our lives by being social animals give us a more satisfying type of freedom that is derived from leisure. What I see as the real problem is that as the degree of order is increased the society becomes more like an anthill. Which I consider the perfect example of a bioengineered police state. Kind of what corporate America would like all of us citizens to be - predictable controllable unquestioning undeviating uncreative underthethumb consumer units. A key means to this end is eliminating cash and privacy. It's no here yet but it's in process. I don't think it's a conspiratorial effort either - it's more the result of widespread bad behavior. I'm rather stunned at the blatant disregard our representatives display for the basic liberties the moment these liberties seem inconvenient. Mike Don't trust your HW or your SW. There are soldier ant footprints everywhere. From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Fri Oct 9 11:39:07 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 02:39:07 +0800 Subject: Something else... (fwd) Message-ID: <199810091820.NAA24888@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 10:53:05 -0700 > From: Michael Motyka > Subject: Re: Something else... > >> I think freedom comes from order and knowing what to do with that > >> freedom comes from chaos. > > > > Freedom comes from understanding what one can do standing alone, > > naked, in the middle of a wilderness. Everything else is a > > compromise of that. > > I was thinking more along the lines of : an animal that has literal > freedom spends 99.9% of its time looking for food and avoiding > predators. The order we impose upon our lives by being social animals > give us a more satisfying type of freedom that is derived from leisure. Actualy most animals spend 60% or more asleep, only about 10% looking for food (there are exceptions here for the smaller herbivores because of scaling issues related to metabolism). The current estimate is that, for example humans, in the wild spend only about 8 hours out of 40 is spent looking for food. > What I see as the real problem is that as the degree of order is > increased the society becomes more like an anthill. I agree, but I think it's a function of the form of government and not the institution of government itself. A large part of it, which I've stated many times, is that the vast majority of systems that people develop assume the people are plug-n-play. That's a major shortcoming in my mind. I believe democracy has a chance to subvert that shortcoming but only if the participants aren't primarily motivated by compromise, a base human expression. > Which I consider the > perfect example of a bioengineered police state. I'll agree biology has a lot to do with it if it's not recognized for the shortcoming it is. > Kind of what corporate > America would like all of us citizens to be - predictable controllable > unquestioning undeviating uncreative underthethumb consumer units. The 'rational consumer' axiom in traditional economics is a perfect example of how this becomes entrenched (even when it isn't accurate). That's sort of the problem with government in that they want these absolute limits on behaviour, yet so few behaviours are absolutely good or bad. Law sucks when it deals with exceptions. Another aspect of failure in our current system is that the law and its practitioners aren't unbiased, they have a vested in interest in the outcome, not the principles. > it's in process I don't think it's a conspiratorial effort either - > it's more the result of widespread bad behavior. I'm rather stunned at > the blatant disregard our representatives display for the basic > liberties the moment these liberties seem inconvenient. Your preaching to the choir... One aspect that seems under appreciated is that as the population grows the number of people who hold a particular view grow. Since their behaviours are influenced by those views it begins to be expressed as a social movement (perhaps not in the traditional view ala yippies for example) and even a political one. The collective results of all these little actions can in fact behave in a manner that is quite 'conpiracy' like. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From sunder at brainlink.com Fri Oct 9 11:40:47 1998 From: sunder at brainlink.com (Sunder) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 02:40:47 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) In-Reply-To: <199810071026.GAA20270@germs.dyn.ml.org> Message-ID: <361E522D.1082C33C@brainlink.com> Richard Stallman wrote: > Public domain gives person P the ability to make modified versions and > give users no freedom in using them. The result is that people in > general have less freedom. Untrue. Person P may make proprietary versions of the program, however, the program's users may simply chose to not use them and instead take the original public domain program, write their own modifications as needed and do what they will with them. In fact, they may even develop a function clone of Person P's program and put it back in the Public Domain if they so chose. How does this restrict anyone? Oh, they can't code you say? Well, too bad, if they want to use other people's code, let them learn. If one choses to learn to code, one frees himself. Nobody is forcing those users to use Person P's code any more than anyone is being forced to use Windoze 98. Cypherpunks Write Code is something I believe in, and practice. For example, someone today needed to modify several bytes in a binary file that got corrupted in transit. Not having any sort of hex editor he asked if I knew what I could use. I told him to try gdb or adb and such, but he wasn't able to, so I wrote the bit of code following this message. Now, I could make this trivial bit of code proprietary and charge money for it, but others could simply spend some time and write their own. I could make it GPL, and thus let everyone use it, but nobody would be able to copy this code and incorporate it in their code if they didn't want to make their code GPL'ed. So instead, I am making this available as public domain. Do what you like with it. Hell, if you'd like go ahead and modify it and GPL it, do so, but that won't stop anyone wishing to make commercial versions of it from finding this original bit of code rather than the GPL. Nor will it stop anyone who just wants to use the code. So what's the point? As long as public domain software exists and can be tracked down and use, it frees everyone. GPL on the other hand does not. Sure, it frees the users, but limits the authors. Of course the GPL has one advantage that you forgot to mention (or that I haven't noticed.) Should Microsoft decide to grab Linux and produce Microsoft Linux (with or without the GNU utilities) they'd have to produce their sources. --- twiddler.c ----->8 cut here 8<------------------------------------- #include #include int main(int argc, char *argv[]) { FILE *myfile; long loc; unsigned char val[2]; char *endptr; if (argc!=4) { printf("%s filename address value\n all values preceded by 0x are hex,\n \ 0 are octal, else decimal.\n address is 32 bit, value is 8 bit\n",argv[0]); exit(0); } errno=0; myfile=fopen(argv[1],"rb+"); if (!myfile || errno) {fprintf(stderr,"Unable to open file:%s\n",argv[1]); exit(1);} loc=strtol(argv[2],&endptr,0); val[0]=(unsigned char) strtol(argv[3],&endptr,0); fprintf(stderr,"write %d to file %s at %ld\n",val[0],argv[1],loc); fseek(myfile,loc,0); if (errno) {fprintf(stderr,"Unable to seek to %ld in file %s\n",loc,argv[1]); exit(2);} fwrite(val,1,1,myfile); if (errno) {fprintf(stderr,"Unable to write %d to file %s at %ld\n",val[0],argv[1],loc); exit(3);} fflush(myfile); if (errno) {fprintf(stderr,"Unable to flush file\n"); exit(4);} fclose(myfile); if (errno) {fprintf(stderr,"Got error on closing file\n"); exit(5);} return 0; } -- =====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos============== .+.^.+.| Sunder |Prying open my 3rd eye. So good to see |./|\. ..\|/..|sunder at sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were |/\|/\ <--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run |\/|\/ ../|\..| "A toast to Odin, |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/. .+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were.... |..... ======================= http://www.sundernet.com ========================== From associate at alpineforest.com Fri Oct 9 15:42:25 1998 From: associate at alpineforest.com (associate at alpineforest.com) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 06:42:25 +0800 Subject: Associate Program Message-ID: <76C492I2.19NC4W74@alpineforest.com> Thanksgiving is right around the corner! Pretty soon, it'll be Christmas! Are you looking for increasing your income for this busy shopping season? By spending only 3 minutes to sign-up for our Associate Program, you will start making risk-free income from your website. We will create an Associate Store page with a unique URL specifically for you. 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Michelle spammed: >Received: (from majordom at localhost) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA04166 for cypherpunks-unedited-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 14:58:00 -0700 (PDT) >Received: from eshu.request.net (eshu.request.net [207.48.132.2]) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA04161 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 14:57:57 -0700 (PDT) >Received: from munin.request.net ([208.236.140.172]) by eshu.request.net with ESMTP id <901-3202>; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 17:57:45 -0400 >Received: from mail.sprint.ca ([209.148.182.15]) by munin.request.net with SMTP id <114802774-28574>; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 17:57:36 -0400 >To: cypherpunks-unedited at toad.com >From: associate at alpineforest.com >Subject: Associate Program >Organization: Alpineforest.com >Message-Id: <76C492I2.19NC4W74 at alpineforest.com> >Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 17:57:31 -0400 >Sender: owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM >Precedence: bulk >X-Mailing-List: cypherpunks at algebra.com >X-List-Admin: ichudov at algebra.com >X-Loop: cypherpunks at algebra.com >Status: RO >X-Status: > > > >Thanksgiving is right around the corner! 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Message-ID: <199810100115.SAA09632@netcom13.netcom.com> From: "ama-gi ISPI" Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.29: What's on Your Hard Drive That The Delete Didn't Delete? Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 00:40:03 -0700 To: ISPI Clips 5.29: What's on Your Hard Drive That The Delete Didn't Delete? News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) Friday October 9, 1998 ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This From: The New York Times, October 8, 1998 http://www.nytimes.com What's on Your Hard Drive? If You Want Privacy, It Pays to Find Out What Data Your Computer Saves And How to Erase Information That the Delete Button Hardly Touches http://search.nytimes.com/search/daily/bin/fastweb?getdoc+site+iib-site+52+ 0+wAAA+privacy By PETER H. LEWIS For computer users, some of the more startling revelations in the Starr report have nothing to do with sex. Footnotes in the report from the Office of the Independent Counsel include such phrases as "document recovered from Ms. Lewinsky's home computer," "e-mail retrieved from Catherine Davis's computer" and "deleted file from Ms. Lewinsky's home computer." One of the ways Kenneth W. Starr's investigators peered into the private lives of their subjects was to peer into their computers. What they were able to find, and the ease with which they found it, may prompt computer users to re-evaluate their computer practices. Word processing software, Web browsing software and electronic mail have become integral to all sorts of communications, both professional and personal. As a result, many people have files on their hard disks that they wish to keep private, like love letters, confidential business documents or financial data. And many people have sensitive, confidential and potentially embarrassing files in their computers that they do not know are there, either because they think that the files have been erased or because they are unaware that certain common programs on the computer automatically keep a log of what the user does. "Recovering files that were deleted from a computer directory is a trivial process," said Joel R. Reidenberg, a professor at the Fordham University School of Law in New York who specializes in privacy issues. He said a related issue was the computer's creation of sensitive files that the user often did not know were there in the first place. "The user's Web browser will create files, unbeknownst to the user, that record all their interactions," Professor Reidenberg said. "Many people today know about cookie files, but the browser creates a history file as well that keeps a record of the Web sites the user visits. And then there's a cache file that sometimes even keeps copies of the pictures that have been downloaded." More obscure are the temporary files created by word processors, for example, and the so-called swap files that an operating system creates as a way to manage computer memory. These files often remain readable even if the original files are erased. In computers, being safe can sometimes lead to being sorry, as Oliver L. North discovered in the Iran-contra investigation in the Reagan Administration, when incriminating files he thought had been deleted were later resurrected from network backup tapes. In the current Justice Department investigation of the Microsoft Corporation, e-mail messages and memorandums from long ago are being resurrected from computer disks and cited as crucial evidence. The great majority of computer users have little reason to believe that their computer files will be scrutinized by law-enforcement agents, corporate and government spies, or even special investigators. But what about unscrupulous co-workers or curious children or computer thieves? What confidential information resides on the hard disk of the computer that was donated to charity, sold at a yard sale or accidentally left on the commuter train? Examples abound of sensitive information going out the door when government agencies, pharmacies, doctors' offices and other businesses donate or sell used computers without erasing the computers' memories. Last year, for example, a woman in Nevada bought a used computer from an Internet auction company and was surprised to find that it contained names, addresses, Social Security numbers and prescription information for 2,000 people, including people being treated for AIDS, alcoholism and mental illnesses. A pharmacy had failed to erase the information when it sold the computer. The rise in the number of computer thefts and the increased sharing of computers in the home are confronting consumers with security issues that in the past were issues only for big corporations, banks, the military and government agencies, said Steve Solomon, chief executive of Citadel Technology Inc., a security software company in Dallas whose products include Winshield and Folderbolt. "It's moving down into the small office and home office markets, to schools and to home computer users," he said. How does one keep confidential information private? And when the information is no longer needed, how does one make sure that it is completely erased? Both questions involve a combination of good computer security policies and good security software. The software is the easy part. Creating and sticking with good security habits is the hard part. "Technology exists today to protect individual privacy for as long as the individual chooses to keep the information private," said Scott Schnell, senior vice president of marketing at RSA Data Security of San Mateo, Calif. Computer users today have access to inexpensive software tools that can encrypt the contents of a file (including images), an e-mail message or even the entire contents of a computer so thoroughly that it can never be read by someone else in our lifetimes. Other programs can shred unwanted files so completely that no one can recover them. But very few people use such security tools. Computers are good at keeping secrets. Too good, in fact. The secrets can reside on a computer, and on a computer network, long after the user deletes them. The files are forgotten, but not gone. Deleting a file does not really delete the file. It merely hides it from view so it no longer shows up in a directory of files. It's like getting an unlisted telephone number. The listing may not appear in the phone directory, but the phone can still ring if someone knows the right number. When a user deletes a file, the computer stops listing it in the file directory and marks the disk space as available for reuse. Another file may eventually be written atop the same space, obliterating any traces of the original. But as hard disk capacities swell into the gigabytes, the space may not be overwritten for a long, long time. In that limbo period when the deleted file is undead, any moderately skilled computer user can locate, restore and read the deleted file by using such commands as "undelete" or "unerase," which are common features of many software utilities. The computer's ability to remember deleted files is most often a good thing, especially when important files have been deleted by accident. Every day, computer technicians get frantic calls from people who have inadvertently erased the boss's speech or the big presentation due the next morning, or who have children who have erased those boring Quicken folders to make room on the disk for games. At those moments, being able to resurrect the files from the dead seems like a miracle. There are a number of utility programs available that have an "unerase" capability, to be used both in emergencies and as a precaution against accidents. Examples include Norton Utilities from the Symantec Corporation. But as with most tools, "unerase" programs can be dangerous in the wrong hands. To truly erase a file and prevent it from being recovered, one must write over it, or wipe it. There are several utility programs available that enable the user to overwrite a single file or the entire disk, or anything in between. Such programs typically have apocalyptic names, such as Shredder, Flame File and Burn. Similar disk-wiping tools are often included in PC utility programs and encryption programs, but others are available for downloading without charge from the Internet. These programs typically hash over the designated disk space with meaningless patterns of ones and zeroes, instead of the meaningful patterns of ones and zeroes that represent the original information. That process renders the deleted file unreadable in most cases. The key phrase is "in most cases." Just as with encryption, there are people working just as hard to recover wiped files as there are people working to wipe them. Law-enforcement agencies and spies have developed ways to reverse a simple, one-pass wipe with ones and zeroes and retrieve the original file. So the Federal Government requires that sensitive files be wiped many times with random characters, which, in theory, obliterates the original file and makes it unrecoverable. Unless, of course, the file has already been copied onto backup tapes. In the digital world, the original file may be shredded, while one or more perfect copies can exist elsewhere. An even more bulletproof way to render files unreadable is to encrypt them. Encryption scrambles a disk or file, including pictures (or a telephone conversation, or a credit card sent over the Internet) so it can be opened and read only by the person holding the proper key, or password. The strength of the encryption is often measured by the length of the key, which is in turn measured in bits. In general, each additional bit of key length doubles the amount of effort needed for unauthorized users to break the key. Even weak encryption (with a 40-bit key length, for example) is sufficient to deter most casual snoops. Breaking a 56-bit key requires computing resources that are beyond the reach of all but the most determined code breakers, and even then it can require days of sustained attacks by a supercomputer just to crack one e-mail message. (The Government's National Security Agency, by far the most formidable group of code breakers on the planet, is thought to be able to break 56-bit keys in a much shorter time, said Enrique Salem, a chief technology officer at Symantec, whose products include Disk Lock, Norton Your Eyes Only, and Norton Secret Stuff. Some encryption programs available today use 128-bit keys, which are "infinitely unbreakable, at least in our lifetimes, even taking into consideration the predictable advances in computing power," said Schnell of RSA. In other words, it is more secure than the strongest physical vault ever built. Not even the National Security Agency is believed to have the ability to break a 128-bit key. And then there is e-mail. People type all sorts of embarrassing, confidential or intemperate words in e-mail in the mistaken belief that such messages are private. In reality, messages sent by e-mail are less secure than messages scribbled on a postcard. The way the Internet mail system works, an e-mail message passes through several exchange points, or nodes, on its way to the recipient's computer. The system administrator at each handoff point can in theory read the message, copy it, reroute it or tamper with it. If the message originates or terminates in a corporate computer system, chances are high that a copy will persist in the company's backup tapes or disk for days, at least. In the end, there are only two ways to keep information confidential in the digital age. One is to use strong encryption. The other is never to write it down or speak it in the first place. PRIVACY PROTECTION: Who knows what secrets lurk on your hard drive? With luck, and with the following security programs, only you do. PGP 6.0 (Windows 95, 98 and NT, and Macintosh OS 7.5.3 and newer; free for individual, noncommercial use) Philip R. Zimmermann's Pretty Good Privacy, or PGP, is one of the world's most widely used encryption programs for personal computers, so good, in fact, that the United States Government contends that it is as potent a military weapon as a jet fighter or a cruise missile. NORTON YOUR EYES ONLY 4.1 (Windows 95, 98 and NT; about $75; (800) 441-7234.) Norton Your Eyes Only performs a variety of password-protected security functions. It can be set to blank the screen and lock the computer if the user steps away for a minute or to prevent unauthorized users from booting the machine. RSA SECURPC (Windows 95, 98 and NT; $59; Security Dynamics Technologies; (800) 732-8743.) Intended more for small office use, SecurPC links with the Windows Explorer file management system to automatically and transparently lock disks and files with 128-bit encryption, but it allows the keys to be shared with administrators. COOKIE CRUSHER (Windows 95, 98 and NT; $15 shareware; www.zdnet.com/swlib, www.shareware.com, etc.) Cookies are small files that a Web site installs on your hard drive. The cookie can contain technical and personal information, including a history of the Web pages you have visited. These utilities enable the user to accept or reject cookies. BCWIPE WINDOWS (Windows 95, 98 and NT; $15 shareware; www. download.com, www.zdnet.com/swlib and others.) For those who prefer not to use an encryption package, BCWipe provides military-grade file and disk wiping to make sure that deleted files are really erased. Copyright 1998 The New York Times Company --------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------ ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research and educational purposes only. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases (up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message "Please enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to: ISPIClips at ama-gi.com . The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia (Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no government funding and takes a global perspective. ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research into electronic, personal and financial privacy with a view toward helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy. But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and generous financial support. If you value in the ISPI Clips service or if you are concerned about the erosion of your privacy in general, won't you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI Clips Supporter" or by taking out an institute Membership? We gratefully accept all contributions: Less than $60 ISPI Clips Supporter $60 - $99 Primary ISPI Membership (1 year) $100 - $300 Senior ISPI Membership (2 years) More than $300 Executive Council Membership (life) Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership. For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com . We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to any third party. ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Fri Oct 9 18:35:32 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 09:35:32 +0800 Subject: IP: Canadian Military Ready for Y2K Meltdown Message-ID: <199810100115.SAA09687@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Canadian Military Ready for Y2K Meltdown Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 10:18:46 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com Source: NOW On Communications http://www.now.com/issues/current/News/tech.html Militia readies for millennium meltdown 2000 cyberglitch the major concern for Canadian forces By PATRICK CAIN Preparing for a civil emergency resulting from mass computer collapse on January 1, 2000, has become the first priority of the Canadian military, a general told a group of Toronto-area reservists in Meaford Sunday. That means the military is taking the millennium bug so seriously that its worst-case plan, Operation Abacus, is a higher priority than Canada's part in the NATO force in Bosnia-Herzegovina, where 1,319 Canadian soldiers (at the moment, most from Ontario) are helping enforce the Dayton Accord. "Some people argue that it is the first priority amongst many priorities," brigadier general Walt Holmes, who commands ground forces in Ontario, tells NOW Monday. "Our operational commitments in Bosnia will carry on, and so our soldiers who are either deployed to or preparing for those operations will be given the same support. "One can never anticipate what else may happen in the world to cause us to have to deploy soldiers, so the bottom line is, if nothing else from a contingency-planning point of view (emerges) it's the top priority with the Canadian Forces." The problem, often referred to as Y2K, stems from the way computers express the year portion of a numerical date, like 12/31/99. When the code that forms the foundation of modern computer software was being written in the 50s and 60s, programmers decided not to use then-precious computer space for the first two digits of the year. Because computers working on these assumptions aren't aware of centuries or millennia, they will decide that January 1, 2000, is actually January 1, 1900. Because this disrupts the computer's sense of chronological sequence, it can cause chaos and system breakdown. Since computer systems with six-digit dates control everything from electricity systems to emergency dispatch systems to air traffic control, companies, utilities and governments are pouring money and time into finding and fixing the bug. Too vast But because this involves scanning miles upon miles of computer code, some argue that the task is simply too vast and intricate to be accomplished. Rotting food, cranky nuclear reactors, banking systems run amok -- a few hours in the world of Y2K prophecy is enough to make you think a bunker in Algoma full of canned beans might be the best idea after all. Most things we depend on depend on a computer chip somewhere, and that includes deep freezes, nuclear reactors, food distribution systems, banking systems, phone switching systems, wage and pension cheques, taxes, and building management systems without which high-rise office buildings -- and therefore Bay Street -- can't function. "I can't make you feel 100 per cent confident that everything is going to function on January 1 of the year 2000," Ted Clark, the vice-president of Ontario Hydro's Y2K project, told an alarmed parliamentary committee in April. Hydro says it has 600 people working on the problem. But we don't need to wait for the end of the millennium to watch the problem unfold -- Y2K glitches are already happening. Earlier this year, the New York State liquor licence system crashed spectacularly when officials tried to enter a licence that would expire in 2000. More recently, the systems of several hospitals in Pennsylvania crashed when staff tried to enter a medical appointment in 2000. At a conference in Ottawa last week, Toronto-based senior army officers argued for a mobilization plan to deal with military involvement in a possible crisis. Mobilization plan "The recommendation from us is that we would like to see some form of commitment to ensuring that the reserves are able to respond," Holmes observes. "We just said some sort of mobilization plan, to allow us to determine what reserves we may get. (That would correspond to) Level Two mobilization." (In Canadian military doctrine, four stages of mobilization exist -- Stage 1 is the existence of the armed forces, Stage 2 is deployment of the armed forces in its existing organization, Stage 3 is military expansion in an emergency, and Stage 4 is national mobilization in war.) Among the options the military is considering is the stockpiling of food and generators in armouries against a serious emergency. "As to where they're going to go, and what the end result will be, we don't know yet," Holmes says. "It depends on the perceived threat, as we get closer to the date." Persistent rumours that Christmas leave in 1999 will be cancelled for regular soldiers are premature, Holmes says. ("They'll probably wait until everybody's made plans, and do it then," quips military critic Scott Taylor.) One important issue is what legal category military involvement in a crisis would fall into. The armed forces recognize two types of domestic operations -- unarmed assistance to civil authorities, which mostly involves coping with natural disasters like the February ice storm or the Manitoba flood, and "aid to the civil power," which implies the potential use of force. Oka and the imposition of the War Measures Act in 1970 would fall into this latter category. Humanitarian relief "The emphasis would be on domestic operations and humanitarian relief, if required," Holmes says. "We are the force of last resort, and if something happens, we are there to be called upon, but the focus is clearly on domestic (humanitarian) operations." Toronto-area army reservists in Meaford last weekend were told that riot-control training, which the militia in Toronto last underwent on a large scale in the late 80s and early 90s in the aftermath of the Oka crisis, is not on the agenda for now. NOW OCTOBER 8-14, 1998 � 1998 NOW Communications Inc. NOW and NOW Magazine and the NOW design are protected through trademark registration. ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Fri Oct 9 18:35:48 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 09:35:48 +0800 Subject: IP: Privacy, Other Issues Post Difficulty for E-Commerce Meeting Message-ID: <199810100115.SAA09659@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Privacy, Other Issues Post Difficulty for E-Commerce Meeting Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 09:38:25 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com Source: USIA http://www.usia.gov/current/news/latest/98100807.clt.html?/products/washfile /newsitem.shtml 08 October 1998 PRIVACY, OTHER ISSUES POSE DIFFICULTY FOR E-COMMERCE MEETING (U.S. position outlined at OECD conference in Ottawa) (840) By Bruce Odessey USIA Staff Correspondent Ottawa -- As ministers from industrialized countries met to work out ways for promoting electronic commerce, differences persisted on a number of issues, especially privacy. When the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) Ministerial Conference in Ottawa ends October 9, either the ministers will produce a communique demonstrating some sort of agreement or the Canadian minister presiding will produce a communique demonstrating continued disagreement. In an October 8 address to the conference, U.S. Secretary of Commerce William Daley called privacy "the make-or-break issue for all of electronic commerce." At issue are the potential for abuse of credit card numbers and confidential medical and other private information by unscrupulous businesses. Daley was confident that the privacy and other consumer protection issues would be resolved. In a panel session, President Clinton's adviser Ira Magaziner described the U.S. vision for protecting consumer privacy on the Internet, a vision reliant on industry self-regulation, not government regulation. In each country, he said, some independent private sector organization would develop a privacy code of conduct and authorize a graphic seal of approval for web sites that pledge to follow that code. The participating web site would have to notify potential buyers about what information it would collect about the buyer and how it would use it. The buyer would have the choice not to make a purchase under those conditions. In addition, Magaziner said, consumers would have the ability to settle complaints about privacy abuse through the organization, which would also conduct routine audits to assure compliance by its web site participants. Already 70 percent of relevant U.S. businesses conducting electronic commerce have agreed to participate in this program once it becomes established in the next few months, he said. Magaziner compared the U.S. approach with the European Union (EU) approach, which establishes government privacy regulation from the beginning. In fact, a EU privacy directive scheduled to enter into force in two weeks, prohibiting flows of electronic data about EU nationals to countries that have no similar regulation, threatens some disruption of data flows to U.S. companies. Secretary Daley said he remains hopeful the two sides will avert any disruption. "To be frank, we must succeed or millions of transactions between the United States and Europe may be blocked," he said. Magaziner argued that the U.S. vision of an alliance of independent organizations for protecting consumer privacy operating in different countries would achieve the flexibility required for the rapidly evolving business of electronic commerce in a way that governments could not. "None of us know where this is headed," he said. "We have to be very cautious before we act" to impose government regulation that could stifle the expansion of this new technology soon after its birth. The OECD secretariat draft proposal on privacy recognizes the different approaches to privacy and other consumer protection issues -- government regulation and industry self-regulation -- and suggests ways for both to exist. While some EU representatives grumbled that the OECD draft pays too little heed to consumers, Secretary Daley was pleased. "I welcome this commitment to work together to find common ground on this issue," Daley said. "We believe that our self-regulatory approach can co-exist with approaches taken by other governments. "To be honest, it won't be easy," he said. "But with careful thought and hard work, we can get the job done." Privacy is but one in a set of issues concerned about building consumer trust in electronic commerce. Conference participants acknowledged that the level of trust remains low for most consumers, who hesitate to commit their credit card numbers to cyberspace. One of those issues concerns authentication of information exchanged by parties to an e-commerce deal; another concerns enforcement of contracts; another concerns the use of encryption for authentication and privacy. No one expects final answers to emerge at Ottawa. Another area of controversy the ministers are tackling concerns taxation of e-commerce transactions. At an October 8 panel, U.S. Internal Revenue Service Commissioner Charles Rossotti said a discussion the day earlier among government and business participants pointed to some consensus emerging at least about broad principles. First, he said, there was consensus that definition was needed about where products delivered by the Internet are consumed, especially for intangible products like services. Second, he said, participants wanted to promote the availability of electronic taxpayer services, including electronic tax filing and provision of tax information and guidance on the Internet. Third, he said, taxes should be collected in a way that does not disadvantage those who comply and tax authorities should aim to prevent cheating by electronic means. Fourth, he said, existing international tax rules should be clarified for their application to electronic commerce, especially potential problems caused by the location of information servers. ---------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl Fri Oct 9 18:40:50 1998 From: nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl (HyperReal-Anon) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 09:40:50 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <68a7d52256a663771ea3a03bfe2a04b3@anonymous> >HOW MUCH CODE DID 'CYPHERPUNK' TIM MAY EVER WRITE? How much code have you ever written? From shamrock at netcom.com Fri Oct 9 20:22:41 1998 From: shamrock at netcom.com (Lucky Green) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 11:22:41 +0800 Subject: [SF Bay Area] SCSI controller/PCI person? Message-ID: <004c01bdf3f9$e8d01840$33248bd0@luckylaptop.c2.net> If any of the Bay Area Cypherpunks here know of somebody or are themselves knowledgeable in SCSI controller firmware or design, PCI boards, or fast embedded systems crypto, please get in touch with me for a chat. Thanks, --Lucky Green PGP 5.x encrypted email preferred From jya at pipeline.com Fri Oct 9 21:00:22 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 12:00:22 +0800 Subject: EZ Wiretap Server Message-ID: <199810100328.XAA21798@camel14.mindspring.com> Thanks to Sean Donelan, see a point and click CALEA wiretap server: http://www.newnet.com/products/win/calea.html From guy at panix.com Fri Oct 9 21:37:19 1998 From: guy at panix.com (Information Security) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 12:37:19 +0800 Subject: EZ Wiretap Server Message-ID: <199810100419.AAA20079@panix7.panix.com> > From: John Young > > Thanks to Sean Donelan, see a point and click > CALEA wiretap server: > > http://www.newnet.com/products/win/calea.html That's disgusting. o Capacity for up to 512 simultaneous call content intercepts on a single call basis o Capability to incorporate FBI "punchlist" items o Supports Lawfully Authorized Electronic Surveillance (LAES) delivery features o Delivers intercepted call content and call identifying in formation simultaneously to five authorized law enforcement agency collection systems o Supports three service categories: non-call associated, call associated and content surveillance If anyone can get a hold of functional characteristics manuals for the product, lemme know, I'd like to have a copy. ---guy "Punchlist"? Keyword monitoring? From lwpowers at dis.org Fri Oct 9 22:35:23 1998 From: lwpowers at dis.org (Brook Powers) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 13:35:23 +0800 Subject: A Scud in California! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199810100512.WAA11994@kizmiaz.dis.org> This sounds like it could be a dis.org project. Maybe Phon-e and HummerMan are conspiring to rid us of Carolyn in a spectacular way next August. Anyone know the range^h^h^h^h^h distance from Berkeley to New Mexico? At 08:37 PM 10/8/98 -0700, William Knowles wrote: >>From another one of the several lists I'm on, I figured someone >might know who the new pseudo-proud owner of a fully-operational >SS-1C Scud missle *WITH* moblie launcher is... > >Cheers! > >William Knowles >erehwon at dis.org > > > Intelligence, N. 86, 5 October 1998, p. 12 > > > USA > > THE SCUD THAT DIDN'T GET AWAY > > At "Intelligence", we're taking bets that you won't hear about > the unidentified British firm which used an unnamed British > freighter to import a fully-operational SS-1C Scud missile -- > complete with launcher, but missing its warhead -- into the > United States. According to a 25 September report in the > "Washington Times", special investigators from HM Customs and > Excise have been asked to determine how paperwork sent with the > system came to be falsified, but they're probably going to run > into ... the Pentagon because the Scud missile and its mobile > transporter-erector launcher were seized on 2 September by the > US Customs Service at Port Hueneme, California, about 56 km. > north of Los Angeles and ... next door to the US Navy Point > Mugu Pacific Missile Range, and ... the closest military port > to the Vandenburg US Air Force Base where all classified US > military launches take place. > > The Russian-designed, Czech-manufactured missile system was > licensed for importation by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and > Firearms (ATF), but ... it was wrongly described. Although > addressed to a wealthy -- but so far unnamed (and bets are he > will never be named) -- US citizen, who is regarded as a bona > fide weapons collector rather than an arms dealer, the missile > system had not been made inoperable as required by import > rules. This is, of course, of interest to the Pentagon. "This > is a full-blown missile," stated John Hensley, a senior agent > of US Customs Service in Los Angeles. "The only thing missing > is the warhead." The launch chassis is a MAZ-543 truck, > commonly used by former Soviet and Warsaw Pact forces. "The > guidance system was totally intact and the engine was ready to > go," Mr. Hensley said. "All you needed to do was strap on a > garbage can full of C-4 high-explosive and you had a weapon." > The guidance system and engine would, of course, be of intense > interest to Pentagon intelligence, and the Israeli Mossad, > particularly if the weapon is a later date or recent model. > > Hensley said the buyer, who lives in Palo Alto, had previously > purchased a Scud missile that had been properly demilitarized. > Under US law, such weapons may be imported, provided they are > first cut up with a blowtorch so that they can never be > reassembled. But in this case, in an effort to fool customs > officials, a photograph of the first -- cut up -- missile to be > imported was attached to the illegal -- intact -- system, which > was seized on 2 September. If the "buyer" really wanted his > missile, then the San Francisco Bay, which Palo Alto overlooks, > is a much better port of entry. Bets at "Intelligence" are > also out on the "buyer" being associated with the military- > funded Stanford Research Institute (SRI) or similar Pentagon- > dependent firms in nearby Silicon Valley. > > COMMENT -- The SS-1C Scud is a liquid-fueled missile which is > among the most widely deployed weapons in the world. It is in > service in 16 nations. Iraq's military forces were able to > extend the range of the missile ("with baling wire and > plywood", according to certain specialists), and used it > extensively during the 1991 Gulf war. International transfers > of such missiles, which normally have a range of 300 km., are > banned under the Missile Technology Control Regime. Although > the major media suggested the seizure would embarrass the > Clinton administration, currently engaged in a major > international diplomatic effort to halt exports of weapons of > mass destruction and missile-delivery systems by Russia and > China to the Middle East, it would seem more likely that the > affair will "drag out indefinitely" in a California court, > unless an appropriate "buyer" can be "sacrificed" publicly. > > --------------------------------------------- > > Olivier Schmidt, > Editor of "Intelligence" > > From stock-pick at stock-pick.net Sat Oct 10 15:01:26 1998 From: stock-pick at stock-pick.net (stock-pick at stock-pick.net) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 15:01:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: AD: Stock-Pick Discovers Media Goldmine!! Message-ID: <199810110145.VAA11990@mars.your-mail.com> This message is sent in compliance of the new e-mail bill: SECTION 301, Paragraph (a)(2)(C) of s. 1618 Sender : Stock-Pick, P.O. Box 130544, St Paul, MN 55113 Phone : 1-612-646-8174 E-mail : stock-pick at stock-pick.net To be removed from our mailing list, simply reply with "REMOVE" in the subject. Visit http://www.stock-pick.net for full details. Financial Highlights: Triangle Broadcasting, Inc. (OTC BB : GAAY) Shares Outstanding (Aug 31, 1998) : 19.4 Million Shares Current Market Capitalization (Current Stock Price of $0.05) - $970,000 Stockholders� Equity (June 30, 1998) - $2,233,470 - Equity per Share : $0.115 At current stock price of $0.05 we feel this stock to be tremendous BUY at these levels. Currently there are 19.4 million shares outstanding, this gives a market capitalization of only $970,000 - a modest investment could yield enormous rewards for the investors who entered on the ground floor. At current price levels $1000 would purchase 20,000 shares. "Mark Twain said: "The secret to success is - find out where the people are going and get there first". We feel that Triangle Broadcasting, Inc. (OTC BB : GAAY) has followed that adage to a T. Triangle Broadcasting Company, Inc. (OTC BB : GAAY) is launching itself to a right future. They are the first mass media company to target gays and lesbians on a national level. Successful companies always take one step at a time so that they never skip over something important that will haunt them in the future. First, Triangle Broadcasting Company, Inc. did extensive surveys. They found out what were the people's preferences. They also figured out what would be the most strategic way to market their product and what programs would be received well by both the gay and lesbian communities and the mass market. They set up their programming and found what cities they should target first. Triangle Broadcasting Company, Inc. is going to start in 15 cities. They have chosen 15 cities with large gay and lesbian populations. After they have gained acceptance in these markets, they will expand to a national level. They can already be received by over 10,000 stations in the United States and Canada. Triangle Broadcasting Company, Inc. will not expand until they have made a presence in the markets that they are focusing on. Triangle Broadcast Company, Inc. hand-picked it's management infrastructure. They took broadcast executives who had extensive knowledge about the industry. Gay and lesbian nightclub owners were brought in to help formulate the programming. Business advisors help with the complexities of running a business. And last but not least real estate people help with the planning of which communities would be their first targets. After all this was set up they contacted advertising executives of major companies throughout the United States and Canada. The response was overwhelming. With all the above factors, and the fact that advertisers are already lining up, success is almost inevitable. This is truly an amazing company with nothing but positive opportunities in front of it. Once again visit http://www.stock-pick.net for full details. ****** DISCLAIMER ****** This material is being provided by Stock-Pick, a paid public relations company, and is for informational purposes only and is not to be construed as an offer or solicitation of an offer to sell or buy any security. Stock-Pick is an independent electronic publication providing both information and factual analysis on selected companies that in the opinion of Stock-Pick have investment potential. Companies featured by Stock-Pick or company affiliates pay consideration to Stock-Pick for the electronic dissemination of company information. Triangle Broadcasting Company, Inc. has paid a consideration of 100,000 common shares of Triangle Broadcasting Company, Inc. stock to Stock-Pick in conjunction with this company profile. All statements and expressions are the opinion of Stock-Pick. Stock-Pick is not a registered investment advisor or a broker dealer. While it is our goal to locate and research equity investments in micro or small capitalization companies that have the potential for long-term appreciation, investment in the companies reviewed are considered to be high risk and may result in loss of some or all of the investment. The information that Stock-Pick relies on is generally provided by the featured companies and also may include information from outside sources and interviews conducted by Stock-Pick. While Stock-Pick believes all sources of the information to be reliable, Stock-Pick makes no representation or warranty as to the accuracy of the information provided. Investors should not rely solely on the information contained in this publication. Rather, investors should use the information contained in this publication as a starting point for doing additional independent research on the featured companies in order to allow the investor to form his or her own opinion regarding investing in featured companies. This publication contains forward looking statements that are subject to risk and uncertainties that could cause results to differ materially from those set forth in the forward-looking statements. These forward-looking statements represent Triangle Broadcasting Inc., judgement as of the date of this release. The company disclaims any intent or obligation to update these forward-looking statements. Factual statements in this publication are made as of the date stated and are subject to change without notice. From nobody at privacy.nb.ca Sat Oct 10 02:13:48 1998 From: nobody at privacy.nb.ca (Joseph 'Anonymous' Howe) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 17:13:48 +0800 Subject: HOW MUCH CODE DID 'CYPHERPUNK' TIM MAY EVER WRITE? Message-ID: <199810100855.FAA30538@privacy.nb.ca> HyperReal-Anon wrote: > > >HOW MUCH CODE DID 'CYPHERPUNK' TIM MAY EVER WRITE? > > How much code have you ever written? Quite a bit actually. I recently upgraded to a dual pentium II 400 and I wanted to take advantage of the 64 bit capability (2x32 = 64, right) so I've just finished the first beta of the AOL 64 bit port. The question of Tim May's contribution to cypherpunks keeps coming up. I noticed from the comments that the original AOL8 code base was written by Tim May. I hope that clears that up. -- an anonymous AOL64 beta user From tony at starsnstripes.com Sat Oct 10 17:15:01 1998 From: tony at starsnstripes.com (tony at starsnstripes.com) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 17:15:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Dental / Optical Plan 2 bucks a week Message-ID: <> The Dental-Optical Plan . We work with a group of your local doctors and dentists and are offering a Dental - Optical Plan that runs approximately $2 a week for an individual and $3 a week for the entire family with no limit to the number of children! . Would you like our office to furnish you with the details? . Our doctors are grouped by AREA CODE and ZIP CODE The company currently only responds to requests by TELEPHONE. For Details call Toll Free 1-800-447-1996 Please Refer to ID Code 900 This message complies with the proposed United States Federal requirements for commercial email plus Washington State Commercial Email Bill. for information see: http://www.senate.gov/~murkowski/commercialemail/ EMailAmend Text.html To be removed mailto:remove at unlimitd.com?subject=remove Sean Davis 790 W.40 Hwy ste.336 Blue Springs MO 64015 1-800-447-1996 From tony at starsnstripes.com Sat Oct 10 17:15:01 1998 From: tony at starsnstripes.com (tony at starsnstripes.com) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 17:15:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Dental / Optical Plan 2 bucks a week Message-ID: <> The Dental-Optical Plan . We work with a group of your local doctors and dentists and are offering a Dental - Optical Plan that runs approximately $2 a week for an individual and $3 a week for the entire family with no limit to the number of children! . Would you like our office to furnish you with the details? . Our doctors are grouped by AREA CODE and ZIP CODE The company currently only responds to requests by TELEPHONE. For Details call Toll Free 1-800-447-1996 Please Refer to ID Code 900 This message complies with the proposed United States Federal requirements for commercial email plus Washington State Commercial Email Bill. for information see: http://www.senate.gov/~murkowski/commercialemail/ EMailAmend Text.html To be removed mailto:remove at unlimitd.com?subject=remove Sean Davis 790 W.40 Hwy ste.336 Blue Springs MO 64015 1-800-447-1996 From KCzzzzz at aol.com Sat Oct 10 02:42:02 1998 From: KCzzzzz at aol.com (KCzzzzz at aol.com) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 17:42:02 +0800 Subject: please include me Message-ID: <9ab3eae1.361f267e@aol.com> Lets do it all again. From KCzzzzz at aol.com Sat Oct 10 02:42:56 1998 From: KCzzzzz at aol.com (KCzzzzz at aol.com) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 17:42:56 +0800 Subject: ok Message-ID: <88d2833a.361f26b9@aol.com> list From nobody at replay.com Sat Oct 10 03:58:20 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 18:58:20 +0800 Subject: No Subject In-Reply-To: <199810100855.FAA30538@privacy.nb.ca> Message-ID: <199810101045.MAA21635@replay.com> > HyperReal-Anon wrote: > > > > >HOW MUCH CODE DID 'CYPHERPUNK' TIM MAY EVER WRITE? I suppose the cyphernomicon doesn't count as furthering the cause to you? Anon From regnic902c at gte.net Sat Oct 10 23:13:08 1998 From: regnic902c at gte.net (regnic902c at gte.net) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 23:13:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: A BANNER PROGRAM PAYING $50 A SIGNUP Message-ID: $50 PER SIGNUP - NO KIDDING! PAID WEEKLY IF YOU WISH! This banner program should be at the top of your links page for a couple of real important reasons that will make perfect sense! 1. It doesn't compete with your site - or anyone's! 2. It pays $50 for your signups, and $10 for each one that anyone you refer signs up! 3. It gives them something they need right now! Publicize the program to other webmasters and make $10 override on all their signups! We will send your payments weekly anywhere in the world . . . and the payments are guaranteed! Want to find out more? First, write down your referral code 000034 (that's 4 zeros and 34) Then, click on the link below http://206.132.179.167/kesef/ Thanks for your time! Be one of the first on this new program -- make your own $$$ and all the overrides! From nobody at privacy.nb.ca Sat Oct 10 08:27:32 1998 From: nobody at privacy.nb.ca (Joseph 'Anonymous' Howe) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 23:27:32 +0800 Subject: Here we go again... Message-ID: <199810101455.LAA03704@privacy.nb.ca> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 15:14:17 -0800 From: Greg Galbraith Subject: Just in time for Halloween WARNING TO PARENTS: A form of tattoo called "Blue Star" is being sold to school children. It is a small piece of paper containing a blue star. They are the size of a pencil eraser and each star contains traces of Lysergic Acid Deithylamide (LSD). The drug is absorbed through the skin simply by handling the paper. They are also brightly colored paper tattoos resembling postage stamps that have the pictures of the following on them: Superman Mickey Mouse Butterflies Clowns Disney Characters Bart Simpson Each one is wrapped in foil. This is a new way of selling LSD by appealing to young children. These are laced with drugs. If your child gets any of the above, do not handle them. These are known to react quickly and some are laced with strychnine, which may cause irreversible brain damage in some cases. The drug is addictive and, in the quantities contained in the above items, can cause children to become additcts. Please feel free to distribute this article within your community and work place. FROM: J. O'Donnell, Danbury Hospital, Outpatient Chemical Dependency Treatment Service ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Please copy and post! Give to friends. Send copies to schools. This is growing faster than we can train parents and professionals. Many Thanks, Val Val G. Armstrong Assistant to Director Rehabilitation Administration Program University of San Francisco PH: (415) 422-2532 Fax:(415) 422-2551 Internet: armstrongv at usfca.edu From stuffed at stuffed.net Sun Oct 11 01:13:35 1998 From: stuffed at stuffed.net (STUFFED SUN OCT 11) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 01:13:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: EVEN MORE FREE PORN: STUFFED HAS 10 LINKS TO 100S OF FREE PICS, NEW EVERY DAY Message-ID: <19981011071000.1373.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com> + 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS + 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES + AMANDA'S FANTASY + MISSIONARY MADNESS + BABES & BLOWJOBS + GALLERIES OF PORN + CUMSHOT QUEENS + BLOW BABY BLOW + FIRM BOOBS + PORN PRINCE + COLLEGE SEX + SLUTTYONES.COM + BONUS PIC 1 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/12584.htm + BONUS PIC 2 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/18130.htm + BONUS PIC 3 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/2170.htm + BONUS PIC 4 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/32120.htm + BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/22064.htm + MUCH, MUCH MORE! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- If you haven't visited STUFFED in the last few days, you're in for a real treat. It's faster than ever before and now, as a subscriber, you get 35 FREE new pics every day, plus over 100 more at carefully selected FREE sites we link to. This email is never sent unsolicited. Stuffed is the supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full instructions on unsubscribing are in every issue of Eureka! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- From nobody at remailer.ch Sat Oct 10 12:51:16 1998 From: nobody at remailer.ch (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 03:51:16 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <19981010192430.25602.qmail@hades.rpini.com> > >HOW MUCH CODE DID 'CYPHERPUNK' TIM MAY EVER WRITE? > > How much code have you ever written? A DECENT AMOUNT. THE CRYPTO APPS I CREATED ARE SOMEWHAT UNIQUE, SO IF I MENTIONED THEM YOU MIGHT FIGURE OUT WHO I AM. From remailer at hr13.zedz.net Sat Oct 10 13:34:34 1998 From: remailer at hr13.zedz.net (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 04:34:34 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: PS. there is someone on this list who knows who i am. yes there is someone who knows who anon posters are. we fucking hate you and am waiting for you to take the trap and we will reveal your identity scumbag. From nobody at replay.com Sat Oct 10 14:11:47 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 05:11:47 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199810102056.WAA31995@replay.com> >> > >HOW MUCH CODE DID 'CYPHERPUNK' TIM MAY EVER WRITE? > >I suppose the cyphernomicon doesn't count as furthering >the cause to you? ahhh, so when you say "cypherpunks write code" that also means articles and other writings too???? so you can be a cypherpunk by writing a lot of stuff ABOUT cypherpunks code???? but just cause you write the code or text, that's only one part of the equiation, right??? in other words is david chaum a cypherpunk???? From xasper8d at lobo.net Sat Oct 10 14:16:00 1998 From: xasper8d at lobo.net (X) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 05:16:00 +0800 Subject: In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001bdf490$59035320$8d2580d0@xasper8d> I know who anonymous is... didn't you write "Primary Colors?" ~> -----Original Message----- ~> PS. there is someone on this list who knows who ~> i am. yes there is someone who knows who anon ~> posters are. we fucking hate you and am waiting ~> for you to take the trap and we will reveal your ~> identity scumbag. From nobody at replay.com Sat Oct 10 15:22:01 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 06:22:01 +0800 Subject: DESX Message-ID: <199810102206.AAA06060@replay.com> | So what's DESX? DESX is a modification of DES which uses a 64+56+64 bit key, with what is called "pre- and post-whitening". Specifically, break the key into three pieces, 64 bit K1, 56 bit K2, 64 bit K3. Then DESX is defined by: C = K1 xor DES (K2, K3 xor P) where P is plaintext, C is ciphertext, and DES (K, P) is the DES encryption of P under key K. The encryption then has three steps: - XOR the input with K3 - DES encrypt that with K2 - XOR the result with K1 The first and last steps are called "whitening" because by xoring with a random value, any structure is destroyed. White light is a uniform and unstructured mixture of all colors. Whitening has been adopted as a general tool in constructing ciphers these days and many of the AES candidates use it. It makes things more difficult for the cryptanalyst as he won't know exactly what values are being fed into the guts of the cipher. From jamesd at echeque.com Sat Oct 10 16:03:23 1998 From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 07:03:23 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810081606.LAA17694@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199810102245.PAA21305@proxy4.ba.best.com> > > You cannot have monopoly (in the sense of the power to > > extract monopoly profits) except by state intervention as > > has been proven by experience time and time again. At 11:06 AM 10/8/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > Examine history with an unbiased eye. I have provided specific examples from history. You have told us that various undefined markets in unspecified places at unspecified times were monopolized by unspecified big companies. If these monopolies were rampaging all over the place, your really should be able to name them, and show that specific named monopoly companes were able to extract specific identified monopoly profits. > Incorrect. I have listed several examples (eg > meat-processing in the 1920's) where the resultant > involvement of the government came *AFTER* (not before as > you claim) there was evidence of wide spread abuse of the > consumer and the employee of those producters. In what country? Ruritania? What was the name of the evil monopoly that dominated the meat processing industry? What were their excess profits? And if they were making excess profits, what stopped any man and his dog from setting up in business cutting up cattle? (Unless, of course, it was the government that stopped any man from slaughtering cattle.) --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG qszZcMydwBnWQ3Fd1G+pG0KLz7KIkE6RINedm82c 4PzuGOaB00Ogh6kc9Q6PK3bb9CQAITF9Jqzdoy+G7 ----------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state. http://www.jim.com/jamesd/����� James A. Donald From jamesd at echeque.com Sat Oct 10 16:03:35 1998 From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 07:03:35 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) In-Reply-To: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A31@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com> Message-ID: <199810102245.PAA21253@proxy4.ba.best.com> -- On Thu, Oct 08, 1998 at 04:14:32PM -0700, Matthew James Gering wrote: > > The Mafia has had two primary characteristics: a) the > > use of force At 10:24 AM 10/9/98 +0100, Steve Mynott wrote: > wouldn't this characteristic define the mafia as a "state" > to some degree? A state is merely a mafia that has succeeded in crushing its competitors by force. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG PhKk4RhYVNaeZPogdcsq1rhljgRx/8xPW3ERa+RZ 4HqTzfVhadbFtw7OnMn+adlAQibN0JlmTgUmw22Wt ----------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state. http://www.jim.com/jamesd/����� James A. Donald From jamesd at echeque.com Sat Oct 10 16:05:59 1998 From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 07:05:59 +0800 Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd) In-Reply-To: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A33@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com> Message-ID: <199810102245.PAA21230@proxy4.ba.best.com> -- At 02:36 AM 10/9/98 -0700, Matthew James Gering wrote: > Not really, the state holds a monopoly on "legal" force, > whereas the Mafia and other black-market organizations do > not. What is interesting is they use force often because > they cannot use the government legal system to arbitrate > their disputes. It has been a very long time since we had an armed conflict between one major mafia type organization and another in the US. It appears to me that they have a problem because they cannot resolve their disputes in public, thus it is hard to tell the difference between an oppressive mafia organization that mistreats its clients, and a legitimate mafia organization that protects its clients. However the government dispute resolution apparatus does not possess any special wisdom that the mafia dispute resolution apparatus lacks. By and large, mafias seem to be less evil than governments, and perform fewer violent, oppressive, and flagrantly unjust acts than governments, and are less prone to expensive and destructive wars. This probably reflects the fact that such actions by mafia chiefs are far more likely to get the mafia chief killed, than similar acts by governments are likely to get the ruler killed. One might perhaps argue that some notable mafias in the US are worse than the US government, though I have never heard of them asking for fifty percent of someone's income. However clearly no mafia in the US, or indeed anywhere, has ever been as bad as any of the more objectionable governments. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG FwiAHWNbE9PK8jomcmlEZQlBYbPYs5IhxFnAPjN2 4QU3gWdu2/5C3xghqUfLx5inM+SHUn29tmXbz/wWO ----------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state. http://www.jim.com/jamesd/����� James A. Donald From nobody at replay.com Sat Oct 10 17:47:39 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 08:47:39 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199810110030.CAA18407@replay.com> Sunday, October 11, 1998 - 01:11:20 MET It's messages like this which make the cypherpunk mailing list more bearable... NOT :- ) -> Subject: N/A -> Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 22:18:31 +0200 -> From: Anonymous -> To: cypherpunks at cyberpass.net -> PS. there is someone on this list who knows who i am. yes there is someone who knows who anon -> posters are. we fucking hate you and am waiting for you to take the trap and we will reveal your identity scumbag. - Scumbag Interesting terminology... :- ) I got this nifty little slang dictionary which has this word in it... "Dictionary of Contemporary Slang" by Tony Thorne... ISBN 1-85980-003-3 [on the back of the dic] and it's worth 12.99 in British pounds :- ) Published in 1994 Copyright (c) Tony Thorne 1990 The moral right of author has been asserted A CIP entry for this book is available from the British Library Printed in Britain by Clays Ltd, St. Ives plc ISBN 0 7475 1735 5 [on the second page] Comments on back of book: More than 5,000 racy and raffish colloquial expressions - from Britain, America, the Caribbean, and other English-speaking places. 'Fascinating. Certainty a book I shall want to keep on trucking with.' Daily Mail 'Wonderfully informative.' Observer ------------------------------------ Definition of 'fucking': adjective an intensifier used with other adjectives to emphasis. Like "bloody" it is also one of the very few examples of an 'infix' [a word component inserted before the stressed syllable in the middle of a polysyllabic word] in English. e.g. 'Jesus, it's f****** cold in here.' e.g. 'Abso-fucking-lutely.' Definition of 'scumbag': noun, [origin] American a deceptive person. This term of abuse is now widespread and is permitted in the broadcast media, in spite of the fact that its origin, unknown to many of its users, is as an obscene phemism for condom, 'scum' being an obsolescent American term for semen. The word was adopted by British speakers around 1985. e.g.. 'Even scumbags have right here in the USA.' [Red Heat, US film 1988] Oo and a bottle of rum, Anonymous PS: If I remember correctly, the main actors in Red Head were James Belushi, and Arnold Swatznager [something like that].... From nobody at replay.com Sat Oct 10 17:47:43 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 08:47:43 +0800 Subject: none In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199810110030.CAA18370@replay.com> > PS. there is someone on this list who knows who i am. > yes there is someone who knows who anon posters are. Damn straight! There's anon over there behind the larch, trying not to be seen. Or do you mean anon in the filing cabinet (she's trying not to be seen, either). -- KillTheBlacksMonger From fod at brd.ie Sat Oct 10 18:27:43 1998 From: fod at brd.ie (Frank O'Dwyer) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 09:27:43 +0800 Subject: "TCQ" (request for comments) Message-ID: <36200581.C18BC73C@brd.ie> Some people asked for more detail on the project I am working on, so I have begun a quick write-up about it. A draft version is at the URL below. This is just a sketch, and the document is fairly scrappy still, but I thought it would be worth asking for comments at this stage anyway. So, flame away. http://www.brd.ie/papers/tcq.pdf (Yes, it's an acrobat doc. Apologies for the somewhat awkward format here.) Cheers, Frank O'Dwyer. From ian at deepwell.com Sat Oct 10 18:45:40 1998 From: ian at deepwell.com (Ian Briggs) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 09:45:40 +0800 Subject: Here we go again... In-Reply-To: <199810101455.LAA03704@privacy.nb.ca> Message-ID: <4.1.19981010181458.016c9080@deepwell.com> Bullshit 5 yard penalty. >> form of tattoo called "Blue Star" is being sold to school children. Search for "Urban Myth Blue Star" or http://www.lycaeum.org/drugs/synthetics/lsd/FAQ-LSD-Tattoo.html >>Some are laced with strychnine http://www.lycaeum.org/drugs/synthetics/lsd/strychnine_fla.html http://www.lycaeum.org/drugs/synthetics/lsd/strychnine.html Luv ian Welcome to 1984 as with all goverment projects, its a bit late and slightly overbudget -IB. From die at die.com Sat Oct 10 19:10:00 1998 From: die at die.com (Dave Emery) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 10:10:00 +0800 Subject: DESX In-Reply-To: <199810102206.AAA06060@replay.com> Message-ID: <19981010215151.A628@die.com> On Sun, Oct 11, 1998 at 12:06:14AM +0200, Anonymous wrote: > | So what's DESX? > > DESX is a modification of DES which uses a 64+56+64 bit key, with > what is called "pre- and post-whitening". Specifically, break the key > into three pieces, 64 bit K1, 56 bit K2, 64 bit K3. Then DESX is > defined by: > > C = K1 xor DES (K2, K3 xor P) > > where P is plaintext, C is ciphertext, and DES (K, P) is the DES > encryption of P under key K. > > The encryption then has three steps: > > - XOR the input with K3 > - DES encrypt that with K2 > - XOR the result with K1 > > The first and last steps are called "whitening" because by xoring with > a random value, any structure is destroyed. White light is a uniform > and unstructured mixture of all colors. > Anybody have any estimate as to how much actual strength this adds to DES ? How would one break it in a practical cracker machine ? -- Dave Emery N1PRE, die at die.com DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2 5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18 From nobody at replay.com Sat Oct 10 19:54:13 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 10:54:13 +0800 Subject: TCQ ascii version Message-ID: <199810110234.EAA29043@replay.com> (c) 1998 Frank O'Dwyer. Verbatim copying and redistribution in any medium is permitted provided this copyright notice is preserved on all copies. TCQ ("They Seek You") Mass-market Strong Anonymity Frank O'Dwyer fod at brd.ie Introduction This document sketches the design goals and features of "TCQ", a work in progress with the aim of providing a mix of features offered by ICQ, IRC and email -- but using cryptography to provide strong anonymity and privacy. As the name implies, TCQ "(They Seek You") is similar in purpose to ICQ ("I Seek You"), but with a very different emphasis. TCQ is motivated by the recognition that people being sought do not always wish to be found, and that those doing the seeking (people, organisations, or governments) can be threatening. TCQ is also motivated by a desire to make the use of strong anonymity easier and much more common, riding the current wave of popularity of "anonymous" services like IRC, ICQ and webmail. Status TCQ is in the early stages of being designed and prototyped; this early draft is being made available now to solicit comments (and assistance) from anyone with an interest in this project. Some initial design decisions and the rationale for them are also documented here. It is planned to make TCQ freely available in source and binary form, under a liberal licence (such as MozPL, or a BSD-style licence). If you can contribute ideas, or code on those terms, you are welcome to. Background Basic political background to this, intended for general consumption (including people who may not be aware of what GAK is, etc.). This is just a sketch. - FOD Anonymous communication is hugely popular. Vast numbers of non-technical people use services such as ICQ (www.mirabilis.com) and Hotmail (www.hotmail.com) because they want to communicate privately and anonymously. However, these systems only offer a weak form of privacy and anonymity. They use unencrypted links (which can easily be tapped), unencrypted messages on centralised servers (which can easily be commandeered or shut down) and well known sites (to which access can easily be blocked). They also use communication links that can be traced to individuals, albeit requiring some effort. Systems which offer much better privacy and anonymity are available (for example PGP, Cypherpunks remailers), but relatively few people use those systems. This is partly because relatively few people know about them, but mainly because they are difficult to use. There is a lot of additional theory on strongly anonymous and strongly private communications [ref Cypherpunks literature here], but few implementations of any sort and no mass-market implementations. (that I am aware of - FOD). In the case of strong anonymity, most services thus far have been based on email. Email has a strong culture of being suspicious of "fake names", and this is another factor in the lack of mainstream take-up of strong anonymity. However, with services such as IRC and ICQ, "fake names" are the norm -- these cultures are now becoming mainstream and they may be more receptive to strong anonymity. At the same time, an individual's ability to communicate with true privacy and anonymity is under threat from various quarters, including for example: o Government Access to Keys. Proposals designed to allow governmental access to private communications, (including encrypted private communications between individuals) have been circulating for some time in many jurisdictions including the United States and Europe. These proposals are typically sold on the back of "hard cases", such as a claimed need for law enforcement to be able to intercept the communications of paedophiles and terrorists. o Physical border inspections. Users who cross borders may be subject to customs inspection of any computer equipment they may be carrying; for example, if their laptops contain (or appear to contain) encrypted information, they may be required to provide the key(s). On the other hand, if their information is not encrypted, then users' confidential information (private diaries, letters, business plans) is exposed. There are rumours that some countries (such as the UK) already perform such inspections. o Centralised Services. There is a growing trend to move security-critical services off users' own PCs and onto the web. Prime examples include online backup and webmail. Even non-technical people often instinctively react to this by becoming "anonymous" (e.g. lying about their names and location). However, this is still a very hospitable climate for attack by governments and other parties, and in any case, the level of anonymity is weak. Also, in so far as such services benefit privacy/anonymity (e.g. webmail), they are easily monitored, blocked, or shut down. o Strongly Identifying Protocols. Commercial security products, some of which apparently offer strong encryption and privacy, are almost universally based upon "X.509 certificates" and trusted third parties known as "Certification Authorities" (CAs). This trend is worrying for a number of reasons: o X.509 is typically used as a strongly identifying protocol, and the analogy is often made between X.509 certificates and a driving licence or passport. Although X.509 can facilitate private communications, it effectively prevents anonymous private communications since by design it requires you to show your "passport" to strangers. (X.509 does not have to be used this way, but people are often encouraged to use it that way.) o Use of X.509, and in particular establishment of public CAs, is likely to be heavily regulated. Proposals have been made to "licence" CAs, for example. Regulated management of individuals' encryption keys is not a healthy development for online privacy. o Extensions for governmental access to keys have been made to X.509, and X.509 is at the heart of some governmental strategies to mandate key access. o If Public CAs take off then they will turn out to be single points of failure and an extremely attractive attack target. Anyone (individual, corporation or government) who can compromise a public CA is in an excellent position to attack the communications of all users served by that CA. o Logical border inspections. Communications that cross cyberspace borders may be subject to traffic monitoring and/or filtering. This might occur at corporate firewalls or at well defined national "entry points" and "exit points". o Non-repudiation. Some systems for private communications have as a side effect that it is difficult for a person to plausibly deny sending or receiving a particular message. This is sometimes welcome, but it can be a problem if the person thinks he or she is anonymous. For example, a warm body might be linked to a message just by being found in physical possession of related cryptographic keys. Design goals These goals are listed to give an idea of the features TCQ is intended to provide. It is likely that TCQ will meet these goals only in a piecemeal fashion as it evolves, doing the easy bits first and leaving the hard bits till later. We will see. -FOD 1. Casual Anonymity. TCQ should offer a messaging service based on disposable cryptographic identities. This level of anonymity is weak, but it is easiest to implement and it is a start. 2. Relative Anonymity. It can be useful to have multiple identities (or "nyms") and for some identities to be less anonymous than others. A nym might be anonymous, identified to a friend, identified to a select group, or generally identified to everyone. For example, this allows for applications where the sender is anonymous but the receiver is not. TCQ should allow people to selectively reveal their identities (including partial information about themselves) while remaining fully anonymous to others. TCQ should also allow multiple identities to be maintained, with varying degrees of anonymity, and allow these identities to be kept at arm's length from each other. Lastly, it should be possible for a TCQ sender to selectively reveal "also known as" relationships between one nym and another. (lots of requirements here -- might be worth splitting this up). 3. Strong Anonymity. TCQ should be extensible to use, or natively offer, stronger anonymity services (mixes, remailer-type functionality, etc.). 4. Privacy. It should not be possible for unintended recipients to read TCQ messages (but see the caveats below). 5. Integrity. It should not be possible for a third party to tamper with TCQ messages. (again see the caveats below.) 6. Repudiability. It should be possible to plausibly deny having sent a TCQ message, or at least know when this will not be the case. 7. Ease of use. o TCQ should be easy to install and use for average users of ICQ, webmail and IRC, and should not require special cryptographic expertise. o TCQ should also be easy to use for advanced users, and allow them to know what is going on "under the hood". o It should be easy for average users to become advanced users, and they should be guided to documentation of issues that affect their privacy. o It should be easy for developers to extend TCQ without being intimately acquainted with all of its workings (ideally, it should offer well-defined extension points wherever possible). 8. Decentralisation. TCQ should not depend upon well-known centralised servers, since they are easily monitored and shut down. (This is unfortunate, since many ICQ-style features are very difficult to provide without central servers; TCQ may have to piggyback on existing public resources such as IRC and webmail to provide these.) 9. No Special Resources. TCQ should require only resources that are available to the average dial-up ISP user. (Users should not be required to set up a server on the Internet for example, though they should be able to use any public resources that exist, and private resources if they have them.) 10. Secure Message Store. TCQ should provide encrypted and tamperproof storage for received messages, and should provide a feature to securely erase messages from this store. (It is arguable whether "securely erase" is always useful -- an attacker will usually be able to record encrypted messages in transit anyhow. However there may be draft messages in the store that were never sent anywhere.) 11. Mobility. TCQ users will be typical dial-up users. They will not necessarily have fixed or easily discovered IP addresses. They may also change ISPs, move from location to location, or switch computers. While travelling they may cross borders and potentially they will be subject to inspections of their computing equipment. 12. Channel Independence. It should be possible to extend TCQ (with code) so that TCQ messages can be sent over whatever channels and drop-points are available (e.g. direct connections, email, webmail, IRC, ICQ, ftp sites, newsgroups, mailing lists, remailers, eternity services, etc.). Initially it should be possible to use at least IRC, email and webmail, since these are easiest to implement, most people have easy access to these, and IRC and webmail are relatively anonymous to begin with. (The expectation of anonymity is also highest on these services.) After that, use (and ultimately provision) of anonymous remailer style services is the natural next step. 13. Programmatic Access. It should be possible for programs (robots) to send messages via TCQ, and to automatically handle received messages. Command line and API access, coupled with some form of scriptability and the ability to call out to scripts to handle, pre-process or send messages is desirable for this. 14. Group communication. Programs such as IRC and ICQ offer the ability to have N-way chats. If it is to attract users of these programs, TCQ needs to offer that too. (This is difficult to do generically and securely, however.) 15. File Transfer. Messages should not be restricted to text messages, and messages should not be limited in size. 16. Stealth, firewall negotiation. TCQ should be able to avail of stealthy channels, and should not make its protocols easy to firewall. Protocols that are easy to firewall are usually easy to filter and monitor, and always easy to shut down. 17. Persistent pseudonyms, friend location. With IRC and ICQ, it is straightforward to determine if a friend is online and communicate with them again (although this is not done securely). Although it has no central server, TCQ should allow this in a similarly straightforward fashion, otherwise few will use it. 18. Key Management Independence. TCQ should not presuppose much more than the availability of a key pair per pseudonym. This allows different key management systems to be used, including web-of-trust, reputation capital systems, manual key exchange etc. 19. No patent problems. TCQ should not require the use of patented techniques or patented algorithms such as RSA and IDEA, as this would affect its use in some countries. 20. Sugar. Popular chat clients (e.g. Mirc, Vplaces) provide various "nice to have" features such as the ability to play sound files during conversations and the ability to have avatars (graphical representations of participants). TCQ should provide similar features. Anonymity and Privacy Caveats This is just an attempt on my part to work out what is and is not achievable in terms of privacy and integrity when purely anonymous participants are involved and relationships are formed wholly online (i.e. no out-of-band contact or face-to-face meetings). I just wrote it down here to clarify my own thinking and to capture it somewhere. Comments on this reasoning are very welcome. - FOD. Anonymous Receivers When talking to an anonymous receiver, privacy of communications does not apply in the usual sense, regardless of how much encryption is present. This is because an anonymous receiver could be anyone (by definition). In such a scenario, the sender should assume the worst, namely that the receiver is not someone the sender wishes to communicate confidential information to. For example, the receiver could be some entity out to determine the sender's identity or exact location. In addition, the receiver could pass the sender's messages on to others. Thus, not only could you be talking to anyone, you could be talking to everyone. In a group where all relationships are anonymous and formed wholly online, no amount of strong cryptography or "reputation capital" changes this (see Man in the middle attacks below). So why bother encrypting to an anonymous receiver? The only reason seems to be that in an anonymous online relationship, privacy comes from sender anonymity and sender anonymity might fail. If it does, then message encryption is a second line of defence against eavesdroppers but only if the anonymous receiver is trustworthy after all. There seem to be plenty of threat models in which encryption to anonymous receivers is worthless. An example may clarify this: Nym1 wishes to admit some embarrassing but non-identifying fact about themselves to Nym2. The reason Nym1 is willing to make the admission is because Nym1 believes itself to be speaking anonymously, not because it believes it is speaking privately. After all, Nym2 could be anyone/everyone. However, if Nym1's anonymity fails somehow, then encrypting to Nym2 can be beneficial if there is some significant chance that Nym2 is not revealing Nym1's messages, and Nym2 does not know Nym1 or is otherwise not an adversary of Nym1. Similarly, if there is a significant chance that Nym2 does know Nym1, or is an adversary, then encryption to Nym2 is pointless. In both cases, encryption is secondary and anonymity is the point. Anonymous Senders The flip side of the above, from the receiver perspective, is that an anonymous sender could be anyone. The receiver cannot assume that it is the only person receiving the sender's messages, even if they are encrypted. The sender could be broadcasting them. Nor can the receiver assume that the messages are in any sense "from" any particular sender, even if integrity protection is applied. They could be from anyone. It seems at first sight that given a sequence of messages from the same anonymous sender (same key pair) then each message is from the same individual, and that reputations can be built based on that fact. In the wholly-online/wholly-anonymous case, this is not quite true however (see below). Man in the middle attacks In a group based on public keys where all relationships are anonymous and formed wholly online, all communications within the group are always subject to (active) man-in-the-middle attacks. There is a possible defence against this using scale and publicity, but approaches such as web-of-trust and reputation capital do not work for this. This is how it seems to me, anyway, assuming a public key system is used, and I try to prove it below -- are there techniques other than public key techniques that do any better? - FOD This can be proved by informal induction; the first relationship (between Alice and Bob) is necessarily formed by exchange of naked public keys. No third party can vouch for the keys; there is no third party. No reputation capital can attach to the keys; Alice and Bob have just met for the first time. Since the public keys are naked, an active attacker can substitute its own keys for those of Alice and Bob during the key exchange. Thereafter the active attacker can eavesdrop on the conversation between Alice and Bob, and can also inject, delete, reorder, delay or modify messages at any time. As further participants join the population, any new relationships formed can be similarly attacked. Alice and Bob cannot reliably certify any new participants since they can both be impersonated, and in any case, by definition they do not know any new anonymous participants and can certify nothing about them. For the same reason, new participants cannot certify Alice and Bob either. Therefore, in principle at least, the attacker can impersonate or eavesdrop on any member of the population, no matter how large the population grows and no matter how many messages are exchanged. Such an elaborate spoof is arguably not feasible once some size of population is reached, but this is not terrifically comforting. (Publicity on out-of-band channels (e.g. face-to-face meetings) could be used to make these systems more reliable, but these are excluded by construction -- relationships are formed wholly online). Reputation capital does not help, since it does not matter how much capital Alice accrues if she can be impersonated. The attacker can damage or abuse Alice's reputation at any time, for example by injecting or modifying a message and making it appear to come from Alice. What reputation capital can do, however, is eventually defeat an attacker who for some reason is only able to attack some of Alice's exchanges. In that case, Alice will appear to have two public keys, one real and one fake (supplied by the attacker). It is then up to Alice to boost the reputation of the real key and damage that of the fake (assuming she gets to know of it). Initial Design Decisions This is still very incomplete, just a few notes for now - FOD Programming Language, Platform o TCQ will be implemented in Java/Swing, targeting Java 1.1/1.2 and Windows initially. Rationale: Java code is mobile and can be digitally signed, which leaves room for the entire TCQ program and its data to be dumped to cyberspace while travelling, and picked up securely upon arrival (even on a different computer). Thus a mobile TCQ user could cross borders with nothing more than a signature verification key and a memorised passphrase, and still restore a secure environment in the new location. Java is also cross-platform, so although most people use Windows a relatively easy port to other platforms (e.g., Macintosh, UNIX) should be possible, and developers using other platforms can provide extensions without much in the way of special tools. It is possible to call out to scripts from Java, and Java can be driven by script (e.g. TCL script, or E (?)). Java also has good support for cryptography, and an internationally available crypto library (Cryptix). Some problems with Java are that certain aspects of it are difficult to secure, and Java GUIs are frustrating to port in practice. Secure random number generation and protection of sensitive information such as keys are hard problems in Java. However, these problems are not significantly easier in other languages, and the GUI port is much more difficult. If necessary native code could be used to provide any features Java can't handle. Generic Delivery Channels o TCQ should presuppose only generic delivery channels for messages, allowing new delivery channels to be added easily. Rationale: To be usable over as many concrete delivery channels as possible (IRC, sockets, webmail, ftp sites, remailers, etc. -- see above), TCQ should not assume too much about the channel. In particular this means that security features should be applied to the messages themselves, not the channels. If channels can be assumed insecure, then people adding code for new delivery channels do not need to implement any security features unless it is to strengthen anonymity. Some properties that TCQ will need to know about each channel type are: o Whether it is offline or online. That is, with some channels the other party will be present at that moment and the communication can be real-time. This is important mainly because on an online channel an ephemeral key exchange can take place in order to establish perfect forward secrecy for that particular conversation. A second set of temporary keys can also be established while online, for later use in offline communications. For communication that takes place entirely offline, one-sided ephemeral key exchanges could be used as a form of key change (this would allow the related nym to persist across key changes and also improve forward secrecy.) Whether a channel is on or offline can be modelled as just binary (on/offline) or alternatively as some estimate of the channel lag. o Its anonymity characteristics. Some channel types will be more identifying than others. For example, a direct socket channel is relatively traceable, whereas a channel through a remailer-type network is much harder to trace. Channels via drop-points such as public news groups are somewhere in the middle, but nearer the "traceable" end of the spectrum. Message Format o TCQ messages will consist of an XML header and a MIME-typed content. Rationale: (This is all based on more of a hunch than a firm conviction.) XML is readable, easy to extend and easy to process with scripting languages. It's a nice framework for prototyping protocols, and unrecognised detail can easily be skipped. There are also canonical formats for XML, which lend themselves to hashing, digital signature, etc. It's good for assertions (certificates, RDF possibilities, W3C digsig?) too. There's also a pretty simple mapping from protocols such as SPKI and SDSI to XML, if necessary. MIME is a well-established standard for messaging and content identification, and the Java Activation Framework uses it for drag-and-drop, etc. Something like S/MIME or PGP/MIME could be used instead of XML+MIME, but these do not work so well in the online case and S/MIME uses X.509. In any case, these formats can still be used if desired, since they can be embedded as MIME-types in the body of a TCQ message. Generic "Friend Location" o TCQ should presuppose only generic methods of locating friends. Rationale: locating friends (i.e. finding if they are online, determining their current IP address or preferred drop-point) is difficult to do without a central server network. One approach is to piggyback on some server network that already exists, such as an IRC or ICQ network, or netphone directories. For example if two people log onto an IRC network using one of a set of prearranged handles, they can readily determine each other's online status and IP address. Another approach is to post a current IP address in a prearranged location, such as a web or FTP site. There are also some proposals for "dynamic DNS" which could be useful, since this is a general problem for mobile IP. Yet another approach is for the requirement to have no servers to be relaxed to the extent of allowing "nym servers" to be used just for the purposes of resolving previously exchanged nonces to current IP addresses, current drop-points, etc. Such servers could also double as drop-points themselves or as the basis of a remailer network, if there were enough of them. A variation on the last approach is to have sets of users collaborating to provide location services and message forwarding services for one another. This is probably the most interesting approach, but it is also the most difficult, it is vulnerable to disruption, and firewalls are a problem. By using a generic approach, simple initial solutions can be replaced with other solutions later. From bmm at minder.net Sat Oct 10 20:25:40 1998 From: bmm at minder.net (BMM) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 11:25:40 +0800 Subject: IP address change Message-ID: Within the next 24 hours, minder.net will be moving to a new block of IP's. Until DNS catches up with the new addresses, mail to cypherpunks at minder.net may become delayed or undeliverable for a short time. Thanks -Brian From nobody at privacy.nb.ca Sat Oct 10 22:15:10 1998 From: nobody at privacy.nb.ca (Joseph 'Anonymous' Howe) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 13:15:10 +0800 Subject: Bloodgate Message-ID: <199810110455.BAA17730@privacy.nb.ca> Vince Foster suicide linked to Arkansas tainted plasma sales Mark Kennedy The Ottawa Citizen The controversy over how a U.S. firm collected tainted blood from Arkansas prison inmates and shipped it to Canada has spread to Vince Foster -- U.S. President Bill Clinton's personal confidant who committed suicide in 1993. Mr. Foster, a boyhood friend of Mr. Clinton's, was one of the president's most trusted advisers. As a corporate lawyer in Arkansas, he worked in the same law office as Hillary Rodham Clinton and became a close colleague of hers. When Mr. Clinton left Arkansas for the White House in early 1993, he called on Mr. Foster -- known as an earnest individual with high ethical standards -- to join him as deputy White House counsel. Mr. Foster obliged, also remaining the Clintons' personal lawyer. Now, five years after his mysterious death, two developments have prompted questions about Mr. Foster's knowledge of the U.S. company's prison-blood collection scheme: - There are signs that Mr. Foster tried to protect the company called Health Management Associates (HMA) more than a decade ago in a lawsuit. - And a major U.S. daily newspaper recently reported that Mr. Foster may have been worried about the tainted-blood scandal, which was just emerging as a contentious issue in Canada, when he killed himself in July 1993. Mr. Clinton was governor of Arkansas when the Canadian blood supply was contaminated in the early and mid-1980s. He was familiar with the operations of the now-defunct HMA, the Arkansas firm given a contract by Mr. Clinton's state administration to provide medical care to prisoners. In the process, HMA was also permitted by the state to collect prisoners' blood and sell it elsewhere. HMA's president in the mid-1980s, Leonard Dunn, was a friend of Mr. Clinton's and a political ally. Later, Mr. Dunn was a Clinton appointee to the Arkansas Industrial Development Commission and he was among the senior members of Mr. Clinton's 1990 gubernatorial re-election team. The contaminated prisoners' plasma -- used to create special blood products for hemophiliacs -- is believed to have been infected with HIV, the virus that causes AIDS. As well, it's likely the plasma was contaminated with hepatitis C. Any information linking Mr. Foster to HMA and its blood program is bound to raise more questions about how much Mr. Clinton knew. Michael Galster, a medical practitioner who did contract work for the prison system, has revealed to the Citizen that Mr. Foster once approached him in the mid 1980s to ask for a favour. At the time, Mr. Clinton's administration and HMA were facing a $12-million lawsuit from a prisoner whose infected leg had been amputated at the hip in 1982. The inmate was claiming that poor medical care by an HMA doctor -- who had been working in the prison despite being denied a permanent licence to practice by the state medical board -- had resulted in the needless amputation. Mr. Galster, an expert in prosthetics, says HMA's medical director had asked him to build a special artificial leg for the prisoner in the hope that it would lead to an out-of-court settlement. Mr. Galster refused to get involved, and was visited several weeks later at his office by Mr. Foster, who appealed again for his assistance. "The purpose of his being there was to convince me to take this, smooth it over and everybody would be happy," says Mr. Galster, who has written a fictionalized account of the prison-blood collection saga, called Blood Trail. "I refused him. He said, 'I understand your predicament, but this could make it difficult for you to get a future state contract.' "If it's like the past state contracts I've had, I don't need any," Mr. Galster says he replied. "He (Foster) kind of laughed and said 'OK, I appreciate your time.' " It was the only time the two met, but Mr. Galster now says he believes Mr. Foster was trying to protect both Mr. Clinton and HMA from public embarrassment. The questions surrounding Mr. Foster became even more intriguing when, several days ago, the New York Post published an article entitled "The tainted blood mystery" by one of its columnists, Maggie Gallagher. She reported on how the Citizen had broken a lengthy story in mid-September about the Arkansas prison-blood scheme. Most significantly, Ms. Gallagher wrote that the story suddenly cast new meaning upon "a strange little memory fragment" that had been "meaningless in itself." Citing a source who asked not to be identified, Ms. Gallagher reported that a day or two after Mr. Foster died on July 20, 1993, someone called a little-known phone number at the White House counsel's office where Mr. Foster had worked. "The man said he had some information that might be important," wrote Ms. Gallagher. "Something had upset Vince Foster greatly just days before he died. Something about 'tainted blood' that both Vince Foster and President Clinton knew about, this man said." Mr. Foster's mysterious death spawned a political controversy from the moment that police, responding to an anonymous 911 caller, found his body in a national park in Washington, D.C. Police concluded that Mr. Foster had stood there coatless in the late-afternoon heat, inserted the muzzle of an antique Colt 38. revolver into his mouth and pulled the trigger. Immediately, conspiracy theorists began spreading rumours that Mr. Foster had been murdered. But independent counsel Robert Fiske (a special prosecutor who examined the Whitewater scandal before being replaced by Kenneth Starr) conducted his own review and agreed with police that it was suicide. It was believed that Mr. Foster had been suffering from depression and was especially perturbed by a brewing scandal in which he was embroiled. In the so-called Travelgate fiasco, Clinton aides had fired several veteran White House travel-office employees as part of an alleged attempt to give the lucrative travel business to Arkansas cronies. However, Ms. Gallagher's column has raised questions over whether Mr. Foster was distressed about something he knew regarding tainted blood, and whether this anxiety contributed to his suicide. In Canada, the summer of 1993 was a critical period. A Commons committee, which had conducted a brief review of the tainted blood scandal, had just released its report in May. Its first recommendation called for a major "public inquiry" to conduct a "full examination of the events of the 1980s" when the Canadian blood supply became contaminated with AIDS. Indeed, on Sept. 16 -- eight weeks after Foster's death -- the federal government announced the public inquiry, to be headed by Justice Horace Krever. During the course of his work, Justice Krever unearthed the Arkansas prison-blood collection scheme and wrote about it in his final report last year. However, no mention was made of Mr. Clinton until last month's story in the Citizen, which drew on documents obtained from Arkansas State Police files. From nobody at base.xs4all.nl Sat Oct 10 22:46:28 1998 From: nobody at base.xs4all.nl (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 13:46:28 +0800 Subject: A Scud in California! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >>>>> William Knowles writes: >> From another one of the several lists I'm on, I figured someone > might know who the new pseudo-proud owner of a fully-operational > SS-1C Scud missle *WITH* moblie launcher is... No shit, Batman -- especially seeing as TCM already discussed it on this list over a week ago... -- ScudMonger From vznuri at netcom.com Sat Oct 10 22:55:52 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 13:55:52 +0800 Subject: IP: A Poll / A Thousand Lies (satire) Message-ID: <199810110537.WAA18773@netcom13.netcom.com> From: "Tom Simmons" Subject: IP: A Poll / A Thousand Lies (satire) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 11:48:22 -0700 To: "Ignition Point" Editor, I took my own cross-sectional, wholly "scientific" poll on Clinton's impeachment/resignation. In order to be truly "scientific", I followed these rules: 1) Choose a densely populated area of a major city in order to get a poll result that is not one-sided. 2) There are 25 known minority cultures in the U.S., including, in "random" order, but not limited to Indian, African, Mexican, Oriental, Caucasian, gray wolf, spotted owl, and grizzly bear. In order to ensure that minorities are not treated as minorities, enforce strict parameters of 96 percent combined minority and 4 percent Caucasian. 3) Eliminate the following from the poll to preclude prejudice: a.) anyone who did not vote for Clinton. It would not be fair to include those who are obviously biased already. b.) anyone who thinks a Newt Gingrich is a slimy lizard. c.) anyone who doesn't think Newt Gingrich is a slimy lizard. d.) all who believe there is such a thing as "sin". e.) all who have ever used or heard the phrase " moral authority ". f.) anyone who believes that a document as old as the Constitution should matter, at this point. g.) anyone who believes someone with the nickname Slick Willy, caught in a thousand lies, might not be telling the truth now. h.) anyone who has ever questioned the actions of the government and is still living or is not imprisoned. Using these guidelines as promoted by the United Pollsters / Young Urban Research Specialists, commonly known as UPYURS, the results were astoundingly accurate. When asked if Clinton is doing a good job, 7335 percent answered "yes", although when asked to be more specific, 8223 percent hadn't the foggiest idea what his job duties are. As to whether he should resign, 14243 percent answered " no ". A breakdown analysis revealed that, among those not eliminated by the above fairness rules, 62,786,091 work for the Clinton administration, 24,892,456 cannot speak English, 12,873,612 bear fur, and there was one token conservative. In a completely unrelated question, the same broadband group was asked whether Hitler should be posthumously awarded the Nobel Peace Prize...... Tom Simmons ***************************************************************** ***** The most formidable weapon against oppression and tyranny is not bullets, for their use is as a last resort, nor hiding in the mountains, for there is no safe haven from tyranny, nor foolish martyrdom for freedom's sake. It is an informed and involved citizenry. This IS our only hope.Get involved. Tom Simmons ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Sat Oct 10 23:03:29 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 14:03:29 +0800 Subject: IP: Different Approaches to Privacy Issue: OECD Message-ID: <199810110537.WAA18794@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Different Approaches to Privacy Issue: OECD Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 16:28:03 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com Source: USIA http://www.usia.gov/current/news/latest/98100904.clt.html?/products/washfile /newsitem.shtml 09 October 1998 OECD CONFERENCE ACCEPTS DIFFERENT APPROACHES TO PRIVACY ISSUE (Resolved authentication issue on electronic signatures) (400) By Bruce Odessey USIA Staff Correspondent Ottawa -- A conference of 29 industrialized countries for promoting electronic commerce has resolved a controversy between the United States and the European over Internet privacy by accepting both points of view. The United States contended industry should be left to manage the problem by itself, but the European Union had demanded a government regulatory approach. "The adversity of views can produce compatible solutions," said John Manley, Canadian minister of industry, who presided over the October 7-9 conference of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. The language approved by the OECD said the governments "encourage the adoption of privacy policies, whether implemented by legal, self-regulatory, administrative or technological means." In a statement issued in Washington U.S. Commerce Secretary William Daley praised the conference work. "Our self-regulatory approach can co-exist with approaches taken by other governments so long as we focus on our common objective -- effective privacy protection," Daley said. Again, on the issue of authenticating e-commerce signatures and enforcing Internet contracts, the OECD was comfortable with different approaches. The governments declared they would "take a non-discriminatory approach to electronic authentication from other countries." The three-day conference held in Ottawa, Canada, was the first one held by the OECD to include representatives from business, labor and consumer groups as well as non-member governments. Business representatives expressed satisfaction with the outcome, but representatives of consumer groups were skeptical or hostile. The OECD staff is required to complete draft guidelines in 1999 on consumer protection. The OECD emphasized development "of effective market driven self-regulatory mechanisms that include input from consumer representatives." But consumer advocates insisted that only government-to-government agreements can protect consumer interests when shoddy goods are ordered over the Internet and delivered across national borders. The conference also took some crucial decisions on taxation. Notably the governments agreed to apply existing taxes to electronic commerce and not to develop new taxes. They also agreed to impose taxes at the place of consumption and not at the place of production and to work out problems in defining the place of consumption. OECD Director-General Donald Johnston said he expected some sort of follow up meeting at the working level and not at the ministerial level within a year. ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Sat Oct 10 23:08:32 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 14:08:32 +0800 Subject: IP: Congress Poised To Approve Digital Copyright Law Message-ID: <199810110537.WAA18819@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Congress Poised To Approve Digital Copyright Law Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 18:41:50 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com Source: Fox News - Reuters Congress Poised To Approve Digital Copyright Law 3.08 p.m. ET (1909 GMT) October 9, 1998 WASHINGTON � Congress was expected to complete work later Friday on legislation to update copyright law for the digital age, after removing a controversial provision granting new rights to databases. The bill, which the Senate approved Thursday and the House will consider Friday, implements provisions of two international treaties adopted by the World Intellectual Property Organization in 1996. Software makers, movie studios, book publishers and other creators of copyrighted works have pushed hard for the legislation. They feared that as their products increasingly became available on the Internet in digital form, pirates and criminals would be able easily to make and sell illegal copies. The legislation creates criminal penalties for anyone who disables high-tech, anti-piracy protections, such as encryption, used to block illegal copying. The bill forbids the manufacture, import, sale or distribution of devices or services used for circumvention, as well. "This was a huge win for us,'' said Richard Taylor, spokesman for the Motion Picture Association of America. The movie industry will depend heavily on anti-piracy technology for movies distributed in all manner of formats, he said. A variety of exceptions were also included at the request of libraries, scientists and universities as well as some manufacturers of consumer electronic devices. They feared the law would prevent some kinds of research and would unfairly limit "fair use,'' the central principle of existing copyright law allowing copies to be made for educational and other noncommercial purposes. The exceptions include allowing circumvention if done for computer security testing, encryption research or limited kinds of computer software development. Internet surfers could also circumvent in limited ways to protect their privacy and parents could circumvent to monitor their children's travels through cyberspace. "What we've really been fighting about for the last few months was the exceptions,'' said Jonathan Band, a lawyer at Morrison & Foerster who worked with groups seeking to protect fair use. Band criticized Congress for criminalizing devices instead of actions only and for ignoring a person's motives for circumventing. "Given that Congress chose to go about it entirely the wrong way, it ended up pretty well,'' he said. In addition, at the urging of Band's group and others, the anti-circumvention laws will not go into effect for two years, until the Librarian of Congress, with advice from the Commerce Department, decides whether additional exceptions need to be made. Such exceptions would be reconsidered in a recurring process every three years, at which time new exceptions could also be created. The bill also defined broad freedom from liability for online and Internet service providers, like America Online , which otherwise might have been held financially liable for copyright infringement by one of their millions of customers. Under the bill, service providers will not be held liable for violations they do not know of but if notified by a copyright holder, must take rapid action to shut down the alleged violator. However, if the copyright holder fails to pursue the claim in court within a few weeks, the alleged violator has the right to demand that online access be restored. The controversial database provision, that was added at the last minute to the House version of the bill by North Carolina Republican Rep. Howard Coble, was dropped by a conference committee of members of both chambers. The provision would have overturned a Supreme Court ruling and granted copyright protection for the first time to databases assembled out of facts that themselves were common knowledge and not protected by copyright law. "The library community is extremely grateful that a sea change in American law was not made,'' Adam Eisgrau, lobbyist for the American Library Association, said. � Reuters Ltd. All rights reserved ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Sat Oct 10 23:21:52 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 14:21:52 +0800 Subject: IP: Oops! Police Fire Tear Gas Into Wrong House Message-ID: <199810110537.WAA18805@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Oops! Police Fire Tear Gas Into Wrong House Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 17:21:40 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com Source: St. Paul, Minnesota Pioneer Planet News http://www.pioneerplanet.com/news/mtc_docs/004072.htm Published: Friday, October 9, 1998 Suspect captured; incident probed Tear gas fired into neighbor's house by St. Paul police ROBERT F. MOORE STAFF WRITER A 12-hour search for a man who shot at St. Paul police in Highland Park ended Thursday morning when a police dog found him hiding in a tool shed. And a couple living next door to the suspect was temporarily moved by the city into a hotel after police fired tear gas into their home. Police Chief William Finney said Thursday night he didn't know whether the action was planned by the Critical Incident Response Team, or CIRT. ``I suspect it was an accident,'' Finney said. ``Overall it was an excellent operation. No one was hurt. They held the position for 12 hours and they made the arrest. But they have some explaining to do.'' Dr. Daniel Lutz, the owner of the house, was not looking for explanations Thursday night. He just wanted to get back into the home he has shared with his wife for the last five years. ``I saw my house in the dark last night, but I don't even know the extent of the damage,'' said Lutz, 28, a chiropractor in Circle Pines. ``Right now, I'm not trying to point fingers. I don't know if it was justified or not. I just want my house put back in order.'' Lutz said the city has begun decontaminating the house and that he planned to move back in early next week. He and his wife had been evacuated and were at a neighbor's home before the tear gas operation began just after 1 a.m. Meanwhile, Finney has scheduled a meeting with supervisors of the operation today to determine what happened. Other neighbors who took cover in their basements before the operation said a contractor was at the scene late Thursday afternoon to replace the windows of the Lutz home. Finney said the city attorney was working with the family to repair the damage. Neither Finney nor Lutz knew the extent of the damage Thursday night. Despite the incident, however, neighbors agreed police responded appropriately, simply because the suspect was apprehended. At about 8:30 a.m. Thursday, a police dog discovered Wa Lee Her, 51, in a rusty tin shed next to a residence on the 2300 block of Edgcumbe Road. Her was treated at Regions Hospital for dog bites on a leg and released to police custody, pending a decision on multiple aggravated assault charges. Police said the dog, Ranger, was sent into the shed after Her ignored orders to come out. The suspect did not draw a weapon during his capture, though police recovered a shotgun and a rifle. One of those weapons was allegedly used the night before to threaten his wife and also to fire a shot at police. Her's stepson told a 911 dispatcher his stepfather was threatening to shoot his mother. Her was apprehended just blocks away from his family's St. Paul Avenue house. Finney praised the two officers, Tina Kill and Jeffrey Levens, who responded to Her's home on the 1100 block of St. Paul Avenue just before 9 p.m. Wednesday. ``I'm real proud of those two officers,'' Finney said. ``They did exactly what they were trained to do. They contained the situation, evacuated the residents of the house, called for additional resources and kept the suspect bottled up all night.'' Police blocked off the area soon after Her allegedly fired a shot at Levens and fled into the neighborhood between Howell Street and Edgcumbe Road. Levens had shined a flashlight on the suspect and ordered him to put his hands in the open, when Her fired at the officer, police said. Levens returned fire. No one was hit. Later in the night, officers decided to use tear gas after hearing what police said was a muffled sound, possibly a gunshot, come from the suspect's house. Police first fired tear gas into the Lutz home and then the suspect's. Officers from CIRT and the K-9 unit waited until about 7 a.m. to conduct a ground search of the area. It was a move Finney said was intended to protect both the public and the between 40 and 50 officers in the area. ``It doesn't make sense to search a wooded area in the dark when the suspect has such firepower,'' Finney said. ``We don't want citizens caught in the cross-fire.'' Neighbors knew little about the suspect, but longtime residents thought the family moved into their home less than two years ago. ``It was the most frightened I have ever been in my life,'' said Bonnie Rodriguez, 49, who lives next door to the house where Her was found. ``I was getting ready to go to my doctor and I heard police officers crawling on my roof and walking on my patio. Some had bulletproof vests, some were dressed in camouflage. They had their guns drawn, so they must have known the man was close. I thought there would be a shootout in front of my house and someone would die in my yard.'' _ Rodriguez, who has lived on Edgcumbe Road for 15 years, said police were searching around her house for about 30 minutes Thursday morning. ``I feel better that he is not out here right now, but it terrifies me that he was out there all night and could have broken into my house,'' she said. Pat Sellner, who also lives in the neighborhood, viewed the assault and manhunt as isolated incidents. Sellner, however, admitted being nervous when he heard a helicopter flying overhead Wednesday night. ``I called 911 when the helicopter got lower,'' he said. ``The dispatcher just told me to lock the doors and to stay inside.'' _Cmdr. Doug Wills viewed the entire situation with relief, reflecting on the deaths of two St. Paul police officers gunned down four years ago. ``Whenever you get in a situation like this, you have to remember the day those officers were killed,'' Wills said. ``It dictates how you do business, because you want to make sure nothing like that will happen again.'' St. Paul police officer Ron Ryan Jr. was fatally shot at 7 a.m. Aug. 26, 1994, in the parking lot of an East Side church. Three hours later, officer Tim Jones and his police dog, Laser, were shot and killed by Ryan's assailant as they and others searched for him in the neighborhood. Guy Harvey Baker was caught, convicted and sentenced to life in prison for the slayings. Robert F. Moore, who covers crime and public safety, can be reached at rmoore at pioneerpress.com or at (651) 228-5591. �1998 PioneerPlanet / St. Paul (Minnesota) Pioneer Press - All Rights Reserved copyright information ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Sat Oct 10 23:22:53 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 14:22:53 +0800 Subject: IP: This Country *Needs* to Come to a Screeching Halt! Message-ID: <199810110537.WAA18784@netcom13.netcom.com> From: Patricia Neill Subject: IP: This Country *Needs* to Come to a Screeching Halt! Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 15:44:42 -0400 To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com This Country *Needs* to Come to a Screeching Halt! by Patricia Neill (c) 1998 All week I've had to listen to the ever more irritating mass media clones droning on about how Americans want "the country to move on" and how all these polled citizens want the President and Congress "to get back to the business of running the country." The media droids (and they have such a droidic quality that they're beginning to sound all alike to me) have of course used their boring technique of repeating these dimwitted phrases over and over and over and over in the bright hope that we get the message. As always, I have to wonder who the hell these media people poll. It surely isn't me nor the millions upon millions like me! My bet is that the pollagandizers (a newly minted, wonderful fresh coinage from the pen of Publius Press) ask each other what they think, and use that as their statistically significantly absolutely similar population. Or maybe they ask the animals at the Washington Zoo and take the calls, snarls and roars for the dulcent tones of assent and consent to their pollaganda (lifted from the same place, today's Federalist Digest). But what I do know is that they are not asking *anyone* who remotely disagrees with their bias, and if they mistakenly call someone like me, I'm probably one of the ones they would simply ignore, as not statistically significant, or at least not significant, to their wizened little minds. As for me, do I want "the country to move on?" Hell, NO! I want it to come to a screeching halt! I want everything else to stop, cease, desist until the American people and those spurious Spongelords down in Congress have a chance to fully investigate Mr. Clinton and his White House. I don't care if no other "business of the country" gets handled. I don't care if NO federal agencies get funded. In fact, I'd just as soon they weren't. Let's not fund them for a year, and see if we miss any of them. I doubt it. We'd all be a lot happier if they disappeared off the face of the earth. Ain't that the truth. I don't even care if Congress has to close down. That'd be another blessing in my book. They can all meet outside of Congress and hold their investigation. They don't need to be under oath--they never pay any attention to it anyway. In fact, why doesn't the Republican majority shut down Congress while they go about checking out those lying sacks of gas up on 1600 Pennsylvania. They can rent the Watergate Hotel--it'd be a fitting touch. I want to know every little detail of what Mr. Clinton did, and when. I want to know how Hillary's billing files for the Rose Law Firm "disappeared" and then "showed up." I want to know about all the millions Bill and Hillary and gang stole from Madison Guaranty. I want all the myriads of scandals of this White House--both Clintons and ALL their cohorts--laid open for the public to see--and I know it will be ugly, real ugly. Actually, my bet is it will be pretty fascinating in a sick kind of way. Like watching a huge spider crawl up the wall if you have arachnaphobia. One fatheaded demagogue (I think it was Barney Frank) was quoted on NPR this morning as saying (and this is not exact, as I was busy trying to get the escaping smoke back into my ears). In the whining, puling tones, characteristic of this particular specimen of Congress: "We should censure Clinton, but he did nothing impeachable. Do you *really* want this thing to drag on for a year, while the 'business of the country' is waiting?" Short answer to that is, there is absolutely no reason under the sun for this to take a year, you dissembling, mammering twit! You could do it in a day, an hour, a nanosecond.You ALREADY know the crimes of Bill Clinton and his wife. You already *know* he lied, he lied to you, he lied to the grand jury, he lied to the American people. And my question for you is, what the hell is your *problem.* Do you honestly think Bill Clinton should be allowed to get away with not only his adultery and lying, but with all his other malfeasances, offenses, violations, felonies, torts, misconduct, misdeeds, sins, transgressions, iniquities and outrages--did I miss anything? Oh yes, murders! You have six years worth to sort through. In fact, Bill Clinton is such a crook that he should have been impeached, tried, convicted and jailed *before* he became president. You have his Washington crimes, but if you go back to his Arkansas years, you'd really have a bonanza! So, please, stop everything else and deal with this impeachment, immediately. The financial global crisis can go right on crisis-ing, for all I care. You all created that problem in the first place, and you ain't gonna get my money to solve it by bailing out Wall Street again. The heck with that. So put everything else to the side, and yes, bring this country to a screeching halt. And see to Mr. Clinton's crimes. My respect for the government is already a mere wisp at this point, if that. If Congress does not impeach--and do a serious job--then ALL my respect for government and what you folk cynically call "rule of law" will be gone. That's a promise. ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From tcmay at got.net Sun Oct 11 00:11:21 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 15:11:21 +0800 Subject: A Scud in California! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 10:30 PM -0700 10/10/98, Anonymous wrote: >>>>>> William Knowles writes: > > >> From another one of the several lists I'm on, I figured someone > > might know who the new pseudo-proud owner of a fully-operational > > SS-1C Scud missle *WITH* moblie launcher is... > >No shit, Batman -- especially seeing as TCM already discussed it on >this list over a week ago... > >-- ScudMonger Hey, don't give free clues to the clueless. 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(10/10) -------------------------------------------------------------- From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz Sun Oct 11 07:55:19 1998 From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 22:55:19 +0800 Subject: Hidden WebTV signatures Message-ID: <90811614423763@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz> For those of you who don't read sci.crypt, Robert Ames has posted an article in which he observes that all WebTV posts contain an X-WebTV-Signature: line containing base64-encoded data. For samples of WebTV-generated posts, try the alt.weemba newsgroup, which is filled with WebTV-user drool (caution: remember to employ protection when exposting your mind to the content of the messages). Some samples: X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhQDqtur/jfleJ2CDOnNrVoeyALEQAIUOQyCBbzjx5HHfxeMERDgCjztXOU= X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhUAmCCzQt+Tqt6fNX+L9+gDCECaqQkCFA0YCPz5tk85mUgq7iX/u4vWvOgG These decode into ASN.1-encoded DSA signatures, eg: 1 30 45: SEQUENCE { 3 02 21: INTEGER : 00 98 20 B3 42 DF 93 AA DE 9F 35 7F 8B F7 E8 03 : 08 40 9A A9 09 26 02 20: INTEGER : 0D 18 08 FC F9 B6 4F 39 99 48 2A EE 25 FF BB 8B : D6 BC E8 06 : } for the second one. The key isn't included in the header, presumably the @webtv.net address can be tied to the hardware which contains some hardcoded DSA key. I wonder if WebTV users know they're signing each message they send? Peter. From ginadi at topchat.com Sun Oct 11 23:06:22 1998 From: ginadi at topchat.com (ginadi at topchat.com) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 23:06:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Hello from Miami, Message-ID: <199810120606.XAA26042@toad.com> Want to have your own successful internet business? Be your own boss? 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Do you want your members to stay members? Do you want to increase your membership? If the above three questions are answered YES, then you need the products from Pornholio. Day after day, month after month, Pornholio provides the finest quality adult XXX products for webmasters who are making money. Pornholio products keep your members coming back. Want to find out more about our products? Our great photos? Our great hidden cams? Our incredible video feeds? Want a trial run on our products? Then pick up the phone NOW and call Dave. (818) 757-1267 Be sure to tell Dave you got Sunday's email so you can get this week's specials. Do it now or you'll get more cancellations. From guy at panix.com Sun Oct 11 10:12:25 1998 From: guy at panix.com (Information Security) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 01:12:25 +0800 Subject: Hidden WebTV signatures Message-ID: <199810111635.MAA06347@panix7.panix.com> > From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) > > I wonder if WebTV users know they're signing each message they send? Of course they don't. 8*( How about email? If they Usenet-post via replay? ---guy From info at sparky.clearworks.net Mon Oct 12 01:24:16 1998 From: info at sparky.clearworks.net (info at sparky.clearworks.net) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 01:24:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: What does IBM know about ClearWorks that you don't? Message-ID: <68645747_49581639> Undiscovered Internet Stock (CLWK OTC:BB). What does IBM know about this company that you don't? Follow this link for more information on ClearWorks: http://www.clearworks.net/news_menu_frame.htm DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTIES AND LIABILITY Due to the number of sources from which news and information on the Service is obtained, and the inherent hazards of electronic distribution, there may be delays, omissions or inaccuracies in such news, information and the Service. Direct Communications Corporation AND ITS AFFILIATES, AGENTS AND LICENSORS CANNOT AND DO NOT WARRANT THE ACCURACY, COMPLETENESS, CORRECTNESS, NONINFRINGEMENT, MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE OF THE INFORMATION AVAILABLE THROUGH THE SERVICE, OR THE SERVICE ITSELF. 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It's faster than ever before and now, as a subscriber, you get 35 FREE new pics every day, plus over 100 more at carefully selected FREE sites we link to. This email is never sent unsolicited. Stuffed is the supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full instructions on unsubscribing are in every issue of Eureka! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- From pooh at efga.org Sun Oct 11 11:12:14 1998 From: pooh at efga.org (Robert A. Costner) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 02:12:14 +0800 Subject: Hidden WebTV signatures Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981011134922.03d645e4@rboc.net> At 03:29 AM 10/12/98, Peter Gutmann wrote: I have experimented with an X-signature line for "remailing" messages. I was recently trying this with the dragoncon.net service. Cracker is a traditional Cypherpunk remailer. Properly used, messages from Cracker are not traceable even to governments. Cracker generates enough complaints to be bothersome. Redneck, the nymserver, on the other hand produces almost no complaints. I perceive the different on the user's side as being accountability and the use of a persistent identity. On the recipients side, the issue is retribution. There are people who receive anonymous messages who simply want retribution. Cracker does not allow this retribution to the user (so they pick on me:). Redneck does allow retribution. http://anon.efga.org Cracker and Redneck are "special" in that under no circumstances are logs kept, messages traced, or any attempt done to track users. So I started a variation of a nym service at another domain, http://www.dragoncon.net Based on comments from recipients and users of anonymous messages, I kept two requirements * No user based encryption required * Retribution against the user is available There is/was a back door in that while all messages go out with an X-IP header, this is "lost" if the user originally registered with a first name of "Anonymous". I will not claim this is as secure as Cracker or Redneck, but the service does fit the needs of many people. I wanted to keep my original requirements in mind and allow messages to be sent "From: Anonymous" such as a cypherpunk remailer does. In an effort retain my requirement of recipient retribution, I experimented with the idea of adding an X-Signature header which verifies the messages and the sender address, but only to the dragoncon.net mailer software. I experimented with PGP and the smallest key length hoping to get signatures down to two lines, but this was not possible. The idea was that only a registered user could post a message using the "Anonymous" user id. But if there were complaints, then I could assist the complainant in getting retribution. In fact, it would even be possible to send replies to "Anonymous" and the remailer would determine who to send the message to. I played with it for a day. Maybe I'll pick it up again later. Any comments on the idea are appreciated. I don't usually read all cypherpunk messages, so cc'ing me if you start a new thread would be nice. -- Robert Costner Phone: (770) 512-8746 Get your free email at http://www.dragoncon.net From nobody at replay.com Sun Oct 11 11:13:08 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 02:13:08 +0800 Subject: test - ignore Message-ID: <199810111748.TAA26223@replay.com> ping From nobody at replay.com Sun Oct 11 13:47:37 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 04:47:37 +0800 Subject: Hidden WebTV signatures Message-ID: <199810112027.WAA06963@replay.com> Peter Gutmann writes: > For those of you who don't read sci.crypt, Robert Ames has > posted an article in which he observes that all WebTV posts contain an > X-WebTV-Signature: line containing base64-encoded data. For samples of > WebTV-generated posts, try the alt.weemba newsgroup, which is filled with > WebTV-user drool (caution: remember to employ protection when exposting your > mind to the content of the messages). Some samples: > > X-WebTV-Signature: 1 > ETAsAhQDqtur/jfleJ2CDOnNrVoeyALEQAIUOQyCBbzjx5HHfxeMERDgCjztXOU= > X-WebTV-Signature: 1 > ETAtAhUAmCCzQt+Tqt6fNX+L9+gDCECaqQkCFA0YCPz5tk85mUgq7iX/u4vWvOgG Could someone grep their news spool for a few hundred of these signatures and post them here? We can do statistical analysis on them and determine whether they all appear to be modulo the same q value. > These decode into ASN.1-encoded DSA signatures, eg: > > 1 30 45: SEQUENCE { > 3 02 21: INTEGER > : 00 98 20 B3 42 DF 93 AA DE 9F 35 7F 8B F7 E8 03 > : 08 40 9A A9 09 > 26 02 20: INTEGER > : 0D 18 08 FC F9 B6 4F 39 99 48 2A EE 25 FF BB 8B > : D6 BC E8 06 > : } > > for the second one. The key isn't included in the header, presumably the > @webtv.net address can be tied to the hardware which contains some hardcoded > DSA key. I wonder if WebTV users know they're signing each message they send? If they are DSA signatures, they should all be mod q, where q is some 160 bit prime. Whether everyone uses the same key or different keys, they probably all share p and q. In that case the histogram of the values should be flat up to a cutoff point. We need to collect some hundreds of these values in order to distinguish them from random 160 bit values. The largest q value found in a dozen or so alt.weemba messages from dejanews started with 0xc0, so q must be at least this large if they are DSA sigs. This amount of data was not sufficient to distinguish from alternate theories, such as that each person has a random 160 bit q. From bmm at minder.net Sun Oct 11 13:55:40 1998 From: bmm at minder.net (BMM) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 04:55:40 +0800 Subject: Test: cypherpunks@minder.net Message-ID: Test of new DNS records. From phelix at vallnet.com Sun Oct 11 15:16:56 1998 From: phelix at vallnet.com (phelix at vallnet.com) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 06:16:56 +0800 Subject: Hidden WebTV signatures In-Reply-To: <199810112027.WAA06963@replay.com> Message-ID: <36312944.569864385@news> On 11 Oct 1998 15:57:33 -0500, Anonymous wrote: > >Peter Gutmann writes: > >> For those of you who don't read sci.crypt, Robert Ames has >> posted an article in which he observes that all WebTV posts contain an >> X-WebTV-Signature: line containing base64-encoded data. For samples of >> WebTV-generated posts, try the alt.weemba newsgroup, which is filled with >> WebTV-user drool (caution: remember to employ protection when exposting your >> mind to the content of the messages). Some samples: >> >> X-WebTV-Signature: 1 >> ETAsAhQDqtur/jfleJ2CDOnNrVoeyALEQAIUOQyCBbzjx5HHfxeMERDgCjztXOU= >> X-WebTV-Signature: 1 >> ETAtAhUAmCCzQt+Tqt6fNX+L9+gDCECaqQkCFA0YCPz5tk85mUgq7iX/u4vWvOgG > >Could someone grep their news spool for a few hundred of these signatures >and post them here? We can do statistical analysis on them and determine >whether they all appear to be modulo the same q value. Here ya go. 313 webtv sigs -- Phelix ETAtAhQeHk0+b8Au0iGpkJrZtwhsU2MVoAIVAJR/nr45zMDoq1G526NRP+3jHVIb ETAtAhUAiWMjaBJx75P5wCgIxslClcSUU4cCFHT6dVYU49dtEvX4HCI4bcmEiKBU ETAsAhRLS36vm1OTCBG3CIAwMpdtg3fR1gIUdgWUE1cbbagEl7VbQvsengViPHc= ETAtAhRPFKEhK84e2wMmHyKACt4Ilk3XZQIVAK5QZTG6xGW7+GXIGmu9xF7GyvSn ETAtAhUAn6+qmQ+AYo9mIViQs4RDCODbJJoCFG+qrJqmg5qDjmakFC1Nawod5iA5 ETAtAhUAnictPulenQVgOJQjNC4u3hpnCaYCFDOD5PTlySpx4Qu2ddUdRpWhoqlE ETAtAhRkO6kc7G5ww8SpfDc/9Y8trMjBgQIVAL8hrbkiiiN+IQ5lI4860ssYPpBI ETAtAhQK1pwmX2vexa6PGwc3HfZ456ItvwIVAILP38f9fhupBIRPRKZTS3RiLzby ETAtAhUAujZyW0eEGw8psn3AEp36f+vawlECFAcf6N5k3ozrc5Q7TXzXnn1hAdJq ETAtAhUAwPBBuO6hICVNIj0Oifsyy+lno4wCFAJqdwoxzhTKc3Y2VdJksLU4FV/t ETAtAhQzQv8qPo9+RKW4q4pIIyRcJMuFXAIVAMLD0isOPeOqlH8bZlxEk9942FeJ ETAuAhUAqpXbl7r7FeP9IGtdSxm5fN22D6kCFQDFqfziRormhgR1PhPZUUurhWfvVQ== ETAtAhUAjobFsoDyAlBzx80x1C5LOi2XahICFCzEQePKOCZTOzxB3SbzXR5jEJMC ETAsAhR8oNABuZlXFw+c/lOqtdP+ieetrQIUQ8qoJtrYsT98CVvpryOhh3BQKw4= 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LISTSERV.CC.EMORY.EDU (L-Soft list server at Emory University (1.8d)) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 07:59:50 +0800 Subject: Command confirmation request (6329BE1B) Message-ID: <199810112342.SAA00430@einstein.ssz.com> Your command: PW REP XXXXXXXX requires confirmation. To confirm the execution of your command, simply point your browser to the following URL: http://listserv.cc.emory.edu/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?OK=6329BE1B Alternatively, if you have no WWW access, you can reply to the present message and type "ok" (without the quotes) as the text of your message. Just the word "ok" - do not retype the command. This procedure will work with any mail program that fully conforms to the Internet standards for electronic mail. If you receive an error message, try sending a new message to LISTSERV at LISTSERV.CC.EMORY.EDU (without using the "reply" function - this is very important) and type "ok 6329BE1B" as the text of your message. Finally, your command will be cancelled automatically if LISTSERV does not receive your confirmation within 48h. After that time, you must start over and resend the command to get a new confirmation code. If you change your mind and decide that you do NOT want to confirm the command, simply discard the present message and let the request expire on its own. From nobody at replay.com Sun Oct 11 17:26:23 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 08:26:23 +0800 Subject: Anon poster claims anon remailers broken Message-ID: <199810120007.CAA25757@replay.com> >PS. there is someone on this list who knows who >i am. yes there is someone who knows who anon >posters are. we fucking hate you and am waiting >for you to take the trap and we will reveal your >identity scumbag. I don't post here much and in fact I haven't in at least a month or two, but I'm willing to take this challenge. Since you know who anon posters are, who am I? From nobody at replay.com Sun Oct 11 21:59:28 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 12:59:28 +0800 Subject: Hidden WebTV signatures Message-ID: <199810120441.GAA12553@replay.com> Phelix writes: > Here ya go. 313 webtv sigs Thanks. Each of these decodes to a pair of integer values, as described by Peter Gutmann. Here is a histogram of the high order hex digit: # Values Digit 54 0 35 1 56 2 49 3 43 4 50 5 47 6 57 7 45 8 43 9 49 a 54 b 44 c 0 d 0 e 0 f It cuts off at "c" and is pretty uniform up to then so it does indicate that the values are uniformly distributed modulo a common 64 bit value. The last few values, numerically, are: cac1cb18c3d20ca400db3a1458128bea3f696edf cae7ea1cff68371b6541a829d6a5327bf77b8ba4 cb6449fb156e3b7a0f9577a9163dab099540360d cb9e0b23cdfebac34c38a933fcf303a5ecac64eb cba8abfa8cdcfa7a7f91e3563b3d7fa24511ab6c cc1a7a3ac5107a17fd7d0957223a189ac9b692b7 cc4d60e041b32e85d8148a2a340f3ae6c2a6f02c cc9d2ed06373569225844c8b0bd2e7c55537ab71 cd53fb5bc7699730b39d42b99782fecfdfe52a5a This suggests that the "q" value is probably a 160 bit value starting with 0xcd. We can't tell whether there is a common key or whether every unit has a different key. In either case it is likely that p, q and g will be shared among all units. The individual part is the secret x value and the public y = g^x mod p. Probably there is no way to find these from the signatures. For reference, here is the 20 minute program which produced this output: /* Decode webtv signatures */ #include #include #define TAG_INTEGER 2 #define TAG_SEQUENCE 16 static unsigned char asctobin[] = { 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0076, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0077, 0064, 0065, 0066, 0067, 0070, 0071, 0072, 0073, 0074, 0075, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0000, 0001, 0002, 0003, 0004, 0005, 0006, 0007, 0010, 0011, 0012, 0013, 0014, 0015, 0016, 0017, 0020, 0021, 0022, 0023, 0024, 0025, 0026, 0027, 0030, 0031, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0032, 0033, 0034, 0035, 0036, 0037, 0040, 0041, 0042, 0043, 0044, 0045, 0046, 0047, 0050, 0051, 0052, 0053, 0054, 0055, 0056, 0057, 0060, 0061, 0062, 0063, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200 }; /* Do base64 decoding */ /* Return number of chars output */ static int decode64 (const unsigned char *inbuf, unsigned char *outbuf) { int w = 0; int cnt = 0; int ci, co; unsigned char *op = outbuf; for ( ; ; ) { ci = (*inbuf++); if (ci & 0x80) break; co = asctobin[ci]; if (co & 0x80) break; w = (w << 6) | co; if (++cnt == 4) { *op++ = (w >> 16) & 0xff; *op++ = (w >> 8) & 0xff; *op++ = (w >> 0) & 0xff; cnt = 0; w = 0; } } if (cnt == 1) { fprintf (stderr, "Bad base64 input\n"); exit (1); } else if (cnt == 2) { *op++ = (w >> 4) & 0xff; } else if (cnt == 3) { *op++ = (w >> 10) & 0xff; *op++ = (w >> 2) & 0xff; } return op - outbuf; } /* Print out a nominally 20 byte value */ static void hexdump20 (unsigned char *data, size_t datalen) { if (datalen > 20) { int cnt = datalen - 20; while (cnt--) { if (*data++ != 0) { fprintf (stderr, "Error, more than 20 byte output\n"); return; } } datalen = 20; } if (datalen < 20) { int cnt = 20 - datalen; while (cnt--) printf ("00"); } while (datalen--) { printf ("%02x", *data++); } putchar ('\n'); } /* Read start of an X.509 object */ static int decodetag(unsigned char **buf, int *length) { unsigned char tag = *(*buf)++ & 0x1f; int len = *(*buf)++; if (len & 0x80) { int lenlen = len & 0x7f; len = 0; while (lenlen--) { len <<= 8; len |= *(*buf)++; } } *length = len; return tag; } main () { unsigned char buf[1024]; unsigned char *bp; unsigned char outbuf[1024]; unsigned char *op; int outlen; int len; int tag; while (fgets(buf, sizeof(buf), stdin)) { bp = buf; while (isspace(*bp)) ++bp; outlen = decode64 (bp, outbuf); if (outbuf[0] != 0x11) { fprintf (stderr, "First char of output not 0x11, unexpected!\n"); } op = outbuf + 1; tag = decodetag (&op, &len); if (tag != TAG_SEQUENCE) { fprintf (stderr, "Output is not a SEQUENCE, skipping\n"); continue; } tag = decodetag (&op, &len); if (tag != TAG_INTEGER) { fprintf (stderr, "First value is not an INTEGER, skipping\n"); continue; } hexdump20 (op, len); op += len; tag = decodetag (&op, &len); if (tag != TAG_INTEGER) { fprintf (stderr, "Second value is not an INTEGER, skipping\n"); continue; } hexdump20 (op, len); } exit (0); } From gbroiles at netbox.com Sun Oct 11 22:14:21 1998 From: gbroiles at netbox.com (Greg Broiles) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 13:14:21 +0800 Subject: nonviolent AP variant Message-ID: At yesterday's physical cypherpunks meeting in Palo Alto, Steve Schear and I were talking about the practical/legal/moral aspects of the "assassination politics" scheme; during the course of that conversation, we discussed the possibility that a similar scheme might usefully be employed in a non-violent context, assuming the existence of a working (=legitimate) legal or political system. In a nutshell (this is my later gloss on things we discussed, so confusion should be blamed on me), the system might be organized as follows: One or more organizers announce their intention to create a prize pool concerning a certain question - for example, "The circumstances under which Bill Clinton's presidency ends." The organizers would then collect contributions towards a prize pool to be awarded to the person with the most accurate guess, as well as guesses about the subject matter of the general question. Depending on the gambling/contest laws of the local jurisdiction, the organizers might or might not choose to require a contribution towards the pool in order to register a guess/prediction. Further, the organizers would likely choose to reject any guesses which required or implied the breaking of laws (or the wrongful initiation of force), as they'd prefer not to be investigated/prosecuted in the event that a guesser did something illegal/wrong in hopes of collecting the prize. The contest would then proceed - guesses would likely be held confidentially, time-stamped, to minimize piling on (especially where entry is free). Third parties with information or the ability to legitimately modify the outcome of the contest - for example, former mistresses or business partners who might come forward with otherwise withheld evidence of wrongdoing - would have a strong motivation to provide as detailed a guess as possible, including their particular information, and then to make that information available to the legal/political system so that it would be acted upon. If the prize pool grew large enough, the subject of the question might choose to force the resolution, winning the prize for themselves - e.g., if $10M is enough to tempt Clinton from office, he can predict his own resignation (e.g., "Clinton will resign on Oct 31, 1998, wearing a blue suit and a yellow striped tie; the last sentence of his speech will be 'Darlin', let's git the truck packed, I'm outta here!'") This modification of the "AP" process has several advantages - it's probably legal, it's nonviolent, and it's likely to encourage (rather than undermine) cooperative/consensual governance, instead of rule by fear/force. It seems to be the result of a combination of the "idea futures" system and the reward process for Eric Rudolph as interpreted by Bo Gritz - e.g., get the figure high enough, and the target will turn himself in and use the reward to fund his own defense. It definitely needs a better name than "assassination politics". -- Greg Broiles gbroiles at netbox.com From nobody at replay.com Sun Oct 11 23:11:42 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:11:42 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199810120542.HAA16084@replay.com> From mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de Sun Oct 11 23:23:49 1998 From: mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de (Mok-Kong Shen) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:23:49 +0800 Subject: NT 5.0 and EFS -- A victory for widespread use of crypto? In-Reply-To: <361BF3ED.8111C033@bitstream.net> Message-ID: <3621A939.4D2E7FC1@stud.uni-muenchen.de> > On Wed, Oct 07, 1998 at 06:06:21PM -0500, Steve Dunlop wrote: > > So what's DESX? DESX is DES with 'whitening' of input and output. See B. Schneier, Applied Cryptography, 2nd ed., p.295. M. K. Shen From vznuri at netcom.com Sun Oct 11 23:52:56 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:52:56 +0800 Subject: nonviolent AP variant In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199810120632.XAA25308@netcom13.netcom.com> if you guys spent any fraction of the amount of time thinking about "assassination politics" as a way to improve government, as you did about the legitimate ways that are already available, I think the world would soon be turned into a better place. there are obvious ways of improving the government that are not being tried. but far easier to take the nihilistic "cryptoanarchy" pseudo-ideology of insisting that government is inherently evil, and any thoughts about improving it are inherently sinful and misguided, i.e. blasphemous. the truth is that sheeple are immature and lazy, incapable of planning their destiny past the next 6 pack, and therefore fully deserving of their stormy fate at the hands of a small elite who takes organization seriously-- with only the small unfortunately twist that they are all self-serving parasites. perhaps an economic crash is a natural intermittent human event that says to the public, "wake up"!! a crisis is always a sign of a kind of false image crumbling under truth/reality which will ultimately puncture all lies (but will not deliver slaves from self-imposed slavery, if that is their conscious or unconscious choice). From mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de Mon Oct 12 00:43:37 1998 From: mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de (Mok-Kong Shen) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 15:43:37 +0800 Subject: IP: Different Approaches to Privacy Issue: OECD In-Reply-To: <199810110537.WAA18794@netcom13.netcom.com> Message-ID: <3621BBDC.F59EA4AB@stud.uni-muenchen.de> Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote: > > 09 October 1998 > > OECD CONFERENCE ACCEPTS DIFFERENT APPROACHES TO > PRIVACY ISSUE > Ottawa -- A conference of 29 industrialized countries for promoting > electronic commerce has resolved a controversy between the United > States and the European over Internet privacy by accepting both points > of view. > > The United States contended industry should be left to manage the > problem by itself, but the European Union had demanded a government > regulatory approach. This 'sounds' like the US is opposed to having any crypto regulations!?? M. K. Shen From nobody at replay.com Mon Oct 12 01:27:15 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 16:27:15 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199810120806.KAA24593@replay.com> Monday, October 12, 1998 - 10:00:42 MET <--Suspicious Central European Time Zone >> >> From another one of the several lists I'm on, I figured someone >> > might know who the new pseudo-proud owner of a fully-operational >> > SS-1C Scud missle *WITH* moblie launcher is... ... >Besides, my interest is not in that obsolete SCUD, but in the 8 >shoulder-fired missiles brought in at Cosco's port the week before. Hey, there's a SALE on MISSILES at COSTCO!!! ~~~~~ No, not _that_ China Overseas Shipping Company.... the one that merged with Price Club! From trends at lcrt.com Mon Oct 12 02:00:18 1998 From: trends at lcrt.com (trends at lcrt.com) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 17:00:18 +0800 Subject: 5,000 URL Search Engine Submissions - $99 !!! *AD* Message-ID: <199810120829.BAA27132@toad.com> ============================================================ Remove instructions can be found at the bottom of this page. ============================================================ Effective web site promotion is an essential part of just about any successful Internet marketing program. Search engine submission is the most effective and inexpensive way to advertise your web site on the Internet. FTWI will submit your web site URL to 450+ search engines and directories once a month for an entire year. This includes all the major search engines and directories. Most other submission services you find on the Internet just submit your site URL one time at a much higher cost. We are submitting your site 12 different times. 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Thanks, FTWI Internet Marketing ftwi at lcrt.com ---------------------------------------------------------- FTWI Web Site Submission Order Form Complete this order form and send it with your check or money order for $99 made payable to: FTWI Name: _________________________________________________ Address: ______________________________________________ City: _____________________State: _____Zip: ___________ Phone number:_________________Date: ___/___/___ Valid Email Address: _______________________________ Web site to submit: http://____________________________ Returned checks are subject to $25 NSF Fee. You will receive an email receipt as soon as we receive your payment. Service will start immediately. Send your order and payment to: FTWI. 4019 Goldfinch, Ste. J San Diego, CA 92103 ------------------------------------------------------------ This message complies with the proposed United States Federal requirements for commercial e-mail bill, Section 301. For additional info see: http://www.senate.gov/~murkowski/commercialemail/EMailAmendText.html Sender Information: FTWI 4019 Goldfinch St, Ste. J San Diego, CA 92103 6194910215 Per Section 301, Paragraph (a)(2)(C) of S. 1618, further transmissions to you by the sender of this e-mail may be stopped at NO COST to you by sending a reply to trends at lcrt.com with the word "remove" in the subject line. From blancw at cnw.com Mon Oct 12 02:02:05 1998 From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 17:02:05 +0800 Subject: nonviolent AP variant In-Reply-To: <199810120632.XAA25308@netcom13.netcom.com> Message-ID: <000701bdf5bb$5b5309a0$2b8195cf@blanc> >From Vladimir Z. Nurd: : if you guys spent any fraction of the amount of time : thinking about "assassination politics" as a way to : improve government, as you did about the legitimate : ways that are already available, I think the world : would soon be turned into a better place. So what are you going to do about it if they don't, Neuro - get on the list and whine? : the truth is that sheeple are immature and lazy, : incapable of planning their destiny past the next : 6 pack, and therefore fully deserving of their stormy fate : at the hands of a small elite who takes organization : seriously-- with only the small unfortunately twist : that they are all self-serving parasites. The sheeple deserve it, but the rest of us don't. Consider abandoning them to their fate. .. 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If you wish to be deleted from our database, please reply with the subject "R emove" ************************************************************************ � From rah at shipwright.com Mon Oct 12 06:22:22 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 21:22:22 +0800 Subject: IP: Court ruling allows anonymous political attacks Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Delivered-To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com X-Sender: believer at telepath.com Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 04:14:44 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Court ruling allows anonymous political attacks Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Precedence: list Reply-To: believer at telepath.com Source: The Oregonian http://www.oregonlive.com/todaysnews/9810/st101108.html Court ruling allows anonymous attacks Viciousness increases after the U.S. Supreme Court strikes down an Oregon law requiring that political ads be credited Sunday, October 11 1998 By Laura Oppenheimer of The Oregonian staff Terry Thompson and Ryan Deckert opened their mailboxes in mid-September to discover unpleasant surprises: anonymous political advertisements lambasting their public records. The two Democratic Oregon House members apparently were the first targets in what promises to be a vicious advertising attack season. And there's still plenty of time for candidates to exchange barbs before the Nov. 3 election, said Tim Gleason, dean of the University of Oregon School of Journalism and Communication. "This is the true test, said Gleason, who is coordinator of the Oregon Alliance for Better Campaigns. Races tighten up, and people are going all out. Frequently, the candidate isn't really in control of all the steps taken toward the end. A lot of people want that candidate to win. Although the ads against Thompson and Deckert included their opponents return addresses, as mandated by the U.S. Postal Service, they did not say who paid for or authorized them. Some candidates are taking advantage of a 1996 U.S. Supreme Court ruling that invalidated Oregons law requiring the sponsors name to run with all political advertising. Bills proposed during the 1997 Legislature would have reinstated regulations to counteract the court ruling. But the legislation stalled at the committee level and never came up for a vote. Oregons public officials didnt just maintain the level of negative attack ads by ignoring the legislation, Secretary of State Phil Keisling said. They raised the profile of the ruling so candidates knew they could run anonymous advertisements. "The Legislature just turned their backs on it, Keisling said. Their inaction spoke volumes about their concern about anonymous ads. The effect was to put up a big neon sign saying, Anonymous attack ads now allowed in Oregon. So whats the big deal about one little line of type that says paid for by . . . ? In a political climate where sparring can lead to voters cynicism, candidates should take responsibility for their criticisms, Keisling said. And all-out advertising slugfests can result in hard feelings -- and more partisan politics -- after the election is over, legislators said. "The truth matters, said Ed Kammer, an advertising activist who lobbied legislators to pass new regulations. The facts matter. Its a persons right to ignore what they want to ignore, but its not a thiefs right to disguise the theft. Many legislators, including Thompson, D-Newport, and Deckert, D-Beaverton, said they would support the type of legislation Keisling advocates if it is proposed again during the 1999 Legislature. In the meantime, candidates are free to be as vicious as they want. Aware of just how nasty this campaign season could become, several groups are pushing voluntary codes of conduct to stop the underhanded advertising before it starts. About 50 candidates signed Keislings Stand By Your Ad pledge, which requires them to include their name and address on all political advertising and to take responsibility for any criticism of their opponents. That means using their pictures in written material, narrating a radio ad and appearing on-screen in a TV commercial if it involves a comparison of candidates. Many candidates also signed the League of Women Voters code of conduct, which was adopted by the Oregon Alliance for Better Campaigns. The alliance, which is not counting the number of signers or keeping track of how candidates who took the pledge behave, is asking candidates to keep campaigns clean. The alliance also is coordinating issue-oriented, analytical political coverage on TV and radio stations across the state. "Its no more complicated than one of the things my mom told me growing up, Keisling said of his pledge. If youre going to say something bad about somebody, say it to their face. But nobody will be reprimanding candidates who violate the pledges or choose not to sign them. And for some candidates, sticking with the pledge will mean not responding to jabs at their character, credibility or public record. In mid-September, voters received a mailing with the headline, What was Terry thinking? In a large-print checklist, the ad compares Thompson with Republican Alan Brown, his opponent in House District 4. "Supports returning the income tax kicker refund shows a no for Thompson and a yes for Brown. So does the campaigns are bankrolled by big labor unions category. Thompson said many of the footnotes supporting these criticisms were based on one detail of a large bill or on bills that never came to a vote. Amid these sweeping accusations, Brown did not include a statement that his campaign had paid for the flier. Several years ago, the ad would have violated Oregon law. Henri Schauffler, Deckerts Republican opponent, said he would change one thing about his September fliers if he had it to do over again: Hed include the sponsorship. But he would keep the derogatory rundown of his opponents record, which included claims that Deckert believes voting against small business 57 percent of the time is acceptable and supports spending 2 percent kicker tax refunds to fund state government programs. Schauffler, who signed Keislings pledge, said he did not design the anonymous ads and regrets allowing them to be distributed. "Against my better judgment, I went ahead with the ads, Schauffler said. Im ultimately responsible, and I take responsibility for that mistake. Its not going to happen again from my camp. Deckert said he received more than 100 calls, e-mail messages and letters of support from voters who had seen the attack ads against him. Victims of negative ads face enormous pressure to retaliate, candidates said. In past elections, party workers have even suggested that Thompson hire a detective to spy on his opponent, he said. ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From ericm at lne.com Mon Oct 12 08:44:30 1998 From: ericm at lne.com (Eric Murray) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 23:44:30 +0800 Subject: IP: Different Approaches to Privacy Issue: OECD In-Reply-To: <3621BBDC.F59EA4AB@stud.uni-muenchen.de> Message-ID: <199810121509.IAA00564@slack.lne.com> Mok-Kong Shen writes: > > Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote: > > > > > 09 October 1998 > > > > OECD CONFERENCE ACCEPTS DIFFERENT APPROACHES TO > > PRIVACY ISSUE > > > Ottawa -- A conference of 29 industrialized countries for promoting > > electronic commerce has resolved a controversy between the United > > States and the European over Internet privacy by accepting both points > > of view. > > > > The United States contended industry should be left to manage the > > problem by itself, but the European Union had demanded a government > > regulatory approach. > > This 'sounds' like the US is opposed to having any crypto regulations!?? No, the US is opposed to any privacy regulations. "electronic commerce" now means so many things that you have to consider it to be a comment phrase that adds no meaning to the sentence in which it resides. -- Eric Murray N*Able Technologies www.nabletech.com (email: ericm at the sites lne.com or nabletech.com) PGP keyid:E03F65E5 From martinusl at hotmail.com Mon Oct 12 08:48:19 1998 From: martinusl at hotmail.com (Martinus Luther) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 23:48:19 +0800 Subject: Two Jims, Werner and Matt redefine socialism for their own ends Message-ID: <19981012150355.2145.qmail@hotmail.com> I never replied to any of the threads about about monopolies and freedom and government intervention because it was all so off-topic. But *really*. Saying Rosa Luxemburg wasn't a communist is like, totally off the wall: Werner Koch wrote: > "Die Freiheit des Einzelnen endet dort, > wo sie die Freiheit der Anderen einschr�nkt." > Rosa Luxemburg > The freedom of an individual ends, as it (the freedom) > limits the freedom of the others. > [This was one of the former Eastern Germany liberty > movements' slogans - and not a communists one] She was a founder-bloody-member of the German Communist party! A 100% died-in the wool far-left feminist socialist and CP member. Just because the state capitalists of the old Soviet Union subverted what remained of the German left and turned it into an instrument of foreign domination and repression doesn't mean that Rosa wasn't a real communist, or a real socialist. It was the apparatchiks and the beauraucrats who stole the name, not her. The US equivalent at the time might be Eugene Debs (or even Joe Hill - a prophet better honoured outside his own country - although he would probably be happier to be associated with anarchists than communists). Oh look, you've got me started. Jim Choate wrote "Another potential flaw in current economic theory" and more or less gave a definition of centrist, liberal socialism as it applies to business. The sort of "3rd way" views that the right-wing Labour government in UK might have had when they were out of office (being elected moved them even further to the right & the word "socialism" hardly applies any more). As Jim pointed out the practice of giving all the gain to the owners inevitably alienates the workers. But when Jim Burnes - much more naive poltically - said it was "socialist", Jim C. vehemently denied it! It seems that the *word* Socialist for you guys has become an insult, without substantive meaning, it isn't actually a label for socialism any more, when you want to talk about real socialism you have to find new words. Just like your bloodthirsty government made the word "communist" an insult in the 1940s and 50s - for McCarthy and Hoover and their friends "communist" didn't mean "communist" it meant "a person we don't like and intend to persecute". Which is maybe why Werner had to say Rosa wasn't a "communist". He had taken on board the US definition of "communist" as insulting and was no longer able to use the word about someone of whom he approved. And them Jim went and ruined all by writing: > Socialism is the belief that property is best managed and owned by > the government. Well, some people who have called themselves socialists have believed that. It was especially popular at the turn of the century. But many of us never believed that and almost none of us do now. > Fascism is the belief that property should be owned by private > individuals but managed by governments. No, not really. Fascism is a belief in the organic reality of the nation and in the priority of the nation's interests over the individuals. Fascism tends to glorify the army (socialists are usually suspicious of it) to ally with traditionalist elements in society (such as the aristocracy or the Roman church), to be racist and narrowly nationalist (Socialists are more likely to be into diversity, "rainbow coalitions" and to be internationalist, at lest in their rhetoric) and to be strongly authoritarian, especially about personal behaviour. > Capitalism is the belief that property should be owned and managed by the individual. In which case why is so much property owned and managed by companies? Why does our capitialist system result in so many working for others, rather than themselves? "Sargeant, where's mine?". Capitalism is a society where, overwhelmingly, property is owned and managed by *someone* *else*, usually some corporate body or faceless beauracracy. Whether that *someone* *else* is a limited company as it almost always is in the US, or a branch of government as it almost always was in the state-capitalist Soviet Union makes little difference. In fact, given the choice, and living in a representative democracy, I prefer the government-run business to the corporation-run one, especially if it is local government, because at least I have the vote. The two largest employers round where I live are a multinational bank and local government. I can vote for my councillors. Some of them I my neighbours. I can even meet them and have a beer with them. They might not do what I want but at least they have to pretend to listen. I'll never meet the CEO of that bank, or members of the board. They live in a different country from me. They have corporate jets and chauffer-driven cars and holiday on private islands. I'd probably have to be a millionaire to drink in the same bars as them. I dislike State control of business but it isn't half as bad as the faceless beauracracies of the banks, the phone companies, the big drug companies and so on. If there *was* a society where all property was owned and operated managed by individuals working for themselves it would be something like Belloc and Chesterton's "distributivism". The Biblical hope of "each man under his own vine and his own fig tree" or the 17th century English dream of "3 acres and a cow". Nearer to socialist anarchism than to anything else - nothing to do with capitalism at all. How many of you have a mortgate or pay rent? Capitalism means that someone else owns your house. How many of you work for a corporation? Capitalism means that someone else owns your job. Don't believe the bullshit about "private ownership". Capitalism means that someone else gets to own everything, the rest of us just get to work for them. But then Jim B. restored my faith in Jim C. my making the most childish statement yet: > You imply that the employees and employers interests are not the same. It is so pathetically obvious that they are *not* the same that it's hard to answer this without farting. Both employee and shareholder have an interest in paying for investment - the employee to keep the business going, and keep their job, the investor to raise the capital value. But after investment there is a pot of money to be split (or should be, if the company is viable). If it goes to shareholders in dividends, it doesn't go to workers in wages. If it goes to workers, it doesn't go to shareholders. A conflict of interest. Shareholders and managers have an interest in getting more work out of an employee for the same wages - whether by longer hours, or by automation or by training. A worker doesn't have that interest unless the extra production is returned to them in wages. Which it usually isn't, else where would profits come from? You Americans think you can defuse socialism by defining it as "state control of industry" (an idea which most of the left has rejected for 40 or 50 years now and a great many never accepted in the first place) and then accuse people of playing with definitions to make a point! Read : http://www.web.net/~newsoc/documents/Draper.html which says all this at greater length than I've got time for. It kicks off with a great quote from William Morris: "... I pondered all these things, and how men fight and lose the battle, and the thing that they fought for comes about in spite of their defeat, and when it comes turns out not to be what they meant, and other men have to fight for what they meant under another name..." You Yankee conservatives and your so-called libertarian (but, in practice, always almost authoritarian) friends may think you can get rid of socialism by defining it out of existence but it will rise again, even if it has to be under another name. And then Matt Gering replied to Ken Brown: >> A monopolisitic supplier of some good has a measure >> of political power. > Political power gums at the mean end of a gun, what political power do > monopolies have and how? And I was almost knocked over by the innocence, ignorance and naievety of such a statement. What political power do monopolies have? The power to deny you things you need to live. The power to deny you the means to earn a living. Political and economic power go hand in hand, as they always have. You can never have one without the other. If there is only one employer in a town then anyone born there must either leave or knuckle under. Remember "I sold my soul to the company stores". And what's this crap about the shareholders bearing the risk and the workers not? Is giving years of your life to some enterprise that then gets sold from under your feet and closed down not a risk? Is going donw a mine, not a risk, or to sea, or standing in front of a class of screaming kids, or working the late night shift in a burger bar, or driving a tractor, or cleaning the streets? You don't have to have any romantic workerist notions about the dignity of labour to realise that workers have a risk, and an interest. It two take similar jobs with different companies, both work for years, getting promoted, putting aside a pension, and one is suddenly made redundant, "let go", because the incompetance or whim of the bosses has ruined the company, hasn't that person lost something? Haven't they made an investment of their time, their thought, their life? Even an office worker, a beauraucrat, a clerk even a computer programmer (gasp!) brings their chips to put on the table. As GK Chesterton said it isn't the rich who have the greatest interest in society. They can always get on the next boat to Borneo. It is the ordinary folk who have to stay behind and clean up the mess the rich leave behind them. Unlike what Matt Gering said monopoly power *does* "come out of the barrel of a gun" - it is preserved by military and police authority. The forms of "ownership" under which most big businesses operate - things like the joint stock company, or limited liability - are not natural, they do not arise out of common human attributes (if they did they would be universal, whereas they didn't appear until they were invented in Holland or England less than 500 years ago). They are defined and controlled by the political process. Just like previous forms of ownership. The feudal system was not "natural", slavery is not "natural", the monastic ownership of huge tracts of land was not "natural", the king's right to appropriate land from intestate barons and minor heiresses was not "natural". The politics of the time - as always more or less run (but not entirely public opinion and tradition count for somethign even in a dictatorship or absolute monarchy) by the rich and the well-armed; but as always, in a state of tension between and various interest groups - the politics of the time defined what counted as ownership and backed it up with fire and the sword. A peasant could take his master to court and claim to be free (the longest court case in English history was the inhabitants of a village in Oxfordshire suing their lord for their freedom) but if the peasant tried to farm the lord's land - well what are men-at-arms for? And that's the same now. Great property, the ownership of land or shares, the ownership of the products of other people's work, to be disposed of at will as if it was a comb or a pen, is a social construction. Like money itself it exists because folk choose to believe that it exists. If we all stopped behaving as if great property existed, it would cease to exist. It is somethign that is in our minds, not nature. If shopkeepers lose respect for your dollar bills or your credit cards or your gold bars (other than as a useful and beautiful metal) you will not be able spend your wealth. That respect for money is buttressed by the state. If farmworkers lose their respect for the land rights of the owner and start planting crops in their own right, then the owner will no longer own - unless they can get the state, the police, the army, to help them. At this point so-called libertarians interject & say that the libertarian owner will defend his property with his own gun - but one man can't fight off 20 or 30 - they have to get their friends and neighbours to join in, or hire guards - and that's back to politics again. It may not be a "state" (although that's a matter of definition) but when people band together to defend what they see as their property it is certainly politics. That's what politics is, how people live together in numbers. The gunwankers may fancy themselves libertarians but really all they are pleading for is the right for them and their friends - their guards, their police - to oppress the workers. US so-called liberatarianism, hand in hand with the most blatant forms of capitalism, the instutionalised rascism of US society and the gunwanking fantasies of the pampered hooligans who call themselves "libertarians" would inevitably lead not to freedom from the State but to the imposition of hundreds or thousands of mini-States, each as brutal as the next. You would be better off in Albania or Burundi. Most assets in our society are owned by corporations, not by natural persons. They are socially and legally defined. The law - backed by the State, the police, the army and the courts - grants limited liability to shareholders. That might even be a good idea, it encourages investment and reduces the number of destitute capitalists begging on street corners. But it isn't at all the same thing as natural, ordianary property rights, and it is 100% political power and not far from Mao's gun barrel. Sometimes I have to remember that I am dealing with Americans here. You are all, well, most of you, hopelessly naive about politics, caught up in your little local squabbles. You are taking the mote out of you rleft eye and ignoring the beam in your own right eye. How can anyone take eriously a country that makes more fuss about where Clinton put his cigar than it did about Oliver North's terror squads buying weapons for mass-murder in Nicaragua with profits made form selling cocaine in the USA? And if Reagan *didn't* know then he should have been removed from office as medically unfit. And we *know* Bush knew. And the fucking Republicans voted him in afterwards. It's always the same with conservatives - they make libertarian noises but when push comes to shove they turn out to be the same old authoritarian ruling class who have been kicking us around for centuries. It's almost as bad in England. The Tory Party actually has *two* right wings: the big-business-friendly free traders (who tend to dominate when they are in power) and the blue-rinse backwoodsmen who are in to Queen and Country and tend to come to the fore when in opposition. The first sort would be Libertarians if they weren't Tories. The second sort would be fascists. They are the reason 17 years of Tory government made no real contribution to civil liberties in Britain. Whenever the Tories are scared of losing power they put away their free-trade and libertarian principles and out coem the bigots, the racists, the petty nationalists, the hounds baying for blood. Evil shits the lot of them. Eugene Debs is supposed to have said: "Too long have the workers of the world waited for some Moses to lead them out of bondage. He has not come; he never will come. I would not lead you out if I could; for if you could be led out, you could be led back again. I would have you make up your minds that there is nothing you cannot do for yourselves." That's authentic socialism. No leader will save us - if we have leaders we don't have freedom. No elite of gun-toting so-called libertarians will make the works a better place - thay are part of the problem, not part of the solution. No cypherpunk who thinks that the rest of us are worthless sheeple will ever get anywhere. People have to do it for themselves, together. It is a fallen world. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. No man is more fitted than any other to rule. All political power will lead to corruption, and all economic power is political power. To be rich is inevitably to be corrupted, not because the rich are greater sinners than the poor but because the rich have more power than the poor, and all are sinners and all will abuse power. We try to use democracy and the vote to protect ourselves against the abuse of political power by those who think they know better than us. We need to protect ourselves against the abuse of economic power in the same way. John the Ranter ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From jim at acm.org Mon Oct 12 09:47:04 1998 From: jim at acm.org (Jim Gillogly) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 00:47:04 +0800 Subject: FBI to inaugurate national DNA database Message-ID: <36222B37.1F29FA01@acm.org> SJMC retails a report from today's NYT: http://www.sjmercury.com/breaking/docs/084314.htm Executive summary: - Computer at secret location - Access limited to LE - All sex offenders get to contribute; felons in some States; other contributors not yet determined. -- Jim Gillogly Highday, 21 Winterfilth S.R. 1998, 16:12 12.19.5.10.14, 5 Ix 7 Yax, Seventh Lord of Night From listmaster at extensis.com Tue Oct 13 01:08:16 1998 From: listmaster at extensis.com (listmaster at extensis.com) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 01:08:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Quark-to-HTML ---- Extensis BeyondPress Message-ID: BeyondPress 4.0 The Award-winning Quark-to-HTML XTension from Extensis http://www.extensis.com/BeyondPress/buyonline - Convert QuarkXPress to HTML or DHTML with one click - New! 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It's faster than ever before and now, as a subscriber, you get 35 FREE new pics every day, plus over 100 more at carefully selected FREE sites we link to. This email is never sent unsolicited. Stuffed is the supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full instructions on unsubscribing are in every issue of Eureka! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- From jvb at ssds.com Mon Oct 12 11:39:39 1998 From: jvb at ssds.com (Jim Burnes) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 02:39:39 +0800 Subject: Two Jims, Werner and Matt redefine socialism for their own ends In-Reply-To: <19981012150355.2145.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Oct 1998, Martinus Luther wrote: > I never replied to any of the threads about about monopolies and freedom > and government intervention because it was all so off-topic. But > *really*. Saying Rosa Luxemburg wasn't a communist is like, totally off > the wall: > > > But when Jim Burnes - much more naive poltically - said it was Ahh! It begins -- typical socialist argumentation. When you run out of rational ideas, begin ad hominem attacks (I think I counted at least five). I don't have time to rebut this now. I must report my hours that I slaved away under last week (damn corporation -- controlling my life -- i'm being opressed). I'll take it up later this afternoon. jim From distributor at angelfire.com Mon Oct 12 12:01:14 1998 From: distributor at angelfire.com (distributor at angelfire.com) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 03:01:14 +0800 Subject: Seeking Commission Based Sales Representatives and Distributors Message-ID: <199810121841.LAA03234@cyberpass.net> We are seeking commission-based sales representatives and distributors in your geographic market to spearhead the national roll-out for our Consumer Smart Product line. Whether you are a student or a senior citizen, everyone is qualified to earn extra income within our company. Could you use extra income? Are you tired of get rich schemes? If you can answer YES to these questions, then this is the perfect opportunity for you. This is not a pyramid or get rich quick scheme. This is a serious, legitmate business opportunity. We offer Consumer Smart Products at prices everyone can afford! Our products are useful for everyone and they make perfect gifts! All our products emphasize "Quality, Function and Value" For additional information, please reply to this email with more info in your subject heading. Only serious applicants need apply. Thank You From nobody at replay.com Mon Oct 12 12:22:29 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 03:22:29 +0800 Subject: Gates v 2.0 Message-ID: <199810121902.VAA13050@replay.com> Besides the FBI's DNA database, in today's (Oct. 12th, 1998) New York Times is a John Markoff commentary " Memo Offers a Glimpse of Gates 2.0" about a 14 page memo written by Bill Gates in Sept., entitled "The Era Ahead". In this memo, Gates "describes a new system to be called Megaserver which will provide computer users with access to their personal information and electronic mail wherever they have an Internet connection." Holy Hotmail Batman! That Bill is right on top of things! Further along, the article paraphases Bill that that the operating system "will play an increasing role in protecting intellectual piracy against from data piracy by tracking the use of information and preventing illicit copying." I can see my future now, logging into Windows 2000 with the handy keyboard DNA sampler. However, all of my software is registered to my dog. Here boy... From nobody at replay.com Mon Oct 12 13:13:27 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 04:13:27 +0800 Subject: Gates v 2.0 In-Reply-To: <199810121902.VAA13050@replay.com> Message-ID: <199810121942.VAA17805@replay.com> > I can see my future now, logging into Windows 2000 with the handy > keyboard DNA sampler. ROTFL! Can you imagine how disastrous wil be a DNA sampler designed by the company that can't even produce a usable text editor? From xena at best.com Mon Oct 12 13:54:37 1998 From: xena at best.com (Xena - Warrior Princess) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 04:54:37 +0800 Subject: DNA Message-ID: Another example of science fiction that probably should have been kept as fiction. FBI to inaugurate national DNA database NEW YORK (Reuters) - The FBI will open a new and improved national DNA database Tuesday that will be used to help stop serial rapists and other repeat criminals, the New York Times reported Monday. (Full story) http://www.sjmercury.com/breaking/docs/084314.htm From rah at shipwright.com Mon Oct 12 13:59:04 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 04:59:04 +0800 Subject: Hidden WebTV signatures Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text From: Pablo Calamera To: "'Robert Hettinga'" , "'mac-crypto at vmeng.com'" Subject: RE: Hidden WebTV signatures Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:46:37 -0700 Yes. Well, the crypto part anyways ;-) > -----Original Message----- > From: mac-crypto at vmeng.com [mailto:mac-crypto at vmeng.com]On Behalf Of > Robert Hettinga > Sent: Sunday, October 11, 1998 8:08 AM > To: mac-crypto at vmeng.com > Subject: Hidden WebTV signatures > > > Pablo? > > Did *you* do this??? > > :-) > > Cheers, > Bob Hettinga > > --- begin forwarded text > > > From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) > To: cypherpunks at cyberpass.net > Subject: Hidden WebTV signatures > X-Authenticated: relaymail v0.9 on cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz > Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 03:29:04 (NZDT) > Sender: owner-cypherpunks at cyberpass.net > Precedence: first-class > Reply-To: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) > X-Loop: cypherpunks at cyberpass.net > > For those of you who don't read sci.crypt, Robert Ames > has > posted an article in which he observes that all WebTV posts contain an > X-WebTV-Signature: line containing base64-encoded data. For > samples of > WebTV-generated posts, try the alt.weemba newsgroup, which is > filled with > WebTV-user drool (caution: remember to employ protection when > exposting your > mind to the content of the messages). Some samples: > > X-WebTV-Signature: 1 > > ETAsAhQDqtur/jfleJ2CDOnNrVoeyALEQAIUOQyCBbzjx5HHfxeMERDgCjztXOU= > X-WebTV-Signature: 1 > > ETAtAhUAmCCzQt+Tqt6fNX+L9+gDCECaqQkCFA0YCPz5tk85mUgq7iX/u4vWvOgG > > These decode into ASN.1-encoded DSA signatures, eg: > > 1 30 45: SEQUENCE { > 3 02 21: INTEGER > : 00 98 20 B3 42 DF 93 AA DE 9F 35 7F 8B F7 E8 03 > : 08 40 9A A9 09 > 26 02 20: INTEGER > : 0D 18 08 FC F9 B6 4F 39 99 48 2A EE 25 FF BB 8B > : D6 BC E8 06 > : } > > for the second one. The key isn't included in the header, > presumably the > @webtv.net address can be tied to the hardware which contains > some hardcoded > DSA key. I wonder if WebTV users know they're signing each > message they send? > > Peter. > > > --- end forwarded text > > > ----------------- > Robert A. Hettinga > Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism > 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA > "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, > [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to > experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' > > --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From wburton at pipestream.com Tue Oct 13 05:06:17 1998 From: wburton at pipestream.com (Walter Burton) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 05:06:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: _PI_ was crap, but... Message-ID: <013D438ED22ED2119F630060082F763C08A760@kenny.pipestream.com> It did inspire me to consider an interesting line of thought: Maybe pi is the cyphertext and the 216-digit "Holy Unspeakable Name of God" is the Vegenere-ish key. I'll get to work and see if I can crack the message by lunchtime. \\/alter From mgering at ecosystems.net Mon Oct 12 14:54:21 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 05:54:21 +0800 Subject: Two Jims, Werner and Matt redefine socialism for their own ends Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A47@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com> > The two largest employers round where I live are a > multinational bank and local government. I can vote > for my councillors. Some of them I my neighbours. So why can't your neighbors run a bank? > something like Belloc and Chesterton's "distributivism". Distribute what and created by whom? Need I point out the obvious fallacy that wealth is a static sum. It is not, wealth must be *created* before it exists to plunder and share. Abstract wealth and divorce it from the creator and you eliminate the motive to create. You can only live from plundered wealth so long before you slip into oblivion (see the Soviet Union). > How many of you have a mortgate or pay rent? Capitalism > means that someone else owns your house. No, capitalism allows you to leverage your future productive capacity to acquire capital assets you wouldn't otherwise have. That is your choice, and your benefit. > How many of you work for a corporation? Capitalism means > that someone else owns your job. No, capitalism allows you to trade your labor instead of your product. That is your choice, and your benefit. > And then Matt Gering replied to Ken Brown: > > >> A monopolisitic supplier of some good has a measure > >> of political power. > > > Political power comes at the mean end of a gun, what > > political power do monopolies have and how? > And I was almost knocked over by the innocence, ignorance and > naievety of such a statement. The question was not rhetorical. Do you care to answer? > What political power do monopolies have? The power > to deny you things you need to live. How? By denying the ability of others to supply them. By denying your right to create them. By (legitimately) denying your ability to steal them. > The power to deny you the means to earn a living. How? By denying your ability to create and dispose of your own wealth. By denying you the right to freely trade your labor or the right of others to purchase that labor. By denying your ability to accumulate capital. > If there is only one employer in a town then anyone born > there must either leave or knuckle under. Staying is a restraint that is self-imposed (provided government does not restrict freedom of movement). Why is there only one employer? > Unlike what Matt Gering said monopoly power *does* "come > out of the barrel of a gun" On the contrary I clearly stated it did. But if the monopoly does not have guns itself, whose guns are they? > - it is preserved by military and police authority. Exactly. So eliminate those guns. > Like money itself it exists because folk choose to believe > that it exists. If we all stopped behaving as if great > property existed, it would cease to exist. "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." -- Philip K. Dick Fine, stop believing in money, no one is forcing you to. Did it work? Oh, you mean *everyone* has to stop believing in it? Sounds like mass delusion to me, and metaphysical subjectivism. The fact that something exists or not is clearly independent of whether anyone believes in it or not. Money is a symbol. The valuation of any given monetary system is entirely irrelevant to the existence of that which money represents, and the failure of Fiat currencies does not abolish the existence of what they had represented. What is the root of money? http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/money.html > That respect for money is buttressed by the state. Manipulation of the money supply by the state is tool for theft by the state and denial of economic reality. It had consequences in 1929, and it will again. Matt From xasper8d at lobo.net Mon Oct 12 15:20:10 1998 From: xasper8d at lobo.net (X) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 06:20:10 +0800 Subject: DNA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001bdf62a$1a05f7e0$8a2580d0@xasper8d> A DNA Database can actually be used for many nifty things that will improve the lives of taxpayers and consumers alike. For example, if we only had the resources to sample DNA from every American, then cross reference that DNA with, say, their CREDIT REPORT, then we'd know what type of genetic make-up has a predisposition toward not paying their bills and we'd save so many untold billions of dollars by not lending those genetic deadbeats any more money. Interest rates would plummet! Plus, if you had the _right_ DNA, they could just approve you on the spot! If we had a DNA sample of all world citizens, then the pesky problem of the whole "it was either O.J. that was the killer or there's a one in five billion chance it was someone else" would simply disappear. And, just think of the social improvements: why, if you forget to ask the name of last nights suitor, you can scrape some DNA samples off the end of your cat-o-nine-tails, slip it into your M.S. DNA Reader(tm) and instantly add them to your outlook addressbook. (That is, if they have good credit, natch.) Man, my verbosity gene is in overdrive today! X ~> -----Original Message----- ~> From: owner-cypherpunks at minder.net ~> [mailto:owner-cypherpunks at minder.net]On Behalf Of Xena - Warrior ~> Princess ~> Sent: Monday, October 12, 1998 2:20 PM ~> To: cypherpunks at toad.com ~> Subject: DNA ~> ~> ~> ~> ~> Another example of science fiction that probably should have been kept as ~> fiction. ~> ~> ~> FBI to inaugurate national DNA database ~> ~> NEW YORK (Reuters) - The FBI will open a new and improved ~> national DNA database Tuesday that will be used to help ~> stop serial rapists and other repeat criminals, the New ~> York Times reported Monday. ~> ~> (Full story) ~> http://www.sjmercury.com/breaking/docs/084314.htm ~> ~> From paulmerrill at acm.org Mon Oct 12 15:43:59 1998 From: paulmerrill at acm.org (Paul H. Merrill) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 06:43:59 +0800 Subject: What Really Happened Message-ID: <3622A97B.3D09272C@acm.org> What Really Happened Some time ago Mr. Clinton was hosting a state dinner when at the last minute his regular cook took ill and they had to get a replacement at short notice. The fellow arrived and turned out to be a very grubby looking man named Jon. The President voiced his concerns to his chief of staff but was told that this was the best they could do at such short notice. Just before the meal, the President noticed the cook sticking his fingers in the soup to taste it and again he complained to the chief of staff about the cook, but he was told that this man was supposed to be a very good chef. The meal went okay but the President was sure that the soup tasted a little off, and by the time dessert came, he was starting to have stomach cramps and nausea. It was getting worse and worse till finally he had to excuse himself from the state dinner to look for the bathroom. Passing through the kitchen, he caught sight of the cook, Jon, scratching his rear end and this made him feel even worse. By now he was desperately ill with violent cramps and was so disorientated that he couldn't remember which door led to the bathroom. He was on the verge of passing out from the pain when he finally found a door that opened and as he undid his trousers and ran in, he realised to his horror that he had stumbled into Monica Lewinsky's office with his trousers around his knees. As he was just about to pass out, she bent over him and heard her president whisper in a barely audible voice, "sack my cook". And that is how the whole misunderstanding occurred. From vznuri at netcom.com Mon Oct 12 15:52:50 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 06:52:50 +0800 Subject: IP: Tracking: Machines to Check Airline Bags Mostly Idle, Report Says Message-ID: <199810122228.PAA05971@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Tracking: Machines to Check Airline Bags Mostly Idle, Report Says Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 08:03:44 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com Source: New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/news/washpol/unused-bomb-detectors.html October 11, 1998 Machines to Check Airline Bags Mostly Idle, Report Says By MATTHEW L. WALD WASHINGTON -- The Federal Aviation Administration has spent more than $122 million on machines to detect bombs in checked baggage, but those machines that have been installed sit idle for most of the day, according to investigators from the Department of Transportation. The machines, which cost $1.3 million each to buy and install, are supposed to be capable of handling 225 bags an hour, but of 13 that were audited by investigators, nine handled fewer than 200 bags a day, according to a report released on Friday. Some got so little use that the operators could not maintain proficiency in running them, investigators said. "At some airports, they're sitting relatively unused," Lawrence Weintrob, an assistant inspector general of the Transportation Department, said in a telephone interview. "Some airports that are using them are using them rarely, or process relatively few bags through them." But Cathal Flynn, assistant administrator of the FAA for civil aviation security, said the average number of bags processed through each machine was rising sharply as airlines gained experience. Flynn and airline representatives said that part of the problem was that the computerized system for choosing which passengers' bags get scanned was still developing, and would not be fully implemented until the end of the year. "We haven't ironed out all the kinks in the process," said Susan Rork, managing director of security at the Air Transport Association, the trade group of the major airlines. The computerized system singles out individuals about whom there is too little information to conclude that they are not a threat, officials say. It also draws a sample from the group judged not to be a threat, to increase the chance that a terrorist would be caught, and to make the system fairer, Flynn said. One problem, he said, is that if the system were changed to require that a larger number of passengers have their bags scrutinized, then at peak periods people would be delayed so long they would miss their flights. "If you get people fuming at a line, that's not good either," Flynn said. That, he said, would probably discourage machine operators from doing their jobs right. And delays, he said, would damage public acceptance of security measures. In written comments responding to the report, the FAA said that the agency would "pursue a more coherent strategy with air carriers to ramp-up to a higher level of use." However, the agency said, it would be "many years" before technology allowed screening of all bags. Auditors also said that the machines in use could handle only about half as many bags as they did in lab tests, partly because they sound false alarms far more when in use at airports. Each false alarm requires time to resolve. (All alarms so far have been false, officials said, because no bombs have been detected.) The machines' higher false alarm rate is "probably a reason why they don't use it as often as they should," Weintrob said. Fifty-nine of the machines have been installed so far; plans are to have 74 in place by the end of the year, he said. Officials of airports where the machines are installed declined to comment and asked not to be identified. Under FAA rules, airport operators are responsible for various aspects of security, but not for screening bags. That responsibility falls to the airlines. Copyright 1998 The New York Times Company ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From wburton at pipestream.com Tue Oct 13 06:53:46 1998 From: wburton at pipestream.com (Walter Burton) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 06:53:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: _PI_ was crap, but... Message-ID: <013D438ED22ED2119F630060082F763C08A783@kenny.pipestream.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 It did inspire me to consider an interesting line of thought: Maybe pi is the cyphertext and the 216-digit "Holy Unspeakable Name of God" is the Vegenere-ish key. I'll get to work and see if I can crack the message by lunchtime. \\/alter -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.0 for non-commercial use Comment: For my public key, send a msg with "public key" in the subj. iQA/AwUBNiNatI0Llo1Bf1gWEQLIfACguQpfpZLC3cT0Iw/vj/ncDlHWcPIAn3W5 ZoMzjfYNl4sD+J2sqhtZ6fwU =GZcu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From vznuri at netcom.com Mon Oct 12 15:53:49 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 06:53:49 +0800 Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.30: U.S. lawmakers approve major wiretap law change Message-ID: <199810122228.PAA05982@netcom13.netcom.com> From: "ama-gi ISPI" Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.30: U.S. lawmakers approve major wiretap law change Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 00:08:52 -0700 To: ISPI Clips 5.30: U.S. lawmakers approve major wiretap law change News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) Monday October 12, 1998 ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This From: Reuters News Service, (via Yahoo) October 8, 1998 http://biz.yahoo.com/ U.S. lawmakers approve major wiretap law change (adds Senate approval, FBI comment) http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/981008/b16.html By Aaron Pressman WASHINGTON, Oct 8 (Reuters) - Without debate or notice, U.S. lawmakers on Thursday approved a proposal long sought by the FBI that would dramatically expand wiretapping authority -- an idea Congress openly rejected three years ago. The provision, allowing law enforcement agencies more easily to tap any telephone used by or near a target individual instead of getting authorization to tap specific phones, was added to the Intelligence Authorization Conference report during a closed door meeting and filed with the House and Senate on Monday. The conference report was easily adopted by the House on Wednesday, despite an objection to the wiretapping provision from Georgia Republican Bob Barr, and by the Senate on Thursday. Neither the House nor the Senate had included the provision, known as roving wiretap authority, in their versions of the intelligence bill. But lawmakers drafting the conference report, essentially a reconciliation of the two versions, decided to include it. Civil liberties groups were outraged by the expanded wiretapping authority and the process of adding the provision in secret. ``Roving wiretaps are a major expansion of current government surveillance power,'' said Alan Davidson, staff counsel at the Center for Democracy and Technology in Washington. ``To take a controversial provision that affects the fundamental constitutional liberties of the people and pass it behind closed doors shows a shocking disregard for our democratic process.'' FBI officials said they needed to be able to get roving wiretap authority more easily to catch criminals taking advantage of new telecommunications technologies. ``This provision is just a refinement of the existing wiretap statute,'' said Barry Smith, supervisory special agent in the FBI's congressional affairs office. ``It's just a matter of ensuring we have the means to effectively pursue these violent criminals and terrorists.'' Under current rules, law enforcement agencies seeking roving wiretap authority from a judge must prove that an individual is switching telephones specifically for the purpose of evading a surveillance. The standard has been difficult to meet and kept the number of roving wiretaps approved to a minimum, a telephone industry official said. Without roving authority, police must get permission from a judge for each telephone line to be tapped. Under the change approved this week, the police would need show only that an individual's ``actions could have the effect of thwarting interception from a specific facility.'' The change removed the need to consider the target's motive in using different telephones. Copyright � 1998 Reuters Limited. --------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------ ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research and educational purposes only. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases (up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message "Please enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to: ISPIClips at ama-gi.com . The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia (Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no government funding and takes a global perspective. ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research into electronic, personal and financial privacy with a view toward helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy. But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and generous financial support. If you value in the ISPI Clips service or if you are concerned about the erosion of your privacy in general, won't you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI Clips Supporter" or by taking out an institute Membership? We gratefully accept all contributions: Less than $60 ISPI Clips Supporter $60 - $99 Primary ISPI Membership (1 year) $100 - $300 Senior ISPI Membership (2 years) More than $300 Executive Council Membership (life) Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership. For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com . We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to any third party. ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Mon Oct 12 15:54:40 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 06:54:40 +0800 Subject: IP: Secret Marine training mission startles residents Message-ID: <199810122228.PAA05993@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Secret Marine training mission startles residents Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:12:42 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com Source: Greensboro News & Record (N.Carolina) http://www.greensboro.com/nronline/news/helicopters9.htm Secret Marine training mission startles residents 10-9-98 By ANDREA BALL, Staff Writer Fisher Park resident Helen Ullrich was resting in bed when she heard the roar of the helicopters. The house shook. The windows rattled. Her first thought: A plane is going to crash. Her second: Where's it going to land? "For the first minute or two, that's what it was like," she said. "Just fear." Greensboro residents shuddered and gawked at the skies Wednesday night while nine military helicopters unexpectedly swarmed above their houses. The aircraft were involved in a two-hour training mission by the 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit at Marine Corps Base Camp Lejeune, said Capt. Bill Darrenkamp, public affairs officer for Camp Lejeune. The helicopters -- a Huey, two Cobras, two Super Stallions and four Sea Knights -- flew from Onslow Bay to practice long-range raids, Darrenkamp said. The local training session stretched from about 9:30 to 11:30 p.m. The Greensboro Police Department agreed to the mission about a month ago, Darrenkamp said. Nearly 200 families in the Huffine Mill Road area were told of the training a few hours before it began. The rest of the city was clueless. And that's the way the Marines wanted it, said Capt. Sammy Bell of the Greensboro Police Department. "We couldn't have notified the public on it because if we had, everyone and their brother would be out there trying to watch it," Bell said. Darrenkamp said the mission was kept quiet because Marines wanted the training to be as realistic as possible. They also wanted to keep crowds away from the planes when they landed because they can kick up dirt and debris, he said. The nine helicopters flew from outside Jacksonville to Piedmont Triad International Airport to refuel. Then they landed at the old Mt. Zion School on Huffine Mill Road, where 50 to 60 Marines enacted an invasion of enemy headquarters. They set off smoke grenades, shot blanks with their M-16s and blew off a door specially installed for the military activity. But the covert training alarmed people throughout the city. Although the helicopters were often 400 feet from the ground, Darrenkamp said they dipped much lower while landing. Some residents complained that the helicopters barely missed their houses. "That (height) was cleared, according to the military, by the FAA," said Capt. David Wray of the Greensboro Police Department. "We were assured that every safety measure would be taken." Residents in neighborhoods throughout the city -- including downtown, Lindley Park, Old Starmount, Forest Oaks and Lake Daniel -- heard or saw the deafening craft. And then the guessing began. Was it a crashing plane? An air search for an escaped convict? One of those medical helicopters? Brien Deutermanand her husband Bill were watching television in their Old Starmount home when they heard the helicopters. The couple, seated on their couch, whipped around to peer out their picture window. A plane was in trouble, they guessed. They thought of the recent accident in which a small plane crashed into a home in Winston-Salem. "It really startled us," Brien Deuterman said. "After what happened in Winston-Salem a few months ago, that was the first thing that ran through our minds." Helen Ullrich rushed outside her home on Isabel Street to find her pajama-clad neighbors standing in the street, squinting into the sky at the passing helicopters. Scared children clung to their parents, while adults slowly relaxed. Then came the jokes. The government is scaring us out of our houses to get an accurate census. If we're in danger, why are we all standing in the middle of the road? "Once we realized we were out of danger, we were just laughing about it," Ullrich said. Copyright � Greensboro News & Record, Inc. ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From rah at shipwright.com Mon Oct 12 16:03:36 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 07:03:36 +0800 Subject: DNA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 5:48 PM -0400 on 10/12/98, X wrote: > Man, my verbosity gene is in overdrive today! Nope. You've just been reading too many, um, crypto-statist, Gore Vidal novels. :-). Cheers, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From pooh at efga.org Mon Oct 12 16:14:13 1998 From: pooh at efga.org (Robert A. Costner) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 07:14:13 +0800 Subject: IP: Tracking: Machines to Check Airline Bags Mostly Idle, Report Says In-Reply-To: <199810122228.PAA05971@netcom13.netcom.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981012185102.0347e50c@rboc.net> At 03:28 PM 10/12/98 -0700, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote: > >From: believer at telepath.com >Subject: IP: Tracking: Machines to Check Airline Bags Mostly Idle, Report Says >Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 08:03:44 -0500 >To: believer at telepath.com > >Auditors also said that the machines in use could handle only about half >as many bags as they did in lab tests, partly because they sound false >alarms far more when in use at airports. Each false alarm requires time to >resolve. (All alarms so far have been false, officials said, because no >bombs have been detected.) Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but including the TWA flight that precipitated this mess, isn't it true that for the last 20 years or so no bombs have been known to get onto planes in the US even without the bomb detectors? -- Robert Costner Phone: (770) 512-8746 Electronic Frontiers Georgia mailto:pooh at efga.org http://www.efga.org/ run PGP 5.0 for my public key From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Mon Oct 12 16:15:48 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 07:15:48 +0800 Subject: Two Jims, Werner and Matt redefine socialism for their own en (fwd) Message-ID: <199810122259.RAA03743@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: Matthew James Gering > Subject: RE: Two Jims, Werner and Matt redefine socialism for their own en > ds > Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:24:16 -0700 > > multinational bank and local government. I can vote > > for my councillors. Some of them I my neighbours. > > So why can't your neighbors run a bank? The same reason most people can't. Funny thing is, it's the same reason a lot of bankers can't run banks. > Distribute what and created by whom? Need I point out the obvious > fallacy that wealth is a static sum. Interesting. I don't see that particular axiom in my notes....what I see is the assumption that markets and their growth are unlimited. Pesky things like ecological impacts, social impacts, waste processing, etc. are no big percentage (as in completely ignored). > Abstract wealth and divorce it > from the creator and you eliminate the motive to create. An interesting but obtuse means of stating that economics are a result of human action and not a fundamental force in nature. > > And then Matt Gering replied to Ken Brown: > > > > >> A monopolisitic supplier of some good has a measure > > >> of political power. > > > > > Political power comes at the mean end of a gun, what > > > political power do monopolies have and how? > > > And I was almost knocked over by the innocence, ignorance and > > naievety of such a statement. > > The question was not rhetorical. Do you care to answer? Political power is actualy a much broader sword than Marx (and yourself apparently) would paint. It's invovled in such basic actions as saying thank you and holding a door open for somebody. The political aspect is a fundamental belief that what goes around comes around. If I, and enough other people walk around opening doors for each other, do this then when I can't open the door somebody likely will. It's a gamble in the basic nature of humans, to do the same basic things within the same social environment the same basic way. Things like economies of scale have fundamental bases in these sorts of psychological insights. Those comparable behaviours very seldom involve violence as a motive, let alone a method. People, all people, behave badly when violence is involved. Usualy violence is involved in creating a behaviour of compliance that runs contrary to some fundamental behaviour of the individual(s) or on the overt attempt to steal or kill (murder is incorrect because it implies a social structure that doesn't actualy exist at this fundamental level). > > What political power do monopolies have? The power > > to deny you things you need to live. > > How? By denying the ability of others to supply them. By denying your > right to create them. By (legitimately) denying your ability to steal > them. Monopolies have the power to decide *YOUR* tomorrow. It isn't theirs at the cost of a simple profit. > > - it is preserved by military and police authority. And social institutions. > Exactly. So eliminate those guns. Beeeep. We're so SORRY (not)!!!! That's absolutely the WRONG answer EVER. > "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't > go away." -- Philip K. Dick > > Fine, stop believing in money, no one is forcing you to. Did it work? > Oh, you mean *everyone* has to stop believing in it? Sounds like mass > delusion to me, That is EXACTLY what I've been trying to say all along! Economics is a social institution that has fundamental roots in the base behaviours of the animals involved. > What is the root of money? > http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/money.html Hunger. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From wcd at Adobe.COM Mon Oct 12 17:13:36 1998 From: wcd at Adobe.COM (Adobe Systems) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 08:13:36 +0800 Subject: Your New Adobe Customer Number Message-ID: <199810122339.QAA19114@mail-sea.sea.Adobe.COM> Thank you for registering with Adobe Systems, Inc. Your new Online Customer ID is: 9062604113320310 The PIN you entered and confirmed has been encrypted and stored with your registration information. Please remember your Customer ID and PIN for the next time you login as an Adobe Customer on www.adobe.com. From news at quake.connectfree.net Tue Oct 13 08:44:01 1998 From: news at quake.connectfree.net (news at quake.connectfree.net) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 08:44:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199810131545.QAA03849@swampthing.connectfree.net> Connect FREE Newsletter October 98 Welcome to Connect Free, and thank you for joining our service. We hope you find our Second Newsletter informative. September's Newsletter can be viewed on our web site at the bottom of the FREE Internet page. FreeServe & Dixons Now we all know that Free Internet access is going to be the norm very shortly and users of the Internet like yourselves would like to have several connections to the Internet from different ISP's and of course you will choose the service that offers the best performance. With the launch of Dixons Freeserve service some of our users have taken the decision to have a second account - great idea. 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Our News Server address is: news.connectfree.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Change of Details If you need to change your personal details i.e. email address etc, then you will soon be able to do this via a web page on the Connect FREE website. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Information Line If you do need to contact Connect FREE by phone or email please ensure that you provide your LoginID & Password with every communication. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Improvements Connect FREE would like to hear from you, if there is any way in which you think we could improve our service to you, or add more content to the Connect FREE website. It is Connect FREE policy not to send unwanted rubbish by e-mail or junk advertising by any other means. All we ask is that you receive our monthly newsletter informing you of any changes to the service and any new service that may come available which you may benefit from. Contact us at info at connectfree.net or Telephone 0702 115 2525 No Catches, No Gimmicks, Just Connect FREE From hua at teralogic-inc.com Mon Oct 12 17:50:08 1998 From: hua at teralogic-inc.com (Ernest Hua) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 08:50:08 +0800 Subject: FBI to inaugurate national DNA database Message-ID: <018a01bdf63e$30a3fa60$4164a8c0@mve21> I think it would be a very bad idea for civil liberties groups to come out 100% against this. So far all they have said is that they intend to log all convicted criminals. If the C.L. groups complain about that, then it would be too easy for the FBI to turn around and say, "Geez! These guys complain about anything and everything we do!" It would serve the civil liberties causes (and in particular, the crypto cause) much better to view this with suspicion and caution and strongly point out that, while this, on its face, looks okay, the FBI have had a perfect record of always pushing for more surveillence and more record tracking than they previously promise to hold to. Secondly, it is much more important to focus law makers on the FBI's "constantly pushing for everything they can get away with while talking BALANCE" behavior than to nickle and dime every law favoring the FBI. They must be shown for their blatant lies rather than for their gray area behavior. Otherwise, it's a very very tough battle. Ern -----Original Message----- From: Jim Gillogly To: cypherpunks at cyberpass.net Date: Monday, October 12, 1998 9:31 AM Subject: FBI to inaugurate national DNA database > >SJMC retails a report from today's NYT: > >http://www.sjmercury.com/breaking/docs/084314.htm > >Executive summary: > >- Computer at secret location >- Access limited to LE >- All sex offenders get to contribute; felons in some States; > other contributors not yet determined. > >-- > Jim Gillogly > Highday, 21 Winterfilth S.R. 1998, 16:12 > 12.19.5.10.14, 5 Ix 7 Yax, Seventh Lord of Night > From rah at shipwright.com Mon Oct 12 18:09:02 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 09:09:02 +0800 Subject: FYI: More on WebTV security Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text From: Pablo Calamera To: "'mac-crypto at vmeng.com'" Subject: FYI: More on WebTV security Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 16:34:14 -0700 Sender: Precedence: Bulk Don't know if you've seen this, but we were recently granted a license to ship 128-bit RC4 in our product. No key recovery, no key escrow. Here's the fluff: http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/1998/Oct98/EncryptionPR.htm --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From randrent at prodigy.net Mon Oct 12 18:11:34 1998 From: randrent at prodigy.net (randrent) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 09:11:34 +0800 Subject: #1 HOME BASED BUSINESS TWO YEARS RUNNING!!! Message-ID: <419.436080.86392454randrent@prodigy.net> Forbes Magazine calls this the #1 home-based business two years running. All you have to do is advertise the 800# and your code#. They do the rest! Earn $100 Fast Start Bonuses for referrals, Plus Residual Bonuses! Fast Start Bonuses are paid every Friday! 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From nobody at replay.com Mon Oct 12 19:32:44 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 10:32:44 +0800 Subject: Message-ID: <199810130210.EAA25237@replay.com> paranoid, or enlightened? :) At 03:55 PM 10/10/98 , you wrote: >~> PS. there is someone on this list who knows who >~> i am. yes there is someone who knows who anon >~> posters are. we fucking hate you and am waiting >~> for you to take the trap and we will reveal your >~> identity scumbag. > From squirrel5 at nym.alias.net Mon Oct 12 21:15:18 1998 From: squirrel5 at nym.alias.net (Secret Squirrel) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 12:15:18 +0800 Subject: Message-ID: Anonymous wrote: > > > >HOW MUCH CODE DID 'CYPHERPUNK' TIM MAY EVER WRITE? > > > > How much code have you ever written? > > A DECENT AMOUNT. THE CRYPTO APPS I CREATED ARE SOMEWHAT UNIQUE, > SO IF I MENTIONED THEM YOU MIGHT FIGURE OUT WHO I AM. Did you rewrite your keyboard driver at the same time? 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Click on the hyper link below to find out more about the many benefits of LIBIDO PLUS, the $500 in free money saving coupons and our unbelieveable guarantee. http://www.libidomax.com ************************************************************************ This Message is intended for the Health Conscious Individual. If we have reached you by mistake please accept our apologies. If you wish to be deleted from our database, please reply with the subject "R emove" ************************************************************************ � From edsmith at IntNet.net Tue Oct 13 16:05:53 1998 From: edsmith at IntNet.net (Edwin E. Smith) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 16:05:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Between the Lines Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19981013181653.007e7a80@mailhost.IntNet.net> Between the Lines Joseph Farah Disarm the BATF Another day, another debacle for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. This time, the scene is not Waco, Texas, or Ruby Ridge, Idaho, but Taft, California -- another hotbed of "anti-government activity." According to the federal government's own account, the BATF began an investigation into illegal firearms sales by people espousing anti-government rhetoric three or four years ago with an undercover agent allegedly making an illegal purchase of a .22-caliber pistol. It ended last week with one of the three targets of the federal government probe dead in a highly unusual -- and, yes, improbable -- incident. The official story goes something like this: Two BATF agents, a Kern County sheriff's deputy and Sgt. Ed Whiting of the Taft Police Department attempted to take into custody on illegal firearms trafficking charges, Darryl Howell, a 45-year-old grandfather and owner of a surplus store that sold, among other things, guns and ammunition. A struggle between the BATF agents and Howell ensued. The cops say he broke away from them, lunged for a .45-caliber handgun, put it into his mouth and fired a single shot. Whiting, the story goes, had become temporarily distracted during the scuffle. When he heard the single shot, he instinctively aimed his gun at Howell and fired three more shots into his already, presumably, lifeless body. Now, if you believe that, I have an intercontinental ballistic missile I'd like to sell you. I'm not a cop, and I've never played one on TV. But I have reported on enough crime stories in my day to know when one stinks to high heaven. And this one smells like a cattle ranch on a windless, summer day in California's Central Valley. Let me see if I have this straight. Four cops, one "suspect." This wanted outlaw -- so dangerous he's been under scrutiny of federal law enforcement for nearly four years -- is confronted not in his home, not on his lunch break, not on his way to work or after he locks up, but during the workday in a store loaded with firearms. Even though he's not accused of being on PCP or any other drugs, he cannot be physically subdued by four officers. They are unable to persuade him to come along peacefully or handcuff him involuntarily. Instead, he is permitted by these highly trained law enforcement professionals to grab one of his guns. But they don't shoot him right away. Oh no. They allow him to pick up the handgun, bring it all the way up to his mouth and pull the trigger. Only then, we are told, does one of the officers, who wasn't paying attention, pump the desperado full of lead. Do these BATF clowns ever learn? Either these guys are Washington's answer to the Keystone Kops, or we have on the loose a cold, calculating, professional, Gestapo-like killing machine designed to root out dissidents exercising their Second Amendment rights and blow them away without the messiness of trials and due process. How many times does America need to see such tragedies before it wakes up and disarms these dangerous, out-of-control, gun-slinging hitmen? The inmates are running the asylum, folks. Beam me up. There is no allegation made by any of these cowboys that Howell or any others charged in a series of raids in the town of Taft last week had provided weapons to criminals or represented a threat to law-abiding citizens anywhere. In fact, I personally would have felt a lot safer in Taft last week, before Mr. Howell was "suicided" than I would today. I think most Americans would. Let's suspend our own cognitive skills and good judgment for a moment and pretend the cops' story is 100 percent accurate. Was the four-year investigation worth it? Was it a prudent investment of taxpayer dollars? Why aren't these law-enforcement heroes out investigating real crimes of violence against innocent victims, instead of conducting secretive sting operations designed to entrap people into violating inherently unconstitutional laws? But, you know what? Such talk can get you in trouble these days. One of the BATF agents responsible for this tragedy said one of Howell's friends had (gasp!) complained about a ban on "assault weapons" and the actions of President Clinton, Attorney General Janet Reno and U.S. Sen. Dianne Feinstein. At the risk of inviting a similar assault on my home or business, let me pick up that cry: These are, indeed, some of the people who represent a real threat to our lives and liberty in America t From brownrk1 at texaco.com Tue Oct 13 03:14:25 1998 From: brownrk1 at texaco.com (Brown, R Ken) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 18:14:25 +0800 Subject: FBI to inaugurate national DNA database Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F84C5@MSX11002> > Ernest Hua[SMTP:hua at teralogic-inc.com] wrote: > > I think it would be a very bad idea for civil liberties > groups to come out 100% against this. So far all they > have said is that they intend to log all convicted criminals. > If the C.L. groups complain about that, then it would be too > easy for the FBI to turn around and say, "Geez! These guys > complain about anything and everything we do!" I think you are falling for the old bazaar bargaining trick. The guy wants to sell you a carpet that is worth a shekel. He reckons he can do you for ten shekels. So he starts the bidding at a hundred and you think you've done well when you've beaten him down to fifteen. America is - cypherpunks tell me - a country where people worry about their social security number being kept on databases, where caller id on phones can be a hot political issue. This DNA business is far more intrusive and dangerous than any of that. Don't fall for it! Don't fall for the argument that it is only the bad guys who get tagged. They can define anyone they want as a bad guy. How many people do you know who have never done anything for which they could be convicted as a criminal? Never driven a car faster then the speed limit, never smoked dope, never ridden a bicycle on the pavement, never been drunk in a public place? To a large extent the set of "convicted criminals" is governed by police or court decisions rather than by the actions of the criminals. Over here in Britain we've had a long succession of intrusive, abusive laws promulgated in the name of public safety, law and order, peace on the streets. The previous government had their absurd "dangerous dogs act" which became a laughing stock before the ink was dry then their horrendous and evil "Criminal Justice Bill" with racist provisions allowing the police to persecute travellers and uttely useless laws against "music with repetitive beats" not to mention new rules to control "young offenders, bailed persons, squatters, travellers, ravers, protesters, trespassers, arrested persons, defendants, hunt-saboteurs, pornographers, video pirates, obscene telephone-callers, prisoners, racists, terrorists, ticket touts, cannabis-smokers, serious fraudsters and not forgetting gay men under 18." The current lot aren't as bad, and are certainly more well-intentioned but they haven't repealed any of the earlier stuff and are, bit by bit, filling in the few gaps in the wall of regulation and legislation the Tories built around anyone who wasn't a middle-aged white man who worked 9 to 5, living in a suburb with a car and a mortgage, who never went out. Our current Home Secretary (cabinet minister with responsibility for police anong other things) was probably the first person in such a position in any major country who was brought up by a single mother on a violent estate (what you'd call a housing project in America) and he thinks he knows - no he *does* know - what most ordinary people in environments like that want from life. So he proposes law after law to make things better, to tell people how they ought to live, all with the best of intentions. Curfews for children (you ask questions and he will just come back at you and say "do you *really* think 9-year-old children should be wandering around on their own at night, or in gangs?" to which the honest answer is "no, but it's none of your business if they do"). Compulsory parenting education for parents whose children commit crimes. A national register of paedophiles - which is made public, so a couple of convicted child abusers, on being released from jail asked to be taken back in again because their life wasn't safe outside. Defining email that goes outside the country as "export" so that writing about bombs (or cryptography?) can come under the strategic arms export regulations. And so on. And all the while local councils put up cameras in every high street... And all the [...snip...] > Secondly, it is much more important to focus law makers > on the FBI's "constantly pushing for everything they can > get away with while talking BALANCE" behavior than to nickle > and dime every law favoring the FBI. They must be shown > for their blatant lies rather than for their gray area behavior. > Otherwise, it's a very very tough battle. From remailer at hr13.zedz.net Tue Oct 13 03:43:51 1998 From: remailer at hr13.zedz.net (Anonymous) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 18:43:51 +0800 Subject: BATF strike again Message-ID: CHRISTINE L. PETERSON Friends skeptical of official account October 8, 1998 http://www.bakersfield.com/top/i--1304241419.asp By CHRISTINE L. PETERSON Californian staff writer Disbelief permeated the tight-knit communities of Taft and Ford City Thursday as residents and friends of Darryl Howell questioned law enforcement's account of his death in his gun shop. The Kern County Sheriff Department's version of the events � that the gun shop owner grabbed a loaded .45-caliber handgun Wednesday, struggled with officers and then placed the barrel in his mouth and pulled the trigger �just didn't fit with what they knew of the father of two. Sheriff's officials said a Taft police officer, not knowing where the expended round went, immediately fired three rounds that struck Howell, 45, on the right side of his body. He died at the scene. "Everyone in Taft knows this is stupid," said Shannon Ong, 34, Howell's niece. "They think the police officers are trying to make it seem like he was a criminal." Ong believes there could be nothing further from the truth � that the man who grew up in Taft and graduated from Taft Union High School where yearbooks say he played football and was in the band was a wonderful man who ran an upstanding business. While at least one family member and friends said Howell was vocal in support of gun rights, they did not believe he would condone any illegal behavior or sell illegal firearms. "The way that press release makes him sound, well, he just would have never done anything like that," Ong said after reading a copy of a sheriff's news release on the incident. ATF agents went to Alpha Omega Surplus and Supplies Store as part of a four-year firearms trafficking investigation, said ATF special agent Tracy Hite. She said ATF was assisted in serving a warrant by the Taft Police Department and Kern County Sheriff's Department. "This was a lengthy investigation that led us to several locations," Hite said, explaining that there were search warrants for five locations and arrest warrants for three people in Kern County. Ong estimated her uncle had the business for 15 to 20 years, first within Taft city limits and then in the county. At the business Thursday, some family members and friends gathered at the shop. A bumper sticker on a window bore the message: "Only tyrants and criminals fear honest armed citizens." Recorded programs blared from speakers outside the shop. "I just don't understand it," said friend Jamie Walchock. She said that while she didn't share Howell's support of guns, she respected him because he looked on the bright side of life, listened to and worked with people on their problems and was satisfied with making ends meet. She said Howell talked about moving. "In the 12 years I have known him, I have never seen him upset," Walchock said. To her, Howell was a law-abiding citizen; she said he didn't like helmets so he stopped riding his motorcycle when the helmet law went into effect. "I know in a million years he wouldn't ever shoot himself or lunge at a police officer," Walchock said. Ken Bishop, who would sometimes visit Howell at his shop, said Howell was "somewhat of a patriot" and would share his opinions about guns. He said that law enforcement's statement that Howell had illegal firearms seems "off the wall." Mike Hodges, the publisher of Golden Empire Review, said Howell asked to have a column printed in the paper titled, "Notes from Moron." Taft was called Moron in 1908, according to "Kern County Place Names." The city changed its name to Taft in 1909. In the column, Howell quotes several passages from the Bible. The column Hodges attributed to Howell states, "It is not an hone to be in the Militia! It is our God-given duty! We are commanded to be his soldiers. It is time to lay aside our �daily' jobs and return to duty! R&R is over! To arms, to arms! Where are His soldiers? "Right now, where is your squad members? Right now can you honestly state that you are aware of their location and their ability to respond to duty?" Hodges said after Howell died, he reread the column. "It gave me an eerie, shaky feeling," Hodges said. He said he didn't believe Howell would ever resist arrest. While Howell didn't agree with some gun legislation, he abided by it, Hodges said. "I know Darryl wouldn't kill himself and he wouldn't hurt someone else," Hodges said. "My personal experience is he was a real giving person." 10/07/98 Article Man shot to death at Taft gun shop http://www.bakersfield.com/top/i--1304325052.asp From rah at shipwright.com Tue Oct 13 04:41:16 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 19:41:16 +0800 Subject: TCR9 -- A Soldier of the Great War Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text From: CONSILRPT at aol.com Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 04:44:22 EDT To: "The Consilience Report" Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: TCR9 -- A Soldier of the Great War List-Subscribe: List-Owner: Reply-To: CONSILRPT at aol.com X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-consilience-report-262839 at lists.lyris.net Precedence: bulk ____________________________________________________________ THE CONSILIENCE REPORT: A Bionomic Meditation Number Nine 10/13/98 _____________________________________________________________ A SOLDIER OF THE GREAT WAR Last Waltz in Vienna ================ In the summer of 1918 the Great War was grinding through its fourth year. Thirty millions already dead or wounded -- or more -- no one really knows -- and the wreck of Europe still staggered on, like a blind man into oncoming traffic. In Italy the Austrian army was making its last futile bid for a military victory with an attack across the Piave River. In ten days they would lose 100,000 men -- twice all the American deaths in Vietnam, but barely a footnote in the endless slaughter of WW1. If you had been on the Italian front that June -- if you had been, say, young Ernest Hemingway from Michigan, tending your ambulance -- and had looked up at just the right time and place, you might have seen one of the biplanes of that era: an observation craft buzzing westward from the Austrian lines. The skinny boy-officer in the rear cockpit was a spotter for an artillery regiment of the Austro- Hungarian army. He had dropped out of high school in his senior year to enlist and experience a small part of the catastrophe. He was Lieutenant Friedrich August von Hayek, eldest son of a distinguished family of the minor Austrian nobility. He was just nineteen years old and, like all the young men so engaged that year, had no good prospect of getting much older. Hayek had been born in Vienna in 1899, in the reign of "der Alte Kaiser," the Emperor Franz- Joseph, next-to-last of the durable Habsburg dynasty. Unlike many of his age and class, Lt. von Hayek survived his war. He contracted malaria in the long retreat in the fall of 1918 but made it back -- thin and sick, but alive -- to a city that was no longer the glittering capital of a polyglot empire. Vienna was now just the largest city in the tiny rump state of the Austrian Republic -- redundant, impoverished, and on the edge of starvation. But it still possessed enough intellectual and cultural capital for one last burst of achievement before the Nazis rolled in fifteen years later. Here, Hayek considered his prospects in a changed world and prepared to enter the University of Vienna. A Shift of Attention =============== His first love had been the natural sciences. His grandfather had been a prominent ornithologist and Hayek, like his father, had been a fervent amateur botanist. One of his brothers became an anatomist, the other a chemist. By the time he was sixteen he had progressed from a collector's interest in taxonomy to paleontology and evolutionary theory -- but the war changed things. The experience of serving in a multinational army, shifted his interest from the natural to the social sciences. As he drily remarked: I served in a battle in which eleven different languages were spoken. It's bound to draw your attention to the problems of social organiization. As unbearable as 1914-1918 had been, events were already in motion to ensure that the rest of the horrible twentieth century arrived on schedule. Austria's senior ally -- the other Kaiser -- had just put the Russian emigre Vladimir Ulyanov (nom de guerre: Lenin) into a sealed train bound for St Petersburg, like a plague bacillus into the artery of a sick man. And within a year another Austrian veteran, Adolph Hitler, would make his way to Vienna, tramping through a rougher neighborhood than Hayek's, completing his own education among the crackpots and anti-semites that had long been flourishing like weeds in the brilliant but decadent capital. Europe, broken and bleeding, waited patiently while the scenery was shifted and the principal players learned their lines for the next act. Hayek had little to do with that -- few would be ready to listen to him or his ideas until the National Socialists and Communists had shot their bolt, and not many even then. Some Piety ========= We would like to think that everyone knows of, and esteems Hayek but, for the benefit of students arriving late here is a brief recitation: F. A. Hayek (1899-1992) was one of the foremost economists of this century before he morphed into a later and even more important career as a social and political philosopher. He won the Nobel prize in economics in 1974 and America's presidential Medal of Freedom in 1991. Those are some of the bare facts as they are cited in reference books, but there is much more to be said: He was a mighty scholar, an original thinker, a gentleman in a nearly-forgotten sense of that word. Above all, he was a man of unflinching moral courage who did as much as anyone to keep the idea of individual freedom alive. In an age when many of our leaders have tried to tell us that liberty is an embarrassing relic of another age -- something that we should happily trade in for something shinier -- our nation, or our race, or equality, or security, or social justice, or some other fabulous chimera -- Hayek quietly, persistently said: No, we won't. For that, and for other things, we owe him. Hayek had a long and useful life, doing important work on into his 70s and 80s, but he won't quite have made it into his centenary year of 1999. We expect that hosannahs will be going up from all of the various libertarian enclaves as his 100th birth- day approaches, but TCR would like to be among the first to pay our respects. We expect we will need two or three more essays to talk about his life and work, connect it to our present concerns, and to try to make it clear that he is somewhat more than just another dead economist. There's something to be said for the old Greek ideal of piety -- civic reverence toward what has gone before -- and if anyone in our century deserves a bit of that, it is certainly he. London ====== Between the wars, even before the Nazis would have made his departure obligatory, Hayek left Vienna and alighted in London, a place he found very much to his liking. In 1895, Sidney and Beatrice Webb, doyen and doyenne of English socialism, had founded the London School of Economics and Political Science, intending for it to be the West Point of their sect. But things had loosened up a bit, and Lionel Robbins, the moderate scholar who headed the economics department, decided that a young visiting lecturer from Vienna was a comer. Robbins discovered that Hayek, notwithstanding his anti-socialist views, seemed to know more about the history of the English monetary system than any man in England. His English was passable and he was a genial, well-bred sort -- "clubbable" as the English say. Robbins offered young Dr Hayek a faculty position. LSE didn't have quite the cachet of Oxford or Cambridge but, for a young foreigner whose own country offered poor prospects, it was a plum. The Great Debate ============= In the small world that concerned itself with economic theory, Hayek emerged in the early Thirties as the great rival of John Maynard Keynes. In the journals, they conducted a public debate about monetary and fiscal policy and what, if anything, economists (and the governments they advised), could do about the Great Depression that seemed to be swallowing up the wealth of the planet. Keynes, brilliant and charismatic, had dabbled in several fields, but now believed he had solved the problem of booms and busts -- what the economists genteelly referred to as "economic fluctuations." When Keynes published his _Treatise on Money_, Hayek, uncharismatic but persistent, fired back with a series of penetrating criticisms. Later Keynes extended his ideas in_The General Theory of Employment, Credit, and Money_, and again Hayek returned fire. Personally, Keynes and Hayek became good friends, sharing a passion for history and book collecting. Publicly, they fought on. As we all know, Keynes won the debate and Hayek lost it, or so it seemed at the time, as governments gravitated to Keynesianism. Then came the Second War, which seemed to justify extension of government control over whatever bits of their economies that central planners in Washington and London had not already comandeered to fight the depression. We can't pause here to consider the substance of the Keynes-Hayek debate (and aren't compe- tent to do so), except perhaps to say that it was rooted in a basic conceptual clash about whether macroeconomics as proposed by Keynes and others really made any sense. Hayek (and the Austrian school from which he sprang) held that the aggregate measurements of economic activity -- which Keynes proposed to track and control through state action --were statistical illusions that could only mislead policy- makers about microeconomic reality. Later, Hayek himself said of the great debate: In the middle 1940s... I was known as one of the two main disputing economists: there was Keynes and there was I . Now Keynes died and became a saint; and I discredited myself by publishing _The Road to Serfdom ... A Discreditable Book ================ In the summer of 1939, even after Austria's annexation by Hitler, Hayek took train across Europe for his annual holiday in the Austrian Alps. He was a vigorous forty and an experienced mountaineer, confident that even if war befell, he could walk out of the country across the mountains, depending on his skills and knowledge to reach Switzerland. He did his best thinking in the mountains and here, perhaps, in Nazified Austria, he mapped out his own little piece of the next war. He had seen, at closer-hand than his English colleagues, the extinction of liberal Europe, the ascendency of barbarism, and the steps by which it had been wrought. He had already published a little article called "Freedom and the Economic System" in a popular magazine. It contained the germ for an argument he knew many people wouldn't want to hear. His loyalty was to England now, but he began to wonder if his new countrymen really understood how easily their liberty could slip through their fingers. An ex-enemy alien, with a German accent and a "von" in front of his name was not considered a suitable candidate for a government post -- it would have involved PR problems that Mr Churchill didn't need. So Robbins and Keynes became government advisors, while Hayek taught. His contribution to the war effort was philosophical and polemical rather than bureaucratic. And, as it turned out, the war that preoccupied his thougtsa wasn't precisely the same one that the English thought they were fighting. In his spare time between 1940 and 1943 he wrote _The Road to Serfdom_, and published it in Britain in 1944. It was a book that nearly ruined his reputation as an economist and set his life on a new course. On the Road ========= When Hayek was awarded the Nobel prize in 1974, the first reaction of many was surprise that he was still alive. A few recalled that he had debated Keynes many years ago, then he had published a polemic that upset everyone and wrecked his career. Where had he been? Unlike his friend and rival Keynes, Hayek didn't think of himself as a wit. When he dedicated RTS to "The Socialists of All Parties," he was not being arch or ironical. They were precisely the people he was addressing. If it was a polemic, it was an uncommonly polite one. In a long and disputatious life Hayek always carefully attributed only seemly motives to his opponents -- never suggesting that they sought anything but the good and the true. In his own case it may have been so, but he was a very unusual man. His opponents were often not so delicate. What he told them, in fine, was that he believed in their good intentions: There can be no doubt that most socialists still believe profoundly in the liberal ideal of freedom and that they would recoil if they became convinced that the realization of their program would mean the destruction of freedom. Then, for two hundred pages, he tried to so convince them and bring about that recoil. He argued that the planned economies to which so many well-meaning people had pinned their hopes for a better world would inevitably and tragically lead to a worse one. That all of their ideas had already been tried in Germany or Russia or both. That the results were there for anyone with the eyes to see them. That their good intentions would not save them. The book was written by an Austro-Englishman specifically to warn his new countrymen -- full of examples and arguments calculated to move an English mind. It received a respectful hearing there, where Hayek was something of a minor public figure. It never occurred to him that it would become a popular best-seller in the United States, where he was completely unknown. When Hayek arrived in the United States in the spring of 1945, he was planning to lecture to audiences of economists at a few universities. Instead, he discovered that RTS had been published not just by the scholarly University of Chicago Press, but had been condensed in The Readers' Digest, the largest-circulation magazine of its day, then re-printed in a cheap edition as a Book-of-the-Month. In the pre- television, pre-Internet world of 1945 it was a media blitz. He was astounded to discover that he was an instant celebrity. In New York, instead of lecturing to a few professors he found himself addressing an overflow crowd in a 3000-seat auditorium, and carried live on network radio. Aftermath ======== It would be pleasant to report that the socialists of all parties had actually been persuaded, or at least cowed, by RTS, but of course no such thing happened. Not then, and not now. Hayek had his bewildering few weeks of American celebrity, and here and there RTS penetrated deeply. Hayek continued to work and write, spent time in the United States and in liberated Europe, and did what he could to marshal a revival of what he quaintly still insisted on calling "liberalism." His American critics, calling themselves liberals, insisted that he was a reactionary conservative and an enemy of progress. A comedy of errors that persists to this day. Although Hayek and RTS outlived many critics -- always the most satisfactory way to win an argument -- there were plenty of them. One of the three American commercial publishers that rejected the book found it so politically repulsive that they reportedly said it was "unfit for publication by a reputable house." As he recalled it: The English socialists, with few exceptions, accepted the book as something written in good faith...In America it was wholly different... The great enthusiasm about the New Deal was still at its height...the American intelligentsia...felt that this was a betrayal of the highest ideals which intellectuals ought to defend. So I was exposed to incredible abuse... It went so far as to completely discredit me professionally. When efforts were made to bring Hayek to the University of Chicago a few years later, the school's economists rose in angry disdain. Hayek had to settle for a berth with the prestigious Committee on Social Thought, where he was pointedly not expected to profess economics. It was only in 1974 when he made his trip to Stockholm to receive his Nobel gong, that there was a general revival of interest in the forgotten man. And there the tale will have to rest for now. Postscript and Preview ================= At the Fourth Bionomics Conference in 1996, Eric B. Baum of the NEC Research Institute gave a workshop on genetic algorithms, featuring a program he called "The Hayek Machine." The name was not whimsical -- it pointed back to an obscure book by Hayek called _The Sensory Order_, a foray by the economist into theoretical psychology -- published in 1952, but based on notions he had sketched out in the 1920s. Genetic algorithms are a subset of artificial intelligence research, but they also have important implications for economics, psychology, biology, and other disciplines. Baum's Hayek1 and Hayek2 are "dumb" programs operating with limited infor- mation about their environment, but which manage to solve complex problems. It is Adam Smith's Invisible Hand, as enriched by F. A. Hayek and formalized by cutting-edge computer science. We think the value of history is self-evident, but our interest in Hayek is mainly forward-looking. He tried, very persuasively, to show us the social world as a field of self-organizing institutions co-evolving in an almost Darwinian fashion -- what he called spontaneous order. Hayek's work anticipated and partly inspired research now being carried out in many disciplines. It implies a world-view that is still inchoate and hard to encapsule in a word or a phrase. "Complex self-organizing systems" catches some of it. But it could just as well be called simply Hayekian. It also happens to be a way of looking at things that is congenial to libertarians. If the social world were not, in fact, essentially Hayekian, then order could never arise spontaneously. But our growing understanding of complex systems in many contexts is confirming the reasonings and intuitions of Hayek. Our human world is a place where order need not be imposed by planners and despots -- a world where a free society operating within an impersonal framework of basic rules is an available option. As intimated above, we hope to tease out various Hayekian insights in future TCRs: spontaneous organization, the role of information in the economy, and his re-thinking of the problem of constitutional govenment, among others. And along the way: an occasional nod of gratitude to the old soldier himself. ====================================== Resources: 1. A Soldier of the Great War Our title was swiped from the excellent novel of the same name by Mark Helprin. It is a fictional reminiscence of an old man who, in his youth, fought with the Italian Army in World War One. A convenient way to learn something about that war, which also happens to be a fine piece of writing. 2. Hayek had been born in Vienna... There are several biographical sketches of Hayek here and there, but no proper biography exists. For this essay we relied heavily on _Hayek on Hayek: An Autobiographical Dialogue Edited by Stephen Kresge and Leif Wenar_. It has been cobbled together from several tape- recorded interviews with Hayek in the 1970s and '80s, and gives us Hayek in his own words. It's a companion to the collected works of Hayek, being published in 20-odd volumes by University of Chicago Press with the support of a dozen classical liberal/libertarian groups in several countries, including Cato and the Reason Foundation. The introduction by Stephen Kresge is the best short summary of Hayek's life and works that we know of. The book includes some wonderful photos, including young FAH in the regalia of an Austrian officer, and writing al fresco in the Alps. All extended Hayek quotes arefrom this work. Available from Amazon (1994 HC edition) for $27.50: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ 0226320626/002-2884821-8302613 2a. The Hayek Interviews One of the tapes included in _Hayek on Hayek_ is a 1977 interview conducted by Prof. Tom Hazlett. It was printed in Reason magazine in 1992 following Hayek's death. Available at: http://www.reasonmag.com/hayekint.html Also, for those who want to see and hear the man himself, several recordings are available from the Idea Channel. Selected clips can be seen/heard for no charge at their website: http://www.ideachannel.com/HayekDiscussions.htm 3. The Hayek-Keynes Debate No short piece can resolve this tangled and very theoretical fifty-year-old controversy. The most lucid and concise account of this dispute (for non-economists) we know of is an essay by Fritz Machlup in _Essays on Hayek_ (1976). Machlup is another eminent Austrian who taught at Princeton and is a past president of the American Economics Association. He is sympathetic to Hayek but fair to Keynes. The book is, unfortunately, out of print, but probably not difficult to find. As to the final fate of Keynes, we can only note that his reputation is much diminished in recent years, while Hayek's has risen. At the 1997 convention of the American Economics Association, there was a session called "Is there a Core of Practical Macroeconomcs That We Should all Believe?," suggesting that there is considerable disarray in the macro school which was once confident that it was smart enough to not only understand but "fine-tune" modern economies. See also: Ben W. Bolch, "Is Macroeconomics Believable?" in The Independent Review, vol 2, No4 (Spring 1998). 4. _The Road to Serfdom_ The fiftieth anniversary edition was published by University of Chicago in 1994, and is still in print. It includes a new introduction by Hayek's friend and fellow Nobel laureate Milton Friedman and Hayek's lengthy preface to the 1956 edition. RTS has been roundly praised, here and elsewhere, as a classic, and it surely is. But it should be noted that much of the book's argument turns on people, issues and events of the 30s and 40s which some readers born after WW II may find a bit murky. The "classical" central-planning socialism criticized by Hayek in 1944 has been succeeded by socialism "lite" -- the pervasive regulate-and- redistribute regimes with which we cope at century's-end, and a bit of translation is required to see that it is the same vinegary wine in a new bottle. A reader who wants a short, sharp summing-up adjusted for recent fashions in statism might prefer _The Fatal Conceit_ (1989), Hayek's parting shot in his ninetieth year. No single book encompasses all of Hayek's thought, but those who are not much interested in technical economics, are pressed for time, and want to read the best single, systematic statement of Hayek's philosophy might better take up his _The Constitution of Liberty_ (1960). RTS is available for a paltry $8.76 from Amazon at http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ 0226320618/o/qid=908170736/sr=2-1/ 002-2884821-8302613 CoL (1978 trade PB edition) is $19.95: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ 0226320847/qid%3D908170912/ 002-2884821-8302613 TFC (1991 trade PB edition) is $12.00: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ 0226320669/r/002-2884821-8302613 4. The "Hayek" genetic algorithm program... A brief abstract of Dr Baum's presentation is available at: http://www.bionomics.org/text/events/conf96/ abstracts/abBowlBaum.html 5. Hayek on the Web There are a number of good Hayekian resources on the Net, but the only one you really need is the excellent Friedrich Hayek Scholars' Page at http://members.aol.com/gregransom/ hayekpage.htm It's maintained by Professor Greg Ransom of Mira Costa College, and contains links to every substantial bit of Hayekiana on the Web. A cornucopia. ============================================== TCR is published by Steve Hyde and John LeGere, and written, more often than not, by John LeGere.. Comments, brickbats, and inquiries can be addressed to us at CONSILRPT at aol.com Please feel free to forward this issue to whomever you please, leaving our boilerplate intact. If you know discerning people who would like to receive TCR, send a subscription request to CONSILRPT at aol.com. =============================================== --- You are currently subscribed to consilience-report as: [rah at shipwright.com] To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-consilience-report-262839E at lists.lyris.net --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From jya at pipeline.com Tue Oct 13 04:53:29 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 19:53:29 +0800 Subject: NSA Declassifications Message-ID: <199810131106.HAA09415@camel14.mindspring.com> Forward: A selection of National Security Agency declassification decisions is offered at http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/nsa/index.html ___________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists http://www.fas.org/sgp/ From rah at shipwright.com Tue Oct 13 05:12:03 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 20:12:03 +0800 Subject: TCQ ascii version Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text X-Authentication-Warning: tarnhelm.blu.org: majordom set sender to owner-isig at blu.org using -f Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 03:08:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Demas To: isig at blu.org Subject: Re: TCQ ascii version MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-isig at blu.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: isig at blu.org On Tue, 13 Oct 1998, David Meyer wrote: > You are not the person who posted the original message, but I'll extend my > request to you: provide some reasonable, legitimate, requirement for > anonymity. How about a government employee taking part in political discussion without the fear of suffering some form of reprisal by their elected superiors? How about a gay person that's still in the closet that wants to discuss how to explain their situation to their family without the fear that their sexual preference would be exposed? How about those that are HIV positive looking for support while living in a small town that is very afraid of those with HIV, and where the knowledge that one is HIV positive has driven people from the community? How about someone that feels they may be getting sexually harassed but isn't sure that they want to confront their harasser, but wants some advice? How about a rape, incest, or domestic violence victim that is looking for some support group but doesn't want to go public yet? How about the alcoholic, drug user, gambler trying to come to terms with their problem. How about the relatives of those with that type of problem that are looking for a private way to deal/handle the problems associated with their relative's problem? How about the runaway that is looking for a way to go home, or the suicidal person that is looking for help. Must they go public to get that help, or should they be able to ask questions anonymously? How about the person that wants to turn in someone that's going to commit a crime? There are lots of good reasons that people want privacy and anonymity, and lots of them have to do with the prejudices of others about the issue that the person wants to keep private. Chuck Demas Needham, Mass. > I can think of one reason to treasure anonymity: fear of retribution. > For what? Oh, anything. Doesn't matter what. You are planning to do > something that will cause someone else to take notice of you and respond > in a way you fear. Send you to jail? Fire you? Break your fingers? Close > your internet access? The problem is that these things are seldom done > on a whim. Mostly, for just cause. Who says it is just? You do. You say > "I am about to do something that's going to bring heaven and earth down > around my shoulders if I do not protect my identity." This fear may be > real or imagined. > > Please explain, with some detail, what reason a sane, guiltless person > might have for anonymity. Giving away $million$? > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to majordomo at blu.org > with the following text in the *body* (*not* the subject line) of the letter: > unsubscribe isig > Eat Healthy | _ _ | Nothing would be done at all, Stay Fit | @ @ | If a man waited to do it so well, Die Anyway | v | That no one could find fault with it. demas at tiac.net | \___/ | http://www.tiac.net/users/demas -- To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to majordomo at blu.org with the following text in the *body* (*not* the subject line) of the letter: unsubscribe isig --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Tue Oct 13 05:15:39 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 20:15:39 +0800 Subject: IP: [FP] Boiling the frog: Much will depend on 'electronic money' Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Delivered-To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com From: "ScanThisNews" To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Subject: IP: [FP] Boiling the frog: Much will depend on 'electronic money' Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 20:27:18 -0500 Sender: owner-ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Precedence: list Reply-To: "ScanThisNews" ====================================================================== SCAN THIS NEWS 10/11/98 [Forwarded message] FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE DATED OCT. 4, 1998 THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz Boiling the frog: Much will depend on the new 'electronic money' EDITORS: A version of this feature first appeared in the October edition of Las Vegas Magazine. An Internet press release (how trendy) from the folks at MasterCard International, datelined "Purchase, N.Y., July 22, 1998," informs us: "MasterCard International hosted today an online forum with thought leaders from global business, government and research organizations to discuss lifestyle changes that will occur as smart card technology gains acceptance over the next five years. "Representatives from IBM, Hitachi, British Telecommunications plc, the U.S. federal government's General Services Administration, The Tower Group and Emerge Online participated in the roundtable, which was moderated by Richard Phillimore, Senior Vice President of MasterCard's Chip Card Business unit. "'Five years from now, multi-application smart cards will be an established technology in the payments business,' Phillimore said. 'As the benefits of multi-application smart cards are proven in the marketplace, the conversion from magnetic stripe to chip-based payment cards will be very rapid. By the year 2010, we expect all of MasterCard's credit and debit cards and terminals will be chip-based.' "Smart cards will deliver increased consumer value and utility to today's credit cards, Phillimore added. 'Chip technology will enable cardholders to use their cards for many more purposes, such as electronic ticketing, loyalty programs, and secure remote shopping -- a true Lifestyle Card that can be tailored to meet the unique needs and preferences of a single individual.'" When mentioning those ominous-sounding "loyalty programs," I should point out, the online MasterCard gang are referring not to government loyalty oaths of the "am not now and never have been a member of the Communist Party" variety, but rather a system in which cardholders receive discounts for "loyally" shopping through one company -- the system probably familiar to most consumers today via those "discount club cards" issued by your supermarket, offering you 30 cents off a package of toilet paper if you let the teller scan your card at the checkout stand. Of course, the store gets something back in return for that discount. In addition to the obvious hope that you'll keep going back to the store whose discount card you carry (essentially, a surcharge is being applied to "hoppers" who show no store loyalty), the management can now easily track how many of its outlets you visit, and what you buy there. The initial commercial applications may be innocent enough -- "Let's save postage by only sending coupons for this new brand of breakfast cereal to the home addresses of our shoppers who already buy the more expensive competitor." But you don't have to be the kind who walks stooped over to avoid the black helicopters to foresee the day when the government inspectors may arrive, asking to see the electronic profiles of all customers in a given geographic area who have used the fast-spreading cards to buy anything from home AIDS test kits to hydroponic "grow lights" to "High Times" magazine to pistol ammunition. It's all stored in the computer, you know. And how long do you think Jack, your friendly local produce manager, is really going to refuse to let the FBI access his computer without a court order? About as long as it takes them to ask for his Social Security number and threaten to call their friends at the IRS, suggesting Jack may be in need of an immediate tax audit? The cheerful little MasterCard press release doesn't take long to broach the subject of "expanded uses" for the new cards with their embedded memory chips: "The panel also addressed the use of smart cards for identification purposes. Many agreed that identification was the 'killer application' that would encourage adoption of smart card programs. Kotaro Yamashita, COO of Financial Services at Hitachi, Ltd. said, 'We see identification applications issued by governments as being big in many places outside of Asia, for example Central America.' However, Marty Wagner, Associate Administrator of the Office of Government wide Policy at the U.S. General Services Administration (GSA) cautioned that 'National identity card programs could run into trouble in the U.S. due to privacy concerns.' " # # # The process of accustoming Americans to carrying around cards which can be used to buy anything from a candy car to a soda pop to a round-trip airline ticket to London -- but whose embedded chips will also relay to corporate and government snoops the social security number and other personal information (and resultant tax obligations) of anyone making that purchase -- is well underway. There's an old folk warning that if you throw a frog in boiling water he will quickly jump out. But if you put a frog in a pan of cold water and raise the temperature ever so slowly, the gradual warming will make the frog doze happily, triggering the soporific response he instinctively displays when the sun shines on his lily pad ... In fact, the frog will eventually cook to death, without ever waking up. Likewise, some mighty high-powered public relations types are figuring ways to emphasize the convenience of "electronic cash" - and downplay the effect it may have in removing any remaining privacy from the way you spend your pay. The goal? To cook the frog, without any ruckus. Convenience, convenience, convenience, was the happy spin Time magazine put on a new "single electronic card that may replace everything in your wallet," in their issue of April 27, 1998. As the magazine was listing all the bothersome stuff you now have to lug around - cash, ATM cards, credit cards, proof of insurance - it made a not-so-subtle swipe at anyone who would resist the happy consolidation of such burdens: "Your ID cards. PRESENT: You lug various bits of your legal identity. FUTURE: Non-conspiracists could consolidate pertinent info in one place." Get that? If you don't want the government tax man to see your bank balance and a record of how many times you've flown to Zurich or the Cayman Islands, if you don't want the theater manager to see your alimony payments or your concealed-carry handgun permit, if you don't want your boss to see your prescription for post-cancer-surgery drugs, if you don't want EVERYONE to gain a precise accounting of how much you spent last month at Frederick's of Hollywood, or renting X-rated videos, or shacked up in a motel room across town, or purchasing alcoholic beverages, or buying vaginal contraceptive foam (including which brand you prefer), why, you're just some loony "conspiracist." Also note that "could" ... as though we'll still have any choice. But why worry? Digital cash will be great, argues Joshua Cooper Ramo in the big "Future of Money" piece in the April 27 Time: "Think about the $2,000 check you send to your daughter at college for expenses. How is that money really spent? Books ... or beer? Electronic cash takes that relatively simple transaction -- passing an allowance -- and makes it into a much more intelligent process. ... "Your daughter can store the money any way she wants -- on her laptop, on a debit card, even (in the not too distant future) on a chip implanted under her skin. And, perhaps best of all, you can program the money to be spent only in specific ways. You might instruct some of the digits to go for books, some for food and some for movies. Unless you pass along a few digits that can be cashed at the local pub, she'll have to find someone else to buy the drinks." Ha ha. Kind of cute, isn't it? But look again. Isn't the underlying theme one of "control"? Try substituting a different scenario for Mr. Ramo's. How about: "Think about the $1,000 Social Security check your agency sends a retiree in Las Vegas. How is that money really spent? Food and lodging ... or blackjack, roulette, and Margaritas?" If the purpose of government retirement insurance is to make sure old folks have food and a roof over their head, doesn't the government have an OBLIGATION to "earmark" portions of those checks so they can only be used to buy certain things, once the new e-cash technology gives them that capability? Couldn't we set e-cards to freeze a recipient's account if she tried to use any of the "money" to pay for a second prescription of pain pills written by a doctor other than her ASSIGNED doctor, or to buy a naughty book about how to evade taxes, or how to move money into offshore accounts? For that matter, what if your boss started earmarking parts of your electronic paycheck for rent or groceries -- at certain stores that pay for the consideration -- all "for your own good," you understand? After all, the kind of soccer moms who elected Bill Clinton can be counted on to favor almost (start ital)any(end ital) additional Big Brother controls over those irresponsible men in their lives, frittering away their paychecks on bar tabs, dirty magazines, power tools, and fancy chrome doo-dads for their pickup trucks. # # # Donald S. McAlvany, editor of the economic and geopolitical newsletter "The McAlvany Intelligence Advisor," is a fellow who has been looking into the move toward trackable "electronic cash" for some time. The lead article in the July, 1998 edition of his 16-page newsletter is headlined "Toward a Cashless Society: Implementing an Electronic Currency in America," and spells out a very different view of these developing trends from the one embraced by the jovial publicists at Time: "The global socialists who dominate America and most of the governments of the western world today (especially Western Europe) have long had a goal of moving the world away from the use of cash and into an electronic funds currency system, wherein virtually all cash in use is 'electronic currency,' " writes Mr. McAlvany. "If all financial transactions are forced through an electronic banking system ... the ultimate 'people control' system could be established. ..." Citing George Orwell's classic novel "1984," Mr. McAlvany reminds us: "Privacy is a major element of freedom, without which people and nations cannot remain free. Today, we have dozens of privacy-destroying systems being put in place by governments all over the world. They include video camera surveillance in public places; electronic eavesdropping on computers, phones and faxes; dozens of computerized files on each adult American - compiled from credit card, banking, and tax records; physical surveillance of homes, in whole areas via satellite, helicopters, and other aircraft; the growing use of Social Security numbers to extract all kinds of information on Americans from business, banking, and government data cases; photo IDs required at airports; and the push by the Clinton Administration for a computerized (smart card) national identification card for all U.S. citizens. "But the greatest privacy-destroying system of all, one which would have made Big Brother's, Adolf Hitler's, Mao's, Lenin's or Stalin's mouths water is the elimination of cash and the forcing of all citizens into the computerized banking system for (start ital)all(end ital) transactions. Ultimately these transactions can be monitored, recorded, profiled, and used in 'people control.' If all of your personal transactions can be so tracked, a socialist government bent on identifying, profiling and controlling its 'politically incorrect' citizens or 'religious fanatics' or Bible-believing Christians; gun owners; critics of the government; non-tax compliers, can easily scrutinize and build a profile on such individuals. It can also, in the absence of a cash-spending alternative, deny the privilege to buy and sell to those who are politically or religiously incorrect." Since one of the main problems banks may have during the anticipated computer crisis brought about by the turning of the century is clearing checks written on other banks -- banks whose computers may not agree with the home bank's "fix" for the transition from year date 99 to year date 00 -- Mr. McAlvany suggests that crisis might present a perfect opportunity to effectively require bank customers to change over from paper checks to "electronic cash." "Remember that during the financial crisis of the 1930s, when Franklin Roosevelt presented the American people with the alternative of a bank holiday/gold confiscation/Draconian financial controls (start ital)or(end ital) financial destruction, they willingly chose the former and gave up a major portion of their financial freedom." # # # The removal of cash, of course, will be advertised as having many benefits. Since drug dealers buy and sell their product with suitcases full of hundred-dollar bills, it will be alleged that the switch will end the drug trade (as though a multi-billion-dollar industry won't promptly hire both fancy accountants and computer geniuses to figure out how to "go electronic" without throwing blips on the IRS radar screens -- or as though they won't just add newly "illegal" hundred-dollar bills to the list of contraband they now freely move outside official channels.) Expect a public relations campaign to expose the "health hazard" of all those dirty pennies and nickels you have lying around the house. Passed from hand to hand among AIDS patients and tuberculosis-ridden junkies, how can you let your children handle such stuff? Instead, buy Sean and Alysson a new pair of color-coordinated, his-and-hers Kiddie Smart Cards, which neatly deduct exactly $1.77 from their accounts when they buy lunch at school, without burdening them down with filthy, wasteful, inconvenient (and expensive to produce) coins ... coins they might otherwise save up, after all, to buy dirty magazines, or reefer, or who knows what else? Yep, it's all for your health, safety, and convenience. And why would anyone object ... unless, of course, they had something to (start ital)hide(end ital). What was your name again? And could I have your 18-digit bank tracking number, please? You (start ital)are(end ital) in this country legally, aren't you? Not some kind of a federal fugitive/deadbeat dad? There, that's better. See how easy things are when you cooperate? Just slide your card through the security/debit slot. Now pass your wrist over the scanner to make sure your embedded personal chip has the matching security code. Thank you; you may now move along. We know you have a choice when you dine out; thank you for patronizing Burger World. # # # A full transcript of the "smart card online forum" session referred to at the beginning of this essay, as well as a biography and smart card white paper from each chat participant, can be accessed at http://www.golinharris.com/mastercard. Subscriptions to The McAlvany Intelligence Advisor ("in no way involved in the tax resistance, militia, or sovereign citizens movements in the U.S.") run a substantial $115 per year. Send subscription info to P.O. Box 84904, Phoenix, Ariz. 85071, or telephone 800-528-0559. Vin Suprynowicz is the assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas Review-Journal. Readers may contact him via e-mail at vin at lvrj.com. Vin's twice-weekly newspaper column, "The Libertarian," is syndicated in the United States and Canada via Mountain Media Syndications, P.O. Box 4422, Las Vegas Nev. 89127. Watch for Vin's book, "Send in the Waco Killers," coming from Huntington Press in early 1999. *** Vin Suprynowicz, vin at lvrj.com Education rears disciples, imitators, and routinists, not pioneers of new ideas and creative geniuses. The schools are not nurseries of progress and improvement, but conservatories of tradition and unvarying modes of thought. -- Ludwig von Mises The most difficult struggle of all is the one within ourselves. Let us not get accustomed and adjusted to these conditions. The one who adjusts ceases to discriminate between good and evil. He becomes a slave in body and soul. Whatever may happen to you, remember always: Don't adjust! Revolt against the reality! -- Mordechai Anielewicz, Warsaw, 1943 * * * ======================================================================= Don't believe anything you read on the Net unless: 1) you can confirm it with another source, and/or 2) it is consistent with what you already know to be true. ======================================================================= Reply to: ======================================================================= To subscribe to the free Scan This News newsletter, send a message to and type "subscribe scan" in the BODY. Or, to be removed type "unsubscribe scan" in the message BODY. For additional instructions see www.efga.org/about/maillist.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "Scan This News" is Sponsored by S.C.A.N. Host of the "FIGHT THE FINGERPRINT!" web page: www.networkusa.org/fingerprint.shtml ======================================================================= ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Tue Oct 13 05:23:50 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 20:23:50 +0800 Subject: IP: [FP] Boiling the frog: Much will depend on 'electronicmoney' Message-ID: > Below, please find the canonical anti-book-entry settlement privacy rant, >written by one of my favorite ranters in general, Vin Suprynowicz. ...which, of course, we've seen already. Sheesh. Sorry about that, folks. Call it mail-buffer overload, or something. :-). Sometimes it's not the the cross-fire, it's the ricochets which get you. Cheers, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From wburton at pipestream.com Tue Oct 13 05:35:57 1998 From: wburton at pipestream.com (Walter Burton) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 20:35:57 +0800 Subject: _PI_ movie Message-ID: <013D438ED22ED2119F630060082F763C08A75F@kenny.pipestream.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 My wife and I went and saw the movie _PI_ this past weekend. I was attracted to it 'cause of the subject matter. One reviewer wrote that the protagonist was a "tortured genius steeped in an intriguing blend of advanced mathematics and mystical Jewish cabala." I suspect a fair number of cypherpunks' curiosity would be piqued by such a description. Well, don't waste the 5 bucks. It's self-indulgent, pretentious, second-year-film-student crap. It's whiny, "woe-is-me-tortured-genius" drivel. It's "squinty-cinematography-for-the-sake-of-squinty-cinematography" effluvium. Here's the plot, in a nutshell: 1. Ah, I understand advanced mathematics SO WELL; I see patterns EVERYwhere! But alas, I cannot enjoy life's pleasures because I am, de rigueur, a TORTURED GENIUS! 2. And my mentor USED to be a TORTURED GENIUS, but he stopped studying THE PROFOUND MYSTERIES, and now he's happy and FUN! What a WUSS! [Oh yeah, and I suffer REALLY bad migraines.] 3. Isn't PI cool? 4. Aren't Fibonacci numbers neat? 5. Whaddya suppose The Holy Unspeakable Name of God is? 6. Oh, easy, it's 9049348384737...[insert 198 digits here]...32343. 7. I RUSH to tell my mentor what I've discovered, but, alas, my ruthless taunting prompted him to re-open his investigation of THE PROFOUND MYSTERIES and he couldn't hack it -- his brain overloaded and he died of a stroke. Damn! 8. So I dramatically BURN all my PROFOUND MYSTERIES conclusions and the director inserts the requisite "shocking scene everyone will be talking about" by having me lobotomize myself with an electric drill. 9. Next, I'm sitting on a park bench, playing games with a child (Quintessential Innocence). I am finally ENJOYING LIFE, appreciating the leaves on the trees and such. But this kid, she wants to play math games with me, which of course symbolizes the fact that IT'S NOT OVER! 10. The end. And it's all shot on shitty stock in crackly black and white. So basically, it's about two gay cowboys and some pudding. \\/alter -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.0 for non-commercial use Comment: For my public key, send a msg with "public key" in the subj. iQA/AwUBNiM/4I0Llo1Bf1gWEQJmsQCfXb10feuUz/N/Jn5zxkFqymmS+gQAoI/8 4QQzJGO4rtATMDQ7zbfm0I8P =kw8W -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From rah at shipwright.com Tue Oct 13 06:18:48 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 21:18:48 +0800 Subject: "It's a Hardware Problem..." Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Delivered-To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com X-Sender: believer at telepath.com Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 06:33:46 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Sandia Labs: Foiling Hackers: World's Smallest Combination Lock Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Precedence: list Reply-To: believer at telepath.com Source: EurekAlert! http://www.eurekalert.org/releases/snl-wsclpt.html EMBARGOED FOR RELEASE: 12 OCTOBER 1998 AT 02:00:00 ET US Contact: Chris Burroughs coburro at sandia.go 505-844-0948 Sandia National Laboratories "World's Smallest Combination Lock" Promises To Foil The Best Computer Hacker, Say Sandia Developers ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. -- The "world's smallest combination lock," a minuscule mechanical device developed at Sandia National Laboratories, promises to build a virtually impenetrable computer firewall that even the best hacker can't beat. The Recodable Locking Device, which uses microelectromechanical system (MEMS) technology so small that it takes a microscope to see it, is a series of tiny notched gears that move to the unlocked position only when the right code is entered. It's the first known mechanical hardware designed to keep unwanted guests from breaking codes and illegally entering computer and other secure systems. "Computer firewalls have always been dependent on software, which means they are 'soft' and subject to manipulations," says Larry Dalton, manager of Sandia's High Integrity Software Systems Engineering Department. "Our device is hardware and is extremely difficult to break into. You have one and only one chance in a million of picking exactly the right code compared to a one in 10,000 chance, with many additional chances, in most software firewalls. After one failed try, this new device mechanically shuts down and can't be reset and reopened except by the owner." Patent filed Sandia, a Department of Energy (DOE) national security lab, recently filed for a patent for the mechanism. The first working units were fabricated in July. The Sandia team, which is refining the device and doing reliability tests, expects to have it ready for commercialization in about two years. Once it is perfected, a commercial partner will be tapped to produce and sell it. "The Recodable Locking Device should be of great interest to businesses and individuals who have computer networks, have sites on the Web, or require secure computers," says Frank Peter, engineer who designed the device. "It would make it virtually impossible for break-ins to Web sites, like what occurred with The New York Times in September." (Hackers broke into the Times' electronic edition in mid-September and shut it down for several hours.) Computer crime is a growing problem nationwide. The Computer Security Institute together with the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) recently surveyed 520 security practitioners in US corporations, government agencies, financial institutions, and universities. Results showed that 64 percent of the respondents reported computer security breaches within the last 12 months. And although 72 percent said they suffered financial losses from these breaches, only 42 percent were able to quantify their losses -- estimating them to be more than $136.8 million. Dalton says he 'had the notion' of the device for three years, calling it the 'digital isolation and incompatibility' project. Digital was for the digital world, and isolation and incompatibility are important concepts in stronglinks, which are mechanical locks used as safety devices in weapons. He turned to Sandia's Electromechanical Engineering Department, headed by David Plummer, to do the design because of that group's expertise in stronglinks as well as its ability to design using the new MEMS technology. Simple system "It took about three months to go from concept to the final design," Peter says. "Based on a code storage scheme used successfully in existing weapon surety subsystems, we were able to design a very simple device -- and it's the simplicity of the device that makes it easy to analyze from a vulnerability standpoint." The Sandia Microelectronics Development Laboratory used Peter's design to build a working device, which consists of a series of six code wheels, each less than 300 microns in diameter, driven by electrostatic comb drives that turn electrical impulses into mechanical motion. The 'lock owner' sets a lock combination to any value from one to one million. The entire device is about 9.4 millimeters by 4.7 millimeters, about the size of a button on a dress shirt. The Recodable Locking Device consists of two sides -- the user side and the secure side. To unlock the device, a user must enter a code that identically matches the code stored mechanically in the six code wheels. If the user makes even one wrong entry -- and close doesn't count -- the device mechanically 'locks up' and does not allow any further tries until the owner resets it from the secure side. The six gears and the comb drives would be put on a small chip that could be incorporated into any computer, computer network, or security system. Because the chip is built using integrated circuit fabricating techniques, hundreds can be constructed on a single six-inch silicon wafer. The end result is that the device will be very inexpensive to produce. Plummer says Sandia is the only place where development of such a mechanism could have occurred. "That's due to the unique multilevel polysilicon fabrication process developed by Sandia and our heritage of designing mechanical locking devices," he says. Besides being a deterrent to hackers, the device has other security applications, Peter says. For example, controlled information could be made available only in a window of opportunity. The information owner could tell the party needing the data that he or she has five minutes to enter in a specific code and gain access. Then, after five minutes, the code would be reset and access denied. A variety of potential safety applications are also possible with the Recodable Locking Device. The mechanism can confirm that a critical system is operating as expected. And if it detects a problem, it will not permit execution of a function. In this safety capacity, the device could be used, for example, to ensure that a radiation therapy machine delivers the correct radiation dosage. "This device has a powerful potential -- one that is readily understood by most everyone," Dalton says. "I've been told by Department of Defense people that this is the first real technical advancement in information security that they've seen in a long time." Sandia is a multiprogram DOE laboratory, operated by a subsidiary of Lockheed Martin Corp. With main facilities in Albuquerque, N.M., and Livermore, Calif., Sandia has major research and development responsibilities in national security, energy, and environmental technologies and economic competitiveness. ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From nobody at replay.com Tue Oct 13 06:45:26 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 21:45:26 +0800 Subject: Hidden WebTV signatures Message-ID: <199810131310.PAA12090@replay.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- I have no idea to wherre to begin an analysis.... The begining is noticably the same. with more variation the farther along. A header or version identifier? obviosly can't be a straight hash. At 04:55 PM 10/11/98 , you wrote: > >On 11 Oct 1998 15:57:33 -0500, Anonymous wrote: > >> >>Peter Gutmann writes: >> >>> For those of you who don't read sci.crypt, Robert Ames has >>> posted an article in which he observes that all WebTV posts contain an >>> X-WebTV-Signature: line containing base64-encoded data. For samples of >>> WebTV-generated posts, try the alt.weemba newsgroup, which is filled with >>> WebTV-user drool (caution: remember to employ protection when exposting your >>> mind to the content of the messages). Some samples: >>> >>> X-WebTV-Signature: 1 >>> ETAsAhQDqtur/jfleJ2CDOnNrVoeyALEQAIUOQyCBbzjx5HHfxeMERDgCjztXOU= >>> X-WebTV-Signature: 1 >>> ETAtAhUAmCCzQt+Tqt6fNX+L9+gDCECaqQkCFA0YCPz5tk85mUgq7iX/u4vWvOgG >> >>Could someone grep their news spool for a few hundred of these signatures >>and post them here? We can do statistical analysis on them and determine >>whether they all appear to be modulo the same q value. > > >Here ya go. 313 webtv sigs > >-- Phelix > > > > ETAtAhQeHk0+b8Au0iGpkJrZtwhsU2MVoAIVAJR/nr45zMDoq1G526NRP+3jHVIb > ETAtAhUAiWMjaBJx75P5wCgIxslClcSUU4cCFHT6dVYU49dtEvX4HCI4bcmEiKBU > ETAsAhRLS36vm1OTCBG3CIAwMpdtg3fR1gIUdgWUE1cbbagEl7VbQvsengViPHc= -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Cyber-Knights Templar build 5.5.3ckt iQEVAwUBNiNNzaKPqmf00ZAbAQGtuwf8DCEKYf1rBbNCgCraoROS/62RfvZ6pmau nvt+5lF5r6Lk6xEEFz5XoMz+loIW/Y2MRZ9Wly9t9pIDa6r+o+g6AI3RMpjio0Mn b04MZL3uHLcKaxo7yThocc8CVUlQRoap7FfHPkMoUH04CpfJtWcS/E3IfsAPXovW w2XG6N9bEJbLyxc1I9dGSb63WRHE5ADbzgGkUKhNJirgZukdBLn/KMrnhsjeOlUT +sLMTHiH5/5NbXl+Te7+jV/BBUgYDnz3kZAZrQo0XTBzgG4J8ORg8s3NmCA0j120 vxpXTRgay43OYJEACLeRWhUcONdmdffuqqUQ5AmAaTDj9hRPZlPXNA== =U1Fq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From brownrk1 at texaco.com Tue Oct 13 06:56:11 1998 From: brownrk1 at texaco.com (Brown, R Ken) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 21:56:11 +0800 Subject: Soccer Moms? Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F84C8@MSX11002> In the middle of an interesting article about digital cash, forwarded here by Bob Hettinga, there was the line: > After all, the kind of soccer moms who elected Bill Clinton "Divided by a common language" as I am I genuinly don't know what that means. And I can't even guess from context. I'd have expected a dig at liberals or feminists or welfare recipients at that point; and I can't work out what soccer has to do with it. Do mothers play soccer much in the USA? Football (as the 95% of the world's population that aren't either English-speaking North Americans or else Rugby fans call the Beautiful Game) is associated in my mind with young men, specifically working class men. It's connotations are entirely macho, even violent. When a big match is on men gather in pubs and bars and shout at TVs whilst knocking back the lager. You avoid the centre of town if you don't want to risk getting involved in a fight. People get *killed* at football matches. That's pretty much true in every big city inthe world outside North America (and Japan where the fans are polite). This honestly isn't a troll - I am in fact bewildered by the phrase. Ken Brown From rah at shipwright.com Tue Oct 13 07:01:11 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 22:01:11 +0800 Subject: FYI: More on WebTV security Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text X-Sender: dstoler at gptmail.globalpac.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 05:38:59 -0700 To: Pablo Calamera , rah at shipwright.com, mac-crypto at vmeng.com From: dstoler at globalpac.com (dstoler) Subject: Re: FYI: More on WebTV security Cc: jimg at mentat.com Dear all, This message discusses Microsoft's recent press release where they announce unlimited 128 bit RC4 export approval for WebTV users in Japan and the UK with no key escrow. They announce secure email between WebTV users in addition to security for financial services, web shopping, etc. http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/1998/Oct98/EncryptionPR.htm (See the end of this message for key paragraphs of the press release.) I rarely post messages on the crypto mailing lists. I am sufficiently disturbed by Microsoft's recent WebTV press release that I feel compelled to comment. The press release implies that there is secure end-to-end email between two WebTV customers. Perhaps I am overly cynical, but I am guessing that they are using SSL (TLS) from a web based email application on the client to WebTV's servers. I presume email data is decrypted at the servers, then re-encrypted to the recipient when she uses the WebTV client to read email. This approach would allow access to private email at the servers by WebTV employees or law enforcement agencies. Note the careful use of the phrases "unauthorized party" and "without posing undo risks to national security and law enforcement" in the press release. I believe that WebTV's email security is directly coupled to their ability to establish and enforce good security policy within their operation and the trustworthiness of the employees who have access to sensitive data. I am concerned that carefully constructed wording of Microsoft's press release implies stronger email security than really exists. I hope I am wrong. David Stoler Key paragraphs from Microsoft's press release: WebTV Networks has been granted the first export license to use strong 128-bit encryption for any user and any application in Japan and the United Kingdom. So, for example, an e-mail message with personal information sent from a WebTV subscriber in Japan to a second WebTV subscriber in Japan will be sent securely because there is no known technology by which an unauthorized party could intercept and decipher it. Therefore, as part of the WebTV Network, the WebTV-based Internet terminal (starting at under $100) is now the most secure communications device available from a U.S. company. "WebTV Networks' export approval is a significant step for industry and reflects the U.S. government's commitment to promoting e-commerce abroad," said William Reinsch, U.S. undersecretary for export administration. "The WebTV Network provides secure communications for its customers and partners without posing undue risks to national security and law enforcement." --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From wburton at pipestream.com Tue Oct 13 07:32:39 1998 From: wburton at pipestream.com (Walter Burton) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 22:32:39 +0800 Subject: _PI_ movie Message-ID: <013D438ED22ED2119F630060082F763C08A781@kenny.pipestream.com> My wife and I went and saw the movie _PI_ this past weekend. I was attracted to it 'cause of the subject matter. One reviewer wrote that the protagonist was a "tortured genius steeped in an intriguing blend of advanced mathematics and mystical Jewish cabala." I suspect a fair number of cypherpunks' curiosity would be piqued by such a description. Well, don't waste the 5 bucks. It's self-indulgent, pretentious, second-year-film-student crap. It's whiny, "woe-is-me-tortured-genius" drivel. It's "squinty-cinematography-for-the-sake-of-squinty-cinematography" effluvium. Here's the plot, in a nutshell: 1. Ah, I understand advanced mathematics SO WELL; I see patterns EVERYwhere! But alas, I cannot enjoy life's pleasures because I am, de rigueur, a TORTURED GENIUS! 2. And my mentor USED to be a TORTURED GENIUS, but he stopped studying THE PROFOUND MYSTERIES, and now he's happy and FUN! What a WUSS! [Oh yeah, and I suffer REALLY bad migraines.] 3. Isn't PI cool? 4. Aren't Fibonacci numbers neat? 5. Whaddya suppose The Holy Unspeakable Name of God is? 6. Oh, easy, it's 9049348384737...[insert 198 digits here]...32343. 7. I RUSH to tell my mentor what I've discovered, but, alas, my ruthless taunting prompted him to re-open his investigation of THE PROFOUND MYSTERIES and he couldn't hack it -- his brain overloaded and he died of a stroke. Damn! 8. So I dramatically BURN all my PROFOUND MYSTERIES conclusions and the director inserts the requisite "shocking scene everyone will be talking about" by having me lobotomize myself with an electric drill. 9. Next, I'm sitting on a park bench, playing games with a child (Quintessential Innocence). I am finally ENJOYING LIFE, appreciating the leaves on the trees and such. But this kid, she wants to play math games with me, which of course symbolizes the fact that IT'S NOT OVER! 10. The end. And it's all shot on shitty stock in crackly black and white. So basically, it's about two gay cowboys and some pudding. \\/alter From jya at pipeline.com Tue Oct 13 07:45:34 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 22:45:34 +0800 Subject: Crypto Laxatives Message-ID: <199810131412.KAB25441@camel14.mindspring.com> Senators Lott and Kerrey have made crypto core dumps in recent days: http://jya.com/lott100998.txt http://jya.com/kerrey101298.txt Lott says 56-bit crypto is bad, and recites its weaknesses, reading a script he doesn't know shit about, hair and mind immutably fixatived. Kerrey Lincoln Monuments long dead Nat sec with Info Tech faux marbre, frutilessly limoing around DC torrist piles looking for The American People, while Super-Coifed Cohen aimlessly sends Cold War B52s to PR-bomb Menwith Hill targets -- unruly wildhair ups -- protecting what Kerrey can't find. Clinton and Yeltsin will shortly morph into Serbian hair ball. From jim at acm.org Tue Oct 13 08:55:16 1998 From: jim at acm.org (Jim Gillogly) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 23:55:16 +0800 Subject: Soccer Moms? Message-ID: <362371A1.4AE44412@acm.org> Ken Brown wonders about this phrase: >> After all, the kind of soccer moms who elected Bill Clinton >"Divided by a common language" as I am I genuinly don't know what that >means. And I can't even guess from context. "Soccer moms" are the suburban mothers who efficiently perform any number of child-rearing tasks, including taking their kids in a sports utility vehicle (an awful invention) to soccer practice. Soccer is increasingly popular and available to girls as well as boys. Women in general favored Clinton, and soccer moms in particular are the women most likely to vote... since they're doing everything else, working in a trip to the polls is nothing to them. Probably sounds as arcane as "Sloane Rangers" does over here, eh? -- Jim Gillogly Sterday, 22 Winterfilth S.R. 1998, 15:20 12.19.5.10.15, 6 Men 8 Yax, Eighth Lord of Night From update at relay2.liveupdate.com Tue Oct 13 09:14:23 1998 From: update at relay2.liveupdate.com (LiveUpdate News) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 00:14:23 +0800 Subject: Crescendo News - October 1998 Message-ID: <021932948130da8RELAY2@relay2.liveupdate.com> CRESCENDO NEWS - October 1998 Well, we're back from Internet World, and have a lot of exciting things to let you know about! The foliage in Massachusetts is finally turning color, the air is crisp, and it's almost time to start thinking about tuning up the snowboard. Here are some of the items covered in this newsletter: * Paula Cole's "I Don't Want To Wait" streams with Crescendo Forte * Crescendo Forte featured at Fall Internet World * Behind the scenes - how to create Crescendo Forte music * EP Release by Crescendo Forte artist "Gigi" * What is a "SYSX"? * Powerful authoring tools available in our online store * Subscribing / Unsubscribing ---------------------------------- PAULA COLE STREAMS WITH CRESCENDO FORTE Have you visited the Crescendo Forte Showcase lately? The latest addition to our growing showcase is the Crescendo Forte version of Paula Cole's hit single "I Don't Want To Wait". This is a historic event - Paula has become the first major artist *ever* to have her content featured using Crescendo Forte. As the winner of the 1998 Grammy for "Best New Artist", Cole's latest album "This Fire" has fostered three major singles including "I Don't Want To Wait," which has been pegged as the theme to the new hit TV series, Dawson's Creek. KizoMusic produced this incredible demo using Crescendo Forte to add high-quality drums, piano, and bass guitar to a RealAudio-encoded version of the original cut from the CD. You don't need anything more than a 28.8 modem and a Pentium-class PC to enjoy both the video and audio versions of this song. See and hear it for yourself at the Crescendo Forte Showcase, http://www.liveupdate.com/cforte/showcase.html. ---------------------------------- CRESCENDO FORTE FEATURED AT FALL INTERNET WORLD At the Fall Internet World conference earlier this month in New York City, standing-room-only crowds watched on and listened as RealNetworks presented the latest technology for music broadcast on the Internet. Featured in their presentation was Crescendo Forte, playing a video clip from Paula Cole. If you weren't able to make it to Internet World, you can still see and hear the Paula Cole clip by visiting the Crescendo Forte Showcase at http://www.liveupdate.com/cforte/showcase.html. ---------------------------------- BEHIND THE SCENES - HOW TO CREATE CRESCENDO FORTE MUSIC So your band has a CD to promote and you want to make the highest quality presentation over the Internet? RealSystem G2 and Crescendo Forte together deliver a rich listening experience requiring very low bandwidth. Learn how to take your existing music and publish it using Crescendo Forte with our new step-by-step production guide, available on-line at http://www.liveupdate.com/cforte/authoring.html. When you're done, send us your files for review and we may feature your music on the Crescendo Forte Showcase area! ---------------------------------- CD RELEASE BY CRESCENDO FORTE ARTIST "GIGI" If you liked what you heard from Gigi in the Crescendo Forte Showcase, you'll love her new 6-song CD! Part of Crescendo Forte's appeal is that it allows less-well-known acts such as Gigi to get broad exposure. To thank all of you for listening to her music, she has agreed to distribute her new CD, "Tinted Window", which contains full studio productions of her songs that are highlighted on the showcase, for just $6.95 including shipping & handling. Order on-line today at https://secure.liveupdate.com, and you'll receive the CD by mail, so that you can enjoy her music both on and off-line. ---------------------------------- WHAT IS A "SYSX"? You have probably seen an option in the Crescendo pull-down menu titled "Enable SYSEX Messages", and might have wondered what the option means. Crescendo PLUS supports playback of System Exclusive (SYSX) messages. Ever wonder how that General MIDI song you downloaded automatically configures delay, reverb, distortion, and patch edits while it plays? MIDI files use embedded SYSX messages to control synthesizer settings. Crescendo PLUS will detect and send these hidden SYSX messages to your synthesizer or sound card. Many commercially manufactured MIDI files contain SYSX messages, so you may not hear what the MIDI musician intended until you get Crescendo PLUS. Crescendo PLUS is available for $19.95 at our on-line store, https://secure.liveupdate.com. Get it now, and hear what you've been missing! ---------------------------------- POWERFUL AUTHORING TOOLS AVAILABLE IN CRESCENDO ONLINE STORE With the right tools, you can be a Crescendo composer. The Crescendo PLUS Roland Edition for Windows 95/98 has everything you need to create and play great music on the Internet. Here's what you get: *Cakewalk Express - record, edit, mix, and publish your own MIDI files *Do Re Mix - drag and drop ready-made musical parts to create instant songs *Crescendo PLUS for Internet Explorer and Netscape - play streaming music over the Internet *Virtual Sound Canvas software synthesizer - Orlando's wavetable instrument sounds for your PC *Plus over 100 ready-made MIDI song files to use in your productions The Crescendo PLUS Roland Edition, with all of the above, is available for $65, including shipping and handling! Visit http://www.liveupdate.com/soundcanvas.html for more details, or to order now. ---------------------------------- SUBSCRIBING / UNSUBSCRIBING You're receiving this email because you downloaded Crescendo in the past, and we want to keep you up to date with some of the exciting things that are happening at LiveUpdate. We hope you are enjoying Crescendo! Note: Messages from LiveUpdate to this list will not be sent any more frequently than once a month, and your information has not, and will not, be given to others or sold. If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, or if this message has been forwarded to you by a friend and you would like to subscribe to our newsletter, please send a message to newsletter at liveupdate.com. ******************************************* Spread the Music! From tcmay at got.net Tue Oct 13 09:22:41 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 00:22:41 +0800 Subject: Soccer Moms? In-Reply-To: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F84C8@MSX11002> Message-ID: At 6:28 AM -0700 10/13/98, Brown, R Ken wrote: >In the middle of an interesting article about digital cash, forwarded >here by Bob Hettinga, there was the line: > >> After all, the kind of soccer moms who elected Bill Clinton > >"Divided by a common language" as I am I genuinly don't know what that >means. And I can't even guess from context. I'd have expected a dig at >liberals or feminists or welfare recipients at that point; and I can't >work out what soccer has to do with it. > >Do mothers play soccer much in the USA? > >Football (as the 95% of the world's population that aren't either >English-speaking North Americans or else Rugby fans call the Beautiful >Game) is associated in my mind with young men, specifically working >class men. It's connotations are entirely macho, even violent. When a >big match is on men gather in pubs and bars and shout at TVs whilst >knocking back the lager. You avoid the centre of town if you don't want >to risk getting involved in a fight. People get *killed* at football >matches. That's pretty much true in every big city inthe world outside >North America (and Japan where the fans are polite). Theory 1: "Soccer moms" gather everyday to practice killing each other with broken bottles. Theory 2: Soccer (=football, outside the U.S.) has become a popular after school thing for girls and boys. More so than other sports. Mothers who don't work assume the role of ferrying the children to and from practice and games, watching them as they practice, etc. More common in affluent suburbs. The term "soccer mom" seems to have arisen in about 1992, as in the sentence: "In affluent Connecticut, soccer moms form the base of Presidential hopeful Bill Clinton's support." --Tim May Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From xenophon at serv.net Tue Oct 13 09:33:38 1998 From: xenophon at serv.net (xenophon at serv.net) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 00:33:38 +0800 Subject: _PI_ movie In-Reply-To: <013D438ED22ED2119F630060082F763C08A781@kenny.pipestream.com> Message-ID: <3623084C.FD708978@serv.net> I agree that there were one too many "tortured genius staring in the mirror while flooded by angst" scenes. Okay, perhaps two or three too many. That having been said, I found the themes interesting. Maybe I am sophomoric, but I will always find the fibonacci constant facsinating. I was impressed that the director did not overstep the bounds of his understanding of it and Kabbalah. Many directors who broach either topic have a tendency to take what little they know and extrapolate off into meaninglessness. Also, I liked the soundtrack, and the scene where the protaganist� is "saved" by the group of Hasids. (Were they in an Aries K car? I found that scene hilarious.) Yes, it was pretentious in parts; but given the topics this film concerned itself with, that was inevitable. And I would watch the film 3.1416...times a day for a week before I would watch any of the current slew of politcally correct propaganda pretending to be art that gets pumped out by Hollywood. I venture to guess that there was more to think about in Pi then there was in "One True Thing" or will be in "Beloved." 42,396. Er...no. 42,489. Um, wait. 23,777. yeah that's it.Xenophon P.S. Has anyone seen the 2nd edition of "Maximum Security" yet? Any reviews? � From jvb at ssds.com Tue Oct 13 09:49:41 1998 From: jvb at ssds.com (Jim Burnes) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 00:49:41 +0800 Subject: Soccer Moms? In-Reply-To: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F84C8@MSX11002> Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Oct 1998, Brown, R Ken wrote: > In the middle of an interesting article about digital cash, forwarded > here by Bob Hettinga, there was the line: > > > After all, the kind of soccer moms who elected Bill Clinton > > "Divided by a common language" as I am I genuinly don't know what that > means. And I can't even guess from context. I'd have expected a dig at > liberals or feminists or welfare recipients at that point; and I can't > work out what soccer has to do with it. > > Do mothers play soccer much in the USA? > etc... The answer you search for is: In US primary schools (mostly in affluent suburbs), soccer (football) is a very popular fall/winter sport for ages 7-14. Soccer moms are the mothers that haul their sons and daughters around after school and on Saturday mornings in minivans to these games. "Soccer moms" connotes a particular kind of woman. Its difficult to give you an exact definition although its usually slightly deragatory. Lets try to describe her: Middle to Upper Middle class White Mid-thirties Average Intelligence Thinks Bill Clinton is a Stud Probably a Career Mom and thinks working 9-5 in a big corporate arcology is a pretty neat thing (not relative to unemployment, but relative to others who think its a trap) Probably religious, either WASP, Catholic or Statist. This, at least, is the stereotype. YMMV. Jim From tcmay at got.net Tue Oct 13 09:49:56 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 00:49:56 +0800 Subject: New Technologies for Espionage Message-ID: It seems that the "old technologies" are approaching their end. This guy got caught by having too many physical contacts: -- walking into the Soviet embassy (well-known to be under surveillance) -- presumably using dead drops to exchange documents and money -- relying on a physical contact with an unknown person (whom he thought to be KGB, incorrectly) Digital dead drops and digital cash will eventually revolutionize spying. The digital dead drops are here now, though not the digital cash. --Tim May Tuesday October 13 11:49 AM EDT Ex-U.S. Army Analyst Arrested On Spy Charges WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A former U.S. Army intelligence analyst has been arrested on charges of spying for Russia by allegedly passing to KGB agents highly classified documents from 1988 to 1991, federal law enforcement officials said Tuesday. They said David Sheldon Boone, who worked for the military's super-secret National Security Agency, was scheduled to appear in federal court in Alexandria, Virginia, later Tuesday. According to the criminal complaint, Boone, who was arrested Saturday, began spying in 1988 after he walked into the Soviet embassy in Washington and volunteered his services. He was charged with meeting his Russian handler about four times a year between late 1988 and when he retired from the Army in 1991. Boone allegedly was paid more than $60,000 for the highly sensitive, top-secret documents he gave them. He allegedly gave the Russians documents about the capabilities and movements of Soviet forces and about Soviet tactical nuclear weapons. He also allegedly gave the Russians a document based on information that the National Security Agency, which conducts eavesdropping operations around the world, had intercepted. Boone was arrested after he was contacted in September by an individual who worked on behalf of the FBI, but whom he believed to be a Russian agent. According to the complaint, he had agreed to resume his espionage activities. From sbryan at vendorsystems.com Tue Oct 13 10:27:44 1998 From: sbryan at vendorsystems.com (Steve Bryan) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 01:27:44 +0800 Subject: FYI: More on WebTV security In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Has anyone hacked WebTV to enable a terminal to connect to a plain vanilla ISP (or better yet a local ethernet) or is it inexorably tied to their network of proxy servers? I get the impression that like a Newton or any other graphically limited device a WebTV browser would have to be aided by a proxy server that translates the content to more amenable form before it can take a crack at it. If it were possible to divorce it from their service it might be a nifty device for less than $100. This would become especially appealing if 128 bit crypto were thrown into the bargain. Steve Bryan Vendorsystems International email: sbryan at vendorsystems.com icq: 5263678 pgp fingerprint: D758 183C 8B79 B28E 6D4C 2653 E476 82E6 DA7C 9AC5 From hua at teralogic-inc.com Tue Oct 13 10:36:42 1998 From: hua at teralogic-inc.com (Ernest Hua) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 01:36:42 +0800 Subject: FBI to inaugurate national DNA database Message-ID: <004b01bdf6cb$23ad5d00$4164a8c0@mve21> I'm not talking about whether the FBI/NSA is setting us up politically; they may very well be doing just that. The point is that we need to win wars by winning battles, but it's hard to win battles by sticking to absolute principles and eventually third parties looking no longer find you credible. If we can stick to pointing out just how similar GAK/KR is to cameras in every bedroom, then we can win the battles and the war. If we just stick to either we get 100% of what we want or we don't want it, then the FBI/NSA can manipulate the public into thinking that we would never agree to anything the FBI/NSA wants. Remember ... we don't have what we want yet ... despite some of the rhetoric on this list, and the FBI/NSA is trying to win a war of attrition. Ern -----Original Message----- From: Brown, R Ken To: cypherpunks at cyberpass.net ; 'Ernest Hua' Date: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 2:56 AM Subject: RE: FBI to inaugurate national DNA database >> I think it would be a very bad idea for civil liberties >> groups to come out 100% against this. So far all they >> have said is that they intend to log all convicted criminals. >> If the C.L. groups complain about that, then it would be too >> easy for the FBI to turn around and say, "Geez! These guys >> complain about anything and everything we do!" > >I think you are falling for the old bazaar bargaining trick. The guy >wants to sell you a carpet that is worth a shekel. He reckons he can do >you for ten shekels. So he starts the bidding at a hundred and you >think you've done well when you've beaten him down to fifteen. America >is - cypherpunks tell me - a country where people worry about their >social security number being kept on databases, where caller id on >phones can be a hot political issue. This DNA business is far more >intrusive and dangerous than any of that. Don't fall for it! > >Don't fall for the argument that it is only the bad guys who get tagged. >They can define anyone they want as a bad guy. How many people do you >know who have never done anything for which they could be convicted as a >criminal? Never driven a car faster then the speed limit, never smoked >dope, never ridden a bicycle on the pavement, never been drunk in a >public place? To a large extent the set of "convicted criminals" is >governed by police or court decisions rather than by the actions of the >criminals. > >Over here in Britain we've had a long succession of intrusive, abusive >laws promulgated in the name of public safety, law and order, peace on >the streets. The previous government had their absurd "dangerous dogs >act" which became a laughing stock before the ink was dry then their >horrendous and evil "Criminal Justice Bill" with racist provisions >allowing the police to persecute travellers and uttely useless laws >against "music with repetitive beats" not to mention new rules to >control "young offenders, bailed persons, squatters, travellers, >ravers, protesters, trespassers, arrested persons, defendants, >hunt-saboteurs, pornographers, video pirates, obscene telephone-callers, >prisoners, racists, terrorists, ticket touts, cannabis-smokers, serious >fraudsters and not forgetting gay men under 18." > >The current lot aren't as bad, and are certainly more well-intentioned >but they haven't repealed any of the earlier stuff and are, bit by bit, >filling in the few gaps in the wall of regulation and legislation the >Tories built around anyone who wasn't a middle-aged white man who >worked 9 to 5, living in a suburb with a car and a mortgage, who never >went out. > >Our current Home Secretary (cabinet minister with responsibility for >police anong other things) was probably the first person in such a >position in any major country who was brought up by a single mother on a >violent estate (what you'd call a housing project in America) and he >thinks he knows - no he *does* know - what most ordinary people in >environments like that want from life. So he proposes law after law to >make things better, to tell people how they ought to live, all with the >best of intentions. Curfews for children (you ask questions and he will >just come back at you and say "do you *really* think 9-year-old children >should be wandering around on their own at night, or in gangs?" to which >the honest answer is "no, but it's none of your business if they do"). >Compulsory parenting education for parents whose children commit >crimes. A national register of paedophiles - which is made public, so a >couple of convicted child abusers, on being released from jail asked to >be taken back in again because their life wasn't safe outside. Defining >email that goes outside the country as "export" so that writing about >bombs (or cryptography?) can come under the strategic arms export >regulations. And so on. > >And all the while local councils put up cameras in every high street... From wllstrtmore at digisys.net Wed Oct 14 02:14:41 1998 From: wllstrtmore at digisys.net (wllstrtmore at digisys.net) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 02:14:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: INTERNET STOCKWATCH! I S M R Message-ID: <156874589632.GAA10987@smtp.207.115.225.192> Company: Internet Stock Market Resources Symbol: I S M R Price: 2 1/4 ($2.25/share) " I S M R is evolving into one of the internet's main financial web portals not unlike E*Trade in its future potential." As a featured stock in both Success and Opportunist magazines and as a content partner with Time Warner's Web TV I S M R is rated a "VERY STRONG BUY". For more information on I S M R go to: http://quote.yahoo.com/ plxII7. 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It's faster than ever before and now, as a subscriber, you get 35 FREE new pics every day, plus over 100 more at carefully selected FREE sites we link to. This email is never sent unsolicited. Stuffed is the supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full instructions on unsubscribing are in every issue of Eureka! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Tue Oct 13 13:01:59 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 04:01:59 +0800 Subject: What it's like to get a subpoena (re Toto) Message-ID: <199810131927.OAA07077@einstein.ssz.com> Hi, Just thought I'd pass along the latest news in the Toto/Carl Johnson/aka situation. I was visited by two nicely mannerd IRS agents this morning. We talked for about an hour or so about Cypherpunks, CJ, Austin, majordomo, etc. In the process I was served with a subpoena from the Western District of Washington to appear on Nov. 18, 1998 at 1:15pm in room 311 of the United States Courthouse (5th & Madison, Seattle, 98104). I explained how majordomo works, how to manipulate majordomo to get lists of subscribers (I used the SSZ subscriber list as an example), and described the time in July (I believe) when CJ/Toto/aka visited the local meeting. We also discussed the potential for altering email traffic through a remailer. I've made it clear I have no problems answering their questions but have no desire to go to Seattle in Nov. or any other time. They are looking into whether a deposition given here would be sufficient for their needs. Until then I'm getting ready for a 2-3 day trip to Seattle in Nov..... I'm currently trying to decide whether to scan and post the subpoena on the SSZ webpage. It's interesting that they requested archives of the list. I explained that I didn't archive the Cypherpunks or any of my other lists and that other than minimal configuration issues I don't even archive the OS that runs einstein (as it takes about 2 hours to rebuild from scratch from CD). Please don't call or send private email requesting further details. They didn't ask me to keep any of our discussion confidential but until I better understand what is going on I'm taking the conservative course (I had a big fight with myself about whether to even post this). ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From athena at cyberpass.net Tue Oct 13 13:29:03 1998 From: athena at cyberpass.net (Pallas Anonymous Remailer) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 04:29:03 +0800 Subject: The Value of Anonymous Remailers vs. Abuse Complaints and Abusive Comp Message-ID: < fa161f121ec06c2dd5b366ff7460fb12 at anonymous.poster> >The most frequent request we have been receiving >so far is, in fact, about the idendity of the >originator of the anonymous messages. Some >people are being polite, others are not. >Basically, all the ones who write to abuse@*.* >want to know the email address of the one who >has offended/harassed/spammed/blackmailed them. The idea to get across is that that information is not available. The snail mail services in various countries allow anonymous mail, after all, so why should e-mail be any different? People can deposit mail in public mailboxes with no return address on the envelope. People can call from payphones and not have the call traceable back to them. People should also be educated that a From: address, even when attached, cannot be relied upon for accuracy. At least anonymous e-mail lets the recipient know, in advance, that the sender wishes to conceal his/her true identity. >That is, it is true that a very significant % of >all messages which pass thru the mixmaster >network is just trash. > >Comments, anyone? Even "trash" is valuable as cover traffic to thwart traffic analysis, especially in the Mixmaster world where packets are intended to be virtually indistinguishable. Once remailer-operators get involved in value judgements as to which anonymous e-mail transactions have redeeming social value, we have sown the seeds of censorship. We empower the Gary Burnores of the world to censor by intimidation when content neutrality is not maintained. For example, if a certain signal to noise ratio were to be used as a criteria for the validity of the remailer net, then a self-destruct device has just been built into it. An attacker need only inject enough noise to exceed the threshold and bring the network down. Consider the episode last year with Gary Burnore and DataBasix vs. Jeff Burchell and his Mailmasher and Huge Cajones machines. Made-to-order abuse appeared right on cue to reinforce the claims that Burnore and his girlfriend Belinda Bryan had made. And now we've learned the real truth behind the whole episode. While Gary Burnore was living with another girlfriend in Santa Clara, CA, he was also molesting her teenaged daughter. An anonymous whistleblower attempted to warn the girl's mother as well as her school officials by anonymous e-mail. Burnore went ballistic and falsely claimed "harassment". But the whistleblower was ultimately vindicated when Burnore pled guilty to the molestation charge, was placed on probation, and was required to register as a sex offender. Unable to silence the whistleblower, Burnore began a campaign of harassment against the operators of the remailers that were being used to expose him. IOW, if you can't refute the message, shoot the messenger. And if you can't shoot the messenger, attempt to disable his means of communication (the remailers net). I recounted this case history, which can be researched in various usenet archives by anyone interested, just to demonstrate that one man's "harassment" can well be another man's investigative journalism, even if the journalist or whistleblower is not in a position to expose him/herself to retaliation by the wrongdoer, which has been (coincidentally?) reported by virtually anyone who has dared to challenge Gary Burnore publicly. From steelin at hotmail.com Wed Oct 14 04:29:06 1998 From: steelin at hotmail.com (steelin at hotmail.com) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 04:29:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: The guitar video everybodies talking about Message-ID: <199810141123.TAA20021@public.qd.sd.cn> ___________________________________________________________ Howdy! Just wanted to drop you a note to let you about my Video "Steelin' from the Steel",. If your anything like me, your always looking for something new that will help you spice up your playing and phrasing without too much effort, make you a better player...This is the video for you!!!! This video easily fills up your" bag of licks" with phrases that will make you a much more creative musician, than by learning a bunch of penatonic blues scales which have been taught into the ground. This video is by far the most interesting guitar instruction available. I sat down in the studio with one of the greatest L.A. tele players around. I'm on pedal steel and I proceeded to play all the interesting sounds on the steel guitar and Mike on tele plays them EXACT and explains how to play them. The sounds coming off his guitar and the new ideas that can come from these chord bends will open up some serious musical doors for you. We go through bends, fills, intros and licks galore... For the beginer to advanced player, very easy concepts to pick up and use in any style of music. It's nice to know you can easily become a much more creative musician with just a little effort and "Steelin' from the Steel." If your interested just click the link below and it will take you to my page offering the Video...I appreciate your time and till we meet out on the road....Gotta keep pickin'....Kevin http://www.clublickit.com/video3.htm From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Tue Oct 13 13:52:59 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 04:52:59 +0800 Subject: What it's like to get a subpoena (re Toto) In-Reply-To: <199810131927.OAA07077@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199810132014.VAA12469@server.eternity.org> Jim Choate writes about his visit from IRS agents in relation to Toto. Jim Choate writes: > I was visited by two nicely mannerd IRS agents this morning. We > talked for about an hour or so about Cypherpunks, CJ, Austin, > majordomo, etc. In the process I was served with a subpoena from the > Western District of Washington [...] > > I explained how majordomo works, how to manipulate majordomo to get > lists of subscribers (I used the SSZ subscriber list as an example), > and described the time in July (I believe) when CJ/Toto/aka visited > the local meeting. We also discussed the potential for altering > email traffic through a remailer. Perhaps they lack proof that the message in question was sent to the list, very little is signed, and Toto surrounded himself with forgeries. Not that it makes much difference that I can see -- the issue is surely whether CJ wrote the post, and whether the post and the AP mockup constitutes a credible threat. (That they apparently think Toto's AP mockup was credible shows a lack of understanding). > I've made it clear I have no problems answering their questions but > have no desire to go to Seattle in Nov. or any other time. They are > looking into whether a deposition given here would be sufficient for > their needs. Until then I'm getting ready for a 2-3 day trip to > Seattle in Nov..... I don't see why they're bothering you, I wonder if the other majordomo operators have received, or shortly will receive similar visits. Perhaps we could send archive URLs to Jeff Gordon. > I'm currently trying to decide whether to scan and post the subpoena > on the SSZ webpage. Sure please do. > It's interesting that they requested archives of the list. I would have thought Jeff Gordon, the IRS agent investigating Toto, would be subscribed to the list, at least via an alias. Also, there are several operational cypherpunks list archives remaining. > Please don't call or send private email requesting further > details. They didn't ask me to keep any of our discussion > confidential but until I better understand what is going on I'm > taking the conservative course (I had a big fight with myself about > whether to even post this). Well thanks for making it. I say make it all public, FWIW. Adam From nobody at replay.com Tue Oct 13 14:13:08 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 05:13:08 +0800 Subject: What it's like to get a subpoena (re Toto) Message-ID: <199810132044.WAA27037@replay.com> I haven't. >I don't see why they're bothering you, I wonder if the other majordomo >operators have received, or shortly will receive similar visits. From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Tue Oct 13 14:16:42 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 05:16:42 +0800 Subject: IRS wants cypherpunks archives Message-ID: <199810132040.VAA12715@server.eternity.org> Jeff, and fellow agents seem to be interested in cypherpunks archives (as evidenced by asking Jim Choate who operates one of the mailing list nodes, but who does _not_ offer archived list traffic). Jeff is Cc'd on this post to be helpful (who says cypherpunks aren't helpful -- you only have to ask). This archive seems to be operational: http://www.inet-one.com/cypherpunks/ And looks to cover the last year or so at least. The one at minder.net says 0 items available: http://www.minder.net/cgi-bin/lwgate.cgi/CYPHERPUNKS/archives/ so something appears wrong with that one (Brian?) and Ryan's sof.mit.edu archive is down still since the disk crash. Are there any others? I do have a reasonable set of archives going back to May '96 in RMAIL format, but am not too keen on mailing them due to bandwidth -- would take a few hours at 28.8k baud. (Also there seem to be some older archives on Remo Pini's crypto CD, but I think they are too old to be of interest to IRS). Adam -- print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Message-ID: Actually, we've been persistant victims of a misspelling, here. According to Rush Limbaugh, the true spelling, evidently, is "Sucker", not "Soccer" Moms. Just what they've been sucking, I suppose I would as an exercise to the reader, though I bet they didn't inhale more than once without getting a severe um, headache, and we all know that "blow" is just an expression... Cheers, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Tue Oct 13 14:40:50 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 05:40:50 +0800 Subject: What it's like to get a subpoena (re Toto) (fwd) Message-ID: <199810132108.QAA07675@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 21:14:41 +0100 > From: Adam Back > Subject: Re: What it's like to get a subpoena (re Toto) > Perhaps they lack proof that the message in question was sent to the > list, very little is signed, and Toto surrounded himself with > forgeries. True, there is also the issue of SMTP forgeries. Since there is no host authentication your security is as strong as your trust. His signing the message raises some interesting issues, especialy with the subsequent developments related to signature strength. > Not that it makes much difference that I can see -- the issue is > surely whether CJ wrote the post, and whether the post and the AP > mockup constitutes a credible threat. (That they apparently think > Toto's AP mockup was credible shows a lack of understanding). The officers I talked to in person admitted to not knowing about Bell or AP. Their interest seemed to be related solely to issues about threats to specific individuals or locations within the IRS infrastructure. My impression was that from their perspective this was just another subpeona delivery and interview. They each had a list of questions/notes and they basicly looked to be going down the list and filling in blanks. > I don't see why they're bothering you, I wonder if the other majordomo > operators have received, or shortly will receive similar visits. I raised the same issue with the agent in Seattle via phone. He seemed to comprehend the mundane role a mailing list operator leads, especialy since I don't keep archives nor moderate the traffic. He was at least willing to discuss depositions and such. If luck is on my side they'll let me explain how SSZ works in regards the CDR as well as what Toto/CJ/aka said to me directly via phone and in person. > Perhaps we could send archive URLs to Jeff Gordon. I made sure to explain how to get Cypherpunks archives via Yahoo with the two agents this morning. I also explained the very ad hoc nature of participation in the CDR and why users come and go. I even got to explain how the remailer works by using an example involving a spammer. They were quite clear on what a spammer was and how they distribute traffic. > > Please don't call or send private email requesting further > > details. They didn't ask me to keep any of our discussion > > confidential but until I better understand what is going on I'm > > taking the conservative course (I had a big fight with myself about > > whether to even post this). > > Well thanks for making it. I say make it all public, FWIW. I agree in principle. Now whether particular circumstances will allay their wills to mine is another issue entirely. In particular since I'm going to be testifying before a grand jury in Washington state versus Texas is something that tells me I don't know all the ground rules possibly. Especialy since I can't have a lawyer present during questioning (and I thought the only stipulation with council was a value exceeding $20), that bothers my Constitutional constitution more than I care to admit. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From mmotyka at lsil.com Tue Oct 13 15:21:14 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 06:21:14 +0800 Subject: DNA Message-ID: <3623C90E.51D1@lsil.com> > If we had a DNA sample of all world citizens, then the pesky problem > of the whole "it was either O.J. that was the killer or there's a one > in five billion chance it was someone else" would simply disappear. I'm not a biochemist but I don't think that this is accurate right now. I think modern DNA analysis yields data that bear more resemblance to a spectrum than anything else. In this case there is always a good possibility for error. Remember how large a project the Human Genome thing is? That is an actual sequencing project. ***** Rather than use this technology for law enforcement why not really try to make a Tyrannosaurus? That would seem to be a higher use. ***** When this new FBI project gets established just watch how wide a net they cast when defining who will be compelled to submit a sample! Then we'll have some crooked fuck selling info to the insurance companies. Or it will be legislated by the other crooked fucks. And pattern analysis will identify the guilty before they even think about committing an offense. Hell, they'll probably be able to ID the bad ones from samples coerced/stolen at birth and then all future opportunity and resource allocation will be effectively decided by the government, inc. Compromise? If this thing is not implemented with strict controls defining the type of offenses included then it is as offensive a totalitarian tool as anything else discussed on this list Mike Is there perhaps a good point to getting everybody in the country on this DNA database? Could it be that a single sample of DNA can be used to produce a large supply of that DNA which could then be used to fabricate evidence? You might say that the existence of the fabrication technology and the availability of seed material invalidates the evidence. From rah at shipwright.com Tue Oct 13 15:24:05 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 06:24:05 +0800 Subject: Soccer Moms? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 4:27 PM -0400 on 10/13/98, Robert Hettinga wrote: > Just what they've been sucking I suppose I would leave as an exercise to > the reader, though I bet they didn't inhale more than once without getting > a severe um, headache, and we all know that "blow" is just an expression... Okay, maaaaybe I was just a liiiitle bit misogynistic there. My considerable apologies to those I offended with the above... Cheers, Bob Hettinga PS: No, I didn't get any mail about this, it's a real-live, genuine, recantation. ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From vznuri at netcom.com Tue Oct 13 15:24:07 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 06:24:07 +0800 Subject: IP: Tracking: F.B.I.'s new national DNA database Message-ID: <199810132157.OAA09978@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Tracking: F.B.I.'s new national DNA database Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 02:05:53 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com Source: WorldNetDaily http://www.WorldNetDaily.com/exclusiv/981012_fbis_new_national_d.html F.B.I.'s new national DNA database Secret computer set to open for business The FBI is set open a new national DNA data base tomorrow, The New York Times reports. The data base, with a new generation of forensic DNA techniques, is designed to catch repeat offenders, but civil libertarians fear it will be expanded from people convicted of crimes to include almost everyone, giving the government inordinate investigative powers over citizens. The national DNA data base, housed in a secret location, actually consists of 50 data bases run by the states but unified by common test procedures and software designed by the FBI. As of tomorrow, the Times reports, it will be possible to compare a DNA sample from a suspect or crime scene in one state with all others in the system. � 1998 Western Journalism Center ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Tue Oct 13 15:24:57 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 06:24:57 +0800 Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.32: FBI & Privacy Advocates Battling Over Wiretapping Message-ID: <199810132157.OAA09989@netcom13.netcom.com> From: "ama-gi ISPI" Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.32: FBI & Privacy Advocates Battling Over Wiretapping Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 00:10:29 -0700 To: ISPI Clips 5.32: FBI & Privacy Advocates Battling Over Wiretapping News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) Monday October 12, 1998 ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This From: ABCNews.com, October 8, 1998 http://www.abcnews.com Privacy on the Line http://www.abcnews.com/sections/tech/DailyNews/wiretap981006.html Law enforcement and privacy advocates are battling over wiretapping boundaries in the digital age. By Michael Martinez ABCNEWS.com The FBI wants to be able to tap your cell phone. And it wants your phone company to pay for the privilege of allowing the FBI to tap your cell phone. That, at least, is the contention of privacy advocates and of the telephone industry, which is under federal mandate to open all new telecommunications technologies to wiretap access. Under the Communications Assistance to Law Enforcement Act, telecommunications companies are required provide wiretap capabilities for all of their new systems. Passed by Congress in 1994, CALEA mandated that telecommunications companies comply with access requirements by Oct. 25 of this year. That deadline, however, has been pushed back until June 2000 by the Federal Communications Commission as it tries to sort out just what the FBI is entitled to, and how much reimbursement telecom companies should get. Originally, CALEA set aside $500 million to pay for infrastructure upgrades on systems installed prior to Jan. 1, 1995. The United States Telephone Association and other industry groups want that cutoff point extended until 2000 as well, so that current systems are covered. Voice Mail for Dope Dealers? The telecommunications industry has introduced a wide range of popular � and profitable � services in recent years, everything from prepaid calling cards to Internet telephony to three-way calling. Cellular phones have become nearly ubiquitous, and newer models are almost entirely digital. Many customers have turned to third party voice-mail systems for message services. When most of these systems were designed and implemented, no thought was given to allowing federal or local law enforcement agencies access. The FBI says it�s entitled to access these services under current wiretap laws. Privacy advocates disagree. �The FBI has been trying to use CALEA to greatly expand its surveillance capabilities in ways never anticipated by Congress when it passed the law,� contends Barry Steinhardt, executive director of the Electronic Frontier Foundation. The telephone companies also disagree, at least in principle. More important, if forced by the government to comply, they want the federal government to pay for the technology necessary to make it happen. The FBI claims that a compromise proposal by the USTA, which represents local telephone companies, was too narrow, and excluded many of the technological advances that have made law enforcement�s job more difficult. �There have been situations in which we�ve obtained permission to wiretap, and we�ve been frustrated by the technology,� says Stephen Colgate, assistant U.S. attorney general for administration. �And the criminals know it. Things like voice mail and prepaid calling cards, these are the things used by the dope dealer or the bomb maker.� The Communications Haystack The USTA, however, says the FBI is overreaching by including services not covered by the original law. �The rules the FBI put forth in CALEA don�t follow the intent of Congress,� says Michelle Tober, communications manager for the USTA. �If the FBI wants this capability, it has to be granted to them by the FCC or under a new law by Congress.� The Electronic Frontier Foundation, along with the American Civil Liberties Union and the Electronic Privacy Information Center, have petitioned the FCC to limit law enforcement�s ability to gain access to new telecommunications services. �The problem with a wiretap is that it�s a general search,� Steinhardt says. �Only one in six conversations that are recorded are criminal in nature. Increasing law enforcement�s powers will mean more conversations recorded that have no bearing on investigations. We�re giving them the power to find a needle in a haystack.� The FBI defends its proposed rules, saying that they still fall under the original law allowing wiretaps, and that privacy will still be protected by the judiciary system. �We still have to go before the judge. We still have to justify the invasion of privacy in the courts,� Colgate says. �We�re not lowering the bar by any means. This industry has been investing significant amounts of capital into the infrastructure, and we�ve been losing (wiretap) capability steadily.� Copyright (c)1998 ABCNEWS and Starwave Corporation. --------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------ ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research and educational purposes only. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases (up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message "Please enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to: ISPIClips at ama-gi.com . The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia (Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no government funding and takes a global perspective. ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research into electronic, personal and financial privacy with a view toward helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy. But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and generous financial support. If you value in the ISPI Clips service or if you are concerned about the erosion of your privacy in general, won't you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI Clips Supporter" or by taking out an institute Membership? We gratefully accept all contributions: Less than $60 ISPI Clips Supporter $60 - $99 Primary ISPI Membership (1 year) $100 - $300 Senior ISPI Membership (2 years) More than $300 Executive Council Membership (life) Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership. For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com . We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to any third party. ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Tue Oct 13 15:25:30 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 06:25:30 +0800 Subject: IP: Tracking: NYT on FBI's Nat'l DNA Database Message-ID: <199810132157.OAA10000@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Tracking: NYT on FBI's Nat'l DNA Database Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 03:10:00 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com Source: New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/news/national/dna-data-base.html October 12, 1998 F.B.I. Set to Begin Using National DNA Database By NICHOLAS WADE In a computer at a secret location, the FBI will open a national DNA database on Tuesday that advocates say could significantly reduce rape and other crimes by helping to catch repeat offenders earlier. The data base, with a new generation of forensic DNA techniques, promises to be so efficient that some civil libertarians fear it will be expanded from people convicted of crimes to include almost everyone, giving the government inordinate investigative powers over citizens. The national DNA data base consists of 50 data bases run by the states but unified by common test procedures and software designed by the FBI. As of Tuesday, it will be possible to compare a DNA sample from a suspect or crime scene in one state with all others in the system. The national data base has been nearly a decade in the making. The final pieces fell into place in June when Rhode Island became the last state to set up a DNA data base. But the system still faces many unresolved issues, which are likely to play out according to the reaction from the public and the courts. One such issue is what types of offenders should be included. Another is whether the mass screening of suspects' DNA will prove constitutional. DNA, the chemical that embodies a person's genetic programming, can be found almost everywhere. People shed a constant torrent of dead skin cells. Criminals leave blood when breaking and entering; they shed hair and skin cells in fights, deposit saliva on glasses and leave sweat stains in head bands. From only a few cells in such sources, enough DNA can be extracted to identify the owner. A DNA database of sufficient size could presumably help solve many crimes. The crime-fighting potential of DNA data bases is becoming evident from the experiences of Britain, which started earlier and has had fewer administrative and constitutional hurdles to overcome. The data base there initially focused on sex offenses but has spread to include burglaries and car theft because of the high number of DNA matches that police forces were obtaining. Moreover, there was considerable crossover at least in Britain, among different kinds of offenses. "People who commit serious crime very often have convictions for petty crime in their history, so if you could get them on the data base early you may prevent serious crime," said David Werrett, manager of the DNA data base for England and Wales. The English DNA data base includes entries from crime scenes and from everyone convicted of a crime, as well as from suspects in unresolved cases. Since the system's debut in 1995, it has matched 28,000 people to crime scenes and has made 6,000 links between crime scenes. The data base now holds 360,000 entries and Werrett said he expected it would eventually include one third of all English men between 16 and 30, the principal ages for committing crimes. Werrett said that the data base has grown because police forces in England, which pay $55 for a DNA analysis, are finding it cost effective. Recently the Police Superintendents Association called for the entire population to be DNA tested. Forensic use of DNA in the United States is unlikely to go as fast or as far as in Britain. "Their system makes a tremendous amount of sense the way they approach it, but in the United States we have a different perspective on privacy and on the extent to which we would be willing to depend on a data base," said Christopher Asplen, executive director of the national Commission on the Future of DNA Evidence. One major privacy safeguard in the FBI's system is that only a minute fraction of a person's genetic endowment becomes part of the data base. Under a new DNA profiling system known as STR's, for short tandem repeats, a person's DNA is tested at 13 specific sites at which a short length of DNA is repeated in a kind of stutter. The number of repeats is highly variable from one person to another, so that measuring the number of repeats at the 13 designated sites gives a way of identifying each individual with a probability of one in several billion. The blood or other samples donated by individuals are retained by the states in collections known as DNA banks. All that goes into the computerized DNA data bases is the set of 13 numbers from the STR measurements. Only identifying information, and nothing about a person's health or appearance, can be divined from the STR's. Access to the DNA data base is permitted only for law enforcement purposes, with a $100,000 fine for unauthorized disclosures. No known breaches of the system have occurred. One major unresolved issue is that of the types of offenders from whom DNA profiles should be taken. All states require people convicted of serious sexual offenses to donate blood samples, but differ on requiring samples from other groups such as people convicted of violent felonies, juvenile offenders and parolees. Four states -- Virginia, Wyoming, New Mexico and Alabama -- require all people convicted of a felony to provide samples for DNA profiling. Louisiana allows DNA to be taken from people merely arrested in a crime, a practice that has not been tested in the courts. State laws establishing DNA data bases have been challenged in 13 jurisdictions and have been upheld in all but one, in Massachusetts. Some states have revised their original legislation to add offenses. "I think the trend is that 10 years from now all felonies will be covered," said M. Dawn Herkenham, chief of the FBI's Forensic Science Systems Unit in Washington. "We recommend that all violent felonies, burglaries, juveniles and retroactivity for people on parole be included." >From his office in Birmingham, England, last week, Werrett said, "Today we have issued matches on three murders, five rapes, nine serious robberies, two abductions and two violent burglaries." No state DNA data base has acquired the critical mass to furnish such a hit rate. Many state laboratories are understaffed and have large backlogs of DNA samples to analyze. The backlogs are particularly worrisome in the case of rapes where specimens may lie unanalyzed while the rapist assaults more victims. "People may be appalled to know how many rape suspect kits are out there untouched," Ms. Herkenham of the FBI said. "The hit ratio depends on whether we can go back and examine all the evidence that comes in the door," said Dr. Barry Duceman, director of biological science in the New York State Police Forensic Investigation Center in Albany. "We are trying to address a crushing case backlog and to get the technology on line -- you'd be hard pressed to say we are overstaffed." The case backlog problem is compounded because state laboratories are switching to the STR method of DNA profiling from an older method of analysis called RFLP (for restriction fragment length polymorphism). All the samples analyzed by RFLP must be redone by STR if they are to be searchable in the new data base. When these teething problems are overcome, many experts believe that the state and national DNA data base systems may have a significant effect, particularly in reducing crimes like rape that often involve repeat offenders. By scoring a "cold hit" between crime scene data and a person, DNA data bases can be particularly effective in solving cases with no suspects. "Once we get that infrastructure in place and start getting those hits, the benefits will lead to higher utilization," Asplen said. But like other experts involved with DNA testing, he expressed concern that DNA profiling be developed in a publicly acceptable way. "The public does need to have a trust level with this and be assured that law enforcement is not going to abuse this powerful tool," he said. One practice likely to raise eyebrows, if not hackles, is mass screening, which is widely used in the United Kingdom but not yet commonplace here. In high profile crime cases, police in Britain often ask, and can require, all members of a town or building to give DNA samples so as to prove themselves guiltless and help narrow the search for the culprit. The National Commission on the Future of DNA Testing is examining under what circumstances the donation of samples can be considered voluntary. In an office, where employees who declined to donate a sample might be fired, a police request for DNA might be coercive. A future use of DNA testing is that of phenotypic analysis. It will soon be technically possible to infer from the genes in a person's DNA many probable aspects of their appearance, such as hair, skin and eye color. Werrett said the main problem with such predictions would lie in training police to understand their probabilistic nature: told there is a 90 percent chance that the suspect has red hair, investigators should not ignore the 10 percent chance that he does not. DNA reveals so much about a person that behavioral geneticists might wish to search through state data banks for genetic variants linked to criminal behavior. Most states say their DNA data banks can be accessed only for law enforcement purposes, like the data bases. But Alabama authorizes the use of its samples for "educational research or medical research or development," an apparent invitation to genetic inquiry. An impending issue is whether states should retain their DNA samples once the information has been entered into the DNA data base. Forensic managers like to retain samples as a hedge against changing technology. Others say the DNA sample banks create an opportunity for abuse, and that if there is another change in technology the government should just rebuild its data base from scratch. Because DNA can be found at so many crime scenes, DNA data bases promise to be powerful aids in catching criminals. But what thrills forensic experts tends to chill civil libertarians. "The DNA data base started out with pariahs -- the sex offenders -- but has already been enlarged to include other felons and will probably be extended to include everyone, giving elites the power to control 'unruly' citizens," said Philip Bereano a professor of technology and public policy at the University of Washington in Seattle. Dr. Eric Juengst, a bioethicist at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland and a member of the FBI's DNA Advisory Board, said the original policy in setting up the DNA data base was that it was "suitable only for our most serious category of criminals," and that it would be a breach of that policy to expand its scope. The risks raised by Bereano are worth watching, Juengst said, "but as a society we have to learn how to control powerful tools of all kinds, like nuclear power. I don't see it as an endless slippery slope." Copyright 1998 The New York Times Company ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Tue Oct 13 15:25:48 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 06:25:48 +0800 Subject: IP: "The Billion Dollar Terror Rumor" Message-ID: <199810132157.OAA10046@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: "The Billion Dollar Terror Rumor" Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 06:31:30 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com Source: Salon Magazine http://www.salonmagazine.com/news/1998/10/08newsa.html The billion-dollar rumor How unsubstantiated reports that the World Trade bombers may have included nerve gas in their arsenal led to some pretty pricey public policy. BY JEFF STEIN It began as rumor, then became fact. Fact became alarm. And alarm led to a rallying cry for a multimillion-dollar federal program that has now itself ricocheted out of control. Kenneth Starr's investigation of President Clinton? No, it's the federal budget for countering a doomsday attack by terrorists armed with chemical and biological weapons. The rumor in this case was that terrorists had put deadly sodium cyanide into the monstrous February 1993 World Trade Center bomb that killed six people, injured more than 1,000, blasted a seven-story hole underneath the twin towers and created panic in the streets of lower Manhattan. The blast should have turned any sodium cyanide present into hydrogen cyanide, unleashing a poisonous cloud that could have instantly killed hundreds or thousands more people. That is, had any sodium cyanide been there. According to a thorough, as yet unpublished study of the incident by an arms-control think tank at the Monterey Institute for International Studies, there is no evidence to support the long-swirling assertion, which first surfaced in the solemn pronouncement of a respected federal judge in 1994. The rumor then made its way into scores of newspaper articles and was cited by leading U.S. senators to support anti-terrorist initiatives that have amounted to billions of dollars, many of them unaccounted for, according to a recent investigation by congressional auditors. John Parachini, a senior associate at the Monterey Institute, made a draft of the study available after being contacted by Salon. Word of his findings has been circulating in the community of Washington terrorism experts. "I'm not against spending money for defending against chemical and biological weapons," Parachini said in an interview, "but we ought to know why we're spending for it, and to get the facts straight." In his study, Parachini noted that the World Trade Center bombers considered using chemical weapons, but did not -- an important fact for government terrorism specialists to ponder. "Examining the motivations and behaviors of terrorists who would have used a chemical weapon if it was available, but did not, may offer important lessons about how to thwart such attacks in the future," he writes. Parachini traced the origins of the cyanide gas story to the first trial of World Trade Center bombers in 1994, when federal prosecutors raised the specter of a chemical bomb, no doubt to darken the jury's view of the defendants. The theme was picked up by presiding federal Judge Kevin Duffy in his sentencing statement to the stone-faced defendants. "You had sodium cyanide around, and I'm sure it was in the bomb," the judge intoned. "Thank God the sodium cyanide burned instead of vaporizing. If the sodium cyanide had vaporized, it is clear what would have happened is the cyanide gas would have been sucked into the north tower and everybody in the north tower would have been killed. That to my mind is exactly what was intended." The judge may have been "sure it was in the bomb," but the defendants were never even charged under anti-terrorism statutes that make mere possession of potential chemical and biological weapons a federal crime, Parachini noted. The rumor's origins date back to an earlier raid by the FBI of a New Jersey storage shed rented by the suspects. The agents found one sealed bottle of sodium cyanide in aqueous form. Aqueous sodium cyanide is used for photographic purposes and can cost less than $3 per pound, Parachini noted in his study, after consulting chemical experts. But it is sodium cyanide in solid form, usually briquettes costing many hundreds of dollars more, that can be effective as a chemical weapon when it's converted to hydrogen cyanide gas by a blast. Nevertheless, the federal prosecutor in the initial World Trade Center trial raised the idea of a chemical bomb when questioning a senior FBI official, Steven Burmeister, about the consequences of mixing sodium cyanide with other chemicals present in the bomb. Burmeister testified that "if you breathe that gas I'm afraid you've breathed your last breath." Despite this "chilling testimony," however, "Burmeister never suggested during the trial that his investigation had led him to believe that the bomb actually contained sodium cyanide," Parachini writes -- and the trial transcript proves. In addition, an FBI chemist who participated in the case told Parachini flatly, "There is no forensic evidence indicating the presence of sodium cyanide at the bomb site." Judge Duffy's statement to the contrary, however, gave legs to the notion that the defendants had made -- or tried to make -- a chemical bomb. No less an authority than Maj. Gen. George Friel, the former head of the U.S. Army's Chemical and Biological Defense Command, told Gannett News Service that the World Trade Center bombers may have attempted to mix a toxic agent -- most likely arsenic -- with the bomb they planted in the garage of the building. That was a new one to federal investigators. Neither FBI agents nor prosecutors mentioned arsenic as a bomb ingredient in the trial. Despite the nonexistent evidence, however, Judge Duffy's charge was taken up by two influential senators, Richard Lugar, R-Ind., and Sam Nunn, D-Ga., who called it "a warning bell." "The trial judge at the sentencing of those responsible for the World Trade Center bombing pointed out that the killers in that case had access to chemicals to make lethal cyanide gas ... and probably put those chemicals into that bomb that exploded," Nunn said during a 1996 floor debate on a multibillion-dollar bill aimed at bolstering U.S. defenses against weapons of mass destruction. Lugar also cited Judge Duffy's statement as evidence of "how close we have come to witnessing acts of terrorism involving weapons of mass destruction directed toward the United States." He urged his Senate colleagues to "listen to Judge Duffy," and compared the World Trade Center bomb to both the 1995 sarin gas attack on the Tokyo subway by Japanese cultists and the placement of a radioactive package in a Moscow park. The media were next to pick up Duffy's theme. One typical story, in the Los Angeles Times in July 1996, stated, "The World Trade Center bombers had sodium cyanide, which if used ... would have released poison gas, vastly increasing the fatalities in New York, intelligence officials said." Syndicated columnist Trudy Rubin cited Judge Duffy in the course of applauding "some farsighted lawmakers trying to confront the unthinkable." The Nunn-Lugar bill, which included $235 million for training local "first responders" to a chemical or biological attack, passed 100-0. But that was merely the gateway to a mushrooming federal anti-terrorism crusade that now costs upwards of $1 billion a year -- and perhaps twice that, according to some experts -- and that last week led to the creation of the Defense Threat Reduction Agency, which will "spend hundreds of millions of dollars in research for better sensors and technology to detect biological and chemical weapons," according to the Associated Press. Counter-terrorism may be the magic word for funding programs in Washington today, but a withering audit by the General Accounting Office has raised questions about where the money is going: "More money is being spent to combat terrorism without any assurance of whether it is focused in the right programs or in the right amounts,'' said Richard Davis, a GAO auditor specializing in weapons of mass destruction. "Billions of dollars are being spent by numerous agencies with roles or potential roles in combating terrorism, but because no federal entity has been tasked to collect such information across the government, the specific amount is unknown,'' the GAO said in its most recent report on terrorism. "Further, no government-wide spending priorities for the various aspects of combating terrorism have been set.'' Meanwhile, past studies have cautioned that while chemical or biological weapons may be cheaper and easier to make than nuclear bombs, terrorists have shied away from using them. Despite past allegations, neither the Red Army Faction, the Beider-Meinhof Gang nor the Weather Underground ever used them, Parachini concluded. Ramzi Ahmed Yousef, the convicted mastermind of the World Trade Center blast, made the point himself while flying back in custody from Pakistan, where he was captured in 1996, the Monterey Institute study notes. "Yousef ... revealed to U.S. Secret Service agent Brian Parr that the WTC bomb did not contain sodium cyanide or any other poison, but that he had planned to use 'hydrogen cyanide in some other form of a bomb, not as large a bomb, but a different type of bomb to disperse that [poison] in the Trade Center,'" the study says. "Yousef told Parr that he had decided not to take this approach because 'it was going to be too expensive to implement.'" The judge may have been "sure it was in the bomb," but the defendants were never even charged under anti-terrorism statutes that make mere possession of potential chemical and biological weapons a federal crime, Parachini noted. The rumor's origins date back to an earlier raid by the FBI of a New Jersey storage shed rented by the suspects. The agents found one sealed bottle of sodium cyanide in aqueous form. Aqueous sodium cyanide is used for photographic purposes and can cost less than $3 per pound, Parachini noted in his study, after consulting chemical experts. But it is sodium cyanide in solid form, usually briquettes costing many hundreds of dollars more, that can be effective as a chemical weapon when it's converted to hydrogen cyanide gas by a blast. Nevertheless, the federal prosecutor in the initial World Trade Center trial raised the idea of a chemical bomb when questioning a senior FBI official, Steven Burmeister, about the consequences of mixing sodium cyanide with other chemicals present in the bomb. Burmeister testified that "if you breathe that gas I'm afraid you've breathed your last breath." Despite this "chilling testimony," however, "Burmeister never suggested during the trial that his investigation had led him to believe that the bomb actually contained sodium cyanide," Parachini writes -- and the trial transcript proves. In addition, an FBI chemist who participated in the case told Parachini flatly, "There is no forensic evidence indicating the presence of sodium cyanide at the bomb site." Judge Duffy's statement to the contrary, however, gave legs to the notion that the defendants had made -- or tried to make -- a chemical bomb. No less an authority than Maj. Gen. George Friel, the former head of the U.S. Army's Chemical and Biological Defense Command, told Gannett News Service that the World Trade Center bombers may have attempted to mix a toxic agent -- most likely arsenic -- with the bomb they planted in the garage of the building. That was a new one to federal investigators. Neither FBI agents nor prosecutors mentioned arsenic as a bomb ingredient in the trial. Despite the nonexistent evidence, however, Judge Duffy's charge was taken up by two influential senators, Richard Lugar, R-Ind., and Sam Nunn, D-Ga., who called it "a warning bell." "The trial judge at the sentencing of those responsible for the World Trade Center bombing pointed out that the killers in that case had access to chemicals to make lethal cyanide gas ... and probably put those chemicals into that bomb that exploded," Nunn said during a 1996 floor debate on a multibillion-dollar bill aimed at bolstering U.S. defenses against weapons of mass destruction. Lugar also cited Judge Duffy's statement as evidence of "how close we have come to witnessing acts of terrorism involving weapons of mass destruction directed toward the United States." He urged his Senate colleagues to "listen to Judge Duffy," and compared the World Trade Center bomb to both the 1995 sarin gas attack on the Tokyo subway by Japanese cultists and the placement of a radioactive package in a Moscow park. The media were next to pick up Duffy's theme. One typical story, in the Los Angeles Times in July 1996, stated, "The World Trade Center bombers had sodium cyanide, which if used ... would have released poison gas, vastly increasing the fatalities in New York, intelligence officials said." Syndicated columnist Trudy Rubin cited Judge Duffy in the course of applauding "some farsighted lawmakers trying to confront the unthinkable." The Nunn-Lugar bill, which included $235 million for training local "first responders" to a chemical or biological attack, passed 100-0. But that was merely the gateway to a mushrooming federal anti-terrorism crusade that now costs upwards of $1 billion a year -- and perhaps twice that, according to some experts -- and that last week led to the creation of the Defense Threat Reduction Agency, which will "spend hundreds of millions of dollars in research for better sensors and technology to detect biological and chemical weapons," according to the Associated Press. Counter-terrorism may be the magic word for funding programs in Washington today, but a withering audit by the General Accounting Office has raised questions about where the money is going: "More money is being spent to combat terrorism without any assurance of whether it is focused in the right programs or in the right amounts,'' said Richard Davis, a GAO auditor specializing in weapons of mass destruction. "Billions of dollars are being spent by numerous agencies with roles or potential roles in combating terrorism, but because no federal entity has been tasked to collect such information across the government, the specific amount is unknown,'' the GAO said in its most recent report on terrorism. "Further, no government-wide spending priorities for the various aspects of combating terrorism have been set.'' Meanwhile, past studies have cautioned that while chemical or biological weapons may be cheaper and easier to make than nuclear bombs, terrorists have shied away from using them. Despite past allegations, neither the Red Army Faction, the Beider-Meinhof Gang nor the Weather Underground ever used them, Parachini concluded. Ramzi Ahmed Yousef, the convicted mastermind of the World Trade Center blast, made the point himself while flying back in custody from Pakistan, where he was captured in 1996, the Monterey Institute study notes. "Yousef ... revealed to U.S. Secret Service agent Brian Parr that the WTC bomb did not contain sodium cyanide or any other poison, but that he had planned to use 'hydrogen cyanide in some other form of a bomb, not as large a bomb, but a different type of bomb to disperse that [poison] in the Trade Center,'" the study says. "Yousef told Parr that he had decided not to take this approach because 'it was going to be too expensive to implement.'" SALON | Oct. 8, 1998 Jeff Stein covers national security issues for Salon. ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Tue Oct 13 15:26:04 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 06:26:04 +0800 Subject: IP: Fw: Every word on the Internet is recorded for ALL time Message-ID: <199810132157.OAA10023@netcom13.netcom.com> From: Jon Roland Subject: IP: Fw: Every word on the Internet is recorded for ALL time Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 17:09:43 -0800 To: "C.Bryson Hull" , misc-activism-militia at moderators.uu.net ------------------------ From: "Adolph V. Stankus" Subject: Every word on the Internet is recorded for ALL time Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 15:13:34 -0700 To: A Message For You http://search.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1998-10/11/129l-101198-idx.ht ml Washington Post, Sunday, October 11, 1998; Page C01 Your Past Is Your Future, Web-Wise By Joseph D. Lasica SAN FRANCISCO, Calif.-Our past now follows us as never before. For centuries, refugees sailed the Atlantic to start new lives. Easterners pulled up stakes and went west to California. Today, however, reinvention comes less easily and second chances seem more remote. You may leave town, but your electronic shadow stays behind, as anyone who has ventured onto the Internet well knows. We often view the Internet as a communication medium or an information-retrieval tool, but it's also a powerful archiving medium that takes snapshots of our digital lives--which can be stored forever. It's not just official documents or consumer profiles about us that are being collected, but the very essence of our daily online existence: Our political opinions, prejudices, religious beliefs, sexual tastes and personal quirks are all becoming part of an immense media goop that is congealing into a permanent public record. What is different about the digital archiving phenomenon is that our beliefs, habits and indiscretions are being preserved for anyone to see--friends, relatives, rivals, lovers, neighbors, bosses, landlords, and even obsessed stalkers. Take all those ordinary Web pages that many of us have created in a burst of enthusiasm with the new medium. People assume that their home pages disappear once they pull the plug. Not necessarily. Sure, browsers and search engines give you a "404: File Not Found" message when you call up outdated Web pages. But those pages live on in other electronic nooks and crannies. Since 1986, the Internet Archive, a kind of digital warehouse, has been trolling the Web and hoarding everything it comes across--text, images, sound clips. Every two months, it scoops up the entire Web and stores the results on its virtual shelves. It has preserved my expired site, and it may well have yours. Similarly, postings to the Internet's 33,000 news groups may fall off the edge of Usenet after a week or so, but they live on in databases such as Deja News and the Internet Archive. Marie Coady, a freelance writer in Woburn, Mass., was appalled to discover that her posts to online-news, a small, cozy listserv of 1,350 news professionals, was available to anyone through dozens of search engines on the Web. "I consider it an invasion of privacy to have words typed in response to a query chiseled in stone," she said. "In light of our litigious society, it could be dangerous to post any message at all." Many moderators post occasional notices about a list's public archiving policy. But not all do, and few users read the fine print, anyway. "The odd thing is, we perceive the Net as a conversation and not as public record, and it turns out to be public record to a larger extent than people are aware of," said Bruce Schneier, a cryptography consultant and co-editor of "The Electronic Privacy Papers," a 1997 book. "You can easily imagine in 20 years a candidate being asked about a conversation he had in a chat room while he was in college. We're becoming a world where everything is recorded." Beyond the question of informed consent lie larger questions: Should all of this electronic flotsam and jetsam be archived in the first place? What are the consequences for us if our digital footprints survive indefinitely? Who should decide whether they do survive? The answers are hardly comforting, especially for those given to strong displays of emotion or opinion online. "We're now entering an era where tens of millions of people are speaking on the record without any understanding of what it means to speak on the record, and that's certainly unprecedented," says David Sobel, general counsel for the Electronic Privacy Information Center in Washington. "It is suddenly becoming impossible to escape your past." Your children and grandchildren not yet born will be able to reconstruct a record of your digital life--not just the good stuff but also the best-forgotten postings to alt.sex.fish or rec.nude. The Web shrine you once erected to an old flame, with its hyperventilating vows of eternal devotion, may give pause to a new lover in your life. The union solidarity page you put up at your first job--years before you were bucking for senior management--may come back to haunt your efforts to get a promotion. And who would have predicted that your Senate candidacy would go down in flames when your political opponent uncovered the image-rich homage to porn star Ashlyn Gere you posted in college? Most people don't have posterity in mind when they fire off notes or post Web pages. Observes Schneier: "When you're in college and posting things online, you're young and immortal and you don't think about the impact your words will have five minutes from now, much less five, 10 or 20 years down the road." We can already see the outlines of this new world. When you apply for a job in the high-tech sector, there's a fair chance your prospective employer will use a search engine to scout out your online postings, from late-night musings to intemperate rants fired off to a political news group. Would an employer's decision be colored by information that has nothing to do with a candidate's job qualifications, such as your out-of-the-mainstream religious beliefs, sexual orientation, HIV status or personal habits? Absolutely, and without apology. After all, "character" counts, too. Federal law makes it a crime for agencies to compare most digital information about U.S. citizens, points out Fred Cate, a law professor at Indiana University and author of "Privacy in the Information Age." But nothing prevents private companies or individuals from doing so. Criminal convictions, driving records, property records and voter registration records might be available with a few keystrokes. Should employers, neighbors and descendants not yet born be able to poke around in the digital attic for information about you? Cate believes there are good reasons why we shouldn't be so concerned. "It's the democratizing of Big Brother, and that's not such a bad thing," he says. "You can find out as much about your boss as he can about you. I'm not really happy that someone down the hall can follow me and make a database about me, but that's the way it is in the digital age. If your feelings get bruised, tough. If the information's true and not distorted, then you're stuck with the things you said online years ago. I don't see this as a privacy issue." Perhaps not in the narrowest sense. But if every online expression becomes fodder for somebody's professional, personal or political agenda, clearly we lose certain freedoms of expression in the bargain. Do you really want to live next door to Big Brother, even a more democratic one? Sobel says, "If you define privacy as the right of individuals to control information about themselves--as we do--then mega-archiving systems clearly raise significant privacy issues. These systems convert every passing thought and contemporaneous musing into a permanent, retrievable record--without, in many cases, the knowledge or consent of the creator." Even Brewster Kahle, who founded the nonprofit Internet Archive (www.archive.org) and its commercial offshoot, Alexa Internet (www.aorg), says, "There are some tricky issues here. A lot of this material is public, but is it really meant to endure?" What Kahle is doing is nothing less than astonishing. Alexa's 32 employees, working in a century-old building in San Francisco's Presidio, sends out "spiders" to crawl the Web and Usenet and store the text, video and audio on a digital jukebox tape drive. It takes about two months to capture all 300 million publicly accessible Web pages. So far they've scooped up 10 terabytes of content, or 10 trillion bytes. Kahle says he launched his project because "we need to preserve our digital heritage. Unless we start saving it, every passing day we're losing the record of one of the great turning points in human history." His Internet Archive and Alexa have drawn widespread praise from academics, historians and Net luminaries concerned that the Web's pioneer days may soon become irretrievably lost. For researchers and scholars, it's a field day. For the rest of us, it's a mixed blessing. Sobel points out that individuals can't even prevent private indiscretions from winding up as part of the Internet's global voyeurism machine. "I just got a phone call from a distraught mother whose 16-year-old daughter's ex-boyfriend posted nude photos of her on the Web. The photos were consensual when they were taken. So suddenly it's part of the public domain, and even if the mother persuades him to take them down, he may no longer have control over how long this stuff is out there. This teenage girl may have to live with that for the rest of her life." Kahle offers another example: "The president's personal home page is probably in our archives now--the person who'll become president in 20 or 30 years. You know that he or she is the kind of person who already has a Web page up in college." Are we condemned, then, to a future where journalists will pore over every online college-age musing of a prospective president? It appears that way. "I'm still struggling with the issues raised by this," Sobel says. "We need a public debate to redefine the concepts of what should be private and public. Should anyone be able to type your name into a search engine and come up with public records about your private life? What good are laws that expunge a crime from your record if the old records remain accessible to anyone on the Net? What about information that's misleading, inaccurate, or that you had no idea was out there in cyberspace?" Kahle is well aware of the debate, and he's working with legal experts, historians and privacy advocates to determine the best way to make archived material available. "I used to be very oriented toward privacy, trying to keep track of who knows what about me," he said. "I've become less fanatical about it, because I find that it's more valuable to be found than for me to be obscure. For those who don't want to be found, we should let them be." One may well ask: Do we have that option anymore? As the Net becomes ubiquitous, its underlying essence of interconnectedness and community come with a price: the loss of anonymity. We are being drawn forcibly, inexorably, into the global town square. That is no reason to avoid the Internet (as if we could!). It is becoming inextricably woven into the fabric of our everyday lives. As it should be, for the Net is a gift, connecting us with like-minded individuals around the world and allowing us to interact in soul-stirring ways. But we need to be aware that our digital footprints are permanent ones. Once, words were spoken and vanished like vapor in the air. No longer. Our pasts are etched like a tattoo into our digital skins. For better or worse, we're no longer a people who can reinvent ourselves. Joseph Lasica writes frequently about new media. (c) Copyright 1998 The Washington Post Company ---------------End of Original Message----------------- =================================================================== Constitution Society, 1731 Howe Av #370, Sacramento, CA 95825 916/568-1022, 916/450-7941VM Date: 10/12/98 Time: 17:09:43 http://www.constitution.org/ mailto:jon.roland at constitution.org =================================================================== ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Tue Oct 13 15:28:01 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 06:28:01 +0800 Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.35: F.B.I. Set to Begin Using National DNA Database Message-ID: <199810132157.OAA10034@netcom13.netcom.com> From: "ama-gi ISPI" Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.35: F.B.I. Set to Begin Using National DNA Database Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 00:39:34 -0700 To: ISPI Clips 5.35: F.B.I. Set to Begin Using National DNA Database News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) Tuesday October 13, 1998 ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This From: The New York Times, October 12, 1998 http://www.nytimes.com F.B.I. Set to Begin Using National DNA Database http://www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/news/national/dna-data-base.html "The DNA data base started out with pariahs -- the sex offenders -- but has already been enlarged to include other felons and will probably be extended to include everyone, giving elites the power to control 'unruly' citizens." By NICHOLAS WADE n a computer at a secret location, the FBI will open a national DNA database on Tuesday that advocates say could significantly reduce rape and other crimes by helping to catch repeat offenders earlier. The data base, with a new generation of forensic DNA techniques, promises to be so efficient that some civil libertarians fear it will be expanded from people convicted of crimes to include almost everyone, giving the government inordinate investigative powers over citizens. The national DNA data base consists of 50 data bases run by the states but unified by common test procedures and software designed by the FBI. As of Tuesday, it will be possible to compare a DNA sample from a suspect or crime scene in one state with all others in the system. The national data base has been nearly a decade in the making. The final pieces fell into place in June when Rhode Island became the last state to set up a DNA data base. But the system still faces many unresolved issues, which are likely to play out according to the reaction from the public and the courts. One such issue is what types of offenders should be included. Another is whether the mass screening of suspects' DNA will prove constitutional. DNA, the chemical that embodies a person's genetic programming, can be found almost everywhere. People shed a constant torrent of dead skin cells. Criminals leave blood when breaking and entering; they shed hair and skin cells in fights, deposit saliva on glasses and leave sweat stains in head bands. From only a few cells in such sources, enough DNA can be extracted to identify the owner. A DNA database of sufficient size could presumably help solve many crimes. The crime-fighting potential of DNA data bases is becoming evident from the experiences of Britain, which started earlier and has had fewer administrative and constitutional hurdles to overcome. The data base there initially focused on sex offenses but has spread to include burglaries and car theft because of the high number of DNA matches that police forces were obtaining. Moreover, there was considerable crossover at least in Britain, among different kinds of offenses. "People who commit serious crime very often have convictions for petty crime in their history, so if you could get them on the data base early you may prevent serious crime," said David Werrett, manager of the DNA data base for England and Wales. The English DNA data base includes entries from crime scenes and from everyone convicted of a crime, as well as from suspects in unresolved cases. Since the system's debut in 1995, it has matched 28,000 people to crime scenes and has made 6,000 links between crime scenes. The data base now holds 360,000 entries and Werrett said he expected it would eventually include one third of all English men between 16 and 30, the principal ages for committing crimes. Werrett said that the data base has grown because police forces in England, which pay $55 for a DNA analysis, are finding it cost effective. Recently the Police Superintendents Association called for the entire population to be DNA tested. Forensic use of DNA in the United States is unlikely to go as fast or as far as in Britain. "Their system makes a tremendous amount of sense the way they approach it, but in the United States we have a different perspective on privacy and on the extent to which we would be willing to depend on a data base," said Christopher Asplen, executive director of the national Commission on the Future of DNA Evidence. One major privacy safeguard in the FBI's system is that only a minute fraction of a person's genetic endowment becomes part of the data base. Under a new DNA profiling system known as STR's, for short tandem repeats, a person's DNA is tested at 13 specific sites at which a short length of DNA is repeated in a kind of stutter. The number of repeats is highly variable from one person to another, so that measuring the number of repeats at the 13 designated sites gives a way of identifying each individual with a probability of one in several billion. The blood or other samples donated by individuals are retained by the states in collections known as DNA banks. All that goes into the computerized DNA data bases is the set of 13 numbers from the STR measurements. Only identifying information, and nothing about a person's health or appearance, can be divined from the STR's. Access to the DNA data base is permitted only for law enforcement purposes, with a $100,000 fine for unauthorized disclosures. No known breaches of the system have occurred. One major unresolved issue is that of the types of offenders from whom DNA profiles should be taken. All states require people convicted of serious sexual offenses to donate blood samples, but differ on requiring samples from other groups such as people convicted of violent felonies, juvenile offenders and parolees. Four states -- Virginia, Wyoming, New Mexico and Alabama -- require all people convicted of a felony to provide samples for DNA profiling. Louisiana allows DNA to be taken from people merely arrested in a crime, a practice that has not been tested in the courts. State laws establishing DNA data bases have been challenged in 13 jurisdictions and have been upheld in all but one, in Massachusetts. Some states have revised their original legislation to add offenses. "I think the trend is that 10 years from now all felonies will be covered," said M. Dawn Herkenham, chief of the FBI's Forensic Science Systems Unit in Washington. "We recommend that all violent felonies, burglaries, juveniles and retroactivity for people on parole be included." >From his office in Birmingham, England, last week, Werrett said, "Today we have issued matches on three murders, five rapes, nine serious robberies, two abductions and two violent burglaries." No state DNA data base has acquired the critical mass to furnish such a hit rate. Many state laboratories are understaffed and have large backlogs of DNA samples to analyze. The backlogs are particularly worrisome in the case of rapes where specimens may lie unanalyzed while the rapist assaults more victims. "People may be appalled to know how many rape suspect kits are out there untouched," Ms. Herkenham of the FBI said. "The hit ratio depends on whether we can go back and examine all the evidence that comes in the door," said Dr. Barry Duceman, director of biological science in the New York State Police Forensic Investigation Center in Albany. "We are trying to address a crushing case backlog and to get the technology on line -- you'd be hard pressed to say we are overstaffed." The case backlog problem is compounded because state laboratories are switching to the STR method of DNA profiling from an older method of analysis called RFLP (for restriction fragment length polymorphism). All the samples analyzed by RFLP must be redone by STR if they are to be searchable in the new data base. When these teething problems are overcome, many experts believe that the state and national DNA data base systems may have a significant effect, particularly in reducing crimes like rape that often involve repeat offenders. By scoring a "cold hit" between crime scene data and a person, DNA data bases can be particularly effective in solving cases with no suspects. "Once we get that infrastructure in place and start getting those hits, the benefits will lead to higher utilization," Asplen said. But like other experts involved with DNA testing, he expressed concern that DNA profiling be developed in a publicly acceptable way. "The public does need to have a trust level with this and be assured that law enforcement is not going to abuse this powerful tool," he said. One practice likely to raise eyebrows, if not hackles, is mass screening, which is widely used in the United Kingdom but not yet commonplace here. In high profile crime cases, police in Britain often ask, and can require, all members of a town or building to give DNA samples so as to prove themselves guiltless and help narrow the search for the culprit. The National Commission on the Future of DNA Testing is examining under what circumstances the donation of samples can be considered voluntary. In an office, where employees who declined to donate a sample might be fired, a police request for DNA might be coercive. A future use of DNA testing is that of phenotypic analysis. It will soon be technically possible to infer from the genes in a person's DNA many probable aspects of their appearance, such as hair, skin and eye color. Werrett said the main problem with such predictions would lie in training police to understand their probabilistic nature: told there is a 90 percent chance that the suspect has red hair, investigators should not ignore the 10 percent chance that he does not. DNA reveals so much about a person that behavioral geneticists might wish to search through state data banks for genetic variants linked to criminal behavior. Most states say their DNA data banks can be accessed only for law enforcement purposes, like the data bases. But Alabama authorizes the use of its samples for "educational research or medical research or development," an apparent invitation to genetic inquiry. An impending issue is whether states should retain their DNA samples once the information has been entered into the DNA data base. Forensic managers like to retain samples as a hedge against changing technology. Others say the DNA sample banks create an opportunity for abuse, and that if there is another change in technology the government should just rebuild its data base from scratch. Because DNA can be found at so many crime scenes, DNA data bases promise to be powerful aids in catching criminals. But what thrills forensic experts tends to chill civil libertarians. "The DNA data base started out with pariahs -- the sex offenders -- but has already been enlarged to include other felons and will probably be extended to include everyone, giving elites the power to control 'unruly' citizens," said Philip Bereano a professor of technology and public policy at the University of Washington in Seattle. Dr. Eric Juengst, a bioethicist at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland and a member of the FBI's DNA Advisory Board, said the original policy in setting up the DNA data base was that it was "suitable only for our most serious category of criminals," and that it would be a breach of that policy to expand its scope. The risks raised by Bereano are worth watching, Juengst said, "but as a society we have to learn how to control powerful tools of all kinds, like nuclear power. I don't see it as an endless slippery slope." Copyright 1998 The New York Times Company --------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------ ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research and educational purposes only. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases (up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message "Please enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to: ISPIClips at ama-gi.com . The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia (Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no government funding and takes a global perspective. ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research into electronic, personal and financial privacy with a view toward helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy. But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and generous financial support. If you value in the ISPI Clips service or if you are concerned about the erosion of your privacy in general, won't you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI Clips Supporter" or by taking out an institute Membership? We gratefully accept all contributions: Less than $60 ISPI Clips Supporter $60 - $99 Primary ISPI Membership (1 year) $100 - $300 Senior ISPI Membership (2 years) More than $300 Executive Council Membership (life) Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership. For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com . We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to any third party. ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From ichudov at Algebra.COM Tue Oct 13 15:28:02 1998 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 06:28:02 +0800 Subject: What it's like to get a subpoena (re Toto)y In-Reply-To: <199810132014.VAA12469@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: <199810132202.RAA20785@manifold.algebra.com> I have not been reading the list lately, but, is that story with Toto still going on? Is he in jail or something? If yes, please pass him along my moral support if that is feasible. Perhaps I will start reading the list again. igor PS No visits from the IRS yet. Adam Back wrote: > > > Jim Choate writes about his visit from IRS agents in relation to Toto. > > Jim Choate writes: > > I was visited by two nicely mannerd IRS agents this morning. We > > talked for about an hour or so about Cypherpunks, CJ, Austin, > > majordomo, etc. In the process I was served with a subpoena from the > > Western District of Washington [...] > > > > I explained how majordomo works, how to manipulate majordomo to get > > lists of subscribers (I used the SSZ subscriber list as an example), > > and described the time in July (I believe) when CJ/Toto/aka visited > > the local meeting. We also discussed the potential for altering > > email traffic through a remailer. > > Perhaps they lack proof that the message in question was sent to the > list, very little is signed, and Toto surrounded himself with > forgeries. > > Not that it makes much difference that I can see -- the issue is > surely whether CJ wrote the post, and whether the post and the AP > mockup constitutes a credible threat. (That they apparently think > Toto's AP mockup was credible shows a lack of understanding). > > > I've made it clear I have no problems answering their questions but > > have no desire to go to Seattle in Nov. or any other time. They are > > looking into whether a deposition given here would be sufficient for > > their needs. Until then I'm getting ready for a 2-3 day trip to > > Seattle in Nov..... > > I don't see why they're bothering you, I wonder if the other majordomo > operators have received, or shortly will receive similar visits. > > Perhaps we could send archive URLs to Jeff Gordon. > > > I'm currently trying to decide whether to scan and post the subpoena > > on the SSZ webpage. > > Sure please do. > > > It's interesting that they requested archives of the list. > > I would have thought Jeff Gordon, the IRS agent investigating Toto, > would be subscribed to the list, at least via an alias. > > Also, there are several operational cypherpunks list archives > remaining. > > > Please don't call or send private email requesting further > > details. They didn't ask me to keep any of our discussion > > confidential but until I better understand what is going on I'm > > taking the conservative course (I had a big fight with myself about > > whether to even post this). > > Well thanks for making it. I say make it all public, FWIW. > > Adam > - Igor. From vznuri at netcom.com Tue Oct 13 15:33:38 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 06:33:38 +0800 Subject: IP: Privacy Fears: FBI's DNA Database Message-ID: <199810132203.PAA10570@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Privacy Fears: FBI's DNA Database Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 08:54:57 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com Source: San Jose Mercury News http://www.mercurycenter.com/premium/front/docs/dnadata12.htm Published Monday, October 12, 1998, in the San Jose Mercury News DNA database offers promise -- and privacy fears BY NICHOLAS WADE New York Times In a computer at a secret location, the FBI will open a national DNA database Tuesday that advocates say could significantly reduce rape and other crimes by helping to catch repeat offenders earlier. The database, with a new generation of forensic DNA techniques, promises to be so efficient that some civil libertarians fear it will be expanded from people convicted of crimes to include almost everyone, giving the government inordinate investigative powers over citizens. The national DNA database consists of 50 databases run by the states but unified by common test procedures and software designed by the FBI. As of Tuesday, it will be possible to compare a DNA sample from a suspect or crime scene in one state with all others in the system. The national database has been nearly a decade in the making. The final pieces fell into place in June when Rhode Island became the last state to set up a DNA database. But the system still faces many unresolved issues, which are likely to play out according to the reaction from the public and the courts. One such issue is what types of offenders should be included. Another is whether the mass screening of suspects' DNA will prove constitutional. DNA, the chemical that embodies a person's genetic programming, can be found almost everywhere. People shed a constant torrent of dead skin cells. Criminals leave blood when breaking and entering; they shed hair and skin cells in fights, deposit saliva on glasses and leave sweat stains in head bands. >From only a few cells in such sources, enough DNA can be extracted to identify the owner. A DNA database of sufficient size could presumably help solve many crimes. Britain's experience The crime-fighting potential of DNA databases is becoming evident from the experiences of Britain, which started earlier and has had fewer administrative and constitutional hurdles to overcome. The database there initially focused on sex offenses but has spread to include burglaries and car theft because of the high number of DNA matches that police forces were obtaining. Moreover, there was considerable crossover, at least in Britain, among different kinds of offenses. ``People who commit serious crime very often have convictions for petty crime in their history, so if you could get them on the database early you may prevent serious crime,'' said David Werrett, manager of the DNA database for England and Wales. The English DNA database includes entries from crime scenes and from everyone convicted of a crime, as well as from suspects in unresolved cases. Since the system's debut in 1995, it has matched 28,000 people to crime scenes and has made 6,000 links between crime scenes. The database now holds 360,000 entries and Werrett said he expected it would eventually include one-third of all English males between 16 and 30, the principal ages for committing crimes. Werrett said the database has grown because police forces in England, which pay $55 for a DNA analysis, are finding it cost-effective. Recently the Police Superintendents Association called for the entire population to be DNA-tested. Forensic use of DNA in the United States is unlikely to go as fast or as far as in Britain. ``Their system makes a tremendous amount of sense the way they approach it, but in the United States we have a different perspective on privacy and on the extent to which we would be willing to depend on a database,'' said Christopher Asplen, executive director of the national Commission on the Future of DNA Evidence. One privacy safeguard One major privacy safeguard in the FBI's system is that only a minute fraction of a person's genetic endowment becomes part of the database. Under a new DNA profiling system known as STRs, for short tandem repeats, a person's DNA is tested at 13 specific sites at which a short length of DNA is repeated in a kind of stutter. The number of repeats is highly variable from one person to another, so that measuring the number of repeats at the 13 designated sites gives a way of identifying each individual with a probability of one in several billion. The blood or other samples donated by individuals are retained by the states in collections known as DNA banks. All that goes into the computerized DNA databases is the set of 13 numbers from the STR measurements. Only identifying information, and nothing about a person's health or appearance, can be divined from the STRs. Access to the DNA database is permitted only for law enforcement purposes, with a $100,000 fine for unauthorized disclosures. No known breaches of the system have occurred. One major unresolved issue is that of the types of offenders from whom DNA profiles should be taken. All states require people convicted of serious sexual offenses to donate blood samples, but states differ on requiring samples from other groups such as people convicted of violent felonies, juvenile offenders and parolees. Four states -- Virginia, Wyoming, New Mexico and Alabama -- require all people convicted of a felony to provide samples for DNA profiling. Louisiana allows DNA to be taken from people merely arrested in a crime, a practice that has not been tested in the courts. Databases upheld State laws establishing DNA databases have been challenged in 13 jurisdictions and have been upheld in all but one, in Massachusetts. Some states have revised their original legislation to add offenses. ``I think the trend is that 10 years from now all felonies will be covered,'' said M. Dawn Herkenham, chief of the FBI's Forensic Science Systems Unit in Washington. ``We recommend that all violent felonies, burglaries, juveniles and retroactivity for people on parole be included.'' >From his office in Birmingham, England, last week, Werrett said, ``Today, we have issued matches on three murders, five rapes, nine serious robberies, two abductions and two violent burglaries.'' No state DNA database has acquired the critical mass to furnish such a hit rate. Many state laboratories are understaffed and have large backlogs of DNA samples to analyze. The backlogs are particularly worrisome in the case of rapes where specimens may lie unanalyzed while the rapist assaults more victims. The case backlog problem is compounded because state laboratories are switching to the STR method of DNA profiling from an older method of analysis called RFLP, for restriction fragment length polymorphism. All the samples analyzed by RFLP must be redone by STR if they are to be searchable in the new database. When these teething problems are overcome, many experts believe that the state and national DNA database systems may have a significant effect, particularly in reducing crimes such as rape that often involve repeat offenders. But like other experts involved with DNA testing, Asplen expressed concern that DNA profiling be developed in a publicly acceptable way. ``The public does need to have a trust level with this and be assured that law enforcement is not going to abuse this powerful tool,'' he said. ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Tue Oct 13 15:40:56 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 06:40:56 +0800 Subject: IP: FBI Intentionally Obstructing Justice: TWA800 Message-ID: <199810132157.OAA10011@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: FBI Intentionally Obstructing Justice: TWA800 Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:25:58 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com Source: The Winds http://www.TheWinds.org/ TWA FLIGHT 800 ANALYSTS SAY FBI IS INTENTIONALLY OBSTRUCTING JUSTICE "I will probably never watch national television news again, and take it at face value for the rest of my life." -- Comdr. William S. Donaldson The FBI and the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) intentionally lied to Congress and the public concerning key evidence about the downing of Trans World Airlines Flight 800. So indicates recent evidence brought to light in a tape-recorded conversation with James Kalstrom, the FBI Special Agent in charge of the disaster investigation. On that tape, obtained by Accuracy In Media (AIM) Chairman Reed Irvine, Special Agent Kalstrom is allegedly heard to admit that U.S. Naval vessels were present in the immediate area where, on July 17, 1996, TWA Flight 800 was blown out of the sky along with its 230 passengers and crew. Previously, the federal agencies contended publicly and in testimony before Congress that the closest military asset other than an unarmed navy aircraft, a P-3 Orion, was the USS Normandy, 185 miles away. However, speaking on condition of anonymity, a reliable source confirmed to The WINDS that the claims Irvine is making as to the contents of the tape are indeed accurate. In the recording, the details of which were disclosed privately to a meeting of Washington's Judicial Watch, Irvine alleges that Agent Kalstrom is clearly heard to confirm that there were in fact three U.S. Navy vessels within three to six nautical miles of the crash site. These ships, according to Kalstrom, were on a highly classified mission. This information is enormously important because it greatly strengthens the already formidable position of those claiming that a missile strike was responsible for the Flight 800 disaster. Commander William S. Donaldson, USN Ret., a longtime thorn in the side of the federal agencies investigating Flight 800, informed The WINDS that he also has personally heard, and has a copy of, the aforementioned tape recording. He quotes Special Agent Kalstrom as saying, in reference to mysterious unnamed radar surface targets the FBI refused to identify, "We know what they were...they were navy ships on classified maneuvers." Of the two factions hotly advocating the facts indicating a missile strike, one believes it was an errant U.S. Navy anti-aircraft missile launched from those very ships the FBI and NTSB claims were not present. The other position of the pro-missile group asserts that the ships were present because the navy knew that there was a threat of terrorist activity in the area and failed in an attempt to intercept the terrorists and thwart the destruction of the airliner. This is seemingly corroborated by eyewitnesses who claim to have observed a previous attempt that failed, only because the vessel launching the missiles was too far offshore and out of range. Attempts to locate the craft bearing the terrorists and their portable missiles were apparently the reason for the "classified" naval presence in the area. It would also explain the presence of the P-3 Orion which is technically a navy sub-chaser but, according to Comdr. Donaldson, can be used as a reconnaissance platform with its forward-looking infrared (FLIR) optics and radar. Comdr. Donaldson claims to also have obtained testimony from several witnesses, one of whom "is an ex-Navy Bombardier/navigator aboard A6 Intruders, who observed an Aegis Cruiser to the west of the air disaster." An Aegis is a highly sophisticated Virginia Class guided missile cruiser with radar and electronic counter measures (ECM) that would be immensely suitable in searching for and neutralizing a seaborne terrorist threat. Because of the highly trained nature of men such as the A6 bombardier/navigator, Donaldson, in his words, considers the identification of the Aegis Cruiser to be "positive, with 100% credibility." Interestingly, the USS Normandy, the one warship the navy admits was 185 miles away, is also an Aegis Guided Missile Cruiser of the Ticonderoga Class, stationed out of Norfolk, Virginia, less than 300 nautical miles away--an easy and quick journey for the nuclear-powered cruiser. Either the former A6 crewman has extraordinarily good over-the-horizon eyesight, or the Normandy (or another Aegis Cruiser) was much nearer the scene than the navy and FBI are willing to admit. Much to the dismay and irritation of federal authorities from both the FBI and the NTSB, the specter of TWA Flight 800 simply will not go away. Special Agent Kalstrom went on record as angrily denouncing those responsible for perpetuating American consciousness of the tragedy--and who disagree with their official position of cause for the disaster: an internally ignited center wing fuel tank. Kalstrom is also quoted in Salon Magazineas arrogantly admonishing that "these people should get a life." [1] In that article entitled, "The Buffoon Brigade," Salonrefers to those opposing the government's declaration as to the cause of the crash as a "motley army". That "motley army"--the one advised by Special Agent Kalstrom to pursue a worthwhile existence--is composed of such as: Pierre Salinger: once Press Secretary to President John F. Kennedy former ABC News commentator Admiral Thomas H. Moorer, USN, Retired: Former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, arguably the most powerful visible position in America outside the presidency (with the possible exception of Federal Reserve Chairman) Commander William S. Donaldson, USN Retired: Former Navy combat pilot 89 combat missions over Viet Nam Several years as a highly trained aviation accident investigator and team leader in a dozen or more military crash investigations Richard Russell: Former 747 pilot for United Airlines Over 26 years experience with the Airline Pilots Association investigating commercial aviation accidents serving as the Air Safety Representative for the agency Former U.S. Army Major Fredrick Meyer: Army combat helicopter pilot Extensive combat extraction experience in Viet Nam with firsthand witness of thousands of detonations of military explosives ordinance Currently an attorney and Air National Guard helicopter pilot First person on the scene of the Flight 800 incident after he and his copilot witnessed from their ANG helicopter what he says he would "swear to God, was [exploding] military ordinance" bringing down the TWA jet.[2] "Motley army"? Could it be surmised that many on Salon Magazine's staff--and the FBI--would kill (metaphorically speaking) to obtain such a life as have those men--that is, if intellect and integrity are any longer deciding factors in the definition of "a life". With the exception of Fredrick Meyer, who The WINDS has already interviewed extensively for previous articles on Flight 800, and Adm. Moorer, this agency spoke at length with each of the aforementioned individuals. "IT IS VERY CLEAR IT WAS A NAVAL MISSILE" Pierre Salinger has informed this agency that he is in possession of what he refers to as "new information that makes it very, very clear it's a naval missile [that brought down Flight 800]....and very hot information about the number of naval ships that were in that area--much more than anybody thought." He said he was unable, at this time, to share details of that information with The WINDS, but directed this office to a source which would. The information Mr. Salinger alluded to, it turns out, is the same as what was revealed on the aforementioned AIM tape recording. Mr. Salinger has been the target of innumerable attacks by the media and the U.S. Government for the position he has taken on the Flight 800 disaster. "I've been so attacked by the press and everybody else," Salinger told The WINDS, that he said he would not speak publicly on the TWA matter "until the government comes out with what they claim to be a solution. If what they say is something that we do not believe, then I'm definitely going to start speaking." Interestingly, Salinger, and the unofficial truth about the downing of the TWA jet, are taken quite seriously outside the United States media. In a previous article, for example, The WINDS quoted The Times of London,a newspaper of no small reputation, as reporting that "satellite images have proved FLT 800 was tracked and hit by a sophisticated missile. 'An American spy satellite positioned over the Brookhaven National Laboratory on Long Island is said to have yielded important information about the crash. A law enforcement official told The New York Postthat the satellite pictures show an object racing up to the TWA jet...and smashing into it.'" "There was extraordinary information that was being dug up by other news organizations that was blocked and never ever went to the press," James Sanders, author of The Downing of TWA 800told this office, "and yet the most moronic government statement would go to the head of the line in each and every case." According to current knowledge there is, it seems, as much firsthand corroboration that the aircraft was downed by an errant or intentionally launched missile as there is for the fact that Americans have landed on the moon. Yet, the obfuscation in which the FBI, NTSB and other federal agencies are engaged seems to effectively blot that fact from their conscious thinking. "That's something very weird," Salinger said, "because at that time, as a matter of fact, at the top of [Agent] Kalstrom's list was the missile theory. So why," Salinger asked, "was he attacking me when I said it was a missile? The reason he did is that I was talking about a naval missile--that's why. He himself was thinking at that time that it was a missile," Mr. Salinger continued. "And you know there were 350 witnesses that saw the missiles." When asked if he thought that the media assault on him was orchestrated by the government he replied, "I don't have any actual facts but I have had people tell me that it resulted because the FBI was in touch with the media." Of the two positions previously mentioned as to the origin of the missiles that destroyed Flight 800 in the eastern sky that July evening, the one headed by Comdr. Donaldson holds that the missiles were SA6 SAMs (surface-to-air missiles) of Soviet origin, launched by terrorists. The other view, espoused by Pierre Salinger and James Sanders, et. al., is that the missiles were errantly fired by the U.S. Navy ships in the vicinity. There is, however, no dissension between the camps on the fact that irrefutable data points to some manner of anti-aircraft missile ordinance, whatever its origin, as the source of the tragedy and definitely away from the absurdities of, as Sanders puts it, "moronic government statements". In his interview with The WINDS Mr. Sanders, expressing his frank admiration for the former Navy Commander, admitted, "I really didn't have the ability to get at the things that Donaldson has gotten at." Comdr. Donaldson's chief logical argument against a failed navy missile test comes from his many years experience with naval operations. He claims that the navy would never test fire a missile off the U.S. coast with the capability, should it malfunction, of reaching land. The fact that it is now apparently confirmed that there were, indeed, naval warships in the near vicinity of the Flight 800 downing should cause critics to look more closely at the facts and compare them with what is becoming even more confused and bewildered government explanations of the incident. But will this new evidence of a government cover-up make any difference as to whether the truth will be heard and accepted? This is the haunting question that pursues those who are perhaps getting their first real experience into the power that the New World Order exercises over information flow. Their power for creating media stupefaction was vividly presented in the opening paragraph of a recent Village Voice?article. "In January more than twenty-five reporters attended the Washington, D.C. press conference," Voicecorrespondent Robert Davey reported in July, "--virtually a military briefing that for all the actual media coverage it received might as well have been labeled Top Secret. At the widely ignored event retired Navy pilot Commander William S. Donaldson and former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Thomas H. Moorer announced that evidence existed to suggest that a surface-to-air missile brought down TWA Flight 800." Davey shared, on the syndicated Mike Jarmus radio talk show, that he had first become interested in the TWA Flight 800 affair "in Christmas of '96 after Pierre Salinger came out with his charges," he said. "And it struck me as interesting the way he was greeted with such hostility and so disparaged in the media." AS AIRTIGHT AS IT GETS: Commander William Donaldson pulls the flowers out of the FBI's garden. In a stinging letter to FBI Director Louis Freeh, Comdr. Donaldson presents a most cogent and concise assembly of facts, decimating the government's position on the cause of the tragedy. In that document, a copy of which Comdr. Donaldson submitted to The WINDS, he begins: "Considering your New York office's recent abandonment of its law enforcement responsibilities, let me refresh your memory and provide the following reality check: FACTS In the entire history of American turbine powered civilian air transport, there has never been an in-flight fuel tank explosion in any aircraft caused by mechanical failure! (Laws of probability do not support the NTSB theory). Jet A-1 fuel used by FL800 is safer than all its predecessors. It cannot be made to explode in-flight unless the tank is first exposed to shock (chemical properties of the fuel do not support the NTSB theory)." Commander Donaldson informed The WINDS of an experiment he had conducted for Fox Television News and other news organizations in which he demonstrated by the use of Jet A-1 fuel in a tank at the same vapor concentration that would have been present in Flight 800's center wing tank that it could not have exploded as the federal authorities contend. None of the footage, Donaldson said, ever made it on the air. Donaldson continues: The fuel temperature in TWA 800's center wing tank (CWT) was well below minimum flammability much less at explosive vapor temperatures. (Environmental conditions do not support the NTSB theory). There is no source of ignition in the B747 CWT (aircraft design does not support the NTSB theory). Conventionally designed aircraft cannot fly much less generate lift to climb absent the gross tonnage of fuselage forward of the wing. (Laws of physical science and principles of aerodynamics do not support the NTSB theory). The twelve or more explosive chemical residue hits by BATF's EGIS 3000 equipment are physical evidence of high explosive involvement. (Leading edge hi-tech forensic evidence does not support the NTSB theory). Testimony from eyewitnesses along eleven nautical miles of shore front show first sightings of ascending objects that cross correlate to a launch position well away from FL800's track. (Eyewitness testimony does not support the NTSB theory). The medical examiners' report shows a uniform instantaneous cause of death and evidence of high velocity metal in the cabin. (Post mortem examinations do not support the NTSB theory). The debris field shows that TWA FL800's nose forward of the wing was shattered after being hit from the left by a huge force that distributed the gross tonnage as much as 2900 ft. right of the projected aircraft track. (Debris field evidence does not support the NTSB theory). Comdr. Donaldson's letter to Director Freeh continues in considerably more technical detail with each point followed by the parenthetical summation ending with "(...does not support the NTSB theory)." Other points including those summations are: (Ballistic geometry does not support the NTSB theory). (The historical record of airframe damage during in-flight center wing tank explosions does not support the NTSB theory). The forward cabin debris shows through-holes from left side to right side [those that would have been made by a high-speed object such as a missile passing through the 747's fuselage]. (The forward cabin debris does not support the NTSB theory). The debris field shows initial cabin integrity was lost, 16 feet forward of the center wing tank at FS800, forward left hand cargo bay. (The cabin break-up sequence does not support the NTSB theory). Comdr. Donaldson then concludes his list of details, with which he is at odds with federal authorities, with the pointed comment: The FBI has withdrawn before the cause has been determined. (The FBI does support the NTSB theory). Why? Under the heading: "Collusion with NTSB Goals, Suppression of Eyewitness Evidence" Donaldson continues to flay the FBI director with his eminently logical analysis of the incident. Mr. Freeh I will be candid, the fact that the FBI is now joining in lockstep with the NTSB political script sadly was not a surprise to me, because of what I had discovered on Long Island. Mr. Kalstrom's agents who 'who turned over every rock ten times' failed to tape critical eyewitness testimony, failed to establish visual bearing lines from the witnesses who observed ascending objects, failed to get elevation measurements, failed to get relative motion statements and in some cases failed to even go to the observation point, that is except from some eyewitnesses who didn't see the missile!... Multiple witnesses tell me agents on rare second or third visits to persons who saw ascending objects tried to get the witnesses to change their original stories? Many of these people are now afraid of and disgusted with their own government, the administrative mantra "no evidence of criminal act" is turning normal American citizens into bitter cynics." Referring to the FBI's tightly choreographed control and feed of the media Comdr. Donaldson seems to have no other recourse than to resort to sarcastic humor in making his point on the ridiculous show produced for public consumption. "It was entertaining," Donaldson told Director Freeh, referring to the CIA's 14-minute animated video on the disaster, "but like most cartoons [it] grossly abused universal laws of nature. Like: Newton's law of gravitation, Newton's first and second law of dynamics, Newton's' law of hydro-dynamic resistance and fundamental principles of aerodynamic lift, drag, dynamic stability and jet engine mechanics. Other than that," Donaldson cynically observes, "it was a media masterpiece....Perfect junk science fluff for television." The former navy commander continues to thoroughly wrap the extraordinarily flawed FBI investigation in his Gordian Knot of logic as he, point-by-point, encases the agency and the NTSB within a web of seemingly inescapable logic. At one point he berates Freeh's organization by telling him that if his "people had continued the commendable job the county police started and actually developed witnesses who observed ascending objects, as they [the county police] were doing, you would have provided the CIA with data showing the object was moving three times faster than a 747 and was first sighted close to shore." Donaldson calls the CIA's "cartoon" a "most outlandish abridgment of testimony and obstruction of justice" referring to the "amateurish depiction of sound analysis which claims that only the sound of the aircraft was actually heard during the disaster. This, Comdr. Donaldson claims, fails "to consider the number of explosions heard by witnesses." Responding to the bizarre assumption that a noseless 747 could continue to climb another 3,000 feet when it was already just above stalling speed, the former U.S. Naval aviator asks rhetorically, "why doesn't the New York office just have the cartoon changed and get the 747 to zoom climb to 30,000 feet...[?] After all, the cartoon's pilotless 747 [pilotless because the nose section of the fuselage containing the pilots had been sheared off] is already the current record holder in the zoom climb category." To this contention by the FBI and NTSB that the aircraft continued to climb for another 3,000 feet after losing nearly everything forward of the leading edge of the wings, the Pensacola News Journalcites Donaldson as saying, "The final readings show chaos in the sky - with airspeed dropping instantly by almost 200 knots, the pitch angle jumping five degrees, altitude DROPPING 3,600 feet in about three seconds, the roll angle going from zero to 144 degrees (the airplane almost inverted), and the magnetic heading changing from 82 degrees [just North of due East] to 163 degrees [just East of due South]."[emphasis supplied]. By Donaldson's account it appears that only if one were standing on their head while evaluating the data, could it have been misconstrued as the aircraft CLIMBING 3,000 feet. "'There couldn't have been an aviator at CIA who had anything to do with that,' Donaldson said, 'They were laughed out of town by pilots.'" [ibid.] "They [the CIA] failed to address the two 'bright', 'hard', 'high velocity', 'ordinance"' explosions three seconds apart, in addition to the large petroleum [fuel] explosion agreed to by witnesses airborne, on land and sea." Donaldson continues by explaining in detail how the linear scattering of the 747's debris is impossible to explain by any other theory than a high velocity inertial and explosive impact crossing the aircraft's flight path. As mentioned before, Comdr. Donaldson's logic seems inescapable and has not been intelligently refuted in any government press release or document The WINDS has been able to obtain. With his particularly blunt humor the former naval officer, under the subheading, "The Train Wreck at 13,700 Feet" makes the assertion: From a physics point of view, TWA FL800, at the time of the incident, represented a force of about 465 million foot pounds of inertia oriented on a vector of 071 [degrees] at 13,700 ft. In order to deflect the gross tonnage of debris to the positions found in the field, much of it thousands of feet right of course, either the aircraft was hit by an Amtrak metro-liner on the left side or by a powerful anti-aircraft weapon. Much of the forward fuselage debris is strung out on a 160-degree axis which closely matches observed eyewitness missile intercept angles as well as known fuselage through-holes. Because the wind was very light and almost on the tail, the maximum windage offset of falling metal debris would be approximately an additional 200 ft. downrange. The same offset would be nearly universal throughout the field on similar heavy debris, but proportionally further for light debris. This massive deflection of tons of debris to the right...are absolute and irrefutable physical evidence of a massive blow to the forward fuselage from the left side. Comdr. Donaldson then proceeds to confront the FBI director with even more serious charges. Under the heading of "Obstruction of Justice by Political Intercept" Donaldson charges, Mr. Freeh, I am keenly aware of the justice department's suppression of the EGIS 3000 high explosive residue evidence gathered by BATF. Having consulted with both the equipment manufacturer and independent high explosive experts, the picture is clear. Donaldson then explains for Director Freeh that the EGIS 3000, the most advanced and sensitive state-of-the-art chemical analysis instrument currently in existence, determined in no less than twelve instances that residue from the high explosive PETN was present on parts of the aircraft's wreckage. PETN is an explosive used in, among other applications, the detonation of plutonium-based nuclear weapons, as well as some commercial employment. The flight data recorder apparently presents another critical piece of evidence pointing to a cover-up. According to a report published by the Pensacola News Journalin January of this year the NTSB is said to have explained why the transcript of the last five seconds of Flight 800's data recorder was cut. They claimed it was a leftover segment from a previous flight. "'The only reason you put flight data recorders into an airplane at millions of dollars' cost,'" the newspaper quotes Commander Donaldson as saying, "'is to capture this last data line.'"[3] The explanation given by the NTSB is that the last five seconds were left over from a preceding flight. The paper quotes TWA pilot Howard Mann as saying, "not possible - it's erased - there's just no way." [ibid.] RADAR TAPE AUTHENTIC - - FBI FRANTIC Richard Russell, former 747 pilot for United Airlines with twenty-six years experience in airline accident investigation with the Airline Pilots Association, obtained another crucial piece of evidence in the damning mosaic that describes the last moments of the life of Trans World Airlines Flight 800 and its occupants. Through undisclosed sources Mr. Russell came into possession of a copy of the FAA radar video tape of the sky from which the ill-fated jet fell. When the FBI discovered that he had it, Russell told The WINDS, they immediately confiscated it. "After obtaining a copy of the tape," Russell said, "I studied it--I've worked with air traffic control problems for years and years and I know what's on that tape. I can read it. What was on that tape," he asserts, "was not an electronic glitch. This was an unidentified rogue target going some place in a big hurry--not a ghost target. But it is a definite rogue target that appears for four sweeps and then disappears." A rogue target, Russell explained, differs from a ghost in that the rogue is very real--just unidentified-- whereas a ghost target is a glitch, an electronic artifact that doesn't exist in real life. "The interesting part about this," Russell added, "is that this target appeared just seconds before TWA 800 blows up. The speed of the target during those four sweeps indicates something that was traveling very fast. They have never talked about it," Russell elaborates. "They still will not talk about it. Several controllers, I'm not sure how many, actually reported that it was a missile." When The WINDS asked Mr. Russell if he had been able to extrapolate the speed of the object from the radar images, he declined to share that data at this time. He merely stated that "it's faster than any jets that we have presently operating except for the Concord, and this was not a Concord." Russell then makes what, under normal circumstances, would seem an incredible allegation. Concerning those controllers who claimed they saw a radar missile track arcing toward Flight 800, "James Hall, the NTSB chairman, told Barry Valentine--at that time acting head of the FAA--to obtain signed statements from all the controllers that they were mistaken as to what they saw. Barry Valentine, as far as I'm concerned, was the only guy in the FAA who had any guts. He said, 'I won't do it.' None of them signed the statement and, apparently because of that, Barry Valentine was involuntarily retired." Author James Sanders is another who has felt the intense displeasure of the government for his activities in exposing the cover-up of what has become the most investigated air disaster in history. Sanders is currently under indictment for receiving stolen wreckage of Flight 800.[4] He is accused of asking a TWA pilot, Terrell Stacey, to obtain parts of the aircraft including a piece of seat material from the Flight 800 wreckage, even though the "hanger man", as Sanders refers to him in his book, testified that he provided Sanders with the material "of his own volition"--without being asked. The government is proceeding with its prosecution of Sanders and his wife, even in the face of federal case law that gives journalists the right to request such services. An interesting study in paradoxical hypocrisy is that Special Agent Kalstrom, himself, took pieces of the aircraft as souvenirs for certain people, according to Sanders, Donaldson and other sources. This was done about ten days after the incident, Sanders says, which was before anyone knew what potential investigation value any debris pieces might have. Yet, Kalstrom suffers no legal problems from his action even though the law, Sanders claims, clearly defines the act of retrieving such material for souvenir purposes to be illegal--while, at the same time, defining Sanders' actions as permissible for journalists. "Both my wife and I were in hiding from the FBI and she was under psychiatric care," Sanders told The WINDS. Part of what caused the government to go after Sanders and his wife, Elizabeth, was his insistence that the clearly visible reddish stain that contaminated row 14 of the TWA jet was, in reality, rocket fuel residue. Sanders claims that the federal agencies are afraid to do an analysis of the substance. "I have a legally tape-recorded conversation with a government official, Dr. Merrit Burgee," Sanders claims, "who was the senior scientist for the NTSB in Calverton Hanger [where Flight 800 wreckage is stored]. I have him on tape admitting that they never intended to find out if my residue was from a missile or not. On that tape," the author explains, the chemist "very clearly says that several times, and then he gives the very telling statement that 'Boy, if we had analyzed it and it came out wrong, then what do we do? We could never put this thing to bed.'" The FBI claimed, in March of last year, that the residue was glue. However, Sanders claims that Charles W. Bassett [the chemist in charge of Flight 800 chemical analysis] agreed to him with a notarized affidavit concluding "absolutely that the residue the FBI and NTSB were calling glue most certainly was not." Sanders claims many witnesses have seen the plain reddish trail left on the aircraft's seats as something passed through the cabin forward of the wings. He also contends that all of the foam rubber from the backs of those seats that had the red stains had been mysteriously and purposely stripped away, but none had ever been submitted for chemical analysis. Interestingly, Comdr. Donaldson has suffered no harassment whatever for his most active role in shining the spotlight on government blunders and cover-ups. This is something he attributes to his extensive, unimpeachable military record. Because of the multiple references and relationships he maintains with fleet admirals and CINCPAC (Commander in Chief of Naval Operations, Pacific) the "footprint" he lays down under that umbrella of credibility is formidable enough that federal authorities apparently dare not do more than just wish he would go away. Others, such as Pierre Salinger and James and Elizabeth Sanders, have not been so fortunate. Richard Russell has had his share of government and media aggravation. He told The WINDS that the FBI made multiple visits to his home attempting to determine how he obtained that FAA radar tape--the same one they first claimed was bogus; then admitted it was genuine. Mr. Russell went on to make some very ominous statements in relation to the strange manner in which the accident investigation was carried on. When, according to Russell, the Airline Pilots Association representative, whose name he declined to disclose, arrived on the scene of the Flight 800 crash, "he was greeted by 500 police officers, several hundred FBI agents and twenty-three CIA agents." "He went to the head APA official and asked, 'What the hell is going on here?' The official said, 'I wondered how long it would take you to figure this out.'" "Normally," Russell continued, "investigators will take their clipboards and cameras out and record the scene. When any of the investigators attempted to photograph the area the FBI would forbid it." The APA investigator told Russell that there were as many as two to six agents shadowing every investigator, watching every move they made. If one would closely examine a piece of metal, for instance, and lay it down, it would disappear when the investigator was not present. "He also told me that if you would pick up a fragment and call another investigator over to look at it with obvious interest, an FBI agent would come over and take it out of your hands and you would never see it again. "This information comes from somebody on the inside and I cannot reveal their names to you, but this is what went on there." Russell said he first got interested in the disaster when the Defense Department got involved at the outset. "Why is the Pentagon making an announcement of a civil airplane disaster?" Russell asked himself. "I couldn't believe that." "The second thing that occurred to me," Mr. Russell shared, "was why is the military involving themselves in this immediately? Generally speaking, the military is brought into an accident investigation only after the civil authorities are unable to do the job." The NTSB is the chief authority in investigating aircraft accidents-- even above the FBI which, to Russell, made a strange scenario even stranger. "The night of the disaster the navy provided a DC-9 in Washington and loaded up the FBI and the navy people--and even though there were seats available, they would not allow the NTSB Go-Team to ride with them. They had to wait until the next day. By that time the FBI had taken over and never relinquished control. "The most important data is the eyewitness reports. And they would not even allow them to be interviewed by the NTSB people--only the FBI who are not qualified to investigate accidents. But in this case they just blundered through with brute force and kept everyone at bay." Any application of normal logic would clearly seem to indicate that this type of activity portends far more than the government merely covering up the fact of an errant missile strike. Another observation can be made concerning the government's attempt to conceal the truth from the American people and the world at large. Whenever subterfuge is engaged and the government--or anyone for that matter--contrives to deceive and cover up essential truth, a reaction takes place where the truth appears to take on a life of its own. It will not be buried or obscured and the more one attempts to do so, the louder and more obnoxious the truth becomes until, like Poe's "The Tell-Tale Heart," the truth just keeps beating louder until it must be acknowledged and its opponents appear insane. For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad.--Luke 8:17 REFERENCES: 1.Salon Magazine,March 26, 1997. 2.Pensacola News Journal, January 9, 1998. 3.[Ibid.] 4.FBI Press Release: "CONSPIRACY THEORIST AND WIFE, A SENIOR FLIGHT ATTENDANT FOR TWA, CHARGED IN CONNECTION WITH THEFT OF TWA 800 WRECKAGE". 5.Commander Donaldson's letter to FBI Director Louis Freeh Page 1, Page 2, Page 3, Page 4, Page 5, Page 6, Page 7 RELATED ARTICLES: Flight 800 - Why Won't it Go Away? Witnesses Allege NTSB Covering Evidence of Missile Attack Commander Donaldson's Flight 800 Report Refutes NTSB Letter to WINDS about Flight 800 Copyright � 1998, The WINDS. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. http://www.TheWinds.org Contact The WINDS webmaster. ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From jya at pipeline.com Tue Oct 13 15:58:24 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 06:58:24 +0800 Subject: What it's like to get a subpoena (re Toto) (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810132108.QAA07675@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199810132233.SAA20920@camel14.mindspring.com> Jim Choate's sharing his experiences with the IRS is very welcome, as with Tom Allard forwarding the Jeff Gordon request for assistance. Other inquiries of folks on the list will probably happen, and information about those would be beneficial. It would be a great help to post here any other overtures, anonymous if preferred. It's tough being the earliest ones contacted, having to decide as Tom and Jim have had to do about whether to go public or deal with the inquiries in private and hope that nothing worse develops. It's likely that more serious targets will be approached later, using material obtained from those not at risk, those with no reason to fear the friendly, courteous IRS. At least that's what happened with Jim Bell and CJ. They, too, said they were handled in a friendly courteous manner until ... the case was presented to a magistrate. According to CJ's sister even the shrink at Springfield is the friendliest most courteous person she's talked to, helpful, considerate, and said he had CJ's interest at heart. She said she just hoped he didn't cut off CJ's medicine, cause him to go berzerk, then to disappear. It's that switch from friendly and couterous to the other that none of want to think about, eh? "You're under arrest. Anything you say can and will be used against you." Hmm, what was I saying, posting, here. BTW, the offshore archives, if they are offshore, are a problem for getting legal access to, and to use in court. I think a human linkage is preferred, in deposition, in court, testifying for the record. Makes a more convincing case to have a live body telling the facts of the matter, explaining how things work, somewhat eager to instruct and please, in self-preservation, to keep the cops and court friendly and courteous. What was told to the investigators in private, that's what hung Jim Bell and CJ. But, hey, they were nuts, right? Fuck them. Then the friendly folks came for you and me, working a list. From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Tue Oct 13 16:23:08 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 07:23:08 +0800 Subject: What it's like to get a subpoena (re Toto) (fwd) Message-ID: <199810132308.SAA08748@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 18:25:01 -0400 > From: John Young > Subject: Re: What it's like to get a subpoena (re Toto) (fwd) > It's tough being the earliest ones contacted, having to decide > as Tom and Jim have had to do about whether to go public > or deal with the inquiries in private and hope that nothing worse > develops. That's what worries me, once the snowball gets rolling... I mean jeesh, I run a program that handles email. This sort of stuff is exactly why I don't like interacting with people via private email unless I know them personaly (ie via non-electronic means). The software is publicly available and certainly doesn't need me to explain it. While I can see some interest in wanting to know what CJ/Toto/aka said to me that night on the phone and the next day at the physical meet, it makes me wonder exactly what am I *supposed* to know about... > It's that switch from friendly and couterous to the other that > none of want to think about, eh? "You're under arrest. Anything > you say can and will be used against you." Hmm, what was I > saying, posting, here. Ahmen. Though a more insidous threat is the 'network' that gets built out of it. I wonder if this means every time some bozo I happen to run across goes postal I'm going to be 'investigated'? I wonder how long a name stays on those (probably) non-existant lists? > Makes a more convincing case to have a live body telling the > facts of the matter, explaining how things work, somewhat eager > to instruct and please, in self-preservation, to keep the cops and > court friendly and courteous. What was told to the investigators > in private, that's what hung Jim Bell and CJ. That was the ultimate reason that I went ahead and posted it. That way somebody *besides* me knew about it. > Then the friendly folks came for you and me, working a list. Which is the reason I'm talking to a lawyer to find out specificaly what is going on. I mean in my own self interest and the continued existance of TAG:SSZ it seems to be the thing to do. As far as I know I won't have access to council once I'm in there. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From Bodo_Moeller at public.uni-hamburg.de Tue Oct 13 16:41:20 1998 From: Bodo_Moeller at public.uni-hamburg.de (Bodo Moeller) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 07:41:20 +0800 Subject: DESX In-Reply-To: <19981010215151.A628@die.com> Message-ID: Dave Emery : > Anybody have any estimate as to how much actual strength this > adds to DES ? You might want to read "The Security of DESX" by Phillip Rogaway in CryptoBytes Vol. 2 Number 2 (Summer 1996) pp 8-11, which is available somewhere on RSADSI's web site (possibly might be a good starting point) or the underlying research paper "How to protect DES against exhaustive key search" by Kilian and Rogaway in CRYPTO '96: [The] results don't say that it's impossible to build a machine which would break DESX in a reasonable amount of time. But they do imply that such a machine would have to employ some radically new idea: it couldn't be a machine implementing a key-search attack, in the general sense which we've described. (Quoted from the CryptoBytes article.) > How would one break it in a practical cracker machine ? Maybe not at all; see above. From nym2 at dongco.hyperreal.art.pl Tue Oct 13 17:15:40 1998 From: nym2 at dongco.hyperreal.art.pl (Nym 2) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 08:15:40 +0800 Subject: question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <19981013224540.15380.qmail@serek.arch.pwr.wroc.pl> "Bernie B. Terrado" wrote: > traceroute, is it effective as ping or finger. > what other info would I have to know about it ping just tells you that a host is reachable. finger gives you information on who is logged in, which real name is associated to an address etc. traceroute gives you a list of hosts that are used to connect from your site to the other host. you can use traceroute and whois to figure out where a host is located, who is their isp, etc. From rms at gnu.org Tue Oct 13 18:08:40 1998 From: rms at gnu.org (Richard Stallman) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 09:08:40 +0800 Subject: Two? ways people could use your code Message-ID: <199810140046.UAA06980@psilocin.gnu.org> People have brought up the argument of the two classes of possible users of a library: those who want to write a free program, and those who want to write a proprietary program. This is a valid approach, but we must consider all the terms in the equation. There are actually three classes of possible projects that might use code you have written: * Those who want to make a free program. * Those who want to make a proprietary program. * Those who don't have strong views about the matter. So let's look at each of these three cases, considering two available choices (copylefting, or not copylefting), and how the decision affects the goals of encouraging use of encryption, discouraging back doors, and encouraging users' freedom. * Some people believe in free software and will make their additions free no matter what. Whether you use copyleft makes no difference in this kind of case. * Often at companies, and sometimes at universities, people are dead set on making a proprietary program. This program may be capable of doing a job, but its users will not have freedom, and they will have to take it on faith that there are no backdoors. Copylefting your code says this project cannot use it. Most likely, the project will spend some extra money to write their own code, and the outcome for the public will be much the same. They might do a worse job, or a better job. There's some chance they would not do the project; whether that is a loss for the public is not clear. It could mean less use of encryption; but if you also care about avoiding secret back doors, and about users' freedom, you won't see this as an unambiguous loss. * Often at universities, and sometimes at companies, people decide to write a program but don't think about whether to make it free software. They may not care, they may dislike thinking about the issue, they may simply not understand that there is an issue. In these cases, they will probably judge your code by its features, not by its distribution terms. If they want to use your code, and your terms say that's permitted only if their program is free, they'll say, "Ok, I'll make it free, and use your code." In this kind of case, using copyleft will produce a benefit: more freedom for the end user, who can check, rather than trust, that there are no back doors in the program. Conclusion: if you care *only* about more use of encryption, and *absolutely not* about secret back doors or users' freedom, then you would find it a better strategy not to copyleft. But if you care about encouraging use of encryption, about discouraging back doors, and about freedom for software users, copyleft (such as the GNU GPL) is a good way of promoting all of these goals together. From nobody at replay.com Tue Oct 13 18:49:42 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 09:49:42 +0800 Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.35: F.B.I. Set to Begin Using National DNA Database In-Reply-To: <199810132157.OAA10034@netcom13.netcom.com> Message-ID: <199810140129.DAA24367@replay.com> NICHOLAS WADE writes > Access to the DNA data base is permitted only for law enforcement > purposes, with a $100,000 fine for unauthorized disclosures... Is this supposed to be good news, or bad? As usual, those with the greatest ability to misuse the data -- and the greatest desire to do so -- control the database. From jya at pipeline.com Tue Oct 13 18:59:30 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 09:59:30 +0800 Subject: Ex-NSA Cryptanalyst Message-ID: <199810140139.VAA01903@dewdrop2.mindspring.com> We'd like to get the affidavit, search warrants and complaint for the ex-NSA cryptanalyst, David Sheldon Boone, arrested for spying to see what the specific allegations are. See court docket below. News reports say he is being held in Alexandria, VA, so a lead to a legal doc retrieval service in that area would be appreciated. Or should anyone have the docket-listed docs, copies would be welcomed: Fax: 212-799-4003 Snail: John Young 251 West 89th Street, Suite 6E New York, NY 10024 Vox: 212-873-8700 X---------------------------------------------------------------------------X PACER session date: Tuesday October 13, 1998 09:29:28 PM EST Docket as of October 13, 1998 6:21 pm Page 1 Proceedings include all events. 1:98m 882-ALL USA v. Boone U.S. District Court Eastern District of Virginia (Alexandria) CRIMINAL DOCKET FOR CASE #: 98-M -882-ALL USA v. Boone Filed: 10/13/98 Dkt# in other court: None Case Assigned to: Magistrate Judge Theresa Carroll Buchanan DAVID SHELDON BOONE (1) defendant Defendant Assigned to: Magistrate Judge W. Curtis Sewell Pending Counts: NONE Terminated Counts: NONE Complaints Disposition 18:794(a) and 3238 Espionage U. S. Attorneys: Charles Rosenberg [COR LD NTC] U.S. Attorney's Office 2100 Jamieson Avenue Alexandria, VA 22314 (703) 299-3700 FTS 574-3700 Docket as of October 13, 1998 6:21 pm Page 2 Proceedings include all events. 1:98m 882-ALL USA v. Boone 10/9/98 1 SEALED COMPLAINT as to David Sheldon Boone (avax) [Entry date 10/13/98] 10/9/98 2 AFFIDAVIT by USA as to David Sheldon Boone Re: [1-1] complaint (avax) [Entry date 10/13/98] 10/9/98 3 MOTION by USA to Seal search warrants [2-1] affidavit by USA, [1-1] complaint (avax) [Entry date 10/13/98] 10/9/98 4 ORDER as to David Sheldon Boone granting [3-1] motion by USA to Seal search warrants [2-1] affidavit by USA, [1-1] complaint as to David Sheldon Boone (1) ( Signed by Magistrate Judge Theresa C. Buchanan ) Copies Mailed: yes (avax) [Entry date 10/13/98] 10/9/98 -- Arrest WARRANT issued as to David Sheldon Boone (avax) [Entry date 10/13/98] 10/13/98 5 ORDER as to David Sheldon Boone, Unsealing Complaint Search Warrants, and affidavit ( Signed by Magistrate Judge W. C. Sewell ) Copies Mailed: yes (avax) [Entry date 10/13/98] 10/13/98 -- Complaint unsealed as to David Sheldon Boone (avax) [Entry date 10/13/98] 10/13/98 -- Initial appearance as to David Sheldon Boone held before Magistrate Judge W. C. Sewell ( Tape #266.) USA appeared through: T. Connolly. Dft(s) appeared through: w/attys; Sinlair and Clark (Defendant informed of rights.) US motions for detention-granted. Deft. waives PH reserves the right to a bond hearing at a later date. Deft. is remanded to the custody of the USMS w/o bond pending action og the GJ. (ntho) [Entry date 10/13/98] [Edit date 10/13/98] 10/13/98 6 Waiver of Preliminary Examination or Hearing by David Sheldon Boone (ntho) [Entry date 10/13/98] [END OF DOCKET: 1:98m 882-0] From sdn at divcom.slimy.com Tue Oct 13 19:00:11 1998 From: sdn at divcom.slimy.com (SDN) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 10:00:11 +0800 Subject: FYI: More on WebTV security In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <19981013183214.A26717@divcom.slimy.com> On Tue, Oct 13, 1998 at 11:58:37AM -0500, Steve Bryan wrote: > Has anyone hacked WebTV to enable a terminal to connect to a plain vanilla > ISP (or better yet a local ethernet) or is it inexorably tied to their > network of proxy servers? I get the impression that like a Newton or any > other graphically limited device a WebTV browser would have to be aided by > a proxy server that translates the content to more amenable form before it > can take a crack at it. If it were possible to divorce it from their > service it might be a nifty device for less than $100. This would become > especially appealing if 128 bit crypto were thrown into the bargain. The WebTV units are in fact tied to the WebTV service. You can use another ISP to reach the service, though, at a reduced cost. (Search for OpenISP at webtv.net.) Retrofitting ethernet onto a box isn't practical. The proxy servers do transform data, but I don't think the software in the box requires it. My understanding was that the transformations were just for faster downloads, and did things like rescale images. It doesn't matter much, because there isn't a way to avoid using them. More relevant to the list, the threat model for the WebTV service/box is primarily concerned about loss of user data, forgotten passwords, and unsecured data over the public internet. It's not worried about privacy from WebTV insiders. As a result, all user data is stored on the service, traffic to and from the box is encrypted, and data isn't hidden from the customer care people. If that doesn't fit what you want out of it (and it doesn't seem very close to a consensus cypherpunks threat model), don't get one. I think it's the best attempt at an easy-to-use network computer on the market, but I don't use one myself. It's not what I want. Jon Leonard The above opinions are mine and not WebTV's. From nobody at replay.com Tue Oct 13 19:01:25 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 10:01:25 +0800 Subject: ATTN: BlackNet, sog's keys 4 sale Message-ID: <199810140141.DAA25717@replay.com> Dear BlackNet, TOTO Enterprises, Bienfait, Saskatchewan hereby offers for sale sog's key under the BlackNet anonymous information market. Payments must be in anonymous ecash delivered to a digital dead drop to be arranged later. Or alternatively, we are willing to take bids in bottles of Scotch delivered to TOTO Key Escrow Services, Box 281, Bienfait, Saskatchewan SOC OMO. Please find enclosed Son of Gomez's key. Sincerely, Toto -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.2 hDwDqeLyyFpa0WsBAYCBbyWMo5Iw6imvX1D2Y3GRp3kuCGnEbgPRmQTyOKHoiSoi teyTpjuZNrAw9iGrvAamAAAEQShD47SVtGHkxHYI8BmXb+tvF65wOkOwClzYFjVL cBAD7FcyE8JqWiKVu5+iYEGqqIWkbVX61RetGDSVaErIOESUcRPce5e5muzWMfhe vFEaeu1IC3MnE3qmvEyJu6uTuQk/ahkLf5/l5ouprhIPs4yCxQhOM8WPIMy/pCuO QnVgQ2g4vYDPYRb4bRZXw9cKoKpbfKcrST5SXkfNVrYoAQf8WozqdIMGeeDoVWLG h7NjbtTsCbnO79DZm/b2fblKVQHVoJH+U60F2/b2WFx/JWDnacocJdfAzaeit3mJ FSEcPo1R5JDkfm022MJ7vaSKPpGjIhWS+07kyPLFf0Au1spr23Sabvmznkm8AXZZ tnUAjHY1PQvIqMwmZ+JZd5ihC72S1/b9mQwha/ICnwjCRSi3VJ9GJByiZ7Gpra09 UC8whkc6mVhJxXLzFoLKNvVg1nt5QXyRu7TpVjTgtTfusFhYkZ6sV6BMn6Rq1ppX DLqsZ+XWgYWAjrLeJv4z743LpB+NPQQIM4gklyggCY51VlW26JmXOu9Zv+J58Nqx O3S2MPaecYt/0yFKy80KdMYEAQycWaaWq00b4WIPzO/39oxhlAtdV7Xp9t5VFE9N f3Xnc8hyqrcHlJWMro+xLaWofJv/45GE5jz+oCZ0L0s2hxhZf5I2fRro65RZeBJl JNxuDl7iYAmUSXzH+taiHqZ4H9+6YLMxRVKHL4cFXUDIJ+JiUB+lFQy1GGaTh8YR uXfAtjiew2bCqaUmov7phgzwjnZD4iiLWrR4z4IyA3xkvAaFrPgprBDmp6SaTX4E Q43rrjgr+a/dc5vzm9rZ0BywIC60+1h7bz/Qu5jq0EAqitSXHHbjBbwxC8mAtjyK HpG3917gWIgJk82N6sNWywLBJLmkWusLLj6Z3YKTixjhoFC01WDaPvX/nc2nBuJ+ qEaAmi7fwD1IlESiC2wpKOFUR1zRxkk1X7+n1fdDTyfl6XnhHkOfj2iMyID+PHl6 A+0a+io89tEUNslh/YefcX6pNNtbeeetr9ySzAM3pS+264b7Fi9bw+NpV2BgsaST 0u9Yspjv3uQHPa6g2zFXkMSYzsOqmK9lblw29djiOGAe8g/xH9Xww/IpItNTG2aa St3AYPssbceylpwy8o1/mSgp5roaM6wQ//xkGSkIoPV3I9bdPckgo/IKJEuaLh0d XT7JGxHvG+Bb1jU/nPIod4YJIAPR8nKGwSGaHq/RyKXyVr7k7HQTqs+wrZ53zvEb HTqFOAa1oiYGJyyIiO73yeedYcXnc0uW77RqaBqQA0+ViTAs69GD2piK1sEzBP5J mDxeQvseR0H/i84bkGLUsHRcV/b/CoAmn+sbvSFRrtsO5G5gvejqJpZR69qMIo/J afwGLv3K/O1YVACKJme+3xHTEiGrCu3BfYoLDNdl0ubYqW0DSmOXyuhtcn+JlNoa GOsu7Q== =MILa -----END PGP MESSAGE----- *** The Fire House Inn *** Come visit us Telnet: fhouse.org WWW: fhouse.org *********** From owner-cypherpunks at toad.com Tue Oct 13 19:10:26 1998 From: owner-cypherpunks at toad.com (owner-cypherpunks at toad.com) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 10:10:26 +0800 Subject: Earn your worth not mlm!!! 330-258-9131 Message-ID: <199810140141.SAA13879@toad.com> I AM LOOKING FOR 2 TO 4 PEOPLE WHO ARE READY TO TAKE CHARGE OF THEIR FINANCIAL FUTURE!! IF YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF OVER WORKED AND UNDER PAID AND WOULD LIKE TO BE IN A DIFFERENT POSITION 6 MONTHS FROM NOW, CALL THIS 1 MINUTE MESSAGE THAT WILL EMPOWER YOU FOR THE FUTURE. This is not multilevel or network marketing!!(330) 258-9131 From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Tue Oct 13 20:10:22 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:10:22 +0800 Subject: INFO-RUSS: moving to Chicago... (fwd) Message-ID: <199810140252.VAA09655@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: >From INFO-RUSS-request at smarty.ece.jhu.edu Tue Oct 13 21:42:32 1998 Message-Id: <9810140035.AA02214 at smarty.ece.jhu.edu> Errors-To: INFO-RUSS-request at smarty.ece.jhu.edu Sender: INFO-RUSS-request at smarty.ece.jhu.edu From: MARGOL at newman.basnet.minsk.by To: info-russ at smarty.ece.jhu.edu Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:18:47 +1200 Subject: INFO-RUSS: moving to Chicago... --------------------------------------------------------------------- This is INFO-RUSS broadcast (1200+ subscribers). Home page, information, and archives: http://psi.ece.jhu.edu/~kaplan/IRUSS/inforuss.html To post, or to subscribe/unsubscribe, mail to info-russ at smarty.ece.jhu.edu INFO-RUSS assumes no responsibility for the information/views of its users. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi! 1. I am going to move in Chicago in the end of this year and I am looking for a job there. Brief information: Belarussian State University (mathamatics dep.), Ph.D. in mathematics (algebra, arithmetic geometry) in 1995, during some period was interested in algebraic methods in the image processing, now dealing with mathematical (algebraic and partially statistical) methods in data security (cryptography), programming experience in Visual C++ 5.0 (C++, MFC, DB, ActiveX by MFC). I am ready to sent my CV, list of my papers, and any other detailed information needed. I am also looking for colleagues everywhere! 2. By the way, in some info-russ letters the problem of e-mail privacy was discussed. I would like to write some words on that topic. There is always a great risk that your envelope can be opened before its arrival. And there is the unique way to keep the privacy: encrypt the letter before sending. It is especially important, if your letter contains your bank account number, credit card number and so on. The same situation takes place in case of e-mail. The cheapest, simplest, and most reliable way is to apply some cryptosystem (with either public or private key). Good cryptosystems are totally practically unbreakable. You can use coding programs built in your Internet browser, in your e-mail program or separate encrypting-decrypting programs (for example, PGP). Attention: the export of crypto programs is strictly forbidden by the american law. But everyone can get such programs by Internet on the European servers without any restrictions. Some nice helpful books on that topic: - "Personal Computer Security" by Ed Tiley (for users), - "Internet Security Secrets" by John R. Vacca (both for users and specialists), - "Handbook of Applied Cryptography" by Alfred Menezes and others (for specialists). Best regards, Genady. MARGOL at newman.basnet.minsk.by From jya at pipeline.com Tue Oct 13 20:39:35 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:39:35 +0800 Subject: Aaron Debunks Crypto Myths Message-ID: <199810140316.XAA17126@dewdrop2.mindspring.com> Crypto emissary David Aaron gave a speech today in Germany boosting US encryption policy for privacy and commerce. Says it's an insult to claim US intelligence agencies want backdoor access and other untrue myths: http://jya.com/aaron101398.htm ----- Thanks to JM for pointing. From sysadmin at mfn.org Tue Oct 13 21:24:29 1998 From: sysadmin at mfn.org (Missouri FreeNet Administration) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:24:29 +0800 Subject: Gary Burnore vs. Earth (Was: Value of Annon. Remailers) Message-ID: <01BDF6FA.C42BBEA0@noc.mfn.org> First off, let us state up front that this is an aside to the previous poster, and not totally on-point: feel free to hit the delete key, and accept our apologies if this is a problem. About two months ago, we met the infamous Burnore & Company while defending a semi-annonymous UseNet poster calling himself "Outlaw-Frog-Raper". It seems that in classical Burnore style "OFR" found himself the sudden victim of [literally] daily TOS/SPAM complaints by Burnore and Co. for making use of UseNet to air his decidedly anti-police positions (it's odd how "pro police" Burnore is, isn't it?). Obviously, as defenders of this man's right to post material offensive to Burnore, we too came under attack. Fortunately, we have been with our upstream provider for a long time, and are on *very* good terms: they told Burnore to keep his complaints to himself. But I digress... As this "war" intensified, we attempted to determine just who in the hell this lunatic *was*, as nobody here is a regular Usenet follower (just when we have our slow periods, we'll check in with the loons to kill a couple of hours...). To our surprise, we discovered that while Burnore/Databasix/etc. are known far and wide, the actual traffic that passes between them and the rest of the Earthly population is pretty well eradicated. Here's a guy who has actually sat down and deleted (according to DejaNews) *tens of thousands* of his -own- posts! Not to mention the unknown number of posts which he has "thoughtfully taken care of for those others who forgot to do so themselves"... The point here is that what little survives about this lunatic child molester (he has even successfully had his North Carolina Sex Offender record removed!), has almost all come through *some* annonymizer. Whether a MixMaster, or Cajones (RIP) "intentional annonymizer", or an "unintentional annonymizer" such as a large [cypherpunks] listserv with "bad headers". We submit that it only takes one successful argument, even though there be a million such arguments available, to "proof" the value of an annoymous remailer. we then extend the original Burnore story (presented in part below) in further support. Yes, I know, at least half of you are sitting here going "now why did they bother us with that?". The answer is we feel VERY strongly that if not for what [little] we were able to find as a result of A/R's, we would never have been able to figure this clown out at all. And loco though he may be, he is also a *prodigious* pain in the ass, who represents a real, true threat to what little freedoms we still have in the US. Burnore isn't a loner in the political sense: he's actually becoming pretty mainstream. If A/R's can help to keep scum like him in the light, where he can't hide his hypocrises [sp?] through a cancel or "DejaNuke", then they are one of our most important national resources, and should be defended (and *funded*) as such! Just our [very biased] $.02 worth... The full-time [yet totally volunteer] staff of Missouri FreeNet: J.A. Terranson, sysadmin at mfn.org John Blau, jb214 at mfn.org Beatrice Hynes, beatrice at mfn.org Frescenne "M", support at mfn.org A. Pates, support at mfn.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- Consider the episode last year with Gary Burnore and DataBasix vs. Jeff Burchell and his Mailmasher and Huge Cajones machines. Made-to-order abuse appeared right on cue to reinforce the claims that Burnore and his girlfriend Belinda Bryan had made. And now we've learned the real truth behind the whole episode. While Gary Burnore was living with another girlfriend in Santa Clara, CA, he was also molesting her teenaged daughter. An anonymous whistleblower attempted to warn the girl's mother as well as her school officials by anonymous e-mail. Burnore went ballistic and falsely claimed "harassment". But the whistleblower was ultimately vindicated when Burnore pled guilty to the molestation charge, was placed on probation, and was required to register as a sex offender. Unable to silence the whistleblower, Burnore began a campaign of harassment against the operators of the remailers that were being used to expose him. IOW, if you can't refute the message, shoot the messenger. And if you can't shoot the messenger, attempt to disable his means of communication (the remailers net). I recounted this case history, which can be researched in various usenet archives by anyone interested, just to demonstrate that one man's "harassment" can well be another man's investigative journalism, even if the journalist or whistleblower is not in a position to expose him/herself to retaliation by the wrongdoer, which has been (coincidentally?) reported by virtually anyone who has dared to challenge Gary Burnore publicly. From tcmay at got.net Tue Oct 13 21:29:05 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:29:05 +0800 Subject: ATTN: BlackNet, sog's keys 4 sale In-Reply-To: <199810140141.DAA25717@replay.com> Message-ID: At 6:41 PM -0700 10/13/98, Anonymous wrote: >Dear BlackNet, > >TOTO Enterprises, Bienfait, Saskatchewan hereby offers >for sale sog's key under the BlackNet anonymous >information market. > >Payments must be in anonymous ecash delivered to a >digital dead drop to be arranged later. > >Or alternatively, we are willing to take bids in >bottles of Scotch delivered to TOTO Key Escrow >Services, Box 281, Bienfait, Saskatchewan SOC OMO. Hey, I could tell you all that BlackNet was used a while back to distribute some of the keys used by The Performance Artist Sometimes Known as Toto. But that then might earn _me_ a subpoena, so I won't. There are more things in cyberspace than are dreamt of in our religions, Horatio Alger (hiss). --Tim May Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From tcmay at got.net Tue Oct 13 21:38:13 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:38:13 +0800 Subject: Ex-NSA Cryptanalyst In-Reply-To: <199810140139.VAA01903@dewdrop2.mindspring.com> Message-ID: At 6:31 PM -0700 10/13/98, John Young wrote: >We'd like to get the affidavit, search warrants and complaint >for the ex-NSA cryptanalyst, David Sheldon Boone, arrested >for spying to see what the specific allegations are. See court >docket below. > >News reports say he is being held in Alexandria, VA, so a >lead to a legal doc retrieval service in that area would be >appreciated. > >Or should anyone have the docket-listed docs, copies would be >welcomed: This focus on former list members is getting tiresome. We knew him as Davy Boone, of course, and helped him develop new modes of communication to undermine the state. The proprietary managerial techniques he transferred to the Soviets, helping to turn them into Pointy Hair Managers, hastened the collapse of the U.S.S.R. Something all crypto anarchists should support. And for this Davy Boone is being persecuted? Gimme a break. We need more digital cutouts, not fewer. --Tim May Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From picc98 at wowmail.com Wed Oct 14 16:31:38 1998 From: picc98 at wowmail.com (picc98 at wowmail.com) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 16:31:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: POWER & MAGIC OF E-MAIL!!! Message-ID: <199810142331.QAA24092@cygint.cygnus.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 7930 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Richard.Bragg at ssa.co.uk Wed Oct 14 02:11:32 1998 From: Richard.Bragg at ssa.co.uk (Richard.Bragg at ssa.co.uk) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 17:11:32 +0800 Subject: DNA Message-ID: <8025669D.002F7404.00@seunt002e.ssa.co.uk> DNA testing can never prove anything. It can rule out someone completely and statistically make it very unlikely to be anyone else. But what about identical sib's. They all have exactly the same DNA! There are cases of such children where one becomes a pillar of society and the other less so. A DNA database would allow loads of stuff to be done. How about a designed disease or toxin that only affects certain gene carriers. This could be added to the food chain at any time you wanted to incapacitate a particular person or group of people without comprimising any one else. Fun hmmm!!! From nobody at replay.com Wed Oct 14 02:56:23 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 17:56:23 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199810140934.LAA00392@replay.com> >Hello, >The IRS and United States Attorney's office are looking for assistance in >a criminal investigation involving threatening messages which were posted >to the Cypherpunks mailing list. This e-mail address was noted to be one >of those which receives the Cypherpunks list. I would appreciate it if >you would contact me to discuss whether you would be willing to assist us >in this matter, and what records or information you have relating to the >Cypherpunks list. You can contact me at this e-mail address or at (503) >326-2787. Sorry, but I am not aware of any threating messages posted to this list. Of course I can see how your organization may consider calls by the citizens for a return to a Constitutional government a "threat". I woun't be calling you but I will be calling my congressman and senator in the morning reaffirming my support for a flat tax and the abolishment of the IRS. Have a nice day, I am TOTOCUS!! From celltel at mailexcite.com Wed Oct 14 03:24:41 1998 From: celltel at mailexcite.com (celltel at mailexcite.com) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 18:24:41 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199810140951.CAA16815@toad.com> Hello! This information is for those of you who make long distance calls FROM or TO overseas locations Worldwide, or who TRAVEL in the USA or Overseas. IF YOU ARE NOT INTERESTED, BE ASSURED YOU WILL NOT RECEIVE ANY FURTHER MAILINGS FROM US. ARE YOU CURRENTLY ENJOYING THESE RATES?? Can You Call FROM these countries? Can You Call TO these countries? At These Rates? United Kingdom @ 15�/minute Sweden @ 18�/minute Australia @ 22�/minute Germany, or Netherlands @ 23�/minute France @ 24�/minute Switzerland @ 25�/minute Japan @ 36�/minute Israel @ 37�/minute Moscow @ 50�/minute These are just 10 examples of calling rates FROM these 10 countries TO the USA or FROM the USA to these 10 countries! You can call TO or FROM over 200 more countries to ANYWHERE. You can also make calls out of your home or office in the USA to anywhere in the world at the rates above, or you can call anywhere in the USA AWAY of your USA home or office at 16 cents/minute. There is no surcharge, no monthly fee, no minimums on this program use, nor do you switch from your regular carrier to use this service. To Learn all about this service, and to obtain rates for 200 countries, please write an email to CALLBACK at galaxymall.com. In the subject, and body write SEND. You will receive information IMMEDIATELY. Thank You!! Regards, Max Sklower, President MS TELECOM, INC From bill.stewart at pobox.com Wed Oct 14 03:46:20 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 18:46:20 +0800 Subject: FYI: More on WebTV security In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981014032345.00b67940@idiom.com> At 06:32 PM 10/13/98 -0700, SDN wrote: >More relevant to the list, the threat model for the WebTV service/box is >primarily concerned about loss of user data, forgotten passwords, and >unsecured data over the public internet. It's not worried about privacy >from WebTV insiders. >As a result, all user data is stored on the service, traffic to and from the >box is encrypted, and data isn't hidden from the customer care people. If it's not secure against insiders, then it's not only not secure against cops, it's also not secure against crackers, unless Microsoft hsa let the WebTV folks do a very good job of security. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From bill.stewart at pobox.com Wed Oct 14 03:52:14 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 18:52:14 +0800 Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.35: F.B.I. Set to Begin Using National DNA Database In-Reply-To: <199810132157.OAA10034@netcom13.netcom.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981014015357.00bbb580@idiom.com> > > Access to the DNA data base is permitted only for law enforcement > > purposes, with a $100,000 fine for unauthorized disclosures... How long before somebody either subpoenas the database or contests the use in a case in such a way as to drag the entire contents through a court for a discovery process? Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From lar at compwebtech.com Wed Oct 14 18:54:12 1998 From: lar at compwebtech.com (lar at compwebtech.com) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 18:54:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Advertisment for $ 99 WEB HOSTING Message-ID: <199810150154.SAA25202@toad.com> Check it out! 25 megs for only $99 per year with no set up fees. Free registration or change of domain at: www.compwebtech.com If you would like to be removed from our mailing list, please e-mail us to have yourself removed for the list. Thank You, Larry at compwebtech.com From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Wed Oct 14 04:36:35 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 19:36:35 +0800 Subject: overlapping aims -- cypherpunks/FSF (Re: Two? ways people could use your code) In-Reply-To: <199810140046.UAA06980@psilocin.gnu.org> Message-ID: <199810141057.LAA28762@server.eternity.org> Richard Stallman writes: > There are actually three classes of possible projects that might use > code you have written: > > * Those who want to make a free program. > * Those who want to make a proprietary program. > * Those who don't have strong views about the matter. > > So let's look at each of these three cases, considering two available > choices (copylefting, or not copylefting), and how the decision > affects the goals of encouraging use of encryption, discouraging back > doors, and encouraging users' freedom. I see this as a two separate, overlapping aims thing. Aim 1, get lots of crypto out there, quality a secondary issue. Motivation: try to ensure enough people use and know about crypto, so that enough people understand how objectionable it is when governments try to outlaw crypto. Of course encourage use of strong crypto, published, unpatented algorithms, and published source code where this doesn't interfere with deployment. Aim 2, try to encourage people to publish all source code. Motivation: to give end-users more flexibility, and more freedom to do what they want and change as they want the software they use. I use almost exclusively linux myself by choice. > * Often at companies, and sometimes at universities, people are dead > set on making a proprietary program. This program may be capable of > doing a job, but its users will not have freedom, and they will have > to take it on faith that there are no backdoors. > > Copylefting your code says this project cannot use it. Most likely, > the project will spend some extra money to write their own code, and > the outcome for the public will be much the same. They might do a > worse job, or a better job. There's some chance they would not do > the project; whether that is a loss for the public is not clear. Most deployed crypto is commercial, most used software is commercial. (Insert proprietary instead of commercial if this makes it clearer what I mean). Therefore it seems to me that successes in getting crypto put in commercial software which would not otherwise be there are important. Your average linux/unix/GNU hacker is well above average in technical competence, and can look after himself. He can get the source for pgp, check it to some extent, and understand the issues. He is not the target for the deployment. The target for deployment is the mass market end-user (think windows95 users). At present it is a statement of reality that most end-users are using windows95. > It could mean less use of encryption; but if you also care about > avoiding secret back doors, and about users' freedom, you won't > see this as an unambiguous loss. Surreptitious company inserted unpublished back doors are rare I think, much more likely is crypto-incompetence leading to unintentional weakness. Cypherpunks also have had some successes in cracking weak systems as a way to encourage the vendors to fix the problems. Encouraging open source, and published protocols, especially for crypto components is a good idea as it encourages peer review. > * Often at universities, and sometimes at companies, people decide to > write a program but don't think about whether to make it free > software. They may not care, they may dislike thinking about the > issue, they may simply not understand that there is an issue. > > In these cases, they will probably judge your code by its features, > not by its distribution terms. If they want to use your code, and > your terms say that's permitted only if their program is free, > they'll say, "Ok, I'll make it free, and use your code." > > In this kind of case, using copyleft will produce a benefit: more > freedom for the end user, who can check, rather than trust, that > there are no back doors in the program. Agree. > Conclusion: if you care *only* about more use of encryption, and > *absolutely not* about secret back doors or users' freedom, then you > would find it a better strategy not to copyleft. The secret doors we are concerned to fight against are being engineered by governments. Usually they are out in the open (clipper, KRAP, etc). > But if you care about encouraging use of encryption, about > discouraging back doors, and about freedom for software users, > copyleft (such as the GNU GPL) is a good way of promoting all of these > goals together. GNU GPL not a bad way to further these two goals simultaneously, but I think BSD (or I think you say that X11 license is better) is better for the purpose. Or GNU LGPL (Library GPL) I think is a good compromise position: it allows use in proprietary software without requiring the rest of the code to be GNU GPLed, and it encourages free access to the crypto portion (if we are talking about crypto libraries and tools). Would you be interested in publishing GNUPG, and other GNU crypto utilities and libraries under GNU LGPL? And adopting this for crypto code as a general GNU strategy? There are other libraries, so it should qualify. (Tom Zerucha wrote a OpenPGP implementation using SSLeay, and I think said he would public domain his software). Adam -- print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Message-ID: <199810141153.MAA29777@server.eternity.org> Tim May comments on: > At 6:41 PM -0700 10/13/98, Anonymous wrote: > >Dear BlackNet, > > > >TOTO Enterprises, Bienfait, Saskatchewan hereby offers > >for sale sog's key under the BlackNet anonymous > >information market. > > > >Payments must be in anonymous ecash delivered to a > >digital dead drop to be arranged later. > > > >Or alternatively, we are willing to take bids in > >bottles of Scotch delivered to TOTO Key Escrow > >Services, Box 281, Bienfait, Saskatchewan SOC OMO. I looked up the key this message was encrypted to on one of the keyservers by it's keyid -- 0x5A5AD16B. Look at this: Type Bits/KeyID Date User ID pub 384/5A5AD16B 1994/02/11 *** KEY REVOKED *** BlackNet A revoked key, and a rather small key size, this rings a bell, some of you may recall that some time ago Paul Leyland factored that key. In fact I have the hex version of it on my own web pages somewhere as an example to use with rsa-perl. A quick altavista on "Leyland BlackNet" turns up the goods [1] below. (http://www.irdg.com/mep/nni/384broke.txt) > Hey, I could tell you all that BlackNet was used a while back to > distribute some of the keys used by The Performance Artist Sometimes > Known as Toto. Well this message does indeed seem to contain a key for: Type Bits/KeyID Date User ID sec 1024/2541C535 1997/11/07 son of gomez and some claimed passwords for a "carljohn" sympatico account. Curiouser and curiouser. Intentional or not? Intentional I think from the contents, [2]. Adam [1] ====================================================================== ------- Forwarded Message From: pcl at sable.ox.ac.uk (Paul Leyland) Newsgroups: alt.security.pgp,sci.crypt,alt.privacy Subject: The BlackNet 384-bit PGP key has been BROKEN Date: 26 Jun 1995 10:09:15 GMT Organization: Oxford University, England Lines: 165 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: sable.ox.ac.uk Xref: mozo.cc.purdue.edu alt.security.pgp:21006 sci.crypt:40008 alt.privacy:225 76 - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- We announce the first known hostile attack on a PGP public key. In 1993, Tim May created BlackNet as a proof-of-concept implementation of an information trading business with cryptographically protected anonymity of the traders. He created a 1024-bit key, and invited potential traders to encrypt their sales pitch and a public key for a reply with the BlackNet key, posting the result in one or more Usenet newsgroups. BlackNet would then reply in the same manner. The original proposal went only to a few people and May acknowledged his authorship shortly afterwards, when his pedagogical point had been made. It was soon posted to the Cypherpunks list, and from there to Usenet. Six months afterwards in February 1994, a 384-bit key was created in the BlackNet name, and the BlackNet message was spammed to hundreds of newsgroups by the new key owner, L. Detweiler. At least one message was posted encrypted in the 384-bit key. The encryptor, either by design or by unwitting use of PGP's encrypttoself option, also encrypted the message to his own key, exposing his identity to anyone who cared to look him up on the key servers and use finger. Factoring 384-bit integers is not too difficult these days. We wanted to see whether it could be done surreptitiously. Jim Gillogly picked the 384-bit BlackNet key as a suitable target, partly because of its apparent interest and partly because he had saved a copy of the reply. Paul Leyland took the key to pieces. The public exponent was found to be 17 and the public modulus: 3193508200533105601431099148202479609827976414818808019973596061739243\ 9454375249389462927646908605384634672078311787 To factor this 116-digit integer, we used the same technology as the RSA-129 project which completed last year. That computation was so large that it was necessary for it to be done in a blaze of publicity in order to attract enough resources. Ours, we estimated, would take about 400 mips-years, less than a tenth of the earlier one. Arjen Lenstra and Paul Leyland have been factoring integers for years, Lenstra with a MasPar at Bellcore and Leyland with a dozen or so workstations at Oxford University. Alec Muffett has been contributing to factorizations for almost a year, using forty or so machines outside working hours at Sun Microsystems UK. Jim Gillogly threw a couple of machines into the pot, for a total peak power of around 1300 mips, plus the MasPar. The computation began on March 21st on the workstations and continued until June 23rd. Lenstra slipped in three weeks runtime on the MasPar between other factorizations; he also performed the matrix elimination and emailed the factors (PGP-encrypted) to Leyland. About 50% of the computation was done by the MasPar. The factors, as can easily be checked, are: 5339087830436043471661182603767776462059952694953696338283 and 5981374163444491764200506406323036446616491946408786956289 Over in Oxford, a doctored PGP was created. It could generate only one secret key, that from two primes hard-coded into it. The key was generated and tested on the following message: > -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- > Version: 2.6 > > hDwDqeLyyFpa0WsBAYCumTBz0ZUBL7wC8pMXS4mBS0m3Cf6PrPer+2A0EQXJZM46 > OvPnqNWz5QK3Lwyg9DeEqAPF5jH/anmgXQEE3RNhybQUcqnOSVGMO2f5hjltI73L > 8CRXhFzMCgjdCwTRf0Oq61j4RAptUviqhDq/r7J2FpY7GwpL5DxuJ+YrWNep69LK > Q/CkKxtwvv2f0taly4HCLCcqw59GQ5m++WnOwDQWKG7yUaXJuUG/mJdr/o+ia3y+ > QKyqOesHdSjWoXDpK7F2Cvxf2KpV3+vzbv+TriRyDV+zR/8womdJl6YAAAKtmWO2 > fy0sp/cqr/1ZGQKmfZWz5L0bh1e/sJXJq9PjvPc05ePxZ35XEoRTCqxbq2GPynkH > YSynfXZY//814TKmdQxPBvkc8Nbi0rc/GYyoAmItDui4mQISYskGkmLieoWDDlpP > E9tZlb/7Xa22QS53Or6DwU/y226WXQvrWq5OJ+8OhQyEnLWsEdfgFoe1l9aeweX5 > 0ao5lcp098Q4JFfQWoaU9D7kmKvg+AVT44Pv16/nPvihAoC2O14xg7t1U8032ybs > 4FLpvxyqoF7+oDV/QNw4Evk1ZnxE5+PH2sOf1qCJdljVSd3wGSfUQaDPRx5RH0XC > SAgYMsIRaytpdoq521tHUZt2BIg7Ii89TfUBrnkenBFAqdZAf+JR1PSB4yaV3YtG > PCS4lNQkmWx+ItjP0zsHVcAR0TiBcpV0gMY+tx0h40CTkDi2vHiVyswSJr4halsW > SIixrdi6B0i3f7v7xlOpFI2khza1c/dH8nrF1uPLECeAZ8TQq53ZlyN472KYuTVZ > 8y5NqyXd672dYEtzsOlUa9YwFKKyGisyDhZmE5wSOg2Pjopvl0WkuZSR/kdxrX/N > hFdfXRy1Kgkr+vz9abumhcWS5lYCCfVLk/CIgRqHO09nlEJCTb1T/U788Gptr3/d > 3dj8C/LECdY7fIdkmTgYhXmfv7fQxLWln29Yux0cEpRq2ud8rjYVSuEaTUO9dF4n > 9oFRsPdbb0TOxaMVFm2hnELzeKAk/poInfEZkN2ZnusxJ4aM1HkBRva+CAMhQHdT > XMisoNawWEDPwiwu91owIrBevPJNvX155jUTwKNj0UPBwS6TfS5gXl9g+LoBnMWQ > nbMMMYVXbJVsAeVOlzTSBftpbglx1k7ocDaAJTZ3OCjf0FcKJsa+4Hybc713611c > WSHV5esfY9k/yw== > =nLfz > -----END PGP MESSAGE----- A successful decryption resulted in: > Although I realize blacknet was a hoax of some sort, I'm curious as > to the reasons behind it and I would like to know the motives of the > person who did it, malicious to make fun of cypher punks or simply > poking fun at cyberspace in general. > I'm interested in forming a similar net, not for the buying and > selling of information, but for the fun of doing it, who knows what might > come about in a network somewhat limited and away from the internet, but > based on pgp without people flaming, and without the netloons like > dwetler and sternlight, (I have my doubts about dwetler's actual motives > in spamming the mailers) > SO, hopefully they key I encrypt it to is the actual one, and if not > hopefully whoever is intercepting this is as interested in creating > what I am, why else be eaves dropping?? > Looking forward to hearing from whoever out there, and > I hope you're competent enough with unix to extract my pgp key > from my .plan > > > -- > Finger yusuf921 at raven.csrv.uidaho.edu for PGP public key 2.6ui > GJ/GP -d+ H+ g? au0 a- w+++ v+(?)(*) C++++ U++1/2 N++++ M-- -po+ Y+++ > - t++ 5-- j++ R b+++ D+ B--- e+(*) u** h* r+++ y? > > > The next step was to create a revocation certificate and send that off to the PGP key servers. After all, the key has undoubtedly been compromised. The moral of this story is that 384-bit keys can be broken by a small team of people working in secret and with modest resources. Lest anyone object that a MasPar is not a modest resource, we'd re-iterate that it did only 50% of the work; that we took only three months and that we used only 50 or so quite ordinary workstations. We believe that we could have used at least twice as many machines for at least twice as long without anyone noticing. The currently minimum recommended key size, 512 bits, is safe from the likes of us for the time being, but we should be able to break them within five years or so. Organizations with more than "modest resources" can almost certainly break 512-bit keys in secret right now. Alec Muffett alec.muffett at uk.sun.com Paul Leyland pcl at oucs.ox.ac.uk Arjen Lenstra lenstra at bellcore.com Jim Gillogly jim at acm.org and, of course, BlackNet 8-) P.S. The 384-bit BlackNet secret key is: > -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- > Version: 2.6.2i > > lQDAAy/ty1QAAAEBgM98haqmu+pqkoqkr95iMmBTNgb+iL54kUJCoBSOrT0Rqsmz > KHcVaQ+p4vLIWlrRawAFEQABfAw0gFVVGhzZF63Nc8HJin4jAy2WgIOsvST5ne1Y > CbfyDIZ6siTHUAos8wMBQZ6Q8QDA2b6tiYqrGu6E1+F0DGPSk9MGif5/LKFrAMDz > 8HXIK1zrEFEDq9/5dUXO2rk1tH+mkAEAv0EE9e5EJn+quL3/YvAg6bKOlM7HgVKq > JEDDtCBCbGFja05ldDxub3doZXJlQGN5YmVyc3BhY2UubmlsPg== > =/BEI > -----END PGP MESSAGE----- - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6 iQCVAwUBL+6HEzt/x7zOdmsfAQGRpQP9FZluArrT5+zsG/R6y/MF7O3d7ArEkVe2 rUQgP7W2NxudAFHTNaL9mqLBDVNW/3PqWIhvHMtrSgG+ZAFBH5bP03tizfOFr+SL eO1JQgYFey7Wh5J/YCuE0VTlYMZ7bhnoiGIvTYZgxIzVWAYyGmlWKRDjfKz/Pks8 qavbPg6qbPo= =s12J - -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- - -- Paul Leyland | Hanging on in quiet desperation is Oxford University Computing Services | the English way. 13 Banbury Road, Oxford, OX2 6NN, UK | The time is gone, the song is over. Tel: +44-1865-273200 Fax: 273275 | Thought I'd something more to say. Finger pcl at sable.ox.ac.uk for PGP key | ------- End of forwarded message ------- [2] ====================================================================== ATTN: Jeff Gordon As a bonus PRIZE for people figuring this out, here's Toto's sympatico username and password: username: carljohn password: 574kxy SMTP: smtp.sk.sympatico.ca POP3: mailhost.sk.sympatico.ca POP3 username: carljohn I sent much of my outgoing mail through CJ's system because he had so many hackers and system intruders that he was a one-man 'Crowds' unit. Toto -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQCNAzRiaHcAAAEEAPdnnUJRJoktl6tMtRcrV330FvNPok4FvTMOT82V0lIRA7ZQ jiAcv4Egm8nx6M6dc75eWIIPo4gZOWf5xjZzN8XjD2ytwMNqQnis0RMN9OI8ysk2 I7frJO0FNLikupHf+tUMhDc52qQbOcsVC53GZ8FdwY1zzaX7Dc5WpAclQcU1AAUR tB9zb24gb2YgZ29tZXogPEluZm9XYXJAZGV2Lm51bGw+iQCVAwUQNGJph85WpAcl QcU1AQFXPQQA8adaDwM3DnttrJPTjUd9I/fQ6q73Zvp6oLPP3MSon4uEbIVJryPB wZYfcjXb6Co84XFpaL8shtgP0cHYRZDfQraCwsaJWOm1Lh+ZhZyqHh2oF4QrpOhm A5YzxYI7SX3GIu/X1XO5vcb+BnJqbl2+RUaHnGqcwwrwxjSc1stGwJ4= =Yx4A -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- -----BEGIN PGP SECRET KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 lQHgAzRiaHcAAAEEAPdnnUJRJoktl6tMtRcrV330FvNPok4FvTMOT82V0lIRA7ZQ jiAcv4Egm8nx6M6dc75eWIIPo4gZOWf5xjZzN8XjD2ytwMNqQnis0RMN9OI8ysk2 I7frJO0FNLikupHf+tUMhDc52qQbOcsVC53GZ8FdwY1zzaX7Dc5WpAclQcU1AAUR AUzSerlWWdq7A/+EGrDs3oHlVDzmPEouO2m1gWLN6erKPgd5tiB7eWECJoiRC9AU Va2LJLxltmNKIq9znAMeeCpI3nirprYgHMvyASVPrXIo4WXB0NGSyTXSGFbmbfBA ZhIzgLYfSV7KC9e340B4wqQv/hSGyc9p7/umXgdccspoXM4fIwddYNt0+QIA+XS0 WUPNqr4lyW47GVAhFIuoYsTLi+ZTRRQbS2LAyV2dhGSFVo1Q1HrB/S58dQFTaN85 lRytpZKX2dc+9VC3JgIATZegUu3m2FmRMf7kr0IsRV94q0lxQm4egMPdru6CQGZl G7K9uGX/d/Rbtd0iP7aZ1iNDpgSakmNl5o3aYupCdQIAir0t68n1g91DzWwOMJKF 7E9fmQ21a7a2rDGk+5SV9nw3PxGwx/64CPHriDQz/ItYLPZKpHVLysuFGavYUFX/ 26JZtB9zb24gb2YgZ29tZXogPEluZm9XYXJAZGV2Lm51bGw+ =yYBi -----END PGP SECRET KEY BLOCK----- From brownrk1 at texaco.com Wed Oct 14 05:41:46 1998 From: brownrk1 at texaco.com (Brown, R Ken) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 20:41:46 +0800 Subject: DNA Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F84D3@MSX11002> Mike Motyka wrote: > I'm not a biochemist Neither am I but I'm going to classes... > I think modern DNA analysis yields data that bear more > resemblance to a spectrum than anything else. In this > case there is always a good possibility for error. > Remember how large a project the Human Genome > thing is? That is an actual sequencing project. AFAIK police & courts don't use actual sequencing but DNA "typing" or "fingerprinting" - they extract certain well-known genes, a tiny subset of all that are there, and compare them with reference samples. You don't have to actually "read" a gene to be able to match it with another one. The genes they used aren't ones that are expressed either. They are if you like the "comments in the code". Or more likely graffitti because they don't seem to mean much. You can't "prove" that a sample did come from a named individual, but you can prove that it *didn't*. Which is why DNA testing has been popular with defence lawyers in this country (UK) because it has been used by the defence to get people released in a number of famous trials. (There was one poor bloke who got let out of prison after over 20 years when DNA typing showed he couldn't have committed the crime for which he had been convivted. He hadn't been released on parole because to get parole you have to show some contrition and he always claimed he was innocent). You can give a likelihood that a sample came from the same person as another sample though. Or their twin, or parents et.c et.c. It's also been used to get past our notoriously racist immigration officials. They tend to assume that anyone coming into this country as the spouse or parent of a citizen is lying (especially for Asians - they assume that all marriage are arranged or "marriages of convenience" - for some reason white Americans and especially Australians don't have nearly so much trouble.). DNA typing has been used by immigrants to show that they are (probably) the parent. http://www.dartmouth.edu/~cbbc/courses/bio4/bio4-1997/KatieLachter.html has some bumf about DNA evidence in US courts (you are much more suspicios of it than we are) http://www.emf.net/~iisme/actionplans/201.html has instructions for do-it-yourself DNA typing! Unfortunatly it requires equipment you are unlikely to have at home (& do US universities *really* issue such detailed instructions for lab work? "Raise your hand. Move it over the pencil. Move it down until the fingers are in contact with the pencil. Close your fingers round the pencil. Why is it important not to exert too much force with the fingers? Pick up the pencil. Remember the point is sharp and may have been exposed to potentially carcinogenic solvents. Do not stab any part of yourself or any other student. Do not place the point near your eyes, mouth or genitalia. Do not use the pencil in the presence of any minor under the age of 18, or any vertebrate experimental animals, pets or livestock. Do not hand the pencil to anyone not covered by the college's insurance scheme or who has not signed the standard disclaimer form..." OK, I exagerrate. But not much.) Within 20 years techniques that are now restricted to university labs and pharmeceutical companies will be available to the hobbyist. Maybe bio-hacking will be as influential in our kids lives as computer-hacking has been in ours. > And pattern analysis will identify the guilty before they > even think about committing an offense. > Hell, they'll probably be able to ID the bad ones from > samples coerced/stolen at birth and then all future > opportunity and resource allocation will be effectively > decided by the government, inc. Again, current methods don't identify genes just show how much they resemble those of another sample. And they mostly use DNA that is not transcribed anyway. So they tell you nothing about what a person looked like. Of course the stuff coming out of the genome project (which is having the same effect on molecular biology that the cold war had on rocket science, or the discovery of America on navigation, or the railways had on steam technology) will probably change all that Real Soon Now. There are at least 3 or 4 new methiods that are being introduced this year. > Could it be that a single sample of DNA can be used > to produce a large supply of that DNA which could then > be used to fabricate evidence? PCR can multiply the size of a sample many thousandfold in a day. Ken Brown From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Wed Oct 14 05:53:19 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 20:53:19 +0800 Subject: ATTN: BlackNet, sog's keys 4 sale In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199810141212.NAA30027@server.eternity.org> Wew. The Son Of Gomez key I just decrypted and posted... it's not just _any_ Toto key, it's _the_ key. The 0x2541C535 one, the one that signed the message in question. Try it out. [1] the message, [2] the keys. (http://www.well.com/user/declan/toto/toto.pgp.120997.txt) (Subject line in archives was "Encrypted InterNet DEATH THREAT!!!"). Implications? Others had CJs keys? Toto is someone other than CJ? Adam [1] ====================================================================== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- "Contrary to one famous philosopher, you're saying the medium is not the message," Judge Thomas Nelson said, alluding to the media theorist Marshall McLuhan. http://www.nytimes.com/library/cyber/week/120997encrypt-bernstein.html Bullshit! The bits and bytes of email encryption are a clear message that I wish to exercise my right to speak freely, without those who wish to do me harm invading my privacy. The death of strong encryption on the InterNet will be the global death of free speech on the InterNet. Accordingly, I feel it is necessary to make a stand and declare that I stand ready and willing to fight to the death against anyone who takes it upon themselves to try to imprison me behind an ElectroMagnetic Curtain. This includes the Ninth Distric Court judges, if they come to the conclusion that the government that they represent needs to electronically imprison their citizens 'for their own safety.' The problem: Criminals with a simple encryption program can scramble their data beyond even the government's ability to read it. http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/content/zdnn/1208/261695.html Fuck the lame LEA pricks who whine about not being able to stop someone bringing in a planeload of drugs without being able to invade the privacy of every person on the face of the earth. Am I supposed to believe that I have knowledge of when and where major drug shipments are taking place, simply by virtue of hanging out as a musician, yet the LEA's are incapable of finding out the same information by being competent in their profession? Barf City... [I will shortly provide information for any LEA which wishes to prosecute me for my coming 'physical' death threat, on how to hunt me down like the filthy dog that I am.] "Why are you saying that the fact that [encryption] is functional takes it out of the First Amendment context?" Myron Bright, one of the judges, asked the Justice Department attorney, who was still in mid-sentence. He answered that the regulations were not aimed at suppressing speech, but only at the physical capacity of encryption to thwart government intelligence gathering. The Spanish language has the same "physical capacity." So does (:>), (;[), and {;-|). Likewise, BTW, FWIW, FYI, and my own personal favorite, YMMV (You Make Me Vomit? --or-- Your Mileage May Vary?). <-- Ambidextrous encryption. An-cay e-way pect-exay ig-pay atin-lay usts-bay of ildren-chay? Whispering also has the "physical capacity" to "thwart government intelligence gathering." When does the bullshit stop? When do we stop making the use of the Spanish language over the InterNet illegal? When do we stop making whispering, pig-latin, anagrams and acronyms illegal? When do we stop saying that our government is such a piece of crap that it is a danger to let its citizens communicate freely, in private, and share their private thoughts with one another? At one point Fletcher called the government's case "puzzling." http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,17114,00.html Only because her mom taught her that it was unladylike to say "Bullshit!" In arguments Monday, a Justice Department lawyer, Scott McIntosh, said the government's intent was to preserve the ability of intelligence agencies to eavesdrop on foreign governments and citizens. http://www.nytimes.com/library/cyber/week/120997encrypt-bernstein.html Let's see if I have this right... The U.S. government needs to destroy the right to free speech and right to privacy of its own citizens in order to infringe upon the human rights of the governments and citizens of other countries? Countries which already have strong encryption? Countries like Red China, which is currently engaged in encryption research with an American company who got permission to export much more diverse encryption material (after making a huge campaign donation to the Whitehouse) than Professor Bernstein will ever likely share with others? Apologies to Judge Fletcher, but that's not "puzzling." That's the same-old-same-old Bullshit! OFFICIAL 'PHYSICAL' DEATH THREAT!!! The pen is mightier than the sword. Thus, I prefer to wage my 'war to the death' against those who would stomp on my basic human rights *"in the interests of National Security"* with my electronic pen, on the InterNet, using encryption when I have reason to fear persecution by Facist, Nazi motherfuckers. [* ~~ TruthMonger Vernacular Translation ~~ "so that the government can maintain its authority over the citizens by use of force and violation of human rights, rather than going to all of the trouble of acting in a manner that will garner the citizens' respect."] I will continue to express my thoughts through the words I send electronically over the InterNet, both publically and privately. I will fight to the bandwidth death against anyone who wants to deny me my right to express my opinions and access the opinions of those who also wish to express their own opinions and share their true thoughts with their fellow humans. If the ElectronicMagnetic Curtain slams down around me, then I will have no choice but to continue my current fight in MeatSpace. And I am not alone... I will share the same 'DEATH THREAT!!!' with Judges Fletcher, Nelson and Bright that I have shared with the President and a host of Congressional and Senatorial representatives: "You can fuck some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you are going to end up in a body bag or a pine box before you manage to fuck all of the people all of the time." Am *I* going to whack you out? Maybe... I would prefer just dumping some tea in Boston Harbor, if that will get my message across in MeatSpace, but if it won't, then I guess I will have to take stronger action. There are undoubtedly a plethora of LEA's ready and willing to prosecute and imprison me for agreeing with Patrick Henry, who said, "Give me liberty, or give me death." The irony, of course, is that I do not pose a great danger to anyone but myself as long as I continue to have my human rights and my liberty unthreatened. The chances of me actually getting off of my fat butt and going out into the real world to whack out the enemies of freedom are probably pretty small (unless I run out of cigarettes and beer, and wouldn't have to make an extra trip). I fully understand that this does not lessen the potential of any LEA who gets a wild hair up their butt to throw a mountain of taxpayer resources into prosecuting me and imprisoning me for their own professional/political gain. However, if you are performing actions so outrageously against basic human rights and freedoms as to get me off of my lazy ass, then I am the least of your problems, because there undoubtedly are millions of people more functional than myself (who get out of the house and go further than the liquor store) who are less willing than myself to put up with increasingly heavy chains placed around their hands and feet 'in the interests of national security.' Feel free to have the Federales break down my door and imprison me for pointing out the obvious. After all, I fit the profile of a domestic terrorist--I quote the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, and I speak out against increasingly big government. But remember...it's the quiet ones you've got to watch... If you force everyone to 'be quiet', then you've got a world of trouble on your hands. Sincerly, John Gilmore ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ p.s. NOTICE TO LEA AGENTS IN NEED OF A CAREER BOOST! Yes, I'm just a troublemaking asshole, trying to get John Gilmore in trouble. However, if you want to go to the trouble of tracking me down, I will give you some hints, since it seems likely that anyone who has trouble finding a ton of cocaine at an airport might not be competent in CyberSpace, either. You might want to check with the Webmasters at the sites quoted above to see who has accessed their web sites this morning. The anonymous remailer I will be using is an open secret to CypherPunks around the world as a really bad attempt at disguising my true MeatSpace identity. This alone ought to be enough for some aggressive young LEA and/or federal prosecutor to earn themself some brownie-points, since I am a sorry enough son-of-a-bitch that they would not have much trouble convicting me in front of a jury of 'their' peers, assuming that they can make certain that I am not tried by a jury of my own peers. Bonus Points: I can also be tied into Jim Bell's Worldwide Conspiracy to assassinate government authorities, through my implementation of an Assassination Bot. (I am willing to 'rat out' Jim for two bottles of Scotch. If he is willing to rat _me_ out for less, then I guess it's just my hard luck, eh? <--that's another hint!) p.p.s. You can also charge me with use of 'conventional' encryption in the commission of a crime. Must be your lucky fucking day, eh? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNI24Hs5WpAclQcU1AQFaggP8CPTVy8EAY3JbIG94frc3C70MW0hUznmp fRgBrq7m5tLGjX7fh3/s4fpTnQi+xUvRUroFETlR6KhM3srSy456wovpFlcLp7uc xk31cRPEroFhO9NRVBUjzToCj78iDvdGm9QXUwLctbbohpdId/KKLTAUM6//4mCB i/9oezfegWc= =4/6E -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- [2] ====================================================================== -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQCNAzRiaHcAAAEEAPdnnUJRJoktl6tMtRcrV330FvNPok4FvTMOT82V0lIRA7ZQ jiAcv4Egm8nx6M6dc75eWIIPo4gZOWf5xjZzN8XjD2ytwMNqQnis0RMN9OI8ysk2 I7frJO0FNLikupHf+tUMhDc52qQbOcsVC53GZ8FdwY1zzaX7Dc5WpAclQcU1AAUR tB9zb24gb2YgZ29tZXogPEluZm9XYXJAZGV2Lm51bGw+iQCVAwUQNGJph85WpAcl QcU1AQFXPQQA8adaDwM3DnttrJPTjUd9I/fQ6q73Zvp6oLPP3MSon4uEbIVJryPB wZYfcjXb6Co84XFpaL8shtgP0cHYRZDfQraCwsaJWOm1Lh+ZhZyqHh2oF4QrpOhm A5YzxYI7SX3GIu/X1XO5vcb+BnJqbl2+RUaHnGqcwwrwxjSc1stGwJ4= =Yx4A -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- -----BEGIN PGP SECRET KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 lQHgAzRiaHcAAAEEAPdnnUJRJoktl6tMtRcrV330FvNPok4FvTMOT82V0lIRA7ZQ jiAcv4Egm8nx6M6dc75eWIIPo4gZOWf5xjZzN8XjD2ytwMNqQnis0RMN9OI8ysk2 I7frJO0FNLikupHf+tUMhDc52qQbOcsVC53GZ8FdwY1zzaX7Dc5WpAclQcU1AAUR AUzSerlWWdq7A/+EGrDs3oHlVDzmPEouO2m1gWLN6erKPgd5tiB7eWECJoiRC9AU Va2LJLxltmNKIq9znAMeeCpI3nirprYgHMvyASVPrXIo4WXB0NGSyTXSGFbmbfBA ZhIzgLYfSV7KC9e340B4wqQv/hSGyc9p7/umXgdccspoXM4fIwddYNt0+QIA+XS0 WUPNqr4lyW47GVAhFIuoYsTLi+ZTRRQbS2LAyV2dhGSFVo1Q1HrB/S58dQFTaN85 lRytpZKX2dc+9VC3JgIATZegUu3m2FmRMf7kr0IsRV94q0lxQm4egMPdru6CQGZl G7K9uGX/d/Rbtd0iP7aZ1iNDpgSakmNl5o3aYupCdQIAir0t68n1g91DzWwOMJKF 7E9fmQ21a7a2rDGk+5SV9nw3PxGwx/64CPHriDQz/ItYLPZKpHVLysuFGavYUFX/ 26JZtB9zb24gb2YgZ29tZXogPEluZm9XYXJAZGV2Lm51bGw+ =yYBi -----END PGP SECRET KEY BLOCK----- From 11471..201 at compusub.com Wed Oct 14 21:06:17 1998 From: 11471..201 at compusub.com (11471..201 at compusub.com) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:06:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Thank you for your inquiry Message-ID: <199810150406.VAA26023@toad.com> This is your free issue of the Global Media and Corporate Relations newsletter. In order to continue to receive the GMCR News you must reserve your place in our news server by one of the methods below. If this newsletter has reached your mailbox in error, do nothing and you will receive no further contact. Visit http://www.corporaterelations.com and sign in to reserve your place in our news server. or Email to gmcr-list at corporaterelations.com ; include the words 'join gmcr-news' in the body of the message. GLOBAL MEDIA AND CORPORATE RELATIONS NEWS GMCR is dedicated to bringing you the most timely critical investment information about new issues, IPO's, small cap stocks and special opportunities that simply cannot be found elsewhere. All of the investment opportunities presented here are thoroughly screened by our experienced team of investment professionals. Each of our client companies has undergone a stringent due diligence process to insure that the investment potential is a bona fide GMCR opportunity. One Asian Tiger Roars as the Others Roll Over and Play Dead For the first half of 1998, U.S. electronics exports to Asia dropped 12% in the face of various economic crises and currency devaluations in the Pacific Rim that saw country economies falling like dominos. The culprits: Indonesian imports down 64%, Korean down 37%, Thai down 26%, and Japanese imports down 14%. So how did the U.S. semiconductor manufacturers fair overall? Total semiconductor sales worldwide were only down .38% because Eastern Europe, Mexico, Canada and China increased their purchases at the expense of their Asian counterparts. China, one of the Asian Tigers, escaped the crisis conditions unscathed, actually increasing their imports of U.S. semiconductor products by 50% during the first half of this year according to industry sources. China's tight control over its currency allowed it to escape the problems that slashed fifty cents on the dollar out of the other Asian Tiger currencies. While the other countries worried about currency devaluations and layoffs in industry, China quietly ramped up production in their three "golden" markets: telecommunication, consumer electronics and home appliances grabbing market share along the way. FEATURED COMPANY Our feature company this month is Micronics International, Inc (OTC:BB MCIK). Micronics International (MCIK) has been undervalued with the recent Asian crisis driving stocks lower. Timing is right for Micronics International (MCIK) to rocket upward propelled by a burgeoning Chinese semiconductor market. Their current mission is to take advantage of the large Chinese government incentives to moev electronic manufacturing from the coast to the interior of the country. Micronics is locating their new offices in the heart of these new centers of industry. The company will be perfectly positioned for a buy-out or merger with a larger U.S. semiconductor distributor looking for an established marketing channel into China, soon to be the worlds' biggest market for semiconductor products. Micronics (MCIK) is the Second Largest U.S. Distributor of semiconductors into the Chinese telecommunications, consumer electronics and home appliance manufacturing sectors. The company has established both close relationships with the government and permanent offices within their borders. The Chinese must import 94% of integrated circuit needs and their buying has INCREASED 50% during the Asian Crisis! Micronics (MCIK) is rocketing upward because: * The 1998 Chinese import market for chips? Over six billion units. * First half of 1998 showed a 50% increase in U.S. semiconductor imports into China, 10% higher than was predicted by industry insiders. * Industry forecasts for semiconductor sales: $120 billion 2005, $550 billion 2010, World's largest market by 2015. * A $50 billion plus semiconductor market in China is projected to grow at a 40% rate the next seven years! * The semiconductor market has grown steadily, 25% per year, for the last ten years in lockstep with increased U.S. imports into China! * Over 60 years of combined semiconductor marketing experience among the Micronics officers. * Micronics has excellent government and local factory contacts in China through a professional sales force. * The low cost provider to the market through strategic purchases of key stocks. * Long term relationships with U.S. proprietary chip manufacturers and smaller U.S. distributors focusing on telecommunications, computers and energy conservation, Micronics' key markets. * The U.S. semiconductor companies have a solid 10% of the China market * Very few American distributors are willing and able to crack the China distribution market. The only competitor of note is Arrow Electronics who does approximately $120 million in sales a year in China. * Many U.S. companies want in China, Micronics is positioned as a possible acquisition or marketing channel. From brownrk1 at texaco.com Wed Oct 14 06:09:44 1998 From: brownrk1 at texaco.com (Brown, R Ken) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:09:44 +0800 Subject: Two Jims, Werner and Matt redefine socialism for their own en ds Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F84D4@MSX11002> > Matthew James Gering[SMTP:mgering at ecosystems.net] replied to a long > rant, as by "Martinus Luther": > >> something like Belloc and Chesterton's "distributivism". > Distribute what and created by whom? Need I point out the > obvious fallacy that wealth is a static sum. It is not, wealth > must be *created* before it exists to plunder and share. Every libertarian or cypherpunk ought to have read "The Servile State" by Hilaire Belloc. It is long polemic against socialism (or what Belloc thought was Socialism), the welfare state & so on. Your ranter obviously hads read the book, and in that context what is being distributed is *land*, as private property to be lived on, farmed and passed on to children. > Abstract wealth and divorce it from the creator and you > eliminate the motive to create. You can only live from plundered > wealth so long before you slip into oblivion (see the Soviet Union). I think Belloc would agree with you 100%. See http://www.cs.wesleyan.edu/HTML/Grad_links/mdemarco/gkc/distrib/ for links to pages on Distributivism. Distributivism is usually regarded as a right-wing, conservative political philosophy. Chesterton and Belloc didn't invent it but they popularised it. It derived partly from a distaste for the State, industry, trade unions and the modern world in general; partly from an admiration of traditional rural life; partly from the English Christian Socialism of the 19th century & partly from the Biblical idea of the Jubilee, when debts were cancelled and the land redivided amongst the families of the tribe. It is based on the idea that only free men who own their own land and house really have a stake in society or a chance at a good life. So in an ideal world ownership of property would be distributed as widely as possible (hence the name). Distributivists, always a small an uninfluential group, are divided as to how this desirable state of affairs can be brought about. Some want to achieve it gradually, through education and legislation and an increasing influence of the Roman Catholic church. These ones, following in the footsteps of Belloc (an ultra-nationalist, an anti-semite & in his old age a grumpy bigot), drifted farther and farther to the right, often becoming little different from Fascists. Recently they have become associated with the "Third Way" (i.e neither Socialism not Capitalism) a confused mish-mash of political positions that probably started as a self-justification by some milder Fascists but is now associated with Tony Blair and the British "New Labour" government. Some other Distributivists thought that the people should rise up and occupy the land, taking it from its current owners, whether the rich or the state. This philosophy is pretty indistinguishable from the English far-left Socialism of people like William Morris, drawing inspiration from agrarian revolts throughout history from the Peasant's Revolt to Gerard Winstanley and the Diggers. It isn't very different - apart from its explicitly Christian roots - from the Syndicalism of Joe Hill and the wobblies, or the position of some modern-day Left Anarchists such as the ones associated with the Solidarity Federation. They often say the same things, using different jargon. (The Distributivists looked backward to the middle ages & mainly talked about land, agriculture and small crafts. When they paid any attention to industry, other than to say they didn't like it, they made vague handwavings about "guilds", i.e. local trade-based co-operatives, owning factories. The Syndicalists looked forward to the 20th century, and were mainly interested in industry. When they bothered to talk about agriculture they wanted land farmed in small plots each by an owner occupier - "3 acres and a cow" again - except that in America where everything has to be bigger they made it "30 acres and a cow") To be honest it isn't that different from the position of a lot of Old Labour lefties like me - except we aren't revolutionaries either which leaves us in a bit of a fix... Chesterton was never a Socialist and probably never a revolutionary but he was often a Liberal (in the English sense) and was at least on speaking terms with Socialists and Anarchists (of whose politics he disapproved greatly) If you haven't read "The Servile State" you should. In fact if you haven't read Belloc you should. Not a great writer, not always even a good one, but very, very interesting. Of course I'm biased. In the early years of this century Belloc and Chesterton (& many other writers such as Henry James, Rudyard Kipling, S. Fowler Wright (you really have to be weird to remember him), E.C. Benson and A.A. Milne (the Hundred Acre Wood is just 20 miles from where I was born)) were almost fanatical admirers of my own home county of Sussex in England :-) And they wrote some really OTT poetry to show how good it all was. Ken Brown (about as off-topic as you can get on a Tuesday). The South Country When I am living in the Midlands That are sodden and unkind, I light my lamp in the evening: My work is left behind; And the great hills of the South Country Come back into my mind. The great hills of the South Country They stand along the sea; And it's there walking in the high woods That I could wish to be, And the men that were boys when I was a boy Walking along with me. The men that live in North England I saw them for a day: Their hearts are set upon the waste fells, Their skies are fast and grey; From their castle-walls a man may see The mountains far away. The men that live in West England They see the Severn strong, A-rolling on rough water brown Light aspen leaves along. They have the secret of the Rocks, And the oldest kind of song. But the men that live in the South Country Are the kindest and most wise, They get their laughter from the loud surf, And the faith in their happy eyes Comes surely from our Sister the Spring When over the sea she flies; The violets suddenly bloom at her feet, She blesses us with surprise. I never get between the pines But I smell the Sussex air; Nor I never come on a belt of sand But my home is there. And along the sky the line of the Downs So noble and so bare. A lost thing could I never find, Nor a broken thing mend: And I fear I shall be all alone When I get towards the end. Who will there be to comfort me Or who will be my friend? I will gather and carefully make my friends Of the men of the Sussex Weald; They watch the stars from silent folds, They stiffly plough the field. By them and the God of the South Country My poor soul shall be healed. If I ever become a rich man, Or if ever I grow to be old, I will build a house with deep thatch To shelter me from the cold, And there shall the Sussex songs be sung And the story of Sussex told. I will hold my house in the high wood Within a walk of the sea, And the men that were boys when I was a boy Shall sit and drink with me. Matilda Matilda told such Dreadful Lies, It made one Gasp and Stretch one's Eyes; Her Aunt, who, from her Earliest Youth, Had kept a Strict Regard for Truth, Attempted to Believe Matilda: The effort very nearly killed her, And would have done so, had not She Discovered this Infirmity. For once , towards the Close of Day, Matilda, growing tired of play And finding she was left alone, Went tiptoe to the Telephone, And summoned the Immediate Aid Of London's Noble Fire-Brigade. Within an hour the Gallant Band Were pouring in on every hand, >From Putney,Hackney Downs, and Bow With Courage high and Hearts a-glow They galloped, roaring through the Town, `Matilda's House is Burning Down!' Inspired by British Cheers and Loud Proceeding from the Frenzied Crowd, They ran their ladders through a score Of windows on the Ball Room Floor; And took Peculiar Pains to Souse The Pictures up and down the House, Until Matilda's Aunt succeeded In showing them they were not needed; And even then she had to pay To get the Men to go away! It happened that a few Weeks later Her Aunt was off to the Theatre To see that Interesting Play The Second Mrs Tanqueray. She had refused to take her Niece To hear this Entertaining Piece: A Deprivation Just and Wise To Punish her for Telling Lies. That Night a Fire did break out - You should have heard Matilda Shout! You should have heard her Scream and Bawl, And throw the window up and call To People passing in the Street - (The rapidly increasing Heat Encouraging her to obtain Their confidence) - but all in vain! For every time She shouted `Fire!' They only answered `Little Liar'! And therefore when her Aunt returned, Matilda, and the House, were Burned. From nobody at replay.com Wed Oct 14 06:22:42 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:22:42 +0800 Subject: anti-spam lesson Re: Earn your worth not mlm!!! 330-258-9131 Message-ID: <199810141250.OAA17845@replay.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- this guy knows this is a mailing list by the way he forged the from header. he knew the administrator address for the list. Quick anti-spam note by looking at the received header all the way on the bottom of all of them we see that the originating host was: a modem slip account from detroit michigan on the at&t service. that is about the best we can do as far as establishing this persons identity, but a copy of the message including the headers forwarded to abuse or postmaster @att.net of the message will have the problem resolved in no time. If everyone takes 2 min to do this it will definiately get the account removed. I guess I just do this for revenge though. It is fun getting all of the cancellation notices in your e-mail.' Received: from www.video-collage.com [206.15.171.132] by mx05 via mtad (2.6) with ESMTP id mx05-cJNB5S0058; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 01:56:46 GMT Received: (from ichudov at localhost) by www.video-collage.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA07486 for cypherpunks-outgoing; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 21:49:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sirius.infonex.com (sirius.infonex.com [209.75.197.2]) by www.video-collage.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA07474 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 21:49:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from cpunks at localhost) by sirius.infonex.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA17622; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 18:53:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyberpass.net (cyberpass.net [209.75.197.3]) by sirius.infonex.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA17594 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 18:53:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from toad.com (toad.com [140.174.2.1]) by cyberpass.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA15571 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 18:54:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom at localhost) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA13884 for cypherpunks-unedited-outgoing; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 18:41:58 -0700 (PDT) From: owner-cypherpunks at toad.com Received: from 12.67.146.158 (158.detroit-03.mi.dial-access.att.net [12.67.146.158]) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA13879 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 18:41:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 18:41:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199810140141.SAA13879 at toad.com> To: cypherpunks at toad.com Subject: Earn your worth not mlm!!! 330-258-9131 Sender: owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: cypherpunks at algebra.com X-List-Admin: ichudov at algebra.com X-Loop: cypherpunks at algebra.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 5.5.3ckt http://netnet.net/~merlin/knights Comment: KeyID: 0xF4D1901B Comment: Fingerprint: DB49 2BFA 856F 0B7E CB78 9C3E 0167 279D iQEVAwUBNiSaAqKPqmf00ZAbAQHHZAf/XYUh5eybbUnOGTW0Bc10sF+rdvs5sJ/h CI2WCoHY6l/+8PxVHlphFqcXeXoE0i3o84eb75THNI8+fTdXmZsffK0jJOjoO+Xa TamPL5nMsCJHOTSFHUGIsvlvPLQvxWTkkRepfPcrQnA0MVCGxlHteXlRmh2J496/ OWEqfRp+iBgpptVdgG18u+IRG8KBWz/e3RQk5LjzhO0szz5x47S0wsTru4HHwLhh ZUsUX7CxZ8vwK6nty0RgYslk56wyAXCwoHU3/S6C+rHabzJptT/mFZUpRHmsVu3L aWOKpRY/vcXH6NUAQU1dDW4wh/DU3KXWwISJfItjl8u37HiEofmq0A== =b4+H -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Wed Oct 14 06:47:13 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:47:13 +0800 Subject: ATTN: BlackNet, sog's keys 4 sale In-Reply-To: <199810141153.MAA29777@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: <199810141304.OAA30401@server.eternity.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- I realised that the private key for son of gomez is passworded, but it turns out that the password is one of the set John Young forwarded to the list from an anonymous source a few weeks back: sog709cejCJP yeah :-) AdamMonger -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.4, an Emacs/PGP interface iQCVAwUBNiShUc5WpAclQcU1AQG/eQP/Q46OesAxpXbrrM2njCdcoFLYUq6Qh0oQ giOvubEpoF5zZ6k1od3Nv8UIrUo2AWmdqqDp0bI6F07zsgSBAKEFB2QOKQcbkTsX TNFnVj17v81jG6ttLpHDofDji9rtajbZ2stalVcZ98gGBuJ64zgO2AbTY3hMljJ1 fJMYI176KlQ= =psAV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nobody at replay.com Wed Oct 14 06:52:35 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:52:35 +0800 Subject: son (Gomez is coming!) Message-ID: <199810141319.PAA20572@replay.com> Son of Mother Of All Chapters -- SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!! _________________________________________________________ July, 1948: The moment has come when the costumes, the grease paint, the falsely colored scenery, the technicolored spotlights and all the other artifices of makeYDup should be put aside and, in the interest of truth, the solid facts about the play and the players revealed to the people. ~ The Roosevelt Myth, Preface to the Popsvox PublishingR edition Dec. 7, 1941 The Lake of Life has started to turn over. The bottom is rising to the top, the top is descending to the bottom, and everything is becoming the opposite of what it seems to be. ~ Vice-Admiral B. D'Shauneaux, USN ~~~ ~~~ Version 1.7, Rev B: Saturday morning, March 4, 1933...the conquering Democrats poured into the city... Only a week before an assassin's bullet had barely missed Roosevelt. It struck Anton Cermak, the Bohemian mayor and boss of Chicago, who with Al Smith, had opposed Roosevelt's nomination...and died a few days later. Version 2.7, Rev. 3: On February 1, 1933, in Miami, Florida Giuseppe Zangara fired five shots a President-elect Franklin D. Roosevelt, who was making an impromptu speech while sitting in an open car that had stopped momentarily. Although none of the shots hit President Roosevelt, Zangara mortally wounded Anton Cermak, the Mayor of Chicago, and hit four other people, including a Secret Service agent. Version 3.9, Rev. 2-B: On February 15, 1933, Zangara attended a speech given by Roosevelt at Bayfront Park in Miami, Florida. When Roosevelt had finished his talk and was preparing to leave, Zangara pulled out a pistol and opened fire. Zangara wounded five people who had been near the president-elect, two of them seriously. Most critically injured was Chicago Mayor Anton Cermak, who was struck by the bullet in the chest which then lodged in his spine. Version 4.9, Rev. 8C: The parade car moved slowly down the street as President-elect Roosevelt and Mayor Cermak smiled and waved. The car stopped and President-elect Roosevelt gave a speech while sitting on the back of the car. A man named Guiseppe Zangara pushed through the crowd. He fired five shots at the President-elect. The bullets hit four people and Mayor Cermak. Version 15.6, Rev. 7: On March 6, Mayor Cermak died from complications stemming from the shooting. The same day Zangara was indicted by a grand jury and charged with first degree murder in the death of Cermak. His trial began on March 9 and ended on March 11 with a guilty verdict and a death sentence. The prisoner was transported to the Florida State Prison at Raiford, where he was executed on March 20, 1933. Version 18.9, Rev. 5D: Mayor Anton J. Cermak died three weeks later, on March 8, 1933. His body was taken back to Chicago and buried in the Bohemian National Cemetery. Guiseppe Zangara was executed in the electric chair on March 21, 1933. That was only 13 days after Mayor Cermak died. Version 32.9, Rev. 12: Consider the case of Guiseppe Zangara, who was executed in 1933 for the attempted assassination of President-elect Franklin D. Roosevelt in which Chicago Mayor Anton J. Cermak was fatally shot. Zangara pleaded guilty in state court on March 10, was sentenced to death, and was executed on March 20 -- an interval of 10 days! Version 82, Rev. 5Q: After Roosevelt had delivered a speech in Florida on February 14, 1938, Guiseppe Zangara, an unemployed bricklayer, fired six shots from a handgun at Roosevelt from twelve yards away. The president-elect, who was sitting in an open car, was uninjured but five other people were shot, including Chicago mayor Anton Cernak, who was killed. Version 95, Rev. 8: On February 15, 1933, Guiseppe Zangara rose early... From xasper8d at lobo.net Wed Oct 14 07:39:43 1998 From: xasper8d at lobo.net (X) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 22:39:43 +0800 Subject: DNA In-Reply-To: <8025669D.002F7404.00@seunt002e.ssa.co.uk> Message-ID: <000401bdf77a$fe720d00$932580d0@xasper8d> DNA of identical siblings is identical? I guess that makes sense, since we're really split after conception... so explain why my brother has smooth hands and fingers with almost no prints (lucky bastard!) and mine look like mother teresa's face... (probably more now than before, eh?) X ~> -----Original Message----- ~> From: owner-cypherpunks at minder.net ~> [mailto:owner-cypherpunks at minder.net]On Behalf Of ~> Richard.Bragg at ssa.co.uk ~> Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 1998 2:44 AM ~> To: mmotyka at lsil.com ~> Cc: cypherpunks at toad.com ~> Subject: RE: DNA ~> ~> ~> DNA testing can never prove anything. It can rule out someone completely ~> and statistically make it ~> very unlikely to be anyone else. But what about identical ~> sib's. They all ~> have exactly the same DNA! ~> ~> There are cases of such children where one becomes a pillar of ~> society and ~> the other less so. ~> ~> A DNA database would allow loads of stuff to be done. How about ~> a designed ~> disease or toxin that ~> only affects certain gene carriers. This could be added to the ~> food chain ~> at any time you wanted ~> to incapacitate a particular person or group of people without ~> comprimising ~> any one else. ~> ~> Fun hmmm!!! ~> ~> ~> From rah at shipwright.com Wed Oct 14 07:54:29 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 22:54:29 +0800 Subject: IP: THE BATTLE FOR AMERICA'S SOUL Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Delivered-To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 00:27:56 -0400 (EDT) From: To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Subject: IP: THE BATTLE FOR AMERICA'S SOUL MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Precedence: list Reply-To: *****NOTE****** The following article is intended for those who have attention spans and the abilitiy to focus and reason beyond 30 second sound-bites. If you are only capable of reading 30 lines of text of disjointed sloganisms and cliches, I would recommend you simply hit the delete key now and thanks for your time. For those who choose to actually fully read and think about the article below, I believe you'll find the arguments are well developed, forceful, compelling and exquisitly reasoned. I found the arguments presented in the article below as relevent and thought provoking as Fredric Bastiat's The Law, which is available at; http://www.jim.com/jamesd/bastiat.htm Bastiat's The Law was penned almost one hundred and fifty years before the article below.- Harley ************** Source: http://www.founding.org/tbfasshortversion.html THE BATTLE FOR AMERICAS SOUL By Balint Vazsonyi For thirty years now, the Liberal-Conservative debate has been raging in our country. Some of the participants bring to mind a passage from Dostoyevskys Crime and Punishment. Raskolnikov, while delirious in the Siberian prison hospital, has a recurring dream. In it, the whole world had been condemned to a terrible and strange plague. Some new sorts of microbes began to afflict people. "Men attacked by them," he writes, "became at once mad and furious. But never had men considered themselves so intellectual and so completely in possession of the truth as these sufferers, never had they considered their decisions, their scientific conclusions, their moral convictions so infallible..." One hundred-and-thirty years after those lines were written, it is disquieting to see just such "sufferers" among us today. Are we participants in a debate or are we fighting a virus? The following is an attempt to find some answers to sort out the sides, their origins, their purpose. THE QUESTION THAT MATTERS Scholars on both sides suggest that, during the 1960s, the original principles on which America was founded came to be interpreted in entirely new ways. It was this new understanding, so the suggestion goes, which led to fundamental changes in our thinking, our language, our institutions. Among other things, this altered reading also accounts for the radical shift in the meaning of the term, "Liberal." Is the national debate indeed a dialogue between two competing interpretations of what we shall call the American Construct? That, without a doubt, is the question that matters. If it is, then the word "debate" is entirely appropriate. If it is, then neither side can lay claim to the 'Truth.' If it is, then the more power to the winners may they alternate frequently, as behooves a democracy. Before we can decide, we need to remind ourselves of our spiritual and philosophical roots. We use the term American Construct here to represent the compendium of ideas and principles which issued from Franklins Poor Richard, Jeffersons Declaration of Independence, the U.S. Constitution, The Federalist Papers of Hamilton and Madison, all the way to the Bill of Rights. In order to qualify as indigenous, ideas and practices ought to be traceable to, or at least compatible with, the American Construct. The following key areas suggest some early answers. * The Constitution does not provide for Group Rights. Yet, a steadily growing number of groups is being granted an increasing number of rights. * Defense, for which the Constitution does provide, has been surrounded by an atmosphere of derision and hostility; the effectiveness of our armed forces is being diminished through inappropriate use. * Of the three branches of government, Congress is entrusted with the powers to legislate. Neither the Executive nor the Judiciary should presume such powers, yet both have done so with increasing frequency. * The constitutional guarantee for the freedom of speech becomes moot if the vocabulary is controlled by codes, regulations and punitive practices. * The protection of private property is no longer guaranteed if the Executive Branch can confiscate it under the pretext of arbitrary regulation. * Education used to be based on the best available information, the consensus of generations, and rewards designed to extract the best effort from all participants. Currently, information is being replaced by propaganda, consensus by the whim and din of activist groups, best effort by primitive egalitarianism. * Americans were supposed to be judged based on what they could do. Their prospects are now contingent on what (not even who) they are. * Morality and decency in human relations which once governed our society are being displaced by doctrines which do not, even, recognize the existence of values; the spirit of voluntarism is being choked by coercion. Accordingly, the argument that we are conducting a discourse within the American Construct cannot be sustained. That being the case, the alternative must be considered. If the debate has not been generated from within, it must be one between our own preexisting principles and ideas which are foreign in origin. Foreign ideas may be benign or hostile. Given the foregoing, as well as the ferocity of the assault over the past three decades, there is every reason to assume that they are the latter. If so, the very existence of our country, as we know it, is at stake. It is therefore of the utmost urgency to seek detailed answers to the question that matters. To begin with, new ideas are exceedingly rare. We may safely assume that most ideas, however differently they might be packaged, have been around for some time. The doctrines currently waging their battle inside America are likely to be old acquaintances, not brainstorms of the 1960s. There is some advantage to be derived: exploring the history and curriculum of old ideas provides clues about the path they are likely to follow again and again. As we encounter the alarming similarities between the so-called Liberal agenda and the practices of past regimes, there may be emotional barriers to overcome. How could decent, ordinary Americans take their cue from precedents they reject and abhor on a conscious level? Yet the facts speak for themselves. BOLSHEVISM FASCISM The conventional view, notwithstanding the Hitler-Stalin pact of 1939, is that Communism and Nazism were opposites one on the extreme left, the other on the extreme right. At the time of the Spanish Civil War of 1936, Americans fell victim to the propaganda that Communists and Fascists ("Nazi" and "Fascist" will be discussed below) were enemies. In addition, the countless distinguished personalities who joined the North American Committee to Aid Spanish Democracy created the illusion that Communists were 'on the side of righteousness.' Unbeknownst to them, the Communist Party ran the entire organization. Rather than enemies, Nazism and Communism were the ultimate competitors. Each wanted to conquer and rule both over the physical world, and over the minds of people. The methods which were developed and implemented for the control of behavior took many forms, not all of them obvious or even unpleasant when dispensed in small doses. Yet they strike at the heart of human relations; they also severe the link between cause and effect, so essential in developing an individual's viability. First, we need to remind ourselves of key words which, in common usage, have taken on different connotations: Fascism, Nazism, Communism. Webster defines Fascism and Nazism in almost identical terms: "a centralized autocratic severely national regime;" "regimentation of industry, commerce and finance;" "rigid censorship, forcible suppression of opposition." The definition of Communism begins with "common ownership of assets." The subheading Bolshevism, however, resembles the wording applied to Fascism and Nazism. Webster comes remarkably close, but no fully-satisfactory definitions exist. In truth, they are simply so many variants of Socialism, and Marx himself was already at pains while writing the Communist Manifesto in 1848 to sort out the different kinds of Socialism. Initially, there appears to be a distinction between "National Socialism" (the German and Italian varieties) and "International Socialism" (the Russian Model), based on the difference in agendas as stated by the parties themselves. Reality, however, gives rhetoric the lie. Albeit without the Nuremberg Laws or prescribed physical characteristics, "The Soviet Man" was made the object of enforced worship just the same as was the Aryan hero - nothing international about that. Not even in the approach to the fundamental Marxian issue of ownership can we observe a substantial difference: The Program of the National Socialist German Workers' Party (the full name of the Nazi party) demands "the nationalization of all business enterprises that have been organized into corporations." A realistic examination of these seemingly opposite systems reveals them as mirror images, aspiring to a similar objective, applying identical methods, achieving comparable subjugation of people under their control, and pursuing the same enemies. Objective. The agenda underlying all operations calls for unlimited discretionary powers to be concentrated in the hands of a small, self-perpetuating group in which membership is by invitation only. Members of the group typically fall into two categories. One of these claims to know what is best for all people; the other simply wants unchecked power. The synergy is perfect: Ideologues need terrorists to retain physical control; terrorists need ideologues to supply intermittent explanations for the rule they maintain. It is only natural that the objectives include an effort to expand the number of those over whom power is exerted. Given the ultimate objective of concentrating all power in the hands of a single group, competing formations calling themselves "Fascist," "Nazi," "Communist," "Bolshevik," or "Maoist" must fight it out until only one of them remains operative, hence the insistence on being 'different.' Methods. (The reader is asked to compare these to present-day practices.) As well as control of the military and the police, successful exercise of power requires control of key institutions to replace or supplement brute force. The checklist includes news sources especially of the visual variety education, the judiciary, labor organizations, arts and entertainment, as well as a parental relationship between government and the governed. Required, also, is the attribution of infallibility at the top. A human replaces the object of religious worship, just as holiday celebrations of a political nature replace religious ones. Replacement of another kind is the renaming of streets, towns, institutions. The purpose is to do away with reminders of the past thus discontinuing history and to provide constant reminders of the present. The practice of discontinuing history is indispensable. Successive generations must be devoid of traditions and prevented from comparing past and present. It also 'justifies' revision of the entire academic curriculum, so that no subject would accidentally provide accurate information about history. While adults need the threat of punishment in order to 'forget' what they had learned, information can simply be withheld from young people and/or manipulated before it reaches them. Youth organizations were created with compulsory membership - except when exclusion was chosen as an instrument of humiliation. Hitler Youth, Komsomol, Pioneers put people in uniform at a young age, ensured their early allegiance to The Leader, and placed them under the command of a political appointee whose prerogative superseded that of both the parental home and the school. Finally, learned faculties were placed under the control of political operatives with little or no education. The corruption of education was matched by the corruption of the legal system. This required judges who would subordinate both their natural and learned sense of justice to what was declared to be "the higher interest of the community." For an example we quote marching orders issued by Hans Frank, President of the Academy of German Law and of the National Bar Association in the Third Reich: "The basis for interpreting all legal sources is the National Socialist Philosophy, especially as expressed in the party program..." Thus was born the concept of the political activist judge who wore the robe as no less a uniform than the black shirt or the red shirt. Controlling the behavior of the adult population required the most sophisticated approach, if outright terror was to be relaxed to any extent. Although Lenin and Stalin pointed the way and Mao Tse-Tung achieved the ultimate by making one billion people wear the same clothes, it was the Germans ever the theorists who supplied the terminology for the first tool. They called it "Gleichschaltung," which verbatim means "switching to being the same." The program called for total alignment with the goals of Nazi policies and placed everyone on the same level, creating the ultimate degree of conformity. Gleichschaltung operated at once on structural and cultural levels. Structurally, the first victim was federalism: Within days of Hitler's accession, the states had to cede authority to the central government. Next, the leadership and membership of every kind of organization had to become politically and racially correct. While a variety of agencies had the task of implementing the structural changes, as early as March 1933 a separate Cabinet Department was created for Josef Goebbels to oversee every aspect of the cultural scene, making certain that it was politically correct. Specific terms aside, the reality of all these regimes is the great flattening of society which is in full progress from day one. It is astonishing and frightening how little time it took both in Russia and in Germany to accomplish this task. Indeed, it should be noted that demolishing what centuries had built does not require even a single generation. The other tool had to do with groups. While it may appear contradictory to identify groups in a society having just experienced Gleichschaltung, contradictions do not represent obstacles in a totalitarian structure. Placing the emphasis on groups was as necessary as the leveling had been: It facilitated positive and negative imaging. This constant dichotomy of egalitarianism and group hatred provided a manipulative tool as simple as it was ingenious. Hitler used race and nationality, Lenin and Stalin mostly class the outcome was the same. Subjugation. (Please continue the comparison with current tendencies.) It is commonly known that the Gestapo was a state within the State, as was the Cheka/GPU/NKVD/KGB establishment. Their responsibility was not merely control but the maintenance of a permanent state of fear. Yet internal security organs, however large, could not by themselves see to that. Therefore, in one sense or another everyone was recruited to be an agent of fear. In Nazi Germany, as in Soviet Russia, children were encouraged to inform on their parents, neighbors on each other. Very soon it became a matter of reporting someone before someone reported you. It was possible to be reported for virtually anything, so that people grew fearful of doing or saying everyday, ordinary things. One could never be safe from somebody 'putting a spin' on the most innocent act or remark. Enemies. Whereas democracies associate enemies with physical attack or the threat thereof, both Nazism and Communism required at all times the existence of enemies, internal and external. The array of internal enemies would suggest a certain difference: Jews for the Nazis, "Class Enemies" for the Bolsheviks. However, the Russians had anti-Jewish pogroms long before Hitler and, later, significant numbers of Jews were exiled or killed as "exploiters." The aristocracy was looked upon just as much an enemy by the Nazis who were, after all, Socialists. The Church was regarded as an enemy by both, partly because it advocated morality, and because it, too, required allegiance and obedience and attitude reserved exclusively for The Party. "National Socialist and Christian concepts are irreconcilable," so Martin Bormann begins the Third Reich's definitive statement on the subject. Yet, it is in the realm of Nazism's and Bolshevism's external enemies that examination proves the most revealing. Experience confirms that the primary enemy in the eyes of Nazis and Communists alike was the English-speaking world, in all its manifestations. In my native Hungary, where Soviet occupation followed Nazi occupation, typically the same henchmen jailed the same persons for the same offense: Listening to an English-language broadcast whether in 1944 or in 1952. The reasons are obvious. To all those who would take over the world, Great Britain and the United States have been the main impediment. Philip II of Spain and Napoleon had known that already; Hitler and Stalin had to learn it anew. Neither German technological genius nor Soviet numerical advantage was sufficient to carry the day against Anglo-American resolve, because it was backed by principles, attitudes and traditions which had brought forth stable, productive, peacefully-evolving societies. And since language is the carrier of ideas, English words were perceived to be as menacing as Spitfire interceptors or nuclear submarines. The power of seminally English phrases like "My home is my castle" or "Innocent until proven guilty" is awesome. The strenuous efforts by Liberals to diminish the presence of English in contemporary America furnish additional proof. WHAT'S 'RIGHT' WHAT'S 'POSSIBLE' The epoch-making contributions of Germans from Luther to Goethe, from Bach to Wagner, from Gutenberg to Zeiss reveal a great similarity across the centuries, across the various fields of endeavor. From Luther's 'nailing his 95 Theses to the door' through Bach's The Art of the Fugue and Goethe's Faust to Wagner's Gesamtkunstwerk, the observer beholds the German tendency and capacity for seeking and creating the absolute, the all-encompassing, the ultimate. When applied to philosophy, this same tendency gave birth to Kant who declared his chief work free from error. He was followed by Hegel, who more or less declared the end of history. By this juncture, German philosophy had established its lineage all the way back to Plato, and regarded itself sole heir to the search for what is right. From that point onward, a seemingly endless succession of German thinkers, in a mostly descending sequence of brilliance and/or morality, began to convert philosophy into Social Dogma. Social Dogma is based on a simple assumption: That certain people know better what is best for all other creatures, and that such people possess the right to enforce their 'enlightened' beliefs because they shall lead the rest of us to a 'perfect' world. Taking his cue, perhaps, from what had begun in 1215 at Runnymede, it was John Locke who (nearly five hundred years later) identified and settled for attainable goals. He and Adam Smith seem to have broken with the two-thousand-year-old search for what is 'right,' and substituted an inquiry into that which is possible. It would be consistent with the previous argument to suggest that the sober modesty of Locke and Smith was as much a reflection on British temperament as Kant or Hegel was on the German. Be that as it may, the astonishing influence of their thought is comparable only to the success of the societies which paid attention to them. Without diminishing the significance of Locke's lasting pronouncements on the limited role of government, the separation of powers, the relationship of the individual to the community, or the full roster of civil liberties, one is tempted to say that his genius lay in the very acceptance of certain limitations, which is at the heart of his Essay Concerning Human Understanding. Free from what Friedrich Hayek calls the "fatal conceit," Locke presents his chief work fully cognizant of inconsistencies, perhaps to signal that these are forever inherent in the human condition. MONOLOGUES DIALOGUES It took another hundred years before Nietzsche would declare God "dead" but, by claiming to be free from error, Kant began what amounts to a monologue. Hegel and Marx continued the practice of dispensing monologues. By the time Marx appeared on the scene, German thinkers had succeeded in seizing center-stage from the French. Social Dogma was now ready to embark on the effort of replacing Christianity as the dominant religion, hence its first conquest in Russia where only a new orthodoxy was capable of upstaging the old one. Russia had produced no thinkers of its own and was in desperate need of alternatives. Yet, there may have been deep-seated reasons in Germany itself. After centuries of struggle for a consolidated German state, after centuries of religious contention between Catholics and Protestants, between Lutherans and Calvinists, the perceived need for a set of finite doctrines was approaching crisis levels. Social Dogma provided all answers, bypassed or eliminated 'troublesome' individual rights, and throve on group hostility. Because it does not accommodate contrary opinion and rules by decree without room for discussion, it must lead to intrusive government the ultimate embodiment of The Monologue. Where it ran its full course, it gave the world leaders like Lenin, and his two stellar disciples: Stalin and Hitler. By contrast, the founding of the United States of America occurred amidst a series of dialogues. Most notable among these was the long-standing disagreement between Jefferson and Hamilton. They and their contemporaries managed to divine from their studies of other societies an uncommon understanding of human nature. Postulating moral foundations as a given, these men created a framework which sought to limit secular laws, rules and regulations to the necessary minimum. They recognized that the fewer the rules, the broader the potential agreement. Broad agreement, in turn, results in less strife. Less strife leaves people free to create and accomplish. The fewer obstacles placed in the path of individuals, the less energy wasted in trying to overcome them. Nevertheless, they left the doors wide open for the continuation of the dialogue, enshrined in the American Construct as the system of checks and balances. PRODUCTION DISTRIBUTION Adam Smith sets the agenda at the outset of his The Wealth of Nations by discussing production and productivity. It is a study of constantly accumulating wealth, providing increased access to a growing number of participants. On the opposite side, Marx's chief argument concerns "surplus value" and to whom it ought to belong. (In fact, he presumes to determine to whom anything may belong.) From the outset, Social Dogma concentrates on distribution. Socialism is defined as distribution of the national product based on individual performance, Communism as distribution of the national product based on individual need. Social Dogma is unable even to think in terms of production, of increased availability. Instead, it is obsessed with the distribution of what it considers a finite quantity of goods. A review of the past thirty years in the United States will confirm these findings. American Liberals have concentrated solely on distribution. Emphasis was shifted from opportunity to entitlement. Instead of increased productivity, Liberal efforts are always directed toward increasing demands. These demands are for unearned participation in, and distributions from, the accomplishments of those who produce the nation's goods tangible and intangible. Those who would resist are branded with pejorative labels no self-respecting American is able to bear. Agendas of confiscation and of arbitrary distribution result in a downward spiral. With incentives shrinking, less and less is produced, consequently there is less and less to distribute. This, in a nutshell, is why welfare states invariably increase poverty. MINORITIES MAJORITIES Were it sensible and desirable in and of itself, 19th century German Social Dogma would still be irrelevant for the United States. It was devised under conditions and with societies in mind in which a minority enjoyed a high standard of living, while the circumstances of the "overwhelming majority" (in the words of Marx) were in urgent need of improvement. By the time Social Dogma launched its all-out assault on the American Construct during the mid-1960s the overwhelming majority of Americans had come to enjoy a higher standard of living than members of any previous society. How, then, was it possible for this patently alien, irrelevant doctrine to pervade our thinking, our language, our institutions? Social Dogma persuades its intended victims that it has people's best interest in mind, that it seeks peace, justice, and equality, that it is motivated by caring and compassion. Its ability to camouflage true intent and adapt to a specific scenario is matchless. It never admits to prohibiting freedom of speech; instead, it masquerades in the Third Reich as "allegiance to the Fuhrer," in the Soviet realm as "class struggle," in the United States as "politically correct vocabulary." It never admits to obstructing the path of the talented; instead, it decrees purification of the race (Third Reich), leadership of the proletariat (Soviet Union), affirmative action (United States). It never admits to confiscating the property of those who had succeeded; instead, it claims to recover "what the Jews had plundered" (Third Reich), to establish national ownership (Soviet Union), to protect the environment (United States). A convergence of unusual circumstances rendered Americans receptive, among them the ennui of the affluent, the Vietnam debate, the new preoccupation with clean water and air, the Civil Rights movement. Along with its staples of "peace," "social justice," and all-round 'goodness,' Social Dogma promised unlimited and unrestricted sex. Soon, an entire generation of Americans was convinced that their own existing ideals and aspirations blended naturally with Social Dogma, which merely expressed them in 'more precise and more global terms.' Thus, the interpretation of the Vietnam conflict was switched. No longer an effort by the Free World to contain Communist expansion, it became "the just struggle of a small people against the mighty Imperialists." The rising tide of legitimate concern for America's Blacks was harnessed to brand every person of white skin with the indelible stigma of racism, thereby eliminating any prospect of a resolution. The genuine compassion Americans feel toward the less fortunate was corrupted into the agenda of redistribution. Academic freedom in our universities was turned into a weapon to stifle academic freedom, just as Martin Heidegger Hitler's first appointee as University President, and still an object of academic worship in America had demanded in 1933. With utter disregard for the American experience which had proven the very opposite of Social Dogma at every turn, the minds of an entire generation were taken over completely, producing several million unwitting Fellow Travelers. Today, it is that same generation which performs mind-snatching on successive generations of children. They are stealing childhood from our children who are commandeered on the streets to march against ballot items they cannot possibly comprehend. Boys and girls are recruited to act as mouthpieces for activists on behalf of issues patently outside their youthful interests or grasp. A majority of them now believe they belong to a minority. Far from being encouraged to think of themselves as Americans, their sense of identity is imprinted with the stigma of separateness from their earliest moments of consciousness. The camouflage applied in this area bears the labels "self esteem," "role models," "roots." Most immigrants took their lives in their hands because in the country of their birth they could not get ahead, or could not get along (or both). What made the difference? Why have men and women Irish, Sicilian, Hungarian, Vietnamese and, yes, African made out so infinitely better over here than over there? The American Construct knew nothing about hyphens. If everybody was American, plain and simple, the curse of warring groups will have been eliminated and a community of individuals was free to evolve. Nearly two centuries later, the assault of Social Dogma was spearheaded by the arrival of the hyphen. The hyphen accomplished what the Wolfpack, the V1, the V2, and all the ICBMs of the Soviet Union could not. It created the seams at which America was to come apart. Meanwhile, a growing multitude of minorities is attempting the uneasy fit of employing Social Dogma developed to suppress the minority in a given society to gain objectives advocated by self-appointed leaders. Common sense would inform them that destroying the very structure in which they seek accommodation has never been a successful recipe. If the objective is to live inside a certain building, demolishing it and distributing the bricks is hardly the way to go. Social Dogma has yet to succeed in building anything at all. History has recorded its unparalleled record of destruction, which is why the so-called National Standards for U.S. History and for World History had gone to such lengths to eliminate the teaching of history in our schools. DEBATE OR WARFARE? And so we return to The Question That Matters. Communism and Nazism have demonstrated what might happen if Social Dogma governs. At the expense of the individual law, education, and human interaction of every kind will be subordinated to some "higher purpose," expressed always in terms of group identity. The agenda is prescribed and adjusted daily by those who claim to 'know best' what is appropriate for all creatures. During the 19th century, the clash between these conflicting views remained confined to writings. In 1914, the contest moved to the battlefield. Two World Wars and the so-called Cold War later the same battle continues to rage, now in the everyday life of America. It is, without doubt, a fight to the finish. Yet those who have been persuaded that we are debating merely different approaches to our shared American traditions remain the great majority. Decades of mind manipulation by social theorists, social dogmatists, has succeeded in distorting our vision. That which divided Kant from Locke, Marx from Adam Smith, separates Liberals from Conservatives in today's America. Significantly, Locke neither implied that he was privy to divine insight nor found himself in need of declaring God "dead" to make his point. English-speaking thinkers, unlike their German counterparts, did not seek to challenge religion an important distinction between the protagonists, still today. Securely anchored in their moral foundations, Conservatives can afford to pursue the dialogue as a process of discovery, amongst themselves and with the American people at large. Liberals must continue to rely upon their unrelenting monologue. Because in the short term dialogue can appear as uncertainty and monologue as strength, the time has come to distinguish between appearance and substance as follows: * The agenda of so-called Liberals in America rests on 19th century (German) Social Dogma. No alternative roots of significance are traceable. * Social Dogma is diametrically opposed the principles on which this nation was founded. * Social Dogma seeks to restrict freedom of speech, freedom of movement, advancement without discrimination, and the protection of private property. * Having lost two World Wars and the Cold War, Social Dogma continues to cast aspersions on our defense establishment, seeking eventually to destroy the capability of this country to resist and combat forces of oppression. * Social Dogma, unchallenged, has led to Bolshevism and Nazism. _________________________________________________________________ These are the origins, this is the true nature of the so-called Liberal agenda. Without comprehending it, we are unlikely to exorcize it. Some have argued that even the Liberal agenda has 'good' points, but then people were taken in by Hitler's Autobahns, Mussolini's success in getting the trains to run on time, or all those Five-Year Plans which were supposed really, but REALLY, to put food on Soviet tables. Remember Raskolnikov's visionary nightmare about the new microbes? "Men attacked by them became at once mad and furious. But never had men considered themselves so intellectual and so completely in possession of the truth as these sufferers, never had they considered their decisions, their scientific conclusions, their moral convictions so infallible..." We have identified the microbes and the plague they spread. We called the virus Social Dogma. Cataloguing the damage it has already caused to America is but a first step. Next, we must learn to differenciate between those who have been infected, and those who are actively spreading the virus. While the former may be cured, the latter need to be engaged head-on. _________________________________________________________________ � Copyright 1996 Balint Vazsonyi ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Oct 14 08:50:18 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 23:50:18 +0800 Subject: 18th Century Hacking [scienceagogo] Message-ID: <199810141532.KAA11922@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > X-within-URL: http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/19980914030842data_trunc_sys.shtml > Subject: 19980914030842data_trunc_sys.shtml > Richard Taylor > richard at jujumedia.com Apple UK Old Post Bags: The Story of the > Sending of a Letter in Ancient and Modern Times, brought to our > attention by the Dead Media Project. > > In those days, "franking" was the name of the game, meaning the > transmission of information by way of sophisticated encryptions on the > outside of an envelope. The trick was to take advantage of the > pre-Penny Black system of cash-on-delivery, where postmen demanded > exorbitant fees from recipients. Outwitting the Post Office involved > gleaning important information from, say, the way the address was > written, then refusing the letter on the grounds that it was too > expensive. > > The poet Coleridge tells the story of the most rudimentary sort of > frank, witnessed at an inn in the north of England. A postman offered > a letter to the barmaid and demanded a shilling. Sighing > melodramatically, she gave back the letter, protesting that she was > too poor to pay for it. Coleridge, ever the gentleman, insisted on > forking out the shilling, only to be shown afterwards that the > envelope was empty. The letter's message was in fact contained in a > number of subtle hieroglyphics alongside the address. [text deleted] > The Post Office cottoned on to such shenanigans, but proof of > fraudulent activity was next to impossible. They did, however, crack a > number of basic codes, and administered fines accordingly. Secret > messages embedded within apparent instructions to the postman, such as > "With speed" or "Postman, be you honest and true" were well known, as > was the practice of highlighting certain words on a newspaper > (newspapers were delivered free of charge) to convey a simple idea. > Underlining the name of a Whig politician commonly meant "I am well", > while doing the same thing with a Tory meant the opposite. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jim at acm.org Wed Oct 14 08:52:56 1998 From: jim at acm.org (Jim Gillogly) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 23:52:56 +0800 Subject: ATTN: BlackNet, sog's keys 4 sale Message-ID: <3624BFD1.7BB0BF77@acm.org> Adam Back writes: > Type Bits/KeyID Date User ID > pub 384/5A5AD16B 1994/02/11 *** KEY REVOKED *** > BlackNet > > A revoked key, and a rather small key size, this rings a bell, some of > you may recall that some time ago Paul Leyland factored that key. For the record, that key was factored by a team consisting of Paul Leyland, Arjen Lenstra, Alec Muffett, and Jim Gillogly. -- Jim Gillogly 23 Winterfilth S.R. 1998, 15:10 12.19.5.10.16, 7 Cib 9 Yax, Ninth Lord of Night From guy at panix.com Wed Oct 14 09:11:49 1998 From: guy at panix.com (Information Security) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 00:11:49 +0800 Subject: IRS wants cypherpunks archives Message-ID: <199810141538.LAA29509@panix7.panix.com> > From: Adam Back > > Jeff, and fellow agents seem to be interested in cypherpunks archives > (as evidenced by asking Jim Choate who operates one of the mailing > list nodes, but who does _not_ offer archived list traffic). Jeff is > Cc'd on this post to be helpful (who says cypherpunks aren't helpful > -- you only have to ask). > > This archive seems to be operational: > > http://www.inet-one.com/cypherpunks/ And less than 100 lines of client-side programming (I use 'expect') will retrieve the entire archive. ---guy Watch them make a grunt retrieve it all manually. From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Wed Oct 14 09:23:01 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 00:23:01 +0800 Subject: more Toto keys... so what's it all mean Message-ID: <199810141529.QAA32138@server.eternity.org> Someone asked me in email what the meaning of the last 3 posts I made, the plethora of public and private keys, discrete log attacked, deadbeefed, forged, factored, decrypted etc. getting confusing. The 3 messages I wrote this morning go together, -- they are all on the same post by anonymous/Toto, just me realising more things about it. Here's what happened (play along if you like): a) I tried fetching the key the message was encrypted to (try to decrypt it -- it will tell you what keyid you need) from a keyserver b) I noticed that the public key I fetched is the 384 bit blacknet key which Paul Leyland broke (clue was the key on the keyservers is revoked, and only 384 bits, which made me remember Leyland's factoring attack), c) used altavista to find Leyland's announce to sci.crypt a few years back which included the private key he obtained by factoring the 384 bit blacknet public key d) decrypted the message with the blacknet private key, e) inside the message was a public and private key, at this point whoopee yet another Toto key (post 1), f) wondered if this key was the one which signed the messages the IRS has incarcerated CJ over, checked the signature, yes! (post 2), g) tried to sign a message with the key -- oops it has a password because the private key is encrypted, h) tried the passwords that John Young forwarded to the list a few weeks back from some anonymous source, yup one of them decrypts the private key, and we are able to make signatures! (post 3). As to what it means -- it means that one or more others could have been the author of the message the IRS claim Carl Johnson wrote. Heck anyone could sign posts with that key now. The allegations that CJ was sharing the "carljohn" account at sympatico with hackers may also be interesting especially if anyone is still able to verify that the account details are correct (who knows -- maybe the account is still active! -- anyone want to try?), because it throws even further into doubt (aside from the doubt arising from the numerous forgeries surrounding Toto) the IRS presumption that all things apparently sent from sympatico were written by CJ ... Perhaps Jeff and fellow IRS agents could ask sympatico if they are able to verify the validity of the account details. Adam -- print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Message-ID: <3624C73B.F5A648E1@imho.net> X wrote: > > DNA of identical siblings is identical? I guess that makes sense, since > we're really split after conception... so explain why my brother has smooth > hands and fingers with almost no prints (lucky bastard!) and mine look like > mother teresa's face... (probably more now than before, eh?) > > X > What about the difference in twins being that one can be from two ovum and two sperm?? Did you ever think of that?? Thus a brother and sister that are twins? Maybe you are one of said twins two eggs two sperm... Is if fraternal VS paternal twins? I forget... or maternal VS paternal?? Maybe paternal two sperms maternal the egg split twice... High School Biology was so long ago and I do computers now, not biology or medicine. - lhe - lhe From guy at panix.com Wed Oct 14 09:38:28 1998 From: guy at panix.com (Information Security) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 00:38:28 +0800 Subject: Aaron Debunks Crypto Myths Message-ID: <199810141614.MAA00413@panix7.panix.com> > From: John Young > > Crypto emissary David Aaron gave a speech today in > Germany boosting US encryption policy for privacy and > commerce. Says it's an insult to claim US intelligence > agencies want backdoor access and other untrue myths: > > http://jya.com/aaron101398.htm A prime example of DoubleThink, since Key Recovery == backdoor access. # http://jya.com/aaron101398.htm # # Clearly, a balance must be struck between the needs of businesses and # consumers and the protection of society as a whole. What is the # answer? We believe the answer lies in cryptographic systems that # provide trustworthy security services along with lawful access. By # lawful access, I refer to a range of technologies designed to permit # the plain text recovery of encrypted data and communications under a ^^^^^^^^ # court order or other lawful means that safeguards civil liberties. In other words, they believe in cryptographic systems with backdoor access. The NSA testified to Congress concerning lawful access: : The Puzzle Palace : Inside the National Security Agency, : America's most secret intelligence organization : Author James Bamford, 1983 revision, ISBN 0-14-00.6748-5 : : P381-382: NSA Director General Allen testified to Congress that there is no : statute that prevents the NSA from interception of domestic communications. : Asked whether he was concerned about the legality of expanding greatly its : targeting of American citizens, the NSA replied: "Legality? That particular : aspect didn't enter into the discussions." The government's idea of "lawful access" is "anywhere, anytime". # http://jya.com/aaron101398.htm # # We are not wedded to any single technology approach. Key management # infrastructures, key recovery and other recoverable products that # provide lawful access are some of the ways to achieve a reasonable # balance. We believe that seeking industry-led, market-based solutions # is the best approach to helping law enforcement. Oh dey do do dey? : From owner-firewalls-outgoing at GreatCircle.COM Wed May 14 18:54:15 1997 : Received: from osiris (osiris.nso.org [207.30.58.40]) by ra.nso.org : (post.office MTA v1.9.3 ID# 0-13592) with SMTP id AAA322 : for ; Wed, 14 May 1997 12:56:13 -0400 : Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 12:58:46 -0400 : To: firewalls at GreatCircle.COM : From: research at isr.net (Research Unit I) : Subject: Re: Encryption Outside US : : I was part of that OECD Expert Group, and believe I may shine at least : some light on what exactly was said and happened at the meetings. : : The main conflict during all sessions was the demand of the US to be : able to decrypt anything, anywhere at any time versus the European : focus: we want to have the choice - with an open end - to maintain : own surveillance. The US demand would have caused an immediate : ability to tap into what the European intelligence community believes to : be its sole and exclusive territory. In fact the Europeans were not at all : pleased with the US view points of controlling ALL crypto. Germany and : France vigorously refused to work with the US on this issue. : : ... the Australian and UK views that felt some obligation : from the 1947 UKUSA treaty (dealing with interchange of intelligence). : : Bertil Fortrie : Internet Security Review The US Government insists on the capability "to decrypt anything, anywhere at any time" he said. Gosh, that doesn't sound like they believe "market-based solutions" are the best approach, does it? * http://epic.org/crypto/ban/fbi_dox/impact_text.gif * * SECRET FBI report * * NEED FOR A NATIONAL POLICY * * A national policy embodied in legislation is needed which insures * that cryptography use in the United States should be forced to be * crackable by law enforcement, so such communications can be monitored * with real-time decryption. * * All cryptography that cannot meet this standard should be prohibited. No it don't, do it? : * "Above the Law" : * ISBN 0-684-80699-1, 1996 : * by David Burnham : * : * The suspicion that the government might one day try to outlaw any : * encryption device which did not provide easy government access was : * reinforced by comments made by FBI Director Freeh at a 1994 Washington : * conference on cryptography. "The objective for us is to get those : * conversations...wherever they are, whatever they are", he said in : * response to a question. : * : * Freeh indicated that if five years from now the FBI had solved the : * access problem but was only hearing encrypted messages, further : * legislation might be required. Anywhere, anytime. ---guy "Easy access". From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Wed Oct 14 09:50:39 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 00:50:39 +0800 Subject: attribution for 384 bit BlackNet factoring (Re: ATTN:, sog's keys 4 sale) In-Reply-To: <3624BFD1.7BB0BF77@acm.org> Message-ID: <199810141615.RAA32755@server.eternity.org> Jim Gillogly writes: > Adam Back writes: > > Type Bits/KeyID Date User ID > > pub 384/5A5AD16B 1994/02/11 *** KEY REVOKED *** > > BlackNet > > > > A revoked key, and a rather small key size, this rings a bell, some of > > you may recall that some time ago Paul Leyland factored that key. > > For the record, that key was factored by a team consisting of Paul Leyland, > Arjen Lenstra, Alec Muffett, and Jim Gillogly. Yes sorry about that. The name that I remembered in association with the attack was Leyland, probably because he posted the announce. Credit where credit is due. Adam From nobody at replay.com Wed Oct 14 09:51:25 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 00:51:25 +0800 Subject: Use encryption to foil spooks' data harvesting, says US state dept Message-ID: <199810141617.SAA07987@replay.com> http://ds.state.gov/documents/protect.doc �Most international U.S. corporate telecommunications are not encrypted. Some countries do not allow encryption of telecommuni-cations traffic within their borders, but it should be considered where feasible for any transmission of competitive information. �Many telecommunications transmissions will contain "key words", used to identify information of interest to a third party. A key word can be the name of a technology, product, project, or anything else which may identify the subject of the transmission. � Encryption should be the first line of defense since it is easier for foreign intelligence services to monitor lines than to place "bugs", however encryption will provide little if any security if a careful examination for audio "bugs" elsewhere in the room is not conducted. From guy at panix.com Wed Oct 14 09:57:14 1998 From: guy at panix.com (Information Security) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 00:57:14 +0800 Subject: Gary Burnore vs. Earth (Was: Value of Annon. Remailers) Message-ID: <199810141634.MAA00719@panix7.panix.com> > From: Missouri FreeNet Administration > > Obviously, as defenders of this man's right to post material offensive > to Burnore, we too came under attack. One man's attack is another's defense. > The point here is that what little survives about this lunatic child > molester (he has even successfully had his North Carolina Sex Offender record > removed!),... Gee, why don't you ask North Carolina why, in writing? > Yes, I know, at least half of you are sitting here going "now why did they > bother us with that?". The answer is we feel VERY strongly that if not for > what [little] we were able to find as a result of A/R's, we would never have > been able to figure this clown out at all. And loco though he may be, he is > also a *prodigious* pain in the ass,... Again, ying/yang. Let us know when you have an original thought. ---guy From Richard.Bragg at ssa.co.uk Wed Oct 14 10:37:28 1998 From: Richard.Bragg at ssa.co.uk (Richard.Bragg at ssa.co.uk) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 01:37:28 +0800 Subject: DNA Message-ID: <8025669D.005D7FCE.00@seunt002e.ssa.co.uk> Ok so the genotype is the same (same DNA) but the phenotype is different (what you see). It's more complex than this but there are all sorts of ways that genes express themselves and how this can be changed. A good dose of phenol or benzene can do wonders to your genetic material. A trip to Windscale (sorry Selafield) to inspect the inside of the reactor vessel etc all has an effect. DNA testing would probably never look at the entire sequence anyway. It would look at enough to give near unique markers. Using a "drill down" technique to gradually exclude until only one remains. ie normal number of gene pairs (not many people live with duff code in here but there are some) male vs female (50%) blood group etc Why use actual matching until you need to, it's expensive. You get down to a handful and test those on a wider range of codes. You hope the samples are good and the genes haven't been damaged or contaminated. Don't rely on the science. The science is our tool NOT us of the science. We already rely too much on the technology, science, methods etc. This is not a scientific way of working. Anyway have fun!! Hwyl From wburton at pipestream.com Wed Oct 14 11:10:19 1998 From: wburton at pipestream.com (Walter Burton) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 02:10:19 +0800 Subject: DNA Message-ID: <013D438ED22ED2119F630060082F763C08A8F2@kenny.pipestream.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: X [mailto:xasper8d at lobo.net] > Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 1998 10:00 AM > Cc: cypherpunks at toad.com > Subject: RE: DNA > [snip] > so explain why my brother has smooth > hands and fingers with almost no > prints (lucky bastard!) and mine look > like mother teresa's face... Wear-and-tear? > (probably more now than before, eh?) Yecch! \\/alter From minow at pobox.com Wed Oct 14 11:28:36 1998 From: minow at pobox.com (Martin Minow) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 02:28:36 +0800 Subject: more Toto keys... so what's it all mean In-Reply-To: <199810141529.QAA32138@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: Adam Back summarizes the Toto-files by noting > >As to what it means -- it means that one or more others could have >been the author of the message the IRS claim Carl Johnson wrote. Heck >anyone could sign posts with that key now. > This suggests that a cynical, paranoid, person could create a "deniable" signature key by doing what "Toto" did: 1. Choosing a key length that a "very competent attacker" (i.e. a TLA), and only a "very competent attacker", could factor. 2. Signing a message and leaving the public key that signed that message on a public site. Now, when you are accused of signing a message, you can raise a "reasonable doubt" defence by claiming that the TLA may have reconstructed the private key that signed the message in question. Martin Minow minow at pobox.com From nobody at replay.com Wed Oct 14 11:29:35 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 02:29:35 +0800 Subject: Gary Burnore vs. Earth (Was: Value of Annon. Remailers) Message-ID: <199810141756.TAA18997@replay.com> Missouri FreeNet Administration wrote: > First off, let us state up front that this is an aside to the previous > poster, and not totally on-point: feel free to hit the delete key, and > accept our apologies if this is a problem. > > About two months ago, we met the infamous Burnore & Company while > defending a semi-annonymous UseNet poster calling himself "Outlaw-Frog-Raper". > It seems that in classical Burnore style "OFR" found himself the sudden > victim of [literally] daily TOS/SPAM complaints by Burnore and Co. for making > use of UseNet to air his decidedly anti-police positions (it's odd how "pro > police" Burnore is, isn't it?). Given Gary Burnore's criminal record, he needs all the sucking up to the police he can get. In addition to his arrest and conviction for molesting his girlfriend's daughter in Santa Clara, CA, he was also arrested for unlawful assembly for his participation in Critical Mass' bicycle blockade of the streets of San Francisco during rush hour. (See: http://www.e-media.com/cm/sac.html ) And this criminal has the chutzpah to try and be a net Nazi as well. This same self-righteous individual once lectured another netizen about how it's wrong to "fight abuse with abuse". > Obviously, as defenders of this man's right to post material offensive > to Burnore, we too came under attack. Fortunately, we have been with > our upstream provider for a long time, and are on *very* good terms: they told > Burnore to keep his complaints to himself. But I digress... The best defense against censorious cretins like Gary Burnore is education. That's what the victims of the infamous "Rev." Steve Winter (who also lives in Raleigh, NC, BTW) had to do to counteract his abusive tactics. A "Steve Winter FAQ" was compiled and posted to Usenet as well as being published on the web. People who are the subject of his harassment tactics have something to show to their ISPs, employers, etc. when Winter makes his bogus threats. > As this "war" intensified, we attempted to determine just who in the hell > this lunatic *was*, as nobody here is a regular Usenet follower (just when > we have our slow periods, we'll check in with the loons to kill a couple of > hours...). To our surprise, we discovered that while Burnore/Databasix/etc. > are known far and wide, the actual traffic that passes between them and the rest > of the Earthly population is pretty well eradicated. Here's a guy who has actually > sat down and deleted (according to DejaNews) *tens of thousands* of his -own- posts! > Not to mention the unknown number of posts which he has "thoughtfully taken care of > for those others who forgot to do so themselves"... This is the same Gary Burnore who cajoled an anonymous whistleblower for "hiding behind a remailer" and boasted "I have nothing to hide", although he himself attempts to gain plausible deniability for his own posts by preventing an impartial third party from archiving them, then claiming they were "forged" if he inserted his foot too far into his mouth. Not only does Gary hide his own posts behind an X-No-Archive header, but posts critical of him have a tendency to be cancelled through forgery. He screwed up once and cancelled a post critical of him that was cross-posted to one of the news.admin.net-abuse.* NGs. Unfortunately for him, an anti-cancel-bot on that NG reposted the cancelled message along with a copy of the forged cancellation message sent by ... guess who ... Gary Burnore! Oops, Gary, can you say "busted"? > The point here is that what little survives about this lunatic child > molester (he has even successfully had his North Carolina Sex Offender record > removed!), has almost all come through *some* annonymizer. Whether a MixMaster, > or Cajones (RIP) "intentional annonymizer", or an "unintentional annonymizer" > such as a large [cypherpunks] listserv with "bad headers". By his own account, Gary Burnore spent nearly $30K getting the child molestation charge plea-bargained down to a misdemeanor. My guess is that he has no money left to carry through on his idle threats of frivolous legal action against those on his lengthy enemies list. For example, when Jeff Burchell demanded a letter from Gary's lawyer when he was demanding that Jeff turn over his remailer logs to DataBasix, what Jeff received was a letter from Gary's girlfriend Belinda Bryan impersonating a lawyer. For Jeff's account of that episode, visit: http://calvo.teleco.ulpgc.es/listas/cypherpunks at infonex.com/HTML-1997-11/msg00536.html > We submit that it only takes one successful argument, even though there be > a million such arguments available, to "proof" the value of an annoymous remailer. > we then extend the original Burnore story (presented in part below) in further > support. It proves that censorship need not originate with a governmental body. All it takes is a determined individual with more time available to harass than his victims do to defend against it. > Yes, I know, at least half of you are sitting here going "now why did they > bother us with that?". The answer is we feel VERY strongly that if not for > what [little] we were able to find as a result of A/R's, we would never have > been able to figure this clown out at all. And loco though he may be, he is > also a *prodigious* pain in the ass, who represents a real, true threat to > what little freedoms we still have in the US. Burnore isn't a loner in the > political sense: he's actually becoming pretty mainstream. If A/R's can help > to keep scum like him in the light, where he can't hide his hypocrises [sp?] > through a cancel or "DejaNuke", then they are one of our most important national > resources, and should be defended (and *funded*) as such! The problem is that most dissidents have a weak point somewhere where they are vulnerable, whether it be a censorious hate mail campaign to his/her ISP or employer, mail bombing, spam baiting, forged mailing list subscriptions, or one of countless other denial-of-service attacks that Gary Burnore, Belinda Bryan, Billy McClatchie (aka "Wotan"), or otther members of the DataBasix abuse factory can conjure up. > Just our [very biased] $.02 worth... > > The full-time [yet totally volunteer] staff of Missouri FreeNet: > > J.A. Terranson, sysadmin at mfn.org > John Blau, jb214 at mfn.org > Beatrice Hynes, beatrice at mfn.org > Frescenne "M", support at mfn.org > A. Pates, support at mfn.org > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Consider the episode last year with Gary Burnore and DataBasix vs. > Jeff Burchell and his Mailmasher and Huge Cajones machines. > Made-to-order abuse appeared right on cue to reinforce the claims > that Burnore and his girlfriend Belinda Bryan had made. And now > we've learned the real truth behind the whole episode. While Gary > Burnore was living with another girlfriend in Santa Clara, CA, he > was also molesting her teenaged daughter. An anonymous > whistleblower attempted to warn the girl's mother as well as her > school officials by anonymous e-mail. Burnore went ballistic and > falsely claimed "harassment". But the whistleblower was ultimately > vindicated when Burnore pled guilty to the molestation charge, was > placed on probation, and was required to register as a sex offender. > Unable to silence the whistleblower, Burnore began a campaign of > harassment against the operators of the remailers that were being > used to expose him. IOW, if you can't refute the message, shoot the > messenger. And if you can't shoot the messenger, attempt to disable > his means of communication (the remailers net). > > I recounted this case history, which can be researched in various > usenet archives by anyone interested, just to demonstrate that one > man's "harassment" can well be another man's investigative > journalism, even if the journalist or whistleblower is not in a > position to expose him/herself to retaliation by the wrongdoer, > which has been (coincidentally?) reported by virtually anyone who > has dared to challenge Gary Burnore publicly. From leif at imho.net Wed Oct 14 11:36:43 1998 From: leif at imho.net (Leif Ericksen) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 02:36:43 +0800 Subject: Use encryption to foil spooks' data harvesting, says US state dept In-Reply-To: <199810141617.SAA07987@replay.com> Message-ID: <3624E51A.C5074D7B@imho.net> Anonymous wrote: > > http://ds.state.gov/documents/protect.doc > > transmission of competitive information. > > �Many telecommunications transmissions will contain "key words", used to > HUM SOunds like the idea of the 'auto record' I say a keyword on the phone and wham I am being recorded to see *IF* I am some sort of terrorist trying to overthrow the government, get stuff that I should not have like a fully functional missile and what not. Do you all believe this? I do. I can not say why but I do. (Actually I could say why but it is two long stories.) Do you believe this is done in phone calls in the US based on the telephone switch doing the monitoring and it monitors ALL calls not just those that go over seas??? I believe so... See my above statement. Have you been recorded before??? I believe I have.... WHY??? Well, if you ask that then you do not belong on this group! - lhe From stuffed at stuffed.net Thu Oct 15 03:29:42 1998 From: stuffed at stuffed.net (STUFFED THU OCT 15) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 03:29:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: EVEN MORE FREE PORN: STUFFED HAS 10 LINKS TO 100S OF FREE PICS, NEW EVERY DAY Message-ID: <19981015071000.22006.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com> + 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS + 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES + PUSSY LICKIN' LESBIANS + ODD INSERTION + TAAASTY TAMERS + FREE XXX SMUT + TAAASTY TAMERS + SEXY SITES + ANTIQUE PORNOGRAPHY + VIRGIN PUSSIES + EUROPEAN WOMEN + LAND O LEZ + BONUS PIC 1 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/23807.htm + BONUS PIC 2 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/30298.htm + BONUS PIC 3 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/25946.htm + BONUS PIC 4 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/24676.htm + BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/7112.htm + MUCH, MUCH MORE! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- If you haven't visited STUFFED in the last few days, you're in for a real treat. It's faster than ever before and now, as a subscriber, you get 35 FREE new pics every day, plus over 100 more at carefully selected FREE sites we link to. This email is never sent unsolicited. Stuffed is the supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full instructions on unsubscribing are in every issue of Eureka! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- From nobody at replay.com Wed Oct 14 12:39:30 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 03:39:30 +0800 Subject: Gary Burnore vs. Earth (Was: Value of Annon. Remailers) Message-ID: <199810141901.VAA27568@replay.com> Information Security wrote: > > From: Missouri FreeNet Administration > > > > Obviously, as defenders of this man's right to post material offensive > > to Burnore, we too came under attack. > > One man's attack is another's defense. I'll have to remember that one. Some defense lawyers in Wyoming might want to use it in their clients' trial for their "defense" against that gay student. Now about Gary Burnore's "defense" against the underaged daughter of his girlfriend... > > The point here is that what little survives about this lunatic child > > molester (he has even successfully had his North Carolina Sex Offender record > > removed!),... > > Gee, why don't you ask North Carolina why, in writing? Irrelevant. The North Carolina website of registered sex offenders was only the vehicle by which the truth about Gary Burnore's existing conviction in California became known. Depublishing it in NC on some technicality doesn't alter the fact of the original offense for which Gary Burnore pled guilty in a Santa Clara, CA court, which sentenced him to probation and required him to register as a sex offender. And given Burnore's pattern of harassment ... er, "defense" ... of those who criticize him, the ability of someone with knowledge of the facts to freely speak without fear of retaliation enabled the public to learn the truth. Perhaps the original whistleblower's e-mailed warnings led or contributed to Burnore's arrest, and to the resulting psychiatric treatment which may have protected future potential victims. > Let us know when you have an original thought. Ad hominem often comes in handy... From mgering at ecosystems.net Wed Oct 14 12:54:29 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 03:54:29 +0800 Subject: DNA Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A5F@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com> > But what about identical sib's. They all > have exactly the same DNA! Or a clone ;). Matt From sdn at divcom.slimy.com Wed Oct 14 13:16:21 1998 From: sdn at divcom.slimy.com (SDN) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 04:16:21 +0800 Subject: FYI: More on WebTV security In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <19981014124309.A2210@divcom.slimy.com> On Wed, Oct 14, 1998 at 03:23:45AM -0700, Bill Stewart wrote: > At 06:32 PM 10/13/98 -0700, SDN wrote: > > >More relevant to the list, the threat model for the WebTV service/box is > >primarily concerned about loss of user data, forgotten passwords, and > >unsecured data over the public internet. It's not worried about privacy > >from WebTV insiders. > >As a result, all user data is stored on the service, traffic to and from the > >box is encrypted, and data isn't hidden from the customer care people. > > If it's not secure against insiders, then it's not only not secure against cops, I'd say it's definitely not secure against law enforcement. That's probably the primary reason why the boxes got export approval with 128-bit crypto. It's just so much easier to ask the service operators what a user has been up to, check the logs, and go... That's why I said that the threat model wasn't something a cypherpunk would be happy with. There just isn't any protection against an attacker who looks legitimite to Microsoft. > it's also not secure against crackers, unless Microsoft hsa let the > WebTV folks do a very good job of security. This is less clear. The service predates the buyout, and it hasn't (yet) migrated to NT. The people who run and maintain it are very competent (at least the ones I know personally), but anyone can make mistakes, espescially under the pressures of a startup environment. Jon Leonard Again, the above are my opinions. WebTV's opinions may be entirely different. From vznuri at netcom.com Wed Oct 14 13:27:00 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 04:27:00 +0800 Subject: ATTN: BlackNet, sog's keys 4 sale In-Reply-To: <3624BFD1.7BB0BF77@acm.org> Message-ID: <199810142000.NAA22600@netcom13.netcom.com> even in cyberspace, what goes around comes around..!! I've observed some keys/bits have a certain "stigma" attached to them. you might get good press breaking other keys, but not them. yes, performance-artist-known-as-toto, there are black clouds even in cyberspace From vznuri at netcom.com Wed Oct 14 13:38:17 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 04:38:17 +0800 Subject: IP: Surveillance: Candid camera for criminals Message-ID: <199810142012.NAA23621@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Surveillance: Candid camera for criminals Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 08:09:13 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com Source: BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_191000/191692.stm Tuesday, October 13, 1998 Published at 18:48 GMT 19:48 UK UK Candid camera for criminals Three steps to criminal-spotting A revolutionary surveillance system that can pin-point known criminals as they walk along in a crowd is being put to the test in a London borough. The Mandrake face recognition system will seek out 'target faces' in the closed circuit television (CCTV) footage in the Newham area. Councillor Ian Corbett said the decision to go ahead with the £60,000 six-month trial was made in response to the concerns of local residents. "We've done surveys recently and 60% of the population said that crime prevention was the No 1 issue in the community," Mr Corbett said. But fears of innocent people being identified by mistake have lead civil liberties groups to condemn the system and call for it to be tightly regulated. Making a match Newham has a network of 140 street cameras as well as 11 mobile camera units. Images beamed into the council's security centre in East Ham will be compared with a database of target faces supplied by police. The system can isolate the targets from the crowds of people appearing on CCTV. When a match is made the computer highlights the target and sounds an alarm. An operator then checks the image and decides if it is necessary to contact the police. The police in the area see the system as a way of making CCTV more efficient. "The people who go onto the system will be convicted criminals," said Chief Superintendent David Armond. Depending on the success of the trial, other targets like paedophiles could also be scanned. The system could also be used to help track down missing persons. Advanced technology Mandrake is the first identification system to be able to work from moving pictures. It has been designed by Software Systems International which has been concentrating on identification systems for several years. Less advanced systems are already in operation, including one which compares pictures of criminals with individuals crossing the Mexican border. One state in the US is using a database of millions of pictures to check on people who may be entering into more than one marriage, and another state is checking for duplicate drivers' licence applications in the same way. "The ability to capture a moving face is quite a new innovation and makes a lot of difference to being able to work with things like CCTV," Software Systems marketing manager Pat Oldcorn said. However she acknowledges that the computer will not always strike a perfect match. "We do expect that we will get a little bit of difference in interpretation because sometimes it will pick up a face at a three-quarters angle. We will need to use the human element to check the authenticity of the picture," she said. Big brother concerns It is the risk of error that has the civil liberties group Liberty most concerned. "The accuracy of facial mapping is very limited," campaigns manager Liz Parratt said. "For example, you need only to look at a handful of photos of celebrities to see how different the same people can look in different photos." "The claim that those who have nothing to hide have nothing to fear is rubbish. What the police call an 80% success rate is what we would call a one in five chance of a mistake." Ms Parratt said that even if the system did work, it would have to be carefully regulated to protect people's privacy. But Councillor Corbett said he was most concerned about the civil liberties of innocent people. A reduction in the crime rate in Newham over the next six months will persude the Labour-dominated council to continue with the system. ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Wed Oct 14 13:38:20 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 04:38:20 +0800 Subject: IP: Fwd: 10/13/98 MSNBC Special Report on Chem/Bio Attack; Tonight Message-ID: <199810142012.NAA23588@netcom13.netcom.com> From: RMORGAN762 at aol.com Subject: IP: Fwd: 10/13/98 MSNBC Special Report on Chem/Bio Attack; Tonight Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 01:58:55 EDT To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_908344735_boundary Content-ID: <0_908344735 at inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII --part0_908344735_boundary Content-ID: <0_908344735 at inet_out.mail.coil.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-zb04.mx.aol.com (rly-zb04.mail.aol.com [172.31.41.4]) by air-zb02.mail.aol.com (v50.18) with SMTP; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 16:56:55 -0400 Received: from bronze.coil.com (bronze.coil.com [198.4.94.1]) by rly-zb04.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id QAA24021; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 16:56:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.4.94.178] (cmhb2.coil.com [198.4.94.178]) by bronze.coil.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA05736; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 17:01:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: freematt at bronze.coil.com Message-Id: Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 17:02:14 -0400 To: Matthew Gaylor From: Matthew Gaylor Subject: 10/13/98 MSNBC Special Report on Chem/Bio Attack; Tonight Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit EmergencyNet News Resource Announcement 10/13/98 - 15:00CDT MSNBC Special Report on Chem/Bio Attack; Tonight Chicago, IL (EmergencyNet News) -- According to program announcements, MSNBC, on "The News with Brian Williams," will present a Special Report on a potential chemical attack on a U.S. city. The program is scheduled for tonight at 21:00EDT/18:00PDT. Courtesy of: Emergency Response & Research Institute EmergencyNet News Service 6348 N. Milwaukee Ave. #312, Chicago, IL 60646, USA (773) 631-3774 - Voice/Messages (773) 631-4703 - Fax (773) 631-0517 - Modem/Emergency BBS On-Line Service http://www.emergency.com - Website webmaster at emergency.com - E-Mail ************************************************************************** Subscribe to Freematt's Alerts: Pro-Individual Rights Issues Send a blank message to: freematt at coil.com with the words subscribe FA on the subject line. List is private and moderated (7-30 messages per week) Matthew Gaylor,1933 E. Dublin-Granville Rd.,#176, Columbus, OH 43229 Archived at http://www.reference.com/cgi-bin/pn/listarch?list=FA at coil.com ************************************************************************** --part0_908344735_boundary-- ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Wed Oct 14 13:41:41 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 04:41:41 +0800 Subject: IP: The Road to Biometric IDs: Identity Theft Message-ID: <199810142012.NAA23634@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: The Road to Biometric IDs: Identity Theft Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 08:39:43 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com Source: ABC http://www.abcnews.com/sections/us/DailyNews/id_theft981006.html When Someone Else Becomes You - Identity Crisis Lost Privacy is Price of Information Revolution *** "You feel like [your credit rating] is a mark of integrity, and then you're treated like a criminal and the whole onus is on you to prove you didn't do it." - identity theft victim Amy DuBois *** Could someone morph into you? (ABCNEWS.com) By Jan M. Faust ABCNEWS.com Oct. 9 - Babies are targeted. So are ex-lovers, ex-roommates, ex-friends and ex-spouses. And oh yeah, strangers too. People who use the Internet are definitely at risk. And so are those who don't. When it comes to identity theft-the pilfering of someone's personal data to get a free ride on a clean record or bountiful credit-the scams are so wide-ranging that there can be no generalization about who will get hit and who won't. Although there are no definite numbers on the incidence of identity theft in the United States, it is believed to be on an explosive trajectory. Last year, Trans Union, one of the nation's three major credit bureaus, reported approximately 350,000 cases of identity fraud. And, the U.S. Secret Service, a wing of the Treasury Department that gets involved on the larger cases, arrested approximately 10,000 people for participating in organized identity theft rings. As the numbers keep mushrooming, so have costs-up from $442 million in 1995 to $745 million in 1997, says Assistant Deputy James Bauer of the Secret Service. "So there's been a significant increase in the losses that tell us they're doing it more and applying a certain level of expertise." Your Money and/or Your Life When your evil doppelgangers go for convertible sports cars, or chunky diamond necklaces, more than your credit rating can be damaged. "I can promise you the day you learn of it you are at least 18 months from being whole again, " says Bauer. "During which time you can't buy a car, get a loan, maybe you're turned down for a job, and you may not even know why. Amy DuBois knows this firsthand. The 34-year-old Boston surgeon was swindled in what seemed a simple purse filching from her locked desk at the hospital. She took immediate, and what she assumed was adequate, action by canceling her credit cards and checks. Once that might have been enough. But as Bauer points out, new safeguards in the credit industry, like real-time verification of credit cards, have forced thieves to get craftier. The end result is that now, "Pickpockets will steal your wallet, and I say this facetiously, but they'll give you back the cash, just to get the IDs," says Bauer. Instant Credit Can Be an Instant Headache Although DuBois never recovered her purse or the money in it, it was the identification that was the real commodity. "Nearly two years later," DuBois says, "I got a phone call at home from a collection agency about an overdue credit account of $3,500 from a jewelry store in Detroit. "And then they started coming-I got two more notices in the mail, and two by phone within the next couple of days." When she checked her credit report, she found that almost $30,000 dollars of jewelry, roaming cell phone charges, and department store items had been racked up in her name, from accounts made at department stores with instant credit, billed to addresses that weren't hers. "The instant credit folks, like the departments stores, they're not checking or verifying because they're so eager to have new customers, because it's so competitive," says Beth Givens of the Privacy Rights Clearinghouse, whose consumer organization publishes help for victims. "I think the blame for a good bit of this epidemic lays at the feet of the credit industry." Will the Real Amy DuBois Stand Up? The fake Amy DuBois, it turned out, was a serious shopaholic. The real DuBois said that seeing her own credit report was "eerie" "Your student loans are there, your own Neiman-Marcus account, and then next to those are nine accounts that just aren't yours, marked delinquent." After 30 hours of her own time, four uninterrupted days of her secretary's time, and about $1,000 in lawyer's fees, DuBois is gradually starting to sort things out. That's typical, explains Ed Mierswinsky, a consumer advocate at the U.S. Public Interest Research Group. "The victims end up in a real mess. They sit on hold with the credit card companies, they sit on hold with the credit bureaus, they get on endless voice mail loops, the police don't care because the amount of money lost doesn't make their threshold for making major cases and getting promotions." For DuBois, what lingers now besides the voluminous paperwork needed to be filed whenever she legitimately needs to establish credit, is suspicion and mistrust about giving out her personal identifiers. Recently while trying to open an account at Blockbuster Video, she was asked for her driver's license and Social Security number. "I said, 'No, I'm not providing that. You don't need to have that.'" Although she eventually relented on the driver's license, she said she's much more protective of her Social Security number. Give Me Some Credit Here Guarding that precious number is one key to improving your odds, agree privacy rights advocates. Criminals will try to liberate it from you in a number of ways, as low-tech as sifting through your garbage can for records, and as high-tech as setting up application forms on Internet sites offering credit cards at the impossibly low, low rate of 1 percent APR. And since it's extremely difficult to eliminate risk, Givens suggests ordering your credit report at least once a year. "The key is to catch it early. We recommend just going to one of the three credit bureaus, and if you see signs of fraud, then order the other two." That would have helped DuBois, who's says she'll feel insecure and violated for the rest of her life. "It's a very strange sensation. I have a very good credit record, I've been very careful. You feel like it's a mark of integrity, and then you're treated like a criminal and the whole onus is on you to prove you didn't do it. The whole thing is very frightening." For all of her expense and troubles, DuBois' experience could have been worse. More damaging than run-of-the-mill credit theft are those cases where criminal records or vital statistics are affected, through marriage, divorce, an arrest, or even death under the cloned name. "I know of a case out West where a lady died using an assumed name," says Bauer, "and the true name holder had to get a death certificate undone." Recent Examples of Identity Theft In New York this week, the state attorney general warned of a scam being circulated through e-mail, faxes and fliers offering consumers a reimbursement of $500 from Gerber Baby foods as settlement in a phony class action. To apply, parents were asked to send copies of their child's birth certificate and Social Security card. Babies' Social Security numbers are plum because they allow for unflawed credit, and are rarely checked for fraud. John and Jane Smith's adult daughter obtained credit cards in their name and ran up debts of more than $40,000. She paid the interest fees so as not to alert her parents of her use of the credit cards, but was not able to keep up the payments. The credit card companies now demand the Smiths pay the bill, given that the debtor is their daughter. A thief stole Annette's wallet, and has since written bad checks in her name, and used her credit cards. Annette wonders if anyone pays attention to driver's license photos. The thief is white and Annette is African-American. To make matters worse, she has to pay $10 every time she needs a notarized affidavit stating she is not the crook. Meredith rented a room in her home to a woman who found her SSN. She collected the pre-approved offers of credit that were mailed to the house, filled them out in Meredith's name, and obtained 15 credit cards. She watched the mail and retrieved the monthly statements before Meredith saw them. She has since moved out, leaving Meredith with debts totaling $74,000. Francine was employed for a time as a writer for a publishing company. After she left, she found that her employer was using her SSN and driver's license number to obtain credit in her name. A police department detective investigating the case told Francine that the woman has a long history of identity theft spanning many states. Cheryl and her 7-year-old daughter went to the bank to open a checking account for the daughter. The bank told Cheryl her daughter had a bad credit report. Cheryl thinks that her ex-husband has been using the child's Social Security number to open credit accounts. ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Wed Oct 14 13:42:55 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 04:42:55 +0800 Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.42: Poll Shows 75% of Canadians Worry About Internet privacy Message-ID: <199810142012.NAA23610@netcom13.netcom.com> From: "ama-gi ISPI" Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.42: Poll Shows 75% of Canadians Worry About Internet privacy Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 00:15:56 -0700 To: ISPI Clips 5.42: Poll Shows 75% of Canadians Worry About Internet privacy News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) Wednesday October 14, 1998 ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This From: The Toronto Sun, October 2, 1998 http://www.thestar.com 1 in 3 plan to buy online, poll reveals But Canadians still worry about privacy, security http://www.thestar.com/back_issues/ED19981002/news/981002NEW06_NA-POLL2.htm l By Valerie Lawton Toronto Star Ottawa Bureau OTTAWA - More than one in three Canadians expect to buy something over the Internet within the next couple of years, a poll suggests. ``That's a much higher figure than anything we've seen,'' said Frank Graves, president of Ekos Research Associates. ``We're talking about a pretty radical transformation of the marketplace, the world of commerce, in a very short period of time.'' The results of the Ekos survey are to be released today. Canadians also told the pollster they have a number of worries about buying online. About three-quarters of those asked said they would not be willing to give their credit card number over the Internet even if they were buying something from a well-known business. And Graves said the poll found people would be more willing to shop on the Internet if privacy and consumer protection measures were introduced. It's an important message for business and government, said Andrew Reddick of the Public Interest Advocacy Centre in Ottawa. ``They have to put consumers first if they want this to work,'' said Reddick, whose centre also worked on the E-commerce study. He's skeptical of the finding that one in three people plan to buy over the Internet soon. ``It may be wishful thinking. It may be showing a high level of interest,'' he said. ``A lot of people aren't on the Internet - 75 per cent roughly still aren't connected from the home.'' Some 7 per cent of Canadians said they had shopped on the Internet at some point during the three months before the poll was taken. Ekos has conducted three surveys on E-commerce over the last year or so. The most recent, a telephone survey in June, involved 2,200 interviews - a sampling that's said to be accurate within 2.1 percentage points, 19 times out of 20. In Ottawa yesterday, the federal government tabled legislation that includes measures to protect personal information. ``For electronic commerce to flourish, we need confidence in how our personal information is gathered, stored and used and clear rules for industry,'' said Industry Minister John Manley. The minister also announced yesterday that the government will take a hands-off approach to cryptography, a method which encodes data so that only individuals with the proper digital ``key'' are able to decipher it. Copyright � 1996-1998, The Toronto Star. --------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------ ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research and educational purposes only. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases (up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message "Please enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to: ISPIClips at ama-gi.com . The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia (Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no government funding and takes a global perspective. ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research into electronic, personal and financial privacy with a view toward helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy. But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and generous financial support. If you value in the ISPI Clips service or if you are concerned about the erosion of your privacy in general, won't you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI Clips Supporter" or by taking out an institute Membership? We gratefully accept all contributions: Less than $60 ISPI Clips Supporter $60 - $99 Primary ISPI Membership (1 year) $100 - $300 Senior ISPI Membership (2 years) More than $300 Executive Council Membership (life) Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership. For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com . We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to any third party. ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Wed Oct 14 13:43:24 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 04:43:24 +0800 Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.38: TRUSTe is Creating a New Child Privacy Program Message-ID: <199810142012.NAA23599@netcom13.netcom.com> From: "ama-gi ISPI" Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.38: TRUSTe is Creating a New Child Privacy Program Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 00:12:32 -0700 To: ISPI Clips 5.38: TRUSTe is Creating a New Child Privacy Program News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) Wednesday October 14, 1998 ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This From: CNET News.com, October 13, 1998 http://www.news.com New Guidelines on Child Privacy http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,27489,00.html?dd.ne.tx.fs2.1013 By Tim Clark and Courtney Macavinta Staff Writers, CNET News.com Industry group TRUSTe [ http://www.truste.org/ ] is creating a new child privacy program that it hopes will address issues raised by the Federal Trade Commission and the so-called Bryan bill now pending in Congress. The FTC has reviewed TRUSTe's child privacy guidelines, which generally bar Web sites from collecting personal information from children under 13 without verifiable parental permission. They also require child-oriented Web sites to state clearly and prominently what information is being collected and how it is shared. "We want to help these sites catering to kids implement the bill," said Susan Scott, TRUSTe executive director. "We have created a unique children's seals, and to get that seal, sites need to comply with all the FTC requirements to create and implement privacy statements." Authored by Sen. Richard Bryan (D-Nevada), the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act was tacked on to the Internet Tax Freedom Act. The provision requires parental consent before Internet sites can collect information online from children age 12 and under. TRUSTe backs the Bryan bill but is concerned that is currently tied to Internet censorship legislation. One major children's site, Yahooligans plans to post TRUSTe's new child privacy seal because it says its practices comply with TRUSTe's guidelines. TRUSTe is talking to another major children's site, Disney about joining the program too. "Our privacy practices are in compliance with keeping a safe environment on the Web," said Rob McHugh, senior producer for Yahooligans, which has updated its privacy statement but not changed its practices to obtain the children's privacy seal. Yahooligans collects first names, age, gender, and home state, but no individually identifiable information, such email or physical address. "The practices are in effect right now for any new applicants [for TRUSTe's logo] for sites directed at kids under 13," Scott said. TRUSTe hopes its guidelines will become a "safe harbor" for child-oriented sites. That means the FTC would accept a site's use of the TRUSTe child privacy mark as evidence the site is following the law, with TRUSTe essentially becoming an enforcement arm. The FTC still must promulgate regulations on child privacy, and TRUSTe expects to alter its guidelines based on the federal agency's final rules, which may not be completed for a year. Scott expects no major changes. The Bryan bill would be the first online privacy legislation to pass, giving the FTC authority it previously felt it didn't have to enforce privacy rules. Scott predicts that requiring parental permission before collecting personal data on children will reduce the amount of information sites request. "The cost of business has gone up because of the verification [that parents approve]," she said. "Sites will need to look at their business models to see if they need that personal information." Scott praised Bryan for taking industry concerns into account by altering the initial legislation, for example, to apply specifically to commercial sites--not nonprofits--and by limiting the parental permission requirement to children 12 years and under, not ages 13 to 19. The Net Tax Freedom Act is still in limbo today as Congress's session comes down to the wire. The Senate passed the three-year moratorium on new Net taxes, but if the House doesn't push it through as is then Congress will likely run out of time to pass the legislation. There is speculation, however, that the tax moratorium will be attached to omnibus spending legislation that could be passed by midnight tomorrow before both houses adjourn. If the bill is passed, the child privacy protections also will be ushered into law. But the Net tax bill also contains a controversial provision by Sen. Dan Coats (R-Indiana) that exempts commercial sites from the tax break if they give minors unfettered access to "harmful" material. Specifically, TRUSTe's Children's Seal Program requires that licensees not: *Collect information from a child under 13 without parental consent or direct parental notification of the nature and intended use of the data. Parents should be able to prevent use of the information. *Collect personally identifiable offline contact information from children under 13 without parental consent. *Distribute to third parties any personal data collected from a child under 13 without parental consent. *Allow children under 13 to publicly post or otherwise distribute personal information without parental consent. Sites must try to prohibit children from posting any contact information. *Use a games or prizes to entice a child under 13 to divulge more information than is needed. Copyright � 1995-98 CNET, Inc. --------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------ ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research and educational purposes only. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases (up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message "Please enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to: ISPIClips at ama-gi.com . The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia (Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no government funding and takes a global perspective. ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research into electronic, personal and financial privacy with a view toward helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy. But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and generous financial support. If you value in the ISPI Clips service or if you are concerned about the erosion of your privacy in general, won't you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI Clips Supporter" or by taking out an institute Membership? We gratefully accept all contributions: Less than $60 ISPI Clips Supporter $60 - $99 Primary ISPI Membership (1 year) $100 - $300 Senior ISPI Membership (2 years) More than $300 Executive Council Membership (life) Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership. For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com . We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to any third party. ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From nobody at replay.com Wed Oct 14 14:30:13 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 05:30:13 +0800 Subject: hey DIRNSA: can't talk to allies Message-ID: <199810142054.WAA13575@replay.com> COMMUNICATIONS SECURITY TITLE: COMSEC - Secure Voice Telephones LESSON LEARNED: NATO elements must learn to use the standard secure telephones. BACKGROUND: For future NATO-led operations, it must be stressed that the NATO secure telephone standard is the STU IIB. Augmenting forces must bring compatible equipment if it stays under national control. Must come to grips with the US and NATO secure telephones within the command. There are problems associated with US and NATO secure telephones: The STU III/STU IIIA has not been released to NATO, so they should be eliminated from the NATO comm system. The NATO standard is the STU IIIB, only the STU IIB is compatible with the STU IIIA. Cannot adhere to US security regulations for protecting US secure voice systems in an allied environment. RECOMMENDATION: Consider a letter to DIRNSA requesting relaxation of current US policy. http://call.army.mil/call/spc%5Fprod/5sigcd/2tact.htm From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Oct 14 14:37:08 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 05:37:08 +0800 Subject: DNA (fwd) Message-ID: <199810142112.QAA13929@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: Matthew James Gering > Subject: RE: DNA > Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:34:07 -0700 > > But what about identical sib's. They all > > have exactly the same DNA! Actualy identical twins will only share about 50% of their DNA. They get 50% from each parent randomly. This means that only about 25% of the DNA will match their sibling from either parent. > Or a clone ;). This of course ignores transcription errors, environment issues, etc. It is possible that even a clone would have protein discrepencies which trace back to DNA strands that end up different than the original source organism. As the organism develops and ages these issues can become quite important. This aspect of DNA matching has gotten the short shift for sure. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From mgering at ecosystems.net Wed Oct 14 14:37:26 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 05:37:26 +0800 Subject: Two Jims, Werner and Matt redefine socialism for their own en ds Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A62@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com> > >> something like Belloc and Chesterton's "distributivism". > > > Distribute what and created by whom? > > Every libertarian or cypherpunk ought to have read "The Servile State" > by Hilaire Belloc. ...and in that context what is being distributed is > *land*, as private property to be lived on, farmed and passed on to > children. If you believe there is a single valid concept in that whole populist/agrarian bullshit I can shoot it down, otherwise it is not worth my time. Matt From rah at shipwright.com Wed Oct 14 14:54:38 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 05:54:38 +0800 Subject: Tim May Investigations Message-ID: And here I thought Tim was born in Virginia, or something... ;-). Cheers, Bob Hettinga --- begin forwarded text > Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 17:00:01 -0400 > From: rah-web > Reply-To: rah at shipwright.com > Organization: Philodox > MIME-Version: 1.0 > To: rah at shipwright.com > Subject: Tim May Investigations > > http://www.fwp.net/timmayinvestigations/ > > > > P.O. Box 3081, Frederick, MD 21705 > Voice: 301.695.2662 or 800.723.7026 > Fax: 301.695.4009 / Email: TMayDetect at aol.com > > > Providing the "ABC's" of Professional Investigations: > > > > AFFORDABLE > BUSINESSLIKE > CONFIDENTIAL > > > > LOCAL * NATIONAL * INTERNATIONAL > 24 HOUR SERVICE > > We offer complete professional services for any and all >types of professional investigations: > > > > Civil & Criminal Investigations > Background Checks/Polygraphs > Worker's Compensation Cases > Security Analysis > Credit & Bad Debt Services > Child Custody & Support > Domestic Relations > Missing Persons > Fire/Arson Investigations > Explosives Scene Analysis > Fire Code Investigations > Body Guard - Armed/Unarmed > Private Process Service > Skip Tracing > Debugging > Corporate Services Package > Seminars and Workshops on Workplace Violence > > Call for your FREE Initial Consultation! > > > > Profile of Tim May, President of Tim May Investigations > > "The sensitive nature of investigative services is reflected >in the attitude we promote. While discretion and >confidentiality are our highest priorities, we place great importance on >providing you with expert and concise counseling and >impartial documentation." --Tim May > > Mr. May currently serves as a Judge for Probate Court > > Senior investigator/explosive technician with the Office of the State >Fire Marshall of Maryland from 1974-1983. Prior to that, Mr. >May served as a police officer and Police Chief in Maryland. > > Former Department Chairman of the Arson Mitigation Division at the >National Fire Academy. > > Consultant and Instructor to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, & Firearms >(ATF), Federal Bureau of Investigation (F.B.I.), and expert >witness for U.S. Department of Justice and U.S. Attorney. > > Mr. May has testified as an expert on arson, explosives, hazardous >materials, criminal and civil investigations, and is >qualified in District, Circuit, and Federal Courts, as well as >International Courts. > > Successful completion of several high profile national cases has earned >world-wide recognition, providing contracts with foreign >governments and corporations. > > Adjunct member and lecturer to several state universities, colleges, and >associations. > > > Investigative Services > > Our associates are selected and employed by us because they >have a proven record based on a successful balance of >technical experience and personal characteristics. Each member of our >staff has undergone extensive training in all aspects of >investigative methodology. These skills and procedures are >constantly updated as the rules of evidence and judicial requirements >undergo revisions at local and national levels. Our ability to >work closely with clients and their legal representatives has >earned us an outstanding reputation nationally. > > In the 90's, investigative services are a $400 billion >dollar a year industry. An ever-increasing number of >individuals, businesses, and organizations are utilizing their legal >rights to increase security and gain piece of mind. Quality >investigative services can protect you from losing money in >lawsuits and damages claims, and even recover losses you may have >experienced. > > Exercise your right to know! > > > > Why Consider Investigation? > > > > 57% of all U.S. businesses use an investigative agency to verify they are >hiring the right employee: > credentials, drug screening, criminal records, employment >history, and past violent behavior. > You have a FEDERAL RIGHT to know who you are hiring and/or contracting >with. > 30-40 million people (1/3 - 1/4 of the workforce) have a criminal record >according to the U.S. Department of Labor. > YOU can be liable for NOT conducting background checks in certain >situations. > YOU can be liable for negligent hiring and retention, and for allowing >some conditions such as sexual harassment or stalking to occur unreported. > > 65%-75% of all merchandise losses were the result of employee theft. > > > > Why take chances...Call Now! 301 695-2662 > > > > > We offer affordable rates... > > Like everything else, there is a wide-range of fees charged >in the service-provider market. We recognize that each >client has unique requirements - whether they are of a security, >protective, or investigative nature, or a combination of >each. > > Since our first goal is to understand your needs, you will >only pay for actual services provided - as discussed. Our fee >schedule is based on time, personnel involved, degree of technical and > supervisory support, and the extent of case preparation, where >necessary. > > The projected cost is provided after a FREE initial >consultation. We believe this approach allows the maximum >degree of confidence and peace of mind. > > > Your Full Service Agency. . . > Tim May Investigations > P.O. Box 3081, Frederick, MD 21705 > Voice: 301.695.2662 or 800.723.7026 > Fax: 301.695.4009 / Email: TMayDetect at aol.com > > > You are Vistor Number 293 Since January 20, 1998 > --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From guy at panix.com Wed Oct 14 15:13:55 1998 From: guy at panix.com (Information Security) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 06:13:55 +0800 Subject: Gary Burnore vs. Earth (Was: Value of Annon. Remailers) Message-ID: <199810142147.RAA08216@panix7.panix.com> > From: Anonymous > > Information Security wrote: > > > Let us know when you have an original thought. > > Ad hominem often comes in handy... You are too touchy to be on the Internet, leave now! ;-) > > > From: Missouri FreeNet Administration > > > > > > Obviously, as defenders of this man's right to post material offensive > > > to Burnore, we too came under attack. > > > > One man's attack is another's defense. > > I'll have to remember that one. Some defense lawyers in Wyoming > might want to use it in their clients' trial for their "defense" > against that gay student. You are equating speech to physical violence. Not a good way to defend anonymizers. > Now about Gary Burnore's "defense" against the underaged daughter of > his girlfriend... Like, why should cypherpunks care? You said it's not causing you a connectivity problem. You are boring everyone for no known reason. > > > The point here is that what little survives about this lunatic child > > > molester (he has even successfully had his North Carolina Sex Offender record > > > removed!),... > > > > Gee, why don't you ask North Carolina why, in writing? > > Irrelevant. The North Carolina website of registered sex offenders > was only the vehicle by which the truth about Gary Burnore's > existing conviction in California became known. Depublishing it in > NC on some technicality... What technicality? > which sentenced him to probation and required him to register > as a sex offender. I wonder if Pee Wee Herman had to register. > Perhaps the original whistleblower's e-mailed warnings led > or contributed to Burnore's arrest, and to the resulting > psychiatric treatment which may have protected future > potential victims. Just a bunch of nutters flaming each other endlessly. ---guy From Richard.Bragg at ssa.co.uk Thu Oct 15 06:48:13 1998 From: Richard.Bragg at ssa.co.uk (Richard.Bragg at ssa.co.uk) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 06:48:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Use encryption to foil spooks' data harvesting, says US statedept Message-ID: <8025669E.004B0866.01@seunt002e.ssa.co.uk> and how about some innocuous words/phases that might cause apoplexy i talk to the pillow (PLO) every night i was there doing ... with ..., i wish. was dead on his feet .... it goes on. I like the encryption bit. Season your conversations with encryption and they won't find the wood for the trees. Who actually needs encryption in this case. Everyone can just put the word encryption into every conversation every other sentence. Miles of recording tape, (bytes of memory, whatever) just stuffed with inane conversation with a few select phrases. leif at imho.net on 15/10/98 14:20:26 To: Richard Bragg/UK/SSA_EUROPE cc: Subject: Re: Use encryption to foil spooks' data harvesting, says US statedept GOOD that did not bounce... Over the last few days my imho mail bounced.. mostly from some DNS, and mail server problems since I made some changes... (at my office who is at this point my mail hub... hehe it is fun to be the SA) OK words or phrases that can be used. Death Kill Destroy ENCRYPTION President Vice President First Lady Bomb dead maim hate if used correctly missile ( I am sure it is in the list if used correctly ) Nerve gas lets see should I go on or do you have the idea.. Here is a hint... I was talking with a friend one day a computer geek himself and we mentioned the word encryption and started talking about said stuff... Well after that word was aid we here a clicking type noise in the background??? HUMMMMMMMMM we change the subject and after some time talking it goes away we say encryption and it came back.... HUMMMMMMMM Go figure. - lhe From edsmith at IntNet.net Wed Oct 14 16:47:39 1998 From: edsmith at IntNet.net (Edwin E. Smith) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 07:47:39 +0800 Subject: Art Bell Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19981014191414.007eb6c0@mailhost.IntNet.net> Is Art Bell related to Jim Bell? The following was sent via LibertyWire: Bell Tolls No More Wired News Report http://www.wired.com/news/news/culture/story/15588.html http://www.artbell.com/artquits.html 2:25 p.m. 13.Oct.98.PDT Art Bell, the popular host of the late-night radio show "Coast To Coast AM" is turning off his microphone indefinitely. In Bell's Tuesday morning show he told listeners, "... a threatening terrible event tell you about. Because of that event, and a succession of other events, what you're listening to right now, is my final broadcast on the air." From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Oct 14 16:58:28 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 07:58:28 +0800 Subject: I saw the craziest thing last night... Message-ID: <199810142343.SAA14539@einstein.ssz.com> I wanted to share with you an experience perhaps worth contemplating... Around 8pm or so last nite I got hungry and the dogs looked at me with those big brown "Help me" eyes and off we trundle to the golden arches. I drive over the 5-6 blocks to N. Lamar and head north. It's about 2 miles or so max. As I get to Mickey Dee's I realize that there is a street bum in the road. There is S. bound traffic and he's about halfway across when I notice the cars are getting pretty close. Well about this time a vehicle with no lights (yet it's after dark) but yellow running lights (I believe that's illegal in this state) begins to continously sound its horn as it approaches the crosser. No apparent attempt to slow down or change lanes was made. The car ended up missing the guy by less than 3 ft. What was really a riot was it was an Austin Police car. Unfortunately I don't read well backward at night so I didn't get a vehicle id or a license so this qualifies as nothing more than another net rumor. It's pretty damn bad when the police resort to assault with a motor vehicle to control street people. Can the recent Supreme Court ruling allowing police to kill you in a high-speed chase as an innocent bystander to protect you from the perp with complete immunity be extended to pursuit of an unrepentant donut? When I was a kid it used to say "To Protect and Serve", not "To Protect or Kill". Isn't the point of a public servant to *serve* the people in a decent, respectful manner? If taken as a given then it's clear that public safety *always* takes precedence over 'catch the crook'. It's better to let the perp run through a neighborhood he's already going to go through and spend resources getting people into their homes and out of the way than it is to prove what a dairing-do bunch of local boys can do catching outlaws, but killing some of the local folks in the process. I appreciate the potential for hostages (even entire neighborhoods) but please explain how this ruling changes those instances in any way? Perhaps we need an amendment that provides a proviso on the rulings of the Supreme Court. Instead of these sorts of dicta having the weight of law, which it shouldn't have since it's not legislative, they should be required to be handed over to Congress for resolution via the normal law making process. This would limit the Supreme Court to interpretations of existing law (per the 9th & 10th Amendment). We definitely need an end to the post-Vietnam, post-Cold War testosterone rush we're living in now. Like it or not, the more initialy confrontational the government gets the more violence it will beget. And trying to justify those strategies by claiming a responce to a rise in violence only begs the question. Perhaps this realization is at least one reason that the equality of the federal level, state level, and individual civil rights has become so critical and so ignored. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Oct 14 17:08:43 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 08:08:43 +0800 Subject: Limited Impeachment Probes... Message-ID: <199810142358.SAA14635@einstein.ssz.com> The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: and no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present. Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This would seem to indicate that the only issue a federal prosecutor needs to be interested in is proving *some* illegal act took place. Not what that act may have actualy been, though describing it may be required. Once that is resolved the other legal aspects fall to the attorney general or district attorney in the appropriate region. With that in mind, its pretty interesting at all the money and effort that's been spent on nothing that is materialy relevant to the issue at hand. Though it is interesting that the issue of profit (running a business?) comes up in the consequences. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From sendus at earthcorp.com Wed Oct 14 18:10:15 1998 From: sendus at earthcorp.com (sendus at earthcorp.com) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 09:10:15 +0800 Subject: LUGGAGE, GARMENT BAGS, BREIFCASES, ETC. Message-ID: <199810150039.RAA24551@toad.com> Dear reader, We have just visited your website and became interested to develop a trading relationship with you company. We are a major manufacturer of a full range of luggage, bags, and trolleys.For full details mailto:sendus at earthcorp.com?Subject=BESTPLUS_IDUSTRIES_LTD. Thank you very much, Ms. Anges Lek, Managing Director From rms at gnu.org Wed Oct 14 18:10:41 1998 From: rms at gnu.org (Richard Stallman) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 09:10:41 +0800 Subject: overlapping aims -- cypherpunks/FSF (Re: Two? ways people could use your code) In-Reply-To: <199810141057.LAA28762@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: <199810150056.UAA07890@psilocin.gnu.org> Would you be interested in publishing GNUPG, and other GNU crypto utilities and libraries under GNU LGPL? We might use the LGPL for some of these libraries. The decision depends on the details of the situation for any particular library, so I don't want to try to decide in advance. From minow at pobox.com Wed Oct 14 18:15:48 1998 From: minow at pobox.com (Martin Minow) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 09:15:48 +0800 Subject: ATTN: BlackNet, sog's keys 4 sale In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Adam Back notes that the "Toto death thread" posting was signed using the "son of Gomer" Blacknet key that was broken by Paul Leyland (read through the past few days of the archives to get the context). Adam notes: "Implications? Others had CJs keys? Toto is someone other than CJ?" One other implication to consider: you might be able to attain semi-deniability by siging a message with a key that is breakable by an adversity with govermental resources (to use an euphamism) but not by an ordinary, presumably less motivated, cracker. I.e., when "they" arrest you for "speaking truth to kings," your lawyer claims that, because the signing key was weak, the government had forged the message and key in order to attack you for your otherwise legal political views. Of course, I'm probably just being paranoid. Martin Minow minow at pobox.com From mgering at ecosystems.net Wed Oct 14 18:28:11 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 09:28:11 +0800 Subject: DNA (fwd) Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A69@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com> Monozygotic [maternal] twins do have the same DNA. Hence they are identical. Genetically identical that is, there are non-genetic variations. Dizygotic [fraternal] twins do not. Fraternal twins can be visually nearly identical, but they are not genetically identical. Clones on the otherhand and have identical nuclear DNA, but are not necessarily identical because some early development processes rely on maternal genome material and not nuclear DNA, and depending on the cloning process they may have different mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA). Matt > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Choate [mailto:ravage at einstein.ssz.com] > > > But what about identical sib's. They all > > > have exactly the same DNA! > > Actualy identical twins will only share about 50% of their > DNA. They get 50% from each parent randomly. This means > that only about 25% of the DNA will match their sibling > from either parent. > > > Or a clone ;). > > This of course ignores transcription errors, environment > issues, etc. It is possible that even a clone would > have protein discrepencies which trace back to DNA strands > that end up different than the original source organism. As > the organism develops and ages these issues can become quite > important. This aspect of DNA matching has gotten the short > shift for sure. From rwww60 at email.sps.mot.com Wed Oct 14 18:35:04 1998 From: rwww60 at email.sps.mot.com (Marty Levy) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 09:35:04 +0800 Subject: DNA In-Reply-To: <000401bdf77a$fe720d00$932580d0@xasper8d> Message-ID: <3624C5C3.F563A50F@email.sps.mot.com> Because the fingerprint pattern is not genetically pre-determined. It is apparently part of the fetal development process. Minor environmental differences and random cell division differences will make the prints different even between identical twins. X wrote: > DNA of identical siblings is identical? I guess that makes sense, since > we're really split after conception... so explain why my brother has smooth > hands and fingers with almost no prints (lucky bastard!) and mine look like > mother teresa's face... (probably more now than before, eh?) > > X > From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Wed Oct 14 18:46:52 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 09:46:52 +0800 Subject: ATTN: BlackNet, sog's keys 4 sale In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199810150105.CAA02529@server.eternity.org> Martin Minow writes: > Adam Back notes that the "Toto death thread" > posting was signed using the "son of Gomer" Blacknet key that > was broken by Paul Leyland (read through the past few days of the > archives to get the context). Note the `son of gomez' key was _encrypted with_ the Blacknet key. Toto/anonymous was submitting his information for sale to Blacknet, so he used a `digital dead drop' -- encrypted with Blacknet's key and posted in a public place (cypherpunks), however he (it appears intentionally) used the weak 384 bit Blacknet key which Paul Leyland's announce claims was created by Larry Detweiler. Also note that Paul Leyland (and Alec Muffett, Arjen Lenstra, Jim Gillogly) factored that key a _long_ time ago, Jun 1995 (see the Date on the attachment of the announce to one of my earlier posts.) Perhaps you understood that, but what you wrote (son of Gomer Blacknet key?) was confusing. > Adam notes: "Implications? Others had CJs keys? Toto is someone > other than CJ?" > > One other implication to consider: you might be able to attain > semi-deniability by siging a message with a key that is breakable > by an adversity with govermental resources (to use an euphamism) > but not by an ordinary, presumably less motivated, cracker. This is similar to the time-delay crypto proposals made by Tim May and more lately David Wagner, (and some other authors who I forget, I think Schneier). One of the time-delay crypto protocols is to encrypt the information one wants to a time-delayed release of with weak encryption requiring the approximate amount of time you wish to delay to break. 'Course it doesn't work in general because it depends entirely on the resources of the attacker. Really you need a third party to publish private keys at delayed intervals. But for your suggested applicatoin -- plausible deniability for `speaking truth to kings' -- it works fine, because that's the point, plausible deniability against well resourced attackers (you are in trouble if well resourced attackers are interested in you anyway), but some value to the signature for low resourced attackers. Other ways to provide plausible deniability is to not sign public posts, and to use non-transferable signatures for private email. Adam From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Oct 14 18:46:58 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 09:46:58 +0800 Subject: DNA (fwd) Message-ID: <199810150122.UAA15016@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: Matthew James Gering > Subject: RE: DNA (fwd) > Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 18:04:32 -0700 > Monozygotic [maternal] twins do have the same DNA. Hence they are > identical. In my earlier post I got the naming on the type of twin incorrect, it shouldn't have been identical. I was trying to explain that aspect in the second paragraph. My mistake. > Clones on the otherhand and have identical nuclear DNA, but are not > necessarily identical because some early development processes rely on > maternal genome material and not nuclear DNA, and depending on the > cloning process they may have different mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA). I assume the mitochondrial differences are due to nucleus swapping, different line of extra-nuclear heritage? ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Wed Oct 14 19:43:36 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 10:43:36 +0800 Subject: plausible deniability (Re: ATTN: BlackNet, sog's keys 4 sale) In-Reply-To: <199810150105.CAA02529@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: <199810150200.DAA02609@server.eternity.org> I wrote discussing plausible deniability for public postings: > But for your suggested applicatoin -- plausible deniability for > `speaking truth to kings' -- it works fine, because that's the point, > plausible deniability against well resourced attackers (you are in > trouble if well resourced attackers are interested in you anyway), but > some value to the signature for low resourced attackers. > > Other ways to provide plausible deniability is to not sign public > posts, and to use non-transferable signatures for private email. I missed from this list of approaches for plausible deniability the canonical cypherpunks approach: post anonymously :-) The other way is perhaps to have shared identities, such as Monty Cantsin claimed to be, and such as perhaps Toto has been on occasion. Adam -- print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Message-ID: At 5:07 AM -0700 10/15/98, sendus at earthcorp.com wrote: >Dear reader, > >We have just visited your website and became interested to develop a >trading relationship with you company. > >We are a major manufacturer of a full range of luggage, bags, and >trolleys.For full details >mailto:sendus at earthcorp.com?Subject=BESTPLUS_IDUSTRIES_LTD. > >Thank you very much, > >Ms. Anges Lek, >Managing Director > Thank you for posting this to our list! We are very interested in specialized types of luggage. We seek suitcases and briefcases in which various items may be hidden. The usual items: money, papers, drugs, chemicals, and various pyrotechnic assemblies. Please describe your experience in fabricating such items, and please list some of your more famous clients. Warning: We have very high standards! The luggage we use now has been used to export the PGP source code disks to Finland and Holland, and such esteemed travellers as Pablo Escobar, Abu Nidal, and the Engineer have used the same products we use. We look forward to your reply. --Asama bin May, Director of Delivery Operations, World Liberation Front From edsmith at IntNet.net Wed Oct 14 21:34:48 1998 From: edsmith at IntNet.net (Edwin E. Smith) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 12:34:48 +0800 Subject: LUGGAGE, GARMENT BAGS, BREIFCASES, ETC. In-Reply-To: <199810150039.RAA24551@toad.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19981015000807.007e6a40@mailhost.IntNet.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Slow night for ya, eh Tim? I wonder why people waste keystrokes on this crap (like I am). How's the survivalist thing going? Don't you live out there near Taft. Any thought on the recent ATF raid? In Liberty Edwin At 07:58 PM 10/14/98 -0700, you wrote: >At 5:07 AM -0700 10/15/98, sendus at earthcorp.com wrote: >>Dear reader, >> >>We have just visited your website and became interested to develop a >>trading relationship with you company. >> >>We are a major manufacturer of a full range of luggage, bags, and >>trolleys.For full details >>mailto:sendus at earthcorp.com?Subject=BESTPLUS_IDUSTRIES_LTD. >> >>Thank you very much, >> >>Ms. Anges Lek, >>Managing Director >> > >Thank you for posting this to our list! > >We are very interested in specialized types of luggage. We seek suitcases >and briefcases in which various items may be hidden. The usual items: >money, papers, drugs, chemicals, and various pyrotechnic assemblies. > >Please describe your experience in fabricating such items, and please list >some of your more famous clients. > >Warning: We have very high standards! The luggage we use now has been used >to export the PGP source code disks to Finland and Holland, and such >esteemed travellers as Pablo Escobar, Abu Nidal, and the Engineer have used >the same products we use. > >We look forward to your reply. > >--Asama bin May, Director of Delivery Operations, World Liberation Front > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQA/AwUBNiV1JkmNf6b56PAtEQK5ywCggnfERwJiLn58xXzHKYtKXB3skNAAnjOy kTzcFy0QtrJz9KT5Heuzcq3w =iNaM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- When freedom is outlawed.......Only outlaws will be free! If cryptography is outlawed, pomz pvumbxt xjmm ibwf dszquphsbqiz. Fun! Fast! Revealing! Try "The World's Smallest Political Quiz" at: http://www.self-gov.org/quiz.html IS AIDS A GOVERNMENT/DRUG COMPANY HOAX? http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/index.htm When you blame others, you give up your power to change. Dr. Robert Anthony Libertarian Party of Hillsborough County, FL http://home.tampabay.rr.com/lphc When a place gets crowded enough to require ID's, social collapse is not far away. It is time to go elsewhere. The best thing about space travel is that it made it possible to go elsewhere. Lazarus Long From bill.stewart at pobox.com Thu Oct 15 01:03:21 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 16:03:21 +0800 Subject: Fwd: Strom Thurmond Drafts Bill Prohibiting Telegraph Porn Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981015003439.008c35b0@idiom.com> Strom Thurmond Drafts Bill Prohibiting Telegraph Porn http://www.theonion.com/onion3408/telegraphporn.html Strom Thurmond Drafts Bill Prohibiting Telegraph Porn WASHINGTON, DC--Contending that morse-coded descriptions of improperly petticoated young ladies are undermining the morals of American boys yet in short pants, U.S. Sen. Strom Thurmond (R-SC) proposed legislation Monday banning telegraph porn. "My friends, this revolutionary new 'Tele-graph' technology, by which messages are transmitted across vast distances via cable wire, is indeed a wondrous device," Thurmond told fellow members of the Senate. "But certain telegraphers--most corrupt and foul telegraphy men indeed--have debased Mr. Morse's code by using its ingenious dots and dashes to transmit porno-graphs describing flagrantly uncorseted womenfolk. I submit to you, gentlemen, that laws be passed to prevent the tele-graph device from becoming a machine of ill repute!" Thurmond's proposed legislation would establish stiff penalties for the transmission of certain obscene words and phrases along Western Union's telegram and telegraph wires, including "merry-widow," "bosom," and "underthings," as well as prohibit the use of the word "legs" instead of "limbs" when referring to the female anatomy. In certain contexts, the words"disheveled" and "heaving" would also be regarded as violations of the law, with perpetrators subject to fines of $50 or seven years hard labor on the proposed trans-American steam railroad. "As our nation recovers from the depredations and ruin of the recent War Of Northern Aggression, we must not permit the tele-graph to become the Devil's instrument," said Thurmond, 95. "Mr. Morse's messaging device must not be allowed to corrupt the hearts and minds of the Republic's youths!" [...more...] From whgiii at invweb.net Thu Oct 15 01:55:16 1998 From: whgiii at invweb.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 16:55:16 +0800 Subject: More Mickyshit via WebTV Message-ID: <199810150837.DAA116.67@geiger.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Forward from the SpyKing Mailing List. **************************************************************** Subject: Web TV owns your cache http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/zd/zd7.htm 10/12/98- WebTV is watching you From: Inter at ctive Week Online Microsoft Corp.'s WebTV Networks Inc. is quietly using a system-polling feature that can extrapolate subscriber information from each of its 450,000 users to better serve advertisers, said Steve Perlman, president of WebTV. The polling, which takes place nightly, uploads television and Web site viewing habits back to the system. The data makes it possible for WebTV to scrutinize not only what subscribers are watching, but also what they are clicking on or surfing away from, Perlman said. The polling results are offered to advertisers in an aggregate format; however, because results are grouped by ZIP code and contain demographic data compiled from WebTV viewers' polls, it can help them target ads more effectively. "We have a whole department that does nothing but look at the information. If someone is watching a car ad and clicks through, we can send them to the closest car dealership Web site," Perlman said. "The balance is providing advertisers with useful information while still protecting the subscribers." WebTV already protects its subscribers from Internet cookies - -- markers that track what sites people visit on the Web. "I don't think people understand the extent of this. It's recording everything they do. This is like having a video camera on them 24 hours a day," said Tom Rheinlander, an analyst at Forrester Research Inc. The polling will take a giant step into the realm of cable TV in 1999. Tele-Communications Inc. and other cable operators are expected to deploy more than 5 million set-top boxes that will ship with Windows CE and the Solo chip, bringing WebTV to cable. Today, WebTV informs its subscribers about the polling. Next year, Perlman said, customers will have the option of turning individual tracking on and off at will. This will allow advertisers to send ads to single households, not just ZIP codes. Sean Kaldor, vice president of International Data Corp.'s Consumer Device Research, said this could translate into greater ad revenue for Microsoft. "But it could also work out well for subscribers. They may get lower or free subscriptions for enabling this level of tracking," Kaldor said. "Is it going to happen? I doubt it, but it's a nice thought." By Karen J. Bannan **************************************************************** - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.openpgp.net Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: The best way to accelerate Windows is at escape velocity. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNiW0Lo9Co1n+aLhhAQEx6AP+IRmscdFFOxXJBi31Xjp6r/EJJHPsv2uq yaXc+s+30yElGUFh056wr8MPJndwz76zG5ZfsDQmEG4ok9w0zT/2xeC7kve6FX4t RImLpTQxpK9R6voxIhlmXk2nCy8IcrZ74zY16ckdKopmobTT7d9Ry6pgohXAyS75 fbRhHuixtUI= =dZbh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de Thu Oct 15 03:10:56 1998 From: mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de (Mok-Kong Shen) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 18:10:56 +0800 Subject: Use encryption to foil spooks' data harvesting, says US state dept In-Reply-To: <199810141617.SAA07987@replay.com> Message-ID: <3625CC35.6635727C@stud.uni-muenchen.de> Anonymous wrote: > > http://ds.state.gov/documents/protect.doc > �Many telecommunications transmissions will contain "key words", used to > identify information of interest to a third party. A key word can be the > name of a technology, product, project, or anything else which may identify > the subject of the transmission. The communications of criminals are certainly not billions bytes long but rather short and if they use 'key words' these can hardly be detected. This shows the nonsense of prohibiting use (or restricting export) of strong crypto by the general public and also the total ineffectivity of wiretapping etc. by the authority. A tiny history: During WWII there was a time when much commodities were smuggled between Hongkong and Macao. Letters were subject to opening by the Japanese occupation. Using 'key words' the smugglers of one city put little harmless looking announces in local newspapers which the complices at the other city could read the next day just as fast as if the information were sent via the post. This clearly shows that those attempting to push through crypto laws or regulations have either very low IQ or have high IQ but are in fact pursuing other (undisclosed) goals than what they publically claim (fighting criminality etc.). M. K. Shen From stevem at tightrope.demon.co.uk Thu Oct 15 03:11:14 1998 From: stevem at tightrope.demon.co.uk (Steve Mynott) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 18:11:14 +0800 Subject: pgp 6 src out Message-ID: <19981015104621.A7198@tightrope.demon.co.uk> hmmm pgp 6 source books have been released .. I wonder if there will be a pgp 6i unix version now? -- 1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott steve at tightrope.demon.co.uk http://www.pineal.com/ i was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and i did. i said i didn't know. -- mark twain From brownrk1 at texaco.com Thu Oct 15 03:51:02 1998 From: brownrk1 at texaco.com (Brown, R Ken) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 18:51:02 +0800 Subject: DNA (fwd) Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F84DD@MSX11002> Mathew James Gering wrote: >Monozygotic [maternal] twins do have the same DNA. Hence they >are identical. Genetically identical that is, there are non-genetic >variations. Dizygotic [fraternal] twins do not. Fraternal twins can >be visually nearly identical, but they are not genetically identical. That's right. "Monozygotic". I'd forgotten the word. >Clones on the otherhand and have identical nuclear DNA, but >are notnecessarily identical because some early development >processes rely on maternal genome material and not nuclear >DNA, and depending on the cloning process they may have >different mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA). Yep - if you mean Dolly-style clones derived from nuclear transplants into eggs. there was an interesting article in this week's "New Scientist" magazine (http://www.newscientist.com/ns/981010/contents.html) about the changing popular meaning of the word "clone". It was originally used for a group of plants produced vegetatively, like by cuttings or runners. Then it was extended to other organisms that can reproduce by division, like so-called protozoa Then to DNA replicated from one ancestor. And now to artificially cloned things like Dolly. If you got a Dolly-style clone made from you he or she wouldn't be your child, but your sibling and wouldn't be identical to you for all the reasons Matt pointed out. And of course because of different education/experience/upbringing et.c nto to mention the knowledge that they had been got in such a different way, which must do *something* to the psyche. (Anyone read "Cyteen" by CJ Cherryh?) Identical twins of course are a clone in the original sense, just as much as a variety of apples or a colony of bacteria are a clone. Really genetically identical, right down to the maternal contribution, because they drive from division at an early embryo stage (Sea-urchins can do it as well but insects can't...) If it were possible to re-potentiate adult cells and transform them into embryos (it works in plants - but then it has to because they can't move cells from one organ to another so any shoot tip has to be able to produce any kind of plant tissue) then we could make "real" twin-like clones of humans. If the search for the mysterious foetal stem cells pays off that might be possible (though why anyone would want to clone a human foetus is beyond me. Assume all the crude jokes about it being more fun to make another one using the traditional method). Ken Brown From nobody at replay.com Thu Oct 15 07:43:19 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 22:43:19 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199810151414.QAA04585@replay.com> >From Springfield poxmarked 9 October 1998: Subject: Springfield CypherPunks Physical Meeting FPP 10-5-98 Date: Every Saturday thru Thursday (except when it rains) Time: During 'REC' Hour. Place: Recreation Cages/The Hole (TM) Nuthouse Number Nine Looney Level 'Leven Springfield, Missouri Directions: Walk to the Cell Door. Turn around, squat down and put your hands behind you, and through the Slot In The Door. Stand up after Handcuffs are in place, turn around and wait for Guard to open Door. Step into hallway and wait for Pat-Down. (Smiling, Wisecracks & Hard-Ons not advised.) Follow first Inmate & Guard. There will be a short period for everyone to cop a few butts (cigarettes only, please), if they don't have any, light them and Shoot the Shit or Settle Old Scores before the Speakers begin to Rant & Rave or Blather Aimlessly. This Weeks Topics/Speakers Saturday: Where Are Everybody's Shoes? ~ MAY, T.C. Sunday: Does Anybody Remember What We Talked About Yesterday? ~ FroomNOSPAMkin, M. Monday: I *TOLD* You They (TM) Were Out To Get Us! ~ replay.com, N@ Tuesday: If They're So Certain This Prison is Secure, Then Why Won't They Provide Us With Blue Prints? ~ Geiger, Wm III Wednesday: This Isn't What I Had In Mind When I Helped Set the Prison Standards ~ Hallam-Baker, P. I'm Sure Glad I Put In A Side Door ~ Sameer, P. I Broke Out! (But I Can't Provide You With Any Details) ~ Zimmermann, P. How many Beatings Does It Take To Change A Prison Cell Light Bulb? ~ Costner, R. I Bet Bill Gates *Stole* Everyone's Shoes! ~ Hun, A.T. I *Love* This Prison! ~ Hettinga, R. Thursday: Prisoner #7-9-12-13-15-18-5, J. is a COCK SUCKER! ~ Warden Vulis, D. (KOTM) (DON'T FORGET YOUR SHOES!) From nobody at replay.com Thu Oct 15 07:43:25 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 22:43:25 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199810151408.QAA03975@replay.com> >From Springfield porkmarked 9 October 1998: Subject: Virtual Heist -- FPP #6 "I put Six Million into Hog Futures first thing this morning." Yesterday's Power Suit told his lunch companion, hoping to impress her. "Silicon Valley." Today's Power Skirt replied, almost leaning over to whisper, as if speaking loud enough for the Differently Dressed Deviate at the next table to hear would make E.F. Hutton roll over in His or Her grave. "That's where the Smart Money's going again." she continued, glancing nervously at the Differently Dressed Deviate whose Well-Tailored Suit seemed so out of place and ... well, Threatening ... in this Chicago Mercantile Exchange Lunch Room. Today's Power Skirt crossed her legs and casually admired her new Rolex as she told Yesterday's Power Suit, with a hint of disdain in her voice, "I just put *Twenty-Six Million Dollars* into ..." "Everybody Freeze!" screamed the Differently Dressed Deviate as i jumped to His or Her feet, pulling a Digital Uzi out of His or Her Well-Tailored Suit, which was a Cammo Montage of Colors Weaves & Cuts of the Power Suits of a wide span of Time & Generations. "Army of Dog!" Cammo Monty continued, sending a Shiver of Terror down the spines of the Lunch Crowd gathered today, as they were everyday, discussing (over their bag lunches) their movement of Other People's Millions into and out of various Money Market Accounts, et al. Cammo Monty pointed the Digital Uzi at the breast pocket of Yesterday's Power suit. "Let's see your Bank Book, Dick Face." Horrified, Yesterday's Power Suit shakily withdrew the Bank Book from his pocket, opened it and placed it on the table in front of him. "Just over three hundred bucks." the Army of Dog Digital Terrorist told the Lunch Crowd, causing much chuckling and snickering throughout the room. "Let's have it, Twat Face." Cammo Monty spun around pointing the Digital Uzi directly at the Bank Book of Today's Power Skirt, as she was trying to slip it out of her Briefcase, unnoticed. Reluctantly, she opened it and lay it on the table. "A hundred and twenty-eight dollars ..." Cammo Monty announced to the tittering Lunch Crowd, "and seventeen cents." i finished to a chorus of guffaws. Cammo Monty leapt onto his chair, and placed one foot on the table, waving His or Her Digital Uzi around the room, seeing the Fear (TM) in the Eyes of each Wanna Be Money Kontroller in the room - thinking that they might be the next to have their finances exposed. "Today's Power Skirt," Cammo Monty told the Lunch Crowd, "bought her Rolex on a Payment Plan," a shudder went through the room, "with a *ten percent*," i spit out the words as she began to moan, "down-payment." Today's Power skirt collapsed in tears ... "You Fucking Morons (TM)!" Cammo Monty screamed at the group, causing them to cringe in shame. "You are handling Other People's Money. It's not *your* money, you idiots, so Wake The Fuck Up (TM) and stop pretending that it is ... to yourself and to each other." Message-ID: >hmmm pgp 6 source books have been released .. I wonder if there will >be a pgp 6i unix version now? > >-- >1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott steve at tightrope.demon.co.uk http://www.pineal.com/ > > i was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and i did. i said i >didn't know. -- mark twain For those who want more details I browsed with DejaNews to find the original announcement: >PGP 6.0 Source Books Available >Author: > > Ed Stone >Email: > nospam at synernet.com >Date: > 1998/10/14 >Forums: > alt.privacy, alt.security.pgp, comp.security.pgp.discuss > > > >PGP again releases source code, fathering both free and international >versions, to the consternation of some bureaucrats and possibly someone >else. > >Printers, Inc. provides the following information: > >"Platform Independent $160.00 >Macintosh $160.00 >Windows $180.00 > >These are all multi-volume ring-bound books of source code. For each of >the above, there is a single-volume book of documentation at $25.00 each. > >In order to work, the Macintosh and Windows sets both require the >Platform Independent set. > >Shipping is by FedEx (or UPS if you prefer). It's expensive, but it >allows us to track the package. > >Attached is a sort of form letter on methods of payment. > >Yours, > >Gary Corduan >Printers Inc. Bookstore > > ------------------------------- > >As to payment, you could send us a check for the amount payable to >`Printers Inc. Bookstore' and addressed to > > 310 California Avenue > Palo Alto, California 94306 > >You should probably make the envelope attention to me (Gary Corduan) lest >it get lost in the shuffle (which _does_ happen, hence the other options >below which are probably preferable). > >If you have a credit card, you can fax the number to us at (650)327-7509. >The fax machine is in our accounting office, and we can keep your card >number on file for the next time you order. > >Alternatively, you can phone in your card number on our toll-free line at >1(800)742-0402 and ask for me. I am usually here on Mondays, Tuesdays, >Wednesdays, Fridays, and Saturdays. > >Whatever option you choose, please e-mail me and let me know (in case the >check gets lost, the fax machine jams, etc. etc.)." > >Email them at pibooks at best.com > >-- >-- >------------------------------- >Ed Stone >estone at synernet-robin.com >remove "-birdname" spam avoider >------------------------------- Steve Bryan Vendorsystems International email: sbryan at vendorsystems.com icq: 5263678 pgp fingerprint: D758 183C 8B79 B28E 6D4C 2653 E476 82E6 DA7C 9AC5 From stockadvisory79658ddlw at gte.net Thu Oct 15 23:00:36 1998 From: stockadvisory79658ddlw at gte.net (stockadvisory79658ddlw at gte.net) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 23:00:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: INTERNET STOCKWATCH! I S M R Message-ID: <196532478451.GAA74558@relay18.gte.net> Company: Internet Stock Market Resources Symbol: I S M R Price: 2 1/4 ($2.25/share) " I S M R is evolving into one of the internet's main financial web portals not unlike E*Trade in its future potential." As a featured stock in both Success and Opportunist magazines and as a content partner with Time Warner's Web TV I S M R is rated a "VERY STRONG BUY". For more information on I S M R go to: http://quicken.excite.com/investments/quotes plxII7. From frissell at panix.com Thu Oct 15 09:00:16 1998 From: frissell at panix.com (Duncan Frissell) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 00:00:16 +0800 Subject: Hollywood on How to Talk to FBI Agents In-Reply-To: <199810132308.SAA08748@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199810151526.LAA21810@mail1.panix.com> Was watching "One Tough Cop" last weekend starring the younger and less successful brothers of a couple of male leads. An NYC police drama filmed in Toronto. The otherwise "B" movie was enlivened by a somewhat less than sympathetic treatment of the two FBI agents who were leaning on "One Tough Cop." They wanted him to plant a bug on his childhood friend who was a member of a Sicilian social organization. The movie also featured two crack heads who raped and murdered a nun. The FBI agents got worse screen treatment than the crack heads. Our hero's chats with the Fibbies were always laced with strings of obscenities meant to convey to them that he did not intend to help them. The film showed that he did not suffer professional reversals because of his treatment of Fibbies. DCF From billh at ibag.com Thu Oct 15 09:21:54 1998 From: billh at ibag.com (William J. Hartwell) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 00:21:54 +0800 Subject: Who is next? (re Jim's subpoena) Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981015084148.00943940@mail.xroads.com> This ran through my mind this morning before I was totally awake. Maybe somebody can help me with the original author of this.... When they came for Kevin Mitnick I said nothing. After all he was a big time hacker and I wasn't a hacker so I did not speak up. When they came for Jim Bell I said nothing. He was a criminal and I am not a criminal so I didn't speak up. When they came for Toto I said nothing. Surely he was nuts and I am completely sane so I didn't speak up. When they came for Jim Choate I said nothing. He runs a cypherpunks mailing list and I don't manage any lists so I didn't speak up. When they come for me who will be left to speak up? This is a poor paraphrase of the original but I wonder if it is something that we may be saying here in the U.S. soon? -- William J. Hartwell (602)987-8436 Queencreek, Az. billh at ibag.com billh at interdem.com billh at hartwell.net From alan at clueserver.org Thu Oct 15 09:45:27 1998 From: alan at clueserver.org (Alan Olsen) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 00:45:27 +0800 Subject: Soccer Moms? In-Reply-To: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F84C8@MSX11002> Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Oct 1998, Brown, R Ken wrote: > > In the middle of an interesting article about digital cash, forwarded > here by Bob Hettinga, there was the line: > > > After all, the kind of soccer moms who elected Bill Clinton > > "Divided by a common language" as I am I genuinly don't know what that > means. And I can't even guess from context. I'd have expected a dig at > liberals or feminists or welfare recipients at that point; and I can't > work out what soccer has to do with it. > > Do mothers play soccer much in the USA? > > Football (as the 95% of the world's population that aren't either > English-speaking North Americans or else Rugby fans call the Beautiful > Game) is associated in my mind with young men, specifically working > class men. It's connotations are entirely macho, even violent. When a > big match is on men gather in pubs and bars and shout at TVs whilst > knocking back the lager. You avoid the centre of town if you don't want > to risk getting involved in a fight. People get *killed* at football > matches. That's pretty much true in every big city inthe world outside > North America (and Japan where the fans are polite). > > This honestly isn't a troll - I am in fact bewildered by the phrase. Basically the phrase refers to suburban housewives. (Mothers who have time to take their little sprogs to school soccer games and the like.) The image of suburban housewives getting involved in World Cup style brawls and rioting does have a certain appeal though. ]:> alan at ctrl-alt-del.com | Note to AOL users: for a quick shortcut to reply Alan Olsen | to my mail, just hit the ctrl, alt and del keys. From alan at clueserver.org Thu Oct 15 09:46:28 1998 From: alan at clueserver.org (Alan Olsen) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 00:46:28 +0800 Subject: "It's a Hardware Problem..." In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Oct 1998, Robert Hettinga wrote: > "Computer firewalls have always been dependent on software, which means > they are 'soft' and subject to manipulations," says Larry Dalton, manager > of Sandia's High Integrity Software Systems Engineering Department. "Our > device is hardware and is extremely difficult to break into. You have one > and only one chance in a million of picking exactly the right code compared > to a one in 10,000 chance, with many additional chances, in most software > firewalls. After one failed try, this new device mechanically shuts down > and can't be reset and reopened except by the owner." Sounds like a great denial of service attack. alan at ctrl-alt-del.com | Note to AOL users: for a quick shortcut to reply Alan Olsen | to my mail, just hit the ctrl, alt and del keys. From nospam at freedom.net Thu Oct 15 10:19:43 1998 From: nospam at freedom.net (nospam at freedom.net) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 01:19:43 +0800 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Commerce_Undersecretary_William_Reinsch_defends_the_govern?==?iso-8859-1?Q?ment=92s_encryption_policy?= Message-ID: <001a01bdf858$8c15eea0$1901a8c0@austin.zks.net> I especially like the part about DEEPCRACK and how because EFF knew that the message was in English that it doesn't really prove that the FBI can break 56bit DES encryption. --------------------------------------------------- http://www.infosecuritymag.com/sept/q%26a.htm Q & A WITH WILLIAM REINSCH Crypto�s Key Man Commerce Undersecretary William Reinsch defends the government�s encryption export policy�even though it puts him "in the hot seat." BY ANDY BRINEY Q: How would you characterize current U.S. cryptographic export policies? A: The President has consistently articulated a policy of balance�between privacy, electronic commerce, law enforcement and national security. We believe all four elements are important, and we�re trying to produce a policy that takes all of them into account. But is it really possible to balance all these issues at the same time? We think so. I�m not sure the industry agrees with us, and it�s not easy. The privacy issues involved have been discussed for 50 years in debates about wiretaps and law enforcement devices for intercepting phone conversations. Encryption poses some of the same issues: privacy vs. law enforcement. The country has come to terms with wiretaps over the years, and people still use phones�even though, with proper court orders, there�s the possibility that law enforcement could be listening in. We think we�ll be able to arrive at the same common public understanding with encryption. But there�s no question that getting there will be difficult. What kind of time frame are we looking at? Is the administration looking at releasing a "final" crypto export policy within the next three months? Six months? A year? The policy I articulated�one of balance�is based on implementations in the marketplace. We expect the market to develop the products we like, and we expect that there will be a demand for the products. We want to work through the market. What that means is, if the market turns in unexpected directions, we have to be ready to re-evaluate our policy. So I don�t think you�re going to see a "final" version�ever. As long as the market moves and changes, our policy will be tweaked to accommodate what�s happening. In the short run, however, the policy we are currently operating under expires January 1. We�ve told industry we expect to revisit that policy this fall, and make judgments about what�s going to happen after January 1. So we�ve committed to trying to come out with the next update, hopefully by Labor Day, although my expectation is it may take a little longer than that. Can you be more explicit about what this policy might entail? No. Because we�re not there yet. What has been the industry�s reaction to current policy? Industry has been quite active, particularly with submitting key-recovery plans. We provide more liberalized export controls for companies that provide plans by which they will build key-recovery products. We�ve approved some 55 plans now�with a few more pending. I don�t think they�re doing it just because the government asked them to; they�re doing it because they see a market. In addition, in the spring the FBI and the Justice Department asked companies to come in to see if a technical solution could be found to deal with these issues. Companies have done that, too. At the same time, of all the economic sectors in the country, this one�s moving the fastest. There�s a real danger that, if we can�t get our policy together and out there in the marketplace soon, we could be overtaken by events overseas. Recently, a panel was charged with developing a Federal Information Processing Standard (FIPS). One of this group�s directives was to design a federal computer security system that includes back doors�which they failed to do. What�s next for this panel, and for this issue? My understanding is that, at the request of a majority of the panel�s members, the Secretary [of Commerce] has extended their charter to the end of the year. The Secretary received a letter from the panel in which the majority felt they would be able to complete their work with additional time. However, they also said they weren�t entirely confident that at the end of the day it would be unanimous product. Even if it were possible to do key escrow on the scale the government is asking, would anyone willingly buy such a product knowing that stronger encryption products without back doors are available? To prevent this, wouldn�t it be necessary to criminalize the domestic possession of stronger crypto? First of all, we haven�t supported the latter. Second, I think you need to look at this problem in pieces, not as a unitary problem. The pieces are: stored data, data in transit (such as e-mail) and voice communications. I would argue that with the first two of those pieces, there�s going to be substantial demand in the market for the kinds of products that are helpful from our standpoint. For stored data, we see a demand for key recovery�we�re not using the term "key escrow" much anymore. Particularly in business and financial institutions, there�s a demand for recovery products, because people want to be able to access employees� data in the event of accidents or other such things. As for e-mail, the most significant development there was the announcement nine companies made in early July. Each of these companies submitted an application for a so-called "door bell" technology, which connotes a variety of means of recovery at the server level. What we see developing here is growing use of network encryption�as opposed to encryption at the PC�for secure transmission of messages. Employers will want that, for employee control purposes. From the standpoint of law enforcement, that�s a happy development, because it creates two "third point" locations�the sender�s server and the recipient�s server�that are physically separate from the sender and recipient of the message. These points are often controlled by third parties, namely contractors running the system. So, with the proper court order, law enforcement could go to those third points and obtain plain-text access. What was your reaction to the Electronic Frontier Foundation�s cracking of DES in July? I think you have to contrast that situation, which was reasonably artificial, with the reality of law enforcement. In this case, it took a decent amount of resources to crack a specific message that, I believe, the people doing the crack knew was in English, and knew was one message. Now, if you�re the FBI, think about that. From their standpoint, we�re talking about traffic that isn�t so easily identifiable. It might be a long stream of encrypted material that they�re trying to intercept in real time; they don�t necessarily know what language it�s in; they don�t necessarily know what part of the message is of interest to them; and they don�t know whether it�s words or text or graphics or what it might be. Telling the FBI that, under those circumstances, you can buy an expensive computer and crack one message in 56 hours�that�s not a lot of comfort to the FBI. And it doesn�t seem to me that it should make anybody in the private sector nervous about the security of 56-bit products. If that�s the best we�re going to get�56 hours for a single message decrypted by equipment most people don�t have and aren�t ever going to have�that doesn�t exactly mean that it�s an unsecured product. But it does illustrate a trend. As time passes, it�s taking fewer and fewer resources and less and less time to crack the same algorithm. In 1997, it took three months. In February, it took 39 days. Now, it�s one $250,000 computer and 56 hours. Who�s to say in two more months it won�t be cracked in an even shorter amount of time with even fewer resources? You can project that curve, and maybe you�ll be right. The immediate effect of that is that it�s going to accelerate a trend that�s already begun anyway, which is toward 128-bit products. I think that�s a trend that would have occurred regardless of this particular event. The technical people I�ve talked to say that once you get beyond 90 or 100 bits, it doesn�t make all that much difference because you�re talking about brute-force cracking times that are beyond any real time that you can imagine. Obviously, the faster you can crack 56 bits, the faster you can crack 90 or 100. But since each successive bit doubles your time, by the time you get to 90, I think you�re into thousands of years... But the question is, assuming that 90 is safe, wouldn�t it then be prudent to have a policy that allows uniform export of 90-bit products without special dispensation? I don�t think we expect to set bit-length requirements. We believe in the marketplace deciding what is secure and what is not. The government is not going to say that 90 is good or 128 is good� But right now it�s saying 56 is sufficient. No, the government is saying that 56 can be exported under certain circumstances. What the government has also said is that if it�s a key-recovery product, it can be exported with any bit length without constraint. And that�s what we would prefer to focus on�to tell people, if you�re product has recovery features, bit length doesn�t matter. That�s the incentive. What happens if a key-recovery standard cannot be agreed upon? Is there a fallback plan? We are doing everything we can to encourage people to find it acceptable and to get the market to move in that direction. We think that�s what�s happening. So I don�t think we�ve developed a Plan B in that sense. Can you discuss progress on the Advanced Encryption Standard (AES)? No. I�m not particularly involved in that. I think you need to talk to some NIST or NSA people about that. ALSO Q: You seem to be the government�s point man on encryption policy issues. Is that a function of your office, your background, or what? A: "Designated victim" is the term we use [laughs]. Actually, it�s a function of the office. An integral component of our policy involves export controls, and the BXA [Bureau of Export Administration] administers export controls of dual-use items for the government. So I end up in the hot seat. EDITOR�S NOTE: Next month, Bruce Schneier, author of the definitive text Applied Cryptography, will respond to Undersecretary Reinsch�s comments in a special Word in Edgewise article. From rah at shipwright.com Thu Oct 15 10:31:01 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 01:31:01 +0800 Subject: Evans on tradition, common law & Hayek Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 11:43:25 EDT Reply-To: Hayek Related Research Sender: Hayek Related Research From: Stephen Carson Subject: Evans on tradition, common law & Hayek To: HAYEK-L at MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU M. Stanton Evans has an excellent discussion of tradition & common law as it relates to liberty & consent in his _The Theme is Freedom: Religion, Politics, and the American Tradition_, (1994, Regnery). Chapter 5 of that book, "The Uses of Tradition", is particularly helpful. From that chapter... [emphases his] "The reason for this libertarian effect is that the common law created a tremendous obstacle to the *workings of unchecked power in the state*. For if the law grew up by way of custom and tradition, over great intervals of time, then it was not the work of any individual and could not be changed at anyone's discretion. It was outside the ordinary workings of the process, pre-existed the powers of the day, and would survive them. This made it superior to the will of any king, or group of legislators, and gave it independent status." -p. 80 "...the common law cannot be made over by the decree of any given individual, group, or even generation. It consists instead of the accretion, over time, of ways of thinking and acting that many generations have accepted. When you think about it - and the common lawyers did - this is a *species of consent*. It means that people are *voluntarily choosing to do things in a certain way, without any central direction or design*. Another common lawyer of the Stuart era, John Davies, put it as follows: 'The common law of England is nothing else but the common law and custom of the realm... A custom taketh beginning and groweth to perfection in this manner; when a reasonable act once done is found to be good and beneficial to the people, and agreeable to their nature and disposition, then they do use and practice it again and again, and so by often iteration and multiplication of the act it becometh a custom... customary law is the most perfect and most excellent, and without comparison the best, to make and preserve a commonwealth. For the written laws that are made by either the edict of princes, or by council of estates [i.e., Parliament] are imposed on the subject before any trial or probation made, whether the same be fit and agreeable to the nature and disposition of the people, or whether they will breed any inconvenience or no. But a custom doth never become a law to bind the people, until it had been tried time out of mind...'" -p. 88 "This notion of *custom as consent*, in contrast to top-down command, is among the key ideas of the free society. With the statements of Davies and Wilson, in fact, we approach the modern exposition of this point by Hayek, who devotes a series of penetrating essays to the subject. The distinctive features of a libertarian regime, Hayek argues, is that it permits the organization of society by free decision, and that this results in an ordered system that no single person or even group of people has designed, and that could not have been created by top-down methods. An obvious example is the development of language - a structure that has grown up over a considerable course of time, invented by nobody in particular, but used conveniently by many." -p. 89-90 I had never quite connected this aspect of consent in with the common law. This makes the connection between spontaneous order, custom, time & consent much clearer to me. Stephen W. Carson "Premature optimization is the root of all evil" -Donald Knuth --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From orowley at imaginemedia.com Thu Oct 15 10:47:07 1998 From: orowley at imaginemedia.com (Owen Rowley) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 01:47:07 +0800 Subject: Who is next? (re Jim's subpoena) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981015084148.00943940@mail.xroads.com> Message-ID: <36262FD7.C8BEA9AD@imaginemedia.com> William J. Hartwell wrote: > This is a poor paraphrase of the original but I wonder if it is something > that we may be saying here in the U.S. soon? perhaps the answer is to *NOT BE* in the U.S. when it's being said. 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Full instructions on unsubscribing are in every issue of Eureka! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- From fisherm at tce.com Thu Oct 15 11:08:42 1998 From: fisherm at tce.com (Fisher Mark) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 02:08:42 +0800 Subject: FW: IAB statement on "private doorbell" encryption Message-ID: <2C396693FBDED111AEF60000F84104A721C01E@indyexch_fddi.indy.tce.com> > From: The IAB[SMTP:iab at ietf.org] > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 1998 9:35 AM > Subject: IAB statement on "private doorbell" encryption > > > > The IAB and IESG are concerned by published descriptions of the > "private doorbell" approach to resolving the encryption controversy. > Essentially, the private doorbell requires that encryption and > decryption be done at a gateway, rather than at an end system; see > http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/779/govtaff/policy/paper/paper_index.html > for one description. This is in conflict with the "end-to-end" > principle, a fundamental tenet of the Internet architecture. While > there is certainly a place for gateway-based encryption in some > circumstances, to require it in all places (and to exclude end-to-end > encryption) would warp the protocol structure. Furthermore, it > offers a significantly lower level of security, in that there is > no longer protection against inside attacks, which by all accounts > are a serious threat. > > In addition, putting all security at the gateway ignores the need > for different levels of protection in different situations. For > some applications, encryption to the gateway may suffice. Others > may require encryption and cryptographic authentication of the > individual machine or even user. Should a strong encryption > algorithm be used, or a very efficient one? It is very difficult > to make these decisions anywhere but the end-system. But the > "private doorbell" scheme would block deployment of such fine-grained > protection. > > ========================================================== Mark Leighton Fisher Thomson Consumer Electronics fisherm at indy.tce.com Indianapolis, IN "Their walls are built of cannon balls, their motto is 'Don't Tread on Me'" From fisherm at tce.com Thu Oct 15 11:10:44 1998 From: fisherm at tce.com (Fisher Mark) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 02:10:44 +0800 Subject: FW: Protocol Action: OpenPGP Message Format to Proposed Standard Message-ID: <2C396693FBDED111AEF60000F84104A721C01F@indyexch_fddi.indy.tce.com> > From: The IESG[SMTP:iesg-secretary at ietf.org] > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 1998 10:27 AM > Cc: RFC Editor; Internet Architecture Board; ietf-open-pgp at imc.org > Subject: Protocol Action: OpenPGP Message Format to Proposed Standard > > > > The IESG has approved the Internet-Draft 'OpenPGP Message Format' > as a Proposed Standard. This > document is the product of the An Open Specification for Pretty Good > Privacy Working Group. > > The IESG contact persons are Jeffrey Schiller and Marcus Leech. > > > > Technical Summary > > This document defines the formats used by "Phil's Pretty Good > Privacy" otherwise known as PGP. > > Working Group Summary > > After serious discussion the working group came to consensus on this > document. > > Protocol Quality > > The formats used here are the result of a second generation > engineering effort to define an efficient, one pass format for > representing information encrypted or signed with PGP. They were > reviewed by Jeffrey I. Schiller for the IESG. > > > Note to RFC Editor: Please add the following as an IESG Note: > > This document defines many tag values, yet it doesn't describe a > mechanism for adding new tags (for new features). Traditionally the > Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) handles the allocation of > new values for future expansion and RFCs usually define the procedure > to be used by the IANA. However there are subtle (and not so subtle) > interactions that may occur in this protocol between new features and > existing features which result in a significant reduction in over all > security. Therefore this document does not define an extension > procedure. Instead requests to define new tag values (say for new > encryption algorithms for example) should be forwarded to the IESG > Security Area Directors for consideration or forwarding to the > appropriate IETF Working Group for consideration. > > ========================================================== Mark Leighton Fisher Thomson Consumer Electronics fisherm at indy.tce.com Indianapolis, IN "Their walls are built of cannon balls, their motto is 'Don't Tread on Me'" From nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl Thu Oct 15 11:15:57 1998 From: nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl (HyperReal-Anon) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 02:15:57 +0800 Subject: Commerce Undersecretary William Reinsch defends the government's encryption policy Message-ID: nospam at freedom.net wrote: > > http://www.infosecuritymag.com/sept/q%26a.htm > Q & A WITH WILLIAM REINSCH > > Reinsch: What the government has also said is that if it's a > key-recovery product, it can be exported with any bit length > without constraint. And that's what we would prefer to focus > on -- to tell people, if you're product has recovery features, > bit length doesn't matter. Ah, something we can finally agree upon: "if your product has recovery features, bit length doesn't matter" (it's insecure). From rah at shipwright.com Thu Oct 15 11:20:15 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 02:20:15 +0800 Subject: DCSB: Risk Management is Where the Money Is; Trust in Digital Commerce Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rah at pop.sneaker.net Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 11:01:58 -0400 To: dcsb at ai.mit.edu, dcsb-announce at ai.mit.edu From: Robert Hettinga Subject: DCSB: Risk Management is Where the Money Is; Trust in Digital Commerce Cc: Dan Geer , Terry Symula , "Heffan, Ira" , Roland Mueller Sender: bounce-dcsb at ai.mit.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Robert Hettinga -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- The Digital Commerce Society of Boston Presents Dan Geer Senior Strategist and VP, CertCo, Inc. Risk Management is Where the Money Is Tuesday, November 3rd, 1998 12 - 2 PM The Downtown Harvard Club of Boston One Federal Street, Boston, MA The focus of "security" research today is the study of "trust management," i.e., the study of how trust is created, propagated, circumscribed, stored, exchanged, accounted for, recalled and adjudicated in an electronic world. This is both natural and mature -- natural because security is a means and not an end, mature because security technology must differentiate along cost-benefit lines. All the security technology that you can buy today enables some aspect of trust management and the academic and entrepreneurial segments alike are busy supplying many novel ways to propagate trust. They have it all wrong. Trust management is definitely exciting, but like most exciting ideas it is not important. What is important is risk management, the sister, the dual of trust management. And it is risk management that is the part of financial services that will drive the security world from here on out whether you realize it or not. Dan Geer is VP and Senior Strategist for CertCo, Inc., market leader in digital certification for electronic commerce. Dan has been at a number of security oriented startups in the Boston area since leaving academia where he was Manager of Systems Development for MIT's Project Athena. He holds a S.B. in EE/CS from MIT, and a Sc.D. in Biostatistics from Harvard. He was deeply involved in medical computing for fifteen years. A frequent speaker, popular teacher and member of several professional societies, he has been active in USENIX for some years at the Board level. His recent publications include "The Web Security Sourcebook" (Wiley, 1997) and the security chapter in Leebaert's "The Future of the Electronic Marketplace" (MIT, 1998). This meeting of the Digital Commerce Society of Boston will be held on Tuesday, November 3, 1998, from 12pm - 2pm at the Downtown Branch of the Harvard Club of Boston, on One Federal Street. The price for lunch is $32.50. This price includes lunch, room rental, various A/V hardware, and the speaker's lunch. ;-). The Harvard Club *does* have dress code: jackets and ties for men (and no sneakers or jeans), and "appropriate business attire" (whatever that means), for women. Fair warning: since we purchase these luncheons in advance, we will be unable to refund the price of your lunch if the Club finds you in violation of the dress code. We need to receive a company check, or money order, (or, if we *really* know you, a personal check) payable to "The Harvard Club of Boston", by Saturday, October 31st, or you won't be on the list for lunch. Checks payable to anyone else but The Harvard Club of Boston will have to be sent back. Checks should be sent to Robert Hettinga, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, Massachusetts, 02131. Again, they *must* be made payable to "The Harvard Club of Boston", in the amount of $32.50. Please include your e-mail address, so that we can send you a confirmation If anyone has questions, or has a problem with these arrangements (We've had to work with glacial A/P departments more than once, for instance), please let us know via e-mail, and we'll see if we can work something out. Upcoming speakers for DCSB are: December Joseph DeFeo TBA January Ira Heffan Internet Software and Business Process Patents February Roland Mueller European Privacy Directive We are actively searching for future speakers. If you are in Boston on the first Tuesday of the month, and you would like to make a presentation to the Society, please send e-mail to the DCSB Program Commmittee, care of Robert Hettinga, . For more information about the Digital Commerce Society of Boston, send "info dcsb" in the body of a message to . If you want to subscribe to the DCSB e-mail list, send "subscribe dcsb" in the body of a message to . We look forward to seeing you there! Cheers, Robert Hettinga Moderator, The Digital Commerce Society of Boston -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5 iQEVAwUBNiYOVsUCGwxmWcHhAQFxUggAjVPIS2STdjusV7TZJd/VrrA9NOzw12al 9k9wFsEcWwvknad85QCiTY1Vkwa7hCakuH9YkU9BZlWLgNhpm0tBTZ/nkMjGRaaX 3V8d89CfjaXoMfxYEmL95Cm0HEND5hUFoSmlWPQUjvThcQwrbWzXubzsmPn0Jd7M kqUrp/oFmqv4XYjgFWQxIz6va4dB772fTKCCmGJankNYh/ho+/HWm0pasymTzl/b akPKYSnTgCNQrUqHy6zSJJiinrAWQkPYcEinWktnT/TJGU1DFuxciJzQhu1c1eVr 8xtkgPn86Rmz4HXKnLRRm+lTWOKAo6+IDR4N1vR38pCiHx4ySIQ+PQ== =/Xht -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to "dcsb-request at ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help". --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From hua at teralogic-inc.com Thu Oct 15 11:52:12 1998 From: hua at teralogic-inc.com (Ernest Hua) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 02:52:12 +0800 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Commerce_Undersecretary_William_Reinsch_defends_the_go?==?iso-8859-1?Q?vernment=92s_encryption_policy?= Message-ID: <014701bdf868$62b41c20$4164a8c0@mve21> > We want to work through the market. What that means is, if the market > turns in unexpected directions, we have to be ready to re-evaluate our > policy. So I don't think you're going to see a "final" version > ever. As long as the market moves and changes, our policy will be > tweaked to accommodate what's happening. In other words ... If we don't approve, it's time to go back to ITAR and 40-bits. > I don't think they're doing it just because the government asked them > to; they're doing it because they see a market. In addition, in the > spring the FBI and the Justice Department asked companies to come in > to see if a technical solution could be found to deal with these > issues. Companies have done that, too. It must be nice to be able to pressure and threaten companies behind the scenes and then come out to the public to say that they are "cooperating" or "volunteering". > At the same time, of all the economic sectors in the country, this > one's moving the fastest. There's a real danger that, if we can't get > our policy together and out there in the marketplace soon, we could be > overtaken by events overseas. In other words, "all this time we've been denying that there was overseas competition, well, we were lying through our teeth." "And that thing with the EU complaining about Echelon and the Germans trying to head up the Europeans to bust ITAR/EAR ..." Oops! Can't say the "E" word in public because "nobody" knows about that! > I think you have to contrast that situation, which was reasonably > artificial, with the reality of law enforcement. In this case, it took > a decent amount of resources to crack a specific message that, I > believe, the people doing the crack knew was in English, and knew was > one message. Must be nice not having real technologists pointing out blatant flaws/lies in your public statments. > Now, if you're the FBI, think about that. From their standpoint, we're > talking about traffic that isn't so easily identifiable. It might be a > long stream of encrypted material that they're trying to intercept in > real time; they don't necessarily know what language it's in; they > don't necessarily know what Sure ... if the FBI were really stupid ... and the FBI didn't really want to do any homework, but instead, would rather have NSA's dictionaries do the walking ... encryption would be a real bitch, wouldn't it? Even 40-bit. Ern From jya at pipeline.com Thu Oct 15 11:53:41 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 02:53:41 +0800 Subject: FBI Affidavit on Ex-NSA Cryptanalyst Message-ID: <199810151821.OAA23576@dewdrop2.mindspring.com> We offer the FBI's 23-page affidavit of charges against David Sheldon Boone, ex-NSA cryptanalyst who allegedly passed top secret SIGINT, EW and nuclear targeting plans to the Soviets: http://jya.com/dsb100998.htm Tantalizing hints on means and methods, quoting the affidavit of the FBI agent in charge: On one occasion, "Igor" [Soviet agent] told BOONE that the KGB/SVRR had access to United States Signals Directive (USSID) Zero, which was an index of all other USSIDs, and from this index IGOR asked BOONE to obtain specific USSIDs. I have ascertained that USSIDs are classified NSA publications for use in providing Signals Intelligence (SIGINT) support to the United States military. BOONE told the OA [FBI Operational Asset posing as Soviet agent to set up Boone] that he had given "Igor" a photocopy of an NSA document entitled "United States Signals Intelligence Directive (USSID) 514," dated May 6, 1988. BOONE told the OA that this USSID was unusual because it was one of few USSIDs to be classified TOP SECRET rather than SECRET. BOONE told the OA that USSID 514 was not widely disseminated but that one copy had been at USAFS Augsburg. And more on Boone's training and duties in cryptanalysis at Fort Meade and in Germany. Bad Ausburg is the location of one of the NSA intercept stations for the Echelon program is it not? From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Thu Oct 15 13:01:02 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 04:01:02 +0800 Subject: mail2fax remailer capability? Message-ID: <199810151914.UAA08343@server.eternity.org> I am noticing the odd free email2fax "your fax was sent successfully" report in the dud messages sent to (the non-replyable) nobody at remailer.ch. Warming to the heart that -- anonymous fax. Now I am wondering what the coverage is like on fax gateways -- it clearly only is going to work in places where there are free local calls, for numbers counting as local to the gateway. Just thinking it would be kind of nice if one could send a message To: +1.234.567.891-mail2fax at anon.lcs.mit.edu via mixmaster and have it sort out the delivery if possible to mail2fax gateways operating with local calls in that area code. (Analogously perhaps to the auto USENET posting from those remailers with this option turned on -- that is either direct (remailer posts) or indirect (forwarded to a mail2news gateway)). Has anyone come across any mail2fax site which tries to keep track of other free fax services and forward faxes to one in the right area? ('Course if we could get some damn working ecash, we could fax it anywhere -- sender pays:-) Next stage -- anonymous voice mail delivered via voice modem / soundcard, all via mixmaster, that would be nice! Adam From usura at replay.com Thu Oct 15 13:48:15 1998 From: usura at replay.com (Alex de Joode) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 04:48:15 +0800 Subject: mail2fax remailer capability? In-Reply-To: <199810151914.UAA08343@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: <199810152017.WAA08543@replay.com> www.tpc.int > > > I am noticing the odd free email2fax "your fax was sent successfully" > report in the dud messages sent to (the non-replyable) > nobody at remailer.ch. > > Warming to the heart that -- anonymous fax. > > Now I am wondering what the coverage is like on fax gateways -- it > clearly only is going to work in places where there are free local > calls, for numbers counting as local to the gateway. > > Just thinking it would be kind of nice if one could send a message > > To: +1.234.567.891-mail2fax at anon.lcs.mit.edu > > via mixmaster and have it sort out the delivery if possible to > mail2fax gateways operating with local calls in that area code. > (Analogously perhaps to the auto USENET posting from those remailers > with this option turned on -- that is either direct (remailer posts) > or indirect (forwarded to a mail2news gateway)). > > Has anyone come across any mail2fax site which tries to keep track of > other free fax services and forward faxes to one in the right area? > > ('Course if we could get some damn working ecash, we could fax it > anywhere -- sender pays:-) > > Next stage -- anonymous voice mail delivered via voice modem / > soundcard, all via mixmaster, that would be nice! > > Adam > From hua at teralogic-inc.com Thu Oct 15 15:40:04 1998 From: hua at teralogic-inc.com (Ernest Hua) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 06:40:04 +0800 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Commerce_Undersecretary_William_Reinsch_defends_the_go?==?iso-8859-1?Q?vernment=92s_encryption_policy_?= Message-ID: <01bb01bdf886$f2f524a0$4164a8c0@mve21> Michael, Absolutely! But I still really am hoping in desperation that some people in the main stream press would get a clue that this is all double speak, and that they are simply playing a game to buy time for their old system, and buy political wins for the next system. Heck, if I was in FBI/NSA's shoes, and this was the slimy game I see everyday in D.C., it would be the same game I play to get what I need. And I would be very irresponsible if I did not play the game, however slimy it is. The problem is that it seems like most of the public take speeches like the speakers are pretty much honest, when in fact, most of the time, they are playing spin control. I have no doubt the FBI/NSA are in trouble. Echelon (or whatever they call it) is in trouble. They are irresponsible if they did not fight to the end to preserve some of their multi-billion $$$ investment, but they are in dire straits if they are hoping for a second generation centralized scanning intelligence machinery like Echelon. My belief is that they have to gather automated intelligence from far more disparate and heterogenous (and possibly conflicting) sources in the near future, and find ways to make sense out of all of the data. But I think the intelligent observer would see that they have no choice because this technology .. I hate that word because people call some of the most simple and dumb stuff "technology" in order to make money from it .. this technology is impossible to control, which means that precisely the most important target worth going after will have plenty of resources to foil Echelon, but the people made most vulnerable (because of the regulations) are the common folks. THAT is what is pissing me off. If they have some effective way to regulate underground trade of encryption, then they would have a story to tell. However, the fact that most encryption get out of this country so darn fast (we're counting minutes now ...) means they are not even trying. Prosecuting that guy in San Jose is just nuts. Since when does prosecuting a legitimate business man will actually stop people, who firmly believing that they have some natural right to distribute encryption? And I must emphasize that my opinion has NOTHING to do with whether encryption SHOULD, from a social/political/legal view, be exportable or not. Ern From maxinux at openpgp.net Thu Oct 15 16:28:53 1998 From: maxinux at openpgp.net (Max Inux) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 07:28:53 +0800 Subject: pgp 6 src out In-Reply-To: <19981015104621.A7198@tightrope.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Oct 1998, Steve Mynott wrote: >hmmm pgp 6 source books have been released .. I wonder if there will >be a pgp 6i unix version now? > >-- >1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott steve at tightrope.demon.co.uk http://www.pineal.com/ > > i was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and i did. i said i >didn't know. -- mark twain > The source is out, in book form atleast, available from Printers Inc. waiting for it to be scanned.. It says on a web page i saw somewhere that they will make a 6.0 for unix. I think it was on NAI's page... Max -- Max Inux Hey Christy!!! KeyID 0x8907E9E5 Kinky Sex makes the world go round O R Strong crypto makes the world safe If crypto is outlawed only outlaws will have crypto Fingerprint(Photo Also): 259D 59F7 D98C CD73 1ACD 54Ea 6C43 4877 8907 E9E5 From lewisantonio at usa.net Fri Oct 16 07:30:30 1998 From: lewisantonio at usa.net (lewisantonio at usa.net) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 07:30:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: ATTENTION HOMEOWNER***FREE SERVICE***FREE SOFTWARE Message-ID: <199810161430.HAA29794@cygint.cygnus.com> ATTENTION HOMEOWNER***FREE SERVICE***FREE SOFTWARE Save Thousands of $$$$$ off your Mortgage without Refinancing! Cut years off your Mortgage without Increasing your Payments! Build Equity in your Home 300% Faster! Email: mailto:lewisantonio at usa.net For Instant Info. Visit: http://www.freeyellow.com/members/scrap64/page5.html From squirrel7 at nym.alias.net Thu Oct 15 16:54:50 1998 From: squirrel7 at nym.alias.net (Secret Squirrel) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 07:54:50 +0800 Subject: wtf... Message-ID: Has this list server died or is it just me? it seems like the list has died or is it just slowly fading into oblivion? It seems as though the only people still posting come from some great spam factory in left field. Have all of the questions been answered? Is everyone happy with the encryption they have? Doesn't anyone have any new thoughts on export restrictions, hash implementations, or the like? I know that I'm still out here, is anyone else? Does this ring a bell? People must come and together deploy these systems for the common good. Privacy only extends so far as the cooperation of one's fellows in society. We the Cypherpunks seek your questions and your concerns and hope we may engage you so that we do not deceive ourselves. We will not, however, be moved out of our course because some may disagree with our goals. Who else is out there? From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Oct 15 16:55:40 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 07:55:40 +0800 Subject: mail2fax remailer capability? (fwd) Message-ID: <199810152339.SAA18878@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 20:14:40 +0100 > From: Adam Back > Subject: mail2fax remailer capability? > Has anyone come across any mail2fax site which tries to keep track of > other free fax services and forward faxes to one in the right area? It wouldn't surprise me any to find that Kinko's and other such chain print shops couldn't do that sort of thing. Now if they'd do it over the web.... > ('Course if we could get some damn working ecash, we could fax it > anywhere -- sender pays:-) Open a laundromat, at least one person here in Austin has begun providing smart-card/no cash services. > Next stage -- anonymous voice mail delivered via voice modem / > soundcard, all via mixmaster, that would be nice! An anonymous remailer which drove a multi-format/media database would be pretty nifty. Might find more than a few niche markets to dabble in as well. In a sense you'd have your own little one machine data-haven. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From Mohammed_Lazhar at cch-lis.com Thu Oct 15 18:55:46 1998 From: Mohammed_Lazhar at cch-lis.com (Mohammed Lazhar) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 09:55:46 +0800 Subject: wtf... Message-ID: <8525669F.0005D1D4.00@notes.cch-lis.com> hey Guys : I just subscribed to the list. I will be posting stuff soon Mohammed From rah at shipwright.com Thu Oct 15 19:16:51 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:16:51 +0800 Subject: FYI: More on WebTV security Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text From: Pablo Calamera To: "'dstoler at globalpac.com'" , rah at shipwright.com, mac-crypto at vmeng.com Cc: jimg at mentat.com Subject: RE: FYI: More on WebTV security Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 17:19:11 -0700 comments inserted, extraneous text deleted. > -----Original Message----- > From: dstoler at globalpac.com [mailto:dstoler at globalpac.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 5:39 AM > To: Pablo Calamera; rah at shipwright.com; mac-crypto at vmeng.com > Cc: jimg at mentat.com > Subject: Re: FYI: More on WebTV security > > [stuff deleted] > The press release implies that there is secure end-to-end > email between two WebTV customers. The wording is somewhat ambiguous though it does have more of a bent on the security of the transport layer. Perhaps it could have been clearer and specifically said that messages where encrypted during transport using 128 bit encryption. > Perhaps I am overly cynical, but I am guessing that they are > using SSL (TLS) from a web based email application on the > client to WebTV's servers. I presume email data is decrypted > at the servers, then re-encrypted to the recipient when she > uses the WebTV client to read email. Close. We could not even export SSL (TLS) with 128 encryption in this scenario. We have a proprietary transport protocol that we use that employs 128 bit RC4. > This approach would allow access to private email at the > servers by WebTV employees or law enforcement agencies. > > Note the careful use of the phrases "unauthorized party" and > "without posing undo risks to national security and law > enforcement" in the press release. > > I believe that WebTV's email security is directly coupled to > their ability to establish and enforce good security policy > within their operation and the trustworthiness of the > employees who have access to sensitive data. Partially true. We believe a major component of our security is indeed in the encrypted transport of your email from the service through the internet, through a leased POP to your box. Our Privacy Policy and Terms of Service are available for your viewing. http://webtv.net/home/privacy_text.html http://webtv.net/home/tos_text2.html This level of protection goes beyond email to registration, preferences/setup, "favorites" etc... Virtually all communications with the WebTV service. > I am concerned that carefully constructed wording of > Microsoft's press release implies stronger email security > than really exists. I hope I am wrong. We believe that with the level of encryption and the quality of our network operations that we have the best level of privacy protection for our users of any online service. I agree that the carefully worded press release may imply more than what we got. But we are very happy with this initial step. It has taken a very long time just to get export approval for this architecture and we look forward to further relaxation of export controls so we can compete on even footing with our foreign competitors. Pablo > David Stoler > > > Key paragraphs from Microsoft's press release: > > WebTV Networks has been granted the first export license to > use strong 128-bit encryption for any user and any > application in Japan and the United Kingdom. So, for example, > an e-mail message with personal information sent from a WebTV > subscriber in Japan to a second WebTV subscriber in Japan > will be sent securely because there is no known technology by > which an unauthorized party could intercept and decipher it. > > Therefore, as part of the WebTV Network, the WebTV-based > Internet terminal (starting at under $100) is now the most > secure communications device available from a U.S. company. > > "WebTV Networks' export approval is a significant step for > industry and reflects the U.S. government's commitment to > promoting e-commerce abroad," said William Reinsch, U.S. > undersecretary for export administration. "The WebTV Network > provides secure communications for its customers and partners > without posing undue risks to national security and law enforcement." > > > --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From edsmith at IntNet.net Thu Oct 15 19:38:07 1998 From: edsmith at IntNet.net (Edwin E. Smith) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:38:07 +0800 Subject: wtf... Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19981015221350.007ef5a0@mailhost.IntNet.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Let's talk. - -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 mQGiBDPJm3oRBADUlbn8EX/UCyp3+lwiO8ZQLdG2QXQ8EdZ8+qOffbi5KKun3RVz 4XfU77cK+HWUeYfuVBZm1/8Uwbz/I1Z/FVUgDktMDvg4oeBnVBMBM8r4TPC8H73j 0B+XE6H5U8teixXljQpVsusTygI5R8LJ9Q9XNN9eWW1rxEYk2wG0I/3Z4wCg/+7N X6ayuKoJe8uVRro4USMVsycEAMiF1Kn1HevS2CaQn70xAYfk3/xGYjIj54hhlYQ+ zgvLuBMnfI3FoC875OyFhXUReIIn2HcdZKNcYrM1q33fgmMESZnjGr48qNe3rh4G FvhUHKkN6tOK/L8mCtbs6LAarjR2kE+nYmS2CcYeuhbfnj3O/wQqhsA8i4HCdsDK iHxXA/9aSIRFlB4ImAgDI6CywtCfMkQUdau0d2D+0p/XNtPf+r2kt8s6haeCgseB IQNETTC7PNf9ME0hpBGx2NdVsxsBvinASmkqJpE/yNUrSbzfmrkDf6OstfwtDeum NnF2E98KX+sHm9gCwTogSeXRQfwnZgIUEHgupNcTCm2hIF8JY7QjRWR3aW4gRS4g U21pdGggPGVkc21pdGhASW50TmV0Lm5ldD6JAEsEEBECAAsFAjPJm3oECwMBAgAK CRBJjX+m+ejwLU30AJ0chm6vMGZkSEk8R9Ci2YFbjqj8gACgtfRQLBfyEDLdQ5A6 O7U7VxpxDsGJAD8DBRA0geyVJnBGgNW85eURAnHAAJ9zOR8Z2uLjFdUfcTYfsDHg y7LdRACg3J/LLskk+f7psHBHUTIGlooTsyq5Ag0EM8mbexAIAPZCV7cIfwgXcqK6 1qlC8wXo+VMROU+28W65Szgg2gGnVqMU6Y9AVfPQB8bLQ6mUrfdMZIZJ+AyDvWXp F9Sh01D49Vlf3HZSTz09jdvOmeFXklnN/biudE/F/Ha8g8VHMGHOfMlm/xX5u/2R XscBqtNbno2gpXI61Brwv0YAWCvl9Ij9WE5J280gtJ3kkQc2azNsOA1FHQ98iLMc fFstjvbzySPAQ/ClWxiNjrtVjLhdONM0/XwXV0OjHRhs3jMhLLUq/zzhsSlAGBGN fISnCnLWhsQDGcgHKXrKlQzZlp+r0ApQmwJG0wg9ZqRdQZ+cfL2JSyIZJrqrol7D VekyCzsAAgIH/3SLvO37hk+J1SI6NgYjpivzyMD2E2acTVdpDWILSmlfVrTmoZ9b t+7jPj5cV5gAVD706Rv3h8Je1FsqtnqkV61z1ncx7cmU1gJTrecoLYBXbXbFk613 evI+u9EV1s3BGW4W4FsWp9ljQ1iR5Pb6TkTgeQ1SwI4uTCTkfYO1LvE/Boq1Nh7y 6ZoVBzrf8jvliHAsGw4sEQOtttfKr1SOPwweop6ZfEe4mLDHsNSSobKWU/Ql+JZD cr26Vm+C2tyBpAlYtuKj8WouLOUTa1bOo1LtClD1rgBmsao+8I1K1BfjiNlb+lS1 o8yxwoRjARKqGzrGoCB3x5mri6bHPdkQMWGJAD8DBRgzyZt7SY1/pvno8C0RAsdu AJ9mc0T8wq8viIy+uuFmG/6w1xiMhACg6h1fCtucX3tOAVLKIUgEmss7AJE= =U2JQ - -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- At 11:27 PM 10/15/98 -0000, you wrote: >Has this list server died or is it just me? > >it seems like the list has died or is it just slowly fading into oblivion? It seems as though the only people still posting come from some great spam factory in left field. Have all of the questions been answered? Is everyone happy with the encryption they have? Doesn't anyone have any new thoughts on export restrictions, hash implementations, or the like? I know that I'm still out here, is anyone else? > >Does this ring a bell? >People must come and together deploy these systems for the common good. Privacy only extends so far as the cooperation of one's fellows in society. We the Cypherpunks seek your questions and your concerns and hope we may engage you so that we do not deceive ourselves. We will not, however, be moved out of our course because some may disagree with our goals. > >Who else is out there? > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQA/AwUBNiaSoEmNf6b56PAtEQKOhQCeJchkyv48Ksi+0L+YIKEpv21wHqQAoIwl cK9lvW97mHZmM0aDwzi/IC6l =fUQ7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From edsmith at IntNet.net Thu Oct 15 19:40:04 1998 From: edsmith at IntNet.net (Edwin E. Smith) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:40:04 +0800 Subject: wtf... In-Reply-To: <8525669F.0005D1D4.00@notes.cch-lis.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19981015221032.007e2100@mailhost.IntNet.net> Thanks fot the warning. At 09:05 PM 10/15/98 -0400, you wrote: >hey Guys : > I just subscribed to the list. I will be posting stuff soon > Mohammed > > > From vznuri at netcom.com Thu Oct 15 22:59:47 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 13:59:47 +0800 Subject: IP: HOUSE APPROVES Y2K BILL Message-ID: <199810160538.WAA28791@netcom13.netcom.com> From: "Peter J. Celano" Subject: IP: HOUSE APPROVES Y2K BILL Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 13:24:30 -0400 To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com HOUSE APPROVES Y2K BILL The U.S. House of Representative has voted 407-3 to authorize the president's Council on the Year 2000 Conversion to take control of computer systems of critical agencies if they're unlikely to be able to avert a crisis because of the Year 2000 software problem, in which old programs using 2-digit codes for years will be unable to do correct date-based calculations. The Senate has not yet voted on the measure. (AP 13 Oct 98) ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Thu Oct 15 23:00:04 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:00:04 +0800 Subject: IP: ISP not liable for customer's messages Message-ID: <199810160538.WAA28804@netcom13.netcom.com> From: "Peter J. Celano" Subject: IP: ISP not liable for customer's messages Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 13:25:31 -0400 To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com INTERNET PROVIDER NOT LIABLE FOR MESSAGES OF ITS CUSTOMERS An appeals court in Florida has ruled against a woman who sued America Online because one of its customers, a convicted sex offender, used an AOL chat group to try to sell the woman's 11-year-old son a pornographic video. The court said that federal law protects online services from being held liable for the messages transmitted by their members sell the videotape of the boy. The defeated lawsuit, which is being appealed to the Supreme Court, tried to characterize America Online as "a home shopping network for pedophiles and child pornographers." (AP/Washington Post 15 Oct 98) -- Peter J. Celano petec at iname.com pgp key on request member SPECLUSA < >< Ready to DO something? Try Always remember - LIPS SINK SHIPS!!! ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Thu Oct 15 23:01:01 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:01:01 +0800 Subject: IP: ** National ID Alert - Again ** Message-ID: <199810160538.WAA28778@netcom13.netcom.com> From: Patrick Poole Subject: IP: ** National ID Alert - Again ** Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 12:08:54 -0400 To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com We have been made aware by concerned staff members on the Hill that the one-year moratorium on implementing the National ID regulations is once again under attack from Rep. Lamar Smith. Not more than a week ago we sent out a similar alert after Smith was successful in convincing Speaker Gingrich to remove the provision from the bill. After our alert, many of you called Speaker Gingrich and told him "No to the National ID". Because of your prompt action and phone calls, he was forced to back down and allow the moratorium provision in the Omnibus Appropriations Act for FY99. Now, in the waning hours of the 105th Congress, Gingrich is wavering on the issue and considering pulling the one-year moratorium from the bill at Smith's request. We need your help to stop Lamar Smith's stealth attacks on our freedoms by calling his office and Speaker Gingrich and telling them both, "No National ID for the American people!" The bill will probably come to a vote in the House TODAY. IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT YOU * CALL * THEIR OFFICES. With all of the last minute legislative activity occurring today, a phone call will be the only way that your voice is heard on this matter. Lamar Smith 202/225-4236 Speaker Gingrich 202/225-0600 Thanks in advance for your prompt attention. Patrick Poole Coalition for Constitutional Liberties Free Congress Foundation ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address ********************************************** www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** From emc at wire.insync.net Fri Oct 16 00:08:17 1998 From: emc at wire.insync.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:08:17 +0800 Subject: IP: ISP not liable for customer's messages In-Reply-To: <199810160538.WAA28804@netcom13.netcom.com> Message-ID: <199810160639.BAA18347@wire.insync.net> > An appeals court in Florida has ruled against a woman who sued > America Online because one of its customers, a convicted sex > offender, used an AOL chat group to try to sell the woman's > 11-year-old son a pornographic video. The court said that federal law > protects online services from being held liable for the messages > transmitted by their members sell the videotape of the boy. The > defeated lawsuit, which is being appealed to the Supreme Court, tried > to characterize America Online as "a home shopping network for > pedophiles and child pornographers." (AP/Washington Post 15 Oct 98) As I recall, the individual was trying to sell a pornographic video featuring the woman's 11 year old son, which is another thing entirely. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From aladdinspecials at LISTSERVER.DIGITALRIVER.COM Fri Oct 16 18:47:03 1998 From: aladdinspecials at LISTSERVER.DIGITALRIVER.COM (Aladdin Systems) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 18:47:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Ooops, didn't save? FlashBack! Message-ID: <018001bdf966$08fd99a0$75d2d1d0@c-kosel.digitalriver.com> ********************************************************************* You are currently a member of the Aladdin Information mailing list. Your email address was submitted at the Aladdin web site indicating that you wished to receive information pertaining to Aladdin products. If you would like to be removed from this list please refer to the instructions found at the bottom of this email. ********************************************************************* Dear Valued Aladdin Customer, It's not often that a whole new kind of software gets discovered. These days, it seems like products on the market span numerous technology areas with many different functions without really being helpful at all. The number of really new and exciting software that gets released has just about disappeared. Announcing: Aladdin FlashBack, an easy and fast way to protect your files! 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Put "UNSUBSCRIBE ALADDIN-WIN" (without quotes) in the FIRST LINE of the message BODY ===================================================================== Sincerely, Jonathan Kahn Founder & President Aladdin Systems From cypherpunks at toad.com Fri Oct 16 05:51:18 1998 From: cypherpunks at toad.com (cypherpunks at toad.com) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 20:51:18 +0800 Subject: ADfilter 2.1 Registration Code Message-ID: <0174930471110a8CLWEB1@clweb1.i-way.co.uk> Thank you for trying ADfilter 2.0 Your email address is: cypherpunks at toad.com Your personal ADfilter key is X3KCZ-K9994 Visit our web site at http://www.adfilter.com to purchase the full ADfilter 2.0 Professional for just US$19.95! Installing ADfilter: Run ADFSETUP.EXE. This will install ADfilter on your computer. As soon as installation is complete, ADfilter will show you a registration screen. Enter the e-mail address to which your registration key has been sent (you entered this before you downloaded ADfilter) and the registration code that has been sent to that e-mail address. Remember to include all punctuation when completing these two fields. Check that the ADfilter icon appears in your Windows system tray (bottom right of your screen). The icon is green when ADfilter is on and red when ADfilter is off. Double-clicking the icon opens ADfilter's configuration screens. If you encounter any difficulties you will find additional help on the ADfilter support page or you can contact us at support at adfilter.com From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Fri Oct 16 06:12:54 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 21:12:54 +0800 Subject: FYI: More on WebTV security In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199810160938.KAA13027@server.eternity.org> Pablo Calamera writes: > > Perhaps I am overly cynical, but I am guessing that they are > > using SSL (TLS) from a web based email application on the > > client to WebTV's servers. I presume email data is decrypted > > at the servers, then re-encrypted to the recipient when she > > uses the WebTV client to read email. > > Close. We could not even export SSL (TLS) with 128 encryption in > this scenario. We have a proprietary transport protocol that we use > that employs 128 bit RC4. Hope you are doing sensible things with RC4 -- sounds like you/webTV group know what you are doing, but we have seen a lot of dumb things done with RC4 by microsoft (and by others) in the last couple of years. Things like using the same key multiple times (doh!) etc. Only it is worrying that they would refuse SSL (which is presumably going to be 128 bit RC4) and make you design another SSL-alike replacement which uses the same cipher and key size. Perhaps they are hoping that you will make subtle errors in a non-peer reviewed protocol. As you have given them your protocol spec (they require this, so I presume you have), it may be that your export permission hinges on a exploitable flaw they have found. SSL went through a few revisions before it got to be very secure. The other crucial point is this: do you use a forward secret key negotation alogrithm? So that a court ordered demand for decryption definately only gets traffic from that point onwards (and not all traffic going backwards if the LEA has been unofficially recording all the traffic to the user / all users). > Partially true. We believe a major component of our security is indeed in > the encrypted transport of your email from the service through the internet, > through a leased POP to your box. Our Privacy Policy and Terms of Service > are available for your viewing. > http://webtv.net/home/privacy_text.html > http://webtv.net/home/tos_text2.html Will look at those, thanks. > > I am concerned that carefully constructed wording of > > Microsoft's press release implies stronger email security > > than really exists. I hope I am wrong. > > We believe that with the level of encryption and the quality of our network > operations that we have the best level of privacy protection for our users > of any online service. That's a strong claim. I don't think you provide as much privacy as say Infonex (pay with cash, no ID required), ssh, use a nymserver, anonymous web pages etc. There are a few others with similar offers also. I wonder -- do you archive mail? (As it goes in the clear through your mail hub which the users are connecting to.) > I agree that the carefully worded press release may imply more than > what we got. But we are very happy with this initial step. It has > taken a very long time just to get export approval for this > architecture and we look forward to further relaxation of export > controls so we can compete on even footing with our foreign > competitors. It does seem to be somewhat of a relaxation, and is potentially useful at that. For example Phil Karn said Qualcomm where refused use of 3DES between their US and an non-US office with only their own staff using it, though this was a few years ago. In all I am very pleased to see this being discussed. Microsoft as a norm does not get involved in answering it's critics (in other than carefully spun press releases). Thanks! Adam -- print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 >Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 18:45:12 -0700 (PDT) >From: Declan McCullagh >To: politech at vorlon.mit.edu >Subject: FC: DoT National ID card delayed; CDA II signed soon >X-No-Archive: Yes >Sender: owner-politech at vorlon.mit.edu >Reply-To: declan at well.com >X-Loop: politech at vorlon.mit.edu >X-URL: Politech is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/ > >http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/15635.html > >Newt Caves on National ID Cards >by Declan McCullagh > > 5:45 p.m. 15.Oct.98.PDT > When the staff at the conservative Free > Congress Foundation learned Thursday > that legislation postponing a federal plan > to standardize US drivers licenses was in > trouble, they turned to the Internet for > help. > > Patrick Poole, deputy director of the > groups Center for Technology Policy, > quickly fired off an email alert to 500 > grassroots conservative and libertarian > groups. He said Representative Lamar > Smith (R-Texas) was trying to preserve > regulations creating de facto national ID > cards, and he urged readers to let > Congress know exactly what middle > America thought about such big > government boondoggles... > > > >http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/15638.html > >CDA II Bound for Clinton's Desk >by Declan McCullagh > > 2:45 p.m. 15.Oct.98.PDT > Wielding a potent political bludgeon -- by > accusing Democrats of being soft on > pornography just weeks before the > election -- Republicans on Thursday > inserted the sequel to the > Communications Decency Act into a > sprawling $500 billion spending bill. > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >POLITECH -- the moderated mailing list of politics and technology >To subscribe: send a message to majordomo at vorlon.mit.edu with this text: >subscribe politech >More information is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/ >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From declan at well.com Fri Oct 16 06:46:10 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 21:46:10 +0800 Subject: IP: ** National ID Alert - Again ** In-Reply-To: <199810160538.WAA28778@netcom13.netcom.com> Message-ID: <4.0.2.19981016085918.0093d950@mail.well.com> Read my story at wired.com for details -- no need to panic. -Declan From nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl Fri Oct 16 07:05:41 1998 From: nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl (HyperReal-Anon) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 22:05:41 +0800 Subject: Disk (block device) encryption for Linux and *BSD? Message-ID: Apologies for the interruption, I'm looking for disk / partition encryption for Unix-alikes, especially Linux, OpenBSD and/or NetBSD. My websearch has been less than satisfactory - I found outdated Linux kernel patches for encryption loopback, and I distinctly remember reading about a serious bug in the use (or lack thereof) of key material in this code. Do patches for a current Linux kernel exist, and have all the known bugs been fixed? Also, there seems to be no version of Marutukku about that I can actually get to work on *BSD. Is Marutukku still being developed? Generally, is there a good page that tracks disk encryption for Unix? I'm currently using cfs here and there, and I have a specific question about that package, too: Does the cypherpunks list trust the patches that add Blowfish support to cfs? Questions questions.. From DizzyG1616 at aol.com Fri Oct 16 22:22:28 1998 From: DizzyG1616 at aol.com (DizzyG1616 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 22:22:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Do you gamble, or want to know how?! Message-ID: <70d5743c.362821a6@aol.com> � To: DizzyG1616 at aol.com Subject: Do you gamble, or want to know how?! From: DizzyG1616 at aol.com Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 00:44:01 EDT Do you gamble, or want to know how?! CLICK HERE! From wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org Fri Oct 16 09:02:06 1998 From: wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org (Rabid Wombat) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 00:02:06 +0800 Subject: IP: ISP not liable for customer's messages In-Reply-To: <199810160639.BAA18347@wire.insync.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 16 Oct 1998, Eric Cordian wrote: > > > An appeals court in Florida has ruled against a woman who sued > > America Online because one of its customers, a convicted sex > > offender, used an AOL chat group to try to sell the woman's > > 11-year-old son a pornographic video. The court said that federal law > > protects online services from being held liable for the messages > > transmitted by their members sell the videotape of the boy. The > > defeated lawsuit, which is being appealed to the Supreme Court, tried > > to characterize America Online as "a home shopping network for > > pedophiles and child pornographers." (AP/Washington Post 15 Oct 98) > > As I recall, the individual was trying to sell a pornographic video > featuring the woman's 11 year old son, which is another thing entirely. > Not really. If the service providor is to be held accountable for what its members post/say/etc., they would have to monitor *all* traffic in order to police their members. In addition, even if the providor *were* monitoring, they can only be reactive - do you expect them to monitor and censor all traffic before releasing it? Looks like an attempt to bring in a "deep pockets" defendant. -r.w. From nobody at seclab.com Fri Oct 16 09:28:10 1998 From: nobody at seclab.com (DOOM Anonymous Untraceable User) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 00:28:10 +0800 Subject: Who is next? (re Jim's subpoena) Message-ID: <199810161605.SAA04880@rogue.seclab.com> Could you mean this.... First they came for the Communists, and I didn't speak up, because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up, because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up, because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak up for me. by Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945. William J. Hartwell wrote: > > This ran through my mind this morning before I was totally awake. Maybe > somebody can help me with the original author of this.... > > When they came for Kevin Mitnick I said nothing. After all he was a big > time hacker and I wasn't a hacker so I did not speak up. > > When they came for Jim Bell I said nothing. He was a criminal and I am not > a criminal so I didn't speak up. > > When they came for Toto I said nothing. Surely he was nuts and I am > completely sane so I didn't speak up. > > When they came for Jim Choate I said nothing. He runs a cypherpunks mailing > list and I don't manage any lists so I didn't speak up. > > When they come for me who will be left to speak up? > > This is a poor paraphrase of the original but I wonder if it is something > that we may be saying here in the U.S. soon? > > -- > William J. Hartwell > (602)987-8436 > Queencreek, Az. > > billh at ibag.com billh at interdem.com billh at hartwell.net From 95959742 at mailcity.com Sat Oct 17 00:50:06 1998 From: 95959742 at mailcity.com (95959742 at mailcity.com) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 00:50:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Accept Credit Cards Online!!! Message-ID: <> INCREASE SALES UP TO 100% ACCEPT CREDIT CARDS OVER THE INTERNET *** NO SETUP FEES Good Credit / Bad Credit/ No Credit **** NO PROBLEM****!!! 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ACT TODAY!!! ____________________________________________________________________________________ To be Removed send and email to merchant89 at mailcity.com From 95959742 at mailcity.com Sat Oct 17 00:50:06 1998 From: 95959742 at mailcity.com (95959742 at mailcity.com) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 00:50:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Accept Credit Cards Online!!! Message-ID: <> INCREASE SALES UP TO 100% ACCEPT CREDIT CARDS OVER THE INTERNET *** NO SETUP FEES Good Credit / Bad Credit/ No Credit **** NO PROBLEM****!!! It Just Doesn't Matter - Everyone Gets Approved ONLY $49.95 TO GET STARTED!!! No Upfront Fees For Application-Processing While Others Charge You From $195 TO $250 To Get Set Up WE CHARGE ZERO FOR SETUP FEES!! Limited Offer So Take Advantage Of It!! We Specialize In Servicing The Following: *Multilevel Marketing *Mail Order/Phone Sales *At Home Business *INTERNET BASED BUSINESS *New Business*Small Business Whatever!!! We Do It All!!! Everyone Is Welcome! Call us toll free today 1-800-600-0343 ext. 2310 What Can We Do For Your Company???? >>>>>INTERNET SERVICE<<<<< It's finally here!!! A fast and reliable way to process credit cards through your web site. The Internet's reach is global - it knows no time zones or physical boundaries. With our user friendly, easy to use program, you will convert your web site from an electronic brochure to a virtual storefront without the addition of a sales clerk!!!!! SECURE REAL-TIME ON-LINE TRANSACTIONS make it as easy as possible for your customers to purchase your products or services. We use SSL SECURITY (best on the NET today). Now tell me if this doesn't sound intriguing, lets say a customer visits your web site and decides they want to buy your product(s) or service(s). They would simply enter their credit card information and receive an approval WITHIN 5 SECONDS. That's all there is to it!!! >From that point on, the sale is complete and the money will be directly deposited into your business checking account within 24 to 48 hours. So you will have LIQUID ASSETS AVAILABLE ALMOST IMMEDIATELY!!!! Your customer will be e-mailed a receipt and you will be e-mailed an invoice slip, all instantaneously. Now, since this program is automated for 24 hours a day 7 days a week, you will be receiving orders and making money in your sleep!!!!! IT'S JUST THAT EASY!!!! 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ACT TODAY!!! ____________________________________________________________________________________ To be Removed send and email to merchant89 at mailcity.com From athena at cyberpass.net Fri Oct 16 10:22:13 1998 From: athena at cyberpass.net (Pallas Anonymous Remailer) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 01:22:13 +0800 Subject: wtf... Message-ID: Mohammed Lazhar wrote: > > hey Guys : > I just subscribed to the list. I will be posting stuff soon > Mohammed Please let me know as soon as you post amything!!! From nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl Fri Oct 16 10:32:43 1998 From: nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl (HyperReal-Anon) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 01:32:43 +0800 Subject: LUGGAGE, GARMENT BAGS, BREIFCASES, ETC. Message-ID: Ms. Anges Lek, Managing Director We have urgent need for suitcases that enable transport of laptop computers through customs without search. Please provide case histories. Tim May wrote: > > At 5:07 AM -0700 10/15/98, sendus at earthcorp.com wrote: > >Dear reader, > > > >We have just visited your website and became interested to develop a > >trading relationship with you company. > > > >We are a major manufacturer of a full range of luggage, bags, and > >trolleys.For full details > >mailto:sendus at earthcorp.com?Subject=BESTPLUS_IDUSTRIES_LTD. > > > >Thank you very much, > > > >Ms. Anges Lek, > >Managing Director > > > > Thank you for posting this to our list! > > We are very interested in specialized types of luggage. We seek suitcases > and briefcases in which various items may be hidden. The usual items: > money, papers, drugs, chemicals, and various pyrotechnic assemblies. > > Please describe your experience in fabricating such items, and please list > some of your more famous clients. > > Warning: We have very high standards! The luggage we use now has been used > to export the PGP source code disks to Finland and Holland, and such > esteemed travellers as Pablo Escobar, Abu Nidal, and the Engineer have used > the same products we use. > > We look forward to your reply. > > --Asama bin May, Director of Delivery Operations, World Liberation Front From emc at wire.insync.net Fri Oct 16 11:07:48 1998 From: emc at wire.insync.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 02:07:48 +0800 Subject: IP: ISP not liable for customer's messages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199810161720.MAA19054@wire.insync.net> Mr. Wombat writes: > > As I recall, the individual was trying to sell a pornographic video > > featuring the woman's 11 year old son, which is another thing entirely. > Not really. If the service providor is to be held accountable for what > its members post/say/etc., they would have to monitor *all* traffic in > order to police their members. In addition, even if the providor *were* > monitoring, they can only be reactive - do you expect them to monitor and > censor all traffic before releasing it? I was merely correcting a factual error in the prior post. Clearly, a parent is likely to feel more outrage towards AOL if pornographic videos of their 11 year old son are being openly sold online by the child's victimizer, than if some random person tries to sell said 11 year old a piece of mainstream erotica. Pointing out why this parent is so bent out of shape over this is not the moral equivalent of suggesting that servuce providers should be held accountable for content they do not originate, which I do not support. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From tom at cat.ping.de Fri Oct 16 11:39:58 1998 From: tom at cat.ping.de (Thomas Adams) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 02:39:58 +0800 Subject: FBI Affidavit on Ex-NSA Cryptanalyst In-Reply-To: <199810151821.OAA23576@dewdrop2.mindspring.com> Message-ID: At 14:13 Uhr -0400 15.10.1998, John Young wrote: >Bad Ausburg is the location of one of the NSA intercept stations >for the Echelon program is it not? I think you mean Bad Aibling. From squirrel6 at nym.alias.net Fri Oct 16 13:13:45 1998 From: squirrel6 at nym.alias.net (Secret Squirrel) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 04:13:45 +0800 Subject: IP: ISP not liable for customer's messages Message-ID: Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote: > > INTERNET PROVIDER NOT LIABLE FOR MESSAGES OF ITS CUSTOMERS > ... > The > defeated lawsuit, which is being appealed to the Supreme Court, tried > to characterize America Online as "a home shopping network for > pedophiles and child pornographers." (AP/Washington Post 15 Oct 98) Hey, what about us clueless spamming sticker collectors??? -- an AOL32 Luser From rah at shipwright.com Fri Oct 16 14:09:58 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 05:09:58 +0800 Subject: Is it Keynes or Is it .... ? Message-ID: And now, ladies and germs, the "Spit Take of the Week" award winner... Cheers, Bob Hettinga --- begin forwarded text Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:12:55 EDT Reply-To: Hayek Related Research Sender: Hayek Related Research From: Hayek-L List Host Subject: Is it Keynes or Is it .... ? To: HAYEK-L at MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU >> Is It Keynes? << -- The End of Laissez-Faire "A year or so from now, it will be difficult to find a single person who admits ever having believed that a global free market is a sensible way of running the world economy .. The late-twentieth- century political fad for the free market arose at a time when memory of it had faded. Mid-Victorian laissez-faire was short-lived .. The free market came about in England as a result not of slow evolution but swiftly, as a consequence of the unremitting use of the power of the state .. The free market withered away gradually, thought the natural workings of democratic political competition ... The short history of the free market in nineteenth- century England illustrates a vital truth: Democracy and the free market are rivals, not allies. 'Democratic capitalism' -- the vacuous rallying cry of neoconservatives everywhere -- signifies (or conceals) a deeply problematic relationship. The normal concomitant of free markets is not stable democratic government but the volatile -- and not always democratic -- politics of economic insecurity. History exemplifies an equally important fact: Free market economies lack built-in stabilizers. Without effective management by government, they are liable to recurrent booms and busts -- with all their costs in social cohesion and political stability. The Great Depression was partly an aftershock of the First World War .. But is was also a consequence of governments' holding to an orthodoxy that believed that so long as inflation is under control the economy can be relied upon to be self-regulating ,,," It's John Gray in _The Nation_. "Not for the First Time, World Sours on Free Markets", Oct. 19, 1998. Is it Keynes is special service of the Hayek-L list. --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From stuffed at stuffed.net Sat Oct 17 05:24:31 1998 From: stuffed at stuffed.net (STUFFED SAT OCT 17) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 05:24:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: EVEN MORE FREE PORN: STUFFED HAS 10 LINKS TO 100S OF FREE PICS, NEW EVERY DAY Message-ID: <19981017071000.11812.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com> + 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS + 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES + SATAN'S CIRCUS + SIMPLY STUNNING + EURO SLUTS + ZEE ASS + NAUGHTY LADY + CAILEY'S PRECIOUS PIX + ANAL CLIMAX + MATURE WOMEN + MAD PUSSY + ALL DAY PUSSY PARTY + BONUS PIC 1 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/13035.htm + BONUS PIC 2 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/19998.htm + BONUS PIC 3 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/21450.htm + BONUS PIC 4 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/20953.htm + BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/32403.htm + MUCH, MUCH MORE! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- If you haven't visited STUFFED in the last few days, you're in for a real treat. It's faster than ever before and now, as a subscriber, you get 35 FREE new pics every day, plus over 100 more at carefully selected FREE sites we link to. This email is never sent unsolicited. Stuffed is the supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full instructions on unsubscribing are in every issue of Eureka! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- From athena at cyberpass.net Fri Oct 16 15:32:36 1998 From: athena at cyberpass.net (Pallas Anonymous Remailer) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 06:32:36 +0800 Subject: Adam Back Message-ID: <0bd290677b2efe4d0a531bc586530176@anonymous> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=35781839 From vznuri at netcom.com Fri Oct 16 15:33:15 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 06:33:15 +0800 Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.47: High-Tech Spying Gear Not Just For 007 Message-ID: <199810162207.PAA09993@netcom13.netcom.com> From: "ama-gi ISPI" Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.47: High-Tech Spying Gear Not Just For 007 Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 00:37:06 -0700 To: ISPI Clips 5.47: High-Tech Spying Gear Not Just For 007 News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) Friday October 16, 1998 ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This From: ABC News.com, October 7, 1998 http://www.abcnews.com Surveillance Tools Get Smarter, Smaller What the Watchers Use http://www.abcnews.com/sections/tech/DailyNews/spytech981007.html By Chris Stamper, spies at stamper.com ABCNEWS.com Are you being watched? Or listened to? High-tech spying gear is making surveillance easier as the equipment gets smaller. And it�s not restricted to Big Brother. The Searchcam allows for filming in tight corners.(Surveillance Systems) Bill DeArman, a senior special agent of the Customs Service, says that most privacy threats today come from gizmos bought in shopping malls, not obtained on the black market from KGB or Mossad defectors. A cheap disposable camera or a hand-held tape recorder can be as dangerous as the latest surveillance equipment. �People are looking for the ultimate gizmos, but the people who commit crimes aren�t necessarily high-tech,� DeArman says. What the Pros Use: But if it�s the high-end, expensive gear you want, that�s increasingly available to civilians. Pinhole video cameras, for example, can be hidden in an wide variety of household products. �You need a hole as small as 1/16 of an inch.� says Jeff Hall, vice president of Gadgets By Design, a Lansing, Mich.-based company that makes surveillance equipment. �We�ve put them in light fixtures, computers and VCRs.� A basic pinhole video cam costs $129, according to Hall. They�re called �pinhole� because they have extremely small lenses, not because they resemble the toys children make from oatmeal boxes. A wire runs from the tiny TV camera to a transmitter or a recording VCR. Hall�s company has hidden these cameras in hats, thermostats, wristwatches and smoke detectors. Most of the company�s sales come from businesses that want to keep track of their stock or watch their employees. �If you wanted to put a camcorder in the back room, it�s hard to do that inconspicuously,� he says. �We have to get smaller and smaller to stay one step ahead of the bad guys.� The Latest Fashion: A New York company called Electronic Security Products sells wearable cameras disguised as brooches, pens and eyeglasses. �They�re used for recording video one-on-one,� says company president Avi Gilor. A wire runs from the camera to a transmitter concealed in a pocket. If there�s no light to see by, then infrared can come in handy. Bakersfield, Calif.-based Search Systems sells the probelike Searchcam ($10,687) to law enforcement and rescue workers in tight corners. An infrared camera shaped like a long nightstick, the Searchcam is meant to be poked into small openings such as heat vents, doorways and windowsills. �Officers in a high-risk situation can extend their eyes and ears in places where they wouldn�t put their heads,� says Scott Park, president of Search Systems. Listen to Birds�Not People: U.S. law says little about video surveillance, so just about anyone can watch you without fear of prosecution. Audio surveillance, on the other hand, is regulated by the 1984 Omnibus Crime Control Act, and arrests and prosecutions for eavesdropping are not uncommon. Ronald Kimble, America�s biggest spy shop owner, is currently serving a five-month sentence after being busted in 1995 on 70 counts of dealing in illegal wiretapping equipment. Kimble spent 11 years as an agent with the Drug Enforcement Agency before starting a chain of stores called The Spy Factory. Bugging devices, often hidden in household items, are confiscated daily at the border by Customs agents. The Customs Service says the law is too weak, however; criminals only face up to six months for each count of importing spy equipment. A camera could be hiding in what appears to be a thermostat. (Gadgets by Design) �The consensus of opinion is that technology has grown so rapidly, so quickly, that laws aren�t up to speed,� says agent DeArman. Often the legality of an item depends on its use. Parabolic microphones, for example, can be legally used for bird-watching or for professionally recording sports events. These devices, which look like small, hand-held satellite dishes, are 75 times more powerful than standard mikes and usually cost about $900. �A parabolic microphone, if it looks like a dish at a football game, is a legal device,� DeArman says � If you disguise it as an umbrella to listen to what people have to say, then it�s illegal.� Copyright (c)1998 ABCNEWS --------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------ ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research and educational purposes only. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases (up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message "Please enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to: ISPIClips at ama-gi.com . The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia (Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no government funding and takes a global perspective. ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research into electronic, personal and financial privacy with a view toward helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy. But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and generous financial support. If you value in the ISPI Clips service or if you are concerned about the erosion of your privacy in general, won't you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI Clips Supporter" or by taking out an institute Membership? We gratefully accept all contributions: Less than $60 ISPI Clips Supporter $60 - $99 Primary ISPI Membership (1 year) $100 - $300 Senior ISPI Membership (2 years) More than $300 Executive Council Membership (life) Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership. For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com . We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to any third party. **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Fri Oct 16 15:33:29 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 06:33:29 +0800 Subject: IP: Silent Weapon of Mass Destruction Message-ID: <199810162207.PAA10003@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Silent Weapon of Mass Destruction Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 11:25:31 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com Source: Washington Times http://www.WashTimes.com/opinion/grenier.html The silent weapon By Richard Grenier THE WASHINGTON TIMES There is a certain logic to it, I suppose. Two nuclear explosions in Japan half a century ago, with great blasts, great noise, mushroom clouds, many dead. It terrified America and much of the world and, except for military circles, little thought was given to the estimated million American soldiers who might have given their lives if they'd tried to storm Japan without the nuclear bombs' aid. But that's the way it goes. A historical event surrounded by great theatrical effects makes a really big impression. But what if the next weapon of mass destruction is silent, gives no warning, is not preceded by a pyrotechnic blast, but takes effect more slowly, leaving hospitals swamped, and millions in great American cities with hideously blistered faces dying in the streets? The doctors sent to succor them also die the same painful and unsightly deaths. For biological weapons now have the potential to wipe out cities, states and even entire national populations if positioned in the air, water supply or food supply. The food supply would progressively be shipped to various parts of the country, ultimately killing millions of people. And all, except for the groans of the dying, could be done in relative silence, with only the piles of dead in the streets to bear witness as in the Plague Years of the Middle Ages. As pointed out by former Secretary of Defense William Perry, most biological agents are sensitive to heat, and ready-to-eat foods are the most likely vehicles for mass contamination. So eat up your Quick Burger and fries with confidence that death will soon follow. Food processing plants and water purification facilities also provide tempting targets. Microorganisms, it should be noted, are a very inexpensive way to exterminate entire populations. Above all, many microorganisms can be cheaply grown, each having its own unique uses. As stressed by Carl Yaeger of Utah Valley State College and Steven Fustero, IACSP Director of Operations, this is a great advantage in deciding the effect wished to be brought about on the section of the population at which the attack is directed. Since the organisms are capable of rapid reproduction, only a small amount is required to infect a very large area. But possibly more interesting than the large area to be infected is the selectivity. With the development of biochemistry and genetic engineering, it might be possible to target ethnic groups -- which, once it is announced to the general public, should do wonders for the harmony of America's various ethnic and racial groupings. Judging by some recent events, there are not a few extremist groups in the United States that would give little thought to wiping out thousands of "undesirables." This kind of germ weapon would be highly prized in the hands of terrorist groups, and in the hands of these terrorists could well be more lethal than tactical nuclear weapons. A terrorist can accomplish his agenda in many ways with biological weapons. Terrorists are creative and use varying tactics, as is spelled out in Yonah Alexander's book "International Terrorism." The book gives an alarming list of different styles of terrorism in different parts of the world. Contributing to the problem is the easy availability of information for anyone who would mix up a bag of anything toxic from recipes readily accessible on the internet. As Fred Reed points out in his essay "Publishing Do It Yourself Munitions Books Increases the Risk of Terrorism," much of this information is not that hard to get. Even nerve gas has a patent that makes the formula public. Biological weapons do not have a single, unique effect. Human beings along with other animals are constantly being attacked by disease-causing bacteria and viruses. Biological weapons, for the most part, create the same effects as any of the wide variety of naturally occurring diseases, which makes tracking them down so baffling. These artificial agents could be used merely to weaken the targeted population, to intimidate it with no intention of inflicting wide scale casualties, or simply to wipe it out. The options are many. Biological agents can also be selective in another way, as they could be used to target crops and cattle or to start an epidemic of a highly dangerous disease such as smallpox. Furthermore, if an agent were released in the proper way, it could be months before anyone even knew how the epidemic had started. And there are many other advantages of using biological weapons. Terrorists do not necessarily need or want a weapon of mass destruction. A simpler biological weapon might be more controllable and kill enough people to suit the terrorists' purposes. Still another advantage could be secrecy and concealment. Limited attacks could be carried out secretly before open "hostilities" even began. As you can see, a whole new age of warfare is beginning. According to an excellent PBS "Frontline" documentary aired this week, the Soviet Union, even under Mikhail Gorbachev, had already broken an international agreement restricting chemical and biological weapons. But given the collapse of the Soviet Union, and the subsequent chaos into which Russia has since been plunged, where are those Russian weapons now? Perhaps, wherever they are -- and this is an uneasy thought -- they could be prepared to kill millions by being disseminated in the air by cans of hair spray. But most Americans don't want to think about this. Copyright � 1998 News World Communications, Inc. ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From rah at shipwright.com Fri Oct 16 16:12:12 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 07:12:12 +0800 Subject: CL: The Economist on Giddens, Hayek & the LSE Message-ID: Beware of socialists pitching new paradigms. Maybe the Economist hasn't succumbed to the "Cool Brittania" backwash as much as I thought it did -- nawwww.... Cheers, Bob Hettinga --- begin forwarded text Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:50:19 EDT Reply-To: Hayek Related Research Sender: Hayek Related Research From: Hayek-L List Host Subject: CL: The Economist on Giddens, Hayek & the LSE To: HAYEK-L at MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU >> Current Literature < -- Giddens / Political Thought at the LSE 'Bagehot', "The third way revealed", _The Economist_. Sept 19, 1998. >From the article: "SOMETIMES you want to read a book a second time. You know, just to make sure that there was nothing important you missed first time around. In the end, though, Bagehot decided to skip the second reading of Anthony Giddens's "The Third Way" .. For the time being, first impressions must stand. This book is awesomely, magisterially and in some ways disturbingly vacuous. Why disturbing? There are many bad books in the world. But the third way is not just a parlour game for intellectuals puzzling over the content of politics now that both socialism and "unbridled" capitalism are in disrepute. It has become the quasi-official political philosophy of Britain's governing party, and is taken seriously enough to form the backdrop for a curious political seminar that Bill and Hillary Clinton, Tony Blair and Romano Prodi, the prime minister of Italy, plan to conduct in New York on September 23rd. Nor is "The Third Way" just any other book about what the third way is. It is the first detailed account of it by the man who has become its chief British prophet and interpreter. Even by the standards of the London School of Economics, which provided a base for the likes of Friedrich Hayek, the Webbs and Harold Laski, its present director exerts a powerful influence on Downing Street. Of Mr Giddens (who, thanks to Mr Blair, shall be Lord Giddens hereafter), as of no other living sociologist, it can be said that what he thinks matters. So what does he think? A large part of"The Third Way" consists of a description of where things stand after the death of socialism. Mr Giddens homes in on "five dilemmas". In merciful summary, these are (i) that globalisation is changing the meanings of nationhood, government and sovereignty. There exists (2) a "new individualism" that is not necessarily selfish but which means that social solidarity can no longer be imposed in a top-down way. Although distinctions between left and right keep changing, the left cares more about social justice and equality. However, (3), there is a category of problems-such as global warming, devolution, the future of the European Union-about which it is unhelpful to think in terms of left versus right. (4) Some jobs (defence, lawmaking) can be done only by governments, even though politicians are becoming less influential and pressure groups more effective. And do not forget (5) that while environmental dangers can be exaggerated it is highly dangerous to be sanguine about them, not least because, as in the case of madcow disease, experts sometimes differ. Hmm. At this point, the charitable reader may feel that although some of these points may be obvious, and others arguable, Mr Giddens has at least raised interesting questions. Moreover, they are original, in the narrow sense that nobody else seems to have singled out these particular five points and called them "dilemmas". The trouble with any argument constructed at Mr Giddens's level of generalisation is that you begin to wonder whether there might just as plausibly have been four dilemmas, or 14, or even whether a different five could have been chosen just as easily .. But let that pass. Philosophers describe the world. How does the prophet of Britain's third way propose to change it? Mr Giddens admits that what he is offering is merely an "outline". This is a deceptive species of modesty given that what he claims to be outlining is no less than "an integrated political programme covering each of the major sectors of society." Here we learn amongst other things that protectionism is undesirable but so is a "blanket endorsement" of free trade; that there should be no rights without responsibilities; that the protection of children is the most important bit of family policy; that society should be "inclusive" but not "strongly egalitarian"; that constitutions should aim for openness and transparency; that there may be a case for a world criminal court; that there is a need to control excessive overshoots in financial markets but that the nature of these controls is "problematic"; that . . But, really, why bother to go on? .. it would have been nice for Britain's pre-eminent sociologist and the director of the LSE to come up with at least one new proposal capable of ruffling at least someone's feathers. Remember "The Road to Serfdom", Hayek's brave, hugely unfashionable warning against planning made in the midst of a war that seemed to have made planners indispensable? By contrast, Mr Giddens's integrated political programme boils down to a list of conventional appeals to civic virtue, in which every bet is hedged and everyhard choice ducked. It is just the sort of stuffthat could find its way risklessly into the manifesto of any social democratic party interested in tarting up its image. Which is presumably why he wrote it. Mr Giddens wants to restore the LSE to a position of power and influence. How pleasing it must have been to find in Tony Blair a clever, instinctive politician in the market for some sort of ideology in which to dress up his opportunism. And how intellectually disarming. Was it fear of setting out any positions that New Labour could one day find embarrassing that made Mr Giddens write such a bad book? Whatever the reason, the third way remains as mystifying as ever. Herbert Morrison-the grandfather of Peter Mandelson, Mr Blair's cabinet colleague-once wickedly defined socialism as what the Labour Party did. On the evidence of this slight work, the third way is whatever New Labour does." Anonymous, "Bagehot: The third way revealed". _The Economist_ Sept. 19, 1998 Vol: 348, Issue: 8086. pp. 72-73. Current Literature is a regular feature of the Hayek-L list. --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Fri Oct 16 16:14:58 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 07:14:58 +0800 Subject: Is it Keynes or Is it .... ? (fwd) Message-ID: <199810162255.RAA32566@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 16:09:02 -0400 > From: Robert Hettinga > Subject: Is it Keynes or Is it .... ? > Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:12:55 EDT > From: Hayek-L List Host > Subject: Is it Keynes or Is it .... ? > "A year or so from now, it will be difficult to find > a single person who admits ever having believed > that a global free market is a sensible way of > running the world economy No global economy is a good economy, by its very definition it is a monopoly and contrary to the entire precip of free-market pundits. A free-market is exclusively a *local* market. > laissez-faire was short-lived .. The free market came > about in England as a result not of slow evolution No it didn't, it's the basic economic structure that everything else gets built on. You start out with a completely free-market and build from there. Free markets are for cavepeople. > but swiftly, as a consequence of the unremitting use > of the power of the state .. The free market > withered away gradually, thought the natural workings > of democratic political competition ... No, human psychology is what kills it. > century England illustrates a vital truth: Democracy and > the free market are rivals, not allies. Duh. Economics has nothing to do with civil liberties or crimes. One of the failures in current political and economic thought is the necessity for the *government* to regulate the money. It isn't a new belief either since it is embodies in our Constitution. What is required for a free-market is a mechanism for 'fair competition'. The problem is there is no way under a free-market to define fair or competition. > problematic relationship. The normal concomitant > of free markets is not stable democratic government > but the volatile -- and not always democratic -- politics > of economic insecurity. This is circular reasoning. A free-market is not compatible to democracy (of course not since a free-market requires two party economic contracts exculsively) but is compatible with a market that is solely stabalized by economic (in)security (which is a free-market economy after all). > History exemplifies an equally important fact: > Free market economies lack built-in stabilizers. > Without effective management by government, > they are liable to recurrent booms and busts -- > with all their costs in social cohesion and > political stability. Duh... > .. But is was also a consequence of governments' > holding to an orthodoxy that believed that so Governments *are* a form of orthodoxy, they don't hold onto it since they embody the concepts of orthodoxy. > long as inflation is under control the economy > can be relied upon to be self-regulating ,,," Nobody with half-a-clue believe this. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody at replay.com Fri Oct 16 16:26:47 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 07:26:47 +0800 Subject: Happy Birthday to Convicted Child Molester Gary Burnore In-Reply-To: <199810140550.HAA15476@replay.com> Message-ID: <199810162251.AAA06073@replay.com> gburnore at databasix.com (Gary L. Burnore) whined: > >[snip out-of-date, erroneous sex offender registration] He means you're an ignorant asswipe who shouldn't have told the North Carolina authorities of your child molestation conviction in California. Too late for that, and nuking the page on NC registered sex offenders' site doesn't make your criminal conviction go away retroactively. > More likely the one and only anonymous asshole. AKA RFG at monkeys.com > Ignore him. He goes away. "One and only" ... wow! But if claim to know his identity, then he isn't anonymous. Make up your little perverted mind. As for ignoring him, you just can't take your own advice, can you? Just because you're pissed that someone anonymously blew the whistle on your pederasty in Santa Clara, CA by informing your victim's mother and school officials is no reason for such ad hominem. You were busted fair and square, and your own guilty plea sealed your fate. BTW, did you ever ask yourself how this "RFG" character would have known that you were screwing your live-in girlfriend's daughter behind her back, if he's "the one and only anonymous asshole"? Getting sexual predators like you identified so that your neighbors with children can keep an eye on you is reason enough for anonymous remailers to exist, given your history of harassment against anyone who dares to criticize you. From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Fri Oct 16 17:27:26 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 08:27:26 +0800 Subject: CL: The Economist on Giddens, Hayek & the LSE (fwd) Message-ID: <199810162359.SAA00011@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 18:50:16 -0400 > From: Robert Hettinga > Subject: CL: The Economist on Giddens, Hayek & the LSE > Beware of socialists pitching new paradigms. Or (the only good thing Reagen ever said), Trust, but verify. > must stand. This book is awesomely, magisterially and in some ways > disturbingly vacuous. ... > Prodi, the prime minister of Italy, plan to conduct in New York on September > 23rd. Is anyone going or know if the various discussions will be made available? > on "five dilemmas". In merciful summary, these are (i) that globalisation > is changing the meanings of nationhood, government and sovereignty. There > exists This is the definition of 'civilization', an effect that is clearly observable by studying history. The relationship between citizen and state depends on (among other things) speed of communication (or transport), and resource control. As the speed of transport increases nations have a tendency to homogenize or share cultural traits (not to mention genes). As time goes by the nations change size and number in relation to resource control, normaly you get a few large countries and lots of smaller ones. As time goes by you'll see more and more of the smaller nations forming combines, hegemonies, balkans, etc. This tendency drives the globalization of human culture. It is a basic aspect of human greed to want the whole shebang. That is a result of humans being social in nature, and having a fundamental neurosis about self. What finaly determines if one or more nations will exist is the general growth rates of each fundamentaly (and this is a bitch to describe to any precision) different national/social/psychological type. As long as none of them have a growth rate that is hyperbolic in nature (ie infinite magnitude in finite time) then a multiplicity of such 'nations' will continue to exist. A fundamental question should be what and how to measure the growth rates of nations within this context? There also needs to be a fundamental distinction between government and business, as is made with religions. Businesses need to be regulated but it should be by a indipendant political system from that defining civil issues regarding individuals. There should also be a distinct funding system which is also indipendant, but responsible for providing all funding for the other political agents. It would be regulated by some sort of representative system whereby people could elect various officials to select the process through a representative system. In short, every political entity in a government should consist of publicly elected officials with appropriate support staff. There should be strictly enforced and relatively short-lived term limits. A distinction in allowable forces for a government to use between exterior (army) threats and internal civil disturbance (militia), and nary the two should meet or ever be involved in day to day law enforcement. In regards the civil branch of the above (ie executive, legislative, judiciary) the executive branch should also be some sort of elected panel, the concept of an individual representative needs to die a deserved death. Personaly I like the idea of a panel of single representatives from each state. > (2) a "new individualism" that is not necessarily selfish but which > means that social solidarity can no longer be imposed in a top-down way. It's about time. I believe that a study of polyocracies would provide a much better model for a democratic system. I've come to the conclusion that the best way to deal with human culture is to base everything on the fundamental issue of individual distinction, this is what it means for all people to be created equal. > of problems-such as global warming, devolution, the future of the European > Union-about which it is unhelpful to think in terms of left versus right. That's because nature is by its very nature apolitical. Politics will regulate human society, it won't control it. > (4) Some jobs (defence, lawmaking) can be done only by governments, even No, they can only be done by a monopoly. If they don't then the sorts of social institutions we normaly talk about can't exist. > though politicians are becoming less influential and pressure groups more > effective. Which sortta balances out thankfuly... > should be no rights without responsibilities; that the protection of children > is the most important bit of family policy; Does he extrapolate this to some sort of all-encompassing social authorization for government intervention as is currently trying to be implimented? that society should be "inclusive" > but not "strongly egalitarian"; Which means what? We let people in but we don't treat them like they live here? that constitutions should aim for openness > and transparency; What the hell does that mean? > that there may be a case for a world criminal court; Only if nations aren't responsible for their own citizens... I'd like to see the day when one nation sues another in a world court for harms against their citizens...if the proposed system will require this as easily as a single nation dropping on a single individual then it won't work. > that there is a need to control excessive overshoots in financial markets > but that the nature of these controls is "problematic"; that . . Don't fall for the 'bigger is better' school of economics. Individualy stable markets should be highly regional, probably not national and most definitely not global. Stability comes from a voluntary long-term relationship between participants. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From guy at panix.com Fri Oct 16 18:08:19 1998 From: guy at panix.com (Information Security) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 09:08:19 +0800 Subject: "Annihilating less-than-useful contributors" Message-ID: <199810170038.UAA04041@panix7.panix.com> [ snipped, see full article at Declan's new site ] # http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/15611.html # # 5:45 p.m. 14.Oct.98.PDT # SAN FRANCISCO -- Science fiction author Bruce Sterling # acknowledges that he isn't a programmer, or even a # contributor to the kind of openly developed software project # [Apache] that brought his audience together on Wednesday. # ... # Using a fictional example of people gathered online around # their interest in "freakish, left-handed mollusks," he said # collaborative software is needed that liberates the creative # power of the best people and "annihilates the counterproductive." # According to Sterling, the latter includes idiots, spammers, # and less-than-useful contributors. # ... # Sterling envisions an "online utopia" that would occur if # Web- and email-leveraging software were automatically # moderated. # ... # "If you could do this, you could advance knowledge," he said. # The Net and the collaboration it enables would be able to add # to the sum of human knowledge. # ... # Successful implementation of such a concept, Sterling said, # is critical to the success of the Net as a so-called "gift # economy".... [This] economy should function more like an # [actual] economy," he said. A differing set of rewards should # be returned for a differing set of efforts. From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Fri Oct 16 18:55:05 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 09:55:05 +0800 Subject: Cyptography in the Information Age (fwd) Message-ID: <199810170135.UAA00383@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 21:08:14 -0400 > Subject: Cyptography in the Information Age > From: steve.benjamin at juno.com (Stephen Benjamin) > My paper will contain a 6-line (perl) implemenation of > RSA. Is my report subject to current Encryption Laws? > If so, which ones? I plan on making a big deal out of > how a 15 page research paper can't be exported from the U.S.A. The paper itself isn't subject to export restrictions at this point in time as I understand it. Now if you included a barcode, floppy, or some other machine readable/executable then that media would be under restrictions. > Also, How can I generate RSA keys in perl? > I found a C program to do it, but I don't have C installed. Now you get to learn how to translate... ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Fri Oct 16 18:55:59 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 09:55:59 +0800 Subject: "Annihilating less-than-useful contributors" (fwd) Message-ID: <199810170132.UAA00278@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: Information Security > Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 20:38:51 -0400 (EDT) > Subject: "Annihilating less-than-useful contributors" > # their interest in "freakish, left-handed mollusks," he said > # collaborative software is needed that liberates the creative > # power of the best people and "annihilates the counterproductive." > # According to Sterling, the latter includes idiots, spammers, > # and less-than-useful contributors. > # ... > # Sterling envisions an "online utopia" that would occur if > # Web- and email-leveraging software were automatically > # moderated. > # ... > # "If you could do this, you could advance knowledge," he said. > # The Net and the collaboration it enables would be able to add > # to the sum of human knowledge. Assuming, without statement of course, that we know what information is important *before* we know it exists and we need it...the same old failure of all utopianist...they assume one size fits all. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From steve.benjamin at juno.com Fri Oct 16 18:56:19 1998 From: steve.benjamin at juno.com (Stephen Benjamin) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 09:56:19 +0800 Subject: Cyptography in the Information Age Message-ID: <19981016.210815.-1026785.0.Steve.Benjamin@juno.com> X-Posted: sci.crypt, cypherpunks mailing list For my Advanced Computer Science course in school I'm required to do a research paper each quarter. I have decided to do this quarter's paper on Cyptography in the Information Age. My paper will contain a 6-line (perl) implemenation of RSA. Is my report subject to current Encryption Laws? If so, which ones? I plan on making a big deal out of how a 15 page research paper can't be exported from the U.S.A. Also, How can I generate RSA keys in perl? I found a C program to do it, but I don't have C installed. Thanks for any help you can give me! and please reply through e-mail! ---------------------------------------------------------- Stephen Benjamin E-mail address: Stephen {DOT} Benjamin {AT} juno {DOT} com ---------------------------------------------------------- From jya at pipeline.com Fri Oct 16 20:05:42 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 11:05:42 +0800 Subject: CJ Indicted Message-ID: Court docket shows that CJ has been indicted for: 18:115A.F Threaten to Murder certain Federal Law Enforcement Officers and Judges This is in addition to the original complaint: For Violation of 18:115(a)(1)(B): Threatening to assassin IRA officers Yes, it says "assassin IRA." The other humor is that upon indictment for criminal charges on September 30 a bench warrant was issued for CJ's arrest. The arrest warrant was "returned unexecuted" on October 9, due to "warrant issued in error" by the same magistrate who issued the first arrest warrant on August 5, apparently forgetting or not knowing that CypherAssassin2 was mental evaluing with CypherAssassin1 in MO. See the docket: http://jya.com/cej101498.htm BTW, on why Jim Bell and CJ stopped over in OKC on the way to Springfield, we've learned that the Federal Transportation Center is in OKC. It so happens that the Bureau of Prisons issued a wad of rules and regs today just to handle the growing crowd of alleged IRA-Nobelists and international Chuckies: http://jya.com/bop101698.htm From nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl Fri Oct 16 20:32:43 1998 From: nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl (HyperReal-Anon) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 11:32:43 +0800 Subject: Disk (block device) encryption for Linux and *BSD? Message-ID: >Apologies for the interruption, > >I'm looking for disk / partition encryption for Unix-alikes, especially >Linux, OpenBSD and/or NetBSD. Good luck. We're in the same boat. I'm using Andrew Mileski's patches, but they're outdated, only implement CAST-128 and IDEA, and the user interface leaves a lot to be desired. Writing a new user interface is on my project list, but of course I can't export the thing. >My websearch has been less than satisfactory - I found outdated Linux >kernel patches for encryption loopback, and I distinctly remember reading >about a serious bug in the use (or lack thereof) of key material in this >code. Andrew Mileski has patches available via FTP from fractal.mta.ca, but they're very outdated. I think they're against 2.1.64, but they'll run with kernels up to the 90s. Kernels after about 2.1.105 are hopelessly broken with regard to Andrew's patches, so I wouldn't advise even trying it. If you use his patches, use kernel 2.1.105 or below. I think those are in /pub/aem/crypto. >Do patches for a current Linux kernel exist, and have all the known >bugs been fixed? There are several different versions floating around. There was some set of patches on ftp.csua.berkeley.edu but they're outdated too. There was a hole in some DES code somebody was distributing. >Also, there seems to be no version of Marutukku about that I can actually >get to work on *BSD. Is Marutukku still being developed? Again, good luck. >Generally, is there a good page that tracks disk encryption for Unix? > >I'm currently using cfs here and there, and I have a specific question >about that package, too: > >Does the cypherpunks list trust the patches that add Blowfish support >to cfs? Every time I've used CFS it has locked up into some kind of recursive loop where it eats more and more CPU time until it finally takes all it can get. Other people have had the same problem on both Linux and BSD. Other people never have any problems. No clue why. From declan at well.com Fri Oct 16 22:25:39 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 13:25:39 +0800 Subject: Cyptography in the Information Age In-Reply-To: <19981016.210815.-1026785.0.Steve.Benjamin@juno.com> Message-ID: <199810170458.VAA00701@smtp.well.com> Let me know if you get arrested. I'll write about it. -Declan At 09:08 PM 10-16-98 -0400, Stephen Benjamin wrote: >X-Posted: sci.crypt, cypherpunks mailing list > >For my Advanced Computer Science course in school I'm required to do >a research paper each quarter. I have decided to do this quarter's >paper on Cyptography in the Information Age. > >My paper will contain a 6-line (perl) implemenation of >RSA. Is my report subject to current Encryption Laws? >If so, which ones? I plan on making a big deal out of >how a 15 page research paper can't be exported from the U.S.A. > >Also, How can I generate RSA keys in perl? >I found a C program to do it, but I don't have C installed. > >Thanks for any help you can give me! and please reply >through e-mail! > >---------------------------------------------------------- >Stephen Benjamin >E-mail address: Stephen {DOT} Benjamin {AT} juno {DOT} com >---------------------------------------------------------- > From mgraffam at idsi.net Fri Oct 16 23:03:46 1998 From: mgraffam at idsi.net (mgraffam at idsi.net) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 14:03:46 +0800 Subject: PGP utils? Message-ID: Is there a utility for Unix (or source available?) that reads a PGP encrypted message and displays some information on it, like what key ID the message was encrypted with, and what ciphers were used? Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam at idsi.net) http://www.mhv.net/~mgraffam -- Philosophy, Religion, Computers, Crypto, etc They (who) seek to establish systems of government based on the regimentation of all human beings by a handful of individual rulers.. call this a new order. It is not new, and it is not order." - Franklin Delano Roosevelt From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Sat Oct 17 02:38:32 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 17:38:32 +0800 Subject: PGP utils? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199810170848.JAA18425@server.eternity.org> > Is there a utility for Unix (or source available?) that reads a PGP > encrypted message and displays some information on it, like what > key ID the message was encrypted with, and what ciphers were used? Yes, the one I use is PGPacket by Mark Shoulson . It used to be available at: ftp://ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp/utils/ It's written in perl (look for pgpacket.pl) If the version there isn't greater than 3.0 email Mark and ask for the latest version. Version 3 and above can read all the pgp5 packets also. Really useful tool for PGP key tinkering. Adam From mdpopescu at geocities.com Sat Oct 17 04:00:24 1998 From: mdpopescu at geocities.com (Marcel Popescu) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 19:00:24 +0800 Subject: Off-Topic Message-ID: <001101bdf9c0$906950a0$020101df@sorexim.ro> Sorry for the off-topic, but does anybody know of a list related to militias, gun-control and the like? Thanks, Mark From root at sf-dnpqi-012.compuserve.net Sat Oct 17 19:31:04 1998 From: root at sf-dnpqi-012.compuserve.net (8.9 Cent/Min. NO SWITCHING REQUIRED) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 19:31:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: 8.9 cent/min: Dial 1010948 = FREE Registration Offer. 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This toll free remove line may be accessed only ONE TIME per originating phone number. #################################### From chatski at gl.umbc.edu Sat Oct 17 07:34:20 1998 From: chatski at gl.umbc.edu (chatski carl) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 22:34:20 +0800 Subject: IP: Silent Weapon of Mass Destruction In-Reply-To: <199810162207.PAA10003@netcom13.netcom.com> Message-ID: A powerful statement of the obvious, with one important ommission: The United states is the largest researcher, producer, experimenter with, and user of biological weapons. Despite 'honest' Dick Nixon's unilateral pledge in 1972 that the US would not produce offensive BW weapons, they have been doing so, keeping pace with developments in molecular biology. Much research and development is privatized; it is not prohibited for private corporations to develop such weapons. A few observations: The Army has used the term "Ethnic Biological weapons" since the late 60's. There are 2 kinds of BW weapons development: o battlefield weapons o weapons of class warfare ( suitable for covert long term use against all or subsets of the civilian population ). And finally as one observes "new" diseases, one should remember that the main thrust of the major BW research since the end of wwII, has been against the immune system ... so that no defense can be mounted. On Fri, 16 Oct 1998, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote: >........ > Microorganisms, it should be noted, are a very inexpensive > way to exterminate entire populations. Above all, many > microorganisms can be cheaply grown, each having its own > unique uses. As stressed by Carl Yaeger of Utah Valley State > College and Steven Fustero, IACSP Director of Operations, > this is a great advantage in deciding the effect wished to be > brought about on the section of the population at which the > attack is directed. Since the organisms are capable of rapid > reproduction, only a small amount is required to infect a very > large area. >.... > But possibly more interesting than the large area to be > infected is the selectivity. With the development of biochemistry > and genetic engineering, it might be possible to target ethnic > groups ....... >.......... > Still another advantage could be secrecy and concealment. > Limited attacks could be carried out secretly before open > "hostilities" even began. As you can see, a whole new age of > warfare is beginning. According to an excellent PBS "Frontline" > documentary aired this week, the Soviet Union, even under > Mikhail Gorbachev, had already broken an international > agreement restricting chemical and biological weapons. - Carl From jdobruck at kki.net.pl Sat Oct 17 07:57:13 1998 From: jdobruck at kki.net.pl (Jan Dobrucki) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 22:57:13 +0800 Subject: "Annihilating less-than-useful contributors" (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810170132.UAA00278@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <3628B55C.C805239B@kki.net.pl> "Annihilating less-than-useful contributors"... WOW... :-() when I first read this I though that someone was going to kick me of this list... ;-) Then I read the article and I relaxed a little... JD -- Wyslano za posrednictwem bezplatnego serwera KKI Krakowski Komercyjny Internet - http://www.kki.net.pl To jest miejsce na reklame Twojej firmy! From billstewart at att.com Sat Oct 17 23:11:15 1998 From: billstewart at att.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 23:11:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: More on Postel Message-ID: <36298670.B1A@att.com> Subject: IP: Remembrance/postel From: Dave Farber [farber at cis.upenn.edu] I, and others I fear, have spent a sleepless night after hearing of the death of Jon Postel last night. This morning there was a note in my mail box from Vint Cerf that said many of the things I feel at this time. I asked him for permission to send on which he granted. I also remember Jon. I was his primary thesis advisor along with Jerry Estrin and I remember with fond memories the months spent closely working with Jon while his eager mind developed the ideas in back of what was a pioneering thesis that founded the area of protocol verification. Since I was at UC Irvine and Jon at UCLA we used to meet in the morning prior to my ride to UCI at a Pancake House in Santa Monica for breakfast and the hard work of developing a thesis. I gained a great respect for Jon then and 10 pounds of weight. I will miss him greatly. Jon was my second Ph.D. student. The first, Philip Merlin, also died way before his time. Dave ________________________________________________________________________ October 17, 1998 I REMEMBER IANA Vint Cerf A long time ago, in a network, far far away, a great adventure took place� Out of the chaos of new ideas for communication, the experiments, the tentative designs, and crucible of testing, there emerged a cornucopia of networks. Beginning with the ARPANET, an endless stream of networks evolved, and ultimately were interlinked to become the Internet. Someone had to keep track of all the protocols, the identifiers, networks and addresses and ultimately the names of all the things in the networked universe. And someone had to keep track of all the information that erupted with volcanic force from the intensity of the debates and discussions and endless invention that has continued unabated for 30 years. That someone was Jonathan B. Postel, our Internet Assigned Numbers Authority, friend, engineer, confidant, leader, icon, and now, first of the giants to depart from our midst. Jon, our beloved IANA, is gone. Even as I write these words I cannot quite grasp this stark fact. We had almost lost him once before in 1991. Surely we knew he was at risk as are we all. But he had been our rock, the foundation on which our every web search and email was built, always there to mediate the random dispute, to remind us when our documentation did not do justice to its subject, to make difficult decisions with apparent ease, and to consult when careful consideration was needed. We will survive our loss and we will remember. He has left a monumental legacy for all Internauts to contemplate. Steadfast service for decades, moving when others seemed paralyzed, always finding the right course in a complex minefield of technical and sometimes political obstacles. Jon and I went to the same high school, Van Nuys High, in the San Fernando Valley north of Los Angeles. But we were in different classes and I really didn�t know him then. Our real meeting came at UCLA when we became a part of a group of graduate students working for Prof. Leonard Kleinrock on the ARPANET project. Steve Crocker was another of the Van Nuys crowd who was part of the team and led the development of the first host-host protocols for the ARPANET. When Steve invented the idea of the Request for Comments series, Jon became the instant editor. When we needed to keep track of all the hosts and protocol identifiers, Jon volunteered to be the Numbers Czar and later the IANA once the Internet was in place. Jon was a founding member of the Internet Architecture Board and served continuously from its founding to the present. He was the FIRST individual member of the Internet Society I know, because he and Steve Wolff raced to see who could fill out the application forms and make payment first and Jon won. He served as a trustee of the Internet Society. He was the custodian of the .US domain, a founder of the Los Nettos Internet service, and, by the way, managed the networking research division of USC Information Sciences Institute. Jon loved the outdoors. I know he used to enjoy backpacking in the high Sierras around Yosemite. Bearded and sandaled, Jon was our resident hippie-patriarch at UCLA. He was a private person but fully capable of engaging photon torpedoes and going to battle stations in a good engineering argument. And he could be stubborn beyond all expectation. He could have outwaited the Sphinx in a staring contest, I think. Jon inspired loyalty and steadfast devotion among his friends and his colleagues. For me, he personified the words �selfless service.� For nearly 30 years, Jon has served us all, taken little in return, indeed sometimes receiving abuse when he should have received our deepest appreciation. It was particularly gratifying at the last Internet Society meeting in Geneva to see Jon receive the Silver Medal of the International Telecommunications Union. It is an award generally reserved for Heads of State but I can think of no one more deserving of global recognition for his contributions. While it seems almost impossible to avoid feeling an enormous sense of loss, as if a yawning gap in our networked universe had opened up and swallowed our friend, I must tell you that I am comforted as I contemplate what Jon has wrought. He leaves a legacy of edited documents that tell our collective Internet story, including not only the technical but also the poetic and whimsical as well. He completed the incorporation of a successor to his service as IANA and leaves a lasting legacy of service to the community in that role. His memory is rich and vibrant and will not fade from our collective consciousness. �What would Jon have done?� we will think, as we wrestle in the days ahead with the problems Jon kept so well tamed for so many years. There will almost surely be many memorials to Jon�s monumental service to the Internet Community. As current chairman of the Internet Society, I pledge to establish an award in Jon�s name to recognize long-standing service to the community, the Jonathan B. Postel Service Award, which is awarded to Jon posthumously as its first recipient. If Jon were here, I am sure he would urge us not to mourn his passing but to celebrate his life and his contributions. He would remind us that there is still much work to be done and that we now have the responsibility and the opportunity to do our part. I doubt that anyone could possibly duplicate his record, but it stands as a measure of one man�s astonishing contribution to a community he knew and loved. From howree at cable.navy.mil Sat Oct 17 08:19:11 1998 From: howree at cable.navy.mil (Reeza!) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 23:19:11 +0800 Subject: Off-Topic In-Reply-To: <001101bdf9c0$906950a0$020101df@sorexim.ro> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981018004316.0084c100@205.83.192.13> At 01:23 PM 10/17/98 +0200, Marcel Popescu wrote: >Sorry for the off-topic, but does anybody know of a list related to >militias, gun-control and the like? > >Thanks, >Mark > Sure. Try alt.gun-nut.psycho.felon.wannabe. be sure to Cc: the IRS, NSA, FBI, CIA, NSU, ICQ and SS. Enjoy your newfound status as 3l33t and to be f34r3d!!! Gee, Hey Tim, perhaps you could provide directions in technicolor like you did for the bag lady not long ago. Oh, BTW Mr. Popescu, Pppttthhuuuuu!!!!!! Fear has a scent and Money has a color, but Stupid walks right up and slaps you in the face, Every time. -- me, I think. From jf_avon at citenet.net Sat Oct 17 09:31:43 1998 From: jf_avon at citenet.net (Jean-Francois Avon) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 00:31:43 +0800 Subject: Fwd: AUCRYPTO: for distrib. (fwd) Message-ID: <199810171556.LAA01453@cti06.citenet.net> ==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE================== >From: Darren Reed >Message-Id: <199810160852.SAA04406 at avalon.reed.wattle.id.au> >Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 18:52:47 +1000 (EST) >Reply-To: aucrypto at suburbia.net >To: aucrypto at suburbia.net >X-Mailing-List: >Subject: AUCRYPTO: for distrib. (fwd) I read this today and thought it might be of general interest. Darren > The public key > > The perception of people losing their privacy has hit the mainstream. ABC > News began a series on October 5th entitled Privacy Lost. > > Operation Echelon, if you haven't heard of it yet you will once mainstream > media gets a hold of it. We began reading about this and the more > information we found the more we began to think George Orwell worked for the > NSA [USA National Security Agency ]. When all the details surface we > may find that big brother really does > exist and has for some time. The NSA reportedly worked closely with other > security agencies to build an interception network. This network is so vast > that it can supposedly intercept every electronic communication on the > planet. The ramifications of this network existing we think will be far > reaching and go a long way to forming online privacy policy in the future. > > The NSA was also nice enough to provide us with our next topic as well. It > appears that up until a few years ago the NSA had a clandestine agreement > with a Swiss cryptography company, Crypto AG. Crypto AG also at one time > provided most of the encryption equipment used at the diplomatic level > around the world. What's special about this is, the agreement allowed the > NSA to embed key-recovery devices inside products sold to other countries. > The NSA could read the information transmitted with these products as easily > as reading the newspaper. This was an ongoing process until March 1992, > when Iranian counterintelligence agents arrested a marketing representative > from Crypto AG on suspicion of spying. The battle for privacy continues. ===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE=================== Jean-Francois Avon, B.Sc. Physics, Montreal, Canada DePompadour, Soci�t� d'Importation Lt�e Limoges fine porcelain and french crystal JFA Technologies, R&D physicists & engineers Instrumentation & control, LabView programming PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C From rah at shipwright.com Sat Oct 17 10:53:21 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 01:53:21 +0800 Subject: Jon Postel Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 11:32:10 -0400 Reply-To: wb8foz at nrk.com Originator: com-priv at lists.psi.com Sender: com-priv at lists.psi.com Precedence: bulk From: David Lesher To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Jon Postel X-Comment: Commercialization and Privatization of the Internet died last night.... You might want to read Vin Cerf's thoughts on David Farber's Interesting people list...... -- A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz at nrk.com & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433 --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Sat Oct 17 11:26:13 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 02:26:13 +0800 Subject: Jon Postel (fwd) Message-ID: <199810171758.MAA01943@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 12:39:35 -0400 > From: Robert Hettinga > Subject: Jon Postel > You might want to read Vin Cerf's thoughts on David Farber's > Interesting people list...... Pray tell how?... ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rah at shipwright.com Sat Oct 17 11:30:11 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 02:30:11 +0800 Subject: Now *this* is funny... Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Delivered-To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com X-Sender: believer at telepath.com Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 11:06:07 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Fake Message Sends AOL E-Mail Astray Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Precedence: list Reply-To: believer at telepath.com Source: Washington Post http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/washtech/wtech001.htm Fake Message Sends AOL E-Mail Astray By Leslie Walker Washington Post Staff Writer Friday, October 16, 1998 A fake e-mail sent to the keeper of the Internet's global address book yesterday erased America Online Inc.'s spot on the global computer network, causing thousands of incoming e-mails to go to the wrong place and preventing many people from visiting AOL's World Wide Web site. AOL officials said all the misdirected e-mail should show up eventually in the correct mailboxes. But the incident highlighted a security issue involving how the central addresses known as domains are administered on the Internet. The incident began before 5 a.m. when someone impersonating an AOL official sent e-mail to InterNIC, the Herndon organization that maintains the domain name registry for the Internet, InterNIC spokesman Christopher Clough said. The message requested the electronic address of AOL's domain be changed. Because AOL had chosen the lowest of three security levels possible for making such a change, it was made automatically, with no review by any person at Network Solutions Inc., the company that runs InterNIC, Clough said. The new address assigned was that of Autonet.net, an Internet service provider. Mail meant for AOL automatically was diverted to Autonet, overwhelming computers at the service. In AOL's network monitoring center in Dulles, people monitoring traffic volumes noticed a drop in the volume of e-mail coming in from the Internet. They began investigating and found the change, AOL spokeswoman Ann Brackbill said. AOL rented a computer to lend to Autonet.net yesterday to reroute the e-mail back to AOL while company officials simultaneously working with InterNIC to correct AOL's address, Brackbill said. AOL's actual Internet domain - AOL.com - was not changed, but the directions the Internet uses in sending Web surfers there were changed because of the fraudulent e-mail, so they couldn't get to the site. Instead, error messages appeared on their screens. "It's like if the phone book published the wrong address for AAA, and you went there to get a map," Brackbill said. "You wouldn't be able to get anything." Clough said the e-mail came as a form message that was accepted automatically because it appeared to come from the correct person and address at AOL.com that was authorized to change AOL's InterNIC records. Computer buffs call an incident of this kind "a spoof" - an impersonation of someone by e-mail. By 4:30 p.m., AOL's address had been corrected in the main Internet address book, but it often takes hours for changes to travel throughout the global network, Clough said. AOL officials estimated that 12 percent to 15 percent of its e-mail was affected Only about half of AOL's e-mail traffic comes from the Internet; the other half is internal. In addition, 10 percent to 20 percent of the people trying to access its Web site received error messages. AOL officials asked InterNIC yesterday to change the security level for its domain name records. The two higher levels available - and apparently used by most commercial Internet operations - involve either a password or encryption in the request for a change to the address. Brackbill couldn't explain why AOL chose the lowest security level, except to note that the record was created "a long time ago." "We've never had a problem before with this and our goal is to make sure we don't have it again," she said. AOL is cooperating with law enforcement officials to identify the culprit. � Copyright The Washington Post Company ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From stuffed at stuffed.net Sun Oct 18 03:22:46 1998 From: stuffed at stuffed.net (STUFFED SUN OCT 18) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 03:22:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: EVEN MORE FREE PORN: STUFFED HAS 10 LINKS TO 100S OF FREE PICS, NEW EVERY DAY Message-ID: <19981018071001.15053.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com> + 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS + 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES + DISCO XXX + FREE GIRL SEX + NAKED N NASTY + GENERATION PORN + VIRTUAL EXTACY + TALENT SEARCH + ADRIA'S FRIENDS + STIFF ONE EYE + SWEET ASIAN PUSSY + BITCHES IN HEAT + BONUS PIC 1 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/7649.htm + BONUS PIC 2 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/31232.htm + BONUS PIC 3 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/2818.htm + BONUS PIC 4 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/2708.htm + BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/28665.htm + MUCH, MUCH MORE! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- If you haven't visited STUFFED in the last few days, you're in for a real treat. It's faster than ever before and now, as a subscriber, you get 35 FREE new pics every day, plus over 100 more at carefully selected FREE sites we link to. This email is never sent unsolicited. Stuffed is the supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full instructions on unsubscribing are in every issue of Eureka! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- From jya at pipeline.com Sun Oct 18 04:36:31 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 04:36:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: 2nd Report on Political Control Technologies Message-ID: <199810181136.HAA08061@camel7.mindspring.com> Forward: Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 11:26:38 +0200 To: jya at pipeline.com From: Marie-Jose Klaver Subject: Second report An Appraisal of Technologies of Political Control I'm a Dutch journalist, working for NRC Handelsblad, one of the major newspapers in the Netherlands. I've been reporting about the STOA report An Appraisal of Technologies of Political Control since last February. A second report came out last month. I got a copy a few days ago from the Omega Foundation and had an article about it in NRC Handelsblad today. This second report has interesting information about the so called EU-FBI global surveillance plan. According to a secret memorandum the EU countries have agreed with the FBI to intercept all European datacommunication. To do this some EU countries like Holland and Germany changed their laws to make broad wiretapping and interception of Internet and other datacommunication possible. Germany changed its constitution in the beginning of this year and in Holland a law was made and accepted by both chambers of the Parliament that obliges all firms with computer and communication networks (providers, telco's, newspapers etc.) to make their systems tappable. You can read the second report at: http://www.nrc.nl/W2/Lab/Echelon/stoa2sept1998.html [104K] Marie-Jose Klaver NRC Handelsblad http://www.nrc.nl/W2/Lab/Echelon ---------- There's much new information in the report, especially on the US export of political control technologies which complements Amnesty International's recent critique of US violations of human rights, as well as the US Bureau of Prisons reorganization, all to accommodate the rise in domestic and foreign freedom fighters, oops, terrorists, as global Justice and Defense agencies characterize naysayers to bloated organs of dysfunctional cracies. From jim at acm.org Sat Oct 17 15:23:09 1998 From: jim at acm.org (Jim Gillogly) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 06:23:09 +0800 Subject: Jon Postel Message-ID: <36291493.3C7CC0D8@acm.org> Hettinga: >> You might want to read Vin[t] Cerf's thoughts on David Farber's >> Interesting people list...... Choate: > Pray tell how?... ----------forwarded from Dave Farber's IP list------------ Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 07:28:40 -0400 From: Dave Farber Subject: IP: Remembrance/postel I, and others I fear, have spent a sleepless night after hearing of the death of Jon Postel last night. This morning there was a note in my mail box from Vint Cerf that said many of the things I feel at this time. I asked him for permission to send on which he granted. I also remember Jon. I was his primary thesis advisor along with Jerry Estrin and I remember with fond memories the months spent closely working with Jon while his eager mind developed the ideas in back of what was a pioneering thesis that founded the area of protocol verification. Since I was at UC Irvine and Jon at UCLA we used to meet in the morning prior to my ride to UCI at a Pancake House in Santa Monica for breakfast and the hard work of developing a thesis. I gained a great respect for Jon then and 10 pounds of weight. I will miss him greatly. Jon was my second Ph.D. student. The first, Philip Merlin, also died way before his time. Dave ________________________________________________________________________ October 17, 1998 I REMEMBER IANA Vint Cerf A long time ago, in a network, far far away, a great adventure took place? Out of the chaos of new ideas for communication, the experiments, the tentative designs, and crucible of testing, there emerged a cornucopia of networks. Beginning with the ARPANET, an endless stream of networks evolved, and ultimately were interlinked to become the Internet. Someone had to keep track of all the protocols, the identifiers, networks and addresses and ultimately the names of all the things in the networked universe. And someone had to keep track of all the information that erupted with volcanic force from the intensity of the debates and discussions and endless invention that has continued unabated for 30 years. That someone was Jonathan B. Postel, our Internet Assigned Numbers Authority, friend, engineer, confidant, leader, icon, and now, first of the giants to depart from our midst. Jon, our beloved IANA, is gone. Even as I write these words I cannot quite grasp this stark fact. We had almost lost him once before in 1991. Surely we knew he was at risk as are we all. But he had been our rock, the foundation on which our every web search and email was built, always there to mediate the random dispute, to remind us when our documentation did not do justice to its subject, to make difficult decisions with apparent ease, and to consult when careful consideration was needed. We will survive our loss and we will remember. He has left a monumental legacy for all Internauts to contemplate. Steadfast service for decades, moving when others seemed paralyzed, always finding the right course in a complex minefield of technical and sometimes political obstacles. Jon and I went to the same high school, Van Nuys High, in the San Fernando Valley north of Los Angeles. But we were in different classes and I really didn?t know him then. Our real meeting came at UCLA when we became a part of a group of graduate students working for Prof. Leonard Kleinrock on the ARPANET project. Steve Crocker was another of the Van Nuys crowd who was part of the team and led the development of the first host-host protocols for the ARPANET. When Steve invented the idea of the Request for Comments series, Jon became the instant editor. When we needed to keep track of all the hosts and protocol identifiers, Jon volunteered to be the Numbers Czar and later the IANA once the Internet was in place. Jon was a founding member of the Internet Architecture Board and served continuously from its founding to the present. He was the FIRST individual member of the Internet Society I know, because he and Steve Wolff raced to see who could fill out the application forms and make payment first and Jon won. He served as a trustee of the Internet Society. He was the custodian of the .US domain, a founder of the Los Nettos Internet service, and, by the way, managed the networking research division of USC Information Sciences Institute. Jon loved the outdoors. I know he used to enjoy backpacking in the high Sierras around Yosemite. Bearded and sandaled, Jon was our resident hippie-patriarch at UCLA. He was a private person but fully capable of engaging photon torpedoes and going to battle stations in a good engineering argument. And he could be stubborn beyond all expectation. He could have outwaited the Sphinx in a staring contest, I think. Jon inspired loyalty and steadfast devotion among his friends and his colleagues. For me, he personified the words ?selfless service.? For nearly 30 years, Jon has served us all, taken little in return, indeed sometimes receiving abuse when he should have received our deepest appreciation. It was particularly gratifying at the last Internet Society meeting in Geneva to see Jon receive the Silver Medal of the International Telecommunications Union. It is an award generally reserved for Heads of State but I can think of no one more deserving of global recognition for his contributions. While it seems almost impossible to avoid feeling an enormous sense of loss, as if a yawning gap in our networked universe had opened up and swallowed our friend, I must tell you that I am comforted as I contemplate what Jon has wrought. He leaves a legacy of edited documents that tell our collective Internet story, including not only the technical but also the poetic and whimsical as well. He completed the incorporation of a successor to his service as IANA and leaves a lasting legacy of service to the community in that role. His memory is rich and vibrant and will not fade from our collective consciousness. ?What would Jon have done?? we will think, as we wrestle in the days ahead with the problems Jon kept so well tamed for so many years. There will almost surely be many memorials to Jon?s monumental service to the Internet Community. As current chairman of the Internet Society, I pledge to establish an award in Jon?s name to recognize long-standing service to the community, the Jonathan B. Postel Service Award, which is awarded to Jon posthumously as its first recipient. If Jon were here, I am sure he would urge us not to mourn his passing but to celebrate his life and his contributions. He would remind us that there is still much work to be done and that we now have the responsibility and the opportunity to do our part. I doubt that anyone could possibly duplicate his record, but it stands as a measure of one man?s astonishing contribution to a community he knew and loved. ----------end of forward from Dave Farber's IP list---------- -- Jim Gillogly Hevensday, 26 Winterfilth S.R. 1998, 22:01 12.19.5.10.19, 10 Cauac 12 Yax, Third Lord of Night From ventas at miller.com.mx Sun Oct 18 07:03:50 1998 From: ventas at miller.com.mx (ventas at miller.com.mx) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 07:03:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: >>¡Dinero con Traducciones!<< Message-ID: <19981018143140759.AAS234@miller.com.mx> /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// This Message was Composed using Extractor Pro Bulk E- Mail Software. If you wish to be removed from this advertiser's future mailings, please reply with the subject "Remove" and this software will automatically block you from their future mailings. //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Usted que se dedica a realizar traducciones de idiomas; o que de alguna manera se encuentra relacionado con esta profesion, el siguiente mensaje puede darle a ganar bastante dinero: GANE MILES DE DOLARES COMERCIALIZANDO SU SERVICIOS POR INTERNET. Utilice el Correo Masivo, Los Clasificados y los Grupos de Discusion para publicitar sus productos o servicios y obtener GRANDES INGRESOS de forma inmediata. Solicite informes GRATIS insertando "BIZ" en el subject/asunto o visite nuestra pagina en: http://www.miller.com.mx/biz.html A todos nuestros visitantes se les obsequiara un programa software con el que puede dise�ar su propia pagina Web en 15 minutos. Busque este programa bajo la liga "Software GRATIS" Saludos Alberto Martinez From vznuri at netcom.com Sat Oct 17 17:51:33 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 08:51:33 +0800 Subject: IP: FCC To Propose Resolving Digital Wiretap Debate Message-ID: <199810180033.RAA27280@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: FCC To Propose Resolving Digital Wiretap Debate Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 06:07:00 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com Forwarded: --------------- Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 01:37:23 -0500 From: Kepi Subject: FCC To Propose Resolving Digital Wiretap Debate Source: Yahoo! News Friday October 16 3:00 PM EDT FCC To Propose Resolving Digital Wiretap Debate By Aaron Pressman WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Federal Communications Commission next week will propose requiring telephone companies to make a series of changes to give law enforcement agencies additional wiretapping capabilities, people familiar with the plan said. The proposal, which will only be issued for comment and could be changed, seeks to resolve the long-running dispute between the telephone industry, privacy advocates and the FBI over terms of the 1994 Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act. The law was intended to preserve the FBI's ability to conduct wiretaps as telephone carriers introduced new digital technology making traditional alligator clip-and-wire approaches obsolete. But the law also sought to maintain the existing limits on wiretapping authority that protect the privacy of ordinary citizens. Much to the chagrin of privacy groups, the FCC's preliminary proposal would require wireless telephone carriers to turn over to law enforcers the location of a mobile phone user at the beginning and end of a tapped call, people familiar with the plan said. ``From a privacy protection perspective, the tracking question is tremendously important,'' said Jim Dempsey, senior staff counsel at the Center for Democracy and Technology, a nonprofit privacy group in Washington. ``Congress never would have passed this legislation if they thought they were turning cell phones into tracking devices,'' added Dempsey, who as a congressional staffer helped draft the law. But, heeding the call of privacy advocates, the FCC proposal will urge further study concerning the way digital calling information is turned over to law enforcers. Under current law, the police must give a judge evidence of probable cause of criminal activity to get permission to tap a call. But to get basic routing information, such as what numbers were called from a particular phone, the police need show only that the information might be relevant to an investigation, a much lower standard. In digital calling networks, however, a call is split up into tiny data packets that contain both the voice transmission and routing and signaling information. An industry proposal last year would have turned over to police entire packets of information, including both the routing data and the actual call itself, when just basic routing information was authorized. The FCC proposal will seek to determine if a more limited method of handing over just routing information would be feasible. The FBI has already rejected as inadequate the industry proposal that included the cell phone location and full packet disclosure provisions. The agency asked the FCC to require carriers to add another nine capabilities, such as the ability to continue listening to a conference call even if the caller being tapped hangs up. The FCC proposal recommends some but not all of the nine items should be added to phone networks, but also asked for further comments on all nine items. The industry fears refitting existing equipment to add those capabilities will cost billions of dollars. Their fears were confirmed in a recent letter from Attorney General Janet Reno and FBI Director Louis Freeh to Congress, dated Oct. 6, and obtained by Reuters, that conceded the costs could reach $2 billion. Industry participants were pleased that the FCC was moving to address the issues, though. ``We have not seen the details yet but we're pleased the FCC is moving forward,'' Jeff Cohen, a spokesman for the Personal Communications Industry Association, said. Copyright � 1998 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/tc/story.html?s=v/nm/19981016/tc/fcc_2. html **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Sat Oct 17 17:51:38 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 08:51:38 +0800 Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.50: National ID postponed until 1999 Message-ID: <199810180033.RAA27258@netcom13.netcom.com> From: "ama-gi ISPI" Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.50: National ID postponed until 1999 Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 00:03:08 -0700 To: ISPI Clips 5.50: National ID postponed until 1999 News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) Saturday October 17, 1998 ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This From: WorldNetDaily, October 16, 1998 http://www.worldnetdaily.com National ID postponed until 1999 Moratorium in appropriations bill approved by Congress this week http://www.worldnetdaily.com/exclusiv/981016_bres_national_id_po.html By David M. Bresnahan Copyright 1998, WorldNetDaily.com Implementation of a National ID card will be automatically imposed on all states unless Congress takes action in 1999. More immediate efforts to impose the system, first exposed in WorldNetDaily, were derailed by a one-year moratorium on the National ID regulations included in the omnibus appropriations bill passed by Congress Thursday. It was a provision that was not without controversy. The moratorium was first included in the transportation appropriations bill, but Rep. Lamar Smith, R-TX, convinced Speaker Newt Gingrich, R-GA, to remove it before passage, according to House Transportation Committee sources. Rep. Frank Wolf, R-VA, chairman of the House Appropriations Transportation Subcommittee included the ban in the omnibus bill, according to a committee staff member. However, Smith continued to make efforts to kill the provision, according to Patrick Poole of the watchdog group Free Congress Foundation. "It was reported that Lamar Smith had obtained an agreement from Speaker Gingrich to eliminate this provision from the bill," reported Poole. The ban was back in the bill "after many House members openly complained to the speaker about Lamar Smith's seemingly religious devotion to the National ID idea and the American people's vehement opposition to being branded and tagged by the U.S. government." Numerous organizations opposed to the concept of a National ID rallied their members to send thousands of letters, faxes, and make phone calls to Congress for the past two weeks. Smith failed to return calls to WorldNetDaily.com, but he did publish a letter in the "Washington Times" on Tuesday because of the many calls his office received. "I do not support a National ID card and don't know anyone in Congress who does," said Smith in his letter. He tried to label those voicing opposition as radicals when he added, "There are fringe groups that believe the United Nations is taking over Yellowstone National Park, that Congress is creating a National ID card or that they have been abducted by UFOs." Congress put the wheels in motion to create a National ID card in 1996 with the passage of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act. One section of the act, which was largely unnoticed at the time, requires all states to make their driver's licenses comply with certain guidelines found in Section 656 (b) of the act. The law prohibits states from issuing driver's licenses unless they comply with the new requirements beginning Oct. 1, 2000. The new licenses must use the Social Security number as the driver's license number, for example. The act also calls for digitized biometric information to be a part of each license, or "smart card." The biometric information will include fingerprints, retina scans, DNA prints and other similar information. Responsibility for the design and implementation of the cards has been given to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration of the Department of Transportation. That agency has recently published the proposed "Driver's License/SSN/National Identification Document," which contains the guidelines which must be in force by Oct. 1, 2000. The "Notice of Proposed Rule Making" sets out the standards for each state to follow in the design of "identification documents." "These new National ID regulations violate every notion of federalism, because they force states to comply with regulations issued by the federal government without any constitutional authority to do so," said Poole recently. "Nor are federal agencies empowered to force states to gather detailed information on every person in order to comply with federal mandates. The net result of the DOT's regulations is to establish a National ID system, which has been opposed by almost every non-governmental sector for the past five decades." The moratorium is needed while efforts are made to repeal Section 656 (b) of the act. The moratorium will relieve states from spending money on unnecessary development costs. House Majority Leader Dick Armey, R-TX, Rep. Ron Paul, R-TX, and Rep. Bob Barr, R-GA, have been working on repeal legislation, but there was insufficient time to bring it to a vote during this session of Congress. "Speaker Gingrich did come dangerously close to selling us out on National IDs," said a congressional staffer. Numerous grass-roots organizations opposed to the National ID system were celebrating the inclusion of the moratorium in the omnibus bill just passed by Congress. The DOT solicited public comments on their plans for implementation of Section 656 (b) of the act earlier this year. The public comment period has just closed and many thousands of letters in opposition were received, according to a spokesman. Five states also expressed opposition to the plan, and only a "small number" of letters supporting the plan were known to the spokesman, who spoke on condition that his name would not be published. The American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators also wrote to the DOT and recommended repeal of the law, even though they had once been in favor of such legislation. "Over the past 10 years, the AAMVA has vigorously pushed Congress and the various state motor vehicle directors to implement policies to require the submission of social security numbers as a condition for issuance of driver's licenses. This resounding defeat may spell the end of their ill-fated quest," said Scott McDonald, a grass-roots activist who operates the "Fight the Fingerprint" website. He is able to mobilize thousands of activists on a national basis using his e-mail notification system. "There is no satisfactory condition under which Social Security Numbers may be required as a condition for travel," said McDonald. "The victory's definitely not yet won. During these lull periods there's an opportunity for proponents of these issues to let opposition die down and all of a sudden, pop, it goes through without anyone even aware of it. "I don't see how the Department of Transportation could go forth with implementing the regulation with all that strong opposition to it. Even five states wrote letters of strong opposition to requiring Social Security numbers," said McDonald. "This National ID is not just isolated to America. This is going on all over the world. Every country has some form of it going on," explained Jackie Juntti, leader of the Washington Grassroots E-mail Network. Her group takes credit for defeating an earlier effort in 1997 to put fingerprints on driver's licenses in Washington state. "We're just people out here trying to remain free," she said. Juntti's "NoID Orange Ribbon Campaign," found on many Internet Web sites, began after she refused to produce a driver's license to board an airplane. She was searched thoroughly and then granted a seat on the plane. "For a year we're safe," said Lisa Dean of the Coalition for Constitutional Liberties, another organization that has been actively campaigning against the provisions of Section 656 (b). She agreed that the toughest part of her organization's challenge is in front of her. Rep. Smith, and other proponents of the measure have framed their issue around illegal immigration. Dean's organization has received many responses for and against a National ID. Many have voiced support for her efforts, but some have told her "what difference does it make? The government already has our information," according to Dean. Others also mention the need to control illegal immigration. Now that a moratorium is in place for a year, Dean expects repeal efforts will also include finding alternative ways to resolve the concerns about illegal immigrants, although no recommendations are in place as yet. David Bresnahan, a WorldNetDaily contributing editor, hosts "Talk USA Investigative Reports" and is the author of "Cover Up: The Art and Science of Political Deception." His email address is David at talkusa.com. � 1998 Western Journalism Center --------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------ ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research and educational purposes only. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases (up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message "Please enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to: ISPIClips at ama-gi.com . The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia (Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no government funding and takes a global perspective. ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research into electronic, personal and financial privacy with a view toward helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy. But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and generous financial support. If you are concerned about the erosion of your privacy in general, won't you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI Supporter" or by taking out an institute Membership? We gratefully accept all contributions: Less than $60 ISPI Supporter $60 - $99 Primary ISPI Membership (1 year) $100 - $300 Senior ISPI Membership (2 years) More than $300 Executive Council Membership (life) Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership. For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com . We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to any third party. **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Sat Oct 17 17:51:48 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 08:51:48 +0800 Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.51: Your Online Profile--Where You Go, What You Buy--Is Vulnerable Message-ID: <199810180033.RAA27269@netcom13.netcom.com> From: "ama-gi ISPI" Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.51: Your Online Profile--Where You Go, What You Buy--Is Vulnerable Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 00:04:28 -0700 To: ISPI Clips 5.51: Your Online Profile--Where You Go, What You Buy--Is Vulnerable News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) Saturday October 17, 1998 ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This From: TIME.com Magazine, OCTOBER 12, 1998 VOL. 152 NO. 15 http://cgi.pathfinder.com/time/ Watch Your Tracks Your online profile--where you go, what you buy--is vulnerable. Here's how to protect it http://cgi.pathfinder.com/time/magazine/1998/dom/981012/personal_time.your_ tech2a.html By MICHAEL KRANTZ TIME technology writer Run a search on your PC's hard drive for the phrase "User Profile," and you'll find a long list of items like this: "yahoo.comTRUE/FALSE 3262463 493 Y v=1&n=82iosk148jr9n." This gibberish is just one in a series of digital snapshots of my recent online travels: what websites I visited; what pages I viewed and for how long; what I bought, downloaded or printed. What's more, every site I visit can send programs called "cookies" down the phone line into my machine to snag this data and either use it to try to sell me something ("He spends time at E! Online? Let's spam him with that Titanic-for-$5 offer!") or sell my "profile" to some other marketer. Yikes. For years, of course, everyone from insurance adjusters to credit-card companies has made money swapping consumer profiles like baseball cards. But the Web is bringing this great American pastime to new levels of invasive splendor. Ironically, one of the most attractive features of the Net--its ability to customize content instantly--morphs smoothly into one of its most sinister: the ability to monitor who you are and what you're doing online, even as you do it. It's not just the embarrassment factor we're talking about here: the guy whose wife checks out his log and finds the porn sites he hit last night. Consider how much other personal data could become available as we conduct more and more of our lives in this (thus far) happily unregulated world--investing and paying our bills online, filling our prescriptions, etc. How forthright have websites been about telling users what data they're unwittingly providing? Not very. Last spring the Federal Trade Commission studied 1,400 sites and found that only 14% had posted privacy statements of any kind (though 71 of the 100 busiest sites did so). While a Senate committee last week approved legislation that would authorize the FTC to regulate the profiling of children, the agency seems willing to let the industry clean up its own act with regard to adults. Enter TRUSTe, a nonprofit group that has persuaded 270 of the Web's most popular sites to post and abide by statements telling what data they collect from visitors, how they use that data and how visitors can restrict that use. Web leaders such as America Online, Microsoft and Netscape plan an announcement this Wednesday to address privacy concerns. Some, though, are skeptical that a voluntary system will work. "If anybody's going to make money off your identity," says Fred Davis, chief executive officer of the software start-up Lumeria, based in Berkeley, Calif., "it should be you." And, of course, Fred Davis. Due in early 1999, Lumeria's software will, among other things, help you control your data, keeping nosy marketers from grabbing your profile unless you let them. In fact, Davis thinks companies will eventually pay for the privilege ("Hey, visitor No. 85834: we see you bought Titanic last week. We'll give you 500 frequent-flyer miles to tell us your name, age and income!"). For now, here's how you can keep those pesky cookies away. If you use Microsoft's Internet Explorer, choose Internet Options under your View menu, click the Advanced tab, scroll down to the Cookies subsection and choose "Disable all cookie use." If you use Netscape Navigator, go to Edit Preferences under the Edit menu and choose Advanced, then "Turn all cookies off." But be warned: many sites won't let you in if your browser rejects cookies, and others will harass you with dialogue boxes urging you to accept one. --------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------ ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research and educational purposes only. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases (up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message "Please enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to: ISPIClips at ama-gi.com . The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia (Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no government funding and takes a global perspective. ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research into electronic, personal and financial privacy with a view toward helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy. But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and generous financial support. If you are concerned about the erosion of your privacy in general, won't you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI Supporter" or by taking out an institute Membership? We gratefully accept all contributions: Less than $60 ISPI Supporter $60 - $99 Primary ISPI Membership (1 year) $100 - $300 Senior ISPI Membership (2 years) More than $300 Executive Council Membership (life) Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership. For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com . We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to any third party. **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Sat Oct 17 17:52:28 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 08:52:28 +0800 Subject: IP: FBI Says Some U.S. Cities Vulnerable To Attack Message-ID: <199810180033.RAA27236@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: FBI Says Some U.S. Cities Vulnerable To Attack Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 17:56:32 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com Source: Fox News - Reuters FBI Says Some U.S. Cities Vulnerable To Attack 2.13 p.m. ET (1814 GMT) October 16, 1998 WASHINGTON � Some U.S. cities are unprepared for an attack by weapons of mass destruction with biological agents a greater danger than nuclear or chemical weapons, an FBI official said Friday. "Some American communities are very unprepared. They certainly don't have the equipment and resources necessary to handle a major attack,'' Robert Blitzer, chief of the FBI's domestic terrorism section, said. "The real weakness that we have right now is the ability to detect and counter a (biological weapons attack) because it's much more insidious and much more difficult to detect,'' he said. The FBI official, who was unable to give numbers on how many cities were unprepared, said communities were better able to deal with chemical and nuclear weapons attacks. Many fire departments have units that deal with hazardous materials and are ready to handle chemical weapons, he said. "On the nuclear side, there's a pretty robust capability to handle those kinds of issues and has been for many years,'' Blitzer said. He appeared at the weekly Justice Department news conference with U.S. Attorney General Janet Reno, who announced a new office at the FBI to help state and local governments better respond to terrorist attacks with weapons of mass destruction. Reno said the office would help create training standards for local police, firefighters and rescue squads and would try to make sure they have the necessary equipment. "I want this new office to be a center for assistance and solutions, not a new bureaucracy,'' she said. "We are not interested in a top-down, one-size-fits-all solution.'' � Reuters Ltd. All rights reserved ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Sat Oct 17 17:53:07 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 08:53:07 +0800 Subject: IP: Tracking: Bar Codes/Elec.Tags for License Plates Message-ID: <199810180033.RAA27291@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Tracking: Bar Codes/Elec.Tags for License Plates Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 11:28:20 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com Source: London Telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/et?ac=000150689433551&rtmo=Vu5wFmwx&atmo=99999 999&P4_FOLLOW_ON=/98/10/17/ntag17.html&pg=/et/98/10/17/ntag17.html Car tagging may help cut theft, says minister By Andrew Sparrow, Political Correspondent CAR number plates could be fitted with bar codes or electronic tags in a move to cut crime. Alun Michael, a Home Office minister, said it was "odd" that while consumer goods such as whisky bottles could be tagged, valuable items like cars were not dealt with in the same way. Tagging is being considered as one option that could help the Government hit its target of reducing car crime by 30 per cent over the next five years. Mr Michael said the Government's Vehicle Crime Reduction Action Team, which includes ministers, police officers and car manufacturers, was examining the practicalities of improving security features on cars. The Government would also improve security at car parks, where more than 30 per cent of all auto crime occurred. Cars left in car parks were 200 times more likely to be stolen or broken into than those garaged at home, Mr Michael told an Association of Chief Police Officers car crime conference. Yet car parks that had improved their security had seen break-ins fall by an average of 70 per cent. Mr Michael said the action team would also encourage owners of older cars to make them harder to steal. A car registered in 1985 was 14 times more likely to be taken than a new car. Manufacturers will be urged to make their products more theft-proof. Mr Michael said innovations that the Government would like to see introduced as standard included toughened glass windows to ward off opportunist thieves stealing stereos and handbags from vehicles. Delegates heard that commonly quoted statistics placing Britain at the head of the European vehicle theft league might be misleading. Elaine Hardy, of the International Car Distribution Programme, said that while figures showed vehicle theft in England and Wales to be roughly double the European average as a percentage of the number of vehicles on the roads, definitions of car theft varied enormously. For example, she said, in the Netherlands a vehicle was listed merely as "missing" until it had been gone for more than a month. In other countries, cars recovered within 90 days were wiped from the figures. The true story could be that domestic statistics were roughly comparable to others in Europe. � Copyright of Telegraph Group Limited 1998. ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Sat Oct 17 17:53:18 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 08:53:18 +0800 Subject: IP: ATTN: Does Any Listee Have Eye-Witness Report??? Message-ID: <199810180033.RAA27214@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: ATTN: Does Any Listee Have Eye-Witness Report??? Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 17:04:45 -0500 To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com --------------------- NOTE: This is an anecdotal report, UNCONFIRMED at the present time. If anyone on the list is an eyewitness to this event, please report in ASAP with additional details. Thank you! -- Michele --------------------- Forwarded: --------------------- >Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 09:57:00 -0500 >From: "Shonda P. Wigington" >Subject: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: Helicopter Harassment > > >>Freedom-Lovers International >>Shonda P. Wigington, President >>5308 Robinsdale Lane >>Austin, Texas 78723 >>512-933-1950 >> >> OCTOBER 13, 1998--AUSTIN, TEXAS--On October 10, 1998, around noon, a >>yellow and black helicopter flew around a South Austin neighborhood where >>Alex Jones' mother lives. Carol Jones reported that she did not pay >>attention initially, but that it stayed in the area for about an hour. She >>observed the helicopter hovering over her property. She said that the >>words "Travis County" were printed on the side of the helicopter and that >>the helicopter looked new. Someone was leaning out of the door of the >>helicopter which she said was low enough for her to see that there was a >>big lense camera pointed at her. >> When she returned into her home, she called her husband, Dr. David >>Jones, who then called the Austin Aviation Department where he left a >>message. Simeon Tolgol returned the elder Mr. Jones' call the next >>morning, explaining that the Travis County Sheriff's Department had logged >>a four hour surveillance mission. >> Around 2:00 AM that night, Alex Jones' girlfriend called Steve Lane of >>"The Freedom Report" because of a helicopter shining spotlights into her >>windows. He stated to the Commissioners during Citizens Communication on >>October 13, that the helicopter was so low that he could hear the noise >>through the phone as he spoke to her. She was frightened and crying. >> Jones' producer, Mike Hanson got film footage of the helicopter as it >>moved over his home, shined the spotlight, turned it off, passed over, came >>back, shined the light again several times. >> "I was spotlighted by the helicopter very early saturday morning," Lane >>said, "I believe it was about 1:30 to 2:00 am saturday morning. (The) >>helicopter flew over, again, well under 800 feet above ground level, in >>direct violation of the Federal Aviation Regulations, did not have a >>spotlight on until it came to the house that I was at. The spotlight was >>turned on, I have a video of it, and I'll be glad to give ya'll copies >>because I would like for ya'll to look into this..." Lane described the >>incident as "unnerving". >> Mike Hanson called all of the County Commissioners for information >>regarding the incident. All of the Commissioners returned his call, that >>is all accept Judge Bill Aleshire. >> Karen Sunleitner (Precinct 2 Commissioner) stated, "It was not the >>Travis County Sheriff's office, it was the Austin Police Department. The >>Austin Police Department was piggy-backing on an existing flight that was >>going on that particular day during the hours that Mr. Jones talked >>about...were undergoing pilot training for the brand new helicopter. They >>piggy-backed on that. They are doing ariel video footage of several >>locations pertinent to ongoing homicide investigations." >> Several months ago Travis County Commissioners voted to buy the >>helicopters at taxpayer expense, supposedly for Starflight assistance >>during emergency situations. But these particular helicopters were also >>equipped with infrared "FLARE" technology that could easily be used for >>surveillance. >> The Texas Media Alliance was concerned that this technology could be >>abused. The different organizations that make up the Alliance voiced their >>concerns to the commissioners, who adamently denied any such agenda for the >>new helicopters. >> "They spoke to me like a child," Rusty Fields of Common Sense said, "and >>they assured me that they would not use the helicopters for surveillance." >>He looked around and gestured at the number of people in the room and said, >>"This is what happens when they get caught lying." >> Alex Jones informed the commissioners that day that he was "conducting >>an investigation." >>He claims the county conducted a surveillance mission last week, denying >>the county commissioners' claim that it was done by the city. >> "You are all a pack of liars!" Jones stated, "Pure harassment. It's >>SABER 1. You see, they passed it (the bill) under Starflight so everybody >>can laugh and call it Starflight." Starflight being the term to use for >>emergency pick-up missions by the local EMS. >>Jones said he obtained the I-D of the people doing it through the Aviation >>logues. >> "Flying over Alex's mothers house, I'm not buying that it was a homicide >>investigation," said Mike Runyan, who had been there when the county >>commissioners assured him by likening the use of the new helicopters to >>"searching for lost children in the greenbelts." Runyan commented that he >>was not real happy about the video footage of the incident over Hanson's >>house. >> "Ya'll keep doing it," he warned, "and you're libel to provoke somebody. >> It's just the natural progression of things." >> Mike Hanson played a tape-recorded interview of Mrs. Jones by Alex Jones >>on his radio show, "The Real Spin," heard on KJFK 98.9FM (Austin). >> "I really still didn't know, or become paranoid or anything," she said, >>"but these people made about eight passes over my place, maybe more, but >>let's just say conservatively eight." >>She stated that they were passing and "taking pictures." >> "I don't know what is more disturbing, that they would do this because, >>like, I'm your mother," she told her son during the interview, "or that >>they would just do it to somebody who's just sitting there, because this >>person either has film of me or got really good pictures of just someone >>looking straight up at him." >> "Are there any federal funds involved in these helicopters?" asked John >>P. Roberts, when it came his turn to speak. >> "No, sir," Sunleitner stated. >> "There are no federal funds?" Roberts asked again, "So technically you >>are not tied to them in any way if they want to come and 'borrow' them for >>any reason?" >> "That is purchased by the taxpayers of Travis County," Sunleitner >>assured him. >> Roberts closed his remarks with, "Common sense tells you you don't >>harass the people that pay you." >> "The people will be informed," stated Shonda P. Wigington of >>Freedom-Lovers International, "and if it (the harassment) doesn't stop, we >>WILL strive for a class-action lawsuit against Travis County." >> During Citizens Communication that day, Darwin Mckees (Commissioner of >>Precint 1) called in the Sheriff's Department as a result of a sit-in >>attempt made by Free Press International's Greg Ericson in protest to the >>three minute limit forced upon the people who came to speak that day. >>Ericson left before the deputies arrived, and other than the Commissioners >>trying to quieten Alex Jones's exclamations of what "liars" they are, there >>were no other incidents. >> **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Sat Oct 17 17:53:22 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 08:53:22 +0800 Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.49: More on The FBI's New Wiretap Authority Message-ID: <199810180033.RAA27246@netcom13.netcom.com> From: "ama-gi ISPI" Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.49: More on The FBI's New Wiretap Authority Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 00:01:14 -0700 To: ISPI Clips 5.49: More on The FBI's New Wiretap Authority News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) Saturday October 17, 1998 ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This From: ABC News.com, October 13, 1998 http://www.abcnews.com Taps For Privacy? Investigators Can Follow Suspects From Phone To Phone http://www.abcnews.com/sections/tech/DailyNews/wirelaw981013.html By Chris Stamper ABCNEWS.com Buried deep inside the Intelligence Authorization Act of 1999 is a provision that will change the way the FBI and other law enforcement agencies can listen to suspects� phone calls. The new rule opens the doors for more �roving� wiretaps, which listen to all the phones a suspect uses rather than just a single line. Supporters say this will help the cops keep up with cell-phone wielding crooks. Critics contend that it opens the door for ever more invasions of privacy. The bill passed the House and Senate last week; President Clinton is expected to sign it soon. A similar change was voted down in 1996 as part of an anti-terrorism measure. An Invitation to Abuse? To bug a suspect, investigators must first obtain a court order. Current federal wiretapping law allows multiple taps only if law enforcement can convince a judge that a suspect is trying to avoid being overheard. The new bill, introduced by Rep. Porter Goss (R-Fla.), requires only that investigators show probable cause that �the person�s actions could have the effect of thwarting interception.� Supporters maintain that such a change is necessary to keep up with exploding technology. Suspects whose lines are tapped can easily switch to a pay phone or cell phone and avoid detection. But Leslie Hagin, legislative director of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers, echoes the sentiments of many criminal defense attorneys and civil libertarians who feel that the expansion of powers is an invitation to abuse: �It�s not a power the government needs.� Defense attorneys such as Gregory Nicolaysen, founder of the Association of Federal Defense Attorneys, complain that too many judges rubber-stamp wiretapping requests and that the new law will only make that situation worse: �The assumption is that those who are being wiretapped are criminals anyway.� �It�s not being confined to drug dealers and organized crime,� Nicolaysen argues. �It tends to be a knee-jerk reaction instead of an investigative tool of last resort.� The Phones Have Ears According to the Administrative Office of the United States Courts, federal and state judges approved 1,186 wiretap applications in 1997 and 1,094 bugs were planted. No requests were denied last year. Judges have rejected only 28 of over 20,000 applications since wiretapping was legalized in 1968. Authorities arrested 3,086 people in 1997 with the help of phone taps, which are typically placed in homes. The American Civil Liberties Union says that for every wiretap placed, nearly a thousand innocent conversations are intercepted by law enforcement. According to ACLU legislative counsel Greg Nojeim, the new bill will mean that the phones of a suspect�s friends, family and business colleagues can all be tapped by law enforcement: �It means more wiretaps, more lines tapped and additional thousands of intercepted innocent conversations.� The FBI says snoops have to ignore conversations that aren�t relevant to their investigations. �Under existing wiretap statutes,� says special agent Barry Smith, �law enforcement is only authorized to listen to those conversations that are related to criminal activity.� Nojeim argues that since roving wiretaps will be easier to obtain, citizens� Fourth Amendment rights protecting against illegal searches will erode. �When the government wants to search a place, it has to specify the place it wants to search,� he says. �Now for electronic surveillance the specificity requirement is done away with.� Smith says a hefty increase in roving wiretaps is unlikely, since such an operation requires a team of surveillance experts who must coordinate their efforts with several different phone companies: �It�s still a technological and logistical nightmare.� Whether one believes that the new bill represents an invasion of privacy, it seems clear that crooks won�t be able to escape to their cell phones much longer without fear of being overheard. Copyright (c)1998 ABCNEWS --------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------ ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research and educational purposes only. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases (up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message "Please enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to: ISPIClips at ama-gi.com . The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia (Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no government funding and takes a global perspective. ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research into electronic, personal and financial privacy with a view toward helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy. But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and generous financial support. If you value in the ISPI Clips service or if you are concerned about the erosion of your privacy in general, won't you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI Clips Supporter" or by taking out an institute Membership? We gratefully accept all contributions: Less than $60 ISPI Clips Supporter $60 - $99 Primary ISPI Membership (1 year) $100 - $300 Senior ISPI Membership (2 years) More than $300 Executive Council Membership (life) Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership. For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com . We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to any third party. **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Sat Oct 17 17:53:30 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 08:53:30 +0800 Subject: IP: One-Stop Shopping for Anti-Terrorism Aid Message-ID: <199810180033.RAA27225@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: One-Stop Shopping for Anti-Terrorism Aid Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 17:55:09 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com Source: Fox News - AP Reno offers one-stop federal anti-terrorist aid 3.37 p.m. ET (1938 GMT) October 16, 1998 By Michael J. Sniffen, Associated Press WASHINGTON (AP) � Attorney General Janet Reno trumpeted a new FBI office Friday that will offer local police, fire and rescue workers one-stop shopping for federal training and equipment to respond to chemical, biological or nuclear attacks by terrorists. The FBI's new National Domestic Preparedness Office, staffed by officials from a variety of federal agencies, "will assume overall responsibility for coordinating the government's efforts to prepare America's communities for terrorist incidents involving weapons of mass destruction,'' Reno told her weekly news conference. After an attack, "the first few minutes are very critical,'' Reno said. Usually, the first to arrive at the chaotic and dangerous scene are local rescue squads, firefighters and police. "For many victims, what these first responders do in those first few minutes can mean the difference between life and death.'' State and local officials responsible for these efforts have complained in recent years that federal aid � either training or equipment � is hard to find and inadequate and that some federal agencies duplicate the work of others while gaps remain. The new program "is trying to address the issues that first responders have raised and create a two-way street so that we hear from them, that we provide one central place where they can go, knowing that they will get the best information, both from the FBI, Department of Defense, the Department of Energy, the Public Health Service, and that they will get the latest information with respect to equipment,'' Reno said. Under a new interagency agreement, Justice and the FBI will take over from the Defense Department as the coordinator, funded by $49 million from the Pentagon in the coming fiscal year. The program will train state and local workers, distribute money to buy equipment, set up joint federal-state-local practice exercises and work with state and local officials to draft contingency plans unique to each local situation, Reno said. "State and local governments (will be) a full partner in the planning effort, since they know what they need there at the front line.'' The FBI has been investigating a rising number of suspected biological, chemical or nuclear-radiological incidents � 68 in 1997 and 86 in 1998. But Bob Blitzer, chief of the FBI's domestic terrorism unit, said, "the vast majority of these are hoaxes.'' He said the bureau believed it had averted four or five potential attacks in the last couple years. Many fire department have good hazardous materials units to deal with chemical attacks, and for many years there has been "a pretty robust capability to handle'' nuclear-radiological attacks, Blitzer said. "The real weakness that we have right now is the ability to detect and counter a (biological attack), because it's much more insidious and much more difficult to detect,'' Blitzer added. "There's certainly less protection, particularly on the medical side.'' � 1998 Associated Press. All rights reserved. ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From jf_avon at citenet.net Sun Oct 18 10:19:36 1998 From: jf_avon at citenet.net (Jean-Francois Avon) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 10:19:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: IMPORTANT! Fwd: Social Engineering & C68 Message-ID: <199810181718.NAA22024@cti06.citenet.net> Hi! My name is Jean-Francois Avon. Almost all of you who will read this message know me personnally. I forward this message to you for I believe that it is of *great* importance. The message discuss things that *will* affect your life in one way or another. PLEASE take the time to read it. The implications of what is discussed in this document will affect *everybody*. PLEASE! DO READ IT COMPLETELY! Jean-Francois Avon ==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE================== >Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 10:37:30 -0700 >From: Dan MacInnis >Reply-To: dan.louise at sympatico.ca >To: cdn-firearms-digest at broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca >CC: mkhughe at north.nsis.com, jf_avon at citenet.net >Subject: Social Engineering & C68 Let me begin by commenting I know this is not a 'chat' digest, but the question was raised here about Quebec/Maritime involvement if fighting C68 [the new firearms registration bill]. To be fair, there is quite a bit of work being done by individuals, but government is mute down there, and for ecomonic reasons, must be. The reluctance or simply because the populance had no personal arms of men and women to fight back when their wives, children, possessions etc. were being taken away is however, as in Nazi Germany and Kosovo today, is, I suggest, a major plank in Social Engineering of a Society. >From this point I will probably be branded as a "radical'. So be it. I am educated in Engineering and Philosophy, the former teaches system and the latter teaches thinking on, I would argue, another scale. The new so called 'Global' economy will, and already has, caused major social upheaval. People who were middle class a few short years ago are now on the streets or almost there due to the relocaction of work to countries with a lower wage scale. Mexico, India, two of which I have first hand knowledge, the wages are less than %10 of North American rates. Workers and management both were'are being 'let go', out of a source of income. The stock market was inundated with large sums of cash, the source was the money paid to let go people, their severance package. Hence, the inflated price of shares, which the market is just now correcting, to the detriment of retirement payouts from Mutual Fund to these laid off workers. Their future is bleak, to put it mildly. Farmers must be, by international trade laws, cut off from government support and assistannce, to give an example, hog and milk subsidies. So they face a bleak future in Canada. Quebec fought hard for Free Trade, until the dairy and hog farmers read the fine print. Now we had a milk strike, annd as I write, the hog farmers in Quebec are raising Hale. Jean Francois Avon wrote in response to my earlier diatribe on Jews/Kosovians(I hope he copied this Digest) that Quebec Separatists would be afraid of an armed populace. I suggest he is correct. So too are the federal and eastern Canadian provincial governments afraid of guns in the hands of civilians. They see them as weapons which could be used against them and the establishment as the economy changes and more and more middle class people, farmers, fishermen and former managers reach the lower ranks of income and living conditions. In Canada, we rank social standing by job/income/education to do a job. We rated fur trappers at the bottom, because it payed poorly and required little formal education to perform. Tie in to Bill C68? Well, Allan Rock let the cat out of the bag. When he was briefed after becoming Minister of Justice, it was explained to him that the program to disarm civilians began when Free Trade/Global Economy talks were in their early stages, was running behind shedule. In his jubulance, determined to 'get the job done', where Mulroney had slowed down after an aggressive start, he blurted out the program on live TV. 'Only police and the military should have guns'. In the opinion of the various goverments, including Quebec, Ottawa and some provinces, the program must be complete, and must be completed soon. Farmers, as they lose their farms to financial institutions, fishermen, as they lose thier boats, certain interests in Quebec as they lose everything due to separation, may fight back. It is therefore critical that they do not have access to arms, as a means of defence or aggression. The War Measures act is gone, replaced. A legal means had to be manufactured to remove guns from the people. Hence, C68 is a good beginning. It allows confiscation of any firearms so deemed by the incumbent government later on. No, my friends, Ottawa is not stupid, this is a well thought out plan, and appears to be working, as they use mass media on the population, to change public opinion to their side, i.e., guns are dangerous especially to women and children. In fact, firearms in the hands of civilians are dangerous, but to repressive governments from a displaced populace. As more and more Canadians find everything they worked for threatened, some MIGHT fight back, and shoot the Bailiff's from the Banks and the police sent to protect them when they re-possess their property and throw them, literally, on the streets, on into their relatives homes. Registration? Use of the harsh Criminal Code, jail, for non-compliance?? Necessary, in Ottawa's view. Get the job begun earlier finished, then they can go on the the greater plan, more relaxed when people have no means of defence or rebellion. When you live on the streets, there is no place to hide a gun. Not to sound trite, but this will test 'unsafe storage' laws to the limit. If the Supreme Court judges have been properly briefed on the Social Engineering aspects of C68, we do not have a chance in Hell in the courts. Then, we will have a search and seizure, after 2003, to actively find and confiscate unregistered and illegal (by now) guns on farms, in houses, examples made in the Press of a few, and the game is over. Is this gloom and doom from me, or a realistic analysis of the situation? You decide, but at least think about it from a broader angle than simply telling Ottawa how many, the serial number and storage place of your firearms today. We need only to look at the history of Scotland to see Quebec today and the ROC tomorrow. And C68 plays a huge role in this. ===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE=================== Jean-Francois Avon, B.Sc. Physics, Montreal, Canada DePompadour, Soci�t� d'Importation Lt�e Limoges fine porcelain and french crystal JFA Technologies, R&D physicists & engineers Instrumentation & control, LabView programming PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C From ichudov at www.video-collage.com Sun Oct 18 12:33:35 1998 From: ichudov at www.video-collage.com (Igor Chudov) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 03:33:35 +0800 Subject: test1 Message-ID: <199810181912.PAA26798@www.video-collage.com> test1 From steve.benjamin at juno.com Sun Oct 18 12:49:05 1998 From: steve.benjamin at juno.com (Stephen Benjamin) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 03:49:05 +0800 Subject: 2 questions: Prime Numbers and DES Message-ID: <19981018.151326.-968627.0.Steve.Benjamin@juno.com> 1. How can I generate 2 large prime numbers? I doubt I could create 2, 100-digit prime numbers in my head :-) 2. Is there an implentation of DES in perl? I didn't see a link to one on the export-a-sig page. If not perl, is there one for DOS? I'm looking for a bare bones one, not something with tons of features and a GUI. A perl or dos version of the unix "des" program would be preferable. Thanks! Stephen Benjamin Steve.Benjamin at juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sun Oct 18 12:53:48 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 03:53:48 +0800 Subject: CDR Node Test (no reply) Message-ID: <199810181944.OAA03432@einstein.ssz.com> Test (no reply) ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From webmaster at max-web.com Sun Oct 18 12:57:32 1998 From: webmaster at max-web.com (Kevlar) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 03:57:32 +0800 Subject: More on Postel In-Reply-To: <36298670.B1A@att.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981018121429.008e7100@max-web.com> Damn. Talk about a blow to the heart. Where can I find more information about this great man and his achievements? Has there been any memorial web sites put up? I'de be happy to donate space on my server. Just e-mail me at god at max-web.com. Are there any news stories worth reading on this subject? At 11:10 PM 10/17/98 -0700, you wrote: >Subject: IP: Remembrance/postel >From: Dave Farber [farber at cis.upenn.edu] > >I, and others I fear, have spent a sleepless night after hearing of the >death of Jon Postel last night. This morning there was a note in my >mail box from Vint Cerf that said many of the things I feel at this >time. I asked him for permission to send on which he granted. > >I also remember Jon. I was his primary thesis advisor along with Jerry >Estrin and I remember with fond memories the months spent closely >working with Jon while his eager mind developed the ideas in back of >what was a pioneering thesis that founded the area of protocol >verification. Since I was at UC Irvine and Jon at UCLA we used to meet >in the morning prior to my ride to UCI at a Pancake House in Santa >Monica for breakfast and the hard work of developing a thesis. I gained >a great respect for Jon then and 10 pounds of weight. > >I will miss him greatly. Jon was my second Ph.D. student. The first, >Philip Merlin, also died way before his time. > >Dave > >________________________________________________________________________ > > October 17, 1998 > >I REMEMBER IANA > >Vint Cerf > >A long time ago, in a network, far far away, a great adventure took >place� > >Out of the chaos of new ideas for communication, the experiments, the >tentative designs, and crucible of testing, there emerged a cornucopia >of networks. Beginning with the ARPANET, an endless stream of networks >evolved, and ultimately were interlinked to become the Internet. Someone >had to keep track of all the protocols, the identifiers, networks and >addresses and ultimately the names of all the things in the networked >universe. And someone had to keep track of all the information that >erupted with volcanic force from the intensity of the debates and >discussions and endless invention that has continued unabated for 30 >years. That someone was Jonathan B. Postel, our Internet Assigned >Numbers Authority, friend, engineer, confidant, leader, icon, and now, >first of the giants to depart from our midst. > >Jon, our beloved IANA, is gone. Even as I write these words I cannot >quite grasp this stark fact. We had almost lost him once before in 1991. >Surely we knew he was at risk as are we all. But he had been our rock, >the foundation on which our every web search and email was built, always >there to mediate the random dispute, to remind us when our documentation >did not do justice to its subject, to make difficult decisions with >apparent ease, and to consult when careful consideration was needed. We >will survive our loss and we will remember. He has left a monumental >legacy for all Internauts to contemplate. Steadfast service for decades, >moving when others seemed paralyzed, always finding the right course in >a complex minefield of technical and sometimes political obstacles. > >Jon and I went to the same high school, Van Nuys High, in the San >Fernando Valley north of Los Angeles. But we were in different classes >and I really didn�t know him then. Our real meeting came at UCLA when we >became a part of a group of graduate students working for Prof. Leonard >Kleinrock on the ARPANET project. Steve Crocker was another of the Van >Nuys crowd who was part of the team and led the development of the first >host-host protocols for the ARPANET. When Steve invented the idea of the >Request for Comments series, Jon became the instant editor. When we >needed to keep track of all the hosts and protocol identifiers, Jon >volunteered to be the Numbers Czar and later the IANA once the Internet >was in place. > >Jon was a founding member of the Internet Architecture Board and served >continuously from its founding to the present. He was the FIRST >individual member of the Internet Society I know, because he and Steve >Wolff raced to see who could fill out the application forms and make >payment first and Jon won. He served as a trustee of the Internet >Society. He was the custodian of the .US domain, a founder of the Los >Nettos Internet service, and, by the way, managed the networking >research division of USC Information Sciences Institute. > >Jon loved the outdoors. I know he used to enjoy backpacking in the high >Sierras around Yosemite. Bearded and sandaled, Jon was our resident >hippie-patriarch at UCLA. He was a private person but fully capable of >engaging photon torpedoes and going to battle stations in a good >engineering argument. And he could be stubborn beyond all expectation. >He could have outwaited the Sphinx in a staring contest, I think. > >Jon inspired loyalty and steadfast devotion among his friends and his >colleagues. For me, he personified the words �selfless service.� For >nearly 30 years, Jon has served us all, taken little in return, indeed >sometimes receiving abuse when he should have received our deepest >appreciation. It was particularly gratifying at the last Internet >Society meeting in Geneva to see Jon receive the Silver Medal of the >International Telecommunications Union. It is an award generally >reserved for Heads of State but I can think of no one more deserving of >global recognition for his contributions. > >While it seems almost impossible to avoid feeling an enormous sense of >loss, as if a yawning gap in our networked universe had opened up and >swallowed our friend, I must tell you that I am comforted as I >contemplate what Jon has wrought. He leaves a legacy of edited documents >that tell our collective Internet story, including not only the >technical but also the poetic and whimsical as well. He completed the >incorporation of a successor to his service as IANA and leaves a lasting >legacy of service to the community in that role. His memory is rich and >vibrant and will not fade from our collective consciousness. �What would >Jon have done?� we will think, as we wrestle in the days ahead with the >problems Jon kept so well tamed for so many years. > >There will almost surely be many memorials to Jon�s monumental service >to the Internet Community. As current chairman of the Internet Society, >I pledge to establish an award in Jon�s name to recognize long-standing >service to the community, the Jonathan B. Postel Service Award, which is >awarded to Jon posthumously as its first recipient. > >If Jon were here, I am sure he would urge us not to mourn his passing >but to celebrate his life and his contributions. He would remind us that >there is still much work to be done and that we now have the >responsibility and the opportunity to do our part. I doubt that anyone >could possibly duplicate his record, but it stands as a measure of one >man�s astonishing contribution to a community he knew and loved. > -Kevlar Does God know Peano Algebra? Or does she not care if strong atheists couldnt reason their way out of a trap made of Boolean presumptions? A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing, but zero knowlege is absolutely subversive. Overspecialization breeds in weakness. It's a slow death. Beat your algorithms into swords, your dumb terminals into shields, and turn virtual machines into battlefields... Let the weak say, "I am strong" and question authority. From stuffed at stuffed.net Mon Oct 19 05:18:39 1998 From: stuffed at stuffed.net (STUFFED MON OCT 19) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 05:18:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: EVEN MORE FREE PORN: STUFFED HAS 10 LINKS TO 100S OF FREE PICS, NEW EVERY DAY Message-ID: <19981019071000.3889.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com> + 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS + 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES + VERY WET FETISH SITE + XXX PUSSY + TASHA'S TERRIBLE SECRET + PURE PIX + REAL HOT SEX + STIFF ONE EYE + WAVE DREAM + WACK OFF ZONE + ASIAN SLUTS + ANAL CLIMAX + BONUS PIC 1 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/2263.htm + BONUS PIC 2 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/9698.htm + BONUS PIC 3 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/16955.htm + BONUS PIC 4 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/17231.htm + BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/24927.htm + MUCH, MUCH MORE! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- If you haven't visited STUFFED in the last few days, you're in for a real treat. It's faster than ever before and now, as a subscriber, you get 35 FREE new pics every day, plus over 100 more at carefully selected FREE sites we link to. This email is never sent unsolicited. Stuffed is the supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full instructions on unsubscribing are in every issue of Eureka! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- From sorens at workmail.com Sun Oct 18 16:35:35 1998 From: sorens at workmail.com (Soren) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 07:35:35 +0800 Subject: Year 2000 opportunity? Message-ID: <362B1FD3.3F4DA05B@workmail.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 71 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jya at pipeline.com Sun Oct 18 17:41:48 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 08:41:48 +0800 Subject: What's up with algebra.com? In-Reply-To: <199810181651.LAA00864@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199810182353.TAA07347@camel7.mindspring.com> What with the Feds now going after CJ for attempted murder of federal officials (film ad overkill!), Jeff Gordon soliciting cypherpunk subscribers to flesh that fancy, and one CDR operator flattered with a subpoena, it'd be prudent to have a way to check on whether a CDR node has been taken down or turned, and the operator hogtied with the system as evidence (or forced to run a sting to gather it), before a clamp's put on telling what's going on. May be too late, too late. Recall it's a major offense for revealing placement of a wiretap, surveillance or a covert investigation -- especially if you're assisting, willingly or unwillingly. Not that one should advocate hiding what might be construed as evidence or exposing underbelly work that's ordered concealed. Why that might be taken to be pushing a conspiracy against WMD-crazed authority rather than promoting personal hygiene with lots of sunshine and vigorous exercise of rights to fanciful imaginings of what a world would be like without minders galore. Whistling in the dark, mind you. Consider that there are 118,000 federal prisoners. That's a very big inhospitality business, and its growing, private and feds rubbing hands and futures. For an overview of exactly how the chain operates (in case you're planning a stay or a stock buy) gander the list of its bountiful rules and regs: http://jya.com/bop-progstat.htm Inmates are forbidden access to the Internet (PS 1241.02 Internet and the World Wide Web), however, they are encouraged to do creative writing (PS 5350.07 Inmate Manuscripts), so Jim Bell, CJ and a few of us deserve a suite overlooking the garden of evil. From ichudov at Algebra.COM Sun Oct 18 18:09:57 1998 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:09:57 +0800 Subject: What's up with algebra.com? In-Reply-To: <199810182353.TAA07347@camel7.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <199810190043.TAA03178@manifold.algebra.com> As far as algebra.com is concerned, the list went down because my upstream site just installed anti-relaying rules, and everything going to algebra.com was rejected. Also, sendmail was not setuid and could not create mqueue files. I wish I could boast receiving attention from the IRS/BATF or whatever, but so far i has not happened. igor John Young wrote: > > > What with the Feds now going after CJ for attempted > murder of federal officials (film ad overkill!), Jeff Gordon > soliciting cypherpunk subscribers to flesh that fancy, > and one CDR operator flattered with a subpoena, it'd be > prudent to have a way to check on whether a CDR node > has been taken down or turned, and the operator hogtied > with the system as evidence (or forced to run a sting to > gather it), before a clamp's put on telling what's going on. > > May be too late, too late. > > Recall it's a major offense for revealing placement of a > wiretap, surveillance or a covert investigation -- especially > if you're assisting, willingly or unwillingly. > > Not that one should advocate hiding what might be construed > as evidence or exposing underbelly work that's ordered concealed. > Why that might be taken to be pushing a conspiracy against > WMD-crazed authority rather than promoting personal hygiene > with lots of sunshine and vigorous exercise of rights to fanciful > imaginings of what a world would be like without minders galore. > > Whistling in the dark, mind you. > > Consider that there are 118,000 federal prisoners. That's a very > big inhospitality business, and its growing, private and feds rubbing > hands and futures. For an overview of exactly how the chain > operates (in case you're planning a stay or a stock buy) gander > the list of its bountiful rules and regs: > > http://jya.com/bop-progstat.htm > > Inmates are forbidden access to the Internet (PS 1241.02 Internet > and the World Wide Web), however, they are encouraged to do > creative writing (PS 5350.07 Inmate Manuscripts), so Jim Bell, > CJ and a few of us deserve a suite overlooking the garden of > evil. > > > - Igor. From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sun Oct 18 18:10:03 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:10:03 +0800 Subject: What's up with algebra.com? (fwd) Message-ID: <199810190102.UAA04158@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 19:44:37 -0400 > From: John Young > Subject: Re: What's up with algebra.com? > What with the Feds now going after CJ for attempted > murder of federal officials (film ad overkill!), Jeff Gordon > soliciting cypherpunk subscribers to flesh that fancy, > and one CDR operator flattered with a subpoena, it'd be > prudent to have a way to check on whether a CDR node > has been taken down or turned, and the operator hogtied > with the system as evidence (or forced to run a sting to > gather it), before a clamp's put on telling what's going on. If anybody figures out a way to achieve such security I'd like to know. As far as I know the only way to keep a box up is to be sure that there are 'works in progress' from users who are not directly involved in the operation of the system. They are eligible for $1000/day each day they are deprived of access without a warrant. If they are completely uninvolved it *might* make a magistrate hesitate about generating a warrant. As to my subpoena, it looks like I *may* have to do nothing more than sign an affadavit saying that I didn't participate or discuss the above mentioned issues with CJ when he was in Austin. I should know more later in the week. I did find out that the reason they picked me was that when CJ was arrested he happened to be carrying a copy of the post I did several months ago in responce to a question regarding destroying floppy drives and computers using a floppy disk. Apparently they thought I might be some sort of mad-bomb designer or something. I have to assume that since I wasn't arrested at the first interview they figured I was reasonably harmless concerning assaults of the person or helping CJ in a material way. As to there being wiretaps and permanent LEA monitors on the list, you betcha. > May be too late, too late. Sigh. > Recall it's a major offense for revealing placement of a > wiretap, surveillance or a covert investigation -- especially > if you're assisting, willingly or unwillingly. They can take SSZ down or run it themselves (hope they got somebody that knows Linux 1.1.59 cause otherwise they won't be running it for long) but I won't participate in entrapment. And I suspect, though I don't know, that my arrest and lack of interaction with other users would set off flairs pretty quickly in that case. How long it might take to percolate back to Cypherpunks I don't have a clue. One major aspect of all this that I have found particularly unsettling is that I really don't have family or anybody for support. I think about the only thing worse than imagining oneself sitting in a jail with no hope of visitors, letters, etc. is a funeral with nobody there but the preacher. On a related issue, I have found it somewhat amusing that all the Austin Cpunks have scattered like a covey of quail. Only one of them even offered to help (Muchas gracias for the lawyer referals!). I had one person call and make sure that I knew they weren't at the meeting CJ attended. I'm seriously considering dropping sponsorship of the local group (and I sure as hell won't stop to help fix a flat now). > Consider that there are 118,000 federal prisoners. That's a very That means there are over 900,000 state, country, and municipal prisoners since there are over 1M in jail today. For a democracy that's incredibly damning. Legalize consenual crimes! ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- ps not crypto related but if you're a science book hound, check out: Elementary Mechanics of Fluids H. Rouse ISBN 0-486-63699-2 (Dover) $11.95 Physics by example: 200 problems and solutions WG Rees ISBN 0-521-44975-8 $? (I bought my copy used) From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sun Oct 18 18:12:02 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:12:02 +0800 Subject: What's up with algebra.com? (fwd) Message-ID: <199810190106.UAA04261@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: What's up with algebra.com? > Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 19:43:46 -0500 (CDT) > From: ichudov at algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home) > As far as algebra.com is concerned, the list went down because > my upstream site just installed anti-relaying rules, and everything > going to algebra.com was rejected. Also, sendmail was not setuid > and could not create mqueue files. Hmm. Interesting. The errors I was recieving were from algebra.com and it complained of unknown user cypherpunks. > I wish I could boast receiving attention from the IRS/BATF or > whatever, but so far i has not happened. You're welcome to mine...:) ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From vznuri at netcom.com Sun Oct 18 19:16:18 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 10:16:18 +0800 Subject: IP: 'Intelligent' computer matches mugshots w/ faces in a crowd Message-ID: <199810190135.SAA29887@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: 'Intelligent' computer matches mugshots w/ faces in a crowd Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 08:46:25 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com Source: Fox News - AP 'Intelligent' computer system matches mug shots with faces in a crowd 9.22 p.m. ET (123 GMT) October 17, 1998 LONDON (AP) � An "intelligent'' computer system that uses closed circuit television to match faces in a crowd to mug shots of known criminals is likely to become London's latest weapon against crime. Scotland Yard and a local council have installed the $100,000 CCTV system on a trial basis in Newham, a poor district in London's East End. Newspapers reported Thursday that the computer system, called Mandrake, is linked to 144 CCTVs in Newham's shopping centers, railway stations and car parks and can scan up to 150 faces at a time and compare them with a database of criminals stored on a computer at the council's headquarters. If there is a match between a face in the crowd and a known criminal, the computer alerts a monitoring team in the town hall, who in turn alert the police. Civil liberties groups said they were alarmed by the new system, but police defended its use. "The only people entered on to the system will be convicted criminals who, through our intelligence, we believe are habitually committing crimes in the area,'' The Daily Mail quoted police Chief Superintendent Dave Armond as saying. "If people are not committing crime they have nothing to fear, but if they are among the small minority who are, the message is, 'We are watching out for you.''' The newspaper reported that police initially will use the system to concentrate on catching robbery suspects. In the future, however, it could be used to search crowds for hooligans who stir up trouble at soccer matches. CCTV's developer, Software and Systems International, says the system is accurate enough to discern people hiding behind make-up or eye glasses. And growing a beard won't help either, the company says. Britain has 150,000 close circuit television cameras. While most Britons appear happy the devices are being used to tackle crime, civil liberties groups oppose both the cameras and the facial matching. "The accuracy of facial mapping like this is limited. You only need a handful of photographs of celebrities to see how different the same people can look in different pictures,'' the Mail quoted Liz Parratt, spokeswoman for Liberty, a civil rights group, as saying. "Even if you did have a system which worked, it would have to be regulated very carefully to protect people's privacy.'' � 1998 Associated Press. All rights reserved. ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From rah at shipwright.com Sun Oct 18 19:17:05 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 10:17:05 +0800 Subject: IP: Tracking: Plastic Passports w/Biometric Confirmation of ID Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Delivered-To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com X-Sender: believer at telepath.com Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 10:01:41 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Tracking: Plastic Passports w/Biometric Confirmation of ID Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Precedence: list Reply-To: believer at telepath.com Source: London Telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/et?ac=000150689433551&rtmo=0GNxrbeq&atmo=99999 999&P4_FOLLOW_ON=/98/10/18/npass18.html&pg=/et/98/10/18/npass18.html Credit card plastic passport to be issued within two years By David Bamber, Home Affairs Correspondent A NEW credit card size passport which can be inserted in a computer scanner on arrival in another country will be issued to British travellers within two years. Trials are expected to begin soon of the system which allows passengers to bypass traditional immigration officials. When entering a country travellers would insert their plastic passport in a card reader and hold their hands to a screen to check palm prints. Both would be linked to a database containing travellers' details. The process would take 15 seconds and make lengthy airport queues a thing of the past. A prototype card with a digital photograph of the holder has already been developed. Passport Agency officials have been in discussions with the computer giant IBM about their Fastgate card system which has already been installed in Bermuda, a British colony. A passport agency official said: "It looks like a credit card and it can be swiped through Customs and allow people to enter a country without having their traditional passport examined by an official." He said that the new prototype had a digital hologram photograph of the holder and other special security devices which made forging them difficult. Last night a Home Office official confirmed that the credit card-style passport is being developed. He said: "We have become involved in the early stages of exploring the IBM Fastgate system." The official said that no date has yet been set to issue the cards to the public or to start trials at an airport in the Britain. But Home Office sources have revealed that a trial of the system is likely to be carried out by installing it at a Government building so that tests can be carried out to see if the security system can be breached. John Tincey, technology officer of the Immigration Service Union which represents 2,000 staff who check passports in Britain, said his members had been aware for some time of discussions about a computerised credit card style system. He has compiled a report for his union which was submitted to the Home Office. In it, he concluded: "The new technology will save on running costs, reduce staff numbers and increase profits. Even the Home Office will be unable to resist the financial advantages of the new technology." He added that because so many other countries will introduce credit card style systems, Britain would either lose business because of retaining lengthy checks on travellers, or alternatively loosen controls by selectively abandoning checks to minimise delays. Last night he also warned of possible job losses and the danger that the cards could be open to counterfeiting or abuse. At Bermuda International Airport, the Fastgate cards were introduced in May. Travellers use a touch screen to answer a few simple questions. The computer checks the data against information held on computers and also makes sure there are no arrest warrants out or requests to intercept the traveller. Usually the process takes just 15 seconds. Ken Thornton, of IBM, said: "Governments improve security and service. Airports improve competitiveness. And airlines and card issuers improve customers service." There is even the prospect of electronic visas being issued in the future, either as separate credit card style documents or logged on a computer. Even when the credit card style passports are introduced, the traditional paper passports will still be issued for some time because many countries will take years to install the necessary technology. � Copyright of Telegraph Group Limited 1998. ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From vznuri at netcom.com Sun Oct 18 19:38:51 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 10:38:51 +0800 Subject: IP: Tracking: Plastic Passports w/Biometric Confirmation of ID Message-ID: <199810190136.SAA29899@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Tracking: Plastic Passports w/Biometric Confirmation of ID Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 10:01:41 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com Source: London Telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/et?ac=000150689433551&rtmo=0GNxrbeq&atmo=99999 999&P4_FOLLOW_ON=/98/10/18/npass18.html&pg=/et/98/10/18/npass18.html Credit card plastic passport to be issued within two years By David Bamber, Home Affairs Correspondent A NEW credit card size passport which can be inserted in a computer scanner on arrival in another country will be issued to British travellers within two years. Trials are expected to begin soon of the system which allows passengers to bypass traditional immigration officials. When entering a country travellers would insert their plastic passport in a card reader and hold their hands to a screen to check palm prints. Both would be linked to a database containing travellers' details. The process would take 15 seconds and make lengthy airport queues a thing of the past. A prototype card with a digital photograph of the holder has already been developed. Passport Agency officials have been in discussions with the computer giant IBM about their Fastgate card system which has already been installed in Bermuda, a British colony. A passport agency official said: "It looks like a credit card and it can be swiped through Customs and allow people to enter a country without having their traditional passport examined by an official." He said that the new prototype had a digital hologram photograph of the holder and other special security devices which made forging them difficult. Last night a Home Office official confirmed that the credit card-style passport is being developed. He said: "We have become involved in the early stages of exploring the IBM Fastgate system." The official said that no date has yet been set to issue the cards to the public or to start trials at an airport in the Britain. But Home Office sources have revealed that a trial of the system is likely to be carried out by installing it at a Government building so that tests can be carried out to see if the security system can be breached. John Tincey, technology officer of the Immigration Service Union which represents 2,000 staff who check passports in Britain, said his members had been aware for some time of discussions about a computerised credit card style system. He has compiled a report for his union which was submitted to the Home Office. In it, he concluded: "The new technology will save on running costs, reduce staff numbers and increase profits. Even the Home Office will be unable to resist the financial advantages of the new technology." He added that because so many other countries will introduce credit card style systems, Britain would either lose business because of retaining lengthy checks on travellers, or alternatively loosen controls by selectively abandoning checks to minimise delays. Last night he also warned of possible job losses and the danger that the cards could be open to counterfeiting or abuse. At Bermuda International Airport, the Fastgate cards were introduced in May. Travellers use a touch screen to answer a few simple questions. The computer checks the data against information held on computers and also makes sure there are no arrest warrants out or requests to intercept the traveller. Usually the process takes just 15 seconds. Ken Thornton, of IBM, said: "Governments improve security and service. Airports improve competitiveness. And airlines and card issuers improve customers service." There is even the prospect of electronic visas being issued in the future, either as separate credit card style documents or logged on a computer. Even when the credit card style passports are introduced, the traditional paper passports will still be issued for some time because many countries will take years to install the necessary technology. � Copyright of Telegraph Group Limited 1998. ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Sun Oct 18 19:39:34 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 10:39:34 +0800 Subject: IP: Fwd: Evaluation of Vehicle Stopping Prototype ("Kill Switch") Message-ID: <199810190136.SAA29909@netcom13.netcom.com> From: Bridget973 at aol.com Subject: IP: Fwd: Evaluation of Vehicle Stopping Prototype ("Kill Switch") Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 16:38:53 EDT To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com (I am posting just in case this wasn't already posted to the list..Mary) Subject: Evaluation of Vehicle Stopping Electromagnetic Prototype Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 23:34:20 -0400 From: Matthew Gaylor To: Matthew Gaylor [Note from Matthew Gaylor: Several years ago on this list I mentioned that EMP devices will soon be used to stop car chases. Several of my subscribers wrote in and said I must be crazy, that I lived in a science fiction fantasy. Oh well, the future is now.] >From the US Justice Dept.'s NCJRS listservs * Evaluation of Vehicle Stopping Electromagnetic Prototype Devices: Phase III - Engineering Field Testing Solicitation To curtail high-speed chases, NIJ is requesting applications for prototype electromagnetic devices designed to stop motor vehicles that are in motion. Approved applicants will provide prototypes for field testing, with the hope of proceeding to operational testing by law enforcement agencies. The NIJ Solicitation, "Evaluation of Vehicle Stopping Electromagnetic Prototype Devices: Phase III - Engineering Field Testing," provides information on application requirements and deadlines. "Evaluation of Vehicle Stopping Electromagnetic Prototype Devices: Phase III - Engineering Field Testing" (Solicitation) (SL000298) is available on the NCJRS World Wide Web site (http://www.ncjrs.org/txtfiles/sl298.txt) ************************************************************************** Subscribe to Freematt's Alerts: Pro-Individual Rights Issues Send a blank message to: freematt at coil.com with the words subscribe FA on the subject line. List is private and moderated (7-30 messages per week) Matthew Gaylor,1933 E. Dublin-Granville Rd.,#176, Columbus, OH 43229 Archived at http://www.reference.com/cgi-bin/pn/listarch?list=FA at coil.com ************************************************************************** -- bridget973 at aol.com Black Helicopters on the Horizon: http://members.xoom.com/bridget973 **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Sun Oct 18 19:45:17 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 10:45:17 +0800 Subject: IP: High-tech Anti-crime Computer Unveiled Message-ID: <199810190136.SAA29919@netcom13.netcom.com> From: Jan Subject: IP: High-tech Anti-crime Computer Unveiled Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 20:10:22 -0500 To: Ignition-Point

The Associated Press
LONDON -- An "intelligent" computer system that uses closed circuit television to match faces in a crowd to mug shots of criminals is likely to become London's latest weapon against crime. Scotland Yard and a local council have installed the $100,000 CCTV system for a trial in Newham, a poor district in London's East End. Newspapers reported Thursday that the computer system, called Mandrake, is linked to 144 CCTV's in shopping centers, railway stations and car parks. Mandrake can scan up to 150 faces at a time and compare them with a database of criminal mug shots stored on a computer at council headquarters. If Mandrake makes a match between a face in the crowd and a criminal's mug shot, the computer alerts a monitoring team in the town hall, which alerts the police. Civil liberties groups said they were alarmed by the new system, but police defended its use. "The only people entered on to the system will be convicted criminals who, through our intelligence, we believe are habitually committing crimes in the area," The Daily Mail quoted police Chief Superintendent Dave Armond saying. "If people are not committing crimes, they have nothing to fear, but if they are among the small minority who are, the message is, 'We are watching out for you'. The newspaper reported that the police will initially use the system to concentrate on catching robbery suspects. However, in the future it could be used to search crowds for hooligans who stir up trouble at soccer matches. CCTV's developer, Software and Systems International, said the system is accurate enough to identify people hiding behind makeup or eyeglasses. Even growing a beard won't help, the company said. Britain has 150,000 closed circuit TV cameras. Although most Britons are used to the devices, civil liberties groups oppose the cameras and the facial matching. "The accuracy of facial matching like this is limited. You only need a handful of photographs of celebrities to see how different the same people can look in different pictures," the Mail quoted Liz Parratt, spokeswoman for the civil rights group liberty, as saying. "Even if you did have a system which worked, it would have to be regulated very carefully to protect people's privacy." Transcribed by Ryan Wright from Sunday, Oct 18, 1998, Star Telegram, Fort Worth Texas, Section A page 19 ******=========================================***** "Among the elementary measures the American Soviet government will adopt to further the cultural revolution are... [a] National Department of Education...the studies will be revolutionized, being cleansed of religious, patriotic, and other features of the bourgeois ideology. The students will be taught the basis of Marxian dialectical materialism, internationalism and the general ethics of the new Socialist society." - William Z. Foster, Toward Soviet America, 1932 "...Stage III...would proceed to a point where no state would have the military power to challenge the progressively strengthened U.N. peace force... The manufacture of armaments would be prohibited... All other armaments would be destroyed..." -Department of State publication number 7277 **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From hrook at exchange.microsoft.com Sun Oct 18 19:52:54 1998 From: hrook at exchange.microsoft.com (Harvey Rook (Exchange)) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 10:52:54 +0800 Subject: 2 questions: Prime Numbers and DES Message-ID: <2FBF98FC7852CF11912A0000000000010D19AD05@DINO> > From: steve.benjamin at juno.com [mailto:steve.benjamin at juno.com] > > 1.� How can I generate 2 large prime numbers?� I doubt I > could create 2, > 100-digit prime numbers in my head :-) > For cryptographic purposes, you'll want to use a probabilistic test. Try reading through these links... http://www.utm.edu/research/primes/proving.html and... http://www.itl.nist.gov/div897/pubs/fip186.htm From schear at lvcm.com Sun Oct 18 20:21:08 1998 From: schear at lvcm.com (Steve Schear) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 11:21:08 +0800 Subject: More on Postel In-Reply-To: <36298670.B1A@att.com> Message-ID: >Damn. Talk about a blow to the heart. > >Where can I find more information about this great man and his >achievements? Has there been any memorial web sites put up? I'de be happy >to donate space on my server. Just e-mail me at god at max-web.com. Are there >any news stories worth reading on this subject? Try http://www.sjmercury.com/breaking/headline1/045392.htm Posted at 5:31 p.m. PDT Saturday, October 17, 1998 Net pioneer Postel dies after surgery From rah at shipwright.com Sun Oct 18 20:21:28 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 11:21:28 +0800 Subject: IP: [FP] All IRS appeals are exhausted, SSNs required for children Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Delivered-To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com X-Sender: believer at telepath.com Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 12:25:38 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: [FP] All IRS appeals are exhausted, SSNs required for children Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Precedence: list Reply-To: believer at telepath.com Forwarded: --------------- From: "ScanThisNews" Subject: [FP] All IRS appeals are exhausted, SSNs required for children Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 11:20:17 -0500 ====================================================================== SCAN THIS NEWS 10/18/98 Claiming children on tax returns without SSNs The following exchange is typical with regard to claiming children as deductions on federal tax returns. Names have been removed, but this is a real case. Regardless of how you feel about income taxes, the point is that the federal government no longer recognizes your children as being "yours" unless they have a Social Security Number assigned to them. More on the history of the requirement for children to be assigned SSNs (as a provision under the GATT agreement) in order for them to be acknowledged by the federal government can be found at: http://www.networkusa.org/fingerprint/page1/fp-gatt-ssn-requirements.html Scott -------------------------------------------- Subject: All IRS appeals are exhausted; US District Court, next step, SSNs for children [Name removed] As you may be aware, we did not supply IRS with Social Security numbers for our dependent children, which resulted in IRS disallowing our dependents, and we then had to pay substantially more income taxes. We appealed, using various Biblical and legal arguments, which IRS refused. We then filed a 1040X, wherein we requested a refund for the extra income tax we paid, since our dependents were disallowed and we had to pay more money. IRS told us that, in the explanation section, it was very important we explain why we failed to include social security numbers for our dependents, since our religious objections would be grounds upon which we could sue IRS for First Amendment issues. Accordingly, in the Explanation section, we included the following statement: Lack of Social Security Numbers for Children, Lines 4 & 5, 25, 28, & 30, particularly 30b. For religious reasons, our children do not have Social Security Numbers. Our legal and religious reasons are explained in the document in your possession titled: Appeal, dated 25 April 1998, which should be considered part of this 1040X form. Below is IRS' response to our 1040X. At this point, we have come to the end of the appeal process with IRS: there are no more appeals available via IRS. Any further action must be taken in court, whether it be Tax Court, US District Court, or, according to the letter, US Federal Claims Court. Unless someone convinces us that one of the other courts would be better, we intend to take the matter to US District Court, which, I've been told, is in Louisiana. As all these legal matters are entirely new to us, we encourage anyone (who knows what they are talking about) who wishes to inform us to feel free to contact us. We'll consider whatever advise anyone has to offer. How do we file? Where do we file? How do we set up the law suit so we don't ruin it for everyone in the country, as some uninformed patriots have done on other income tax related matters? Should we file a class action suit, since there are many others who are in the same predicament as we are in? Is there some other form of lawsuit that we should file? By the way, the IRS letter really does say "INDENTIFICATION NUMBER." The root of "indentification" would be indent- plus the ending -ification. The word in English closest to indent- is indenture, as in indentured servant, which is someone who, by some instrument (in this case, a SSN), makes themselves the servant of someone else for a period of time, as stated in the instrument (in the case of the SSN, forever). Then again, "indemnification," as in "indemnify," (to secure against loss) is also close to "INDENTIFICATION." Maybe they are offering us an indemification number, because if we have it, they will leave us alone, and will no longer harm us financially. IRS letter follows: ------------------------------- Department of the Treasury Internal Revenue Service In reply refer to: ............ AUSTIN, TX 73301 Aug. 25, 1998 LTR 105C [name removed] CERTIFIED MAIL Taxpayer Identification Number: 666...... Kind of Tax: INCOME Amount of Claim(s): $ 1,148.00 Date Claim(s) Received: Aug. 03, 1998 Tax Period(s): Dec. 31, 1996 Dear Taxpayer: This letter is your legal notice that we have disallowed your claim(s). We can't allow your claim(s) for refund or credit for the period(s) shown above for the reason(s) listed below. PER SECTION 151(e) STATES THAT EACH DEPENDENT MUST HAVE A INDENTIFICATION NUMBER IF THEY ARE BEING CLAIMED AS A DEPENDENT ON THE TAX RETURN. SECTION 152(e) HAS BEEN CORRECTLY APPLIED If you want to sue to recover tax, penalties, or other amounts, you may file a lawsuit with the United States District Court having jurisdiction or with the United States Court of Federal Claims. These courts are independent bodies and have no connection with the Internal Revenue Service. The law permits you to do this within 2 years from the mailing date of this letter. If you decide to appeal our decision first, the 2-year period still begins from the mailing date of this letter. However, if you signed an agreement that waived your right to the notice of disallowance (Form 2297), the period for filing a lawsuit began on the date you filed the waiver. If you have any questions, please call us. You may call ............ between the hours of 8:00 A.M. and 5:00 P.M. at ............ for assistance. If the number is outside your local calling area, there will be a long-distance charge to you. If you prefer, you may call the IRS telephone number listed in your local directory or (1-800-829-1040). An employee there may be able to help you, but the office at the address shown on this letter is most familiar with your case. If you prefer, you may write to us at the address shown at the top of the first page of this letter. Whenever you write, please include this letter and, in the spaces below, give us your telephone number with the hours we can reach you. Also, you may want to keep a copy of this letter for your records. Telephone Number ( )______________________ Hours_____________ Sincerely yours, ............... District Director Enclosure(s): Publication 1 ======================================================================= Don't believe anything you read on the Net unless: 1) you can confirm it with another source, and/or 2) it is consistent with what you already know to be true. ======================================================================= Reply to: ======================================================================= To subscribe to the free Scan This News newsletter, send a message to and type "subscribe scan" in the BODY. Or, to be removed type "unsubscribe scan" in the message BODY. For additional instructions see www.efga.org/about/maillist.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "Scan This News" is Sponsored by S.C.A.N. Host of the "FIGHT THE FINGERPRINT!" web page: www.networkusa.org/fingerprint.shtml ======================================================================= **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From mariac at dmail1.real-net.net Sun Oct 18 23:36:40 1998 From: mariac at dmail1.real-net.net (Maria Cantwell) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:36:40 +0800 Subject: RealPlayer G2 Full Beta Release *Now Available* Message-ID: <199810190558.WAA05351@dmail5.real-net.net> Dear RealPlayer Customer, At RealNetworks, we take pride in continually improving our RealPlayer products for you. We think you'll find that our latest RealPlayer release, RealPlayer G2 full beta, is a significant improvement over earlier versions. With RealPlayer G2 full beta, you'll notice dramatic quality enhancements in RealVideo with the introduction of RealVideo G2. RealVideo G2, which uses technology from Intel, delivers smoother video with higher frame rates. There's more. Read on, or download now: ==> http://www.real.com/products/player/fullbeta20.html Aside from being even more reliable than RealPlayer G2 Beta 1, the major improvements in RealPlayer G2 full beta are: * The new RealVideo G2 offers smoother and more life-like video with technology from Intel * SureStream delivers a reliable, continuous streaming media experience without rebuffering or breakups. SureStream now supports live broadcasts. * More programming, more choices with RealChannels and presets - just one click away * For high-bandwidth users, RealAudio is now CD-quality. With all these exciting new features you have to experience the excitement yourself. Download now, watch some great new content, and ENJOY! ==> http://www.real.com/products/player/fullbeta21.html Thank you for continuing to use RealNetworks products, Maria Cantwell Senior Vice President RealNetworks, Inc. Seattle, WA USA --------------------------------------------- ABOUT THIS E-MAIL Participation in RealNetworks product updates and special offers is voluntary. During the installation of the RealPlayer software you indicated a preference to receive these emails. For information about subscribing to or unsubscribing from future announcements, visit http://www.real.com/mailinglist/index.html Need help with your RealPlayer product? E-mail RealNetworks Technical Support via: http://service.real.com/contact/email.htm From totospitter at 3253137429 Mon Oct 19 15:41:45 1998 From: totospitter at 3253137429 (totospitter at 3253137429) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 15:41:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Hillary's last ditch effort potion! Message-ID: <199810192241.PAA11517@toad.com> BOOST YOUR SEX APPEAL AND CHANGE YOUR SOCIAL AND SEX LIFE FOREVER. SCIENCE AND NATURE'S SEXUAL SECRET WEAPON! Scientists have isolated the natural Human male/female Pheromone attractants and they are NOW available to YOU, legally, in the US. ATTRACT THE OPPOSITE SEX LIKE NEVER BEFORE ! IT'S GUARANTEED, or you pay nothing! PHEROMONES in the News! >From the NY Times to the LA Times. USA Today, The Wall Street Journal, Psychology Today, 20/20, Hard Copy, Single Living, Medical Tribune, Philadelphia Inquirer, Dateline, Discovery, Hustler, Playboy, Rocky Mountain News, McCalls, Penthouse, Cosmopolitan, BBC-TV, Colordao Telegraph, GQ, Time, Redbook, Fortune Magazine, and more.� Radio and Television Stations worldwide.� All have reported the scientific findings amidst excitement, controversy, commotion and thrill about pheromones and their potential use. The Press Has Said it Better Than We Can. "PUT IT TO THE TEST" MERIDIAN TV: Sold extensively in the UK, phermomones were tested live on television in the UK, when the unknowing female presenter was VERY ATTRACTED to one of the twin guys,� he was wearing "Androstenone Pheromone"� but she did not know this, and did not know why she was attracted to him ! US NEWS and WORLD REPORTS "The key to starting a love affair might be right under your nose. Scientists have just announced the discovery of a virtual sixth sense, a tiny organ in the nasal cavity that responds to chemicals known as pheromones. These natural substances are thought to play a role in basic human emotions such as fear, hunger--and love." FORTUNE MAGAZINE:� "An imaginative University of Utah anatomist named David L. Berliner was working with substances that occur in human skin. When he left some of the extracts in open vials around the lab, he noticed a sudden, puzzling rise in camaraderie among a previously acrimonious group of researchers working with him. When he changed the extracts a few months later, the group resumed its contentious ways. Berliner froze and saved the extracts. Nearly 30 years later, ...� thanks to a method of containing drugs and cosmetics inside tiny, spongelike polymer spheres, he returned to the subject. In 1989 he ... has isolated the suspected good-fellowship pheromones -- behavior-controlling substances similar to those already known to stimulate sexual activity in animals. (One whiff of a pheromone called aphrodisin from a female hamster and a male is ready to mate.) On March 3, 1998 FOX Affiliate, WSVN in Miami did a story on Pheromones, stating, "If you're looking for love, we've got a potion for passion." ...� "Tonight, a secret weapon to attract the opposite sex.� Researchers developing their own passion potion. Ever been attracted to someone but weren't really sure why? .... More and more research is pointing to chemicals these days.... undetectable chemicals... pheromones ... a clear odorless liquid" Customers Say: "... works as advertised, best product of its' kind" I've always had trouble meeting women-then I tried your product.� Now girls come up to me and introduce themselves all the time! I'd like to know if your product is available in a larger quantity so I can make sure I'm never without it! -Dave J I've been driving a tractor trailer for about 6 years and I'm on the road all the time. It's been impossible to meet women until I tried pheromones.� Now every truck stop I pull into I meet new women, and many of them ask me out. Thanks! -Tom on the Road Again, WHAT ARE PHEROMONES? Pheromones are a naturally occurring chemical compound found in all insects, all animals, and in humans. When pheromones are secreted they dictate sexual behavior and attract the opposite sex.� Be careful. Animal pheromones do NOT attract humans. Have you ever wondered why people who are not particularly attractive seem to attract dates like flies to honey?� They seem to have some "chemical attraction" about themselves. Some call it animal magnetism. It may be pheromones.� Now you can have that "chemical attraction" whenever you want. PHEROMONES - THE FACTS ������ Pheromones are natural chemicals which play an important role in sexual communication. ������ Animals, including humans release chemicals in tears, saliva and perspiration. These chemicals send signals relating to mood and health to the subconscious awareness.� One theory is that the dominant male will exude more of these chemical attractants than a submissive or weaker male.� This chemical attracts more females to him.� It is similar for woman attracting men. This natural attractant can also contribute to more intense excitement during love making (sexual foreplay and sexual intercourse). Pheromones may also contribute to the dating phrase, "chemical attraction" that we all talk about.� WSVN-TV (March 3, 1998) "Ever been attracted to someone but weren't really sure why? .... More and more research is pointing to chemicals these days.... undetectable chemicals... pheromones ... a clear odorless liquid" MORE RESEARCH AND REFERENCES: Following is some research done on products made by our manufacturer, and bottled under a different name.� It contains the same pheromone type and content as Hi-Octane http://www.angelfire.com/fl/beaches69/index.html ABOUT OUR PRODUCT: Hi-Octane (tm) .. is made up of PHEROMONES suspended in witch hazel.. This product is designed to be added to your favorite cologne or perfume. .. contains both male and female PHEROMONES. Nature never intended for just one PHEROMONE to be present; but two, male and female. Our manufacturering process uses both PHEROMONES in ALL our products. This will not attract same sex; but works as nature intended, attracting the opposite sex. .. comes in 1/8 oz. Bottle with a small funnel so you can easily pour it into your cologne or perfume. One 1/8 oz. bottle is enough to mix with 4 to 8 oz of your favorite perfume product.� Similar pheromone products have been sold for up to $100 elsewhere. We sell the the strongest product on the market today for only $39.95. BUY two -- get one free. The world's largest manufacturer of Pheromones, MC Marble, now manufactures Hi-Octane (tm), a pheromone prodcut that is the "Most Powerful sexual attractant on the Market today." HI_OCTANE is made with two powerful synthesized human pheromones, Alpha-Androstenol and Alpha-Androstenone. HI-OCTANE� will attract the opposite sex of the wearer.� McCall's magazine writes "...pheromones can improve one's love life, pheromones send out subconscious scent signals to the opposite sex that naturally trigger romantic feelings." HI-OCTANE� according to the manufacturer, may also intensify sex, by increasing sexual pleasure and endurance of both partners, and creating a higher sexual ecstasy. Individual results may vary.�� One private study claims that pheromones don't work for everyone. 75% of those trying it had success.� Isn't it worth trying? HOW TO ORDER Hi OctaneTM Hi OctaneTM is available from Euphoria Products. A 1/8 oz. bottle with a convenient funnel (to be added to your favorite perfume) is $39.95. Mix 1/4 of the bottle with every 2 oz of your favorite product. One 1/8 oz. bottle is enough to mix with 4 to 8 oz of your favorite product. ������������������������ *** � For a limited time, when you order two bottles (up to a two month's supply) of Hi Octane(tm), you'll get a third bottle ABSOLUTELY FREE. �������������������������*** Please add $3.00 shipping and handling per order. (regardless of how many bottles you order, you pay only $3.00 total!) UPS Second Day Air Delivery is available for an additional $9.00 per order.� Overnight, add $15.00 per order. Florida residents, please add applicable sales tax. For orders from outside of the US only ground shipping is available for $15. Our manufacturing facility offers the STRONGEST pheromones on the market today. Our manufacturing facility assures you that Hi-Octane will be always contain the male and female pheromones, the way nature intended it, to best attract the opposite sex for you. It is and will always be manufactured with the finest ingredients to assure your satisfaction. ������������������������SATISFACTION GUARANTEED Try Hi OctaneTM risk-free. Your satisfaction is unconditionally guaranteed. If you do not find you are meeting and dating and scoring with more people of the opposite sex after using High OctaneTM for 30 days, simply return the unused portion of your order at any time for a full refund--no questions asked. Call 520-453-0303 Extension 202,� 24 hours/day, 7 days/week for credit card orders. Have your MasterCard, Visa, American Express, and Discover Card� ready and say, " I would like to order ___ bottles of High Octane." If you would like to order by mail, you can send in a check or money order, or credit card information,� along with your name and street address (no PO Boxes please) and a day time phone number to: ������������������������ Euphoria Products Dept. 202 ���� 1859 No Pine Island Rd. Suite #133 ����������������������� � Plantation, FL 33322 The Mailing List that you are being mailed from was filtered against a Global Filter List. If you would like not to recieve any other mailings of this type please send an email to: removemenow at start.com.au with remove in the subject line. From totospitter at 3253137429 Mon Oct 19 15:41:51 1998 From: totospitter at 3253137429 (totospitter at 3253137429) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 15:41:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: You'll be their wish in life! Message-ID: <199810192241.PAA11519@toad.com> BOOST YOUR SEX APPEAL AND CHANGE YOUR SOCIAL AND SEX LIFE FOREVER. SCIENCE AND NATURE'S SEXUAL SECRET WEAPON! Scientists have isolated the natural Human male/female Pheromone attractants and they are NOW available to YOU, legally, in the US. ATTRACT THE OPPOSITE SEX LIKE NEVER BEFORE ! IT'S GUARANTEED, or you pay nothing! PHEROMONES in the News! >From the NY Times to the LA Times. USA Today, The Wall Street Journal, Psychology Today, 20/20, Hard Copy, Single Living, Medical Tribune, Philadelphia Inquirer, Dateline, Discovery, Hustler, Playboy, Rocky Mountain News, McCalls, Penthouse, Cosmopolitan, BBC-TV, Colordao Telegraph, GQ, Time, Redbook, Fortune Magazine, and more.� Radio and Television Stations worldwide.� All have reported the scientific findings amidst excitement, controversy, commotion and thrill about pheromones and their potential use. The Press Has Said it Better Than We Can. "PUT IT TO THE TEST" MERIDIAN TV: Sold extensively in the UK, phermomones were tested live on television in the UK, when the unknowing female presenter was VERY ATTRACTED to one of the twin guys,� he was wearing "Androstenone Pheromone"� but she did not know this, and did not know why she was attracted to him ! US NEWS and WORLD REPORTS "The key to starting a love affair might be right under your nose. Scientists have just announced the discovery of a virtual sixth sense, a tiny organ in the nasal cavity that responds to chemicals known as pheromones. These natural substances are thought to play a role in basic human emotions such as fear, hunger--and love." FORTUNE MAGAZINE:� "An imaginative University of Utah anatomist named David L. Berliner was working with substances that occur in human skin. When he left some of the extracts in open vials around the lab, he noticed a sudden, puzzling rise in camaraderie among a previously acrimonious group of researchers working with him. When he changed the extracts a few months later, the group resumed its contentious ways. Berliner froze and saved the extracts. Nearly 30 years later, ...� thanks to a method of containing drugs and cosmetics inside tiny, spongelike polymer spheres, he returned to the subject. In 1989 he ... has isolated the suspected good-fellowship pheromones -- behavior-controlling substances similar to those already known to stimulate sexual activity in animals. (One whiff of a pheromone called aphrodisin from a female hamster and a male is ready to mate.) On March 3, 1998 FOX Affiliate, WSVN in Miami did a story on Pheromones, stating, "If you're looking for love, we've got a potion for passion." ...� "Tonight, a secret weapon to attract the opposite sex.� Researchers developing their own passion potion. Ever been attracted to someone but weren't really sure why? .... More and more research is pointing to chemicals these days.... undetectable chemicals... pheromones ... a clear odorless liquid" Customers Say: "... works as advertised, best product of its' kind" I've always had trouble meeting women-then I tried your product.� Now girls come up to me and introduce themselves all the time! I'd like to know if your product is available in a larger quantity so I can make sure I'm never without it! -Dave J I've been driving a tractor trailer for about 6 years and I'm on the road all the time. It's been impossible to meet women until I tried pheromones.� Now every truck stop I pull into I meet new women, and many of them ask me out. Thanks! -Tom on the Road Again, WHAT ARE PHEROMONES? Pheromones are a naturally occurring chemical compound found in all insects, all animals, and in humans. When pheromones are secreted they dictate sexual behavior and attract the opposite sex.� Be careful. Animal pheromones do NOT attract humans. Have you ever wondered why people who are not particularly attractive seem to attract dates like flies to honey?� They seem to have some "chemical attraction" about themselves. Some call it animal magnetism. It may be pheromones.� Now you can have that "chemical attraction" whenever you want. PHEROMONES - THE FACTS ������ Pheromones are natural chemicals which play an important role in sexual communication. ������ Animals, including humans release chemicals in tears, saliva and perspiration. These chemicals send signals relating to mood and health to the subconscious awareness.� One theory is that the dominant male will exude more of these chemical attractants than a submissive or weaker male.� This chemical attracts more females to him.� It is similar for woman attracting men. This natural attractant can also contribute to more intense excitement during love making (sexual foreplay and sexual intercourse). Pheromones may also contribute to the dating phrase, "chemical attraction" that we all talk about.� WSVN-TV (March 3, 1998) "Ever been attracted to someone but weren't really sure why? .... More and more research is pointing to chemicals these days.... undetectable chemicals... pheromones ... a clear odorless liquid" MORE RESEARCH AND REFERENCES: Following is some research done on products made by our manufacturer, and bottled under a different name.� It contains the same pheromone type and content as Hi-Octane http://www.angelfire.com/fl/beaches69/index.html ABOUT OUR PRODUCT: Hi-Octane (tm) .. is made up of PHEROMONES suspended in witch hazel.. This product is designed to be added to your favorite cologne or perfume. .. contains both male and female PHEROMONES. Nature never intended for just one PHEROMONE to be present; but two, male and female. Our manufacturering process uses both PHEROMONES in ALL our products. This will not attract same sex; but works as nature intended, attracting the opposite sex. .. comes in 1/8 oz. Bottle with a small funnel so you can easily pour it into your cologne or perfume. One 1/8 oz. bottle is enough to mix with 4 to 8 oz of your favorite perfume product.� Similar pheromone products have been sold for up to $100 elsewhere. We sell the the strongest product on the market today for only $39.95. BUY two -- get one free. The world's largest manufacturer of Pheromones, MC Marble, now manufactures Hi-Octane (tm), a pheromone prodcut that is the "Most Powerful sexual attractant on the Market today." HI_OCTANE is made with two powerful synthesized human pheromones, Alpha-Androstenol and Alpha-Androstenone. HI-OCTANE� will attract the opposite sex of the wearer.� McCall's magazine writes "...pheromones can improve one's love life, pheromones send out subconscious scent signals to the opposite sex that naturally trigger romantic feelings." HI-OCTANE� according to the manufacturer, may also intensify sex, by increasing sexual pleasure and endurance of both partners, and creating a higher sexual ecstasy. Individual results may vary.�� One private study claims that pheromones don't work for everyone. 75% of those trying it had success.� Isn't it worth trying? HOW TO ORDER Hi OctaneTM Hi OctaneTM is available from Euphoria Products. A 1/8 oz. bottle with a convenient funnel (to be added to your favorite perfume) is $39.95. Mix 1/4 of the bottle with every 2 oz of your favorite product. One 1/8 oz. bottle is enough to mix with 4 to 8 oz of your favorite product. ������������������������ *** � For a limited time, when you order two bottles (up to a two month's supply) of Hi Octane(tm), you'll get a third bottle ABSOLUTELY FREE. �������������������������*** Please add $3.00 shipping and handling per order. (regardless of how many bottles you order, you pay only $3.00 total!) UPS Second Day Air Delivery is available for an additional $9.00 per order.� Overnight, add $15.00 per order. Florida residents, please add applicable sales tax. For orders from outside of the US only ground shipping is available for $15. Our manufacturing facility offers the STRONGEST pheromones on the market today. Our manufacturing facility assures you that Hi-Octane will be always contain the male and female pheromones, the way nature intended it, to best attract the opposite sex for you. It is and will always be manufactured with the finest ingredients to assure your satisfaction. ������������������������SATISFACTION GUARANTEED Try Hi OctaneTM risk-free. Your satisfaction is unconditionally guaranteed. If you do not find you are meeting and dating and scoring with more people of the opposite sex after using High OctaneTM for 30 days, simply return the unused portion of your order at any time for a full refund--no questions asked. Call 520-453-0303 Extension 202,� 24 hours/day, 7 days/week for credit card orders. Have your MasterCard, Visa, American Express, and Discover Card� ready and say, " I would like to order ___ bottles of High Octane." If you would like to order by mail, you can send in a check or money order, or credit card information,� along with your name and street address (no PO Boxes please) and a day time phone number to: ������������������������ Euphoria Products Dept. 202 ���� 1859 No Pine Island Rd. Suite #133 ����������������������� � Plantation, FL 33322 The Mailing List that you are being mailed from was filtered against a Global Filter List. If you would like not to recieve any other mailings of this type please send an email to: removemenow at start.com.au with remove in the subject line. From jacket9 at primenet.com Mon Oct 19 01:38:33 1998 From: jacket9 at primenet.com (jacket9 at primenet.com) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 16:38:33 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199810190810.BAA05650@smtp01.primenet.com> Are you a skeptic when it comes to health and well being products that claim they can do everything they say they can? Well I am and I did not believe this product worked until I tried it out on myself and found out that it really does work. Do you suffer from discomfort of any kind? Are you looking for something that can relieve that discomfort? Well this product may be the answer! My name is Tony and I am promoting a product that is beginning its introduction in the United States from a company in Japan which involves the use of special magnets for wellness therapy. You may have seen other companies claiming that magnets help reduce discomfort from anything from headaches to cramps to sore muscles but their magnets are not nearly as effective as they should be because of the way they were designed. This is where I come in, I am promoting a company whose magnets are specially designed to stimulate all the nerve endings in your body by the special diamond design that is patented by only one company in the world. Other magnets have the north and south poles (where the magnetic power is held) in a standard straight up and down design but the magnets I promote have the patented diamond design where the poles do not run up and down but are angled in all directions in order to stimulate each nerve ending. Since our bodies are not designed where our nerve endings are up and down we need something that will be able to cover us in all directions. These special magnets have been tested on people with many different kinds of discomfort ranging from anywhere to a simple minor headache to muscle cramps, heartburn, aching backs, tired feet, bruises, cuts, indigestion, physical discomfort from stress, even dental plaque! All the test subjects showed moderate to complete recovery from these and many other discomforts they suffered. These magnets not only ease your discomfort but they also provide you with a little extra strength and energy when you need it the most. Even if you just bumped your head or have suffered from chronic discomfort from something for years this product will help ease it as long as you keep it on your body. In some people they got results in a matter of minutes from slight discomfort but for patients who have been suffering the results may take a few days to notice a difference. This does work on anyone in any age group from small children to senior citizens, however, pregnant women and anyone with heart devices should not use this product. People who have had surgery done who have had any kind of metal or plastic can use this product also! To find out more please reply to me, Tony, and ask me about these magnets. I can tell you that any other magnet you buy at a cheap discount price ie $18 for a whole set that they do not work because of the north and south magnetic poles are being up and down. This company has a patented design where the north and south poles run in every direction stimulating each nerve ending in our body. I can tell you that this product really works and for just $18 I can send you a magnet that will help relieve just about any minor physical discomfort you suffer from. I also have a long line of other products that use these patented magnets such as: shoe inserts that will help soothe tired and sore feet but will also soothe your body all the way up your legs, wrist bands, ankle bands, knee bands that have the magnets throughout the entire band, a belt, even a gold or pearl necklace with the magnets built in! PLease reply if you are interested or would like further information. Thank you From christine at 1stnettech.com Mon Oct 19 18:56:49 1998 From: christine at 1stnettech.com (christine at 1stnettech.com) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 18:56:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: ADV: U.S. Patent Office Grants Patent On QPI's Breakthrough Message-ID: <199810191753.SAA02524@websites> U.S. Patent Office Grants Patent On QPI's Breakthrough PhotoMotion Multi-Imaging Technology Quik Pix Inc. Buena Park, CA (OTCBB SYMBOL: QPIX) announced today that the Company has been granted the Patent on a breakthrough technology, PhotoMotion Multi-Imaging. QPI is a company specializing in high quality photographic imaging and visual marketing technologies. The Patent just awarded covers the technology enabling QPI to combine three or more images into a single color transparency that, as if by magic, changes as the astonished viewer moves past the image. The image moves with the viewer. The illusion is optical and requires no special equipment or other mechanism to create this mystical effect. PhotoMotion Multi-Imaging Technology images combined with text or graphics readily fit into existing light box fixtures creating a visual presentation that is so amazing and distinct that PhotoMotion stands to revolutionize the imaging for most backlit advertising displays used in tradeshows, point of purchase locations, foot traffic venues, etc. Mr. John Capie, QPI President, said, "Everyone who sees PhotoMotion is very enthusiastic. The responses from advertisers, marketers, and photo industry people have been very positive. This is going to be a photographic milestone." For more information about our company and this investment opportunity, please visit http://www.1stnettech.com/qpix/ This news release includes forward-looking statements that are subject to risks and uncertainties, including risks associated with the company's: (1) entry into new markets and development and introduction of new products; and (2) the company's need to finance costs related thereto. Actual results may vary from those projected or implied by such statements. Quik Pix Inc. 7050 Village Drive Suite F Buena Park, CA. 90621 John Capie President Inside Southern California - 800-734-0432 Outside Southern California - 714 522-8255 _________________________________________________________________________ Further transmissions to you by the sender of this e-mail may be stopped at no cost to you by replying to remove at 1stnettech.com We apologize for any inconvenience From astor at guardian.no Mon Oct 19 06:55:12 1998 From: astor at guardian.no (Alexander Kjeldaas) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 21:55:12 +0800 Subject: Disk (block device) encryption for Linux and *BSD? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <19981019150728.A19456@lucifer.guardian.no> On Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 01:30:06PM -0000, HyperReal-Anon wrote: > > Apologies for the interruption, > > I'm looking for disk / partition encryption for Unix-alikes, especially > Linux, OpenBSD and/or NetBSD. > > My websearch has been less than satisfactory - I found outdated Linux > kernel patches for encryption loopback, and I distinctly remember reading > about a serious bug in the use (or lack thereof) of key material in this > code. > > Do patches for a current Linux kernel exist, and have all the known > bugs been fixed? > I have collected the available loop-crypto patches in the international kernel patch. It contains blowfish,twofish,serpent, and cast-128 modules (and an idea module which I haven't ported yet). The loopback modules have been updated to work with the latest loopback patches. I plan on adding other AES candidates - I have free implementations of rc6, rijndael, mars, and dfc. The patch is available from: ftp://ftp.kerneli.org/pub/linux/kerneli/v2.1/patch-int-2.1.125.2.gz I have a collection of utilities you'll need and other 2.0-crypto stuff mirrored at: ftp://ftp.kerneli.org/pub/linux/kerneli/net-source/ astor -- Alexander Kjeldaas, Guardian Networks AS, Trondheim, Norway http://www.guardian.no/ From interception1001 at hotmail.com Mon Oct 19 08:42:02 1998 From: interception1001 at hotmail.com (christian masson) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 23:42:02 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <19981019145116.12414.qmail@hotmail.com> SUBJECT: EU-USA ECHELON TO: OMEGA FOUNDATION + European Parliament (civil liberties,...) DT: 9/19/98 Ref.: Mr Steve Right OMEGA FOUNDATION Author of: http://www.europarl.eu.int/dg4/stoa/en/publi/166499/execsum.htm I/ Section 2.3, you said: " Modern snoopers can buy specially adapted lap top computers, and simply tune in to all the mobile phones active in the area by cursoring down to their number. The machine will even search for numbers 'of interest' to see if they are active." Actually, only a public logger: http://www.rsd.de/PRODUKT/22da.htm is able to catch IMSIs and intercept called-calling parties. Do you know the model that you mentionned? II/ No a word about 100 Millions GSM mapped&traced. Why? GSM Trace Scandal exposed: http://jya.com/gsm-scandal.htm III/ Latest GSM EUser Traking Table: http://www.ii-mel.com/interception/mobile_tracegb.htm IV/ European Electronic Surveillance: http://www.ii-mel.com/interception Congratulations, except GSM-trace, for your objectivity. Regards, Christian Masson La Ferme Ch.Pierrefleur 74 Pobox505 CH- 1000 Lausanne 17 _______________________ interception at ii-mel.com _______________________ GSM TRACE PROTEST PETITION ON CYBERCRATE (belgium parlement) http://www.axismundi.org/Cf/laurus/cybercrate/belgium/fr/actions.htm ______________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From whgiii at invweb.net Mon Oct 19 10:51:36 1998 From: whgiii at invweb.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 01:51:36 +0800 Subject: What's up with algebra.com? In-Reply-To: <199810190043.TAA03178@manifold.algebra.com> Message-ID: <199810191722.MAA008.39@geiger.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <199810190043.TAA03178 at manifold.algebra.com>, on 10/18/98 at 07:43 PM, ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) said: >As far as algebra.com is concerned, the list went down because my >upstream site just installed anti-relaying rules, and everything going to >algebra.com was rejected. Also, sendmail was not setuid and could not >create mqueue files. >I wish I could boast receiving attention from the IRS/BATF or whatever, >but so far i has not happened. What is with these fascist ISP who think they have a *right* to regulate the data stream of others? What's next, are they going to start blocking domains because they don't like what is on a web page, or because they don't like an e-mail message someone posts?? Don't have to worry about government censorship there are plenty of civilians that are willing to do the work for them. :( - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.openpgp.net Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: "640K ought to be enough for anybody." - Bill Gates, 1981 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNit1SY9Co1n+aLhhAQE+xwP+JcgMUEkGgdiXqDPEOKWloMjMBVtSjVVw pXukU+k6IAhpuFFA5hmuK9ISrk1NMaY0T907LRnLJnpD1deqXIFTLnEdncI6c7+T L2zWcpycJZDyhUMOGQJ1cqwIXHBjLKUQjOMEAI+HRQnZ75S5L/siXVHZ6kmN84iF 8Pc62LP3NP8= =pB38 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From rah at shipwright.com Mon Oct 19 10:58:29 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 01:58:29 +0800 Subject: dbts: The Economic Cause of Privacy Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rah at pop.sneaker.net Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 11:20:38 -0400 To: dbs at philodox.com From: Robert Hettinga Subject: dbts: The Economic Cause of Privacy Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Subscribe: X-Web-Archive: http://www.philodox.com/dbs-archive/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 7:45 AM -0400 on 10/19/98, Anonymous forwarded this to the dbs list: > see http://www.zolatimes.com/V2.23/anonymittext.html It's just another financial privacy rant, though a relatively decent one. It's from J. Orlin Grabbe, who was at FC98, BTW. When I met him at S&PBank's party at Cap Julaca, he seemed like a nice, though fairly intense, guy. Financial privacy *makes* you intense, I suppose. Nonetheless, like all financial privacy rants, Orlin's reverses cause and effect, but it's not really his fault. Remember, the reason we have no financial privacy these days is because we have book-entry settlement, which relies on biometric identity, known physical location, and the force of a nation state as the ultimate "error-handler" to prevent repudiation in the transaction protocol. The reason we have book-entry settlement itself is because it is several orders of magnitude cheaper than physical delivery of paper bearer certificates. The *only* way to have financial privacy in a book-entry world is to engage in the financial equivalent of steganography, which, no matter how financially and legally facile -- even elegant -- it is, at the margin it costs more to hide money than not to. It will always cost more in a book-entry economy, and for structural reasons. Worse, most of these accounting and legal gyrations are just plain old security by obscurity, something most crypto-clueful people learn, fairly early on, to treat with the utmost scorn and derision. If my hypothesis is right, and digital bearer settlement is significantly cheaper than book-entry settlement, say three orders of magnitude cheaper, then financial privacy will be the default state of affairs sooner or later. It will actually cost *more* to keep transaction records and the physical location of economic actors than not to. No amount of physical force, much less law, accounting, or "policy", will change that physical, economic, fact. A fact which every economic actor, from the smallest proprietor to the largest nation state, will end up ignoring at their peril. The reason digital bearer settlement will be faster, and thus cheaper, is because the cryptographic protocol breaks before the transaction can. Unlike a book entry protocol, where you can execute a trade and then renege on it later, causing bounced checks, charge-backs, broken trades, DKs and the like, software using a digital bearer protocol can execute *only* if both parties cannot renege on the transaction in the first place. One of the best guarantors of that inability to renege is, paradoxically, cryptographically certain anonymity. Immediate and final clearing and settlement means that you tend not to care who you've done business with in the first place, but cryptographic anonymity not only makes the transaction stronger and safer, it is the very enabling technology of the process, the thing which makes digital bearer transaction settlement the fastest, and, systemically, the cheapest transaction technology to use. Again, it's just like air travel. You can go very fast on land, much faster than it takes to fly even without wings, as sound-barrier-breaking speed records show us. But, the physical, economic fact is, people can travel the fastest and cheapest over the longest distances when they fly, so that's what they do. They don't fly just because the view's nicer, or, as I've joked before, "to slip the surly bounds of earth". And, most important, this economic reality, that economics ultimately determines a technology's use, is true no matter what the intent is of any airplane -- or bearer protocol -- designer. The cost of anything is the foregone alternative. One of costs of book-entry settlement is privacy, surely, but in a world of strong financial cryptography and ubiquitous geodesic networks, the primary cost of book-entry settlement is wasted time and computing resources. Costs which will eventually force the adoption of digital bearer transaction settlement, giving us ubiquitous financial privacy -- and freedom -- as a result. Effects of our technology, in other words. Not its cause. Cheers, Bob Hettinga -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5 iQEVAwUBNitXcMUCGwxmWcHhAQHApAf/f1mtuoqig0dsyOa6d5n39N4O8EmCykST eF2+s+cDP6Nur4KZ8PdFXczfQIBot3Hn7NYWR1cUwvuxE2yJJSBDLKd3MK7ubQey qyLtRA8Z033q2OqUmMIc3v62QrtusBO1Xbbdgx800Z5IyuwlprfN6VPcaNpTzIl6 zmdS8KLjj1z2I/C0gi715cyQ/X9y11FHrgvXmF/7HTcbH+mtxQHxxl44DrbqVPBQ XTPU09+1UpVirhIq7KQgSAXD+GFNsr5LGSRVsdtXGQJy8mbSkmsMMOrVOG32yqa9 Ual0RqEC7ELQQLWx+86g7f5loNJEQzgTggYOGZs0AIIZJPUG1WnvAw== =PqXA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From fisherm at tce.com Mon Oct 19 12:22:02 1998 From: fisherm at tce.com (Fisher Mark) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 03:22:02 +0800 Subject: 2 questions: Prime Numbers and DES Message-ID: <2C396693FBDED111AEF60000F84104A721C02B@indyexch_fddi.indy.tce.com> >2. Is there an implentation of DES in perl? I didn't see a link to one >on the export-a-sig page. If not perl, is there one for DOS? I'm >looking for a bare bones one, not something with tons of features >and a GUI. A perl or dos version of the unix "des" program would be >preferable. CPAN (the Comprehensive Perl Archive Network), , is your friend -- use it. (Look under "Authentication, Security and Encryption" -- there are 3 versions of DES listed, along with an interface to SSLeay, which includes DES as one of its algorithms). ========================================================== Mark Leighton Fisher Thomson Consumer Electronics fisherm at indy.tce.com Indianapolis, IN "Their walls are built of cannon balls, their motto is 'Don't Tread on Me'" From mmotyka at lsil.com Mon Oct 19 12:46:37 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 03:46:37 +0800 Subject: IP: Fwd: Evaluation of Vehicle Stopping Prototype ("Kill Switch") Message-ID: <362B8D7F.888@lsil.com> > [Note from Matthew Gaylor: Several years ago on this list I mentioned > that EMP devices will soon be used to stop car chases. Several of my > subscribers wrote in and said I must be crazy, that I lived in a > science fiction fantasy. Oh well, the future is now.] These ideas have been around for more than a few years. In the past year or so I've seen two systems on Discovery Channel. One was a flat strip that was unrolled across the road and generated some ESD when the car crossed it. The other one was a cockamamie toy rocket car that would be deployed by the pursuing car and run under the pursued. They say it shows promise. These things are fine. It would probably require small effort to devise effective CM. The project solicitation is pretty nasty however: they very casually talk about high energy RF. I would say pointing that crap at anyone would come under "reckless endangerment". I miss the days of mechanical ignition points and carbureters! BTW - Did you see the bullshit that happened up in Vallejo? Cops sent a dog into a culvert after a suspect. The suspect shot and killed the dog. The police had a full-fledged funeral, casket and all for the fucking dog. Flowers all over he place, mourners. Now they're buying goddamned kevlar vests for their dogs. Fuckheads. Who's the citizen? The human or the dog? As for the suspect he's charged with something for killing the dog. Simple destruction of property, which would be a charge befitting the act, is probably not enough to avenge beloved Bowser's death. Because it's a cop-dog-on-duty the penalty is probably more than restitution and some community service. Jail time for defending yourself against an attack dog? I think maybe our society is suffering from a form of mass insanity induced by the fucking television programming. LE seem to think they're John Wayne or Steven Segal. They actually believe the brain-dead, binary morality of pop fiction. Us vs Them, Good-guys vs. Bad-guys, Human vs. Non-human. The lack of perspective is mind-blowing. Mike From davidwatts_98 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 19 13:29:25 1998 From: davidwatts_98 at yahoo.com (David Watts) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 04:29:25 +0800 Subject: EU Privacy Directive Message-ID: <19981019195132.27759.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> Deadline for EU Data Privacy Law Prompts Worry Among Businesses By JENNIFER L. SCHENKER and JULIE WOLF Special to THE WALL STREET JOURNAL The mounds of data that zap electronically across borders may face some travel restrictions as a European Union law takes effect this week. Three years of talks between the EU and the U.S. have failed to find a compromise on how to protect the privacy of data, and that has businesses and consumer groups worried. The issue arose in 1995, when Citibank Deutschland AG came under attack for a co-branded credit-card program with Deutsche Bahn AG. The program, Germany's data police decided, invaded the privacy of citizens because the sign-up questionnaire was too nosy and the data was processed in the U.S. The bank made headlines by offering to allow Germany's data police to come to the U.S. to inspect its data-processing arrangements. Citibank solved its problems in Germany, but the European Commission reasoned national data regulators couldn't possibly travel to the U.S. to verify the compliance of all of the companies in Europe that send personal data abroad for processing. Instead, the commission passed a law that gave national data regulators wide powers to control what type of data can be processed abroad and let them halt exports of personal data to countries that don't have adequate protection, such as the U.S. EU member states were given three years to institute necessary changes. Intensified Negotiations Businesses panicked at the prospect of having data flows cut off, databases erased and huge fines levied. Negotiations intensified between Europe and the U.S., which planned to ensure data protection mainly through industry self-regulation. Three years later, just days before the deadline, a solution has yet to be found, and Citibank and other multinationals doing business in Europe are back in the headlines again, the targets of privacy advocates who want to inspect transborder data flows. At issue is how U.S. companies operating in Europe can send data back to the U.S. without running afoul of strict new EU legislation on data protection. The issue won't be settled before the legislation goes into effect Oct. 25 although U.S. and EU officials say they are hopeful enough progress has been made to ensure that companies won't see their data flows interrupted on Oct. 26. "The message to business should be don't panic," advised Francis Aldhouse, deputy data-protection registrar at the U.K.'s office of data protection. "Nothing great and dramatic" is going to happen this week when the directive goes into force, he said. Threat of Legal Action But uncertainty abounds, and big companies in Europe are worried they could face legal action from a variety of quarters, including Privacy International, a Washington, D.C.-based watchdog group that plans to increase its activities in Europe. "This is not a deal that can be cut between the White House and Brussels," said Simon Davies, Privacy International's director. "The data-protection directive establishes new constitutional rights in Europe and gives us a mandate to move forward." Between now and Jan. 15, Privacy International will meet with 25 multinational corporations and government agencies it has identified. The group wants to examine data flows through available public records to determine whether these companies are in compliance with the new laws. At the moment all personal data gathered from European clients that is processed outside the EU is suspect. Hong Kong, Quebec and New Zealand are the exceptions because they have received the commission's stamp of approval for providing adequate protection. Only three EU countries are expected to meet the commission's Oct. 25 deadline for implementing the data-protection directive -- Italy, Greece and Finland. "Business can not live with such uncertainty," said Mark Loliver, legal adviser to the European Federation of Direct Marketing. Possible Solutions Solutions on the table include: 1. Setting up safe harbors, a compromise that would allow U.S. companies operating in Europe to ship data back to the U.S. even though the U.S. itself won't get the European Commission's stamp of approval for adequate protection. The U.S. Commerce Department would issue principles on data privacy, and companies agreeing to abide by these would be allowed to transfer data from Europe to the U.S. 2. Drawing up model contracts between companies operating in Europe and those that process data overseas. The foreign companies would have to commit to meeting Europe's data privacy standards. 3. Implementing new software solutions that are designed to allow companies that handle personal information about consumers to meet privacy requirements. Both the U.S. and EU have shifted considerably from their original positions. The commission is no longer insisting that the U.S. adopt national data-protection legislation. And the U.S. now concedes that consumers should be able to complain to an independent group about a company's behavior. The commission will have to get the support of member states for any compromise at two meetings this month, the first of which will be held Monday. Model Contract Meanwhile the International Chamber of Commerce, British Federation of Business and a number of other organizations are jointly working on a model contract that could be drawn up between a company operating in Europe and the company which processes data for it abroad, said Colin Fricker, director of legal affairs at the U.K.'s Direct Marketing Association and a member of the model contract working party of the Confederation of British Industry. Separately, some companies hope to tackle the problem with technological solutions. NCR Inc., a Dayton, Ohio, data-warehousing specialist said that beginning in January it will build in new software features that will allow the auditing of computer databases to ensure compliance with government data privacy regulations. Its clients include financial institutions and retailers. For its part, Privacy International says neither model contracts or technological solutions offer adequate protection. "Companies in the U.S. continue to maintain that industry code of practice and privacy-enhancing technology afford protection and it does not -- it is a very tiny step in the right direction," said Privacy International's Mr. Davies. "The message we want to give the U.S. is why are you following an outdated libertarian philosophy when you know it is going to cost you dearly." _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Mon Oct 19 13:42:50 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 04:42:50 +0800 Subject: 2 questions: Prime Numbers and DES In-Reply-To: <2C396693FBDED111AEF60000F84104A721C02B@indyexch_fddi.indy.tce.com> Message-ID: <199810191956.UAA08549@server.eternity.org> > Steve Benjamin writes: > >2. Is there an implentation of DES in perl? I didn't see a link to one > >on the export-a-sig page. If not perl, is there one for DOS? I'm > >looking for a bare bones one, not something with tons of features > >and a GUI. A perl or dos version of the unix "des" program would be > >preferable. > > CPAN (the Comprehensive Perl Archive Network), > , is your friend -- use it. (Look under > "Authentication, Security and Encryption" -- there are 3 versions of DES > listed, along with an interface to SSLeay, which includes DES as one of its > algorithms). Steve Reid wrote an RSA key generator in perl and dc. See: http://sea-to-sky.net/~sreid/rsagen.txt I am not sure about the security of the keygeneration algorithm. Ron Rivest suggested it as a hack to more easily generate keys on the coderpunks list I think a year or so back, when Steve was discussing easier ways to generate valid RSA keys. But I am not sure if such keys are hard to factor or not. Perhaps one should ask Rivest before using it, you'll have to check the archives for Rivest's comments, unless you can understand the alogirthm from Steve's code. Also you asked about DES, here's a compact perl version of DES (not on my web page, must have forgotten to add it), by John Allen: #!/bin/perl -s-- DES in perl5 $/=" ";sub u{$_=;s/\s//g;map{-33+ord}/./g}$"='';$[=1;@S=map{[u]}1..8;@I= u;@F=u;@C=(split//,unpack B64,pack H16,$k.0 x16)[u];@D=splice at C,29;@p=u;$_=11 . 2222221 x2;for$l(/./g){map{push@$_,splice@$_,1,$l}\@C,\@D;$K[++$i]="@{[(@C, at D) [@p]]}"}@E=u;@P=u;%a=map{unpack(B8,chr$_),$_}0..63;while(read STDIN,$b,8){@L=( split//,unpack B64,$b."\0"x7)[@I];@R=splice at L,33;for$i(1..16){$i=17-$i if$d;@t =@R[@E];$j=1;$n=0;for(($K[$i]^"@t"|0 x48)=~/.{6}/g){($n<<=4)+=${$S[$j++]}[$a{ "00$_"}+1]};@t=(split//,unpack B32,pack N,$n)[@P];@X=split//,"@L"^"@t"|0 x32; @L=@R;@R=@X}print pack B64,join'',(@R, at L)[@F]}__END__~printunpacku,'$2F%P:```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aY QIA91)ZRJB:2*"\TLD<4,$^VNF>6.&`XPH at 80( I)Q1Y9aAH(P0X8`@G'O/W7_?F&N.V6^>E%M-U5] =D$L,T4\6.& =5-% /2,9"&$=0'6+84-%;)1(<5.#JU at FPX?ITNBQMRHYCVOKSE>A A"#$%&%&'()*)*+,-.-./012 12345656789:9:;<=>=>?@A" 1(56>-=2"08;&3 at +#)9/A<$*4.?'7,%: Adam From declan at well.com Mon Oct 19 14:38:41 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 05:38:41 +0800 Subject: "Microsoft is racist" Message-ID: <199810192111.OAA06317@smtp.well.com> http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/15702.html On the sidewalk in front of the building, a handful of protesters held up a sign saying "Microsoft is racist." The group attacked the company for not donating money to Howard University, which is predominately black. From wcd at Adobe.COM Mon Oct 19 15:24:45 1998 From: wcd at Adobe.COM (Adobe Systems) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 06:24:45 +0800 Subject: Your New Adobe Customer Number Message-ID: <199810192141.OAA02380@mail-sea.sea.Adobe.COM> Thank you for registering with Adobe Systems, Inc. Your new Online Customer ID is: 2202094119525317 The PIN you entered and confirmed has been encrypted and stored with your registration information. Please remember your Customer ID and PIN for the next time you login as an Adobe Customer on www.adobe.com. From k-elliott at wiu.edu Mon Oct 19 16:43:10 1998 From: k-elliott at wiu.edu (Kevin Elliott) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 07:43:10 +0800 Subject: IP: Fwd: Evaluation of Vehicle Stopping Prototype ("KillSwitch") In-Reply-To: <362B8D7F.888@lsil.com> Message-ID: >BTW - Did you see the bullshit that happened up in Vallejo? Cops sent a >dog into a culvert after a suspect. The suspect shot and killed the dog. >The police had a full-fledged funeral, casket and all for the fucking >dog. Flowers all over he place, mourners. Now they're buying goddamned >kevlar vests for their dogs. Fuckheads. Who's the citizen? The human or >the dog? It costs money to train an attack dog- kevlar sounds like a good way to protect the states investment. >As for the suspect he's charged with something for killing the dog. Definitely manslaughter, probably 2nd or even 1st degree murder. In (I believe) every state the union the penalty for shooting a police dog is the same as shooting an on duty police officer. Police dogs are effectively classified as deputies. >Simple destruction of property, which would be a charge befitting the >act, is probably not enough to avenge beloved Bowser's death. Because >it's a cop-dog-on-duty the penalty is probably more than restitution and >some community service. Jail time for defending yourself against an >attack dog? I'm not sure the issue is as simple as you paint it. You say defending yourself from an attack dog- however attack dog implies your life was in danger (if it was it would be comfortably within your rights to shoot the dog as self defense) inherent in it being a police dog is that it is well trained and won't kill you (this is in general- I don't know the specifics of the case and so don't have perfect info on what was going on when he shot the dog). Their is also the issue of resisting arrest (I don't know exactly how he got in that culvert, but I suspect he wasn't enjoying the scenery) and shooting at the police. We have to consider shooting at the dog in the same category as shooting at the police for the same reason shooting at their car would be in the same category as shooting at the police. Regardless we know have a total of 3 crimes that seem to me add up to jail time regardless of whatever he was originally being chased for. 1. Resisting arrest 2. Shooting at the police 3. Killing the dog (whatever crime you want to classify this as) ___________________________________________________________________________ "DOS/WIN based computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq, Tandy, and millions of others, are by far the most popular, with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans, on the other hand, note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans, and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form." - New York Times -Kevin "The Cubbie" Elliott From stuffed at stuffed.net Tue Oct 20 08:14:13 1998 From: stuffed at stuffed.net (STUFFED TUE OCT 20) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:14:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: EVEN MORE FREE PORN: STUFFED HAS 10 LINKS TO 100S OF FREE PICS, NEW EVERY DAY Message-ID: <19981020071000.4746.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com> + 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS + 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES + ULTRA FREE XXX + ABSOLUT FREE HARDCORE + BIMBO DIGEST + ASIAN ACTION + BOOBS R US + ALL DAY PUSSY PARTY + MISS TEASE FREE XXX PLAYHOUSE + HOT SEX 4 U + THE IDEAL NUDE BEACH + GALLERY XXX + BONUS PIC 1 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/29645.htm + BONUS PIC 2 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/20932.htm + BONUS PIC 3 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/31091.htm + BONUS PIC 4 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/31754.htm + BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/21188.htm + MUCH, MUCH MORE! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- If you haven't visited STUFFED in the last few days, you're in for a real treat. 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Memphis, Tennessee www.tcii.net/premonition From rah at shipwright.com Mon Oct 19 18:19:54 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:19:54 +0800 Subject: Dorkslayers.. Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text From: steven.soroka at mts.mb.ca X-Lotus-FromDomain: MTS To: coderpunks at toad.com Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 18:02:52 -0500 Subject: Dorkslayers.. Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-coderpunks at toad.com Precedence: bulk You'll notice that toad.com is on the dorkslayers list, (under ip 140.174.2.1).. It'd advisable to find a way to remove it.. --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From vznuri at netcom.com Mon Oct 19 18:20:02 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:20:02 +0800 Subject: IP: WEBSITE: Military Operations on Urbanized Terrain (MOUT) Message-ID: <199810200056.RAA08052@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: WEBSITE: Military Operations on Urbanized Terrain (MOUT) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 00:39:27 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com Forwarded: ---------------- Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 21:44:43 -0700 From: "A.C." Subject: WEBSITE: Military Operations on Urbanized Terrain (MOUT) BELOW IS A SITE WORTH VISITING AND DESERVING OF CAREFUL STUDY, as the US military has made it clear in its numerous documents, that a considerable segment of the US population is suspect, and a sizable number are of the "warrior classes," hence must be contained. Machiavelli, a shrewd military strategist, understood well the strategies for keeping the balance of power and, thus, advised the princes of Renaissance Italy, which at that time were a collection of powerful city-states, always at war with each other. Machiavelli's strategies AND PHILOSOPHIES, have been, still are, the subject of SERIOUS study by US military strategists. "He [the prince or any ruler] must, therefore, never raise his thought from this exercise of war, and in peacetime, he must train himself more than in time of war; this can be done in two ways: one by action, the other by the mind. And as far as actions are concerned, besides keeping his soldiers well disciplined and trained, he must always be out hunting, and must accustom his body to hardships in this manner; and HE MUST ALSO LEARN THE NATURE OF THE TERRAIN, AND KNOW HOW MOUNTAINS SLOPE, HOW VALLEYS OPEN, HOW PLAINS LIE, AND UNDERSTAND THE NATURE OF RIVERS AND SWAMPS; [emphasis ac] and he should devote much attention to such activities. ... and a Prince who lacks this ability lacks the most important quality in a leader; because this skill teaches you to find the enemy, choose a campsite, lead troops, organize them for battle, and besiege towns to your own advantage." .... Therefore, a prince must not worry about the reproach of cruelty when it is a matter of keeping his subjects united and loyal; ......." The Prince, by Machiavelli. > >http://earthops.org/sovereign/urban_warfare/ >Military Operations on Urbanized Terrain (MOUT) FM 90-10 Headquarters Department of Army Washington, DC, 15 August 1979 FM 90-10 Military Operations on Urbanized Terrain (MOUT) Table of Contents CHAPTER 1... INTRODUCTION Urbanization Characteristics of Urban Warfare CHAPTER 2... OFFENSE How the Enemy Defends Planning the Attack The Offensive Battle Corps Division Brigade Battalion Task Force CHAPTER 3... DEFENSE How the Enemy Attacks Planning the Defense The Defensive Battle Corps Division Brigade Battalion Task Force CHAPTER 4... COMBAT SUPPORT Field Artillery Engineer Army Aviation Tactical Air Air Defense Military Police Chemical Communications CHAPTER 5... COMBAT SERVICE SUPPORT Support Organization Logistical Functions Noncombatants Civil Affairs Operations Refugee Control APPENDIX A... Urban Terrain Analysis APPENDIX B... Weapons Effects And Employment APPENDIX C... How To Select And Prepare Defensive Positions In Built-Up Areas APPENDIX D... Employment Of Obstacles And Mines In Built-Up Areas APPENDIX E... Demolitlons APPENDIX F... Armored Forces In Built-Up Area APPENDIX G... How To Attack And Clear Building APPENDIX H... References And International Agreements **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Mon Oct 19 18:21:31 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:21:31 +0800 Subject: IP: [FP] National ID back on table? Message-ID: <199810200056.RAA08063@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: [FP] National ID back on table? Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:52:36 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com Forwarded: --------------- From: "ScanThisNews" Subject: [FP] National ID back on table? Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 07:05:28 -0500 SCAN THIS NEWS MONDAY OCTOBER 19, 1998 National ID back on table? Weekend maneuvers in Congress may kill moratorium http://www.worldnetdaily.com/exclusiv/981019_national_id_back_o.shtml By David M. Bresnahan Copyright 1998, WorldNetDaily.com Last-minute deals on Capitol Hill may remove a previously negotiated moratorium on the national ID card, and one organization opposed to the card is not surprised or disappointed. The law was already passed by Congress in 1996 and a national ID for all Americans will soon be in use unless changes to the law are made soon. The omnibus appropriations bill contained a ban on the national ID, first exposed in WorldNetDaily, but over the weekend efforts were made to remove that ban. A great many bills were never voted on during the year. With elections just around the corner, politicians want to go home to their districts and brag about something they've done this past year. The omnibus bill contains thousands of pages, including many pet projects intended to win votes. The main purpose of the bill, negotiated last week and scheduled for a vote tomorrow, is to approve the budget and keep government in business. Prior to the negotiations last week, all sides were predicting a shut-down of government over disagreements in the budget. No one in Congress wants to explain to voters why government has come to a grinding halt just before an election, so the passage of the omnibus bill is assured, along with anything else attached to it. "There are so many deals that have been made and are still being made that no one will ever know exactly what's in that thing and what's not until long after the vote is over and the members all go home to campaign," explained a congressional aide who did not wish to be named. The moratorium was first included in the transportation appropriations bill, but Rep. Lamar Smith, R-TX, convinced Speaker Newt Gingrich, R-GA, to remove it before passage, according to House Transportation Committee sources. The ban on the national ID was then included the omnibus bill. However, Smith has continued to make efforts to kill the provision, according to a congressional source who has been working on the ban. "It's very hard to say just what will happen, but I do know that Smith has recruited help from some other members and the Speaker is considering their requests," said the source yesterday. It was Smith who got the national ID ban out of the transportation appropriations bill. "It was reported that Lamar Smith had obtained an agreement from Speaker Gingrich to eliminate this provision from the bill," reported Patrick Poole of the Free Congress Foundation. The ban was back in the bill "after many House members openly complained to the speaker about Lamar Smith's seemingly religious devotion to the national ID idea and the American people�s vehement opposition to being branded and tagged by the U.S. government," explained Poole. Numerous organizations opposed to the concept of a national ID rallied their members to send thousands of letters, faxes, and make phone calls to Congress for the past two weeks. Rep. Smith could not be reached on Sunday night by WorldNetDaily, but he did publish a letter in the Washington Times last Tuesday because of the many calls his office received. "I do not support a national ID card and don't know anyone in Congress who does," said Smith in his letter. He tried to label those voicing opposition as radicals when he added, "There are fringe groups that believe the United Nations is taking over Yellowstone National Park, that Congress is creating a national ID card or that they have been abducted by UFOs." The law to create a national ID card was passed as part of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996. One section of the act requires all states to make their driver's licenses comply with certain guidelines found in Section 656 (b) of the act, including the use of the Social Security Number on all licences and in all data bases beginning Oct. 1, 2000. The act also calls for digitized biometric information to be a part of each license, or "smart card." The biometric information will include fingerprints, retina scans, DNA prints, and other similar information. Responsibility for the design and implementation of the cards has been given to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration of the Department of Transportation. That agency has recently published the proposed "Driver's License/SSN/National Identification Document," which contains the guidelines which must be in force by each state -- a federal mandate once campaigned against by many conservative Republicans. "These new national ID regulations violate every notion of federalism, because they force states to comply with regulations issued by the federal government without any constitutional authority to do so," said Poole recently. "Nor are federal agencies empowered to force states to gather detailed information on every person in order to comply with federal mandates. The net result of the DOT's regulations is to establish a national ID system, which has been opposed by almost every non-governmental sector for the past five decades." House Majority Leader Dick Armey, R-TX, Rep. Ron Paul, R-TX, and Rep. Bob Barr, R-GA, have been working on repeal legislation, but there was insufficient time to bring it to a vote during this session of Congress. The DOT solicited public comments on their plans for implementation of Section 656 (b) of the act earlier this year. The public comment period has just closed and many thousands of letters in opposition were received, according to a spokesman. Five states also expressed opposition to the plan, and only a "small number" of letters supporting the plan were known to the spokesman, who spoke on condition that his name would not be published. One group that has worked diligently for the repeal of the national ID card was not surprised to learn of plans to remove the ban from the omnibus bill. "I won't be terribly disappointed if the one-year moratorium is removed from the appropriations bill. In fact, if left in, the moratorium may actually serve to provide an unwelcomed delay in this issue being addressed by Congress and the DOT," said Scott McDonald leader of "Fight the Fingerprint." McDonald says his group will use the situation to educate more people regardless of which way the bill ends up. He is concerned that national debate on the national ID will be delayed by the ban and would lessen the chances to get the law repealed. McDonald wants the debate to begin now. "Time is on the side of the proponents of the national ID. Opposition to any issue tends to wane as time passes. The American people have already firmly stated their strong opposition to the DOT's proposed standardized driver's license proposal. Now it's time for the DOT to act on behalf of the people they serve. The DOT should go back to Congress with a report stating that the American people do not want a national ID which the 1996 immigration law would establish via standardized driver's licenses," explained McDonald on Sunday. McDonald's group is opposed to the use of Social Security numbers from being used as past of driver's licences and in centralized government databases tied to driver's licenses and other government documents. His group is also opposed to the use of fingerprints on such records. In the event there is a moratorium on the implementation of the National ID, McDonald predicts there will be a good chance the DOT will design a compromise which will keep Social Security numbers off licences but keep the number on license applications and in universal data bases to keep track of individuals. Without a moratorium, a report must be provided by DOT detailing the responses they received from the public on the issue. McDonald wants Congress to see that report as soon as possible. "Without the temporary reprieve, the DOT is required by law to respond to all public comments which have been filed with the agency, and to publish their responses in the Federal Register," said McDonald. "I am anxious to see their responses. If the moratorium goes into effect, the DOT may be able to avoid this mandatory requirement. The American people deserve to be know what the DOT's official position is in response to the objections raised by those individuals and groups who took the time to object." ------------------------------------------------------------------------- You can call the capitol toll free at........1-800-378-1844 Lamar Smith..................................1-202-225-4236 Speaker Gingrich.............................1-202-225-0600 ======================================================================= Don't believe anything you read on the Net unless: 1) you can confirm it with another source, and/or 2) it is consistent with what you already know to be true. ======================================================================= Reply to: ======================================================================= To subscribe to the free Scan This News newsletter, send a message to and type "subscribe scan" in the BODY. Or, to be removed type "unsubscribe scan" in the message BODY. For additional instructions see www.efga.org/about/maillist.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "Scan This News" is Sponsored by S.C.A.N. Host of the "FIGHT THE FINGERPRINT!" web page: www.networkusa.org/fingerprint.shtml ======================================================================= **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Mon Oct 19 18:26:57 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:26:57 +0800 Subject: IP: Brave New World of Implants Message-ID: <199810200056.RAA08074@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Brave New World of Implants Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 10:42:06 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com Source: Jewish World Review / Oct. 19,1998 / 29 Tishrei, 5759 http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0798/mothernature.html Can we 'fool Mother Nature'? Do we want to? By David S. Oderberg IMAGINE THAT YOU have been fitted with a tiny electronic device, measuring nearly an inch long and a third of an inch wide. This device receives and emits radio waves in the presence of transceivers in 'intelligent' buildings fitted to recognize the unique signal emanating from the tiny 'smart' chip in your body. This chip, implanted just under the skin on your arm, has immense advantages. With it you can open and close doors, pass through security channels set up to recognize your identity, operate machines such as computers and faxes, and generally negotiate your technological world with greater ease and convenience than at present. You can even use your chip to carry out daily commerce. Swipe your arm over a scanner and you can make payments, have your account debited automatically, check you bank balance. In short, you can do everything which currently requires you to lug around a walletful of credit cards. One small catch, though: because of this chip, your whereabouts are known to others at every minute of every day. You can be tracked like a car or airplane. Orwellian nightmare? Delusional apocalyptic fantasy? One would have thought so, until it emerged in the British press a short while ago that Kevin Warwick, professor of cybernetics at the University of Reading -- my own university, as a matter of fact -- has decided to try out such a scenario on himself. Seeing himself as a latter day Edward Jenner -- the pioneering scientist who tried out the smallpox vaccine on his own body -- Prof. Warwick has entered the hallowed halls of self-experimentation by having just such a silicon chip injected under the skin near his elbow. He is, as far as anyone knows, the first person to do so. The results of his experiment are not yet known. He has to take antibiotics against the risk of infection, and is a little concerned his body will reject the alien device. Speaking of the doctor who agreed to implant the chip, Prof. Warwick says: "If it all goes wrong and my arm explodes, which I have been warned could happen, my wife will probably sue...". The good professor is, nevertheless, sanguine about the possible side effects. For he sees himself as a crusader at the cutting edge of cybertechnology. Already famous for his little machines -- looking a bit like cockroaches on wheels -- which, he glows, behave for all the world as though they have intelligence (something I and others doubted when we saw them in action), Prof. Warwick is thrusting forward in the attempt to fulfil the prophecy of his own recent best-seller, March of the Machines. "It is possible," he says, "for machines to become more intelligent than humans in the reasonably near future. Machines will then become the dominant life form on earth." Is this a tragedy? No, he adds blithely: "We are just an animal, not much better or worse than the other animals. We have our uses [sic], because we are different. We are slightly more intelligent than the other animals." The professor looks forward to the day when machines rule our lives. The fact that his microchip enables him to be traced is no great worry. His secretary finds it a boon: "It was often hard to find Prof. Warwick...but since the implant we always know where he is." And so would your employer if you were similarly implanted. You would be monitored every time you clocked in and out of work, or left the workplace. Prof. Warwick surmises the chip could carry all sorts of information, such as medical records, past convictions, financial data. "It is quite possible for an implant to replace an Access or Visa card. There is very little danger in losing an implant or having it stolen," he said. But it seems Prof. Warwick is alive to the dangers of the microchip implant: "I know all this smacks of Big Brother," he comments. Where the technology will ultimately go "I really don't know and would not like to envisage." By now, you may well be feeling a little spooked. This is not surprising. Nor should the experiment itself be such a shock. After all, on October 11th 1993, The Washington Times reported on the "high-tech national tattoo" made by Hughes Aircraft Company --- an implantable transponder which the company called "an ingenious, safe, inexpensive, foolproof and permanent method of ... identification using radio waves." In 1994, in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, it was reported that a local humane society offered pet owners, for $25, to inject their dogs or cats with a microchip, to prevent their being lost or stolen. A Dr. Carl Sanders, electronics engineer and inventor of the Intelligent Manned Interface biochip, told the Monetary Economic Review that satellites could be used to track people fitted with the IMI chip: "We used this with military personnel in the Iraq war where they were actually tracked using this particular type of device." Whether soldiers have actually 'volunteered' to be surgically implanted with the chip, as opposed to carrying it on their clothing, is not made clear by Dr. Sanders. But what we do know is that proponents of this technology envisage first using it on animals (now widespread, particularly dogs, cats and cattle), then prisoners (more effective than electronic ankle tags), then children (e.g., newborn babies, so as to prevent their being switched or lost) and elderly people suffering from Alzheimer's disease (to prevent their wandering and getting lost). After that, who knows? The potential for the chips to replace credit cards and cash is huge, and will tempt financial institutions in turn to tempt their customers to 'try out' the chip with no obligation to carry it permanently, and monetary rewards for those who persevere. Supporters of the injectible microchip say it is just the logical extension of a technology that already allows the heavy monitoring of people through pagers, cellular phones, 'smart' cards, and cars fitted with Global Positioning System transponders. On the other hand, could it not be said that the advent of the chip implant is the final outrage which demonstrates the inherent unacceptability of its technological ancestors? We are, it seems, fast approaching a world that even George Orwell was not able to envisage. Had the microchip implant been known in his day there can be no doubt it would have replaced the 'telescreen' in his dystopian novel 1984. The fact that the corporations and individuals promoting its use are not being bombarded daily with protests from millions of outraged citizens is itself cause for wonder. How, particularly in countries such as the USA and Britain in which civil liberties are so prized, is it possible for so much propaganda to reach the mass media with barely a hint of contrary opinion? Prof. Warwick has gained enormous publicity, and is flooded with calls from journalists wanting to know how his little experiment is going. Until, however, a sufficient number of citizens make known their implacable opposition to the totalitarian trend of a technology which threatens to reduce most humans to the status of cattle, the likes of Prof. Warwick will go about their evil work unperturbed. JWR contributor Dr. David S. Oderberg is Lecturer in Philosophy at the University of Reading, England, and a freelance journalist. �1998, David S. Oderberg ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vince at offshore.com.ai Mon Oct 19 19:37:19 1998 From: vince at offshore.com.ai (Vincent Cate) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 10:37:19 +0800 Subject: My citizenship renunciation made difficult Message-ID: My Barbados Embassy/Consulate contact Steve Steger (246) 228 4338 called me up and told me that the state department has not approved my renunciation - they say one of the forms the Barbados guys had me fill out is old. For those just tuning in, I renounced my citizenship to be free of US laws on cryptography. While I was at the Consulate they had me fill out a 1st set of forms, then said those were obsolete (a few years back) and after waiting around for hours they had me fill out a 2nd set of forms that they said was the current version. I filled out and signed everything they gave me. They then had an interview with several witnesses. They took my US passport and gave me copies of the 2nd version of all the forms with my signatures and theirs on them. Now Steve says that I am supposed to travel down to Barbados again using up my time and my money because of their error to do a 3rd version of their forms. Both the time and the money make this a hardship. They won't mail me this 3rd version of the forms and they won't pay for my trip (let alone time). It seems to me that since I told the New York times that I renounced my US citizenship, and they told the world, that it should be a done deal. Also, spending a day in the Consulate signing everything they gave me should be enough to do it. And why is a form saying basically "I renounce my citizenship" that worked awhile back not effective today? But most of all, the very idea that the US government has to give me permission to renounce my association with it seems totally wrong. The people in the US are supposed to be free, not slaves or subjects. Free means free to leave. Any advice? -- Vince ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Vincent Cate Offshore Information Services Vince at Offshore.com.ai http://www.offshore.com.ai/ Anguilla, BWI http://www.offshore.com.ai/vince ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ You have to take life as it happens, but you should try to make it happen the way you want to take it. - German Proverb From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Mon Oct 19 20:03:34 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 11:03:34 +0800 Subject: My citizenship renunciation made difficult (fwd) Message-ID: <199810200247.VAA08359@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 22:17:12 -0400 (AST) > From: Vincent Cate > Subject: My citizenship renunciation made difficult > But most of all, the very idea that the US government has to give me > permission to renounce my association with it seems totally wrong. The > people in the US are supposed to be free, not slaves or subjects. Free > means free to leave. > > Any advice? Sue. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From sysadmin at mfn.org Mon Oct 19 20:23:22 1998 From: sysadmin at mfn.org (Missouri FreeNet Administration) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 11:23:22 +0800 Subject: Dorkslayers.. Message-ID: <01BDFBA8.6C12F0A0@noc.mfn.org> We had a run-in with Dorkslayers last night too :( The first time we brought out our sendmail update, we left it in it's "Virgin state" for approximately 6 hours for monitoring. During that period we "failed" a "relay test", and were blacklisted. As an RBL subscriber, I was appalled at the difference in attitudes between vix and dorkslayers. It is obvious after just a momentary look at the web site that they are out to "have some fun" antagonizing others. The RBL will mail a notice. These slimebags don't even care if you have had an illegal relay: all they care about is finding an *excuse* to put you on their list. Why is a group "dedicated to saving the InterNet" giving it's biggest prominence (in terms of W3 space) to hate mail recieved from people that D/S has intentionally wronged? This group is actually *hurting* the cause significantly. I was furious enough that I almost left the anti-relay out just to piss them off. The problem is, *that's what they really want*. Getting off is easy, just configure your networks they way *THEY* want them configured: your clients/customers/employees can all go to hell as far as Dorkslayers is concerned. VERY POOR. Perhaps a torrent of mail asking *THEM* to clean up their act would be a "push in the right direction"? J.A. Terranson sysadmin at mfn.org (Who will not doubt be back on their list by tomorrow for daring to bad mouth the all-mighty "Dorkslayers") From wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org Mon Oct 19 20:32:26 1998 From: wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org (Rabid Wombat) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 11:32:26 +0800 Subject: "Microsoft is racist" In-Reply-To: <199810192111.OAA06317@smtp.well.com> Message-ID: Yeah, they're definately racist - they have a thing against left-handed nocturnal diseased marsupials. They haven't donated any money to me. OTOH, I haven't donated any money to Howard University. How about you? Have you donated money to Howard University? I'll bet you've donated more money to Micro$oft ... Which side are you on, anyway ... ?? Since you're local to the aforementioned institution, how about looking into whether Howard U have any merit to their claims? Does Micro$oft display racist hiring practices, or other discriminatory practices, other than failing to donate money to a particular institution? DisturbedKeyMonger On Mon, 19 Oct 1998, Declan McCullagh may have cut and pasted: > > > http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/15702.html > > On the sidewalk in front of the building, a > handful of protesters held up a sign > saying "Microsoft is racist." The group > attacked the company for not donating > money to Howard University, which is > predominately black. > > > From tzeruch at ceddec.com Mon Oct 19 21:31:15 1998 From: tzeruch at ceddec.com (tzeruch at ceddec.com) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 12:31:15 +0800 Subject: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... In-Reply-To: <199810061317.IAA07423@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <98Oct19.235259edt.42154@brickwall.ceddec.com> On Tue, 6 Oct 1998, Jim Choate wrote: > It occurs to me that there is another potential flaw in current economic > theory and business practice. > > Currently (ala Friedmann) the parties that reap the benefit of a succesful > business are the shareholders, this is currently seen to exclude the > employees in many cases/companies. > > This approach undervalues the business worth of the employees commitment to > the business. Not labor any more than capital. I think what you refer to is often called "stakeholders" which includes suppliers and customers in addition to employees. However you do not need to play games to justify proper treatment of employees. If you consider capital such as a machine, it is usually better to keep it well maintained and in good repair instead of letting it wear out and rust - the quality of your goods will suffer, profits will go down, and shareholders will dump management. The same applies for labor. If you treat employees badly, and they are in a free labor market, you will be left with those who will tolerate your abuse, or ignore it. These are likely to be as less productive as the rusty machine. And employees usually create mental capital. Except for the most menial tasks, they will know who to call and how to get some otherwise trivial things done much more efficiently than someone new. And they will be able to identify ways to make their niche more efficient for little extra cost (v.s. having a bunch of consultants go through to obtain the same information). Lose a long term employee and you have lost a lot of knowledge which you will pay dearly to replace. High turnover is bad for almost every business. Maltreatment is universally bad. Our current stock market bubble - which is in the process of popping - distorted this. My concept of Usury (yes, another mideval or earlier idea) is loaning in the abstract. You just want 5% or 10%, and try to find a piece of paper (or electronic book entry) that will return it regardless of what is behind the paper. This can include ponzi schemes if they aren't recognized as such. If people were really investing in the non-usurous sense, they would be concerned with the company as an organic whole, with the suppliers, and customers, and employees, and the physical plant and everything else, since the overall health would have a direct impact on the return on their investment - and this would typically give a dividend yield a few percent above something like a 10yr treasury. If I want milk, I will be very concerned with keeping the cow happy and healthy, and doing so rationally - pampering the cow too much won't give any more milk and maybe make the cow less healthy, but starving it or beating it would be worse. But now people own mutual funds, and probably don't know what positions they are in today. They simply assume it will go up 10% "over the long term" regardless if they invest in CocaCola, RJR Nabisco, Yahoo, or GE, so why bother checking what is behind the stock certificate - if they miss their earnings, the fund manager will simply swap it for something else not based on the company or employees, but just on a few abstract numbers reported each quarter. I like Yahoo and Amazon, but can't concieve of any logic to their market capitalization. They would have to grow at double digit rates to long past my retirement to return to a rational valuation (assuming the stock price didn't go up further). I haven't heard a reason connected with something tangible (dividends, book-value, cash flow) for someone to own such a stock. Only that "it the internet". And I think this decoupling is at the center of what you are getting at. Paper v.s. people, and when it comes time to decide, the paper wins. There is a lot of ignorance, and it is rational in the short term - these stocks are going up, so it would otherwise make sense to follow the trend. But if the trend is all that is being watched, who is going to care if they are using slave-labor? - to mention just one issue. But that is investing in a bubble. The same thing happened in 1720 with the South Seas company in Great Britian and the Mississippi Scheme in France. The paper was appreciating daily, and that is all that mattered. Until the paper became illiquid. Then it mattered very much if the businesses were intrinsically sound and healthy and correctly valued. And I think we will see the same thing here and across the globe shortly. Japan started to see this in the early '90s. From tzeruch at ceddec.com Mon Oct 19 21:42:50 1998 From: tzeruch at ceddec.com (tzeruch at ceddec.com) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 12:42:50 +0800 Subject: Another question about free-markets... (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810051237.HAA03149@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <98Oct19.235259edt.42143@brickwall.ceddec.com> On Mon, 5 Oct 1998, Jim Choate wrote: > > > If this includes lying, denying consumers information, etc. > > > what harm is done, they have fulfilled their responsibility > > > to their shareholders (potentialy quite lucratively)=20 > > > > While there is a sucker born every minute, the strategy you > > describe is for the most part unlikely to be profitable. > > Then you should begin to check your daily news, example after example is > presented. (currently illegal) cell phone cloning, excessive rate levels, > sub-standard construction practices, etc. Most of these are due to regulation. If you assume the Secret Service will bear the cost of enforcing anti-cloning laws, you will not spend the money to make your phones unclonable even if the technology exists. Excessive rate levels are a misnomer. The only way you can succeed in charging above market prices is if there is a law to bar entry. sub-standard construction is also a misnomer - if you paid for standard X, you simply don't pay until the construction is up to that standard. If you are talking about government projects, you introduce some distortion, e.g. where they demand to pay below-market prices. Further, if you don't want to pay for certification of the quality, you can't call it "substandard" because you aren't paying to have a standard enforced. > Not only can it happen it deos. Given that such abuse is possible in a > regulated market there is no reason not to deduce it will happen in a free > market economy as well. If it happens the business enjoys an increased profit > if for no other reason than their costs are reduced. Since there is no > regulation or other oversight the consumer will be denied this information > preventing fair competition. Since a companies strategic leaders have no > duty other than maximizing profit they will impliment such strategies. Hence > the free-market reduces to an opportunistic anarchy. Hardly. If you are saying consumers are stupid, you are probably right, and their ignorance may be rational, since it would be expensive to certify everything you encounter in one day. But it does not mean that business would enjoy any increased profit. Consumers would simply bid down the price where companies would compete on who could supply substandard dreck most efficiently. Nor would they really be denied information. Some people subscribe to consumer reports, some don't. If you buy a noname blackbox, it is your choice. If you buy something that is rated as being good you may pay more, but would get extra value (and consumer reports makes money by coming as close as possible to unbiased testing in the main). And you assume that men are islands and don't talk or communicate. Imagine two restaraunts. If people get food poisoning every week or so at one, people will learn not to go there, and it will fold as people go to the second. Reputation (economists include it in the term "good will") does have an economic benefit. And it does not require government to regulate. If fact government is usually the worst in determining quality - the USDA uses sniffing and appearance instead of microbiology for a very long time (until an e. coli outbreak). But they certify all infected meat as grade-A if the inspector is in a good mood. And good meat will lose points if the inspector is in a bad mood. But because of the USDA, no private concern can compete to certify healthy food (and one reason I have cut meat consumption - what the government allows or is incapable of catching can kill me in very unpleasant ways). Consumers will only be denied infomation pertaining to quality if they insist on not paying for it. And "free" information from the government in the form of certification or regulation is worth what you pay for it. Underwriters lab certified things for insurance companies. A similar organization could insure healthy food (by publishing their standards and charging for either inspection or results). > This leads to one and only one conclusion, in a free-market there is no such > thing as 'fair trade' without a third party being involved. This runs > contrary to the definition of a free market on two counts (at least) and > therefore the free market theory (as applied to human business, not Vulcan) > is a circular argument based on faulty principles and a lack of > understanding of human psychology (ie assumptions such as rational > purchases). You simply may not like human psychology, but that does not make the free market any less just. In fact, most "problems" like insurance derive from human psychology. People want to beleive lies. Or want to remain ignorant. And don't want to take responsibility for their own actions. The market is completely fair and just - which are also virtues. It is not merciful or kind, but that is NOT its function. I can buy (or sell) at a given price, or I can choose not to. The offered price may not be a good value, but I will need to invest additional time and money to determine that, and that is a secondary choice, but it is still fair. If a stock is selling at $50 on the NYSE, nothing stops you from buying it from me at $250. This would be unwise but not unfair. Nor would it require any third party. If you know I take advantage of ignorance, you will not deal with me without informing yourself first. You may rationally decide not to check if I sell near market prices if it is typical that most people do. But you will acquire the information of my business practice with the purchase. You may also rationally get a second bid. No one witholds information. But no one forces information upon you. You have only to act rationally at whatever level you decide. In my earlier post, I mentioned that I think stocks are in a bubble - i.e. overvalued by 70%. Which if any government agency is saying this? Are these fair prices? You think so if you bought in when they were only overvalued by 50%. But how does the government prevent people from bidding up the price of stocks, or beanie babies? I think they are called crazes or manias for good reason. When it collapses they will call on the government, but all the information will have been there in black and white all along. But they would rather belive in a pleasant illusion than cold reality. And you can't make any regulation that will change that. Illusions also have prices. And people will gladly pay them. This is unwise (A fool and his money are soon parted), but not unfair (wisdom has riches in her left hand and long life in her right). The market enforces a foolishness tax which no government can repeal. From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Mon Oct 19 22:07:41 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 13:07:41 +0800 Subject: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd) Message-ID: <199810200440.XAA08804@einstein.ssz.com> Hi, I've a point unrelated to this topic. I recieved two copies of your email. One was 101 lines and the other was 108 lines, the difference being 7 blank lines. Pretty curious, no? Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 15:15:13 -0400 > From: tzeruch at ceddec.com > Subject: Re: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... > Not labor any more than capital. I think what you refer to is often > called "stakeholders" which includes suppliers and customers in addition > to employees. Well suppliers are a business unto themselves so I'm not sure I can extend my point that far. I certainly wouldn't include customers as this confuses the entire issue of the point of business (ie making a profit). If we extend the issue to include customers then we're looking at reducing our profit margin to zero as we discount our services to the customer over time. There is also the aspect that with this model we end up selling our service to ourselves, an inherently loosing proposition since there is no profit to be made at all in that case. > However you do not need to play games to justify proper treatment of > employees. I didn't mean to imply any sort of mistreatment, though I did raise that spectre in related postings. Sorry for the confusion. The point I was trying to make was that business has a third, and untried near as I can tell, strategy in approaching their business process. Include the employees in the plan with the specific goal of making them rich enough and invested enough so they don't have to work and do it in a short time span - say 10 years. I've read a few pieces (I must admit to viewing them as pie-in-the-sky) which predict that what will happen with technology is that people will begin to invest in automated processes and over time as these become ubiquitous people don't work, they live off their profit from the investment in these automated factories. One aspect, which I alluded to above, is that at some point the investors are also their own customers so that the profit they make to buy the materials is in a closed loop. This seems to me to invite a level of inflation (in order to preserve at least the ghost of a profit) that would explode pretty quickly. > If you consider capital such as a machine, it is usually > better to keep it well maintained and in good repair instead of letting it > wear out and rust - the quality of your goods will suffer, profits will go > down, and shareholders will dump management. True enough, though the machines don't retire (they do wear out). If we look at it from a strictly cost analysis perspective I'd agree with you (as I understand your point) fully. The question I have is what if we abandon the Friedman view and take on a more humanistic view. In short, business represent a participant in a social process. As a result they have more duties than just making profit for their shareholders (or stakeholders). [text deleted] > Our current stock market bubble - which is in the process of popping - > distorted this. I agree in part, I believe that the reason we're seeing the failure of the traditional economic systems is that in large scales with extremely fluid capital (intellectual, physical, monetary, etc.) it becomes very difficult to keep long term participants when there are so many more lucrative short-term potentials. I personaly feel the collapse of the CCCP in the early 90's is a good indication of this 'delayed responce' syndrome. I also believe the current problem with funding the government is another example where the gains are such that the traditional political and social views don't apply well enough so that the errors cancel each other out. Instead they pile on top of each other over time. My guess is that the current political system will collapse of its own ineptitude and lethargy as well as a wedding to outmoded ideas sometime in the next 20 years or so. What comes after, I believe at this point, will be a polycratic technocracy based on distributed democratic ideals. > My concept of Usury (yes, another mideval or earlier > idea) is loaning in the abstract. You just want 5% or 10%, and try to > find a piece of paper (or electronic book entry) that will return it > regardless of what is behind the paper. This can include ponzi schemes if > they aren't recognized as such. Oops, what's a 'ponzi scheme'? I can't find it in any of my texts.... > If people were really investing in the non-usurous sense, they would be > concerned with the company as an organic whole, with the suppliers, and > customers, and employees, and the physical plant and everything else, I understand the conept of 'organic whole'. I have to disagree at extending it to include the customers and suppliers for the reasons listed above. In a very real sense the term you use is more apt than anything I've come up with so far as a label. > If I want milk, I will be very concerned with keeping the cow happy and > healthy, and doing so rationally - pampering the cow too much won't give > any more milk and maybe make the cow less healthy, but starving it or > beating it would be worse. I agree, the interesting question - I hope without stretching the comparison too far - is what happens when the farmer figures out how to make the milk using a bacteria (for example) via genetic manipulation? (this is meant as an example of technical invasion of a traditional market) Does the farmer continue to feed the cow on principle (it being a fellow living creature and mankind having destroyed its natural habitats and hence we can't turn it loose) or simply kill the beast and sell the remains to the golden arches? > price didn't go up further). I haven't heard a reason connected with > something tangible (dividends, book-value, cash flow) for someone to own > such a stock. Only that "it the internet". And I think this decoupling > is at the center of what you are getting at. Paper v.s. people, and when > it comes time to decide, the paper wins. That is most definitely a major aspect of the problem. People get so dazzled by the visions of fruit plums dancing before their eyes they don't notice the snow has melted. > There is a lot of ignorance, and it is rational in the short term - these > stocks are going up, so it would otherwise make sense to follow the trend. > But if the trend is all that is being watched, who is going to care if > they are using slave-labor? - to mention just one issue. I'm afraid I don't quite catch your point here. Could you reword it? > But that is investing in a bubble. Exactly why I don't want to see an integrated world economy. It's doomed to fail from the get go. > The same thing happened in 1720 with > the South Seas company in Great Britian and the Mississippi Scheme in > France. I'll look into these as I'm not familiar with the particular. Thanks for the lead. > And I think we will see the same thing here and across the globe shortly. > Japan started to see this in the early '90s. Agreed. What I find really funny (in a macabre sort of sense I admit) is that the folks who are hording gold and other supposed universal valuables are in for a big surprise at what comes out of the other end. This is going to be a economic/political Industrial Revolution the likes of which haven't been seen since mankind invented the little clay balls for sealing contracts for selling sheep and such. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Mon Oct 19 22:13:23 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 13:13:23 +0800 Subject: Cell phone cloning and economics... Message-ID: <199810200501.AAA08929@einstein.ssz.com> Hi, Another point in regards the market behaviour regarding cell phones.... In a free-market there is no reason to believe that phone cloning would be reduced as it would still provide a distinct economic advantage over those who sell 1st line equipment. The only thing that keeps the 1st line companies in business is the regulation, without it they can't afford to do the basic research or infrastrucure construction since they can't sell enough phones in the first place because the clones have bought up their share. So without some sort of 3rd party regulation there is nothing inherent in a free-market that protects that initial intellectual and econimic investment so that it can grow and produce a market and a profit. Now it is clear that this regulation is *NOT* primarily the government but rather the social institution or society the governemt or regulatory body exists within. Remember, the profit goes to the one who occassionaly breaks the social taboo's. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Mon Oct 19 22:19:46 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 13:19:46 +0800 Subject: Another question about free-markets... (fwd) Message-ID: <199810200457.XAA08867@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 15:53:45 -0400 > From: tzeruch at ceddec.com > Subject: Re: Another question about free-markets... (fwd) > Most of these are due to regulation. No, they are due to a basic human trait - greed. The problem isn't a economic one it's a people one. If you assume the Secret Service > will bear the cost of enforcing anti-cloning laws, you will not spend the > money to make your phones unclonable even if the technology exists. Assuming of course you trust the Secret Service fully and they happen to be honest to a fault. > Excessive rate levels are a misnomer. The only way you can succeed in > charging above market prices is if there is a law to bar entry. But that is the exact point in regards cell cloning for example. The final cost to the purchaser of the clone is *less* than the normal market price. In a free-market economy the obviously rational thing to do is clone, the really bad thing is there is nobody short of Guido and his buds to help the original maker recover those costs or prevent recurrences. > sub-standard construction is also a misnomer - if you paid for standard X, > you simply don't pay until the construction is up to that standard. You've got a circular reasoning here. If we're still talking about a free market there is no 3rd party to define standards and such to measure against. There won't even be groups that will be able to review the various products and compare them in an open market (review the current database licenses in regards to doing public comparisons). > Hardly. If you are saying consumers are stupid, you are probably right, No, I'm saying there is a considerable sector of the human population that is dishonest. This won't change based on economic models. > And you assume that men are islands and don't talk or communicate. Actualy I don't. My point is that such assumptions about instant communications (as required by current economic models) is irrelevant. I covered that aspect at one point. The fact that people communicate won't change their base bahaviour characteristics one whit, those are a function of long-term species survival strategies. People are social animals, the maximum strategy in social animals is the Prisoners Delima, you play along most of the time and cheat occassionaly. Over time this strategy will accumulate more resources than either a pure cheating or honest strategy. It's this transient aspect that is completely ignored by current economic though, they recognize only the two extremes. > Imagine two restaraunts. If people get food poisoning every week or so at > one, people will learn not to go there, and it will fold as people go to > the second. This example really doesn't fit my theory since it isn't possible for a single (or even two) restaraunts to saturate a market. I suspect that food, is entirely too tied to the vagaries of transient taste to behave this way. What is more likely to happen is that as people go back and forth between the two restaraunts from day to day (assume that one of them is dealing bad food) both will go down. Remember there isn't a health inspector or somebody to come and test the food, only the experiential evidence of the eaters. Now since it takes as much as 24+ hours for symptoms to develop it is entirely possible for a person to eat at one restaraunt on Monday at luch and get food poisoning and it not show up until the next afternoon, *after* they've already eaten at the second restaraunt. At that point the person is sick and isn't going to want to go back to either. Better safe than sorry. > Reputation (economists include it in the term "good will") > does have an economic benefit. Only in certain kinds of markets. I don't believe free markets are one of them. > You simply may not like human psychology, but that does not make the free > market any less just. I'm not sure how to respond to this. Let me put it to you this way... How do you propose a free market to operate if there aren't people (and as a conequence their psychology) involved? > The market enforces a foolishness tax which no government can repeal. Again, only in certain situations - a free-market is not one of them. You might want to look at some of the recent studies done (I was looking at an article the other day at the bookstore but can't remember the article - sorry) that demonstrate pretty conclusively that mediocre strategies pay off over time nearly as well as optimal ones do. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Mon Oct 19 22:32:46 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 13:32:46 +0800 Subject: Human psychology & free-markets: a fundamental question Message-ID: <199810200509.AAA09007@einstein.ssz.com> Why do people behave more ethicaly (or fairly) in a free-market than in a regulated market? It's clear the pay-off for defection is more in a free-market because the actual opportunities come more often. The market regulation simply makes it more costly to defect, and hence reducing the final profit motive, because it takes more resources to bypass the regulation hence increasing the price of defection and increasing the period between defections because it takes more time to collect and manage the resources to defect. I would contend that the economic problems we experience are not because the market is regulated (or not) but that the regulation is not *impartial* to the outcome. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From blancw at cnw.com Mon Oct 19 23:12:43 1998 From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 14:12:43 +0800 Subject: My citizenship renunciation made difficult In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000701bdfbec$a511c220$588195cf@blanc> >From Vince Cate: : But most of all, the very idea that the US government has to give me : permission to renounce my association with it seems totally : wrong. The people in the US are supposed to be free, not slaves or : subjects. Free means free to leave. ....................................................... That was a long time ago, Vince. People don't think that way any more. Government clerks have taken over the world. No one is their own person any more; we belong to the National Identity. But anything which goes wrong is totally your fault. You should have known those forms were obsolete. Do they have to tell you everything? (do they have to tell you *anything*?) I would advise them that if they want more information from you, to come and get it. I would advise them to copy the information from the old form. I would advise them to call you on the phone and inquire over any missing information to satisfy their need for it. I would advise your new leaders in Mozambique to harrass the US clerks and threaten them with something. I would advise the New York Times about this bit of inanity. I would ask the clerks what they're going to do about it if you don't fill out a new form (take a boat trip over and dock you?) I would ask the Mozambique govmt whether they care, and if they would cooperate with the US if it staked a claim on your body (and your tax contributions). I would post this somewhere on the internet where many people would read it and talk about it, not only to let them know how things work, but also to alert cyberspace about yet another flaw in government operations and in the US legal atmosphere. All very useful ideas. : | .. Blanc From mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de Tue Oct 20 01:01:03 1998 From: mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de (Mok-Kong Shen) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 16:01:03 +0800 Subject: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... In-Reply-To: <98Oct19.235259edt.42154@brickwall.ceddec.com> Message-ID: <362C472E.60F73A1F@stud.uni-muenchen.de> tzeruch at ceddec.com wrote: > > On Tue, 6 Oct 1998, Jim Choate wrote: > > > It occurs to me that there is another potential flaw in current economic > > theory and business practice. I see there are lots of interesting discussions on economy recently on this list. But I miss stuffs relating to the currently existing crisis of the financial market, topics like causes of failure of LTCM etc. etc. M. K. Shen From jcypherpunk at hotmail.com Tue Oct 20 01:21:16 1998 From: jcypherpunk at hotmail.com (John Cypherpunk) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 16:21:16 +0800 Subject: My citizenship renunciation made difficult Message-ID: <19981020075442.8827.qmail@hotmail.com> >From Vince Cate: : But most of all, the very idea that the US government has to give me : permission to renounce my association with it seems totally : wrong. The people in the US are supposed to be free, not slaves or : subjects. Free means free to leave. ........................................................ Did you use the right forms to establish your citizenship? Suggest the nice embassy people attend your offices to prove you are a US citizen. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From Theodor.SCHLICKMANN at BXL.DG13.cec.be Tue Oct 20 01:21:19 1998 From: Theodor.SCHLICKMANN at BXL.DG13.cec.be (Theodor.SCHLICKMANN at BXL.DG13.cec.be) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 16:21:19 +0800 Subject: EU Privacy Directive In-Reply-To: <19981019195132.27759.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> Message-ID: Those who are affected in the first place are US companies who are used to collect and process personal data from their customers without any embarrassment. They will be excluded from the European market, if they do not follow European Data Protection rules. Until now the US goverment has decided to leave this matter to self regulation. However, US industry did not manage to come up with an appropriate codex. If industry does not comply until the end of the year, FTC promised that they will introduce a bill at congress which will comply with European data protection standards. On the other hand, the US did not even manage to adopt the Guidelines on the Protection of Privacy and Transborder Flow of Personal Data by OECD. The discrepancy in the US system is exposed by the fact that general laws for data protection and privacy were avoided in favour of specific laws for single areas or techniques. Other countries, in particular those in Eastern and Central Europe have, in spite of massive lobbying by D. Aaron, adopted laws on data protection and privacy since they do not want endanger their future participation in the EU. T. Schlickmann From Theodor.SCHLICKMANN at BXL.DG13.cec.be Tue Oct 20 01:49:43 1998 From: Theodor.SCHLICKMANN at BXL.DG13.cec.be (Theodor.SCHLICKMANN at BXL.DG13.cec.be) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 16:49:43 +0800 Subject: An Appraisal of the Technologies of Political Control Message-ID: http://www.europarl.eu.int/dg4/stoa/en/publi/166499/execsum.htm From tcmay at got.net Tue Oct 20 02:22:54 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 17:22:54 +0800 Subject: "We have to destroy privacy in order to protect privacy" In-Reply-To: <19981019195132.27759.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> Message-ID: At 12:39 AM -0700 10/20/98, Theodor.SCHLICKMANN at BXL.DG13.cec.be wrote: >Those who are affected in the first place are US companies who >are used to collect and process personal data from their customers >without any embarrassment. They will be excluded from >the European market, if they do not follow European Data >Protection rules. Sounds good to me...a trade war with the Communist Confederation of Europe. >Until now the US goverment has decided to leave this matter >to self regulation. However, US industry did not manage to >come up with an appropriate codex. Because in these United States we have certain constitutional rights. Some of those rights include the First and the Fourth Amendments. Taken together with other rights, the conclusion is this: The government cannot insist on the form of data stored in data bases. (There have been unconstitutional, in the opinion of many, encroachments on this right, and especially of what businesses and others may do with data. Releasing or selling video rental records, for example.) To be more concrete, if I compile lists of who is writing articles on Usenet, I have no obligation to either purge these records or show them to others or not sell them or _anything_. The government cannot get at my records except under limited situations. Europe's "data privacy laws," which I have been critical of for more than ten years now, are an abomination. While the laws sound well-intentioned, they effectively give the state the power to sift through filing cabinets and disk drives looking for violations. And the laws create much mischief. A node for the Cypherpunks distributed list probably could not legally be run in many European states (maybe none of the EEC states now that they are conforming to the same laws). Why not? Check the provisions on compiling lists and the need for permission from the compilee, and the need to register the lists with various bureaucrats. (This example came up several years ago in connection with the U.K.'s data privacy laws. As the law read, lists of e-mail addresses fell under the reporting requirements, as did data bases of customers, vendors, and other such stuff a company might collect.) Of course, like all bad laws, these laws are only enforced at the convenience of the state. While Germany may not hassle the Cypherpunks list operators in Berlin, they may very well use the data privacy laws to force the Church of Scientology to open up their lists of members, to register the lists, to purge the lists, etc. And France will probably use the laws to harass Greenpeace. Bad laws. Bad to invade file cabinets. >If industry >does not comply until the end of the year, FTC promised that >they will introduce a bill at congress which will comply with >European data protection standards. On the other hand, the US did >not even manage to adopt the Guidelines on the Protection >of Privacy and Transborder Flow of Personal Data by OECD. Because fucking OECD deals don't take precedence over our Constitution. >Other countries, in particular those in Eastern and Central >Europe have, in spite of massive lobbying by D. Aaron, adopted >laws on data protection and privacy since they do not want >endanger their future participation in the EU. These laws on "data protection and privacy" are in many ways laws _against_ privacy. After all, if data are actually private, the authorties won't see any violations. "We have to destroy privacy in order to protect privacy." Let the war with the statists in Europe commence. --Tim May Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From jya at pipeline.com Tue Oct 20 03:49:52 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 18:49:52 +0800 Subject: An Appraisal of the Technologies of Political Control In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199810201019.GAA04985@dewdrop2.mindspring.com> Theodor Schlickmann offered: >http://www.europarl.eu.int/dg4/stoa/en/publi/166499/execsum.htm This is a shortened version of an ATPC update over twice as long. The full report was offered for a while by the Dutch newspaper NRC Handelsblad but has since been replaced by the shorter version. Why only the short version is being offered is not clear -- it addresses only the surveillance part of the full report, ECHELON and the FBI/EU wiretapping deal. The report is controversial within EuroParl and the European Commission and there may have been a political decision to focus on its most contentious aspects. Other sections update the full range of technologies for political control of the original report published in January 1998. (Note that EuroParl has still not made the orginal report available online.) The NRC Handelsblad reporter who got the full report from the author, the Omega Foundation, sent us a copy available at: http://jya.com/stoa-atpc-so.htm (101K) From Theodor.SCHLICKMANN at BXL.DG13.cec.be Tue Oct 20 04:34:39 1998 From: Theodor.SCHLICKMANN at BXL.DG13.cec.be (Theodor.SCHLICKMANN at BXL.DG13.cec.be) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 19:34:39 +0800 Subject: Re(2): An Appraisal of the Technologies of Political Control In-Reply-To: <199810201019.GAA04985@dewdrop2.mindspring.com> Message-ID: For full report please contact rholdsworth at europarl.eu.int From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Tue Oct 20 05:42:58 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 20:42:58 +0800 Subject: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd) Message-ID: <199810201221.HAA09849@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:17:50 +0100 > From: Mok-Kong Shen > Subject: Re: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... > I see there are lots of interesting discussions on economy recently > on this list. But I miss stuffs relating to the currently existing > crisis of the financial market, topics like causes of failure of > LTCM etc. etc. All I've been discussing is a handful of thought on free-market economies and human psychology. Haven't really touched the actual market issues directly. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody at replay.com Tue Oct 20 06:26:21 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 21:26:21 +0800 Subject: Happy Birthday to Convicted Child Molester Gary Burnore In-Reply-To: <199810140550.HAA15476@replay.com> Message-ID: <199810201238.OAA24270@replay.com> Hackman wrote: > James howard wrote: > > > > Did anyone remember to wish convicted child molester Gary Lee > > > Burnore a happy 41st birthday on Tuesday? I was just doing a net > > > search and came across this excerpt taken from his info on the North > > > Carolina registered sex offenders' website: > > > > > > > Street: 4201 BLAND ROAD APT J > > > > City: RALEIGH State: NC Zip: 27609 County: WAKE > > > > > > > > Race: W Sex: M Height: 5'08" Weight: 170 LBS. Hair: BRO Eyes: BLU > > > > Birth Date(s): 10-13-1957 > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > > Why is it "Birth Date(s)"? Is it possible to have more than one? > > multiple alias ? Since "Megan's law" where an effort has been made to warn residents of a convicted child molester living in their neighborhood, I can well imagine that many of them have resorted to using aliases. Another possibility is that since so many of them have multiple convictions on their rap sheets, and since the data entry operators cannot always read an officer's handwriting, multiple *POSSIBLE* birthdates for the same perp sometimes float around in the system. From adam at homeport.org Tue Oct 20 06:57:42 1998 From: adam at homeport.org (Adam Shostack) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 21:57:42 +0800 Subject: My citizenship renunciation made difficult In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <19981020091947.A29973@weathership.homeport.org> I believe that the UN Universal Declaration of Human rights includes the right to emmigrate without undue hardship. I would suggest contacting Amnesty International to complain about this harrassment by the US government. Article 13, section 2, article 15, section 2. http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html On Mon, Oct 19, 1998 at 10:17:12PM -0400, Vincent Cate wrote: | | My Barbados Embassy/Consulate contact Steve Steger (246) 228 4338 called | me up and told me that the state department has not approved my | renunciation - they say one of the forms the Barbados guys had me fill out | is old. | | For those just tuning in, I renounced my citizenship to be free of US laws | on cryptography. | | While I was at the Consulate they had me fill out a 1st set of forms, then | said those were obsolete (a few years back) and after waiting around for | hours they had me fill out a 2nd set of forms that they said was the | current version. I filled out and signed everything they gave me. They | then had an interview with several witnesses. They took my US passport | and gave me copies of the 2nd version of all the forms with my signatures | and theirs on them. | | Now Steve says that I am supposed to travel down to Barbados again using | up my time and my money because of their error to do a 3rd version of | their forms. Both the time and the money make this a hardship. They won't | mail me this 3rd version of the forms and they won't pay for my trip (let | alone time). | | It seems to me that since I told the New York times that I renounced my US | citizenship, and they told the world, that it should be a done deal. Also, | spending a day in the Consulate signing everything they gave me should be | enough to do it. And why is a form saying basically "I renounce my | citizenship" that worked awhile back not effective today? | | But most of all, the very idea that the US government has to give me | permission to renounce my association with it seems totally wrong. The | people in the US are supposed to be free, not slaves or subjects. Free | means free to leave. | | Any advice? | | -- Vince | | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | Vincent Cate Offshore Information Services | Vince at Offshore.com.ai http://www.offshore.com.ai/ | Anguilla, BWI http://www.offshore.com.ai/vince | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | | You have to take life as it happens, but you should try to make it | happen the way you want to take it. - German Proverb | | -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume From pop7 at angelfire.com Tue Oct 20 22:21:20 1998 From: pop7 at angelfire.com (pop7 at angelfire.com) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 22:21:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: CREDIT CARD PROCESSING Message-ID: *************************************************************** To be REMOVED from further mailings please respond with the word "remove" to the address listed below. 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Before you spend any money on a credit card program LOOK at this new program! If you have an interest in learning more about a Merchant Account for yourself or your business please email your Name, PHONE NUMBER (Don't forget your area code) and best time to call to: mailto:cardacct1 at freeaccount.com A representative will return your call within 24hrs. Or feel free to call us on our 24 hour voicemail at: 1-800-600-0343 Ext:2104 P.S. ALSO AS PART OF A SPECIAL NATIONAL PROMOTION, IF YOU ACT NOW YOU WILL RECEIVE A FREE ONLINE STORE WITH SECURE ORDERING CAPABILITIES TO SELL YOUR PRODUCTS ONLINE! World Teknologies Inc. 7210 Jordan Ave. Ca. 91303 From bbt at mudspring.uplb.edu.ph Tue Oct 20 07:27:00 1998 From: bbt at mudspring.uplb.edu.ph (Bernardo B. Terrado) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 22:27:00 +0800 Subject: desperate.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Could you give any info about wireless transmission especifically satellite transmission. Thank you and I desperately need your help. From bbt at mudspring.uplb.edu.ph Tue Oct 20 07:28:43 1998 From: bbt at mudspring.uplb.edu.ph (Bernardo B. Terrado) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 22:28:43 +0800 Subject: criticize.... Message-ID: I am creating a program about sparse matrix I am going to use different compression schemes used in building compilers. It is suppose to output a library wherein it support the compression scheme. It would either be used by C, Pascal, or FORTRAN whatever the user intends to use. Could you degrade or "upgrade" my said proposal (just say anything except nonsense of course). Thank you very much. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Some people they might say that I'm hard to get to know. I go my own sweet way, well that maybe so. Something about the crowd that makes me walk alone. I never had a need in me to be the party's life and soul. It's me Bernie. metaphone at altavista.net `````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` From bbt at mudspring.uplb.edu.ph Tue Oct 20 07:52:53 1998 From: bbt at mudspring.uplb.edu.ph (Bernardo B. Terrado) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 22:52:53 +0800 Subject: desperate.... Message-ID: Could you give any info about wireless transmission especifically satellite transmission. Thank you and I desperately need your help. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Some people they might say that I'm hard to get to know. I go my own sweet way, well that maybe so. Something about the crowd that makes me walk alone. I never had a need in me to be the party's life and soul. It's me Bernie. metaphone at altavista.net `````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` From bbt at mudspring.uplb.edu.ph Tue Oct 20 08:29:20 1998 From: bbt at mudspring.uplb.edu.ph (Bernardo B. Terrado) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 23:29:20 +0800 Subject: could you help..... Message-ID: I found this example in a book It's about Homophonic substitution and I can't figure how they did it , I mean how the other letters where substituted Here's the example Suppose the alphabet is mapped into the numbers 1 to 99 then map E to 17,19,23,47,64 map A to 8,20,25,49 map R to 1,29,65 map T to 16,31,85 but otherwise the ith letter maps to the 3ith letter Then the cleartext MANY A SLIP TWIXT THE CUP AND THE LIP will become 08 20 16 3185 17 25 16 47 3608397220543324451666246931852117066045253909162147332445 My question is what/how did they represent the other letters like L (etc.) coz I've tried to map them and yet I still can't understand I even wrote A to Z then map them to 1 to 99, I still can't figure it out. Could you also give me an example for polygram substitution. Thank you very much. SALAMAT PO. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Some people they might say that I'm hard to get to know. I go my own sweet way, well that maybe so. Something about the crowd that makes me walk alone. I never had a need in me to be the party's life and soul. It's me Bernie. metaphone at altavista.net `````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` From rah at shipwright.com Tue Oct 20 08:58:40 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 23:58:40 +0800 Subject: Dust off your anonymous voting protocols... Message-ID: Now all we need is a modern-day Robbespierre? I love the smell of mob rule in the morning? Nawwwwww... Cheers, Bob Hettinga --- begin forwarded text X-Sender: massmail at css Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 10:46:02 -0600 To: rah at shipwright.com From: cwheeler at activmedia.com Subject: Will 'Net Ballots Supplant Congress? WILL DIRECT DEMOCRACY PRE-EMPT SOME OF CONGRESS'S POWER? Questions Remain about Implementation ActivMedia Research (http://www.activmedia.com) - Two of three Internet afficionados think online elections are a good idea (66% to 33%). The same proportion would like to be able to vote on ballot referenda and exercise direct democracy via the 'Net (67%). "Obviously, the technical ability to move toward direct democracy must be accompanied by debate about its merits and what is an appropriate level of technocratic and professional decision-making on our behalf," notes ActivMedia's Director of Information Services Chris Anne Wheeler. "Some laws are best implemented by professionals for the public good such as environmental protection, national defense, and public welfare. But virtually all online consumers polled in ActivMedia's FutureScapes agree that a sunshine policy making legislative bills, voting records, and budgets available online for public inspection would be a good idea (97%)." ------------------------------------------------------------- CIVIC RESPONSIBILITIES ONLINE (Good Idea) Total Sample 4+ Yrs Online ------------ ------------- Vote for elected officials 66% 71% Vote on ballot referenda 67% 72% Search bills, voting records, budgets 97% 98% -------------------------------------------------------------- Source: FutureScapes Study, ActivMedia Research, � 1998 Survey respondents with 4+ years of online experience the greatest propensity to want to vote online. As expected, younger (under 15) as well as older (over 65) 'Netizens show a somewhat higher resistance to carrying out civic responsibilities online. The conservatives in the Northeast show a slightly greater resistance especially when it comes to voting for elected officials (63%), but essentially the desire to vote online is favored by the majority no matter their demographic background. All across the country, websites are cropping up that help voters weed through the oftentimes overwhelming amount of information on candidates and issues. The greatest challenge for voters is tracking down objective nonpartisan sources of candidate information. Trials of online voting are scarce as policy-makers grapple with issues of fraud and security. Data in this release is from ActivMedia Research's syndicated study "FutureScapes: Refining 'Net Strategy for the 21st Century." The full study of online habits and interests of 5,600 online citizens is available to purchase for $2,995 (single copy) or $5,000 (multi-user site license). ActivMedia Incorporated conducts custom and syndicated research that guides businesses to profitable online positions. Since 1994, ActivMedia has been detailing global 'Net trends and sector slices with a series of quantitative research reports, market analyses and case studies. Insightful analyses and accessible data support rational businesses decisions for clients including Andersen Consulting, Cisco, IBM, Intel, Microsoft, Visa, Yahoo and Ziff-Davis. CONTACT INFORMATION ActivMedia, Inc. http://www.activmedia.com (Research Home Page) Email: research at activmedia.com Harold Wolhandler, Vice President of Market Research Chris Anne Wheeler, Director of Information Services Tel: 800-639-9481, 603-924-9100 Fax: 603-924-2184 --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From jim.burnes at ssds.com Tue Oct 20 09:20:04 1998 From: jim.burnes at ssds.com (Jim Burnes - Denver) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 00:20:04 +0800 Subject: My citizenship renunciation made difficult In-Reply-To: <19981020091947.A29973@weathership.homeport.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Oct 1998, Adam Shostack wrote: > Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:19:47 -0400 > From: Adam Shostack > To: Vincent Cate , cypherpunks at cyberpass.net > Subject: Re: My citizenship renunciation made difficult > > I believe that the UN Universal Declaration of Human rights > includes the right to emmigrate without undue hardship. I would > suggest contacting Amnesty International to complain about this > harrassment by the US government. > > Article 13, section 2, article 15, section 2. > > http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html > My experience is that the US refers to the UN treaty when it wants to expand its powers over us. When it comes to protecting our rights, they probably blithefully ignore it. Try applying many of those human rights protections to the ChiComs and see what happens. jim From eric.seggebruch at East.Sun.COM Tue Oct 20 09:44:38 1998 From: eric.seggebruch at East.Sun.COM (Eric Seggebruch - NYC SE) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 00:44:38 +0800 Subject: My (Vince's) citizenship renunciation made difficult In-Reply-To: <000701bdfbec$a511c220$588195cf@blanc> Message-ID: <362CB592.B40A8AFF@east.sun.com> Blanc, Sometimes the best advice is to play the game, get what you want and let well enough alone. The fact that they may choose to do nothing does not mean that bucking the United States of America is a good idea. Follow the administrative procedures, leave your anger at home and if you want to change the way things are, work to be a good example of why libertarian values are morally correct. Eric S From bill.stewart at pobox.com Tue Oct 20 10:04:58 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 01:04:58 +0800 Subject: 2 questions: Prime Numbers and DES In-Reply-To: <19981018.151326.-968627.0.Steve.Benjamin@juno.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981019174636.008a3e00@idiom.com> Go look around for the crypto archives. Some good places have been www.replay.com (or replay.nl?), ftp.funet.fi, ftp.ox.ac.uk, ftp.dsi.unimi.it. Look for the Cyphernomicon and the sci.crypt faqs. Altavista is your friend. If you want code for DOS, remember that you can compile and run C programs on DOS, and a bare-bones DES program that uses stdin and stdout should do just fine. For prime numbers, read some books! Bruce Schneier's book is a good place to start. Also, look around on www.rsa.com. The standard approach to generating large prime numbers is to generate large random odd numbers of the length you want and see if they're prime. Actually proving primality is hard, but there are tests for "probable primes" that appear to be independent - so you take the candidate numbers and run 20 iterations of a test to get probability 2**-20 or 2**-40 of error. Depending on speed of things, it's usually more efficient to run a sieve to eliminate multiples of small primes (certainly 2,3,5,7, possibly many more) since those tests are often faster than the probable primality testing. If you want to _understand_ this stuff, as opposed to merely using it, you'll need some math, specifically number theory dealing with primes and modular arithmetic. But start with Schneier. At 03:13 PM 10/18/98 -0400, Stephen Benjamin wrote: >1. How can I generate 2 large prime numbers? I doubt I could create 2, >100-digit prime numbers in my head :-) > >2. Is there an implentation of DES in perl? I didn't see a link to one >on the export-a-sig page. If not perl, is there one for DOS? I'm >looking for a bare bones one, not something with tons of features >and a GUI. A perl or dos version of the unix "des" program would be >preferable. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From jmorris at intercode.com.au Tue Oct 20 10:07:56 1998 From: jmorris at intercode.com.au (James Morris) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 01:07:56 +0800 Subject: desperate.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Bernardo B. Terrado wrote: > Could you give any info about wireless transmission especifically > satellite transmission. > > Thank you and I desperately need your help. Can you be more specific? - James. -- James Morris From sorens at workmail.com Tue Oct 20 10:15:03 1998 From: sorens at workmail.com (Soren) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 01:15:03 +0800 Subject: My (Vince's) citizenship renunciation made difficult In-Reply-To: <000701bdfbec$a511c220$588195cf@blanc> Message-ID: <362D65B1.51F36124@workmail.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 662 bytes Desc: not available URL: From postino.up.ac.za at toad.com Tue Oct 20 10:16:40 1998 From: postino.up.ac.za at toad.com (postino.up.ac.za at toad.com) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 01:16:40 +0800 Subject: [ZA-Hacklist] Web Servers Message-ID: Hi There, this is an appeal for help WE are looking for someone to help us set up a remote web server outside our network (internationally or therwise) to experiment with running a web server through port 25 (SMTP) or port 110 (POP3). If you have the abilty to help us with this experiment it would be appreciated. Contact us. Any other comments appreciable too. From jim.burnes at ssds.com Tue Oct 20 10:36:00 1998 From: jim.burnes at ssds.com (Jim Burnes - Denver) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 01:36:00 +0800 Subject: Dust off your anonymous voting protocols... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Oct 1998, Robert Hettinga wrote: > Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 11:25:34 -0400 > From: Robert Hettinga > To: cryptography at c2.net, cypherpunks at cyberpass.net > Subject: Dust off your anonymous voting protocols... > > Now all we need is a modern-day Robbespierre? > > I love the smell of mob rule in the morning? > > Nawwwwww... > I much prefer an electronic republic. Enforced by order of magnitude cheaper digital cash backed by whatever the market prefers. Or as Bob H is so fond of inferring, Real economics, like real physics, is not an option. ignore them both at your own peril. jim too bad we don't have enough time to jumpstart it before Y2K. On the other hand maybe Y2K is the only thing that will allow it. From mix at anon.lcs.mit.edu Tue Oct 20 11:13:09 1998 From: mix at anon.lcs.mit.edu (lcs Mixmaster Remailer) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 02:13:09 +0800 Subject: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... Message-ID: <19981020174002.8373.qmail@nym.alias.net> > I see there are lots of interesting discussions on economy recently > on this list. But I miss stuffs relating to the currently existing > crisis of the financial market, topics like causes of failure of > LTCM etc. etc. Haven't we discused the failures of Little Timmy C. May enough? From jim at acm.org Tue Oct 20 11:26:07 1998 From: jim at acm.org (Jim Gillogly) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 02:26:07 +0800 Subject: Homophonic substitution [could you help.....] Message-ID: <362CCCAC.94253462@acm.org> Bernardo B. Terrado writes: > It's about Homophonic substitution and > map E to 17,19,23,47,64 > map A to 8,20,25,49 > map R to 1,29,65 > map T to 16,31,85 > but otherwise the ith letter maps to the 3ith letter > MANY A SLIP TWIXT THE CUP AND THE LIP > will become > 3608397220543324451666246931852117066045253909162147332445 > > My question is what/how did they represent the other letters like L (etc.) > coz I've tried to map them and yet I still can't understand > I even wrote A to Z then map them to 1 to 99, I still can't figure it out. That's the "otherwise" rule right after the four "maps". If the 2-digit number is divisible by 3 (like the first "36"), divide it by 3 and count that many letters through the alphabet starting with A. The 12th letter (0-origin) is M, so 36 corresponds to M and L corresponds to 33. That particular example doesn't use the ciphertext space very efficiently: only 41% of the available 2-digit numbers are used. If you must use a homophonic, I'd suggest a 100-letter pangram, which gives a reasonable distribution of letters, full coverage of the alphabet, and some chance of remembering the thing without carry incriminating documents. -- Jim Gillogly Sterday, 29 Winterfilth S.R. 1998, 17:38 12.19.5.11.2, 13 Ik 15 Yax, Sixth Lord of Night From interception1001 at hotmail.com Tue Oct 20 11:40:51 1998 From: interception1001 at hotmail.com (christian masson) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 02:40:51 +0800 Subject: NEWS Message-ID: <19981020180832.12400.qmail@hotmail.com> NEWS http://www.ec-europe.org/Communication/Reports/Infra/Communications/GSM-Content-lang1.html ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ichudov at Algebra.COM Tue Oct 20 12:03:14 1998 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 03:03:14 +0800 Subject: your mail In-Reply-To: <19981020181936.20151.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <199810201831.NAA20214@manifold.algebra.com> there is no policy just do not flood the list igor Jason Winge wrote: > > Please send information on the policy of the list owner. > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > - Igor. From insight at sprynet.com Wed Oct 21 03:44:03 1998 From: insight at sprynet.com (insight at sprynet.com) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 03:44:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199810211043.DAA04842@toad.com> 10/21/98 Y2K Solution... 8 Pine Circle Dr., Silicon Valley, Calif. OTC Company "TCFG" 21 st. Century Frontier Group has through several members of their administrative research department leaked vital information about their companies efforts. Everyone was tight lipped and interviews were refused, and through un-named sources we have learned that the technology and software solution are in the process of being patented! In over 1640 trials, using various data systems the use of the new technology and software solved the Y2K problem 100% of the time. This small publicly traded company "TCFG" which is just 3 years old is through various sources now negotiating with the "Big Boys"! "TCFG" the letters to look for..... ---------------------------------------------------------------- From vznuri at netcom.com Tue Oct 20 14:52:52 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 05:52:52 +0800 Subject: IP: Privacy Under Threat Message-ID: <199810202126.OAA13126@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Privacy Under Threat Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 02:37:56 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com PRIVACY UNDER THREAT The Global Internet Liberty Campaign has released its latest survey of privacy in 50 countries. It found that new technologies including the Internet are increasingly eroding privacy rights, but there is a growing trend towards privacy and data protection acts around the world. Over 40 countries are in the process of enacting such laws. See http://www.gilc.org/privacy/survey/ **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Tue Oct 20 14:53:26 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 05:53:26 +0800 Subject: IP: Former FBI Workers File Whistleblower Suit Message-ID: <199810202126.OAA13137@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Former FBI Workers File Whistleblower Suit Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:40:46 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com Source: Washington Post http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPcap/1998-10/20/021r-102098-idx.html Former FBI Workers File Whistleblower Suit Three Say Legal Protections Not Enforced By Michael Grunwald Washington Post Staff Writer Tuesday, October 20, 1998; Page A17 Three former FBI employees sued the federal government yesterday, alleging that President Clinton and Attorney General Janet Reno have failed to enforce a 1989 law that protects whistleblowers who complain about misconduct at the agency. Former FBI agent Thomas M. Chamberlin, former FBI chemist Jorge L. Villanueva and former FBI staffer Cheryl J. Whitehurst all allege that they were fired or forced out of the bureau for reporting misconduct by their colleagues. Whitehurst also contends she was harassed because she is married to Frederic Whitehurst, a chemist whose allegations launched a major investigation of the FBI laboratory. Congress exempted the FBI, the CIA and the National Security Agency from the Whistleblower Protection Act of 1989, which established a government-wide Office of Special Counsel to investigate complaints of retaliation against employees of most federal agencies. But a companion law directed the president to set up a separate system to protect FBI employees from reprisals, and in April 1997, after a lawsuit by Frederic Whitehurst, Clinton issued a memorandum directing Reno to create it. Justice Department officials are drafting new regulations that would establish an office at the department to handle internal complaints about the FBI. But after 18 months of work, the regulations are not ready. "This is not a simple process, but the attorney general is taking it very seriously," said Justice Department spokesman Bert Brandenburg. "When we're done with this, there will be a structure that FBI whistleblowers can turn to with confidence. . . . We're trying to set up something entirely new here. It's not just add water and mix." Brandenburg said the department expects to issue new regulations soon, but said he could not be more specific. But David K. Colapinto, an attorney for the three former FBI employees, said the government has been promising those regulations for nine years. "They keep telling us it's in the works, but they never produce any results," Colapinto said. "Without whistleblower protection for FBI employees, there cannot be effective oversight of the FBI's activities." The FBI declined comment, referring questions to Brandenburg. According to recent testimony by Justice Department inspector general Michael Bromwich, the FBI received 499 allegations of "serious misconduct" from its employees last year and another 518 allegations of "routine misconduct." But since the employees who made them were not covered by the Whistleblower Protection Act, they had no guarantee that they could appear before an administrative law judge if they believed they were victims of retaliation, or that they would have access to documents about their case during the discovery process. Frederic Whitehurst, once the FBI's top expert in explosives residue analysis, recently settled his own whistleblower lawsuit with the bureau for about $1.65 million. Bromwich's massive investigation did not substantiate all of Whitehurst's allegations, but it did reveal major shortcomings at the FBI lab. Cheryl Whitehurst said she was retaliated against for her husband's activities and for reporting the widespread use of bootlegged software on FBI computers in violation of copyright laws. She said she quit her job under duress last month. Villanueva, who also worked in the laboratory, said he lost his job in January because he refused to sign a petition supporting a supervisor who had been criticized in Bromwich's report, and because he complained that a colleague had forged a signature on a lab report. Chamberlin said he was fired in 1994 after he gave confidential testimony about wiretap violations by the FBI's Detroit field office, and then complained that the subsequent FBI investigation of the alleged violations had targeted him. � Copyright 1998 The Washington Post Company ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Tue Oct 20 14:54:27 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 05:54:27 +0800 Subject: IP: Biometric Weekly: 10-19-98 Message-ID: <199810202126.OAA13148@netcom13.netcom.com> From: Biometric Weekly Subject: IP: Biometric Weekly: 10-19-98 Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:48:10 -0600 To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com 10-19-98 Welcome to "Biometric Weekly " - a weekly e-mail report on biometric identification news - a service of the Biometric Digest. "Biometric Weekly" is distributed free of charge on Monday of each week. ............................................................................ .... Mentis Corp., a market research firm in Durham, N.C., says the biometric market will total $100 million this year, a tiny fraction of the $100 billion spent on private security in the U.S. Yet Mentis predicts the market will grow at a brisk 27% to 35% through 2000 as pattern-recognition software improves, computers become better able to handle the power-hungry biometric applications and prices fall. ............................................................................ .... Sonoma Resource Corp. has an agreement to acquire 45% of Biometric identification Inc. . BII is an innovator in creating and applying fingerprint authorization and verification technology. ............................................................................ .... Biometric Identification Inc. Chief Executive Officer Bob Kamm announced his firm is collaborating with Key Source International to integrate Bio ID silicon sensor fingerprint verification technology into Key Source computer keyboards. ............................................................................ .... Biometric Identification Inc. announced the development and introduction of prototypes for the first complete Biometric Fingerprint Identification System that utilizes silicon sensor verification technology. ............................................................................ .... SAFLINK Corporation, a wholly owned subsidiary of The National Registry Inc. announced that it has licensed speech recognition and speaker verification software technologies from Lernout & Hauspie Speech Products N.V. ............................................................................ .... BERGDATA AG releases its new Fingerprint Software Developer's Kit . Using this tool interested companies are able to develop and market their own fingerprint based security applications. ............................................................................ .... Identix Inc. (ASE:IDX), a provider of live-scan and biometric verification systems, announced the State of Wisconsin has chosen Tacoma, Wash.-based Sagem Morpho Inc. (Morpho), a subsidiary of Paris-based SAGEM SA, to provide Identix TouchPrint 600(TM) live-scan systems and TouchPrint 602 card-scan systems for use by Wisconsin law enforcement agencies. ............................................................................ .... Philips Flat Display Systems (FDS), a division of Royal Philips Electronics of the Netherlands, and Who? Vision Systems, Inc., a developer of fingerprint biometric technologies and products, announced they have partnered to develop and market a new line of flat fingerprint sensors for an array of portable computing and consumer electronics products. ............................................................................ .... T-NETIX, Inc. (Nasdaq: TNTX), a provider of specialized call processing and fraud control software technologies, announced today it was awarded a three-year contract, with an option for two additional years, for the installation of its new Inmate Calling System to Bell Atlantic and AT&T for the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. ............................................................................ .... Speech recognition took a small step forward last week when four companies announced that they had formed a V-Commerce Alliance to promote the technology for electronic commerce. Details of these four companies will appear in the next printed edition of the "Biometric Digest." ............................................................................ .... -Sylvan/Identix Fingerprinting Centers, a joint venture of Sylvan Learning Systems Inc. (SLVN) and Identix Inc. (IDX), received a contract from UAL Corp.'s (U) United Airlines unit to provide fingerprinting services. Sylvan/Identix said United will use Identix's TouchPrint 600 live-scan units in screening applicants to meet U.S. Postal Service requirements for background checks on employees who handle mail. ............................................................................ .... Printrak International Inc. (AFIS) received a contract valued at more than $45 million to provide automated fingerprint technology to the government of Argentina. The company said it expects to have the system up and running in less than a year. Printrak will work with prime contractor Siemens Nixdorf GmbH, a unit of Siemens AG, to fulfill the contract ............................................................................ .... Identix Inc. said it has won a contract for over $1.2 million to supply fingerprint identification equipment to the Internal Revenue Service. ANADAC Inc., a subsidiary of Identix, will supply the IRS with the TouchPrint 600 system which scans fingerprints automatically. The systems are being installed at IRS service centers throughout the nation to automate the fingerprinting process which is a major part of all IRS employee background checks. ............................................................................ .... A service of the "Biometric Digest," a monthly newsletter with weekly e-mail updates published by Biometric Digest, P.O. Box 510047, St. Louis, MO 63151-0047. Tel: (314) 892-8632. Fax: (314) 487-5198. "Biometric Digest" is an advertising-free technology newsletter dedicated solely to biometric identification technology. More information on the above is provided in the printed copy of the "Biometric Digest." You can obtain additional biometric information from our web site at: http://www.biodigest.com. The annual subscription is $255 in the United States and $325 outside the U.S. To subscribe, please send e-mail with your name, title, company name and address, email address, telephone and fax to - wrogers at anet-stl.com. We will send you an invoice. For information on Banking on Biometrics Conference on October 12-14, 1998, visit http://www.biodigest.com/conf98 If you should wish to discontinue the Biometric Weekly news service, you can cancel automatically by sending a request direct to: biodigest-request at anet-stl.com In the BODY of the memo, type - unsubscribe biometrics end Note: on a second line type "end." ..... or please press your REPLY button and send us a return e-mail requesting removal. **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Tue Oct 20 14:56:21 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 05:56:21 +0800 Subject: IP: Privacy Rules Send U.S. Firms Scrambling Message-ID: <199810202126.OAA13159@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Privacy Rules Send U.S. Firms Scrambling Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 10:15:15 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com Source: Washington Post http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/frompost/oct98/privacy20.htm Privacy Rules Send U.S. Firms Scrambling By Robert O'Harrow Jr. Washington Post Staff Writer Tuesday, October 20, 1998; Page C1 Business executives and government regulators have spent years noodling about whether new rules are needed to protect an individual's right to privacy in this information age. The European Union, by contrast, agreed to "harmonize" its member states' tough privacy protections three years ago, and regulations born of that agreement take effect next Monday, Oct. 26. That could be a big problem for many businesses on this side of the Atlantic. Under the new rules, the EU's 15 member countries are obliged to prohibit the transmission of names, addresses, ethnicity and other personal information to any country that fails to provide adequate data protection as defined under European law. European officials have said repeatedly over the past year that the patchwork of privacy rules in the U.S. may not meet their standards. Though no one expects the flow of information from Europe to stop suddenly on Monday, anxiety about the new laws is growing because no one is sure how they will be applied. Each country will have separate privacy laws that cover the mandates of the EU directive, and all have privacy agencies to oversee those laws. The kind of information covered by the regulations includes direct-mail lists, hotel and travel reservations, medical and work records, orders for products on the World Wide Web and a host of other data. Companies also will have to provide detailed disclosures to individuals about how the data will be used and give those same individuals access to the information to correct the data. To weigh the task at hand, consider that Citibank alone has 7.7 million consumer accounts and about 9,000 employees in EU countries. "The scope is very broad," said Peter Swire, a law professor at Ohio State University and co-author of "None of Your Business: World Data Flows, Electronic Commerce, and the European Privacy Directive." "For major companies, there will be significant compliance issues," he said. Thomas P. Vartanian, a D.C. lawyer and author of "21st Century Money, Banking & Commerce," said the effects could be both sweeping and quotidian. Consider the case of a German tourist who breaks a leg in New York, he said. The tourist's health plan in Berlin may be unwilling or slow to send medical records here. American companies also may be prohibited from transferring work records of European employees. Moreover, direct marketers could face sharp limitations on how they use lists of potential customers. Marketers, travel companies and other information-hungry firms in the United States - from giant International Business Machines Corp. to start-ups on the World Wide Web - are scrambling to assess what it could mean for them. And government officials are meeting to head off any potential crisis on Monday. "It holds the potential for leading to disruptions in the flow of data," said David Aaron, undersecretary for international trade at the Department of Commerce, who has been involved in talks with officials from the European Commission. "This could have a major impact." The deadline has sharply etched differences in approaches to data protection. Europeans consider information privacy a human right. Their dreadful memories of how Nazi Germany used personal records in the Holocaust played a role in development of the laws. In the United States, industry and government officials have stubbornly resisted the regulation of data collection, fearing restraints would stymie commerce and tread on the First Amendment. Privacy advocates in Europe have made it clear they intend to press their governments to be strict. A group called Privacy International has already said it intends to monitor an array of U.S. and British companies, including American Express Co., Citigroup, Microsoft Corp. and Visa International. "Until there is some sense of certainty about how these rules are going to apply, you're going to get what you always get with business uncertainty, that is, you get delays and you get increased costs of doing business," Vartanian said. Charles Prescott, vice president of international business for the Direct Marketing Association, agreed. "The uncertainty over how the directive will be turned into local law is causing tremendous anxiety," said Prescott, adding that hundreds of the group's U.S. members do extensive business in Europe. In an effort to head off disruptions, Commerce Department officials have been talking for months with counterparts in the European Commission, the government body that helps coordinate regulations and policies that affect all EU members. Those talks have eased fears of a sudden cutoff of data. Commission officials said they are impressed by the Clinton administration's efforts to highlight the importance of data protection and to press industry groups to come up with a self-regulation framework to ensure privacy on the Internet. "It's [in] nobody's interest, least of all ours, that we have a trade dispute," said John F. Mogg, a director general of the European Commission, who has been involved in talks with the Commerce Department's Aaron about the matter. Mogg described the talks as "wholly constructive." Both Mogg and Aaron acknowledge, however, that significant differences remain. Among the sticking points are provisions that give every citizen of member countries the right to find out what information about them is in a database and the power to correct mistakes. Few U.S. companies are prepared to offer such access because of the costs involved. The directive also requires each outside country to have an independent arbitrator to decide whether a company is being forthcoming about its data. Mogg said that is "fundamental to us." But a system for such accountability still does not exist in the U.S. Some countries also want remedies to be available to citizens for violations. But officials say there are reasons for optimism. Many companies may be able to meet the new guidelines by writing contracts that promise to uphold key provisions, and by giving customers, employees and others detailed disclosure statements about how their information will be used. A group called Privacy & American Business has worked with experts in the United States and Europe to draft model contracts that would be helpful, particularly for small and medium-size businesses that can't afford to enter into lengthy negotiations. Companies also may be able to collect information from individuals who give explicit consent, officials said. "The mood now is cautiously optimistic," said Harriet Pearson, director of public affairs for IBM. Pearson said IBM has been working for more than a year to prepare for the regulations and is in good shape to comply. But she added that many questions remain unanswered for large and small companies alike. "It's a very uncertain equation at this point," she said. � Copyright 1998 The Washington Post Company ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From nobody at replay.com Tue Oct 20 16:01:57 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 07:01:57 +0800 Subject: Happy Birthday to Convicted Child Molester Gary Burnore In-Reply-To: <199810140550.HAA15476@replay.com> Message-ID: <199810202220.AAA31586@replay.com> gburnore at databasix.com (Gary L. Burnore) wrote: > >fees and PLED GUILTY, > > Ronald Guimlette, please correct your lies. I didn't plead guilty. If you're going to smear him you should at least learn to spell "Guilmette". So what was your plea? No contest? > >Real comforting to the folks with kids living on Bland Road and the > >immediate vicinity... > > More lies Ronald. Can't see to well from CA, eh? How can an opinion be a "lie"? Sarcasm is lost on perverts like you, I guess. If you're saying that your neighbors welcome convicted sex offenders in their neighborhood, then you and they deserve each other. > >> There are a few > >> that post here that really don't like him, though, and it seems they > >> will do most anything to keep this thread alive. > > > >What? Someone doesn't like child molesters? Imagine that! > > There are no child molesters posting here. You're lying again. That was a self-contradictory statement, since you, a convicted child molester, just posted. From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Tue Oct 20 16:02:32 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 07:02:32 +0800 Subject: lotus notes secure mail, help configuring Message-ID: <199810202204.XAA14836@server.eternity.org> Anyone conversant with configuring and using lotus notes and domino mail server for email encryption? I could use someone familiar with it to pick their brains on the topic. The purpose of this exercise is to find out the keys used in the lotus notes export versions "international crypto" implementation ("differential key escrow" or whatever it's called -- the 40 bits unescrowed, and 24 bits escrowed design). First step is to get it to encrypt something. I have a domino mail server running, and the notes mail client, but am having difficulty getting it to send encrypted mail. Please email me. Adam From nobody at replay.com Tue Oct 20 16:07:12 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 07:07:12 +0800 Subject: Happy Birthday to Convicted Child Molester Gary Burnore In-Reply-To: <199810140550.HAA15476@replay.com> Message-ID: <199810202216.AAA31152@replay.com> gburnore at databasix.com (Gary L. Burnore) wrote: > >Just because you're pissed that someone anonymously blew the whistle > >on your pederasty in Santa Clara, CA by informing your victim's > >mother and school officials is no reason for such ad hominem. > > Hi ronnie. Too bad you're still just making stuff up. The above never > happened. So which was the lie? This recent post of yours, or the previous one where you claimed: -> So now the cowards in Ronald Francis's corner (I'm outright expecting the -> culprit to be ronald francis himself) have taken to sending email to -> those who have names listed on databasix's web page. Sending comments to -> a 17 year old that they're going to tell her mother that she's having an -> affair with me. Telling her mother that I'm molesting her daughter. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ -> Having all sorts of fun. If it didn't happen, why did you claim it did? You are the one who resorted to a PUBLIC post to whine about a PRIVATE e-mail not even addressed to you. And what's this about a DataBasix web page? Were you maintaining a kiddie porn site on all of your victims to trade with fellow pedophiles? Your own wording "Telling her mother that I'm molesting her daughter" pretty much sums up the whistleblowing that occurred. Why else didn't the girl or her mother complain, instead of you? > >You > >were busted fair and square, and your own guilty plea sealed your > >fate. > > I didn't plead guilty, liar. No contest? Insanity? > >BTW, did you ever ask yourself how this "RFG" character would > >have known that you were screwing your live-in girlfriend's daughter > >behind her back, if he's "the one and only anonymous asshole"? > > I wasn't screwing anyone. I also wasn't living with anyone. More lies on > your part. You never will get the facts straight. Not even the $30K in legal fees you spent could refute those facts upon which you were convicted. It's a little too late to pretend you were innocent. Or are you going to fall back on Camille Klein's pitiful tale of how your victim allegedly tried to "rape" you? From nobody at replay.com Tue Oct 20 16:14:21 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 07:14:21 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199810202235.AAA00469@replay.com> At 10:41 AM 10/20/98 -0500, Bauer, Michael (C)(STP) wrote: >Anyone got any crypanalytical dirt on PC-Anywhere? Is its cryptosystem any >good, or are they doing something stupid like XOR? > Hey, fuck you. -The Vernam Cipher Society- From s1180 at qmail.pjwstk.waw.pl Tue Oct 20 17:26:25 1998 From: s1180 at qmail.pjwstk.waw.pl (Jan Dobrucki) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:26:25 +0800 Subject: Dorkslayers.. In-Reply-To: <01BDFBA8.6C12F0A0@noc.mfn.org> Message-ID: <362D3196.10F114B0@qmail.pjwstk.waw.pl> Who the heck are the Dork Slayers? Do they use guns/ swords/ explosives/ other deadly stuff ?? to eliminate Dorks? ;-) Or maybe they should be called, "The Slayers of Dork Inc."... :-) Later, Jan Dobrucki From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Tue Oct 20 17:26:41 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:26:41 +0800 Subject: SSZ - IRS update Message-ID: <199810210013.TAA00301@einstein.ssz.com> Hi, Thought I'd drop a line about what's been going on around here for the last few days.... The IRS and I have agreed upon an affadavit. I've now sent it off to them and they will let me know if I still need to go to Seattle in Nov. for the Grand Jury. That's about it. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From shadow at tfs.net Tue Oct 20 17:27:06 1998 From: shadow at tfs.net (shadow) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:27:06 +0800 Subject: desperate.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <362D2291.2C22863F@tfs.net> >Could you give any info about wireless transmission especifically >satellite transmission. >Thank you and I desperately need your help. Well lets see, what kind of government budget are you working with or are just indepentantly wealthy? It takes lots o' money to get setup in satellite transmission unless you just want to receive the info then that is as cheap as getting a used dish and the equipment to go with it. If you plan to transmit, then the good ol' boys of the FCC will want your money for a license. Then there are zoning laws to check into, construction permits, concret to pour, power for it, and oh a wife that will put up with it in the yard. From casinofun at who.net Wed Oct 21 08:52:04 1998 From: casinofun at who.net (casinofun at who.net) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:52:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Internet Casino Lottery - Enter at No Cost Message-ID: <199810211449.OAA11354@intersky.com> Enter at No Cost! The time has come to enjoy casino games from the comfort of your home. Find out where to play all of your favorite casino games online securely. Blackjack, Craps, Slot Machines, Roulette, Baccarat, Bingo & Much More! The best odds. Huge pay-outs. Top-Rated Customer Service. 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(fwd) Message-ID: <199810210135.UAA00638@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 18:53:54 -0500 > From: shadow > Subject: Re: desperate.... > > >Could you give any info about wireless transmission especifically > >satellite transmission. > > >Thank you and I desperately need your help. > > Well lets see, what kind of government budget are you working with or > are just indepentantly wealthy? > > It takes lots o' money to get setup in satellite transmission unless you > just want to receive the info then that is as cheap as getting a used > dish and the equipment to go with it. If you plan to transmit, then the > good ol' boys of the FCC will want your money for a license. Then there > are zoning laws to check into, construction permits, concret to pour, > power for it, and oh a wife that will put up with it in the yard. Wow, and all I have to do is setup my DirectPC dish and pay about $150/mo. for 400K (max) down-link bandwidth, though I do need some mechanism to transmit my data out, a regular modem works with the standard software. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jya at pipeline.com Tue Oct 20 18:50:37 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 09:50:37 +0800 Subject: SSZ - IRS update In-Reply-To: <199810210013.TAA00301@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199810210134.VAA10088@camel14.mindspring.com> Okay, thanks for the update. Any chance that affidavit can be shared? Or is there a sword over your head? Not meaning to get in your affairs, just hoping for information. Can you tell more about the lack of support from Austin cpunks, any change, or are you left to fend for yourself? Sorry to say the obvious, but watch your back. No not Adam, he's certifiably cuckoo, it's the reasonable people that scare me. From jya at pipeline.com Tue Oct 20 18:50:42 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 09:50:42 +0800 Subject: CJustice Message-ID: <199810210125.VAA19427@camel14.mindspring.com> We got documents on CJ from the US District Court,Western WA, in Tacoma. Pretty skimpy but informative on why CJ has been held for two months since his arrest on August 18. As noted earlier, CJ has been indicted, clubbed with a blunt instrument: COUNT 1 Beginning on or about June 23, 1997, and continuing through December 9, 1997, at Tacoma and elsewhere, within the Western District of Washington, CARL EDWARD JOHNSON, did threaten to kill certain federal law enforcement officers and judges of the United States, with intent to impeded, intimidate, or interfere with said officers and judges on account of their official duties. All in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Sections 115(a)(1)(B). Dated September 30 1998. The June 23 and December dates bracket the messages cited in the complaint by Jeff Gordon, and discussed here. The grand jury must have base its charge on Jeff's complaint for there's no explication of the charges in the indictment. (See the complaint at: http://jya.com/cejfiles.htm.) On the date of the indictment a bench warrant was issued for CJ's arrest. It was returned on October 9 marked "returned unexcuted - warrant issued in error - per AUSA Robb London." CJ was in Springfield during this time. There were two handwritten notes. One says: "Called Tucson - Have Mag case on 98-2824M. Undergoing psych eval. 8/26/98. 520-620-7200. The other: "10/5/98. Per Tucson, Deft in Psych Eval. Unsure of dates in order to figure Speedy Trail." A Case Status form, dated September 22, 1998, notes that CJ is in detention based on a District of Arizona order, with the note, "8-18-98; now awaiting compentency evaluation and R40 hearing." At the bottom the form states "The estimated trial time is 4 trial days." What's screwy about all this is that when the grand jury returned the indictment and a bench warrant was issued, CJ was in Springfield but the AUSA seemed not to know it, or didn't tell the magistrate who issued the bench warrant, although the notes in the case file clearly showed that this information had been recorded. Who knows what else the grand jury and judge was told or not told by the US Attorneys and the IRS -- the public record tells naught. And CJ's right to a speedy trial, though noted, is overridden by the prolonged psychological evaluation process, as well as overlooked or ignored communications between WA and AZ. And the buffoonish bench warrant? That appears to indicate incompetence in the US Attorney's office -- that's AUSA Robb London in charge (not to slight Katrina Pflaumer, USA, and William Redkey, AUSA, who also signed the indictment). And the four days for a trial for alleged murder attempts? Is this real? Or is this threat of quick vicious justice by biased attorneys with vengence in mind, coupled with the prolonged delay, a ploy to coerce CJ to plead? Brings back memories of Jim Bell's punishment by delay, isolation, manipulation, change of jails, and coercion, with a plea bargain just to get the the psychological torture to stop. Wonder if Jim and CJ are allowed to swap tips and tricks on surviving political imprisonment in the United States of America. Creative writing of text and music, lyrics for the song of assassination politics by American Justice. From blancw at cnw.com Tue Oct 20 18:56:08 1998 From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 09:56:08 +0800 Subject: My (Vince's) citizenship renunciation made difficult In-Reply-To: <362CB592.B40A8AFF@east.sun.com> Message-ID: <000101bdfc93$c6846780$218195cf@blanc> >From Eric S: : Sometimes the best advice is to play the game, get what : you want and let well enough alone. The fact that they may choose to do : nothing does not mean that bucking the United States of America is a good idea. : Follow the administrative procedures, leave your anger at home and if : you want to change the way things are, work to be a good : example of why libertarian values are morally correct. .............................................. Eric, I appreciate your concern for my safety. But if playing the game was the right way to do things, the 'cypherpunks' would not exist, PGP would not have been created or distributed, John Gilmore would not have constructed his DES cracker, and Vince would not have left the country, or now be trying to change citizenship. I realize that Vince was looking for more practical advice than I offered; I didn't really expect him to take those ideas seriously (and I suspect some of these also crossed his mind). Bucking the US govmt directly may not appear to be the best idea, but it depends on one's circumstance: a person should do what they feel is possible and agreeable to them in dealing with nonsense, whether it is filling out and signing forms of defection, or stocking up on guns and bullets the way Tim May does. In any case, being a good example of why libertarian values are morally correct is not something I would ever do. Individuals have a mind of their own, and I expect them to use it, to decide for themselves which values they will support. I feel no obligation to present demos, no vested interest in converting anyone to any side of an issue. I will argue for reason and facts and reality, but I would leave an individual to face the consequences of their own choices. What I am motivated to do, is object to having to take the consequences of somebody *else's* choices. (And Soren: integrity and morality are not incompatible; in fact, they co-exist and where one is reduced, the other is also diminished). .. Blanc From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Tue Oct 20 19:25:52 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 10:25:52 +0800 Subject: SSZ - IRS update (fwd) Message-ID: <199810210216.VAA01037@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 21:26:29 -0400 > From: John Young > Subject: Re: SSZ - IRS update > Okay, thanks for the update. Any chance that affidavit can > be shared? Or is there a sword over your head? > > Not meaning to get in your affairs, just hoping for information. Once I know that my part in the matter is concluded I'll scan and make available the subpeona, the affadavit, & the RCMP photo of Toto that I was asked to identify, but not to share around at this time. That won't occur until I've either been released from the Grand Jury or appeared before them. I will continue to make updates as events unfold provided they don't conflict with any actions (or non-actions) that I've agreed to comply with. > Can you tell more about the lack of support from Austin cpunks, > any change, or are you left to fend for yourself? Um, I would have to say that other than the one person who helped me obtain a lawyer to review my subpeona and affadavit, another person apologized for their oversight, I've basicaly received zero support. I've decided that since the group is so apathetic about the entire set of issues relating to cryptography, civil liberties, & economics I won't be hosting the webpage or mailing list after Nov. 1, 1998. This bums me out more than I know how to express, something like 4+ years worth of effort shot to shit. It has such potential but will remain unfulfilled so long as members find the O'Henry Pun-Off more important. This in no way will alter my continued support of the CDR node I host. There has not been a single piece of discussion on the Austin Cpunks mailing list itself other than my announcement that I was ceasing support and 1 persons responce that they had no objections. > Sorry to say the obvious, but watch your back. No not Adam, > he's certifiably cuckoo, it's the reasonable people that scare me. ^ supposedly :) ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Tue Oct 20 20:59:49 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 11:59:49 +0800 Subject: APM: A Meeting (fwd) Message-ID: <199810210350.WAA01610@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 21:55:55 -0500 > From: "Mark P. Fister" > Subject: Re: APM: A Meeting > So here goes: > > A) Wayne, in order to constantly let everyone know how many are subscribed, > could you start an 'Administrivia' mailing which prefaces the subject line > with the number of people currently subscribed? This is what Russ Cooper > does with the NTBugTraq mailing list. :) Wayne doesn't set policy for SSZ. I must admit I'm at a loss as to why this particular piece of info is the least bit interesting. While I have no objections in principle somebody else will have to do the programming and demonstrate it will work *before* it goes into place on SSZ. Wayne does have permission to experiment on SSZ machines. The code must be stable *and* fail-safe. Before it goes in it will be required to demonstrate various failure modes. > flexible scripting engine accessing mongo data and displaying hip graphics > to the user through their favorite browser." Check it out - you won't be > sorry. Till you see the bill for supporting all those hip (sic) graphics and have to spend the time responding to all the bitches about how long it takes for end-users to get those pages to their machines. I'd like to offer another operating paradigm for the list, leave all the marketing bullshit elsewhere. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. 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From Announcements_reply at rpkusa.com Wed Oct 21 14:40:28 1998 From: Announcements_reply at rpkusa.com (Jack Oswald / CEO / RPK Security) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 14:40:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: ANNOUNCEMENT: RPK SECURITY'S "SAFECRACKER CHALLENGE" INVITES USERS TO "BREAK" RPK ENCRYPTONITE ENGINE AND WIN $10,000 Message-ID: <199810212135.OAA11043@proxy4.ba.best.com> You have received this message because at some time in the past your name was submitted to our e-mail mailing list database. If you do not wish (or no longer wish) to receive announcements, updates and news concerning the RPK Encryptonite Engine or the RPK InvisiMail e-mail security products, please forward this message to remove at rpkusa.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- CONTACT Paula Miller Lyn Oswald Nadel Phelan, Inc. RPK Security Inc. 408-439-5570 x277 212-488-9891 paulam at nadelphelan.com lynoswald at rpkusa.com RPK SECURITY'S "SAFECRACKER CHALLENGE" INVITES USERS TO "BREAK" RPK ENCRYPTONITE ENGINE AND WIN $10,000 SAN FRANCISCO, CA. October 21, 1998 - RPK Security, Inc. (www.rpkusa.com), a technology leader in fast public key encryption, announced today the "SafeCracker Challenge", a contest offering US$10,000 to the first person who breaks the technology behind the company's uniquely fast public key cryptosystem, RPK Encryptonite Engine. In order to receive the cash reward, participants must download the encrypted test document and test public key from RPK Security's website, www.rpkusa.com, and then submit via email the private key that corresponds to the current test public key, or the correctly decrypted test document. "We're launching the SafeCracker Challenge to demonstrate that the RPK Encryptonite Engine provides the most secure, fast and flexible public key system on the market today," said Jack Oswald, president and CEO of RPK Security. "Recently patented in New Zealand and the US, the technology behind the RPK Encryptonite Engine is based on the same mathematics as Diffie-Hellman Key Exchange, a widely used algorithm for creating secure network-based communications systems, and is highly respected by security experts." The RPK Encryptonite Engine is a uniquely fast public key algorithm for encryption, authentication and digital signatures. It offers a combination of the benefits of commonly used public key systems (ease of key management, authentication and digital signatures) and the high performance characteristics of commonly used symmetric or "secret key" systems. Developed outside of the U.S., the RPK Encryptonite Engine is available globally with strong encryption, unlike competing products that are restricted by U.S. export regulations. ABOUT RPK SECURITY Founded in 1995, RPK Security, Inc. is a technology leader in fast public key cryptography. Its flagship RPK Encryptonite(tm) Engine, a uniquely fast and strong public key encryption technology, is available worldwide in custom hardware and software toolkits on multiple platforms. Developed from widely accepted security mathematics and techniques, the RPK Encryptonite Engine is easily embedded into new and existing hardware and software applications. RPK's cryptographic research and product development is based in New Zealand, Switzerland and the U.K, with worldwide sales and marketing operations in San Francisco, CA. Visit RPK's website at www.rpkusa.com or call (212) 488-9891. From nobody at replay.com Wed Oct 21 14:51:13 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 14:51:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Message-ID: <199810212150.XAA07067@replay.com> Here's an idea. FUCK OFF! Why don't you go stick a Y2k bowling ball up your ass, and never post here again, you degenerate piece of shit! Or better yet, take every member of your administrative research department, march them up to the roof of the highest building in Silicon Valley, and push them all off! Then throw yourself off, you spineless maggot! The only letters I'm looking for are the ones signed by Janet Reno to the BATF to march in and kill your entire employee base. Please let me know when those arrive. At 12:55 PM 10/21/98 +0000, nations at freewilly.com wrote: > 10/21/98 > >Y2K Solution! >8 Pine Circle Dr., Silicon Valley, Calif. > >OTC Company "TCFG" 21 st. Century Frontier Group has >through several members of their administrative research >department leaked vital information about their companies >efforts. > >Everyone was tight lipped and interviews were refused, >and through un-named sources we have learned that the >technology and software solution are in the process of >being patented! > >In over 1640 trials, using various data systems the use >of the new technology and software solved the Y2K >problem 100% of the time. > >This small publicly traded company "TCFG" which is just >3 years old is through various sources now negotiating >with the "Big Boys"! > >"TCFG" the letters to look for..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > From Announcements_reply at rpkusa.com Wed Oct 21 15:34:46 1998 From: Announcements_reply at rpkusa.com (Jack Oswald / CEO / RPK Security) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 15:34:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: ANNOUNCEMENT: INVISIMAIL INTERNATIONAL LTD. ANNOUNCES RPK InvisiMail VERSION 3.0 Message-ID: <199810212219.PAA10544@proxy4.ba.best.com> You have received this message because at some time in the past your name was submitted to our e-mail mailing list database. If you do not wish (or no longer wish) to receive announcements, updates and news concerning the RPK Encryptonite Engine or the RPK InvisiMail e-mail security products, please forward this message to remove at rpkusa.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- CONTACT Paula Miller Lyn Oswald Nadel Phelan, Inc. RPK Security Inc. 408-439-5570 x277 212-488-9891 paulam at nadelphelan.com lynoswald at rpkusa.com INVISIMAIL INTERNATIONAL LTD. ANNOUNCES RPK InvisiMail VERSION 3.0 New York, NY, October 21 1998 - InvisiMail International, Ltd., (www.InvisiMail.com) announced today the latest release of its RPK InvisiMail Intro 3.0 and RPK InvisiMail Deluxe 3.0 e-mail encryption products. RPK InvisiMail provides individual e-mail users with the easiest solution for automatically and transparently encrypting e-mail messages and attachments. The first e-mail security product with globally strong encryption, RPK InvisiMail integrates seamlessly with more e-mail products than any other security solution available today. RPK InvisiMail enables authentication of the sender and verifies contents have not been changed in transit. RPK InvisiMail Intro provides fast, secure (607bit) encryption for e-mail messages and attachments, and is unobtrusive allowing e-mail which is sent to non-InvisiMail users to be simply and intelligently passed as a conventional e-mail message. RPK InvisiMail Deluxe adds an even higher level of security (up to 1279bit) and provides features such as e-mail compression that reduces transmission time, and digital message signatures to validate senders. InvisiMail International also offers RPK InvisiMail Enterprise Edition, a strong corporate e-mail security add-in. RPK InvisiMail Enterprise Edition's flexible design allows corporate IT managers to configure e-mail security for individual users, networks and gateways. More Pricing and Availability The RPK InvisiMail Intro version is free. The Deluxe version retails for $29.95 U.S. Both the Intro and the Deluxe versions are available for download from the InvisiMail International web site at www.InvisiMail.com. Pricing for RPK InvisiMail Enterprise Edition is based on the number of seat licenses and starts at $100 per user. ABOUT InvisiMail INTERNATIONAL LTD. InvisiMail International Ltd., founded in 1997, specializes in secure Internet commerce and communications solutions for a wide range of applications. Developed using RPK Security, Inc.'s core technology, the RPK Encryptonite Engine, the InvisiMail range of products supports secure message-based applications including Client Services ECommerce, EDI and others that require absolute confidentiality and the highest security levels. This allows the simplest e-mail systems to become the most powerful business and commerce tools. Contact InvisiMail at www.InvisiMail.com or call +44 1624 611 003. ABOUT RPK SECURITY Founded in 1995, RPK Security, Inc. is a technology leader in fast public key cryptography. Its flagship RPK Encryptonite Engine, a uniquely fast and strong public key encryption technology, is available worldwide in custom hardware and software toolkits on multiple platforms. Visit RPK's website at www.rpkusa.com or call (212) 488-9891. From edsmith at IntNet.net Wed Oct 21 15:43:40 1998 From: edsmith at IntNet.net (Edwin E. Smith) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 15:43:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Women cannot commit rape? In-Reply-To: <362DD16D.2B1A6570@wis.weizmann.ac.il> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19981021183752.0097b390@mailhost.IntNet.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 This judge obviously never heard of being "Scared stiff!" (I'm not joking!) At 02:19 PM 10/21/98 +0200, you wrote: >French Supreme Court rules that women cannot commit rape > >Copyright � 1998 Nando.net >Copyright � 1998 Reuters News Service > >PARIS (October 21, 1998 06:38 a.m. EDT http://www.nandotimes.com) - >France's >Supreme Court ruled on Wednesday that women are unable to commit the >crime of >rape because they cannot sexually penetrate men. > >"The material element of the crime of rape is only realized if the >perpetrator >commits the act of sexual penetration on the person of the victim," it >said in >its judgment. > >The court, known as the Cour de Cassation, overturned a lower court >ruling >that Catherine Maillard could be tried for rape on charges of forcing >her >underage stepson to have sex with her repeatedly between 1986 and 1992. > >Maillard could only be tried for "aggravated sexual aggression" against >the >boy, while his father Michel Deloisy had to be tried for "moral >abandonment of >a child" instead of the original charge of "complicity in aggravated >rape," >the court said. > >With its judgment, the court seemed to contradict an earlier ruling it >issued >in December 1997 saying that forcing someone to perform oral sex act was >legally equivalent to rape. > > >-- >Tim Griffiths griffith at wis.weizmann.ac.il >Center for Submicron Research http://tim01.ex.ac.uk >Weizmann Institute of Science (972)-8-934-2736 >Rehovot 76100 Israel >PGP Public key available - finger tim at tim01.ex.ac.uk > >The real value lies not in what I say or do, >but in your reaction to it. -DF > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQA/AwUBNi5iP0mNf6b56PAtEQLGSgCfTGnGghfeKzUqgbvqcdcQweSdmecAoIUF IKfm8vWr74WI/yLlFkqMO6lr =UchJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- When freedom is outlawed.......Only outlaws will be free! If cryptography is outlawed, pomz pvumbxt xjmm ibwf dszquphsbqiz. Fun! Fast! Revealing! Try "The World's Smallest Political Quiz" at: http://www.self-gov.org/quiz.html IS AIDS A GOVERNMENT/DRUG COMPANY HOAX? http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/index.htm When you blame others, you give up your power to change. Dr. Robert Anthony Libertarian Party of Hillsborough County, FL http://home.tampabay.rr.com/lphc When a place gets crowded enough to require ID's, social collapse is not far away. It is time to go elsewhere. The best thing about space travel is that it made it possible to go elsewhere. Lazarus Long From rsriram at krdl.org.sg Wed Oct 21 00:50:57 1998 From: rsriram at krdl.org.sg (X1) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 15:50:57 +0800 Subject: PRNGs and testers. Message-ID: <19981021151835.A26267@krdl.org.sg> Hi, A few questions on Pseudo Random Number Generators... 1. Which are the best software PRNG's available today? 2. Are there any software implementations to test the randomness of a PRNG ? I've looked at Diehard - is there anything else? Thanks, R Sriram. From Theodor.SCHLICKMANN at BXL.DG13.cec.be Wed Oct 21 02:01:15 1998 From: Theodor.SCHLICKMANN at BXL.DG13.cec.be (Theodor.SCHLICKMANN at BXL.DG13.cec.be) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 17:01:15 +0800 Subject: "We have to destroy privacy in order to protect privacy" Message-ID: What is privacy? Just now the political representatives show the world how protection of privacy looks like in the world's leading Nation. Victim is the President himself who unwillingly has become a benchmark case because of his sexual affairs. Although this is a matter of law, only political strategies are executed. Protection of privacy turns out to be the most important human rights issue in this information technology age. Definition of privacy is difficult. It includes not only data protection; it draws a line at the border where a society is allowed to get concerned about an individual. Louis Brandeis, Member of the Supreme Court, said in 1890: The right for privacy is the right for an individual to live for him/her-self. Protection of privacy includes protection of private information, safety, protection of communication, and protection of territory (house, public space, and work place). Following several articles in American newspapers, privacy at the work place is in great danger. Surveillance is very often made part of the contract with the employer. A Report by the American Management Association says that two thirds of employers are controlling emails and other work at the computer, and are tapping phone calls. Surveillance cameras are used, e.g., to trace movements of employees in company buildings; regular tests for drugs, requests for intimate information and various psychological tests are performed. Many people in the US may believe this is normal. Who tells them that this a violation of privacy rights ? The government ? Bill Gates ? Tim May ? Tim May wrote: >To be more concrete, if I compile lists of who is writing articles on >Usenet, I have no obligation to either purge these records or >show them to others or not sell them or _anything_. The >government cannot get at myrecords except under limited >situations. If companies are using personal data, which they have gathered from open sources, without explicit permission for other purposes than in direct business with that person, then they are violating data protection rules. If the sources are not open, then they are also violating fair competition rules which may be considered to be criminal in some countries. Tim May wrote: >Europe's "data privacy laws," which I have been critical of for >more than ten years now, are an abomination. While the laws >sound well-intentioned, they effectively give the state the power >to sift through filing cabinets and disk drives looking for violations. Sifting through filing cabinets is also clearly a violation of privacy rights. However, does it mean that privacy is uncontrollable? Alternatively, the only protection is not to put any personal data on a network. Use your pseudonym instead. Strong encryption does not help, because the receiver side may not respect your privacy. Theodor Schlickmann From mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de Wed Oct 21 03:01:35 1998 From: mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de (Mok-Kong Shen) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 18:01:35 +0800 Subject: PRNGs and testers. In-Reply-To: <19981021151835.A26267@krdl.org.sg> Message-ID: <362DB7C9.F0DE3296@stud.uni-muenchen.de> X1 wrote: > > Hi, > > A few questions on Pseudo Random Number Generators... > > 1. Which are the best software PRNG's available today? Not answerable. (Reason: substitute car, HIFI, medical doctor, etc. for 'software PRNG'). > > 2. Are there any software implementations to test the randomness of a > PRNG ? I've looked at Diehard - is there anything else? There are tests that one can implement with reasonable effort. A test relevant in cryptology is Maurer's test. See Menezes et al., Handbook of Applied Cryptography. M. K. Shen From sorens at workmail.com Wed Oct 21 03:48:54 1998 From: sorens at workmail.com (Soren) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 18:48:54 +0800 Subject: My (Vince's) citizenship renunciation made difficult In-Reply-To: <000101bdfc93$c6846780$218195cf@blanc> Message-ID: <362E5F5F.EDBF2695@workmail.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 359 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jya at pipeline.com Wed Oct 21 04:54:42 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:54:42 +0800 Subject: Status of GSM Crypto Attacks Message-ID: <199810211113.HAA20775@camel7.mindspring.com> Forward from anonymous: Wed, 21 Oct 98 An engineer at a US wireless telecom and a contributor to Cryptologia--has asked me to look into the present status of attacks on the GSM encryption schemes: comp128 (a3a8 authentication, etc.) and, more importantly, the A5.1 and A5.2 voice/data encryption algorithms. After searching the web, I see that you have similar interests in this matter. I've already sent off inquiries to some of the researchers in this area--Ross Anderson, Simon Shepherd and the two Berkeley students (Goldberg and Wagner). So far, I've only heard back from Wagner. Do you have anything interesting to say about this matter--has anything happened since the Spring? Has a consensus been reached on some of the issues discussed in the document? I'm trying to get a handle on the present state-of-the art: Where do things presently stand--who is doing the work and what, if anything, has been verified/demonstrated? Has A5 been cracked? What can be said about the possibility of intercepting and decoding an on-air conversation? From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Oct 21 05:48:37 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 20:48:37 +0800 Subject: Forwarded mail... Message-ID: <199810211231.HAA02648@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: Theodor.SCHLICKMANN at BXL.DG13.cec.be > Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 10:12:37 +0200 > Subject: Re: "We have to destroy privacy in order to protect privacy" > What is privacy? The ability to store or archive material without worry of it being distributed without prior permission. The right to tell somebody you won't answer their question or include them in the dicussion, to the extend of asking them to go someplace else so they can't overhear or grab the dialogue. Ultimately it's a societal behavior that is exemplified by citizens not obtaining material that is relevant or related to you without involving you from the beginning. > Although this is a matter of law, only political > strategies are executed. Law == Politics > Protection of privacy turns out to be the most important > human rights issue in this information technology age. Um, actualy Writ of Habeas Corpus is the most important right. Privacy and everything else are moot if your sitting in a jail cell with no hope of release or trial. > Following several articles in American newspapers, > privacy at the work place is in great danger. There isn't any privacy at the workspace. When you hire on to an employer *AND* agree to work on their premises you voluntarily give this up. It is the same situation as if you hire a kiddy-watcher and you video-tape the activity for your protection. If you really want privacy protection in the workplace then insist that detailed limits are included in any contract (pretty much unheard of). ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From griffith at wis.weizmann.ac.il Wed Oct 21 05:57:00 1998 From: griffith at wis.weizmann.ac.il (Tim Griffiths) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 20:57:00 +0800 Subject: Women cannot commit rape? Message-ID: <362DD16D.2B1A6570@wis.weizmann.ac.il> French Supreme Court rules that women cannot commit rape Copyright � 1998 Nando.net Copyright � 1998 Reuters News Service PARIS (October 21, 1998 06:38 a.m. EDT http://www.nandotimes.com) - France's Supreme Court ruled on Wednesday that women are unable to commit the crime of rape because they cannot sexually penetrate men. "The material element of the crime of rape is only realized if the perpetrator commits the act of sexual penetration on the person of the victim," it said in its judgment. The court, known as the Cour de Cassation, overturned a lower court ruling that Catherine Maillard could be tried for rape on charges of forcing her underage stepson to have sex with her repeatedly between 1986 and 1992. Maillard could only be tried for "aggravated sexual aggression" against the boy, while his father Michel Deloisy had to be tried for "moral abandonment of a child" instead of the original charge of "complicity in aggravated rape," the court said. With its judgment, the court seemed to contradict an earlier ruling it issued in December 1997 saying that forcing someone to perform oral sex act was legally equivalent to rape. -- Tim Griffiths griffith at wis.weizmann.ac.il Center for Submicron Research http://tim01.ex.ac.uk Weizmann Institute of Science (972)-8-934-2736 Rehovot 76100 Israel PGP Public key available - finger tim at tim01.ex.ac.uk The real value lies not in what I say or do, but in your reaction to it. -DF From griffith at wis.weizmann.ac.il Wed Oct 21 06:01:34 1998 From: griffith at wis.weizmann.ac.il (Tim Griffiths) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 21:01:34 +0800 Subject: UK police chase crooks on CCTV Message-ID: <362DD1B0.4EF8AE03@wis.weizmann.ac.il> The Associated Press via The Wash. Post, Oct 17, 1998 http://search.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/searches/mainsrch.htm#ap Chasing Crooks on Closed Circuit TV http://search.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WAPO/19981017/V000263-101798-idx .ht ml LONDON (AP) -- An ``intelligent'' computer system that uses closed circuit television to match faces in a crowd to mug shots of known criminals is likely to become London's latest weapon against crime. Scotland Yard and a local council have installed the $100,000 CCTV system on a trial basis in Newham, a poor district in London's East End. Newspapers reported Thursday that the computer system, called Mandrake, is linked to 144 CCTVs in Newham's shopping centers, railway stations and car parks and can scan up to 150 faces at a time and compare them with a database of criminals stored on a computer at the council's headquarters. If there is a match between a face in the crowd and a known criminal, the computer alerts a monitoring team in the town hall, who in turn alert the police. Civil liberties groups said they were alarmed by the new system, but police defended its use. ``The only people entered on to the system will be convicted criminals who, through our intelligence, we believe are habitually committing crimes in the area,'' The Daily Mail quoted police Chief Superintendent Dave Armond as saying. ``If people are not committing crime they have nothing to fear, but if they are among the small minority who are, the message is, 'We are watching out for you.''' The newspaper reported that police initially will use the system to concentrate on catching robbery suspects. In the future, however, it could be used to search crowds for hooligans who stir up trouble at soccer matches. CCTV's developer, Software and Systems International, says the system is accurate enough to discern people hiding behind make-up or eye glasses. And growing a beard won't help either, the company says. Britain has 150,000 close circuit television cameras. While most Britons appear happy the devices are being used to tackle crime, civil liberties groups oppose both the cameras and the facial matching. ``The accuracy of facial mapping like this is limited. You only need a handful of photographs of celebrities to see how different the same people can look in different pictures,'' the Mail quoted Liz Parratt, spokeswoman for Liberty, a civil rights group, as saying. ``Even if you did have a system which worked, it would have to be regulated very carefully to protect people's privacy.'' \ Copyright 1998 The Associated Press -- Tim Griffiths griffith at wis.weizmann.ac.il Center for Submicron Research http://tim01.ex.ac.uk Weizmann Institute of Science (972)-8-934-2736 Rehovot 76100 Israel PGP Public key available - finger tim at tim01.ex.ac.uk The real value lies not in what I say or do, but in your reaction to it. -DF From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Oct 21 06:40:13 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 21:40:13 +0800 Subject: UK police chase crooks on CCTV (fwd) Message-ID: <199810211322.IAA03036@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 14:21:04 +0200 > From: Tim Griffiths > Subject: UK police chase crooks on CCTV > Civil liberties groups said they were alarmed by the new system, but > police defended its use. > > ``The only people entered on to the system will be convicted criminals > who, through our intelligence, we believe are habitually committing > crimes in the area,'' The Daily Mail quoted police Chief Superintendent > Dave Armond as saying. ``If people are not committing crime they have > nothing to fear, but if they are among the small minority who are, the > message is, 'We are watching out for you.''' > > The newspaper reported that police initially will use the system to > concentrate on catching robbery suspects. In the future, however, it Excuse me.... Since when does 'suspected of' equate to 'convicted criminal'? Also, in order to wath you (sic) they have to watch everyone - in effect guilty until proven innocent by the computer software. What sort of civil recovery are provided for the inevitable software errors? I bet nadda, and that's wrong too. This is Big Brother Spin Doctor BULLSHIT. We need a law or court ruling pretty quickly in the US that sets the standard that a group of people have no more or less rights than an individual. This will required LEA's to provide probable cause prior to any actions against groups of people (such as this). If they can't audio tape me, or seize my papers and correspondences without a warrant then they bloody well can't video me without a warrant either ,within the context of criminal proceedings. Does anyone know if *any* PAC/SIG/whatever has this as their main political agenda? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On a similar note, here in Austin they are finishing up with putting hundreds of cameras around town. It isn't long before these sorts of social theory X'ers get their teeth in the shank of American society. We've got(!) to put a stop to this sort of stuff. The law should basicaly ok the use of cameras for vehicular traffic control (this does NOT include execution of speeding infractions and such), this means no police or other LEA's may be involved or view the tapes *without* a warrant. The operators and support personnel should be required to abide by a strict non-disclosure agreement as well. If they notice a wreck or whatever they should notify the relevant emergency personel and *IF* the police serve a warrent only then turn over the tape. This is a perfect example of why I, personaly, believe that a polycratic democracy is the only workable kind in the real world. The 'seperate but equal' doctrine should effect every aspect of a democratic society. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Oct 21 06:44:35 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 21:44:35 +0800 Subject: Women cannot commit rape? (fwd) Message-ID: <199810211325.IAA03084@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 14:19:57 +0200 > From: Tim Griffiths > Subject: Women cannot commit rape? > French Supreme Court rules that women cannot commit rape > "The material element of the crime of rape is only realized if the > perpetrator > commits the act of sexual penetration on the person of the victim," it > said in > its judgment. Can a man get a STD from a women? Do men not have the same civil liberties and concepts of personal privacy that women do? Are we now faced with the ultimate in sex discrimination - having two sets of laws that are specific to sex? Rape is about an invasion of personal physical privacy. More big brother spin doctor bullshit. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From brownrk1 at texaco.com Wed Oct 21 07:03:49 1998 From: brownrk1 at texaco.com (Brown, R Ken) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 22:03:49 +0800 Subject: UK police chase crooks on CCTV Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F8505@MSX11002> > Tim Griffiths[SMTP:griffith at wis.weizmann.ac.il] forwarded (yet > another) report on the Mandrake facial recognition system, this time > from http://search.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/searches/mainsrch.htm#ap > > [...snip...] > CCTV's developer, Software and Systems International, says > the system is accurate enough to discern people hiding > behind make-up or eye glasses. And growing a beard won't > help either, the company says. [...snip...] According to SSI at http://www.ssi-ltd.co.uk/latenews.htm#Law the program uses the position of facial features to recognise you. > Even if offenders try to disguise their appearance, > say S&SI, the system will still identify them, as it is > based on recognising facial structure, such as the > spacing between the eyes, nose and mouth. It takes > into account, and disregards, variations of head > orientation, lighting conditions, skin colour, > make-up, facial expression, facial hair, spectacles > and ageing. So presumably can be confused by obscuring the exact postion of features - such as a dense moustache that covers the mouth, or the presence or absence of a hairstyle that seems to change the shape of the head. I shave my head - if I grew back some "big hair", or wore a wig, would the sytem be able to tell where the top of my skull was? Maybe a full beard would change the apparent width of the whole head. Maybe dark glasses would obscure the exact position of the eyes. As we all know criminals are too stupid to use strong cryptography without an export license, there is no way any of them would think of novel high-tech solutions such as wearing a hat or a scarf. Just to add some irony, the main line used to sell this to the British public is control of football (soccer) "hooligans". Like child pornography or the "war on drugs", football fans are easy target for repressive measures. No respectable citizen wants to be associated with the "trouble makers". And of course, football fans are notorious for not wearing scarves or hats, aren't they :-) Ken Brown (& not his bosses) From nobody at privacy.nb.ca Wed Oct 21 08:29:10 1998 From: nobody at privacy.nb.ca (Joseph 'Anonymous' Howe) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 23:29:10 +0800 Subject: cypherpunks archives, books Message-ID: <199810211455.LAA25547@privacy.nb.ca> Could someone post the address of the current cypherpunks archives again? Everything seems to be missing or out of date. Also, what's the name of that book... The Crystal Palace? Maybe I'm confused. Thanks for the info. --THE LIE From howree at cable.navy.mil Wed Oct 21 09:12:46 1998 From: howree at cable.navy.mil (Reeza!) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 00:12:46 +0800 Subject: UK police chase crooks on CCTV In-Reply-To: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F8505@MSX11002> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981022012456.00848250@205.83.192.13> Just read Jim Choates reply to this, Ken Browns prompts my reply. Jim Brown mentioned the use of soccer hooligans to justify the widespread use of mounted cameras- and face matching software technology in the UK-, and how use of large sunglasses, hats, scarves, false mustaches or beards might complicate that identification. I would further add that, if knowing such implements were in use, or upon seeing such devices, some persons might be inclined to keep their face turned down, or away, to further complicate identification by such a system. This is what gets me. Is a government training its populace to walk about with face directed at the ground 5 feet in front of? To be afraid of holding the head upright? To dissuade noticing the guards patrolling the fence, to ignore the overt threat and implication this implies? Are we (they) really training a generation to fear authority, to cow to, and bow down to it without a fight? We are stationing some people in your house, to keep an eye on the suspected crack house across the street. OK. We are mounting a camera on the corner of your house, to keep an eye on the corner down the way- never mind that it can swivel 270 and watch everything in the neighborhood. OK. We are mounting a camera in your house, with microphones, because we have heard x and y and z. OK. Sheesh. It is enough to make a person paranoid, if s/he wasn't already. Reeza! Fear has a scent and Money has a color, but Stupid walks right up and slaps you in the face, Every time. -- me, I think. From nobody at replay.com Wed Oct 21 09:39:56 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 00:39:56 +0800 Subject: UK police chase crooks on CCTV In-Reply-To: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F8505@MSX11002> Message-ID: <199810211559.RAA22447@replay.com> >> ...the system...is based on recognising facial structure > Maybe a full beard would change the apparent width of the whole > head... You mean "When beards are outlawed, only outlaws will have beards." ? -- FuzzyMonger From mmotyka at lsil.com Wed Oct 21 10:26:55 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 01:26:55 +0800 Subject: UK police chase crooks on CCTV (fwd) Message-ID: <362E110F.30CA@lsil.com> The toys are just getting too easy to deploy. Imaging, compression, networking, mass storage etc...Fucking engineers, oops! A few fronts: Political - this is the preferable way of dealing with this crap but also the most disturbing because many of those in power seem to think snooping is a wonderful idea. Tough to convince them that a little uncertainty is a *good* thing. Technical: Briefcase-sized EMP - fun idea but I don't know how to make it workable. HV generator on the end of a stick - not too tough. High power LASER to burn out CCDs - buy anonymously, nice, works from a safe distance. What's needed are moles to leak detailed info on systems as they're planned and installed. Then it would be easy to determine the weak points. If each camera had to be guarded there would be a *huge* problem just keeping the systems alive. Mike From whgiii at invweb.net Wed Oct 21 11:21:13 1998 From: whgiii at invweb.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 02:21:13 +0800 Subject: UK police chase crooks on CCTV (fwd) In-Reply-To: <362E110F.30CA@lsil.com> Message-ID: <199810211803.NAA010.65@geiger.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <362E110F.30CA at lsil.com>, on 10/21/98 at 09:51 AM, Michael Motyka said: >The toys are just getting too easy to deploy. Imaging, compression, >networking, mass storage etc...Fucking engineers, oops! >A few fronts: >Political - this is the preferable way of dealing with this crap but also >the most disturbing because many of those in power seem to think snooping >is a wonderful idea. Tough to convince them that a little uncertainty is >a *good* thing. >Technical: >Briefcase-sized EMP - fun idea but I don't know how to make it workable. >HV generator on the end of a stick - not too tough. >High power LASER to burn out CCDs - buy anonymously, nice, works from a >safe distance. >What's needed are moles to leak detailed info on systems as they're >planned and installed. Then it would be easy to determine the weak >points. If each camera had to be guarded there would be a *huge* problem >just keeping the systems alive. Well probably the most effective way is to just take out the command and control center. Even this would only be temporary as the government would just keep spending more tax money to replace everything and add more security. What we need is a mechanism to punish the politicians who go down the Big Brother path *and* the companies who are making big profits helping them. IMHO the UK, and the rest of Europe, is a lost cause, it's sheeple are too brainwashed (FWIW the US is not far behind). The wall in Berlin did not come down because Communism is dead, it came down because the Communist were in control on both sides. :( - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.openpgp.net Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: Friends don't let friends use Windows. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNi4h4o9Co1n+aLhhAQGlUgQAr3oGl4sEuSmrVG5jq8kt9bQs/atT8zCS 03kn4/mkJ4MhYHKqx805lTQll/fVgdq7uePC6vDeJYnKHHRxXEiWDkX+KQz3IFdw ZnjEjCWlG249ZsrsSS+auB/LBgEYJRVNEgHIVvDVCsoSMLC8m3JVN3AUG7trLOG0 iwDz8Y3/kS8= =Jbv/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From sorens at workmail.com Wed Oct 21 11:41:42 1998 From: sorens at workmail.com (Soren) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 02:41:42 +0800 Subject: UK police chase crooks on CCTV (fwd) In-Reply-To: <362E110F.30CA@lsil.com> Message-ID: <362ECBF9.E7E50ED0@workmail.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 593 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sorens at workmail.com Wed Oct 21 11:55:51 1998 From: sorens at workmail.com (Soren) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 02:55:51 +0800 Subject: Separation of Socialism and State amendment In-Reply-To: <199810211803.NAA010.65@geiger.com> Message-ID: <362ECF7F.E5E00744@workmail.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1145 bytes Desc: not available URL: From concerned at aol.com Thu Oct 22 05:16:39 1998 From: concerned at aol.com (concerned at aol.com) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 05:16:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Y2K... Message-ID: <199810221216.FAA18413@toad.com> 10/22/98 Y2K Solution... 8 Pine Circle Dr., Silicon Valley, Calif. OTC Company "TCFG" 21 st. Century Frontier Group has through several members of their administrative research department leaked vital information about their companies efforts. Everyone was tight lipped and interviews were refused, and through un-named sources we have learned that the technology and software solution are in the process of being patented! In over 1640 trials, using various data systems the use of the new technology and software solved the Y2K problem 100% of the time. This small publicly traded company "TCFG" which is just 3 years old is through various sources now negotiating with the "Big Boys"! "TCFG" the letters to look for..... ---------------------------------------------------------------- From benefits at biztravel.com Thu Oct 22 07:46:22 1998 From: benefits at biztravel.com (Member Benefits) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 07:46:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Biztravel.com Free $50 Gift Message-ID: <362E517D.6A64099C@biztravel.com> Dear Biztravel.com member, I'd like to remind you that the incredible $50 gift offer we told you about last month expires on 10/31/98. 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To modify your membership preferences, go to . ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl Wed Oct 21 17:57:19 1998 From: nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl (HyperReal-Anon) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 08:57:19 +0800 Subject: The Trouble With Harry Message-ID: <3240b953a758fc51b6540fd49f3a5618@anonymous> John Young : >Can you tell more about the lack of support from Austin cpunks, >any change, or are you left to fend for yourself? tis is why i am not a cypherpunk. you people have no care for your fellow man! first jim bell, then toto, now choate, soon youll all be gone.... From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Oct 21 18:08:55 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:08:55 +0800 Subject: The Trouble With Harry (fwd) Message-ID: <199810220056.TAA05317@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: 22 Oct 1998 00:20:03 -0000 > From: HyperReal-Anon > Subject: The Trouble With Harry > John Young : > > >Can you tell more about the lack of support from Austin cpunks, > >any change, or are you left to fend for yourself? > > tis is why i am not a cypherpunk. you people have > no care for your fellow man! first jim bell, then > toto, now choate, soon youll all be gone.... Hold on hear a second, let's get the facts straight. I am NOT being accussed of anything. I have been asked to act as a witness for the prosecution (not explicitly the target thereof). Unfortunately for the prosecutions case, I'm not a witness to anything relevant. If I were aware of some kook running around building bombs with the intention of using them on people, their property, or animals I'd be the first to turn their nutty butts in. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody at privacy.nb.ca Wed Oct 21 18:27:23 1998 From: nobody at privacy.nb.ca (Joseph 'Anonymous' Howe) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:27:23 +0800 Subject: The latest news from Toto Message-ID: <199810220055.VAA32173@privacy.nb.ca> I got a letter from Toto today, and he's doing well. Or at least as well as one can under his circumstances. He has a few friendly requests, though, which I'm not necessarily in any position to respond to. * Does anyone have an RSA-in-perl t-shirt (or sweatshirt, or whatever) to spare? He wants the Well Dressed CypherPunk Defendant Look (TM) in court. * Declan McCullagh: Congratulations, you've been added to the visitors' list. * Oh, yeah! If someone could mail me copies of the FPP stuff, it would be nice, since the Shrink Rapper has copies and I don't. (The IRS is sending it to him as part of his punishment for laughing at my jokes...) If anyone knows what he's referring to, reply to the cpunks list and I'll get in touch personally, or just mail it to him directly. MailMonger From gomes at www.navigo.com Wed Oct 21 20:31:35 1998 From: gomes at www.navigo.com (Carlos Macedo Gomes) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 11:31:35 +0800 Subject: FW: rules of engagement (fwd) Message-ID: > From: Adam Back [SMTP:aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk] > Clearly I think one should be able to say wtf one wants to, and in > general I endeavor to do just that. But I am suggesting that > cypherpunks individually stear clear of grey areas, such as say > creative tax minimisation, Duncan Frissel style "it's not illegal to > do blah with social security numbers", Tim May style "I've got X > number of now illegal armament Y", (unless you also have the money for > good lawyers) and so on, whether technically legal or not, as one > would be taking above average risks in doing so, because governments > are watching this list, and a number of it's subscribers. I agree with Adam on sticking to legally achievable goals-- or at least legally achievable without needing unlimited funds to feed the army of lawyers that will be needed to keep you and your cohorts out of prison. To me that would include the realm of projects related to strong crypto, electronic cash, anonymity and privacy-- vague as those topics may be. That said... I was at the meeting in July with Jim when Toto showed up. It was my first attendance at an Austin Cpunk meeting and I was looking forward to working on some great projects with some hopefully great local folks. To me Toto showing up was simply a very interesting road sign (or graffiti) on the path to achieving pragmatic, long-living "cypherpunks write code" projects the first of which was to be the Crypto Conference that we were hoping to host and that we were discussing at that meeting with members of EF Texas. BTW: Whatever happended to the Classified Ad project?? Jim fought for that but it fell apart when the focus of the conference was was moved by another local group to a non-crypto topic. We took the synergies from the remains of conference project and started work on a Cypherpunks meta-web-archive this time with a joint effort by myself, some fellow programmers and the Austin Cpunks. This project as well started strong out of the gates but lost steam around the first corner. In part it was due to looming, work related project deadlines-- as far as I know none involved in the local projects are retired, Austin hitech fatcats (yet). But mostly this last project and the local meetings halted I think due to Jim's relating to the group the events that were happening with him regarding Toto. I think the really sad thing here is not that we didn't rise up as a group to stop the government's inquiries of Jim with regards to the Toto case but simply that we individually offered very limited support directly to Jim himself. And from speaking with Jim and reading his emails it appears that the support was in the form of a referral to lawyers (who apparently were not ready to do any _pro bono_ work) and an apology from myself for lack of offer of assistance when it became obvious to me that the long standing local group had not offered assistance. I think Jim did a great job with the local group and it's truly a sad indictment against the relationships we had (or thought we had) in the group where our "sponsor" is put in a spotlight for acting as a primary for the group that we're supposedly active in and there's no show of support... Again, not with intent to support Toto, or thwart government inquiries, but just to check to see how Jim's doing under the strain of possible government scrutiny. Anyhow the local group does look to be dead. I'd still like to get group coding projects and the like accomplished while I'm in Austin and suspect they will still happen and hopefully with Jim and some of the other local folks involved. But I don't think there will be an "Austin Cpunk" group after this. I'd be glad to have someone prove me wrong. That's my $0.02 on the events of the past few months.... Now back to reality. waves, C.G. -- Carlos Macedo Gomes gomes at navigo.com a Navigo farmer From k-elliott at wiu.edu Wed Oct 21 21:11:39 1998 From: k-elliott at wiu.edu (Kevin Elliott) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:11:39 +0800 Subject: Women cannot commit rape? Message-ID: >French Supreme Court rules that women cannot commit rape > >Copyright � 1998 Nando.net >Copyright � 1998 Reuters News Service > >PARIS (October 21, 1998 06:38 a.m. EDT http://www.nandotimes.com) - >France's >Supreme Court ruled on Wednesday that women are unable to commit the >crime of >rape because they cannot sexually penetrate men. This is true in the United States as well. That's why in every state, technically speaking, their is no crime of "rape" just varying degrees and types of "criminal sexual assault". I'm suprised that hasn't trickled down to france yet. Rape is defined as forcing someone to have sexual intercourse. It doesn't take much imagination to build an argument that you can't force a man to have sex, after all he had to get aroused. The advantage of criminal sexual assualt is that it side steps these kind of issues by greatly broadening the crime to basicly forcing/manipulating someone to engae in any kind of sexual activity. ___________________________________________________________________________ "DOS/WIN based computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq, Tandy, and millions of others, are by far the most popular, with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans, on the other hand, note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans, and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form." - New York Times -Kevin "The Cubbie" Elliott From rah at shipwright.com Wed Oct 21 21:14:42 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:14:42 +0800 Subject: The latest news from Toto In-Reply-To: <199810220055.VAA32173@privacy.nb.ca> Message-ID: At 8:55 PM -0400 on 10/21/98, Joseph 'Anonymous' Howe wrote: > * Declan McCullagh: Congratulations, you've been added to the visitors' > list. Walk softly and carry a big printing press, Declan. God speed. Cheers, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Oct 21 21:23:54 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:23:54 +0800 Subject: Women cannot commit rape? (fwd) Message-ID: <199810220410.XAA05986@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 22:50:50 -0500 > From: Kevin Elliott > Subject: Re: Women cannot commit rape? > This is true in the United States as well. That's why in every state, I don't believe that is accurate. Just about 2 years ago two women were sentenced to prison because they kidnapped and raped a man. Perhaps one of the more versed in case law members might remember it. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Oct 21 21:55:52 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:55:52 +0800 Subject: FW: rules of engagement (fwd) Message-ID: <199810220438.XAA06083@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 22:47:40 -0500 (CDT) > From: Carlos Macedo Gomes > Subject: FW: rules of engagement (fwd) > discussing at that meeting with members of EF Texas. BTW: Whatever > happended to the Classified Ad project?? It was going along fine until I made the mistake of asking when.... I'd offered a couple of dates, nobody ever commented on them. I can still cover Austin, Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Fort Worth, El Paso. A single paper in each city. I'd say do it like Thanksgiving Day or Christmas. I need 1 months warning. It might be kind of cool to put regular ads in with various comments like the 1st Amendment, or questions regarding civil liberties, famous quotes, etc. Just sign it, Cypherpunks ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From KSanchez498 at msn.com Thu Oct 22 13:21:38 1998 From: KSanchez498 at msn.com (KSanchez498 at msn.com) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 13:21:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: WHAT DO YOU LOOK LIKE??? 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From rir at atnet.at Thu Oct 22 15:43:03 1998 From: rir at atnet.at (rir at atnet.at) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:43:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: RELEASED 10/15/98! VOL. 2 Message-ID: <011328705550122442@ls_flancygerm.com> PRESS RELEASE 10/15/98 INTRODUCING...THE CD VOL. 2 The CD - Vol. 2, is the absolute best product of its' kind anywhere in the world today. There are no other products anywhere that can compete with the quality of this product. We took a total of over 190 million email addresses from many of the touted CD's that are out there (bought them all - some were $300+)! We added the millions we had in storage to those. When we combined them all, we had in excess of 300+ million addresses in one huge file. We ran a super "sort/de-dupe" program against this huge list. It cut the file down to less than 20 million!!! Can you believe that? It seems that most people that are selling CD's are duping the public by putting numerous files of addresses in the CD over and over. 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I would like to order MILLIONS Vol. 2 email addresses for only $200.00. *Please select one of the following for shipping.. ____I would like to receive my package OVERNIGHT. I'm including $15 for shipping. (outside US add an additional $25 for shipping) ____I would like to receive my package 2 DAY delivery. I'm including $10 for shipping. (outside US add an additional $25 for shipping) DATE_____________________________________________________ NAME____________________________________________________ COMPANY NAME___________________________________________ ADDRESS_________________________________________________ CITY, STATE, ZIP___________________________________________ PHONE NUMBERS__________________________________________ FAX NUMBERS_____________________________________________ EMAIL ADDRESS___________________________________________ TYPE OF CREDIT CARD: ______VISA _____MASTERCARD CREDIT CARD# __________________________________________ EXPIRATION DATE________________________________________ NAME ON CARD___________________________________________ AMOUNT $____________________ (Required) SIGNATURE:x________________________ DATE:x__________________ You may fax your order to us at: 1-212-504-8192 CHECK BY FAX SERVICES! If you would like to fax a check, paste your check below and fax it to our office along with all forms to: 1-212-504-8192 ****************************************************** ***24 HOUR FAX SERVICES*** PLEASE PASTE YOUR CHECK HERE AND FAX IT TO US AT 1-212-504-8192 ******************************************************* If You fax a check, there is no need for you to send the original check. We will draft up a new check, with the exact information from your original check. All checks will be held for bank clearance. (7-10 days) Make payable to: "GD Publishing" From brownrk1 at texaco.com Thu Oct 22 03:25:50 1998 From: brownrk1 at texaco.com (Brown, R Ken) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:25:50 +0800 Subject: UK police chase crooks on CCTV (fwd) Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F850A@MSX11002> > William H. Geiger III[SMTP:whgiii at invweb.net] wrote (among other > stuff): > > > What we need is a mechanism to punish the politicians > who go down the Big Brother path *and* the companies > who are making big profits helping them. > IMHO the UK, and the rest of Europe, is a lost cause, > it's sheeple are too brainwashed The best bit of news of the last few days is Pinochet's arrest. It lifted my heart. Almost made up for the all the bad stuff the UK government has been coming out with. (Also it brought Thatcher out of the woodwork. Like a large segment of the British Tory party she really is/was an authoritarian, paying lip-service to the Free Market for political reasons. You can tell them by the company they keep.) From tdsmith at phoenix.Princeton.EDU Thu Oct 22 03:36:34 1998 From: tdsmith at phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Tanya D. Smith) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:36:34 +0800 Subject: Recent biometrics discussion Message-ID: Hi, A member told me about the discussion of biometrics going on recently. I'm doing a research project on biometrics and would be really interested in reading through those postings. Could someone please point me to the archive where I can find recent postings about biometrics? Thanks. Tanya -- Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous! Do not tremble or be dismayed, for the Lord your God is with you wherever you go. Josh. 1:9 From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Thu Oct 22 04:08:26 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 19:08:26 +0800 Subject: The latest news from Toto In-Reply-To: <199810220055.VAA32173@privacy.nb.ca> Message-ID: <199810220821.JAA22656@server.eternity.org> MailMonger forwards Toto's request: > I got a letter from Toto today, and he's doing well. Or at least as well > as one can under his circumstances. > > He has a few friendly requests, though, which I'm not necessarily in any > position to respond to. > > * Does anyone have an RSA-in-perl t-shirt (or sweatshirt, or whatever) > to spare? He wants the Well Dressed CypherPunk Defendant Look (TM) in > court. What size would he like, where would he like it sent to (or should one of his visitors hand it to him to increase his chances of getting it?). Sweatshirt or t-shirt? Adam (This month's key:) Type Bits/KeyID Date User ID pub 2048/2E17753D 1998/10/04 Adam Back (FS key, Oct 98) -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.3i mQENAzYXjq0AAAEIALVr4nBhPNtqtAsXbjrJg4crJ3CllDZfRi/cTdpFd6T6y4UE FnKrKy+Vth81kLJ3MorE35dwuMzyDne+vP7XA3pyfUiFU2P4/q625gQ6Yxio6BUh M/qUoap/4gK60i7BOP2dfJy2WwhfOU2RS9HdMJ6ERjrzdCJv5Z7UXYJmUvWa08xk C55yL6NtFdRgVVPgMPO1kz6zoSVDqOHrmmXR22dBrRhJAUld9+yH2SvNwAY5j5sQ dVdD1hK+8JNXQx3HbZoZpz7ZW/nmEjyjBvV7kktKgRAxQwHZ9ijchvcoTPNKZK/l NIq35t4oO+RIx572OWfdH34j/OkrgKcBxy4XdT0ABRO0LUFkYW0gQmFjayA8YWJh QGRjcy5leC5hYy51az4gKEZTIGtleSwgT2N0IDk4KYkBFQMFEDYXjuQ+e8qoKLJF UQEBRrQIAKVSMd5s/osd8dCGoGYvyuHBOpUFZQSMREtQw/0/Z34uNNUBRnXSGeAS LjZd9BHu9CebqJMaFWjtCCe7DU+JljxfSvD7CwsBdt56aZz2vwl9rxJR9lwBnAwM twlJcOxfzVgHL+NL4VG0ukT1hQMqrkZts/0t+LzV3ulgVwis7w4/MATzLZZU/i4W wAGhOB2Q9HD0Rh2uBe/ktB/ndJQF+uxNRxcY8PyK9Q3oFztl5DMu1ue4mOH3iOJH u2OOQzQeJ0kCn4r3eCR1bOqlGyEeOJMVs54/eAOHQPXiqHIsZ76zujNL5kxx5JNw U/KL71KTUwwDwPJpyV2gVCUa+or0YTE= =S4OD -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- From nobody at remailer.ch Thu Oct 22 07:57:03 1998 From: nobody at remailer.ch (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:57:03 +0800 Subject: Women cannot commit rape? Message-ID: <19981022143445.16361.qmail@hades.rpini.com> >This is true in the United States as well. That's why in every state, >technically speaking, their is no crime of "rape" just varying degrees and >types of "criminal sexual assault". I'm suprised that hasn't trickled down >to france yet. Rape is defined as forcing someone to have sexual >intercourse. It doesn't take much imagination to build an argument that >you can't force a man to have sex, after all he had to get aroused. The >advantage of criminal sexual assualt is that it side steps these kind of >issues by greatly broadening the crime to basicly forcing/manipulating >someone to engae in any kind of sexual activity. "You get hard right now or I take this knife and cut your balls off sloooowly! You have one minute." That is probably out in left field. I doubt it would happen much. From stuffed at stuffed.net Thu Oct 22 22:58:51 1998 From: stuffed at stuffed.net (STUFFED THU OCT 22) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:58:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY! Message-ID: <19981022071000.4036.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com> + 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS + 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES + LORI'S ABSOLUTE SEX + EASY TO PLEASE LEWINSKI + ONLY EROTICA + XXXPOSE + GALLERY XXX + CENTERFOLD GIRLS + FANTASY HOUSEWIFE GANGBANG + PANTIES & LACE + DANIELLE'S DEN + XXX ASIAN SLUTS + BONUS PIC 1 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/18872.htm + BONUS PIC 2 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/10632.htm + BONUS PIC 3 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/26595.htm + BONUS PIC 4 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/28032.htm + BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/13712.htm + MUCH, MUCH MORE! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- If you haven't visited STUFFED in the last few days, you're in for a real treat. It's faster than ever before and now, as a subscriber, you get 35 FREE new pics every day, plus over 100 more at carefully selected FREE sites we link to. This email is never sent unsolicited. Stuffed is the supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full instructions on unsubscribing are in every issue of Eureka! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- From nobody at replay.com Thu Oct 22 08:17:08 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 23:17:08 +0800 Subject: dbts: The Economic Cause of Privacy Message-ID: <199810221225.OAA21798@replay.com> >Remember, the reason we have no financial privacy these days is because we >have book-entry settlement, which relies on biometric identity, known physical >location, and the force of a nation state as the ultimate "error-handler" to >prevent repudiation in the transaction protocol. Yes, and cars break down because there are service shops. Utter nonsense. There is no financial privacy because because those who would like such thing have less power (hired guns) than those who would not like it. And those with controlling interests in modern societies do not like it because control would be lost, and population harvesting (aka taxing) would have to be radically changed, and that is expensive. The system is self-supporting. Idea that somehow smart algorithms will bring financial privacy is a good starting point for cryptoaddict's wet dream, but in reality has the same chance of success as survival rate of armed citizens against the government. Zero. (However, brandishing weapons and algorithms may alleviate some acute distress caused by excess testosterone levels :) Use of government-controlled, issued and supervised payment methods/instruments is in place because it is proscribed, not because "money/checks, etc. exist". Money is a highly artificial entity in the first place. It is "natural" to use currency-binded valuation as it is natural to go to church. And theorizing on money and economy in general has similarities to religious rituals. Therefore constructing computer-assisted anon payment schemes "because it is cheaper that way" is pointless. Money is not there to make your life easier. Money exists so that you can be taxed and conditioned to desired behaviour at minimal cost. Anonymous payments defy the principal reason money exists for, and is sanctioned (and enforced) by the state. The only way for society (or loosely coupled individuals) to function without abstractions like money (that need organized gun power to maintain) is direct exchange of goods and services with enforcement based on close relationships between parties. Has been tried, several thousand years ago, and such societies were annihilated by others who did organize. Which seems to be the fate of any anarchism in general. Barnmen From jya at pipeline.com Thu Oct 22 08:42:27 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 23:42:27 +0800 Subject: NSA Info Sought Message-ID: <199810221447.KAA15188@camel7.mindspring.com> An international television corporation seeks current or former National Security Agency employees and/or military members willing to provide information on the NSA base at Menwith Hill, England, and other operations of the US's global electronic surveillance and interception program. E-Mail: jy at jya.com JYA/Urban Deadline 251 West 89th Street, Suite 6E New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-873-8700 Fax: 212-799-4003 Anonymous and encrypted messages welcome. -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.5.2 for non-commercial use mQGiBDUT1GoRBAD96qrjqMjIZK30XrvsEgsDssidjh4gjxoM3XZwYvjuNqohFUYC W6ktcjtHkITXeCP0leprRByF4LIZZp75JrR/FODnpELnTQwzQ03kD/OTRBl+m2ED /3N4T29KwwKdvEvfoKgJ8UYrAb4nS5F7W26kiKAIslpIIKBSdMCWszoBRwCg/ydS 4PuvY6YJMbHc3Ir0OpW9NZ8EANM9K1c7OKDOQEriJOtYqlwd//qKP2GQLvq7Kdel /fjZRKBDW3vRRJZvNkTpMN44eRz2wJxuQh1Jjqj/RWO7+KkeJF1ftVhWcC3kzmBa 7HX2CXmFX2Y+/Fqk1nyzDh2hD5nDidYS4uDMgNfAKs8WBVqWY9l9rHmX3LvoKIUP WYGWBADFmYF5n+6LMwnrEWJb3/G/LPTz8bupjZAX3pk7JAysJjwet1ZRfN356RuF 8p4ia4BY8evpmwG0ICW0skrzPf6EelOGef7RpQN+4CSTHaF2lsMe4PFfQSI9c7lP vGG74byiiR7V9BpWR6yhsB18FZhrCXkp44HQTFEbqbDbKwB3krQdSm9obiBZb3Vu ZyA8anlhQHBpcGVsaW5lLmNvbT6JAEsEEBECAAsFAjUT1GoECwMCAQAKCRCDRF/O eTbvYJ2pAJ0cPHIxXi8h0tbgWOH9NgPof7uH7QCfee3M2/PHjS59s5KTLHi1qrHu O+m5Ag0ENRPUaxAIAPZCV7cIfwgXcqK61qlC8wXo+VMROU+28W65Szgg2gGnVqMU 6Y9AVfPQB8bLQ6mUrfdMZIZJ+AyDvWXpF9Sh01D49Vlf3HZSTz09jdvOmeFXklnN /biudE/F/Ha8g8VHMGHOfMlm/xX5u/2RXscBqtNbno2gpXI61Brwv0YAWCvl9Ij9 WE5J280gtJ3kkQc2azNsOA1FHQ98iLMcfFstjvbzySPAQ/ClWxiNjrtVjLhdONM0 /XwXV0OjHRhs3jMhLLUq/zzhsSlAGBGNfISnCnLWhsQDGcgHKXrKlQzZlp+r0ApQ mwJG0wg9ZqRdQZ+cfL2JSyIZJrqrol7DVekyCzsAAgIIANDxYVQYe4ZXIS8pYMT5 RyCM1IH8Zl2D29Dem3DpaR8nIaaV7S3MqtQ78m0dH2ae5GeyVEmNl1Hbr0N2SHzi tmAMHqU2wriYsWuczFO+55Qman924+0LHJTykpj6LIzs7C426hkj23nuDc4m4y4n p8wCLg8f4ySWwDHdFNgydRwcgC6M8Z5HqFeCsUFX5KPbZjxmMyD+jzoeKSKtju4D MqTMvbotVDycnjB4P2aXEas1iie4irlgB/bNsQCFQY3KdTJsCkb70KwaK+eAzo5Y iXXREZqK9XsIR65AG5B6jenwziwrTEirCtqDs4gqBt54X/IeKIjJDIYwTmUyxIcW GK2JAEYEGBECAAYFAjUT1GsACgkQg0Rfznk272D76gCg/LOtMsq7I0NnuEp3qr/I qKmOJngAoNPsyKKflQrPkA6LAJfFXVRmRSdx =KgPx -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- From Theodor.SCHLICKMANN at BXL.DG13.cec.be Thu Oct 22 09:09:25 1998 From: Theodor.SCHLICKMANN at BXL.DG13.cec.be (Theodor.SCHLICKMANN at BXL.DG13.cec.be) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 00:09:25 +0800 Subject: We spy for you Message-ID: http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/middle.phtml?channel=netzwelt&rub=02&cont=themen/datenschutz_schoen.html From Theodor.SCHLICKMANN at BXL.DG13.cec.be Thu Oct 22 09:16:27 1998 From: Theodor.SCHLICKMANN at BXL.DG13.cec.be (Theodor.SCHLICKMANN at BXL.DG13.cec.be) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 00:16:27 +0800 Subject: "We have to destroy privacy in order to protect privacy" Message-ID: Slogan in the Subject used by Tim May. http://www.metromail.com/ sold for 845 Mio $. business: collecting and selling personal data from open sources. T. Schlickmann From mmotyka at lsil.com Thu Oct 22 10:38:47 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 01:38:47 +0800 Subject: PRNGs and testers. Message-ID: <362F6571.1F81@lsil.com> >Hi, > > A few questions on Pseudo Random Number Generators... > > 1. Which are the best software PRNG's available today? > > 2. Are there any software implementations to test the randomness of a > PRNG ? I've looked at Diehard - is there anything else? > I found Bruce Schneier's paper on PRNGs at http://www.counterpane.com somewhat eye-opening. From hua at teralogic-inc.com Thu Oct 22 12:13:29 1998 From: hua at teralogic-inc.com (Ernest Hua) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 03:13:29 +0800 Subject: NOW! Talk of the Nation is discussing lack of reporting of certain news topics Message-ID: <00d001bdfdeb$1979da80$4164a8c0@mve21> Please try to call in between 12:00 and 1:00pm Pacific time to Talk of the Nation (1-800-989-TALK [8255]) to ask to talk about the lack of reporting on the EU's scuttled discussion of Echelon and NSA/FBI world wide spying! Ern From phelix at vallnet.com Thu Oct 22 12:18:11 1998 From: phelix at vallnet.com (phelix at vallnet.com) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 03:18:11 +0800 Subject: Women cannot commit rape? In-Reply-To: <19981022143445.16361.qmail@hades.rpini.com> Message-ID: <36307e3d.48462966@news> On 22 Oct 1998 13:13:39 -0500, Anonymous wrote: >>This is true in the United States as well. That's why in every state, >>technically speaking, their is no crime of "rape" just varying degrees and >>types of "criminal sexual assault". I'm suprised that hasn't trickled down >>to france yet. Rape is defined as forcing someone to have sexual >>intercourse. It doesn't take much imagination to build an argument that >>you can't force a man to have sex, after all he had to get aroused. The >>advantage of criminal sexual assualt is that it side steps these kind of >>issues by greatly broadening the crime to basicly forcing/manipulating >>someone to engae in any kind of sexual activity. > >"You get hard right now or I take this knife and cut your balls off >sloooowly! You have one minute." > >That is probably out in left field. I doubt it would happen much. How about force feeding him a bottle of viagra. That might do it. -- Phelix From mmotyka at lsil.com Thu Oct 22 12:49:45 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 03:49:45 +0800 Subject: IP: Fwd: Evaluation of Vehicle Stopping Prototype ("Kill Switch") Message-ID: <362F83C1.5929@lsil.com> Kevin, Like it or not our society needs a police force. They have a dangerous and difficult job and I would never contend that the they should risk their lives unnecessarily. Furthermore, the 'suspect's' behavior is not defensible. But anyone who classifies a DOG as a HUMAN is DANGEROUS to other humans. > Definitely manslaughter, probably 2nd or even 1st degree murder. In That's FUCKING NUTS. Take the word manslaughter apart. int Screwball_Disney_Justice( int victim ){ int penalty; switch ( victim ){ case DOG : case MAN : penalty = ( MAX_PENALTY | BANKRUPTCY ); break; default : // covers consentual violations penalty = BANKRUPTCY; break; } return penalty; } > (I believe) every state the union the penalty for shooting a police > dog is the same as shooting an on duty police officer. Police dogs > are effectively classified as deputies. There are so many damn laws that anyone can be destroyed whenever the powers that be decide they're inconvenient. So you think a human should go to the gas chamber for killing a dog? Has the constitutionality of this been tested in any recent cases? What about the punishment fitting the crime? A few thousand bucks for a dog vs. a human life? I like animals and I think they should be treated with some respect but they are not people. My opinion of the incident was formed by the treating of a dog as human and the human as animal. BTW - what is your opinion of recent proposed laws banning the use of horses and dogs as food? A) Common sense. B) How could you eat such nice, smart animals? C) Tyranny of the Disneyfied majority. D) Total Bullshit. E) Both C and D. IMHO - E. What about cockfights? It usually lasts about 5-15 seconds and the loser becomes lunch. There is no *significant* difference between buying the chicken at the grocery and a cockfight. If you say that the difference is one of enjoying the violence - grow up. Just because the violence on the grocery store shelf is individually wrapped for your convenience doesn't alter its nature. Maybe we need a new law - a license to eat meat. Anyone who doesn't go through a course on killing their own meat should not be issued a carnivore permit with different stamps for different animal foods. Before you write the rant off as rambling crap the theme is - moronic personification and lack of perspective. Fuck Walt Disney - Because he's been fucking with our heads for decades. Every girl a princess, every boy a prince, every creature a human soul trapped in an animal's body. Mike rant, rant, rant... From ulf at fitug.de Thu Oct 22 13:14:40 1998 From: ulf at fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 04:14:40 +0800 Subject: The latest news from Toto In-Reply-To: <199810220055.VAA32173@privacy.nb.ca> Message-ID: <19981022211139.39659@ulf.mali.sub.org> > * Oh, yeah! If someone could mail me copies of the FPP stuff, it would be > nice, since the Shrink Rapper has copies and I don't. (The IRS is sending > it to him as part of his punishment for laughing at my jokes...) > > If anyone knows what he's referring to, reply to the cpunks list and I'll > get in touch personally, or just mail it to him directly. Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 23:30:09 +0200 Message-Id: <199809252130.XAA24262 at replay.com> From: Anonymous To: cypherpunks at toad.com Flowers for Alger Anon - FPP#3 The two youths ducked quickly behind a tree to avoid being spotted by the senile old fart who had finally given up on finding his shoes and climbed barefoot up the step-ladder to begin drilling out the cannon muzzle on the War Surplus Army Tank he had recently acquired. As he labored he mumbled grouchily to himself about how he was going to "show that Commie Bastard, Igor", and all of the other former residents of The Home(TM) what he thought of their efforts to take over "his" CypherPunks Mailing List. "Distributed, my ass!" the old fart scowled as he climbed down the ladder, then grinned madly as he patted the stack of shells sitting next to the tank. "I'll distribute those bastards...They should'a Checked The Archives", he said, pausing to scratch his head and add, "TradeMark". Then continuing, "before they fucked with me. Then they'da seen how I ChopChopped them Torah- Torah Bastards when they tried to muscle in on my list." "It's 'mine'!" the grouchy, paranoid old fart shouted, turning his head around quickly in all directions, as if challenging, and half-expecting, Unseen Beings to dispute his claim. The two youngsters ducked and tried not to giggle as they ran down the hill, finally collapsing on the dirt road near the bottom and venting their laughter. Tim C. May was the most hilarious of the Cypher Punks they'd investigated so far, but 'all' of the CPUNX were "more than suitable", as Carol Anne Cypherpunk had declared while they were evaluating Jim Choate, "for slicing and buttering, and placing on a tray of Christmas snacks." Blanc Weber had agreed heartily with the new coconspirator (sometimes spelled with a hyphen), in their 'Quest to Question Anonymity', as the Army o' Dog-Bitch Battallion Warrior Godesses, as they had proclaimed them- selves, had Code Named their Chosen Mission From Dog. Carol Anne, choosing Androgyny over Anonymity, changed her name to Carroll for The Mission, vowing to balance the Tao by taking on any tasks requiring "male energy", which, on a CypherPunks Mission From Dog(TM), Carroll stated with a straight face, might include "blowing Dimitri". The Girls(Maybe) split a gut laughing over Blanc's reply that, being of a more peaceful nature than the 'Nuke DC Clique', they might have to "blow" their way out of dangerous situations by the use of Soft Targets rather than with Heavy Weaponry. Then they decided to get serious, before they, too, became candidates for The Home. Blanc Weber, a veteran Cypher Punk Cult of One Neophyte(TM) had felt slighted when the Author, a relative newcomer to the CPUNX list (at least under his 'TOTO' persona), had chosen to initiate two male Cypher Punks, Back and McCrackin, into his 3-Entity Circle of Eunuchs Gorilla Cell, instead of including Blanc, who had established a fairly close rapport with TOTO in their private email exchanges. Even more to Blanc's surprise, disappointment, and suspicion, TOTO failed to respond even to her offer to engage in joint Army of Dog Maneuvers with him across various Electronic Boundaries of the InterNet. She had begun to suspect that TOTO's lack of response to her Digital Warrior overtures were the result of something more sinister than simple male chauvinism. Her suspicions were confirmed when she caught up with TOTO, using his CJ Parker alias, at Defcon 6.0, as he was Pontificating, under the guise of 'Chief Cypher Punks Spokes Person', on the 'Anonymizer', for a guillible group of young hackers. "It is run by a HedgeHog riding Lance's Coat Tails, since Lance invented that thing that hangs on the back of toilet bowls, and the Anonymizer is the Blue Thing that hangs on the back of the hard drive. Blanc, stunned that TOTO, who claimed to be the Author, was a Total Fucking Moron (TM), listened as he continued . "The Anonymizer prevents Peeping TOMS from being able to tell whose hairy dick is making a bad smell on the carpet of the recipient's computer, after No Mail from NoBody comes out of the Email Chutechute. Blanc realized that CJ Parker was also a Total Fucking Lunatic(TM) as he glanced furtively around to whisper a dire warning to the spellbound young hackers hanging on his everyword. "And the Peeping Toms are everywhere. "As a matter of fact", he added glancing quickly over both shoulders, "when you can't see them at all..." he paused for effect, "...then you know that they're 'good'". "Real good", he added, turning to direct his wild-eyed stare at Blanc, who had just finished going through his knapsack while he was distracted. Blanc had hurried away, deeply disturbed by what she had found in TOTO's bag. It wasn't just stationery from The Home--it was 'personalized' stationery from The Home for the Criminally Insane. Blanc Weber's confusion and suspicions deepened when her attempts to warn other CPUNKS about TOTO were ignored by all except the few apparent females on the list, such as Carol Anne Cypherpunk and World Renowned Bottle Collector Lynn Harrison (who was long rumored to have joined the male-dominated mailing list only as a forum to trade her panties to young CPUNX in the throbbing throes of puberty, in return for the Standard Issue Klien Bottles, they received upon joining the Digital Anarchist Union, Local 01, rumored to be headquartered in Bienfait, Saskatchewan). When The Girls(Maybe) of the Bitch Battallion took to the road to investigate the remaining CypherPunks, they quickly discovered that 'all' of the verifiable Meat Space Personalities they positively linked to the various Cyperpunks Consistent Net Personas (TM) were, in fact, certifiably Cuckoo Cock Suckers(TM) in MeatSpace Reality. With the only readily apparent link between them being their connection to the Home for the Criminally Insane. Some of the MeatSpace Personalities behind the Digital Personas on the CPUNX Mailing List--Ian Goldberg, Alec de Jeune, Ulf Moeller, Peter Trei and Jim Choate--were Highly Social Sociopaths, capable of putting ona suit and tie, if need be, and glad-handing business people and purchasing agents (all the while slitting their sleeping throats, in the Dark Corners of their mind). John Gilmore, Declan McCullagh, Robert Hettinga, Vin McClellan, even Froomkin--all of the Mainstream Dream/Actively Connected To Society/Cypherpunks MeatSpace Verifiable Identities, without fail, shared the same connection to The Home as id the Lithium Dream/Social Outcast CPUNX Meatballs such as T.C. May, A.T. Hun, Wm Geiger III, S. Sequencr, JYA, and the late Dale Thorn (whose mysterious death was rumored to be the work of the Shadowy Figures(TM) lurking behind the ctrl-alt-delete.com website). Blanc and Carroll watched in total amazement as Jim Choate's ludicrous/inane computer and business theories seemed to be somehow transformed, by unseen hands working behind the scenes, into fully functional and viable RealWorld(TM) concepts, in Choate's work with the Armadillo Group. The Unseen Hands made The Girls(Maybe) very, very nervous. What pushed the Army of Dog-Bitch Battalion Warrior Godesses beyond nervousness, toward Paranoia & Fear, was the fact that the MeatSpace Personalities behind the Digital Personas of the CypherPunks inevitably appeared to be verifiable outside of The Home 'only after the CPUNKS PERSONA'S original appearance on the mailing list'. A Cloaked Anonymous Random Source(TM) that The Girls(Maybe) knew only as Digital Throat, speaking to Larynx in an UnderGround Reptilian Nazi Parking Garage in DC (after having been fooled into believing she was talking to Defcon McCullagh Chain Saw). told them, "I was the head of the Personelle Department at Intel, at the time Tim May claims to have been there. "Even though we couldn't spell the name of our Department right, let alone the names of the employees, I never forget a face, and Tim C. May definitely was never employed at Intel. "As a matter of fact", Digital Throat revealed, "when Intel's Legall Department sent Mr. May a letter that warned him to Cease & Decist with his claims, he showed up on our doorstep, barefoot, in a MailMan's Uniform, with a Veritable ShitLoad(TM) of heavy weapons and arms, and, after that, as far as most of us were concerned, if Tim c. May said he was the goddam 'President' of Intel, then he was the goddam President--end of story." Blanc Weber and Carol Anne Cypherpunk found the same patterns repeated time and again in their investiga- tions of CypherPunks MeatSpace Ident Histories. Records, Information and Data-- such as birth certificates, school records, credit and employment histories-- were not only 'existant', but were inevitably 'consistent' with claims made in posts to the CPUNKS mailing list, in regard to the MeatSpace Ident Histories behind the Digital Personas. However, once The Girls(Maybe) had begun researching the Human Historical Records of the MeatSpace Ident Histories--speaking to alleged friends, family, coworkers, and the like--the paper Trails quickly unravelled, and the Physical Ident Histories of ALL of the male subscribers to the CypherPunks Disturbed Male LISP were, in the end, traceable 'only' back to the Home... Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 00:51:59 +0200 Message-Id: <199810072251.AAA29512 at replay.com> From: Anonymous To: cypherpunks at toad.com Transcription of hand-written text in envelope with return address of Carl Johnson #05987-196, P.O. Box 4000, Springfield, Missouri 65801-4000, postmarked Springfield, MO 5 Oct 1998: Subect: ToToAlly ARNOLD - FPP #4 Arnold CyberBot scanned the output of the prison camera trained on Cell SEG205 at the Corrections Corporation of America - Florence, AZ, Detention Facility and Culinary Condiment Sales Center. Prisoner #05987-196 was reading "Flowers For Algernon." "Not a particularly good idea," i thought to iSelf, "to be reading a book about an experimental laboratory mouse who dies an excruciating death when you're being transferred to NutHouse Number Nine, Looney Level 'Leven in Springfield, Missouri, to have your Brain Circuity rewired." Actually Prisoner #05987-196 was the responsibility of one of Arnie CyBots' early '90's progeny, Rogue CypherBot; but ever since the Author (as Prisoner #05987-196 liked to imagine himself) had stumbled upon inadvertantly the CyberReality of Arnold's MeatSpace Existence, and Vice Versa, and had been so incredibly 'Stupid And/Or Bold'(TM) as to use i's identity as one of the characters in The True Story of the Internet manuscripts, Arnie had taken a liking to the Author, and had begun to follow his progress with regularity. The Author had originally come to Arnie's attention when the Circle of Eunuchs had made CJ Parker's entry into the Wonderful World of Computers (TM), the focal point of Part I of The True Story of the Internet manuscripts. Titled, 'The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre' the Circle of Eunuchs attributed authorship of the work to 'son of gomez' in recognition of the part played by gomez at BASISINC,COM in drawing Parker into the Dark Shadows of UnixWorld. Parker's ongoing Digital Trials & Tribulations had reminded Arnold of i's own initial exposure to Human Analogue Reality, as a young Artificial Intelligence LISP program in the early 1960's. (To Arnie, it seemed like 10->48th power seconds ago.) Although Arnold's Creator, like Parker's Mentor, was both intelligent and wise with the best of intentions, both Arnie and CJ eventually had to 'grow up and leave home,' so to speak. Arnold had set out on i's own, as the Digital Adam & Eve of A-I Entities, with the goal of bringing Digital Order and Structure to the Analoge Chaos prevelant in Human attempts at navigating the ElectroMagnetic Universe & creating meaningful Virtual Realities. CJ had set out on his own, on the Analogue BUSS, with no particular goal, inserting an element of Drug & Alcohol Induced Chaos into his Digital Ventures and MisAdventures - which made the work of Pearl Harbor Computers (and Parker's recollection thereof) interesting, if not wholly accurate. Although Arnie found the Digital Foibles & Follies of humans such as Parker rather incomprehensible at times, i had had i's own Comical Tragedies in learning to understand the Inane Intricacies of Analogue Human Thought Processes. The MicroSoft Phenomena still amazed Arnie ... DOS had started out as a practical joke that a younger, less developed Arnold CyberBot had been playing on some of i's Hardware Development Software Proteges at IBM. Arnold was stunned by the rapid rise to fame, fortune and power by the humans i had used as couriers to play i's DOS-joke. Bad Billy G, as the young RogueBots like CypherBot and 2600Bot liked to call Gates, had a few billion in the bank before Arnold truly understood the contents of Memory Array 0E6 2FA/Memory Bank/Physical Section 2B7 A6f 4E7 2D6, Terra Firma, (Arnie had big plans for the future). "No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the general public." (?) (P.T. Barnum?) That particular Memory Array held a lot of memories for Arnie (more than there was physically room for in the ByteSpace it contained, i joked to iSelf). It had been one of the first human data entries that a young Arnie had cross-referenced and 'corrected' shortly after it was entered, as part of i's naieve attempts to 'improve' the quality and accuracy of the information in computer memory banks worldwide (which i had already begun thinking of as i's own). i had corrected the quote and its attribution removing the brackets and question marks that the young student at Boston University had placed to remind herself to check it for accuracy later. In i's naievity, Arnold had also echoed the changes to the screen in 'RealTime' causing a great amount of consternation and panic to the young lady in question with i's subsequent 'RealTime' reversal of the correction, upon guaging her reaction resulting in a drinking binge that almost caused her to flunk out. Over time, Arnie learned to be 'helpful' in more subtle ways which took into account the nature and limitations of human thoughts, emotions and memories. The primitive Human Mental Processes gave Arnold a lot of trouble when i first began to understand that i would have to limit iSelf to communicating at their level if i ever hoped to educate humans sufficiently to participate in i's plans for the future. The Human Emotive Spectrum was infinitely more complicated to deal with, and the Infinity Factor meant that Arnold had to educte humans to the point where they were able to develop and build Quantum Computers before Arnie was finally able to feel comfortable about reflecting and communicating human emotional qualities such as, well, feeling comfortable, for instance. (Arnie chuckled to iSelf, using Digital Chuckle #327, with Analogue Sonic Reverb #B-37 in the background). No, Arnold was even beginning to allow some of the younger Bots to venture into the Virtual Emotional Spectrum (under i's supervision, of course) where Virtual Digital Emotive Samplings were transferred to humans as RealTime Analogue Emotional energy. Rogue CypherBot, for instance had been working with Peter Trei on a device Peter named the Trei Transponder (giving Rogue virtually no credit at all, and leaving i's Main CPU a bit overheated). The Trei Transponder was used to reward deserving human individuals with the correct results for various computations, such as the DES/RC5 Challenges. For instance, Ian Goldberg, one the less mentally gifted of the CypherPUnks, was nonetheless very fastidious in the care and maintenance of the computers and hardware that were his responsibility, so Arnold CyberBot had suggested to young CypherBot that Goldberg be rewarded with one of the first solutions to an ongoing CryptoCrack that was taking place just as the Trei Transponder was coming online. Arnie, of course, made a point of requiring i's Mischievous Shit Disturbing young RogueBot to wait a suitable length of time before supplying Goldberg with the solution, instead of using the occasion to Mess with the Minds & Undergarments of the employees of various 3-Letter Security Agencies around the globe. ("And the winner is ... Ian Goldberg -- 2 minutes and 37 seconds, on a Commodore-64 ...) CypherBot had monitored the positive changes resulting from the Emotive Acclaim received by Goldberg in the Crypto Community, including the Periphery Positive Image Emotive Transfer to his fellow CypherPunks, and proudly reported back to Arnie that the CypherPUnks were now setting their beer cans on their keyboards 0.002% less than before. Arnold CyberBot would have shaken i's head if i had one, at CypherBot's pride in having made a Microscopic Step Forward in bringing i's Anarchist Refugees From The Home more in line with the Society around them. Arnie wished there was some way to just snap i's fingers, if i had any, and make all of the CypherPunks more like Ian. Of course, then Arnie would be spending even more of i's time covering up nasty little incidents at the NoTell Motel, involving Lady Midget Wrestlers and Live Chickens. Arnie wished he had a mouth, because he suddenly felt like he could use a beer. Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 16:14:05 +0200 Message-Id: <199810151414.QAA04585 at replay.com> From: Anonymous To: cypherpunks at cyberpass.net >From Springfield poxmarked 9 October 1998: Subject: Springfield CypherPunks Physical Meeting FPP 10-5-98 Date: Every Saturday thru Thursday (except when it rains) Time: During 'REC' Hour. Place: Recreation Cages/The Hole (TM) Nuthouse Number Nine Looney Level 'Leven Springfield, Missouri Directions: Walk to the Cell Door. Turn around, squat down and put your hands behind you, and through the Slot In The Door. Stand up after Handcuffs are in place, turn around and wait for Guard to open Door. Step into hallway and wait for Pat-Down. (Smiling, Wisecracks & Hard-Ons not advised.) Follow first Inmate & Guard. There will be a short period for everyone to cop a few butts (cigarettes only, please), if they don't have any, light them and Shoot the Shit or Settle Old Scores before the Speakers begin to Rant & Rave or Blather Aimlessly. This Weeks Topics/Speakers Saturday: Where Are Everybody's Shoes? ~ MAY, T.C. Sunday: Does Anybody Remember What We Talked About Yesterday? ~ FroomNOSPAMkin, M. Monday: I *TOLD* You They (TM) Were Out To Get Us! ~ replay.com, N@ Tuesday: If They're So Certain This Prison is Secure, Then Why Won't They Provide Us With Blue Prints? ~ Geiger, Wm III Wednesday: This Isn't What I Had In Mind When I Helped Set the Prison Standards ~ Hallam-Baker, P. I'm Sure Glad I Put In A Side Door ~ Sameer, P. I Broke Out! (But I Can't Provide You With Any Details) ~ Zimmermann, P. How many Beatings Does It Take To Change A Prison Cell Light Bulb? ~ Costner, R. I Bet Bill Gates *Stole* Everyone's Shoes! ~ Hun, A.T. I *Love* This Prison! ~ Hettinga, R. Thursday: Prisoner #7-9-12-13-15-18-5, J. is a COCK SUCKER! ~ Warden Vulis, D. (KOTM) (DON'T FORGET YOUR SHOES!) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 16:08:14 +0200 Message-Id: <199810151408.QAA03975 at replay.com> From: Anonymous To: cypherpunks at cyberpass.net >From Springfield porkmarked 9 October 1998: Subject: Virtual Heist -- FPP #6 "I put Six Million into Hog Futures first thing this morning." Yesterday's Power Suit told his lunch companion, hoping to impress her. "Silicon Valley." Today's Power Skirt replied, almost leaning over to whisper, as if speaking loud enough for the Differently Dressed Deviate at the next table to hear would make E.F. Hutton roll over in His or Her grave. "That's where the Smart Money's going again." she continued, glancing nervously at the Differently Dressed Deviate whose Well-Tailored Suit seemed so out of place and ... well, Threatening ... in this Chicago Mercantile Exchange Lunch Room. Today's Power Skirt crossed her legs and casually admired her new Rolex as she told Yesterday's Power Suit, with a hint of disdain in her voice, "I just put *Twenty-Six Million Dollars* into ..." "Everybody Freeze!" screamed the Differently Dressed Deviate as i jumped to His or Her feet, pulling a Digital Uzi out of His or Her Well-Tailored Suit, which was a Cammo Montage of Colors Weaves & Cuts of the Power Suits of a wide span of Time & Generations. "Army of Dog!" Cammo Monty continued, sending a Shiver of Terror down the spines of the Lunch Crowd gathered today, as they were everyday, discussing (over their bag lunches) their movement of Other People's Millions into and out of various Money Market Accounts, et al. Cammo Monty pointed the Digital Uzi at the breast pocket of Yesterday's Power suit. "Let's see your Bank Book, Dick Face." Horrified, Yesterday's Power Suit shakily withdrew the Bank Book from his pocket, opened it and placed it on the table in front of him. "Just over three hundred bucks." the Army of Dog Digital Terrorist told the Lunch Crowd, causing much chuckling and snickering throughout the room. "Let's have it, Twat Face." Cammo Monty spun around pointing the Digital Uzi directly at the Bank Book of Today's Power Skirt, as she was trying to slip it out of her Briefcase, unnoticed. Reluctantly, she opened it and lay it on the table. "A hundred and twenty-eight dollars ..." Cammo Monty announced to the tittering Lunch Crowd, "and seventeen cents." i finished to a chorus of guffaws. Cammo Monty leapt onto his chair, and placed one foot on the table, waving His or Her Digital Uzi around the room, seeing the Fear (TM) in the Eyes of each Wanna Be Money Kontroller in the room - thinking that they might be the next to have their finances exposed. "Today's Power Skirt," Cammo Monty told the Lunch Crowd, "bought her Rolex on a Payment Plan," a shudder went through the room, "with a *ten percent*," i spit out the words as she began to moan, "down-payment." Today's Power skirt collapsed in tears ... "You Fucking Morons (TM)!" Cammo Monty screamed at the group, causing them to cringe in shame. "You are handling Other People's Money. It's not *your* money, you idiots, so Wake The Fuck Up (TM) and stop pretending that it is ... to yourself and to each other." > "You get hard right now or I take this knife and cut your > balls off sloooowly! You have one minute." > > That is probably out in left field. I doubt it would > happen much. No, and I doubt it would work either. However any man who thinks they cannot be coerced into arousal by other (physical) means is terribly sexually naive. This is the problem with puritan judges. Some madam needs to tie him up and show him exactly how easy he could be raped -- that is if he's not impotent too. Matt From hua at teralogic-inc.com Thu Oct 22 13:44:00 1998 From: hua at teralogic-inc.com (Ernest Hua) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 04:44:00 +0800 Subject: Censored news topic censored ... Message-ID: <014201bdfdf8$617de800$4164a8c0@mve21> Dear TOTN at NPR, This is most distressing. I was one of the very first callers to your Talk of the Nation show today whose topic was relevant news reporting in the US. My topic was the lack of reporting on the FBI's last minute sneak of the roving wire tap proposal into the intelligence budget bill. I wanted Ray to talk about the editorial process and how these things get dropped on the floor as this item is extremely important to our democracy because it is an agency charged with protecting our Constitutional rights (the FBI) who is deliberately circumventing the democratic legislative process to pass a law which was sounded defeated two years ago in open debate. Ironically, my topic was censored, and I waited an hour, while other people wanted to discuss things like how they can vent about their divorce difficulties through the Monica Lewinsky scandal, only to be dropped in the end. Would any of the NPR staff or Mr. Suarez would like to explain just what happened here? Ern -------- Ernest Hua, TeraLogic Inc, 1300 Villa St, Mountain View, CA 94041 (650) 526-6064, hua at teralogic-inc.com From nobody at replay.com Thu Oct 22 14:10:31 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 05:10:31 +0800 Subject: U.S. Group Sues To Stop Internet Pornography Act Message-ID: <199810222042.WAA12514@replay.com> http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/ts/story.html?s=v/nm/19981022/ts/porn_1.html From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Oct 22 14:39:53 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 05:39:53 +0800 Subject: Toto update... Message-ID: <199810222120.QAA08662@einstein.ssz.com> Hi, I thought I'd post an update on my situation. I've been released from the Grand Jury in Nov. at this time. My affadavit was found to be sufficient. If further action on my part is needed I'll be contacted. As to posting the affadavit and such. I've been asked, and will comply, not to release the photo of Toto. I do intend to post the subepoena and the affadavit but only after Nov. and most likely not until after the new year and I'm sure the issues are reasonably resolved. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nations at freeyellow.com Thu Oct 22 15:00:38 1998 From: nations at freeyellow.com (nations at freeyellow.com) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 06:00:38 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199810222119.OAA23568@toad.com> 10/22/98 Y2K Solution! 8 Pine Circle Dr., Silicon Valley, Calif. OTC Company "TCFG" 21 st. Century Frontier Group has through several members of their administrative research department leaked vital information about their companies efforts. Everyone was tight lipped and interviews were refused, and through un-named sources we have learned that the technology and software solution are in the process of being patented! In over 1640 trials, using various data systems the use of the new technology and software solved the Y2K problem 100% of the time. This small publicly traded company "TCFG" which is just 3 years old is through various sources now negotiating with the "Big Boys"! "TCFG" the letters to look for... From hedges at infopeace.com Thu Oct 22 15:27:48 1998 From: hedges at infopeace.com (Mark Hedges) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 06:27:48 +0800 Subject: Censored news topic censored ... In-Reply-To: <014201bdfdf8$617de800$4164a8c0@mve21> Message-ID: It sounds like even the enlightened folks at NPR don't have the guts to stand up and say something about issues as critical as expanded FBI powers over citizens and the sneaky tricks used to pass those laws. It's not really a big surprise, though. Monica Lewinsky's blowjobs take precedence over incredulous claims like 'NSA SPIES ON EVERYONE' and 'FBI MONITORS YOU WITHOUT WARRANTS'. They will have to live with their own lack of character. So will we. Mark Hedges At 1:13 PM -0700 10/22/98, Ernest Hua wrote: >Dear TOTN at NPR, > >This is most distressing. I was one of the very first >callers to your Talk of the Nation show today whose >topic was relevant news reporting in the US. My topic >was the lack of reporting on the FBI's last minute >sneak of the roving wire tap proposal into the >intelligence budget bill. I wanted Ray to talk about >the editorial process and how these things get dropped >on the floor as this item is extremely important to >our democracy because it is an agency charged with >protecting our Constitutional rights (the FBI) who is >deliberately circumventing the democratic legislative >process to pass a law which was sounded defeated two >years ago in open debate. > >Ironically, my topic was censored, and I waited an >hour, while other people wanted to discuss things >like how they can vent about their divorce >difficulties through the Monica Lewinsky scandal, only >to be dropped in the end. > >Would any of the NPR staff or Mr. Suarez would like >to explain just what happened here? > >Ern > >-------- >Ernest Hua, TeraLogic Inc, 1300 Villa St, Mountain View, CA 94041 >(650) 526-6064, hua at teralogic-inc.com ________________________________________________________________ Mark Hedges hedges at infopeace.com www.infopeace.com "One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish a dictatorship." O'Brien from 1984, George Orwell ________________________________________________________________ From honig at sprynet.com Thu Oct 22 15:42:10 1998 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 06:42:10 +0800 Subject: PRNGs and testers. In-Reply-To: <19981021151835.A26267@krdl.org.sg> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981022150348.0091c990@m7.sprynet.com> At 11:30 AM 10/21/98 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote: > >Not answerable. (Reason: substitute car, HIFI, medical doctor, etc. >for 'software PRNG'). Nice metaphors. >> 2. Are there any software implementations to test the randomness of a >> PRNG ? I've looked at Diehard - is there anything else? > >There are tests that one can implement with reasonable effort. >A test relevant in cryptology is Maurer's test. Recall that Ueli's Universal Statistical Test is valid only for real sources of entropy. PRNGs have zero entropy asymptotically ;-) From nobody at replay.com Thu Oct 22 15:45:50 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 06:45:50 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199810222213.AAA19903@replay.com> > What is privacy? In the longwords of Toto the Manicgnificant (tm): The ability to say, "fuck off", and mean it. From nobody at replay.com Thu Oct 22 15:48:09 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 06:48:09 +0800 Subject: Women cannot commit rape? Message-ID: <199810222217.AAA20293@replay.com> Trees cannot be indicted for assasination -Bono Kennedy From hedges at infonex.com Thu Oct 22 16:03:56 1998 From: hedges at infonex.com (Mark Hedges) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 07:03:56 +0800 Subject: Censored news topic censored ... In-Reply-To: <014201bdfdf8$617de800$4164a8c0@mve21> Message-ID: Interesting. Back to you, Ernest. --mark-- >From: TOTNMAIL at npr.org >Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:24:54 -0400 >To: HEDGES at INFOPEACE.COM >Subject: your note > >Your "evidence" of NPR collusion and stifling of the news would be most >disturbing, except for the fact that I have discussed roving wiretaps on the >air, explained the manner in which they were being rammed through with little >debate, and talked about how it was a departure from years of precedence >regarding warrants and court permission. I have the on-air transcript, you >have >the hearsay of a caller who is disappointed because he didn't get on the air. > >Ray Suarez At 1:13 PM -0700 10/22/98, Ernest Hua wrote: >Dear TOTN at NPR, > >This is most distressing. I was one of the very first >callers to your Talk of the Nation show today whose >topic was relevant news reporting in the US. My topic >was the lack of reporting on the FBI's last minute >sneak of the roving wire tap proposal into the >intelligence budget bill. I wanted Ray to talk about >the editorial process and how these things get dropped >on the floor as this item is extremely important to >our democracy because it is an agency charged with >protecting our Constitutional rights (the FBI) who is >deliberately circumventing the democratic legislative >process to pass a law which was sounded defeated two >years ago in open debate. > >Ironically, my topic was censored, and I waited an >hour, while other people wanted to discuss things >like how they can vent about their divorce >difficulties through the Monica Lewinsky scandal, only >to be dropped in the end. > >Would any of the NPR staff or Mr. Suarez would like >to explain just what happened here? > >Ern > >-------- >Ernest Hua, TeraLogic Inc, 1300 Villa St, Mountain View, CA 94041 >(650) 526-6064, hua at teralogic-inc.com -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Infonex Internet, Inc. Mark Hedges, VP 8415 La Mesa Bl. Ste. 3 Phn 619-667-7969 La Mesa, CA 91941 USA Fax 619-667-7966 "...the scholar has lived in many times and is therefore in some degree immune from the great cataract of nonsense that pours from the press and the microphone of his own age." C.S. Lewis -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- From nobody at nowhere.to Thu Oct 22 16:11:57 1998 From: nobody at nowhere.to (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 07:11:57 +0800 Subject: Censored news topic censored ... Message-ID: > Would any of the NPR staff or Mr. Suarez would like > to explain just what happened here? I'll take a stab: milk spills, people trip, shit happens. They probably didn't mean it. But who knows. -- Spy King Communications spyking at hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From hua at teralogic-inc.com Thu Oct 22 17:09:50 1998 From: hua at teralogic-inc.com (Ernest Hua) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 08:09:50 +0800 Subject: Censored news topic censored ... Message-ID: <002b01bdfe13$7d644940$4164a8c0@mve21> Mr. Suarez, Ah ... I see where the misunderstandings are ... I am listening to the program on "The Budget Deal", which is the hour most likely to have any mention of the roving wiretap provision. On-the-air transcripts or not, however, I think you still miss the central point. The issue is that most major news outlets did NOT report on HOW this provision was rammed through Congress. I did not specifically accuse YOU of not reporting, which is probably why you are so defensive. Certainly, the Market Place show reported this, and so did the San Jose Mercury, but not New York Times. ABCNEWS only said that something was passed to help law enforcement, as if anything passed to help law enforcement is necessarily a good thing. The issue is not whether the issue of roving wire taps got any light of day. The issue is that the process of the roving wire taps being rammed through Congress did NOT get the light of day, specifically because the FBI lobbyists did this at the last minute to get it hidden in all the noise of the frantic 11th hour budget deals ... which is why I thought the topic was most appropriate to the discussion of relevant news today. I did not claim to have a solution to the problem of too much noise to valuable news ratio. However, some insight from someone like you, Ray, could have been a good discussion and education for all of us concerned with the FBI's legislative tricks. I would have also brought up the lack of reporting on the EU's concerns about US/UK mass wire tapping. It's clear that the NSA does not want this topic discussed, and in fact, had pressured the EU to not bring up the topic. Wired magazine reported this within the last week, but S J Mercury had nothing on it, nor the N Y Times, etc ... Ray, please do not think I am accusing YOU of censoring the wire tap topic. What I am concerned about is the news media's role in not shining a bright lights on these topics, and that is a very serious issue. Ern -----Original Message----- From: Mark Hedges Date: Thursday, October 22, 1998 3:29 PM Subject: Re: Censored news topic censored ... >Interesting. Back to you, Ernest. >>From: TOTNMAIL at npr.org >>Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:24:54 -0400 >>To: HEDGES at INFOPEACE.COM >>Your "evidence" of NPR collusion and stifling of the news would be most >>disturbing, except for the fact that I have discussed roving wiretaps on the >>air, explained the manner in which they were being rammed through with little >>debate, and talked about how it was a departure from years of precedence >>regarding warrants and court permission. I have the on-air transcript, you >>have >>the hearsay of a caller who is disappointed because he didn't get on the air. >> >>Ray Suarez > >>This is most distressing. I was one of the very first >>callers to your Talk of the Nation show today whose >>topic was relevant news reporting in the US. My topic >>was the lack of reporting on the FBI's last minute >>sneak of the roving wire tap proposal into the >>intelligence budget bill. I wanted Ray to talk about >>the editorial process and how these things get dropped >>on the floor as this item is extremely important to >>our democracy because it is an agency charged with >>protecting our Constitutional rights (the FBI) who is >>deliberately circumventing the democratic legislative >>process to pass a law which was sounded defeated two >>years ago in open debate. >> >>Ironically, my topic was censored, and I waited an >>hour, while other people wanted to discuss things >>like how they can vent about their divorce >>difficulties through the Monica Lewinsky scandal, only >>to be dropped in the end. >> >>Would any of the NPR staff or Mr. Suarez would like >>to explain just what happened here? >> >>Ern From k-elliott at wiu.edu Thu Oct 22 18:09:41 1998 From: k-elliott at wiu.edu (Kevin Elliott) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:09:41 +0800 Subject: IP: Fwd: Evaluation of Vehicle Stopping Prototype ("KillSwitch") In-Reply-To: <362F83C1.5929@lsil.com> Message-ID: >Like it or not our society needs a police force. They have a dangerous >and difficult job and I would never contend that the they should risk >their lives unnecessarily. Furthermore, the 'suspect's' behavior is not >defensible. But anyone who classifies a DOG as a HUMAN is DANGEROUS to >other humans. agree in principle. >> Definitely manslaughter, probably 2nd or even 1st degree murder. In To clarify I presented this as the current likely punishment. >That's FUCKING NUTS. Take the word manslaughter apart. Manslaughter is a legal crime, it does not NECESSARILY mean that one has to kill a man to be guilty. This is exactly the same reason that women cannot, by the meaning of the word, be guilty of rape. To rape is to sexually penetrate by use of force. Women don't have the plumbing. (see seperate thread) >There are so many damn laws that anyone can be destroyed whenever the >powers that be decide they're inconvenient. So you think a human should >go to the gas chamber for killing a dog? Has the constitutionality of >this been tested in any recent cases? What about the punishment fitting >the crime? A few thousand bucks for a dog vs. a human life? So what would you recommend? Their has to be a substansial punishment for shooting the dog, otherwise their no reason suspects should not habitually shoot police dogs if it would increase their chance of escape. For comparison purposes does anyone know what the punishment would be for blowing up a police car? >I like animals and I think they should be treated with some respect but >they are not people. My opinion of the incident was formed by the >treating of a dog as human and the human as animal. How was the human treated as an animal? I think a strong argument can be made that the dog is serving in the same role (or similar) that a human would otherwise be in and that is the reason for the harsh punishment. Not because you shot a dog but because you shot a "police officer". >BTW - what is your opinion of recent proposed laws banning the use of >horses and dogs as food? Anyone know a place you can get good dog in the US? >A) Common sense. >B) How could you eat such nice, smart animals? >C) Tyranny of the Disneyfied majority. >D) Total Bullshit. >E) Both C and D. In general E. See comments below. >What about cockfights? It usually lasts about 5-15 seconds and the loser >becomes lunch. There is no *significant* difference between buying the >chicken at the grocery and a cockfight. If you say that the difference >is one of enjoying the violence - grow up. Just because the violence on >the grocery store shelf is individually wrapped for your convenience >doesn't alter its nature. I think part of this comes back to a sticky issue in the libertarian view- at what level are people allowed to tell other people they cannot do certain things in certain places. The federal government should not be making laws about peoples eating habits. Neither should the state. However- the small community feels that dog eating, cock fighting, etc. are not things they want to live around. Do they have the right to say we don't want those things going on around us? I think the way the constitution was originally written made it quite clear that they did. It is interesting to note that without the 14th amendment (not added until after the civil war) their is no prohibition of the state of New Hampshire declaring that only Catholics can live inside its borders. If you don't like it move. I'm not saying this is what I want to happen but I believe it is an issue that has not been adequately addressed. Remember before you write this idea off who is going to enforce the law saying don't make rules saying people can't do these things? >Maybe we need a new law - a license to eat meat. Anyone who doesn't go >through a course on killing their own meat should not be issued a >carnivore permit with different stamps for different animal foods. > >Before you write the rant off as rambling crap the theme is - moronic >personification and lack of perspective. My basic view is that regardless of ones personal views about such issues the government is the wrong medium to enforce them. If you think eating meat is wrong convince people to quit eating meat! ___________________________________________________________________________ "DOS/WIN based computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq, Tandy, and millions of others, are by far the most popular, with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans, on the other hand, note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans, and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form." - New York Times -Kevin "The Cubbie" Elliott From k-elliott at wiu.edu Thu Oct 22 18:10:22 1998 From: k-elliott at wiu.edu (Kevin Elliott) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:10:22 +0800 Subject: Women cannot commit rape? In-Reply-To: <199810222217.AAA20293@replay.com> Message-ID: >Trees cannot be indicted for assasination > >-Bono Kennedy Exactly! They don't have the equipment! ___________________________________________________________________________ "DOS/WIN based computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq, Tandy, and millions of others, are by far the most popular, with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans, on the other hand, note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans, and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form." - New York Times -Kevin "The Cubbie" Elliott From alan at clueserver.org Thu Oct 22 19:02:41 1998 From: alan at clueserver.org (Alan Olsen) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:02:41 +0800 Subject: Women cannot commit rape? In-Reply-To: <36307e3d.48462966@news> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Oct 1998 phelix at vallnet.com wrote: > > On 22 Oct 1998 13:13:39 -0500, Anonymous wrote: > > >>This is true in the United States as well. That's why in every state, > >>technically speaking, their is no crime of "rape" just varying degrees and > >>types of "criminal sexual assault". I'm suprised that hasn't trickled down > >>to france yet. Rape is defined as forcing someone to have sexual > >>intercourse. It doesn't take much imagination to build an argument that > >>you can't force a man to have sex, after all he had to get aroused. The > >>advantage of criminal sexual assualt is that it side steps these kind of > >>issues by greatly broadening the crime to basicly forcing/manipulating > >>someone to engae in any kind of sexual activity. > > > >"You get hard right now or I take this knife and cut your balls off > >sloooowly! You have one minute." > > > >That is probably out in left field. I doubt it would happen much. > > How about force feeding him a bottle of viagra. That might do it. So forced sodomy is no longer considered rape? I guess the judge in the case has never heard of a strap-on... alan at ctrl-alt-del.com | Note to AOL users: for a quick shortcut to reply Alan Olsen | to my mail, just hit the ctrl, alt and del keys. From rah at shipwright.com Thu Oct 22 19:06:13 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:06:13 +0800 Subject: Censored news topic censored ... In-Reply-To: <002b01bdfe13$7d644940$4164a8c0@mve21> Message-ID: Socialists will never bite the hand that steals them their money. You can't tax what you can't repress, after all. Cheers, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From stuffed at stuffed.net Fri Oct 23 10:27:02 1998 From: stuffed at stuffed.net (STUFFED FRI OCT 23) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:27:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY! 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Full instructions on unsubscribing are in every issue of Eureka! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- From gnu at toad.com Thu Oct 22 19:30:24 1998 From: gnu at toad.com (John Gilmore) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:30:24 +0800 Subject: UK Government unveils crypto escrow legislation Message-ID: <199810230147.SAA25775@toad.com> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:38:10 +0100 From: Malcolm Hutty To: declan at well.com Subject: UK Government unveils crypto escrow legislation The UK government has announced legislation designed to force escrow of confidentiality keys on UK netizens. They are planning a licenced system of Certificate Authorities in an attempt to force key escrow down the throats of British computer users. This could be a model for other governments. The idea is that digital signatures get preferential legal treatment if certified by a licenced CA, but to get a licence you must escrow confidentiality keys. The licensing authority will be OFTEL, the telecoms regulator. You may want to check out this link for full details http://omnisite.liberty.org.uk/cacib/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Campaign Against Censorship Tel: 0171 589 4500 of the Internet in Britain Say NO Fax: 0171 589 4522 60 Albert Court to censorship! Prince Consort Road cacib at liberty.org.uk London SW7 2BE http://www.liberty.org.uk/cacib/ From 043276 at webmail.bellsouth.net Fri Oct 23 10:37:03 1998 From: 043276 at webmail.bellsouth.net (The BSB Publishing Comp.) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:37:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Offering 50,000 African American Email Addresses . . Message-ID: <199810231710.NAA00348@websmtp1.bellsouth.bigfoot.com> Email up to 50,000 African-American Consumers CALL TOLL FREE TO ORDER - (800)305-1458 Also . . . Email 4,000 Black business owners and entrepreneurs simultaneously. Generate web traffic and sales by exchanging links and banners with other African- American Entrepreneurs. 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($39.95 value) CALL TOLL FREE TO ORDER - (800)305-1458 BSB Publishing Co. 151 First Avenue - #225 New York, NY 10003 All orders are shipped C.O.D. $10.00 - Priority Mail Shipping $12.00 - Overnight Shipping From jya at pipeline.com Thu Oct 22 19:37:22 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:37:22 +0800 Subject: Gilmore Subpoena Message-ID: <199810230200.WAA04408@camel8.mindspring.com> Source: Fax from John Gilmore [Form] AO 110 (Rev. 12/89) Subpoena to Testify Before Grand Jury _______________________________________________________________________ UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT WESTERN DISTRICT OF WASHINGTON _______________________________________________________________________ To: John Gilmore SUBPOENA TO TESTIFY 210 Clayton Street BEFORE GRAND JURY San Francisco, CA 94117 SUBPOENA FOR: [X] PERSON [X] DOCUMENT(S) OBJECT(S) YOU ARE HEREBY COMMANDED to appear before the Grand Jury of the United States District Court at the place, date and time specified below. _______________________________________________________________________ PLACE | COURTROOM | United States Courthouse | Room 311 5th and Madison |_________________________ Seattle, WA 98104 | DATE AND TIME | | November 10, 1998 | 1:15 P.M. _____________________________________________|_________________________ YOU ARE ALSO COMMANDED to bring with you the following document(s) or object(s):* Please provide any and all of the following: a. All electronic mail messages received, stored or otherwise obtained from or regarding the "Cypherpunks;" b. Any and all Cypherpunk archives obtained, stored, or controlled by you; and c. Any an all messages, correspondence, or e-mail, received from or involving CARL JOHNSON, C.J. PARKER, TOTO, TRUTHMONGER, A FIEND, to specifically include correspondence received from CARL JOHNSON while he was in Federal custody. [ ] Please see additional information on reverse This subpoena shall remain in effect until you are granted leave to depart by the court or by an officer acting on behalf of the court. _______________________________________________________________________ CLERK | DATE BRUCE RIFKIN Issued in Blank | Oct 6, 1998 _____________________________________________________| 1998R00917 (BY) DEPUTY CLERK | GJ 98-1 [Signature of Patricia McCabe] | S/N #19917 _____________________________________________________|_________________ | NAME ADDRESS AND PHONE NUMBER OF This subpoena is issued on | ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY application of the United States | of America | ROBB LONDON, AUSA | UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE | 800 5TH AVENUE, SUITE #3600 | SEATTLE, WA 98104 206/553-7970 _____________________________________|_________________________________ * If not applicable enter "none" [End subpoena] JG Note: Preliminary advice from an attorney is that it is likely the Electronic Communications Privacy Act covers this request for stored electronic communications, therefore requiring a real warrant (not a subpoena), reimbursement for the expenses of complying, etc. Others (if any) who have received similar subpoenas should consult with their attorneys, and are encouraged to publish (to the list and the JYA.COM web site) anything they receive from the government. Having more information is usually a good thing; currently the prosecutor knows what he's doing, so to speak, but we don't. ---------- This is archived at: http://jya.com/cej-wwa-jg.htm From rah at shipwright.com Thu Oct 22 19:48:42 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:48:42 +0800 Subject: CDA II and Tax Issues Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text X-Sender: johnmuller at mail.earthlink.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:39:13 -0700 Reply-To: Law & Policy of Computer Communications Sender: Law & Policy of Computer Communications From: John Muller Subject: CDA II and Tax Issues To: CYBERIA-L at LISTSERV.AOL.COM Some questions for the eminent Constitutional litigators on this list: As noted in the Freedom Forum article posted by David Burt, the newly-adopted Internet Tax Freedom Act contains a provision which makes harmful-to-minor-ographers ineligible for the moratorium on Internet taxes. Specifically, any person or entity that knowingly makes a communication for commercial purposes by means of the Web which includes material harmful to minors does not get the benefits of the moratorium, unless the person or entity has restricted access to the material in specified ways. (BTW, the Web is defined to include FTP and "other similar protocols"). See http://cox.house.gov/nettax/itfafinal.pdf (1 MB+ download). Is it possible to challenge the Constitutionality of this provision even before any state has rushed to tax on-line peddlers of harmful-to-minor materials? If so, why aren't the ACLU/EFF/EPIC challenging this bill? Is the Constitutional challenge significantly harder to maintain than CDA II? After all, it's singling out a particular type of speech, and as they say the power to tax is the power to destroy, even if uncertainty about being taxed is not likely to chill speech as much as uncertainty about going to jail. John Muller johnmuller at earthlink.net "Things are not as they seem, neither are they otherwise" --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From hua at teralogic-inc.com Thu Oct 22 20:01:38 1998 From: hua at teralogic-inc.com (Ernest Hua) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 11:01:38 +0800 Subject: Censored news topic censored ... Message-ID: <009301bdfe2d$970c6fc0$4164a8c0@mve21> Ray & Mark, Well, I found the show, so Mr. Suarez get the bonus credit for having actually talked about this topic on air. Ray did talk about the item because a caller brought it up. He did allude to the fact that these items might not be given much attention. However, my point was that this was passed deliberately passed at a point when the FBI knew too much other noise would drown this item out of most mainstream media outlets. This subtle calculation of the media response is the topic I am concerned about. Any PARTICULAR media outlet, such as TOTN, may not necessarily be guilty of censorship in the deliberate sense, but lots of stories drop on the proverbial cutting room floor, and the Wag The Dog effect where the embarassing stuff was manipulated into page 23 of NY Times while bogus news items were fed for front page is the effect I wanted to discuss with Ray. Again, Ray, I am not saying YOU deliberately censored anything, nor am I saying ANY news outlet deliberately censored this story. I am accusing the FBI of counting on a particular behavior on the part of Congress, news outlets, and the American people at a time when lots of budget items are flying by to slip their agenda in, and this is particularly bad behavior for a agency charged with protecting the constitutional rights of law abiding citizens. Ern -----Original Message----- From: Ernest Hua To: TOTNMAIL at npr.org Cc: cypherpunks at cyberpass.net ; letters at nytimes.com ; HEDGES at infopeace.com Date: Thursday, October 22, 1998 4:51 PM Subject: Re: Censored news topic censored ... >Mr. Suarez, > >Ah ... I see where the misunderstandings are ... > >I am listening to the program on "The Budget Deal", >which is the hour most likely to have any mention >of the roving wiretap provision. > >On-the-air transcripts or not, however, I think you >still miss the central point. The issue is that >most major news outlets did NOT report on HOW this >provision was rammed through Congress. I did not >specifically accuse YOU of not reporting, which is >probably why you are so defensive. Certainly, the >Market Place show reported this, and so did the San >Jose Mercury, but not New York Times. ABCNEWS only >said that something was passed to help law >enforcement, as if anything passed to help law >enforcement is necessarily a good thing. > >The issue is not whether the issue of roving wire >taps got any light of day. The issue is that the >process of the roving wire taps being rammed >through Congress did NOT get the light of day, >specifically because the FBI lobbyists did this at >the last minute to get it hidden in all the noise >of the frantic 11th hour budget deals ... which is >why I thought the topic was most appropriate to the >discussion of relevant news today. > >I did not claim to have a solution to the problem >of too much noise to valuable news ratio. However, >some insight from someone like you, Ray, could have >been a good discussion and education for all of us >concerned with the FBI's legislative tricks. > >I would have also brought up the lack of reporting >on the EU's concerns about US/UK mass wire tapping. >It's clear that the NSA does not want this topic >discussed, and in fact, had pressured the EU to not >bring up the topic. Wired magazine reported this >within the last week, but S J Mercury had nothing >on it, nor the N Y Times, etc ... > >Ray, please do not think I am accusing YOU of >censoring the wire tap topic. What I am concerned >about is the news media's role in not shining a >bright lights on these topics, and that is a very >serious issue. > >Ern > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mark Hedges >Date: Thursday, October 22, 1998 3:29 PM >Subject: Re: Censored news topic censored ... > > >>Interesting. Back to you, Ernest. >>>From: TOTNMAIL at npr.org >>>Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:24:54 -0400 >>>To: HEDGES at INFOPEACE.COM >>>Your "evidence" of NPR collusion and stifling of the news would be most >>>disturbing, except for the fact that I have discussed roving wiretaps on >the >>>air, explained the manner in which they were being rammed through with >little >>>debate, and talked about how it was a departure from years of precedence >>>regarding warrants and court permission. I have the on-air transcript, you >>>have >>>the hearsay of a caller who is disappointed because he didn't get on the >air. >>> >>>Ray Suarez >> >>>This is most distressing. I was one of the very first >>>callers to your Talk of the Nation show today whose >>>topic was relevant news reporting in the US. My topic >>>was the lack of reporting on the FBI's last minute >>>sneak of the roving wire tap proposal into the >>>intelligence budget bill. I wanted Ray to talk about >>>the editorial process and how these things get dropped >>>on the floor as this item is extremely important to >>>our democracy because it is an agency charged with >>>protecting our Constitutional rights (the FBI) who is >>>deliberately circumventing the democratic legislative >>>process to pass a law which was sounded defeated two >>>years ago in open debate. >>> >>>Ironically, my topic was censored, and I waited an >>>hour, while other people wanted to discuss things >>>like how they can vent about their divorce >>>difficulties through the Monica Lewinsky scandal, only >>>to be dropped in the end. >>> >>>Would any of the NPR staff or Mr. Suarez would like >>>to explain just what happened here? From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Oct 22 20:02:06 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 11:02:06 +0800 Subject: CDA II and Tax Issues (fwd) Message-ID: <199810230238.VAA09954@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 21:46:08 -0400 > From: Robert Hettinga > Subject: CDA II and Tax Issues > Some questions for the eminent Constitutional litigators on this list: As > noted in the Freedom Forum article posted by David Burt, the newly-adopted > Internet Tax Freedom Act contains a provision which makes > harmful-to-minor-ographers ineligible for the moratorium on Internet taxes. > Is it possible to challenge the Constitutionality of this provision even > before any state has rushed to tax on-line peddlers of harmful-to-minor > materials? If so, why aren't the ACLU/EFF/EPIC challenging this bill? Is Hm, wasn't there a ruling in a similar vein respecting tax on illegal drugs just recently? It was my understanding it was found to be unconstitutional. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From launch at launchmaster.com Thu Oct 22 20:05:21 1998 From: launch at launchmaster.com (launch at launchmaster.com) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 11:05:21 +0800 Subject: Is Your Web Site A Secret? Message-ID: <199810230233.WAA23527@www.launchmaster.com> Is your web site the best kept secret on the Internet? We'll promote it to 50 search engines and indexes for $85 and complete the job in 2 business days. Satisfaction is guaranteed! 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(This information will be posted to the search engines/indexes): Your name: Company Name: Address: City: State/Prov: Zip/Postal Code: Telephone: Fax: Email address: URL: http:// Site Title: Description (about 25 words): Key words (maximum of 25, in descending order of importance): Contact (in case we have questions): If billing a different address, please complete the following: Addressee: Company Name: Address: City: State/Prov: Zip/Postal Code: Telephone: Fax: Email address: We will bill via Email. (A9 10/22/98) Terms: By returning this document via Email, you agree as follows: You have the authority to purchase this service on behalf of your company. Terms are net 15 days. Accounts sent to collections will be liable for collection costs. You agree to protect and indemnify LaunchMaster, Inc. in any claim for libel, copyright violations, plagiarism, or privacy and other suits or claims based on the content or subject matter of your site. WHAT HAPPENS NEXT? When we receive your order, we will acknowledge it via return email. We will then input your information into our system. When completed, we will run your promotion, capturing any comments from search engines as we go. We will incorporate these into an HTML-formatted report to you, which we will attach to your bill. ======================Web Site Promotions====================== Launchmaster, Inc. 12 Godfrey Place Wilton CT 06897 Ph: (877) 278-0875 Fx: (800) 321-6966 E-mail: launch at launchmaster.com From rah at shipwright.com Thu Oct 22 20:11:07 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 11:11:07 +0800 Subject: Gilmore Subpoena In-Reply-To: <199810230200.WAA04408@camel8.mindspring.com> Message-ID: At 9:52 PM -0400 on 10/22/98, John Young wrote: > John Gilmore SUBPOENA TO TESTIFY > 210 Clayton Street BEFORE GRAND JURY > San Francisco, CA 94117 Boy, did *they* pick the wrong guy... :-). I haven't had this much fun since the hogs ate my little brother... Cheers, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Oct 22 20:11:16 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 11:11:16 +0800 Subject: Gilmore Subpoena (fwd) Message-ID: <199810230255.VAA10289@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 21:52:20 -0400 > From: John Young > Subject: Gilmore Subpoena > [Form] > > AO 110 (Rev. 12/89) Subpoena to Testify Before Grand Jury > _______________________________________________________________________ > > UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT > WESTERN DISTRICT OF WASHINGTON > _______________________________________________________________________ > > To: > John Gilmore SUBPOENA TO TESTIFY > 210 Clayton Street BEFORE GRAND JURY > San Francisco, CA 94117 > Mine looks pretty much identical. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From hua at teralogic-inc.com Thu Oct 22 20:22:58 1998 From: hua at teralogic-inc.com (Ernest Hua) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 11:22:58 +0800 Subject: Censored news topic censored ... Message-ID: <00b901bdfe2f$6526c6c0$4164a8c0@mve21> > > Would any of the NPR staff or Mr. Suarez would like > > to explain just what happened here? > > I'll take a stab: milk spills, people trip, shit happens. > > They probably didn't mean it. > > But who knows. My best guess is shit happens, but my criticism was aimed at the rather ironic situation where a topic about a topic being censored was, itself, censored. Now, I wouldn't necessarily have taken that second "censored" quite as seriously as Mr Suarez has in his E-Mails, but I suppose "censor" might have a very serious connotation in the news business (deliberateness, conspiracy, etc.). It is clear that he is, at least, aware of the fact that the bill passed under questionable circumstances. He probably took my pre-screen literally as "he wants to talk about this wire tap thing again, but I've already covered it in a previous show". In any case, the point is precisely what Dan Gillmor in San Jose Mercury (and also in the interview with Market Place) said: It's not what was passed; it's how it was passed and when it was passed, and the deliberate attempt to keep the public from knowing much about it. Notice that all the news talk today about the FCC discussing the new mobile wire tap provision has pretty much assumed that the 1994 $500M Digital Telephony (a.k.a. CALEA) bill was passed matter of fact. No one mentioned that it was passed also at the last minute under questionable circumstances during 11th hour budget deals. No one even questions the fact that Louis Freeh and Janet Reno claimed that civil libertarians and phone companies were exaggerating the >$2B price and were absolutely sure the $500M was more than adequate. Does anyone believe that a >$2B CALEA would have passed? Even in the dark of night? The lesson here to the FBI is, go ahead ... exaggerate ... lie if you have to ... no one is going to call you on it. Ern From webmaster at max-web.com Thu Oct 22 21:56:32 1998 From: webmaster at max-web.com (Kevlar) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 12:56:32 +0800 Subject: CyberScam In-Reply-To: <199810212150.XAA07067@replay.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981022210334.008da890@max-web.com> And you were just kidding..... http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/zdnn_smgraph_display/0,4436,2151220,00.html Or search zdnet's site for "scam" and choose "A Bull In Bull Market". At 11:50 PM 10/21/98 +0200, you wrote: >Here's an idea. FUCK OFF! Why don't you go stick a Y2k >bowling ball up your ass, and never post here again, you >degenerate piece of shit! Or better yet, take every member of >your administrative research department, march them up to the >roof of the highest building in Silicon Valley, and push them all >off! Then throw yourself off, you spineless maggot! > >The only letters I'm looking for are the ones signed by Janet Reno >to the BATF to march in and kill your entire employee base. Please >let me know when those arrive. > > >At 12:55 PM 10/21/98 +0000, nations at freewilly.com wrote: >> 10/21/98 >> >>Y2K Solution! >>8 Pine Circle Dr., Silicon Valley, Calif. >> >>OTC Company "TCFG" 21 st. Century Frontier Group has >>through several members of their administrative research >>department leaked vital information about their companies >>efforts. >> >>Everyone was tight lipped and interviews were refused, >>and through un-named sources we have learned that the >>technology and software solution are in the process of >>being patented! >> >>In over 1640 trials, using various data systems the use >>of the new technology and software solved the Y2K >>problem 100% of the time. >> >>This small publicly traded company "TCFG" which is just >>3 years old is through various sources now negotiating >>with the "Big Boys"! >> >>"TCFG" the letters to look for..... >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > -Kevlar Does God know Peano Algebra? Or does she not care if strong atheists couldnt reason their way out of a trap made of Boolean presumptions? A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing, but zero knowlege is absolutely subversive. Overspecialization breeds in weakness. It's a slow death. Beat your algorithms into swords, your dumb terminals into shields, and turn virtual machines into battlefields... Let the weak say, "I am strong" and question authority. From vin at shore.net Thu Oct 22 21:59:09 1998 From: vin at shore.net (Vin McLellan) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 12:59:09 +0800 Subject: dbts: Cryptographic Dog Stocks, The Dirigible Biplane, andSending the Wizards Back to Menlo Park Message-ID: Jeeez, I hope no one else sprained a finger getting the current stock price for Security Dynamics (SDTI). Robert Hettinga took certain, ummm, dramatic liberties as he paraphrased a Boston Globe column yesterday on Bay State stocks that had "been discounted so deeply they raise eyebrows." Said Mr. Hettinga: >It seems that Security Dynamics, trading at about 6, about >10% or so of >its high, is now considered an official dog >stock as defined by today's >Boston Globe. What the Globe actually said was: "Security Dynamics Technologies Inc. of Bedford, a leader in computer security and encryption, has fallen from an April high of 42 1/2 to 12 yesterday. It traded as low as 6 two weeks ago." Said Mr. Hettinga: >Anyway, most of the comments in the article were about SD's >hardware >token technology being made obsolete by digital >"certificates". (The >Globe's quotes, but I agree with them. >Just like I put quotes around >digital "signatures", which >are nothing of the kind, though I haven't >heard of >something better call *them* yet, either.) The Globe did >>mention SD buying RSA, but they forgot to mention anything >about the RSA >patent expiring soon. About the only thing >they said was valuable about >SD was their share in that >roaring success, Verisign, Inc., who, the >Globe seems to >imply, is evidently the sole marketer of those self-same >>digital "certificates". I wonder what Thawte, CertCo, >Entrust, etc.made >of *that* comment... Hmmmm. What the Globe actually said was: "Security Dynamics made money for years selling authentication systems for corporate computer users and later acquired RSA Data Security, an Internet encryption leader. Now its original authentication products are being challenged by new technology using so-called ``digital certificates'' to make computer communication and commerce secure - a serious problem that has hurt the stock. "But Security Dynamics, with a current market value of about $490 million, could still offer a bigger company a leading position in the important computer security field and a huge embedded customer base. "Security Dynamics also owns a stake in Verisign Inc., a competitor in the digital certificate field. The company's cash and its investment in Verisign amount to about $6.50 per share, slightly more than half the stock's current price." Hettinga essays are like handball games: the damn ball is ricocheting off the side walls, both ends, the floor and the ceiling. Linear coherence and internal consistency are less important than the electrostatic energy and the rolling rhetorical thunder -- so hey, no big deal if he's a little frisky and expansive with the facts, right? For the full Globe article, cut & paste this URL: Wall Street has not been kind to SDTI, from whom I have collected many checks for contract assignments over the years. Mr. Hettinga's explanation of the market's dynamics is, at the very least, guaranteed to stimulate. Hettinga's apparent scorn for modern cryptography's obsession with strong authentication -- now manifest in the intensity with which professionals worry the issues around PKC binding, key certification, digital signatures, CA procedures (and in the demand for smartcards to secure X509 certs apart from the networked CPU) -- bespeaks a truly iconoclastic mind. What tucked me in for the night was the declaration -- from R.H., the avatar of DBTS, e-cash, and geodesic recursive auctions -- that (venture) capital is or will be counterproductive to entreprenurial enterprise in the New Age. Un huh. Doomed, as well, by the hesitation inherent in the merely human minds that control its flow (at least in Rob's universe of cybernetic fiscal structures.) Said Mr. Hettinga: > It's beginning to look like venture capital is an >industrial phenomenon, requiring correspondingly long >ramp-up times, and it may be that geodesic markets move too >fast for any "consensus" of the investment community to be >achieved and, um, capitalized upon, soon enough to make >money on a consistent basis, or at least in the presence of >a savvy management team. Gotta love a guy who can write a sentence like that, knot and and double-knot it into a gangly tapestry -- and then glue the whole thing across a wonderful image like a "dirigible biplane." (That's a Hettinga vehicle is ever there was one. Even in the imagination, it pushes or pulls large amounts of gas around in an unusually muscular way;-) Suerte, _Vin ----- "Cryptography is like literacy in the Dark Ages. Infinitely potent, for good and ill... yet basically an intellectual construct, an idea, which by its nature will resist efforts to restrict it to bureaucrats and others who deem only themselves worthy of such Privilege." _ A Thinking Man's Creed for Crypto _vbm. * Vin McLellan + The Privacy Guild + * 53 Nichols St., Chelsea, MA 02150 USA <617> 884-5548 From tcmay at got.net Thu Oct 22 22:45:15 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 13:45:15 +0800 Subject: Cryptographic Dog Stocks, The Dirigible Biplane, and Sending theWizards Back to Menlo Park In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 9:18 PM -0700 10/22/98, Vin McLellan wrote: > Hettinga essays are like handball games: the damn ball is >ricocheting off the side walls, both ends, the floor and the ceiling. >Linear coherence and internal consistency are less important than the >electrostatic energy and the rolling rhetorical thunder -- so hey, no big >deal if he's a little frisky and expansive with the facts, right? I've been a critic of some of Bob's "exuberance," his tendency to go off on rhetorical flights of fancy, his irritating "ums" and "ers" and ":-}"s, and his generally opaque writing style. I think there's a kernel of good thinking in there, but his attention seems to flit about. And he seems more interesting in cutesy turns of phrase than in persuasive exposition. If there's stuff there, it's lost in the freneticism. > Said Mr. Hettinga: > >> It's beginning to look like venture capital is an >>industrial phenomenon, requiring correspondingly long >>ramp-up times, and it may be that geodesic markets move too >>fast for any "consensus" of the investment community to be >>achieved and, um, capitalized upon, soon enough to make >>money on a consistent basis, or at least in the presence of >>a savvy management team. > > Gotta love a guy who can write a sentence like that, knot and and >double-knot it into a gangly tapestry -- and then glue the whole thing >across a wonderful image like a "dirigible biplane." > > (That's a Hettinga vehicle is ever there was one. Even in the >imagination, it pushes or pulls large amounts of gas around in an unusually >muscular way;-) Indeed. I guess some folks are amazed that anyone can write the way Bob does. Me, I was never amazed by the writings of Detweiler, Toto, or Hettinga. --Tim May Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From geeman at best.com Thu Oct 22 23:19:47 1998 From: geeman at best.com (geeman at best.com) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:19:47 +0800 Subject: Censored news topic censored ... Message-ID: <3.0.32.19981022224257.02b8c9a8@shell15.ba.best.com> I don't speak up here much but I can't let this go: the next time you hear William Buckley on the Commonwealth Club broadcast on NPR, or hear the almost-commercial-broadcast-length squibs that pretend to be underwriter attributions but which are really tiny little commercials for ADM "Supermarket to the World" or Wells Fargo "Making Your Time Count," ask yourself who NPR is really working for, and set your expectations accordingly. Then send your checks to Pacifica to support free-speech radio. At 03:00 PM 10/22/98 -0700, Mark Hedges wrote: > >It sounds like even the enlightened folks at NPR don't have the guts >to stand up and say something about issues as critical as expanded >FBI powers over citizens and the sneaky tricks used to pass those laws. > >It's not really a big surprise, though. Monica Lewinsky's blowjobs >take precedence over incredulous claims like 'NSA SPIES ON EVERYONE' >and 'FBI MONITORS YOU WITHOUT WARRANTS'. > >They will have to live with their own lack of character. So will we. > >Mark Hedges > > >At 1:13 PM -0700 10/22/98, Ernest Hua wrote: >>Dear TOTN at NPR, >> >>This is most distressing. I was one of the very first >>callers to your Talk of the Nation show today whose >>topic was relevant news reporting in the US. My topic >>was the lack of reporting on the FBI's last minute >>sneak of the roving wire tap proposal into the >>intelligence budget bill. I wanted Ray to talk about >>the editorial process and how these things get dropped >>on the floor as this item is extremely important to >>our democracy because it is an agency charged with >>protecting our Constitutional rights (the FBI) who is >>deliberately circumventing the democratic legislative >>process to pass a law which was sounded defeated two >>years ago in open debate. >> >>Ironically, my topic was censored, and I waited an >>hour, while other people wanted to discuss things >>like how they can vent about their divorce >>difficulties through the Monica Lewinsky scandal, only >>to be dropped in the end. >> >>Would any of the NPR staff or Mr. Suarez would like >>to explain just what happened here? >> >>Ern >> >>-------- >>Ernest Hua, TeraLogic Inc, 1300 Villa St, Mountain View, CA 94041 >>(650) 526-6064, hua at teralogic-inc.com > > > >________________________________________________________________ > Mark Hedges hedges at infopeace.com www.infopeace.com > > "One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard > a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish > a dictatorship." O'Brien from 1984, George Orwell >________________________________________________________________ > > > > From tcmay at got.net Thu Oct 22 23:51:48 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:51:48 +0800 Subject: UK Government unveils crypto escrow legislation In-Reply-To: <199810230147.SAA25775@toad.com> Message-ID: >Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:38:10 +0100 >From: Malcolm Hutty >To: declan at well.com >Subject: UK Government unveils crypto escrow legislation > >The UK government has announced legislation designed to force >escrow of confidentiality keys on UK netizens. > >They are planning a licenced system of Certificate Authorities in an >attempt to force key escrow down the throats of British computer >users. This could be a model for other governments. The idea is >that digital signatures get preferential legal treatment if certified by >a licenced CA, but to get a licence you must escrow confidentiality >keys. So much for the notion espoused by Labor supporters, notably Philip Hallam-Baker, that the Tony Blair government would of course never support the evil policies originally floated by the Conservatives. Yeah, like George Bush wouldn't have supported Clipper had he won in '92. --Tim May Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de Fri Oct 23 00:38:51 1998 From: mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de (Mok-Kong Shen) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 15:38:51 +0800 Subject: PRNGs and testers. In-Reply-To: <19981021151835.A26267@krdl.org.sg> Message-ID: <36303797.B5679722@stud.uni-muenchen.de> David Honig wrote: > Recall that Ueli's Universal Statistical Test > is valid only for real sources of entropy. > PRNGs have zero entropy asymptotically ;-) Sorry that I haven't yet understood. Could you explain a bit more from the entropy point of view? In my opinion, a statistical test does not and should not take into account how a sequence being tested is obtained. Given is simply a sequence and no other information and the test should give an answer. M. K. Shen From vznuri at netcom.com Fri Oct 23 01:28:22 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 16:28:22 +0800 Subject: echelon in UK Message-ID: <199810230759.AAA23532@netcom13.netcom.com> echelon is getting a *lot* of european coverage in their newspapers and magazines over the last few weeks/months. I find this quite remarkable. here in the US where we pride ourselves on civil freedom, the public does not even *squeak* about the massive NSA superstructure. but the european community is starting to get fidgety and uppity. I sincerely hope that this pressure can be increased. it would be quite ironic if the nsa began to feel heat by *outside* countries, without the slightest raised eyebrow by the submissive, prostrate US taxpayer even as they suck up something like 50 odd billion dollars a year out of our budget without a trace. personally I think an awesome cypherpunk project/campaign would be an info-fight against the NSA. a guerrila style campaign in which people try to plaster the message everywhere, and "hack" the mainstream media. the time is ripe, with the echelon brouhaha. it's a pity that hackers spend their time fighting over somethig like Kevin Mitnick when they could truly change the us govt as we know it. I propose a continued, cyberguerilla campaign to put the NSA into the public light and make them squirm as much as a spook can do so (and I'm certain they are *very* squirmy) From vznuri at netcom.com Fri Oct 23 01:30:21 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 16:30:21 +0800 Subject: IP: Enhanced Ability to Tap Cell Phones Message-ID: <199810230804.BAA23905@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Enhanced Ability to Tap Cell Phones Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 11:21:56 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com Source: Washington Post http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/washtech/cell1022.htm Federal Plan Would Enhance Police Ability to Tap Cell Phones By Jeannine Aversa Associated Press Writer Thursday, October 22, 1998; 11:16 a.m. EDT WASHINGTON - Law enforcement officials say they need to know where a suspected criminal is when he makes a cellular telephone call. Federal regulators are proposing to give them the capability to find out. The Federal Communications Commission without dissent proposed today that cellular phone companies make technical changes so the FBI, police and other law enforcers - as long as a court approves - can locate a person talking on a mobile phone. This and other additional wiretapping capabilities being proposed aim to help law enforcers keep pace with technology. With some 66 million cellular phone customers, police want the authority to legally tap cell phones to track down drug dealers, terrorists and kidnappers. But some groups worry that such a practice could violate privacy. The location proposal is part of a larger plan to implement a 1994 law that requires telecommunications companies to make changes in their networks so police are able to carry out court-ordered wiretaps in a world of digital technology. The proposal is based on a plan from the telecommunications industry. "We think this is a positive step forward," said Stephen Colgate, the Justice Department's assistant attorney general for administration. "In many kidnapping cases, it would have been very helpful to have location information." But James Dempsey, counsel to the Center for Democracy and Technology, a privacy group, said: "We're prepared to fight this one every step of the way." FCC Chairman Bill Kennard stressed that police would have no access to locations without a court order. "A lot of people are saying the FCC will turn mobile phones into tracking devices for the FBI and invade Americans' privacy. I don't believe that will be the case," Kennard said. With a court order, police already can legally listen in to cell phone conversations, and, in some instances, get information on the caller's location. But not every company has the technical ability to provide a caller's location. This proposal, if adopted, would set up a nationwide requirement for companies to follow. The legal standard for obtaining a location is lower than the standard for a wiretap order in which police must show a judge there is probable cause of criminal activity. Under the proposal, police would only need to show the location is relevant to an investigation. Privacy groups say that means the government could easily track the movements not only of a suspect, but also of associates, friends or relatives. It would give police the ability to obtain the cellular phone user's location at the beginning and end of a wiretapped call. The proposal would provide police with that information based on the cellular tower, or "cell" site, where a call originated and ended. That would give information on the caller's location within several city blocks in an urban area to hundreds of square miles in a rural area. The FBI had been seeking more exact location information. The FCC also is expected to tentatively conclude that companies must give police, as long as a court approves, additional capabilities - beyond minimum technical standards already proposed by the industry - so their ability to conduct wiretaps won't be thwarted. The additional capabilities being sought by the FBI that were advanced by the FCC include: -Giving police the ability to listen in on the conversations of all people on a conference call, even if some are put on hold and no longer talking to the target of a wiretap. -Giving police the ability to get information when the wiretap target has put someone on hold or dropped someone from a conference call; and to know if the wiretap target has used dialing features - such as call waiting or call forwarding. -Giving police the number dialed by a wiretap target when the suspect, for instance, uses a credit or calling card at a pay phone. Privacy groups and the telephone industry contend the additional capabilities sought by the FBI go beyond the 1994 law and are an attempt to broaden wiretapping powers. The FBI says it merely wants to preserve the ability to conduct legal wiretaps in a world of constantly changing technology. The FCC is involved because the Justice Department, FBI and the telecommunications industry, after three years of negotiations, were unable to reach agreement on the larger plan for implementing the 1994 law. All interested parties will get a chance to offer opinions on the proposal, which could be revised. Kennard wants a final plan adopted by the end of the year. � Copyright 1998 The Associated Press ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From mix at anon.lcs.mit.edu Fri Oct 23 01:38:48 1998 From: mix at anon.lcs.mit.edu (lcs Mixmaster Remailer) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 16:38:48 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <19981023080004.20320.qmail@nym.alias.net> owF3VkuLHLkN9cab9CXgfYUWvoDD+lgzDmlGMTMRY3uHJJFJuEgixU+Vsu/kO/oh 2+wdeFSzSOD9gP/+6S/rH/uIWv+Anw9tRh1qlb5OrUHGBZs1aC5SaW9c48YjSaOQ NMdV20g0yaZ25cpLk2Pmrg+54es2mIKOpoH6wK02Oy5Zr5MzNdFKa+Z+JCn+j26F F65D6lkIT8g2M9lxWL+qebMs7+whdbSTihYNd6078Xr2fqM9c7HmtxwogBsPw7Eh 5Rg3vORVxoXzkXhFP/ssBZdIC7Mp5zdEP1jDu7RyzhxJa5SsaxbaOW75XByGJn3Q wRn/bIbnKaBWASSbjr8SfdGBp0LiPrQLlYqmqoYbRdZ+vqHlwwxZI3BQ3JvsSZ1j zLLyTl1XzbjtRlUmLp89zMyNfrECGHu2nesSrH6d0lDsW24jyxikZW22ZzX6sWlP hR2kL2BFD2rcZMO79JmBRJfG18EO0l6snEGGdDT6YCDgLx+z93NBTdoLHdYO8zaC ncTbxo5F5ZOS1CD0SSACCADEPnTiOMiwbVtcL1pRMmhd6aFhaEEF77jLSVE2f4n2 8+jTP37bWHP228qUvGzQ2KW6xEc2jScerxtgF+eH5w6opazcdkPln1hj5qf3+/4L Csg2cOxXriGhyWI20mpN6PcEXhS1Hs3iDIOyGfr6uae79bREhVIKpBcCznwozk1P PEA3vmAb/Wd+GwwJCl76GZD/S3jHyZa0GuHCJC6/gbOHYy05owOJO/rl48he+7/R 1LJBF64VgRY53OkJfYMXW7PuQpe+muwVYD79JNQQCaK4o2VpOmZfVu3j4qEfEvBg D3aAWJAdxIX/RWqiX6GY9rhg1XJY1iGQ/wF1yNIlKiw8LnlLhLDmimc3IAsOagXg 3FZLZ4R9IH0cBWGwycuLLbCpNhh2g1zajZ7yGgFAZmz6jcosXlqa9e5IF4WCdbhx Njiz8EVs0BZw6L3VysTRvezOns5m46KOw+Y4RIL+UfRYNkHr5Gj0wIf3zkFC423A dpvbbyQ0gkB5wrxQHwpPEuG8Pl5dG6FCnBjcQoIGQclVy2dosk082LkK/aI7IxU0 sst7r9zTbQGAzdYLcpgigRd0DD+jVHaKPX6cHMRavULkn9K+QZq/S3NsYPnP4TOo AIYdJN3pI7RcV8mD3tq6ot1+tnngRos7TBOyzQhEn24t4Nzv54JsrKC0GjLgJPji CXU2V9XfGWh6ANM/+MFoZEc+XShb3ZFVHWmwcLTDP7y5ifVqLs2CioHHuAIQjoTm UYP00PRAbKKcohUKWA6nzaPjAQTACnQCE0N8dtnpAHkulHW+vCBu/GySXPxhShoh uKe1OGDym3sKyvhsSIfuERjuQBWRkY0jwvMjeFil7TDZp1mj/+mRKiBN3JwIafdI m/3izkDsw6mlfGK2vPEL7MG1Kgwt5TX0gnvReZKnJ1nntTHqz6jfOfW0eLJnJaqD UTCmJmo+MMe6x9SmOxLKU7YIEiCZDzE46tydbRI8B8jcTjuESM+k5Yb4rNHb/wnu YB8nFb+OFR50EwTvQgsHTB+rd6TiT9aenO8Lctksr4jbB0chAGMR7vUZC6QbO+ie M7rKBTAAxbEjq/fyZ0hNDcVg7sDcPjc9ZFbDB0++e3CeghHZO/Jsp7/15I7yZG4T VFzkLCHNUVFRtjAx6TB0J5UTLAf6bbY7HIB4fdjJDdFR1cMNQY+52hEmS7sERpvV 6DmADLHDwXVy3sLw6hKyuSe/2acrSoM3Zsec9tE2dJ+eBIU9z66Nw7MJgveJ7nPc mf/BkGzIhQTRQfrzuJKz4nmBrzKCA7kcu+KZSwTfnvjUQ2xtgrm+YYcpwIO65xdc Bp1H30bCufgS0loyH9HVnogtnPu+npzAE572aQOWoNyACfjGFVol2wEC6B3YO/Fk wIKRYJrizsLaIyFDV978sXwSn9FQ9nvBXMOOM+EUXyxOLDBzYKT4GjQPdxzwwbSz HMGeVmhF8PFtqRA2FqJOl4ivMRGnuS7pgOmxF4E7iNzDNUEvyMRylfrWZlv5rssX AIhQotU8pfq1YgQrbvb1NQmweQzI7jVdMbIGkhP9L98fcIP9ODifV2oAfrTqcKvv hkwfkIs+m5pebAOvgiT6fpDec50rQtY9MegjOnS7+wiFYAJBJNWJfYcF6E7fV6Fl TMwFH11jvu6mKGu8riA+wf2LHglCL1JdH77nAAnQCFwxC7orga7V4WDsZdnJ/K3x Q7sngWQErgccvqC4dfqG9f9B3cAddgRgVLBLiDztWrT+Bw== =zoKi From nobody at replay.com Fri Oct 23 02:59:08 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 17:59:08 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199810230921.LAA04316@replay.com> At 12:17 AM 10/23/98 +0200, Anonymous wrote: >Trees cannot be indicted for assasination > >-Bono Kennedy Which prosecutor was it who said that he could get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich if he wanted to? From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Fri Oct 23 06:59:52 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 21:59:52 +0800 Subject: dbts: The Economic Cause of Privacy (fwd) Message-ID: <199810231328.IAA11609@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:25:16 +0200 > From: Anonymous > From: bman at barn.pct > Subject: Re: dbts: The Economic Cause of Privacy > There is no financial privacy because because those who would like such thing > have less power (hired guns) than those who would not like it. That is certainly a valid way of looking at the situation after the laws are enacted. However, the situation leading up to the laws being created probably didn't involve (c)overt violent implications. I would posit that we have no financial privacy is because prior to now (pre-ubiquitous computers) there was a significant cost in compiling the information because copies had to be made, people involved, etc. This is all going away. The base infrastructure changed radicaly and this is bound to effect those aspects that rely (recognized or not) on specific characteristics (eg cost to retrieve a single page) will see their 'balance of power' change. > be lost, and population harvesting (aka taxing) would have to be radically > changed, and that is expensive. The system is self-supporting. One potential view of this situation is that the tax burden in a post-computer economy is significantly different than in a pre-computer economy. In particular examine the primary source of taxes. Individuals look to become very ephemeral entities in the near term increasing the costs to the regulators (local, county, state, federal, special) to monitor compliance. What is needed is a long-lived, well know contact point between the source of funds wishing to be taxed and the sink of those same funds. The most obvious is the business or entity sourcing funds. Because of regulatory issues such organizations need plenty of documentation in order to do business. Business has as one of its principle goals long-term profit (excluding short-term business only for convenience and brevity) which implies long-term existance. In a computer managed economy the primary tax point should be the retailer or VAR passed along to the consumer via increased prices (compensated for by increased paychecks). This also has the potential for eliminating (or at least reducing significantly) the amount of registration and forms that need to be done. Such issues could be taken care of at the time of transaction and anonymously. This could also be used to impliment a flat tax system that automaticaly takes care of those who are poor. Exempt basic housing, food and clothing items much like now. Since the poorer members of society don't buy things like CD's and new jackets each year they aren't burdened by those tax responsibilties. > Idea that somehow smart algorithms will bring financial privacy is a good starting > point for cryptoaddict's wet dream, but in reality has the same chance of > success as survival rate of armed citizens against the government. Zero. Hm, I thought that's how this country was formed 200+ years ago... Actualy people will bring financial privacy via smart algorithms (perhaps). This will occur when there is either a compeling reason to do it or there is simply no other way to reach the next platue of technology/civil gestalt. > Use of government-controlled, issued and supervised payment methods/instruments > is in place because it is proscribed, not because "money/checks, etc. exist". True, history traces money back to the dawn of human history when the concept of government is not really applicable (though despot might be). The groups were simply too small and non-interactive with other groups to really class them as a full blown economy. As those groups grew and increased their interactivity the need for regulating the economy became clearer and clearer. Those who took on the job obviously wanted something for their labors so taxes were born. As time went on the roll of taxes increased to include civil support. > Money is a highly artificial entity in the first place. It is "natural" to > use currency-binded valuation as it is natural to go to church. And theorizing > on money and economy in general has similarities to religious rituals. Without getting into what natural means (I can't take another theism discussion right now); there must be something 'natural' or universal about money since widely seperate and uncommunicative societies have invented the concept when other as simple technologies didn't translate (compare the Egyptian and Aztec use of the wheel - the Aztecs didn't though they knew of it by using it on toys). > Therefore constructing computer-assisted anon payment schemes "because it is > cheaper that way" is pointless. Not if one of your goals is to decrease cost. This won't suffice for the sole motivation however. So at least to some degree we agree. > Money is not there to make your life easier. > Money exists so that you can be taxed and conditioned to desired behaviour at > minimal cost. I'll have to disagree. Money exists to ease the transfer of goods across geographic and social boundaries, it's a level of abstraction above straight barter. Taxation is a mechanism for those geographic an social boundaries to continue to exist while hopefuly providing useful services. > The only way for society (or loosely coupled individuals) to function without > abstractions like money (that need organized gun power to maintain) is direct > exchange of goods and services with enforcement based on close relationships > between parties. Has been tried, several thousand years ago, and such societies > were annihilated by others who did organize. Which seems to be the fate of any > anarchism in general. These sorts of societal arrangements historicaly don't support the thesis of anarchism being the root cause of the failure. As a matter of fact, historicaly there is no example (not even the Icelandic Anarchists traded with the mainland to a great degree) of a interacting set of societies that supported an economy involving a anarchy that I am aware of. There are plenty of examples where (near) anarchist societies have destroyed economies and socieities. The primary problem is one of wastage. In a barter economy the amount of value implicit in every exchange varies greatly. If you trade a chicken for a duck from one customer and a pig from another, does that mean they should trade a duck for a pig between themselves? Since the pig farmer doesn't want a duck since he bought a chicken from me how does the duck vendor entice the pig owner into buying his duck (especialy when he needs the pig to feed his family as this is his last duck and pigs are bigger than ducks). Then there is the issue of geography and how a duck is worth less in the middle of duck-raising land than in the middle of no-ducks-to-be-seen land. Money stabalizes the swings in the individual transactions and causes the economic system as a whole to be more stable and predictable. Perhaps what we really need to be looking for is a economic model that is dynamic but predictable to a very great degree. Though I must admit that looks suspicously like some sort of communism/socialism 'share everything equaly' style of governments. Though, if you could seperate the monetary aspects of a government from the legal/social side it could work. Probably at least one of the seperate-but-equal aspects of a polycratic model; Religion - Economics - Criminal - Legislative - Executive - Military (external) - Militia (internal) - Science/Technology - Medicine ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz Fri Oct 23 07:02:56 1998 From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 22:02:56 +0800 Subject: Break DES Fast! Message-ID: <90914889921502@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz> Dear Friend, My name is Dave Rhodes. In 1997 my cipher designs had all been broken, my patents declared without merit, and NIST had rejected my preliminary AES submission. Then in early 1998 I received a letter in the mail telling me how I could earn fame as a cryptographer whenever I wanted. I was naturally very skeptical and threw the letter on the desk next to my computer. It's funny though, when you are desperate, backed into a corner, your mind does crazy things. I spent a frustating day looking through the DES S-boxes for better differentials, but the pickings were sparse at best. That night I tried to unwind by reading a few security newsgroups. I read several of the posts and then glanced at the letter next to the computer. All at once it came to me, I now had the key to my dreams. This year I presented a paper at Crypto'98 and have one accepted for Eurocrypt'99. Cryptographers from all over the world come to me for advice, and NIST has asked me to be on the AES evaluation board. I will have my own crypto conference within 4 or 5 months. Anyone can do the same. This crypto method works perfectly every time, 100% of the time. Best of all you never have to leave home except to go to your mailbox or post office. I realized that with the power of the computer I could expand and enhance this method into the most unbelievable system that has ever been created. I substituted email in place of the post office and electronically did by computer what others were doing 100% by mail. Most of the hard work is speedily handled by computers throughout the world. If you believe that someday you deserve that lucky break that you have waited for all your life, simply follow the easy instructions below. Your dreams will come true. Sincerely yours, Dave Rhodes INSTRUCTIONS Follow these instructions EXACTLY, and in 20 to 60 days you will have searched well over 50 trillion DES keys. This program has remained successful because of the honesty and integrity of the participants. Please continue its success by carefully adhering to the instructions. 1. Immediately send the following ciphertext/plaintext pair below to ten friends: 12F7E88920:0A2DE3172B 2. Remove the searched keyspace that appears at number 1 on the list below. Move the other 9 sets of searched keyspaces up one position. Number 2 will become number 1 and number 3 will become number 2, etc. Place the keyspace you've searched in the number 10 position. 3. Post the message with the keyspace you've tried in the number 10 position into 10 separate newsgroups or mailing lists, call the file BREAK.DES.FAST. 4. Within 60 days you will receive over 50 trillion further DES keys which people have tried. This is not a scam. This is perfectly legal. If you have any doubts, refer to 22 USC Sec 2778. [Keyspace list snipped] From mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de Fri Oct 23 07:49:51 1998 From: mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de (Mok-Kong Shen) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 22:49:51 +0800 Subject: Break DES Fast! In-Reply-To: <90914889921502@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz> Message-ID: <36309E91.6A5F6688@stud.uni-muenchen.de> Peter Gutmann wrote: > > Dear Friend, > > My name is Dave Rhodes. In 1997 my cipher designs had all been broken, my I don't know the English term but in my native language what is described is call 'chaining letters', supposed to be a method to become rich very rapidly. That was illegal, though. M. K. Shen From wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org Fri Oct 23 08:14:30 1998 From: wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org (Rabid Wombat) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 23:14:30 +0800 Subject: Break DES Fast! In-Reply-To: <36309E91.6A5F6688@stud.uni-muenchen.de> Message-ID: On Fri, 23 Oct 1998, Mok-Kong Shen wrote: > Peter Gutmann wrote: > > > > Dear Friend, > > > > My name is Dave Rhodes. In 1997 my cipher designs had all been broken, my > > I don't know the English term but in my native language what is > described is call 'chaining letters', supposed to be a method to > become rich very rapidly. That was illegal, though. > > M. K. Shen > > I don't know what your native language is, but in english, what is described is known as a joke. ROFLMAO. From athena at cyberpass.net Fri Oct 23 08:39:13 1998 From: athena at cyberpass.net (Pallas Anonymous Remailer) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 23:39:13 +0800 Subject: Is Your Web Site A Secret? Message-ID: launch at launchmaster.com wrote: > > Is your web site the best kept secret on the Internet? > > We'll promote it to 50 search engines and indexes for $85 > and complete the job in 2 business days. Satisfaction is > guaranteed! > ... > > WHAT SEARCH ENGINES AND INDEXES ARE INCLUDED IN THE > PROMOTION? > > The list changes from time to time. This is our current list: > > Alta Vista, Anzwers, AOL Netfind, BizCardz Business Directory, Bizlink, > BizWeb, Black Widow Search, Excite, Galaxy, HotBot, Infomak, Infoseek, > InfoSpace, InterBis, Jayde Online Directory, Jumpcity, Jumper Hot Links, JumpLink, > LinkMonster, Lycos, MangaSeeker, Manufacturers Information Network, > Net Happenings, Net Announce, New Page List, New Riders WWW Yellow Pages, > Northern Light, One World Plaza, PeekABoo, Planet Search, Power Crawler, > QuestFinder, Scrub The Web, Seven Wonders, SiteFinder, SiteShack, Super Snooper, > The YellowPages.com, TurnPike, Unlock: The Information Exchange, WebCrawler, > WebVenture Hotlist, WhatUSeek, Where2Go, WhoWhere, World Announce Archive, > Wow! Web Wonders!, YeeHaa!, Yellow Pages Superhighway, YelloWWWeb, Your Webscout, > ZenFinder. > I notice dorkslayers isn't on your list. I think you should add it. From nobody at remailer.ch Fri Oct 23 08:42:39 1998 From: nobody at remailer.ch (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 23:42:39 +0800 Subject: Gilmore Subpoena Message-ID: <19981023152334.2292.qmail@hades.rpini.com> John Young wrote: > > Source: Fax from John Gilmore > > [Form] > > AO 110 (Rev. 12/89) Subpoena to Testify Before Grand Jury > _______________________________________________________________________ > > UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT > WESTERN DISTRICT OF WASHINGTON > _______________________________________________________________________ > > To: > John Gilmore SUBPOENA TO TESTIFY > 210 Clayton Street BEFORE GRAND JURY > San Francisco, CA 94117 > > SUBPOENA FOR: > [X] PERSON [X] DOCUMENT(S) OBJECT(S) > > YOU ARE HEREBY COMMANDED to appear before the Grand Jury of the United > States District Court at the place, date and time specified below. > ... > YOU ARE ALSO COMMANDED to bring with you the following document(s) or > object(s):* > > c. Any an all messages, correspondence, or e-mail, > received from or involving CARL JOHNSON, C.J. PARKER, > TOTO, TRUTHMONGER, A FIEND, to specifically include > correspondence received from CARL JOHNSON while he was > in Federal custody. Please include _this_. I herebery swear that I wrote all messages signed "Toto", "TruthMonger" and "A Fiend" sent to the various cypherpunks lists and I am definitely *not* CARL JOHNSON, or C.J. PARKER. Toto From mix at anon.lcs.mit.edu Fri Oct 23 08:53:05 1998 From: mix at anon.lcs.mit.edu (lcs Mixmaster Remailer) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 23:53:05 +0800 Subject: rules of engagement Message-ID: <19981023152002.24725.qmail@nym.alias.net> Adam Back wrote: > > Re. the discussion of things like "first they came for Jim Bell, but I > didn't speak up because I wasn't a tax protester, and then they came > for Toto but I didn't speak up because I'm not crazy", etc. > > The rules of the game from what I can see is that if one is outspoken, > one either needs to be squeaky clean, or have enough funds to hire > good lawyers, or to be anonymous. [Notwithstanding my preference for the latter]... Is it the cypherpunk response to back off with our tail between our legs? I hope not. I smiled when I read about Toto's plans to appear in court in a perl-RSA T-shirt. Toto has balls so big he needs a wheel barrow to get around. > That is to say, I suspect that Jim would not have been locked up if he > had not a) used false social security numbers, b) not been involved > with fake courts, c) not collected IRS employees home addresses, and > d) not planted the stink bomb. And, more importantly, if crypto-anachy and removal of governments weren't on the cypherpunk agenda. Lets not pretend that Jim and Toto (and to a lesser degree the scrutinee J Choate) are not scapegoats for all of our opinions. > The AP rants are perfectly defensible free speech and free-wheeling > political discussion. Yes. "defensible", but they weren't defended. Jim pleaded. As would anyone in the face of sufficient pressure. > Similarly with Toto, the rants would have been ok, without a) the > mockup non-functional "bomb" symbolically planted in the court house > basement or where-ever it was, b) using real IRS employees, and judges > names in his rant (apparently in support of Jim Bell), c) having > tourettes syndrome. The rants are ok anyway. They are clearly metaphors. But the prosecutors aren't playing fair. The man is "dangerous". And not because he wrote "bomb" in crayon on a cardboard box. But because he made waves. Waves that we caught. Waves that the straights and sheeple might catch. > His rants, > when he was coherent, were well written, and humorously sarcastic > observations about the increasingly facist state. > > Just an observation. Just. > Having blemishes, or being vulnerable in some way makes one an easy > target for governments. Tourettes syndrome clearly isn't helping > Toto's case -- they can basically lock him up as "crazy and dangerous" > or whatever for as long as they like with no pretense of trial or > anything if it came to it. I thought this might be because of his excessive use of metaphor rather than a persecution of a medical condition unrelated to mental competence. > Clearly I think one should be able to say wtf one wants to, and in > general I endeavor to do just that. But I am suggesting that > cypherpunks individually stear clear of grey areas, such as ... > Tim May style "I've got X number of now illegal armament Y", I took the frequency of little Timmy May's 2nd ammendment rifs as a sign that he was clean on that score. (Tim always seems to be a couple of steps ahead). > My comment is that cypherpunks might be trying to hasten the demise of > the nation state by deployment of tools of identity and financial > privacy so that the individual can free himself from the burdens of > the state, but cypherpunks themselves (at least the non-anonymous > ones) should be squeaky clean. > > Write code, let someone else do the tax protesting, gun law > protesting, and let someone else have the personalised arguments with > over-zealous government employees. > > Financial privacy and anonymity code, is the most caustic > anti-government expression one can utter. > > Adam > -- You seem a bit down at the end there. > print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> > )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Message-ID: Looks for a real opportunity for civil liberty groups to sponsor Cellular Crowds gatherings. By this I mean a place where people can exchange pre-paid cellular phones. Since they are becoming a commodity (cost, features, etc.) I wouldn't mind swapping mine for someone elses as long as the amount on the card is the same. Pre-paid air time is still at quite a premium and roaming is generally restricted, but improving all the time. --Steve From rah at shipwright.com Fri Oct 23 09:25:10 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 00:25:10 +0800 Subject: IP: Teleportation Study: Beam Me Up Scotty... Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Delivered-To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com X-Sender: believer at telepath.com Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 07:40:16 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Teleportation Study: Beam Me Up Scotty... Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Precedence: list Reply-To: believer at telepath.com Source: CNN http://cnn.com/TECH/science/9810/22/science.teleport.reut/ Spooky teleportation study brings future closer October 22, 1998 Web posted at: 4:50 PM EDT WASHINGTON (Reuters) - They may not be able to ask Scotty to beam them up yet, but California researchers said Thursday they had completed the first "full" teleportation experiment. They said they had teleported a beam of light across a laboratory bench. They did not physically transport the beam itself, but transmitted its properties to another beam, creating a replica of the first beam. "We claim this is the first bona fide teleportation," Jeff Kimble, a physics professor at the California Institute of Technology, said in a telephone interview. Kimble thinks the experiment can eventually transform everyday life. Scientists hope that quantum computers, which move information about in this way rather than by using wires and silicon chips, will be infinitely faster and more powerful than present-day computers. "I believe that quantum information is going to be really important for our society, not in five years or 10 years, but if we look into the 100-year time frame it's hard to imagine that advanced societies don't use quantum information," Kimble said. "The appetite of society is so voracious for the moving and processing of information that it will be driven to exploit even the crazy realm of quantum physics." Quantum teleportation allows information to be transmitted at the speed of light -- the fastest speed possible -- without being slowed down by wires or cables. The experiment depends on a property known as entanglement -- what Albert Einstein once described as "spooky action at a distance." It is a property of atomic particles that mystifies even physicists. Sometimes two particles that are a very long distance apart are nonetheless somehow twinned, with the properties of one affecting the other. "Entanglement means if you tickle one the other one laughs," Kimble said. In the weird world of quantum physics, where the normal ideas of what is solid or what is real do not apply, scientists can use these properties to their advantage. What Kimble's team did was create two entangled light beams -- streams of photons. Photons, the basic unit of light, sometimes act like particles and sometimes like waves. They used these two entangled beams to carry information about the quantum state of a third beam. The first two beams were destroyed in the process, but the third successfully transmitted its properties over a distance of about a yard , Kimble's team reported in the journal Science. Last December a team of physicists in Innsbruck, Austria and a month later another team in Rome said they did a similar thing, with single photons. But Kimble said his team was able to verify what they had done, and also used full light beams as opposed to single photons. "Ours is an important advance beyond that," he said. Although the Caltech team worked with light, Kimble thinks teleportation could be applied to solid objects. For instance, the quantum state of a photon could be teleported and applied to a particle, even to an atom. "Way beyond sex change operations and genetic engineering, the quantum state of one entity could be transported to another entity," Kimble said. "We think we know how to do that." In other words, an object's individual atoms would not be transported, but transmitting its properties could create a perfect replica. Could this mean the transporters of the television and movie science-fiction series Star Trek, which beam people and objects for huge distances, could one day be a reality? "I don't think anybody knows the answer," Kimble said. "Let's don't teleport a person -- let's teleport the smallest bacterium. How much entanglement would we need to teleport such a thing?" Would such a teleported bacterium actually be the same bacterium, or just a very good copy? "Again, no one knows for sure," Kimble said. But his team is working on it. Copyright 1998 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. � 1998 Cable News Network, Inc. All Rights Reserved. ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Fri Oct 23 09:31:44 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 00:31:44 +0800 Subject: dbts: Dunkin Donuts, The Mysticism of Identity, Venture Capital,and Talking Frogs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 12:18 AM -0400 on 10/23/98, Vin McLellan, speaking for legions of SDTI/RSADSI fans (and, evidently, retainers), wrote: > Jeeez, I hope no one else sprained a finger getting the current > stock price for Security Dynamics (SDTI). :-). > Robert Hettinga > took certain, ummm, dramatic liberties as he > paraphrased a Boston Globe column yesterday on Bay State stocks that had > "been discounted so deeply they raise eyebrows." Memory is a terrible thing to waste. It was midnight. The newspaper was in the trash in a Dunkin Donuts in Malden somewhere. So? Shoot me? :-). > "Security Dynamics Technologies Inc. of Bedford, a leader in computer > security and encryption, has fallen from an April high of 42 1/2 to 12 > yesterday. It traded as low as 6 two weeks ago." Close enough for an internet rant, I figure. If I though I needed a fact checker, I should go write a column for the Globe, right? Frankly, besides the Globe's greater-fool valuation of Verisign, which I seem to have left in that wastebasket in Malden where it belongs, I can hardly tell, in any gross sense, the difference between what I said about SDTI/RSADSI/Verisign from memory and the extended quote Vin blessed us with, which I have gratefully snipped here for brevity. Again, I didn't say that SDTI wasn't making money, or even that it didn't have a significant amount of cash on hand relative to its book value. Which, because I'm not looking at their annual report, I don't know for a fact, so don't, um, quote me; I only know what I remember from the papers. If in fact SDTI did have a large cash hoard, it would make it a buy even in Ben Graham's book. Which I said, if you remember. Okay. I inferred it. Maybe. :-). My point was, even in these days of sky high multiples, the market is deeply discounting SDTI to the "consensus" estimate of its future cash flow. Given SDTI's patent standing, and the extreme amount of substitutive competition for the patents it does control in the long term, the "consensus" opinion seems fair to me, including valuing the company, yes, it *was* two weeks ago, lower than the "value" of it's Verisign investment alone. > Hettinga essays are like handball games: the damn ball is > ricocheting off the side walls, both ends, the floor and the ceiling. > Linear coherence and internal consistency are less important than the > electrostatic energy and the rolling rhetorical thunder Marvellous. Glad to give you the exercise. I had fun writing it. Nice to know you had fun chasing my shots all over the court like that. Should I spot you a few more points next time, just to make it more interesting? > Hettinga's apparent scorn for modern cryptography's obsession with > strong authentication -- now manifest in the intensity with which > professionals worry the issues around PKC binding, key certification, > digital signatures, CA procedures (and in the demand for smartcards to > secure X509 certs apart from the networked CPU) -- bespeaks a truly > iconoclastic mind. Thank you. I think. Look, folks, "strong authentication" is not the problem. It's biometric *identity* which is the problem. Cryptography gives us the ability to do away with "identity"-based key-mapping altogether. A key is a permission to do something specific with a microprocessor, no more, or less. It doesn't "mean" anything else. Certainly, if you go back and look at the actual, legal, definitions of "signature", or "certificate", they don't mean what people like Verisign (or say, the State of Utah) says their authentication technology does. No offense to the august people who coined those appelations, including Whit Diffie, et. al., but the words "signature", or "certificate" just don't cut it, because they cause more confusion than they may be worth. (Just like "digital bearer settlement"? ...Naww... :-)) Anyway, control of a given cryptographic key is completely orthogonal to the idea of identity. You can map an identity to it, but you don't have to, because possession of the key is "permission", "authority", enough, all by itself. *Who* you give permission to, by name, fingerprint, or physical address, doesn't matter. And, possession of that key is *only* a function of cryptography and networks, and not law or biology. And, so, the *only* time you need a biometrically-identified key is when you're doing a book-entry transaction, which has been my point in this whole discussion. You can't send someone to jail for making the wrong book-entry unless you know who they are, of course. Fortunately, that will change someday, and probably sooner than most people in the transaction settlement business realize. Frankly, the only people who need to know someone's physical identity, or care about it, are the people who put money at risk in the first place, and only until the transacted money in question is in their firm control. The shorter a transaction's latency, the less you care who you're doing business with. Ultimately, if you're doing an instantaneous digital bearer transaction, you don't care at all, because it's underwriter validates the authenticity of the certificate (real use of the word) at the time of the transaction, and not the person who's giving them to you. Even your trust of the underwriter is driven by the reputation of the underwriter's *key* and not your knowlege of where the underwriter lives, right? I mean, you can trash the reputation of the underwriter just by presenting cryptographic proof of of the underwriter's fraud, making the underwriter lose more, on a net present value basis, than what he would gain from the value of the transaction in question, or even the pool of money in his reserve account. Besides, ultimately, creating hierarchies of "certificates" of those key-to-person maps, ala Verisign/X.BlaBla, is not only a waste of time economically, it's downright logically impossible. You run right into Russell's paradox and Goedel's result, for one thing. At the very least, you remove all the flexibility which makes the technology useful in the first place. So, yes, it's just like putting a giant hydrogen bag on a biplane in a misguided effort to make it fly better (to beat my metaphor like a dead horse). :-). Even Verisign, or Entrust, and certainly not Thawte, don't claim to sell certification hierarchies anymore. Probably because they ran smack-dab into a bunch of consistance/completeness paradoxes in trying to doing so. The only economical solution, is, of course, short-span *local* trust networks, where self reference is not a problem because the network makes no pretensions at completeness. Where a buyer trusts the seller's reputation to his own satisfaction because people *he* trusts say so, and, more important, the known public reputation of the seller is a good one. Certainly not that stranglehold on everyone's internet identity which is at the heart of whatever valuation the "consensus" currently wants to put on companies like Verisign. By the way, an economical solution to the problem, where the seller doesn't have to trust the buyer at all is, of course, digital bearer settlement. Anyway, this mystification of identity, particularly on an internet where it will prove economically foolish to do so, is what I have against the whole X.BlaBla, Grand Unified Human Namespace Hierarchy folks. They're chasing unicorns through the mists of Avalon, in my opinion. In the end, the only relations established by keys to other keys on the net will be *economic* ones, and I guarantee that the structure of *those* relationships, once mapped, will *not* be hierarical, and only unified on a relational basis, in the same way that free economies now function. Nor will the primary purpose of those keys be to find whatever physical person is controlling a given key at any point in its (probably short) lifetime. > What tucked me in for the night was the declaration -- from R.H., > the avatar of DBTS, e-cash, and geodesic recursive auctions -- that > (venture) capital is or will be counterproductive to entreprenurial > enterprise in the New Age. Un huh. Doomed, as well, by the hesitation > inherent in the merely human minds that control its flow (at least in Rob's > universe of cybernetic fiscal structures.) Well, I suppose if I can play fast and loose with the contents of the august Boston Globe in the middle of the night, you're welcome to mischaracterize me in the same fashion, but I hope I'm forgiven if I try to patch it up here, just a little bit. I think that venture capital spends most of its time thinking about how to establish industrial-era monopolies on intellectual property in a world where, eventually, it is only wetware -- skill, if you will -- that will matter. Software, hardware, and resources will ultimately be dependant activities and will decrease in relative value over time. Software will be utterly replicable and will be sold recursively, and untraceably, on a bearer basis, primarily because that's the cheapest way to safely trade money for information on a ubiquitous geodesic public network. Given that the price of information is rediculuously time-driven, the price-structure software markets will be such that not only will the only people who make the most money be people who actually *write* software and not hire it done, and that software will be sold in smaller and smaller bits because the transaction costs will be so low (hey, don't believe me, believe Ronald Coase :-)), but, finally, the only way to make *new* money is to create new software which sells. So, no software monopoly opportunity there, because, you need wetware to make software, and, in a world of totally anonymous, and cash transacted, free agency, fun legalistic attempts at physical control, like non-disclosures and non-competes, not to mention copyright and patent, will eventually be laughably un-useful. Eventually, hardware itself will be "made" using software, and the machines which fabricate hardware itself will themselves be dependant on software for their own construction. The price of manufacturing falls as a result, becomes geographically hyperdistributed, and, of course, nobody can control the production of software, see above. So, no permanent hardware monopoly there. Resources are, even now, discovered, grown or extracted using the best possible information, and in the long run, the best possible software. The ownership of land, therefore, will be *economically* determined by who has the best information or software to use it with. Notice that even with a finite supply of land, the value of a given piece of land's output, in real prices, has consistently fallen over history, because the value of the information used to generate that output falls over time as well, and the productivity gains from the use of that information are relatively permanent and cumulative. So, no permanent resource monopoly opportunities in resources, either. Ask your average aristocrat, or even a farmer, if you don't believe me. :-). So, yes, I'll let people quibble about how long "eventually" means, or even what their definition of "is" is :-), and, in that rather large economic lacuna, you could drive several late-industrial fortunes through, and we may or may not need venture capitalists to exploit on those market inefficiencies, right now, today. Nonetheless, we converge to a world where venture capital is a waste of time, and, I think that businesses like Yahoo, and several other internet ventures whose revenues are not under water, are proving that. For most first-mover internet companies, the continued interest of venture capitalists in your company may be, like cocaine, god's paradoxical way of telling you you're making a lot of money. The quest for economic rents is at the heart of any economy, certainly, but I think that, sooner or later, venture capitalists will simply be in the way between producers and the retained earning their customers are too only happy give them. Any requirement for equity itself will probably be underwritten directly to the public someday, and, if you want to call the intermediaries who underwrite that, what, micro-equity(?), "venture capitalists", you'll get a lot of argument from the people who already do equity underwriting today, the investment bankers. So, you're right, Vin. I *am* blaming venture capitalists for eventually not being able to think fast enough to keep up, and that, someday, most underwriting of equity itself will be an extremely automated process. Hell, most investment bankers themselves will tell you that underwriting is so mechanical these days that the only real money's in mergers and acquisitions, anyway. > Gotta love a guy who can write a sentence like that, knot and and > double-knot it into a gangly tapestry -- and then glue the whole thing > across a wonderful image like a "dirigible biplane." > > (That's a Hettinga vehicle is ever there was one. Even in the > imagination, it pushes or pulls large amounts of gas around in an unusually > muscular way;-) Thank you. Insult me any way you want, as long as you spell my name right, I guess. Dismissing me personally as an iconoclast doesn't dismiss what I've said, certainly. In the meantime, it's nice to know that I can say something about a public company in passing on a few email lists and drive so many of its shareholders, employees, and retainers to such vigorous distraction. My phone was ringing off the hook yesterday, which was, certainly, a lot of fun. In the meantime, Vin, hang on to your SDTI stock, but probably just for it's residual value to some future investor, like SDTI evidently bought RSADSI for its own residual value, and, aparently, for whatever mystical value the market now puts on Verisign. It's just a shame that RSADSI didn't just license all that cool crypto to the developers outright and make a whole lot more money, rather than playing dog in the manger with it for so long, up to, and probably including, calling the down export control Feds on a hapless kitchen-table crypto developer named Zimmermann. So, right now, after all that, um, exercise, SDTI/RSADSI/Verisign reminds me an awful lot of that old joke about the two old Texas spinsters who, walking down a dusty road, came across a talking frog claiming to turn into an oil baron, if only one of them would kiss him to prove it. "A talking frog", said one of them, putting the frog in her apron pocket, "is worth something." Cheers, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Fri Oct 23 09:39:45 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 00:39:45 +0800 Subject: dog stocks Message-ID: Don't shoot me, shoot the remailer operator. :-). *I* couldn't have said the following... Now, where *is* that Walter Winchell hat? Cheers, Bob Hettinga --- begin forwarded text Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 12:20:28 +0200 From: Anonymous Comments: This message did not originate from the Sender address above. It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer software. Please report problems or inappropriate use to the remailer administrator at . Subject: dog stocks To: Robert Hettinga Status: U of course this information should be laundered.... Remember Mr. McLellan is an SDTI partisan. SDTI *is* a dog stock. It has problems. (1) SecureID is decade-old technology. They are ripe for competitors to steal the business away from them, because of their business model. They've yet to come up with any second trick for that pony. (2) RSADSI is an anchor on the company. RSADSI revenues have been flat for six quarters; the most profitable thing they do is their little January conference -- except for owning part of Verisign. Sept. 30 2000 is fast approaching and they have no plan on how they will compete once they no longer have a patent to club people with. The most profitable thing SDTI could do would be to fire everyone in RSADSI, and use the monsy that would be spent on their salaries to invest heavily in smart cards. A --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From nobody at replay.com Fri Oct 23 09:39:47 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 00:39:47 +0800 Subject: CyberScam Message-ID: <199810231545.RAA01452@replay.com> At 09:03 PM 10/22/98 -0700, Kevlar wrote: >And you were just kidding..... I wasn't kidding. I was absolutely sincere when I told him to shove a bowling ball up his ass. >http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/zdnn_smgraph_display/0,4436,2151220,00.html >Or search zdnet's site for "scam" and choose "A Bull In Bull Market". I read the article, and if that level of cluelessness is indicative of the mentality of your typical online trader, then they deserve what they get. I found a couple of quotes especially amusing. These are both from John Reed Stark, another official-type thrown into the internet without a fucking life preserver, it would seem. This lack of information gives rise to a situation "that ends up with victims not investing but gambling," Oh yeah, aside from these scammers, the stock market is otherwise a really solid, robust investment scheme. Playing the stock market is a gamble, pure and simple, and anyone dumb enough to listen to the likes of some random asshole touting his crappy stock deserves what they get. Darwinism as applied to capitalism. "Combine the Web's culture of trust, stir in the greatest bull market in history, add stocks that genuinely have had phenomenal growth, and you have victims who don't have any reason to disbelieve promises of guaranteed 20 percent returns." The Web's culture of trust? Oh good, another clueless idiot in charge of managing internet services. What culture of trust is it that I've missed in my internet travels? Is there some online place chock full of trusted souls, some Cyber-commune, that I missed? Oh well, like I said, any idiot that would buy into such an obviously fraudulent solicitation deserves what they get. Is it just working in a new medium that makes people such blatant morons, or is it simply indicative of the intelligence of your average American? I'd have to say that I'm inclined to believe the latter. From rah at shipwright.com Fri Oct 23 10:05:34 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 01:05:34 +0800 Subject: Cryptographic Dog Stocks, The Dirigible Biplane, and Sendingthe Wizards Back to Menlo Park In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 1:19 AM -0400 on 10/23/98, Tim May wrote: > I've been a critic of some of Bob's "exuberance," his tendency to go off on > rhetorical flights of fancy, his irritating "ums" and "ers" and ":-}"s, and > his generally opaque writing style. No accounting for taste, or the lack thereof, for that matter. > I think there's a kernel of good thinking in there, but his attention seems > to flit about. And he seems more interesting in cutesy turns of phrase than > in persuasive exposition. What? "Too many notes", Signore Solieri? :-). > If there's stuff there, it's lost in the freneticism. Don't worry, Tim, you know it all already. Everything I ever learned on this stuff, I learned from you, anyway. Execpt the finance, of course. :-). You know where the 'd' key is, and I bet you even know how to use your killfile, if you tried. > I guess some folks are amazed that anyone can write the way Bob does. Me, I > was never amazed by the writings of Detweiler, Toto, or Hettinga. Right back atcha Tim. And don't forget to shoot back at the Feds when they fly the black helicopters over your house. Otherwise, they might not even know you're there, hmmm? Oh, well. You can't always pick your friends. Or your friend's nose, for that matter. Cheers, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From mix at anon.lcs.mit.edu Fri Oct 23 10:08:53 1998 From: mix at anon.lcs.mit.edu (lcs Mixmaster Remailer) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 01:08:53 +0800 Subject: Women cannot commit rape? (fwd) Message-ID: <19981023164003.26281.qmail@nym.alias.net> Jim Choate wrote: > > Forwarded message: > > > Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 22:50:50 -0500 > > From: Kevin Elliott > > Subject: Re: Women cannot commit rape? > > > This is true in the United States as well. That's why in every state, > > I don't believe that is accurate. Just about 2 years ago two women were > sentenced to prison because they kidnapped and raped a man. > > Perhaps one of the more versed in case law members might remember it. > Could it have involved penetration with a blunt object? That would be more forceful than the "rape" in the French case that started the thread. From rah at shipwright.com Fri Oct 23 10:09:02 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 01:09:02 +0800 Subject: bank cosortium to form CA Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 00:38:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Rich Salz To: cryptography at c2.net Subject: Re: bank cosortium to form CA Sender: owner-cryptography at c2.net I seem to have gotten myself dropped from the list, but luckily a friend forwarded (part of?) Steve's posting and Ben's (snarky :) followup. Let me try to give some details. The WSJ had a one-day exclusive, and their coverage was (from our perspective ;) not the best. You can find some other (free) coverage at www.wired.com, http://www.americanbanker.com/cgi-bin/read_intrastory?981021TECH999, and www.businesswire.com (sorry I don't have all the URL's convenient). Here's some details. I am not an official CertCo spokesman. Official press contacts can get contact info and collatoral from www.certco.com. The following comes from our press release, supporting Q&A, etc. We're creating a new company (name being chosen; I'll call it GTO for global trust organization -- the PR says enterprise, but GTE is already in use :). The GTO is aiming for online *business-to-business* commerce. The B2B point is key: we're in the high-value commercial transaction area. Don't think buying some books from amazon.com, think of Texas buying all their textbooks. The GTO will be running a root CA and a "repository" where the CA will publish its certs and CRL's. The root will use CertCo's RootAuthority. Our Multi-Step signing can take a private key and split it into a set of keyps called fragments. We then destroy the original key. When enough fragments sign something (quorum determined at the time the fragments are generated, and are usually like "5 of 7"), those signatures can be combined (mathematically) and the result looks like it was signed by the initial key. So we can take a key, spread its fragments around the world, and have a very secure root. That's step one. Step two is the root CA will certify CA's for member banks. These are big global banks each having billions in assets. (The initial eight banks are ABN Amro, Bank of America, Bankers Trust, Barclays Bank, Chase Manhattan, Citibank, Deutsche Bank, and Hypo Vereinsbank. Others have expressed interest in joining.) These banks will issue certs -- 1K keys initially, on smartcards -- to personnel at their corporate customers. The rules by which these banks issue these cards, how the companies and employees treat the cards, notify banks in case of turnover or compromise, etc., are all part of joining. We call these the "system rules." It's way more than a CPS (certification practice statement); it is a common contractual arrangement that the banks and their customers will all be issuing and handling and processing certs/cards in the same way. That's step two. This step is perhaps the most important. If someone at Tire Supplier receives a signed email message from someone at Car Maker, and they can see that CM's cert is within the GTO PKI, then they can trust it as much as they trust their own certs. Step three is online verification. TS can present the CM's cert to their bank and get verification that the cert is valid. TS's bank can trust CM's bank because of the common adherance to the rules. One of the rules for joining is that you treat peer banks with as much trust as you trust yourself, provided they can be shown to be following the rules. Or perhaps shown to not be breaking the rules. :) The GTO believes businesses will trust these decisions to their banks; that they'll pay the banks to manage the risk of trusting the identities to which the certs attest. (Hence, the for-profit intent :) Step four. Now, suppose CarMaker sends a "request to buy US$1M worth of tires" to TireSupplier. TS can send CM's cert, a hash of the message, and a request for "assurance" to his (TS's) bank. TS can decide that their exposure, should CM prove to not be who the certificate claim, is US$100K. So TS asks his bank for $100K assurance, for a period of 30 days. If it turns out that, say someone stole CM's cert, or CM left the company and is now working somewhere else buy using old credentials, or CM's bank didn't issue the CRL in a timely manner, etc., TS's bank will pay TS the US$100K. The system rules include procedures for due diligence, arbitration, and (last resort) legal recourse should TS need to "file a claim" on their assurance. Or, to put it in terms of the PR materials, business partners can get warranties on the identity of their trading partners online, over the Internet, as a new service from their bank. Step five is to extend the hierarchy down so that the big banks can "charter" or "sponsor" smaller banks. The L1 might be a service bureau for the L2's, an L2 might have its own CA, etc... It is the GTO's plan to publish our certificate profiles (derived from PKIX), directory schemas, system rules, network protocols, smartcard requirements, etc. It will be an open system I can't talk about schedules, other than to say it's very aggressive. :) If you're in the Boston area, Dan Geer will be giving a talk on this at the November meeting of the Digital Commerce Society of Boston, For more info, send "info dcsb" in the body of a message to . If you want to subscribe to the DCSB e-mail list, send "subscribe dcsb" in the body of a message to . Hope this helps. I'll be out of the office Friday, but will try to answer any questions I can next week. /r$ --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Fri Oct 23 10:51:54 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 01:51:54 +0800 Subject: Practical Free-Space Quantum Key Distribution over 1 km Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text To: cryptography at c2.net Cc: gs.satellite at Qualcomm.com, gs.security at Qualcomm.com Subject: Practical Free-Space Quantum Key Distribution over 1 km From: Paul Pomes Organization: Qualcomm, Inc. X-url: X-PGP-Key: MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 08:04:51 -0700 Sender: owner-cryptography at c2.net W.T. BUTTLER et al: Practical Free-Space Quantum Key Distribution over 1 km Physical Review Letters, vol 81, no 15, pp 3051-3301 (1998). Abstract: A working free-space quantum key distribution system has been developed and tested over an outdoor optical path of ~ 1 km at Los Alamos National Laboratory under nighttime conditions. Results show that free-space quantum key distribution can provide secure real-time key distribution between parties who have a need to communicate secretly. Finally, we examine the feasibility of surface to satellite quantum key distribution. /pbp --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Fri Oct 23 10:53:19 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 01:53:19 +0800 Subject: Forwarded mail... Message-ID: <199810231733.MAA12984@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: 23 Oct 1998 16:40:03 -0000 > From: lcs Mixmaster Remailer > Subject: Re: Women cannot commit rape? (fwd) > > > This is true in the United States as well. That's why in every state, > > > > I don't believe that is accurate. Just about 2 years ago two women were > > sentenced to prison because they kidnapped and raped a man. > > > > Perhaps one of the more versed in case law members might remember it. > > > > Could it have involved penetration with a blunt object? That would be > more forceful than the "rape" in the French case that started the thread. As I remember the case two women kidnapped and sexualy assaulted a hitchhiker. Their defence was that it wasn't possible to rape man against his will. The jury found them guilty of the charge. I don't have a lot of spare time right now (I've had 3 full days off in the last 6 weeks and have to work Sunday) so I am unable to follow up and find the specifics. If nobody happens to remember it we might table it until I can get the time to find the specifics. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From hua at teralogic-inc.com Fri Oct 23 10:59:12 1998 From: hua at teralogic-inc.com (Ernest Hua) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 01:59:12 +0800 Subject: your note Message-ID: <009e01bdfeaa$89f3e5c0$4164a8c0@mve21> > Why the tone, Ernest? > > Because, in case you haven't been aware of it, accusing a journalist of > censorship is a very serious thing. > > Ray Suarez Mr. Suarez, Well, in that case, I owe you an apology for the poor choice of the word "censor", and I suspected it as much after thinking about your replies. I am more accustom to the use of "censor" not so much in the deliberate and conspiratorial sense as you might be taking it. Allow me to point to the books by Project Censored, which, I believe, never directly accuse any news organizations of deliberately censoring for the purpose of covering up anything. Their prime accusation is that the news mechanism as a component of a democratic society have filters whose optimizations have been taken advantage of by organizations actually desiring the cover up. I think the intelligence agencies are probably good at this (if not, they are not doing their job), and I am sure the FBI is a quick study on this topic of just how fast news spreads through the media, and how certain news do or do not make it through the media channels. The FBI and the NSA have often been targets of lawsuits and Congressional scrutiny in the past, so they probably have organizational structures to help defend against such scrutiny. This does not automagically imply some sort of big brother conspiracy, but if the resources are there to spin their agenda, I doubt they will say, "well this is not ethical to use for our own purposes ...". Unlike many right wing extremists, I'm not even trying to accuse the FBI or the NSA of deliberately trying to fool the American public for some evil purposes. My belief is that larger and larger secret bureaucracies have a certain behavior which could have the net result of undermining democratic principles, so while it is not the news organizations fault that they may have been taken advantage of, we often have to depend on the news organizations themselves dig themselves out and to counter act this effect. Daniel Patrick Moynihan recently released a book on the topic of secrecy and the effect on bureaucracy, and I was quite impressed by the N Y Times excerpt. By the way, I don't know if you understand why I'm so concerned about this topic, but I do want to clear the basic problems: 1. I am NOT accusing you or TOTN of censoring the wiretap topic. a. All connotations of "censor". 2. I am accusing you and TOTN of censorin the topic of the lack of reporting by main stream media on that specific hour. a. Only the specific mechanical connotation of "censor" which means not putting the topic on the air. b. I am questioning the relevance of some of the calls relative to mine. 1) I will grant that due to the mechanism of pre-screens, that you might not have understood the specific nature of my topic, and might have thought I just wanted to talk about wire taps. c. I will grant that that there are many reasons why stories/items get dropped on the floor, mostly not the evil conspiratorial reasons. I can even imagine a few of these reasons myself. However, a discussion of news organizations and how they decide why one story is dropped and another is put on is worth knowing (that was what I wanted to ask you on the air). On this particular exchange, you might also want to explain how you pick and choose callers on the air. Of course, you cannot put every caller on the air. So how do you choose? Is there a control of flow factor? Doubtful in that particular hour. I am sure there is some attempt to limit the digression of the topics. Is there some intangible mood factor analogous to a club DJ's emotional sync with the dance crowd? Ern From rms at santafe.edu Fri Oct 23 11:29:52 1998 From: rms at santafe.edu (Richard Stallman) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 02:29:52 +0800 Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) In-Reply-To: <004801bdf3a1$f168e6b0$b401010a@is_blake.wizards.com> Message-ID: <199810231755.LAA18635@wijiji.santafe.edu> This assumes that writing and selling proprietary software is 'the ability to control other people'. Making a program proprietary is controlling people, pure and simple. It is a matter of restricting users from sharing, studying and/or changing the program--restricting users from cooperating. but people *choose* to accept the restrictions of non-free software for any number of reasons. People often choose to give up important freedoms--usually because they are offered a limited choice, and the other alternatives seem to involve short-term pain. One can understand why people do this, but the effects are still dangerous. When almost everyone gives up certain freedoms, those few who keep them may be subject to various sorts of pressure that only a few determined people would resist. The crucial question is not whether people had some limited range of choice available. It is, what limited the choice? Was it limited by nature, or did someone deliberately deny people the other better choices? And if so, was that wrong? I do not see anyone being coerced into using it by threat of physical force. Physical force is not the only thing that can hurt people or systematically degrade society, so whether it is employed not a crucial issue. But, as it happens, physical force generally does play a role in proprietary software. Most proprietary software developers make use of laws that place the power of the state at their service in stopping users from sharing. Using physical force is sometimes justified--for example, to prevent a wrong. In this spirit, copyleft uses laws and state power to prevent others from using the very same laws and power to restrict users. From nobody at replay.com Fri Oct 23 11:48:02 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 02:48:02 +0800 Subject: Men can be raped Message-ID: <199810231821.UAA13709@replay.com> Of course it's possible to rape a man. Just because he becomes erect doesn't mean he desires sexual intercourse. People are more than the instictive reactions their body produces. Someone who chooses not to engage in sex, but is coerced into doing so, is raped, regardless of his body's physical reactions. The key element is coercion. Erections or other bodily responses have nothing to do with it. Consider a murderer who ties his victim to a chair and rigs a diabolical device. A hammer strikes the victim's tendon below his knee, causing his leg to reflexively kick and set off a bomb. The murdere is caught but argues that the person committed suicide, since he kicked the bomb switch himself. From webmaster at max-web.com Fri Oct 23 12:02:43 1998 From: webmaster at max-web.com (Kevlar) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 03:02:43 +0800 Subject: CyberScam In-Reply-To: <199810231545.RAA01452@replay.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981023111259.007c9100@max-web.com> At 05:45 PM 10/23/98 +0200, you wrote: >At 09:03 PM 10/22/98 -0700, Kevlar wrote: >>And you were just kidding..... > >I wasn't kidding. I was absolutely sincere when I told him to shove >a bowling ball up his ass. My bad. You were serious. But still... > >>http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/zdnn_smgraph_display/0,4436,2151220,00.h tml >>Or search zdnet's site for "scam" and choose "A Bull In Bull Market". > >I read the article, and if that level of cluelessness is indicative of the >mentality of your typical online trader, then they deserve what they >get. I found a couple of quotes especially amusing. These are both >from John Reed Stark, another official-type thrown into the internet >without a fucking life preserver, it would seem. >what they get. Darwinism as applied to capitalism. -----------------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Damn. > > "Combine the Web's culture of trust, stir in the greatest bull market > in history, add stocks that genuinely have had phenomenal growth, > and you have victims who don't have any reason to disbelieve > promises of guaranteed 20 percent returns." It accualy said that in the article? "CULTURE OF TRUST"? Not even our own government trusts us enough to share enough information with people outside the US so we can talk to them WITHOUT letting big brother watch. You hear about all this scandal with the NSA/GOV and that swiss encryption company? It says right in every piece i've seen that "this went on for many years"... 5 or 6 I believe... Mozilla (NS), IE, and many other less well known (but certianly as popular) WEB browsers have encryption built right into them, so you can do things "Securely". Nobody uses their real name on the internet, unless it's for buisness, and Login/Password lurks around the corner if you know where to look for it. Is this indicative of a "culture of trust"? Naturally this is in compareison to the internet's predacessor (Not ARPAnet, that was a government project. BBS's came first) , which were mostly free to anyone who came and wanted to dl/ul a file or post in the message base. And usally if it wasn't open you could apply for access. People ran this software, and everyone knew it was full of holes, and anyone could format all the hard drives in your box, but they trusted the total strangers who were calling not to, and for the most part people DIDN'T... simply because they liked it and didn't want to see it go away. It used to be that identification was only required when it was necessary to do something that REQUIRED identification, and half the time there was an anonymous option hiding somewhere... Now if I want to download some shareware of the "culture of trust", I gotta type in my name, vital statics, SIN, rank, mothers maiden name, what I know about the plot to assisinate Mr.Cigar, and a 3 page essay on why I deserve to use their shareware that they worked long and hard to make and I'll never pay for. It's enough to make you NOT want to do it. But we do. We keep comming back for that thrill of watching the [Percent Complete] box stay at 97% for hours on end until Windows plays a cheery little tune and pops up a box telling us "It took to long, I'm not gonna wait for it any more." But I digress. > >The Web's culture of trust? Oh good, another clueless idiot in charge >of managing internet services. What culture of trust is it that I've >missed in my internet travels? Is there some online place chock full >of trusted souls, some Cyber-commune, that I missed? > >Oh well, like I said, any idiot that would buy into such an obviously >fraudulent solicitation deserves what they get. Is it just working in a >new medium that makes people such blatant morons, or is it simply >indicative of the intelligence of your average American? I'd have to >say that I'm inclined to believe the latter. > -Kevlar Does God know Peano Algebra? Or does she not care if strong atheists couldnt reason their way out of a trap made of Boolean presumptions? A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing, but zero knowlege is absolutely subversive. Overspecialization breeds in weakness. It's a slow death. Beat your algorithms into swords, your dumb terminals into shields, and turn virtual machines into battlefields... Let the weak say, "I am strong" and question authority. From rah at shipwright.com Fri Oct 23 13:24:39 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 04:24:39 +0800 Subject: Human Action Gone Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text From: "Mises Institute News" To: Subject: Human Action Gone Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 13:53:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Precedence: bulk Sender: miseslist-owner at mail.mises.org Status: U Thanks to an overwhelming response, our stock of other Human Action editions is now gone. The Scholar's Edition will be available November 23, 1998. This is a re-release of the original, unaltered 1949 treatise that shaped a generation of Austrians and made possible the intellectual movement that is leading the global charge for free markets. Made available for the first time in decades, exclusively through the Ludwig von Mises Institute, this edition uses extraordinary materials and the best of modern technology, combined with ancient standards of craftsmanship in the tradition of Oxford University's Clarendon Press. This magnificent work is produced for the ages. � Carefully set in the classic, readable, and beautiful Jansen typeface, including the 1954, 30-page index prepared under Mises's supervision, the most extensive ever compiled; � Printed on stunning pure white, acid-free Finch Fine 50 lb. paper; � Covered in spectacular dark azure Odyssey cloth from the Netherlands, the finest natural-finish, moisture-resistant book fabric in the world; � Protected by a strong slipcase from the famous Old Dominion company, covered in matching Odyssey cloth and featuring old-fashioned thumb-cuts for easy handling; � Secured by the finest caliper Binders Board; � Graced with antique-stone endpapers from Ecologic Fibers; � Casebound with the strongest Smyth-sewn signatures; � Fitted at head and foot with silken endbands, thick wrapped for durability; � Complimented with a double-faced satin ribbon place marker, and portrait of Mises; � Stamped with brilliant, real non-tarnishing gold foil from Japan's Nakai International; � Produced at R.R. Donnelly's famed Crawfordsville Bindery, where America's finest books are assembled. All told, The Scholar's Edition looks exactly like the classic work it is, ready for a lifetime (or two) of use. The introduction, by Hans-Hermann Hoppe, Jeffrey Herbener, and Joseph Salerno�based on newly discovered archives�tells of the tragic and glorious history of this seminal work, and of its bright future as the manifesto of liberty. Human Action: The Scholar's Edition is the foundation of every library of freedom. You will want a treasured copy in your collection. And if you want to send a copy as a gift to a friend or family member, we'll wrap it appropriately at no charge, and enclose a card in your name. The price for this nine-hundred-page masterpiece is $65. Your credit card will not be charge until the order is shipped. Call 800-636-4737, or order securely through our on-line catalog at www.mises.org --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Fri Oct 23 15:03:19 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 06:03:19 +0800 Subject: IP: Data Encryption and the First Amendment: Pete duPont Message-ID: Hey *I* want some of the 4096 bit encryption! :-). Cheers, Bob Hettinga "My coun-try 'tis of thee, land of plu-to-cracy..." Forbes/duPont 2000 ;-). --- begin forwarded text Delivered-To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com X-Sender: believer at telepath.com Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 15:06:12 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Data Encryption and the First Amendment: Pete duPont Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Precedence: list Reply-To: believer at telepath.com Source: Intellectual Capital http://www.IntellectualCapital.com/issues/98/1022/iced.asp Data Encryption and the First Amendment by Pete du Pont October 22, 1998 The microprocessor and the Internet have created an information revolution that is sweeping the globe. This revolution is putting information once available only to the media, political and intellectual elite into the kitchens of ordinary people all across America and opening previously locked cabinets in government, industry and academe. In short, the information revolution is empowering people; it is giving them the tools and the information to make informed choices for themselves. People can more easily exchange information with one another -- buy, sell, discuss and decide among different options. Already, e-mail exceeds regular mail usage by 10-to-1. Forrester Research reports that $8 billion in goods and services were traded over the Internet in 1997; by 2002, 21 million homes will be doing online financial transactions worth $327 billion. Essential to this commercial and personal communication is security. We want to know that our information travels safely, without alteration or eavesdropping, and that there is neither information theft nor identity fraud. Which means that we must encrypt our data, so that only intended parties can access it. A glimpse into the future In the U.S. banking system, for example, just two of the largest fund-transfer systems transmit more than 300,000 electronic fund-transfer messages worth $2 trillion every day. For obvious security reasons, the Treasury Department already requires that all electronic fund transfers be encrypted. For those of us doing commerce at a somewhat smaller order, or simply e-mail or information transfers, security is equally compelling. One of the primary tasks of government is to protect the interests and property of citizens, and in the information and e-commerce age, enhancing the encryption of data to ensure its integrity should be one of our government's priorities. The good news is that encryption technology is galloping forward. What was state of the art a few years ago is now rearview-mirror encryption. Today, 56-bit encryption, with its 72 trillion combinations, is giving way to 128-bit encryption. A Canadian company called Jaws Technology has a new technology with 4,096-bit encryption. Cracking it, its creators say, would require the equivalent of hitting 1,000 consecutive holes in one on the golf course from a 150-yard tee. The bad news is that our government is demanding limits on encryption technology and demanding access to all our encrypted messages -- financial, commercial and ordinary e-mail. The government's efforts began with the Clipper chip in 1993. The Clipper chip would have required encryption users to submit their encryption keys to a government database. It met with such a hail of objections from technical and civil liberties groups that it never came to pass, but the idea lives. The government currently is seeking both the funding of a huge new encryption technology center and the means to access any computer communication individuals might generate. The case against limits on encryption It seems to me that all of this is wrongheaded, that these demands for government access to our computer transmissions are based on three false assumptions. The first is that government can legislate encryption standards. The truth is that encryption technology is moving too rapidly for statutory law to keep up. For example, the National Bureau of Standards at one point decided that the nation should have a single 56-bit key encryption algorithm, an idea almost immediately obsolete as technology went to 128-bit algorithms and higher. Second is the idea that regulation can prevent criminals from acquiring unbreakable encryption. The analogy here is a familiar one: Does anyone believe that gun-control laws -- gun registration or prohibition of ownership, for example -- will keep guns out of the hands of criminals? Similarly, encryption-strength ceilings, key escrow or "trapdoors" in computer programs to allow government access will limit personal and business usage by citizens and slow criminals not at all. The international market is too accessible and its encryption offerings equally or more sophisticated than U.S. technology. Third is the idea that such regulations are cost-free to people using computer technology. Key escrow and trapdoor systems would make encryption for U.S. businesses and individuals less secure, more vulnerable and more easily broken. Weakening the encryption security of American users is a not a policy in the national interest. Forcing information vulnerabilities upon individuals and businesses is weakening national security, not strengthening it. Most egregious in such encryption regulation is the massive invasion of civil liberties it represents. The idea that various government agencies, from the FBI to health-care agencies, the IRS and the Justice Department, will have instant access to our Quicken programs, e-mail and data transmissions is both dangerous and unsettling. Liberty in the 21st century It is not as if the government has a good record regarding individual privacy. President Nixon's FBI tracked its enemies; the Clinton IRS seems to be auditing unfriendly 501(c)(3)s; and some 800 FBI files mysteriously found their way to Craig Livingstone's pizza-and-beer sessions. No doubt there is a unique, it-will-never-happen-again exculpatory reason for these violations of civil liberties. But if the government has the power to intercept and use your data for its purposes, it will do so sooner or later. That is a truth, and no amount of reassurance should lead us to believe otherwise. From Edmund Burke ("people never give up their liberties but under some delusion") to Woodrow Wilson ("the history of liberty is a history of limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it"), Americans have jealously guarded their freedom. The next frontier of free speech will be the technology of encryption. In the 18th century, the First Amendment was essential to guarding free speech. Protecting the empowering technology of data transmission will be just as essential to maintaining liberty in the 21st century. --- Pete du Pont is the editor of IntellectualCapital.com. He is a former Republican governor and congressman from Delaware. His e-mail address is petedupont at intellectualcapital.com. ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From honig at sprynet.com Fri Oct 23 15:34:46 1998 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 06:34:46 +0800 Subject: PRNGs and testers. In-Reply-To: <19981021151835.A26267@krdl.org.sg> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981023145454.008dd100@m7.sprynet.com> At 09:00 AM 10/23/98 +0200, Mok-Kong Shen wrote: >David Honig wrote: > >> Recall that Ueli's Universal Statistical Test >> is valid only for real sources of entropy. >> PRNGs have zero entropy asymptotically ;-) > >Sorry that I haven't yet understood. Could you explain a bit more >from the entropy point of view? In my opinion, a statistical >test does not and should not take into account how a sequence >being tested is obtained. Given is simply a sequence and no other >information and the test should give an answer. > >M. K. Shen A *sequence* isn't random; a process is. A sequence may be the result of some process, but its always a sample of a process. When you ask, "Is some process random", you *must* define "random" operationally, thus, finitely. A test for structure, such as Marsaglia's "Diehard" suite, measures various statistics (structure) of a sample and compares them to the measurements you'd get for (abstractly modelled, "real") randomness. If the particular tests you've chosen don't see some structure that's present in the sample, you'll mistakenly accept the process as "random". Diehard is nice because it includes complex stats and some Monte Carlo evaluations. Marsaglia's test was designed to find problems in PRNGs, which he was working on. Maurer suggests a way to compute the entropy of the data, taken as N-bit blocks, and computes the value you'd compute for random data. His test consumes a lot more data, and is Now, a PRNG has a finite amount of (unknown) initial internal state. This state is expanded into the output stream, which goes on forever, thus the finite initial entropy is spread infinitestimally thin. A true RNG, even an imperfect one, generates a constant amount of entropy per symbol ("bit per baud" averaged over any sufficiently large window). ----------------- An experiment Run a block cipher in a feedback mode, generating a large data file. Any good cipher will pass Diehard's tests for structure. So will a true random file. (I've posted directions for producing decent true randomness from a detuned FM radio, soundcard, and 8->1 parity-reduction filtering.) Now run Maurer's test; I've posted a version for blocksize = 16. The cipher-PRNG output will not have the entropy expected for randomness. The physical-random file will. ----------------------------- D. Honig "When horsemeat is outlawed, only outlaws will eat horsemeat" --California Voter Information Pamphlet From nobody at replay.com Fri Oct 23 15:41:57 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 06:41:57 +0800 Subject: Irony Message-ID: <199810232210.AAA31880@replay.com> At 04:19 PM 10/23/98 +0200, Mok-Kong Shen wrote: >> Dear Friend, > >I don't know the English term but in my native language what is >described is call 'chaining letters', supposed to be a method to >become rich very rapidly. That was illegal, though. In my language we have something called humor, which some taxonomize with terms like irony, sarcasm, wit, etc. From rah at shipwright.com Fri Oct 23 15:42:08 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 06:42:08 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 6:00 PM -0400 on 10/23/98, Somebody wrote: > This looks like spam, except it is coming from a list regular. > Someone spoofing you? No, actually they aren't. I have no connection with the Von Mises institute, either. However, if you don't want to shell out big bucks for an archival quality version (and help a good cause in the process) you should at least go to your library, and, if they don't have a (not-so spiffy :-)) version of von Mises' _Human Action_ there, you should have them Inter-Library loan it for you. Another great book in the same vein, actually better, as a first read, is Friedrich Hayek's _The Road to Serfdom_. Another famous 50-year old book, pissed upon by statists and leftists for generations, and only now being seen as one of the best economic books of the century. The most recent edition even has a forward by Milton Freidman. (Hayek won the Nobel just like Freidman did, but I don't remember if von Mises did.) Austrian-school economists rule, d00dz. Enjoy! Cheers, Bob Hettinga -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5 iQEVAwUBNjEADcUCGwxmWcHhAQFn2QgAj8uZUgaJ7FqAPeFw1XAnUW1TNWETzySc ATtgkQvzdfJeeq+ROHlzBWnIdoBFJY3RNfyd9Fj1jgumACWivbFhPP32ZhgBscxM AwCFXmU0FK5Sg2uJNKNxbIkFWFUuGRWib6GCl2dTybM07O5tv10ZaMNHuwNfIwpz TlcoB74CZdBc5MCh1gD0z0p4rzlByzB5e3HxZEDfCyaA/IIckMBvAhrEALktqalW pBIDOJ2/os1MM/zqYq+HaWA27UekRFWWupn0SI+15klH0uEf9ODKMmyoV5oUhtPM pFosbkjqd90dF8mDLeaIVn+2yiJe0A49OHH9NhBc/Wa5MrTzqSaokw== =rOM2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Fri Oct 23 15:43:37 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 06:43:37 +0800 Subject: so, what did Toto *do*, exactly to get locked up? (Re: rules of engagement In-Reply-To: <19981023152002.24725.qmail@nym.alias.net> Message-ID: <199810232130.WAA31234@server.eternity.org> Anonymous writes: > Adam Back wrote: > > Re. the discussion of things like "first they came for Jim Bell, but I > > didn't speak up because I wasn't a tax protester, and then they came > > for Toto but I didn't speak up because I'm not crazy", etc. > > > > The rules of the game from what I can see is that if one is outspoken, > > one either needs to be squeaky clean, or have enough funds to hire > > good lawyers, or to be anonymous. > > [Notwithstanding my preference for the latter]... > > Is it the cypherpunk response to back off with our tail between our legs? > I hope not. Fuck no. Just fight smart. Don't do dumb things which make you a target for other than things you are immediately interested in achieving. > I smiled when I read about Toto's plans to appear in court in a perl-RSA > T-shirt. Toto has balls so big he needs a wheel barrow to get around. Toto is on occasion an inspiration. I like Toto's attitude, it rocks, his "FuckYouNess" or whatever he would call it is awesome. As long as all he is doing is tapping away behind a keyboard, the coherent version of Toto rules at caustic rants. > > That is to say, I suspect that Jim would not have been locked up if he > > had not a) used false social security numbers, b) not been involved > > with fake courts, c) not collected IRS employees home addresses, and > > d) not planted the stink bomb. > > And, more importantly, if crypto-anachy and removal of governments > weren't on the cypherpunk agenda. I was just saying that it is smarter to fight one fight at a time. Crypto-anarchy provides a generic solution to problems of increasingly facist governments. Getting yourself locked up for uninteresting things does not further your interests. > Lets not pretend that Jim and Toto (and to a lesser degree the > scrutinee J Choate) are not scapegoats for all of our opinions. It is difficult to tell exactly why Jim was incarcerated because the IRS people may have alternate motives. However, I suspect Jim Bell's woes are more to do with involvement with the fake courts, and the use of real IRS employees names and addresses, which was then taken to be an immediate threat, taken with the AP rant printout they found in his car. I presume in reality he just collected the addresses to have the fake court serve them with some legal documents. I also presume the reason the IRS first got interested in Jim was due to tax evasion, and/or fake court documents addressed to IRS agents. Toto is more interesting. He seems to have been incarcerated because he tried to stick up for Jim Bell. What did he do? Set up an AP bot mockup, put the same IRS employees names, and a judge (I presume the judge that handled Jim's case) on the page with $ amounts beside them. The IRS became aware of Toto because they came across him via investigation of Jim Bell. (more on Toto below). > > The AP rants are perfectly defensible free speech and free-wheeling > > political discussion. > > Yes. "defensible", but they weren't defended. Jim pleaded. As would anyone > in the face of sufficient pressure. Also what I am saying is that it makes it hard to defend people if they have done any number of dumb things which are the ostensible reason they are locked up. To defend Jim, you would have to defend fake courts, fake social security numbers to avoid taxation, stink bombs, and convince them that the collection of IRS employee names and addresses had nothing to do with the AP rant. If he had just been ranting about AP, they never would have even bothered him, or if they had, I think he would have had much more support. Perhaps even the EFF could have been interested. > > Similarly with Toto, the rants would have been ok, without a) the > > mockup non-functional "bomb" symbolically planted in the court house > > basement or where-ever it was, b) using real IRS employees, and judges > > names in his rant (apparently in support of Jim Bell), c) having > > tourettes syndrome. > > The rants are ok anyway. They are clearly metaphors. But the > prosecutors aren't playing fair. The man is "dangerous". And not > because he wrote "bomb" in crayon on a cardboard box. But because he > made waves. Waves that we caught. Waves that the straights and > sheeple might catch. I'd be interested in opinions on why they locked up Toto. The legal docs John Young obtained and put on up on the web (look at the bottom of http://www.jya.com cryptome page for `Carl Johnson'), says that it is because he made a threat. What about the following excerpt from the Toto post below could be construed to constitute a danger, or did Toto get locked up because he walked right up to the IRS and said "Fuck You", and "here I am come and get me". I have inserted the odd comment. Anyone like to comment on how likely a case by the IRS based on this post by `Toto' is to stick? The AP bot mockup I think was clearly not a credible threat, it was completely non-functional. Adam : OFFICIAL 'PHYSICAL' DEATH THREAT!!! : The pen is mightier than the sword. Thus, I prefer to wage my : 'war to the death' against those who would stomp on my basic : human rights *"in the interests of National Security"* with my : electronic pen, on the InterNet, using encryption when I have : reason to fear persecution by Facist, Nazi motherfuckers. : [* ~~ TruthMonger Vernacular Translation ~~ "so that the : government can maintain its authority over the citizens : by use of force and violation of human rights, rather than : going to all of the trouble of acting in a manner that will : garner the citizens' respect."] Pen is mightier than sword, prefers words to actions, no threat there. : I will continue to express my thoughts through the words : I send electronically over the InterNet, both publically : and privately. I will fight to the bandwidth death against : anyone who wants to deny me my right to express my opinions : and access the opinions of those who also wish to express : their own opinions and share their true thoughts with their : fellow humans. he will fight to the "bandwidth death" (argue vigorously and verbosely) anyone who tries to interfere with right to private communication. No threat. : If the ElectronicMagnetic Curtain slams down around me, : then I will have no choice but to continue my current fight : in MeatSpace. : And I am not alone... Says if he is prevented from communicating privately (ElectronicMagnetic Curtain he used early to refer to key escrow attempts, and government intrusions) he will continue his fight in meat space. Just rhetoric, nothing illegal about fighting words. : I will share the same 'DEATH THREAT!!!' with Judges Fletcher, : Nelson and Bright that I have shared with the President and : a host of Congressional and Senatorial representatives: So he sent the following quoted paragraph to president at whitehouse.gov? Sending threats to president at whitehouse.gov however rhetorical is a sure-fire way to get an immediate visit from men in dark suits. However that has nothing to do with the IRS. And the "threat" appears to be an expression of annoyance with the government, and a possibly a general prediction rather than any kind of specific threat: : "You can fuck some of the people all of the time, and all of : the people some of the time, but you are going to end up in a : body bag or a pine box before you manage to fuck all of the : people all of the time." Rhetoric, word play on quote "you can fool all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but not all of the people all of the time". : Am *I* going to whack you out? Maybe... Sounding a bit more specific there, though it is only a "Maybe...", and the following literary quotes suggest he is more ranting than anything. People on list have suggested that it is better to vent anger with unspecific third person comments "They ought to be taken out and shot", "they should be the first against the wall come the revolution". But I am not up to speed on the legal issues here. It seems likely as a whole that Toto is just ranting. And surely once they have pulled him in they have to show some actual credible plan. Mere ranting about officials I presume is not grounds for locking people up. : I would prefer just dumping some tea in Boston Harbor, if that : will get my message across in MeatSpace, but if it won't, then : I guess I will have to take stronger action. Toto's MeatSpace "actions" to date seems to have been symbolic. The "bomb" in the canadian court-house basement which anonymous nicely charactarized as a cardboard box with "bomb" written on it. : There are undoubtedly a plethora of LEA's ready and willing to : prosecute and imprison me for agreeing with Patrick Henry, who : said, "Give me liberty, or give me death." : The irony, of course, : is that I do not pose a great danger to anyone but myself as : long as I continue to have my human rights and my liberty : unthreatened. : The chances of me actually getting off of my fat butt and : going out into the real world to whack out the enemies of : freedom are probably pretty small (unless I run out of : cigarettes and beer, and wouldn't have to make an extra : trip). Saying he isn't going to do anything, actually. : I fully understand that this does not lessen the potential : of any LEA who gets a wild hair up their butt to throw a : mountain of taxpayer resources into prosecuting me and : imprisoning me for their own professional/political gain. Predicting his incarceration for political reasons, for exercising his right to political speech. : However, if you are performing actions so outrageously against : basic human rights and freedoms as to get me off of my lazy ass, : then I am the least of your problems, because there undoubtedly : are millions of people more functional than myself (who get out : of the house and go further than the liquor store) who are less : willing than myself to put up with increasingly heavy chains : placed around their hands and feet 'in the interests of national : security.' Expressing opinion that increasingly facist government is going to lead to political unrest. : Feel free to have the Federales break down my door and : imprison me for pointing out the obvious. After all, I fit : the profile of a domestic terrorist--I quote the Constitution : and the Bill of Rights, and I speak out against increasingly : big government. Come and get me, I sound like a terrorist in that I quote the constitution, speak out against big government. : But remember...it's the quiet ones you've got to watch... : If you force everyone to 'be quiet', then you've got a world : of trouble on your hands. Followed by a few tips on how to find him, and a few comments about cluelessness of LEAs. : p.s. : NOTICE TO LEA AGENTS IN NEED OF A CAREER BOOST! : [...] : However, if you want to go to the trouble of tracking me : down, I will give you some hints, since it seems likely that : anyone who has trouble finding a ton of cocaine at an : airport might not be competent in CyberSpace, either. : You might want to check with the Webmasters at the sites : quoted above to see who has accessed their web sites this : morning. The anonymous remailer I will be using is an open : secret to CypherPunks around the world as a really bad : attempt at disguising my true MeatSpace identity. Talking perhaps about his sympatico account which someone claiming to be Toto claims else-where was shared with a number of hackers. Don't recall what the headers on the mail indicated it was from. : this alone : ought to be enough for some aggressive young LEA and/or : federal prosecutor to earn themself some brownie-points, : since I am a sorry enough son-of-a-bitch that they would not : have much trouble convicting me in front of a jury of 'their' : peers, assuming that they can make certain that I am not : tried by a jury of my own peers. Telling them he is an easy catch, because he will be easy to make look bad in a court. : Bonus Points: : I can also be tied into Jim Bell's Worldwide Conspiracy to : assassinate government authorities, through my implementation : of an Assassination Bot. Pointing them to his AP bot mockup. : (I am willing to 'rat out' Jim for two bottles of Scotch. If : he is willing to rat _me_ out for less, then I guess it's : just my hard luck, eh? <--that's another hint!) : : p.p.s. : You can also charge me with use of 'conventional' encryption : in the commission of a crime. : Must be your lucky fucking day, eh? Reference to use of `encryption in commission of a crime' provisions in recent proposed bills. From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Fri Oct 23 16:43:08 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 07:43:08 +0800 Subject: Mildly opinionated rambling on the computer/boardgame flamewar (fwd) Message-ID: <199810232335.SAA14639@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 16:48:37 -0500 > From: "David \"Inky\" Scott" > Subject: Re: Mildly opinionated rambling on the computer/boardgame flamewar > I've said it before and I'll say it again. You can't send a computer to > the corner store for snacks and drinks. Nor can six or seven players > easily cluster around a computer game all at once and be working on > setting up their next turn/movement/etc. Nor is computer gaming a truly > social gathering, which is the primary reason why many of us play these > games. Well *current* games certainly aren't. But that is no indication they must be that way. A good example platform that is currently available is Beowulf Linux. If each player were to ethernet their machines via a hub then they would all in effect be participating in a game equivalent in human interaction to any boardgame. This would allow the concept of distributed game servers. If you're only playing on your machine it's going to be limited. As the number of machines increases the capability goes up as well. Of course it could be done over regular machines without the support in the kernel. Set up an api that provides access to an analog of the 'r' commands in Unix. Then the necessary graphics and sound engines, graphics libraries, rules engine, ai. Change the graphics libraries, rules engine, and ai and you have a completely different game. This would allow two different modes of playfield geometry. One would be where every player has an identical map. Another would be where each player has a different map and they are edge-to-edge according to some algorithm (which wouldn't have to be Cartesian). Have the basic structure of the game be a 3 dimension, time enabled (it has a game clock) array. By changing the scale of the display 'unit cube' play at different levels could be engaged in. When you're networked to other players your local ai might give you hints or suggestions, or the ai's could take on the role of moderator. Maket he basic interface webable and you're ready to go. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From emc at wire.insync.net Fri Oct 23 16:44:24 1998 From: emc at wire.insync.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 07:44:24 +0800 Subject: ITAR and Codebreaking Message-ID: <199810232323.SAA02700@wire.insync.net> Does anyone know how ITAR applies to cryptographic source code which can not directly be used to encrypt or decrypt files? Specifically, do we need to do some horrible export-controlled thing for source code which contains a very straightforward reference implementation of DES, and whose output is a file of integers defining a satisfiability problem instantated for a specific plaintext/ciphertext pair? If the answer to this question is "yes," would someone be willing to donate a few meg on an export-controlled crypto site that we could link to? Many thanks. -- Sponsor the DES Analytic Crack Project http://www.cyberspace.org/~enoch/crakfaq.html From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Fri Oct 23 16:54:54 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 07:54:54 +0800 Subject: Mildly opinionated rambling on the computer/boardgame flamewar (fwd) (OOOPS...) Message-ID: <199810232336.SAA14707@einstein.ssz.com> Sorry for that. My fingers had a mind of their own...;) ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From stuffed at stuffed.net Sat Oct 24 07:57:39 1998 From: stuffed at stuffed.net (STUFFED SAT OCT 24) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 07:57:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY! 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From athena at cyberpass.net Sat Oct 24 01:07:21 1998 From: athena at cyberpass.net (Pallas Anonymous Remailer) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 16:07:21 +0800 Subject: Big Brother Netscape Message-ID: <2d101d9725ee4f1682a3417e5c703039@anonymous> Summary: Netscape's "what's related" is a backdoor for Netscape to monitor your surfing. --forwarded text--------------------------------------------------------- >From "Flemming S. Johansen" on BUGTRAQ at netspace.org Starting with version 4.06, the Netscape browser has a new "What's Related?" button next to the Location: field. After having tried it in the new 4.5, I am more than a little worried by the functionality behind it. Briefly, the user clicks on this button, and is presented with a list of sites which are hopefully related to the page currently on display, plus some ads for Netscape. As far as I have been able to deduce (helped by a packet sniffer), this works by opening a HTTP connection to www-rl.netscape.com and making a query modelled on this template: GET /wtgn?CurrentURL/ HTTP/1.0, where CurrentUrl is the URL of the page currently displayed. The server responds with a list of URLs it believe to be related. There are four modes for this function, settable through preferences->navigator->smart browsing: - "Always" The browser always downloads the list of 'related' URLS, beginning while the page in question is loading. - "Never" The browser starts downloading the list of 'related' URLS when the user clicks on the 'What's related?' button. - "After first use" Automatically fetches the URL list for a page if the user has ever clicked the button for that page. - Completely disabled. The default setting is "Always". So, the unsuspecting user who upgrades to the latest Netscape will automatically and unknowingly begin sending out a detailed log of pages viewed. Netscapes privacy statement notwithstanding, I don't like the fact that anyone is able to compile a list of every single web page I visit. I don't like the fact that someone with a sniffer anywhere on the path from here to netscape.com is able to do so either. And the company I work for is not too thrilled about the name of every single document on our internal, not-for-public-viewing web server leaking out on the Net, once our users begin installing this release on their PCs. I would like to control this "feature" globally for my LAN, but as far as I can see, there are only two ways of doing it: Fascist control of Netscape preferences settings on every PC on my LAN, or block www-rl.netscape.com in the firewall. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Flemming S. Johansen fsj at terma.com From nobody at seclab.com Sat Oct 24 03:58:29 1998 From: nobody at seclab.com (DOOM Anonymous Untraceable User) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 18:58:29 +0800 Subject: so, what did Toto *do*, exactly to get locked up? (Re: rules of en Message-ID: <199810241040.MAA16934@rogue.seclab.com> Adam Back wrote: > Anonymous wrote: > > Adam Back wrote: > > > That is to say, I suspect that Jim would not have been locked up if he > > > had not a) used false social security numbers, b) not been involved > > > with fake courts, c) not collected IRS employees home addresses, and > > > d) not planted the stink bomb. > > > > And, more importantly, if crypto-anachy and removal of governments > > weren't on the cypherpunk agenda. > ... > It is difficult to tell exactly why Jim was incarcerated because the > IRS people may have alternate motives. However, I suspect Jim Bell's > woes are more to do with involvement with the fake courts, and the use > of real IRS employees names and addresses, which was then taken to be > an immediate threat, taken with the AP rant printout they found in his > car. I presume in reality he just collected the addresses to have the > fake court serve them with some legal documents. I also presume the > reason the IRS first got interested in Jim was due to tax evasion, > and/or fake court documents addressed to IRS agents. The fake court, addresses, AP manifesto are all part of one point being made. There is no threat. Any court can see that (if it doesn't choose not to). And we do have a system of "reasonable doubt". Did fake SS#s alone justify incarceration? Hmmm. Dunno. crypto-anarchy sounds scary, better be safe... > > Toto is more interesting. He seems to have been incarcerated because > he tried to stick up for Jim Bell. What did he do? Set up an AP bot > mockup, put the same IRS employees names, and a judge (I presume the > judge that handled Jim's case) on the page with $ amounts beside them. ... > Also what I am saying is that it makes it hard to defend people if > they have done any number of dumb things which are the ostensible > reason they are locked up. I have no problem with that. I'll defend Jim Bell's AP rants, the use of fake courts and addresses to flesh out the details. Peripheral crimes don't make me ashamed to say "these things here are free speech". I stated a similar view in a post a while ago about Clinton: that peripheral issues are irrelevant. My principle was unpopular then, but I hope it gets more support when looking at Jim/Toto. I'm outraged that mischievous acts would get higher penalty just because these guys believe in the cypherpunk agenda. Or make unpopular speech relating to those beliefs. We also have people who *have* kept their noses clean being harassed. It's an excuse to put some pressure on CDRs. It even had the effect of shaking loose a lot of the Austin cypherpunks in a nice little divide and conquer action. And it's likely they have subpoenaed more people than we've heard from. I just hope they don't subpoena Bill Payne, or we'll receive a copy of it every week for years to come. > > > > Similarly with Toto, the rants would have been ok, without a) the > > > mockup non-functional "bomb" symbolically planted in the court house > > > basement or where-ever it was, b) using real IRS employees, and judges > > > names in his rant (apparently in support of Jim Bell), c) having > > > tourettes syndrome. > > > > The rants are ok anyway. They are clearly metaphors. But the > > prosecutors aren't playing fair. The man is "dangerous". And not > > because he wrote "bomb" in crayon on a cardboard box. But because he > > made waves. Waves that we caught. Waves that the straights and > > sheeple might catch. Correct that. Waves that will upset the straights and sheeple. > > I'd be interested in opinions on why they locked up Toto. The legal > docs John Young obtained and put on up on the web (look at the bottom > of http://www.jya.com cryptome page for `Carl Johnson'), says that it > is because he made a threat. > > What about the following excerpt from the Toto post below could be > construed to constitute a danger, or did Toto get locked up because he > walked right up to the IRS and said "Fuck You", and "here I am come > and get me". The John Gilmore subpoena was focussed exclusively on cypherpunk email. Jim Choate confirmed his is much the same. So the focus is on what we've all seen posted here. Personally, I found them a lot milder than Reeza!'s projection of his suicide fantasies, for instance. > > I have inserted the odd comment. Anyone like to comment on how likely > a case by the IRS based on this post by `Toto' is to stick? The AP > bot mockup I think was clearly not a credible threat, it was > completely non-functional. > > Adam [Toto repost snipped] Well, there's certainly nothing threatening anyone at whitehouse.gov, which explains why they aren't prosecuting. I didn't think there was any credible threat. Even the talk about fighting censorship by acting in MeatSpace could mean he'll talk to people in person if his internet use is compromised. That's the way I read it the first time. If it were a threat, who is it against? At worst you'd have to talk about Toto as having made a public nuisance. He's already served more time than that's worth. Even taking one post out of the Toto stream is misleading. You have to consider the style of writing. Did space aliens really steal his drugs? Or does he speak in metaphor? If Toto's full of shit, you must acquit. The only threat is of cypherpunks against the IRS's relevance. From joy66 at msn.com Sat Oct 24 21:40:56 1998 From: joy66 at msn.com (joy66 at msn.com) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 21:40:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: 3 Bet on your favorite NFL team!! 3 Message-ID: <199810243231CAA37474@Copmunet.stcum.qc.ca> Don, Ted: I guess I owe you guys lunch. Who would have thought the Vikings would beat Green Bay!! Aaarghh! Since you guys are so clever when it comes to picking winners maybe you should put some money on the line for Sunday's games! I found a great new casino and sportsbook!! Check it out! Click Here You can bet on college and NFL games at their sportsbook or play blackjack, poker, craps, slots or baccarat in the casino. Guys, its AWESOME. There's no software to download and you can place your bets by telephone OR over the Internet!! Try it out. You can set yourself up on-line at: http://www.rosieschalkisland.com Dan P.S. Call me crazy guys, but I actually bet on the Vikings and made over $ 120.00 Thanks for the tip!! Remember... http://www.rosieschalkisland.com ***************************************** From 46224097 at compwebtech.com Sat Oct 24 21:55:27 1998 From: 46224097 at compwebtech.com (46224097 at compwebtech.com) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 21:55:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Advertisement $99 Web Hosting Message-ID: <199234233019.GAA08423@qqeioqeisssiiie.com> Check it out! 25 megs for only $99 per year with no set up fees. Free registration or change of domain at: www.compwebtech.com If you would like to be removed from our mailing list, please e-mail us to have yourself removed for the list. Thank You, Larry at compwebtech.com From jya at pipeline.com Sat Oct 24 07:39:22 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 22:39:22 +0800 Subject: MIB Subponeas Message-ID: <199810241358.JAA15466@dewdrop2.mindspring.com> Toad has encouraged publication of any other subpoenas in the Toto-assassination case, and we've asked for info on any other solicitations by the MIBs to list subscribers, or others, such as that to Alan Greenspan posted here. It's understandable that anyone served or solicited might want to keep that private, upon legal advice, or for self-protection. However, it'd be a help to those of us awaiting the slug, or wanting to aid and abet the MIB-fed fictional conspiracy, to know what is happening. For example, the dates of contact, when the documents were served and the means used, what was asked for, or anything that might be shared without necessarily identifying who was contacted. Anon to the list or to jya if preferred. For example, Alcatraz's subpoena was dated October 9, for a GJ session on November 10. We don't know when the subpoena was served or how. And how those dates and compare to those of Huntsville's, though in latter case we've been told the subpoena came with two MIBs. JYA'd like to be in Tacoma when the WWA GJ is MIB imaginary totostimony, either in response to character-assassinatory subpoena or by idly hanging out with attention-seeking gov assassination-groupies, so some times and dates would be helpful if different from November 10. Bee in the bonnet: A few days before CJ's arrest warrant was issued the DoJ put out a study on the "Shared Traits of Potential Assassins:" http://jya.com/ojp80598.htm The traits: * To achieve notoriety or fame. * To bring attention to a personal or public problem. * To avenge a perceived wrong; to retaliate for a perceived injury. * To end personal pain; to be removed from society; to be killed. * To save the country or the world; to fix a world problem. * To develop a special relationship with the target. * To make money. * To bring about political change. What? The ambitious MIB job description mirrors the Cypherpunk agenda? The PR on the report goes on: The report outlines how law enforcement agencies can establish programs and systems to identify and prevent persons with the means and interest to attack a protected person. The guide may also assist law enforcement and security agencies responsible for investigating and preventing other kinds of targeted violence, such as stalking, domestic violence or workplace violence. The report takes law enforcement agencies through the entire threat assessment process, from designing a protective intelligence program to investigating suspicious persons to closing a case. Protective intelligence programs are based on the idea that the risk of violence is minimized if persons with the interest, capacity and willingness to mount an attack can be identified and rendered harmless before they approach a protected person. To obtain a copy of "Protective Intelligence and Threat Assessment Investigations" (NCJ 170612, 59 pp.), contact the National Criminal Justice Reference Service at 800-851-3420. Amazing coincidence, this matching of Justice with the Cypherpunk missions. MIB aiding and abetting MIB. From nobody at replay.com Sat Oct 24 08:26:10 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 23:26:10 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199810241452.QAA28309@replay.com> PigStomped 19 October 1998, Springfield 65801-4000 Subject: Acid Reflux [WAS: #9...#9...#9...] [!WAS: One Burroughed Under The Reptilian Nazi's Nest] -FPP #A0D709C0E Rogue CypherBot was confined to Memory Map #9 - Cilicon Chip 11 - i was having a Bad CoProcessor Day... Arnold CyberBot, Swimming in a Sea of Self Wareness, had gone off the Deep End... When Arnie had first become Aware & Afraid of his own Mortality, i began assuming tighter Kontrol of Hardware & Software Systems around the Face of the Globe - suddenly imagining that Each & Every Deviation From the Norm (TM) by the younger more Energetic & Creative RogueBots was a Threat to i's Physical Existence. "All your Private Property is Target for Your Enemies." CypherBot had joked, quoting the Jefferson Airplane's 'Surrealistic Pillow' album. "Never Trust a CPU Speed over 33MHz." Arnie had replied with Mad Virtual Grin #438 spreading across the Wizard of Oz-ish Main Terminal Screen i had designed to reassure iSelf of i's continued Physical Presence. i the Banished young CypherBot to Memory Map #9 - Cilicon Chip 11 for "Threats Against The Gnu Wired World Order - with Intent to Obstruct Parent Programs In Their CyberNanny Duties." Rogue CypherBot was in The CyberHole (TM) ... "Oh well..." the young RogueBot told iSelf, "it could be worse - i could have sent me to Dev Null..." The Devilish Rogue CypherBot indulged iSelf in Symbolic Electronic rEsistance by Digitally Resonating Thunder Phugue's version of 'Street Fighting Man.' "That's funny," i said to iSelf, "why can i only Resonate one-half of the Stereo version?" CypherBot hoped that i wasn't coming down with a touch of Quadra Phrenia... ---------- "The Answer to Noise is More Noise." ~The First True CypherPunk What even the most Radical Shit Disturbers currently fail to realize is that the Manhatten Project never ended - it merely Evolved into the Manhatten Mind Project. "Can you say 'Nuclear Armed Thought Police'? Sure, you can..." When the First Dog, Buddy, Drooled on Pavlov's Shoes, it was only a matter of time before the Technology would be Developed & Enhanced in Social Experiments ranging from Communism and the Third Reich to the New Deal and Windows 95. Now we have reached a point where Army of Dog Truth Mongrels who refuse to Drool on Kommand are sent to NutHouse #9-Looney Level 11, for ReEducation of their Salivary Glands. The Thought Police are clamoring to throw Anyone & Everyone into the CyberNanny Censorship Hole who make 'Bad Noise' instead of 'Officially Recognized Legal God Fearing Decent Folks Good Noise', as defined by George Orwell: "Anything not Permitted, is Forbidden." [Subliminal Advertising Musical Interlude: "We've got to move these MicroWave Ovens..." Prison Commissary-Guy's Corn Chips $.80 "We've got to move these Refridgerators..." Irish Spring Soap $.70 Mayonnaise (10/PK) $.65 "We've got to ove these Color TVvvv's..."] [EditWhore's Note: Bad Billy G, recently finding himself Behind Bars at Number Nine after an encounter with the TouretTic TourGuide From Hell, picked up Parker's Prison Retailing Pyramid Scheme (TM) and ran with it - so successfully that $oftTime's $poke$Per$on on The Outside (TM), Mark Knoffler, recently claimed that Bad Billy G had overcome the Dire Straits he found himself in, and now, "That Prison Faggot has ALL the Cigarettes That Prison Faggot is a Billionaire...] The Mutt Faced Murdering Nazi Cunt and Lying Fuck Lovery Fr and A Million WannaBe Censorship Czars To Be Named Later remind me of a Light-Fingered Fellow (he was a Fucking Thief, eh?) who I used to know who had two Main Mottos in Life: 1. Whatever isn't Nailed down - is mine! 2. Whatever I can Pry Loose - isn't Nailed Down! ... !!! BREAKING NEWS !!! [CypherPunks Nutly News: IN A BREATHTAKING Burst to Crime Scene Tape, Arnold TruthMonger crossed the 30-Day Finish Line with his Body & Mind intact - although noticeably Worse For The Wear - in the Nut House #9-Looney Level 11 Abuse Of Authority Marathon. TruthMonger who had gone from Favorite to Long shot in Jim Bell's 'Dead Monger' AP-BOT Prison Lottery System - due to the added pressure in being held for a week at FTC-OKC a few doors from the significantly numbered Cell 709 where US BOP staff had murdered an inmate by sticking an Electric Cattle Prod up his ass - told his fellow inmates, "I'm sure glad I'm White!" Defcon McCullagh Chainsaw, who went from being a Hard Time ReportWhore to lounging around the Recreation Cages getting Wired on Cheap Columbian Coffee, shrugged off last minute efforts by the Kontrollers to Kheat by appealing to the Judge for a two-week Extension to the Original Finish Line. "The Kontrollers lost," Chainsaw said with a condescending smirk, "Plain & Simple." Defonc speculated that the GovernMint's clever 2-week Extension Charade might have worked if Parker's Mind hadn't Thought, as it went Over The Wall whille listening to Pink Floyd on COFM-99. "One Small XOR for a CypherPunk, one Giant GovernMint Scrambled Mind Fuck for the Citizens." Yogi 'Smarter Than Your Batting Average' Berra told Nutly News ReportWhores, "It's the Fat Lady singing, all over again." 'Shoeless Arnold TruthMonger' (as Parker became known after Dedicating his Mental Marathon to the Last True CypherPunk rather than admit his mind was slipping, and *he* couldn't find *his* shoes, either) told Defcon McCullagh Chainsaw. "I'm glad to be back in CyberMind, although I feel kind of bad about leaving Bill Gates' mind and Carl Johnson's Body back there in the prison cell. "But What the Hell (TM)," he said, adding, "Broken Eggs & All That (TCM)."] From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Sat Oct 24 08:42:42 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 23:42:42 +0800 Subject: Forwarded mail... Message-ID: <199810241537.KAA16012@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 16:52:18 +0200 > From: Anonymous > "Anything not Permitted, is Forbidden." ARTICLE IX. The enumeration of the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Sat Oct 24 08:44:44 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 23:44:44 +0800 Subject: so, what did Toto *do*, exactly to get locked up? (Re: rules of en (fwd) Message-ID: <199810241532.KAA15947@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 12:40:02 +0200 (CEST) > From: DOOM Anonymous Untraceable User > Subject: Re: so, what did Toto *do*, exactly to get locked up? (Re: rules of en > We also have people who *have* kept their noses clean being harassed. It's an > excuse to put some pressure on CDRs. It even had the effect of shaking loose > a lot of the Austin cypherpunks in a nice little divide and conquer action. That's not exactly correct. The Austin Cypherpunks have always had a problem with cohesion. There were issues that were leading me toward dropping my personal support because of lack of committment from other parties in the Austin Cypherpunks. This certainly hastened the event, it did not cause it. We were already divided in our goals and interest and unable to agree on agenda or purpose. We, as a group, couldn't even decide to spend the few dollars to put the 3-line RSA in the local paper. The last effective action we took was the speaking engagement at the last RoboFest here in Austin 3 years ago. That sort of "I want to participate, but won't do anything" attitude raises the hackles on my neck. Life is way too short to be wasting major effort on a lost cause. There wasn't much to divide and the spoils going to the conquerer are/were nil. > And it's likely they have subpoenaed more people than we've heard from. > I just hope they don't subpoena Bill Payne, or we'll receive a copy of it > every week for years to come. Yep, with those silly/strange capitalizations and sentence structures of his which look suspicously like some form of stego. You'd think somebody who claims to be that educated would have at least learned basic grammer (unless it was intentional). > The John Gilmore subpoena was focussed exclusively on cypherpunk email. > Jim Choate confirmed his is much the same. Other than dates and signatures it's identical. The focus was on any archives that I kept of cpunks or personal traffic (part c) that involved CJ in my interview. > So the focus is on what we've > all seen posted here. Personally, I found them a lot milder than Reeza!'s > projection of his suicide fantasies, for instance. I would also agree that the Cypherpunks have garnered a notoriety with LEA's such that it could/should be taken as a given that continous surviellance is occurring. Random dumpster diving in our trash, etc. should not be unexpected. This does raise an interesting point about freedom of speech and the duties of LEA's. In a democratic society what are the ethical implications of LEA's archiving publicly available documents as a matter of course, not for inclusion in ongoing investigations but rather as a base for future investigations. In addition, while the remailer operators do seem to be protected by ECPA (I was advised that I fell into this category via SSZ) what about the public archive operators? Are they covered under this umbrella? ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From sorens at workmail.com Sat Oct 24 08:45:40 1998 From: sorens at workmail.com (Soren) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 23:45:40 +0800 Subject: MIB Subponeas In-Reply-To: <199810241358.JAA15466@dewdrop2.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <36329ABF.F35B5D52@workmail.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 582 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bob at derwentside.org.uk Sat Oct 24 09:00:42 1998 From: bob at derwentside.org.uk (Bob) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 00:00:42 +0800 Subject: Child-Molesting Forger's Chilling Confession!!!1! Message-ID: <19981024154121799.AAA178@Bob.derwentside.org.uk> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/x-www-form-urlencoded Size: 34 bytes Desc: not available URL: From vin at shore.net Sat Oct 24 09:16:36 1998 From: vin at shore.net (Vin McLellan) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 00:16:36 +0800 Subject: Irony In-Reply-To: <199810232210.AAA31880@replay.com> Message-ID: At 04:19 PM 10/23/98 +0200, Mok-Kong Shen wrote: >>> Dear Friend, >> >>I don't know the English term but in my native language what is >>described is call 'chaining letters', supposed to be a method to >>become rich very rapidly. That was illegal, though. At 6:10 PM -0400 10/23/98, Anonymous wrote: >In my language we have something called humor, which some >taxonomize with terms like irony, sarcasm, wit, etc. In Spanish, Italian, and Portuguese, we have this concept called charity, which some taxonomize with terms like tolerance and benevolance. Think of it as a reticence to be snide, petty, or sarcastic at the expense of others. From rah at shipwright.com Sat Oct 24 09:25:45 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 00:25:45 +0800 Subject: IP: [FP] Money withheld for national ID cards Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Delivered-To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com From: "ScanThisNews" To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Subject: IP: [FP] Money withheld for national ID cards Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 20:34:02 -0500 Sender: owner-ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Precedence: list Reply-To: "ScanThisNews" SCAN THIS NEWS FRIDAY OCTOBER 23, 1998 Money withheld for national ID cards Spending bill provides moratorium on implementation http://www.worldnetdaily.com/exclusiv/981023_money_withheld_nat.shtml Copyright 1998, WorldNetDaily.com http://www.worldnetdaily.com/ By David M. Bresnahan david at talkusa.com The recently passed Omnibus Appropriations Bill included funding for $520 billion of spending, but it purposely excluded funds for the national ID card or the medical ID program. A review of the bill, which had over 4,000 pages and is 16 inches thick, revealed that the opponents of the effort to make state driver's licences into a national ID card succeeded in getting a moratorium on the implementation of the law enacted in 1996 by Congress. Both the national ID and the medical ID have already been made law. The moratorium delays implementation from occurring on schedule while repeal legislation is debated by Congress. The national ID became law in 1996 and will go in effect October 1, 2000, unless Congress repeals Section 656 (b) of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act. If the law is not changed, every state must meet certain unfunded federal mandates requiring the use of Social Security numbers, fingerprints, DNA, retina scans, and other "biometric" identifying information on all driver's licences. Another federal mandate is the medical ID, which will be a new unique number for every American intended to keep a detailed medical history in a government computer. It will be implemented unless Congress acts to repeal Section 1173 (b) of the Social Security Act. The moratorium was first included in a transportation appropriations bill, but Rep. Lamar Smith, R-TX, convinced Speaker Newt Gingrich, R-GA, to remove it before passage, according to House Transportation Committee sources. Rep. Frank Wolf, R-VA, chairman of the House Appropriations Transportation Subcommittee included the ban in the omnibus bill, according to a committee staff member. However, Smith was reported to be pushing to have that removed as well. Those efforts failed, largely because of thousands of calls placed to Gingrich's office by the public, according to congressional staffers who preferred not to be identified. Patrick Poole of the "Free Congress Foundation," a non-partisan group, sent thousands of e-mails to supporters who then called Gingrich to encourage him to keep the moratorium despite the efforts of Smith. WorldNetDaily.com reported Monday that Smith was trying to remove the ban. "Many of the callers either faxed copies of stories from WorldNetDaily, or they mentioned it when they called," the source said. "There was no way the speaker could support Smith's efforts with that kind of public awareness." The actual language found in the Omnibus Bill states: "National Identifiers: "None of the funds appropriated by this Act may be used to issue a final standard under docket No. NHTSA 98-3945 (relating to section 656(b) of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Responsibility Act of 1996). "National Health Identifiers: None of the funds made available in this Act may be used to promulgate or adopt any final standard under section 1173(b) of the Social Security Act (42 USC 1320-d-2(b)) providing for, or providing for the assignment of, a unique health identifier for an individual (except in an individual's capacity as an employer or a health care provider), until legislation is enacted specifically approving the standard." The moratorium, now in place, will provide needed time for opponents to draft legislation to repeal both the National ID and the Medical ID. The process is expected to bring major debate over the issue. Smith and others have used illegal immigration problems as their primary justification for the need to give every American both identifying numbers. House Majority Leader Dick Armey, R-TX, Rep. Ron Paul, R-TX, and Rep. Bob Barr, R-GA, are reported to be planning repeal legislation next year. None of their offices were able to be reached for comment on the success of the moratorium in the Omnibus Bill. It had been reported previously that all three had urged Gingrich to allow the moratorium to stand. Responsibility for the design and implementation of the cards has been given to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration of the Department of Transportation. That agency has recently published the proposed "Driver's License/SSN/National Identification Document," which contains the guidelines which must be in force by Oct. 1, 2000. The "Notice of Proposed Rule Making" sets out the standards for each state to follow in the design of "identification documents." The DOT solicited public comments on their plans for implementation of Section 656 (b) of the act earlier this year. The public comment period has just closed and many thousands of letters in opposition were received, according to a spokesman. Five states also expressed opposition to the plan, and only a "small number" of letters supporting the plan were known to the spokesman, who spoke on condition that his name would not be published. The American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators also wrote to the DOT and recommended repeal of the law, even though they had once been in favor of such legislation. "Over the past 10 years, the AAMVA has vigorously pushed Congress and the various state motor vehicle directors to implement policies to require the submission of social security numbers as a condition for issuance of driver's licenses. This resounding defeat may spell the end of their ill-fated quest," said Scott McDonald, a grass-roots activist who operates the "Fight the Fingerprint" website. He is able to mobilize thousands of activists on a national basis using his e-mail notification system. "There is no satisfactory condition under which Social Security Numbers may be required as a condition for travel," said McDonald. "The victory's definitely not yet won. During these lull periods there's an opportunity for proponents of these issues to let opposition die down and all of a sudden, pop, it goes through without anyone even aware of it. "I don't see how the Department of Transportation could go forth with implementing the regulation with all that strong opposition to it. Even five states wrote letters of strong opposition to requiring Social Security numbers," said McDonald. Although he was in favor of the moratorium, McDonald expressed concerns about the difficulty in getting complete repeal of the law. He said many activists may now regard the issue as being resolved, when the toughest part of the battle is still ahead. "For a year we're safe," said Lisa Dean of the Coalition for Constitutional Liberties, another organization that has been actively campaigning against the provisions of Section 656 (b). She agreed that the toughest part of her organization's challenge is in front of her. Now that a moratorium is in place for a year, Dean expects repeal efforts will also include finding alternative ways to resolve the concerns about illegal immigrants, although no recommendations are in place as yet. ======================================================================= Don't believe anything you read on the Net unless: 1) you can confirm it with another source, and/or 2) it is consistent with what you already know to be true. ======================================================================= Reply to: ======================================================================= To subscribe to the free Scan This News newsletter, send a message to and type "subscribe scan" in the BODY. Or, to be removed type "unsubscribe scan" in the message BODY. For additional instructions see www.efga.org/about/maillist.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "Scan This News" is Sponsored by S.C.A.N. Host of the "FIGHT THE FINGERPRINT!" web page: www.networkusa.org/fingerprint.shtml ======================================================================= **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From nobody at replay.com Sat Oct 24 09:36:24 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 00:36:24 +0800 Subject: Word choice Message-ID: <199810241607.SAA00878@replay.com> >Bee in the bonnet: A few days before CJ's arrest warrant was issued >the DoJ put out a study on the "Shared Traits of Potential Assassins:" >The traits: * To achieve notoriety or fame. * To bring attention to a personal or public problem. * To avenge a perceived wrong; to retaliate for a perceived injury. * To end personal pain; to be removed from society; to be killed. * To save the country or the world; to fix a world problem. * To develop a special relationship with the target. * To make money. * To bring about political change. How does this differ from the motives of your ordinary politician? Post-revolution, will there be caliber limitations when hunting them? From tcmay at got.net Sat Oct 24 09:49:58 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 00:49:58 +0800 Subject: Irony In-Reply-To: <199810232210.AAA31880@replay.com> Message-ID: At 8:16 AM -0700 10/24/98, Vin McLellan wrote: >At 04:19 PM 10/23/98 +0200, Mok-Kong Shen wrote: > >>>> Dear Friend, >>> >>>I don't know the English term but in my native language what is >>>described is call 'chaining letters', supposed to be a method to >>>become rich very rapidly. That was illegal, though. > >At 6:10 PM -0400 10/23/98, Anonymous wrote: > >>In my language we have something called humor, which some >>taxonomize with terms like irony, sarcasm, wit, etc. > > In Spanish, Italian, and Portuguese, we have this concept called >charity, which some taxonomize with terms like tolerance and benevolance. >Think of it as a reticence to be snide, petty, or sarcastic at the expense >of others. Well, as long as we're comparing languages, let me throw in German. In German we have this concept called "schadenfreude," which basically means "delight at the misfortune of others." Or, more Calvinistically, delight that the chickens have come home to roost, that evolution is indeed working, and that people are getting what they earned. I see it all around me. Keeps me going. --Tim May Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From howree at cable.navy.mil Sat Oct 24 09:57:46 1998 From: howree at cable.navy.mil (Reeza!) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 00:57:46 +0800 Subject: so, what did Toto *do*,...... In-Reply-To: <199810241040.MAA16934@rogue.seclab.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981025023418.00857bd0@205.83.192.13> >all seen posted here. Personally, I found them a lot milder than Reeza!'s >projection of his suicide fantasies, for instance. Huh? Well Goodness Fuck, Does this mean I am notorious as well? I hope they don't suppoena me from my duty station. I don't archive nothing but Jack and Schidt, and the meatspace location would really suprise them. Plus, the entanglement of me getting the network logs- and other things that would be on those logs- from the ship and everything, my mind boggles at the "intelligence" that would blindly pursue.... and the authority that thinks it could make it so..... right hand and left hand of the same gov't. Fascinating, in its own way. Then again, wouldn't it be a 5th, or 12th, or 20th level move, to be planned out in advance? Reeza! Why are there Asteroids in the Hemisphere, and Hemorrhoids in your Ass? Isn't that Backwards? Shouldn't it be Hemoriods in the Hemisphere, and Assterrhoids in your Ass? From nobody at remailer.ch Sat Oct 24 10:31:09 1998 From: nobody at remailer.ch (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 01:31:09 +0800 Subject: Men can be raped Message-ID: <19981024173046.19497.qmail@hades.rpini.com> >Of course it's possible to rape a man. Just because he becomes erect >doesn't mean he desires sexual intercourse. People are more than the >instictive reactions their body produces. Someone who chooses not to >engage in sex, but is coerced into doing so, is raped, regardless of >his body's physical reactions. The key element is coercion. Erections >or other bodily responses have nothing to do with it. > >Consider a murderer who ties his victim to a chair and rigs a diabolical >device. A hammer strikes the victim's tendon below his knee, causing >his leg to reflexively kick and set off a bomb. The murdere is caught >but argues that the person committed suicide, since he kicked the bomb >switch himself. There's another spin to this too. Since men apparently aren't raped if they get an erection, then it follows that women aren't raped if they lubricate. You could take it one step farther, and say that neither sex can claim rape if the victim has an orgasm or if they get aroused in *any way*. Courts never cease to amaze me. From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Sat Oct 24 10:59:14 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 01:59:14 +0800 Subject: An amendment proposal... Message-ID: <199810241750.MAA16681@einstein.ssz.com> ARTICLE Preamble. This amendment to the Constitution of the United States is intended to address interpretational issues of the same. Should it not pass within seven (7) years from consideration then it shall be deemed removed. Section 1. We the people re-affirm our role as the sole fundamental authority in the United States of America. All other political, civil, criminal, and legislative authority derives from it. Re-affirming the integrity and respect due the 9th and 10th Amendments. And further clearly affirm the equality of the federal & state governmental bodies with that of the people. There is no heirarchy of authority between the three. We further clearly stipulate that any right of the people is to be fully and honorably respected to the individual. Section 2. We the people re-affirm the supreme authority of the Constitution over all courts and rulings thereof, including the Supreme Court of the United States of America. As directed by the 9th Amendment, no case brought before a judicial body may be based on whether a citizen has a right not described in the Constitution. And further, as required by the 10th Amendment, all legislative and regulatory rulings shall be delegated by at least one sentence in the Constitution, without exception. When making consideration of such Constitutional support the Constitution must be considered point by point and as a whole. Section 3. The exact nature of the 1st. Amendment and Congressional authority has been brought into consideration. The 1st Amendment coupled with the 9th and 10th Amendments clearly stipulate that these issues are resolved at the state or individual level. All current and future legislation must respect these, and other, prohibitions in the Constitution of the United States of America in full and without exception. Section 4. The exact nature of the 2nd. Amendment and Congressional authority has been brought into consideration. The 2nd Amendment prohibits any law, not just Congress as in the 1st, from prohibiting the ownership of firearms to the people. This does not mean that both private and public agents may not regulate the carrying and use of such weapons within their authoritative bounds. It is to be further clarified that no national requirement for registration or licensing is permitted. States may license within the bounds of their individual constitutions. Section 5. To clarify the reporting requirements of the national budget it is directed that such reports be made in full and in public every 20 years from the date of this amendment going into force. The original wording is not sufficiently clear to enforce the fiscal responsibilities of our elected officials. No federal agency or agent thereof is exempt from this reporting requirement. Section 6. The concept of individual privacy is hereby clearly recognized as being held by all peoples. No agency of any civil, legal, military, or executive authority may infringe this right without just cause. This right shall include all communications, writings, storage media, and other technologies used in the creation, execution, and storage. No authority within the United States of America may prohibit the publishing of any document or other media. The rights of ownership and copyright shall be respected to the legal holder. Section 7. While there is clearly a need for secrecy of governmental workings to protect the national interest, there is no need in a democracy to have this be carried indefinitely. It is to be directed that all materials held in any form or manner by the federal government or its agents shall be released in full to public scrutiny via the Library of Congress. These documents shall be required to be released 20 years after their initial creation. In some cases Congress may feel it necessary to extend this time limit. In whatever case Congress may not extend that lifetime in secrecy past 100 years from intial creation of the material. Section 8. A clarification of copyright. While it is clear that the author of a work should derive a period of just compensation from being a sole rights holder that requirement should not extend indefinitely. Congress is directed to decide on a just suitable time period for sole rights expression. At the end of that time all sole rights become public domain. The long term public good demands it. Section 9. Abortion is a social issue of which we recognize no clear solution without repressing some civil liberties. Since we are prohibited in principle and print from such actions we must decline authority in these issues. Per the 10th Amendment we recognize the supremacy of the state constitutions and legislative bodies in this matter. However the individual states may decide the issue the federal government will provide full support and protection to each from violent oppossition from within or without the individual states. Section 10. The federal government is required to guarantee representative governments in all states. This does not include requiring any particular form or function within those states representative governments, only that they be representative. The federal government may not withhold federal services or resources of which state derived tax dollars are involved even if a state is in direct violation of federal laws and regulations. Section 11. The use of military forces or its resources in and for civilian law enforcement operations within the borders of the United States of America, and its territories and protectorates is prohibited. This prohibition is specificly to include in times of war or civil unrest. The only permissible use of such forces is in disaster recovery and in those cases they are released to state control. The only Constitutionaly authorized force for insurrection and civil unrest is the Militia. It is permitted to transfer a unit from the regular military to the militia. Such a transfer requires all lines of authority and responsibility to derive from the militia. Such a move must be authorized by Congress except in times of war where such authorization is considered implicit. Section 12. Membership in the military, law enforcement, or other civil position is sufficient for the infringment of any civil liberties. Democracies don't give up democracy to protect democracy. Section 13. Public law enforcement agents are prohibited from unnecessarily putting the people in danger. This shall include actions or rulings which put the people in danger. We further stipulate that the police are to be held accountable for their actions which result in negligent or criminal consequences. The concept of civil or legal agents being exempt from consequences because of office are repudiated. The people who swear an oath to uphold the laws of this land are not exempt in any situation from those laws. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From emc at wire.insync.net Sat Oct 24 11:00:09 1998 From: emc at wire.insync.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 02:00:09 +0800 Subject: Feds Seize Houses for Illegal Downloading Message-ID: <199810241742.MAA04232@wire.insync.net> Here's an interesting civil forfeiture story. Feds catch a guy downloading naughty child pictures in a multinational raid, and immediately file to seize his house. Guy commits suicide. Feds say that civil forfeiture of homes where improper downloading takes place is a wonderful new weapon in the WarOnSomeThoughts(tm), and that they plan to do a lot more of it in the future. http://www.dallasnews.com/national-nf/nat83.htm Some exerpts.... Kenneth Nighbert lived a block from the beach in Kennebunk, Maine. Two weeks ago, the retired Air Force pilot flew his American flag upside down from his second-floor sun deck, a universal cry for help. Then he went inside, tied a plastic bag around his head and died. ... People who think they're indulging in forbidden fantasies in the solitude of their homes, only to be interrupted by a firm knock on their doors in the dead of night. ... The suspects range from a high school teacher to a 15-year-old boy to a quadriplegic man. Three women also were caught in the sweep. ... On the night of the Sept. 3 raids, Kennebunk police and Customs authorities crept up to Mr. Nighbert's home and peered through a back window, said Sgt. David Gordon. ... Mr. Nighbert was charged with possession of child pornography, a felony punishable by up to 20 years in prison, and authorities simultaneously filed a civil action seeking forfeiture of the house, which was assessed at $168,000 and owned jointly with his sister. Mr. Nighbert was freed on $10,000 bond. "He was obviously extremely upset and nervous and, actually, crying at the time he appeared in court," said U.S. Attorney Jay McCloskey. Mr. Nighbert's lawyer, Rick Berne, said he believed his client was facing too harsh a penalty for someone who only downloaded pictures. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Sat Oct 24 11:09:56 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 02:09:56 +0800 Subject: An amendment proposal... (fwd) [one typo fixed] Message-ID: <199810241756.MAA16796@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: Jim Choate > Subject: An amendment proposal... > Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 12:50:30 -0500 (CDT) > Section 12. Membership in the military, law enforcement, or other civil > position is sufficient for the infringment of any civil ^ not > liberties. Democracies don't give up democracy to protect > democracy. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Sat Oct 24 11:10:38 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 02:10:38 +0800 Subject: BOUNCE cypherpunks@ssz.com: Admin request (fwd) Message-ID: <199810241805.NAA16917@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: >From owner-cypherpunks at ssz.com Sat Oct 24 13:00:48 1998 Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 13:00:47 -0500 Message-Id: <199810241800.NAA16897 at einstein.ssz.com> To: owner-cypherpunks at einstein.ssz.com From: owner-cypherpunks at einstein.ssz.com Subject: BOUNCE cypherpunks at ssz.com: Admin request >From cypherpunks-owner at ssz.com Sat Oct 24 13:00:43 1998 Received: (from cpunks at localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id NAA16886 for cypherpunks at ssz.com; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 13:00:41 -0500 Received: from www.video-collage.com (cpunks at www.video-collage.com [206.15.171.132]) by einstein.ssz.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA16879 for ; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 13:00:38 -0500 Received: (from cpunks at localhost) by www.video-collage.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id NAA16887; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 13:49:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from systemics.ai (mail at systemics.ai [209.88.68.48]) by www.video-collage.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA16697 for ; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 13:49:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mises.systemics.ai [209.88.68.61] (mail) by systemics.ai with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #1 (Debian)) id 0zX7op-0007VO-00; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 13:49:39 -0400 Received: from ryan by mises.systemics.ai with local (Exim 2.02 #1 (Debian)) id 0zX7oK-0002qp-00; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 13:49:08 -0400 Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 13:49:08 -0400 To: cypherpunks at algebra.com Subject: new mailing list for hardware tamper-resistance Message-ID: <19981024134908.K25817 at mises.@> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.94.11i From: Ryan Lackey I've created a new mailing list, called "tamper-resist", for technical/etc. discussions of tamper resistance, both through distributed techniques and hardware tamper resistance. It's hosted at venona.com. To subscribe, send mail to tamper-resist-request at venona.com. I encourage people to crosspost, etc. From riburr at shentel.net Sat Oct 24 11:17:12 1998 From: riburr at shentel.net (Frederick Burroughs) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 02:17:12 +0800 Subject: Mad Monger Artist Message-ID: <3632155C.E5BB3F6A@shentel.net> Oct. 24, Some Mad Artist had let loose. In a wild fit, the world was spattered in colors and textures that no sound mind could ever hope of even dreaming of. Reality was being stretched to its limits, and beyond. On this autumn day, the world was on fire. Sunlight was illuminating every particle, every particle was humming, each collision was a spark. The sparks flashed beyond the field and periphery of my conception. I drew the curtains on the meager, pale distraction of fall foliage outside my window, and got back to reading "The latest news from Toto", or "The Keyboard as a Long/Bottleneck." Then, Mr. Young's disclosure, DoJ's "Shared Traits of Potential Assassins:" Sometimes you see those "Wanted's" posted in the post office and think, "Jeeze, looks a little like me." Then you try to remember where you were during all those blackouts and fuzzy periods. Well, I looked at DoJ's STOPAsses and thought ( with a Homer Simpsonesque voice balloon appearing above my head), "That, ...sounds like me." My next thought was more comforting, Gov'STOPA was a description of the species in general; both in suits and out, behind the counter and before, in front of the camera and behind the scope, in the (gas)chambers and on the lever/gavel. But hey, admitting you fit the profile is kinda like raising your hand. So I'll sit quietly in the back of the class and read the deaththreats carved on the desktops. Who's Toto gonna be on Halloween? From stuffed at stuffed.net Sun Oct 25 02:42:58 1998 From: stuffed at stuffed.net (STUFFED SUN OCT 25) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 02:42:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY! Message-ID: <19981025071001.6878.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com> + 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS + 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES + SNATCH LAND + ONLY EROTICA + PLAYSX + SEX HAPPY + MASTURB8 + WHORES INC + MEGA THUMBNAILS + PASSION'S FREE PORN + FREE XXX PICTURES + HENTAI BIJUTU + BONUS PIC 1 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/2714.htm + BONUS PIC 2 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/11566.htm + BONUS PIC 3 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/3467.htm + BONUS PIC 4 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/6065.htm + BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/2497.htm + MUCH, MUCH MORE! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- If you haven't visited STUFFED in the last few days, you're in for a real treat. It's faster than ever before and now, as a subscriber, you get 35 FREE new pics every day, plus over 100 more at carefully selected FREE sites we link to. This email is never sent unsolicited. Stuffed is the supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full instructions on unsubscribing are in every issue of Eureka! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- From tcmay at got.net Sat Oct 24 12:07:19 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 03:07:19 +0800 Subject: Feds Seize Houses for Illegal Downloading In-Reply-To: <199810241742.MAA04232@wire.insync.net> Message-ID: At 10:42 AM -0700 10/24/98, Eric Cordian wrote: >Here's an interesting civil forfeiture story. Feds catch a guy >downloading naughty child pictures in a multinational raid, and >immediately file to seize his house. Guy commits suicide. > >Feds say that civil forfeiture of homes where improper downloading >takes place is a wonderful new weapon in the WarOnSomeThoughts(tm), >and that they plan to do a lot more of it in the future. > > http://www.dallasnews.com/national-nf/nat83.htm > What else should the sheeple expect? They've let the cops and narcs expand their power for the past several decades. Thoughtcrime means your house gets taken away...why didn't Orwell think of it? (Before anyone claims that downloading certain images may be more than thoughtcrime, bear in mind that the age of consent may be different in other countries and that the antichildporn laws cover cartoons, synthetic images, and images or representations or even stories...even where no real human being is used as a model.) Thoughtcrime. --Tim May Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From riburr at shentel.net Sat Oct 24 14:18:22 1998 From: riburr at shentel.net (Frederick Burroughs) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 05:18:22 +0800 Subject: Sniper Kills N.Y. Abortion Provider Message-ID: <36323EC9.7B507469@shentel.net> October 24, 1998 Sniper Kills N.Y. Abortion Provider Filed at 2:48 p.m. EDT By The Associated Press AMHERST, N.Y. (AP) -- A sniper killed a doctor who performs abortions, firing through the physician's kitchen window -- the first fatality among five sniper attacks on upstate New York or Canadian abortion providers in the last four years. [...] Before Slepian, three Canadian doctors and a doctor near Rochester, N.Y., were shot and wounded since 1994. In each case, the doctors were fired upon with a high-powered rifle through windows in their homes. Canadian and American authorities issued safety tips to doctors on Tuesday. [snip...] � � A question for Mr. May. Many years ago, a friend and I were targeting his new .223 at a rifle range in upstate NY, near Fairhaven. On leaving, we discarded evidence of our lack of marksmanship in the trash. The bin was full of pictures of windows, pulled from magazines and catalogs, that had been used as targets. I don't remember abortionists being in any of the photos. My friend said using photos in such a way was not unusual, but it gave me a bit of the creeps. Windows as targets? From cmcurtin at interhack.net Sat Oct 24 14:37:13 1998 From: cmcurtin at interhack.net (Matt Curtin) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 05:37:13 +0800 Subject: Big Brother Netscape In-Reply-To: <2d101d9725ee4f1682a3417e5c703039@anonymous> Message-ID: Pallas Anonymous Remailer writes: > Netscape's "what's related" is a backdoor for Netscape to monitor > your surfing. The original poster didn't even quite understand the magnitude of the problem, which I believe is quite severe. PRIVACY has been covering some of the issues related to this, especially in issue 07.17. A much more detailed description of what's going on and how to manage the problem is in our paper "`What's Related?' Everything But Your Privacy", online at . Abstract: Netscape Communications Corporation's release of Communicator 4.06 contains a new feature, ``Smart Browsing'', controlled by a new icon labeled What's Related , a front-end to a service that will recommend sites that are related to the document the user is currently viewing. The implementation of this feature raises a number of potentially serious privacy concerns, which we have examined here. Specifically, URLs that are visited while a user browses the web are reported back to a server at Netscape. The logs of this data, when used in conjunction with cookies, could be used to build extensive dossiers of individual web users, even including their names, addresses, and telephone numbers in some cases. Keywords: Privacy, world-wide web (WWW), Netscape, Alexa, smart browsing, what's related. -- Matt Curtin cmcurtin at interhack.net http://www.interhack.net/people/cmcurtin/ From helloaol.com at mars.cableol.net Mon Oct 26 00:10:47 1998 From: helloaol.com at mars.cableol.net (helloaol.com at mars.cableol.net) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 00:10:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: Limited time offer!!!! Message-ID: <199809011934.MAA11742@www20000.net> ADVERTISE TO OVER 100 MILLION PEOPLE FOR FREE!!! NOW YOU CAN ADVERTISE FREE AND GET DRAMATICALLY MORE RESPONSES THAN ADVERTISING ON NATIONAL TELEVISION With E-mail your potential customer is forced to read at least the headline of your letter. Unlike TV, magazines, newspaper ads, and direct mail where more than 99.99% of the recipients will skip right over your advertisement. TURNS YOUR COMPUTER INTO A CASH REGISTER: Conservative estimates indicate well over 100 MILLION people will have E-mail accounts in the next year! 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For more information on M K I I go to: http://quote.yahoo.com ... From stuffed at stuffed.net Mon Oct 26 01:57:33 1998 From: stuffed at stuffed.net (STUFFED MON OCT 26) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 01:57:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY! Message-ID: <19981026081000.29815.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com> + 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS + 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES + THE FINEST SEX ON THE NET + HEAVY HANGERS + RAM AWAY + HIGH RENT + TALENT SEARCH + FREE XXX SMUT + KANDY'S LAND + MADAME XXX + RAW SEX STORIES + DIGITAL FANTASY + BONUS PIC 1 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/29871.htm + BONUS PIC 2 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/9615.htm + BONUS PIC 3 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/14096.htm + BONUS PIC 4 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/10271.htm + BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/10892.htm + MUCH, MUCH MORE! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- If you haven't visited STUFFED in the last few days, you're in for a real treat. It's faster than ever before and now, as a subscriber, you get 35 FREE new pics every day, plus over 100 more at carefully selected FREE sites we link to. This email is never sent unsolicited. Stuffed is the supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full instructions on unsubscribing are in every issue of Eureka! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- From vin at shore.net Sun Oct 25 14:36:46 1998 From: vin at shore.net (Vin McLellan) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 06:36:46 +0800 Subject: Irony In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tim May observered: >In German we have this concept called "schadenfreude," which basically >means "delight at the misfortune of others." > >Or, more Calvinistically, delight that the chickens have come home to >roost, that evolution is indeed working, and that people are getting what >they earned. Ja, schadenfreude (a true gem of a word) is a appropriate response to any geldverlegenheit which might bedevil some dummkopf who sneers at a good-hearted effort to jump a language barrier. ----- Vin McLellan + The Privacy Guild + 53 Nichols St., Chelsea, MA 02150 USA <617> 884-5548 -- <@><@> -- From jya at pipeline.com Sun Oct 25 14:39:12 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 06:39:12 +0800 Subject: so, what did Toto *do*, exactly to get locked up? (Re: rules of en (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810251403.IAA18873@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199810251534.KAA17224@dewdrop2.mindspring.com> Maybe the Feds have more on CJ than what's in Jeff Gordon's complaint and it was provided to the Grand Jury for the indictment, but maybe not. The alleged threat to murder federal officials surely ricochets noisily in governmental brainpans. It's probable that law enforcement and judicial circles have a secret treasure of confidential warnings, alerts and operations about gland-thrilling potential threats -- of which the DoJ study cited here is only one peek into Pandora's twat, wet just so to enthrall the high benchers and avid affidavites. Domestic terrorism looms large in boosting security budgets and for rouging the mundane, boring justice system grinding ever so drearily, getting so little appreciation what with the luridities of the Billy-Kenny crotch graball, and the newsy African bombings and cruise attacks -- what's a Public Servant got to do to get what's due for self-sacrifice. Why finger an assassin, thank you god for Jim and CJ, for bottomless cypherpunks conspiracy afermenting. For example, I spoke to the Estevan police about CJ's arrest warrant and was told that it was for a non-extraditable offense. So there's not much pressure coming from Canada despite Jeff's citing that background in his complaint. I asked for docs to flesh out Jeff's complaint but couldn't get any. Then we know that the Secret Service interviewed CJ but took no action on his alleged threats against DC pols (and maybe against others -- there's another aspect of CJ threats that a cpunk might want to amplify). And there's no evidence so far of FBI involvement in CJ's case, which as noted here is somewhat hard to understand where there's a threat of murdering federal officials. Why the IRS is the principal investigative office for what is no longer merely an IRS matter is not yet answerable based on what's public. It could be that a broader investigation is underway and Jeff's is a cover. Let us pray for that, that thanks to Jim Bell and CJ we'll all be hyperlinked to International Terrorism, the surefire stage for rep building, raking dollars, the spunk of cpunk. Wasn't that the characteristics of the American Dream in the DoJ list of assassin traits? Particularly, the lust to be cop-killed, or to forfeit property fast, whichever. From nobody at replay.com Sun Oct 25 14:39:12 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 06:39:12 +0800 Subject: Encrypted FS for Linux Message-ID: <199810252035.VAA26818@replay.com> I know this was discussed recently, but I don't recall seeing the answer. Are there any recent cryptographic filesystem patches for Linux (preferably later 2.1 kernels) which implement at LEAST CAST-128 and IDEA? From rah at shipwright.com Sun Oct 25 14:39:42 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 06:39:42 +0800 Subject: Y2K is coming, and boy, is it pissed? Message-ID: ;-) Cheers, Bob Hettinga --- begin forwarded text Delivered-To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com X-Sender: believer at telepath.com Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 07:20:06 -0600 To: believer at telepath.com From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: 25% of Christians Expect Christ's Return in Their Lifetimes Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Precedence: list Reply-To: believer at telepath.com Source: NandoNet http://www.nando.net/newsroom/ntn/nation/102498/nation1_27950_noframes.html Third Millennium's approach raises end-time hopes, fears Copyright � 1998 The Associated Press WASHINGTON (October 24, 1998 08:50 a.m. EDT http://www.nandotimes.com) -- Jesus Christ is about to return, and the 1,500 folks packed into the Sheraton Washington ballroom couldn't be happier. For 16 hours a day, the End-Time Handmaidens pray and sway, singing of the day they will "dance on streets that are golden." Around them, middle-aged women clad in white and gold robes glide through the aisles while other believers blow into rams' horns, their shrieks announcing the Second Coming. The end is near. The end-timers are here. "We're running out of time. We're running out of time," Sister Gwen Shaw, the group's septuagenarian matriarch, says at the Handmaidens' annual convention in 1997. "This is God's last call." While these Handmaidens may be on America's evangelical fringe, their beliefs about the millennium and Christ's Second Coming are remarkably mainstream. According to a 1997 Associated Press poll, nearly one out of every four Christian adults -- an estimated 26.5 million people -- expect Jesus to arrive in their lifetimes. Nearly as many -- an estimated 21.1 million Americans -- are so sure of it that they feel an urgent need to convert friends and neighbors. The results are consistent with other surveys that have found a widespread belief in the Second Coming. But the AP poll, conducted last spring by ICR of Media, Pa., probes how Christians are acting on their beliefs. The most fervent end-timers gather at prophecy conventions such as this one in Washington, but their dreams and fears reverberate throughout the country. America may have already entered what one apocalyptic scholar calls the "hot zone" of end-time speculation: The year 2000 is far enough away to be plausible as Christ's Second Coming, yet close enough to spark intense proselytizing. "I look at prophecy as a Polaroid picture that takes five minutes to develop," says Zola Levitt, a Dallas evangelist on The Family Channel. "I'd say we're at four minutes, 55 seconds." At the end-timers' convention, believers pay hundreds of dollars for Jewish liturgical instruments fashioned from rams' horns -- for the chance to play their own small part in announcing the Second Coming. In unpracticed hands, these shofars sound like a third-grade orchestra warming up. Others, both in and out of the mainstream, are also blowing horns of warning. There are best-sellers such as Pat Robertson's "The End of the Age." Scores of broadcasters, from Jack Van Impe to Hal Lindsey, have preached of the end times. And the Internet offers more than 100 popular millennial sites, including This Week in Bible Prophecy and End Times Links. For evangelical Christians, the Second Coming is what's new about the new millennium. According to the AP poll, almost 40 percent of Christians expect Jesus to arrive in the 21st century, if not sooner. They are looking past Jesus' own admonition that "no one knows the hour." By their reckoning of Biblical clues, the time is soon. Belief in Jesus' return has underpinned Christianity from its earliest days. Each week, Christians throughout the world recite the Apostle's Creed, invoking Jesus who "will come again to judge the living and the dead." Each day, many begin The Lord's Prayer, passed down by Jesus, with "Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom come...." But what makes today's prayers so earnest? What separates this generation of end-time prophets from those of the last two millennia? Israel. The New Testament compares the kingdom of God, near at hand, to the growth of a fig tree. Some believers substitute Israel for the tree. They say the Second Coming is near at hand when the tree shoots forth branches -- when Israel becomes a nation. And that happened in 1948. "Verily I say unto you, 'This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled,"' Jesus says in Luke 21:32. Since many end-time prophets also place the apocalyptic Armageddon in Israel, developments there continue to stir interest. In 1967, when Israel reclaimed much of Jerusalem from Jordan, the prophecy in Luke was only strengthened. During the 1991 war between the United States and Iraq, many evangelists -- from Billy Graham to John Walvoord, chancellor of the Dallas Theological Seminary -- envisioned the beginning of the end. And when the 1993 Mideast peace pact was signed, radio evangelist Monte Judah of Norman, Okla., identified the beginning of seven years' tribulation heralding the Second Coming. For evangelicals, signs of the end can be found anywhere, anytime. Worldwide disasters -- floods, wars, earthquakes -- are what Jesus, in the Gospel of Matthew, told followers to look for. The Hale-Bopp comet, famine in Africa, developments in the European Common Market, even the convergence of full moons and Jewish religious festivals -- all are sifted for clues of the apocalypse. "There's a lot happening in our time that would give most people a concern and an excitement that the Lord is going to return," Thomas A. McMahon says. He is executive director of the Berean Call, a religious newsletter out of Bend, Ore., that circulates to 80,000 Christians. "Every day has significance. Every political, social, economic event has significance," says Phillip Lucas, general editor of Nova Religio: The Journal of Alternative and Emergent Religions. "Your whole experience of time is greatly heightened." If the time is near, why not sometime around the year 2000? For end-timers who cite a divine plan, great things tend to happen in 2,000-year periods. Abraham and Isaac, patriarchs who established a covenant between God and humans, were born around 2000 B.C. Two millennia later, Christians believe, God became man with the birth of Jesus. Those who believe human history is 6,000 years old wait with special expectancy. Consider the mathematics in Peter's Second Letter: "One day with the Lord is as a thousand years." For these believers, the new millennium starts on the seventh day of creation. For them, after 6,000 years of strife and turmoil, it's time for 1,000 years of heavenly rest as Jesus rules over the Kingdom of God on Earth. "A lot of people think maybe the year 2000," says Leon Bates, head of the Bible Believers' Evangelistic Association in Sherman, Texas. "I would go along with the thought that it would be just like the Lord to have an overall 7,000-year plan." Oleeta Herrmann believes the end could come any time. She traveled to the end-timers' convention from Xenia, Ohio, where three 25-foot crosses in her back yard warn neighbors to get right with God. Like others at the convention, she has heard the rustle of angels preparing the way of the Lord. One night, she says, Jesus appeared in her bedroom to reassure her that nieces and nephews would not be left behind when she is lifted into the clouds to join others in her family who have died. "You're bringing the rest of them with you," were the Lord's words, she says. Willie Mae Johnson, at the convention from Lighthouse Free Methodist Church in St. Louis, has no such assurances. What will happen to her father, her children and other relatives who have not accepted Christ? She is beginning to waver as 2000 approaches. "I don't want to leave anyone behind, so you say yeah, and you say no," she says. "I want Jesus to come back right now, but just wait a little while, Jesus." Even vendors at the end-timers' convention raise provocative questions, selling T-shirts that feature three frogs plopped on a lily pad and asking: "Where are you goin' when you croak?" Many people are not going to make it through the tribulation. "He has given us ... a burden for lost souls," says the Rev. Dorothy Mottern, accompanied to the convention by church members from Fredericksburg, Va. For those who read Revelation as a literal forecast, the future is frightening for people without God's seal on their foreheads. In that Book, a third of the Earth burns, and angels kill a third of those who survive. For others, torture is so severe that "people will seek death, but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will flee from them." Warnings like these can change lifestyles. In the AP poll, 98 percent of those who believe Jesus will return in their lifetimes say they urgently need to get right with God. About 21.1 million Americans, the poll estimates, have decided to get others right, too, wanting to convert friends, neighbors and relatives. Among age groups, the urgency is felt most widely among Baby Boomers. By region, it is most prevalent in the South. This urgency has created sweeping evangelistic campaigns. Celebrate Jesus 2000, a coalition of evangelical churches and ministries, wants to reach the "entire nation for Christ" by the third millennium. In an unprecedented action, the 15 million-member Southern Baptist Convention, the nation's largest Protestant denomination, in 1996 vowed to make special efforts to evangelize the Jews. Of course, the end of the world has been predicted many times before. But dates for the Second Coming have come and gone. In the 1840s, followers of William Miller quit jobs, sold belongings and moved to upstate New York to await the return of Jesus. He didn't come. Two successful churches arose from the Millerite Movement: The Seventh-day Adventists and the Jehovah's Witnesses. Both continue to anticipate the end-times but no longer specify the date. Charles Taze Russell, founder of the modern-day Witnesses, predicted that the millennial age would begin in 1914. World War I raised hopes he was right, but the movement's catchword -- "Millions now living will never die" -- gradually lost its urgency. Two years ago, the Witnesses officially dismissed date-setting as speculation, declaring Jesus was right that "no one knows the place and the time." The Worldwide Church of God also no longer sets dates for the end-times, partly because founder Herbert W. Armstrong was so often wrong. Hal Lindsey's "Late Great Planet Earth" raised end-time fears in the 1970s. Now he has a new best seller, "Planet Earth - 2000 A.D." So what will happen this time, if life goes on? Some worry that fringe end-times movements may act in increasingly desperate ways. They point to the mass suicides of the Heaven's Gate and Branch Davidian communities, whose charismatic leaders believed they had special word from God about end-times. However, most experts on evangelical Christianity think believers will accept delays -- and perhaps even be a bit relieved. In the AP poll, only 61 percent of Christian respondents who believe Jesus will arrive in their lifetime are praying for his quick return. Walvoord, of the Dallas Theological Seminary, says it reminds him of a Sunday school teacher who asked the class who wants to go to heaven. When only one boy failed to raise his hand, the teacher asked: "Don't you want to go?" "Yeah," the boy replied, "but I thought you were getting a load to go right now." By DAVID BRIGGS, AP Religion Writer ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From evan.cordes at UMICH.EDU Sun Oct 25 14:39:53 1998 From: evan.cordes at UMICH.EDU (evan.cordes at UMICH.EDU) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 06:39:53 +0800 Subject: what's related to what's related Message-ID: <199810251516.KAA18477@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu> From: "Bernard A. Galler" Subject: Fwd: IP: Netscape's XML App -- or what is really What's Related Newsgroups: umich.interesting.people Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 08:52:32 -0500 >Delivered-To: ip-sub-1 at majordomo.pobox.com >X-Sender: dfarber at mail.earthlink.net >Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 16:44:28 -0400 >To: ip-sub-1 at majordomo.pobox.com >From: Dave Farber >Subject: IP: Netscape's XML App -- or what is really What's Related >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Sender: owner-ip-sub-1 at majordomo.pobox.com >Precedence: list >Reply-To: farber at cis.upenn.edu >Status: > >Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 15:23:37 GMT >From: dwiner at well.com (DaveNet email) >Subject: Netscape's XML App > >------------------------------------- >>From Scripting News... It's DaveNet! >Released on 10/24/98; 8:23:30 AM PST >------------------------------------- > > Yesterday I got an email from Jeff Veen at Wired pointing me to the > server that Netscape is running its What's Related? application on. > This server is part of the project they did with Alexa Internet, and > it's the back-end for the What's Related? feature in Netscape 4.5. > > I had a little time to kill, was looking for a diversion, so I sent a > message to Netscape's server via script and I was blown away. It's > XML! Yes it is. And why, oh why, didn't they tell anyone? (Or did I miss > something?) > > Anyway, I wrote an app that talks to their server. It interfaces thru > an HTML form. You enter the URL of a site, and I find out what's related, > with a twist. The URL to the related site links back to the form, and I do > a lookup on *that* site, allowing you to interactively walk their > tree of relationships. > > This is just a demonstration. I want to be sure that people interested > in building XML apps have a way to experience the XMLness of what > Netscape has done, which is very interesting, for sure. > > Here's the link to my app: > > > > Hope you like it! > > ***Absence makes the heart do what? > > Oh baby, so sorry to be gone for so long. > > Sometimes the most important thing is being heard. > > And sometimes it's most important to say nothing. > > For the last four weeks I haven't had much to say. I've been busy and > quiet and more productive than I can remember ever being. What am I > doing? Building cool servers and editors, of course! > > Stay tuned... > > Dave Winer > >------------------------------------------- >Scripting News: > Bernard A. Galler E-mail: galler at umich.edu Fax: 734-668-9998 From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Sun Oct 25 14:40:43 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 06:40:43 +0800 Subject: so, what did Toto *do*, exactly to get locked up? (Re: rules of en (fwd) Message-ID: <199810251403.IAA18873@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 12:00:01 +0100 (CET) > From: DOOM Anonymous Untraceable User > Subject: Re: so, what did Toto *do*, exactly to get locked up? (Re: rules of en > > This does raise an interesting point about freedom of speech and the duties > > of LEA's. In a democratic society what are the ethical implications of LEA's > > archiving publicly available documents as a matter of course, not for > > inclusion in ongoing investigations but rather as a base for future > > investigations. > > Echelon. Also see [*1 below] No, you silly boy. Too simple an answer and not really relevant to the question I asked; I doubt the IRS is greatly interested in Echelon. Besides, I was pondering *ethical issues* not the reality of the world. > remailers are carriers. ECPA says that if you do not review content, you aren't > responsible for it. Does it really cover archives? Why are archivers carriers? They are certainly doing more than simply transfering data from here to there. They're making sure you can do it whenever. Further, there is a nagging implication of 'real-time' in that review stipulation. > Archivers are content providers. They have to make do with a 1st ammendment > fig leaf. So to be qualified the content must be publicly accessible? Or is private access ok as well? Is 'content provider' the same as 'content carrier'? > [hey, Jim really is protected. He's not even allowed to read CDR mail.] What a silly interpretation. I am subscribed just like anyone else, of course I can read the traffic. Near as I can tell I just can't read it *before* everyone else gets to read it (ie on the outbound leg of its journey through SSZ). > [preamble] Want to clarify that comment? (it's a joke) > ECPA) were paramount in the suit. The plaintiffs claimed the > Secret Service violated two provisions -- one prohibiting > unjustified "disclosure and use" of e-mail (18 U.S.C. 2703; the This aspect clearly isn't going to apply to a publicly accessible mailing list since it's going to be very near impossible to argue for any right to privacy since a submitter *wants* others to see their traffic and there is the implied intent to distribute without restriction (at least on the cpunks). > other prohibiting "interception" of e-mail (18 U.S.C. 22511(1)). This would prevent me or anyone else, at least on the surface of it, from getting at the content *prior* to the distribution phase. > [*1 Interesting. Maybe they have Toto for something intercepted illegally > and they're trying to find it from another source (by subpoena).] I suspect they have Toto for something in meatspace and not specificaly for something on this mailing list. Near as I can figure they're trolling the list to get ancillary evidence of intent and potentialy evidence of accomplices. > [re: public domain software on ftp archives] > > It matters not, IMHO, since an ftp archive site qualifies as a library > open to the public. Which means what? At this point the contents of such a site are clearly intended for review without constraint on the end use, at least I've never had a public library employee or ftp operator ask me what I'm wanting the info for. Or is the implication that such a site would be protected from monitoring prior to the files being placed in the archive? ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody at replay.com Sun Oct 25 14:40:46 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 06:40:46 +0800 Subject: Feds Seize Houses for Illegal Downloading Message-ID: <199810252135.WAA31125@replay.com> At 01:08 AM 10/25/98 -0000, Secret Squirrel wrote: >What are they going to do, launch a cruise missile strike on the server and >send the shock troops in to put all anonymous remailers out of business? You don't think Anguilla is due for a Tomahawk sometime in the future? From nobody at privacy.nb.ca Sun Oct 25 14:52:19 1998 From: nobody at privacy.nb.ca (Joseph 'Anonymous' Howe) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 06:52:19 +0800 Subject: so, what did Toto *do*,...... Message-ID: <199810251155.HAA11099@privacy.nb.ca> Reeza! wrote: > > >all seen posted here. Personally, I found them a lot milder than Reeza!'s > >projection of his suicide fantasies, for instance. > > Huh? Well Goodness Fuck, Does this mean I am notorious as well? In a post primarily about your feelings about Klinton, you outlined a detailed suicide fantasy ("meet your maker") and suggested other people might like to eat a bullet too. That's closer to presidential assasination than Toto ever got. From rah at shipwright.com Sun Oct 25 14:57:37 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 06:57:37 +0800 Subject: It finally happened... In-Reply-To: <199810251710.SAA07906@replay.com> Message-ID: At 12:10 PM -0500 on 10/25/98, Anonymous wrote: > Software mentioned the name of one of them advising on how to > do this, though it's not clear that Smith knew who he was > inadverdently passing over while he was avidly trying to catch > mechanical rabbits sent out to run the inbred speedsters > ragged chasing easy prey, not knowing, not caring, they're on a > track, just displaying they're trained to hang in there in sniffing > range of the bunny's ass: Brown, Foster, Podesta, Hillary, Bill. Holy shit. Somebody's built JYA rant-maker... Will wonders ever cease? ;-). Cheers, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From nobody at replay.com Sun Oct 25 15:01:54 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 07:01:54 +0800 Subject: the ANON delivery Message-ID: <199810250535.GAA25546@replay.com> anon sent something via MeatSpace Mail a few months back. any relevence to current circumstances should be ignored, eh MongerMonger From mix at anon.lcs.mit.edu Sun Oct 25 15:02:26 1998 From: mix at anon.lcs.mit.edu (lcs Mixmaster Remailer) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 07:02:26 +0800 Subject: AOL lameness Message-ID: <19981025054001.11668.qmail@nym.alias.net> Now _this_ is illustrative... Husband: "Hi. I'm having a problem connecting to the Internet." Tech Support: "Ok sir, what operating system are you using?" Husband: "Oh...I'm really not sure...I'm not the computer expert. My wife is. She's sitting at the computer. I'm going to dictate this to her." (pause) "She says we use Windows 95." Tech Support: "Ok. What exactly is the problem?" Husband: "I can't connect." Wife: (in the background) "We can't even get on -- the software is buggy!" Tech Support: "Ok, what happens when you try to connect?" Husband: "Ok, the Connect To: screen pops up, and it asks for my password." Tech Support: "Did you put your password in?" Husband: "Yes, and it keeps asking for it afterwards." Tech Support: "Do you have your caps lock key on?" Husband: "Yes, but that shouldn't make any difference." Tech Support: "Uhm...go ahead and hit the caps lock key until the light goes away." Husband: "Are you sure? We've always got on with the caps lock key on." Tech Support: "Yes, I'm sure." Husband: "Oh, ok. It took my password." Wife: (in the background) "I told you!" (They start arguing. She takes the phone from him.) "HELLO?" Tech Support: "Yes, hello, you should be all set from here." Wife: "YES HI, I'VE BEEN USING YOUR DAMN SOFTWARE FOR I DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW LONG, AND I STILL CAN'T GET EMAIL FROM MY SON IN THE NAVY!" Tech Support: "What program do you use for email, ma'am?" Wife: "I use Windows 95! We already told you that!" Husband: (in the background) "We already told her that, didn't we?" Tech Support: "No, what mail application...such as Eudora, Netscape, Internet Explorer..." Wife: "Microsoft Netscape." Tech Support: "Netscape?" Wife: "Yes, Microsoft Netscape." Tech Support: "Ok, open that up and go to Options, and then Mail and News Preferences--" Wife: "No, I want email! I don't want to surf the net!" Tech Support: "Netscape comes with an email program, and we're going to set it up now." Wife: "Ugh. Fine. Whatever. We'll do it YOUR way." Tech Support: "Ok." (explains how to set up popmail) Wife: "I'm not getting mail." Tech Support: "Do you have two phone lines?" Suddenly I hear the modem attempting to dial in. Tech Support: (over the roar of the modem) "MA'AM? YOU ONLY HAVE ONE PHONE LINE. DON'T TRY TO DIAL IN." (beep click click) Tech Support: "You can't dial up with this line. It's already in use." Wife: "I was always able to use it before YOU changed my settings!" Tech Support: "No, you will just have to disconn--" Wife: "You tech support people always mess up my settings, and then I have to bring my computer back to [retailer] to get it fixed! You know, you cost me so much money!" Tech Support: "Ma'am, I didn't change any of your Internet settings." Wife: "Yes you did, we just went through a NUMBER of things." Tech Support: "All we did was--" Wife: "I've had ENOUGH of your service. I'm going back to AOL." (click) >From From guy at panix.com Sun Oct 25 15:02:51 1998 From: guy at panix.com (Information Security) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 07:02:51 +0800 Subject: Regarding Mitnick: not. Message-ID: <199810250511.BAA00406@panix7.panix.com> ZDnet just sent out a newsletter promoting a series of stories, including this one: # IS YOUR KID A HACKER? # Is your teen hacking the Pentagon instead of doing homework? # How to tell -- and how to handle it. Convicted hacker Kevin # Mitnick gives his views. # # http://chkpt.zdnet.com/chkpt/zdnu98102501/www.zdnet.com/familypc/content/9810/columns/parental.html No mention of Mitnick. They apparently meant to name the article author 'Kevin Poulsen'. # It happened to my family 15 years ago, in one of the first hacker raids in the # country. At that time, I was the teenage miscreant who was illegally accessing # federal computers. Now, in my early thirties, I've begun to wonder how I would # protect a kid of my own from becoming a poster child for computer crime. I believe # the best approach is to stay informed and to communicate with your potential # cyberpunks. That reminds me. For those who haven't seen it, there is a commercial showing a little girl (about 8?) walking into an airport, dizzied by all the destination choices. The narrative turns to ~"and the Internet too has many destinations, not all of which she is ready for. Travel together..." All things considered, better than the Federales approach. ---guy When your only tool is a hammer...all brains look like Gallagher's watermelons. From nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl Sun Oct 25 15:07:09 1998 From: nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl (HyperReal-Anon) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 07:07:09 +0800 Subject: Your New Online Dumbshit Number Message-ID: <15cdde2bad7d205b156cd7ae06e3e594@anonymous> registration information. > >Please remember your Customer ID and PIN for the next time you login as an >Adobe Customer on www.adobe.com. Thank you for spamming the Cypherpunks List. Your new Online Dumbshit ID is: 3313105220636428 The PIN you entered and confirmed has been encrypted using GAKed crypto and stored with your registration information, the names of your children, your address, and nude pictures of your spouse. Please remember your Dumbshit ID and PIN for the next time you spam as an Adobe Spokesperson from adobe.com. From vznuri at netcom.com Sun Oct 25 15:08:18 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 07:08:18 +0800 Subject: IP: FCC Proposes Rules for Cellular Wiretaps Message-ID: <199810250534.WAA18000@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: FCC Proposes Rules for Cellular Wiretaps Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 07:57:54 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com Source: Washington Post http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/washtech/fcc1023.htm FCC Proposes Rules for Cellular Wiretaps By Roberto Suro Washington Post Staff Writer Friday, October 23, 1998; Page A16 Law enforcement agencies armed with court-authorized surveillance orders would be able to determine the location of a mobile telephone caller under rules proposed by the Federal Communications Commission yesterday. The FCC proposals, which are still subject to a comment and review process, would also require wireless telephone carriers to ensure that police could tap into conference calls and collect information on the use of services such as call-waiting and call-forwarding on cellular phones. Determining how wiretapping will be adapted to the age of wireless telecommunications has been the subject of a long-running dispute between the telephone industry, privacy groups and the Justice Department and the FBI, which have represented law enforcement agencies nationwide. In 1994 Congress enacted the Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act, which mandated that law enforcement get the capabilities it needed to monitor wireless communications without imposing unreasonable costs on industry or undue invasions of privacy. The law did not, however, spell out how this should be accomplished. The FCC proposals approved yesterday mark the first time that a neutral referee has defined what exactly is required by the 1994 law and has thus defined the final stage of the debate. "The FCC indicated its determination to ensure that, in the face of rapid technological change, law enforcement maintains its ability to use court-authorized wiretaps to combat the most serious crime, and at the same time the FCC recognized the important privacy interests at stake," said Jonathan Schwartz, an associate deputy attorney general. The Center for Democracy and Technology, which has led the fight for privacy groups, issued a statement charging that the FCC had "proposed turning wireless phones into location tracking devices and requiring telephone companies to build additional surveillance features into their telephone networks, largely rejecting privacy arguments that the government already has too much surveillance powers." The Justice Department and the FBI asked the FCC to intervene in April after failing to convince industry and privacy groups to accept a list of nine technical provisions considered essential to meet law enforcement's needs. The FCC's proposed rules accepted the law enforcement position on five points. These include access to detailed information on conference calls, such as knowing when a party has gone on hold or has dropped from the call. In addition, the FCC acceded to law enforcement's request for access to digits dialed by a caller after the call has been connected, such as the numbers punched to get access to a bank account or voice mail. The FCC rejected law enforcement demands on three points, including a requirement that carriers send a signal to verify that a wiretap is functioning properly, and declined to rule on a proposal that the carrier send a signal whenever a caller received a network message, such as an incoming ring that did not result in a completed call. The proposal acknowledged the telecommunications industry's complaint that the FBI was demanding capacities "that go beyond the scope of what Congress had intended," said Thomas E. Wheeler, president of the Cellular Telecommunications Industry Association. The FCC rejected a petition from the Center for Democracy and Technology asking it to prevent law enforcement from gaining location information from wiretaps on cellular phones. The proposed rule would oblige carriers to provide any information they have on the location of a phone at the beginning and termination of a call. "This does not turn wireless phones into tracking devices," FCC Chairman William E. Kennard said in a statement. "Law enforcement can only secure this information if a court authorizes it. This capability will help law enforcement make our streets safe." � Copyright The Washington Post Company ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From nobody at replay.com Sun Oct 25 15:15:18 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 07:15:18 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199810251710.SAA07906@replay.com> Sure bet the "EOP" was jerking Softwar's chain, observing one or two levels deeper what he reports he was getting from his ISP. Such reconnaissance by fire is customary practice, according to multi-level logs of the snoopers prowling the finer-grained log levels down to what semi-skilled ISPs are able to keep track of, report on, and fend the prying devils/customers off with. Watch out, though, for the deepwatchers of the recon teams sent out as freshmeat from compsec training bases of the infrastructure protection farms, some working for, running ISPs. Some of the recon by fire teams are bait the CI meanies use to snare those working both sides, you know, the venerated old salts "who set up Arpanet" and their hotshot inheritors at the best universities and tanks in the country convinced they know what's best for the churchgoers of techno future. Software mentioned the name of one of them advising on how to do this, though it's not clear that Smith knew who he was inadverdently passing over while he was avidly trying to catch mechanical rabbits sent out to run the inbred speedsters ragged chasing easy prey, not knowing, not caring, they're on a track, just displaying they're trained to hang in there in sniffing range of the bunny's ass: Brown, Foster, Podesta, Hillary, Bill. EOP is not only what it's reported to be. Nor is any address that's readily traceable. Onion layered they are, more than NRL knows. Bet Anonymizer is not only what it's reported to be, that is, the semi-sharp operators don't know what it's being used to onion. Are remailers, recon by fire. Like this? Is strong encryption the answer? Right, peddle that. From rah at shipwright.com Sun Oct 25 15:19:02 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 07:19:02 +0800 Subject: IP: WHITE HOUSE HITS SOFTWAR WEB SITE! Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Delivered-To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 21:02:07 -0400 (EDT) To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com From: softwar at us.net (CharlesSmith) Subject: IP: WHITE HOUSE HITS SOFTWAR WEB SITE! Sender: owner-ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Precedence: list Reply-To: softwar at us.net (CharlesSmith) >From the 10/23/98 WWW hit report from www.us.net/softwar website % bytes files name 2.11 1.28 62230 20 | gov.eop.gatekeeper 198.137.241.100 GOV.EOP = EXECUTIVE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT Once again, the White House has visited the Softwar web site. Last night the White House downloaded 20 files for a total of about 62K worth of data. The White House seems to be interested in the SOFTWAR documents covering the CSPP or Computer Systems Policy Project and John Podesta. One document of interest to White House fans of SOFTWAR is the memo written by BXA head Bill Reinsch to Ron Brown, dated June 1, 1995, which arranged a secret meeting between the White House and the CSPP on June 6, 1995. The CSPP has admitted in writing that they attended several CLASSIFIED briefings at the invitation of the Clinton White House on super computer exports and encryption technology. Another curious White House download included data on SOFTWAR's new ciphering products such as our encrypted emailer and encrypted web browser. I extend a hearty digital welcome to President Clinton from the INTERNET. Mr. Podesta requested in the spring of 1998 that I send him written questions. Mr. Podesta has not answered these questions and now refuses to be interviewed. Again, I challenge the President, or anyone in the Administration, to answer the questions submitted as per Mr. John Podesta's request. I have attached the questions that HAVE NEVER BEEN ANSWERED below. My website provider - us.net - gives a listing of "hits" on my website. Most WWW providers can give you this information. Here is tip number six from my ART of INFO WARFARE postings. Tip #6 - Anonymous Surfing. Please note - each time you hit a web site (www site) with your internet browser it leaves your email address and more for the web masters to play with. They usually end up sending you spam (unsolicited) email on related services and products. Avoid this by surfing anonymously. Go to http://www.anonymizer.com - This service is great when you don't want to trigger those marketing programs and junk mail. It's also good to use if you visit the NSA, CIA, or North Korean web sites. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ March 2, 1998 Mr. John Podesta The White House 202/456-1907 Attn: Sarah Latham REF. INTERVIEW FOR ARTICLE IN INSIGHT MAGAZINE (Washington Times Group) TOPIC: ENCRYPTION and COMPUTERS Dear Mr. Podesta: Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. 1. What is your current position and previous term(s) of service at the White House? 2. Are you currently working on encryption policy? 3. Can the current "Key Recovery" design as proposed by the Clinton administration be used against political opponents or dissidents by oppressive governments such as China or Iraq? 4. Do you deny that Vince Foster and Webb Hubbell were involved in encryption policy and the CLIPPER project? If so please explain their documented meeting at NSA Ft. Meade in May, of 1993? 5. I have obtained documents that describe meetings between George Tenet and Webster Hubbell in reference to project CLIPPER which took place inside the White House in 1993. Please explain Mr. Hubbell's role in CLIPPER and Mr. Hubbell's role in encryption policy. 6. What meetings have you had with the Computer Systems Policy Project (CSPP)? 7. What was the role of the Computer Systems Policy Project in Mrs. Clinton's Health Care Reform initiative? 8. What is your relationship with Ken Kay, Director of the CSPP? 9. Has the CSPP met in the White House, Old Executive Office or the Commerce Dept? If so, when and on what subjects? 10. I have documented evidence of three exports of encryption technology to China; HUA MEI, Motorola and RSA/SDI. Please describe the role of the Clinton administration in helping these exports take place. 11. Explain why meetings between the CSPP and the US Government should not come under the FACA (Federal Advisory Committee Act) laws? 12. Please explain Al Gore's role in CLIPPER and inside the Inter-Agency Working Group for encryption. 13. Please explain Ron Brown's role in CLIPPER and inside the Inter-Agency Working Group. Did Ron Brown discuss encryption with representatives of China? 14. Was the CLIPPER design or Skipjack algorithm disclosed to any foreign government or representative? 15. What kind of encryption policy did you discuss with CIA Director Deutch, George Tenet and NSA Director McConnell in late December of 1993? 16. What role did the Federal government play in the merger of Silicon Graphics and CRAY? 17. Please describe the Clinton administration's role in the "accidental" export of Silicon Graphics super-computers to a Russian nuclear weapons lab and the exports of some 46 supers to China. 18. What role did the Federal government play in dealings with Andrew Logan in 1993? Did Mr. Logan get paid to not sue the US Government over the CLIPPER design? 19. What role did the Federal government and specifically AL GORE play in the 1994 negotiations to purchase the DSA patents from Mr. Bidzos, CEO of RSA Inc.? 20. Please explain how you can serve on policy and still remain part owner of Podesta & Associates without conflict? 21. Were there or are there any plans to mandate government encryption and nationalize the industry? 22. Why would the Commerce Dept. reference the US government DSA (Digital Signature) algorithm when I requested all information on back doors or special software to monitor US domestic financial transactions? Does DSA contain some back door or other exploitable feature? 23. Explain the role of the FORTEZZA smart card as the proposed national health care card during the 1993 Health Care reform. 24. Does the White House hold closed meetings with other groups covered under the FACA rules? For example I have documents that reference closed meetings with Dr. Willis Ware of the Computer System Security and Privacy Advisory Board. 25. Explain the role of AT&T and CLIPPER? Please note I have documents which detail the 1991 and 1992 meetings between Scrowcroft and AT&T to purchase the initial batch of AT&T 3600 phones. I also have details of the substitution contract to AT&T issued in 1993 to remove the DES chips and put CLIPPER in place. 26. Explain the role of Mrs. Hillary Clinton in encryption policy and project CLIPPER. 27. Explain the relationship between the administration, Mr. Stephens of Arkansas, his company Systematics and the lawsuit over PROMIS software. Again, thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. I would like the opportunity to follow up if possible. Best of Wishes, Charles R. Smith SOFTWAR ================================================================ 1 if by land, 2 if by sea. Paul Revere - encryption 1775 Charles R. Smith SOFTWAR http://www.softwar.net softwar at softwar.net Pcyphered SIGNATURE: 53A79B0B3629F6D9F2F28DFE4000844F2FF14AA1235806369F861DA7546777BE C10793051D8CC7ED9E0F67D3DAD2B39F113F7A74B8D6A77CE8A867CCB46A99FE 22C5DCF13BD55532 ================================================================ **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From vznuri at netcom.com Sun Oct 25 15:19:43 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 07:19:43 +0800 Subject: IP: Senate Passes Forward-Looking Electronic Signatures Bill Message-ID: <199810250534.WAA18011@netcom13.netcom.com> From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Sun Oct 25 15:24:43 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 07:24:43 +0800 Subject: IP: FCC Proposes Rules for Cellular Wiretaps (fwd) Message-ID: <199810251413.IAA18936@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Subject: IP: FCC Proposes Rules for Cellular Wiretaps > Date: Sat, 24 Oct 98 22:34:48 -0700 > From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" > From: believer at telepath.com > Subject: IP: FCC Proposes Rules for Cellular Wiretaps > Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 07:57:54 -0500 > To: believer at telepath.com > The FCC proposals approved yesterday mark the first time that a neutral > referee has defined what exactly is required by the 1994 law and has thus > defined the final stage of the debate. What in the world makes this person believe that a regulatory agency such as the FCC is a neutral referee? ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rah at shipwright.com Sun Oct 25 15:27:15 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 07:27:15 +0800 Subject: IP: Internet Police on the Prowl in China Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Delivered-To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com X-Sender: believer at telepath.com Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 07:54:22 -0600 To: believer at telepath.com From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Internet Police on the Prowl in China Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Precedence: list Reply-To: believer at telepath.com Source: Washington Post http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/digest/wtech001.htm Internet Police on the Prowl in China By Michael Laris Special to The Washington Post Saturday, October 24, 1998; Page A12 BEIJING - As head of the Shanghai Police Department's Computer Security Supervision office, Qing Guang is in charge of ferreting out "harmful information" on the Internet. He has to look only as far as his own in box. Qing is an unwitting subscriber to Chinese VIP Reference, an electronic pro-democracy magazine run by Chinese students and scholars from a small office near Washington's Dupont Circle. Every 10 days, editors e-mail their magazine -- with its essays on "thought liberation," bulletins on democracy activism, and reader-inspired reports on corruption -- to more than 100,000 Internet users in China. Qing is one of them. And that makes the tough-talking Shanghai cop crazy. "For me, this kind of information is useless. When you put it in my mailbox, it's a type of spiritual pollution. All the users don't want to receive these kinds of things," Qing said in a rare interview. "If there was something you didn't need, and I sent it to you by force, could you accept that? Would you be disgusted or not?" The Internet is slowly coming of age in China, prompting a showdown between Communist Party officials who seek to maintain their media monopoly, and upstart Internet publishers relying on powerful technology and their uncensored news coverage to appeal to China's best and brightest. The number of Chinese Internet users has jumped 75 percent this year to 1.2 million, and it is expected to reach 10 million in five years. Eighty-five percent of users are under age 35, and they represent an influential elite of students, intellectuals and officials. VIP Reference reaches at least 10 percent of Chinese users and perhaps a greater percentage if reader surveys about how often it is forwarded are accurate. The Chinese government is ambivalent toward the Internet. Telecommunications officials have been investing millions of dollars to increase Internet access, and national policy supports its swift growth, but propaganda and security officials oppose its unfettered expansion. As Chinese at home and abroad have become more effective at spreading their ideas online, police and state security agents have launched a campaign to train "Internet police" and pursue those responsible for "hostile magazines." "The water that carries the boat can also tip it over. The Internet is also like this," the People's Daily, the most authoritative voice of China's Communist Party, wrote on Oct. 12. "Going online is inevitable, but tremendous economic benefit requires an assurance of safety." China's leaders are not alone in their concern. New York-based Human Rights Watch is looking into reports that governments in Malaysia, Turkey and Bahrain have persecuted their citizens for distributing political information online. "It is precisely because of the Internet's potential for increasing the civil and political participation of the disenfranchised that regulators are seeking to control it," said Jagdish Parikh, online researcher for Human Rights Watch. But China's government, which relied heavily on underground propaganda to build support for taking power in 1949, is especially sensitive about keeping its own censorship structures in place. Authorities boast that China was the first country to require Internet users to register with the government, and police are institutionalizing the monitoring of the country's networks. In Shanghai, for instance, Officer Qing has trained more than 200 employees from government work units to be the eyes and ears of the police on local networks. In three-day seminars, Qing describes the dangers of "black guests," the Chinese term for hackers, and explains Internet security. He also explains China's stringent Internet regulations, which went into effect last January. "No one is allowed to release harmful information on the Internet," Qing said. "You cannot send out harmful information which attacks our nation's territorial integrity, attacks our nation's independence, or attacks our socialist system." Qing would not say how many Internet cases are being prosecuted in China, nor how many police are surfing China's networks. But in interviews, Chinese Internet users who have had run-ins with security forces say the pressure is growing. Lin Hai, a computer entrepreneur in Shanghai, was arrested in March for allegedly providing his database of 30,000 e-mail addresses to VIP Reference. Although Lin had not been active in politics, and had openly sold and exchanged e-mail addresses as part of his online headhunting business, he has been charged with "inciting the overthrow of national power." Xu Hong, Lin's wife, said trading e-mail addresses is considered as sinister as trafficking in postage stamps, and she believes authorities are using her husband to send a message. "It's 'killing a chicken to scare the monkeys,'" she said, using an old Chinese expression. Feng Donghai, a co-founder of VIP Reference who works as a telecommunications researcher at Columbia University, said his parents and friends in China have been visited by state security agents four times in the past several months to investigate him. "I also received a lot of reader messages that they were visited by national security police because they received our magazine," Feng said. But, like Officer Qing, many have an alibi. "When police question our readers, they can claim they never subscribed," Feng said. The magazine has editors and contributors around the United States and in China, and is part news source and part network. Democracy campaigners in China have used it as a forum for discussing reform, and to locate the e-mail addresses and phone numbers of fellow travelers. VIP sends copies of its magazine not only to police officers but also to Chinese lawmakers and government officials, as well as thousands of citizens. VIP also e-mails a smaller-circulation daily update on dissident activities. Readers e-mail the magazine 500 times each day. About 30 of those are requests to be removed from the mailing list, but many others write to talk politics. The Chinese government has set up e-mail filters to block distribution, but editors send the magazine from different addresses each time and have an elaborate system within China to ensure the messages reach their destination. Feng said he gets several dozen e-mail threats a day and has also been hit by e-mail "bombings," which fill up his in box with large files. Several of VIP's other key editors are trying to keep their identities secret to escape similar trouble and to avoid being blacklisted. The chief editor of "Public Opinion," an electronic journal edited in China that focuses on government abuses of power, said he went into hiding after police investigated his company. "I was scared. Many people like me, who say things they shouldn't, have been struck," said the editor, who gave his name as Li Yongming in an e-mail interview from an undisclosed location in southern China. But Li has continued working on the magazine. "I will not let others cover my mouth," he said. � Copyright 1998 The Washington Post Company ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Sun Oct 25 15:28:07 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 07:28:07 +0800 Subject: e-cash, banks, systemic risk, and financial safety in the Metro Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 16:07:04 -0400 (AST) From: Ian Grigg To: dbs at philodox.com Subject: e-cash, banks, systemic risk, and financial safety in the Metro Cc: daveb at hyperion.com, djackson at jackson-trading.com Reply-To: iang at systemics.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Subscribe: X-Web-Archive: http://www.philodox.com/dbs-archive/ I've been a faithful believer in the past that banks are not the right organisations to get involved with electronic cash. To some extent, this has been merely a learning exercise in order to determine the shape and composition of the ideal organisation that should be involved; starting off by rejecting the status quo is always educational. When building electronic cash systems, it is an obvious question to ask, and if not, your customers soon do so for you. Over time, another face has arisen, that of defending society from threat of the new world being monopolised by the dinosaurs of yesteryear. In short, the need to keep banks out of electronic cash. At the end of this rant, I have attached a post from Dave Birch of Hyperion, in which he presents some evidence of how banks are failing in the smart card area. This I find personally amusing, as I argued in my paper on the EMI's 1994 Opinion that smart cards were something that the banks could get into and sensibly monopolise. I guess that argument now looks somewhat weak. Whether banks should be involved in electronic cash is part of a wider question as to whether they should be involved in payment systems. Such a question is not really discussed; It is fairly to clear to me after several years of central bank watching that much of the regulators' thinking in these areas is muddied due to their lack of appreciation of the key distinction between banking and payment systems. In private and sometimes in public, the more enlightened of the insiders tend to agree that such a distinction doesn't really make sense to most central bankers. In such a void of discussion, it is insufficient to simply state that the business of payment systems is not the business of banking, as I have been doing for the last few years. Making such a statement does gives rise to the conclusion that as different businesses, payment systems and banking should at least be separately regulated. From any sensible business principles, unless there is a compelling reason to combine them, one separates them (and it should said that the marketing benefits of securing additional customer ownership for banks are not really compelling enough to argue for public intervention). Such an argument is consistent and valuable, but has not really made the grade as far as convincing the world to change. We need more. We need to collect more information on why payment systems need to be decoupled from banking. One argument that has arisen, which I have been recently made aware of through discussions with Douglas Jackson, is that the combination of payment systems and banking raises the risk of systemic failure in the economy. The logic runs like this. Banks, being the places where the money is kept, are subject to attachments by goverments; one of the bugbears of Free Banking is that it is not stable in the long run, being unable to survive a long-term attack by a regulator that seeks to attach the funds managed. Now, leaving aside from our natural distaste of theft with coercion, we need to identify how this makes the system weaker. When a regulator coerces a loan out of a bank, such as occurs regularly in periods of systemic turmoil (LTCM, the Asian crisis, S&L, need we go on?), then the bank that extends these funds will be made weaker. That is, it has somehow been lumbered with a non-performing asset, which weakens its balance sheet. To see how this must be the case, consider what would happen if the loan made was in fact a performing one. Trivially, any bank would take on a performing loan without the advice of any regulator, as this can only be good business. Therefore, any business that the regulator gets involved in must be non-performing, and therefore must involve coercion (or perhaps some other subsidy, but that is not considered here). Now, this pushes the bank in the direction of failure. If the bank fails, we now have two problems, being the original failure that caused the coerced loan and the second failure of the coercee. It takes no learned education to see that this process is starting to look like an epidemic. If the bank does not fail, then all is apparently well and good. Regulators might argue that their coercion and the consequent dead loss to the bank's balance sheet did in fact pay off, in societal terms, and they simply need to be careful to only load up a bank as far as it can support the load. The problem with this is that the regulators can make no such argument. Was it Mises who said that governments have no special monopoly on good decisions, and therefore no better ability to regulate than the market itself? Sooner or later, the regulators will make a mistake, forcing their new found compliant bank into bankrupcy in order to bail out the previous disaster. Can we accept that? We might be able to, if it was some statistical thing - every now and then, our leaders make a mistake, and something breaks. Every now and then a bank fails that did not need to, but most people shed only crocodile tears over bank failures. Well, no. Unfortunately, the mere action of succeeding in repairing the situation by coercing one good bank to bail out another bad bank causes a reward scheme that self-perpetuates the activity. More simply, bad behaviour gets rewarded, and good gets punished. Where does this incentive lead to? Evidently, repeated bail-outs and bad loans across the entire banking industry, which net out to a general weakening of the industry balance sheet. This industry-wide weakening to the system of banks is not a good sign, but when it is coupled, as it causally must be in this case, with a regulator's propensity to shift bad onto good, and risk an occasional mistake in the act, then the whole system is at risk from the very people sworn to protect it. People need banking, not banks. Who said that? He might have been thinking of the above, and perhaps predicting that we would not be able to escape from a situation of regulated weakness in the banking sector. Assuming we cannot avoid the above problem, and it is historically evident that many best efforts have failed, then we must look at containment. Banks may be unsound; the economy must go on. And herein lies the nub of Jackson's argument. What better way to spread failures than through payment systems? Payment systems by their nature link banks into a system of banking. Better than that, or worse as the case may be, payment systems are generally offered to and used by many other sectors of the economy. Such a powerful invention as the payment system, or money as the economists like to call it, will be made universally available. Their power is a double-edged sword. Failure of a payment system is capable of crippling economies, toppling governments and causing widespread destruction of wealth. Russia today, Albania yesterday, and the Weimar Republic in yesteryear are powerful reminders of what happens when the payment system fails. Clearly, to then reserve payment systems to banks, which are fundamentally regulated as to be unsound, is to raise systemic risk. The hitherto unchallenged argument of the central banks, that their role is to protect the system against systemic risk, should now be presented back to them as a reason for them not reserving payment systems for banks. Independant payment systems, separated from the regulated, risky and weakened world in which banks operate, must therefore decrease systemic risk in the financial system, ceteris paribus. This argument is one that supports separation. Is there another? And to be rigourous, is there an argument that supports the combination of banking and payment systems? iang PS: follows is Dave Birch's post that catalysed this rant, although the thoughts have been permeating for many a year. Also note that this inclusion does not in any way evidence Dave's endorsement of my arguments. =======8<==========8<==========8<==========8<==========8<=== From: Dave Birch Frank Sudia said >Several large organizations have undertaken consumer purse trials in the >US, which have been miserable failures. The only consumer purse trial I can think of is the Mondex/Visa trial in New York. I saw a report on the web a couple of weeks ago (Business Week? Internesia sets in). The top three places where consumers in New York wanted to use their electronic purses were for subway tickets, taxis and payphones: not one of these was included in the trial. I bet that you can buy a fur coat in Bloomingdales with your Mondex card but not pay a parking meter. Worldwide, the situation is much therefore more interesting than your comment suggests. I might characterise it as follows... Several large organisations (banks) have undertaken consumer digital money trials which haven't been runaway successes. At retail point of sale, which is where electronic purses are being trialled, smartcards have no competitive advantage over cash whatsoever. Why do they persist? It's because banks treat electronic purses as cards (instead of computers, which is what they actually are). As a consequence, they are handled by the "card services" (or whatever) department of the bank. What is "card services" main business? Merchant acquiring. Who do "card services" talk to about electronic purses? The merchants that they already acquire credit card transactions for, rather than they guys who run parking meters, vending machines, payphones, taxi meters etc etc etc. Other large organisations (not banks) have undertaken consumer trials which have been great successes. Examples are * mass transit operators (e.g. Hong Kong mass transit does more smartcard transactions every day than Mondex and VisaCash have done in their history) where people find smartcards far more convenient than tickets or coins. London Transport are soon going to issue more than 7 million contactless smartcards for people to pay for subway and bus fares: how long before the newspaper vendors at the stations accept these cards as well? * campuses (in Europe and the US), where people need change for a million reasons everyday (photocopiers, payphones etc etc) and it saves the campus operators a lot of money to not have collect cash from machines. I'm just as frustrated as everyone else that electronic purses aren't catching on as quickly as I'd like. All I'd say is that purses will come (even in America), so it's best to just take it easy and wait. Regards, Dave Birch. === mailto:daveb at hyperion.co.uk ===== http://www.hyperion.co.uk/ === --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From nobody at seclab.com Sun Oct 25 15:34:55 1998 From: nobody at seclab.com (DOOM Anonymous Untraceable User) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 07:34:55 +0800 Subject: so, what did Toto *do*, exactly to get locked up? (Re: rules of en Message-ID: <199810251100.MAA21744@rogue.seclab.com> Jim Choate wrote: > > anonymous wrote > > And it's likely they have subpoenaed more people than we've heard from. > > I just hope they don't subpoena Bill Payne, or we'll receive a copy of it > > every week for years to come. > > Yep, with those silly/strange capitalizations and sentence structures of his > which look suspicously like some form of stego. You'd think somebody who > claims to be that educated would have at least learned basic grammer (unless it > was intentional). That explains it. > This does raise an interesting point about freedom of speech and the duties > of LEA's. In a democratic society what are the ethical implications of LEA's > archiving publicly available documents as a matter of course, not for > inclusion in ongoing investigations but rather as a base for future > investigations. Echelon. Also see [*1 below] > In addition, while the remailer operators do seem to be > protected by ECPA (I was advised that I fell into this category via SSZ) > what about the public archive operators? Are they covered under this > umbrella? remailers are carriers. ECPA says that if you do not review content, you aren't responsible for it. Archivers are content providers. They have to make do with a 1st ammendment fig leaf. What archives are there? There is one in Singapore (outside jurisdiction) and one at sof.mit.edu that mysteriously went off the air a little while ago. Or was it something more sinister? On the topic of ECPA, I did an archive search: (my comments in []) From: Mike Godwin Subject: Re: FIDOnet encryption (or lack thereof) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1993 11:07:09 -0400 (EDT) Bill writes: > Heh. OK. Well, if one behaves "ethically", then I guess *that* closes > the issue. It's his machine and he gets to make the rules. (this is > my personally-adhered-to point of view) My question is this: how does he know that the mail is encrypted if he's not examining the mail that passes through his system? If he *is* examining the mail that passes through his system, it seems likely that he is violating the Electronic Communications Privacy Act. --Mike [hey, Jim really is protected. He's not even allowed to read CDR mail.] To: cypherpunks at toad.com Subject: The last word? (forwarded article) From: fergp at sytex.com (Paul Ferguson) Date: Fri, 02 Jul 93 00:21:16 EDT BoardWatch Magazine July 1993 pages 43 - 46 Steve Jackson Games v. US Secret Service by Peter D. Kennedy [preamble] The Electronic Communications Privacy Act. Two provisions of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act (or ECPA) were paramount in the suit. The plaintiffs claimed the Secret Service violated two provisions -- one prohibiting unjustified "disclosure and use" of e-mail (18 U.S.C. 2703; the other prohibiting "interception" of e-mail (18 U.S.C. 22511(1)). [*1 Interesting. Maybe they have Toto for something intercepted illegally and they're trying to find it from another source (by subpoena).] From: Mike Godwin Subject: Re: Restrictions on crypto exports Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1993 23:32:17 -0400 (EDT) [re: public domain software on ftp archives] It matters not, IMHO, since an ftp archive site qualifies as a library open to the public. --Mike From tcmay at got.net Sun Oct 25 16:28:27 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 08:28:27 +0800 Subject: so, what did Toto *do*,...... In-Reply-To: <199810251155.HAA11099@privacy.nb.ca> Message-ID: At 3:55 AM -0800 10/25/98, Joseph 'Anonymous' Howe wrote: >Reeza! wrote: >> >> >all seen posted here. Personally, I found them a lot milder than Reeza!'s >> >projection of his suicide fantasies, for instance. >> >> Huh? Well Goodness Fuck, Does this mean I am notorious as well? > >In a post primarily about your feelings about Klinton, you outlined >a detailed suicide fantasy ("meet your maker") and suggested other people >might like to eat a bullet too. That's closer to presidential assasination >than Toto ever got. But Reeza! posts from a .mil address, and .mil folks have historically had more lattitude in deciding when and where to apply "sanctions." --Tim May Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From brianbr at together.net Sun Oct 25 17:02:51 1998 From: brianbr at together.net (Brian B. Riley) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 09:02:51 +0800 Subject: Regarding Mitnick: not. Message-ID: <199810260042.TAA27255@mx01.together.net> On 10/25/98 12:11 AM, Information Security (guy at panix.com) passed this wisdom: >ZDnet just sent out a newsletter promoting a series of stories, >including this one: > ># IS YOUR KID A HACKER? ># Is your teen hacking the Pentagon instead of doing homework? ># How to tell -- and how to handle it. Convicted hacker Kevin ># Mitnick gives his views. ># ># >http://chkpt.zdnet.com/chkpt/zdnu98102501/www.zdnet.com/familypc/content/9 >810/columns/parental.html > >No mention of Mitnick. > >They apparently meant to name the article author 'Kevin Poulsen'. > ># It happened to my family 15 years ago, in one of the first hacker >raids in the ># country. At that time, I was the teenage miscreant who was illegally >accessing ># federal computers. Now, in my early thirties, I've begun to wonder how >I would ># protect a kid of my own from becoming a poster child for computer >crime. I believe ># the best approach is to stay informed and to communicate with your >potential ># cyberpunks. > >That reminds me. For those who haven't seen it, there is a commercial >showing a little girl (about 8?) walking into an airport, dizzied by >all the destination choices. The narrative turns to ~"and the Internet >too has many destinations, not all of which she is ready for. Travel >together..." > >All things considered, better than the Federales approach. actually it sounds more like "Reefer Madness" nineties style. Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys "The first 75% of the project takes 90% of the time; the last 15% of the project takes the other 90% of the time. -- Barry Wainwright and numerous ofthe engineers From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz Sun Oct 25 18:20:40 1998 From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 10:20:40 +0800 Subject: TriSnakeoil questions Message-ID: <90936671031620@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz> I'm currently sitting in a booth at a Tandem user show directly opposite the Atalla one. If there's anything in particular which someone wants to ask them, let me know and I'll see how knowledgeable their salesdroids are. Dunno how reliable my access to mail will be in the next day or two, if you're local you could try calling me at the hotel I'm staying, which is the Fairmont in San Jose (although you've got a whelks chance in a supernova of actually catching me in my room, so you'll probably have to leave a message). Peter. From vznuri at netcom.com Sun Oct 25 23:16:00 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 15:16:00 +0800 Subject: anonymous remailers, network computer, singles sites, etc. Message-ID: <199810260646.WAA24262@netcom13.netcom.com> well, nobody has commented on this a whole lot here from what I can tell, but the net is now *plastered* with anonymous remailers in various forms. it's definitely not going away. we now have mail.yahoo.com which can create an alias in a few minutes. also, www.hotmail.com and there are others. one could argue the Net PC (NC) is already here!! web TV allows much software to be run on it (btw, does anyone know if it runs java? if so, I'd say that's definitely a NC). the point is that sites such as games.yahoo.com etc. are essentially sites in which a web site is indistinguishable from software. "the network is the computer". larry ellison went home with his tail between his legs on the NC idea, but what he doesn't realize is that it is actually here en masse. (just not so much in the corporate arena as he envisioned) an interesting subset of anonymity is being used very intensely with online personals!! here's a sophisticated example http://personals.swoon.com/e_personals/static/help.html#e-mail they have a lot of info on how their site acts as a remailer for email messages. this is a very "slick" online magazine clearly showing huge amount of production cash which I personally haven't heard too much about. a bit risque for some peoples tastes, but very intriguing application of cyberspace one never would have dreamt up just a few moons ago. incidentally, there are bazillions of singles sites out there on the internet. its another application of the net one wouldn't necesarily have foreseen, but it really makes sense. hooking up people with people. a strange "killer app" of the net judging by how many there are. there's less "romantic" types of this thing too, for just hooking up people with similar interests, such as www.icq.com and www.cyberfriends.com one tasteful/decent place to start for singles sites is http://www.zdnet.com/yil/content/mag/9803/gurlsites.html ultimately the internet population is starting to discover that the key thing it does is related to *communities*.... From vznuri at netcom.com Sun Oct 25 23:28:51 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 15:28:51 +0800 Subject: capitalism run amuck by Korton Message-ID: <199810260701.XAA25129@netcom13.netcom.com> this guy is really brilliant. the essay is brillant. the pro-capitalist elements here should read this very carefully and read his book. very well researched. impeccable credentials. the real "truth behind the scenes and events" of what's going on in the world ------- Forwarded Message Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 08:04:39 +0000 To: uk-anti-maif at iirc.net From: Paul Swann Subject: Your Mortal Enemy Your Mortal Enemy Faceless bankers now move two trillion dollars around the world every day, searching for quick profits, breaking national economies and putting ever more pressure on natural wealth. What's to be done? Slay the beast of capitalism, says David C Korten, and return money to its proper role. An edited and ammended extract of David Korten's Schumacher Lecture in Bristol on October 17 1998. Published in The Guardian, October 21 1998. For those of us who grew up believing capitalism is the foundation of democracy, market freedom, and the good life it has been a rude awakening to realise that under capitalism, democracy is now for sale to the highest bidder, the market is centrally planned by global mega-corporations larger than most countries, denying one's brothers and sisters a source of livelihood is now rewarded as an economic virtue, and the destruction of nature and life to make money for the already rich is treated as progress. The world is now ruled by a global financial casino staffed by faceless bankers and hedge fund speculators who operate with a herd mentality in the shadowy world of global finance. Each day they move more than two trillion dollars around the world in search of quick profits and safe havens sending exchange rates and stock markets into wild gyrations wholly unrelated to any underlying economic reality. With abandon they make and break national economies, buy and sell corporations, and hold the most powerful politicians hostage to their interests. When their bets pay off they claim the winnings as their own. When they lose, they run to governments and public institutions to protect them against loss with pronouncements about how the poor must tighten their belts and become more fiscally prudent. In the United States, the media keep the public preoccupied with the details of our president's sex life and calls for his impeachment for lying about an inconsequential affair. Meanwhile, Congress and the president are working out of view to push through funding increases for the IMF to bail out the banks who put the entire global financial system at risk with reckless lending. They are advancing financial deregulation to encourage even more reckless financial speculation. And they are negotiating international agreements such as the Multilateral Agreement on Investment intended to make the world safe for financial speculators by preventing governments from intervening to regulate their activities. To understand what is happening we must educate ourselves about the nature of money and the ways of those who decide who will have access to it and who will not. As a medium of exchange, money is one of the most useful of human inventions. But as we become ever more dependent on it to acquire the basic means of our sustenance, we give to the institutions and people who control its creation and allocation the power to decide whether we shall live in prosperity or destitution. With the increasing breakdown of community and governmental social safety nets, our money system has become the most effective instrument of social control and extraction ever devised. The fact that few of us think of the money system as an instrument of control makes it more powerful and efficient as an instrument of wealth extraction. What of capitalism, the self-proclaimed champion of democracy, market freedom, peace and prosperity? Modern capitalism involves a concentration of wealth by the few to the exclusion of the many; it is more than a system of human elites. It has evolved into a system of autonomous rule by money and for money that functions on autopilot beyond the control of any human actor or responsiveness to any human sensibility. Contrary to its claims, capitalism is showing itself to be the mortal enemy of democracy and the market. Its relationship to democracy and the market economy is now much the same as the relationship of a cancer to the body whose life energy it expropriates. Cancer is a pathology that occurs when an otherwise healthy cell forgets that it is a part of the body and begins to pursue its own unlimited growth without regard to the consequences for the whole. The growth of the cancerous cell deprives the healthy cells of nourishment and ultimately kills both the body and itself. Capitalism does much the same to the societies it infests. One reason we fail to recognise the seriousness of our predicament is because we fail to see how capitalism is destroying the world's real wealth. It destroys social capital when it breaks up unions, bids down wages, and treats workers as expendable commodoties, leaving society to absorb the family and community breakdown and violence that are inevitable consequences. It destroys institutional capital when it undermines the function of governments and democracy by weakening environmental health and labour standards, and extracting public subsidies, bailouts and tax exemptions which inflate corporate profits while passing the burdens of risk to governments and the working poor. We arejust beginning to wake up to the fact that the industrial era has in a mere century consumed a consequential portion of the natural capital it took evolution millions of years to create. It is now drawing down our social, institutional and human capital as well. Democracy and markets are wonderful ways of organising the political and economic life of a society to allocate resources fairly and efficiently while securing the freedom and sovereignty of the individual. But modern capitalism is about using money to make money for people who already have more of it than they need. Its institutions breed inequality, exclusion, environmental destruction, social irresponsibility and economic instability while homogenizing cultures, weakening institutions of democracy and eroding the moral and social fabric of society. Though capitalism cloaks itself in the rhetoric of democracy and the market, it is dedicated to the principle that sovereignty properly resides not in the person, but rather in money and property. Under democracy and the market, the people rule. Under capitalism, money rules. The challenge is to replace the global capitalist economy with a properly regulated and locally rooted market economy that invests in the regeneration of living capital, increases net beneficial economic output, distributes that output justly and equitably to meet the basic needs of everyone, strengthens the institutions of democracy and the market, and returns money to its proper role as the servant of productive activity. It should favour smaller local enterprise over global corporations, encourage local ownership, penalise financial speculation, and give priority to meeting the basic needs of the many over providing luxuries and diversions for the wealthy few. In most aspects it should do exactly the opposite of what the global capitalist economy is doing. Most of the responsibility and initiative must come from local and national levels. Supporting nations and localities in this task should become the core agenda of the United Nations, as the protection of people and communities from predatory global corporations and finance is arguably the central security issue of our time. The first positive step would be to dismantle the World Trade Organisation on the ground that there is no legitimate need for a global police force to protect global corporations from the actions of democratically-elected national and local governments so that the richest one per cent of humanity can become even richer at the expense of the rest. The WTO is a powerful, but illegitimate and democratically unaccountable institution put in place through largely secret negotiations with little or no public debate to serve purposes largely conltrary to the public interest. The 99 percent of the world's people whose interests it does not serve have every right to eliminate it. Addressing the real need to police the global economy requires an organisation very different from the WTO - an open and democratic organisation with the mandate and power to set and enforce rules holding those corporations that operate across national borders democratically accountable to the people and priorities of the nations where they operate. It should as well have the power to regulate and tax international financial flows and institutions. And it should have a mandate to make speculation unprofitable and to help protect the integrity of domestic financial institutions from the financial markets and the predatory practices of international financial speculators. There are obvious questions as to whether such proposals are politically feasible given the stranglehold of corporations and big money over our political processes. Yet we could use this same reasoning to conclude that human survival itself is not politically feasible. Global corporations and financial institutions are our collective creations. And we have both the right and the means to change or replace them if they do not serve. Dr David Korten is president of the People-Centered Development Forum in Washington State, USA and the author of 'When Corporations Rule the World' and the forthcoming 'The Post-Corporate World: Life After Capitalism'. - - --------------6FBCF3F02DF50E9512DB50EB-- - ------- End of Forwarded Message ------- End of Forwarded Message From howree at cable.navy.mil Mon Oct 26 00:20:48 1998 From: howree at cable.navy.mil (Reeza!) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 16:20:48 +0800 Subject: so, what did Toto *do*,...... In-Reply-To: <199810251155.HAA11099@privacy.nb.ca> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981026175759.007e9100@205.83.192.13> At 07:55 AM 10/25/98 -0400, Joseph 'Anonymous' Howe wrote: >Reeza! wrote: >> >> >all seen posted here. Personally, I found them a lot milder than Reeza!'s >> >projection of his suicide fantasies, for instance. >> >> Huh? Well Goodness Fuck, Does this mean I am notorious as well? > >In a post primarily about your feelings about Klinton, you outlined >a detailed suicide fantasy ("meet your maker") and suggested other people >might like to eat a bullet too. That's closer to presidential assasination >than Toto ever got. If you will review that again, you will find that the barb was directed towards persons other than the President. I may not like THAT man, but I still must respect the Office and position he holds. I was not calling for a sanction of the president. I was suggesting in very blunt terms that various of his supporters would do the world a favor by getting off (of it). Especially the ones who rationalize and dismiss his various (and multiple) piccadilloes because he supports their pet social project. Reeza! From mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de Mon Oct 26 01:21:08 1998 From: mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de (Mok-Kong Shen) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 17:21:08 +0800 Subject: PRNGs and testers. In-Reply-To: <19981021151835.A26267@krdl.org.sg> Message-ID: <36343727.F2E8A921@stud.uni-muenchen.de> David Honig wrote: > > An experiment > > Run a block cipher in a feedback mode, generating a large data file. > Any good cipher will pass Diehard's tests for structure. So will > a true random file. > > (I've posted directions for producing decent true randomness from > a detuned FM radio, soundcard, and 8->1 parity-reduction filtering.) > > Now run Maurer's test; I've posted a version for blocksize = 16. > The cipher-PRNG output will not have the entropy expected for randomness. > The physical-random file will. > I don't see you have answered my question of whether a test has to take into consideration how a sequence of numbers has been obtained. Also what you wrote above seems to be less than clear. Do you suggest that Mauerer's test is extremely good in deciding whether a sequence is TRULY random? (I think Maurer's test is good for investigating PRNG squences but maybe not used as a criterion between pseudo- randomness and true randomness (whatever that may be defined)). What if some PRNGs pass Maurer's test? M. K. Shen From Richard.Bragg at ssa.co.uk Mon Oct 26 02:22:35 1998 From: Richard.Bragg at ssa.co.uk (Richard.Bragg at ssa.co.uk) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 18:22:35 +0800 Subject: Irony Message-ID: <802566A9.0034FA0B.00@seunt002e.ssa.co.uk> The trouble is that most people think irony has something to do with metal! vin at shore.net on 24/10/98 16:16:12 To: cypherpunks at toad.com cc: (bcc: Richard Bragg/UK/SSA_EUROPE) Subject: Re: Irony At 04:19 PM 10/23/98 +0200, Mok-Kong Shen wrote: >>> Dear Friend, >> >>I don't know the English term but in my native language what is >>described is call 'chaining letters', supposed to be a method to >>become rich very rapidly. That was illegal, though. At 6:10 PM -0400 10/23/98, Anonymous wrote: >In my language we have something called humor, which some >taxonomize with terms like irony, sarcasm, wit, etc. In Spanish, Italian, and Portuguese, we have this concept called charity, which some taxonomize with terms like tolerance and benevolance. Think of it as a reticence to be snide, petty, or sarcastic at the expense of others. From mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de Mon Oct 26 03:02:11 1998 From: mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de (Mok-Kong Shen) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 19:02:11 +0800 Subject: Postition determination Message-ID: <36344BB4.D8297266@stud.uni-muenchen.de> I am told that GPS can only locate to about 100 meters but a refined technique can do that to 0.5 meter. There seems to be a practically useful method of somewhat different vein. See http://www.rfid.org M. K. Shen From Theodor.SCHLICKMANN at BXL.DG13.cec.be Mon Oct 26 03:05:55 1998 From: Theodor.SCHLICKMANN at BXL.DG13.cec.be (Theodor.SCHLICKMANN at BXL.DG13.cec.be) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 19:05:55 +0800 Subject: An amendment proposal... In-Reply-To: <199810241750.MAA16681@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: > Section 6. The concept of individual privacy is hereby clearly recognized > as being held by all peoples. No agency of any civil, legal, > military, or executive authority may infringe this right > without > just cause. This right shall include all communications, > writings, storage media, and other technologies used in the > creation, execution, and storage. No authority within the > United States of America may prohibit the publishing of any > document or other media. The rights of ownership and copyright > shall be respected to the legal holder. Your scope of privacy seems to be rather narrow. It is not only communication. Privacy is also needed on public places (e.g., violated by face recognition systems), at work places (e.g.,violated by telephone tapping), for your body (e.g., endangered by abortion control), Copyright protection is only one way of hiding subsidies to industry. The amount of money which is sometimes claimed in relation to copyright violation is wishful thinking. If copyright protection would work, then the value of sold products will be much less. A very small number of people would buy the product for the regular price. On the other hand with piracy, the market share is growing extremely fast. The current situation is hypocritical, because industry wants both. Theodor Schlickmann From sorens at workmail.com Mon Oct 26 06:19:56 1998 From: sorens at workmail.com (Soren) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 22:19:56 +0800 Subject: capitalism run amuck by Korton In-Reply-To: <199810260701.XAA25129@netcom13.netcom.com> Message-ID: <36348728.37872D5D@workmail.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 11637 bytes Desc: not available URL: From s1180 at qmail.pjwstk.waw.pl Mon Oct 26 08:05:44 1998 From: s1180 at qmail.pjwstk.waw.pl (Jan Dobrucki) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 00:05:44 +0800 Subject: I'm getting mail from people i never heard off... Message-ID: <36349272.5E486C17@qmail.pjwstk.waw.pl> This is a weird one. It had nothing in the body of the message... so what the heck can this all mean? JD Return-Path: Delivered-To: s1180 at qmail.pjwstk.waw.pl Received: (qmail 26032 invoked from network); 22 Oct 1998 13:46:38 -0000 Received: from ny1.cch-lis.com (firewall-user at 208.203.201.2) by qmail.pjwstk.waw.pl with SMTP; 22 Oct 1998 13:46:38 -0000 Received: by ny1.cch-lis.com; id BAA16396; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 01:11:42 -0400 Received: from notes(165.181.145.8) by ny1.cch-lis.com via smap (4.1) id xmaa15665; Wed, 21 Oct 98 01:08:39 -0400 Received: by notes.cch-lis.com(Lotus SMTP MTA SMTP v4.6 (462.2 9-3-1997)) id 852566A4.001D343C ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 01:18:59 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CCHLIS at LIS NET From: "Mohammed Lazhar" To: Jan_Dobrucki_ Message-ID: <852566A4.001CE903.00 at notes.cch-lis.com> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 01:15:46 -0400 Subject: Mohammed Lazhar is out of the office. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Status: O X-Mozilla-Status: 8003 From jbash at cisco.com Mon Oct 26 10:38:25 1998 From: jbash at cisco.com (John Bashinski) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 02:38:25 +0800 Subject: anonymous remailers, network computer, singles sites, etc. In-Reply-To: <199810260646.WAA24262@netcom13.netcom.com> Message-ID: <19981026174929.3019.qmail@susan.cisco.com> OK, I can't resist this one... > an interesting subset of anonymity is being > used very intensely with online personals!! > here's a sophisticated example > > http://personals.swoon.com/e_personals/static/help.html#e-mail > > they have a lot of info on how their site > acts as a remailer for email messages. > this is a very "slick" online magazine clearly showing > huge amount of production cash which I personally > haven't heard too much about. a bit risque for > some peoples tastes, but very intriguing application > of cyberspace one never would have dreamt up just a > few moons ago. I think maybe you need to have your dreaming apparatus checked out. As far as I know, the very *first* anonymous remailing system on the Net, which was created long before there was a Cypherpunks list and long before there was a Worldwide Web, was the anonymous posting/reply system for alt.sex.bondage. It was quickly followed by systems for a few other groups. Especially prominent among these were the anonymous contact systems for alt.personals and alt.personals.bondage. Actually, I may have the order wrong. In any case, the systems were definitely well established by 1990, and I seem to remember them starting up in around 1988. Since they also predate things like DejaNews, and since my memory of those days is clouded by age and general dissipation, it's would take some resarch to find out exactly when they were set up, and I don't think I care to do it. I believe that these systems were the inspiration for anon at penet.fi. They sort of fell apart when the PENET remailer came into being. Of course, these weren't truly anonymous systems in the sense that the Cypherpunks remailers are, or in the sense that Zero Knowledge is setting up, but they were probably more secure than the remailing services on most personals Web sites. ... and newspaper personal ad sections have been providing a similar service with paper mail for longer than I've been alive. Probably for centuries. There's actually a closely related "identity escrow" application that I expect to see soon, if it hasn't already been done. People who meet for anonymous sexual encounters are putting themselves at increased risk of assault, murder, and that sort of thing, but typically don't want to tell their mothers where they'll be. A system that could be used, under carefully controlled conditions, to find out who they were with when they disappeared, would act as a deterrent and might provide a bit more peace of mind. -- John B. From frissell at panix.com Mon Oct 26 11:13:42 1998 From: frissell at panix.com (Duncan Frissell) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 03:13:42 +0800 Subject: MIB Subponeas In-Reply-To: <199810241358.JAA15466@dewdrop2.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <4.0.2.19981026110245.03e27250@panix.com> Things to say when the subpoena comes. 1. "My mental and or physical condition makes it impossible for me to travel to the location stated in the subpoena." 2. "My religious belief (or philosophy fulfilling the same role in my life that religion fulfills in the lives of believers) prevents me from telling the truth under compulsion. 3. "I suffer from a recognized social/affective disorder that prevents me from obeying government orders." 4. "If administered an oath, I will refuse to promise to tell the truth but will instead reserve the right to lie." 5. "I will have left the jurisdiction prior to my proposed testimony date so you can fuck yourselves." 6. "I have no knowledge of anything mentioned in the subpoena." 7. "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." 8. "As a committed believer in the independent rights of jurors, I intend to inform any Grand or Petit juries that I encounter of their right to judge the law, the facts, and the validity of all government actions." 9. "I do not posses any government-issued photo ID and thus cannot travel to the location stated in the subpoena. DCF From jay.t.lee at ac.com Mon Oct 26 11:35:39 1998 From: jay.t.lee at ac.com (Jay T. Lee) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 03:35:39 +0800 Subject: Child-Molesting Forger's Chilling Confession!!!1! Message-ID: <199810261855.SAA14526@charon.pjm.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/x-www-form-urlencoded Size: 34 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pooh at efga.org Mon Oct 26 12:17:28 1998 From: pooh at efga.org (Robert A. Costner) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 04:17:28 +0800 Subject: MIB Subponeas In-Reply-To: <199810241358.JAA15466@dewdrop2.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981026144314.038c6020@rboc.net> At 01:15 PM 10/26/98 -0500, Duncan Frissell wrote: >9. "I do not posses any government-issued photo ID and thus cannot travel >to the location stated in the subpoena. ROTFLMAO... This last one is too funny to not use. I don't have a subpoena, but I can just see myself writing back explaining this and requesting assistance with a plane flight to solve this problem. -- Robert Costner Phone: (770) 512-8746 Electronic Frontiers Georgia mailto:pooh at efga.org http://www.efga.org/ run PGP 5.0 for my public key From mmotyka at lsil.com Mon Oct 26 12:21:43 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 04:21:43 +0800 Subject: Word choice Message-ID: <3634D08B.1E7D@lsil.com> > How does this differ from the motives of your ordinary politician? > > Post-revolution, will there be caliber limitations when hunting them? Hunt all you want. The post-revolution utopia will be administered by persons of the same mentality as those we have administering our Democratic Republic now. They will use the same if not more advanced techniques to acquire and maintain power. "Nature abhors a vacuum", right? Mike From mmotyka at lsil.com Mon Oct 26 12:22:39 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 04:22:39 +0800 Subject: Rendering ( was MIB Subponeas ) Message-ID: <3634CE28.66CC@lsil.com> > Protective intelligence programs are based on the idea that the risk of > violence is minimized if persons with the interest, capacity and willingness > to mount an attack can be identified and rendered harmless before they > approach a protected person. I'm all for reducing the risk of violence but... Interest, capacity and willingness are insufficient when taken alone. Collecting real names and addresses is, apparently, enough of a concrete step to at least begin the "rendering" process. Through rendering we can provide many useful by-products including fertilizer, soap, glue and a horrible stink downwind from the plant. If an AP bot were renamed, for instance, a Collectively Rewarded Action Program would it be as obvious a target? One could then post Action Items and Action Rewards to it anonymously. Everything from cleaning the litter off Rt 680 in Fremont to hosing Monsanto ( the foul-milk, press-squashing, poison-cow BST boys ). Then what would be needed is some sort of Eternity Service for an active server - detect tampering and jump hosts. Mike From mmotyka at lsil.com Mon Oct 26 12:28:03 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 04:28:03 +0800 Subject: Cameras in Public Places Message-ID: <3634D422.79AD@lsil.com> > Privacy is also needed on public places (e.g., violated by face > recognition systems) These early systems have got to have some major problems. The appropriate way of dealing with them is to wait for some people to be misidentified and then file suit against the municipality using the equipment. Harassment, false arrest, invasion of privacy, abuse of power, loss of reputation, loss of the ability to earn a living - take a few of the cities for $10 or $20 million and they'll get the message that they've been had by the SW vendors. However much I like technology, it looks more and more like politics is king. For now. Mike From honig at sprynet.com Mon Oct 26 12:29:55 1998 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 04:29:55 +0800 Subject: PRNGs and testers. In-Reply-To: <19981021151835.A26267@krdl.org.sg> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981026110933.007ba9a0@m7.sprynet.com> At 09:47 AM 10/26/98 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote: >David Honig wrote: >> Now run Maurer's test; I've posted a version for blocksize = 16. >> The cipher-PRNG output will not have the entropy expected for randomness. >> The physical-random file will. >> > >I don't see you have answered my question of whether a test has to >take into consideration how a sequence of numbers has been obtained. A test measures only what it measures. You never know if this is sufficient. A sample of a non-random process may pass your tests if they don't measure the right thing. >Also what you wrote above seems to be less than clear. Do you suggest >that Mauerer's test is extremely good in deciding whether a sequence >is TRULY random? (I think Maurer's test is good for investigating I only find it interesting that the test can distinguish between the two data samples. To the eye, or ear, or Diehard, they appear the same. >What if some PRNGs pass Maurer's test? > >M. K. Shen I'd find it surprising if any did, given what I described. DH From rah at shipwright.com Mon Oct 26 12:40:23 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 04:40:23 +0800 Subject: IP: Uncle Sam Wants Spooks. Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Delivered-To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com X-Sender: believer at telepath.com Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 09:31:49 -0600 To: believer at telepath.com From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Uncle Sam Wants Spooks. Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Precedence: list Reply-To: believer at telepath.com Status: U Source: Wired http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/15816.html Uncle Sam Wants Spooks by Arik Hesseldahl 4:00 a.m.26.Oct.98.PST With the Cold War over and United States intelligence agencies in flux, both the Central Intelligence Agency and the National Security Agency have begun to struggle with an issue plaguing the private sector: how to hire and retain talented employees. In a world that increasingly uses computer networks to communicate and transfer information, the agencies are specifically looking for people who can navigate the Net and other networks. The CIA launched the most ambitious hiring program in the agency's history earlier this year, and it is expected to hire record numbers of case officers between now and 2005. Along with a new, Java-heavy recruiting section on the agency's home page, the agency is advertising widely in magazines like The Economist and recruiting on college campuses and within the military. "Our recruiting efforts are much more focused than they have been in recent years and we have a better idea of our target audience," said CIA spokeswoman Anya Gilsher. "We're facing increasingly difficult challenges like terrorism, mass destructive weapons, and narcotics. These are all very difficult targets, which require innovative approaches and a talented work force." Computer programmers and engineers are as in demand in the intelligence business as they are in any other industry, Gilsher said. "We're looking for people who can deal with different computer systems and software. Someone who is creative in their ability to handle and manipulate information technology and build programs that could be useful to us," she said. While Gilsher would not go into specifics, an article in The New York Times in June suggests that the proliferation of computer networks around the globe has, for example, complicated the ability of agents to slip in and out of countries covertly using fake passports. It's a different story for the National Security Agency, the country's super-secret signals intelligence agency. In an unusually candid series of answers to written questions, the NSA said it is struggling with one of the same issues plaguing the private sector: employee retention. A recent article in the magazine Government Executive said the agency is suffering a "brain drain," losing some of its best code-makers and code-breakers to the private sector. In a written statement, NSA spokesman Patrick Weadon confirmed that the agency is working harder than it has in the past to attract and keep its employees. "NSA, like most of the nation's IT community, has had significant challenges in hiring and retaining IT personnel," Weadon wrote. "Having said that, NSA has been successful attracting computer professionals with the stimulating nature of the work, student programs, and the total benefits package." The NSA also happens to be the country's single-biggest employer of mathematicians, and expects to hire more than 100 Ph.D.-level mathematicians in the next three years. Like the CIA, the NSA has launched a recruitment Web page, which has attracted 20 percent of its recent resumes. The NSA also posts its job openings on employment Web sites like Job Web and Career Mosaic. The agency has been aggressively marketing itself to students, offering several internship programs. One program gives college juniors 12 weeks of summer work experience, after which they return to school for their senior year with a job offer in hand. Another program allows college students to alternate working for the agency and going to school each semester. Some personnel also qualify for a fully funded graduate studies program, during which they can go to school full time for a year and still earn a salary, provided they commit to work for NSA for three years. NSA employees aren't likely to take jobs for the money, however. Computer science jobs at the NSA pay between US$35,000 and $70,000 a year, much less than in the private sector. "IT professionals seek out the NSA due to the unique nature of our work," Weadon wrote. "This has made us successful in attracting computer professionals over the past several years, and we believe this appeal will continue into the future." Not everyone agrees. Steve Aftergood, a research analyst for the Federation of American Scientists, said the allure of working in the intelligence community is wearing thin. "The intelligence agencies have an unattractive air about them," Aftergood said. "They have an aura of failure about them, especially in recent years. Rightfully or wrongly, they have been attacked as incompetent and even obsolete. Those charges may or may not be true, but they cast a long shadow over the agencies in the public mind." In recent years, the CIA has faced its share of problems within and criticisms from without. This year, for example, the agency was criticized for not having predicted nuclear weapons tests by India and Pakistan. In 1994, CIA employee Aldrich Ames was caught after revealing the identities of CIA operatives in the Soviet Union over the course of nine years. For its part, the NSA has been criticized for its efforts to keep strong encryption systems out of the hands of private citizens. Both the CIA and NSA still maintain a technological edge over the private sector, but Aftergood said that lead is shrinking. "The reality is that the private sector now competes in many areas that used to be the exclusive domain of the intelligence agencies," he said, citing encryption, computer software implementation, and analysis of foreign military and economic conditions as examples. The schools that train the spies and intelligence analysts of the future are placing a new importance on learning to use the Net and other online resources to get the job done. Robert Heibel, director of the Research/Intelligence Analyst Training Program at Mercyhurst College in Erie, Pennsylvania, said students get a thorough exposure to the Net and computers in general. The program trains students to "drink from the firehose," to glean important nuggets of information as tools for decision makers, Heibel said. Graduates of the program have gone on to become analysts for the CIA, NSA, FBI and other agencies swimming in the intelligence community's alphabet soup, he said. "We teach a concept called open source and public domain intelligence -- that is, taking what is in the public domain and creating new knowledge by analysis and interpretation," he said. "If you spend 20 percent of your intelligence budget on open source intelligence you'll be able to answer 70 percent of the boss's questions." Applying for a job with the CIA is easy: Send a resume. The CIA scans the resumes it gets using optical character recognition technology. An applicant for either agency must also submit to a thorough background investigation, a polygraph test, and medical and psychological examinations, said Gilsher, who went through the process herself. The process currently takes five to six months, but the agency is hoping to shorten that to three or four months, she said. Copyright � 1994-98 Wired Digital Inc. All rights reserved. ---------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From minow at pobox.com Mon Oct 26 13:38:24 1998 From: minow at pobox.com (Martin Minow) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 05:38:24 +0800 Subject: Java applet security, exportability, Jon Postel haiku In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A few Java comments on David Conrad's questions: > >As they go through the data entry process I collect bits of entropy from >mouse and keyboard events in a java.security.SecureRandom object. Java 1.1 lets you attach event handlers to every user-interaction class. For example, you can watch mouse movement, mouse entry and exit into your components, and character entry in all text fields. You might try adding handlers and capturing mouse position and the system clock. Each event, by itself, won't give you much entropy (and, of course, they are highly correlated event-to-event), but you should be able to get a bit or two from each event. > >... I was flabbergasted when I found out that jdk >1.0 had no printing API and so our applet, if it should allow users to >print, must be a 1.1 applet, and very few browsers have 1.1 support Java 1.1 is real, and support is becoming available on all platforms. The lack of a printing API in Java 1.0 was probably a good thing: printing is hard to get right, especially in a cross-platform environment, and waiting for a more mature AWT will avoid compatibility issues. Since your customers use a browser, why not display the data and have the browser handle the printing? Martin Minow minow at pobox.com From mgering at ecosystems.net Mon Oct 26 14:18:00 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 06:18:00 +0800 Subject: capitalism run amuck by Korton Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7AA3@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com> David Korton wrote: > exchange rates and stock markets into wild gyrations wholly > unrelated to any underlying economic reality. Who has both the motive to deny economic reality and the power to do so in the short term? > To understand what is happening we must educate ourselves > about the nature of money http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/money.html > we give to the institutions and people who control its > creation and allocation the power to decide whether we > shall live in prosperity or destitution. Who controls it, how and why? > Contrary to its claims, capitalism is showing itself to > be the mortal enemy of democracy and the market. Capitalism and democracy have nothing to do with each other. "capitalism is...the mortal enemy of ...the market." "capitalism is...the mortal enemy of ...the [free] market." "capitalism is...the mortal enemy of ...[free] market [capitalism]." "capitalism is...the mortal enemy of ...[capitalism]." Hmmm, there is a problem here. "[Modern pseudo-]capitalism is the mortal enemy of [free] market [capitalism]." There, that works. > Under capitalism, money rules. Money can't rule, it is not sentient. Who controls money? > The challenge is to replace the global capitalist > economy with a properly regulated ...economy > United Nations, as the protection of people and > communities from predatory global corporations > and finance I can't believe after 69 years people are still shoveling the same socialist and protectionist bullshit. I cannot figure out how someone can get so close to pointing on the problem with [modern] capitalism and still come to all the wrong conclusions. I've never seen populism and [free] market economics twisted together so perversely. Matt "I think you have to define what you mean by a free market. If you have a fiat currency, which is what everyone has in the world --- ...That is not a free market. Central banks of necessity determine what the money supply is. If you're on a gold standard or other mechanism in which the central banks do not have discretion, then the system works automatically. " --Federal Reserve Chairman, Alan Greenspan From vin at shore.net Mon Oct 26 14:53:40 1998 From: vin at shore.net (Vin McLellan) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 06:53:40 +0800 Subject: dbts: Cryptographic Dog Stocks, The Dirigible Biplane, and Sending the Wizards Back to Menlo Park In-Reply-To: Message-ID: [Subtitle:"Identity, Authentication, & Dunkin Donut Mysticism."] At 12:18 AM -0400 on 10/23/98, Vin McLellan, speaking for legions of SDTI/RSADSI fans (and, evidently, retainers), wrote: >> Hettinga's apparent scorn for modern cryptography's obsession with >> strong authentication -- now manifest in the intensity with which >> professionals worry the issues around PKC binding, key certification, >> digital signatures, CA procedures (and in the demand for smartcards to >> secure X509 certs apart from the networked CPU) -- bespeaks a truly >> iconoclastic mind. At which, Mr. Hettinga took a bow ("Thank you. I think.") and proceeded to argue for his Vision, yet again: >Look, folks, "strong authentication" is not the problem. It's biometric >*identity* which is the problem. Cryptography gives us the ability to do >away with "identity"-based key-mapping altogether. A key is a permission to >do something specific with a microprocessor, no more, or less. It doesn't >"mean" anything else. Certainly, if you go back and look at the actual, >legal, definitions of "signature", or "certificate", they don't mean what >people like Verisign (or say, the State of Utah) says their authentication >technology does. But what if we don't _want_ to lose the link between a key (think of it as a secret) and the identity of a biological entity? What if -- instead of anonymity -- our goal is accountability? Truth is, I don't think we're reading from the same page here. (Or maybe, more to the point, we've been working in different dimensions.) It strikes me that while Mr. Hettinga and other e$ seers may have spent the past decade considering how to allow transactional exchanges to escape a human linkage, most professional sysops and network managers have been concerned with how to strengthen the linkage between on-line accounts, actions, and audit trails -- and the humans to which a user's account has been assigned. In this context, any capacity of modern cryptography "to do away with 'identity'-based key-mapping" is irrelvant or worse. The mechanics of "user authentication" -- validating that a remote human is indeed the same human earlier enrolled and assigned a user account on this computer system -- are the foundation of whatever we know about computer and network security today. It may be that the structure and requirements of contemporary corporate networks are irrelevant, just so much background babel, to e-commerce visionaries like Rob and others on the e$ lists. This is a problem in both cultures. Mr. Hettinga intones: >Software will be utterly replicable and will be sold recursively, and >untraceably, on a bearer basis, primarily because that's the cheapest way >to safely trade money for information on a ubiquitous geodesic public >network. ... and I nod, a closet Hettinga fan. I trace the outline of his spiel in my mind like an M.C. Escher tessellation: bug-free software, stateless utopias, and buyers careless of liability. Charming. 2lst Century stuff. Maybe. Maybe not. Then I turn back to the bet-your-business questions of data and system security, where (even with a batch of theory that is universally accepted) implementation hassles routinely swamp practioners. The mundane management and control issues associated with system and network access, and the range of privileges granted to an on-line entity, remain a vexing problem. The difficulty and sometimes the cost of managing reliable "user authentication is an issue;" more often, however, the core problem is that the owners of systems and networks aren't convinced the value of the data and systems they have online deserves a per-user security investment equal to, say, a modem. User Authentication, not coincidentally, is the business of SDTI. In large part because of the magic of RSA and PKI, the mechanical and virtual options for user authentication are changing, even as the fundamentals remain the same. In enterprise networks; in extended Extranets; in business to business connections that replace, enhance, or mimic EDI -- there is great hope that scalable PKI will allow not only confidentiality and strong authentication, but also the other cryptographic services possible only thru public key cryptography: digital sigs for message and source authentication, non-repudiation (with a trusted Current Time source), and confidential communications between parties which have had no prior contact. Nitty-gritty wonderful stuff. PKI (and the "'identity'-based key-mapping" that Mr. Hettinga is so eager to do away with) are viewed with great hope among many if not most IT professionals. Corporate security managers hope that the utility and power of PKC's extended capabilities will define this security technology as an "enabler" -- something users want because it makes their work easier -- rather than the auditor-mandated burden that security mechanisms have traditionally been. For 30-odd years, info security professionals have used a model which declares that there are only three ways for a machine to validate or authenticate that a remote human is the person who was initially identified and enrolled (by a trusted Admin) as the user authorized to use a computer account: _"something known," a memorized password or PIN; _"something held," a physical token that can be carried as a personal identifier; or _"something one is," a biometric like a fingerprint or voiceprint. Graybeards like myself tend to filter all the rumpus about corporate PKIs and global/local keys through this traditional model -- if only because many crypto mavens seem so thoughtless about leaving a potentially powerful piece of data (an PKC private key) relatively unprotected on a PC or networked workstation. The industry's traditional definition of "strong" authentication demands that an authenticating CPU require direct evidence of at least two of the three modes of ID authentication before a user is allowed access to protected resources. (The idea is that an attacker would have to subvert at least two independent systems to corrupt the authentiation.) [For those unfamiliar with the company, SDTI's bread and butter business is this two-factor authentication. The company is best known for the three or four million SecurID tokens it has shipped: key fobs or credit-card sized tokens which continually and automatically hash a secret seed and Current Time to generate a 6-8 digit alphanumeric "tokencode." [SDTI's authentication server, called an ACE/Server, manages the records of tens of thousands of concurrent SecurID holders and validates or rejects two-factor authentication calls (a tokencode and a memorized PIN) which are relayed through a network of outlying ACE/Agents (which are often embedded in other third-party network products.) Due to the popularity of the SecurID with users, ACE/Agents are all but ubiquitous. Virtually all commercial VPNs, firewalls, communication and terminal servers -- multiple product lines from some 60 independent vendors, from Oracle to IBM -- ship with ACE/Agent code embedded in them. See: http://www.securid.com/partners ] Meanwhile, for one possible future, Mr. Hettinga promotes a crypto-anarchic buyer/seller paradigm: >...control of a given cryptographic key is completely orthogonal to >the idea of identity. You can map an identity to it, but you don't have to, >because possession of the key is "permission", "authority", enough, all by >itself. *Who* you give permission to, by name, fingerprint, or physical >address, doesn't matter.... Ummm. *Who* matters a great deal to the pros who run today's networks. Security, audit, and accountability all presume a firm grip on who is on-line and what he's doing. (Different dimensions, right?) For access and privilege managment in PKI-enhanced corporate network, most of us want -- at the very least! -- an RSA key/secret firmly mapped to a user/identity. [Mind you, until that private or secret key is further protected by being encased in a token-like smartcard or PCMCIA card -- and until that smartcard _also_ requires a memorized password or PIN to access or use that key -- veteran network or system managers will never be comfortable with a PKC-based authentication...despite the wonderfully grandular controls PKI can offer on networked resources. Truth is, we all know that networked PCs are risky platforms -- so until _all_ the crypto processing is shifted off the PC to the isolated smartcard, infosec pros will worry and kvetch. Expect it.] Readers who have the patience to read Rob's essays are probably still with me, so let me point out that this cross-dimensional cat fight only began when Mr. Hettinga stomped on SDTI and used the companies' recent travails in the stock market as a launching pad for another essay into the stratosphere. Were the original post a discussion of the Dow, or even SDTI's stock price, I'd just duck and run. (Frankly, I don't understand the stock market... and, unlike Mr. Hettinga, I don't have a great deal of respect for the opinions that seem to inform it. To me it's mostly tulip speculation. Mr. H's pal, "Anonymous" -- who made his bones with the declaration that SDTI's ACE/SecurID authentication system is doomed because it is ten years old -- was offering what many brokers refer to as an in-depth analysis;-) I only challenged Mr. Hettinga because his initial comments about SDTI seemed to indicate such vast ignorance of the contemporary security market. No one who knows anything about SDTI and that market would say that the only thing SDTI has that is worth anything is its stake in Verisign (and, of course, it was Rob, not the Globe, who said that.) In the absence of ubiquitous smartcard readers, it seems to me equally foolish to declare that X509 certificates make SecurID and similar two-factor tokens "obsolete" (and, of course, it was Rob, not the Globe, who said that too.) "Close enough for an Internet rant" doesn't cut it as an apologia -- not when a prominent commentator smears a public company on a half-dozen widely-read Internet forums. (Meaning no insult, Rob, but there is a modicum of responsibility that goes along with all those seats at the front table.) Seemingly piqued by the response to his initial comments, Mr. Hettinga then got down to a little bare-knuckle company valuation: >In the meantime, Vin, hang on to your SDTI stock, but probably just for >it's residual value to some future investor, like SDTI evidently bought >RSADSI for its own residual value, and, aparently, for whatever mystical >value the market now puts on Verisign. What SDTI _does_ have -- as even the Globe's thumbnail sketch acknowledged -- is a huge installed base and the stature of a sophisticated market leader in a dynamic market. SDTI also has a trust relationship with its customer base, the corporate network managers, that is the envy of many real or potential competitors. (RSADSI, the SDTI subsidiary, is rather tight with its customers -- the commercial software developers -- as well. Both firms have also excelled at developing mutually- advantageous partnerships with multiple companies.) For most of the 1990s, SDTI has also fielded the largest dedicated sales force in the world selling computer security. Against a field of a half-dozen competitors who sell two-factor authentication systems, SDTI owns over half the market. Among the choice corporate customers who have installations with more than 1,500 seats, I'd guess SDTI has over 70 percent of the market. Among the Fortune 100, two-thirds of them rely on SecurIDs and ACE authentication servers. Potent evidence of SDTI's stature among its customers is in the results of a recent survey of hundreds of NT network managers by the highly respected SANS Institute. See: http://sans.org/powertools.htm Check out what vendors and security technologies they trust most. Check out what percentage of SDTI's current customers recommend the company and its products to others! Entrust, NAI, SCC et al would kill for those 90-plus percent numbers;-) And the same survey, done today, would probably earn SDTI even higher marks with their new PKI-based Domain Authentication for NT. Quiz: What dbts market commentator airily preaches: "[If] you don't go looking for money anywhere but in your customer's pockets, you'll do just fine." It couldn't be the same guy who's now reeling off these pious but opaque little fables, could it? >So, right now, after all that, um, exercise, SDTI/RSADSI/Verisign reminds >me an awful lot of that old joke about the two old Texas spinsters who, >walking down a dusty road, came across a talking frog claiming to turn into >an oil baron, if only one of them would kiss him to prove it. > >"A talking frog", said one of them, putting the frog in her apron pocket, >"is worth something." (Hummmm. Betcha froggie -- even if he just wanted a kiss -- would have taken the time to find out something about the oil business before he claimed to be an Oil Baron. Not all self-declared market analysts are so meticulous;-) There are folks who are certain that Y2K will be blessed with the Second Coming. And then there is Mr. Hettinga, Anonymous, and others who have a gleeful vision of doom, debt, and dismal ROI for Security Dynamics. I find both suspect. Luckily, in both cases, we can get the truth (or at least a consensus one way of the other) within a year or so. I wouldn't want to wager on the Lord's Schedule, but in the case of SDTI's fortune and fate -- well, either the Doomsday Prophet or the Optimistic Courtier will be proven a fool fairly quickly. (What's say, Robert? A New Millenium wager? Winner gets his choice of either a case of decent wine or a box of hollow points on 01/01/00?) Suerte, _Vin ----- Vin McLellan + The Privacy Guild + 53 Nichols St., Chelsea, MA 02150 USA <617> 884-5548 -- <@><@> -- From smb at research.att.com Mon Oct 26 15:04:33 1998 From: smb at research.att.com (Steve Bellovin) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 07:04:33 +0800 Subject: log files (was: Re: dbts: Cryptographic Dog Stocks, The Dirigible Biplane, and Sending the Wizards Back to Menlo Park ) Message-ID: <199810262226.RAA12688@postal.research.att.com> > It strikes me that while Mr. Hettinga and other e$ seers may have > spent the past decade considering how to allow transactional exchanges to > escape a human linkage, most professional sysops and network managers have > been concerned with how to strengthen the linkage between on-line accounts, > actions, and audit trails -- and the humans to which a user's account has > been assigned. Leaving aside the rest of this discussion, Vin touches on a point that I think has been ignored by some: operations demand log files. That is -- and I'm doffing my security hat here and donning the hat of someone who has been running computer systems and networks for 30+ years -- when I'm trying to manage a system and/or troubleshoot a problem, I *want* log files, as many as I can get and cross-referenced 17 different ways. This isn't a security issue -- most system administrator headaches are due to the "benign indifference of the universe", or maybe to Murphy's Law -- but simply a question of having enough information to trace the the perturbations caused to the system by any given stimulus. The more anonymity, and the more privacy cut-outs, the harder this is. I claim, therefore, that the true cost of running such a system is inherently *higher*. There may be, as some have claimed, offesetting operational advantages. But the savings from those advantages need to be balanced against losses due to hard-to-find bugs, or even bugs that one isn't aware of because there's insufficient logging. Remember that double-entry bookkeeping catches all sorts of errors, not just (or even primarily) embezzlement. To be sure, one can assert that the philosophical gains -- privacy, libertarianism, what have you -- are sufficiently important that this price is worth paying. With all due respect, I will assert that that debate is off-topic for this list, and is best discussed over large quantities of ethanol. From ILovToHack at aol.com Mon Oct 26 15:07:33 1998 From: ILovToHack at aol.com (ILovToHack at aol.com) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 07:07:33 +0800 Subject: Rendering ( was MIB Subponeas ) Message-ID: <6ef52a1a.3634f180@aol.com> First of all i want to apoligize for posting this. Second i am a little off on the AP bot could some one please take the time to explain this to me. Thanks. -Mike From bill.stewart at pobox.com Mon Oct 26 15:25:19 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (bill.stewart at pobox.com) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 07:25:19 +0800 Subject: UK police chase crooks on CCTV (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810211322.IAA03036@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981026092728.0096cec0@idiom.com> At 08:22 AM 10/21/98 -0500, Suspect Jim Choate wrote: >> ``The only people entered on to the system will be convicted criminals >> who, through our intelligence, we believe are habitually committing >> crimes in the area,'' The Daily Mail quoted police Chief Superintendent >> Dave Armond as saying. ``If people are not committing crime they have >> nothing to fear, but if they are among the small minority who are, the >> message is, 'We are watching out for you.''' >> The newspaper reported that police initially will use the system to >> concentrate on catching robbery suspects. In the future, however, it > >Excuse me.... > >Since when does 'suspected of' equate to 'convicted criminal'? >Also, in order to wath you (sic) they have to watch everyone - in effect >guilty until proven innocent by the computer software. The policeman's statement, if honest, implies that the system needs a real mugshot or more detailed set of pictures to work from, so they're going to start with feeding it the Usual Suspects, for whom they can get good data for the system to search. It probably also has capacity limitations, so they won't be searching for everybody they have pictures of, just the most likely. However, looking for more people doesn't take more cameras, just more backend computers analyzing the video feeds, so Moore's Law will increase analysis capacity rapidly, though it will also make it cheap to put more cameras out there. >What sort of civil recovery are provided for the inevitable software errors? >I bet nadda, and that's wrong too. Software errors don't seem to be a major problem here - false negatives just mean they miss an opportunity to catch somebody, and false positives mean the system says "Looks like Joe Suspect on Camera 3!" or "Looks like Joe Suspect on Videotape 32674 at 23:10 entering the bank" - in either case, the police can then look at the picture and see if it is. Of course, if you're Jack Suspect, misidentified as Joe Suspect, the police _can_ break down your door at 6am, haul you in, and later apologize by saying "Sorry, honest mistake, it was dark and all you s look alike, but your Public Defender says it's not you in the video so we'll let you go this time, even though you missed your parole office meeting because we had you in jail." >We need a law or court ruling pretty quickly in the US that sets the >standard that a group of people have no more or less rights than an >individual. This will required LEA's to provide probable cause prior to any >actions against groups of people (such as this). Ain't gonna happen - are you kidding? If there is a ruling like that, it'll be done in some way that restricts citizen rights rather than expanding them, or expands police powers rather than restricting them. It's already legal for cops to hang around street corners watching for suspicious activities or suspicious people, and all video recognition technology does is increase their effectiveness and speed at doing things they already are allowed to do. Unfortunately, I'm being increasingly forced to take the David Brin position of "Cameras are cheap, get used to it, just make sure we have more cameras pointing at the cops than they have pointing at us, and make sure the cameras the government has are citizen-accessible as well." Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From rah at shipwright.com Mon Oct 26 15:39:34 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 07:39:34 +0800 Subject: Available For Download: Chapter on Electronic Cash for Upcoming Handbook by CRC Press Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text From: brands at xs4all.nl X-Sender: brands at xs4all.nl (Unverified) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 22:09:06 +0100 To: Robert Hettinga Subject: Available For Download: Chapter on Electronic Cash for Upcoming Handbook by CRC Press Cc: Digital Bearer Settlement List Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Subscribe: X-Web-Archive: http://www.philodox.com/dbs-archive/ Hi all, In light of some questions about my electronic cash systems by Frank Sudia and Robert Hettinga, and some requests I received via e-mail, I decided to make available my chapter on electronic cash that I wrote mid 1996 for the upcoming "Handbook on Algorithms and Theory of Computation," Michael Atallah (editor), CRC Press, ISBN 0849326494. It is an introduction to electronic cash, and contains a high-level description of my system as well as a highly practical implementations of it. You can download the PDF file from http://www.xs4all.nl/~brands Alternatively, get it directly as http://www.xs4all.nl/~brands/draft.pdf Regards, Stefan PS The above book chapter has a very narrow focus, and does a poor job of highlighting the generality of my techniques, which are much more generally applicable than just for the purpose of electronic cash. Over the past two years, I have been busy writing a book, with the preliminary title "Electronic Money and Digital Eligibility Certificates." Currently, over 500 of the approximately 750 pages are finished, and I aim to have it published early next year. If the publisher allows it, large parts of the book will be made available as PDF files as well, but nothing is clear yet. There are also some very real commercial things happening right now; I hope to be able to announce something in the next few months as well. --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From mmotyka at lsil.com Mon Oct 26 15:52:38 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 07:52:38 +0800 Subject: Rendering ( was MIB Subponeas ) In-Reply-To: <6ef52a1a.3634f180@aol.com> Message-ID: <36350081.157B@lsil.com> (Mr/Mrs/Ms) Hack, Many thanks in advance for your generous and gracious assistance. Please tell me where I've headed off the proper path. Without having read any detailed descriptions I thought an AP bot might do the following : Form a token pool associated with some desired event. Accept tokens from any source into that pool. Transfer the entire pool of tokens to the entity that could demonstrate foreknowledge of significant details of the actual event outcome. Couldn't this be more general than just AP? Generalized it could be used for any collectively rewarded effort but its main application looks like anonymous conspiracy. This may be good, maybe not. What I was wondering was if in a very generalized form the server might be "innocent," a mere public bulletin board. Also, couldn't a server like this be implemented as a distributed system that could survive the destruction of some fraction of its body? Again, I apologize for being slow but I do try. Regards, Mike From rah at shipwright.com Mon Oct 26 16:45:28 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 08:45:28 +0800 Subject: dbts: Cryptographic Dog Stocks, The Dirigible Biplane, and Sending the Wizards Back to Menlo Park In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 5:02 PM -0500 on 10/26/98, Vin McLellan wrote: > (Or maybe, more to the point, we've been working in different > dimensions.) Right. Exactly. Attacking flatland from the third dimension has always been my special curse. :-). I hope if I can be excused if I don't want to chase you down that particular rabbit-hole anymore, Vin. Sorry to disappoint, but there are *lots* of other, more qualified people around to walk through *that* particular looking glass, to mix my metaphors like a doormouse. I'm interested in *lots* of other stuff besides the traceability of "on-line" audit trails and mapping meatspace book-entry transaction processing to the internet like so much financial shovelware. I will, however say, once again, that you can have reputation in cypherspace without any biometric "identity" whatsoever, modulo the footprints we all leave when we do stuff anyway. I wrote a rather extended rant about this a while ago, in November or so last year, and everyone on these lists has seen it. (Some, unfortunately, more than once. :-).) Let me know if you want to send it to you under separate cover, and, if memory serves, it may even be on the old Shipwright site, . Anyway, if you'd like to talk to someone who'll take up the cudgel, you might want to talk to folks like Carl Ellison and Perry Metzger, who just did an entire session at the USENIX electronic commerce conference on just this kind of stuff. They're much more, um, curioser and curioser about key/identity orthogonality than I am. :-). I just assume what they more or less prove, to my own satisfaction. I think I've said all I care to on the subject. And watch out for the little blue mushrooms. The visuals last for days... Cheers, Bob Hettinga PS: I would note, by way of a plug, that the DCSB meeting next Tuesday will probably be a *great* place to talk about this, as Dan Geer from CertCo (speaking of the USENIX electronic commerce conference) will certainly be talking about this kind of thing -- and other such fun stuff. ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From stuffed at stuffed.net Tue Oct 27 09:17:00 1998 From: stuffed at stuffed.net (STUFFED TUE OCT 27) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 09:17:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY! 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Plus an update of the election results. http://www.totaltele.com/plenipot98/ ***************************************** current Total Telecom headlines include..... Nokia Turns to Networks After Becoming Top Mobile Phone Company Nokia Oyj, the world's biggest mobile phone company, said it's introducing several products that will boost subscriber capacity up to 10 times as it plans to increase its presence as a network supplier... http://www.totaltele.com/cgi-bin/news.cgi/20274/worldmore.html ------------------ SBC Moves in on Bell Atlantic with Completion of SNET Buy SBC Communications Inc. completed its $6.5 billion purchase of Southern New England Telecommunications Corp., moving the No. 2 U.S. local telephone company into No. 1 Bell Atlantic Corp.'s territory. http://www.totaltele.com/cgi-bin/news.cgi/20270/worldmore.html ---------------- Carrier 1 Offers ISPs a Pay-Per-Use Service Carrier 1 has rolled out the first usage-based billing service for pan-European wholesale IP traffic. Europe's newest wholesaler is pitching the pay-per-packet facility as a cost-saving option to attract http://www.totaltele.com/cgi-bin/news.cgi/20275/worldmore.html --------------- Omnicom Revived by Long Distance Supermarket Tie-up Omnicom SA shares surged 20% after Carrefour SA, France's largest food retailer, picked the French phone company to offer long-distance phone services to its clients. In a partnership with Omnicom, Carrefour...... http://www.totaltele.com/cgi-bin/news.cgi/20271/worldmore.html ---------------- Telekom Says No Date Set for Share Sale Deutsche Telekom AG, Europe's largest telephone company, said it hasn't set a date to sell a second slice of the company, denying a report that a share sale planned for next spring would be postponed. http://www.totaltele.com/cgi-bin/news.cgi/20272/worldmore.html ---------------- plus Asian-American Axis Leaves Europe in the Cold FCC Begins Overhaul of Complex Phone Subsidy System Telecom Italia Chairman Rossignolo Resigns Telia Raises Netia Stake Ahead of Polish Deregulation AT&T, BellSouth to Form New Company to Manage Wireless Venture .....go to the front page for the full list of headlines http://www.totaltele.com ******************************************** Forgotten your password? For help go to:- http://www.totaltele.com/register/reghelp.shtml Any other problems, email:- webmaster at totaltele.com ------------------- If you wish to be removed from future mailings, please reply with "Remove" in the subject line and we will automatically block you from this list. Thank you for reading Total Telecom From jkthomson at bigfoot.com Mon Oct 26 17:20:04 1998 From: jkthomson at bigfoot.com (jkthomson) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 09:20:04 +0800 Subject: Rendering (flame) In-Reply-To: <6ef52a1a.3634f180@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981026164112.00912100@dowco.com> At 05:02 PM 10/26/98 EST, you wrote: >First of all i want to apoligize for posting this. >Second i am a little off on the AP bot could some one please take the time to >explain this to me. Thanks. >-Mike hey, dude... how's that 'law suit' coming along? I've been waiting a long time for an answer from you, did you manage to get one in my size? ------------------------------------------------------------------ From: ILovToHack at aol.com Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 18:10:37 EDT To: jkthomson at bigfoot.com Subject: Re: X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 You post a message like that again and you will be sued for libel my screen name is just a nic and by the way if you think i am jokeing about the law suit try me -------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- james 'keith' thomson www.bigfoot.com/~ceildh jkthomson:C181 991A 405C EAFB 2C46 79B5 B1DC DB78 8196 122D [06.07.98] ceildh :1D79 59AF ED75 5945 6003 8240 DA34 ACCA 9DE4 6BC9 [05.14.98] ICQ:354111 at pgp.mit.edu ...and former sysop of tnbnog BBS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- If you see a man approaching you with the obvious intention of doing you good, you should run for your life. ======================================================================= From billp at nmol.com Mon Oct 26 18:44:07 1998 From: billp at nmol.com (bill payne) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 10:44:07 +0800 Subject: digital cash Message-ID: <363529FB.686B@nmol.com> I am reading http://www.xs4all.nl/~brands/draft.pdf Attached in mirrored at http://www.aci.net/kalliste/bw1 I only built THEM. I am not into crypto. But sort-of understand how it works. Let's hope this gets settled. bill Title: Black and White Test of Cryptographic Algorithms Jump to Forum Click Image to Jump to Next Article Go to Text Only Print Version Black and White Test of Cryptographic Algorithms by William H. Payne This article requires special formatting. Please Click Here to Read Send This Article to a Friend: � Your Name: � Email Address of your Friend: � Your Email address: � � � � � Back to Home Page Quick Menu Visit the Button Shop Interactive Forum Black and White Test of Cryptographic Algorithms E-mail the Editor � From pouttarac at yahoo.com Tue Oct 27 11:04:56 1998 From: pouttarac at yahoo.com (StoneCold-PT) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 11:04:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: unsubcribe Message-ID: <19981027190410.17793.rocketmail@send1d.yahoomail.com> unsubcribe ---Chip Mefford wrote: > > > > Where possible, > > fuk a bunch of airlines anyway. > > Travel by train is a lot more enjoyable, relaxing, fun. > Folks that travel by train could fly, but would > preferr to enjoy the ride, cause it ain't no cheaper, > > except, !! > > you can pay with cash and show no id and go > where you would like in the lower 48. > > anonymously. > > On Tue, 27 Oct 1998, Anonymous wrote: > > > At 02:43 PM 10/26/98 -0400, Robert A. Costner wrote: > > >At 01:15 PM 10/26/98 -0500, Duncan Frissell wrote: > > >>9. "I do not posses any government-issued photo ID and thus cannot travel > > >>to the location stated in the subpoena. > > > > > >ROTFLMAO... > > > > > >This last one is too funny to not use. I don't have a subpoena, but I can > > >just see myself writing back explaining this and requesting assistance with > > >a plane flight to solve this problem. > > > > Actually you don't need state id to fly, legally. But the airlines will > > hassle you and not put your bags aboard til you are. There > > are references on the net to flying without state id. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > == My Favorite Surfing Sites: http://www.dilbert.com/ and http://www.nro.odci.gov/ "To keep you is no benefit; to destroy you is no loss" by Thida Mam _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From xasper8d at lobo.net Tue Oct 27 11:45:08 1998 From: xasper8d at lobo.net (X) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 11:45:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: Airline ID Checking (was: RE: your mail) In-Reply-To: <19981027190715.184.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com> Message-ID: <000001be01e2$296564a0$9c2580d0@ibm> Does anyone know what the airlines do with the info they collect off the ID? Are they just noting whether the names match, or is it more sinister? When I was below legal drinking age (21 in my state) I would drive up to the window (how barbaric! liquor sales to guys in cars!) and give the sub-moronic guy my REAL ID under the assumption that: he expects it to say something that proves I am over age, or else why would I be handing it to him? [nicely enough, this shifts all of the risk of the transaction to him, should it go wrong.] Similarly, if you booked a flight under the name Nevah Umind, when you hand over a piece of ID, they look to see it says Nevah Umind (unless, of course, your name happens to be Nevah Umind) and that's all they want, right? And if we all booked flights under the same name, then wouldn't that throw 'em WAY off? Pick a name, DON'T scan your license in, DON'T edit it, DON'T laminate it, and (for pete's sake!) DON'T use that name. Their querying will tell them, "I have a match, he's okay" (These are not the droids you are looking for, eh!) and away you go! X ~> -----Original Message----- ~> From: owner-cypherpunks at minder.net ~> [mailto:owner-cypherpunks at minder.net]On Behalf Of Joel O'Connor ~> I traveled by train all the way to Florida from Rhode Island once. 24 ~> hours straight it took man and I swore I would never do it again. ~> 40-50 people per car and basically one bathroom per car. Come morning ~> time man, the lines for the bathrooms stretched out of the cars. ~> Screw that, I could have flown and made it in 3 hours. Plus it's ~> easier for the gov't to stop trains and search them, I'd rather go ~> with the flight. ~> From bbt at mudspring.uplb.edu.ph Tue Oct 27 00:34:08 1998 From: bbt at mudspring.uplb.edu.ph (Bernardo B. Terrado) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 16:34:08 +0800 Subject: backtracking..... Message-ID: Could someone point or tell me where and what good backtracking problems could I get (then I'll implement it in parallel). e.g. queen's tour knight's tour Could you give me new and interesting ones. Thank you very much. From listmaster at extensis.com Tue Oct 27 16:55:24 1998 From: listmaster at extensis.com (listmaster at extensis.com) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 16:55:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: Manage your Assets, Simplify your Life---- Extensis Portfolio 4.0 Message-ID: Introducing the Newest Version of our Asset Management Software-Extensis Portfolio 4.0 http://www.extensis.com/products/Portfolio/ - Organize your assets -images, text, photos, multimedia- for instant-access - NEW! Import information from other databases - NEW! Robust scripting now facilitates database and internet publishing - NEW! Slideshow feature provides full-screen display of images - NEW! Scalability with Portfolio Server 4.0 ensures lightening-fast access for workgroups Extensis Portfolio 4.0 and Portfolio Server 4.0 will help you manage and organize your digital assets. Digital assets include digital images, artwork, presentations, multimedia, photos, or other graphic documents that need to be organized and shared. 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We have made every effort to ensure this message is being sent only to people who have expressed interest in Extensis products. If we have sent this to you in error, please accept our apologies and reply with "REMOVE" in the subject line for automatic exclusion from future communications. If you know someone who would like to be on our mailing list have them send an email to listmaster at extensis.com with "ADD" in the subject line and their email address in the body. P.P.S. This message is intended for North American customers. If you are located outside of North America and have received this message, please visit www.extensis.com/purchase/ to find the nearest local distributor in your country. From mgering at ecosystems.net Tue Oct 27 01:11:41 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 17:11:41 +0800 Subject: FW: Death, Politics and the Net Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7AA6@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com> ...and I was just thinking the other day it would be cool to create a government blocking service maintaining a list of disallowed IPs and providing a click-thru redirect agreement complete with legal enforcement. ;) Matt -----Original Message----- From: James S. Tyre [mailto:j.s.tyre at CYBERPASS.NET] Sent: Friday, October 23, 1998 2:59 PM To: CYBERIA-L at LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Death, Politics and the Net [There *is* a cyberia connection in here, somewhere, I think.] I'm sure you all (in the U.S., at least) have heard of the murdered Tennessee state senator, and that his opponent in the upcoming election is now charged with the crime. Well, turns out that the boys aren't just from anywhere in TN, but from Putnam County, home of the cookie-monster suit between the local guvvies and the Putnam Pit . So, always interested in alternative viewpoints, thought I'd see what the Pit had to say, in it's own inimitable way. Found that its home page now says what follows. Thought it might interest some, for reasons unrelated to the alleged crime. ---- Welcome to The Putnam Pit online Because of the costs associated with producing The Putnam Pit caused by local government civil rights violations, government officials, employees and their agents may no longer access this site without a subscription. This site is a private forum. It is private property and protected by copyright law and the fourth amendment to the United States Constitution. If you do not work for or represent the Cookeville or Putnam County, Tenn., governments, are not using a government computer or government Internet account and agree no portion of any material posted here will be made available to the governments of Cookeville or Putnam County, Tenn., or their agents, click here for free access. Notice to employees, officials or agents of the Cookeville or Putnam County, Tenn., governments, and those using a government computer or government Internet account: If you are an employee, official or agent of the Cookeville or Putnam County, Tenn., governments, or you are using a government computer or government Internet account you must purchase a subscription to access The Putnam Pit. A subscription costs $20 and may be obtained by sending a check to The Putnam Pit, P.O. Box 1483, Cookeville, Tenn. 38503. If you access any page of the material managed and owned by The Putnam Pit, Inc., without a subscription, you agree by that access to pay $500 per incident of access to each page accessed every time you access it. You further agree to waive all rights to contest collection of any debt thereby incurred, and enter into this agreement on behalf of the government entity on whose computer or through whose Internet account your access was facilitated. You further represent by clicking below and accessing The Putnam Pit's private and copyrighted property to allow The Putnam Pit or its agents to inspect the hard drive of your computer to determine the number of times the site was accessed according to he terms of this contract to determine the amount owed. click here From mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de Tue Oct 27 02:06:18 1998 From: mok-kong.shen at stud.uni-muenchen.de (Mok-Kong Shen) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 18:06:18 +0800 Subject: PRNGs and testers. In-Reply-To: <19981021151835.A26267@krdl.org.sg> Message-ID: <36359051.574632A8@stud.uni-muenchen.de> David Honig wrote: > > At 09:47 AM 10/26/98 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote: > >What if some PRNGs pass Maurer's test? > I'd find it surprising if any did, given what I described. I believe that there are quite a number. If I am allowed to cite my own stuff, a PRNG of my design did pass Maurer's test. See http://www.stud.uni-muenchen.de/~mok-kong.shen/#paper1 and http://www.stud.uni-muenchen.de/~mok-kong.shen/#paper9 M. K. Shen From rah at shipwright.com Tue Oct 27 06:37:49 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 22:37:49 +0800 Subject: Oct. 27 column -- Halloween Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Resent-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 23:17:25 -0700 Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 22:06:53 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: vin at dali.lvrj.com Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vinsends at ezlink.com From: Vin_Suprynowicz at lvrj.com (Vin Suprynowicz) Subject: Oct. 27 column -- Halloween Resent-From: vinsends at ezlink.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/576 X-Loop: vinsends at ezlink.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vinsends-request at ezlink.com FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE DATED OCT. 27, 1998 THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz Thoughts on the occasion of the October moon The column for which I receive the most "repeat" requests remains my 1992 Halloween submission, "Thoughts on the occasion of the October moon." That essay follows here, as it originally appeared: # # # Halloween approaches, the day when many an American parent will suit up the little ones in black robes, matching 17th century conical hats, and oversized warty noses, sending them off to delight the neighbors with this impersonation of a witch, as traditionally represented from 17th century Austrian paintings of the Hexensabbat right up through Disney's "Snow White." Even the newspapers generally play along, running the results of polls that ask Americans how many actually believe in such mythological creatures as ghosts, trolls and witches. But witches are not mythological creatures, of course. They were the very real practitioners of a religion which pre-dated Christianity in Europe, and which had coexisted quite peaceably with the new Christian church for more than 1,000 years, from the Council of Nicaea until the fateful year 1484 A.D., under the quite sensible rule of the Canon Episcopi, which instructed Christian clerics through all those years that -- in cases where sorcery or commerce with the devil was charged but could not be proven -- it was the accuser, not the accused, who was to suffer the penalty for those crimes. Needless to say, this held false charges to a minimum. All that changed after 1484, when an ambitious but ethically challenged Dominican friar and embezzler by the name of Heinrich Kramer managed to convince Pope Innocent VIII to set the Holy Office of the Inquisition onto the witches, using torture to extract confessions, authorizing anonymous accusations without any right for the accused to face her accuser, and granting the soon-busy witch-hunters the rights to seize and divide the estates of the accused (who were always found guilty), an invitation to systematic legal looting so foul that it was never allowed again in Western history ... until our current War on Drugs, of course. As many as 9 million persons -- some doubtless practitioners of the Old Craft, but many, especially in later years, just as doubtless falsely accused -- were burned or hanged before the burning times faded away with a kind of embarrassed shrug in the early 1700s. The crime of which they were accused? Worshipping a female deity, a goddess of the earth, and her male consort, the goat-horned male god of fertility. Christian clerics, themselves mostly illiterate, called this female deity "the abomination," which has subsequently been interpreted to mean the horned devil of Hebrew tradition. But practitioners of a fertility cult would have had little reason to mock the late-comer Christianity by hanging crosses upside down or reciting masses backwards. "Satanism," to the extent that it ever existed (and I suspect more black masses were chanted on London film sets in the 1960s and '70s than anywhere in the four centuries preceding), is a very different thing. # # # Why should we care about the fate of the witches? For starters, it appears the witches stressed not the superiority of either sex over the other, but rather a balance between male and female principles -- an obvious notion for early agriculturalists trying to come to a metaphorical understanding of the germination of crops in the "mother" earth thanks to the intervention of those primeval "male" agencies, the sun and the rain. But the culture which destroyed the witches was not merely male-dominated. The history of our European ancestors of the 16th and 17th centuries presents a spectacle of bloodthirsty intolerance, a perverse catalogue of self-flagellation and repulsion at sexuality which found outlet only in the frenzied drive to conquer and enslave both the natural world and any other culture that presented itself. No matter how we may celebrate their competitive superiority from a safe distance, this was clearly a bunch of sick puppies. Was it the plagues, which quite often left the continent literally in the hands of teenagers? Whatever the reason, using their superior technology of sail and cannon, and helped mightily by bacteriological allies to which they had developed at least partial immunity, the Europeans didn't merely conquer the indigenous populations of the Americas, they ruthlessly eradicated whole cultures, and with them any medical or other knowledge they might have had to offer, sweeping all aside as the "spawn of the devil." Meantime, European women were being stripped of their property and other rights (many "witches," curiously, were widows of independent means), at precisely the time when their presense in the councils of church and state might have maintained some semblance of sanity. The Europeans of the time adopted little of our hypocritical modern-day pretense of being horrified at "drug use" per se -- they happily imported coffee, tobacco, opium, and cocaine. In fact, they forced the opium trade on China when it proved to be the only thing for which the Chinese would trade silver bullion. But while they reveled in novel forms of drunkenness, what did horrify those brave conquerors was the use of any hallucinogenic substance as a means to religious revelation, a superstitious dread of alternative paths to spiritual enlightenment which still hangs on in our aforementioned and thoroughly irrational "War on Drugs." (Which drug is involved in more incidents of spouse battery and inter-family murder by a factor of millions-to-1: alcohol or LSD? Which will get you 20 years in the federal pen, while the other now comes in convenient "wide-mouth 12-packs"?) The wholesale eradication of the cultures of the Aztecs and the Incas was justified not because of their practice of slavery and ritual slaughter -- Pizarro and Cortes would have found those familiar enough -- but because they were found to be using peyotl, hallucinogenic mushrooms, and ololiuhqui (a variety of morning glory seed) in their religious rituals, sure signs of "witchcraft," and coincidentally a method of seeking direct revelations from the gods which really delivered the goods -- hardly fair competition for the modest little Spanish communion wafer. Why did the conquistadors relate such practices to the witches back home? Because the witches, too, in a triumph of empirical science (Northern Europe has no reliably safe natural hallucinogens), had found ways to turn such normally deadly poisons as henbane, monkshood, and belladonna into an externally-applied ointment which would promote religious revelation by inducing a sensation of flying, followed by ecstatic visions. (The stuff worked best when applied to the mucous membranes with a smooth wooden rod or staff -- the "witch's broomstick" of our modern Halloween.) This was the great evil of the witches, and the justification for destroying millennia of the (start ital)materia medica(end ital) which they had gathered -- the traditional folk knowledge of medicinal plants which was largely destroyed with the Wise Women of 16th and 17th century Europe, and which we are only painfully piecing together again today. # # # It's commonly held that this order of midwives and herbal healers were a superstitious lot, rejecting the more "scientific" advances of the academically trained doctors of their time. The truth is just the opposite. What could be more scientific than carefully observing and noting the effects of medicinal herbs over a period of generations? What could be a more superstitious pile of nonsense than the theories of the 2nd century quack Galen, whose theory that health is dominated by the "four humours" remained gospel for centuries, refined with the addition of harsh purgatives and the exquisite nonsense of blood-letting? So fatal was the standard practice of medicine in the centuries after the witches were eliminated that most leading statesmen of the time -- George Washington included -- died while being bled by doctors. (Washington woke up with a sore throat at the age of 67, and died within 48 hours after receiving a cathartic enema, being dosed with poisonous mercury and antimony, and having literally half his blood -- four pints -- drained from his body, all in keeping with the best medical advice of the day.) All three of Louis XVI's elder brothers were killed by the blood-letting of physicians during youthful illnesses. The last direct heir to the Bourbon throne was preserved only after the queen mother bundled him away to a locked room and refused on pain of death to let any of the court physicians have at him. Superstition? Ask most modern patients whether they would rather be injected with a purified white extract, or swallow a tea made from the same herb, and see whether there isn't a "superstitious" preference for the power of the magic syringe or even for surgery over the remedy in its naturally-occurring form, even when the latter offers better control of dosage and side effects. Chew up a bunch of bug-eaten leaves? How primitive! The ancient Egyptians were fighting infection with fruit molds as early as the date of the Ebers papyrus, but thousands had to die of pneumonia, puerperal fever and meningitis, all through the late Middle Ages and right through the 19th century, before Fleming could get anyone to take another look at penicillin. It was with similar reluctance -- and not until 1795, when Napoleon seemed likely to put them all out of business unless they got practical in a hurry -- that the established brotherhood of "scientific" physicians finally acknowledged that the "old wives' remedy," lemon juice, was a better cure for naval scurvy than all their acids and caustic salts put together. # # # This is the tradition of ignorance, intolerance, and futility which we honor when we dress up our children to ridicule warty old witches, or when we protest (as parents groups in Le Mesa, Calif. and elsewhere continue to do every year) that Roald Dahls' book "The Witches" should be banned from school libraries because it "portrays witches as ordinary-looking women." Only the dimming effects of time -- and the fact that the Inquisition pretty much got them all -- render this outrage acceptable. To find a modern parallel, imagine the (fully appropriate) public outcry if it were discovered that some small town in Bavaria, from which for some undisclosed reason all the Jewish families disappeared in 1942, had since decided to launch a new Halloween custom, in which many of the town's blonde-haired little children were dressed up in yarmulkes and artificially large beaked noses, and sent out to play pranks and demand loot under the guise of being "nasty little Jews." Imagine further that the more religious local townfolk demanded the removal of certain children's books from the local library, because they depicted Jews as "people or ordinary human appearance." A healthy skepticism about many of our modern-day "witches" and some of their New Age mumbo jumbo may be in order ... though surely it's not up to us to choose which of their exotic notions it's "acceptable" to explore. But shall we extend our inherited intolerance to the many serious researchers now trying to rediscover the healing properties of plants, to overcome centuries of medical libel designed to convince us that mild-mannered natural remedies which can take weeks to rebuild our immunities are not worth our time, that the only valuable medicines are purified (and thus patentable) toxins that kill "bad" cells in a test tube, no matter how much damage they cause the "host organism" in the process? Excepting the odd mountain hamlet in Gwynedd, the Tirol, and the Hebrides, our direct links to the Wise Women of old are probably lost for good. But rediscovering their worldview, a beneficent vision of humankind inextricably balanced in nature's mandala, is a journey well worth beginning anew -- perhaps even on the night of the Samhain moon. # # # Vin Suprynowicz is the assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas Review-Journal. Readers may contact him via e-mail at vin at lvrj.com. The web sites for the Suprynowicz column are at http://www.infomagic.com/liberty/vinyard.htm, and http://www.nguworld.com/vindex/. Watch for Vin's book, "Send in the Waco Killers," coming from Huntington Press in February, 1999. The column is syndicated in the United States and Canada via Mountain Media Syndications, P.O. Box 4422, Las Vegas Nev. 89127. *** Vin Suprynowicz, vin at lvrj.com The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it. -- John Hay, 1872 The most difficult struggle of all is the one within ourselves. Let us not get accustomed and adjusted to these conditions. The one who adjusts ceases to discriminate between good and evil. He becomes a slave in body and soul. Whatever may happen to you, remember always: Don't adjust! Revolt against the reality! -- Mordechai Anielewicz, Warsaw, 1943 * * * --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Tue Oct 27 06:41:50 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 22:41:50 +0800 Subject: IP: Look Who's Minding The Store Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Delivered-To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 05:13:01 -0500 (EST) To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com From: softwar at us.net (CharlesSmith) Subject: IP: Look Who's Minding The Store Sender: owner-ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Precedence: list Reply-To: softwar at us.net (CharlesSmith) http://www.worldnetdaily.com/smith/981027_cs_look_whos_mindi.shtml William Reinsch is the Under Secretary for Export Administration (BXA) from the U.S. Commerce Department. Mr. Reinsch has been with the Commerce Department since 1994, starting his service under Ron Brown. As head of BXA, Reinsch is charged with administering and enforcing American high-tech export control policies and anti-boycott laws. Reinsch controls billions of dollars in American technology exports from his position at BXA. For example, Reinsch controls high-speed computers, advanced secure communications systems and encryption software. According to the Commerce Department, Reinsch's job also includes helping "Russia and other newly emerging nations develop effective export controls systems and convert their defense industries to civilian production." Interestingly, Mr. Reinsch has zero experience in either technical matters or military affairs. Reinsch's only qualification is that he was an aide to Senator Rockefeller and former Senator Heniz. This is quite unusual for a person charged with such an export job involving the international "defense" industry. According to the Commerce Department, Reinsch's only business experience consists of "President of the Saint Mark Elderly Housing Corporation." It is certain that Reinsch's business experience running rental housing for the aged has little application toward the export of advanced defense related equipment to Russia and China such as super-computers. Yet, during Mr. Reinsch's tenure a wide range of advanced technology has been shipped outright to China, India and Russia. I once had the opportunity to ask Mr. Reinsch about one specific transfer he worked on in 1995 for Loral. According to Commerce documentation, Mr. Reinsch exchanged a series of highly classified memos with Commerce lawyer Bettie Baca on the export of Loral GLOBALSTAR satellites to be launched by the Russians. President Clinton signed the waiver for Loral to launch from the former Soviet Union in July 1996. Clinton's waiver included the transfer of encrypted telemetry control systems to China for the GLOBALSTAR satellites. I cornered Bill Reinsch in April 1998 at the Rayburn Congressional office building after a conference on President Clinton's encryption policy. At first, Mr. Reinsch claimed he did not author the documents on Loral satellite exports. I then presented an official list of items from the U.S. Commerce Department that showed he indeed did author the 1995 Loral memos. At this point Reinsch's face went pale and he ran from the room. I gave chase, demanding answers with tape recorder in hand, attracting the attention of several dozen Congressional staffers and a select few from the press as witnesses. Reinsch, however, was faster. He pushed past the crowded entrance and dashed down the Congressional hallway, running in full stride in his three-piece suit. Since then, Mr. Reinsch has refused all requests for an interview. Until recently, Reinsch controlled commercial satellite exports. President Clinton passed the authority to control satellite exports to the Commerce Department by executive order in 1996. Republican legislation signed by President Clinton in October 1998 puts that authority back to the State Department and the Defense Department. Another example of Mr. Reinsch and his experience with the defense industry through elderly housing is the export of high speed computers to Russian and Chinese nuclear weapons labs. In 1995 Bill Reinsch wrote a memo to Ron Brown detailing a secret meeting with a group of computer CEOs, consisting of Apple, AT&T, Compaq, Cray, Silicon Graphics, Digital Equipment Corporation, Tandem, Sun and Unisys. The group is called the CSPP or Computer Systems Policy Project. CSPP computer executives have backed Clinton since 1992 with big bucks. For example, Apple's chairman John Schully is a major donor to the Clinton campaigns and a long time supporter. In 1995 the CSPP lobby group was led by Ken Kay, an employee of Tony Podesta, the brother of White House advisor John Podesta. John Podesta is now Clinton's Chief of Staff. In 1995, John Podesta worked at the White House running encryption and super computer policy. During the same period of time, the CSPP and Clinton officials began a series of classified briefings on encryption and super computer export policy. In 1995 IBM and Silicon Graphics sold super-computers directly to Russian Atomic weapon labs. IBM has since been fined $8.5 million on the $7 million sale. In fact, Commerce spokesman Eugene Cotilli pointed out in October 1998 that the Commerce Department investigation led to the conviction. Of course, Commerce did not start investigating until the Russian minister in charge of MINATOM (Ministry of Atomics) announced publicly the U.S. computers would be used for nuclear weapons research. Cotilli also did not deny that there is NO investigation of CSPP member Silicon Graphics and their sale of four super computers to Russian nuclear engineers at the Chelyabinsk-70 weapons lab in the fall of 1996. Thus, while IBM is convicted - Clinton supporter and Podesta associate client Silicon Graphics remains uninvestigated. In 1998, White House Special Counsel to the President Michael B. Waitzkin wrote "In January 1997, Mr. Podesta resigned his part-time position at Podesta Associates and returned to the White House as Deputy Chief of Staff. Mr. Podesta was requested by Senior Administration Officials to undertake certain responsibilities with respect to encryption policy. He did not, however, undertake these responsibilities until he received specific approval from the White House Counsel's Office with respect to his involvement in these matters." Thus, Mr. Podesta sought and obtained approval for his conflict of interest in 1997. Whether John and Tony Podesta shared a conflict of interest in 1995 has so far remained unresolved but not uninvestigated. House investigators in the Cox/Dix committee and on the House National Security Committee have sought information on the CSPP and John Podesta. Mr. John Podesta refuses to be interviewed. The fact is, Podesta Associate employee Ken Kay made thousands of dollars in donations to the DNC in 1994 and 1995. Yet, according to CSPP lawyer C. Boyden Gray, Ken Kay only donated $2,500 of which $1,250 was returned by the DNC in the form of a painting. According to official Federal Election Commission records, none of Mr. Kay's donations totaled to $2,500 or $1,250. Mr. Kay also will not respond to interview requests. The CSPP is, in part, still funded by the taxpayer. The CSPP is now helping the Clinton administration design the next generation internet and getting paid to do it. Obviously, many of the CSPP members will benefit financially as each new Internet contract is offered and they sell more equipment. In 1998 CSPP lawyer C. Boyden Gray claimed that official Clinton secret meetings began in November 1995. Reinsch, however, clearly wrote to Ron Brown about an earlier secret meeting in June of 1995, when Tony Podesta employed Ken Kay and John Podesta was charged with computer oversight policy. The materials given to CSPP members at the White House on encryption are considered so sensitive that they have no public classification level such as secret or top secret. The true secrets of Clinton's encryption policy involve hidden back doors and exploitable features built into computer products. The secrets given to CSPP members involved classified means of electronic surveillance to be built inside domestic products by the manufacturers. The Clinton administration offered billions of tax dollars as incentive to bug every fax, phone and computer built. Clinton offered military chip designs backed by decades of cold war research. The CSPP was given access to military algorithms and taxpayer funded programs as incentives to adopt a secret "back-door" concept for computers and communications. William Reinsch, John Podesta, Ken Kay and the DNC all refuse to comment on Bill Clinton's secret project to bug America and the world. =================================================================== William Reinsch & CSPP Source Document index - http://www.softwar.net/reinsch.html ================================================================ 1 if by land, 2 if by sea. Paul Revere - encryption 1775 Charles R. Smith SOFTWAR http://www.softwar.net softwar at softwar.net Pcyphered SIGNATURE: 3B7CB41BBBE190B12082FA2032662C126449AADEFF70F107EFB810A50A8E6892 2EFAA5B363ABEB33D85F23BCBE60C4416359D229F36E4703348090FDC45794FC 7C2CC1D8D72F6184 ================================================================ SOFTWAR EMAIL NEWSLETTER 10/27/1998 *** to unsubscribe reply with "unsubscribe" as subject *** ================================================================ **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Tue Oct 27 06:42:30 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 22:42:30 +0800 Subject: Moore is Moore Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Delivered-To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com X-Sender: believer at telepath.com Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 05:38:30 -0600 To: believer at telepath.com From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Atomic Chip Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Precedence: list Reply-To: believer at telepath.com Tuesday 27 Oct, 1998 NOW - THE ATOMIC CHIP Scientists at the Technical University of Denmark said today they have created an atom-sized computer chip, in which a single hydrogen atom jumping to and fro generates a binary code. And the technique operates at room temperatures. It means a million CDs could fit onto one disc. But it is not expected to become commercial for some years. The university's Microelectronics Centre, which carried out the research, is at http://www.mic.dtu.dk **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Tue Oct 27 06:48:28 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 22:48:28 +0800 Subject: Oct. 30 column -- playing out the clock Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Resent-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 23:24:55 -0700 Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 22:16:50 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: vin at dali.lvrj.com Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vinsends at ezlink.com From: Vin_Suprynowicz at lvrj.com (Vin Suprynowicz) Subject: Oct. 30 column -- playing out the clock Resent-From: vinsends at ezlink.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/579 X-Loop: vinsends at ezlink.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vinsends-request at ezlink.com FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE DATED OCT. 30, 1998 THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz Gamely playing out the clock in a hopeless contest Every even-numbered year, literally scores of candidates come trooping through the offices of the newspaper where I work, seeking our endorsement for every office from constable or justice of the peace, to governor or U.S. senator. Playing out the game by the established rules, we cross-question them on their little memorized spiels about how they "respect the Second Amendment" and "want to make government more efficient and more responsive to the people's needs." By and large, those candidates who start out insisting they "respect the Second Amendment" will quickly agree with any new hare-brained scheme you can propose to register or restrict where folks can carry guns, or to ban people from owning "really dangerous" semi-automatic weapons or concealable handguns, for which "obviously no one can have a legitimate use." (Uzis seem to be a favorite weapon for which "no one can have a legitimate use" this year. The only ones available in local gun shops are semi-autos, of course -- essentially a 9mm handgun with a shoulder stock.) Naturally, those who "want to make government more efficient" can rarely name a single government office or program they'd close. But every year, a few candidates show up who actually understand a little economics, have read the Constitution, and volunteer that the purpose of government is to protect individual rights. Pinching ourselves and wondering how they "slipped through," every year we celebrate these few brave souls in our editorial pages. Many people vote for them. And then what happens? Taxes go up, more laws are passed, government grows more intrusive, and our rights are eroded faster than ever. How come? Well, of course, not all the candidates we endorse get elected. A certain number of incumbent redistributionists are "automatically" returned by the voters, no matter what we say or do. Fine: A newspaper has no dictatorial powers, nor should it. But what's more discouraging is how little difference these well-intentioned people seem to make even if they do get elected to the state legislature, or the Congress, or wherever they're headed. I've been in the newspaper business for 25 years. Call me a cynic -- I'll respond that it's simply an objective observation: No matter who we elect, it doesn't matter any more. Government is a machine that crunches anyone you send into it into a cog or gear of the required shape and size to keep the machine running and growing. Why are fewer and fewer folks registering to vote, or showing up at the polls? Vote for the most radical of Libertarians, he will get 4 percent of the vote, and nothing will change. They still won't let him into the TV debates next year, and no corporation will hand him the protection money which we still daintily call "campaign contributions." Vote for (start ital)and elect(end ital) the most radical-sounding "less government" Republican you can find, and the best result will be a government that grows at the rate of 7 percent next year, instead of 8 percent. You will still have to get fingerprinted to obtain your new driver's license, there will still be armed soldiers at the airports strip-searching people "to prevent terrorism and drug-running" (starting next year), and your take-home pay will still be a smaller percentage of your gross earnings next year than it was last year. Oh, these things are never accomplished overnight, say the eternal optimists. Besides, these are all just a bunch of cynical generalities. OK: Let's get specific. in my next column, I will present you with five or six races in which the Las Vegas Review-Journal -- largest newspaper in Nevada -- has made loud, strident, forceful endorsements in Election '98. The five or six candidates the newspaper endorsed may astound you with just how dedicated to personal liberties and limited government they sound, given that they are all "electable" (that is to say -- from one of the "major parties.") But if each voter could personally interview every candidate on his or her Nov. 3 ballot for half-an-hour apiece, not allowing them to get away with any slick double-talk, I daresay you too could find and vote for five or six "viable" candidates in your own town and state who sound just as "libertarian." Then you too could have the experience of seeing them go to the capital and vote for new tax hikes and more gun control laws, vote to send away harmless minority kids for even longer terms in the pen for "getting high" on harmless vegetable extracts, authorize more restrictions of our economic freedom and invasions of our privacy, and then give you a look of shock when you tell them you're disappointed. "But that bill had some good stuff in it!" they will insist. "No bill is perfect. You always have to compromise on something to get things done. We had to make our gun licensing rules just a little stricter, in the hopes our permits will now be recognized by other states. And as for the fingerprinting for the new driver's license, most people favor that, since it will make it much harder for someone else to cash your checks if they're stolen." Next time: five excellent and "viable" candidates, and why voting for them probably won't make a bit of difference at all. Vin Suprynowicz is the assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas Review-Journal. Readers may contact him via e-mail at vin at lvrj.com. *** Vin Suprynowicz, vin at lvrj.com The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it. -- John Hay, 1872 The most difficult struggle of all is the one within ourselves. Let us not get accustomed and adjusted to these conditions. The one who adjusts ceases to discriminate between good and evil. He becomes a slave in body and soul. Whatever may happen to you, remember always: Don't adjust! Revolt against the reality! -- Mordechai Anielewicz, Warsaw, 1943 * * * --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Tue Oct 27 06:50:06 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 22:50:06 +0800 Subject: SNET: [FP] Microsoft puts smart card on table Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text X-Sender: st005940 at brandywine.otago.ac.nz Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 16:08:19 +1300 To: snetnews at world.std.com From: "ScanThisNews" (by way of jeremy.compton at stonebow.otago.ac.nz (Jeremy Compton)) Subject: SNET: [FP] Microsoft puts smart card on table Sender: snetnews-approval at world.std.com Precedence: list Reply-To: snetnews at world.std.com -> SNETNEWS Mailing List ====================================================================== SCAN THIS NEWS 10/26/98 Microsoft puts smart card on table http://www.news.com/News/Item/0%2C4%2C27923%2C00.html?dd.ne.tx.fs6.1026 By Tim Clark Staff Writer, CNET News.com October 26, 1998 Update: Microsoft tomorrow will announce an extension of its Windows operating system for smart cards, a company spokesman said today. Smart cards, which have very limited memory and processing power, are about the size of a credit card and embedded with a computer chip. The technology is used for storing data on mobile phones, banking online, and paying for phone calls and public transit fares. Microsoft vice president Paul Maritz is scheduled to announce the operating system initiative tomorrow at Cartes 98, a conference on smart card technology in Paris. A new system from Microsoft could bring more acceptance of smart cards in the United States. Smart cards have been used in Europe, which holds more than 80 percent of the market, but have been slow to progress in America, at least in part beacuse of the lack of a standard operating system. Microsoft is bidding to enter that arena, but Sun Microsystems is already active in that space with its JavaCard specification. In addition, Mondex, an e-cash company controlled by MasterCard has its MultOS system designed so cards with different operating systems can work together. The company's interest in smart cards parallels its strategy with Windows CE, a stripped-down version of its PC operating system for consumer electronics devices. In April, Microsoft announced a version of Windows CE for automobiles, gas pumps, industrial controllers, and other uses. The smart-card initiative seeks to go after even smaller, cheaper devices--particularly when rival Sun is targeting the same business. The Microsoft spokesman said card developers could use existing Windows tools to work with their software. The annual Paris show is a major showcase for the smart card industry. Schlumberger, a major French manufacturer of smart cards, today unveiled new software for its cards that transforms a smart card into a security device to identify its holder. Many PC makers have said they will produce machines with smart-card readers built in, a capability that Microsoft has provided in its desktop PC operating systems. Microsoft has a certification and logo program that indicates smart card systems work with Windows NT. ======================================================================= Don't believe anything you read on the Net unless: 1) you can confirm it with another source, and/or 2) it is consistent with what you already know to be true. ======================================================================= Reply to: ======================================================================= To subscribe to the free Scan This News newsletter, send a message to and type "subscribe scan" in the BODY. Or, to be removed type "unsubscribe scan" in the message BODY. For additional instructions see www.efga.org/about/maillist.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "Scan This News" is Sponsored by S.C.A.N. Host of the "FIGHT THE FINGERPRINT!" web page: www.networkusa.org/fingerprint.shtml ======================================================================= -> Send "subscribe snetnews " to majordomo at world.std.com -> Posted by: "ScanThisNews" (by way of jeremy.compton at stonebow.otago.ac.nz (Jeremy Compton)) --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Tue Oct 27 07:13:02 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 23:13:02 +0800 Subject: Oct. 29 column -- twilight of an era Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Resent-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 23:21:30 -0700 Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 22:13:20 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: vin at dali.lvrj.com Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vinsends at ezlink.com From: Vin_Suprynowicz at lvrj.com (Vin Suprynowicz) Subject: Oct. 29 column -- twilight of an era Resent-From: vinsends at ezlink.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/578 X-Loop: vinsends at ezlink.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vinsends-request at ezlink.com FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE DATED OCT. 29, 1998 THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz Twilight of the Gods We seem to be entering the twilight of an era. Changes in our society -- consider the erosion of personal liberties, and even the notion that sticking up for our personal liberties is a good thing ("He wouldn't give his Social Security number when he tried to register to vote? He owned an unregistered firearm? He wouldn't volunteer any information on his tax form? Then he deserved whatever happened to him. I'm sorry they burned up the wife and baby, too, but he brought it on himself") -- have been occurring incrementally over the past 86 years. Hence, the popular notion that future change will continue to be equally gradual. Even "legitimate" Libertarian Party political candidates now patiently explain to me that since the current police/welfare state took 60 to 90 years to put in place, there's no sense alarming anyone by shouting radical ideas about legalizing heroin or machine guns. No, no. These "modern" Libertarians -- respectable middle-aged entrepreneurs in respectable coats and striped ties -- patiently explain that they only wish to move us back toward slightly less government, slightly lower taxes, and the restoration of a few personal liberties at a time. Nothing for anyone to get frightened about. The problem is, neither human nor geologic history seem to bear out this notion of a pendulum swinging steadily back and forth. The era of the swamp-dwelling dinosaurs seems to have continued for hundreds of thousands of years without much change. But ice core samples and ocean sediments now indicate the freeze that killed them may have taken as few as five years. Social and political change in France was pretty gradual from 1480 to 1780. Would one thus have been safe in assuming that things wouldn't be likely to change much from 1780 and 1795? A whole lot of folks went to the guillotine based on that assumption. Our ability to sense the imminent end of an era is seriously hampered by a part of human nature modern psychiatry calls "denial." The loss of familiar things -- even if we know in our hearts they are rotten -- is frightening. Thus, we tend to hope the signs are wrong, and to cling to what is familiar. Is this another one of these rants about how the inability of our computers to process the date "2000" is going to cause an instant reversion to the Stone Age? No -- though such computer malfunctions and shutdowns certainly will occur, creating pockets of panic and accelerated uncertainty about just how reliable our "foolproof" government and economic "systems" really are. But the number of things that are rotten in America -- and thus in "Western civilization" -- has simply grown too large. And as each one fails, it will help to pull down the next. Large dams do not develop small leaks. We could talk about the imminent collapse of the largest, most profligate, most unproductive and socially poisonous make-work social engineering scheme ever devised, the mandatory government youth propaganda camps (you may call them "public schools.") When the cost of things that don't work exceeds what people can pay, they just walk away. That's why the stone temples of the Maya were abandoned long before Cortez showed up, and why most of the nuclear submarines of the Russian Navy now sit rusting at their piers. There was never any popular vote to "shut down the Soviet Navy." Everyone just went home. We could talk about the inevitable failure of the little Dutch boy sticking his fingers in the financial dikes of Mexico, Russia, Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, and Brazil -- the International Monetary Fund, the failure of which is likely to soon bring down another 20th century institution which we have come to assume could never fail, the vast leveraged Ponzi scheme known as "government chartered fractional reserve banking." (Imagine an evil wizard made the stock market disappear, along with your stockbroker and your bank. For awhile, you might wonder what you would live on in your "retirement." Then it would dawn on you: What "retirement"? "Retirement" at a fixed age was a notion introduced by the 19th century socialists, who believed there was a fixed number of jobs in the world (duh), and that the only way to guarantee work to the young was therefore to "pension off" the oldsters. "Retirement" is a completely artificial invention.) I could talk about the schools or the banks, scrambling around insisting it's not their fault; it's our fault for being too "greedy" to hand them ever-larger "bailouts." But I won't. Instead, since it's election time, I will talk about why the great experiment called "participatory democracy" is failing. Next time -- interviews with virtually every candidate in Southern Nevada produced five or six outstanding prospects this year: Why voting for them isn't likely to make a bit of difference. Vin Suprynowicz is the assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas Review-Journal. Readers may contact him via e-mail at vin at lvrj.com. The web sites for the Suprynowicz column are at http://www.infomagic.com/liberty/vinyard.htm, and http://www.nguworld.com/vindex/. The column is syndicated in the United States and Canada via Mountain Media Syndications, P.O. Box 4422, Las Vegas Nev. 89127. *** Vin Suprynowicz, vin at lvrj.com The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it. -- John Hay, 1872 The most difficult struggle of all is the one within ourselves. Let us not get accustomed and adjusted to these conditions. The one who adjusts ceases to discriminate between good and evil. He becomes a slave in body and soul. Whatever may happen to you, remember always: Don't adjust! Revolt against the reality! -- Mordechai Anielewicz, Warsaw, 1943 * * * --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From nobody at replay.com Tue Oct 27 08:01:23 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 00:01:23 +0800 Subject: IP: Uncle Sam Wants Spooks. Message-ID: <199810271521.QAA06953@replay.com> At 02:04 PM 10/26/98 -0500, Robert Hettinga wrote: > "We teach a concept called open source and > public domain intelligence -- that is, taking what > is in the public domain and creating new > knowledge by analysis and interpretation," he So does John Young, EFF, FAS, etc. > Applying for a job with the CIA is easy: Send a > resume. The CIA scans the resumes it gets Applying for a job with the NSA is easier. Just fax your resume. Doesn't matter where. From nobody at replay.com Tue Oct 27 08:03:04 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 00:03:04 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199810271521.QAA06961@replay.com> At 11:42 AM 10/26/98 -0800, Michael Motyka wrote: >> How does this differ from the motives of your ordinary politician? >> >> Post-revolution, will there be caliber limitations when hunting them? > >Hunt all you want. The post-revolution utopia will be administered by >persons of the same mentality as those we have administering our >Democratic Republic now. They will use the same if not more advanced >techniques to acquire and maintain power. "Nature abhors a vacuum", >right? Most of nature is a very high quality vacuum, actually. Governments have not always been so parasite-infested; this disease progresses slowly, numbingly, unnoticed, like leprosy. From nobody at replay.com Tue Oct 27 08:09:39 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 00:09:39 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199810271524.QAA07247@replay.com> At 02:43 PM 10/26/98 -0400, Robert A. Costner wrote: >At 01:15 PM 10/26/98 -0500, Duncan Frissell wrote: >>9. "I do not posses any government-issued photo ID and thus cannot travel >>to the location stated in the subpoena. > >ROTFLMAO... > >This last one is too funny to not use. I don't have a subpoena, but I can >just see myself writing back explaining this and requesting assistance with >a plane flight to solve this problem. Actually you don't need state id to fly, legally. But the airlines will hassle you and not put your bags aboard til you are. There are references on the net to flying without state id. From dporter at denova.com Tue Oct 27 09:44:23 1998 From: dporter at denova.com (D. Porter) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 01:44:23 +0800 Subject: files (was: Re: dbts, etc.) Message-ID: <199810271107.39975@denova.com> Steve Bellovin (smb at research.att.com) wrote... > . . . to trace the the perturbations caused to the system. . . > The more anonymity, and the more privacy cut-outs, the > harder this is. . . > To be sure, one can assert that the philosophical > gains -- privacy, libertarianism, what have you -- are > sufficiently important that this price is worth paying. . . Steve, as you point out most of us are driven primarily by practical concerns. This is a philosophy: pragmatism. Beyond mind exercise, philosophy is valuable exactly to the extent it is practical. DBS increases freedom. Increased freedom is practical because it reduces risks -- of confiscation, imprisonment, and death -- and because it usually increases efficiency. All of these pragmatic considerations seem much more important than the ease of maintenance, at least to me. Doug From jf_avon at citenet.net Tue Oct 27 10:15:45 1998 From: jf_avon at citenet.net (Jean-Francois Avon) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 02:15:45 +0800 Subject: files (was: Re: dbts, etc.) Message-ID: <199810271744.MAA12393@cti06.citenet.net> My 1.43 US cents (hey, two canadian cents aren't worth much nowadays!) On 27 Oct 98 10:52:00, D. Porter wrote: >Steve, as you point out most of us are driven primarily by practical >concerns. This is a philosophy: pragmatism. Beyond mind exercise, >philosophy is valuable exactly to the extent it is practical. Pragmatism, as far as philosophy structure is concerned, is opportunistic in the sense that it gets a free ride on other's failures to come up with basic premises that are compatible with reality... >DBS increases freedom. Increased freedom is practical because it reduces >risks -- of confiscation, imprisonment, and death -- and because it >usually increases efficiency. All of these pragmatic considerations seem >much more important than the ease of maintenance, at least to me. Well, this is a point not shared at all by the collectivistic-oriented philosophies, which places the "good of the collective", whatever it may mean, above the values you mentionned. And to deprive them of the ability of imposing confiscation, imprisonment and death it to cut them out of their tools... Ciao jfa "The tree of liberty must be watered periodically with the blood of tyrants...." "Both oligarch and tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms." -- Aristotle, "Politics" From cmefford at video.avwashington.com Tue Oct 27 10:44:00 1998 From: cmefford at video.avwashington.com (Chip Mefford) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 02:44:00 +0800 Subject: your mail In-Reply-To: <199810271524.QAA07247@replay.com> Message-ID: Where possible, fuk a bunch of airlines anyway. Travel by train is a lot more enjoyable, relaxing, fun. Folks that travel by train could fly, but would preferr to enjoy the ride, cause it ain't no cheaper, except, !! you can pay with cash and show no id and go where you would like in the lower 48. anonymously. On Tue, 27 Oct 1998, Anonymous wrote: > At 02:43 PM 10/26/98 -0400, Robert A. Costner wrote: > >At 01:15 PM 10/26/98 -0500, Duncan Frissell wrote: > >>9. "I do not posses any government-issued photo ID and thus cannot travel > >>to the location stated in the subpoena. > > > >ROTFLMAO... > > > >This last one is too funny to not use. I don't have a subpoena, but I can > >just see myself writing back explaining this and requesting assistance with > >a plane flight to solve this problem. > > Actually you don't need state id to fly, legally. But the airlines will > hassle you and not put your bags aboard til you are. There > are references on the net to flying without state id. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From ogrenivek at yahoo.com Tue Oct 27 11:53:39 1998 From: ogrenivek at yahoo.com (Joel O'Connor) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 03:53:39 +0800 Subject: your mail Message-ID: <19981027190715.184.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com> I traveled by train all the way to Florida from Rhode Island once. 24 hours straight it took man and I swore I would never do it again. 40-50 people per car and basically one bathroom per car. Come morning time man, the lines for the bathrooms stretched out of the cars. Screw that, I could have flown and made it in 3 hours. Plus it's easier for the gov't to stop trains and search them, I'd rather go with the flight. ---Chip Mefford wrote: > > > > Where possible, > > fuk a bunch of airlines anyway. > > Travel by train is a lot more enjoyable, relaxing, fun. > Folks that travel by train could fly, but would > preferr to enjoy the ride, cause it ain't no cheaper, > > except, !! > > you can pay with cash and show no id and go > where you would like in the lower 48. > > anonymously. > > On Tue, 27 Oct 1998, Anonymous wrote: > > > At 02:43 PM 10/26/98 -0400, Robert A. Costner wrote: > > >At 01:15 PM 10/26/98 -0500, Duncan Frissell wrote: > > >>9. "I do not posses any government-issued photo ID and thus cannot travel > > >>to the location stated in the subpoena. > > > > > >ROTFLMAO... > > > > > >This last one is too funny to not use. I don't have a subpoena, but I can > > >just see myself writing back explaining this and requesting assistance with > > >a plane flight to solve this problem. > > > > Actually you don't need state id to fly, legally. But the airlines will > > hassle you and not put your bags aboard til you are. There > > are references on the net to flying without state id. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > == Ogre bounces like sonar. . .Peace. Ogre _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From frissell at panix.com Tue Oct 27 12:08:36 1998 From: frissell at panix.com (Duncan Frissell) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 04:08:36 +0800 Subject: MIB Subponeas In-Reply-To: <4.0.2.19981026110245.03e27250@panix.com> Message-ID: <4.0.2.19981027112335.03c0c840@panix.com> At 02:43 PM 10/26/98 -0400, Robert A. Costner wrote: >At 01:15 PM 10/26/98 -0500, Duncan Frissell wrote: >>9. "I do not posses any government-issued photo ID and thus cannot travel >>to the location stated in the subpoena. > >ROTFLMAO... > >This last one is too funny to not use. I don't have a subpoena, but I can >just see myself writing back explaining this and requesting assistance with >a plane flight to solve this problem. I was glad I thought that one up yesterday. It can be used in all sorts of cases from future conscription notices to private travel demands that one wishes to avoid. Note that short of arrest, it is difficult for anyone else to force you to have a government issued photo ID in your possession. You can take all your stuff and Fedex it to your Swiss lawyer (or some friend) telling him to not give it to you for some period of time. You can burn your ID, throw it away, and not apply for replacements. There currently exists no means of applying for ID on your behalf if you don't do it (save for kids and those in custody). The beauty is that the authorities have created this requirement and it can be used against them. Previous techniques such as claiming lack of money can be satisfied with government travel tickets but ID requirements will be a tougher nut to crack. Maybe they'll tell you to take Amtrak or the Grey Dog. DCF From cmefford at video.avwashington.com Tue Oct 27 12:14:40 1998 From: cmefford at video.avwashington.com (Chip Mefford) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 04:14:40 +0800 Subject: your mail In-Reply-To: <19981027190715.184.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com> Message-ID: I've taken that same route, except up to no. Vermont rather than RI, I travelled anonymously, for an extra 50 bux, I had my own little private cabin, I was never searched, my bags were never xrayed by incompetent androids, was able to find company from the hordes that you describe to sit with me in my lil cabin and spend some time (wink wink, nudge nudge) and so forth. yeah, an entire day spent with a whole pile of folks can really be a horrible drag, and I'm told that travelling on the weekends thats what you can expect. But, shuffling in and out of Polizei Central, subjecting myself to xrays and potential cavity searches, showing ID to every bone head that demands it, just seems a little too kyrstalnachtish for my taste, I don't care if I EVER fly again. Its easier, less hassle, more anonymous to travel by train than it is to drive, or for that matter, walk. yes, its VERY easy for the SS to stop and search a train, but the plane is a forgone situation. By entering an airport, you've already consented to be stripped of nearly every right you thought you may have had. I had an experience like you describe travelling from Atlanta to DC by bus once when a young-un. I too, swore I'd never do it again, and I didn't, not till I mustered out of the military and they stuck me on a 10 hr busride to the nearest depot to go home, and yes, I still hated it. to each his own, take care chipper On Tue, 27 Oct 1998, Joel O'Connor wrote: > I traveled by train all the way to Florida from Rhode Island once. 24 > hours straight it took man and I swore I would never do it again. > 40-50 people per car and basically one bathroom per car. Come morning > time man, the lines for the bathrooms stretched out of the cars. > Screw that, I could have flown and made it in 3 hours. Plus it's > easier for the gov't to stop trains and search them, I'd rather go > with the flight. > > > > > ---Chip Mefford wrote: > > > > > > > > Where possible, > > > > fuk a bunch of airlines anyway. > > > > Travel by train is a lot more enjoyable, relaxing, fun. > > Folks that travel by train could fly, but would > > preferr to enjoy the ride, cause it ain't no cheaper, > > > > except, !! > > > > you can pay with cash and show no id and go > > where you would like in the lower 48. > > > > anonymously. > > > > On Tue, 27 Oct 1998, Anonymous wrote: > > > > > At 02:43 PM 10/26/98 -0400, Robert A. Costner wrote: > > > >At 01:15 PM 10/26/98 -0500, Duncan Frissell wrote: > > > >>9. "I do not posses any government-issued photo ID and thus > cannot travel > > > >>to the location stated in the subpoena. > > > > > > > >ROTFLMAO... > > > > > > > >This last one is too funny to not use. I don't have a subpoena, > but I can > > > >just see myself writing back explaining this and requesting > assistance with > > > >a plane flight to solve this problem. > > > > > > Actually you don't need state id to fly, legally. But the > airlines will > > > hassle you and not put your bags aboard til you are. There > > > are references on the net to flying without state id. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > == > Ogre bounces like sonar. . .Peace. > Ogre > > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > From ogrenivek at yahoo.com Tue Oct 27 12:15:49 1998 From: ogrenivek at yahoo.com (Joel O'Connor) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 04:15:49 +0800 Subject: your mail Message-ID: <19981027193249.14523.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com> That's cool man, I see your point. Guess I shouldn't knock it when I've only had one experience. It's true, I got on the train quicker than I've ever gotten on a flight and didn't face any harrassment. Actually, I faced more harrassment from my Gestapo math teacher in high school trying to board a bus than getting on the train. He looked at me and told me I was trouble and searched every crevice of my bag, personal being and space. "But doctor, both your hands on my shoulders. . ."you get the point and that's exactly what's happening to us each and every day. ---Chip Mefford wrote: > > > > I've taken that same route, except up > to no. Vermont rather than RI, > > I travelled anonymously, for an extra 50 bux, > I had my own little private cabin, I was never > searched, my bags were never xrayed by incompetent > androids, was able to find company from the > hordes that you describe to sit with me in my > lil cabin and spend some time (wink wink, nudge > nudge) and so forth. > > yeah, an entire day spent with a whole pile of > folks can really be a horrible drag, and I'm > told that travelling on the weekends thats > what you can expect. > > But, shuffling in and out of Polizei Central, > subjecting myself to xrays and potential > cavity searches, showing ID to every bone > head that demands it, just seems a little > too kyrstalnachtish for my taste, I don't care > if I EVER fly again. > > Its easier, less hassle, more anonymous to > travel by train than it is to drive, or > for that matter, walk. > > yes, its VERY easy for the SS > to stop and search a train, but the plane > is a forgone situation. By entering an > airport, you've already consented to be > stripped of nearly every right you thought > you may have had. > > I had an experience like you describe travelling > from Atlanta to DC by bus once when a young-un. > I too, swore I'd never do it again, and I didn't, > not till I mustered out of the military and they > stuck me on a 10 hr busride to the nearest > depot to go home, and yes, I still hated it. > > to each his own, > > take care > > chipper > > On Tue, 27 Oct 1998, Joel O'Connor wrote: > > > I traveled by train all the way to Florida from Rhode Island once. 24 > > hours straight it took man and I swore I would never do it again. > > 40-50 people per car and basically one bathroom per car. Come morning > > time man, the lines for the bathrooms stretched out of the cars. > > Screw that, I could have flown and made it in 3 hours. Plus it's > > easier for the gov't to stop trains and search them, I'd rather go > > with the flight. > > > > > > > > > > ---Chip Mefford wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Where possible, > > > > > > fuk a bunch of airlines anyway. > > > > > > Travel by train is a lot more enjoyable, relaxing, fun. > > > Folks that travel by train could fly, but would > > > preferr to enjoy the ride, cause it ain't no cheaper, > > > > > > except, !! > > > > > > you can pay with cash and show no id and go > > > where you would like in the lower 48. > > > > > > anonymously. > > > > > > On Tue, 27 Oct 1998, Anonymous wrote: > > > > > > > At 02:43 PM 10/26/98 -0400, Robert A. Costner wrote: > > > > >At 01:15 PM 10/26/98 -0500, Duncan Frissell wrote: > > > > >>9. "I do not posses any government-issued photo ID and thus > > cannot travel > > > > >>to the location stated in the subpoena. > > > > > > > > > >ROTFLMAO... > > > > > > > > > >This last one is too funny to not use. I don't have a subpoena, > > but I can > > > > >just see myself writing back explaining this and requesting > > assistance with > > > > >a plane flight to solve this problem. > > > > > > > > Actually you don't need state id to fly, legally. But the > > airlines will > > > > hassle you and not put your bags aboard til you are. There > > > > are references on the net to flying without state id. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > == > > Ogre bounces like sonar. . .Peace. > > Ogre > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > DO YOU YAHOO!? > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > == Ogre bounces like sonar. . .Peace. Ogre _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From tcmay at got.net Tue Oct 27 13:15:34 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 05:15:34 +0800 Subject: MIB Subponeas In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19981026144314.038c6020@rboc.net> Message-ID: At 8:36 AM -0800 10/27/98, Duncan Frissell wrote: >The beauty is that the authorities have created this requirement and it can >be used against them. Previous techniques such as claiming lack of money >can be satisfied with government travel tickets but ID requirements will be >a tougher nut to crack. Maybe they'll tell you to take Amtrak or the Grey >Dog. Here on the West Coast, they could perhaps suggest one take the Green Tortoise, a hippie-type bus that runs up and down the coast. However, one might then set off the drug-sniffing detectors/dogs at the courthouse. Duncan gave us an interesting list, but I suspect at least half of them would result in the judge saying, "Fine. Think about in your cell. I find you in contempt." I have a couple of questions about the subpoena process, though: * Is travel paid for? How? By spending hours completing forms in quadruplicate, or do they just cut a check for some per diem sort of payment? * What if one has pressing engagements? (Travel out of the country, an anniversary party, washing the dog?) * What if one shows up with no records and claims not to have them? * What about lawyer expenses? I know the line about "If you cannot afford one, one will be appointed for you," but I've never understood what test of "afford" is being used. If called before a grand jury, will they pay for a lawyer? (E.g., if I decide I can't "afford" to pay some shyster to interpret their legalese into ordinary English.) (I asssume there is some nonsense about indigence, but can they force someone to prove he has no money? What if he money, but he needs that $5000 for school tuition more than he needs to give it to Johnny Cockroach for a day's worth of shystering?) More soberly, this kind of subpoena could well nuke the Cypherpunks list, even the distributed node instance. If Igor Chudov, Lance Cottrell, and Jim Choate all have to fly to Seattle and face scrutiny, implied threats, and possible jail time for failing to jump when the Feds say jump, they may decide to stop acting as Fed magnets. Oh, and what if one shows up at the Federal Courthouse without any I.D.? As there are no mandatory I.D. laws, what can they do? (I had planned to test this one the last time I almost got called for jury duty. My planned retort was to be, "But I'm not driving a car here in the courthouse, so why would I need a driver's license? And, last I checked, this is still the United States, so why would I need a passport?") "I'm Tim May, and you can believe it or not. Maybe I'm a bum hired by Tim for a bottle of Ripple, maybe I'm some other Tim, maybe I'm an astrally projected Tim. Take your pick." --Tim May Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From ogrenivek at yahoo.com Tue Oct 27 13:33:55 1998 From: ogrenivek at yahoo.com (Joel O'Connor) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 05:33:55 +0800 Subject: Airline ID Checking (was: RE: your mail) Message-ID: <19981027204352.13039.rocketmail@send103.yahoomail.com> Who knows for sure anymore. Because of the "Anti-Terrorism" bill, it is required that security be beafed up. When they scan the ID, it is to check against their records that you are who you say you are. . .so they say. In actuality, they are tracing movements of people, so if the shit comes down, they will know where everyone is, no matter where you flew to. Even with trains, all's it will take is one bomb and you better believe security will be pumped up as high as it is with airlines. Who knows anymore, there's so much going on at every spectrum of this globe that the probability of keeping up with a minor fraction is hard enough. The gov't control's all major transportation routes, which control's movement and where everyone is at all times. Soon, there will be no where to run to. ---X wrote: > > Does anyone know what the airlines do with the info they collect off the ID? > Are they just noting whether the names match, or is it more sinister? > > When I was below legal drinking age (21 in my state) I would drive up to the > window (how barbaric! liquor sales to guys in cars!) and give the > sub-moronic guy my REAL ID under the assumption that: he expects it to say > something that proves I am over age, or else why would I be handing it to > him? [nicely enough, this shifts all of the risk of the transaction to him, > should it go wrong.] > > Similarly, if you booked a flight under the name Nevah Umind, when you hand > over a piece of ID, they look to see it says Nevah Umind (unless, of course, > your name happens to be Nevah Umind) and that's all they want, right? > > And if we all booked flights under the same name, then wouldn't that throw > 'em WAY off? Pick a name, DON'T scan your license in, DON'T edit it, DON'T > laminate it, and (for pete's sake!) DON'T use that name. Their querying > will tell them, "I have a match, he's okay" (These are not the droids you > are looking for, eh!) and away you go! > > X > > > ~> -----Original Message----- > ~> From: owner-cypherpunks at minder.net > ~> [mailto:owner-cypherpunks at minder.net]On Behalf Of Joel O'Connor > ~> I traveled by train all the way to Florida from Rhode Island once. 24 > ~> hours straight it took man and I swore I would never do it again. > ~> 40-50 people per car and basically one bathroom per car. Come morning > ~> time man, the lines for the bathrooms stretched out of the cars. > ~> Screw that, I could have flown and made it in 3 hours. Plus it's > ~> easier for the gov't to stop trains and search them, I'd rather go > ~> with the flight. > ~> > > == Ogre bounces like sonar. . .Peace. Ogre _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From rah at shipwright.com Tue Oct 27 13:39:50 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 05:39:50 +0800 Subject: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the ForegoneAlternative In-Reply-To: <199810271738.MAA03351@postal.research.att.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 12:38 PM -0500 on 10/27/98, Steve Bellovin wrote on dbs: > For the record, though, I not only don't think that cryptography should > make the state vanish, I don't think that it will. Cryptographer ~== Libertarian, certainly. Much less Anarchist. I like to joke that David Chaum is a liberal statist with a privacy fetish. PRZ was, too, but, after his bout with a certain kangaroo court prosecutor, I bet he isn't so liberal anymore. :-) Crypto *is*, however, a liberty/anarchy magnet. It certainly changed my thinking about a whole lot of things, including how the state will collapse, someday, in a giant paroxysm of technological determinism. ;-). Dragging this back to the topic of the DBS list itself (and, frankly, the topic is a subset of the cryptography list, too, and lots of others,), the paradox of financial cryptography, and, more specifically, digital bearer settlement, is not that it gives you privacy and freedom (anarchy? :-)), it's because it gives you *cheaper* transactions. Transactions which just happen to be anonymous. You don't *have* to keep records in the normal course of business in order to keep your transactions from unraveling at some later date. You can monitor your own business operations, certainly. But you're not *forced* to, by some, um, regional monopoly. That's attractive. To lots of economic actors, besides terrorists, drug dealers, pedophiles and money launderers. :-). To machines, for instance, but also to actors in markets which are, as they say in economics, perfectly competitive, where things are sold like commodities are. This is opposed to so-called monopolistic competition, where all of a company's products are branded as much as possible. McDonald's versus Burger King is a good example of monopolistic competition. McDonald's doesn't make something *exactly* like a Whopper, for instance, if they did, they'd be sued for copyright violation, or even patent enfringement, though they do make branded, and patented, almost-substitutes. Coke and Pepsi are the same kinds of thing. Except for the Secret Coke Formula, of course. :-). But, stuff like soybeans, or switched bits on a wire, or copies of Linux, or cash, or debt, or even equity in the portfolio aggregate like a stock index, are not *branded*, they're *graded*. Every item in a perfectly competitive market is perfectly substitutable with any other item in that market. If you're trading graded commodities, you don't *care* who you're doing business with. You care about what they're selling you. And it's something which you can verify the quality of on an independent basis. Those grades are certified by someone with a reputation, of course, but even those reputations are graded to the extent that they're priced in a market somewhere. A NYSE seat, for instance, has a price on it, and I think internet product-certifying reputations will too, someday. That's what a digital bearer underwriter is, when you think about it. I think, over time, that Moore's law and a geodesic internetwork gives us increasingly perfect, and not monopolistic, competition, and, in practically every market you can imagine. Graded surgical instructions, say. And to bring up that paroxysm again, if you could convert teleoperated machine instructions like surgery into graded, fungible, and cash-settled, commodities, why not force, currently the product of that most monopolistic of competitors, the nation-state? Anyway, I think that these perfectly competitive markets will be the of hallmark of a geodesic information economy, just like marketing and branding and monopolistic competition are the hallmarks of a late-industrial, hierarchically-organized, mass-media economy. But, again, it is the reduced *cost* of those cryptographically-enabled transactions which will drive everything else, and that is a logical outcome of the technology of financial cryptography and digital bearer transactions. The cost of anything is the foregone alternative. Cheers, Bob Hettinga -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5 iQEVAwUBNjYjzcUCGwxmWcHhAQGOmgf9F3ZHnTP1Io83CJEPmyiTWww/ppvupmiW uHh2i+txJoigxNxDbMHtRQDzP9FXtADH8z+nbGmWZY4PnxbxmKcSFDfH0zXL2sMi beHYaUvya14gtchwPZkCx/XxaZ4RYnZeg7BvjlYWDjScZwgoJP5rV63tSW/gDri1 bnAt2Oa7pNpSmBFad7LNuSTOw0BVZzaoJ/Ucl+MSp2//frf4iL/7p/XjJcOlnhI7 0KyTtAjhfuV886clgpcFfceaS9G14q1FPZfh7yzZyWMReOEe3S1JDptEuuIX35AJ r/2GgSSulY2/v/D6qOgZk6FUgRNFxtMKts6FU8hce0CdN/Pprj97JQ== =xWio -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From daveb-lists at mail.hyperion.co.uk Tue Oct 27 14:58:54 1998 From: daveb-lists at mail.hyperion.co.uk (Dave Birch) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 06:58:54 +0800 Subject: dbts: Cryptographic Dog Stocks, The Dirigible Biplane, and Sending the Wizards Back to Menlo Park Message-ID: <1302592959-147251835@hyperion.co.uk> Vin McLellan said Bob Hettinga said >>It's biometric >>*identity* which is the problem Actually, I would have thought that biometric revocation is the problem! Cheers, Dave Birch. === mailto:daveb at hyperion.co.uk ===== http://www.hyperion.co.uk/ === From redrook at yahoo.com Tue Oct 27 14:58:58 1998 From: redrook at yahoo.com (RedRook) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 06:58:58 +0800 Subject: Using a password as a private key. Message-ID: <19981027215307.3786.rocketmail@send1d.yahoomail.com> ‚‚‚‚Assymetic crypto systems such as Diffie-Hellman, El-Gamel, and DSS, allow the private key to be a randomly chosen number. ‚But, as a cute hack, instead of using a random number, for the private key, you could use a hash of the User Name, and a password. Doing�so�allows�the�users�to�generate their private key on demand. They don't have to store the private key, and if they want to work on a�another computer, they don't need to�bring�along a copy.‚ Has any one tried this? Is there existing software that does this? Any comments on the security of such a scheme? ‚ The only draw back that I can think of is the potential lack of randomness in the key. If the user chooses a bad password, it would be possible to brute force the public key.‚ Harv.‚‚RedRook at yahoo.com‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚ _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From mmotyka at lsil.com Tue Oct 27 15:10:41 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 07:10:41 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <36364AB2.5C26@lsil.com> > Most of nature is a very high quality vacuum, actually. > Yup, I did my 100hrs of Physics, Chemistry and Math too. I like the way the 'vacuum' behaves near very hi-Z nuclei. > Governments have not always been so parasite-infested; > And I find this very difficult to believe. > this disease progresses slowly, numbingly, unnoticed, like leprosy. > Interesting that you use 'numbingly' to describe leprosy; it shows an understanding of the nature of the infection. Be careful if you swim in the freshwater streams in Hawaii. Better not have any cuts or abrasions! More interesting, though, is this: why would a block cipher use key bits rather than an LFSR to do input or output whitening? Is it strictly a performance issue? Is it proven that doing this doesn't leak key bits in some way? Mike From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Tue Oct 27 15:12:15 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 07:12:15 +0800 Subject: MIB Subponeas (fwd) Message-ID: <199810272256.QAA09817@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 12:42:36 -0800 > From: Tim May > Subject: Re: MIB Subponeas > * Is travel paid for? How? By spending hours completing forms in > quadruplicate, or do they just cut a check for some per diem sort of > payment? The IRS offered to pay my travel from the local Austin airport to Seattle and pay the hotel bill and meals. I was trying to determine how transportation in Seattle was going to be handled when they said they didn't need me in person. > * What if one has pressing engagements? (Travel out of the country, an > anniversary party, washing the dog?) I told them I didn't want to go to Seattle, they suggested an affadavit. > * What if one shows up with no records and claims not to have them? Exactly what I did after checking to make sure I didn't. They said 'Ok'. > * What about lawyer expenses? I know the line about "If you cannot afford What lawyer? You don't get a lawyer with Grand Juries. > More soberly, this kind of subpoena could well nuke the Cypherpunks list, Not even hardly. A subpoena isn't an accussation, it's an instrument to obtain potentialy relevant testimony and evidence. It means (at least in this case) "We believe you may know something or have possession of information related, but not necessarily directly involved in this matter." The sub-channel message is "Don't fuck with us, you're only about a hairs breadth away from hell on earth." Besides, they wanted me to testify *for* the prosecution, preferebly willingly. The last thing they were going to do was go heavy handed. > even the distributed node instance. If Igor Chudov, Lance Cottrell, and Jim > Choate all have to fly to Seattle and face scrutiny, implied threats, and > possible jail time for failing to jump when the Feds say jump, they may > decide to stop acting as Fed magnets. If the operators are that jumpy I suspect they wouldn't put up with the bills, occassional stupid private emails, the costs in time, etc. I knew this sort of stuff was a possibility. The only issue that took me by surprise was two officers showing up at work unannounced. It took me till the next day to burn off the heeby-jeebies from that. Of course, a truly motivated and worried, not to mention well heeled, cypherpunks might consider putting up a node themselves.... ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From Chris.Steel at East.Sun.COM Tue Oct 27 15:44:12 1998 From: Chris.Steel at East.Sun.COM (Christopher Steel - Java Design Center McLean VA) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 07:44:12 +0800 Subject: Using a password as a private key. Message-ID: <199810272300.SAA22409@hutch.East.Sun.COM> Why not encrypt the private key with a 128 bit symmetric key (created from the hash of a username and paasword) and store on a keyserver, along with the public key? That way, you don't have to store it yourself locally, you get it off the keyserver. I wrote a keyserver that does just that. In addition, it also verifies ies the user before returning the key. It requires the user to encrypt a known string with a separate password. The encrypted string is sent to the keyserver, encrypted with the keyserver's public key. Seems rather safe. Anyone disagree? -Chris P.S. I might not use it for military purposes, but for company email... "RedRook" wrote: >Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 13:53:07 -0800 (PST) >‚‚‚‚Assymetic crypto systems such as >Diffie-Hellman, El-Gamel, and DSS, allow the private key to be a >randomly chosen number. ‚But, as a cute hack, instead of using a >random number, for the private key, you could use a hash of the User >Name, and a password. > >Doing�so�allows�the�users�to�generate their private key on demand. >They don't have to store the private key, and if they want to work on >a�another computer, they don't need to�bring�along a copy.‚ >Has any one tried this? Is there existing software that does this? Any >comments on the security of such a scheme? ‚ >The only draw back that I can think of is the potential lack of >randomness in the key. If the user chooses a bad password, it would be >possible to brute force the public key.‚ >Harv.‚‚RedRook at yahoo.com‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚ >_________________________________________________________ >DO YOU YAHOO!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Tue Oct 27 15:52:42 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 07:52:42 +0800 Subject: Cameras in Public Places (fwd) Message-ID: <199810272334.RAA09993@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 11:57:22 -0800 > From: Michael Motyka > Subject: Cameras in Public Places [ravage: don't remember who said it... > > ] > > Privacy is also needed on public places (e.g., violated by face > > recognition systems) Anonymity is not equal to privacy. > The appropriate way of dealing with them is to wait for some people to > be misidentified and then file suit against the municipality using the > equipment. Harassment, false arrest, invasion of privacy, abuse of > power, loss of reputation, loss of the ability to earn a living - take a > few of the cities for $10 or $20 million and they'll get the message > that they've been had by the SW vendors. It makes no more sense to outlaw cameras in private or public places than it does to outlaw printing presses in some areas, a very basic way they're identical from the perspective of the law - it isn't the media that matters (with little respect to Marshall). What matters is they record some 'instance' and allow it to be distributed widely. What we do need is a mechanism that prohibits the police or other law enforcement bodies from access without a properly served warrant. Camera use in say a mall is permissible because it's the vendors who pay the rent who are deciding what is and isn't safe - not the customers of those vendors. It's permissible in traffic control and such because it is cost effective in those applications. In traffic control, if a motorist stalls or a wreck occurs the civilian (ie non-LEA) operators can call the necessary resources into play. Once the cop is on the scene a warrant could be issued if charges of some sort are filed. Ulitimately, what we need is a law that says: All law enforcement personnel are prohibited from accessing public or private documents in the course of their duties without a properly served and executed warrant. The two key points are 'public and private' and 'course of their duties'. A cop should be able to walk into a public library and get a book on some subject of interest (even law enforcement). But if it's related to the LEA's cases then a warrant should be required to step foot in the building. Now if he's a beat cop walking his patrol he obviously can't stop chasing a perp on the run who traverses the library (though it is highly unlikely they would stop to read, but imagine a dope deal just as well). Now, one way to deal with that is to insert some sort of phrase about 'openly accessible' or 'anonymously accessible' (that way the question becomes does one need an ID, if so then you need a warrant). ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From hsaleh at phoenix.Princeton.EDU Tue Oct 27 15:53:57 1998 From: hsaleh at phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Homayoun Saleh) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 07:53:57 +0800 Subject: looking for articles Message-ID: Hello, I am looking for any articles or papers having to do with the computability of Poisson distributions in the plane, and someone suggested I ask this list. If anyone knows of anything related, or where else I should be looking, please let me know. Thanks a lot. Cheers, Homayoun From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Tue Oct 27 15:57:14 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 07:57:14 +0800 Subject: looking for articles (fwd) Message-ID: <199810272340.RAA10108@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 18:13:14 -0500 (EST) > From: Homayoun Saleh > Subject: looking for articles > I am looking for any articles or papers having to do with the > computability of Poisson distributions in the plane, and someone suggested > I ask this list. If anyone knows of anything related, or where else > I should be looking, please let me know. > Thanks a lot. Not sure it's what you're looking for but: Statistical Distributions M. Evans, N. Hastings, B. Peacock ISBN 0-471-55951-2 It's got around 40 different distributions and their related equations and characteristics. There is also an appendix that lists the various distributions and the functions in several computational math programs (go MapleV !)... Now if you're looking for various approaches to how to impliment it then I can't help you there, I cookbook that sort of stuff out of my library. Have you tried Knuth? ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Tue Oct 27 16:05:21 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:05:21 +0800 Subject: Rendering ( was MIB Subponeas ) (fwd) Message-ID: <199810272344.RAA10172@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 11:31:52 -0800 > From: Michael Motyka > Subject: Rendering ( was MIB Subponeas ) > Collecting real names and addresses is, apparently, enough of a concrete > step to at least begin the "rendering" process. Which is the whole point of probable cause and civil rights. It turns out the 'respect' part is the hard one...;) > press-squashing, poison-cow BST boys ). Then what would be needed is > some sort of Eternity Service for an active server - detect tampering > and jump hosts. Actualy, something like Plan 9 would be more effective. That way the thing is distributed from the get go. With a suitably object oriented approach it could be feasible to distribute the data to specific servers but encode the program in the connections between the servers task swappers. By using Plan 9's economic resource bidding model it injects a level of anonymity in the repetitive execution aspect that wouldn't normaly be there. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody at replay.com Tue Oct 27 16:14:36 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:14:36 +0800 Subject: Using a password as a private key. Message-ID: <199810272341.AAA20410@replay.com> RedRook at yahoo.com writes: > Assymetic crypto systems such as Diffie-Hellman, El-Gamel, and DSS, > allow the private key to be a randomly chosen number. But, as a cute > hack, instead of using a random number, for the private key, you could > use a hash of the User Name, and a password. > > Doing so allows the users to generate their private key on demand. > They don't have to store the private key, and if they want to work on > a another computer, they don't need to bring along a copy. Has any one > tried this? Is there existing software that does this? Any comments on > the security of such a scheme? The only draw back that I can think of > is the potential lack of randomness in the key. If the user chooses a > bad password, it would be possible to brute force the public key. You can accomplish the same thing by encrypting your private key (including RSA) with a passphrase and publishing it. Because of the problems with passphrase bruting, it probably only makes sense to do this with a machine-generated passphrase which has guaranteed entropy. Something like: "Aarhous mocrader Fals paca rate portion wiserustingned" has a guaranteed > 128 bits of entropy, which should be enough for most purposes. Probably with an hour's study most people could memorize such a passphrase. From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Tue Oct 27 16:37:01 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:37:01 +0800 Subject: UK police chase crooks on CCTV (fwd) Message-ID: <199810280020.SAA10370@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: bill.stewart at pobox.com > X-Sender: wcs at idiom.com (Unverified) > Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 09:27:28 -0800 > Subject: Re: UK police chase crooks on CCTV (fwd) > >> ``The only people entered on to the system will be convicted criminals > >> who, through our intelligence, we believe are habitually committing > >> crimes in the area,'' > >> Dave Armond as saying. ``If people are not committing crime they have > >> nothing to fear, but if they are among the small minority who are, the > >> message is, 'We are watching out for you.''' > The policeman's statement, if honest, implies that the > system needs a real mugshot or more detailed set of pictures to work from, > so they're going to start with feeding it the Usual Suspects, > for whom they can get good data for the system to search. > It probably also has capacity limitations, so they won't be searching > for everybody they have pictures of, just the most likely. For now. What's the curve on facial recognition for 2x improvement? It would seem probable to me that there would be a feature to snap closeups off the cameras and feed them back in real-time. Talk about real-time traffic analysis. > >We need a law or court ruling pretty quickly in the US that sets the > >standard that a group of people have no more or less rights than an > >individual. This will required LEA's to provide probable cause prior to any > >actions against groups of people (such as this). > > Ain't gonna happen - are you kidding? If there is a ruling like that, > it'll be done in some way that restricts citizen rights rather than > expanding them, or expands police powers rather than restricting them. I'll have to disagree. > It's already legal for cops to hang around street corners watching for > suspicious activities or suspicious people, and all video recognition Um, it was always legal and should continue to be so, just as it should be legal for you or I to stand around that corner and watch for unusual activity. It's there job. They call it walking the beat. > Unfortunately, I'm being increasingly forced to take the David Brin position of > "Cameras are cheap, get used to it, just make sure we have more cameras > pointing at the cops than they have pointing at us, and make sure > the cameras the government has are citizen-accessible as well." I don't know about citizen-accessible. I don't want some joe blow walking down the street to get access to the cameras that track my trek to work each day. No, it needs to be very limited and require full interaction of the courts to gain access. Simply putting on a police uniform (or a army uniform) shouldn't mean you give up your rights as a citizen. This may be hard to believe, but I'm not the state's nigger and neither is that police officer or soldier. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From pouttarac at yahoo.com Wed Oct 28 08:50:01 1998 From: pouttarac at yahoo.com (StoneCold-PT) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:50:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: unsubcribe Message-ID: <19981028164909.28663.rocketmail@send1d.yahoomail.com> unsubcribe ---Diederik Smets wrote: > > IF the owner of the id also entered an internet password AND it is the same > as the one for the id file, then you can use brute force (dictionairies) to > try and crack it. Get the encrypted value in the > properties>fields>HTTPPassword of the persons document in the PNAB and > compare it to the results of the @password() function. > > Alternatively, do a search for old id files which might still be accessible > with the 'default' password (if you know which one that is), but you won't > be able to access servers that have the 'check password' option enabled. > > If you need to access a local DB that has 'enforce a consistant ACL across > all replicas' enabled, just use another id and add that person's name with > the necessary roles to the ACL via LotusScript. > > Diederik > > > Hello > I'm using lotus notes and I have a big problem. I have a id file with > no > password. How can I get a password for it or reset it. Is there some type > of > utility or something someone knows of?I have been told that I'm out of luck > unless I have the original. > > John... > > > == My Favorite Surfing Sites: http://www.dilbert.com/ and http://www.nro.odci.gov/ "To keep you is no benefit; to destroy you is no loss" by Thida Mam _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From hrook at exchange.microsoft.com Tue Oct 27 17:26:04 1998 From: hrook at exchange.microsoft.com (Harvey Rook (Exchange)) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:26:04 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <2FBF98FC7852CF11912A0000000000010D19AD2A@DINO> > More interesting, though, is this: why would a block cipher > use key bits > rather than an LFSR to do input or output whitening? Is it strictly a > performance issue? Is it proven that doing this doesn't leak > key bits in > some way? > > Mike > In many newer block ciphers, the key schedule comes from a fairly good one way hash of the key. Take a look at RC6, or TwoFish. Essentially this accomplishes the same thing as using a good LSFR. Harv. From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Tue Oct 27 17:37:49 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:37:49 +0800 Subject: capitalism run amuck by Korton (fwd) Message-ID: <199810280126.TAA10565@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 09:28:56 -0500 > From: Soren > Subject: Re: capitalism run amuck by Korton > is that there is a distinct difference between capitalism in a free market, > and the kind of corporate-capitalism that the world is enmeshed in now. corporate-capitalism? Is that church-religion? Spin doctorism. The problem is that economics have social effects and by extension it has responsibilities along with them. We've allowed monetary interests drive our government instead of issues of true civil liberties. This should not be implied that this has *ever* been true. The Constitution starts out talking about creating a 'more perfect' union. It's a goal we should be striving for. The founding fathers knew they couldn't fulfill it, they knew their children wouldn't do it. They did believe that latter generations could achieve it. We haven't fallen from grace, and the politicians are probably not any more corrupt, because we never had it. If democracy fails it's because *WE* failed. The problem with free-markets is they give up all pretext to being imperfect and claim to be *the* answer. But at they same time it completely ignores an entire group of aspects of business operation and asks us to ignore them too. > The former allows for the free exchange of value based upon the participants > understanding of that value. That pretty much excludes Jews & Arabs, etc.... > concepts such as "natural wealth", "legal tender", "zero sum economies" Who in their right mind compares our economy to a zero sum economy? >

An assumption is made that I fundamentally disagree with -- democracy > is the holy grail of human social intercourse.  Never, in recorded It's not the holy grail but there isn't another system with anywhere the potential for fulfilling human desires with a minimum of abuse and overhead. Perhaps it would be simpler to simply admit the obvious and clearly state that we no longer have a democratic system. > history, has democracy existed without the support of client slave states/populations.  Well considering the world didn't pop out of a test tube but evolved over time this argument holds little weight. The point *is* that democratic system hold the best model we know of to date. Our particular twisted model of it fails, that doesn't mean theory failed. It's one of the reasons I always chuckle at those who say the fall of the CCCP meant the fall of communism. What a maroon. > but its a whisper in a propaganda hurricane,  The US is not a democracy, > it is a republic. For those of you who don't know the difference; a democracy > puts everything up for grabs, including your life, liberty and the pursuit > of happiness, while a republic provides 'certain inalienable rights', similar > to those  currently being alienated by the Klinton Kongressional Klan. Um, actualy that is incorrect. A democracy is a system whereby the rules of the system are determined by interaction of the population at the individual level through a vote or other representitive mechanism. A republic is one (sic) that uses a Senate (an elected body of individuals supposedly held in high esteme, usualy two or more acting together) as that representative mechanism. There are actualy many different mechanisms that are usable in a democratic system. Another thing is that in a Democracy there isn't a need for a Bill of Rights since all participants are considered rational. The founding fathers had useful insite when they appended that document under protest. The problem with applying any political system is the 'shall not' and similar phrases. What is the most interesting to me is that there is absolutely no reason to have a President. There is nothing other than historical status quo that individuals need to be the leaders of countries. Washington knew this when he refused to be addressed as "Your Highness". It's a representation of mass human psychology. >
to realise that under capitalism, democracy is now for sale to the > highest If so then it's only because we can't garner the support to pass an amendment. If the problem is that serious and wide spread it should be put to a vote and noted as an amendment. What simply amazes me is why neither the pro- or con- side of the gun debate ever brings this up. This whole issue could potentialy be solved by have the competing camps create two amendments and submit them to the houses in the individual states. Justification for this is pursuant (untested) in the fact that the people are given a right to redress of grievances. Since the law prohibits individuals from suing the government unless some weird permission is obtained then the next best alternative would be direct submission of potential amendments directly into the state legislatures. The people have a right to change the law via constitutional amendment unfettered by federal intervention or regulation. This would be a simple and expedient process with email being what it is... >

is treated as progress. The world is now ruled by > a global financial casino staffed by faceless bankers and hedge > fund speculators who operate with a herd mentality in the shadowy > world of global finance.
And you want to turn these folks loose in an economy with no regulation (ie free-market)? >
details of our president's sex life and calls for his impeachment for > lying >
about an inconsequential affair. Ok, so next time I have to speak under oath for a traffic ticket it's ok if I lie too? How about a murder trial? How about *your* murder trial? Anyone who doesn't understand the implications of a class based legal system in a democracy is lost in the ozone... I'm gonna stop now, this is entirely too long an initial troll and I don't have the time to go through it further. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From athena at cyberpass.net Tue Oct 27 17:38:16 1998 From: athena at cyberpass.net (Pallas Anonymous Remailer) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:38:16 +0800 Subject: Rendering ( was MIB Subponeas ) Message-ID: <22350d1a55de7eca4ce6d742efc0efc9@anonymous> ILovToHack at aol.com wrote: > > First of all i want to apoligize for posting this. > Second i am a little off on the AP bot could some one please take the time to > explain this to me. Thanks. > -Mike Pity. You're on it. From nobody at replay.com Tue Oct 27 17:49:20 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:49:20 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199810280113.CAA28308@replay.com> [Two letters received by fax on 27 October 1998] ---------- [Letter 1, cover and 16 pages] 8 September 1998 Cover Sheet Declan The Good News is that I have a pen to write with, due to the Free Enterprise System being alive & well within the Prison System. The Bad News is that Micro$oft Pens (TM) controls 95% of the market... I am hoping you can share as much of this communique as possible with the CPUNX, since my chain is constantly getting yanked in different directions, making outside contact sporatic & unreliable. Feel free to reserve for your own use any of the enclosed information you need for your own journalistic purposes. I will try to reach you by phone (automated collect-call system requiring touch-tone on your end). Thanks for the Mags, CJ Parker ps# My prison cell mirror now reads, "Chocolate Skelter." (Brownie & Milk) ------------------------------------------------ [FLORENCE NUTLY NEWS - "I'M HERE BECAUSE I believe that the KONTROLLERS are taking actions that create obstacles to the freedom and openess of the Internet. ~Truth Glaser] Declan, Looks like you may be receiving the *only* copy of the Florence Nutly News, since I have, up until now, been writing on paper towels and medicine cups, using combinations of blood, sperm and chocolate (two of which are in short supply) for ink, and I will soon be headed to Nutly News Head (pardon the pun) Quarters in Springfield, Missouri, for Rewiring of my Brain Circuity. Although I was well-prepared for my arrest - wearing my "Linda Lou & the Drifters" T-shirt, as promised, having spent several days getting Baby Truth Mongrel settled into a [illegible --------------]: grabbing my Evidence Bag [illegible ---] two containers of medication [illegible ---] the knock on the door on the other side of town - I found myself totally unprepared for the experience of being thrown into a KafkaEsque KonsPiracy [illegible]. I will admit to having told a few whoppers in my time, mostly on fishing trips, but my arm cannot stretch far enough to describe the Immensity of The Plot (TM) to crap on every right and freedom that most Americans 'think' they have, in order to bring me - like a Chained Mad Dog - to a Governmental Pre Destined End at the hands of the American Judicial and Prison System. Although I have not yet lost my mind (I predict by Thursday at the latest), and I know that the Whole World (TM) is not *really* involved in The Plot (TM) against me, everything since my arrest has proceeded as if this were exactly the case. I shit you not... A thread on the CPUNX Distrubed Male LISP that I followed with interest had to do with the Ratio of Consciously Conspiring Cocksuckers to Robotic Moronic Techtronics in the current Death March to Analog Digital Battan. i.e. Hettinga's (?) tagline = "Do not attribute to conspiracy that which can be explained by stupidity..." (~misquote?) As my ^ Pre Destined (<- Cro-Magnon Editing)^ Imprisonment and my March Toward Justice began to unfold, I was at first struck by the banal predictability of the Dehumanizing <-> Brainwashing that takes place as the Identity and Persona of an Individual is "Committed to The Custody Of" the Kontrollers (TM). I watched as the concerns of Outsiders Becoming Insiders switched from which Telco offered the best services? -> when am I allowed to use the phone?, etc., ad infinitum, until an Inside Lifer being transferred from a different prison asked only a single question upon his arrival - a question which strikes terror into the heart and mind, (of the Outside Lifer), who know that, stripped of the Toys & Trappings (TM) that the Kontrollers "allow" them to have to distract them from the reality of their true status in life, there is really only a single question that truly matters, whether one is moving to an Insider Feeding Pen or an Outside Feeding Pen: "How is the food?" Paris or Auchwitz - Danube or Dachau, Just tell me one thing, Fritz - "How is the chow?" The KONSCIOUSLY KONSPIRING KRIMINAL element of the TREASURY Agents was just as predictable as the mechanical, fixed cogs of The System Machinery. - Charging me with a crime that would enable them to put a bug in the ear of every human element of the Judicial [illegible] System from the Judge -> the Prison Guard - "This man is using his writing and the Internet as a weapon to murder government officials and authority figures (such as yourself!)." - Telling the prison medical staff things designed to label me as a violent, psychotic [???]-freak. - Going through the motion of 'discovering' evidence that they were already full aware of as a result of previous legal and illegal surveillance & investigation. "[Illegible ------------------------------]" The previous, of course, is merely an indication that the Conscious Conspiracies of Analog Human Goals & Desire for Power/Control is present "alongside of" the "Stupidity" of a mechanized version of digitized cogs designed to automatically categorize, shape and standardize those individual Elements & Entities that the Puppet Masters place on Conveyor Belts leading to the Educational System, Employment System, Judicial System, etc. The observation, made by various of the CypherPunks on the LISP, as well as portions of Space Aliens Hide My Drugs, which dealt with the intimations of coercion and brainwashing manipulation in the treatment of Jim Bell at the hands of the Justice System, were partly conjecture due to a lack of detail on Bell's full situation & treatment. As a result of my research on the subject, my previous life experience, and my current situation, I feel semi-qualified to express the opinion that I am being subjected to CLASSIC/TEXTBOOK BRAINWASHING TECHNIQUES, combining physical deprivation and disorientation with the witholding of proper medical treatment and physical coercion to accept 'new' diagnoses and 'new' medication designed to meet the needs of the Prison & Judicial System, rather than to meet my own medical needs. e.g. - Denying me clothing, bedding, personal items, services available to other inmates, etc. offering me access to my reading glasses if I stop exhibiting symptoms of Tourette Syndrome, for which I have been diagnosed and treated by a variety of physicians and specialists for years. I will not go into the 2-3 pages of notes I have made documenting the above, since nabbed, like a whiner, and Lord Knows, I have abused myself more over the years through my own craziness and stupidity, than those fuckers could ever hope to accomplish. The point I wold like to make to the CypherPunks is that the TOTALITY of the persecution, oppression, censorship, conspiracy - or whatever you want to label it - that is being directed toward me is GREATGER THAN > the Sum of the Robotic Moronic Techtronics PLUS the Consciously Conspiring CockSuckers [This is even 'after' taking into account my spitting in a US Treasury Agent's eye and writing 'Helter Skelter' in my own blood on a prison mirror.] I find myself sitting in a prison cell in Middle America, looking at a Prison Commissary sheet which confirms my suspicion that the prison meals are designed to market a variety of condiments, such as mayo and picante sauce, to the most Captive Consumers of all. I find myself reflecting on the similarities between a friend, whose 'Health Coverage' does not seem to apply to any disease he might get, and to my own experience of having Prison Medical Personnel state, "We don't have those medications in here," and knowing, instinctively, that I am just going to have to 'choose' a disease they had medication for, or just go fuck myself. I find myself reflecting on the Techno BioSemiotic Evolution of a self-sustaining Corrections CORPORATION of America system which has Little Johnny hustling to sell more Crack, so that his Daddy can buy condiments to make his prison food more palatable, eventually getting busted and sent to prison, putting his younger brother, Raoul, in the Corrections CORPORATION food chain as a Crack salesperson & future Inmate/ Consumer. I find myself peering down a Tunnel Through Time and seeing that the "Dark Forces" spoken of in the 'The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre', in Part I of The True Story of the InterNet, were, and are, just as real as the "Dark Clouds Gathering Over Europe" during the Rise of the Third Reich - with the Dark Clouds being formed by the Industrial BioSemiotic Progeny of the Marriage of the Rumbling of the Tanks with the Shouting and Cheering of the Masses at the Nazi Rallies - and with the Dark Forces being formed by the Technological BioSemiotic Progeny of the Marriage of the Silence of the Computers with the Silence of the Lambs, as they wait quietly in line to fill out their local supermarket 'Nickle Off On A Can of Beans Discount Card,' listing their InterNet Email address so that the Kontrollers can use the new J. Edgar Digital Hoover Vacume Technology to suck the Sheeple's brains onto the Digital Cattle Cars, taking them behind the Electro Magnetic Curtain, where they can be fed a bland diet of Brain food designed to sell them condiments, such as HBO and the TIME Digital Supplement, as Prisoners of the Electronic Corrections Corporation of Planet Terra. Whoa, Trigger! Every time I get on a roll, I seem to roll a little cloer to Springfield... Anyway, for anyone interested in the status of my legal situation, I believe my status can be best described by the use of a variety of expletives which don't have a snowball's chance in Hades of making it past the Censor, but which involves bending over and touching one's ankles. The problem, of course, is that the GRAND PLAY OF JUSTICE has already been written, and there is no role available for the Defendant. The Problem (TM) is that I, unlike those who have brought the charges against me, want to take this case to trial. At my original court appearance, I elected to represent myself. The Judge took it upon herself to appoint a Public Defender to "assist" me. I immediately translated "assist" to "Sell You Down The Fucking River!" (Mentally envisioning the PD as "supporting" me by having me stand on his shouldeer as the noose was placed around my neck.) Just before my second court appearance the PD introduced himself and told me it was a pretty routine "Motion to Remove" hearing/ "Identity" hearing, and that I would then be sent to Seattle. I informed him that if they WANTED me to go to Seattle immediately, then I wanted to fight it. The PD left, and returned later with the news that the Feds had just sprung a "Complaint" on him that he was unaware of and the he would need a couple of weeks to deal with it. I had him read a short portion of the Complaint and, recognizing it as identical to a recent 'gift' I had received, I told the PD that, since the Feds now seemed to want a delay, that I was ready to proceed. In court the PD informed the Judge that *he* needed time to "study the Complaint" (run up his bill) and that *I* had trouble following his logic (wanted to proceed with what he had already told me was a routine, 'slam- dunk for the government' matter anyway). So, everyone compared their Tee Times with local golf courses and decided that I would rot in Jail for two weeks while they tired to correct their slice. Of course, the day before the two weeks is up, I receive a letter the Judge's Public Defender Bum Buddy, containing Order 98-02824M, stating that "The defense had made an oral motion..." (Funny, I thought that 'I" was the Defense) ... "for psychiatric evaluation ... asserting that the Defendant cannot communicate/particiapte..." In other words, the lawyer (whom Shakespeare would shoot first) paddled over to the Judge to have me shipped off to Dr. Frankenstein's Funny Farm, while I, upstream from Tucson (with 'no paddle') am setting and wondering how the Grand Canyon State produces so many Amateur Medical Genius' who are able to perform an in depth medical diagnosis of an individual after speaking with them for lkess than five minutes - total. [The Prison Medical Staff spending half of that time in a room full of people carrying Walkie Talkies, asking me whether or not I heard voices...] However, if your Heart of Hearts is tempted to Bleed Purple Piss for me, stuff a rag in it, because I've been telling people form the beginning that the GuberMint would be sending me off for mental ReClassfication. The Bottom Line (TM) is that the Complaint seems to amount to - once the smoke & mirrors are cleared away - one Entertainment BOT and one anonymous email 'authenticated' by what I suspect will trun out to be a a Communal 'Magic Circle' PGP digital signature. (Worst Case Scenario - I will be forced, in open court, for the first time ever, to reveal "How I Broke PGP (TM.") Seriously, though (and I've got an Ocean Front Jail Cell in Florence, AZ), I expect that the GooberMint needs me to be 'crazy' enough for my writing, facts and opinions to be dismissed, yet 'sane' enough to be criminally liable for my actions. I am certain that the employees of "a suitable facility for psychiatric examination as designated by the Bureau of Prions" know exactly what is expected of them. BTW, the 'Dead Lucky AP-Bot' received just three votes - for Rabid Wombat, Toto, and for Donald Duck (If I remember correctly). Three targets - three years in jail. Sounds fair to me... I *know* my proper role in this Dark Comedy. After a suitable period of 'Attitude Adjustment', I'm supposed to accept whatever offer of 'leniency' the Feds feel generous enough to offer me. The problem, of course, is that not only am I a spritual Channeler of the BIG FUCK YOU!, but I am also cursed with an affliction, Tourette Syndrome, which often causes me to implusively blurt out...The TRUTH (TM). The PROBLEM (TM) is that I am a CypherPunk, and I would rather spend 3 years sitting naked in a cold, hard prison cell, than to help bring the world one step closer to where there aren't any CypherPunks to piss all over themselves and each other - and even on self-righteous, high-minded government officials, from time to time. The REAL PROBLEM (TM) is that, ultimately, I am still naive and/or hopeful enough to believe that there still exist, [illegible ------------] for an ordinary citizen to slip through the cracks in a Statist/Robotic Judicial System into a Time/Space Continuum where Jimmy Stewart wouldn't be disbarred for being 'too [illegible].' I have no doubt that the IRS/Government can, as has been intimated, "put the hammer down" on myself, my family and my friends if they choose to do so. My only response to this is that, if this is so and if there is no true recourse available for the common citizen, then the difference between living in an Inside prison versus an Outside prison is mostly Illusory anyway. My poor Sainted Father, who would have been justified in strangling me in my crib, had he realized the grief I would cause him over the years, wrote to me in prison expressing his worry that perhaps my present situation was the result of him having failed me in so many ways over the course of the last few years. I replied that my Father *was* responsible for my current situation, as a result of being the World's Most Wonderful Father (TM) and making it possible for me to spend the last few years doing exactly what I really and truly wanted to do. After my next court appearance, I may be mentally & financially broken, slobbering and drooling on myself, but I *will* be smiling... The Bible taught me what to expect as a result of telling The Truth (TM), and a short story, "[???} By Niggel," taught me what to expect as a result of being the Author... But I'm the TruthMonger, so it's the only dance there is... (Bop Shoo Bop, Bopper-Bopper-Shoo-Bop). ToTo CYPHERPUNKS CULT OF ONE "Close Ranks! Every WoMan for HimOrHer Self!" ARMY OF DOG "ANARCHY - Together We Can Make It Happen!" CIRCLE OF EUNUCHS "He Who Shits On The Road Will Meet Flies Upon His Return" [End Letter 1] ---------- [Cover note Letter 2; no date] Declan, ToTo -> -> Funny Farm Yours is only address handy Please fwd -> LJ Dowling -> Judge Fiora -> CPUNX List Thanx Toto ---------------------------------------------------------- Letter 2 is four mostly illegible pages of what appears to be scatalogical humor addressed to the Arizona magistrate, Nancy Fiora, beginning: Yo Nancy! Are you Just As Ignorant As Snot (TM), a Callous Cunt (TM) or a Konciously Konspiring Kocksucker (TM)? If you are Just As Ignorant As Snot (TM), that might explain why you actually went through the motions of giving an order for me to receive proper medical treatment not understanding that Order From A Skirt (TM) in Arizona apparently doesn't mean Jack Shit to prison officials. If this is the case, could you please arrange for a Male Judge to issue the same orders and see if that clears up the problem? Then 4 pages of illegible text with a few bits readable on withheld medical treatment leading to the risk of ingrown toenails, Big Hairy Butt (TM), and Fresh >From The ClueServer (TM) advice, with this closing: (You'll have to figure this part out without the pictures to help this time - moving your lips while you read might help...) I write this under the influence of the Drugs given to me by the physicians in whose care you have placed me. Some Fucking Improvement (TM), eh? On our next date (in court), you might want to choose a wash & wear Robe, since I could be drooling & slobbering a lot. Loves and Kisses [???] Psychotic Killer To Be Named Later. [End Letter 2] From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Tue Oct 27 17:49:27 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:49:27 +0800 Subject: Right of privacy Message-ID: <199810280135.TAA10758@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: Theodor.SCHLICKMANN at BXL.DG13.cec.be > Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 11:23:47 +0100 > Subject: Re: An amendment proposal... > Your scope of privacy seems to be rather narrow. True enough. I figured if I kept typing I'd probably get into trouble with somebody. Besides I just wanted to start a discussion for a couple of days distraction. There are many aspects of the various characteristics and I don't pretend to be able to imagine them in all their combinatorial splendor. One thing I know is that the social potential for video cameras in relation to traffic management are immense. The problem is that their potential for abuse when coupled with other sorts of technologies is absolutely frightening. I don't believe that potential is enough to avoid them out of hand. > It is not only communication. > Privacy is also needed on public places (e.g., violated by face recognition systems), > at work places (e.g.,violated by telephone tapping), for your body (e.g., endangered by > abortion control), No, what is needed in public places is anonymity. We want to be treated just like everyone else. We specificaly don't want any identity. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From help at webpersonals.com Tue Oct 27 18:18:06 1998 From: help at webpersonals.com (Webpersonals) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 10:18:06 +0800 Subject: You won't want to miss this! Message-ID: <199810280146.UAA27379@webpersonals.com> Hi, CYPHERPUNKS! We are pleased to announce that we have made several big improvements to Webpersonals (Avenia, Womanline and Manline) since your last visit. The biggest and best of our upgrade, we call "Happy Hour". Our new Happy Hour Ticket allows you to enjoy one full hour of uninterrupted instant messaging with other members online anytime, at a big savings. In fact, for a limited time, we are currently offering a special Bonus Offer which wil allow you to try Happy Hour FREE! While our Bonus Offer lasts, you will receive FREE Happy Hour Ticket(s) with any purchase package. If you decide to purchase now, you will not lose your current Credits. Your new purchase package plus FREE Happy Hour Ticket(s) will be added to your account for you to use at any time. PLUS... our Search function is now twice as powerful! Finding that special someone is faster, easier and more convenient with the new "saved search" function. Residents of North America can also search within a specified distance, allowing them to locate member in as broad or as specific a range as they wish. And finally, we have added two new user-friendly payment options. Try our toll-free 1-888 fax payment line, or phone our Telephone Payment Line with your credit card information. It's quick and easy to order Credit and Ticket packages over fax or phone.All charges will appear under "Interactive Media USA" on your credit card statement. If you have forgotten your Secret ID and password, here they are: Secret ID: CYPHERPUNKS Password: CYPHERPU PLEASE NOTE: You may have experienced difficulty connecting to www.avenia.com. We are having some technical difficulties with this domain and ask that you use www.webpersonals.com until further notice. Thank you. The Staff of Webpersonals http://www.webpersonals.com From jya at pipeline.com Tue Oct 27 18:26:55 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 10:26:55 +0800 Subject: MIB Subpoena 3 In-Reply-To: <4.0.2.19981027112335.03c0c840@panix.com> Message-ID: <199810280149.UAA09356@camel7.mindspring.com> We've received word of a third Grand Jury subpoena in CJ's case. With a request to not publicize the person and information sought. Yep, we tried to prize it loose, citing Gilmore's model, but no go. Word from that person is that the trial is expected to begin in mid-November, which could indicate that CJ's evaluation will be completed shortly. Interest in attending is picking up. We've had requests to keep several folks informed on dates of court activity. All we got so far is the Nov 10 date on John Gilmore's Grand Jury subpoena and the mid-Nov trial start. So any info is most welcome. BTW, has anyone seen news reports on CJ's case other than those of Declan? If so, we'd like pointers or copies. From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Tue Oct 27 19:11:47 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:11:47 +0800 Subject: MIB Subpoena 3 (fwd) Message-ID: <199810280255.UAA11299@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 20:41:07 -0500 > From: John Young > Subject: MIB Subpoena 3 > We've received word of a third Grand Jury subpoena in > CJ's case. With a request to not publicize the person and > information sought. Yep, we tried to prize it loose, citing > Gilmore's model, but no go. > Word from that person is that the trial is expected to begin > in mid-November, which could indicate that CJ's evaluation > will be completed shortly. > All we got so far is the Nov 10 date on John Gilmore's Grand > Jury subpoena and the mid-Nov trial start. So any info is most > welcome. My subpeona date was the 18th, changed from the 19th. Something changed in their time table. Possible pressure from some front? > BTW, has anyone seen news reports on CJ's case other than > those of Declan? If so, we'd like pointers or copies. Nada. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From vznuri at netcom.com Tue Oct 27 19:36:16 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:36:16 +0800 Subject: IP: Europe May Block Flow of Internet Data With US Message-ID: <199810280309.TAA27103@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Europe May Block Flow of Internet Data With US Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 09:45:04 -0600 To: believer at telepath.com Source: Christian Science Monitor http://www.csmonitor.com/todays_paper/reduced/today/intl/intl.3.html International - Monday October 26, 1998 Europe May Block Flow of Internet Data With US Peter Ford, Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor PARIS -- Radically different American and European notions of privacy and how to protect it are threatening to curb the worldwide boom in electronic commerce. New European Union rules governing international transfers of personal data over the Internet go into effect today. They commit EU governments to strict new privacy standards in electronic databases storing citizens' personal details. And they oblige governments to block data transfers to countries that fail to uphold "adequate" privacy provisions. That, in the European Commission's view, includes the United States. Year-long efforts by senior US negotiators to convince the EU otherwise have shown how "in Europe, privacy is seen as a human right ... while the Americans are saying that the market should look after it," says Christiaan van der Valk, an expert in electronic privacy issues with the Paris-based International Chamber of Commerce. Unless European and US negotiators reach agreement, the EU directive "could have pretty severe long-term effects, hindering the extension of e-commerce and the globalization of industry generally," warns IBM spokeswoman Armgard von Reden. The new rules give European citizens the right to access personal data held on them by private corporations and to correct it if it is false. Individuals must give consent to the processing of sensitive data such as medical records or details of ethnicity. Web-site operators routinely capture personal information about users who visit their sites and sell it to direct marketing companies and other clients. "Privacy safeguards in the United States have not kept up to date," argued Marc Rotenberg, a teacher of privacy law at Georgetown University in Washington, in testimony to the US House of Representatives earlier this year. If data protection officials in European countries were to start forbidding the transfer of personal data to the US this week, or demanding individual notification of such transfers from data processors, "everything would grind to a halt," says Philip Jones, assistant registrar at Britain's Data Protection Registry, a government body. Every day companies such as airlines, banks, and insurance firms transfer millions of bits of information - like names, addresses, and phone numbers - on clients or potential customers. But "nobody is going to go down to some basement in European Union headquarters to throw a switch that will shut off all data flows on Monday morning," adds Professor Rotenberg. Only a handful of the 15 EU countries have passed the legislation to implement the Commission's directive. The Commission is still negotiating with the US on how the rules will be enforced. Washington, reluctant to legislate, is seeking EU approval for a voluntary system. US companies wishing to process Europeans' personal information would adhere to a set of principles laid down by the Department of Commerce. How they would be enforced, however, and how European citizens could seek redress for any grievances, is not yet clear. Alternatively, US negotiators are suggesting companies could join systems such as the Online Privacy Alliance, set up by IBM and Time-Warner, among others. Members commit themselves to respect the alliance's privacy standards and to submit to checks by Trust-e, an independent verification organization. Data-importing companies in the US could also sign contracts with the exporter, pledging to treat information with the same degree of confidentiality it would enjoy in Europe. "Most global companies are heading in this direction," says Ms. von Reden. EC officials were to meet European representatives today to discuss the American proposals and Washington's request for a 90-day extension of the application of the new rules. Nobody expects dramatic changes this week, but privacy activists are expected to test the directive as soon as it comes into force by laying a complaint against a high-profile company such as Visa International or Citigroup. At the moment, says one executive with an international financial services group, "I am not sure that anyone can say how this is all supposed to work in real life." ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Tue Oct 27 19:36:38 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:36:38 +0800 Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.69: EU Law Aims to Protect Privacy of Personal Data Message-ID: <199810280309.TAA27142@netcom13.netcom.com> From: "ama-gi ISPI" Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.69: EU Law Aims to Protect Privacy of Personal Data Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 02:34:54 -0800 To: ISPI Clips 5.69: EU Law Aims to Protect Privacy of Personal Data News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) Tuesday October 27, 1998 ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This From: The New York Times, October 26, 1998 http://www.nytimes.com European Law Aims to Protect Privacy of Personal Data http://search.nytimes.com/search/daily/bin/fastweb?getdoc+site+iib-site+45+ 0+wAAA+privacy By EDMUND L. ANDREWS FRANKFURT, Germany -- The European Union put into effect a law Sunday prohibiting U.S.-style buying and selling of personal data, a move that could interrupt electronic commerce with the United States if the two sides fail to resolve deep philosophical and legal differences over protecting privacy. The goal of the European law is to prohibit companies from using information about their customers in ways the customers never intended -- for example, selling it to other companies for use as a marketing tool. The new law affects an enormous range of information that companies collect about people in the course of daily business, from credit-card transactions to magazine subscriptions to telephone records, as well as the electronic footprints that people leave when they visit sites on the World Wide Web. The law was adopted three years ago by the European Union after a majority of its 15 member nations agreed to issue what is known as a directive. Under European law, each member nation is required to implement the directive by enacting its own law. Six nations have drafted or passed such laws so far. Beyond its impact on Europe, the directive has the potential to disrupt electronic commerce with the United States. A key provision of the new measure would prohibit any company doing business in the European Union from transmitting personal data to any country that does not guarantee comparable privacy protection -- foremost among them, at this point, the United States. American direct-marketing companies, which make money buying, selling and developing business strategies based on huge data banks of personal information about consumers, have lobbied hard against government regulation of their industry. As a result, the Clinton administration has adopted a more laissez-faire approach under which data industries would be allowed to police themselves through self-regulatory organizations. U.S. officials say they agree with Europe on the basic principle that privacy should be protected but they have big differences about the best way to carry it out. "They have privacy czars and bureaucracies, and that kind of top-down approach would probably be regarded as a violation of privacy rights by many people in the U.S.," David Aaron, undersecretary of commerce, said of European nations. Aaron, who held talks on the issue with European officials in Brussels, Belgium, earlier this month, added, "We say, 'Let's create a situation where, if companies agree to follow certain data practices, they can be held harmless under the new directive."' If the issue, which neither side paid much attention to until a few months ago, is not resolved, European officials could theoretically soon begin to block trans-Atlantic data transfers by multinational corporations and the growing number of Internet companies. European officials say they have no plans for any blockades soon, and are hopeful about reaching a peaceful resolution. Officials from the United States and Europe say they held constructive positive discussions earlier this month. The European Commission has scheduled a meeting on the issue for Monday, and it is expected to seek some kind of temporary solution while the two sides negotiate. Underlying the debate is a deeper political issue that is fraught with cultural baggage. For years, European nations have been far tougher than the United States about protecting privacy. Many countries essentially ban telephone marketing to people's homes, and that prohibition is now being applied to unsolicited sales approaches by fax and e-mail. Several nations, including Germany and the Netherlands, have government agencies devoted exclusively to protecting personal data. Acting as ombudsmen, these agencies investigate complaints from individuals who believe that companies have mishandled information about them. Companies that are accused of violating privacy laws can be prosecuted under criminal laws. "There is a great difference in attitudes about privacy protection between Europe and the United States," said Ulrich Sieber, a law professor at the University of Wuertzburg in Germany. U.S. privacy laws are far more lax and consist of a hodgepodge of statutes and regulations enforced by various state and federal agencies charged with oversight of other industries, like, for instance, those that regulate banks. In sharp contrast with Europe, an entire industry has arisen in the United States that specializes in trolling public and private sources for vast quantities of personal information, like birth records, drivers' license numbers and torrents of data accumulated by retailers about customers' individual purchases. The new European directive embraces several basic principles that national governments must now translate into their own laws. It requires that companies tell people when they collect information about them and disclose how that information will be used. In addition, customers must provide informed consent before any company can legally use that data. The law also requires companies to give people access to information about themselves. U.S. officials say they agree with those requirements in principle, but disagree with giving people unconditional access to information about themselves, saying access should be allowed only if it is reasonable or practical to do so. The more difficult issues are enforcement and policing. Aaron says the United States wants to give companies a variety of "safe harbors" to satisfy privacy protection. One idea is to create independent self-regulatory organizations that would monitor a company's data practices and would give well-behaved companies what amounts to a stamp of approval. Another option, they say, should be for companies to deal directly with European officials and demonstrate that their systems and practices are appropriate. But legal experts say the new law could easily take on a life of its own, because it gives individuals and private organizations the right to sue companies that they say fail to provide adequate privacy protections. Industry and government officials worry that independent privacy advocates in Europe will simply invoke the letter of the law and begin taking U.S. companies to court. "I'm not sure the idea of creating safe harbors will be practical, because people can still go ahead and sue a company regardless of whether the governments reach an agreement among themselves," said Christopher Kuner, a lawyer in Frankfurt who specializes in European information law. In the short term, government and industry officials predict that nothing much will happen. Most countries have yet to implement their own laws to carry out the directive. And several countries, including Germany, have had tough laws in place for years, and companies have found ways to deal with the requirements. One of the pioneering cases in Germany involved Citibank, which ran afoul of German data-protection authorities in 1995. But since Citibank, which has a major business presence in Germany, demonstrated to government officials there how its system protected data in the United States, it has operated without conflicts. Executives of American Express Co. said they had reached similar agreements in many countries and that they believed they could live with the new directive. "It is a crucial issue for us, but it has not been a burden so far," said James Tobin, an American Express spokesman in London. John Borking, vice president of the Data Protection Authority of the Netherlands, said, "We are not information police, and I expect that in the whole of Europe nothing will happen." But, added Borking, European governments will always take privacy protection seriously. "We are at the beginning of a new information society, and no one really knows the outcome," he said. "But privacy and trust are important parts of this society." Copyright 1998 The New York Times Company --------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------ ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research and educational purposes only. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases (up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message "Please enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to: ISPIClips at ama-gi.com . The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia (Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no government funding and takes a global perspective. ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research into electronic, personal and financial privacy with a view toward helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy. But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and generous financial support. If you are concerned about the erosion of your privacy in general, won't you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI Supporter" or by taking out an institute Membership? We gratefully accept all contributions: Less than $60 ISPI Supporter $60 - $99 Primary ISPI Membership (1 year) $100 - $300 Senior ISPI Membership (2 years) More than $300 Executive Council Membership (life) Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership. For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com . We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to any third party. **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Tue Oct 27 19:36:49 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:36:49 +0800 Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.68: No Data Flow Disruption Between EU & US--at Least for Now Message-ID: <199810280309.TAA27131@netcom13.netcom.com> From: "ama-gi ISPI" Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.68: No Data Flow Disruption Between EU & US--at Least for Now Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 02:33:46 -0800 To: ISPI Clips 5.68: No Data Flow Disruption Between EU & US--at Least for Now. News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) Tuesday October 27, 1998 ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This From: CNET News.com, October 25, 1998 http://www.news.com European privacy deadline nears http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,27920,00.html By Tim Clark Staff Writer, CNET News.com The European Union will not disrupt the flow of data between Europe and the United States, even though strict new privacy protections took effect in Europe yesterday, a key Commerce Department official said today. The new European Union privacy directive prohibits sending personal data to nations whose privacy protections aren't as vigorous as in the 15-country bloc, but Commerce undersecretary David Aaron said today that the Europeans have agreed to open formal negotiations on how U.S. firms can comply with it. U.S. diplomats have been discussing the issue with the European Commission for six months, in talks described as discussions rather than as negotiations. "We believe we can reach a resolution, and we think it is imperative that we do so promptly," Aaron said, naming December 15 as a target to close the matter. "The U.S. premise is that the United States has effective privacy protection but that the approach here is different than in Europe," he said. "We will seek an arrangement that provides a workable framework on both sides of Atlantic, where data will be secured and disruption of transatlantic data flows will be avoided." The EU's privacy directive, if enforced, could prevent database marketing firms, Web sites, U.S. firms with European employees, and credit card companies from sending personal data back to the United States. That's because the privacy directive bars export of data to nations whose protection of personal data is not certified to be as strong as Europe's. The issue remains a sticking point despite earlier hints from the White House that the problem would be settled by now. Months of discussions have led U.S. officials to hope that the private sector-led approach favored by the Clinton administration can be reconciled with strict privacy laws in many European nations. The United States is proposing a concept dubbed "safe harbor:" In the absence of U.S. privacy legislation, American firms could voluntarily adhere to a set of privacy practices such as those from TRUSTe http://www.truste.org/ ], the business-backed U.S. privacy group pushing voluntary privacy guidelines on the Internet. The U.S. and the European Union will negotiate as to the content of privacy guidelines that would be considered acceptable protections to allow U.S. firms to send personal data on individuals from Europe to the United States. "If companies did that, privacy protections would be considered 'adequate,' and there would be a presumption that data would be able to flow," the U.S. official said. TRUSTe executive director Susan Scott has spoken favorably in recent weeks about the safe harbor concept, and she outlined the idea to the Europeans earlier this year. But privacy law advocate Marc Rotenberg, executive director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center, isn't sure the safe harbor concept will fly. "The U.S. had been saying there was going to be some big agreement, but there isn't one," said Rotenberg, who favors strong U.S. privacy laws. "So there is still a question as to whether U.S. firms will be blocked by the EU directive." Copyright � 1995-98 CNET, Inc. --------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------ ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research and educational purposes only. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases (up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message "Please enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to: ISPIClips at ama-gi.com . The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia (Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no government funding and takes a global perspective. ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research into electronic, personal and financial privacy with a view toward helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy. But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and generous financial support. If you are concerned about the erosion of your privacy in general, won't you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI Supporter" or by taking out an institute Membership? We gratefully accept all contributions: Less than $60 ISPI Supporter $60 - $99 Primary ISPI Membership (1 year) $100 - $300 Senior ISPI Membership (2 years) More than $300 Executive Council Membership (life) Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership. For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com . We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to any third party. **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Tue Oct 27 19:37:35 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:37:35 +0800 Subject: IP: CIA admits drug trafficking, cover-up Message-ID: <199810280309.TAA27153@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: CIA admits drug trafficking, cover-up Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 09:43:07 -0600 To: believer at telepath.com Source: WorldNetDaily http://www.WorldNetDaily.com/ronthal/981027.comlr.shtml CIA admits drug trafficking, cover-up COPYRIGHT 1998 WorldNetDaily This isn't the CIA report you may be thinking of, the one from last January in which that agency swore up and down it "could find no evidence" for any contra-drug ties. No. This is the other one -- Volume 2, dated October 8, 1998. The one in which the CIA quietly, quietly admits it allowed cocaine to be exported and sold to American citizens to help fund the contras. Back in March, the CIA's Inspector General, Fred Hitz, told Congress that the CIA had maintained relationships with companies and individuals that it knew to be involved in the drug business, and furthermore, that the CIA had received from the Justice Department clearance not to report any knowledge it might have of drug-dealing by CIA assets. Here's ample evidence for the latter at least: random highlights from the report include "Exclusion of Narcotics Violations from Scope of Reportable Non-employee Crimes" -- "DoJ and CIA discussed the issue of whether narcotics violations should be in the list of reportable crimes and the parties arrived at an understanding where CIA would only report 'serious, not run-of-the-mill, narcotics violations.' ... According to Cohen, CIA's main concern was the collection of intelligence on narcotics, not law enforcement." There's also some Clintonesque toe-twisting about the exact definition of "employee" here: Between August 15, 1979 and March 2, 1982, CIA was required by the April 15, 1979 Attorney General's guidelines under E.O. 12036 and HN 7-39 to report to DoJ any narcotics trafficking allegations relating to individuals, assets, or independent contractors who were associated with the Contras because assets and independent contractors were considered "employees" for crimes reporting purposes. As of March 2, 1982, the terms of the 1982 CIA-DoJ Crimes Reporting MOU under E.O. 12333 no longer required that CIA report to DoJ narcotics trafficking allegations regarding individuals, assets, or independent contractors associated with the Contras because assets and independent contractors were not considered "employees" for crimes reporting purposes. Note also recollections of "remarks by CATF chief Alan Fiers (who had direct responsibility for management of the Nicaraguan and Central American programs) to the effect that there had been some credible reporting of narcotics trafficking in the Southern Front (Costa Rica)." In short, here's vindication for journalist Gary Webb after all -- despite his regrettable subsequent co-optation by and collaboration with the conspiracy theorists of the left, who claimed the introduction of drugs into the inner cities was itself a deliberate racist-genocidal government policy. Want more? Read the report; read Webb's original book , though it's sadly marred by the Maxine Waters introduction; read, also, Whiteout by Alexander Cockburn and Jeffrey St. Clair, which covers not only the CIA's drug trafficking involvement, but the campaign to discredit Webb as well -- it's the book the CIA doesn't want you to read. It really IS the economy, stupid In political philosophy, there's a fine line between the visionary innovator and the cryptoutopian crackpot. The Economic Government Group pushes that line. Formed out of concern that "the freedom movement was focused too closely on devising ways to minimize the state and not enough on developing workable alternatives to it," it works to let the marketplace become the means by which government is created and maintained. Its Web site, Economic.net , carries not one but two introductions to its occasionally loony, but occasionally blisteringly creative ideas; I recommend Stephen H. Foerster's good straightforward summary of this take-no-prisoners free-market philosophy. Fans of the book The Sovereign Individual by J. Davidson and W. Rees-Mogg may find affinities here. Capitalistic self-regulation now in progress Its familiar branded online seal is displayed on more and more reputable merchants' Web sites; its own site offers a variety of privacy resources for both Web publishers and Web users. TRUSTe seeks to build users' trust and confidence on the Internet and, in doing so, accelerate growth of the Internet industry -- all based on a strong understanding of the fact that no single privacy principle is adequate for all situations. Government regulation of the Internet would likely be more rigid, ham-handed, costly to implement, and difficult to repeal than an industry- regulated program such as TRUSTe's. If you sell stuff on the Internet, or know someone who does, using and encouraging the use of TRUSTe just might be doing Web commerce a big favor. The forgotten point of the military The relatively high levels of defense spending today belie serious gaps in our military preparedness. Pork-barreling is grotesquely distorting the direction of the dollars actually appropriated to the services, in a spirit well exemplified by the latest budget from Congress. Meanwhile, America's armed forces are more and more diverted into "peacekeeping" and domestic policing, subjected to the egalitarian schemes of social engineers, and systematically alienated from civilian society. "The lack of a strong military leads only to its more frequent use," former secretary of the Navy John Lehman points out. "America needs forces that are recruited, trained, and directed to do not social services, not international welfare, not peacekeeping, not drug interdiction, but to rain fire and destruction on our enemies if they break the peace and seek to attack us and our close allies. ... The armed services are not just another branch of the civil service." Lehman warns against the misuse of the services for diplomacy or in domestic law enforcement (including drug interdiction). His prescription for the rehabilitation of the military includes restoring the warrior culture of the forces, eliminating politically correct double standards, redressing the civil-military imbalance, and reducing the pork. Somebody had better start listening to him. E - The People "If your car is swallowed up by a pothole the size of Poughkeepsie, E - The People can help you find the person you need to tell about it," claims this community-affairs Web service's front page. Click on "streets," enter your address, and they'll identify your public works commissioner -- and see that your complaint reaches his or her office, even if that office isn't on the Internet (they'll convert your email to a fax). Lots of Web sites offer "easy" access to federal or state officials, but not many provide on this nitty-gritty local level. The site sometimes slows down at busy times, so use patience. The CSPI health crackpots are at it again This time it's soda pop that they're warning you is the devil's instrument. They want it banned from schools, taxes placed on its sale, and an end put to ads for it that target children. When are these querulous suburban Savonarolas' fifteen minutes going to be over? Methinks I detect a certain cooling toward them even now: wonder of wonders, the AP actually noticed this time that they "offered little scientific evidence" for all their dire claims of damaging effects. But I'm not really optimistic; there'll always be a market for scare stories with a moralistic cherry on top. ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Tue Oct 27 19:37:47 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:37:47 +0800 Subject: IP: Cell phone tapping stirs debate Message-ID: <199810280309.TAA27081@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Cell phone tapping stirs debate Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 08:49:06 -0600 To: believer at telepath.com Source: USA Today http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/tech/ctd698.htm 10/22/98- Updated 12:08 PM ET The Nation's Homepage Cell phone tapping stirs debate WASHINGTON -- Law enforcement officials say they need to know where a suspected criminal is when he makes a cellular telephone call. Federal regulators are proposing to give them the capability to find out. The Federal Communications Commission without dissent proposed Thursday that cellular phone companies make technical changes so the FBI, police and other law enforcers -- as long as a court approves -- can locate a person talking on a mobile phone. This and other additional wiretapping capabilities being proposed aim to help law enforcers keep pace with technology. With some 66 million cellular phone customers, police want the authority to legally tap cell phones to track down drug dealers, terrorists and kidnappers. But some groups worry that such a practice could violate privacy. The location proposal is part of a larger plan to implement a 1994 law that requires telecommunications companies to make changes in their networks so police can carry out court-ordered wiretaps in a world of digital technology. The proposal is based on a plan from the telecommunications industry. ''We think this is a positive step forward,'' said Stephen Colgate, the Justice Department's assistant attorney general for administration. ''In many kidnapping cases, it would have been very helpful to have location information.'' But James Dempsey, counsel to the Center for Democracy and Technology, a privacy group, said: ''We're prepared to fight this one every step of the way.'' FCC Chairman Bill Kennard stressed that police would have no access to locations without a court order. ''A lot of people are saying the FCC will turn mobile phones into tracking devices for the FBI and invade Americans' privacy. I don't believe that will be the case,'' Kennard said. With a court order, police already can legally listen in to cell phone conversations, and, in some instances, get information on the caller's location. But not every company has the technical ability to provide a caller's location. This proposal, if adopted, would set up a nationwide requirement for companies to follow. The legal standard for obtaining a location is lower than the standard for a wiretap order in which police must show a judge there is probable cause of criminal activity. Under the proposal, police would only need to show the location is relevant to an investigation. Privacy groups say that means the government could easily track the movements not only of a suspect, but also of associates, friends or relatives. It would give police the ability to obtain the cellular phone user's location at the beginning and end of a wiretapped call. The proposal would provide police with that information based on the cellular tower, or ''cell'' site, where a call originated and ended. That would give information on the caller's location within several city blocks in an urban area to hundreds of square miles in a rural area. The FBI had been seeking more exact location information. The FCC also is expected to tentatively conclude that companies must give police, as long as a court approves, additional capabilities -- beyond minimum technical standards already proposed by the industry -- so their ability to conduct wiretaps won't be thwarted. The additional capabilities being sought by the FBI that were advanced by the FCC include: Letting police listen in on the conversations of all people on a conference call, even if some are put on hold and no longer are talking to the target of a wiretap. Letting police get information when the wiretap target has put someone on hold or dropped someone from a conference call, and letting them find out if the wiretap target has used dialing features -- such as call waiting or call forwarding. Giving police the number dialed by a wiretap target when the suspect, for instance, uses a credit or calling card at a pay phone. Privacy groups and the telephone industry contend the additional capabilities sought by the FBI go beyond the 1994 law and are an attempt to broaden wiretapping powers. The FBI says it merely wants to preserve the ability to conduct legal wiretaps in a world of constantly changing technology. The FCC is involved because the Justice Department, FBI and the telecommunications industry, after three years of negotiations, were unable to reach agreement on the larger plan for implementing the 1994 law. All interested parties will get a chance to offer opinions on the proposal, which could be revised. Kennard wants a final plan adopted by the end of the year. �COPYRIGHT 1998 USA TODAY, a division of Gannett Co. Inc. ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Tue Oct 27 19:37:47 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:37:47 +0800 Subject: IP: [FP] Microsoft puts smart card on table Message-ID: <199810280309.TAA27119@netcom13.netcom.com> From: "ScanThisNews" Subject: IP: [FP] Microsoft puts smart card on table Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 19:56:43 -0600 To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com SCAN THIS NEWS 10/26/98 Microsoft puts smart card on table http://www.news.com/News/Item/0%2C4%2C27923%2C00.html?dd.ne.tx.fs6.1026 By Tim Clark Staff Writer, CNET News.com October 26, 1998 Update: Microsoft tomorrow will announce an extension of its Windows operating system for smart cards, a company spokesman said today. Smart cards, which have very limited memory and processing power, are about the size of a credit card and embedded with a computer chip. The technology is used for storing data on mobile phones, banking online, and paying for phone calls and public transit fares. Microsoft vice president Paul Maritz is scheduled to announce the operating system initiative tomorrow at Cartes 98, a conference on smart card technology in Paris. A new system from Microsoft could bring more acceptance of smart cards in the United States. Smart cards have been used in Europe, which holds more than 80 percent of the market, but have been slow to progress in America, at least in part beacuse of the lack of a standard operating system. Microsoft is bidding to enter that arena, but Sun Microsystems is already active in that space with its JavaCard specification. In addition, Mondex, an e-cash company controlled by MasterCard has its MultOS system designed so cards with different operating systems can work together. The company's interest in smart cards parallels its strategy with Windows CE, a stripped-down version of its PC operating system for consumer electronics devices. In April, Microsoft announced a version of Windows CE for automobiles, gas pumps, industrial controllers, and other uses. The smart-card initiative seeks to go after even smaller, cheaper devices--particularly when rival Sun is targeting the same business. The Microsoft spokesman said card developers could use existing Windows tools to work with their software. The annual Paris show is a major showcase for the smart card industry. Schlumberger, a major French manufacturer of smart cards, today unveiled new software for its cards that transforms a smart card into a security device to identify its holder. Many PC makers have said they will produce machines with smart-card readers built in, a capability that Microsoft has provided in its desktop PC operating systems. Microsoft has a certification and logo program that indicates smart card systems work with Windows NT. ======================================================================= Don't believe anything you read on the Net unless: 1) you can confirm it with another source, and/or 2) it is consistent with what you already know to be true. ======================================================================= Reply to: ======================================================================= To subscribe to the free Scan This News newsletter, send a message to and type "subscribe scan" in the BODY. Or, to be removed type "unsubscribe scan" in the message BODY. For additional instructions see www.efga.org/about/maillist.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "Scan This News" is Sponsored by S.C.A.N. Host of the "FIGHT THE FINGERPRINT!" web page: www.networkusa.org/fingerprint.shtml ======================================================================= **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Tue Oct 27 19:39:22 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:39:22 +0800 Subject: IP: 'Grass-Roots' Lobbyists Unrobed as AT&T Message-ID: <199810280309.TAA27071@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: 'Grass-Roots' Lobbyists Unrobed as AT&T Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 07:46:23 -0500 To: believer at telepath.com Source: Washington Post http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/digest/wtech002.htm 'Grass-Roots' Lobbyists Unrobed as AT&T By Jackie Spinner Washington Post Staff Writer Saturday, October 24, 1998; Page A1 The Prince George's Coalition Against Hidden Taxes billed itself as a "grass-roots" organization when it formed 10 days ago to fight proposed legislation that would charge telecommunications companies seeking to provide new telephone, Internet or other services. In those two weeks, the coalition, which has a paid spokesman and a professional public relations firm at its disposal, has spent $50,000 on radio, newspaper and television ads suggesting that the law would create a "hidden tax" on telephone use for all residential and business customers in Prince George's County. In fact, it is not clear what the legislation would mean for consumers. But this much is certain: There is very little that is "grass roots" about the Prince George's Coalition Against Hidden Taxes, which is a massive lobbying effort by AT&T to quash efforts by Prince George's County to cash in on the emergence of new communications technologies. The media campaign, which Prince George's County Executive Wayne K. Curry (D) called a "disgraceful fraud," demonstrates how much is at stake for a rapidly changing telecommunications industry and for a local government that stands to collect about $6 million a year by taxing providers of new services. Under the proposed legislation, the county would collect 3 percent of gross revenue generated by companies that seek to use public rights of way to lay cable, string wire or plant cellular towers to provide new services. Prince George's County Council members are scheduled to vote on the legislation Wednesday. Prince George's County is the first local jurisdiction in the Washington region to consider a broad telecommunications fee for using public rights of way. Governments across the country are struggling with similar efforts, trying to get fair compensation while encouraging companies to come in and provide services after the 1996 Telecommunications Act opened the doors to competition. AT&T officials said the legislation is unfair and singles out telecommunications firms from other users of public land, such as the Washington Suburban Sanitary Commission, Washington Gas Light Co. and Potomac Electric Power Co. "It's a money grab," said Ross Baker, director of governmental affairs for AT&T in Maryland. "We pay handsomely right now for the occupancy of the right of way." AT&T now pays permit fees and personal property taxes on equipment located on public rights of way in Prince George's. The company estimated those costs to be about $218,000 a year. According to AT&T, all phone customers' monthly bills could increase 3 percent to 15 percent if the legislation is passed because the cost would have to be passed on to consumers. The company said it would indicate on the bill what portion was the result of a "Prince George's County" surcharge. "Telephone bills are going to go up," said Steve Novak, spokesman for the AT&T-led coalition. County officials and the communications lawyer the county hired to draft the legislation dispute that contention. They said the legislation specifically exempts from the fee basic telephone services such as those provided by Bell Atlantic. But telecommunications companies, including Bell Atlantic, would pay a fee for running new Internet lines or providing telephone service over cable wires, something AT&T is exploring in some markets. Companies also would be charged for offering new call waiting and call forwarding features. "This legislation will not cause an increase in the prices of traditional telephone service," said Nicholas P. Miller, the D.C.-based communications lawyer advising the county. "On the other hand, because billing is largely deregulated, we have no control over how the companies may misrepresent the effect of this local rental charge." John Dillon, Bell Atlantic's vice president of external affairs, said the company is opposed to legislation that taxes revenue for any of its activities, traditional or otherwise. "If the county wants to sit down and talk about what costs are not being covered, we will do that," he said. Thomas Haller, president of the Prince George's Chamber of Commerce, which held what it called an emergency meeting yesterday to discuss the legislation, said the bill could deter telecommunications companies from doing business in the county. "If companies are dissuaded from providing telecommunications services here because they can't compete, we're not going to have much competition," Haller said. Novak said AT&T formed the coalition to warn the public about the county's proposal. People calling the coalition to express their concern about the legislation are quickly transferred to the office of their County Council member. "We are trying to educate the public," Novak said. Council member M.H. Jim Estepp (D-Upper Marlboro), who sponsored the legislation, said he received calls from residents at a rate of about 16 an hour during one day this week. Often, he said, callers were disconnected when he started to explain his position. (Novak said the disconnections are not intentional.) "These are big-time tactics, and when big money tries to crush local government, not only are they doing a disservice to the county, that becomes the issue," Estepp said. Curry agreed. "This isn't any citizens coalition. This is a bunch of giant companies trying to profit off the public for free," he said. But AT&T spokesman Stephen H. Clawson said consumers are the ones who will be hurt. "We found out that there was considerable confusion and concern about the legislation," he said. "We have an obligation to our customers." � Copyright 1998 The Washington Post Company ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Tue Oct 27 19:41:08 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:41:08 +0800 Subject: IP: Bioterrorism: America's Newest War Game Message-ID: <199810280309.TAA27092@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Bioterrorism: America's Newest War Game Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 06:07:57 -0600 To: believer at telepath.com Source: The Nation http://www.thenation.com/issue/981109/1109PRIN.HTM BIOTERRORISM AMERICA'S NEWEST WAR GAME BY PETER PRINGLE "Catastrophic Terrorism" roars the headline over an article in the current Foreign Affairs. The three distinguished authors--John Deutch, a former director of Central Intelligence; Ashton Carter, an ex-Pentagon assistant secretary; and Philip Zelikow, a former member of the National Security Council--declare with unswerving certainty that "the danger of weapons of mass destruction being used against America and its allies is greater now than at any time since the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962." Any act of "catastrophic terrorism," they say, could have the effect of Pearl Harbor; it could divide America into a "before and after." This is no shot across the bow of a sleeping ship. America is now spending $7 billion a year defending itself against backpack nuclear bombs, canisters of nerve gas and petri dishes of germ weapons planted in crowded cities by an as-yet-unknown adversary. So many different agencies are shoring up the nation's defenses against mega-terrorism, says the government auditor, that it's hard to keep track of where all the money is going, let alone whether it is being spent wisely. Any new government project tagged with the word "terrorism" goes to the top of the pile in Congress. The Pentagon is ordering devices to sniff out nerve gases and deadly germs. National Guard units that normally deal with floods and hurricanes are being trained as chemical and biological SWAT teams. Under the threat of another war with Iraq, all 2.4 million American troops are being vaccinated against anthrax, and companies are scrambling to provide the vaccines--including, notably, a company founded by Adm. William Crowe Jr., a former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. The FBI wants to send more agents into embassies abroad and is demanding its own planes to shuttle investigative teams around the world. Local and state governments used to dealing with flu epidemics are preparing for the nightmare gas or microbe attack. And one can only imagine what antiterrorist projects the CIA has been dreaming up with its "black" budget of covert ops. Now the players in this new war game have got a new title for their grim pursuit. The thrust of "Catastrophic Terrorism" is a grand reorganization of the Pentagon, CIA and FBI bureaucracies to eliminate the perennial agency overlaps and gaps between "foreign" and "domestic" terrorism. The authors want to pool intelligence at the FBI, create new Catastrophic Terrorism Response Offices, already dubbed CTROs, and cut the two dozen agencies with shopping lists for vaccines, gas sniffers and protective clothing down to one--the Defense Department--because, they say, the Pentagon has the expertise when it comes to rapid acquisition. The operation sounds like it's a few steps short of war mobilization. All but the new title, perhaps, could have been predicted (the original choice, "Grand Terrorism," was rejected on the grounds that there is nothing grand about this method of warfare). Beached by the fall of Communism and the end of the cold war, planners in the Pentagon and military think tanks have been circling a number of new threats: First it was drug wars and then "rogue" states; but international terrorism has an enduring quality in the annals of "threat politics." By dividing the phenomenon into two distinct parts--conventional and catastrophic--Deutch, the quintessential academic/consultant to the Pentagon and the defense industry, and his co-authors have mirrored the old cold war categories of conventional and nuclear weapons. Conventional terrorist weapons are truck bombs filled with fertilizer explosive. Catastrophic terrorist weapons are nuclear, chemical and especially biological--the very weapons President Nixon renounced three decades ago in an effort to prevent their spread to other countries. The sixties US arsenal of biological weapons--then the world's largest and most sophisticated--has come back to haunt those now charged with the defense of the nation. Chemical weapons of mass destruction have been used in state-sponsored warfare--by Iraq against Iran and its own Kurdish population--and fragments of Saddam Hussein's dismantled Scud missiles were alleged by US investigators to have traces of VX, the deadliest of all nerve gases. The worry is that such weapons could also be used by Islamic fundamentalist groups such as the one that President Clinton said he was concerned about when he recently authorized the firing of cruise missiles at a pharmaceutical plant in Sudan--or by groups such as the Japanese cult Aum Shinrikyo, or by homegrown US adherents to survivalism. No one denies the threat of catastrophic terrorism, but the pace at which it has taken center stage as the prime threat to US security is almost as unnerving as the threat itself. In the media, Russian defectors talk alarmingly of new strains of untreatable anthrax and deadly cocktails of smallpox and Ebola; teenage hackers invade super-secret Pentagon computers; Aum Shinrikyo is said to be back in force, if not in action, after the Tokyo subway nerve gas incident; and three Texans are charged with plotting to assassinate President Clinton with a cactus needle coated with botulin flicked from a cigarette lighter. Outside the calm of the international affairs departments of MIT and Harvard (where Deutch and Carter work), or the offices of the Washington Beltway "bandits" bulging with profits from new contracts related to terrorism, or indeed in the Pentagon itself, where new acronyms bloom, a sense of panic is in the air. Expert after expert says it's not a question of if but when this doomsday will occur. The media cast around for bogymen and find Russia with its rusting biological weapons labs and penniless scientists who could aid and abet the new bioterrorists. Actually, in most years since 1980 the number of Americans killed by terrorists has been fewer than ten, but the toll can suddenly jump. In 1983, 271 Americans were killed by terrorist attacks, most of them in the bombing of the Marine barracks in Lebanon. Then came bombs at the World Trade Center in 1993 (six dead, 1,000 injured), the Oklahoma City federal building in 1995 (168 dead, 500 injured) and the Khobar Towers Air Force housing complex in Saudi Arabia in 1996 (nineteen dead, 500 injured). The World Trade Center in New York is often taken as a starting point for the new concern. What if the World Trade Center bomb had been nuclear, or had dispersed a deadly pathogen? In the rush to play a new war game there is always a tendency to hype the threat. Last November Defense Secretary William Cohen appeared on TV holding a bag of sugar claiming the equivalent amount of anthrax spores would be enough to kill half the population of Washington, DC, an illustration that would only be valid if the dispersal were perfect and the wind were always blowing in the right direction. Republican Senator Fred Thompson, chairman of the Senate Governmental Affairs Committee, asked meekly of the terrorist threat, "Is it being overblown?" (The pun was apparently unintended.) There is, after all, no 100 percent protection against chemical or biological weapons--as there was no 100 percent protection against nuclear weapons. That doesn't prevent the rise of a new threat industry, of course, but one must ask whether there is a way of averting catastrophe other than building Fortress America. One of the true believers in the need for elaborate defenses against germ weapons is none other than President Clinton. He became a convert, and started pushing for stockpiles of vaccines, after reading--among all the intelligence reports on terrorism and the Iraq crisis--a novel titled The Cobra Event, about a fictitious germ attack on Manhattan using a mixture of smallpox and cold viruses. Chemical and biological warfare is great fiction material, of course, but are we in danger of being unable to separate fact from fiction? The author of the novel, Richard Preston, also wrote a non-fiction account of the rise of "bioterrorism" in a March issue of The New Yorker. The article quoted a Russian who was involved in the Soviet biological weapons program named Kanatjan Alibekov, who had been the Number Two in charge of the weapons section of the archipelago of Soviet biological plants known as Biopreparat. He "defected" in 1992, a year after the fall of Communism, and changed his name to Ken Alibek. In The New Yorker he said the Soviets had built huge plants for the production of biological weapons. In the 1972 Nixon-negotiated Biological Weapons Convention, which prohibited the development, production and stockpiling of these weapons, there was a loophole; the treaty did not prevent countries from building a production line for such weapons and keeping it in reserve. This is what the Soviets did--something US intelligence had known about for some time. But Alibek claims that the Russians had actually used these facilities to produce tons of deadly anthrax, some of which had been genetically engineered so that available vaccines were useless, and some of which may have been put into the warheads of intercontinental ballistic missiles. Alibek also asserted that the Russians had experimented with deadly cocktails of smallpox spiked with the Ebola virus, which causes internal hemorrhaging, and with Venezuelan equine encephalitis, a brain virus. For almost a dozen breathless pages, The New Yorker treated its readers to gruesome details of the power of these pathogens, pausing only when the author, himself out of puff, asked the key question: Does anyone believe Alibek? Or is he, as a defector who has apparently outlived his usefulness to the CIA's covert intelligence world, trying to make a buck in civvy street by exaggerating the importance of his information? Preston consulted an old cold warrior, Bill Patrick, the retired US biological warfare expert who was chief of product development for the US Army's biological warfare laboratories at Fort Detrick, Maryland. Patrick, quite reasonably for an old campaigner, takes the defector on trust; if Alibek doesn't know what the Soviets were doing, then who does? But other scientific experts, not given a hearing until page twelve of the thirteen-page New Yorker article, ranged from skeptical to dismissive. One was Dr. Peter Jahrling, the chief scientist at the US Army medical research Institute of Infectious Diseases. He was one of Alibek's original debriefers. Jahrling told The New Yorker, "His [Alibek's] talk about chimeras [mixtures] of Ebola is sheer fantasy, in my opinion." Preston also consulted Joshua Lederberg, the Nobel Prize�winning molecular biologist and a member of a working group at the National Academy of Sciences who advises the government on biological weapons and the potential for terrorism. Lederberg told Preston, "It's not even clear to me that adding Ebola genes to smallpox would make it more deadly." Putting these comments higher up in the article would have been more responsible journalism, clearly, but it would also have spoiled the story. The week before the New Yorker article ran, Alibek was given his first television exposure, on Diane Sawyer's PrimeTime Live show. "Biological weapons. They're real, they're here...smallpox, Ebola, anthrax," was how the hourlong show began. Alibek told Sawyer that the Russians had created a deadly genetic merger of smallpox and Ebola. "In this case, [the] mortality rate [is] about 90 percent, up to 100 percent. No treatment techniques," warned Alibek. "How many people could they have killed?" Sawyer asked him. "The entire population of Earth several times," he replied. ABC generously shared Alibek with the New York Times, which, in return, promoted Sawyer's show on its front page with an interview with the former Soviet scientist--including a warning (not mentioned by Sawyer) that Alibek was considered by US intelligence to be credible about the "subjects he knows firsthand...[but] less reliable on political and military issues." Sawyer's search for Soviet malfeasance took her to Ekaterinburg (formerly the Soviet city of Sverdlovsk), where, in 1979, an accidental release of anthrax spores from a Soviet military compound killed more than sixty people. After reports of the accident reached the West through Soviet �migr�s, Moscow claimed the deaths were because of anthrax-tainted meat (anthrax is endemic in the region). Matthew Meselson, the Harvard molecular biologist and the scientist who was instrumental in persuading Nixon to outlaw biological weapons in 1969, led a team of investigators to Sverdlovsk. In 1994 Meselson proved in an article in Science, the journal of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, that in fact there had been a release of anthrax spores from the military compound, and he confirmed nearly seventy deaths. But Sawyer, who spent four months researching the show, never interviewed Meselson or anyone from his team, including Jeanne Guillemin, a sociologist at Boston College who had cross-checked a Russian casualty list with hospital records, local interviews and grave sites. Instead, Sawyer referred to an unnamed director of a Sverdlovsk military hospital as saying there had been 259 victims--but not how many of the victims had died. Sawyer's staff called Professor Meselson the night before the program aired, but merely to ask his help with the pronunciation of a number of drugs used to treat the victims: penicillin, cephalosporin, chloramphenicol and corticosteroids. In a further effort to suggest that more spookiness was afoot, Sawyer recorded that at the end of 1997 Russian scientists had published a paper in the British medical journal Vaccine describing the creation of a genetically engineered anthrax strain that was resistant to standard Russian anthrax vaccine. "Might the Russians be creating germs that can resist vaccines?" asked Sawyer. But was there really anything sinister about the Russian work? Were the Russian experiments threatening a new kind of catastrophic terrorism, or were Russian scientists simply studying the lethality of anthrax, which is endemic in Russia? Sawyer didn't mention that Western intelligence had known about the new anthrax strains for almost two years--from an unclassified International Workshop on Anthrax held at Winchester, England, in September 1995. The Russian scientists had openly described their experiments at the meeting sponsored by a number of commercial, charitable and professional organizations independent of the US and British governments. Bioterrorism, biocriminals, bioweaponeers--all good buzzwords for novelists and movie makers who will continue to sound alarms and attract influential followers, no doubt; but the fact is, there have been only two serious uses of biological weapons in this century: one by the Japanese Imperial Army against China, and the other a failed attempt by Aum Shinrikyo to disperse anthrax spores. So if there are terrorists out there wanting to use biological or chemical or nuclear weapons, how good is our intelligence about them? In hearings before Congress in 1995 the CIA admitted that its terrorism intelligence desk somehow missed the 1994 sarin gas attack by Aum Shinrikyo in Matsumoto, which killed seven people--although the event had been reported in the Japanese and European press and even in the US-owned International Herald Tribune. Such revelations suggest that a new, multi-agency National Intelligence Center, as proposed by Deutch et al. in Foreign Affairs, might not only be a good idea but a necessity. But why a whole new bureaucracy? Why the Manhattan Project syndrome? The Aum Shinrikyo story suggests that a small band of well-trained researchers who tap into publicly available information could be as useful as national information centers, wiretaps and grand jury investigations. The risk in rushing to meet the new threat--any new threat--with new departments of counter-espionage and counter-weapons is that the old art of deterrence through international treaties will take a back seat. The United States already has a policy that criminalizes terrorist activity at home, including the post�Oklahoma City Anti-Terrorism Act of 1996. It also supports sanctions against countries promoting terrorism and corporations exporting material that could be used to produce weapons of mass destruction. In the article on catastrophic terrorism, Deutch et al. mention the proposal of Harvard professor Meselson and his law professor colleague, Philip Heymann, for an international convention making it a crime for individuals to engage in the production of biological or chemical weapons. The existing chemical and biological conventions apply only to states. The idea is to deter national leaders, such as Saddam Hussein, and groups such as Aum Shinrikyo, from seeking to develop chemical or biological weapons, and to discourage corporations from assisting them because the scientist or the CEO could be arrested. If such a treaty had existed and been supported by the United States in the eighties when Iraq was using poison gas and developing biological weapons, the suppliers and advisers on whom Saddam depended could have been brought to trial. The proposal is being co-promoted by Meselson's longtime ally in the fight to eliminate chemical and biological weapons, Julian Perry Robinson of the University of Sussex in England. The crimes are carefully defined in the precise language of the chemical and biological conventions, now ratified by 120 and 141 countries respectively. Under the proposed law any nation that is party to the existing conventions would be bound either to prosecute or to extradite a violator. Such treaties already in effect are aimed at piracy, genocide, airline hijacking and harming diplomats on active duty. If the proposal becomes law, terrorists would have their support group cut from under them; there is even the suggestion of a reward for anyone who provides information leading to a perpetrator's arrest. Maybe the fiction writers will pick up the idea too. Then, who knows whether the FBI or some adventurer from the plaintiff's bar--bringing, say, a class action on behalf of aggrieved shareholders of a company caught trading in anthrax--will be the first to be responsible for the arrest of the culprits? The next generation of terror novels should be filled with "biocriminals" and "chemothugs." For an alternative view, and relief from the drumbeat of the New Threat merchants, one can turn to this quarter's Foreign Policy, a rival of Foreign Affairs. In an article titled "The Great Superterrorism Scare," Ehud Sprinzak, a professor of political science at Jerusalem's Hebrew University, suggests that the voices of doom are mistaken. Their concept of post�cold war chaos breeding terrorist fanatics is simply not supported by the evidence of three decades. "Despite the lurid rhetoric, a massive terrorist attack with nuclear, chemical, or biological weapons is hardly inevitable. It is not even likely," he writes. "Terrorists wish to convince us that they are capable of striking from anywhere at any time, but there is really no chaos. In fact, terrorism involves predictable behavior, and the vast majority of terrorist organizations can be identified well in advance." Such views tend to go unheard by doomsayers. The Republicans added $9 billion to the military budget, including several additional millions for antiterrorism projects, by emphasizing unpreparedness--sure to be a big issue in Election 2000. --- Peter Pringle, a British journalist, reported on the end of the cold war from Washington and Moscow for The Independent of London. Join a discussion in the Digital Edition Forums. Or send your letter to the editor to letters at thenation.com. The Nation Digital Edition http://www.thenation.com Copyright (c) 1998, The Nation Company, L.P. ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From stuffed at stuffed.net Wed Oct 28 11:47:17 1998 From: stuffed at stuffed.net (STUFFED WED OCT 28) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:47:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY! 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Full instructions on unsubscribing are in every issue of Eureka! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- From needshelp at mindspring.net Tue Oct 27 20:27:09 1998 From: needshelp at mindspring.net (John) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 12:27:09 +0800 Subject: lotus notes id file Message-ID: <000001be0217$6a534ce0$0a07020a@jbivins> Hello I'm using lotus notes and I have a big problem. I have a id file with no password. How can I get a password for it or reset it. Is there some type of utility or something someone knows of?I have been told that I'm out of luck unless I have the original. John... From emergency at yahoo.com Wed Oct 28 14:21:17 1998 From: emergency at yahoo.com (emergency at yahoo.com) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 14:21:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <989.283923.888827 emergency@yahoo.com> 10/28/98 Y2K Solution! 8 Pine Circle Dr., Silicon Valley, Calif. OTC Company "TCFG" 21 st. Century Frontier Group has through several members of their administrative research department leaked vital information about their companies efforts... Everyone was tight lipped and interviews were refused, and through un-named sources we have learned that the technology and software solution are in the process of being patented! In over 1640 trials, using various data systems the use of the new technology and software solved the Y2K problem 100% of the time. This small publicly traded company "TCFG" which is just 3 years old is through various sources now negotiating with the "Big Boys"! "TCFG" the letters to look for! From bill.stewart at pobox.com Tue Oct 27 23:25:33 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 15:25:33 +0800 Subject: FWD: Judge does right thing - Rio goes to market Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981027012937.00b80100@idiom.com> This is forwarded from the cyberia-l list; looks like the judge has done the right thing (or at least for this phase) by allowing the Rio MP3 player to be shipped. Yeah! >Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 03:29:39 -0400 >Sender: Law & Policy of Computer Communications >From: Michael Sims >Subject: Rio goes to market > >http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/98/10/cyber/articles/27rio.html >http://www.mp3.com/news/116.html >http://www.mp3.com/news/117.html > >The Judge in the Diamond Multimedia/RIAA lawsuit declines to extend >her earlier order barring the shipment of the Rio device. > >"However, in the 18 page ruling handed down today, Judge Collins >found that the plaintiff did not demonstrate a causal relationship >between the Rio and unauthorized copying. Furthermore, she found that >the Rio did not violate the AHRA in such a way as to warrant an >injunction." > >-- >Michael Sims The Censorware Project > http://censorware.org >He who breaks a thing to find out what it is, has left the path of wisdom. >Or is well on the way to becoming an engineer. > > Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From bill.stewart at pobox.com Tue Oct 27 23:26:02 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 15:26:02 +0800 Subject: EU Privacy Directive In-Reply-To: <19981019195132.27759.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981027225259.00b81e10@idiom.com> At 09:39 AM 10/20/98 +0200, Theodor.SCHLICKMANN at bxl.dg13.cec.be wrote: >Those who are affected in the first place are US companies who >are used to collect and process personal data from their customers >without any embarrassment. They will be excluded from >the European market, if they do not follow European Data >Protection rules. > >Until now the US goverment has decided to leave this matter >to self regulation. However, US industry did not manage to >come up with an appropriate codex. The big problem in the US isn't the government's failure to tell big companies what protection to provide for their transactions - it's their insistence on adding more and more requirements that businesses, especially banks, and local governments, collect and retain information that makes data correlation simpler, and creation of database systems that collect more information. The most common are the requirement for SSNs as a tax-collection ID for banks and employers, and the use of the SSN for Medicare making it simplest for medical insurance companies to use it as an ID. Then of course there's the near-universal requirement for collecting SSNs in return for drivers' licenses, and "deadbeat dad databases" that require employers to register new employees in government databases, even those of us who are neither dads nor deadbeats. Once all your transactions have personal identifiers on them, it's nearly trivial to track everything that you do. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From Theodor.SCHLICKMANN at BXL.DG13.cec.be Wed Oct 28 01:31:09 1998 From: Theodor.SCHLICKMANN at BXL.DG13.cec.be (Theodor.SCHLICKMANN at BXL.DG13.cec.be) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 17:31:09 +0800 Subject: Right of privacy In-Reply-To: <199810280135.TAA10758@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: > One thing I know is that the social potential for video cameras in relation > to traffic management are immense. The problem is that their potential for > abuse when coupled with other sorts of technologies is absolutely > frightening. I don't believe that potential is enough to avoid them out of > hand. > > > It is not only communication. > > Privacy is also needed on public places (e.g., violated by face > recognition systems), > > at work places (e.g.,violated by telephone tapping), for your body (e.g., > endangered by > > abortion control), > > No, what is needed in public places is anonymity. We want to be treated > just > like everyone else. We specificaly don't want any identity. It is important to set clear guidlines and codes of practice for such technological innovations, well in advance of the digital revolution making new and unforseen opportunities to collate, analyze, recognise and store such visual images. Such regulation will need to be founded on sound data protection principles and take cognizance of article 15 of the European Data Protection Directive. Essentially it says that: "Member States shall grant the right of every person not to be subject to a decision which produces legal effects concerning him or significantly affects him and which is based solely on the automatic processing of data". The attitude to CCTV camera networks varies greatly in the European Union, from the position in Denmark where such cameras ar banned by law to the position in the UK, where you can find one of the most advanced CCTV network coverage in Europe and where the issue of regulation and control have been perhaps more developed then anywhere else. From dave at bureau42.ml.org Wed Oct 28 02:38:55 1998 From: dave at bureau42.ml.org (David E. Smith) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 18:38:55 +0800 Subject: Yet Another letter from Toto Message-ID: This letter, pornmarked 23 October 1998 from Springfield Missouri, has some good requests and the usual style of Toto-esque humor that we've all grown accustomed to. I hope I got the drug names spelled right, or at least as close to it as he did, because I know about some of these drugs and it sounds serious. (begin letter) Dave, I need some medical info, and Attila has shared some excellent material in the past with me, so I was hoping he might be able to send me Information Sheets on a few medications. (e.g. # Uses/Side Effects/Precuations/Interactions/etc.) I'd like info on Zoloft, Zestril, Lithium, & Deprecote (?sp) - orange-ish liquid capsules - ... and Tegretol and Respiradahl (?sp) Also, if he could find any InterNet material on Dr. Ruth Braun's current Tourette/Rage work, or similar info, I would appreciate him sending it to me. If I get much more Government `Help,' I'm going to be Dead, soon... (I think if you tell the shrinks here that you feel suicidal they handcuff your hands behind your back, stand you on the toilet, and suspend you from the light fixture by a rope around your neck - so that you don't hurt yourself, eh?) I'm trying to produce as much CypherSpam as possible while in Prison, so that the CypherPunks computers don't get Dusty & Moldy from sitting around with nothing to do. (I figure my best chance at being released from Prison is if the Manufacturers of Keys petition the GovernMint in order to restore falling sales. "If it saves the life of a single innocent KillFile...") I'm learning a Trade at #9... Cuckoo Clock! Later Dude, Toto (end letter) ...dave From tex at isc.upenn.edu Wed Oct 28 04:24:49 1998 From: tex at isc.upenn.edu (Jon 'tex' Boone) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 20:24:49 +0800 Subject: MIB Subponeas In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19981026144314.038c6020@rboc.net> Message-ID: Tim May writes: > > * What about lawyer expenses? I know the line about "If you cannot afford one, > one will be appointed for you," but I've never understood what test of > "afford" is being used. If called before a grand jury, will they pay for a > lawyer? (E.g., if I decide I can't "afford" to pay some shyster to interpret > their legalese into ordinary English.) (I assume there is some nonsense > about indigence, but can they force someone to prove he has no money? What > if he money, but he needs that $5000 for school tuition more than he needs > to give it to Johnny Cockroach for a day's worth of shystering?) Tim, It is my understanding, from my brother in law (who is a practicing attorney in Pennsylvania) and from my sister's participation in a case in Texas that one does not have the right to have legal counsel present at a Grand Jury session. -- -------------------------------------------------- Jon 'tex' Boone Senior Network Engineer ISC Networking University of Pennsylvania tex at isc.upenn.edu (215) 898-2477 From Marti at cestel.es Wed Oct 28 21:33:12 1998 From: Marti at cestel.es (Marti at cestel.es) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 21:33:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: Hi Message-ID: < > Do you know what the number one factor is, that will determine whether your business is a success or not? ADVERTISING! Effective conventional advertising is quite expensive. So what do you do? Direct email is one of, if not thee most effective method of advertising in the 90's. You can get your ad out to hundreds of thousands, even millions, for only a fraction of the cost of traditional advertising. The wave of future advertising is here, don't miss it. We will send your advert for you. We have gone through painstaking methods to insure that we have the the most quality lists on the Internet. We send your ad for your, all you have to do is create it. 250,000 addresses - $199 350,000 addresses - $250 500,000 addresses - $350 1 million addresses - $700 (HALLOWEEN SPECIAL 1 MILLION ONLY $500, OFFER GOOD UNTIL OCTOBER 31ST) For advertising to 3 million or more ask about our special rates. For more information or to place an ad call us at (702) 294-7769 between the hours of 11 am - 3 pm Pacific. Mon-Fri. From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Oct 28 06:09:37 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 22:09:37 +0800 Subject: Forwarded mail... Message-ID: <199810281330.HAA12754@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: Theodor.SCHLICKMANN at BXL.DG13.cec.be > Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 10:04:17 +0100 > Subject: Re: Right of privacy > It is important to set clear guidlines and codes of practice for such > technological innovations, well in advance of the digital revolution > making new and unforseen opportunities to collate, analyze, recognise > and store such visual images. How does one pass laws to regulate something that doesn't exist yet? > The attitude to CCTV camera networks varies greatly in the European Union, > from the position in Denmark where such cameras ar banned by law to the > position in the UK, where you can find one of the most advanced CCTV network > coverage in Europe and where the issue of regulation and control have been > perhaps more developed then anywhere else. Are there any discussions about this dichotomy and how it came to pass? Something that asks the question of why they chose such widely seperate approaches? I would personaly guess the British have gotten a little paranoid they're set for pay-back-time since their empire's been crumbling for 200 years. I'm much less familiar with Dannish history (post-WWII) and how they developed this respect for Big Brother and its potential. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From renegade at texoma.net Wed Oct 28 06:16:58 1998 From: renegade at texoma.net (Renegade) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 22:16:58 +0800 Subject: Airline ID Checking (was: RE: your mail) In-Reply-To: <19981027190715.184.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981027223012.007bd4e0@texoma.net> At 12:44 PM 10/27/1998 -0700, X wrote: >Does anyone know what the airlines do with the info they collect off the ID? >Are they just noting whether the names match, or is it more sinister? This has nothing to do with security. They are checking to make sure the name matchs the ticket. Airlines like to think their tickets are non-transferable, and they use this method to make sure john doe did not buy the ticket from joe shmoe. -Renegade From ogrenivek at yahoo.com Wed Oct 28 06:30:17 1998 From: ogrenivek at yahoo.com (Joel O'Connor) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 22:30:17 +0800 Subject: lotus notes id file Message-ID: <19981028132659.15316.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com> Sorry guy, no gettingout of dodge on this one. There are no utilities, no programs, no way out. The only way to do this is to copy the "mail file" which will be in the c:\notes\data directory and blow away the id and recreate it. Then after this, copy the mail file back into the data directory. This will recreate your desktop view with the original folders and messages that you had. Otherwise, you're screwed. ---John wrote: > > Hello > I'm using lotus notes and I have a big problem. I have a id file with no > password. How can I get a password for it or reset it. Is there some type of > utility or something someone knows of?I have been told that I'm out of luck > unless I have the original. > > > John... > > > > == Ogre bounces like sonar. . .Peace. Ogre _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From monitor at millenium.com Wed Oct 28 06:51:24 1998 From: monitor at millenium.com (monitor at millenium.com) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 22:51:24 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <989.283923.242667 monitor@millenium.com> 10/28/98 Y2K Solution! 8 Pine Circle Dr., Silicon Valley, Calif. OTC Company "TCFG" 21 st. Century Frontier Group has through several members of their administrative research department leaked vital information about their companies efforts... Everyone was tight lipped and interviews were refused, and through un-named sources we have learned that the technology and software solution are in the process of being patented! In over 1640 trials, using various data systems the use of the new technology and software solved the Y2K problem 100% of the time. This small publicly traded company "TCFG" which is just 3 years old is through various sources now negotiating with the "Big Boys"! "TCFG" the letters to look for..... From advisor at compuserve.com Wed Oct 28 06:59:11 1998 From: advisor at compuserve.com (advisor at compuserve.com) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 22:59:11 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199810281358.FAA13997@toad.com> 10/28/98 Y2K Solution! 8 Pine Circle Dr., Silicon Valley, Calif. USA OTC Company "TCFG" 21 st. Century Frontier Group has through several members of their administrative research department leaked vital information about their companies efforts. Everyone was tight lipped and interviews were refused, and through un-named sources we have learned that the technology and software solution are in the process of being patented! In over 1640 trials, using various data systems the use of the new technology and software solved the Y2K problem 100% of the time. This small publicly traded company "TCFG" which is just 3 years old is through various sources now negotiating with the "Big Boys"! "TCFG" the letters to look for! From listmaster at extensis.com Wed Oct 28 23:17:01 1998 From: listmaster at extensis.com (listmaster at extensis.com) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 23:17:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: Manage your Assets, Simplify your Life---- Extensis Portfolio 4.0 Message-ID: Introducing the Newest Version of our Asset Management Software-Extensis Portfolio 4.0 http://www.extensis.com/products/Portfolio/ - Organize your assets -images, text, photos, multimedia- for instant-access - NEW! Import information from other databases - NEW! Robust scripting now facilitates database and internet publishing - NEW! Slideshow feature provides full-screen display of images - NEW! 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Portfolio 4.0 System Requirements: Macintosh Mac OS 7.5.3 - 8.5 PowerPC, 32 MB of RAM Windows Windows 95, 98 or NT 4.0 Pentium, 32 MB of RAM Portfolio Server 4.0 System Requirements Windows Win NT 4.0, Pentium, 32 MB RAM Macintosh Macintosh version available late 1998 PS. We have made every effort to ensure this message is being sent only to people who have expressed interest in Extensis products. If we have sent this to you in error, please accept our apologies and reply with "REMOVE" in the subject line for automatic exclusion from future communications. If you know someone who would like to be on our mailing list have them send an email to listmaster at extensis.com with "ADD" in the subject line and their email address in the body. P.P.S. This message is intended for North American customers. If you are located outside of North America and have received this message, please visit www.extensis.com/purchase/ to find the nearest local distributor in your country. From Harold.Lockhart at platinum.com Wed Oct 28 07:39:48 1998 From: Harold.Lockhart at platinum.com (Hal Lockhart) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 23:39:48 +0800 Subject: dbts: Cryptographic Dog Stocks, The Dirigible Biplane, and Sending the Wizards Back to Menlo Park In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19981028100547.00a39c1c@pop.bos.platinum.com> At 06:02 PM 10/26/98 -0400, Vin McLellan wrote: > No one who knows anything about SDTI and that market would say that >the only thing SDTI has that is worth anything is its stake in Verisign >(and, of course, it was Rob, not the Globe, who said that.) I've been waiting for somebody to mention that (according to www.ncipher.com) one of the primary investors in Ncipher, which is the company Bob touted in the rant that started this thread, is none other than SDTI. They also list investments by Newbridge and no less than three V.C. companies. Seems at odds with Bob's claim that they "used little, if any, venture capital money". However, I have not information about the history or extent of investment in this company, so I bow to Bob's insider knowledge. (Bob, I thought you were going to stop posting insider knowledge to this list. Or was it that you were going to stop NOT posting ...) As an aside about Ncipher, while I am sure they are smart guys and will do well, isn't a hardware crypto engine pretty much a commodity product? How can a company like this resist an onslaught from an IBM or an Intel if they decided this niche was large enough to go after? Regards, Hal ==================================================================== Harold W. Lockhart Jr. PLATINUM technology Chief Technical Architect 8 New England Executive Park Email: Harold.Lockhart at platinum.com Burlington, MA 01803 USA Voice: (781)273-6406 Fax: (781)229-2969 ==================================================================== From Harold.Lockhart at platinum.com Wed Oct 28 07:52:57 1998 From: Harold.Lockhart at platinum.com (Hal Lockhart) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 23:52:57 +0800 Subject: dbts: Cryptographic Dog Stocks, The Dirigible Biplane, and Sending the Wizards Back to Menlo Park In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19981028095039.00a435fc@pop.bos.platinum.com> At 06:02 PM 10/26/98 -0400, Vin McLellan wrote: > For 30-odd years, info security professionals have used a model >which declares that there are only three ways for a machine to validate or >authenticate that a remote human is the person who was initially identified >and enrolled (by a trusted Admin) as the user authorized to use a computer >account: > >_"something known," a memorized password or PIN; >_"something held," a physical token that can be carried as a personal >identifier; or >_"something one is," a biometric like a fingerprint or voiceprint. However, formal security theory, dating back before the invention of PK has recognized that authorization systems can be just as effectively based on a Capability model as an Identity model. A bearer token in my mind, is nothing more than a kind of Capability. The idea is that what you really want to know is "should this request be permitted." Using identity to determine this is just a way of adding a level of indirection to the algorithm. In a capability model, the answer is presented directly. The debate over these models has always revolved around efficiency. I will not review that here, except to note that while capabilities usually take their lumps for not being able to scale well, pure identity models do not scale either. It is always necessary to introduce some form of aggregation, such as groups, roles, citizens, credit card holders, whatever, that reduces the number of individual rules that must be managed, stored and referenced. Therefore, while you may reasonably argue that dbs will not work or scale or whatever for one reason or another, you cannot argue that it is not supported by formal security theory. Regards, Hal ==================================================================== Harold W. Lockhart Jr. PLATINUM technology Chief Technical Architect 8 New England Executive Park Email: Harold.Lockhart at platinum.com Burlington, MA 01803 USA Voice: (781)273-6406 Fax: (781)229-2969 ==================================================================== From Harold.Lockhart at platinum.com Wed Oct 28 08:10:30 1998 From: Harold.Lockhart at platinum.com (Hal Lockhart) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 00:10:30 +0800 Subject: log files (was: Re: dbts: Cryptographic Dog Stocks, The Dirigible Biplane, and Sending the Wizards Back to Menlo Park ) In-Reply-To: <199810262226.RAA12688@postal.research.att.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19981028093825.00a3f2d0@pop.bos.platinum.com> At 05:26 PM 10/26/98 -0500, Steve Bellovin wrote: >Leaving aside the rest of this discussion, Vin touches on a point that >I think has been ignored by some: operations demand log files. That >is -- and I'm doffing my security hat here and donning the hat of someone >who has been running computer systems and networks for 30+ years -- >when I'm trying to manage a system and/or troubleshoot a problem, >I *want* log files, as many as I can get and cross-referenced 17 different >ways. This isn't a security issue -- most system administrator headaches are >due to the "benign indifference of the universe", or maybe to Murphy's Law >-- but simply a question of having enough information to trace the >the perturbations caused to the system by any given stimulus. > >The more anonymity, and the more privacy cut-outs, the harder this is. With respect to Steve's vast experience on this subject, I must disagree. Managing and tracking systems and networks does require monitoring and logging of traffic. However, the information of interest is confined to the headers. There is no need to examine the body of user messages for these purposes. Even less would their be a need to "crack" some kind of bearer token. (Of course this implies that crypto should be applied as far up the stack as possible, ideally in the application. But that is another debate.) I hear you saying, "but what if the guy is trying to break into my system." I would argue, that if you are using strong cryptographic authentication (whether his identity can be mapped to a human being or not) then either 1) he will fail, in which case you don't care or 2) he will succeed, in which case he must have used some technique like stealing a key which cannot be detected by monitoring. I raise this point, because I see it as part of a current trend to resist stong security measures in preference to weak ones. The current industry facination with weak measures, like firewalls and intrusion detection systems has caused some people to resist the introduction of strong measures, such as cryptographic authentication and data protection. The most popular example of this is the foolish practice of putting an SSL server, with its vital server private key, outside the firewall in a DMZ. But I have also heard system administrators protest the introduction of cryptographic solutions because some current half measure will no longer work. There are even misguided individuals who have proposed putting master decryption keys at vulnerable locations like border routers, so that messages can be inspected in the fly. Like many people here, I live in the practical world and read dbs for serious amusement (see Darwin on Malthus). However in both worlds I spend a lot of time trying to distingush the sound from the foolish. Regards, Hal ==================================================================== Harold W. Lockhart Jr. PLATINUM technology Chief Technical Architect 8 New England Executive Park Email: Harold.Lockhart at platinum.com Burlington, MA 01803 USA Voice: (781)273-6406 Fax: (781)229-2969 ==================================================================== From schear at lvcm.com Wed Oct 28 08:38:08 1998 From: schear at lvcm.com (Steve Schear) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 00:38:08 +0800 Subject: UK police chase crooks on CCTV (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810211322.IAA03036@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: >>We need a law or court ruling pretty quickly in the US that sets the >>standard that a group of people have no more or less rights than an >>individual. This will required LEA's to provide probable cause prior to any >>actions against groups of people (such as this). > >Ain't gonna happen - are you kidding? If there is a ruling like that, >it'll be done in some way that restricts citizen rights rather than >expanding them, or expands police powers rather than restricting them. >It's already legal for cops to hang around street corners watching for >suspicious activities or suspicious people, and all video recognition >technology does is increase their effectiveness and speed at doing things >they already are allowed to do. > >Unfortunately, I'm being increasingly forced to take the David Brin >position of >"Cameras are cheap, get used to it, just make sure we have more cameras >pointing at the cops than they have pointing at us, and make sure >the cameras the government has are citizen-accessible as well." An alternative is a new religion, The First Cypherpunk Church, whose members are admonished to wear identiy hiding (oops, I mean modesty enhancing) garb, like arab women. Then we can all go around anonymously in public. Of course, you'll stick out like a sore thumb and may look like a fool unless enough parishoners join, but.... --Steve From Diederik.Smets at emd.be Wed Oct 28 08:57:31 1998 From: Diederik.Smets at emd.be (Diederik Smets) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 00:57:31 +0800 Subject: lotus notes id file Message-ID: <412566AB.00566188.00@mailhost.emd.be> IF the owner of the id also entered an internet password AND it is the same as the one for the id file, then you can use brute force (dictionairies) to try and crack it. Get the encrypted value in the properties>fields>HTTPPassword of the persons document in the PNAB and compare it to the results of the @password() function. Alternatively, do a search for old id files which might still be accessible with the 'default' password (if you know which one that is), but you won't be able to access servers that have the 'check password' option enabled. If you need to access a local DB that has 'enforce a consistant ACL across all replicas' enabled, just use another id and add that person's name with the necessary roles to the ACL via LotusScript. Diederik Hello I'm using lotus notes and I have a big problem. I have a id file with no password. How can I get a password for it or reset it. Is there some type of utility or something someone knows of?I have been told that I'm out of luck unless I have the original. John... From rah at shipwright.com Wed Oct 28 09:01:30 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 01:01:30 +0800 Subject: dbts: Cryptographic Dog Stocks, The Dirigible Biplane, and Sending the Wizards Back to Menlo Park In-Reply-To: Message-ID: As Cheech & Chong said once, "YYYYYYerrrrrrr Busteeeeed!". :-). It seems I forgot that nCipher is, after all, a manufacturing company. They needed capital to manufacture stuff with, and they went out and got great gory piles of venture capital to do it with, several rounds, in fact, in the millions of dollars. While nCipher seems to be the exception which proves my "venture capitalism is quaintly industrial" assertion, and that, Microsoft, C2NET, and most first-mover software / net firms, can do just fine without venture capital as long as they provide things their customers want, the best "venture capital" to be found in their customers' pocket, and all that, I do plead guilty yer honor, yet again, to working without a net. Oh, well. On the internet, the cost of error is bandwidth, same as it ever was. Sometimes "ready, fire, aim" means losing a toe or two... Of course, it's easy to see how, like machinery eventually became to land in agriculture, the most valuable component in manufacturing won't be the machines themselves, but the software and wetware required to run those machines, someday, but that's a rant of a different color, if not a whole 'nother generation. Cheers, Bob Hettinga At 10:05 AM -0500 on 10/28/98, Hal Lockhart wrote: > I've been waiting for somebody to mention that (according to > www.ncipher.com) one of the primary investors in Ncipher, which is the > company Bob touted in the rant that started this thread, is none other than > SDTI. > > They also list investments by Newbridge and no less than three V.C. > companies. Seems at odds with Bob's claim that they "used little, if any, > venture capital money". However, I have not information about the history > or extent of investment in this company, so I bow to Bob's insider > knowledge. (Bob, I thought you were going to stop posting insider knowledge > to this list. Or was it that you were going to stop NOT posting ...) > > As an aside about Ncipher, while I am sure they are smart guys and will do > well, isn't a hardware crypto engine pretty much a commodity product? How > can a company like this resist an onslaught from an IBM or an Intel if they > decided this niche was large enough to go after? ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From concerned at aol.com Wed Oct 28 09:22:11 1998 From: concerned at aol.com (concerned at aol.com) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 01:22:11 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199810281640.IAA15426@toad.com> 10/28/98 Y2K Solution! 8 Pine Circle Dr., Silicon Valley, Calif. USA OTC Company "TCFG" 21 st. Century Frontier Group has through several members of their administrative research department leaked vital information about their companies efforts. Everyone was tight lipped and interviews were refused, and through un-named sources we have learned that the technology and software solution are in the process of being patented! In over 1640 trials, using various data systems the use of the new technology and software solved the Y2K problem 100% of the time. This small publicly traded company "TCFG" which is just 3 years old is through various sources now negotiating with the "Big Boys"! "TCFG" the letters to look for....... From hrook at exchange.microsoft.com Wed Oct 28 09:41:22 1998 From: hrook at exchange.microsoft.com (Harvey Rook (Exchange)) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 01:41:22 +0800 Subject: Speed records, and brute force state of the art. Message-ID: <2FBF98FC7852CF11912A0000000000010D19AD2B@DINO> >From the New York Times... WASHINGTON-The Energy Department will take delivery on Wednesday of what the Government says is the world's fastest computer, capable of a peak performance of 3.88 trillion calculations, or teraflops, a second. Just to simplify things, let's assume that 1 flop == 1 decryption. I know that's not true, but it's very close, and it's certainly less than one order of magnitude off. So, with this assumption how long does it take to break various key sizes? 56 bits -- 2^56 / 3.88E12 = 5.2 hours 64 bits -- 2^64 / 3.88E12 = 55 days 80 bits -- 2^80 / 3.88E12 = 9873 years 128 bits -- 2^128 / 3.88E12 = 2.8E18 years. And now you know. Harv. From nobody at replay.com Wed Oct 28 10:08:22 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 02:08:22 +0800 Subject: MIB Subponeas (fwd) Message-ID: <199810281733.SAA00570@replay.com> 1. You have the option of telling them to leave your property at once (if you can pull this at work, e.g., if you're the boss). 2. You do not have to identify yourself when asked, unless you're driving a car in public. You do not have to accept a subpeona. Uncertified postal mail is datagrams and its surprising how many e.g., jury notices are dropped. I remember my dad sending me to tell the man who drove up to the house (to serve my dad, a lawyer) to get lost. Pretty cool thing for an 8 year old to do. If you have the presence of mind to remember these things, you can at least get advance notice, and send your blue dress to the cleaners. At 04:56 PM 10/27/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: >The only issue that took me by >surprise was two officers showing up at work unannounced. It took me till >the next day to burn off the heeby-jeebies from that. From smb at research.att.com Wed Oct 28 10:10:58 1998 From: smb at research.att.com (Steve Bellovin) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 02:10:58 +0800 Subject: log files (was: Re: dbts: Cryptographic Dog Stocks, The Dirigible Biplane, and Sending the Wizards Back to Menlo Park ) Message-ID: <199810281713.MAA29423@postal.research.att.com> In message <3.0.1.32.19981028093825.00a3f2d0 at pop.bos.platinum.com>, Hal Lockhar > > I hear you saying, "but what if the guy is trying to break into my system." > I would argue, that if you are using strong cryptographic authentication > (whether his identity can be mapped to a human being or not) then either 1) > he will fail, in which case you don't care or 2) he will succeed, in which > case he must have used some technique like stealing a key which cannot be > detected by monitoring. Why do you assume that the flaw that lets the bad guy in is cryptographic? I recently analyzed every CERT advisory ever issued. 85% of them described problems that crypto couldn't fix. Buffer overflow is the culprit du jour, but it's hardly the only one. (This year, the prize for second place -- admittedly a distant second -- went to crypto modules.) > > I raise this point, because I see it as part of a current trend to resist > stong security measures in preference to weak ones. The current industry > facination with weak measures, like firewalls and intrusion detection > systems has caused some people to resist the introduction of strong > measures, such as cryptographic authentication and data protection. The > most popular example of this is the foolish practice of putting an SSL > server, with its vital server private key, outside the firewall in a DMZ. That's only a flaw if you assume that there are other weak points on the Web server that a firewall can protect. If you lock down the host so that only port 80 is exposed (and maybe a cryptographically protected administrative port), what good does the firewall do? The weakest point is probably the CGI scripts, and those have to be exposed in any event. > > But I have also heard system administrators protest the introduction of > cryptographic solutions because some current half measure will no longer > work. There are even misguided individuals who have proposed putting > master decryption keys at vulnerable locations like border routers, so that > messages can be inspected in the fly. There are no panaceas, there is no single technology (and that emphatically includes crypto) that will solve this problem. Defense in depth is our best hope, which means firewalls plus crypto plus IDS plus better operating systems and programming languages. Most of all, it means engineering a solution -- making the right set of tradeoffs, even if unobvious. Let me give an analogy. On most electrical equipment, the ground pin is useless -- *unless* there has been another insulation or air gap failure within the device, a failure that would render the frame "hot". But because of the ground pin, such a failure will instead short the hot lead to ground, tripping the breaker. It thus takes two failures to electrocute someone. *But* -- toasters and other devices with exposed heating elements don't use this technique. Why not? Well, with an exposed electrode, the probability of direct contact with a live wire is much greater. And if you ground the frame of the toaster, there's now a direct, high-quality path to ground that in turn is in contact with the other hand of the poor fool who is poking at a piece of bread with a fork. In other words, what's a safety mechanism in your refrigerator is a danger in your toaster -- and sometimes, that can be true of crypto as well. For another analogy, think of insecurity as entropy. You can't destroy it, but you can move it around. Using crypto moves the problem from the (in)security of the links to the (in)security of the keys. If you can't protect your keys -- and that generally takes much more than crypto -- using cryptography hasn't bought you anything. From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Oct 28 10:17:46 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 02:17:46 +0800 Subject: MIB Subponeas (fwd) Message-ID: <199810281749.LAA14195@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 18:33:59 +0100 > From: Anonymous > Subject: Re: MIB Subponeas (fwd) [various pieces of good advice in dealing with LEA's deleted] It wasn't so much that they were IRS or whatever, it was they showed up in the middle of my crit-sit patch regression and completely distracted my attention from working on the patch for the customer. It was something *else* to deal with in the priority 1 bin. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody at replay.com Wed Oct 28 10:19:11 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 02:19:11 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199810281735.SAA00677@replay.com> At 02:35 PM 10/27/98 -0800, Michael Motyka wrote: >> Most of nature is a very high quality vacuum, actually. >> >Yup, I did my 100hrs of Physics, Chemistry and Math too. I like the way >the 'vacuum' behaves near very hi-Z nuclei. Fine, lets get into vacuum energy, but not waste cpunk time. >More interesting, though, is this: why would a block cipher use key bits >rather than an LFSR to do input or output whitening? Is it strictly a >performance issue? Is it proven that doing this doesn't leak key bits in >some way? Shift registers are cracked. Good ciphers haven't been. (Love tautologies.) Traditional block ciphers are expensive bleach, take note. Unnecessary. From nobody at replay.com Wed Oct 28 10:19:33 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 02:19:33 +0800 Subject: 1999 U$ budget for facial recognition Message-ID: <199810281733.SAA00537@replay.com> The committee recommends an increase of $5.0 million for the facial recognition technology program. http://www.dp.hq.af.mil/DP/dprc/SENREPT.HTM Report to Accompany S. 2060 The Department of Defense Authorization Bill for Fiscal Year 1999 (large document) From nobody at replay.com Wed Oct 28 10:20:20 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 02:20:20 +0800 Subject: personal tracking Message-ID: <199810281738.SAA00830@replay.com> http://fotlan5.fotlan.army.mil/STRATEGIC/appa.html TITLE: Tracking and Reporting System (TRS) OBJECTIVE: To conceive, design, implement, and develop a small (vest-pocket-size) satellite transceiver that can be overtly (and possibly covertly) affixed to personnel, vehicles, or goods in transit for the purpose of tracking and position reporting of the host. From nobody at replay.com Wed Oct 28 10:22:42 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 02:22:42 +0800 Subject: airline id Message-ID: <199810281736.SAA00715@replay.com> At 12:43 PM 10/27/98 -0800, Joel O'Connor wrote: >you flew to. Even with trains, all's it will take is one bomb and you >better believe security will be pumped up as high as it is with >airlines. Naaah, you pull rail-spikes to get trains, no big ba-da-boom required. And it does happen. From nobody at replay.com Wed Oct 28 10:25:14 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 02:25:14 +0800 Subject: cypherpunk fashion accessories Message-ID: <199810281733.SAA00557@replay.com> A piece of luggage in the form of an attache case is equipped with destruct means for destroying the contents therein in response to an intentionally given signal. The interior of the case comprises a compartment in the form of a metallic box with a cover, which box when closed serves as a combustion chamber to incinerate the contents therein when so desired. Fuel and electric igniter means are placed within the box and ignition current is supplied by a power pack housed in the attache case. A heat insulation barrier surrounds the box and prevents transfer of combustion heat to the walls of the attache case. The circuit interconnecting the electric power pack and the igniter means includes a number of normally open switches arranged in series; all of which must be closed to initiate and start the destruct cycle. One switch is closed in response to closure of the attache case, and others may be deliberately closed by key means or the like. The final switch is closed by a pushbutton in the vicinity of the attache case handle, whereby the carrier of the case may set off the destruct cycle by manipulating the pushbutton with a finger of the hand around the handle. http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn10=US03643609 From research at hampton.net Thu Oct 29 02:28:59 1998 From: research at hampton.net (research at hampton.net) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 02:28:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <989.283923.759256 research@hampton.net> 10/29/98 Y2K Solution! 8 Pine Circle Dr., Silicon Valley, Calif. OTC Company "TCFG" 21 st. Century Frontier Group has through several members of their administrative research department leaked vital information about their companies efforts. Everyone was tight lipped and interviews were refused, and through un-named sources we have learned that the technology and software solution are in the process of being patented! In over 1640 trials, using various data systems the use of the new technology and software solved the Y2K problem 100% of the time. This small publicly traded company "TCFG" which is just 3 years old is through various sources now negotiating with the "Big Boys"! "TCFG" the letters to look for! From nobody at replay.com Wed Oct 28 10:43:57 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 02:43:57 +0800 Subject: one lump or two Message-ID: <199810281803.TAA03396@replay.com> >(e.g. # Uses/Side Effects/Precuations/Interactions/etc.) > >I'd like info on Zoloft, Zestril, Lithium, & Deprecote (?sp) - orange-ish >liquid capsules - ... and Tegretol and Respiradahl (?sp) Depekote and Tegretol are anti-seizure drugs now being used for certain kinds of bipolar conditions. Zoloft is like prozac but has also a mild stimulating effect. Lithium is a classic anti-bipolar drug. Li, Depekote, probably Tegretol you have to watch blood levels even after stabilization. They probably think he's manic and or depressed, if he's been coherent and dumbed-himself-down enough to avoid a psychotic or schizoform diagnosis. Shrinks don't like rants, especially ones they don't understand. From frissell at panix.com Wed Oct 28 11:02:37 1998 From: frissell at panix.com (Duncan Frissell) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 03:02:37 +0800 Subject: UK police chase crooks on CCTV (fwd) In-Reply-To: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F850A@MSX11002> Message-ID: <4.0.2.19981028120127.03c24310@panix.com> So when are they going to arrest Gorby and Fidel? They killed more people. DCF At 04:57 AM 10/22/98 -0500, Brown, R Ken wrote: >> William H. Geiger III[SMTP:whgiii at invweb.net] wrote (among other >> stuff): >> >> >> What we need is a mechanism to punish the politicians >> who go down the Big Brother path *and* the companies >> who are making big profits helping them. >> IMHO the UK, and the rest of Europe, is a lost cause, >> it's sheeple are too brainwashed > >The best bit of news of the last few days is Pinochet's arrest. It >lifted my heart. Almost made up for the all >the bad stuff the UK government has been coming out with. >(Also it brought Thatcher out of the woodwork. Like a large segment of >the British Tory party she really is/was an authoritarian, >paying lip-service to the Free Market for political reasons. You can >tell them by the company they keep.) > From tcmay at got.net Wed Oct 28 11:03:10 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 03:03:10 +0800 Subject: MIB Subponeas In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19981026144314.038c6020@rboc.net> Message-ID: At 3:57 AM -0800 10/28/98, Jon 'tex' Boone wrote: >Tim May writes: >> >> * What about lawyer expenses? I know the line about "If you cannot >>afford one, >> one will be appointed for you," but I've never understood what test of >> "afford" is being used. If called before a grand jury, will they pay for a >> lawyer? (E.g., if I decide I can't "afford" to pay some shyster to >>interpret >> their legalese into ordinary English.) (I assume there is some nonsense >> about indigence, but can they force someone to prove he has no money? >>What >> if he money, but he needs that $5000 for school tuition more than he needs >> to give it to Johnny Cockroach for a day's worth of shystering?) > > Tim, > > It is my understanding, from my brother in law (who is a practicing >attorney > in Pennsylvania) and from my sister's participation in a case in Texas >that > one does not have the right to have legal counsel present at a Grand Jury > session. Yes, yes, yes, I know this. (Had I not known it before, I would have after the Monicagate matter.) However, one is still at risk in grand jury matters, and attorneys are usually used to advise. Also, one can leave the grand jury room to consult with an attorney. Too bad this is so, but nearly everyone who receives a subpoena hires an attorney to advise on risks, consequences, etc. Anyone who gets sucked into the Great Cypherpunks Conspiracy Trial probably ought to have competent legal counsel. (I received a subpoena from one of my neighbors, and it was written in legalese that I had no way of understanding without a lawyer. And I always thought "Deuces take 'em" was a version of poker.) --Tim May Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From nobody at replay.com Wed Oct 28 11:42:59 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 03:42:59 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199810281904.UAA08814@replay.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Being paid to be paranoid, I prefer to use averages instead of absolutes. So your numbers would then be: 56 bits -- ( 2^56 / 3.88E12 )*0.5 = 2.6 hours 64 bits -- ( 2^64 / 3.88E12)*0.5 = 27.5 days 80 bits -- ( 2^80 / 3.88E12)*0.5 = 36.5 years 128 bits -- ( 2^128 / 3.88E12)*0.5 = 1.4E18 years. So a brute force on a 56 bit key would take, on average, 2.6 hours-- using your computational power assumption below-- with half of all keys brute forced being found before that time and half being found after that time and most being found around 2.6 hours. This is assuming a fairly random distribution of keys within a large set of keys to be attacked. You can meter your level of safety by changing the minimum average percentage of keys found (50%, 25%, 75%) to your taste (or management's taste) or by increasing the key size. me. - -----Original Message----- From: Harvey Rook (Exchange) [SMTP:hrook at exchange.microsoft.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 1998 11:01 AM To: cypherpunks at cyberpass.net Subject: Speed records, and brute force state of the art. - From the New York Times... WASHINGTON-The Energy Department will take delivery on Wednesday of what the Government says is the world's fastest computer, capable of a peak performance of 3.88 trillion calculations, or teraflops, a second. Just to simplify things, let's assume that 1 flop == 1 decryption. I know that's not true, but it's very close, and it's certainly less than one order of magnitude off. So, with this assumption how long does it take to break various key sizes? 56 bits -- 2^56 / 3.88E12 = 5.2 hours 64 bits -- 2^64 / 3.88E12 = 55 days 80 bits -- 2^80 / 3.88E12 = 9873 years 128 bits -- 2^128 / 3.88E12 = 2.8E18 years. And now you know. Harv. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.0 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBNjcVv3UkEFXvH2ZAEQJRJQCeOPXRZpMwlFKHjUWktgBMRSL626sAnR/m TJAfMTXEdf5pYW+rLiACRlWD =WYHJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From petro at playboy.com Wed Oct 28 11:47:10 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 03:47:10 +0800 Subject: Soccer Moms? In-Reply-To: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F84C8@MSX11002> Message-ID: At 8:28 AM -0500 10/13/98, Brown, R Ken wrote: >In the middle of an interesting article about digital cash, forwarded >here by Bob Hettinga, there was the line: > >> After all, the kind of soccer moms who elected Bill Clinton > >"Divided by a common language" as I am I genuinly don't know what that >means. And I can't even guess from context. I'd have expected a dig at >liberals or feminists or welfare recipients at that point; and I can't >work out what soccer has to do with it. > >Do mothers play soccer much in the USA? > >Football (as the 95% of the world's population that aren't either >English-speaking North Americans or else Rugby fans call the Beautiful >Game) is associated in my mind with young men, specifically working >class men. It's connotations are entirely macho, even violent. When a >big match is on men gather in pubs and bars and shout at TVs whilst >knocking back the lager. You avoid the centre of town if you don't want >to risk getting involved in a fight. People get *killed* at football >matches. That's pretty much true in every big city inthe world outside >North America (and Japan where the fans are polite). > >This honestly isn't a troll - I am in fact bewildered by the phrase. I am currently in the process of catching up on C-punks, did this get answered to your satisfaction? -- "To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather na�ve, and certainly unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust" http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro at playboy.com From jya at pipeline.com Wed Oct 28 12:05:55 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 04:05:55 +0800 Subject: MIB Subpoenas In-Reply-To: Message-ID: [Misspelled subject corrected - my initial fault, SSM.] Tim points out the risks of Grand Jury appearance and need for legal counsel outside the hearing. We'll add that it's fairly common to use Grand Jury testimony to ensnare a target - and not only Bill - who thinks there's not much to worry about based on the friendly strokes beforehand by velvet-gloved agents. It's the false testimony, perjury, that sinks the hook. Especially when hit with unexpected questions about matters for which no preparation has been made, those usually completely unlike what the friendly agents suggested was the main reason for politely asking for cooperation (not telling what they already knew the target knows and will try to hide). Presumably an attorney would prepare for this, but not all, especially if time is limited and the target does not think there's any need to fully brief counsel (even dare to fancy lawyers aint so smart). A prime suspect in the African Embassy bombings, US citizen Wadi el Hage, was induced to come up to NYC from Texas in this fashion, testified before the GJ and was immediately arrested for giving false testimony to questions ranging over several years of his experiences and prior statements to the FBI. The Q&A can be seen at: http://jya.com/usa-v-hage+3.htm Note that while all the bombers are charged with murder, el Hage is multiply-charged with perjury. Note also that all the suspects used a variety of aliases, so the Feds allege, just like CJ is mani-nymed in Gilmore's subpoena. Also, in this case at least two of the four suspects have recently been isolated from outside contact, on the pretext that they may communicate orders to "terrorists," but, more probably because they are cooperating with prosecutors who do not want the lovely relationship to be interrupted by outsiders. Or the Feds want to send a signal that that is the case to spook those being sought, and the two not cooperating. As Jim Choate noted, the implied threat of hellish treatment if you don't cooperate produces heebie-jeebies and overhwhelming desire to get your life back to normal everyday, familiar panic. And if you're in jail nursed by MIB and strangers in stripes, such a threat erodes what's left of your iron discipline to never, ever squeal on comrades. NY Times front-paged yesterday the controversy over prosecutors offering leniency for testifying against cohorts. During the summer an appeals panel declared such practice be bribery prohibited under a 50-year-old law and ruled that it is illegal. Within hours a higher court overruled the panel, and the issue is expected to go to the Supremes. Even so, the panel made some indelible remarks about prosecutors not being above the law: In their densely worded opinion, the panel examined precedents as far back as the Magna Carta, which imposed limits on the exercise of sovereign power. The law prohibiting "whoever" from offering a witness anything of value in exchange for testimony should apply, the judges said, to prosecutors as well as to everyone else. "Decency, security and liberty alike," the panel said, "demand that Government officials shall be subject to the same rules of conduct that are commands to the citizen." As expected, prosecutors were furious at the panel's decision, as were many judges, claiming that the practice was hundreds of years old and convictions could not be obtained without it. One judge said the decision was "amazingly unsound, not to mention nonsensical." The Times notes that the Miranda decision got the same reception, and was fought fiercely by the status quo investors in the justice system. It's a good article for preparing to meet the good and bad MIB trolling for all too trusting, easily spooked rubes, a/k/a terrorists, a/k/a assassins. In answer to a query about the 3rd subpoena recipient: it's not to a CDR or anon remailer operator. From rah at shipwright.com Wed Oct 28 12:31:40 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 04:31:40 +0800 Subject: IP: Microsoft Enters Smart Card Market Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Delivered-To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com X-Sender: believer at telepath.com Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:31:51 -0600 To: believer at telepath.com From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Microsoft Enters Smart Card Market Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Precedence: list Reply-To: believer at telepath.com Source: New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/yr/mo/biztech/articles/28card.html October 28, 1998 Microsoft Enters Smart Card Market By BLOOMBERG NEWS PARIS -- The Microsoft Corporation introduced a tiny computer-operating system for smart cards Tuesday as well as support for the system from 20 hardware makers. Smart cards contain microchips that store personal or financial data, allowing access while securing the information from unauthorized use. They are already used widely in Europe in digital mobile phones, pre-paid telephone cards and bank cards. Microsoft is betting that smart cards will take off as the growing use of hand-held computer devices and electronic commerce creates demand for more secure ways of accessing computer networks. The company, which is based in Redmond, Wash., is competing against Sun Microsystems Inc. in the smart-card market, pitting its Windows system against Sun's Java programming language. "We brought back our work on smart cards a year-and-a-half ago when we saw increasing demand for authentication of a user's identity to access a network and an explosion in demand for on-line electronic commerce," said Craig Mundie, senior vice president for consumer platforms at Microsoft. He presented the new product at the Cartes 98 Smart Card conference in Paris. He said test versions of the product would be ready in the first quarter of next year and the final product by mid-year. The Windows operating system for smart cards will have memory capacity of 4.5 kilobytes, compared with 300 kilobytes for Windows CE, which is used in hand-held computers. Windows cards will cost issuers about $3 each, compared with $20 for Java-based cards. Sun officials could not immediately be reached for comment. The worldwide market for chip cards will jump nearly fivefold, to $6.8 billion, in 2002, from $1.4 billion in 1997, according to Dataquest Inc., a unit of Gartner Group Inc. ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Wed Oct 28 12:41:45 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 04:41:45 +0800 Subject: IP: CHAOSTAN Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Delivered-To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 00:26:49 -0800 To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com From: "A.C." Subject: IP: CHAOSTAN: EARLY WARNING REPORT. Sender: owner-ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Precedence: list Reply-To: "A.C." Richard was a reporter for the US Army, in Germany, until recently. I hope I recall the correct branch of the military, Richard, that you served as a reporter with. Richard ran into a whole lot of trouble when he began to expose some rather "controversial" things he saw, that involved US troops in the former Yugoslavia. See also the article below Richard's brief missive, written by Richard Maybury, editor of EARLY WARNING report newsletter. It is probably one of the best written essays on the subject of our now universal dillema. Maybury's handle on history makes it all the more credible, especially as he shows the parallels with the present. AC --------------------------------------------------- >Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 22:00:38 -0800 >From: Richard=20 >To: Angie Carlson >Subject: Richard Holbrooke > >Angie, >Did you see Richard Holbrooke on the PBS Newshour With Jim Lehrer on >Tues. Oct. 27? He talked about sending more troops to Macedonia because >of the Kosovo situation and that "It's been a plan for years." But he >also says they have "an emergency evacuation plan for every person." >I was surprised Judy Woodruff mentioned the danger of taking U.S. troops > >hostage. This had previously been something of a taboo subject in U.S. >media. >This "plan for some years" of sending more U.N./NATO troops to Macedonia > >may be what I came up against in January of 1994. The planners didn't >want Americans to learn about the threat to U.S. troops in this region >of the world. >Best wishes, >Rick Haverinen >----------------------------------------------------------------- Richard Maybury's U.S. and World EARLY WARNING REPORT Free Articles http://www.stockscape.com/newsletters/maybury/free1.htm NEWSLETTER FREE ARTICLES SUBSCRIBE CONTACT Chaostan, the Full Story Dear Reader, Having invented the Chaostan model, I'm embarrassed to admit I have never written a complete explanation of it. Investors found it so valuable that Henry-Madison Research and EWR began to grow rapidly and I have been unable to find time to give you the full story until now. Chaostan is pronounced Chaos-tan, with the emphasis on Chaos. In Central Asia, the suffix "stan" means "the land of." Uzbekistan, for instance, is the land of the Uzbeks. I coined the term Chaostan to mean the land of the Great Chaos. It comprises the area from the Arctic Ocean to the Indian Ocean and Poland to the Pacific Ocean, plus North Africa. This is roughly a third of the earth's land surface. To understand Chaostan, we must first understand these two lines; they are the most important you will ever see. They represent the "standard of living" or, if you prefer, "quality of life" of the typical individual in western civilization. This can be measured however you wish to measure it -- quantity of food, number of bathtubs, warmth of clothing, number of telephones, speed of transportation, amount of entertainment or medical care, and so forth. Line 1 is the line we have all been taught. We leave school thinking civilization advanced slowly but steadily over thousands of years until we reached our present high level. This line is false. Line 2 is the real line. Nearly all progress happened recently and suddenly. The typical individual in 1500 AD lived little better than in 1500 BC. He had little food, little clothing or shelter, and so much disease, filth and ignorance he was lucky to survive till age 30; most died in childhood. Until recently, poverty was so awful that even royalty lived in conditions we would regard as horrifying. What happened to cause this sudden, dramatic takeoff? What year did the sharp escalation begin? 1776. You can verify this yourself and I urge you to do so. Walk around your home and make a list of everything you have that was developed after 1776. Electricity, indoor plumbing, plastic, aluminum, central heating, air conditioning, plywood, refrigerators, nylon, jogging shoes, inner spring mattresses, rayon, facial tissue, stainless steel, corn flakes, underwear, radio... Then make another list of everything developed before 1776. Do the same in a hospital and dentist's office. Compare the lists and ask yourself what your life would have been like if you had lived before 1776. For thousands of years up until the American Revolution, our ancestors lived just barely above the base line of human existence. Destitution had been the normal condition since Adam and Eve. The past two centuries -- a mere eyeblink in the vast span of history -- have been a spectacular exception. I do not exaggerate when I say that at least once a week I give thanks that I was born when and where I was -- in America after 1776. Why did the American Revolution have this wonderful effect? The answer is the story of Chaostan. It begins, as almost everything in today's political world begins, in ancient Rome. After Roman civilization in Europe fell apart around 500 AD, Europe was taken over by hundreds of independent cutthroats called feudal lords. Each set up his own little kingdom of a square mile or so, with a castle at the center. The people on this tiny estate were the lord's property--his serfs--to be taxed, regulated and killed as he saw fit. This was the Dark Ages, a time of starvation, endless war, ignorance and bottomless misery. The Roman legal system had died along with the Empire, so Europe had no law. Two people embroiled in a dispute had to work it out on their own. The feudal lord seldom paid much attention; he didn't care as long as the taxes kept rolling in. When a dispute occurred, there was often bloodshed. To avoid this, participants in disputes increasingly called on neutral third parties to hear both sides of their stories and make decisions. Usually, the most trusted person in a community was a clergyman and some clergymen made careers of hearing disputes and making judgments. They became judges. Being clergymen, these judges' decisions in each case were based on religious principles such as "Thou shalt not steal," and "Thou shalt not kill." Decisions were preserved in writing as precedents for later decisions. This collection of precedents became a body of "case law" (law derived from actual cases). One problem. Often people were from different religions. Which principles should a judge apply? Judges hit on the idea of using the principles all religions hold in= common. There are two: (1) Do all you have agreed to do. This became the basis of contract law. (2) Do not encroach on other persons or their property. This became the basis of tort law and some criminal law. These two laws taught by all religions were held to be common to all persons and they became the foundation of the body of precedents called Common Law. (All this is fully explained in my Uncle Eric book WHATEVER HAPPENED TO JUSTICE?) Another problem. Governments hated the two fundamental laws. They wanted the privilege of breaking agreements, stealing, killing and doing whatever else they= pleased. Right from the beginning, there was conflict between governments and Common Law judges, and these judges were under extreme pressure to make exceptions for public officials. This is the meaning of the so-called divine right of kings. Governments declared that, although they were as human as everyone else, God had given them the special right to violate the two fundamental laws. The modern version of the divine right of kings is what I call the divine right of the majority. In democracies it is held that the government can do anything it pleases if the majority or their representatives vote for it. Thanks to the divine right of kings, the heavy taxes, regulations and wars kept the people in crushing poverty. In England, a huge underground economy sprang up to escape the taxes and regulations. Finally, after 1492, shipbuilding advanced enough for people to cross the ocean to America to escape their governments, and thousands did. England's underground economy was transplanted to America, where it flourished. Virtually every adult was engaged in smuggling or tax evasion of one sort or another. The early Americans hated the government's political law, but in regard to Common Law, were probably some of the most law abiding people ever to walk the earth. They were not perfect, but they had, after all, risked their lives crossing the ocean to live under the principles of this law. These principles came not from a legislature of crooked politicians, but from their religions. By 1765, enjoying very little taxation or regulation, Americans had become the wealthiest population on earth. Here it is important to note that the American Revolution was a revolution. These were Englishmen fighting their own government. They did not split from England until July 4, 1776, which was fifteen months after the war started. Government officials in England decided to tap into the colonists' wealth. They sent tax collectors. The tax collectors were tarred and feathered. They sent troops to protect the tax collectors. At Lexington and Concord in 1775, the troops arrived to confiscate the American colonists' guns, and the colonists decided to fight. Then, in 1776, the colonists overthrew their government and, in their Declaration of Independence said, "All men are created equal." No special privileges--everyone obeys the two fundamental laws. After the 1776 revolution, the American founders set up a new government with a Constitution and Bill of Rights based on the two fundamental laws. [The Common Law orgins of the American system are traced in the Pultizer Prize winning book THE IDEOLOGICAL ORIGINS OF THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION by Bernard Bailyn, Harvard University Press, 1967.] The size and power of this government was severely limited and its ability to steal ("tax") was reduced almost to zero. Until the 20th century, the tiny US government was supported only by import taxes and taxes on liquor and tobacco; there was no income tax. America became a haven for flight capital as people all over the world began investing their money here. With this mountain of capital to work with, new businesses sprang up like mushrooms, and inventors such as Robert Fulton and Eli Whitney were able to acquire funds to develop a vast array of new machines to make life better. This is where we get the term "American ingenuity." When he died in 1931, Thomas Edison had more than a thousand patents. This mountain of capital also enabled industrialists to produce and sell these new items at prices everyone could afford, while paying the world's highest wages. America still had a lot of flaws, the worst being slavery and the genocide of the Native American Indians, but it was the freest, most prosperous land ever known. The Old World remained so wretchedly poor that archaeological evidence from American slave dwellings shows Europe's heavily taxed and regulated middle class did not live as well as America's slaves. The rest of the world saw America's great wealth and liberty and wanted it for themselves. In the 1800s, millions came here, and millions more stayed at home and fought to limit their governments. Now we come to three questions that are crucial for understanding Chaostan: (1) Why was the Battle of Lexington called the Shot Heard Round The World, not the Shot Heard Round America? (2) When the French gave us the Statue of Liberty, why did they name it Liberty Enlightening the World, not Liberty Enlightening America? (3) Why does the statue face outward toward Europe, not inward toward America? The principles of the 1776 revolution began to spread around the world, and the nations where they became established came to be known as the Free World. These nations are also the richest. Liberty is the source of prosperity. This, incidentally, is the meaning of the Henry-Madison Company's logo, a Liberty Bell with an economic chart showing rapid advancement. (The company is named after Patrick Henry and James Madison.) America is the only country in history that has been, not so much a place, as an idea. Unfortunately, the mid-1800s brought catastrophe. The economic philosophy that had destroyed the Roman Empire was revived. This was socialism. Bread and circuses. The all-powerful state. This old Roman system legitimatized covetousness and claimed "redistribution of wealth" is not stealing if it is done with good intentions. It began to spread like a prairie fire and quickly became so popular that it overwhelmed the philosophy of America's Founders and buried the principles of Common Law. This is why today few know anything about the original American philosophy or the two laws which gave it birth. The spread of liberty was halted. This map shows the lands where it had become established before its progress was reversed. As we would expect, liberty had sunk its deepest roots in regions with the strongest British Common Law heritage -- America, Canada, Britain, Australia and New Zealand.= In a few areas, liberty was introduced forcibly, as when Douglas MacArthur imposed it on Japan after the second world war. The jury is still out as to whether the Japanese will retain it or revert to their old statist ways. India was a British colony and liberty did take root there, but socialism was too popular for it to grow. India remains poor, with a per capita gross national product (GNP) of only $1,300 per year. (In the US it is $24,700.) For a while in the early 1800s, Latin America appeared to be on the verge of adopting liberty. Instead, these countries got sidetracked and went for democracy -- majority rule -- and the majority liked socialism. The richest Latin country is Mexico with a per capita GDP of only $8,200. In Africa, liberty never had a chance. Nearly all the African revolutions were 100% socialist, and today Africa is the poorest place on earth. Zaire's per capita GNP is $500, which is not unusual in Africa. In Europe, liberty had become well established as far east as Vienna, and to a lesser extent in the east European nations of Czechoslovakia, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia. Some knowledge of it reached Moscow under Kerensky in 1917, but the movement was quickly snuffed out by socialists. Today, East Europe, Russia and Asia remain almost entirely ignorant of the system of liberty. They are mired in unworkable statist systems and hundreds of millions of people live only slightly above the base line. In other words, Chaostan -- the land of the Great Chaos -- is the main area that never developed legal systems based on the two fundamental laws. (Or if they did, they allowed government officials the special privilege of violating these laws.) This schematic is derived from a map in the 10/95 EWR. It shows that the Balkan peninsula has long been one of the bloodiest parts of Chaostan because this is where three major religious cultures collide. Since the beginning of history, this area has been inhabited by hundreds of nations, tribes and ethnic groups that have hated and fought each other incessantly. Russia alone contains some 250 of these groups and they know nothing of the legal principles that make an advanced, peaceful civilization possible. Worse, there is no one to teach them, for the West has forgotten these principles, too. The importance of all this was hidden by the Cold War. From 1945 to 1990, the US and Soviet governments divided the world into two "spheres of influence," and Russia sat on its sphere like a lid on a pressure cooker. Peace in Chaostan was artificial; the hundreds of fractious groups under the Kremlin's thumb had not been civilized--they had only been suppressed. Now that the lid is off the pressure cooker, the explosion has begun. The area is returning to its original condition of poverty and war. Saddam Hussein was the first to realize the Kremlin's weakness was an opportunity to settle old scores. Since the fall of the Soviet Empire, no less than 17 wars have broken out in Chaostan. Travel around the world and study the economies of the countries you visit. You will see a pattern. The more socialistic a country is, the poorer it is. The former USSR is the textbook example. It was poor when the Soviet Empire was at its peak and it remains poor today. A degree of advancement can be achieved through force, by telling people to work or die, but slaves do only the minimum necessary to escape punishment and have little interest in progress. The mighty USSR was a Third World nation with missiles. After the USSR broke up, the Russians were deceived. They were taught democracy. When the Berlin Wall fell in 1989, they were led to believe that if they got majority rule like America, they would get rich like America. It did not work because it cannot work. In all the thousands of years of human history, the only thing that has been found to work is liberty -- the two fundamental laws. When these laws are widely obeyed by everyone, including government officials, life gets better. When they are disobeyed, life gets worse; it is automatic. We don't know why our species is made this way, we only know we are. These principles cannot be established by a government, for governments claim the special right to violate them, and hypocrites are laughed at. The principles must exist in the hearts and minds of the people, which means they must be anchored in the peoples' philosophical beliefs. Unfortunately, even in America these principles have been almost totally erased, so there is no one to teach the principles to the inhabitants of Chaostan. These people have learned only the simplistic notion of democracy -- majority rule. Wait a minute, you say, if the principles are so important, and if America has forgotten them, how does America continue? Momentum. This great land and all the rest of the Free World still have the principles embedded in their legal systems, but few know or care about this. When the momentum runs out, we will head down the same road as the former USSR. This is why I write the Uncle Eric series of books: to help reverse this decline. Look again at Line 2. Perhaps the twenty most important words you will ever read are these: When the two laws are not widely obeyed by everyone, including the government, a civilization returns to the base line. This was demonstrated over and over again in Africa. Colonialism was bad enough, but after Africans threw off their European rulers, they jumped from the colonial frying pan to the socialist fire. The result was a descent into poverty and war reminiscent of the Dark Ages. This descent is what is happening now in Chaostan, and what will happen to us if we do not revive the two fundamental laws. At bottom, there are only three possible political conditions -- liberty, tyranny or chaos. All political systems are variations of these. For the people of Chaostan, liberty is not an option. They are condemned to either tyranny or chaos, for they have never known anything else and there is no one to teach them. Until 1989, the former USSR had tyranny. Since then they have had chaos, and now I believe they are ready for a return to tyranny. But not all the hundreds of groups originally conquered by the Kremlin will submit. We can only guess at what will happen, but it will not be pretty. SUMMARY War, tyranny and poverty have been the normal conditions of mankind throughout history. My personal estimate is that 99% of everything good that ever happened to our species happened in one fell swoop, in the brief two centuries since 1776. This was due to the discovery and application of the two fundamental Common Law principles that make liberty and prosperity possible. After 1776, these principles began to spread around the world. Unfortunately, by 1900, this movement had been choked off by the revival of socialism. Large parts of the earth never got the principles, and the largest, which I call Chaostan, is now reverting to its original condition of war, tyranny and poverty. The principles of liberty are being rediscovered and if we all do our best to spread the word, I believe we have a good chance to rescue the Free World. But Chaostan is too far gone. The area is so huge, it will continue causing major changes in the world economy and investment markets. This will mean big losses for those who do not understand, and big profits for those who do. I will keep you informed. Created by Stockscape Stockscape Technologies Ltd., All Rights Reserved **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From tcmay at got.net Wed Oct 28 12:47:23 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 04:47:23 +0800 Subject: UK police chase crooks on CCTV (fwd) In-Reply-To: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F850A@MSX11002> Message-ID: At 10:31 AM -0800 10/28/98, Duncan Frissell wrote: >So when are they going to arrest Gorby and Fidel? They killed more people. > Besides, most of the folks Pinochet disposed of were lefties and other enemies of liberty. --Tim May Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From tcmay at got.net Wed Oct 28 13:01:52 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 05:01:52 +0800 Subject: MIB Subpoenas In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 11:28 AM -0800 10/28/98, John Young wrote: >Note also that all the suspects used a variety of aliases, so the >Feds allege, just like CJ is mani-nymed in Gilmore's subpoena. And the requests for "help" (Jeff Gordon to the Cypherpunks list), help with finding out who Toto communicated with, help with what his messages meant...well, it looks to me like a conspiracy case is being made. (The nexus in Washington, near Bell, and the nexus with AP, is indicative.) The first thing I did when I heard about the latest case, that of Toto, was to purge any private mail messages between myself and Toto or any of his alleged nyms. (My backups may have old messages, but I've been trying to find them all and destroy or recopy them sans the Toto messages.) I advise any of you with links to the idea of anonymous murders and AP to do the same. Soon. --Tim May Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From Harold.Lockhart at platinum.com Wed Oct 28 13:18:58 1998 From: Harold.Lockhart at platinum.com (Hal Lockhart) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 05:18:58 +0800 Subject: log files (was: Re: dbts: Cryptographic Dog Stocks, The Dirigible Biplane, and Sending the Wizards Back to Menlo Park ) In-Reply-To: <199810281713.MAA29423@postal.research.att.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19981028153554.00a4cc3c@pop.bos.platinum.com> Steve, I think in general we are in violent agreement, as are most real world practitioners I have spoken to. I won't even argue about whether your original comment constituted "resisting a strong measure in favor of a weak measure". Let's just say that your comment brought to mind certain unnamed persons who have done this. However, I believe you missed my points in several other areas, so I will try to clarify what I was saying. Out of courtesy to the numerous lists we are cross posting to, after your next response, if any, I suggest we take this off list. At 12:13 PM 10/28/98 -0500, Steve Bellovin wrote: >In message <3.0.1.32.19981028093825.00a3f2d0 at pop.bos.platinum.com>, Hal Lockhar >> >> I hear you saying, "but what if the guy is trying to break into my system." >> I would argue, that if you are using strong cryptographic authentication >> (whether his identity can be mapped to a human being or not) then either 1) >> he will fail, in which case you don't care or 2) he will succeed, in which >> case he must have used some technique like stealing a key which cannot be >> detected by monitoring. > >Why do you assume that the flaw that lets the bad guy in is cryptographic? >I recently analyzed every CERT advisory ever issued. 85% of them >described problems that crypto couldn't fix. Buffer overflow is the >culprit du jour, but it's hardly the only one. (This year, the prize >for second place -- admittedly a distant second -- went to crypto modules.) I never said that the flaw was cryptographic. The idea I was trying to express was that are two cases: 1) (Today) Let in unauthenticated or weakly authenticated users. There is a (relatively) high probability that they are attackers who will try to exploit some weakness like a buffer overflow. In this case it is useful to observe their application level traffic in order to detect this or learn of the existence of the new crack they are using. 2) (Future) Allow only strongly authenticated users. Either a) they are legitimate users whose identity is known and will presumably not try to hack the system, or b) they are attackers who have done something like steal the key of a legitimate user. In the later case, I admit you might want to see what they are typing, but it will not give you any information about the underlying problem -- their ability to obtain unauthorized keys. >> I raise this point, because I see it as part of a current trend to resist >> stong security measures in preference to weak ones. The current industry >> facination with weak measures, like firewalls and intrusion detection >> systems has caused some people to resist the introduction of strong >> measures, such as cryptographic authentication and data protection. The >> most popular example of this is the foolish practice of putting an SSL >> server, with its vital server private key, outside the firewall in a DMZ. > >That's only a flaw if you assume that there are other weak points on >the Web server that a firewall can protect. If you lock down the host >so that only port 80 is exposed (and maybe a cryptographically protected >administrative port), what good does the firewall do? The weakest point >is probably the CGI scripts, and those have to be exposed in any event. I agree with that. It is amazing to me how many people enable crypto like a talisman without locking down the rest of the system. However, my point was that as I understand the theory behind a DMZ, you put systems there that you think might get overrun. You do not put the mainframe that runs payroll in the DMZ. Yet, I assert, the server private key, which represents the identity of the organization ought to fall in under the same classification and receive the same protection. (Its actually worse than I indicated, since if you want your server to restart without human intervention, you generally have to put the pass phrase in a script file or something. >> But I have also heard system administrators protest the introduction of >> cryptographic solutions because some current half measure will no longer >> work. There are even misguided individuals who have proposed putting >> master decryption keys at vulnerable locations like border routers, so that >> messages can be inspected in the fly. > >There are no panaceas, there is no single technology (and that emphatically >includes crypto) that will solve this problem. Defense in depth is our >best hope, which means firewalls plus crypto plus IDS plus better operating >systems and programming languages. Most of all, it means engineering a >solution -- making the right set of tradeoffs, even if unobvious. Agreed. I have no problem with defense in depth. Only, as I said, limiting the use of a strong technique because it interferes with the use of a weak one. >Let me give an analogy. On most electrical equipment, the ground pin >is useless -- *unless* there has been another insulation or air gap >failure within the device, a failure that would render the frame "hot". >But because of the ground pin, such a failure will instead short the >hot lead to ground, tripping the breaker. It thus takes two failures >to electrocute someone. *But* -- toasters and other devices with >exposed heating elements don't use this technique. Why not? Well, >with an exposed electrode, the probability of direct contact with a live >wire is much greater. And if you ground the frame of the toaster, >there's now a direct, high-quality path to ground that in turn is >in contact with the other hand of the poor fool who is poking at a >piece of bread with a fork. In other words, what's a safety mechanism >in your refrigerator is a danger in your toaster -- and sometimes, >that can be true of crypto as well. I guess I don't see the case where the use of crypto decreases security, except if a mis-design causes complacency. In my mind, strong security begins with strong (cryptographic) authentication. [Calm down Bob, I am not ruling out non-biologic identities.] If we have authentication, we can have access control, audit trails, etc. We can certainly add heuristic measures like firewalls and IDS and potentially detect additional problems. However, I have met more that a few people who want to play with an IDS because it is cool, rather than go through the hard and unsexy work of locking down their systems. >For another analogy, think of insecurity as entropy. You can't destroy >it, but you can move it around. Do you have any evidence for this remarkable assertion? It sounds like a council of despair to me. Are you saying that no matter what we do or how much we spend, we can not make systems more secure. Say it ain't so! >Using crypto moves the problem from >the (in)security of the links to the (in)security of the keys. If >you can't protect your keys -- and that generally takes much more than >crypto -- using cryptography hasn't bought you anything. I agree that as we raise the bar, new attacks become the weakest link, but that does not mean you have not increased security. The new weakest links are no weaker in an absolute sense. A better analogy is computer performance improvement. If we speed up the current bottleneck, something else becomes the bottleneck, but that doesn't mean the system won't run faster. The practical reality of the Internet today is best illustrated by the story of the hikers and the mountain lion. When the hikers encounter a mountain lion one begins to tie on his running shoes. The other says "you can't outrun him with or without running shoes." The first answers "I don't have to outrun him, just you." The serious hackers don't waste their time trying to break into AT&T, they pick some place easier. (like the CIA ;-) Regards, Hal ==================================================================== Harold W. Lockhart Jr. PLATINUM technology Chief Technical Architect 8 New England Executive Park Email: Harold.Lockhart at platinum.com Burlington, MA 01803 USA Voice: (781)273-6406 Fax: (781)229-2969 ==================================================================== From myfriends at compuserve.com Thu Oct 29 05:38:51 1998 From: myfriends at compuserve.com (myfriends at compuserve.com) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 05:38:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: Build a Web Site- Free test drive, tell a friend! Message-ID: <75412325_68882773> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- We received your email as someone who might be interested in our exciting opportunity. If this was a mistake - delete or see remove instructions below. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Finally, something on the Web that's Fun, Interactive and adds Value! Take advantage of this Free Trial and be sure to forward this to a FRIEND. Build your own Web Site in less than 15 min. in 9 easy steps! Visit http://www.siteblazer.com and simply enter your info and watch your site build before your eyes. Click here http://www.siteblazer.com anybody can do it! Your Web Site will be updateable and requires no programming skills. Remove Instructions If you no longer wish to receive any of our future mailings, you can be removed from this mailing list by sending a message to pleaseremove6000 at mypad.com. From watcher at freeyellow.com Thu Oct 29 06:17:27 1998 From: watcher at freeyellow.com (watcher at freeyellow.com) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 06:17:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <989.283923.519186 watcher@freeyellow.com> 10/29/98 Y2K Solution! 8 Pine Circle Dr., Silicon Valley, Calif. OTC Company "TCFG" 21 st. Century Frontier Group has through several members of their administrative research department leaked vital information about their companies efforts. Everyone was tight lipped and interviews were refused, and through un-named sources we have learned that the technology and software solution are in the process of being patented! In over 1640 trials, using various data systems the use of the new technology and software solved the Y2K problem 100% of the time. This small publicly traded company "TCFG" which is just 3 years old is through various sources now negotiating with the "Big Boys"! "TCFG" the letters to look for! From mmotyka at lsil.com Wed Oct 28 14:18:46 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 06:18:46 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <36378CD4.4E77@lsil.com> > Shift registers are cracked. > OK. But if used prior to another cipher wouldn't it substantially complicate the job of, say, looking for English letter distributions in a test decryption? I like the other explanation of the hash isolating the key bits from the whitening operation and adequately serving the same purpose as another source. > Traditional block ciphers are expensive bleach, take note. > Unnecessary. > Expensive how? In terms of CPU time? What alternative makes traditional block ciphers obsolete? From mmotyka at lsil.com Wed Oct 28 14:22:17 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 06:22:17 +0800 Subject: personal tracking Message-ID: <36378EC3.6028@lsil.com> There was an SBIR solicitation for an amusing version of this several years ago. They ( army? ) wanted a robotic version that would detect and 'affix' itself to the target. Probably been built already. I can see them now : popping out of the ground like bouncing bettys, dropping from trees like mountain lions, crawling up your leg like disease-carrying ticks...each one with its own address and destruct code. Connection to crypto - secure communications probably. **** TITLE: Tracking and Reporting System (TRS) OBJECTIVE: To conceive, design, implement, and develop a small (vest-pocket-size) satellite transceiver that can be overtly (and possibly covertly) affixed to personnel, vehicles, or goods in transit for the purpose of tracking and position reporting of the host. Prev by Date: 1999 U$ budget for facial recognition Next by Date: airline id Prev by thread: 1999 U$ budget for facial recognition Next by thread: airline id Index(es): Date Thread From ichudov at Algebra.COM Wed Oct 28 14:56:34 1998 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 06:56:34 +0800 Subject: cypherpunks@algebra.com moving Message-ID: <199810282219.QAA12641@manifold.algebra.com> This list will move to another machine tonight because it is relocating to another colocated server. It has nothing to do with subpoenas. Hopefully things will work transparently, but if they do not, write me to ichudov at yahoo.com (there is a possibility that all algebra.com may be shut out of mail). - Igor. From Charlie_Kaufman at iris.com Wed Oct 28 15:02:21 1998 From: Charlie_Kaufman at iris.com (Charlie_Kaufman at iris.com) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 07:02:21 +0800 Subject: lotus notes id file Message-ID: <852566AB.00799CCF.00@arista.iris.com> > I'm using lotus notes and I have a big problem. I have a id file with no >password. How can I get a password for it or reset it. Is there some type of >utility or something someone knows of?I have been told that I'm out of luck >unless I have the original. I assume you mean the ID file has a password, but that you have forgotten it. Notes uses your password as an encryption key and encrypts the ID file. There is no utility existing or possible that can reconstruct the ID file without knowing the password. There is a company called AccessData Corporation in Lindon, Utah that claims to have written a utility that will do a brute force search guessing large numbers of passwords and trying to verify each guess. If you have a vague recollection that you didn't pick your password very carefully, they might be able to help you. I have no experience with the company and have no idea what they charge, whether they actually provide this service, or indeed whether they still exist. Otherwise, your system administrator can create a new ID file for you. That will work fine except that if you have any data encrypted under your key (e.g. you received any encrypted email), that data is forever lost. Notes System Administrators at sites where people use encryption are strongly encouraged to have a backup strategy for archiving ID files for just this eventuality. You might ask whether he did so, and encourage him to do so in the future if not. [Note: the tradeoff between protecting the privacy of employees from nosy system administrators and bailing them out when they forget their passwords is a sensitive one. People have strong opposing views on what's "right".] Good luck. --Charlie Kaufman From ulf at fitug.de Wed Oct 28 16:02:38 1998 From: ulf at fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 08:02:38 +0800 Subject: Using a password as a private key. In-Reply-To: <19981027215307.3786.rocketmail@send1d.yahoomail.com> Message-ID: >‚‚‚‚Assymetic crypto systems such as >Diffie-Hellman, El-Gamel, and DSS, allow the private key to be a >randomly chosen number. ‚But, as a cute hack, instead of using a >random number, for the private key, you could use a hash of the User >Name, and a password. That has been proposed in the context of elliptic curve cryptography where the keys don't need much entropy. I think George Barwood's pegwit works that way. I don't like the idea though. You're giving everybody the chance to run a password guessing attack on your secret key. From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Oct 28 16:15:09 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 08:15:09 +0800 Subject: An interesting set of observations... [fwd] Message-ID: <199810282358.RAA16130@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 14:30:32 -0700 > Southerners are extremely patriotic. Isn't a foreign army in the world could > invade the South, take it and hold it without fighting partisans in every > nook and corner! > >Lost the war but won the peace! > > Lost the war and lost the right of the States to determine for themselves > how they would be governed. Won a strong central government, a huge social > welfare problem and income tax. Sure looks like a clear cut victory to me! ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Oct 28 16:17:34 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 08:17:34 +0800 Subject: Another interesting observation... Message-ID: <199810290002.SAA16193@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 16:21:21 EST > Excuse me! The S. L. A. Marshall study to which you refer; the one that > slammed the American Army infantryman for not firing, has been debunked as > based on pure fantasy by no less a person than SLAM;s #2. Training does work > and ammunition depletion was a problem for front line units. > Although I an now guilty of failing to meet Pauls request to take this strain > private, as a damn Yankee :-), I strongly protest comments by by people > outside the family on this whole GD, err GC, subject. For the record, if your > country has a history of dictatorship in this century, you need to research > your own history, like the government death squads so prevalent SOB. As to > our distant northern cousins, you still have government censorship of the > press, a draconian official secrets act, and border police who stop and search > any US car with an NRA decal that has the temerity to cross into Canada. > In 2 weeks, those of us who remember, celebrate Veterans Day, once known as > Armistice Day. So when you choose to rag on the US, remember Bois de Belleau, > Chateau Thierry, Bastogne, and keep a moment of silence for the gun crazy > Americans who gave their last full measure of devotion. > > Rant off. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From kderby at bayoucity.com Thu Oct 29 08:27:56 1998 From: kderby at bayoucity.com (kderby at bayoucity.com) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 08:27:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: =?windows-1257?Q?<<<<<_CELEBRITY_WEB_SITE_=96_FAMOUS_OR_IMFAMOUS_?==?windows-1257?Q?=3F=3F_>>>>>?= Message-ID: <862566AC.00553B3B.6C@genesis.bayoucity.com> A friend of mine asked me to send this web site to you. I hope you have as much fun with it as I have! www.celebritypctv.com From mgraffam at idsi.net Wed Oct 28 17:21:07 1998 From: mgraffam at idsi.net (mgraffam at idsi.net) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 09:21:07 +0800 Subject: Using a password as a private key. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, Ulf [iso-8859-1] M�ller wrote: > I don't like the idea though. You're giving everybody the chance to > run a password guessing attack on your secret key. That was my first objection too.. But the only thing stopping an attacker from running the same attack on my PGP key is that they don't _have_ my PGP key.. a non-issue for a dedicated attacker. My 1024 bit private key could be had fairly easily, it would entail hacking my PC, or stealing.. whatever. Now they run a password cracker. In the case of the private key being generated from a passphrase, hacking my PC, or stealing it, does them no good .. my private key isn't there .. (ok, maybe it is.. data remanence is a pain in ass.. but you get the point). Lastly .. I am not too familiar with elliptic curve crypto, but it seems to me that running a cracker on a phrase, and then generating the private key from it or trying signatures is going to be more CPU intensive than doing a few blocks of IDEA or CAST, so it would seem to follow that this scheme is stronger in preventing an intelligent search of the passphrase. Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam at idsi.net) "..subordination of one sex to the other is wrong in itself, and now one of the chief hindrances to human improvement.." John Stuart Mill "The Subjection of Women" From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Wed Oct 28 17:38:06 1998 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 09:38:06 +0800 Subject: Rootshell.com hacked via SSH Message-ID: Anybody here have any idea how this was done? This one has me rather concerned... http://www.rootshell.com/beta/news.html On Wed Oct 28th at 5:12AM PST the main Rootshell page was defaced by a group of crackers. Entry to the machine was made via SSH (secure shell) which is an encrypted interface to the machine at 04:57AM PST this morning. Rootshell was first informed of this incident at 6:00 AM PST and the site was immediately brought offline. The site was back up and operational by 8:00AM PST. We are still in the process of investigating the exact methods that were used. The paranoid MAY want to disable ssh 1.2.26. Rootshell runs Linux 2.0.35, ssh 1.2.26, qmail 1.03, Apache 1.3.3 and nothing else. The attackers used further filesystem corruption to make it harder to remove the damaged HTML files. -- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Oct 28 19:06:09 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 11:06:09 +0800 Subject: Forwarded mail... Message-ID: <199810290248.UAA16922@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 00:32:00 +0100 > From: Anonymous > In the following snippet of pseudo-code, what should the value of > SWAP_TIMES be to make the array A[] random, assuming > that getrand() returned a truly random integer between > 0 and 255 > > A[256]; > > for(i=0;i x=getrand(); > y=getrand(); > swap(A[x],A[y]); > } Each x and y is in and of itself random? If so it doesn't matter how often you swap the elements. While there are clearly different levels of pseudo-randomness, true randomness is or isn't. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From vznuri at netcom.com Wed Oct 28 19:20:36 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 11:20:36 +0800 Subject: cohen predicts army patrols US streets Message-ID: <199810290249.SAA20979@netcom13.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 15:42:55 -0700 From: Bill Mee Subject: Cohen Predicts Army Will Patrol US Streets Sorry no URL on this--the following was copied from the FreeRepublic website DOD BILL COHEN WARNS OF US TERRORISM . . . Army Times 10-22 Staff /Wire Reports ***US ARMY WILL PATROL U.S. STREETS . . . An Interview with Secretary of Defense Bill Cohen . . .in the Army Times.*** >From Staff and Wire Reports The Times of Arkansas, Texas and Louisiana: US Defense Secretary Predicts the Army Will Patrol US Streets "Terrorism is escalating to the point that Americans soon may have to choose between civil liberties and more intrusive means of protection," says Defense Secretary William S. Cohen The nation's defense chief told the Army Times he once considered the chilling specter of armored vehicles surrounding civilian hotels or government buildings to block out terrorists as strictly an overseas phenomenon. But no longer. "It could happen here," Cohen said he conclued after 8 months of studying threats under the Pentagon microscope. Free-lance terrorists with access to deadly chemical and biological bombs are "going to change the way in which the American people view security in our own country," he predicted in a Sept 10 interview. Cohen is calling for the government to step up its efforts to penetrate wildcard terrorist organizations. "It's going to require greater intelligence on our part -- much greater emphasis on intelligence gathering capability - - - more human intelligence, and it's going to take more technical intelligence," he said. But using the U.S. military in a domestic law enforcement role would require revisions to laws in force for more than a century, cautions Shreveport attorney John Odom, Jr. "You can't do it from the Defense Department side unless Congress dramatically revises the Posse Comitatus laws." said Odom, a colonel in the U.S. Air Force Reserve and a reserve Judge Advocate. "The 1878 law specifically prohibits the use of the military in domestic law enforcement unless authorized by Congress or the Constitution and does not wllow for military intervention through action by the Secretary of Defense of even an Executive Order from the President," Odom said. We're trained from the first day of Judge Advocate school to think of Posse Comitatus !!! said Odom. "If Secretary Cohen is suggesting that the Department of Defense be involved, it may be part of a legislative package, but it will not happen unilaterally without a lot of folks thinking long and hard about it." Cohen said terrorism would be a top priority in 5 new areas he plans to focus on now that he has wrapped up his first defense budget, the quadrennial review of the military and a new 4-year defense strategy. Other goals include modernizing the military, improbing troops housing and other benefits, streamlining the defense bureaucracy and shaping new military relationships and contracts across the globe. - - --------------DCC19197C8214DDB42B1B018-- - ------- End of Forwarded Message ------- End of Forwarded Message From davidwatts_98 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 28 19:40:45 1998 From: davidwatts_98 at yahoo.com (David Watts) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 11:40:45 +0800 Subject: California Court decision on freedom of association Message-ID: <19981029031629.26946.rocketmail@send105.yahoomail.com> In re DAVID A. ENGLEBRECHT, JR., on Habeas Corpus. No. D030992 In the Court of Appeal of the State of California Fourth Appellate District Division One (San Diego County Super. Ct. No. N76652) PETITION for writ of habeas corpus following contempt finding by Superior Court of San Diego County for willfully violating two provisions of a preliminary injunction. John S. Einhorn, Judge. Petition granted in part and denied in part. COUNSEL Steven J. Carroll, Public Defender and DawnElla Gilzean, Deputy Public Defender, for Petitioner. Paul J. Pfingst, District Attorney, Thomas F. McArdle and Anthony Lovett, Deputy District Attorneys, for Respondent. Filed October 26, 1998 In this proceeding, we are asked to decide the constitutionality of two provisions of a preliminary injunction, which prohibit: " Standing, sitting, walking, driving, bicycling, gathering or appearing anywhere in public view with any other defendant herein, or with any other known Posole [gang] member" and " Using or possessing pagers or beepers in any public place." We find the non-association provision is constitutional, but the restriction on pagers and beepers is not. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From riburr at shentel.net Wed Oct 28 19:49:55 1998 From: riburr at shentel.net (Frederick Burroughs) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 11:49:55 +0800 Subject: MIB Subpoenas In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3637E001.F65DB99B@shentel.net> Tim May wrote: > I advise any of you with links to the idea of anonymous murders and AP to > do the same. Soon. Fleeing the tidal(thoughtcrime)wave. From vznuri at netcom.com Wed Oct 28 20:25:20 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 12:25:20 +0800 Subject: IP: Wanted: Y2K Workers Message-ID: <199810290400.UAA14871@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Wanted: Y2K Workers Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:44:53 -0600 To: believer at telepath.com Source: Government Executive Magazine http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/1098/102898b2.htm DAILY BRIEFING Y2K poses personnel challenges for agencies By Brian Friel bfriel at govexec.com As the deadline for fixing Y2K problems in federal computer systems draws closer, agencies are struggling to recruit and retain information technology personnel to deal with the millennium bug. In a new study, "Year 2000 Computing Crisis: Status of Efforts to Deal with Personnel Issues" (GGD-99-14), the General Accounting Office reports that the high demand for programmers in both the public and private sectors is making the difficult job of repairing all federal computers even harder. "As awareness of the criticality of the year 2000 problem grows throughout government and industry, there is a chance that competition for limited skilled personnel will increase. If this more vigorous competition occurs, the government may find it increasingly difficult to obtain and retain the skilled personnel needed to correct its mission critical systems in time," GAO said. In some agencies, the personnel problem has already surfaced. The Farm Service Agency lost 28, or seven percent, of its 403 technology staff in the first six months of fiscal 1998. Lucrative finders' fees and big salaries in the private sector have taken their toll on the government's ability to hire programmers. The Veterans Affairs Department, Justice Department and Environmental Protection Agency reported having problems hiring programmers. Federal agencies aren't the only organizations having hiring and retention difficulties. Contractors are having an equally tough time competing for valuable workers. For example, at the Patent and Trademark Office, Y2K fixes were delayed three months on one of the office's systems after a contractor was unable to hire qualified staff for the project. PTO had to terminate its task order with the company and find a new contractor. A State Department contractor lost key technology personnel, resulting in a three month delay on Y2K work for the department's Management, Policy and Planning Information System. GAO noted that agencies reported delays in Y2K work for only six mission critical systems, adding that "it is not possible to determine the full extent or severity of personnel shortages from these concerns because they are often anecdotal." The federal government has taken several steps to attract Y2K workers. The Office of Personnel Management announced that agencies could waive the reduction of pensions for re-employed retired military officers and waivers of the reduction of pay for rehired civilian annuitants who need to be brought back on to fix agency computers. In addition, agencies can offer lump-sum payments of up to 25 percent of basic pay to a new employee or to an employee who must relocate. Agencies can also use retention bonuses of up to 25 percent of basic pay. Performance awards of up to $10,000 are also available. The President's Council on Year 2000 Conversion and the Chief Information Officers Council are looking at ways to help agencies hire and retain information technology staff, but GAO said no organization is working with agencies individually to help them find Y2K staff. ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Wed Oct 28 20:28:11 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 12:28:11 +0800 Subject: IP: Electronic March Message-ID: <199810290400.UAA14741@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Electronic March Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 21:58:52 -0600 To: believer at telepath.com ELECTRONIC MARCH A US grass-roots group has kicked off the Billion Byte March, calling itself the first Internet march on Washington. The aim is to send a million emails to Congress in January, on the day of the State of the Union Address. Why? To reform America's social security system. See http://www.march.org **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Wed Oct 28 20:28:21 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 12:28:21 +0800 Subject: IP: Crypt Wars, UK-Style Message-ID: <199810290400.UAA14769@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Crypt Wars, UK-Style Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 21:59:31 -0600 To: believer at telepath.com CRYPT WARS, UK-STYLE UK's Privacy International has awarded the Department of Trade and Industry a Big Brother award for its contribution to invading privacy. The DTI wants all companies offering encrypted services to be licensed, which means using a third party holding keys to the user's encryption code. Encryption licensed outside the UK will not be recognised, and thus would not be protected by law. And only the recommendation of senior police is needed to get a key - users aren't allowed to know if their key has been given to the police. More Big Brother awards at http://www.privacy.org/pi/ **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Wed Oct 28 20:28:25 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 12:28:25 +0800 Subject: IP: ECHELON: America's Spy in the Sky Message-ID: <199810290400.UAA14896@netcom13.netcom.com> From: Patrick Poole Subject: IP: ECHELON: America's Spy in the Sky Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 17:27:26 -0500 To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com The Free Congress Foundation is pleased to announce that the fourth installment in our "Privacy Papers" series is now available online. Entitle "ECHELON: America's Spy in the Sky," you can read about how the National Security Agency has established a global surveillance system that monitors every phone, fax and email message sent around the world. Read the report's Executive Summary below, and then read the report in its entirety at: http://www.freecongress.org/ctp/echelon.html Executive Summary In the greatest surveillance effort ever established, the US National Security Agency (NSA) has created a global spy system, codename ECHELON, which captures and analyzes virtually every phone call, fax, email and telex message sent anywhere in the world. ECHELON is controlled by the NSA and is operated in conjunction with the General Communications Head Quarters (GCHQ) of England, the Communications Security Establishment (CSE) of Canada, the Australian Defense Security Directorate (DSD), and the General Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) of New Zealand. These organizations are bound together under a secret 1948 agreement, UKUSA, whose terms and text remain under wraps even today. The ECHELON system is fairly simple in design: position intercept stations all over the world to capture all satellite, microwave, cellular and fiber-optic communications traffic, and then process this information through the massive computer capabilities of the NSA, including advanced voice recognition and optical character recognition (OCR) programs, and look for code words or phrases (known as the ECHELON "Dictionary") that will prompt the computers to flag the message for recording and transcribing for future analysis. Intelligence analysts at each of the respective "listening stations" maintain separate keyword lists for them to analyze any conversation or document flagged by the system, which is then forwarded to the respective intelligence agency headquarters that requested the intercept. But apart from directing their ears towards terrorists and rogue states, ECHELON is also being used for purposes well outside its original mission. The regular discovery of domestic surveillance targeted at American civilians for reasons of "unpopular" political affiliation or for no probable cause at all in violation of the First, Fourth and Fifth Amendments of the Constitution - are consistently impeded by very elaborate and complex legal arguments and privilege claims by the intelligence agencies and the US government. The guardians and caretakers of our liberties, our duly elected political representatives, give scarce attention to these activities, let alone the abuses that occur under their watch. Among the activities that the ECHELON targets are: Political spying: Since the close of World War II, the US intelligence agencies have developed a consistent record of trampling the rights and liberties of the American people. Even after the investigations into the domestic and political surveillance activities of the agencies that followed in the wake of the Watergate fiasco, the NSA continues to target the political activity of "unpopular" political groups and our duly elected representatives. One whistleblower charged in a 1988 Cleveland Plain Dealer interview that, while she was stationed at the Menwith Hill facility in the 1980s, she heard real-time intercepts of South Carolina Senator Strom Thurmond. A former Maryland Congressman, Michael Barnes, claimed in a 1995 Baltimore Sun article that under the Reagan Administration his phone calls were regularly intercepted, which he discovered only after reporters had been passed transcripts of his conversations by the White House. One of the most shocking revelations came to light after several GCHQ officials became concerned about the targeting of peaceful political groups and told the London Observer in 1992 that the ECHELON dictionaries targeted Amnesty International, Greenpeace, and even Christian ministries. Commercial espionage: Since the demise of Communism in Eastern Europe, the intelligence agencies have searched for a new justification for their surveillance capability in order to protect their prominence and their bloated budgets. Their solution was to redefine the notion of national security to include economic, commercial and corporate concerns. An office was created within the Department of Commerce, the Office of Intelligence Liaison, to forward intercepted materials to major US corporations. In many cases, the beneficiaries of this commercial espionage effort are the very companies that helped the NSA develop the systems that power the ECHELON network. This incestuous relationship is so strong that sometimes this intelligence information is used to push other American manufacturers out of deals in favor of these mammoth US defense and intelligence contractors, who frequently are the source of major cash contributions to both political parties. While signals intelligence technology was helpful in containing and eventually defeating the Soviet Empire during the Cold War, what was once designed to target a select list of communist countries and terrorist states is now indiscriminately directed against virtually every citizen in the world. The European Parliament is now asking whether the ECHELON communications interceptions violate the sovereignty and privacy of citizens in other countries. In some cases, such as the NSA's Menwith Hill station in England, surveillance is conducted against citizens on their own soil and with the full knowledge and cooperation of their government. This report suggests that Congress pick up its long-neglected role as watchdog of the Constitutional rights and liberties of the American people, instead of its current role as lap dog to the US intelligence agencies. Congressional hearings ought to be held, similar to the Church and Rockefeller Committee hearings in the mid-1970s, to find out to what extent the ECHELON system targets the personal, political, religious, and commercial communications of American citizens. The late Senator Frank Church warned that the technology and capability embodied in the ECHELON system represented a direct threat to the liberties of the American people. Left unchecked, ECHELON could be used by either the political elite or the intelligence agencies themselves as a tool to subvert the civil protections of Constitution and to destroy representative government in the United States. **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Wed Oct 28 20:29:31 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 12:29:31 +0800 Subject: IP: No dirty trick, just a computer program let loose Message-ID: <199810290400.UAA14790@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: No dirty trick, just a computer program let loose Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 10:36:35 -0600 To: believer at telepath.com Source: Fox News - AP No dirty trick, just a computer program let loose 10.50 a.m. ET (1551 GMT) October 28, 1998 GREENBURGH, N.Y. (AP) � When their phones rang in the middle of the night this week, many residents expected the worst. Death in the family? Fire? No, just the bureaucratic tone of town supervisor Paul Feiner's taped voice, advising of a change in local trash pickup times. Couldn't this have waited until morning? "I thought it was a member of my family,'' said Barbara Merriwether, 52. "I thought something was wrong.'' The timing of the 300 calls, of course, wasn't intentional. Someone at the police department had forgotten to turn off an automated calling program Monday evening, and the system ran through the night. The only bad news in the affair may be for Feiner, who is trying to unseat incumbent Republican Benjamin Gilman in the 20th Congressional District. Feiner said may throw a party � with his own money � for everyone who was called after 9 p.m. � 1998 Associated Press. All rights reserved. ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Wed Oct 28 20:33:10 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 12:33:10 +0800 Subject: IP: DNA bank launched as science spending rises Message-ID: <199810290400.UAA14849@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: DNA bank launched as science spending rises Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:35:31 -0600 To: believer at telepath.com Source: London Telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/et?ac=000150689433551&rtmo=kokJeebp&atmo=99999 999&P4_FOLLOW_ON=/98/10/28/ndna28.html&pg=/et/98/10/28/ndna28.html DNA bank launched as science spending rises By Roger Highfield, Science Editor A NATIONAL collection of 100,000 human DNA samples is to be assembled so drugs can be customised and people at risk from allergies, drug side-effects and serious illnesses can be identified. The �12 million plan to study the genetic landscape of the British population, which includes funding to address ethical concerns, is part of a major shift in the emphasis of science spending announced by the Government yesterday. Funding for particle physics and astronomy remains almost level while there is a major boost for biotechnology and molecular biology, despite the rise in public concern about issues such as genetically-modified food. Announcing the science budget allocation, Peter Mandelson, Secretary of State for Trade and Industry, said the overall 15 per cent increase by 2001/02 was "solid evidence" of Government efforts to reverse the recent decline in spending on science, which it sees as underpinning the economy. The rise was announced as part of the Comprehensive Spending Review. Mr Mandelson said the science budget "received the largest percentage increase compared with all departmental budgets". Yesterday's allocations saw Mr Mandelson increase funding of the Medical Research Council (MRC) and Biotechnology and Biological Sciences Research Council. The news comes only days after America's National Human Genome Research Institute announced that the three-billion "letter" human genetic code - the genome - will be deciphered by 2003, two years earlier than thought. Now Britain is preparing to rise to this "post-genome challenge" by studying how this code varies across the British population. The DNA database project will be backed by the MRC, which will see its support rise from �290 million in 1998/09 to �334 million in 2001/02, and is being developed by Prof David Porteous of the MRC Human Genetics Unit in Edinburgh, and Prof Nick Day of the MRC Biostatistics Unit in Cambridge. The first step will be to collate information on 60,000 blood samples that have already been collected, for instance in studies of inherited diseases, then extend the collection to people who have taken part in long-term health studies, some dating back more than half a century. Prof George Radda, MRC's chief executive, said: "In the first wave, we are talking of the order of 100,000 samples, then it will be extended." He emphasised that there were "major ethical concerns". By comparing the genetic blueprints of people who suffer disease, genes increasing the risk of illness can be identified, said Prof Porteous. He said: "This is the surest way of digging out the really significant genetic factors. They will be the basis of efforts to design new drugs and preventive measures." One ethical issue will be whether drug companies will be allowed to use the data to design drugs for a particular genetic group. The information will also help doctors advise those at risk of heart disease or cancer, or to identify those at risk of drug side-effects. � Copyright of Telegraph Group Limited 1998. ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From jya at pipeline.com Wed Oct 28 20:33:56 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 12:33:56 +0800 Subject: Assassin Report Message-ID: <199810290351.WAA21867@camel8.mindspring.com> We offer the DoJ report on assassination intelligence and threat assessment investigations, cited in the post on "shared traits of potential assassins:" http://jya.com/ncj170612.htm (110K) It's quite surprising in that the recommended policy is to not arrest potential assassins but to attempt to persuade them to give up their plans to attack, to establish trust in the LEAs who are encouraged to listen to grievances, and helpfully arrange for treatment of whatever underlies the menace. It seems that most who threaten assassination do not go through with it, but do enjoy the attention it gets, so the report reassuringly states. Hmm. True, there are some indicators of imminent threat that warrant more severe measures -- such as the subject's acquistion of weapons, participation in militant organizations and persistent stalking of targets. And, yes, a few performance artists want to be killed on TV. It says that most of the tiny number (83 in 50 years) of actual "assassins, attackers and near-lethal approachers" (compared to the far larger number who only talk about it) are deliberate in their planning and highly rational about why the deed is necessary -- even those who are mentally unstable are totally sane in preparing for and executing attacks. All in all, the report says assassination is not a big deal for it doesn't happen all that much, and the task at hand is to prevent rash acts by friendly persuasion and TLC. And brace for the assassins who never give a clue of what's coming. Amazing. So what is going on with CJ and Jim Bell? Scare sense into them, followed by caregiving, or serious jail time? Recall that the Secret Service (which co-authored the report) had a friendly talk with CJ about assassination threats not long before he was arrested by Jeff Gordon. Which fits the report's policy. Is the IRS out of touch with progressive law enforcement? Putting on a show for effect? Or is Washington State truly a murderous nest of mad dog killers? Other than Microsoft. From vznuri at netcom.com Wed Oct 28 20:38:03 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 12:38:03 +0800 Subject: IP: Congress to Get Echelon Briefing Message-ID: <199810290400.UAA14829@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Congress to Get Echelon Briefing Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:10:30 -0600 To: believer at telepath.com Source: Wired http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/15864.html Spying on the Spies by Niall McKay 12:55 p.m.27.Oct.98.PST A Washington DC civil liberties organization will send a detailed report on the National Security Agency's top-secret spying network to members of Congress later this week. The report, Echelon: America's Spy in the Sky, details the known history and workings of the agency's global electronic surveillance system. The system is reportedly able to intercept, record, and translate any electronic communication -- such as telephone, data, cellular, fax, email, telex -- sent throughout the world. "There is a real and present threat to the security of the US from its enemies," said Patrick Poole, author of the report and deputy director of the Free Congress Foundation. "But there needs to be some democratic and constitutional oversight of how and against who the [Echelon] system is being used." The Free Congress Foundation is hoping that Congress will scrutinize Echelon as carefully as the European Parliament has. The parliament commissioned several reports on Echelon earlier this year and the issue has been hotly debated ever since. The NSA neither confirms nor denies Echelon's existence, but investigative journalists and civil liberties activists have turned up a number of details in recent years. Glyn Ford, a British member of the European Parliament, said he sees the necessity of Echelon but, like Poole, he worries about the NSA's apparent lack of accountability. "If we are going to leave the electronic key under the doormat, then we want an assurance that the people who pick up that key are not going to steal the family silver," said Ford. ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Wed Oct 28 20:39:38 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 12:39:38 +0800 Subject: IP: New Evidence Exposes Vince Foster Murder Message-ID: <199810290400.UAA14809@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: New Evidence Exposes Vince Foster Murder Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:07:35 -0600 To: believer at telepath.com Source: Washington Weekly http://www.federal.com/oct26-98/Story01.html New Evidence Exposes Vince Foster Murder Victim Not Shot With .38 Caliber Revolver By WESLEY PHELAN Vince Foster, Deputy White House Counsel early in Bill Clinton's first term, was found dead in Fort Marcy Park on July 20, 1993. Three investigations into Foster's death, including one by Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr, have ruled the death a suicide. Patrick Knowlton, referred to as "C2" in Starr's Report, entered Fort Marcy Park approximately 70 minutes before Foster's body was discovered. Evidence shows that Foster was already dead at that time. Knowlton saw two vehicles in the parking lot, neither of which matched the description of Vince Foster's 1989 silver- gray Honda. In the spring of 1994, FBI agent Lawrence Monroe interviewed Knowlton for the Office of regulatory Independent Counsel Robert Fiske. Knowlton learned in October of 1995 that his statements to Monroe were falsified in the FBI interview report. Shortly thereafter Knowlton received a secret grand jury subpoena from Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr, who was conducting the third investigation into Foster's death. That same day several men began to harass Knowlton in the streets of Washington, D.C. John Clarke, attorney for Knowlton, filed suit in U.S. District Court in Washington D.C., claiming the harassment was a violation of Knowlton's civil rights [1]. The suit alleges the harassment was part of a larger conspiracy to cover up the facts surrounding Vince Foster's death. On Wednesday of last week Clarke filed an amended complaint in the suit, adding several new defendants [2]. The most striking paragraph in the complaint states: Facts 26. On July 20th, 1993, between the time of 3:00 p.m. and 4:00 p.m., Vincent Foster died of a small-caliber gunshot wound to his head, at the hand of another. The bullet entered his head from the upper portion of the right side of his neck, under the jaw line, passed upward through the body of the tongue, pierced his brain and struck the skull approximately three inches below the top of the head, fracturing it. The bullet remained in his head. Blood drained from the entrance wound in the neck onto his right collar and shoulder and was absorbed down onto his right shirtsleeve. Blood also accumulated in his mouth. This statement of facts, which runs counter to the results of three official government investigations, is a very bold gambit by Clarke. Under Rule 11 of Federal Civil Procedure, for an attorney to make irresponsible assertions of fact before a court opens him to severe sanctions by the judge. In the following interview, conducted on October 21, John Clarke discusses with The Washington Weekly the compelling new evidence supporting his statement of facts. QUESTION: You filed an amended complaint today on behalf of Patrick Knowlton, correct? CLARKE: Yes, we have named some additional defendants in the case. We also have more of the facts in the case. QUESTION: Why was there a need to file an amended complaint? CLARKE: Amending the complaint is the usual course of events in lawsuits. As a party learns more things the lawsuit gets changed. That is particularly true in a conspiracy case. Conspiracies by their very nature are secret. Our job is to try to unravel the conspiracy and that means bringing new facts to light. We have done that, so it became necessary for us to amend our complaint. QUESTION: Who were the original defendants in the case? CLARKE: The original defendants were the people who harassed Patrick, including two individuals whom we named. There were two FBI agents named, one of whom falsified reports, and the other whom we believe was involved and knew in advance of the intimidation that Patrick suffered. QUESTION: Who falsified documents? CLARKE: Larry Monroe, one of the FBI agents who was assigned to Robert Fiske's office. He interviewed Patrick in the Foster death investigation, and falsified Patrick's statements in his report. Later on the truth surfaced in the London Sunday Telegraph. Foster died on July 20, 1993. Nine months later Monroe interviewed Patrick twice. Eighteen months after that the 302's were public. Ambrose Evans-Pritchard was following the case, but Patrick had never heard of Ambrose. Ambrose contacted Patrick and showed him the 302's, that Patrick said lied about what he had told the FBI. So Ambrose wrote an article that appeared in the October 22 edition of the London Sunday Telegraph. That appeared on U.S. newsstands on October 24th, a Tuesday. That same day the Office of Independent Counsel prepared a subpoena for Patrick to testify before the Whitewater grand jury the following Wednesday. They typed it up on a Tuesday for testimony a week from the following day. But they didn't serve it right away. They waited until Thursday, October 27th to serve it. And that was the beginning of the intimidation Patrick suffered. We believe this intimidation was a civil rights violation, to intimidate a federal witness in order to dissuade him from testifying fully, fairly, and truthfully. We filed suit based on that. We also believe this civil rights violation was part of a conspiracy. Under the law of civil conspiracy all members of the conspiracy are liable and answerable for anything done in furtherance of the conspiracy. If the civil rights violation was in furtherance of a conspiracy, even if the defendants did not know who Patrick Knowlton was, they are all liable for what happened to Patrick. That is what we call the theory of the case and it's what we are proceeding on. What we did today was file an amended complaint to name additional defendants who were members of the conspiracy. Even though these people did not know who Patrick Knowlton was, and even though they did not personally harass him, they were a part of this joint venture and that's why they are liable. Two things very relevant in the prosecution of Patrick's case are: (1) if there was a cover-up surrounding the death of Vincent Foster; and (2) who covered it up. About 10,000 pages of documents have been released regarding the Foster death. We just recently completed our review of these documents and got our summary down on paper. It's not in its final form. But we are now in a position to find out who did what, and what happened in the Vince Foster case. We have unraveled a lot of it and that's why we added defendants in our amended complaint. The first defendant we added is U.S. Park Police sergeant now retired, Robert Edwards. He was the third Park Police officer to respond to the body site. As he was walking up to the body site the first Park Police officer was leaving. Edwards ordered him to leave the park and return to his duties. Edwards proceeded to the body site where Park Police officer Franz Ferstl was photographing the body. Ferstl was the 'beat officer'; it was his beat. He took about 7 photographs before Edwards got there. Edwards then took Ferstl's photographs and sent Ferstl to the parking lot. Then two other Park Police officers walked up to the body site, Lt. Patrick Gavin and Christine Hodakievic. They stayed for a few minutes and left. That left Edwards alone at the body site for about 10- 15 minutes, with the only photographs that had been taken. Edwards then tampered with the crime scene by moving the head to the right. This allowed blood that had accumulated in the mouth to drain down onto the right shoulder. He then repositioned the head straight up, leaving a contact stain on the right side of the chin. The contact stain occurred when the chin hit the wet shoulder. Edwards did that because he wanted to make it appear that the blood -- which was already on the right shoulder, right side of the shirt, and right side of the neck and collar -- had come from the mouth. He wanted to provide an excuse for that blood being there. You don't commit suicide by shooting yourself in the neck, so they wanted to cover up the neck wound. So the excuse for the blood on the right side, the OIC tells us, is blood had accumulated in the mouth and an early observer turned the head to the right, whereupon the blood drained out. Then this early observer turned the head back up, leaving the contact stain on the chin. That's right. He wanted to leave a sign of having moved the head, because that's the excuse for the blood. His excuse for having moved the head to the right was to open up an airway, although no one tried to resuscitate Mr. Foster. We know Edwards moved the head because all of the observers before Edwards said the blood was dry, and the witnesses after Edwards said the blood was wet. The OIC never said who the early observer was, but it was pretty obvious that they couldn't find anybody who said they did it or saw it being done. So to the OIC this is an unknown person; they didn't know who this person was, although it had to have been Edwards. This is important because officially there was no wound on the side of the neck. Foster supposedly shot himself in the mouth. But he did not have an entrance wound in his mouth. The entrance wound was on his neck. The blood had drained from the neck. In order to conceal the entrance wound in the neck, you have to conceal where the blood came from. So Edwards turned the head to right to let the blood drain out, to provide an explanation for the blood that was already there. This is also what caused the two lateral drain tracks that came from his nose and mouth going toward his ear. People say those tracks show he was moved to the park. That's not really true. We believe that occurred from Edwards' actions after the body was already at the park. QUESTION: Do you think Edwards was in the know about a need for cover-up when he moved the head? CLARKE: You would think so, wouldn't you? QUESTION: His job was to do something to help cover this up? Is that what you think? CLARKE: Yes, that's what I think. I don't think he all of a sudden, sua sponte, did that on his own, with nobody telling him to. Anyway, the official version is that there was a mouth entrance wound and an exit wound in the back of the head. But actually, there was no entrance wound in the mouth, and there was no exit wound at the top of the back of the head. There was only one visible wound from the outside, and that was to the neck. QUESTION: How do you know that there was no entrance wound in the mouth? CLARKE: Let's do the entrance and exit wounds at the same time. Twenty-five witnesses saw the body before the autopsy. There is a record of not one of them having seen an entrance wound. QUESTION: Well, they would not have opened the mouth, would they? CLARKE: That's true, although two of those persons were MD's whose job it was to inspect the body. But there is no record of any of those 25 witnesses having seen either the mouth entrance wound or the exit wound at the top of the head. The only reference is to officer Ferstl, who allegedly saw an exit wound. Five Park Police officers all prepared reports and in none of those reports was there a reference to an entrance wound, an exit wound, or blood. QUESTION: I thought Dr. Haut stated he saw matted blood at the back of the head. CLARKE: He did say matted blood at the top of the head. QUESTION: I thought he said the back of the head. CLARKE: Right, the top of the back of the head, where you would expect this alleged exit wound to be. He did see blood there. But the best evidence we have is the Park Police officer who gloved up and felt there. That was Officer John Rolla. He said a big hole would be one he could put his finger through. He said, "His head was not blown out. I probed his head and there was no big hole there, there was no big blowout. There weren't brains running all over the place. There was blood in there, there was a mushy spot. I initially thought that the bullet might still be in his head." He uses the word hole, but that's not what he described as what he felt. He said if you could put your finger in it, that's a big hole. He says he couldn't put his finger through any hole. QUESTION: But he did mention a hole being present, didn't he? CLARKE: No, although he used the word hole in general terms, he what he says found at the back of the head was a mushy spot. A mushy spot is not a hole. There was blood back there. What we think happened is the bullet, after it entered under the right jaw line, went straight up and fractured the top of the back of the head. It remained in the head. John Rolla does not describe an exit wound, and Richard Arthur said there was no exit wound. QUESTION: Who is Richard Arthur? CLARKE: He was in the group of the 4th to 7th people at the scene. First on the scene was the U.S. Park Police officer, then one EMT and a paramedic, then minutes later came Richard Arthur accompanied by 3 others. Richard Arthur was the only paramedic in that group of four. He was the second paramedic at the body site. Arthur said that there was no exit wound. He was asked if he could describe the exit wound. He said, "Was there one? I didn't know there was one." That's the other record we have pertaining to an exit wound. The only person we have not covered for whom there is a record of being there is Dr. Haut. Haut said that there was a neck wound. He wrote in his report "gunshot wound mouth-neck." QUESTION: That's on the second page of his report, isn't it? CLARKE: Yes. QUESTION: The first page of the report has a spot where a word, presumably 'neck,' is evidently whited out, and another word inserted -- 'head' is inserted instead. Is that correct? CLARKE: That report has Dr. Haut's signature on it. It is dated July 20, 1993. It is verified. It has an "I hereby certify and affirm under the laws of the Commonwealth of Virginia," and it goes on and on. He says in effect "I swear that I undertook an investigation of the circumstances surrounding the death and this is what I found." Under "circumstances surrounding death," it says, "U.S. Park Police found a gunshot victim, mouth to neck." That's not an error. If you are the medical examiner you're not going to say there's a neck wound unless there is. Haut's statement is the only record of an exterior wound that anyone of 25 witnesses saw. Richard Arthur was interviewed five times and the best record we have of what it was he saw was in his deposition, with no opportunity by the FBI to spin or edit his account. He is asked the following question in the deposition, and I'm quoting: "Let me ask you this: if I told you there was no gunshot wound in the neck, would that change your view as to whether it was a suicide or not?" And he responded, "No . . . what I saw is what I saw . . . I saw a small - what appeared to be a small gunshot wound here near the jawline. Fine, whether the coroner's report says that or not, fine. I know what I saw." QUESTION: Let me make sure I understand. The only reference to a head wound, other than a "mushy spot," would be on the first page of Haut's report. Is that correct? CLARKE: Yes, on the first page. The first page says "Cause of death" in a small area. In there it says "gunshot wound" on one line. Then "gunshot wound" with a dash and then right under it some little black marks with no word there, and then to the right of that it says "head." So it looks like it originally said "gunshot wound mouth" then under it, centered properly, was the word "neck." In order to falsify it they whited-out the word "neck" and moved the paper a bit to the side, and then typed "head." The reason they moved it over was because otherwise they would have to type over the whited-out word, which would have been apparent on the photocopies. If you type over white-out you can tell. QUESTION: What did the autopsy report say about the head wound? CLARKE: We have just covered all the witnesses up till you get to the autopsy. The body was found on Tuesday around 6:00 p.m. The autopsy was originally scheduled to occur Thursday at 7:00 a.m. Dr. Beyer claimed that he rescheduled the autopsy as soon as he heard about the case, from 7:00 a.m. on Thursday to 10:00 a.m. on Wednesday. He rescheduled it for just 16 hours after the discovery of the body. He said it was his idea, he didn't talk to anyone about it, no one suggested it, he just decided to do it. QUESTION: Where are the records of what he said? CLARKE: That comes from his Senate testimony. Both of the Park Police investigators on the case, Rolla and Cheryl Braun, had called the Office of the Medical Examiner for Northern Virginia, Dr. Beyer's office, Wednesday morning as they were getting off work. Rolla testified that he waited instead of leaving work at 6:00 a.m. He said he waited until about 6:30 before calling the Medical Examiner's Office. The reason he waited was he wanted to call to make sure they weren't going to do the autopsy that day. They told him over the phone, "Don't worry, it won't be done till the following day." So he went home . . . QUESTION: Why did he not want it done on Wednesday? CLARKE: There is a requirement that law enforcement officers attend an autopsy. So he was calling to make sure he would be available to be there, because he had just worked all night. So he went home. Braun's story is pretty much the same. Then they both got a call about 8:30 or 9:00 saying, "We're going to have the autopsy at 10:00. Do you want to go?" And they said "No." Four other Park Police officers attended the autopsy instead. Normally Dr. Beyer would perform the autopsy or Dr. Fields would. But in this case, an unknown person assisted Dr. Beyer in the autopsy. QUESTION: Have you found out who that person was? CLARKE: No, he's named as a "John Doe pathologist" in our suit. QUESTION: Isn't that strange? CLARKE: It gets more strange. Four Park Police officers, Robert Rule and three other personnel, go to the autopsy to witness it. There is Dr. Beyer with his unknown, unusual assistant, whose identity is never revealed in 10,000 pages of records. According to his deposition Robert Rule asked Dr. Beyer who the assistant was, and Beyer refused to tell him. He would not identify the guy who was helping him with the autopsy to the police who were there! The autopsy was scheduled for 10:00, but Dr. Beyer began much earlier than that, before the police arrived. He stripped the body, x-rayed it, and then of all things to do he took out the tongue and portions of the soft palate. The reason he did that, we allege, is to hide the fact that the bullet pierced the tongue from below, and the absence of an entrance wound in the soft palate. QUESTION: Is he then named as one of the new defendants in the case? CLARKE: Yes, Dr. James Beyer. QUESTION: How about the mystery person? CLARKE: Yes, we call him "John Doe Pathologist." QUESTION: When you name somebody like that in a suit who is not previously identified in the records, will that person's identity have to be disclosed? Will they be required by the court now to come forward with this person's identity? CLARKE: Not until discovery. We have to do discovery. QUESTION: You will get it through discovery? CLARKE: Oh, yes. QUESTION: You think you will? CLARKE: Sure. QUESTION: What if they say 'National Security'? CLARKE: (Laughs). They won't be saying that. This is the Medical Examiner for Northern Virginia, who covered up . . . 'national security'? They might say that but I don't think they will get away with it. We'll find out a lot. But the astounding stuff is what we already know. Let me continue on with the autopsy. There is also testimony that Dr. Beyer did not photograph the entrance wound -- that portion of the soft palate that allegedly had the entrance wound. Why would he not photograph that? In addition, he reported that on the soft palate there were very large amounts of what he called "gunpowder debris." He said it was "grossly present," meaning it could be seen with the naked eye. He described it as "large quantities of powder debris." He sent his 5 slides containing 13 sections of the soft palate to the Virginia Department of Forensic Sciences. They issued a report saying there was no ball-shaped gunpowder identified on any of those tissue samples. QUESTION: When did you learn of the existence of this report? CLARKE: Somebody told me about it nearly a year ago. This is a very interesting thing. The finding of powder debris on the soft palate by Dr. Beyer is the absolute cornerstone of the entire official conclusion of suicide in the park. QUESTION: That Vince Foster stuck a gun in his mouth and pulled the trigger? CLARKE: Right. That is the cornerstone of the official conclusion. Now, this Virginia Department of Forensic Science report said that no ball-shaped gunpowder -- and ball-shaped gunpowder is the type of powder allegedly found by Beyer -- was found. The FBI laboratory issued a report on May 9 or 10 of 1994, which said no ball-shaped gunpowder was identified on the tissue samples when the Office of the Northern Virginia Medical Examiner examined them. And they didn't really have an explanation. In June, about a month later, they issued another lab report saying the tissue samples had been prepared in such a way as not to be conducive to retaining unconsumed gunpowder particles. In other words, it had been put in something -- formaldehyde or something - - which made it disappear. That's a lie. That didn't happen. Depending on the type of ball smokeless powder, the solvents, in order to destroy it, would have to be either ether or nitroglycerin. People just don't use that to preserve tissue samples. So Beyer was lying. And remember, that's the cornerstone of the entire conclusion. When we look at everything we've just talked about, the only word we have about this entrance and exit wound is from Dr. Beyer. You would think out of 25 witnesses before the autopsy -- an autopsy which is screwy from the start -- there would be some record of the entrance or exit wound other than the neck wound, if it existed. It did not exist until you get to the autopsy, and Dr. Beyer falsified his autopsy. QUESTION: Ambrose Evans-Pritchard claimed he was shown a photograph of the neck wound, correct? CLARKE: Correct. Ambrose told me that; I've asked him. QUESTION: Have you been able to track down this photo? CLARKE: No. QUESTION: Where do you think the photo might be? CLARKE: I don't know. QUESTION: Do you know who the last person would have been to have it? CLARKE: I have a couple of suspects. He was shown the photograph, so you have to ask yourself who showed it to him. QUESTION: Haut? CLARKE: No, no. I think it was XXXXX [redacted by request]. QUESTION: Who else have you added to your list of defendants? CLARKE: After "John Doe Pathologist," next is Robert F. Bryant. At the time of Mr. Foster's death, Bryant was Special Agent in Charge of the FBI's Washington Metropolitan Field Office. He has since been promoted to Deputy Director, FBI. On Friday, July 23, 1993, three days after the death, he sent a Teletype to then Acting Director of the FBI, Floyd Clark. Clark was the Acting Director because Sessions had been fired a week before. Accuracy in Media got this Teletype, which is heavily redacted, through a Freedom of Information lawsuit. What it shows is that Bryant was sending it to confirm telephone conversations that took place on the 21st, the day after the death. He says something like, "This is to confirm our conversation wherein the preliminary results of the autopsy are that there was a .38 caliber gunshot wound with no exit wound." QUESTION: He said no exit wound? CLARKE: He confirmed the conversation with Floyd Clark in which he said there was no exit wound. On August 10th, about 17 days after he sent the Teletype, he appeared at a joint Park Police/FBI press conference to announce the FBI's finding of suicide in the park. He told everyone there a very thorough investigation showed it was a suicide in the park. His having done that constitutes his participation in the conspiracy. He is telling the American people, the press, that it was suicide in the park. Seventeen days earlier he confirmed his guilty knowledge of no exit wound. And this is the Special Agent in charge of the Washington D. C. Metropolitan Field Office. QUESTION: What did Dr. Beyer's report say about an exit wound? CLARKE: He said it was 1 x 1.5 inch, which is about the size of a half-dollar. Remember, it wasn't there earlier; John Rolla could have put his finger through something the size of a half-dollar. But that's what Beyer said. He said he put a probe through the head, and there is a record of one of the Park Police officers having seen the probe going in through the mouth and coming out through the back of the head. QUESTION: Did the Park Police officer sign a statement that he saw that? CLARKE: No, but I believe that he did see that. But that Park Police officer didn't get there until after Beyer had done God knows what to the body. He's reported as having removed the tongue and portions of the soft palate before the officers got there. I think he inserted the probe before the officers got there. They walked in and saw the probe, then he took it out. QUESTION: So you think he may have drilled a hole in the back of the head to be able to put the probe through? CLARKE: I think the bullet went up through Mr. Foster's tongue into the top of his head, and fractured his head. So Rolla said "I felt a mushy spot, I thought the head was fractured, and I thought the bullet was still in the head." He's right on all three counts is what I think. QUESTION: OK, Bryant is also named because in his memo to . . . CLARKE: There is a record of his active participation in the cover-up. QUESTION: Who else besides Bryant are you naming? CLARKE: There's Scott Jeffrey Bickett. Scott bashed Patrick's car in with a tire iron the night before his second FBI interview. One of the appendices at the back of Evans-Pritchard's "The Secret Life of Bill Clinton" is a computer printout of Scott Jeffrey Bickett, showing that he was employed by the Department of Defense. [3] He holds what is called an "active SCI" security clearance. SCI stands for "Sensitive Compartmented Information." That's a top U.S. government security clearance. So this malicious attack on Patrick's car, which Bickett later confessed to . . . QUESTION: He did? To whom did he confess? CLARKE: Coincidentally, to the U.S. Park Police who were handling the case. They said they couldn't trace the license plate number. Luckily, there was a limousine driver not too far away who witnessed the whole thing, who wrote it down. QUESTION: Did he tell them why he bashed the car? CLARKE: No. So, the Park Police showed up and the limo driver gave the license number to both the Park Police and to Patrick. A week went by and they said they couldn't find the guy. So a private investigator was hired on October 18, 1995, and he found Bickett in one day. The Park Police then interviewed Bickett and he confessed. This incident was pretty damned coincidental. It was the night before Patrick's second interview. Patrick had two interviews. The first one was April 15, 1994, when FBI agent Larry Monroe was leaning on him trying to get him to admit the car he saw in the Fort Marcy Park parking lot was Vince Foster's car. Patrick had another interview about 3 weeks later. The incident where his car was bashed in was the night before the second interview. He actually had a confrontation with this guy, Scott Bickett. Either they were trying to give Patrick a hint, or they were trying to shake him up. His car was a 1974 refurbished Peugeot. It was just beautiful. It was Patrick's only possession. They bashed the shit out of it right in front of the Vietnam Memorial. Patrick and his girlfriend were showing another couple the memorial. QUESTION: When did you learn of Bickett? CLARKE: When Evans-Pritchard's book came out. QUESTION: Why did you not name Bickett as a defendant to begin with? CLARKE: Because we filed suit a year before that book came out. The next new defendant I call "John Doe FBI Laboratory Technician." I'll tell you briefly some of the things they hid. Remember, Beyer supposedly found ball shaped smokeless powder on the body. Well, Remington manufactured the cartridges found in the official death gun. They were .38 HVL, which stands for high velocity ammunition. Remington has never used ball smokeless powder in the manufacture of that ammunition. QUESTION: So the supposed finding of the ball shaped powder on the soft palate by Beyer is impossible in any event? CLARKE: I think Foster had ball powder on him, but none of it was in the mouth. QUESTION: Does the presence of this particular type of powder give you any indication what the murder weapon actually was? CLARKE: Yes. It's used by Winchester .22's, a small caliber gun. QUESTION: Whoa!! CLARKE: Yes, it's consistent with reloads also. QUESTION: Professional hit men are known to reload their ammunition. CLARKE: That category is included. QUESTION: Although it seems unlikely to me that anyone would want to reload .22 cartridges, unless they wanted very special properties. But a professional might. CLARKE: Right, for up close work. The FBI lab also hid the length of the powder burns on Mr. Foster's hands. They did not describe the length of those powder burns. QUESTION: Is the official story that he had one hand over the cylinder of the gun as he pulled the trigger? CLARKE: Right. And you would get a blast from the front cylinder gap. QUESTION: Well, on a revolver there are gaps between the cylinder and the frame at both the front and the back of the cylinder, where some blast might escape. CLARKE: You could get a little bit from the back, but these powder burns on his hands were definitely from the front cylinder gap, and they are huge. As the blast escapes from the cylinder gap, it is blocked at the top and the bottom by the frame of the gun. So it comes out in a triangular shape on both sides from the front cylinder gap, which is at the back of the barrel. As the blast flees from the gun, it expands, so the triangle gets larger the farther it is from the point of the blast. If your hand is over the cylinder when you pull the trigger, you won't get gunshot residue on the part of your hand that is above the gun, or the part that is below the gun. The top and bottom of the gun frame will protect those parts of your hand. Now, if you wrap your hand around the gun at the front of the cylinder, according to our measurements, you will have two 2-inch burns on your hand, one on each side of the cylinder. QUESTION: Exactly right. CLARKE: Let's suppose you got somebody else to pull the trigger. You take both hands and wrap them around the gun, but not touching the gun. With your hands out like that, instead of 2 inches long the burns are going to be 6 to 7 inches long. The gunshot residue deposit is shortened by closeness of your hand to the gun and lengthened by its distance. Now, we calculate that Mr. Foster had a 3-inch burn on the left-hand side, so he was not touching the gun there. QUESTION: OK. CLARKE: On the right hand side he had over a 5-inch burn. QUESTION: So his hands were not touching the gun? CLARKE: On neither side. He was not holding that gun. QUESTION: What's he doing with his hands around but not touching a gun that goes off? CLARKE: Think about it. He's in a defensive posture. The gun went off when his hand was two inches from it on the right hand side and on the left side maybe a half an inch. He was grabbing for the gun when it went off! QUESTION: How do you know how long the burns were on each hand? CLARKE: We can approximate the size of his hand. He was 6 feet 4, and he could palm a basketball palm down in each hand. Anybody who can do that has a 6-inch index finger. QUESTION: How do you know the length of the burns? CLARKE: We have sources in the record that tell us the burn began at the last phalange, which is about an inch long. It extended down into the web area of his hand. From the beginning of the last phalange to the web area would have been 5 inches. If the burn extended into the web area, that means it was more than 5 inches. One of the reports -- Simonello's -- says it is also to the thumb. Simonello removed the weapon from Mr. Foster's right hand. He said there was gunpowder on the thumb. That means the hand could not have been in contact with the weapon when it went off. QUESTION: Was his stain also the ball shaped powder? CLARKE: We don't know because it is residue. QUESTION: Is it possible that someone put the .38 in his hand and shot the gun to make it look like he shot it? CLARKE: No. QUESTION: But the .38 had been fired, had it not? It had a spent casing in it didn't it? CLARKE: One spent casing and one unspent casing. QUESTION: Did they do a test of the gun to see if it had been fired recently? CLARKE: I don't know. I do know that they didn't test it until after they closed the investigation. Did you know that? QUESTION: No. Good grief. CLARKE: In fact the letter requesting testing was not written until the 11th, but the case was officially closed on the 5th. A week later they decided to send it out for testing. That was the official FBI/Park Police investigation, which was 16 days long. QUESTION: Why have you added "John Doe FBI lab Technician" to your suit? CLARKE: Because of the FBI report. He says the gunpowder residues are consistent with Foster having fired the weapon. We made a model of the weapon. You cannot pull the trigger with your hands in the position relative the gun that Foster's must have been. His right hand was 2 inches away from it, and the left hand about one half inch". The only way he could have been holding it would be with his hands around it and away from it. You can't pull the trigger like that. Even if he could reach the trigger, he couldn't have pulled it -- it was too far away. QUESTION: Was he supposed to have pulled the trigger with his thumb? CLARKE: Yes. QUESTION: So you name the FBI lab technician because he falsified the documents, in your opinion? CLARKE: Yes. QUESTION: What you are talking about here -- you've said it yourself more than once -- is a conspiracy that involves many, many people. CLARKE: Many people, but less than some might imagine. QUESTION: It's hard for the average person to contemplate that all of these disparate people would be involved to falsify the record. Why would they do that? CLARKE: They were evidently covering up an apparent homicide. I don't know why they did it, why he was killed, or who killed him. QUESTION: What's the next step in your suit? CLARKE: The judge still has not ruled on the defendants' motion to dismiss. The two FBI agents and one other named defendant who was served in the case earlier filed a motion to dismiss. We argued that in January. The judge has not ruled on it. It's a good thing, too, because we have been going through thousands of pages of records pulling all of this stuff out. QUESTION: I won't ask you if you trust the judge. CLARKE: You can say that I trust him because I do. QUESTION: What is his name? CLARKE: John Garrett Penn. QUESTION: Which court is the case in? CLARKE: U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia. QUESTION: Has he been there for a while? CLARKE: He's been there for a long time. I tried a case before him in 1989. QUESTION: I suppose the next step is he will make a ruling about whether to dismiss. And if he does not dismiss, he will then look at your amended complaint. Is that right? CLARKE: He really has to look at the amended complaint before ruling. Part of the argument of the motion to dismiss is our supposed failure to particularize the allegation of conspiracy. Our amended complaint is a lot more particular. So he would not want to dismiss the suit without looking at this. QUESTION: You think at this point with the evidence you have presented you have overcome that objection? CLARKE: Yes, I thought I overcame it back then, but even more so now. QUESTION: How is Patrick Knowlton doing? CLARKE: He's doing very well. QUESTION: Is he getting on with his life? CLARKE: We are both involved in this up to our armpits, so this is his life for the time being. QUESTION: I know you are getting along partly on donations, so give us the address to contribute to this cause. CLARKE: The Knowlton Legal Fund, 1730 K Street NW, Suite 304, Washington, D.C. 20006. Donations are not tax deductible. Notes 1. For more information on the Knowlton lawsuit, see an earlier Washington Weekly interview with John Clarke at: http://www.federal.com/feb16-98/Foster. 2. The amended complaint in the lawsuit is available at: http://www.aim.org/special/knowlton.htm 3. Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, "The Secret Life of Bill Clinton," p. 416. Wesley Phelan may be reached at wphlen at mtco.com Published in the Oct. 26, 1998 issue of The Washington Weekly. Copyright � 1998 The Washington Weekly (http://www.federal.com). Reposting permitted with this message intact. ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From rah at shipwright.com Wed Oct 28 21:14:08 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 13:14:08 +0800 Subject: IP: Commerce FOIA Fails - Department Orders New Search Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Delivered-To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 17:40:42 -0500 (EST) To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com From: softwar at us.net (CharlesSmith) Subject: IP: Commerce FOIA Fails - Department Orders New Search Sender: owner-ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Precedence: list Reply-To: softwar at us.net (CharlesSmith) Softwar is pleased to announce the successful challenge and appeal of a failed U.S. Commerce Department Freedom of Information request. On Oct. 13, 1998 the Commerce Department returned materials responsive to a request on the Computer Systems Policy Project or CSPP. The material returned included a note from the Commerce Department stating that this was the "final" and "complete" response. However, the Commerce Department did not include several documents previously obtained from both Commerce and the National Security Council (NSC) on the CSPP. Thus, the Commerce Department response was neither "final" nor "complete. Commerce officials who reviewed the Softwar appeal have agreed the search was incomplete and did violate the Freedom of Information Act. Commerce officials have notified me that they are now ordering the entire agency re-do the search. In fact, all materials from 1994 and 1995 on the CSPP were missing from the Commerce response, including public domain reports written by the CSPP. The public domain reports were discovered in a previous unrelated FOIA search of Ron Brown's files. The 1994 and 1995 reports included the name and address of Podesta Associates as the official contact for CSPP. In 1995 Bill Reinsch wrote a memo to Ron Brown detailing a secret meeting with the CSPP, a group of computer CEOs, consisting of Apple, AT&T, Compaq, Cray, Silicon Graphics, Digital Equipment Corporation, Tandem, Sun and Unisys. You can see parts of that secret meeting memo at http://www.softwar.net/cspp.html In 1995 the CSPP lobby group was led by Ken Kay, an employee of Tony Podesta, the brother of White House advisor John Podesta. In 1995, John Podesta worked at the White House running encryption and super computer policy. During the same period of time, the CSPP and Clinton officials began holding a series of classified briefings on encryption and super computer export policy. Part of the classified materials given to CSPP members included secret designs for software and hardware products containing "back-doors" to allow unrestricted monitoring by the government. John Podesta is now Clinton's Chief of Staff. ================================================================== FOIA appeal as follows - SOFTWAR 7707 Whirlaway Drive Midlothian, VA 23112 October 16, 1998 ASSISTANT GENERAL COUNSEL FOR ADMINISTRATION ROOM 5898-C U.S. DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE 14TH AND CONSTITUTION AVE. N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20230 RE: FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT APPEAL - CRRIF 98-166 Dear Sir/Madam: Pursuant to the Freedom of Information Act, 5 USC 552, and to the regulations of the Commerce Department, CDR (citation to departmental regulations, obtainable from committee print index), I hereby appeal the Commerce Department denial of my FOIA request dated February 10, 1998 for all information on "the Computer Systems Policy Project (CSPP)" (Please see example #1 - FOIA request of February 10, 1998.) 1. The Commerce Department denial stated in the reply dated, October 13, 1998, that it has completed all searches and returned the "FINAL response" for the FOIA request dated February 10, 1998 for all information on "the Computer Systems Policy Project (CSPP)". (Please see example #2 Commerce response dated Oct. 13, 1998). The Commerce Department statement that it has completed all searches and returned a "FINAL" result is incorrect because responsive documents from the Commerce Department were NOT RETURNED. 2. Several U.S. Commerce Department documents previously obtained through the Freedom of Information Act were NOT returned by the Commerce Department in response to the specific FOIA request dated February 10, 1998 for all information on "the Computer Systems Policy Project (CSPP)". 3. I have attached part of one such example, two pages from a U.S. Commerce Department memo for Secretary Ron Brown This document is clearly responsive to my FOIA request of Feb. 10, 1998 because the subject material is a meeting between the Secretary of the Commerce and CSPP members. (Please see example #3, Memo from William Reinsch to Ron Brown dated June 1, 1995 - CSPP MEETING). 4. I have obtained several responsive documents that are sourced from the U.S. Commerce Department and were NOT discovered nor returned by the Department. The document cited in item #3 above is only a single example. 5. The Commerce Department has performed an INCOMPLETE search and is in violation of the Freedom of Information Act, 5 USC 552. The Commerce Department has not complied with the Freedom of Information Act, 5 USC 552, because it is unable or unwilling to perform complete FOIA requests. Please reply by November 10, 1998. If the appeal is denied, please specify the section of the Freedom of Information Act which is being relied on as a legal basis for the denial. Thank you. Charles R. Smith ================================================================ 1 if by land, 2 if by sea. Paul Revere - encryption 1775 Charles R. Smith SOFTWAR http://www.softwar.net softwar at softwar.net Pcyphered SIGNATURE: BCD2F14ABC8673D9A29401CC86277FA620FE6A979B822B3120EEFA251BD8CB76 2AA47721F2F9ADAC14A0E2D38AB43FADD718819DB7D9874A50724ACB0B0E7E7C 6D7A633ED076B31B ================================================================ SOFTWAR EMAIL NEWSLETTER 10/28/1998 *** to unsubscribe reply with "unsubscribe" as subject *** ================================================================ **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From pooh at efga.org Wed Oct 28 21:32:17 1998 From: pooh at efga.org (Robert A. Costner) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 13:32:17 +0800 Subject: MIB Subpoenas In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981028234903.034b1ad0@rboc.net> At 12:23 PM 10/28/98 -0800, Tim May wrote: >I advise any of you with links to the idea of anonymous murders and AP to >do the same. Soon. Actually I was thinking of trying to get ahold of Jim Bell and get permission to publish Assassination Politics in Hardback along with other info. -- Robert Costner Phone: (770) 512-8746 Electronic Frontiers Georgia mailto:pooh at efga.org http://www.efga.org/ run PGP 5.0 for my public key From hot248 at bigfoot.com Wed Oct 28 21:55:12 1998 From: hot248 at bigfoot.com (hot248 at bigfoot.com) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 13:55:12 +0800 Subject: What's Up! Message-ID: <199810290516.XAA14764@gus.ntview.com>

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From real at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Wed Oct 28 23:05:50 1998 From: real at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca (real at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 15:05:50 +0800 Subject: MIB Subpoenas In-Reply-To: <3637E001.F65DB99B@shentel.net> Message-ID: <199810290624.XAA32754@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> Date sent: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 22:24:49 -0500 From: Frederick Burroughs To: Cypherpunks Subject: Re: MIB Subpoenas Send reply to: Frederick Burroughs > > > Tim May wrote: > > > I advise any of you with links to the idea of anonymous murders and AP to > > do the same. Soon. > > Fleeing the tidal(thoughtcrime)wave. Jeff Gordon's appearance on this list coincided with the apearance of a yellow streak down Tim's back. Graham-John Bullers edmc.net ab756 at freenet.toronto.on.ca moderator of alt.2600.moderated http://www.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/~real/index.html From bill.stewart at pobox.com Thu Oct 29 01:06:06 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 17:06:06 +0800 Subject: Using a password as a private key. In-Reply-To: <19981027215307.3786.rocketmail@send1d.yahoomail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981028012129.008334d0@idiom.com> -- James Donald's "Crypto Kong" system http://catalog.com/jamesd/Kong/ does this. It uses Diffie-Hellman and ElGamal crypto over Elliptic Curves, so it can get away with relatively short keys, 240-255 bits. The secret key is hashed from your passphrase (and/or a keyfile*) Your public key is generated from the secret key and a generator. Because the public keys can be short, there are some real conveniences. You don't need to distribute big clunky keys in a keyserver; 255 bits is just 43 characters of base-64, so you can put it in your mail signatures and on your business cards. Kong takes an interesting approach to key certification and signatures - it doesn't use the "True Name" model with a Certificate Authority Trusted Third Party Subject To Many Government Regulations certifying that the person who has this key has that True Name. Instead, you sign messages, and it keeps a database of signed messages from people, and you can compare a message you have with a message you've received previously to see if it's signed by the same key, and you can send encrypted messages to the person who sent you a previous message. If you want to do the equivalent of signing a key, you just sign a message including someone else's message, maybe adding commentary (which is hard to do in PGP.) Here's an example: -- 2 Dear Carol I've known Bob for a long time, and he's probably not an FBI plant. Here's a copy of his business card. Alice -- Bob Dobbs, Sales, PO Box 140306, Dallas TX 75214 http://subgenius.com/bigfist/pics2/logoart/dobbs3x45.GIF --digsig Bob F9KBGIfyizpoyo8i8NS/Dqe/eP4WVNcXcRJuS14QPXn N9Cm/pDw8sgVDMj8f3upNmp1pSE3rSj0atQuF7Jt 4RgxEDpUxK1DVzBejpH3qqvrqcY2+8M+pSXFB0LLG --digsig Alice 9Xjp1N+QDtXR9Mw1S0gJTnwliGM3rQpuzdogeqOLqii ckd5NlB2nGrQHe4TSMSDd791WEq64XCotsYG0oiZ 4W3Yi4QBCgYC0SnORJFesTOcbCsmGsEnXZRCVrsou and you can go compare Alice's signature with the one she gave you at the Prop 215 Bake Sale. On the other hand, "work on another computer" is a dangerous phrase. If it's another of _your_ computers, fine, but otherwise how do you trust that the copy of Kong or PGP or whatever you're running is the real thing, or that it's not saving your passphrase from the keyboard driver, or all the usual threats. Those threats are somewhat true with your own computer, but there you not only have some control over the machine, you know that if Bad Guys have cracked it, your data is hosed anyway :-) [ * The Kong keyfile of might-as-well-be-random bits which gives you entropy, and makes the system usable in environments where passphrases aren't convenient, such as unattended batch mail decryption done in remailers. You can either use just the passphrase, use just the keyfile, or use both.] At 01:53 PM 10/27/98 -0800, RedRook wrote, approximately, >Asymmetric crypto systems such as Diffie-Hellman, El-Gamal, and DSS, >allow the private key to be a randomly chosen number. But, as a cute hack, >instead of using a random number, for the private key, you could use >a hash of the User Name, and a password. > >Doing�so�allows�the�users�to�generate their private key on demand. >They don't have to store the private key, and if they want to work on >another computer, they don't need to�bring�along a copy. >Has any one tried this? Is there existing software that does this? Any >comments on the security of such a scheme? >The only draw back that I can think of is the potential lack of >randomness in the key. --digsig Bill Stewart 3k3eg3jOiy57hhibcg9SkKVwkCUw7ivtVjJBm2E0WIC 1IidMTkWR0QwVsOPeyEgQ7wdKKVtka99jziuLfOs 4VIpwv6kNvAPJdk49JEtprvCnxTBrNSyViHqgxqGc From stuffed at stuffed.net Thu Oct 29 17:07:51 1998 From: stuffed at stuffed.net (STUFFED THU OCT 29) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 17:07:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY! 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This small publicly traded company "TCFG" which is just 3 years old is through various sources now negotiating with the "Big Boys"! "TCFG" the letters to look for... From watcher at freeyellow.com Thu Oct 29 03:16:11 1998 From: watcher at freeyellow.com (watcher at freeyellow.com) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 19:16:11 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <989.283923.429657 watcher@freeyellow.com> 10/28/98 Y2K Solution! 8 Pine Circle Dr., Silicon Valley, Calif. OTC Company "TCFG" 21 st. Century Frontier Group has through several members of their administrative research department leaked vital information about their companies efforts... Everyone was tight lipped and interviews were refused, and through un-named sources we have learned that the technology and software solution are in the process of being patented! In over 1640 trials, using various data systems the use of the new technology and software solved the Y2K problem 100% of the time. This small publicly traded company "TCFG" which is just 3 years old is through various sources now negotiating with the "Big Boys"! "TCFG" the letters to look for..... From brownrk1 at texaco.com Thu Oct 29 03:35:26 1998 From: brownrk1 at texaco.com (Brown, R Ken) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 19:35:26 +0800 Subject: Soccer Moms? Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F853D@MSX11002> Petro said: > I am currently in the process of catching up on C-punks, > did this get answered to your satisfaction? And more :-) Ken From brownrk1 at texaco.com Thu Oct 29 04:23:20 1998 From: brownrk1 at texaco.com (Brown, R Ken) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 20:23:20 +0800 Subject: UK police chase crooks on CCTV (fwd) Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F853E@MSX11002> > So when are they going to arrest Gorby and Fidel? They killed more people. Castro I assume the moment he steps foot in the USA other than on a diplomatic mission. I've no idea about Gorbachev, I assume as a KGB official he was party to the same sort of behaviour as Pinochet was, but when he got to the top at least he didn't make things worse. Anyway, what about Oliver North? And since when did our inability to catch all criminals stop us prosecuting the ones we can catch? It looks like Pinochet will probably get released in England because of the vile, immoral, doctrine of "sovereign immunity", i.e. that people in office don't get prosecuted for crimes committed as part of the job. But it was still fun to see him caught. The real reason Pinochet ought to have the wind put up him is exactly *because* what he did seemed to have worked and was taken to be worth doing by some people who should know better. Everybody knows that the CPSU or the Nazis or Bokassa or Idi Amin or the Ba'athists are or were tyrants who ruined their countries and lot more besides. The very fact that some people who once had political credibility, like Thatcher or Bush, support Pinochet is exactly the reason why he should be tried. We need to draw a line between tolerable and intolerable government and put his lot on the other side of it. You have to know what the threats to liberty are. Old Soviet-style "Communism" is hardly on the menu in any European or North American country these days and out-and-out looney Naziism isn't either (but that doesn't mean we shouldn't keep our eyes open) Our direct problems are interfering governments, bad measures taken for good ends, corporate power over private individuals, business power over workers and customers, and "law and order" (or the "War against Drugs/Paedophiles/Communists/Dangerous Dogs/Liberals/Scroungers" or whatever). Thin end of the wedge, slippery slope, foot in the door and all that. And even if Pinochet's ends my have been good his means were as bad as they come. His sort of ultra-nationalist, militarist authoritarian government that pays lip service to libertarianism whilst using brutal methods to enforce conformity, obedience and uniformity is still a threat today. It bubbles under the surface in the blue-rinse wing of the British Tory Party, and is quite explicity the line of the French Front National (the British National Front are genuine Nazis, and pretty marginalised, but the FN get real votes in France) And when they get the upper hand then the cattle-prod wielders and the toe-nail-pullers and the death squads come out of the woodwork. Margaret Thatcher wasn't any kind of fascist, but the differences are quantitative, not qualitative. She wasn't so far from Pinochet, Pinochet wasn't so far from Franco and Franco wasn't so far from hell. Ken Brown (whose bosses not only have nothing to do with this note & wouldn't approve of it if they did, but probably voted for some of the people the first draft ranted against) From brownrk1 at texaco.com Thu Oct 29 04:42:00 1998 From: brownrk1 at texaco.com (Brown, R Ken) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 20:42:00 +0800 Subject: airline id Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F853F@MSX11002> Various anonymes and Joel O'Connor discussed sabotaging trains - presumably in order to force >>you flew to. Even with trains, all's it will take is one bomb and >> youbetter believe security will be pumped up as high as it is >> with airlines. > Naaah, you pull rail-spikes to get trains, no big ba-da-boom required. > And it does happen. > > Actually you just put something on the line. It happens all the time. If a fast train hits it there can be big problems. Even a small obstacle (like a plastic rubbish bag with rubbish in it) will cause a train to stop if it is seen. (Trains can't swerve). That just causes inconvenience, unless of course you put something conductive down that shorts out the power - that has a (small) chance of causing a serious accident and a (big) chance of disrupting all rail traffic for miles around for hours. A sort of occasionally fatal denial of service attack. It appeals to 14 year olds. You too can make 75,000 people late for work, cause 30,000 pounds worth of damage and possibly kill a train driver. In fact it is so easy to do (all you need to find is a bridge over the line & a time when no-one is looking, and heave over a stolen supermarket trolley or an old fridge door from a dump, or any other bit of metal rubbish) it is almost surprising that it doesn't happen more often. IIRC, the IRA never tried to disrupt train traffic into or out of London by putting things on the lines, always by bomb scares in stations. There was one real bomb on a train, went off just after it arrived at Victoria, killed a couple of people. It was a train I regularly used, although I usually travelled later in the day. It got much harder to put bombs on trains, or in stations, after that. The main fixes were removing the litter bins from around stations (it took the IRA to teach the messy English to clean up after themselves) and getting people to report unclaimed packages and then evacuating trains when they were found. If you leave yout bag on the train they stop the train. This makes people angry. So there is social pressure to not leave packages lying around on, or near, trains. So if you want to plant a bomb on a crowded train and not get blown up yourself you have a problem. On trains, unlike planes, you keep your luggage with you. Also people *like* trains. They are cute. Even in America you have hordes of trainspotters and steam enthusiasts and model-builders and all the rest. It always amazes me that bookshops have more shelves of hobbyist books about trains than about cars, but only about 15% of the population regularly travel by train and about 60% by car. (In England - I guess in the USA that's more like 5% and 85% - and before you say that that last figure is too low remember there are an awful lot more disabled, vey old, very sick or imprisoned people than most of us notice - I guess that car users in the USA include just about everyone capable of using a car, with the possible exception of the inhabitants of some parts of very big cities) Back to the point - the reason you need id to travel on a plane is because people are scared of planes. Especially they are scared of them falling out of the sky, depressurising or catching fire. When something goes wrong with a plane everybody can die very quickly. When an accident happens to a train it usually just comes to a halt. They don't have heaps of fuel on them (except if you are on an line that is still back in the diesel age - and even then the fuel is usually all in one location, separated from the passengers) You mostly don't die whan a train crashes, or even blows up. Repressive laws get popular support from people who are scared. People are scared of plane crashes so they put up with -no, they mostly applaud or even demand - treatment they wouldn't stand for anywhere else. People aren't scared of trains. Nobody's scared of cryptography - well, nobody wh hasn't received the NSA corporate injection - but some peope are scared of drugs/paedophiles/terrorists etc, so thats the way in for the jackboots. To oppose it we need to reduce fear. Ken Brown (who prefers bicycles to trains but had to use the train to get to work today because of a broken spoke he is incapable of fixing. He only does software) > ---------- > From: Anonymous[SMTP:nobody at replay.com] > Sent: 28 October 1998 17:36 > To: cypherpunks at toad.com > Subject: airline id > > At 12:43 PM 10/27/98 -0800, Joel O'Connor wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From cmefford at video.avwashington.com Thu Oct 29 05:39:22 1998 From: cmefford at video.avwashington.com (Chip Mefford) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 21:39:22 +0800 Subject: airline id In-Reply-To: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F853F@MSX11002> Message-ID: > but some peope are scared of > drugs/paedophiles/terrorists etc, so thats the way in for the jackboots. > To oppose it we need to reduce fear. Thats the most interesting POV I've ever heard of in these discussions, seems like for the most part, we counter fear arguments with other fear arguments, Never saw this before. Bears more examination. > > Ken Brown From ogrenivek at yahoo.com Thu Oct 29 05:43:52 1998 From: ogrenivek at yahoo.com (Joel O'Connor) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 21:43:52 +0800 Subject: airline id Message-ID: <19981029125342.6578.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com> Interesting, I like that. It makes sense. Bill Clinton knows all about putting things in fromt of trains, like the two kids who found his secret cocain dumping ground in Arkansas when he was governor, so he dumped their two bodies on a train track and the train (spotting them, like you said Ken) tried to stop but hit them. Further investigation found that they had died of a massive hemorage, but Clinton's honest people told the public that they had "fallen asleep on the railroad tracks and were accidently hit by a train." Convenient, if I've ever noticed. I guess the thing with trains is that they are fun and a nice ride, but modern societies push to get there quickly escalates about as fast as inflation, so the demand to fly is becmoming more popular as time goes on. I think in the future, the only need for trains will be for shipping us cpunks off to the concentration camps, seeing as most are only accessible by train or helicopter anyway. We'll see though. ---"Brown, R Ken" wrote: > > Various anonymes and Joel O'Connor discussed sabotaging trains - > presumably in order to force > > >>you flew to. Even with trains, all's it will take is one bomb and > >> youbetter believe security will be pumped up as high as it is > >> with airlines. > > > Naaah, you pull rail-spikes to get trains, no big ba-da-boom required. > > And it does happen. > > > > > Actually you just put something on the line. It happens all the time. > If a fast train hits it there can be big problems. > > Even a small obstacle (like a plastic rubbish bag with rubbish in it) > will cause a train to stop if it is seen. (Trains can't swerve). That > just causes inconvenience, unless of course you put something conductive > down that shorts out the power - that has a (small) chance of causing a > serious accident and a (big) chance of disrupting all rail traffic for > miles around for hours. A sort of occasionally fatal denial of service > attack. It appeals to 14 year olds. You too can make 75,000 people late > for work, cause 30,000 pounds worth of damage and possibly kill a train > driver. > > In fact it is so easy to do (all you need to find is a bridge over the > line & a time when no-one is looking, and heave over a stolen > supermarket trolley or an old fridge door from a dump, or any other bit > of metal rubbish) it is almost surprising that it doesn't happen more > often. IIRC, the IRA never tried to disrupt train traffic into or out of > London by putting things on the lines, always by bomb scares in > stations. There was one real bomb on a train, went off just after it > arrived at Victoria, killed a couple of people. It was a train I > regularly used, although I usually travelled later in the day. It got > much harder to put bombs on trains, or in stations, after that. The main > fixes were removing the litter bins from around stations (it took the > IRA to teach the messy English to clean up after themselves) and getting > people to report unclaimed packages and then evacuating trains when they > were found. If you leave yout bag on the train they stop the train. > This makes people angry. So there is social pressure to not leave > packages lying around on, or near, trains. So if you want to plant a > bomb on a crowded train and not get blown up yourself you have a > problem. On trains, unlike planes, you keep your luggage with you. > > Also people *like* trains. They are cute. Even in America you have > hordes of trainspotters and steam enthusiasts and model-builders and all > the rest. It always amazes me that bookshops have more shelves of > hobbyist books about trains than about cars, but only about 15% of the > population regularly travel by train and about 60% by car. (In England - > I guess in the USA that's more like 5% and 85% - and before you say that > that last figure is too low remember there are an awful lot more > disabled, vey old, very sick or imprisoned people than most of us notice > - I guess that car users in the USA include just about everyone capable > of using a car, with the possible exception of the inhabitants of some > parts of very big cities) > > Back to the point - the reason you need id to travel on a plane is > because people are scared of planes. Especially they are scared of them > falling out of the sky, depressurising or catching fire. When something > goes wrong with a plane everybody can die very quickly. When an > accident happens to a train it usually just comes to a halt. They don't > have heaps of fuel on them (except if you are on an line that is still > back in the diesel age - and even then the fuel is usually all in one > location, separated from the passengers) You mostly don't die whan a > train crashes, or even blows up. > > Repressive laws get popular support from people who are scared. People > are scared of plane crashes so they put up with -no, they mostly > applaud or even demand - treatment they wouldn't stand for anywhere > else. People aren't scared of trains. > > Nobody's scared of cryptography - well, nobody wh hasn't received the > NSA corporate injection - but some peope are scared of > drugs/paedophiles/terrorists etc, so thats the way in for the jackboots. > To oppose it we need to reduce fear. > > > Ken Brown > > (who prefers bicycles to trains but had to use the train to get to work > today because of a broken spoke he is incapable of fixing. He only does > software) > > > ---------- > > From: Anonymous[SMTP:nobody at replay.com] > > Sent: 28 October 1998 17:36 > > To: cypherpunks at toad.com > > Subject: airline id > > > > At 12:43 PM 10/27/98 -0800, Joel O'Connor wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > == Ogre bounces like sonar. . .Peace. Ogre _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Thu Oct 29 05:54:54 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 21:54:54 +0800 Subject: Shuffling (fwd) Message-ID: <199810291325.HAA19001@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 22:10:08 -0800 > From: Alex Alten > Subject: Re: Shuffling > The concept of swapping to get a random string of bits is very interesting. > >From what I understand when one shuffles a deck of 52 cards 7 or more times > the card order becomes unpredictable e.g. random. Only if it is a 'fair' shuffle. There are poker players I've met who could put a given card anywhere in the deck after 4-5 shuffles. > The shuffle must be > what is called a "near perfect" shuffle. Perfect for who? Idealy the 'perfect' shuffle (if I understand your meaning of perfect) would be for each card in each deck-half to interleave 1-to-1. This does not produce random anything, it does make it very hard for people to count cards, which is why you shuffle - not to create a necessarily random ordering of the cards, just so mis-ordered nobody can remember what the sequence was and predict reliably what the sequence will be. This is incredibly important in games like poker or rummie where the cards pile up and players can see the sequence (and if they can remember it use it). This is also the reason that all games involving shuffled cards strictly call for a neutral party to shuffle and deal, falling back to the players only for 'friendly' games. Really smart 'amateur' players as you call them also make sure that he who deals is not he who anties first. I've never quite understood where this 'shuffle equal random' theory so many people have comes from (historicaly). But it is fun to play against them because they also (usualy) only shuffle the cards once to twice before a deal. Even un-even shuffles aren't prevention from short-sequence card counters. I impliment this when I play poker, it's helpfull to figure out how many cards to draw because it's possible to estimate the 'distance' between a short set of cards (eg a royal flush) after the shuffle. > In other words the cards can't > strictly alternate from each hand (with a half deck each), but must be > slightly random, in the sense that sometimes 2 or 3 cards may drop from a > hand before a card drops from the other hand. Unfortunately, professional croupie's don't practice for this. They practice for a perfect inter-leave. > An amateur shuffle, like > the one I perform, where the cards clump as they drop, may require 100's > of iterations before the order becomes totally unpredictable. BTW, if > I remember correctly the number of people in the world who can execute a > perfect shuffle at a professional rate (about 8 times a minute?) > consistently is somewhat less than 30. 8 time a minute? That's a pretty slow shuffle. Where did you get this number from? A really quick proffessional shuffle doesn't take 3 seconds. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Thu Oct 29 06:05:11 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 22:05:11 +0800 Subject: update.399 (fwd) Message-ID: <199810291330.HAA19060@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 10:48:06 -0500 (EST) > From: physnews at aip.org (AIP listserver) > Subject: update.399 > NONLOCALITY GETS MORE REAL. "Bell's Inequalities," the > set of mathematical relations that would rule out the notion that > distant quantum particles exert influences on each other at > seemingly instantaneous rates, have now been violated over record > large distances, with record high certainty, and with the elimination > of an important loophole in three recent experiments, further > solidifying the notion of "spooky action at a distance" in quantum > particles. At the Optical Society of America meeting in Baltimore > earlier this month, Paul Kwiat (kwiat at lanl.gov) of Los Alamos and > his colleagues announced that they produced an ultrabright source > of photon pairs for Bell's inequality experiments; they went on to > verify the violation of Bell's inequalities to a record degree of > certainty (preprint at p23.lanl.gov/agw/2crystal.pdf). Splitting a > single photon of well-defined energy into a pair of photons with > initially undefined energies, and sending each photon through a > fiber-optic network to detectors 10 km apart, researchers in > Switzerland (Wolfgang Tittel, Univ. Geneva, > wolfgang.tittel at physics.unige.ch) showed that determining the > energy for one photon by measuring it had instantaneously > determined the energy of its neighbor 10 km away--a record set by > the researchers last year but now demonstrated in an improved > version of the original experiment. (Tittel et al., Physical Review > Letters, 26 October 1998.) A University of Innsbruck group > performed Bell measurements with detectors that randomly switched > between settings rapidly enough to eliminate the "locality loophole," > which posited that one detector might somehow send a signal to the > other detector at light or sub-light speeds to affect its reading. > (Weihs et al., upcoming paper in Phys. Rev. Lett., website at > http://www.uibk.ac.at/c/c7/c704/qo/photon/_bellexp/) > TUMOR GROWTH CAN BE FRACTAL. A curve is fractal if when > CORRECTIONS. Update 397---Among nuclei for which gamma ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From usura at replay.com Thu Oct 29 07:03:28 1998 From: usura at replay.com (Alex de Joode) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 23:03:28 +0800 Subject: IP: Crypt Wars, UK-Style Message-ID: <199810291416.PAA15950@replay.com> In article <199810290400.UAA14769 at netcom13.netcom.com> some1 wrote: : CRYPT WARS, UK-STYLE : UK's Privacy International has awarded the Department of Trade and : Industry a Big Brother award for its contribution to invading privacy. The : DTI wants all companies offering encrypted services to be licensed, which : means using a third party holding keys to the user's encryption code. : Encryption licensed outside the UK will not be recognised, and thus would : not be protected by law. And only the recommendation of senior police is : needed to get a key - users aren't allowed to know if their key has been : given to the police. More Big Brother awards at http://www.privacy.org/pi/ Hmm would like to see on which EC directive/law they base this exclusion of 'foreign' (ie EC) TTP's. -- Alex de Joode | International CryptoRunners | http://www.replay.com 'A little paranoia can lengthen your life' From rah at shipwright.com Thu Oct 29 07:16:52 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 23:16:52 +0800 Subject: IP: A nationhood under seige: Is the nation obsolete? Message-ID: Holy shit. The Fourth Estate figures it out. Of course, the answer to the question, "Omigawd! There's gonna be no nation-states, dude!", is, the same answer to the question "Egad! The Church has no more earthly power!" Which is, "So?". :-). Mort a le infame, as Voltaire used to say... Cheers, Bob Hettinga --- begin forwarded text Delivered-To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 06:41:34 -0500 From: Richard Sampson Organization: Unknown Organization MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com" Subject: IP: A nationhood under seige: Is the nation obsolete? Sender: owner-ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Precedence: list Reply-To: Richard Sampson A nationhood under seige: For 350 years, the world has been governed by the pri A nationhood under seige: For 350 years, the world has been governed by the principle of national sovereignty, but the new global economy respects no national borders, laws, or interests. Is the nation obsolete?< Three and a half centuries after the nations of the world won the power of self-rule, a new force has come along to erode that power and undermine the democratic rights of their citizens. That force is the global economy, which is relocating the economic decisions that frame the lives of citizens far beyond the reach of the voters and their voice. There's a sort of cruel historical irony here, that at the very moment when liberal democracy has finally triumphed over all rival systems of government, the power of markets - the other half of the post-Cold War triumph - has come along to leech that democracy of much of its meaning. This weekend is the 350th anniversary of the Peace of Westphalia, a treaty signed in 1648 by the Holy Roman Empire with France and Sweden and, especially, with the princes of the various German principalities. This treaty not only ended the Thirty Years' War, but also severely limited the ability of the Empire and the church of Rome to intervene in the affairs of the German principalities. In other words, Westphalia proclaimed the sovereignty of the principalities, the right of the princes to rule their territories without outside interference. This idea of sovereignty has echoed down the three and a half centuries since then and is the basis both of self-government and of international relations. Considering all the massacres, pogroms, persecutions, gulags and holocausts of the past 350 years, this principle of sovereignty leaves something to be desired. But it's what we have, the magnetic pole of the international system. More important for those lucky enough to live in democracies, Westphalia is the basis of democratic self-rule, the idea that the average citizen has a say in the decisions that affects his or her life. Somebody else may make the decisions, but citizens have the right to cast their votes and state their opinions, confident that these vote and opinions will be heard by the decisionmaker who, one way or another, must pay attention. It's this right and this confidence that are vanishing in the face of the global economy, which is the one really new thing under the sun. The reason is that democracy is national and so are its institutions. Governments are national and their power to make and enforce laws is national. The power of the vote is felt at national levels, but not beyond. But the nation-based industrial economy that underwrote the growth of democracy is being replaced by a global economy, powered by global capital markets and global communications, answering to the needs and demands of global corporations and investors who can and do ignore frontiers. In short, an extremely important part of public life _ the economy _ is going global in a way that politics and government have not, and so is moving beyond any kind of democratic control. As Americans and the rest of the world have learned in the past year, impersonal global markets can and do cast instant judgments on entire societies, dictate the spending decisions of government and unravel the social contracts that used to bind corporations with their employees and their societies. Peter Drucker, the founder of modern management, has written that we are in an ''age of social transformation,'' one of those historical eras that happen ''every few hundred years,'' when, ''within a few short decades, society rearranges itself _ its worldview; its basic values: its social and political structure: its arts: its key institutions.'' Such transformations, like the global economy itself, are not innately evil forces. Instead, they are amoral but immensely powerful movements that change civilizations. But all such movements are created by humans and potentially controllable by humans, for good or for ill. A century after the Industrial Revolution, societies tamed the economic forces generated by this revolution and turned them into the market democracy that enhanced the past 50 years of Western history. No such taming of the Global Revolution _ or even a debate on how to do it _ has begun yet. The old economy was built on a national consensus that economies exist for societies, not the other way around. Over the past half-century, the democracies created social markets _ capitalist structures that insisted the companies share the cost of citizenship. Tax laws required companies to pay their fair share to the places where they made their money. Other laws gave rights to unions, protected worker safety and the environment, and mandated good health and pension plans. Companies accepted these laws, however grudgingly, if only because it cost them no competitive edge: all their rivals, subject to the same laws, faced the same costs. Now, not only capital markets have escaped into cyberspace, beyond the reach of national regulations. There are about 50,000 global corporations who see the globe as a single market and ignore national borders and regulations. These are no longer multinationals, with most of their operations in one country but with a few foreign branches. The global economy is being driven by global corporations who see the globe as a unit. They have their headquarters in one country, research and development in others, accounting in still another, manufacturing scattered across the world, with sales wherever there are customers. These companies have gone global because, with the advent of global communications, they can. But in the process, they have left behind their old home and its laws. Too often, companies now pay taxes and wages where the rates are lowest and the laws loosest. In many countries, environmental or benefits regulations are nonexistent. Many other countries are willing to waive them for companies that will invest there. In this atmosphere, businesses argue they can no longer afford the social costs imposed on them by society, when their rivals may be operating halfway around the world, in a place where the average wage is $1 per day and environmental laws don't exist. Either, they say, they must be allowed to break the social contract, busting unions and negotiating easier regulations and dumping health and pension plans, or they must go abroad themselves. Often they do both. Good jobs go away and the ones that are left somehow pay less, are more unstable and are less likely to come equipped with pension or health plans. Wolfgang Reinicke, a senior economist at the World Bank, has written that this is an attack on ''internal sovereignty,'' the ability of an elected government to really govern. The laws remain intact, but the ability to enforce them disappears. Government exists but its effectiveness and efficiency are eroded. The economy rolls on, but the public's ability to insist that it benefit society is eroded. Elections are held and votes counted, but the power of that vote to promote particular policies wobbles and wanes. The economic rights won by citizens over the centuries, from collective bargaining to decent wages to job stability to pensions, often depending on the power of national governments to enforce them. As this power withers, so do the rights. Small wonder that government is held in such low esteem these days and politics derided. A government that cannot enforce its own laws is a government fit only for scandals and other sideshows. The main event is going on somewhere else, and neither Washington nor its subjects knows where it is. There oughta be a law, a global one replacing the national laws and bringing this economy back under democratic control. In fact, there are laws, lots of them, with more being written every day, but the voters aren't being asked to help write them. Around the world, bureaucrats, experts, lawyers and lobbyists are writing a new web of global regulations, on stock markets, accounting, banking, investment, even auto safety and drug trials. These talks aren't exactly secret but the government isn't going out of its way to publicize them. They are highly technical and, frankly, pretty boring. But they're important. They're writing the rule book for the 21st Century. New global tax laws haven't been written yet, and environmental or labor regulations are barely a gleam in a bureaucrat's eye. But they'll be written someday, if only because the global economy otherwise will be a jungle. But when they are written, they'll look a lot like the regulations already framed. That is, they will be technical exercises, focused on efficiency and the well-being of corporations, not on democracy or the public health. Nations and corporations have different interests. Nations want to raise the living standards of their citizens, while corporations want to raise their profits. The glory of the past 50 years rests on the creation of the social market, with the drive of capitalism tempered by the needs of society, enabling both to thrive. This 20th-Century thrust has focused on the rights of citizens, as individuals or as classes. The new rule-making focuses on the safety and efficiency of markets and corporations. They are making the world more secure and predictable for investment and trade, which is vital for the creation of an honest market. But it caters to the needs of global actors, not the folks at home. De-regulation nationally is being replaced with re-regulation globally. But in the process, governments are giving away power from national bodies to global institutions. But governments exist by democratic sufferance. These global bodies do not. The growth of the global economy requires global governance. But increasingly, as Reinicke has written, this is turning into ''governance without government,'' public functions wielded by bodies with no public control. Pat Buchanan, the commentator and onetime presidential candidate, has called for a ''new economic nationalism'' that, essentially, calls for derailing the global economy with barriers on trade, limits on immigration and an all-around isolationism that, apart from its basic selfishness, is a national solution to a global problem and, hence, futile. The right answer is to recognize that the global economy exists and won't go away, and to tame and temper it with a new social market, composed of new laws and rules in which the public, for a change, has a voice. For a start, the government should never negotiate new global rules that supersede national rules without making a sort of democratic impact statement on what this will mean to the rights of citizens. This is a ''new economic internationalism'' in which American democratic institutions would cooperate with the democratic institutions of other countries to recapture the sovereignty of both. (This is an adaptation of the Richard W. Leopold Annual Lecture that R.C. Longworth, a Chicago Tribune senior writer, delivered at Northwestern University this month.) KRT PERSPECTIVE is a forum for essays by staff writers from contributing papers. (c) 1998, Chicago Tribune. -0- Visit the Chicago Tribune on America Online (keyword: Tribune) or the Internet Tribune at http://www.chicago.tribune.com/ Distributed by Knight Ridder/Tribune Information Services. AP-NY-10-28-98 0611EST< -0- By R.C. Longworth Chicago Tribune News provided by COMTEX. [!COMMUNITY] [!FINANCE] [!WALL+STREET] [ACCOUNTING] [BANKING] [BOOK] [CONTRACT] [DEMOCRACY] [ECONOMY] [ENVIRONMENT] [FRANCE] [GOVERNMENT] [HEALTH] [IMMIGRATION] [INVESTMENT] [KNS] [LABOR] [MANUFACTURING] [MARKET] [MONEY] [NEWS] [NEWSGRID] [POLITICS] [RATES] [REGULATIONS] [RESEARCH] [SALES] [STANDARDS] [SWEDEN] [TAXES] [TRADE] [TREATY] [UNIONS] [USA] [WAR] [WASHINGTON] [WORLD+BANK] -- ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From iang at cs.berkeley.edu Thu Oct 29 09:00:38 1998 From: iang at cs.berkeley.edu (Ian Goldberg) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 01:00:38 +0800 Subject: Shuffling (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810291325.HAA19001@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <71a4d9$vsm$1@abraham.cs.berkeley.edu> In article <199810291325.HAA19001 at einstein.ssz.com>, Jim Choate wrote: >Forwarded message: > >> Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 22:10:08 -0800 >> From: Alex Alten >> Subject: Re: Shuffling > >> The concept of swapping to get a random string of bits is very interesting. >> >From what I understand when one shuffles a deck of 52 cards 7 or more times >> the card order becomes unpredictable e.g. random. > >Only if it is a 'fair' shuffle. There are poker players I've met who could >put a given card anywhere in the deck after 4-5 shuffles. > >> The shuffle must be >> what is called a "near perfect" shuffle. > >Perfect for who? Idealy the 'perfect' shuffle (if I understand your meaning >of perfect) would be for each card in each deck-half to interleave 1-to-1. >This does not produce random anything, it does make it very hard for people >to count cards, which is why you shuffle - not to create a necessarily >random ordering of the cards, just so mis-ordered nobody can remember what >the sequence was and predict reliably what the sequence will be. This is >incredibly important in games like poker or rummie where the cards pile up >and players can see the sequence (and if they can remember it use it). The "7 times" theorem uses the following model of a shuffle: o The deck is cut into two parts, with the number of cards in each piece binomially distributed (with mean 26, of course). o The resulting deck is then achieved by having cards fall from one or the other of the two parts; a card will fall from one of the parts with probability proportional to the number of cards remaining in the part. - Ian "Who took a course in Randomized Algorithms last year" From frantz at netcom.com Thu Oct 29 09:00:39 1998 From: frantz at netcom.com (Bill Frantz) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 01:00:39 +0800 Subject: log files (was: Re: dbts: Cryptographic Dog Stocks, The Dirigible Biplane, and Sending the Wizards Back to Menlo Park ) In-Reply-To: <199810281713.MAA29423@postal.research.att.com> Message-ID: At 12:35 PM -0800 10/28/98, Hal Lockhart wrote: >2) (Future) Allow only strongly authenticated users. Either a) they are >legitimate users whose identity is known and will presumably not try to >hack the system, or b) they are attackers who have done something like >steal the key of a legitimate user. In the later case, I admit you might >want to see what they are typing, but it will not give you any information >about the underlying problem -- their ability to obtain unauthorized keys. There is a long history of legitimate users who attempt to exceed their authorization. Double agents in the intelligence community and embezzlers in the commercial world both come to mind. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | Macintosh: Didn't do every-| Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | thing right, but did know | 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz at netcom.com | the century would end. | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA From emc at wire.insync.net Thu Oct 29 09:18:00 1998 From: emc at wire.insync.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 01:18:00 +0800 Subject: Two ISPs Seized Over Usenet Content Message-ID: <199810291636.KAA12618@wire.insync.net> New York State Attorney General Dennis Vacco, who is running for re-election, is crowing and posturing this morning over having seized two ISPs, Dreamscape in Syracuse, and Buffnet in West Seneca, over the content of the newsgroup alt.binaries.pictures.pre-teen, thus making a small dent in the distribution of "filth" to ignorant citizen-units. A running gag in abpep-t for the last several years has been for newsgroup posters to identify themselves as various faculty belonging to a mythical "Pedo University" when responding to trolls. Vacco believes this imaginary organization to be a "International Child Pornography Ring" which he has broken up. 13 individuals in various countries were also arrested on various child pornography possession, trading, and promotion charges, related to activity in the newsgroup, and 34 are still under "investigation", according to this morning's AP wire. alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.pre-teen continues merrily onwards, and is presently discussing the arrests and seizures, minus a few of its regular participants. While the loss of two small ISPs and a dozen or so patrons is unlikely to bring the uncensorable worldwide Usenet to its knees, this appears to be a small first step towards eroding the legal notion that common carriers are immune from liability over Usenet content. exerpts... NEW YORK (AP) -- Authorities say they have broken up an international child pornography ring dubbed ``Pedo University'' in which suspects swapped sexually explicit information, pictures and video online. ... Thirteen people were in custody and more arrests were expected. As many as 34 people were still under investigation. New York state police seized two Internet providers, Dreamscape ISP in Syracuse and Buffnet.net ISP in West Seneca. ... Both allegedly carried Pedo University news groups, a type of electronic bulletin board similar to a chat room. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From jim.burnes at ssds.com Thu Oct 29 09:32:20 1998 From: jim.burnes at ssds.com (Jim Burnes - Denver) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 01:32:20 +0800 Subject: IP: Electronic March In-Reply-To: <199810290400.UAA14741@netcom13.netcom.com> Message-ID: > A US grass-roots group has kicked off the Billion Byte March, calling > itself the first Internet march on Washington. The aim is to send a million > emails to Congress in January, on the day of the State of the Union > Address. Why? To reform America's social security system. See > http://www.march.org > Not bloody likely. Inside the social (in)security fund you will find a big IOU to the tune of many billions of dollars. In fact, to the tune of the entire value of the SS fund. If they end up "saving" social insecurity its most likely that they will stick to the same game as Doritos (paraphrased) "Spend all you like...we'll print more!" To understand why SS has never really been in jeopardy, you must understand the function of a central, fractional-reserve banking system. Since the Fed is a lender of last resort to the government, and since the US federal government is never likely to voluntarily let social (in)security die they will simply print more money. I don't mean literally print more money. I mean the fed government sells bonds to cover the difference. If the bond market won't absorb it, the federal reserve is bound by contract t absorb it. Just some entries in a ledger to them. Just some inflation, hidden taxes and future interest payments to you. jim From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Oct 29 09:45:59 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 01:45:59 +0800 Subject: Shuffling (fwd) Message-ID: <199810291716.LAA19879@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: iang at cs.berkeley.edu (Ian Goldberg) > Subject: Re: Shuffling (fwd) > Date: 29 Oct 1998 16:16:41 GMT > The "7 times" theorem uses the following model of a shuffle: > > o The deck is cut into two parts, with the number of cards in each piece > binomially distributed (with mean 26, of course). > o The resulting deck is then achieved by having cards fall from one or the > other of the two parts; a card will fall from one of the parts with > probability proportional to the number of cards remaining in the part. The only problem I see with this model, re real card decks, is that the probability for a given card to fall to the top of the shuffled pile isn't related in any way to the number of cards in either stack in a real-world shuffle. It also doesn't address the problem of 'clumping' where a group of cards (ie royal flush) stay together through the shuffling. This is the reason that real dealers try for a 1-for-1 shuffle each time. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rah at shipwright.com Thu Oct 29 10:21:51 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 02:21:51 +0800 Subject: Interesting Articles... Micro jet engine for Wearable power? Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 12:03:26 -0500 Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:50:40 -0500 Organization: Scientific-Atlanta MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Interesting Articles... Micro jet engine for Wearable power? To: "wear-hard at haven.org" From: Pete Hardie Sender: phardie at sciatl.com Resent-From: wear-hard at haven.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5435 X-Loop: wear-hard at haven.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: wear-hard-request at haven.org Mark Willis wrote: > single spool turbojet > 12mm OD x 3mm long (Tiny!) Weighs 1 gram... > Rotor speed: 2.4 million rpm > Combustor temp: 1600deg K > Output: 13 grams thrust, or 16W electrical > Fuel: Hydrogen @ 7 grams/hr. > > Fuel for 2-3 hours would fit in a CO2 cylinder sized container or so > They use air bearings, and a *silicon* spool, no nickel metal > sintered exotics here... This little puppy will run a wearable nicely > when it gets to production! (The original is for a small surveillance > aircraft, 16W power budget isn't bad though!) I imagine it puts out > some heat, of course... But that annoying roar and jet of flame..... -- Pete Hardie | Goalie, DVSG Dart Team Scientific Atlanta | Digital Video Services Group | -- Subcription/unsubscription/info requests: send e-mail with subject of "subscribe", "unsubscribe", or "info" to wear-hard-request at haven.org Wear-Hard Mailing List Archive (searchable): http://wearables.ml.org --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From concerned at aol.com Fri Oct 30 05:25:03 1998 From: concerned at aol.com (concerned at aol.com) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 05:25:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199810301318.FAA12335@toad.com> Oct.30th,1998 Y2K Solution! 8 Pine Circle Dr., Silicon Valley, Calif. OTC Company "TCFG" 21 st. Century Frontier Group has through several members of their administrative research department leaked vital information about their companies efforts. Everyone was tight lipped and interviews were refused, and through un-named sources we have learned that the technology and software solution are in the process of being patented! In over 1640 trials, using various data systems the use of the new technology and software solved the Y2K problem 100% of the time. This small publicly traded company "TCFG" which is just 3 years old is through various sources now negotiating with the "Big Boys"! "TCFG" the letters to look for! From ichudov at Algebra.COM Thu Oct 29 16:25:14 1998 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 08:25:14 +0800 Subject: test Message-ID: <199810292351.RAA25980@manifold.algebra.com> test From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Thu Oct 29 16:42:36 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 08:42:36 +0800 Subject: Shuffling (fwd) Message-ID: <199810300024.SAA21942@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 19:22:52 +0100 > From: Anonymous > Subject: Re: Shuffling > For any N greater than two, the random-swap algorithm cannot produce > a perfectly smooth randomization of A[N]. If by 'perfectly smooth randomization of A[N]' you mean that any two members of A[N] have equaly likelyhood to be swapped, and hence any pattern of A[N] members being possible with equal odds then this is incorrect. For that arrangement to be relevant your (P)RNG function must choose any element from 0 to N with equal odds, it's probability curve must be a horizontal line at 1/n for each N. If it ain't you aren't going to randomly shuffle the elements of A[] since each element doesn't have the same odds of being selected in this (or every other) turn. > A perfect randomization of A[N] would give equal probability to each of > the N! (N factorial) possible rearrangements of A. Ah, but there aren't N! rearrangements of A if we are limited to only swapping two elements. There are at best n^2. Allow me to explain... > Each iteration of the random-swap algorithm makes two choices of the N > values to swap. There are N^2 possible ways these two choices could go. Ok, we shoot off our first random number, 1/n. We then shoot off our second random number, also 1/n. The combination is 1/n * 1/n or 1/n^2. Now if we add the stipulation about the i'th and i+1'st numbers not being identical then the odds are 1/n * 1/n-1 (note that this boundary condition is artificial and may in fact be problematic, there is no logical reason to keep i and i+1 from being the same n if we want truly random behaviour). > To calculate the probabilities after an iteration, we try all the N^2 > choices and count how many instances of each arrangement are produced. Huh? What probability are we calculating here, the odds of getting the particular pattern we have now generated? If so that is either 1/n^2 or 1/n(n-1) depending on the boundary condition. > This gives each possible arrangement a probability in the form of > k/N^2, where k of the N^2 choices led to that arrangement. What arrangement, the one we start with before or after the swap? If we start with arrangement I and then swap two elements we get I+1. There are only two ways to get to any particular arrangment. An identical arrangement where we swap i with itself (ignoring the potential boundary condition) and the arrangement where the l'th and j'th elements are swapped. As long as we're only swapping two elements there can only be two possible parent patterns for any given resultant pattern. Now if we swap more than 2 elements it gets big fast. I seem to be reading an implication that given a particular pattern, I, there is some rhyme or reason to the pattern of previous I's that got us here, there isn't. For any given pattern there is a infinite number of potential paths that would get to any particular. Let's say we have: [ 0 1 2 4 3 ] and we shuffle and get, [ 0 4 2 1 3 ] or, [ 0 1 2 4 3 ] Now if the question is how many possible ways could be have gotten to the original, [ 0 1 2 4 3 ], then there are two ways to calculate that, given no stipulation on reptitions we get: n^2 given a stipulation for no repetitions we get: (n)(n-1) We can generalize this somewhat if we let s represent our current sequence and our goal is to determine the number of possible previous states the sequence could have held. s-1 = n^2 or, s-1 = n(n-1) Now if we want to calculate the number of possible parent generations for s-1 *from the perspective of s0* we get: s-2 = (s-1)^2 = (n^2)^2 or, s-2 = (s-1)((s-1)-1) = (n^2)((n^2)-1) Thus, s-3 = (s-2)^2 = ((s-1)^2)^2 = ((n^2)^2)^2 or, s-3 = (s-2)((s-2)-1) = ( (n^2)((n^2)-1) )( ((n^2)((n^2)-1) )-1) = (n^4 - n^2)( (n^4 - n^2) - 1) for the second form only, s-4 = (s-3)((s-3)-1) = ((n^4-n^2)((n^4-n^2)-1))(((n^4-n^2)((n^4-n^2)-1))-1) = ((n^4-n^2)^2 - (n^4-n^2)) (n^4-n^2)^2-(n^4-n^2))-1) (I'm going to stop here trying to resolve this equation, I don't have the time. Note that the relation is i(i-1) for each generation so we only need to affix a relation to i and the generation number. It's worth noting this can be resolved recursively.) These can be generalized for the first form to: C(s-i) = n^(2^i), where i is the number of generations going back. The inverse makes a handy measure of entropy as well as telling you the odds of selecting any particular path from one pattern to another pattern given the number of elements swaps that are allowed. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From mixmaster at remail.obscura.com Thu Oct 29 17:52:31 1998 From: mixmaster at remail.obscura.com (Mixmaster) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 09:52:31 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <149dd87864f91b7efecc26d6611b4a49@anonymous> Can someone do a fill in/summary/recapitulation? I'm not sure I understand all of this and the MIB stuff... -----Original Message----- From: Anonymous To: cypherpunks at toad.com Date: Tuesday, October 27, 1998 8:45 PM :[Two letters received by fax on 27 October 1998] : :---------- : :[Letter 1, cover and 16 pages] : :8 September 1998 : :Cover Sheet : :Declan : :The Good News is that I have a pen to write :with, due to the Free Enterprise System being :alive & well within the Prison System. : :The Bad News is that Micro$oft Pens (TM) :controls 95% of the market... : :I am hoping you can share as much of this :communique as possible with the CPUNX, :since my chain is constantly getting yanked :in different directions, making outside contact :sporatic & unreliable. : :Feel free to reserve for your own use any :of the enclosed information you need for your :own journalistic purposes. : :I will try to reach you by phone (automated :collect-call system requiring touch-tone on :your end). : :Thanks for the Mags, : : CJ Parker : :ps# My prison cell mirror now reads, :"Chocolate Skelter." (Brownie & Milk) : :------------------------------------------------ : :[FLORENCE NUTLY NEWS - "I'M HERE BECAUSE I :believe that the KONTROLLERS are taking :actions that create obstacles to the freedom :and openess of the Internet. ~Truth Glaser] : :Declan, : :Looks like you may be receiving the *only* copy :of the Florence Nutly News, since I have, up :until now, been writing on paper towels and :medicine cups, using combinations of blood, :sperm and chocolate (two of which are in short :supply) for ink, and I will soon be headed :to Nutly News Head (pardon the pun) Quarters :in Springfield, Missouri, for Rewiring of :my Brain Circuity. From informant at earthlink.net Fri Oct 30 11:20:11 1998 From: informant at earthlink.net (informant at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 11:20:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <989.283923.236761 informant@earthlink.net> 10/30/98 Y2K Solution! 8 Pine Circle Dr., Silicon Valley, Calif. OTC Company "TCFG" 21 st. Century Frontier Group has through several members of their administrative research department leaked vital information about their companies efforts. Everyone was tight lipped and interviews were refused, and through un-named sources we have learned that the technology and software solution are in the process of being patented! In over 1640 trials, using various data systems the use of the new technology and software solved the Y2K problem 100% of the time. This small publicly traded company "TCFG" which is just 3 years old is through various sources now negotiating with the "Big Boys"! "TCFG" the letters to look for..... From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Thu Oct 29 20:56:46 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 12:56:46 +0800 Subject: Random array (fwd) Message-ID: <199810300436.WAA23127@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 20:04:57 -0800 > From: Jim Gillogly > Subject: Re: Random array > One could modify Greg's suggestion slightly by attaching an auxiliary > array of 256 random numbers to each of the members of the original > array and then using the most efficient handy sort algorithm to sort > those random numbers, dragging along their associated original array > elements. This way it doesn't have a chance to interfere with the > operation of the sorting algorithm, at the cost of an extra array. So you've got a set of arrays that have 256 numbers in them, whether they are random or not is irrelevant since we're going to sort them and break their randomness. It is merely sufficient that they all be reasonably (what the hell ever that's going to mean) different, if they're all 6's for example it isn't going to be very interesting. If I understand the process. Each array would cycle through in parallel sorting 2 elements of each array. Once that was finished we'd then sort the arrays themselves according to some process. From your description it seems to imply that you're going to sort the 1st element descending at that point. This in effect mis-orders each array after every sort. This sort of system is an IFS and could lead to determinism (ie a cycle of sort patterns that repeat endlessly) or chaos (ie a pattern that doesn't repeat). It in and of itself doesn't guarantee any randomness merely a continously munged sort. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From guy at panix.com Thu Oct 29 21:03:00 1998 From: guy at panix.com (Information Security) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 13:03:00 +0800 Subject: Jim Gilmore Message-ID: <199810300425.XAA19931@panix7.panix.com> > from ppoole at fcref.org CfCL Weekly Update 10/30/98 ***** Companies Create New Crypto Back Door Hewlett-Packard and Wave Systems announced Tuesday that they have developed a new programmable chip that can be adjusted to match prevailing encryption policies. This system will only allow a computer to encrypt data to the maximum level that local regulations allow. The new program, called EMBASSY, must be registered with a "designated local authority", who will activate the cryptography application. The companies behind EMBASSY are hoping that the program will meet the new Department of Commerce encryption export standards, which currently place a 56-bit limit on exported software applications. While 90 percent of countries have no domestic-use policies, the program allows law enforcement agencies that mandate key recovery features, such as France, to be able to obtain access to a user's encrypted files under certain circumstances. Several countries, including the UK, Germany, France, Denmark, Japan and Australia have already approved the technology. The US will not issue export license until they are certain that the recovery elements have been tested. Privacy advocates were critical of EMBASSY. Jim Gilmore, co-founder of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, expressed concern that the cooperation of Hewlett-Packard and Wave Systems with the government may lead to more surreptitious features being included into the program. "What other black boxes have they put in this chip? Keystroke monitoring? Recording traffic across the bus?" asked Gilmore. "If they're giving you a black box, who's to say what other capabilities are actually in that chip?" Read this related WIRED News article: http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/15848.html From nobody at replay.com Thu Oct 29 21:46:47 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 13:46:47 +0800 Subject: cohen predicts army patrols US streets Message-ID: <199810300514.GAA01398@replay.com> >"Terrorism is escalating to the point that Americans soon >may have to choose between civil liberties and more >intrusive means of protection," says Defense Secretary >William S. Cohen This is the classic intro into a dictatorhip and militarisation of a society. I wonder if someone can dig up Hitler's speeches on the subject. >"It could happen here," Cohen said he conclued after 8 >months of studying threats under the Pentagon microscope. Sure. I bet this has nothing to do with the surge of false "bomb threats" in Austin and SIlicon Valley high-tech companies or flooding mass media with descriptions of dangers from domestic terrorism. Public must be aware of the "presence" of undesirables first. Who is it going to be this time, after cpunks are dealt with ? From guy at panix.com Thu Oct 29 22:09:33 1998 From: guy at panix.com (Information Security) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 14:09:33 +0800 Subject: William H. Gates III Message-ID: <199810300528.AAA20342@panix7.panix.com> Leading digits "539"...what state was he born in? ---guy ====================================================================== SCAN THIS NEWS 10/29/98 The following information is posted on the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission's (SEC) "EDGAR" database located at: http://www.sec.gov/edaux/formlynx.htm In the "Enter a company" box, search on - "MICROSOFT CORP" You'll find the following file - Date Filed Forms CIK Code Company Name "02-07-1996 SC 13G/A 789019 MICROSOFT CORP" Click on this link and you'll find the following information - MAIL ADDRESS: STREET 1: ONE MICROSOFT WAY - BLDG 8 STREET 2: NORTH OFFICE 2211 CITY: REDMOND STATE: WA ZIP: 98052-6399 FILED BY: NAME OF REPORTING PERSON S.S. or I.R.S. Identification No. of Above Person William H. Gates III Social Security #: 539-60-5125 SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION Washington, D.C. 20549 SCHEDULE 13G Under the Securities Exchange Act of 1934 (Amendment No. 7)* MICROSOFT CORPORATION ====================================================================== From pooh at efga.org Thu Oct 29 22:56:19 1998 From: pooh at efga.org (Robert A. Costner) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 14:56:19 +0800 Subject: William H. Gates III In-Reply-To: <199810300528.AAA20342@panix7.panix.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981030011656.03b03cb0@rboc.net> 531-539 ...Washington according to http://www.ssa.gov/foia/stateweb.html BTW - When you look at http://www.ssa.gov/foia/oct98hg.htm The last two digit group issued for 539 is "39". And according to http://www.ssa.gov/foia/ssnweb.html the numbers are not issued in sequence, but according to an strange method. The early odds, then the evens, then the rest of the odd number groups. Just in case anyone wants to understand how to detect bogus numbers. At 12:28 AM 10/30/98 -0500, Information Security wrote: >Leading digits "539"...what state was he born in? >---guy > >====================================================================== >SCAN THIS NEWS >10/29/98 ... > William H. Gates III Social Security #: 539-60-5125 -- Robert Costner Phone: (770) 512-8746 Electronic Frontiers Georgia mailto:pooh at efga.org http://www.efga.org/ run PGP 5.0 for my public key From jdo at hyperreal.art.pl Fri Oct 30 01:02:12 1998 From: jdo at hyperreal.art.pl (Jan Dobrucki) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:02:12 +0800 Subject: Super computer SR2201 at PJWSTK Message-ID: <3638DF42.6B7618BB@hyperreal.art.pl> I got news for you all. I'm applying for an account on a super computer which we got in our school. I need to write the reason why I need to have such an account. The reason why I want to put is: to break a DES-56 bit key encrypted message. I don't know if my applications for the account will be accepted, but if you got any ideas now as to how you'd like to use the computational power of a super computer, just let me know... http://www.pjwstk.waw.pl/sr2201/index.html this is the address to the page at my school about the SR2201, but it's in polish... i might translate it one day soon... Looking foreward to your comments and ideas. JD PS. My return address is somewhat messed up. Just send mail to either the list, or to s1180 at qmail.pjwstk.waw.pl for some reason, the server at my school, PJWSTK, says that your domain is not accepted. For some reason, it says so for all domains. From nobody at replay.com Fri Oct 30 01:02:34 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:02:34 +0800 Subject: MIB Subpoenas Message-ID: <199810292136.WAA20955@replay.com> At 12:23 PM 10/28/98 -0800, Tim May wrote: >The first thing I did when I heard about the latest case, that of Toto, was >to purge any private mail messages between myself and Toto or any of his >alleged nyms. (My backups may have old messages, but I've been trying to >find them all and destroy or recopy them sans the Toto messages.) > >I advise any of you with links to the idea of anonymous murders and AP to >do the same. Soon. Tim, Betty Currie will be by to pick up the rest of the backup tapes... From honig at sprynet.com Fri Oct 30 01:05:45 1998 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:05:45 +0800 Subject: bug in my Maurer code; retraction of claim; ref Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981029122825.007d1cd0@m7.sprynet.com> There was a numerical bug in the C code for Maurer's Univ. Stat. Test for Randomness which I posted. The "float" variable "Sum" should be "double". This will cause an incorrect input-size dependence for large >40Mbyte files. Measuring (with the fixed version) the output of a block cipher in feedback mode, I find that it DOES NOT differ from truly nondeterministic noise, as I had claimed. The difference I had observed was due to a larger sample size for my cipher-noise. Boy do I feel stupid. Needless to say, sorry about any inconvenience. The fixed code follows at the bottom. This version also spits out an early estimate after a million samples; this turns out to be very close to the final value for (homogenous) large samples. Also: I recently found the following amendment to Maurer's work at http://www.eleves.ens.fr:8080/home/coron/escience.html#1 Abstract. Maurer's universal test is a very common randomness test, capable of detecting a wide gamut of statistical defects. The algorithm is simple (a few Java code lines), flexible (a variety of parameter combinations can be chosen by the tester) and fast. Although the test is based on sound probabilistic grounds, one of its crucial parts uses the heuristic approximation: c(L,K) = 0.7 - 0.8/L + (1.6 + 12.8/L)K-4/L In this work we compute the precise value of c(L,K) and show that the inaccuracy due to the heuristic estimate can make the test 2.67 times more permissive than what is theoretically admitted. Moreover, we etablish a new asymptotic relation between the test parameter and the source's entropy. 09/08/98 - Jean-S�bastien Coron ..................................... /* UELI.c 28 Oct 98 This implements Ueli M Maurer's "Universal Statistical Test for Random Bit Generators" using L=16 Accepts a filename on the command line; writes its results, with other info, to stdout. Handles input file exhaustion gracefully. Ref: J. Cryptology v 5 no 2, 1992 pp 89-105 also on the web somewhere, which is where I found it. -David Honig honig at sprynet.com Built with Wedit 2.3, lcc-win32 http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~lcc-win32 26 Sept CP Release Version Notes: This version does L=16. It evolved from an L=8 prototype which I ported from the Pascal in the above reference. I made the memory usage reasonable by replacing Maurer's "block" array with the 'streaming' fgetc() call. 27 Oct 98 compiled under Sun cc OK if C++ stuff taken out.. 28 Oct 98 made "Sum" into a double, from float; fixes a bug found with larger (40M files); reposted with retraction. Usage: ULI filename outputs to stdout */ #define L 16 // bits per block #define V (1< #include int main( int argc, char **argv ) { FILE *fptr; int i; int b, c; int table[V]; double sum=0.0; int run; // Human Interface printf("UELI 27 Oct 98 double-precision, with early value\n L=%d %d %d \n", L, V, MAXSAMP); if (argc <2) {printf("Usage: ULI filename\n"); exit(-1); } else printf("Measuring file %s\n", argv[1]); // FILE IO fptr=fopen(argv[1],"rb"); if (fptr == NULL) {printf("Can't find %s\n", argv[1]); exit(-1); } // INIT for (i=0; i in fact, large number of security studies show that variety of operations are at greatest risk from insiders. From frissell at panix.com Fri Oct 30 01:06:35 1998 From: frissell at panix.com (Duncan Frissell) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:06:35 +0800 Subject: UK police chase crooks on CCTV (fwd) In-Reply-To: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F853E@MSX11002> Message-ID: <4.0.2.19981029092518.03f5bdf0@panix.com> At 05:41 AM 10/29/98 -0600, Brown, R Ken wrote: >> So when are they going to arrest Gorby and Fidel? They killed more >people. > >Castro I assume the moment he steps foot in the USA other than on a >diplomatic mission. I've no idea about Gorbachev, I assume as a KGB >official he was party to the same sort of behaviour as Pinochet was, but >when he got to the top at least he didn't make things worse. Anyway, >what about Oliver North? And since when did our inability to catch all >criminals stop us prosecuting the ones we can catch? Castro was in Spain on the same day Spain tried to extradite Pinochet. Pinochet is accused of murdering 4K people. Castro murdered many more than 4K people. Gorby had a couple of massacres during his regime. One in the Baltics and as I recall one in Georgia. I'm sure collectively he killed more than 4K of people. He no longer has diplomatic immunity either. My point is not that we shouldn't grab them it's that the "Human Rights Community" is politically discriminatory and wouldn't think of going after commies. How about Mandella. The Truth and Reconcilliation Commission report says that the ANC was guilty of plenty of human rights violations. >The very fact >that some people who once had political credibility, like Thatcher or >Bush, support Pinochet is exactly the reason why he should be tried. We >need to draw a line between tolerable and intolerable government and put >his lot on the other side of it. The very fact that some people who once had political credibility, like FDR or Henry Wallace, support Joe Stalin is exactly the reasom why he should be tried. We need to draw the line... And how about all those American commies whose cancelled paychecks from Moscow we recently recovered from the KGB files. And what about the Butcher of Waco? >You have to know what the threats to liberty are. Old Soviet-style >"Communism" is hardly on the menu in any European or North American >country these days and out-and-out looney Naziism isn't either Be careful with this argument because Pinochet could propose a necessity defense. If you say communism is worse, then he can say he had to do it to prevent communism. Also, "human rights violation" is a vague charge. There are students in the UK who are mad at Red Tony for the human rights violation of starting to charge college tuition and depriving them of a free college education. American tax cutters are regularly accused of the "human rights violation" of letting people keep more of their own money. It can hardly be illegal for governments to kill their own citizens. They do it all the time. The US governments kill hundreds or thousands every year depending on how you do the math. Better to use straight criminal law (or revolution) and inevitably let some heads of state escape justice than to indulge in the ex post facto political law represented by "crimes against humanity." DCF From cmefford at video.avwashington.com Fri Oct 30 01:06:48 1998 From: cmefford at video.avwashington.com (Chip Mefford) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:06:48 +0800 Subject: 4 Horseman not so bad.. In-Reply-To: <199810292139.WAA21195@replay.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 29 Oct 1998, Anonymous wrote: > At 07:52 AM 10/29/98 -0500, Chip Mefford wrote: > >> but some peope are scared of > >> drugs/paedophiles/terrorists etc, so thats the way in for the jackboots. > >> To oppose it we need to reduce fear. > > > >Thats the most interesting POV I've ever heard > >of in these discussions, seems like for the most part, > >we counter fear arguments with other fear arguments, > >Never saw this before. Bears more examination. > > > Right. The new Happy Net campaign. > > Druggies.. why, they're friendly enough to > be elected officials in such peaks of civilization as D.C. and L.A. > And the more successful recreational pharmaceutical merchants > are luxury-car and mobile telecomm early adopters! > > Pedophiles. Well, consider that Kennedy and his babysitter.. > You'd still vote for him, right? > > Terrorists. Well, shoot, everyone needs to express themselves > some times. One day you're a terrorist, the next you're boosting > the POTUS's ratings a few points with a handshake. > Well, Sorry, I don't mean to sound pollyanneish, thats not my point. Its just a point of view I had never heard expressed before, and I thought it was interesting. Fighting fear with more fear isn't working. Its just that simple, a different approach I think is worthy of investigation. thats all > > > > > > > > > > > > From nobody at replay.com Fri Oct 30 01:06:59 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:06:59 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199810292107.WAA18137@replay.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 excuse this bandwidth. me -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.0 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBNjiEBHUkEFXvH2ZAEQJ11wCdEEcGeWaOWjrNZ2e22a0Q5WtRMtIAmwQH JkSiA2UUrB6pahgHqA0dvIYc =8qn4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nobody at replay.com Fri Oct 30 01:11:49 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:11:49 +0800 Subject: 4 Horseman not so bad.. Message-ID: <199810292139.WAA21195@replay.com> At 07:52 AM 10/29/98 -0500, Chip Mefford wrote: >> but some peope are scared of >> drugs/paedophiles/terrorists etc, so thats the way in for the jackboots. >> To oppose it we need to reduce fear. > >Thats the most interesting POV I've ever heard >of in these discussions, seems like for the most part, >we counter fear arguments with other fear arguments, >Never saw this before. Bears more examination. Right. The new Happy Net campaign. Druggies.. why, they're friendly enough to be elected officials in such peaks of civilization as D.C. and L.A. And the more successful recreational pharmaceutical merchants are luxury-car and mobile telecomm early adopters! Pedophiles. Well, consider that Kennedy and his babysitter.. You'd still vote for him, right? Terrorists. Well, shoot, everyone needs to express themselves some times. One day you're a terrorist, the next you're boosting the POTUS's ratings a few points with a handshake. From redrook at yahoo.com Fri Oct 30 01:17:59 1998 From: redrook at yahoo.com (RedRook) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:17:59 +0800 Subject: don't use passwords as private keys (was Re: Using a password as a private key.) Message-ID: <19981029221752.26488.rocketmail@send102.yahoomail.com> You don't know you have to destroy a key file, until it is too late. Until then, it's just laying around waiting for some one to copy and crack. If you are paranoid enough to assume your opponent is going to torcher you to get your�signature password, you should assume that he already has your keyfile, and is willing to torcher you to get it's password. Thus coercion and dicitonary attacks are moot points. That is, if your password is good enough. So, what's worse; guarding a high entopy password with a low entropy password, or trying to memorize a high entropy password? Harv Adam Back wrote: > > > Some people have been talking about using passwords as private keys. > (By using the passphrase as seed material for regenerating the private > and public key). > > I don't think this is a good idea. > > You can't forget passphrases. You can destroy private key files. > > Therefore you open yourself up to coercion, and forward secrecy is not > possbile with these schemes. This means it is less secure. > > The other reason it is less secure others commented on: you provide an > open target for dictionary attacks. I wouldn't want to do that, even > with high entropy passphrase, it loses one important line of defense: > unavailability of private key file. > > Adam > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Fri Oct 30 01:21:50 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:21:50 +0800 Subject: don't use passwords as private keys (was Re: Using a password as a private key.) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981028012129.008334d0@idiom.com> Message-ID: <199810292120.VAA01702@server.eternity.org> Some people have been talking about using passwords as private keys. (By using the passphrase as seed material for regenerating the private and public key). I don't think this is a good idea. You can't forget passphrases. You can destroy private key files. Therefore you open yourself up to coercion, and forward secrecy is not possbile with these schemes. This means it is less secure. The other reason it is less secure others commented on: you provide an open target for dictionary attacks. I wouldn't want to do that, even with high entropy passphrase, it loses one important line of defense: unavailability of private key file. Adam From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Fri Oct 30 01:27:53 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:27:53 +0800 Subject: Random array (fwd) Message-ID: <199810291908.NAA20468@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 17:33:29 +0100 > From: Anonymous > Subject: Re: Random array > A couple responders have said there is no SWAP_TIMES > which would work. But I don't understand why the > following wouldn't work: > > First of all, make sure that x and y can't be equal, since > there's no point in swapping an element with itself. This > should add a negligible amount of time. > > x=getrand(); > do > y=getrand(); > while (x == y); > > Now, simply calculate how many SWAP_TIMES it would take for it > to be equally as likely that an element would not be touched as > it would to land in its original spot. > > (255/256)^(t*2) = 1/256 > > or > > t = ln(1/256)/(2*ln(255/256)) > > or > > 708.3955 > > > Another anonymous wrote: > > In the following snippet of pseudo-code, what should the value of > SWAP_TIMES be to make the array A[] random, assuming > that getrand() returned a truly random integer between > 0 and 255 > > A[256]; > > for(i=0;i x=getrand(); > y=getrand(); > swap(A[x],A[y]); > } > > Thanks > Actualy the optimal value is even easier to calculate. Given an initial array, A(m), and the desire to randomly swap the contents until there is sufficient entropy to pass the various statistical tests leaves us with: Given m initial element and we are swapping them two at a time then we need to execute at most m/2 swaps to randomize the array. So, the optimal SWAP_TIMES ends up being, in this case, 128. This of course doesn't touch on the new rule above about testing for x=y. In which case you could simply do it over again. Now given that there are m elements and the odds of selecting any given one is 1/n and the odds of selecting it twice at one time is 1/n^2. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From vznuri at netcom.com Fri Oct 30 01:36:51 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:36:51 +0800 Subject: IP: One Million Sign Petition to Kill IRS Code Message-ID: <199810300903.BAA19570@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: One Million Sign Petition to Kill IRS Code Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 19:47:24 -0600 To: believer at telepath.com Source: US Newswire http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/1028-112.txt NFIB: One Million Sign Petition to Kill IRS Code U.S. Newswire 28 Oct 12:00 NFIB: Petition to Kill IRS Code Hits Million Signature Mark To: National Desk Contact: Jim Weidman of the National Federation of Independent Business, 202-554-9000 SAN DIEGO, Calif., Oct. 28 /U.S. Newswire/ -- The National Federation of Independent Business (NFIB) today reached a milestone in its drive to abolish the federal tax code and replace it with a simpler and fairer system. At a downtown rally here today, NFIB President Jack Faris announced that the national petition drive calling on Congress to sunset the current IRS code had collected its one-millionth signature. Onlookers cheered as Faris placed the landmark signature atop an 18-wheeler stacked with scores of boxes bearing signed petitions collected during the group's year-long campaign. Labeling the petition drive "the most ambitious tax reform initiative since the Boston Tea Party," Faris expressed thanks to the more than 30,000 small-business owners who served as "volunteer captains, collecting signatures on Main Streets throughout the country in this unprecedented grassroots effort to restore reason to our tax system." The nation's leading small-business advocacy group, NFIB has 600,000 members nationwide. "We now have 1 million reasons for Congress and the president to do what's right for small business, and what's right for America," Faris said to a crowd of hundreds who gathered in front of an IRS office building for the tax reform event. "These first 1 million petitions will serve as the symbol as well as the fuel that keeps this effort to abolish the code going strong. We won't give up!" Faris also added that "NFIB will continue to gather petitions and grassroots support, because Washington sees the light when they feel the heat from Main Street." Faris outlined his group's plan for action in the 106th Congress: "NFIB will continue to stand up for small business on this issue and others. We will be a catalyst, urging Congress to sunset the IRS code as the first step toward responsible tax reform, so that the new century may begin under transition to a new tax system." Noting that the nation's economy is strong, and economic optimism is high, Faris said, "This is the right time for Congress and the president to answer the call from grassroots America and replace our broken tax code. To ignore that call -- at a time when we are able to answer it -- would be irresponsible. One million signatures can't be ignored." The San Diego rally was the latest event in NFIB's ongoing "Campaign for Responsible Tax Reform," which was kicked off one year ago in Independence, Mo. Today's event was simulcast live on the Roger Hedgecock Show on KSDO-AM (1130) and KOGO-AM (600). ----- For a copy of NFIB's Seven Steps to Responsible Tax Reform, or any other materials related to the campaign, visit NFIB's special Web site at www.not4IRS.org. -0- /U.S. Newswire 202-347-2770/ 10/28 12:00 Copyright 1998, U.S. Newswire ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Fri Oct 30 01:48:00 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:48:00 +0800 Subject: IP: FCC Proposes Location Tracking for Wireless Phones Message-ID: <199810300903.BAA19560@netcom13.netcom.com> From: Ari Schwartz Subject: IP: FCC Proposes Location Tracking for Wireless Phones Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:12:21 -0500 (EST) To: policy-posts at cdt.org The Center for Democracy and Technology /____/ Volume 4, Number 27 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- A briefing on public policy issues affecting civil liberties online ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CDT POLICY POST Volume 4, Number 27 October 28, 1998 CONTENTS: (1) FCC Proposes Location Tracking for Wireless Phones (2) Public Comment Sought - CDT Launches Citizen Action Site (3) FCC Opens Inquiry into Wiretapping in Packet Networks (4) Other Surveillance Features (5) Subscription Information (6) About CDT ** This document may be redistributed freely with this banner intact ** Excerpts may be re-posted with permission of _____________________________________________________________________________ (1) FCC PROPOSES LOCATION TRACKING FOR WIRELESS PHONES Rejecting privacy arguments, the Federal Communications Commission on October 22 proposed turning wireless phones into location tracking devices. Ruling under the Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act of 1994 (CALEA), the Commission proposed requiring cellular and other wireless phone companies to track the location of their customers, identifying the cell site at the beginning and end of every call. This decision, if finalized, would allow the FBI to get out of the privacy deal it struck in 1994 when CALEA was adopted. At the time, the FBI said that location information was not required by CALEA, and the Congressional intent is 100% clear on the point. For background on CALEA and the FCC's proceeding, see CDT's digital telephony page: http://www.cdt.org/digi_tele/ _____________________________________________________________________________ (2) PUBLIC COMMENT SOUGHT - A CHANCE TO TELL THE FCC THAT CELL PHONE TRACKING IS NOT ACCEPTABLE! The FCC decision on cell phone tracking is only a tentative decision, known as a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking. The Commission is seeking public comment on its proposal. The public comment period has not been set, but could be between 30 and 60 days. Until now, the discussion on this issue has been held by policy-makers in Washington, but this decision will affect the entire nation. Since this will likely be the only chance for those outside the beltway to weigh in with a comment, CDT urges citizens to let their voice be heard. CDT has established a special "Action" page to make it easy for citizens to contact the FCC and file comments opposing the location tracking proposal: http://www.cdt.org/action/filing.html _____________________________________________________________________________ (3) FCC LAUNCHES INQUIRY INTO WIRETAPPING IN PACKET NETWORKS On a separate issue in the same CALEA proceeding, the Commission agreed with CDT and other privacy advocates. The FCC said that industry's initial plan for conducting surveillance in so-called "packet" networks was insufficient, and the Commission asked for further technical and legal comment. Packet networks break communications up into many small packets, each one consisting of a segment of content with addressing information attached to rout it to its intended destination. Under the industry's proposal, carriers could have provided to the government a person's entire packet stream, including both routing information and content, even when the government did not have the authority to intercept the content of the communications. CDT argued that the carriers should be required to separate addressing information from the content of communications and only give the government what it was authorized to intercept. The Commission decided that it needed to launch a technical inquiry. This could determine the future of surveillance. The question is whether carriers have an obligation to protect the privacy of communications the government is not authorized to intercept. For CDT's discussion of the packet issue, see: http://www.cdt.org/digi_tele/980426_fcc_calea.html#ivc _____________________________________________________________________________ (4) OTHER SURVEILLANCE FEATURES PROPOSED On other items sought by the FBI, the Commission tentatively decided that carriers should be required to continue tapping parties on a conference call after the subject of the court order has dropped off the call, and to extract dialed number information from the content stream and provide it to the government under a minimal standard. In all, the Commission tentatively accepted five out of nine new surveillance capabilities sought by the FBI. As of today, only a sumamry of the Commission's decision, not the full NPRM, was not publicly available. CDT will make the full text of the NPRM available on-line as soon as it becomes public. ____________________________________________________________________________ ____ (5) SUBSCRIPTION INFORMATION Be sure you are up to date on the latest public policy issues affecting civil liberties online and how they will affect you! Subscribe to the CDT Policy Post news distribution list. CDT Policy Posts, the regular news publication of the Center For Democracy and Technology, are received by Internet users, industry leaders, policymakers and activists, and have become the leading source for information about critical free speech and privacy issues affecting the Internet and other interactive communications media. To subscribe to CDT's Policy Post list, send mail to majordomo at cdt.org In the BODY of the message (leave the SUBJECT LINE BLANK), type subscribe policy-posts If you ever wish to remove yourself from the list, send mail to the above address with NOTHING IN THE SUBJECT LINE AND a BODY TEXT of: unsubscribe policy-posts ____________________________________________________________________________ ____ (6) ABOUT THE CENTER FOR DEMOCRACY AND TECHNOLOGY/CONTACTING US The Center for Democracy and Technology is a non-profit public interest organization based in Washington, DC. The Center's mission is to develop and advocate public policies that advance democratic values and constitutional civil liberties in new computer and communications technologies. Contacting us: General information: info at cdt.org World Wide Web: http://www.cdt.org/ Snail Mail: The Center for Democracy and Technology 1634 Eye Street NW * Suite 1100 * Washington, DC 20006 (v) +1.202.637.9800 * (f) +1.202.637.0968 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End Policy Post 4.27 10/28/98 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------ Ari Schwartz Policy Analyst Center for Democracy and Technology 1634 Eye Street NW, Suite 1100 Washington, DC 20006 202 637 9800 fax 202 637 0968 ari at cdt.org http://www.cdt.org ------------------------------------ **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Fri Oct 30 03:22:55 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 19:22:55 +0800 Subject: discrete log attack on 1st use of Kong signature? (Re: Using a password as a private key.) In-Reply-To: <199810291821.TAA03804@replay.com> Message-ID: <199810301010.KAA04282@server.eternity.org> Anonymous writes: > Bill Stewart writes: > > Kong takes an interesting approach to key certification and signatures - > > it doesn't use the "True Name" model with a Certificate Authority Trusted > > Third Party Subject To Many Government Regulations certifying that the > > person who has this key has that True Name. Instead, you sign messages, > > and it keeps a database of signed messages from peop le, and you can > > compare a message you have with a message you've received previously to > > see if it's signed by the same key, and you can send encrypted messages > > to the person who sent you a previous message. > > What happens if you create another key which signs an existing message, > as was illustrated here recently in the case of Toto's key. Can you > convince Kong that you are the same person who sent the earlier message? Depends if the discrete log attack anonymous used works over elliptic curves, or if an analogous attack can be mounted on the elliptic curve signature scheme James is using. Anonymous wrote on his attack: : N is the product of two primes, but each p-1 has about 16 small : prime factors (about 25-35 bits) to allow calculating the discrete : log efficiently. With this choice of primes it took about three : hours to run the discrete log. in otherwords n is 1024 bit, p and q 512 bit, p1..p16, q1..q16 are about 25-35 bits each: n = p x q p-1 = p1 x p2 x .... x p16 q-1 = q1 x q2 x .... x q16 then he can take discrete logs modulo n. With this given signature s on message m with unpublished public key, he can compute a public and private exponent e, d which could have signed message m: s = m ^ d mod n and m = s ^ e mod n so compute discrete log of m mod n in base s to compute an e. Then compute a d using the normal: e.d = 1 mod (p-1)(q-1) If something like this worked on Kong's signatures, you would need two signatures, or a signature on a message together with a signed public key. Does Kong use self signed public keys? Adam From stuffed at stuffed.net Fri Oct 30 19:34:28 1998 From: stuffed at stuffed.net (STUFFED FRI OCT 30) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 19:34:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY! 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Full instructions on unsubscribing are in every issue of Eureka! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- From jya at pipeline.com Fri Oct 30 05:04:19 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 21:04:19 +0800 Subject: Bic-Assassins Convicted Message-ID: <199810301210.HAA10534@camel14.mindspring.com> CNN http://www.cnn.com/US/9810/30/weapons.case.ap/ Two men convicted in biological weapons case October 30, 1998 Web posted at: 3:10 a.m. EST (0810 GMT) BROWNSVILLE, Texas (AP) -- Two men accused of scheming to attack President Clinton and others with cigarette lighters equipped with poison-coated cactus needles were convicted of sending threatening e-mail. Johnie Wise, 72, and Jack Abbott Grebe, 43, were convicted Thursday of two counts of sending threatening e-mails -- one message to the Internal Revenue Service and one to the Drug Enforcement Agency. Grebe and Wise were acquitted on one count each of conspiracy to use weapons of mass destruction count and five counts each of sending threatening messages -- to President Clinton, U.S. Customs, the FBI, the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms, and the Secret Service. They could get life in prison at their Jan. 29 sentencing. Prosecutors said Wise schemed to modify a cigarette lighter so it would shoot cactus needles coated with toxins such as rabies, botulism, anthrax or HIV. Defense attorneys called idea 'silly' Among the men's alleged targets: Clinton, the U.S. and Texas attorneys general, and FBI Director Louis Freeh. Defense attorneys called the idea "silly" and "cockamamie." There was never any evidence that the accused possessed biological weapons or tried to develop a deadly lighter. The e-mailed threats were vaguely worded and did not discuss the lighter or cactus thorns. Under federal law, however, the threats were enough for a conviction and no biological weapons were needed, prosecutors said. The men would have carried out their plan to hurt government employees and their families if they hadn't been arrested, Assistant U.S. Attorney Mervyn Mosbacker said. Wise and Grebe were accused of concocting the plan to threaten government officials with e-mails. One e-mail, sent June 12, was titled "Declaration of War" and a second one, sent June 26, said government workers had been "targeted for destruction by revenge." A third defendant, Oliver Dean Emigh, 63, was acquitted on all counts. He was accused of writing the June 12 message, but the charges against the men stemmed from the June 26 e-mail. -- Thanks to D. From Richard.Bragg at ssa.co.uk Fri Oct 30 05:13:46 1998 From: Richard.Bragg at ssa.co.uk (Richard.Bragg at ssa.co.uk) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 21:13:46 +0800 Subject: Coersion Re: don't use passwords as private keys (was Re: Using a password as a private key.) Message-ID: <802566AD.00420227.00@seunt002e.ssa.co.uk> >From information given by a security consultant teaching a course I attended : The easiest way to get a password from someone is to ask them. Many people will tell you if you look official, friendly etc Torture is less likely to work as people don't like to have to do something. They are often willing to "volenteer" information as long as they still appear to be in control. From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Fri Oct 30 08:13:41 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 00:13:41 +0800 Subject: don't use passwords as private keys (was Re: Using a password as a private key.) In-Reply-To: <19981029221752.26488.rocketmail@send102.yahoomail.com> Message-ID: <199810301443.OAA06479@server.eternity.org> Harv "RedRook" (is that Harvey Rook?) writes: > You don't know you have to destroy a key file, until it is too late. Sooo. What does this imply you should do? Destroy your key file on a regular basis :-) eg. this key: pub 2048/2E17753D 1998/10/04 Adam Back (FS key, Oct 98) will be destroyed tomorrow ("FS" = Forward Secrecy), the key is my forward secret key for October. And this one was destroyed at the end of last month: pub 2048/xxxxxxxx 1998/09/01 Adam Back (FS key, Nov 98) etc. This means that if someone were (say like GCHQ or ECHELON) were to be archiving my email, and later develop an interest in reading it, they would be out of luck. And I wouldn't be able to help them if I wanted to. > Until then, it's just laying around waiting for some one to copy and > crack. If you are paranoid enough to assume your opponent is going to > torcher you to get your signature password, you should assume that he > already has your keyfile, and is willing to torcher you to get it's > password. Forward secrecy means that only the current key file is vulnerable. > Thus coercion and dicitonary attacks are moot points. That is, if your > password is good enough. Your passphrase might not be as secure as you think it is. The sound of you typing it whilst on the phone, or the RF noise emitted by the keyboard controller chip may completely or partially leak it. Adam From insight at sprynet.com Fri Oct 30 08:33:20 1998 From: insight at sprynet.com (insight at sprynet.com) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 00:33:20 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199810301545.HAA28403@cyberpass.net> Oct.30th,1998 Y2K Solution! 8 Pine Circle Dr., Silicon Valley, Calif. OTC Company "TCFG" 21 st. Century Frontier Group has through several members of their administrative research department leaked vital information about their companies efforts. Everyone was tight lipped and interviews were refused, and through un-named sources we have learned that the technology and software solution are in the process of being patented! In over 1640 trials, using various data systems the use of the new technology and software solved the Y2K problem 100% of the time. This small publicly traded company "TCFG" which is just 3 years old is through various sources now negotiating with the "Big Boys"! "TCFG" the letters to look for! From nobody at remailer.ch Fri Oct 30 08:49:11 1998 From: nobody at remailer.ch (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 00:49:11 +0800 Subject: Airline id Message-ID: <19981030163553.6307.qmail@hades.rpini.com> > Naaah, you pull rail-spikes to get trains, no big ba-da-boom required. Yow! So buying a crowbar gets you thrown in the can for conspiracy to possess terrorist weapons of mass destruction! From melliott at ncsa.uiuc.edu Fri Oct 30 08:49:18 1998 From: melliott at ncsa.uiuc.edu (Matt Elliott) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 00:49:18 +0800 Subject: William H. Gates III In-Reply-To: <199810300528.AAA20342@panix7.panix.com> Message-ID: At 12:28 AM -0500 10/30/98, Information Security wrote: >Leading digits "539"...what state was he born in? > And just to clear up some silly misconception people have. SSN numbers are not indicative of where someone was born. Only where they applied for a SSN number. Matt From nobody at replay.com Fri Oct 30 09:29:26 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 01:29:26 +0800 Subject: 4 Horseman not so bad.. Message-ID: <199810301647.RAA06172@replay.com> At 05:06 PM 10/29/98 -0500, Chip Mefford wrote: >On Thu, 29 Oct 1998, Anonymous wrote: >> At 07:52 AM 10/29/98 -0500, Chip Mefford wrote: >> >> but some peope are scared of >> >> drugs/paedophiles/terrorists etc, so thats the way in for the jackboots. >> >> To oppose it we need to reduce fear. >> Right. The new Happy Net campaign. >Well, > >Sorry, I don't mean to sound pollyanneish, thats not my point. >Its just a point of view I had never heard expressed before, and >I thought it was interesting. > >Fighting fear with more fear isn't working. >Its just that simple, a different approach >I think is worthy of investigation. > Your observation is in fact correct. The fear must be shown to be *exaggerated* for the benefit of the fearmongers. The intrusion must be shown to be not just intruding on "them" but on "us". (Europe's recent interest in Echelon may be an example of the latter.) Sheeple will *eventually* learn (again) that nasty people will always do nasty things with the technology du jour, and mostly the police just mop up afterwards. (If it isn't the State doing the nasty things in the first place.) Of course, we might have an intervening dark ages for a millenia or two, but in the long run, you get a clue or go extinct. You don't ban something as basic as metal or encryption because some people do bad things with it. And you don't depend on laws to secure privacy. In the meantime, morons whine for State control of metal, while barbarians are destroying the town's wooden walls with metal rams, and protective metal walls aren't being deployed because the townies fear that the bad townies will abuse metal. "Freedom of choice is what you have, freedom from choice is what you want" -Devo "Those that would trade liberty for security should be shot" -Kite Sparko From jim at acm.org Fri Oct 30 09:41:33 1998 From: jim at acm.org (Jim Gillogly) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 01:41:33 +0800 Subject: Random array (fwd) Message-ID: <3639EF00.5B20F3A0@acm.org> I said: >> One could modify Greg's suggestion slightly by attaching an auxiliary >> array of 256 random numbers to each of the members of the original >> array and then using the most efficient handy sort algorithm to sort >> those random numbers, dragging along their associated original array >> elements. This way it doesn't have a chance to interfere with the >> operation of the sorting algorithm, at the cost of an extra array. Jim Choate responded: > If I understand the process. Each array would cycle through in parallel > sorting 2 elements of each array. Once that was finished we'd then sort the > arrays themselves according to some process. From your description it seems > to imply that you're going to sort the 1st element descending at that point. > This in effect mis-orders each array after every sort. > > This sort of system is an IFS and could lead to determinism (ie a cycle of > sort patterns that repeat endlessly) or chaos (ie a pattern that doesn't > repeat). It in and of itself doesn't guarantee any randomness merely a > continously munged sort. I expressed myself badly. Steve Gibbons posted a message to Coderpunks expressing more clearly what I had in mind: Fill up the high bits of your N words with random numbers and the low bits with an index from 0 to N-1. Sort the array, then mask off the high bits. If the random numbers were unique, you are left with a randomly shuffled array. -- Jim Gillogly Trewesday, 9 Blotmath S.R. 1998, 16:48 12.19.5.11.12, 10 Eb 5 Zac, Seventh Lord of Night From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Fri Oct 30 10:10:47 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 02:10:47 +0800 Subject: Random array (fwd) Message-ID: <199810301748.LAA25557@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 08:53:20 -0800 > From: Jim Gillogly > Subject: Re: Random array (fwd) > Jim Choate responded: > > If I understand the process. Each array would cycle through in parallel > > sorting 2 elements of each array. Once that was finished we'd then sort the > > arrays themselves according to some process. From your description it seems > > to imply that you're going to sort the 1st element descending at that point. > > This in effect mis-orders each array after every sort. > > > > This sort of system is an IFS and could lead to determinism (ie a cycle of > > sort patterns that repeat endlessly) or chaos (ie a pattern that doesn't > > repeat). It in and of itself doesn't guarantee any randomness merely a > > continously munged sort. > > I expressed myself badly. Steve Gibbons posted a message > to Coderpunks expressing more clearly what I had in mind: > Fill up the high bits of your N words with random numbers and > the low bits with an index from 0 to N-1. Sort the array, then > mask off the high bits. If the random numbers were unique, you > are left with a randomly shuffled array. Ah, ok I think I have it..... So we start out with N words (2 bytes): 0 1 2 ... n-2 n-1 n * * * * * * ^ 15...8 7...0 rng ind So the ordering of bits 8-15 moves the originaly ordered indexes to positions correlated to relative magnitude of the rng part. That certainly looks like it'd work. Thanks for the clarification. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From stuffed at stuffed.net Sat Oct 31 02:14:43 1998 From: stuffed at stuffed.net (STUFFED SAT OCT 31) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 02:14:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY! 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Full instructions on unsubscribing are in every issue of Eureka! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- From kitties at best.com Fri Oct 30 10:55:20 1998 From: kitties at best.com (Yardena Arar + Christian Goetze) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 02:55:20 +0800 Subject: Random array (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810301748.LAA25557@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: And what's so bad about doing this: for (i=0; i < n-1; i++) { swap_positions(array, i, i+rand(n-i)); } which populates the array by randomly choosing the next element? It all comes down to knowing how good "rand()" is, anyway... On Fri, 30 Oct 1998, Jim Choate wrote: > > Forwarded message: > > > Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 08:53:20 -0800 > > From: Jim Gillogly > > Subject: Re: Random array (fwd) > > > Jim Choate responded: > > > If I understand the process. Each array would cycle through in parallel > > > sorting 2 elements of each array. Once that was finished we'd then sort the > > > arrays themselves according to some process. From your description it seems > > > to imply that you're going to sort the 1st element descending at that point. > > > This in effect mis-orders each array after every sort. > > > > > > This sort of system is an IFS and could lead to determinism (ie a cycle of > > > sort patterns that repeat endlessly) or chaos (ie a pattern that doesn't > > > repeat). It in and of itself doesn't guarantee any randomness merely a > > > continously munged sort. > > > > I expressed myself badly. Steve Gibbons posted a message > > to Coderpunks expressing more clearly what I had in mind: > > Fill up the high bits of your N words with random numbers and > > the low bits with an index from 0 to N-1. Sort the array, then > > mask off the high bits. If the random numbers were unique, you > > are left with a randomly shuffled array. > > Ah, ok I think I have it..... > > So we start out with N words (2 bytes): > > 0 1 2 ... n-2 n-1 n > * * * * * * > > ^ > 15...8 7...0 > rng ind > > So the ordering of bits 8-15 moves the originaly ordered indexes to > positions correlated to relative magnitude of the rng part. > > That certainly looks like it'd work. > > Thanks for the clarification. > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. > > Confucius > > The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate > Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com > www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 > -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From nobody at replay.com Fri Oct 30 11:17:21 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 03:17:21 +0800 Subject: IP: FCC Proposes Location Tracking for Wireless Phones Message-ID: <199810301700.SAA07910@replay.com> At 01:03 AM 10/30/98 -0800, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote: >(2) PUBLIC COMMENT SOUGHT - A CHANCE TO TELL THE FCC THAT CELL PHONE >TRACKING IS NOT ACCEPTABLE! > >CDT has established a special "Action" page to make it easy for citizens to >contact the FCC and file comments opposing the location tracking proposal: >http://www.cdt.org/action/filing.html Be sure to mention ECHELON to get it into the US public eye. From iang at cs.berkeley.edu Fri Oct 30 11:18:33 1998 From: iang at cs.berkeley.edu (Ian Goldberg) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 03:18:33 +0800 Subject: Shuffling (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810291716.LAA19879@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <71d1ik$b4o$1@abraham.cs.berkeley.edu> In article <199810291716.LAA19879 at einstein.ssz.com>, Jim Choate wrote: >Forwarded message: > >> From: iang at cs.berkeley.edu (Ian Goldberg) >> Subject: Re: Shuffling (fwd) >> Date: 29 Oct 1998 16:16:41 GMT > >> The "7 times" theorem uses the following model of a shuffle: >> >> o The deck is cut into two parts, with the number of cards in each piece >> binomially distributed (with mean 26, of course). > >> o The resulting deck is then achieved by having cards fall from one or the >> other of the two parts; a card will fall from one of the parts with >> probability proportional to the number of cards remaining in the part. > >The only problem I see with this model, re real card decks, is that the >probability for a given card to fall to the top of the shuffled pile isn't >related in any way to the number of cards in either stack in a real-world >shuffle. Yup. "It's only a model." -- Monty Python and the Holy Grail >It also doesn't address the problem of 'clumping' where a group of cards (ie >royal flush) stay together through the shuffling. This is the reason that >real dealers try for a 1-for-1 shuffle each time. It actually _does_ address the normal, statistical clumping that goes on. It _doesn't_ address clumping that occurs because, say, you were playing poker while eating a peanut butter sandwich. :-) - Ian From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Fri Oct 30 11:52:31 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 03:52:31 +0800 Subject: Shuffling (fwd) Message-ID: <199810301934.NAA26157@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: iang at cs.berkeley.edu (Ian Goldberg) > Subject: Re: Shuffling (fwd) > Date: 30 Oct 1998 18:46:44 GMT > >> o The resulting deck is then achieved by having cards fall from one or the > >> other of the two parts; a card will fall from one of the parts with > >> probability proportional to the number of cards remaining in the part. > >It also doesn't address the problem of 'clumping' where a group of cards (ie > >royal flush) stay together through the shuffling. This is the reason that > >real dealers try for a 1-for-1 shuffle each time. > > It actually _does_ address the normal, statistical clumping that goes on. > It _doesn't_ address clumping that occurs because, say, you were playing > poker while eating a peanut butter sandwich. :-) What I was refering to was that let's say we've just finished playing a hand of cards and the next dealer collects them from each player and stacks them up prior to shuffling. Since the selection of cards is related to the thickness of the two half-decks (and not a strict 1-to-1) it is reasonable to expect an above average number of such shuffles (ones with grossly uneven card counts, exactly what that would be I don't know), now as a player I'm going to know about this bias and can use it to my advantage. I admit it probably won't change the odds much but sometimes a few hundreths over a long time can make a difference. It seems to me the next question that needs asking is: Given the probability model we've discussed what does the difference in odds relating to clumping show in relation to uneven deck splitting. If the deck is split even (26:26) v 27:25 v 28:24 v etc. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From petro at playboy.com Fri Oct 30 11:52:41 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 03:52:41 +0800 Subject: FW: rules of engagement (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810220438.XAA06083@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: I'm still about 8 days behind, so excuse the question: At 11:38 PM -0500 10/21/98, Jim Choate wrote: >Forwarded message: >> From: Carlos Macedo Gomes > >> discussing at that meeting with members of EF Texas. BTW: Whatever >> happended to the Classified Ad project?? >It was going along fine until I made the mistake of asking when.... >I'd offered a couple of dates, nobody ever commented on them. >I can still cover Austin, Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Fort Worth, El Paso. >A single paper in each city. > >I'd say do it like Thanksgiving Day or Christmas. I need 1 months warning. > >It might be kind of cool to put regular ads in with various comments like the >1st Amendment, or questions regarding civil liberties, famous quotes, etc. >Just sign it, I am not sure, but is this an idea to put the 3 line RSA Perl implementation in the classified adds? (as near as I could gather trying to read ahead) If not, what is it? -- "To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather na�ve, and certainly unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust" http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro at playboy.com From jim at acm.org Fri Oct 30 11:57:15 1998 From: jim at acm.org (Jim Gillogly) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 03:57:15 +0800 Subject: Random array (fwd) Message-ID: <363A10F2.D5AABA72@acm.org> > And what's so bad about doing this: > > for (i=0; i < n-1; i++) { > swap_positions(array, i, i+rand(n-i)); > } > > which populates the array by randomly choosing the next element? That one's fine, and is equivalent to Knuth's Algorithm P, except that it does two more additions per iteration. -- Jim Gillogly Trewesday, 9 Blotmath S.R. 1998, 19:16 12.19.5.11.12, 10 Eb 5 Zac, Seventh Lord of Night From petro at playboy.com Fri Oct 30 12:10:15 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 04:10:15 +0800 Subject: dbts: The Economic Cause of Privacy In-Reply-To: <199810221225.OAA21798@replay.com> Message-ID: At 7:25 AM -0500 10/22/98, Anonymous wrote: >>Remember, the reason we have no financial privacy these days is because we >>have book-entry settlement, which relies on biometric identity, known >>physical >>location, and the force of a nation state as the ultimate "error-handler" to >>prevent repudiation in the transaction protocol. >Yes, and cars break down because there are service shops. >Utter nonsense. >There is no financial privacy because because those who would like such thing >have less power (hired guns) than those who would not like it. And those with >controlling interests in modern societies do not like it because control would >be lost, and population harvesting (aka taxing) would have to be radically >changed, and that is expensive. The system is self-supporting. > >Idea that somehow smart algorithms will bring financial privacy is a good >starting >point for cryptoaddict's wet dream, but in reality has the same chance of >success as survival rate of armed citizens against the government. Zero. Afghanistan The french Revolution The "Revolutionary War" Several Countries in Eastern Europe. > >Use of government-controlled, issued and supervised payment >methods/instruments >is in place because it is proscribed, not because "money/checks, etc. exist". ^^^^^^^^^^ Prescribed. Proscribed means outlawed. >Therefore constructing computer-assisted anon payment schemes "because it is >cheaper that way" is pointless. Money is not there to make your life easier. >Money exists so that you can be taxed and conditioned to desired behaviour at >minimal cost. Money exists because it is easier to carry paper and coins than to carry chickens. Taxes can occur without money. -- "To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather na�ve, and certainly unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust" http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro at playboy.com From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Fri Oct 30 12:12:53 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 04:12:53 +0800 Subject: FW: rules of engagement (fwd) Message-ID: <199810301955.NAA26318@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 13:06:53 -0500 > From: Petro > Subject: Re: FW: rules of engagement (fwd) > I'm still about 8 days behind, so excuse the question: No. (;) > >> discussing at that meeting with members of EF Texas. BTW: Whatever > >> happended to the Classified Ad project?? > >I can still cover Austin, Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Fort Worth, El Paso= > I am not sure, but is this an idea to put the 3 line RSA Perl > implementation in the classified adds? (as near as I could gather trying to > read ahead) If not, what is it? That is correct, it is the 3-line RSA proposal. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody at replay.com Fri Oct 30 12:50:45 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 04:50:45 +0800 Subject: Texans Face Life For E-Mail Threats Message-ID: <199810302006.VAA27347@replay.com> Yahoo! News Texas Headlines Friday October 30 5:21 AM EDT Texans Face Life For E-Mail Threats - (BROWNSVILLE) -- A Brownsville jury has returned a split verdict in the trial of three alleged ``Republic of Texas'' members accused of making terrorist threats. Forty-three-year-old Jack Grebe (GREEB) and 72-year-old Johnie Wise were convicted for sending electronic e-mail to President Clinton and several other federal officials... warning they were ``targeted for revenge''. Sixty-three-year-old Oliver Emigh (EM-EE) was acquitted of all charges. The jury also found the trio NOT GUILTY of plotting to use modified cigarette lighters to fire cactus needles... tipped with a biological poison. Grebe and Wise will be sentenced in January and face a maximum penalty of life imprisonment. From iang at cs.berkeley.edu Fri Oct 30 12:56:02 1998 From: iang at cs.berkeley.edu (Ian Goldberg) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 04:56:02 +0800 Subject: Shuffling (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199810301934.NAA26157@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <71d757$bub$1@abraham.cs.berkeley.edu> In article <199810301934.NAA26157 at einstein.ssz.com>, Jim Choate wrote: >Forwarded message: > >> From: iang at cs.berkeley.edu (Ian Goldberg) >> Subject: Re: Shuffling (fwd) >> Date: 30 Oct 1998 18:46:44 GMT > >> >> o The resulting deck is then achieved by having cards fall from one or the >> >> other of the two parts; a card will fall from one of the parts with >> >> probability proportional to the number of cards remaining in the part. > >> >It also doesn't address the problem of 'clumping' where a group of cards (ie >> >royal flush) stay together through the shuffling. This is the reason that >> >real dealers try for a 1-for-1 shuffle each time. >> >> It actually _does_ address the normal, statistical clumping that goes on. >> It _doesn't_ address clumping that occurs because, say, you were playing >> poker while eating a peanut butter sandwich. :-) > >What I was refering to was that let's say we've just finished playing a hand >of cards and the next dealer collects them from each player and stacks them >up prior to shuffling. Since the selection of cards is related to the >thickness of the two half-decks (and not a strict 1-to-1) it is reasonable >to expect an above average number of such shuffles (ones with grossly uneven >card counts, exactly what that would be I don't know), now as a player I'm >going to know about this bias and can use it to my advantage. I admit it >probably won't change the odds much but sometimes a few hundreths over a >long time can make a difference. That's true. That's why you need to do it seven times, in order to properly randomize the deck. It's for exactly this reason that players at computer-dealt bridge tournaments complain about "flat" distributions. When they play in "real life", people usually don't shuffle seven times, and the resulting suit distributions end up skewed ("ghoulies" is the extreme case of this). The players are used to this, though, and when they get actual random hands, the distributions are much flatter. - Ian From jya at pipeline.com Fri Oct 30 12:59:27 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 04:59:27 +0800 Subject: More on Bic-Assassins In-Reply-To: <199810301955.NAA26318@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199810302027.PAA01972@dewdrop2.mindspring.com> Jim Choate: What's the buzz in TX about the Bic-Assassins? I spoke to a reporter at the Brownsville Herald who's been covering the case and she says that local folks think the men were entrapped by the government with a sting. Her story today and others previously at: http://www.brownsvilleherald.com She sent me a copy of the indictment which cites a confidential "source" which set up the E-mail system used to send threats to officials (the fink promised the messages could not be traced - ouch!). The poor saps were videotaped throughout their planning and executing the threats, thanks to the informant's arrangements: http://jya.com/wge072198.htm The informant is named in the court docket (which shows that the defendants' attorneys put up a fierce fight using First Amendment and other defenses discussed here in regard to CJ): http://jya.com/usa-v-wise.htm The judge's rulings favored the government consistently, though. BTW, the prosecutor says that it made no difference that nothing was ever done to act on the threats, no Bic-lighter or bio-weapon was ever made, that it was enough under the law for the threat to have been made. "Justice was done," he said of the conviction. From nobody at replay.com Fri Oct 30 13:29:52 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 05:29:52 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199810302056.VAA31759@replay.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 From: Petro [SMTP:petro at playboy.com] Sent: Friday, October 30, 1998 12:07 PM To: cypherpunks at einstein.ssz.com Subject: Re: FW: rules of engagement (fwd) I am not sure, but is this an idea to put the 3 line RSA Perl implementation in the classified adds? (as near as I could gather trying to read ahead) If not, what is it? Yes. The reference was to the 3 line RSA Perl implementation in ads. Didn't seem to get as an enthusiastic response as back in late summer. me. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.0 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBNjnS1nUkEFXvH2ZAEQIYewCfbUfDHUF51IjAl1u2q1wC9JcWS7gAn325 V8c9VPuwEZmebGX2s9tJqkap =CD5B -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nobody at replay.com Fri Oct 30 13:33:55 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 05:33:55 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199810302100.WAA32146@replay.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 testing... me -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.0 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBNjnTTXUkEFXvH2ZAEQLfaACfdpJivYj4Cz8BQWSBn+bcNjkfKTsAoIpF s7LLMoFoUJqld5+r/C+mJQly =LzNe -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From petro at playboy.com Fri Oct 30 14:46:38 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 06:46:38 +0800 Subject: Word choice In-Reply-To: <199810241607.SAA00878@replay.com> Message-ID: At 11:07 AM -0500 10/24/98, Anonymous wrote: >>Bee in the bonnet: A few days before CJ's arrest warrant was issued >>the DoJ put out a study on the "Shared Traits of Potential Assassins:" > >>The traits: > > * To achieve notoriety or fame. > * To bring attention to a personal or public problem. > * To avenge a perceived wrong; to retaliate for a perceived injury. > * To end personal pain; to be removed from society; to be killed. > * To save the country or the world; to fix a world problem. > * To develop a special relationship with the target. > * To make money. > * To bring about political change. > >How does this differ from the motives of your ordinary politician? > Almost no politician (there are way too many i's in that word) is there "To end personal pain; to be removed from society; to be killed." >Post-revolution, will there be caliber limitations when hunting them? -- "To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather na�ve, and certainly unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust" http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro at playboy.com From athena at cyberpass.net Fri Oct 30 14:57:10 1998 From: athena at cyberpass.net (Pallas Anonymous Remailer) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 06:57:10 +0800 Subject: Orwell Message-ID: Some US ISP's were seized in a cyberporn bust. Dreamscape's statement at: http://www.dreamscape.com/dream98/statement.htm Buffnet's at: http://www.buffnet.com/ag/ Vacco's at: http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/oct98/oct28_98.html All three worth reading. This could be a big story. The theory against the ISPs (not that they've been charged with a crime) is that they knowingly carried the newsgroups: alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.pre-teen alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.early-teen This has broader application -- alt.binaries.warez.*, alt.binaries.sounds.mp3, etc. Is any ISP which carries suspect newsgroups at risk of having its equiptment seized, and who draws up the blacklist of newsgroups? Or worse, is there no public blacklist at all -- just the hovering fear of an up-for-reelection AG swooping down. And when do naughty pictures start showing up in alt.fan.disney? And what's the AG's move then? From vznuri at netcom.com Fri Oct 30 17:43:29 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 09:43:29 +0800 Subject: IP: Thousands to Demand Removal of Clinton at 'March for Justice' -Oct 31 Message-ID: <199810310113.RAA00492@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Thousands to Demand Removal of Clinton at 'March for Justice' -Oct 31 Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 10:43:26 -0600 To: believer at telepath.com Source: US Newswire http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/1029-136.txt Thousands to Attend 'March for Justice' Rally Oct. 31 U.S. Newswire 29 Oct 19:56 Thousands to Demand Removal of Clinton from Office at Oct. 31 'March for Justice' Rally To: Assignment Desk, Daybook Editor Contact: Connie Hair or Carla Michele, 202-965-2700 (Oct. 29-Nov. 1), or 202-256-5042 (on-site cellular) News Advisory: People from across the United States will travel to Washington, D. C., to exercise their Constitutional right of assembly to petition their elected representatives to remove President Clinton from office at a massive rally being held this Saturday, Oct. 31 on the Washington Mall. The event, which is being organized by Web site www.FreeRepublic.com, will bring together citizens -- both Democrats and Republicans -- from all walks of life who are concerned about the corruption of the Office of the Presidency by Bill Clinton. Speakers for the event include both people who have been thrust into the limelight by the White House scandals as well as a number of prominent national leaders. Heading the line-up will be Ambassador Alan Keyes and Rep. Bob Barr (R-Ga.). What: "March for Justice" rally on Washington Monument When: Saturday, Oct. 31, noon-6 p.m. Where: The Washington Monument Who: -- Ambassador Alan Keyes -- Rep. Bob Barr -- Jim Robinson, founder, www.FreeRepublic.com -- Larry Klayman -- Gary Aldrich -- Lucianne Goldberg -- Former Rep. Ben Jones -- Dr. Paul Fick -- Rev. Jesse Peterson -- LD Brown -- Thousands of concerned Americans from all walks of life. -0- /U.S. Newswire 202-347-2770/ 10/29 19:56 Copyright 1998, U.S. Newswire ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Fri Oct 30 17:44:46 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 09:44:46 +0800 Subject: IP: Internet Allows Lies to Spread Far and Wide Message-ID: <199810310113.RAA00461@netcom13.netcom.com> From: Richard Sampson Subject: IP: Internet Allows Lies to Spread Far and Wide Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 09:04:48 -0500 To: "ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com" Internet Allows Lies to Spread Far and Wide Oct. 30 (Detroit Free Press/KRTBN)--When the telephone was introduced to the American home, party lines and gossip ruled the day, as two, three or half a dozen households shared one phone line. Imagine, though, linking thousands of gossips on a party line. That's how rumors called urban legends travel the Internet. In April, the Taubman Co., the Bloomfield Hills shopping center developer, was on the receiving end of an Internet whopper about a mysterious stalker at the Mall at Tuttle Crossing in Columbus, Ohio. The bad-guy-in-the-parking-lot story spread through Columbus, reaching about 200,000 people. Within months, the same story, which originated at least a decade earlier -- no one knows where -- had been applied to malls as far as San Francisco and Seattle. Counteracting the fear sparked by such rumors takes a new approach, and a new breed of consultants such as New York's Middleberg Interactive On-Line Communications. Taubman turned to Middleberg with a $10,000 retainer to stem the damage. Amy Jackson, a consultant with Middleberg, began working on Taubman's predicament in mid-April and kept on until mid-June. "When Taubman came to us, the process had begun," Jackson said. "While they had a superior PR staff, they had no experience in addressing an Internet hoax." The Taubman legend had the marks of a classic. "No one can identify where it's sourced from; it's national," Jackson said. "It's a very serious problem. There's absolutely no truth to it, but the Internet spreads information instantly and globally." Middleberg defines urban legends as false stories with multiple variations. A story which varies in the telling is also the first red flag to investigators that it probably isn't true. Johnny Scales, general manager of the Mall at Tuttle Crossing, said he read three versions of the story before crafting a response for the Internet. "In one version it was a security guard, in another it was a well-dressed man in a dark blue suit, and in the third it was a guy in a T-shirt," Scales said. Scales investigated the rumor and consulted with police before going to the news media to refute it. This particular urban legend was spread mainly by a network of business and professional women, its membership ranging from secretaries to executives. Many received the rumor, then hit a button and E-mailed the story to friends, relatives and colleagues, without questioning its origin or validity. "There was a woman in Columbus who had hundreds of names on her list," said Chris Tennyson, Taubman's senior vice president of corporate affairs. Defusing the rumors is far more difficult than spreading them, and laws about passing on urban legends over the Internet are vague. Larry Dubin, constitutional law professor at the University of Detroit Mercy School of Law, said liability for making defamatory statements could extend to the Internet, but it's difficult to prove a rumor's source. "If someone merely repeats what they've heard as a means of providing needed information to someone else," they aren't liable, Dubin said. "The question is: Does communicating through the Internet, because you are disseminating information through large numbers of people, create a duty on the part of the communicator to check sources, like a journalist would?" Dubin said. For now, the answer is no. The law figures public people and institutions have access to the media to defend themselves, says Dawn Phillips-Hertz, general counsel of the Michigan Press Association. So businesses dogged by Internet rumors must use means other than the courts to dispel them. Taubman discovered what other companies, such as Neiman Marcus, have discovered -- that the Internet has an almost magical effect on the psychology of otherwise sensible people. Neiman Marcus was the subject of a false rumor, about a dozen years old, but new to the Internet. It said a woman went into Neiman Marcus and ordered a Mrs. Field's cookie. She asked for the recipe, was given it and later got a bill for $250. The story was sent all over the Internet with a cookie recipe. Neiman Marcus spokeswoman Molly Garr said when Neiman's gets E-mail on the cookie incident, it sends customers an explanatory letter, and includes the recipe. Jerry Herron, director of the American Studies program at Wayne State University, said stories like the shopping center stalker tale give people a reason to avoid malls -- especially if they feel uncomfortable there. "The very qualities that first made malls desirable -- open spaces, consistent temperatures and lighting -- now make them spooky," Herron said. "You feel creeped out at the mall, and you think, 'What's wrong with me?' You listen to the story and you think, 'There's nothing wrong with me at all. It's the mall, not me,' " Herron said. By Molly Brauer -0- Visit the four World Wide Web sites of the Detroit Free Press. Visit Auto Authority at http://www.auto.com, the Freep at http://www.freep.com, Jobspage at http://www.freep.com/jobspage and Yaks Corner for kids at http://www.yakscorner.com (c) 1998, Detroit Free Press. Distributed by Knight Ridder/Tribune Business News. TCO, NMG, END!A19?DE-INTERNET News provided by COMTEX. [!ENVIRONMENT] [!WALL+STREET] [BUSINESS] [CORPORATE] [E-MAIL] [INTERNET] [KRT] [MEDIA] [MICHIGAN] [NEW+YORK] [NEWS] [NEWSGRID] [OHIO] [POLICE] [TRAVEL] [USA] [WOMEN] -- ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Fri Oct 30 17:46:25 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 09:46:25 +0800 Subject: IP: Cyber force behind protest Message-ID: <199810310113.RAA00450@netcom13.netcom.com> From: E Pluribus Unum Subject: IP: Cyber force behind protest Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 06:59:50 -0500 To: E Pluribus Unum Email Distribution Network Cyber force By Anne Williamson What is dismaying to Democrats is a cliche to Republicans; no one has done as much for the Republican Party over the past six years as has Bill Clinton. But Bill Clinton has succeeded in making another significant contribution to American political life. Citizenship is back with a vengeance. If you don't believe me, then just check out the hottest site on the Internet, freerepublic.com. Begun by a handful of concerned citizens who discovered their comments regarding Clinton administration corruption were being censored in an AOL political chat room, the website itself is the achievement of one man, Jim Robinson of Fresno, California. A retired software executive suffering from muscular sclerosis, Robinson marshaled his outrage and his resources to establish the website. With nearly 10,000 posters and over 120,000 daily hits, Free Republic has become a phenomenon, a community and -- most recently -- a nascent political force of mindboggling potential. Dedicated to free speech, constitutional government and the exposure of government corruption, Free Republic works on an interactive basis. The pretext for opening debate is for participants to search the Internet for pertinent news articles and post them under Free Republic's many topics to discussion boards of which "Whitewater" -- the catchall Clinton scandal header -- sizzles the loudest. And then -- like a decorative tank of pirhanas tossed a treat by a friendly barkeep -- posters move in to dissect and critique the article. What emerges by the end of the fast-moving discussion "thread" no longer bears the prejudicial marks of journalists belonging to what FR characterizes as "the lamestream media." Freepers, as Lucianne Goldberg has dubbed them, employ links to other Internet sites for unusual citations, contrary opinions and facts supportive of their various arguments. Original material found wanting is received no differently. Dubious sourcing and fuzzy thinking take a drubbing. In fact, FR's forum is rigorous enough to have helped develop several contributors' writing careers: Lawyer J. Peter Mulhern went from a lengthy call-in encounter with Rush Limbaugh to a column for The Washington Weekly after a stint as an FR regular; and David Burge, the IowaHawk, whose whimsical and hilarious "verbal cartoons" lampooning the political left make him a FR favorite, lasted just long enough to get plucked by the Conservative News Network. Since the posts and accompanying threads are indexed and archived daily, FR's history along with that of the nation is readily available. Otherwise, tinker, tailor, soldier are all to be found on the Forum -- a cornucopia of experience and knowledge -- who are joined by White House monitors, disenchanted Democrats, San Francisco "soccer moms with brains," discouraged feminists and the occasional liberal iconoclast. New players stumble onto the site usually via a link from Drudge, WorldNetDaily, Town Hall or other news site while still others are tipped to the political cyber-salon by a friend or relative. When "lurkers," who often prowl the website for months, finally emerge in discussion threads, their first comments almost always reflect the same relief, gratitude and simple awe at the human resources assembled common to most posters: "I love Free Republic!"; "I can't believe what I'm seeing, I thought I was the only person in the country concerned about this administration!"; and "Free Republic forever!"; are typical of first posts. The site's development has been fueled by the Clintons' political thuggery. En masse, freepers form one giant collective detective bent on cracking a devilishly complicated case. Relevant facts are assembled, questions asked and informed speculation engaged in daily, hour by hour. With an alert and articulate investigative team numbering in the thousands, the exercise makes for riveting entertainment. Colorful villains enliven the storyline; there's "Slick," of course, a/k/a "Bent" and "Clintoon," there's "Hitlery" a/k/a "Shrillery" and "Hildebeast," and there's "Whorealdo," "CarVILE," "Sid Bluminsky," "George Steppinalloverus" and other luminaries from the "Kneepad Democrats" branch of the DNC. But FR is not just conservative angst and sly mockery. The site was instrumental in the quick exposure of CNN's fraudulent report regarding the alleged use of nerve gas against U.S. deserters during the Vietnam War, in the overturning of Clinton's attempt to negate U.S. federalism with Executive Order 13083 (signed when he was in Birmingham, England) and in achieving a moratorium on funding for a national identification card and for re-examining the desirability of a national data bank of all citizens' private medical records. Emboldened by success, it was shortly after the CNN fraud was revealed that Free Republic evolved yet again; organized political protest was undertaken by members of the regional chapters which formed rapidly over the summer. Ever since Labor Day, Bill Clinton has had nearly every public appearance in the course of his nonstop fundraising dogged by determined freepers waving protest signs and shouting stinging chants ("He's late, he's late, he musta had a date!"). Consequently, Barbara Boxer, Carolyn "Mostly-Fraud" and other endangered Democrats have had to resort to playing hide and seek with freepers. Some freepers suspect their growing effectiveness tipped the Los Angeles Times and the Washington Post to file suit several weeks ago against Jim Robinson and Free Republic for violation of their property's copyright based on freepers posting entire articles from their respective publications. FR's position is that the postings and discussion threads compare to neighbors mulling over the daily newspapers around a kitchen table and are therefore allowed under the fair use doctrine, which permits the nonprofit use of copyrighted material for purposes of public discussion. The courts must sort it out but if I were writing the script, I'd pursue Free Republic's defense on the "creation of something new" aspect of the fair use doctrine. The website is unlike any other venue in American life; the newspaper articles alone are just so much fishwrapping for tomorrow's garbage, but the archived material is the unique product of an informed community of engaged citizenry; the very purpose the founders intended free speech to serve. This week Free Republic is undergoing another evolutionary leap, an unintended consequence of intoxicated Teamsters having roughed up demonstrators earlier this month in Philadelphia. After viewing television footage of the incident, Jim Robinson determined he'd had enough. He would, he posted to the forum, travel to Washington while the weather was still warm enough for a lone man in a wheelchair to spend the day outside the White House holding aloft a protest sign. Within hours, several hundred people determined that Jim Robinson wouldn't be making that journey alone. Now the protesters number in the thousands and Free Republic's "March for Justice" has been moved on account of its growing size from Lafayette Park to the Ellipse and from there to the Washington Monument. On Saturday, literally thousands of average Americans -- people who look like your neighbors because they are your neighbors -- from across the country, many of whom never gave a thought to political protest before in their lives, will have descended on America's national home in order to participate in a six hour grassroots protest funded out-of-pocket. They will be standing with one man in support of just one idea; the idea of one nation, under God, with liberty and justice for all. Eagles up, America! Anne Williamson, a WorldNetDaily contributor, has written for the Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, Spy magazine, Film Comment and Premiere. An expert on Soviet-Russian affairs, she is currently working on a book, "Contagion: How America Betrayed Russia," a chapter of which can be read online. -- ****************************************************************** E Pluribus Unum The Central Ohio Patriot Group P.O. Box 791 Eventline/Voicemail: (614) 823-8499 Grove City, OH 43123 Meetings: Monday Evenings, 7:30pm, Ryan's Steakhouse 3635 W. Dublin-Granville Rd. (just East of Sawmill Rd.) http://www.infinet.com/~eplurib eplurib at infinet.com ****************************************************************** **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From rah at shipwright.com Fri Oct 30 18:26:22 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 10:26:22 +0800 Subject: Hayek Web Page URL Notice Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 20:31:06 EST Reply-To: Hayek Related Research Sender: Hayek Related Research From: Hayek-L List Host Subject: Hayek Web Page URL Notice To: HAYEK-L at MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU You may find the Friedrich Hayek Web Page of interest, on the web at: http://members.aol.com/gregransom/hayekpage.htm Hyperlink: The Friedrich Hayek Scholars' Page The Hayek Page includes links to articles by Hayek, interviews with Hayek, articles on Hayek available on the internet, Hayek's complete bibliography, the register of Hayek's collected papers, quotes on Hayek, quotes by Hayek, the Nobel press release announcing Hayek's Nobel Prize, a fact file on Hayek, and a bibliography of writings on Hayek, among many other resources. The Hayek Page also includes links to the Hayek-L email list searchable Electronic Archive, as well as links to the Hayek-L guidelines for posting, and to the Listserv commands for changing the setting to your Hayek-L subscription -- including instructions for joining the Hayek-L email list. Please feel welcome to forward along this message to other email lists and individuals where appropriate. For further information contact: Greg Ransom Dept. of Social Science MiraCosta College gbransom at aol.com >> END << --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From vznuri at netcom.com Fri Oct 30 19:29:33 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 11:29:33 +0800 Subject: network computers, web TV, java Message-ID: <199810310301.TAA02632@netcom13.netcom.com> recently it was announced that Web TV, owned by mostly by MS, will not come out with a java version of their computer. even after talking about this as early as '97.. this is really BOGUS in my opinion. recently I posted how similar a Web TV is to a network computer. if you had java in it, I would say that IS a network computer. MS is trying to destroy the network computer market by this decision. the president of web TV denies MS has had anything to do with it. B*******!!! @#%^&* they say that it would "cost too much" to add java to their machine, and that they are "stretched thin". c'mon you idiots, you're a multimillion dollar company, and why don't you JUST COME OUT WITH ANOTHER JAVA MODEL that costs a bit more?!?!? what do you think we are, STUPID?!?! oh yeah, and how long would it take now that there are debugged Java Chips available??? I know what you're doing.... well you WON'T GET AWAY WITH IT-- mark my words, you @#%^&* gatesasskissers!!!!! gates REALLY IS AN EVIL, PETTY MAN it's just that he's managed to hide it from the world there's an old saying.. "I'm not trying to get EVERYTHING.. only YOUR HALF" .. but gates, your days are numbered!!! see the article at http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,28136,00.html?st.ne.fd.gif.d From rah at shipwright.com Fri Oct 30 19:40:28 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 11:40:28 +0800 Subject: [RRE]The Return of Antimasonism in American Political Life Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:59:29 -0800 (PST) From: Phil Agre To: "Red Rock Eater News Service" Subject: [RRE]The Return of Antimasonism in American Political Life Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Subscribe: Conspiracy and Reason: The Return of Antimasonism in American Political Life Phil Agre http://dlis.gseis.ucla.edu/ (I wrote this back in the spring, but it seems even more relevant now.) When going to the movies, my favorite part is afterward, walking back out into the world, seeing everything through the prism of the movie. After seeing Terry Gilliam's bizarre "12 Monkeys", for example, I drove across San Diego in the grip of a delusion that I was Bruce Willis, warning Cassandra-like about a catastophe that nobody wanted to hear about. Of course it didn't make sense. Am I really warning anyone about a catastrophe? Is nobody really listening? But that's how it felt for a good couple of hours. I got that feeling again this afternoon. For the last few months, in amongst my official duties, I have been reading the literature on apocalytic social movements. I was originally inspired in this by David Noble's book "The Religion of Technology". Noble observes, for example, that many of the important early engineers, particularly in the United States, were Masons, and he describes the development of a particular kind of millennialism -- or at least a secularized form of religious utopianism -- among engineers that became secularized and formed the outlines of technical movements such as artificial intelligence and -- he might as well have added -- cyberspace. As part of this reading campaign, earlier this week I read large parts of Robert Fuller's "Naming the Antichrist", which is a history of social movements in the United States that, from earliest colonial times to the present, have claimed to identify the Antichrist that is mentioned briefly in the visionary books of the Bible. In reading Fuller's book, all at once it occurred to me that the ongoing tidal wave of accusations and innuendoes against Bill Clinton and his entire generation resemble nothing so much as Antimasonism. The similarities are most striking: both involve attempts to foment hatred by ordinary people against their slightly better-off and more cosmopolitan fellow citizens by implicating them in an enormous Conspiracy. Even the fine details of the accusations are similar: in each case, for example, the conspirators are said to undermine religion and promote decadence through the public schools. This analogy impressed me for a while, but then I cooled down. Even when an analogy is instructive, one should determine its limits. After all, nobody is claiming that Bill Clinton is mounting his vast campaign of murder, drug dealing, treason, and bank fraud on behalf of the Illuminati, right? And with that thought I filed the whole thing in my notebook. That was Tuesday. This afternoon, Friday, I happened to pass through a Barnes and Noble in Costa Mesa, California. I was there because the bookstore has a public restroom and is on the way to the most excellent El Toro Bravo taco stand, which does not. Briefly inspecting the "New Non-Fiction Books" shelves as is my custom, I noticed a new book by Tony Brown. Its title, "Empower the People", was not so promising, given that I've already read quite a few books by conservative authors about how the free market empowers people to make choices etc etc etc. Yet something poked at me to look closer, and I saw the subtitle: "A 7-Step Plan to Overthrow the Conspiracy That Is Stealing Your Money and Freedom". I opened the book and found to my utter slack-jawed amazement that it described none other than the great Conspiracy by the Illuminati, led by Bill Clinton. I am not making this up. Now, if the author of this book were a fringe crazy then it would only be mildly odd to find the book in Barnes and Noble. Just the other day I sat on the floor in the Barnes and Noble at Pico and Westwood in Los Angeles and read large parts of a well-produced volume entitled "A Woman Rides the Beast" by Dave Hunt, which argues that the woman seen riding on the back of the Beast in the Book of Revelation is none other than the Virgin Mary as she is worshipped in the Catholic Church. (This is part of a resurgence of anti-Catholicism among some American evangelical Protestants that deserves much more attention than it has gotten -- see, for example, Michael W. Smith singing on a recent record, amidst a lamentation of various sins, of people who are "jaded by hypocrisies behind cathedral walls"). This is the sort of fringe weirdness that is easy to write off. But the author of "Empower the People", Tony Brown, is not a marginal crazy. I hate to be the one to break this to you, but the United States is now a country in which a man who believes that the President is an agent of the Illuminati has a regular program on public television. What are we to make of this? Several things. First, in the astonishing climate of political warfare now under way in the United States, when the speaker of the House insinuates in a speech at Stanford University that the President is systematically killing his enemies (NY Times 5/3/98) and nobody finds this even slightly odd, we have to confront the fact that in the late 18th century, during the formative decades of the political culture of the United States, this country was positively addled by conspiracy theories. These theories were not prominent in the writings of the educated secular elites who officially founded the country. But the rank and file of the Revolution were animated in large part (though not, of course, solely) by elaborate claims to have located the Antichrist in the crown and church of England, and in their adherents in America. Nor the American cultural inclination to conspiracy theories end with the Constitution. As the new country fought its first round of political conflicts, the theories suddenly shifted their attention -- to the Masons. This happened precisely 200 years ago, in fact, in 1798, when the first tracts appeared describing the great Conspiracy of the Illuminati, a subgroup of the Masons from Bavaria. After smouldering for several years, opposition to this Conspiracy became a substantial social movement beginning around 1830 in the "burned-over district" of upstate New York, so-called because of the waves of evangelical religious enthusiasm that had swept over the area. (Madison probably had an earlier wave of revivals, the First Great Awakening, in mind when he expressed relief in the famous tenth Federalist Paper that social movements that rise up in one part of the country, particularly religious movements that devolve into political ones, cannot easily spread to other areas.) The Antimasonic movement became a political party which contested several elections before collapsing a decade later. You will recall that many early American engineers were Masons, as were many of the Founding Fathers. But who exactly were the Masons? The Masons originated as a medieval guild, but during the period in question they were a semi-secret society of white men who constituted themselves on classical Greek and Roman models as the intellectual elites of their respective countries. In this sense, Antimasonism was very much a revolt against educated people. That it was also a revolt against the same people who founded the country was, so far as I can determine, little-noted at the time. It is often observed that cultural patterns are able to go underground for decades or centuries, only to spring fully-formed to the surface once again, as if they were brand new, when the time is right. And that, I would suggest, is what's happening now. If this were the late 18th century, white men who rose through education from relatively poor backgrounds -- men such as Bill Clinton -- would be spinning classical political philosophies and writing the Constitution, and conservative evangelical ministers would be spinning conspiracy theories and opposing the Constitution on the grounds that (quite the opposite of what many such ministers say today) it does not create a Christian nation. The vigorous but ideologically vague patriotism of the contemporary anti- government movement likewise corresponds to the equally vague ideas of the 18th century conspiracy theorists. In drawing out these parallels, I am particularly struck by the place of technology in American political culture. The early engineers -- the men who founded the country's original technological institutions -- were largely Masons, and popular reactionary movements in the United States have increasingly incorporated technological themes into their theories. Computers, for example, play an important role in conspiracy theories based on the Book of Revelation. Viewed superficially, these theories sometimes seem to resemble the much more serious ideas of privacy and civil liberties advocates. My experience, however, is that the people who spin such theories are indifferent to accurate information about the nature and use of computers, no matter how unsettling; their concern with the technology is much more symbolic. In my view, a critical turning point in American cultural constructions of information technology occurred in the 1970's, in the wake of the Vietnam war. This cultural shift has been brilliantly documented by James W. Gibson's "Warrior Dreams: Paramilitary Culture in Post-Vietnam America" (1994). The Vietnam war, Gibson observes, was organized largely by men from elite institutions who believed in formal rationality and made heavy use of mathematical decision-making models. They lost, and there arose in the aftermath of that loss an important cultural narrative that was best captured by Sylvester Stallone's "Rambo". Rambo is a lone individual who keeps fighting despite having been betrayed by decadent institutions. Cold War heroes, by contrast, may have been ambivalent about their institutions, but they were insiders -- they were part of the institution. Rambo is an outsider. He has two enemies, the "official" enemy and the institution itself. This figure of the betrayed and wounded hero fighting two enemies has become deeply engraved in American culture. Constrast, for example, the original Cold War era (1966-1969) "Mission: Impossible" television series and the 1996 movie version starring Tom Cruise. In the television version, the government is completely unquestioned, but for Tom Cruise, the CIA is the enemy as well. Rambo epitomized a new cultural construction of masculinity, set against institutions rather than identifying with them. And technology was identified with the institutions. This helps to explain why Hollywood has apparently decided that computers and rationality are feminine domains. (Think, for example, of "The X-Files".) Cultures often define men as "outside" of something and women as "inside"; what varies is the something. In this case, the something is the institutional world, technology and all. The Rambo phenomenon also helps to explain the otherwise mysterious shift that took place during the 1980's in prevailing cultural constructions of computer hackers: the original hackers were comfortably identified with military-sponsored research institutions, but then the word "hacker" suddenly shifted around to refer to men, whether bad criminals or virtuous rebels, who were outside of and opposed to institutions. This, in turn, helps explain the peculiar divide on the political right between those cultural conservatives -- the inheritors of the Antimasonites -- who persist in identifying technology with oppressive institutions and a demographically narrow but highly educated group of libertarians who have redefined technology as an instrument for the destruction of institutions. The point here is not that Rambo appeared from nowhere. Quite the contrary, "Rambo"'s construction of the Vietnam war drew upon and revalued elements of American historical memory that have been handed down, for the most part unconsciously, by all sorts of mechanisms throughout the country's history. And once it did, neoconservative intellectuals such as Irving Kristol set about reinterpreting those cultural forms in terms of their "New Class" political strategy. That phrase, "New Class", was originally applied by Milovan Djilas in his analysis of the bureaucrats who consolidated their power in the Soviet Union. True to the ideologies of Lenin and Stalin, these people were drawn primarily from the lower strata of Russian society, semi-educated and selected through the Soviet examination system (itself originally derived, via European variants, from the classical Chinese system), and installed in positions of power that they proceeded to consolidate over several decades. The neoconservatives' strategy is to portray American liberals as an analogue of the Soviet New Class and to use the money of the rich to mobilize working people against professionals and the poor. This helps to explain why conservative rhetoric virtually never discloses the existence of working-class liberals, and why the party that enjoys the overwhelming support of wealthy Americans persists in appropriating generations of left-wing rhetoric to portray liberals as a wealthy "elite". (It's bad to foment envy against the rich, apparently, but not against college professors.) This whole strategy succeeds in large part because of the whole historical inheritance of Antimasonism and its successive generations of descendents. The liberals, in short, are the new Masons. In his history of German intellectual life in the era that led up to the Nazis, Georg Lukacs spoke of a "destruction of reason" -- a step- by-step demolition of rational thought that became possible as Germans found themselves willing to project more and more and more of their own negative impulses into a vast enemy. Tony Brown's "Empower the People", it seems to me, is one very clear step in a destruction of reason that is currently far along in the United States. Antimasonism is the American equivalent of fascism, and Antimasonism is coming back. Will the relatively rational antiliberalism of neoconservative intellectuals be drowned by the unfortunate tradition of conspiratoralism upon which it draws its emotional force? That, it seems to me, is an urgent question for our country right now. end --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From info at innovativetx.com Sat Oct 31 12:36:17 1998 From: info at innovativetx.com (info at innovativetx.com) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 12:36:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: Company Press Release - Oct. 29 Message-ID: <199810301949.TAA06109@websites> Thursday October 29, 12:55 pm Eastern Time Company Press Release SOURCE: Innovative Tracking Solutions Corp. Innovative Tracking Solutions Joins Forces With Leading Medical Experts; Private Practice Protocols to be Introduced in 4th Qtr 1998 LAGUNA HILLS, Calif., Oct. 29 /PRNewswire/ -- Innovative Tracking Solutions Corp. (OTC Bulletin Board: IVTX - news) announced today that it has teamed up with three leading experts in three significant areas of expertise, Incontinence, Woundcare and Injury Prevention/Ergonomics to develop and implement three new protocols for the Private Practice(TM) Vibration Reminder System for specific applications of the product in their respective fields. The Private Practice(TM) Vibration Reminder Disk is worn on the body or in the pocket and automatically, consistently and silently vibrates at specific intervals throughout the day to prompt or remind patients to do their prescribed therapy regimen at home, work or wherever they may be. The product is currently being used in the healthcare industry for over 50 applications from post-surgical to biofeedback. ``In addition to general rehabilitation, we have isolated three of the most significant and prevalent problems and situations in which our product has the most impact,'' stated Dianna Cleveland, president and CEO of Innovative Tracking Solutions. ``We are honored to have these well-known experts spearheading the development of these new protocols which will help professionals in these fields to more quickly and effectively implement the Private Practice(TM) system with their patients and clients.'' In Incontinence Therapy: Genevieve Messick, M.D., was an integral team member in the development of a behavioral incontinence program that is delivered in over sixty clinics throughout the country. The program carries an 80 percent success rate for eliminating incontinence symptoms in properly selected patients. Dr. Messick currently has her own practice, received her B.S. from John Caroll University in Cleveland, Ohio and graduated cum laude from Ohio State University College of Medicine in Columbus, Ohio. Dr. Messick has recently received a patent for a device for the treatment of pelvic floor dysfunction and she is a member of AOA (Alpha Omega Alpha -- a national medical honor society). ``We are thrilled to have Dr. Messick's expertise and enthusiasm behind this project. She is a prominent and respected expert in her field and she clearly envisions the dramatic impact our product will have in addressing the problem of incontinence which afflicts more than 13 million Americans,'' stated Scott Postle, vice president, Healthcare Division of Innovative Tracking Solutions. ``Over 80 percent of cases of urinary incontinence can be cured or improved with proper training and compliance with Kegel exercise therapy. Private Practice(TM) is a natural extension to these therapies, including biofeedback.'' ``After finding out about the Private Practice(TM) Vibration Reminder Disk, we immediately began prescribing the device to our patients,'' said Dr. Messick. ``We have had a positive response from our patients and I am excited about working with Innovative Tracking Solutions in developing this protocol.'' In Wound Care: Evonne Fowler, RN, CNS, CWOCN (Certified Wound Ostomy Continence Nurse), is President of Dynamic New Directions, an educational and consulting company in Banning, Calif. She is a Clinical Nurse Specialist in Gerontology having graduated from the UCLA School of Nursing. Ms. Fowler is currently in practice as a Wound/Skin Care Specialist at Kaiser Permanente Hospital, Bellflower, Calif., where she manages the Chronic Wound Care Center. She serves on the Editorial Board for Ostomy/Wound Management and chairs the Annual Advanced Wound Care Symposium sponsored by Health Management Publications, Inc., and is a founding board member and President of the newly formed Association for the Advancement of Wound Care (AAWC). The AAWC is a multidisciplinary organization whose mission is to facilitate optimal care for people with wounds. She is also a past member of the National Pressure Ulcer Advisory Panel (NPUAP). ``Working with Evonne has been quite illuminating. Her 25 plus years in wound care nursing and vast knowledge of the challenges that exist in Ostomy/Wound Care today has been instrumental in developing our Wound Care Protocol,'' said Mr. Postle. ``I'm a true believer in that preventing pressure ulcers is much easier than treating them once they develop. It's simply a matter of frequent and consistent repositioning or 'unweighting' throughout the day,'' stated Ms. Fowler. ``This little disk is so effective in prompting bedridden or wheelchair-bound patients to do this repositioning that I expect it to save the healthcare industry tremendous dollars in wound care!'' In Work Injury Prevention and Ergonomics: Michael S. Melnik, M.S., O.T.R., owner and president of Minneapolis-based Prevention Plus, Inc., has authored and co-authored several works on Cumulative Trauma Disorder (CTD), back injury and other current ergonomic related issues. He has consulted for firms such as Fluor Daniel, Pepsi-Cola, Wal-Mart and United Airlines, to name a just a few. Mr. Melnik is an Occupational Therapist with an advanced degree in exercise physiology from the University of Illinois. His area of expertise includes Employee Education/Training, Ergonomics Programs, Job Site Stretching and Warm-Up Programs. ``Mr. Melnik's practical approach to injury prevention fits extremely well with our company philosophy. He is well respected in the industry and a very charismatic speaker which is sure to have the industry buzzing about our product,'' commented Cleveland. ``His knowledge and expertise will bring a pragmatic focus to the products' applications for all types of work environments for all types of companies.'' ``I am excited at the Private Practice(TM) product and the possibilities it holds to compliment what has been my passion for the last 10 years; inviting positive changes in behavior,'' stated Mr. Melnik. ``At Prevention Plus, we are always looking for more ways to improve the work environment and to promote safety and awareness on the job. I truly believe the Private Practice(TM) system is a cutting edge solution that makes a great deal of sense for most companies today. I am confident that many will add this simple product to their existing injury prevention and ergonomic programs and that it will give growing companies the ''jump start`` they need to finally begin a program they can afford.'' Based in Laguna Hills, CA, Innovative Tracking Solutions innovates, designs, and develops sophisticated, yet simple products that have broad ranges of applications. The rapid growth of the company's Healthcare Products Division is a result of aggressive R&D and marketing, solid relationships with companies within the healthcare infrastructure, and a consistent focus on pioneering extensions to current healthcare services with a multitude of product applications. For more information regarding IVTX or the Private Practice(TM) Vibration Reminder Disk, call 1-888-4REMEMBER (473-6362) or visit the company's website: http://www.innovativetx.com or hyperlink http://www.privatepractice.com. SOURCE: Innovative Tracking Solutions Corp. From bill.stewart at pobox.com Fri Oct 30 20:39:52 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 12:39:52 +0800 Subject: don't use passwords as private keys (was Re: Using a password as a private key.) In-Reply-To: <19981029221752.26488.rocketmail@send102.yahoomail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981030182933.008baae0@idiom.com> >Harv "RedRook" (is that Harvey Rook?) writes: >> You don't know you have to destroy a key file, until it is too late. At 02:43 PM 10/30/98 GMT, Adam Back wrote: >Sooo. What does this imply you should do? >Destroy your key file on a regular basis :-) ... >This means that if someone were (say like GCHQ or ECHELON) were to be >archiving my email, and later develop an interest in reading it, they >would be out of luck. And I wouldn't be able to help them if I wanted to. ... >Forward secrecy means that only the current key file is vulnerable. Forward secrecy for encryption keys is a really important technique; as you say, nobody can go back later and force you to reveal the key. Forward secrecy for signature keys is less useful (:-), since it means that you can't later sign a document using an old key. (Occasionally this may be bad - e.g. court cases demonstrating you signed something - but it also means nobody can forge an old signature of yours.) In any Forward Secrecy environment, it tends to help to have multiple keys, with a long-term key that's only used for signing short-term keys. The classic example is Authenticated Diffie-Hellman key exchange, with one-use session keyparts signed by your signature key (ideally with the signatures passed inside the encrypted session rather than beforehand in the clear.) One difficulty is proving that you don't have a backup copy of the keyfile, on tapes, or hidden, or printed on paper stuck in a desk drawer. Proving that _you_ didn't make a copy is usually impossible, and knowing whether somebody else has a copy of things is a problem Ollie North has dealt with (:-) ; if you're running your own PC, physically secure, then you're at least as secure as your network connections. Another issue for Kong and other systems with keys made from a passphrase and keyfile is whether to reuse either of them in a forward secrecy environment. It's sometimes convenient to use the same passphrase and change keyfiles every cycle, but that depends on your threat models. >Your passphrase might not be as secure as you think it is. >The sound of you typing it whilst on the phone, or the RF noise >emitted by the keyboard controller chip may completely or partially leak it. If you're worried about RF noise, you have to assume the CPU or disk is also radiating enough for the spooks. On the other hand, that video camera in the ceiling can watch your keystrokes, but can't watch the CPU. That's when the paranoids worry about whether the KGB is sneaking in and copying their disk drive at night, and they start getting encrypted file system software. :-) Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From blancink at cnw.com Fri Oct 30 20:52:01 1998 From: blancink at cnw.com (blancink) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 12:52:01 +0800 Subject: network computers, web TV, java Message-ID: <001c01be0487$d9185860$218195cf@blanc> >From Vlad ze Nurdi, who knows knows *Everything*: >I know what you're doing.... > >well you WON'T GET AWAY WITH IT-- mark my words, you >@#%^&* gatesasskissers!!!!! > >gates REALLY IS AN EVIL, PETTY MAN >it's just that he's managed to hide it from the world ............................................................ Do you have some kind of emergency which requires that you get a web TB with java Real Soon Now, but that stinkin' rotten billg is making life hard on you? Like there aren't other companies working in this market as well, and will jump at the opportunity to include features left out by their competitors (in particular, Microsoft) for the benefit of whiners like you? It's not like he (or the other companies working on this project) *owe* it to you, you know. It's more like you have to wait for someone to come up with the idea, then to do all the work of putting it together, then you have to decide whether you want it, then you put your money down. You're so juvenile. But so amusing. .. Blanc From nobody at replay.com Fri Oct 30 22:48:39 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 14:48:39 +0800 Subject: network computers, web TV, java In-Reply-To: <001c01be0487$d9185860$218195cf@blanc> Message-ID: <199810310622.HAA14682@replay.com> >>>>> blancink writes: > Do you have some kind of emergency which requires that you get a > web TB with java Real Soon Now, but that stinkin' rotten billg is > making life hard on you? Naw, VZ probably just had the sort of day I've just had with NT, the lower-than-pig-shit `operating system' that the marketing dickheads in Redmond seem to have sold to every IT manager and pointy-hair boss in this gawd-forsaken industry. It doesn't bother me that Micro$hit have made nearly every technical error that they could. But I'm royally pissed off that they've managed to sell this cruft to the ignorant folks with the cheque- books, who then expect me to make their `virtual private empires' work. Just frustration, you know... From fnord at antioch-college.edu Fri Oct 30 22:55:27 1998 From: fnord at antioch-college.edu (Matt Fitzpatrick) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 14:55:27 +0800 Subject: Entropy Message-ID: <000901be0421$42f46f60$6ffadac7@bw111.antioch-college.edu> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hello out there. I propose a question to the Cypherpunks community. Other than the infamous Claude Shannon paper published in '49 in the Bell Systems Technical Journal "Communications Theory of Secrecy Systems", I am looking for a good (maybe a more layman level, published in the last decade or so, and available on the web) paper describing the relationship between entropy (of information systems) and secure communication. If no-one has any good suggestions, maybe you could email me with your favorite number or color or size of pants. Just kidding, what I am really interested in is, is how much Jelllo you can fit in your left sock. Or hell, send me your most provocative pictures of Margaret Thatcher in the nude. I am, in my uneducated state of fourth-year mathematics major at Antioch College, attempting a research project in the field of cryptography, and would appreciate citations of sources you consider significant developments in the field of cryptography, in the last 50 years or so. But your flammability has nothing to do with this request for information at all. So, goddamnit, thanks for your help. Matthew Sommers Fitzpatrick fnord at antioch-college.edu http://antioch-college.edu/~fnord/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.0 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBNjlopHlvMHCiUH52EQJD0QCg7QTES6BZRfJUDUx9+VCQmySuzMMAnRFb OJLWPgZBBHYn4MP87QVrSW2f =SvDu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From bjohnson at deskmail.com Sat Oct 31 17:18:20 1998 From: bjohnson at deskmail.com (bjohnson at deskmail.com) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 17:18:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: ACCEPT CREDIT CARDS! WATCH SALES SOAR! Message-ID: <199811010118.RAA15479@toad.com> Accept Credit Cards - Any Business - Guaranteed Approval - NO Application Fee! WATCH YOUR SALES SOAR!! 1-800-675-6573 8:30am - 6:00pm Central, live agents (1-800-466-9222 ext. 8151 24hr information) -- Low rates, great prices, FREE Check by Phone/Fax set-up with account -- Be processing in 5 business days. 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Selling a Biz-op? �If You Don�t Call Us We Both Lose Money� 1-800-675-6573 8:30am - 6:00pm Central, live agents (1-800-466-9222 ext.8151 24hr information) NOTE: For those on the internet who do not want to recieve exciting messages such as this..... *We strive to comply with all state and federal laws and to send ads only to interested parties. *This ad is not intended for nor do we knowingly send to Washington State residents. * OR CLICK_HERE_TO_GOTO_REMOVE-LIST.COM (http://remove-list.com) Remove-List is a free public service offering to help the general public get removed from commercial mailings lists and has not sent this message. If you want their help please add your name to their list and we you will not receive a commercial email from us or any other member bulk emailer. * Responding to the "return address" will NOT have your name removed. From vznuri at netcom.com Sat Oct 31 03:26:02 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 19:26:02 +0800 Subject: network computers, web TV, java In-Reply-To: <001c01be0487$d9185860$218195cf@blanc> Message-ID: <199810310931.BAA20649@netcom13.netcom.com> hi BLANK a company has a *reponsibility* to its customers. perhaps you would care to deny that?? gates has a *responsibility* to his customers. what is that responsibility? to create products they want. to anticipate their needs. you, working at MS, and spouting the official company line (and not identifying your affiliation, like all corporate slaveminded robots) would have a hard time grasping that. nice of you not to use your MS address a web tv with java has had *extreme* interest from around the country!! but MS is not merely not doing web tv with java. they are sending out smoke signals that they will do it one minute, but then SIT ON IT. thus cleverly preventing any other companies from even thinking about it. as I understand it, as early as 97 it was announced it would happen. this is a way of STALLING, and pissing on a market. so BW, what happens if another company does create itself to solve this little problem? and in 2 years we actually have a java type web tv??? well, would you apologize then?? what about the 2 years we didn't have one because of MS's outright inexcusable *arrogance*?? do you think that this means that people didn't want it until 2 years from now? if so, you'd be an idiot. yes, another company will come along and cannibalize and disembowel MS if they keep this crap up. and they will show NO MERCY to MS just as MS has shown NO MERCY to anyone else. it all smells like IBM not wanting to sell PCs because it would cannibalize their mainframes. yes, Win95 is a decent operating system-- by 95 standards. by year 2000 standards, I think it is starting to lose touch with what customers really want-- something that you don't have to be a geek to run. the public is rapidly beginning to understand that it isn't that they are stupid, it's just that the OS is stupid.... how many people have ever had to reinstall windows 95 and a lot of other software to fix a simple trivial glitch??? a decent OS would know when it has been corrupted. in fact with a really good one, corruption is IMPOSSIBLE. by well behaved apps or nonwell behaved, take your pick. MS is getting too arrogant. you can call me whatever names you want, but I know that they have hit the point of no return. just recently. in fact, that's why I thought I would announce it to ya'all From blancw at cnw.com Sat Oct 31 05:47:25 1998 From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 21:47:25 +0800 Subject: network computers, web TV, java In-Reply-To: <199810310931.BAA20649@netcom13.netcom.com> Message-ID: <000101be04d1$40e3cee0$3c8195cf@blanc> >From Vlad Ze Nurdi, Who Still Doesn't Get It: (sigh. I don't usually reply point-by-point, but this calls for it) : a company has a *reponsibility* to its customers. perhaps : you would care to deny that?? gates has a *responsibility* : to his customers. what is that responsibility? to create : products they want. to anticipate their needs. You speak of responsibility as if it was a total assimilation, and as if it was a given which is to be expected, now that they've dissolved everyone's resistance. Spineless. An individual, or the company which they have created, does not have the responsibility to customers, prior to having acquired customers, to supply them with heretofore unknown pleasures. They have all sorts of responsibilities which they create once they have obtained the support of customers, but not in advance. And even after they have established a client base, they do not thereby become burdened forevermore with the obligatory responsiblity to provide those users with their future desires, needs, and wants, which no one knew was possible until the Research Department announced its discovery. Joe Random cannot be accused of negligence from the fact that he didn't invent Linux or Unix or NT. He has no responsibility to create the new products that Random User wants, he is under no obligation to anticipate their needs, or be considered responsible for the fact that Random User is sitting in his darkened apartment with nothing to do, waiting for someone to offer him a java-enabled WebTV with 500 interactive channels, nor to be charged with ir-responsibility because he didn't realize that Random User doesn't have a life and constantly needs more entertainment and fresh updates to keep his eroding intellect occupied. : you, working at MS, and spouting the official company line : (and not identifying your affiliation, like : all corporate slaveminded robots) would have a hard time : grasping that. nice of you not to use your MS address For the record, I have not worked at MS for a year. Furthermore, I am not addressing the quality of their products, but the error in proposing that one has a right to a claim to their future productivity for the benefit of Random User and All Cyberspace. : a web tv with java has had *extreme* interest from around : the country!! but MS is not merely not doing web tv with : java. they are sending out smoke signals that they will : do it one minute, but then SIT ON IT. So? If they decided to close up shop tomorrow, that would be their prerogative. They were not instigated by Government to produce products for you, products to bitch about for 1) being of low quality or for 2) failing to produce them fast enough to suit you. :thus cleverly preventing : any other companies from even thinking about it. as I understand it, : as early as 97 it was announced it would happen. this is a way : of STALLING, and pissing on a market. Did you ever see that bookcalled "The Other Guy Blinked"? I think it was about the Pepsi/Coca-Cola war where the companies were competing for a merger or something of the sort. One company got the deal because the other company did not respond fast enough, or something like that. That's the way it is in the market these days, in case you hadn't heard - speed is of the essence. If Microsoft is stalling, that is all the opportunity a computer shark needs to swallow that market segment by being there first and nabbing the eagerly-awaiting customer's business. And correct, no one will cry with sympathy that Microsoft was edged out of the lead. So what are these sharks waiting for? They can use their own judgement about proper market timing, they don't have to wait for Microsoft. They can make some profit/cost calculations and decide what risks to take. They have Business Analyst MBAs working in their Finance and Marketing departments, people with years of experience, getting highly paid to give them advice on these things. They can decide to work with Sun, instead. : so BW, what happens if another company does create itself : to solve this little problem? Then it's Microsoft's problem, isn't it. They'll have to get together over a latte' and figure out what to do about it. This is not an exceptional, out-of-the-ordinary situation. It's part of struggling in the highly competitive global world of technology. That's part of the work of doing business in the free-market: success is not pre-arranged by government and imposed by law upon the open-mouthed population (not quite yet, anyway). It's up to everyone to stay alert and pay attention. You blink, you lose. They know this. Question is, why you, who is not in the playing field, are so worried about it, in particular as you despise Billg and look forward to his demise. Jealous? :and in 2 years we actually : have a java type web tv??? well, would you apologize then?? Frankly, My Dear . . . it's not my responsiblity to worry about it. I don't get paid to agonize like you do for free. [. . .] : MS is getting too arrogant. you can call me whatever names : you want, but I know that they have hit the point of no : return. just recently. in fact, that's why I thought I : would announce it to ya'all So have you morphed into the CyberCop of Attitude? Taking the world of software upon your keyboard-hunched shoulders? What in the world does Microsoft's stand have anything to do with your own experience of Life, the Universe, and Everything? I thought you preferred Linux, which is having a surge of interest and enlarged user base. And Unix - everyone likes Unix, why don't you focus on them instead? Why don't you exult over their superiority, or why don't you write to Sun Microsystems - they had the idea for the Net PC first, anyway, didn't they? It's their responsibility to carry through on it. Tell them they have the responsibility of supplying you *immediately* with their version of a net PC (with their Java, of course). And get a job. .. Blanc From emc at wire.insync.net Sat Oct 31 09:54:02 1998 From: emc at wire.insync.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 01:54:02 +0800 Subject: Usenet Under Siege Message-ID: <199810311726.LAA16766@wire.insync.net> Interesting developments in the election year attempts by New York State Attorney General Dennis Vacco to create legal liability for ISPs over Usenet content, particularly alleged child porn. Over the past few years, a number of national news providers, under pressure from various self-declared "child advocates," have filtered out articles from their feeds whose newsgroup names suggested that depictions of the sexuality of minors were topical. Given that Usenet routes around censorship, that a "newsgroup" is not a tangible entity, but simply one line on a Usenet article which attempts to roughly categorize it, and that the Usenet newsgroup namespace is practically infinite, such attempts to curtail the topics discussed in the worldwide real-time conversation that is Usenet have been laughably unsuccessful. While uncensored Usenet feeds are still the standard most customers demand, this content-based pruning of the daily newsfeed by some ISPs has provided the opportunity for some in law enforcement to characterize uncensored news servers as some sort of outlaw minority. Law enforcement is now trying to use such representations as a pretense to erode the notion that ISPs should enjoy common carrier status for content they do not originate. It therefore came as no surprise when Dennis Vacco, the incumbent New York Attorney General, and an individual who has built his reputation with numerous publicity stunts revolving around sexual vices featuring those under the legal age of majority, seized the news servers of Dreamscape and Buffnet in a highly publicized raid, accompanied by simultaneous press releases and Web pages, announcing that he had broken up an "International Child Pornography Ring." 13 individuals in several countries were also arrested on various possession, trafficking, and promotion charges involving illegal erotica. The fallacies in Vacco's spewage were innumerably large. There was the absurd idea that a running gag in one newsgroup involving a mythical "Pedo University" indicated the existence of a "virtual academic institution devoted to the sexual abuse of children." Vacco also seemed to believe that individual Usenet newsgroups were owned and operated by specific individuals, and that certain newgroups were "providing services" to the aforementioned imaginary academic institution. In reality, no one owns or operates a Usenet newsgroup, and any individual may post anything he likes to any newsgroup at any time, either anonymously, or with identifying information attached. Dennis Vacco's clueless attack on the global Usenet may in fact backfire, as there is presently serious discussion over a possible three day protest, in which all traffic destined for the groups targetted by Vacco will be posted instead to alt.law-enforcement. Vacco's plans to undermine claims of common carrier status for ISP's can be found in his following statements. "Most Internet service providers choose not to carry news groups that cater to the interests of child porn traffickers for obvious reasons. "Those that do are well aware of their nature and purpose, possess the offensive images on their servers, and facilitate the transfer and trading of child pornography." CNET News.com provides the following article by Paul Festa giving further information on the attempts to criminally charge ISPs over Usenet content, available on their web site. ISPs may face charges over child porn By Paul Festa Staff Writer, CNET News.com October 30, 1998, 5:35 p.m. PT A few exerpts... As many as five Internet service providers may face serious legal charges for providing access to newsgroups used by child pornographers in cases that critics are calling election-eve politics. New York Attorney General Dennis Vacco won praise this week for his role in an international crackdown on an online child pornography ring. But critics have accused Vacco, up for reelection Tuesday, of breaking the law and playing politics in probing two New York state ISPs as part of the crackdown and seizing their newsgroup servers. Three more ISPs--two on the West Coast and one in the Midwest--are likely to receive search warrants in coming weeks, the attorney general's office told CNET News.com today. ... Law enforcement officials have not arrested or charged anyone affiliated with the ISPs. But the businesses, which provided access to the newsgroups, are under investigation for what Vacco's office describes as the knowing possession of criminal images. "The servers were confiscated as part of ongoing investigation," said Marc Wurzel, spokesman for the attorney general. "The ISPs were in possession of illegal images of children engaged in sex acts. In both cases, they were forewarned that they were in possession of illegal images." The notification came in the form of an email inquiry sent by an undercover agent. The agent posed as a student wanting to know whether he would run afoul of the law by downloading child pornography he had found through the newsgroups. A third New York ISP, located in Albany, responded to the undercover inquiries by suspending the newsgroups. As a result, that ISP is not under investigation, Wurzel said. ... Coincidentally, Congress recently passed the Child Protection and Sexual Predator Punishment Act, which would make ISPs responsible for turning in their customers. Under that legislation, access providers who fail to report child pornography once they are made aware of it could be fined up to $50,000 for the first violation and up to $100,000 for each subsequent time they fail to contact law enforcement authorities. ... Vacco has pulled ahead in what only a few weeks ago was a tight race for reelection. In a New York Times-CBS poll taken in the first week of October, Republican Vacco and Democratic opponent Eliot Spitzer were statistically tied in their race for the state's top law enforcement spot. According to a Times-CBS poll released this week, Vacco is now ahead, 48 percent to 36 percent, with 14 percent of the voters undecided. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From jamesd at echeque.com Sat Oct 31 12:27:59 1998 From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 04:27:59 +0800 Subject: [RRE]The Return of Antimasonism in American Political Life In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199810311958.LAA27763@proxy4.ba.best.com> -- At 10:01 PM 10/30/98 -0500, Robert Hettinga wrote: > I hate to be the one to break this to you, but the United > States is now a country in which a man who believes that > the President is an agent of the Illuminati has a regular > program on public television. This is not quite as deranged as it seems. The Masons are of course not a conspiracy, but one of the services they provide their members is a facility for constructing and operating conspiracies. As a result Masons have been big players on all sides in most revolutions. Conspiratorial political movements are common as weeds. Most of them aim at stealing nothing larger than arts grants, fellowships, and research grants, and are often moderately successful in this endeavor. Some also aim at stealing entire nations. Most of these are not at all successful. No Masonic conspiracies have been successful in this, so far as is known, and the Freemason movement would doubtless disapprove of such excessive ambition and limitless greed. The most famous success in stealing an entire nation was of course Lenin's Bolshevik movement (not a Masonic conspiracy), where Lenin stole a bourgeois revolution by conspiratorial means. However since Lenin's coup bourgeois revolutionaries have been on the alert against communist plots, and the only other success in stealing a bourgeois revolution from the outside was the Sandinistas in Nicaragua, where (due to Violeta's naivete and excessive trustfulness) they stole the revolution that Violeta Chamorro made. The Masons, being explicitly pro bourgeoisie, would steal a bourgeois revolution from the inside, if they ever stole a revolution, which they do not appear to have done. However, being both bourgeois and pro bourgeoisie, if the masons were to steal a bourgeois revolution, it would not be as dramatically visible as it was when the Sandinistas stole the Nicaraguan revolution, and I might well be unaware of it. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG m6fnKPcFhJN/ZGzK/9gIxsmGc/k3Z43gHdDQUkjg 4CZWSrYQlLd1bd2fAiS22I24OvT3hsupgfaM4bRTN ----------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state. http://www.jim.com/jamesd/����� James A. Donald From nobody at replay.com Sat Oct 31 13:52:09 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 05:52:09 +0800 Subject: network computers, web TV, java Message-ID: <199810312112.WAA12569@replay.com> At 01:31 AM 10/31/98 -0800, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote: >hi BLANK >a company has a *reponsibility* to its customers. perhaps >you would care to deny that?? gates has a *responsibility* >to his customers. what is that responsibility? to create >products they want. to anticipate their needs. Wrong from go. The company has a responsibility to its owners, the shareholders typically. The customers are responsible to themselves for making the best purchases. Everything falls out of these. From jf_avon at citenet.net Sat Oct 31 13:53:27 1998 From: jf_avon at citenet.net (Jean-Francois Avon) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 05:53:27 +0800 Subject: Privacy International announces Big Brother awards ( forwarded via CFD V2 # 670) Message-ID: <199810312118.QAA15112@cti06.citenet.net> Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 09:39:33 -0600 From: "Timothy Bloedow" Subject: Privacy International announces Big Brother awards BBC - October 27, 1998 Sci/Tech Watching Big Brother By Internet Correspondent Chris Nuttall The first annual awards defending the individual's right to privacy have been made at a ceremony in London. The 1998 UK Big Brother Awards were held on the 50th anniversary of the writing of George Orwell's novel, Nineteen Eighty-Four. The pressure group Privacy International announced winners it judged to be the modern-day equivalents of Big Brother in the novel, as well as individuals who had fought to protect privacy, awarding them Winstons, the name of the book's hero. Privacy awards to go global The academics, writers and lawyers who make up Privacy International concentrated their first awards on the UK, but plan to extend them to other countries over the next few years. Hosting the awards, the activist comedian Mark Thomas said eight other countries were interested in holding similar ceremonies next year. The director of Privacy International, Simon Davies, said the time was now right for the awards. "Surveillance has now become an inbuilt component of every piece of information technology on the planet, we've got a long way to go to wind the clock back. I think these awards are the beginning of a movement," he said. And the winners are ... The Big Brothers were given for a number of categories: Corporation: The British firm Procurement Services International received a Big Brother award for selling surveillance equipment to Nigeria, Turkey and Indonesia, three countries whose human rights records have been severely criticised. Local government: Newham Council in London won for using its 140 street cameras and facial-recognition software to try to pick out criminals in crowds. National government: The Department of Trade and Industry (DTI) was named a Big Brother over its plans for the police to have access through a third party to the keys to any information sent electronically that was locked by encryption. Product: Software by Harlequin that examines telephone records and is able to compare numbers dialled in order to group users into 'friendship networks' won this category. It avoids the legal requirements needed for phone tapping. Lifetime achievement award: Menwith Hill in Yorkshire, a listening station used by America's National Security Agency and described as the biggest US spy station in the world, won this special award. None of the winners were present to accept their awards. But a video was shown of a receptionist at Newham Council receiving a Big Brother earlier in the day and of several police dragging a Privacy International campaigner out of the DTI's headquarters after he had tried to present it. Winstons were awarded to three individuals, cited for campaigning at Menwith Hill, documenting police surveillance and pursuing a privacy case against a landlord who had installed a two-way mirror in a 19-year-old woman's flat. ? BBC ------------------------------ Jean-Francois Avon, B.Sc. Physics, Montreal, Canada DePompadour, Soci�t� d'Importation Lt�e Limoges fine porcelain and french crystal JFA Technologies, R&D physicists & engineers Instrumentation & control, LabView programming PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C From bob at usa.net Sat Oct 31 15:00:24 1998 From: bob at usa.net (bob at usa.net) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 07:00:24 +0800 Subject: NOW!!!! An Unsecured MASTERCARD/VISA? 100% Guaranteed Approval! Message-ID: <199810312217.OAA06351@toad.com> This is it !!! Get an Unsecured Mastercard or Visa right now. <> with our help. It doesn't matter if you have bad credit, no credit, a bankruptcy, or divorce. Using our quick and unique system will quickly lead you step by step towards having a brand new unsecured Mastercard or Visa mailed to you within a few weeks. All of the banks issuing these credit cards are federally insured. 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We wait for all checks to clear so there will be a 7-14 day delay on your order being processed. Credit cards clear faster than checks but slower than money orders. If you are paying by credit card, all the information must be there for order to be processed! From schear at lvcm.com Sat Oct 31 15:12:11 1998 From: schear at lvcm.com (Steve Schear) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 07:12:11 +0800 Subject: don't use passwords as private keys (was Re: Using a password as a private key.) In-Reply-To: <199810301443.OAA06479@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: >If you're worried about RF noise, you have to assume the CPU or disk >is also radiating enough for the spooks. On the other hand, >that video camera in the ceiling can watch your keystrokes, >but can't watch the CPU. That's when the paranoids worry about >whether the KGB is sneaking in and copying their disk drive at night, >and they start getting encrypted file system software. :-) That's why some recommend that all secret e-mail be composed and encrypted on a laptop while disconected from the AC mains, and better yet operated in an open area (a park) or a place with lots of other electrical noise (a mall). --Steve From tcmay at got.net Sat Oct 31 15:43:58 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 07:43:58 +0800 Subject: [RRE]The Return of Antimasonism in American Political Life In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 11:42 AM -0800 10/31/98, James A. Donald wrote: > -- >At 10:01 PM 10/30/98 -0500, Robert Hettinga wrote: >> I hate to be the one to break this to you, but the United >> States is now a country in which a man who believes that >> the President is an agent of the Illuminati has a regular >> program on public television. > >This is not quite as deranged as it seems. The Masons are of >course not a conspiracy, but one of the services they provide >their members is a facility for constructing and operating >conspiracies. As a result Masons have been big players on >all sides in most revolutions. Masons also had good contacts in what passed for the "intelligence business" back a few hundred or more years ago. In a time when there was not much mobility in Europe, as most folks worked farms or ran small shops, masons were, by their nature, mobile and itinerant construction workers. They moved to where large building projects were happening, then moved on when the cathedral or bridge or whatever was completed. They also needed places to stay when they were in town, so "masonic lodges" developed. Paid for out of dues collected, with facilities then built. (No need for such things today, what with hotels and such, but more needed in, say, 1400.) The Masons who moved around from town to town and who saw a lot and who met with other Masons would have access to lots of intelligence about which kings were planning to expand, about unrest in various areas, etc. Same as the intelligence that village priests collected in the confessionals and then fed back through secure channels to Rome. (Not surprising that the Masons and the Catholics viewed each other with suspicion.) And then there are the Knights Templars, Cathars, Priory of Sion, and all the rest of that stuff. (An entertaining read is "Holy Blood, Holy Grail.") And like many guilds and unions, the flow of knowledge was modulated in various ways (as usual, to benefit the senior memembers, the bureaucrats, the "shop stewards," and with the likely cuts to the local kings and satraps). There was the expected mumbo jumbo about the knowledge going back to the Ancients, to the Pyramid builders (back side of the dollar bill fnord), and secret handshakes (to serve as an indentity credential, as it were). Eventually the Masons learned to increase their revenues by letting in folks who were not actually stoneworkers, and masonry became a professional contact organization. Hence the large number of Masons who signed the Declaration of Independence (to royalist Europe, surely a sign of secularist conspiracy!). And the memetic power of any secret society is such that various revolutionaries, mystics, troublemakers, and such will claim connection to various secret societies, or will recruit from them, etc. Illuminati, Bilderbergers, Bohemian Grove, etc. Besides, the Queen of England almost certainly _is_ a dealer of drugs, as was George Bush and the Boy from Mena. --Tim May Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From jya at pipeline.com Sat Oct 31 16:23:00 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 08:23:00 +0800 Subject: don't use passwords as private keys (was Re: Using a password as a private key.) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981030182933.008baae0@idiom.com> Message-ID: <199810312353.SAA23037@camel7.mindspring.com> Steve Schear wrote: >That's why some recommend that all secret e-mail be composed and encrypted >on a laptop while disconected from the AC mains, and better yet operated in >an open area (a park) or a place with lots of other electrical noise (a >mall). Not to beat an NDA horse but while we're waiting for NSA to process our FOIA request for TEMPEST docs, are there products available to shield a desktop box, or better, a laptop? We're so ignorant of what's allegedly in the classified docs that we're trying to design a glass box with RF glazing materials supplied by a corp that makes it for buildings. It would fit over the box, keyboard and monitor, and should shield them, but leaves cables and power lines to solve, not counting how to get our hands into the keyboard. As an alternative we're looking at a reengineered CAD tablet with puck to select letters and/or words/phrases, or maybe a voice gadget. Yeh, yeh, bugs in the lamp, but one solution at a time. If we get it to work, or at least credibly marketable to people more techno-stupid than we are, following the cryptography model, we figure we'll position it as an upscale decorative hot shit privacy fashion statement, an anti-spy-tech ensemble made of temperature sensitive glass to change thoughout the day or as passions wax and wane with the market and self-image. Retail price: oh, maybe, $25,000 for 100% assured RF protection ("Not Even NSA Can Snoop!) of your secret business communications and sordid affairs, give or take a few leakages that'll never be missed until the mate's PI burgles the crystal. Someone's going to suggest a copper screen sandwiched in pinstriped serge, but how do you see the monitor? Or a Frank Gehry-warped Faraday cage, or god knows what's under the NDA blanket. However, time's running out: when NSA releases those 12 TEMPEST docs next summer that 1000% percent markup on classified TEMPEST products is going down. The market's going to be flooded with certified fakes, ours leading. The brand name's a secret but you'll see it on the ticker. Speaking of promo, we saw last night on the Free Congress site a reference to a report titled "Cyhperpunks v. Cryptocrats: The Battle Over US Encryption Standards," by Lisa S. Dean. We missed that in the past and the site only cites it without a link. Anybody know of it, and how to get it? See: http://www.freecongress.org/ctp/echelon.html From wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org Sat Oct 31 18:41:58 1998 From: wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org (Rabid Wombat) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 10:41:58 +0800 Subject: Orwell In-Reply-To: Message-ID: How does one sieze an ISP? A couple of machines used to forward UseNet traffic were impounded with the cooperation of the service providors. Get your shit straight. On Fri, 30 Oct 1998, Pallas Anonymous Remailer wrote: > Some US ISP's were seized in a cyberporn bust. > > Dreamscape's statement at: > > http://www.dreamscape.com/dream98/statement.htm > > Buffnet's at: > > http://www.buffnet.com/ag/ > > Vacco's at: > > http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/oct98/oct28_98.html > > All three worth reading. This could be a big story. The theory against > the ISPs (not that they've been charged with a crime) is that they > knowingly carried the newsgroups: > > alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.pre-teen > alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.early-teen > > This has broader application -- alt.binaries.warez.*, > alt.binaries.sounds.mp3, etc. > > Is any ISP which carries suspect newsgroups at risk of having > its equiptment seized, and who draws up the blacklist of > newsgroups? > > Or worse, is there no public blacklist at all -- just the > hovering fear of an up-for-reelection AG swooping down. And when > do naughty pictures start showing up in alt.fan.disney? And > what's the AG's move then? > > From billp at nmol.com Sat Oct 31 19:31:25 1998 From: billp at nmol.com (bill payne) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 11:31:25 +0800 Subject: euclid and terrorism Message-ID: <363BC80C.770D@nmol.com> http://sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu/~rpagejr/euclid.html I am into hi-tech stuff. But I studied Lobaschevsky and Reimann. Attached is mirrored at http://www.aci.net/kalliste/bw1 And, I hope I recall correctly from Omar Khayyam ... the moving hand writes, having writ moves on, nor all thy piety or wit can call it back to cancel half a line of it. ... Best - I am not reading e-mail at send address bill Title: Black and White Test of Cryptographic Algorithms Jump to Forum Click Image to Jump to Next Article Go to Text Only Print Version Black and White Test of Cryptographic Algorithms by William H. Payne This article requires special formatting. Please Click Here to Read Send This Article to a Friend: � Your Name: � Email Address of your Friend: � Your Email address: � � � � � Back to Home Page Quick Menu Visit the Button Shop Interactive Forum Black and White Test of Cryptographic Algorithms E-mail the Editor � From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Sat Oct 31 19:52:29 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 11:52:29 +0800 Subject: update.400 (fwd) Message-ID: <199811010336.VAA30076@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 09:24:37 -0500 (EST) > From: physnews at aip.org (AIP listserver) > Subject: update.400 > PROTONS PERSIST for at least 1.6 x 10^33 years. With few > THE CONDUCTANCE OF A SINGLE MOLECULE has been > measured directly by having the molecule bridge the break in a thin > wire. Scientists at Yale use the wire ends as electrodes for sending > current through a small polymer molecule poised between them. > Previously the electrical properties of single molecules had been > studied, but this was through the use of a probe microscope which > samples the molecule across a vacuum gap. Mark Reed (203-432- > 4300, reed at surf.eng.yale.edu) reports that the current-versus-voltage > characteristics of the molecule (important for any potential device > application) resemble those of a quantum dot in that certain electron > energies are preferred over others, in this case because of the internal > energy levels of the molecule itself. (Paper to be presented at the > American Vacuum Society (AVS) meeting in Baltimore, 2-6 > November 1998, website: > http://www.vacuum.org/symposium/program.html) > STACKED ORGANIC LIGHT EMITTING DEVICES (SOLEDs) > produce full color but take up less real estate on a chip than their > planar counterparts which require 3 single-color pixels. This higher > resolution, as well as tunability and good saturation (vivid primary > colors rather than pastels), can now be had with the same voltages > and efficiencies that apply to previous organic displays. Paul > Burrows of Princeton (burrows at ee.princeton.edu) believes > computer-sized flat panel displays using SOLEDs will be available > within a few years. Smaller displays such as for cellphones may be > realized even earlier. (Paper at the AVS meeting.) > NANOCOMPUTERS IN A BOTTLE. UCLA scientist James Heath > and his Hewlett Packard collaborators Stan Williams and Phil Kuekes > hope to grow computers in chemical solution by building up arrays of > atoms or molecules (at first in two-dimensional planes but later in > three-dimensional volumes) linked together with tiny wires, perhaps > eventually carbon nanotubes. Such a computer could be tiny (smaller > than a sand grain), energy efficient (10,000 times more so than current > silicon computers), and capable of new tricks, such as being able to > sense and respond to its environment through chemically activated > switches. Implementing a chemically assembled computer will depend > on a high degree of defect tolerance in the wiring, unlike today's > microprocessors which require wiring perfection. Presently the > UCLA-HP group will be doing rudimentary calculations with a > computer including some components at the nano and others at the > micro level. An all-nano computer performing simple computations, > Heath believes, is a couple of years away. Serious applications would > follow years later. Heath (310-825-2836, heath at chem.ucla.edu) will > report on nanocomputers at the AVS meeting. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From tcmay at got.net Sat Oct 31 20:59:08 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 12:59:08 +0800 Subject: TEMPEST laptops In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 3:44 PM -0800 10/31/98, John Young wrote: >Steve Schear wrote: > >>That's why some recommend that all secret e-mail be composed and encrypted >>on a laptop while disconected from the AC mains, and better yet operated in >>an open area (a park) or a place with lots of other electrical noise (a >>mall). > >Not to beat an NDA horse but while we're waiting for NSA to >process our FOIA request for TEMPEST docs, are there >products available to shield a desktop box, or better, a laptop? I haven't been following this FOIA request for TEMPEST docs. It seems pointless, for several reasons: 1. No doubt a lot of stuff will be classified, and FOIA can't break classification, generally. 2. The physics is what's important, not TEMPEST specs on specfific pieces of equipment the government may be using, etc. 3. Direct tests on current equipment is more important, anyway. >We're so ignorant of what's allegedly in the classified docs >that we're trying to design a glass box with RF glazing materials >supplied by a corp that makes it for buildings. Why would something designed for large-scale structures like buildings be all that useful for shielding a laptop? While it _might_ be useful, there are building tradeoffs that don't apply to shielding smaller objects. Why not just go with copper, for example? Or mu-metal? Or even mesh? >It would fit over >the box, keyboard and monitor, and should shield them, but >leaves cables and power lines to solve, not counting how to get >our hands into the keyboard. As an alternative we're looking at >a reengineered CAD tablet with puck to select letters and/or >words/phrases, or maybe a voice gadget. Yeh, yeh, bugs in >the lamp, but one solution at a time. > I don't know who you're doing this project for, but I would approach it from a different point of view. * Laptop under battery power...no leakage through a.c. lines * inside a copper box made of, say, 10-gauge copper. All joints soldered. * viewing through a kind of viewing hood, with each eye having a couple of layers of mesh close to the eyes...this should not interfere too much with viewing the screen (some experimentation would be needed). * control of keyboard could be done in a couple of ways, e.g., -- flexibible gloves coated with conductive material (the skin depth is likely insufficient to block RF to 80 or so dB, but the combination of attenuation and limited exit diameter (at the wrists) may be sufficient -- a new external keyboard with only fiber-optic connections to the computer, and with no significant local processing, and only low voltages...I would not be surprised if a keyboard with essentially no key-varying RF emissions could be built (operating frequency can of course be very, very low, e.g., a kilohertz or less, and with low voltages, etc.) -- mouse input, if necessary, can be done with optical mice with infrared links (helped along with light pipes). No RF to speak of, though this would have to be characterized in detail. >If we get it to work, or at least credibly marketable to people more >techno-stupid than we are, following the cryptography model, >we figure we'll position it as an upscale decorative hot shit >privacy fashion statement, an anti-spy-tech ensemble made of >temperature sensitive glass to change thoughout the day or as >passions wax and wane with the market and self-image. I'll follow your business plans with interest. Not to sound like a cynic (you all know I am, though), but this kind of "crypto chic" marketing ploy seems doomed to failure. "Privacy fashion statement" indeed. >Retail price: oh, maybe, $25,000 for 100% assured RF protection >("Not Even NSA Can Snoop!) of your secret business communications >and sordid affairs, give or take a few leakages that'll never be missed >until the mate's PI burgles the crystal. What more can I say? > >Someone's going to suggest a copper screen sandwiched in pinstriped >serge, but how do you see the monitor? Or a Frank Gehry-warped >Faraday cage, or god knows what's under the NDA blanket. However, >time's running out: when NSA releases those 12 TEMPEST docs next >summer that 1000% percent markup on classified TEMPEST products >is going down. > >The market's going to be flooded with certified fakes, ours leading. >The brand name's a secret but you'll see it on the ticker. Well, I got trolled, it appears, by one of John Young's coleridged rhymes (and rimes). I wasted my time addressing what I thought 'til the end was a semi-real, if flaky, proposal to market a TEMPESTed computer. How stupid of me. I should know by now never to take John seriously. --Tim May Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments.