From stuffed at stuffed.net Sun Nov 1 01:07:29 1998 From: stuffed at stuffed.net (STUFFED SUN NOV 1) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 01:07:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY! Message-ID: <19981101081000.7984.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com> + 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS + 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES + COMPUTER SLUTS + JACK'S HOUSE OF SLUTS + XXX EXTREME + HOT HUNNYS HARDCORE + HOT PICS + LADY PASSION'S EROTIC HAVEN + EXCESSIVE + PURE XXXCITEMENT + VELVET PALACE + THE TIKI CLUB + BONUS PIC 1 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/30323.htm + BONUS PIC 2 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/11483.htm + BONUS PIC 3 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/609.htm + BONUS PIC 4 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/31873.htm + BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/21230.htm + MUCH, MUCH MORE! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- If you haven't visited STUFFED in the last few days, you're in for a real treat. It's faster than ever before and now, as a subscriber, you get 35 FREE new pics every day, plus over 100 more at carefully selected FREE sites we link to. This email is never sent unsolicited. Stuffed is the supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full instructions on unsubscribing are in every issue of Eureka! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- From ph11627 at yahoo.com Sun Nov 1 14:19:40 1998 From: ph11627 at yahoo.com (ph11627 at yahoo.com) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 14:19:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: about your site Message-ID: <199811012206.OAA13547@toad.com> We'll Submit Your Site To Over 900 Search Engines, Directories, & Indices For A "One Time Cost" Of Only $39.95 *** 100% Money Back Guarantee *** *** Immediately Increase Your Sites Exposure *** For Less Than 4 Cents Each We Will Submit Your Web Site To Over 900 Of The Net's Hottest Search Engines, Directories & Indices. 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Call us toll free at (800) 771-2003 in the USA or Canada or (916) 771-4739 outside the USA and we'll provide you with all the necessary information to get you submitted Right Away... REMOVE INSTRUCTIONS To be removed from our email list, please return this message with the word, "remove" (without quotes) in the subject line. From oriente at capway.com Sun Nov 1 05:05:58 1998 From: oriente at capway.com (Emilio Oriente) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 21:05:58 +0800 Subject: info PGP from France Message-ID: The PGP 6.0 Manual is available in french ----------------------------------------- The User's Guide of the cryptographic application PGP 6.0 (Windows version) has been translated in french by some users from the newgroup fr.misc.cryptologie. The document is in Acrobat PDF format and can be downloaded freely at these URL : http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Bay/9648/intimite.htm and soon mirrored on: http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/oracle/598/intimite.htm PGP 6.0 freeware has been published in USA in the early september by Network Associates, Inc. In spite of the US regulations prohibiting the export of strong cryptography softwares, unknowns have exported PGP 6.0 in Europe by email. The french is at this time the single language in which the PGP 6.0 manual has been translated. In the eyes of the french laws, the use of PGP 6.0 is prohibited on the extent of the french territory. But his holding in France and his importation from a country member of the European Union are perfectly legal. (IMPORTANT : the text of this Manual stays the property of Network Associates Inc. (NAI). NAI has not given his agreement for this translation, which is provided by his authors only temporaly, waiting for an official french version by NAI) From jya at pipeline.com Sun Nov 1 05:14:19 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 21:14:19 +0800 Subject: TEMPEST laptops In-Reply-To: <199810312353.SAA23037@camel7.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <199811011247.HAA19869@dewdrop2.mindspring.com> The rationale of the FOIA to NSA for TEMPEST docs is that due to increased public awareness of that technology, the manufacturers of classified TEMPEST products and services are chomping at the bit to sell them to a broader public market -- as with other dual-use technology like crypto. We were asked to make the FOIA by those who've gotten what they can from the many sources listed at Joel McNamara's TEMPEST site -- which show that the market is growing but is still hampered by classified restrictions: http://www.eskimo.com/~joelm/tempest.htm Yes, it's improbably that NSA will release all the docs requested but perhaps some will be shaken loose, again as with other once classified technology like crypto. In part because of rising public awareness, in part because of manufacturers' desire, in part because NSA will have developed more advanced technology. Tim has heretofore advised on TEMPEST measures and the latest are useful, and correspond to what's available in the commercial market and what is available in mil/gov pubs -- many listed at Joel's site. We are working on our desktop model with a manufacturer who supplies RF-protected glass for government and industry rooms as well as for entire buildings. We figure that if we can make a workable model, we'll be able to use to demonstrate to our clients why TEMPEST protection is needed and how it can be accomplished in an elegant design manner, paralleling demonstrations used by the glass manufacturer to substantiate claims for his products. One of the many things that keeps techies from getting the public's money is being unable to convince the buyer that the invention is truly desirable. Thus comes the marketer, who has skills of invention of another sort to charm the skeptical consumer that this baby has got to be a part of his/her life -- like fancy homes, medical care, insurance cars, clothing, foods, weapons, bibles, and, above all, national security. So a mongerer's brew is needed to peddle these inessentials, composed of seriousness, humor, terror, lies and pretended guilelessness, the practices of anyone doing well or doing badly, indeed, humans going about whatever they do to fill up the void. BTW, the best technology is nearly always going to be classified, with sky high prices paid for by gullible citizens to calm their manufactured terrors (the religion model, once churches and temples now weapons and satellites; once the priest/architect hustle, now that of the the NatSec wonk/scientist), so the commercial market is only going to offer less than the best, the declassified waste products, while selling it as "The Best." So we're seeking the crumbs from the NatSec table. And will use what we get or don't get in our marketing campaign, having learned the immortally favorite scheme: a mix of fact, fiction and fixation on getting people to trust the seller, not the always waste promise. But Tim knows that, practices that like a master, makes bundles. And I always take him seriously, believe everything he says, and admire his deadpan sense of humor more than anything else. Been threatened by him, too, if I don't, all in accord with the NatSec madness of our era. From nobody at replay.com Sun Nov 1 08:16:42 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 00:16:42 +0800 Subject: info PGP from France In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199811011544.QAA25390@replay.com> > The PGP 6.0 Manual is available in french Y'know, I have yet to see a rational (non-marketing-speak) explanation of the advantages of switching to PGP 6.0... PGP 5.x appears to have no advantages over 2.6x, but when Windoze users began to "upgrade" to it, we had to rewrite our mailing list code, as -- of course -- it's mostly incompatible with 2.6x. Its other primary features -- public keys the size of Mack trucks, dog-slow decryption rates, and more complicated key management -- hardly count as advantages. So what's 6.0 got? Total incompatibility with previous versions? 10 MB executables? An additional bloatware serving "on the side"? Pah! It looks as if PGP today has more in common with Micro$oft Turd than the nice little "privacy for the masses" programme Phil wrote. From ac70 at cityscape.co.uk Sun Nov 1 08:38:04 1998 From: ac70 at cityscape.co.uk (Weekly Update) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 00:38:04 +0800 Subject: You have been added to Weekly Update Message-ID: <909936171.25805.qmail@ech> The owner of this list has moved it to ListBot. If you don't think you should be on this list, please send a message to f-1E5791606D4C7F28 at listbot.com The list owner has included the following welcome message: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR REGISTER WEEKLY UPDATE SUBSCRIBERS Dear Reader, Some time ago you asked to receive a weekly update of stories in The Register. Earlier this year The Register switched to continuous publication, and introduced a second mailing list for people wishing to receive daily story updates. Although we have been maintaining both lists, the mechanism is cumbersome, and we have now decided to merge them. This will take place in the next two weeks, after which you should receive notification of 15-20 stories a day. Should this not be acceptable, please mail reg at lettice.demon.co.uk a message with the heading UNSUBSCRIBE Should you be happy with this, no action on your part is required. Note that daily updates will not commence on this list for two weeks. Note also that although it will be possible to use the Listbot button on The Register front page to unsubscribe once the lists are merged, you cannot do so yet. If you wish to unsubscribe at the moment, mail reg at lettice.demon.co.uk as detailed above. Thank you for your support. ----------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent via ListBot. To remove yourself from this list, please visit http://www.listbot.com/remove.html ----------------------------------------------------------------- From stuffed at stuffed.net Mon Nov 2 01:14:06 1998 From: stuffed at stuffed.net (STUFFED MON NOV 2) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 01:14:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY! 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MegaSites 240 Union Ave Suite 5 Campbell CA 95008 USA (408) 378-9996 From tcmay at got.net Sun Nov 1 10:28:45 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 02:28:45 +0800 Subject: TEMPEST laptops In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 4:38 AM -0800 11/1/98, John Young wrote: >Tim has heretofore advised on TEMPEST measures and the >latest are useful, and correspond to what's available in the >commercial market and what is available in mil/gov pubs -- >many listed at Joel's site. > Understand that my comments are just some "common sense with a little bit of physics" estimates, not direct knowledge of how best to shield laptops. I worked inside a Faraday cage for several months--a cube about 12 feet on a side made up of two layers of fine copper mesh separated by about 2 inches. We used ordinary radios to check the seal. We entered the room with the radio on, closed the copper-gasketed door and then checked the AM and FM bands with the volume cranked up. If all was well, we didn't even get "static," just the characteristic internal/thermal/Johnson noise of the radio circuitry. (We were looking for signals from a Josephson junction in SQUID (superconducting quantum-interferometric device) that were very, very weak compared to ambient radio noise levels. We used a Princeton Applied Research 124 lock-in amplifier and a boxcar amplifier. I surmise that the effective shielding was very good. This was in 1972-3.) Later, at Intel, a lab right next to mine had a Faraday cage around it. Anyway, were I to try to shield a laptop I'd start with microwave leakage meters, a couple of t.v.s and radio (of different types and bands), and then I'd start recording signal levels of various sorts as different shielding layers and types were applied to the laptop(s). Simple lab stuff. I'd do this in preference to worrying about what some 1978 government docs had to say about the subject. TEMPEST the specs are probably a mixture of "RF shielding" tips and standards, and a mix of Van Eck radiation tuner designs. >We are working on our desktop model with a manufacturer >who supplies RF-protected glass for government and industry >rooms as well as for entire buildings. We figure that if we can >make a workable model, we'll be able to use to demonstrate >to our clients why TEMPEST protection is needed and how it >can be accomplished in an elegant design manner, paralleling >demonstrations used by the glass manufacturer to substantiate >claims for his products. Suggestion: Read the client's laptop when he's visiting. Then show him your stuff. (This means you've built a working Van Eck decoder, which may be too much to expect, per the above about concentrating on blocking the RF.) > >One of the many things that keeps techies from getting the public's >money is being unable to convince the buyer that the invention >is truly desirable. Thus comes the marketer, who has skills of >invention of another sort to charm the skeptical consumer that >this baby has got to be a part of his/her life -- like fancy homes, >medical care, insurance cars, clothing, foods, weapons, bibles, >and, above all, national security. Look, let me put this bluntly: VERY FEW PEOPLE CARE ABOUT SECURITY. Most businessmen are not even using PGP. Why will any of them pay a lot of extra money for something that makes their laptops look like gargoyles or pieces of shit? (This is for the travelling businessmen threat model. The corporate network threat model is even more problematic, as it means the corporation needs to TEMPEST-protect some large fraction of their desktop machines, with any unprotected machines being the weak links. I don't understand which threat model you're concentrating on, though.) And your next paragraphs tell me you have even less chance of sellling your product to corporate America: >So a mongerer's brew is needed to peddle these inessentials, >composed of seriousness, humor, terror, lies and pretended >guilelessness, the practices of anyone doing well or doing badly, > >indeed, humans going about whatever they do to fill up the void. >BTW, the best technology is nearly always going to be classified, >with sky high prices paid for by gullible citizens to calm their >manufactured terrors (the religion model, once churches and temples >now weapons and satellites; once the priest/architect hustle, now >that of the the NatSec wonk/scientist), so the commercial market is >only going to offer less than the best, the declassified waste products, >while selling it as "The Best." ?????? Is this a diagnosed medical condition, like Tourette's? You start out communicating reasonably clearly, then, as usual, trail off into this gobbledegook. Pynchon's Syndrome? --Tim May Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From die at die.com Sun Nov 1 13:14:26 1998 From: die at die.com (Dave Emery) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 05:14:26 +0800 Subject: TEMPEST laptops In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <19981101152627.C29091@die.com> On Sun, Nov 01, 1998 at 09:53:37AM -0800, Tim May wrote: > > Anyway, were I to try to shield a laptop I'd start with microwave leakage > meters, a couple of t.v.s and radio (of different types and bands), and > then I'd start recording signal levels of various sorts as different > shielding layers and types were applied to the laptop(s). Simple lab stuff. > As someone who has actually spent hellish weeks working to suppress the RF emissions of some commericial network gear I designed - to make it pass FCC B and VDE certification - let me say this is a black art and no fun. There are sophisticated electromagnetics programs that can sometimes succeed in modeling the radiation from a computer system, but they are very expensive and inputting all the required information is painful or downright impossible (data just not available or in a usable format), so this nasty job usually gets done seat of the pants style using rules of thumb and educated guesses and hard won experiance and lots of trial and error. The job consists of attaching lossy ferrite beads, copper tape and other RF and common mode current supressing devices, shielding plastic packages with spray metallic coatings, adding screws and other fasteners to bond stuff together better, changing grounding around within the box to put RF currents in places they don't get to the outside of the package, use of ICs that switch more softly, adding filters to connectors for external cables, changing layout of PC boards to better shield hot traces, changing the shape of the metal chassis to act as a better shield and ground plane and so forth. And unless one has access to the best modeling programs, predicting exactly what a given change will do is a really obscure art... Nobody does this using ordinary radios and TVs, the standard tool is a broadband spectrum analyzer or special EMC receiver with quasipeak filters and special calibrated wideband dipole antennas that have known gain and pattern characteristics. Isolating of radiating sites is often done with near field probes or sniffers attached to the spectrum analyzer that allow hot spots to be tracked to within a few cm. Often in order to get enough sensitivity one also needs special preamps, and a RF quiet site where signals from the DUT aren't drowned out by pagers and cellphones and emissions from nearby computers. A good bit of this work is done way out in the country under non-metallic fiberglass buildings that don't create reflections that confuse the measurements. And conducted as opposed to radiated noise is measured with special power line filters and cable filters... The magic of the NSA TEMPEST specs lies in exactly how much certain emissions must be suppressed to lie below useful detectablity thresholds at some reasonable distance. And much of the classified trickery resides in exactly what sorts of things have been shown to carry useable information and at what field strength that information can be extracted and under what conditions it is not usable. And because of the repetitious nature of many information bearing spurious emanations, there is some signficant emphasis on corellation and averaging out noise techniques... -- Dave Emery N1PRE, die at die.com DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2 5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18 From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Sun Nov 1 13:38:40 1998 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 05:38:40 +0800 Subject: info PGP from France In-Reply-To: <199811011544.QAA25390@replay.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Nov 1998, Anonymous wrote: > > > The PGP 6.0 Manual is available in french > > Y'know, I have yet to see a rational (non-marketing-speak) explanation > of the advantages of switching to PGP 6.0... You should read Cypherpunks more regularly. This is what I posted in the past: Quick PGP 6 eval =============== Long desired features: o Designated revokers (If you are incapacitated/incarcerated). o Secret shared keys (A must for corporate root keys). Gimmick: o You can attach a photo to your key. Still not there: o Ability to revoke individual user ID's on a key. -- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. From newscaster at hampton.net Mon Nov 2 06:31:15 1998 From: newscaster at hampton.net (newscaster at hampton.net) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 06:31:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199811021431.GAA20705@toad.com> 11/02/98 Y2K Solution! 8 Pine Circle Dr., Silicon Valley, Calif. USA OTC Company "TCFG" 21 st. Century Frontier Group has through several members of their administrative research department leaked vital information about their companies efforts. Everyone was tight lipped and interviews were refused, and through un-named sources we have learned that the technology and software solution are in the process of being patented! In over 1640 trials, using various data systems the use of the new technology and software solved the Y2K problem 100% of the time. This small publicly traded company "TCFG" which is just 3 years old is through various sources now negotiating with the "Big Boys"! "TCFG" the letters to look for... From bill.stewart at pobox.com Sun Nov 1 14:57:53 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 06:57:53 +0800 Subject: Kong Re: Using a password as a private key. In-Reply-To: <199810291821.TAA03804@replay.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981101134444.008adae0@idiom.com> (James - bug report below.) At 07:21 PM 10/29/98 +0100, Anonymous wrote: >What happens if you create another key which signs an existing message, >as was illustrated here recently in the case of Toto's key. Can you >convince Kong that you are the same person who sent the earlier message? No, you can't. I've got some sample Kong documents below. (Be sure to get the US version of Kong from http://catalog.com/jamesd/kong/ rather than the somewhat older version from replay (which you get if you tell James's page you're not a US/Canadian citizen. Some UnAmerican should hack their way through James's protection and update replay's version.)) If you check the signature on a document identical to one you've already got stored, it'll tell you about it, and list all the usernames that have signed that document. When you try to store a second key with the same name as an existing key, it'll tell you that they're different, and let you add a note to the new one. (Unfortunately, it doesn't also let you add a note to the first one; a nice feature change would be to always ask for notation when receiving a new key.) (It's a bit hard to test on one machine, since you tend to step over yourself in the process, but it should work fine in a clean environment, and Kong is very tolerant of having its Kong.mdb file blown away and doesn't even mind some editing using MS Access, though YMMV.) Signed by one key calling itself t3 - note the +Q in the first line -- It's a fnord! Run for your life! --digsig t3 +Q+XF9EiiOOGFa6rYr5QtU2My14/KyO01DHLikYDVv Fy1GfdEmmV07XfX9R3HEOc/BA+ajNa8/MRqDBhE1 4eLHEngilBC2g81hloGGQFmOYd35vQEHKGtBcb4F9 Signed by a different key calling itself t3 - note the H9 in the first line -- It's a different fnord! --digsig t3 H9/V3rBrv7Ha3g0Z1/ywvbHimgezshgcTzSYJxbS4z nCRf3S7brCpkLPzUD+dSFcErPNB+SdrF0q46TZnH 4YHfVOu6q+51iKrRc3ru63qk1wWCR2uR3wCALQRjs Same document as before, signed by the H9 t3 -- It's a fnord! Run for your life! --digsig t3 H9/V3rBrv7Ha3g0Z1/ywvbHimgezshgcTzSYJxbS4z z662iY5op2nMkXrI7nP4A5ehgvaoB5+q5daHbHgl 4NmZf3tZdVcZObpUmovyAeDBMZr1W9t5lDICMJc8b Kong lets you sign a document in different modes - in one mode, the document can't be modified after signing, and in other modes you can change whitespace or linebreaks, making it more tolerant of different email environments. -- This message didn't have any line breaks, and it's in Text mode. --digsig t3 H9/V3rBrv7Ha3g0Z1/ywvbHimgezshgcTzSYJxbS4z aAGTQyJ92R6XeoH7ZTepQ0f79xKddgm+bsIfLckn 4+WLznhaXWAf7fX0yay4Ajq6Bg+AGQo0T8r8aWbJ2 -- This message didn't have any line breaks, and it's in Strict mode, so this should fail. --digsig t3 H9/V3rBrv7Ha3g0Z1/ywvbHimgezshgcTzSYJxbS4z /6YbckVZQdSNbu4DSbrIjXRmu2wU8IiiXP3LnyUn 2I/gQ5Uq5+42xQYfLxCbDM+YwowNgkBFXlfPvfIYK By the way, you don't want to hit the "view" button after checking this one - you'll get Run-Time Error 3021 - No current Record and then Kong dies. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From bill.stewart at pobox.com Sun Nov 1 14:57:53 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 06:57:53 +0800 Subject: TEMPEST laptops In-Reply-To: <199810312353.SAA23037@camel7.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981101142536.008aee30@idiom.com> At 08:19 PM 10/31/98 -0800, Tim May wrote: >At 3:44 PM -0800 10/31/98, John Young wrote: > > Not to beat an NDA horse but while we're waiting for NSA to > > process our FOIA request for TEMPEST docs, are there > > products available to shield a desktop box, or better, a laptop? >I haven't been following this FOIA request for TEMPEST docs. It seems >pointless, for several reasons: >1. No doubt a lot of stuff will be classified, and FOIA can't break >classification, generally. Yup. Most of it's SECRET COMSEC or CONFIDENTIAL COMSEC. The parts I'm aware of cover making equipment not radiate, blocking radiation that does occur, and making sure signals don't leak between the red and black sides. There's presumably much more secret documentation at NSA about how to spy on stuff, and there's no way you'll get any of that. >2. The physics is what's important, not TEMPEST specs on specific pieces >of equipment the government may be using, etc. That too. TEMPEST, like other security problems, depends a lot on your threat models - you need a lot quieter equipment if there's an NSA Antenna Van parked in your driveway than if you're out in an empty field with nobody around for miles. What the equipment specs tell you is what the military thinks is adequate protection for typical threat environments, such as defense contractor office buildings or low-tech battlefields. The last time I checked, which was 8-10 years ago, there was a lot of TEMPEST-certified equipment on the market, though many of the vendors would only sell to the government and businesses working on TEMPEST-requiring government contracts. The main things on the market back then were - Room/building enclosure technology, so you could put lots of regular computer equipment in a big shielded room. This includes heavy-duty filtering of power supplies; our equipment was quite happy with it's nice clean power feeds. - Shielded minicomputers - basically stuck in rack-sized versions of room enclosures, with fiber-optic comm lines or shielded cables. - Quiet PCs, which generally had heavier metal cases, shielded cables, rather heavy keyboards, and lots of shielding in the monitors. They tended to cost about $5000 more than the equivalent non-TEMPEST PC. I don't know how the market is today, but it's probably a LOT more work to quiet and/or shield a 400MHz Pentium2 than a 4.77Mhz 8086 - higher frequency signals have shorter wavelengths, so they can leak through smaller holes, and the newer Pentiums probably put out a lot more energy above 3GHz than 8086s did, which means that centimeter-long cracks can leak signals. At the time, the rule of thumb for room shielding was that you wanted 100dB attenuation; the actual specs were more complex than that, and presumably classified. We did our routine measurements using a 450MHz transmitter, which would let us find any leaks that evolved from wear&tear on our doors or wiring mistakes on our comm or power gear (like forgetting to screw some lid on tight enough), but the TEMPEST contractors did the official complex measurements. This was a significant change from Vietnam-era shielding, which was typically copper mesh that provided 60dB attenuation Just using a regular laptop isn't enough; I've seen laptops transmit recognizable images to a television (though I was probably using AC power rather than batteries, and may or may not have had the display mode set to LCD-and-monitor.) Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From rah at shipwright.com Sun Nov 1 15:34:48 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 07:34:48 +0800 Subject: H-WEB: De Long on Scott, Planning & Hayek Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 01:37:43 EST Reply-To: Hayek Related Research Sender: Hayek Related Research From: Hayek-L List Host Subject: H-WEB: De Long on Scott, Planning & Hayek To: HAYEK-L at MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU Status: U >> Hayek On The Web << -- Modernism / Government Planning J. Bradford De Long, "Not Seeing One's Intellectual Parents" On the Web at: http://econ161.berkeley.edu/Econ_Articles/Reviews/Seeing_Like_a_State.html >From the review: "There is a lot that is excellent in James Scott's _Seeing Like a State_. It begins with a romp through eighteenth- and nineteenth-century German forestry--and the failure of the foresters to understand the ecology of the forests that they were trying to manage. It continues with a brief digression on how states tried to gain control of their populations through maps, boulevards, and names. These are prequels to a vicious and effective critique of what Scott calls "high modernism": the belief that the planner--whether Le Corbusier designing a city, Vladimir Lenin designing a planned economy, or Julius Nyerere "villagizing" the people of Tanzania--knows best, and can move humans and their lives around on as if on a chessboard to create utopia. Then the focus appears to waiver. There is a chapter on agriculture in developing economies that characterizes agricultural extension efforts from the first to the third world as analogous to Lenin's nationalization of industry, or Nyerere's forced resettlement of Tanzanians. But the targets -- the agricultural extenders who dismiss established practices -- lose solidity and become shadows. They are no longer living, breathing, powerful rulers,; instead they are the "credo of American agriculture," the "catechism of high- modernist agriculture," the "high-modernist aesthetic and ideology of most colonial trained agronomists and their Western-trained successors" -- truly straw men. The conclusion is a call for social systems that recognize the importance of what Scott calls "metis": a Greek word for the practical knowledge that a skilled and experienced worker has of his craft. Most such practical knowledge cannot be easily summarized and simple rules, and much of it remains implicit: the devil is in the details. T he key fault of "high modernism," as Scott understands it, is its belief that details don't matter -- that planners can decree from on high, people obey, and utopia result. Well before the end of the book an economist is struck by a strong sense of deja vu. Scott's declarations of the importance of the detailed practical knowledge possessed by the person-on-the-spot -- of how such knowledge cannot be transmitted up any hierarchy to those-in-charge in a way to do any good--of how the locus of decision-making must remain with those who have the craft to understand the situation--of how any system that functions at all must create and maintain a space in which there is sufficient flexibility for craftsmen to exercise their metis (even if the hierarchs of the system pretend not to notice this flexibility)--all of these strike an economist as very, very familiar. All of these seem familiar to economists because they are the points made by Ludwig von Mises (1920) and Friedrich Hayek (1937) and the other Austrian economists in their pre-World War II debate with socialists over the possibility of central planning. Hayek's adversaries--Oskar Lange and company--argued that a market system had to be inferior to a centrally-planned system: at the very least, a centrally-planned economy could set up internal decision-making procedures that would mimic the market, and the central planners could also adjust things to increase social welfare and account for external effects in a way that a market system could never do. Hayek, in response, argued that the functionaries of a central-planning board could never succeed, because they could never create both the incentives and the flexibility for the people-on-the-spot to exercise what Scott calls metis. Today all economists--even those who are very hostile to Hayek's other arguments (that government regulation of the money supply lies at the root of the business cycle, that political attempts to reduce inequalities in the distribution of income lead to totalitarianism, that the competitive market is the "natural spontaneous order" of human society) -- agree that Hayek and company hit this particular nail squarely on the head. Looking back at the seventy-year trajectory of Communism, it seems very clear that Hayek (and Scott) are right: that its principal flaw is its attempt to concentrate knowledge, authority, and decision-making power at the center rather than pushing the power to act, the freedom to do so, and the incentive to act productively out to the periphery where the people-on-the-spot have the local knowledge to act effectively. In short, by the end of his book James Scott has argued himself into the intellectual positions adopted by Friedrich Hayek back before World War II. Yet throughout the book Scott appears to be ignorant that the intellectual terrain which he has reached has already been well-explored. This is quite distressing ... " J. Bradford De Long, "Not Seeing One's Intellectual Parents". Review of James Scott (1998), _Seeing Like a State: How Certain Schemes to Improve the Human Condition Have Failed_. (New Haven: Yale University Press). 7/4/1998 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- References Peter Boettke (1990), The Political Economy of Soviet Socialism (Boston: Kluwer Academic Publishers: 0792391004). Friedrich Hayek, ed. (1935), Collectivist Economic Planning: Critical Studies on the Possibility of Socialism (London: Routledge: 0678007659). Friedrich Hayek (1937), "Economics and Knowledge," Economica 4, pp. 33-54. Friedrich Hayek (1945), "The Use of Knowledge in Society," American Economic Review 35, pp. 519-30. Frank Knight (1936), "The Place of Marginal Economics in a Collectivist System," American Economic Review 26:2, pp. 255-6. Abba Lerner (1934), "Economic Theory and Socialist Economy," Review of Economic Studies 2, pp. 51-61. James Scott (1998), Seeing Like a State: How Certain Schemes to Improve the Human Condition Have Failed (New Haven: Yale University Press: 0300070160). Ludwig von Mises (1920), "Die Wirtschaftsrechnung im sozialistischen Gemeinwesen," Archiv fur Sozialwissenschaften und Sozialpolitik 47:1, pp. 86-121." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Professor of Economics J. Bradford De Long, 601 Evans Hall, #3880 University of California at Berkeley Berkeley, CA 94720-3880 (510) 643-4027 phone (510) 642-6615 fax delong at econ.berkeley.edu http://econ161.berkeley.edu/ Hayek On The Web is a regular feature of the Hayek-L list. --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From bettyrubble at 3253137429 Mon Nov 2 08:37:24 1998 From: bettyrubble at 3253137429 (bettyrubble at 3253137429) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 08:37:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: Attract Women &/or Men (and keep them)! Message-ID: <199811021637.IAA21504@toad.com> BOOST YOUR SEX APPEAL AND CHANGE YOUR SOCIAL AND SEX LIFE FOREVER. SCIENCE AND NATURE'S SEXUAL SECRET WEAPON! 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From jya at pipeline.com Sun Nov 1 17:52:15 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 09:52:15 +0800 Subject: NOT the Orange Book Message-ID: <199811020104.UAA18004@camel8.mindspring.com> Paul Merrill, the author of "NOT the Orange Book," has provided a digital version of his "Guide to the Definition, Specification, Tasking, and Documentation for the Development of Secure Computer Systems -- Including Condensations of the Members of the Rainbow Series and Related Documents:" http://jya.com/ntob.htm (385K) Zipped: http://jya.com/ntob.zip (92K) This is Paul's 1992 manual prepared while working for DoD to evaluate and purchase secure computer systems, for ADP, C4I and weapons, and to compensate for the shortcomings of the official regulations. It's still widely used, Paul says, for the unending conflict between DoD, NSA, DIA and defense contractors about how to develop and assure computer security from lab rat pipedream to the warfighter's "wha's this piece of shit." Section IV, Case Studies, is a wonder at describing what to do when perfect design goes to hell in the field, and a pissed warrior who's comm's been compromised got a K-Bar sawing your apple, roaring "tech support, now!" From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Sun Nov 1 18:01:42 1998 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:01:42 +0800 Subject: TEMPEST laptops In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981101142536.008aee30@idiom.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Nov 1998, Bill Stewart wrote: [...] > Just using a regular laptop isn't enough; I've seen laptops > transmit recognizable images to a television (though I was probably > using AC power rather than batteries, and may or may not have had > the display mode set to LCD-and-monitor.) Thanks for touching on the popuar myth that laptops radiate less than CRT's. Many laptops in fact radiate more compromising emissions than CRT's. Ross Anderson does his van Eck demos to undergrads using a laptop, because it works so much better than CRT's. -- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. From PHM at sprynet.com Sun Nov 1 18:13:33 1998 From: PHM at sprynet.com (Paul H. Merrill) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:13:33 +0800 Subject: NOT the Orange Book In-Reply-To: <199811020104.UAA18004@camel8.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <363D3654.AA1AF05E@sprynet.com> While I perhaps would not have phrased things in quite the same colorful manner, John Youngs commentary here is substantially correct. The intent however was to hellp the developers develop systems that would preclude the need for K-Bars. PHM John Young wrote: > > Paul Merrill, the author of "NOT the Orange Book," has > provided a digital version of his "Guide to the Definition, > Specification, Tasking, and Documentation for the > Development of Secure Computer Systems -- Including > Condensations of the Members of the Rainbow Series > and Related Documents:" > > http://jya.com/ntob.htm (385K) > > Zipped: > > http://jya.com/ntob.zip (92K) > > This is Paul's 1992 manual prepared while working for > DoD to evaluate and purchase secure computer systems, > for ADP, C4I and weapons, and to compensate for the > shortcomings of the official regulations. > > It's still widely used, Paul says, for the unending conflict > between DoD, NSA, DIA and defense contractors about > how to develop and assure computer security from lab rat > pipedream to the warfighter's "wha's this piece of shit." > > Section IV, Case Studies, is a wonder at describing what > to do when perfect design goes to hell in the field, and a > pissed warrior who's comm's been compromised got a > K-Bar sawing your apple, roaring "tech support, now!" From apf2 at ctv.es Sun Nov 1 18:32:23 1998 From: apf2 at ctv.es (Albert P. Franco, II) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:32:23 +0800 Subject: UK police chase crooks on CCTV (fwd) Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981031204048.0088de80@pop.ctv.es> Snipped down to DCF's response... >My point is not that we shouldn't grab them it's that the "Human Rights >Community" is politically discriminatory and wouldn't think of going after >commies. > Since I live in Spain, I am privy to a side of the story that doesn't seem to get much air outside of Spain. (At least not that I've seen) In Spain, Spain is the protagonist in this issue--not the "Human Rights Community". It may be that they accept any help they may get from these folks, but the main push is from the families of Spanish citizens murdered by Pinochet. He not only killed his "countrymen" but also foreign nationals. Spain will try him for the murders of Spaniards NOT Argentineans, Brazilians, Americans, or any other nationality. >From inside Spain this issue doesn't seem nearly as global as the international community portrays it. I guess it's kind of like a certain African nation wanting to try a certain western hemisphere president for the deaths of some factory workers... Or perhaps in a small way a refutation of the international norm that protects rulers from the otherwise natural consequence of their actions. APF From tcmay at got.net Sun Nov 1 18:39:27 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:39:27 +0800 Subject: TEMPEST laptops In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 12:26 PM -0800 11/1/98, Dave Emery wrote: >On Sun, Nov 01, 1998 at 09:53:37AM -0800, Tim May wrote: >> >> Anyway, were I to try to shield a laptop I'd start with microwave leakage >> meters, a couple of t.v.s and radio (of different types and bands), and >> then I'd start recording signal levels of various sorts as different >> shielding layers and types were applied to the laptop(s). Simple lab stuff. >> > > As someone who has actually spent hellish weeks working to >suppress the RF emissions of some commericial network gear I designed - >to make it pass FCC B and VDE certification - let me say this is a black >art and no fun. There are sophisticated electromagnetics programs that >can sometimes succeed in modeling the radiation from a computer system, >but they are very expensive and inputting all the required information >is painful or downright impossible (data just not available or in a >usable format), so this nasty job usually gets done seat of the pants >style using rules of thumb and educated guesses and hard won experiance >and lots of trial and error. The job consists of attaching lossy >ferrite beads, copper tape and other RF and common mode current supressing >devices, shielding plastic packages with spray metallic coatings, adding ... All good points, but there's a big difference between trying to meet FCC emissions requirements for a commercial product that has to meet cost, weight, and cosmetic requirements (e.g., a plastic case!), and the scenario of making a TEMPEST-like box for a laptop. Ferrite beads and copper tape are a lot different from a sealed box made of 10-gauge copper sheet. > Nobody does this using ordinary radios and TVs, the standard >tool is a broadband spectrum analyzer or special EMC receiver with >quasipeak filters and special calibrated wideband dipole antennas that >have known gain and pattern characteristics. Isolating of radiating >sites is often done with near field probes or sniffers attached to the >spectrum analyzer that allow hot spots to be tracked to within a few cm. >Often in order to get enough sensitivity one also needs special >preamps, and a RF quiet site where signals from the DUT aren't drowned >out by pagers and cellphones and emissions from nearby computers. A >good bit of this work is done way out in the country under non-metallic >fiberglass buildings that don't create reflections that confuse the >measurements. And conducted as opposed to radiated noise is measured >with special power line filters and cable filters... Sure, but my point was that John Young should *at least* start with actual measurements, as opposed to putting most of the onus on a FOIA request to get TEMPEST docs declassified. If he can get spectrum analyzers and all that stuff, so much the better. --Tim May Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From nations at freeyellow.com Mon Nov 2 10:42:28 1998 From: nations at freeyellow.com (nations at freeyellow.com) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:42:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199811021842.KAA22458@toad.com> 11/02/98 Y2K Solution! 8 Pine Circle Dr., Silicon Valley, Calif. USA OTC Company "TCFG" 21 st. Century Frontier Group has through several members of their administrative research department leaked vital information about their companies efforts. Everyone was tight lipped and interviews were refused, and through un-named sources we have learned that the technology and software solution are in the process of being patented! In over 1640 trials, using various data systems the use of the new technology and software solved the Y2K problem 100% of the time. This small publicly traded company "TCFG" which is just 3 years old is through various sources now negotiating with the "Big Boys"! "TCFG" the letters to look for..... From secret_squirrel at nym.alias.net Sun Nov 1 19:02:16 1998 From: secret_squirrel at nym.alias.net (Secret Squirrel) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 11:02:16 +0800 Subject: Hacktivists Message-ID: <3cf9668e2576c48ac6aa50e9297fd2a3@anonymous> "HACKTIVISTS" SAY: "THE REVOLUTION WILL BE DIGITIZED" Two political activists in New York, of cofounders of the Electronic Disturbance Theater, are organizing "virtual sit-ins" and recruiting programmers to attack the Web sites of persons or organizations they believe responsible for oppression. "We see this as a form of electronic civil obedience," says Stefan Wray, one of the two leaders of this effort. National Information Protection Agency chief Michael Vatis says, "I wouldn't characterize vandalizing Web sites as cyber-terrorism, but the only responsible assumption we can make is that there's more going on that we don't know about." Some activists agree with that assessment, but for different reasons; they think such methods are unproductive because they will antagonize the general public. (New York Times 31 Oct 98) From tcmay at got.net Mon Nov 2 07:15:39 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 23:15:39 +0800 Subject: Computers as instruments of liberation Message-ID: "Wired News" carried an article reporting on a plan to (somehow) spread computers around the world, blah blah, and quoting John Gage at Sun on how this would promote peace. A couple of paragraphs have Cypherpunks resonances" --begin excerpt-- Conference tackles ``techno-inequality'' By Judy DeMocker SAN FRANCISCO (Wired) - When US farmers can call their cows home individually using animal pagers, but the average teenager in Burkina Faso has never made a ..... Wiring developing nations could have some far-reaching consequences. One might be that computer-based communications would be used to keep the peace, according Net Day co-founder John Gage, who works by day as Sun Microsystems' chief scientist. When content from The New York Times can be translated into 30 Arab dialects, for example, or when a remote Rawandan village has access to more perspectives than the local magistrate, the Internet may become an instrument in preventing violence. ``The Web gives people access to other voices, and instant access to speaking about how the world really is,'' said Gage. ''If people can get that, maybe that band of villagers will think twice before going down the road and killing its neighbors.'' --end excerpt-- Fatuous nonsense. After all, those folks down the road may be taxing them, and may need killing. Or those folks may use computer networks to connect to others for the purposes of liberation. I see computer networks as promoting secessionism, freedom fighting, and resistance in general. The New World Order, the One Worlders, see this as "terrorism." Which is why strong encryption is needed. Which is why "they" oppose strong encryption. John Gage has a typically Fabian socialist view that somehow computerization will lead to an orderly, peaceful world. Me, I view networks as the key to retribution and justice. --Tim May Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From tcmay at got.net Mon Nov 2 07:15:49 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 23:15:49 +0800 Subject: TEMPEST laptops In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981101142536.008aee30@idiom.com> Message-ID: At 5:32 PM -0800 11/1/98, Lucky Green wrote: >On Sun, 1 Nov 1998, Bill Stewart wrote: >[...] >> Just using a regular laptop isn't enough; I've seen laptops >> transmit recognizable images to a television (though I was probably >> using AC power rather than batteries, and may or may not have had >> the display mode set to LCD-and-monitor.) > >Thanks for touching on the popuar myth that laptops radiate less than >CRT's. Many laptops in fact radiate more compromising emissions than >CRT's. Ross Anderson does his van Eck demos to undergrads using a laptop, >because it works so much better than CRT's. But laptops are certainly smaller than desktops + monitors are, and can be run off of batteries. This makes laptops better candidates for a sealed box commercial product. --Tim May Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From brownrk1 at texaco.com Mon Nov 2 07:16:04 1998 From: brownrk1 at texaco.com (Brown, R Ken) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 23:16:04 +0800 Subject: 4 Horseman not so bad.. Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F8553@MSX11002> I wrote: >>> but some peope are scared of > >>> drugs/paedophiles/terrorists etc, so thats the way in for the > jackboots. > >>> To oppose it we need to reduce fear. > Chip wrote: >>Thats the most interesting POV I've ever heard >>of in these discussions, seems like for the most part, >>we counter fear arguments with other fear arguments, >>Never saw this before. Bears more examination. Anon wrote: > Right. The new Happy Net campaign. > Druggies.. why, they're friendly enough to > be elected officials in such peaks of civilization as > D.C. and L.A. And the more successful recreational > pharmaceutical merchants are luxury-car and mobile > telecomm early adopters! London is full of spy cameras (mostly owned by banks and large corporations, pointing out from their windows and doors) Nobody much objects to the invasion of privacy. Why? Because lots of them are scared of the streets. If they knew the actual chance of getting robbed or beaten up they probably wouldn't be so scared. From jf_avon at citenet.net Mon Nov 2 07:23:11 1998 From: jf_avon at citenet.net (Jean-Francois Avon) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 23:23:11 +0800 Subject: [humor] Testing software Message-ID: <199811020422.XAA11460@cti06.citenet.net> A friend of mine sent me the following: We are in the process of testing the new piece of software we designed: > AGGRESSION TESTING: If this doesn't work, I'm gonna kill somebody. > > COMPRESSION TESTING: [] > > CONFESSION TESTING: Okay, Okay, I did program that bug. > > CONGRESSIONAL TESTING: Are you now, or have you ever been a bug? > > DEPRESSION TESTING: If this doesn't work, I'm gonna kill myself. > > EGRESSION TESTING: Uh-oh, a bug... I'm outta here. > > DIGRESSION TESTING: Well, it works, but can I tell you about my truck... > > EXPRESSION TESTING: #@%^&*!!!, a bug. > > OBSESSION TESTING: I'll find this bug if it's the last thing I do. > > OPPRESSION TESTING: Test this now! > > POISSON TESTING: Alors! Regardez le poisson! > > REPRESSION TESTING: It's not a bug, it's a feature. > > SECESSION TESTING: The bug is dead! Long live the bug! > > SUGGESTION TESTING: Well, it works but wouldn't it be better if... Added by JFA: DELUSION TESTING: Naahhhh, don't loose any time doing any testing, it'll work... Jean-Francois Avon, B.Sc. Physics, Montreal, Canada DePompadour, Soci�t� d'Importation Lt�e Limoges fine porcelain and french crystal JFA Technologies, R&D physicists & engineers Instrumentation & control, LabView programming PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C From tcmay at got.net Mon Nov 2 07:23:37 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 23:23:37 +0800 Subject: TEMPEST laptops Message-ID: At 12:26 PM -0800 11/1/98, Dave Emery wrote: >On Sun, Nov 01, 1998 at 09:53:37AM -0800, Tim May wrote: >> >> Anyway, were I to try to shield a laptop I'd start with microwave leakage >> meters, a couple of t.v.s and radio (of different types and bands), and >> then I'd start recording signal levels of various sorts as different >> shielding layers and types were applied to the laptop(s). Simple lab stuff. >> > > As someone who has actually spent hellish weeks working to >suppress the RF emissions of some commericial network gear I designed - >to make it pass FCC B and VDE certification - let me say this is a black >art and no fun. There are sophisticated electromagnetics programs that >can sometimes succeed in modeling the radiation from a computer system, >but they are very expensive and inputting all the required information >is painful or downright impossible (data just not available or in a >usable format), so this nasty job usually gets done seat of the pants >style using rules of thumb and educated guesses and hard won experiance >and lots of trial and error. The job consists of attaching lossy >ferrite beads, copper tape and other RF and common mode current supressing >devices, shielding plastic packages with spray metallic coatings, adding ... All good points, but there's a big difference between trying to meet FCC emissions requirements for a commercial product that has to meet cost, weight, and cosmetic requirements (e.g., a plastic case!), and the scenario of making a TEMPEST-like box for a laptop. Ferrite beads and copper tape are a lot different from a sealed box made of 10-gauge copper sheet. > Nobody does this using ordinary radios and TVs, the standard >tool is a broadband spectrum analyzer or special EMC receiver with >quasipeak filters and special calibrated wideband dipole antennas that >have known gain and pattern characteristics. Isolating of radiating >sites is often done with near field probes or sniffers attached to the >spectrum analyzer that allow hot spots to be tracked to within a few cm. >Often in order to get enough sensitivity one also needs special >preamps, and a RF quiet site where signals from the DUT aren't drowned >out by pagers and cellphones and emissions from nearby computers. A >good bit of this work is done way out in the country under non-metallic >fiberglass buildings that don't create reflections that confuse the >measurements. And conducted as opposed to radiated noise is measured >with special power line filters and cable filters... Sure, but my point was that John Young should *at least* start with actual measurements, as opposed to putting most of the onus on a FOIA request to get TEMPEST docs declassified. If he can get spectrum analyzers and all that stuff, so much the better. --Tim May Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From rah at shipwright.com Mon Nov 2 07:33:23 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 23:33:23 +0800 Subject: No vulnerability known in SSH-1.2.26 Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:33:29 +0200 (EET) From: Tatu Ylonen To: ssh at clinet.fi, ssh-bugs at clinet.fi, bugtraq at netspace.org, info at rootshell.com, coderpunks at toad.com CC: "David A. Curry" , cert at cert.org, auscert at auscert.org.au Subject: No vulnerability known in SSH-1.2.26 Organization: SSH Communications Security, Finland Sender: owner-coderpunks at toad.com Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- As the original author of SSH I want to comment on the rumored vulnerabilities. I have personally looked into the claimed vulnerabilities, including the ones reported by IBM, and do not have any reason to assume that there would be any vulnerability in ssh-1.2.26. NO SUCH VULNERABILITY IS KNOWN. I repeat, I KNOW OF NO VULNERABILITY IN SSH-1.2.26. The IBM-ERS report on ssh vulnerability turned out to be false alert. They could not reproduce it after they recompiled their ssh and linux kernel. I have personally checked all places where ssh displays debugging messages, log messages, or otherwise uses functions like sprintf. I was unable to find any vulnerabilities. I have talked to people at both CERT and the IBM emergency response service and none of them seems to have any knowledge of any vulnerability in SSH. In summary, to my best knowledge, ssh-1.2.26 can be safely used. Please communicate this information to the relevant people. Brief history of events: - On October 28, the rootshell.com home page was defaced by hackers. After the host was brought up to date, their front page contained information that listed the services that had been active, and mentioned that entry may have been made with ssh. (Note that this does not by itself indicate anything; password or other authentication may have been obtained at the other end) - On October 29, a message about the rootshell case is posted to bugtraq and possibly other mailing lists. Many people took this as indication of a vulnerability in ssh. - We looked at the rootshell case, and found no cause for alarm, but decided to be watching. - On October 30, IBM sent an draft advisory reporting a buffer overflow vulnerability that could be used to gain root access to any host running ssh from anywhere on the Internet. The draft advisory was sent to at least CERT, FIRST, ssh-bugs, and a few other places. - On october 30, several major computer manufacturers and their offices around the world were advising their customers to follow the situation, and possibly disable ssh for now. Some CERTs around the world issued preliminary alerts to their most important sites. - I learn of the IBM advisory on October 31 at 2 AM. By 6 AM I've talked to both CERT and IBM Emergency Response Team, checked the code claimed to be at fault (finding no problem), and no-one seems to have any concrete information, and we conclude there is no cause for immediate alarm. - By November 1, the IBM researchers who found the vulnerability in the IBM draft advisory have been reached. One of them says he never saw an exploit, and the other first said he had an exploit and he was going to send it over shortly, and the next day he said that he could no longer reproduce the problem after recompiling ssh. He does not appear to have an exploit after all. - I've personally gone through all places where ssh1 passes information to sprintf, log_msg, or any other functions using sprintf. I found no security problems. I found one place where an argument to a format string was missing, but it is probably not exploitable, and one place where one byte less was allocated for a string than was used (only appears on Solaris). Neither of these have security consequences or are cause for alarm. - On November 1, the IBM announcement for which IBM has already issued a cancellation is widely distributed by rootshell through their announcement list. - Now at Morning November 2, I'm convinced (>99% sure) that both the rootshell issue and the IBM draft advisory were false alerts. We are also trying to track down the linux compilation problem that may have caused the false alert behind the IBM advisory. We will issue an announcement as soon as possible if real vulnerability is found. For more information, please keep tracking http://www.ssh.fi/sshprotocols2. Best regards, Tatu Ylonen - -- SSH Communications Security http://www.ssh.fi/ SSH IPSEC Toolkit http://www.ipsec.com/ Free Unix SSH http://www.ssh.fi/sshprotocols2/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNj1tbqkZxfGWH0o1AQEaLwP+LPhkCOGFs30gfbyjMLLMkNp03OOfpALJ uwqBvLPIntIWhHbjq1GF9D3hekyQ3PdiC+5SEBfFBj1xlAg1SPROJ2JV5d2QHuPm B39j3YuQSJT5j/QXN0nkbP7ll9UoPJ9eMWBQvd5Hgf//eAk6ccns4fUqensMypeR 9J3O2JQG6ow= =gesm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From ptrei at securitydynamics.com Mon Nov 2 07:37:09 1998 From: ptrei at securitydynamics.com (Trei, Peter) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 23:37:09 +0800 Subject: TEMPEST laptops Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Lucky Green [SMTP:shamrock at cypherpunks.to] > Sent: Sunday, November 01, 1998 8:33 PM > To: Bill Stewart > Cc: cypherpunks at cyberpass.net > Subject: Re: TEMPEST laptops > > On Sun, 1 Nov 1998, Bill Stewart wrote: > [...] > > Just using a regular laptop isn't enough; I've seen laptops > > transmit recognizable images to a television (though I was probably > > using AC power rather than batteries, and may or may not have had > > the display mode set to LCD-and-monitor.) > > Thanks for touching on the popuar myth that laptops radiate less than > CRT's. Many laptops in fact radiate more compromising emissions than > CRT's. Ross Anderson does his van Eck demos to undergrads using a laptop, > because it works so much better than CRT's. > > -- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. Nearly all laptops have a built-in video port, for connection to an external monitor. This is often poorly shielded (usually just a plastic plug). I'd be curious to know how much the radiation from this port could be attenuated by (1) a metal plug contacting the laptop's ground plane, and (2) removing all the video-port specific circuitry (major surgery for a laptop :-( ). Peter Trei From billp at nmol.com Mon Nov 2 08:01:25 1998 From: billp at nmol.com (bill payne) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 00:01:25 +0800 Subject: orange book Message-ID: <363DCA2B.7C4E@nmol.com> Monday 11/2/98 7:55 AM PaulMerrill at ACM.Org I looked at the orange book at NOT the Orange Book - http://www.jya.com/ntob.htm NSA employee Tom White http://jya.com/nsasuit.txt got me a copy of I was told was THE NSA orange book for Sandia�s implementation of the NSA Benincasa nss/uso authentication algorithm.. The report I saw was concerned about implementation of cryptographic units. Things like shielding, power filtering, red-black boundaries, shift register compromising signals, some software guidelines,.... The soft-cover report was mostly hardware-oriented. What I see at jya.com is not the orange book Sandia was given. bill payne Title: Black and White Test of Cryptographic Algorithms Jump to Forum Click Image to Jump to Next Article Go to Text Only Print Version Black and White Test of Cryptographic Algorithms by William H. Payne This article requires special formatting. Please Click Here to Read Send This Article to a Friend: � Your Name: � Email Address of your Friend: � Your Email address: � � � � � Back to Home Page Quick Menu Visit the Button Shop Interactive Forum Black and White Test of Cryptographic Algorithms E-mail the Editor � From PaulMerrill at acm.org Mon Nov 2 08:41:22 1998 From: PaulMerrill at acm.org (Paul H. Merrill) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 00:41:22 +0800 Subject: orange book In-Reply-To: <363DCA2B.7C4E@nmol.com> Message-ID: <363DFD9C.C7C55E44@ACM.Org> No, like the title says, that is "NOT The Orange Book". Many (read all) of the people I worked with at WPAFB and the contractor sites were confused by the deluge that NCSC put out and called the Rainbow Series. In an attempt to give clues to the realities involved, I wrote the condensations and then wrapped a body around the skeleton formed by them. If one reads the information there, one will see that that is what it purports to be. NTOB is not a site, it is the title of the book (paper published with an orange cover, of course). ((I thought of using cyan (not.orange) but no one got the joke but the squints and precious few of them.) Of course, not having seen what Sandia was givn, I an only assume that DOD 5200.28-STD is what Sandia was given. It IS what was I was working from, along with the other toys put out by various governmental bodies. PHM bill payne wrote: > > Monday 11/2/98 7:55 AM > > PaulMerrill at ACM.Org > > I looked at the orange book at NOT the Orange Book - > http://www.jya.com/ntob.htm > > NSA employee Tom White http://jya.com/nsasuit.txt got me a copy of I was > told was > THE NSA orange book for Sandia�s implementation of the NSA Benincasa > nss/uso authentication algorithm.. > > The report I saw was concerned about implementation of cryptographic > units. > > Things like shielding, power filtering, red-black boundaries, shift > register > compromising signals, some software guidelines,.... The soft-cover > report was mostly > hardware-oriented. > > What I see at jya.com is not the orange book Sandia was given. > > bill payne <> From stuffed at stuffed.net Tue Nov 3 01:20:23 1998 From: stuffed at stuffed.net (STUFFED TUE NOV 3) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 01:20:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY! 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Full instructions on unsubscribing are in every issue of Eureka! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- From mmotyka at lsil.com Mon Nov 2 11:03:37 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 03:03:37 +0800 Subject: TEMPEST laptops Message-ID: <363DF8EB.24CF@lsil.com> > Understand that my comments are just some "common sense with a little > bit of physics" estimates, not direct knowledge of how best to shield > laptops. > I'd do this in preference to worrying about what some 1978 government > docs had to say about the subject. TEMPEST the specs are probably a > mixture of "RF shielding" tips and standards, and a mix of Van Eck > radiation tuner designs. > A long time ago I ran thermal measurement boards on a piece of equipment in liquid He under vacuum. Pretty icy. I used only standard components. My question is this - anyone know of any estimates of how weak a signal could be detected and actually rendered into useful information? The relevance of the low-T stuff is that it seems like a nice way to make low-noise receiving equipment. With an estimate of the capabilities of the receiver ( @exotic-lHe and commonplace-lN2 temps ) you could then address the emissions of the laptop with reasonable, quantitative target levels. Sort of reverse engineer the TEMPEST specs as it were. It would be nice to know what needed to be done to reduce emissions to the point that you could be fairly sure that an eavesdropper had to park on your doorstep to make his equipment work. > VERY FEW PEOPLE CARE ABOUT SECURITY. > Since they don't have anything to hide, why should they worry? Argh. ergo - if they're hiding something they are guilty of something. Bust the doors down boys. Mike From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Mon Nov 2 11:34:19 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 03:34:19 +0800 Subject: Techno Warfare In The 21st Century (fwd) Message-ID: <199811021837.MAA01250@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: >From consim-l-return-17237-ravage=ssz.com at net.uni-c.dk Mon Nov 2 12:19:37 1998 Mailing-List: contact consim-l-help at net.uni-c.dk; run by ezmlm Reply-To: consim-l at net.uni-c.dk Delivered-To: mailing list consim-l at net.uni-c.dk From: HBtLF at aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 13:20:21 EST To: consim-l at net.uni-c.dk Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Techno Warfare In The 21st Century Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Dear consimers, When I'm not playing or designing wargames, I produce documentary programs for television. I'm considering whether to produce a documentary on the topic of technology and weaponry. Specifically, I want to look at how computer networks can be used in warfare. I grew up on SAC bases, so I've seen that side of it (computers controlling missile systems, for example). I'm more interested in how cyberwarfare might be conducted over the Internet to bring down an opponent's infrastructure (or play havoc with economic activity such as stock markets). James Adams' new book "Computers Are The Weapons and The Front Line Is Everywhere" is the type of material I am trying to find. I would urge any consimmers with suggestions to contact me at hbtlf at aol.com Thanks in advance. David Bolt From tcmay at got.net Mon Nov 2 12:50:46 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 04:50:46 +0800 Subject: Sex, Terrorism and the NET Message-ID: <199811022004.MAA19140@always.got.net> I know there are some here who think Cypherpunks should cooperate with law enforcment and do "reach outs" to such folks...this was a theme at some past CFP Conferences, for example. I think most cops will use anyone they can. Meanwhile, this is what they're doing. Entrapment, infiltration, participation in chat rooms and news groups, and all the usual Red Squad stuff. --Tim > From: spranzint at aol.com (Spranz int) > Newsgroups: alt.security.terrorism > Subject: Sex, Terrorism and the NET > Lines: 52 > NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder03.news.aol.com > X-Admin: news at aol.com > Date: 2 Nov 1998 13:29:57 GMT > Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com > Message-ID: <19981102082957.03067.00002747 at ng117.aol.com> > Xref: Sn alt.security.terrorism:3219 > > > > Sex, Terrorism and the Internet: > Inservice Workshop for Law Enforcement > > > > > LEARN: Who is the best Internet provider for you. > Techniques for creating a screen persona > How to verify and use your on-line contacts to gather vital intelligence > The latest Hacking techniques > > EXAMINE: Live and On-line... > Pedophiles, Swap Groups and White Slavery > Neo Nazi and Militia Movements > Latin American Revolutionaries > Nationalist Groups with both local and global operations > Militant Islamic Movements > > PARTICIPATE IN: News groups and Chat Rooms > World wide Web Sites, Links and Search Engines > Hacking , Militia and Sex Trade Chatrooms around the globe > > DISCOVER : Web sites offering detailed information on: > procuring and using Nuclear, Chemical and Biological Agents > as well as satellite intelligence data . > How to get "expert" advice > How to procure black market items and conduct investigations on > the web > > Curriculum includes: > > Introduction to Cyberspace Hacking and Cracking > Sex and the Internet Student Explorations > Learning Investigative Tools Developing in house programs > Exploring NEWSGROUPS Monitoring and Identifying suspects > Terror Organizations Creating a web persona > > Fee: $ 50.00 includes class handouts and certificate > Program includes an optional two hour online practicum following the > presentation. > > FDLE Approved for Second Dollar Spending and Mandatory Retraining! > Location: Coral Springs Police Dept, Coral Springs FL > > Date: Friday 4 December 1999 / 0830 � 1230 (4 instruction hours) > To Register: Contact a Spranza Representative at: > POB 26047 Tamarac, FL 33320 > Voice: (954) 722 � 5811 email: Spranzint at aol.com fax: (954) 720 � 4472 > Visit our website: http://members.aol.com/spranzint/pubpage.htm for more info! From nobody at seclab.com Mon Nov 2 13:05:28 1998 From: nobody at seclab.com (DOOM Anonymous Untraceable User) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 05:05:28 +0800 Subject: Seeking CDSA source code reference implementation Message-ID: <199811022025.VAA06813@rogue.seclab.com> I am searching for a source code reference implementation of the CDSA V2.0 standard as published by the Open Group. I know that a freely available implementation has been released by IBM (MIT Jonah PKIX Freeware, can be downloaded from http://web.mit.edu/pfl) but this is legally accessible only for US citizen. I have tried to spot the CDSA source but have not found anything up to now. Has this software found its way outside the US yet? I'd like to put my fingers on it without actually breaking fed laws... Thanx. From mixmaster at remail.obscura.com Mon Nov 2 13:11:45 1998 From: mixmaster at remail.obscura.com (Mixmaster) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 05:11:45 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <487987985c0f857e82f678740b802bd9@anonymous> Might as well include the laptop with the box, including an encrypted filesystem and some software and hardware booby trap features. Whitecap From xasper8d at lobo.net Mon Nov 2 14:38:00 1998 From: xasper8d at lobo.net (X) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 06:38:00 +0800 Subject: Sex, Terrorism and the NET In-Reply-To: <199811022004.MAA19140@always.got.net> Message-ID: <001601be06aa$1bf80a80$852580d0@ibm> Tim May wrote: ~> -----Original Message----- ~> From: owner-cypherpunks at minder.net ~> [mailto:owner-cypherpunks at minder.net]On Behalf Of Tim May ~> Sent: Monday, November 02, 1998 1:05 PM ~> To: cypherpunks at cyberpass.net ~> Subject: Sex, Terrorism and the NET ~> ~> I know there are some here who think Cypherpunks should ~> cooperate with law ~> enforcment and do "reach outs" to such folks...this was a theme at some ~> past CFP Conferences, for example. ~> ~> I think most cops will use anyone they can. Meanwhile, this is what ~> they're doing. ~> ~> Entrapment, infiltration, participation in chat rooms and news ~> groups, and ~> all the usual Red Squad stuff. ~> ~> --Tim Good points. How many of those who receive cpunx email are LEA? 10%? 15? 20? Let's all sneak out and see how long they keep the lights off before figuring out the party's empty! X From mgering at ecosystems.net Mon Nov 2 15:16:55 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 07:16:55 +0800 Subject: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone Alternative Message-ID: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B226@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com> > paradox of financial cryptography, and, more specifically, > digital bearer settlement, is not that it gives you privacy > and freedom (anarchy? :-)) Anarchy != privacy In fact to many people privacy is a very statist construct, as they clamor for more privacy regulations by government. The contradiction is government has a vested interest in preventing privacy from itself, and generally makes loud but ineffectual noise in creating privacy from others. There are many anarchic elements financial cryptography, such as: * That you can achieve greater privacy through cryptographic means instead of government means by limiting the information transfer via zero knowledge, blinding, cryptographic pseudonymity, etc. * That you can exchange money in ways that are secured cryptographically and settled instantly that do not rely on the government as observer/auditor/enforcer[/taxer]. * You can create private currencies that do not rely on government goodwill and stability to retain their value. * That you can enforce contracts via electronic mediation and reputation punishment in a way that does not rely on biometric ID and government mediation/enforcement. Therefore traditionally archical processes become anarchical (without state [involvement]). It is the *process*, not the result that is anarchic, and it is the process, not the result, that is cheaper. Cryptography (cpu-cycles) is cheaper than government, with a falling cost versus a rising one. Will all these free anarchical processes eventually result in an anarchic state? Maybe. But the economics of the processes is the prime mover, the politics of the result is a consequence. Matt From rah at shipwright.com Mon Nov 2 16:15:10 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:15:10 +0800 Subject: dbts: Lions and TEMPESTs and Black Helicopters (Oh, My!) In-Reply-To: <363DF8EB.24CF@lsil.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 1:24 PM -0500 on 11/2/98, Mr. Motyka vamps on Mr. May in cypherpunks: > > VERY FEW PEOPLE CARE ABOUT SECURITY. > > > Since they don't have anything to hide, why should they worry? Argh. > ergo - if they're hiding something they are guilty of something. Bust > the doors down boys. Naaawww.... It's not so bad as all that... Remember, fairly soon now, if not already, we'll be storing *lots* of encrypted data on our disks, not only in the form of encrypted, controlled-play software, or proprietary company information, or infotainment (however long *that* lasts), but also in the form of encrypted passwords, private keys, and, of course, digital bearer certificates ;-). In addition, every time you do a book-entry transaction, you're perforce (heh...) using an encrypted link with at least SSL, and, at some point, people will demand much cheaper and faster internet-level encryption ala IPSEC to move their money (and their other bits worth money) around. Or they'll be required to by their employers in various VPN/WAN systems. Or, frankly, they'll just do it without knowing it anyway, because their TCP/IP apps will be IPV6 (or something) compliant. Everyone here who does this stuff for a living knows that the amount of horsepower necessary to decrypt all those different kinds of encrypted stuff, even the weak stuff, is going to be positively prohibitive (instead of permitted? ;-)), since it all has different keys, lots of which are long gone. IPSEC keys, for instance, are positively disposable, and, if it's done right - -- which it will be, because nobody wants to lose *money*, after all -- the encrypted packets will originate at the client, and not the router, so all that "private doorbell" stuff is just a smokescreen for what is going to be superencrypted data anyway. And, of course, we all know now that KRAP / ne� Key Escrow / ne� GAK / ne� Key Recovery / ne� Clipper is logically, much less physically, impossible. Don't ask me, ask the likes of Diffie, and Rivest, and Schneier, et alia. All the "legislation" in the world ain't gonna change that, right? Digital Commerce is Financial Cryptography, folks. F=MA. It ain't just for physicists anymore... The black helicopters aren't flying over the hill any time soon, boys and girls. Why? Because, if they tried, soon enough, they couldn't afford the gas for a return visit. Their erstwhile tax revenue, like most money, being fungible and all, is, or soon will be, quite easy enough to bug out into the cyphersphere with. After all, who's to tell one encrypted blop of bits from another? "Awwwww, C'Monnnn. Niiiice taxpayer. Staaaaay. *Don't* go anywhere. Pleeeeease?" A cowardly lion indeed. Cheers, Bob Hettinga -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5 iQEVAwUBNj4wNcUCGwxmWcHhAQEsewf9GbZ2OxeczWZzeNAuBwBm+PlWvZAdOmml UYmik/U4s41x310HtXdPg2ixnUJ/i67rWXYGHeGeAZrbn0IYH69dM7l0qSROSHnM dDMLA18nZjIy1XKzcG0yrRfsbLKtfFpe3Y4SN8dHoTRKzzfoskhmQJWu9/2twVKi Y3gFgd5Qawu4a23jmMOGRJ1pLUpo9jjTu2qs8uA0Q42aeWcm4Zm1QhaK9/9FV9Sm FkbHTgzK6RwaLiKySkqf22KNsy6WLa9ypVLK03tMrJNgILqY2S3xxoM/2EOhf+FF 5yt16/bABw3YvS8WWp2PkmHMn1rxXgBy1iodioFI79Cf35Yu36/O4Q== =GPbv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From vznuri at netcom.com Mon Nov 2 16:21:07 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:21:07 +0800 Subject: IP: Privacy: Dangers of security measures Message-ID: <199811022344.PAA28378@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Privacy: Dangers of security measures Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 09:38:16 -0600 To: believer at telepath.com Source: Federal Computer Week http://www.fcw.com/pubs/fcw/1998/1026/web-epic-10-26-98.html OCTOBER 26, 1998 . . . 16:35 EST Privacy watchdog group warns about dangers of security measures BY HEATHER HARRELD (heather at fcw.com) The recommendations of a presidential commission for protecting the nation's critical computer systems -- many of which are being launched by various federal entities -- would expand government authority and lead to civil liberty violations, according to a report released today by a privacy think tank. The report, authored by the Electronic Privacy Information Center, asserts that the expanded role of the Defense Department and the FBI required to ward off perceived information warfare threats to the nation's critical infrastructures would infringe upon various civil liberties, such as freedom of speech, privacy protections and the Freedom of Information Act. Specifically, Wayne Madsen, senior fellow at EPIC and author of the report, noted that the National Security Agency and other intelligence agencies would have their roles expanded from collecting international intelligence data to focusing efforts on domestic computer security. Traditionally, the NSA has been prohibited from playing a role in the protection of unclassified computer security data. But because infrastructure protection involves working closely with the private-sector owners and operators of infrastructure, such as telecommunications companies and banks, this role would be expanded. The report from the President's Commission on Critical Infrastructure Protection supported the use of key-recovery encryption, a technology mechanism strongly supported by the NSA that would allow law enforcement officials to descramble encrypted data with a court order or other authorization. It also suggests that the federal government create new classifications for government information and provide federal agencies with expanded latitude for classifying information, according to Madsen. "The intelligence community...has had its sights set on restricting access to public information for years," Madsen said. "There's been a struggle between NSA and civilian agencies over who will be responsible for protecting unclassified information. NSA [in commission recommendations] will become the de facto information security czar." But Jeffrey Hunker, director of the Critical Infrastructure Assurance Office, which was created by President Clinton to carry out many of the recommendations in the commission's report, said his office places First Amendment and civil liberty concerns foremost in its work. "We are dealing with a new and evolving threat environment," Hunker said. "Discussions about civil liberties need to recognize the fact that there are new threats that pose real risks to Americans at home...and their way of life." Mail questions to webmaster at fcw.com Copyright 1998 FCW Government Technology Group ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Mon Nov 2 16:23:07 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:23:07 +0800 Subject: IP: [FP] R 141331Z-OCT-98 DNA SPECIMEN COLLECTION PROGRAM Message-ID: <199811022344.PAA28399@netcom13.netcom.com> From: "ScanThisNews" Subject: IP: [FP] R 141331Z-OCT-98 DNA SPECIMEN COLLECTION PROGRAM Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 20:59:51 -0600 To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com SCAN THIS NEWS 10/31/98 Forwarded message: -------------------------------- I am a government contractor and have had my problems with this enumeration demonization and now find that the alarms are rising. A close friend of mine, who is a government employee sent this copy of an unclassified message from the Commander of Naval Surface Pacific Command to all forces of the Pacific command. Undoubtedly, this is also true for the Atlantic Fleet as well as the rest of the military under the control of the Commander in Chief. I think Ayn Rand was correct when she said, "Justice vanished from the country when the gold coins vanished from the country's hands." It appears that sooner than not, we will "not be able to buy or sell except he that has the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let he that has understanding calculate the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man [His DNA?]; and his number is 666." [the helical make-up?] Revelations 13: 17 & 18. May God grant us the wisdom we all need for discernment in this matter. F E -------------------------------- Subject: R 141331Z-OCT-98 DNA SPECIMEN COLLECTION PROGRAM R 141331Z OCT 98 ZYB PSN 475808S32 FM COMNAVSURFPAC SAN DIEGO CA//N01M// TO NAVSURFPAC INFO RHHMHAH/CINCPACFLT PEARL HARBOR HI//N01M// BT UNCLAS //N01320//PASS TO MEDICAL DEPT REPRESENTATIVES MSGID/GENADMIN/N01M// SUBJ/DNA SPECIMEN COLLECTION PROGRAM// REF/A/RMG/COMNAVSURFPAC/101331Z/JUN98// REF/B/RMG/CINCLANTFLT/021630Z/JUN98// NARR/REF A IS READD MSG FROM BOTH CINCS REGARDING THE DNA SPECIMEN COLLECTION PROGRAM. REF B PROVIDED GUIDANCE ON HOW TO QUERY THE ARMED FORCES INSTITUTE OF PATHOLOGY (AFIP) DATABASE.// POC/A.C. ABAD, HMCM(SW)/CNSP/N01M2/-/TEL:(619)437-2326 /TEL:DSN 577-2326// RMKS/1. THE PURPOSE OF THIS MSG IS TO ALERT ALL COMNAVSURFPAC UNITS TO THE REQUIREMENT TO REPORT THE STATUS OF THEIR DNA SPECIMEN COLLECTION PROGRAM TO THE TYCOM. PER REFS A AND B, ALL UNITS ARE REQUESTED TO SUBMIT REPORTS OF COMPLETION OF DNA SPECIMEN COLLECTION TO CNSP NLT 31 OCT 98. ALL UNITS SHOULD HAVE 100 PERCENT [PAGE 02 RUEDMCA0441 UNCLAS] OF THEIR CREW REGISTERED IN THE ARMED FORCES REPOSITORY OF SPECIMEN SAMPLES FOR THE IDENTIFICATION OF REMAINS (AFRSSIR) AT AFIP. 2. FOR QUESTIONS OR CLARIFICATIONS, PLS CONTACT POC. // BT #0441 NNNN RTD:000-000/COPIES: ======================================================================= Don't believe anything you read on the Net unless: 1) you can confirm it with another source, and/or 2) it is consistent with what you already know to be true. ======================================================================= Reply to: ======================================================================= To subscribe to the free Scan This News newsletter, send a message to and type "subscribe scan" in the BODY. Or, to be removed type "unsubscribe scan" in the message BODY. For additional instructions see www.efga.org/about/maillist.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "Scan This News" is Sponsored by S.C.A.N. Host of the "FIGHT THE FINGERPRINT!" web page: www.networkusa.org/fingerprint.shtml ======================================================================= **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Mon Nov 2 16:24:51 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:24:51 +0800 Subject: IP: Sen. Moynihan Warns of Y2K Catastrophe Message-ID: <199811022344.PAA28355@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Sen. Moynihan Warns of Y2K Catastrophe Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 08:42:26 -0600 To: believer at telepath.com Source: http://www.senate.gov/~y2k/statements/100798moynihan.html Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan, Senate Special Committee on the Year 2000 Technology Problem (Oct. 7). As we wind up the last Year 2000 (Y2K) hearing of this Congress, I would like to commend Senator Bennett and the Special Committee for its work in addressing the computer problem. The Committee has done a fine job in looking at all the aspects of society that the Y2K problem affects: the utilities industry, the heath sector, financial services, transportation, government, and businesses. The Committee should also be applauded for the role it played in formulating and passing S. 2392, The Year 2000 Information and Readiness Disclosure Act. As an original cosponsor of this piece of legislation, I am pleased to see that its enactment is soon at hand. The head of the President's Council on Y2K, John Koskinen, said that passing this bill is one of the most important things that we could do on the Y2K front. I agree. I say well done to the Committee for all of the work it has done in such a short amount of time. It was almost two and a half years ago that I sounded the alarm on the computer problem. On July 31, 1996, I sent President Clinton a letter expressing my views and concerns about Y2K. I warned him of the ``extreme negative economic consequences of the Y2K Time Bomb,'' and suggested that ``a presidential aide be appointed to take responsibility for assuring that all Federal Agencies, including the military, be Y2K compliant by January 1, 1999 [leaving a year for `testing'] and that all commercial and industrial firms doing business with the Federal government must also be compliant by that date.'' January 1, 1999 is quickly approaching. I believe that we have made progress in addressing the computer problem and that the ``Good Samaritan'' legislation will play a significant role in ameliorating this problem. But much work remains to be done. For the next 450 days we must continue to work on this problem with dedication and resolve. Historically, the fin de siecle has caused quite a stir. Until now, however, there has been little factual basis on which doomsayers and apocalyptic fear mongers could spread their gospel. After studying the potential impact of Y2K on the telecommunications industry, health care, economy, and other vital sectors of our lives, I would like to warn that we have cause for fear. For the failure to address the millennium bug could be catastrophic. ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Mon Nov 2 16:25:15 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:25:15 +0800 Subject: IP: More clinics receive "anthrax" letters as authorities await results Message-ID: <199811022344.PAA28388@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: More clinics receive "anthrax" letters as authorities await results Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 19:17:26 -0600 To: believer at telepath.com Source: Fox News - AP More clinics receive letters as authorities await results 8.00 p.m. ET (101 GMT) October 31, 1998 By Susanna Ray, Associated Press INDIANAPOLIS (AP) � Federal marshals stood watch Saturday over an abortion clinic that received a letter claiming, "You have just been exposed to anthrax.'' Authorities meanwhile awaited results of tests on the envelope's contents. The Planned Parenthood clinic was one of five clinics that received envelopes Friday containing a brown, powdery substance and threatening notes. The others were in the southern Indiana town of New Albany, Knoxville, Tenn., and two in Louisville, Ky. On Saturday, two other clinics � one in Wichita, Kan., and another in Louisville � reported receiving similar letters. Authorities said the letter to the Wichita clinic was postmarked in Cincinnati, just like the ones sent to at least four other clinics. Pat Bashore of the FBI in Louisville said he did not know the origin of two of the Louisville letters. In Wichita, an employee called the fire department, which contacted federal authorities. FBI spokesman Jeff Lanza said the envelope wasn't opened but "looking at it through backlighting, it doesn't appear to contain anything at all.'' The clinic was evacuated for about 45 minutes. Friday's incident at the Indianapolis clinic prompted police to decontaminate 31 people who were scrubbed down and treated with antibiotics at hospitals as a precaution. Two people from a Louisville clinic also were treated at the hospital Friday. Preliminary tests on the contents of the New Albany envelope and one from Louisville were negative for anthrax, a strain of bacteria that can be used as a biological weapon. Contents of a letter sent to the Knoxville Reproductive Health Center will be sent to a lab for testing, the FBI said. Results of testing in the Indianapolis case had not been completed Saturday, FBI agent Doug Garrison said. Michael Smith, who lives in an apartment near the Indianapolis clinic, said he's opposed to abortion, but now is scared about what anti-abortion extremists might do next. "You're automatically wondering what chemicals went off. I mean, my window's open. ... I feel endangered,'' he said. Meanwhile, a Newsweek poll found that 60 percent of Americans believe the anti-abortion movement has to share at least some of the blame for recent violence against abortion provides. Fears of violent attacks against abortion providers were heightened Oct. 23 when a sniper fatally shot a doctor who performs abortions near Buffalo. Thirty-three percent of those responding said the anti-abortion movement is indirectly connected to the violence because of statements that encourage violence. Another 27 percent believed there is a more direct connection, the Newsweek poll said. The survey also found that 51 percent of Americans sympathize with abortion-rights efforts and 39 percent back the anti-abortion effort. The poll appears in the Nov. 9 issue of the magazine, which is on newsstands Monday. Its margin of error is plus or minus 4 percentage points. � 1998 Associated Press. All rights reserved. ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Mon Nov 2 16:25:25 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:25:25 +0800 Subject: IP: FBI: Anthrax Threat Likely a Hoax Message-ID: <199811022344.PAA28366@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: FBI: Anthrax Threat Likely a Hoax Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 09:35:33 -0600 To: believer at telepath.com Source: Washington Post http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/digest/nat004.htm FBI: Anthrax Threat to Abortion Clinics Likely a Hoax By John Kelly Associated Press Writer Friday, October 30, 1998; 9:20 p.m. EST INDIANAPOLIS - Four abortion clinics in three states received letters Friday claiming to contain deadly anthrax bacteria, prompting the evacuation of the Indianapolis clinic and sending at least 33 people to hospitals, authorities said. Clinics in New Albany, Louisville, Ky., and Knoxville, Tenn., also received letters, Planned Parenthood and federal officials said. All of the letters bore Cincinnati postmarks. The clinic in New Albany, across the river from Louisville, was not evacuated because the letter was not opened, authorities said. A letter sent to a clinic in Bloomington later was determined to contain business correspondence and was not a threat, local police said. An employee of the Louisville clinic and the mail carrier who delivered that letter were taken to the University of Louisville Hospital, treated and released. "The initial investigation has clearly indicated that the substance is unlikely to be anthrax," FBI agent Carl Christiansen said. The FBI is investigating a similar threat at the Knoxville Reproductive Health Center in Knoxville, Tenn., agent Scott Nowinski said. The letter appeared to be a hoax, he said. No one at the Indianapolis clinic complained of any symptoms after an employee opened the letter Friday afternoon. Officials said is was unclear whether the letter actually contained anthrax, a strain of bacteria that can be used as a biological weapon. "We do not know that. But we are handling it as if it were," police Maj. Tim Horty said. The 31 people, who included seven clinic workers, two firefighters, two police officers and the postal carrier who delivered the letter, were stripped, washed with soap and water and dressed in hospital scrubs inside a blue tent in a strip mall parking lot before being taken to a local hospital. They were given antibiotics as a preventive measure. All were expected to be released by Friday night. "No one is sick, no one is experiencing pain," Horty said. Horty said a clinic employee called police about 1 p.m. to report a threatening letter. Inside a small, white envelope was a brown powdery substance and a note saying "you have just been exposed to anthrax." Administrators isolated the envelope in the clinic, but didn't say where or how, Horty said. Police evacuated all other stores in the strip mall and immediately quarantined the clinic. The people exposed to the letter are being taken to Wishard, Methodist and Community hospitals for observation, and are not in any danger, fire Lt. Jack Cassaday said. The hospitals and 911 have been inundated by calls from people in the area who think they might have been exposed, Cassaday said. "No one who was not inside the clinic could have possibly been exposed," he said. Anthrax is a disease normally associated with animals such as sheep or goats. Its spores can infect people who breathe them in. It can kill if left untreated, but antibiotics can usually cure the disease. Authorities in Indianapolis were in the process of having the powder analyzed and hope to know by Monday whether it is anthrax, said Virginia A. Caine, Marion County Health Department director. If the powder is confirmed to be anthrax, those exposed will have to take antibiotics for four weeks, and possibly the anthrax vaccine as well, she said. The letters were received a week after abortion provider Dr. Barnett Slepian, 52, was shot and killed by a sniper in his home in suburban Buffalo, N.Y. "We receive threats from time to time, but nothing very substantial. The employees here did the appropriate thing. This did not look suspicious until they opened it," said Delbert Culp, president of Planned Parenthood of Central and Southern Indiana. "These are just political extremists who call themselves pro-life. This is not pro-life." Ann Minnis of Haubstadt, Ind., president of Gibson County Right to Life, an anti-abortion group, said she has been with the organization for 25 years and has "never met anyone who would do such a thing. "We're about saving lives, not about anything like that (the anthrax threats)," she said. "Heavens, it's horrible." � Copyright 1998 The Associated Press ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Mon Nov 2 16:26:21 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:26:21 +0800 Subject: IP: Anthrax Scare Message-ID: <199811022344.PAA28334@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Anthrax Scare Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 18:39:22 -0600 To: believer at telepath.com Source: Indianapolis Star News http://starnews.com/news/citystate/98/oct/1030SN_anthrax.html Letter claims it was contaminated with Anthrax 29 people are contained, decontaminated at Planned Parenthood clinic By Stephen Beaven Indianapolis Star/News INDIANAPOLIS (Oct. 30, 1998) -- At least 29 people were treated Friday afternoon for possible exposure to the deadly biological toxin Anthrax at a Planned Parenthood clinic at East 21st Street and Ritter Avenue. The FBI confirmed late Friday afternoon that clinics in New Albany and Bloomington received similar threats. The Planned Parenthood eastside clinic received a letter shortly after 1 p.m. with a simple message -- you have been exposed to Anthrax, according to the Indianapolis Fire Department. Police and health and safety workers swooped in soon after to quarantine the people in the building. At least a dozen professionals from the fire department's hazardous materials team entered the building in white decontamination suits with surgical masks and safety glasses to treat those inside. After being scrubbed down, the people in the clinic were being taken to area hospitals late Friday afternoon. "The last thing we want to do is contaminate a hospital," said one police official on the scene. "No one is showing symptoms at this time, but they are scared and upset." A worker at the clinic opened a plain beige envelope with a Cincinnati postmark Friday afternoon. Inside there was a simple letter with the threat. It was unclear if the letter actually contained Anthrax, which is generally used in biological warfare and terrorism. But even if it was a hoax, it looked real, according to IFD Lt. Jack Cassaday. "It looked like Anthrax so whoever sent it knew enough to package it the right way," he said. It has not been confirmed that the letter indeed was contaminated with Anthrax. The substance was being tested at a local lab, Cassaday added. The bacteria Anthrax has flu-like symptoms which do not surface until one to six days. The symptoms are high fever, chest pains and hemmoraging. ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Mon Nov 2 16:28:36 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:28:36 +0800 Subject: IP: Farah: The cops are out of control Message-ID: <199811022344.PAA28323@netcom13.netcom.com> From: E Pluribus Unum Subject: IP: Farah: The cops are out of control Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 19:39:20 -0500 To: E Pluribus Unum Email Distribution Network The cops are out of control Until very recently, as a law-abiding person, the presence of police generally gave me a feeling of security, well-being, order. Not any more. I confess that, lately, when I see a cop in my rear-view mirror, I get a very uneasy feeling. Maybe it's the horror stories we're hearing. Maybe it's the way local and state police have become little more than appendages of the federal law-enforcement apparatus. Maybe it's the fact that so many cops have taken sides against the Constitution and the rights of the people in the name of more efficient crime-prevention. But the recent incidents in Oklahoma, where police shot an unarmed mother holding her child in her home, in Virginia, where a SWAT team killed a watchman guarding a dice game at an after-hours club and in California, where a Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms raid on a gun shop resulted in the death of the shopkeeper, provide some hard evidence that police in America may be getting out of control I think also about columnist Geoff Metcalf's anecdote about the law-abiding man arrested and jailed for having in his possession a tire iron, which was classified as a deadly weapon. Had he brandished it? No. Had he threatened anyone? No. Had the California Highway Patrol officer awakened on the wrong side of her bed that morning? Maybe. But when you start putting all these incidents together, with the backdrop of the massacre in Waco, Texas, and the unnecessary shootout at Ruby Ridge, it's no wonder Americans like me are beginning to worry about the possibilities of an emerging police state. "Oh, it couldn't happen here," some retort. "America is different. The cops are our friends." That may have been true through most of our history. But there's one big difference today. The government no longer trusts the people. There is a move to disarm the populace and to entrust our safety solely to professional law enforcement. This is a pattern we've seen in other authoritarian and totalitarian regimes. It's a prerequisite to the formation of a police state. It's what our Founding Fathers warned us about. It's why we have a Second Amendment. One of the other problems we face in America today is the increasing number of laws on the books designed to turn virtually everyone into a law-breaker. It's easier for cops today to fill their quota of arrests and citations by targeting non-threatening, non-violent citizens than it is actually chasing down violent criminals. Too often, today's cops make no distinction between hardened, professional criminals, and people who may or may not be in technical violation of the law -- perhaps even an unjust, unconstitutional law. But the biggest danger we face is the federalization and militarization of all law enforcement. Inter-agency task forces, bringing together local and state police with federal agents are now the rule of the day. Federal agencies bribe local cops with funding, equipment and training programs. America is rapidly becoming an "us vs. them" society -- with the cops and government on one side and the people on the other. Many of us don't feel the heat yet. But it's just a matter of time before we're all confronted with the harsh realities of the new emerging police state. One of these days -- and it may be sooner rather than later -- America is going to be confronted with a real domestic emergency. It's not a matter of if, but when. We've had precious few real domestic crises throughout our history, and Americans have become spoiled. Thus, we take our freedoms for granted. There are so many possibilities and excuses on the horizon -- Y2K, terrorism, the threat posed by weapons of mass destruction from rogue states as well as China and Russia. Will America respond to the next crisis in a way that preserves our civil rights and liberties? Or will we lose our tentative grasp on freedom -- giving up an illustrious tradition for the sake of security, safety, order? If we're to maintain any semblance of freedom in the worst of times, we must hold the government and police accountable in the best of times. A daily radio broadcast adaptation of Joseph Farah's commentaries can be heard at http://www.ktkz.co -- ****************************************************************** E Pluribus Unum The Central Ohio Patriot Group P.O. Box 791 Eventline/Voicemail: (614) 823-8499 Grove City, OH 43123 Meetings: Monday Evenings, 7:30pm, Ryan's Steakhouse 3635 W. Dublin-Granville Rd. (just East of Sawmill Rd.) http://www.infinet.com/~eplurib eplurib at infinet.com ****************************************************************** **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Mon Nov 2 16:29:33 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:29:33 +0800 Subject: IP: 18-year-old rebels against being numbered Message-ID: <199811022344.PAA28344@netcom13.netcom.com> From: E Pluribus Unum Subject: IP: 18-year-old rebels against being numbered Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 19:43:27 -0500 To: E Pluribus Unum Email Distribution Network YOUR PAPERS, PLEASE ... 18-year-old rebels against being numbered Wins right to vote without Social Security registration By David M. Bresnahan Copyright 1998, WorldNetDaily.com LAS VEGAS, NV -- Even though government agencies tried their best to stop him, an 18-year-old will vote for the first time in the Nov. 3 election. Last July, Joshua Hansen, 18, went to register to vote. A few days later he received a letter in the mail from Kathryn Ferguson, registrar of voters of Clark County, Nevada, rejecting his application. Hansen had refused to supply a Social Security number on his application and Ferguson rejected him as a voter. Hansen says he does not have a Social Security number, driver's license, or government issued ID card. He says that he never will. He also refuses to pay income tax. He defends his stands on these issues based on his study of the U.S. Constitution and his religious beliefs. He says he is willing to pay any price and will not give in to government pressure. Hansen takes his right to vote seriously. So seriously that he took Ferguson to court to prove his point. With the help of his uncle, attorney Joel F. Hansen, he got the court to order Ferguson to permit him to vote. He belongs to the First Christian Fellowship of Eternal Sovereignty, which he says is a political religion based on Christianity and the Constitution which people of all denominations may join. "It's a fellowship of anybody who's Christian who really exercises their Christian beliefs within politics," explained Hansen in a phone interview with WorldNetDaily. "The Social Security number was much like the mark of the beast talked about in the "Book of Revelations." One of the main reasons is that it, I mean you can't buy or sell without it, it's hard to do a lot of business without it. Have you ever tried to get a job without one, or voting or anything? A lot of the stuff talked about in the prophecy had come to life and I said, 'I don't want one of those.' "Everything around Social Security is a lie. I don't want any of the benefits from it and I don't want to pay for it. The system's going bankrupt. Anything I pay for I'll never see anyway. It's blatantly unlawful and unconstitutional," explained Hansen. Living without a Social Security number is a challenge, but not a major problem for Hansen. He has no bank account, works only for family members who will pay him "under the table," refuses to get a driver's license, and won't pay taxes. Recently he started his own Internet consulting business. He just finished high school this year and says he has very few friends who believe as he does. He belongs to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. "Because of my political beliefs," says Hansen, "I have a lot of trouble getting along at church with a lot of my fellow members." The members of his church believe in "The Articles of Faith," a portion of it reads "We believe in . . . obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law." "They told me that the law said I had to have a number," explains Hansen. "I said, 'This is kind of stupid because all these numbers are obtained through the identification I already have.' When you get a driver's license or an ID card here, basically you show them your birth certificate, and to prove residency you write down on a little paper what your address is and sign something that says you're not lying, which is all you do on a voter registration thing." Ferguson didn't like Hansen's logic. She rejected his application to vote. Hansen contacted many elected officials for help. Some responded and some didn't, but none were of much help so he decided to take it to court. "The Constitution of Nevada establishes who can vote," explained Hansen. "If you're an idiot, you're insane, and if you don't have residency you can't vote. That's it." Hansen filed a Writ of Mandamus in the Clark County District Court. The purpose was to have the court order Ferguson to register Hansen so he can vote. Nevada law states that the "County Clerk shall require a person to submit official identification as proof of residence and identity, such as a driver's license or other official document before registering him." Hansen presented a diploma from high school and a birth certificate, but Ferguson demanded a Social Security card, driver's license, or a state ID card. Hansen does not have those items and in his petition to the court his attorney stated, "therefore, he presented alternative identification to the Registrar of Voters, but his right to register to vote was refused and denied by the county registrar of voters." Hansen was more surprised than anyone when his petition was granted by the court. "I didn't think I'd win," he said. On Oct. 19, the court ordered Ferguson to register Hansen to vote, and he now plans to cast his first ballot on Nov. 3. This may be just the first of many battles ahead for Hansen. He does drive a car, and does not plan to get a license. "The government has no right to regulate who can and cannot drive unless they have proven themselves to be a danger to the community and have been convicted by 12 informed jurors," wrote Hansen in an e-mail message to WorldNetDaily. "Assuming that everyone is already a danger and by telling us we must have a license to drive is known better as 'prior restraint' and according to the U.S. Supreme Court is unconstitutional." Hansen also objects to the current law which will implement a national ID card on Oct. 1, 2000. He says that Congress passed the law using illegal immigration control as the excuse. "The even more ironic twist is that most of the illegal immigrants coming here are filtering from Mexico trying to reap the socialist benefits offered by the federal government. Welfare, government schools, health care, social security, etc. If you want to stop illegal immigration bring back the American way of work hard and succeed as opposed to show up and leech off the tax payers," wrote Hansen. He concluded his e-mail by saying, "There is nothing they can ever do to make me surrender my personal freedom, nothing. I don't know a lot of people who exercise freedom to the point of fanaticism I do. I will not pay federal income tax, I will not be marked my their unconstitutional anti-Christ numbers. I will not take any of their socialist benefits. I will not bow before any bureaucracy. I will not surrender my God-given freedom to those bastards for any reason." David Bresnahan is a contributing editor of WorldNetDaily.com, and is the author of "Cover Up: The Art and Science of Political Deception." You may e-mail him at David at talkusa.com -- ****************************************************************** E Pluribus Unum The Central Ohio Patriot Group P.O. Box 791 Eventline/Voicemail: (614) 823-8499 Grove City, OH 43123 Meetings: Monday Evenings, 7:30pm, Ryan's Steakhouse 3635 W. Dublin-Granville Rd. (just East of Sawmill Rd.) http://www.infinet.com/~eplurib eplurib at infinet.com ****************************************************************** **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Mon Nov 2 16:34:08 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:34:08 +0800 Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 6.03: Privacy Here and Abroad Message-ID: <199811022344.PAA28410@netcom13.netcom.com> From: "ama-gi ISPI" Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 6.03: Privacy Here and Abroad Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 00:06:37 -0800 To: ISPI Clips 6.03: Privacy Here and Abroad News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) November 1, 1998 ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This From: The Washington Post, Saturday, October 31, 1998; Page A16 http://www.washingtonpost.com Privacy Here and Abroad http://search.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1998-10/31/083l-103198-idx.h tml CONCERN OVER the privacy of personal data is sharpening as the problem appears in more and sometimes unexpected contexts -- everything from employer testing of people's genetic predispositions to resale of their online reading habits or their bank records. When the data are medical or financial, everyone but the sellers and resellers seems ready to agree that people should have some measure of control over how and by whom their data will be used. But how, other than piecemeal, can such control be established, and what would a more general right to data privacy look like? One approach very different from that of the United States, as it happens, is about to be thrust upon the consciousness of many American businesses as a European law called the European Union Data Privacy Directive goes into effect. The European directive has drawn attention not only because the European approach to and history on data privacy are sharply different from our own but also because the new directive comes with prohibitions on export that would crimp the options of any company that does business both here and in Europe. The directive imposes sweeping prohibitions on the use of any personal data without the explicit consent of the person involved, for that purpose only (repeated uses or resale require repeated permission) and also bars companies from exporting any such data to any country not ruled by the EU to have "adequate" privacy protection measures already in place. The Europeans have not ruled the United States "adequate" in this regard -- no surprise there -- though individual industries may pass muster or fall under special exemptions. That means, for instance, that multinational companies cannot allow U.S. offices access to personnel data on European employees, and airlines can't swap reservations data without restrictions. More to the point, they can't share or sell the kinds of data on customers that in this country are now routinely treated as another possible income stream. Would such restraints be a boon to customers on these shores too? Or will Americans, as the data companies frequently argue, find instead that they want the convenience and "one-on-one marketing" that this constant dossier-compiling makes possible? In one early case, a U.S. airline is being sued in Sweden to prevent its compiling and selling a database of, for instance, passengers who requested kosher meals or wheelchair assistance on arrival from transatlantic flights. Do customers want the "convenience" of this kind of tracking, and if not, how might they -- we -- avoid having it offered? The contrast between systems is a chance to consider which of the many business-as-usual uses of data in this country rise to the level of a privacy violation from which citizens should be shielded by law. � Copyright 1998 The Washington Post Company --------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------ ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research and educational purposes only. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases (up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message "Please enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to: ISPIClips at ama-gi.com . The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia (Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no government funding and takes a global perspective. ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research into electronic, personal and financial privacy with a view toward helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy. But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and generous financial support. If you are concerned about the erosion of your privacy in general, won't you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI Supporter" or by taking out an institute Membership? We gratefully accept all contributions: Less than $60 ISPI Supporter $60 - $99 Primary ISPI Membership (1 year) $100 - $300 Senior ISPI Membership (2 years) More than $300 Executive Council Membership (life) Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership. For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com . We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to any third party. **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From mgering at ecosystems.net Mon Nov 2 16:36:30 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:36:30 +0800 Subject: Bic-Assassins Convicted Message-ID: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B22A@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com> Typical statist media skewing by entangling allegations, accusation, speculation and acquitted charges with real convicted charges. --- [revised] Two men convicted of sending threatening email BROWNSVILLE, Texas (AP) -- Johnie Wise, 72, and Jack Abbott Grebe, 43, were convicted Thursday of two counts of sending threatening e-mails -- one message to the Internal Revenue Service and one to the Drug Enforcement Agency. They could get life in prison at their Jan. 29 sentencing. --- United States Constitution Amendment VIII - Excessive bail or fines and cruel punishment prohibited. Ratified 12/15/1791. Excessive bail shall not lie required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted. --- Life imprisonment for sending threatening email? If IRS or DEA agents threaten someone by email, do they face life imprisonment, or just the other way around? Matt -----Original Article----- CNN http://www.cnn.com/US/9810/30/weapons.case.ap/ Two men convicted in biological weapons case October 30, 1998 Web posted at: 3:10 a.m. EST (0810 GMT) BROWNSVILLE, Texas (AP) -- Two men accused of scheming to attack President Clinton and others with cigarette lighters equipped with poison-coated cactus needles were convicted of sending threatening e-mail. Johnie Wise, 72, and Jack Abbott Grebe, 43, were convicted Thursday of two counts of sending threatening e-mails -- one message to the Internal Revenue Service and one to the Drug Enforcement Agency. Grebe and Wise were acquitted on one count each of conspiracy to use weapons of mass destruction count and five counts each of sending threatening messages -- to President Clinton, U.S. Customs, the FBI, the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms, and the Secret Service. They could get life in prison at their Jan. 29 sentencing. Prosecutors said Wise schemed to modify a cigarette lighter so it would shoot cactus needles coated with toxins such as rabies, botulism, anthrax or HIV. Defense attorneys called idea 'silly' Among the men's alleged targets: Clinton, the U.S. and Texas attorneys general, and FBI Director Louis Freeh. Defense attorneys called the idea "silly" and "cockamamie." There was never any evidence that the accused possessed biological weapons or tried to develop a deadly lighter. The e-mailed threats were vaguely worded and did not discuss the lighter or cactus thorns. Under federal law, however, the threats were enough for a conviction and no biological weapons were needed, prosecutors said. The men would have carried out their plan to hurt government employees and their families if they hadn't been arrested, Assistant U.S. Attorney Mervyn Mosbacker said. Wise and Grebe were accused of concocting the plan to threaten government officials with e-mails. One e-mail, sent June 12, was titled "Declaration of War" and a second one, sent June 26, said government workers had been "targeted for destruction by revenge." A third defendant, Oliver Dean Emigh, 63, was acquitted on all counts. He was accused of writing the June 12 message, but the charges against the men stemmed from the June 26 e-mail. From vznuri at netcom.com Mon Nov 2 16:50:12 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:50:12 +0800 Subject: IP: [FP] The DoD DNA Registry and Specimen Repository Message-ID: <199811022344.PAA28432@netcom13.netcom.com> From: "ScanThisNews" Subject: IP: [FP] The DoD DNA Registry and Specimen Repository Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 11:49:05 -0600 To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com SCAN THIS NEWS 11/1/98 "The blood is placed on special cards with the service member's Social Security number, date of birth, and branch of service designated on the front side of the card. On the reverse side of the bloodstain card are a fingerprint, a bar code, and signature attesting to the validity of the sample." ************************************************** The DoD DNA Registry and DoD Specimen Repository for Remains Identification http://www.afip.org/homes/oafme/dna/afdil.html Historical Overview: The U.S. military recognized the value of DNA testing as a necessary adjunct to traditional identification efforts. In a memorandum dated December 16, 1991, the Deputy Secretary of Defense authorized the Assistant Secretary of Defense (Health Affairs) to establish policies and requirements for the use of DNA analysis in the identification of remains. To carry out these policies, the establishment of a DNA Registry, to include a Specimen Repository for Remains Identification and a DNA Identification Laboratory were authorized under the Office of the Armed Forces Medical Examiner (OAFME). On January 5, 1993, the Assistant Secretary of Defense (Health Affairs) issued a policy guidance for the establishment of a repository of specimen samples to aid in the remains identification using genetic analysis. On May 17, 1993, the Surgeon General, U.S. Army, was delegated as Executive Agent for the DNA Registry. On March 9, 1994, the Assistant Secretary of Defense (Health Affairs) issued a Memorandum of Instruction to the Service Secretaries establishing policies and procedures for the collection of DNA specimens. On April 2, 1996 policy refinements were issued to the DoD DNA Registry. In October 1994 the DNA Registry received approval from the American Society of Crime Laboratory Directors for the production of DNA proficiency tests used by forensic DNA laboratories. AFDIL is one of four DNA laboratories to receive this approval in the United States. In January 1995 the Defense Science Board concurred with the use of mitochondrial DNA testing for associated and unassociated remains. Although AFDIL is capable of conducting more common nuclear DNA testing, nuclear DNA testing is not possible on ancient remains. DoD Specimen Repository for Remains Identification The DoD DNA Specimen Repository provides reference material for DNA analysis to assist in the remains identification process. A dried bloodstain and buccal swab are being collected from all Active Component (AC) personnel. A total of three DNA specimens are collected. One bloodstain card is stored in a pouch in the service member's medical record; another bloodstain card and a buccal swab are stored at the Armed Forces Repository for Specimen Samples for the Identification of Remains. The blood is placed on special cards with the service member's Social Security number, date of birth, and branch of service designated on the front side of the card. On the reverse side of the bloodstain card are a fingerprint, a bar code, and signature attesting to the validity of the sample. Ultimately, the bloodstain card is stored in a vacuum-sealed barrier bag and frozen at -20 degrees Celsius, in the Specimen Repository. The oral swab (buccal scrapping) is fixed in isopropanol and stored at room temperature. Great care is taken to prevent the possibility of error from sample switching or mislabeling. Additionally, the specimens are considered confidential medical information, and military regulations and federal law exist to cover any issues on privacy concerns. As of December 1994, DNA collections were being made from all newly accessioned personnel, the residual AC members, and select high risk Reserve Component (RC) members. Large scale RC collection are scheduled to begin collection in FY 96. Collections are being made from any service member deployed to a hostile fire or imminent danger area. During CY 94, collections were made from personnel deploying to Somalia, Rwanda, Haiti, Bosnia, and Latin America. All services are at least 90% complete with collections of special operations, aviation, and high risk duty personnel. The remaining AC individuals will be collected through FY 98, at the time of their annual physical. As of 31 December 1995, the Repository has received 1.15 million DNA specimens. Specimens come into the Repository at the rate of 3,000 - 4,000 per day. The updated Specimen Management System (SMS), using the Defense Eligibility Enrollment System (DEERS) database, verifies service member information. In CY 95, the Repository established an on-line datalink with DEERS. All DNA specimens will be maintained for fifty years, before being destroyed. Individual specimen samples will be destroyed upon request of the donor following the conclusion of the donor's complete military service obligation (including individually ready reserve status or subject to active duty recall) or other applicable relationship to DoD. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- MEMORANDUM FOR ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF THE ARMY (M&RA) ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF THE NAVY (M&RA) ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF THE AIR FORCE (MRAI&E) SUBJECT: Casualty Identification Policy http://ippsrs.ha.osd.mil/main/caid9651.html July 18, 1996 References: (a) Deputy Secretary of Defense Memorandum 47003, "Establishment of a Repository of Specimen Samples to Aid in Remains Identification Using Genetic Deoxyribonucleic Acid (DNA) Analysis," 16 December 1991. (b) Assistant Secretary of Defense (Health Affairs) Memorandum and Policy Statement, "Establishment of a Repository of Specimen Samples to Aid in Remains Identification Using Genetic Deoxyribonucleic Acid (DNA) Analysis," 5 January 1993. (c) Assistant Secretary of Defense (Health Affairs) Memorandum, "Memorandum of Instruction of Procedures for the Collection and Shipment of Specimens for Submission to the Deoxyribonucleic Acid (DNA) Specimen Repository," 9 March 1994. (d) Privacy Act System of Records Notice for System A0040-57aDASG, "DoD DNA Registry," 60 Fed. Reg. 31, 287-8, 14 June 1995. (e) Assistant Secretary of Defense (Health Affairs) Memorandum, "Policy Refinements for the Armed Forces Repository of Specimen Samples for the Identification of Remains," 2 April 1996. Reference (a) delegated authority to the Assistant Secretary of Defense (Health Affairs) (ASD(HA)) to issue policies and requirements for the establishment of a registry and appropriate specimen repository that will aid in the remains identification process by the use of DNA profile analysis. References (b) and (c) established policies and procedures for operation of the repository. Reference (d) formalized the system of records for the repository. Reference (e) refined the policies for the operation of the repository. Primary casualty identification is fundamental to the elements of medicolegal death investigations and involves the use of one or more complementary methods including fingerprints, footprints, dental comparisons, DNA identifications and superimposable radiographic techniques. The duplicate dental panograph repository or Central Panograph Storage Facility (CPSF) in Monterey, California was established in 1986 and has been used more than 1000 times over the last ten years largely by DoD agencies with close to 100 percent success. In 1991, DoD embarked on the creation and implementation of a DNA Registry including the Armed Forces Repository of Specimen Samples for Identification of Remains and Armed Forces Casualty Identification Laboratory both of which are components of the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology (AFIP). The Repository accessions approximately 5,000 files/day with original plans of having all servicemembers (active, reserve and guard) on file by FY 2002. Comparative DNA casualty identification is now the DoD preferred standard of positive casualty identification, making the duplicate panograph obsolete. The CPSF will be discontinued on 31 December 1999. Therefore, I request that you take all necessary measures to ensure an accelerated acquisitions program of servicemember DNA specimens to include active, reserve and guard components for purposes of casualty DNA profile identification. A DNA sample should be obtained from all new accessions; duplicate panographs will not be taken on new accessions and no servicemember is to deploy without having a DNA specimen on file. The DEERS Data Bank shall be used to ensure that servicemembers do in fact have a DNA specimen on file. While updated radiographs will continue to be part of a servicemember's medical/dental record, no new radiographs will be received by the Repository, effective this date. Please provide me with a copy of your plan to implement this accelerated request by 23 August 1996. The point of contact for this action is Captain Glenn Wagner, Deputy Director, Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, (202) 782-2103. Colonel Salvatore M. Cirone is the OASD(HA) point of contact, (703) 695-7116. Stephen C. Joseph, M.D., M.P.H. cc: ASD(RA) HA POLICY 96-051 ************************************************** [Related info regarding DNA samples from children] ************************************************** New Guardian DNA Helps You Keep Your Baby Safe DNA Identification System Places State-of-the-Art Technology into Parents Hands Worried about hospital mix-ups or infant/child abductions? Guardian DNA Identification System consists of an easy-to-use DNA collection kit, an instructional safety video, a DNA sample storage facility, a recording system that provides for complete anonymity, and PIN/barcode security feature so that only parent authorized access is possible. Guardian DNA uses the same technology and methodology used by the U.S. Armed Forces. Collection can be performed at-home at any age, but for added newborn security parents will want to have one immediately after the birth. Retails for $49.95. Available through select hospitals and physicians, or by calling InVitro International at 1-800-246-8487 Ext. 230, or visit their web site at http://www.invitrointl.com/guardian.htm/ -------------------------------------------------- http://www.yellodyno.com/html/dnahome.html "Parents will feel more secure knowing they have their child's DNA 'fingerprints' safely stored away." - Dr. Martin H. Smith, Pediatrician and former President of the American Academy of Pediatrics DNA I.D. is, without question, the future of identification. For one thing, DNA I.D. (also known as "genetic fingerprinting") is the only virtually positive and permanent identification method. For example, photographs fade and must be updated, and fingerprints can smear or be difficult to acquire (getting a proper child's fingerprint can be very difficult), but each person's DNA does not change for his entire life. DNA (deoxyribonucleic acid) molecules are that part of the human physiology which carries the genetic "blueprint" that makes each person unique. Each person's "genetic" makeup is exclusive and never changes for their entire life. As such, "DNA fingerprinting" can provide reliable identification even when it may be impossible to recover a fingerprint. Further, DNA I.D. is generally admissible in court, and can be invaluable in reuniting parents with their children in the case of parental abductions, kidnappings, accidents, and natural disasters. DNA identification is now available to families in an easy-to-use, at-home kit. With the "do-it-yourself" DNA I.D.Kit, it takes parents only minutes to capture, preserve, and store-at-home their child's genetic "fingerprints." Tens of thousands of parents are already keeping their children's "genes" at home. The DNA I.D. Kit provides a way of properly taking, recording, and storing genetic samples in a patented, tamper-proof system. Yello Dyno says "O.K., this is where you might get a little 'squeemish,' but read on, because this is really cool and easy ... and something every parent needs to consider for their child (or any member of their family, for that matter!). This is how it works." The genetic material is derived from very small samples hair and blood. The kit includes a virtually painless, spring-loaded, medical quality puncture tool to help draw a few drops of blood from the finger, which is then placed on a special absorptive paper card. After air drying for a little while, the card is then placed in one of the special foil tamper-proof envelopes for preserving and storing, on which personal information is recorded. If you are too uncomfortable to use the puncture tool, the hair sample by itself should suffice, which is stored and recorded the same way. Many parents just take the kit to their pediatrician and have them draw the drops of blood. Then, a personal information card on your child is filled out, including attaching a picture. A fingerprint card is also included along with special fingerprinting material and instructions. After you are done, everything is then put in another, larger foil tamper-proof envelope and sealed. Personal information is then recorded on the envelope and it is ready to be put in a safe place. Unrefrigerated the samples should last for many years (they are dry). Refrigeration will extend viability of samples much longer. Unrefrigerated renewal is recommended once every five years. Again, this patented system is a way of properly taking, storing, and preserving genetic samples, not the actual test. If the DNA sample is ever needed to make a genetic match the process is usually initiated by law enforcement or some other agency. (Beware of suggestions to "make your own DNA I.D." While storing DNA samples at home can be simple with a specially made medical product like this, it can be completely ineffective without the right procedures.) The DNA I.D. Kit can also be a part of your at-home fact file. By combining an up-to-date child I.D. card and the DNA I.D. Kit, parents can have a valuable child identification system. DNA is so important to the future of identification that it is already being used by the FBI and the U.S. Armed Forces. In fact, DNA I.D. is the preferred method of identification for law enforcement, as seen in more and more court cases recently. "DNA Analysis . . . is considered the most important advance in forensics since fingerprinting. Its use in U.S. courts has skyrocketed from 14 cases by the end of 1987 to 12,000 by mid-1993," according to an article in the Austin-American Statesman in June 1994. The FBI is implementing a national DNA database, called CODIS, to track people by their DNA. The U.S. Army started a genetic depository in 1992 that will eventually include the DNA of every American in uniform. The U.S. Army's goal is to have no more "unknown soldiers." DNA is also already being used to identify missing children. For example, in December, 1993, a two-year old was returned to his parents two years after being kidnapped - only after police established scientifically who the child was by using "genetic fingerprinting." If you are ever separated from your child and time passes, DNA analysis is probably the only way of making a virtually fool-proof identification. This remarkable kit provides you with the tools you need. ======================================================================= Don't believe anything you read on the Net unless: 1) you can confirm it with another source, and/or 2) it is consistent with what you already know to be true. ======================================================================= Reply to: ======================================================================= To subscribe to the free Scan This News newsletter, send a message to and type "subscribe scan" in the BODY. Or, to be removed type "unsubscribe scan" in the message BODY. For additional instructions see www.efga.org/about/maillist.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "Scan This News" is Sponsored by S.C.A.N. Host of the "FIGHT THE FINGERPRINT!" web page: www.networkusa.org/fingerprint.shtml ======================================================================= **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Mon Nov 2 16:57:39 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:57:39 +0800 Subject: IP: Fatal Flaws: How military misled about Agent Orange Message-ID: <199811022344.PAA28421@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Fatal Flaws: How military misled about Agent Orange Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 11:41:36 -0600 To: believer at telepath.com Source: San Diego Union-Tribune http://www.union-tribune.com/news/981101-0010_mz1n1agent.html FATAL FLAWS How the military misled Vietnam veterans and their families about the health risks of Agent Orange UNION-TRIBUNE Staff Writer November 1, 1998 The U.S. military's $200 million study of the health effects of Agent Orange on Vietnam War veterans is so flawed that it might be useless, a six-month investigation by The San Diego Union-Tribune has found. The study has been a key factor in denying compensation to Vietnam veterans suffering from illnesses they blame on Agent Orange, a powerful herbicide used to destroy enemy crops and jungle hiding places. Interviews with military scientists, transcripts of meetings, and government reports and internal memos reveal that these are among the flaws in the Air Force study, which began in 1979 and concludes in 2006: Two study reports that revealed serious birth defects among children of veterans exposed to Agent Orange were withheld for years, leaving a generation of men and women who served in Vietnam to start families without knowing the potential risks. A report expressing concerns about cancer and birth defects was altered, with the result that the risks appeared less serious. The government ignored a National Academy of Sciences recommendation that the study be done by scientists outside the military. High-ranking Air Force officers interfered with the study' s data analysis, undermining its scientific integrity. The Air Force stonewalled a U.S. senator who wanted full disclosure of the data. Dr. Richard Albanese, one of four scientists who designed the study but later was taken off the project, says it was manipulated to downplay the health problems of Vietnam veterans. "This is a medical crime, basically," Albanese said. "Certainly, this is against all medical ethics." Albanese, a civilian doctor, still works at Brooks Air Force Base in San Antonio, where the study' s scientists are headquartered. When the Union-Tribune contacted him, Albanese weighed the consequences for several days and then agreed to a series of interviews in the hope that veterans will be treated better in the future. He said the study is tainted because a government agency, in this case the Air Force, was allowed to investigate itself. Joel Michalek, the study' s head scientist, acknowledged that the Air Force and the government tried to interfere, but he said this had no impact on the study. He said he received two memos through the chain of command that tried to influence the study, but threw them away. The study is named for Operation Ranch Hand, a series of Air Force missions that sprayed 18 million gallons of defoliants over 3.6 million acres of South Vietnam. The Ranch Hand study tracks the health of about 1,000 veterans who participated in the spraying missions, in comparison with an Air Force group that was not involved in the spraying. Both groups come to San Diego every few years for medical exams. Agent Orange contained dioxin, now known to cause some cancers. The defoliant destroyed forests and darkened the waters of the Mekong Delta, where Patti Robinson' s husband, Geoff, was a gunner' s mate on a Navy patrol boat in 1968-69. Robinson, who lives in Clairemont, said her husband described how the herbicide congealed and licked at river banks. But he told her the men bathed and swam in the water anyway; their superiors said it was safe. When her husband died of cancer in 1981, Robinson turned to the Veterans Administration for help. Her claim citing Agent Orange as a factor in her husband' s death also listed her son, Matthew, who was born in 1976 with a developmental disability. But the government told Robinson that Agent Orange did not cause her husband' s malignant melanoma, nor her son' s communication disorder. Or any other health problem for that matter. All claims were being denied. Agent Orange was innocent until proved guilty. The government had made that clear in 1978, after the first 500 claims came in. Garth Dettinger, an Air Force deputy surgeon general, told Congress there was no evidence that Agent Orange had harmed anyone. But concerns about the herbicide' s health effects had been raised since the early ' 70s, and the public wanted proof. So Congress funded the Ranch Hand study. Dettinger helped make sure it was done by Air Force scientists. Conflict of interest Although Dettinger wanted the Air Force to evaluate its use of Agent Orange, some of its scientists thought that might present a conflict of interest. Col. George Lathrop, head scientist for the Ranch Hand study in its early years, told a military science board in 1979 that an Air Force study wouldn' t be credible to people outside the government. "We advised a certain general that, ' No, we should not do this.' And we were told to shut up and do it anyway," Lathrop said, according to a transcript of the meeting. "So we are saluting the flag pole and mushing on. We are doing the damn thing." That general, Lathrop said in a recent interview, was Dettinger. "Dettinger had the notion that if we didn' t do this study that he would devise his own questionnaire and his own study and go out and get it done himself," Lathrop said. "It would have been scientifically disastrous." Dettinger denied ordering Lathrop to do the Ranch Hand study and said he never threatened to conduct his own version. "He' s not being honest about that," Dettinger said. "I promised Congress we would do the study. My word is my bond, and so we went ahead and did it." Albanese also worried that conflict of interest might affect the findings. But, at the time, he believed the danger could be offset by a rule written into the study design: Air Force management was not to interfere with the scientific analysis. The scientists weren' t the only ones with conflict-of-interest concerns. The National Academy of Sciences reviewed the study design in 1980 and recommended it be done by independent researchers. But a White House panel made up of representatives from the Pentagon and VA, among other federal agencies, said the Air Force would do it. The panel, called the Agent Orange Working Group, appointed an advisory committee to review Ranch Hand reports. But the committee did more directing than advising during the first decade of the study, Albanese said. Ranch Hand reports went from the Air Force to the advisory committee, then to the Agent Orange Working Group and back to the Air Force. Sources and documents indicate the reports were changed during that process, sometimes dramatically. Altered report The Air Force scientists drafted two major Ranch Hand reports in 1984. One of them was withheld. The other was published, but its findings were altered. The report that was withheld dealt specifically with reproductive health issues, and stressed birth defects and infant deaths. It showed high rates of both among children of Ranch Hand veterans. The report that was published examined the general health of Ranch Hand veterans. It presented data on birth defects, cancer and many other medical conditions. The Air Force announced that it showed little difference between the health of Ranch Hand and comparison veterans. But that wasn' t what the Ranch Hand scientists wrote. Their original version of the report contained a table showing that the Ranch Hand veterans were, by a ratio of 5-1, "less well" than the comparison group. That version also noted that Ranch Hand veterans reported significantly more birth defects among their children than did the other veterans. After the White House panel' s advisory committee reviewed the report, those details were downplayed or eliminated. Lathrop complied with the committee' s recommendations to omit the table, soften the birth defects language and drop a sentence that said Ranch Hand veterans might have been harmed by Agent Orange. Lathrop also deleted a sentence that said some of the findings were "of concern." He added a line that said the overall findings were "reassuring." Lathrop didn' t object to the changes, which he said were minor. "Fundamentally, the advisory group felt that we were too liberal on the interpretation," he said. Albanese, on the other hand, thought the changes distorted the report. He wrote a letter requesting that his views be published as a minority opinion, and kept a copy in his files. Lathrop, who didn' t respond to Albanese' s letter, said he doesn' t recall receiving it. Albanese and Lathrop also disagreed about how the cancer data were prepared and presented in the 1984 health report. Because the Ranch Hand group is too small for the scientists to draw conclusions about rare cancers, Albanese said, they decided to study the incidence of cancer as a whole. They found that the Ranch Hand veterans had twice as many cancers as the comparison group. But that didn' t make it into the report. Instead, skin and internal cancers were separated. Presented that way, the Ranch Hand group had 135 percent more skin cancers than the comparison group, but only 20 percent more internal cancers. The scientists reported the high skin cancer rate, but suggested it was caused by overexposure to the sun. They found "no significant group differences" in internal cancers. Within the small Ranch Hand group, Albanese said, the increase in internal cancers became a meaningless statistic. Albanese was outraged. "It happened that most cancers were in the skin, and the report said they were just in the skin," he said. "That' s not a correct inference." At the press conference that unveiled the 1984 health findings, Murphy Chesney, a deputy Air Force surgeon general at the time, announced that the health of the Ranch Hand and comparison veterans was about the same. In response to a question during that press conference, Albanese voiced a mild disagreement. Noting the higher incidence of some diseases, he said, "I cannot account for such differences by chance; on the other hand, I cannot explain their cause." He repeated to reporters a phrase that had been deleted from the report: "A degree of concern is warranted." Albanese was removed from the Ranch Hand study eight months later. The Air Force said he was needed on a different project. Sensitive information Albanese considered going public with his misgivings about the Ranch Hand study years ago, but decided against it. He didn' t want to jeopardize his career as a government scientist. Because of the study' s flaws, Albanese said, Vietnam veterans have not received the compensation they deserve. Lathrop said it was better not to release sensitive data from the Ranch Hand study prematurely, and nothing was more sensitive than information about birth defects. "There was a great deal riding on the issue of birth defects," he said. "The VA had not decided on the issue of compensation and so forth." After her husband died, Patti Robinson struggled to meet her son' s special needs. She needed the government compensation, but more than that, she needed the truth. "The uncertainty has left big question marks," she said. "If it wasn' t for that, you could put it behind you." Robinson never remarried. She devoted her life to her son, Matthew, who is 21 now, the age his father was in Vietnam. Matthew has the reading skills of a second-grader, and he has a hard time getting words out. But he can look at a photograph, identify a place he has been and offer directions to get there. He calls his mother by her first name and often refers to himself in the third person. He will say, "Patti, Matthew is stupid," and his mother will fire back, "No, you' re not." Matthew keeps a picture of his father in his bedroom. Sometimes he shows it to visitors. But pain registered on his face when he was asked what he remembers about the man who died so long ago. He turned away. "Matthew doesn' t want to talk about that," he said. In the private sector To reduce the workload of its scientists, the Air Force hired a private company to conduct Ranch Hand general health studies published since 1984. But the government has remained in charge. And the firm that won the first contract featured a familiar face. George Lathrop had retired from the Air Force and was working at the San Antonio office of Science Applications International Corp., a San Diego-based company that was founded on defense contracts. Lathrop said he wanted to continue working on the Ranch Hand study. He figured that with him on its team, SAIC would get the contract. It did. Lathrop left SAIC in 1987. The company went on to win the contracts for 1987, 1992, 1997 and 2002. It uses Scripps Clinic in La Jolla to perform the medical tests. Results are analyzed by SAIC, then sent to scientists at Brooks Air Force Base for approval. The SAIC contracts do not include compiling birth defects reports. The Air Force does that itself. By 1987, Ranch Hand had emerged as the government' s definitive Agent Orange study. "It was the pivotal study," said Michalek, Ranch Hand' s head scientist since 1991. "It still is." The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta tried to do its own study by matching records of troop movements with Agent Orange spraying. But after five years and nearly $50 million, the CDC decided its review method wasn' t reliable. After the CDC gave up in 1987, the government dismissed other studies that used similar exposure estimates. They were deemed unscientific. That left the Ranch Hand study as the government' s principal yardstick for Agent Orange damage. Pattern of manipulation South Dakota Sen. Tom Daschle, a Democrat, has kept an eye on the Ranch Hand study since the early 1980s. He was confident it would support his belief that Agent Orange harmed Vietnam veterans. When that hadn' t happened by 1984, when Daschle was a member of the House of Representatives, he decided to investigate. He assigned an aide, Laura Petrou, to help. They collected Air Force and other government correspondence and saw what they believed was a pattern of manipulation to minimize findings of health problems among Ranch Hand veterans. When Daschle learned about the unpublished 1984 birth defects report, he asked for a copy. The Air Force refused to give him one. Finally, in a letter to Daschle dated Aug. 25, 1987, the Air Force conceded that the cancer and birth defects information in the 1984 Ranch Hand health report -- the one Albanese said was distorted by advisory committee changes -- might be incorrect. Daschle then met with Albanese, Michalek and a third Ranch Hand scientist, Col. William H. Wolfe. They told Daschle about another unpublished report, which included some of the cancer and birth defects information that was left out of the 1984 general health report. Daschle fought to make the report public. The advisory committee argued that it was a rehash of old data. The report was released in February 1988, but it didn' t gain the attention Daschle had hoped. The Air Force deemed the report "technically correct" but did not publicize it or list it among Ranch Hand publications. One month after the report was released, Scripps Clinic issued a study update, a press release that said the Ranch Hand veterans were doing fine. It quoted Wolfe: "This is the definitive study on Agent Orange in Vietnam veterans, and so far it shows that disease is not related to apparent exposure, that there is no increased incidence of major long-term health effects. "These results are reassuring." ' Forbidden interpretation' Patti Robinson was not reassured. She had been attending meetings of San Diego veterans' groups and had read everything she could find on Agent Orange. Robinson also corresponded with retired Navy Adm. Elmo Zumwalt, who had ordered the spraying of Agent Orange along the Mekong Delta to kill vegetation where enemy snipers hid. His son, Navy Lt. j.g. Elmo Zumwalt III, had commanded a patrol boat in the Mekong Delta, the same waters Geoff Robinson had navigated. Former Lt. j.g. Zumwalt died of cancer in 1988. His son, Russell, was diagnosed with sensory integration dysfunction, the same communication disorder that plagues Patti Robinson' s son, Matthew. Robinson thought the Ranch Hand veterans and her husband were exposed to roughly equal amounts of Agent Orange. She believed the Ranch Hand study would be the one that would "prove how dangerous Agent Orange was." "I placed a high priority on that study," Robinson said. "I was disappointed in the results." The Air Force now regrets having described Ranch Hand findings as "reassuring," Michalek said. "That' s a forbidden interpretation," he said. "You can' t reassure anyone of anything in (statistical studies). You can only establish hazard, not safety." Daschle grew tired of fighting the Air Force on the Ranch Hand study. He tried to find other ways to help Vietnam veterans and their families. "Our whole point was if the government was controlling all the science and analyses veterans would never get compensated," Petrou said. Daschle, along with then-Sen. Alan Cranston, D-Calif., and Rep. Lane Evans, D-Ill., pushed legislation to compensate Vietnam veterans suffering from soft-tissue sarcoma and non-Hodgkin' s lymphoma. The bill also authorized the National Academy of Sciences to evaluate scientific and medical information about the health effects of Agent Orange. Earlier attempts to pass similar legislation had failed. But toward the end of 1990, with U.S. troops in the Persian Gulf, Congress was eager to help veterans. The Senate passed the bill Jan. 30, 1991, the day Camp Pendleton Marines led the first major ground battle of the Persian Gulf War. During a ceremony to announce the legislation, President Bush proclaimed: "We are here today to ensure that our nation will ever remember those who defended her, the men and women who stood where duty required them to stand." Undue influence? Murphy Chesney, a retired lieutenant general, was an important player in both the Ranch Hand study and the Ranch Hand spraying missions. In Vietnam, as the officer in charge of the health and safety of Air Force personnel, he could have recommended against spraying herbicides if he thought they might be dangerous. But he shared the then-prevailing opinion that Agent Orange, named for the color of the stripe around its 55-gallon storage containers, wouldn' t hurt the troops. After the war, he oversaw the Ranch Hand study from 1979 until he was promoted to Air Force surgeon general in 1985. Chesney couldn' t say whether his role in Operation Ranch Hand influenced his decisions in the Ranch Hand study. "I hope it didn' t," he said in an interview. But Albanese, who worked on the study during the years Chesney was involved, believes it did. He recalled a dispute with a colleague, Wolfe, over data analysis. Chesney sided with Wolfe. "Then," Albanese said, "Gen. Chesney pulled me aside and said, ' If I had to accept your analysis, I' m not sure I could live with myself.' "I could see the water in his eyes. "He said he had approved some of those spraying activities." Chesney said no such conversation took place. But Chesney did remember ordering the scientists to comply with advisory committee recommendations, although such influence by the Air Force is prohibited by the rules of the study design. Looking back, Albanese said, it should have been obvious that the conflict of interest was too strong for the study to be objective. "There' s a faction that doesn' t want to pay the price of treating the veterans," he said, "and a faction that doesn' t want to have made them sick." Birth defects acknowledged In August 1992, the Air Force finally published a Ranch Hand birth defects report. Michalek said the Air Force had withheld the 1984 birth defects report because the advisory committee said it was incomplete. Ranch Hand scientists had verified records of babies with birth defects, but had not yet checked the healthy ones. In the draft of the report, the scientists wrote that it would take about a year to verify records of the healthy babies. But eight years passed before a report came out. The 1992 report confirmed the high rate of birth defects and infant deaths among children fathered by Ranch Hand veterans. But the scientists wrote that because the birth defects did not increase consistently with dioxin exposure, Agent Orange wasn' t to blame. But that might be inaccurate, the National Academy of Sciences concluded in 1994. The academy criticized the Ranch Hand study and singled out the 1992 birth defects report as an example of its many flaws. "It was confusing how the analysis of the birth defects was presented," said Kathleen Rodgers, one of 16 contributors to the National Academy of Sciences study, "Veterans and Agent Orange." "I remember being incensed at the time that we couldn' t get anything out of it," said Rodgers, an associate professor at the University of Southern California School of Medicine. The Air Force scientists, examining a study group that was small to begin with, had omitted hundreds of subjects from the analysis, the academy said. That made it harder to connect birth defects to Agent Orange. Or easier not to. "Some aspect of the Ranch Hand experience seems to have increased the risk of fathering children with birth defects," the academy report said, "but the implications of this finding are unclear." The Air Force, of course, knew that 10 years earlier but sat on the information. "It' s the worst thing I have ever seen from the point of view of medical reporting," Albanese said. Releasing the data In recent years, as the Agent Orange controversy has faded from the public' s consciousness, the Ranch Hand advisory committee' s role has diminished. During its meeting last week in San Antonio -- the first such gathering since 1995 -- Michalek briefed the committee on the Union-Tribune' s investigation of the study. Michalek asked Albanese to detail his concerns about unpublished data and government interference. Afterward, Albanese suggested that the raw Ranch Hand data be made public, repeating an idea he has advocated for years. That way, he said, researchers outside the military might come up with new and useful analyses. Advisory committee Chairman Robert W. Harrison recommended that everything should be released, except for information that would violate the confidentiality of the subjects. Michalek said he would comply. Harrison, a professor of medicine at the University of Rochester, said that he and his colleagues on the panel should start looking more closely at how the study is conducted and its findings. Expanded compensation Last year, the Air Force announced its first link between Agent Orange and a serious illness. The Ranch Hand veterans have a higher rate of diabetes. Air Force scientists saw the diabetes increase in 1992 but waited five years to make it public. Michalek said they wanted to be sure. The delay came as no surprise to Daschle and his aide, Petrou, who are still upset with the Air Force for withholding information about cancer and birth defects. "Delay is clearly their major tactic," Petrou said. "The delay is justice denied. It' s extremely disturbing. "From a public health perspective and from a moral perspective in terms of how we treat veterans, there' s no excuse good enough for this." Daschle has given up on the Ranch Hand study. But he has worked around it with some success. The National Academy of Sciences has continued its investigation, examining studies of Vietnam veterans and those of civilians exposed to dioxin in industrial accidents. As the academy links additional diseases to dioxin, more Vietnam veterans get help. The VA -- now the Department of Veterans Affairs -- has expanded its Agent Orange compensation list to 10 diseases, mostly cancers. Spina bifida, a serious spinal deformity, is the only birth defect on the list so far. As of April, the VA had received 92,276 Agent Orange claims from veterans and their survivors. Claims approved for diseases on the compensation list totaled 5,908. Patti Robinson remains a part of the larger group. The academy hasn' t found enough evidence that Agent Orange caused malignant melanoma, the cancer that took her husband. Which leaves Robinson where she was 15 years ago. She still believes Agent Orange killed her husband and disabled her son. But she can' t be sure. And that' s what really hurts, she said. "Look at all the years that have gone by, and there' s still no clear-cut answer." Copyright 1998 Union-Tribune Publishing Co. ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Mon Nov 2 17:08:33 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:08:33 +0800 Subject: Bic-Assassins Convicted (fwd) Message-ID: <199811030021.SAA02609@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: Matthew James Gering > Subject: RE: Bic-Assassins Convicted > Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:57:43 -0800 > BROWNSVILLE, Texas (AP) -- Johnie Wise, 72, and Jack Abbott > Grebe, 43, were convicted Thursday of two counts of sending > threatening e-mails -- one message to the Internal Revenue > Service and one to the Drug Enforcement Agency. > > They could get life in prison at their Jan. 29 sentencing. I have a question, if they had threatened just a plain old citizen with this email would they also be facing this life imprisonment? ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jya at pipeline.com Mon Nov 2 18:29:18 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:29:18 +0800 Subject: Bic-Assassins Convicted (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199811030021.SAA02609@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199811030150.UAA07116@camel14.mindspring.com> Jim Choate asked: >If they had threatened just a plain old citizen with this >email would they also be facing this life imprisonment? Apparently the charges would have been the same if made against any "person within the United States, and the results of such use affect interstate or foreign commerce or, in the case of a threat, attempt, or conspiracy, would have affected interstate or foreign commerce." (see below) The use of E-mail was incidental to the charges of both conspiracy and threatening to use weapons of mass destruction: 18:2332(a)(2) and (c)(2)(C). Conspiracy to use a weapon of mass destruction against person(s) w/in the U.S. the results of which affected interstate & foreign commerce. Offense dates: 3/24/98 - 6/30/98. Penalty: Any term of years or for life, $250,000, 5 yrs SRT. (1) 18:2332a(a)(2) and (c)(2)(C) and 2. Threatening to use a weapon of mass destruction. Offense date: 6/26/98 Penalty: any term of years or Proceedings include all events. for life, $250,000, 5 yrs SRT as to ea ct. (2 - 8) The eight counts are for the one count of conspiracy and threats against seven federal agencies ("employees and families"): The President ATF FBI DEA IRS Secret Service Custom Service ---------- The crimes are defined in 18 USC 2332a, below. Source: http://law.house.gov/usc.htm ---------- TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE PART I - CRIMES CHAPTER 113B - TERRORISM Sec. 2332a. Use of weapons of mass destruction (a) Offense Against a National of the United States or Within the United States. - A person who, without lawful authority, uses, threatens, or attempts or conspires to use, a weapon of mass destruction, including any biological agent, toxin, or vector (as those terms are defined in section 178) - (2) against any person within the United States, and the results of such use affect interstate or foreign commerce or, in the case of a threat, attempt, or conspiracy, would have affected interstate or foreign commerce; ---------- (c) Definitions. - For purposes of this section - (2) the term ''weapon of mass destruction'' means - (A) any destructive device as defined in section 921 of this title; (B) any weapon that is designed or intended to cause death or serious bodily injury through the release, dissemination, or impact of toxic or poisonous chemicals, or their precursors; (C) any weapon involving a disease organism; or (D) any weapon that is designed to release radiation or radioactivity at a level dangerous to human life. ---------- CHAPTER 10 - BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS Sec. 178. Definitions As used in this chapter - (1) the term ''biological agent'' means any micro-organism, virus, infectious substance, or biological product that may be engineered as a result of biotechnology, or any naturally occurring or bioengineered component of any such microorganism, virus, infectious substance, or biological product, capable of causing - (A) death, disease, or other biological malfunction in a human, an animal, a plant, or another living organism; (B) deterioration of food, water, equipment, supplies, or material of any kind; or (C) deleterious alteration of the environment; (2) the term ''toxin'' means the toxic material of plants, animals, microorganisms, viruses, fungi, or infectious substances, or a recombinant molecule, whatever its origin or method of production, including - (A) any poisonous substance or biological product that may be engineered as a result of biotechnology produced by a living organism; or (B) any poisonous isomer or biological product, homolog, or derivative of such a substance; (3) the term ''delivery system'' means - (A) any apparatus, equipment, device, or means of delivery specifically designed to deliver or disseminate a biological agent, toxin, or vector; or (B) any vector; (4) the term ''vector'' means a living organism, or molecule, including a recombinant molecule, or biological product that may be engineered as a result of biotechnology, capable of carrying a biological agent or toxin to a host; and (5) the term ''national of the United States'' has the meaning prescribed in section 101(a)(22) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(22)). ---------- Crime of 18 USC 2 not shown. From tcmay at got.net Mon Nov 2 18:40:16 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:40:16 +0800 Subject: Bic-Assassins Convicted (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199811030021.SAA02609@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: At 4:21 PM -0800 11/2/98, Jim Choate wrote: >Forwarded message: > >> From: Matthew James Gering >> Subject: RE: Bic-Assassins Convicted >> Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:57:43 -0800 > >> BROWNSVILLE, Texas (AP) -- Johnie Wise, 72, and Jack Abbott >> Grebe, 43, were convicted Thursday of two counts of sending >> threatening e-mails -- one message to the Internal Revenue >> Service and one to the Drug Enforcement Agency. >> >> They could get life in prison at their Jan. 29 sentencing. > >I have a question, if they had threatened just a plain old citizen with >this email would they also be facing this life imprisonment? > A very good point. I've had cretins make death threats against me, threats which were probably more realizable than these "Bic assassins" were fantasizing about, yet I'm sure the local cops would have told me to chill out and just let it ride had I brought the threats to their attention. It sure is looking, pace this case and the Bell and CJ cases, that the courts are being put at the service of government employees who feel threatened. --Tim May Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From shamrock at netcom.com Mon Nov 2 19:17:40 1998 From: shamrock at netcom.com (Lucky Green) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:17:40 +0800 Subject: s-format file converter? Message-ID: <000d01be06d4$f42d5e80$33248bd0@luckylaptop.c2.net> I need to convert some files stored in Motorola s-format (widely used for input into EPROM burners) to a binary blob of data my debugger can read. I know there is a GNU utility that supports converting to and from s-format and a wide variety of other file formats, but a web search turned up empty. If you know where to find such a utility for UNIX, please let me know. Thanks, --Lucky Green PGP 5.x encrypted email preferred From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Mon Nov 2 19:21:14 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:21:14 +0800 Subject: Bic-Assassins Convicted (fwd) Message-ID: <199811030242.UAA02938@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 20:41:24 -0500 > From: John Young > Subject: RE: Bic-Assassins Convicted (fwd) > Jim Choate asked: > > >If they had threatened just a plain old citizen with this > >email would they also be facing this life imprisonment? > > Apparently the charges would have been the same if made > against any > > "person within the United States, and the results of such > use affect interstate or foreign commerce or, in the case > of a threat, attempt, or conspiracy, would have affected > interstate or foreign commerce." (see below) Ok, exactly how would their threat effect inter-state commerce? > The use of E-mail was incidental to the charges of both > conspiracy and threatening to use weapons of mass destruction: > > 18:2332(a)(2) and (c)(2)(C). Conspiracy to use a weapon > of mass destruction against person(s) w/in the U.S. > the results of which affected interstate & foreign > commerce. Offense dates: 3/24/98 - 6/30/98. Penalty: > Any term of years or for life, $250,000, 5 yrs SRT. (1) Conspiracy requires active steps, not simply talking about it. As I understand it the conspiracy and weapons of mass destructions charges were given a not-guilty by the jury. No proof was presented that they had ever even bought a bic lighter to test with. Hell, even going to the bookstore and buying a book or the library and checking one out is protected under the Constitution. It takes more than talk to generate a conspiracy. > 18:2332a(a)(2) and (c)(2)(C) and 2. Threatening to use a > weapon of mass destruction. Offense date: 6/26/98 > Penalty: any term of years or Proceedings include all events. > for life, $250,000, 5 yrs SRT as to ea ct. (2 - 8) If we're going to go by this then the US government is already guilty re their plan to destroy various contraband plants via genetic weapons. If you think that won't effect inter-state & international commerce you better think again. And they've gone a lot farther than just talking about it in email. Congress has spent millions on it over the last few years. > The eight counts are for the one count of conspiracy and > threats against seven federal agencies ("employees and > families"): > > The President > ATF > FBI > DEA > IRS > Secret Service > Custom Service Ok, so my question still stands what if these had been actual people instead of government agencies? The charges are *NOT* for threatening individuals who happen to be government agents, oh no, they're for threatening government *agencies* a whole different ball game ('The President' is an office not a person). > CHAPTER 113B - TERRORISM > > Sec. 2332a. Use of weapons of mass destruction > > (a) Offense Against a National of the United States or Within the > United States. - A person who, without lawful authority, uses, > threatens, or attempts or conspires to use, a weapon of mass > destruction, including any biological agent, toxin, or vector (as > those terms are defined in section 178) - Where is 'lawful authority' defined? > (2) against any person within the United States, and the > results of such use affect interstate or foreign commerce or, in > the case of a threat, attempt, or conspiracy, would have affected > interstate or foreign commerce; I covered this one already. > (c) Definitions. - For purposes of this section - > > (2) the term ''weapon of mass destruction'' means - > > (A) any destructive device as defined in section 921 of this > title; > > (B) any weapon that is designed or intended to cause death or > serious bodily injury through the release, dissemination, or > impact of toxic or poisonous chemicals, or their precursors; > > (C) any weapon involving a disease organism; or So if I go out and sneeze on somebody I've committed an attack using a weapon of mass destruction? > (D) any weapon that is designed to release radiation or > radioactivity at a level dangerous to human life. Where is the definition of 'mass' in there? Hell, just about anything qualifies under this definition. It doesn't even require the death of 1 single individual (it doesn't even require it to be lethal). Oh, *all* radiation is harmful to human life. > CHAPTER 10 - BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS > Sec. 178. Definitions > > As used in this chapter - > > (1) the term ''biological agent'' means any micro-organism, > virus, infectious substance, or biological product that may be > engineered as a result of biotechnology, or any naturally > occurring or bioengineered component of any such microorganism, > virus, infectious substance, or biological product, capable of > causing - > > (A) death, disease, or other biological malfunction in a > human, an animal, a plant, or another living organism; Well this certainly covers each and every effect of a pathogen on a biological system (I particularly like the way they've covered their butts for ET.... 'another living organism'. Not to mention that cleaning your kitchen counter qualifies under this statute. > (B) deterioration of food, water, equipment, supplies, or > material of any kind; or > > (C) deleterious alteration of the environment; Well at least they've set themselves up for their anti-drug pathogen program. > (2) the term ''toxin'' means the toxic material of plants, Can you say circular defintion, I thought you could. This sentence say nothing. > animals, microorganisms, viruses, fungi, or infectious > substances, or a recombinant molecule, whatever its origin or > method of production, including - > > (A) any poisonous substance or biological product that may be > engineered as a result of biotechnology produced by a living > organism; or > > (B) any poisonous isomer or biological product, homolog, or > derivative of such a substance; This of course happens to cover plain old water (re 'whatever its origin or method of preduction'). > (3) the term ''delivery system'' means - > > (A) any apparatus, equipment, device, or means of delivery > specifically designed to deliver or disseminate a biological > agent, toxin, or vector; or > > (B) any vector; > > (4) the term ''vector'' means a living organism, or molecule, > including a recombinant molecule, or biological product that may > be engineered as a result of biotechnology, capable of carrying a > biological agent or toxin to a host; and Next time I get food-poisoning at a restaraunt it's comforting to know that the federal government will be right there to prosecute under this particular statute... Geesh. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From explorer at netcom.com Tue Nov 3 11:25:12 1998 From: explorer at netcom.com (explorer at netcom.com) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:25:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199811031924.LAA01821@toad.com> 11/03/98 INTERNET NEWS/Y2K (YEAR 2000 SOLUTION) Most of the information from the silicon valley is obtained from the local pubs/bars. Un-named sources discussing the Y2K problem at the local brew revealed, that 2 of the big valley software manufacturers are in a bidding war for software technology created by a small publicly traded company OTC-BB symbol:"TCFG" that is in the process of obtaining a patent. This 3 year old emerging growth company has tested and out performed the "Big Boys"! Several rogue ex-employees of the "giants" joined this company and claims abound about their success. If truth is stronger than fiction then "TCFG" is going to play with the big boys. We all know the Y2K problem and what the real solution would mean to all of us $$! How much will they pay "TCFG"? Back to the pub friday evening for more info... From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Mon Nov 2 19:25:35 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:25:35 +0800 Subject: s-format file converter? (fwd) Message-ID: <199811030250.UAA03074@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: "Lucky Green" > Subject: s-format file converter? > Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 18:52:11 -0800 > I need to convert some files stored in Motorola s-format (widely used for > input into EPROM burners) to a binary blob of data my debugger can read. I > know there is a GNU utility that supports converting to and from s-format > and a wide variety of other file formats, but a web search turned up empty. > > If you know where to find such a utility for UNIX, please let me know. Geesh. If you know it's GNU then it makes some sense to check gnu.org now wouldn't it? You might also want to check out the 'frankenstein' set of cross-assemblers as they handle a wide variety of targets and file formats. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Mon Nov 2 19:43:31 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:43:31 +0800 Subject: CJ & a potential out... Message-ID: <199811030301.VAA03145@einstein.ssz.com> It occurs to me that since the court saw fit to assign an attorney over CJ's objection he may have constitutional grounds to have his arrest and the consequential proceedings overturned. The Constitution says that a person has a right to counsil if the issue at hand is worth more than $20. It doesn't say the court must appoint one and it most certainly doesn't say a defendent requires one. Since the Constitution leaves the issue up to the defendant any action that is contrary to their desires is un-constitutional. The 10th prohibits these sorts of excess or self-appointed authority. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From totaltel at total.emap.com Mon Nov 2 19:43:46 1998 From: totaltel at total.emap.com (totaltel at total.emap.com) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:43:46 +0800 Subject: ITU In Knots Over Accounting Rates Message-ID: <98Nov3.035048gmt.28558@ebc-fw-01.emap.com> Welcome to the Total Telecom news update. http://www.totaltele.com ------------------------------------- today's top story:- ITU In Knots Over Accounting Rates Developed and developing countries were in a deadlock over how to reform the international accounting rate system at the International Telecommunication Union Plenipotentiary Conference in Minneapolis .... http://www.totaltele.com/news/view.asp?ArticleID=20393&Pub=tt ***************************************** Total Telecom - site update As part of a larger effort to improve the service, we have moved Total Telecom to a new server and database over the weekend. This should result in faster download times and improved searches for our readers. However, as a result, a few readers may experience a few problems entering the site. We apologize for any inconvenience. Please email us if you are experiencing any difficulties. webmaster at total.emap.com ***************************************** current Total Telecom headlines include..... Cegetel Subdued by Slow Uptake and ART's Ruling Cegetel Entreprises, the corporate user division of France's second telecoms operator, is braced for heavy losses this year due to slower than expected customer uptake and France Telecom's aggressive ........ http://www.totaltele.com/news/view.asp?ArticleID=20394&Pub=tt ------------------ Pay-Per-Slot Likely for Satellite Reform The International Telecommunication Union Plenipotentiary conference in Minneapolis will this week hear a proposal to break a 10-nation stranglehold on world satellite systems. Under the plan, still ...... http://www.totaltele.com/news/view.asp?ArticleID=20397&Pub=tt ---------------- First Pacific in Talks to Buy More PLDT Shares First Pacific Co. said it bought a "strategic stake" in Philippine Long Distance Telephone Co. and may buy more, transactions that will cost at least $724 million. First Pacific, a Hong Kong-based in http://www.totaltele.com/news/view.asp?ArticleID=20396&Pub=tt --------------- France Telecom to Sell 15% Stake of Greece's Panafon in IPO Panafon SA, Greece's largest mobile phone company, said France Telecom SA will sell a 15% stake in the company through an initial public offering that may raise as much as $600 million. Panafon, 55%-...... http://www.totaltele.com/news/view.asp?ArticleID=20395&Pub=tt ---------------- plus NTT President Apologizes for Service Break in Osaka Diax Mobile Phone Services May Not Start Until February Iridium to Begin Satellite-Phone Network Sunday AsiaSat Owners Discuss Reshuffle of Holdings: C&W May Exit Deutsche Telekom Hit by New Price War ITU Plenipot 98 Plays Paper Satellite Ping-Pong US Bids for Internet Domain Name Control .....go to the front page for the full list of headlines http://www.totaltele.com ******************************************** If you wish to be removed from future mailings, please reply with "Remove" in the subject line and we will automatically block you from this list. Thank you for reading Total Telecom From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Mon Nov 2 20:17:39 1998 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:17:39 +0800 Subject: s-format file converter? (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199811030250.UAA03074@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Nov 1998, Jim Choate wrote: > > Forwarded message: > > > From: "Lucky Green" > > Subject: s-format file converter? > > Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 18:52:11 -0800 > > > I need to convert some files stored in Motorola s-format (widely used for > > input into EPROM burners) to a binary blob of data my debugger can read. I > > know there is a GNU utility that supports converting to and from s-format > > and a wide variety of other file formats, but a web search turned up empty. > > > > If you know where to find such a utility for UNIX, please let me know. > > Geesh. If you know it's GNU then it makes some sense to check gnu.org now > wouldn't it? Which is of course what I did before sending my inquiry to the list. Nada. > You might also want to check out the 'frankenstein' set of cross-assemblers > as they handle a wide variety of targets and file formats. Hmm, I can find them only for MSDOS. Do you have a pointer to a UNIX version? Thanks, -- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. From mmotyka at lsil.com Mon Nov 2 20:36:34 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:36:34 +0800 Subject: dbts: Lions and TEMPESTs and Black Helicopters (Oh, My!) Message-ID: <363E80C1.4084@lsil.com> > "Awwwww, C'Monnnn. Niiiice taxpayer. Staaaaay. *Don't* go anywhere. > Pleeeeease?" > *** By and large I agree with you, the fears of TotalControl(tm) are largely unfounded. Abuses do exist. Always have. *** These unregulated virtual economies need to conduct trade with ActualPhysicalSpace. The interface is where the control will be exerted. If you can't safely convert your LibertE$ to physical goods their value will be quite low. Participation will be limited. Also, as the TaxAorta becomes occluded the TaxDoctors will have to devote more energy and use more drastic methods to keep the flow going. Mike From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Mon Nov 2 21:51:11 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:51:11 +0800 Subject: Frankenstein should be avail. for Unix (S-Records) Message-ID: <199811030512.XAA03612@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > X-within-URL: http://vanbc.wimsey.com/~danf/cbm/cross-development.html > $ Cross-32 V2.0 Meta Assembler [DOS] (Universal Cross-Assemblers) > Table-based absolute macro cross assembler using manufacturer's > assembly mnemonics. Supports macros and conditional assembly. > Uses C language arithmetic and logical operators. Includes > tables for 6502, 65C02, 65816 and >40 other CPUs and can be > expanded to even more. Generates Intel hex, Motorola S hex and > binary output. Expensive (~$200). > On-line program information is available. > On-line program information is available. > (demo version) > Frankenstein Cross Assemblers [source,DOS,UNIX] (1990, Mark Zenier) > No macros, relocatable linkers, fancy print controls or > structured control statments. Source code in Yacc and C > included. Executables are called as6502, as65c00 and asr65c00. > On-line program information is available. > On-line program information is available. > Available from the C Users' Group Library, disk #335. > 901206.02/3/4, 901209.07/8> > ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Mon Nov 2 21:52:53 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:52:53 +0800 Subject: A Motorola site w/ potentialy relevant info (S-Records) Message-ID: <199811030510.XAA03557@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > X-within-URL: http://www.mcu.motsps.com/freeweb/amcu_ndx.html > as-080.dp 43197 Mar 30 94 Understanding S-Records & Downloading > XASMHC11.MAC 49024 Mar 30 94 This is the Motorola Free cross- > assembler ported to the Mac by Georgia Tech. Use MacBinary to download > this Macintosh application. [Uploaded by Jim Sibigtroth.] > AN1060Q.BAS> 8083 Mar 30 94 This is the BASIC source code for AN1060. > This program allows S-records to be downloaded & programmed into a > M68HC711E9 EPROM/MCU (OTP also). This program was written in > QuickBasic and works with a MAC or a PC. [Uploaded by Jim Sibigtroth.] > as32v1-2.zip 52176 Mar 30 94 Latest rev. of CPU32 Freeware assembler > for PC. Minor bug fixes. Now generates symbol table for BD32 > background mode debugger. > asembler.arc 42839 Mar 30 94 source files for cross assemblers and > doc. > as0.c 214 Mar 30 94 --+ source code for assemblers: > eval.c 4089 Mar 30 94 | source code common to all assemblers > downld.doc 1417 Mar 30 94 1.2 Downloading S-Records Hints (RCV cmd) > downldpc.doc 20075 Mar 30 94 1.4 Download S-Recs w/IBM-PC, > Kermit/ProComm > libsrc11.arc 35692 Mar 30 94 n/a M68HC11 Cross C Compiler Library > Source The above.archive file contains all the library source files > for the HC11 Cross C Compiler (MS-DOS and System V). > sack.sa 651 Mar 30 94 1.1 S-Record Acknowledge Program (Pascal) ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody at replay.com Mon Nov 2 22:18:23 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 14:18:23 +0800 Subject: instruments of liberation (continuing 'fear' thread) Message-ID: <199811030549.GAA22305@replay.com> At 11:22 PM 11/1/98 -0800, Tim May wrote: >"Wired News" carried an article reporting on a plan to (somehow) spread Wired recently had pix/columns on Rivest and Schneier. This is how crypto will get into the popmind: through sophisticated deadtrees like this read by propeller heads *and* suits. The Cryptos talk of the economy, of keeping crackers out, of personal privacy. The list of good uses will grow. The Fascistas will be stuck with only their dealers and the vaporrists, vapornappers, vaporophiles they will continue to worship. Eventually, the Sheeple will grok what's being argued over. The rest depends on your optimism level. --Wasted Hellions Trace my Bugs From bill.stewart at pobox.com Tue Nov 3 00:15:23 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 16:15:23 +0800 Subject: Bic-Assassins Convicted (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199811030242.UAA02938@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981102233532.008b2d80@idiom.com> At 08:42 PM 11/2/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote, though not in this order: >> (c) Definitions. - For purposes of this section - >> (2) the term ''weapon of mass destruction'' means - [...] >> (B) any weapon that is designed or intended to cause death or >> serious bodily injury through the release, dissemination, or >> impact of toxic or poisonous chemicals, or their precursors; >> (C) any weapon involving a disease organism; or ... >Where is the definition of 'mass' in there? Hell, just about anything >qualifies under this definition. It doesn't even require the death of 1 >single individual (it doesn't even require it to be lethal). My reading is the same as yours - the law was written carelessly, and wrong (unless JYA forgot the paragraph defining "mass" as "intended to kill more than N people", but it doesn't look like it.) That means that any chemical weapon, including your can of mace or pepper spray, that might be construed as causing "serious bodily injury", makes you a terrorist using weapons of mass destruction. Might get worse - lead _is_ toxic, and causes injury by impact. It's a bad law, and it's going to be abused, and this case is a great one for the Feds to use to set bad precedent with, since the Republic of Texas are a bunch of incompetent wackos. >> CHAPTER 113B - TERRORISM >> Sec. 2332a. Use of weapons of mass destruction >> (a) Offense Against a National of the United States or Within the >> United States. - A person who, without lawful authority, uses, >> threatens, or attempts or conspires to use, a weapon of mass >> destruction, including any biological agent, toxin, or vector (as >> those terms are defined in section 178) - > >Where is 'lawful authority' defined? Not sure, but it means that the Feds aren't terrorists if _they_ threaten or conspire to use weapons of mass destruction, but you would be if you did. It also probably means that foreign governments aren't covered here, but foreign NGOs are, e.g. the IRA. >> interstate commerce The standard clause used to give the Feds jurisdiction over things; given Roosevelt-era courts deciding that a farmer feeding his own grain to his own hogs affects interstate commerce, surely email or the World Wide Web counts as interstate, as does killing anybody who might cross state lines or buy some product that does. (Of course, given the number of politicians who are for sale, removing a few of them from the market can pretty legitimately be called affecting interstate commerce :-) Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From narry at geocities.com Tue Nov 3 02:56:47 1998 From: narry at geocities.com (Narayan Raghu) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 18:56:47 +0800 Subject: new 448 bit key by Indian firm In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <363E2E8F.EE570559@geocities.com> Hello, Sorry for any cross-posting. Just thought this group would be interested in this new s/w. The most startling thing about it is the price Rs. 1,650. (approx US$ 40) per copy ... I'll be at the Bangalore IT fair morrow, and will try to give a first hand update of this stuff after meeting with the reps. http://www.timesofindia.com/031198/03mban19.htm Indian firm unveils 448-bit encryption package It is called EMD Armor -- an award-winning encryption software package using a powerful 448-bit key, developed by an Indian company. It beats the United States at its own game, for, even today, US companies are not allowed to export encryption software that uses keys higher than 128 bits. -- snip ---- EMD Armor, which is used to secure your personal computer, also goes by the name of Sigma 2000. It has picked up the Editors Choice award. The product range covers security for PCs, e-mail, networks. `Our product combines the highest key strength, fast encryption speed (60 MB per minute), and online encryption. That means non-encyrpted data is never stored on your hard disk. Anything that is there is encrypted. Complete security,'' says Kundu. -- snip -- K. Kundu, Signitron India Director, an IIT Kharagpur alumni, told The Times of India that the key algorithm they have used is `Blowfish', developed by cryptography guru Bruce Schneir. regards, narry From rah at shipwright.com Tue Nov 3 05:56:17 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:56:17 +0800 Subject: dbts: Lions and TEMPESTs and Black Helicopters (Oh, My!) In-Reply-To: <363E80C1.4084@lsil.com> Message-ID: At 11:04 PM -0500 on 11/2/98, Michael Motyka lobs a low, slow one, over the plate: > These unregulated virtual economies need to conduct trade with > ActualPhysicalSpace. Oh. That's easy. Check out the essay section of for a good prima facie underwriting model for digital bearer instruments, expecially the model map. Render unto FinCEN. No problem. Flatland can't reach the sky no matter how hard they try. (hey. I'm rapping... pbbbt. tht. pbbbt. pbbbt. tht... :-)) Cheers, Bob ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Tue Nov 3 05:57:10 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:57:10 +0800 Subject: Bic-Assassins Convicted (fwd) Message-ID: <199811031315.HAA04306@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 23:35:32 -0800 > From: Bill Stewart > Subject: RE: Bic-Assassins Convicted (fwd) > >Where is 'lawful authority' defined? > > Not sure, but it means that the Feds aren't terrorists if _they_ > threaten or conspire to use weapons of mass destruction, > but you would be if you did. It also probably means that > foreign governments aren't covered here, but foreign NGOs are, > e.g. the IRA. That's truly funny.... "We the people in order to form a more perfect union...." How does the federal government gain priviliges and immunities (ala 16th) that aren't defined in the Constitution or an amendment? (see 9th and 10th) > >> interstate commerce > The standard clause used to give the Feds jurisdiction over things; > given Roosevelt-era courts deciding that a farmer feeding his own grain > to his own hogs affects interstate commerce, surely email or the > World Wide Web counts as interstate, as does killing anybody > who might cross state lines or buy some product that does. > (Of course, given the number of politicians who are for sale, > removing a few of them from the market can pretty legitimately > be called affecting interstate commerce :-) Read the last sentence of the rubber-clause.....any action or law that derives from it is required to respect the remainder of the Constitution in full (simply crossing a state border doesn't annul the Constitution). Since that includes the 9th and 10th (in toto) they have themselves a quandry. Personaly, I would trust an individual handling these technologies before I'd trust a bunch of power-happy gun-toting morons acting in concert who's answer to everything is "my boss told me to do it" and willingly deny their duties as individual citizens in order to play their three-initial games. I saw a comment the other day that the government (those who support these world views I suppose) doesn't trust the people. I wonder why after reading laws that are this poorly constructed. Whatever the hell the intent was it wasn't to protect life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Tue Nov 3 06:13:44 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:13:44 +0800 Subject: VANGUARD: An Election About Nothing? (fwd) Message-ID: <199811031321.HAA04373@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Subject: VANGUARD: An Election About Nothing? > Date: Tue, 3 Nov 98 00:35:09 -0600 > From: Vanguard > > AN ELECTION ABOUT NOTHING? > 30 October 1998 > > Copyright 1998, Rod D. Martin > > "The Vanguard of the Revolution" > National Edition > An election is at hand, and yet again, the vast majority will not > vote. Just as they have shown a complete disinterest in the > character of the President, they will Tuesday show a total lack of > concern for the fate of their country. For them, this is the > Seinfeld election: an election about nothing. > > It is just as well that such nincompoops won't vote; and yet it is > a sorry commentary on the state of our body politic that so few > understand, that so few even care. Another fatal disaster just > this month, this time in Taft, California, shows us again just why > it is so tragic. Perhaps they're not stupid. Perhaps their not nin-compoops, but rather you are for assigning any value to the entire process. It is a standard litany of conventional science to choose the lesser of two evils. Perhaps the lesser of two evils in this corrupted, Constitutionaly bereft system is *NOT TO PARTICIPATE*. Sine it obviously doesn't matter who wins, since the mighty spectre of compromise will dilute any real difference into a verbal shell game devoid of meaning. Maby deToquville (sorry for spelling - early morning) was right about mediocrity being the result of democracy, except in one fine point. It won't be the people as a whole but rather those who are too stupid and wedded to outmoded ideals to change. The social and political dinosaurs if you will. Maby the polls where drunk dwarves win over 'serious' candidates is actualy demonstrating the absurdity of those who insist their issue are serious. Perhaps people are finaly seeing that these nin-compoops who want the political power in this country are simply blind to a social and economic change in the winds. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ichudov at Algebra.COM Tue Nov 3 07:29:20 1998 From: ichudov at Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 23:29:20 +0800 Subject: Is CP mail to me bouncing? In-Reply-To: <36421188.327490806@roadrunner.pictel.com> Message-ID: <199811031447.IAA15402@manifold.algebra.com> Francis Litterio wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > In the last few days I've ceased receiving CP email from algebra.com. > Am I still subscribed? Is mail to me bouncing back to you? My ISP > has some aggressive anti-spam measures that sometimes bounce mail from > lists. Yes, your problems in receiving cypherpunks mail are due to your ISP. Please change your ISP, as the current one cares more about the antispam crusade than about their customers receiving email. - Igor. From jp at pld.ttu.ee Tue Nov 3 09:07:56 1998 From: jp at pld.ttu.ee (Jyri Poldre) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 01:07:56 +0800 Subject: hardware sharing question In-Reply-To: <199811020422.XAA11460@cti06.citenet.net> Message-ID: Dear C'punks, There are many different hardware accelerator devices available for speeding up the modmul operation - The nFast and FastMap to name a few. I am about to build a new one. This unit should be: 1. Expandable A. No harm if exponent is larger than N bits - just slower B. As much parralel calculations as possible - add ALU and get faster results 2. Low cost- keep only the heavy iron in the card - all other is ok to do using host CPU. This should also enable to build the device for several applications - After all I want only to replace a call to some mathemathical subroutine. To realize it the Residue Number System, with some additional memory seems like a good choiche. The system will eventually consist of a card with slots for addtional ALU and RAM modules. You can do away with only one ALU - tha base kit, but it will consume bus bandwidth. Add memory and you are free from that limitation. Slow? Add ALU units. But interestingly my main problem is not about cryptography :) I would like to know, if there are possible other places, where integer arithmetics could be used. Maybe A world would be a better place with fast matrix multiplication? So people. I would very much appreciate, if you could tell me about the ways we could use this integer calculator for other applications as well. I will be using RNS, what gives us a lot of multiplications/additions in parralel. Thank you, Jyri Poldre, Tallinn Technical University. From stuffed at stuffed.net Wed Nov 4 01:15:59 1998 From: stuffed at stuffed.net (STUFFED WED NOV 4) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 01:15:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY! 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Full instructions on unsubscribing are in every issue of Eureka! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- From ericm at lne.com Tue Nov 3 09:55:43 1998 From: ericm at lne.com (Eric Murray) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 01:55:43 +0800 Subject: VANGUARD: An Election About Nothing? (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199811031321.HAA04373@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199811031700.JAA18950@slack.lne.com> Jim Choate writes: > It is a standard litany of conventional science to choose the lesser of two > evils. Perhaps the lesser of two evils in this corrupted, Constitutionaly > bereft system is *NOT TO PARTICIPATE*. Sine it obviously doesn't matter who > wins, since the mighty spectre of compromise will dilute any real difference > into a verbal shell game devoid of meaning. Maby deToquville (sorry for > spelling - early morning) was right about mediocrity being the result of > democracy, except in one fine point. It won't be the people as a whole but > rather those who are too stupid and wedded to outmoded ideals to change. The > social and political dinosaurs if you will. Not voting tells the current politicians that you don't care what they do to you. They'd be happier if only 5% of the electorate bothered to vote- that's fewer people to market to. If you don't like the Republicrats in office, then vote for what the media denigrates as a 'fringe cantidate'. If they lose, which is likely because Americans tend to want to vote for the winner, then you'll be satisfied because you voted against the idiot in office. If they happen to win, then you'll either get someone wiht some new ideas which (hopefully) you agree with, or someone so seriously wierd that they paralyze government for their entire term. Here in California we have Green, Libertarian, Peace and Freedom, Reform and Natural Law candidates for almost all the state positions. The Natural Law people are so wierd that it's very tempting to vote for them, here's a sample: Jane Ann Bialosky, Natural Law candidate for Secretary of State: "My ideal is to bring fullfillment to the electoral idea, a wise electorate. Government is the reflection of collective conciousness.... Our government should sustain the influence of harmony, positivity, wholeness, in which no one can go wrong and everyone will spontaneously be right... The government of nature governs from the holistic nasis of creation according to the principle of least action.... Everything must be held up by natural law. Another Natural Law candidate for state Controller: "My vision is for prevention-oriented government, conflict-free politics and proven solutions to America's economic problems by cutting taxes deeply abd responsibly while simultaneously balancing the budget through cost-effective solutions to America's problems, rather than by cutting essential services." I was thinking as I read the voter pamphlet that an Absurdist party would be quite amusing and would point out the silliness of the current politicians. But I don't think I could come up with anything as wacky as the Natural Law people can. > Maby the polls where drunk dwarves win over 'serious' candidates is actualy > demonstrating the absurdity of those who insist their issue are serious. That's my point. Absurdisim sends a much stronger message than just not voting. Voting for serious 'fringe' candidates (i.e. Libertarians) also sends a message. Not voting just says "I don't care what you do to me". Of course the whole thing _could_ be rigged- last night the ABC web site had pages up with _today's_ voting results, with 100% of the "precincts reporting". http://www.abcnews.com/sections/us/elections98/results/senate.html http://www.abcnews.com/sections/us/elections98/results/governors.html http://www.abcnews.com/sections/us/elections98/results/issues.html They're not up now, but I managed to get a copy of the senate "results" yesterday (10/2) at 18:40 PST. It'll be interesting to see how well they match the "results" from today. A copy of the page I saved is at www.lne.com/ericm/senate.html -- Eric Murray N*Able Technologies www.nabletech.com (email: ericm at the sites lne.com or nabletech.com) PGP keyid:E03F65E5 From da5id at simons-rock.edu Tue Nov 3 10:21:38 1998 From: da5id at simons-rock.edu (da5id at simons-rock.edu) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 02:21:38 +0800 Subject: [Fwd: ...prolonged, unintentional and inadvertent...] Message-ID: <363F3CED.A5A4F1DF@simons-rock.edu> To: 0xdeadbeef at substance.abuse.blackdown.org Subject: ...prolonged, unintentional and inadvertent... From: glen mccready Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 11:30:26 -0500 Delivered-To: da5id at simons-rock.edu Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:32:36 -0500 Resent-From: 0xdeadbeef at substance.abuse.blackdown.org Resent-Message-ID: <"CF3sc1.0.UA3.D0pFs"@shell> Resent-Sender: 0xdeadbeef-request at substance.abuse.blackdown.org Forwarded-by: Nev Dull Forwarded-by: "Geoffrey S. Knauth" Forwarded-by: Tom Schuneman PARIS (Reuters) - Electronic trading may be cheap, but leaning on the keyboard can be costly. A mystery plunge in the value of French 10-year bond futures on July 23 was triggered by a bank trader at Salomon Brothers in London who accidentally and repeatedly hit the "Instant Sell" button, investigators said Thursday. A wave of 145 separate sell orders sent the price diving on electronic screens. "The disputed trades arose as a result of the prolonged, unintentional and inadvertent operation of the 'Instant Sell' key," said an investigation by computer software firm Cap Gemini and security group Kroll Associates. Salomon Brothers declined to comment on any losses. From brownrk1 at texaco.com Tue Nov 3 12:07:18 1998 From: brownrk1 at texaco.com (Brown, R Ken) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 04:07:18 +0800 Subject: VANGUARD: An Election About Nothing? (fwd) Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F8561@MSX11002> Eric Murray wrote: > Not voting tells the current politicians that you > don't care what they do to you. They'd be happier > if only % of the electorate bothered to vote that's > fewer people to market to. Yep look at it as a market. People who don't or can't vote don't count; jist as people who don't or can't pay don't count in a shop. If you vote or at least if you give a credible threat of possibly voting they might notice. Otherwise you are invisible. > I was thinking as I read the voter pamphlet that an > Absurdist party would be quite amusing and would > point out the silliness of the current politicians. > But I don't think I could come up with anything as > wacky as the Natural Law people can. We used to get "Natural Law" candidates in UK as well. Not so many last time round, maybe they finally spent George Harrison's money. The best track-record for an Absurdist Party in this country is the Monster Raving Looney Party, which used to be mostly Screaming Lord Sutch who stood for parliament again and again but has recently taken on some sort of continuing existence (see http://www.surfbaud.co.uk/loony/) and even has a few town councillors in various places. Sutch may well have almost invented an electoral version of the cypherpunk assasination prototcol - bookies were quoting odds of 15 million to one against him winning a seat once and he pointed out that if he could find a way to pay voters off anonymously he could bet on himself and bribe the electorate with his winnings... I think the odds fell after that. Of course the possibility of easy anonymous bribery makes traditional electoral law much, much harder to enforce (see, this is relevant to Cypherpunks). There are some fun looking parties around. The line up for the UK General Election on the Glorious First of May was (in order of number of seats gained): Labour Party, Conservative Party, Liberals, Ulster Unionist Party, Scottish Nationalist Party, Plaid Cymru, Social Democratic and Labour Party, Democratic Unionist, Sinn Fein, United Kingdom Unionist, Madam Speaker Seeking Reelection and Martin Bell standing as an independent; all of whom won something. And Alliance Party of Northern Ireland, British National Party, Rainbow Dream Ticket Party, Green Party, Liberal Party, Mebyon Kernow,Monster Raving Loony Party,National Democrats, Northern Ireland Women's Coalition, Natural Law Party , ProLife Alliance ,Popular Unionist Party, Referendum Party Socialist Labour Party, Socialist Party, Scottish Social Alliance, UK Independence Party, Workers Party, Workers Revolutionary Party; who didn't win anything but all seem to have some sort of continuing existence as parties And Anti Sleaze/Corruption, AntiConservative, Sportsman's Alliance: Anyone But Mellor, Lord Byro versus the Scallywag Tories, AntiPoliticians, Antimajority Democracy, Independent Democracy Means Consulting the People, People in Slough Shunning Useless Politicians, Common Sense Sick of Politicians Party, None of the Above, Drugs Hemp/Cannabis Platforms, New Millenium, New Way, Hemp Candidate, Hemp Coalition, Legalise Cannabis Party, Ind AE Independent Anti Europe, British Home Rule , British Isles People First, Independent Conservative, Independant Christian, Christian Party, Christian Nationalist, Christian Democrat, Christian Unity, Independent Communist, Communist Party of Britain, Communist League, Independent British Democratic Party, Social Democrat, English Democratic Party, Rennaisence Democrat, Independent Democrat, Freedom/Justice/Rights Platform, Justice Party, Freedom Party, Justice and Renewal Independent Party, Pacifist for Peace, Justice, Cooperation, Environment, Charter for Basic Rights, Fellowship Party for Peace and Justice, Human Rights ', British Freedom and Individual Rights, Far Left, Radical Alternative, Building a Fair Society, Full Employment Party, Socialist Party of Great Britain, Socialist Equality Party, Independent Far Right, National Front, Third Way, Independent Green, Scrapit Stop Avon Ring Road, Newbury Bypass Stop Construction Now, Independent Liberal Democrat, Top Choice Liberal Democrat, Independent Labour, and Local Independent; who all seem to have been invented for the occasion. Make up your mind as to which, if any, are absurdist. I suspect none of them bribed the voters much. Roll on the transferable vote! Ken Brown & the Disclaimers. From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Tue Nov 3 12:07:51 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 04:07:51 +0800 Subject: VANGUARD: An Election About Nothing? (fwd) Message-ID: <199811031855.MAA05131@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: Eric Murray > Subject: Re: VANGUARD: An Election About Nothing? (fwd) > Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:00:34 -0800 (PST) > Not voting tells the current politicians that you don't care > what they do to you. They'd be happier if only 5% of the electorate > bothered to vote- that's fewer people to market to. That should set off flags for truly honest politicians (talk about a non sequeter). > If you don't like the Republicrats in office, then vote for > what the media denigrates as a 'fringe cantidate'. If they > lose, which is likely because Americans tend to want to vote > for the winner, then you'll be satisfied because you voted > against the idiot in office. If they happen to win, then > you'll either get someone wiht some new ideas which (hopefully) you > agree with, or someone so seriously wierd that they paralyze > government for their entire term. This of course assumes that there is some faith in the system. > The Natural Law people are so wierd that it's very tempting to Weird? You're talking to somebody who lives in Austin, Tx. The capital of weird amond weird....;) But the point isn't to vote for just anybody. I keep having this echo of Federalist #5 (I think that's the one about political parties) going through my head. The problem with our system is that we need a more representative form of government. It shouldn't be simply a football game (which leads to a related but deep issue about American psychology itself) but a fair and honest representation of the peoples desire. The only things I can find that would make such '3rd party' strategies work is if the representation was done by percentage as in Englands parliament. > That's my point. Absurdisim sends a much stronger message > than just not voting. Voting for serious 'fringe' candidates > (i.e. Libertarians) also sends a message. Not voting just > says "I don't care what you do to me". I'll think about this one. Several points come to mind and I'm not sure how to express them at this point. The point I can address is that it isn't that people voted for a drunk dwarve. It was the issue was so trivial or irrelevant that it didn't matter who goes in there, it simply doesn't matter. In that case the only answer is to opt out and spend ones time dealing with the issues and problems that do matter. The question is deeper than simply participation, it's addresses the entire point of the system that needs our participation in the first place. > last night the ABC web site had pages up with _today's_ > voting results, with 100% of the "precincts reporting". I'd guess they were testing. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From petro at playboy.com Tue Nov 3 12:32:08 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 04:32:08 +0800 Subject: airline id In-Reply-To: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F853F@MSX11002> Message-ID: At 6:46 AM -0500 10/29/98, Brown, R Ken wrote: >problem. On trains, unlike planes, you keep your luggage with you. > >Also people *like* trains. They are cute. Even in America you have >hordes of trainspotters and steam enthusiasts and model-builders and all >the rest. It always amazes me that bookshops have more shelves of >hobbyist books about trains than about cars, but only about 15% of the >population regularly travel by train and about 60% by car. (In England - >I guess in the USA that's more like 5% and 85% - and before you say that That actually may be the reason. I have traveled a good deal on both trains, by Auto, and by bicycle, and well, Trains suck. Cars suck slightly less (execpt in a few cases). It is easiest to get romantic about something you don't have to fight with on a regular basis. Ken Brown > >(who prefers bicycles to trains but had to use the train to get to work >today because of a broken spoke he is incapable of fixing. He only does >software) I have 3 bikes. Hell, a spare bike is cheaper than a spare tire. -- "To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather na�ve, and certainly unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust" http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro at playboy.com From petro at playboy.com Tue Nov 3 12:52:57 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 04:52:57 +0800 Subject: don't use passwords as private keys (was Re: Using a passwordas a private key.) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981028012129.008334d0@idiom.com> Message-ID: At 4:20 PM -0500 10/29/98, Adam Back wrote: >Some people have been talking about using passwords as private keys. >(By using the passphrase as seed material for regenerating the private >and public key). > >I don't think this is a good idea. > >You can't forget passphrases. You can destroy private key files. > Yes, you can. I had an art director forget his 4 days running, AFTER LUNCH. He remembered it in the morning, but after lunch he couldn't. It wasn't a "passphrase" either, it was a _very_ weak password. -- "To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather na�ve, and certainly unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust" http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro at playboy.com From explorer at netcom.com Wed Nov 4 05:22:07 1998 From: explorer at netcom.com (explorer at netcom.com) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 05:22:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199811041321.FAA05928@toad.com> 11/04/98 INTERNET NEWS 8 Pine Circle Dr. Silicon Valley,Ca. USA INTERNET NEWS/Y2K (YEAR 2000 SOLUTION) Most of the information from the silicon valley is obtained from the local pubs/bars. Un-named sources discussing the Y2K problem at the local brew revealed, that 2 of the big valley software manufacturers are in a bidding war for software technology created by a small publicly traded company OTC-BB symbol:"TCFG" that is in the process of obtaining a patent. This 3 year old emerging growth company has tested and out performed the "Big Boys" with a system industry experts consider to be a technological breakthrough! Several rogue ex-employees of the "giants" joined this company and claims abound about their success. If truth is stronger than fiction then "TCFG" is going to play with the big boys. We all know the Y2K problem and what the real solution would mean to all of us $$! How much will they pay "TCFG"? Back to the pub friday evening for more info... From nobody at replay.com Tue Nov 3 14:45:38 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 06:45:38 +0800 Subject: JIM MARTIN---NC Supreme Court (fwd) Message-ID: <199811032150.WAA15132@replay.com> This spam was received earlier today. One has to wonder just how stupid this guy is. Hint: I live at least a thousand miles from North Carolina. This guy is running for a position as judge, but thinks that it is more important to tell people about how many kids he has as opposed to his actual qualifications for the office. He might also want to learn how to use English, that people in the other 49 states cannot vote for or against him, and what the term "theft of service" means before he attempts to occupy such an office. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Ineedyourhelp at yourvote.com Subject: JIM MARTIN---NC Supreme Court Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 09:42:32 JIM MARTIN NC Supreme Court My Friend: I needy Your Help when you vote on Tuesday. Your vote for me to represent you on the NC Supreme Court would really be appreciated by me. I'm not a politican. I have a Family, 3 kids in college and I can and will make a difference if you give me the chance to work for you.. When elected, I promise you that my Door will always be open TO YOU. I Thank You, Jim Martin From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Tue Nov 3 15:24:32 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 07:24:32 +0800 Subject: don't use passwords as private keys (was Re: Using a passwordas a private key.) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199811032218.WAA22735@server.eternity.org> Petro writes: > >You can't forget passphrases. You can destroy private key files. > > Yes, you can. I had an art director forget his 4 days running, > AFTER LUNCH. He remembered it in the morning, but after lunch he couldn't. With the kind of "memory aid" we were talking about here (legal threat, 1 years imprisonment for contempt to aid memory, perhaps torture) he might just have remembered it. If he didn't he'd likely get a year or so to try remember it in prison on contempt charges for not handing it over. Deleting keys on the other hand, contempt would be a waste of time, you're never going to remember what you don't know, and they ought to convincable of this if you can show the software documentation describing forward secret key material deletion. > It wasn't a "passphrase" either, it was a _very_ weak password. Also note that it is not necessary to remember the password precisely, just narrow the search space down to provide a viable dictionary attack of 56 bits or whatever. The art directors password sounds like it was already below that. Adam -- print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981103151311.00984100@idiom.com> At 09:00 AM 11/3/98 -0800, Eric Murray wrote: >The Natural Law people are so wierd that it's very tempting to vote for them, One reason their rhetoric looks so weird is because it's avoiding coming straight out and saying "Our plan for fixing society is to have the government fund teaching of Transcendental Meditation(r) to everybody, and once everybody is doing TM, they'll all be healthier, better behaved, and will do things in accordance with The Laws Of Nature As Taught By the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, so the problems of the world will all fix themselves." Meanwhile, of course, they describe their national health plans as using "Proven Scientific Principles" (TM having been proven to fix everything) and their education plans using similar obfuscatory rhetoric. (On the other hand, I haven't heard them saying that the TM-Siddhi program will let them replace the Air Force with levitation yet; they tend to take the view that calmness and niceness will scientifically reduce the need to shoot people, which I can't fault them for too much...) It's basically a wimpier version of traditional Western moral reformers pushing the view that if government gets rid of Sin, society will work better, but getting rid of ignorance is usually a "kinder, gentler" process, not that you want to tell the ignorant what you're doing, because they may think that offering fruit and flowers to a guru's picture and chanting the name of a fire-god while breathing quietly is not only a strange way to fix ignorance but is an inappropriate thing for governments to spend their money on, especially in the name of Science. Most of the Natural Law Party candidates I've talked to, except when they're on direct meditation-revenue-enhancement topics, tend to be reasonable folks, somewhere in the liberal-to-libertarian range, thinking the government should mostly let people do what they want, which will naturally lead to calmness and niceness as they follow natural law, and a lot of the TM folks, especially around Maharishi University in Iowa, have gone into business for themselves, so they prefer lower government interference and red tape. On the other hand, like any small party trying to get enough candidates to run full slates for office, some of their folks really are flakes :-) I like to believe that Libertarians do better on that score, but we've got our share as well, and the only real way out of it is to grow large enough that the supply of people willing to run includes enough competent people. On the other hand, it's still tempting to see about putting Frank Zappa on the ballot. He is a bit metabolically challenged these days, but it wouldn't bother him much, and he's still be a better candidate than most live Democrats or Republicans. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From service at angelfire.com Tue Nov 3 15:58:22 1998 From: service at angelfire.com (service at angelfire.com) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 07:58:22 +0800 Subject: Seeking Commission Based Sales Representatives and Distributors Message-ID: <199811032324.PAA12558@toad.com> Hi We are seeking commission-based sales representatives and distributors in your geographic market to spearhead the national roll-out for our Consumer Smart Product line. Whether you are a student or a senior citizen, everyone is qualified to earn extra income within our company. Could you use extra income? Are you tired of get rich schemes? If you can answer YES to these questions, then this is the perfect opportunity for you. This is not a pyramid or get rich quick scheme. This is a serious, legitmate business opportunity. We offer Consumer Smart Products at prices everyone can afford! Our products are useful for everyone and they make perfect gifts! All our products emphasize "Quality, Function and Value" For additional information, please reply to this email with more info in your subject heading. Only serious applicants need apply. Thank You From nobody at replay.com Tue Nov 3 17:52:49 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:52:49 +0800 Subject: MIB Subpoenas In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19981028234903.034b1ad0@rboc.net> Message-ID: <199811040107.CAA03703@replay.com> > Actually I was thinking of trying to get ahold of Jim Bell and get > permission to publish Assassination Politics in Hardback along with other > info. btw: Winn Schwartau (infowar.com) has published the AP essay in a book. From secret_squirrel at nym.alias.net Tue Nov 3 20:12:04 1998 From: secret_squirrel at nym.alias.net (Secret Squirrel) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 12:12:04 +0800 Subject: FUD vs LINUX Message-ID: MICROSOFT EXECS WORRY ABOUT FREE SOFTWARE MOVEMENT An internal Microsoft memo written by one of that company's software engineers indicates that Microsoft is concerned with developing strategies for competing against free programs that have been gaining popularity with software developers, such as the operating system Linux. The memorandum warns that the usual Microsoft marketing strategy known as FUD (an acronym for fear, uncertainty, and doubt) won't work against developers of free software, who are part of the O.S.S. (open-source software) movement that makes source code readily available to anyone for improvement and testing. The memo (http://www.opensource.org/halloween.html) says: "The ability of the O.S.S. process to collect and harness the collective I.Q. of thousands of individuals across the Internet is simply amazing. More importantly, O.S.S. evangelization scales with the size of the Internet much faster than our own evangelization efforts appear to scale." (New York Times 3 Nov 98) From bbt at mudspring.uplb.edu.ph Tue Nov 3 22:35:47 1998 From: bbt at mudspring.uplb.edu.ph (Bernardo B. Terrado) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 14:35:47 +0800 Subject: knapsack... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Could someone tell(give) me where to get a source code for the knapsack algo (w/ backtracking). I am going to "parallelize" it. (suggestions/comments ?) Thank you. From stocknews11_5_98iil at worldnet.att.net Wed Nov 4 15:31:10 1998 From: stocknews11_5_98iil at worldnet.att.net (stocknews11_5_98iil at worldnet.att.net) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 15:31:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: URGENT BUY ALERT!! Message-ID: <> Company: Mark I Industries Symbol: M K I I (mkii) Price: 1/4 ($.25/share) M K I I has announced an affiliation with one of their subsidiaries and AT&T. Management projects a $100 million revenue goal at their current rate of growth with "the company's stock to trade in the $4 range". M K I I is rated an immediate and "STRONG BUY". For more information on M K I I go to: http://quote.yahoo.com From stocknews11_5_98iil at worldnet.att.net Wed Nov 4 15:31:10 1998 From: stocknews11_5_98iil at worldnet.att.net (stocknews11_5_98iil at worldnet.att.net) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 15:31:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: URGENT BUY ALERT!! Message-ID: <> Company: Mark I Industries Symbol: M K I I (mkii) Price: 1/4 ($.25/share) M K I I has announced an affiliation with one of their subsidiaries and AT&T. Management projects a $100 million revenue goal at their current rate of growth with "the company's stock to trade in the $4 range". M K I I is rated an immediate and "STRONG BUY". For more information on M K I I go to: http://quote.yahoo.com From bbt at mudspring.uplb.edu.ph Wed Nov 4 01:25:16 1998 From: bbt at mudspring.uplb.edu.ph (Bernardo B. Terrado) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 17:25:16 +0800 Subject: knapsack... Message-ID: Could someone tell(give) me where to get a source code for the knapsack algo (w/ backtracking). I am going to "parallelize" it. (suggestions/comments ?) Thank you. From wabe at home.com Wed Nov 4 01:47:18 1998 From: wabe at home.com (wabe) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 17:47:18 +0800 Subject: JIM MARTIN---NC Supreme Court (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199811032150.WAA15132@replay.com> Message-ID: <364045D4.E486986A@home.com> He's probably better qualified than the people who get elected. -wabe From nobody at replay.com Wed Nov 4 02:35:30 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 18:35:30 +0800 Subject: problems with the concept Message-ID: <199811040950.KAA15927@replay.com> > http://www.jya.com/hr4655-wjc.htm > TEXT: CLINTON ON SIGNING THE "IRAQ LIBERATION ACT OF 1998" OCT. 31 Mr. Clinton would seem to have a problem with the concept of "covert" as it applies to personal and international actions. The MIB who visited the radio astronomer who thought he discovered extraterrestrial "intelligence", when it was just a classified intelligence satellite, have a "subtlety" problem. [see http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hall/7193/cancelled.html (also stored on www.jya.com/crypto.htm)] --Haste Orwellians Deride my Thugs From q1w2e3 at pacific.net.sg Wed Nov 4 06:42:15 1998 From: q1w2e3 at pacific.net.sg (zËRö) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 22:42:15 +0800 Subject: is it real? Message-ID: <36413D1D.3C6@pacific.net.sg> >>for your info, please. >> >>>>Just in case....... >>>>......... basically.... don't install Windows 98 ..... since they >have >>>>this "added" function..... =) >>>> >>>> Microsoft slapped two more lawsuit against one teenager and one >>>>retired worker for using pirated Windows 98 software. >>>> >>>>For your information on how Microsoft actually trace PIRATED / >>>>COPIED / UNLICENSED Windows 98: >>>> >>>>Whenever you logon into the internet, during the verifying >>>>password duration. Your ISP (Internet Service Provider >>>>eg:SingNET,PacNET,CyberNET,SwiftNET) will download a >>>>SUB-REGISTRY ENCRYPTED HEXADECIMAL (containing all your >>>>PROGRAMS serial numbers installed into Win98!!) file from >>>>your Windows 98 registry. Then they send this SUB-REGISTRY to >>>>Microsoft for verification. And ONLY Microsoft knows how >>>>to decode this encypted hexadecimal file. >>>> >>>>If Microsoft verified that the serial numbers are authentic, >>>>then they WILL REGISTER THOSE NUMBERS FOR YOU >>>>A-U-T-O-M-A-T-C-A-L-L-Y !!! >>>> >>>>And if Microsoft denied those serial numbers, then they will send >>>>an E-Mail to the ISP you dialled into and your ISP will start >>>>tracing everyone who logons to their systems. That's why during >>>>sometime for no reason your internet started slowing down. >>>>And if your ISP verified that the SUB-REGISTRY ENCYPTED HEXADECIMAL >>>>file is yours, they will send your information over to Microsoft >>>>Singapore. And there they will decide whether to take actions or not. >>>> >>>>There is already 54 cases in Singapore regarding uses of PIRATE >>>>/ COPIED / UNLICENSED Windows 98. >>>> >>>>I do not wish to see any of my friends get into this million dollar >>>>tangle from Bill Gates, not that I hate this guy, but it really >>>>sucks when they made such anti-piracy move into the software itself >>>>- thus forcing everyone to buy Microsoft original's Windows 98, if >>>>not they'll slap you with a lawsuit. >>>> >>>>Forward this mail to as many people you know, and who knows >>>>you may just save one of your friends from getting sued by Microsoft. >>>> >>>> From rah at shipwright.com Wed Nov 4 07:05:25 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 23:05:25 +0800 Subject: Hayek and Foucault Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 04:27:52 EST Reply-To: Hayek Related Research Sender: Hayek Related Research From: Stephen Carson Subject: Re: Hayek and Foucault To: HAYEK-L at MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU Clearly, Hayek's analysis of power & the state has been superseded by a far more nuanced view. But, just for old time's sake, I would like to try arguing that Hayek's (and, in fact, the Old Whig/classical liberal) perspective may still have something to offer us that these new views, as explicated by Williams & Davis, don't seem to have. Please chalk up unrelated attempts to defend Hayek to my current fascination with "pietas", now that I've finally figured out what my Latin teacher meant by that. Julietwill at AOL.COM (Juliet Williams) wrote: >given everything Hayek knew about the perils facing the planning state, he >nonetheless feared it. Hayek's own arguments about the obstacles to >planning and centralizing power should have suggested to him that the real >danger in the future lies not with a centralized state (which is doomed to >fail) but rather with a government that recognizes the need to >decentralize its power in order to maintain hegemony. Then Hayek might >have understood that a state which dissipates and, hence, masks its power >can threaten liberty equally if not more so than a state which tries to >maximize its direct control. Hayek was perfectly positioned to >understand, as Foucault did, that total state poses much less of a threat >in these times than does the post-modern one in which state power is so >thoroughly diffused as to be unrecognizable. Perhaps I'm thinking about the wrong time horizon, but it seems to me that the 170 million or so that were marched out to the killing fields in this century might have had some not entirely irrelevant fears of the "planning state". Certainly, despite my understanding of the inherent instability of the Total State, I thank God regularly that the US hasn't yet gone through that awkward transition period between the birth of the Total State & its demise. Foucault is probably correct that we are beyond the centralized state. But I can't help recalling to mind my re-reading the other night of the first chapter of R. J. Rummel's _Death By Government_ in which he details the numerous slaughters (most by centralized states) that have occurred throughout history prior to the 20th century. I hope very much my pessimism about human nature will be disproven, but I think I'll keep my eyes open just in case. >Foucault thus offers us something Hayek does not, namely, an imperative to >resist power. Hayek is primarily concerned not with promoting resistance, >but rather with preventing the need for it in the first place. It is true >that Hayek concedes a place for participation by his admission that >democracy is one of the most important safeguards of freedom (LLL3, 5). > But Hayek hardly offers a resounding endorsement of participatory >politics. In his words, democracy is one of those paramount though >negative values, comparable to sanitary precautions against the plague. Given all this I'm not quite sure what to make of Hayek's personal efforts, like the Mont Pelerin Society, or of the rumours that Hayek's writings have had & continue to have an influence on those suffering under totalitarianism & looking for a sign of hope. To be sure, this may be very distant from the sort of participatory politics that Foucault understands to be effective, but it seems unfair to say that Hayek had no strategy of resistance at all. My own reading of Hayek is of a man who was (since roughly 1922) engaged in a lifelong resistance against state power. Admittedly, his strategy may seem extremely subtle & long-term, but I might even go so far as to claim that his strategy has already had some effectiveness in its own small way... And that his intention was that its greatest impact wouldn't hit until well after his death. daviserik at HOTMAIL.COM (Erik Davis) wrote: >Liberals in general tend to limit discussion of "power" to discussion of >the state, and perhaps Hayek often did the same. One might even say that, in the context of a classical liberal political discussion, the term "power" is short for "state power", (or, perhaps, coercive power). >This will seem paradoxical to a liberal--and even more so to a >conservative (esp. those of Hobbesian persuasion)--because if the rule >of law must ultimately be "enforced" endogenously then this means >that--if it were ever to be completely upheld--one could say (1) that >the state will cease to exist [because there would not be a need for >exogenous enforcement of rules] or (2) that the "state" will be ALL >PERVASIVE [because every agent is committed to the rules]. (Certainly, >just what is "endogenous" and what is "exogenous" should itself be >brought into question--that would be Foucault's point, no?). The >liberal will say (1), the postmodernist will say (2). It's probably just six of one, half dozen of another, as you imply. Though it occurs to me that Rummel's particular concern about the state, (that it will slaughter its citizens and whoever else comes under its power), would be allayed in the situation described. So in this particular sense, (1) might be the most useful claim to be made. It further occurs to me that if Rummel is right, that a society in which the rule of law is diffused & widely practiced will not kill its citizens, then would could conjecture that such a society might even afford more liberties than just to retain one's life. >If we read Hayek with (2) in mind, Hayek does at times seem to >politicize EVERYTHING. For example, in his "Why I am Not a >Conservative", the Party of Life is not tied to a state. > >I wanted to emphasize this in my earlier post (in reply to Gus DiZerega >and Stephen Carson) by pointing out the analogies between common law >(tied to state action) and custom (not necessarily tied to the state). >Common law is a system of precedents which determines where and when >force can be legitimately applied; customs ("rituals" [INSTITUTIONS! >{see below}]) function in a completely analogous way. The POLITICAL >character of these customs (as, in one form, a "perverse system of >rituals")--and of challenges to them--is precisely the argument of >Vaclav Havel's THE POWER OF THE POWERLESS. I think this is an excellent point. Perhaps it's just taste, but I'm a bit bothered by speaking of the political character of customs. Certainly customs, (and non-state institutions, like the family & friendship), have political implications, but to talk about their political character seems to me to let politics eat too much up. And I think we've had quite enough of that. Stephen W. Carson "Premature optimization is the root of all evil" -Donald Knuth --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Wed Nov 4 07:12:58 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 23:12:58 +0800 Subject: Praetoriani Novi Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Delivered-To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com X-Sender: believer at telepath.com Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 06:17:44 -0600 To: believer at telepath.com From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: New Powers for Secret Service Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Precedence: list Reply-To: believer at telepath.com Source: Salt Lake City Tribune http://www.sltrib.com/11031998/utah/utah.htm IT'S CLASSIFIED: The Secret Service Will Have a Hand In 2002 Security BY GREG BURTON THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE A classified executive order signed by President Clinton during the summer has altered the way the Secret Service prepares for security at national events, a change already affecting the blueprint for the 2002 Winter Olympics. Presidential protection, often a hectic, hodgepodge operation, has been the jurisdiction of the Secret Service since John Wilkes Booth shot President Lincoln. Now, the presidential directive orders the Secret Service to take an active role in planning security for major national events, whether or not presidents, vice presidents, ex-presidents, their spouses or other dignitaries attend. Called Presidential Decision Directive 62 (PDD 62), the order also reportedly alters a range of national security considerations, although the directive's internal hardware is top secret. PDDs, like executive orders, do not require the approval of Congress but come through the National Security Council. For Salt Lake City, PDD 62 means Secret Service agents already are planning for the orchestration of executive ogling at the Winter Olympics without knowing who the president of the United States will be or if that person will attend. At the 1996 Summer Games, when the same shadowy squad led then-first-term Clinton through the magnolia trees in Atlanta, security experts with the Secret Service did not begin preparing for the executive visit until after Olympic organizers and the FBI had completed their security plan. ``The public has this perception of the Secret Service as a strange institution that rides in and rides out with black glasses on,'' says Dennis Crandall, resident agent in charge of the Secret Service for Utah and Idaho. ``This is kind of a new era for us.'' PDD 62 now enters a vault of classified security directives. Among other PDDs is No. 29, issued in 1994, that established the Security Policy Board, a secretive agency with authority over information systems' security and safeguarding classified information. The National Security Council has refused to release details of PDD 29. PDD 62 likely will remain equally veiled. ``PDD 62 is not classified, but the contents are,'' says David M. Tubbs, the recently appointed special agent in charge for the FBI's Utah, Idaho and Montana command. Says Crandall: ``Portions of it are still sensitive.'' According to several national security experts, the major event clause in PDD 62 is an outgrowth of a perceived lack of security planning for the president's visit to the Atlanta Games. Because of PDD 62, the Secret Service has been involved nearly from the onset of security planning for the 2002 Winter Games. ``We are designated to take a more aggressive upfront role in major events,'' says Crandall. Currently, the FBI and the Secret Service are hammering out a memorandum of understanding that clarifies the division of labor between the two federal security teams in accordance with PDD 62. The Secret Service's role -- although a topic that has reportedly led to turf wars in Washington, D.C. -- has been welcomed by most Salt Lake City organizers. Tubbs does not see their involvement as a threat to the FBI, the lead federal security agency for the 2002 Olympics. ``I have not had a turf war with anyone. Period,'' says Tubbs, who was one of several agents with direct security oversight during Atlanta. ``We are all involved in the planning stages here, so what has happened in the past is unimportant. What is important is what happens in 2002.'' ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From webmaster at totaltele.com Wed Nov 4 08:20:45 1998 From: webmaster at totaltele.com (Total Telecom Web) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 00:20:45 +0800 Subject: Registration Message-ID: <199811041539.PAA03615@mixy.aspectgroup.co.uk> Thankyou for registering with Total Telecom Your username is: cypherpunks at toad.com Your password is: cypherpunks If you haven't already done so, you can set a 'cookie' to make entry easier - go to - http:www.totaltele.com/register/help.asp If at anytime you wish the change your user profile - go to - http:www.totaltele.com/register/edit.asp We recomend you keep a copy of these details in case you forget your password or your 'cookie' is lost. From xasper8d at lobo.net Wed Nov 4 08:25:00 1998 From: xasper8d at lobo.net (X) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 00:25:00 +0800 Subject: Sensar knows! Message-ID: <000301be0808$21a6e960$8d2580d0@ibm> HERE'S LOOKING AT YOU, SENSAR By Peter D. Henig Red Herring Online November 3, 1998 You walk out the door and down the street to find the closest ATM machine, but reaching into your wallet -- "oops" -- you forgot your cash card. Don't you hate that? Well, if Sensar, a biometrics manufacturer of iris identification products has anything to say about it, you'll soon be tossing that ATM card in the can. Sensar has announced the world's largest ever combined equity investment in the field of personal electronic identification -- which is actually a bigger deal than you might think. Moving a step closer, as the company puts it, "toward making PINs and passwords obsolete," Citibank, NCR, J.P. Morgan, Lehman Brothers, Merrill Lynch's wholly-owned subsidiary, KECALP Inc., and others have invested an aggregate of $28 million in Sensar as the company attempts to further roll out its iris identification pilot programs around the world in the hopes of owning this futuristic segment of the biometrics market targeted at the financial services and banking industries. Who cares? Who cares about equity stakes in biometrics companies? Good question, and the same one we asked when the company came a-pitching us their story. It turns out, however, that biometrics is -- as Sensar likes to remind us -- an emerging technology that could soon turn into a hot, if not huge, market around the globe. With the initial results of their European pilot program (set up in a small city outside London), it's "going very, very well, and I do mean very well." According to Per-Olof Loof, Senior Vice President of NCR's Financial Solutions Group, Sensar is pumped to push forward with its iris recognition products, shooting for commercial roll out in 1999, and a real ramp up of shipping product by 2000 and 2001. The Sensar Secure Iris Identification System is currently being used in NCR ATMs and at teller stations at Nationwide Building Society, the United Kingdom's largest savings and loan. Sensar's Iris Identification product was also used by professional athletes for access control and security at the 1998 Winter Olympics in Nagano, Japan. Citibank, an equity investor, has also launched an in-house pilot program using its employees to test iris scan technology. And just how big is this market? While company officials wouldn't be pinned down on specific forecasts, Mr. Olof noted that there are 20 billion customer transactions annually on NCR ATM machines alone, and that NCR has 37 percent market share. That's not a bad partner for a private company like Sensar to have. Moreover, Tom Drury, president and CEO of Sensar noted that there are currently 900,000 ATMs worldwide and 160,000 new machines shipping each year. Smile! The unique aspect of Sensar's products is that you may not even be aware you're being watched. Sensar's iris identification products use standard video cameras and real-time image processing to acquire a picture of a person's iris (the colored portion of the eye), digitally encode it, and compare it with one on file -- all in the space of a few seconds. It allows for highly accurate identification (comparing features across a whole database) and verification (comparing features with a single template) in a user friendly environment; second in accuracy only to retina identification using sans-laser beams. In layman's terms, this might mean opening up an account at your local bank by simply sitting down, having them take a snapshot of your eyeballs, and then hitting the ATMs or tellers for some cash. According to the company, iris recognition uses digitally encoded images of the iris to provide a highly accurate, easy-to-use and virtually fraud-proof means to verify a customer's identity. With 266 identification characteristics, the iris is the human body's most unique physical structure. And unlike other measurable human features in the face, hand, voice or fingerprint, the patterns in the iris do not change over time; receeding hairlines be damned. They're not alone "This landmark agreement puts iris identification light years ahead of any other personal electronic identification technology," said Mr. Drury. "Clearly, this agreement validates Sensar's product as the most accurate, customer-friendly, cost effective personal electronic identification product ever developed." That's not bad cheerleading, but Sensar is clearly not the only biometric firm in the identification market's field of vision. According to the Gartner Group (IT ), Miros and Visionics were the first companies to enter the facial recognition market, although facial recognition tends to be a less accurate means of identification. These two companies offer far cheaper products than Sensar, and are targeting applications to such markets as PC and network access and online transactions. Sensar, however, will also be designing for and marketing to the online environment, as it envisions iris technology hitting the desktop environment. While the Gartner Group forecasts that the more widely accepted fingerprint recognition techniques will be the remote access standard of choice through 2001, it also predicts that "aggressive financial organizations will begin full-scale rollouts of iris recognition for tellers and ATMs by 2000." Hence, the $28 million equity stake in Sensar by this highbrow club of financial institutions. By 2002, Gartner analysts predict iris recognition will be the biometric of choice, an area where IrisScan Inc. holds an exclusive patent. (Sensar uses the iris recognition process developed and licensed from IriScan, Inc., and has the exclusive use of that technology for all financial services transactions.) And as far as exit strategy goes, everybody, including Sensar, still has dreams of Silicon Valley dollars dancing in their heads. "We have a classic Silicon Valley entrepreneurial team," said Mr. Drury, who is located in New Jersey, "and we consider an IPO as a definite exit strategy." We'll be watching. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: bin00000.bin Type: application/octet-stream Size: 5128 bytes Desc: "winmail.dat" URL: From jya at pipeline.com Wed Nov 4 09:07:34 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 01:07:34 +0800 Subject: NYC Smartcards Die Message-ID: <199811041618.LAA31005@camel7.mindspring.com> Chase, Visa and Mastercard have closed down their smartcard trial on the Upper West Side of Manhattan, the NYT reports today. It also says Mondex has closed its Swindon trial. The problem in NY is that the system was too cumbersome to use, needing special readers that were not always up to snuff, compared to the familiar and reliable system for credit cards. Bribing users with start up cash didn't work either. No one ever reloaded their cards. Not all merchants took them, especially those handling only cash transactions. Also, the cards could not be used outside the trial area, and the paper says, "everybody leaves the Upper West Side," without saying where they go to kill time for the day like out of work Koreans who dare not admit the sublimity of being jobless at long last -- money cannot buy the joy. Spokespersons say that they misjudged the customer's desire for cash-like freedom and anonymity (my words). That the best prospect for smartcard future lies in captive users such as college campuses and the military where they expect an all-purpose card will catch on by providing handy ID and money, as well as (unsaid) perfect monitoring and data-gathering. I'll keep my $12-balance card (never found a place to accept it) on the chance that it will be a valuable collector's item for the Edsel Electronic Opium Museum. And we never leave the Upper West Side, well, once, to go to the Harvard Club for a swell DCSNY. Great group, grim dump. From stuffed at stuffed.net Thu Nov 5 01:20:59 1998 From: stuffed at stuffed.net (STUFFED THU NOV 5) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 01:20:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY! Message-ID: <19981105081000.20638.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com> + 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS + 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES + PRIVATE COLLECTION + HOT ROD + A1 HARDCORE + SILICON SLUT + RETRO XXX + NATURAL BODIES + A W PHOTOGRAPHY + ONLY EROTICA + DEBBIE'S SEX SITE + NUDE PICS + BONUS PIC 1 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/8778.htm + BONUS PIC 2 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/23651.htm + BONUS PIC 3 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/24385.htm + BONUS PIC 4 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/24429.htm + BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/6277.htm + MUCH, MUCH MORE! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- If you haven't visited STUFFED in the last few days, you're in for a real treat. It's faster than ever before and now, as a subscriber, you get 35 FREE new pics every day, plus over 100 more at carefully selected FREE sites we link to. This email is never sent unsolicited. Stuffed is the supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full instructions on unsubscribing are in every issue of Eureka! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- From entropi at mail.roava.net Wed Nov 4 09:22:59 1998 From: entropi at mail.roava.net (entropi) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 01:22:59 +0800 Subject: is it real? In-Reply-To: <36413D1D.3C6@pacific.net.sg> Message-ID: <19981104113503.B4836@mail.roava.net> While some of the "information" cited in this post is technically possible, as a sys admin at a small start-up ISP, I can guarantee you that at least one ISP in the US is not kissing MS's ass in such a fashion. One would need to present a warrant in order to obtain our customer information. I sure as hell don't have the time or desire to help Gates track down people whohave managed to find their way around paying for his bloated OS. It seems to me that the ISP would have to be in cahoots with Gates in order to make piracy charges stick. Hence, one more arguement for using small, privacy oriented ISPs. The lesson here is, never trust the telco ;) On Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 09:52:29PM -0800, z�R� wrote: > >>for your info, please. > >> > >>>>Just in case....... > >>>>......... basically.... don't install Windows 98 ..... since they > >have > >>>>this "added" function..... =) > >>>> > >>>> Microsoft slapped two more lawsuit against one teenager and one > >>>>retired worker for using pirated Windows 98 software. > >>>> > >>>>For your information on how Microsoft actually trace PIRATED / > >>>>COPIED / UNLICENSED Windows 98: > >>>> > >>>>Whenever you logon into the internet, during the verifying > >>>>password duration. Your ISP (Internet Service Provider > >>>>eg:SingNET,PacNET,CyberNET,SwiftNET) will download a > >>>>SUB-REGISTRY ENCRYPTED HEXADECIMAL (containing all your > >>>>PROGRAMS serial numbers installed into Win98!!) file from > >>>>your Windows 98 registry. Then they send this SUB-REGISTRY to > >>>>Microsoft for verification. And ONLY Microsoft knows how > >>>>to decode this encypted hexadecimal file. > >>>> > >>>>If Microsoft verified that the serial numbers are authentic, > >>>>then they WILL REGISTER THOSE NUMBERS FOR YOU > >>>>A-U-T-O-M-A-T-C-A-L-L-Y !!! > >>>> > >>>>And if Microsoft denied those serial numbers, then they will send > >>>>an E-Mail to the ISP you dialled into and your ISP will start > >>>>tracing everyone who logons to their systems. That's why during > >>>>sometime for no reason your internet started slowing down. > >>>>And if your ISP verified that the SUB-REGISTRY ENCYPTED HEXADECIMAL > >>>>file is yours, they will send your information over to Microsoft > >>>>Singapore. And there they will decide whether to take actions or not. > >>>> > >>>>There is already 54 cases in Singapore regarding uses of PIRATE > >>>>/ COPIED / UNLICENSED Windows 98. > >>>> > >>>>I do not wish to see any of my friends get into this million dollar > >>>>tangle from Bill Gates, not that I hate this guy, but it really > >>>>sucks when they made such anti-piracy move into the software itself > >>>>- thus forcing everyone to buy Microsoft original's Windows 98, if > >>>>not they'll slap you with a lawsuit. > >>>> > >>>>Forward this mail to as many people you know, and who knows > >>>>you may just save one of your friends from getting sued by Microsoft. > >>>> > >>>> From mmotyka at lsil.com Wed Nov 4 09:48:38 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 01:48:38 +0800 Subject: ?Lions? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <36408C43.106C@lsil.com> > Oh. That's easy. Check out the essay section of "Notice a few things about the mechanics of the model. First, everyone who puts money onto the net, or takes it off, is identified to the complete satisfaction of government regulators everywhere. Digital bearer cash is treated just like physical cash in the eyes of regulators, and is subject to the same regulations. There is no functional difference between a digital cash underwriter and an ATM machine." > Render unto FinCEN. No problem. Flatland can't reach the sky no matter how > hard they try. (hey. I'm rapping... pbbbt. tht. pbbbt. pbbbt. tht... :-)) > It is the financial foundation for a cyber world where regulators will probably have a great deal of trouble operating. They may have no choice but to settle for taking their cut at the borders. I still see many of the same old problems when attempting to trade hard goods, at least in large quantities. The problem of having to explain how you came by a 6000 sqare foot home on 100 acres of mountainside in Lake Pacid is not solved. It's not a total solution but it looks good. It could be a great way to save for retirement - nobody can tell how much E$ you have accumulated, where it came from or where you keep it. Just draw it out as you need it, pay your taxes at the gate and use the 5th when necessary. Regards, Mike From petro at playboy.com Wed Nov 4 09:52:57 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 01:52:57 +0800 Subject: TEMPEST laptops In-Reply-To: <19981101152627.C29091@die.com> Message-ID: At 4:02 PM -0500 11/1/98, Tim May wrote: > >All good points, but there's a big difference between trying to meet FCC >emissions requirements for a commercial product that has to meet cost, >weight, and cosmetic requirements (e.g., a plastic case!), and the scenario >of making a TEMPEST-like box for a laptop. Ferrite beads and copper tape >are a lot different from a sealed box made of 10-gauge copper sheet. Question: What if, instead of trying to entirely prevent leakage, one did a combination of "redirecting" and "masking" emissions. Keep in mind I am asking from a point of total ignorance. To break the question down further, a tempest attack is limited by 2 things, distance from the machine (IIRC, the "level" or "strength" of RF emissions drops by the square of the distance correct?) and (possibly) the presence of other sources of RF in about the same bands. Assuming that the signal level drops by the square of the distance, then one is far more likely to get tempested from a van outside than an airplane overhead correct? In that case, simply design one of Mr. May's brazed copper boxes so that it is open something similar to: ______________ |_____ | / | | _ | | |________/ | |_____________________| Where the laptop (or even a full sized tube monitor & computer) is placed inside. The other question is how hard, given a _specific_ machine would it be to create a "RF" jammer? Sort of an active defense versus the passive defense of a Tempest sheild. build a device that measures the RF coming off a machine, and rebroadcasts the opposite (i.e. the negation) of the signal? This should, or could "flatten" the signal making it useless. Then again, I could be totally wrong. -- "To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather na�ve, and certainly unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust" http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro at playboy.com From jya at pipeline.com Wed Nov 4 09:57:26 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 01:57:26 +0800 Subject: CJ Legal Defense Message-ID: <199811041719.MAA27882@camel7.mindspring.com> Larry Dowling, an Austin attorney participating in CJ's legal defense, has engaged me to gather information for CJ's defense. This message and any related correspondence with me is protected as "attorney privileged information." Larry, who does not use E-mail, has asked me to obtain the following information for forwarding to him (Plaintext and ciphertext welcomed; PK below. Your choice as to posting responses to cpunks.) 1. How many people who saw the CJ posting cited by the IRS as a death threat against federal officials took it as a serious threat? See the IRS complaint at: http://jya.com/cejfiles.htm 2. If you answer "yes" to the question 1, then in your opinion are you of sound mind? 3. How many people are willing to help CJ's defense by answering questions and testify concerning his postings? 4. How many cypherpunks (and others) are willing to attend a trial for CJ in Washington State if the government proceeds to trial? For verification of this message here's Larry's contact: Larry J. Dowling Attorney at Law 606 West Eleventh Street Austin, Texas 78701-2007 Tel: (512) 476-8885 Fax: (512) 476-9918 My contact: John Young 251 West 89th Street, Suite 6E New York, NY 1002 Tel: (212) 873-8700 Fax: (212) 799-4003 ----- There are John Young PGP 2.X PKeys on the servers. Here's PGP5.5: -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.5.2 for non-commercial use mQGiBDUT1GoRBAD96qrjqMjIZK30XrvsEgsDssidjh4gjxoM3XZwYvjuNqohFUYC W6ktcjtHkITXeCP0leprRByF4LIZZp75JrR/FODnpELnTQwzQ03kD/OTRBl+m2ED /3N4T29KwwKdvEvfoKgJ8UYrAb4nS5F7W26kiKAIslpIIKBSdMCWszoBRwCg/ydS 4PuvY6YJMbHc3Ir0OpW9NZ8EANM9K1c7OKDOQEriJOtYqlwd//qKP2GQLvq7Kdel /fjZRKBDW3vRRJZvNkTpMN44eRz2wJxuQh1Jjqj/RWO7+KkeJF1ftVhWcC3kzmBa 7HX2CXmFX2Y+/Fqk1nyzDh2hD5nDidYS4uDMgNfAKs8WBVqWY9l9rHmX3LvoKIUP WYGWBADFmYF5n+6LMwnrEWJb3/G/LPTz8bupjZAX3pk7JAysJjwet1ZRfN356RuF 8p4ia4BY8evpmwG0ICW0skrzPf6EelOGef7RpQN+4CSTHaF2lsMe4PFfQSI9c7lP vGG74byiiR7V9BpWR6yhsB18FZhrCXkp44HQTFEbqbDbKwB3krQdSm9obiBZb3Vu ZyA8anlhQHBpcGVsaW5lLmNvbT6JAEsEEBECAAsFAjUT1GoECwMCAQAKCRCDRF/O eTbvYJ2pAJ0cPHIxXi8h0tbgWOH9NgPof7uH7QCfee3M2/PHjS59s5KTLHi1qrHu O+m5Ag0ENRPUaxAIAPZCV7cIfwgXcqK61qlC8wXo+VMROU+28W65Szgg2gGnVqMU 6Y9AVfPQB8bLQ6mUrfdMZIZJ+AyDvWXpF9Sh01D49Vlf3HZSTz09jdvOmeFXklnN /biudE/F/Ha8g8VHMGHOfMlm/xX5u/2RXscBqtNbno2gpXI61Brwv0YAWCvl9Ij9 WE5J280gtJ3kkQc2azNsOA1FHQ98iLMcfFstjvbzySPAQ/ClWxiNjrtVjLhdONM0 /XwXV0OjHRhs3jMhLLUq/zzhsSlAGBGNfISnCnLWhsQDGcgHKXrKlQzZlp+r0ApQ mwJG0wg9ZqRdQZ+cfL2JSyIZJrqrol7DVekyCzsAAgIIANDxYVQYe4ZXIS8pYMT5 RyCM1IH8Zl2D29Dem3DpaR8nIaaV7S3MqtQ78m0dH2ae5GeyVEmNl1Hbr0N2SHzi tmAMHqU2wriYsWuczFO+55Qman924+0LHJTykpj6LIzs7C426hkj23nuDc4m4y4n p8wCLg8f4ySWwDHdFNgydRwcgC6M8Z5HqFeCsUFX5KPbZjxmMyD+jzoeKSKtju4D MqTMvbotVDycnjB4P2aXEas1iie4irlgB/bNsQCFQY3KdTJsCkb70KwaK+eAzo5Y iXXREZqK9XsIR65AG5B6jenwziwrTEirCtqDs4gqBt54X/IeKIjJDIYwTmUyxIcW GK2JAEYEGBECAAYFAjUT1GsACgkQg0Rfznk272D76gCg/LOtMsq7I0NnuEp3qr/I qKmOJngAoNPsyKKflQrPkA6LAJfFXVRmRSdx =KgPx -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- From petro at playboy.com Wed Nov 4 10:34:02 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 02:34:02 +0800 Subject: Computers as instruments of liberation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 2:22 AM -0500 11/2/98, Tim May wrote: >Fatuous nonsense. After all, those folks down the road may be taxing them, >and may need killing. Or those folks may use computer networks to connect >to others for the purposes of liberation. > >I see computer networks as promoting secessionism, freedom fighting, and >resistance in general. > >The New World Order, the One Worlders, see this as "terrorism." > >Which is why strong encryption is needed. Which is why "they" oppose strong >encryption. > >John Gage has a typically Fabian socialist view that somehow >computerization will lead to an orderly, peaceful world. > >Me, I view networks as the key to retribution and justice. Then again, it could be that after all the "secessionism and freedom fighting" are done with, the resulting "disorder" (as in lack of rulers) will be so ubiquitous that *WARS* will no longer happen, as there is no one to lead the armies. and no one paying taxes to support those armies. That then would be peasce, no? -- "To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather na�ve, and certainly unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust" http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro at playboy.com From atlantis at earthlink.net Wed Nov 4 10:46:10 1998 From: atlantis at earthlink.net (atlantis at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 02:46:10 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199811041811.NAA13498@mail.video-collage.com> 11/04/98 Y2K Solution! 8 Pine Circle Dr., Silicon Valley, Calif. USA OTC Company "TCFG" 21 st. Century Frontier Group has through several members of their administrative research department leaked vital information about their companies efforts. Everyone was tight lipped and interviews were refused, and through un-named sources we have learned that the technology and software solution are in the process of being patented! In over 1640 trials, using various data systems the use of the new technology and software solved the Y2K problem 100% of the time. This small publicly traded company "TCFG" which is just 3 years old is through various sources now negotiating with the "Big Boys"! "TCFG" the letters to look for! From petro at playboy.com Wed Nov 4 11:11:17 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 03:11:17 +0800 Subject: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone Alternative In-Reply-To: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B226@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com> Message-ID: At 5:31 PM -0500 11/2/98, Matthew James Gering wrote: >> paradox of financial cryptography, and, more specifically, >> digital bearer settlement, is not that it gives you privacy >> and freedom (anarchy? :-)) > >Anarchy != privacy However, Privacy + Freedom == Anarchy, or close enough to be indistinguishable. >In fact to many people privacy is a very statist construct, as they clamor >for more privacy regulations by government. No, to many people, the Government is a magical device that can repeal the laws of physics, and change peoples hearts. They don't think that government can *create* privacy, they think it is willing or able to *enforce* it. Then again, there is little enough evidence of thougt amoung "many people". -- "To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather na�ve, and certainly unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust" http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro at playboy.com From scoop at insight.cas.mcmaster.ca Wed Nov 4 11:12:27 1998 From: scoop at insight.cas.mcmaster.ca (Steven Cooper) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 03:12:27 +0800 Subject: hoping to obtains copies of documentation ... Message-ID: <199811041814.NAA27597@insight.cas.mcmaster.ca> There are two informative documents available from GEMPLUS (France) as part of their development kit for their GPK4000 smartcard. 1. GPK4000 Application Notes (for public key applications) Banking, Personal Identification, Internet Transactions 2. Electronic Purse Architecture for MPCOS-EMV (for DES and 3-DES applications) Unfortunately, it the kit costs more than US$4k. Any chance some kind soul could forward a copy of these documents? If so, email me directly to make arrangements. -- scoop From frissell at panix.com Wed Nov 4 11:15:17 1998 From: frissell at panix.com (Duncan Frissell) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 03:15:17 +0800 Subject: Quick, Dear -- Beat Me In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199811041840.NAA00424@mail1.panix.com> At last an Administration Domestic Violence provision I can support. Al Gore has just proposed that victims of domestic violence should be able to easily get new SS#. Collect a dozen. New options for privacy vis-a-vis private individuals and even the government. Protection of "victims" won't work if the new number is reported to the Big Three credit reporting bureaus. DCF From frissell at panix.com Wed Nov 4 11:34:14 1998 From: frissell at panix.com (Duncan Frissell) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 03:34:14 +0800 Subject: ?Lions? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199811041855.NAA03080@mail1.panix.com> At 09:17 AM 11/4/98 -0800, Michael Motyka wrote: >It is the financial foundation for a cyber world where regulators will >probably have a great deal of trouble operating. They may have no choice >but to settle for taking their cut at the borders. Note that the "informal" sector as a percentage of the "formal center is 100% for the Russian economy, 30% for the Italian and Belgium economies and at least 10% of the US economy with conventional payment systems. >I still see many of the same old problems when attempting to trade hard >goods, at least in large quantities. The problem of having to explain >how you came by a 6000 sqare foot home on 100 acres of mountainside in >Lake Pacid is not solved. It's not a total solution but it looks good. Rent don't buy. >It could be a great way to save for retirement - nobody can tell how >much E$ you have accumulated, where it came from or where you keep it. >Just draw it out as you need it, pay your taxes at the gate and use the >5th when necessary. True. Even works for general purposes. Very hard to "net worth" people. Expensive process. DCF From nobody at replay.com Wed Nov 4 11:37:37 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 03:37:37 +0800 Subject: Dead man running; metabolism no problem to candidates Message-ID: <199811041910.UAA11450@replay.com> At 03:13 PM 11/3/98 -0800, Bill Stewart wrote: >On the other hand, it's still tempting to see about putting Frank Zappa >on the ballot. He is a bit metabolically challenged these days, Here in LA, we had a Dead Man Running for sheriff. This Shermie Block character croaked before the race, but his party still urged voting for him, to spite his opponent. (Some "board" would appoint a replacement, so the vote was actually for the board.) From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Wed Nov 4 11:50:37 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 03:50:37 +0800 Subject: 0851244.shtml Message-ID: <199811041847.MAA08231@einstein.ssz.com> Advertisement Welcome to Slashdot Science News Technology Star Wars Prequels The Internet faq code awards slashNET older stuff rob's page submit story book reviews user account ask slashdot advertising supporters past polls features about jobs BSI Review:Handbook of Applied Cryptography Encryption Posted by Hemos on Wednesday November 04, @08:51AM from the just-the-facts-ma'am dept. Giving some actual theory to the whole cryptography discussion, Ian S. Nelson's review of Handbook of Applied Cryptography takes a look at this veritable tome of information. This isn't a book for those of you trying to figure out exactly what the NSA actually does; this is for the real meat and numbers behind it all. Click below for more info. REVIEW: Handbook of Applied Cryptography Alfred J. Menezes, Paul C. van Oorschot, Scott A. Vanstone CRC Press (ISBN 0-8493-8523-7) Nutshell Review: Required reading for any cryptography freak. Rating: 9/10 The Scenario CRC Press has been building a series of books on discrete mathematics and its applications. Doug Stinson wrote the theory book on cryptography (Cryptography: Theory and Practice (ISBN: 0-8493-8521-0, if you don't like this book you'll vomit when you see the Stinson book) and this is the application book on cryptography. It's close to 800 pages chocked full of information. I must confess that I'm a cryptography freak and I'm a little sick of the constant political discussions and lack of tech talk, this book is all tech and might even be a little much if you're not into math. It's a wonderful companion to the Schneier books (Applied Cryptography 1st or 2nd Edition A.K.A. "the crypto bible") if you're into the nitty gritty details of cryptography. What's Bad? I really like this book and I can't find a lot that I don't like about it... but I think in places the math gets a little thick. I have a degree in math and I find myself returning to the math overview section more often than I'd like to admit. If you're not familiar with discrete math and combinatorics then this book probably isn't for you. If you enjoy that stuff, then this will be a piece of cake. If you're looking to build your crypto book library up I'd highly recommend this book before you get some of the more hard-core books. Something else I feel is lacking is cryptanalysis on ciphers. They discuss attacks on various protocols and hashes but actual attacks on ciphers are glossed over. As a companion to Cryptography: Theory and Practice, which covers cryptanalysis in more detail, it is understandable to leave that material out of this book but I think they could discuss it a little more than they do without going into specifics. The no-nonsense style can be a little dry at times, there aren't a lot of jokes or anecdotes to lighten things up in this book. What's Good? Cipher isn't spelled with a 'y' anywhere in this book. It's not filled with a lot of opinion or rumor. It doesn't hardly bring up ITAR, key escrow, or the NSA's mystical superpowers. This book is about cryptographic techniques and a listing of patents is about as political or opinionated as it gets. It is kind of like a textbook without the problems at the end of each chapter. It is written in an outline format with subitems of "Definition", "Fact", "Notes", "Example", and "Algorithm." Each subitem is followed by a few short but concise paragraphs of explanation. Plenty of charts and figures fill the pages and everything is explained well. While it lacks source code, there is certainly enough information for you to implement any of the ciphers, hashes, or protocols covered. It even includes some test vectors for a lot of the algorithms. So What's In It For Me? If you want to learn about cryptography, not the politics but the actual technology, then this is a great book to get before you get over your head. It's very readable and while the math can be a little heavy in places it is accessible and useful. It gives you a good flavor of how more advanced papers and books on the subject are and it avoids the nonacademic discussions surrounding cryptography. To pick this book up, head over to Amazon and help Slashdot out. Table of Contents 1. Overview of Cryptography 1. Introduction 2. Information Security and Cryptography 3. Background on Functions 4. Basic Terminology and Concepts 5. Symmetric-key Encryption 6. Digital Signatures 7. Authentication and Identification 8. Public-key Cryptography 9. Hash Functions 10. Protocols and mechanisms 11. Key establishment, management, and certification 12. Pseudorandom numbers and sequences 13. Classes of attacks and security models 14. Notes and further references 2. Mathematical Background 1. Probability theory 2. Information theory 3. Complexity theory 4. Number theory 5. Abstract algebra 6. Finite fields 7. Notes and further references 3. Number-Theoretic Reference Problems 1. Introduction and overview 2. The integer factorization problem 3. The RSA problem 4. The quadratic residuosity problem 5. Computing Square roots in Zn 6. The Discrete logarithm problem 7. The Diffie-Hellman problem 8. Composite moduli 9. Computing individual bits 10. The subset sum problem 11. Factoring polynomials over finite fields 12. Notes and further references 4. Public-Key Parameters 1. Introduction 2. Probabilistic primality tests 3. (True)Primality tests 4. Prime number generation 5. Irreducible polynomials over Zp 6. Generators and elements of high order 7. Notes and further references 5. Pseudorandom Bits and Sequences 1. Introduction 2. Random bit generation 3. Pseudorandom bit generation 4. Statistical tests 5. Cryptographically secure pseudorandom bit generation 6. Notes and further references 6. Stream Ciphers 1. Introduction 2. Feedback shift registers 3. Stream ciphers based on LFSRs 4. Other stream ciphers 5. Notes and further references 7. Block Ciphers 1. Introduction 2. Background and general concepts 3. Classical ciphers and historical development 4. DES 5. FEAL 6. IDEA 7. SAFER, RC5, and other block ciphers 8. Notes and further references 8. Public-Key Encryption 1. Introduction 2. RSA public-key encryption 3. Rabin public-key encryption 4. ElGamal public-key encryption 5. McElliece public-key encryption 6. Knapsack public-key encryption 7. Probabilistic public-key encryption 8. Notes and further references 9. Hash Functions and Data Integrity 1. Introduction 2. Classification and framework 3. Basic constructions and general results 4. Unkeyed hash functions (MDCs) 5. Keyed hash functions (MACs) 6. Data integrity and message authentication 7. Advanced attacks on hash functions 8. Notes and further references 10. Identification and Entity Authentication 1. Introduction 2. Passwords (weak authentication) 3. Challenge-response identification (strong authentication) 4. Customized zero-knowledge identification protocols 5. Attacks on identification protocols 6. Notes and further references 11. Digital Signatures 1. Introduction 2. A framework for digital signature mechanisms 3. RSA and related signature schemes 4. Fiat-Shamir signature schemes 5. The DSA and related signature schemes 6. One-time digital signatures 7. Other signatures schemes 8. Signatures with additional functionality 9. Notes and further references 12. Key Establishment Protocols 1. Introduction 2. Classification and framework 3. Key transport based on symmetric encryption 4. Key agreement based on symmetric techniques 5. Key transport based on public-key encryption 6. Key agreement based on asymmetric techniques 7. Secret Sharing 8. Conference Keying 9. Analysis of key establishment protocols 10. Notes and further references 13. Key Management Techniques 1. Introduction 2. Background and basic concepts 3. Techniques for distributing confidential keys 4. Techniques for distributing public keys 5. Techniques for controlling key usage 6. Key management involving multiple domains 7. Key life cycle issues 8. Advanced trusted third party services 9. Notes and further references 14. Efficient Implementation 1. Introduction 2. Multiple-precision integer arithmetic 3. Multiple-precision modular arithmetic 4. Greatest common divisor algorithms 5. Chinese remainder theorem for integers 6. Exponentiation 7. Exponent recoding 8. Notes and further references 15. Patents and Standards 1. Introduction 2. Patents on cryptographic techniques 3. Cryptographic standards 4. Notes and further references 16. Appendix A: Bibligraphy of Papers from Selected Cryptographic Forums 1. Asiacrypt/Auscrypt Proceedings 2. Crypto Proceedings 3. Eurocrypt Proceedings 4. Fast Software Encryption Proceedings 5. Journal of Cryptology papers < The demise of Crack.com | Reply | Flattened | 50 Gb drives from Seagate > Related Links Slashdot Cryptography: Theory and Practice book Amazon Ian S. Nelson's NSA More on Encryption Also by Hemos [INLINE] Amazon Info The books here are brought to us in Partnership with Amazon.com. If you follow the links around here, and eventually buy a book, we get a percentage of the cost! Want books about any of these things? Perl, Linux, Unix, Gardening, CGI, Java? Still not finding what you're looking for? Visit Amazon.com from this link, and we still get some credit. Or you could even Search Amazon using this convenient form: ____________________ ______ [INLINE] The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. Slashdot is not responsible for what they say. < Down One | This Page's Threshold: 0 | Up One > (Warning:this stuff is extremely beta right now) Amazon.com confuses "Applied Cryptography" with "H by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 04, @09:09AM For those of you who order the Handbook of Applied Cryptography, don't be suprised if amazon sends you Bruce Schneiers "Applied Cryptography" instead.....its happened to me and another person I know.. [ Reply to this ] politics / history is relevant (Score:1) by harshaw on Wednesday November 04, @10:00AM (User Info) On of the great things about Schneier's Applied Cryptography was how he intertwined the mathematics with the political ramifications of the particular crypto algorithm. I think the study of Crypto needs to be tightly coupled with an understanding of the societal / political issues around it. For instance, you can't simply implement 128 bit RC5 in your product and ship it of to Iraq without having RSA (for patent violations) and the NSA (for the obvious reasons) come down on your head. IMO, Crypto is a VERY tough subject and requires an intense amount of study to understand the math. If the text you are studying is dry and lacking wit or humor, it makes the job even harder :( [ Reply to this ] * politics / history is relevant by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 04, @11:57AM Loved it! I laughed! I cried! (Score:1) by bobse on Wednesday November 04, @11:14AM (User Info) What I liked was the way that each algorithm was reviewed in a very consistent manner. Most algorithms were described not just with words and mathematics (which is good), but also with pseudocode (which is great if you are actually trying to implement this stuff). The consistent, itemized format also allows you to compare the strengths/weaknesses of different algorithms yourself, instead of relying on someone else to do it for you. Very cool. 9.5/10 [ Reply to this ] Price Check (Score:1) by Ralph Bearpark on Wednesday November 04, @12:15PM (User Info) As an onging service to /. readers ... Amazon = $84.95 BarnesAndNoble = $109.50 (HAHAHAHA!) Shopping books = $71.96 Spree books = $67.99 (Is it my imagination, or is /. reviewing increasingly expensive, non-Amazon-discounted books? Surely not. :-)) Regards, Ralph. [ Reply to this ] * Price Check by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 04, @01:12PM The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. Slashdot is not responsible for what they say. < Down One | This Page's Threshold: 0 | Up One > (Warning:this stuff is extremely beta right now) ____________________ ______ All newspaper editorial writers ever do is come down from the hills after the battle is over and shoot the wounded. All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies. Comments are owned by the Poster. The Rest © 1998 Rob Malda. [ home | awards | supporters | rob's homepage | contribute story | older articles | advertising | past polls | about | faq | BSI ] From vznuri at netcom.com Wed Nov 4 12:14:14 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 04:14:14 +0800 Subject: MS "halloween" doc, vs. linux Message-ID: <199811041937.LAA08348@netcom13.netcom.com> some people objected to my last post ranting about MS tactics relative to the browser market. there has been a remarkable development that shows how MS deliberately attempts to "sabotage" markets through FUD etc.... an internal policy memo that discusses their tactics leaked to the public.. good article on Slate about how MS is attempting to sabotage the growth of new free linux software through a systematic strategy of "decommoditizing" or "embrace and extend" where some people call this "copy and corrupt": http://www.salonmagazine.com/21st/ if MS's strategies in the world were as simple as "make good products so people will buy them", who could complain? but they constantly see software development as trench warfare and a bloody, no-hold-barred melee. I'm positive they will be chastised after this antitrust trial finishes.. we'll see.. From nobody at replay.com Wed Nov 4 13:12:03 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 05:12:03 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199811042022.VAA22251@replay.com> To: efc-talk at efc.ca From: David Jones Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 11:21:57 -0500 (EST) Seems a bit strange that just when the private sector is recognizing that smart cards are not yet ready for prime time, the Ontario government is gearing up to launch a "universal smart card" for the delivery of government services. But don't worry, the government smart card will be better than Mondex ... it will have biometric identification. ;-) Ontario considering smart cards http://www.efc.ca/pages/media/national-post.30oct98.html Mondex pulls plug on Guelph pilot project http://www.efc.ca/pages/media/globe.01nov98.html Old-fashioned cash outsmarts smart card http://www.efc.ca/pages/media/national-post.01nov98a.html From rah at shipwright.com Wed Nov 4 13:37:28 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 05:37:28 +0800 Subject: DigiCash Inc. to File Reorganization, Seeks Partners to Drive eCash Forward Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Reply-To: From: "Scott Loftesness" To: Subject: DigiCash Inc. to File Reorganization, Seeks Partners to Drive eCash Forward Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 12:32:56 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Msmail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Subscribe: X-Web-Archive: http://www.philodox.com/dbs-archive/ FYI... DigiCash Inc. to File Reorganization, Seeks Partners to Drive eCash Forward PALO ALTO, CALIF.--November 4, 1998 DigiCash Inc. has announced that it is entering into a Chapter 11 reorganization to allow it to pursue strategic alternatives for its electronic cash ("eCash" �) products and the associated intellectual assets pioneered by DigiCash. According to Scott Loftesness, interim CEO of DigiCash, "The company is exploring a range of potential alternatives including working with major strategic players to finance the market development of eCash or the sale and/or licensing of the Company's intellectual property portfolio." Loftesness added, "eCash�, as it has been developed by DigiCash, is an important and inevitable payment solution in the world of global electronic commerce." The DigiCash payment solution is currently in use by leading banks in Europe and Australia. These banks have deployed the DigiCash eCash solution and continue to add to their respective consumer and merchant eCash acceptance networks. DigiCash's eCash� payment solution offers a secure, low cost and private payment option to consumers for payments of any amount. The intellectual property owned by DigiCash consists of a series of patents, protocols, and software systems that were specifically designed to be privacy protecting for consumers and which also enable other applications like online electronic voting. The ability to pay privately, without revealing personal information, and avoiding the capture of personal transaction information for marketing or other subsequent uses is a growing concern among consumers globally. Contact: Scott Loftesness: (650) 798-8183 or via email: sjl at sjl.net --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From vznuri at netcom.com Wed Nov 4 14:15:35 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 06:15:35 +0800 Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 6.05: U. of T. Students Question Smartcard Technology & Privacy Message-ID: <199811042123.NAA18974@netcom13.netcom.com> From: "ama-gi ISPI" Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 6.05: U. of T. Students Question Smartcard Technology & Privacy Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 00:19:58 -0800 To: ISPI Clips 6.05: U. of T. Students Question Smartcard Technology & Privacy News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) Tuesday November 3, 1998 ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This From: WIRED News, November 2, 1998 http://www.wired.com Students Wonder: How Smart? http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/15978.html by Marlene Blanshay, blanshay at total.net TORONTO -- A coalition of University of Toronto students is leading an open forum on smartcard technology Monday to discuss concerns that a new campus card program may be compromising their privacy. The T-card pilot project began last year when the university distributed 45,000 smartcards to students, staff, and faculty. Like many students across the US, where such programs are common, the 39,000 Toronto volunteers were sold on the convenience of having all their ID combined on a single piece of plastic. "[Students] don't have to carry around so many cards," said University of Toronto registrar Karel Swift, the chairwoman of the school's T-card implementation committee. Not everybody feels that way. The university says it has been open about the new program, but some students feel that the school has not been up front with them about what is being done with information on purchases made with the card. "We just want some answers," said James Hooch of the Identity Technology Working Group, the coalition of students and faculty that will host Monday's forum. "We feel we are being used as a captive market." Andrew Clement, a professor of information studies at the University of Toronto, said the university has an obligation to be more open about the project. "We don't think they are up to some nefarious scheme," said Clement, moderator of Monday's forum. "But they are implementing the new technology, which is going to be used in a wider setting, and should be setting a good example." Nevertheless, Swift said that students have not been left out of the process. "We consulted with student reps when the project was under consideration," Swift said. She added that the university has privacy policy and that their records are protected by a rigorous access to information policy. Some still worry that the university, in the interest of efficiency, is introducing a new technology without looking at the potential uses or misuses. "There is a lot of concern among the students about collection of information for purposes they are not aware of," says Jack Dimond, the university's commissioner for freedom of information and privacy. "My concern is that as smartcards are used more, there is a procedure of review of information it collects. When you begin using the new applications, you have to look at them closely." One freedom and privacy advocate encourages students to boycott the cards. "[Students] should just say, 'I refuse to use this card for any cash purchases until you tell me where this info is going and what you're doing with it,'" said David Jones, president of Electronic Frontier Canada. Copyright � 1994-98 Wired Digital Inc. --------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------ ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research and educational purposes only. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases (up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message "Please enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to: ISPIClips at ama-gi.com . The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia (Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no government funding and takes a global perspective. ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research into electronic, personal and financial privacy with a view toward helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy. But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and generous financial support. If you are concerned about the erosion of your privacy in general, won't you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI Supporter" or by taking out an institute Membership? We gratefully accept all contributions: Less than $60 ISPI Supporter $60 - $99 Primary ISPI Membership (1 year) $100 - $300 Senior ISPI Membership (2 years) More than $300 Executive Council Membership (life) Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership. For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com . We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to any third party. **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Wed Nov 4 14:17:41 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 06:17:41 +0800 Subject: IP: [FP] L.A. DMV Tries to Stem the Tide of Fake Licenses Message-ID: <199811042123.NAA18961@netcom13.netcom.com> From: "ScanThisNews" Subject: IP: [FP] L.A. DMV Tries to Stem the Tide of Fake Licenses Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 22:30:13 -0600 To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com SCAN THIS NEWS [This is a little dated, but well worth reading] -------------------------------------------- Sunday, April 5, 1998 DMV Tries to Stem the Tide of Fake Licenses Crime: Demand for IDs fuels counterfeiting rings and corruption inside the agency. Officials respond with anti-tampering features, more monitoring of workers. By VIRGINIA ELLIS, Times Staff Writer SACRAMENTO - The California driver's license's preeminence as a form of identification has spawned a thriving black market for fraudulent licenses and a major corruption scandal in the state's motor vehicle department, records and interviews show. In recent years, as the lowly driver's license has been redesigned to make it more tamper-resistant, the card has increasingly become the dominant piece of identification for cashing checks, obtaining credit and securing government services. This, in turn, has caused the black market value for licenses to soar, providing a catalyst for counterfeiting and bribery of Department of Motor Vehicles employees. Scores of DMV workers in offices from San Diego to Sacramento already have been caught illegally issuing driver's licenses, and officials say many more are under investigation. "We have, in effect, created a cottage industry," said Steve Solem, a DMV deputy director. "A lot of different changes have been evolving over the years that have made...people feel the need to get a driver's license at any cost." As a result, officials report that: * Counterfeiting rings operate in every large city in the state, serving up fake licenses of varying quality for sale on the streets. In Los Angeles, business is so competitive that state investigators say a prospective customer can bargain for the best price. A counterfeit identification package, including a license, usually sells for $100, but state agents have paid as little as $35. * At many of the DMV's busiest offices, scam artists make use of loopholes in procedures to get legitimate licenses, which are then peddled to undocumented immigrants or suspended drivers. In Santa Clara County, a four-month surveillance of DMV offices recently led to 26 felony and 16 misdemeanor arrests for using false documents to obtain driver's licenses. * In the past two years, 144 DMV employees were fired or otherwise disciplined for illegal activity, primarily driver's license fraud. Most cases were referred for prosecution. The corruption affected more than a third of the DMV offices. "It's by far the biggest scandal and case of severe corruption in my 16 years here," said state Sen. Steve Peace (D-El Cajon), who heads a legislative task force on personal privacy. "It's not a single organized entity. It's a number of entrepreneurial criminal activities." Late this year, officials plan to begin issuing new licenses with even more sophisticated anti-tampering features to help stem the tide of license-related crime. Among the features will be a tiny ghost image designed to make it harder to substitute one person's photo for another. "You've got to be as technologically alert as the criminals out there," said DMV Director Sally Reed. "You've got to keep changing the license. You've got to keep changing your practices." Complicating the task is an overwhelming DMV workload. The department licenses more than 20 million California drivers, issues more than 6 million new licenses and identification cards a year, and operates 172 licensing centers around the state. How many fake and fraudulent licenses may be in circulation is impossible to calculate. But state officials say the problem is rampant, its impact on society insidious. A fraudulent driver's license that is used to steal someone's identity can cause years of frustration as the victim suddenly finds his or her credit destroyed. Or the fake license can put a convicted drunk driver back on the highway, where the next accident may cause someone's death. The role of the driver's license in criminal activity was heightened not only by the technological changes that made it so widely accepted, but by governmental decisions to use it as a tool for punishment. New laws have made a larger and larger pool of people susceptible to losing their license for activities unrelated to driving. The license can be suspended for spraying graffiti, failure to pay child support, truancy and certain kinds of prostitution. And immigrants who lack proper proof of residency cannot be issued one. "If you're a drunk driver, you want a fake ID," said Alison Koch, a senior special investigator for the DMV in Sacramento. "If you're in a gang, you want a fake ID. If you're a deadbeat dad, you want a fake ID. If you're an illegal alien, you want a fake ID. If you want to commit check or credit card fraud, you want a fake ID. "There is hardly a crime out there that doesn't demand some kind of fraudulent identification." For many minor crimes, she said, a bogus license - even a poor one - is all the fraud artist needs. The quick glance that many business people give the license before cashing a check or accepting a credit card is not enough to discern that it's fake. For more sophisticated crimes, said Vito Scattaglia, an area commander for DMV investigators in Los Angeles, criminals want the real thing - and this demand for legitimate licenses has put heavy pressure on low-level state employees to commit fraud. "When you have a technician who is making $2,000 to $2,400 a month and you have an individual who is willing to pay $1,000 to process one driver's license, you don't have to be a genius to figure out how tempting that is," he said. But Peace, the state senator, said high-level officials did not recognize how extensively their department had been infiltrated by criminals until an embarrassing KCBS-TV Channel 2 report last year caught a DMV employee on camera processing illegal licenses. Until the Los Angeles broadcast, only a handful of DMV investigators had been monitoring employee fraud, and they were struggling with a huge backlog. Then Reed temporarily assigned 213 DMV investigators to employee fraud and announced that it would be the agency's No. 1 priority. The results were staggering. Using everything from surveillance to informants, investigators caught dozens of DMV employees around the state processing illegal licenses. Many were teamed up with grifters on the outside, who usually worked the DMV parking lots, preying mostly on immigrants who would be guaranteed a license for about $1,000 to $2,000. Typical was the case of an 18-year Torrance employee who was targeted after a DMV computer in Sacramento showed irregularities in licenses he had issued. After investigators interviewed dozens of his customers, the employee was charged with computer fraud and altering public records. "The first person I interviewed, I knew I was on the right trail," recalled Ken Erickson, a senior DMV special investigator. "The customer was honest. He said, 'Yeah, I'm here illegally and I can't read or write either English or Spanish.'" But, Erickson said, data the Torrance employee had entered into the DMV computer stated that the man was a legal resident of California who had passed the written driver's test in English. Investigators searched the employee's car and found $14,280 in cash stashed behind the front seat, Erickson said. They estimated that over a 15-month period he had improperly issued at least 70 licenses. After pleading no contest to two felony counts, he was fined $14,280 and placed on three years probation. He also was fired and barred from future government employment. The employee fraud, Peace said, is "not some sort of single grand conspiracy with a godfather sitting on top pulling levers." "What it has been is a culture within the department that has allowed for a whole variety of entrepreneurial criminal behavior. It was a culture which says, 'I've got my little deal and you've got yours. Don't mess with mine and I won't mess with yours.'" Although the problem predated Reed's appointment as director, Peace faulted her for initially disbelieving it and being "slow to react" until the television report. Reed acknowledged the bad publicity was a wake-up call but disputed Peace's contention the DMV has a culture of corruption, saying the vast majority of the DMV's 8,600 workers are law-abiding. A spokesman for the California State Employees Assn., which represents DMV employees, accused the department of overreacting. He said the crackdown has destroyed worker morale and become so broad that "it could very likely be called a witch hunt." Investigators concede that corruption within the DMV probably pales compared to that on the outside. Richard Steffen, chief consultant for a legislative task force investigating state government, said crime rings are able to get legitimate licenses simply by knowing how to work the system. He said they know, for example, that photos and thumbprints are not taken until the end of the licensing procedure, a process tailor-made for the use of ringers. The ringer takes the driver's test, then the customer comes in the next day and completes the process. "There is a pattern here that is known on the street," said Steffen, who is preparing to release a report on the DMV. "It's not like masterminds come up with this." Birth certificates, which the DMV requires, are easily counterfeited, and phony ones are hard to spot, officials said. The appearance of birth certificates varies from state to state and sometimes, as in California, from county to county. Adding to the problem is California's open birth certificate procedure, which allows virtually anyone to get a certified copy of anyone else's birth record. One team of ringers arrested by the California Highway Patrol was found with counterfeit birth certificates from Oklahoma, Utah, New York and Texas, according to Bruce Wong, a senior DMV investigator in San Jose. "They were driving up the state from Southern California, stopping at different DMV offices and submitting license applications under different names," he said. "In one day of driving, they had accumulated eight different instructional permits, which they could then sell along with the counterfeit birth certificate." Solem said some loopholes in licensing procedures will be closed when the department begins issuing the new licenses and taking photos and thumbprints at the beginning of the process. "But this is a problem that's going to be with us," he added. "Government does something and the crooks figure a way around it and then government catches up. It goes on and on." Scattaglia said much of the counterfeiting may have its roots south of the border, but no one knows for sure because investigators have only been able to arrest the sellers, not the suppliers. "We have gone into places and recovered sheets and sheets of holograms and state seals - literally a setup [for] putting a license together," he said. "But we've never found the commercial facility that has the printing presses and all the orders. The informants we have all indicated that that place is somewhere in Mexico." Beth Givens, director of the San Diego-based Privacy Rights Clearinghouse, a consumer information and advocacy program, predicted that driver's license fraud will always be difficult to control because it's not a violent crime and punishment is light. "If these criminals happened to break and enter or use a gun, it would be one thing," she said. "But because they're using paper and documents, they're not seen as a threat to society." Banking officials are starting to rethink their heavy reliance on the driver's license. "That's certainly a trend that's underway because they are increasingly fake," said Gregory Wilhelm, lobbyist for the California Bankers Assn. Los Angeles Times ======================================================================= Don't believe anything you read on the Net unless: 1) you can confirm it with another source, and/or 2) it is consistent with what you already know to be true. ======================================================================= Reply to: ======================================================================= To subscribe to the free Scan This News newsletter, send a message to and type "subscribe scan" in the BODY. Or, to be removed type "unsubscribe scan" in the message BODY. For additional instructions see www.efga.org/about/maillist.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "Scan This News" is Sponsored by S.C.A.N. Host of the "FIGHT THE FINGERPRINT!" web page: www.networkusa.org/fingerprint.shtml ======================================================================= **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From setiathome at ssl.Berkeley.EDU Wed Nov 4 14:27:03 1998 From: setiathome at ssl.Berkeley.EDU (SETI@home) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 06:27:03 +0800 Subject: SETI@home Project Update Message-ID: <199811042141.NAA10920@siren.ssl.berkeley.edu> Dear SETI at home volunteer: Thank you for signing up for SETI at home. We're on schedule to distribute the SETI at home screensaver program in April 1999, and we'll send you another email when that happens. On October 30 we began recording data at the world's largest radio telescope, located in Arecibo, Puerto Rico. Preliminary versions of the screensaver program and the data distribution system have been completed. On November 20 we will begin testing the system with a group of 100 users analyzing real data (sorry - no more volunteers needed). Over the next few months we will complete the testing, making sure the system will handle large numbers of users. We are pleased to thank SETI at home's sponsors and technology partners: the Planetary Society (a 100,000 member organization founded by Carl Sagan), Paramount Studios (in conjunction with their new movie, Star Trek IX: Insurrection), Sun Microsystems, EDT, Fuji Film Computer Products, Informix, and individual donors like you. The screen saver will be free for everyone, but if you can consider making a tax-deductible donation to SETI at home, please visit http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/donor.html. We also invite you to become a member of The Planetary Society. You can visit their site at http://www.planetary.org. For further SETI at home information and news, please see http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu. Thank you again for offering to participate in SETI at home. Our work is enhanced and inspired by the enthusiasm of thoughtful, adventurous, and generous people like you. If you wish to remove your name from the SETI at home email list, please send an empty email message to this address with subject header "remove". Best wishes, The SETI at home project From nobody at replay.com Wed Nov 4 14:27:05 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 06:27:05 +0800 Subject: Programmer Needed for Privacy Tool Implementation ProjectProgrammer Needed for Privacy Tool Implementation Project Message-ID: <199811042148.WAA04222@replay.com> As the World Wide Web Consortium's Platform for Privacy Preferences Project (P3P) specification is nearing completion, it's time to start working on P3P implementations. I have an immediate opening for a java programming contractor to implement a P3P user agent as a client-side proxy. For details on P3P see http://www.w3.org/p3p/ This is an excellent opportunity for a programmer who wants to help make it easier for people to maintain their privacy online. An outstanding candidate for this position would have: - several years of programming experience, including project design experience - experience with browser plugg-ins, Web proxy servers, or Web clients (or at least some familiarity with the HTTP protocol) - Windows GUI development experience - user interface design experience - familiarity with XML I'm looking for someone who can start ASAP, preferably in the next month. This project is expected to last 3 to 6 months, most likely 6 months. We would prefer someone who can work on site at the AT&T Labs-Research Shannon Laboratory in Florham Park, NJ, but will consider outstanding applicants who would prefer to work remotely. Florham Park is in a nice suburban area less than an hour from midtown Manhattan. Please email lorrie at research.att.com for more information or to apply. -- Lorrie Faith Cranor lorrie at research.att.com AT&T Labs-Research 973-360-8607 180 Park Ave. Room A241 FAX 973-360-8970 Florham Park, NJ 07932 http://www.research.att.com/~lorrie/ From netcenter-news1 at netscape.com Wed Nov 4 14:35:55 1998 From: netcenter-news1 at netscape.com (netcenter-news1 at netscape.com) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 06:35:55 +0800 Subject: FREE CD With Your Free Netcenter Membership Message-ID: <199811042203.RAA28336@mail.video-collage.com> **************************************************** CLICK HERE TO JOIN NETCENTER NOW AND GET A FREE CD! http://home.netscape.com/welcome/musicblvd/3.html **************************************************** Dear Internet User: You are receiving this offer because you are a valued Netscape customer. And now we would like for you to discover for yourself why millions of people have signed up for Netscape Netcenter, and why industry analysts say Netcenter "goes well beyond the services available from any other portal site."* Becoming a Netscape Netcenter member is fast, easy and FREE. PLUS, IF YOU SIGN UP NOW YOU'LL GET A FREE CD FROM MUSIC BOULEVARD! Netscape Netcenter gives you the best of what you need on the Internet, customized especially for you. Just look at what you'll get with your free membership: FREE PERMANENT EMAIL When you open a Webmail account you can access email from any Internet- connected computer in the world. FREE CUSTOMIZED HOME PAGE With "My Netscape" you can create your own customized homepage with all the information you want exactly where you want it. FREE AOL INSTANT MESSAGING You can communicate INSTANTLY with friends, co-workers and family any time you want. You don't even need to be an AOL subscriber! FREE DOWNLOADS OF NETSCAPE SOFTWARE A Netscape Exclusive! Download the latest version of Communicator! FREE NEWS AND SUBSCRIPTIONS All the news you need, any time you need it, from Inbox Direct to your desktop. You get instant access to more than 135 popular online publications. FREE AUTOMATIC SOFTWARE UPDATES Smart Update keeps your Netscape software current by automatically letting you know every time an update is available. FREE NETCENTER MEMBER DIRECTORY Find other members any time, from friends and colleagues to other professionals in your industry. FREE 17 INDIVIDUAL CHANNELS OF VALUABLE INFORMATION >From computing to travel, lifestyles to sports, and health to autos -- you can find almost everything on Netcenter. FREE CONTINUOUSLY UPDATED ABC NEWS The latest news updated throughout your busy day. Join NOW -- It's Free! There's so much more you'll get with your FREE Netcenter membership -- from Net Search to Classifieds to our comprehensive Web Directory to What's New, What's Cool and complete Yellow and White Pages. Plus there are lively discussion groups and THE BEST WEB CONTENT YOU CAN FIND ANYWHERE. You can even get Netcenter in 17 international versions! And you'll be glad to know that navigating the net as a Netscape Netcenter member is both easy and fun. Keep in mind that many of our most popular services, like Webmail and Instant Messages, ARE RESERVED FOR REGISTERED MEMBERS. So why not join now and start enjoying all these FREE SERVICES and get a FREE CD from Music Boulevard! Sincerely, Tom Leonard Netcenter Marketing JOIN INSTANTLY! Click here and you're IN! http://home.netscape.com/welcome/musicblvd/3.html We respect your online time and Internet privacy. If you would prefer not to receive further marketing promotions from Netcenter, reply to this message with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. P.S. Join Netcenter NOW and get a free CD from Music Boulevard! Don't wait...there's no better time to join. We're eager to welcome you as a new Netscape Netcenter member. *Source: Los Angeles Times, 7/16/98 From mgering at ecosystems.net Wed Nov 4 15:17:59 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 07:17:59 +0800 Subject: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone Alternative Message-ID: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B232@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com> [dbts and e$ Cc: dropped] Petro wrote: > However, Privacy + Freedom == Anarchy, or close enough to be > indistinguishable. However much I may or may not agree with you, that is an entirely subjective judgement. In political context, anarchy = without rule of government -- nothing more, nothing less. That necessarily means you will have freedom from government, but does not imply you will have freedom from others. Ditto for privacy. In fact there is good claim that privacy will not exist in anarchy except by those that decide to use the tools and methods to achieve it -- cat and mouse game same as today, except the corporate cats are bound by economics (the value of data to them versus the cost to obtain it) whereas government cats are not. Matt From setiathome at ssl.Berkeley.EDU Wed Nov 4 15:28:05 1998 From: setiathome at ssl.Berkeley.EDU (SETI@home) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 07:28:05 +0800 Subject: SETI@home Project Update Message-ID: <199811042141.NAA10924@siren.ssl.berkeley.edu> Dear SETI at home volunteer: Thank you for signing up for SETI at home. We're on schedule to distribute the SETI at home screensaver program in April 1999, and we'll send you another email when that happens. On October 30 we began recording data at the world's largest radio telescope, located in Arecibo, Puerto Rico. Preliminary versions of the screensaver program and the data distribution system have been completed. On November 20 we will begin testing the system with a group of 100 users analyzing real data (sorry - no more volunteers needed). Over the next few months we will complete the testing, making sure the system will handle large numbers of users. We are pleased to thank SETI at home's sponsors and technology partners: the Planetary Society (a 100,000 member organization founded by Carl Sagan), Paramount Studios (in conjunction with their new movie, Star Trek IX: Insurrection), Sun Microsystems, EDT, Fuji Film Computer Products, Informix, and individual donors like you. The screen saver will be free for everyone, but if you can consider making a tax-deductible donation to SETI at home, please visit http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/donor.html. We also invite you to become a member of The Planetary Society. You can visit their site at http://www.planetary.org. For further SETI at home information and news, please see http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu. Thank you again for offering to participate in SETI at home. Our work is enhanced and inspired by the enthusiasm of thoughtful, adventurous, and generous people like you. If you wish to remove your name from the SETI at home email list, please send an empty email message to this address with subject header "remove". Best wishes, The SETI at home project From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Wed Nov 4 15:39:31 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 07:39:31 +0800 Subject: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd) Message-ID: <199811042301.RAA09484@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: Matthew James Gering > Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone > Alternative > Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 14:29:47 -0800 > Petro wrote: > > However, Privacy + Freedom == Anarchy, or close enough to be > > indistinguishable. This is silly. > for privacy. In fact there is good claim that privacy will not exist in > anarchy except by those that decide to use the tools and methods to achieve > it -- cat and mouse game same as today, except the corporate cats are bound > by economics (the value of data to them versus the cost to obtain it) > whereas government cats are not. They're bound by economics and nothing else, not even the government cats. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rah at shipwright.com Wed Nov 4 15:46:56 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 07:46:56 +0800 Subject: DigiCash Inc. to File Reorganization, Seeks Partners to DriveeCash Forward In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Okay. Contrary to my own previous -- and painfully recent -- opinions on the matter, Digicash, Inc., is, more or less, in play again, or it will be if there is enough money chasing it. Whatever "enough" means. Putting on my Gordon Gekko hat, here, I'm interested in finding out a few things. Yes, I have seen the greater fool theory of the blind signature patent operate more than a few times, but I am, nonetheless, driven to think about this, and I might as well be public in my musing, at least for the time being. For expenses of any new company, it should be pretty clear by now what I would do with the DigiCash technology portfolio. I would put a real good intellectual property lawyer on the payroll, keep the cryptographers who would still consent to stick around, keep or improve whatever software test people they have left, and do nothing but sell licenses and implementation certifications, using the the underwiting model at as a roadmap. For this imaginary company's revenue, aside from direct fees for validating a developer's, and possibly an underwriter's, implementation of the protocol, the trustee would be the only point of patent royalty collection and payment from the underwriters and developers to the new patent holder. As far as the current installed base is concerned, I would probably spin off a company to support those customers, and give it a non-exclusive license as if it were any other developer. This assumes, of course, that DigiCash BV/Inc. didn't issue exclusive-by-country licenses. While it appears on the surface that they have done exactly this, I have been met with what seems like incredulity from various DigiCash folks when I talk about it, so, for the time being, I'll take them at their word when they tell me it isn't so. Actually, when I think about it, it may be immaterial, as there are lots of countries on the internet to park underwriters and trustees in, and they can denominate their bearer cash instruments in any currency they want. One way or another, the software side of DigiCash would be gone. We figure out what the net present value is of the current licenses, and hope that a company can be formed around that cashflow and spun off into a separate software development company. If we're lucky, we make money on the spinoff and keep the patent. If we're not lucky, DigiCash will probably have to get rid of it's current obligations before *anyone* clueful would step in to pick up the patents, and just the patents, alone. Obviously, what has been spent so far building DigiCash, BV or Inc., is immaterial to any discussion of the future. Just like what happened to Chaum, et. al., when Negroponte and companies um, executed, the purchase of last version of DigiCash, we have to completely forget the all the money which has been spent on Digicash BV, now Digicash Inc., so far, and ignore the howls of the current investors, as painful as that may be to listen to. :-). They knew the job was dangerous when they took it, anyway... Okay, that's a nice story. How about some actual data? I expect the best way to get a handle of royalties is to start soliciting actual projected royalty estimates from potential developers and underwriters, but, frankly, I think that most developers and underwriters, like the rest of us, have no real idea how much money they're going to make. Nonetheless, if anyone's interested in telling me, offline, what they think they would would be fair royalty payments, either as an underwriter or as a developer, I'd like to hear their estimates. My PGP key is attached. My own rule of thumb, for cash anyway, is that an underwriter can probably charge no more than a bank charges to one of their non-customer ATM transactions. That's probably no more than $3.00 a withdrawl. They also get to keep the interest on the reserve account, if any, of course. Frankly, if the royalties are low enough, that may be more than enough revenue to bootstrap a business with, and I would personally lobby for as low a royalty structure as possible. That, of course, is driven entirely by the cost/revenue picture, but it might be that a majority of the short-term operations can be bootstrapped out of validation fees. That leaves all the other potential markets for blind-signature macroscale digital bearer settlement, everything from long-duration bandwidth purchases for IP or voice dialtone on up to actual securities transactions themselves. Most of these potential applications will occur after the patents expire, but whoever owns these patents should allow not only licenses to all comers, but, more to the point, should allow all *licensees* to worry about the legal ramafications of the patents' use. If a particular licensee can find a legal jurisdiction to offer utterly anonymous digital bearer instruments backed by totally anonymous reserves, then, as long as the licensee pays up, god bless 'em. The patents should be licensed within the law, certainly, but, other than that, their use should be considered value neutral, like all technology. As in all bearer markets before them, the digital bearer trustee will be the point of maximum legal compliance, and, as such, will be the functional "policeman" of the system. I leave the interesting solution of bearer-backed trustees for some other day, probably after the patents have long expired. Okay. There's lots more to talk about, of course, but I'm kind of tapped out on this for the time being. If you're an intellectual property lawyer, and you fancy yourself running the DigiCash patent portfolio, contact me directly. I'm not sure exactly what I can do, if anything, but I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on this, as the potential core person of this as yet imaginary enterprize, up to, and including what it would cost for you to sign on for this much fun as at least in-house counsel, if not the actual CEO. :-). In addition, if someone has a reasonable non-proprietary(!) estimate of the projected revenues on all those outstanding ecash contracts, that would be nice to know as well. The terms of those contracts, are, of course, probably unknowable at the moment, at least until someone has enough known scratch to belly up to the table, sign an NDA and take a peek. Of course, then they couldn't tell us anything anyway... Isn't this fun? Cheers, Bob Hettinga -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5 iQEVAwUBNkDcTMUCGwxmWcHhAQFEgwf8DBmtjkxkrvwRBNdaMHwLGkjPHPFvhrNq +IwQrajratocfyKDmeUIiC4EmPIFxstFg59plpzgnM8TTXqSebqsYZaycVZquo03 SDI2cXV9H4O+iUdW9glpT4R0aZbGMXTu3ji9wbvvYjSqVro4w6cq3f9Tk6QGGCdW AQQolnnTkSjqXeafWrD0WxDXbQCw83lKcrTmFHAkP/YzDD8Z5obVD4+THd3Zlcys jyAlvAcZFwcxtifumBh8vNrSLc0vdkdD4+Mw5TDRqRMHynF+DLE6Ek2kOL+3blJ2 R6vfaYzVJTRjJFtVdYrbctWAkbWCL/Obf31oZzsz1cWtNn6TgVmG/g== =M1uk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Here are my PGP keys, for them as want 'em: -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5 mQGiBDS2zbQRBADkXbVlxD0ABf66RPDa//8wtyO3evDk3dMLl9gV9W6W8BQds9gM 2KyV/wnHq62tW7PSjw/CJY83da45KeX04LUNGD2TOOCRdYNBhVhmSWlXbomKMJNi +TCisQKnS9U/ybFEKJErNpoapsh6m02RK4WADZk0pwO1Rh4K+P6sVRJktwCg/8iQ uMwVCdEaKgo7RRTvRcA4NusEAIDKsblYtLCFagDELioT8YfV5FgROpmlhZWwCG7e VrKQwQCFawJqrORMVOkjmppYAvPMoiAXT1vdlHXecB8VSzQjH92e7mrN/PSWIuTg 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Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Wed Nov 4 15:59:21 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 07:59:21 +0800 Subject: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd) Message-ID: <199811042335.RAA09772@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 18:29:20 -0500 > From: Robert Hettinga > Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone > (fwd) > At 6:01 PM -0500 on 11/4/98, Jim Choate wrote, from the bowels of my killfile: > > > > They're bound by economics and nothing else, not even the government cats. > > Amen. Which is why it's a *BAD* idea. > A government is just another economic actor. A very large economic actor > with lots of guns and a monopoly on force, but an economic actor > nonetheless. You need to look around, the government has NO monopoly on force. > Reality is not optional. Absolutely, that's why any free-market/anarchy is doomed to fail. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rah at shipwright.com Wed Nov 4 16:00:21 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 08:00:21 +0800 Subject: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone(fwd) In-Reply-To: <199811042301.RAA09484@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: At 6:01 PM -0500 on 11/4/98, Jim Choate wrote, from the bowels of my killfile: > They're bound by economics and nothing else, not even the government cats. Amen. A government is just another economic actor. A very large economic actor with lots of guns and a monopoly on force, but an economic actor nonetheless. Reality is not optional. Cheers, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From solution at hampton.net Thu Nov 5 08:18:02 1998 From: solution at hampton.net (solution at hampton.net) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 08:18:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199811051617.IAA13208@toad.com> 11/05/98 INTERNET NEWS 8 Pine Circle Dr. Silicon Valley,Ca. USA INTERNET NEWS/Y2K (YEAR 2000 SOLUTION) Most of the information from the silicon valley is obtained from the local pubs/bars. Un-named sources discussing the Y2K problem at the local brew revealed, that 2 of the big valley software manufacturers are in a bidding war for software technology created by a small publicly traded company OTC-BB symbol:"TCFG" that is in the process of obtaining a patent. This 3 year old emerging growth company has tested and out performed the "Big Boys" with a system industry experts consider to be a technological breakthrough! Several rogue ex-employees of the "giants" joined this company and claims abound about their success. If truth is stronger than fiction then "TCFG" is going to play with the big boys. We all know the Y2K problem and what the real solution would mean to all of us $$! How much will they pay "TCFG"? Back to the pub friday evening for more info... From jya at pipeline.com Thu Nov 5 08:34:55 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 08:34:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: Project 415 Message-ID: <199811051634.LAA27413@camel8.mindspring.com> Paul Dore, a British engineer involved in SETI research who had picked up signals from a secret NSA/GCHQ intelligence satellite and believed them to be from outer space, was asked by the agencies on November 2 to cease and desist publishing his findings and to cancel a planned press conference to tell his latest news, or face punishment under the Official Secrets Act. The agencies said the satellite was part of "Project 415." http://jya.com/project415.htm This was noted here a few days ago, but that was before Paul's description of the agencies' visit to his home was pulled from its original URL, along with related files which described his findings as well as confirmations by other researchers: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hall/7193/cancelled.html A Project 415 (maybe the same) was first reported by Duncan Campbell in a 1988 article in The New Statesman, in which he also gave the first public description of ECHELON: http://jya.com/echelon-dc.htm It may not be related to Paul Dore's situation but Duncan's article has had some 9,000 downloads in the last 24 hours. Anyone seen a news report on the topic? Thanks to KF for the lead. From apowell at freedomforum.org Thu Nov 5 05:43:55 1998 From: apowell at freedomforum.org (Adam Powell) Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 08:43:55 -0500 Subject: blunder, or forecast? Message-ID: Once again the Net had it first, this time by accident... http://www.freedomforum.org/technology/1998/11/4abc.asp ABC News election-eve Net 'mistake' accurately predicted most close races By Adam Clayton Powell III World Center 11.4.98 It did not happen, but just imagine if it had: The night before Fox television aired the World Series, the Fox Web site posts a complete set of inning-by-inning box scores for the upcoming Yankees-Padres games. After leaving the results online for a while, Fox pulls them down and says it was all a big mistake. Then the Yanks and the Padres play the Series, and nearly 90% of the innings show the same scoring as in the "mistake" posting. Sports fans, reporters and bookies would all cry foul, right? Now consider what happened this week: On Monday night, ABC News accidentally posted complete state-by-state election results on its Web site, hours before any votes were cast yesterday. ABC withdrew the numbers by mid-evening Monday, saying they were all a mistake and a test of their systems. "It wasn't our finest hour," Michelle Bergman, manager of communications for ABCNews.com, told the Associated Press yesterday. And, indeed, in the days before each national election, the major national news organizations hold "rehearsals" for reporting election night, using "dummy" numbers. Or maybe ... With almost all election districts reporting, those "phony" ABC News test numbers on Monday accurately matched the outcomes of the Senate and governor races in 61 of the 70 contests ^� 87%. It would be difficult to find a political analyst, pundit or bookie who even came close. While every major analyst on Sunday was predicting the Republicans would pick up anywhere from one to four Senate seats this week, ABC's test numbers on Monday had it right on the money: a 55-45 GOP-Democrat split, for no net change. Even more remarkable, in some of the most closely watched contests, ABC News election eve "test" numbers matched the final vote count almost precisely ^� within one percentage point. In the Florida governor's race, Jeb Bush beat Buddy MacKay by 55% to 45% ^� the exact final result rehearsed by ABC News on Monday. In Texas, Jeb's brother George won by 69% to Mauro's 30% ^� the very result used in the ABC rehearsal on Monday. ABC News rehearsal numbers also matched the exact final results, to within one percentage point, of the governors' races in Alabama, Colorado, Wisconsin and Wyoming. All told, ABC's "error" had the correct candidates winning the governors mansions in 32 of 36 elections yesterday. The only gubernatorial contests where ABC had the wrong candidate winning were in Hawaii, Iowa, New Mexico and Minnesota, where few predicted Reform Party candidate Jesse Ventura would be the new governor. In the Senate elections, ABC's test numbers matched the winners in 29 of 34 contests, including all of the major races. ABC on Monday had posted "WIN" indicators next to Boxer, Schumer, Fitzgerald, Murray and Hollings, all of whom won close races in California, New York, Illinois, Washington and South Carolina, respectively. ABC also had the correct result in Wisconsin. The final vote totals this afternoon showed Russ Feingold narrowly won reelection by 38,410 votes. On Monday, ABC's rehearsal numbers showed Feingold winning reelection by a margin of 39,000 votes. But ABC is not claiming these numbers were the result of any new forecasting models or special analysis. "It was completely random," Bergman told free! this afternoon. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- the moderated mailing list of politics and technology To subscribe: send a message to majordomo at vorlon.mit.edu with this text: subscribe politech More information is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lmccarth at cs.umass.edu Wed Nov 4 18:25:23 1998 From: lmccarth at cs.umass.edu (Lewis McCarthy) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:25:23 +0800 Subject: Thurs. night seminar in W. Mass.: All About Alice (and Bob, Eve, and Oscar, too): The Research Culture of Cryptography Message-ID: <36410383.A502BDCF@cs.umass.edu> This talk by Jean-Francois Blanchette tomorrow (Thurs.) night may be of interest to those of you in the vicinity of western Massachusetts. Check www.hampshire.edu for a map and directions. Enjoy -Lewis --- begin forwarded message --- ISIS wrote: Seminar: All About Alice (and Bob, Eve, and Oscar, too): The Research Culture of Cryptography Location: West Lecture Hall, Franklin Patterson Hall, Hampshire College, =>=>=> Thursday, November 5, 7:30pm Modern cryptology researchers have been enthusiastically portrayed in the media as cyberspace's Freedom Fighters, and the fruit of their work, as tangible evidence that computers not only control, but can also liberate. In this seminar, we'll see how this simplistic picture of cryptological research shapes both the public perceptions of cryptology, and cryptologist's perceptions of themselves and their work. Jean-Francois Blanchette will discuss how the culture of secrecy and military intelligence has deeply informed the models cryptologists use to analyze and design security artifacts. He will also discuss how, from a initial concern with communication secrecy, cryptological research has dramatically expanded its scope to encompass digital signatures and certificates, watermarking, e-cash, copy-protection, and other domains. These are all artifacts of much broader cultural and societal import that can be fit under the analytical category of "privacy." Cryptologists, as well as the rest of us, have to imagine and invent richer and more complex representations of what cryptological research is about and what its object is, and to explore other social and ethical paradigms than those offered by privacy and confidentiality. Jean-Francois Blanchette is a graduate student in the Department of Science, Technology and Society at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute. Trained as a cryptologist, he is now researching and writing about the practices, cultures, and ethics of cryptology. --- end forwarded message --- From rusik_98 at chat.ru Thu Nov 5 10:33:30 1998 From: rusik_98 at chat.ru (Rusik) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:33:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: internet Message-ID: <002701be08ea$ce6d6d80$2ba2a6c3@------> Hi. i need to crack my internet provider. he use windows 95 operation system. can you help me??? have you any crackers?? or you know where i can find them or any literature that can help me??? � BYE with my best wishes Rusik From blancw at cnw.com Wed Nov 4 21:48:25 1998 From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 13:48:25 +0800 Subject: Quick, Dear -- Beat Me In-Reply-To: <199811041840.NAA00424@mail1.panix.com> Message-ID: <000401be087d$55f97aa0$3b8195cf@blanc> >From Duncan Frissell: : Protection of "victims" won't work if the new number is : reported to the Big Three credit reporting bureaus. ................................................... I just went to the bank I do business with this week to open a new account. They wanted my social security number, (which they actually already have on record), and during a search on her handy database, the Customer Assistance clerk informed me that there was another person in Florida using the same number. I don't presently have a credit card, so I'm not worried about losing any cash at this time. The clerk gave me a form to send to ChexSystems for a consumer report and advice to notify the Social Security dept about it. I don't really want to discuss it with them. Think it would be to my benefit to just leave it alone? Probbly not. .. Blanc From blancw at cnw.com Wed Nov 4 21:48:26 1998 From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 13:48:26 +0800 Subject: Who Cares Message-ID: <000601be087d$5cda57e0$3b8195cf@blanc> When the politicians speak they always make statements which imply that they're speaking to, and being heard by, the whole nation. I just read a notice that less than 40% of eligible voters went to the polls. Since the Republicans are still in the majority, this means that less than one quarter of the voting population supports Clinton as President. And only slightly more than one quarter support Republicans. This would be meaningful to me, if I was making policy: what are all those other people doing? .. Blanc From mgering at ecosystems.net Wed Nov 4 21:48:49 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 13:48:49 +0800 Subject: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd) Message-ID: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B241@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com> > They're bound by economics and nothing else, not even the > government cats. Which is preferable IMHO, and I think most here agree (at least in this context). As soon as you give some entity (e.g. government) the power of force to regulate privacy, you create an entity that will abuse that force and abuse privacy. Plus such regulations are a false security blanket that diminishes demand for true privacy-creating tools (cryptography) -- not to mention you current regime turns around and attacks those tools. Being bound by the law of economics is generally a good thing. Matt From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Wed Nov 4 21:58:08 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 13:58:08 +0800 Subject: Who Cares (fwd) Message-ID: <199811050539.XAA10683@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: "Blanc" > Subject: Who Cares > Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 21:22:56 -0800 > When the politicians speak they always make statements which imply that they're > speaking to, and being heard by, the whole nation. I just read a notice that > less than 40% of eligible voters went to the polls. Since the Republicans are > still in the majority, this means that less than one quarter of the voting > population supports Clinton as President. And only slightly more than one > quarter support Republicans. This would be meaningful to me, if I was making > policy: what are all those other people doing? If you're talking about the people who didn't vote, they're trying to keep from going under. Probably working two jobs, keeping the kids in school and out of trouble, saving for college, paying the house morgage off, etc. Who's in office won't make a whit of difference to any of that. It's irrelevant. If you're talking about the politicians, they're laughing their ass off on the way to the bank to cash their tax-derived income. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From mgering at ecosystems.net Wed Nov 4 22:02:30 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 14:02:30 +0800 Subject: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd) Message-ID: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B242@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com> Robert Hettinga wrote: > A government is just another economic actor. A very large > economic actor with lots of guns and a monopoly on force, > but an economic actor nonetheless. No they are not, nor will they necessarily recognize the economic consequences of their actions before they entirely self-destruct or mutate only to do it again. History shows this. I generally use the economic/political distinction as made by Franz Oppenheimer, and furthered by Rothbard, Rand, etc. In that context they are a political actor, not an economic one. I purposefully ignored the prospect of corporations using coercive force to prevent privacy, it is rather improbable and still preferable to government coercion -- but note they do use coercive force today preventing privacy, but government is their instrument of force. Jim Choate wrote: > You need to look around, the government has NO monopoly on force. They have a *legal* monopoly on force (within a state). You do not generally consider the black market in determining monopolistic conditions, and in fact the existence of a black market in a segment generally points to a coercive monopoly in the public one. Matt From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Wed Nov 4 22:02:31 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 14:02:31 +0800 Subject: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd) Message-ID: <199811050545.XAA10791@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: Matthew James Gering > Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone > (fwd) > Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 21:20:34 -0800 > > They're bound by economics and nothing else, not even the > > government cats. > > Which is preferable IMHO, and I think most here agree (at least in this > context). As soon as you give some entity (e.g. government) the power of > force to regulate privacy, Woah there cowboy, just exactly how the hell do you jump from economics to privacy...talk about a strawman. > you create an entity that will abuse that force Abuse is the nature of man, not economics, privacy, government systems, etc. They're things, they have no desire and most definitely have no concept of privacy, economics, duty, etc. A a person or persons are abused it's by another person or persons. > Plus such regulations are a false security blanket that > diminishes demand for true privacy-creating tools (cryptography) -- not to > mention you current regime turns around and attacks those tools. It depends on the regulation and how it's applied. You simply can't equitably apply the statement that all regulation is bad because it's equaly clear that no regulation has its own pitfalls and abuses. > Being bound by the law of economics is generally a good thing. Yes, provided you have 'fair competition' which you can't in a free market. Provided all companies and their management operate within some sort of ethical guidelines, which they won't (and don't). And on and on. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From tcmay at got.net Wed Nov 4 22:04:53 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 14:04:53 +0800 Subject: TEMPEST laptops In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 8:06 AM -0800 11/4/98, Petro wrote: > What if, instead of trying to entirely prevent leakage, one did a >combination of "redirecting" and "masking" emissions. > > Keep in mind I am asking from a point of total ignorance. > > To break the question down further, a tempest attack is limited by >2 things, distance from the machine (IIRC, the "level" or "strength" of RF >emissions drops by the square of the distance correct?) and (possibly) the >presence of other sources of RF in about the same bands. > > Assuming that the signal level drops by the square of the distance, >then one is far more likely to get tempested from a van outside than an >airplane overhead correct? In that case, simply design one of Mr. May's >brazed copper boxes so that it is open something similar to: [diagram of semi-open box elided] Radio waves scatter...they don't just travel in pure line of sight. And even if they travelled only in line of sight, the reflections from inside the box and then into the room and then off surfaces.... Microwave ovens work by having the waves bounce around inside a box. Any significant hole or crack (up to roughly half the wavelength) would let the waves out. An open top box will not work. >The other question is how hard, given a _specific_ machine would it be to >create a "RF" jammer? Sort of an active defense versus the passive defense >of a Tempest sheild. build a device that measures the RF coming off a >machine, and rebroadcasts the opposite (i.e. the negation) of the signal? >This should, or could "flatten" the signal making it useless. Unlikely to prevent someone from figuring out what the real signal is. It's very difficult, generally, to hide a signal with another signal. Noise won't work, because noise can be filtered or autocorrelated out. A "spoof" signal can be corrected for. And we are talking about 100 dB sorts of suppression. Mere factors of a few with fake signals and noise are meaningless on this scale. --Tim May Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Wed Nov 4 22:18:21 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 14:18:21 +0800 Subject: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd) Message-ID: <199811050554.XAA10925@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: Matthew James Gering > Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone > (fwd) > Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 21:43:31 -0800 > Robert Hettinga wrote: > > A government is just another economic actor. A very large > > economic actor with lots of guns and a monopoly on force, > > but an economic actor nonetheless. > > No they are not, Yes, they are. Can you say 'taxes'? Can you say 'interstate commerce'? Can you say 'mint money'? Can you say 'federal reserve'? Can you say 'FDIC'? I thought so. > nor will they necessarily recognize the economic > consequences of their actions before they entirely self-destruct or mutate > only to do it again. History shows this. Really? What history? > I generally use the economic/political distinction as made by Franz > Oppenheimer, and furthered by Rothbard, Rand, etc. In that context they are > a political actor, not an economic one. False distinction. Politics is about control and power, and in human society that breaks down to force and money. > I purposefully ignored the prospect > of corporations using coercive force to prevent privacy, it is rather There you go again, confusing privacy with economics... > improbable and still preferable to government coercion -- but note they do > use coercive force today preventing privacy, but government is their > instrument of force. True, but that isn't a function of regulation per se only the particular type of regulation that we have implimented. You're arguing from a specific example and trying to extrapolate to a general rule and it don't fly. > Jim Choate wrote: > > You need to look around, the government has NO monopoly on force. > > They have a *legal* monopoly on force (within a state). No, they don't. It is perfectly legal for an individual to own a weapon. There is also a clear distinction between the local police, your state police, federal agents, military, etc. Lumping them all into one generic category is a disservice and is unrealistic (especialy since they are often in adversarial roles) if we really want to understand how our society works and where we can take it. > You do not generally > consider the black market in determining monopolistic conditions, and in > fact the existence of a black market in a segment generally points to a > coercive monopoly in the public one. No it doesn't. It points to the fact that individuals want to participate in some activity that some other party doesn't want to occur. It does not imply that the regulating party wants the potential income from those activities. Further more, even in a free-market there will exist black markets. It's always cheaper to buy stolen merchandise than legitimately purchased merchandise. The aspect of a free-market is that there is no consequence from such actions (unless you want to admit to allowing corporations to have their own hit squads). Again, a function of human psychology and not economics or political systems. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Wed Nov 4 22:33:28 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 14:33:28 +0800 Subject: TEMPEST laptops (fwd) Message-ID: <199811050611.AAA10989@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 21:45:29 -0800 > From: Tim May > Subject: Re: TEMPEST laptops > Radio waves scatter...they don't just travel in pure line of sight. And > even if they travelled only in line of sight, the reflections from inside > the box and then into the room and then off surfaces.... It depends on the frequency. Last time I checked a laser or a maser (both are radio waves strictly speaking) travel LOS. The scattering comes from beam divergence and incidental refractions and reflections from the molecules in the air and supported detritus. > Microwave ovens work by having the waves bounce around inside a box. Any > significant hole or crack (up to roughly half the wavelength) would let the > waves out. Depends on the size of the hole and location. In most microwave ovens there are definite dead-spots (corners and the exact center of the area are notorius). > An open top box will not work. If the microwaves (for example) are transmitted parallel to the open side it might very well work just fine. It's going to depend on a variety of factors that will preclude such a blanket statement from being valid. > Unlikely to prevent someone from figuring out what the real signal is. It's > very difficult, generally, to hide a signal with another signal. Noise > won't work, because noise can be filtered or autocorrelated out. A "spoof" > signal can be corrected for. For these to work there must be a time-correlated aspect to the signal that doesn't appear in the noise. If you mask the signal with the same sort of time correlated cover (eg phase shifting) it also might work. > And we are talking about 100 dB sorts of suppression. Mere factors of a few > with fake signals and noise are meaningless on this scale. The absolute magnitude isn't really important. Most of the signals that are emitted by a computer are not in the 100dB dynamic range (@2x=3db that's a signal range of 1:33) , more likely 40-50db if that. For a TTL (5V) signal it barely covers 3dB (LOW is <2.5v and a high is >=4.75). There simply is no way in hell a signal with a 3dB range is going to emit a rf signal that is 100dB. There are other logic families with wider dynamic ranges (eg CMOS w/ 18V Vcc can be nearly 18V or approx. about 12dB). ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jcutler at via.net Wed Nov 4 23:09:07 1998 From: jcutler at via.net (John Cutler) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 15:09:07 +0800 Subject: Cryptography Study Group - Palo Alto Message-ID: <199811050645.WAA10935@mustang.via.net> A Palo Alto-centered cryptography study group has been been formed. Our first project is to read Schneier's "Applied Cryptography." We meet a couple times each week to go over assigned reading and to play with ideas about cryptography. While the current participants all have a professional interest in the field, we are loosely organized. Readings are decided at the previous meeting giving us the flexibility to explore particular ideas in depth. Please contact me if you would like to join us. John Cutler jcutler at via.net From jamesd at echeque.com Wed Nov 4 23:47:18 1998 From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 15:47:18 +0800 Subject: Kong Re: Using a password as a private key. In-Reply-To: <199810291821.TAA03804@replay.com> Message-ID: <199811050725.XAA01933@proxy4.ba.best.com> -- At 0144 PM 11/1/98 -0800, Bill Stewart wrote > By the way, you don't want to hit the "view" button > after checking this one - you'll get > Run-Time Error 3021 - No current Record > and then Kong dies. Thanks I should release a fix on Monday the 9th. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG z/IoeOpshxPsz77gDorN0rrSb3hSKRfq8BJoUrHV 4MW1ljpG5hCWlOTNpmvtqe+qucj/X1317qNUJjGxf ----------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state. http://www.jim.com/jamesd/����� James A. Donald From tcmay at got.net Wed Nov 4 23:47:45 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 15:47:45 +0800 Subject: TEMPEST laptops (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199811050611.AAA10989@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: At 10:11 PM -0800 11/4/98, Jim Choate wrote: >Forwarded message: > >> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 21:45:29 -0800 >> From: Tim May >> Subject: Re: TEMPEST laptops > >> Radio waves scatter...they don't just travel in pure line of sight. And >> even if they travelled only in line of sight, the reflections from inside >> the box and then into the room and then off surfaces.... > >It depends on the frequency. Last time I checked a laser or a maser (both >are radio waves strictly speaking) travel LOS. The scattering comes from >beam divergence and incidental refractions and reflections from the >molecules in the air and supported detritus. Oh come on, let's not get into sophistry. And lasers are not considered to be radio frequency devices by anyone I know of...visible, IR, and UV lasers are all treated as _photon_ devices, "light." (Yes, yes, I know about particles vs. waves.) >If the microwaves (for example) are transmitted parallel to the open side it >might very well work just fine. It's going to depend on a variety of >factors that will preclude such a blanket statement from being valid. Nope, they'll still get out. The parallel mirror scenario. >Most of the signals that are emitted by a computer are not in the 100dB >dynamic range (@2x=3db that's a signal range of 1:33) , more likely 40-50db >if that. For a TTL (5V) signal it barely covers 3dB (LOW is <2.5v and a >high is >=4.75). There simply is no way in hell a signal with a 3dB range is >going to emit a rf signal that is 100dB. There are other logic families with >wider dynamic ranges (eg CMOS w/ 18V Vcc can be nearly 18V or approx. about >12dB). We're talking about signal strength of the emitted RF being knocked down 80 or 100 dB by the shielding. This is a common way of talking about the effectiveness of a Faraday cage. --Tim May Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From guy at panix.com Thu Nov 5 00:37:30 1998 From: guy at panix.com (Information Security) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 16:37:30 +0800 Subject: "Practical Joke" Message-ID: <199811050812.DAA02571@panix7.panix.com> >Pssst... > >When John Glenn returns from space, everyone dress in ape suits. > >Pass it on. From howree at cable.navy.mil Thu Nov 5 03:47:01 1998 From: howree at cable.navy.mil (HT1 HOWELL, REESE R-7 X7572 PRD 03/98) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 19:47:01 +0800 Subject: is it real? 2 In-Reply-To: <19981104113503.B4836@mail.roava.net> Message-ID: <199811051303.IAA00882@rps1.cable.navy.mil> > On Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 09:52:29PM -0800, zERoe wrote: >>for your info, please. >> >>Just in case....... >>......... basically.... don't install Windows 98 ..... since they have >>this "added" function..... =) --snip-- On or around Wed, 4 Nov 1998 entropi wrote: > While some of the "information" cited in this post is technically possible, as a > sys admin at a small start-up ISP, I can guarantee you that at least one ISP in the US is not kissing MS's ass in such a fashion. --snip-- I do not see where the cooperation of the ISP would be required, unless the user had used fictitious or obviously false names and company names (where required) for the registration of the programs in question. I for one, find the claims that M$ is doing this entirely believable, it is well within the capability of the program to perform this function without the user being aware. what I want to know is, is it just Win98 that does this, or does Win95 (any version) with Ie4 do this also??? Reeza! From rah at shipwright.com Thu Nov 5 05:21:32 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 21:21:32 +0800 Subject: Netscape inside scoop on "Smart Browsing" Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text X-Authentication-Warning: tarnhelm.blu.org: majordom set sender to owner-isig at blu.org using -f From: rivalcs at ma.ultranet.com To: Subject: Netscape inside scoop on "Smart Browsing" Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 06:00:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-isig at blu.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: isig at blu.org > * IS SMART BROWSING REALLY SO SMART? > (contributed by Mark Joseph Edwards, http://www.ntsecurity.net) > Many of you are aware of Netscape's new versions of its Navigator Web > browser. But do you also know that, starting with version 4.06, the > product's Smart Browsing feature can report to Netscape every Web page > you visit, including addresses to private sites on your internal > network? And are you aware that when you download a secure version of > Netscape's browser, the process places a cookie on your system that can > match your name and address to your Web surfing habits? Matt Curtin, > Gary Ellison, and Doug Monroe of Interhack published a report that > outlines the details. Netscape's What's Related? browser feature (a > technology provided by Alexa Internet) seems to be the cause of this > potential invasion of privacy. For those who don't know, the What's > Related? feature delivers a list of URLs associated with the Web page > you're visiting. The feature does this by automatically appending the > URL of the page you're visiting to the end of another URL and sending > it to a server at Netscape. For example, if you visit my Web site > (http://www.ntsecurity.net), the URL that Netscape receives is > http://www-rl4.netscape.com/wtgn?www.ntsecurity.net. And when Netscape > uses this URL to return a list of URLs for related sites, the URLs > aren't directly linked-they go through Netscape, telling Netscape which > site, if any, you chose from the list. The related URLs link to > http://info.netscape.com, which forwards you to the intended > destination. The link URLs look like this: > http://info.netscape.com/fwd/rl/http://www.ntshop.net:80/. > The report states that the group isn't accusing anyone of malice, and > clearly points out that even the best-intended systems can have > undesirable consequences. The real bone to pick here is the lack of > disclosure to potential users of the Smart Browsing technology, and > lack of a statement about the intended storage and use of private > browsing information collected from unsuspecting Netscape users. > According to the report, the feature enables by default, and no > documentation on the feature existed until the report became public. I > don't know about you, but if I bought a new Corvette from General > Motors (GM), and the Corvette reported to GM every place I went, I'd > expect GM to tell me up front. Otherwise, I'd feel deceived and taken > advantage of. But then again, maybe I'm being paranoid when I assume > that private actions should remain private. > http://www.interhack.net/pubs/whatsrelated/ > http://home.netscape.com/escapes/related/faq.html > Rick Desautels Sr. Systems Engineer Rival Computer Solutions rivalcs at ma.ultranet.com -- To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to majordomo at blu.org with the following text in the *body* (*not* the subject line) of the letter: unsubscribe isig --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Nov 5 06:04:19 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 22:04:19 +0800 Subject: TEMPEST laptops (fwd) Message-ID: <199811051325.HAA11660@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 23:19:17 -0800 > From: Tim May > Subject: Re: TEMPEST laptops (fwd) > >It depends on the frequency. Last time I checked a laser or a maser (both > >are radio waves strictly speaking) travel LOS. The scattering comes from > >beam divergence and incidental refractions and reflections from the > >molecules in the air and supported detritus. > > Oh come on, let's not get into sophistry. And lasers are not considered to > be radio frequency devices by anyone I know of...visible, IR, and UV lasers > are all treated as _photon_ devices, "light." (Yes, yes, I know about > particles vs. waves.) p-v-w is irrelevent. No Tim, it's photons as the intermediate vector boson for EM radiation. *ALL* physicist consider light to be hi-freq radio waves, or radio waves to be low-freq light. Hell, strictly speaking standing in the middle of a dark room waving a bar magnet back and forth is a very low freq. flash light. And you have a physics degree...... > Nope, they'll still get out. The parallel mirror scenario. Irrelevant. Last time I checked my microwave was 8 corner reflectors. That says that ultimately the ray goes back along the way it came with a shift in beam axis. How a microwave works is that up in one corner is a small grating. Behind that grating is a magnetron/klystron/etc. tube. That tube sends a beam out through that little grating. The axis of the tube is slightly mis-aligned ,otherwise the beam would come back into the tube and burn it out - also why you don't put metal things in there, it disrupts the reflection pattern. As a consequence of this design the corners and the exact center of the cavity don't get enough microwave radiation to do much of anything with. If you were to actualy map the microwaves you'd see beams bouncing back and forth and not continous coverage. There are actualy spots in every microwave oven cavity that get zero radiation. Anything put in there cooks as a function of the water in its neighbor heating up and transfered by the standard thermodynamic (which is also EM by the way) mechanism. Test it yourself. > We're talking about signal strength of the emitted RF being knocked down > 80 or 100 dB by the shielding. This is a common way of talking about the > effectiveness of a Faraday cage. True, the point I'm trying to make to you folks is that it *ISN'T* the absolute level of the signal that you are necessarily concerned with but rather the dynamic range in that signal. Simply knowing there's a 3mV signal out there won't do you a damn bit of good unless you have enough signal range to decode the contents. In actuality you could be emitting GW's of signal and if there was only say 1uV of signal range you'd never get anything off it. It just occured to me that one way to weaken TEMPEST is to mask the signals (not sure exactly how) that are emitted by encrypting (ie whitening) the signal when it's on exposed/radiating buss or connector. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Nov 5 06:08:53 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 22:08:53 +0800 Subject: Cryptography Study Group - Palo Alto (fwd) Message-ID: <199811051335.HAA11763@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 22:45:42 -0800 > From: John Cutler > Subject: Cryptography Study Group - Palo Alto > A Palo Alto-centered cryptography study group has been been formed. > Our first project is to read Schneier's "Applied Cryptography." We > meet a couple times each week to go over assigned reading and to play > with ideas about cryptography. While the current participants all > have a professional interest in the field, we are loosely organized. > Readings are decided at the previous meeting giving us the flexibility > to explore particular ideas in depth. > > Please contact me if you would like to join us. This is a GREAT! idea John. If you don't object, and since Austin Cypherpunks are dead dead dead, I believe I'll start something similar. I think the approach I'll use is a bit different in that I'm going to ask participants to read say the first chapter and get together over some period and actualy write a program (probably in Perl) that impliments the topic(s) under discussion. If it were to meet say every other week for two hours they should be able to go through a chapter every couple of months or so. Now I've got to find a place suitable....:) ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From agin at tiac.net Thu Nov 5 07:10:44 1998 From: agin at tiac.net (Warren E. Agin) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 23:10:44 +0800 Subject: DigiCash Inc. to File Reorganization, Seeks Partners to Driv In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199811051422.OAA10028@mail-out-4.tiac.net> Finally, some real meat for a bankruptcy/technology lawyer. I've been predicting for some time now that technology companies will start to use the bankruptcy process as the industry starts to shake out. The PR aside, these filings are generally prompted by one or more strata of large debt obligations or convertable securities, and the company's inability to continue to make required payments. What DigiCash will probably do is restructure its existing debt structures while seeking partners to obtain additional cash flows needed to continue operations. I'll be interested to see how it all works out. -Warren Agin Boston, Massachusetts > FYI... > > DigiCash Inc. to File Reorganization, Seeks Partners to Drive eCash Forward > > PALO ALTO, CALIF.--November 4, 1998 > > DigiCash Inc. has announced that it is entering into a Chapter 11 > reorganization to allow it to pursue strategic alternatives for its > electronic cash ("eCash" T) products and the associated intellectual assets > pioneered by DigiCash. > ___________________________________________________ Warren E. Agin Law Offices of Warren E. Agin 76 Canal Street, Boston MA 02114 (617)227-3201 (f)(617) 227-6365 www.agin.com ___________________________________________________ From declan at well.com Thu Nov 5 07:11:15 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 23:11:15 +0800 Subject: Y2K prompts many to prepare, 6-month delays now common Message-ID: <199811051431.GAA21966@smtp.well.com> >X-Sender: declan at mail.well.com >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 >Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 08:24:55 -0500 >To: politech at vorlon.mit.edu >From: Declan McCullagh >Subject: FC: Y2K prompts many to prepare, 6-month delays now common >Sender: owner-politech at vorlon.mit.edu >Reply-To: declan at well.com >X-Loop: politech at vorlon.mit.edu >X-URL: Politech is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/ > >[I think this is important news: Y2K fear has grown faster than many of us >expected it would. Companies tell me that unless you place your order by >early next year, you'll receive it after 1-1-00. --Declan] > > >http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/16035.html > > Companies selling bulk food, > generators, and solar energy systems > report backlogs of up to six months. The > reason: nationwide hand-wringing over > the millennium bug. By Declan McCullagh. > > > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >POLITECH -- the moderated mailing list of politics and technology >To subscribe: send a message to majordomo at vorlon.mit.edu with this text: >subscribe politech >More information is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/ >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Nov 5 07:32:11 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 23:32:11 +0800 Subject: How to test *your* microwave oven distribution pattern. Message-ID: <199811051447.IAA12209@einstein.ssz.com> Here's a simple way to test the bounce-pattern of your micro-wave oven: - Go to your local hobby store and buy some small balsa or pine sheeting, stringers (4x), and glue (non-water based). You'll also need several small open top containers (like a shot glass but smaller for best effect) and a marker. - Cut the stringers to the vertical height of your oven cavity. - Cut the sheeting into 1in. sq. pieces. - Mark the stringers evenly such that there is enough room to glue the sheeting between the stringers, forming a multi-leveled tower. - On each level place your container with a suitable amount of water (fill it almost to the brim). - Place the tower w/ it's containers in one of the corners. Mark a line around the base so you know where you been. - Start your microwave up (adjust time as needed, say start with 30s) and note the temperature of each container after the time. Note that putting your thermometer in there will cool it slightly and you'll also need to have the same number of runs and levels so so each level can be measured immediately after opening the door. If you have access to an optical pyrometer you could potentialy measure them all. - Once you've measured it here, move it over to be adjacent to the lines you drew above, outline the base again and repeat as needed. - Run your regression and your done, tadah. Some glasses will be hot, others won't. Trace the path of the beam out of the magnetron and you'll get a good idea of what your oven is really doing. Whether the cavity is stricly a corner reflector (ie corners are square) or is trapezoidal (slightly off square to help disperse the bounce pattern not the beam) is irrelevant to the actual holes in the pattern, they will be there. I'll mention but not go into the shadowing effect of objects placed in the cavity and the requirement for even cooking means that they have to be rotated for even dispersal of the cooking effect. Another indication that the beam doesn't disperse as widely or quickly as some claim. On another topic about holes and escaping microwaves, if the holes are the right size (which the screen in the glass in the front of your oven is) they will preferentialy absorb the microwave, if it's correctly grounded very little of the radiation will escape (as you can measure with a standard microwave oven leak detector). Now, let's talk about ways to build a laptop that will reduce the emissed radiation to a minimum. First, put all the computing guts into a small box that is well grounded (running on a battery will pretty much screw you here since it ain't grounded unless you drive a stake into the ground). Then make sure that any openings or gaps are in the front edge or on the bottem pointed down. There should be no breaks in the sides, rear, or top. Make sure the floppy, CD, hard drive are placed in the front of the laptop container adjacent to the metal box above and make sure any openings in them point out. The reason you want the openings in the front edge is that your body will make a very good sheild to that hi-energy rf that folks want to tap. The openings on the bottem will direct it to the ground where where they are absorbed (why they call it a ground-plane). Make sure that all cabling from the peripherals to the computing box are shielded (remember, ground the shield at one end only). The seam or hinge between the display and the case should be shielded with standard copper fingers. The cabling should also be well shielded. Make sure there is a grounded screen covering the front of the LCD (and for gods sake don't ever use a plasma display). The exterior case should be metal (why I love my Tadpole 3XP and IBM N40). All openings for batteries and such should be screwed down and not simply retained by a latch of some sort. The *ONLY* way to power the laptop should be by battery. There should be no provision to power it off the ac mains (this is going to be inconvenient since you'll need to carry extra batteries, an external charger for them, and the screw drivers and such to change them - no simply and easy pop-outs here). As to the display, the ideal display would be a dual-display HMD that was also sheilded. This is based on the assumption that if your data is so sensitive that you don't want people snarking it out of the air you probably don't want them reading it over your shoulder (up close or through a tele-photo). If you do decide to stake your laptop as refered above there are a few things to know.... - Make sure the stake is in suitable ground without lots of quartz and other similar peizo-electric materials. - The stake should extend at least 3ft. into the ground. - When the stake is driven in, the ground should be thoroughly wetted which usualy means quite a bit of water (30 gals or so should do it), if possible wet it over a 24 hour period prior to staking. - Make sure the stake and the cable leading to the laptop are copper (or silver if you're rich) - You don't want to be close to phone, power, and other sorts of underground utilities. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From apf2 at apf2.com Thu Nov 5 07:38:44 1998 From: apf2 at apf2.com (Albert P. Franco, II) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 23:38:44 +0800 Subject: Who Cares (fwd) Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981105143404.00885e50@apf2.com> > >Forwarded message: > >> From: "Blanc" >> policy: what are all those other people doing? > >From: Jim Choate >If you're talking about the people who didn't vote, they're trying to keep >from going under. Probably working two jobs, keeping the kids in school and >out of trouble, saving for college, paying the house morgage off, etc. Who's >in office won't make a whit of difference to any of that. It's irrelevant. > >If you're talking about the politicians, they're laughing their ass off on >the way to the bank to cash their tax-derived income. > > And then there are those of us who are denied our opportunity to vote because the damn absentee ballot always seems to arrive a week after the election!! Coincidence? Bad Luck? Or is it design? APF From agin at tiac.net Thu Nov 5 07:39:50 1998 From: agin at tiac.net (Warren E. Agin) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 23:39:50 +0800 Subject: DigiCash Inc. to File Reorganization, Seeks Partners to Driv In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199811051508.PAA16694@mail-out-4.tiac.net> For those who are really interested, the DigiCash Incorporated Chapter 11 case was filed in the Northern District of California. The case number is 98-58986. ___________________________________________________ Warren E. Agin Law Offices of Warren E. Agin 76 Canal Street, Boston MA 02114 (617)227-3201 (f)(617) 227-6365 www.agin.com ___________________________________________________ From agin at tiac.net Thu Nov 5 07:40:12 1998 From: agin at tiac.net (Warren E. Agin) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 23:40:12 +0800 Subject: (Fwd) Re: DigiCash Inc. to File Reorganization, Seeks Partners Message-ID: <199811051508.PAA16689@mail-out-4.tiac.net> For those who are really interested, the DigiCash Incorporated Chapter 11 case was filed in the Northern District of California. The case number is 98-58986. -Warren Agin ___________________________________________________ Warren E. Agin Law Offices of Warren E. Agin 76 Canal Street, Boston MA 02114 (617)227-3201 (f)(617) 227-6365 www.agin.com ___________________________________________________ From jya at pipeline.com Thu Nov 5 07:40:23 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 23:40:23 +0800 Subject: US Cyberthreat Policy Message-ID: <199811051449.JAA12327@camel8.mindspring.com> The USIA E-journal, Foreign Policy Agenda, for November is titled "Cyberthreat: Protecting US Information Networks." It has articles by the head of NSA, DoD's Hamre, CIAO's Hunker, Y2K Office's Koskinen, Senator Kyl, and reps from Microsoft, IBM and others: http://www.usia.gov/journals/itps/1198/ijpe/toc.htm Martin Libicki of RAND criticizes the administration's crypto policy for hindering widespread information protection: http://jya.com/ml110498.htm From bartvmoorsel at kivi.nl Thu Nov 5 08:09:19 1998 From: bartvmoorsel at kivi.nl (Bart van Moorsel) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:09:19 +0800 Subject: How to save a real audio stream? Message-ID: <3641C1C5.9AF5A93C@kivi.nl> Can anybody explain how to save a real audio stream? I think I saw this question before, sorry to ask for a replay. From petro at playboy.com Thu Nov 5 09:30:16 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 01:30:16 +0800 Subject: Quick, Dear -- Beat Me In-Reply-To: <199811041840.NAA00424@mail1.panix.com> Message-ID: At 12:08 AM -0500 11/5/98, Blanc wrote: >From Duncan Frissell: > >: Protection of "victims" won't work if the new number is >: reported to the Big Three credit reporting bureaus. >................................................... > >I just went to the bank I do business with this week to open a new account. >They wanted my social security number, (which they actually already have on >record), and during a search on her handy database, the Customer Assistance >clerk informed me that there was another person in Florida using the same >number. > >I don't presently have a credit card, so I'm not worried about losing any cash >at this time. The clerk gave me a form to send to ChexSystems for a >consumer >report and advice to notify the Social Security dept about it. I don't >really >want to discuss it with them. Think it would be to my benefit to just >leave it >alone? Probbly not. If they are using your name as well, they could be damaging your credit rating. -- "To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather na�ve, and certainly unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust" http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro at playboy.com From petro at playboy.com Thu Nov 5 09:33:06 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 01:33:06 +0800 Subject: Who Cares In-Reply-To: <000601be087d$5cda57e0$3b8195cf@blanc> Message-ID: At 12:22 AM -0500 11/5/98, Blanc wrote: > When the politicians speak they always make statements which imply that >they're >speaking to, and being heard by, the whole nation. I just read a notice >that >less than 40% of eligible voters went to the polls. Since the >Republicans are >still in the majority, this means that less than one quarter of the voting >population supports Clinton as President. And only slightly more than one >quarter support Republicans. This would be meaningful to me, if I was making >policy: what are all those other people doing? The fact that it is meaningful to you means you will never (as long as it is meaningful to you) get anywhere as a politician, as you still actively beleive that a politican is there to do the will of the people. This can be demonstrated to be a false assumption. -- "To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather na�ve, and certainly unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust" http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro at playboy.com From petro at playboy.com Thu Nov 5 09:33:39 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 01:33:39 +0800 Subject: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone(fwd) In-Reply-To: <199811042301.RAA09484@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: At 6:01 PM -0500 11/4/98, Jim Choate wrote: >Forwarded message: > >> From: Matthew James Gering >> Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone >> Alternative >> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 14:29:47 -0800 > >> Petro wrote: >> > However, Privacy + Freedom == Anarchy, or close enough to be >> > indistinguishable. > >This is silly. And you're a fool, but I can be serious. Try reading what I said, and (I know this is difficult for you) THINK ABOUT IT. Anarchy is usually defined as the absense of government. What exactly makes up a "government", what are it's defining characteristics? Simply a device for reallocating wealth?--Insufficient, there are lots of mechanisms for that. A body that lays down standards and rules of conduct?--Sounds like a church or industry consortium to me. A heirarchical (sp?) structure that uses fear, propaganda and force to reallocate wealth, enforce standards and rules of conduct, and other things at whim (for varying values of "whim", from the "whim" of a dictator, to the "whim" of the "body politic"). Now, THAT is a government. Yes, some of what it enforces is probably a good idea (i.e. everyone driving on the same side of the road, &etc) some if it is kinda silly (don't smoke dope, or you're going to jail (Here, have a beer)), and some of it is downright stupid and shortsighted (encryption policy, not drinking beer out of a bucket on the sidewalk). Anarchy is not having to be effected by that, being "free" to follow what one thinks is right. How one gets to that state is not really relevent. My statement above simply lays out the position having Privacy (for large enough values of privacy to be meaningful) and Freedom (for large enough values of Freedom to be meaningful) one is effectively in an anarchistic state. That is what "close enough to be meaningful" meant. Privacy is (at least it's my understanding) the ability to hide or mask information in such a way that only people you wish to have access to it do. There are varying degrees of Privacy, from "Well, at least they don't analyize what's in my feeces, even if they do watch me take it" to being able to completely hide any information at all from anyone. Freedom is the ability to make choices, and exercise those choices. Just like privacy, there are varying degrees of freedom, from the convict who can chose wheter he/she wants to eat that slop or go hungry, to the president of the US who can (apparently) bomb people with impunity, lie under oath & etc. When the amount of freedom and privacy is high enough, it is indistinguishable from anarchy. No one, wheter part of some heirarchial structure or not can force you to do certain things, or to live a certain way, or to pay a given percentage of your time (labor, money, life) to them for "services" of dubious value. Now, I realize that if I were just speaking to Jim, this would be a waste of time, because he consistently fails to read entire paragraphs, misunderstands simple terms, and doesn't always manage to connect dependent clauses, but there may be some out there who could provide a reasonable critique of what I am saying, and may even be able to give me some food for thought. >> for privacy. In fact there is good claim that privacy will not exist in >> anarchy except by those that decide to use the tools and methods to achieve Privacy doesn't exist anywhere unless one chooses to use the tools and methods to acheive it. If I don't want privacy, or if it isn't of value to me, I shouldn't have to be bound by it. If I do want it, I should be able take steps (analagous to putting up curtains on a bay-window) to secure it. Governments cannot provide large values of privacy, it's not how they work. They can limit exposure, but that is more of a false privacy than real privacy. -- "To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather na�ve, and certainly unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust" http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro at playboy.com From rah at shipwright.com Thu Nov 5 09:33:45 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 01:33:45 +0800 Subject: IP: Text: Gore Announces New SS# Effort for Victims of Domestic Violence Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Delivered-To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com X-Sender: believer at telepath.com Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 09:31:32 -0600 To: believer at telepath.com From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Text: Gore Announces New SS# Effort for Victims of Domestic Violence Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Precedence: list Reply-To: believer at telepath.com Source: USIA http://www.usia.gov/current/news/latest/98110403.wlt.html?/products/washfile /newsitem.shtml 04 November 1998 TEXT: GORE ANNOUNCES EFFORT FOR VICTIMS OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE (SS numbers to be changed to help victims escape abusers) (630) Washington -- Vice President Al Gore announced November 4 a new policy to allow victims of domestic violence to change their Social Security number. "Today, our message to the victims of these hateful crimes is this: we will offer you the protection you need to regain your safety and rebuild your life. You have suffered enough without having to fight for the protections you need to start a new life for yourself and your children," Gore said, according to a press release from his office. The vice president also mentioned a new booklet, "Protecting Victims of Domestic Violence: A Law Enforcement Officer's Guide to Enforcing Orders of Protection Nationwide," that outlines the meaning of the Violence Against Women Act's requirement to give full faith and credit orders of protection for victims of domestic violence. Following is the text of the release: (Begin text) November 4, 1998 THE WHITE HOUSE Office of the Vice President For Immediate Release Wednesday, November 4, 1998 VICE PRESIDENT GORE ANNOUNCES NEW POLICY TO ALLOW VICTIMS OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE TO CHANGE THEIR SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER Washington, DC -- Vice President Gore announced today a new effort to help victims of domestic violence escape their abusers -- a federal policy that will make it easier for victims to change their social security numbers. "Today, our message to the victims of these hateful crimes is this: we will offer you the protection you need to regain your safety and rebuild your life," Vice President Gore said. "You have suffered enough without having to fight for the protections you need to start a new life for yourself and your children." For the first time, victims of domestic violence will be able to get a new Social Security number simply by providing written affirmation of their domestic abuse from a third party, such as a local shelter, treating physician, or law enforcement official. The Social Security Administration's (SSA) employees in field offices nationwide will work closely with local domestic violence shelters, the police, the courts, treating physicians, medical facilities, and psychologists to help victims of domestic violence get the documentation necessary to secure a new Social Security number. Previously, the SSA required victims to provide proof that their abuser had misused their Social Security number. For victims of domestic violence, providing this kind of proof was extremely difficult -- only victims who were severely abused or who were in danger of losing their lives were allowed to change their Social Security number. To improve its services to victims of domestic violence, the SSA will post on its web site the steps a victim needs to take to change their Social Security number and provide important referral information. The Vice President also announced a Presidential directive for the Office of Personnel Management to prepare a resource guide that will: (1) assist victims of domestic violence by providing up-to-date information about available resources and outline strategies to ensure safety; and (2) help those who know anyone who is being abused to prevent and respond to the situation. This guide will list private as well as public resources such as counseling, law enforcement, federal workplace leave policies, and substance abuse programs. In addition, he highlighted a new booklet, "Protecting Victims of Domestic Violence: A Law Enforcement Officer's Guide to Enforcing Orders of Protection Nationwide," that outlines the meaning of the Violence Against Women Act's requirement to give full faith and credit orders of protection for victims of domestic violence. This booklet was written by the International Association of Chiefs of Police with a grant from the Justice Department. It will be disseminated to law enforcement officers nationwide to teach them how to enforce protection orders. (End text) ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From petro at playboy.com Thu Nov 5 09:40:44 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 01:40:44 +0800 Subject: Who Cares (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199811050539.XAA10683@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: At 12:39 AM -0500 11/5/98, Jim Choate wrote: >If you're talking about the people who didn't vote, they're trying to keep >from going under. Probably working two jobs, keeping the kids in school and >out of trouble, saving for college, paying the house morgage off, etc. Who's >in office won't make a whit of difference to any of that. It's irrelevant. That's crap. While I won't deny that some of the people who don't vote are in the position you claim they are, their not voting has nothing to do with their economic position, it has to do with the facts that: 1) This is a mid-term election. Since it isn't a presidential election, fewer really care to research the issues (which are fewer). 2) We are currently in decent economic times, and as Terry Pratchet noted on Men At Arms, (paraphrasing here) Most people don't really care about democrazy, Equal Rights, or any of that, they just want tomorrow to be exactly like today. So, as long as things are Fair to good (or great), there won't be a lot of people intersted in voting, unless things look like they are going to make a radical change, which leads us to the 3 big reason: 3) As Jimmy notes, there usually isn't much of a difference between one canidate and the other (outside of the Natural Law types), and those canidates who _are_ different (Libertarians, Socialists &etc. ("reform" types don't count, they really are for making tomorrow just like yesterday & today, only they ADMIT it for the most part)) either don't get enough votes to challenge the status quo, or if there is an issue that will challenge the status quo, the number of voters tends to increase (to varying degrees). -- "To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather na�ve, and certainly unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust" http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro at playboy.com From rah at shipwright.com Thu Nov 5 10:02:19 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 02:02:19 +0800 Subject: Microsoft Statement Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text X-Authentication-Warning: www.ispo.cec.be: majordom set sender to owner-e-commerc at www.ispo.cec.be using -f Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 09:16:56 -0500 From: Freddie Dawkins Subject: Microsoft Statement To: CEC E-commerce list MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-e-commerc at www.ispo.cec.be Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Freddie Dawkins All here - I thought you might like to see this. It was published at the ICX London conference on October 19. Rgds Freddie Dawkins ICX - Building Trust in E-commerce ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Statement of Microsoft on UK Department of Trade and Industry Proposals for Encryption on Digital Signatures October 1998 Microsoft welcomes this opportunity to respond to recent DTI proposals on encryption and digital signatures. As a leading developer of business software applications, on-line tools and operating systems, Microsoft strongly supports the growth of electronic commerce in Europe. 1. UK legislation should eliminate all key escrow and key recovery requirements. The UK should not make the use of encryption subject to mandatory key escrow. The DTI's Secure Electronic Commerce Statement of April 1998 contemplates authorising law enforcement to obtain access to private encryption keys on request. This could effectively require users or encryption service providers to "escrow" their private keys, which would depart from the Statement's rejection of mandatory key escrow and make the use of encryption more costly and burdensome. Many users would also view the obligation to store copies of their private keys as compromising the security of their on-line messages, thus deterring them from fully exploiting electronic commerce. Mandatory key escrow does not serve any legitimate law enforcement goals. Key escrow serves no legitimate law enforcement goals because criminals and terrorists are unlikely to store their private keys or provide them to police on request. Law enforcement's needs in this area could be fully met by requiring users to produce the plain text of any message to which police require access. 2. The proposed legislation should extend legal recognition to all digital signatures. Legal recognition should extend to all electronic signatures, not just those issued by licensed certification authorities (CAs). The secure Electronic Commerce Statement would limit legal recognition to certificates issued by licensed CAs. Because virtually all users will want to rely on the legal validity of their electronic signatures, this would effectively require the use of licensed CAs. Such a rule would impose unnecessary costs on electronic commerce and would place UK law in conflict with the proposed EU Electronic Signatures Directive, which extends legal recognition to both licensed and unlicensed electronic signatures. UK law should extend legal recognition to closed-system and limited-use certificates and affirm parties' freedom of contract. Electronic signatures are used in a variety of closed systems and for a broad range of specific uses, such as on-line banking and credit card systems. Because closed-system and limited-use certificates will play a crucial role in the development of on-line applications, the law should expressly extend legal recognition to such certificates. UK legislation should also treat electronic and paper transactions the same in terms of freedom of contract, so that private parties have the same flexibility to structure their electronic transactions as they do for traditional forms of commerce. The proposed legislation should not require licensed CAs to escrow encryption keys. Many users of electronic signatures will refuse to allow their private encryption keys to be escrowed, and will therefore refuse to use licensed CAs if they must also hand over their private encryption keys. Such a result would undermine the use of electronic signatures and would threaten the development of electronic commerce in the UK. Thus, UK law should allow licensed CAs to provide encryption services without maintaining a key escrow or key recovery system. 3. DTI should abandon plans to extend existing export controls to "intangible" transfers. Applying existing export controls to intangible transfers of encryption is unworkable and impractical. In its recent white paper on Strategic Export Controls (July 1998), DTI announced plans to extend existing export controls to intangible transfers. However, strong encryption is widely available on the Internet from servers located outside the UK. Thus, the proposed restrictions would not prevent criminals from using strong encryption, but would impose added costs and burdens on lawful manufacturers and distributors of encryption products. The proposed export controls will harm UK firms. UK businesses already face a competitive disadvantage to foreign competitors due to restrictions on exporting encryption in tangible form. To extend this to intangible transfers will make it even more difficult for UK firms to compete globally. The UK should loosen, rather than tighten, existing export controls on encryption. Export restrictions on encryption make it much more expensive for UK firms to compete globally, without having any real impact on crime. Rather than act unilaterally on this issue, the UK should adhere to the European-wide standards set forth in the EU Regulation on Dual-Use Goods. /ends # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # To leave the list, send email to Majordomo at www.ispo.cec.be saying unsubscribe E-commerc your at email.address as the first line of your message (*not* as the subject) # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From mmotyka at lsil.com Thu Nov 5 10:03:17 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 02:03:17 +0800 Subject: TEMPEST laptops (fwd) Message-ID: <3641E026.918@lsil.com> Jim, *** True, the point I'm trying to make to you folks is that it *ISN'T* the absolute level of the signal that you are necessarily concerned with but rather the dynamic range in that signal. Simply knowing there's a 3mV signal out there won't do you a damn bit of good unless you have enough signal range to decode the contents. In actuality you could be emitting GW's of signal and if there was only say 1uV of signal range you'd never get anything off it. *** The distinction you are trying to express is that not all signals have equal information content and that it is the levels of the high-content ones that matter. Fine, but shielding is indiscriminate so shield away. And run your Tesla coil and some Ramones music to increase the ambient noise while you're doing sensitive computing. BTW - Aren't most receivers sensitive to RF field strengths in the 1 uV/m range? With cryogenically cooled front ends the nV/m range is probably usable. Look for MIB carrying Dewars in your neighborhood! How cold do Peltier junctions get? Probably good enough for a sidewinder or a low-noise rcvr. Mike Gabba-gabba hey! 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From rah at shipwright.com Thu Nov 5 10:16:57 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 02:16:57 +0800 Subject: Digicash in serious trouble Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text X-Sender: stalder at fis.fis.utoronto.ca Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:03:10 -0500 To: micropay at ai.mit.edu From: Felix Stalder Subject: Digicash in serious trouble Sender: owner-micropay at ai.mit.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: micropay at ai.mit.edu [bad news] http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,28360,00.html By Tim Clark Staff Writer, CNET News.com November 4, 1998, 6:05 p.m. PT Electronic-cash pioneer DigiCash said today it's filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection after shrinking its payroll to about six people from nearly 50 in February. The company, which has been running off a bridge loan from its venture capital investors since June, is seeking new investors from established financial institutions or a buyer for its software technology. The company's operations in the Netherlands, where it was founded, were liquidated in September. "To really launch and brand something like this in the Internet space is likely to take a fair amount more capital," said Scott Loftesness, DigiCash's interim CEO since August. "It's more appropriate for strategic investors, corporate players or banks themselves as a consortium model." Electronic-cash schemes have found difficult sledding recently. First Virtual Holdings, which had a form of e-cash, exited the business in July. CyberCash's CyberCoin offering hasn't really caught on. Digital Equipment, now part of Compaq Computer is testing its Millicent electronic cash, and IBM is in early trials for a product called Minipay. Under bankruptcy laws, DigiCash's Chapter 11 filing allows the company to continue operations, while keeping its creditors at bay as the company reorganizes. Most of DigiCash's $4 million in debt is owed to its initial venture capital financiers who extended the bridge loan, August Capital, Applied Technology, and Dutch investment firm Gilde Investment. DigiCash's eCash allows consumers to make anonymous payments of any amount--and anonymity differentiates eCash against other e-cash schemes. DigiCash's intellectual property assets include patents, protocols, and software systems that also could be used for applications, like online electronic voting or private scrip issued by a particular retailer. DigiCash suffered a setback in September when the only U.S. bank offering its scheme, Mark Twain Bank, dropped the offering. But a number of major banks in Europe and Australia offer or are testing DigiCash's electronic cash. Also in September, DigiCash closed its Dutch operations and liquidated its assets there. Loftesness said DigiCash has a list of 35-40 potential partners, and he has been talking to players like IBM for months. He expects to resolve DigiCash's status in the next five months. "Everybody feels anonymous e-cash is inevitable, but the existing situation was not going to get there from here," said Loftesness, who is frustrated by potential partners telling him, "This is absolutely strategic, but unfortunately it's not urgent." The company was founded by David Chaum and was well-known in the Internet's earliest days. MIT Media Labs' Nicholas Negroponte is a director of DigiCash. --- # distributed via nettime-l : no commercial use without permission # is a closed moderated mailinglist for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: majordomo at desk.nl and "info nettime-l" in the msg body # URL: http://www.desk.nl/~nettime/ contact: nettime-owner at desk.nl -----|||||---||||----|||||--------||||---- Les faits sont faits. http://www.fis.utoronto.ca/~stalder --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From petro at playboy.com Thu Nov 5 10:37:36 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 02:37:36 +0800 Subject: IP: Text: Gore Announces New SS# Effort for Victims ofDomestic Violence In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 11:40 AM -0500 11/5/98, Robert Hettinga wrote: >"Today, our message to the victims of these hateful crimes is this: we >will offer you the protection you need to regain your safety and >rebuild your life. You have suffered enough without having to fight >for the protections you need to start a new life for yourself and your >children," Gore said, according to a press release from his office. Give them a Military Surplus .45 and teach them to shoot straight. Much cheaper in the long run as it will either eliminate the abuse up front, or both the abuse and the abuser. >The vice president also mentioned a new booklet, "Protecting Victims >of Domestic Violence: A Law Enforcement Officer's Guide to Enforcing >Orders of Protection Nationwide," that outlines the meaning of the >Violence Against Women Act's requirement to give full faith and credit >orders of protection for victims of domestic violence. Isn't there some law that prohibits discrimination because of gender? >For the first time, victims of domestic violence will be able to get a >new Social Security number simply by providing written affirmation of >their domestic abuse from a third party, such as a local shelter, >treating physician, or law enforcement official. This shouldn't be too tough. >The Social Security Administration's (SSA) employees in field offices >nationwide will work closely with local domestic violence shelters, >the police, the courts, treating physicians, medical facilities, and >psychologists to help victims of domestic violence get the >documentation necessary to secure a new Social Security number. Who wants to bet that soon they will talk about reducing or denying benefits for "abusers". -- "To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather na�ve, and certainly unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust" http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro at playboy.com From petro at playboy.com Thu Nov 5 10:43:03 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 02:43:03 +0800 Subject: TEMPEST laptops (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199811050611.AAA10989@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: At 1:11 AM -0500 11/5/98, Jim Choate wrote: >Forwarded message: >> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 21:45:29 -0800 >> From: Tim May >> Subject: Re: TEMPEST laptops > >> Radio waves scatter...they don't just travel in pure line of sight. And >> even if they travelled only in line of sight, the reflections from inside >> the box and then into the room and then off surfaces.... > >It depends on the frequency. Last time I checked a laser or a maser (both >are radio waves strictly speaking) travel LOS. The scattering comes from >beam divergence and incidental refractions and reflections from the >molecules in the air and supported detritus. And both Lasers and Masers scatter under certain conditions. If you can see the laser, it is scattering a bit of [energy light photons] That is what Mr. May is talking about. I was under the (apparently false) impression that things like animal bodies, and ordinary building materials (like wood, Lathe & plaster/drywall) wouldn't stop or significantly bounce the beams back the way you didn't want them to go. I was thinking more of controling the direction of the RF, rather than trying to completely supress it. It doesn't appear that will work. >> Microwave ovens work by having the waves bounce around inside a box. Any >> significant hole or crack (up to roughly half the wavelength) would let the >> waves out. > >Depends on the size of the hole and location. In most microwave ovens there >are definite dead-spots (corners and the exact center of the area are >notorius). We're not cooking Hotdogs here, and we aren't using (for the most part) microwaves. Yes, you can heat a hotdog on a PII, but that is more from heat radiation than RF. Microwave ovens also leak RF. -- "To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather na�ve, and certainly unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust" http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro at playboy.com From bill.stewart at pobox.com Thu Nov 5 12:00:25 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 04:00:25 +0800 Subject: new 448 bit key by Indian firm In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981104234056.008b6880@idiom.com> At 03:43 AM 11/3/98 +0530, Narayan Raghu wrote: > Indian firm unveils 448-bit encryption 448 bits sounds a lot like MD5-based encryption - perhaps Luby-Rackoff or MDC? Or a homegrown system, doing successive MD5s or something? MD5 is no longer the safest hash these days.... Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From bill.stewart at pobox.com Thu Nov 5 12:02:11 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 04:02:11 +0800 Subject: NYC Smartcards Die In-Reply-To: <199811041618.LAA31005@camel7.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981104234624.008b6880@idiom.com> At 11:09 AM 11/4/98 -0500, John Young wrote: >Chase, Visa and Mastercard have closed down their >smartcard trial on the Upper West Side of Manhattan, >the NYT reports today. >It also says Mondex has closed its Swindon trial. I don't know about Swindon's Mondex trial, but Mondex in San Francisco was dumbly too annoying to use. Wells Fargo was promoting it, Starbucks accepted it, and both were around the corner from my office. The _catch_ was that you couldn't just walk into a bank, plunk down some dead presidents, and get a Mondex card. Instead, you could walk into the bank, get a brochure, use a phone there to call an 800 number, and they'll mail it to you or something awkward like that. It may be a mostly-bearer system instead of book entry, but they're handling it like book-entry. Lose, lose. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From mmotyka at lsil.com Thu Nov 5 12:10:47 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 04:10:47 +0800 Subject: How to test *your* microwave oven distribution pattern. Message-ID: <3641FFB1.75BB@lsil.com> Jim, you said... ***** If you do decide to stake your laptop as refered above there are a few things to know.... - Make sure the stake is in suitable ground without lots of quartz and other similar peizo-electric materials. - The stake should extend at least 3ft. into the ground. - When the stake is driven in, the ground should be thoroughly wetted which usualy means quite a bit of water (30 gals or so should do it), if possible wet it over a 24 hour period prior to staking. - Make sure the stake and the cable leading to the laptop are copper (or silver if you're rich) - You don't want to be close to phone, power, and other sorts of underground utilities. **** Please explain to me why it matters that the box be grounded! Radiated energy from chips and traces is independent of your mongo ground strap to the mother ship. All the strap does is alter the DC potential. Shield your box well but design out the leg irons and the geological requirements. Mike From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Nov 5 12:12:20 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 04:12:20 +0800 Subject: TEMPEST laptops (fwd) Message-ID: <199811051947.NAA13767@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 09:28:06 -0800 > From: Michael Motyka > Subject: Re: TEMPEST laptops (fwd) > The distinction you are trying to express is that not all signals have > equal information content and that it is the levels of the high-content > ones that matter. Nope. What I am saying is the absolute magnitude of the carrier wave is irrelevant, it's the modulation that matters and that modulation if small and it's riding on a big carrier is hard to get at because you swamp your front-ends because of dynamic range. > Fine, but shielding is indiscriminate so shield away. Shielding will attenuate all parts of the signal so it is a Good Thing (TM). > And run your Tesla coil and some Ramones music to increase the ambient > noise while you're doing sensitive computing. Gabba gabba hey hey...thought I don't run my Tesla Coil when my computers are on, they object to the 4ft sparks. > Look for MIB carrying Dewars in your neighborhood! > How cold do Peltier junctions get? > Probably good enough for a sidewinder or a low-noise rcvr. Peltier devices are for thermal transport by binding the thermal photons and transporting them to a different environ where they may be emitted. Hence the original environ is cooled. You're talking about Josephson Junctions I suspect and they're useless for signal detection, they're a switch. SQUIDS are what are used for truly small level signals. The KKK took my baby away.... ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz Thu Nov 5 12:45:47 1998 From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 04:45:47 +0800 Subject: TriSnakeoil questions Message-ID: <91029670728883@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz> I wrote: >I'm currently sitting in a booth at a Tandem user show directly opposite the >Atalla one. If there's anything in particular which someone wants to ask >them, let me know and I'll see how knowledgeable their salesdroids are. I had a talk to them, it turns out that of the two different Atalla's, Atalla the company and John Atalla the person, the snake oil is being pushed by Atalla the person rather than Atalla the company. The Atalla people knew as little about it as everyone else, and although they were careful with their replies I got the impression that they were about as impressed with TriStrata as others on this list are. OTOH perhaps they were just depressed that I asked them about TriStrata instead of their RSA/3DES card :-). [I have half a dozen brochures for this one, in every single brochure it's called something different (SET accelerator, SSL accelerator, e-commerce accelerator, accelerator) but once you get past the first few application-specific paragraphs the rest is identical. Covers all the bases I guess. Their white paper on why hardware crypto is better than software crypto is a hoot too - "Hardware is cheaper" (obviously some new definition of the word with which I wasn't previously familiar), "software crypto can't be shared" (as opposed to hardware, which can be shared with a simple copy command), etc. Their products look pretty good, but everyone I talked to complained about the price and was ready to jump on software alternatives] Peter. From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Nov 5 12:50:37 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 04:50:37 +0800 Subject: How to test *your* microwave oven distribution pattern. (fwd) Message-ID: <199811052002.OAA13832@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 11:42:41 -0800 > From: Michael Motyka > Subject: Re: How to test *your* microwave oven distribution pattern. > Please explain to me why it matters that the box be grounded! Electricity runs from a high-potential point to ground. If it isn't grounded it radiates away into space where it can be detected. If the Faraday Cage isn't grounded it simply acts as a parasitic oscillator and re-emits the signal from inside, though at a lower amplitude. Remember, charge rests on the *OUTSIDE* of a object so that any charge picked up internaly gets passed to the outside surface. Which raises another point. Since sharp corners radiate better because they hold larger charges one should probably avoid sharp angles or corners. Though you might be able to use that to advantage by having a caged needle that radiates the majority away into the grounded cage. Probably the ideal 'laptop' would be a metal ball with a grounding wire and a single large mil-spec connector that drives a HMD. Something like the Rock City by Archistrat but round instead of cubical. > Radiated energy from chips and traces is independent of your mongo > ground strap to the mother ship. Not if the ground plane on the pcb is built right. The amount of free-space radiation can be minimized because the capacitive coupling between the emitting source and the local ground is less than the capacitive coupling to Earth through the atmosphere. Since the signal path impedence to the local ground plain is lower it will carry, proportionaly, the majority of the signal. > All the strap does is alter the DC > potential. Shield your box well but design out the leg irons and the > geological requirements. Actualy it is much more complex than that, it effects the AC signal path impedence as well - which is exactly what one wants. As I said above, don't ground the box and it simply acts as a secondary emitter. This is analogous to those parasitic oscillators they put in books and such that ring an alarm if you walk between the poles at the store. I'm at work right now so I can't get too specific but there is a book that I have at home that is called 'Digital Black Magic' (I believe). It covers a lot of these sorts of issues. When I'm home later I'll post a pointer to the correct title, author, and ISBN. The 1st rule of electrons: They always take the shortest path to ground. Corollary: If they can't get to ground they radiate their excess energy away as photons. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From honig at sprynet.com Thu Nov 5 13:42:47 1998 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 05:42:47 +0800 Subject: How to test *your* microwave oven distribution pattern. In-Reply-To: <199811051447.IAA12209@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981105130909.007f1730@m7.sprynet.com> At 08:47 AM 11/5/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: >Here's a simple way to test the bounce-pattern of your micro-wave oven: Simpler: stick a neon-bulb with the leads twisted off into the oven. Watch the glow vary. Put a cup of water in there since you're not supposed to run empty. You of course know about CDs as uwave detectors :-) > - Make sure the stake is in suitable ground without lots of quartz > and other similar peizo-electric materials. Not piezo (though quartz is), but non conductive. You have to tap the groundwater table. Sand, granite don't conduct. From melliott at ncsa.uiuc.edu Thu Nov 5 13:48:25 1998 From: melliott at ncsa.uiuc.edu (Matt Elliott) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 05:48:25 +0800 Subject: How to test *your* microwave oven distribution pattern. In-Reply-To: <3641FFB1.75BB@lsil.com> Message-ID: > >Please explain to me why it matters that the box be grounded! > >Radiated energy from chips and traces is independent of your mongo >ground strap to the mother ship. All the strap does is alter the DC >potential. Shield your box well but design out the leg irons and the >geological requirements. > > Please explain how you can sheild something without grounding it. Doesn't the energy need some place to go? Matt From nobody at replay.com Thu Nov 5 13:49:49 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 05:49:49 +0800 Subject: TEMPEST laptops Message-ID: <199811052109.WAA21423@replay.com> At 09:45 PM 11/4/98 -0800, Tim May wrote: >>The other question is how hard, given a _specific_ machine would it be to >>create a "RF" jammer? Sort of an active defense versus the passive defense >>of a Tempest sheild. build a device that measures the RF coming off a Well dang Tim, if you're gonna work inside a Faraday cage you may as well run a Tesla coil outside it... --Lace Aliens Slide on my Rugs From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Nov 5 13:52:46 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 05:52:46 +0800 Subject: TEMPEST laptops (fwd) Message-ID: <199811052117.PAA14255@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 11:56:20 -0500 > From: Petro > Subject: Re: TEMPEST laptops (fwd) > >It depends on the frequency. Last time I checked a laser or a maser (both > >are radio waves strictly speaking) travel LOS. The scattering comes from > >beam divergence and incidental refractions and reflections from the > >molecules in the air and supported detritus. > > And both Lasers and Masers scatter under certain conditions. If you > can see the laser, it is scattering a bit of [energy light photons] All EM radiation scatters *IF* the wavelength of the signal is comparable to the wavelength of the particulate. If the particulate is less than about 1/3 wavelength it won't significantly scatter. The reason that dust in the air scatters lasers (and masers don't have this problem because the wavelength is too long) is that the particles are significantly larger than the wavelenght of the signal. It is directly analogous to moon-shine. In astronomy this is related to something called the Poynting Effect. This is also the reason that IR radiation goes through smoke and fog while visible light won't. Raleigh Scattering is the reason that the fog appears white. In photography and radar mapping this is what limits the resolution of the bounced signal as well. You can build an experiment to demonstrate this with peg-board, pegs, and some rope. Lay the peg-board on a table. Place a peg on one edge and connect the rope. then along the line of the rope place other pegs at equal but different distances and try to get a transverse plane wave to travel down the rope. Note the relative wavelenght of the wave in the rope to the spacing of the pegs. It takes practice to get it to work correctly so don't give up to easy. > I was under the (apparently false) impression that things like > animal bodies, and ordinary building materials (like wood, Lathe & > plaster/drywall) wouldn't stop or significantly bounce the beams back the > way you didn't want them to go. Depends on the material, angle of incidence, water content, frequency of the signal, transmissivity of the material at that frequency, etc. In the 10cm radar (used by tanks and ground troops to find each other) even leaves will bounce a signal. > I was thinking more of controling the direction of the RF, rather > than trying to completely supress it. Exaclty. The issue then is what do we do with the signal once we've got it directed where we want it. For EM signals we want to get them to a ground plane so they go away and don't exist anymore. If it doesn't exist anymore you can't very well tap it. > We're not cooking Hotdogs here, and we aren't using (for the most > part) microwaves. Yes, you can heat a hotdog on a PII, but that is more > from heat radiation than RF. > > Microwave ovens also leak RF. True enough, but the physics are applicable. Don't confuse cause with effect. As to microwave ovens leaking, yes but they leak orders of magnitude less which makes them orders of magnitude harder to detect. That is the point to TEMPEST after all, take advantage of the 1/r^2 law so the mallet has to be sitting right in your lap to get a good field strength. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Nov 5 14:00:48 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 06:00:48 +0800 Subject: How to test *your* microwave oven distribution pattern. (fwd) Message-ID: <199811052126.PAA14347@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 13:09:09 -0800 > From: David Honig > Subject: Re: How to test *your* microwave oven distribution pattern. > At 08:47 AM 11/5/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: > >Here's a simple way to test the bounce-pattern of your micro-wave oven: > > Simpler: stick a neon-bulb with the leads twisted off into the oven. > Watch the glow vary. Put a cup of water in there since you're not supposed > to run empty. Yes, but they don't give you as easily measured level of the incident radiation. with a neon bulb or a flourescent tube (what I prefer) you have a hard time mapping radiation level to brightness with commenly available photometers. Photo quality stuff isn't nearly accurate enough. > > - Make sure the stake is in suitable ground without lots of quartz > > and other similar peizo-electric materials. > > Not piezo (though quartz is), but non conductive. You have to > tap the groundwater table. Sand, granite don't conduct. Sand has lots of piezo. You don't want piezo because the ground pressure on the stake will cause excessive noise. As to non-conductive, you *WANT* it to be conductive otherwise the signals will form ground waves and propogate horizontaly. You can see this with radar signals from aircraft that bounce off the tarmac (I used to live next to the Austin airport and had access to a spectrum analyzer). If the ground plane isn't conductive it isn't a ground plane. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody at replay.com Thu Nov 5 14:06:15 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 06:06:15 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199811052119.WAA22172@replay.com> :: Subject: more on Dore's discovery of intelligence (satellite 415) http://www.enterprisemission.com/images/auscnfrm.jpg http://www.lunaranomalies.com/update2.htm http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_203000/203133.stm From jkwilli2 at unity.ncsu.edu Thu Nov 5 14:19:55 1998 From: jkwilli2 at unity.ncsu.edu (Ken Williams) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 06:19:55 +0800 Subject: US Cyberthreat Policy In-Reply-To: <199811051449.JAA12327@camel8.mindspring.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Kenneth A. Minihan and George J. Tenet Elected to America Online, Inc. Board of Directors New Board Members Hail From NSA and CIA DULLES, VA /DenounceNewswire/ -- 5 November 1998 -- America Online, Inc. announced today Lieutenant General Kenneth A. Minihan, Director of the National Security Agency and Chief of the Central Security Service, and George J. Tenet, Director of the Central Intelligence Agency, have been elected to its Board of Directors. AOL now boasts a board that includes the former head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Colin Powell; a former Nixon aide General Alexander Haig; and two distingished leaders of the U.S. intelligence community. "I am proud today to announce the election of Lieutenant General Kenneth Minihan and George Tenet to America Online's Board of Directors. Both of them possess records of proven leadership and commitment to public service that will be invaluable to our company as we work to build our business and the interactive medium into the next millennium," said Steve Case, Chairman and CEO of America Online, Inc. Mr. Case added: "Lieutenant General Minihan's record of service to our country, both in the military and in his current work with the NSA, is without equal in our times. His commitment to America's security and our country's future fits squarely with AOL's determination to build an online medium that dominates people's lives -- helping us to learn, to organize their lives, and even to engage more fully in the political process." Mr. Case continued: "George Tenet is a visionary leader in both the world of intelligence-gathering and the mass marketplace. He has played key roles in landmark achievements for our society. His expertise in the world of cloak and dagger will serve AOL in meeting the critical challenges facing the Company and in fulfilling our commitment to build a medium that threatens society as no other before." Mr. Case wasn't done yet, adding further: "We look forward to working with the NSA and the CIA as we migrate the AOL network over to complete ECHELON compatibility with the next six months." ECHELON is the government's secret worldwide network that monitors all voice, data, fax, video, satellite, and digital communications in every country, recording, indexing, and collating every utterance made between every man, woman, child, business, or other organization, as well as between any two computer systems anywhere. "The perception that the Internet can change and improve peoples' lives and to reconnect them to their community is powerful and extraordinary," said Lt. General Minihan. "I'm honored to serve on the Board of a company that has been leading the way in creating such a perception in the public's mind, and leading the way to shaping a medium that that will open new doors of opportunity for our national security state." "In the next few years, public policy discussions in Washington and around the world will have as much to do with the development and ultimate impact of the Internet as any technological advance," said Mr. Tenet. "I look forward to serving a Company that is at the center of these policy discussions and is playing a large role in determining the success -- or failure -- of people around the world." source: http://www.denounce.com/nsaol.html Regards, - -- Ken Williams Packet Storm Security http://www.Genocide2600.com/~tattooman/index.shtml E.H.A.P. Corporation http://www.ehap.org/ ehap at ehap.org info at ehap.org NCSU Comp Sci Dept http://www.csc.ncsu.edu/ jkwilli2 at adm.csc.ncsu.edu PGP DSS/DH/RSA Keys http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkwilli2/pgpkey/ ________________________________________________________ Get Private, Free, Encrypted Email at http://www.nsa.gov -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNkIac5Dw1ZsNz1IXAQHwIAf/ZWpQQvvwJiA2ANEuvUl9+WBC8HbrX2Hc I4a3ZH4KKRJA/lUndaCOxvvkMe6R2vwdI92dTnI6GiKx9QAOfkwPeb4Cw+xAFsgJ DRv0rrw3g8LTK+U+dM6xQsW1Sl1w1CVzSPc8Urh87d587Sd6/IDdDDIMHrsXlxPp xxg+fNbbQE2bvUpd0+Nxo2gC8JpQGTq6YighXTufxLiFEr1xDU7FO7T6V22p2oMB u32p/SLh16AG2aQRVI8z5hIsybIXVfCFc5dWTdaV43vuJE6yyteLDDtttPwTBeJS 6SCu5j6d5PnkdvbDN7+1zy7wMPkyktMyv4ewkGF5QEj2UpPg2bCKHw== =yO91 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From rah at shipwright.com Thu Nov 5 14:31:19 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 06:31:19 +0800 Subject: Holloween II: Microsoft Plugs Linux Message-ID: http://www.opensource.org/halloween2.html is a more extensive, (positively glowing) freshly smuggled (planted?) internal analysis of Linux by Microsoft. 103k, but definitely worth reading. Cheers, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From mmotyka at lsil.com Thu Nov 5 14:44:32 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 06:44:32 +0800 Subject: Now where am I gonna get a good horseburger? Message-ID: <36422225.52F2@lsil.com> In CA it is now a felony to eat a horse. I don't remember asking to be transported to Walt Disney World...wait 'til someone other than Gary Larson anthropomorphises the chicken, cow and pig! On a lighter, more technical note - Avoiding carefully, for the moment, Harvey Rook's statement that weaknesses in cipher systems often lie in key generation and management and not in the crypto algorithms, I'll ask a few -naive- questions: If we construct a CSPRNG with a ?sufficiently? large state and then use the output of that PRNG to generate a new key for each block encrypted by a standard block cipher have we gained anything? Large files vs. small? When used with triple encryption like 3DES? The ROI for finding a single key is certainly much lower if the PRNG is "good". I've never seen a PR keystream for a conventional block cipher discussed so I thought I'd lob it out there. Mike From mgering at ecosystems.net Thu Nov 5 14:45:04 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 06:45:04 +0800 Subject: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd) Message-ID: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B24B@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com> > Robert Hettinga wrote: > > A government is just another economic actor. A very large > > economic actor with lots of guns and a monopoly on force, > > but an economic actor nonetheless. > > No they are not, > > Yes, they are. Can you say 'taxes'? Imposed by a gun. > Can you say 'interstate commerce'? What about it? > Can you say 'mint money'? Can you say 'federal reserve'? Can you say government fiat? > Can you say 'FDIC'? Can you say banking regulation at the point of a gun? > I thought so. Yep. > > History shows this. > > Really? What history? The Soviet Union is a prime recent example. British Mercantilism. Governments are ultimately bound to economics in the sense of human behavior and productivity -- the more they deny the nature of microeconomic actors, the quicker they self-destruct. History shows that every dynasty well eventually self-destruct, to think ours won't is foolish. My point is we don't have competitive governments per se, you have a power void that is filled by new government that can be just as hostile to those microeconomic actors. All our government failures have yet to produce a sustainable government. > False distinction. Politics is about control and power The fundamental laws of economics are supply and demand. As soon as you through force into the equation, it is no longer economic, it is political. > in human society that breaks down to force and money. The essence of money has no political roots. The essence of money is human productivity and trade. Money is tied to politics currently because it is regulated by force of government and the money *supply* is created by government fiat. > There you go again, confusing privacy with economics... The discussion *was* *privacy*, or did you completely miss the initial discussion? Privacy (as opposed to secrecy) is about discretionary disclosure of information. To invade privacy is to remove or prevent that discretion. There is an economic cost of doing so, and an economic benefit. Corporations are bound by those economics, whereas government can mandate transparency by whim and gun. > > use coercive force today preventing privacy, but government is > > their instrument of force. > > True, but that isn't a function of regulation per se only the > particular type of regulation that we have implimented. It is the *nature* of regulation. The end element of any regulation is a gun. Government is a natural instrument of collective legalized force by any group that can influence it, and to think it can't and won't be influenced denies human nature in regards to power. Every government is despotic by nature, force corrupts. > > They have a *legal* monopoly on force (within a state). > > No, they don't. It is perfectly legal for an individual to > own a weapon. The legal monopoly on the *initiation* of force. And in fact you have very little freedom (eternally diminishing) to obtain potential force (arms) and use it in a *reactionary* manner. You have absolutely *no* freedom to use it reactionary against government (which is in the face of the 4th). > There is also a clear distinction between the local police, > your state police, federal agents, military, etc. It is an irrelevant distinction in this case, it is all government. They do not use force against each other as any sort of competitive balance. > No it doesn't. It points to the fact that individuals want to > participate in some activity that some other party doesn't > want to occur. General democratic consensus is highly controlled by media and government propaganda (if they are not one in the same). What is the underlying motivation? Is hemp illegal because people don't want people to smoke weed, or because of the cotton lobby? Is the war on drugs so unbreakable because people don't want people taking drugs, or because the government funds black operations with its sales, uses it to confiscate private property, and as a sounding post for increased powers? Do people not want free banking, or does the government wish to protects its fiat currency and artificial stability flying in the face of economic reality? > It does not imply that the regulating party wants the potential > income from those activities. Money or power, more often than most people think. > Further more, even in a free-market there will exist > black markets. Provided you don't corrupt the meaning of free-market to include any possible black market, then yes, there will *always* be a black market. It can be made rather insignificant however. > The aspect of a free-market is that there is no consequence from > such actions (unless you want to admit to allowing corporations to have > their own hit squads). And again you pervert the meaning of free market. I'm tired arguing that subject with you, go read a book. Matt From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Nov 5 14:46:59 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 06:46:59 +0800 Subject: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd) Message-ID: <199811052212.QAA14923@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:43:40 -0500 > From: Petro > Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone > (fwd) > Anarchy is usually defined as the absense of government. What > exactly makes up a "government", what are it's defining characteristics? Well let's see.... control over some geographic area arbitration of conflict tithe from the inhabitants of that area regulation of economic systems by controlling the medium of trade (ie money) > Simply a device for reallocating wealth?--Insufficient, there are > lots of mechanisms for that. No, government control economies that's not the same thing as having re-allocation of wealth as a goal. That's more a responsbility of a business than a government. Governments, at least in principle, are concerned with stable economies and the continued existance of same. Who exactly, if anyone, is holder of that wealth is in principle irrelevant to the definition of political systems as a general expression of human psychology. Though it is clear the devil is in the details. > A body that lays down standards and rules of conduct?--Sounds like > a church or industry consortium to me. It sounds like an expression of the social aspects of human psychology. Whether it's a church, industry consortium, local LEA, local fire dept., etc. > A heirarchical (sp?) structure that uses fear, propaganda and force > to reallocate wealth, enforce standards and rules of conduct, and other > things at whim (for varying values of "whim", from the "whim" of a > dictator, to the "whim" of the "body politic"). Who cares whether it's heirarchical or flat (as in an anarchy or free-market). The point is that abuse takes place. It is no more ethical to bash somebodies brains in under an anarchy than it is in a democracy or a communicsm. > Now, THAT is a government. Yes, some of what it enforces is > probably a good idea (i.e. everyone driving on the same side of the road, > &etc) some if it is kinda silly (don't smoke dope, or you're going to jail > (Here, have a beer)), and some of it is downright stupid and shortsighted > (encryption policy, not drinking beer out of a bucket on the sidewalk). Sounds like an expression of the range of human beliefs. Whether something is right, wrong, stupid, etc. is a function of individual statements of importance and ranking of consequences. > Anarchy is not having to be effected by that, being "free" to > follow what one thinks is right. Which unfortunately includes the neighbor being able to take your property by force since he believes it's right. > How one gets to that state is not really > relevent. Tell that to the mother of the kid who got killed last night because he had something somebody else wanted. Also explain to here how under an anarchy there isn't any recourse for her other than to try to find that person herself and kill them.... Yep, that is a very efficient and ethical system you wanna build. My statement above simply lays out the position having Privacy > (for large enough values of privacy to be meaningful) and Freedom (for > large enough values of Freedom to be meaningful) one is effectively in an > anarchistic state. That is what "close enough to be meaningful" meant. Freedom is the right to do what you want *WITHOUT* impinging or otherwise limiting others right to express their desires and wants. Anarchy clearly won't do that. > Privacy is (at least it's my understanding) the ability to hide or > mask information in such a way that only people you wish to have access > to it do. If privacy exists you don't have to hide things because nobodies looking in the first place. You only need to hide things if you're reasonably certain somebody else wants it. > There are varying degrees of Privacy, from "Well, at least they Yep, like there are varying degrees of pregnancy. Either somebody is looking or they aren't. > don't analyize what's in my feeces, even if they do watch me take it" to > being able to completely hide any information at all from anyone. No, that is varying degrees of *respect* for privacy. Not the same animal at all. > Freedom is the ability to make choices, and exercise those choices. Without impinging on others freedom. It's worth noting that anarchist don't add that last one in there because it blows their whole little house of cards completely away. > Just like privacy, there are varying degrees of freedom, from the > convict who can chose wheter he/she wants to eat that slop or go hungry, to > the president of the US who can (apparently) bomb people with impunity, lie > under oath & etc. No, there are varying degrees of respect for freedom. > When the amount of freedom and privacy is high enough, it is > indistinguishable from anarchy. Sure it is, because under anarchy there is no protection that one persons expression won't interfere with anothers expression without resorting to violence. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rah at shipwright.com Thu Nov 5 14:55:19 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 06:55:19 +0800 Subject: FYI: Digicash bankruptcy Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text X-Sender: "Nahum.array" Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 14:32:51 -0500 To: ibc-forum at ARRAYdev.com From: Nahum Goldmann Subject: FYI: Digicash bankruptcy Mime-Version: 1.0 I believe this kind of information is invaluable. Personally, I do not subscribe to Agre's doom and gloom. For years I'm saying that there is a very little "i" and a very large "C" in iCommerce. Chaum might be many bright things but an entrepreneur he definitely ain't. But than it's quite difficult in this new paradigm for all of us. Of course, Bob Hettinga could have saved quite a lot of energy and avoid much disappointment if he did pay for that my trip to Antigua. I always believe that unpaid advice is not listened to, and here is a good prove of this concept. Have fun. I'm sure it will come. Eventually. Nahum Goldmann ARRAY Development http://www.ARRAYdev.com ======================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:36:52 -0800 (PST) From: Phil Agre To: "Red Rock Eater News Service" Subject: [RRE]Digicash bankruptcy Sender: List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.2 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: [With the bankruptcy of Digicash, it is time to assemble the definitive list of underperforming Internet technologies. The received wisdom is that the Internet lies at the vortex of a historically unprecedented era of intensive and disruptive technological change. A sober reading of the evidence, however, supports something much closer to the opposite thesis, viz, the Internet is a modest and useful new tool that, despite itself, has given rise to an astonishingly wasteful mania whereby perfectly good capital is plowed into one ill-conceived technology after another. Consider: interactive television, VRML, Active X, network computers, "push" technology, agents, "social" interfaces, resource visualization, cryptographic payment mechanisms (aka "electronic commerce"), and others that I hope you'll remind me about. Each of these has been the object of a frenzy that has compelled all manner of smart people, and a whole lot of dumb ones such as myself, to say things like, "boy oh boy, the world is going to be completely different a year from now". This has been going on continuously since the PR hype that accompanied the run-up to the (failed) Communications Act of 1994 and then the (passed but then catastrophically failed) Communications Act of 1996. It has been fanned by Wired magazine, whose capitulation to Conde Nast has ended an era that should never have begun, and now it is marked by the bankruptcy of David Chaum's Digicash. All right-thinking people were in favor of Digicash, whose technologies were as intellectually elegant as they were socially responsible. The problem is that the Digicash people were living in the world of Alice and Bob -- a place where a mathematical proof can change the world in perfect defiance of the dynamics (if you can call them that) of large, highly integrated institutions. Like many Internet-related startups, Digicash existed only to the precise extent that the press was writing about it, and now it doesn't exist at all. So right now would be an excellent time for us to renounce the false idea that we are living in a time of unprecedented technical change. Yes, the Web has been going through a period of exponential growth. But no, that growth is not at all unprecedented, and in fact it is running behind the penetration rates that earlier technologies such as the radio and gas cooking achieved once they started being adopted on a mass scale. (See, for example, Ronald C. Tobey's scholarly and absorbing "Technology As Freedom: The New Deal and the Electrical Modernization of the American Home", Univ. of California Press, 1996.) Nor has the underlying Internet changed at all quickly. The Internet protocols that we use today are unchanged in their essentials from about 1982. In fact, once the real history of this era is written, I think that 1982 will shape up as the true annus mirabilis, and 1994 will simply be seen as the era when the innovations of ten to fifteen years earlier finally caught public attention and reached the price point that was needed to achieve the network externalities required for its large- scale adoption. If we get out the rake and drag away all of the detritus of the underperforming technologies that I listed above, and compare our times on an apples-for-apples basis with other periods of technological innovation -- including the Depression era, for heaven's sake -- then I think we will have a much healthier perspective going forward. As it is, people the world over have been propagandized into a state of panic, one that encourages them to abandon all of their experience and common sense and buy lots of computer equipment so that they will not be scorned by their children and left behind by the apocalypse that is supposedly going to arrive any day now. No such apocalypse is going to occur, and all of the TV preachers who have been announcing this apocalypse should apologize and give the people their money back. Yes, the world is going to change. Yes, information technology will participate, and is already participating, in a significant overhaul of the workings of most major social institutions. But no, those changes are not going to happen overnight. The sad line-up of underperforming technologies should be understood not as serious attempts at innovation but as a kind of ritual, an expensive and counterproductive substitute for the chants and dances that healthy societies perform when they are placed under stress. Maybe once we get some healthy rituals for contending with technological change ourselves, we will be able to snap out of our trance, cast off the ridiculous hopes and fears of an artificially induced millennium, and take up the serious work of discussing, organizing, and contesting the major choices about our institutions that lie ahead.] =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= This message was forwarded through the Red Rock Eater News Service (RRE). Send any replies to the original author, listed in the From: field below. You are welcome to send the message along to others but please do not use the "redirect" command. For information on RRE, including instructions for (un)subscribing, see http://dlis.gseis.ucla.edu/people/pagre/rre.html or send a message to requests at lists.gseis.ucla.edu with Subject: info rre =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 18:02:08 -0500 From: Robert Hettinga To: Digital Bearer Settlement List , dcsb at ai.mit.edu, e$@vmeng.com, cryptography at c2.net, cypherpunks at cyberpass.net Subject: Re: DigiCash Inc. to File Reorganization, Seeks Partners to Drive eCash Forward -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Okay. Contrary to my own previous -- and painfully recent -- opinions on the matter, Digicash, Inc., is, more or less, in play again, or it will be if there is enough money chasing it. Whatever "enough" means. Putting on my Gordon Gekko hat, here, I'm interested in finding out a few things. Yes, I have seen the greater fool theory of the blind signature patent operate more than a few times, but I am, nonetheless, driven to think about this, and I might as well be public in my musing, at least for the time being. For expenses of any new company, it should be pretty clear by now what I would do with the DigiCash technology portfolio. I would put a real good intellectual property lawyer on the payroll, keep the cryptographers who would still consent to stick around, keep or improve whatever software test people they have left, and do nothing but sell licenses and implementation certifications, using the the underwiting model at as a roadmap. For this imaginary company's revenue, aside from direct fees for validating a developer's, and possibly an underwriter's, implementation of the protocol, the trustee would be the only point of patent royalty collection and payment from the underwriters and developers to the new patent holder. As far as the current installed base is concerned, I would probably spin off a company to support those customers, and give it a non-exclusive license as if it were any other developer. This assumes, of course, that DigiCash BV/Inc. didn't issue exclusive-by-country licenses. While it appears on the surface that they have done exactly this, I have been met with what seems like incredulity from various DigiCash folks when I talk about it, so, for the time being, I'll take them at their word when they tell me it isn't so. Actually, when I think about it, it may be immaterial, as there are lots of countries on the internet to park underwriters and trustees in, and they can denominate their bearer cash instruments in any currency they want. One way or another, the software side of DigiCash would be gone. We figure out what the net present value is of the current licenses, and hope that a company can be formed around that cashflow and spun off into a separate software development company. If we're lucky, we make money on the spinoff and keep the patent. If we're not lucky, DigiCash will probably have to get rid of it's current obligations before *anyone* clueful would step in to pick up the patents, and just the patents, alone. Obviously, what has been spent so far building DigiCash, BV or Inc., is immaterial to any discussion of the future. Just like what happened to Chaum, et. al., when Negroponte and companies um, executed, the purchase of last version of DigiCash, we have to completely forget the all the money which has been spent on Digicash BV, now Digicash Inc., so far, and ignore the howls of the current investors, as painful as that may be to listen to. :-). They knew the job was dangerous when they took it, anyway... Okay, that's a nice story. How about some actual data? I expect the best way to get a handle of royalties is to start soliciting actual projected royalty estimates from potential developers and underwriters, but, frankly, I think that most developers and underwriters, like the rest of us, have no real idea how much money they're going to make. Nonetheless, if anyone's interested in telling me, offline, what they think they would would be fair royalty payments, either as an underwriter or as a developer, I'd like to hear their estimates. My PGP key is attached. My own rule of thumb, for cash anyway, is that an underwriter can probably charge no more than a bank charges to one of their non-customer ATM transactions. That's probably no more than $3.00 a withdrawl. They also get to keep the interest on the reserve account, if any, of course. Frankly, if the royalties are low enough, that may be more than enough revenue to bootstrap a business with, and I would personally lobby for as low a royalty structure as possible. That, of course, is driven entirely by the cost/revenue picture, but it might be that a majority of the short-term operations can be bootstrapped out of validation fees. That leaves all the other potential markets for blind-signature macroscale digital bearer settlement, everything from long-duration bandwidth purchases for IP or voice dialtone on up to actual securities transactions themselves. Most of these potential applications will occur after the patents expire, but whoever owns these patents should allow not only licenses to all comers, but, more to the point, should allow all *licensees* to worry about the legal ramafications of the patents' use. If a particular licensee can find a legal jurisdiction to offer utterly anonymous digital bearer instruments backed by totally anonymous reserves, then, as long as the licensee pays up, god bless 'em. The patents should be licensed within the law, certainly, but, other than that, their use should be considered value neutral, like all technology. As in all bearer markets before them, the digital bearer trustee will be the point of maximum legal compliance, and, as such, will be the functional "policeman" of the system. I leave the interesting solution of bearer-backed trustees for some other day, probably after the patents have long expired. Okay. There's lots more to talk about, of course, but I'm kind of tapped out on this for the time being. If you're an intellectual property lawyer, and you fancy yourself running the DigiCash patent portfolio, contact me directly. I'm not sure exactly what I can do, if anything, but I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on this, as the potential core person of this as yet imaginary enterprize, up to, and including what it would cost for you to sign on for this much fun as at least in-house counsel, if not the actual CEO. :-). In addition, if someone has a reasonable non-proprietary(!) estimate of the projected revenues on all those outstanding ecash contracts, that would be nice to know as well. The terms of those contracts, are, of course, probably unknowable at the moment, at least until someone has enough known scratch to belly up to the table, sign an NDA and take a peek. Of course, then they couldn't tell us anything anyway... Isn't this fun? Cheers, Bob Hettinga [Public keys ommitted] ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------160D55EEEBD38D036F141A24-- --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From mixmaster at remail.obscura.com Thu Nov 5 15:37:19 1998 From: mixmaster at remail.obscura.com (Mixmaster) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 07:37:19 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <99ebb21979319a23b4f5dafb9ef3cf83@anonymous> Re voting for politicos: just received this spam... --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- Subject: Psst..... Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:31:39 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981104093139.00b88b80 at nyc-services.nis.newscorp.com> >>> >>>>When John Glenn returns from space, everybody dress in Ape Suits. >>>> >>>>Pass it on. >>>> --------- End forwarded message ---------- From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Thu Nov 5 15:46:45 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 07:46:45 +0800 Subject: Euro-Telecoms Standards gives access to GSM & other specs Message-ID: <199811052322.XAA02881@server.eternity.org> Someone pointed out this information to me. The European Telecommunications Standards Institute (ETSI) have granted access to allow everyone, not just members, to their specifications. These include the GSM specs. Start here: http://webapp.etsi.org/publicationssearch/ Adam From jya at pipeline.com Thu Nov 5 15:48:11 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 07:48:11 +0800 Subject: Project 415 Message-ID: <199811052256.RAA03477@camel8.mindspring.com> Duncan Campbell says he doubts the Paul Dore story has anything to do with P415/Echelon, which is a collection system not a satellite. Moreover, the description of a "deep space" satellite does not fit the the known parameters of those that gather intelligence. Might be a completely new type but that's a stretch. One article Anonymous posted says Paul Dore denies having anything to do with the Web page we cited here as having been removed. Another says the SETI people are pissed about the incident, one saying it has set SETI's credibility back "by a 100 years." Still unexplained is the reason for the now 11,000 downloads of Duncan's 1988 article on P451/Echelon in the last 36 hours. Could be an alien bot, pissed at being awakened by SETI putzes' screen savers. From mmotyka at lsil.com Thu Nov 5 16:08:48 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 08:08:48 +0800 Subject: Grounding Message-ID: <364233E1.13BB@lsil.com> Jim, I really have to disagree about shielding and leakage. *** Electricity runs from a high-potential point to ground. If it isn't grounded it radiates away into space where it can be detected. If the Faraday Cage isn't grounded it simply acts as a parasitic oscillator and re-emits the signal from inside, though at a lower amplitude. Remember, charge rests on the *OUTSIDE* of a object so that any charge picked up internaly gets passed to the outside surface. *** Consider a battery-powered spark gap inside a copper box. Lots of beautiful wideband noise. I refuse to ground my copper box. I'm going to suspend it from a weather balloon over Menwith Hill. The solutions to the wave equation inside the cavity have a real part ~0 in the exponent. The boundary condition at the inside surface of the copper box splices together the solutions in the cavity and inside the conductor. Which solutions, BTW, have a real component that is non-zero so the waves are of exponentially decreasing amplitude the further into the Cu you go ( skin depth, power loss ). At the inside boundary, the higher the conductivity the smaller the E field at the surface, the shallower the skin depth and the more power is reflected with less loss. The amplitude of the internal Cu ( exponentially decreasing ) solutions at the outside surface determines the extent to which the wave leaks out because the solution is imaginary again outside. If it helps, the solution looks like the Schroedinger equation solution for a particle in a potential well when at least one boundary is a region of finite potential. Leakage has nothing to do with being grounded since the wave can be generated without the total charge residing on the surface of the box ( DC potential ) changing at all. What's there just moves around a little, that's all. I don't think it takes a whole lot of copper to do the job: the skin depth is pretty small. A copper screen behaves much like the copper sheet execept that it deviates as the wavelengths become closer to the dimensions of the holes. You might say that the resistivity increases with frequency. It leaks more. ** The 1st rule of electrons: They always take the shortest path to ground. Corollary: If they can't get to ground they radiate their excess energy away as photons. *** Oh, for crying out loud! Where did this stuff come from? I prefer the three laws of thermodynamics in layman's terms: i) You can't get something for nothing ii) The best you can do is break even iii) You can't even do that Works for my checking account too. Regards, Mike BTW - I'm still at a loss to understand what the geology has to do with RF shielding. Chaff, I think. BTW^2 - The more conductive the TARMAC the more clutter you'll get because it will be a better reflector. Ground or not. The incident waves *don't care*. From nobody at replay.com Thu Nov 5 16:23:20 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 08:23:20 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199811052358.AAA03470@replay.com> 24 shots came from 1 officer in Oregon case Policeman fired until gun empty, then reloaded and kept firing By BOB SABLATURA Copyright 1998 Houston Chronicle One of the officers nobilled in the death of Pedro Oregon Navarro fired his semiautomatic pistol at the 22-year-old man until the magazine was empty, then reloaded and continued firing. In all, Officer David R. Barrera fired 24 of the 33 shots discharged in Oregon's southwest Houston apartment July 12, according to sources familiar with the investigation. Assistant District Attorney Ed Porter confirmed that Barrera fired most of the shots. While the medical examiner's office could not determine the exact caliber of the bullets that made the 12 wounds in Oregon's body, Porter said, three of the four bullets recovered from the body were fired from Barrera's weapon. Porter, who was present on the scene a few hours after the shooting -- and reconstructed it during a walk-through with the officers involved -- suggested that the bullets that struck Oregon may have been some of the last shots that the officers fired. "I strongly suspect that was the case," Porter said. Richard Mithoff, an attorney representing Oregon's family, said it is "incomprehensible" that one of the officers paused to reload his weapon. "They had no grounds to be in the apartment, and no grounds to open fire," Mithoff said. "And if this is true, there certainly was no grounds to reload and execute this guy lying on the ground." Aaron Ruby, a member of the Justice for Pedro Oregon Coalition, said Barrera's actions could only be termed "homicidal and premeditated," and probably explain the numerous bullet holes in Oregon's back. "If that fact was known to the grand jury, it makes their actions all the more outrageous," Ruby said. "I believe the people of Houston will be stunned when they learn of this." Harris County District Attorney John B. Holmes Jr. said state law allows police officers to use deadly force if they believe it necessary for self-defense and can continue shooting "so long as they reasonably perceive" the threat continues. "An analogy I use is that if it is OK to kill a guy dead, it is OK to kill him dead, dead, dead," Holmes said. Holmes said it is also not uncommon for a police officer involved in a shooting to have no idea how many shots he fired. Barrera, a five-year veteran of the Houston Police Department, was armed with a 9 mm Sig-Sauer semi-automatic pistol loaded with nylon-coated bullets. According to the Police Department, after illegally entering Oregon's apartment with fellow members of the HPD gang task force in an unsuccessful search for drugs, Barrera and several other officers chased Oregon to his bedroom and kicked in the locked door. During the pursuit, Barrera's pistol discharged, striking one of his partners in the shoulder. The officers said they believed they were being shot at, and two officers joined Barrera in firing at Oregon. Barrera emptied his pistol, paused to reload a new magazine, and resumed firing, according to prosecutors. Investigators later determined that Barrera fired a total of 24 rounds. Barrera's weapon was originally loaded with a standard 16-round magazine, which held at least 14 rounds. He reloaded with an extended magazine holding even more rounds. The second magazine was not emptied, according to sources. Officers David R. Perkins and Pete A. Herrada fired a total of nine rounds between them. Both officers were armed with similar .40-caliber handguns. Perkins carried a Sig-Sauer Model 40 and Herrada was armed with a Glock Model 23. Prosecutors said only about 10 seconds elapsed from the time the shooting began to the time it ended. Semi-automatic pistols typically are double-action on the first shot, meaning that pulling the trigger draws the hammer back -- cocking it -- and then releases it. After the first shot, the hammer remains in a cocked position so less trigger-tension is required to fire the weapon, making it fire quicker. The officer can also aim the gun more accurately because it takes less movement of the trigger to discharge shots. Oregon's body was hit 12 times, nine times in the back, once in the back of the shoulder, and once in the back of his left hand. In addition, one shot entered the top of his head, exiting above the right ear. At least nine shots entered his body at a downward angle, suggesting he was shot while face-down on the floor. Four bullets were recovered from Oregon's body, and numerous bullet fragments were found underneath the carpet beneath the body. The body was face-down, with his head toward the doorway through which the police officers were firing. Attorneys for the Oregon family dispute the police officers' version of events, and say Oregon was not in the front of the apartment when police illegally barged in. "It is my understanding that he was in the bedroom," Mithoff said. They also contend that some of the officers' shots were fired through the bedroom wall, indicating they were blindly firing into the room. Porter said he has examined numerous crime scenes involving police shootings during his career and is amazed just how often shots fired by police officers miss their mark. "Most people think an officer fires a weapon and someone gets shot," Porter said. "Often that is just not the case." Holmes said the grand jury heard evidence regarding all the shots fired, the trajectory of the bullets, the position of the officers and the medical examiner's reports regarding wounds to Oregon's body. "The specific number of times and the path of the projectiles was known to the grand jury," Holmes said. After hearing all the evidence, a grand jury cleared five of the six officers -- including Barrera -- of all charges. One officer was charged with a misdemeanor offense of criminal trespass. Earlier this week, all six officers were fired by Chief C.O. Bradford for violating the law and ignoring department procedures. Barrera's attorney did not respond to a request for an interview. Rick Dovalina, national president of LULAC, said he is especially concerned that HPD Internal Affairs found the officers had violated the law in conducting the raid, but the grand jury had brought no charges. He renewed his call for Holmes to try to bring charges against the officers. "They are both supposed to be looking at the same evidence," Dovalina said. "Johnny Holmes needs to do the right thing and present the case to another grand jury." Posted for the entertainment of those that chide Tim for being armed to the teeth. Regards, TimeToBuyAGun From nobody at replay.com Thu Nov 5 16:24:19 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 08:24:19 +0800 Subject: Holloween II: Microsoft Plugs Linux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199811052356.AAA03329@replay.com> If you liked Eric's halloween.html, you'll this one too -- chock full of hilarious Microsoft misunderstandings about Linux. > http://www.opensource.org/halloween2.html is a more extensive... > internal analysis of Linux by Microsoft. Naughty boy, Robert -- now you've made me get coffee all over my keyboard: "The GCC and PERL language compilers are often provided for free with all versions of Linux... By the standards of the ... developer accustomed to VB [Visual Basic], these tools are incredibly primitive." ROTFL! This is obviously a hitherto unknown meaning for the word "primitive". OTOH, Vinod and Josh summarise things pretty well. Well worth reading (but read halloween.html first). 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It's faster than ever before and now, as a subscriber, you get 35 FREE new pics every day, plus over 100 more at carefully selected FREE sites we link to. This email is never sent unsolicited. Stuffed is the supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full instructions on unsubscribing are in every issue of Eureka! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Thu Nov 5 16:43:16 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 08:43:16 +0800 Subject: new 448 bit key by Indian firm In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981104234056.008b6880@idiom.com> Message-ID: <199811052342.XAA03335@server.eternity.org> Bill Stewart writes: > 448 bits sounds a lot like MD5-based encryption - perhaps > Luby-Rackoff or MDC? Or a homegrown system, doing successive MD5s > or something? MD5 is no longer the safest hash these days.... More likely Blowfish for two reasons i) the article mentioned blowfish at the bottom (;-), and ii) blowfish keys can be up to 448 bits. Could be snake oil, or could be result of letting marketroid near press release. The press release was very confused in general. Adam From mmotyka at lsil.com Thu Nov 5 16:58:07 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 08:58:07 +0800 Subject: How to test *your* microwave oven distribution pattern. Message-ID: <364241B5.408B@lsil.com> Matt, > Please explain how you can sheild something without grounding it. > Doesn't the energy need some place to go? > Wrong metaphor for RF energy. It's not water. A ground is not a storm drain. Imagine two conductive spheres ( earth and moon ? ) and an RF generator in a box sitting *peacefully* in space. Classical 3-body problem. The DC potential that exists between any of them has absolutley no effect on a wave travelling anywhere ( unless you want to get into the topic of nonlinear materials ). So forget about everything in the scene except that generator in the box. Shielding consists solely of preventing the wave from getting out of the box into free space where it can be detected. There is nothing special about *any* of the DC references. Earth may be special ( source of women and beer ) but not to a wave. Besides, chaining my laptop to a giant copper spike in a geologically suitable region is out of the question. Just shielding it would make an already heavy ThinkPad into a main battle tank. Mike From rah at shipwright.com Thu Nov 5 17:07:20 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:07:20 +0800 Subject: Halloween II Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 18:53:46 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: love at cptech.org Originator: info-policy-notes at essential.org Sender: info-policy-notes at essential.org Precedence: bulk From: James Love To: Multiple recipients of list INFO-POLICY-NOTES Subject: Halloween II MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Comment: To unsubscribe from this list, send the message "unsubscribe info-policy-notes" to "listproc at essential.org". Leave the "Subject:" line blank. ------------------------------------------------------------ Info-Policy-Notes | News from Consumer Project on Technology ------------------------------------------------------------ November 5, 1998 Halloween II On November 2, 1998 Info-Policy-Notes provided a link to the so called Halloween document, which detailed Microsoft's analysis of Linux and other open source software. (http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/halloween.html) Now Eric Rayond has published a second document which he has dubbed Halloween II. This one is on the web at: http://www.opensource.org/halloween2.html Halloween II is authored by Vinod Valloppillil (VinodV), the author of the Halloween I, and Josh Cohen (JoshCo). It is dated Aug 11, 1998 , and is version 1.0. The heading is: Microsoft Confidential Linux Operating System The Next Java VM? The document is very interesting. One line that has gotten a lot of attention is at the end, where the authors suggest: "The effect of patents and copyright in combating Linux remains to be investigated." The Linux community generally thinks they can out code Microsoft, so long as they are permitted. But there is a lot of concern over software patents, which are often very broad, poorly researched by the US government, and expensive to litigate. Under recent court cases, there are few barriers to harassment based upon spurious litigation over patents, so this is a cause for concern. On a topic discussed at some length in Halloween I, Halloween II says by "folding extended functionality into today's commodity [open standards] services and create new [proprietary] protocols, we raise the bar & change the rules of the game." (the brackets added by me). There is also an interesting article in today's Linux Today: Who are all these people behind the Halloween document? Nov 5th, 12:32:47 Here's an in-depth look at the personalities behind the Halloween documents. By Dave Whitinger http://linuxtoday.com/stories/638.html A few other related articles are Tim O'Rielly's Open Letter to Microsoft about Halloween I, which is on the web at: http://www.oreilly.com/oreilly/press/tim_msletter.html and, news that Microsoft has tried to hire Linux hacker Alan Cox. This last one suggests Microsoft is stepping up their campaign to crush the open software movement. Here are some excerpts that Alan Cox posted today about the Halloween document. http://www.linux.org.uk/ [snip] Its important to realize how fundamental open standards are. Most people are probably sitting at a PC built with mixed cards from mixed vendors on an open standard bus, typing on a keyboard with open standard connectors, using an open standard Qwerty layout, talking an open standard RS232 serial protocol to a modem that talks an open protocol to the ISP. Its all running off a standard electricity specification. Even your chair is probably held together by open standard nuts and bolts. Computing is becoming a commodity item and like all commodity items it needs to be open, for the consumer and for the long term good of the industry as a whole. Linux is open, if there is anything you didn't get told you can check the source code. A couple of other fun things have happened too, the I2O SIG developing the next generation high end I/O interface for PC's have now made their specification open, and Microsoft tried to hire me. I think the I2O SIG have the better chance of success here. Alan This is Alan Cox's home page: http://www.linux.org.uk/diary/ There is also running commentary, much if it entertaining, often rather speculative, but also a very good source of breaking news on these issues at: http://www.slashdot.org Finally, CPT will be studying the Halloween documents, and asking antitrust authorities to determine if Microsoft's intended plans to corrupt open standards violate antitrust laws. More on this next week. Jamie Love 202.387.8030 ------------------------------------------------------------- INFORMATION POLICY NOTES: the Consumer Project on Technology http://www.cptech.org, 202.387.8030, fax 202.234.5127. Archives of Info-Policy-Notes are available from http://www.essential.org/listproc/info-policy-notes/ Subscription requests to listproc at cptech.org with the message: subscribe info-policy-notes Jane Doe To be removed from the list, the message should read, unsub info-policy-notes ------------------------------------------------------------- --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Nov 5 17:14:29 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:14:29 +0800 Subject: How to test *your* microwave oven distribution pattern. (fwd) Message-ID: <199811060036.SAA15709@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 16:24:21 -0800 > From: Michael Motyka > Subject: Re: How to test *your* microwave oven distribution pattern. > Wrong metaphor for RF energy. You said more than you know with that one. > It's not water. A ground is not a storm > drain. >From the perspective of the flow of charge that is a very good metaphor. Charge flows from the high charge area to the low charge area *always* and ground is by definition the lowest charge area there is. Just like water *always* flows from the high PE to the low PE. > Imagine two conductive spheres ( earth and moon ? ) and an RF generator > in a box sitting *peacefully* in space. Classical 3-body problem. That's gravity, not electrostatics. There are no intractable problems regarding n-body electrostatics issues as there is with gravity. Now of course in the real world we can't get one without the other, but you didn't mention that aspect. > The DC > potential that exists between any of them has absolutley no effect on a > wave travelling anywhere DC potentials have no effect on a wave anyway, they don't emit photons. They are a physical representation of a line intergral. The potential between two points is not effected by the path taken to get between the two points. > ( unless you want to get into the topic of > nonlinear materials ). Bullshit. > So forget about everything in the scene except > that generator in the box. Then why in hell did you bring it up in the first place. I smell spin doctor bullshit coming.... > Shielding consists solely of preventing the > wave from getting out of the box into free space where it can be > detected. There is nothing special about *any* of the DC references. There is no wave with DC. If you want to make a wave you have to *move* the DC field generator or the measurement device. Now the charge that is *in* the box will leak to the outside of the shield *even if it's an insulator*, it's called charge tunneling. > Earth may be special ( source of women and beer ) but not to a wave. Depends on a wave of what. If we're talking electrostatics then yes Earth is special. I would direct you to many of Nikola Tesla's work on this exact topic but you probably wouldn't read it. It's special because the Earth itself has a charge and that interacts with the charge on the box. If the charges are opposite they attract and the box moves toward the Earth (the Earth moves toward the box as well but the delta rho is inconsequential so we usualy ignore it). If the charges are identical then the two move apart. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Nov 5 17:21:20 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:21:20 +0800 Subject: Grounding (fwd) Message-ID: <199811060053.SAA15809@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 15:25:21 -0800 > From: Michael Motyka > Subject: Re: Grounding > *** > Electricity runs from a high-potential point to ground. If it isn't > grounded > it radiates away into space where it can be detected. If the Faraday > Cage > isn't grounded it simply acts as a parasitic oscillator and re-emits the > signal from inside, though at a lower amplitude. Remember, charge rests > on > the *OUTSIDE* of a object so that any charge picked up internaly gets > passed > to the outside surface. > *** > > Consider a battery-powered spark gap inside a copper box. Lots of > beautiful wideband noise. I refuse to ground my copper box. I'm going to > suspend it from a weather balloon over Menwith Hill. And you'll build a hell of a charge on it which will travel down the connecting cable that you have pounded into the Earth. > The solutions to the wave equation inside the cavity have a real part ~0 > in the exponent. It's not a question of a Schroedingers Wave Equation, it's a question of Maxwell's Equations. > The boundary condition at the inside surface of the > copper box splices together the solutions in the cavity and inside the > conductor. What conductor? The shell is equipotential unless you're trying to play head games with me so there follows there can be no current flow through it except radialy to the outside of the sphere. Let's walk through it using your model.... The spark gap generates sparks and that builds up free electrons in the space inside the sphere (whether it is gas filled or a vacuum is irrelevant). As that charge builds up it will be all of one type, electrons. Now the electrons repel each other and therefor move in a circular motion with the spark gap as the center. They strike the surface of the sphere and tunnel through to the outside surface where they reside. The amount of charge at any one point is related to the curvature of the surface at that point. Since a sphere is constant curvature the charge will be evenly distributed. It will continue to build up so long as you supply power to the spark gap. In an ideal world it will get bigger and bigger. In the real world at some point insulation breaks down and normal current flow takes place. As to the 3 Laws of Thermodynamics, you should use Heinz Pagels (RIP) as they are much funnier and a lot easier to understand and apply: 1. You can't break even 2. You can't get ahead 3. You can't quit the game ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Nov 5 18:01:01 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:01:01 +0800 Subject: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd) Message-ID: <199811060134.TAA15903@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: Matthew James Gering > Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone > (fwd) > Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 13:52:14 -0800 > > Yes, they are. Can you say 'taxes'? > > Imposed by a gun. Don't try to change the subject. Just because you don't find taxes worthwhile doesn't mean others do as well. My bitch is about the amount and the way it's legislated, not about paying them. I'd sure as hell rather pay taxes for police, fire, ems, etc. than try to deal with that all myself. If that were the case we wouldn't have a very high level of society since nobody would have time to run businesses, write great books, make movies, develop computers, etc. They'd be too damn busy sneaking up on the deer or shooting/stealing their neighbors food/wife. > > Can you say 'interstate commerce'? > > What about it? It's one of the defining characteristics that allow a government to be a economic factor in the economic system, contrary to the original thesis. > > Can you say 'mint money'? Can you say 'federal reserve'? > > Can you say government fiat? Can you say fucked up non-working economy if there isn't some standardization of monetary systems? I can see it now if folks like you get your way. When I go to Louisiana I'll need a whole new currency that I can't trade my Texas money for. Yep, that's an optimal way to run an economy. > > Can you say 'FDIC'? > > Can you say banking regulation at the point of a gun? Don't change the subject (again). > The Soviet Union is a prime recent example. How? > British Mercantilism. How? > Governments are ultimately bound to economics in the sense of human behavior > and productivity -- the more they deny the nature of microeconomic actors, > the quicker they self-destruct. Economics *is* human behaviour, the science is the tools that we use to describe what happens *after* the fact and if we're right we might even be able to make some small usable predictions about what people in a gross level will do in the future. If you are trying to extend economics to the extent of trying to predict the micro-economic actions of individuals then you don't understand macro or micro economics very well. > History shows that every dynasty well eventually self-destruct, to think > ours won't is foolish. Everything self desctructs at one point or another. Besides this issue is irrelevant and immaterial to whether it is legitimate to consider a government as an economic partner in a economic system, and whether that model for government includes aspects normaly thought of as being a commercial enterprise. Again, stay on topic. > My point is we don't have competitive governments per > se You are lost in a dream world, all government are competitive. Ask Clinton, Hussein, Pinochet, Netanyahuh, etc. Why? Because people are competitive, it's the way biology works. >, you have a power void that is filled by new government that can be just > as hostile to those microeconomic actors. All our government failures have > yet to produce a sustainable government. It never happens that way. The *only* time you have a power void is when there are no governments in the first place. Once they are established other governments and systems move in to take over the territory. It's quite biological (which shouldn't surprise anyone) in its behaviour. Usualy a government ceases because another government (whether internal or external is irrelevant to the point at hand) moves in and destroys the base of the original government. It might be by force but the fall of the CCCP clearly indicates that we are seeing governments change their systems radicaly without the violence, destruction, and death that historicaly such changes have required. The fall of the CCCP is a watershed event because it indicates that government systems can in fact change without these effects, that is a very hopeful sign. > > False distinction. Politics is about control and power > > The fundamental laws of economics are supply and demand. As soon as you > through force into the equation, it is no longer economic, it is political. No, the fundamental law of economics is greed/desire/want/etc. Supply and demand is how we describe the consequences of the flow of goods and services. Now exactly why you're bringing up economics when the issue in this case was the base motivations of politics smacks of a strawman. > > in human society that breaks down to force and money. > > The essence of money has no political roots. The essence of money is human > productivity and trade. Oh baloney. There are two aspects of organized human society (ie politics). Self-defence and self-sufficiency. The first requires brute force and the second requires some mechanism of trade. For a society to get very large at all *requires* a generalization of the barter system to a symbolic one, that symbol is money. > Money is tied to politics currently because it is regulated by force of > government and the money *supply* is created by government fiat. First, the money supply was created by a popular vote, not a government fiat because there was no government to execute the fiat at the time. Now as to money being tied to politics, see the paragraph above. > > There you go again, confusing privacy with economics... > > The discussion *was* *privacy*, No, the discussion was the viability of modeling a government as a economic entity within the economic system of a geographic region and what that meant. There was also a side issue relating privacy and freedom to anarchy. > discussion? Privacy (as opposed to secrecy) is about discretionary > disclosure of information. No, that is respect for privacy. Secrecy is the intentional act of hiding information that one doesn't want others to discover, not the same horse at all. > To invade privacy is to remove or prevent that > discretion. No, to invade privacy is to disrespect it. Discretion is knowing when to do it and not get caught. > There is an economic cost of doing so, and an economic benefit. Not necessarily. I can invade my childrens privacy and there is no economic cost or benefit. My neighbor can rifle my mail and there is no cost one way or the other (unless they steal my paycheck and that's a whole nother issue). The government could tap my phone and there would be no economic impact. Privacy does not require the issue of economics to brought into it until we begin to discuss economic strategies. It is the issue of money that brings privacy into the discussion and not the other way around. > Corporations are bound by those economics, whereas government can mandate > transparency by whim and gun. No, it is clear that governments are bound by the will of their citizens, their economy, geography, and their technology. They are not omnipotent. > > True, but that isn't a function of regulation per se only the > > particular type of regulation that we have implimented. > > It is the *nature* of regulation. No it isn't. I regulate my dogs behavior and don't use force. Football games are regulated by rules and they aren't imposed by force. The way my company works is very regulated but there is no force involved. No, regulation does not automaticaly imply force. Where force comes into play is when the issue being regulated effects many individuals and some of those individuals want the benefits but don't want to pay the costs. They want a free ride at others expense. > Government is a natural instrument of collective legalized force by any This is a non-sequetar, governments define legality they are not defined by it. There isn't some outside agency that defines what a government will do, it's internal to the government and its participants. > group that can influence it, and to think it can't and won't be influenced > denies human nature in regards to power. Yeah, so. I don't believe this is relevant since we all agree on this. It's a function of human nature to try to get in a position of special favor so at least some rules don't apply to you. It's a competitive advantage. > Every government is despotic by > nature, force corrupts. People are corruptable, governments are simply the framework they create to express it. > > No, they don't. It is perfectly legal for an individual to > > own a weapon. > > The legal monopoly on the *initiation* of force. I got news for you dude, I catch you in my truck after dark or running down the street with my property I'm perfectly within my rights to initiate force. > And in fact you have very > little freedom (eternally diminishing) to obtain potential force (arms) and > use it in a *reactionary* manner. You mean in an insiteful manner. You aren't talking about reacting to something you're veiled comment is to allow yourself for example to buy a weapon and kill me (for example) simply because you're pissed off about something. It surprises you that I and others won't give you that freedom? > You have absolutely *no* freedom to use it > reactionary against government (which is in the face of the 4th). ARTICLE IV. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. That in fact does allow you to shoot somebody if they enter your home illegaly, even a police officer. If you're being raped and shoot a cop it's perfectly legal. If he's beating the shit out of you it's perfectly legal to defend yourself, even to the point of killing the officer. The problem is your not wanting to use it in immediate self-defence, you're talking about going out and mowing people down simply because your pissed off at what they stand for and you can't get your way. Your pissed off, like all anarchist, that you can't take advantage of people with impunity. A childish and petulant view. I'm going to stop now since the rest of your email is more of the same. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Nov 5 18:15:27 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:15:27 +0800 Subject: Who Cares (fwd) Message-ID: <199811060150.TAA15968@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 11:00:10 -0500 > From: Petro > Subject: Re: Who Cares (fwd) > While I won't deny that some of the people who don't vote are in > the position you claim they are, their not voting has nothing to do with > their economic position, it has to do with the facts that: Many of the people are in that situation. Most people don't vote for two reasons: 1. It won't significantly effect their lives one way or the other 2. They don't have time, or at least don't believe they have time. > 1) This is a mid-term election. Since it isn't a presidential > election, fewer really care to research the issues (which are fewer). Yeah, why? (hint: see 1.) > 2) We are currently in decent economic times, and as Terry Pratchet > noted on Men At Arms, (paraphrasing here) Most people don't really care > about democrazy, Equal Rights, or any of that, they just want tomorrow to > be exactly like today. Then Terry Pratchet is an idiot. People don't want it to stay the same, they want it to get better. They want more money, a bigger house, better clothes, a cooler car, etc. If you and Terry seriously don't believe folks understand democracy (though they may not act the way you want them to in expressing it) then you should spend some time talking to people and askign them how much they would take to get rid of the Constitution, allow cops to wander through their homes at will, etc. You're both in for a very rude surprise. > 3) As Jimmy notes, there usually isn't much of a difference between > one canidate and the other (outside of the Natural Law types), and those > canidates who _are_ different (Libertarians, Socialists &etc. ("reform" > types don't count, they really are for making tomorrow just like yesterday > & today, only they ADMIT it for the most part)) either don't get enough > votes to challenge the status quo, or if there is an issue that will > challenge the status quo, the number of voters tends to increase (to > varying degrees). True, though I'd say the reason that we don't have a more diverse political venue is because we don't have proportional seating in the various houses. That was a fundamental fault with the founding fathers, they misunderstood the homogeneity of peoples view. Of course they didn't have a clue about television and such causing a global homogeniety. But then again, that is our cross to bear in living up to 'a more perfect union'. The one unifying aspect that amazes me about many of you folks on this mailing list is your complete lack of understanding of your own duty and responsibilities in this government. You bitch and bitch and yammer about what's wrong but you have no desire to fix it, your so focused on initiating violence it's pathetic. When the Constitutuion was written the job was just begun, it wasn't finished as you seem to imply. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Thu Nov 5 18:16:49 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:16:49 +0800 Subject: Who Cares (fwd) Message-ID: <199811060151.TAA16014@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:49:53 -0500 > From: Petro > Subject: Re: Who Cares > The fact that it is meaningful to you means you will never (as long > as it is meaningful to you) get anywhere as a politician, as you still > actively beleive that a politican is there to do the will of the people. Politicians are, unfortunately the problem is the people who becom politicians. > This can be demonstrated to be a false assumption. We're waiting.... ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From mlanett at meer.net Thu Nov 5 18:32:48 1998 From: mlanett at meer.net (Mark Lanett) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:32:48 +0800 Subject: Holloween II: Microsoft Plugs Linux Message-ID: <003f01be092a$5ee1b800$692856cf@frohike.novita.com> From: Anonymous > By the standards of the ... developer accustomed to VB [Visual > Basic], these tools are incredibly primitive." How strange! I just talked about that paragraph with a friend of mine and he missed the EXACT same key words that you did. You LEFT OUT THE KEY WORDS! The actual message said: >By the standards of the novice / intermediate developer accustomed to VB/VS/VC/VJ, these tools are incredibly >primitive. Which is completely correct. What I replied to the buddy: Well they *are* [primitive]. You have to write a MAKEFILE for crying out loud. You can't go from error messages to the source code / line in your editor (unless you use Emacs). It's so stupid. Someone could write a simple (scratch-itch) OSS IDE and dominate the market in no time. The funny thing is that this was the DOS situation... MS hasn't been out of "primitive" for that long itself. Of course for experienced developers, GCC's 140 platforms (w/ cross-compiling) and optimizations and all is killer. But what's the ratio of less experienced to sophisticated developers? ~mark From hallam at ai.mit.edu Thu Nov 5 18:39:49 1998 From: hallam at ai.mit.edu (Phillip Hallam-Baker) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:39:49 +0800 Subject: Digicash bankruptcy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002401be092a$35bb5b20$bf011712@games> Phil is right in much of what he says but in a couple of cases he is wrong. Regarding the 'vortex of buzz technologies', VRML, network computers and push are certainly not hot properties at the moment, neither is interactive TV - but the Web was designed as the antithesis of Interactive TV. The root failure of Interactive TV was the assumption that the world wanted to spend its time passively consuming the dross pumped out through a 1000 channel 120" TV which would dominate the home. I would also like to add Java onto the pile. Java today is simply what C++ should have been. It does not revolutionize the programming industry, it simply provides what some people think is an object oriented programming environment and removes some of the worst legacy clutter of C. Cryptographic payment systems are here - in the form of credit card transactions over SSL. The main problem with SET and its competitors is that SSL works a little too well. That is not to say that there is no future for SET. SSL and credit cards are unlikely to make the leap from the consumer market to the business to business market. SET provides an ideal platform to integrate the use of the credit card infrastructure for business payments. The other area where I would disagree is over protocols. HTTP is quite radically different to FTP in that it is a computer client to computer server protocol. The metaphor of FTP is rumaging through a filing cabinet. The HTTP and Web mechanism employs a locator. Admittedly there was nothing to stop a text mode Web being created in 1982 but nobody did so. What is true is that the time taken for Internet technologies to move to market is very slow. Much of the HTTP technology that just reached the market was proposed in '92 and '93. Finaly I have difficulty regarding Digicash as being all that socially responsible. Chaum's problems had a lot to do with the business terms he insisted on. What he had was a technology which allowed an improvement to a payment system. He imagined he had a monopoly on the only feasible solution. He was very baddly mistaken. The monopoly rents he demanded were more than the market was willing to pay for a working and deployed system - let alone for a patent license. Phill From prize at survey.com Thu Nov 5 19:02:01 1998 From: prize at survey.com (prize at survey.com) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 11:02:01 +0800 Subject: Holiday Shopping Survey And Contest Message-ID: <199811051834.SAA16328@survey.survey.com> Dear Internet User, The holiday season will soon be upon us. Will you be making your list and checking it twice online? We're curious about what role, if any, the Internet will play in your holiday plans this year. Share your opinions with us and you could win a free Talking Tommy (from hit Rugrats' TV Show) or Talking Teletubby toy (from popular PBS show). To join in the holiday fun, go to the survey at: http://www.survey.com/holshopsur.html Be sure to include your email address at the end of the survey so we can enter your name in the drawing. It is not required that any information be provided other than your email address for you to be entered into the drawing. A complete list of contest rules is attached to the survey. We will be happy to let you know when the results are ready. Happy Holidays and good luck on the drawing! Greg Harmon Director of Research World Research From sjl at sjl.net Thu Nov 5 20:10:09 1998 From: sjl at sjl.net (Scott Loftesness) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:10:09 +0800 Subject: Digicash bankruptcy In-Reply-To: <002401be092a$35bb5b20$bf011712@games> Message-ID: <004d01be0937$e147c160$0300a8c0@sjl4120> > Phillip Hallam-Baker > Sent: Thursday, November 05, 1998 6:08 PM > Subject: RE: Digicash bankruptcy ... > Finaly I have difficulty regarding Digicash as being all that socially > responsible. Chaum's problems had a lot to do with the business terms > he insisted on. What he had was a technology which allowed an improvement > to a payment system. He imagined he had a monopoly on the only feasible > solution. He was very baddly mistaken. The monopoly rents he demanded > were more than the market was willing to pay for a working and deployed > system - let alone for a patent license. Where does the "monopoly rents" comment come from? In other words, on what basis are you making that statement? Scott From hallam at ai.mit.edu Thu Nov 5 20:15:36 1998 From: hallam at ai.mit.edu (Phillip Hallam-Baker) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:15:36 +0800 Subject: Digicash bankruptcy In-Reply-To: <004d01be0937$e147c160$0300a8c0@sjl4120> Message-ID: <002701be0939$b34ce720$bf011712@games> > > Finaly I have difficulty regarding Digicash as being all that socially > > responsible. Chaum's problems had a lot to do with the business terms > > he insisted on. What he had was a technology which allowed an > improvement > > to a payment system. He imagined he had a monopoly on the only feasible > > solution. He was very baddly mistaken. The monopoly rents he demanded > > were more than the market was willing to pay for a working and deployed > > system - let alone for a patent license. > > Where does the "monopoly rents" comment come from? > > In other words, on what basis are you making that statement? Chaum's reported demands for patent licensing fees were consistently above 10-20% of the service revenue plus a significant up front fee. Those levels are more usually associate with a monopolistic patent, hence 'monopoly rent'. The fact that Chaum didn't have the monopoly he appeared to imagine is probably why nobody was queuing up to pay his demands. Phill From rah at shipwright.com Thu Nov 5 20:51:29 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:51:29 +0800 Subject: FYI: Digicash bankruptcy Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text From: "Thomas Junker" To: dbs at philodox.com Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 21:32:24 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: FYI: Digicash bankruptcy Reply-to: Thomas Junker Priority: normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Subscribe: X-Web-Archive: http://www.philodox.com/dbs-archive/ On 5 Nov 98, at 14:32, Nahum Goldmann quoted Phil Agre as having writ: > [With the bankruptcy of Digicash, it is time to assemble the definitive > list of underperforming Internet technologies. The received wisdom is > that the Internet lies at the vortex of a historically unprecedented era > of intensive and disruptive technological change. A sober reading of the > evidence, however, supports something much closer to the opposite thesis, > viz, the Internet is a modest and useful new tool that, despite itself, > has given rise to an astonishingly wasteful mania whereby perfectly good > capital is plowed into one ill-conceived technology after another. Is Agre a friend of Metcalfe? One wrings his hands over what other people choose to risk their money on in Internet technology development and the other solemnly predicts that the Internet will implode. If those two guys ever get together, the ambient lumens will dim for miles around. NRO will be repositioning satellites to check out the grey hole of pessimism laying like a blanket over their meeting place. > So right now would be an excellent time > for us to renounce the false idea that we are living in a time of > unprecedented technical change. Yeah, right. Listen to this guy and die. That's his message. > ...it is running behind the penetration rates that > earlier technologies such as the radio and gas cooking achieved once they > started being adopted on a mass scale... Had this guy been commenting back then, he would no doubt have been wringing his hands over all the silly things being done with radio and all the failed ideas and ventures. Checking out those future-fantasy clips from the '50's is instructive... I *still* don't have a kitchen or bathroom as spiffy as what they were telling everyone they would have a few short years -- I don't have a constant-temperature shower or cleverly designed foldaway shelves, tables, trays and ironing boards hidden in every nook and cranny of the kitchen. In fact, looking at one of those on video got me in the mood to go back 40 years so I could look forward to having those neat things. More importantly, though, as great as the utility of radio has been in many areas, it has mostly been a one-way incoming pipe for the average person. Its greatest utility value in that mode has probably been news delivery, but that is highly overrated. If you tune out the news in all forms for two weeks, you will be a lot less stressed and realize that, by and large, what makes the news doesn't care a whit about you, and if you con't care a whit about the news, no pieces of the sky fall in. If radio hadn't been regulated as badly and suffocatingly as it was, and if people without propellors on their heads could have used it to communicate with friends and associates over long distances instead of waiting for telephone operators to call them back to tell them a trunk had become available for their annual long distance call to Mamain Toledo, perhaps radio would have had a hugely greater impact than it did. Radio came, radio was monopolized, and it became just another flavor of newspaper or magazine. Now gas, there's a revolutionary development! Convenient, yes. Revolutionary, no. Were we able to cook before gas? Were we able to heat before gas? Did gas mean that Father no longer had to trek to an office or factory to earn his living? Were we suddenly able to shuttle business documents back and forth between Passaic, New Jersey and Jakarta at zero incremental cost? Did gas perhaps enable millions of people to shift their modes of work and cut the ties with fixed offices? Maybe gas enabled multimedia communication, as in Smell-o-Vision? Geez! So it was convenient. So lots of people rushed out and utilized it in a short time. So? What did it change? It may have made some industrial processes cheaper or more feasible. It made some very uninteresting aspects of life less time and attention consuming. > Internet protocols that we use today are unchanged in their essentials > from about 1982. Isn't that like denigrating all of wheeled transport by pointing out that gee, the wheels we use today are unchanged in their essentials from about 4000 B.C. (or whenever)? And your point is...? > In fact, once the real history of this era is written, I > think that 1982 will shape up as the true annus mirabilis, and 1994 will > simply be seen as the era when the innovations of ten to fifteen years > earlier finally caught public attention and reached the price point that > was needed to achieve the network externalities required for its large- > scale adoption. Can you spell M-O-S-A-I-C? > If we get out the rake and drag away all of the detritus > of the underperforming technologies that I listed above, and compare our > times on an apples-for-apples basis with other periods of technological > innovation -- including the Depression era, for heaven's sake -- then I > think we will have a much healthier perspective going forward. Yes indeedy, that's what we should all do when we need a lift -- drag out Dad's or Grandpa's Depression scrapbook and get some *real* perspective! That'll drive out that pesky optimism and make us thankful for not having to run down the road chasing the family farm as it blows away in the wind. Yessirree, those pics of Uncle Dwork selling apples will straighten us right up and dispel those silly fantasies of interconnecting the world, working from Tahiti, or making a killing with a killer Internet app. There oughta be a law! It should be illegal to offend good, pessimistic outlooks by running around in circles showering ideas and developments like sparks. > As it is, > people the world over have been propagandized into a state of panic, one > that encourages them to abandon all of their experience and common sense > and buy lots of computer equipment so that they will not be scorned by > their children and left behind by the apocalypse Where does this guy *get* this stuff? How many people do we *know* who fit this description, hmmm? Even one? Well, OK, but Aunt Mabel doesn't count -- she invested in bull semen, too, though we all thought she did it with just a tad too much enthusiasm. > The sad line-up of underperforming technologies should be > understood not as serious attempts at innovation but as a kind of ritual, > an expensive and counterproductive substitute for the chants and dances > that healthy societies perform when they are placed under stress. Maybe > once we get some healthy rituals for contending with technological change > ourselves, we will be able to snap out of our trance, cast off the > ridiculous hopes and fears of an artificially induced millennium, and take > up the serious work of discussing, organizing, and contesting the major > choices about our institutions that lie ahead.] Oh, geez, I can hear this now, around 1725 or 1750... people in England and on the continent, naysaying the wild and wooly schemes and hopes for opportunity and fortune in the new world. It must be part of the curse of the human condition that we have to have gloomy people like this hanging on the coattails of invention, being dragged kicking and screaming into a future they cannot avoid no matter *how* loudly they complain. Regards, Thomas Junker tjunker at phoenix.net http://www.phoenix.net/~tjunker/wang.html The Unofficial Wang VS Information Center --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From narry at geocities.com Thu Nov 5 21:26:02 1998 From: narry at geocities.com (Narayan Raghu) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:26:02 +0800 Subject: new 448 bit key by Indian firm In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3641D5F0.8DFAE64C@geocities.com> Bill Stewart wrote: > > At 03:43 AM 11/3/98 +0530, Narayan Raghu wrote: > > Indian firm unveils 448-bit encryption > > 448 bits sounds a lot like MD5-based encryption - perhaps Luby-Rackoff > or MDC? > Or a homegrown system, doing successive MD5s or something? > MD5 is no longer the safest hash these days.... > > Thanks! > Bill Nopes. It's an implementation of blowfish. you might get some info at www.signotron.com the guy at the fair claimed that it's the strongest existing implementation of cryptography available in the world to date .. and he was no "sales" guy - seemed technical enough ... what this s/w seems to be doing is that it gets into ur windows OS, (works ONLY on windows) and everytime you "save" a file, it captures it, encrypts it, and stores it .. so nothing on your disc is ever left unencrypted. ofcourse there must be a lot of such packages in the US .. but the novelty here, according to this guy was that it was developed outside the US, and it's price (USD 40) .... rgds nar From mgering at ecosystems.net Thu Nov 5 21:43:13 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:43:13 +0800 Subject: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd) Message-ID: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B253@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com> > > > Yes, they are. Can you say 'taxes'? > > > > Imposed by a gun. > > Don't try to change the subject. I'm not, taxes are a political transaction, I must pay them whether or not I demand the service or disservice I receive for them -- taxes are not bound by supply and demand. > It's one of the defining characteristics that allow a > government to be a economic factor in the economic system It is the defining excuse for the FEDERAL government to interfere with the economic system. > > > Can you say 'mint money'? Can you say 'federal reserve'? > > > > Can you say government fiat? > > Can you say fucked up non-working economy if there isn't some > standardization of monetary systems? I can see it now if > folks like you get your way. Try studying the free banking era of the Mid 1800's, or the international exchange markets. > When I go to Louisiana I'll need a whole new > currency that I can't trade my Texas money for. Why can't you trade your Texas money? Who is to prevent you? Who is to prevent other from meeting the exchange demand? Who it so prevent people from accepting it in trade? Clearly with the digitization of money, multiple currencies are not a problem. > > > Can you say 'FDIC'? > > > > Can you say banking regulation at the point of a gun? > > Don't change the subject (again). I'm not, the gun is the defining characteristic that makes it political and not economic. > > The Soviet Union is a prime recent example. > > How? Self-destructed command economy that created prices by fiat instead of obeying market economics. > > British Mercantilism. > > How? Self-destructed empire (starting with our war of independence) by creating artificial trade barriers between the colonies to reap artificial profits at the colonies expense (which was really at the heart of the revolution, not taxation nor representation). > Economics *is* human behaviour Let's expand the definition to the point it has no meaning. No thank you. Economics is production and trade; human behavior affects trade, it is not economics. > If you are trying to extend economics to the > extent of trying to predict the micro-economic actions of > individuals then you don't understand macro or micro > economics very well. You can predict the actions of groups of individuals if you understand the nature of individuals. Predicting an individual is left to the soothsayers. > No, the fundamental law of economics is > greed/desire/want/etc. Okay, you take your laws of greed/want/desire and figure out how to sustain life. > Self-defence and self-sufficiency. The first requires brute > force and the second requires some mechanism of trade. No, self-sufficiency by its definition means you are...well...sufficient by yourself. If you require trade, you are no longer self-sufficient. > symbol is money. Money either has intrinsic value, or it is a symbol and debt against something held of value, or it is a debt on the future acquisition of value produced by someone else -- i.e. future productivity. > First, the money supply was created by a popular vote, not a > government fiat Oh, please do tell when/where this popular vote took place. We've moved from intrinsic value currency to a currency representing hard value (gold) to something that represents nothing more than faith of government, and whose supply is controlled by fiat of a *private* institution -- the Federal Reserve Board. > > discussion? Privacy (as opposed to secrecy) is about discretionary > > disclosure of information. Discretion by you of the disclosure by you of information about you. Make sense? The other type of privacy, somehow preventing other people from disclosing information about you by means other than mutual agreement is privacy of the statist type. > > There is an economic cost of doing so, and an economic benefit. > > The government could tap my phone and there would be > no economic impact. No cost, eh? I suggest you take a look at the congressional allocations for FBI wiretapping capabilities. > No, regulation does not automaticaly imply force. Correct -- in fact the only regulations by private individuals/entities that *do* have force behind them is that of the custodian/dependent relationship, and they are limited. But find a government regulation that does not have the confiscation of your property (by force) and/or incarceration of your person (by force) as the absolute finality to non-compliance. They are few. > Yeah, so. I don't believe this is relevant since we all agree > on this. Oh, I forgot if you agree it irrelevant because you are simply being entirely combative. > I got news for you dude, I catch you in my truck after dark > or running down the street with my property I'm perfectly > within my rights to initiate force. But you are not the initiator, you are reacting to my initiation of a force (or derivative), in this case trespass and theft. > You mean in an insiteful manner. You aren't talking > about reacting to something you're veiled comment is No, force in reaction to force. That is plainly simple. > > You have absolutely *no* freedom to use it > > reactionary against government (which is in the face of the 4th). Brain fart, the 2nd. The right to bears arms has historically implied the right to bear arms in defense against a despot. Matt From nobody at replay.com Thu Nov 5 21:54:43 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:54:43 +0800 Subject: Holloween II: Microsoft Plugs Linux In-Reply-To: <003f01be092a$5ee1b800$692856cf@frohike.novita.com> Message-ID: <199811060531.GAA00781@replay.com> >>>>> Mark Lanett writes: >> By the standards of the novice / intermediate developer >> accustomed to VB/VS/VC/VJ, these tools are incredibly >> primitive. > Which is completely correct... Perhaps I missed the part of Visual Basic that was supposed to be "incredibly" less "primitive" than GCC and PERL. Unfortunately, I have to actually *use* VB5 for my employer (who will remain nameless, other than to say that they're one of the world's largest electronics manufacturers, and firmly in bed with Micro$oft). So far as I have been able to discern, its only advantage is the ability to prototype screens quickly. When it comes to actually *debugging*, any reasonably large program causes enough system crashes that you've got to try to build mini test environments to test out individual pieces. (Yup, it's exactly as good a programming environment as M$ Word is a desktop publishing environment.) Sure, GCC is just a compiler. But my combination of GCC, DDD, and XEmacs provide a development environment that is more powerful than any of Microsoft's products, as easy to use, and is just as "mouse- friendly". (Hell, I use GCC instead of VC for NT code, too.) Maybe I've been out of the "novice" stage for too long to understand the attraction of VB. But the other hardware engineers (certainly novice programmers) in this group won't touch it except at gunpoint either. But its use -- like that of NT itself -- has been mandated from above by beancounters and IT managers. -- CurmudgeonMonger From informer at earthlink.net Fri Nov 6 14:42:25 1998 From: informer at earthlink.net (informer at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 14:42:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199811062242.OAA04144@toad.com> 11/06/98 INTERNET NEWS:BUSINESS WIRE 2:36pm EST Re:21st Century Frontier Group, Inc. Nasdaq OTC:"TCFG" TCFG strikes $150mm deal with Sumitomo Bank, Japans' 2nd largest bank for construction of 6 hotels and casinos, the first of which to be built in San Juan, Puerto Rico! From frantz at netcom.com Fri Nov 6 00:54:13 1998 From: frantz at netcom.com (Bill Frantz) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 16:54:13 +0800 Subject: TEMPEST laptops In-Reply-To: <199811052109.WAA21423@replay.com> Message-ID: Not exactly a laptop thing, but it occurs to me that you might be able to get destructive interference of the signal waves from a monitor by running two monitors, and sending inverse signals to each. If we assume the signal is 100MHz, that means a wavelength of 3 meters. You probably need small monitors close together. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | Macintosh: Didn't do every-| Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | thing right, but did know | 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz at netcom.com | the century would end. | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA From x at x.com Fri Nov 6 00:57:09 1998 From: x at x.com (x) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 16:57:09 +0800 Subject: Netscape inside scoop on "Smart Browsing" Message-ID: <3.0.32.19981106004101.0071a044@shell15.ba.best.com> Natrificial's "Brain" product did the same thing, silently, or at least via a nonobvious option setting that was not explicitly documented. The transmittal of all your URL's to the mother ship was how they would inform you that you were hitting a page specially enabled for their S/W. Totally unnecessary, as the page, if so enabled, would be perfectly capable of notifying the browser with the addition of a trivial plugin, e.g. or other thing. I raised the issue of disclosing this kind of thing and got the usual "we're technology users too and we'd NEVER do anything with that information..." response, like it's no big deal. I stopped using and recommending the product, even though it looked like with the proper option setting I would no longer be reporting my bizarre habits to Natrificial. This shit's outta hand ..... >> * IS SMART BROWSING REALLY SO SMART? >> (contributed by Mark Joseph Edwards, http://www.ntsecurity.net) >> Many of you are aware of Netscape's new versions of its Navigator Web >> browser. But do you also know that, starting with version 4.06, the >> product's Smart Browsing feature can report to Netscape every Web page >> you visit, including addresses to private sites on your internal >> network? And are you aware that when you download a secure version of >> Netscape's browser, the process places a cookie on your system that can ... etc ... >> > >Rick Desautels >Sr. Systems Engineer >Rival Computer Solutions >rivalcs at ma.ultranet.com > > >-- >To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to majordomo at blu.org >with the following text in the *body* (*not* the subject line) of the letter: >unsubscribe isig > >--- end forwarded text > > >----------------- >Robert A. Hettinga >Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism >44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA >"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, >[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to >experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' > > > From bill.stewart at pobox.com Fri Nov 6 02:13:08 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 18:13:08 +0800 Subject: US Cyberthreat Policy In-Reply-To: <199811051449.JAA12327@camel8.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981105012448.0094c240@idiom.com> At 04:37 PM 11/5/98 -0500, Ken Williams wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >Kenneth A. Minihan and George J. Tenet Elected to America Online, Inc. >Board of Directors >New Board Members Hail From NSA and CIA Yee-hah!!! Happy Guy Fawkes Day!!! Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From prize at survey.com Fri Nov 6 02:16:04 1998 From: prize at survey.com (prize at survey.com) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 18:16:04 +0800 Subject: Holiday Shopping Survey And Contest Message-ID: <199811051834.SAA16334@survey.survey.com> Dear Internet User, The holiday season will soon be upon us. Will you be making your list and checking it twice online? We're curious about what role, if any, the Internet will play in your holiday plans this year. Share your opinions with us and you could win a free Talking Tommy (from hit Rugrats' TV Show) or Talking Teletubby toy (from popular PBS show). To join in the holiday fun, go to the survey at: http://www.survey.com/holshopsur.html Be sure to include your email address at the end of the survey so we can enter your name in the drawing. It is not required that any information be provided other than your email address for you to be entered into the drawing. A complete list of contest rules is attached to the survey. We will be happy to let you know when the results are ready. Happy Holidays and good luck on the drawing! Greg Harmon Director of Research World Research From rah at shipwright.com Fri Nov 6 05:31:42 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 21:31:42 +0800 Subject: My first order of Business (http://www.jesseventura.org/bbs/messages/3052.html) (fwd) Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 06:56:20 -0500 Reply-To: Law & Policy of Computer Communications Sender: Law & Policy of Computer Communications From: Robbin Stewart Subject: My first order of Business (http://www.jesseventura.org/bbs/messages/3052.html) (fwd) Comments: To: robbin stewart To: CYBERIA-L at LISTSERV.AOL.COM It appears that we've found a solution to spam. Somebody sent "make money fast" type post to Jesse's web-based bulliten board and got the following response. Forwarded message: > Subject: My first order of Business >(http://www.jesseventura.org/bbs/messages/3052.html) > > My first order of Business > > > [ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ jesseventura Message Board ] > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------= > ------- > > Posted by Jesse Ventura on November 06, 1998 at 02:03:38: > > In Reply to: $$ posted by $$ on November 06, 1998 at 01:05:44: > > Is to rid the internet of spammers like this JERK. By the way we have = > your IP and your interner provider will be contacted, enjoy your 6X9 = > cell.=20 > --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Fri Nov 6 05:32:28 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 21:32:28 +0800 Subject: RSA Seeks Nominees for Awards & $10K Honors Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text X-Sender: vin at shell1.shore.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 01:27:20 -0500 To: "John Young" , "Dave Farber" From: Vin McLellan Subject: RSA Seeks Nominees for Awards & $10K Honors Cc: cryptography at c2.net Sender: bounce-dcsb at ai.mit.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Vin McLellan RSA Data Security invites industry and political activists, netizens, and scholars to nominate individuals who should be honored for their "outstanding contributions" to the field of cryptography. RSADSI annually awards three US$10,000 prizes to innovators and leaders in the fields of Mathematics, Public Policy, and Industry. The final selection is by a panel of academic and industry experts, but the nomination process is open to all. Nominations for the 1999 Awards can be made directly at anytime before 12/4/98. "The RSA Award in Mathematics recognizes innovation and ongoing contributions to the field of cryptography. The Committee seeks to reward nominees who are pioneers in their field, and whose work has applied value." Nominees should be affiliated with universities or research labs. The 1998 winner of the RSA Math Award was Dr. Shafrira Goldwasser, who was also named to the RSA Professorship at MIT last year. Prof. Goldwasser's pioneering work in number theory, complexity, and cryptography has also won MIT's Grace Murray Hopper Award and the first Godel Prize. Congressman Bob Goodlatte (R-VA) -- primary sponsor of HR 696, the Security and Freedom Thru Encryption (SAFE) Act -- was the 1998 winner of the RSA Public Policy Award. This prize seeks to honor elected or appointed officials, or activists associated with public interest groups, who have made a "significant contribution" to the American policy debate about cryptography over the previous calendar year. The RSA Award for Industry seeks to honor individuals or organizations which have made outstanding contributions in commercial applications of crypto -- "particularly those that provide clear value to the end users" -- and demonstrated "ongoing innovation in their technology and products." The 1998 winner was Netscape, source of SSL and a steady steam of clever innovations for the denizens of the web. Taher ElGamal accepted for Netscape. The three winners for 1999 will be announced at the 1999 RSA Data Security Conference, which (having outgrown Nob Hill, to the regret of many) is being held in San Jose, January 17-21. See: ----- Vin McLellan + The Privacy Guild + 53 Nichols St., Chelsea, MA 02150 USA <617> 884-5548 -- <@><@> -- For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to "dcsb-request at ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help". --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Fri Nov 6 05:37:06 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 21:37:06 +0800 Subject: Nov. 8 column - stop and search Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:44:48 -0700 Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 23:42:03 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: vin at dali.lvrj.com Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vinsends at ezlink.com From: Vin_Suprynowicz at lvrj.com (Vin Suprynowicz) Subject: Nov. 8 column - stop and search Resent-From: vinsends at ezlink.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/585 X-Loop: vinsends at ezlink.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vinsends-request at ezlink.com FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE DATED NOV. 8, 1998 THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz To enhance officer safety and convenience Fortunately, even the most traditionally "law-and-order" members of the U.S. Supreme Court seemed both surprised and skeptical Tuesday when confronted with the broad discretion which Iowa now grants its police to search drivers pulled over for routine traffic violations ... even without any "probable cause" to believe a further crime has been committed. Appellant Patrick Knowles was stopped for speeding on March 6, 1996, in Newton, Iowa. An officer gave Knowles a speeding ticket and then informed him he had a right to search Knowles and his cart, which the cop proceeded to do. The search turned up a pipe and a small quantity of marijuana, which Iowa courts allowed to be used as evidence. Knowles was convicted and sentenced to 90 days in jail, but is now appealing based on the Constitution's Fourth Amendment protection against unreasonable searches. "If somebody jaywalks, the police could search them?" asked Justice John Paul Stevens. "Correct," explained Iowa Assistant Attorney General Bridget A. Chambers. Justice Antonin Scalia then asked Ms. Chambers whether an officer could stop someone, arrest and search them, and then drop the arrest. Yes, she said. "Wow," the justice responded. The record of the initial court case reveals that arresting Officer Ronald Cook was "disarmingly candid" on the subject of probable cause, in the phrase of long-term court watcher James J. Kilpatrick. "Anything you observed lead you to believe or give you probable cause to believe that he was involved in criminal activity?" the officer was asked. "Not on this date, no," he responded. "It was your understanding that simply because you had issued him a citation that that gave you the right to search him and his vehicle?" "Yes, ma'am." About 400,000 people are given traffic tickets each year in Iowa, Knowles' lawyer, Paul Rosenberg, told the high court Tuesday. But police invoke their authority to conduct searches only selectively, since if everyone given a traffic ticket were searched, "the people wouldn't stand for it." Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist reminded the parties that police already have authority to conduct a search following an arrest, to protect their own safety and to preserve evidence. But regarding a need to preserve evidence, the chief justice added, "When you have a traffic stop, you're not going to find any more evidence of speeding when you search a person's car." The Supreme Court's 1973 decision allows police to conduct a "search incident to arrest," noted Justice Anthony M. Kennedy. But "You want to turn it around and have an arrest incident to search. ... It seems to me that would be an abuse of authority." "It does seem an enormous amount of authority to put into the hands of the police," agreed Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Regular observers of the court warn us not to draw too many conclusions from the jurists' questions alone -- the justices have been known to play devil's advocate, challenging the position of a party whose side they actually intend to favor, in order to better develop their own arguments. But this sounds like a case where the court's astonishment over Iowa's brazen defiance of the Constitutional ban on "unreasonable" and warrantless searches was no sham. The notion that we should not object to government agents stopping and frisking any passer-by since "It's for the protection of everyone" and "The innocent have nothing to fear," is the next-to-last stop on the one-way trainride to tyranny. Yes, such measures appear to make the policeman's lot a bit easier, in the short run. But once the populace begin to see these officers not as friendly keepers of the peace and protectors of our liberties, but rather as a hostile occupying army, patting us down and muscling through our belongings at will, that could quickly change. As the Hessians learned in 1776. The high court is expected to rule in the case of Mr. Knowles by July. Let us hope the Supremes set a firm high water mark for this particular tide of tyranny, and begin to roll it back. Cops deserve our praise and support when they undertake the dangerous job of chasing down violent thugs and felons -- but not when they turn to rummaging through our pockets, our glove compartments, and our sock drawers. Vin Suprynowicz is the assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas Review-Journal. Readers may contact him via e-mail at vin at lvrj.com. The web sites for the Suprynowicz column are at http://www.infomagic.com/liberty/vinyard.htm, and http://www.nguworld.com/vindex/. The column is syndicated in the United States and Canada via Mountain Media Syndications, P.O. Box 4422, Las Vegas Nev. 89127. *** Vin Suprynowicz, vin at lvrj.com The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it. -- John Hay, 1872 The most difficult struggle of all is the one within ourselves. Let us not get accustomed and adjusted to these conditions. The one who adjusts ceases to discriminate between good and evil. He becomes a slave in body and soul. Whatever may happen to you, remember always: Don't adjust! Revolt against the reality! -- Mordechai Anielewicz, Warsaw, 1943 * * * --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Fri Nov 6 05:41:48 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 21:41:48 +0800 Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 6.16: Using Credit Reports Crooks Assume YourIdentity & Buy Luxury Cars Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Delivered-To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com From: "ama-gi ISPI" To: Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 6.16: Using Credit Reports Crooks Assume Your Identity & Buy Luxury Cars Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:26:20 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Precedence: list Reply-To: "ama-gi ISPI" ISPI Clips 6.16: Using Credit Reports Crooks Assume Your Identity & Buy Luxury Cars News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) Friday November 6, 1998 ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This From: The Las Angeles Times, Friday, October 23, 1998 http://www.latimes.com Grand Theft Auto Enters the Computer Age http://www.latimes.com/HOME/NEWS/LIFE/AUTO/AUTONEWS/t000096175.html Crime: Hackers are using cyberspace to obtain credit information and purchase luxury vehicles under assumed identities. By SCOTT GLOVER, Times Staff Writer In a new twist on an old crime, computer-savvy thieves have begun hacking into credit files and fabricating drivers' licenses, then walking into car dealerships and buying luxury cars under assumed identities, authorities said. After putting about $10,000 down for a new $120,000 Mercedes-Benz, authorities say, the thief then drives off the lot, leaving behind a commission-happy salesperson. Within a week, they say, the car will most likely be in a container bound for resale on foreign shores. "The problem is growing on a monthly basis," said John Bryan, a Los Angeles County sheriff's captain who runs a regional anti-car-theft unit. Bryan estimated that members of his Taskforce for Regional Autotheft Prevention, or TRAP, arrested about 60 people in 1997 who were running such scams. One of last year's victims was Los Angeles County Supervisor Yvonne Brathwaite Burke and her husband, William. In her case, Burke said a con artist took her name from the newspaper and paid a Georgia jeweler to run a credit check on her to obtain more information. She said the man then obtained a driver's license in William Burke's name and went on a spending spree. Using the Burkes' credit information, the man bought four Yamaha WaveRunner personal water vehicles and a BMW and tried to purchase a Mercedes-Benz and Ford Thunderbird. "We were getting bills in the mail every day," Burke said. "It was driving me crazy." She said the man was finally caught when he brought the BMW back to the dealership to have a trailer hitch installed so he could pull the WaveRunner behind the car. In another case last year, authorities said a man established a dummy real estate company to obtain personal credit histories, then used the information to make more than $1 million in fraudulent purchases, including several cars. Bryan said another scam involved fraudulent applications for car purchases at a San Gabriel Valley dealership. In that case, investigators seized eight cars and believe as many as 40 more were purchased and illegally sold. The thieves generally don't shop for bargains either, Bryan said. "They go for Mercedeses, BMWs, Lexuses, you name it." Bryan said the thieves are typically well-dressed--sometimes even in suits--and have a calm demeanor as they "shop" for a car. "They walk in there looking like they can afford it," he said. "They know what they're doing." Bryan said the average price of a stolen car is about $60,000, and that most of those who have been arrested are suspected of stealing numerous cars. The thieves usually make tens of thousands of dollars' profit on a single sale. Because cases are time-consuming and difficult to prove, Bryan said, an offender is often charged with only one theft. The crimes could result in several charges, including grand theft auto and credit card fraud, punishable by a minimum of three years in prison, according to a spokesman for the district attorney's office. Popular markets for the stolen vehicles include China, numerous republics of the former Soviet Union and the United Arab Emirates, police said. People who have had their identities stolen and used to purchase the cars are not liable, Bryan said. Burke said, even though she was in a position to put pressure on authorities to solve the case, she spent months trying to clean up her credit. "It was a nightmare," she said. "And it could happen to anybody." Copyright 1998 Los Angeles Times. --------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------ ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research and educational purposes only. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases (up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message "Please enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to: ISPIClips at ama-gi.com . The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia (Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no government funding and takes a global perspective. ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research into electronic, personal and financial privacy with a view toward helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy. But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and generous financial support. If you are concerned about the erosion of your privacy in general, won't you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI Supporter" or by taking out an institute Membership? We gratefully accept all contributions: Less than $60 ISPI Supporter $60 - $99 Primary ISPI Membership (1 year) $100 - $300 Senior ISPI Membership (2 years) More than $300 Executive Council Membership (life) Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership. For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com . We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to any third party. **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From rah at shipwright.com Fri Nov 6 05:47:48 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 21:47:48 +0800 Subject: ISPs now responsible for Pirated Material Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text X-Authentication-Warning: lpma.la-ma.org: majordom set sender to owner-general at la-ma.org using -f X-Sender: dkrick at pobox3.bbn.com Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 07:29:38 -0500 To: general at la-ma.org From: Doug Krick Subject: ISPs now responsible for Pirated Material Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-general at la-ma.org Precedence: bulk http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,28357,00.html?st.ne.fd.mdh Summary: IF a local ISP doesn't register with the goverment, per a new law Clinton signed this week, the ISP can be held legally responsible for any pirated material that may be on their site. Doug --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From blancw at cnw.com Fri Nov 6 07:25:26 1998 From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 23:25:26 +0800 Subject: Holloween II: Microsoft Plugs Linux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000d01be0992$d5438600$598195cf@blanc> I thought the name Vinod Vallopillil was familiar as of someone who was on cpunks for a while, in 1995. If my memory serves me well, I think it was him who for a while he had this idea of putting together some learning lectures/sessions locally on economics. I expressed interest, but then he left for school again (he was an intern at MS at the time). I checked the archives for his name, and found some of his posts on "credit card conventional wisdom". This is what was on his sig in a 1995: LibertarianismTelecommunicationsFreeMarketEnvi ronmentalismTechnologyCryptographyElectronicCa shInteractiveTelevisionEconomicsPhilosophyDigi talPrivacyAnarchoCapitalismRuggedIndividualism .. Blanc From KDAGUIO.ABASP1.ABAOF40 at aba.com Fri Nov 6 08:29:38 1998 From: KDAGUIO.ABASP1.ABAOF40 at aba.com (Kawika Daguio) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 00:29:38 +0800 Subject: Digicash bankruptcy Message-ID: Much of Digicash's problems came about as a result of its inventors worldview and dreams. These primary problems were caused by the same factors that created the impetus for their development. The business constraints that David Chaum attempted to impose on everyone interested in his technology included social theory driven restrictions. He really wanted to change not only how future payment systems worked but also wanted to change how current payment mechanisms and general social interaction and commerce worked in the future. I share some of his concerns, but do not find his solution satisfactory. I also remain unconvinced that point to point protection of sensitive information including credit cards numbers solves anything. Infosec as practiced in the WebWorld leaves much to be desired. Point to point encryption + weak and misleading naming (domain names) + near meaningless authentication + untrustworthy practices = slightly worse to slightly better than nothing at all. I am extremely patient (5-50 year time horizon) and remain hopeful that time, money, and proper attention by experienced risk and operations managers will resolve many of the weaknesses with current infrastructure and business models. Kawika >>> "Phillip Hallam-Baker" 11/05/98 09:07PM >>> Phil is right in much of what he says but in a couple of cases he is wrong. Regarding the 'vortex of buzz technologies', VRML, network computers and push are certainly not hot properties at the moment, neither is interactive TV - but the Web was designed as the antithesis of Interactive TV. The root failure of Interactive TV was the assumption that the world wanted to spend its time passively consuming the dross pumped out through a 1000 channel 120" TV which would dominate the home. I would also like to add Java onto the pile. Java today is simply what C++ should have been. It does not revolutionize the programming industry, it simply provides what some people think is an object oriented programming environment and removes some of the worst legacy clutter of C. Cryptographic payment systems are here - in the form of credit card transactions over SSL. The main problem with SET and its competitors is that SSL works a little too well. That is not to say that there is no future for SET. SSL and credit cards are unlikely to make the leap from the consumer market to the business to business market. SET provides an ideal platform to integrate the use of the credit card infrastructure for business payments. The other area where I would disagree is over protocols. HTTP is quite radically different to FTP in that it is a computer client to computer server protocol. The metaphor of FTP is rumaging through a filing cabinet. The HTTP and Web mechanism employs a locator. Admittedly there was nothing to stop a text mode Web being created in 1982 but nobody did so. What is true is that the time taken for Internet technologies to move to market is very slow. Much of the HTTP technology that just reached the market was proposed in '92 and '93. Finaly I have difficulty regarding Digicash as being all that socially responsible. Chaum's problems had a lot to do with the business terms he insisted on. What he had was a technology which allowed an improvement to a payment system. He imagined he had a monopoly on the only feasible solution. He was very baddly mistaken. The monopoly rents he demanded were more than the market was willing to pay for a working and deployed system - let alone for a patent license. Phill For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to "dcsb-request at ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help". From rah at shipwright.com Fri Nov 6 08:31:57 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 00:31:57 +0800 Subject: IP: New Law Requires ISPs to Register & Rat Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Delivered-To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com X-Sender: believer at telepath.com Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 08:11:11 -0600 To: believer at telepath.com From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: New Law Requires ISPs to Register & Rat Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Precedence: list Reply-To: believer at telepath.com Source: http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,28357,00.html?st.ne.1.head Law enlists ISPs in piracy fight By John Borland Staff Writer, CNET News.com November 4, 1998, 5:30 p.m. PT A new set of federal regulations requires Internet service providers to register immediately with the U.S. government, lest they be held legally liable for pirated material that flows through their servers. The new rules, which went into effect yesterday, flow from the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, which was signed by President Clinton last week. The law shields ISPs from being sued for copyright infringement based on their subscribers' postings, so long as they register with the U.S. Copyright Office. The provision is the product of negotiations over the original copyright law, and was accepted reluctantly by service provider industry representatives. "This isn't what we would have wanted. It's a Washington approach to a simple kind of problem," said Dave McClure, executive director of the Association of Online Professionals, a trade group that represents ISPs. Copyright holders had complained that some ISPs were not responding to warnings about pirated material located on their servers, or were claiming ignorance even after being notified. "Copyright holders pushed for a requirement that a person actually be physically designated to receive information about infringement," McClure said. The new law fills a legal gap left by the passage of the Communications Decency Act in 1996. Under that law, ISPs cannot be held liable for slanderous or libelous material that is posted on their services. That provision, which has been tested several times in court already, specifically excludes copyright issues. The new regulations require each ISP to designate a point-person to receive complaints about copyright infringement, and to send that information to the federal copyright office along with a $20 filing fee. The person's name and contact information also must be displayed prominently on the ISP's Web site. The rules went into effect November 3. Any unregistered ISP can legally be held liable for pirated material on its site from now on. The Copyright Office rules are only an interim step in the new law's implementation. Regulators will draft permanent rules and host a public comment period later this year or early next year. ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From privateplacement at royal.net Sat Nov 7 00:36:23 1998 From: privateplacement at royal.net (privateplacement at royal.net) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 00:36:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: securities - PRIVATE PLACEMENT WSG TECH, INC. Message-ID: <199811070810.CAA14003@mail.naviomar.com.mx> Opportunities in manufacturing and marketing patented products. This announcement is neither an offer to sell nor a solicitation of an offer to buy these securities. Sales will be made only by a final Offering Memorandum and only in states where these securities may be offered in compliance with the securities laws of such states. The final Offering Memorandum will NOT be available to residents of the states of Hawaii, Washington, or Wisconsin. PRIVATE PLACEMENT MEMORANDUM REGULATION - RULE 504 UNDER THE SECURITIES ACT OF 1933. 500,000 Shares of Common class non-voting stock. (Par Value $.001 Per Share) $2.00 Per Share with a 5,000 Share Minimum of WSG Tech, Inc. WSG Tech, Inc. (Company), a Nevada corporation was incorporated in Nevada in August 1998. The Company owns the manufacturing and distribution rights, or has the Options to the rights of several commercially viable patented products, and is negotiating for others. The firm also owns the option to purchase an established manufacturing firm with over twenty (20) years of continuous profitable performance. The completion of this purchase will give WSG Tech, Inc. complete control over the manufacturing, sales, distribution and fulfillment of its own products. It will also give the Company a core business of manufacturing for other clients as well as an experienced production and sales staff. The Company has recently concluded an Agreement with an International marketing firm, and is negotiating an agreement for the manufacture and distribution of its products in Europe and South America. The Company's corporate mailing address is P.O. Box 541732 Lake Worth, Florida 33454 USA The company is offering to the public an invitation to participate in the funding of the company. For a copy of the Offering Memorandum, you may contact the Company's investment consultant, e-mail us at privateopportunity at bigfoot.com Be sure to put "Send Me A Copy" in the Subject Line and include your name and address. From rah at shipwright.com Fri Nov 6 08:57:16 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 00:57:16 +0800 Subject: Identification and Privacy are not Antinomies Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Delivered-To: DIGSIG at LISTSERV.TEMPLE.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:39:53 -0200 Reply-To: Digital Signature discussion Sender: Digital Signature discussion From: Ed Gerck Subject: Identification and Privacy are not Antinomies To: DIGSIG at LISTSERV.TEMPLE.EDU Identification and Privacy are not Antinomies This is a comment to the article "Not for Identification Purposes" by Richard Sobel, of 8/12/98, and a reply by Jorge Cortell-Albert, all referenced at http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/filter/101598/letters.html >From the inherent conflict seen in these articles, it is quite apparent that one could profit from a new perspective when dealing with identification issues today. Not only because of historical examples of misuse or because the Clinton administration is proposing a national ID card that may compromise privacy, but because we need to harmonize needs with tools. Clearly, there is an escalating need to identify -- likewise, there is an increasingly easy access to information and massive cross-checking of data based on global indexes. Biometrics, contrary to expressed opinion such as Cortell-Albert's, is not self-secure and cannot protect what it forthrightly denies: privacy. One does not even have to recall the proverbial truck that hits the subject, in order to realize that biometrics is also perishable. In fact, biometrics just highlights the basic paradox of privacy versus security -- where one is asked to forfeit privacy in a rather permanent way in order to gain some transient level of security. Are identification and privacy antinomies, like freedom and slavery? Is there an unresolvable conflict between both security and privacy? Current expressed opinion, such as Sobel's and Cortell-Albert's, says "yes" to both questions. As we have no real solution within the current level of understanding, one needs a fresh look into identification and identity. To exercise the solution, Internet protocols can provide a good practical arena accessible to all and truly international -- thus, I will use it in this exposition as an example. However, it will be clear that I could likewise use anything else -- even the US Government's current proposal for a national ID card. Identification is often understood as an act of identifying, or of establishing an identity. Identity is usually defined as "the distinguishing character or personality of an individual" [1]. Of course, such definitions cannot be applied on the Internet. Any mention to "identity" or "identity authentication" on the Internet is a mere tag for something else, such as an individual's purported attribute. Certainly, without any physical contact with an individual or even without any way to directly verify it. It is simply not possible to speak of "identity" or "identification" as a dictionary defines it, over the Internet. All legal and technical studies that call for or depend on such equivalence are misleading. Any such "identity" or "identification" can be faked, repudiated or are specifically unwarranted (e.g. by commercial CAs) to relying-parties over the Internet. That the US INS accepts UK birth (naming) certificates in order to certify immigration status for its own policy of regulation, does not mean that the INS is acting to "confirm" the legitimacy of the name, or organise the UK namespace. So, the first conclusion is that acceptance of an identity by a recipient does not make that identification more veritable to others ... though it is often interpreted so, especially when a third document is issued by the recipient and publicly known. Sure, there is a bar on the standard of the {UK,...} authorities who the INS respects sufficiently for its own activities. But INS confirmation (or rather "use") confers no status on the original document unless the INS policy wished to make such representation explicit. Which would involve legal responsibilities that escalate like those that would derive from a blank signed cheque. Thus, this is also an unsolved problem in the 3D-world, outside the Internet. On 15th April 1997, The Daily Telegraph, a UK quality newspaper, reported on Alan Reeve [2] -- a convicted criminal and triple killer who was described as "friendly, caring, dependable and loving" by his fianc�e when he was arrested under false identity in Ireland. Clearly, the indeterminacy of "identity" on the 3D-world is itself a reason to doubt any extension of such credentials to the Internet [3,4]. Which is made worse by the often neglected fact that the certificate user (e.g., "relying-party") is not privy to the contract between the CA and the certificate subscriber [3]. Further, CAs effectively contradict any possible public rights that relying-parties might claim, by declaring in the CA's CPS (the governing law) that a certificate has no warranted content to relying-parties [3]. Moreover, on the Internet, we also need to identify hosts, routing, software, etc. -- not just humans. Thus, the basic Net disconnect is that the Internet is essentially that wire that goes to your computer! Anything else that you imagine is just this -- you imagine. Even if you receive a message that looks like mine, from my address, should you believe 100% it is mine? "Doubt until you have proof". Of course, the degree of proof required depends on what is at stake and what is your cost -- however, the best proof is to be considered the one that leaves the concerned parties with no doubts [cf. 2]. Of course, the law may require a higher degree of proof (eg, when buying firearms you cannot just do it over e-mail -- you need to present a legal identity, a legal connection to yourself and perhaps also an address as a further legal connection). The same disconnect happens in the 3D world, because who is to affirm that the presented ID card is the "right one"? Or, that the person depicted in the card is the "right one"? Who is Alan Reeve? However, as given in [5,6], there is an answer to the privacy/security paradox. And, practical tools that may help the Clinton administration (or, any government, company or individual) to decrease costs without resorting to privacy burdens over the puported beneficiaries. The answer begins by a question: What is "to identify"? The study shows that "to identify" is to look for connections. Thus, in identification we look for logical or natural connections -- we look for coherence. The work shows that not identity but coherence is the general metric for identification and deduces more than 64 basic types of identification. More coherence and more identification types mean stronger identification, even if anonymous. Identification can thus be understood not only in the sense of an "identity" connection, but in the wider sense of "any" connection. Which one to use is just a matter of protocol expression, need, cost and (very importantly) privacy concerns. A further benefit is that it allows clear definitions for a large number of new anonymous identification types, sorely needed on the Internet, for e-commerce and to decrease costs inccurred with fraud, in general, but without compromising one's privacy just to tank the car or buy a lunch. I note that even though motivated by the Internet, as a practical arena, the concepts reported in [5,6] can be applied to improve any identification method -- including the present proposal by the US Government. Cheers, Ed Gerck ============================================ References: [1] Merriam-Webster Dictionary, http:www.m-w.com [2] http://www.mcg.org.br/auth_b1.htm [3] http://www.mcg.org.br/certover.pdf [4] http://www.mcg.org.br/cert.htm [5] http://www.mcg.org.br/coherence.txt [6] http://www.mcg.org.br/coherence2.txt ______________________________________________________________________ Dr.rer.nat. E. Gerck egerck at novaware.cps.softex.br http://novaware.cps.softex.br --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From stuffed at stuffed.net Sat Nov 7 01:10:26 1998 From: stuffed at stuffed.net (STUFFED SAT NOV 7) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 01:10:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY! 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Bob 818-559-3484 From jya at pipeline.com Fri Nov 6 09:20:37 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 01:20:37 +0800 Subject: FCC Wiretap Rule Message-ID: <199811061635.LAA24230@camel14.mindspring.com> FCC has issued its Notice of Proposed Rulemaking on CALEA wiretap provisions, approved on October 22: http://jya.com/fcc98282.htm (243K) Zipped: http://jya.com/fcc98282.zip (67K) Lengthy discussion of petitioners (CDT, EFF, telcos, others) objections and FBI's responses. From frissell at panix.com Fri Nov 6 09:59:04 1998 From: frissell at panix.com (Duncan Frissell) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 01:59:04 +0800 Subject: ISPs now responsible for Pirated Material In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199811061720.MAA28321@mail1.panix.com> >http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,28357,00.html?st.ne.fd.mdh > >Summary: IF a local ISP doesn't register with the goverment, per a new law >Clinton signed this week, the ISP can be held legally responsible for any >pirated material that may be on their site. > >Doug > "Register Communists -- Not ISPs" DCF From MusicBoulevard at specials.musicblvd.com Fri Nov 6 10:15:19 1998 From: MusicBoulevard at specials.musicblvd.com (MusicBoulevard) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 02:15:19 +0800 Subject: ** Specials from MusicBoulevard Message-ID: <199811061725.MAA07921@butkus> ****************************************************** Music Boulevard is excited to announce: * This Week's New Release Lineup * The Essential Time Life Christmas Collection CD * Our New Music Gear Department (CD Racks, Headphones, and more... ) * An incredible new album from Burt Bacharach & Elvis Costello - Painted From Memory ****************************************************** Dear Cypher, Music Boulevard has some amazing new offers headed your way. 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Get ready to celebrate the holiday season with The Time-Life Treasury of Christmas http://www.musicblvd.com/cgi-bin/tw/3752_43_627350 This exclusive 2-CD collection features over 40 timeless recordings by the greatest singers of our era. We also have a new Holiday Music Department at: http://www.musicblvd.com/cgi-bin/tw/3752_20_hol -------------------------------------------------------------- Our new music gear department is now open for business ... Music Boulevard is proud to announce our new Music Gear Department, where you'll find CD cases, storage units, cleaners, shelving, headphones, electronics and much more! http://www.musicblvd.com/cgi-bin/tw/3752_20_acc -------------------------------------------------------------- And finally, we've got a great deal on Elvis Costello & Burt Bacharach's new album. One of the year's most acclaimed albums, Painted From Memory is now on sale. http://www.musicblvd.com/cgi-bin/tw/3752_43_582448 It's the duo of the decade and they've joined forces in what critics are hailing as a pop masterpiece and an unparalleled musical event. (And its on sale today!) And remember our top 100 Sellers are ALWAYS on sale. http://www.musicblvd.com/cgi-bin/tw/3752_0_lists/t100.txt We're very excited about this week's lineup, and hope you enjoy the great selection, service and convenience that's made us the #1 online music store. >From one music fan to another, Chris Hoerenz Store Manager http://www.musicblvd.com/ P.S. If, for any reason, you'd prefer not to receive future updates or announcements from Music Boulevard, you may reply to this email and type "unsubscribe" as the subject line of your reply to stop receiving emails. [94454-981105] From nobody at replay.com Fri Nov 6 10:23:18 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 02:23:18 +0800 Subject: don't use passwords as private keys (was Re: Using a password as a private key.) In-Reply-To: <199810312353.SAA23037@camel7.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <199811061754.SAA22579@replay.com> John Young wrote: > Speaking of promo, we saw last night on the Free Congress site a reference > to a report titled "Cyhperpunks v. Cryptocrats: The Battle Over US Encryption > Standards," by Lisa S. Dean. Have you tried e-mailing Lisa? From JOABJ at delphi.com Fri Nov 6 11:14:48 1998 From: JOABJ at delphi.com (SECRET AGENT 66) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 03:14:48 +0800 Subject: Digicash bankruptcy Message-ID: <01J3USZFHLJ694XOBF@delphi.com> >The root failure of Interactive TV was the assumption >that the world wanted to spend its time passively consuming the dross >pumped out through a 1000 channel Actually, the failure of interactive tv was that the world was perfectly happy passively comsuming the dross pumped out through a 1000 channels. Probably explains the failure of digicash, too. joab From petro at playboy.com Fri Nov 6 11:17:21 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 03:17:21 +0800 Subject: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd) In-Reply-To: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B24B@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com> Message-ID: At 4:52 PM -0500 11/5/98, Matthew James Gering wrote: >> Robert Hettinga wrote: >> Further more, even in a free-market there will exist >> black markets. > >Provided you don't corrupt the meaning of free-market to include any >possible black market, then yes, there will *always* be a black market. It >can be made rather insignificant however. Assuming your definition of "free market" is "a market without regulation", you can't have a black market in a free market since a black market is trade in violation of regulations. In other words, a Black market is when you trade either illegal goods illegally, or legal goods illegally. If there are no illegal goods, and there is no regulations limiting trading, then the black market cannot exist. Unless I am missing some context here. >> The aspect of a free-market is that there is no consequence from >> such actions (unless you want to admit to allowing corporations to have >> their own hit squads). > >And again you pervert the meaning of free market. I'm tired arguing that >subject with you, go read a book. Remember that line from _A_Fish_Called_Wanda_ about apes and philosopy? -- "To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather na�ve, and certainly unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust" http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro at playboy.com From info at hot-stock.com Sat Nov 7 05:27:16 1998 From: info at hot-stock.com (info at hot-stock.com) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 05:27:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: ADV: Hot-Stock Discovers Emerging Entertainment Company Message-ID: <199811071811.NAA16377@mars.cyber-website.com> To be removed from our mailing list, simply reply with "Remove" in the subject line. J.P. Morgan, the world famous banker at the American Bankers Convention in 1903 was asked what was the secret of his success. He replied "Opportunity passed me every single second of my life, but I was perceptive enough to take advantage of these opportunities." The time is always now! Companies providing live streaming video content such as Broadcast.Com have had valuations as high as one billion dollars. Alternative Entertainment is a live streaming video content provider for Adult related Internet sites. Adult related sites on the Internet are not only profitable but represent the largest segment of E-Commerce and generate 1.2 billion in annual revenues. Visit http://www.hot-stock.com for full details. Alternative Entertainment (OTC BB : BOYS) Shares Outstanding 3,013,790 Shares Public Float 980,000 Number Shareholders 790 Approved by NASD for Trading October 7, 1998 Visit http://www.hot-stock.com for full details. COMPANY OVERVIEW Alternative Entertainment, Inc. (the "Company") is engaged in the Adult Media and Entertainment Industry. Specifically, the acquisition, development and operation of Upscale Gentlemen�s Clubs and advanced on-line media for E-Commerce on Internet Sites. The Company plans a national chain of Upscale Gentlemen's Clubs with the focus on business and professional male patrons. The main floor, which caters to patrons 25 to 39 years of age, will incorporate an evolving theme concept conducive to a "party atmosphere" and will operate under the trade name BOYS TOYS. Private club facilities of the Boardroom Restaurant will target individuals ages 40 to 65 and offer full service dining, an extensive cigar lounge and a vast selection of premium wines and liquor. The clubs will enable the Company to facilitate onsite film production and live video streaming of the female entertainers as content to the on-line community. Initially the live content will provide revenues via E-Commerce on Company owned Web Sites. Such content will later be repackaged and distributed through Webmasters and individual owners of the 45,000 established Adult Sites on the Internet. The Company has an extremely strong management team comprised of several key executives, including the president, of the leading management company within the Gentlemen�s Club Industry. The management team has over 100 years of combined knowledge of the Industry. INDUSTRY HIGHLIGHTS $4 Billion a year Gentlemen's Club Industry - 25% pretax margins 3,618,000 average yearly revenue per upscale club - $488 sales per sq. ft. 36% of all businessmen entertain their clientele at Gentlemen�s Clubs $1.2 Billion a year Internet Adult Sites - 70% pretax margins Media content providers are basically non-existent Consolidation play exists for both segments of the industry SELECTIVE FINANCIAL HIGHLIGHTS The Company has internally raised $2,000,000 to date through a combination of equity and convertible debt. The Company has a San Francisco property (15,000 sq. ft.) under construction and an option to purchase two additional clubs. Once again visit http://www.hot-stock.com for full details. --- Disclaimer --- This material is being provided by Hot-Stock, an electronic newsletter paid by the issuer for publishing the information contained in this report. Alternative Entertainment, Inc. has paid a consideration of 5,000 shares of common stock of Alternative Entertainment, Inc. to Hot-Stock as payment for the publication of the information contained in this report. Hot-Stock and its affiliates have agreed not to sell the common stock received as payment for its services until November 1, 1998, which date is 15 days from the initial dissemination of this report. After such date, Hot-Stock may sell such shares. Because Hot-Stock is paid for its services, there is an inherent conflict of interest in Hot-Stock�s statements and opinions and such statements and opinions cannot be considered independent. The information contained in this publication is for informational purposes only, and not to be construed as an offer to sell or solicitation of an offer to buy any security. Hot-Stock makes no representation or warrant relating to the validity of the facts presented nor does Hot-Stock represent or warrant that all material facts necessary to make an investment decision are presented above. All statements of opinions are those of Hot-Stock. Hot-Stock relies exclusively on information gathered from public filings on featured companies, as well as, in certain circumstances, interviews conducted by Hot-Stock of management of featured companies. Investors should not rely solely on the information contained in this publication. Rather, investors should use the information contained in this publication as a starting point for conducting additional research on the featured companies in order to allow the investor to form his or her own opinion regarding the featured companies. Factual statements contained in this publication are made as of the date stated and they are subject to change without notice. Hot-Stock is not a registered investment adviser, broker or a dealer. Investment in the companies reviewed is speculative and extremely high-risk and may result in the loss of some or all of any investment made in Alternative Entertainment, Inc. This publication contains forward-looking statements that are subject to risk and uncertainties that could cause results to differ materially from those set forth in the forward-looking statements. These forward-looking statements represent the judgment of Alternative Entertainment, Inc. as of the date of this publication. The Company disclaims any intent or obligation to update these forward-looking statements. From mgering at ecosystems.net Fri Nov 6 14:07:03 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 06:07:03 +0800 Subject: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd) Message-ID: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B258@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com> Matthew James Gering wrote: > >Provided you don't corrupt the meaning of free-market to include > >any possible black market, then yes, there will *always* be a > >black market. It can be made rather insignificant however. Petro responded: > Assuming your definition of "free market" is "a market without > regulation", you can't have a black market in a free market > since a black market is trade in violation of regulations. Like I said, if you don't corrupt the meaning of free market. Laissez Faire capitalism is based on a concept of individual rights. Therefore the proper role of any government (in a libertarian state) or individual/social institution (in rational anarchy) is to protect individual rights (life, liberty, property), and act as an objective framework for retributive force. Therefore, any transaction that violates individual rights is immoral (if not illegal) and constitutes a black market. e.g. assassinations, ransom, stolen goods, extortion, slavery, etc. To create a anarcho-capitalist definition of free market where everything goes and there is no concept of individual rights is as immoral and perverse as the statist concepts that similarly have no concept of individual rights (fascism, communism). Matt From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Fri Nov 6 16:10:26 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 08:10:26 +0800 Subject: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd) Message-ID: <199811062338.RAA00510@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:34:34 -0500 > From: Petro > Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone > (fwd) > Assuming your definition of "free market" is "a market without > regulation", you can't have a black market in a free market since a black > market is trade in violation of regulations. Actualy a black market is usualy goods gotten through theft or other illegal means, not necessarily anything related to how or what is sold. If you don't corrupt free-market to include legitimizing theft as a viable market strategy then yes, you can in fact have a black market in a free-market. Let's consider auto-theft. The issue isn't that you can't buy the car through legitimate means, it just means you have to have more resources than you have. So what do you do? You find somebody whose stolen a vehicle and is willing to sell it to you at a discount. > In other words, a Black market is when you trade either illegal > goods illegally, or legal goods illegally. Too strict and unrealistic a definition of black market. > If there are no illegal goods, and there is no regulations limiting > trading, then the black market cannot exist. Of course not since we've now legitimized theft and murder with your definition. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From mmotyka at lsil.com Fri Nov 6 16:11:27 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 08:11:27 +0800 Subject: Grounding (fwd) Message-ID: <3643312D.5C2@lsil.com> OMYGAWD! I can see that I'll have to give up soon. > The solutions to the wave equation inside the cavity have a real part ~0 > in the exponent. *** It's not a question of a Schroedingers Wave Equation, it's a question of Maxwell's Equations. *** Yeah I've got my old copy of Jackson. MTW too, for all the good it did me. Maxwell's equations can be used to form a wave equation too. I only bring up the Schroedinger equation because the solutions to simple particle-in-a-box examples are easy to generate and easy to visualize. Anyone who even began a decent Physics program should have done many of these. The probability function for the Quantum example *looks like* the amplitude for the EM example...analogy is a good tool. > The boundary condition at the inside surface of the > copper box splices together the solutions in the cavity and inside the > conductor. *** What conductor? The shell is equipotential unless you're trying to play head games with me so there follows there can be no current flow through it except radialy to the outside of the sphere. *** DC, Yes. AC, things are happening. To solve the diffeq's for an EM wave incident on a conducting surface you have to make the solutions !inside! the conductor match the solutions outside the conductor. Only if the conductor is *perfect* does your assumption of nothing going on inside the conductor make sense. BTW - the skin depth for Cu at 100MHz is about 0.00026". The skin depth is proportional to f^(-0.5). In brief, here's what happens to the wave incident on a copper sheet: Wave is incident on surface Most of the wave is reflected the better the conductor, the more is reflected the portion that is not reflected is attenuated in the conductor ( loss ) any amplitude on the other surface of the sheet radiates energy. It should be obvious that, if the conductor is good, there will be very little amplititude inside the conductor, low loss reflection. Further, that 4 mils of Cu should provide ~80 dB loss in even the tiny amount that is not reflected at the inner surface. At 100MHz. I haven't solved this system for many years and I'm not inclined to go back to it now. Take my word for it : a little RF can get through a copper sheet but only a *very* little. It's the finite conductivity that alters the simple scenario. *** Let's walk through it using your model.... The spark gap generates sparks and that builds up free electrons in the space inside the sphere (whether it is gas filled or a vacuum is irrelevant). As that charge builds up it will be all of one type, electrons. Now the electrons repel each other and therefor move in a circular motion with the spark gap as the center. They strike the surface of the sphere and tunnel through to the outside surface where they reside. The amount of charge at any one point is related to the curvature of the surface at that point. Since a sphere is constant curvature the charge will be evenly distributed. It will continue to build up so long as you supply power to the spark gap. In an ideal world it will get bigger and bigger. In the real world at some point insulation breaks down and normal current flow takes place. *** Wild! Forget all this, this patchwork of pieces doesn't hold together as a description of the physical problem. If it helps, forget about the spark gap. Waves waves waves. Start with a wave packet in the box. Don't worry about how it got there. Worry about keeping it there. Best regards Jim, Mike From pleontks at hotmail.com Fri Nov 6 16:14:30 1998 From: pleontks at hotmail.com (John C) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 08:14:30 +0800 Subject: Fwd: How true this is Message-ID: <19981106233653.27724.qmail@hotmail.com> it's rare that i do this... >>Perfect Days >> >> >>The Perfect Day For HER >> >>8:15 Wakeup to hugs & kisses >>8:30 Weigh in 5lb lighter than yesterday >>8:45 Breakfast in bed, fresh squeezed orange juice & croissants >>9:15 Soothing hot bath with fragrant lilac bath oil >>10:00 Light work out at club with handsome, funny personal trainer >>10:30 Facial, manicure, shampoo & comb out >>12:00 Lunch with best friend at outdoor cafe >>12:45 Notice ex-boyfriends wife, she has gained 30lbs >>13:00 Shopping with friends, unlimited credit >>15:00 Nap >>16:00 3 dozen roses delivered by florist, card is from secret admirer >>16:15 Light work out at club, followed by gentle massage >>17:30 Pick out outfit for dinner, primp before mirror >>19:30 Candlelight dinner for two followed by dancing >>22:00 Hot shower (alone) >>22:30 Make love >>23:00 Pillow talk, light touching & cuddling >>23:15 Fall asleep in his big strong arms >> >> >>The perfect day for HIM >> >>6:00 Alarm >>6:15 Blowjob >>6:30 Massive shit, while reading sports section of paper >>7:00 Breakfast, Fillet mignon & eggs, toast & coffee >>7:30 Limo arrives >>7:45 Vodka Bloody Mary en route to airport >>8:15 Private Jet to Augusta, Georgia (en route Coffee, Cigar & Wall >>St Journal) >>9:30 Limo to Augusta National Golf Club >>9:45 Front nine holes at Augusta (2 under par) >>11:45 Lunch, 2 dozen oysters on the half shell, 3 Hienekens >>12:15 Blowjob >>12:30 Back nine holes at Augusta (4 under par) >>14:15 Limo back to airport (Vodka Martini) >>14:30 Private Jet, Augusta to Nassau, Bahamas (nap) >>15:15 Late afternoon fishing excursion with all female (topless) crew >>16:30 Land world record light tackle Marlin (1249lbs) >>17:00 Jet back home, massage & hand job en route by naked Elle >>Macpherson >>18:45 Shit, shave & shower >>19:00 Watch CNN newsflash: Clinton resigns, Hillary and Al Gore farm >>animal sex video released. >>19:30 Dinner, Lobster appetizers, Dom Perignon (1963), 20oz New York >>Steak >>21:00 Wild Turkey & Cuban cigar >>21:30 Sex with three women >>23:00 Massage & Jacuzzi >>23:45 Bed (alone) >>23:50 12 second, 4 note fart, dog leaves room >>23:55 Sleep ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From lharrison at dueprocess.com Fri Nov 6 16:55:24 1998 From: lharrison at dueprocess.com (Lynne L. Harrison) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 08:55:24 +0800 Subject: Quick, Dear -- Beat Me In-Reply-To: <000401be087d$55f97aa0$3b8195cf@blanc> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981106193055.0082bdd0@pop.mhv.net> At 10:47 AM 11/5/98 -0500, Petro wrote: > >At 12:08 AM -0500 11/5/98, Blanc wrote: >>From Duncan Frissell: >> >>I just went to the bank I do business with this week to open a new account. >>They wanted my social security number, (which they actually already have on >>record), and during a search on her handy database, the Customer Assistance >>clerk informed me that there was another person in Florida using the same >>number. >> >>>report and advice to notify the Social Security dept about it. I don't >>really >>want to discuss it with them. Think it would be to my benefit to just >>leave it >>alone? Probbly not. > If they are using your name as well, they could be damaging your >credit rating. Absolutely, and it is not limited to credit cards. It would pop up if, for example, you buy a new car. If your rating does become negatively affected, the creditor could care less about your explanation of some Joe Anonymous using your SSN. His first question would be why didn't you report it when you found out. Whatever credit you'd be applying for would get unbelievably mired in beaucracy - something you wouldn't need. Additionally, it can mushroom in other areas as well. This other person is getting credit for the number of years that you have been employed. Also, if s/he applies for SSD or SSI (disability or supplemental security income), you will be impacted upon. Some states require SSN's for driving licenses, and there's a myriad of potential problems here as well. Tax returns can potentially become a complication. And the list goes on.... All in all, you should seriously reconsider your decision of not reporting the problem. *********************************************************** Lynne L. Harrison, Esq. | "The key to life: Poughkeepsie, New York | - Get up; mailto:lharrison at dueprocess.com | - Survive; http://www.dueprocess.com | - Go to bed." *********************************************************** DISCLAIMER: I am not your attorney; you are not my client. Accordingly, the above is *NOT* legal advice. From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Fri Nov 6 17:07:36 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 09:07:36 +0800 Subject: Grounding (fwd) Message-ID: <199811070039.SAA00913@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 09:26:05 -0800 > From: Michael Motyka > Subject: Re: Grounding (fwd) > Yeah I've got my old copy of Jackson. MTW too, for all the good it did > me. Maxwell's equations can be used to form a wave equation too. I only > bring up the Schroedinger equation because the solutions to simple > particle-in-a-box examples are easy to generate and easy to visualize. The problem is we're not discussing a particle in a box. We're discussing the statistical mechanical behaviour of a group of particles. Apples and oranges. One, you're scale of distance between the two is off by orders of magnitude. Secondly, you're considering an electron carrying a photon as a single wavicle, it ain't. It's a superposition of several wavicles (3 quarks and a lepton to be exact under the standard model). Thirdly, you're trying to model a group of particles as a single instance of Schroedengers Wave equation, a big no no. Fourthly, you're failing to take into account the interactions between the particles and those consequences because of mass charge, which after all is the engine that drives this model. In reference to your particle-in-a-box model, the point you seem to miss is that the scale of the box is on the order of a few Planck distances. That behaviour is grossly different than a ball 10 in. in diameter filled with a gas of electrons (and potentialy protons if it's not a vacuum) all carrying short-wavelength photons around. > DC, Yes. AC, things are happening. Where did the AC come from? We're talking about a spark gap that is only going to emit electrons *and* is run by a battery (it's your baby). Where the hell do I buy an AC battery pray tell? Where? Under your example there is no mass charge flow because ground is irrelevant. So we're left with only the gas like behaviours. Now it's clear that the individual particle paths are going to be modelled via a drunkards walk. So, where does this coherent flow come from? If there is a flow it implies, because of the behaviour of like/dislike charges, that there is a difference in charge. > To solve the diffeq's for an EM wave incident on a conducting surface > you have to make the solutions !inside! the conductor match the > solutions outside the conductor. Only if the conductor is *perfect* does > your assumption of nothing going on inside the conductor make sense. What the hell are you talking about?.... Here's what we're discussing: A generator emits electrons which carry a negative charge. These electrons each also carry a photon of some quantity. Like charges repel. When a photon strikes an atom it will be absorbed if it's wavelength matches one of the Bohr radii. This may cause one or more secondary photons to be emitted as a result. The assumption was the spark gap is in the center of the ball. Because the spark gaps emission of electrons is random the resultant cloud of particles can be modelled as a gas that is expanding from a point source. The expansion is driven by the repelling effect of the charges. This causes the the particles at time tau to, on average - remember we're talking statistical mechanics here, expand at an equal rate, in effect forming a bubble of particles coherent with tau. That rate is usualy related to k * sqrt ( s ). As the charges expand some will emit photons. Some of the atoms in the shell will emit photons. Some of each will absorb photons. At some point (tau + delta) the charge impacts the shell. This will in effect increase the charge of the shell by 1 -e. Now, by Gauss's Law, this charge in the gas will induce an opposite charge on the inside surface of the globe. Unlike charges attract. Therefore the gas of electrons are attracted to the inside surface. Now since the globe is neutral it must follow by conservation of charge that there is a negative charge equal to the charge held in the gas on the *OUTSIDE* of the ball. This is in addition to the charge that steadily builds up in the shell as the electrons accrete over time. This can be modelled with an integral of the flow rate of the current in the battery (it after all is Coulombs/s). It's not too hard (k * I). (I'm not going to go into what happens as the charge on the shell builds up as we're discussing here the applicability of wave equations as a reliable model). So what do you get? A hell of a charge that will go bang at some point when some insulation give way. See: Physics J. Orear ISBN 0-02-389460-1 pp. 304 "Electrical Induction" He uses your exact model except for the tether. It's a classic in Freshman Physics and science museums. > BTW - the skin depth for Cu at 100MHz is about 0.00026". The skin depth > is proportional to f^(-0.5). So what if the electron gives it's photon up to another which causes it to bounce around through the Cu lattice till it gets to the other side knocking an electron free (conservation of momentum) or emitting a free photon (which is what we're *REALLY* talking about reducing with TEMPEST - you could think of it as cooling the laptop at rf frequencies if you like, you could model it with a spin-glass based cellular automaton). It's called charge migration and there are also effects at high voltage which is called charge tunneling. If you examine the literature of Japanese hi-v researchers they have become adept at causing ball lightening to tunnel through insulators. It's pretty interesting. There are also quite a few cases where the inducement fails and the result is a broken ceramic plate because of the heating effects. [rest deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From kkemp at magicnet.net Fri Nov 6 18:57:55 1998 From: kkemp at magicnet.net (Kevin) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 10:57:55 +0800 Subject: Hey there................... Message-ID: <419.436105.76927211kkemp@magicnet.net> Get yor own DotCom ! or transfer yours now ! FREE SETUP, FREE TRANSFERS, HOSTING INCLUDED ! Digital Global Networks =>> NO SPOOKY HIDDEN COSTS ! =>> On the net since it's birth. ALL DOMAIN HOSTING AND SETUP IS INCLUDED: ONLY $15.95/mo. Call NOW, on our toll-free registration line. It's FREE ===> 1-800-549-6542 8am-8pm est. or 407-622-2172 For ONLY $15.95/mo. You receive ALL of these services and MORE ! 1. Your own domain name www.AnyNameYouChoose.com 2. Starter 6pg website template with graphics. 3. 20 megs of quality triple DS3 (digital) webspace. 4. Total FTP access 24/7 5. POP E-mail box. 6. Unlimited e-mail addresses at AnyNameYouChoose.com 7.TOLL FREE! WARM BODY helpline with no hold buttons! 1-800-549-6542 8. 100megs of traffic/day! 9. Support forum with all the tools you will ever need from HTML to Perl. 10. Guaranteed 99% uptime. 11. Ongoing pledge to price freeze! 12. FREE SETUP ! NO HIDDEN COSTS ! 13. FREE TRANSFERS ! 14. One of the oldest and largest hosting and network providers in the world. Don't miss this 1-time 10-day opportunity from Digital Global Networks ! CALL NOW It's FREE====> 1-800-549-6542 or 407-622-2172 *Front page support available ! **E-commerce, secure server service available ! ***Webmaster accounts available ! *****This is the only message you will receive. Your address has been automatically deleted. CALL NOW It's FREE====> 1-800-549-6542 or 407-622-2172 From rah at shipwright.com Fri Nov 6 19:35:45 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 11:35:45 +0800 Subject: ASHCROFT 2000 RIP? In-Reply-To: <19981107005439.30238.qmail@listbox.com> Message-ID: At 6:04 PM -0500 on 11/6/98, National Review DC wrote: > ASHCROFT 2000 RIP? > Gov. Mel Carnahan (D., Mo.) has announced he will challenge Sen. John > Ashcroft's (R., Mo.) re-election. It's an ominous move for the freshman > senator's presidential bid. Sen. Phil Gramm had a tougher race than > usual following his disastrous 1996 run for the presidency, and he was > running against a political nobody. Gov. Carnahan is politically > formidable, and could give Ashcroft a run for his money even without the > distractions, missed votes, and potential embarrassments of a > presidential campaign. Ashcroft now must worry about the Dornan effect. > > On the other hand, Ashcroft would be able to convert any funds raised in > a presidential campaign to his Senate race if he lost the former. But > handicappers already question how much he can raise. ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From jkthomson at bigfoot.com Fri Nov 6 21:38:35 1998 From: jkthomson at bigfoot.com (jkthomson) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 13:38:35 +0800 Subject: verisign digital id's for outlook Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981106210608.00956390@dowco.com> A quick question for all you security-savvy people. Our IT instructor has asked the class to sign up for verisigns' 60-day trial of a class 1 digital id. pfaugh. give me a copy of PGP anyday! at least I can (easily) take my keys with me! I also understand that a well (poorly?) written activeX applet can grab my key basically without my knowledge (to speak nothing of the other myriad holes in win98/95) My question is, where the hell is the private key kept on the users box? How is it protected against attack? I had to voice my displeasure with the instructor that I could not take the ID with me on a floppy so that the night class would not have potential access, but got the usual 'it is secure enough, let it be' attitude. Thanks in advance for any information! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- james 'keith' thomson www.bigfoot.com/~ceildh jkthomson:C181 991A 405C EAFB 2C46 79B5 B1DC DB78 8196 122D [06.07.98] ceildh :1D79 59AF ED75 5945 6003 8240 DA34 ACCA 9DE4 6BC9 [05.14.98] ICQ:354111 at pgp.mit.edu ...and former sysop of tnbnog BBS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "You shouldn't overestimate the IQ of crooks." - Stuart Baker, of NSA explaining why crooks and terrorists who are smart enough to use data encryption would be stupid enough to choose DES ======================================================================= From mah248 at nyu.edu Fri Nov 6 22:46:00 1998 From: mah248 at nyu.edu (Michael Hohensee) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 14:46:00 +0800 Subject: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd) In-Reply-To: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B258@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com> Message-ID: <3643E9AE.24027635@nyu.edu> Matthew James Gering wrote: > > Laissez Faire capitalism is based on a concept of individual rights. > Therefore the proper role of any government (in a libertarian state) or > individual/social institution (in rational anarchy) is to protect individual > rights (life, liberty, property), and act as an objective framework for > retributive force. No government can protect individual rights. The only way one could do so would be if it: (a) could predict the future, and act to prevent certain futures from happening; or (b) it controls every aspect and motion of each individual's life, thereby ensuring that nobody steps out of line. Unfortunately, the first scenario is impossible, given the current state of the art, and the second results in the complete extinction of individual rights in the name of safety (which is the ultimate goal of the current powers that be, it seems). All any state can do is threaten to "retaliate" against (why not just say "attack") people who disobey its edicts. In order for this threat to be credible, the state must wield sufficient power to kill any individual (or group of individuals) who would stand against it. If it does not have this power, it cannot govern. The problem is, if it does have this power, then there is nothing to stop those individuals in control of the state from violating the individual rights of its citizens. As often seems the case today, for example. The system you suggest, which I assume consists of a state with a "minimal" amount of power, run by enlightened people, is in a state of extremely unstable equilibrium (if it is indeed in equilibrium). If it wields just enough power to enforce its will, that power can be used by evil men to increase its power. Just look at what happened after the Constitutional coup took place in the fledgling USA. Remember the Whiskey Rebellion? When we lost the Articles of Confederation, we were taking the first steps down the road to the tyranny of today. The anti-federalists predicted this, although they sorely underestimated how far it would go --assuming that it would be stopped by another revolution. The minimalist state has been tried. It lasted less than a decade before it started turning into what we have today, and what was left of its spirit died with the war of northern aggression. The only truly free system is one in which there is no body of people calling itself a government which can enforce its will over the individual. The only way people can seem to be free living under such a body is entirely dependent upon the good will of their masters, and this is a shaky assumption to make. > Therefore, any transaction that violates individual rights is immoral (if > not illegal) and constitutes a black market. How about: Any action that involves the initiation of force against the property of another person (the person belongs to himself, of course) is immoral. This neatly tidies up the obvious question of exactly what "individual rights" are. There's a partial list of them in the bill of rights, but it is not complete, by its own admission. Furthermore, the above definition excludes such dubious rights as the "right to an education", the "right to welfare", etc. > e.g. assassinations, ransom, stolen goods, extortion, slavery, etc. All of the above involve the initiation (or threat of initiation) of force. Hence they are immoral, and the victims and any bystanders would be morally justified in using force against the initiators. Of course, this would not be true in a governed society, where the state must hold a monopoly on the use of force, if only to maintain its own position. Much less efficient. Besides, putting a subset of the population to the task of defining what is and isn't moral leads to such inanities as "homosexuality is immoral", "premarital sex/underage sex is immoral", and "ingesting certain compounds is immoral." We've all got our pet peeves. Would you like to live under mine? Would I like to live under yours? Can I trust you to be tolerant? Can I trust your successors, 20 years from now? Can my descendants trust subsequent successors, 200 years later? Experience tends to show the contrary. > To create a anarcho-capitalist definition of free market where everything > goes and there is no concept of individual rights is as immoral and perverse > as the statist concepts that similarly have no concept of individual rights > (fascism, communism). The anarcho-capitalist free market is not one where "everything goes," and there is indeed a strong concept of individual rights. What is moral and not moral is defined by society on an individual basis. The first and only rule is: No one has the right to initiate force against another or another's property. This is the fundamental and only "social contract" we make. Anyone who disagrees with this is obviously antisocial, and nobody's going to want to live with him (or allow him to continue living, if he attacks someone). >From this, morality follows. If X does Y to Z, and if Y is perceived as immoral, then X is not going to be very popular with Z or anyone else, unless he can make amends. No one will want to trade with him, be near him, etc. This is a very strong motive to avoid doing immoral things. If Y is really nasty, such as the initiation of force, then X is going to be in *deep* trouble. Z may well shoot him out of self defense, and even if he survives his action, he'll have to pay a *lot* of restitution before people will trust him again, if ever. Law enforcement by ostracism --read L. Neil Smith's "The Probability Broach", for a more detailed description. In summary, a free market is far from being an immoral market. In fact, it is the most moral market there is, since there is no state which holds the "right" to initiate force. Regards, Michael Hohensee From apf2 at apf2.com Sat Nov 7 00:51:51 1998 From: apf2 at apf2.com (Albert P. Franco, II) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 16:51:51 +0800 Subject: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd) Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981107091528.00922620@apf2.com> >From: Jim Choate >Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd) > >Forwarded message: > >> Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:34:34 -0500 >> From: Petro >> Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone >> (fwd) > >> In other words, a Black market is when you trade either illegal >> goods illegally, or legal goods illegally. > >Too strict and unrealistic a definition of black market. I would add the clause illegal goods (apparently) legally. This covers the case where stolen property is moved through legitimate channels. Even if the government doesn't restrict and legitimize the channels there must be restrictions on theft and inappropriate acquisition (fraud) of goods (and services) otherwise the result is not free-market, but rather barbarism and brute force rule. Under the "free-for-all" definition of free market, the final result would actually be slavery (since you wouldn't produce the items that I keep stealing from you unless I hold a gun to your head), and war (in order to get resources I can pay or I can steal, since I don't like to pay, I'll just get a bigger army and steal it from you). Sounds drastic? There are a few examples today in the parts of Africa controlled by warlords. > >> If there are no illegal goods, and there is no regulations limiting >> trading, then the black market cannot exist. > >Of course not since we've now legitimized theft and murder with your >definition. > Nothing is EVER black and white. And free-market can never be 100% free or it will cease to be a market. APF From apf2 at apf2.com Sat Nov 7 00:52:14 1998 From: apf2 at apf2.com (Albert P. Franco, II) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 16:52:14 +0800 Subject: Quick, Dear -- Beat Me Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981107090029.008caa20@apf2.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1264 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Sat Nov 7 09:43:03 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 01:43:03 +0800 Subject: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd) Message-ID: <199811071710.LAA02112@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 01:33:18 -0500 > From: Michael Hohensee > Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd) > No government can protect individual rights. That isn't a reasonable statement. There is nothing in the definition or application of 'government' or 'individual rights' that preclude this. The issue becomes in a practical sense how the practitioners of a government system respect individual rights. If they are willing to do away with them to protect them (as we seem to be moving toward in this country) then of course there are no individual rights. Of course, this implies there are no collective rights either. > The only way one could do > so would be if it: (a) could predict the future, and act to prevent > certain futures from happening; or (b) it controls every aspect and > motion of each individual's life, thereby ensuring that nobody steps out > of line. What has that to do with protecting individual rights? Clarify please. > All any state can do is threaten to "retaliate" against (why not just > say "attack") people who disobey its edicts. In order for this threat > to be credible, the state must wield sufficient power to kill any > individual (or group of individuals) who would stand against it. If it > does not have this power, it cannot govern. This is a quaint and completely artificial distinction. > citizens. As often seems the case today, for example. We also see quite a few situations where the opposite occurs as well. > The system you suggest, which I assume consists of a state with a > "minimal" amount of power, run by enlightened people, is in a state of Anyone who assumes noble oblige is an idiot. There are no enlightened people, intelligence and wealth no more prepare an individual for a position in government than they prepare them for anything else. Rich/intelligent people don't make less mistakes than those who aren't. > extremely unstable equilibrium (if it is indeed in equilibrium). If it If you're talking of Hayek's equilibrium, it's nothing more than a bastardization of a thermodynamics term to represent the status quo. Equilabrium in the economic sense simply means that people do today what they did yesterday. In general they do about as often as they don't. > wields just enough power to enforce its will, that power can be used by > evil men to increase its power. Evil? Where did religion come into this at? > Just look at what happened after the Constitutional coup took place in > the fledgling USA. Remember the Whiskey Rebellion? When we lost the > Articles of Confederation, we were taking the first steps down the road > to the tyranny of today. The anti-federalists predicted this, although > they sorely underestimated how far it would go --assuming that it would > be stopped by another revolution. There have been several since then. The Civil War and the civil rights movement in the 60's are two good examples (on the opposite end of the 'use-of-violence' scales). > The minimalist state has been tried. No, that was a non-federalist state where the individual states acted as individuals in a collective. Because of the collective nature of the state governments it didn't work. A minimalist state would be anarchy. > The only truly free system is one in which there is no body of people > calling itself a government which can enforce its will over the > individual. The only way people can seem to be free living under such a > body is entirely dependent upon the good will of their masters, and this > is a shaky assumption to make. No it isn't the only way. The only way is to clearly define the duties of each level of government and build a system of checks and balances that prohibit them from moving outside their domains. A good first attempt at this was the Constitution and the Bill of Rights (in particular 9 & 10). The problem is that there are individuals who don't want to be limited in their authority. It's a person problem not a government problem. > How about: Any action that involves the initiation of force against the > property of another person (the person belongs to himself, of course) is > immoral. Morality? Why do you keep bringing religion and individual beliefs into it? A person is, they don't belong to anyone. It should be: Any act that harms a person or their property without their prior permission is a crime. There are no exceptions other than immediate personal self defence, which terminates upon the application of minimal force to guarantee the threat will not reoccur (in many cases this means kill the attacker). This should apply to all individuals participating in a governmental role as well. > This neatly tidies up the obvious question of exactly what "individual > rights" are. There's a partial list of them in the bill of rights, but > it is not complete, by its own admission. By it's own admission they are protected from denial by the 9th and 10th so they don't need to be listed (unlike the 10th lists the duties of the government system). The problem is conservatives and liberals alike don't respect those boundaries. They want more. > Furthermore, the above > definition excludes such dubious rights as the "right to an education", > the "right to welfare", etc. Now you're doing exactly what you are complaining about. Your defining others rights when you don't want them defining yours. People may very well have a right to welfare and an education (I believe people have a civil right to medical and legal advice gratis - stems from the pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness). The issue isn't that. The issue is *what are the duties of the government as defined in its charter*. If those duties are not in there (and they're not) then it shouldn't be doing it without an amendment from the charter. > All of the above involve the initiation (or threat of initiation) of > force. Hence they are immoral, and the victims and any bystanders would > be morally justified in using force against the initiators. Of course, > this would not be true in a governed society, where the state must hold > a monopoly on the use of force, if only to maintain its own position. > Much less efficient. Go read the Constitution, it's true here in our governemnt though many people don't want it to be so. As a result they find all kinds of childish and inane reasons to deny the obvious. Like it or not the federal governments panapoly of current powers are as vacous as the king is naked. It's like executive orders, unless you happen to work for the executive branch they aren't worth the paper they're written on. Why? Because at no point is the office of President given this authority over anyone other than executive branch employees. He has no more authority to dictate general behaviour via that mechanism than you or I do - zero. Per the 10th there is not one sentence in the Constitution that delegates that authority to the office. > We've all got our pet peeves. Would you like to live under mine? Would > I like to live under yours? Can I trust you to be tolerant? Can I > trust your successors, 20 years from now? Can my descendants trust > subsequent successors, 200 years later? Experience tends to show the > contrary. There is more at stake than toleration or trust. You paint with too narrow a brush. If you're saying we should have anarchy then you're as kooky as the people who don't literaly interpret the Constitution. > The anarcho-capitalist free market is not one where "everything goes," > and there is indeed a strong concept of individual rights. What is > moral and not moral is defined by society on an individual basis. The > first and only rule is: First, it is one of everything-goes because there is no mechanism that will stop anybody from doing anything. There are NO concepts of *rights* in such a system, let alone individual rights. If anything the only rights are who has the capitalist backing to stave off the anarchic forces. That's not justice, equality, or respect for rights. > No one has the right to initiate force against another or another's > property. Attack me with your body and property and watch it happen junior. > This is the fundamental and only "social contract" we make. Anyone who > disagrees with this is obviously antisocial, and nobody's going to want > to live with him (or allow him to continue living, if he attacks > someone). Oh bullshit. There is much more involved like not stealing which isn't the use of force and allowed by your anarcho-capatilism as well as your definition of valid use of force above. It's gibberish. > >From this, morality follows. If X does Y to Z, and if Y is perceived as > immoral, then X is not going to be very popular with Z or anyone else, > unless he can make amends. No one will want to trade with him, be near > him, etc. This is a very strong motive to avoid doing immoral things. Will you get religion the hell out of here please. Y is obviously popular with X or else they wouldn't have used it. It further follows that there are more than one X-type out there. So your premise falls down on its face in the dirt. > If Y is really nasty, such as the initiation of force, then X is going > to be in *deep* trouble. With who? In an anarcho-capitalist society as you paint it the optimal strategy is to allow others to reduce your competition opening up the market for you. Let's take an example. Imagine we live on a street and we notice a person going from house to house down the other side of the street. What is our optimal strategy? It isn't to call the cops (there aren't any) and it isn't to immediately kill the intruder (it isn't our property after all) since there is an opportunity to make a considerable gain here improving our status in the society as a whole. The optimal strategy is to wait and let this bozo kill our neighbors up to our house and *then* kill the intruder. At that point we have just inhereted an entire street of houses and its included properties. You put up a fence across each end of the street and wallah, your own little fifedom. If you're really lucky something similar will happen on the next street over and they won't be as lucky at killing the intruder. Then after they are all dead and the intruder has consolidated their gains (probably by fencing their street in) you can begin to scheme ways of taking that property since its obvious yours is next. > Z may well shoot him out of self defense, and > even if he survives his action, he'll have to pay a *lot* of restitution > before people will trust him again, if ever. Law enforcement by > ostracism --read L. Neil Smith's "The Probability Broach", for a more > detailed description. Wait a second, there is no law to enforce here outside of make money, obtain property, keep somebody else from taking it. > In summary, a free market is far from being an immoral market. In fact, > it is the most moral market there is, since there is no state which > holds the "right" to initiate force. In summary a free-market is a anarchy of kill or be killed, take or get taken. He with the most goodies wins until somebody with a better strategy comes along. There is nothing to moderate the use of force, especialy when its the optimal strategy to increase ones holdings. Your spouting gibberish. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Sat Nov 7 10:04:35 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 02:04:35 +0800 Subject: Stip club plays by rules and wins...for now [CNN] Message-ID: <199811071736.LAA02199@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 11:34:45 -0600 > X-within-URL: http://customnews.cnn.com/cnews/pna.show_story?p_art_id=3130419&p_section_name=U.S. > STRIP CLUB FINDS WAY AROUND CITY RESTRICTION: LET KIDS IN > > AP > 06-NOV-98 > > NEW YORK (AP) -- A New York City strip club has found a loophole that > allows it to wriggle past the mayor's crackdown on sex-oriented > businesses. > > The club says its policy is to admit kids -- if they're accompanied by > adults. > > Therefore, it argues, it's not an adult business. > > A judge agrees. > > Mayor Rudolph Giuliani is livid. [rest deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Sat Nov 7 10:23:52 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 02:23:52 +0800 Subject: A question about the new ISP ruling and email... Message-ID: <199811071757.LAA02280@einstein.ssz.com> Hi, I was pondering the draconian implications of the requirement to register ISP's. Would an email only site be an ISP under these regulations? What I had in mind was a box sitting here on a link to the Internet and several local dial-ins. When a user logged in they could start pine, elm, slip, or ppp. It would support inbound only telnet. The only commands that would execute besides the above would be exit, quit, bye. There would not need to be any directory access or related issues. The only storage avaiable would be quotas on email buffer size. Would such a commercial entity require registry to be protected? I have to talk with a lawyer and find out if TAG needs registered. If so then I'd be interested in participating in a civil liberties suit. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody at replay.com Sat Nov 7 11:49:42 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 03:49:42 +0800 Subject: Identification and Privacy are not Antinomies Message-ID: <199811071926.UAA19456@replay.com> Aaww horseplops[1]! In fact, great, festering, mid-path, sole-sticking horseplops! This argument is vacuous. As every small child knows, authentication != identification and, in most cases, only authentication is required and, the absence of identification implies privacy. Am I a UK citizen, a good credit risk, a club member in good standing, etc. An appropriate mechanism, a smartcard, can easily authenticate both itself (challenge-response) and the bearer via a biometric and/or PIN without revealing the identity of the holder. However, who holds out hope that such a sensible thing would ever be adopted by the powers-that-be. Nematode [1] The plop is a useful measure of human cogitation. As every small child knows, much good thinking is done whilst enthroned on the commode, since the evacuation of feces from the anus promotes the introduction of fresh material into the brain through the ears. After years of experimentation and careful measurement, we (the ISO labs) have observed a strong correlation between ideas and fecal bombardment of the receptive commodal pool and audible emissions therefrom. For example, it required only 0.3 plops to decide to vote for Clinton while a similar decision in favor of John Major required almost 5 plops. For the purposes of comparison, 10^6 homosapiens plop = 1 horseplop. While the relationship between megaplops, flops and MIPS is not yet clear, our ISO plop standard should be emitted soon. -----BEGIN PLOP SIGNATURE----- Version: PLOP for Personal Privacy Charset: nocommode NSACIAMOUSEaw6mkJhRWnHTzAQFMlgP/ZMM+14qUzy+w6AGSlOtAyrE2BBDSV3Hm Tlc0Ct7wyXV2CPEMzieCm4ZS0rzigkgTZTMCmEqYexEJkdSAU60WMHm3cr28UJIG ekx7N7aWKQ34u05dRrE+IVR329y0ia/2F8B7edZ7CqoydOJAnQxNIB1qohlCGlGT RYgOGVSpO04= =MF1K -----END PLOP SIGNATURE----- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Sat Nov 7 12:05:35 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 04:05:35 +0800 Subject: Identification and Privacy are not Antinomies (fwd) Message-ID: <199811071943.NAA02441@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 20:26:24 +0100 > From: Anonymous > Subject: Identification and Privacy are not Antinomies > Am I a UK citizen, a good credit risk, a club member in good > standing, etc. An appropriate mechanism, a smartcard, can easily > authenticate both itself (challenge-response) and the bearer via a biometric > and/or PIN without revealing the identity of the holder. > > However, who holds out hope that such a sensible > thing would ever be adopted by the powers-that-be. What the powers-that-be hold is realy irrelevant. The issue is what do we do to make sure that the powers-that-are-to-be don't have that option? ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From guy at panix.com Sat Nov 7 12:16:17 1998 From: guy at panix.com (Information Security) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 04:16:17 +0800 Subject: A question about the new ISP ruling and email... Message-ID: <199811071956.OAA15936@panix7.panix.com> > From: Jim Choate > > Hi, > > I was pondering the draconian implications of the requirement to register > ISP's. Would an email only site be an ISP under these regulations? I dunno. But I've begun netcopping the Ignition-Point list on an ongoing basis (starting Friday), and they'll be an interesting test case of whether what they're doing is "fair use". Pobox.com/listbox.com is reluctantly assigning a person to receive (my) copyright complaints, and will register themselves with the FCO. I like to post whole articles myself. Anyway, for a test case, better them than me. ---guy ;-) From rah at shipwright.com Sat Nov 7 12:16:34 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 04:16:34 +0800 Subject: IP: Head of U.S. Internet Policy Plans to Resign: Magaziner Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Delivered-To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com X-Sender: believer at telepath.com Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 09:05:02 -0600 To: believer at telepath.com From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Head of U.S. Internet Policy Plans to Resign: Magaziner Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Precedence: list Reply-To: believer at telepath.com Source: New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/yr/mo/cyber/articles/07magaziner.html November 6, 1998 Magaziner, Head of U.S. Internet Policy, Plans to Resign By JERI CLAUSING ASHINGTON -- Ira C. Magaziner, who has led the Clinton Administration's efforts to foster the growth of the Internet and electronic commerce, said today that he plans to leave the White House before the end of the year. Magaziner said he has not set a departure date or made any firm plans for his future, but he hopes to wrap up his duties within the next month and move back to New England. His family moved there a year ago, he said, and he has been commuting since then. "I felt a responsibility to follow through on what we had committed," Magaziner said. "And we have had some good successes." Magaziner joined the Clinton Administration five and a half years ago to draft what turned out to be a doomed effort to restructure the nation's health care system. He then turned to the Internet, where he has been aggressively trying to shape domestic and international policy for electronic commerce and governance of the Internet. "At a time when there was a lot of confusion about where the [Internet] industry was going both domestically and internationally, Ira Magaziner was the guy who rolled up his sleeves and got into the nitty-gritty of how technology works, what the effect would be on our society, and then took those notions and began to be the evangelist for the Internet industry in a global marketplace," said Brian O'Shaughnessy, spokesman for the Internet Alliance, one of the world's largest associations of companies with Internet interests. "He's a cerebral guy who took these intellectual ideas and wrestled a lot of very powerful forces to the table... He's certainly been the champion for [Internet] self-governance." In June 1997, after studying the Internet for 15 months, Magaziner released the Administration's "Framework for Electronic Commerce," which called for a hands-off, market-driven approach to regulation of the global network. Magaziner's philosophy then and now is that while the Internet is growing rapidly, this growth could be stymied by excessive government intervention. "For this potential to be realized fully," he wrote in that report, "governments must adopt a nonregulatory, market-oriented approach to electronic commerce, one that facilitates the emergence of a transparent and predictable legal environment to support global business and commerce. Official decision makers must respect the unique nature of the medium and recognize that widespread competition and increased consumer choice should be the defining features of the new digital marketplace." Since then, he has led efforts to hand administration of the global network over to the private sector, and has traveled the world pushing other countries to endorse his tax-free, unregulated approach to the new medium. Magaziner said he is satisfied that he has put the issue of electronic commerce on the world's agenda. In addition to winning passage of two new laws imposing a moratorium on new Internet taxes in the United States and protecting copyrights in the digital age, he has won international agreements to keep the Internet duty-free and set standards for international payment systems. He is also wrapping up what has been a highly contentious effort to hand the administrative functions of the Internet's name and address system over to a private corporation. But as he announces his departure, Magaziner has left one important issue -- online privacy -- unresolved. Magaziner has been the lead cheerleader for industry self-regulation on how personal data is collected and used in electronic databases, a controversial stance that has put the United States directly at odds with the European Union and one that threatens to disrupt electronic commerce with those countries. Critics say he has ignored consumer interests in favor of business. However, others laud his refusal to back down. "Ira...has been working long and hard on behalf of self-governance and not letting the E.U. data directive simply become the rule of the day," O'Shaughnessy said. The European directive that took effect last month imposes strict privacy policies on companies that do business in Europe. A key provision of that law prohibits any company doing business in the European Union from transmitting personal data to any country that does not guarantee comparable privacy protections. The European Union has said that self-regulatory models adopted by industry groups in the United States do not meet its requirements. It has held off on imposing sanctions against the United States until at least December while the governments involved attempt to negotiate a compromise. The Commerce Department this week laid out its negotiating position, which proposes giving companies a variety of "safe harbors" to satisfy privacy protection. One idea is to create independent organizations that would monitor a company's data practices and give companies that comply with accepted guidelines what amounts to a stamp of approval. The E.U. has so far rejected that plan. But Magaziner said the Administration has scored a victory in getting the E.U. to agree to discuss self-regulation as a remedy. "They agreed to hold back, and we are still discussing it with them," he said. "We got them to recognize in February self-regulation as being legitimate. So under their own direction they are saying self-regulatory approaches can work. Now we have to get them to agree to recognize what we are proposing. That may not be finished by the time I leave, but it will be well along." Magaziner has also been leading the effort to move administration of the Internet to an international, nonprofit corporation. That power had been exercised by the United States government -- at first directly, and in recent years under a government contract granting a monopoly on domain name registrations to Network Solutions, a corporation based in Herndon, Va. A driving force toward creation of the new board was the demand by private companies around the world that they be allowed to compete with Network Solutions in the lucrative business of registering domain names. But finding a solution that balances the interests of more traditional, academic institutions with trademark holders and commercial entities with a huge stake in the future of electronic commerce proved difficult, and much controversy still surrounds the plan that Magaziner hopes to finalize this month. Last month, the Administration tentatively approved handing the reins of the Internet over to the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN). This new corporation was set up largely under the direction of one of the Internet's founders, the late Jon Postel. Although the ICANN proposal was presented as having "the support of a broad consensus of Internet stakeholders, private and public," several groups have complained that it was hammered out in secret and still lacks proper fiscal controls and appropriate power checks on future board members. The Department of Commerce has asked the nine-member interim board of ICANN to craft new bylaws that address those concerns, a proposal that is expected to be completed within the next week and which will be the topic of a public meeting next week in Cambridge, Mass. Copyright 1998 The New York Times Company ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From tcmay at got.net Sat Nov 7 12:46:17 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 04:46:17 +0800 Subject: Quick, Dear -- Beat Me In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19981107090029.008caa20@apf2.com> Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1507 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rah at shipwright.com Sat Nov 7 13:26:00 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 05:26:00 +0800 Subject: A question about the new ISP ruling and email... Message-ID: Now *this* should be fun. Someone who claims to be a cypherpunk is now going to call the copyright police on a non-profit, volunteer news list. Cryptoanarchy indeed. The ganglia twitch. When the going gets tough, the "tough" rat out the innocent, it appears... Cheers, Bob Hettinga --- begin forwarded text From: Information Security Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 14:56:55 -0500 (EST) To: cypherpunks at cyberpass.net Subject: Re: A question about the new ISP ruling and email... Sender: owner-cypherpunks at cyberpass.net Precedence: first-class Reply-To: Information Security X-Loop: cypherpunks at cyberpass.net > From: Jim Choate > > Hi, > > I was pondering the draconian implications of the requirement to register > ISP's. Would an email only site be an ISP under these regulations? I dunno. But I've begun netcopping the Ignition-Point list on an ongoing basis (starting Friday), and they'll be an interesting test case of whether what they're doing is "fair use". Pobox.com/listbox.com is reluctantly assigning a person to receive (my) copyright complaints, and will register themselves with the FCO. I like to post whole articles myself. Anyway, for a test case, better them than me. ---guy ;-) --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From honig at sprynet.com Sat Nov 7 13:26:42 1998 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 05:26:42 +0800 Subject: genetic copy protection Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981107124923.007d7660@m7.sprynet.com> A patent on a means to produce seeds which germinate, but which produce plants whose seeds are sterile, was reviewed in Science, p 850, 30 Oct 98 vol 282. The trick is that the seeds are genetically engineered, and the seeds are 'activated' by an antibiotic (which acts like a signal). The purpose is to copy-protect other engineered genes in the organism. US pat 5,723,765 David Honig "When horsemeat is outlawed, only outlaws will eat horsemeat" From phelix at vallnet.com Sat Nov 7 13:52:59 1998 From: phelix at vallnet.com (phelix at vallnet.com) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 05:52:59 +0800 Subject: A question about the new ISP ruling and email... In-Reply-To: <199811071757.LAA02280@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <3646ba82.49389892@news> On 7 Nov 1998 13:50:20 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: > >Would such a commercial entity require registry to be protected? A more interesting question is whether anonymous remailers will need to register. I suspect that there will be a challenge to this law that will lead judges to define what an ISP is. That definition will problably be something like: Any service that allows users to connect to, send, or receive information to/from other sites or any site acting as a conduit for users to communicate with others. Already, companies like Newscene and Newsguy (usenet only services) believe that they will need to register, though they aren't technically ISPs, as most people would think of them. Is an anymous remailer needs to register, what will the implications be? -- Phelix From vznuri at netcom.com Sat Nov 7 13:53:08 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 05:53:08 +0800 Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 6.14: Anonymous eCash Provider-DigiCash-Files Chapter 11 Message-ID: <199811072128.NAA19746@netcom13.netcom.com> From: "ama-gi ISPI" Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 6.14: Anonymous eCash Provider-DigiCash-Files Chapter 11 Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:19:06 -0800 To: ISPI Clips 6.14: Anonymous eCash Provider-DigiCash-Files Chapter 11 News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) Friday November 6, 1998 ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This From: CNET News.com, November 4, 1998 http://www.news.com DigiCash Files Chapter 11 http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,28360,00.html?st.ne.4.head By Tim Clark, timc at cnet.com Staff Writer, CNET News.com Electronic-cash pioneer DigiCash [ http://www.digicash.com/ ] said today it's filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection after shrinking its payroll to about six people from nearly 50 in February. The company, which has been running off a bridge loan from its venture capital investors since June, is seeking new investors from established financial institutions or a buyer for its software technology. The company's operations in the Netherlands, where it was founded, were liquidated in September. "To really launch and brand something like this in the Internet space is likely to take a fair amount more capital," said Scott Loftesness, DigiCash's interim CEO since August. "It's more appropriate for strategic investors, corporate players or banks themselves as a consortium model." Electronic-cash schemes have found difficult sledding recently. First Virtual Holdings [ http://www.firstvirtual.com/ ], which had a form of e-cash, exited the business in July. CyberCash's [ http://www.cybercash.com/ ] CyberCoin offering hasn't really caught on. Digital Equipment, now part of Compaq Computer [ http://www.compaq.com/ ] is testing its Millicent electronic cash, and IBM [ http://www.ibm.com/ ] is in early trials for a product called Minipay. Under bankruptcy laws, DigiCash's Chapter 11 filing allows the company to continue operations, while keeping its creditors at bay as the company reorganizes. Most of DigiCash's $4 million in debt is owed to its initial venture capital financiers who extended the bridge loan, August Capital http://www.augustcap.com/ ], Applied Technology, and Dutch investment firm Gilde Investment. DigiCash's eCash allows consumers to make anonymous payments of any amount--and anonymity differentiates eCash against other e-cash schemes. DigiCash's intellectual property assets include patents, protocols, and software systems that also could be used for applications, like online electronic voting or private scrip issued by a particular retailer. DigiCash suffered a setback in September when the only U.S. bank offering its scheme, Mark Twain Bank, dropped the offering. But a number of major banks in Europe and Australia offer or are testing DigiCash's electronic cash. Also in September, DigiCash closed its Dutch operations and liquidated its assets there. Loftesness said DigiCash has a list of 35-40 potential partners, and he has been talking to players like IBM for months. He expects to resolve DigiCash's status in the next five months. "Everybody feels anonymous e-cash is inevitable, but the existing situation was not going to get there from here," said Loftesness, who is frustrated by potential partners telling him, "This is absolutely strategic, but unfortunately it's not urgent." The company was founded by David Chaum and was well-known in the Internet's earliest days. MIT Media Labs' Nicholas Negroponte is a director of DigiCash. Copyright � 1995-98 CNET, Inc. --------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------ ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research and educational purposes only. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases (up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message "Please enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to: ISPIClips at ama-gi.com . The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia (Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no government funding and takes a global perspective. ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research into electronic, personal and financial privacy with a view toward helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy. But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and generous financial support. If you are concerned about the erosion of your privacy in general, won't you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI Supporter" or by taking out an institute Membership? We gratefully accept all contributions: Less than $60 ISPI Supporter $60 - $99 Primary ISPI Membership (1 year) $100 - $300 Senior ISPI Membership (2 years) More than $300 Executive Council Membership (life) Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership. For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com . We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to any third party. **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From austin at zks.net Sat Nov 7 13:55:16 1998 From: austin at zks.net (Austin Hill) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 05:55:16 +0800 Subject: Response to Anonymous re: Zero-Knowledge Freedom In-Reply-To: <1c2f85724bce6d742c27daa1db101d10@anonymous> Message-ID: <000e01be0a93$49b017a0$1901a8c0@austin.zks.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Attn: Anonymous Thank you for your comments with regards to the Freedom project. I would like to respond to some of the points you have brought up. >-----Original Message----- >From: HyperReal-Anon [mailto:nobody at sind.hyperreal.art.pl] >Sent: Friday, November 06, 1998 7:30 PM >To: austin at zks.net >Subject: > > >Attn: Austin Hill >Zero Knowledge Systems, Inc. >3981 St. Laurent Blvd. >Suite 810 >Montr=E9al, Qu=E9bec >H2W 1Y5 >Canada >514.286.2636 phone >514.286.2755 fax > >Mr. Hill: > >Congratulations. I hope your name goes down in history for being >involved in creating and operating FREEDOM.net > >Additional suggestions for the FREEDOM.NET concept: > >1) Undoubtedly, after your client software is developed and deployed >there will be nations run by legislators and politicians with evil >intentions to continue to restrict and sabotage the privacy of >individuals. If your software already has flexible measures coded into >it to counter these evil forces, privacy seeking citizens from >affected nations will prevail. > >For the client side software, it would be extremely useful to have a >feature (or an input field) where users can view their IP hops >(traceroutes), but more important to allow users to BYPASS all local >FREEDOM servers in their home country (example: if terrible laws are >passed like in the Netherlands requiring logging and storage of all >packet info., etc.). In this manner, a local user in a restrictive >nation could set their client to BYPASS all local FREEDOM servers, >accessing only FREEDOM servers in the nearest friendly nation which >protects privacy of users and allows FREEDOM servers to operate AS YOU >DESIGNED THEM. Even the FSU of Russia has already begun to >implement "black box" requirements at every ISP (only Internet by >satellite will bypass this ?) > >Example: > > **Bypass local FREEDOM SERVER** >Enter the IP address of first FREEDOM server to route >through__________________________________ (user fills in this blank) > Route definitions for use of AnonymousIP nodes is COMPLETELY configurable. A user of Freedom can define preferred exit hops (i.e. 'Make all my pseudonyms IP traffic come from country X'); server's to avoid (i.e. 'Never use any Freedom node in country X'); and some rather advanced custom configurations (i.e. 'Always make my exit hop of of the following countries, use the fastest and best routing point for my first hop and make my middle hop one of the following trusted nodes') With regards to countries such as the Netherlands; and Russia these laws will have no effect on Freedom users. Since all IP traffic leaves the local computer anonymized and multiply encrypted with the different keys for different hops a local ISP that is logging all traffic as per government rules will only be able to log encrypted data and be able to reveal that this user is using Freedom. The ability to define the destination or content of that Internet traffic is not possible. As well, due to the features we have included for traffic analysis foiling, both packets and links are padded to avoid traffic correlation's. Even if an all powerful network attacker with the ability to watch all incoming and outgoing connections to all Freedom nodes attempts to correlate traffic patterns, they will not be able to reveal the true identity behind the pseudonym. The user interface for controlling the Freedom node selection and some of these rules is designed to make it COMPLETELY transparent and easy for the average Internet user. There will be an advanced mode that allows more advanced users to built custom routing profiles that they can associate with a particular pseudonym or with particular destination sites. (i.e. Whenever I browse 'www.playboy.com' use pseudonym 'playboyfan' and routing profile 'Fast routing, no rules except exit hop cannot be in the following Muslim countries'). > >2) It is very possible government spy agencies will secretly arrange >for spy friendly ISP's to obtain your software and setup FREEDOM >servers in their nation. Then, they could write or modify code to >intercept and decrypt incoming packets of data BEFORE it hit the >FREEDOM servers. Can you write secret "test" code or test packets >such that you can send out packets from your Canadian headquarters to >test all FREEDOM servers deployed worldwide to detect all forms of >tampering, and if detected, send emergency emails and post on >newgroups the violators ? > This is essentially the hostile root/hostile node attack. Ultimately we have decided that protecting against a hostile root or node is infeasible. (i.e. Whatever attempts we make to make it impossible to have a hostile node, do not justify themselves because they are not completely effective) We do employ some simple protections to try and avoid amateur hostile nodes (Valid binary checking, periodic unannounced audits for nodes) but a sophisticated and well financed attacker could and most likely will operate a number of nodes in the network. To compromise the identity behind a pseudonym, an attacker would have to control or collude with all the nodes you use in a particular AnonymousIP route. Since a user by default uses three hops, and can configure specific nodes that they trust this reduces the possibility of a single node or a groups of nodes being able to work to compromise a pseudonyms privacy. (i.e. If you decide based on reputation to trust Zero-Knowledge, you might enter into your preferences to always use at least one Zero-Knowledge server in your AnonymousIP routers. This means that as long as that Zero-Knowledge server does not have a hostile root or that we have not been subverted that your identity is protected. You may choose to chain trusted servers (i.e. Use Zero-Knowledge, TOAD.COM and EFF.ORG servers (TOAD.COM; EFF.ORG are just examples - They are not to imply that they are currently committed to operate Freedom nodes) for all my anonymous routes.) Also because Freedom node operators are rewarded financially to operate Freedom nodes, we've found incredible interest in the ISP community to operate Freedom nodes. This will help to increase the total number of Freedom nodes in the network, making it that much harder for a hostile attacker to operate a large percentage of nodes in the network. (i.e. 'If there are only 10 nodes in the network, running 40% of them is quite easy. If there are 700 nodes in the network and a user only needs 3 of them, owning enough of those 700 nodes to have a reasonable chance at always being all 3 hops is less likely.) >3) Curiously, what if Canadian legislators / politicians create laws >similar to what the Dutch parliment enacted recently ? Would you move >your entire company to another nation ? Or, would you have to move the >FREEDOM net server headquarters to another nation ? It seems very >important initially to setup FREEDOM servers in as many nations as >possible to counteract such attempts to destroy the right to internet >privacy. Canada has proven quite committed to the privacy of its citizens and has demonstrated its support for Canada's growing cryptography industries. Many leading cryptography companies are now setup in Canada and able to export strong cryptography without restriction. We believe that Canada will remain a friendly country in which to develop our products and distribute them around the world. In the event that the US or another country were able to convince Canada to ban anonymity/pseudonymity online; or make it illegal to provide these services there are plans and provisions we have made to ensure we are able to continue to provide service to our customers. Because of the distributed nature of the system, it would take a global effort among all countries to ban and make Freedom illegal (A nice soundbyte waiting to happen ;) The US would have a difficult time (According to our lawyers) passing a law making anonymity/pseudonymity illegal or banning the domestic use of encryption products like Freedom. Ultimately this will be another example of 'the cats out of the bag'. There will most likely be some fights because this will be the first time that completely pseudonymous digital identities will be accessible to the layman; or average Internet user - and the technical sophistication of AnonymousIP with pseudonymous identities mapped on top will pose a serious challenge for some government initiatives. But we will be attempting to educate law enforcement; government officials that this tool will be the primary and most effective way of protecting children online (From stalkers and aggressive marketing profiles); protecting privacy (Both archived histories that we cannot separate ourselves from; multiple roles we have that are difficult to separate online right now and privacy from aggressive marketing) and protecting free speech and human rights on a global level. For this education process to be effective, we will need to help government understand that there are better ways of using traditional law enforcement techniques to accomplish their goals. This is the same process that many of the cypherpunks; privacy advocacy groups and lobbyists have already been doing and we will work on supporting those efforts. Initially we will have servers deployed in MANY countries and we have an aggressive marketing plan to ensure that we have high penetration of servers very quickly after we release. > >4) I urge you to try and think ahead, designing as many >countermeasures as possible into the first initial version of client >software, making it as easy as possible for users to circumvent any >harmful measures taken by the evil forces of the dark side. We have designed the system to be as versatile as possible and as hard to shut down as possible. We have included provisions (Might not be in version 1, but can be applied very quickly after) to circumvent country level firewalls or proxy servers so that countries that attempt to ban all IP traffic to the Freedom network will encounter many difficulties. While this is not likely in most North American or European countries (Although the US many attempt it when they implement ISP blocking provisions for offshore gambling sites (Online Gambling Act)and realize that Freedom clients can bypass ISP political filtering of sites) in certain other countries around the world, the initial reaction will be to ban Freedom and add it to a list of filtered sites. Since some of these countries are the ones that have citizens who in the most urgent need of unlimited access to Free Speech, total privacy for their browsing and online activities and the ability to communicate secretly - we've made it very difficult for any country to ban our traffic. > >5) A PARADOX awaits - Serious privacy advocates will want to "test" >your system. One such test would be to sign up and operate as as a >spammer, and use your system to pass on SPAM, or what about malicious >hackers ? If that person is identified or revealed by you, then your >system has been revealed as not a true anonymous system, and there >will be a media feeding frenzy exposing it. But if it IS a truely >anonymous system, you will have no way to identify and locate spammers >or malicious hackers. The SPAM dilemma was one of the more difficult ones that we faced in designing the project. We were aware that if we could not manage the abuse (Spam, harassment, Anonymous hack attempts) then we would quickly become 'blackballed' for most services and a few bad apples could affect all of our legitimate users. We could not have the option of knowing who to hold responsible for abuse because that would include our holding some sort of identity escrow which we specifically did not want and designed the system to make impossible. The alternative we decided on was to invest significantly on making abuse easier through other networks than the Freedom network. Some of the ways we've accomplished this; - -Designed the entire system around untraceable pseudonymity as opposed to anonymity. This re-enforces the reputation capital aspect of having a pseudonym. In general we hope this will promote people who have made an investment in a pseudonym (Both in time, and money) to be careful about how badly the affect the online reputation of that pseudonym. - -Associated a direct cost with a pseudonym By having a cost associated with a pseudonym, many people who would normally take liberties in abusing Internet communication will/do hesitate, since there is the potential of losing that financial investment. - -Forcing 'nymserver' like features of having all outgoing e-mail pass through the Freedom server, signed by both the pseudonym and the Freedom network key to avoid forged spam baiting mail. - -Allowing end users to have destination blocking per recipient and making it easy for them to request not to receive e-mail from a particular pseudonym. (In cases of harassment) - -Developing sophisticated SPAM blocking systems to make our network VERY VERY unfriendly to pseudonyms attempting to send SPAM. (i.e. Max per day recipients limits of 500 or so people; with the limit automatically adjusting to deal with averages of all pseudonyms and number of confirmed spam complaints.) Bulk mailers will have the option of purchasing a more expensive pseudonym that removes any daily limits for recipients but has strict cancellation policies for unsolicited spam (This enables an underground Zine that publishes anonymously to sent out an edition every Friday to 15,000 people; but if someone buys one of the bulk mailing pseudonyms (Around $500+/year) and abuses by sending a massive SPAM we will confirm the spam complaints (Based on digital sig on headers and message) and then have the right to cancel the pseudonyms (Resulting in the Spammer paying $500+ to deliver one spam to many people then losing that pseudonym.) This makes it cheaper to SPAM from other free services or open mail relay systems thereby diverting hard core spammers from making the Freedom network their home. - -Anonymous Telnet host blocking (Site administrators can work with us to block anonymous telnet to their sites) allowing certain sites such as MUDs and Telnet BBS's to allow access but corporate/university sites to restrict access for anonymous telnet. We hope with these and other systems we have taken the time to develop it will help mitigate or reduce the potential of a few malicious users to harm the legitimate Freedom users. Ultimately we have only once choice in dealing with abuse, canceling the pseudonym which will cause a financial loss for someone as well as killing that 'nym and any reputation it has gathered. The terms under which we will cancel a pseudonym will be very clearly posted, and the only other time is when a government agency (Canadian) issues us a court order to turn off a pseudonym. There is NO MEANS possible for us to reveal the identity of a user (Thereby avoiding some of the Penet.Fi style attacks). > >6) It seems unfortunate that some of the larger, "holier than thou, >self righteous" worldwide ISP's (like AOL) will be frustrated at >FREEDOM net not being able to identify who the spammers or hackers >are, and then BLOCK FREEDOM net packets from going through their >servers, starting little electronic wars. These "blocking wars" have >already occured from time to time. Hopefully with the abuse management tools we've made available we will cut off any attempts to block or ban our service. If certain domains/admins feel they still wish to ban Freedom traffic we would work with them to address whatever concerns we can to help restore good routing relations, but in the end it will be up to our users to fight for FREEDOM, if anyone attempts to take it away. Strong letter writing campaigns, boycotts and media attention should all help pressure certain organizations to deal with us on any complaints or issues they have and not treat pseudonyms as second class online citizens. Ultimately this service and peoples pseudonymous digital identities will be as valuable as they make them. By using them frequently, lobbying sites to support pseudonymous identities (For instance for one click authentication and login to web sites), and making sure the get ALL their friends to use pseudonyms then it becomes REALLY difficult to shut the service down or silence millions of users. If there is a small uptake and we only have 100,000 pseudonyms it would be possible to shut the service down without a lot of noise (We'll make as much as we can, but ultimately our users have to help). With 12 million pseudonyms registered and all of them making as much noise as possible to fight any attempts to ban Freedom, there will by a lot more chance of making Freedom completely ubiquitous. > >7) It would really be useful for your staff to address questions/ >concerns like these and others by creating pages regarding these >matters on your website. Hopefully, you are on some of the lists that I am responding to your e-mail with. Most of this information will be posted in time to our web site, but the FAQ's and whitepapers describing most of this are not ready for publication on the web yet. > > >Anonymously Yours, > >P.S. I will only feel comfortable revealing my anonymous self to you >by way of my psuedonym, when I sign up with your service, which I hope >to do as soon as FREEDOM net is ready. > > Thanks for the interest and comments. I hope I've been able to answer most of your questions. ________________________________________________________________________ _ Austin Hill Zero-Knowledge Systems Inc. President Montreal, Quebec Phone: 514.286.2636 Ext. 226 Fax: 514.286.2755 E-mail: austin at zks.net http://www.zks.net Zero Knowledge Systems Inc. - Nothing Personal Changing the world with Zero Knowledge PGP Fingerprints 2.6.3i = 3F 42 A2 0D AF 78 20 ED A2 BB AD BE 8B 40 5E 64 5.5.3i = 77 1E 62 21 B3 F0 EB C0 AA 6C 65 30 56 CA BA C4 94 26 EC 00 keys available at http://www.nai.com/products/security/public_keys/pub_key_default.asp ________________________________________________________________________ _ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.5.3i for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBNkS3qlbKusSUJuwAEQJzNACg7TTSDuipjmCrT78WMWKskdOkzgQAnAnq R4ka2Ne+CMK4FmyAt6qfExJu =paSA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From vznuri at netcom.com Sat Nov 7 15:05:42 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 07:05:42 +0800 Subject: IP: Crunch Time for Y2K Suppliers Message-ID: <199811072128.NAA19724@netcom13.netcom.com> From: believer at telepath.com Subject: IP: Crunch Time for Y2K Suppliers Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 11:22:46 -0600 To: believer at telepath.com Source: Wired http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/16035.html?3 Crunch Time for Y2K Suppliers by Declan McCullagh 4:00 a.m.5.Nov.98.PST The phones are already ringing when Steve Portela arrives at his office every morning. Orders are piling up as they never have before. Walton Feed, his bulk food company, doubled its workforce this year to 125 people and a new warehouse will open in late November. It isn't enough. Orders placed today won't be delivered for six months. "I'm falling further behind every day," Portela complains. The source of Portela's woes? Widespread worries about the Year 2000 computer problem. The looming bug has sent thousands of Americans scrambling to load up on bulk food, generators, solar cells, and gold coins. Some of the products, if ordered today, won't arrive on a customer's doorstep until spring 1999. And delays are expected to grow. Spikes in demand are nothing new to Portela. The Mount St. Helens eruption, the Los Angeles riots, and the last major California earthquake all spurred people into grabbing their credit cards and phoning Walton Feed. From a perch 6,000 feet up in the Idaho mountains, the company has grown into one of the nation's largest bulk food suppliers. But nervous jitters caused by those disruptions are peanuts compared to growing fears that Y2K will snarl electric power, telecommunications, and the banking system. "Add it all together, and Y2K surpasses everything," Portela says. This time it's not just survivalists stockpiling sealed barrels from Walton's extensive selection of wheat, rice, and other dried foods. "It's common everyday folks, people just like you," Portela says of his customers. "We're not talking about any radical people." Other food companies have similar bellyaches. "The demand is amazing -- 99.99 percent of the people we deal with are preparing for Y2K," says Tamera Toups, office manager for Montana-based Peace of Mind Essentials." Unlike Walton's, Peace of Mind Essentials doesn't boast a storeroom full of towering bins of grain. Instead, it places orders that are later filled by warehouses. Toups estimates volume has leapt 500 percent this year. "If anyone doesn't have an order in by the end of April, their chances of getting it before 2000 are pretty slim," she said. "The window might be even smaller than that." You'll still be able to buy bulk food after next April, of course. America Inc., a food exporter, has plenty of it. But Walton Feed makes a niche product prized by Y2Kers: sealed 50-pound drums of food with the oxygen removed, a process that delays spoilage and eliminates grain-munching critters. A year's supply tips the scales at 600 pounds and costs $300, plus shipping. Trying to procure a diesel generator, on the other hand, is shaping up to be increasingly difficult. Loren Day, president of China Diesel Imports, spends a good portion of each day puzzling out how to crank out more and more generators to meet a swell of Y2K orders. Shipments of his company's most popular 8,000-watt model are already running six months behind. "Orders are up about 1,000 percent since the first of the year," Day says. "And the amount of people who will want a generator now is nothing compared to the amount of people who will want a generator later." Day, whose 50-person company is the largest US distributor of diesel generators, usually sells to rural customers who live beyond the reach of electric power lines. "Now with this Y2K thing it's gone crazy," he said. He said he now has the both of the world's largest generator manufacturers running at near capacity to satisfy US demand. Why don't Y2Kers simply pick up a $500 gasoline generator at Home Depot or their local hardware store? Day believes they're so worried about the oft-criticized reliability of the portable units, that they're willing to pay diesel prices, starting at $1,750. "The main thing is the longevity and fuel economy of the diesel," he said. Diesel fuel is an oil, so it keeps longer than gasoline, which spoils after a year. Those Y2K consumers who dread running out of fuel are also turning to renewable energy. "We're totally swamped by Y2K," said Laura Myers, a sales representative for solar equipment distributor Sunelco. "We're beginning to see some lead times on some of our products. By next spring it's going to be insane." Sales at the Hamilton, Montana-based Sunelco have tripled because of Y2K, Myers said. She predicts that orders placed after next spring won't arrive until 2000. "It's been a huge increase," said Davy Rippner, a vice president at Alternative Energy Engineering, a California-based firm. "The things that we're out of and we can't keep in stock are the Baygen [hand-cranked] radios and the Russian-made hand-dynamo flashlights." Then there are the full-blown home solar systems, which start at $3,000 and can range up to $30,000. "A lot of small installers around the country that have been struggling to make a living are now booked for months in advance," said Karen Perez, who publishes Home Power magazine with her husband Richard from the couple's off-the-grid home outside of Ashland, Oregon. The Perez family won't do anything to prepare for Y2K -- except spend time handling the sharp uptick in recent subscriptions to their magazine. "We're six miles from the nearest phone and power line," she said. "As far as Y2K with us, the only thing that I'm planning on doing personally is getting a stash of non-hybrid seeds." Non-hybrid seeds are particularly prized by Y2Kers who stay up nights worrying that potential widespread computer crashes could disrupt food distribution. Most hardware store seeds are hybrid varieties. They grow well, but they can be sterile. Since seeds from hybrid plants may not germinate, some Y2Kers are stockpiling the non-hybrid varieties. "[We've been] getting calls about bulk seeds and buying in quantities and packing them for storage for some period of time," said Dave Smith, vice president of Seeds of Change in Santa Fe, New Mexico. "We definitely think that there will be an increase in sales because of this problem." Burt Blumert doesn't need to speculate. The Burlingame, California, company he owns, Camino Coin, has seen sales of precious metal coins double from last year because of Y2K jitters. "It's widespread now," Blumert said. In May, Blumert began to run ads for a "Y2K Life Preserver," a $3,500 collection of coins that includes British gold sovereigns, silver dollars, and pre-1965 silver dimes and quarters. He markets the collection as a kind of financial Y2K insurance policy, just in case banking glitches or more widespread problems call for a permanent currency. "When people buy gold, they're dropping out," he said. "This is the ultimate dropout, when the institutions themselves aren't working." Copyright � 1994-98 Wired Digital Inc. ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Sat Nov 7 15:05:43 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 07:05:43 +0800 Subject: IP: Discover Alien Life With Your PC And SETI Message-ID: <199811072128.NAA19768@netcom13.netcom.com> From: Richard Sampson Subject: IP: Discover Alien Life With Your PC And SETI Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 08:09:03 -0500 To: "ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com" ****Discover Alien Life With Your PC And SETI TOKYO, JAPAN, 1998 NOV 5 (Newsbytes) -- By Martyn Williams, Newsbytes. The SETI at home project, which hopes to harness the idle processing power of thousands of desktop personal computers to help in the search for intelligent life in the universe, is back on track with an April 1999 launch date. The project was launched in mid 1997 and was scheduled to begin operations early this year (Newsbytes, August 18, 1997) but the launch was delayed after funding problems slowed research and development work. Now, with new funding and hardware donated by Sun Microsystems, the project is back on track. Hoping to attract the millions of computer users that believe in the existence of intelligent life in space, the project will be based around a special screensaver. Like any screensaver, the software kicks in when you aren't using your PC but unlike other software, the SETI at home application won't present you with a banal selection of flying windows of swimming fish. Instead, it will be doing something much more useful: analyzing radio frequency spectrum data captured by the Arecibo radio telescope in Puerto Rico. The analysis is searching for a signal out of all the noise from space - a signal that may reveal the existence of intelligent life. The project team estimates that once 50,000 PCs are enrolled in the project, the SETI at home program will rival other similar SETI (search for extraterrestrial intelligence) programs that are looking for signals from space and may turn up signals that would otherwise be missed. The program works like this: data is collected from SERENDIP, a SETI project based at UC Berkeley, on magnetic tape and transferred to SETI at home servers. This data is then distributed to participating PC users as they log onto the Internet and the data is analyzed on their PCs. Once finished, the results are returned to the project servers via the Internet. First tests of the system, with 100 volunteers, has just begun and the project hopes to make available the first generation SETI at home screensavers in April 1999. These will be available for Windows, Apple and Unix based platforms. What's in it for the user? Apart from helping science, the team says, "There's a small but captivating possibility that your computer will detect the faint murmur of a civilization beyond Earth." For more information on the project, how to offer your spare computer capacity and how to donate money, check the SETI at home Web page at http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu . Numerous foreign language versions of the page are also available. Reported By Newsbytes News Network, http://www.newsbytes.com -0- (19981105/WIRES ONLINE/) News provided by COMTEX. [!BUSINESS] [!HIGHTECH] [!INFOTECH] [!PUBLIC+COMPANIES] [!WALL+STREET] [COMPUTER] [HARDWARE] [INTERNET] [JAPAN] [MONEY] [NBY] [NEWS] [NEWSGRID] [PUERTO+RICO] [RADIO] [RESEARCH] [SCIENCE] [SOFTWARE] [TOKYO] -- ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Sat Nov 7 15:05:56 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 07:05:56 +0800 Subject: IP: TOTALITARIAN TECHNOLOGY Message-ID: <199811072128.NAA19735@netcom13.netcom.com> From: Bill Kingsbury Subject: IP: TOTALITARIAN TECHNOLOGY Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 14:47:59 -0500 To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com from: http://www.newdawnmagazine.com.au/50a.htm=20 TOTALITARIAN TECHNOLOGY -- The Truth is Closer Than Fiction --------------------------------- By SUSAN BRYCE=20 Over the last decade, Hollywood has sensitised us to totalitarian technology. Block buster movies portray our heroes and heroines using the weapons of the new millennium. Militarised police forces keep citizens safe; android warrior personnel, part human, part robot are gainfully employed as global peacekeepers; prisoners are incarcerated in high tech electronic jails, controlled with implanted microchips, while the free population is kept under surveillance through the use of biometric identity systems.=20 Science fiction perhaps? Reality yes! Much of what we see on the big screen is not the latest fantasy of Hollywood script writers, but is based on fact. Any film maker wanting a picture of the future need look no further than existing military technology and research. =20 A recent report published by the European Parliament, "An Appraisal of the Technologies of Political Control", shows just how far these new technologies have come, and how they are being actively employed against citizens in countries across the globe.=20 The report warns of "an overall technological and decision drift towards world wide convergence of nearly all the technologies of political control", including identity recognition; denial; surveillance systems based on neural networks; new arrest and restraint methods and the emergence of so called `less lethal' weapons.=20 Developments in surveillance technology, innovations in crowd control weapons, new prison control systems, the rise of more powerful restraint, torture, killing and execution technologies and the role of privatised enterprises in promoting such technologies pose a grave threat to our immediate and future freedoms.=20 Trade in Technologies of Control=20 Cutting edge developments made by the Western military-industrial complex are providing invaluable support to various governments throughout the world. The report "Big Brother Incorporated", by surveillance watchdog Privacy International, presents a detailed analysis of the international trade in surveillance technology. =20 Privacy International says it is concerned about "the flow of sophisticated computer-based technology from developed countries to developing countries -- and particularly to non-democratic regimes where surveillance technologies become tools of political control." =20 The international trade in surveillance technology (known as the Repression Trade), involves the manufacture and export of technologies of political control. More than seventy per cent of companies manufacturing and exporting surveillance technology also export arms, chemical weapons or military hardware.=20 The justification advanced by the companies involved in this trade is identical to the justification advanced in the arms trade -- i.e.: that the technology is neutral. Privacy International's view is that in the absence of legal protection, the technology can never be neutral. =20 As "Big Brother Incorporated" points out, "even those technologies intended for `benign' uses rapidly develop more sinister purposes. The UK manufactured `Scoot' traffic control cameras in Beijing's Tianamen Square were automatically employed as surveillance cameras during the student demonstrations. Images captured from the cameras were broadcast over Chinese television to ensure that the `offending' students were captured." =20 Privacy International cites numerous cases where this type of technology has been obtained for the express purpose of political and social control...=20 -- ICL (International Computers Limited) provided the technological infrastructure to establish the South African automated Passbook system, upon which much of the function of the apartheid regime depended. =20 -- In the 1980s Israeli company Tadiram developed and exported the technology for the computerised death list used by the Guatemalan police. =20 -- Reported human rights abuses in Indonesia -- particularly those affecting East Timor -- would not be possible without the strategic and technological support of Western companies. Among those companies supplying the Indonesian police and military with surveillance and targeting technology are Morpho Systems (France), De la Ruue Printak (UK), EEV Night Vision (UK), ICL (UK), Marconi Radar and Control Systems (UK), Pyser (UK), Siemens Plessey Defense Systems (UK), Rockwell International Corporation (USA) and SWS Security (USA). =20 Tools of Repression for 'Democratic' States=20 We should not forget that the same companies supplying regimes with repression technology, also supply `democratic' states with their totalitarian tools. =20 Leutcher Associates Inc. of Massachusetts supplies and services American gas chambers, as well as designing, supplying and installing electric chairs, auto-injection systems and gallows. The Leutcher lethal injection system costs approximately $30,000 and is the cheapest system the company sells. Their electrocution systems cost =A335,000 and a gallows would cost approximately $85,000. More and more US states are opting for Leutcher's $100,000 "execution trailer" which comes complete with a lethal injection machine, a steel holding cell for an inmate, and separate areas for witnesses, chaplain, prison workers and medical personnel. Some companies in Europe have even offered to supply gallows.=20 In the 1970's, J.A. Meyer of the US Defense Department suggested a countrywide network of transceivers for monitoring all prisoners on parole, via an irremovable transponder implant. The idea was that parolees movements could be continuously checked and the system would facilitate certain areas or hours to be out of bounds, whilst having the economic advantage of cutting down on the costs of clothing and feeding the prisoner. If prisoners go missing, the police could automatically home in on their last position. =20 Meyer's vision came into operational use in America in the mid 1980's, when some private prisons started to operate a transponder based parole system. The system has now spread into Canada and Europe where it is known as electronic tagging. Whilst the logic of tagging is difficult to resist, critics argue that the recipients of this technology appear not to be offenders who would have been imprisoned, but rather low risk offenders who are most likely to be released into the community anyway. Because of this, the system is not cheaper since the authorities gain the added expense of supplying monitoring devices to offenders who would have been released anyway. Electronic tagging is however beneficial to the companies who sell such systems. Tagging also has a profitable role inside prisons in the US and in some prisons, notably, DeKalb County Jail near Atlanta, where all prisoners are bar coded.=20 'Non-Lethal' Technology of Control=20 The increasing militarisation of police forces throughout the world is reflected in the spread of "less lethal" weapons such as pepper gas. Benignly referred to by the media as "capsicum spray", pepper gas was recently used by Australian police in the state of Victoria to subdue a man. According to media reports, the Victorian police also used "a weapon they don't want to disclose". =20 The effects of pepper gas are far more severe than most people realise. It is known to cause temporary blindness, a burning sensation of the skin which lasts from 45 to 60 minutes, upper body spasms which force a person to bend forward and uncontrollable coughing making it difficult to breathe or speak for between 3 to 15 minutes.=20 For those with asthma or subject to restraining techniques which restrict the breathing passages, there is a risk of death. The Los Angeles Times has reported at least 61 deaths associated with police use of pepper spray since 1990 in the USA, and the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) has documented 27 deaths in custody of people sprayed with pepper gas in California alone, since 1993.=20 The US Army concluded in a 1993 Aberdeen Proving Ground study that pepper spray could cause "Mutagenic effects, carcinogenic effects, sensitization, cardiovascular and pulmonary toxicity, neuro-toxicity, as well as possible human fatalities." =20 The existing arsenal of weapons designed for public order and control will soon be joined by a second generation of kinetic, chemical, optico-acoustic, and microwave weapons, adding to the disabling and paralysing technologies already available. Much of the initial work on these new technologies has been undertaken in US nuclear laboratories such as Oak Ridge, Lawrence Livermore and Los Alamos. The European Parliament Report "An Appraisal of the Technologies of Political Control" lists a Pandora's box of new technologies including:=20 -- Ultra-sound generators, which cause disorientation, vomiting and involuntary defecation, disturbing the ear system which controls balance and inducing nausea. The system which uses two speakers can target individuals in a crowd. =20 -- Visual stimulus and illusion techniques such as high intensity strobes which pulse in the critical epileptic fit-inducing flashing frequency and holograms used to project active camouflage. =20 -- Reduced energy kinetic weapons. Variants on the bean bag philosophy which ostensibly will result in no damage (similar claims were once made about plastic bullets). =20 -- New disabling, calmative, sleep inducing agents mixed with DMSO which enables the agent to quickly cross the skin barrier and an extensive range of pain causing, paralysing and foul-smelling area-denial chemicals. Some of these are chemically engineered variants of the heroin molecule. They work extremely rapidly, one touch and disablement follows. Yet one person's tranquillisation may be another's lethal dose. =20 -- Microwave and acoustic disabling systems. =20 -- Human capture nets which can be laced with chemical irritant or electrified to pack an extra disabling punch. =20 -- Lick `em and stick `em technology such as the Sandia National Laboratory's foam gun which expands to between 35-50 times its original volume. Its extremely sticky, gluing together any target's feet and hands to the pavement. =20 -- Aqueous barrier foam which can be laced with pepper spray. =20 -- Blinding laser weapons and isotrophic radiator shells which use superheated gaseous plasma to produce a dazzling burst of laser like light. =20 -- Thermal guns which incapacitate through a wall by raising body temperature to 107 degrees. =20 -- Magnetosphere gun which delivers what feels like a blow to the head. =20 "An Appraisal of the Technologies of Political Control" says "we are no longer at a theoretical stage with these weapons. US companies are already piloting new systems, lobbying hard and where possible, laying down potentially lucrative patents." For example, last year New Scientist reported that the American Technology Corporation (ATC) of Poway, California has used what it calls acoustical heterodyning technology to target individuals in a crowd with infra-sound to pinpoint an individual 200-300 metres away. The system can also project sonic holograms which can conjure audio messages out of thin air so just one person hears them. Meanwhile, Jane's reported that the US Army Research Laboratory has produced a variable velocity rifle for lethal or non lethal use -- a new twist to flexible response. Other companies are promoting robots for use in riot and prison control.=20 Advances in Biometric Identification=20 Through the inevitability of gradualness, repression technology, in the form of biometric identity systems, is permeating our every day life. Biometry involves using a physical characteristic such as a fingerprint, palm print, iris or retina scan to identify individuals. These unique identity charact-eristics are digitally stored on a computer system for verification. This way, the identity of each person can be compared to the stored original. Christians will be interested to note that with biometric systems, the original print is stored not as a `picture' but as an algorithm. The number of your name will be literally in your hand (thumb print) or in your forehead (eyes).=20 Biometric identification is not something that we just see at the movies. It is here, it is with us now. Governments in Australia, the USA and the UK are planning its widespread introduction by 2005. =20 Both the Dutch and Australian public rejected plans for a national information and identification scheme en masse several years ago, but have reacted more passively to equally intrusive (but less blatant) schemes in the 1990's.=20 Uses of the Social Security Number in the USA, the Social Insurance Number in Canada, the Tax File Number in Australia, the SOFI Number in the Netherlands and the Austrian Social Security Number have been extended progressively to include taxation, unemployment support, pensioner benefits and, in some cases, health and higher education. Functional creep is rampant.=20 Large scale government computer based schemes have been shown in several countries to be much less cost-effective than was originally estimated. Years after the governments of the United States and Australia developed schemes to match public sector data, there is still no clear evidence that the strategy has succeeded in achieving its goals. The audit agencies of both federal governments have cast doubt that computer matching schemes deliver savings. =20 A nationwide survey by Columbia University last year reported that 83% of people approve of the use of finger imaging. Biometrics is being embraced on a global scale. The Australian company, Fingerscan, a subsidiary of Californian based Identix Inc, recently won one of the biggest bank contracts for biometric security in the world. Fingerscan is working with the Bank of Central Asia in Jakarta, Indonesia to replace numeric passwords for employees at 5000 branches with fingerprint based system access.=20 Fingerscan also has the world's largest application of biometrics in the servicing of automated teller machines. In conjunction with contractor Armaguard, which services ATMs for Australian banks, many ATMs are now unlocked by the representative's fingerprint. The representative brings a portable scanning device that plugs into the back of the ATM and connects the bank's server which grants him or her admittance. =20 The US government has a deadline of 1999 to implement electronic benefits processing for welfare recipients, but this may be delayed to accommodate biometrics, which is currently being piloted in five American states. The Australian government will introduce a biometric identity system for welfare recipients by 2005.=20 Blue Cross and Blue Shield in the USA have plans to introduce nationwide fingerprinting for hospital patients. This may be extended into other medical applications. The Jamaican Government is planning to introduce electronic thumb scanning to control elections. Social Security verification using biometrics is used in Spain and South Africa. In 1994, the UK Department of Social Security developed a proposal to introduce a national identification card, which recommended a computerised database of the hand-prints of all 30 million people receiving government income assistance. =20 Big Brother's International Network of Surveillance=20 Biometric identification is the technology of today and the future. It is not a matter of if, but when, a global network of computers will link all stored biometric images in a central location, managed by a collective of international authorities. =20 In 1994, under the leadership of US Centre for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), a consortium of the world's leading companies formed the Global Information Infrastructure Commission (GIIC). Headed by the president of Mitsubishi, the chair of EDS, and the vice chair of Siemens Corporation, the GIIC intends to create a conglomerate of interests powerful enough to subsume government interest in the regulation of biometric and other technologies. The effort is being funded to a large extent by the World Bank.=20 Governments in 26 countries are, at this moment, monitoring and cooperating with project FAST (Future Automated Screening for Travelers). FAST was first piloted in 1993 by US immigration authorities when a new lane at New York's John F. Kennedy airport was opened. The technology for the system is known as INPASS (Immigration and Natur-alization Service Passenger Accelerated Service System) which is a biometric identification system used to expedite passengers through customs at international airports in as little as 20 seconds.=20 Applicants for registration with FAST are interviewed, and identity confirmed. Hand prints are taken, converted to a template and stored digitally on a smart card. Once the last of five green lights appear at the tips of the fingers, the glass exit door opens and the passenger continues to the baggage claim and customs zone. The system is currently a voluntary trial for frequent travellers to and from the USA who are US or Canadian nationals. =20 With new technology, travelers can rest assured that their security is always in good hands. The US Militech Corporation has developed a Passive Millimeter Wave Imaging system, which can scan people from up to 12 feet away and see through clothing to detect concealed items such as weapons, packages and other contraband. Variations of this through-clothing human screening are under development by companies such as the US Raytheon Corporation, and will be an irresistible addition to international airports everywhere.=20 Once upon a time, surveillance was targeted at certain groups and individuals. In our time, surveillance occurs en masse. Much of the `harmless' computer based technology necessary for our daily lives could actually be used to keep the entire population under surveillance. =20 Telephone systems lend themselves to a dual role as a national interceptions network, according to "An Appraisal of the Technologies of Political Control". For example, the message switching system used on digital exchanges like System X in the UK, supports an Integrated Services Digital Network (ISDN) Protocol. This allows digital devices, e.g. faxes, to share the system with existing lines. The ISDN subset is defined in their documents as "Signaling CCITT"-series interface for ISDN access. =20 What is not widely known is that built-in to the international CCITT protocol is the ability to take phones `off hook' and listen into conversations occurring near the phone, without the user being aware that it is happening. This effectively means that a national dial up telephone tapping capacity is built into these systems from the start. Further, the digital technology required to pinpoint mobile phone users for incoming calls means that all mobile phones in a country when activated, are mini-tracking devices.=20 The issues surrounding the uncontrolled and unregulated spread of tyrannical technology are immediate and ongoing. The technologies of repression that are trialed in so-called non-democratic countries are now being aggressively marketed in the West, while Hitler's Germany becomes a vague memory. It is up to us to do what ever we can to stop the insidious spread of this technology, and to demand the right to choose whether we participate in the biometric system or not. We should ask ourselves... who will heed our cry for help once these technologies are fully implemented? =20 REFERENCES=20 Davies, Simon, "Touching Big Brother", Information Technology People, Vol 7, No 4, 1994=20 Elllerman, Sarah, "The Rise of Tempest", Internet Underground Magazine, June 1996.=20 European Parliament, Scientific and Technical Operations Assessment, 1998, "An Appraisal of Technologies of Political Control", available at http://jya.com/stoa-atpc.com=20 Jane's US Military R & D, "Human Computer Interface, Vol 1, Issue 3 1997=20 O'Sullivan, Olara, "Biometrics comes to Life", http://www.banking.com/aba/cover_0197.htm=20 Privacy International, 1995, "Big Brother Incorporated", http://www.privacy.org/pi=20 US Scientific Advisory Board, "New World Vistas", the proceedings of Fiftieth Anniversary Symposium of the USAF SAB, November 10, 1994, (republished by International Committee for the Convention Against Offensive Microwave Weapons).=20 Susan Bryce is an investigative journalist and researcher whose interests include issues which affect individual freedom, environmental health, surveillance technology and global politics. She can be contacted c/- Mapleton Post Office, QLD 4560 **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Sat Nov 7 15:08:02 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 07:08:02 +0800 Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 6.10: Washington to Seek Public's Advice on EU Privacy Laws Message-ID: <199811072128.NAA19713@netcom13.netcom.com> From: "ama-gi ISPI" Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 6.10: Washington to Seek Public's Advice on EU Privacy Laws Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 00:29:18 -0800 To: ISPI Clips 6.10: Washington to Seek Public's Advice on EU Privacy Laws News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) Thursday November 5, 1998 ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This From: Fox News, November 4, 1998 http://www.foxnews.com U.S. Negotiators Ask For Public Feedback in Talks With Europe Over Privacy Law http://www.foxnews.com/js_index.sml?content=/news/wires2/1104/n_ap_1104_334 .sml NEW YORK � Raising the stakes in its talks with Europe over a new privacy law there, the Commerce Department on Wednesday publicly reaffirmed a laissez-faire approach toward protecting personal privacy that remains at odds on key positions taken by European negotiators. The Commerce Department released a statement for public feedback that details its basic position in the talks. The talks attempt to resolve deep differences over a sweeping European privacy measure that has the potential to disrupt some commerce with the United States. The law took effect on Oct. 26, but sanctions were suspended while the talks go on. U.S. firms from global drug makers to direct marketers doing business in Europe fear the new directive could bar them from using customers' confidential information for everything from valuable scientific research to junk mail, stifling business commerce. In its position paper, the U.S. reiterated its view that U.S. companies should not be forced to give people access to personal information about themselves. In addition, companies should have the option to choose an independent industry group to police its privacy policies, instead of a government body, as required by the European law. "For now, we're trying to get (Europe's) reaction to these principles themselves,'' said David Aaron, under secretary of Commerce. Aaron said the United States wants to give companies "safe harbors'' to satisfy privacy protection demands. Some experts said the government's seeking of public comment could suggest that the United States may seek to modify its position if enough people favor the European approach. "This is significant because it is the first time that the Commerce Department has asked for public comment on its negotiating position with the European Union,'' said Joel Reidenberg, a law professor at Fordham University and an expert on U.S.-Europe relations. A Commerce Department spokeswoman said the principles would be posted on its Web site. � 1998, News America Digital Publishing, Inc. d/b/a Fox Market Wire. --------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------ ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research and educational purposes only. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases (up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message "Please enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to: ISPIClips at ama-gi.com . The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia (Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no government funding and takes a global perspective. ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research into electronic, personal and financial privacy with a view toward helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy. But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and generous financial support. If you are concerned about the erosion of your privacy in general, won't you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI Supporter" or by taking out an institute Membership? We gratefully accept all contributions: Less than $60 ISPI Supporter $60 - $99 Primary ISPI Membership (1 year) $100 - $300 Senior ISPI Membership (2 years) More than $300 Executive Council Membership (life) Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership. For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com . We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to any third party. **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From vznuri at netcom.com Sat Nov 7 15:09:21 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 07:09:21 +0800 Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 6.17: FCC Accepting Comments on Mandatory Cell Phone Tracking Message-ID: <199811072128.NAA19757@netcom13.netcom.com> From: "ama-gi ISPI" Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 6.17: FCC Accepting Comments on Mandatory Cell Phone Tracking Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:26:49 -0800 To: ISPI Clips 6.17: FCC Accepting Comments on Mandatory Cell Phone Tracking News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) Friday November 6, 1998 ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Part One: This From: Coalition for Constitutional Liberties, Weekly Update for 11/06/98 Volume I, Number 37 http://www.freecongress.org/cfcl/latest.htm Comment Period for CALEA Wiretapping Regulations Announced The Federal Communications Commission announced this week that it would be accepting comments in response to its Notice of Proposed Rule Making until December 14th. The Commission proposed requiring cellular and other wireless phone companies to track the location of their customers, identifying the cell site at the beginning and end of every call. Weekly Update readers and organizations are encouraged to submit their written comments to the FCC: Federal Communications Commission 1919 M St. Washington, DC 20554 Re: Docket # 97-213 The Center for Democracy and Technology has set up a website for those interested in filing comments: http://www.cdt.org/action/filing.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Part Two: This From: The Center for Democracy and Technology, October 28, 1998 http://www.cdt.org FCC PROPOSES LOCATION TRACKING FOR WIRELESS PHONES http://www.cdt.org/action/filing.html As the FBI has realized, new communications technology can be designed in ways that vastly increase the potential for government surveillance. Cellular and other wireless phones can generate information that can be used to locate individuals even if they aren't suspected of a crime. The FCC, with urging from the FBI, is considering a proposal to use your cellphone as a personal tracking device. This unprecedented attack on your privacy must be opposed. Cellular phones have become integral to many peoples' lives. Over fifty million ordinary Americans carry cellular phones with them as they go about their daily activities. Cellular phones are far more closely linked to an individual than are wireline phones. In essense, a cellular phone can become a tracking device, revealing to the government far more about your whereabouts, your associations, and your activities than the government can learn about you from the fact that your home phone was used to make a call a particular time of day. In 1994, when this topic was being debated in Congress, FBI Director Freeh testified that location information was not mandated by law. FBI Director Freeh testified that the law, "does not include any information which might disclose the general location of a mobile facility or service." Congress wanted to protect privacy, and took the FBI at its word that it would not seek to use cellphones as citizen tracking devices. Now the FCC, with urging from the FBI, is proposing to rewrite the law, requiring location information as part of a nationwide surveillance capability. This will allow the FBI to use your cellphone as a personal tracking device. --------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------ ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research and educational purposes only. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases (up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message "Please enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to: ISPIClips at ama-gi.com . The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia (Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no government funding and takes a global perspective. ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research into electronic, personal and financial privacy with a view toward helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy. But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and generous financial support. If you are concerned about the erosion of your privacy in general, won't you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI Supporter" or by taking out an institute Membership? We gratefully accept all contributions: Less than $60 ISPI Supporter $60 - $99 Primary ISPI Membership (1 year) $100 - $300 Senior ISPI Membership (2 years) More than $300 Executive Council Membership (life) Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership. For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy at ama-gi.com . We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to any third party. **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From wwwnet65 at mailexcite.com Sun Nov 8 07:41:19 1998 From: wwwnet65 at mailexcite.com (wwwnet65 at mailexcite.com) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 07:41:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: Advertise to Millions On-Line...New WWW Marketing Package Message-ID: <199811081541.HAA29750@toad.com> To automatically be removed from all future mailings please reply with "Remove" in the subject heading. ----------------------------------------- Keep reading to find out how you can...Reach MILLIONS of potential Customers Overnight! 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Message-ID: Hi there, I saw an article posted about "shortages" of electric power generators and other Y2K "survival" goods, such as grains in airtight drums. My reading of the article gave me a feel that those products are bullshit products geared towards naive losers, and can be easily replaced with much cheaper products that can be bought at discount stores. More careful reading of the article showed that only certain high power diesel generators are scarce. A visit to my local discount retailer has shown that there are 10KW gasoline generators available for as little as $500. 10KW is far more than I would need in an emergency. (I will probably need about 2KW). Questions: 1) Aside from probably lower power, are those cheaper generators somehow worse? 2) How reliable are those cheaper generators? 3) What is their expected lifetime, in hours of operation? 4) How hard is it to service them? 5) How do you connect them to the electric system, to properly use them as backup? (this may be a stupid question, but I am not very familiar with American system of electric wiring). 6) How much gasoline do they consume if you draw 2KW power from them? Thank you. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);} \=/, _-===-_-====-_-===-_-==========-_-====-_ | @___oo ( )_ /\ /\ / (___,,,}_--= ) ) /^\) ^\/ _) =__ Anything is good and useful if ) ) /^\/ _) (_ ) ) _ / / _) ( it's made of chocolate. ) /\ )/\/ || | )_) (_ ) < > |(,,) )__) ( http://www.algebra.com/~ichudov ) || / \)___)\ (_ _) | \____( )___) )___ -==-_____-=====-_____-=====-___== \______(_______;;; __;;; From stuffed at stuffed.net Sun Nov 8 08:50:35 1998 From: stuffed at stuffed.net (STUFFED SUN NOV 8) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 08:50:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY! Message-ID: <19981108081000.9047.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com> + 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS + 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES + ADULT INTERNET XXX + BONEME.COM + EARTHQUAKE NUDE WOMEN + SIMPLY STUNNING + HENTAI BIJUTU + ULTIMATE SLUTS + TABBY'S 007 PUSSY + MASTURB8 + INSTANT BONER + EROTICA EXOTICA + BONUS PIC 1 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/25388.htm + BONUS PIC 2 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/24585.htm + BONUS PIC 3 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/1257.htm + BONUS PIC 4 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/2462.htm + BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/27831.htm + MUCH, MUCH MORE! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- This email is never sent unsolicited. Stuffed is the supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full instructions on unsubscribing are in every issue of Eureka! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- From schear at lvcm.com Sat Nov 7 17:42:46 1998 From: schear at lvcm.com (Steve Schear) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 09:42:46 +0800 Subject: ISPs now responsible for Pirated Material In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 07:29:38 -0500 >To: general at la-ma.org >From: Doug Krick >Subject: ISPs now responsible for Pirated Material >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Sender: owner-general at la-ma.org >Precedence: bulk > >http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,28357,00.html?st.ne.fd.mdh > >Summary: IF a local ISP doesn't register with the goverment, per a new law >Clinton signed this week, the ISP can be held legally responsible for any >pirated material that may be on their site. Not really a problem. Its one thing to require a contact person. It's quite another to get an ISP to provide sufficient resources to adequately police its feed. In many of the Usenet .warez. groups, for example, postings expire after only a few hours/days. By the time action is taken its gone anyway. The ISPs made a very good argument, in the SC CDA hearings, that policing their feeds and access was impractical. Sounds like this could be pretty much the same problem. I wonder how Eternity servers, using Usenet references, would be treated under these regs? --Steve From rah at shipwright.com Sat Nov 7 17:42:59 1998 From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 09:42:59 +0800 Subject: [E-CARM] Identification and Privacy are not Antinomies Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text X-Authentication-Warning: c3po.kc-inc.net: majordomo set sender to owner-e-carm at lists.kc-inc.net using -f Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 19:52:59 -0200 (EDT) From: Ed Gerck To: Robert Hettinga cc: E-CARM , DIGSIG at LISTSERV.TEMPLE.EDU Subject: Re: [E-CARM] Identification and Privacy are not Antinomies MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-e-carm at c3po.kc-inc.net Precedence: bulk On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, Robert Hettinga wrote: >Don't blame me, blame the remailer? Bob: If the e-mail below was forwarded through you, it means that you thought it is useful to these lists and that you also found some nexus in the argument line used by the, huh... author. However, neither you nor the huh... author seem to hold a steady line of argument, as of course, you are indeed to be blamed without recourse for this piece of tasteless non-sense being further reproduced on the Net. My intent with my original posting (available at http://www.mcg.org.br/antinomy.txt, as proof) was NOT to criticize the Clinton administration on an initiative which is in accord with current practices worldwide -- but to show that there is a better and privacy-protecting solution when identification is modelled using coherence functions. Further, my intent was to show that biometrics is perishable and not self-secure, which reasons alone would seem to rule it out in the case. THUS, MY SOLE REASON FOR THIS REJOINDER IS TO MAKE THAT CLEAR. However, the Net is an amplifier -- it just provides raw power. The question is how it is used. You and I have duly performed our duties as estimulated emission sources, albeit with different filter functions. Cheers, Ed Gerck. > >Cheers, >Bob Hettinga > >--- begin forwarded text > > >Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 20:26:24 +0100 >From: Anonymous >Comments: This message did not originate from the Sender address above. > It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer software. > Please report problems or inappropriate use to the > remailer administrator at . >Subject: Identification and Privacy are not Antinomies >To: cypherpunks at cyberpass.net >Sender: owner-cypherpunks at cyberpass.net >Precedence: first-class >Reply-To: Anonymous >X-Loop: cypherpunks at cyberpass.net > >Aaww horseplops[1]! In fact, great, festering, mid-path, sole-sticking >horseplops! This argument is vacuous. As every small child knows, >authentication != identification and, in most cases, only authentication >is required and, the absence of identification implies privacy. > >Am I a UK citizen, a good credit risk, a club member in good >standing, etc. An appropriate mechanism, a smartcard, can easily >authenticate both itself (challenge-response) and the bearer via a biometric >and/or PIN without revealing the identity of the holder. > >However, who holds out hope that such a sensible >thing would ever be adopted by the powers-that-be. > >Nematode > >[1] The plop is a useful measure of human cogitation. As every small child >knows, much good thinking is done whilst enthroned on the commode, since >the evacuation of feces from the anus promotes the introduction of fresh >material into the brain through the ears. After years of experimentation >and careful measurement, we (the ISO labs) have observed a strong correlation >between ideas and fecal bombardment of the receptive commodal pool and audible >emissions therefrom. For example, it required only 0.3 plops to decide to vote >for Clinton while a similar decision in favor of John Major required almost >5 plops. >For the purposes of comparison, 10^6 homosapiens plop = 1 horseplop. While the >relationship between megaplops, flops and MIPS is not yet clear, our >ISO plop standard should be emitted soon. > >-----BEGIN PLOP SIGNATURE----- >Version: PLOP for Personal Privacy >Charset: nocommode > >NSACIAMOUSEaw6mkJhRWnHTzAQFMlgP/ZMM+14qUzy+w6AGSlOtAyrE2BBDSV3Hm >Tlc0Ct7wyXV2CPEMzieCm4ZS0rzigkgTZTMCmEqYexEJkdSAU60WMHm3cr28UJIG >ekx7N7aWKQ34u05dRrE+IVR329y0ia/2F8B7edZ7CqoydOJAnQxNIB1qohlCGlGT >RYgOGVSpO04= >=MF1K >-----END PLOP SIGNATURE----- > >--- end forwarded text > > >----------------- >Robert A. Hettinga >Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism >44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA >"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, >[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to >experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' >=========================================================================== >Help with Majordomo commands plus list archives and information is >available through the E-CARM web page at http://www.kc-inc.net/e-carm/. >Sponsored by The Knowledge Connection. >=========================================================================== > ______________________________________________________________________ Dr.rer.nat. E. Gerck egerck at novaware.cps.softex.br http://novaware.cps.softex.br =========================================================================== Help with Majordomo commands plus list archives and information is available through the E-CARM web page at http://www.kc-inc.net/e-carm/. Sponsored by The Knowledge Connection. =========================================================================== --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From davidwatts_98 at yahoo.com Sat Nov 7 18:48:30 1998 From: davidwatts_98 at yahoo.com (David Watts) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 10:48:30 +0800 Subject: A question about the new ISP ruling and email... Message-ID: <19981108022534.28767.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com> Here's the definition of ISP in the legislation (H.R. 2281 at http://thomas.loc.gov). `(1) SERVICE PROVIDER- (A) As used in subsection (a), the term `service provider' means an entity offering the transmission, routing, or providing of connections for digital online communications, between or among points specified by a user, of material of the user's choosing, without modification to the content of the material as sent or received. `(B) As used in this section, other than subsection (a), the term `service provider' means a provider of online services or network access, or the operator of facilities therefor, and includes an entity described in subparagraph (A). Subsection (a) deals with limiting ISP liability for transmitting infringing material. Other subsections deal with caching, hosting, linking, taking down infringing material, liability for those who knowingly misrepresent that material is infringing, and rights of copyright owners to subpoena ISPs for identification information of alleged infringers. The requirement to register with the Copyright Office and designate a contact person applies only as to liability for hosted material. However, in order to be eligible for any of the liability limitations, ISPs must meet the following conditions: `(i) CONDITIONS FOR ELIGIBILITY- `(1) ACCOMMODATION OF TECHNOLOGY- The limitations on liability established by this section shall apply to a service provider only if the service provider-- `(A) has adopted and reasonably implemented, and informs subscribers and account holders of the service provider's system or network of, a policy that provides for the termination in appropriate circumstances of subscribers and account holders of the service provider's system or network who are repeat infringers; and `(B) accommodates and does not interfere with standard technical measures. `(2) DEFINITION- As used in this subsection, the term `standard technical measures' means technical measures that are used by copyright owners to identify or protect copyrighted works and-- `(A) have been developed pursuant to a broad consensus of copyright owners and service providers in an open, fair, voluntary, multi-industry standards process; `(B) are available to any person on reasonable and nondiscriminatory terms; and `(C) do not impose substantial costs on service providers or substantial burdens on their systems or networks. ---phelix at vallnet.com wrote: > > On 7 Nov 1998 13:50:20 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: > > > > >Would such a commercial entity require registry to be protected? > > A more interesting question is whether anonymous remailers will need to > register. I suspect that there will be a challenge to this law that will > lead judges to define what an ISP is. That definition will problably be > something like: > > Any service that allows users to connect to, send, or receive > information to/from other sites or any site acting as a conduit for users > to communicate with others. > > Already, companies like Newscene and Newsguy (usenet only services) believe > that they will need to register, though they aren't technically ISPs, as > most people would think of them. > > Is an anymous remailer needs to register, what will the implications be? > > -- Phelix > > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From bix at geekforce.org Sat Nov 7 18:48:30 1998 From: bix at geekforce.org (b!X) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 10:48:30 +0800 Subject: A question about the new ISP ruling and email... In-Reply-To: <3646ba82.49389892@news> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Nov 1998 phelix at vallnet.com wrote: > Is an anymous remailer needs to register, what will the implications be? Ok, if there's been a URL posted explaining what the law says about registration, I missed it. Being an owner of a cybercafe, I imagine I should see what the law has to say. - b!X (Guerrilla Techno-fetishist @ GEEK Force) From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz Sat Nov 7 19:01:13 1998 From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 11:01:13 +0800 Subject: Blind signal demodulation Message-ID: <91049302221713@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz> The October 1993 Proceedings of the IEEE contain a number of rather interesting articles on blind signal identification and demodulation, which may be described roughly as "demodulation without the cooperation of the transmitter (or intended receiver where this might be necessary)". The first article in particular goes into some detail on how to acquire QAM signals used in modems, including a neat diagram on p.1919 of a 64-QAM constellation through the various stages of acquisition by a blind demodulator. The blind demodulation comletely bypasses the need for an initial training stage, acquiring the necessary signal-processing details on the fly. The article finishes with overviews of typical hardware used for blind demodulation of QAM signals, including a multi-protocol DSP card with with 8 320C50's capable of blind demodulation of anything from 24 2400bps signals up through 8 V.34 ones, as well as an ASIC for blind demodulation of digital cable TV signals. They also comment that blind decoders for typical voiceband signals can be implemented on Pentium MMX/UltraSparc-grade hardware. This is interesting reading, and should lay to rest the UL that high-speed modems have some sort of magic immunity to interception which the lower-speed ones don't. Oh yes, the introduction makes the observation that this sort of stuff is "rarely mentioned in the open literature". It's not hard to see why. Peter. From tcmay at got.net Sat Nov 7 19:41:31 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 11:41:31 +0800 Subject: Electric power generators ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 3:52 PM -0800 11/7/98, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: >1) Aside from probably lower power, are those cheaper generators somehow >worse? > >2) How reliable are those cheaper generators? > >3) What is their expected lifetime, in hours of operation? > >4) How hard is it to service them? The answer to all of the above is that the nickname for Briggs and Stratton engines, the ones commonly found in the $500 generators sold by local hardware and home supply stores, is "Breaks and Scrap 'Em." Coleman and Generac generators are notorious for short running life. See misc.survivalism for many comments, including comments by equipment rental folks, who say the Coleman, Generac, and other B & S or Tecumseh-based generators have low lifetimes. If one's need is for very short-term, occasional use, the B & S-based generators are OK. Cheap, that's for sure. Better engines are Honda and Kohler (and a few of the Coleman generators are now starting to feature Honda overhead valve (OHV) engines. Again, look to misc.survivalism, not the Cypherpunks list! >5) How do you connect them to the electric system, to properly use >them as backup? (this may be a stupid question, but I am not very >familiar with American system of electric wiring). See above. Also, use the Web. >6) How much gasoline do they consume if you draw 2KW power from them? > My Honda 2.5 KW generator is rated at consuming one third of a gallon per hour. A 3-gallon tank running for 9 hours. I haven't done exhaustive tests, but this is, so far, about what I am seeing. All of this is contained in manfacturers specs, available on the Web and commented upon in groups like misc.survivalism. Cypherpunks is not a good place to ask. --Tim May Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Sat Nov 7 20:33:34 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 12:33:34 +0800 Subject: A question about the new ISP ruling and email... (fwd) Message-ID: <199811080408.WAA04069@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 18:25:34 -0800 (PST) > From: David Watts > Subject: Re: A question about the new ISP ruling and email... > `(1) SERVICE PROVIDER- (A) As used in subsection (a), the term > `service provider' means an entity offering the transmission, > routing, or providing of connections for digital online > communications, between or among points specified by a user, of > material of the user's choosing, without modification to the content > of the material as sent or received. > > `(B) As used in this section, other than subsection (a), the term > `service provider' means a provider of online services or network > access, or the operator of facilities therefor, and includes an entity > described in subparagraph (A). That pretty much covers anyone other than a end-user/subscriber. This means anonymous remailers, mailing list hosting services, email services, etc. > Subsection (a) deals with limiting ISP liability for transmitting > infringing material. Other subsections deal with caching, hosting, > linking, taking down infringing material, liability for those who > knowingly misrepresent that material is infringing, and rights of > copyright owners to subpoena ISPs for identification information of > alleged infringers. The requirement to register with the Copyright > Office and designate a contact person applies only as to liability for > hosted material. Does 'hosted material' mean material that is put up by the ISP itself or does it also include material made available by subscribers? > However, in order to be eligible for any of the > liability limitations, ISPs must meet the following conditions: Ah, so there's more than simple registration... > `(i) CONDITIONS FOR ELIGIBILITY- > > `(1) ACCOMMODATION OF TECHNOLOGY- The limitations on > liability established by this section shall apply to a service > provider only if the service provider-- > > `(A) has adopted and reasonably implemented, and informs > subscribers and account holders of the service provider's system or > network of, a policy that provides for the termination in appropriate > circumstances of > subscribers and account holders of the service provider's system or > network who are repeat infringers; and Wait a second, I'm no cop. If somebody places copyrighted material on SSZ for example I can see bringing suite against that party, but forcing me to punish them by removing their account is over the line. Do I get restitution for lost services from the copyright holder since I'm acting as their agent? > `(B) accommodates and does not interfere with standard > technical measures. > > `(2) DEFINITION- As used in this subsection, the term > `standard technical measures' means technical measures that are used > by copyright owners to identify or protect copyrighted works and-- > > `(A) have been developed pursuant to a broad consensus of > copyright owners and service providers in an open, fair, voluntary, > multi-industry standards process; So this is voluntary? > `(B) are available to any person on reasonable and > nondiscriminatory terms; and Meaning they themselves aren't copyrighted? > `(C) do not impose substantial costs on service providers or > substantial burdens on their systems or > networks. Imposition of *any* cost is a substantial burden. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From schear at lvcm.com Sat Nov 7 20:57:00 1998 From: schear at lvcm.com (Steve Schear) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 12:57:00 +0800 Subject: IP: Discover Alien Life With Your PC And SETI In-Reply-To: <199811072128.NAA19768@netcom13.netcom.com> Message-ID: Perhaps I'm missing something, but it seems to me that if I were an alien civilization and wanted to send out a beacon, in as wide an angle as possible, across the vast reaches of space and overcome as much of the path losses as possible using the least energy I certainly wouldn't use a narrow band signal. Quite the contrary, I'd want to spread a low bandwidth information signal across the widest practical spectrum. Its much easier to increase process gain (the ratio of the baseband information signal to the final carrier bandwidth) than transmit power. While a narrow band signal from Arecibo's powerful transmitter/antenna combination can be detected at a distance of about 300 light years. It subtends a very small angle greatly reducing the likelyhood of contact. Switching to a spread spectrum approach could allow broadening the antenna pattern, and thereby its chances of detection, significantly without reducing its effective range. Notice how 63 dB (or over 2,000,000 fold effective increase in transmit power) of process gain enables handheld GPS receivers to pull in signals from satellites, sent using only a few watts of transmit power, without much of an antenna. If all this seems to make sense, then why are the SETI people apparently seaching the skies with lots of narrow band receivers? They don't seem to be employing any broadband correlator techniques, so spread signals will probably be missed. --Steve From mix at anon.lcs.mit.edu Sat Nov 7 20:57:02 1998 From: mix at anon.lcs.mit.edu (lcs Mixmaster Remailer) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 12:57:02 +0800 Subject: Grounding (fwd) Message-ID: <19981108044003.6326.qmail@nym.alias.net> It seems so pointless to correct Choate. The guy is almost totally impervious to enlightenment. But a couple of whoppers have to be pointed out... > Secondly, you're considering an electron carrying a photon as a > single wavicle, it ain't. It's a superposition of several wavicles (3 quarks > and a lepton to be exact under the standard model). Electrons don't "carry" photons. An atom can absorb a photon, raising an electron to a higher energy level, but the photon is then gone. And a single moving electron certainly doesn't carry a photon. Photons move at the speed of light, always. Quarks are constituents only of baryons. There are no quarks in electrons or photons. Choate's bizarre description of a "spark gap" inside a conductive globe culminates with this: > Unlike charges attract. Therefore the gas of electrons are attracted to the > inside surface. Now since the globe is neutral it must follow by > conservation of charge that there is a negative charge equal to the charge > held in the gas on the *OUTSIDE* of the ball. The net charge within the sphere will not change. If the box in the middle with the "spark gap" is spraying out electrons, this can only mean that the box is itself becoming positively charged. The sphere sees a constant charge within itself; at best, the charge can be redistributed. There are no net changes of charge within the sphere and so there will be no changes in any charge appearing on the outside of the sphere. Choate's whole model of how a spark gap transmitter works, and why it emits electromagnetic radiation, is so bizarre that it is hard to believe. Someone else can bang their head against the brick wall of his ignorance on that topic. Choate is, by far, the worst poster on the cypherpunks list today. He posts off-topic material, he is argumentative, and 90% of the time, he is simply wrong. From mah248 at nyu.edu Sat Nov 7 21:27:06 1998 From: mah248 at nyu.edu (Michael Hohensee) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 13:27:06 +0800 Subject: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199811071710.LAA02112@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <364529A2.F4C8E9C9@nyu.edu> Jim Choate wrote: > > Forwarded message: > > > Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 01:33:18 -0500 > > From: Michael Hohensee > > Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd) > > > No government can protect individual rights. > > That isn't a reasonable statement. There is nothing in the definition or > application of 'government' or 'individual rights' that preclude this. The > issue becomes in a practical sense how the practitioners of a government > system respect individual rights. If they are willing to do away with them > to protect them (as we seem to be moving toward in this country) then of > course there are no individual rights. You missed my point. What I'm trying to point out is that no government (or any other body, for that matter) can prevent someone from doing something. All the state can do (and does, if you look closely) is offer to punish anyone who disobeys it. It doesn't matter whether that state is protecting individual rights or not --it can only punish, not prevent. > Of course, this implies there are no collective rights either. Correct. There are none. There are no collectives, only groups comprised of individuals. Therefore it would be meaningless to speak of "collective" rights. > > The only way one could do > > so would be if it: (a) could predict the future, and act to prevent > > certain futures from happening; or (b) it controls every aspect and > > motion of each individual's life, thereby ensuring that nobody steps out > > of line. > > What has that to do with protecting individual rights? Clarify please. I'm explaining why it is impossible for the state to protect individual rights. I offer two mechanisms by which the state *could* _protect_ individual rights, and then point out why they are impossible. It is something of a strawman argument, but if you disagree, I'm willing to tear down any mechanism you might propose. :) > > All any state can do is threaten to "retaliate" against (why not just > > say "attack") people who disobey its edicts. In order for this threat > > to be credible, the state must wield sufficient power to kill any > > individual (or group of individuals) who would stand against it. If it > > does not have this power, it cannot govern. > > This is a quaint and completely artificial distinction. Is it really? Then could you please explain to me exactly why I would have to pay taxes (or otherwise make submission) to a state which did *not* have the power to kill me? If it lacks this power --and I mean this in a physical sense, not a legal one-- then what is to stop me or anyone else from telling it to fuck off? Such a state cannot govern those who do not wish to be governed, and so would not be a government. > > The problem is, if it does > > have this power, then there is nothing to stop those individuals in > > control of the state from violating the individual rights of its > > citizens. As often seems the case today, for example. > > We also see quite a few situations where the opposite occurs as well. Occasionally, yes. The state does not yet have absolute power, or does not yet choose to wield it fully in all situations. But we've already got an impressive list in the USA alone. We've had Ruby Ridge, we've had Waco, the countless raids on the homes of innocent people in the name of the drug war (and the countless raids on the homes of innocent drug-addicts, for that matter). > > The system you suggest, which I assume consists of a state with a > > "minimal" amount of power, run by enlightened people, is in a state of > > Anyone who assumes noble oblige is an idiot. There are no enlightened > people, intelligence and wealth no more prepare an individual for a > position in government than they prepare them for anything else. > Rich/intelligent people don't make less mistakes than those who aren't. Correct, which is the main reason that we cannot trust a state in any shape or form, regardless of how good the people running it may seem. > > extremely unstable equilibrium (if it is indeed in equilibrium). If it > > If you're talking of Hayek's equilibrium, it's nothing more than a > bastardization of a thermodynamics term to represent the status quo. > Equilabrium in the economic sense simply means that people do today what > they did yesterday. In general they do about as often as they don't. Actually, I wasn't thinking of Hayek at all. ;) I was just pointing out that a "benign" state, even if it were possible to create one (which, as you pointed out in your last paragraph, is impossible), would not stay benign very long. Economics is not discussed in this portion of the argument. > > wields just enough power to enforce its will, that power can be used by > > evil men to increase its power. > > Evil? Where did religion come into this at? Forgive me, I was trying to shorten the sentence a bit, and assumed that "evil men" would be understood to refer to those men (and women) who wish to rule other people, for whatever reason. Your personal definition of evil may vary. Can we agree that it is wrong to rule others? This is the fundamental distinction which sets us apart from the statists. > > Just look at what happened after the Constitutional coup took place in > > the fledgling USA. Remember the Whiskey Rebellion? When we lost the > > Articles of Confederation, we were taking the first steps down the road > > to the tyranny of today. The anti-federalists predicted this, although > > they sorely underestimated how far it would go --assuming that it would > > be stopped by another revolution. > > There have been several since then. The Civil War and the civil rights > movement in the 60's are two good examples (on the opposite end of the > 'use-of-violence' scales). The war of northern aggression is more of a reverse revolution, from this standpoint. The south peacefully left the union, and the north reconquered it. It's roughly analogous to what would have happened had the british won the american revolution. As for the civil rights movement; it just goes to show that not *everything* that happened after 1776 was a bad thing. > > The minimalist state has been tried. > > No, that was a non-federalist state where the individual states acted as > individuals in a collective. Because of the collective nature of the state > governments it didn't work. A minimalist state would be anarchy. Not by the definition of a state given above. The minimalist state must wield sufficient power to rule those who would disobey its edicts, otherwise it's not a state --just a bunch of losers who dress pompously and issue meaningless proclaimations. Anarchy is the *absence* of the state. > > The only truly free system is one in which there is no body of people > > calling itself a government which can enforce its will over the > > individual. The only way people can seem to be free living under such a > > body is entirely dependent upon the good will of their masters, and this > > is a shaky assumption to make. > > No it isn't the only way. The only way is to clearly define the duties of > each level of government and build a system of checks and balances that > prohibit them from moving outside their domains. A good first attempt at > this was the Constitution and the Bill of Rights (in particular 9 & 10). > The problem is that there are individuals who don't want to be limited in > their authority. It's a person problem not a government problem. You are proposing a means of setting up a benign government. For it to be a government, it must wield sufficient power to rule. For it to be benign, it must be run by "good" men (i.e. those who will not use the state to increase their personal power). But as you pointed out, it is foolish to trust that the state will be run by such individuals, regardless of who they are. Thus it would seem that it is impossible to create a benign state. Thus we should avoid having one. > > How about: Any action that involves the initiation of force against the > > property of another person (the person belongs to himself, of course) is > > immoral. > > Morality? Why do you keep bringing religion and individual beliefs into it? I used the word because the person I responded to used it. Exactly what is considered "immoral" does of course vary from person to person. Perhaps a better word would be "wrong", "antisocial", "socially unacceptable", or perhaps "not to be tolerated". > A person is, they don't belong to anyone. No, a person belongs to him or herself. *Someone* is directing my actions, and guess what: it's me. I choose what I will and will not do. I choose what I say. I choose what I think. I belong to me. > It should be: > > Any act that harms a person or their property without their prior permission > is a crime. Correct. It is wrong to initiate force against another person or their property. It is of course no problem if the person owning the property gives you permission to harm it. Then it's not initiation of force. > There are no exceptions other than immediate personal self > defence, which terminates upon the application of minimal force to guarantee > the threat will not reoccur (in many cases this means kill the attacker). > This should apply to all individuals participating in a governmental role as > well. I agree. This more detailed explaination of how much force should be applied in response to an attack. It should be small enough to ensure that you don't accidentially end up looking like you're in the wrong afterwards, and large enough to ensure that there *is* an afterwards. ;) > > This neatly tidies up the obvious question of exactly what "individual > > rights" are. There's a partial list of them in the bill of rights, but > > it is not complete, by its own admission. > > By it's own admission they are protected from denial by the 9th and 10th so > they don't need to be listed (unlike the 10th lists the duties of the > government system). The problem is conservatives and liberals alike don't > respect those boundaries. They want more. Correct. No state can be benign if it is run by corrupt individuals. This is another example which supports the idea that the state is a bad idea. > > Furthermore, the above > > definition excludes such dubious rights as the "right to an education", > > the "right to welfare", etc. > > Now you're doing exactly what you are complaining about. Your defining others > rights when you don't want them defining yours. No, I'm describing what are obviously *not* rights. If someone has a "right" to an education, then that means that he has a right to get it whether or not he can pay for it. That is, if he can't pay for it, he has the right to take money which belongs to other people (i.e. steal the property of others). (either that or he has the right to a "free" education, which translates to him having a right to make someone teach him without compensation, which is also theft). The same argument applies to welfare. If you do not agree, then what you said about it being wrong to harm another person or that person's property without their consent is sheer hypocrisy. > People may very well have a right to welfare and an education (I believe > people have a civil right to medical and legal advice gratis - stems from > the pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness). The issue isn't that. The > issue is *what are the duties of the government as defined in its charter*. > If those duties are not in there (and they're not) then it shouldn't be > doing it without an amendment from the charter. So, you're saying that you're a statist? :/ > > All of the above involve the initiation (or threat of initiation) of > > force. Hence they are immoral, and the victims and any bystanders would > > be morally justified in using force against the initiators. Of course, > > this would not be true in a governed society, where the state must hold > > a monopoly on the use of force, if only to maintain its own position. > > Much less efficient. > > Go read the Constitution, it's true here in our governemnt though many > people don't want it to be so. As a result they find all kinds of childish > and inane reasons to deny the obvious. > > Like it or not the federal governments panapoly of current powers are as > vacous as the king is naked. > > It's like executive orders, unless you happen to work for the executive > branch they aren't worth the paper they're written on. Why? Because at no > point is the office of President given this authority over anyone other than > executive branch employees. He has no more authority to dictate general > behaviour via that mechanism than you or I do - zero. Per the 10th there is > not one sentence in the Constitution that delegates that authority to the > office. In a strictly legal sense, you are correct. In reality, however, things are slightly different, since there is a large supply of men with guns who are apparently willing to execute these legally unjustified orders --and me, if I get in their way. When I talk about power, I'm not talking about namby-pamby _legal_ power. I'm talking about raw *physical* power. From a practical point of view, what's written on a piece of paper is irrelevant if I'm confronted with armed men who are willing to ignore it. > > We've all got our pet peeves. Would you like to live under mine? Would > > I like to live under yours? Can I trust you to be tolerant? Can I > > trust your successors, 20 years from now? Can my descendants trust > > subsequent successors, 200 years later? Experience tends to show the > > contrary. > > There is more at stake than toleration or trust. You paint with too narrow a > brush. If you're saying we should have anarchy then you're as kooky as the > people who don't literaly interpret the Constitution. Why? Is it insane not to trust in the state? *You yourself* have pointed out why we cannot trust those organizations called states. If I'm insane, you appear to be schizophrenic. ;) > > The anarcho-capitalist free market is not one where "everything goes," > > and there is indeed a strong concept of individual rights. What is > > moral and not moral is defined by society on an individual basis. The > > first and only rule is: > > First, it is one of everything-goes because there is no mechanism that will > stop anybody from doing anything. There are NO concepts of *rights* in such > a system, let alone individual rights. If anything the only rights are who > has the capitalist backing to stave off the anarchic forces. That's not > justice, equality, or respect for rights. You are forgetting *social* mechanisms. You are assuming that everyone won't care if one of their friends is hurt. You are assuming that people will never take action against those who they percieve to be threatening or harming them or their friends. These assumptions are *invalid*. > > No one has the right to initiate force against another or another's > > property. > > Attack me with your body and property and watch it happen junior. You misunderstand what is meant by the "initiation of force". If I were to attack you, it would be I who would be initiating force, not you. The force you use in response to my initiation of force would not have initiated the conflict, thus you are not initiating force. > > This is the fundamental and only "social contract" we make. Anyone who > > disagrees with this is obviously antisocial, and nobody's going to want > > to live with him (or allow him to continue living, if he attacks > > someone). > > Oh bullshit. There is much more involved like not stealing which isn't the > use of force and allowed by your anarcho-capatilism as well as your > definition of valid use of force above. > > It's gibberish. Nope. Theft is an initation of force against my property. If I happen to be there, it would usually involve the initiation of force against me, as I would probably desire to keep my property. > > >From this, morality follows. If X does Y to Z, and if Y is perceived as > > immoral, then X is not going to be very popular with Z or anyone else, > > unless he can make amends. No one will want to trade with him, be near > > him, etc. This is a very strong motive to avoid doing immoral things. > > Will you get religion the hell out of here please. Again, I apologize for using the word "morality", since it obviously triggers your religion button. > Y is obviously popular > with X or else they wouldn't have used it. It further follows that there are > more than one X-type out there. So your premise falls down on its face in > the dirt. Afraid not. Just because there's more than one X out there doesn't mean that Y is still a good thing to do. If there is a sufficient number of Z's who are willing to ostracize any X who does Y, then X is given a strong motivation to not do Y, lest X end up starving and alone. If, however, very few people consider Y immoral, then X will have no problems. Any Z's who treat X badly for Y will tend to be shunned by X and his friends, putting pressure on the Z's to mind their own business. This an example of a negative feedback loop --in stark contrast to the positive feedback associated with the level of corruption in a state. > > If Y is really nasty, such as the initiation of force, then X is going > > to be in *deep* trouble. > > With who? In an anarcho-capitalist society as you paint it the optimal strategy > is to allow others to reduce your competition opening up the market for you. No, I never painted it that way. This is what *you* associate with anarcho-capitalism. > Let's take an example. Imagine we live on a street and we notice a person > going from house to house down the other side of the street. What is our > optimal strategy? It isn't to call the cops (there aren't any) and it isn't > to immediately kill the intruder (it isn't our property after all) since > there is an opportunity to make a considerable gain here improving our > status in the society as a whole. The optimal strategy is to wait and let > this bozo kill our neighbors up to our house and *then* kill the intruder. > At that point we have just inhereted an entire street of houses and its > included properties. You put up a fence across each end of the street and > wallah, your own little fifedom. If you're really lucky something similar > will happen on the next street over and they won't be as lucky at killing > the intruder. Then after they are all dead and the intruder has consolidated > their gains (probably by fencing their street in) you can begin to scheme > ways of taking that property since its obvious yours is next. This is not the optimal strategy. The optimal strategy is to warn your neighbors, or call the neighborhood security service. You do this because you want them to do the same for you, should you come under attack. This is why most primates (specifically humans) live in groups --it's easier to see the predators coming with everyone watching, and it's easier to fend them off if everybody picks up a stick. Fortunately, most people are already programmed to behave in a social fashion (the ones who weren't got eaten 40,000 years ago). The scenario you paint above relies on the assumption of a sudden change in human nature, if the all protecting state were to evaporate. This is an incorrect assumption. Many have been the times that people have thought they could change human nature, and equally many are the failures. > > Z may well shoot him out of self defense, and > > even if he survives his action, he'll have to pay a *lot* of restitution > > before people will trust him again, if ever. Law enforcement by > > ostracism --read L. Neil Smith's "The Probability Broach", for a more > > detailed description. > > Wait a second, there is no law to enforce here outside of make money, obtain > property, keep somebody else from taking it. You are overlooking common law. > > In summary, a free market is far from being an immoral market. In fact, > > it is the most moral market there is, since there is no state which > > holds the "right" to initiate force. > > In summary a free-market is a anarchy of kill or be killed, take or get > taken. He with the most goodies wins until somebody with a better strategy > comes along. There is nothing to moderate the use of force, especialy when > its the optimal strategy to increase ones holdings. > Except, as I've pointed out, it is *not* the optimal strategy. Perhaps you would enjoy the works of Richard Dawkins. He goes into great detail describing exactly how nonviolent strategies are superior to violent ones. I'll just give one example here. When two bears approach the same berry bush, they do not immediately start fighting over it. Instead, they each stick to one side of the bush, and do not disturb one another. Why, if your strategy is the optimal one, would this be the case? After all, bears are already pretty good at attacking things. It would be pretty easy for a exceptional bear to break this rule, and become dominant over the other bears, if what you say is true. But it is obvious that bears *don't* do this. That any bears or ancestors of bears that ever did do this were somehow out-competed by their peaceful counterparts. Thus it would appear, from available evidence, that your approach *is not* superior to the peaceful approach. Read Dawkins' "The Selfish Gene" for a more in-depth argument. Michael Hohensee From declan at well.com Sat Nov 7 22:01:25 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 14:01:25 +0800 Subject: IP: Crunch Time for Y2K Suppliers In-Reply-To: <199811072128.NAA19724@netcom13.netcom.com> Message-ID: <199811080538.VAA24008@smtp.well.com> Seems to me that it would have been just as easy for "believer" to send the URL to the story as the whole thing. Same with ol'VZ. Not only is it in poor taste, but it means less people will read the article on wired.com, which is what pays the rent. -Declan At 01:28 PM 11-7-98 -0800, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote: > >From: believer at telepath.com >Subject: IP: Crunch Time for Y2K Suppliers >Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 11:22:46 -0600 >To: believer at telepath.com > >Source: Wired >http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/16035.html?3 > >Crunch Time for Y2K Suppliers > by Declan McCullagh > > 4:00 a.m.5.Nov.98.PST > The phones are already ringing when Steve From nobody at replay.com Sat Nov 7 23:32:32 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 15:32:32 +0800 Subject: A question about the new ISP ruling and email... In-Reply-To: <199811071757.LAA02280@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199811080706.IAA28043@replay.com> >A more interesting question is whether anonymous remailers will need to >register. I suspect that there will be a challenge to this law that will I think they will. The brief period of loose controls over communication media is coming to an end. State correctly identified the problem and now it is effectively being dealt with. As printed mass media enjoyed short period of "freedom" at the beginning of the century, so did internet in last five-six years or so. All identifiable concentration nodes (news, ftp & http servers, remailers, dial-in access points etc.) will eventually be censored. It is interesting to note that today's network topology is more vulnerable to censorship than UUCP was. The only (partial) solution is to raise the cost of censoring by requiring one-to-one effort. In other words, serverless world in which end users directly exchange (preferably encrypted) packets over common carriers. Hint: *Bsd + IPSec + uucp over IP and then merge in Crowds technology where real-time relaying is needed. Actually ... cypherpunks is a good choice for the first port. The Barnman From tcmay at got.net Sun Nov 8 00:11:41 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 16:11:41 +0800 Subject: Advertising Creepiness In-Reply-To: <199811072128.NAA19724@netcom13.netcom.com> Message-ID: At 9:35 PM -0800 11/7/98, Declan McCullagh wrote: >Seems to me that it would have been just as easy for "believer" to send the >URL to the story as the whole thing. Same with ol'VZ. > >Not only is it in poor taste, but it means less people will read the >article on wired.com, which is what pays the rent. > Myself, I try to mostly just snip out a few paragraphs of a story and comment on them, fair use and all. However, Declan's point about "what pays the rent" brings up an obvious point: does _anybody_ look at those damned banner ads? This is the new "blind spot"...that foveal region about a third of the way down a Web page screen that has dancing icons, "click on me" junk, and corporate logos. My guess is that nearly all of us skip this junk completely, and I think marketing studies will someday confirm this. (There have been tantalizing reports in places like the "Wall Street Journal" that basically almost nobody sees these ads, but the full message hasn't sunk in.) And the advertising creeps are getting even creepier. Intel was running a banner ad that looked like a typical Mac or Windows error/alert box, something like "Click Here to Resume Operation." Creepy. And annoying. And even my current favorite search engine, Metacrawler, now has banner ads scattered throughout the search results. Tonight's ad (they change frequently, of course) even looked like a *search script*! A field for entering text and then an OK button...I didn't try it, but it was obviously an attempt to mislead people--embedding a search script inside a search result. (It was a "fake search script" to "Find people just like you," from "PlanetAll.com") And the common pages--Wired, Yahoo, Excite, Dejanews, .....--devote the left third to junky promotions, the top fourth to their damned name ("Metacrawler" in 40-point type), and then scatter banned ads across a third of what's remaining. It's not uncommon for only 2-3 search results to come back on a screen of 1024 x 768. Declan's own site, Wired.com, runs junk across the top, junk on the left side, junk on the right side, and doesn't even use the screen real estate. His story on Y2K, for example, is crammed into about a column inch or two in the center. This is what we've come to. Beautiful high resolution screens with junk filling them. (Yes, I tried the utilities which purport to flush banner ads, but they didn't work well (long delays, cruftiness).) Friends of mine routinely turn off all graphics, a point I'm about to reach. So, Declan may think the banner ads at Wired.com pay the rent, and the bean counters may think this is so, but I doubt any of us are looking at the ads. Except the dummies. --Tim May Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From vznuri at netcom.com Sun Nov 8 00:39:08 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 16:39:08 +0800 Subject: Advertising Creepiness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199811080818.AAA05625@netcom13.netcom.com> I like the wired.com site and hit it almost daily. I consider it one of the highest quality sites on the net, and their system of linking to other daily articles on other sites I really like. (wish they would summarize their articles better though before you click through-- something that they have resisted for a long time but for what reason I have no idea) I do look at banner ads but rarely click on them. regrding copyright issues on the web, there is an interesting article in an old CUD called "the cyberspatial copyright" that captures my own thinking on the subject, for anyone with the lack of laziness to seek it out it would have been nice if Declan identified his affiliation with Wired in his complaint.. a nice post TCM, you have written on the idea of the worthlessness of banner ads long ago. but you've been way wrong too (er, ah, more diplmatically, "off") based on your old posts. I recall a post, I think, in which you predicted that ads would eventually be thrown away on the net after proven worthless. your current msg contains a similar theme. clearly the absolute opposite has happened. ads are successfully funding the net and entire new cool and innovative startups such as "doubleclick" etc. that are in many ways "virtual businesses" that run on information flow. 3rd wave, alvin toffler, is definitely HERE. TCM, you appear never to have worked in advertising. advertisers do not put out ads so that every person who reads it buys the product or clicks on the ad. they are satisfied with 1/100 "click thrus", and that's exactly what they get. online advertising is very,very cost effective if done properly. it can really be "microtargeted" in a way existing advertising isn't. so TCM, you are confusing two issues. advertising in general is annoying, ubiquitous, in-your-face in our culture. some estimates are that 1000+ ads are seen daily by each individual when you look at tv, magazine, outdoor, etc. online advertising shares all these traits. however, online advertising does not have to be a miracle cure. it only has to be as good (but idealy better) than *existing* advertising systems in use. and they are very inefficient and wasteful at times if you are aware of that industry. online advertising is downright streamlined compared to other forms that have preceded it. consider the breakthrough of geocities in which entire free *personal* (not corporate!!) web sites are supported by advertising solely!! geocities is a small cyberspace miracle unappreciated by many. they are growing insanely and their quality is getting to be really top notch. personally I think online advertsiing is really cool because it is funding the civilization of cyberspace. it's annoying and tacky and in-your-face, but it pays the bills, and is doing more so every day. it will get less obnoxious over time in some ways as you begin to run into only the ads that interest you based on "microtargeting" so to speak. you buy stuff, right TCM? well online ads may get to the point where you stop complaining and find them a very valuable resource to make your buying decisions--even objectively (for example an ad could link to an objective 3rd part like "consumer reports"). I think this day is not too far off. in many ways it is already here. From renegade at texoma.net Sun Nov 8 17:08:24 1998 From: renegade at texoma.net (Renegade) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 17:08:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: Spy News In-Reply-To: <199811081454.JAA30292@dewdrop2.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981108190424.007c4b90@texoma.net> None of them were even known, much less found, until Ronald Pelton starting pointing them out to the russkies on a world map. At 09:45 AM 11/08/1998 -0500, John Young wrote: >NYT reports today on a new book, "Blind Man's Bluff," >which reports on the US's success at placing surveillance >devices on Soviet subsea communications cables around >the world. With much technical detail about how it was >done, beginning with the simple but overlooked idea of >locating shoreline warning signs about undersea cables >then tracking from there. > >The devices, some up to 20 feet long for housing elaborate >processing equipment, captured electronic emanations, thereby >eluding detection measures aimed at physical taps. One was >found by the Soviets but most were not and much information >on the program is still classified. > >AT&T and Bell labs built many of them. The US Navy will not >comment on the book, citing national security restrictions. -Renegade From bill.stewart at pobox.com Sun Nov 8 01:48:03 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 17:48:03 +0800 Subject: IP: [FP] L.A. DMV Tries to Stem the Tide of Fake Licenses In-Reply-To: <199811042123.NAA18961@netcom13.netcom.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981107232750.008f4e70@idiom.com> At 01:23 PM 11/4/98 -0800, Vladimir Z. Nuri forwarded "ScanThisNews" 's forwarding to ignition-point by VIRGINIA ELLIS from last April - presumably the Digital Millenium Copyright Act means that everybody here had better register or they're in Big Trouble :-) Anyway, .... The State has been forcing people to turn over private information, such as SSNs and addresses, to an organization known to be riddled with graft, information selling, and illegal issuing of licenses. "We have, in effect, created a cottage industry," said Steve Solem, a DMV deputy director. One of the big encouragements to this cottage industry has been the anti-immigrant Pete Wilson administration's policy that speaking Spanish causes bad driving so undocumented immigrants can't be allowed to drive. The article also points to other groups of people denied permission to travel for non-safety-related reasons. >SACRAMENTO - The California driver's license's preeminence as a form of >identification has spawned a thriving black market for fraudulent licenses >and a major corruption scandal in the state's motor vehicle department, >records and interviews show. > >In recent years, as the lowly driver's license has been redesigned to make >it more tamper-resistant, the card has increasingly become the dominant >piece of identification for cashing checks, obtaining credit and securing >government services. .... >New laws have made a larger and larger pool of people susceptible to losing >their license for activities unrelated to driving. The license can be >suspended for spraying graffiti, failure to pay child support, truancy and >certain kinds of prostitution. And immigrants who lack proper proof of >residency cannot be issued one. > >"If you're a drunk driver, you want a fake ID," said Alison Koch, a senior >special investigator for the DMV in Sacramento. "If you're in a gang, you >want a fake ID. If you're a deadbeat dad, you want a fake ID. If you're an >illegal alien, you want a fake ID. If you want to commit check or credit >card fraud, you want a fake ID. > >"There is hardly a crime out there that doesn't demand some kind of >fraudulent identification." ... >Reed acknowledged the bad publicity was a wake-up call but disputed Peace's >contention the DMV has a culture of corruption, saying the vast majority of >the DMV's 8,600 workers are law-abiding. ... >Birth certificates, which the DMV requires, are easily counterfeited, and >phony ones are hard to spot, officials said. The appearance of birth >certificates varies from state to state and sometimes, as in California, >from county to county. Adding to the problem is California's open birth >certificate procedure, which allows virtually anyone to get a certified copy >of anyone else's birth record. .... >Scattaglia said much of the counterfeiting may have its roots south of the >border, but no one knows for sure because investigators have only been able >to arrest the sellers, not the suppliers. ..... >Banking officials are starting to rethink their heavy reliance on the >driver's license. "That's certainly a trend that's underway because they are >increasingly fake," said Gregory Wilhelm, lobbyist for the California >Bankers Assn. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz Sun Nov 8 03:16:42 1998 From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 19:16:42 +0800 Subject: verisign digital id's for outlook Message-ID: <91052249324053@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz> >A quick question for all you security-savvy people. Our IT instructor has >asked the class to sign up for verisigns' 60-day trial of a class 1 digital >id. > >I also understand that a well (poorly?) written activeX applet can grab my >key basically without my knowledge (to speak nothing of the other myriad >holes in win98/95) > >My question is, where the hell is the private key kept on the users box? >How is it protected against attack? It's protected by Microsoft asserting that it's protected. There's also some sort of attempt at encryption (easily broken, see http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/breakms.txt), but in any case there are enough security holes there that anything which manages to run on your system (ActiveX, as you've mentioned) can grab your keys without a lot of trouble. Peter. From die at die.com Sun Nov 8 20:20:40 1998 From: die at die.com (Dave Emery) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 20:20:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: Spy News In-Reply-To: <199811081454.JAA30292@dewdrop2.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <19981108232025.G15373@die.com> On Sun, Nov 08, 1998 at 02:51:07PM -0800, Steve Schear wrote: > > With the advent of fiber optics capable of repeater-less operation over > transoceanic distances, one would think this sort of underwater surveilence > would be come much more difficult. Actually they use optical amplifiers rather than repeaters and are thus repeaterless in that sense rather than depending on the loss of a single passive fiber being small enough to work all the way across the pond. But one supposes the technology of tapping the cables must have been developed, though indeed a lot harder because one has to actually dig into the cable (and deal with the high voltage for powering the amplifiers and so forth) and tap the individual fibers with quantum coupling type taps. And one supposes the taps are more detectable. The whole issue may be moot by virtue of the extent to which the carriers are in bed with UKUSA anyway, however, as there aren't very many fiber cables run by unfreindly parties unwilling to part with the bitstream... > > --Steve > > -- Dave Emery N1PRE, die at die.com DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2 5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18 From usura at replay.com Sun Nov 8 05:58:46 1998 From: usura at replay.com (Alex de Joode) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 21:58:46 +0800 Subject: Response to Anonymous re: Zero-Knowledge Freedom Message-ID: <199811081325.OAA13192@replay.com> Anonymous, [..] : >FREEDOM servers in their home country (example: if terrible laws are : >passed like in the Netherlands requiring logging and storage of all : >packet info., etc.). In this manner, a local user in a restrictive I'm not aware of any law that requires "logging and storage of all packet info". (I presume you mean 'Wet Computercriminaliteit II' ?) There is a part that makes ISP liable if they cannot point to a 'user' but the law explicitly states that you have to be in the business of being an ISP, running a remailer is not my business, it is a 'not for profit' hobby, so it will be fun to see how "they" will 'manouvre' to bring that also under the law ... Anyways could you please sent me the relevant parts of this law that lead you think this way ? bEST Regards, -- Alex de Joode | International CryptoRunners | http://www.replay.com 'A little paranoia can lengthen your life' From stevem at tightrope.demon.co.uk Sun Nov 8 06:10:34 1998 From: stevem at tightrope.demon.co.uk (Steve Mynott) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 22:10:34 +0800 Subject: Advertising Creepiness In-Reply-To: <199811072128.NAA19724@netcom13.netcom.com> Message-ID: <19981108134525.A26515@tightrope.demon.co.uk> On Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 11:50:05PM -0800, Tim May wrote: > Myself, I try to mostly just snip out a few paragraphs of a story and > comment on them, fair use and all. I particularly dislike articles that are things forwarded from other lists without comment (IP seems a particular offender here). These are rarely interesting. > This is the new "blind spot"...that foveal region about a third of the way > down a Web page screen that has dancing icons, "click on me" junk, and > corporate logos. My guess is that nearly all of us skip this junk > completely, and I think marketing studies will someday confirm this. (There > have been tantalizing reports in places like the "Wall Street Journal" that > basically almost nobody sees these ads, but the full message hasn't sunk > in.) Click through rates are something like 2%, so most are screening them out. I rarely noticed what the ads actually said. > (Yes, I tried the utilities which purport to flush banner ads, but they > didn't work well (long delays, cruftiness).) I don't know which ones you have tried but junkbuster http://www.junkbuster.org/ (a proxy on port 8000) works _very_ well on my linux system, particularly with the "blank gif" patch. It blanks out 99% of banner gifs, which makes pages like metacrawler and wired look more visually attractive and load faster. Until I lost all the banner ads I hadn't realised how distracting all those animated gifs at the top of the screen were and its now much faster and easier to read the info you want, without them. > Friends of mine routinely turn off all graphics, a point I'm about to reach. I tried this but found it made the net too hard to use. > So, Declan may think the banner ads at Wired.com pay the rent, and the bean > counters may think this is so, but I doubt any of us are looking at the > ads. Except the dummies. It would give a brave browser manufactor (Opera?) quite an advantage if they built the banner ad killer into the browser directly. -- 1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott steve at tightrope.demon.co.uk http://www.pineal.com/ i'm a programmer: i don't buy software, i write it. --tom christiansen From jya at pipeline.com Sun Nov 8 08:07:02 1998 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 00:07:02 +0800 Subject: Spy News Message-ID: <199811081454.JAA30292@dewdrop2.mindspring.com> NYT reports today on a new book, "Blind Man's Bluff," which reports on the US's success at placing surveillance devices on Soviet subsea communications cables around the world. With much technical detail about how it was done, beginning with the simple but overlooked idea of locating shoreline warning signs about undersea cables then tracking from there. The devices, some up to 20 feet long for housing elaborate processing equipment, captured electronic emanations, thereby eluding detection measures aimed at physical taps. One was found by the Soviets but most were not and much information on the program is still classified. AT&T and Bell labs built many of them. The US Navy will not comment on the book, citing national security restrictions. The Times also has an obituary for Tommy Flowers, the gent who guided construction of Colossus machines at Bletchley Park to break top-level German codes during WW II. There's still interesting debate about the Paul Dore story of picking up signals from space, which he first thought were from aliens, but which seems more likely to be from a surveillance satellite, and possibly from a type not publicly known. Not enough data yet to show that the story is not a hoax, or disinformation by US/UK spy agencies, but it has led to informative discussion of what such signals could indicate. Notes on this at: http://jya.com/project415.htm More commentary welcome, here or privately. Some will recall a vigorous discussion here a few years back about listening in on US undersea cables, commencing at the landfall points (dense packs of them here in the NYC area), many handily marked on coastal seafaring maps. Or, for more up-to-date technology, setting a receiver to point in the direction of those on TLA bases (needing an x-ray of the concealing radome). From stuffed at stuffed.net Mon Nov 9 01:21:14 1998 From: stuffed at stuffed.net (STUFFED MON NOV 9) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 01:21:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY! 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Full instructions on unsubscribing are in every issue of Eureka! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sun Nov 8 11:36:53 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 03:36:53 +0800 Subject: IP: Crunch Time for Y2K Suppliers (fwd) Message-ID: <199811081712.LAA05240@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 00:35:04 -0500 > From: Declan McCullagh > Subject: Re: IP: Crunch Time for Y2K Suppliers > Seems to me that it would have been just as easy for "believer" to send the > URL to the story as the whole thing. Same with ol'VZ. > > Not only is it in poor taste, but it means less people will read the > article on wired.com, which is what pays the rent. True, but since when is freedom of speech, association, and press related to wired (or you) making a profit? I feel zero social responsibility to tell people to go there and read it when I can send a snippet of it to them directly and save them the time, effort, and bandwidth. I personaly absolutely *HATE* to recieve a piece of email that contains nothing but a URL, it's worthless - lacks all context. Don't like folks sending partial or whole articles to foster discussion, learn to love it or live with it. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Sun Nov 8 12:08:24 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 04:08:24 +0800 Subject: Forwarded mail... Message-ID: <199811081742.LAA05396@einstein.ssz.com> Ah, what the hell. It's a good day to practice the golden rule. Forwarded message: > Date: 8 Nov 1998 04:40:03 -0000 > From: lcs Mixmaster Remailer > > It seems so pointless to correct Choate. The guy is almost totally > impervious to enlightenment. But a couple of whoppers have to be > pointed out... Speakin of pointless anonymous know-it-all bullshit .... > Electrons don't "carry" photons. Actualy they carry the probability wave for the photon (which technicaly could be anywhere in the universe at any given time because of space contraction caused by relativistic effects), but for this particular discussion which concerns ionized or non-correlated electrons carrying a unit charge and Joules of energy (which is where the photon comes in you anonymous fucking ignoramus) saying the electron is carrying a photon is sufficient. > An atom can absorb a photon, raising > an electron to a higher energy level, but the photon is then gone. Well actualy to be absolutely exact the photon is locked between the protons and the electron. It is *NEVER* gone or destroyed. You can't destroy energy, only transform it's form. The photon is *NEVER* absorbed by anything. Now exactly how is the 'higher energy' level expressed? By a *PHOTON* of shorter wavelength (E=hv) you know-nothing smart-ass anonymous dick-muncher. > a single moving electron certainly doesn't carry a photon. Photons move > at the speed of light, always. Only when they are not correlated to a particle such as a proton or an electron. When an electron or a proton carry a packet of energy (measured in Joules) it most certainly carries a photon. Let's look at the electrical characteristic called voltage (you probably haven't heard of this since the rest of your pseudo-science is as full of bullshit as your mouth) which is measured in Joules/Coulomb. Now a Coulomb of electrons moving past a given point in a unit second is an Amp of current. Want to explain how those electrons manage to carry those Joules of photons if their isn't a correlation? I didn't think you did you anonymous lying sack of horse sperm. Since photons *ARE* light (you fucking anonymous ninny) your last point is irrelevant and redundant. Of course they ALWAYS travel at the speed of light, it's how we define light in the first place. > Quarks are constituents only of baryons. There are no quarks in electrons > or photons. Quarks are constituents of hadrons you dumbass prick sucking gay boy. Protons and Neutrons are hadrons built from 3 quarks and some other bosons (some vector and some not) that glue the nucleus together. Electrons and photons are called Leptons (because they are their own vector boson). Electrons carry electrical unit negative charge and photons carry EM fields. A Baryon is a distinction based on the type of quarks that make up the hadron. If the paticle is made up of no anti-quarks it's a baryon, othwise it's a meson. God, what a load of quantum mechanical horse hockey you spout this fine Sunday morning. I can't hardly wait to see what other anonymous drivel you spew out of your syphilis infested mouth next. > The net charge within the sphere will not change. Then you need to go back to school and learn Gauss's Law all over again. It's ok, you'll probably get it in the first semester unless they recognize what a dumb-ass you are and put you in the remedial section. Then I believe you'll be scheduled to cover those topics your Junior year. > If the box in the > middle with the "spark gap" is spraying out electrons, this can only mean > that the box is itself becoming positively charged. The sphere sees a > constant charge within itself; at best, the charge can be redistributed. Which is the whole point to this exercise. The simple fact that I can put a battery powered radio in a metal sphere as described and *STILL* receive the signal proves the model works within the constraints of the original thesis. Don't believe me? Try it at home with a couple of collanders soldered together. The charge is re-distributed to the surface of the sphere, the total charge of the entire system does stay constant (at least until the insulation breaks down). > There are no net changes of charge within the sphere and so there will > be no changes in any charge appearing on the outside of the sphere. If that were so we wouldn't have a spark in the ball to begin with. > Choate's whole model of how a spark gap transmitter works, and why it > emits electromagnetic radiation, is so bizarre that it is hard to believe. > Someone else can bang their head against the brick wall of his ignorance > on that topic. Who said anything about a spark gap transmitter? We were talking about a battery powered spark gap. Not the same thing at all you anonymous weenie sucker. > Choate is, by far, the worst poster on the cypherpunks list today. He > posts off-topic material, he is argumentative, and 90% of the time, he > is simply wrong. Oh, your just jealous I want let you suck my dick junior. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From declan at well.com Sun Nov 8 12:14:10 1998 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 04:14:10 +0800 Subject: Electric power generators ? Message-ID: <199811081725.JAA08583@smtp.well.com> You're talking about the wired.com article I wrote. I carefully did not say there is a "shortage" of generators, diesel or otherwise -- that's your own misreading of it. I did say that the largest U.S. distributor of diesel generators has half year delays on the most popular model. Same with bulk food suppliers like Walton's. Solar power companies also report vastly increased demand. You can buy cheaper gasoline generators at Home Depot, but there are reasons people want to pay three or four times as much for a diesel model. These differences and the other answers to your questions have been well-documented elsewhere; I'm not inclined to list them for you here, though others might be. -Declan At 05:52 PM 11-7-98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > >Hi there, > >I saw an article posted about "shortages" of electric power generators >and other Y2K "survival" goods, such as grains in airtight drums. My >reading of the article gave me a feel that those products are bullshit >products geared towards naive losers, and can be easily replaced with >much cheaper products that can be bought at discount stores. > >More careful reading of the article showed that only certain high power >diesel generators are scarce. > >A visit to my local discount retailer has shown that there are 10KW >gasoline generators available for as little as $500. 10KW is far more >than I would need in an emergency. (I will probably need about 2KW). > >Questions: > >1) Aside from probably lower power, are those cheaper generators somehow >worse? > >2) How reliable are those cheaper generators? > >3) What is their expected lifetime, in hours of operation? > >4) How hard is it to service them? > >5) How do you connect them to the electric system, to properly use >them as backup? (this may be a stupid question, but I am not very >familiar with American system of electric wiring). > >6) How much gasoline do they consume if you draw 2KW power from them? > >Thank you. > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);} > > \=/, _-===-_-====-_-===-_-==========-_-====-_ > | @___oo ( )_ > /\ /\ / (___,,,}_--= ) > ) /^\) ^\/ _) =__ Anything is good and useful if ) > ) /^\/ _) (_ ) > ) _ / / _) ( it's made of chocolate. ) > /\ )/\/ || | )_) (_ ) >< > |(,,) )__) ( http://www.algebra.com/~ichudov ) > || / \)___)\ (_ _) > | \____( )___) )___ -==-_____-=====-_____-=====-___== > \______(_______;;; __;;; > From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz Sun Nov 8 13:02:06 1998 From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 05:02:06 +0800 Subject: Blind signal demodulation Message-ID: <91055510827766@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz> "Matt Crawford" wrote: >>The October 1993 Proceedings of the IEEE contain a number of rather ... >>... They also comment that blind decoders for typical voiceband >>signals can be implemented on Pentium MMX/UltraSparc-grade hardware. >Did you make specific a more general spec they made, or did you typo the date >of the issue? Oops, that should be October 1998, not 1993 (ie last months issue). Sorry about that. Peter. From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sun Nov 8 13:02:08 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 05:02:08 +0800 Subject: Milton Friedmann get's pied.... Message-ID: <199811081848.MAA05734@einstein.ssz.com> Seems the Mayor of San Fran and Milton have something in commen.... ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- ps I didn't forward anything from this so that nobody'd get upset they missed their meal-train. From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sun Nov 8 13:03:11 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 05:03:11 +0800 Subject: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd) Message-ID: <199811081809.MAA05525@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 00:18:26 -0500 > From: Michael Hohensee > Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd) > You missed my point. What I'm trying to point out is that no government > (or any other body, for that matter) can prevent someone from doing > something. Of that we agree. Which is why I will continue to believe the issues we deal with are not government problems but people problems. > All the state can do (and does, if you look closely) is > offer to punish anyone who disobeys it. It doesn't matter whether that > state is protecting individual rights or not --it can only punish, not > prevent. Well to be even more exact, they offer a guarantee of retribution if they can catch or prove somebody broke a law. Of course we could posit a government that pairs everyone up in groups of two (a perpetual no-lone zone), the ultimate police state. > I'm explaining why it is impossible for the state to protect individual > rights. I suspect we're playing word games here with 'protect'. I am not refering to what my neighbor does to me when he gets pissed off that my stereo is too loud. That obviously the government (local, state, or federal) can do nothing about a priori. Where the governemnt (at all levels) *CAN* in fact protect individual rights is the way they create the laws they enforce on all citizens (eg tax laws or dope-smoking laws). Those most certainly can be crafted to prevent abuse of civil liberties. Our own Constitution is a perfect example. The problem is the *people* who we elect believe they are above it and instead of asking "Do the laws we pass conform to the letter and intent of the Constitution?" instead state "It's a flexible document that is hard to interpet because of wording and changes in society". They want an out to not have to play by the rules. Nothing more and nothing less. > I offer two mechanisms by which the state *could* _protect_ > individual rights, and then point out why they are impossible. It is > something of a strawman argument, but if you disagree, I'm willing to > tear down any mechanism you might propose. :) See above. It isn't the rules that matter, it's the respect the arbiters of the rules have *for* the rules that matter. With that clearly in mind *any* mechanism is doomed to fail from the beginning. > > > All any state can do is threaten to "retaliate" against (why not just > > > say "attack") people who disobey its edicts. In order for this threat > > > to be credible, the state must wield sufficient power to kill any > > > individual (or group of individuals) who would stand against it. If it > > > does not have this power, it cannot govern. > > > > This is a quaint and completely artificial distinction. > > Is it really? Then could you please explain to me exactly why I would > have to pay taxes (or otherwise make submission) to a state which did > *not* have the power to kill me? So you wouldn't have to stand there and watch your house burn to the slab. So you would have help finding the perpetrator who raped your daughter last night. So when you drive down the street it isn't a whole filled muddy tract through a economicaly impoverished wasteland. So when you write a check you know there is something behind it that is trustworthy. So when you have that wrech late some rainy night there is an ambulance and a hospital to take you to. As to your (and others) particular focus on taxes, all it would take to resolve that issue is a single law: No citizen may have their home, personal property, or their liberty infringed or removed because of tardy taxes. Of course I'd add a section in there that would direct the tax accessor of the appropriate local to send a note to all relevant services to refuse to provide services to you. I'd even them impound vehicles that were operated on public streets without the appropriate licenses. Don't want to let your house burn down, fine. Let the fucker burn to the slab. Your daughter gets raped, fine. You figure out who did it on your own. Don't want to pay vehicle and related taxes, fine don't drive your vehicle on public streets. Just face it. It isn't the threat of violence that pisses you off. It's that you have social responsibilities to those around you. Taxes represent a responsibility that you don't want and to hell with the consequences. > this in a physical sense, not a legal one-- then what is to stop me or > anyone else from telling it to fuck off? Such a state cannot govern > those who do not wish to be governed, and so would not be a government. No state can govern those who don't wish to be governed, violence or no. [I've deleted a great gob of this since it's the same just rehashed in different sentences.] And to answer a specific question, I'm familiar with Dawkins work. > When two bears approach the same berry bush, they do not immediately > start fighting over it. What time of year is it? If we're talking in the spring when they're just out of hibernation they will begin to attack immediately. If it is two males in rut in the fall they will attack immediately. If you examine the way Alaskan Browns share the Salmon runs in the spring you will find ample evidence why Dawkins example isn't worth the paper it's writ on. > Instead, they each stick to one side of the > bush, and do not disturb one another. Malarcky. I'm familiar with the way bears and other mammals work and this is gibberish. Unless the bears are related one of them will be finding another bush pronto. > pretty good at attacking things. It would be pretty easy for a > exceptional bear to break this rule, and become dominant over the other > bears, if what you say is true. Except your forgetting the nature of bears. Except in heat bears are solitary animals. They don't like groups and avoid them. They defend their territory to whatever level of force is required. In most cases (Alaskan Brown are a well studied example you can find tons of literature on) they will not even approach each other closer than several hundred feet. So the question of them sharing a berry bush is a contrived example that is irrelevant and doesn't occur in nature outside of family groups that are transient and only last 1-2 years depending on the type of bear and the food supply. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Sun Nov 8 13:04:05 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 05:04:05 +0800 Subject: Advertising Creepiness (fwd) Message-ID: <199811081816.MAA05583@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: Information Security > Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 12:59:09 -0500 (EST) > Subject: Re: Advertising Creepiness > Would you like to know whether it is "fair use" to repost entire articles? > > I would. When it is non-profit, and is equivalent to my neighbor bringing his morning paper over to show me a story (I don't subscribe to the paper so I haven't a license with the copyright holder in principle or practice) he wants to talk about. With the way the law is going that will soon be illegal for me to even look at the paper, though we can probably still talk about it. Though the probable next step is to make even that verbal recitation illegal. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From adam at homeport.org Mon Nov 9 05:09:00 1998 From: adam at homeport.org (Adam Shostack) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 05:09:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: TEMPEST Laptop from Wang Message-ID: <19981109082107.A13046@weathership.homeport.org> Sorry to not post the article, but Wang just announced a TEMPEST compliant portable computer. http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,28483,00.html?st.ne.fd.mdh -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Sun Nov 8 13:10:18 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 05:10:18 +0800 Subject: IP: Discover Alien Life With Your PC And SETI (fwd) Message-ID: <199811081829.MAA05664@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 20:39:58 -0800 > From: Steve Schear > Subject: Re: IP: Discover Alien Life With Your PC And SETI > Perhaps I'm missing something, but it seems to me that if I were an alien > civilization and wanted to send out a beacon, in as wide an angle as > possible, across the vast reaches of space and overcome as much of the path > losses as possible using the least energy I certainly wouldn't use a narrow > band signal. Quite the contrary, I'd want to spread a low bandwidth > information signal across the widest practical spectrum. Its much easier to > increase process gain (the ratio of the baseband information signal to the > final carrier bandwidth) than transmit power. The problem becomes the 1/r^2 losses. The receivers on this end have fixed lower end to their sensitivity that sets a minimal effective energy output at the transmitter. If you do the math you find that the entire Earth doesn't generate enough energy to send a spread-spectrum wide-band signal more than a few light-years out, not worth the effort or the social costs (nobody'd know about it because radio and television and such wouldn't be available since we're using all *that* energy for sending the signal). This might work for a hive mentality society but not for people. > While a narrow band signal from Arecibo's powerful transmitter/antenna > combination can be detected at a distance of about 300 light years. Since it's only been transmitting intermittenly about 30 years that's more than a tad moot. > Switching to a spread spectrum approach could allow broadening the antenna > pattern, and thereby its chances of detection, significantly without > reducing its effective range. Spread spectrum won't effect the beam angle of the dish, that's set when the dish is designed - spread spectrum or not. Also you'll need to build a new set of LMB's since the old ones won't be able to handle the frequency range or the gross power input required to keep the new signal at a given frequency at a respectible power level with the other frequencies we're now operating on in parallel. That baby's gonna get hot. > Notice how 63 dB (or over 2,000,000 fold > effective increase in transmit power) of process gain enables handheld GPS > receivers to pull in signals from satellites, sent using only a few watts > of transmit power, without much of an antenna. It's amazing how much you can pull in when you increase the sensitivity of the front-end and use mechanisms to reduce noise. > If all this seems to make sense, then why are the SETI people apparently > seaching the skies with lots of narrow band receivers? They don't seem to > be employing any broadband correlator techniques, so spread signals will > probably be missed. Then you haven't been keeping up with the Million Channel Receiver system that has been operating at Aricebo for several years. You also haven't been keeping up with the folks out at White Sands either who also impliment receivers of the same spread-spectrum type. Just about all the current big money (there ain't any since the feds cut the budget several years ago) projects use this system and the small-money and individual projects also impliment it but at a lower range of bandwidth sampled. It isn't that these folks don't want to use the latest technology it's that they can't.....$$$. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From trgz941 at netscape.com Mon Nov 9 05:12:46 1998 From: trgz941 at netscape.com (trgz941 at netscape.com) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 05:12:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: BOOST YOUR WEB SITE'S TRAFFIC--GET LISTED ON YAHOO! Message-ID: BOOST YOUR WEB SITE'S TRAFFIC--GET LISTED ON YAHOO! ---------------- THE MARKETING BENEFITS OF HAVING A YAHOO! LISTING FACT: Yahoo! is the most important search engine/directory on which your Web site can be listed. 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From trgz941 at netscape.com Mon Nov 9 05:14:33 1998 From: trgz941 at netscape.com (trgz941 at netscape.com) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 05:14:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: BOOST YOUR WEB SITE'S TRAFFIC--GET LISTED ON YAHOO! Message-ID: <724mlh8h7UOO> BOOST YOUR WEB SITE'S TRAFFIC--GET LISTED ON YAHOO! ---------------- THE MARKETING BENEFITS OF HAVING A YAHOO! LISTING FACT: Yahoo! is the most important search engine/directory on which your Web site can be listed. FACT: Independently conducted Internet studies show that 42% of all Internet traffic and 70% of all business-to- business Web site traffic is generated from Yahoo!. FACT: Getting your Web site listed on Yahoo! is without question the single most important marketing step you can take to promote your Web site. EXAMPLE: For some of our clients, a Yahoo! listing is the only Internet advertising they have--and the only advertising they need. 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Project Team, please REPLY to this E-mail with the word "REMOVE" in the E-mail's subject line. Thank you. From nobody at replay.com Sun Nov 8 13:21:51 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 05:21:51 +0800 Subject: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone In-Reply-To: <199811071710.LAA02112@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199811082022.VAA12297@replay.com> >You are proposing a means of setting up a benign government. For it to be >a government, it must wield sufficient power to rule. For it to be >benign, it must be run by "good" men (i.e. those who will not use the >state to increase their personal power). But as you pointed out, it is >foolish to trust that the state will be run by such individuals, >regardless of who they are. Thus it would seem that it is impossible to >create a benign state. Thus we should avoid having one. State is not "created" or "set up". This assumes in-born willingness and desire of subjects to have a state, and that a state becomes because so-called "people" need it. Or that having a state is somehow natural order of things. A state is just an extension of a tribal power structure, or, deeper into the past, successor to silverback hierarchy. A group of people (families, clans, etc.) that happen to have power over the rest on some territory. The centuries long brainwashing to the contrary has successfully muddled the issue and made it "something complicated and not for ordinary people to worry about." And a great topic for ranting. The semantics of this indoctrination are deep in the language. In newspeak it is impossible to think wrong thoughts. A state is not "run" by individuals - (that neatly implies that it is something above mere individuals) - state is just a terrific excuse for individuals for herding the rest. "State" is not good or bad, any more that a tree is good or bad. State is creation of human ability to abstract, and demonstrates self-limiting attribute of intellect in general. We are capable of imagining extremely perverse systems for screwing ourselves voluntarily. Using that to one's personal benefit is as natural as eating. And history proves that. The question is, can we really escape newspeak limitations ? Is a new language required for individuals to exist ? Maybe use of an ancient tongue that is not polluted with the modern bias ? Me From nobody at replay.com Sun Nov 8 13:23:17 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 05:23:17 +0800 Subject: A question about the new ISP ruling and email... Message-ID: <199811082015.VAA11783@replay.com> At 09:29 PM 11/7/98 GMT, phelix at vallnet.com wrote: >Is an anymous remailer needs to register, what will the implications be? Armbands next, bubby. From guy at panix.com Sun Nov 8 13:23:37 1998 From: guy at panix.com (Information Security) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 05:23:37 +0800 Subject: Advertising Creepiness Message-ID: <199811081759.MAA27023@panix7.panix.com> > From owner-ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Sat Nov 7 16:04:32 1998 > To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com, cypherpunks at cyberpass.net > From: Robert Hettinga > Subject: IP: Re: A question about the new ISP ruling and email... > Cc: believer at telepath.com > > Now *this* should be fun. Someone who claims to be a cypherpunk is now > going to call the copyright police on a non-profit, volunteer news list. Would you like to know whether it is "fair use" to repost entire articles? I would. > When the going gets tough, the "tough" rat out the innocent, it appears... "Innocent" is hardly an accurate description of Michele Moore. Would you like Information Security to cough up more color on his netcopping move? Hey, you ratted me out to the IP list! ;-) ---- > From: Steve Mynott > Subject: Re: Advertising Creepiness > > On Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 11:50:05PM -0800, Tim May wrote: > > > Myself, I try to mostly just snip out a few paragraphs of a story and > > comment on them, fair use and all. > > > > My guess is that nearly all of us skip this junk > > completely, and I think marketing studies will someday confirm this. > > Click through rates are something like 2%, so most are screening them out. > I rarely noticed what the ads actually said. > > > (Yes, I tried the utilities which purport to flush banner ads, but they > > didn't work well (long delays, cruftiness).) > > I don't know which ones you have tried but junkbuster > > http://www.junkbuster.org/ (a proxy on port 8000) > > works _very_ well on my linux system, particularly with the "blank gif" > patch. > > It blanks out 99% of banner gifs, which makes pages like metacrawler and > wired look more visually attractive and load faster. But, when sites get smarter about using server-side includes, the I/O delays will still be there. I think ISPs should offer a proxy service for WWW access. They have bigger pipes. This could include an opt-in (configure through an ISP-local WWW page) adbuster. At the same time, it would to a certain extent anonymize access. And let's say cable-modem access becomes wide-spread, and legislation forces the cable companies to allow ISP choice. I think ISPs that offer some privacy in user access over this shared medium will have a leg-up on their competition. That would involve software residing local to the user's box that would encrypt access between them and the ISP for WWW, email, ftp, etc. More than just ssh. Hey, then you would finally have ads that make clear what encryption is for the average user: picture two neighbors going to work in the morning meeting in the elevator, and one starts hinting he knows what the other was receiving for email, which sites he was surfing... Maybe the Anonymizer.com people will release/sell such software for ISPs, and, of course, sans GAK. ---guy From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Sun Nov 8 14:07:51 1998 From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 06:07:51 +0800 Subject: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd) Message-ID: <199811082058.OAA06231@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: Matthew James Gering > Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone > (fwd) > Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 12:39:33 -0800 > > You missed my point. What I'm trying to point out is that no > > government (or any other body, for that matter) can prevent > > someone from doing something. All the state can do (and does, > > if you look closely) is offer to punish anyone who disobeys it. > > Again that is simply incorrect, or do you wish to tell me that our military > has not prevented the invasion of the continental US in this century, or > that it did not prevent the Soviet Union from expanding across Europe? You > cannot completely discount *deterrent force*, although it is greatly > overrated. Woah. This extension into foreign powers and such is an entirely different venue. The entire discussion is based around the question of a government and those citizens within it. When we start talking about multiple government and multiple citizen sets the whole issue is orders of magnitude more complex. > Nor can a government use *retribution force* if it does not know the > perpetrator. Tell that to the hostages that were killed during the occupation of France. > Your statement boils down to the government is not omnipotent. Well duh! Agreed. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From die at die.com Sun Nov 8 14:12:51 1998 From: die at die.com (Dave Emery) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 06:12:51 +0800 Subject: TEMPEST laptops (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199811050611.AAA10989@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <19981108155839.C15373@die.com> On Thu, Nov 05, 1998 at 12:11:20AM -0600, Jim Choate wrote: > > It depends on the frequency. Last time I checked a laser or a maser (both > are radio waves strictly speaking) travel LOS. The scattering comes from > beam divergence and incidental refractions and reflections from the > molecules in the air and supported detritus. Lasers are a technology for generating light, not kinds of radio waves. And masers are a fairly obscure technology for amplifiying weak microwave signals in cryogenicly cooled devices. Both deal with electomagnetic radiation and obey Maxwells laws .... > > > Microwave ovens work by having the waves bounce around inside a box. Any > > significant hole or crack (up to roughly half the wavelength) would let the > > waves out. > > Depends on the size of the hole and location. In most microwave ovens there > are definite dead-spots (corners and the exact center of the area are > notorius). Most microwave ovens incorperate a motorized metallic device called a stirrer that sits directly in the beam of energy from the magnetron and is designed to reflect microwave energy bouncing around the cavity and change the standing wave pattern as it rotates, resulting in much more even distribution of energy. Without the stirrer hots spots would be much worse... > > > An open top box will not work. > > If the microwaves (for example) are transmitted parallel to the open side it > might very well work just fine. It's going to depend on a variety of > factors that will preclude such a blanket statement from being valid. > Difraction becomes very significant for openings near in scale to the wavelength of the energy in question, thus the edges of the top will act to scatter energy in all directions... > > The absolute magnitude isn't really important. > > Most of the signals that are emitted by a computer are not in the 100dB > dynamic range (@2x=3db that's a signal range of 1:33) , more likely 40-50db > if that. For a TTL (5V) signal it barely covers 3dB (LOW is <2.5v and a > high is >=4.75). There simply is no way in hell a signal with a 3dB range is > going to emit a rf signal that is 100dB. This makes no sense whatsoever. The EM radiation takes place when changes in the current flowing happen. Thus radiation occurs only when the TTL signal changes state, not during either its high voltage or low volage state. The amplitude of the current step is determined by the impedance of the circuit and how fast the logic switches and how great the voltage or current swing is , and how effectively it gets radiated is determined by the geometry of the conductor and its sourounding ohjects. EM radiation results only from changes in the magnetic and electric fields, not from their steady state values. Thus it is entirely meaningless to talk of the change in steady state values as only "3 db" when no radiation results from either the steady high or steady low value. And indeed near the conductor, the energy radiated from the current step will be 100 db greater than the ambiant (decibels are relative units, thus it is meaningless to talk of "radiating a rf signal that is 100 db"). -- Dave Emery N1PRE, die at die.com DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2 5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18 From schear at lvcm.com Sun Nov 8 14:39:34 1998 From: schear at lvcm.com (Steve Schear) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 06:39:34 +0800 Subject: A question about the new ISP ruling and email... (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199811080408.WAA04069@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: >> `(B) accommodates and does not interfere with standard >> technical measures. >> >> `(2) DEFINITION- As used in this subsection, the term >> `standard technical measures' means technical measures that are used >> by copyright owners to identify or protect copyrighted works and-- >> >> `(A) have been developed pursuant to a broad consensus of >> copyright owners and service providers in an open, fair, voluntary, >> multi-industry standards process; > >So this is voluntary? > >> `(B) are available to any person on reasonable and >> nondiscriminatory terms; and > >Meaning they themselves aren't copyrighted? > >> `(C) do not impose substantial costs on service providers or >> substantial burdens on their systems or >> networks. > >Imposition of *any* cost is a substantial burden. And this is where we should fight them. When the CDA was struck down one of the compelling arguments accepted by the court was that it was way too costly for information providers to police those accessing their sites. The same argument can easily be made for posted materials, especially the huge Usenet feed. --Steve From mgering at ecosystems.net Sun Nov 8 14:56:54 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 06:56:54 +0800 Subject: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd) Message-ID: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B266@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com> > You missed my point. What I'm trying to point out is that no > government (or any other body, for that matter) can prevent > someone from doing something. All the state can do (and does, > if you look closely) is offer to punish anyone who disobeys it. 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If you would like not to recieve any other mailings of this type please goto: http//3625362989/ From ichudov at video-collage.com Mon Nov 9 07:41:23 1998 From: ichudov at video-collage.com (Igor Chudov) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 23:41:23 +0800 Subject: test5 Message-ID: <199811091504.KAA15499@mail.video-collage.com> test5 From guy at panix.com Mon Nov 9 07:54:22 1998 From: guy at panix.com (Information Security) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 23:54:22 +0800 Subject: Advertising Creepiness In-Reply-To: <199811090115.RAA23804@smtp.well.com> Message-ID: <199811091519.KAA01473@panix2.panix.com> > From: Declan McCullagh > Subject: Re: Advertising Creepiness > > Something that came across our Reuters feed over the weekend is a lawsuit > by the whitehouse.com folks -- they're pissed that a new version of > Netscape has some "intelligent" guessing features that, when someone types > in "whitehouse," automatically take 'em to whitehouse.gov. > > Which interferes with the rights of the whitehouse.com porn site, or so the > argument goes. At least it doesn't cost $40 million to get porn from whitehouse.com. Sounds like a pro-consumer move to me. ;-) > At 12:59 PM 11-8-98 -0500, Information Security wrote: > > > From owner-ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com Sat Nov 7 16:04:32 1998 > > > From: Robert Hettinga > > > > > > Now *this* should be fun. Someone who claims to be a cypherpunk is now > > > going to call the copyright police on a non-profit, volunteer news list. > > > >Would you like to know whether it is "fair use" to repost entire articles? > > > >I would. > > > > > When the going gets tough, the "tough" rat out the innocent... > > > >"Innocent" is hardly an accurate description of Michele Moore. > > > >Would you like Information Security to cough up more > >color on his netcopping move? > From declan at well.com Sun Nov 8 20:15:48 1998 > > Whether you love or hate current copyright laws, it's a stretch to argue > that it's legal to republish (by forwarding) articles in full. > > Willfully redistributing copyrighted material in violation of fair use > principles is, depending on the value, also a federal crime. Redistributing > a $1 article to thousands of people would be a felony. (Note I don't > endorse this law, but it's useful to know what the law is.) I guess that qualifies as a request for more color. In the local Panix Usenet groups, I've reposted quite a few whole articles, often from the IP list. Finally, a couple people made a stink, and officially complained to Panix. Carl Fink wrote: : On 11 Sep 1998 23:54:58 GMT, Information Security wrote: : Okay, I've been tolerating this for a long time, but: this is a : violation of both Federal and international law. Post URLs, not articles. My inelegant response: Eat me. The local posters kept applying pressure: : But beyond whatever legal consequences this may entail for you : personally, I wonder what consequences it could conceivably entail for : panix. Posting copyrighted material to general Usenet newsgroups is : one thing -- panix's staff could reasonably claim that they cannot : monitor or filter every Usenet newsgroup. But they could not : reasonably make that argument about the local panix newsgroups. The thread grew full of legal claims, and Panix consulted with lawyers. In the following post by the owner of Panix, the references to "sections 1,3,4" are from the IP list's fair use declaration URL http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml # Path: news.panix.com!not-for-mail # From: alexis at panix.com (Alexis Rosen) # Newsgroups: panix.announce,panix.policy,panix.chat,panix.questions # Subject: Determination on copyright issue # Date: 17 Sep 1998 11:28:27 GMT # Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC # # # This message is in response to the discussion/flamewar in several groups # over the posting of copyrighted material by guy at panix.com. Please read it, # think about it, read it again, and think again before posting in response. # This is a pretty nasty subject. # # In the wake of the postings and complaints to staff about guy's postings, # I consulted with two lawyers about this issue. One was a BLM, and the other # is a BLM and RIPE too. (Those are extremely technical acronyms for Brilliant # Legal Mind and Recognized Intellectual Property Expert. :-) # # [snip] # # I'm not going to go into the details much, because IANAL. But in short, # here's the answer: Fair use is a VERY fuzzily-defined concept, not in # principle where it's stated clearly in the law (as quoted here several # times recently), but in practice, where the courts try to interpret it. # Guy's claim for fair use could easily be correct, according to the BLMs, # because it may well qualify under sections 1, 3, and 4. I didn't think # so, but then again, I'm not a BLM, much less a RIPE. It would be a truly # terrible idea for us to take action, given the reasonable possibility that # there is no violation. # # It was also pointed out to me that Panix can not act against Guy's posts # without threatening its own position in any future case that might hinge # on whether Panix were an Editor of panix group contents. This might or # might not be the case were someone to start posting large quantities of # commercial software, but the two cases aren't similar, since guy's # postings aren't obvious and uncontestable violations. # # In any event, the BLMs' opinion was that I should very definitely leave # guy alone. This ruling extends to the one or two others that occasionally # post copyrighted material of similar nature, including one of Panix's staff. # # Of course, were the volume of such posts to rise substantially, things might # be different. So this should not be seen as an invitation for all Panixians # to start posting their favorite copyrighted material here on a regular # basis. # # Lastly: In an ideal world, everyone would learn from this and leave the # topic, wiser if sadder. In this less-than-ideal world, if you really want # to post a followup, I suggest that you consult a lawyer. If I hadn't, I'd # surely have stuck my foot in my mouth all the way up to my knee the first # time I posted about this topic. # # /a So, I was allowed to continue posting whole articles. That's what the lawyers advised. Then, the Digital Copyright Massive Federal Interference Act... > Fair Use vs. Intellectual Property: The U.S. Congress > passed the Digital Millenium Copyright Act, a bill designed to > distinguish between fair use and protected intellectual property > in cyberspace. > > I chose the IP list as the next-level test case... ---guy snipped source: http://www.wcco.com/news/stories/news-981106-144532.html Suspicious Object Found On Capitol Mall Was Not A Bomb ST. PAUL, Updated 8:35 p.m. November 6, 1998 -- Police hauled away a package with the words "Impeach Clinton Now" and signed by "the Mad Bomber" from the state Capitol on Friday, but temporarily lost when it flew out of a bomb squad trailer. A KSTP-TV helicopter was following the bomb squad van as it drove off towing a trailer containing the suspicious package. The station was taping as the package flew out of the open trailer in the wind and at least three cars ran over it. It took police about an hour to find the remains in the highway median. Some 200 employees, including Gov.-elect Jesse Ventura, were forced to leave the Capitol... From owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM Mon Nov 9 08:04:05 1998 From: owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM (owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 00:04:05 +0800 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199811091527.KAA16405@mail.video-collage.com> >From ichudov Mon Nov 9 10:27:22 1998 Received: (from ichudov at localhost) by mail.video-collage.com (8.9.1a/8.8.5) id KAA16394 for cypherpunks; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 10:27:22 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 10:27:22 -0500 (EST) From: Igor Chudov Message-Id: <199811091527.KAA16394 at mail.video-collage.com> To: cypherpunks Subject: test5 Reply-To: ichudov at algebra.com (Igor Chudov) Sender: owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: cypherpunks at algebra.com X-List-Admin: ichudov at algebra.com X-Loop: cypherpunks at algebra.com test5 From petro at playboy.com Mon Nov 9 08:23:45 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 00:23:45 +0800 Subject: Wang touts spy-proof portable Message-ID: <3646FFCE.CBF343B6@playboy.com> http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,28483,00.html?st.ne.ni.lh Wang Global has introduced a new portable computer, but it's not going to be winning any svelteness contests. Wang's Tempest Mobile Workstation, 3 inches thick and weighting 14.5 pounds, is designed for government officials who need spy-proof computers that don't leak any telltale signals to electronic eavesdroppers. ... I want... From Andrew.Loewenstern at wdr.com Mon Nov 9 08:43:58 1998 From: Andrew.Loewenstern at wdr.com (Andrew Loewenstern) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 00:43:58 +0800 Subject: Digicash bankruptcy In-Reply-To: <002701be0939$b34ce720$bf011712@games> Message-ID: <9811091614.AA00393@ch1d524iwk> Phill writes: > The fact that Chaum didn't have the monopoly he appeared to > imagine is probably why nobody was queuing up to pay his > demands. Name some other deployable payer anonymous electronic payment systems that are in competetion with DigiCash. andrew From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Mon Nov 9 09:12:27 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 01:12:27 +0800 Subject: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd) Message-ID: <199811091643.KAA11939@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: "X" > Subject: RE: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force > Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 08:56:29 -0700 > I hope against hope that you are being sarcastic, here. Obviously our > F**KED up red-tape spewing government could never pull off such an endeavor. > Unless, of course, there was a simple way to tell the tax-payers apart from > those wretched NON-payers. Maybe something like an ARMBAND? Embedded > sub-cut microchip? Bar-code tattoos? > > Now you've got a workable plan! How do they tell if you pay taxes now? They keep records. The taxpayer could also be issued a receipt as proof. Make it DL sized and it'd go right in your wallat. It would actualy reduce the amount of paperwork because the vast amount of enforcement labor and resources wouldn't be needed. Then there is the obvious observation that folks such as yourself wouldn't lie about not-being a tax-payer if asked by the nice fireman who just saved your house (after all it would be a serious crime). Me thinks you protest too much. It isn't that you don't want to pay taxes, or that you object to paying higher costs for services than a regular tax payer. You simply want somebody else to pay for the services you use at no cost to yourself. ____________________________________________________________________ Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want the right answers. Scully (X-Files) The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Mon Nov 9 09:28:05 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 01:28:05 +0800 Subject: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd) Message-ID: <199811091704.LAA12150@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: "X" > Subject: RE: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd) > Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 09:54:00 -0700 > ~> Me thinks you protest too much. It isn't that you don't want to ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > ~> pay taxes, > ~> or that you object to paying higher costs for services than a regular tax > ~> payer. You simply want somebody else to pay for the services you use at > ~> no cost to yourself. > ~> > > I think that remark was unfair, uncalled-for, and rude. No where in my post > did I say anything about not wanting to pay. I thought my post was humorous > and in the same sarcastic vein as yours. It was a reply to your statement. If you don't want people to ask questions or draw conclusions from your statements then perhaps you should rething even making those statements. As to sarcasm, there was none in my original posting. > You have insulted me publicly while having no knowledge of who you were > slighting. No, I expressed an opinion as to your motivation. Opinions never insult except when presented as fact. I did not do that. Me still thinks yo protest too much. ____________________________________________________________________ Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want the right answers. Scully (X-Files) The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From sunder at brainlink.com Mon Nov 9 09:30:47 1998 From: sunder at brainlink.com (Ray Arachelian) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 01:30:47 +0800 Subject: Advertising Creepiness In-Reply-To: <199811072128.NAA19724@netcom13.netcom.com> Message-ID: <36471E6E.3E8E96D4@brainlink.com> Tim May wrote: > This is the new "blind spot"...that foveal region about a third of the way > down a Web page screen that has dancing icons, "click on me" junk, and > corporate logos. My guess is that nearly all of us skip this junk > completely, and I think marketing studies will someday confirm this. (There > have been tantalizing reports in places like the "Wall Street Journal" that > basically almost nobody sees these ads, but the full message hasn't sunk > in.) > > And the advertising creeps are getting even creepier. Intel was running a > banner ad that looked like a typical Mac or Windows error/alert box, > something like "Click Here to Resume Operation." Creepy. And annoying. Yep, I ignore them completely. A few of those search here type things did catch my attention. My basic hatred of these isn't that they exist, but that they're large, annoying, and animated. Typically, soon as I see the page fully load I hit ESC or the Stop icon to prevent these evil horrors from popping up. A much more evil thing that I've seen when visiting pages of tripod or other free web site members and now warehouse.com are actual Java Japplets or JavaScripts that pop up another window with an advertisement. Tripod or one of those (I tend to try and forget the ads as hard as I can) has also taken to putting a TV like lower right corner logo that hangs around, even when you scroll the window -- what's really nasty about these fucking things is that they scroll a bit with the window, then jump back to the bottom. What's next? In your face pop up Gif89 movies with AU/WAV sound tracks that can't be dismissed until they play completely before you get to see the content pages? Some places (like Wired?) are annoying since they have a window that's 1/3 content with ads on top and on the side and bottom. I'm trying to read the fucking article, not trying to be distracted by the flashing, flickering eye sores to the right and left. :( Some of the really fucked up sites actually have porno ads with porn in them, which makes them real welcome if I ever visit a page from my work. I wouldn't mind the pr0n if I was at home, but such things are frowned upon at work, and fuck, I didn't even ask to see the shit... :( Talk about feeping creatureism. This is about as bad as flashing HTML was in its inception. Sure you can disable JavaScript, but if you do some sites won't work at all. Ditto for Japplets. Might be nice to have some sort of filter list for browsers that says "If GIF89 and (it's linked elsewhere, or to a CGI or at the top of the page)" don't show it. I guess it's time to do some Mozilla source hacking... -- =====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos============== .+.^.+.| Sunder |Prying open my 3rd eye. So good to see |./|\. ..\|/..|sunder at sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were |/\|/\ <--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run |\/|\/ ../|\..| "A toast to Odin, |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/. .+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were.... |..... ======================= http://www.sundernet.com ========================== From foreclosure-world at foreclosure-world.cc Tue Nov 10 01:53:14 1998 From: foreclosure-world at foreclosure-world.cc (foreclosure-world at foreclosure-world.cc) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 01:53:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: Accept Credit Cards Message-ID: <19981109191303.TAB09534@foreclosure-world.cc> ACCEPT CREDIT CARDS!! PRE-APPROVED APPLICATION Good Credit/Bad Credit/No Credit NO APPLICATION FEES For a Limited Time Only! Regular $195.00 Application Fee Waived For This Offer! Increase Your Business Up To 100% Or More, Just By Accepting Credit Cards! This Means More Customers...More Orders...More Money! We Specialize in Home Based Businesses - Apply Today! Accept Visa, Mastercard, American Express, and Discover! Apply Now by visiting our Online Application Site! We are overwhelmed with Responses... http://209.215.68.186/ * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * If you have received this message in error, please accept our apology as a responsible e-mailer, and reply with the word REMOVE in the subject line. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Mon Nov 9 10:08:25 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 02:08:25 +0800 Subject: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd) Message-ID: <199811091725.LAA12280@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: "X" > Subject: RE: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd) > Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 10:22:00 -0700 > So you are one of those people that truly believes you can insult someone in > public, then say, "I was responding to you" and cap it off with "it's my > opinion" ? You have formed an opinion about me already? And that opinion > includes the fact that I want other people to carry my weight? How absurd > you are, little man! I simply based it on your apparent motivations based on your statements. > If I had thought you were serious about your article, I would have pointed > out the huge flaws in your theory. I gave you credit for well-thought > sarcasm when apparently it was neither. I'm waiting... ____________________________________________________________________ Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want the right answers. Scully (X-Files) The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From tcmay at got.net Mon Nov 9 10:18:24 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 02:18:24 +0800 Subject: Advertising Creepiness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 6:04 AM -0800 11/9/98, Declan McCullagh wrote: >I didn't see Tim's original post, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see >such a right "emerge" in claims by media company lawyers. (Probably not the >advertisers.) > >Something that came across our Reuters feed over the weekend is a lawsuit >by the whitehouse.com folks -- they're pissed that a new version of >Netscape has some "intelligent" guessing features that, when someone types >in "whitehouse," automatically take 'em to whitehouse.gov. > >Which interferes with the rights of the whitehouse.com porn site, or so the >argument goes. Seems to me there are numerous variants and angles: * If the adbuster is user-controlled, it's like handing a copy of "Time" to a butler and saying "Please clip out the articles and throw away all the ads." * And "clipping services" do this and redistribute the results to clients, perhaps with some "copyright remuneration" to the publisher (I just don't know). The ads are obviously not retained. * If a content supplier (Web page, magazine, etc.) has the power to stop adbusters from removing ads, does it also have the power to stop font changes? Or colors? Can a television commercial maker sue to stop viewers from disabling color when viewing his commercial? (Of course this wouldn't happen, for various logistical and common sense reasons, but it seems to me analogous to where users disable dancing Java applets....if disabling dancing Java applets is ruled a violation of the advertiser's leasing of the original copyright, why not block anyone who interferes with a television ad?) * The "whitehouse.com" --> "whitehouse.gov" thing is just another skirmish in the whole Namespace War. Corporations will try to get browsers and search engines to turn spelling errors or perceived errors to their favor. "intek.com" --> "intel.com" I'm glad I'm not a lawyer. --Tim May Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From whgiii at gulf.net Mon Nov 9 10:26:00 1998 From: whgiii at gulf.net (William H. Geiger III) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 02:26:00 +0800 Subject: Advertising Creepiness In-Reply-To: <36471E6E.3E8E96D4@brainlink.com> Message-ID: <199811091746.LAA05131@pompano.pcola.gulf.net> In <36471E6E.3E8E96D4 at brainlink.com>, on 11/09/98 at 11:55 AM, Ray Arachelian said: >Might be nice to have some sort of filter list for browsers that says "If >GIF89 and (it's linked elsewhere, or to a CGI or at the top of the page)" >don't show it. I guess it's time to do some Mozilla source hacking... Rather than hacking nutscrape you might want to run through a modified proxy and have it filter all such garbage. This stuff is not a problem as I only run textmode for http with no java/javascript. If I can't navigate a website that way it is their loss. -- --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.openpgp.net Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html --------------------------------------------------------------- From stuffed at stuffed.net Tue Nov 10 02:36:53 1998 From: stuffed at stuffed.net (STUFFED TUE NOV 10) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 02:36:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY! Message-ID: <19981110081000.6668.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com> + 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS + 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES + FAST LOADING XXX HARDCORE + WHITE CHOCOLATE + BLOW BABY BLOW + NYMPHO9 + ASIAN SLUTS + SAVING RYAN'S PRIVATES + PLAYSX + BLONDES WITH BIG TITS + BITCHES IN HEAT + MIDNIGHT PASSION + BONUS PIC 1 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/13204.htm + BONUS PIC 2 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/18769.htm + BONUS PIC 3 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/10668.htm + BONUS PIC 4 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/19144.htm + BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/24117.htm + MUCH, MUCH MORE! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- This email is never sent unsolicited. Stuffed is the supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full instructions on unsubscribing are in every issue of Eureka! ----> http://stuffed.net/home/ <---- From xasper8d at lobo.net Mon Nov 9 11:01:27 1998 From: xasper8d at lobo.net (X) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 03:01:27 +0800 Subject: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199811091725.LAA12280@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <000b01be0c0f$19720c60$9d2580d0@ibm> Sorry, everyone, for this crap coming up, but JIM CHOATE wants you all to see it... Jim, You keep reposting this to the cpunx list, and I keep trying to discuss it with you in private. X says: ~> > If I had thought you were serious about your article, I would ~> have pointed ~> > out the huge flaws in your theory. I gave you credit for well-thought ~> > sarcasm when apparently it was neither. ~> And Jim's witty response was: ~> I'm waiting... Correct me if I'm wrong, but the gist of your system was a two-tiered payment schedule where Group A could be called TaxPayers and Group B could be called NON-Payers. Right? And basically, Group A would get all of the benefits that a fully paid membership would entail, right? Secondly, Group B would "not pay taxes" and would NOT be entitled to any benefits save for on a pay-as-you-go type arrangement. Right? What USGov't services do you include in your proposal? Let's list a few, (feel free to jump in with some more.) U.S. Mail services Common defense Air traffic controlling roadways and interstates Food and Drug Administration approvals Federally mandated minimum wage automobile safety standards Is your tax progressive or regressive? If I'm right so far (which I may or may not be) then we have to talk about your definition of "paying taxes." Does a single woman raising five kids and paying a small mortgage making $14,200 per year pay taxes? No, unfortunately for her, she doesn't. I guess that puts her smack into GROUP B! Well, that's simple enough! We'll deny her the creature comforts of the list above until she chips in her proportionate cost, right? When that libertarian bitch tries to send mail, we'll charge her more! WHen she gets on the freeway, we'll toll her! When she buys a medicine for her snot-nosed urchin, we'll give her the stuff that ain't been FDA approved, right? RIGHT! And, if ever we should need to attack another country (or defend ours, as you pointed out) SHE'LL happily volunteer to serve (as I remember your post) in order to protect her TAX-FREE STATUS. As you said to me, she's probably just looking for someone to shoulder her part of the load, right? You said it would be easy to implement, right? I don't see that it would be easy at all. Once again, I apologize for the OFF TOPIC nature of this, but MR. COHATE (freudian slip, or merely coincidence? you be the judge!) insisted on duking this out in public. X From petro at playboy.com Mon Nov 9 11:02:35 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 03:02:35 +0800 Subject: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd) In-Reply-To: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B258@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com> Message-ID: At 4:25 PM -0500 11/6/98, Matthew James Gering wrote: >Matthew James Gering wrote: >> >Provided you don't corrupt the meaning of free-market to include >> >any possible black market, then yes, there will *always* be a >> >black market. It can be made rather insignificant however. > >Petro responded: >> Assuming your definition of "free market" is "a market without >> regulation", you can't have a black market in a free market >> since a black market is trade in violation of regulations. > >Like I said, if you don't corrupt the meaning of free market. >Laissez Faire capitalism is based on a concept of individual rights. >Therefore the proper role of any government (in a libertarian state) or >individual/social institution (in rational anarchy) is to protect individual >rights (life, liberty, property), and act as an objective framework for >retributive force. >Therefore, any transaction that violates individual rights is immoral (if >not illegal) and constitutes a black market. >e.g. assassinations, ransom, stolen goods, extortion, slavery, etc. >To create a anarcho-capitalist definition of free market where everything >goes and there is no concept of individual rights is as immoral and perverse >as the statist concepts that similarly have no concept of individual rights >(fascism, communism). Traditional usage of the term "black market" (at least in my experience with the term) includes the markets for things often proscribed (such as weapons, drugs, abortions) or marketed outside of the legally mandated channels (food, clothing, liquor etc. purchased from non-approved stores) or w/out government approved taxes being levied. Legal issues, not moral ones. To try to discuss the markets in terms of "human rights", or to expect the market to reflect ones own morality is ridiculous. Is slavery wrong? Would a Saudi Arabian, or a Kuwaitee (Kuwaition?) agree? What about drugs, does their use violate your human rights principle? Would someone from the South Side of Chicago, or Watts agree? The market itself is only concerned with legality, not morality. Discussions of right and wrong do not take place at that point, and neither do questions of "human rights". My point was that as you move towards the "ideal" of a free market, there is less and less that one can call a "black market". True, things can still be illegal--Slavery, drugs and the rest, and those things which Oh, and Extortion is already part of the market, it's called taxes. -- "To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather na�ve, and certainly unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust" http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro at playboy.com From nobody at replay.com Mon Nov 9 11:08:28 1998 From: nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 03:08:28 +0800 Subject: Fwd: [ISN] Wang touts spy-proof portable Message-ID: <199811091833.TAA14454@replay.com> >X-Authentication-Warning: enigma.repsec.com: majordomo set sender to >owner-isn at repsec.com using -f >Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 21:35:22 -0700 (MST) >From: mea culpa >To: InfoSec News >Subject: [ISN] Wang touts spy-proof portable >X-NoSpam: Pursuant to US Code; Title 47; Chapter 5; Subchapter II; 227 >X-NoSpam: any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address >X-NoSpam: is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 US. >X-NoSpam: E-mailing to this address denotes acceptance of these terms. >X-Copyright: This e-mail copyright 1998 by jericho at dimensional.com >Sender: owner-isn at repsec.com >Reply-To: mea culpa >x-unsubscribe: echo "unsubscribe isn" | mail majordomo at repsec.com >x-infosecnews: x-loop, procmail, etc > > >Forwarded From: William Knowles > >[News.com] (11.8.98) Wang Global has introduced a new portable computer, >but it's not going to be winning any svelteness contests. > >Wang's Tempest Mobile Workstation, 3 inches thick and weighting 14.5 >pounds, is designed for government officials who need spy-proof computers >that don't leak any telltale signals to electronic eavesdroppers. > >The boxes are designed to meet the U.S. government's "Tempest" >specification, which requires a computer to release extremely low amounts >of electromagnetic emissions that could reveal what information the >computer is processing. > >To protect against such emissions, Tempest-compliant machines must be >encased in a lot of metal. Wang's portable looks like a thick laptop, said >Wang spokeswoman Loretta Day, "but it's really so heavy, you can't really >call it a laptop" --all that metal would make it quite a burden for your >lap. > >As an added bonus, all that metal shields the computer from the >electromagnetic pulse (EMP) generated by an exploding nuclear bomb that >wreaks havoc with anything electronic. > >When it's running, the machine can withstand a shock of five Gs--that's >five times the acceleration caused by the Earth's gravity. But when it's >switched off, it can take a 60-G shock. > >Aside from being spy-proof, the new Wang system has some features that are >familiar to ordinary buyers: a 15.1-inch LCD screen, a 233-MHz or 266-MHz >Pentium II processor, a CD-ROM drive, and your choice of a 4GB, 6GB, or >8GB removable hard disk. > >Wang also makes Tempest-compliant desktop computers, printers, routers, >switches, and servers. It's one of a handful of such companies that supply >the equipment to the government. Day said the chief customers are the >State Department and intelligence agencies. Wang also makes computer >equipment that complies with the Zone standard, similar to but less >stringent than the Tempest standard. > >Pricing on the Wang portable wasn't available, but a competitor's Tempest >portable computer with more lesser features was listed at one government >Web site as costing more than $10,000. > > >-o- >Subscribe: mail majordomo at repsec.com with "subscribe isn". >Today's ISN Sponsor: Repent Security Incorporated [www.repsec.com] From tcmay at got.net Mon Nov 9 11:26:36 1998 From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 03:26:36 +0800 Subject: Advertising Creepiness In-Reply-To: <199811091403.GAA27556@smtp.well.com> Message-ID: At 9:50 AM -0800 11/9/98, Tim May wrote: >Seems to me there are numerous variants and angles: > >* If the adbuster is user-controlled, it's like handing a copy of "Time" to >a butler and saying "Please clip out the articles and throw away all the >ads." > >* And "clipping services" do this and redistribute the results to clients, >perhaps with some "copyright remuneration" to the publisher (I just don't >know). The ads are obviously not retained. By the way, the White House and Pentagon are major forwarders of clipped material. The daily intelligence briefing, for example, clips from newspapers, magazines, wire services, etc. I can understand Declan trying to be a loyal reporter by urging people to buy the magazine or go to the ad-laden site, but clearly a lot of folks are already bouncing stuff around cyberspace, including the White House. It is _remotely_ possible that the gov't. is paying some token amount to Time Warner, CNN, WSJ, etc., but I doubt it. Speaking of the gov't. conveniently ignoring what it expects private players to do, a few days before the California election I got a telephone phone solicitation from a male voice identifying himself as the Calif. Secretary of State. Ordinary advertising, right? Well, it was a) left on my answering machine, and b) was itself a recording. California officials not subject to the "robot's rules of order" laws, which forbid the practices above, especially in combination. You can bet that if J. Random Corporation was using robot dialers and leaving recorded messages on answering machines there would be the threat of prosecution. (Actually, most threats to corporations are just shakedowns, and are considered discharged when the corporation makes the appropriate campaign contribution.) Of course, in a system where the Chief Executive can perjure himself with impunity, can suborn perjury, can tamper with evidence, and can use public monies to cause his subordinates to suborn perjury and perjure and tamper with evidence.... (Not to mention violating the export laws and committing high treason by supplying the Red Chinese with ICBM technology....and kiling Vince Foster for his attack of conscience and his plans to meet with a reporter....) Ah, Amerika. --Tim May Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. From s1180 at qmail.pjwstk.waw.pl Mon Nov 9 11:27:33 1998 From: s1180 at qmail.pjwstk.waw.pl (Jan Dobrucki) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 03:27:33 +0800 Subject: SR2201 Supercomputer Message-ID: <36473A7F.E5BDC1F5@qmail.pjwstk.waw.pl> http://www.hitachi.co.jp/Prod/comp/hpc/eng/sr1.html Is the link for more information, in english... And I can't find a stupid computer and a printer in one place that prints postscript so I still haven't been able to give in my application for the account on this super computer... JD From s1180 at qmail.pjwstk.waw.pl Mon Nov 9 11:31:08 1998 From: s1180 at qmail.pjwstk.waw.pl (Jan Dobrucki) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 03:31:08 +0800 Subject: SR2201 Supercomputer Message-ID: <36473AA1.4BB5F5B5@qmail.pjwstk.waw.pl> http://www.hitachi.co.jp/Prod/comp/hpc/eng/sr1.html Is the link for more information, in english... And I can't find a stupid computer and a printer in one place that prints postscript so I still haven't been able to give in my application for the account on this super computer... JD From s1180 at qmail.pjwstk.waw.pl Mon Nov 9 11:55:37 1998 From: s1180 at qmail.pjwstk.waw.pl (Jan Dobrucki) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 03:55:37 +0800 Subject: SR2201 Supercomputer Message-ID: <36473F38.5D764835@qmail.pjwstk.waw.pl> http://www.hitachi.co.jp/Prod/comp/hpc/eng/sr1.html Is the link for more information, in english... And I can't find a stupid computer and a printer in one place that prints postscript so I still haven't been able to give in my application for the account on this super computer... JD From petro at playboy.com Mon Nov 9 12:08:00 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 04:08:00 +0800 Subject: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone(fwd) In-Reply-To: <199811062338.RAA00510@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: At 6:38 PM -0500 11/6/98, Jim Choate wrote: >Forwarded message: > >> Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:34:34 -0500 >> From: Petro >> Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone >> (fwd) > >> Assuming your definition of "free market" is "a market without >> regulation", you can't have a black market in a free market since a black >> market is trade in violation of regulations. > >Actualy a black market is usualy goods gotten through theft or other illegal >means, not necessarily anything related to how or what is sold. If you don't >corrupt free-market to include legitimizing theft as a viable market >strategy then yes, you can in fact have a black market in a free-market. Usualy != Correctly. Take tomatoes. Perfectly legal (AFAIK) everywhere, here in this country a 5 year old child can buy a tomato from a farmer with a stand on the side of the road. If you go back 10 years, and if "this country" was the soviet union, a tomato purchased from the wrong person could get you in trouble. Entirely HOW the item was sold. This is true in this coutry. Licquor is legal if purchased thru the approved store. Try selling the same thing out of the back of your truck. It is the product, or how the product is sold. >Let's consider auto-theft. The issue isn't that you can't buy the car >through legitimate means, it just means you have to have more resources than So take ampthetimines (well, don't take them, but take the case of them), if I get them from Joe Random Drug Dealer, it's black Market, if I get them from Paul the Doctor, it's "white" market. In fact, if I get them from Paul the Doctor, and then sell them to someone else, I am selling them on the black market, even if I recieved them legally, so in this case, it isn't how the item was aquired, it's whether the _sale_, the *exchange* is legal. >you have. So what do you do? You find somebody whose stolen a vehicle and is >willing to sell it to you at a discount. > >> In other words, a Black market is when you trade either illegal >> goods illegally, or legal goods illegally. >Too strict and unrealistic a definition of black market. Not at all. It's quite wide open. It covers every non-legal transaction. >> If there are no illegal goods, and there is no regulations limiting >> trading, then the black market cannot exist. >Of course not since we've now legitimized theft and murder with your >definition. I didn't think of theft when I wrote the above, and I don't usually consider murder for hire markets as part of the black market, altho you have a point. I still maintain that as one moves closer to a completely free market, there is less and less of a black market, and to be the extrememe case of a free market, there would be the potential to trade in both human lives, and in stolen property. In a free market, the selling of stolen goods might not be a crime in and of itself, but the posession of those things could be, and the aquireing would be, as well, the _hiring_ of an assassin might be legal, as long as no killing took place. When it does, you hang the assassin on murder, and the hirer on conspiracy, aiding and abetting or whatever, and stick them in the same cell. -- "To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather na�ve, and certainly unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust" http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro at playboy.com From mix at anon.lcs.mit.edu Mon Nov 9 13:20:38 1998 From: mix at anon.lcs.mit.edu (lcs Mixmaster Remailer) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 05:20:38 +0800 Subject: Grounding (fwd) Message-ID: <19981109204003.20193.qmail@nym.alias.net> Jim Dolt writes: > The spark gap generates sparks and that builds up free electrons in the > space inside the sphere (whether it is gas filled or a vacuum is > irrelevant). As that charge builds up it will be all of one type, electrons. > Now the electrons repel each other and therefor move in a circular motion > with the spark gap as the center. They strike the surface of the sphere and > tunnel through to the outside surface where they reside. The amount of > charge at any one point is related to the curvature of the surface at that > point. Since a sphere is constant curvature the charge will be evenly > distributed. It will continue to build up so long as you supply power to the > spark gap. In an ideal world it will get bigger and bigger. In the real > world at some point insulation breaks down and normal current flow takes > place. Listen to this. Jim Dolt thinks that a spark gap inside a conductive sphere will cause charge to build up on the surface of the sphere! The dunderhead has forgotten about conservation of charge! Gauss' law says that the charge on the outer surface of a closed conductive sphere will be equal to the net charge inside the sphere. The spark gap can't change the net charge inside the sphere, it can just move charge around. Jim Dolt has conveniently forgotten about the net positive charge which will build up on the spark gap as it (supposedly) emits electrons. His Doltish notion that electrons will hit the inside of the sphere and "tunnel through" to the outside is totally confused. Suppose this happened. We've removed negative charges from the interior of the sphere and put them on the outside, where they would give the sphere a negative charge. Now, what is the net charge on the interior of the sphere? We started neutral and removed negatives, hence it's positive! Gauss' law would imply that the sphere must have a positive charge. But Jim Dolt tried to give it a negative charge from all those electrons that "tunneled through." The whole idea is ludicrous. No charge can spontaneously appear on the outside of an ideal closed conductive sphere. This would be a violation of the law of conservation of charge. By Gauss' law, the charge on the outside is equal to the net charge on the inside. If a sphere, just sitting there in empty space, suddenly develops a charge, then that means that the interior has manufactured charge out of nothing. It is impossible. The fundamental misconception that started this whole sad comedy of Doltish errors was Jim Dolt's belief that a Faraday cage has to be grounded in order to suppress electromagnetic radiation. This has led us to his revelation of his further misunderstandings of how charge behaves inside a conductive surface, not to mention his numerous errors about the mechanism by which a spark gap transmitter generates EM radiation. (Hint: it has nothing to do with a cloud of electrons spreading out from the spark gap!) The fact is, Jim Choate knows nothing about this topic, and the same is true for most subjects that he writes about. He loves the attention he gets, but if more people told him they knew how worthless his contributions are, he just might go bother someone else. From petro at playboy.com Mon Nov 9 13:56:41 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 05:56:41 +0800 Subject: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone(fwd) In-Reply-To: <199811081809.MAA05525@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: At 1:09 PM -0500 11/8/98, Jim Choate wrote: >Just face it. It isn't the threat of violence that pisses you off. It's that >you have social responsibilities to those around you. Taxes represent a >responsibility that you don't want and to hell with the consequences. No, it's that facists & socialists like yourself think we should be happy letting you decide what our social responsibilities are. I am perfectly willing to pay for a police force. A police force that arrests ALLEGED rapists, treats them like human beings until found guilty and then deals with them as the law indicates. I am NOT willing to pay for a police force that spends most of it's time (well, aside from eating doughnuts, drinking coffee and collecting bribes) chasing after teenagers with illegal chemicals. I am not willing to pay for a police force that extorts money from these same teenagers. I am not willing to pay money for a police force that thinks it needs to arrest people for "loitering", "Mob Action", when it's defined as more than 4 people standing together in a public place, and ESPECIALLY when EVERY TIME THEY ARREST SOMEONE, IT'S THROWN OUT OF COURT. I am willing to pay for the streets I use. I am not willing to pay the same fees to ride my bicycle (my current primary form of transportation) as you do to drive your 2 ton SUV. I am willing to pay for fire protection. I am not willing to pay for "universal health care", "welfare", and other such nonsense. In other words Jim, Fuck You. I, and I'd bet most people here, including Mr. May, are perfectly willing, and hell even eager to pay their share, to assume their social responcibility, they just get very, very angry at having to pay OTHER peoples social responcibility, and get very, very angry at having to pay for other shit (Senate Luncheons and Swimming Pools, the Militaries greatly inflated budget, all the waste that is todays federal government). They get even angrier when some putz like you comes along and tries to tell them what their social responcibility is. >> anyone else from telling it to fuck off? Such a state cannot govern >> those who do not wish to be governed, and so would not be a government. > >No state can govern those who don't wish to be governed, violence or no. Yes, but a state can kill those who don't wish to be governed. Can and does routinely. >[I've deleted a great gob of this since it's the same just rehashed in >different sentences.] But did you bother to read them this time? -- "To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather na�ve, and certainly unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust" http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro at playboy.com From vznuri at netcom.com Mon Nov 9 14:24:22 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 06:24:22 +0800 Subject: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199811090631.AAA09682@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199811092156.NAA13957@netcom13.netcom.com> country have let it get out of control for many decades. the idea that "someone else handles that stuff" has infected our consciousness. govt is something WE handle if we want a good one. if you want something done right, do it yourself. cpunks actually contribute to this problem with their nihilistic philosophy in general. the msg is that it is a waste of time to engage in group activity or political discourse or lobbying against the govt or organization or *whatever*... it's actually just a variant on the sheeple passivity. sheeple are like, "that's not my job". cpunks are like, "it is a waste of time and energy to do that job". what's the difference in the end?? the govt can be turned around very, very quickly if the public stops sucking down sixpacks and being hypnotized by meaningless dribble of sporting events and sitcoms that parade endlessly across their nanosecond attention span. maybe they might read even more than a comic book or pornographic magazine some day. the political class *intentionally* created this bread and circus atmosphere and are hiding behind the scenes as we speak. no dorothy do not look at the man behind the curtain. some new books are encouraging signs. "secrecy" by moynihan. there is a new book on the "third party" or something like that which proposes a new political party, and is selling very well on amazon. a new book by gerry spence lawyer talks about how the u.s. population is enslaved. the material is there for those who seek it. "when the student is ready the teacher will appear" From vznuri at netcom.com Mon Nov 9 14:33:25 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 06:33:25 +0800 Subject: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199811092156.NAA13957@netcom13.netcom.com> Message-ID: <199811092210.OAA15146@netcom13.netcom.com> mail fwder seemed to have messed up my msg line here is a repost: Jim: the govt is the way it is because the sheeple of this country have let it get out of control for many decades. the idea that "someone else handles that stuff" has infected our consciousness. govt is something WE handle if we want a good one. if you want something done right, do it yourself. cpunks actually contribute to this problem with their nihilistic philosophy in general. the msg is that it is a waste of time to engage in group activity or political discourse or lobbying against the govt or organization or *whatever*... it's actually just a variant on the sheeple passivity. sheeple are like, "that's not my job". cpunks are like, "it is a waste of time and energy to do that job". what's the difference in the end?? the govt can be turned around very, very quickly if the public stops sucking down sixpacks and being hypnotized by meaningless dribble of sporting events and sitcoms that parade endlessly across their nanosecond attention span. maybe they might read even more than a comic book or pornographic magazine some day. the political class *intentionally* created this bread and circus atmosphere and are hiding behind the scenes as we speak. no dorothy do not look at the man behind the curtain. some new books are encouraging signs. "secrecy" by moynihan. there is a new book on the "third party" or something like that which proposes a new political party, and is selling very well on amazon. a new book by gerry spence lawyer talks about how the u.s. population is enslaved. the material is there for those who seek it. "when the student is ready the teacher will appear" From vznuri at netcom.com Mon Nov 9 14:41:17 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 06:41:17 +0800 Subject: IP: NSA Threatens To "OUT" Republicans Over Hubbell Investigation Message-ID: <199811092205.OAA14797@netcom13.netcom.com> From: softwar at us.net (CharlesSmith) Subject: IP: NSA Threatens To "OUT" Republicans Over Hubbell Investigation Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 16:53:35 -0500 (EST) To: ignition-point at majordomo.pobox.com President Clinton has tried to avoid the subject of encryption exports to China while considering the release of Israeli crypto-spy Jonathan Pollard. Yet, encryption has played a large role in a foreign donation scandal with one of Clinton's closest associates, Webster Hubbell. After losing at the polls, Republican insiders are grumbling that they could not investigate Hubbell because the secret National Security Agency (NSA) is threatening to retaliate against hill members. Webster Hubbell took money from Lippo in 1994. Mr. Hubbell served time in Federal prison because of his Whitewater uncovered during Ken Starr's investigation. In 1993, Attorney General Janet Reno tasked Mr. Hubbell to encryption under the CLIPPER encryption chip project. Hubbell had access to highly classified materials on encryption chip design, including algorithms and software. Hubbell met often in the White House with now CIA Director George Tenet on the CLIPPER project. According to a Republican Capitol Hill staff member the "NSA does not want Hubbell investigated." The NSA has quietly threatened to "out any congressional member like (Congressman) Burton" who mentions Hubbell with encryption and China. The NSA threat is not a hollow one because the agency is certainly equipped with incriminating and/or embarrassing personal information gathered from years of phone intercepts. The NSA is the prime listening agency for national intelligence. The NSA is equipped with satellites, super computers, employs an estimated 25,000 and has a budget estimated to be one third of the $26 billion U.S. intelligence budget each year. John Huang, Ron Brown and Web Hubbell were deeply involved in classified NSA encryption systems. Specifically, John Huang, Lippo banker, DNC fundraiser and secret-cleared Commerce employee was briefed 37 times by the CIA on satellite encryption technology. According to the Commerce Department, Mr. Huang had no encryption materials. CLIPPER, according to secret Clinton documents, was to be implemented by law whether it by "mandatory" legislation or a "voluntary" system of taxpayer backed payments. The CLIPPER chip, according to a secret FBI document, also had an "exploitable" feature allowing the U.S. government to monitor communications. The NSA CLIPPER chip was intended to provide all the banking and financial security for the entire United States. It was to be required in every computer, fax and phone manufactured. According to more secret FBI documents, CLIPPER also had one big flaw. A single penetration of the master key list would compromise the entire system. Ron Brown insisted that the Commerce Department be one of the master CLIPPER key holders. President Clinton tasked Brown to the project in 1993 in a top-secret executive order. According to Nolinda Hill, Brown was aware that the encryption transfers to China were bordering on treason. NASA administrator Benita Cooper wrote in 1993 that "compromise of the NSA keys, such as in the Walker case, could compromise the entire EES (CLIPPER) system." Ms. Cooper at NASA knew convicted spy John Walker sent tons of materials on U.S. secret code systems to Russia for years during the Cold War. One breach of CLIPPER in a NASA computer could kill many and ruin the agency. In 1994 President Clinton began personally authorizing the export of advanced, nuclear hardened, encryption technology directly to communist China. The exports took place with presidential waivers that included the signature of Bill Clinton. They also took place using loopholes and bureaucratic gray areas of U.S. export law. The Clinton exports included such military items as advanced fiber optic communications; radiation hardened encrypted satellite control systems, encrypted radios and cellular phones, and encrypted navigation systems. According to the GAO, President Clinton even approved the sale of a fully operational, secure air traffic control system for the Chinese Air Force. The failure of the NSA CLIPPER project is already a blot on the secret agency based at Ft. Meade. The possibility that Chinese agents penetrated the NSA project would bring encryption to the forefront of public debate and shine intense light on an inept intelligence agency. The seemingly crazy Clinton policy shows our President to be crazy like a fox. Clinton did what Pollard and Walker could not do. President Clinton sold national security secrets for cash by writing his own legal waivers. Clinton's secret crypto policy served to line the pockets of politicians and greedy corporate executives with red money. The Clinton export policy has significantly upgraded the nuclear strategic and tactical firepower of the Chinese Army. Clinton, like Walker and Pollard, sold military code secrets for cash. America knows more about AREA-51 and UFOs than Ft. Meade and Webster Hubbell. Bill Clinton and his China crypto-tale will never be declassified for the American people. The Clinton scandal cover-up is backed by the NSA library of greatest intercepts against Republicans. ================================================================ Information on CLIPPER, Ron Brown and Vince Foster - http://www.softwar.net/clip.html ================================================================ 1 if by land, 2 if by sea. Paul Revere - encryption 1775 Charles R. Smith SOFTWAR http://www.softwar.net softwar at softwar.net Pcyphered SIGNATURE: 93513049E31CC7BD371748D388E8EED0A73B5D3D90AF3349F8A40E5DE61B4ABD 3CAC50EF4BFE2CF287C9843E6E4676B2D9D710EB301CB0E05B5F52B2D1448A04 90B9E2F4C67594DF =============================================================== SOFTWAR EMAIL NEWSLETTER 11/08/1998 *** to unsubscribe reply with "unsubscribe" as subject *** ================================================================ **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo at majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email at address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email at address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** From jim.burnes at ssds.com Mon Nov 9 15:05:47 1998 From: jim.burnes at ssds.com (Jim Burnes - Denver) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 07:05:47 +0800 Subject: black markets and color of law (was privacy fetish) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Nov 1998, Petro wrote: > > If you go back 10 years, and if "this country" was the soviet > union, a tomato purchased from the wrong person could get you in trouble. > > Entirely HOW the item was sold. > > This is true in this coutry. Licquor is legal if purchased thru the > approved store. > > Try selling the same thing out of the back of your truck. > > It is the product, or how the product is sold. > Why is this so hard to fathom. Black markets are simply markets that are not approved of by the reigning force monopoly. That could also be read as illegal, however, there are many goods in the united states that are only illegal by color of law, not in actual fact. Of course the fact that the regulations are only under color of law won't stop you from spending time in the cooler if you're caught. Most of these laws have to do with assigning law making to bureacrats. Are there any legal historians out there that have researched the nature of bureaucracies like the FDA, DEA and BATF and the lattitude that congress has given them in declaring various good illegal? How much power could congress hand over to a department before the law giving them the power could be declared unconstitutional? For example, a constitutional amendment was necessary to make alcohol illegal. Why was this necessary? Why was it not necessary to do the same for every other substance? And if not for every other substance, then for substances in general? "Congress shall have the power to declare intrastate trade in various products illegal." It would be very simple. It would be *the* prohibition act. It would cover everything from encryption, to newpapers, to alcohol and other drugs. What is the basis for bureaucratic power and has it ever been formally challenged in the supreme court? My guess is that this power has not been seriously challenged since Roosevelt stacked the Supreme Court and they decided that the the welfare clause was a broad grant of power to the federal government. If I remember correctly, a closely related decision by the Supreme stated that the commerce clause did not allow the banning of weapons from "school zones" because even though having weapons in school zones might effect commerce it would effect to such a small degree that the commerce clause didn't reach that far. The supreme court said they didn't know how far it did reach. It would be interesting to push the supreme to rule on the welfare clause. Could it reach far enough to ban nicotine? Could it reach far enough to grab the fatty mc'ds hamburger out of your hand? Could it tell you what sports are too dangerous? What about skiing? Car driving? Parachuting? Scuba diving? I'm beginning to look forward to Y2K. jim From mgering at ecosystems.net Mon Nov 9 15:22:56 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 07:22:56 +0800 Subject: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd) Message-ID: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B269@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com> Jim Choate wrote: > What happens when you have somebody on a fixed or small income. > Is your position that the paultry sum they can raise will be > taken seriously in regards compensating either the insurance > company or the fire dept.? What if they are on a fixed or small income and need food? Medical care? Etc. Should be make food retail and medical services both tax-supported government-mandated monopolies to accommodate those people who do not produce enough that they need a free lunch provided by someone more productive? It is the same argument used to continue our massive failure of a public educational system. There is no valid reason to intertwine "welfare" with the service, and there are many reasons not to -- e.g. it treats items as commodity services that should not be (esp. education), it creates false "rights" (e.g. right to education), it creates a coercive monopoly immune to market competition, and since people don't have to *evaluate* the service for spending decisions, they tend to *value* it less if at all. With welfare completely divorced from services, you can get a clear sight of the real cost (negative value) of the socialistic support system, and also of the productive output (positive value) of the service produced and those willing and able to consume it. > > willing to pay the local fire department a fee to stand > > ready to come and put out fires for me. > > You do it already, it's called taxes. No, he said *willing*. > No, without taxes funding a civic police department with If you claim that a service won't exist without public tax funding, then you are essentially claiming that people do not value that service enough to privately pay for it. So we should instead force them to pay for it? > connections to other police agencies around the country > you're hope of finding the perp is nil. And these connections won't exist if they are private entities? Perhaps they will have less chance if the agencies are bound to the same limitations as individuals in regards to privacy and liberty, but that is a good thing. > Oh, yeah. You and a couple of your beer buddies have like a > real hope in hell of matching the capabilities of a real > police homicide or rape investigation. Get fucking real. But that is not to say a private organization would not have matching capabilities. You cannot look at current PI's for the same reason as you cannot look at private education as what would exist in absence of the publicly mandated one. Lack of suitable competition is due to government-created monopolistic conditions. Matt From petro at playboy.com Mon Nov 9 15:58:40 1998 From: petro at playboy.com (Petro) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 07:58:40 +0800 Subject: Advertising Creepiness In-Reply-To: <199811091403.GAA27556@smtp.well.com> Message-ID: At 12:50 PM -0500 11/9/98, Tim May wrote: >I'm glad I'm not a lawyer. Why, so you don't have to shoot yourself? -- "To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather na�ve, and certainly unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust" http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro at playboy.com From bill.stewart at pobox.com Mon Nov 9 16:18:47 1998 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (bill.stewart at pobox.com) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 08:18:47 +0800 Subject: Semi-relevant spam - Re: legislation -- read In-Reply-To: <199811061627.JAA16550@token1.tokensystems.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981109092119.008aab80@idiom.com> It was SPAM, but it does have some relevance to the digital cash business, so I'll comment on it. The IP address really is tokensystems.com. They're in the business of selling tokens and/or tickets which customers can buy and use to pay for access to web sites, and which web site owners can redeem for cash with tokensystems. Tickets cost $1 (I think something they sell is 10 cents, though), and tokensystems keeps 40% of the take, giving the web site 60%. The target market is viewing artwork on the net, and they claim to have sold over 4 million tokens, presumably mostly the porn market (unlike Mark Twain, which probably never handled that much Digicash :-) The attraction for customers is that unlike plunking down $X on credit card for membership at a given web site that they might or might not think was worthwhile, creates lots of credit card transaction records, and which would definitely sell their info to spammers, they make one transaction and buy tokens which can be used at multiple sites, reducing the number of transactions. Tokensystems doesn't list a privacy policy (except that they offer a ticket-buying page that doesn't have porn ads for sites that prefer it). Don't know if this means they don't have a policy, or if their policy is to sell customer info to anyone they can. If they do offer privacy, they might want to post a privacy policy page (usng whatever ETrust / TrustE calls itself these days), and it might be an interesting market for Chaumian blinded tokens, since customers might like knowing their token uses aren't traceable back to their purchase records. They also don't say what they do for fraud prevention - looks like it's probably online clearing, which reduces their risk, and makes digicash relatively convenient to deploy. At 09:27 AM 11/6/98 -0700, bob at tokensystems.com wrote: >Dear Fellow Webmaster: > >The recent events and pending legislation that have rocked the web are >sure to place new restrictions on the business. We think this is a >very good solution. > >Check it out http://209.203.80.254/exe/tpromo1.cgi?7026131 > >Or call us if you have any questions. >Bob >818-559-3484 > > > > Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From mgering at ecosystems.net Mon Nov 9 16:30:48 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 08:30:48 +0800 Subject: NSA Threatens To "OUT" Republicans Over Hubbell Investigation Message-ID: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B26A@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com> Uh, what in the hell is "advanced, nuclear hardened, encryption technology" ? Matt From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Mon Nov 9 16:31:04 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 08:31:04 +0800 Subject: fuck copyright (Re: Advertising Creepiness) In-Reply-To: <199811090115.RAA23804@smtp.well.com> Message-ID: <199811092238.WAA06689@server.eternity.org> Declan McCullagh writes: > Whether you love or hate current copyright laws, it's a stretch to argue > that it's legal to republish (by forwarding) articles in full. Who cares if it's legal or not. Copyright only "works" to the extent of readers good-will (beggarware/shareware approach "please don't copy") and to the extent that thugs from your local force monopoly can enforce it at gun-point. I think the conclusion of crypto-anarchy is that copyright seems unlikely to survive as a schelling point for making money from publications. You can make money from information provision by charging extra for up-to-date news, or by charging so little that the cost from the original provider is so low that it's not worth anyones time to redistribute it, or by providing higher bandwidth connection to the net than the mirrors, or by making do with click throughs from the percentage of people who use the original rather than the cheaper mirror. Recursive auction market is a statement of reality if you make things too expensive to the reader. Overdoing the banners may be overdoing it already, viz the banner stripping attempts. The problem from wireds point of view is that they want their 1% click through rate to derive their funds. But that is their problem, and for them to develop strategies for obtaining funds in this landscape. To say it's "not legal to republish" is saying what? that you think thugs with guns should enforce bit flow controls? That wired plans to make use of these force monopoly services? I agree with Jim and Vladimir, I find it annoying to see URLs only, and the teasers (5 lines telling cut off just where it may or may not get interesting) are irritating too, as they tell you almost nothing. I'd rather see nothing or someone summarise or post the whole thing, or at least the interesting bits if it is highly relevant. Mostly it is just background clutter, most "news" isn't interesting at all. Adam From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Mon Nov 9 16:31:38 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 08:31:38 +0800 Subject: Guy, anti-copyright hacker (Re: Advertising Creepiness) In-Reply-To: <199811091519.KAA01473@panix2.panix.com> Message-ID: <199811092326.XAA06747@server.eternity.org> Information Security writes: > Declan writes: > > Willfully redistributing copyrighted material in violation of fair > > use principles is, depending on the value, also a federal > > crime. Redistributing a $1 article to thousands of people would be > > a felony. (Note I don't endorse this law, but it's useful to know > > what the law is.) > > I guess that qualifies as a request for more color. > > In the local Panix Usenet groups, I've reposted quite a few whole articles, > often from the IP list. > > Finally, a couple people made a stink, and officially complained to Panix. > > [snip panix owner backing down and not interfering with Guy's posts of > whole supposedly copyrighted material] Nice one Guy! The zen approach, it reminds me of a tactic to do with USENET cancel forgeries used by a recentish poster to this list who you made much a-do about being a terminator of. You are not my any chance a cleverly disguised nym of his? > So, I was allowed to continue posting whole articles. > > That's what the lawyers advised. > > Then, the Digital Copyright Massive Federal Interference Act... > > > Fair Use vs. Intellectual Property: The U.S. Congress > > passed the Digital Millenium Copyright Act, a bill designed to > > distinguish between fair use and protected intellectual property > > in cyberspace. > > > > > > I chose the IP list as the next-level test case... I'm curious ... how have you faired since the millenium copyright act with panix? Any results? Or is this still on-going? Keep up the good work! Adam From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Mon Nov 9 16:33:57 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 08:33:57 +0800 Subject: IP: Crunch Time for Y2K Suppliers (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199811090310.TAA18290@smtp.well.com> Message-ID: <199811092255.WAA06718@server.eternity.org> Declan McCullagh writes: > I'm not sure I like intellectual property laws in general -- like some > libertarians, I might prefer a contract-based system. But for now I support > civil laws to punish copyright infringements, and it seems to me it's > difficult to argue that redistributing entire articles isn't one. Ah good -- I thought you'd taken leave of your cypherpunkly senses for a moment there! (re my `fuck copyright' post). > Besides, and more importantly, it's also rude. That it might be, if it is a social says that it is polite to honor peoples requests about bit flow. But hey, if more and more people find ignoring the supposed social convention convenient, then perhaps this social convention isn't as widely adhered to as people making money off subsidized copyright enforcement thugs might like to claim it is. ie. IMO social conventions on copyright are moving, and quite fast. And copyright has a hidden cost which we are all paying for. Adam From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Mon Nov 9 16:38:14 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 08:38:14 +0800 Subject: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force In-Reply-To: <199811090528.VAA01234@netcom13.netcom.com> Message-ID: <199811092311.XAA06732@server.eternity.org> Vladimir writes: > what we really need is a government which can personalize its > services, and people pay for what they use. yes, agree. In other words we need freedom for business to compete in provision of all services currently monopolised by government. > more and more this is becoming technically feasible. it will bring > the potential of capitalistic competition and free markets to > govt. how? well services that no one uses will tend to whither, and > the healthy ones will receive greater budgets. But also you need multiple providers of services, otherwise your freedom of choice is limited. If you can opt out of literally any goverment service, I suspect government revenues would nearly disappear. Everything they "supply" can be supplied more cheaply by business. So what government remained would have to compete on a fair basis with private industry. > the big quandary is people who can't pay for what they use > like social security. ultimately the question is how much > money the state has the authority to collect for this kind of > thing, and the political answer has varied every year, but it > has gone up every year in the 20th century generally. I think the state should have no authority to collect anything. Charity at the point of a gun is not charity. The state is an extremely inefficient distributor of charitable funds anyway. > the big problem imho is fraud/waste/corruption in govt though. I > think if a lot of it were eliminated we would be flabbergasted at > how little a personal contribution it takes to take care of people > who need it. bureaucracies are the most expensive thing on the > planet. here's hoping that cyberspace will cut through the > *ultimate* middleman: govt. Amen to that. Adam From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Mon Nov 9 16:38:29 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 08:38:29 +0800 Subject: Digicash bankruptcy In-Reply-To: <9811091614.AA00393@ch1d524iwk> Message-ID: <199811092333.XAA06759@server.eternity.org> Andrew Loewenstern writes: > Phill writes: > > The fact that Chaum didn't have the monopoly he appeared to > > imagine is probably why nobody was queuing up to pay his > > demands. > > Name some other deployable payer anonymous electronic payment > systems that are in competetion with DigiCash. Stefan Brands patents? Not sure if digicash would claim these infringe the blind sig patents. Ian Goldberg's HINDE/money changer with or without blinding -- in general notion that you can obtain anonymity by anonymous exchange from a trusted money changer, or with blinding from an untrusted money changer. As with remailers you can increase the strength of anonymity by chaining through multiple money changers. Or perhaps Doug Barne's proposal for a identity agnositic bank and blinding clients distributed from jurisdictions where doesn't have patents? (The client is the software which does the blinding). Pseudonymous approach to anonymity -- ecash accounts without an TrueName indentity bound to them. Others? (Ryan you suggested 5 but didn't list them explicitly?) Adam From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Mon Nov 9 16:40:06 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 08:40:06 +0800 Subject: Advertising Creepiness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199811092247.WAA06698@server.eternity.org> Tim May writes: > I expect banner ads to die out soon enough. The technology is just too > amenable to filters. > > Adbusters for television have been talked about for years, but I know of no > reliable adbusters...and an adbuster for t.v. doesn't save too much (since > the 2-minute or whatever gap is still there). Taping and then > fast-forwarding through ads is probably more convenient than an adbuster in > realtime. I think the idea of fast-forward for a TV would be a nice product. Say that you had a high capacity video CD hooked up to TV. Record it all in a rolling backup of the weeks TV. Then you can skip around, forward over junk (ads, unintersting patches). Probably you could combine with VCR+ or programme list to prune down the bandwidth/capacity requirements by indicating disinterest and interest, topic preferences etc. Possibly a setup like this is getting closer to feasible with storage improvements. > But for the Web, the arms race between adbusters and ad providers...seems > likely to be lost for the ad makers. > > Once some mainstream adbusters appear. > > I wonder if advertisers will try to cite some right to enjoin ad > busters from busting their ads? (Far-fetched, perhaps. But imagine > if a particular version of this filtering occurrred...imagine the > howls if Microsoft Explorer automatically filtered out the ads of > companies it disliked or was competing against? Legal? Restraint of > trade?) A new feature for some enterprising cyberspace business to provide via eternity servers perhaps -- mirrors of subscriber services, and banner stripping. Free, but account based subscriber services are annoying, eg microsoft recently stuck about 5 mins worth of forms to fill in to get at support for some thing you've already paid for, forcing you to give them free user survey material. I fill it in as Billzebub billg at microsoft.com etc., plus random meaningless answers so that they get dud survery info, and so that his secretary gets to filter the crufty ads. Adam From mmotyka at lsil.com Mon Nov 9 16:41:36 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 08:41:36 +0800 Subject: Grounding (last slice of spam?) Message-ID: <364786A4.3CC1@lsil.com> Mixmaster-san, Sorry for prolonging the agony - I was hoping, in vain, for an admission of guilt. > > The fundamental misconception that started this whole sad comedy > of Doltish errors was Jim Dolt's belief that a Faraday cage has > to be grounded in order to suppress electromagnetic radiation. > Diagnosis: Lion taming is contraindicated, a career of public service is recommended. And this... > Now the electrons repel each other and therefor move in a > circular motion with the spark gap as the center. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ takes me on a trip with Mr. Peabody and Sherman to the place where the Huskies go... Was my question about cycling the keys for a block cipher a *useless* one or did the bit about horses offend? Horses are OK, sort of. In their own way. On someone else's nickel. Mike Snowcone, anyone? From blancw at cnw.com Mon Nov 9 16:42:05 1998 From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 08:42:05 +0800 Subject: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd) In-Reply-To: <000b01be0c0f$19720c60$9d2580d0@ibm> Message-ID: <000301be0c3f$74141a20$618195cf@blanc> You know, guys, it doesn't matter what sort of tax system is set up, if it doesn't begin with one very fundamentally, essential, crucial, important point: respect for the sovereignty of the individual. This means respect for their individual agreement, their informed consent, to any arrangement to be taken up by them. If, at any point in time - either before, during, or after a plan for obtaining moneys from citizen-units is instigated - it loses sight of the purpose for setting up the whole thing, then it's worthless anyway. If it doesn't support the highest ideal of humanity - unit by unit, individual by individual, human beings qua their separate existence - then it is not serving their purposes, but only the purpose of those who identify themselves as the State: employees of the State, leaders of the State, keepers of the State, goalies of the State, wards of the State, etc. If "members" are not extended the courtesy due to strangers, where one would normally inquire - "would you like to join us?" or "would you like to combine efforts with us in this endeavor to do ourselves a good" or "would you agree to support this organization in this manner?"; if instead their existence is taken for granted and their efforts treated as minor elements in the larger scheme of more important things, if their separate opinions are rolled up into a combined average, then what does it matter the benefits? What does it matter, the details? If there is no basic comprehension of respect, no display of respect, no provision in their Codes (legal codes, tax codes, etc.) for the methods of respectfulness - then where is the goodness in the rest of it, once you've lost your place in your hierarchy of values? People will then be operating in an mindless atmosphere of unconsciousness, an atmosphere lacking an appreciation for oneself as a unique creature, self-possessed and having their own reasons and purpose for living. Gradually they will lose the consciousness of themselves as being something other than a "member" of a collective, an identity not dependent upon recognition from the State, upon sanction from The Crowd for permission to move based on the independent exercise of judgement- be it to move about freely, or consume the chemicals of the Universe, or think unofficial thoughts, whatever. They could become like the "bird in a guilded cage" - having all the benefits of personal comfort, but without the ability or permission to pursue goals beyond what is tolerated within the boundaries of the Group Consciousness (can you say B-o-r-g), so that they may have more and more of the basic physical requirements, but less and less of themselves - of their own authority, of their own self-esteem, an esteem not pre-measured or pre-determined by the PC police, that constant reference in the back of their mind reminding them of the limits of their approved parameters. Nothing - no plan, no organization, no purpose, no method, no clever, cheaper, faster, more practical scheme - is worth supporting, if it degrades the concept, the idea, the reality, of respect for the boundaries of our separate existence. If it denies the recognition of self-ownership, if it ignores it, if it fails to account for it in word or deal with it in action, then eventually it will transgress these boundaries with impunity and an air of overbearing self-righteousness, and you will lose what is most important of all. You could "gain the world" (of tax-extorted benefits), but lose your Self. (of course some people don't propose to have one, and so wouldn't miss it or complain over its absence) .. Blanc From blancw at cnw.com Mon Nov 9 17:17:36 1998 From: blancw at cnw.com (Blanc) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 09:17:36 +0800 Subject: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199811092210.OAA15146@netcom13.netcom.com> Message-ID: <000401be0c44$50a73f40$618195cf@blanc> >From Vlad Ze Prophet: :sheeple are like, "that's : not my job". cpunks are like, "it is a waste of time and energy : to do that job". what's the difference in the end?? : : the govt can be turned around very, very quickly if the public : stops sucking down sixpacks and being hypnotized by meaningless : dribble of sporting events and sitcoms that parade endlessly : across their nanosecond attention span. [. . .] ........................................................ Sheeple are like, "that's not my job". and cpunks are like, "YOU're not my job". And to the govmt-as-is cpunks are like, "get off my space and out of my face". And if I, non-exemplary Citizen of the Galaxy, choose to sit around guzzling down sixpacks, listening to the dribble of sporting events and sitcoms (can you see it!), and you personally don't like it, I would say " I'M like, so not your job". I would like to know what exactly you've done for me lately, Vladimeer, for to turn the government around. .. Blanc - like, sitting around hypnotized, urp, waiting for visionary inspiration. From aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk Mon Nov 9 17:48:13 1998 From: aba at dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 09:48:13 +0800 Subject: charity at the point of a gun (Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone)(fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199811100027.AAA07402@server.eternity.org> Christopher Petro writes: > In other words Jim, Fuck You. I, and I'd bet most people here, > including Mr. May, are perfectly willing, and hell even eager to pay their > share, to assume their social responcibility, they just get very, very > angry at having to pay OTHER peoples social responcibility, and get very, > very angry at having to pay for other shit (Senate Luncheons and Swimming > Pools, the Militaries greatly inflated budget, all the waste that is todays > federal government). What is annoying is "charity" (social security) at the point of a gun. Our "conscience" is being decided by government which is acting as a broker for those lobby for their "need" and for your assets to be stolen and redistributed to them. What people aren't willing to pay for shouldn't happen. Period. If that means people starve well those complaining loudest had better dig deeper into their pockets. Anything else is socialism tending to facism, as Hayek argues in The Road to Serfdom. > >No state can govern those who don't wish to be governed, violence or no. > > Yes, but a state can kill those who don't wish to be governed. Can > and does routinely. That's what's so interesting about cyberspace, once the payment systems get there -- government thugs can't beat up, murder, or incarcerate anonymous nyms. _Then_ Jim's "No state can govern those who don't wish to be governed" starts to become true. Adam From mgering at ecosystems.net Mon Nov 9 17:58:20 1998 From: mgering at ecosystems.net (Matthew James Gering) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 09:58:20 +0800 Subject: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd) Message-ID: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B275@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com> Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote: > cpunks actually contribute to this problem with their nihilistic > philosophy in general. the msg is that it is a waste of time > to engage in group activity or political discourse or lobbying > against the govt or organization or *whatever*... it's actually > just a variant on the sheeple passivity. "If you think of yourselves as helpless and ineffectual, it is certain that you will create a despotic government to be your master. The wise despot, therefore, maintains among his subjects a popular sense that they are helpless and ineffectual." --Frank Herbert, The Dosadi Experiment I don't think many cpunks (and other freedom loving people) are necessarily nihilistic so much as they have come to the conclusion that to ignore and/or subvert government has higher probability of success than trying to reform it -- much to the demise of the Libertarian Party. The whole cryptography and geodesic communications being the bane of the nation-state theme tends to support this idea. Matt From mmotyka at lsil.com Mon Nov 9 18:14:54 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:14:54 +0800 Subject: IP: NSA Threatens To "OUT" Republicans Over Hubbell Investigation Message-ID: <3647983F.6EBE@lsil.com> OOH: Oh, I suppose so. Part of the Yet Another Conspiracy Conspiracy Theory. OTOH: 1) The people who run NSA are powerful people in their own right. I would be surprised if they could be easily made into a simple political tool 2) If there is ONE country in the world that the US would like to set up for another "Crypto-AG", another "Softwar"( ok early computer spy story I read long ago ), which country might that be? And why might NSA not want media attention? Could it be that someone spoke before thinking? Ready, fire, aim. That's why I don't go into the woods during deer season. It would be damn nifty to be able to snoop ( and override ) the target country's police and military communications networks and air traffic systems wouldn't it? Now they're wise before we've got'em mainlining our trash. Mike Newt Gingrich - There are some good people in the Republican party. Newt is not one of them. Good riddance to bad rubbish. ******** The seemingly crazy Clinton policy shows our President to be crazy like a fox. Clinton did what Pollard and Walker could not do. President Clinton sold national security secrets for cash by writing his own legal waivers. Clinton's secret crypto policy served to line the pockets of politicians and greedy corporate executives with red money. The Clinton export policy has significantly upgraded the nuclear strategic and tactical firepower of the Chinese Army. Clinton, like Walker and Pollard, sold military code secrets for cash. America knows more about AREA-51 and UFOs than Ft. Meade and Webster Hubbell. Bill Clinton and his China crypto-tale will never be declassified for the American people. The Clinton scandal cover-up is backed by the NSA library of greatest intercepts against Republicans. ********* From vznuri at netcom.com Mon Nov 9 18:19:25 1998 From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:19:25 +0800 Subject: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force In-Reply-To: <199811092311.XAA06732@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: <199811100157.RAA05844@netcom13.netcom.com> the distinction between govt and business is sometimes an arbitrary one. for example govt agencies typically contract with private companies to perform govt services. a massive example of this is the defense industry. what I would tend to propose is a system where this is augmented and finetuned to the point the govt become a very efficient sorting mechanism for channeling money to businesses that are the most efficient. a very interesting combination of the ideas of free market and govt service. AB, I disagree that people would opt out of virtually all govt services. bzzzzzzzt. think of things like trash collection etc. I do believe the vast majority of things the govt does would tend to stay there even if people had a choice. the big libertarian question is, as you raise it: should people have to pay for things they don't want. well consider things like roads, police or fire protection, or the court system. what if you don't pay, but then dial 911 anyway? or you dial 911 and they ask for your credit card first? it really does seem to me like there is a legitimate role for a certain amount of money to be collected for govt service. imho it is far, far less than whatis being collected today. if taxes were 5-10% people wouldn't give as much a damn about the govt and how it worked. it's because taxes are so high that people are screeching more. screeching but not acting, as usual. libertarians tend to be awfully realistic some times. who pays for roads when everyone uses them? but I'm definitely into the basic libertarian ideas. From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Mon Nov 9 18:24:31 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:24:31 +0800 Subject: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd) Message-ID: <199811100205.UAA14919@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:27:14 -0500 > From: Petro > Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone > (fwd) > No, it's that facists & socialists like yourself think we should be > happy letting you decide what our social responsibilities are. Actualy, no. I'm perfectly happy to let you run around paying no taxes on your income. The part you're not going to like is that I'm also not going to let you reap one iota of benefit from those systems that are built and developed by those of us who do pay taxes without a cost. And the cost will be more than what the necessary taxes would have been. Hell, a free-market capitalist shouldn't begrudge a tidy profit anyone under any situation. > I am perfectly willing to pay for a police force. A police force > that arrests ALLEGED rapists, treats them like human beings until found > guilty and then deals with them as the law indicates. I am NOT willing to > pay for a police force that spends most of it's time (well, aside from > eating doughnuts, drinking coffee and collecting bribes) chasing after > teenagers with illegal chemicals. I am not willing to pay for a police > force that extorts money from these same teenagers. I am not willing to pay > money for a police force that thinks it needs to arrest people for > "loitering", "Mob Action", when it's defined as more than 4 people standing > together in a public place, and ESPECIALLY when EVERY TIME THEY ARREST > SOMEONE, IT'S THROWN OUT OF COURT. Neither am I, unfortunately paying taxes or not won't resolve those sorts of issues. What is required is public over-watch groups (as was recently implimented in Austin, pisses the cops off big time) and a change in the way we run our prisons. As to the way people are currently treated prior to being found guilty at a trial is an abuse of power on the part of those parties involved and clearly cruel and unusual punishment for an innocent man. Of course the *REAL* problem isn't the police. It's the people who make the laws that the police are sworn to uphold and the judges with a social agenda (that is not relevant to their job however much they may squeel like pigs). That process *is* most certainly an ideal place to inject consideration and respect for civil liberties and the purvue of government institutions. > I am willing to pay for the streets I use. I am not willing to pay > the same fees to ride my bicycle (my current primary form of > transportation) as you do to drive your 2 ton SUV. And you probably don't now (Does a Bronco II weigh 2 tons?). In actuality you don't pay the gas taxes, the vehicle registration, license fees, inspection, requisite insurance, etc. for your bicycle. I bet you don't even have to license your bike to ride it on the city streets. > I am willing to pay for fire protection. I am not willing to pay > for "universal health care", "welfare", and other such nonsense. The Constitution happens to mention that the federal government is detailed with taking care of the general welfare. If you don't like that sort of stuff then get a Constitutional amendment passed. > In other words Jim, Fuck You. I, and I'd bet most people here, > including Mr. May, are perfectly willing, and hell even eager to pay their > share, to assume their social responcibility, they just get very, very > angry at having to pay OTHER peoples social responcibility, and get very, Unfortunately, that is what social responsibility is - giving with in personal gain. That ultimately is what drives the bee up your butt. > very angry at having to pay for other shit (Senate Luncheons and Swimming > Pools, the Militaries greatly inflated budget, all the waste that is todays > federal government). Agreed. Throwing the Constitution away won't fix that and going to a free-market monopolistic no-social-responsibility-at-all system such as anarcho-capitalism is sure won't do it. > Yes, but a state can kill those who don't wish to be governed. Can > and does routinely. Oh what hyperbole. You make it sound like the Nazi's have invaded. They haven't. Yes, there are misguided people out there. Yes, there are just plain old corrupt people out there. That won't change irrespective of the political system (or lack of one). They don't just go out and pick people off the street and shoot them you're over-reacting and succumbing to a paranoid delusion of persecution. Unless you kill somebody or move a few tons of coke your individual chances of being killed by the state is less than being struck by lightening. > But did you bother to read them this time? Actualy I read it twice before I even decide if I'm going to reply. ____________________________________________________________________ Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want the right answers. Scully (X-Files) The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Mon Nov 9 18:26:22 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:26:22 +0800 Subject: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd) Message-ID: <199811100210.UAA15017@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > From: Matthew James Gering > Subject: RE: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd) > Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 17:25:45 -0800 > I don't think many cpunks (and other freedom loving people) are necessarily > nihilistic so much as they have come to the conclusion that to ignore and/or > subvert government has higher probability of success than trying to reform > it -- much to the demise of the Libertarian Party. There is certainly little historical evidence to support such a thesis. > The whole cryptography > and geodesic communications being the bane of the nation-state theme tends > to support this idea. Cryptography is the bane of anyone who wants to listen in, it's not just nation-states that get hit with it. As to geodesic communications, it's been around a lot longer than the Internet and nation states are still here. ____________________________________________________________________ Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want the right answers. Scully (X-Files) The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From hrook at exchange.microsoft.com Mon Nov 9 18:29:32 1998 From: hrook at exchange.microsoft.com (Harvey Rook (Exchange)) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:29:32 +0800 Subject: NSA Threatens To "OUT" Republicans Over Hubbell Investigation Message-ID: <2FBF98FC7852CF11912A0000000000010D19AD5F@DINO> An advanced, nuclear hardened encryption device, is an encryption device that will still work after a nuke has gone off in the vicinity. Nuclear bombs emit EMP's which destroy sensitive electronics. Harv. > -----Original Message----- > Uh, what in the hell is "advanced, nuclear hardened, > encryption technology" > ? > > Matt > From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Mon Nov 9 18:39:41 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:39:41 +0800 Subject: charity at the point of a gun (Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone) (fwd) Message-ID: <199811100216.UAA15081@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 00:27:50 GMT > From: Adam Back > Subject: charity at the point of a gun (Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone) > (fwd) > What people aren't willing to pay for shouldn't happen. Period. If > that means people starve well those complaining loudest had better > dig deeper into their pockets. This attitude is exactly why such system as anarchy won't ever work. > _Then_ Jim's "No state can govern those > who don't wish to be governed" starts to become true. It's true as much now as it was at the height of the American or French Revolution. ____________________________________________________________________ Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want the right answers. Scully (X-Files) The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Mon Nov 9 18:39:43 1998 From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:39:43 +0800 Subject: Grounding (last slice of spam?) (fwd) Message-ID: <199811100220.UAA15144@einstein.ssz.com> Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 16:19:48 -0800 > From: Michael Motyka > Subject: Re: Grounding (last slice of spam?) > Sorry for prolonging the agony - I was hoping, in vain, for an admission > of guilt. Ok, your guilty. > > Now the electrons repel each other and therefor move in a > > circular motion with the spark gap as the center. > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > takes me on a trip with Mr. Peabody and Sherman to the place where the > Huskies go... Perhaps, but it doesn't change the fact that a cloud of like-charged particles expand in a cloud of equi-radius (which when looked at in side view is circular). ____________________________________________________________________ Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want the right answers. Scully (X-Files) The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody at lo14.wroc.pl Mon Nov 9 18:42:01 1998 From: nobody at lo14.wroc.pl (Anonymous lo14) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:42:01 +0800 Subject: govt server architecture Message-ID: <6c32470712900957c71c30cf0bd3cfe1@anonymous> Greetings and salutations, Can anyone share experience with U.S. government server hardware, used for medium-load computing applications (not supercomputers)? I'm looking for information on brand names, flops, etc. and where to find more. From mmotyka at lsil.com Mon Nov 9 18:44:40 1998 From: mmotyka at lsil.com (Michael Motyka) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:44:40 +0800 Subject: Advanced Nuclear-Hardened Encryption Technology Message-ID: <3647A470.17C7@lsil.com> > Uh, what in the hell is "advanced, nuclear hardened, encryption > technology"? advanced(1) - we fucked up so we have to classify it so nobody but us boobs will know what boobs we are advanced(2) - last year's obsolete model in a new suit to fit this year's corruption conspiracy advanced(3) - we wish we had this but we're going to hint tha